I know some of you folks have been eagerly awaiting the 5x1 HDMI switch from Monoprice. I had a chance to test a pre-production version and it has performed very nicely. My review follows. I hope you find it useful.

Review of Monoprice 5x1 Enhanced HDMI switch with Equalizer
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&style=

Executive Summary
=================
This is an excellent HDMI switcher which provides tremendous value and excellent performance.
The 5x1 switcher passed testing at 720p/hdcp, 1080i/hdcp, 1080p/60/hdcp using 50ft 24AWG HDMI
cables without using any additional repeaters. In addition the 5x1 switch worked well as a
mixed HDMI/DVI switcher and had no problems with audio over HDMI.

Switching times were quite good, in the range of 1-2 seconds for non-HDCP devices and 3-5 seconds
for HDCP devices. HDCP switch times include time to renegotiate encryption and varies between
different devices.

Dimensions(WxDxH): 7.1"x3"x1"
Power Usage: 2 Watts (full load, 5 ports active) (@ $0.21/kilowatt-hr $0.31/month)
Remote Control: discrete input select 1-5, input up/down (uses 2xAAA batteries)

WARNING: Please do not take the results of this review as a guarantee the switch will work with all
equipment and cables equally. Testing represents best effort to perform a range of tests on a diverse
set of equipment and cable lengths but is not broad enough to be considered exhaustive. During testing
it was found that some TMDS transmitters are more sensitive than others. In addition if different cables
from those tested are used, results can vary. It was also discovered some HDMI->DVI adapters can pass
1080p successfully while others can not. The same would apply to other types of adapters.


Full Review
===========

Initial impressions
-------------------
Unit was very compact for a 5x1 switcher. The width is just enough to comfortably fit 6 (5x1)
HDMI ports and about 1" high (includes rubber feet) Included AC adapter was the smallest "wall wart"
ever seen by this reviewer. Build quality was excellent overall. Unit felt very solid. Given
this was pre-production model, there were some slight cosmetic issues but these should be cleaned
up by production time.

Remote control was of good quality and included real vs membrane buttons. Functions include
discrete input 1-5 select and input up/down. Infrared functionality was easily integrated into
universal programming remote either through learning or device upgrades. For JP1 capable remotes,
I've provided a device upgrade file here (for other remotes, decoded IR/protocol provided in appendix):

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2762

Switch has an "autoscan" feature which automatically selects an active input. In practice this
works nice when you are only using 2 devices. For 5 devices it may be simpler to have this feature
disabled (which is not currently an option)


Functional testing summary
--------------------------
Testing was done on this unit at 1080p/60 (148.5MHz) both with and without HDCP. Extensive testing
was also done at 720p/1080i with/without HDCP with a variety of equipment. Test display was the
Sharp LC-45GX6U 1920x1080 display. 1080p testing was done by connecting 5x1 switch directly to the
Sharp display panel DVI port. 720p/1080i testing was done through the HDMI port of the Sharp AVC
(external video processor)

Source devices tested include:
Panasonic S77 upconverting DVD player HDMI (720p/hdcp)
Samsung HD841 upconverting DVD player DVI (1080i/hdcp)
PNY Verto 6600GT PC grapics card DVI (1080i)
MyHD MDP-130 PC HDTV tuner card DVI (1080i)
Radio Shack Accurian ATSC HDTV tuner HDMI (1080i)
Motorola DCT-5100 HD cable set top box DVI (1080i)

PNY Verto 6600GT PC grapics card DVI (1080p/60)
Sharp AVC TU-GD10U-T DVI (1080p/60/hdcp)

Display device:
Sharp LC-45GX6U HDMI (720p/1080i)
Sharp LC-45GX6U DVI (1080p/60/hdcp 1080p/60)

Cables tested
[all Monoprice cables, in the interest of reducing the test matrix some tests were skipped as indicated]
[Monoprice HDMI->DVI adapters were used where appropriate]
28AWG HDMI Cables - 3ft, 6ft, 10ft, 15ft
24AWG HDMI Cables - 3ft, 6ft, 10ft, 15ft, 25ft, 33ft, 50ft
22AWG HDMI Cables - 50ft

Sparkles were not present for any of the test configurations.

1080p testing
-------------
In particular 1080p/60/hdcp (148.5MHz) was sent from Sharp AVC to Sharp display panel through the 5x1
switcher and 50ft 24AWG HDMI cable. This configuration was observed for 2+ hours with no sparkles while
viewing both black picture and using internal QAM tuner to view 1080i content converted to 1080p/hdcp by
Sharp AVC. Testing was repeated at 1080p/60 (no HDCP) using PNY Verto 6600GT viewing WMV-HD 1080p clips
for 15 minutes. No sparkles were observed.

Switch times were excellent in this configuration, often 1 second or less.

720p/1080i testing
------------------
Various devices were tested at 720p/1080i with and without HDCP. No sparkles were observed for any of
the configurations. See raw testing data for extended testing results.

Initial basic test scenario:
1) Panasonic S77 HDMI upconverting DVD player (uses HDMI/HDCP)
connected to input 1 of HDMI switcher using Panasonic suppied 6ft HDMI cable, configured for 720p
source content: The Incredibles
2) Samsung HD841 DVI upconverting DVD player (used DVI/HDCP)
connected to input 2 of HDMI switcher using Monoprice 28AWG 6ft DVI->HDMI cable, configured for 1080i
source content: Star Wars Ep3: Revenge of the Sith

HDMI out was connected to Sharp LC-45GX6U "AVC" (Sharp's external video processing box) using
Radio Shack Gold Series 6ft HDMI->HDMI cable.

No picture degradation at all through the switcher. No sparkles, no strange lines, etc.
Testing was purposely done with one source at 720p and the other at 1080i to force renegotiations.

Switch time was pretty fast for HDMI switcher with HDCP sources. 3-5 seconds (including
HDMI/HDCP renegotiation time between source and display)

Tested turning off the Sharp TV while input 1 was selected and also while input 2 was selected.
Upon turning the TV back on, everything negotiated properly and a picture showed up within 4-5 seconds.

Tested turning off Panasonic S77 while playing, then turning back on, works ok. HDMI/HDCP
renegotiates and picture shows in up 4-5 seconds.

Tested turning off Samsung HD841 while playing, then turning back on, works ok. DVI/HDCP
renegotiates and picture shows in up 4-5 seconds.

Basically there were no sparkles and switch worked as expected.


Extended testing data
---------------------
Test cables (FC=FerriteCore N=Netjacket):
a) 02029 HDMI->DVI F-M converter
b) 02404 DVI->HDMI M-M 28AWG FC 6ft

1) 02526 HDMI M-M 28AWG FC 3ft
2) 02412 HDMI M-M 28AWG FC 6ft
3) 02504 HDMI M-M 28AWG FC 10ft
4) 02529 HDMI M-M 28AWG FC 15ft

5) 02283 HDMI M-M 24AWG FC/N 3ft
6) 02219 HDMI M-M 24AWG FC/N 6ft
7) 02281 HDMI M-M 24AWG FC/N 10ft
8) 02282 HDMI M-M 24AWG FC/N 15ft

9) 02109 HDMI M-M 24AWG 25ft
10) 02742 HDMI M-M 24AWG 33ft (actual 35ft)
11) 02110 HDMI M-M 24AWG FC 50ft

12) 02678 HDMI M-M 22AWG 50ft

====

Scenario 1
Input1 - Sharp AVC 1080p/HDCP == DVI->HDMI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input2 - PNY Verto 6600GT 1080p == DVI->HDMI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher

Output - Monoprice HDMI cable == HDMI->DVI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Sharp LC-45GX6U Panel

Scenario 2
Input1 - Panasonic S77 DVD HDMI/HDCP 720p == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Panasonic bundled) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input2 - Samsung HD841 DVD DVI/HDCP 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input3 - PNY Verto 6600GT DVI 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input4 - MyHD MDP-130 DVI 1080i == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input5a- RS Accurian HDTV tuner HDMI/HDCP 1080i == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Radio Shack 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input5b- Motorola DCT-5100 DVI/HDCP 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher

Output - Monoprice HDMI cable == Sharp LC-45GX6U AVC HDMI Input

====

Scenario *1*
Input1 - Sharp AVC 1080p/HDCP == DVI->HDMI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input2 - PNY Verto 6600GT 1080p == DVI->HDMI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher

Output - Monoprice HDMI cable == HDMI->DVI 28AWG 6ft (b) == Sharp LC-45GX6U Panel

Input1 selected
1) 3ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
2) 6ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
3) 10ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

5) 3ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
6) 6ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
7) 10ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual picture inspection

Input2 selected
1) 3ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
2) 6ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
3) 10ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

5) 3ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
6) 6ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
7) 10ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual picture inspection

====

Scenario *2*
Input1 - Panasonic S77 DVD HDMI/HDCP 720p == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Panasonic bundled) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input2 - Samsung HD841 DVD DVI/HDCP 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input3 - PNY Verto 6600GT DVI 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input4 - MyHD MDP-130 DVI 1080i == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input5a- RS Accurian HDTV tuner HDMI/HDCP 1080i == HDMI->HDMI cable 6ft (Radio Shack 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher
Input5b- Motorola DCT-5100 DVI/HDCP 1080i == DVI->HDMI cable 6ft (Monoprice 28AWG) == Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher

Output - Monoprice HDMI cable == Sharp LC-45GX6U AVC HDMI Input


Input1 Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG (see Caveat #1)
10) 35ft 24AWG (see Caveat #1)
11) 50ft 24AWG (see Caveat #1)

12) 50ft 22AWG (see Caveat #1)


Input2 Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection


Input3 Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #2)
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #2)

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #2)


Input4 Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection (see Caveat #3)


Input5a Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection


Input5b Selected
4) 15ft 28AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

8) 15ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

9) 25ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
10) 35ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection
11) 50ft 24AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection

12) 50ft 22AWG no sparkle, passed visual inspection



Caveats:
--------
1) when testing Panasonic S77 DVD player, I found that the player performs a form of cable length
detection during the startup procedure. When used with 5x1 switch and HDMI output cable lengths
25ft and longer, the DVD player displays a "U 70-2" error. According to the manual this error
is for HDMI cable too long. I tested a 50ft 24AWG cable directly from Panasonic S77 DVD player
to Sharp AVC HDMI port and this error did not occur. It appears using the 5x1 switch introduces
enough delay that the S77 DVD player thinks the cable is too long. This should not be an issue
if you intend to use output cable lengths up to 15ft, which did not exhibit this behavior. This
behavior could also be related to the Sharp AVC HDMI port, so you may not see this issue at all
if you use a different display.

2) when testing PNY Verto 6600GT PC graphics card and Sharp AVC HDMI port, there were no sparkles
or issues at any resolution. However for cable lengths 35ft-50ft the observed behavior was the
BIOS boot screen would display with no issues, but once the nVidia Windows drivers loaded, the
screen turned blank. Using a remote desktop, I determined this was occuring because the Windows
drivers failed to detect a digital display because the EDID information was not being returned
quick enough. It is not an issue with the DVI/HDMI video signal because I was able to trick the
graphics card by using a 25ft cable to boot into Windows desktop, then switch to 50ft cable. In
this scenario displaying WMV-HD 1080p videos had no sparkles and windows desktop had no artifacts
with the 50ft cable. Further, I was able to insert a Gefen DVI Detective to return EDID information
to the 6600GT card much quicker. With the DVI Detective in place, the 6600GT had no problems
booting into Windows desktop, even with 50ft 24AWG HDMI cable. Interestingly this issue might
also depend on the display. When testing 6600GT through 5x1 switch and 50ft cable direct to
Sharp display panel DVI (as opposed to going through AVC), the same issue did not occur.

3) this particular switcher has a feature that detects whether a signal is active by testing for
some signals on the HDMI input. The MyHD MDP-130 PC HDTV tuner passes this signal only if connected
to a DVI graphics card using the loopback cable. If the MDP-130 DVI port is used without the loopback
cable connected to the graphics card, the signal will not be present on the DVI cable and the switch
will think there is no active signal and thus will not allow the port to be selected. The workaround
is to use the DVI loopback cable. Ideally the feature of detecting signal could be disabled and that
might be a consideration for a future release.

4) when switching from a device which has negotiated YCbCr to nVidia 6600GT, colorspace might
not be reset properly to RGB. This is *not* an issue with the 5x1 switch, rather the hotplug
negotiation between nVidia 6600GT and the Sharp display. Workaround is to switch to different
video resolution and switch back to original. Alternate workarounds include switching to an RGB
device that is properly negotiating like Samsung HD841 prior to switching to PNY Verto 6600GT,
or going in the config menu to force Sharp display to use RGB, or to configure all devices on
the switch to use RGB. Potentially the workaround could be as simple as switching to unused
HDMI port before switching to nVidia 6600GT display, assuming the active signal detection can
be disabled.


Appendix
========

IR protocol decode
------------------
Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch
Protocol: NECx1
Main Device #: 8
Sub Device #: 8

EFC
058 Input 1
119 Input 2
249 Input 3
250 Input 4
244 Input 5
052 Input Up
056 Input Down

Thank you for your excellent review!

Wow...that has to be the most thorough review of a sub-$150 piece of equipment I've ever seen. Nice job! http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/thumb.gif

(one more reason Monoprice gets my vote for AVS sponsor of the year)

I just pre-ordered this switch partly based on this information. Thanks alot. The 4-port that wouldn't output anything above 480P is going back.

I also put in a pre-order based on this review. Now, if it can only come in sooner than the ETA, and work as advertised, I'll be absolutely THRILLED!!

Have you had a chance to review octava switch? They a slightly more expensive but they claim that they offer upgrade path for more inputs. Also, they posted some data/picture indicating that their switch retains the signal better. I could not understand their claim. Can you please take a look at this:
clear eye link (http://www.octavainc.com/Clear%20Eye%20difference.htm)

Perhaps you can comment on their claims?

Thank you.

i had just returned the 4x1 hdmi switcher a few days ago and i was going to order the 5x1 switch based on your review the reason i returned the 4x1 is that it introduced video noise in the fine details of an hd source and it just gave the picture an unsmooth look to it. Does this new switcher have any of these problems i really need a switcher and i would hate to have to return another one

i had just returned the 4x1 hdmi switcher a few days ago and i was going to order the 5x1 switch based on your review the reason i returned the 4x1 is that it introduced video noise in the fine details of an hd source and it just gave the picture an unsmooth look to it. Does this new switcher have any of these problems i really need a switcher and i would hate to have to return another one
I tested the 4x1 briefly but not as extensively as the 5x1. On the 4x1 port 1&2 worked well for all my equipment. Port 3/4 only worked for some of my equipment. The equipment that didn't work well on port 3/4 had sparkles even at 1080i. The same equipment had no such issues with the 5x1.

I can't tell you 100% you will have no problems with 5x1 because I think that would be irresponsible of me not having tested your equipment, but based on my testing most likely there will be no issues with sparkles and I'm saying that having done testing on a reasonably diverse set of equipment. Read the caveats in my review to see what I encountered and my workarounds.

Have you had a chance to review octava switch? They a slightly more expensive but they claim that they offer upgrade path for more inputs. Also, they posted some data/picture indicating that their switch retains the signal better. I could not understand their claim. Can you please take a look at this:
clear eye link (http://www.octavainc.com/Clear%20Eye%20difference.htm)

Perhaps you can comment on their claims?

I haven't had a chance to review the Octava switch, but I have spoken to someone that is using one. From what I can gather both switches perform very similarly almost to the point that I thought they were the same switch, but after examining the power input and the placement of the LEDs it is possible they aren't the same switch. Also the remote control on the Octava is different.

I think the Clear Eye performs a similar function to the Equalizer function in the monoprice switch. I understand their claims, I just don't have equipment to verify how clean the eye diagram is but I can tell you with monoprice I had no issues with sparkles on any of my tests which says alot, given I tested lots of different equipment and I tested 1080p @ 60Hz with 50ft HDMI cables.

I can't comment directly on the Octava, but based on conversations it appears to perform well (and it seems to have the same caveats as the monoprice). Also based on conversation, Octava appears to have excellent customer service also (I would say both Monoprice and Octava go beyond what I've experienced with almost every other company I've dealt with), but my understanding of Octava is based on second hand knowledge (though I have no reason to doubt it)

For me I would choose Monoprice based on price and my past positive experience with Monoprice and their cables, but I don't think you'll go wrong with either one (again I can't comment directly on something I haven't personally tested, but that is my gut feel).

i just ordered there 5x1 switcher i hope it works with my application, i guess i will find out soon, also thanks for your honest opinion, i have also had positive experience with monoprice i know if it doesn't work the way i would like they will take it back with no questions . i also ordered extra hdmi cables, i think there cables are excellent and how could you beat the price.

sfhub,
Thanks to your review, I too ordered a 4X1 switch from Monoprice.
Monoprice was the least expensive and Octavia was not too bad.
The rest of the companies - $400? $500? Wow! What a rip off!
Thanks to your testing, we now know that the monoprice unit is good enough!

But then, have checked cables at best buy recently? "Gold plated" USB cables or HDMI cables? Wow!

It looks like the ETA for the 5-port enhanced switch from monoprice has been pushed back from 2/27 to 3/15.

Bummer. :(

i think they got things mixed up on there web site the 2 port switch has an eta of 3/15 and is not stock but they state the 5 port switch is in stock, i ordered the 5 port switch yesterday. i plan on calling them tomorrow to see what the eta is.

I believe the early shipment is spoken for so the ETA reflects the next shipment.

In stock with the ETA qualification just means they are taking pre-orders. They aren't taking pre-orders on the 2-port yet.

I ordered a 5port Sunday night and Monoprice sent me an automated tracking number that night! The UPS tracking number shows the package as departed and Monoprice's web site says the 5port HDMI switch shipped with my cables. (Their prices are so good! :p )

ORDER #0123456789ABCDE
PID: 2777
Product: 5 Port Enhanced HDMI Switch with Equalizer (Pre-Order Only; ETA: 3/15/2006)
Qty.: 1
Qty Shipped: 1
Qty BackOrder: 0

The same page also says:

Order Status
Date Placed: 2/19/2006
Date Shipped: 3/15/2006 >> ?? :confused: ??
Shipped Out via UPS Ground

My hunch is the public ETA and "Date Shipped" are somehow tied together in their computer and may reference the next shipment coming to Mono.

Note, the original Mono 2port/4port switches are discontinued and are not listed on the HDMI switch page anymore.

I sure hope my unit is snuggled in a nice and safe UPS box on it's way because I need it bad for my Sanyo Z4, Oppo, DCT6412III, and 7800GTX! :D

i placed my order on 2/19 and according to them i have a 3/15 ship date it says ready to ship out but the tracking # is not available yet, i think they mean the cables i ordered are ready and they are waiting for the 5x1 to come in

Their web site now ays 3/23/06.


http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10106&cs_id=1010602&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2

Has anyone called lately to see what's going on?
If no one posts back with any info. I'll call tomorrow and let you guys know what they say.

your right but when i tracked my order it still says 3/15 may be they are sold out for one shipping date and what they show now on there site is for there next shipment ???

I'm Sean from Monoprice and would like to give you an update on shipping date for the pre-orders.

1. ETA 2/27 Pre-Orders: Expected to be shipped out on 2/28/2006 or 3/1/2006 the latest.

2. ETA 3/15 Pre-Orders:
Some orders (first come first serve) are expected to be shipped out on 2/28/2006, but others are expected to be shipped out around 3/15/2006 or 3/17/2006 the lastest.

3. ETA 3/23 Pre-Orders: Expected to be shipped out on 3/23/2006 or before.

Truly sorry for the delay and any inconvenience it may cause you. I'll do my best to meet the ETA promised. Thanks alot for your support.

Best regards,

Sean Lee

Thanks for the info Sean. I placed my pre-order a couple of weeks ago after returning a 4-port that didn't want to play nice. Hopefully my 5-port will be in the first shipment. :)

Caveats:
--------
1) when testing Panasonic S77 DVD player, I found that the player performs a form of cable length
detection during the startup procedure. When used with 5x1 switch and HDMI output cable lengths
25ft and longer, the DVD player displays a "U 70-2" error. According to the manual this error
is for HDMI cable too long. I tested a 50ft 24AWG cable directly from Panasonic S77 DVD player
to Sharp AVC HDMI port and this error did not occur. It appears using the 5x1 switch introduces
enough delay that the S77 DVD player thinks the cable is too long. This should not be an issue
if you intend to use output cable lengths up to 15ft, which did not exhibit this behavior. This
behavior could also be related to the Sharp AVC HDMI port, so you may not see this issue at all
if you use a different display.



Hmmm I"m worried becasue I have a s77 with a 25 foot run (monprice hdmi cable) to a AE900. Does this mean I wont get a picture?

Dang! I got my Mono shipment today and it's only the cable portion of the order.
I guess my 5-porter will ship between 2/28 to 3/17. If it works with my gear, it'll be worth the wait! :p

Hmmm I"m worried becasue I have a s77 with a 25 foot run (monprice hdmi cable) to a AE900. Does this mean I wont get a picture?
I don't know. In my best guess, it is dependent also on the HDMI/DVI port of the display so you might have no issues at all or the same issue.

Just got off the phone w/ Sean at Monoprice. He said they are expecting DHL w/ the delivery of the switches today and hope they can then ship out to us (the customers) Wed/Thurs.

I also have the 4 port DIGI-Media unit and got horizontal lines when using my RS Accurian OTA tuner. Worked fine on my Nvidia 5700 DVI card and H20 Directv rec. I emailed monoprice and Sean answered within a day and said get the 5 port, I'll pay shipping. I ordered it on Sunday night and have a tracking number that lists the info received by UPS, but the 23rd as ship date. Hope it is sooner. Good service by monoprice.

Chuck

I ordered it on Sunday night and have a tracking number that lists the info received by UPS, but the 23rd as ship date. Hope it is sooner. Good service by monoprice.

Chuck

They're expecting 2 shipments. One today and the other in mid-March.

Couldn't hunt Sean down. Spoke to the lady that answered the phone. She said the switches came in today and could possibly still ship today but probably tomorrow.

UPDATE: (90 Minutes later)- Sean just emailed the tracking number to me. I'm having it sent 2-day overnight. I should have it Friday.

I really got tired of them continually pushing their ship dates up. It's been a 2 month wait for me and I finally got fed up and canceled my pre-order.

Sean might be a nice guy and all that, but he's a poor "businessman" in his inability to estimate ship dates in my opinion :(

Regrettably, I'll have to shop elsewhere for future purchases!

I really got tired of them continually pushing their ship dates up. It's been a 2 month wait for me and I finally got fed up and canceled my pre-order.

Sean might be a nice guy and all that, but he's a poor "businessman" in his inability to estimate ship dates in my opinion :(

Regrettably, I'll have to shop elsewhere for future purchases!

Sorry, Expidia. There has been a Chinese New Year between when all chinese people don't work for about 2 weeks. That's why the ETA has been postponed. The ETA has been set on 2/27/2006 since 2/3/2006 when I've started to take pre-orders.

All 2/27/2006 pre-orders and partial of 3/15/2006 pre-orders have been shipped out on 3/1/2006 (2 Days delayed). Truly sorry for the delay and any inconvenience it may cause you.

Regards,

Sean

Sean,

1. Do you have plans to introduce a 5X2 (with two identical/parallel outputs) unit? I would like to be able to watch the same picture on two TVs, simultaneously.

2. Would there be a signal degradation, if I were to attach a 2 in and 2 out device to your 5X1 switch output.

Sean,

1. Do you have plans to introduce a 5X2 (with two identical/parallel outputs) unit? I would like to be able to watch the same picture on two TVs, simultaneously.
I've received a sample for a 5X4 HDMI switcher splitter and will have 5X4 HDMI switcher splitter for sale shortly. :)

2. Would there be a signal degradation, if I were to attach a 2 in and 2 out device to your 5X1 switch output.
This 5X1 HDMI switcher has Equalizer built-in and no signal loss was found when used it with a few 50ft HDMI cables at 1080p/60Hz.

I hope you will be able to convince sflub to do a test on the upcoming 5X4. When is the anticipated date? You don't need to give a firm date but just an estimate.

Initial tests shows no sparklies compared to the previous 4x1 HDMI switch. Now I am a happy camper. Thanks, Sean of Monoprice for an excellent product.

Sony SATHD200
Momitsu 880 DVD Player
Monoprice 5x1 HDMI Switch
Optoma H78DC3 DLP Projector

Soon: Sony PS3 (hopefully)

I received my monoprice 5X1 converter today but I have a problem. When I run my Sony DVP-NS90V into my VPL-VW100 directly I get a 1080i signal just fine, but when I run it through the 5X1 it comes out 480P. Anyone have a similar problem? Why would this change the signal from 1080i to 480P?

Thanks

Evan

The switcher is now changing my cable box to 480P as well. It is a motorola DCT-3412. It is actually changing the cable boxes settings. I have to keep going back into the box and change them to 1080i. Then when I use the switcher the cable boxes internal settings change to 480P.

Evan,

I had a similar problem using a Toshiba DVD player and a different box. It was a DVI 2X2 box from digital connection. The Toshiba had HDMI output and when ever I connected it to the DVI 2X2 box (using hdmi to dvi cable), it would revert back from 1080i to 480p. I had to get rid of that player and get a Zenith with DVI output.

You problem seems to be similar.

As I understand, it has to do with "hand shake" of the hdmi protocol.
My guess is that: The source devices are not recognizing the monoprice 5X1 switch's hdmi circuit as a hdcp compliant device (even if it truly is a hdcp compliant device).

I am not familiar enough with the technical details. I am sure that there are experts on this forum who can clarify this.

Basically, you might need to get a different 5X1 switch or monoprice will have to fix this problem. Have you tried Octava? They too have a similar switch in a similar price range.

It seems that the monoprice is working fine for many devices. I hope there is a solution for this or that there is a product which does not have this problem. I too spent several hours trying to figure this out before tossing the toshiba DVD player out. I did not get a chance to try any other hdmi dvd player.

I have another box from digital connections: It converts dvi to rgbhv. It works fine with my directv hdtivo hdmi output but it too did not work with the toshiba 1080i hdmi. Hence, monoprice box might not be completely at fault. Perhaps some companies are not following hdmi protocols properly - whether its monoprice or toshiba or sony - its difficult to identify. We might as well start with monoprice, since Sean is willing to listen/help.

To sfhub, thanks for the reviews. Your testing gives great insight to the problems and pitfalls one should expect when connecting multiple DVI and HDMI sources to HDCP compliant display devices.

It will probably be several years until these types of connections can be made as simply and reliably as high impedance RCA connections have been with audio/video equipment sold in the last 20 years. I can remember when many experts and users alike complained that RCA connections and CE standards were poorly designed and would be unreliable and difficult to interface for general population use.

Some recent digging on the internet found some other HDMI and DVI switch products that may prove interesting for you to take a look at:

DAEWOO HDS 21A HDMI 2 port switch
AV Link HDMI M 41 HDMI 4 port switch (manual)
Digi Media HDMI E41HDMI 4 port switch (remote)
Sima VS-HD31 HDMI 3 port switch (remote)
Video Storm VRM-62D HDMI and DVI inputs

The switcher is now changing my cable box to 480P as well. It is a motorola DCT-3412. It is actually changing the cable boxes settings. I have to keep going back into the box and change them to 1080i. Then when I use the switcher the cable boxes internal settings change to 480P.
What length cables are you using?

I tested with Motorola DCT-5100 and didn't see the problem you are describing.

With most cable boxes though it is best when connecting to a HDMI/DVI switch if you pull the power plug then plug it back in and immediately select the cable box so it is the active device on the switch. The reason is many cable boxes do not renegotiate properly when the cable is disconnected. They only do the negotiation when they are first powered up and if they aren't the active device when first powered up, they revert to basic 480p mode.

You might be seeing something similar with the DVD player. With the DVD player though, I don't think you'll need to pull the power plug to renegotiate. They should renegotiate just fine using the power button on the remote.

The cable box needs to pull the plug because it never really shuts off even when you press the power button on the remote (plus many have simplistic designs that assume you never disconnect the cable)

Not saying this is definitely your problem, but that is what I would test first. Basically select the device you are testing as the active device prior to powering up.

I had a similar problem using a Toshiba DVD player and a different box. It was a DVI 2X2 box from digital connection. The Toshiba had HDMI output and when ever I connected it to the DVI 2X2 box (using hdmi to dvi cable), it would revert back from 1080i to 480p. I had to get rid of that player and get a Zenith with DVI output.

You problem seems to be similar.

As I understand, it has to do with "hand shake" of the hdmi protocol.
My guess is that: The source devices are not recognizing the monoprice 5X1 switch's hdmi circuit as a hdcp compliant device (even if it truly is a hdcp compliant device).
...
I have another box from digital connections: It converts dvi to rgbhv. It works fine with my directv hdtivo hdmi output but it too did not work with the toshiba 1080i hdmi. Hence, monoprice box might not be completely at fault. Perhaps some companies are not following hdmi protocols properly - whether its monoprice or toshiba or sony - its difficult to identify. We might as well start with monoprice, since Sean is willing to listen/help.
What you described is one possible explanation. I could be wrong, but as I understand the design of the 5x1 switch, it is a HDMI/HDCP passthrough device so it should pass through HDCP to the display thus there is nothing to recognize on the switch.

My two first choices as explanations would be
1) the source device was not selected as active when it was powered up and that messed up HDMI/HDCP negotiation. Well designed products will detect hot plug and will renegotiate when they become the active device. Poorly designed products only negotiate when they are first powered up.
2) cable length, while not affective video quality per se, is introducing enough delays (when used through the switcher) that parts of negotiation process that have more aggressive timings are timing out causing negotiation to not complete properly

I'm just trying to be helpful and offer some explanations. It could easily be what you describe or something else.

The DVI to RGBHV device is a little different. That device actually is an HDCP device vs being passthrough. So your reasoning would certainly be valid for that device.

Just connected the new 5-port multi-switch from monoprice. So far everything looks great. No snow or other picture quality issues. I hope it stays this way. The equipment using is listed below.




Panasonic TH-50PX50U
5-LNB/H20
HR10-250
Harmony 880
Sony DAV-FR8 HT
LG-511

Well, I am having some minor issues right now with my setup that includes the Monoprice 5x1 switch. However, I haven't totally ruled out yet that the problem is with the cable box (Motorola 6200 series), the DVD player (Oppo), or the cables.

On a side note, has anyone yet been able to program a Harmony 880 with the discrete input codes for the switcher?

On a side note, has anyone yet been able to program a Harmony 880 with the discrete input codes for the switcher?

Yes, I did it this weekend. Just run the learning commands.

Well, I am having some minor issues right now with my setup that includes the Monoprice 5x1 switch. However, I haven't totally ruled out yet that the problem is with the cable box (Motorola 6200 series), the DVD player (Oppo), or the cables.

On a side note, has anyone yet been able to program a Harmony 880 with the discrete input codes for the switcher?
What sorts of issues did you have with Oppo? and Motorola?

Keep in mind with Motorola, it is suggested when you first *plug in the power cable* of the cable box, have it be the active selected input. Many cable boxes have problems if you plug the power in when they aren't the active input, then later switch them to the active input. Basically they like to see the HDCP keys when they are first powered up, but after that they never really power down even if you turn the power off from the remote.

What sorts of issues did you have with Oppo? and Motorola?

Keep in mind with Motorola, it is suggested when you first *plug in the power cable* of the cable box, have it be the active selected input. Many cable boxes have problems if you plug the power in when they aren't the active input, then later switch them to the active input. Basically they like to see the HDCP keys when they are first powered up, but after that they never really power down even if you turn the power off from the remote.
Well, I am starting to think that the problem isn't with the 5x1 switcher, but rather with the Oppo. I am getting tons of horizontal red lines when I go to upconvert the DVI output. I'll also try the "unplugging" on the Motorola, as it seems that Comcast hasn't been able to successfully send me a full signal as of yet and this may be part of the reason. So, if I understand this correctly, I should have the Motorola plugged in to the switcher, and the switcher selecting the input for the Motorola....and THEN I actually plug in (to an outlet for power) the Motorola unit. Is this right?

So, if I understand this correctly, I should have the Motorola plugged in to the switcher, and the switcher selecting the input for the Motorola....and THEN I actually plug in (to an outlet for power) the Motorola unit. Is this right?
Basically you have the right idea, but the 5x1 switch has active signal detection so it won't let you select the Motorola box when the power plug of the Motorola box isn't plugged in. Instead, plug the power plug of Motorola in, then immediately select the input corresponding to the Motorola.

If it works, then this is something that really only needs to be done once, because the cable box never shuts itself off, even if you press the power button on the remote. After the box has negotiated HDCP you can hot swap from that point on.

If the cable box gets reset in the future, firmware update, ping from cable co to reset box, power outage, etc. you will have to do it again, but hopefully those don't happen too often.

I just helped a person with a Scientific Atlanta 8300 which had the same problem with Gefen 4x1 switch, in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652892

I received the new box on Friday hooked it up, and there is no picture form my S97, I get the code in the review article. I have a 30' cable that runs from my ae700 to the switching box, to the dvd player and my sat. box, h10. I have nothing but snow on the sat. box and no picture from the dvd player. I wish this unit would work and Sean from Monoprice has been very helpful even if the box will not work. I had to return the 4 plug hdmi switch even though the dvd player worked great it would not work with my sat box all the time, sometimes it would link up and sometime nothing but snow. I really want a switching box, any recommendations. I would like to say that Sean has been very very helpful with my problem.
Bobby

I have nothing but snow on the sat. box and no picture from the dvd player.
For the Sat box, have you tried the same suggestion I made above for the cable box? Basically pull the power plug on the Sat box, plug the power back in to Sat box, and immediately make sure the Sat device is selected on the 5x1 switch. When you have all snow, then that is a problem with HDCP keys not being properly negotiated. Basically you are viewing encrypted video without properly decrypting.

With the "U 70-2" error on the S97, the only workaround I found is to use a shorter output cable. I listed what cable lengths worked for me in the review.

I wish I could use a shorter cable, but no luck. I installed all of my cable in the wall on a new home construction. I have a projector and the cable length is correct for my application. I really wish I could use the unit. I must say again that Sean from Monoprice has been great. I am still wondering where this leaves me? Any suggestions on a switching box that might work. I have talked to Walt B on this site and he tried the Octava box on a panny dvd player and had the same results that I am having with the box from Monoprice. I'm not sure where to turn to next. The only thing that I did not ask Walt was if he purchased the signal booster box that might help with the length of the cable.

The only thing that I did not ask Walt was if he purchased the signal booster box that might help with the length of the cable.
I've tried the extender. It doesn't help. I don't believe it is a signal strength issue anyhow.

In my opinion the Panasonic DVD player is being overly aggressive in its timing expectations. Other devices work fine with 50ft cables but the Panny has troubles at 25ft.

I wonder if the switching box will work with the new hd-dvd players that are coming to market this month. I was thinking about purchasing one and replacing my S97 anyway. Then I could keep the box. This whole hdmi thing is crazy, I keep wondering if the ps3 or the xbox 360 at sometime will work with different switch boxes. Do you buy one today and have everything work,just to find out the next thing that you put in your case won't.

Well, I managed to get the proper "handshake" between the cable box and the rest of my equipment. Thank you, sfhub, for helping me with that. However, one issue remains. Anytime I use the upconversion of the Oppo, or try to send a 720p or 1080i signal using the cable box, I am getting red artifacts. With the Oppo they are more severe red horizontal lines. With the Cable box, they are more like speckles (this may be the "sparklies" people refer to, I'm not sure). The cables I am using are from BlueJeansCable, so I assume the quality is ok, and the run is under 35 feet. I have the cable company coming out to test the power/quality of the signal this morning. Unfortunately, I assume that the problem probably lies with the switcher as I am getting a similar issue from 2 different components. Does my hypothesis sound right or do you folks have any other ideas?

So the cable company came and went. We even did a direct feed from outside of the house into the box, still getting the red speckles. I'm thinking it is the box and have dispatched an email to Monoprice. I'll let everyone know if anything interesting turns up.

Please pardon the obvious question - I might have missed reading in your previous posting - how is the picture without the monoprice box? Considering the 35 ft length.. how much different is the picture with and without the monoprice box?

So the cable company came and went. We even did a direct feed from outside of the house into the box, still getting the red speckles. I'm thinking it is the box and have dispatched an email to Monoprice. I'll let everyone know if anything interesting turns up.

What is the display you are using? There is actually a wide variation in the performance of the HDMI/DVI receiver chips used in displays. Some of the earlier Silicon Image chips barely meet the receiver guideline, and definately will not properly receive a HDMI signal from a copper cable longer than 15 ft. The newer chips are MUCH better, and can handle much more signal degradation before you start to see the speckles/lines.

Do you get these speckles if you connect directly (take out the hdmi switch)?

Please pardon the obvious question - I might have missed reading in your previous posting - how is the picture without the monoprice box? Considering the 35 ft length.. how much different is the picture with and without the monoprice box?
Actually, we haven't done that experiment yet. The only way we will get to try it (later today) is to bring the DVD player over to the projector and use the 3 ft DVI/HDMI cable. Problem is that the long run is an HDMI/HDMI cable and the DVD player outputs through DVI. This will, however, only reduce the problem possibilities. For instance, if the picture still has the red artifacts I can then assume the problem is with the DVD player, the 3 ft cable, or the projector, and rules out the switch. However, I won't know if it is just the projector causing a problem (I have three different cables I can try to experiment).

What is the display you are using? There is actually a wide variation in the performance of the HDMI/DVI receiver chips used in displays. Some of the earlier Silicon Image chips barely meet the receiver guideline, and definately will not properly receive a HDMI signal from a copper cable longer than 15 ft. The newer chips are MUCH better, and can handle much more signal degradation before you start to see the speckles/lines.

Do you get these speckles if you connect directly (take out the hdmi switch)?
The display I am using is a Panasonic PT-AE900U, with less than 30 hours on it. The chip should be good enough in terms of quality (assuming there is nothing wrong with it). Once I do the above experiment, I might have a better idea of where the problem lies.

Actually, we haven't done that experiment yet. The only way we will get to try it (later today) is to bring the DVD player over to the projector and use the 3 ft DVI/HDMI cable. Problem is that the long run is an HDMI/HDMI cable and the DVD player outputs through DVI. This will, however, only reduce the problem possibilities. For instance, if the picture still has the red artifacts I can then assume the problem is with the DVD player, the 3 ft cable, or the projector, and rules out the switch. However, I won't know if it is just the projector causing a problem (I have three different cables I can try to experiment).

Are you using any DVI->HDMI or HDMI->DVI dongles? If you are try adjusting the config to get rid of those. As a matter of troubleshooting, I wouldn't assume the cables are fine, regardless of who they are from. I would assume everything is the culprit until you can definitively eliminate one as a suspect.

What I would do is start with a known working config and start introducing components until you figure out what the culprit is. Don't worry whether it is practical for the setup to be your final config. This is just troubleshooting. Once you figure out the problem, you can decide how to address it. So basically if you can move your cable box (it doesn't matter if you have no cable outlet, the box will still send some video output saying there is something wrong with the channel) and oppo closer to the projector, connect with shorter cables direct to projector. See if there is any problem. Then connect the switch to the shorter cable one device to the switch. If there are no problems, disconnect the first device and connect the second. See if there are any problems. Then replace the output cable of the 5x1 switch with a longer cable.

I can't say for sure because I haven't tested your equipment, but unless the switch you got is defective, it wouldn't be my first choice as to the problem. I tested a lot of equipment even at higher bandwidth than you are testing and with longer cables. Never got sparkles on any equipment, except once when I was using a DVI->HDMI dongle which wasn't up to par. When I replaced the dongle the sparkles were gone.

Well, I'm not using any dongles, just a DVI-HDMI cable from the DVD to switch(same with cable) and then an HDMI-HDMI cable from the switch to the projector. I'll be doing the tests this afternoon so we'll see what happens.

OK, latest results of my amateur testing would lead me to believe it is the switch that is the problem, and not the cable. Also, the cable length (I would think) would not be the problem as there was no issues at all with the lower resolutions, just the higher ones. I'm sure I'm wrong with this assumption, but I would think that if the problem was the cables, I would still experience some sort of issue at 480p, and something progressively worse as I tried to do 720 and 1080. This was not the case though, as 480 was clear and 720 and 1080 were equally bad. No sweat though, as long as Monoprice switches out the units for me easily I have no qualms.

OK, latest results of my amateur testing would lead me to believe it is the switch that is the problem, and not the cable. Also, the cable length (I would think) would not be the problem as there was no issues at all with the lower resolutions, just the higher ones. I'm sure I'm wrong with this assumption, but I would think that if the problem was the cables, I would still experience some sort of issue at 480p, and something progressively worse as I tried to do 720 and 1080. This was not the case though, as 480 was clear and 720 and 1080 were equally bad. No sweat though, as long as Monoprice switches out the units for me easily I have no qualms.
Could you detail what you tested and in what order?

Your assumption that if it is the cable, then you would definitely see problems at 480p is not correct. With 720p/1080i and most of all with 1080p, there are less tolerance for problems with the eye diagram, so it is quite possible for a cable to test fine at 480p, but not at 720p/1080i.

The higher the bandwidth, the more problems can be exposed all over the TMDS chain.

Those problems can be in the TMDS transmitters, the cable, the switch, or the receiver.

nVidia had a problem with their graphics card where the TMDS transmitters weren't up to par and they weren't reliable above 135MHz which means they couldn't do 1600x1200 and 1920x1080 reliably.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1367926,00.asp

--
Here is an example of poor TMDS transmitter coupled with longer cable causing issues.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1367919,00.asp
Cable length can be an issue. We've seen 135MHz DVI signals drive a compliant 1600x1200 display – until you attach a ten-foot (three-meter) cable. Then the image quality takes a nosedive.


IMO it makes sense to do specific tests to isolate the problem and I can't tell from what you've written so far what has been tested. Of course if the switch is defective you should have it replaced. I'm just trying to save you some back and forth with returning the unit, until you've really determined where the problem is. Maybe you have already, but just haven't described what you tested in enough detail. I was a little concerned because some of the assumptions you are making are not accurate and that may lead to incorrect conclusions.

Well, I'm having the same problem with the monoprice 5x1 switch with the panasonic s97 DVD player.
I'm running 6ft to the switch then 16 ft to Panasonic AU900.
I tried different cables, with no help. My 16 ft cable is highend HDMI from dvigear.
All the cables are HDMI to HDMI.
My HD receiver from Direct TV works fine, HD programs as well.

Well, I'm having the same problem with the monoprice 5x1 switch with the panasonic s97 DVD player.
Could you describe the problem? Static, sparkles, red lines, or "U 70-2" cable too long error?

I guess the only way for me to ensure it is the switcher is to buy a short length of HDMI-HDMI cable and go Oppo (DVI-HDMI) to switch (HDMI-HDMI) to projector. If the speckles are still there, then I can assume it is the switch, right? I just hate to have to pay for a cable I won't need long term and delay a decision. I kind of figured that my assumptions, while logical, wouldn't be 100% accurate. Thanks for helping me realize I was right, at least in knowing that I might be wrong. lol.

Seems I need both my Sony HDMI DVD and my 8300HD cable box "on" in order to swap inputs by the remote's arrow buttons or pressing 1 or 2.

This might cause issues when I try and program activity buttons into my Harmony 880. Because when you press an activity button all components that are not going to be used are in the off condition so the switch is not going to change to the correct component if they are in an "off" mode.

I thought the new 5/1 Monoprice switch was going to have an option to turn off the hot swapping feature? I see no mention of this in the instruction sheet.

I sent this question to Sean at Monoprice too!

Last week, I cxl'd my 5/1 switch pre-order. I was p*ssed because I have been waiting 78 days from the time I received the 1st defective 4/1 HDMI switch. My ETA had passed once again with no shipment so I cxl'd the order and was going finally look elsewhere.

But Sean immediately emailed me after he read my post here and said he now had the pre-ordered switches in stock and would hold one for me and fill my original order if I re-entered it.

I did and the switch was sent out with 2 day delivery.

Impressions so far:
Worth the wait as I was disappointed with the 1st 4/1 from Monoprice. Not only did it not work but I hated it's ugly (IMO) lime green color. Since it used an infrared remote it had to be in sight and it's color was a real turn off to me sitting on the low shelves of my $4,500 system.

Good news: the new enhanced 5/1 is a "slick" looking unit. It's shiny black and real thin. A little wider than the original, but much thinner in height and depth.

Has a nicer remote too. Black and a decent size with buttons rather than the 4/1's cheap tiny membrane type remote.

Nice small and light AC wall wart included to.

Nicely packaged.

This one is well worth the $136, an attractive addition to any system and can also be mounted vertically on the side of a component, cabinet or a wall.

Thanks Sean, great product .. . . . and this one even works!

3/11/06 Update: new wrinkle found if you're trying to use the Harmony 880 with your HT setup, I'm now having problems with my brands of components due to it seems all HDMI components have to be "on" as the inputs on the switch need to be hot (active) in order to change inputs.

This new model switch was "supposed" to come with an optional feature to turn off the auto active switching feature. An email back from Sean says these first 5/1 shipped switches don't have this built in yet.

Looks like this 2nd switch is going back. And each time I get an RMA I get "truly sorry, we don't pick up return shipping charges" I'm getting sick of hearing "truly sorry".

At least Sean shipped this 5/1 one to me at his expense and gave me a discount on the switch for my time wasted, but what good is all this if I have to go through the ever elusive and constantly moving ETA times for yet another model that I don't even know will work with my setup? Now I'll be into this for $18 in return postage for the two switches and still no working (at least with my system using the Harmony 880) switch.

The early 5/1 switch will probably work for most users, if you don't care that any of your components need to be on first and this switch has no on/off power switch. It's on all the time with to bright green lights glowing (annoying in my bedroom).

This might cause issues when I try and program activity buttons into my Harmony 880. Because when you press an activity button all components that are not going to be used are in the off condition so the switch is not going to change to the correct component if they are in an "off" mode.
Is it possible to change the order of turning on the units in your Harmony 880 so the devices all turn on first before the switch (or any input select for any device) commands are sent out?

I think this would be most logical for Harmony because there are other devices which sometimes do not accept IR commands when they are first turned on (some TVs and receivers suffer from this "feature") and you need to wait 2-3 seconds between when you turn on the devices and when you send the IR to switch inputs.

As to the active signal detection, after a month of usage, sometimes I find it very useful and sometimes I find I want to turn it off. I'm able for example to cycle through just the inputs that have something turned on very quickly rather than cycling through 5 inputs every time. I'm also able to simulate running two switches in the same location because the two switches I use are mutually exclusive. So switch #1 I can send discrete 1-5 and it won't affect switch #2 because the latter only has one active signal. When I need to use switch #2, I just turn on the device and send discrete 2, then switch #1 become irrelevant.

One other thing, if you only ever have one device turned on for the 5x1 switch, with the autoselect feature, you don't even need to send IR commands to the switch, it will always select the active input if there is only one. Again this feature can be useful, but at times I feel like shutting it off.

Is it possible to change the order of turning on the units in your Harmony 880 so the devices all turn on first before the switch (or any input select for any device) commands are sent out?

I think this would be most logical for Harmony because there are other devices which sometimes do not accept IR commands when they are first turned on (some TVs and receivers suffer from this "feature") and you need to wait 2-3 seconds between when you turn on the devices and when you send the IR to switch inputs.

As to the active signal detection, after a month of usage, sometimes I find it very useful and sometimes I find I want to turn it off. I'm able for example to cycle through just the inputs that have something turned on very quickly rather than cycling through 5 inputs every time. I'm also able to simulate running two switches in the same location because the two switches I use are mutually exclusive. So switch #1 I can send discrete 1-5 and it won't affect switch #2 because the latter only has one active signal. When I need to use switch #2, I just turn on the device and send discrete 2, then switch #1 become irrelevant.

One other thing, if you only ever have one device turned on for the 5x1 switch, with the autoselect feature, you don't even need to send IR commands to the switch, it will always select the active input if there is only one. Again this feature can be useful, but at times I feel like shutting it off.

Expidia says: Thx Sfhub, I asked about if there was a way to turn off the auto select feature in another thread and emailed Sean too, I can then maybe have the Harmony 880 learn the 1 and 2 port commands discreetly. I was waiting until I get my system working correctly before I make the dreaded tech support call to Logitech. Tip: always ask for level two support and keep track of your incident # so they will put you right through to level 2 who solves issues in 5 minutes. Their level 1 support is a joke, totally useless as I've wasted too many hours talking to untrained techs.

After reading these recent posts I think responded to one incorrectly earlier in this thread.

Is there a difference between just "learning commands" and "learning commands discreeltly"?
A little off topic. Sorry TIA.

After reading these recent posts I think responded to one incorrectly earlier in this thread.

Is there a difference between just "learning commands" and "learning commands discreeltly"?
A little off topic. Sorry TIA.
I thought he meant learn the discrete input select for port #1 and port #2.

I don't think he meant discrete to apply to "learning"

Expidia says: Thx Sfhub, I asked about if there was a way to turn off the auto select feature in anther thread and emailed Sean too, I can then maybe have the Harmony 880 learn the 1 and 2 port commands discreetly.
I don't know why autoselect would affect your discrete input select IR. The switch still honors discrete input select as long as the input you are selecting has active signal.

I received my new Monoprice 5 x 1 switch HDX-501 and I still have the same issue that I had with the first generation of Monoprice HDMI switcher.

I'm unable to acquiring picture from my Dishnetwork satellite box 942 on my front projector when I switch from any other input.

The only way to have it back is to go on another projector input to see the picture on screen of the 942 and then, go in the setup HD menu of the 942 and change the output resolution to another format and then, return to HDMI input of the projector and the picture is back.

Is there something to do or another switcher to buy to avoid this and solve this issue ???

Gefen is more expensive (i think $400 range).
octava is in the $200 range but I have tried neither.
I too need to buy a switch and I am glad its you (and others) who are testing these out! Frankly, I expected these kind of hdcp/handshake problems and hence I did not really want to try out any of the switches yet. I ordered a monoprice but fortunately for me, they did not have stock. Hence I cancelled and decided to watch this thread - which has been most informative for those of us waiting to buy.

The only way to have it back is to go on another projector input to see the picture on screen of the 942 and then, go in the setup HD menu of the 942 and change the output resolution to another format and then, return to HDMI input of the projector and the picture is back.

Try this experiment and see what happens. Remove the 5x1 switch. Connect the 942 direct to projector. Verify there is picture. Unplug HDMI cable. Plug HDMI cable back in. Is there picture? That is simulating (not exactly one for one, but good enough for testing purposes) what the switch is doing. If 942 has trouble with hot plug, it will probably have problems with most switchers.

Another thing to try, pull the power plug on the STB, have the STB be the only device connected on the switch. Turn on projector. Plug STB power plug back in. Verify picture. Plug second HDMI device into switch. Turn on second device. Switch 5x1 switcher to second device. Switch back to STB. The purpose of this test is to see whether it helps to have the 942 STB connected to the display and selected as active input when it is first powered on.

There are a whole bunch of cable set top boxes which won't work with the fancy HDMI-capable receivers from Yamaha and Denon. Yamaha and Denon websites advise their customers this is not a problem with their receivers, it is a problem with the STB not supporting repeaters. You can read about the woes in this thread (there are many, but I just picked one)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651369

I know you do not have a cable STB, but my impression so far is lots of STBs whether cable or satellite have issues with switches. Some can be worked around. Some require an update either on the STB or the switch.

Alternatively does the 942 have a discrete output resolution IR command. ie instead of going into the HD menu, can you just press a single IR command on your remote to change the video format? If so, you can work around this by programming some output resolution changes into your macro for switching devices.

Another thing to try, instead of changing output resolution, what happens if you turn the unit on/off? Does it reacquire picture then? That might be easier than switching output formats if it works.

Try this experiment and see what happens. Remove the 5x1 switch. Connect the 942 direct to projector. Verify there is picture. Unplug HDMI cable. Plug HDMI cable back in. Is there picture? That is simulating (not exactly one for one, but good enough for testing purposes) what the switch is doing. If 942 has trouble with hot plug, it will probably have problems with most switchers.

Another thing to try, pull the power plug on the STB, have the STB be the only device connected on the switch. Turn on projector. Plug STB power plug back in. Verify picture. Plug second HDMI device into switch. Turn on second device. Switch 5x1 switcher to second device. Switch back to STB. The purpose of this test is to see whether it helps to have the 942 STB connected to the display and selected as active input when it is first powered on.

There are a whole bunch of cable set top boxes which won't work with the fancy HDMI-capable receivers from Yamaha and Denon. Yamaha and Denon websites advise their customers this is not a problem with their receivers, it is a problem with the STB not supporting repeaters. You can read about the woes in this thread (there are many, but I just picked one)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651369

I know you do not have a cable STB, but my impression so far is lots of STBs whether cable or satellite have issues with switches. Some can be worked around. Some require an update either on the STB or the switch.

Alternatively does the 942 have a discrete output resolution IR command. ie instead of going into the HD menu, can you just press a single IR command on your remote to change the video format? If so, you can work around this by programming some output resolution changes into your macro for switching devices.

Another thing to try, instead of changing output resolution, what happens if you turn the unit on/off? Does it reacquire picture then? That might be easier than switching output formats if it works.

Thank you for your help !

I have made all testing you described and that seems to be the 942 which does not work with any intermediate module. exept when we start it up when his HDMI outpout is active on the display. I will send an email to my satellite television provider for he corrects this problem by a firmware upgrade of the receiver.

Still thank you!

now that we know dish 942 has a problem, the next question; has anyone tried this switch with a hd tivo hr10 250?

now that we know dish 942 has a problem, the next question; has anyone tried this switch with a hd tivo hr10 250?

Yes, I do. It works fine in my setup. I can switch thru all of my devices without having to power cycle or disconnect/reconnect anything.

I have the following:

Panasonic 50U
H20
HR10-250
LG 511 UpConverter
Harmony 880

I don't know why auto select would affect your discrete input select IR. The switch still honors discrete input select as long as the input you are selecting has active signal.

Expidia says: What I dont want to have to do is deal with logitech tech support until all is working before I call them to make the changs to the 880.

From what I see all components have to be "on" in order for the switch to change inputs as we discussed above (at least with my component brands and config.)

I don't want my system to work that way, That's why I bought the 880 in the first place to only turn on the components I want to use. Otherwise all components like the DVD are constantly turning on and off. So is my Panny XR55. IMO if this is my office PC than it's better to leave it on all the time. It's the sudden heating up and cooling off of the circuits that shorten thier life. I don't want my HT components turning on and off all the time.

Most of the time I only turn on the TV and cable box and listen thru the TV speakers, like listening to Fox news (I don't need dolby digital to hear the news).

When I waited the 78 days for this new supposedly enhanced 5/1 version I was under the impression that there was an option to turn the auto active input feature off. I think Sean told me that or I read it in the threads that it was one of the features.

I emailed Sean at the same time I posted my question in an above thread.

Here is his response:
"Factory engineers are still working on it. For the shipments that we've got recently, this change hasn't been made. Please advise us how you'd like to do. We're willing to accept your return if you can't use it. Truly sorry for any inconvenience it may cause you."

I would have liked to have known that this feature that was supposed to be there was "missing"! I knew that was going to be an issue for some of us that use the 880. Or anyone that does not want to turn all components on in order to change the input using the 5/1 HDMI switch. Some of you won't find this an issue but it is with my Panny plasma.

I'll have my Son stop by next week and see if he can figure a work around. But I doubt we can.

I also don't see and on/off switch on the remote or the box. This is another feature the new switch should have but does not. The 880 should be able to turn the power to the switch on and off. I don't feel comfortable leaving it on all the time so I can come home and find just the chimney standing :eek: . I don't have a lot of faith in cheap wall warts made in China (it is nice and small though, runs warm not hot, for now).

But it has two green lights on all the time which is annouying in my bedroom it being "on" all the time. Might be due to: in order to hold the handshake the unit has to be on all the time thus no on/off switch.

I'll try a work around, it will probably work OK for many of you, I see no picture issues like I had with the 4/1 switch and it passes thru the 1080 signal with my components fine.


Sean has no idea what it takes to get the 880 remote working correctly. Each time I have to make adjustments in the configuration, I have to call Logitech. This is not something that level one support can handle. Luckily, this time around, I was smart enough not to have wasted my time called Logitech yet again, because with the 5/1 missing the turn off auto active input feature.

So once again, If want to I'll have to await for yet a "third" switch (another "enhanced" model?) from Sean with yet another elusive moving ETA?

Seems we are being used a testors for Sean's switches, until he gets it right.
That old saying holds true here that "the leading edge of techology (HDMI) is also the bleeding edge (my wasted time invested) :(

Expidia says: What I dont want to have to do is deal with logitech tech support until all is working before I call them to make the changs to the 880.

From what I see all components have to be "on" in order for the switch to change inputs as we discussed above (at least with my component brands and config.)
...
I was under the impression that there was an option to turn the auto active input feature off.

The confusion is you are writing "auto active input feature" when you actually mean "active signal detect".

There are 2 features in the switch that are easily mixed up (and are a little related)

"auto active input" will select the next active device either if the current active device loses signal (ie gets turned off) or if there are no devices turned on and one input gets signal (ie only one device is turned on).

"active signal detect" is a feature that only allows you to select inputs with active signal. While this makes it easier to cycle through active signals, it also has the downside that you must have the device turned on before you can select that input as active.

"active signal detect" is the one causing you issues, not "auto active input"

You don't need to have all devices turned on for your activity based system to work. You can either:
1) only have one device turned on at a single time
2) turn on the device first than select the input rather than the other way around

I have a JP1 programmable remote which I have set up for activity based use just like your Harmony so I'm very aware of what you are talking about. I have no issues with either feature in terms of activity based use and input selection. I don't need to have all my devices turned on sucking up power. I don't need to turn devices off/on as I switch inputs to guarantee only one device is turned on.

Basically the way I set up my activity based system, all devices needed for a particular activity get turned on first, then only after that the input selection happens. After years of dealing with remotes and lots of equipment I have found this to be the ideal order for things to happen. The reason being there are many devices which do not respond to input select when they are first turned on. They need to wait a second or two before they accept IR commands. If they are already on, then they accept IR immediately.

Examples of this include some TVs and some home theatre receivers. When activity based remote systems go to turn these on for the first time, they need to delay sending the discrete input commands or they will be ignored by the devices.

Harmony must have to deal with this issue already because it is not possible to do activity based on all systems without accounting for devices which do not accept IR immediately upon being turned on.

w/r/t the monoprice switch being on all the time and drawing power, really I think that is a non-issue. The thing pulls practically no power, 2 watts when I measure it. At such low current pull, my wall wart is only slightly warm, almost not detectable. Look at your other wall warts, they are almost all made in China and they are a lot warmer than the one being used by the switch.

w/r/t the lights being on, I think it would be nice to have a mode which disables the lights or reduced brightness, but it isn't a showstopper for me. I have to deal with lights from almost all my devices, clock from the VCR, DVD player with the red power light that turns green when you turn it on, etc. Certainly I understand if you home theatre is totally dark the lights would be annoying, but if it were me, that would be something easily worked around either by placing the switch in a location less visible or with some black tape covering the LEDs.

It sounds to me your biggest concern is that Harmony 880 activity based system being impeded by active signal detection. As I mentioned Harmony must be able to deal with the situation because other devices exist which do not respond to IR until a short delay after being turned on. If you pursue it with them I'm they will be able to figure it out. On my JP1 system I have an existence proof that everything can work seamlessly even with active signal detect enabled.

The simplest workaround is to simply press the activity button a second time after everything turns on.

The confusion is you are writing "auto active input feature" when you actually mean "active signal detect".

There are 2 features in the switch that are easily mixed up (and are a little related)

"auto active input" will select the next active device either if the current active device loses signal (ie gets turned off) or if there are no devices turned on and one input gets signal (ie only one device is turned on).

"active signal detect" is a feature that only allows you to select inputs with active signal. While this makes it easier to cycle through active signals, it also has the downside that you must have the device turned on before you can select that input as active.

"active signal detect" is the one causing you issues, not "auto active input"

You don't need to have all devices turned on for your activity based system to work. You can either:
1) only have one device turned on at a single time
2) turn on the device first than select the input rather than the other way around

I have a JP1 programmable remote which I have set up for activity based use just like your Harmony so I'm very aware of what you are talking about. I have no issues with either feature in terms of activity based use and input selection. I don't need to have all my devices turned on sucking up power. I don't need to turn devices off/on as I switch inputs to guarantee only one device is turned on.

Basically the way I set up my activity based system, all devices needed for a particular activity get turned on first, then only after that the input selection happens. After years of dealing with remotes and lots of equipment I have found this to be the ideal order for things to happen. The reason being there are many devices which do not respond to input select when they are first turned on. They need to wait a second or two before they accept IR commands. If they are already on, then they accept IR immediately.

Examples of this include some TVs and some home theatre receivers. When activity based remote systems go to turn these on for the first time, they need to delay sending the discrete input commands or they will be ignored by the devices.

Harmony must have to deal with this issue already because it is not possible to do activity based on all systems without accounting for devices which do not accept IR immediately upon being turned on.

w/r/t the monoprice switch being on all the time and drawing power, really I think that is a non-issue. The thing pulls practically no power, 2 watts when I measure it. At such low current pull, my wall wart is only slightly warm, almost not detectable. Look at your other wall warts, they are almost all made in China and they are a lot warmer than the one being used by the switch.

w/r/t the lights being on, I think it would be nice to have a mode which disables the lights or reduced brightness, but it isn't a showstopper for me. I have to deal with lights from almost all my devices, clock from the VCR, DVD player with the red power light that turns green when you turn it on, etc. Certainly I understand if you home theatre is totally dark the lights would be annoying, but if it were me, that would be something easily worked around either by placing the switch in a location less visible or with some black tape covering the LEDs.

It sounds to me your biggest concern is that Harmony 880 activity based system being impeded by active signal detection. As I mentioned Harmony must be able to deal with the situation because other devices exist which do not respond to IR until a short delay after being turned on. If you pursue it with them I'm they will be able to figure it out. On my JP1 system I have an existence proof that everything can work seamlessly even with active signal detect enabled.

The simplest workaround is to simply press the activity button a second time after everything turns on.

Thanks for your concise reply sfhub. I'm at odds here because it seems Sean is using you as a tester and I have no where to go on how to figure out how to work around this issue because Logitec is going to be useless at level one on this and I don't feel it's their problem as you do anyway. Logitec is very responsive to these issues. I had hours of time invested with them on the phone while I was trying to get the 880 to work with my 8300HD and Panny 50U.

I complained to them that Panny has a huge share of the plasma market and this TV was $3600. If they can't get their software to work with Panny products at these price levels than they are in trouble. The level two support guy said they have recorded a number of complaints in the Panny input switching issues with the 880 that I was having and re-wrote the software for these models from those complaints.

He updated my remote with this new software and it worked perfectly the very first time. So for those of you with Panny's you might want to have them update your software if you had input switching problems where only they could set the remote up from their end correctly by using discreet codes. One should only have to put in their model # of the components and the 880 should work and now it does at least with my setup.

But I'm not about to go through this again for Logitec to reprogram for the Monoprice switch that should have the active input option (or whatever the correct terminology is) turned off feature built in. The only way this switch will work for me with the 880 is going to be using the discreet buttons.

I was just in the middle of reading back through your great review to see if you had caught the active port problem and just saw you replied to my post as I was going to update my thread and you actually did catch it . . .

Your quote: Switch has an "autoscan" feature which automatically selects an active input. In practice this works nice when you are only using 2 devices. For 5 devices it may be simpler to have this feature
disabled (which is not currently an option).

But it was "supposed" to be an option which was my understanding because I knew this was going to cause issues with 880.

Logitec is not about to re-progam their software for the few monoprice switches that will be sold as shortly, buying an external HDMI switch for new TV owners will be a mute issue because the new Panny's due out this month are going to have two HDMI ports anyway and a cheaper price tag from what I thought I read.
They should have always had at least two IMO. An external switch will of course still be needed if one has more HDMI devices, so that's why I figured a working 5/1 would be a keeper for me.

I might even sell the 3 month old Panny I have and buy the new model. Supposed to have billions more colors too in addition to the two HDMI ports. At least I won't have to deal with external switches.
My guess is just with when USB was introduced with it's many early problems, HDMI is here to stay, especially if it thwarts copying issues.

On the lights, I immediately covered each light with some pieces of limo 80% dark limo tint film that I've used to cover other lights with. This was never a deal breaker for me, I mention it so Sean can ask for future models to have them turned off if we want to since the unit is on all the time anyway.

As to the wall warts, I've already had one burn up on me with another device so now I'm gun shy of the cheapy ones. If the switch does not have to be on all the time I'd feel better with it off. We are not talking of a $400 switch here (that probably comes with a cheap wall wart too!)

Your last comment of that I will have to just use the small remote here to switch the input negates the whole purpose of spending the $ for the Harmony 880 doesn't it? I'm dealing with a Wife here to and my whole purpose is to simplify everything down to the push of one button for her. This is just what I had until I've re-introduced the monoprice switch once again.

I've disconnected it, will pack it up and probably await the next version. But this is growing old fast, doesn't seem all worth it anymore for the small improvement in pic quality I get with my cable box running thru HDMI to the Panny.

Thx again for you replies as it's been a real time saver for me. I should have picked up on where you said the active input off option was missing on the switch you tested before I agreed to let Sean send another one.

I think all of the above issues will only be a problem for some of us using it with the 880. Other than this issue the switch worked flawlessly for me.

I have no where to go on how to figure out how to work around this issue because Logitec is going to be useless at level one on this and I don't feel it's their problem as you do anyway.
...
Logitec is not about to re-progam their software
...
Your last comment of that I will have to just use the small remote here to switch the input negates the whole purpose of spending the $ for the Harmony 880 doesn't it? I'm dealing with a Wife here to and my whole purpose is to simplify everything down to the push of one button for her. This is just what I had until I've re-introduced the monoprice switch once again.
...
I think all of the above issues will only be a problem for some of us using it with the 880. Other than this issue the switch worked flawlessly for me.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you completely. Are you saying your Harmony is sending the discrete input select IR to the 5x1 switch and it is being ignored because the device is not sending active signal yet, or are you saying Harmony doesn't recognize the IR command set of the monoprice 5x1 switch and you are presuming there will be a problem with the active signal detect feature so you don't want to go through and ask Logitech to add a new device?

If the latter, could you describe the problem you suppose will happen when the Harmony is programmed (by Logitech) to recognize the 5x1 switch? You seem so adamant that there is a big problem and in my mind it is just a reordering of IR issue so I'm thinking you must be thinking of some problem I'm not understanding.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is Logitech's "problem" What I said was Logitech has to deal with this same type of situation all the time. I have an Onkyo receiver which doesn't respond to discrete input select until 2 seconds after being turned on. I have a Sharp LCD TV which doesn't respond to discrete input select until 5 seconds after being turned on. I have a Panasonic VCR which doesn't respond to discrete inputs until 2 seconds after being turned on. My solution when I programmed my remotes is basically add "if-then" conditional statements to my macros. If the device is first being turned on, delay sending the discrete input select IR command by X number of seconds. If the device is already on, send the IR immediately.

I don't know how much "reprogramming" it takes for Logitech. It would seem to me they have to deal with this situation all the time so the primitives for delaying sending discrete input select for a particular device are already present because it needs to be reused so often.

Maybe you can explain to me how your Harmony is working with the monoprice 5x1 switch right now. Does Logitech have a preprogrammed device that works with monoprice switch or did you learn the IR commands. If you learned the commands, what did you learn, the discrete 1-5 or the input cycle?

When you program an "activity" in Harmony, how does it decide what order to send the IR commands? How did you add the monoprice IR commands to the list of IR sent by your Harmony?

For example, if Harmony currently sends discrete 1 to 5x1 switch, turns on TV, turns on DVD, I'm suggesting if you can change the order into turn on DVD, turn on TV, then send discrete 1 to 5x1 switch then everything could work right.

Could you take a little time and just let me know when you select a particular activity in Harmony, what is the order of IR commands Harmony is sending out? Regardless of whether there can be a workaround for the monoprice switch, I would be interested in how the Harmony is functioning right now with your system.

"Your last comment of that I will have to just use the small remote here to switch the input negates the whole purpose of spending the $ for the Harmony 880 doesn't it? I'm dealing with a Wife here to and my whole purpose is to simplify everything down to the push of one button for her. This is just what I had until I've re-introduced the monoprice switch once again."

I also think you misunderstood my last comment. I wasn't suggesting you use the monoprice remote at all. What I was suggesting is that since your Harmony is presumably sending the correct discrete input select to the 5x1 switch but it is being ignored because that device hasn't been turned on yet, if you simply press that activity button again on the Harmony remote, it will send the discrete input select to the 5x1 switch a second time (as well as discrete on TV, receiver, etc.), except this time the device would be producing active signal so the 5x1 switch would no longer ignore the IR.

Basically what happens with your Harmony when you press the DVD activity button? I would think it sends discrete on to TV, discrete on to receiver, discrete on to DVD player, discrete HDMI select to TV, discrete DVD input select to receiver, discrete input 1 select to 5x1 switch. Well what if one of those IR is missed, let's say because the remote was obstructed from IR reaching the device by the coffee table. Well you just select the "DVD activity" again and the Harmony will resend all the same IR as above, except the second time around, the IR for the 5x1 swtich will be accepted because the DVD player has already been turned on the previous round.

If I'm misunderstanding how your Harmony remote is working please let me know. Obviously it would be simplest if the 5x1 switch allowed you to disable the active signal detect feature (and I've requested that they offer this option) but I'm trying to point out to you that there could be effective ways to workaround the problem to the point it is no longer an issue.

In my case, using JP1 programming I have very granular control of how my remote functions. Basically what you refer to as "Logitech reprogramming" is what I do with my remote, except I'm the person doing the programming. In my case, I've been able to reorder IR commands so that the active signal detect is not an issue.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you completely. Are you saying your Harmony is sending the discrete input select IR to the 5x1 switch and it is being ignored because the device is not sending active signal yet, or are you saying Harmony doesn't recognize the IR command set of the monoprice 5x1 switch and you are presuming there will be a problem with the active signal detect feature so you don't want to go through and ask Logitech to add a new device?

If the latter, could you describe the problem you suppose will happen when the Harmony is programmed (by Logitech) to recognize the 5x1 switch? You seem so adamant that there is a big problem and in my mind it is just a reordering of IR issue so I'm thinking you must be thinking of some problem I'm not understanding.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is Logitech's "problem" What I said was Logitech has to deal with this same type of situation all the time. I have an Onkyo receiver which doesn't respond to discrete input select until 2 seconds after being turned on. I have a Sharp LCD TV which doesn't respond to discrete input select until 5 seconds after being turned on. I have a Panasonic VCR which doesn't respond to discrete inputs until 2 seconds after being turned on. My solution when I programmed my remotes is basically add "if-then" conditional statements to my macros. If the device is first being turned on, delay sending the discrete input select IR command by X number of seconds. If the device is already on, send the IR immediately.

I don't know how much "reprogramming" it takes for Logitech. It would seem to me they have to deal with this situation all the time so the primitives for delaying sending discrete input select for a particular device are already present because it needs to be reused so often.

Maybe you can explain to me how your Harmony is working with the monoprice 5x1 switch right now. Does Logitech have a preprogrammed device that works with monoprice switch or did you learn the IR commands. If you learned the commands, what did you learn, the discrete 1-5 or the input cycle?

When you program an "activity" in Harmony, how does it decide what order to send the IR commands? How did you add the monoprice IR commands to the list of IR sent by your Harmony?

For example, if Harmony currently sends discrete 1 to 5x1 switch, turns on TV, turns on DVD, I'm suggesting if you can change the order into turn on DVD, turn on TV, then send discrete 1 to 5x1 switch then everything could work right.

Could you take a little time and just let me know when you select a particular activity in Harmony, what is the order of IR commands Harmony is sending out? Regardless of whether there can be a workaround for the monoprice switch, I would be interested in how the Harmony is functioning right now with your system.

"Your last comment of that I will have to just use the small remote here to switch the input negates the whole purpose of spending the $ for the Harmony 880 doesn't it? I'm dealing with a Wife here to and my whole purpose is to simplify everything down to the push of one button for her. This is just what I had until I've re-introduced the monoprice switch once again."

I also think you misunderstood my last comment. I wasn't suggesting you use the monoprice remote at all. What I was suggesting is that since your Harmony is presumably sending the correct discrete input select to the 5x1 switch but it is being ignored because that device hasn't been turned on yet, if you simply press that activity button again on the Harmony remote, it will send the discrete input select to the 5x1 switch a second time (as well as discrete on TV, receiver, etc.), except this time the device would be producing active signal so the 5x1 switch would no longer ignore the IR.

Basically what happens with your Harmony when you press the DVD activity button? I would think it sends discrete on to TV, discrete on to receiver, discrete on to DVD player, discrete HDMI select to TV, discrete DVD input select to receiver, discrete input 1 select to 5x1 switch. Well what if one of those IR is missed, let's say because the remote was obstructed from IR reaching the device by the coffee table. Well you just select the "DVD activity" again and the Harmony will resend all the same IR as above, except the second time around, the IR for the 5x1 switch will be accepted because the DVD player has already been turned on the previous round.

If I'm misunderstanding how your Harmony remote is working please let me know. Obviously it would be simplest if the 5x1 switch allowed you to disable the active signal detect feature (and I've requested that they offer this option) but I'm trying to point out to you that there could be effective ways to workaround the problem to the point it is no longer an issue.

In my case, using JP1 programming I have very granular control of how my remote functions. Basically what you refer to as "Logitech reprogramming" is what I do with my remote, except I'm the person doing the programming. In my case, I've been able to reorder IR commands so that the active signal detect is not an issue.

Thx sfhub, I've disconnected all for now (it was driving my Wife crazy) until my Son comes next week to help me tweak my system so I my Wife can watch TV without the stereo (audio thru TV speakers) and I can listen to TV with dolby without having to push more buttons. The Harmony does this great for me now but introducing another HDMI component messes me up all over again. So once I tweak that I'll try the switch again. There might be a work around but I shouldn't have to go through all this effort if the 5/1 was shipped with a disable feature as I expected it to have. I would prefer to swap it out to head off any future issues.

The Harmony adds the Monoprice into the activity section and learns each button on the original 5/1's remote. This is all easy enough to do on the website. But the 880's really quirky with certain devices due to delays and such and the only way to get it working is to call their level two support. They can usually get it going by making changes on their end and then you update the 880.

I suppose someone like yourself could learn how to do it on our end but it's over my head and honestly it's a waste of my time. I know I can call them now but I'd have to do it all over again after my Son solves my other issue. And I'd have to do it once again after yet the 3rd switch comes. I've learned by experience that if you don't get to speak to level two they will eat up 1-2 hours of your time before they switch you up a level.

This is already becoming a second career for me which I was trying to avoid. I'm not into software tweaking anymore as I have other interests (sleeping would be one of them :D ).

I'll post back for your help probably after Sean ships me a new switch, I add it to the activities and do my followup call to Logitec. if that doesn't work. . . .

I'll let you know what happens. I'm sure my situation is unique due to the combo of the 880, Panny 50u and an 8300HD DVR and the disable feature would solve it instantly without all this extra work around attempts.

Thx again for the courtesy of your replies!

The Harmony adds the Monoprice into the activity section and learns each button on the original 5/1's remote. This is all easy enough to do on the website. But the 880's really quirky with certain devices due to delays and such and the only way to get it working is to call their level two support. They can usually get it going by making changes on their end and then you update the 880.

On the advice of a friend, I created an account for myself on Harmony's website and tried the "customize activity" wizard.

I don't have a Harmony remote to confirm whether it works, but it appeared to be relatively easy to configure the Harmony remote to work with the 5x1 switch.

This is what I did:
Under "Settings Confirmation" page it asks:
Are these the correct settings for this Activity?

I selected:
Yes, but I want to add more control of options and devices for this Activity.

I was presented with:
"Additional Devices" screen
I selected [save]
I was presented with various input selection pages to which I just answered [Next>]
Then I reached the Custom Actions screen.
I selected add action for Monoprice audio video switch (actually I used Zektor switch, but in your case it would be Monoprice switch)

Add action for [monoprice5x1] when activity starts [Add>]

Select an action to add for your monoprice5x1:
Send this infrared delay [2 seconds]
[Next>]


Add action for [monoprice5x1] when activity starts [Add>]

Select an action to add for your monoprice5x1:
Send this infrared Command [Input 1]
[Next>]


After doing these 2 steps, you will presumably have added 2 second delay at the end of your "DVD activity" after which the Harmony remote will send the IR command to monoprice5x1 to select input1. This will have given enough time for the DVD device to have turned on and be detected as active signal by monoprice5x1. With experimentation you could potentially cut the delay down to much less (the range of delays you can choose are 100ms, 200ms, 500ms, 1sec, 2sec, 5sec, 10sec)

I'm about 95% sure with these few extra steps, the current monoprice5x1 switch will work fine with your Harmony 880 activity based remote.

[QUOTE=sfhub]On the advice of a friend, I created an account for myself on Harmony's website and tried the "customize activity" wizard.

I don't have a Harmony remote to confirm whether it works, but it appeared to be relatively easy to configure the Harmony remote to work with the 5x1 switch.

This is what I did:

I'll try these settings again after my Son comes over (I already deleted the one I did when the switch first came).

I know it works with the 880 because another poster had already learned the commands with the new switch's remote and he said it was working for him with his setup.

But I need to get everything right with the HDMI and other cableing for my audio problem before I try and tweak the switch into the setup again.

You are great though. That was ingenious of you going to the site and working the software. It looks simple enough to do until you get to the "now it's time to test your remote" part and it won't work right.

But I'll try those exact steps probably Tues night because Logitech's tech support closes at 10 pm and I don't think I'll have my cableing setup finshed by early enough on Mon eve.

If I have a problem with your settings and they won't put me thru to level two I'd like to email you my user name and password for the logitech site and maybe you could look at it my settings if it won't work? Sometimes level two won't get back to you for a day!
Thx sfhub

If I have a problem with your settings and they won't put me thru to level two I'd like to email you my user name and password for the logitech site and maybe you could look at it my settings if it won't work? Sometimes level two won't get back to you for a day!
Thx sfhub
You can PM (private message) me the info on AVS forum. I'll likely respond in a more timely manner than Logitech.

Now that I've played with the harmony config software I have a pretty good grasp of how to customize the config to address your monoprice issues. I could probably even address your wife watching TV with audio through TV speakers and you watching TV with dolby audio through receiver.

One way is to create 2 activities. One for your Wife and one for you. Once you have the 2 activities you can define which components are on/off for your wife differently than which components are on/off for your activity. Similarly you would adjust the volume controls for each activity, TV volume control for your wife's activity and Receiver volume control for your activity.

You can PM (private message) me the info on AVS forum. I'll likely respond in a more timely manner than Logitech.

Now that I've played with the harmony config software I have a pretty good grasp of how to customize the config to address your monoprice issues. I could probably even address your wife watching TV with audio through TV speakers and you watching TV with dolby audio through receiver.

One way is to create 2 activities. One for your Wife and one for you. Once you have the 2 activities you can define which components are on/off for your wife differently than which components are on/off for your activity. Similarly you would adjust the volume controls for each activity, TV volume control for your wife's activity and Receiver volume control for your activity.

I created the two activities the first day I received the remote. It works fine that way. My problem is now that I add the switch so I could introduce another HDMI component (the Time Warner HDMI DVR) it has a setting for audio out HDMI or dolby digital out.

It might just be I have too many audio cables plugged in at the same time when I had the HDMI hooked up through the 5/1 switch and they extra ones were shutting down audio out?

If HDMI is chosen I don't get dolby 5/1 audio, but the TV speakers are active. If I leave the box's remote setting on dolby the TV speakers are off.

It's a pain having to manually switch the audio settings around and very confusing for my Wife. . . If I leave the dolby setting on last, she can't use the TV speakers later.

I've isolated down to a Time Warner issue with the 8300HD, I don't think one can have two active audio ports on at the same time with this DVR. I don't use the audio part of the HDMI cable as I'm running an optical cable to the amp. but I think as long as the HDMI cable is plugged in it automatically shuts down the optical cable that was giving me Dolby 5/1 or something similar to this.

I bought the Athena Micro 5 speaker system when I bought the TV and forgot over the past month that I was not even listening to 5/1 (I was listening to the enhanced XR55 synthesisers) because I forgot to manually change the DVR settings back to dolby digital out! The DVD is always 5/1 so there is no problem with that component, only the DVR is giving me audio issues. I need to solve that first before I re-program the 880.
Actually, my Wife just said my Son is coming over tonight. Sometimes a second mind can spot where I'm not seeing the solution.

I created the two activities the first day I received the remote. It works fine that way. My problem is now that I add the switch so I could introduce another HDMI component (the Time Warner HDMI DVR) it has a setting for audio out HDMI or dolby digital out.

It might just be I have too many audio cables plugged in at the same time when I had the HDMI hooked up through the 5/1 switch and they extra ones were shutting down audio out?

If HDMI is chosen I don't get dolby 5/1 audio, but the TV speakers are active. If I leave the box's remote setting on dolby the TV speakers are off.

It's a pain having to manually switch the audio settings around and very confusing for my Wife. . . If I leave the dolby setting on last, she can't use the TV speakers later.

I've isolated down to a Time Warner issue with the 8300HD, I don't think one can have two active audio ports on at the same time with this DVR. I don't use the audio part of the HDMI cable as I'm running an optical cable to the amp. but I think as long as the HDMI cable is plugged in it automatically shuts down the optical cable that was giving me Dolby 5/1 or something similar to this.

I bought the Athena Micro 5 speaker system when I bought the TV and forgot over the past month that I was not even listening to 5/1 (I was listening to the enhanced XR55 synthesisers) because I forgot to manually change the DVR settings back to dolby digital out! The DVD is always 5/1 so there is no problem with that component, only the DVR is giving me audio issues. I need to solve that first before I re-program the 880.
Actually, my Wife just said my Son is coming over tonight. Sometimes a second mind can spot where I'm not seeing the solution.
You may not be using the audio section of the HDMI cable, but your wife is using it in her configuration, which doesn't use the receiver. I think you already realize this but just worded it from your perspective.

I believe you are correct regarding 8300HD being the source of the issue. Motorola cable DVR boxes have a similar problem which was fixed in firmware but not all regions have the firmware fix (including my region). The problem with Motorola box is if you use HDMI connection (regardless of whether a switch is involved), the DVR and TV negotiate 2-channel PCM during HDMI autoconfig. There is a bug in the firmware that forces the optical/coax digital output to also get forced to 2-channel PCM if the HDMI connection negotiates 2-channel PCM. Well of course if you connect the PVR to TV it is going to negotiate 2-channel PCM because the TV has 2 speakers and that is all it supports.

I believe you have already discovered, this is a problem with how the HDMI and digital audio ports of the 8300HD interact and not a problem with the switch or cables. The same problem should happen even if you didn't use the switch but used the HDMI connection of the 8300HD. I'm guessing prior to the 5x1 switch you were using the HDMI connection for the DVD player and component connections for the 8300HD, thereby avoiding the HDMI audio and digital audio output mutual exclusivity problem?

One possible workaround is to add custom actions to your TV activity and your wife's TV activity to automate the process of switching dolby and HDMI audio.

Another workaround is to just have your wife use the receiver and dolby digital to watch TV.

A third workaround is to continue using component connections from 8300HD to TV, but then that would get rid of your need for a switch in the first place (you wouldn't be the first person to find bugs in their cable box firmware caused them to pun on the idea of all digital connections)

This particular problem I think would affect you the same even if you purchased a new TV with 2 built-in HDMI ports because it is a problem with the 8300HD.

Could you list the remote control commands you need to press to change audio from dolby to HDMI audio (and back to dolby). Once you do that, it can be assessed how feasible it is to have the process automated by Harmony activity custom actions.

You may not be using the audio section of the HDMI cable, but your wife is using it in her configuration, which doesn't use the receiver. I think you already realize this but just worded it from your perspective.

I believe you are correct regarding 8300HD being the source of the issue. Motorola cable DVR boxes have a similar problem which was fixed in firmware but not all regions have the firmware fix (including my region). The problem with Motorola box is if you use HDMI connection (regardless of whether a switch is involved), the DVR and TV negotiate 2-channel PCM during HDMI autoconfig. There is a bug in the firmware that forces the optical/coax digital output to also get forced to 2-channel PCM if the HDMI connection negotiates 2-channel PCM. Well of course if you connect the PVR to TV it is going to negotiate 2-channel PCM because the TV has 2 speakers and that is all it supports.

** I'll check my firmware numbers on the 8300HD and see which one it is. It's somewhat useless to call my Time Warner tech support because most a very unknowledgeable when it comes to HDMI and the various ports. Most of what they tell you when you ask about a port they give you "I didn't even know that port was active yet? and we don't support it anyway". Once in a while you hit a good tech person but never on the weekends.

I believe you have already discovered, this is a problem with how the HDMI and digital audio ports of the 8300HD interact and not a problem with the switch or cables. The same problem should happen even if you didn't use the switch but used the HDMI connection of the 8300HD. I'm guessing prior to the 5x1 switch you were using the HDMI connection for the DVD player and component connections for the 8300HD, thereby avoiding the HDMI audio and digital audio output mutual exclusivity problem?

** I know the 5/1 switch has nothing to do with my audio issue, that's why I was trying to get everything right before putting the switch in-line.
I have rolled everything back to DVD uses HDMI and Cable uses components as before. Until I can figure out if I'm using too many cables or I just can't get it to do what I want it to with the Panny and the 8300HD using HDMI.

** You see I have the same 8300HD in my living room HT with a Sony rear projector and I can listen to either or! It's the HDMI that's causing me problems. My Son's not coming tonight to check it out, now it's Mon night.

One possible workaround is to add custom actions to your TV activity and your wife's TV activity to automate the process of switching dolby and HDMI audio.

** the Harmony 800 is very glitchy anyway. I'm trying to avoid hitting it with a lot of delays, switches etc. It gets annoying when ever it misses a command and I have to start answering questions and resynchronizing it.

Another workaround is to just have your wife use the receiver and dolby digital to watch TV.

** don't want the extra wear and tear on it. She just falls asleep with it on all night. I think the 880 can be programmed for sleep all mode, maybe?

A third workaround is to continue using component connections from 8300HD to TV, but then that would get rid of your need for a switch in the first place (you wouldn't be the first person to find bugs in their cable box firmware caused them to pun on the idea of all digital connections)

** AHHHH get rid of the need for the switch, now were talk'in. For the slight and I mean slight diff in pic quality, to me it's probably not worth all the time and effort. HDMI is still not ready for prime time, but it's close. It's the manufacturers of the HDMI products are still just behind the 8 ball with this new technology.
This is why I cxl'd my Panny amp the XR70 with HDMI and went with the no HDMI XR55 model (great amp). The XR70 HDMI feature is more of a gimmick right now and with no switching feature it would be useless for my needs.

This particular problem I think would affect you the same even if you purchased a new TV with 2 built-in HDMI ports because it is a problem with the 8300HD.

** this is true, that's why I'd wait for feedback from owners of each before I swapped it out. On second thought, the 50 Panny Plasma would look real nice in my bathroom :D

Could you list the remote control commands you need to press to change audio from dolby to HDMI audio (and back to dolby). Once you do that, it can be assessed how feasible it is to have the process automated by Harmony activity custom actions.

** I was thinking of trying to program these in to see if it would work with the 880 but still know I'm asking for trouble with too many commands for it to handle. I'm trying to KISS (keep it simple stupid).
But here are the steps:
On the 8300HD remote (Model RT-U61CP-1.6S) Press "settings" button twice>scroll down with arrow button twice (now you are on the audio choice)
press right arrow and you are in a vertical list of 3 choices: Other-HDMI-Dolby Digital (but depending on what it was left on, the list order changes) If your looking for HDMI and it's highlighted (there is nothing to do and press settings again to exit out). If you want to change to Dolby Digital out, you highlight it and press yellow A key (to accept) and then press settings button again to exit out.

So as you see without discrete commands to accomplish this switching I figured it would be a bear to program in (for me anyway, or two hours on the phone with Logitech) due to getting all the delays and stuff correct.

Bottom line is the Harmony 880 does not get the switching right for me enough of the time now so I'm hesitant to give it more commands to screw up.

Funny thing, my Wife this morning asked me about that other 880 in the living room that she never sees me use and wondered if she could have that one for her side of the bed :eek:
She never sees me use it because if I have a choice and I'm watching a movie it's on the new Panny plasma. I supposed one day soon, I'll have to emerge from the bedroom :D

Regarding digital Audio output of source becoming disabled while hdmi is plugged in: The following is just speculation - I wonder what would happen if you introduced a DVI-D or just DVI in the cable path from your source. i.e. use a hdmi to dvi and dvi to hdmi converter in series. This way, the source might realize that only DVI-digital video is being used out of the HDMI port, rather than assuming that video+audio is being used (thereby disabling digital audio out). I am just guessing - I don't know that this would actually work nor that its worth a try.

Regarding digital Audio output of source becoming disabled while hdmi is plugged in: The following is just speculation - I wonder what would happen if you introduced a DVI-D or just DVI in the cable path from your source. i.e. use a hdmi to dvi and dvi to hdmi converter in series. This way, the source might realize that only DVI-digital video is being used out of the HDMI port, rather than assuming that video+audio is being used (thereby disabling digital audio out). I am just guessing - I don't know that this would actually work nor that its worth a try.

This just might work, I thought of this before because since I don't use the audio part of the HDMI cable I was thinking just what you said above. It might fool the Panny's circuit and let the Dolby Digital play thru the HDMI input and I'll still have the vid.

Thanks for this suggestion as I couldn't figure out if there was such a cable since I never have used anything with DVI I was going to ask if this would work. My Son uses the 8300HD by HDMI to DVI to the port on the back of his Sony rear projector. He can play Dolby or thru TV speakers at the same time as I can with my living room setup, but not with the new Panny in the bedroom.

I'm going to pick up a "test" cable at a local BB and if it works order one through Monoprice.

Yo sfhub, What do you think about the possibility of audvid's suggestion working?

Thx audvid

This just might work, I thought of this before because since I don't use the audio part of the HDMI cable I was thinking just what you said above. It might fool the Panny's circuit and let the Dolby Digital play thru the HDMI input and I'll still have the vid.

Thanks for this suggestion as I couldn't figure out if there was such a cable since I never have used anything with DVI I was going to ask if this would work. My Son uses the 8300HD by HDMI to DVI to the port on the back of his Sony rear projector. He can play Dolby or thru TV speakers at the same time as I can with my living room setup, but not with the new Panny in the bedroom.

I'm going to pick up a "test" cable at a local BB and if it works order one through Monoprice.

Yo sfhub, What do you think about the possibility of audvid's suggestion working?

This won't do what you want.

An HDMI cable is the same as a DVI-D cable, just the plugs are different. There aren't separate data channels for audio and video. Audio is carried on the same data lines as video.

The only way for this to work the way you want is if the Panasonic TV had a DVI port instead of the HDMI port you are using. It is the endpoints (source and display) that control whether the connection is HDMI or DVI, not the cable itself.

If your HDMI capable receiver was used as the switch, it could potentially strip out 5.1 from the HDMI and then send PCM to the TV, but if you are using XR55 receiver, you may run into the problem that various versions of 8300HD do not support a repeater setup. The monoprice 5x1 avoids the repeater problem by passing the data through rather than decrypting and resending like the audio receivers do.

You are welcome to try it out, but I can tell you right now, the STB and TV won't be able to tell you are using a DVI cable. It will behave just like you were using HDMI cable.

This won't do what you want.

An HDMI cable is the same as a DVI-D cable, just the plugs are different. There aren't separate data channels for audio and video. Audio is carried on the same data lines as video.

The only way for this to work the way you want is if the Panasonic TV had a DVI port instead of the HDMI port you are using. It is the endpoints (source and display) that control whether the connection is HDMI or DVI, not the cable itself.

If your HDMI capable receiver was used as the switch, it could potentially strip out 5.1 from the HDMI and then send PCM to the TV, but if you are using XR55 receiver, you may run into the problem that various versions of 8300HD do not support a repeater setup. The monoprice 5x1 avoids the repeater problem by passing the data through rather than decrypting and resending like the audio receivers do.

You are welcome to try it out, but I can tell you right now, the STB and TV won't be able to tell you are using a DVI cable. It will behave just like you were using HDMI cable.

Thx sfhub . . . it was worth a thought! At least you just saved me a trip to BB.

My Son was over and it's what I thought . . . My Time Warner cable system's 8300HD won't allow me to play audio through my TV speakers once I plug in the HDMI cable without having to change the HDMI/Dolby Digital settings with the 8300HD's remote each time. I was trying to avoid this for simplicity sake like when we just want to listen to the news etc with out the stereo. I don't want to start changing my Harmony 880's settings around to try and work in the changes I need.

This is nothing to do with the switch. It's a great switch, it's just a personal taste thing that I'm going back to HDMI for the DVD and component for the Cable channels.

So I don't have a need now for the new Monoprice enhanced 5/1 switch which I just received. Too bad cause the picture pass through is perfect now since I exchanged with Sean the 2/1 which gave me issues with my setup.

I'd have to pay shipping back to Sean anyway and I know how hard the 5/1's are to come by so if anyone wants to PM me before I return it to Sean, we can talk!

Follow-up: a pm received and switch is "SOLD" :cool:

My Son was over and it's what I thought . . . My Time Warner cable system's 8300HD won't allow me to play audio through my TV speakers once I plug in the HDMI cable without having to change the HDMI/Dolby Digital settings with the 8300HD's remote each time.
You are probably already aware of this thread, but I ran into it researching 8300HD issues:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

"Audio Out Using HDMI Connection. An HDMI>HDMI or HDMI>DVI connection will automatically select 2 channel stereo if your TV does not support Dolby Digital (DD). In order to restore DD audio out to your receiver, you need to change the automatic setting. Press the Settings button twice and scroll to Audio: Digital Out. Change the setting from HDMI to Dolby Digital. This will force DD audio to the HDMI, as well as the digital/optical audio outs."

Maybe SA and TW will eventually fix the issue if enough people complain.

[QUOTE=sfhub]You are probably already aware of this thread, but I ran into it researching 8300HD issues:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859
you need to change the automatic setting. Press the Settings button twice and scroll to Audio: Digital Out. Change the setting from HDMI to Dolby Digital. This will force DD audio to the HDMI, as well as the digital/optical audio outs."

Yes, these were the steps I gave you yesterday and I know it's going to be a pain to program this into the 880 because I think the list order changes depending on where it left off last. I might be wrong. But for the slight pic improvement in pic quality off cable thru HDMI it's not worth my troubles.

I'll delve back in after as you say SA and TW send thru some updates to correct these problems. I'm sure they will be working on it because as new TV's come thru with multi HDMI ports their help desk is going to go mad :D with so many customers calling in to get their system working right.

Shame to have to give up the Monoprice 5/1 because this one is really sweet :(

I'll keep watching the threads and await someone else to come up with a solution or a TW fix. No biggy, everything is otherwise is excellent with my setup!

Thx sfhub for all your input and offers to help me with programming of the 880. Your the best ;)

If SF is for San Fran (I'm in NY) the next time I'm in San Fran I'll email you and buy you dinner for all your help.

Does anyone know if the upcoming 5x4 switcher splitter is a matrix switch?

Does anyone know if the upcoming 5x4 switcher splitter is a matrix switch?
It is a splitter style switch, not a matrix. You can ask monoprice if they are going to carry matrix-style switch.

Another dissatisfied user......

The unit recognizes my 8300 cable box, but doesn't recognize my Momitsu V800 DVD player (via a DVI to HDMI cable) The input light doesn't light up.

Too bad they couldn't have shaken out the bugs from this unit (turn off autoselect) before shipping. Eventually this will be a great unit for a great price, but right now it is clearly not ready for prime time.

Another dissatisfied user......

The unit recognizes my 8300 cable box, but doesn't recognize my Momitsu V800 DVD player (via a DVI to HDMI cable) The input light doesn't light up.

Too bad they couldn't have shaken out the bugs from this unit (turn off autoselect) before shipping. Eventually this will be a great unit for a great price, but right now it is clearly not ready for prime time.
It isn't the autoselect feature that would be causing your issues, it is the active signal detect feature. The latter feature only allows you to select devices which have active signal. I mentioned in my review they should allow the user to disable this.

The only device I found issue with active signal detect was my MyHD MDP-130 card, and I later found a workaround by using the loopback cable to connect my nVidia card through the MDP-130 DVI port. The MDP-130 is designed as a DVI passthrough device, so some of the signals it only gets from the DVI graphics card being passed through. I normally don't have my DVI graphics connected in passthrough mode, so the lines are missing from the MDP-130 DVI output.

I see this more as a deficiency in the MDP-130 DVI output that is interacting poorly with the active signal detect feature.

No other device I had tested, including Motorola STB, Samsung upconverting DVI DVD player, Panasonic upconverting HDMI DVD player, Radio Shack Accurian ATSC HDTV tuner, and nVidia 6600GT DVI port had problems with signals being detected.

I'm a little surprised the Momitsu isn't being detected. It would be the first standalone device to have this problem. I can understand the MDP-130 problem because of the loopback design, but Momitsu really shouldn't have this problem.

Have you tried different cables? Have you tried pressing the specific discrete input select on the remote for the port the Momitsu is connected to? The light on the 5x1 doesn't indicate whether there is signal or not. It indicates which port is currently active. Have you tried swapping ports or just connecting the Momitsu to port 1 and nothing else on the switch?

I'm not saying you can't have a problem with Momitsu being detected, but it would be strange for a standalone device with no need for passthrough design to be designed in such a fashion that active signal would not be detected by the 5x1.

Perhaps I missed this in all of these posts. Is there a switch that does not require you to use a remote to switch inputs? Is there one that will detect the source and automatically switch to that input?

Perhaps I missed this in all of these posts. Is there a switch that does not require you to use a remote to switch inputs? Is there one that will detect the source and automatically switch to that input?
Yes, the monoprice 5x1 does what you are asking for. If you only have one device active at a time you never need to pick up the remote control. It will switch to the active input automatically. However if you have 2-5 devices active at one time, it cannot read your mind, and you will need to select which one you want to use. If you always turn your devices off and only turn on devices you want to have displayed, the autoselect should work just fine.

There is an issue that some devices do not put out the proper signals to be detected as active, but in my experience it is very rare. I tested a bunch of equipment and only noticed it on an HDTV tuner card for PCs that was using a passthrough design, something not necessary for standalone devices most people would be using.

The Momitsu device mentioned above might be having the same issue, but it is best to have the poster answer some questions posed above before coming to that conclusion.

Perhaps I missed this in all of these posts. Is there a switch that does not require you to use a remote to switch inputs? Is there one that will detect the source and automatically switch to that input? while i don't know your particular application, typically it might actually be easier to program your remote for device selection - particularly if you are using programmable remotes with macro capabilities

sfhub, After searching and reading about this product I can't find anywhere that it does, indeed, automatically detect the source. Do you have a link or anything where I can read additional information?

Well, I wanted to give credit where credit was due. The problem (red sparkles) that I was getting was NOT from the switcher. As a matter of fact it was from the cable, which had been suggested to me in this thread by people obviously much wiser than me. Sean at Monoprice was very helpful and even sent me a free HDMI cable so I could test and find out where the real problem was. GREAT customer service by Monoprice. Additionally, when I told BlueJeansCable about the problem, they also were great and had a no charge replacement cable (even though I was outside of the warranty period) to me in about 2-3 days. I highly recommend both this product, and both of the vendors.

All I can say is after lots of testing, with HDMI, you can have problems *anywhere*, source device, cable, dongles, switches, repeaters, display device, firmware, etc. Never assume a piece of the puzzle is kosher unless you can definitively rule it out. This is for all the vendors, monoprice, bluejeans, gefen, monster, etc. Nobody can test and certify every piece of equipment or cable they sell. Vendors at best test some samples and then depend on manufacturing to produce the same product to tight tolerances. Defects happen to everybody despite how confident marketing may make you feel regarding the product.

Maybe one day with a more mature market and with more interop testing stuff will work better.

In the mean time, it is great that the vendors on this thread like monoprice and bluejeans are great companies to work with and stand behind their products.

sfhub, After searching and reading about this product I can't find anywhere that it does, indeed, automatically detect the source. Do you have a link or anything where I can read additional information?
Why don't you just ask monoprice about the autoscan feature.

I can tell you for sure the feature is in the switch I have and others on this thread can confirm also. I use the feature every day.

I know there was discussion with monoprice to make the feature optional or remove it, but monoprice would know the status of that better than us.

Ordered her today. Guess we'll see when I hook it up. Thanks for the info. :D

Very happy with the switch!

Sources connected to switch
OPPO 971 - DVI-to-HDMI cable
Motorola 3412 - HDMI-to-HDMI

Display
Sharp DT-300 DVI-input connected via 23-ft DVI cable (using a female-DVI-to-male-HDMI) at the switch)

No problems. Even taught my Sony RMAV3100 a mini macro to switch the video switch and the Pioneer 1015 audio input with the device selection keys.

Great value. Would not even consider the higher priced Gefen switch which cost almost as much as the Pioneer 1015 did.

Thank you for your help !

I have made all testing you described and that seems to be the 942 which does not work with any intermediate module. exept when we start it up when his HDMI outpout is active on the display. I will send an email to my satellite television provider for he corrects this problem by a firmware upgrade of the receiver.

Still thank you!

I have an Expressvu 9200 box (basically a Dish 942 repackaged for Bell Expressvu) and experienced exactly the same problem with my brand new Monoprice 5x1 hdmi switch.

Since I only have hdmi running to my remote plasma display, i made a macro
that basically does: Setup, System, HDTV, left, left, up, right, right, OK.

At least this causes the 9200 to come to life so I can use it without having to
go down to the unit and physically reboot it.

What a pain. HDCP is such a consumer unfriendly idea. I'm thinking hd-dvd and
blu-ray will be an whole new world of hurt for the early adopters.

What's really strange about the 9200 sat receiver is that if I unplug it from
the monoprice switch and directly into my 2x1 dtrovision dvi distribution amp
it handshakes correctly and I get a picture right away. Plug it back into the
monoprice, nothing until I switch hdtv resolutions in the hdtv setup menu.
That's just wierd...

What's really strange about the 9200 sat receiver is that if I unplug it from
the monoprice switch and directly into my 2x1 dtrovision dvi distribution amp
it handshakes correctly and I get a picture right away. Plug it back into the
monoprice, nothing until I switch hdtv resolutions in the hdtv setup menu.
That's just wierd...
You dtrovision is stripping HDCP.

i received my switch a few days ago and so far no problems a big improvement from the 4x1 switch. im using it with the 942 among other components and no problems there is no sparkles also the switch seems to reduce some video noise which is a + but i could just be seeing things ill have to see after some more extensive testing but so far so good

Yes, the monoprice 5x1 does what you are asking for. If you only have one device active at a time you never need to pick up the remote control. It will switch to the active input automatically.
Is there any reason the monoprice switcher wouldn't autoswitch? I have two devices connected, a Samsung DVD player and a Humax HD receiver. The switcher is autoscanning correctly, but it hasn't once autoswitched.

Is there any reason the monoprice switcher wouldn't autoswitch? I have two devices connected, a Samsung DVD player and a Humax HD receiver. The switcher is autoscanning correctly, but it hasn't once autoswitched.
Well, if you have 2 or more active signals then it can't really read your mind and figure out which you want it to switch to. They could have programmed it to switch to the most recent active signal, but that's not how it works.

It only autoswitches when you have one signal active or the current active input loses signal, otherwise, if your current input has active signal, it will stay on the current input, until you turn that device off.

It only autoswitches when you have one signal active or the current active input loses signal, otherwise, if your current input has active signal, it will stay on the current input, until you turn that device off.

Even when I start with both devices turned off, then turn one of them on, the switcher isn't autoswitching. Is there a chance that something else could prevent the autoswitch functionality? In other words, before I ask for an exchange, could my DVD player or HD tuner be to blame? (Once again, the autoscanning works as expected).

Everything works great when I press the button manually, but I really want the switch to work without my intervention.

Even when I start with both devices turned off, then turn one of them on, the switcher isn't autoswitching. Is there a chance that something else could prevent the autoswitch functionality? In other words, before I ask for an exchange, could my DVD player or HD tuner be to blame? (Once again, the autoscanning works as expected).
Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by autoswitching.

How can autoscan be working but autoswitch not? If the switch does autoscan and there is only one active device, isn't that the same as autoswitch? In my experience, the autoscan will only look for inputs with active signal, so if you only ever have one active signal, it is the same a autoswitch.

Hi, my brother in the US is kindly forwarding me on of these 5X1 switchers, would one of you chaps have look at the supplied DC adapters input voltage i.e. is it 120/240 or just 120V
hope you can help.

Paul in the UK

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by autoswitching. How can autoscan be working but autoswitch not?
Thank you for the assistance, sfhub.

I have two devices connected, but only one powered on.

Autoswitch: If the switch is set to "Input 1", and I power on "Device 2", the switch stays on "Input 1" - until I press the selector button. My understanding is that the switch should automatically flip over to "Input 2" in this scenario.

Autoscan: If the switch is set to "Input 1", and I power on "Device 2", the selector button will switch to "Input 1", and only that input. Once that input is selected, it not switch to any other inputs. So, the switch can correctly identify which inputs are active.

My switch can correctly limit itself to the active inputs, but it doesn't switch to them automatically.

I have two devices connected, but only one powered on

Autoswitch: If the switch is set to "Input 1", and I power on "Device 2", the switch stays on "Input 1" - until I press the selector button. My understanding is that the switch should automatically flip over to "Input 2" in this scenario.B] Just a Generic suggestion; Have you tried:
1. Initially, device 1 ON and Switch input selection is 1
2. power device 1 off
3. power device 2 on
4. switch should automatically switch to device 2.

Hi, my brother in the US is kindly forwarding me on of these 5X1 switchers, would one of you chaps have look at the supplied DC adapters input voltage i.e. is it 120/240 or just 120V
hope you can help.

Paul in the UK
100-240 50-60Hz

Thank you for the assistance, sfhub.

I just spent some time testing various configurations.

I have to apologize. I do not use the autoswitch feature that often because I program the discrete input select into my remote.

When I tested autoswitch, I was using my PC and AV video equipment. Apparently some AV video equipment behaves differently regarding how the HDMI port is treated when you put the device in standby.

When you shut off the PC or hibernate, the DVI port is completely shutdown. In this case the switch does autoselect an active port and behaves the way I described.

However, it seems with AV devices the switch is not detecting when the HDMI port is shutdown, either because of how the AV device is treating the HDMI port differently on standby or because of faulty logic in the switch.

If for example, you pull the HDMI cable out of your AV device, simulating what happens on my PC, then the switch will autoswitch. I'm not in any way suggesting that as a workaround, just explaining what was happening in my testing.

It's possible how the HDMI port is handled varies from device to device and autoswitch may work for some but not for others.

So I suspect your switch is working like everyone elses so it isn't broken in that sense. However the autoswitch feature appears to be buggy and doesn't work in all situations.

It is kind of ironic, in my usage, I really prefer to have autoswitch disabled, but it cannot. In your usage you prefer to have it enabled and it is not. :(

Anyway, if it is a major issue, I would suggest returning the switch. In my case, I have all this stuff automated through my remote, so the switch is pretty transparent, and I don't get exposed to it much anymore.

Just a Generic suggestion; Have you tried:
1. Initially, device 1 ON and Switch input selection is 1
2. power device 1 off
3. power device 2 on
4. switch should automatically switch to device 2.
Yup, That's the procedeure I've been following. I tried it again, just to be sure (and in the reverse direction with the other device) - to no avail. This is a brand new switch (received 3/23). Is there a chance that the autoswitching has been disabled in the new versions? Or, is there now a way to turn autoswitching on and off (via a mystery technique)?

Yup, That's the procedeure I've been following. I tried it again, just to be sure (and in the reverse direction with the other device) - to no avail. This is a brand new switch (received 3/23). Is there a chance that the autoswitching has been disabled in the new versions? Or, is there now a way to turn autoswitching on and off (via a mystery technique)?
Try substituting pulling the HDMI cable for the power off steps above. Again, I'm just suggesting this for debugging purposes, not as a workaround.

100-240 50-60Hz

many thanks for your speedy reply

Paul

Yup, That's the procedeure I've been following. Or, is there now a way to turn autoswitching on and off (via a mystery technique)?You might as well accept that the autoswitch feature would not work in your application. Sflug would know about the ability to disable autoswitch function. Obviously, you would have considered programming a macro for your remote, if you were using such a remote. Another switch I came across was Octava. It too is in the same price range as monoswitch. gefen was simply not worth the money - the hdmi switches do seem have dropped in price, courtesy of monoprice and octava.

Yup, That's the procedeure I've been following. I tried it again, just to be sure (and in the reverse direction with the other device) - to no avail. This is a brand new switch (received 3/23). Is there a chance that the autoswitching has been disabled in the new versions? Or, is there now a way to turn autoswitching on and off (via a mystery technique)?
just fyi some components even when they are shut off they still provide some sort of signal/ voltage through the hdmi output which is whats probably happening to you so when you put your component in standby/off the switch still thinks there is a active signal this is whats happening in my case with some of my equipment

just fyi some components even when they are shut off they still provide some sort of signal/ voltage through the hdmi output which is whats probably happening to you so when you put your component in standby/off the switch still thinks there is a active signal

This must be the explanation. It's odd, though, that the switch can determine when the devices are powered off, because I can't even manually choose those inputs (aka: autoscanning).

I haven't tried pulling the HDMI cables yet, but I'm sure I'll find that sfhub is correct. I'll report my findings this evening.

OK - as expected, pulling the HDMI cables caused the autoswitch mechanism to activate. I'm curious to know if anyone using a standard AV device is able to use this feature.

All in all, I'm fine with the situation. It wouldn't have stopped me from buying the switch, but it is something potential buyers should keep in mind.

Thanks for the help!

My switch just arrived - I'll test it tonight and report back ... with my 1080p Sceptre LCD HDTV.
I wonder whether (and how adversely) the AutoSwitch issue will affect me ...
a. PC DVI-HDMI at 1080p to the switch, second CRT monitor is primary, and I will often use just the CRT for quickly checking mail etc, without wanting the HDMI switch to switch my input to the PC from one of the following two (more likely/frequently active inputs ...)
b. Toshiba HDMI upconverting (1080i) DVD player (might return this, the PC DVD playback is likely better, and the DiVX playback feature on the player is also moot with a PC connected)
c. Dish 811 DVI-output 1080i HD box.

Placeholder for a review/impressions ...

c. Dish 811 DVI-output 1080i HD box.
I don't have experience with that particular set top box, but in my experience STBs are the most problematic of all equipment when it comes to switching.

The best procedure is to:
1) unplug STB power
2) plug in all HDMI/DVI cables
3) turn on display, select HDMI/DVI input
4) plug in STB power, make sure STB is active input on 5x1 switch
5) do not turn off STB after this procedure (it doesn't save any power to turn it
off so no big loss)

Some STBs behave better than others so you can experiment with what needs to be done or not.

I don't have experience with that particular set top box, but in my experience
<...>
5) do not turn off STB after this procedure (it doesn't save any power to turn it
off so no big loss)


Thanks for the tip! I don't plan to turn the SB off - it's hooked to my Standalone TiVo (I refuse to use the cruddy DVRs that Dish/DTV/Cable provide) and TiVo changes channels to record it's stuff. This might severely cramp my HD viewing, but I'll tolerate it until Comcast comes out with TiVo CableCard TiVos, or TiVo's Series 3 is out, and I can get Verizon FIOS and Cable :)

I'll be sure to post my specific experience witht he 811 and the Monoprice switch!

I have the monoprice 5x1 and I have a problem I need help troubleshooting. I have a SA8300HD box on position 1 and I have a RCA DRC255N Upconverting HDMI dvd player on position 2, connected to a Infocus SP5000. Here is my problem, when I run the DVD player in 720p or 1080i, I have some of those dreaded blue sparkles in a small portion of the screen, but usually only on a blank menu screen with no dvd in the drive. Running 480i or 480p thur hdmi I get no artifacts at all. I had the same problem with the Cyberhome Upconverting DVD-655 player that I returned. Its not the dvd hookup cable as I tried different HDMI cables. Also the picture from my STB Cable box is flawless (480i, 720p or 1080i), so no cable issues on that end. FYI the RCA upconverting player is really, really nice so far.......price is really right! The cyberhome is pure junk, mainly due to the fact the player is very, very slow and sluggish to respond to remote inputs

I have the monoprice 5x1 and I have a problem I need help troubleshooting. I have a SA8300HD box on position 1 and I have a RCA DRC255N Upconverting HDMI dvd player on position 2, connected to a Infocus SP5000. Here is my problem, when I run the DVD player in 720p or 1080i, I have some of those dreaded blue sparkles in a small portion of the screen, but usually only on a blank menu screen with no dvd in the drive. Running 480i or 480p thur hdmi I get no artifacts at all. I had the same problem with the Cyberhome Upconverting DVD-655 player that I returned. Its not the dvd hookup cable as I tried different HDMI cables.
What length cables are you using? List all of them. Also list any dvi->hdmi adapters you might be using. Adapters can easily cause sparkles if they are not well made.

I've tested Panasonic, Oppo, and Samsung upconverting DVD players through this switch and never had sparkles once. That would tend to suggest this problem is with your setup.

I wouldn't rule out your cables either, even if they worked with a different equipment. If the TMDS transmitter on a source device is sending a good signal, it can work on even marginal cables, but take those same marginal cables and use them with a device with a poor transmitter and you can have problems.

Have you tried switching to a different port on the 5x1 switch?

Have you tried disconnecting HDMI cable for SA box and connecting to RCA player? That would use different cable and port.

It isn't the autoselect feature that would be causing your issues, it is the active signal detect feature. The latter feature only allows you to select devices which have active signal. I mentioned in my review they should allow the user to disable this.

The only device I found issue with active signal detect was my MyHD MDP-130 card, and I later found a workaround by using the loopback cable to connect my nVidia card through the MDP-130 DVI port. The MDP-130 is designed as a DVI passthrough device, so some of the signals it only gets from the DVI graphics card being passed through. I normally don't have my DVI graphics connected in passthrough mode, so the lines are missing from the MDP-130 DVI output.

I see this more as a deficiency in the MDP-130 DVI output that is interacting poorly with the active signal detect feature.

No other device I had tested, including Motorola STB, Samsung upconverting DVI DVD player, Panasonic upconverting HDMI DVD player, Radio Shack Accurian ATSC HDTV tuner, and nVidia 6600GT DVI port had problems with signals being detected.

I'm a little surprised the Momitsu isn't being detected. It would be the first standalone device to have this problem. I can understand the MDP-130 problem because of the loopback design, but Momitsu really shouldn't have this problem.

Have you tried different cables? Have you tried pressing the specific discrete input select on the remote for the port the Momitsu is connected to? The light on the 5x1 doesn't indicate whether there is signal or not. It indicates which port is currently active. Have you tried swapping ports or just connecting the Momitsu to port 1 and nothing else on the switch?

I'm not saying you can't have a problem with Momitsu being detected, but it would be strange for a standalone device with no need for passthrough design to be designed in such a fashion that active signal would not be detected by the 5x1.
I see that you have made HDMI incompatibility and shortcomings your life’s work.
Why are you still surprised by incompatibility issues? Looks like the latest and greatest Monoprice switcher causes just as much pain and frustration as the previous generation of flawed HDMI switchers.
Didn't somebody chastise you several months ago about your endless and pointless thrashing and Pied Piper recommendations? Hopefully you finally realize what a mess it all is. How deep is the hole today? Do you still expect others to wade through this quagmire too?
I'll check back every few months to see if any real progress is being made. As stated earlier the HDMI interface will take at least another 5-10 years to sort out. Someday there will be plug-n-play.
The key missing ingredient is (still) the lack of rigorous certification of each HDMI hardware design and cables by the official HDMI testing laboratories. The testing would have easily caught these “what they should have done” issues.

Lets have Monoprice submit their HDMI products here for testing:
http://www.simplayhd.com/index.cfm?page=wp6&crid=23

This would save us (read the consumer) from all the bull****.
BTW, I'm on my 5th HDMI switcher. Kick me if I'm stupid:)

"Consumers will benefit from the Simplay HD Testing Program as it evolves to include an even broader suite of interoperability testing, especially as the digital links among devices continue to grow in complexity," said Steve Tirado, president and CEO of Silicon Image. "Over time, Simplay HD verified products will represent the worry-free way for consumers to purchase HD components and create the ultimate home theater experience."

"Over Time" means several years and generations.

I see that you have made HDMI incompatibility and shortcomings your life’s work.
Why are you still surprised by incompatibility issues? Looks like the latest and greatest Monoprice switcher causes just as much pain and frustration as the previous generation of flawed HDMI switchers.
Didn't somebody chastise you several months ago about your endless and pointless thrashing and Pied Piper recommendations? Hopefully you finally realize what a mess it all is. How deep is the hole today? Do you still expect others to wade through this quagmire too?
I'll check back every few months to see if any real progress is being made. As stated earlier the HDMI interface will take at least another 5-10 years to sort out. Someday there will be plug-n-play.
The key missing ingredient is (still) the lack of rigorous certification of each HDMI hardware design and cables by the official HDMI testing laboratories. The testing would have easily caught these “what they should have done” issues.
Dude, you are whack.

There are plenty of people who have no issues with this switcher.

If I'm Pied Piper, you are Chicken Little, the sky is falling down.


http://www.htguys.com/archive/2006/March172006.html
Monoprice 5x1 HDMI Switch
The Monoprice 5X1 Enhanced HDMI Switch is available from monoprice.com for about $135 (US). It is a very simple device. It has, as the name suggests, 5 HDMI inputs and one output. This type of product is great for TV owners with one DVI or HDMI input and multiple HDMI components. It comes with a remote control that lets you sequentially go through the inputs or use a discrete button to switch directly to the input you want. The device Supports 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p, 1080i and 1080p resolution and is HDCP compliant.

In our tests we found that it just works. It was easy to incorporate into the Harmony remote. We set up our macros to switch all the components and then switch the HDMI input. It never misses. The only thing you have to consider is that there are two green LEDs that are always on. In a dark room it can be distracting. You can't hide the device because it needs a line of site to the remote. If it really bothers you you can put some electrical tape over the LEDs. You are not going to find a better HDMI switcher for the price. Full disclosure. Monoprice was a past sponsor of our podcast. We were not paid to review this product.

I see that you have made HDMI incompatibility and shortcomings your life’s work.
Why are you still surprised by incompatibility issues? Looks like the latest and greatest Monoprice switcher causes just as much pain and frustration as the previous generation of flawed HDMI switchers.
Didn't somebody chastise you several months ago about your endless and pointless thrashing and Pied Piper recommendations? Hopefully you finally realize what a mess it all is. How deep is the hole today? Do you still expect others to wade through this quagmire too?
I'll check back every few months to see if any real progress is being made. As stated earlier the HDMI interface will take at least another 5-10 years to sort out. Someday there will be plug-n-play.
The key missing ingredient is (still) the lack of rigorous certification of each HDMI hardware design and cables by the official HDMI testing laboratories. The testing would have easily caught these “what they should have done” issues.

What was the purpose of this post. It's doesn't help anyone. I bought a 4 port monoprice and it didn't work. Not the end of the world. I replaced it with the new 5-port and after a couple of months, no problems.


The key missing ingredient is (still) the lack of rigorous certification of each HDMI hardware design and cables by the official HDMI testing laboratories. The testing would have easily caught these “what they should have done” issues.


It's called growing pains. Most of the people on these forums know this going in. We all might as well get used to it.

BTW: I have found sfhub's information useful/helpful as well. Like the two next posts. For 130.00 you can't beat it. Nobody is making you read his posts.

I see that you have made HDMI incompatibility and shortcomings your life’s work.
Why are you still surprised by incompatibility issues? Looks like the latest and greatest Monoprice switcher causes just as much pain and frustration as the previous generation of flawed HDMI switchers.
Didn't somebody chastise you several months ago about your endless and pointless thrashing and Pied Piper recommendations? Hopefully you finally realize what a mess it all is. How deep is the hole today? Do you still expect others to wade through this quagmire too?
I'll check back every few months to see if any real progress is being made. As stated earlier the HDMI interface will take at least another 5-10 years to sort out. Someday there will be plug-n-play.
The key missing ingredient is (still) the lack of rigorous certification of each HDMI hardware design and cables by the official HDMI testing laboratories. The testing would have easily caught these “what they should have done” issues.
ok so it seems you don't like hdmi, although not perfect in most cases it does provide a better picture now for the switch, again not perfect(but what is) in my case it works very well and is a big improvement over the 4x1, im one of those people who only have one dvi input,so this switch for me is important (and for around $130 how could you beat it). and it was easily programed to work with my remote, and as for sfhub's review and helping trouble shoot problems, i found it very helpful

I see that you have made HDMI incompatibility and shortcomings your life’s work.
Why are you still surprised by incompatibility issues? Looks like the latest and greatest Monoprice switcher causes just as much pain and frustration as the previous generation of flawed HDMI switchers. ......Hopefully you finally realize what a mess it all is. How deep is the hole today? Do you still expect others to wade through this quagmire too? ................HDMI interface will take at least another 5-10 years to sort out. .... Why bash sflub, who is only trying to help? Granted you want to wait for several generations for the best connection and thats fine. But there are a few of us who are trying to use whats available in the market now. We do appreciate help from those such a sflub - his review seemed useful to me. If his life's work is to discuss/figure out hdmi issues, well thats good news to me. I will look forward to his future research.

I received my switcher yesterday and hooked it up last night. Everything works as advertised. The picture is clear as can be from all devices. There is one problem however, now all off the radios in the house have a humming sound on the AM stations. I like to listen to ESPN radio at night. This morning I unplugged the switcher and sure enough the humming sound on the radio was gone. Plugged it back in and the sound was back. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?

I didn't know anyone still listened to AM radio.

Is ESPN radio on sat radio?

I didn't know anyone still listened to AM radio.

Unfortunately in my area ESPN radio is on AM only. Yes it is on sat radio also. I do have Sirius sat radio that I use at work and sometimes at home also. It doesn't make much sense to drag the receiver home (sportster) every night when what I want to listen to is on regular radio. Now that we have established that some people still listen to AM radio and prefer not to carry their sat radio receiver around with them does anyone have a fix for the original problem?

Try plugging it on another circuit.

Ok, so after reading this whole post, can someone recommend an HDMI switcher that will work with the following:

SA8300 Cable Box
Pioneer 59avi DVD player
Toshiba HD-DVD (when released)


Looking for a 4 or 5 switcher box. Right now I have a 50 ft HDMI cable from the DVD player. I need to keep the 50 ft cable (don't ask me to try a smaller cable) to a switch box, then use either 3 or 6ft cables from device like DVD player to the HDMI switch box.

Cost is not a factor.

Which product will work the best for me? Should it be a Geffen product? Not interested in Monoprice due to all the work involved to get it working for my setup, especially the fact that I have a 50ft run, so please don't recommend it. It may work for some folks, but I am not interested in their product.

Thanks,

Brian

Which product will work the best for me? Should it be a Geffen product? Not interested in Monoprice due to all the work involved to get it working for my setup, especially the fact that I have a 50ft run, so please don't recommend it. It may work for some folks, but I am not interested in their product.
Huh? The only product that really has issues at 50ft is the Panasonic S77/S97 DVD player, which you do not own.

It works very good for all the other equipment I'm using at 50ft and I'm sure I've tested more equipment than most people.

You will find that many issues you might encounter are common to all switches and have to do with the source equipment and display device rather than the switch itself.

Regardless of which brand you decide on, I suggest if you are using 50ft cables, buy a switch from a place that has a good return policy. At that length, you can potentially have issues with any brand and just because it works for someone with their equipment, doesn't mean it will work for your equipment. That is why it is important to have a good return policy. If you were using shorter length cables there is less risk as the chances for issues is much less.

Monoprice has an excellent 21-day return policy with no restocking fee.

Try plugging it on another circuit.
Tried it last night and all is well. Thanks :)

I am happy to report Toshiba HD-DVD player (HD-A1) works great with Monoprice 5x1 switch.

It even handles RGB to YPbPr colorspace change correctly. I have an Oppo configured for RGB and Toshiba HD-DVD configured for YPbPr and after half a second the colorspace is renegotiated.

Works much better than I expected given HD-DVD players are so new.

The problem is that I live in Canada, so most returns end up costing more than the unit itself. I may give them a try as the Gefen switcher is really pricey.

Thanks,

Brian

The problem is that I live in Canada, so most returns end up costing more than the unit itself. I may give them a try as the Gefen switcher is really pricey.

If you want, wait a little bit. I currently have Toshiba HD-A1 tested with 15ft cables. I will test with 50ft 22AWG cables in a day or two.

The problem is that I live in Canada, so most returns end up costing more than the unit itself. I may give them a try as the Gefen switcher is really pricey.

Thanks,

Brian

When mine was backordered and delayed, one of the notifications implied it was held up in customs coming in from Canada. Perhaps monoprice will let you know if you can request a replacement direct from the Canadian source? They're super-prompt and polite with responses & follow-ups!

:) (I may be wrong, but I think I distinctly remember customs and Canada being mentioned in their online status update)

I love Monoprice. Someone recommended them to me last year when I first got my HDTV. I have never looked back, I have rewired almost my entire setup with Monoprice cables since then. I have also told everyone I know who has an HD setup about them. I know 2-3 people who now use Monoprice since I told them about it.

That being said this thread was a great read. With only one HDMI slot on my TV, I will need something soon for switching.

If you want, wait a little bit. I currently have Toshiba HD-A1 tested with 15ft cables. I will test with 50ft 22AWG cables in a day or two.
Finally had a chance to test with longer cables.

First I tested 25ft, 35ft, and 50ft HDMI cables without the switch.
All worked great, no sparkles, perfect picture.

Next I tested 10ft HDMI from HD-A1 to Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch and 25ft, 35ft, and 50ft HDMI cables from 5x1 switch to Sharp LC-45GX6U. All worked great, no sparkles, perfect picture.

HD-A1 -> 10ft HDMI -> 5x1 switch -> 25, 35, 50ft HDMI -> Sharp LC-45GX6U

I did notice one issue that may or may not be a problem for folks. For some reason 2-channel PCM audio could not pass from HD-A1 to my Sharp display over the HDMI cable unless I went with 10ft or shorter HDMI cables from 5x1 switch to the display.

For me this is a non-issue because I have my HD-A1 (actually all my DVD players) connected to my receiver using optical TOSLINK connection so I can get 5.1 sound. I can't stand listening to 5.1 track downmixed to 2-channel PCM over my TVs little speakers.

Hopefully Toshiba can address the audio problem in updated firmware or maybe Monoprice can have the 5x1 engineers figure out what is going on.

Display: Sharp LC-45GX6U 1920x1080 LCD - HDMI

Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch - Item 2777 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2)

Monoprice 50ft HDMI (22AWG-Silver Plated) - Item 2678 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=2678&seq=1&format=2&style=)
Monoprice 35ft HDMI (24AWG) - Item 2805 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=2805&seq=1&format=2&style=)
Monoprice 25ft HDMI (24AWG) - Item 2109 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2109&seq=1&format=2&style=)

Monoprice 10ft HDMI (28AWG) - Item 2504 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024003&p_id=2504&seq=1&format=2&style=)

I have had the 5X1 switch since the end of March. Sean sent it to me to replace the 4X1 he previously sold. It has been working perfectly for my DTV H10 rec, Accurian OTA rec., and my HTPC DVI. All of my cabeles are Monoprice HDMI to HDMI with a DVI to HDMI for the HTPC and a HDMI to DVI adapter on the output. I have just purchased a new Denon 1920 with HDMI output and it does not pass through the 5X1! It works just fine when connected to the SP4805 through DVI directly, but not with the switch in the chain. Has anyone had any success getting Denon HDMI to pass through the 5X1 switch? Thanks in advance.

Chuck

PS - I am passing video only.

I have had the 5X1 switch since the end of March. Sean sent it to me to replace the 4X1 he previously sold. It has been working perfectly for my DTV H10 rec, Accurian OTA rec., and my HTPC DVI. All of my cabeles are Monoprice HDMI to HDMI with a DVI to HDMI for the HTPC and a HDMI to DVI adapter on the output. I have just purchased a new Denon 1920 with HDMI output and it does not pass through the 5X1! It works just fine when connected to the SP4805 through DVI directly, but not with the switch in the chain. Has anyone had any success getting Denon HDMI to pass through the 5X1 switch? Thanks in advance.

Does the Denon give an error message or indication what is going wrong?

Is there a reason you want 2 HDMI switches (denon and monoprice)? It would seem simpler to just use one. I don't know the features of denon 1920, so maybe it isn't a switch. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the purpose of the Denon HDMI capabilities.

Does the Denon give an error message or indication what is going wrong?

Is there a reason you want 2 HDMI switches (denon and monoprice)? It would seem simpler to just use one. I don't know the features of denon 1920, so maybe it isn't a switch. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the purpose of the Denon HDMI capabilities.

There is an led on the front of the 1920 that will glow solid when an HDMI cable is detected and attached to an HDMI device. The led will blink when HDMI mode is selected and it does not detect a cable or device attached. When plugged directly to the SP4805 through DVI it does not blink and I get a picture. When plugged in through the 5X1 it blinks and I do not get a picture. I have switched out the cable and no difference.

"2 HDMI switches"? The Denon 1920 is a DVD player with SACD capabilities and HDMI output. I only use one switch, the Monoprice 5X1, to switch video to the SP4805 projector.

There is an led on the front of the 1920 that will glow solid when an HDMI cable is detected and attached to an HDMI device. The led will blink when HDMI mode is selected and it does not detect a cable or device attached. When plugged directly to the SP4805 through DVI it does not blink and I get a picture. When plugged in through the 5X1 it blinks and I do not get a picture. I have switched out the cable and no difference.

"2 HDMI switches"? The Denon 1920 is a DVD player with SACD capabilities and HDMI output. I only use one switch, the Monoprice 5X1, to switch video to the SP4805 projector.
Sorry I didn't look up the Denon, I was thinking it was an HDMI switching receiver.

Is the input on the 5x1 switch selected when Denon is turned on?

Is it possible to swap in shorter cables from 5x1 to SP4805? Just for temporary debugging, maybe even move the DVD player and switch closer to projector.

Sorry I didn't look up the Denon, I was thinking it was an HDMI switching receiver.

Is the input on the 5x1 switch selected when Denon is turned on?

Is it possible to swap in shorter cables from 5x1 to SP4805? Just for temporary debugging, maybe even move the DVD player and switch closer to projector.

>>Is the input on the 5x1 switch selected when Denon is turned on?

I haven't tried that yet. Will do it later tonight.

>>Is it possible to swap in shorter cables from 5x1 to SP4805? Just for temporary debugging, maybe even move the DVD player and switch closer to projector.

I think I have the cables to do that, but I probably won't have the time to test it until tomorrow night.

I know for a fact that I have to have the HTPC (using a Nvidia based DVI video card) hooked directly to the 4805 whenever it gets turned on or rebooted.Then I disconnect from the direct connection to the 4805 and plug it into input 4 of the 5X1 and all is OK. That is because the Nvidia card will not recognize that a digital display is hooked to it when it boots unless it is fed directly to the 4805. Once it has booted, I can switch freely using the 5X1 among inputs and all is ok.

I have tried starting the Denon connected directly to the 4805 and that works, but as soon as I disconnect it and reconnect it to the 5X1 it loses its HDMI output. So I will try having the 5X1 on the Denon input and starting powering the Denon up that way. I will let you know what happens.

What is it with HDMI that is causing such abnormalities? Is it the compliance to copy protection (I believe it is HDCP?)? What a pain......

Chuck

Oh, yeah. sfhub gets a big dinner if he figures this one out!

Either your TV or your DVD player has a half-assed HDMI negotiation implementation. Do what the others are recommending ... make sure you power BOTH up only when an active path between them exists (directly, or through the switch).

And I do agree, this is difficult to achieve because the monoprice switch refuses to switch to an input-less source!

My recommendation ... and this isn't a useful one ... dump either the TV or the DVD player ;)

I know for a fact that I have to have the HTPC (using a Nvidia based DVI video card) hooked directly to the 4805 whenever it gets turned on or rebooted.Then I disconnect from the direct connection to the 4805 and plug it into input 4 of the 5X1 and all is OK. That is because the Nvidia card will not recognize that a digital display is hooked to it when it boots unless it is fed directly to the 4805. Once it has booted, I can switch freely using the 5X1 among inputs and all is ok.
I'm pretty confident the nVidia problem can be made to go away with DVI Detective. Unfortunately it cannot be used with Denon because it doesn't support HDCP.

I use the DVI out on the Denon 2910 with no problems with the 5x1 switcher. Haven't tried the HDMI connection, though (2910 has both outputs).

OK, here is what I have done.

1) Denon DVD 1920 works with short or long cable going to SP4805 projector without the 5X1.

2) Denon DVD 1920 will NOT work with short or long cable going to projector with the 5X1 and the only input being used is the 2910.

3) Denon DVD 1920 powered off, hooked up to 5X1 on input 1 (switched to led 1) and 5X1 connected to projector. Power up DVD 1920 and no connection.

I do not believe that the 1920 is compatible with the switch, or vice versa. Yet my other 3 sources, OTA HDTV STB, DTV HDTV receiver, and HTPC with DVI have no problem. Oh, well.

Chuck :confused: :( :mad:

From what you have tried it looks like 1920 is not compatible with 5x1 when using SP4805. It is notoriously hard to figure out who to blame with HDMI negotiation issues. Everyone points the finger at somebody else. It would be nice if the 1920 gave some error message that told you what it was complaining about.

From what you have tried it looks like 1920 is not compatible with 5x1 when using SP4805. It is notoriously hard to figure out who to blame with HDMI negotiation issues. Everyone points the finger at somebody else. It would be nice if the 1920 gave some error message that told you what it was complaining about.

Agreed. I deal with the finger pointing in software and hardware all the time. My question is, how do I go about finding a switchbox that will work with this combination? My first inclination is to look at a Gefen 4X1, but i am not sure that will be any better. Just have to look for a return guarantee, I guess. In the meantime, I bought an $8.65 female female HDMI adapter that I can plug in if I really want to watch the DVD player on the big screen. (I usually watch all movies using the HTPC). I do appreciate your time and help, but I believe I am experiencing first hand the inadequacies of new technology with copy protection thrown in for good measure. Years from now when it is sorted out I can say "Remember when.....". Anyway, thanks again for your efforts.

Chuck

I previously posted that I was having problems with my ExpressVu 9200 satellite reciever and the 5x1 monoprice hdmi switcher. (the 9200 is the same hardware as the Dish 942, i believe).

Well, surprise, surprise, the V143 software upgrade that Bell released just *today* among other things fixes this problem. The 9200 now works flawlessly with the Monoprice switcher. I can switch back and forth to and from the 9200 and it re-syncs the hdmi signal nearly instantly. Prior to the software upgrade I had to go into the HDTV setup menu and switch resolutions to get the receiver to re-sync its hdmi signal.

I can also report that the 5x1 switcher works great with the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player (that player does act a bit wierd when using HDMI, losing sync between various commands, but nothing that prevents it from be usable and it certainly works well with the switcher)

I confirm that ! youhouuu !

I can also report that the 5x1 switcher works great with the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player (that player does act a bit wierd when using HDMI, losing sync between various commands, but nothing that prevents it from be usable and it certainly works well with the switcher)
It does that with every switch. Lots of stuff resets the player to playback from beginning. They need to clean up how the AACS restrictions interact with HDMI/HDCP.

If you ever see HDMI error after trying a command on the Toshiba, best thing to do is press play and it will many times pick up where it left off, but there are some operations where the player's interpretation of what should happen is reset and start from beginning.

Just got this 5x1 switch from Monoprice. My equipments are as follows:

(1) Denon 3910 DVD player
(2) Toshiba HD-A1
(3) Panasonic AE700 projector

I have the follow HDMI cables:

(A) Two 6 feet 28 AWG Monoprice cables with Ferrite Cores
(B) Generic 6 feet cable from the HD-A1
(C) 5 meters/~16 feet generic (from Alberta Cable Company in Calgary)

Resolutions that I have tried are 720p and 1080i. I have never tried 480p. When I said "all resolutions" below I mean both these two have been tested. I have not tried 1080p from my PC w/ ATI X1600 512MB because I don't have a DVI to HDMI cable/adaptor yet.

When I did the tests I plugged in the Monoprice switch first and then turned on the projector. I turned on the players after the projector has started up. I could swap the HDMI cable to different inputs on the fly this way.

************
* Test Results *
************

- Scenerio #1 - Using two 6 feet Monoprice cables from both players to the switch and the 16 feet HDMI from the switch to the projector:

3910: red/green 'flashed' (sparkles), temporary sync lost (would resume quickly automatically within seconds) in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
HD-A1: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.

- Scenerio #2 - Using the 6 feet Monoprice cable on one players and the generic Toshiba 6 feet HDMI on the other. Connected the 16 feet HDMI from the switch to the projector:

3910 w/ generic Toshiba 6 ft: red/green 'flashed' (sparkles), temporary sync lost (would resume quickly automatically within seconds) in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
HD-A1 w/ the generic Toshiba 6 ft: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
3910 w/ Monoprice: red/green 'flashed' (sparkles), temporary sync lost (would resume quickly automatically within seconds) in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
HD-A1 w/ Monoprice: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.

- Scenerio #3 - Using the 6 feet Monoprice cable on one players and the generic Toshiba 6 feet HDMI on the other. Connected the 6ft Monoprice cable instead of the 16 feet one from the switch to the projector:

3910 w/ generic Toshiba 6 ft: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
HD-A1 w/ the generic Toshiba 6 ft: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
3910 w/ Monoprice: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.
HD-A1 w/ Monoprice: works perfectly in all resolutions and on all 5 inputs.

- Scenerio #4 - Using the 16 feet generic HDMI from the Denon 3910 to the switch and using the Monoprice 6ft from the HD-A1 to the switch. Using the 6ft Monoprice from the switch to the projector:

3910 w/ 16 feet: works perfectly in all resolutions and on inputs 1 & 4.
HD-A1 w/ Monoprice: works perfectly in all resolutions and on inputs 1 & 4.

NOTE: I have only tried input 1 and 4 on the switch for this test. It doesn't mean the other don't work - it is just that it is getting really late into the night and I haven't give them a try.

It sounds like Denon 3910 does not like short cabling to the switch and long cabling from the switch to the Panasonic AE700. However, it is fine with long cabling to the switch and short cabling from the switch to the projector. What gives? It doesn't make any sense to me :confused:

In my experience Denon and Panasonic DVD players are the ones sensitive to the output cable length through this switch. In conjunction, the displays they are sensitive with are AE700/900 and Sharp LCDs.

Most equipment does not seem to be bothered by the cable length. Other DVD players like Samsung and Oppo don't seem to have a problem with the cable length and other displays like Samsung and Sony don't seem to exhibit the issue either.

I reported all my findings to Monoprice and the engineers feel they have a workaround for the equipment that is sensitive to cable length. Stay tuned for more info.

In my experience Denon and Panasonic DVD players are the ones sensitive to the output cable length through this switch. In conjunction, the displays they are sensitive with are AE700/900 and Sharp LCDs.

Most equipment does not seem to be bothered by the cable length. Other DVD players like Samsung and Oppo don't seem to have a problem with the cable length and other displays like Samsung and Sony don't seem to exhibit the issue either.

I reported all my findings to Monoprice and the engineers feel they have a workaround for the equipment that is sensitive to cable length. Stay tuned for more info.

Yeah... that's what I have read so far. But, the Denon works fine if I have longer cable run from the player to the switch and shorter one from the switch to the projector, not the vice versa. If it is sensitive to the length of the cables on both ends I would think it won't work in both cases. What gives? :confused:

Also, I longest HDMI cable that I have is 16 feet. Results may be different for something like a 50ft cable.

BTW, I have never seen any HDMI error message. I did lost sync briefly from time to time but the player and the projector will regain the communication automatically. If I go for short cable run (6 feet per piece) all around or long run for the 3910 to the switch there is absolutely no issue found.

Yeah... that's what I have read so far. But, the Denon works fine if I have longer cable run from the player to the switch and shorter one from the switch to the projector, not the vice versa. If it is sensitive to the length of the cables on both ends I would think it won't work in both cases. What gives? :confused:

Also, I longest HDMI cable that I have is 16 feet. Results may be different for something like a 50ft cable.

BTW, I have never seen any HDMI error message. I did lost sync briefly from time to time but the player and the projector will regain the communication automatically. If I go for short cable run (6 feet per piece) all around or long run for the 3910 to the switch there is absolutely no issue found.
I know what you are saying. I've reported the same issues with Panasonic S77. The only difference is the S77 works with 15ft cables with no issues, but at 25ft I get "U 70-2" cable too long error and no picture. That could easily be just because the S77 does an extra check that the Denon isn't doing, so if S77 didn't perform the check I would see the same you are seeing. Fortunately, for my application I only need 15ft, so in my daily usage, everything works fine. The only reason I noticed the problem is because I was doing interop testing with longer cables.

It is hard to say who is at fault without using more advanced test equipment. It could be a timing issue. It could be a signal level issue. It could be an issue with the sensitivity of HDMI receivers on the display. It could be related to how fast the display device responds to negotiation. It could be a source signal issue. All I really know is that Denon and Panasonic DVD source equipment and Panasonic AE700/900 and Sharp LCDs tend to be the most sensitive. That is why I just reported as much info as I could so the engineers with access to more advanced test equipment and design specs and figure out what is going on.

As an aside I was able to have the 5x1 switch run through a QuantumData TMDS signal generator and test equipment. It doesn't appear that errors are the source of these issues because it wasn't showing any at 74.25MHz.

QuadESL63 - Thanks for the patient and detailed evaluation. Its very much appreciated.

In my experience Denon and Panasonic DVD players are the ones sensitive to the output cable length through this switch. In conjunction, the displays they are sensitive with are AE700/900 and Sharp LCDs.

Most equipment does not seem to be bothered by the cable length. Other DVD players like Samsung and Oppo don't seem to have a problem with the cable length and other displays like Samsung and Sony don't seem to exhibit the issue either.

I reported all my findings to Monoprice and the engineers feel they have a workaround for the equipment that is sensitive to cable length. Stay tuned for more info.

Yikes. I think I made a MAJOR mistake when I ordered this switch. I ordered it on Friday and according to DHL it has arrived at my home. My problem is that I have TWO pieces of Denon equipment in my setup, 3910 DVD player and AVR-3806. Damn I wish I would have found this thread earlier. It seems that it probably won't be worth my while to even unpack the thing. Just send it back and ask for refund?

Yikes. I think I made a MAJOR mistake when I ordered this switch. I ordered it on Friday and according to DHL it has arrived at my home. My problem is that I have TWO pieces of Denon equipment in my setup, 3910 DVD player and AVR-3806. Damn I wish I would have found this thread earlier. It seems that it probably won't be worth my while to even unpack the thing. Just send it back and ask for refund?
Not sure why you wouldn't unpack the unit and try it. Monoprice has a great return policy with no restocking fee.

What length cables are you using and which display? Are you using a Panasonic AE900 projector? With the combination of Denon 3910 and AE900 it appears the setup works better if you use shorter cables from switch to display but you can still use longer cables from DVD player to switch.

If your setup doesn't include Panasonic AE900 projector, I wouldn't assume there is going to be a problem with your Denon player because it isn't clear if the problem is a combination of player and projector (through the switch) or isolated to one of the components.

Not sure why you wouldn't unpack the unit and try it. Monoprice has a great return policy with no restocking fee.

What length cables are you using and which display? Are you using a Panasonic AE900 projector? With the combination of Denon 3910 and AE900 it appears the setup works better if you use shorter cables from switch to display but you can still use longer cables from DVD player to switch.

If your setup doesn't include Panasonic AE900 projector, I wouldn't assume there is going to be a problem with your Denon player because it isn't clear if the problem is a combination of player and projector (through the switch)

I have both the Denon 3910 DVD and Denon 3806 on stand directly below the Mitsubishi 52628 DLP set. My cables are 3'. I also have a Dish ViP 211 HD receiver, Tosh HD-A1 DVD (it seems there is no issue with this player), and an Oppo.

I have both the Denon 3910 DVD and Denon 3806 on stand directly below the Mitsubishi 52628 DLP set. My cables are 3'. I also have a Dish ViP 211 HD receiver, Tosh HD-A1 DVD (it seems there is no issue with this player), and an Oppo.
Based on past experience it doesn't seem like you'd have any issues. I have the HD-A1 and Oppo and they work fine. On the HD-A1 if you want to switch to another source while in the middle of playing back a movie, just press pause first.

Many of the STBs actually work better through the 5x1 switch than through a repeater-style switcher like Denon 3806 because the STBs don't preperly support the extended HDCP negotiations when a repeater-style switch is used. Some STB manufacturers have released firmware fixes for this, but it takes a long time to reach the end-user.

Give it a try and let us know your results.

Based on past experience it doesn't seem like you'd have any issues. I have the HD-A1 and Oppo and they work fine. On the HD-A1 if you want to switch to another source while in the middle of playing back a movie, just press pause first.

Many of the STBs actually work better through the 5x1 switch than through a repeater-style switcher like Denon 3806 because the STBs don't preperly support the extended HDCP negotiations when a repeater-style switch is used. Some STB manufacturers have released firmware fixes for this, but it takes a long time to reach the end-user.

Give it a try and let us know your results.

On my way home now will kick it up and see what I get! I will post results.

I reported the problems/test results that I have to Monoprice and this is the response I've just received:

---
We're working on fixing all issues with the switcher. We don't think the switcher is upgradable, however, are willing to exchange you the switcher later with revised one. Please advise us how you'd like to do. Truly sorry for any inconvenience it may cause you.

Should you have any question, please feel free to email us.
Thank you for doing business with us.

Regards,

Sean
Monoprice, Inc.
---

I replied, saying I'd like to have it exchanged whenever there is a revised replacement. I haven't heard from them yet to see when I should send in my 5x1 switch but at least they are addressing the issue in a positive manner.

(BTW, I have no financial interest in this company, nor am I an employee of this firm ;) )

I have been incredibly impressed with these folks' attitude towards customer service.

I ordered back when the second batch of the switch was out of stock (rather the first had run out, 2nd batch expected) and when reviews were fresh on their and other sites (here). They shipped my cable part of the order within hours of my placing the order, kept me update through the situation, and mailed the switch out the moment they had it in stock again.

My subsequent order, a credit card snafu netted me a quick call and instant rectification, on-phone adice about one of the items in the order, and STILL same-day shipping!

Why can't more stores have this level of service? :)

I have been incredibly impressed with these folks' attitude towards customer service.

I ordered back when the second batch of the switch was out of stock (rather the first had run out, 2nd batch expected) and when reviews were fresh on their and other sites (here). They shipped my cable part of the order within hours of my placing the order, kept me update through the situation, and mailed the switch out the moment they had it in stock again.

My subsequent order, a credit card snafu netted me a quick call and instant rectification, on-phone adice about one of the items in the order, and STILL same-day shipping!

Why can't more stores have this level of service? :)
The answer to that question is painfully simple....They COULD...if they did one painfully simple thing.....PUT THE CUSTOMER FIRST....and take some REAL old-fashioned PRIDE in doing the best job you can to serve those customers with a quality product in a timely and courteous fashion...
Without trying to sound (too much....) like an info-mercial....Sean and his company have all their ducks in a row....and it shows....It'd sure be nice to see other businesses at least TRY to ACT interested in the product(s) they sell....and the folks to whom they're SUPPOSED to be catering....
(dismounts soapbox....exits stage left amidst uproarious applause.... :D )

I would applaud ... if my question had NOT been rhetorical :p

But I agree with you, otherwise ;)

Well, I tried to install the Monoprice 5x1 switcher into my system last evening with no success.

I have:

Source Device

Toshiba HD-A1 DVD (HDMI “Out”)
Denon 3910 DVD (HDMI “Out”)
Oppo DVD (DVI “Out”) Use a DVI/HDMI cable
Dish Network ViP 211 HD Sat Receiver (HDMI “Out”)
Denon AVR-3806 (with 2 HDMI “In”, and 1 HDMI “Monitor Out”)

Display

Mitsubhishi 52628 DLP (2 HDMI “Ins”)

Connections – Source to Monoprice Switch:

Dish Sat HDMI out to HDMI 1- (Monoprice);
Denon 3910 HDMI out to HDMI 2 – (Monoprice);
Oppo DVI out via dual DVI cable to HDMI to HDMI 3 – (Monoprice)
HDMI “Out” on Monoprice to HDMI 1 on Mits DLP TV

Connections – Toshiba HD-A1to Denon AVR-3806

HD-A1 HDMI “Out” to Denon AVR-3806 HDMI 1 “In”
Note: I connected HD DVD to Denon to utilize DD+ audio via HDMI cable.

After I made all the connections I plugged in the 5 x 1. I noticed that the light for HDMI 1 on switch, and HDMI 3 on switch would light appropriately when selected either via remote or from the switch itself. HDMI 2 on switch would not light when selected – this is where the Denon 3910 DVD player was hooked into switch. I made sure HDMI 1 was selected on the TV for the input path from the switch. No picture for the Dish HD Sat receiver, no picture for the Oppo DVD player, and it didn’t even seem to recognize that anything was connected to HDMI 2 (the 3910) in the signal path at all.

Now I know all my devices work with HDMI when either connected directly to the TV or through the Denon AVR-3806 (I know I am fortunate because I know quite a few others have trouble using their receivers as a “switch.”) This would be great but I am limited to only 2 HDMI inputs on my receiver, and only 2 HDMI inputs on my MITS TV.

Am I missing something here, or is the switch just not “compatable?” Any advice would be welcome before I call Monoprice and ask for a refund.

Another update from the folks @ Monoprice on the revised switch:

---
We don't have any revised one at this time. We're expecting to have a final
revised sample by end of this month. After approving it, it will take about
6-8 weeks to get actual shipment. If you can wait this long, you may send it
back to us for refund. Truly sorry for any inconvenience it may cause you.

Yes, you may have to send it back to us for exchange later.


Should you have any question, please feel free to email us.
Thank you for doing business with us.

Regards,

Sean
Monoprice, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit our online store at
www.monoprice.com
---------------------------------------------------------

---

Well, I tried to install the Monoprice 5x1 switcher into my system last evening with no success.

I have:

Source Device

Toshiba HD-A1 DVD (HDMI “Out”)
Denon 3910 DVD (HDMI “Out”)
Oppo DVD (DVI “Out”) Use a DVI/HDMI cable
Dish Network ViP 211 HD Sat Receiver (HDMI “Out”)
Denon AVR-3806 (with 2 HDMI “In”, and 1 HDMI “Monitor Out”)

Display

Mitsubhishi 52628 DLP (2 HDMI “Ins”)

Connections – Source to Monoprice Switch:

Dish Sat HDMI out to HDMI 1- (Monoprice);
Denon 3910 HDMI out to HDMI 2 – (Monoprice);
Oppo DVI out via dual DVI cable to HDMI to HDMI 3 – (Monoprice)
HDMI “Out” on Monoprice to HDMI 1 on Mits DLP TV

Connections – Toshiba HD-A1to Denon AVR-3806

HD-A1 HDMI “Out” to Denon AVR-3806 HDMI 1 “In”
Note: I connected HD DVD to Denon to utilize DD+ audio via HDMI cable.

After I made all the connections I plugged in the 5 x 1. I noticed that the light for HDMI 1 on switch, and HDMI 3 on switch would light appropriately when selected either via remote or from the switch itself. HDMI 2 on switch would not light when selected – this is where the Denon 3910 DVD player was hooked into switch. I made sure HDMI 1 was selected on the TV for the input path from the switch. No picture for the Dish HD Sat receiver, no picture for the Oppo DVD player, and it didn’t even seem to recognize that anything was connected to HDMI 2 (the 3910) in the signal path at all.
...
Am I missing something here, or is the switch just not “compatable?” Any advice would be welcome before I call Monoprice and ask for a refund.
I think something must be off because of the items you listed, I personally have the Oppo and HD-A1, and others have confirmed Dish STB (might have been different model) Denon 3910 was confirmed above to work with shorter output cables.

For debugging, I think you should simplify your setup. Start with Oppo only and work on getting output to display, then move on to the others. Disconnect everything you aren't testing.

What length/type of cable are you using from 5x1 to Mitsubishi?

For Oppo, what do you mean by "dual DVI" cable to HDMI? If you meant dual-link, I've never seen dual-link DVI to HDMI cables, because it would be a waste of copper. HDMI doesn't support dual-link so the extra pins would just be left open and any "dual-link" DVI port could accept both single-link and dual-link plugs from the cable. Are you using some sort of DVI->HDMI adapter to convert a dual-link DVI cable you had lying around? If so, could you replace that with pure DVI->HDMI cable?

Whenever you test, make sure the input for the device is selected on the 5x1 and the display is turned on first, all to be done before the source device is turned on.

For the Oppo, see if you can confirm the device is still configured for DVI and what video format the output is set for.

Keep in mind, if you turn on a device while it isn't the "active" device on the 5x1 switch, it is just like turning on the device with the cable disconnected. Sometimes this causes issues because some devices only go through their full HDCP negotiations when first turned on (or in the case of many STBs, when their power cord is first plugged in) and if they are disconnected when first turned on, hot plug does not work later on.

Repeat the above test swapping the Oppo for the HD-A1 and then the Dish STB.

If you can't get any output for these devices even in simplified config, I think you have a defective switch. If you can get output for some of the devices, we can work on figuring out what is going on.

On this switch, if you don't see a light, then there is no signal coming through on that HDMI input, so in the case of the Denon 3910, for some reason it seems Denon shutdown the HDMI port. It is possible this is because it didn't detect an HDMI display when it was turned on, because it wasn't the active input on the 5x1 switch.

HDMI 2 on switch would not light when selected – this is where the Denon 3910 DVD player was hooked into switch. I made sure HDMI 1 was selected on the TV for the input path from the switch. No picture for the Dish HD Sat receiver, no picture for the Oppo DVD player, and it didn’t even seem to recognize that anything was connected to HDMI 2 (the 3910) in the signal path at all.


I have no problem connecting my 3910 to any one of the 5 inputs on the switch. It is working with my AE700 projector thru this 5x1 switch (with some limitations, see my findings in one of my earlier posts).

Some thoughts:

(1) From what sfhub told me input 4 and 5 have the most direct path to the output on the switch. May be you can give those two a try?

(2) Try shorter cable from the 3910 (e.g. 6 ft). I have success even with a ~16 feet HDMI cable from the 3910 to the switch with no problem. But whatever you are going to try, you have to keep the HDMI cable from the switch to the projector short for the Denon based on my experiences (you have a different display device so your mileage may vary). Long HDMI cable from the player to the switch and longer cable from the switch to the display doesn't work well for me.

(3) It sounds like your 3910 has problem communicating to the switch itself (i.e. the LED on input #2 did not light up). I know it sounds stupid (and may even be insulting :eek: :D :p ) but have you manually switch your 3910 to use the HDMI output? ;) You can toggle between the components, DVI and HDMI with the remote.

(4) Also, try to take the receiver out of the loop first and connect the output on the switch to your display directly. Give it a try (although it sounds like the switch didn't even recognize your 3910 on input #2 so I don't know if this will make a different).

Good luck! Mine works fine if I keep the HDMI cable on the output of the switch short but I will probably ask for an exchange later on when the revised one is available.

Thanks sfhub and Quad ESL63. I will incorporate your suggestions. I put on my Sherlock Holmes hat and play detective this evening.

As always, a very helpful forum.

What length/type of cable are you using from 5x1 to Mitsubishi?

One meter.

For Oppo, what do you mean by "dual DVI" cable to HDMI?

Cable that came with Oppo - DVI connector on one end HDMI connector on the other end.


For the Oppo, see if you can confirm the device is still configured for DVI and what video format the output is set for.

Took the Oppo out of HDMI last night and have it connected via Component through the Denon AVR-3806 at present.


Repeat the above test swapping the Oppo for the HD-A1 and then the Dish STB.

Will do.

If you can't get any output for these devices even in simplified config, I think you have a defective switch. If you can get output for some of the devices, we can work on figuring out what is going on.

Ah what a wonderful way to spend a Wednesday evening. Nothing I like better then to get behind my display on my stomach and play with plugs! Good for at least two cans of beer. Thanks again for your help. Will let you know the progress of the investigation.

A new forum poster here... It was great to find this discussion of the Monoprice 5X1 HDMI switcher. I had been plugging and unplugging my HDMI cables at the back of my television while attempting to find a suitable switcher costing less than The $399 for the Geffen 4X1 HDMI switcher. After finding this discussion thread and reading through all the posts, I decided to order the Monoprice switcher, and I am very happy that I did.

My video setup:
Samsung HLR5067 720p DLP HDTV
connected to Monoprice output using a 1M "Silver Serpent" cable from Better Cables
Directv HD TIVO (HR10-250)
connected to Monoprice switcher using 1.8M HDMI Gold Series Cable from Radio Shack
Directv HD Receiver (H20)
connected to Monoprice switcher using HDMI cable which came with the receiver
Oppo OPDV971H DVD Player
connected to Monoprice switcher using DVI-HDMI cable which came with the player.

I am not going to attempt a technical review on the order of sfhub or any of the other tech wiz forum members - lol However, perhaps it will be helpful to someone having similar equipment to me to know that the Monoprice 5X1 HDMI switcher works GREAT for me. There were no sparkles or unwanted video noise. The video from Oppo, HD TIVO and HD20 was perfect to my perception.

I have experienced no switching issues between the 3 HDMI sources. I am so happy to have learned about the Monoprice switcher in this forum. I was a little concerned about the build quality of the Monoprice 5X1 switcher when first seeing a photo of it on the net. It looked as if it could have been cheaply built. I was thrilled to find that not to be the case when I unboxed it. It's solid, attractively designed and stays put. The lights on the front of the unit do not bother me, considering that they just blend in with the various lights on front of HR10-250, Oppo, Directv H20, Onkyo A/V tuner, Apple Airport Express, Felston DD540 Digital Audio Delay box, Onkyo DVD player and whatever else is glowing over on those shelves. :)

Thanks Monoprice for an excellent product at a very fair price!

Rechecked all my connections to the Monoprice switch. Turns out the HDMI cable I was using for the HDMI out from switch to my Mist HDMI in was bad. Replaced that cable and am enjoying error free video from all my devices, even the Denon 3910. Usually it seems that the simplest solutions are the last ones tried!

Thanks again for all the help. Very satisfied with the switch.

Forgot to add that I have added the switch to work with my Harmony 880 and it is working flawlessly. Love that remote -makes life much easier.

Awesome, yet another happy camper.

Awesome, yet another happy camper.

Very Happy. My highest recommendation for this switch.

How are you guys managing custom adjustments? I like being able to control adjustments for each input but obviously this won't work having to use a switch. I would imagine it can get very annoying. Unless of course, you are using the same settings on all your inputs. I'd probably would do that with anything but my game systems which I prefer using the vivid mode on my xbr

How are you guys managing custom adjustments? I like being able to control adjustments for each input but obviously this won't work having to use a switch. I would imagine it can get very annoying. Unless of course, you are using the same settings on all your inputs. I'd probably would do that with anything but my game systems which I prefer using the vivid mode on my xbr
On my Sharp, I can save settings per input and I can alternatively save multiple settings that are shared for all inputs. I choose to use the latter all on the HDMI input, so essentially I have multiple saved settings for a single input.

In practice though, most of my source look reasonable with the same settings.

It is a splitter style switch, not a matrix. You can ask monoprice if they are going to carry matrix-style switch.

please enlighten me, what is the difference?

I have three displays that i use, 1) a DILA device, 2)Sony TV 3) pc monitor. My sources include 1) a pc 2) moto 6412 cable box. It would seem that the switch would save me some cable shuffling. I already have a 15 ft dvt cable so i suppose i would need 2 dvi-hdmi cables to go from the sources to the switch and a converter (female dvi to hdmi) for the already existing long dvi run from the projector.

please enlighten me, what is the difference?

I have three displays that i use, 1) a DILA device, 2)Sony TV 3) pc monitor. My sources include 1) a pc 2) moto 6412 cable box. It would seem that the switch would save me some cable shuffling. I already have a 15 ft dvt cable so i suppose i would need 2 dvi-hdmi cables to go from the sources to the switch and a converter (female dvi to hdmi) for the already existing long dvi run from the projector.
If you have a 5x4 matrix-style switch, input 1 can go to any of output 1-4, same with input 2. You can have input 2 going to output 1 simultaneous with input 4 going to output 1.

5x4 splitter-style, if you select input 1, output 1-4 will all display input 1.

Well, I was reading through this long thread with great interest and actually ready to pull the trigger.
I have a Denon 2910 with a Panasonic AE-700. It appears from what has been recently said, that this is a dreaded combination with the Monoprice. Plus, to pour more gas onto the fire, I have a 50ft HDMI cable run. :( Could it get any worse? Probably not.
I have had my theater finished for about 8 months or so. During the first 2 or 3 months I was watching DVD via HDMI straight from the player to the projector. I was watching DirecTV through component. All with no probloms. Well, after a couple of months, my 2910 started acting up (slow loads) so I sent it in for repair. While I was with-out my 2910 I switched over my HDMI connection to my DirecTV and my component to my back-up progressive scan DVD player. This is where the issues started to crop up. When ever I would switch over from component DVD, or do a direct start up to the DirecTV, I would get a snowy screen. However, the problem could be worked around by simply switching the channel a few times and the picture would be/is clear as a bell. Strange… So, finally the company I bought my 2910 from decided to just send me a new player. So I hook up the new 2910 (through HDMI of course) and now my image has lines through it with sparkles and very brief dropouts. :( So I bought a short 6 foot cable and hooked my new 2910 up to my projector to see if it was the DVD player and it works great with the short cable. I left the disc playing for about 1.5 hours with no issues. So this leads me to believe that my cable length is just borderline to long since my DirecTV works as well and I had no issues before. Now I would love to get a switcher so I can run HDMI to both of my sources and soon to my HD-DVD or BD. Does the 5 into 1 have any kind of built in amplification to get me over the top with my long run or am I going to have to shell out more money than I paid for my DVD player for an amplified switcher?
Is there any plans for a 4 into 2 or 5 into 2 switcher?


Craig

I'm having a problem with my Monoprice 5x1 switch where I'm loosing signal from my HTPC. I've just changed most of my setup and have moved to HDMI/DVI from VGA.

Anyway, the issue I'm having is that when I switch from my Sat Reciever to my PC there is no signal. I can switch back to the Sat without problem (appears to take some time to perform HDCP handshake - 5 sec or so). The switch will display the HTPC signal if the PC is booted while the input is selected, but once its not and another input is selected, the signal never comes back (I need to reboot - unplugging doesn't work).

Sources:
HD Sat receiver - Bell 9200 - using HDMI->HDMI Switch
HTPC - Radeon X1600 AGP - using DVI->HDMI Switch

Output:
Projector - Studio Experience 2HD (Sanyo Z2) - using HDMI Switch->DVI (this is HDCP capable)

I'm using the latest Catalyst drivers for Windows MCE @ 1280x720. I believe it is losing the EDID of the monitor.

Any ideas?

Thanks for your time,
Darren Schmidt

I'm having a problem with my Monoprice 5x1 switch where I'm loosing signal from my HTPC. I've just changed most of my setup and have moved to HDMI/DVI from VGA.

Anyway, the issue I'm having is that when I switch from my Sat Reciever to my PC there is no signal. I can switch back to the Sat without problem (appears to take some time to perform HDCP handshake - 5 sec or so). The switch will display the HTPC signal if the PC is booted while the input is selected, but once its not and another input is selected, the signal never comes back (I need to reboot - unplugging doesn't work).

Sources:
HD Sat receiver - Bell 9200 - using HDMI->HDMI Switch
HTPC - Radeon X1600 AGP - using DVI->HDMI Switch

Output:
Projector - Studio Experience 2HD (Sanyo Z2) - using HDMI Switch->DVI (this is HDCP capable)

I'm using the latest Catalyst drivers for Windows MCE @ 1280x720. I believe it is losing the EDID of the monitor.

Any ideas?
ATI is known for their "DVI dropout bug" but it should have been fixed in catalyst 6.x. You can search on it if you like.

This might be a different manifestation of the same bug. Basically the old bug (which existed for almost a year without fix) was if the ATI card loses DVI signal (ie you unplug the cable, switch inputs, or shutdown the monitor), when signal is returned, ATI will not reenable the DVI port.

My suggestion in your case is to get a Gefen DVI detective and your problems will go away.

Well, I was reading through this long thread with great interest and actually ready to pull the trigger.
I have a Denon 2910 with a Panasonic AE-700. It appears from what has been recently said, that this is a dreaded combination with the Monoprice. Plus, to pour more gas onto the fire, I have a 50ft HDMI cable run. :( Could it get any worse? Probably not.
I have had my theater finished for about 8 months or so. During the first 2 or 3 months I was watching DVD via HDMI straight from the player to the projector. I was watching DirecTV through component. All with no probloms. Well, after a couple of months, my 2910 started acting up (slow loads) so I sent it in for repair. While I was with-out my 2910 I switched over my HDMI connection to my DirecTV and my component to my back-up progressive scan DVD player. This is where the issues started to crop up. When ever I would switch over from component DVD, or do a direct start up to the DirecTV, I would get a snowy screen. However, the problem could be worked around by simply switching the channel a few times and the picture would be/is clear as a bell. Strange… So, finally the company I bought my 2910 from decided to just send me a new player. So I hook up the new 2910 (through HDMI of course) and now my image has lines through it with sparkles and very brief dropouts. :( So I bought a short 6 foot cable and hooked my new 2910 up to my projector to see if it was the DVD player and it works great with the short cable. I left the disc playing for about 1.5 hours with no issues. So this leads me to believe that my cable length is just borderline to long since my DirecTV works as well and I had no issues before. Now I would love to get a switcher so I can run HDMI to both of my sources and soon to my HD-DVD or BD. Does the 5 into 1 have any kind of built in amplification to get me over the top with my long run or am I going to have to shell out more money than I paid for my DVD player for an amplified switcher?
Is there any plans for a 4 into 2 or 5 into 2 switcher?
So if I understand correctly you are not using a switch.

You have a 50ft HDMI cable that worked with your original Denon 2910 DVD player, but now with the replacement 2910 using the same 50ft HDMI cable, the picture is being corrupted?

Which brand HDMI cable are you using? I think you should see if you can isolate the problem when going through the bare cable before introducing more switches and other equipment.

The monoprice 5x1 does have a builtin equalizer that cleans up the TMDS signal and I've never had trouble with 50ft with any of my equipment, but I don't have a Denon, and from past comments some people have problems with Denon and 5x1.

It could be that Denon change the manufacturing between older and newer 2910s and that is causing both the issues you are seeing with the 50ft HDMI cable and the problems others were seeing with monoprice 5x1. I remember seeing some people who were able to get the combination to work.

I think 50ft HDMI cables might be borderline for 1080p, but in my experience for the equipment I tested and 720p/1080i it has always been ok.

ATI is known for their "DVI dropout bug" but it should have been fixed in catalyst 6.x. You can search on it if you like.

This might be a different manifestation of the same bug. Basically the old bug (which existed for almost a year without fix) was if the ATI card loses DVI signal (ie you unplug the cable, switch inputs, or shutdown the monitor), when signal is returned, ATI will not reenable the DVI port.

My suggestion in your case is to get a Gefen DVI detective and your problems will go away.


Good 'ole ATI :rolleyes: I think we came to this same conclusion in the Sceptre 42" thread, where many others saw this problem - with and without the monoprice switch in the picture.


My X300SE does this even with the latest drivers. I 'audiotioned' a Radeon X1300 recently, and while it had absolutely no problems re-detecting my TV/monitor, the graphics & video playback improvement was SO marginal, I returned it forthwith.

Would you consider me a glutton for punishment if I said I was about to buy a Radeon 1600XT or 1800Pro shortly? Should I dump them and go with a GeForce 7600GT or similar instead? :) Like I said, the X1300 seemed to be fine, and like you said ... the new drivers should fix this (at least with newer cards, not with my old X300SE of course).

(sorry for the mini-hijack, feel free to respond by PM, sfhub!)

(sorry for the mini-hijack, ...From my point of view you are right on topic. I've never had much use for a switch without things connected to it. ;)

When those "things" don't work I want to know why and under what circumstances. :)

So if I understand correctly you are not using a switch.

You have a 50ft HDMI cable that worked with your original Denon 2910 DVD player, but now with the replacement 2910 using the same 50ft HDMI cable, the picture is being corrupted?

Which brand HDMI cable are you using? I think you should see if you can isolate the problem when going through the bare cable before introducing more switches and other equipment.

The monoprice 5x1 does have a builtin equalizer that cleans up the TMDS signal and I've never had trouble with 50ft with any of my equipment, but I don't have a Denon, and from past comments some people have problems with Denon and 5x1.

It could be that Denon change the manufacturing between older and newer 2910s and that is causing both the issues you are seeing with the 50ft HDMI cable and the problems others were seeing with monoprice 5x1. I remember seeing some people who were able to get the combination to work.

I think 50ft HDMI cables might be borderline for 1080p, but in my experience for the equipment I tested and 720p/1080i it has always been ok.


Correct... I am currently not using any kind of switcher. :)
Yes, the old player worked fine, but the new player seems to be having issues with the 50 foot length. The cable is from RAM Electronics. Part # HDMI-50. It is 25 AWG silver plated copper. I think it is a very good quality cable and more than capable of handling the task.
As far as isolating the problem... actually, the old player worked fine through the HDMI cable. HD works fine through the cable except for the initial hick-up with a snowy screen. Then the picture is fine.
I hooked a short 6 foot HDMI cable up to see if the problem may have been my replacement 2910 and the player worked flawlessly.
Actually I think I am right on the fringe as far as the cable being to long so perhaps the 5x1 would put me over the top. I may give the monoprice a whirl. I think it would be interesting actually to do a head to head with the Gefin 3 into 1 HDMI switcher I have been contemplating and the Monoprice 5 into 1. I really don't need a 5 into 1 anyway. When you look at the price of the Gefin at $300 but it includes 3 six foot HDMI cables, the price is really not that far off since you have to buy cables with the Monoprice.
Might be worth it to do a head to head for the piece of mind alone.

Craig

As far as isolating the problem... actually, the old player worked fine through the HDMI cable. HD works fine through the cable except for the initial hick-up with a snowy screen. Then the picture is fine.
I hooked a short 6 foot HDMI cable up to see if the problem may have been my replacement 2910 and the player worked flawlessly.
Actually I think I am right on the fringe as far as the cable being to long so perhaps the 5x1 would put me over the top. I may give the monoprice a whirl. I think it would be interesting actually to do a head to head with the Gefin 3 into 1 HDMI switcher I have been contemplating and the Monoprice 5 into 1. I really don't need a 5 into 1 anyway. When you look at the price of the Gefin at $300 but it includes 3 six foot HDMI cables, the price is really not that far off since you have to buy cables with the Monoprice.
Might be worth it to do a head to head for the piece of mind alone.
In my opinion your HDMI cable is partially contributing to the problem, but also your replacement Denon has a weaker TMDS transmitter. If the TMDS signal is crappy coming out of the player, you won't notice it on short cables, but you will notice it on longer ones. Normally it is hard to tell whether the cable is degrading the signal or the source device has a weak transmitter. However in your case you have 2 of the same model where one worked and the other doesn't, so that points the finger more at the player.

The reason I think your cable is a partial contributor is because I have friends using HD DTiVo and 50ft HDMI cable and they don't have the static issue you described. There are 2 similar symptoms for HDMI problems. Full static usually means the HDCP keys didn't get negotiated properly or something got corrupted. Sparkles usually means the keys were negotiated fine but the TMDS signal is degrading.

Regarding price, I think there is still big difference between monoprice and gefen. The cables I have gotten from Gefen in the past were 28AWG. 6ft 28AWG cables at monoprice are $5 each. So the 5x1 switch with 4 6ft HDMI cables is just $150.

monoprice has an excellent 21-day return policy so if you have equipment that is potentially having issues it is a nice feature for risk free buying. I would suggest you try the 22AWG gold-connector/silver-plated-wire 50ft cable from monoprice. If it doesn't improve your situation, you are just out a few $ shipping but if it does improve the situation, you will have avoided lots of headaches getting ancillary equipment working with your setup.

Would you consider me a glutton for punishment if I said I was about to buy a Radeon 1600XT or 1800Pro shortly? Should I dump them and go with a GeForce 7600GT or similar instead? :) Like I said, the X1300 seemed to be fine, and like you said ... the new drivers should fix this (at least with newer cards, not with my old X300SE of course).

(sorry for the mini-hijack, feel free to respond by PM, sfhub!)
Not necessarily glutton for punishment, but honestly, if you plan to use a PC graphics card in a switched DVI/HDMI environment, Gefen DVI detective does render a lot of issues non-issues. Can you get it working w/o DVI Detective? In most cases yes, but DVI detective just makes everything foolproof.

I currently use nVidia 6600GT and I can use it at 1920x1080@60Hz with my monoprice w/o issues even when not using DVI Detective, yet I still use DVI Detective because sometimes when I'm playing around with configurations, I can get the config to switch out of 1080p and my display is most happy with 1080p and won't always display the other resolutions. With DVI Detective and the current EDID I have saved, the 6600GT always comes up in 1080p.

I used to use R9800Pro and with the 5.x catalyst drivers I was using at the time, DVI Detective was virtually an absolute requirement. The DVI dropout bug was so annoying (once again that problem should have been fixed in 6.x catalyst drivers, but I switch to nVidia before 6.x catalyst came out so I can't personally attest to the fix)

In my opinion your HDMI cable is partially contributing to the problem, but also your replacement Denon has a weaker TMDS transmitter. If the TMDS signal is crappy coming out of the player, you won't notice it on short cables, but you will notice it on longer ones. Normally it is hard to tell whether the cable is degrading the signal or the source device has a weak transmitter. However in your case you have 2 of the same model where one worked and the other doesn't, so that points the finger more at the player.

The reason I think your cable is a partial contributor is because I have friends using HD DTiVo and 50ft HDMI cable and they don't have the static issue you described. There are 2 similar symptoms for HDMI problems. Full static usually means the HDCP keys didn't get negotiated properly or something got corrupted. Sparkles usually means the keys were negotiated fine but the TMDS signal is degrading.

Regarding price, I think there is still big difference between monoprice and gefen. The cables I have gotten from Gefen in the past were 28AWG. 6ft 28AWG cables at monoprice are $5 each. So the 5x1 switch with 4 6ft HDMI cables is just $150.

monoprice has an excellent 21-day return policy so if you have equipment that is potentially having issues it is a nice feature for risk free buying. I would suggest you try the 22AWG gold-connector/silver-plated-wire 50ft cable from monoprice. If it doesn't improve your situation, you are just out a few $ shipping but if it does improve the situation, you will have avoided lots of headaches getting ancillary equipment working with your setup.

Thanks for the feedback on all of this... your posts have been a major help in the learning process of all of this.
Who would have ever thought a simple switcher would require this much thought. :rolleyes: :eek:
Well, I could run a new cable but my room is a dedicated theater and my components are in another room so it would be a VERY big hassle.
It would be easier for me to add an amplifier than add/run a new cable.
I have ordered a Gefin 3 into 1 splitter. I am seriously considering ordering the MP 5 into 1 and doing a head to head and keeping the winner. :)
This way I will have piece of mind knowing I have the best picture I can achieve with my set-up.

Craig

Well, I could run a new cable but my room is a dedicated theater and my components are in another room so it would be a VERY big hassle.

It would be easier for me to add an amplifier than add/run a new cable.

I understand the hassle of running new cable so your feeling is quite reasonable IMO. The one thing I will say is you can test a new cable to see if it will make any difference much easier than installing new cable. In some ways it is a different consideration when you know there will be improvement if you go through the effort vs needing to go through the effort without knowing whether there will be improvement.

If you do end up getting an "amplifier" keep in mind when you install it, they usually go on the far end of the connection, nearest to the display. This is because most "amplifiers" are actually TMDS eye openers which function by cleaning up a degraded signal rather than boosting the initial signal strength.

I understand the hassle of running new cable so your feeling is quite reasonable IMO. The one thing I will say is you can test a new cable to see if it will make any difference much easier than installing new cable. In some ways it is a different consideration when you know there will be improvement if you go through the effort vs needing to go through the effort without knowing whether there will be improvement.

If you do end up getting an "amplifier" keep in mind when you install it, they usually go on the far end of the connection, nearest to the display. This is because most "amplifiers" are actually TMDS eye openers which function by cleaning up a degraded signal rather than boosting the initial signal strength.


OK... so if I do get the MP to compare... I may just get a 50ft cable as well to test whether a cable could rectify the issue by it self. :) :)

Thanks so much!!

Craig

Another update... I was troubleshooting last night my issue with my HTPC loosing signal to the projector after a switch.

Sometimes, I'm able to get the thing working by switching to another input (that doesn't have anything on it). If HTPC is on 1 and Sat is on 2, I would switch from 2 to 1, then select 3 then 1. I know this doesn't make sense, and I cannot recreate it every time, but sometimes it does switch and the HTPC display shows.

Where this really gets crappy is that I rebooted the PC to the BIOS screen. At that point I can switch back and forth MANY times without fail and without having to select a "phantom" input.

As it sits, I beleive, this is a Micro$oft Windows and ATI issue (mostly latter, but I always blame M$).

Why must we make things so difficult in the computing world. It can be simpler!

Darren Schmidt

Just to report that my 5-1 switch works perfectly with my SA 8300HD and OPPO 970 to a Philips 52'

Very happy with everything ... brad

As it sits, I beleive, this is a Micro$oft Windows and ATI issue (mostly latter, but I always blame M$).


That's a safe bet!

As an update on my end of things, my 'HTPC' with the ATI X300 AGAIN no longer works. I remeber having to perform driver/rollback acrobatics with the driver/catalyst to get it going, but I broke it all when I 'auditioned' an ATI Radeon X1300 from BestBuy (which, incidentally, was only barely marginally better and went back) and played around further with driver versions to get it going.

Ugh. nVidia 7600GT, here I come :)

Hi, everyone:

Great thread here. I've had the Monoprice 5x1 for a few months and I've really enjoyed it. However, I'm now having a strange problem with it. For the past couple of months, I've had only my Cable DVR (Motorola 6412) and DVD (Samsung HD-850DVD) connected to it, and it's worked fabulously. About a week ago, I plugged in my new HTPC. It has a nVidia 6600GT card, and I'm hooked up to the switch via a DVI-HDMI adapter on the card, and a Monoprice 6ft HDMI cable connected to the switch. At first, everything works correctly - I can switch between all three sources without issues. However, after a few hours or so, the switch "freezes." The input LED on the front sticks at the #1 input (the cable box), I can't switch between any of the inputs, and there's no picture from the switch. The only way I can restore it is to unplug the switch, disconnect the HDMI cable going to the PC, and then plug the switch back in. At that point, everything works fine for a few hours, then it "freezes" again ...

Also, I don't know if this is important or not, but when I unplug the switch from power, the front LED still glows, but at about half its normal brightness. Unplugging the HDMI cable from the PC turns the LED off.

Any advice on how to proceed? Would getting a DVI Detective help? Might the unit be defective, or this this a design/production flaw? Thanks in advance for any help!

Also, I don't know if this is important or not, but when I unplug the switch from power, the front LED still glows, but at about half its normal brightness. Unplugging the HDMI cable from the PC turns the LED off.

Any advice on how to proceed? Would getting a DVI Detective help? Might the unit be defective, or this this a design/production flaw? Thanks in advance for any help!
It sounds like some chip is overheating or defective.

I run Samsung HD-841, Motorola DCT-5100, and nVidia 6600GT through the switch all the time and it never locks up.

Does it only lockup if you have the 6600GT connected? What video format are you using?

I suggest getting a replacement unit from monoprice.

The reason the lights still stay on is because DVI/HDMI provides power on one of its pins.

It sounds like some chip is overheating or defective.

I run Samsung HD-841, Motorola DCT-5100, and nVidia 6600GT through the switch all the time and it never locks up.

Does it only lockup if you have the 6600GT connected? What video format are you using?

I suggest getting a replacement unit from monoprice.

The reason the lights still stay on is because DVI/HDMI provides power on one of its pins.

Thanks for the reply, 'hub. Yes, it only locks up when the 6600GT is connected. BTW, from the HTPC I'm sending it 720p (1280x720 pixels), same as my cable box and DVD player. I'll give Monoprice a call and get a replacement to try out. Thanks for the help!

I've just ordered the 5x1 monoprice switcher today. I'm hoping that it may help me get an image out of my SA8300HD PVR's HDMI output to my Optoma H78 projector's DVI input. Right now all I get is either a screen full of colorful sparklies with a resolution of 1440 x 480 or a strange resolution of 36 x 1082 and a black background.

The projector will accept DVI signals from the Oppo971 player and my HTPC. I even briefly tried out a Samsung HD850B upconverting player using HDMI and the projector accepted the signal and displayed an image.

I did one time get the H78 projector to sync with the SA8300HD PVR by first connecting the PVR to my other projector which is the Optoma H57. The H57 displayed an image flawlessly. I then unplugged the DVI cable from the H57 and connected it to the H78 and the image popped up for the first and only time I've been able to get it to work. I don't intend on having to first fire up my old pj just to get the new one to sync over HDMI with my new pj so I'm going to try the monoprice switcher in case the equalizer built in might be of some help.

I don't believe that there is any firmware update available to consumers for the SA8300HD. I suppose DVI Detective only works with HTPC connections so I'm guessing that won't help me any.

The only other thing I can think of is ordering a video processor to connect between the PVR and the projector. But that is a super expensive fix for this problem. I could send the projector in to Optoma Canada for repair but I just got it within the last 10 days and I don't really want to ship it off for this one problem when it's working just fine in every other way.

If this switch doesn't work I may have to just get a component switch and stick with analog for now.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Wayne

I think you are saying SA8300 HDMI doesn't work with HD78 DVI input even w/o the switch. If you are hoping the 5x1 switch will alleviate this situation, then that is not realistic because it is passthrough design and will expose any existing problems. If you have a repeater-style switch design, then theoretically it might repair such a situation because the switch will decrypt and reencrypt HDCP, but many SA8300 also will not work with repeater-style switches because the firmware doesn't perform the proper encryption key negotiation.

DVI detective definitely won't work because it doesn't support HDCP.

There are firmware updates for SA8300 which fix many of the problems, but they are only available from your cable operator and many of them are slow in distributing new firmware.

I'm not entirely sure from your description whether the problem is in the H78 DVI port or the SA8300 HDMI port. Did you do some other tests to isolate the problem?

Thanks for your insight sfhub! :)

The SA8300HD will send a signal out over HDMI>DVI to my Optoma H57 projector. I recently had the main board to this projector replaced under warranty because I was getting messages from the SA8300HD that the projector wasn't HDCP compliant when in fact it was supposed to be.

So, I sent the H57 in for Optoma Canada to investigate the problem and after replacing the main board I was able to get a signal through the HDMI port adapted to DVI and then out to the H57 via my 50' Ultralink Pro DVI Dual Link cable.

About two weeks ago, I purchased the Optoma H78 which I've been unable to sync with the SA8300HD except for one time. What happened was I first connected my H57 projector up to the SA8300HD and received a proper signal over HDMI>DVI and then I took the DVI cable out of the H57 and put it in the H78 and to my shock an image appeared but I haven't been able to get it back.

I guess I must have primed the signal somehow by first starting with the H57 and then switching to the H78. Of course, I'm not about to go through all that just to get a signal to the H78 every time I want to use the SA8300HD with it.

So the SA8300HD works with the H57 projector but not with the H78 unless it's first 'primed' by the H57 connection.

I have successfully sent signals over straight DVI from my Oppo player, and my HTPC to both projectors using the very same 50' Ultralink Pro Dual Link cable.

I even bought a Samsung 850B HDMI upconverting player to see if the H78 would take a signal over HDMI from anything and it worked fine. However, I suspect that there isn't any HDCP compliance issue with the player and the H78 because the content isn't real HD just upconverted. I could be wrong about this though.

So, the H78 did get an HDMI signal once from the SA8300HD after having been primed by the H57 and also the H78 received an HDMI upconverted signal to 720p and 1080i from the Samsung player. And DVI works without a hitch from anything at all.

At this point I don't really know which device might be the culprit. The cable box and H78 both work with other devices but not each other.

I was hoping that the Monoprice switcher might do the trick or maybe the DVI Detective but if you think neither will help me then I guess I need to persevere in another direction. I will be going straight HDMI to the switcher when it arrives and the brand new cable might make a difference because up until now I've been using an HDMI/DVI adapter to connect to the 50' Ultralink cable. This adapter worked fine with the Samsung player by the way.

As far as a repeater style switch goes, I could perhaps try the Octava HDMI switcher with Clear Eye but I'm not even sure that it is a repeater switch and whether my SA8300HD would perform the proper encryption key negotiation.

I haven't contacted my cable company yet to inquire about firmware updates but I suppose I could do that.

If I send in the projector to Optoma Canada, they don't have an SA8300HD PVR to use to trouble shoot the problem. I know because they admitted that to me when I sent the H57 in and they corrected the problem using the Toshiba HD-A1 player.

A high end video store suggested that I might need an extender at the projector end but the Ultralink cable is designed to carry digital signals in lengths up to 100' and it carries the SA8300HD signal to the H57 projector. So I don't think the cable is the problem. I also don't think the HDMI>DVI adaptor is at fault but who knows?

Any suggestions? :o

Wayne

I'm on my 2nd Monoprice 5 X 1 HDMI switch (returned first one for replacement), and still have a problem.

Display:
Sharp LC45GX6U (45 inch LCD panel) running 1080p direct into the panel

Sources:
Sharp AVC box (TV tuner) outputting 1080p
Mac Mini (newest Intel CoreDuo model) outputting 1080p

For months I've been manually moving the Sharp's DVI cable between the Sharp tuner box and Mac whenever I needed to switch sources, and it always works perfectly at 1080p.

Inserted Monoprice switch, using Monoprice's own 3 foot HDMI-DVI cables, and tiny HDMI-DVI converter on the end of Sharp's DVI cable.

With either the Sharp tuner or the Mac Mini, the picture through the switch will be perfect (no sparklies or anything) for 5-10 minutes, and then it will just go black -- complete loss of picture. The green LEDs on the switch will continue to show source signals are being received by the switch, despite loss of picture.

I've tried all kinds of permutations, like changing the order of device turn-on, swapping cables, swapping switch ports, plugging power into the same or different power strips and outlets, and now even trying a 2nd Monoprice switch.

The only way to (temporarily) get the picture back is to recycle the power on the LCD panel and Sharp tuner, so I suspect this is some type of HDCP handshake-related problem caused by the switch.

Again, this is my 2nd Monoprice switch, so I doubt I got 2 bad ones. Too bad, because I really like the size and looks of the Monoprice (not to mention the low cost). I've just ordered the more expensive Gefen HDMI switch to see if it makes any difference. Stay tuned...

- Dave

I'm on my 2nd Monoprice 5 X 1 HDMI switch (returned first one for replacement), and still have a problem.

Display:
Sharp LC45GX6U (45 inch LCD panel) running 1080p direct into the panel

I have the same setup. Have you tried port #4 on the 5x1 switch for the AVC?

Any suggestions? :o

It sounds like the SA8300 is having problems negotiating video formats with the H78 and you got it to work by negotiating the video format with H57 then switching the cables.

My best suggestion is to try reducing the # of variables. Instead of 50' cable and DVI->HDMI adapter, try 6ft DVI->HDMI cable. You would be surprised how many problems can be attributed to the little DVI->HDMI adapters.

Thanks! I'm getting an HDMI extender from Octava and the Monoprice switcher and will be using a straight HDMI cable from the SA8300HD to the Monoprice switcher instead of the HDMI>DVI adapter.

Hopefully, making some changes like this will fix the problem.

Things were much simpler when everything was done through coaxial! :)

Wayne

i thought the monoprice switch has a built in feature for longer length cables - not true? Is there a reason you chose monoprice Vs octavia switch. I thought octavia also made a hdmi switch - are they not in the same price range.

I have been waiting to find a switch without problems (or less trouble). Actually, I need a 3X2 or 4X2. Monoprice has a 5X4 but its going into Gefen 4X2 price range (close).
monoprice: Great customer service and price but too many people reporting trouble.
Octavia Switch: Similar price but not enough info (good or bad).
Gefen: too Expensive (it might be my only choice). Is Gefen a switch without problems (if there is even such a thing) or is it that not enough of the forum members have bought it because of the price?

I've got both the Gefen (one 4X1 with separate digital audio and one 2X1 with analog audio) and the Monoprice 4X1, but the Monoprice has been more problem free in my setups. There just seem to be so many variables, you've got to try almost everything available. The Gefens are good, but until either is in your system, you just don't know.

i thought the monoprice switch has a built in feature for longer length cables - not true? Is there a reason you chose monoprice Vs octavia switch. I thought octavia also made a hdmi switch - are they not in the same price range.

I have been waiting to find a switch without problems (or less trouble). Actually, I need a 3X2 or 4X2. Monoprice has a 5X4 but its going into Gefen 4X2 price range (close).
monoprice: Great customer service and price but too many people reporting trouble.
Octavia Switch: Similar price but not enough info (good or bad).
Gefen: too Expensive (it might be my only choice). Is Gefen a switch without problems (if there is even such a thing) or is it that not enough of the forum members have bought it because of the price?
Both monoprice and octava have builtin equalizers which allow for longer length operations.

monoprice and octava use the same chipsets so their properties will be very similar.

I have yet to see a switcher that has no problems on any equipment because sometimes the problems are with the source and are not evident until a switch is introduced.

IMO monoprice gets the most positive reports and reports of issues because they have the most switchers out there being used by AVS members.

If you want an x2 switch go with Gefen. If you need an x1, I would suggest you go with monoprice because most likely it work fine, the price is great, and if it doesn't you have an excellent return policy.

audvid,

I chose the Monoprice switch over the Octava because of this thread and the general member support for the product here on AVS. Also, the Octava is more expensive @ $200.00. The Octava switch has a proprietary feature called 'Clear Eye' which is basically the same as Monoprice's equalization.

One thing that Monoprice hasn't built into this switch as far as I know is an automatic live input sensor. Octava has something called Smartscan to handle this.

Anyway, I should be getting this Monoprice switch sometime this coming week I hope and am crossing my fingers that by using this switch and the Octava extender and different cables, I might be able to solve my syncing problem with the H78 and the SA8300HD.

Wayne

Problem solved! :)

I received both the Octava HDMI Extender and the Monoprice 5x1 Switcher yesterday. Exactly 7 days from California to my residence for the Monoprice including the Independence Day Holiday so thanks to Monoprice for a quick delivery. They also claimed that the switcher is only worth $10.00 so I wouldn't have to pay tariffs, duties etc.. when the product crossed the border so again kudos to Monoprice. :)

The bottom line is I now have both products incorporated into the video chain and the HDMI signal problems I was having from my SA8300HD PVR are now history. I can't tell you which device solved it or whether it was a combination of both or just
going from an HDMI>DVI adapter to a straight HDMI cable into the switcher. I'm not about to dismantle the chain just out of curiosity to find out whether the problem would be still solved with only one of the two products in the mix. I am curious but you know the old adage, if it ain't broke....

Boy this switcher is fast! I have my HTPC, Oppo and PVR all plugged into it and when I use the remote, sometimes the image is immediately present without any lag time at all upon changing inputs. At most it's only a few seconds, mainly when I change to the PVR input.

The Octava HDMI Extender is an interesting product as well. It's about half the size of a pack of cigarettes, I mean it's really tiny! It has a bright blue light which shines when it registers a digital signal so I knew right away when I attached the same HDMI>DVI adapter that I had been using at the PVR end, to the Octava, that the adapter was passing a successful digital signal. Nice. Eliminates trial and error and guessing games.

I have a 50' DVI cable going from the Monoprice to the Octava which is six feet of HDMI>DVI cable away from my projector.

Oh and by the way I forgot to mention something fantastic and that is that the signal reception is better than before. Not only are there no sparklies but the image appears to be brighter and cleaner. I can't really explain it any more efficiently than that. It's just a noticeable improvement that was somewhat unexpected.

I would recommend either of these products to anyone, especially in a situation where there are signal issues.

Wayne

Glad to hear it worked out well for you.

Does anyone have any info on whether Monoprice is shipping the revised version of the 5x1 switch? I'm not in a great hurry, and it seems the revised version might likely be more trouble free. Anyone agree or disagree?

FWIW, the company I work for just came out with a in-house designed 4x1 switch/repeater, with installers/enthusiasts in mind. I wrote the auto-switching code after playing with a bunch of others' designs (which often puke on terrible sources such as HDMI-equipped DirecTV boxes)..

http://www.radiient.com/s.nl/it.A/id.30/.f?sc=2&category=41

FWIW, the company I work for just came out with a in-house designed 4x1 switch/repeater, with installers/enthusiasts in mind. I wrote the auto-switching code after playing with a bunch of others' designs (which often puke on terrible sources such as HDMI-equipped DirecTV boxes)..

http://www.radiient.com/s.nl/it.A/id.30/.f?sc=2&category=41

$$$$
Where's the JawDrop smiley? :eek:

Since you're blatantly advertising it here (not that I personally mind/care), how about some more detailed technical info and pros (too much to ask for cons?) of this product, so we (at least those who might understand it) can chew on it?

The 'detailed' info webpage is all fluff.

Visually very appealing, and interesting Pro remote (even more $$?). Good dimensions too. But functionally ... ?

<edit> (Please address the comparison/virtue extolling) From the POV of the end-user; any benefits? I see all the glitzy Installer frills, but I personally don't give half a hoot about those.

FWIW - my monoPrice 5x1 has been incredibly flawless with Motorola (Comcast), Dish (811), nVidia and ATI video cards. Haven't (and never will) try DirecTV HD(Lite)

<edit 2> The repeater capability advertised IS impressive, so I see ONE tangible benefit so far (non-aesthetic)

Does anyone have any info on whether Monoprice is shipping the revised version of the 5x1 switch? I'm not in a great hurry, and it seems the revised version might likely be more trouble free. Anyone agree or disagree?

AFAI can tell, the problems have been with connected hardware and cabling, so far - not the switch. I doubt I've directly heard reports of the switch failing to pass-through anything that a direct cable of comparable nett length successfully did!

Correct me if I'm wrong - I know MINE has been working flawlessly (see above post)

One thing that Monoprice hasn't built into this switch as far as I know is an automatic live input sensor. Octava has something called Smartscan to handle this.



FWIW, my monoprice switch happily switches to the next available (1->5->1) live input when the 'current' one dies/reboots/powers off or just 'does an ATI'. Hmm, or 'does a Windows' ;)

Really!? :confused:

I'll have to try to emulate that with mine.

Wayne

Sorry, since it just came out, very few people know about our switch, so I was hoping it would be of interest, even if I have a conflict of said interest :). I definitely didn't sign up for avs to post, I've been here a while to monitor findings on my Aquos tv :)

One pro was how long we delayed shipping in order to test and retest with a grey gradient test pattern at 165mhz. That pattern at the max single-link bw tends to show artifacts if anything will. We did a lot of tweaks to maximize signal integrity (though I don't understand as much on that end, being a software guy).

The only con for me so far is that being a small company, we haven't made a DVI connector version. I want to replace the Gefen I own (I'm using it for a direct-to-panel hack to get 1080p in on my Sharp LC45GX6U), since the Gefen is always switching on me (overlap in the IR codes with my receiver's volume, not fixable using the provided dip switches). So I'll have to get some DVI->HDMI cables...

Another tidbit, unrelated to our box, is that in testing a ton of lengths and cables, we saw big variations in quality. So yes, a cable can definitely make the difference in whether a setup will work or not, especially when you're talking about long cables (>=15m)... At 20m, you want a heavy cable.

......I've just ordered the more expensive Gefen HDMI switch to see if it makes any difference. Stay tuned...
- Dave Your comments and experience with Gefen Vs Monoprice would be appreciated.

Hey Guys,

In a week I'll be receiving my first HDMI display.

I need a switcher to handle all my HDMI components. The HDX-501
sounds perfect, and it's getting rave reviews here.

I wrote SFHUB an email but let me ask here....

1. Is the new revised version of the switcher now available from monoprice?

2. Will the Harmony 880 successfully work with this switcher and are the
instructions on page 2 (I think) of this thread by SFHUB still workable?

In fact, if someone wants to repost the instructions of setting up the
Harmony to work with this switcher (I think you have to add a delay?) it
would be appreciated.

Thanks

What was the revision going to add? I just got my switch last week and it definitely works as advertised.

I did misunderstand the autoscanning, I thought it would work like my 1154A and switch based on device priority rather than power state alone. The monoprice implementation of automatic switching definitely works for me when I pull the cables, but apparently my HR10-250 always appears as powered on, even in Standby.

.... 2. Will the Harmony 880 successfully work with this switcher ....

Thanks

I have a 676 and recently purchased the 2x switch. When I configured the Harmony for my switch, they also had the 5x switch in the Harmony database.

2. Will the Harmony 880 successfully work with this switcher and are the
instructions on page 2 (I think) of this thread by SFHUB still workable?

In fact, if someone wants to repost the instructions of setting up the
Harmony to work with this switcher (I think you have to add a delay?) it
would be appreciated.

Looks like you got your answers already.

I've since been told Harmony should support monprice switcher out of the box.

If you find you need to add a delay, here were the instructions I posted earlier.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7289914&&#post7289914

From Ronald:
1. Is the new revised version of the switcher now available from Monoprice?

Ronald, here is response I received from Sean at Monoprice just a couple of days ago:

The factory is expected to ship out the revised switcher tomorrow via DHL. Hopely, we can have it by the weekend. Please keep checking. Thanks.

Should you have any question, please feel free to email us.
Thank you for doing business with us.

Regards,

Sean
Monoprice, Inc.

I'm on my 2nd Monoprice 5 X 1 HDMI switch (returned first one for replacement), and still have a problem.

Display:
Sharp LC45GX6U (45 inch LCD panel) running 1080p direct into the panel

Sources:
Sharp AVC box (TV tuner) outputting 1080p
Mac Mini (newest Intel CoreDuo model) outputting 1080p

For months I've been manually moving the Sharp's DVI cable between the Sharp tuner box and Mac whenever I needed to switch sources, and it always works perfectly at 1080p.

Inserted Monoprice switch, using Monoprice's own 3 foot HDMI-DVI cables, and tiny HDMI-DVI converter on the end of Sharp's DVI cable.

With either the Sharp tuner or the Mac Mini, the picture through the switch will be perfect (no sparklies or anything) for 5-10 minutes, and then it will just go black -- complete loss of picture. The green LEDs on the switch will continue to show source signals are being received by the switch, despite loss of picture.

I've tried all kinds of permutations, like changing the order of device turn-on, swapping cables, swapping switch ports, plugging power into the same or different power strips and outlets, and now even trying a 2nd Monoprice switch.

The only way to (temporarily) get the picture back is to recycle the power on the LCD panel and Sharp tuner, so I suspect this is some type of HDCP handshake-related problem caused by the switch.

Again, this is my 2nd Monoprice switch, so I doubt I got 2 bad ones. Too bad, because I really like the size and looks of the Monoprice (not to mention the low cost). I've just ordered the more expensive Gefen HDMI switch to see if it makes any difference. Stay tuned...

- Dave

OK, here's my result -- with your equipment your mileage may vary (YMMV).

I replaced by Monoprice switch with the cheapest/smallest Gefen switch (2 HDMI in, 1 HDMI out), since I'm only trying to switch between 2 sources.

The bottom line: The Gefen works perfectly and I'm really happy with it despite the price that was twice that of the Monoprice 5-port switch.

I can now turn on my Sharp LCD panel and then connect to Sharp's AVC tuner box or my Mac Mini at 1080p without any issues. It doesn't matter if the computer was turned off or previously in sleep mode, and I can freely switch components on or off in any order with the Gefen, without causing the loss of signal I *always* experienced with the Monoprice switch. I'm using the exact same set of cables with both switches.

My guess (and I'm only guessing here), is that the Monoprice switch cut some corners in implementing HDMI/HDCP repeater functionality such that the Sharp LCD sees a failed protocol handshake with the Monoprice. OR...maybe the Sharp LC45GX6U early implementation of HDMI/HDCP is somehow non-standard, so that it only works with the Gefen.

I think we're all still pioneers/early adopters of HDMI, and the manufacturers haven't yet gotten all the interoperability issues settled yet. I continue to read of many people having HDMI compatibility problems with their particular mix of gear.

- Dave

The bottom line: The Gefen works perfectly and I'm really happy with it despite the price that was twice that of the Monoprice 5-port switch.
- Dave Thanks for taking the time to post. This information is so very useful to me. The monoprice seems to have such good value and customer service. I guess if I don't want headaches, I should spring for a Gefen. I will start looking on ebay. A used gefen should be no worse than new.

The factory is expected to ship out the revised switcher tomorrow via DHL. Hopely, we can have it by the weekend.


That's cute!

Mine just shipped out yesterday. Talk about missing an opportunity by a day :)

I can now turn on my Sharp LCD panel and then connect to Sharp's AVC tuner box or my Mac Mini at 1080p without any issues. It doesn't matter if the computer was turned off or previously in sleep mode, and I can freely switch components on or off in any order with the Gefen, without causing the loss of signal I *always* experienced with the Monoprice switch. I'm using the exact same set of cables with both switches.

My guess (and I'm only guessing here), is that the Monoprice switch cut some corners in implementing HDMI/HDCP repeater functionality such that the Sharp LCD sees a failed protocol handshake with the Monoprice. OR...maybe the Sharp LC45GX6U early implementation of HDMI/HDCP is somehow non-standard, so that it only works with the Gefen.

I think we're all still pioneers/early adopters of HDMI, and the manufacturers haven't yet gotten all the interoperability issues settled yet. I continue to read of many people having HDMI compatibility problems with their particular mix of gear.
There must be something else going on because I have the exact same LC-45GX6U display and I'm using my original 5x1 to connect both my AVC tuner box and nVidia 6600GT card and I don't have the blacking out issue you described. Did you ever have a chance to test the AVC connected to port #4 of the 5x1.

There must be something else going on because I have the exact same LC-45GX6U display and I'm using my original 5x1 to connect both my AVC tuner box and nVidia 6600GT card and I don't have the blacking out issue you described. Did you ever have a chance to test the AVC connected to port #4 of the 5x1.

Yes, I tried the Sharp AVC tuner box on all Monoprice switch ports with consistent (poor) results. But even if it had worked on port #4 only, that's not a great outcome if the other switch ports somehow don't work properly with the AVC.

I'm intrigued by your experience with your LC45GX6U display and success with the Monoprice switch. Do you have all 3 of the "hydra" cables of the AVC tuner box connected to your LCD panel (with the DVI connection going through the Monoprice switch via DVI-HDMI cables), so you can still obtain AVC audio out of the Sharp panel's bottom-mounted speakers? (That's my configuration.)

Or do you have just a DVI connection (converted to HDMI and passed through your Monoprice switch) without connecting both of the other 2 Sharp cables (the ones used for audio and panel control)?

- Dave

Yes, I tried the Sharp AVC tuner box on all Monoprice switch ports with consistent (poor) results. But even if it had worked on port #4 only, that's not a great outcome if the other switch ports somehow don't work properly with the AVC.

I'm intrigued by your experience with your LC45GX6U display and success with the Monoprice switch. Do you have all 3 of the "hydra" cables of the AVC tuner box connected to your LCD panel (with the DVI connection going through the Monoprice switch via DVI-HDMI cables), so you can still obtain AVC audio out of the Sharp panel's bottom-mounted speakers? (That's my configuration.)

Or do you have just a DVI connection (converted to HDMI and passed through your Monoprice switch) without connecting both of the other 2 Sharp cables (the ones used for audio and panel control)?
I understand, but if it did work on port #4 it would help diagnose the problem.

Yes I have all 3 cables connected. The svideo-like cable is for audio only. It only matters if you want audio sent from AVC to the display/speakers. It isn't critical for things to work but I have it connected.

The MDP-20 cable is for control information. One must have both MDP-20 and DVI hydra cables connected or the AVC will not startup properly (you'll get the red status light rather than blue status light and if you do it 5 times in a row, you'll need to reset your display using the service menu) You can use the panel without the MDP-20 connected (ie if you want to use a computer), but if you want to use the AVC, MDP-20 and DVI must be connected. I mention this not because I think you are not aware, but just to point out that I must have at least 2 of the 3 cables connected to use the AVC.

In short, I have all 3 cables connected and the AVC is fully functional. I watch TV and movies from my Oppo this way all the time.

I'm using 50ft HDMI cables from the 5x1 to the display with a HDMI->DVI adapter and 6ft DVI->HDMI cable from the AVC to the switch. The reason I'm using the 50ft cable is not for need, but for testing purposes. I don't have matching 50ft MDP-20 cables.

Looks like you got your answers already.

I've since been told Harmony should support monprice switcher out of the box.

If you find you need to add a delay, here were the instructions I posted earlier.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7289914&&#post7289914

I haven't kept up w/ this thread, but my Harmony 880 works with the monoprice 5 port HDMI switch released this past Feb.

I understand, but if it did work on port #4 it would help diagnose the problem.

Yes I have all 3 cables connected. The svideo-like cable is for audio only. It only matters if you want audio sent from AVC to the display/speakers. It isn't critical for things to work but I have it connected.

The MDP-20 cable is for control information. One must have both MDP-20 and DVI hydra cables connected or the AVC will not startup properly (you'll get the red status light rather than blue status light and if you do it 5 times in a row, you'll need to reset your display using the service menu) You can use the panel without the MDP-20 connected (ie if you want to use a computer), but if you want to use the AVC, MDP-20 and DVI must be connected. I mention this not because I think you are not aware, but just to point out that I must have at least 2 of the 3 cables connected to use the AVC.

In short, I have all 3 cables connected and the AVC is fully functional. I watch TV and movies from my Oppo this way all the time.

I'm using 50ft HDMI cables from the 5x1 to the display with a HDMI->DVI adapter and 6ft DVI->HDMI cable from the AVC to the switch. The reason I'm using the 50ft cable is not for need, but for testing purposes. I don't have matching 50ft MDP-20 cables.

Sounds like the ONLY difference in our configurations is the length of our cables. You're using 50' DVI between the switch and panel, whereas I'm using the original 12' DVI cable supplied by Sharp (with a 1-inch DVI-HDMI adapter from Monoprice). And you're using a 6 foot DVI-HDMI cable between the AVC box and the switch, whereas I'm using a 3 foot DVI-HDMI Monoprice cable.

You might test with a shorter than 50' cable and see if it causes problems with the Monoprice switch. One theory would be that the Sharp panel is sensitive to an overboosted HDMI signal caused by the Monoprice switch which causes my panel to lose sync, whereas your long 50-foot cable length attenuates the signal sufficiently to prevent problems. Unfortunately I don't have a 50-foot DVI cable, so I can't replicate your configuration.

It would also be useful to know if the Monoprice switch is acting as just an HDMI amplifier, passing the AVC's digital bitstream straight through to the panel. Or, does it function as an HDMI repeater which actively participates in the HDMI handshakes (i.e., the AVC box exchanges protocols/signaling with the switch, and then the switch talks to the Sharp display via a separate protocol handshake) thus regenerating the digital bitstream? The Gefen 2X1 switch is advertised as being a full HDMI repeater -- I couldn't determine what my Monoprice 5X1 switch does.

- Dave

What improvements are being made to the revised switcher just coming out?

Sounds like the ONLY difference in our configurations is the length of our cables. You're using 50' DVI between the switch and panel, whereas I'm using the original 12' DVI cable supplied by Sharp (with a 1-inch DVI-HDMI adapter from Monoprice). And you're using a 6 foot DVI-HDMI cable between the AVC box and the switch, whereas I'm using a 3 foot DVI-HDMI Monoprice cable.

You might test with a shorter than 50' cable and see if it causes problems with the Monoprice switch. One theory would be that the Sharp panel is sensitive to an overboosted HDMI signal caused by the Monoprice switch which causes my panel to lose sync, whereas your long 50-foot cable length attenuates the signal sufficiently to prevent problems. Unfortunately I don't have a 50-foot DVI cable, so I can't replicate your configuration.

It would also be useful to know if the Monoprice switch is acting as just an HDMI amplifier, passing the AVC's digital bitstream straight through to the panel. Or, does it function as an HDMI repeater which actively participates in the HDMI handshakes (i.e., the AVC box exchanges protocols/signaling with the switch, and then the switch talks to the Sharp display via a separate protocol handshake) thus regenerating the digital bitstream? The Gefen 2X1 switch is advertised as being a full HDMI repeater -- I couldn't determine what my Monoprice 5X1 switch does.

- Dave
The first post in this thread has all the cables I tested with. Look at scenario #1.

I tested Sharp AVC with
28AWG HDMI Cables - 3ft, 6ft, 10ft, 15ft
24AWG HDMI Cables - 3ft, 6ft, 10ft, 15ft, 25ft, 33ft, 50ft
22AWG HDMI Cables - 50ft

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640183

The 5x1 is a passthrough design. There is an equalization feature which AFAICT seems to be an eye opening feature for the TMDS signal. Many repeater style switches have problems with cable set top boxes because the STBs have a bug where they don't support the additional key negotiation required by repeaters.

Which Gefen 2x1 are you using? The ones in the past were passthrough design also. I didn't look very hard but the few I saw on Gefen's website seemed to still be passthrough design (or at least did not mention repeater design). The x2 and higher I think are probably repeater design, but the x1's (at least in the past) have been passthrough design.

What improvements are being made to the revised switcher just coming out?
My understanding was it was to address some isolated issues that were pointed out on this thread. I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you have issues I'm sure monoprice would let you swap. They have a no restocking return policy.

sflub: Are you suggesting that a pass thru design might have less problems than the 'boost for long cable run' type design? I thought monoprice and octavia were both the 'equalization/amplification/boos' design to enable longer cable runs? What is equalization - does it help with the long cable run - if so, could you still call it a pass thru? I am not familiar enough with the terms.

Is it because the gefen 2X1 is pass thru only that its working well for uberanalyst. Is it possible that gefen 4X2 might also have similar problems (if in fact it has equalization/boost feature for longer cable)