Lets talk about the New Panasonic 250GB HD-DVR STB, that is soon to be going into production for Comcast Cable.

:cool:

I have begun to hear some rumers that Comcast in SE & SC PA will be getting them in stock to replace Motorola DCT series STB.

Some reported specs.

The Panasonic boxes will provide HD DVR capabilities, and offer triple tuners and a minimum of 250GB of storage--almost double the amount available on Comcast's existing DVR set-tops. The boxes will also have both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4/H.264 decoder capabilities: Comcast says that H.264 will not only allow higher video compression rates, but also allow consumers to use their televisions to "enjoy media elements commonly available on the Internet." In addition, the boxes will feature USB 2.0 functionality, allowing them to be connected to other media devices, such as digital cameras. The deal calls for Panasonic to initially supply Comcast with 250,000 of the boxes, and Comcast will have the option of acquiring up to a million of the boxes in the first year, and of ordering additional volumes in subsequent years. The first 250,000 boxes will be loaded with Panasonic's OCAP middleware.

I am all for it, 120GB is great for my parent's Analog TV, but not for my HDTV, although I was going to get a second one.

Even with a 250GB DVR, I would still get two DVRs, as I want to have 4 tuners, as 3 are needed sometimes.

What rumors are you hearing as for a rollout month?
Because I might just hold out on getting a second DVR.

Do you think they would give out two to one customer?

So what are the key differences, besides 250GB?

Check this link for some details: Three Tuners?
http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html

Check this link for some details: Three Tuners?
http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html

Thanks Walter, I updated my first post with some of the info provided.

I am all for it, 120GB is great for my parent's Analog TV, but not for my HDTV, although I was going to get a second one.

Even with a 250GB DVR, I would still get two DVRs, as I want to have 4 tuners, as 3 are needed sometimes.

What rumors are you hearing as for a rollout month?
Because I might just hold out on getting a second DVR.

Do you think they would give out two to one customer?

So what are the key differences, besides 250GB?

If we heard right, they should begin consumer production soon. I would expect them to be available by July - Sept. area.

From what several people are reporting, Comcast has started to run low on the 6200, 6208, 6412 STB. I have not heard anything about DCT-3412's out of stock yet.

Great info.

Any info. on the dimensions of this DVR?

Three tuners! Yee..ha :D :cool:
Record three programs while watching a recording program.

Now, I didn't see anything about networking these DVRs with other boxes in the home. For HD, the other boxes would need to be HD anyway, I think. And I read in the other thread, that HD STBs (non-DVRs) are phased out in ADS areas. So, I guess they just will let people get two of these, if need be? (If not, initially, then eventually.)

OMG, if our Comcast gets these I'm going to camp out and wait for one :)

Great info.

Any info. on the dimensions of this DVR?

Three tuners! Yee..ha :D :cool:
Record three programs while watching a recording program.

Now, I didn't see anything about networking these DVRs with other boxes in the home. For HD, the other boxes would need to be HD anyway, I think. And I read in the other thread, that HD STBs (non-DVRs) are phased out in ADS areas. So, I guess they just will let people get two of these, if need be? (If not, initially, then eventually.)

The 64xx & 34xx STb have 3 tuners.

1 OOB Tuner - Guide Data, STB data flow
2 QAM Cable Tuner (64xx have a duel Analog / QAM tuner)
3 QAM Cable Tuner (64xx have a duel Analog / QAM tuner)

I am not sure if there is a 3rd. QAM Cable Tuner in the panasonic. (it would be nice!

Would it? Wouldn't that mean another splitter and hence more signal degredation?

No mention of Firewire. :(

No mention of Firewire. :(

MSO's are required by law to have at least one working firewire port on all current and new Cable STB. There is a thread on this subject here on AVS.

(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include both a DVI or HDMI interface and an IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers.

No mention of Firewire. :(

It will have to have firewire. If it does not, that means it will be breaking FCC rules as pointed out by scanpa.

The 64xx & 34xx STb have 3 tuners.

1 OOB Tuner - Guide Data, STB data flow
2 QAM Cable Tuner (64xx have a duel Analog / QAM tuner)
3 QAM Cable Tuner (64xx have a duel Analog / QAM tuner)

I am not sure if there is a 3rd. QAM Cable Tuner in the panasonic. (it would be nice!
For the 6400 series, I think you mean to say, it has two Analog / QAM tuners or dual-Analog/QAM tuners once. :)

As for the number of QAM tuners advertised, Motorola calls their latest DVRs 'dual-tuner', and Panny is calling their DVRs 'triple-tuner', IIRC. So, that tells me it has three QAM tuners. It makes sense, as people only care about how many tuners they can use to record or watch; any other description would confuse people.

It will have to have firewire. If it does not, that means it will be breaking FCC rules as pointed out by scanpa.Don't they have to be able to provide you a STB with firewire? So if you asked for firewire they could offer you the 3412.

Don't they have to be able to provide you a STB with firewire? So if you asked for firewire they could offer you the 3412.

no, an IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers.


It's going to have 2 FW ports.

Would I be correct in assuming that this DVR will be all Digital?
I can't see tham having three analog tuners.
We have ADS and 3412, so it would work here.

Would I be correct in assuming that this DVR will be all Digital?
I can't see tham having three analog tuners.
We have ADS and 3412, so it would work here.

AFAIK, Yes it is a All Digital or ADS cable STB like the Moto DCT-3412 STB. No Analog.

One thing to note is that these OCAP based boxes can not (and will not) be deployed anywhere untill cable's OCAP based applications (guide, VOD, etc) are ready and deployed. Ie, the current iGuide, VOD, and other applications running on your cable box won't run on these boxes. They need to deploy OCAP versions ... which they have been working on for a while but haven't actually deployed yet.

Comcast has said that they expect to deploy OCAP later this year in the following markets:
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Denver, Colorado
Union, New Jersey
Boston, Massachusetts
http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/leading_cable_e.html

Those markets should be the first to see these new OCAP based boxes ...

Is there any indication that the Comcast/Tivo option will be available on the Panasonic boxes? The Tivo CEO only mentioned the Motorola platfrom in his quarterly press conference. It would be a shame if Comcast charges a premium for Tivo and then confines it to older generation hardware.

Also, where does this leave the future of multiroom media sharing? I thought Comcast was buying into Motorola's "WHMS".

Yes, I too was wondering what DVR functionality we should expect. Any one know? For example, would the boxes have TiVo, or perhaps a OCAP version of the existing DVR software?

Mainly I would like to see: a) a quieter box that runs a lot cooler, b) better responsiveness of the box (i.e. faster channel changes, and most importantly stop hanging for 30 seconds between remote control commands at random!), c) support for extra HD space via external drives, d) VERY key would be the ability to control the box (set records, etc) from a remote location on the net. Any word about any of these capabilities?

Also, where does this leave the future of multiroom media sharing? I thought Comcast was buying into Motorola's "WHMS".

In Jan. at CES, Moto was demonstrating a multi-room system using the 6412 units. In my opinion it was no where near being a finished product. I didn't spend much time looking at it, tho. My main question was: "Have any of your cable clients asked that the SATA port be activated?" The answer was: "No". As an aside both reps i spoke to admitted that you ran out of room fast using the unit for HD recording.

...mike

In Jan. at CES, Moto was demonstrating a multi-room system using the 6412 units. In my opinion it was no where near being a finished product. I didn't spend much time looking at it, tho. My main question was: "Have any of your cable clients asked that the SATA port be activated?" The answer was: "No". As an aside both reps i spoke to admitted that you ran out of room fast using the unit for HD recording.

...mike


Motorola has sent every STB that Comcast has ordered with a SATA port Active & Installed. It has nothing to do with Motorola! It is Comcast.

Comcast has not turned it on in the settings at the head end, nor have they added the drivers into the firmware currently downloaded to the subscribers.

This topic has been covered at least 25 times already in over 10 topics.

Does Comcast intend to stop buying Motorola boxes, or to begin replacing Motorola boxes in the field with other brands?

Does Comcast intend to stop buying Motorola boxes, or to begin replacing Motorola boxes in the field with other brands?

In areas that the Head End is upgraded to OCAP abilities, then the local office will get the Panasonic STB.

They still have 3 years left in there Motorola Deal. The 3412 / 6412p3 STB are still going to be used for the Home Media Center & the TiVo Software upgrade.

In areas that the Head End is upgraded to OCAP abilities, then the local office will get the Panasonic STB.

They still have 3 years left in there Motorola Deal. The 3412 / 6412p3 STB are still going to be used for the Home Media Center & the TiVo Software upgrade.
I have a 6412 with DVI, I don't know if it is a p1 or p2.
(Funny, I never heard of p2 until p3 arrived, maybe comacst never saw the p1?)
Does that mean I can't get HMC or Tivo?
Of course, I could swap the box for a 3412.

Regardless, as much as HMC is great, I think 250GB HDD and three tuners is better. I think I would swap for a Panny instead.

How do I find out if our Cable Headend has been upgraded, here in the Willow Grove, PA service area?
Do you have a list?

Is there any indication that the Comcast/Tivo option will be available on the Panasonic boxes?Tivo would have to make an OCAP version of their software to run on these boxes. I have not seen a 'definitive' source for whether Tivo is 1) writing software that will run natively on the Motorola boxes or 2) writing OCAP software that will run on the Motorola boxes with a middleware implementation.

If they are doing 1 ... makes it unlikely you'll see a Tivo offering on the new OCAP boxes any time soon.

If 2 ... makes it more likely you'll see a Tivo offering on the new OCAP boxes sooner.

Like I said ... I don't know which they're doing. I think they are going the "native" application route (number 1). But that's just my gut ... I don't have a 'definitive' source.Also, where does this leave the future of multiroom media sharing? I thought Comcast was buying into Motorola's "WHMS".Comcast has said several times that they are looking at / evaluating multiroom functionality / platforms. I don't think they have ever tied themselves to one particular vendor / solution. There's lots of different vendors / solutions for them to choose from.

Do you have a list?This is the list of markets Comcast expects to upgrade to OCAP by the end of the year:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7143118&&#post7143118

I don't know about the Motorola boxes ... but the Scientific Atlanta boxes have an "applications" page in the diagnostic screens. You can usually tell from this page if there is any OCAP software running ...

This is the list of markets Comcast expects to upgrade to OCAP by the end of the year:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7143118&&#post7143118

I don't know about the Motorola boxes ... but the Scientific Atlanta boxes have an "applications" page in the diagnostic screens. You can usually tell from this page if there is any OCAP software running ...

The SA STB will not run OCAP, they will run there own version of middleware that will do the same thing.

as for Motorola, the DCT-34xx series STB is already OCAP ready and will be used with the new Panasonic HD DVR STB...

The SA STB will not run OCAP, they will run there own version of middleware that will do the same thing.

as for Motorola, the DCT-34xx series STB is already OCAP ready and will be used with the new Panasonic HD DVR STB...
Do you mean Motorola systems have become OCAP-ready and those areas can use the 3412 and the Panny DVR?

What then would happen to my 6412, is it still compatible?

What will happen first......

I get FW 12.22 or I get a Panasonic STB?

Do you mean Motorola systems have become OCAP-ready and those areas can use the 3412 and the Panny DVR?

What then would happen to my 6412, is it still compatible?

Sorry, yes the 6412p3 is also OCAP ready. But no, none of the cable plants are fully up and running OCAP middleware & software for subscribers yet.

Please excuse my ignorance but, what is OCAP?

(I have a 6412II and III, in metro Detroit)

Please excuse my ignorance but, what is OCAP?

(I have a 6412II and III, in metro Detroit)

1) Open Cable

http://www.opencable.com/


2) OCAP

http://www.opencable.com/ocap/ocap.html

Comcast OCAP & Panasonic OCAP

Panasonic and Comcast Announce Industry-First Agreement for
Enhanced OCAP HD-DVR Set-Top Boxes and OCAP Software License
- Jan 4, 2006 07:00 PM (PR Newswire)

Collaboration to Simplify and Enhance the Home Entertainment
Experience With Seamless Integration of Digital Cable Set-Top Boxes
and CE Devices


LAS VEGAS, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Panasonic, the principal
U.S. subsidiary of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (NYSE:MC),
and Comcast Corporation (Nasdaq: CMCSK, CMCSA) today announced the
industry's first agreement for the manufacture and deployment of
Comcast's new series of digital cable set-top boxes, referred to as
"RNG." These set-top boxes will be compliant with the OpenCable(TM)
Application Platform (OCAP(TM)) specifications. In another industry
first, the companies have agreed to make Panasonic's OCAP middleware
available to Comcast, as well as to jointly explore and develop
extensions to the OCAP specifications. The new boxes and software
will improve and simplify the consumer's home entertainment
experience.


Under the agreement, Panasonic will supply Comcast with advanced
digital cable set-top boxes with the processing power and advanced
functionality that enables the kind of performance, flexibility and
ease of use that consumers want. The Panasonic digital set-top boxes
will have high-definition digital video recording (DVR) capabilities
with a minimum of 250 GB storage capacity, which essentially doubles
the amount of DVR storage currently available on Comcast DVR set-top
boxes. In addition, these boxes will have both MPEG-2 and H.264
decoder capabilities. The H.264 capabilities will offer higher video
compression rates and could let consumers use their televisions to
enjoy media elements commonly available on the Internet.


The new set-top boxes are the result of Comcast's efforts to develop
next-generation devices that bring greater efficiencies to today's
cable infrastructure, while adding advanced functionality such as USB
2.0 that will let consumers connect other media devices, such as
digital cameras or music players, to their televisions. Panasonic
will manufacture and supply Comcast with 250,000 HD-DVR set-top boxes.
Comcast will have the option to acquire up to a total of one million
set-top boxes in the first year, with options for additional boxes in
subsequent years. The initial 250,000 set-top boxes will be supplied
with Panasonic's OCAP middleware.


OCAP is a middleware software standard that enables application
developers to create new interactive services that will run on a broad
range of advanced digital set top boxes and cable-ready TVs. Among
the OCAP software extensions the companies will develop are those that
enable Comcast-deployed set-top boxes to easily interact with a wide
variety of Panasonic Consumer Electronics (CE) devices -- such as
plasma TVs, home theater systems and DVD recorders -- that will be
equipped with Panasonic's HDAVI Control capability. HDAVI Control
capability will let consumers activate and operate all devices in a
home theater, including the digital cable set-top, with a single
remote and through a unified user interface.


- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=54461279

Sorry, yes the 6412p3 is also OCAP ready. But no, none of the cable plants are fully up and running OCAP middleware & software for subscribers yet.
I don't have a 6412 p3, I got mine the first day they were available, I would assume it is p1, if Comcast carried that, if not, then p2.

So, am I to take it that I will have to trade it in?

If so, not a problem, as I will be getting a second DVR, and it will almost surely be a 3412 (my folks just got this) or a 6412 p3. Then, I can swap the 6412 p1 or p2 for a Panny 250.

Seeing as the Panny 250 will have 3 QAM tuners and 1 OOB tuner, will it split internally 4 ways or 3 ways?
If 3, balanced or unbalanced?

Also, will it have an internal amp?

We get enough signal here, at this time, but it could always change, I guess. And, I know others might have a problem with all the splits even now.

Thank you for the OCAP info Scanpa!

Any update on the deployment of these boxes? My area (Boston) was listed as being one of the first to try them out, but I haven't heard a thing.

Any update on the deployment of these boxes? My area (Boston) was listed as being one of the first to try them out, but I haven't heard a thing.

Later this fall last I heard. AFAIK Comcast has yet to recieve them from Panasonic yet...

:(

Of interest ...4/7/2006 2:22:00 PM

Gemstar-TV Guide International Inc. will debut its new Java based interactive-programming-guide solution for OpenCable Application Platform during the National Show.

The company said its “j-Guide” -- which will run on a broad range of advanced digital set-tops and cable-ready TVs -- will offer a richer user interface with enhanced graphics and navigation capabilities.

Gemstar-TV Guide added that the first release of j-Guide, targeted for consumer-electronics devices that support OCAP and two-way CableCARDs, is planned for late summer, with the full feature IPG set to debut in 2007.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6323083.html?display=Breaking+NewsThese boxes aren't going to roll untill the OCAP-based EPGs and DVR software is ready to go ...

And all the bugs and quirks get worked out in field trials ...

Wow this is a great thread!!!

Rumored to have 3 tuners? Wow that's great!

Are there any plans to have a background playback option so you can record to VCR/DVD while watching something else on the TV?

If they improve the efficiency of their compression or if they give the user some control on quality then you can put even more stuff on the 250GB disc. But it's true for HD programs, there isn't a lot of disc space, particularly since the DVR woudl be the only place where you can watch/save them in HD.

I also agree with previous comments on making them more responsive!

Wow this is a great thread!!!

Rumored to have 3 tuners? Wow that's great!

Are there any plans to have a background playback option so you can record to VCR/DVD while watching something else on the TV?

If they improve the efficiency of their compression or if they give the user some control on quality then you can put even more stuff on the 250GB disc. But it's true for HD programs, there isn't a lot of disc space, particularly since the DVR woudl be the only place where you can watch/save them in HD.

I also agree with previous comments on making them more responsive!

Most Providers are getting away from allowing users to copy there content. Do not look for new model STB to be user friendly in reguards to copying content off the DVR.

Most Providers are getting away from allowing users to copy there content. Do not look for new model STB to be user friendly in reguards to copying content off the DVR.

From Panasonic's perspective it would allow them to leverage their DVD recorders by allowing either a background or a quick copy, but since they are hired guns to build the DVRs for Comcast, they would have to do what Comcast asks them to do.

If it indeed has three tuners, they may have to provide for a way for users to be able to watch more than one thing at the same time. That way they can advertise it as a DVR for the whole family. Otherwise it could create a scheduling issues for those wanting to watch their recordings.

Are there any plans to have a background playback option so you can record to VCR/DVD while watching something else on the TV?This would be up to the cable companies ... and the companies that write / provide their software.From Panasonic's perspective it would allow them to leverage their DVD recorders by allowing either a background or a quick copy, but since they are hired guns to build the DVRs for Comcast, they would have to do what Comcast asks them to do.Panasonic has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with that level of functionality. They are providing a box with an OCAP stack. That's it.

The software that provides the type of functionality you are looking for is written by other companies (Aptiv, Gemstar, Guideworks LLC, etc) and get downloaded onto the Panasonic box.

This would be up to the cable companies ... and the companies that write / provide their software.Panasonic has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with that level of functionality. They are providing a box with an OCAP stack. That's it.

The software that provides the type of functionality you are looking for is written by other companies (Aptiv, Gemstar, Guideworks LLC, etc) and get downloaded onto the Panasonic box.

But some of the features implemented in software need a hardware counterpart and you can't create hardware with software :) If the hardware is available it is more likely to have software to use it than if it wasn't available :-) For example if you have only one set of physical outputs in the box, it's less likely to have a "copy to VCR" function. But if the box has a 2nd set of outputs...

The official press release (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=95939&modelNo=Content01042006101940415&surfModel=Content01042006101940415) from Comcast and Panasonic which is quoted in scanpa's post # 33 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7198368&&#post7198368) does not state the number of tuners the new DVR will have.

Check this link for some details: Three Tuners?
http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html
Does anyone know why this significant feature was omitted from the original press release?

Will this box be able to do PIP in HD WOW that would be great.

Rob

So the three tuners could be just how it is implemented inside, but not what the consumer can use?

So the three tuners could be just how it is implemented inside, but not what the consumer can use?
I remember reading in another article that it would indeed have three tuners; I'll see if I can find that. There would be no reason to have three tuners and only use two.

I remember reading in another article that it would indeed have three tuners; I'll see if I can find that. There would be no reason to have three tuners and only use two.
It really depends on what they define as "TUNERS," because really it will need 2-3 analog tuners (if it will be analog compatible i haven't looked into this), and 2-3 QAM HD tuners, but perhaps they are counting the DOCSIS modem as a "tuner," even though it's for data only. I can't imagine how someone would interpret this as a "tuner," but i have yet to see clarification on three "TV TUNERS."

No, it is going to be a Digital only DVR.

It was discussed before that the DOCSIS modem could be considered a tuner, but I, and probably others, think they wouldn't advertise it as such, as this would confuse customers with false expectations.

Also, Motorola's precedent of calling it's DVRs dual-tuner, when you can record two programs.

No, it is going to be a Digital only DVR.

It was discussed before that the DOCSIS modem could be considered a tuner, but I, and probably others, think they wouldn't advertise it as such, as this would confuse customers with false expectations.

Also, Motorola's precedent of calling it's DVRs dual-tuner, when you can record two programs.

I think they have to use similar terminology otherwise they open a big can of worms. Very few consumers are fully aware of the differences between the various analog and digital tuners.

They should report on how many things you can record in parallel, which is really what matters/affects the consumer most....

I think they have to use similar terminology otherwise they open a big can of worms. Very few consumers are fully aware of the differences between the various analog and digital tuners.

They should report on how many things you can record in parallel, which is really what matters/affects the consumer most....

Well in that case it would be a quad tuner.

3 Tuners for viewing and recording, 1 Out of Band Tuner for Data.

No, it is going to be a Digital only DVR.

It was discussed before that the DOCSIS modem could be considered a tuner, but I, and probably others, think they wouldn't advertise it as such, as this would confuse customers with false expectations.

Also, Motorola's precedent of calling it's DVRs dual-tuner, when you can record two programs.
The "3 Tuner" comment was not "advertised" to consumers, but rather published in an article about the newest piece of STB technology, and whoever wrote the article probably talked to a tech, not a CSR. Also, this is from Panasonic, not Motorola, however you make very good points and you are [Probably] correct.

Any new news on this one?

It's been quiet as of late, they have started to upgrade systems to operate Both the new IGUIDE & TiVo Software at my Headend. Late July is the current date for both to be available....

Will the monthly DVR fee for a Panny be the same as for a Motorola running IGuide?

Will the monthly DVR fee for a Panny be the same as for a Motorola running IGuide?

The DVR / IPG software is a new one as it is OCAP based. Highly doubt it will be any of the current IPG software. Panasonic does there own OCAP based Software, So it might be there own IPG...

as for cost, we have heard nothing yet. as soon as one gets in the office and on the work bench, I will post all I can about it. trust me were waiting. Our plant is working on the OCAP upgrade now..... :)

The DVR / IPG software is a new one as it is OCAP based. Highly doubt it will be any of the current IPG software. Panasonic does there own OCAP based Software, So it might be there own IPG...

as for cost, we have heard nothing yet. as soon as one gets in the office and on the work bench, I will post all I can about it. trust me were waiting. Our plant is working on the OCAP upgrade now..... :)

Its great to hear your enthusiasm about the new box. I've reaching my max tolerance with my 6412, to the point of considering switching to D*TV just to get back to TiVo which is a much more responsive box.

My biggest issue with the 6412 is that it is slow to respond, and often times it just stops responding to the remote for about a minute - then all the sudden goes crazy as all my remote button presses finally catch up all at once.

Also I'm really hoping that the FINALLY add an easy way to switch between 720p and 1080i output mode without having to turn off the STB to do it (which, BTW, you cannot do if its recording - PITA!). As I understand it the D*TV box allows you to freely switch back and forth which is very sweet.

The DVR / IPG software is a new one as it is OCAP based. Highly doubt it will be any of the current IPG software. Panasonic does there own OCAP based Software, So it might be there own IPG...

as for cost, we have heard nothing yet. as soon as one gets in the office and on the work bench, I will post all I can about it. trust me were waiting. Our plant is working on the OCAP upgrade now..... :)

Any new updates on when this box will be available? Will the new Tivo software work with it or will the Panasonic software be as good on it's own?

Any new updates on when this box will be available? Will the new Tivo software work with it or will the Panasonic software be as good on it's own?

End of year / beginning of next year.

Unknown, but suspected that the TiVo software is only for the Moto DCT-x4xx STB.

Were getting both upgrades to the head end. Should be done in the next 60 days.

End of year / beginning of next year.

Unknown, but suspected that the TiVo software is only for the Moto DCT-x4xx STB.

Were getting both upgrades to the head end. Should be done in the next 60 days.

Scanpa, thanks for the update. I always appreciate your input.

Two months is enough for a bump.

Has anyone heard anything new about this box? Do we have a model number yet?

Two months is enough for a bump.

Has anyone heard anything new about this box? Do we have a model number yet?

STB delayed for release till 1st. Qtr. 2007 time frame.

STB delayed for release till 1st. Qtr. 2007 time frame.

That is awesome... leave it to Comcast... I'm running two of their boxes now.. it's great that they are not supporting the use of the SATA port. I still lost a few shows trying to tape the US Open..

Wow 2007? That's an eternity given high-techs fast product cycles :-(

I was looking forward to a new STB, with 2x the capacity and a different maker (than Moto) :-)

Wow 2007? That's an eternity given high-techs fast product cycles :-(

I was looking forward to a new STB, with 2x the capacity and a different maker (than Moto) :-)


Comcast pushed alot of projects back a few months to get the Sept. 1st. 2006 Digital Voice Roll-out to begin on time.

I'm sorry for my "newb-ness" but what box would I get if I am in Richmond, Va? I know it's alittle off topic but this box seems really awesome but I know I won't be getting it for awhile since Richmond isn't on the rollout schedule. I'm getting a HD DVR and thats all I know, and it seems like you know alot about Comcast!

EDIT: If you know the model # that would work just fine, but if you could also give the HDD specs and whether it has a DVI output.

Thanks in advance!

ahigee,

If Comcast uses Scientific Atlanta boxes in your area, you get the SA8300 with a 160Gb drive. If Motorola boxes, then you get the DCT-6412 or DCT-3412 with a 120Gb drive. With a 120Gb drive, you get 12-16 hours of HDTV recording, depending on the content. All have HDMI/DVI.

If you want more HDTV storage on a DVR, then you'll have to look into a solution like the Tivo Series3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8237301&&#post8237301).

ahigee,

If Comcast uses Scientific Atlanta boxes in your area, you get the SA8300 with a 160Gb drive. If Motorola boxes, then you get the DCT-6412 or DCT-3412 with a 120Gb drive. With a 120Gb drive, you get 12-16 hours of HDTV recording, depending on the content. All have HDMI/DVI.

If you want more HDTV storage on a DVR, then you'll have to look into a solution like the Tivo Series3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8237301&&#post8237301).

The Motorola 6412 Ph III doesn't have a DVI output but it can be converted with a HDMI-DVI cable.

The SA STB will not run OCAP, they will run there own version of middleware that will do the same thing.Not sure if you're referring to a specific SA STB or in general, but SA boxes will absolutely be running OCAP as well. Whether a given box will be upgraded to OCAP depends on whether the specs of that box are sufficient to support OCAP.

- Talk

ahigee,

If Comcast uses Scientific Atlanta boxes in your area, you get the SA8300 with a 160Gb drive. If Motorola boxes, then you get the DCT-6412 or DCT-3412 with a 120Gb drive. With a 120Gb drive, you get 12-16 hours of HDTV recording, depending on the content. All have HDMI/DVI.

If you want more HDTV storage on a DVR, then you'll have to look into a solution like the Tivo Series3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8237301&&#post8237301).

An update...

Comcast is now delivering Moto 3416 boxes. I had issues with my 6412 III and called them... and they deliverd a brand spanking new 3416 box. Needless to say... I am real happy that I got the extra 40 GB.

An update...

Comcast is now delivering Moto 3416 boxes. I had issues with my 6412 III and called them... and they deliverd a brand spanking new 3416 box. Needless to say... I am real happy that I got the extra 40 GB.

Is the only difference between the 3416 and 6412 just the HDMI output and larger disk space?

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I guess we will see tomorrow morning about which box i get. Will they provide a HDMI to DVI adapter since I don't have any free component slots or a HDMI port on my tv? If not I'll have to wait to see the difference and go buy one after they leave.

Is the only difference between the 3416 and 6412 just the HDMI output and larger disk space?

The 34XX series only have digital tuners, no analog tuners. Check out http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR

If Motorola boxes, then you get the DCT-6412 or DCT-3412 with a 120Gb drive. With a 120Gb drive, you get 12-16 hours of HDTV recording, depending on the content.
Not according to Motorola; they claim it holds 12-20 hours of HD. Also, one person a while ago was able to record 23 hours of HD from INHD.

Not according to Motorola; they claim it holds 12-20 hours of HD. Also, one person a while ago was able to record 23 hours of HD from INHD.
It all depends on the compression used by your cable provider. DirecTV gets more HDTV storage per gigabyte than anyone else on its DVRs, thanks to "HDTV Lite." By definition, full bitrate ATSC HDTV is 8.6 gigabytes per hour. If you're seeing something different, then you aren't getting full bitrate ATSC HDTV.

(And yes, Comcast has increased compression on many of its systems in the last 12 months.)

It all depends on the compression used by your cable provider. DirecTV gets more HDTV storage per gigabyte than anyone else on its DVRs, thanks to "HDTV Lite." By definition, full bitrate ATSC HDTV is 8.6 gigabytes per hour. If you're seeing something different, then you aren't getting full bitrate ATSC HDTV.

(And yes, Comcast has increased compression on many of its systems in the last 12 months.)

Indeed! For example my local PBS is very light compared to other HD channels. (they have 1 digital HD channel and 4 non-HD digital channels)

Anyone know if Comcast will roll out the 6416 before the Pana box? Our family has diverse viewing habits and time schedules and we are constantly running up against the 6412 storage limit with HDTV.

The 250G Pana would sure be welcomed but I'd take a 6416 in the meantime.

tnx
jtm

Anyone know if Comcast will roll out the 6416 before the Pana box? Our family has diverse viewing habits and time schedules and we are constantly running up against the 6412 storage limit with HDTV.

The 250G Pana would sure be welcomed but I'd take a 6416 in the meantime.

tnx
jtm


Some areas are already getting the Motorola boxes with 160Gb harddrives and there is no word on the Panasonic box.

Anyone know if Comcast will roll out the 6416 before the Pana box? Our family has diverse viewing habits and time schedules and we are constantly running up against the 6412 storage limit with HDTV.

The 250G Pana would sure be welcomed but I'd take a 6416 in the meantime.

tnx
jtm

Stop by your local office and see if they have any, you can swap DVR boxes at any time.

I've reaching my max tolerance with my 6412, to the point of considering switching to D*TV just to get back to TiVo which is a much more responsive box.

My biggest issue with the 6412 is that it is slow to respond, and often times it just stops responding to the remote for about a minute - then all the sudden goes crazy as all my remote button presses finally catch up all at once.



I've had this same problem. Is this a characteristic of the 6412 only, or all Motorola units?

Also, are the other Motorola units (other than the 6412) "better" units, it terms of HDD storage capacity, etc? Considering a swap if another unit is a better way to go.

Spoke to an online Comcast rep yesterday. Was told that the TiVo rollout was due "very late 2006".

I've had this same problem. Is this a characteristic of the 6412 only, or all Motorola units?

Also, are the other Motorola units (other than the 6412) "better" units, it terms of HDD storage capacity, etc? Considering a swap if another unit is a better way to go.

Spoke to an online Comcast rep yesterday. Was told that the TiVo rollout was due "very late 2006".

1) it is a software / Dardware and CPU problem with the Remote IR Buffer store problem.

the last 2 digits in the model tell you the size of the HDD

Currently, there is only the 6208 = 080 GB or xx12 = 120 GB or xx16 = 160 GB drive sizes.

Is the Panny DVR going to have native res. pass-thru?

Scanpa, how is the OCAP implementation progressing at the Reading, PA Headend?

I was at the local office on riverfront drive this week and the newest DCT they had was the 3412-I. Do you know if they are going to offer the 3416 soon, or perhaps they do already offer that and ran out?

I'll probably wait for the Panasonic DVR. It seems to have much more going for it for me to consider upgrading vs. the 3416. My 6412-I works fine for me, plus I don't want to loose recordings, the fiance would HATE that!

1) it is a software / Dardware and CPU problem with the Remote IR Buffer store problem.


Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

The sluggish IR response problem is greatly improved (but not fixed completely) with the 16.20 firmware.

Does external SATA work on this DVR?

Does external SATA work on this DVR?

it is reported to work! :D

it is reported to work! :D

Any update on where/when we can expect to see these puppies start rolling out? And are these the ones with the TiVo software?

Any update on where/when we can expect to see these puppies start rolling out? And are these the ones with the TiVo software?



Late 1st. Qtr. 2007

No. the Comcast TiVo software is for the /\/\otorola DCT Series 64xx & 34xx STB

They do plan on porting a OCAP version of the Comcast TiVo software that will work on Motorola, Pace, SA, Panasonic SD / HD DVR platforms in late 2007 / early 2008.

Late 1st. Qtr. 2006


????? :) I know you meant 2007.....

Late 1st. Qtr. 2006

No. the Comcast TiVo software is for the /\/\otorola DCT Series 64xx & 34xx STB

They do plan on porting a OCAP version of the Comcast TiVo software that will work on Motorola, Pace, SA, Panasonic SD / HD DVR platforms in late 2007 / early 2008.

In all major areas in Q1 07 or just some test sites/rollout? Any places using this now? 3 tuners plus external storage is a major winner. Even better if they've added an auto-pass thru mode for 720p vs 1080i ...

????? :) I know you meant 2007.....

yes sir.

thats twice this week, I have reversed 2006 & 2007.

:rolleyes:

In all major areas in Q1 07 or just some test sites/rollout? Any places using this now? 3 tuners plus external storage is a major winner. Even better if they've added an auto-pass thru mode for 720p vs 1080i ...

only in areas that the headends / cable plants have the OCAP system in place and operational. They started this year to put inplace the OCAP equipment at some locations.

only in areas that the headends / cable plants have the OCAP system in place and operational. They started this year to put inplace the OCAP equipment at some locations.

It's been a month with nothing new. Are we still looking at late Q1 of '07? How's the OCAP rollout going?

It's been a month with nothing new. Are we still looking at late Q1 of '07? How's the OCAP rollout going?
March - April 2007 for rollout of the Pannasonics HD250DVR STB.

OCAP Rollout is the same for those areas selected and upgraded to run OCAP.

It's just going to be a wait and see.

March - April 2007 for rollout of the Pannasonics HD250DVR STB.

OCAP Rollout is the same for those areas selected and upgraded to run OCAP.

It's just going to be a wait and see.

Are the Panasonics going to in the same price tier as the Motorola 34xx/64xx boxes or are they going to charge more? (or is it too early to tell)...

March - April 2007 for rollout of the Pannasonics HD250DVR STB.

OCAP Rollout is the same for those areas selected and upgraded to run OCAP.

It's just going to be a wait and see.

Is that the actual model number? Has anyone been able to find one yet?

Are the Panasonics going to in the same price tier as the Motorola 34xx/64xx boxes or are they going to charge more? (or is it too early to tell)...

Unknown, but I am sure it will be the same as the SA83xxHD & Moto DCT 34xx / 64xx STB.

Is that the actual model number? Has anyone been able to find one yet?

Sorry no it is not the model number. :D

We do not even have it listed in the comcast corp. back office system yet.

there is one photo of it on the web that I have seen so far.

Sorry no it is not the model number. :D

We do not even have it listed in the comcast corp. back office system yet.


Is it known yet if it actually has 3 video tuners and can do 3 simultaneous recordings? The original 3 tuner spec was not very clear.

Is it known yet if it actually has 3 video tuners and can do 3 simultaneous recordings? The original 3 tuner spec was not very clear.

No it is a rumor so far.

The specs we were told, were:

3 Digital Cable Tuners, 1 Dedicated Data OOB Tuner, 1 Dedicated Docsis Modem Tuner.

Lets hope this info will be correct. :)

Sorry no it is not the model number. :D

We do not even have it listed in the comcast corp. back office system yet.

there is one photo of it on the web that I have seen so far.

I didn't know there was a picture out at all. It looks like it is the same style as the SA-XR700. So much better than the Motorola or SA. This box is impossible to find information on, anything you can find out from Comcast is much appreciated (especially how to get on the Beta test list for Boston.) ;)

I didn't know there was a picture out at all. It looks like it is the same style as the SA-XR700. So much better than the Motorola or SA. This box is impossible to find information on, anything you can find out from Comcast is much appreciated (especially how to get on the Beta test list for Boston.) ;)

That picture is the guy from Panasonic handing over the 1st one off the product line to Comcast CEO Brian Roberts.

here is what I could fine online about the OCAP rollout.

- Comcast Corp. will also push the OCAP needle in late 2006, starting build-outs at headends located in Philadelphia, Denver, Union (N.J.) and Boston, said company Chairman & CEO Brian Roberts. He added that Comcast is working with Panasonic on an OCAP-based application that will relieve some of the "frustration" consumers experience with their home theaters, namely the sizable number of remotes required to control multiple devices. Using OCAP, Comcast will be able to "provision" the speakers and other devices hooked into the home theater environment, and enable the consumer to control them all via one remote. Comcast revealed other OCAP-related plans earlier in the week, signing Panasonic to a deal to initially provide 250,000 HD-DVR set-tops with dual MPEG-2 and H.264 compression techniques outfitted with Panasonic's implementation of the CableLabs-specified middleware.

H.264 compression eh? Any other current or upcoming Comcast STBs that support that?

Unknown, but I am sure it will be the same as the SA83xxHD & Moto DCT 34xx / 64xx STB.

Thanks!

250GB will be a nice hdd size for ADS recording - at least 130+ hours of standard cable in ADS :-)

End of year / beginning of next year.

Unknown, but suspected that the TiVo software is only for the Moto DCT-x4xx STB.

Were getting both upgrades to the head end. Should be done in the next 60 days.

any news on this in the last 5 months? It would suck if they only rolled out tivo on the moto boxes. decisions, decisions. I'd love to have tivo but 250 gb or more and 3 tuners might be hard to pass up.

For sure, the first roll-out will be onto the Motorola boxes. The first port was written for them. At this point, the roll-out has been delayed, presumably because it is taking much longer to work out the problems than forecasted. Maybe early next year; maybe even later. Then they can consider porting the software to other platforms.

That picture is the guy from Panasonic handing over the 1st one off the product line to Comcast CEO Brian Roberts.

here is what I could fine online about the OCAP rollout.

- Comcast Corp. will also push the OCAP needle in late 2006, starting build-outs at headends located in Philadelphia, Denver, Union (N.J.) and Boston, said company Chairman & CEO Brian Roberts. He added that Comcast is working with Panasonic on an OCAP-based application that will relieve some of the "frustration" consumers experience with their home theaters, namely the sizable number of remotes required to control multiple devices. Using OCAP, Comcast will be able to "provision" the speakers and other devices hooked into the home theater environment, and enable the consumer to control them all via one remote. Comcast revealed other OCAP-related plans earlier in the week, signing Panasonic to a deal to initially provide 250,000 HD-DVR set-tops with dual MPEG-2 and H.264 compression techniques outfitted with Panasonic's implementation of the CableLabs-specified middleware.

Interesting what they are saying about being able to ‘provision’ devices using OCAP to be controlled through one remote. Do you think they are the thinking of programming the remote through OCAP or maybe programming the set top box and giving it IR outputs? I hope its not the latter, the last thing people need is IR emitters.

I am just hoping that HDAVI works as advertised and the remote that comes with the cable box is simple and intuitive.

I'd like to know if Knoxville will support the use of the new Panny STB in the first quarter of 2007. If so, I need to know how to out my name on a wait list to get one as soon as they are available.

I currently have the Moto 3416 and am completely frustrated by the fact that I can't set it to native or pass-through mode. My TV would do a MUCH better job of conversion than the 3416!

I'd like to know if Knoxville will support the use of the new Panny STB in the first quarter of 2007. If so, I need to know how to out my name on a wait list to get one as soon as they are available.

I currently have the Moto 3416 and am completely frustrated by the fact that I can't set it to native or pass-through mode. My TV would do a MUCH better job of conversion than the 3416!

Only Cable Headends that are upgrading to OCAP, will get the Pannasonic HD DVR STB. There are only 4 Comcast areas currently undergoing this upgrade.

Philadelphia, Denver, Union (N.J.) and Boston.

Thanks for the reply Scanpa... how could i find out when Knoxville will be upgrading? Knoxville seems to be pretty current as they have recently completed a huge fiber upgrade and offer CDV and ADS.

Not to speak for Scanpa, but I believe that they never indicate when information like that will become available before it becomes available. So for now, we only know about the four communities that are undergoing the upgrade. There is no way to find out when others will be.

Comcast keeps this stuff pretty close to CORPHQ staff. But when the 4 current headends complete there update, then a beta test will start in those markets, howlong this test will take is unknown. But after that testing is done, then Rollout should begin in most markets.

However be advised, that not all areas that are going to OCAP will need the panasonic STB, The DCT 64xx & DCT 34xx series STB are already OCAP ready. They will just need the software download. But the Panasonics are reported to be part of the Beta test in early 2007 at the 4 test location.

Comcast keeps this stuff pretty close to CORPHQ staff. But when the 4 current headends complete there update, then a beta test will start in those markets, howlong this test will take is unknown. But after that testing is done, then Rollout should begin in most markets.

However be advised, that not all areas that are going to OCAP will need the panasonic STB, The DCT 64xx & DCT 34xx series STB are already OCAP ready. They will just need the software download. But the Panasonics are reported to be part of the Beta test in early 2007 at the 4 test location.

Thanks Scanpa for all the information in these forums! I have one question on these Panasonic DVR STBs: Are there any early beta-tests on them, or any indicators on how they would compare to the Motorola 34xx/64xx boxes? Thanks :-)

Hey Scanpa I've been told that New Hampshire is also being OCAP upgraded as we speak as its considered part of the Boston Comcast area. I've been told that once the new Panny boxes are available to customers that any Comcast customers served by both the Nashua and Manchester offices will have access to these boxes. I'm just wondering if you can also confirm or deny this. Also for most people keep in mind that the Manchester office doesn't just serve Manchester. They also serve many other cities such as Windham, Salem, Derry, Raymond, Londonderry among others. Also the Nashua office serves Hudson, Milford among other cities.

Hey Scanpa I've been told that New Hampshire is also being OCAP upgraded as we speak as its considered part of the Boston Comcast area. I've been told that once the new Panny boxes are available to customers that any Comcast customers served by both the Nashua and Manchester offices will have access to these boxes. I'm just wondering if you can also confirm or deny this. Also for most people keep in mind that the Manchester office doesn't just serve Manchester. They also serve many other cities such as Windham, Salem, Derry, Raymond, Londonderry among others. Also the Nashua office serves Hudson, Milford among other cities.

Well, if it goes all the way to NH, I must be OK too in Chelmsford. Woohoo! I really want that bigger drive!

http://static.flickr.com/99/254217353_06a8777b2e.jpg

cableric

Well, at least it will match the xbox360 I guess. Where did you find it? I expected the form factor to be more like panasonics other products.

I found this article about the box: (http://www.cable360.net/ct/video/14995.html)


RNG Set-tops: OCAP, DOCSIS and more

At this year's Consumer Electronics Show in January, Comcast announced two purchases that play into its real next-generation (RNG) set-top initiative, which includes OCAP as a core component. The deals included an order for 200,000 (with options for another 500,000) `RNG-100' boxes from Samsung; and an order for 250,000 (with an option for as many as 1 million in the first year) `RNG-200' boxes from Panasonic. Comcast Senior VP of Digital Television Mark Hess talked with CT thereafter about these boxes and the RNG initiative:

Could you describe the two versions of the RNG?

Think of a 100 as a set-top box that would be able to work within the realities of these platforms: OCAP, DOCSIS, advanced codecs, but not necessarily high-def, and no DVR. The advanced box (RNG 200) gets you high-def and DVR.

What categories of technology were you looking for in the RNG class boxes?

One was that the box would be capable of some advanced codec, whether H.264 or whatever we would require. That is probably the first and most significant change, in that it won't be just an MPEG-2 device. Also, the capability—and this is part of NGNA that started there and has grown—for downloadable security. The box has enough memory and processing for OCAP, it has a larger hard drive, it has DOCSIS so we can do DSG signaling. And we've been focusing on a USB (universal serial bus) 2.0 port—for enough speed and universality so that devices can begin to interact with the set-top.

Is this ground-breaking?

It's funny: The (RNG-200) is the kind of box that three years ago people would have called a media center, an advanced DVR box. But silicon and processing and memory march on. But we think it's a flexible platform. It will be OCAP-based and will carry us into the future but will also, we think, come in at a really good price.

What about the consumer interface? Does that go back to GuideWorks?

Yes and no. The concept here, because it's OCAP-capable, is that as we begin to deploy the first RNG boxes, they will be based with OCAP as their core software. GuideWorks is working hard right now at creating a Java-based version of their guide that will be an application working within the OCAP framework. There will be other applications down the road, too.

When do you expect the deployment to begin?

If we could do this by mid '07, that would be a good thing. This is a big cycle we have to go through.

Are other operators involved or interested?

We certainly shared the spec with other operators. Time will tell as to what they think. Because it has a lot of the elements of NGNA, it certainly could be used (by other MSOs).

Do you see Motorola and Scientific-Atlanta in parallel movement?

Motorola and S-A have been involved in the process. And they're great vendors. So I assume that their roadmaps will start to morph close to ours or go build these for us.

Are you interested in the IPTV set-tops and what they can do?

Am I interested? We need to understand them. And this set-top box, because it has an advanced codec capability, would be able to handle some of that. But we have a huge, embedded base of MPEG-2 devices. This box can do MPEG-2, it can do advanced codecs, it can do "IPTV." We have the advantage of an embedded base because of the number of customers we have. We don't have a green field where we can go right to IPTV. That being said, being able to layer those types of products on top of our own seems to be a tremendous advantage, as well. This is a box that lets us play in both worlds.

Only Cable Headends that are upgrading to OCAP, will get the Pannasonic HD DVR STB. There are only 4 Comcast areas currently undergoing this upgrade.

Philadelphia, Denver, Union (N.J.) and Boston.


I live in Carteret NJ (Union II) Comcast, so your saying I can get the Panny Box? When?


Rob

http://static.flickr.com/99/254217353_06a8777b2e.jpg

cableric

Interesting design differences compared to current pizza boxes :)

Where'd you find that image rick? I like it a lot. Perhaps theres some USB ports in a fold down door on the right side? Would like to see a blue LED clock/ Channel display though, or perhaps a user selectable Blue, Red, Green, Orange LED front display.

More info about OCAP HD DVR & Cable

http://blog.ncta.com/PaulR/archive/2007/01/09/31.aspx

And a press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-07-2007/0004501016&EDATE=

2008 for wide availability? Wow, ultra-suck.

Yea, I figure I may be using MS IPTV on my XBOX 360 by then instead.

I would love some kind of high-bitrate, high quality IPTV on my 360, and then I could completely ditch Comcast. Actually what I would like is a lower cost kind of IPTV that would use downloaded files, not streaming, since I have practically no need for live tv anymore. 2009 is looking like an interesting timeframe.

2008 for wide availability? Wow, ultra-suck.

The press release says 2008 for digital-cable-ready TVs.

I am assuming the 250gb Panasonic DVR should be widely available sometime in 2007?

The press release says 2008 for digital-cable-ready TVs.

I am assuming the 250gb Panasonic DVR should be widely available sometime in 2007?

Ahh, I missed that. Ok, maybe hope lives.

As for Panasonic's set-top box deal from last year, Strabel said Comcast will start deploying them this summer (2007) and that GuideWorks was still working on the electronic program guide.

As for Panasonic's set-top box deal from last year, Strabel said Comcast will start deploying them this summer (2007) and that GuideWorks was still working on the electronic program guide.

Thanks for the update! That is promising!

Will to TiVo software be available for the Panasonic box as well (and support 3 tuners)? Or will the TiVo software work only on the Motorola box? Speaking of which, anyone know when that should be available in most areas? Cannot wait to ditch the DVR software on the Moto 6412 I've used for years (yuck!). Talk about no innovation...

Word is that the TiVo software will be first available on the Motorola DCx34xx and DCx64xx boxes. Rumor is that it was ported so that once that deployment is completed, it should be relatively easy to accomplish deployment onto other boxes. I don't know, however, if the Panasonic one one of those.

Will to TiVo software be available for the Panasonic box as well (and support 3 tuners)? Or will the TiVo software work only on the Motorola box? Speaking of which, anyone know when that should be available in most areas? Cannot wait to ditch the DVR software on the Moto 6412 I've used for years (yuck!). Talk about no innovation...

Speaking of three tuners, has it been confirmed that three tuners will be available to the end-user, so you can record three things at the same time, or are three tuners part of the internal configuration, and the end-user may not necessarily have access to all three-tuners at the same time? Thanks....

Word is that the TiVo software will be first available on the Motorola DCx34xx and DCx64xx boxes. Rumor is that it was ported so that once that deployment is completed, it should be relatively easy to accomplish deployment onto other boxes. I don't know, however, if the Panasonic one one of those.

Thanks for the info! Any word as to when (how soon!) we can download this and get it going?

Thanks for the info! Any word as to when (how soon!) we can download this and get it going?

For the Pana, dont look for the TiVo software till late 2007 / Early 2008

For the Pana, dont look for the TiVo software till late 2007 / Early 2008

Thanks. How about for the Motorola 64xx or 32xx series?

Also is this something we'll download ourselves or will we just call Comcast and put in a request and they'll initiate the download straight to the box?

Any word on how solid / stable the TiVo software will be on this bug? Wouldn't want to go through a period of weeks or months with worse bugs than we have now.

Finally, does anyone know if TiVo supports native pass through so that if the station is in 1080i it sends out 1080i and if 720p it sends out 720p? I don't want the Moto box doing any scaling. Thanks.

Not to speak for scanpa, but in the past he's indicated that the TiVo software for the Motorola boxes will start getting rolled out either later in this quarter or next quarter, with additional deployments continuing throughout the rest of this year. Presumably by this time next year, all Comcast customers with digital head-ends that serve Motorola hardware will be able to provide the TiVo software option.

This is an added-fee option, so you'll have to call Comcast to add on the service, after which, FWIR, the software will be downloaded to your box.

Thanks. How about for the Motorola 64xx or 32xx series?

Also is this something we'll download ourselves or will we just call Comcast and put in a request and they'll initiate the download straight to the box?

Any word on how solid / stable the TiVo software will be on this bug? Wouldn't want to go through a period of weeks or months with worse bugs than we have now.

Finally, does anyone know if TiVo supports native pass through so that if the station is in 1080i it sends out 1080i and if 720p it sends out 720p? I don't want the Moto box doing any scaling. Thanks.


The first run of the tivo software in beta had some problems, but the new version of the software is very stable compared to any of the current Software platforms used on the Moto QIP or DCT 34xx & 64xx platform.

The last Moto STB that allowed native pass through was the 5200 series.

none of the 6100, 62xx, 64xx, or the 34xx series does native pass through.

This would require updated code from Motorola to enable the STB to do this. Has nothing to do with the EPG / DVR software.

It wouldn't require a hardware change as well?

The first run of the tivo software in beta had some problems, but the new version of the software is very stable compared to any of the current Software platforms used on the Moto QIP or DCT 34xx & 64xx platform.

The last Moto STB that allowed native pass through was the 5200 series.

none of the 6100, 62xx, 64xx, or the 34xx series does native pass through.

This would require updated code from Motorola to enable the STB to do this. Has nothing to do with the EPG / DVR software.

Thanks scanpa. Do you know who we could send a request to for getting the native pass through support added back in? This is very important to those that use highend external processors or advanced displays/projectors with much better scaling capabilities.

Or at a minimum, if they could just put the 1080i/720p switch in the user menu that would make it much easier to switch back and forth. Its also really a PITA when the unit is in one mode, and you need it in the other, but can't change it in the menu because its recording a show and turning it off to switch it would interrupt the recording!

Also - by far my biggest pet peeve with the Moto box is how it falls asleep sometimes for MINUTES and won't respond to the remove. I have a 6408 for a couple years and a 6412 for a couple years and I can't believe they have not fixed this yet. Do you know if this will be fixed with the TiVo software or is this unrelated and we'll still be stuck with these hangs?

Lastly - if the TiVo version is buggy is there an option to revert back to the old DVR service? Thanks!

Thanks scanpa. Do you know who we could send a request to for getting the native pass through support added back in? This is very important to those that use highend external processors or advanced displays/projectors with much better scaling capabilities.

Or at a minimum, if they could just put the 1080i/720p switch in the user menu that would make it much easier to switch back and forth. Its also really a PITA when the unit is in one mode, and you need it in the other, but can't change it in the menu because its recording a show and turning it off to switch it would interrupt the recording!

Also - by far my biggest pet peeve with the Moto box is how it falls asleep sometimes for MINUTES and won't respond to the remove. I have a 6408 for a couple years and a 6412 for a couple years and I can't believe they have not fixed this yet. Do you know if this will be fixed with the TiVo software or is this unrelated and we'll still be stuck with these hangs?

Lastly - if the TiVo version is buggy is there an option to revert back to the old DVR service? Thanks!

A software hook can be added with a crapload of additional code in the software. But noone seems to want this done (MSO wise). I have asked Moto about this on multiple phone calls. They said it's comcast, comcast says it's them.

The remote buffer problem is CPU related. Reports I have read indicate very good response with the remote buffer and the cpu on the TiVo software & Firmware updates..

We have 2 upcomming training classes, the first is for the new SD & HD PACE DVR STB, and the 2nd. in late Feb. is for the TiVo software.

It wouldn't require a hardware change as well?

Not from what I have been told via various phone calls with Motorola.

The chip is the same chip as used in several other STB.

We have 2 upcomming training classes, the first is for the new SD & HD PACE DVR STB, and the 2nd. in late Feb. is for the TiVo software.


HD Pace DVR? Is that the Tahoe?
Both the Vegas SD and Tahoe HD are Motorola and OCAP compliant so could they both be widely distributed before the OCAP headends are installed?

I heard the Panasonic Box was at CES 2007. Anyone have any pictures or more detailed information?

As for Panasonic's set-top box deal from last year, Strabel said Comcast will start deploying them this summer (2007) and that GuideWorks was still working on the electronic program guide.

I wonder if that means summer for wide availability or for beginning deployment in the "test communities"? I am in the Boston area I heard Boston will be among the first wave of roll-outs for this. The question is when the test roll-outs will start.

I was told today that the panasonic DVR is the same as the Moto series. 2 QAM cable tuners and 1 Data QAM OOB Tuner. So much for the 3 available QAM Cable tuner's rumor. :(

That's the pits. Oh well, it was a good dream anyway........ If it still has a 250g HD, that's still a plus.

Scanpa have you heard anything about Comcast switching VOD to be fully run using the cable modem in the boxes instead of using the QAM video tuner like today. I'm hearing that the biggest request and complaints about VOD from customers with DVR boxes is the fact they can't record two live shows "and" playback a VOD show. I'm hearing that Comcast is working on some software that will allow VOD to work using just the cable modems inside the boxes. I'm told that with this software customers can record two shows at a time while "also" playing back either an already recorded DVR show "or" playing back any VOD title.

I think this is a very good idea but I've only been told this by just one contact thus far so I don't know what truth this holds yet. I still have a couple contacts that are still insisting that the panasonic box does have three QAM tuners but oh well as I did feel it was a long shot for that feature set.

I was told today that the panasonic DVR is the same as the Moto series. 2 QAM cable tuners and 1 Data QAM OOB Tuner. So much for the 3 available QAM Cable tuner's rumor. :(

Thanks for the update! Three would have been better, but two is fine as well. If it stores video the same way as the Moto, that essentially means doubling the capacity of the 3412/6412. That would mean 100+ hours of ADS, and a max of up to 300 of the lightweight digital-only cable channels, and probably a few months of Music Choice :-)

so is there a latest on the date of the release, and where we will see them getting released?

and probably a few months of Music Choice

Since when can you record the music choose channels? per the contract between comcast & MC your DVR is not allowed to buffer or record any of those 45 + music channels.

so is there a latest on the date of the release, and where we will see them getting released?

2nd. / 3rd. qtr. (mid to late summer / early fall) There still working on the EPG
software code.

The PACE SD / HD DVR's will soon be rolled out at most Motorola Based headends / hubs in the next 2 months. The Tivo Software is next, major rollout of Comcast wireless cell / HSI service is next then the Panasonics and then the moto DCH series stb. and the move from SARA based software to IGUIDE on the SA series STB plus the rollout of there new DVR STB based on the security card system..

alot going on this year and into next year.

Since when can you record the music choose channels? per the contract between comcast & MC your DVR is not allowed to buffer or record any of those 45 + music channels.

That's funny, when I switched from a 6412 to a 3412, I gained the ability to rewind MC channels. I've never actually tried recording them though.

That's funny, when I switched from a 6412 to a 3412, I gained the ability to rewind MC channels. I've never actually tried recording them though.

You know, just out of the blue, I tested this at home, and my home service from comcast does let me rewind and then FF and set a recording.

They shure dont allow that at the headend I work out of.

I will have to contact one of the techs there and ask about this.

something must have changed over the last year. Cause before I moved in Sept. the service provider did not even buffer the digital music channels, let alone allow you to record or RW / FF.

oh well, learn something new every day.

Since when can you record the music choose channels? per the contract between comcast & MC your DVR is not allowed to buffer or record any of those 45 + music channels.

I don't remember when I tried it the first time. I found out about it when I was running out of space on the DVR, and wanted to use the buffers for recording (extra 4-5%), so I started recording two music channels (via manual recording) as I assumed they would take up much less space than video, since they don't have live video. And it worked on both counts!

I am contemplating going from D* to Comcast, particularly since it looks like there will be a Tivo option in the not too distant future.

My area has the SA8300. I am a little confused, as usual, as to what is going to happen down the road. Will I just get the Tivo roll-out on this box, or will it be swapped out for the Panasonic (which seems like a REALLY good thing!)

Thanks!

I am contemplating going from D* to Comcast, particularly since it looks like there will be a Tivo option in the not too distant future.

My area has the SA8300. I am a little confused, as usual, as to what is going to happen down the road. Will I just get the Tivo roll-out on this box, or will it be swapped out for the Panasonic (which seems like a REALLY good thing!)

Thanks!

You will more then likely get the IGUIDE software rollout first on your SA 8300HD DVR.

When the TiVo software is available in your area for the SA platform, you will have to order the Comcast-TiVo DVR upgrade, as it will be an additional cost per month.

At this point, there is no hard news about roll-out of the TiVo software onto the Panasonic box. I suspect they're watching the Motorola roll-out before making any firm statements in that regard.

You will more then likely get the IGUIDE software rollout first on your SA 8300HD DVR.

When the TiVo software is available in your area for the SA platform, you will have to order the Comcast-TiVo DVR upgrade, as it will be an additional cost per month.

Scanpa - is the Motorola 3216 still the best model currently available out of all the Moto DVR boxes? I have the 6412 but am getting a HDMI display so figure it may be a good time to pick up the extra HD space and HDMI connection.

You mean 3416, not 3216.

The 6412p3 & 3412p1 are the same DVR one does Analog & Digital Cable, the other only does Digital Cable.

same with the 6416p3 & 3416p1 just a bigger HDD

The newest STB is the 3416p2 it has a few newer electronic parts.

The 6412p3 & 3412p1 are the same DVR one does Analog & Digital Cable, the other only does Digital Cable.

same with the 6416p3 & 3416p1 just a bigger HDD

The newest STB is the 3416p2 it has a few newer electronic parts.

Is there a way I can readily identify a 3416p1 vs 3416p2? Is there any difference worth fighting for if they can only find a p1?

I plan to go to the local Comcast office and get a new one, and I'm quite sure that the person at the desk will not know anything about it. In fact they probably won't even know what a "3416" is. What's the best way to request this when I'm standing in front of them so they know what box to pull from the back for me?

Also I recall hearing there were a lot of problems with the HDMI audio. Have they got all those bugs worked out by now?

I think I'm going to hold onto my 6412 for a while after I get my 3416 just to make sure...

Scanpa,
Have you heard anything about when the DCH boxes will be rolled out ??

Laters,
Mikef5

Any updates on the Panasonic 250GB DVR?

Do the Pace HD dvr's have larger hard drives? I know the Panasonic will but if those aren't released until after the Pace units it may be worth upgrading while we wait for the Panasonics.

Do the Pace HD dvr's have larger hard drives? I know the Panasonic will but if those aren't released until after the Pace units it may be worth upgrading while we wait for the Panasonics.
The Pace Tahoe has a 160GB hard drive (same size as the 6416/3416 boxes), but it does support an external HDD connected through the eSATA port (as long as the firmware version isn't 9.21). There is a thread on this board about the Pace boxes, which are already being deployed by other cable companies.

Do any of the newer cable boxes/DVR's correctly support HDMI with HDCP so that we finally can route DVI or HDMI video cables through recent AV/Receivers, which really are "HDCP Repeaters" with upconversion and HDMI v1.1 switching? This is a critical compatibility question that has frustrated many home theater owners to date, and left them very angry with cable (and satellite) companies.

Also, later this year, we finally may start to see HDMI v1.3 added to the 2007 crop of A/V Receivers. Will these new cable boxes use the older HDMI 1.1 or the newer 1.3?

The current boxes do not support HDCP Repeating, though I don't know about the newer Moto 3416.

Also, I recently read that four Comcast markets back East initially tested the new OCAP technology that's in these new DVRs, and that it next would be rolled out to about six other cities in early 2007. If true, does anyone have any idea which six markets might be in phase II?

Do any of the newer cable boxes/DVR's correctly support HDMI with HDCP so that we finally can route DVI or HDMI video cables through recent AV/Receivers, which really are "HDCP Repeaters" with upconversion and HDMI v1.1 switching? This is a critical compatibility question that has frustrated many home theater owners to date, and left them very angry with cable (and satellite) companies.

Also, later this year, we finally may start to see HDMI v1.3 added to the 2007 crop of A/V Receivers. Will these new cable boxes use the older HDMI 1.1 or the newer 1.3?

The current boxes do not support HDCP Repeating, though I don't know about the newer Moto 3416.

It is not the STB. It is the STB firmware (Drivers, Control Codes, ect.)

The new updated F/W 16.35 has fixed most all issues of the HDMI problems. HDMI 1.1a is the current support build from Moto.

The new updated F/W 16.35 has fixed most all issues of the HDMI problems. .

Does it fix the problem that on certain directly connected monitors, the cablebox needs to be turned on after the monitor (or the hdmi cable has to be physically pulled and reinserted)?

It is not the STB. It is the STB firmware (Drivers, Control Codes, ect.)

The new updated F/W 16.35 has fixed most all issues of the HDMI problems. HDMI 1.1a is the current support build from Moto.

...and can the HDMI version supported in Moto DVR/cable boxes be updated through firmware? In other words, can these boxes eventually be upgraded to support HDMI v1.3 when it becomes available (of course, assuming no hardware changes)? I guess I never really thought about this, but always assumed this was not possible.

A large part of HDMI 1.3 is the option of using a higher transmission data rate. I'm pretty sure that can only be changed by replacing the TMDS transmitter chip. Deep color is another addition. Since a cable box inherently uses content based on standards that don't support deep color, trying to add that via cablebox firmware is of dubious value. Overall, I don't understand why people are so gung-ho about HDMI 1.3 at this point.

- Mike

Hey did you see the Panasonic SD boxes are out! A guy over at broadbandreports.com in the Comcast forum says he has one and here's a link to the manual:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TZPCD3000.PDF

Anyone see this? Looks like its another Motorola Clone (Like the Pace Box). This is an SD Box, but it's nice to see RS-232 Control, IR Blaster, USB, Digital audio, optical audio and S-Video on an SD-Box.

Hey did you see the Panasonic SD boxes are out! A guy over at broadbandreports.com in the Comcast forum says he has one and here's a link to the manual:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TZPCD3000.PDF

Anyone see this? Looks like its another Motorola Clone (Like the Pace Box). This is an SD Box, but it's nice to see RS-232 Control, IR Blaster, USB, Digital audio, optical audio and S-Video on an SD-Box.

Cypher,

that STB has been out for over 2 years. It's junk. No one likes it too much, has a high failure rate.

Scanpa,

I never saw that STB before. Never knew Panasonic even made STB's. Did you ever get to mess with it?

Thanks for the info. If Panasonic made such a crappy SD Box, I hope they fare much better with the 250GB DVR.

Scanpa,

I never saw that STB before. Never knew Panasonic even made STB's. Did you ever get to mess with it?

Thanks for the info. If Panasonic made such a crappy SD Box, I hope they fare much better with the 250GB DVR.

like stated it is about equal to the GI / Moto DCT 22xx & 25xx series STB.

I never seen them in use.

I know many people are more anxious for the Tivo interface, but I want the 250 GB drive. Anything new on these boxes coming available?

I know many people are more anxious for the Tivo interface, but I want the 250 GB drive. Anything new on these boxes coming available?

I heard they just finished the EPG for the pannys, and they should begin service by July

I heard they just finished the EPG for the pannys, and they should begin service by July
Beginning of July or non-specifically July?
Ready for the SE/SC PA area?
Did you find out definitively whether this DVR will have two or three recording tuners?

I heard they just finished the EPG for the pannys, and they should begin service by July

Is the Pace HD-DVR on the same timescale?

Not to resurrect an old topic, but has anyone heard more specific dates as July seems to be coming up quick!

Not to resurrect an old topic, but has anyone heard more specific dates as July seems to be coming up quick!

I haven't heard any new news, but I want to know too! If this comes out, it may bode well for Panasonic dvd recorders using the same hardware :-)

Not to resurrect an old topic, but has anyone heard more specific dates as July seems to be coming up quick!

Apparently, Comcast is field testing the new Panny box in certain of its NJ Moto MSOs starting this month according to a thread here http://www.satelliteguys.us/comcast-cable-forum/98531-new-hd-dvr.html

Dana

Apparently, Comcast is field testing the new Panny box in certain of its NH Moto MSOs starting this month according to a thread here http://www.satelliteguys.us/comcast-cable-forum/98531-new-hd-dvr.html

Dana

Interesting stuff! So it is becoming a reality!

Has anyone confirmed the number of tuners, 2 or 3?
Does anyone know the full roll out schedule?

Has anyone confirmed the number of tuners, 2 or 3?
Does anyone know the full roll out schedule?

It is possible that this is the box mentioned at a trade show last month. http://www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=147483 Note "multi-tuner."

Panasonic is featuring its PCH2180 OCAP HD-DVR set top box, OCAP-based high definition Plasma televisions and OCAP application development tools.

The PCH2180 is an Advanced Multi-tuner OCAP Set-top receiver that integrates high definition video recording, a multi-stream CableCard Host Interface for separable security, and a high-speed DOCSIS modem to support DOCSIS System Gateway (DSG) signaling in a compact set-top configuration. The PCH2180 includes support of a variety of digital video codecs including MPEG-2, MPEG-4 (H.264) and VC1 and has capability to incorporate a MoCA Home Networking option.

The PCH2180 will be available in Q4 2007.

Other reports indicate that it will be tested on Comcast Moto systems for the remainder of this year and then be rolled out in 2008. SA systems will be tested in 2008.

Dana

It is possible that this is the box mentioned at a trade show last month. http://www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=147483 Note "multi-tuner."



Other reports indicate that it will be tested on Comcast Moto systems for the remainder of this year and then be rolled out in 2008. SA systems will be tested in 2008.

Dana

This is good news! They gave it a model number, which makes it more real :-) Sadly they didnt give it a simple name. PCH-2180? Why not P-250? :-)

The fact that it says "multi tuner" instead of "dual tuner" may keep hope alive for more than two tuners, or perhaps ability to use VoD/OnDemand in parallel with the two tuners?

This is good news! They gave it a model number, which makes it more real :-) Sadly they didnt give it a simple name. PCH-2180? Why not P-250? :-)

The fact that it says "multi tuner" instead of "dual tuner" may keep hope alive for more than two tuners, or perhaps ability to use VoD/OnDemand in parallel with the two tuners?

Of course the info posted on the first page dated Jan 2006 says "triple tuners" http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html

The Panasonic boxes will provide HD DVR capabilities, and offer triple tuners and a minimum of 250GB of storage--almost double the amount available on Comcast's existing DVR set-tops. The boxes will also have both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4/H.264 decoder capabilities: Comcast says that H.264 will not only allow higher video compression rates, but also allow consumers to use their televisions to "enjoy media elements commonly available on the Internet." In addition, the boxes will feature USB 2.0 functionality, allowing them to be connected to other media devices, such as digital cameras. The deal calls for Panasonic to initially supply Comcast with 250,000 of the boxes, and Comcast will have the option of acquiring up to a million of the boxes in the first year, and of ordering additional volumes in subsequent years. The first 250,000 boxes will be loaded with Panasonic's OCAP middleware.

Hopefully, we'll get more info after the Comcast cust in NJ gets his box on Wednesday.

Dana

Of course the info posted on the first page dated Jan 2006 says "triple tuners" http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html

Dana

Thanks for the link!

I saw the mentions of triple tuners and I hope they are three user-usable tuners, however, some people have pointed out in this thread that the Motorola boxes talked about three tuners, but only two of them are user-usable. So that was the big question on the number of tuners...

(Also being able to use On-Demand independently of the tuners would be another plus - i dont know if this Panasonic box can do it, but i hope it does!).

If the user indeed has a choice of MPEG2 or MPEG4/H.264 per recording that would be great for increasing the number of hours one can store. But I don't know if this will depend on the source only, not the user's choice.

I wasn't aware that Comcast also signed a deal with Samsung to priovide SD STBs. There is no mention of DVR functionality of the Samsungs, but i'm not sure.

What's the deal with these things? They were supposed to be out by 4th qtr 06 now we're almost 2 qtrs past that and none have been dispersed yet. Any new info?

What's the deal with these things? They were supposed to be out by 4th qtr 06 now we're almost 2 qtrs past that and none have been dispersed yet. Any new info?

The Comcast cust who was supposed to get his installation today and report back as per my Post 183 hasn't done so yet. I'm a bit concerned that maybe Comcast has asked him to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement since he gets to use the box free for seven months.

Also, supposedly, some NH Moto Comcast cust will get these boxes soon to try out - it's considered part of the Boston DMA - before rolling them out more widely in that DMA.

Dana

The latest from the NJ cust who is supposed to be getting the latest and greatest...

Update!!! I was not able to be there for install because they came late. So my wife let Comcast tech in to bring new DVR. When I got home, I rushed to the Den to find Motorola 3416's!!! AhHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I called Comcst and they told me that the driver must have gone out with what they had in stock.....Apoligies.......I don't know why........ Today I am getting the new one's and I will post a review as soon as possible!

Link: http://www.satelliteguys.us/comcast-cable-forum/98531-new-hd-dvr-2.html

Dana

I heard that it is supposed to have a new guide revision. I hope it's more powerful, better written software than the most recent one on the Motorola box. Heck even a simple little ipod has anti-aliased text, swift fluid animations, and a stylish color interface. Another thing I'm concerned about is the remote queue issue. Usually the I-Guide and/or Motorola DVR (not sure who's at fault here, software or hardware) locks up in the guide, and then it executes all of your remote commands at once.

Let's hope all of this waiting is worth it. Hope it's not just a slightly different version of a Motorola DVR with the same lag and semi-horrible reliability.

I heard that it is supposed to have a new guide revision. I hope it's more powerful, better written software than the most recent one on the Motorola box. Heck even a simple little ipod has anti-aliased text, swift fluid animations, and a stylish color interface. Another thing I'm concerned about is the remote queue issue. Usually the I-Guide and/or Motorola DVR (not sure who's at fault here, software or hardware) locks up in the guide, and then it executes all of your remote commands at once.

Let's hope all of this waiting is worth it. Hope it's not just a slightly different version of a Motorola DVR with the same lag and semi-horrible reliability.

No, it is apparently completely different which is what the holdup has been about. A knowledgeable poster on the other forum noted...

... if you get this new Panny HD DVR box it will have a brand new iguide software that at some point will be rolled out onto existing Moto and SA set-top boxes. The Panny boxes will just be the first to have it is all. This iguide should from what I hear be feature rich with great graphics and speed, speed and speed...


Dana

I'll believe it when I see it. I think it'll be junk just like the rest of their crap. Plus I don't think the boxes will hit the street until way into 2008. Just my opinion. I know they keep recirculating broken 3416 boxes because I am on my 11th box in 3 months. Every other time I record HD content it's all pixellated and has broken audio. Also some boxes do the "remote jam" more or less than others. I really hate Comcast but they unfortunately haver the best product out there.

The Comcast cust in NJ who was apparently offered a new Comcast HD DVR box on seven month no charge trial didn't get it. Comcast is now stonewalling, claim they don't kniow what he is talking about, etc.

My guess is that they found out about his online comments and decided they didn't need to involve him in the trials. It is highly likely that anyone who is involved in these beta tests will have to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement in any event.

Link: http://www.satelliteguys.us/comcast-cable-forum/98531-new-hd-dvr-2.html#post936590

Dana

That's always standard practice for beta tests for high-profile scenarios.

That's always standard practice for beta tests for high-profile scenarios.

Exactly.

Dana

An NDA for a freaking cable box. Gosh these people think this is like nuclear bombs or something. Ohhh better keep it hush hush, we wouldn't want Sony to copy the panasonic box...

That's not the concern. Rather, the concern is that some participants will be utter idiots and have no appreciation for the concept behind testing (i.e., stuff won't necessary work while it's being tested!) NDAs prevent such morons from posting bad things about the upcoming product from their quasi-informed, though concretely clueless perspective.

That's not the concern. Rather, the concern is that some participants will be utter idiots and have no appreciation for the concept behind testing (i.e., stuff won't necessary work while it's being tested!) NDAs prevent such morons from posting bad things about the upcoming product from their quasi-informed, though concretely clueless perspective.

Boy its nice to still have a few smart people left in this world. :D Yup it sure is amazing how many people will take a testing unit knowing its "a testing unit" and complain when something doesn't work. Now if only the final release iguide software wasn't also still in beta we would be set and ready to roll huh.

Here's the latest http://news.com.com/TiVo+says+Comcast+accepts+software+for+DVRs/2110-1046_3-6194008.html?tag=nefd.hed

Dana

Here's the latest http://news.com.com/TiVo+says+Comcast+accepts+software+for+DVRs/2110-1046_3-6194008.html?tag=nefd.hed

Dana

Wow a tech project finishing ahead of schedule? :-)

One of the comments in the CNet story says country-wide distribution is Q2 2008 (minus 3 days perhaps).

I guess this was all a pipe dream.

I guess this was all a pipe dream.

What happened?

Nothing really. That was my point. I was being a little dramatic but it's been months and no one has one yet. Strange isn't it?

Nothing really. That was my point. I was being a little dramatic but it's been months and no one has one yet. Strange isn't it?

That's one way to get the attention of those who know!

I was hoping the Panasonic one would come out and be more reliable than all the other boxes from Comcast. But as you said, it's not moving a lot!

This thread is about 18 months old and no units have hit the street yet. I did find some info that had them hitting the street in 4Q 2007.

We'll see.

I really hate these moto boxes. I would even give the often mentioned Tivo software a try just to see if it works better. But I am not going to hold my breath for that either.

The Panny HD STB had to be re-done to add Full M-Card ability to stay with FCC rules.

The STB are now due out in 1Q 2008

The TiVo software will run on Comcast's Motorola STBs not on the Comcast Panasonic 250GB HD-DVR STBs at least initially. I have seen posts that it will be ported to SA's DVR STBs later on. I haven't seen any posts that it will be ported to the Panasonic 250GB HD-DVR STB.
Here's the latest http://news.com.com/TiVo+says+Comcast+accepts+software+for+DVRs/2110-1046_3-6194008.html?tag=nefd.hed

Dana

The TiVo software will run on Comcast's Motorola STBs not on the Comcast Panasonic 250GB HD-DVR STBs at least initially. I have seen posts that it will be ported to SA's DVR STBs later on. I haven't seen any posts that it will be ported to the Panasonic 250GB HD-DVR STB.


Russ,


The New Panny STB is Motorola Based, So are most of the Pace Models now used via Comcast.

Unlike the SA series, the port to these models will require very little code changes.

:)

The Panny HD STB had to be re-done to add Full M-Card ability to stay with FCC rules.

The STB are now due out in 1Q 2008

The FCC rules were such a big surprise...riiiiigght.

jtm

The FCC rules were such a big surprise...riiiiigght.

jtm

Well, the cable cos fought them right up until the end so now they are playing catch up. ;)

Dana

Russ,


The New Panny STB is Motorola Based, So are most of the Pace Models now used via Comcast.

Unlike the SA series, the port to these models will require very little code changes.

:)


Thanks for the update! I'm looking forward to this DVR! But what do you mean by they are "Motorola based"? Are they going to be running the same software as the current Motorola/Pace DVR boxes? Or do they have more in-common? Thx!

Thanks for the update! I'm looking forward to this DVR! But what do you mean by they are "Motorola based"? Are they going to be running the same software as the current Motorola/Pace DVR boxes? Or do they have more in-common? Thx!

A good analogy would be PC's vs. Macs. Two different platforms, different CPU instruction sets, therefore different guides/operating systems and a different encryption scheme.

Motorola based Headends talk to the box via the ALOHA protocol for authorizing services, VOD, 2-way, etc.. and use the Motorola MediaCipher encryption scheme. Some guide software that runs on Motorola/Broadcom based CPU's are I-Guide, PassportDCT, Microsoft Guide, and Verizon IMG.

Scientific Atlanta based Headends talk to the box via the DAVIC protocol for authorizing services, VOD, 2-way, etc.. and use the SA PowerKEY encryption scheme. Some guide software that runs the Scientific Atlanta PowerTV platform are SARA, Passport, Time Warner Navigator.

Scientific Atlanta software is more mature and robust. For example that platform has the ability to do Caller ID on screen, high color games, guide animations, transparencies and fade effects. Motorola software has been very utilitarian until the Verizon Fios IMG guide. Hopefully developers will fix the limitations of the Motorola platform in the future with some creative programming.

Anyone have an update on the status of the Panny HDDVR box. I called to order Comcast HD service and the sales rep said they are offering two HDDVR boxes the Moto 3416 and he said a Panasonic. He didn't know the model number and when he looked it up he said it was PCD 3000. Are they in fact rolling these boxes out? I am in NJ, close to Union, where the sales rep was located.

Can anyone confirm this is in fact correct? If so I will place an order tomorrow if I can get the Panny 250gig box! Does anyone have one yet?? There is scant info out there.
Thanks

No that's a different panasonic box.

PDF Manual Here:
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TZPCD3000.PDF

It's so hard to find any information about it online so it must be very rare. Word on the street is that its a terrible box.

I also saw a Samsung cable box off of a Time Warner site. Never saw a Samsung box in person or heard of anyone who uses one. Makes you wonder how many other obscure boxes are out there. Seems like you either have a Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, or Pace. It's rare to have anything else.

Ok, so the sales rep had the wrong part number. Which is a bummer cause I would assume then that there is no Panasonic HD-DVR available.

I did a lot of searching for info on the Panny DVR and couldnt find anything. What is the word on the street. Why is it terrible?

Just for the bigger drive alone, it sounds better than the 160gig that comes on the Moto Box...

Ok, so the sales rep had the wrong part number. Which is a bummer cause I would assume then that there is no Panasonic HD-DVR available.

I did a lot of searching for info on the Panny DVR and couldnt find anything. What is the word on the street. Why is it terrible?

Just for the bigger drive alone, it sounds better than the 160gig that comes on the Moto Box...

isn't the 3416 only 120 gig?

The 3412 is 120 gig, the 3416 is 160 gig.

The last 2 digits of the DVR models of Motorola STB indicate the built in internal HDD size.
XX00 = NO HDD
XX08 = 80 GB HDD
XX12 = 120 GB HDD
XX14 = 140 GB HDD
XX16 = 160 GB HDD
XX18 = 180 GB HDD
XX20 = 200 GB HDD
XX25 = 250 GB HDD
XX32 = 320 GB HDD

These are the only size HDD STB Models available for purchase, However not all are in service or used by our MSO's.

So, 320GB DVRs are available, they just won't supply them to us? :mad:

I'd gladly pay a premium.

When Comcast was still only supplying the 120GB model, some people noticed that they could substitute their own 160GB drive (but no larger). I wonder if some of the newer Motorola boxes that Comcast is using (the DCH's) would recognize a raw 320GB.

Of course most of these experiments were done by Canadians who owned the boxes.

New Panasonic TZ-PCH2180 HD-DVR Spec Sheet:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=181931&catGroupId=49552&surfModel=TZ-PCH2180

Panasonic Digital Cable Products Home Page:
http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/digital-cable-technology.asp

Credit goes to scanpa for digging up this information for me.

Enjoy.

Just looking at it makes my palms sweaty... :D

Just looking at it makes my palms sweaty... :D

Agreed!

Gosh were A/V geeks :rolleyes:


:)

'Three solid state tuners and QAM demodulators'

So, this indeed will turn out to be a three-tuner DVR, as originally planned?
Because, I don't think the OOB tuner is considered QAM, is it?
Even if it, I wonder if they would even list it as tuner, since is only for data.

'250 minimum internal HDD'

:)

I have asked the forum Mods to please update the thread title to reflect the model number.

I have asked the forum Mods to please update the thread title to reflect the model number.


Title revised.

Thank You CPanther95.

:)

If this box is released for retail sales I could see myself buying it to replace my Comcast Motorola 6412. Depends on price of course.

If this box is released for retail sales I could see myself buying it to replace my Comcast Motorola 6412. Depends on price of course.


This STB is not made for end consumer purchase, Like Motorola's DCT/DCH/QIP/QIPH, they are only sold in bulk to MSO, Teleco.


Sorry.

Any idea when I can trade in my dct 3416 for the panny in the Seattle area?

The STB has yet to ship to Comcast as of yet.

New Panasonic TZ-PCH2180 HD-DVR Spec Sheet:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=181931&catGroupId=49552&surfModel=TZ-PCH2180

Panasonic Digital Cable Products Home Page:
http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/digital-cable-technology.asp

Credit goes to scanpa for digging up this information for me.

Enjoy.

Great catch!

I like the PDF file with the specs, so nice, it has two RCA out (yellow, white, red), which is a nice touch and it also keeps the RF Out!

Wow three tuners, so it is really a three-tuner device? And it has front connectors as well (USB and something else?)

This looks exciting on paper :-)

looks very nice. hopefully we aren't waiting years for it like tivo. I'll take any excuse to dump my 3416.

Would this use the same software as the Motorolas? Is the software what limits native output or is there a chance this will have it?

Would this use the same software as the Motorolas? Is the software what limits native output or is there a chance this will have it?

I think it can work on both SA and Motorola systems because it has a full OCAP stack for the software, and cable card slot for the decryption and security handling.

It resembles more of a SA architecture with a dual core processor, smaller footprint, and port arrangement on the back. But I think this is an entirely new system. Were there Broadcom chips in it? I don't recall and the server hosting the spec sheet is currently down.

Would this use the same software as the Motorolas? Is the software what limits native output or is there a chance this will have it?

It will not have the same software as the Motorola DVR STB series.

The PCH-2180 STB will use the following:

Panasonic STB Software
Panasonics OCAP Middleware
Panasonic Firmware
TVGUIDE - jGuide EPG software (Java-OCAP Based)

Not sure what version of the VOD software it will use, might be based on MSO, and headend systems.

CableCard external security.

I heard that with some upcoming legislation we will be able to purchase third party cable boxes and use a cable card of some sort. Is this true? Perhaps we can do this already? I heard the timing was around this fall and to expect to see a lot of competition by the STB manufacturers with some great offerings. Just wondering if this is accurate news and if so how close are we?

I heard that with some upcoming legislation we will be able to purchase third party cable boxes and use a cable card of some sort. Is this true? Perhaps we can do this already? I heard the timing was around this fall and to expect to see a lot of competition by the STB manufacturers with some great offerings. Just wondering if this is accurate news and if so how close are we?

Already can--TiVo HD!

Already can--TiVo HD!

They had a Tivo HD at Circuit City today for $199 open box (all cables and remote included).

I heard that with some upcoming legislation we will be able to purchase third party cable boxes and use a cable card of some sort. Is this true? Perhaps we can do this already? I heard the timing was around this fall and to expect to see a lot of competition by the STB manufacturers with some great offerings. Just wondering if this is accurate news and if so how close are we?

Yes, that time has already past. However the selection is still pretty limited to TiVo S3 & TiVo HD STB.

There were some indications that there would be some competitors by now, but that has not come to pass. The demand for privately-owned STBs must be even lower than we thought.

There were some indications that there would be some competitors by now, but that has not come to pass. The demand for privately-owned STBs must be even lower than we thought.

Well, I am really getting tired of my Motorola 3416 - mainly the limited hard drive space and the unresponsiveness of the unit (falls asleep sometimes for 1-2 minutes).

I've heard that the S3 Tivo can be had from CC for just $199. That makes it very tempting. HOWEVER the S3 is only a dual tuner. If it had 3 I would go for it.

Couple of questions guys:

1) How soon may we see this Panasonic box in major markets?

2) I read long ago that the Comcast software would be available as an option with the Moto boxes. Is that still in the works? When might we see this?

Thanks!

The TiVo S3 is still a bit more expensive than that, but there is the TiVo HD which is in that price-range.

If you want three tuners, get two HD DVRs. That's what I did. >shrug<

1) My understanding is that we won't necessarily see this Panasonic box in markets that use other equipment. So even once this box hits the market, so to speak, that doesn't mean we'll see it everywhere, at least not as a rental.

2) I think you meant "TiVo software" not "Comcast software". Yes, that's in the works. Word is that some Comcast customers already have it, but are under NDA so cannot discuss it.

2) I think you meant "TiVo software" not "Comcast software". Yes, that's in the works. Word is that some Comcast customers already have it, but are under NDA so cannot discuss it.

Yes, meant 'TiVo Software'.

Do you think this software will eliminate the sluggishness of the DVR (and how it sometimes stops responding to remote commands for 1-2 minutes), or is that a function of the hardware we have to live with?

Also do you think they will (finally) add a native resolution output mode (so if the signal comes in 720p it outputs 720p, and if 1080i it outputs 1080i) without us having to manually change the resolution as we change channels (like I have to do now)?

Thanks!

I believe we'll have to wait and see.

Yes, meant 'TiVo Software'.

Do you think this software will eliminate the sluggishness of the DVR (and how it sometimes stops responding to remote commands for 1-2 minutes), or is that a function of the hardware we have to live with?

Also do you think they will (finally) add a native resolution output mode (so if the signal comes in 720p it outputs 720p, and if 1080i it outputs 1080i) without us having to manually change the resolution as we change channels (like I have to do now)?

Thanks!

The Motorola DCT/DCH 64xx & 34xx series do not currently support native resolution mode. The TiVO interface will not change any of the current hardware limitations of the STB.

The Panasonic PCH-2180 Does have native resolution output however.

I guess we would have to write Motorola to suggest the native output resolution mode.

I don't see it as an impossible task. They would just have to write it in their firmware and make it an optional selection on the black and white resolution setup page (power off then menu).

The box already knows the input resolution because it has to send the decoded frame to the right scaling algorithm. It has to know if 720P is coming in because if it needs to scale it to 1080i there obviously is a specific process for it (and vice versa). If 1080i is coming in, it would have to know because it simply passes the 1080i along (if that's your output resolution). Last but not least, it knows when 480i comes in because it switches the whole user interface to SD mode. If 480p is your output resolution for SD, it simply passes the decoded stream through it's cheap deinterlacer.

They need to sandwich a new module of code between this resolution detecting and handoff to the image scaler. The new module, if active would simply cause some kind of interrupt to the outboard video driver and switch resolutions. Sure there would be a little extra delay in channel surfing, but even the SA boxes, DirecTV, Dish, etc.. all induce an extra second or so in channel surfing time.

Most of the delay is the TV actually locking onto a new resolution, and some TV's blank the video longer than others.

In my case though for instance, last night I switched the DCT6412 from 1080i to 720P to watch the football game on ESPN. Today I'm likely to switch it back to 1080i depending on what I watch tonight. I find that if you keep the resolution 1080i for 1080i channels, it looks much crisper. If I have the resolution set to 1080i but watch a 720p channel, the image is slightly softer, as if someone turned the sharpness down 30 points.

The Panasonic DVR will be a welcome change. As soon as it becomes available I hope someone speaks up in this forum. I'm almost more excited for the Panasonic DVR than the Motorola/Tivo port.