Your quote from 2-15-06/08:36 am, my username is 3/PS, please check out my little story dated 3-9-08/ 11:33 am in the Epik Subwoofer Thread. With your expertise, since you write for a famous magazine, could you and/or any of your peers possibly give me any insight on the Auralex Subdudes/Grammas re:hardwood combined with poured concrete floors?

Thanks, Pat(1) I acknowledge that concrete slabs can vibrate but at low frequencies with low displacements transferring energy anyway.
(2) I have not used the SubDudes with anything other than a wood floor over spaced wood beams. In my other system, with the concrete floor, I have not seen a need.

I feel as if I can greatly benefit from this equipment.

I have a HSU STF-2, Down firing, and I just moved in an older wood floor apartment. It resonates horribly in this apartment. I have to pick up my feet and put them on the table because the vibrations really bother me sometimes.

Not to mention it sounds very muddy.

I used to have it in a concrete basement, and it sounded 100% better

I will need to get the Grammar, as the STF -2 is 19"x14".

My question is, am I better of buying or making this device? Do they use special materials?

Also, is it ugly? I wish they spared the graphics on it.

Thanks, and I'll let you know my impressions.

I ordered a Hsu VTF-2 Mk3 which should be arriving today. I noticed it has the exact footprint of the Gramma, which is nice. It will be placed in the corner of a carpeted second story room with wood supports.

Should a Gramma improve it's SQ? The carpet is semi-thick, so the spikes will penetrate pretty far, meaning the woofer will be pretty close to it. Would simply having more ground clearance from the Hsu being on a solid platform help as well?

My question is, am I better of buying or making this device? Do they use special materials?

Also, is it ugly? I wish they spared the graphics on it.

Thanks, and I'll let you know my impressions.
It is pretty simple to make one yourself if you're handy and resourceful. I wouldn't say the the materials used are special, but they are expensive and hard to find in a small quantity.

The hardest part to find is the legs. I did all kinds of searching online for a decent material and came up empty. It's pretty much a high density, closed cellulose foam. They call it "platfoam". It's probably the most important part as is absorbs the sound so it doesn't transfer to the floor. It will also support the weight of the sub. You can find an actual sound deadening material online, but it's just not cost effective.

Everything else is available and reasonable to buy. Most people substitute the legs with some kind of packing foam or styrofoam. I used styrofoam that can be found in a craft store. What I really wanted to use was a ridged foam insulation. It's only about $8.00 for a 8' sheet, but then I really wouldn't know what to do with the other 7' 6" of it.

The base is made out of 1/2" MDF board. MDF can be found at just about any lumber yard/ home improvement store. MDF has sound absorbing qualities and I believe is what most subs are made out of.

The base is covered with a felt like covering that is used on a lot of guitar amps and can be found pretty cheap at parts express. It's really only for aesthetics. The only other thing is the underneath in lined with "studio foam". It can be picked up pretty cheap at sweetwater.com too. I wanted my home-made subdude base to match my sub a little better so I painted the MDF and used a doormat with a rubber backing than cut it to fit the top. I also substituted the studio foam with 1-1/2" foam weather striping.

I had the MDF board on hand, so the total cost for me was probably about $10-15 bucks. The best part is it is the same size/color as my sub so it's a better match and it actually works! Pffft, who would'a known! :D

I have no doubt an Auralex product would work better than what I made, but for me it is a little over-sized and I didn't have too much more room to spare. If you want something a little more custom looking I say make one yourself. If you play your sub at high levels and need a bit more performance I would get the real deal.

If you want I can take a snap shot of mine and post it. I just have to charge up the battery in my camera. Doing a search for "Auralex" will get you look at the subdude and gramma pads.

I ordered a Hsu VTF-2 Mk3 which should be arriving today. I noticed it has the exact footprint of the Gramma, which is nice. It will be placed in the corner of a carpeted second story room with wood supports.

Should a Gramma improve it's SQ? The carpet is semi-thick, so the spikes will penetrate pretty far, meaning the woofer will be pretty close to it. Would simply having more ground clearance from the Hsu being on a solid platform help as well?
Yeah, I think it really does help the SQ. Simply because it's not resonating the floor as much. It will tighten up the bass a bit and not sound as boomy. At least that's what I noticed. I don't think the type of carpet has much to do with it. or at least that is the common consensus here.

I think the biggest benefits is it will help SQ, and it will help isolate the sub from the floor. If you have neighbors they may appreciate more than you. :D

Matt1196,

Thanks for the info, I did want it matching, but I may trade this is for an increase in performance.

If you could post some pics, that would be great.

I'm going to go ahead and Order it, I'll let you all know my thoughts! (with pics)

The gramma is a little too small for my sub and the great gramma is a little too big for my liking. Do you guys think I could wrap a 24x24 piece of mdf with carpet and lay it on top of the subdude or gramma, or would this reduce the effects?

Just ordered 4 subdudes and some difusers.

I'll let you know how it all works out!

If you are going through the trouble of wrapping MDF with carpet, just get some auralex foam to put under it and you will have your own version of a gramma.

Matt1196,

Thanks for the info, I did want it matching, but I may trade this is for an increase in performance.

If you could post some pics, that would be great.

I'm going to go ahead and Order it, I'll let you all know my thoughts! (with pics)
Here ya go. let me know what you think.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/Chunk-O-Funk/sub/dudetop.jpghttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/Chunk-O-Funk/sub/dudeside.jpg

The bottom and side view aren't so pretty, but I will clean that up latter.
It actually started off as a prototype, so I know I can do a little better.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/Chunk-O-Funk/sub/dudebottom.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p207/Chunk-O-Funk/sub/SUB.jpg


You also have to keep in mind my sub is small compared to most at 14" W X 17" D and only about 50lbs.. I don't think styrofoam legs will hold up to most big subs. :D

Well I'm considering getting a Gramma for my new MFW-15. With the gramma being 15" x 23" that shouldn't be a problem with the MFW being 18.25" wide? That'll only leave 1.625" overhang on the sides so I'm thinking it's no problem as far as stability goes?

Well I'm considering getting a Gramma for my new MFW-15. With the gramma being 15" x 23" that shouldn't be a problem with the MFW being 18.25" wide? That'll only leave 1.625" overhang on the sides so I'm thinking it's no problem as far as stability goes?


I'm gonna do the same thing when I finally get the MFW-15. Its so heavy I'm sure it will balance just fine. I've already purchased the Gramma in anticipation.

I'm gonna do the same thing when I finally get the MFW-15. Its so heavy I'm sure it will balance just fine. I've already purchased the Gramma in anticipation.

Subdude works fine with the MFW-15. I was debating trying to build one but just decided to order one from Sweetwater.

Well I just went ahead and ordered my gramma from Sweetwater. :) Looking forward to trying it out with my MFW.

Wow, not only did they get it "shipped" on a Saturday but they actually called me to let me know! Now that's customer service. Glad I decided to try out Sweetwater after seeing you guys mention it. :)

Well I just went ahead and ordered my gramma from Sweetwater. :) Looking forward to trying it out with my MFW.

You'll love your Gramma! It makes a huge difference!!

See you down in Arizona Bay!!! :eek:

Wow, not only did they get it "shipped" on a Saturday but they actually called me to let me know! Now that's customer service. Glad I decided to try out Sweetwater after seeing you guys mention it. :)

Yeah - they will call you again once you have received it as well to make sure you got it, and have it working correctly, and see if you have any additional questions/concerns.

If the sub has a front driver and a front port with these products make a difference?

If the sub has a front driver and a front port with these products make a difference?

Yes it should.

What it does is decouple your sub from the floor to reduce the vibrations. It will help with transferring the sound from one room to the next a little bit, but mostly it will tighten up the sound of the bass simply because the floor isn't vibrating as much.

Basically, if you can feel the the bass with your feet through the floor one of these should help your situation. It really doesn't matter which way the driver or port is facing. It's more about stopping the vibrations from the sub's cabinet. Although, it's safe to say owners of a down firing sub may be more likely candidates.

If I dont have neighbors to worry about, do I need one? I LIKE the way the floor shakes with my PB12-2+.
It sits on a laminate wood floor over a wood floor over a basement. I do admit its better for HT than music, it also has the original 12.1 drivers.
Wouldnt taking away the "tactile" aspect of the sub-bass be taking away part of the whole sub experience?

Please help me understand.

I thank you.

Personally, I would still use a Gramma/SubDude. Your bass will sound much cleaner. Before I got mine, my floors, baseboard heat and pictures on the walls would all rattle at certain low notes. In fact, while playing a track from one of the Bass Meckanik CDs, my right front speaker (CSW MC600HD), the one closest to the sub, would start oscellating back and forth about 3/4"! After installing a Great Gramma under my SVS PB12-Ultra/2, all the motion of the floors, walls, pictures, speakers and baseboard heat stopped, making the bass sound MUCH cleaner. If you still want to really feel the bass in your HT setup, just add a ButtKicker to your favorite viewing chair.

I just ordered 2 subdudes and 1 great gramma to try out. I have a PB12 Ultra/2 and twin 16-46CS+ 12.3 tubes. The tubes are 16" in diameter and the Ultra/2 is damn near 30"x19"...........all should be a perfect fit. I'm curious to see if I'll notice a difference.

Believe it! The "Subdude", without a doubt, has had the most impact on my system's performance! It literally changed the sonic response of my subwoofer! No more shakes, rattles or over the top booms! The response is tight and accurate, damn near musical!:eek: It completely refined a subwoofer (Klipsch RSW10) known to be somewhat unrefined! Yes, the "Subdude" will make a difference for the better.

Regards!

Hey I just found this... what do you guys think? Suppose to be used for low-frequency vibration.

http://www.anti-vibrationpads.com/CB_anti_vibration_pads.htm

I am expecting dual mfw's so i might give it a go.

Thanks.

Long standing thread here...

I rub two powered 15" subs and my Projector was shaking during most all intense scenes... Two subdudes and 6 months later, I have not noticed a projector shake since. :) Performance in general does seem a little better as well.

Well my clarmac pads came in. Placed them under my sub. Played WOTW and thought... something must be wrong with my sub. NOPE! Just the sound and feeling of nice tight bass. Bass is more refined. I never thought anything was wrong till now. I guess I was use to all the muddy boomines emanating from behind my couch since it was so close to my back wall.

Well my clarmac pads came in. Placed them under my sub. Played WOTW and thought... something must be wrong with my sub. NOPE! Just the sound and feeling of nice tight bass. Bass is more refined. I never thought anything was wrong till now. I guess I was use to all the muddy boomines emanating from behind my couch since it was so close to my back wall.

I was going to say, I've used those for many years. We use them to dampen printing presses where I work, and I swiped some roughly 15 years ago. They work well, but I can't compare to the Subdudes in any way.

I've no doubt about the positive testimonies of the subdude but my only reservation on getting one is that it makes the sub and the room ugly. My sub would need two of them which means that it would look twice as ugly as using one. Sorry but no thanks.

I've no doubt about the positive testimonies of the subdude but my only reservation on getting one is that it makes the sub and the room ugly. My sub would need two of them which means that it would look twice as ugly as using one. Sorry but no thanks.

It's not for everybody. Enjoy your pretty room. :rolleyes:

Believe it! The "Subdude", without a doubt, has had the most impact on my system's performance! It literally changed the sonic response of my subwoofer! No more shakes, rattles or over the top booms! The response is tight and accurate, damn near musical!:eek: It completely refined a subwoofer (Klipsch RSW10) known to be somewhat unrefined! Yes, the "Subdude" will make a difference for the better.

Regards!

Sorry but it sounds to me like complete ******** marketing and i often wonder who works for certain companies here. (not that i would ever suggest you do or anyone its just a thought that occured to me as i wrote this )

Of course people who buy one will testify its the best thing since sliced bread because they want to justify the purchase.

If your room is causing your subwoofer to be boomy then you need an SMS-1 and i really don't see how this will do anything other than stop your floors rattling or to stop sound being heard as loud downstairs if you live in a top floor apartment....Of course the sound will change when you stick your subwoofer on top of one ( The sound can change just by moving your subwoofer a foot from where it originally stood ) but i don't buy into this rubbish about it suddenly making a subwoofer musical where before it wasn't.

Sorry but it sounds to me like complete ******** marketing and i often wonder who works for certain companies here. (not that i would ever suggest you do or anyone its just a thought that occured to me as i wrote this )

Of course people who buy one will testify its the best thing since sliced bread because they want to justify the purchase.

If your room is causing your subwoofer to be boomy then you need an SMS-1 and i really don't see how this will do anything other than stop your floors rattling or to stop sound being heard as loud downstairs if you live in a top floor apartment....Of course the sound will change when you stick your subwoofer on top of one ( The sound can change just by moving your subwoofer a foot from where it originally stood ) but i don't buy into this rubbish about it suddenly making a subwoofer musical where before it wasn't.

This sounds to me like complete ******** marketing. :rolleyes:

It's a lot easier to justify a $50 purchase than a $600 one. Definately more BANG for the buck! :eek:

Don't knock it `till you try it! ;)

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/165155-subwoofer-vibration-suggestions.html

There is no substitution for an acoustically treated room and an SMS-1. Yet the cost of admission for the Subdude or most isolation products is insignificant in the grand scheme of things when putting together a quality audio system. Considering most major equipment upgrades can be costly in nature, this one is a no brainer if someone is skeptical about what the Subdude can achieve or not achieve, That's is my .02.

Ya there is a SUBstitute to the SMS, one that does time domain correction as well as EQ, a product out of Finland does it, and if Audyssey and SVS ever bring it to market the SVS EQ thingy (I forget what they are gonna call it) .

If your room is causing your subwoofer to be boomy then you need an SMS-1 and i really don't see how this will do anything other than stop your floors rattling ...................Stop there. That is exactly what it does and it is complementary to what an SMS-1 or other EQ does. I do not recommend it for poured concrete floors (as in my apartment) but for sprung wood floors (as in my house). As with anything else, it is only the right tool for a particular task.

BTW, the ASC SubTrap is an even more effective, bulky and expensive alternative.

This sounds to me like complete ******** marketing. :rolleyes:

It's a lot easier to justify a $50 purchase than a $600 one. Definately more BANG for the buck! :eek:

Don't knock it `till you try it! ;)

My projector was shaking without it and it doesn't with it?
I can demonstrate the effect quite easily if ya ever want to see it.


On the performance increase? I don't think I could blind test it, no way. I have a pretty darn good room, in some rooms I would assume it would make a bigger difference than others.

Sorry but it sounds to me like complete ******** marketing and i often wonder who works for certain companies here. (not that i would ever suggest you do or anyone its just a thought that occured to me as i wrote this )

Of course people who buy one will testify its the best thing since sliced bread because they want to justify the purchase.

If your room is causing your subwoofer to be boomy then you need an SMS-1 and i really don't see how this will do anything other than stop your floors rattling or to stop sound being heard as loud downstairs if you live in a top floor apartment....Of course the sound will change when you stick your subwoofer on top of one ( The sound can change just by moving your subwoofer a foot from where it originally stood ) but i don't buy into this rubbish about it suddenly making a subwoofer musical where before it wasn't.

There have been enough posts submitted to this thread to verify the effectiveness of the "Subdude". You don't have to believe it. That's your choice. Not everyone will have a need for the product, and that's fine. Until you actually experience the "Subdude", your opinion, which you are entitled to, well, it's just an opinion based on speculation!:rolleyes: And, contrary to narrow-minded belief, the sonic response has vastly improved in my room. The bass is tighter and more refined!

Regards.

There have been enough posts submitted to this thread to verify the effectiveness of the "Subdude". You don't have to believe it. That's your choice. Not everyone will have a need for the product, and that's fine. Until you actually experience the "Subdude", your opinion, which you are entitled to, well, it's just an opinion based on speculation!:rolleyes: And, contrary to narrow-minded belief, the sonic response has vastly improved in my room. The bass is tighter and more refined!

Regards.

The placebo effect.

The most effective thing i ever did to get better sound from my subwoofer was buy an SMS-1....With that i could see an onscreen graph and know it was having a real effect....Before i was getting boomy bass at certain frequencies due to the room but after installing the SMS-1 i was getting great bass.

Anyways like you said it's just my opinion and don't let it bother you.

I installed 2 Subdudes under my SVS PB12 Ultra 2 Subwoofer and the difference is astronomical. My wife was even surprised by the difference.

I highly recommend them without hesitation.

The placebo effect.

The most effective thing i ever did to get better sound from my subwoofer was buy an SMS-1....With that i could see an onscreen graph and know it was having a real effect....Before i was getting boomy bass at certain frequencies due to the room but after installing the SMS-1 i was getting great bass.

Anyways like you said it's just my opinion and don't let it bother you.

Foxy,

I respect your opinion and understand your skepticism. I would suggest due to the cost of the product, you might want to do a test yourself and see if it has any effect in your opinion. I think Musiciansfriend. com does allow returns if you are not satisfied with your purchase. Please check me on that if you decide to take the plunge.

Also, the placebo effect can work both ways as I am sure you know.

Charles

The placebo effect.

The most effective thing i ever did to get better sound from my subwoofer was buy an SMS-1....With that i could see an onscreen graph and know it was having a real effect....Before i was getting boomy bass at certain frequencies due to the room but after installing the SMS-1 i was getting great bass.

Anyways like you said it's just my opinion and don't let it bother you.

I was considering purchasing one after reading this thread but decided to try a DIY solution instead. Last night I folded up a yoga mat that wasn't getting any use and worked it under my sub (SVS PB12-ISD/2). I had never had any complaints about the bass but was starting to think it could be tighter. Also, in my room if I turned the gain up past 1/4 the bass would not get any louder, it would just get sloppier. With the yoga mat under the sub I cranked it up to 1/2 and let it rip. There was an obvious difference. Without the mat the bass was sloppy, you could feal it but it lacked punch and was not very tight. With the mat under the bass was much tighter and had more of that punch in the chest feel to it. I tried removing and replacing it and there was no doubt the improvement was not "all in my head".

Of course it's not for everyone. My living room is a wood floor over a 1-room basement (the same size as the living room), the basement is pretty much just a concrete box. I figure some of the bass was being transferred into the basement and coming back up off the concrete resulting in the sloppiness I was experiencing. Decoupling the sub from the floor sent less bass into the basement to return and muddy up things.

I'd really suggest you just try it, if you've got something "squishy" around the house that can support the weight of your sub without compressing completely just throw it under and see what happens. Now I just have to figure out how to hide the bright pink yoga mat shoved under my sub :)

sorry i cant read this whole thing,

did anyone manage to make measurements before/after these ground isolation/vibration absorbing devices e.g. subdudes and grandmas ?

The most effective thing i ever did to get better sound from my subwoofer was buy an SMS-1.....If I didn't have the SubDudes, the SMS-1 would have to EQ my floorboards and it doesn't have the bandwidth for that! :D

Received my Subdude two days ago...noticed the difference right away. tighter bass and less vibration...boominess is gone. I was skeptical about this product but you have to hear to believe. I however still know that the person living below my apt can still hear the sub though.

The placebo effect.

The most effective thing i ever did to get better sound from my subwoofer was buy an SMS-1....With that i could see an onscreen graph and know it was having a real effect....Before i was getting boomy bass at certain frequencies due to the room but after installing the SMS-1 i was getting great bass.

Anyways like you said it's just my opinion and don't let it bother you.

Your opinion? A SMS-1 and Subdude do two seperate things.

Question: did you perform your own measurements seperately before and after using the SMS-1? Using your logic it is entirely possible that the great bass you are getting was simply a direct result of the placebo effect after seeing the lines on the graph straighten out.:rolleyes:

To some the benefit of a Subdude is going to be minor while to some it is substantial. I would argue that ANY benefit no matter how minor is worth it considering the price tag and the fact that a Subdude will last a lifetime.

I would agree that a parametric equalizer has a greater benefit to most people but it would do nothing to solve the shaking of the floors in my room while the subdude does a bang up job.

I cannot believe the arguments here on some thing called a subdude. If someone thinks it's good then go out and buy it and enjoy it. If however someone thinks its a placebo, then why do some of you run the guy down and challenge him to make a battery of tests? A minor benefit to me considering it looks ugly isn't worth having it for free. To someone who doesn't care about aesthetics then a minor benefit is worth every penny. If it were a floor flat isolation pad that could be custom made to the size of my sub then I would buy it. It unfortunately is a pad raised up on square blocks and it comes as one size may or somewhat fit all or maybe not. I'm more concerned in enjoying the show rather than each and every part of the system while the movie is playing.

One quick question, do you guys lay your sub flat on the subdude or you will have some kind of the spikes or rubber feet between the subdude and the subwoofer?

Also, has anyone actually compare the effectiveness of subdude compare to let's say..a thick piece of carpet? (all on hardwood floor of course)

I cannot believe the arguments here on some thing called a subdude. If someone thinks it's good then go out and buy it and enjoy it. If however someone thinks its a placebo, then why do some of you run the guy down and challenge him to make a battery of tests?

I can see you are new around here. Someone saying that an improvement is due to the placebo effect is fighting words as far as I'm concerned. :D

I can see you are new around here. Someone saying that an improvement is due to the placebo effect is fighting words as far as I'm concerned. :D

Yeah, and what's up with all the B******* marketing of the subdude? I'm getting sick and tired of all the subdude ads on TV, in magazines, and around these forums. You never hear any actual testimonials or good reviews from real, knowledgeable people, just lots of marketing hype so they can gouge you for $50! </sarcasm>

:p

If however someone thinks its a placebo, then why do some of you run the guy down and challenge him to make a battery of tests?

Dude, are you reading the same thread as me? He's basically calling everyone on here who says it has made a difference in their setup a liar...or at the very least mistaken.

He's the one who is challenging the results of people who have tested their system both with and without the subdude.


Sorry but it sounds to me like complete ******** marketing and i often wonder who works for certain companies here.

Looks like he's the only one running anybody down. :p

I cannot believe the arguments here on some thing called a subdude. If someone thinks it's good then go out and buy it and enjoy it. If however someone thinks its a placebo, then why do some of you run the guy down and challenge him to make a battery of tests? A minor benefit to me considering it looks ugly isn't worth having it for free. To someone who doesn't care about aesthetics then a minor benefit is worth every penny. If it were a floor flat isolation pad that could be custom made to the size of my sub then I would buy it. It unfortunately is a pad raised up on square blocks and it comes as one size may or somewhat fit all or maybe not. I'm more concerned in enjoying the show rather than each and every part of the system while the movie is playing.

You are starting to sound more like troll than someone interested in the Subdude. If you're not interested in trying the Subdude yourself or not able to speak from experience you don't have any value to add to this thread. There are many satisfied Subdude users and it's a cheap tweak that you can try for what it takes to ship it to you.

Ok for the record and i should have said this from the beginning....I actually made my own isolation pads/feet or whatever you want to call them for my SVS PB-12-Plus/2 Subwoofer....I made this using the materials which came with the subwoofer packing to stop it being damaged in transit but i don't consider the bass to be tighter or more articulate or more musical....I did this to stop the floorboards rattling through to the neighbours place below ( and it worked )

It was the SMS-1 which made the most difference and to the person who asked how i knew it wasn't the placebo effect...Well you use a sound level meter with the SMS-1 ( its not just graphs ) and the SMS-1 basically can give you a good insight into the very best place in your room to put your subwoofer.....I also used AVIA for setting up my system and its invaluable for setting up the subwoofer...Using both that and the SMS-1 brought my system into a more coherent soundfield...I run my subwoofer 3 decibels higher than my other speakers.

So yes i think this subdude can work with smaller subwoofers to stop the floorboards rattling but to make a sub more musical ? I am still skeptical but i guess i should keep an open mind.

I mean the sub i own is huge and there is no way one subdude would have done the job anyways.

So hey apologies to those who think i'm being a bit harsh on this subject.

Ok for the record and i should have said this from the beginning....I actually made my own isolation pads/feet or whatever you want to call them for my SVS PB-12-Plus/2 Subwoofer....I made this using the materials which came with the subwoofer packing to stop it being damaged in transit but i don't consider the bass to be tighter or more articulate or more musical....I did this to stop the floorboards rattling through to the neighbours place below ( and it worked ) I know. I once built a subwoofer out of mail-order parts and a crate and it was quite mediocre. So, I conclude that the mail-order SVS PB-12-Plus/2 can't be very good, either. :rolleyes:

I know. I once built a subwoofer out of mail-order parts and a crate and it was quite mediocre. So, I conclude that the mail-order SVS PB-12-Plus/2 can't be very good, either. :rolleyes:

The parts i used are very similar to what the Subdude uses for its isolation but much thicker and more useful for this type of subwoofer.

Gee its real funny how one negative opinion can make so many people start having a go at the people who question the product ( I would question expensive speaker cables as reviewed on Stereophile making the sound better than quality shielded lower priced cables in much the same way as i question this )....Instead of being sarcastic try actually explaining why you think it's so good...Explain to me how this product turns a non musical subwoofer into a musical subwoofer....Yah know it's like play nice time rather than be sarcastic....You'll get more customers for the product by actually explaining in great detail what it is that makes it so good in your opinion rather than just venting some sort of anger by making sarcastic comments.

Believe it or not but i am actually a pretty decent person and if you read some of my old posts you will see this so perhaps cutting me some slack here and just going into some detail about this product and convincing me the old fashioned way rather than shooting me down dead because i questioned how this product could do more than just stop floorboards rattling.....Picture it this way...If i was a customer you wouldn't get all sarcastic if i said i'm skeptical in your shop would you ? No sale if you did...No you would explain to me what makes the product so great...Explain some technical details to me as to how it all works rather than just say it does and end of.

I mean i know it works as far as stopping the floorboards rattling but how on earth does it make a non musical subwoofer suddenly become a very musical subwoofer ?

I offered an apology in the post before this and if you can't accept it and feel the need to be sarcastic....Have fun...Says more about you than it does me and you tend to lose any argument when you resort to such posts as yours as it says you really are insecure about your purchase ( After all if you were truly secure why the need to defend the product by being sarcastic and why not explain why you feel it's so great instead )

I mean the sub i own is huge and there is no way one subdude would have done the job anyways.
You are right. I had to use 2 underneath my Ultra 2.

do you guys lay your sub flat on the subdude or you will have some kind of the spikes or rubber feet between the subdude and the subwoofer?
The base of my Ultra 2 sits right on top of the Subdude platform(the flat portion).. I had to use 2 as I stated above.

The parts i used are very similar to what the Subdude uses for its isolation but much thicker and more useful for this type of subwoofer.

Gee its real funny how one negative opinion can make so many people start having a go at the people who question the product ( I would question expensive speaker cables as reviewed on Stereophile making the sound better than quality shielded lower priced cables in much the same way as i question this )....Instead of being sarcastic try actually explaining why you think it's so good...Explain to me how this product turns a non musical subwoofer into a musical subwoofer....Yah know it's like play nice time rather than be sarcastic....You'll get more customers for the product by actually explaining in great detail what it is that makes it so good in your opinion rather than just venting some sort of anger by making sarcastic comments.

Believe it or not but i am actually a pretty decent person and if you read some of my old posts you will see this so perhaps cutting me some slack here and just going into some detail about this product and convincing me the old fashioned way rather than shooting me down dead because i questioned how this product could do more than just stop floorboards rattling.....Picture it this way...If i was a customer you wouldn't get all sarcastic if i said i'm skeptical in your shop would you ? No sale if you did...No you would explain to me what makes the product so great...Explain some technical details to me as to how it all works rather than just say it does and end of.

I mean i know it works as far as stopping the floorboards rattling but how on earth does it make a non musical subwoofer suddenly become a very musical subwoofer ?

I offered an apology in the post before this and if you can't accept it and feel the need to be sarcastic....Have fun...Says more about you than it does me and you tend to lose any argument when you resort to such posts as yours as it says you really are insecure about your purchase ( After all if you were truly secure why the need to defend the product by being sarcastic and why not explain why you feel it's so great instead )


I think you're probably right, what you did will probably obtain the same effect as a subdude (but of course I agree, I'm just using a folded up yoga mat). As far as how this achieves tighter bass, I stated my theory of how this was achieved in my room on the previous page.

The parts i used are very similar to what the Subdude uses for its isolation but much thicker and more useful for this type of subwoofer.Perhaps but there's no way to know for certain.

Gee its real funny how one negative opinion can make so many people start having a go at the people who question the product ( I would question expensive speaker cables as reviewed on Stereophile making the sound better than quality shielded lower priced cables in much the same way as i question this )....Why would I? I only defend what I say and most of my comments about cables (with one glaring exception) have been kinda 'tongue in cheek.'

Instead of being sarcastic try actually explaining why you think it's so good...Well, first, I am sorry you took this anyway other than it was intended: a good-natured elbow. It is apparent to me that you understand what is going on even though you seem to march to a different drummer. Second, drawing a conclusion about a commercial product from an experience with a homebrew simulation is not an adequate proof of anything.

Explain to me how this product turns a non musical subwoofer into a musical subwoofer....Why do I need to defend something I didn't say?

Believe it or not but i am actually a pretty decent person and if you read some of my old posts you will see this so perhaps cutting me some slack here and just going into some detail about this product and convincing me the old fashioned way rather than shooting me down dead because i questioned how this product could do more than just stop floorboards rattling.....But that's the point! That is ALL that it does. It is the subjective description of the audible results that separates the posters.

Picture it this way...If i was a customer you wouldn't get all sarcastic if i said i'm skeptical in your shop would you ? I do not have a shop.

I mean i know it works as far as stopping the floorboards rattling but how on earth does it make a non musical subwoofer suddenly become a very musical subwoofer ?

I offered an apology in the post before this and if you can't accept it and feel the need to be sarcastic....Have fun...Says more about you than it does me and you tend to lose any argument when you resort to such posts as yours as it says you really are insecure about your purchase ( After all if you were truly secure why the need to defend the product by being sarcastic and why not explain why you feel it's so great instead )Lighten up, please. You are reading too much into everything.

Lighten up, please. You are reading too much into everything.

Ok.....Sorry for getting a little excited.

I have an AirJordan under each corner of my sub.

Hello "FoxyMulder".

I can appreciate your doubts about the effectiveness of the "Subdude'. We all have subjective opinions and philosophies when it comes to this stuff. Can I produce meter readings before and after the addition of the "Subdude"? No I can't and I don't care to! The bottom line is, I do know the effect it had on my subwoofer's performance how it changed the characteristics of my room's response to the sub's output. The "more musical" description is due to the immediate difference I heard once I placed the sub on the platform. Without any adjustments to the sub's settings and listening to the same music at the same volume, the boominess I was once experiencing was no longer happening. The bass is tighter, more accurate, more balanced. Also, before the "Subdude", I could tell exactly where the bass was coming from (the left side of the room where the sub is positioned). Now, the bass seems to be distributed more evenly and it's harder to detect where the bass is coming from. Can I give you a scientific explantation of the sudden improvement?! Nope! All I know is that it's doing exactly what the Aurelex rep told me it would do.

Regards.

Hello "FoxyMulder".

I can appreciate your doubts about the effectiveness of the "Subdude'. We all have subjective opinions and philosophies when it comes to this stuff. Can I produce meter readings before and after the addition of the "Subdude"? No I can't and I don't care to! The bottom line is, I do know the effect it had on my subwoofer's performance how it changed the characteristics of my room's response to the sub's output. The "more musical" description is due to the immediate difference I heard once I placed the sub on the platform. Without any adjustments to the sub's settings and listening to the same music at the same volume, the boominess I was once experiencing was no longer happening. The bass is tighter, more accurate, more balanced. Also, before the "Subdude", I could tell exactly where the bass was coming from (the left side of the room where the sub is positioned). Now, the bass seems to be distributed more evenly and it's harder to detect where the bass is coming from. Can I give you a scientific explantation of the sudden improvement?! Nope! All I know is that it's doing exactly what the Aurelex rep told me it would do.

Regards.

Regarding localization of the sub that is easy to scientifically explain. The bass coming from the subwoofer was interacting with the floors and therefore walls creating tactile effect that caused you to be able to localize the subwoofers location.

Got my Gramma today and placed under my Epik Castle which I got yesterday. Played WOTW with and without the Gramma. Made a huge difference and looks much better than the packing insulation I was using. Best $50 I've spent on my HT.

I've never tried a Subdude, but I can understand how it can make a pretty dramatic difference by raising the sub off the floor.

You are starting to sound more like troll than someone interested in the Subdude. If you're not interested in trying the Subdude yourself or not able to speak from experience you don't have any value to add to this thread. There are many satisfied Subdude users and it's a cheap tweak that you can try for what it takes to ship it to you.

I can see I'm becoming very popular or unpopular in this thread. If there are many satisfied subdude users in this thread then happy satisfaction to you all. My original post, IF you looked at it, stated that I have no doubt in the testimonies of those who like the product. My personal, and I do mean personal reservation on this item is that looking at the photos it would make my room look ugly with the unit underneath the sub. I like tweaks but not at the cost of the system looking like a horse's derrier. That was my specific reservation and contribution to this thread. If you feel I'm a troll, then cross another bridge.

I have an AirJordan under each corner of my sub.


If you read most of the posts before yours you could have saved some money and bought the subdude. I'm sure AirJordans would look better but maybe your sub might be jumping around. ;)

Got my 15" x 15" Subdude yesterday. Using it with an SB12 plus. Helped reduce some of the muddiness in the low end. Bass sounds cleaner. Slight improvement in resonance control. Not alot of improvement, if any, from stopping bass transfer through the floor though.

Overall though I think it is a good buy for $50.

I've never tried a Subdude, but I can understand how it can make a pretty dramatic difference by raising the sub off the floor.??? It only raises the sub by about 4" and, considering normal ceiling heights and the wavelengths involved, that should make little difference. If you are pursuing such a facility, the ASC SubTrap is more suitable, along with its other features.

??? It only raises the sub by about 4" and, considering normal ceiling heights and the wavelengths involved, that should make little difference. If you are pursuing such a facility, the ASC SubTrap is more suitable, along with its other features.

When I was doing a lot of sub experimentation in an effort to get mine to sound as good as it could, I took off the foot pads and put on spikes that penetrated the carpet, but also raised the sub a bit.........much less then 4 inches, and it made an audible difference. I realize that a SubTrap which raises it a LOT higher would make a bigger difference, but when I put on those spikes, it was more than just a little improvement, but the amount of improvement is a bit subjective, I guess, no?

I guess to me, being that I have been tweeking my systems for so long now, that any improvements are large ones ;)

"Chance favors the prepared mind." Louis PastuerIt's "Pasteur". ;)

I thought the point of having a sub is to make everything rattle.

It's "Pasteur". ;)

Thank you for the correction!

Regarding localization of the sub that is easy to scientifically explain. The bass coming from the subwoofer was interacting with the floors and therefore walls creating tactile effect that caused you to be able to localize the subwoofers location.

Hello "MUCHO"!

Thank you for that the "Scientific" explanation of subwoofer sound localization!
Your knowledge is appreciated!

Regards.

What do you do about spikes on a down firing sub when using the Aurelex Subdude? Do you leave the spikes in and place the sub on the Subdude? Or, do you take the spikes off?

What do you do about spikes on a down firing sub when using the Aurelex Subdude? Do you leave the spikes in and place the sub on the Subdude? Or, do you take the spikes off?

Leave the spikes on!

Hey,

I have a Hsu VTF-1 sub and it’s shaking my ceiling, which makes my projector image vibrate. Do you think the Subdude would work for me?

Hey,

I have a Hsu VTF-1 sub and it’s shaking my ceiling, which makes my projector image vibrate. Do you think the Subdude would work for me?

Refer to "Link #275". Now obviously every room is different, but "JohnNDenver" could attest to the success he's had with the "Subdude" and the problems he had with movement of his projector from the vibration caused by his subs.

Regards.

These things are great on the concrete/outdoor carpet floor in my HT. I am getting three more for my other three subwoofers. Using two subwoofers without using my single subdude from the first subwoofer did not cancel out any LFE that was causing my loose test area on the tile ceiling to buzz.

i have a question for the guys using a subdude.

since it's 15" in width (or length), how do you use it with subwoofers wider than 15"?

does that mean the subwoofer is wider than the subdude? do you guys have pics?

The same way one would use one that is longer. It might actually look better to have a larger subwoofer than the subdude. If the sub is really that large, you could always use two or more if the weight will support it. Here is my first non DIY subwoofer and subdude. Three more of these THX SUB12's and subdudes coming soon but they will not look the exact same with the different finish. The room is about 2200 cubic feet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2575317246_e43007005f_o.jpg

i have a question for the guys using a subdude.

since it's 15" in width (or length), how do you use it with subwoofers wider than 15"?

does that mean the subwoofer is wider than the subdude? do you guys have pics?


You could also use the GRAMMA or Great GRAMMA (http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_gramma/sound_isolation_gramma.asp) if you need something bigger.

thanks guys!

I have a thin layer of foam between the laminate flooring and the concrete subfloor. Would I benefit from a Subdude? I wanted to put one under my MBM-12 if its going to make a difference.

[QUOTE=bori;14341052]I have a thin layer of foam between the laminate flooring and the concrete subfloor. Would I benefit from a Subdude? I wanted to put one under my MBM-12 if its going to make a difference.[/QUOTE

I have subdude's under all my subs - two HSU 3.3's & two MBM-12's.

Bill

[QUOTE=bori;14341052]I have a thin layer of foam between the laminate flooring and the concrete subfloor. Would I benefit from a Subdude? I wanted to put one under my MBM-12 if its going to make a difference.[/QUOTE

I have subdude's under all my subs - two HSU 3.3's & two MBM-12's.

Bill

What type of flooring do you have?

I have a thin layer of foam between the laminate flooring and the concrete subfloor. Would I benefit from a Subdude? I wanted to put one under my MBM-12 if its going to make a difference.

It is going to make a difference the only question is how much. Doesn't cost much to buy and return if you don't feel it is worth it. (You will only pay for return shipping at Sweetwater)

[QUOTE=bsoko2;14343010]

What type of flooring do you have?

Laminate hardwood.

Bill

Who can scientifically give an theory behind the benefit of subdude and great gramma?

I really could not say for sure I noticed extra performance. maybe. My subs were sitting on carpet over concrete, it does seem logical it should be better with my circumstance.

To those of you who own a gramma or subdude, do you think that you could get two functional "subdude"s if it were cut in half? My sub is almost exactly half the size and I thought I could cut one in half, use half, and sell the other to someone who has the same sub as I do .

Has anyone ever done this? What was the result?

Well I ordered the gramma last night and it has already shipped today. I should have it by Saturday. I have an Epik Castle and will give my before/after impressions this weekend and take some pictures. I must say tho, I'm extremely satisfied with the Castle as it is now and don't see how it can get any better. Welll see tho! :p

To those of you who own a gramma or subdude, do you think that you could get two functional "subdude"s if it were cut in half?

I have a Gramma and have seen the Subdude, and I don't know why you wouldn't be able to cut a Gramma in half. You'd have two unfinished edges to patch up (or hide against a wall), since the whole thing is normally carpet-covered. Also one person would get the carrying handle and the other wouldn't :)

I'd work out the other-buyer thing ahead of time though since it may be hard to sell a butchered Gramma. Or just build your own, you can get some pieces of Auralex Platfoam if you really want to mimic the Gramma.

To those of you who own a gramma or subdude, do you think that you could get two functional "subdude"s if it were cut in half? My sub is almost exactly half the size and I thought I could cut one in half, use half, and sell the other to someone who has the same sub as I do .

Has anyone ever done this? What was the result?


I'm curious what kind of sub you have that would only require half a subdude. A subdude is only 15" by 15". My Valor overhangs mine by about 3" on the front and the rear.

Wow! Just got a GRAMMA for my Epik Castle. It is almost perfect size and is the best $50 I spent on audio ever. The annoying buzz I used to get from nearby windows, table, etc. is gone! What an excellent product!

[QUOTE=bori;14346243]

Laminate hardwood.

Bill

Laminate over concrete?

I said the exact same thing earlier, best $50 you'll ever spend on an accessory. I'm sure many of those questioning it's ability to improve the sound have spent more than $50 on tweeks that were inaudible. The simple fact that there are no resonant vibrations in the floor, walls , and windows has a profound effect on the sound. If you have a concrete floor you probably don't need a SubDude but if you have a house like mine the difference is night and day.

I said the exact same thing earlier, best $50 you'll ever spend on an accessory. I'm sure many of those questioning it's ability to improve the sound have spent more than $50 on tweeks that were inaudible. The simple fact that there are no resonant vibrations in the floor, walls , and windows has a profound effect on the sound. If you have a concrete floor you probably don't need a SubDude but if you have a house like mine the difference is night and day.

I have HW on concrete slab and I can tell a difference in the MBMs. For me it cleans up the bass, takes away the boomyness and a tactile sound.

Well I got my Gramma today also and have been watching several of my favorite scenes and must agree that it's the very best 50 bucks I've spent on my home audio. It has increased the output from my Castle and really cleaned up the bass giving it even more punch! Thanks Sweetwater for the excellent product and even better customer service!

I have HW on concrete slab and I can tell a difference in the MBMs. For me it cleans up the bass, takes away the boomyness and a tactile sound.

I have a mbm-12 and just curious what do you mean by tactile sound. Im very interested in this subdude thing:D

Well I got my Gramma today also and have been watching several of my favorite scenes and must agree that it's the very best 50 bucks I've spent on my home audio. It has increased the output from my Castle and really cleaned up the bass giving it even more punch! Thanks Sweetwater for the excellent product and even better customer service!

You're right, all companies should strive to deliver the kind of service that Sweetwater provides. Their customer service and follow up was exceptional.

I have a mbm-12 and just curious what do you mean by tactile sound. Im very interested in this subdude thing:D

Tactile sound is the physical vibration that the sub is sending through the floor it is sitting on. Tactile vibration is the same principal that Buttkickers work on. They imitate bass by vibrating. The biggest difference is your sub is designed to create bass by moving air so any tactile vibrations usually aren't desired and make the sub sound muddy.

Tactile sound is the physical vibration that the sub is sending through the floor it is sitting on. Tactile vibration is the same principal that Buttkickers work on. They imitate bass by vibrating. The biggest difference is your sub is designed to create bass by moving air so any tactile vibrations usually aren't desired and make the sub sound muddy."Tactile sound" does not necessarily refer to physical vibrations. 15Hz is felt, tactily.

Do they really weight 45lbs? And what are its dimensions? The Sweetwater site says 15" x 15" but it doesn't 'look' square in the pictures.

Auralex =23" L x 15" W x 2.75" high
Subdude =15x15 per Sweetwater site

Well I got my Gramma today also and have been watching several of my favorite scenes and must agree that it's the very best 50 bucks I've spent on my home audio. It has increased the output from my Castle and really cleaned up the bass giving it even more punch! Thanks Sweetwater for the excellent product and even better customer service!
Has my interest now. What do you mean increased output?

I said the exact same thing earlier, best $50 you'll ever spend on an accessory. I'm sure many of those questioning it's ability to improve the sound have spent more than $50 on tweeks that were inaudible. The simple fact that there are no resonant vibrations in the floor, walls , and windows has a profound effect on the sound. If you have a concrete floor you probably don't need a SubDude but if you have a house like mine the difference is night and day.

So pretty much if you use a subdude/gramma on 12"x12" tile, that is like sitting on concrete when properly placed. The gramma will not be beneficial?

Auralex =23" L x 15" W x 2.75" high
Subdude =15x15 per Sweetwater site:confused:

So how big is it? Are you saying the Sweetwater site is incorrect or are you showing me the measurements for the Auralex Gramma?

The Subdude is 45lbs and the Gramma, although bigger, is only 35lbs (as best I can tell from the sources I have found), BTW.

Whhhhaaaat are you smoking err reading?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA/specs/#anchor

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDude
Dunno on the weight but I doubt they are that heavy?? A full sheet of ply wood is 45lbs depending on type.????

Whhhhaaaat are you smoking err reading?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA/specs/#anchorYou said "Auralex", not Gramma. Both products are made by Auralex. ;)

Auralex =23" L x 15" W x 2.75" high
Subdude =15x15 per Sweetwater site



Dunno on the weight but I doubt they are that heavy?? A full sheet of ply wood is 45lbs depending on type.????45lbs for the Subdude and 35lbs for the Gramma is what I have been able to find online.

Hmmm maybe I should stop smoking :). Dunno on weight I can't find it.

I own a Subdude and it's no 45 pounds. Five pounds, maybe, but not 45.

BTW---I'd like to echo the previous comments for the great quality of Sweetwater.com's customer support.

As mentioned by others, I think the primary benefit of the Subdude is that it decouples the subwoofer from the floor that then reduces resonance frequencies (unwanted vibrations) generated by the floor and connecting walls. Such resonances continue to vibrate for many milliseconds after the output of the frequency from the sub, which delay then smears or "muddies" the sound of the original tone. However, the sound waves by themselves can cause the floors, walls, and other items to vibrate, so the Subdude will not solve all of your
resonance problems and it will not solve room nodes (certain frequencies are amplied by the constructive interference of sound waves in the room, with each room being different), but it can result in a very obvious improvement in most rooms.

Using a test mic and the EQ Wizard software, I was able to measure a nice reduction in unwanted vibrations as evidenced by a "waterfall" graph that charts frequency response and time (e.g. how long does a particular frequency continue to resonate). The Subdude clearly eliminated some serious object resonances at 40 and 60 Hz - especially rattling glass on my fire place doors.

I would also agree that you would likely not see any improvement with the Subdude if your sub sits on a carpeted, concrete slab floor.

Don't expect miracles, and you should still use a test CD to find and eliminate resonances and nodes in your room; but for $50 the Subdude is, in my opinion, a high-value tweak to your system.

Do they really weight 45lbs? And what are its dimensions? The Sweetwater site says 15" x 15" but it doesn't 'look' square in the pictures.


I just measured my SubDude, it's actual measurements are 15.25" X 15", so it's practically square. There's no way it weighs 45 or 35lbs.

I am considering on getting either a subdude or a GRAMMA.

Here is my question. My Sub measures about 17" in lengh, the subdude measures 15" in length and the GRAMMA measures 24" in length.

I am wondering what would be better in purposes of isolation, let my woofer hang over an inch on the front or back of the subdude, or let there be an excess of 3.5 inches in front and back of the Sub with the GRAMMA.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

Like I had mentioned earlier, my sub is 16.5" X 21" and works fine on my SubDude.

I am considering on getting either a subdude or a GRAMMA.

Here is my question. My Sub measures about 17" in lengh, the subdude measures 15" in length and the GRAMMA measures 24" in length.

I am wondering what would be better in purposes of isolation, let my woofer hang over an inch on the front or back of the subdude, or let there be an excess of 3.5 inches in front and back of the Sub with the GRAMMA.

Any thoughts?As long as the sub's feet fit on it, the overhang (or not) is irrelevant.

How much benefit I can get if use the SubDeude or Grama on tile floor to support the subs? I feel there is some sound delay (the sound exists while I think the sound should have stopped a little earlier).

I have two subs which have a base 22.5"x18" and the SubDude is too small. Also, two pieces will cost $100. Will it work in the same way if I found some (proper) pads in homedepot and put them under the feet of subs?

How much benefit I can get if use the SubDeude or Grama on tile floor to support the subs? I feel there is some sound delay (the sound exists while I think the sound should have stopped a little earlier).

I have two subs which have a base 22.5"x18" and the SubDude is too small. Also, two pieces will cost $100. Will it work in the same way if I found some (proper) pads in homedepot and put them under the feet of subs?Is the tile on a slab or on a beamed wood floor? No advantage in the former case.

Is the tile on a slab or on a beamed wood floor? No advantage in the former case.

I am not sure what's underneath the tile. It's on the first floor. It may be some kind of pre-made concrete or just plain cement on flat dirt and tiles were laid later on them. It's highly unlikely that wood is underneath the tile.

If the subfloor is solid and not beamed or sprung or otherwise compliant, there's no real need for a SubDude.

If the subfloor is solid and not beamed or sprung or otherwise compliant, there's no real need for a SubDude.

Thank you. I have a feeling that my subs are sitting on "solid floor" and are quite stable.

Thank you. I have a feeling that my subs are sitting on "solid floor" and are quite stable.It is not just an issue of stability. The issue is whether the physical vibrations of the sub can excite sympathetic vibrations in the floor surface. In one of my systems, that was certainly the case as the sub sat on a floor supported only by spaced beams and, there, the SubDude(s), made a significant improvement. In my other system, the parquet flooring sits on a solid reinforced concrete slab and, there, no SubDude seems warranted.

Kal,

I agree to a certain extent with your observation regarding why anyone would need a "Subdude".
But, I believe that the use of the "Subdude" is subjective to the room's environment (make up). To limit the "Subdude's" effectiveness to rooms only where the floor is made of wood or being supported by beams would in my opinion also limit the possibilities of solution for those looking for eliminating unwanted resonance. Not saying that the product is the consumate answer but, an example is my room, which is on the bottom floor (basement) and is concrete slab, of course covered by matting and carpeting. Prior to the usage of the "Subdude", I was experiencing rattles, boominess, and buzzing. Now, granted, this room has 3 doors, a large window and an overhead florescent light. And without a doubt, the rattles and buzzing was coming from those areas. Once I placed the "Subdude" under my sub, no rattles, no buzzing and the boominess was eliminated. Basically, the platform addressed my issues. So, there are times when the Subdude can be a solution regardless of the type of floor.
Just an opinion.

Regards

I agree to a certain extent with your observation regarding the why anyone would need a "Subdude".
But, I believe that the use of the "Subdude" is subjective to the room's environment (make up). To limit the "Subdude's" effectiveness to rooms only where the floor is made of wood or being supported by beams would in my opinion also limit the possibilities of solution for those looking for eliminating unwanted resonance. Not saying that the product is the consumate answer but, an example is my room, which is on the bottom floor (basement) and is concrete slab, of course covered by matting and carpeting. Prior to the usage of the "Subdude", I was experiencing rattles, boominess, and buzzing. Now, granted, this room has 3 doors, a large window and an overhead florescent light. And without a doubt, the rattles and buzzing was coming from those areas. Once I placed the "Subdude" under my sub, no rattles, no buzzing and the boominess was eliminated. Basically, the platform addressed my issues. So, there are times when the Subdude can be a solution regardless of the type of floor.
Just an opinion.

RegardsOK. Surprise to me.

OK. Surprise to me.
This could be psycho-acoustics, but I had a similar experience as well. I have Mirage s12 which has a downward firing port and I thought the sound was a little tight with less vibrations on a cement slab covered with carpet.

This could be psycho-acoustics, but I had a similar experience as well. I have Mirage s12 which has a downward firing port and I thought the sound was a little tight with less vibrations on a cement slab covered with carpet.OK. There is also the subtle effect of raising the sub by those few inches.

Kal,

I agree to a certain extent with your observation regarding why anyone would need a "Subdude".
But, I believe that the use of the "Subdude" is subjective to the room's environment (make up). To limit the "Subdude's" effectiveness to rooms only where the floor is made of wood or being supported by beams would in my opinion also limit the possibilities of solution for those looking for eliminating unwanted resonance. Not saying that the product is the consumate answer but, an example is my room, which is on the bottom floor (basement) and is concrete slab, of course covered by matting and carpeting. Prior to the usage of the "Subdude", I was experiencing rattles, boominess, and buzzing. Now, granted, this room has 3 doors, a large window and an overhead florescent light. And without a doubt, the rattles and buzzing was coming from those areas. Once I placed the "Subdude" under my sub, no rattles, no buzzing and the boominess was eliminated. Basically, the platform addressed my issues. So, there are times when the Subdude can be a solution regardless of the type of floor.
Just an opinion.

Regards

+1, I have HW on slab and found the subdudes removed what I call a tactile sound my MBMs were making. Tried a dorr mat first with no improvements.

+1, I have HW on slab and found the subdudes removed what I call a tactile sound my MBMs were making. Tried a dorr mat first with no improvements.

I just got my Subdude and placed under my MBM-12. I also have laminate over concrete slab. I will give you my opinion once I watch a couple of movies.

I just put my new pair of Outlaw LFM-1 EX subs on Auralex Grammas, to get them up off the heavy carpeting. The floor is wood (it is a second story), and the Grammas do an excellent job of decoupling the subs from the floor and frame of the building. This helped reduce the conduction of vibrations through the floor, but I don't think it otherwise helped the sound of the subs.

To be fair, the HT room has bass traps in all 4 corners, and one along the side wall, so it sounded pretty good before the Grammas arrived.

If a sub has spikes, would it be better to detach them with a SubDude? Anyone know?

I just wonder if the decoupling qualities would be defeated with spikes.

If a sub has spikes, would it be better to detach them with a SubDude? Anyone know?

I just wonder if the decoupling qualities would be defeated with spikes.

Cannot see why that wouldn't work but the spikes would become optional, imho.

I like the tactile feeling from the floor that I get only with very low FR's at high level from some selected movies, and seldom from any type of music. This[the tactile] helps to make the bass more believable regarding the size of objects on screen, or just simply adds to the "drama". While I have no issues with "boominess" some furniture parts do rattle which is unwanted indeed.

Cannot see why that wouldn't work but the spikes would become optional, imho.

Thanks Kal.

I ordered one after reading all the positive reviews. Rarely, is the acclaim so high when discussing a tweak, moreso one so inexpensive relative to the world of audio gear.

Will this sub benefit from the use of this subdude thing? Thanks.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/davidtr1/IMG_1147.jpg

Will this sub benefit from the use of this subdude thing? Thanks.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/davidtr1/IMG_1147.jpg

Absolutely! But I would place the sub and Subdude on the floor.

Regards.

Subdude didn't do much for my sub. Green is with Subdude, red without. Sub is SVS PB10. i have a rug that covers most of my room and i'm on the 5th floor of a 1920s walkup; so maybe it's concrete floor, i dunno.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.7a7234207e.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=49&i=aurdn1.jpg)

waterfalls: without subdude; with subdude; overlay of both.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3481/noaurlsa3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3481/noaurlsa3.aeae43ecfc.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=186&i=noaurlsa3.jpg)

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/929/aurlaa1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/929/aurlaa1.a04994f1c0.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=174&i=aurlaa1.jpg)

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7161/bthnz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7161/bthnz5.2e17ff089b.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=186&i=bthnz5.jpg)

You guys have pics of your subs with the subdude or gramma?

I agree that based on your waterfall charts, you're not seeing any improvement. With my waterfall chart, the node and ringing at 40Hz were noticably reduced, but I clearly had something buzzing at that frequency. You must have a solid room.

Again, I think the Subdude is most effective at reducing resonance frequencies of objects in the room that are in one way or another coupled to the floor. I think the Subdude will do little or nothing with the constructive and destructive interfence of low-frequency sound waves.

However, as someone else pointed out, for $50 it is worth the cost to experiment to see what it does for your own set up. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't hesitiate to get the Subdude -- can't say that about everything I buy.

I like the tactile feeling from the floor that I get only with very low FR's at high level from some selected movies, and seldom from any type of music...

Lest you think I'm a purist, I have 4 Buttkickers in my seats for that. Where a movie has these effects, they work great.

I'd suspect my before and after to be very similar as well if I ever charted it. My room falls in the extremely good to excellent category as far as audio is concerned.

I just got my Auralex Gramma for my SVS PB12-NSD which is on wooden floor boards over concrete. First I'll say I'm pretty skeptical of audio improvements as alot of it's VERY subjetive (ppl tend to either imagine things or over-exagerate the improvements)...but I have to say the Auralex does make a noticeble improvement on the sound, the sub sounds less boomy and abit tighter :)

Alright, so I would get a subdude but it is too small. A great gramma is more fitting for my needs, it is 30" L x 19" W. My sub is 31" L x 20" W. Is it okay to have an inch overhang on both length and width? It's an Epik Caliber by the way.

sure, overhang isn't a problem...

Oh, by the way, does anybody know of any places that'll sell such things but in a B&M store?

Yes the WoofaFlex is a must have,makes subs sound 1000 X better ! Yeah I am serious. :p

[QUOTE=union1411;14460402]Subdude didn't do much for my sub. Green is with Subdude, red without. Sub is SVS PB10. i have a rug that covers most of my room and i'm on the 5th floor of a 1920s walkup; so maybe it's concrete floor, i dunno.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.7a7234207e.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=49&i=aurdn1.jpg)

That's a good way to tell if it works or not. Actually measure the sound. Good job. I've been debating on adding one on my tiled floor. This helps a lot. 3/8 Tile with backer board, thinset is like a concrete floor. So maybe I will pass. This was the most helpful post here ....for me thanks. :)

Oh, by the way, does anybody know of any places that'll sell such things but in a B&M store?

yes, many places sell auralex products... guitar center, etc.

sweetwater is a good place to get them online... if you don't mind the "follow up" phone calls trying to get you to buy more stuff...

yes, many places sell auralex products... guitar center, etc.

sweetwater is a good place to get them online... if you don't mind the "follow up" phone calls trying to get you to buy more stuff...

I'm not sure what "follow up" sales calls you're talking about. I ordered a subdude back in April from Sweetwater. I received one confirmation call after I ordered it, and one call a few days after it was shipped to make sure I got it okay. I've never received another phone call from them.

But yes, there are many B&M stores that sell this stuff. Easiest thing to do is go >>here<< (http://www.auralex.com/dealers/) and enter your zip code and it will tell you every dealer that's near you.

What is the difference between Subdude and Subdude HD?

What is the difference between Subdude and Subdude HD?

Well clearly the Subdude HD is in Hi-Definition and just the plain ol' Subdude, which I have, is only in Standard-Def. :)

Looking at the on-line descriptions, both items are the same size but the HD model is covered with "cleanable black velour." And, of course, costs more.

So unless you're someone who has a need for "cleanable black velour", I'm sure you'll be happy with the regular Subdude, as I am.

I'm not sure what "follow up" sales calls you're talking about. I ordered a subdude back in April from Sweetwater. I received one confirmation call after I ordered it, and one call a few days after it was shipped to make sure I got it okay. I've never received another phone call from them.

But yes, there are many B&M stores that sell this stuff. Easiest thing to do is go >>here<< (http://www.auralex.com/dealers/) and enter your zip code and it will tell you every dealer that's near you.

i received no less than 6 phone calls from them... it's no biggie to me, i only mentioned it because i know it irritates some people...

great service and pricing though...

I have hard wood floors layed on top of a concrete slabe, will a Subdude help much? I don't know if this matters but I have 19 foot ceilings.

i received no less than 6 phone calls from them... it's no biggie to me, i only mentioned it because i know it irritates some people...

great service and pricing though...

Wow! I wouldn't like that at all, I guess YMMV.

But I was very happy with their service also, and the price was very reasonable I thought.

I have hard wood floors layed on top of a concrete slabe, will a Subdude help much? I don't know if this matter but I have 19 foot ceilings.

Really, from what I've read about others experiences throughout this thread, I'd say the only way to know for sure is to try it out and see. It's a relatively minor investment if it helps at all.

My advice would be to buy it from sweetwater (or somewhere local that accepts returns) and return it if you don't hear any difference.

I'm planning on getting a GRAMMA to use under my VTF-2 Mk3. This will be on a carpet covered wood floor. I was wondering, how much does the foam material compress with 80lbs of sub on top of it? Also, should I use the rubber ends for the sub's spiked feet or just the spikes directly onto the GRAMMA?

Thanks.

You all missed the best part of post #386!

"Do fish get thirsty? Take the dumb test now!"

Are there some chaeaper options available too?

I stumbled on this thread by chance recently and it has really grabbed my attention.

I was going to buy one of these but I realized I already have some of the Auralex PlatFoam left over from about a year ago. I had purchased a sheet of this stuff to isolate my XBOX 360 which sits on a glass shelf. I only needed a section large enough to match the dimensions of the XBOX so I had the majority of the sheet left over. The only difference is mine is 1" thick instead of the 2" thickness they use on the SubDude/GRAMMA isolation platforms. I also still had some Studiofoam left over from when I applied it to my walls. So, I decided it would be pretty economical to build one of these things considering the material I had on hand. The only thing I was missing was the MDF, which I assumed I could grab pretty cheap at Lowe's. Unfortunately, the smallest size they had a Lowe's was 8' x 4' and that wasn't happening - I didn't have the wife's minivan or the desire to buy a sheet that large so I could cut out a 21" x 24.5" section (the dimensions of my sub). I did find a 3/4" sheet of birch lament that came very close (24" x 24") to the dimensions of my sub so I grabbed it and headed home.

I cut four 4" x 24" strips of the PlatFoam out of the sheet. I used some of the spray adhesive I had left over to permanently join two strips of the PlatFoam together and get the same 2" thickness used on the SubDude/GRAMMA. I also used two 12" x 12" Studiofoam panels in the middle section of the platform (like on the SubDude/GRAMMA). I did not cut the wood to exact dimensions, cover the wood, or permanently attach the foam to the bottom since this was intended to be a quick experiment. My plan was test it out and either finish it or take the wood back to Lowe's depending on the outcome.

I took measurements with REW before and after placing the sub on the isolation platform so I could have data to prove or disprove any changes I perceived in my listening tests. I also listened to a combination of music and scenes from movies that I was already familiar with. They are scenes I use to demo my system for people.

I made a couple interesting observations during this exercise. First, I did notice a significant reduction in vibrations and resonance in the floor and a mild reduction in the walls. The second thing I noticed was a bigger than expected gain in output volume from the sub when it was on the platform. I’m not sure why this occurs but my best guess is the hard wood plank is substantially more reflective than the carpet and thick pad the sub is normally sitting on. A second contributing factor could be the space between the woofer and the floor/platform due to the sub sinking into the carpet/pad.

I did NOT notice any change in the characteristics of the subwoofer after placing it on the platform. It did not sound any tighter or more musical to my ears. The removal of the vibrations/resonance in my floors were very noticeable and welcome but I could discern no difference in the tonal qualities of the sub.

Here are the graphs from before and after placing the sub on the platform. I was a little surprised to see the larger dip at ~30Hz after placing the sub on the platform. All in all, not a whole lot of difference.

Before
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/before.jpg
After
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/after.jpg
Overlay
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/overlay.jpg

Bottom Line:
While I didn’t notice any change in the sound quality of the actual subwoofer, the reduction/elimination of the resonance from the floor vibrations was very noticeable and could be perceived as a less “muddy” sound in the room when playing intense LFE passages. The floorboards were essentially adding sound to the environment and it is a noticeable improvement after it has been removed. It is worth noting I do not feel any reduction in the tactical impact of the sub. This sub hits really hard and extends pretty low. Nothing has changed in that regard. The fact this platform has removed the audible vibrations without any tactical reduction is kind of surprising the more I think about it.

I will trim the board down to match the width of the sub and do something to make it look nice. I haven’t decided what I want to do for ascetics yet. I’m thinking about wrapping the whole contraption, including the foam, with a lightweight black fabric. Or I might paint/stain the wood and use some material as a valance to cover the foam. Or I could….Oh, I don’t know yet so I will leave it alone until I come up with something…:)

Additional Note: I bypassed the BFD filters and ran another series of measurements and then applied new filters to compensate for the extra dip at 30Hz prior to my listening tests.

Here is some information on the equipment, environment, and material I used during the evaluation.

Environment:

11’ x 15’6” room on the first floor
Standard wood floors covered with carpet and a thick carpet pad (note: the floors are pretty “springy” in this room.)
Drywall walls/ceiling
Absorption on the wall behind the speakers and on the side walls at first reflection points
Bass traps in front corners – floor to ceiling



Equipment:

AVR – Onkyo TX-SR705
Speakers – Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 mains, CC-370 center, ADP-370 surrounds and back surrounds
Sub – Elemental Designs A5 – 350 (Crossover @ 50Hz
Blueray player – PS3
HD-DVD – Toshiba HD-A35
DVD player – I used my XBOX 360 (Media Center Extender mode) for playback of all clips marked listed as DVD. I have all of these clips ripped and saved on the hard drive on a computer running Windows Vista Media Center. I stream them with the My Movies Media Center Plug-in.
SACD/DVD-A player – Marantz DV6001
Sub PEQ - Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro [FBQ249]
Measurement software - Room EQ Wizard (REW) Version 4.00 build 673


Demo Material: I listened to each of these before and after placing the sub on the platform.
Music:

Babylon Sisters - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
Hey Nineteen - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
Gaucho - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
Summer Fling - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
Monsoon - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
As You Wish - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
Hotel California - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
New Kid in Town - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
Life in the Fast Lane - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
Victim of Love - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
Snowbound - Donald Fagen/Kamakiriad (DVD-A)
Comin' Home Baby - David Sanborn/Timeagain (DVD-A)
Man from Mars - David Sanborn/Timeagain (DVD-A)
Rest in Peace - Extreme/III Sides to Every Story (CD)
Color Me Blind - Extreme/III Sides to Every Story (CD)


Movie Scenes:

Flight of the Pheonix - The crash landing (Blueray | DTS HD-MA)
Incredibles - The scene where the missles are chasing and then hits the plane carying the mom and the kids (DVD | DD EX)
Master in Command - The first naval battle (DVD | DD)
Matrix Revolutions - When Neo meets with the machine "face" to discuss peace (DVD | DD)
Finding Nemo - Daria glass tapping (DVD | DD EX)
Star Wars: Episode I - Amadella's <sp?> shiny silver ship landing / decoy bombed (DVD | DD)
Star Wars: Episode I - Pod race (DVD | DD)
U-571 - Depth charges (HD-DVD| DTS)
Cloverfield - From the point they're on the roof right before the SOL head comes crashing in until the thing is past. (Blueray | TrueHD)
Cloverfield - When the military first attacks the thing. (Blueray | TrueHD)


Other:

THX - Cavalcade (DVD | DD EX)
THX - T2 (DVD | DD)
THX - TEX (DVD | DD)
THX - TEX 2 [Moo Can] (DVD | DD)
THX - Amazing Life (DVD | DD)
Dolby Digital - City (DVD | DVD)
Dolby Digital - City Redux (DVD | DVD)
Dolby Digital - Rain (DVD | DVD)
Windows Media 9 - Factory (DD)
Windows Media 9 Series - Pinball (DD)

FWIW, here are is the frequency response, LF Decay, and waterfall for the sub blended with the mains and BFD filters applied.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/blendedwithmains.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/blendedwithmainslfdecay.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/RDLOH/HT/Sub%20Isolation%20Platform/blendedwithmainswaterfall.jpg

Nice work

Thanks for the graphs. This thread sounds like a commercial for this product and for a certain company that sells it sometimes.

I took measurements with REW before and after placing the sub on the isolation platform so I could have data to prove or disprove any changes I perceived in my listening tests. I also listened to a combination of music and scenes from movies that I was already familiar with. They are scenes I use to demo my system for people.Thanks for the detailed testing and posting the results. It's nice to see some data that corresponds with user reports.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to repeat some of these tests using tennis balls underneath the sub in place of your homemade platform? I've issued this challenge in the past, but nobody has ever taken it up. It's based off of an old Stereophile-suggested tweak. It would be nice to see a data-based comparison.

Scott

Thanks for the graphs. This thread sounds like a commercial for this product and for a certain company that sells it sometimes.
True but the few graph I like. You get to see the difference with and without the gramma. Better than man it sounds twice as good ( because i spent $50) ect...... Imo if the graph doesn't change.. well in your room it doesn't make a difference. That not a good sales pitch

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Thanks for the detailed testing and posting the results. It's nice to see some data that corresponds with user reports.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to repeat some of these tests using tennis balls underneath the sub in place of your homemade platform? I've issued this challenge in the past, but nobody has ever taken it up. It's based off of an old Stereophile-suggested tweak. It would be nice to see a data-based comparison.

Scott
I will offer a definite maybe on the tennis ball request. :) I'm not real familiar with that one though so I may need a little more info. Do you cut them and place them over the feet or remove the feet and rest the sub on the tennis balls? I wouldn't think the former would provide a whole lot of isolation and I'd be a little concerned with the stability of the sub in the latter (my sub is on the larger side in both dimensions and weight). :eek:

To be honest, I'm not sure how worthwhile the exercise would be though. There shouldn't be any difference in the charts as there is nothing to act as a trap in this configuration. The primary reason I wanted to do this experiment with the platform was to determine if something as small as a 2 3/4" lift, combined with the absorption properties of the Auralex foam products could exhibit any bass trapping characteristics. The results of the tests I ran show it does not - in my room at least. :)

About the only additional information I would hope to glean from the tennis ball test would be how good it is at reducing the vibration induced resonance in my floor boards. The most telling results therefore would be highly subjective.

Oh and BTW, I hope my post didn't come off as a "sales pitch" or a slam of the product. My apologies if it did. My intent was simply to determine if it made any difference - in my room - and report my findings.

Oh and BTW, I hope my post didn't come off as a "sales pitch" or a slam of the product. My apologies if it did. My intent was simply to determine if it made any difference - in my room - and report my findings.

Exactly and you did a good job

Thanks

I will offer a definite maybe on the tennis ball request. :) I'm not real familiar with that one though so I may need a little more info. Do you cut them and place them over the feet or remove the feet and rest the sub on the tennis balls? I wouldn't think the former would provide a whole lot of isolation and I'd be a little concerned with the stability of the sub in the latter (my sub is on the larger side in both dimensions and weight). :eek:

To be honest, I'm not sure how worthwhile the exercise would be though. There shouldn't be any difference in the charts as there is nothing to act as a trap in this configuration. The primary reason I wanted to do this experiment with the platform was to determine if something as small as a 2 3/4" lift, combined with the absorption properties of the Auralex foam products could exhibit any bass trapping characteristics. The results of the tests I ran show it does not - in my room at least. :)

About the only additional information I would hope to glean from the tennis ball test would be how good it is at reducing the vibration induced resonance in my floor boards. The most telling results therefore would be highly subjective.Thanks for considering it. It involved placing plain tennis balls (not cut in half) under the subwoofer (either under under the feet or just on the bottom of the subwoofer). Depending on the type of subwoofer, this could be a problem.

The idea was for it to act as a cheap, but effective, decoupling device.

If you do feel like undertaking it, I'd be curious to see the results.

Scott

I ordered one from sweetwater.com on Wednesday and received it on Friday (Best free shipping ever) and this thing is amazing. I watched Iron Man on Blu-ray and the bass is so much better and almost all the rattling I used to have is gone. Sweet product.

They are also useful for your mains.

I can't believe there are actual people on THIS forum that want LESS bass.

I can't believe there are actual people on THIS forum that want LESS bass.

I don't think there are. I think what you're seeing is people who want BETTER bass.

I have a velo sub 18" long and 15" wide.
Subdude will be a little small 15x15 and gramma might be a little big 23x15.

i dont like the idea of anything protruding out of my sub , so i dont like the gramma idea but than i think subdude may not be effective enough as it will be small as compared to the sub. my sub is a forward firing

can you guys suggest what should i get, subdude or gramma

I have a velo sub 18" long and 15" wide.
Subdude will be a little small 15x15 and gramma might be a little big 23x15.

i dont like the idea of anything protruding out of my sub , so i dont like the gramma idea but than i think subdude may not be effective enough as it will be small as compared to the sub. my sub is a forward firing
It doesn't matter if the subdude is small, it will still work as long as it is big enough to hold the subwoofer without falling off.

It doesn't matter if the subdude is small, it will still work as long as it is big enough to hold the subwoofer without falling off.

True, I use a SubDude with my Epik Valor which is 16.5"x21". It holds up fine. In fact you'd hardly notice it was even there.

I saw a couple of mentions of use with the SVS cylinders but most if not all were saying they had a gramma/subdude on order and no follow up.

I have a pC12+ on preorder and want to know if the subdude (15x15) can fully and stabley support one of the svs cylinders.

I don't care if it improves SQ because I'm mostly looking to reduce the sound/vibration my downstairs neighbors recieve.

Will the 15x15 subdude work for an svs cylinder (16" dia)?

Thanks guys. Will post the question to the SVS thread as well.

I saw a couple of mentions of use with the SVS cylinders but most if not all were saying they had a gramma/subdude on order and no follow up.

I have a pC12+ on preorder and want to know if the subdude (15x15) can fully and stabley support one of the svs cylinders.

I don't care if it improves SQ because I'm mostly looking to reduce the sound/vibration my downstairs neighbors recieve.

Will the 15x15 subdude work for an svs cylinder (16" dia)?

Thanks guys. Will post the question to the SVS thread as well.

Yea - I had a 20-39 PC+ sitting on a subdude no problem. Works great

Thanks Mucho

I picked up a cheap sub while waiting for my pair of ULW10's from av123 and found that the Auralex GRAMMA worked wonders so I ordered a SubDudeHD since my pair of ulw10's will be here Monday. But I was wondering if anyone got a subdude and would rather have a GRAMMA. I'd be willing to do a trade for a Subdude (prefereably a subdudeHD so it matches) My GRAMMA is only 2 weeks old.

What's the difference between a Subdude and SubdudeHD?

What's the difference between a Subdude and SubdudeHD?

color of carpet. subdude has a more rugged gray/charcoal where subdudehd is black velour

I just added Grammas under my dual av123 MFW-15's. I have wood floors and they really helped improve the bass. There is less room resonance and the bass is tighter.

would one work for an epik conquest on its side?
36 x 30

would one work for an epik conquest on its side?
36 x 30

Great Gramma would work better.

I got two Grammas but intend to sit my Conquest upright. Pick it up Thursday.

If anyone is still reading this thread I thought I would share with you my homemade subdude. I cut a platform out of some extra granite (leftover from having the kitchen counters done). Then I went to Micheals Arts and Crafts Store and bought two 1/4"x9"x12" foam pads for $1.00 ea. Then I went to Home Depot and bought one piece of foam pipe insulation sleave. I glued the two foam pads to one side of the granite (the side I'll set my sub on). I then cut two pieces of the insulation tube (the length of the longest side) and used these to sit on top of the carpet with the granite platform resting on top of them (compressing them somewhat). I actually got very good results. The bass seems smoother and more natural sounding, no booming. It definitely cut down on floor related vibrations. Sometime soon I'm going to run the Audussey auto set up again to see if it made any changes within those aspects, mainly volume (just curious). Love this forum lots of outstanding info. Peace.

I've read though the entire thread, but I haven't seen many people with cylinder subs respond with feedback.

My SVS PC12-Plus is scheduled to be delivered on Wednesday and I'm considering purchasing a SubDude HD for it. The base of the sub is 16'' diameter, but the SubDude is 15x15. Will this be ok?

The sub will be on the second floor of a two story home, so I'd like to neutralize any unnecessary shaking of the home. I know the sound quality effect is heavily debated, but I'm not as concerned with this factor since the SVS should be great regardless.

my subs came with spike feet and discs, they also came with rubber feet. Has anyone tried using feet and a subdude? what feet should I use or should I use no feet?

I thought I would share with you my homemade subdude.
Sounds interesting. Can you post some photos?

I have the Gramma under my SVS 12isd sub. Front to back the Gramma is longer than the sub, However, on right/left side about a 1" overhang. My issue with this is; the sub in NOT dead solid. It wiggles a little bit. -it's not the floor,they sit on a granite slab and witha 50# art piece on top. I do not like that it "wiggles" slightly.
I doubt if this causes any SQ issues and it's behind a loveseat. Any thoughts on how to stabilize it? I even sent a email to them- no reply.
DAB

I have the Gramma under my SVS 12isd sub. Front to back the Gramma is longer than the sub, However, on right/left side about a 1" overhang. My issue with this is; the sub in NOT dead solid. It wiggles a little bit. -it's not the floor,they sit on a granite slab and witha 50# art piece on top. I do not like that it "wiggles" slightly.
What do you mean? When you play sound through it you can see it wobbling? Or is it just that when you push it, it moves easily without much force so you are worried about it falling off the Gramma?

no it doesn't move{but i haven't really looked] while play back. and no it will not slide off the Gramma or cause the art piece to fall off.. [The Sub]It just isn't rock solid the way it is when it is directly on the floor. Like i said it has a slight wobble/movement. If this the norm with other sub's & Gramma that is the nature of the beast. or is it a construction isssue...
db

Sounds interesting. Can you post some photos?

Sorry my camera is out of commission right now. I'll see what I can do though, maybe try to borrow one.

Would a Gramma be useful at improving sound quality of an AV123 MFW-15 subwoofer in a basement home theatre with thin carpet over concrete floor?

Thanks.

search this thread. over concrete doesn't help much if at all. But you won't suffer the problems over concrete to need a subdue. Most ppl who like there's have there sub on wood floors. Search this thread there's graphs that show the differences.

wow this sounds great - which one do I need for the SVS PD10 sub?
Do they come pre cut or do we have to cut to fit subwoofer?

Got a Great Gramma to go under my Conquest and it made a significant improvment. Glad I read this thread.

wow this sounds great - which one do I need for the SVS PD10 sub?
Do they come pre cut or do we have to cut to fit subwoofer?

You need the subdude and no you don't have to cut anything. I have a SVS 20-39PCi. It just fits, but it works great for me. (hardwood floors in an 80 year old house. My sub is in the front of the house, our bedroom is in the back of the house (about 50 ft. away) my wife use to complain when I watched movies when she was in bed, because things in the bedroom would rattle. Now there is no rattle at all, bass is tighter too.

Beats me Kal. I thought it would not affect the walls as our walls, ceiling, floors are all fully concrete. But it is very obvious that the floors is vibrating very slightly when my ultra is on the floor directly instead of the gramma. Thinking about this, could it be because of the ceremic tiles? Although it is concrete, I have ceremic tiles over it.

Oliver

To correct this, its not concrete. Its not reinforced concrete. Its built by bricks will concrete overtop. I'm from Sing as well, and i'm sure you dont understand when we say concrete slap here. YOU CANT VIBRATE A CONCRETE SLAP WITH A SUBWOOFER. Physics dont lie.

Absolutly sure, I was here during parts of the installation. There's a 1/2" expansion gap
where ever the flooring could possibly touch anything to allow for movement. Maybe it's a
California thing to install this way, it will definitly be a pain to remove.

Geee.... i dont think you understand the physics here. Any contractor knows that you cant put solid hardwood on concrete. It has to be a float floor. Thus you cant "bond" hardwood to a concrete. This has NOThing with the expansion gap. I challenge you to call all the contractors and ask them if its correct or not.

If you bonded an expanable material to a solid material, you should know what would happen. Thats right they break apart.

Get to know better than seeing with your eyes and assume.

Oh you can make this yourself easily altho i dont know if its worth your time. However living up here i dont get to have free shipping. And the shipping from Sweetwater is outrageously high.

After examining subdude in person (one of my friend has one), i brought it to a local company who dealt with sound isolation for manufacturing facilities and contruction sites. They have this exact same foam. In fact they show me all the products and they say they have some even better for bigger vibrating machine (i told them i'm in the industry lol). In the end i bought bunch of the foams for $100 bucks which has enough to make several subdudes with mdf.

Moral of the story is if you're like me stuck with high shipping cost, you can check local company whos specialized in sound isolation for big machineries. They may have this material available.

I'm slowly gathering the materials to build my own subdude for a HSU VTF-2. So far I have the firm packing foam that I got from work and all I need is a piece of MDF. I might go to a car audio shop and see if they can cut me a piece for a small fee. Does home depot sell small sheets of this stuff? As far as the carpet on the board goes, is it purely cosmetic or does it provide some sort of functionality?

Thanks.

So glad I found this thread last week. I ordered my Subdude last Monday evening from Sweetwater. It shipped on Tuesday (FREE SHIPPING!!!) and arrived here on Thursday. Have to say I'm (and more importantly, my wife) very impressed. Before using the Subdude, the pictures on the wall right next to the sub would move and we would constantly have to straighten them. You could also here the picture frames vibrating on the wall. Also, our master bath is on the other side of the same wall and the mirrors would also rattle. Now, everything is great! No more rattling or moving picture frames. Bass sounds much better and less boomy. The Subdue is well worth the $50 investment!

would this benifit me on tile floor on a concrete slab?

would this benifit me on tile floor on a concrete slab?



I would say yes.
Mine is on a carpeted concrete floor and I notice an improvement.
The bass is less boomy and more isolated.

Good luck.

I know its not the same, but I am using the dense foam packaging my sub came in. Elevates the sub about an inch off the ground - works pretty darn well.

http://xs135.xs.to/xs135/09053/20090127-dsc_0232714.jpg (http://xs.to)

MIzzou, what kind of flooring do you have? Moving picture frames is quite alot of movement. also, i have a thread here about place a slab of granite>subdues>sub> weight on top. Improveed my system quite a lot. also, i just read somewhere where some one was talking about suspend a sub half way between the floor and ceiling and get a better SQ. i was thinking about this,... maybe by bring our subs- Up even just a few inchs. might be one of the reasons we get better SQ...

I saw the SubDude advertised in a random website, and it caught my interest. Then I came to the old good faithful AVS forum to research. This thread convinced me to buy it for my Velodyne SLR and 3 days later here I am... WOW!!! I can't find any better way to put it: IT'S AN ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE!
I just wanted to share my experience like others in this thread. I am not connected in any way to a reseller, so I won't profit from your purchases... Take my advice, do yourself a favor and buy this little thing.

MIzzou, what kind of flooring do you have? Moving picture frames is quite alot of movement. also, i have a thread here about place a slab of granite>subdues>sub> weight on top. Improveed my system quite a lot. also, i just read somewhere where some one was talking about suspend a sub half way between the floor and ceiling and get a better SQ. i was thinking about this,... maybe by bring our subs- Up even just a few inchs. might be one of the reasons we get better SQ...

Sorry to take so long to respond. Haven't been back to this thread for a while. I have carpet over wood framing (basement below). The sub is sitting in a corner behind a chair about 6" from the wall.

I was off today and bored so I decided to make one of my own. I went to home depot and had a 2X4 foot piece of MDF cut into two 15X17" sections to match the foot print of my velodyne (figured I would make one for my dad's PSB sub too). I also bought heavy duty interlocking foam pads for a concrete floor to go on top of the MDF.

No matter where I looked I could not find anything I thought would be good for the "feet" so I just used the interlocking foam and cut it into two strips to lift the MDF off the floor. Before using caulking for foam board to stick the MDF and foam together I used some black electrical tape to cover the bare edge of the MDF. Sounds ghetto but it actually looks pretty good.

Does it make a difference? Minimal to my ears. The bottom end seems a tad tighter but I was hoping it would prevent some of the pictures on my wall from rattling so much, it really doesn't do much for that. Oh well, for about $25 in materials to make two, not too big of a loss. Maybe I need to experiment and find something better for the feet. What are people who make their own using? what does the official subdude use?

Any thoughts on how much of a help this would be on a carpeted floor? I have my subs ( JL Audio FB113 and Monitor Audio FB212 ) on a thick carpeted concrete 1st floor. It seems as though the SubDude is really designed for subs on hard surfaces. Any thoughts? Thanks

Any thoughts on how much of a help this would be on a carpeted floor? I have my subs ( JL Audio FB113 and Monitor Audio FB212 ) on a thick carpeted concrete 1st floor. It seems as though the SubDude is really designed for subs on hard surfaces. Any thoughts? Thanks

It will help improve SQ, less than other situations but it will make a difference that I'm guessing won't be hard to notice.

my apologies if this has been answered but what is the difference in the regular and the HD beside the $10 increase

my apologies if this has been answered but what is the difference in the regular and the HD beside the $10 increase


SubDude HD is covered in a cleanable black velour instead of the standard gray acoustic material. It's just for looks and does not add or take away from the performance. Per Auralex

MIzzou, I have hardwood floor over-crawl space. Do you have a AVIA calibration disc? It has a bass subsonic tone(or whatever it is called) it goes very low and it can help ID- - house hold items that rattle at low frequency's. it's fun
also, everyone on this thought- use feet between sub and sub-dude or sub directly on sub-dude surface?

Do these work as well with the down fireing subs too??

Do these work as well with the down fireing subs too??

yes, probably more effective than with a front firing sub... IMO at least in my room.

I ordered the Gramma - it came yesterday and I slid it under my a7s-450. However I'm not gonna be using the sub for about two months, does the foam compress at all, or can I leave it under the sub for as long as I want?

Will these work with ED subs that have the spiked feet?

Yeah in my case the gramma fit between the spikes, and also you can just screw them out.

Yeah in my case the gramma fit between the spikes, and also you can just screw them out.

This being a down firing sub wouldn't it sit to low if I took the spikes off?

I'd get discs to put under the spikes

Here is mine home made subdude. Hard foam from an arts and craft store "Micheal's." 2.5" high by 7" long. Almost the size of a red brick. Works perfect with tighter bass. Cost $5.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt165/Hksvr4/IMG_7811.jpg

Here is mine home made subdude. Hard foam from an arts and craft store "Micheal's." 2.5" high by 7" long. Almost the size of a red brick. Works perfect with tighter bass. Cost $5.[/IMG]

Cute, due they come in men's colors? ;)

I kid. In all seriousness though, do those foam bricks come in other colors, or are DIYers limited to green?

12thgear: That's all I found. You can spray paint them black. I'm going to do that later. I was testing them first.

I'm not gonna be using the sub for about two months, does the foam compress at all, or can I leave it under the sub for as long as I want?
Can somebody answer?

Can somebody answer?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

Does the foam in the Gramma compress under the weight over time? Will it be any different after I leave it under the sub for two months?

Does the foam in the Gramma compress under the weight over time? Will it be any different after I leave it under the sub for two months?It will not compress if you keep the load under the rating. My Servo15 has been sitting on a pair of Subdudes for 2-3 years now without compression.

Has anyone ever had a sub eventually "vibrate" off the Subdude?

I usually try to center the Subdude underneath my sub (the sub sticks out over the Subdude by about 1/2" on each side). But after about a week of heavy sub usage, I notice that the sub has shifted a noticeable distance, and I have to re-position it again.

I'd get discs to put under the spikes

I already made some disc for the spikes. I ordered a Gramma so will see how it works.

Would this help in not pissing off your neighbors in an apartment when you are on the second floor?

^^Maybe be. Since your sub is not sitting directly on the floor, it might make less rattle. But on the other hand, you might want to turn it up more since the bass will sounds better.

Got my Gramma and fits perfect under my ED A2-250:D

I have this in my theater-man-cave-garage

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

basically, its wood glued to a plastic sheet with many mini spikes on top of plain ole concrete.

Would a fllor like this be bad for my bass or not?

I have one of the older model PartsExpress 10" Dayton subs.

Would the 15x15 SubDude fit? Seems it would fit just right underneath the Dayton.

yeah it should fit mousse, I recently got one of these to see if getting the sub off my apartment floor would help not get complaints from neighbors below me, so far so good, it seems like this product does live up to its hype, its hard to explain how it sounds but its basically like the bass is almost "free floating" in the room now, for me it helped to de-localize it as well, I didn't want to believe it so I spent many days moving it around and putting my sub back on the floor..lol not a bad product for 50 bucks

thanks dmxsoulja3, ordering one right now! trying to be respectful of the neighbors below as well.

Yeah I went with a front firing sub, and with the subdude, the floor and walls don't rattle, I used to rattle the lampshades on my ceiling fan, now just clean sound, nothing knocking around, I was skeptical and results may vary, but this was exactly what I was hoping it would do.

i got my subdude a few weeks ago and it works great. i have my definitive technology supercube I on top of it and it's a perfect fit. it looks really good and it has stopped my windows from rattling. i think it makes the sub sound a lot better since it is off of the floor and raised up a few inches.

I use two Gammas under my ACI Titan. This is over concrete and heavy pile carpeting. I've read the comments that no improvement would probably be heard over concrete, but I'm convinced the bass is tighter and more controlled with the Gammas. It has also cancelled most of the vibrations through the walls. My wall clock that use to be tilted after a movie not remains straight. Also like the way the Titan looks on the platforms.

For anyone with a larger sub: Comes with a handy handle, I tied a long strap or rope, so I could drag my MFW-15 around.


"The Great GRAMMA Is Bigger!
The original GRAMMA is 23" long by 15" wide and 2" high. The Great GRAMMA is 30 percent larger offering an isolation platform that is 30" long by 19" wide by 2" high and exceeds the 300lb. weight limit of the original GRAMMA. The new system comes complete with a carrying handle, road-ready carpet, Studiofoam Wedges (underneath), PlatFoam (underneath), and an optional GRAMMA Gigbag"

Anyone looking for a subdude I am selling mine for a very good price. PM me if you are interested

Anyone trying these under their main speakers?

Maybe a dumb question, but I just got an STF-1 and it comes with some plastic spiked feet. If I get a SubDude, do I continue to use the spikes or do I take the spikes off? Is having both the spikes and the subdude kinda like wearing belts and suspenders?

I picked up a Gramma from Sam Ash today to use under my new Mirage S8. It's quite a bit bigger than I needed, the SubDude dimensions are a lot closer to the size of the sub, but I figure sooner or later I might want to use it for a bigger sub :D once I get out of an apartment.

I opened up several and some of them had chunks torn out of the platfoam runners on the bottom. I found one that doesn't appear to have any damage to it. I'd hate to buy one online and have it arrive damaged and have to swap it out. Plus, I think it's better to support a local store when the prices are the same. Tax winds up costing a few dollars more though.

Just wanted to chime in and say the $90 I spent this weekend on 2 GRAMMA's was absolutely worth it. My SVS PB12/Ultra 2 vibrated my favorite clock off the wall and broke it. My windows and doors in my 50 year old house always vibrated, taking away from the movie experience. Since I put the GRAMMAs under the sub, the clocks are safe again.

Maybe a dumb question, but I just got an STF-1 and it comes with some plastic spiked feet. If I get a SubDude, do I continue to use the spikes or do I take the spikes off? Is having both the spikes and the subdude kinda like wearing belts and suspenders?

isnt the stf-1 downfiring? Do not remove the spikes.

a better question is "when using spikes is it ok to have them directly on the subdude/gramma or should I continue to use discs under them?".

I forgot to mention I finally picked up a Gramma for my sub. For the money it made a big difference. Probably one of those "you must pick this up before anything else" type modifications since its so cheap. Literally I felt the bass rise from the floor(before) to my chest(after).

All this being said, I must admit I added a lot of room acoustics at the same time. Picked up an Auralex pro studio kit. That helped immensely removing echo and bounce from my theater room.

Got a question never used a sub dude but would it work with a pair of large tower speakers, a friend has a pair of The speaker company towers with 2 8" woofer sitting on hardwood floor and it vibrates quite a bit even with rubber feet attached.