So when are the HD-DVD drives for the PC will come out? I would like some info, release date and product informations.....


Respond please.. Thank you

This hands-on review is the only thing I know of for a HD-DVD PC drive. Its a pre-production review of the NEC HR-1100A.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13006
sorry for the late reply. I tried going to that site but the page could not be opened.. I'll try again.

I posted this on my Distilled News thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639010):

NEC at CeBIT 2006 (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16206)

In a nutshell:
HD DVD reader for March
HD DVD reader/DVD writer for May
HD DVD writer for July

I think I'm going for the HD-DVD.. March is almost there oh i'm excited. :)

what price do you guys think it will likely run in USD? $800 range maybe? :) Thanks for the input guys!

Just so you have as perfect information as possible:

Blu-ray burners are announced for April. If you want to know more, ask in Blu-ray players forum ;)

Just so you have as perfect information as possible:

Blu-ray burners are announced for April. If you want to know more, ask in Blu-ray players forum ;)
i've heard that the BlueRay doesn't use MPEG4 for movies so I'd have to say "eww....". :p They're still using old MPEG2 which takes up humongous(if I spelled it right) room.. very inefficient. :)

i've heard that the BlueRay doesn't use MPEG4 for movies so I'd have to say "eww....". :p They're still using old MPEG2 which takes up humongous(if I spelled it right) room.. very inefficient. :)

You heard wrong, probably from one or several maliciously skewed sources.

Blu-ray supports the exact same codecs as HD DVD.

But will not use them initially Grubert;)

Sure they have them in the specs but are commited to MPEG-2 right now,well at least initially.

also before buying a drive make sure it will work. AACS is extremely demanding and there might be issues with XP (might need Vista)

i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.

I hope there will be a mac burner out soon.

Sony is the only studio which has announced they will be using MPEG-2 initially. The other 6 major studios have not yet made any official claim as to which codec they will be using.

True, but authoring tools for other codecs with BR have been reported to not exist, so it's most likely they will use what Sony currently has available. But I can hope to be pleasently surprised in that regard. This is contrasted to Warner, which most definitely will be using VC-1 (and HD-DVD authoring tool for this codec is there and supported by MS)...

i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.

I'm sure you will be able to replay things you have burned yourself, but for pre-recorded ROM playback, Anthony is very correct in the wait and see. At the very least you will need to have HDCP enabled in the graphics card and monitor.

Sony is the only studio which has announced they will be using MPEG-2 initially. The other 6 major studios have not yet made any official claim as to which codec they will be using.

Warner has said it would like to use VC-1.

The question is are the BR authoring tools with VC-1 ready ? If not, when will they be ready ...

i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.

HiDef DVDs are very different from normal DVDs. They need protected media paths. That means

- You need Vista
- New video card with HDMI (to be sure to get full rez)
- Possibly new motherboard

Apart from these, you may also need new CPU & GPU purely from speed perspective. Most of the currest systems would be too sluggish.

I'm holding off on buying new video card because of this.

I hope there will be a mac burner out soon.

Doesn't mac use standard burners but with different drivers ?

HiDef DVDs are very different from normal DVDs. They need protected media paths. That means

- You need Vista
- New video card with HDMI (to be sure to get full rez)
- Possibly new motherboard

Apart from these, you may also need new CPU & GPU purely from speed perspective. Most of the currest systems would be too sluggish.

I'm holding off on buying new video card because of this.

More about Vista graphic card requirements: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16252

Oh, and probably new (and more expensive) memory as well...

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/06/ecc_for_vista/

But will not use them initially Grubert;)

Sure they have them in the specs but are commited to MPEG-2 right now,well at least initially.

First, it's a STUDIO's option to chose to put their content out in MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. The players for both High Def Media will support both. And remember that the discs are simply Media, you can put whatever the hell you want to on them. It's a matter of what the player standards support, and what the content providers put on them.

As far as MPEG-4 vs MPEG-2 superiority debate goes. What do you care if the Image Quality is as good in MPEG-2 as it is in MPEG-4 but takes a larger amount of space. It's not like your storing this on a HDD (yet anyway ;) I'm sure we'll be ripping them soon enough - you can always crack a nut if you got a big enough hammer)

The big deal on MPEG-4 is not superior quality, but lower bit-rate for the same quality. This is why you see Satellite providers moving towards this because of limited bandwidth, their sub-banding of HD Channels requires them to overcompress the data until it looks like crap. You're not seeing cable go this route because they have plenty of bandwidth.

At the current highest quality terestrial broadcasting of HD we're at 19Mbps with MPEG2. A BluRay capacity is 25GB on a single layer disc, that's almost 3hrs worth of video of 'Discovery Channel HD' Image quality.

Now, take those numbers and convert to a 15GB single layer HDDVD and you get under 2hrs for MPEG2, but you can get the same quality using MPEG4 with less space.

Think about it, HDDVD capacity is effectively requiring studios to go strait to MPEG4, while BluRay capacity gives the studios a choice.

CCourtney

At the current highest quality terestrial broadcasting of HD we're at 19Mbps with MPEG2. A BluRay capacity is 25GB on a single layer disc, that's almost 3hrs worth of video of 'Discovery Channel HD' Image quality.


That is not completely true. You need more like 25Mbps to get to "transparency" compared to the master - or so I've read in the big threads.

You add lossless audio tracks and extras to that and you will start seeing that 25GB is simply not enough for movies. So, what do they do ? Will they cut extras or reduce PQ / AQ ? If you know the answer, you know why we are talking about this.

BTW, from some of Ben's posts in the big threads I'm not sure mpeg2 can achieve real transparency to the master....

Edit : Here is a better link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6935872&&#post6935872).

That is, a codec like VC-1 doesn't always get better because it throws out stuff you don't see. Sometimes, it flat out does a better job than MPEG-2 without throwing away anything more. Case in point: the "entropy coder". The back-end of all of these codecs is a *lossless* compression engine. Since this part is lossless, no data is thrown away regardless of codec used. Yet, VC-1 uses a more advanced algorithm that can be 10 to 15% more efficient than MPEG-2's entropy coder. So you get something for nothing .

Other gains also come from using variable block size where even better edge definition is achieved than MPEG-2, since the block can fit the source image better than 8x8 blocks in MPEG-2.

All in all, this stuff gets complicated quickly . But the net summary is that VC-1 can always match the picture quality of MPEG-2 but definitely not the other way around. By using MPEG-2, BD leaves quality on the table for no reason, especially in BD-25 variant which will be used for now.


Look at this post by David (http://hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?postid=2559651) :

in A/B testing, high-bit-rate MPEG2 still has some high-frequency roll-off that's an inevitable artifact of even "perfect" MPEG2 compression while even at 1/2 the same bit-rate WM9 looked nearly transpartent to the source D1 master.

Edit : Here is a better link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6935872&&#post6935872).


(by a Microsoft VP)

Sorry nataraj but just because this is the HD DVD forum you don't have carte blanche for unchecked spin.

Sorry nataraj but just because this is the HD DVD forum you don't have carte blanche for unchecked spin.

Grubert, if you know something better - post it. Don't just troll here ...

BTW, I linked to a post on the BR software forum :p

That is not completely true. You need more like 25Mbps to get to "transparency" compared to the master - or so I've read in the big threads.

You add lossless audio tracks and extras to that and you will start seeing that 25GB is simply not enough for movies. So, what do they do ? Will they cut extras or reduce PQ / AQ ? If you know the answer, you know why we are talking about this.

BTW, from some of Ben's posts in the big threads I'm not sure mpeg2 can achieve real transparency to the master....

Edit : Here is a better link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6935872&&#post6935872).

Look at this post by David (http://hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?postid=2559651) :

Nataraj,

You'll find that opinions differ greately as to what qualifies as 'transparent' WRT the master. That's why I used the example of 'Discovery Channel HD' which has a native rate of ~19Mbps and is something almost all of us have seen on terrestrial broadcasts and can all agree on it being impressive. You'll find people on the D-VHS forum claiming higher data rates are required. You'll also find that the amount of motion and spatial frequencies are going to play a major role in this too.

But let's go back to the claim of 25Mbps is the requirement for transparency. That gives you over two hours of video on a 25GB disc.

As far as extra's are concerned again we go back to, it's the studio's choice. Personaly, I don't care about extra's and seldomly if ever watch them, and I don't think the buying public purchases DVD for their extra's - Do you?

Back to a main point though, BluRay isn't preventing anybody from using MPEG4 if they want to, but it's not really a necessity if studio's don't want to. For HDDVD it's a necessity.

CCourtney

But let's go back to the claim of 25Mbps is the requirement for transparency. That gives you over two hours of video on a 25GB disc.

We have been thr' this so many times .. its not useful rehashing the whole thing. You should also check what is needed for audio. See the big thread for this particular discussion (how much time will fit into 25GB).

Back to a main point though, BluRay isn't preventing anybody from using MPEG4 if they want to, but it's not really a necessity if studio's don't want to. For HDDVD it's a necessity.

Question is not one of prevention. Its about fecilitation ... who has a BD authoring tool that supports new codecs ?

Anyway, this is totally OT for this thread and for HD-DVD. They are using VC-1 even with 30GB and thus the problem affects only BR - and thus its a concern for the BR area of the forum.

There are HD DVD titles coming in MPEG-2 too, according to Tom McMahon.

Question is not one of prevention. Its about fecilitation ... who has a BD authoring tool that supports new codecs ?


That's a Joke right? It reminds me of a commercial 'Sonic's got it, others don't' It's not a BD vs HD-DVD disc authoring tool, it's a High Definition VC1 authoring tool. Sonic's High Definition DVD authoring tool is what most people are mistakingly imply is a HD-DVD Authoring Tool for VC1. You can take this and put it on any friggin media you so chose, with any friggin wrapper that's needed.

The discs are MEDIA, they hold information. VC1 is a Codec, its for encoding/decoding of video.

CCourtney

That's a Joke right?

Seach and you shall find.

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

"Heres some new technology folks, we aren't $elling the hardware, but we are $upporting it. Oh and by the way, that old version of window$ you have won't operate it, but heres its replacement, that'll be $299 thanks"

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

You are barking up the wrong tree here ... MS couldn't care less. But Hollywood does.

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

"Heres some new technology folks, we aren't $elling the hardware, but we are $upporting it. Oh and by the way, that old version of window$ you have won't operate it, but heres its replacement, that'll be $299 thanks"


Folks we have more things to worry about than vista....

There are no available pc video cards that are HDCP compliant.... New video cards needed for HD-DVD (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/)

Also there are very few HDCP compliant computer monitors available...

I am looking for the links and will edit..

Also there are very few HDCP compliant computer monitors available...

Most people who use a HTPC (atleast on this forum), use it with a HDTV / Projector. So, in that sense we already have HDCP compliant "monitors".

Personally I'd not care if I see SD or HD on a 20" monitor ... when it gets to 10 feet, I'm obviously more concerned.

Most people who use a HTPC (atleast on this forum), use it with a HDTV / Projector. So, in that sense we already have HDCP compliant "monitors".

Personally I'd not care if I see SD or HD on a 20" monitor ... when it gets to 10 feet, I'm obviously more concerned.

Please let me know if I am not understanding how this works but if one has a HD-DVD drive in their HTPC doesn't it have to come out of it's video card. If thats the case it is not just as simple as when are hd-dvd drives available but one will also have to get a new HDCP compliant video card.Currently their are no HDCP compliant cards available.

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

You are barking up the wrong tree here ... MS couldn't care less. But Hollywood does.

Or rather, Microsoft doesn't want to take the trouble of making XP support HD DVD. No money in a Service Pack for them. Lots of money in new OS.

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

"Heres some new technology folks, we aren't $elling the hardware, but we are $upporting it. Oh and by the way, that old version of window$ you have won't operate it, but heres its replacement, that'll be $299 thanks"

Not only that but the latest rumors are that Nvidia/ATi will only be releasing HDCP video cards to OEM manufacturers. The pessimist inside of me can see this happening, and then on the other hand they simply cannot do this. There are too many who build their own PCs(I am one of them) who will need/want to load Windows Vista and will need one of these cards.

Personally, I want to build an HTPC with an HD-DVD drive to start off with and then maybe add a blu-ray drive later. This way, I have an HTPC and I'm covered on both formats. I can't do this of course until Windows Vista comes out, and I'm not paying more than $150(maybe $200) for a PC ROM player(I don't care about recording right now).

Or rather, Microsoft doesn't want to take the trouble of making XP support HD DVD. No money in a Service Pack for them. Lots of money in new OS.

Lets see Apple support it in older O/S as well ...

Please let me know if I am not understanding how this works but if one has a HD-DVD drive in their HTPC doesn't it have to come out of it's video card. If thats the case it is not just as simple as when are hd-dvd drives available but one will also have to get a new HDCP compliant video card.Currently their are no HDCP compliant cards available.

As I've noted earlier - you new Vista, new Video/Audio cards and possibly new motherboard/cpu.

As I've noted earlier - you new Vista, new Video/Audio cards and possibly new motherboard/cpu.

More toys for the HTPC, that's the way I see it ;)

I'm certain somebody like creative labs will come up with a solution as they did with DVDs back when low end DVD players > $500 they had the Dxr2 Encore, which was a DVD ROM drive w/ a video overlay card and DVD decoder/MPEG2 (PCs really didn't have the performance to decode DVDs at the time.) And the cost was $300. I had one of these, and I had my PC hooked up to my TV. This was my first HTPC (not sure the term was even coined then.)

Along the same lines, this could be done with HD-DVD and BluRay, except you'd be pushing it out an HDCP compliant interface (HDMI.) And the cost would be much less than a stand alone unit.

CCourtney

HiDef DVDs are very different from normal DVDs. They need protected media paths. That means

- You need Vista
- New video card with HDMI (to be sure to get full rez)
- Possibly new motherboard

Apart from these, you may also need new CPU & GPU purely from speed perspective. Most of the currest systems would be too sluggish.

I'm holding off on buying new video card because of this.
Check my sig... I don't think I need to worry about "speed" part. ;)




Do I really need windows Vista just to play HDDVD?? Is everyone sure about this?

Check my sig... I don't think I need to worry about "speed" part. ;)

We are probably talking about 64bit dual core. Anyway, you can try the apple / MS trailers and get an idea. If you want to do PIP etc. you need better.

Do I really need windows Vista just to play HDDVD?? Is everyone sure about this?

We know Vista will do it. Others - not so sure - anyway no current OS will do it - since none of them have protected video path that AACS (Hollywood) demands.

I'm certain somebody like creative labs will come up with a solution

The poblem is not just in decoding. Its in protected paths and AACS certification and financial liability. Keith (of Sigma) indicated that they are not trying to get a H/W solution on XP. Lot of us started off on HTPC using the Hollywood+ card - if you remember.

Check my sig... I don't think I need to worry about "speed" part. ;)


I think you do. Dual core and X1800 couldn't even decode H.264 fully from 20Mbps to 40Mbps. Also how about VC-1 AP at 30Mbps peak?

I think you do. Dual core and X1800 couldn't even decode H.264 fully from 20Mbps to 40Mbps. Also how about VC-1 AP at 30Mbps peak?
Mine does superPi 1m@ 28 sec flat.

Try name a few top notch Intel or AMD systems that'll pull this number hehe.. unless you overclock the hell out of it with supercooling. ;)



I've been running VC-1 MPEG4 1920x1080p trailer videofiles at very smooth framerate. I experienced "no stuttering" in any way. "Pauses"?.. I'm not even talking about pausing, not even stuttering. :


My system spec is well beyond what can be found today, unless it's specially modified and overclocked to an extreme level. This is why I'm saying not to worry about the speed part. ;) I don't even need x1800 series video card to to go along with. My good'ol x800xt does it just fine.

It is so damn fast that I run games like BF2, Quake4, and some intensive rally racing games at video resolution of 1600 x 1200 @ 16x AF @max graphics settings with no slow-downs.. The problem with my pc is that it's too fast.



nataraj , thanks for the info though. Maybe I'll have to look into getting windows Vista..

I've been running VC-1 MPEG4 1920x1080p trailer videofiles at very smooth framerate. I experienced "no stuttering" in any way. "Pauses"?.. I'm not even talking about pausing, not even stuttering. :

Was that vc-1 or h.264 ?

I don't do any pc gaming - so no idea whether game speed translates to decoding speed.

Anyway, as I said - there might be a need for a new chipset. There have been some hints about it - but no confirmation.

Just to try to bring this back to the original topic a little, let me lay out the facts as I understand them and feel free to correct me (especially if I'm wrong :) )

we still don't know:

A) When PC Drives will be available to consumers.

B) How much they'll cost (although the link to the NEC drive preview said 400 Euros ($475) in Germany).

C) We don't know what OS will support them, and with that..

D) We don't know how much encryption content producers (studios) will put on the final release discs, but possible upgrades to HTPC systems may be necessary (esp. HDCP-compliant DVI output video cards).

If these facts are correct, then I probably will NOT spend an extra 40% on a projector with HDCP and 300 extra lumens, as I likely won't add a HD optical drive to my HTPC for quite some time. Too bad... and I hope I'm wrong!

Let's layout what we do know:

A) Reportedly, the HD-DVR Read-only is March '06 and the Read/Write version is May '06.

B) They will be expensive the first few months, but will probably mature in price and performance within a year.

C) Vista will have native support for HD-DVD and BR-DVD. Very probably, the drive venders will ship drivers for MCE to increase drive sales. MCE DRM may or may not be up to snuff when HD player software is available, which is NOT KNOWN today, although the DVD drive venders MAY ship the usual OEM versions of players.

D) DRM is indeed implemented at the software level (i.e. the movie disk). We know this much about the HTPC hardware required:

1) The Sony Vaio Media PCs are HDCP-compliant and available today.

2) Intel (which was one of the HDCP inventers before spinning off the business) has produced three motherboards that have an extra "protected path" between the CPU and the PCIe 16X slot, and these three motherboards are capable of enabling HDCP, and are the basis of all non-Sony "Viiv-enabled" PCs shipped since CEDIA. HTPCs based on the Intel motherboards D975XBX (ATX), D945GBOLKR (BTX), and D945GPMLKR (Micro ATX) can be made HDCP-capable.

--> AMD devotees and those who favor non-Intel chipsets LOSE.

3) In addition to the HD DVD drive, the above motherboards require a PCIe 16X HDCP-compliant video board, which adheres to the Intel specification for the "Media Expansion Card" interface. This can either be in the form of a graphics co-processor board (required for the ATX motherboard, but not shipping yet) or (on the two Intel motherboards with GMA950 onboard graphics) it could be a simple KSV-management board which when present in the "Viiv-enabled" HTPC will provide a stream of KSVs (Key Selection Vectors) to an authorized display (authorized by the EDID handshake). The actual decoding of the video must be performed by the DISPLAY not the HTPC, using the stream of KSVs from the source. The MEC-compliant PCIe KSV boards are available from Silicon Image and two other vendors today.

4) You need much more than an HDMI or DVI interface for such a display to be HDCP-compliant. The display must have the EDID handshake protocol enabled to be recognized as an authorized HDCP signal sink. Then it must have some onboard processing to decrypt the video from the HDCP-compliant source using the stream of KSVs from the HTPC or HD-DVD player or whatever.

That last requirement is the heartbreaker. I have no doubt there are Sony displays (those pricey XBRs and Grand WEGAs) that have onboard decryption. I doubt any other DVI/HDMI displays available today have such. One way to tell for sure is to see if HD-DVD movies with restrictive DRM will play back from the Toshiba HD-DVD players on your DVI/HDMI display, I guess.

Believe me, I'm crying in my beer. I just shelled out $1800 two months ago for a Westinghouse 37" 1080p monitor. It's GREAT with 1080i HDTV signals, but I really doubt it has the onboard processing power to decrypt the 1080p60 video from an HD-DVD or BR-DVD drive in a HTPC.

Gary

1) The Sony Vaio Media PCs are HDCP-compliant and available today.

The question is, does HDCP compliance mean AACS compliance as well ? I don't think so. Thats why XP with MCE will pobably not play HD-DVD.

Because AACS needs protected video path, and that we get by using Vista. Vista will also come with hd-dvd software player. For BR we would need a 3rd party s/w player (which should come with the drive). What I'm not sure is what hardware would be needed for AACS+Vista. We know that ...

1. It should have a HDCP capable video card

and thats about it. Should it have chipsets that support protected path ? Or is it the whole motherboard ? How about the CPU ?

Ofcourse there are different performance related questions, as well.

This article in Extreme Tech is interesting, if nor instructive.

Will DIY Vista Media Centers Be DOA? (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1928702,00.asp)

Thanks for the thoughtful posts - looks gloomy. Can't wait until these protection schemes are defeated... Correction, I can, and will wait until they are. Not so much so I can copy the 1080P content, but so I can do with it what I want. Those Jerks.

I hate to blur the line between this and the software forum, but do we 'know that we know' that most vendors are going to use the full copy protection? That is to say, it sounds like what I've read above is a worst case scenario, if they implement all the DRM techs then we'll need all that specific hardware, but do we KNOW they will lock things down that fully?

I hate to blur the line between this and the software forum, but do we 'know that we know' that most vendors are going to use the full copy protection? That is to say, it sounds like what I've read above is a worst case scenario, if they implement all the DRM techs then we'll need all that specific hardware, but do we KNOW they will lock things down that fully?

I'm sure the big studios will use AACS. ICT flag (to downrez over analog) ... not all will use.

It's looking like this may be the first series of high performance A/V equipment for which there will be NO early adopters. And as much as we all love to hate Micro$oft, I think they are right about both formats being useless to those of us looking to the whole house, portable shared media future.

I don't believe it for a minute. I personally do not have a screen in every room. I have a couple of HD displays in a Home Theater, one widescreen 1080p monitor and one front projector/screen, and 5.1 sound. I use the theater practically every night for DVD or regular TV viewing (the wife and I have seperate TiVo's in different rooms).

Since Microsoft is taking it's sweet time about Vista, like as not I'll own a standalone HD-DVD player or BR-DVD player first. If HD movies are available on disk, I'll have them in my Home Theater. As will most HT enthusiasts.

Gary

As to the original question, does anyone know what HD-DVD drives there will be for a PC? I've not seen anything much at all, appart from the NEC HR-1100A. And the joint venture between NEC and Sony with optical drives leaves me wondering whether it will appear at all. Has anyone heard anything about other manufacturers producing HD-DVD drives?

As to the original question, does anyone know what HD-DVD drives there will be for a PC? I've not seen anything much at all, appart from the NEC HR-1100A.

Toshiba is supposed to comeout with a drive announcement next month. They are also making laptop drives ....

bump

FROM HDBEAT.com:


If you're really ready for next generation DVDs, this guy on the CDFreaks message boards is selling NEC HD-DVD HR-1100A readers for your desktop PC. Not sure why you'd want one since we don't know when you'll actually have HD-DVDs to play on it and probably no software to play them with, but you would still be first. We've seen commercial Blu-ray players from Japan pop up on eBay before, but this may be the first opportunity to have HD-DVD technology all to yourself, and for only $120.

Since you won't be playing HD-DVDs anytime soon, enjoy your stunning 32x CD/8x DVD playback speeds and wonder what might be ... someday. As soon as HD-DVD drives are available from somewhere other than some-guy-on-a-forum, we'll let you know.

HD Beat Story (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/29/be-the-first-on-your-block-with-an-hd-dvd-drive/)

I'd love to see this thread revived, 4.5 months later.

Things look more positive, the ICT flags are NOT on current HD-DVD discs, so the worry about upgrading every facet of our HTPCs seem unwarranted. I would LOVE to know if any drives have become available since this thread died, and of course, if there are any workable drivers for XP/OS X 10.4 (or 10.5?).

My MacBook Pro plays H.264 1080p trailers from apple's website with ease. Does that suggest that it could similarly play 1080p mpeg4 video with ease, from a video processing standpoint, if we had a rom drive in an enclosure and drivers?

Apologies if this article (http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/07/28/nvidia_hdcp_graphics_card_presentation/) has already been posted but it's a relatively recent article which shows that playing HD-DVD on a PC may not be too far away. As one who has enjoyed the benefits of a nice HTPC system over the past few years I would prefer this route with HD-DVD. However, it may simply be too much hassle and alot cheaper just to buy whatever 2nd gen HD-DVD player Tosh introduce to the UK later this year.
Jules

For what i paid "stole" my tosh hd-dvd player for i could strip the drive and rest of the parts and use it in my HTPC.
Problem is getting the software/drivers in XP/Vista to make it work.

Nothing has changed. It's been taking way too long. I gave up waiting.. Will probably need to give another 3~ 5 years before HD-DVD drives work with the PC. Waiting few months is a joke... Don't even bother waiting.

Nothing has changed. It's been taking way too long. I gave up waiting.. Will probably need to give another 3~ 5 years before HD-DVD drives work with the PC. Waiting few months is a joke... Don't even bother waiting.
What? 3-5 years?

They already work in laptops, I'm sure desktop drives aren't too far behind.

Basically it will require a whole new computer for me. computers become paperweights anyway after a couple of years. I was kind of excited about being able to get a drive for the computer but now see it as an imposibility. What a shame. I guess the technology is really starting to out-pace me. That is to bad.

I don't understand why you think you'll need a whole new computer. I understan the need for ICT flags to have a 'protected path' which would equate to a new mobo, video card and monitor, but none of the current discs are thusly flagged so why couldn't NEC just produce the drives, pop out a driver or two and then it's up to our CPU/Video card to see if it's up to the task or not to do it?

Is the A1 a P4 2.8, is that right? Obviously it's optimized but it's certainly a joke compared to most modern processors. As I stated, my MacBook Pro eats 1080p H.264 for breakfast (actually scales it up to my 2560x1600 30"), never dropping a frame. Am I missing something? Is it more than ICT Flagging that would prohibit play?

Alex

ICT Flag is for analog video path (ie: component), not digital video path.

Therefore, people who want to use DVI outputs, or even a DVI-Vga adapter will likley be out of luck. The HDCP protection will downres to 720X480....this is part of the HDCP spec, not ICT.

as for VGA output, technically this is analog, however depending on how the drivers are written it may also be a no-go.

Bottom line, it is very confusing and no one really knows what configuration will actually work in the "real" world.

As for horsepower, if one wants a really smooth picture one will likley require some sort of hardware decoder on the videocard. Which for some might mean a significant upgrade.

From my personal perspective to have hassle free viewing one is gonna need:

a) Vista
b) HDCP compliant card (which is actually LICENCED from HDCP group) like the soon to be released 7600GT from MSI.
c) HDCP compliant display
d) Hardware decoding on the videocard for MPEG-2, VC-1 and H.264.

------

I want an HTPC with HD DVD and BD really badly, however I don't think we are gonna see anything concrete until Vista hits the shelves.

I would wait until early DIYers makes it work, then buy based on that. Trying to predict now is very risky.

Earlier in the thread the idea was that AACS would require protected path for unencrypted digital signal (nothing to do with ICT at all). That was the reason we all thought HiDef DVDs would require vista and possibly lot of new h/w.

But it looks like windvd 8 will have a player for XP. That means once you get a driver for the NEC HD DVD ROM drive, we should be all set to go. Won't even need a new video card if we just want to use analog video.

Hehe... looks like Sony screwed up again. Their BluRay disc drive for PCs can't play BluRay movies! What a bunch of morons! :p

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709802

I don't understand why you think you'll need a whole new computer. I understan the need for ICT flags to have a 'protected path' which would equate to a new mobo, video card and monitor, but none of the current discs are thusly flagged so why couldn't NEC just produce the drives, pop out a driver or two and then it's up to our CPU/Video card to see if it's up to the task or not to do it?

Is the A1 a P4 2.8, is that right? Obviously it's optimized but it's certainly a joke compared to most modern processors. As I stated, my MacBook Pro eats 1080p H.264 for breakfast (actually scales it up to my 2560x1600 30"), never dropping a frame. Am I missing something? Is it more than ICT Flagging that would prohibit play?

Alex

why i will need a whole new computer? lets start with the Geforce 5700 and go from there... :)

I will edit my post because what i meant was It will require a whole new computer for me.

yea and my souped up computer(custom built and cooled) eats 1080p H.264 for brunch, but the problem is compatibility. Nobody has gave me information on "what" software I need to "play" HD-DVD movies using HD-DVD drive on a PC that has windowsXP/2k/server2003. My video card is ATi x800XT and use SVGA(UXGA/WUXGA class) cable. The thing is, I *have been* running High Defnition .TS and MPEG2 video files(I have tons of 1080i and few of 1080p) as well as some of the 1080p H.264 and it plays as easy as sugar frosting cup cake. Obiously the *contents* in the HD-DVD drive maybe different than what I have been playing, wouldn't you say so? And how is my computer will recognize the HD-DVD drive and actually play... that is what I'm wondering.

But it looks like windvd 8 will have a player for XP. That means once you get a driver for the NEC HD DVD ROM drive, we should be all set to go. Won't even need a new video card if we just want to use analog video.
well good to hear. Thanks for the update, but when is that going to happen?

well good to hear. Thanks for the update, but when is that going to happen?

There is a thread in BD forum about it. Someone got the drive and windvd 8 - which is currently only OEM. When that version gets released for retail - we should be able to play using the NEC HD DVD ROM (and we get the driver).

Anyway, NEC drive should be sold retail soon (Oct ?) and that should come with the driver and player.

Edit : See this.

NEC 2X HD DVD Multireader (http://www.de.nec.de/press.php/id/651/lang/ENG)

Ismaning, Germany, August 2005 – The world's first 5 1/4 inch PC drive HR-1100A for HD DVDs from NEC will be available from October onwards. The HD DVD drive plays back HD DVDs, DVDs and CDs. This is all down to the optical head that was developed by NEC which can read blue, red and infrared light.
...
NEC will be exhibiting at the IFA 2005 in Berlin at Booth 317 in Hall 26. In a 'digital living room' and in other multimedia rooms and offices, NEC will demonstrate applications for perfect home cinema enjoyment. Addressed by an HD DVD PC drive or an HD DVD player, NEC's plasma TVs and home cinema projectors provide a brand new visual experience.

Thanks nataraj. Please keep us updated. You could post it here or PM me if you don't mind. I appreciate it..

I'll open a new thread dedicated to this - when we get more news.

Edit : See this.

NEC 2X HD DVD Multireader (http://www.de.nec.de/press.php/id/651/lang/ENG)
"The rewritable HD DVD-RWs offer 20 GB (single-layer) or 32 GB (dual-layer) storage capacity, which means up to 64 GB on double-sided media."
Someone should tell NEC that the old HD DVD-RW format is now called HD DVD-RAM :)
Hehe... looks like Sony screwed up again. Their BluRay disc drive for PCs can't play BluRay movies! What a bunch of morons! :p

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709802
The moron would be the one who wrote the Cnet headline (and perhaps everyone who believes everything they read on the Internet without checking facts...)

The BWU-100A is a rebadged Panasonic drive which already has been tested successfully with playback of commercial BD-ROM movies.

FYI- That article was from 2005. I think it meant October 2005. I havent seen anything on release dates recently?

FYI- That article was from 2005. I think it meant October 2005. I havent seen anything on release dates recently?

Oh ... didn't notice that (the link was in the main forum recently).

Well, then, we don't really have a release date :o

I am going to Hong Kong, and would be interested in a HDDVD drive, if available.

My computer has a N vidia 7600 G card, An Athlon 64 x 2 4200 +, vista ready, and has HCPC protocol.

I heard that there is an Oum version Powerdvd 6.5, who would handle HD DVD playback.

Blue Ray could be interesting too, but does a drive excist that works under this format?

what good is it if you can't get the actual HD-DVD PC drive.


Gentlemen, the time's up and it is official that the HD-DVD Pc drives are not available, and will not be available.


I'm gonna have to save up and get the Sony Blu-Ray PC drive. I really like the attitude of Blu Ray is trying to "sell" their drives. Because of that, they shall be respected. ;) Not like the stupid arse HD-DVD crap...



Ya know... I'm so pissed off right now that I would want to pay $1000 for the Blu Ray drive. I would gladly turn down purchasing the HD-DVD drive even if it was offered for 5 bucks. Actually, I want to pay $2000 for blu ray. The lessen here is, the *availability*. This is more important than anything else, meow meow?

Is this suposed to be funny? HDDVD, BR, are in their starting blocks. It is sad enough there are 2 systems.

Nobody benfits from this and it doesn't help to insult one camp or another.

Fact is, thoe with a HCPC device wants hD that way, in stead of buying other stand alone players.

no, it's not to be funny but meant to be sarcastic.

I really deserve to use sarcasm here. I waited long enough. I had enough of it. I waited and waited and waited... .. nothing happens. Where is the damn HD-DVD PC drive. hello hello meow emow


Here comes Blu Ray!~

I'm gonna have to save up and get the Sony Blu-Ray PC drive.

Thats the day an official pc hd dvd drive will be available for sale :D

I think HP is starting to offer HD DVD drives as an upgrade to computer purchases. Don't know about drives you can go and buy yet, though. But if HP has them as an option, then drives in the store can't be that far away.

The only HD-DVD writer I've seen is for X-Box, is that still true?

The XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is officially supported to work with Windows XP. Just run Windows Update. You can purchase PowerDVD Ultra from Cyberlink (and soon an HD playback pack for WinDVD8) to play back HD DVD movies.l

I already bought Sony Blu-Ray BWU-100A PC Drive few days ago. :)


I am so glad I bought it.


I feel so great to ditch that stinkin HD-DVD. oh wait.... the HD-DVD drives are not available. That's rite. :)


See my thread here.. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773723

HP has 2 [two] types of HD DVD drives.

With what you spent on that Sony drive, I could've bought two XBox 360 Add-on drives, 2 copies of Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra, and still have money left over for 5 or 6 HD DVD movies.

HP has 2 [two] types of HD DVD drives.
yea but...... where are they. I needed something that I can pay $$$ so I can have it. All I hear is they got it... HP has them... also available on laptops.... but what good is it if I actually can't purchase it and use it.:) The keyword "purchase" and "use" are very important here. :D meow meow




With what you spent on that Sony drive, I could've bought two XBox 360 Add-on drives, 2 copies of Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra, and still have money left over for 5 or 6 HD DVD movies.
but it's not official.... for PC. I want an official item for PC that officially works. I looked for it hard.... and patiently waited ... and waited... but nothing is happening. Sorry!! You had your chance! :D

but it's not official.... for PC. I want an official item for PC that officially works. I looked for it hard.... and patiently waited ... and waited... but nothing is happening. Sorry!! You had your chance! :D
What has to happen before you consider it official? Microsoft has released drivers for the XBox 360 Add-on memory controllers. PowerDVD Ultra works with that drive. What else do you need?

BTW, the Liteon Blu-ray writer can be had for $500.

well dang then why didn't you say so before?... At the time I didn't get any official answer. I needed an official answer to make official decision and make an official action of purchasing and be happy officially.


Yea i know... I couldn't wait.. so I paid the premium even though the Blu-ray drive can be had for $500.

anyways, I'm done posting here since I have made the decision and purchased it. But I thank you for your participations. Truely.....

but it's not official.... for PC. I want an official item for PC that officially works. I looked for it hard.... and patiently waited ... and waited... but nothing is happening. Sorry!! You had your chance! :D

Yes it is. The XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is officially supported by Microsoft for Windows XP (as I've posted above). It is recognized immediately. Just run Windows Update to install the driver for the XBox 360 HD DVD Memory Unit. PowerDVD Ultra also officially supports the add-on to playback HD DVD. I got mine for $175 Canadian, came with King Kong which is about $30, so in all the drive was about $145. Awesome deal.

Yes it is. The XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is officially supported by Microsoft for Windows XP (as I've posted above). It is recognized immediately. Just run Windows Update to install the driver for the XBox 360 HD DVD Memory Unit. PowerDVD Ultra also officially supports the add-on to playback HD DVD. I got mine for $175 Canadian, came with King Kong which is about $30, so in all the drive was about $145. Awesome deal.
MidnightWatcher,

But you cannot record with 360 HD-DVD add-on drive, or can you?!

The only HD-DVD writer I've seen is for X-Box, is that still true?
No, It's not true. That is HD-DVD reader only.

MidnightWatcher,

But you cannot record with 360 HD-DVD add-on drive, or can you?!


Correct, it is a reader. I was under the impression that IamAnoobieCheez wanted a drive to play movies on his HTPC.

With PowerDVD Ultra will the add-on play HD-DVDs at 720p or 1080i/p on a PC via VGA on a card without HDCP? Or will it downres like what WinDVD is doing?

With PowerDVD Ultra will the add-on play HD-DVDs at 720p or 1080i/p on a PC via VGA on a card without HDCP? Or will it downres like what WinDVD is doing?

It will play them however you wish -- 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24/30/60. It will not downres.

AFAIK, HDCP only applies to the Digital output, not the analog. You should be able to use the VGA output for whatever your video card and display can handel.

j

Thanks, I know HDCP only applies to the digital out, but the makers of WinDVD didn't know or care about that so they downrezzed the VGA. I was wondering if PowerDVD went overboard and did the same.

Toshiba has this press release of their latest drive.

"World’s First Dedicated HD DVD Write Drive for the Desktop Supports Read and Write to All Main Optical Discs.

TOKYO--Toshiba today brought the wide ranging capabilities of HD DVD to the desktop PC with the announcement of a standard height HD DVD drive able to read and write to HD DVD and to standard DVD and CD discs. Sample shipments of the new drive, SD-H903A, are scheduled to start this month.

The new SD-H903A integrates a blue-violet laser diode that can read and write to HD DVD-R discs and that offers support for high-density HD DVD-ROM discs, including high definition movie and video images. The drive also offers all the functionality of a super multi-drive, with high performance, high-speed read and write to all flavors of standard DVD and CD discs."

Did anyone ever get this working? I am losing patience waiting for an internal HD-DVD drive for my HTPC. I can get a refurb or used standalone Toshiba player for ~$300 so if I can take the NEC drive out and get it to work in my HTPC I will go that route.

Did anyone ever get this working? I am losing patience waiting for an internal HD-DVD drive for my HTPC. I can get a refurb or used standalone Toshiba player for ~$300 so if I can take the NEC drive out and get it to work in my HTPC I will go that route.????

Are you talking about an external Toshiba HD-DVD player or what..

The HD-DVD PC drives do not exist..... and may never come out. The Blu-Ray PC drives were out over a year ago. You really should stop waiting and get a Blu-ray drive.. I have it and love it. I'm dancing my azz shakin and cheer'in. Oh wee!! weeee!!

The XBox 360 HD-DVD drive can be used with a PC and WinXP if you install the attached drivers. Not bad when you consider it can be purchased for under $200. It's an external USB drive, which makes it portable so it can be used with both your HTPC and your regular PC.

Note: I have installed this driver on my own PC with no ill effects so far but as I do not have my XBox 360 HD-DVD drive yet I cannot confirm that it works. Here's a link to an article I found on setting up the drive for use with a PC:

http://www.uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/

The XBox 360 HD-DVD drive can be used with a PC and WinXP if you install the attached drivers. Not bad when you consider it can be purchased for under $200. It's an external USB drive, which makes it portable so it can be used with both your HTPC and your regular PC.

Note: I have installed this driver on my own PC with no ill effects so far but as I do not have my XBox 360 HD-DVD drive yet I cannot confirm that it works. Here's a link to an article I found on setting up the drive for use with a PC:

http://www.uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/

Any idea what those drivers do specifically? I just plugged mine into the computer and windows automatically installed drivers. Works fine using powerdvd ultra.

better read all the stuff thats going on right now about Vista and DRM before you get excited about any HD drives in your PC

????

Are you talking about an external Toshiba HD-DVD player or what..

The HD-DVD PC drives do not exist..... and may never come out. The Blu-Ray PC drives were out over a year ago. You really should stop waiting and get a Blu-ray drive.. I have it and love it. I'm dancing my azz shakin and cheer'in. Oh wee!! weeee!!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795138

and then there were two. ;)

????

Are you talking about an external Toshiba HD-DVD player or what..

The HD-DVD PC drives do not exist..... and may never come out. The Blu-Ray PC drives were out over a year ago. You really should stop waiting and get a Blu-ray drive.. I have it and love it. I'm dancing my azz shakin and cheer'in. Oh wee!! weeee!!

ugh, another useless post.

I realize the XBOX and HP external units are out and Toshiba has a HH internal and a slimline internal announced, although I have not seen an availablity date. Also because this is for a HTPC and just for playback I don't really need a writer so I am hoping for a reasonably priced internal reader. Oh well...

I cant believe a yr later and still no cheap PC drive, should be well under $100 by now, this is just a reader!!!, not a burners...SHEESH!!
They are milking this as long as they can!!!

Sony is the only studio which has announced they will be using MPEG-2 initially. The other 6 major studios have not yet made any official claim as to which codec they will be using.

That makes me feel confident.

???

j

I cant believe a yr later and still no cheap PC drive, should be well under $100 by now, this is just a reader!!!, not a burners...SHEESH!!
They are milking this as long as they can!!!


???

Under $100? You go ahead and be the guinea pig for that. You get what you pay for.

The XBox 360 HD-DVD drive can be used with a PC and WinXP if you install the attached drivers. Not bad when you consider it can be purchased for under $200. It's an external USB drive, which makes it portable so it can be used with both your HTPC and your regular PC.

Note: I have installed this driver on my own PC with no ill effects so far but as I do not have my XBox 360 HD-DVD drive yet I cannot confirm that it works. Here's a link to an article I found on setting up the drive for use with a PC:

http://www.uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/


Were you able to work this drive on a PC? If yes, could you please detail the method and would you recommend it over HD-A2 or 20?

I am thinking about purchasing the Xbox HD-DVD external drive....... since the movie titles like Troy, King Kong, The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift are available on HD-DVD and not on Blu-Ray.. I gotta tell ya, blu-ray sux.............. sux azz!!! I've been waiting for long long time and still would not release these titles in BD. I am disappointed. Things moving too slow. You don't know.... it could take years to release these titles. I ain't playing waiting-game anymore.. screw that.... Time to buy HD-DVD player.... argggg... wish someone could sell me a HD-DVD drive for cheap! $200 is a lot of money....

and yea, I have the PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra w/ latest build.

Has anyone checked out the Toshiba SD-H802A(250 bux)? A few places have it for sale and I believe it is internal(sorry if a repost). ;)

The Toshiba internal is basically the same as the Xbox add-on without the enclosure and power supply.

The Xbox drive works fine connected to a PC via USB. The drive itself is recognized in XP, but you need UDF 2.5 drivers to read the HD DVD file structure, and PowerDVD Ultra 7.3 (plus an HDCP video card and a failrly powerful PC) to play movies from it.

The A2 is much simpler, and cheaper if you count the cost of a new vid card and player software you need for the Xbox add-on.

Plus you need a real fast CPU and Vid card to handle it, my 3-4 yr old AMD XP2600 chip's wont handle it smoothly, real jerky playback, for a few hundred+ i got a D2.
I'm not upgrading the chip, mobo, memory and Vid card just to watch a few movies.

so what you're saying is that even though the WinXP will recognize the Xbox add-on drive and install the driver it still needs UDF 2.5 drivers?

Where do you find the UDF 2.5 drivers?

Is it something you can *right click* on the device in the device manager and *update driver* via internet??


Meow meow?

you can buy the toshiba hd drive off ebay from a respectable seller ( 99% on 14000 sales) in Hong Kong for 80$.
I believe you need a laptop ide connector to get it to interface with a PC. Its the same drive thats in the Xbox 360 external HD drive unit, info from people who ve dismantled it and put it into their PC succesfully can be easily found with a Google search.
The sellers ebay shop is "gameconsolehk", the drive is listed as toshiba SD-S802A, delivery to US I think was 20$ if you want to check it out.