Welcome to the Sony HS-60/51A Official TWEAK Thread.

While there many similarities between the older 51/50 and newer 51A/60 Sony projectors, there are too many differences. So, many folks agree we should establish a tweak thread specific to the new projector.

Please post your calibration & tweaking information in this thread. Maybe we will eventually achieve sticky status. :D

As a starter, here are the remote commands for accessing the SERVICE and FACTORY menus.

The SERVICE mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (UP arrow) (DOWN arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the service mode?"

The FACTORY mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (LEFT arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the factory mode?"

Any additional menus usually pop up under the main INFORMATION menu.


***WARNING***

It is possible to damage your display if you change some factory parameters. Stay way from parameter controls you don't understand, and others that you do, like Fan Temperature Threshold. You may also void your warranty.

When you 1st access the service or factory modes, take the time to write down all of the settings, just incase you get confused and unintentionally change a setting.

In many cases, of the hundred plus service/factory parameters, there are very few worth adjusting. You may find most of the parameters which benefit the calibration process are located in the service mode, so you can avoid the factory mode all together and the associated risk.

Enjoy your display and be careful if you decided to access the service/factory menus.

Thanks Byte. I'm looking forward to reading your impressions and custom settings for your 'baby Ruby'.
Cheers, Rob.

A quick question Byte. Do you know the thread size of the HS51/60 lens ? I want to fit a ND2 filter ~ I'm only using a 32" high constant height screen.
Thx, Rob.

Have you a tips to correct the Vertical banding ? It is present on the green panel

Can I assume that after using the key sequence to access the service menus that the same sequence brings up an option to leave the service menus and have just the user menus?

Thanks, going to try some of the posted setting tonight.

M./

Now that I have decided on where I will house my 51A I went ahead and replaced the AC sockets in the wall. My place was built about 40 years ago and the owner/builder cheaped out wherever he could. That means his electricians used the quick and dirty install method of jamming the solid copper conductor into those openings on the back of the duplex socket instead of taking the time to bend the conductor around and securing it to the screws. When I installed the new duplex outlet (just a normal consumer grade unit) I did use the screws and I guestimate I increased the contact surface area by at least a factor of 20, maybe 50.

I am also now feeding the DVD player and the 51A off a Transparent Isolator IV I AC conditioner I had obtained used last year. I also have a PS Audio P500 to try.

So I watched the beginning of The Big Sleep again where I had noticed the red push in the shadows and there was less of it. Blacks *seemed* blacker too. I can see where the green and red are mistracking but it is not glaring. Funny thing is that it often tints things completely in that a suit will be all the same shade of grey and so the entire suit takes a slight red tint while another characters clothing has a slight green tint.

But I really do have to work at getting concerned about it. I have driven 30 minutes one way into San Francisco for Noir festival screenings and I am getting a more pleasurable and involving presentation off my 51A then I ever have in a theater.

So looking into your AC might be worth a try if you do not know the quality of your AC outlets.

As it is now I have just a couple of tiny issues with my 51A and I only see them when watching black and white movies that should be just black and white. I also checked out Buster Keaton's The General and since it is tinted, it looked fabulous (as 78 year old silent movies go ;-).

M./

I am interested to know that too, even though the VB on this model does not bother me at all.

Have you a tips to correct the Vertical banding ? It is present on the green panel

Here are my factory RGB values pre-calibration. I will follow up later with how well these factory settings track grayscale as well as any new post calibration values for 6500k, 7500k and 9300k.

.......high...mid....low
RG...128...128...128
GG.....46....38.....28
BG.....61....48.....28
RB...124...122...121
GB...128...128...128
BB...139...138...134

I would note these RGB settings as well as the Gamma Shading settings in the factory menu seem to keep a fixed red value and work green & blue for color temp correction. This a definite change in calibration strategy which might help overcome some of the 50/51 red bias errors thru the 0-100 range. These setting might also contribute to the dimmer bright white output some folks have observed.

I hope to establish at what gain/bias values for red, blue and green clip. Then it should be possible to push max brightness at each color temp.

Here are some new found factory menu items which deal with EE/ringing. Both of the following items appear to be High Pass Filter (HPF) controls.

DISPLAY ENGINE

25 DE/HPF ON = 1 Setting this to (0) eliminates EE visible around dark letters & lines. You can see an apparent shift to a softer image. Setting this control to (0) appears to be the same as setting the master sharpness control to OFF.

26 DE/HPF TAP = 1 With Line 25 set to (1), this control expands or contracts the Edge Enhancement around dark letters. The expansion occurs equally to the left and right as the value is increased. Setting to (0) completely narrows the EE, while manitaining a very slight edge detail enhancement. This control appears to be a great way to adjust the aesthetic of the master sharpness control when the master sharpness is set higher than OFF.

My factory IRIS OPEN/CLOSE REG settings are 41/222.

We all know the following has been mentioned, but I thought it worth repeating for the new tweaking thread.

DISPLAY ENGINE

04 DE/UF SW = 1 Setting the value to (0) turns off the Gamma Shading function in the factory menu.

Byte,
Interesting finds. My service codes are very close to yours. Only off by a couple of digits if I remember correctly. I will check them and respond back when I have time. Iris numbers were 221/40 so we are very close there as well. I am wondering if Sony is getting their act together on uniformity. Are you noticing the same things I am noticing on the high IREs? As I noted, I have bumped my Iris down to 212 trying to pump up the higher IREs but still am getting a bit more haze than I like. I think I am going back to the factory settings unitl we get more confirmation.

Byte,
Interesting finds. My service codes are very close to yours. Only off by a couple of digits if I remember correctly. I will check them and respond back when I have time. Iris numbers were 221/40 so we are very close there as well. I am wondering if Sony is getting their act together on uniformity. Are you noticing the same things I am noticing on the high IREs? As I noted, I have bumped my Iris down to 212 trying to pump up the higher IREs but still am getting a bit more haze than I like. I think I am going back to the factory settings unitl we get more confirmation.

Please note I have not done any critical viewing. I simply turned on the OPPO and watched the OPPO screen while running thru the service mode settings.

I did play around with the IRIS open/close reg settings. You know how if you set the IRIS ADJ from 0-1, and then go to adjust either the close/open reg settings, the iris opens or closes? I found if I adjusted close/open to 0/190, the projected OPPO screen did not change value when switching the IRIS ADJ to 1 and making changes to close/open values. So I plan to put up a 10 & 100 IRE patterns and experiment with changing the CLOSE value from 41, as well as the OPEN value from 222. I had 40/205 as my close/open values on the 51.

I got the 51A in (1) day from NYC. Not bad for UPS Ground. :D

I'm still waiting on the Cliff probe swap before I can dive into calibrating. I also have a huge video project due Thursday night, so when I'm done here I will be diving back into editing. It's gonna be a couple of long days/nights. :(

Eric... it seems like the pixel structure is a little smoother on the 51A. I'm not sure why it's different, but I can get a little closer to the screen before I see SDE. Hmmmmm....

Thx for the new info Byte. I'm looking forward to your post calibration comments and settings. I'm guessing you didn't need to to use a filter with your 51.
Cheers, Rob. :)

Since the HS-60/51A appears to run out of RED 1st, a red filter might be helpful.

I have a Hoya FL DAY filter I could try and measure if I can get any additional contrast by being able to run green/blue a little higher.

Here are my factory RGB values pre-calibration. I will follow up later with how well these factory settings track grayscale as well as any new post calibration values for 6500k, 7500k and 9300k.

.......high...mid....low
RG...128...128...128
GG.....46....38.....28
BG.....61....48.....28
RB...124...122...121
GB...128...128...128
BB...139...138...134

I would note these RGB settings as well as the Gamma Shading settings in the factory menu seem to keep a fixed red value and work green & blue for color temp correction. This a definite change in calibration strategy which might help overcome some of the 50/51 red bias errors thru the 0-100 range. These setting might also contribute to the dimmer bright white output some folks have observed.

I hope to establish at what gain/bias values for red, blue and green clip. Then it should be possible to push max brightness at each color temp.

Here are some new found factory menu items which deal with EE/ringing. Both of the following items appear to be High Pass Filter (HPF) controls.

DISPLAY ENGINE

25 DE/HPF ON = 1 Turning this to (0) eliminates EE visible around dark letters & lines. You can see an apparent shift to a softer image.

26 DE/HPF TAP = 1 With Line 25 set to (1), this control has a range of 0-3. Setting to 3 moves the EE around dark letters to the left. Setting to (0) completely center the EE, while manitaining a very slight edge detail enhancement. (note the Sony service manual says this control only works with certain signal types. 720p HDMI works for me. I will check other signal formats later.)

My factory IRIS OPEN/CLOSE REG settings are 41/222.

We all know the following has been mentioned, but I thought it worth repeating for the new tweaking thread.

DISPLAY ENGINE

04 DE/UF SW = 1 Setting the value to (0) turns off the Gamma Shading function in the factory menu.


Who is the service manual ??

Have you a link to download this ?

Who is the service manual ??

Have you a link to download this ?

I believe the manual is only available from Sony in a printed form through the Sony parts department.

Please note I am still using the HS-51 service manual. I have not checked on a new manual for the 51A/60 yet.

Service Menu Values

.......high...mid....low
RG...128...128...128
GG.....49....44.....35
BG.....69....55.....34
RB...122...121...123
GB...128...128...128
BB...135...136...137

I am interested to know that too, even though the VB on this model does not bother me at all.

I am very concerned too.

Thanks to my hero !!

Eric... it seems like the pixel structure is a little smoother on the 51A. I'm not sure why it's different, but I can get a little closer to the screen before I see SDE. Hmmmmm....

It's funny, but I also noticed the same thing going from my HS50 to the HS60. And I was almost sure that the pixels on the HS50 were rounder. In the HS60 they seem much more like squares or rectangles. I am not sure, though, that this less SDE isn't because of something else... At least in my case, my HS50 had almost perfect pixel alignment - although the green was off, it was off by one pixel exactly. My HS60, on the other hand, has much better convergence, but the pixels are not so perfectly aligned - I can see something like less than 1/4 of a pixel off between the 3 panels. This is actually a good thing, from my point of view. This "micro misalignment" is only visible with nose-close distances to the screen, and has the effect of making the pixels seem larger, effectively masking the SDE.

Anyway, this was probably more due to luck than actually on purpose by Sony, I guess... :)

Dave.

I think I found something related to the bright corners issue, which the 51A/60 apparently shares with the Ruby..

Under the OTHER menu, it involves the IRIS CLOSE REG = ? control near the end of the menu range.

On the HS-51A, as I move the setting lower than 222 , I begin to see bright corners on dark black fields. Increasing the the value to just 225 cause the iris to close down just enough to eliminate the bright corners.

I still see the bright corners when going from a bright scene to a total black out, as the IRIS slowly closes down. I haven't seen an adjustment for controling the speed of the IRIS when closing down. Even setting the IRIS CLOSE REG at a maximum value doesn't affect the speed of the iris.

I also see that turning the IRIS to ON, ends up not being as dark as when in AUTO mode, and the IRIS ON mode will also produce bright corners on a black field. Does anyone know of a control for the IRIS condition when in the ON mode, as it does not seem to be fully closed?

I finally got around to some calibrating last night. I'll call it the mother load of calibrations :) as I calibrated for 9300K, 7500K, 6500K, at master contrast values of 70, 80 & 90.

I also calibrated for 9300K with IRIS OFF in both the HIGH & LOW lamp modes. I like to use these settings for watching sports with friends.

I have confirmed factory GAMMA 2 provides near perfect gamma 2.2 tracking, with the least amount of bump (2.8 at 40) on the bottom. I hope to try some custom GAMMA tweaks using the Sony Image Director software. Maybe I'll be able to achieve a flatter top to bottom gamma response.

Using a 100 value white screen, I found the clipping point for RED at each contrast setting. I then calibrated using only using GREEN and BLUE to achieve the color temps.

Post calibration, a contrast = 90 provided the most uniform grayscale tracking, with 80 the next best and 70 the worst. Oddly enough, contrast = 70 was marginally brighter (54 vs 52 FLs) at 100. But I'll take the flatter gray scale response over a touch more contrast at this point. I suspect this is due to the way gamma for red, blue and green track differently at different contrast settings and how red runs out on the high end differently at 70 vs 90 contrast.

One thing I tried different while calibrating the 51A versus the 51, I set the AUTO IRIS CLOSE/OPEN values at 0/255. This allowed for the gray scale patterns to be least affected by the IRIS state. Note, this is not the same as IRIS OFF, which does require a little different RGB tuning. I ran out of night, and with the sun coming up I'll have to wait to check out how the grayscale tracks when I return my IRIS CLOSE/OPEN values to normal.

I confirmed there is slight shift to RED when switching from LOW lamp to HIGH lamp. It's not much and maybe even something you would not notice as it only took a couple of (-) clicks of blue & green to compensate.

One thing I might try in the next session, is finding where GREEN clips and calibrating RED and BLUE to spec. This approach will likely let RED begin to run out at 90 and above, which makes for a little more blue at 90 & 100, but it also allows for a bit more contrast.

I think I will try to use the spreadsheet approach to posting my settings and I'll put it up when I finish up the next round.

I'm wondering if I could run an even higher contrast of 95 or 100, and still be able to achieve proper calibration and maybe see even better grayscale tracking. hmmmmm.... ;)

Thx for the update Byte. I'm interested to try your settings for 6500 and 7500K.
When you post them please itemise the changes to the service/factory menu in sequence, I don't want to screw this up ! (I'll take note of the current settings before making any changes.)
Cheers, Rob. :)

It's funny, but I also noticed the same thing going from my HS50 to the HS60. And I was almost sure that the pixels on the HS50 were rounder. In the HS60 they seem much more like squares or rectangles. I am not sure, though, that this less SDE isn't because of something else... At least in my case, my HS50 had almost perfect pixel alignment - although the green was off, it was off by one pixel exactly. My HS60, on the other hand, has much better convergence, but the pixels are not so perfectly aligned - I can see something like less than 1/4 of a pixel off between the 3 panels. This is actually a good thing, from my point of view. This "micro misalignment" is only visible with nose-close distances to the screen, and has the effect of making the pixels seem larger, effectively masking the SDE.

Anyway, this was probably more due to luck than actually on purpose by Sony, I guess... :)

Dave.

Doesn't the HS60/51A(US model), use the D5 PANELS, versus the D4, in last years(hs50)model? That is supposed to have better fill factor (50 versus 60% on the D5). Wouldn't that account for the perceived "smoother" looking pixel structure?

CHEERS, TC

Same panels as the HS-51 it just has no added scaling if you send it 720P so the image is sharper.

Same panels as the HS-51 it just has no added scaling if you send it 720P so the image is sharper.

Hi Kris...

I hope you had a good boat ride. ;)

Sony did not use D5 panel n they made their own. That's why VB is not a problem for Sony.

Doesn't the HS60/51A(US model), use the D5 PANELS, versus the D4, in last years(hs50)model? That is supposed to have better fill factor (50 versus 60% on the D5). Wouldn't that account for the perceived "smoother" looking pixel structure?

CHEERS, TC

Thx for the update Byte. I'm interested to try your settings for 6500 and 7500K.

OK...

Once you make your way into the service menu, pull up the main menu and look for W/B at the bottom. Inside you will see High, Mid, Low, Custom 1, Custom 2 & Custom 3. I suggest changing one of the Custom menus until you're sure you like the new settings. Note at the bottom the SAVE SETTINGS option. You will want to use that when you're done. Also note, you may have to go back to the USER menu to reset to the color temp you have elected to change. You should also note factory settings for Custom 1, 2 & 3 are equal to high, mid & low respectively.

When you click on Custom 1, the 1st of two available screens will come up. This 1st screen is for RGB GAIN settings and the 2nd screen comes up as you work down past Blue Gain. The 2nd screen is RGB Bias.

The 1st group of calibrations are for:

contrast = 80
brightness = 45
color = 50
hue = 50
Gamma 2
IRIS Auto
Low Lamp

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......132...........132..........132
GG........28............32.............33
BG.........27...........39.............54
RB.......121.........121............117
GB.......130.........129............127
BB........136.........136...........134

The following are for Contrast = 95, the other main controls are the same.

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......104...........105...........105
GG.......12..............16............17
BG.......14..............27............40
RB......103...........105..........104
GB......117...........122..........121
BB......123...........125..........124

Give these babies a whirl and post your thoughts.

OK...

The 1st group of calibrations are for:

contrast = 80
brightness = 45
color = 50
hue = 50
Gamma 2
IRIS Auto
Low Lamp

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......132...........132..........132
GG........28............32.............33
BG.........27...........39.............54
RB.......121.........121............117
GB.......130.........129............127
BB........136.........136...........134

Give these babies a whirl and post your thoughts.

I tried your settings above for 7500 and they made a nice improvement to my image.

Thanks for posting them. I still have a slight red push in certain shadows but everall the 51A is looking great. Between your settings above and my custom eyeball settings for B&W movies I get a great picture.

Just that last bit of red to work through. I talked with a friend and he said some DVD players from a few years back (my DVD players era) had a slight red push in their software and that could be the issue. I have an Oppo on order and who knows, maybe that will trim the red back a little more and then I will be home free.

I am designing a manual masking system for my screen and will post pictures and a "howto" for the thread. Guestimate right now is about $50-$70 in materials and setup/takedown of less than 2 minutes each way.

I am also just about done with my calcs for placing the projector inside this Ikea table for the stealth look I prefer.

http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?topcategoryId=15564&catalogId=10103&storeId=12&productId=15930&langId=-1&parentCats=15564*15797*15799

I will try and take some photos of the table with the projector sitting on it and my overhang calcs so folks can see if it would fit their needs in their room.

Finally, is there a generic designation (1/8?, etc.) for the plug I would use to get the 12V power out the back of the 51A? I want to use it to run a CPU fan I bought to pull air into the Ikea table. I guess I will assume it is positive on the inner pin but will double check.

Thanks,

M./

I tried your settings above for 7500 and they made a nice improvement to my image. I still have a slight red push in certain shadows but everall the 51A is looking great.

I am designing a manual masking system for my screen and will post pictures and a "howto" for the thread. Guestimate right now is about $50-$70 in materials and setup/takedown of less than 2 minutes each way. M./


If you want to tweak for the red push, try adjusting BB (+) 1 or 2 clicks. I would then adjust BG (-) 1 click for every (+) 2 BB clicks. If you need 3 clicks of BB, also give GB (+) 1 click as this will bring the color geometry back to the center.

If you get a minute, give the 7500 contrast = 95 calibration a whirl. I'd love to know if you see a difference. If you have Sin City, it might be a good candidate because of the dramatic B&W scene dynamics.

I am interested in your DIY masking system.

If you want to tweak for the red push, try adjusting BB (+) 1 or 2 clicks. I would then adjust BG (-) 1 click for every (+) 2 BB clicks. If you need 3 clicks of BB, also give GB (+) 1 click as this will bring the color geometry back to the center.

If you get a minute, give the 7500 contrast = 95 calibration a whirl. I'd love to know if you see a difference. If you have Sin City, it might be a good candidate because of the dramatic B&W scene dynamics.

I am interested in your DIY masking system.

I will try the 7500/95 as your settings I tried last night blew past my best THX/eyeball color settings so I have that memory slot to fool with now. Prior I had some of the custom settings for different tries at colors adjustments.

I am aiming to have 4 custom settings

1) Cinema - current movies (your settings will probably work for this)
2) User 1 - older color movies that need to be bumped up in some way
3) User 2 - current B&W movies, Dead Man as a prime example
4) User 3 - older B&W movies, all the old Noir & Hitchcock etc. The older stuff needs some black compensation vs. newer films and although the shadows start to block up the overall presentation is superior with some enhancement.

I will stop by the local JoAnns today to get the product # for their black velvet. It is not shown on their site but they say you can call and order if it's not shown. Their site has 40% off until the 28th.

I will try and post my CAD drawing for the system. It is based on my trying to continue use of my existing 7 foot diagonal screen since it is mounted and paid for. At 4:3 I get 84 inches and at 16:9 I get 72. A larger screen would completely dominate the room and entail lots of futzing and many $$.

If you have a 16:9 screen to start you can probably just change the sliding panels to be the side units. In my install it will be the top and bottom panels that move.

Thanks again for the settings, my red issue is mostly at the lower right of the image and along the lower portion of the screen so these global settings might not get rid of it completely but I only notice it on B&W films and I may just decide it is too slight to warrant a big effort to get rid of it.

If you want to tweak for the red push, try adjusting BB (+) 1 or 2 clicks. I would then adjust BG (-) 1 click for every (+) 2 BB clicks. If you need 3 clicks of BB, also give GB (+) 1 click as this will bring the color geometry back to the center.

If you get a minute, give the 7500 contrast = 95 calibration a whirl. I'd love to know if you see a difference. If you have Sin City, it might be a good candidate because of the dramatic B&W scene dynamics.

I am interested in your DIY masking system.


I tried your 95/7500 settings and they are better than the 80/7500 on the couple of color movies I looked at. A bit cleaner with better definition and skin tones are very natural. I always keep the oldest setting in a memory so I can do A-Bs of newer settings and it has steadily moved in a good direction using your settings. So perhaps it is that the projectors are actually pretty similar in capability from one unit to another.

As for B&W I think Sin City is too high contrast to see errors (looks great tho'). I have been using the beginning of The Big Sleep as it has a very nice scale of greys. In the opening scene where Carmen Sternwood tries to sit on Philip Marlowe's lap while he's still standing there is now just the smallest amount of red push in just a very narrow band of grey. The narrowness is such that there is almost no splay of red across a series of greys, a part of the image is either in the band of error or it's not and so her sweater has the slighest red cast but there isn't the ragged red in the shadows that I had with the OEM settings. In that scene there used to be some red in Marlowe's suit but it is gone now. When they go into the hot house it also offers a nice sampling of greys to test with.

So I'm hoping that the OPPO might clean that last little bit up. The newer design, better decoding and higher quality input (from component to DVI/HDMI) might just be enough to push the problem into the noise of a normal lifestyle. As it is I really have to work at being concerned as the picture quality for the $$ is just amazing. And so I will only be abe to get myself to put a bit more effort into eradicating it and then I will just say, "that's the way it is" as this price point.

For a modern high quality B&W image to test with I think you will be hard pressed to find a better one than Jim Jarmuschs' Dead Man. It's a great movie to boot.

I will try your BG/BB tweaks above tonight.

Thanks,

M./

I have done some minor checking between 70, 80 & 95 contrast calibrations.

95 seems to provide a more uniform grayscale of white titles fading on a full black background. Contrast 80, and 70 even more so, has the titles shifting slightly red just before the fade to black.

I watched Zathura and Stewart Little 3 with the kids, and I also liked 95 the best. I was looking for and didn't see any negative artifacts using 95, such as any clipping of white highlights.

I'm like you Wyattsdad, I prefer 7500K over 6500K, and on occassion I don't mind 9300K. Zathura was a little better at 9300K because of the over saturation of red & orange in the film. Then when the space fileds scenes come on with the dark blue nebula mist, it feels very 3 dimensional.

I have a couple more films to check, but I'm leaning toward sticking with the 95 contrast calibrations.

I will also try recalibrating with the HOYA FL-Day filter, which should be perfect for the inherent color biasing of the 51A lamp. I'll post those numbers down the road.

I did the work to install my 51A into an Ikea coffee table today and things came out pretty nice. I took photos and would like to attach them to a post but thought I would ask if that's the best route to take as I haven't done that on this forum before.

How many images can I attach to one post? I'd rather not make a slug of posts to get the info up for others to see.

The alternative is for me to put up a web site gallery on my own server and just have a link to that.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

M./

Hi Bytehoven,

Thanks a lot for posting your settings.

I made mine based on yours. I prefer the 7500K and the 9300K values. I tried both your settings but for me it's to much red. Finally I tried a combination of 80 contrast and 95 contrast settings for a contrast of 85-87. Bingo, it's wonderful.:)
I use a PC with DVI/HDMI connection.

My settings are :

contrast = 86
brightness = 55-65 (depending on movies)
color = 50
hue = 50
Gamma 2
IRIS Auto (Iris Open Reg : 40, Iris Close Reg : 200)
Low Lamp

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......100...........100..........100
GG........28............32.............32
BG.........27...........39.............53
RB.......121.........121............117
GB.......130.........129............127
BB........136.........136...........134


Original Service Menu Values
.......high...mid....low
RG...128...128...128
GG.....49....38.....29
BG.....57....40.....21
RB...117...116...115
GB...128...128...128
BB...135...134...133

Hello to all...newbie here. Just received my 51a and am having difficulty accessing the service(or factory) modes. I follow Bytehoven's procedure(BTW, thanks so much for all of your valuable info), press the up arrow to enter the service mode, verified under Information when I bring up the menu, but....where is it? There's only an S indicating that I'm in but only a bit more info. Where is everything else? Help! Please. :confused:

verified under Information when I bring up the menu, but....where is it? There's only an S indicating that I'm in but only a bit more info. Where is everything else? Help! Please. :confused:
Once you click the menu button, there are boxes on the left which get you into the respective menu areas. In service mode there are the letters WB in yellow at the bottom of those boxes. Click down to the letters and then right arrow gets you into the menus where you can apply the settings posted in this thread.

M./

Hey wyattsdad, thank you. Off to give it a try.

OK... Below are (3) sets of graphs. They were calibrated at master contrasts of 80, 95 and a calibration at 79 with special RGB settings to flatten out the RGB and K values. The result of this last calibration included a loss of some ON/OFF contrast, but the RGB and K performance boost is significant.

I had the highest ON/OFF contrast of 9380:1 with the contrast = 95 calibration at 9300K.

The 2nd two sets of graphs/calibrations were done with the FL-Day filter. I gained a little over 1100:1 ON/OFF contrast using the filter at 6500K. Pretty significant and well worth the effort unless you need a brighter image.

Iris OFF mode measured ON/OFF contrast at 1315:1 with the FL-Day filter in low lamp mode. I did not measure Iris ON mode.

Master Contrast = 80 6960:1 ON/OFF Contrast.
http://www.blanca.com/51A/gamma_C80_6500.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/K_C80_6500.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/rgb_C80_6500.jpg

Master Contrast = 95 8200:1 ON/OFF Contrast with FL-Day Filter. 7077:1 ON/OFF Contrast without filter.
http://www.blanca.com/51A/gamma_C95_6500_FLday.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/K_C95_6500_FLday.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/rgb_C95_6500_FLday.jpg

Special Calibration & Master Contrast = 79 6286:1 ON/OFF Contrast with FL-Day Filter
http://www.blanca.com/51A/gamma_C79_6500_FL.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/K_C79_6500_FL.jpg
http://www.blanca.com/51A/RGB_C79_6500_FL.jpg

The technique used in the final calibration was to find MAX red gain/bias values with a 100 IRE full field pattern at the contrast = 95 setting. Then put up a 85 IRE pattern and take a measurement for Y. Then go back to the 100 IRE pattern and reduce the master contrast from 95 until K was the same value as IRE 85. In my case it was a master contrast = 79. I then calibrated grayscale using only the green & blue. The result, while a bit dimmer and with less ON/OFF contrast, was very effective at producing near perfect RGB and K (color temp) tracking from top to bottom.

I'd like to thanks AVS member Gregg Loewen for suggesting this technique.

I've tried your settings Byte and Like FordValley, I prefer the 7500K and 9300K @ 95 contrast. The 6500K settings are way too red on my HS60.
Does your FL-D filter fit over the PJ lens or screw on ? What size filter are you using ?
I'm considering a pro calibration but the auto iris seems to be a stumbling block over here in the UK.
Thx again for the update.
Rob. :)

I have a 72mm filter from my old days with the HT1000.

Note the 51/50/51A/60 do not have a threaded lens. The best you can do is find a good size that lets you secure the filter with tape.

72mm would be good it you point the filter threads OUT and tape the filter in place, as the outside diameters are almost identical.

71mm would be good it you want to have the filter threads go just inside the projector lens and then secure the filter with tape. This might be the safest option as the the filter theads slightly inside the projector lens might make for a more secure setup.

Regarding my 6500K being too red. IMHO, 6500K is too red. I prefer 7500k. Heck I even prefer 9300K for some material. But as far as it being too red, I must say as compared to what? Don't use the Sony factory LOW color temp as a comparison because it is not 6500k. It comes in about 6900K, or atleast that's what my LOW setting measured.

Here is the info for the group #3 FL-Day setup:

contrast = 79
brightness = 45
color = 50
hue = 50

........6500-FL....7500-FL......9300_FL
RG......105...........104............104
GG.......31.............35..............37
BG.......36.............49..............64
RB......104...........103............103
GB......116...........116............116
BB......117...........117............118

Thx for the info on the filter size. Ref: 'too red', I've always been happy with 6500K calibrations on previous displays ~ RP HDTVs and a NEC 9PG+ CRT PJ, but the HS60 doesn't look natural with your 65K settings. Of course, there is the inevitable differences between individual HS60/51As and an ISF calibration to 65K may look totally different to your settings.
But this is not criticism, I truly appreciate your quest for the best possible image and will try any future settings you post.
Cheers, Rob. :)

Sorry, and I didn't mean to come off as being defensive. :D

I agree there is a very good chance our projectors differ because of the nature of the LCD panel uniformity.

It seems one of the best things you can do with the 51A/60, and probably the 51/50 as well, is to find where RED just begins to run out. Then calibrate so red is just begining to run out at 100 IRE. This makes for a much flatter grayscale. The factory calibration and many calibrations settings I have seen posted and posted myself, have RED begining to run out anywhere from 80-95 IRE. The farther you drop below 100 IRE as the RED pivot point, the greater the deviations of color temp and RGB tracking along the grayscale spectrum.

It's a shame you can't find the RED/100 IRE sweet spot, calibrate and then increase master contrast as desired. However, color tracking begins shifting with the very 1st (+) click of contrast and gets worse the farther you go.

I have been advised to remeasure for ON/OFF contrast, repositioning my probe closer to the projector so my 7.5 IRE reading is at least (0.1). I'll alter my previous post accordingly should I find different ON/OFF contrast numbers.

Sorry, and I didn't mean to come off as being defensive. :D

I agree there is a very good chance our projectors differ because of the nature of the LCD panel uniformity.

I would think that there would be at least a +/- 1% issue in production of a device this complicated and at this price. That means there could easily be 2-3% diviations here and there in the field.


It seems one of the best things you can do with the 51A/60, and probably the 51/50 as well, is to find where RED just begins to run out. Then calibrate so red is just begining to run out at 100 IRE. This makes for a much flatter grayscale. The factory calibration and many calibrations settings I have seen posted and posted myself, have RED begining to run out anywhere from 80-95 IRE. The farther you drop below 100 IRE as the RED pivot point, the greater the deviations of color temp and RGB tracking along the grayscale spectrum.

My understanding of monitor calibrations (which I have been doing on and off for about 10 years) is that the software measures the output of the 3 primaries, finds the one with the lowest output (since it can't be turned UP) and then scales back the others to match. If you think about it, it would have to take the lowest point in the output of the weakest color and then scale the other points in the weakest color back to match that lowest point to bring about a smooth greyscale and then match the 2 other colors to that. That is why a calibrated monitor is always dimmer in output to a non-calibrated unit.

I think your approach is following the same paradigm using a manual technique.


It's a shame you can't find the RED/100 IRE sweet spot, calibrate and then increase master contrast as desired. However, color tracking begins shifting with the very 1st (+) click of contrast and gets worse the farther you go.

I guess I have to assume you are making these adjustments in the Factory menus? or are you bringing about the improvements above using the white balance settings?


I have been advised to remeasure for ON/OFF contrast, repositioning my probe closer to the projector so my 7.5 IRE reading is at least (0.1). I'll alter my previous post accordingly should I find different ON/OFF contrast numbers.

I did find that your 95 contrast setting was "punchy" for color images but blew out the highs completely on some B&W films. 80-90 is a better ballpark to shoot for unless folks are thinking of making changes to each film. But maybe that's the best approach. I never used it with my old Novabeam because I didn't have the controls and memories to work with.

M./

I have been inputting different settings posted here by Bytehoven and others and getting a bit better image here and there. But I still had problems with B&W movies. Frankly my old Novabeam was much more even in it's greys on B&W.

So, I decided to try the obvious . . .

which was to turn the color& hue to minimum since I don't need either for B&W

and of course . . . .

things got much better!

I now still have the mistracking across the image in the same places I had before but my guestimate is that the error is now in the 1% range. Just barely perceptible in certain greys and only perceptible because it mistracks red/green in different areas. A scene with all lighter greys is pretty much dead on the money. If it was all off 1% into the same color I would not notice it at all.

I will note the WP settings I have etc. and post them tomorrow. I fooled around quite a bit last night and did come up with what I felt was the best compromise but will double-check them tonight on a couple of different movies.

M./

I guess I have to assume you are making these adjustments in the Factory menus? or are you bringing about the improvements above using the white balance settings? M./

Yes, I'm using the W/B RGB gain/bias controls in the service menu. I find it's much easier to keep track of what I'm doing this way, rather than dealing with OFFSETs in the main user white balance menu.

I hope to post non-FL-day filter calibration for the new calibration tweak. You might give those a whirl with your B&W movie material to see if it helps.

However, I think part of what you are seeing is gama shading errors which good W/B
calibration can help minimize but can not eliminate.

I starting to wish the service menu had a couple of dozen color temp registers as it would make it easier to flip around while trying various calibration approaches.

Hi, I have been following this interesting thread and decided to go for a Sony HS60 projector for my home theater set-up. When powering up the projector, I noticed about 3 to 4 pixels on the intro screen which are of a darker blue shade than the other pixels. When I watch some movies, this blue shading in the same 3-4 pixels are not noticeable except when during a bright or white background scene, I could see the blue shading from those 3-4 pixels. Do I have a problem with dead pixels? or misconvergence? I am not familiar with projectors as this is my first one.

I would appreciate any helpful advice. Thanks.

Here is a link to my .xls calibration data file.

I have provided a few ON/OFF contrast measurements.

If you want to try using your Color Temp OFFSETS menu instead of the Factory mode RGB controls, simply subtract the FACTORY HIGH, MID & LOW RGB settings from the particular column with the same color temp.

Enjoy and let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.blanca.com/51A/RJ%2051A%20Calibration%20SpreadSheet.xls

*** Please Note ***

I have posted alot of settings and they might be a little confusing. I went through the process of approaching the 51A calibration from many angles, and it's reflected in my spreadsheet.

You will note they are laid out in sets, with the groupings being 9300/7500/6500 at each calibration approach.

The best Gamma tracking were with sets G-H-I & J-K-L -w- FLD. They were also the brightess and best on/off contrast respectively.

The best RGB & color temp tracking were R-Q-P & O-N-M -w- FLD because of the special RGB tweaks.

I suggest picking a color temp from each of the sets and find which looks best, then use that set for 9300/7500/6500. If you have a screen size of 92" or smaller, the FL-Day filter calibrations really help on/off contrast.

Excellent spreadsheet Byte. Much easier to follow the progression of adjustments.
I'm now looking for a F-LD filter, I don't mind losing some brightness in exchange for more contrast with a lower black level.
Cheers, Rob. :)

Hi Bytehoven,

Can you explain the low 100 IRE Y.fl V W X levels, please?

Cheers,

Muzz

Excellent tips, Bytehoven! Great work!

I’ve only had time to try your first posted settings, which I did last weekend. Although the image seemed a bit on the red side to me at first (lower temps), especially when comparing to my HS60’s factory defaults, after some movie watching and some comparison with the defaults and my own settings (which were done “by eye”), your settings definitely give better depth, color saturation and much more natural skin tones. I’m leaning towards the 7500K and 9300K settings, as they appear to be more natural.

I’ll try your new settings as soon as I have the time and will post my opinions then.

Thanks a lot for your calibration tips, they have been very useful!

Dave.

PS - BTW, I suppose you don’t have any news or new tips on the gamma shading problem? This is my only gripe with my HS60. I found out that I notice it even on color movies, as the colors are warmer (red-biased) on the left side of the screen. It’s also visible on subtitles. I was going to try to minimize these shading errors by eye, but as the gamma levels on the service menu now appear as green-biased, I’m finding it near impossible to see where the shading errors are, so I really don’t know where to start… :(

PS - BTW, I suppose you don’t have any news or new tips on the gamma shading problem? (

I have an email out to Sony regarding the gamma shading issue. I have asked about what could possibly be done, including a possible service visit. I would want to be sure any service adjustment would definitely make an improvement. So stay tuned.

PS: I have yet to hear a solution to the color temp shift when accessing the gamma shading.

Hi Bytehoven,

Can you explain the low 100 IRE Y.fl V W X levels, please?

Cheers,

Muzz

Yes. In order to get reliable ON/OFF contrast readings on some of the calibration groupings, I had to reposition the probe closer to the projector to get higher 7.5 IRE readings. As a result, a comparison can not be made from one grouping to the next regarding the 100 IRE value.

At some point I could add a row to the spread sheet stating the Y value at 100 IRE using the same probe location. These values would then have a proper relationship to each other. :p

I have an email out to Sony regarding the gamma shading issue. I have asked about what could possibly be done, including a possible service visit. I would want to be sure any service adjustment would definitely make an improvement. So stay tuned.

PS: I have yet to hear a solution to the color temp shift when accessing the gamma shading.

Ok. Let's hope there's an easy procedure to correct the gamma shading. This problem is a bit frustrating, as the machine seems to be perfectly capable of projecting a correct image, if only the settings came correct from the factory. It feels so close, yet so far...

Thanks for answering.

Dave.

originally posted by DaveHT
I suppose you don’t have any news or new tips on the gamma shading problem? This is my only gripe with my HS60. I found out that I notice it even on color movies, as the colors are warmer (red-biased) on the left side of the screen. It’s also visible on subtitles. I was going to try to minimize these shading errors by eye, but as the gamma levels on the service menu now appear as green-biased, I’m finding it near impossible to see where the shading errors are, so I really don’t know where to start…

Couldn’t agree more Dave. As we’ve discussed before:

I find the shading problem the only substantial drawback to this projector. It is all the more frustrating, because based on the information from this forum, Sony is miscalibrating the shading in a very consistent manner, with the same sides of each projector being red and blue/green. This indicates that there must be something wrong with their calibration equipment.

I’ve done quite a bit of adjustment and made substantial improvements. It is tedious and made more difficult by the green gamma screens, but with Byte’s “on/off” switch, it is now a much easier process. I use gray fields from Avia. (The gamma fields are useless). While viewing a gray field, toggle the on/off switch back and forth. If you have shading issues at that IRE level, the locations will be obvious. You can then go to the corresponding gamma level screen and make corrections. As far as I know, the factory does not make any adjustments for levels 0, 1, and 11, so it may be best to leave these alone. FWIW: I experimented with major changes to level 1 and could detect no change in my image at all. Also I believe that on the 50/51 all the individual gamma points have green at 0 with any adjustments being to red and blue, so I have always left green alone and made my changes to red. This may be different on the 60/51A. Please report if it is.

Pip

I’ve done quite a bit of adjustment and made substantial improvements. It is tedious and made more difficult by the green gamma screens, but with Byte’s “on/off” switch, it is now a much easier process. I use gray fields from Avia. (The gamma fields are useless). While viewing a gray field, toggle the on/off switch back and forth. If you have shading issues at that IRE level, the locations will be obvious. You can then go to the corresponding gamma level screen and make corrections. As far as I know, the factory does not make any adjustments for levels 0, 1, and 11, so it may be best to leave these alone. FWIW: I experimented with major changes to level 1 and could detect no change in my image at all. Also I believe that on the 50/51 all the individual gamma points have green at 0 with any adjustments being to red and blue, so I have always left green alone and made my changes to red. This may be different on the 60/51A. Please report if it is.

Pip

Is your projector ceiling mounted? I ask because my red issue is worse on the right and mine is on a table. If all the shading errors are consistent (red on the right, green on the left etc.) I may have figured out what is going on. If the errors are random then my theory is not valid.


Also, is there a post somewhere that described or covers the adjustments of the levels 0-11 you refer to above? Are they in the factory menu area?

Thanks,

M./

Is your projector ceiling mounted? I ask because my red issue is worse on the right and mine is on a table. If all the shading errors are consistent (red on the right, green on the left etc.) I may have figured out what is going on. If the errors are random then my theory is not valid.


Also, is there a post somewhere that described or covers the adjustments of the levels 0-11 you refer to above? Are they in the factory menu area?

Thanks,

M./

I have my 51A in a table top mode on a shelf behind my main couch. My bias is red in the upper left corner and blue in the lower right. We seem to have opposite gamma shading issues. :)

The service manul does not go into gamma shading at all.

As I understand the process used by some 3rd party folks like WM, you place a sensor over the lens which can see the entire panel and breaks it up into quadrants. These quadrants correspond to the available adjustment points of the gamma shading service menu controls. The software to calibrate is then automated so the calibration process can be done in less than a half hour.

In order to do it manually, you would need to locate the calibration probe right at the screen as indicated by the gamma shading curser. Then switch in/out of gamma shading as suggested as you make adjustments. I have not even thought about trying to do this.

Making manual gamma shading adjustments by eye could be good enough, but they would not be very accurate. I figure it could take a couple of hours to run through patterns from 20-100 IRE making manual adjustmenst by eye.

It would have to take much longer to work with a calibration probe. Maybe an assistant assigned to loacting the probe could speed things up. This assistant could also fetch brews. ;)

It might be possible to dial in let's say 50 IRE and then apply those settings to the other levels, assuming the color bias is relatively uniform as you move thru the luminance range.

It would be great if we could share gamma shading offsets, but it appears our projectors are unique.

I have my 51A in a table top mode on a shelf behind my main couch. My bias is red in the upper left corner and blue in the lower right. We seem to have opposite gamma shading issues. :)
It would be great if we could share gamma shading offsets, but it appears our projectors are unique.
Yes, our problems are the opposite of each other. My screen is very slightly green on the left, dead accurate in the middle and slightly red in the lower right. These problems are only in the darker shades. In a scene with predominantly mid-tones the image is outstanding in every way.
I had a good friend over last night to watch a recently issued classic Noir and because I was focussed on the story and not looking for calibration issues I was not bothered in the least by the shading errors. This is even though I had watched it a few times this last week and had been using it as my B&W film to evaluate the errors. So mindset is a good portion of the problem; i.e. looking for errors = you find some, watching a movie = you may not notice them.

So my current best recommendation for an overall B&W film to use for B&W evals is "Nightmare Alley" an outstanding disc in every way. The print for the transfer looks to be a new issue, the photography is great, the performances are great and the story is one of the best ever.

As for the errors I do not notice them at all on color imagery only on B&W. I use one of your settings posted about a week ago and have the color and hue at min. I have just the very slightest shading issues. I am going to try your latest spreadsheet settings with the Hoya filter to see if they make things any better. The tripod adapter for my Spyder just came yesterday and I paid for the GetGrey download and so I may fool with it a bit more but as it is now, the 51A is a fine projector.

Also hoping to get some photos of the coffee table install up this weekend. I have to get the cooling fan installed and then I am about done with that part of the project. The black velvet I got off Ebay came yesterday and I was finally able to come up with a masking system design I like. I will be working on that this weekend also.

Finally, what is the change that the Hoya filter will bring about? A uniform reduction in light output? A shift in color temp? I'm not clear on that since it is always shown with a slight pink tint to the filter on the web pages where I have looked.

Thanks,

M./

originally posted by wyattsdad
Is your projector ceiling mounted? I ask because my red issue is worse on the right and mine is on a table. If all the shading errors are consistent (red on the right, green on the left etc.) I may have figured out what is going on. If the errors are random then my theory is not valid.

Also, is there a post somewhere that described or covers the adjustments of the levels 0-11 you refer to above? Are they in the factory menu area?

My 51 is ceiling mounted, so it has the red vs. blue/green shifts on the same sides as Byte's unit. If memory serves, excepting your unit, all the reports and photos on the forum have shown the color shifts on these sides. I have viewed five HS51 units, and they have all had the red shift on the same side. But there really have been too few reports on the forum to constitute a sufficient niumber of samples. I wish we had more information.

Yes - the gamma shading adjustments are in the factory menu under gamma.

originally posted by Bytehoven
Making manual gamma shading adjustments by eye could be good enough, but they would not be very accurate. I figure it could take a couple of hours to run through patterns from 20-100 IRE making manual adjustmenst by eye....

It might be possible to dial in let's say 50 IRE and then apply those settings to the other levels, assuming the color bias is relatively uniform as you move thru the luminance range.

Adjusting by eye is very tedious and I'm sure not very accurate, but it has made a substantial improvement on my unit.

Unfortunately, on my unit the color shifts are not at all uniform through the luminance range, with the worst factory settings having been in the 20 - 30 IRE range, and again in the 50 - 60 range.

Pip

Unfortunately, on my unit the color shifts are not at all uniform through the luminance range, with the worst factory settings having been in the 20 - 30 IRE range, and again in the 50 - 60 range. Pip

You might note those alternate luminance range values and how they compare to other levels. I noted on my 51 how the bias problems were directly related to the factory gamma shading settings, which were all over tha map when comparing one level to another.

I am suggesting that maybe these different observations at different luminance ranges are related to the different incorrect values of the factory gamma settings.

Could the corrected values used on one luminance level be used on others, even though the other luminance levels appear to be different, because the difference is due to non-uniform factory gamma shading from level to level?

It might be worth a try to just pull in the good values and see what happens.

... what is the change that the Hoya filter will bring about? A uniform reduction in light output? A shift in color temp? I'm not clear on that since it is always shown with a slight pink tint to the filter on the web pages where I have looked. M./

A colored filter extends the range of the weak color inherent in the lamp to allow the levels of the other colors to be raised in value.

The lamp in the 51A, and many other projectors, runs out of red 1st. So the FL-Day filter is the one to use to help extend red so green/blue can be increased in value.

Other projectors like the Ruby, have a lamp which runs out of blue 1st, so a cyan filter might be in order to achieve a similar red/green value boost.

While there is a uniform reduction in light output, calibration with the filter should allow for a slightly darker BLACK 7.5 IRE, while providing a slightly bright WHITE 100 IRE because red/green/blue are working at higher levels. So the apparent reduction in light output is really more on the darks than on the whites, and thus the expanded on/off contrast.

A perfectly tuned filter, which would allow RGB to be set to equal maximum values, might provide the maximum contrast range possible. Of course, because the color characteristics of the lamp changes over time, this super filter would also need to change.

Byte:

Now I get you. That's an interesting idea. I'll take a look at my factory gamma values and report back.

Thanks,
Pip

Looking at the pictures from the report on the HS60 at cine4home.de, the high contrast plates appear to be filters of some sort, with additional red on red, blue on blue and neutral density on the green light path. Does this mean that we don't really need additional filters?

OK...

Once you make your way into the service menu, pull up the main menu and look for W/B at the bottom. Inside you will see High, Mid, Low, Custom 1, Custom 2 & Custom 3. I suggest changing one of the Custom menus until you're sure you like the new settings. Note at the bottom the SAVE SETTINGS option. You will want to use that when you're done. Also note, you may have to go back to the USER menu to reset to the color temp you have elected to change. You should also note factory settings for Custom 1, 2 & 3 are equal to high, mid & low respectively.

When you click on Custom 1, the 1st of two available screens will come up. This 1st screen is for RGB GAIN settings and the 2nd screen comes up as you work down past Blue Gain. The 2nd screen is RGB Bias.

The 1st group of calibrations are for:

contrast = 80
brightness = 45
color = 50
hue = 50
Gamma 2
IRIS Auto
Low Lamp

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......132...........132..........132
GG........28............32.............33
BG.........27...........39.............54
RB.......121.........121............117
GB.......130.........129............127
BB........136.........136...........134

The following are for Contrast = 95, the other main controls are the same.

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......104...........105...........105
GG.......12..............16............17
BG.......14..............27............40
RB......103...........105..........104
GB......117...........122..........121
BB......123...........125..........124

Give these babies a whirl and post your thoughts.
I am running my HS51a with a Stewart Filmscreen Grayhawk in a light controlled environment, do you have any suggestions for factory/service menu tweaks? Do you know how your settings may enhance or possibly help overall brightness without sacrificing black level.

Thank you in advance
Julian

I am running my HS51a with a Stewart Filmscreen Grayhawk in a light controlled environment, do you have any suggestions for factory/service menu tweaks? Do you know how your settings may enhance or possibly help overall brightness without sacrificing black level.

Thank you in advance
Julian

Stewart is very good regarding minimal color temp shift with their screens. You should be able to try my settings and then just dial in your brightness for proper black level and detail.

Thanks

Bytehoven, concerning this post on a Ruby thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7293816&&#post7293816


Is there a similar tweak for the HS51? My biggest complaint with it is low brightness.

Thanks.

Craig
51/50 & 51A/60, Yes.

Under the OTHER menu you will find:

Open Reg = usually set in the (40) range
Close Reg = usually set in the (215-225) range

I have set my Open Reg to (0), which really brightens up the image. On the 51, I was able to lower Close Reg to (205) before it impacted my blacks, raising them as I went below (205). On the 51A, I find I need to keep it at the factory of (225) or I get bright corners on full black screens. As the lamp begins to dim, I will see if I can lower the Close Reg accordingly.

So Far, I have not noticed any image artifacts from lowering the Open Reg to (0). My various calibrated RGB gain/bias settings over in the HS-51A/60 threads were all with the (0) & (225) settings.

I have some questions for you...

First, if I understood correctly, the Ruby brightness tweak is for lowering the Close Reg, not the Open Reg. Of course, at least in the HS5xx/60, if we lower the close reg to very low values (in the Ruby case, they’re lowering it to less than the open reg, which seems weird), we will have an overall much brighter picture in darker scenes, but the black level on those darker scenes will be much higher also (grey), and the dynamic contrast will be much reduced, because the iris will not close as much… Or am I missing something here?

Second question, concerning your tweak for the HS5xx/60 on the Open Reg (which appears to make much more sense, at least for me), I haven’t tried yet to change the open reg, as this value seems to be more or less the same with different units (which is not true for the close reg), so I thought it may have a reason to be this way. I suspected that, like you found out, lowering this value would make the image brighter. My question is, can this tweak have any long-term negative impact on the projector, like iris mechanics (wider opening)? Or maybe I’m just being paranoid? :)

Anyway, that tweak of the open reg seems generally such a good idea that I find it strange that the factory defaults aren’t like that (and usually there are no free lunches)... :rolleyes:

Dave.

Is the 51a's lens threaded to accept a filter (or, as in my case, an IMX lens)?

Hi there.

I didn't get an answer for my questions, but I've done some investigations myself.

On the Open reg tweak, I didn't notice any difference in brightness. If it exists, it should be minimal. This probably puts an end to my question on how this could eventually stress the iris mechanism, as it doesn't seem to make it open more, anyway.

On other thing, I said before that Bytehoven's settings appear a bit too red on my HS60 unit. Well, I've tried his factory default settings and they also are much more red than my unit's defaults. This probably means that Bytehoven's unit lamp has less red than my unit or the panels have different gains, so it was factory calibrated with different settings. I've tried using the difference between Byte's factory defaults and the new values and used them as "relative" settings on the user presets without going to the svc menu. This gave a much better picture. However, each projector will probably have different optimal calibration values, and Bytehoven's settings should be much better on his own unit. Nevertheless, maybe his values provide a better starting point for tweaking... Myself, I like them more than the factory settings, so it is worth it to give it a try.

One final note, I tried some of the contrast=95 settings, and they indeed gave better color tracking as the iris changes, but I noticed a visible loss in shadow detail, so I had to increase brightness a bit to see that detail again. I'm not yet decided, but I still think I prefer the contrast=80 settings, as they seem more natural...

Cheers,
Dave.

I posted this in the ruby thread but really should go here. If you want a BIG improvement in light output so you image is brighter than with iris off set open reg and close reg to the same value and watch what happens. Doesn't matter which one you change just make them the same and those that see very little improvement just changing the open reg will see a verry big difference.

In case anyone might find this useful, here is my complete set of factory and setup menu settings (the default untweaked settings)...the format is setting number, name of setting, setting value, comma. Ommitted settings had no default value.

Service Menu:
.....High...Med...Low
RG.128....128...128
GG..48.....44.....36
BG..70.....59.....34
RB.117....121...120
GB.128....128...128
BB.132....132...136

Factory Menu:

A/D Converter
01 ADC Clamp Converter-0, 02 ADC/Clamp Width-0, 03 ADC/R Gain-78, 04 ADC/G Gain-74, 05 ADC/B Gain-78, 06 ADC/R Offset-138, 07 ADC/G Offset-89, 08 ADC/B Offset-130, 09 ADC/Pre Coast-2, 10 ADC/Post Coast-8, 11 ADC/Bandwidth-3, 12 SS/SonG Bias Current-1, 13 SS/SonG Hysterisis-1, 14 SS/SonG Thresh-1, 15 SS/Video Pos Thresh-1, 16 SS/video Bias Current-1, 17 SS/Video Hysterisis-1, 18 SS/Video Thresh-1, 19 SS/VS Pol Gain-0, 20 SS/HS Pol Gain-0, 21SS/Back VS Pol Gain-0, 22 SS/Back HS Pol Gain-0, 23 SS/VS Sep Sens-0

Chroma/D.Comb:
01 Chroma/Ch1 Gain-31, 02 Chroma/Ch2 Gain-40, 09 Chroma/LCBW-6, 15 Chroma/Ch3 Gain-40, 16 Chroma/Ch4 Gain-40, 27 Chroma/AOSL-1, 28 Chroma/Status 1-64, 29 Chroma/Status 2-64

Panel Driver
01 P.Drv/Offset R-116, 02 P.Drv/Offset G-116, 03 P.Drv/Offset B-116, 04 P.Drv/V Common R-80, 05 P.Drv/V Common G-82, 06 P.Drv/V Common B-78, 10 P.Drv/Psig 1 R-16, 11 P.Drv/Psig 1 G-16, 12 P.Drv/Psig 1 B-16, 13 P.Drv/Psig 2 R-86, 14 P.Drv/Psig 2 G-86, 15 P.Drv/Psig 2 B-86, 16 Pp.Drv/Signal Center R-31, 17 P.Drv/Signal Center G-31, 18 P.Drv/Signal Center B-31, 19 P.Drv/Gain R-158, 20 P.Drv/Gain G-158, 21 P.Drv/Gain B-158, 22 P.Drv/GDCFB Auto-0, 39 SH/SH1-22, 41 Other/Installation-1

Display Engine:
01 DE/Sub Cont-0, 02 DE/Sub Brt-0, 03 DE/LUT Through-0, 04 DE/UF SW-1, 05 DE/APC Thres-7, 11 TG/HST Position-7, 12 TG/HST Phase-116, 14 TG/Drift On-0, 15 TG/HPC R-461, 16 TG/HPC G-461, 17 TG/HPC B-461, 18 TG/R HPC Data 0-463, 19 TG/G HPC Data 0-463, 20 TG/B HPC Data 0-463, 21 TG/R HPC Data 1-463, 22 TG/G HPC Data 1-463, 23 TG/B HPC Data 1-463, 24 DE/USC On-1, 25 DE/HPF On-1, 26 DE/HPF TAP-2, 27 DE/HPF AAC-1, 28 DE/UGM DRC On-0, 29 DE/UGM Sub Gain-96, 30 DE/UGM Sub Bias-0, 313 DE/RCP CSC Off-1, 32 DE/UGM On R-1, 33 DE/UGM On G-1, 34 DE/UGM On B-1, 35 DE/USC Limit On-0, 36 DE/USC Limit R-4095, 37 DE/USC Limit G-4095, 38 DE/USC Limit B-4095, 39 DE/RCP Hue Through-1, 40 DE/RCP Gamma R On-0, 41 DE/RCP Gamma G On-0, 42 DE/RCP Gamma B On-0, 43 CSC/CSC Mode-0

Other:
18 Other/Synchronous-1, 24 Other/Temp Lamp-692, 25 Other/Temp Panel-601, 26 Other/Temp Atomos-377, 34 Iris/Iris Adj-0, 35 Iris/Open Reg-40, 36 Iris/Close Reg-224, 37 Iris/Open Hall-920, 38 Iris/Close Hall-920

Gamma:
Level-0
Position-1
R-0
G-0
B-0

I/P:
01 Ip/CTI Tap-3, 02 Ip/CTI Shift-1, 03 Ip/CTI Limit-128, 04 Ip/CTI Gain-20, 05 Ip/Sharp Limit-255, 06 Ip/MD Thresh C-8, 07 Ip/MD Thresh 0-16, 08 Ip/VS-1, 09 Ip/Continue-1, 10 Ip/Edit Detect-0, 11 Ip/Indicator-0, 12 Ip/Manual-0, 13 Ip/Manual Pair-0, 14 Ip/Manual State-0, 15 Ip/Field Times-2, 16 Ip/Noise Thresh-4, 17 Ip/Disp Area-0, 18 Ip/VS Limit-64, 19 Ip/VS Core-4, 20 Ip/Hysterisis-1, 21 Ip/Hysterisis Data-2, 22 Ip/22 Pre Post Rate-15, 23 Ip/22 Pre Post Thresh-2, 24 Ip/Film Times 22-3, 25 Ip/YNR On-0, 26 Ip/CNR On-0, 27 Ip2/Sudare Rate 32-4, 28 Ip2/Sudare Thresh 32-64, 29 Ip2/Sudare Rate 22-4, 30 Ip2/Sudare Thresh 22-40, 31 Ip2/UV PhaseSel-0

On the Open reg tweak, I didn't notice any difference in brightness. If it exists, it should be minimal. This probably puts an end to my question on how this could eventually stress the iris mechanism, as it doesn't seem to make it open more, anyway.

On other thing, I said before that Bytehoven's settings appear a bit too red on my HS60 unit. Well, I've tried his factory default settings and they also are much more red than my unit's defaults..

Great points Dave....

1) I notice the most brightness impact with the Open Reg = (0), when viewing a bright scene which is weighted with a good deal of dark information, or on bright scenes with less than 100% luminance values. For sinatce, an 80%/IRE field is brighter under the tweak, revealing the boost is being applied to luminance values below 100%. I also noted over in the Ruby forum, this tweak does not cause the IRIS to open any wider, only to open to FULL at a lower average scene value.

2) That's a great observation and recommendation I perhaps did not suggest strongly enough. I included my FACTORY RGB gain/bias settings in my spread sheet. They could be subtracted from my calibrated settings, and then the values can be used to tweak either the FACTORY W/B menu or user color temp menu. Thanks for pointing that out as that is probably the best way to apply my calibration suggestions.

I posted this in the ruby thread but really should go here. If you want a BIG improvement in light output so you image is brighter than with iris off set open reg and close reg to the same value and watch what happens. Doesn't matter which one you change just make them the same and those that see very little improvement just changing the open reg will see a verry big difference.


Hmmm...

Could you say what your settings are?

IRIS OPEN REG = ?
IRIS CLOSE REG = ?

I have...
IRIS OPEN REG = (0)
IRIS CLOSE REG = (225)

If I lower CLOSE REG below 225, I begin to see bright corners on full black out scenes. As I go below 215 the black level actually starts to increase, get brighter. I should note, the bright corners observation I have noted, may disappear after the lamp dims a little , just as it has done on the Roby. The bright corners artifact appears to be caused by excessive light scatter when the IRIS is less than fully closed. I see bright corners when the IRIS is set to ON, and there is no way to eliminate it. I understand when the IRIS is set to ON, the IRIS does not close as fully as it does under Auto IRIS and I have found no factory adjustment so far. But again, this artifact may disappear as the lamp ages.

If I increase OPEN REG from (0), I have to go above (40) before a 100% test screen starts to dim. However, 90%, 80% and lower test patterns begin to dimm much sooner.

Setting both controls to the same number does not work for me, but I might try yourvalues if you post them.

I had worried running the OPEN REG at (0) might cause a whacking gamma, but I have excellent gamma tracking except for the light bump in the 10-40 IRE range.

Bytehoven, with your Iris tweak setting, does it actually make the auto-iris brighter than iris off? Or just better brightness when using the auto-iris?

Can you mess with the panel driver options to adjust convergence?

Bytehoven,

I have the hs50 not a HS60 / US HS51a. Not to sure what my settings are but didn't seem to matter last night when playing. If a set both to 0 i get the bright picture. If i set both to 225 i get the bright picture. If i set the close reg value higher then the close reg it also did the same thing. How I discovered this was the following way. I did not notice any improvement it the iris open reg when changing from 40 to 0 so I decided to see what happened when I set it higher than 40 and eventually it got to a point where it just went click and then image was suddenly brighter than with iriss off. I had a look and I had got the setting higher than iris close reg number. I flicked the number back to the point where I heard the irsi click and the image went duller and it was when both numbers were the same value.

Would be nice if someone else could reproduce the settings. Might have to post in the HS50 thread not the 60/51a

Has anyone been able to reduce vertical banding? I've been noticing it more and more on bright scenes on my hs-60

Bytehoven, with your Iris tweak setting, does it actually make the auto-iris brighter than iris off? Or just better brightness when using the auto-iris?

Not brighter, but just as bright while preserving the AUTO Iris benefits on dark black reproduction.

I was noticing a slightly brighter shift when I was switching between AUTO and OFF.

I had tinkered with the CLOSE REG control on the HS-51, but never the OPEN. So, I tried moving the OPEN REG setting in both directions. Raising the value gradually dimmed the image on the bright end. Lowering the value, gradually brightened the image of bright scenes which were other than full screen 100% video levels.

I had originally intended to start with the lowest setting of (0) and increase it back toward the factory setting of (40) if I saw side effects. However, I have not noticed any adverse effects of lowering OPEN REG to (0).

I'm sure there might be some effects I have over looked. My main concern was what the change might do to grayscale and gamma tracking, but that concern was unfounded. If anything, I suspect the gamma tracking on 50-100% video is more natural because of forcing the IRIS to full open state at lower luminance levels.

Can you mess with the panel driver options to adjust convergence?

So far I have seen nothing in the Panel Driver menu which allows for convergence tweaks.

I should note someone on the Ruby threads explained a service procedure for convergence error on the Ruby. This procedure was said to include an electronic tweak that was performed by the Laredo Service site.

So far, no additional info of such an electronic convergence capability has been verified, but it being investigated.

Bytehoven,

How I discovered this was the following way. I did not notice any improvement it the iris open reg when changing from 40 to 0 so I decided to see what happened when I set it higher than 40 and eventually it got to a point where it just went click and then image was suddenly brighter than with iriss off.

I know what you are talking about now. I have experienced that exact occurance.

I assumed it was a forced error due to the two values reaching a point beyond their logical operating range compared to the other. Know what I mean? I didn't explore it any further.

Are you saying this forced open iris state reproduces a brighter 100% video signal than when the Iris is set to OFF?

How is black reproduction effected?

Do you notice any odd iris behavior on mid to bright scenes?

Has anyone been able to reduce vertical banding? I've been noticing it more and more on bright scenes on my hs-60

No vertical banding here.

Can you mention some films which demonstrate the problem?

I have heard this is an uncommon and projector specific issue.

Is this possibly a PAL issue?

Maybe you could give some specifics on your signal path to the HS-60.

I have no idea I only played around with it for about 20 mins when reading the ruby adjustment. I think that it may have completely disabled the iris function. I don't have any calibrations tools so I am not able to check light levels and gamma tracking etc etc. But yes if you have a bright white screen say like the white screen of greys anatomy at the start of the show. If you flick between a user setting with iris off, iris off with lamp high and the forced iris open auto iris the auto iris srtting is the brightest of the bunch. Black levels may have been hindered but with the extra brightness you may be able to set say black enhance to low to overcome. It may just end up being a setting you can use in place of iris off lamp high for sport etc etc. Again I have not played with it and checked calibration settings gamma tracking or contrast ratios it was just whoo what happened there.

I posted this in the ruby thread but really should go here. If you want a BIG improvement in light output so you image is brighter than with iris off set open reg and close reg to the same value and watch what happens. Doesn't matter which one you change just make them the same and those that see very little improvement just changing the open reg will see a verry big difference.

Yes, I had seen your post. I tried that trick last night and I saw the effect you mentioned. At first, it seemed that the whole image got brighter, but after some tests I found out that it seemed to up the low IRE's only. Maybe this effect is caused by a dynamic gamma adjustment that is active when the iris is set to auto. I didn't have time to do a better investigation on this "trick".

Dave.

Has anyone been able to reduce vertical banding? I've been noticing it more and more on bright scenes on my hs-60

Unfortunately, I feel the same thing with my hs60. However, I don't know if my unit's VB is actually getting worse, or just that maybe I'm paying more attention to it (most likely). :rolleyes:

The VB appears to be mostly, if not all, on the green panel. On any movie with a solid green or yellow-ish scenes, like a desert scene, it's more or less visible. It's also visible (a bit less) on white-fog or smoke scenes. My previous HS50 also had the same type of VB I have now, but at least when I exchanged it with the HS60, I was sure that VB was less on my new unit.

Yesterday I saw a "making-of" feature of "final destination 2", where they show some scenes with "chroma key" effects using green panels in the background. The VB was clearly visible on these green panels. Also, as I have an HTPC, I can put a solid green background easily (or any other color), and the VB is easily seen that way. Fortunately, on most movies the VB is not visible at all, and when I see it, it's usually minimal and only on some scenes.

VB and shading are my only complaints on the HSxx series. Shading could be corrected, as that seems to be just Sony's fault because of a poor factory calibration. Concerning VB, I'm not sure what could/can be done.

I found out some settings on the svc menu that affect VB, in the "panel driver" section. If you increase the green panel offset to a high level, VB will vanish, but you'll also get a very green-biased picture (of course). Also, if you increase "v common" for green you'll also see VB disappear, but then you'll see a pronounced scanline effect and, again, a green-biased picture (I used this setting to get rid of a scanline effect I had with both the HS50 and the 60, btw). So, for now, I don't know the solution (if it exists) to the green panel's VB. I may investigate this a bit more when I have the time, trying different refresh rates and inputs to see if it has any effect on VB. I already tried one of the tricks that is used with panasonic pjs, that is to leave the unit disconnected from the mains supply (instead of stand by), but I didn't notice any change.

Dave.

PS - I found out that shading also has some strange behaviours - on some movie white credits, I notice that there's a reddish tint on the bottom left of the picture, but while the credits are rolling, if there is a lot of text, the iris will open a bit (due to higher luminance on the scene), and so the red tint will change to the upper left of the screen. When there is less text, the iris will close a bit again, and the tint will return to the bottom left. Not pretty...

Hi all

Had the HS60 for 2 days now, haven't bothered calibrating it yet because at this point I might have to send it back. I've seen the red tint and shading probs and slight VB that others have mentioned in this thread but I have another issue that hasn't been mentioned.

I am seeing Motion Artifacts a bit like slight ghosting during movement. It seems to show during a scene where there is high contrast and can be something as simple as the movement of someones head while walking. Almost like the trail or tail you would see on a monitor when you have your mouse set to trail, hard to explain since I've never seen this before. Happens 3 or 4 times in the movie but makes it unwatchable for me.

The HS60 replaces an AE700 I had for 2 years with the same DVD player (Oppo), never saw this problem on that combo. I'm at a loss as to what is causing this. Only watched 3 movies, both NTSC and PAL, tried switching between 720p and 1080i. No differences.

Would appreciate it if anyone can explain this artifact further or has seen it on the HS60 before and managed to correct it.

Thanks
Peter

Never seen it on mine. Thats very interesting. Well, it obviously isnt a problem with the feed (since I dont think there is anything in a video signal that could cause that). I havent seen it on my projector at all, and it would be very strange for you to have LCD memory problems immediately.

It's been twenty years since I've seen trails.

Very minor yet acceptable grayscale/gamma shading errors here.

No VB

No motion trails.

Watched a couple of movies this weekend. I was able to ignore it most of the time (no other option, really), but now I'm sure that VB is getting a bit worse/more pronounced than when the unit was new (and the unit's only at 90h yet). It's just too easy to spot it now, and getting hard to ignore it on any daylight movie scene. I hope this effect goes away or that at least it doesn't continue to increase. :(

<rant>
One of the reasons I stayed "on the fence" without buying a pj, after demo'ing several units, was because of my problems with DLP rainbows and LCD's VB/FPN and lack of contrast. The contrast issue has been minimized with the auto-iris trick, but the rest of the problems are still there, and that's a shame. The worse thing about LCD is that it seems to always be a (very expensive) lottery. It can be a good unit, like Bytehoven's seems to be, or it can come with some nasty problems, like VB, shading and panel convergence problems.
</rant>

Cheers,
Dave.

Dave...

If you have a movie scene reference, I will check again for VB.

Have you considered calling Sony for them to repair or replace your projector?

RJ
...

Dave...

If you have a movie scene reference, I will check again for VB.

Have you considered calling Sony for them to repair or replace your projector?

RJ
...

Any cyan-colored sky will do, or a snow scene like in FOTR or "The Day After Tomorrow initial snow scene). VB is seen like a fixed pattern of faint vertical bands, which is easier to spot on a slowly moving image. On the HTPC it's much easier to show the problem, even just by showing a static green horizontal scale with full-screen bands of dark to bright. I believe that almost or all of the VB is in the green panel. If you can put any solid or scale-like green picture you should be able to see it, if you have VB. I believe all LCDs have VB, but some may have it less. I also found out that as I increase the green gain and bias the VB will completely vanish from a solid max-green (RGB:0,255,0) image, but the low IRE’s of green will still have VB.

I'm not very comfortable with Sony. Just to remember the story, I had a convergence problem on my HS50, and they said they could fix it because it was a 1-pixel uniform shift (I suppose it can be fixed electronically, as I explained, because there is a 3-pixel-wide border of unused panel pixels all around the image). What happened then was that I was without the pj for 2 weeks and then the pj returned exactly the same (they said they didn't see the problem!), but the worse thing was that they scratched the projector's side (unbelievable :( ). Fortunately, the guy from the store where I bought the pj was very supportive and not only he got me a brand new unit (he handled personally the problem with the scratched unit with Sony), but he offered me the opportunity to upgrade to the HS60 for less than $20 (a symbolic price), which I accepted, of course. The new unit came with good convergence and, as a "bonus", it had less VB than my ex-HS50. However, now VB seems to be getting a bit worse.

I think I'll wait a little longer to see if the VB will get worse, better, or stay like it is now. I must say that I’m not 100% sure if this isn’t just me being unintentionally more focused on the issue or if it is indeed getting worse. Anyway, I seriously doubt that Sony's Service Center will consider this to be a problem. If the VB problem aggravates, I may talk with the guy from the store (who will probably begin to think that I'm "too picky" :rolleyes: ), to see if there is a chance I can get personally in touch with a Sony tech guy, instead of going through the service center, which I think would be useless.

All in all, I still think this is the best choice of pj for me at current prices. The only alternative now would be a Ruby or a 3-chip DLP unit, but both are at a price I can’t rationally justify to pay.

As always, thanks for your support.

Dave.

Dave,

I have the exact same artifacts on my HS-60 as you. It's very difficult for me to notice on a stationary image, but as the image pans the VB is noticeable on light-colored scenes. It's kind of like looking through a "streaky" window.

For sure, the VB is not too bad, don't even notice it most of the time. Problem is my eye is now trained to look for it, and I can't avoid seeking it out in every scene.

I've tried getting a Hoya FDAY filter and applying Byte's tweaks and I *think* it helped a touch.

Anyway, if anyone can think of a solution please let us know. I bought mine from Australia and don't want to deal w/ sending it back to Oz for service.

Ok guys, what should I do?
I have a Sony HS51, with almost perfect pixel alignment, green off by 1.
I'm considering upgrading to the HS-51a, my 51 does not have the fix for HDMI 720p, although I run my DVD @ 1080i.

The new feature that caught my eye was the 1to1 pixel mapping with HDMI on the 51a.

The thing that has concerned me was the talk about not having a uniform brightness with this unit. Is this true, please help me make up my mind.

Thanks guys!! :)

How much will the upgrade cost you?

Personally, I wouldn't pay very much for just the 1 -> 1 pixel mapping...

How much will the upgrade cost you?

Personally, I wouldn't pay very much for just the 1 -> 1 pixel mapping...
Everyone's motivated differently, but I've got a 2 year-old HS20 and I'm just now looking at upgrading to a 51a. Obviously, I passed on the 50 and 51. Personally, I wouldn't consider a 51a if I had either of the ones I passed on. But that's just me. :)

Screen came last night (Stewart Firehawk 92in). It was a complete pain to install, but it was worth it, looks great now. In the light the picture isnt incredible, but its definitely watchable. With the lights out, it looks unbelievable. If anyone has any questions about a Stewart Firehawk/HS51A, feel free to ask.

Screen came last night (Stewart Firehawk 92in). It was a complete pain to install, but it was worth it, looks great now. In the light the picture isnt incredible, but its definitely watchable. With the lights out, it looks unbelievable. If anyone has any questions about a Stewart Firehawk/HS51A, feel free to ask.

The DaLite High Power is a similar experience, although with a little more narrow viewing cone than the firehawk.

Good luck with your HT.

hi, what gain is your firehawk?.l'm getting an aussie made 1.4 gain (white) screen

hi, what gain is your firehawk?.l'm getting an aussie made 1.4 gain (white) screen
Original was rated at 1.35, but the newer ones are only 1.25, due to Stewart making some other improvements that lowered the gain a little.

:) My movie viewing set-up is a Zenith DVB-318 DVD player feeding 1080i to my 51A and projected on my 118" Carada BW screen in my totally light controlled HT with black ceilings, dark grey walls, and deep burgundy carpet.
At present I am totally satisfied.

Toshiba & Sony will have to talk the studios into a total halt of production of standard DVD's for me to consider upgrading.

Toshiba & Sony will have to talk the studios into a total halt of production of standard DVD's for me to consider upgrading.
Of all the possible scenarios for the introduction of BD/HD-DVD, that is not one.

Of all the possible scenarios for the introduction of BD/HD-DVD, that is not one.
Give it 6 months. It will be funny when about 3 companies come out with dual format players and just destroy the entire fight. I am looking forward to it.

Hello,

I am not as "technical" as everyone else seems to be here - I got into the service menu.

I am looking for some calibration settings for my projector that is running using an HDMI cable from a DVD player not a PC.

Just some basic #s that worked out for people would be great!

Hello,

I am not as "technical" as everyone else seems to be here - I got into the service menu.

I am looking for some calibration settings for my projector that is running using an HDMI cable from a DVD player not a PC.

Just some basic #s that worked out for people would be great!
Did you try searching?

Did you try searching?

Yes I did with no "specific" luck.

I dont know what 7500k, and all that other stuff is. I know how to follow step by step directions and just looking to calibrate my 51A to the best view for DVD through HDMI.

Yes I did with no "specific" luck.

I dont know what 7500k, and all that other stuff is. I know how to follow step by step directions and just looking to calibrate my 51A to the best view for DVD through HDMI.
I'm not a 51/51a/60 owner - got an HS20 - but I know I've seen a few people posting their settings. Maybe it was on the 50/51 thread. Do you have a calibraion/setup disc such as Avia or Digital Video Essentials (DVE)?

I'm not a 51/51a/60 owner - got an HS20 - but I know I've seen a few people posting their settings. Maybe it was on the 50/51 thread. Do you have a calibraion/setup disc such as Avia or Digital Video Essentials (DVE)?

My friend let me use the avia - but i have 0 clue how to use it. I tried, and couldnt get far at all.

I think i need some blue filter?? but i dont have that

My friend let me use the avia - but i have 0 clue how to use it. I tried, and couldnt get far at all.

I think i need some blue filter?? but i dont have that
The blue filter comes with the disc and is used for color adjustment. But just going to the brightness/contrast portion of the disc and setting those adjustments will dramatically improve your picture. You can do that without the filter.

The blue filter comes with the disc and is used for color adjustment. But just going to the brightness/contrast portion of the disc and setting those adjustments will dramatically improve your picture. You can do that without the filter.

the first one - brightness was tought.

It would be so much easier if somoene told me OPTIMAL settings for dvd through HDMI viewing

the first one - brightness was tought.

It would be so much easier if somoene told me OPTIMAL settings for dvd through HDMI viewing
Hustle on over to the Sony HS-60 details thread and search for posts from Bytehoven. I've read that he posted a spreadsheet on settings.

Here is the link:

http://www.blanca.com/51A/RJ%2051A%20Calibration%20SpreadSheet.xls

I am currently using the G, H & I settings, which have the master contrast setting at 95 and the service menu RGB gain/bias settings tweaked accordingly.

At some point I will remeasure my 51A for lamp color temp changes, but so far I have not noticed any obvious color temp drift.

cheers

RJ
...

Hello

i have my little hs60 since half year and i was lucky to get it

looking dvd, anime, or just playing console games was never so much fun

but now i try the first time to set up my pc and mac with it and found out that it need a little calibration - i want to use the 9300k/95contrast settings mention in this treat, but when i try to get in the service mode and press (enter) the hs60 shows 'not applicaple !' on the screen - i found nowhere on the forum what i need to do, or what i did wrong

does anybody have an idea what i need do to so that i can input (enter) (enter) (UP arrow) (DOWN arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the service mode?" on my hs60?


and by the way, for the settings rcp - should this be turned off, or is it handy?


thanks for your patience and have a great time
adrian

Just ignore ' not applicable' while you are pressing Enter, Enter, Left n Enter. After you select the UP arrow, then you should hit Menu n the service menu will appear at the bottom of the list. After you hit Service Menu button, the list of setting will appear on the right column.



Hello

i have my little hs60 since half year and i was lucky to get it

looking dvd, anime, or just playing console games was never so much fun

but now i try the first time to set up my pc and mac with it and found out that it need a little calibration - i want to use the 9300k/95contrast settings mention in this treat, but when i try to get in the service mode and press (enter) the hs60 shows 'not applicaple !' on the screen - i found nowhere on the forum what i need to do, or what i did wrong

does anybody have an idea what i need do to so that i can input (enter) (enter) (UP arrow) (DOWN arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the service mode?" on my hs60?


and by the way, for the settings rcp - should this be turned off, or is it handy?


thanks for your patience and have a great time
adrian

PS - BTW, I suppose you don’t have any news or new tips on the gamma shading problem? This is my only gripe with my HS60. I found out that I notice it even on color movies, as the colors are warmer (red-biased) on the left side of the screen. It’s also visible on subtitles. I was going to try to minimize these shading errors by eye, but as the gamma levels on the service menu now appear as green-biased, I’m finding it near impossible to see where the shading errors are, so I really don’t know where to start… :(

This is my only really major gripe regarding this projector. I have read this entire thread twice but am still not clear on suggestions regarding correcting the shading problem in the factory menu. I go into the factory menu and under "Device" I select gamma. The background colour changes to black and I get a menu that allows me to change "Level" "Position" and "R" "G" "B". I have no idea what changing "Level" does and if changing the "Position" before changing "Level" makes any difference. I assumed that I should just go through all the positions on the left of the screen reducing "R" and on the right of the screen increacing "R". But when I go back to my Avia grey screen, there is no difference, still red on the left and blue/green on the right . What am I doing wrong? Any help greatly appreciated.

Conor

I guess i'm just a moron since I can't get into the service menu even though I follow the keystrokes exactly as described. Each time I push the enter button or the up arrow or down arrow I get a "not applicable" message on the screen. What am I doing wrong?

I guess i'm just a moron since I can't get into the service menu even though I follow the keystrokes exactly as described. Each time I push the enter button or the up arrow or down arrow I get a "not applicable" message on the screen. What am I doing wrong?

Look two posts up. Just ignore the "Not Applicable" message.

I am ignoring it, but, it still does not go to the service menu.

Forgive my impatience. This is just very frustrating to me. I have worked in the service menu of other TV's I have had and no problems. I appreciate all of the hard work everyone on this thread has done to provide this information.

Forgive my impatience. This is just very frustrating to me. I have worked in the service menu of other TV's I have had and no problems. I appreciate all of the hard work everyone on this thread has done to provide this information.

On my HS60, I press Enter, Enter,Left, Enter and a black banner apperas on the lower part of the screen asking if I want to enter the factory menu. Press Up on the remote control to answer "Yes" to this question and the black banner disappears. Now go into Menu on the remote as normal and you should see two extra options at the bottom of the menu, "W/B" and "Device" There is also an orange "F" at the bottom of the menu to indicate that you are in the factory menu. HTH

Conor

It's OK, I finally figured out the gamma adjustment...talk about tedious :eek:

Well I've just spent the day setting the gamma for each level by eye and although it can't be accurate it's a huge improvement with colour errors across the screen now very difficult to detect when watching a movie. I used chapter 3 of Star Wars IV (capturing Princess's ship) to gauge and the red hue on the right of the screen is now gone.

Thanks to all those who posted in this and the HS50 thread regarding this issue.

Conor

Thanks for your reply, but, I am trying to get into the service menu. I have a 51a. When I enter the keystrokes, I get no indication that i'm in a service menu. Nothing changes.

I finally got the service menu to come up. I had to take the IR emitter of of the projector to get it to take the codes. I used Bytehoven's settings for 95% Contrast and 7500K. Picture is great! I left the sharpness at 50% because I could not see any difference between min and 50%. I assume that Bytehoven means min when he says off. I went into the factory menu also, but, didn't change anything. Thanks again!

Anyone have a good source they want to share for the replacement lamp for the 51A/60? Mine is still going strong but I want have a backup.

Thanks,

M./

Has anyone paired the HS-51A with the Toshiba HD-A1? Any problems with the handshake? I presume the PQ with the Toshiba has to be quite awesome.

Anyone have a good source they want to share for the replacement lamp for the 51A/60? Mine is still going strong but I want have a backup.

Thanks,

M./

Greetings,

You can try O n e c a l l They are authorized to sell Sony and I purchased my HS51a and a replacement lamp from them.


Regards,

I have a new HS-51A that I am trying out. I am bothered by a hot spot about 1 foot in diameter on an 84" diagonal Dalite Cinema Vision screen. It moves around the screen as I change my viewing position. The hot spot is noticably brighter on bright scenes, which accentuates the SDE, and is hardly visible on dark scenes (probably because the iris is shutting down). I did not have any such hot spot with my prior projector (a DLP - Toshiba MT-700, which was much brighter than the Sony), so I do not think it is the screen. Does anyone else have this or is a problem with this particular projector? If it is this projector, is it something that can be fixed in the menus or should I return it as defective?

Could you plz explain what you did with the ir emitter?......thanks Ken

Bytehoven, I cannot get to the file from your earlier link. Is there any way you can repost it?

Also do the 6500K, 7500K, and 9300K correspond to the high, middle, and low settings?

How do the User1, 2, 3 buttons correspond to these settings if at all?

SOrry if this is shown somewhere else, but I cannot find the info.

Thanks for all the work you guys have done in this thread.

MJP:

I deleted the file but I have reposted it for a few more days.

6500K - LOW

7500K = MID

9300K = HIGH

If I recall correctly, User 1, 2 & 3 are set up the the original factory High, Mid & Low. So you could simply tweak User 1, 2 & 3 and leave the others "as is".

With Bytehoven's permission I have attached a slightly revised version of his calibration spreadsheet. If you eneter your own HS51a/60 factory settings in the new section on the left under "My High," "My Mid" and "My Low", the spreadsheet will complete the settings all the way across. I found it useful, 'hope others do too.

Just right-click on the attachment and click "Save target as"

Conor

Yesterday I was at a friend's house who also bought the HS60 after seeing mine at my place. He asked me to tweak his HS60 unit to look more like mine.

First thing I noticed, it's the first HS60 I see with virtually no VB (I've seen 4 different units, including mine). Damn it really makes a difference. I wish mine was so "VB-less" like that... :(

Just for an experiment, I tried changing a bit the "P.Drv/V Common G" value who's default was at 82. Just about 10-15 points in any direction and VB (on green panel) would come up visible just like my unit's VB (also it would make some flickering scanline artifacts on screen) . At the default value, it was clean. Changing this value on my unit also seems to reduce VB, but then I have too much scanline artifacts (I can't have them both ok - no VB and no scanlines -, like my friend's pj).

Unfortunately I spotted a serious problem with his unit - there's a dark thick diagonal stripe across the screen on the blue panel. This is visible even on a all-black picture. On a white picture it shows up as a yellow-ish stripe. Very unfortunate... :( He's taking his unit to the store today.

Dave.

Just a quick update about the diagonal stripe on my friend's HS60, for those who may be curious about it...

I went to the store with him and when we turned the pj on, the stripe was gone from the blue panel... Tipical... ;) Then we tried to play a movie and the thing reappeared again, but this time it was probably on the red panel and now it was only about a half a screen's height, and it moved a bit (probably with the ventilation)... Turns out it is probably a hair or some sort of fiber that is loose inside de LCD block. It will most likely have to go to Sony's Service (I wish him luck!). Note that this dust must have come from the factory, as the unit is almost new (less than 10 hours of use).

Dave.

Good Thread Guys..... I am a owner of a HS51, not the A ;) But was wondering if some one had some good ISF tech or Self Settings that would help me improve my picture. For some stupid reason I lost all my settings that where great and I forgot where in the hell I put them. Any help would be much appreciated...... Can't wait for a 1080p unit by Sony that is reasonably priced of course.

From the Sony sales people that sold me the HS60, they said there will be a Mini Ruby, something like model VPL-W50, coming out end of Sept. 2006 n retail at HK$45,000(about US$5,800). It will be 1080P n using the same panel as Ruby, so no more LCD n VB.

From the Sony sales people that sold me the HS60, they said there will be a Mini Ruby, something like model VPL-W50, coming out end of Sept. 2006 n retail at HK$45,000(about US$5,800). It will be 1080P n using the same panel as Ruby, so no more LCD n VB.
They didn't happen to say anything about light output, did they? The Ruby is somewhat lumenally challenged. And FWIW, some vendors have been selling the Ruby at around the $7k mark for 4-5 months.

From the Sony sales people that sold me the HS60, they said there will be a Mini Ruby, something like model VPL-W50, coming out end of Sept. 2006 n retail at HK$45,000(about US$5,800). It will be 1080P n using the same panel as Ruby, so no more LCD n VB.
There are several threads going in the $3500 and up forum about this new projector. It’s code named the Pearl, 1080p SXRD, UHP bulb, Contrast ratio around 6000:1, light output similar to the HS-51, and US retail should be around $5000.00.

Thanks for posting the spreadsheet again guys.

With Bytehoven's permission I have attached a slightly revised version of his calibration spreadsheet. If you eneter your own HS51a/60 factory settings in the new section at the end, the spreadsheet will complete the settings all the way across. I found it useful, 'hope others do too.

Just right-click on the attachment and click "Save target as"

Conor


hmmmmmmmmm........this wont open....says cant find site etc

hmmmmmmmmm........this wont open....says cant find site etc


Did you try a right-click and "Save Target As?"

Has anyone paired a video processor with Sony's HS51A front projector? I am looking for suggestions, given that I watch lots of SD DVDs (from a Sony DVPNS90P), and HD from Dish Network (HBOHD, Discovery, etc). I have not watched much SD stuff from Dish since it looks pretty bad on a 100in diag screen (da-lite cinema vision). I expect to add HD-DVD at some point, but waiting to see how the BD vs HDDVD battle shakes out.

I am hoping to to do two things:

* improve the SD material a little bit so that its more pleasing to watch.

* improve the HD material as much as possible.

Has anyone paired a video processor with Sony's HS51A front projector? I am looking for suggestions, given that I watch lots of SD DVDs (from a Sony DVPNS90P), and HD from Dish Network (HBOHD, Discovery, etc). I have not watched much SD stuff from Dish since it looks pretty bad on a 100in diag screen (da-lite cinema vision). I expect to add HD-DVD at some point, but waiting to see how the BD vs HDDVD battle shakes out.

I am hoping to to do two things:

* improve the SD material a little bit so that its more pleasing to watch.

* improve the HD material as much as possible.
I believe a reviewer or two mentioned using an external scaler with the 51/51a. I use a good upscaling DVD player - Denon 3910 - and 92" wide image from my HS20 looks great. My 8300HD is set to pass all resolutions, so the HS20 is scaling only to native resolution. I don't think an external scaler improves 1080i material such as the channels you mention.

Has anyone paired a video processor with Sony's HS51A front projector? I am looking for suggestions, given that I watch lots of SD DVDs (from a Sony DVPNS90P), and HD from Dish Network (HBOHD, Discovery, etc). I have not watched much SD stuff from Dish since it looks pretty bad on a 100in diag screen (da-lite cinema vision). I expect to add HD-DVD at some point, but waiting to see how the BD vs HDDVD battle shakes out.

I am hoping to to do two things:

* improve the SD material a little bit so that its more pleasing to watch.

* improve the HD material as much as possible.

Greetings,

I am using an Anthem AVM-50 which utilizes the Gennum VXP video processor along with my HS51a. The Gennum is set to output 1280x720. It scales/deinterlaces 1080i/480i/480p to the HS51a's native resolution. It does an incredible job in all respects.

I would certainly recommend a quality video processor with the HS51a. I do have a Denon 3910 which is set to 720p. It's video is passed through to the Sony which in turn bypasses it's video processor. At some point I will look into a 480i player which does no via HDMI.

Regards,

Greetings,

I am using an Anthem AVM-50 which utilizes the Gennum VXP video processor along with my HS51a. The Gennum is set to output 1280x720. It scales/deinterlaces 1080i/480i/480p to the HS51a's native resolution. It does an incredible job in all respects.

I would certainly recommend a quality video processor with the HS51a. I do have a Denon 3910 which is set to 720p. It's video is passed through to the Sony which in turn bypasses it's video processor. At some point I will look into a 480i player which does no via HDMI.

Regards,
Is you Anthem/Gennum processing your 3910's output?

Is you Anthem/Gennum processing your 3910's output?

Greetings,

Pepar, as I stated previously the 3910 is set at 720p and it's output bypasses the Gennum and Sony scalers. The scaler in the Denon is very good as is it's deinterlacing. While it is not as good as the Gennum it is very capable. If the Denon passed 480i via it's HDMI output it would THE optimum situation. I really love the Denon's sonic qualities.

That is what keeps me from going with a player like the Oppo 970HD for use as a transport and selling the Denon.

Regards,

Greetings,

Pepar, as I stated previously the 3910 is set at 720p and it's output bypasses the Gennum and Sony scalers. The scaler in the Denon is very good as is it's deinterlacing. While it is not as good as the Gennum it is very capable. If the Denon passed 480i via it's HDMI output it would THE optimum situation. I really love the Denon's sonic qualities.

That is what keeps me from going with a player like the Oppo 970HD for use as a transport and selling the Denon.

Regards,
Thanks. That was my underlying question: How does the scaler/deinterlacer in the Denon compare to your standalone unit?

Did you try a right-click and "Save Target As?"


No.......l'll do that today when l get home.....thx

Cheers ken

No vertical banding here.

Can you mention some films which demonstrate the problem?

I have heard this is an uncommon and projector specific issue.

Is this possibly a PAL issue?

Maybe you could give some specifics on your signal path to the HS-60.

I'm on my second HS51A. The first had, not horrible banding, but still noticeable enough for me to return it. Especially, in black and white scenes. This second one has a few very faint, single, sporadic strands of VB. But, in the short time I've been viewing this one, it seems much less noticeable and distracting. I may not have seen enough varied material to make a complete judgement, however, nor spent enough hours on the lamp.

By the way, does anyone know of anyone that I could contact at Sony, or otherwise, to get a replacement "SONY" nameplate for the front of my pj. They installed one that has big gouges in the letter "Y". I know no one else will notice it and it's a petty thing to worry about, but that's how I am with something I spent a lot of money on. :o

I doubt it is a PAL issue as I bought one of the first HS60"s that came on the market,mine is fine after 450 hours.

Having dealt with CRT PJ's for years and finding out what can and does go wrong with them.

I suspect this might be a uneven charge/voltage across the LCD panels that might be the cause of banding,that and manufacturing differences......It doesn't take much either way .

Probably explains the slight factory setting [one side slightly brighter than the other] phenonomen that you can fix in the service menu.

BTW:Anybody using a power line conditioner?

I am ,basically as a precutionanay measure,and I have never had a problem with this unit.

I doubt it is a PAL issue as I bought one of the first HS60"s that came on the market,mine is fine after 450 hours.

Having dealt with CRT PJ's for years and finding out what can and does go wrong with them.

I suspect this might be a uneven charge/voltage across the LCD panels that might be the cause of banding,that and manufacturing differences......It doesn't take much either way .

Probably explains the slight factory setting [one side slightly brighter than the other] phenonomen that you can fix in the service menu.

BTW:Anybody using a power line conditioner?

I am ,basically as a precutionanay measure,and I have never had a problem with this unit.
I am - on my HS20. My observation was that it improved black levels, richened the color and reduced vertical banding.

I am - on my HS20. My observation was that it improved black levels, richened the color and reduced vertical banding.

I sorry,you have me nonplussed!

What improved black levels?

A Neutral densitiy filter?

You can always go the cheat if using a HTPC that has zoomplayer+win/Dscaler+FFDshow.

But I have posted that before.

Loathed to dabble twice.

I sorry,you have me nonplussed!

What improved black levels?

A Neutral densitiy filter?

You can always go the cheat if using a HTPC that has zoomplayer+win/Dscaler+FFDshow.

But I have posted that before.

Loathed to dabble twice.
I was replying to the only question in your post: "BTW:Anybody using a power line conditioner?" General question - general answer.

The specifics are that I am using RGPC 400 MkII - four of them. One on an ATI 2007, one on an Hsu subwoofer power amp, parametric EQ and 1/3-oct EQ, and two on my head-end gear including the HS20. And I noticed an immediate improvement in black levels - which richens colors, too - and a reduction in VB.

I was replying to the only question in your post: "BTW:Anybody using a power line conditioner?" General question - general answer.

The specifics are that I am using RGPC 400 MkII - four of them. One on an ATI 2007, one on an Hsu subwoofer power amp, parametric EQ and 1/3-oct EQ, and two on my head-end gear including the HS20. And I noticed an immediate improvement in black levels - which richens colors, too - and a reduction in VB.

Pardon my questioning.

Ever ventured into the realms of DEQX?

I'm deciding if I can pay past the wife for 3 of these units,the factory is less than a mile away from me.

When the option is becoming,rather silly to dismiss.

BTW:Anybody using a power line conditioner?


I used a BPT BP-1 Ultra unit on my aussie HS-60 and it didn't have any effect on my slight banding. Wish there was an easy solution...

Hello,

I purchased a HS-51A over the weekend and I have a quick question about picture quality/focusing. My current setup is the projector is mounted to the ceiling and a 35' HDMI cable runs from the projector to a storage room where I have a PC setup running Windows Media Center. The cable then connects to a DVI to HDMI adapter and plugs into a nVidia 6600 video card via its DVI port. My question has to do with the clarity of the desktop. I have the focus set so that the onscreen menus look extemely clear but the Windows desktop is slightly blurry. Is this normal? I couldn't imagine it is a problem with the cable as the picture works. Is there a setting in the 51A that is slightly blurring the picture? Any comments would be appreciated as I want to make sure I don't need to replace any component.

BRock97

Hello,

I purchased a HS-51A over the weekend and I have a quick question about picture quality/focusing. My current setup is the projector is mounted to the ceiling and a 35' HDMI cable runs from the projector to a storage room where I have a PC setup running Windows Media Center. The cable then connects to a DVI to HDMI adapter and plugs into a nVidia 6600 video card via its DVI port. My question has to do with the clarity of the desktop. I have the focus set so that the onscreen menus look extemely clear but the Windows desktop is slightly blurry. Is this normal? I couldn't imagine it is a problem with the cable as the picture works. Is there a setting in the 51A that is slightly blurring the picture? Any comments would be appreciated as I want to make sure I don't need to replace any component.

BRock97
You'll probably get more action on this topic on the Home Theater Computer forum.

Thanks. Actually, I found the problem. I had the keystone set to a -6. Set it back to 0 and everything popped in perfectly. Being a novice, I wasn't aware how keystone worked. Sorry to bug you fine folks.

has anybody got any gripes with the iris on this unit
im going to get one to tide me over till all this 1080p crap settles

has anybody got any gripes with the iris on this unit
im going to get one to tide me over till all this 1080p crap settles

Greetings,

You will have to be specific regarding what you mean by "gripes".


Regards,

No gripes here. The 51A is better than the 51.

Please keep in mind, there are particular scene compositions which allow you to see the IRIS function, but they are so rare, they are easily offset by the improved contrast dynamics.

I'm sure Sony did a better job on the Ruby and will also do a better job on the forth coming Pearl. However, IMHO the 51A is still a remarkable implimentation.

i have read in so many reviews that when subtitles are on a dark back ground it gets brighter than darker irradicly(this was present in the pre-production units and i haven't found a review of the production model .but if it doesn't bother you guys it's not worth worrying about

The appearace of subtitle brightness is affects by the scene dynamics even on a projector without an auto iris. It's a function of your own eyesight and pupil dilation.

Certainly the auto iris can make it worse because of the iris reactiong to scene dynamics.

Personally it's not something I noticed as a problem.

Greetings,

I would agree. While there are instances where I notice the iris opening and closing it is certainly no real problem. The trade off is excellent pic quality and the ability to have 1:1 pixel mapping. Having owned both the 51 and now the 51a I can say that I prefer the 51a.


Regards,

There's really only been once that I was annoyed by the iris. We were watching a Dennis Miller Live DVD, and the camera shots were switching between a bright stage shot and a very dark audience shot at every punchline, and the iris was always "running to catch up". As I had guests and I try not to tweak when others are around, it was driving me nuts:D Luckily, someone needed to pause for a break, and I quickly shut it off.

That's the only time I can remember it being distracting. Certainly I can see it in operation from time to time, but the image improvement is well worth any occasional iris function visibility, IMO.

I believe a reviewer or two mentioned using an external scaler with the 51/51a. I use a good upscaling DVD player - Denon 3910 - and 92" wide image from my HS20 looks great. My 8300HD is set to pass all resolutions, so the HS20 is scaling only to native resolution. I don't think an external scaler improves 1080i material such as the channels you mention.


I'm still in love with my HS20. They can be found at Frye's for less then $700.00!
Strange how far we've come and yet not so distant. I won't upgrade again until they have full blown 1080p for less then two thousand!!!

I'm still in love with my HS20. They can be found at Frye's for less then $700.00!
Strange how far we've come and yet not so distant. I won't upgrade again until they have full blown 1080p for less then two thousand!!!
That was my thought as well - until I saw the contrast and black level of a 51. And the 51a is supposed to be even better. I may work a 51a (or a sccessor) in to my theater before 1080p comes to my affordability level.

I still use a HS20 in my second, family room system. While the HS51a defintely beats it in most categories, it still throws a very enjoyable image. I've been watching it more than the 51a the last month (since I threw my back out and there's a couch in that room). It's still a fine PJ, just not quite at the top anymore. More power to you if you can fight off the urge to upgrade!

That was my thought as well - until I saw the contrast and black level of a 51. And the 51a is supposed to be even better. I may work a 51a (or a sccessor) in to my theater before 1080p comes to my affordability level.


Greetings,

Pepar, I just have to ask...WHEN are you going to take the plunge? You have been hanging around these discussions since I bought my original HS51 in April 05. I now own the 51a and still read the same posts from you ( like the one above).

Jump in my man the water is fine !


Best Regards,

Greetings,

Pepar, I just have to ask...WHEN are you going to take the plunge? You have been hanging around these discussions since I bought my original HS51 in April 05. I now own the 51a and still read the same posts from you ( like the one above).

Jump in my man the water is fine !
:) Fair question. My arc has been:

1. Zeroed in on 51a as a replacement for 20
2. Got financially prepared
3. Got put off by posts of drifting 51a shift/focus
4. Attention (and mad money) turned to next round of home theater acoustical treatments - bass traps

When that's done, I'll re-assess my situation, finances and under $3.5k projectors.

No need to be that serious, I think Ralph was just kidding.

The lens shifting is an very minor issue for me. As long as you place the unit within the reach of your finger, it can be done like flicking a light switch. Plus, I don't notice it moves every time after use. I think the matter you should worry on this unit is the minor VB n a not-so-bright picture if you don't have a light-controlled room.

No need to be that serious, I think Ralph was just kidding.

Greetings,

Yep, just kidding. BTW, having owned both the 51 and now the 51a I can tell you the the lense drift issue is all but non existent on the 51a. I did have more of a problem with it in the 51 although it was not that bad. I have no signs on vertical banding either.


Regards,

No VB !!! Good for you since several HS60 that I saw here before buying, all had a minor case of VB. Of course, much better than those using D5 panel.

Greetings,

Yep, just kidding. BTW, having owned both the 51 and now the 51a I can tell you the the lense drift issue is all but non existent on the 51a. I did have more of a problem with it in the 51 although it was not that bad. I have no signs on vertical banding either.
Oh, I know you were kidding, but I truly was spooked by the posts talking about that problem. If one already owns the fine projector, dealing with it is a fact of life. But I couldn't bring myself to knowingly buy into the problem. It may have been fixed, but that threw me off enough to allow another project to come to the front.

No VB !!! Good for you since several HS60 that I saw here before buying, all had a minor case of VB. Of course, much better than those using D5 panel.

Yes, I know it's surprising: they DO exist! :).

Two friends of mine recently bought the HS60 (after seeing mine... :p). This makes it 4 HS60 units that I've seen in person. Mine and another one that I've seen earlier have a bit of VB. Of these two more recent units that my friends bought, one has more VB than mine (easily noticeable), but the other has absolutely no VB or FPN. I've looked for it carefully and using an HTPC, searching all three colors (R,G,B - especially the greens...), using certain movie scenes and so on, but it was nowhere to be seen. Envy is not a pretty feeling... :o Oh well... :)

Pity, this lottery when buying an LCD, but such is life. As projectors get in the mainstream and more and better technologies (such as SXRD/LCoS and C2Fine) become available at affordable prices, many of these artifacts will be history. I hope my next projector won't have VB or color uniformity issues or rainbows or posterizing, and so on... "I have a dream..." :D

Dave.

PS - Still love my HS60, though... ;)

Do anybody here know when we should change the filter (after how many hours) ???

Thanks.

Do anybody here know when we should change the filter (after how many hours) ??? My place is not a dusty area.

Thanks.

1000 hours! On screen warning appears a few hours before the 1000 hours are up.

Cheers!

Thanks. You meant there will be a on-screen warning after 1,000 hours since I did not catch that in the manual.

can we clean these filters prior to 1000 hrs?

The warning appears before the 1000 hours are up.
The filters are not meant to be cleaned. They are a disposable item. Not cheap though!

Cheers.

Somebody said you can vacuum-clean it. Did anybody try it here ???

Plus, anybody experience dust spot on the LCD panel ? If yes, how do you clean it. Thanks.

I have a Sony HS-51A that I purchased about 2 months ago. I really like the color and sharpness but I have one issue that I have not seen referred to nor have I experienced with my prior projector (a Toshiba MT700). There is a hot spot in the middle of the screen that emphasizes the SDE when I sit in the middle and it moves as I move from side to side (if I sit on the left, the hot spot moves the left side of the screen). It is much more obvious in bright scenes, almost disappearing in dark scenes . I have a Dalite Cinemavision screen (1.4 gain, I believe), but, since it did not occur with with my prior projector, I am not sure that it is the screen. Has anyone else experienced this? Could be a defect in the projector or maybe is it an incompatability between the screen and the projector? Thanks.

Somebody said you can vacuum-clean it. Did anybody try it here ???

Plus, anybody experience dust spot on the LCD panel ? If yes, how do you clean it. Thanks.



mmmmm.....l was thinking of taking it out and putting in the replacement one while l tried vaccuming the original .....l'll check it out soon and see how it looks..l'm presuming running in low it'll be less dirty anyway

cheers ken

Since much of the stuff the filter catches is too small to see, how would you know when it is clean? Spending a couple of grand on a projector and then cheapening out on the filter just seems, IMO, to be, well . . . cheap. You wouldn't do that with your car's oil filter, would you?

Since much of the stuff the filter catches is too small to see, how would you know when it is clean? Spending a couple of grand on a projector and then cheapening out on the filter just seems, IMO, to be, well . . . cheap. You wouldn't do that with your car's oil filter, would you?


l'm not worried about the cost of replacement......l'm just into preventative mantainance and was concerned about buildup prior to the 1000 hrs

l'm not worried about the cost of replacement......l'm just into preventative mantainance and was concerned about buildup prior to the 1000 hrs

I was under the impression that it is good practice to vacuum the filter every 100 hours...but only from the outside of the filter. That's what I've always done with all my projectors.

l'm not worried about the cost of replacement......l'm just into preventative mantainance and was concerned about buildup prior to the 1000 hrs
Build-up would only be an issue if it begins to restrict airflow. And the air in the room would need to be really polluted for that to happen. I recently replaced my HS20's filter and saw nothing at all on the original filter.

Honestly, both the you (and your family) and the projector will be healthier and happier if you use an ionic air filter in the space. In a dust-free - down to a 5 micron size - a filter should never need replacement.

Just my $.03.

Build-up would only be an issue if it begins to restrict airflow. And the air in the room would need to be really polluted for that to happen. I recently replaced my HS20's filter and saw nothing at all on the original filter.

Honestly, both the you (and your family) and the projector will be healthier and happier if you use an ionic air filter in the space. In a dust-free - down to a 5 micron size - a filter should never need replacement.

Just my $.03.



l'll check out ionic filters as we have a wood heater in the main part of our home and they do dust up more than other forms of heating.......the ht room is remote from this though and should be ok anyway.....cheers ken

I just ordered a Sony VPL-HS60. I have an unconditional 10 day money back guarantee. I wanted to post this question because it will help me make sure I end up with a reasonable projector as far as quality control goes. I believe it falls under the title of tweak and others may have the same question.

I know some of this has already been covered in this thread, but now might be a good point to make clear/summarize the possible quality control issues.

I would like to know first an explanation of the problem (what it looks like so I know what to look for) and then what test material I should project while looking for the issue.

These are the following known issues as I understand it:
1. What is and how do I look for vertical blinds (VB)
2. What is and how do I look for convergence issues
3. What is and how do I look for color shifting?
4. What is and how do I look for possible ghosting?

I understand some are not so much issues as the reality of the LCD technology, but the varying severity still warrants their listing. It may be helpful, therefore, to note an acceptable level of each issue.

I also understand that, for example, Sony may now say a 2 pixel convergence issue is acceptable, but since I have an unconditional money back guarantee I may not find this acceptable and may decide to send my unit back for a refund or exchange.

Feel free to add to or correct any of these noted "issues".

Thanks!
Daniel

Hi there, after much pondering and comparison I have just purchased for myself the HS60.
This site was very valuable in helping me come to a decision so when I purchased my projector I came straight back to figure out how to tweak it.
Two questions...

Firstly, I am unable to get into the SERVICE mode by following the enter, enter, up, down, enter commands as posted? Any suggestions?

Secondly, in regards to the 6500k, 7500k and 9300k settings, I understand they relate to the low, mid and high colour temp settings therefore is it safe to assume that 6500k refers to low and 9300k to high? It's just that I've seen most of the settings listed as:

.........6500K.......7500K.....9300K
RG......132...........132..........132
GG........28............32.............33
BG.........27...........39.............54
RB.......121.........121............117
GB.......130.........129............127
BB........136.........136...........134

However, when people refer to the default settings it is listed as:

.......high...mid....low
RG...128...128...128
GG.....49....44.....35
BG.....69....55.....34
RB...122...121...123
GB...128...128...128
BB...135...136...137

Which suggest 6500k refers to high. I would be grateful for any clarification.

Thanks heaps in advance.
Jason

Low mid & high = 6500 7500 9300

After you enter the codes for the service mode, you need to hit the menu button again. Look at the bottom you should see W/B in white, and OTHER if you enter the codes for the factory mode.

Go into W/B and you will see you can adjuste LOW, MID HIGH User 1 User 2 User 3 WB settings.

Good luck with your new projector.

Hi there Bytehoven,
Thanks heaps for the prompt reply and clarifying the colour temp settings.

I am still unable to enter the service mode? Does Sony use standard methods for entering service mode or do they perhaps have different methods for different regions? For what it's worth I live in NZ so I guess it is a Asia Pacific model.

When you say I should see W/B at the bottom in the main menu... do you mean there will be an additional option below the SIGNAL, SETUP, INFORMATION options or should it appear elsewhere?

For the life of me I can't seem to find any additional options. Also, I am never prompted "would you like to enter service mode" as per the original post.


Thanks again
Jason

Hi There:

While I am still using the Sony HS51 P.J. and very much enjoying it I had a ? which is annoying. My lamp burned out at 1400 hours and I replaced it. Now @ 2000 hours I get the screen prompt to replace lamp. I have done the
reset-left-right-enter, all to no availe as the next time I turn on system the prompt is still there. Do I physically need to remove lamp and repace it??? I have repaced filter so power has been shut off. Seems like a stretch. BTW I love the projector. Thanks, this is very irritating.

John

whats the difference between the 60/51A? One have less screen door effect etc?

hello well i took the plunge,and got a hs60 its fantasic... but the shift to red on a all white(or grey)field bothers me,as i came from a 9 inch crt projector im used to having some method of correcting this .now i have had a play with this pj and have come to the conclusion that the shift to red (on the left on mine .floor mount )is coming form the iris control software . want proof? well then put up a all white field and then turn the iris on and off .what you will find is the problem goes away (for about half a second ) then comes back indicating to me that this is "possibly" fixable

your thoughts greatly appreciated

does anybody know of a possible software update ?

Have you calibrated the projector for white balance and grayscale tracking?

If not, you might consider trying some of the service menu calibration settings I and others have posted.

The 50/51 & 60/51A definitely have a red push bias because of the auto iris process, specifically the video process which goes along with the auto iris to adjust gamma and some other things.

However, once you calibrate the projector with the iris on AUTO, the red push is dramatically improved.

I have not heard of any software updates, but the these projectors like most others, perform their best when properly calibrated. Others have reported good results with some of my calibration settings, which I have posted for 5500K, 6500K and 9300K and at a few different contrast/brightness master settings.

Personally, I find my calibrations with the master contrast at 95, do the best job at taming white balance & grayscale performance from top to bottom of the luminance range.

Don't give up on this very sweet projector. tweak it.

:)

RJ
...

PS... if you search my screen name, you might find some of the tweak posts more quickly than flipping though all of the pages.

how does everyone like the hs60/51a? how far back till the screen door effect is dissappears? any screenshots please?

Will be buying a projector in the next few days, I have my list narrowed down and on the LCD side this is on the top, for DLPs it is the HD72, mits 3000U, Panasonic PT-AX100

Will have 92' screen 93" cielings, sitting 10-15 feet back

12' from a 92" wide High Power has been magic for me.

When viewing alone, I don't mind moving forward to 10'-11' and dialing just a little defocus on the HS51a, and the experience is front row seat theater-esque. :)

I'm not in a hurry to upgrade yet. I know many folks are jumping over to the Ruby or Pearl, however, I think I can hold out until 1080p source material arrives in full force. When I do upgrade, the HS51a might be something I hold onto for use in the Master BR or for the kids.

bytehoven i have tried your settings in the service menus but they are all really red and it seems to dull my brightness.My default settings are for 7500k red g 128/green g 54/blue g 56 bais settings are red 120 green 128 blue 141
any advice?

"Really red" sounds like you might have a problem rather and a poor calibration. There is no way 7500k or 9500k should appear red, although your projector could require an extremely different custom calibration to be "right".

I might be nice to know what kiind of rough RGB bias/gain setting give you a more normal picture. If you can not eliminate red push altogether, maybe you need to setup a service visit.

Bytehoven any screenshots?

there seems to be some bad errors in the gamma shading menu ,is it worth correcting?
the values i listed above give me a normal image my only problem is the red push
you see with your gain/bias settings im turning down green and blue more than the red so thats what is giving me the red image

Keep in mind, RED is the color that runs out 1st on the HS51A lamp, so you calibrate with maximum red output at 100 luminance values. It looks like your lamp has a little more RED output to spare, which is a good thing because it will allow you to run green/blue at higher values than I can, and achieve a few more lumens.

Perhaps Sony has changed it's lamp design because of earlier faliures, and the color temp range of the "new" lamp design requires very different calibrations for white/gray scale tracking.

You need to have the projector calibrated to flat grayscale response from 30-100 IRE. That should solve your red push. But again, I found there is an advantage to setting master contrast at 95 before you calibrate the service RGB bias/gain settings. It tames some of the video processing of the auto iris process.

Gamma shading errors, you mean some red/blue errors on various parts of a gray screen? If yes, this is a common problem with LCD and even the Lcos based Ruby & Pearl. If it's real bad, Sony will correct or replace the LCD panels. Trying to make the adjustments yourself is possible, but quite a chore. I did with my old HS-51 and I don't think I would try to do it again. If I had the same level of gamma shading errors on the 51A as I did on the 51, I would have gotten Sony to correct the problem.

Screenshots? No. IMHO, screen shots are not a very good way to determine anything. Anything you find fault with in a screen shot could very well be camera error. A very well taken picture of a poorly setup projector can look better than a poor picture of a well calibrated projector. So I don't bother.

okay so how is the Screen door effect at 10 feet back from a 92" screen?

At 10' from a 92" screen, a perfectly focused image will allow you to see SDE on bright white areas.

You can use a pair of binoculars and very slightly adjust the projector focus. Watch how adjusting in one direction is slightly different than in the other. I believe it's counter clockwise, the edges of the pixels start to disappear while the dimple & overall shape remains apparent. A very small amount of focus will hide the pixel edges, eliminating SDE while maintaining near near perfect focus of the image from your viewing position.

Keep in mind, the ability to see some SDE can make it seem like the image is sharper. A little defocus to hide the edges will make it feel like the image is soft even though you can see all the detail you need in the projected image. Give it a try. The HS51/51A lens is a little more coarse than I'd like. The IF7205 had an excellent lens that let you do this kind of defocus very easily. Good luck

Hi,

I have a" Stewart screen with Grayhawk RS. Little about my setup:
- Sony HS60(1280x720, LCD) input VGA/HDMI
- DVDO VP30 output VGA/HDMI, input SDI and RGBs
- Denon 1920 SDI or HDMI directly to sony
- Topfield 5100t RGBs
- Very well light controlled room, ceiling only 4% light reflect, sidewalls light grey (soon black velvet), size 4.5m, 3.3m, 2.4m
- Projection distance 3.5m

I'm having trouble with the highest white level? Naturally I have tried adjusting setup every way possible but always the very highest level of white detail is missing or the whitest parts are kind of "glowing".

Any hints how I should try to fix this? Shouldn't Grayhawk be ideal for LCD or at least it should not be the cause for this kind of "glowing" eftect?

Bytehoven:
Are you using HDMI or VGA connection for your measurements?

On the HS-51A, all of my calibrations were done with the HDMI input.

Regarding white highlights... what are you using to calibrate your highlights? I ask because I made a DVD with a IRE/luminance test pattern with single steps from 90-100 IRE/% values. That way I could see when even 99 and 100 startedt to merge.

I used AVIA Pro for all of my other patterns, although I also have Get Gray.

Hi there,
Just wondering if anyone can offer any other suggestions regarding entering the service menu.

I have followed the posted instructions however I am not prompted "would you like to enter the service menu" nor can I see W/B anywhere.

I have tried several times with no success.

I've read that one user (AggiePilk) had to "remove the ir emitter" to get it to work??

Any feedback/suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks
Jason

On the HS-51A, all of my calibrations were done with the HDMI input.

Regarding white highlights... what are you using to calibrate your highlights? I ask because I made a DVD with a IRE/luminance test pattern with single steps from 90-100 IRE/% values. That way I could see when even 99 and 100 startedt to merge.

I used AVIA Pro for all of my other patterns, although I also have Get Gray.

I have AVIA, DVE and DVDO test disks, but I have not actually used them because the problem is so weird.

I have tried your settings for 7500k(80 contrast, 45 bright) and even when I use contrast value 35 there is annoying glitter, but only on the brightest area. I am going grazy here. I did wipe my screen surface with lightly damp cloth, but surely it should not spoil the screen, right? I have treid VGA and HDMI inputs. I'm ranting... :(

I think I would need same kind of DVD to identify what level of IRE starts to glitter.

I have AVIA, DVE and DVDO test disks, but I have not actually used them because the problem is so weird.

I have tried your settings for 7500k(80 contrast, 45 bright) and even when I use contrast value 35 there is annoying glitter, but only on the brightest area. I am going grazy here. I did wipe my screen surface with lightly damp cloth, but surely it should not spoil the screen, right? I have treid VGA and HDMI inputs. I'm ranting... :(

I think I would need same kind of DVD to identify what level of IRE starts to glitter.
Ya gotta use a calibration DVD. It may not "fix" your issue, but at least you will have covered Displays 101.

Ya gotta use a calibration DVD. It may not "fix" your issue, but at least you will have covered Displays 101.

Of course I have done this in the pastr, but I am going grazy because I cannot identify the root of this problem. I do not know when this fu....ing glitter/star effect has emerged.

1. What is the correct colorspace to be used for HS60? VP30 has the possibility to choose from RGB, component 4:2:2 and component 4:4:4.

2. I have contacted our Finnish service concerning HS60 and they told me there is new sw version available for HS60. It has come late August. Does anybody know anything about this?

Of course I have done this in the pastr, but I am going grazy because I cannot identify the root of this problem. I do not know when this fu....ing glitter/star effect has emerged.

1. What is the correct colorspace to be used for HS60? VP30 has the possibility to choose from RGB, component 4:2:2 and component 4:4:4.

2. I have contacted our Finnish service concerning HS60 and they told me there is new sw version available for HS60. It has come late August. Does anybody know anything about this?
While I can't imagine how mis-calibration would be causing your problem, my point was that it *might* fix it.

Have you checked the HS60 manual for the clorspace spec? (I'm an HS20 owner.)

Hi there,
Just wondering if anyone can offer any other suggestions regarding entering the service menu.

I have followed the posted instructions however I am not prompted "would you like to enter the service menu" nor can I see W/B anywhere.

I have tried several times with no success.

I've read that one user (AggiePilk) had to "remove the ir emitter" to get it to work??

Any feedback/suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks
Jason

You have to hit enter-enter-up-down-enter in fairly quick succession to get the prompt. If it doesn't work, hit menu twice to reset it before trying again.

My projector came from Japan, and the service and factory mode sequences work.

While I can't imagine how mis-calibration would be causing your problem, my point was that it *might* fix it.

Have you checked the HS60 manual for the clorspace spec? (I'm an HS20 owner.)
Last night I tried calibrating using DVE, but the problem still remains. I ended up with settings gamma 0, cont 60, bright 60, color custom 2 with green bias 30 and gain -30. Red and blue were perfect but green was wierd.

HS60 manual does not tell this information.

I'm going to try to use another HDMI cable, but I doubt that it will correct the shining.

Last night I tried calibrating using DVE, but the problem still remains. I ended up with settings gamma 0, cont 60, bright 60, color custom 2 with green bias 30 and gain -30. Red and blue were perfect but green was wierd.

HS60 manual does not tell this information.

I'm going to try to use another HDMI cable, but I doubt that it will correct the shining.
That is very weird. Could you take a good picture and post it?

That is very weird. Could you take a good picture and post it?
I tried another cable and it did not have effect, as expected. I took pictures but still have to download them from camera.

BTW, I have this kind of setup:
- 82" Stewart Grayhawk RS
- DVDO VP30, Denon 1920 SDI and Topfield 5100t
- Very well light controlled room, ceiling black (only 4% light reflect), sidewalls light grey (soon black velvet), length 4.5m (14.8f), width 3.3m(10.8f), height 2.4m(7.9f)
- Projection distance about 3.4m(11.2f)
- Projection height from floor about 1.8m(5.9f)
- Screen height from floor about 0.9m(2.9f)

Ideas?

I'm starting to be sure that problem is my Grayhawk RS.

[OFF TOPIC
Project Central projection distances are a bit off. It shows 3.69m for max projection distance for 82" screen but in real life I'm able to use 3.9m. Not big difference but in my case enables me to move projector from ceiling mount to back wall ;)

I'm starting to be sure that problem is my Grayhawk RS.
Really? :confused:

Post the pic(s). A close-up would be good. I don't understand how it could be the screen, but then I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I was going to ask if you tried connecting the DVD directly to the projector, just to remove everthing else from the equation.

Really? :confused:

Post the pic(s). A close-up would be good. I don't understand how it could be the screen, but then I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I was going to ask if you tried connecting the DVD directly to the projector, just to remove everthing else from the equation.

I have tried without scaler, different cables etc. Now I'm trying to find a new position to the projector. I think problem is less severe when projector is further back, less light I guess. At this point optics start to fail, because now that vertical lens shift is going towards maximum as is zoom, I start to get shading on certain gamma levels and loose focus on the edges.

I might have used wrong words when describing the problem. Currently I would say that white might be ok, but I'm having annoying phenomenon like I see everything through something. :confused:

Edit:typo

I have tried without scaler, different cables etc. Now I'm trying to find a new position to the projector. I think problem is less severe when projector is further back, less light I guess. At this point optics start to fail, because now that vertical lens shift is going towards maximum as is zoom, I start to get shading on certain gamma levels and loose focus on the edges.

I might have used wrong words when describing the problem. Currently I would say that white might be ok, but I'm having annoying phenomenon like I see everything through something. :confused:
I don't remember ever reading anybody else describing what you're describing. You need another set of eyes on it. Have any home theater-friends nearby?

Hi, i have my HS60 calibrate four months ago. Now i buy the CalMan Software and take a Controll, hier my result. I am very pleased about it. No Ansi messuring was done. The Grayscale was perfect.

HS60_CalMan_PDF (http://www.itl-net.at/download/SonyHS60_CalMan.pdf)

lg

stephan

Hi, i have my HS60 calibrate four months ago. Now i buy the CalMan Software and take a Controll, hier my result. I am very pleased about it. No Ansi messuring was done. The Grayscale was perfect.

HS60_CalMan_PDF (http://www.itl-net.at/download/SonyHS60_CalMan.pdf)

lg

stephan

would you mind sharing your actual PJ settings for:
contrast
brightness
tint
hue
rgb gain
rgb bias

thanks

Its a little tricky

Contrast 95
Brightness 19
Color 50
Hue 50
Sharpness 0
BlackLevel Adj. OF
Gamma OF
Iris Auto
Lamp Low
GAIN 104, 44, 41
BIAS 103, 114, 117

FL-Day Filter
ISCAN HD+
Brightness 0
Contrast +25
Saturation -7

lg

Stephan

I bought a HS60 last weak.
There is no VB (zero) and misconvergence of any sort. Shading error is somewhat present in 20~30IRE. It shows up as red cast on the right side of the screen but it is kind of hard to see if you are not looking for it. 7.5 & 100 IRE look solid with no uneven brightness or color uniformity problem.
I did some iris tweak. I had never noticed the iris working until I changed the 226 value to 255. But boy doing that black level becomes almost like CRT but watching it dimming is distracting. After some experiment I settled for 230 which gives slightly better On/off and ansi CR.

Changing the iris open value from 40 to 0 has brightened up the PJ in mid level quite well.

Only issue I have is when I set the black level to low I get black level too deep without affecting the on/off so I decided to set it to off for good. Any thoughts on this?
Overall I really like this PJ a lot.

Only issue I have is when I set the black level to low I get black level too deep without affecting the on/off so I decided to set it to off for good. Any thoughts on this?
Overall I really like this PJ a lot.

Same result I got with my former HS10 - black level should always be off. The fine details in the dark segments vanish otherwise. Will probably do the same with the new HS60 which is due to arrive this friday. Can't wait! :)

What's the biggest positive surprise you've spotted sofar with the HS60?

Biggest surprise.... Well I sort of knew what to expect but its vibrant and accurate color and deep black level are eye caching big time. I have a very nice CRT that have very accurate color production. Sony practically is same as XG.
What really is surprising why people on this forum are so indifferent about such a great PJ.

Sony has done a great job of refining this machine. You will love this PJ.

As a former hs10 owner and current HS51A owner, I'd agree that the color accuracy and depth of low level scenes will be the biggest standouts when you fire it up the first time. There are certain combinations of mixed brightness scenes that will remind you it's LCD, but for the most part it's very reminiscient of the BenQ 8700 DLP I briefly owned, with even darker blacks. I'd be surprised if you weren't thrilled with it. Plus the fact it's so much quieter you'll wonder if it's even on:)

Right it is almost silent. I however run it in hi alt mode to make sure of not overheating while bulb is now for a few hundred hrs. I also think the remote's inclusion of brightness and contrast as direct entries are a clever move by Sony. Nothing more annoying than have some over play a DVD and then go menu set brightness and contrast while they are looking. Not all DVD's are done right.

Nice to hear - I actually got it thursday :D - one day early, but won't have the time to fire it up until later tonight. Kevin & Caspian - does any of you use the Hoya FLD filter and if so, how do you like it?

No FLD for me (had one on my HS20), but I do have a 10R on it right now, mainly because I had one around. I think a 20R might be even better, but I really have had little time to tweak it, other than the time I spent on the shading.

I have a large (116" wide High Power, 2.35 AR) screen, which is pushing the limits of how large this PJ should probably go. It's plenty bright for me now, but as the bulb ages it might get a bit dim with a FLD filter. If I had one that fit I'd probably try it, but the lens diameters are different between the HS10/20 and 51. I also have an IMX lens on it, so I couldn't use anything but a resin filter, anyway.

If you have a smaller screen & the inclination, an FLD would probably be worth a look. I know it made quite a difference on my HS20. Although the CR on that PJ didn't measure any better between 10/20/30 filters (FLD is approx. a 30 filter), the heavier filters definitely improved the quality of black. I'd imagine this PJ would respond in a similar manner, based on the factory calibration numbers.

I am sort of against adding filters to any lens unless it is justified. I am a photo enthus guy.
If the purpose of FLD is to improve on/off CR then tweak the iris a bit which works flawlessly and it delivers the desired result without crippling the top lumen of this PJ which is a bit on the short. I am using a 96" wide white matt for now but planning to get a higher gain for my theater that is also being used with a Nec XG CRT FP which should benefit from added gain. I like the idea of playing with an anomorphic lens if I can find one cheap.

Yeah, I get a little leary of stacking so many things in the optical path. I have an IMX, Panamorph VC lens and a 10R resin filter. That's more than I would like, but if the end result is an improvement, then IMO it's OK.

Hopefully I will have some more time this winter to see if there's more to be found in the unit. It looks damn good now, anything more will be gravy.

The projector is just right now at low hours without any filter. The FLD will cut too much brightness IMO. I got an HS51a with 12 hours on it one thing I did which was interesting is use the RCP feature. I put up a colorbars pattern and green was the only color off, using RCP green/saturation and hue I was able to make green less lime colored and a darker green. The better looking green shows up nicely in movies, like the FOTR Shire scene for one.

The projector is just right now at low hours without any filter. The FLD will cut too much brightness IMO. I got an HS51a with 12 hours on it one thing I did which was interesting is use the RCP feature. I put up a colorbars pattern and green was the only color off, using RCP green/saturation and hue I was able to make green less lime colored and a darker green. The better looking green shows up nicely in movies, like the FOTR Shire scene for one.

Just finished watching M:I 3 and a couple of segments from other films (including the scene where Frodo and Gandalf meet in the first LOTR - lots of great stuff). Although I'm not done with the tweaking, I really like the image - vivid colors (DLP-like), decent blacklevels but I agree with the brightness issue. No filter for me - it needs the lumens it's already got. A great projector.

Sofar I've only connected it via component from my Sony DVP-7700, but I'm planning an upgrade to a 720p upscaling player with HDMI - Sony DVP NS90 (NS92 in Europe) or the Panasonic S52. What do you guys think? What are you guys using to feed the HS51A with standard DVD? :)

I'm using a SDI RP91 into a DVDO VP30 with mine; I needed a scaler for my constant height setup. It looks terrific.

On the cheaper side, I have an OPPO 971 via DVI feeding the HS20 in the other room, which I just got a few weeks ago. It has quite the impressive picture as well. I'm pretty sure the RP91/VP30 would still beat it, but not by much!

I put up a colorbars pattern and green was the only color off, using RCP green/saturation and hue I was able to make green less lime colored and a darker green. The better looking green shows up nicely in movies, like the FOTR Shire scene for one.

What pattern did you put up?
I played with Green saturation and hue and did not see any change what soever when I toggled back and forth between RCP off and on!! Playing with primaries need equipment which I don't have.

Avia standard color bars pattern. RCP for green is -25 -45 from 0 0 stock settings. I could watch the color green change as I moved the sliders.

I'm using a SDI RP91 into a DVDO VP30 with mine; I needed a scaler for my constant height setup. It looks terrific.

On the cheaper side, I have an OPPO 971 via DVI feeding the HS20 in the other room, which I just got a few weeks ago. It has quite the impressive picture as well. I'm pretty sure the RP91/VP30 would still beat it, but not by much!

Btw: are the OPPO players free of regioncoding and do they have PAL playback?

To answer my own question about the biggest positive surprise with the HS60, it must be the lack of visible screendoor (because I feared it might be quite visible beforehand) - I hardly see it - if at all. Not using de-focusing - it's as sharp as possible. :) When we first meet Frodo sitting by the tree in LOTR:FOTR I can see details in his face/figure without a lot of jaggies - not possible with the old HS10. Is it the use of MLA that 'reduces' screendoor?

The lens is high quality and shows the LCD grid sharp and clear with good amplitude of the vertical and horizontal lines. The pixels are so small that I can't see the SD from my normal viewing distance of 14' from a 106" diagonal screen. So yes the screen door is there and clear but pixel size clears it out of the way.

The OPPO 971 is capable of both region-free and PAL playback according to the manual and what I've read in the DVD Players forum (I've not tried any); not sure about the 970.

For $200 it throws a helluva picture; a few years ago we would've killed for a cheap DVI DVD player like this! I had Momitsu and Samsung DVI players back then that I thought were mediocre at best (and quickly got sold), but I'm impressed with the the OPPO. I hope it holds up over the long haul.

Avia standard color bars pattern. RCP for green is -25 -45 from 0 0 stock settings. I could watch the color green change as I moved the sliders.
Something must be off since I could not see no visible change in green but red and blue. I am puzzled now!

The better looking green shows up nicely in movies, like the FOTR Shire scene for one.

Tom... Did you recheck your grayscale calibration after the RCP adjustment?

I assume you did your master gray/white calibration, RCP and then tweaked 6500 again for any white balance drift.

I think I have to tweak my 51A now that it's approaching 200 hours,. I am starting to notice just a touch of skin tone issues in mid to dark scenes.

I'm interested to see how the grayscale and gamma tracking has changed.

I just eyeball tuned RCP and left contrast at 80, Avia showed brightness just needed to be down one number, color was good at 50. No changes to advanced RGBs. I figure since cine4home got 2000.1 no Iris it's a good place to be if you like the way the colors look. And they do look natural even with the high saturation. Oh I left black off and use gamma 2, high bulb, auto iris.

cine4home said they got 2000:1 with the iris off? Really?

My best iris off performance was in the 1300:1 range, although I did not spend any serious time trying to maximize CR with the iris off or on.

I was probably overlooking a very simple adjustment to help CR with the iris either in the ON or OFF setting.

2000.1 before tuning RGB, after tune down they got just under 1500.1.
Something like 11000.1 in auto iris.

The OPPO 971 is capable of both region-free and PAL playback according to the manual and what I've read in the DVD Players forum (I've not tried any); not sure about the 970.

For $200 it throws a helluva picture; a few years ago we would've killed for a cheap DVI DVD player like this! I had Momitsu and Samsung DVI players back then that I thought were mediocre at best (and quickly got sold), but I'm impressed with the the OPPO. I hope it holds up over the long haul.

Thx Kevin - just found the webpage of oppodigital.com and the 970HD looks very interesting - it says that it is 'universal' and PAL/NTSC compatible, so I guess it would work for me in Europe/R2. :)

Caspian and I were talking about adjusting the autoiris in another thread - basically my only dilemma sofar with the HS60 is the dim colours in very dark scenes (the yellow lettes in the StarWars opening crawl being the best example). When I disable the iris everything looks perfect, but the blacks are not as good anymore. Caspian advised med to set the values of the iris to 16 and 130 (think the default was 40 and 126) so I'm giving it a try tonight.

Does anybody have additional good advice adjusting some of the parameters in the servicemenu for squeezing the best possible picture out of this thing? :)

Thx Kevin - just found the webpage of oppodigital.com and the 970HD looks very interesting - it says that it is 'universal' and PAL/NTSC compatible, so I guess it would work for me in Europe/R2. :)

Caspian and I were talking about adjusting the autoiris in another thread - basically my only dilemma sofar with the HS60 is the dim colours in very dark scenes (the yellow lettes in the StarWars opening crawl being the best example). When I disable the iris everything looks perfect, but the blacks are not as good anymore. Caspian advised med to set the values of the iris to 16 and 130 (think the default was 40 and 126) so I'm giving it a try tonight.

Does anybody have additional good advice adjusting some of the parameters in the servicemenu for squeezing the best possible picture out of this thing? :)

No matter what PJ if it has iris that would be the case. Iris steps down the effective aperture size of the lens and limit the total light output in order to improve black. That is how you get better on/off CR.
One solution is obviously to decrease close value of iris from 126 to like 120 and lower. You need to experiment and find the right setting for you. But doing that will result in lower on/off. Mine is set to 20 and 130 and yes I get some compression of white if the ratio of clip is high but I don't mind and difference for most part is not that much. There are some experienced guys with this PJ who might help.

I would change the open value to 20 first if that did not do the trick then also 126 to 120 and lower two numbers at a time.

Going to try experiment with the iris settings, but I couldn't find them. When I access the servicemenu I get to RGB bias/gain settings or something for the 6 'modes' available. I can't find any other menues in the servicemenu - am I missing something? :o

Under service menu, go to OTHER and using up arrow they should be forth or fifth.
They are labled as IRIS OPEN and IRIS CLOSE. Make sure you save the new values before exiting the service menu.

Thx - figured it out. I was using the 'servicemenu' sequence instead of 'factorysettings' sequence. :rolleyes:

My default values for open/close iris were 42 and 210 - no wonder the picture seemed dim in dark segments. Tried 42 and 120 but that was way to bright with my settings. It turned out that the jump from 210 to just 200 made a huge difference, while still displaying a killer blacklevel/detail.

Haven't really played with the open iris number in detail yet but I will...

Something must be off since I could not see no visible change in green but red and blue. I am puzzled now!

Well I set it up for a return and the vendor is out of stock for now.
I need to wait until mid Jan or buy something else. :(

I have one of these projectors and love it, EXCEPT last night while watching Eight Below which has obviously a LOT of white in it, I noticed some what appeared to be faint "yellow spots" or blotches in certain parts of the image. I moved the image around using the lense shift and confirmed it's in the image not the screen. Could it be the DVD itself or is there something wrong with my PJ? I have 2 days to decide if I want to keep it or not before my "trial" is up from the place I bought it from. I don't see this "artifact" on anything else but pure white. Thoughts?

Thanks.
Kevin