Got a question never used a sub dude but would it work with a pair of large tower speakers, a friend has a pair of The speaker company towers with 2 8" woofer sitting on hardwood floor and it vibrates quite a bit even with rubber feet attached.

I was thinking about doing that same thing(even though Im on carpet with spikes). I would imagine that the subdude would be great with towers.

i just ordered a pb13-ultra and its going to be on a solid poured concrete floor. no carpet no wood nothin. would a gramma/subdude be necessary? i cant quite tell from the comments so far.

i just ordered a pb13-ultra and its going to be on a solid poured concrete floor. no carpet no wood nothin. would a gramma/subdude be necessary? i cant quite tell from the comments so far.

Only person to be able to tell that would be you. Try out the sub where you want it and see how it sounds. If you think it could benefit from being off the floor get a gramma. Honestly, if you didnt like the gramma Im sure you could sell it in a heartbeat. Id probably buy it off you.

i just ordered a pb13-ultra and its going to be on a solid poured concrete floor. no carpet no wood nothin. would a gramma/subdude be necessary? i cant quite tell from the comments so far.Doubtful. The SubDudes are most effective in preventing sub vibrations from being transferred to flexible/resonant floor boards. With concrete, all you need is a firm footing.

Doubtful. The SubDudes are most effective in preventing sub vibrations from being transferred to flexible/resonant floor boards. With concrete, all you need is a firm footing.

perfect... that was my guess but i wanted to be sure. im making sure that beast is ready to go when it gets here in 4 days. :D

I just got a gramma and it works great but its bigger then I need. I was looking at the subdude but theres also a subdude HD(home design) which cost $10 more. Do I need the HD one or is the regular subdude fine

I just got a gramma and it works great but its bigger then I need. I was looking at the subdude but theres also a subdude HD(home design) which cost $10 more. Do I need the HD one or is the regular subdude fine

They function the same. The HD has a washable cover.

Well, after reading this whole thread I purchased a Great Gramma from Amazon today. Should get here by Thursday.

I'm not even going to mention it to my wife, I'll just put it under the sub and see if she notices anything different the next time we watch a movie in the HT.

Question though: I'm thinking about adding a stage to the front of my HT room. Since my HT is on the second floor, I won't be filling the stage with sand. If I filled the stage with insulation and placed the subwoofer w/Great Gramma on top of the stage, would that be sufficient? Different than a sand filled stage?

Would SubDude make any difference on a tiled floor?

Would SubDude make any difference on a tiled floor?Probably. Anything helps a tiled floor. :rolleyes:

OK, got an older JBL PB12 (I know, I know, crap sub but I had it as an extra so it's pulling #2 sub duties in a 2-sub system) which is downfiring into carpet which most likely has a cushion below it followed by a concrete slab. I know it's only a low-priced JBL, but the bass has always been rather boomy. Will the SubDude help tighten things up a tad? I'm not looking for a revelation, just some more tightness from a low cost tweak.

OK, got an older JBL PB12 (I know, I know, crap sub but I had it as an extra so it's pulling #2 sub duties in a 2-sub system) which is downfiring into carpet which most likely has a cushion below it followed by a concrete slab. I know it's only a low-priced JBL, but the bass has always been rather boomy. Will the SubDude help tighten things up a tad? I'm not looking for a revelation, just some more tightness from a low cost tweak.

I doubt it will help. SubDude will help with rattling windows and floors. It sounds like your problem requires bass traps or EQ (or both).

[QUOTE=union1411;14460402]Subdude didn't do much for my sub. Green is with Subdude, red without. Sub is SVS PB10. i have a rug that covers most of my room and i'm on the 5th floor of a 1920s walkup; so maybe it's concrete floor, i dunno.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The graph above is from a post on page 13 of this thread. What do you all make of the crazy squiggliness off to the far right (above 100Hz)? I find this interesting because auralex's literature says that:

Subwoofers create big vibrations (low frequencies) that you can feel in the floor and in objects placed nearby. When the source of the vibrations is coupled directly to the floor it causes these objects to vibrate or resonate – not only at the fundamental pitch the source is creating but also at harmonic frequencies that discolor the true sound from the source. Now you have two (or more) objects vibrating, which creates an acoustical problem called “secondary resonance”.

Note the graph [included below] of SubDude performance on a sample concrete floor, the most noticeable effect is on harmonic frequencies above 100 Hz. This is the harmonic range above the fundamental the sub is recreating, allowing you to hear a more true bass tone below 100 Hz by eliminating upper harmonic resonances. This translates to the listener as more accuracy in the low end, and a cleaner (less muddy) crossover between the sub and your full range LCR channels. The SubDude effectively reduces secondary resonance by decoupling your subwoofer from the floor so you hear your sub and not the vibration of the other objects in your listening environment.

Note also the test was performed on a concrete floor, although repeatedly in this thread it is stated that there would be little to no difference when used on concrete.

Then again, it seems from the chart above there is little to no difference anyway, except maybe on the far right. FWIW, Auralex has this (so small it's difficult to see) chart:

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/SubDude_STL.jpg

Hksvr used Hard foam from an arts and craft store "Micheal's." 2.5" high by 7" long. I can't afford fifty more dollars on the gramma for my Sentinel so maybe the hard foam idea would work for me on my carpeted wood floor in my living room. Good idea or would the gramma be better? my soon to be here sub on Friday is 85 pounds.

Just ordered the Subdude HD from Sweetwater (long time customer there).

I'm excited to no longer have rattling picture frames throughout the house (that one is for my wife) and tighter bass (for me)!

Hksvr used Hard foam from an arts and craft store "Micheal's." 2.5" high by 7" long. I can't afford fifty more dollars on the gramma for my Sentinel so maybe the hard foam idea would work for me on my carpeted wood floor in my living room. Good idea or would the gramma be better? my soon to be here sub on Friday is 85 pounds.

Auralex does sell "Platfoam" (http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_platfoam/sound_isolation_platfoam.asp), so it seems like there must be some DIY alternative. I'm not sure about the results though. Spend $10 for foam that doesn't work, then another $15, rinse and repeat...

i doubt it will help. Subdude will help with rattling windows and floors. It sounds like your problem requires bass traps or eq (or both).

+1

[QUOTE=union1411;14460402]Subdude didn't do much for my sub. Green is with Subdude, red without. Sub is SVS PB10. i have a rug that covers most of my room and i'm on the 5th floor of a 1920s walkup; so maybe it's concrete floor, i dunno.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8964/aurdn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The graph above is from a post on page 13 of this thread. What do you all make of the crazy squiggliness off to the far right (above 100Hz)? I find this interesting because auralex's literature says that:

Subwoofers create big vibrations (low frequencies) that you can feel in the floor and in objects placed nearby. When the source of the vibrations is coupled directly to the floor it causes these objects to vibrate or resonate – not only at the fundamental pitch the source is creating but also at harmonic frequencies that discolor the true sound from the source. Now you have two (or more) objects vibrating, which creates an acoustical problem called “secondary resonance”.

Note the graph [included below] of SubDude performance on a sample concrete floor, the most noticeable effect is on harmonic frequencies above 100 Hz. This is the harmonic range above the fundamental the sub is recreating, allowing you to hear a more true bass tone below 100 Hz by eliminating upper harmonic resonances. This translates to the listener as more accuracy in the low end, and a cleaner (less muddy) crossover between the sub and your full range LCR channels. The SubDude effectively reduces secondary resonance by decoupling your subwoofer from the floor so you hear your sub and not the vibration of the other objects in your listening environment.

Note also the test was performed on a concrete floor, although repeatedly in this thread it is stated that there would be little to no difference when used on concrete.

Then again, it seems from the chart above there is little to no difference anyway, except maybe on the far right. FWIW, Auralex has this (so small it's difficult to see) chart:

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/SubDude_STL.jpg

PoshFrosh.. am I reading this right, you have the SVS PB10 and the F12?

[QUOTE=PoshFrosh;16418131]

PoshFrosh.. am I reading this right, you have the SVS PB10 and the F12?

Oh heck no. I wish! I only own the F12. I dream about the SVS.

I was just talking about this graph and the crazy squiggles above 100Hz and auralex's claim that the subdude somehow targets those sounds.

I'm not used to reading these types of graphs, so excuse me if I'm being silly.

Also, sorry if I implied that I could give some sort of direct comparison betwen the F12 and the SVS.

Hksvr used Hard foam from an arts and craft store "Micheal's." 2.5" high by 7" long. I can't afford fifty more dollars on the gramma for my Sentinel so maybe the hard foam idea would work for me on my carpeted wood floor in my living room. Good idea or would the gramma be better? my soon to be here sub on Friday is 85 pounds.

My advice is to use the Sentinel as is until you can afford the subdude. $50 isn't that much when you figure that's final cost.

If you start trying to DIY something unless you have everything already on hand and make it look 1/2 way decent, $10 here, $5 there and another $5 because I forgot to get something on my last trip, whoops I need something else $4, gas to go back and forth to get materials, time invested and don't forget tax, well you get the point, imo not worth it. Your Sentinel will be fine until you can get one.

BTW the Sentinel is leading my short list. I'm ordering in a week or so and I'd love to hear your impressions. Nothing much on it so far as far as user feedback.

I have an SVS SB12-Pus on a carpeted wood joist floor. I don't have any rattling problems and my sub sounds pretty good to me.
What improvements would I most likely notice if I use a Subdude?

I have an SVS SB12-Pus on a carpeted wood joist floor. I don't have any rattling problems and my sub sounds pretty good to me.
What improvements would I most likely notice if I use a Subdude?

One thing my friends and I noticed when using the subdude with my submersive was bass placement in the air. What I mean by that is you could actually feel the bass coming at you from wherever it was supposed to be on the screen. If a gun was fired on the upper right side of the screen, you felt it coming in from that part of the room. If a bomb went off underground, you felt the bass in the floor migrating up the couch.

Without the subdude we didnt notice as much of a bass "dimension" so to speak if that makes sense.

One thing my friends and I noticed when using the subdude with my submersive was bass placement in the air. What I mean by that is you could actually feel the bass coming at you from wherever it was supposed to be on the screen. If a gun was fired on the upper right side of the screen, you felt it coming in from that part of the room. If a bomb went off underground, you felt the bass in the floor migrating up the couch.

Without the subdude we didnt notice as much of a bass "dimension" so to speak if that makes sense.

That *has* to be psychological. I don't believe there's any mechanism in science or physics that would make essentially non-directional low frequency vibrations all of a sudden become directional and radiate from different parts of the room just by elevating a subwoofer 3" and isolating it from the floor with foam. Especially not to place the vibrations as discretely as "from the upper right side of the screen".

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

I have an SVS SB12-Pus on a carpeted wood joist floor. I don't have any rattling problems and my sub sounds pretty good to me.
What improvements would I most likely notice if I use a Subdude?

Probably not much. The Subdude addresses a very specific problem that you do not have (vibration from the sub).

I agree..my Outlaw Ex does seem to perform better 'in the air' with the gramma..then again, it may be the beer.

I just received my Subdude from Sweetwater last week. I am very impressed. I have an old house built in 1922 with the original oak floors. My Velodyne CHT-12 used to rattle the room right up to the curtain rods. Subdude totally eliminated the rattles. Definitely not snake oil. Easily the best $50 I've ever spent on an accessory/tweak.

BTW- first time ordering from Sweetwater and they were outstanding.

well was very interested, looks awesome but wanted custom size

22x25" for ed a5-350

cost just under $20

did notice a difference, the wierd part was being able to turn the level up 2 notches, was great.....

3/4" mdf, fabric and foam foam from craft store. and some spray adhesive..

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/fluffyrunnells/sub004.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/fluffyrunnells/sub001.jpg

That might be the first time I've ever seen a center channel that was bigger than the TV.

whoops sorry


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/fluffyrunnells/023-Copy.jpg

Much better.


Now, darken those walls a couple of shades, finish the baseboards and put down some rugs.

why aren't these made in a few different sizes? the 15x15 won't work very well for my 14.5" x 22" sub. i know it would work, but i think it'll look funny.

i guess i could just make one like the guy a few posts up. i do have quite a bit of stuff that rattles and vibrates in my room and it would be nice to reduce or eliminate it.

Much better.


Now, darken those walls a couple of shades, finish the baseboards and put down some rugs.

ok now you sound like my wife...

i did this in 35min, base boards next weak. rugs, no way...cant stand em'

also have fence, and deck to do....:(

why aren't these made in a few different sizes?

I believe there's 3 sizes. The sub-dude, the gramma and the great gramma.

What about solid concrete blocks/pads stacked for height (multi layer), from say Home Depot. (Material wrapped for visual)

Would that slow down Sub vibrations more then a Subdude??

I believe there's 3 sizes. The sub-dude, the gramma and the great gramma.

ok, i'll have to look a little closer. i just saw the subdude and the subdude HD.

i kinda just made my own little ghetto subdude just to see if i can hear a difference. if so i'll either make it look nicer, or buy the real deal. i took some of the same type of foam that i had layin around and glued it to a piece of plywood and layed the sub on it. it cost me nothing and only took about 5 minutes to make and setup.

i'll report back once i get a chance to test it out.

EDIT: i just ran a sweep with REW from 10hz to 50hz and it seems like the rattling has been reduced but not eliminated. maybe i need more/thicker foam. the foam i found laying around is only about 1" tall.

why aren't these made in a few different sizes? the 15x15 won't work very well for my 14.5" x 22" sub. i know it would work, but i think it'll look funny.

i guess i could just make one like the guy a few posts up. i do have quite a bit of stuff that rattles and vibrates in my room and it would be nice to reduce or eliminate it.

They come in different sizes under different names. the Subdude being the smallest then the Gramma and the Great Gramma. I ordered the Subdude Sunday for the Sentinel just because I had a credit with Amazon and wanted to check it out. I checked the size of the other models and they seem to big. The Subdude is about the exact width of our subs and would only leave 2.5" on each end if centered and should be more than enough support. It'll give a floating on air look from the front. It should be here in a few days. I'll let you know how it works out.

The Gramma and Great Gramma are marketed to musicians. Other than the size and the looks, they are identical to the subdude. I got mine at Guitar Center.

They come in different sizes under different names. the Subdude being the smallest then the Gramma and the Great Gramma. I ordered the Subdude Sunday for the Sentinel just because I had a credit with Amazon and wanted to check it out. I checked the size of the other models and they seem to big. The Subdude is about the exact width of our subs and would only leave 2.5" on each end if centered and should be more than enough support. It'll give a floating on air look from the front. It should be here in a few days. I'll let you know how it works out.

i just think the floating in mid air look would look kinda funny. i'll check out the other sizes or just finish the one i started. i look forward to your results/impressions.

so i tried to make my own Subdude but i couldn't find an foam that was dense enough. i grabbed some foam for a few bucks at a local store that i thought may be dense enough but upon trying it, my 90 lb sub squished it like a pancake.

but today, i went to a store called Guitar Center in Albany, NY with my dad to look at some drum stuff (he's a drummer). while i was there, guess what i saw. an Auralex GRAMMA for $49.99! i grabbed one and put the sub on it. i haven't got a chance to play with it yet. i'll post my impressions once i get to test it. the Epik Sentinel fits on it very nicely. the GRAMMA is 23" x 15", and with the Sentinel being 21" x 14.5" it fits like a charm. i was shocked to see the GRAMMA in a retail store and even more shocked to see it there at this price. i had thought that this kind of stuff was an internet direct kinda thing. will post my thoughts later on...

Hey everyone. I custom ordered a subdude HD a couple weeks ago. Got it at the beginning of this week. It was custom made to match my DIY Maelstrom-X sub and is 26"x26". Currently I have my Bic H-100 on it until I get the driver in. Here's some pics.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/kylathwe/CIMG0973.jpg
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/kylathwe/CIMG0974.jpg
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/kylathwe/CIMG0975.jpg

sweet, didn't know you could order custom sizes. I bet that cost a pretty penny.

It wasn't too bad. I got a quote from a local company for like $380 plus shipping...ridiculous. Got a quote from Sweetwater and paid less than half that shipped.

It wasn't too bad. I got a quote from a local company for like $380 plus shipping...ridiculous. Got a quote from Sweetwater and paid less than half that shipped.

not bad at all. Two Subdude HD's would be $120 shipped, and then not the ideal size anyway.

My situation is I have an SVS pc12-nsd sub in my home theatre set-up. The room is upstairs (over the garage) and has pergo flooring over a standard particle board subfloor. The sub is producing wonderful, room-filling bass for both HT and music-listening experience. My issue is the 'booming' resonance that is heard (felt?) in the remainder of the house. I contacted SVS & explained the situation and asked their advice." As I suspected, according to Jack at SVS, ..."most of the bass is transferred via the actual sound and not through the physical vibrating of the floor by the sub....you can experiment with putting something under the sub to de-couple it a bit and see what it sounds like downstairs." Good, practical advice and so I've ordered the Auralex Subdude (15" x 15) and will give it a try & see if it has an impact on the 'noise' factor downstairs.
It'll be interesting to see if the subdude provides a difference. I'll report what I find.

I think you'll still hear it, but at least pictures won't keep falling off the wall and breaking the glass anymore ;), a big plus in my case :D.

My situation is I have an SVS pc12-nsd sub in my home theatre set-up. The room is upstairs (over the garage) and has pergo flooring over a standard particle board subfloor. The sub is producing wonderful, room-filling bass for both HT and music-listening experience. My issue is the 'booming' resonance that is heard (felt?) in the remainder of the house. I contacted SVS & explained the situation and asked their advice." As I suspected, according to Jack at SVS, ..."most of the bass is transferred via the actual sound and not through the physical vibrating of the floor by the sub....you can experiment with putting something under the sub to de-couple it a bit and see what it sounds like downstairs." Good, practical advice and so I've ordered the Auralex Subdude (15" x 15) and will give it a try & see if it has an impact on the 'noise' factor downstairs.
It'll be interesting to see if the subdude provides a difference. I'll report what I find.

I am using Subdude. Previously, it was meant for my Velodyne DSLR4000. It did minimise the boominess of my Velodyne. Bass is firmer. Then, I bought the SVS PC-12Plus. The Subdude is a little smaller (15" x 15") since the diameter of PC-12Plus is 16". A little protruding.

It does not isolate the bass as it is meant to isolate vibration. Sound still pass through and fills my home just like Audixim mentioned. Now, I am doing acoustice treatment to minimize it.

I am using Subdude...Then, I bought the SVS PC-12Plus. The Subdude is a little smaller (15" x 15") since the diameter of PC-12Plus is 16". A little protruding.

It does not isolate the bass as it is meant to isolate vibration. Sound still pass through and fills my home just like Audixim mentioned. Now, I am doing acoustice treatment to minimize it.
Yeah, I think part of the 'downstairs' effect may be due to some of the vibration of the wood floor radiating through the floor joists that span the house. I'm anxious to hear if it makes any improvement to the situation.

at construction sites where equipment creates structure-born vibration issues, they just place these pads under the machinery and it works great

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/isolation/pads.asp?gclid=CN-r48vkjZsCFRZM5Qod9gmqpg

anyone care to comment on how it would compare to a subdude?

at construction sites where equipment creates structure-born vibration issues, they just place these pads under the machinery and it works great

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/isolation/pads.asp?gclid=CN-r48vkjZsCFRZM5Qod9gmqpg

anyone care to comment on how it would compare to a subdude?

They are 1/4 and 3/8" thick, the foam supports on the subdude are around 2" thick an the rest of the area is covered with the same type foam. I'm sure they would have some effect but at around twice the price I'd stick with the subdude.

every sub needs a subdude.

anywhere you can find one for under $49?

anywhere you can find one for under $49?

i found the GRAMMA at a local Guitar Center for $50, i would assume the Subdude would be less than $50 there since the bigger GRAMMA is $50 there.

i found the GRAMMA at a local Guitar Center for $50, i would assume the Subdude would be less than $50 there since the bigger GRAMMA is $50 there.

Whats the difference between the Gramma and the Subdude?

Whats the difference between the Gramma and the Subdude?

the GRAMMA is just a bigger size. the Subdude is 15x15. the GRAMMA is 23x15.

my sub is 21x14.5, so i went with the GRAMMA. awesome product, really tightened things up, and lessened most of the rattles in my room.

the GRAMMA is just a bigger size. the Subdude is 15x15. the GRAMMA is 23x15.

my sub is 21x14.5, so i went with the GRAMMA. awesome product, really tightened things up, and lessened most of the rattles in my room.

Thanks Jason....I think im going to pick up the Gramma..Looks like a perfect size for the Sentinel...I have it on a hardwood floor and the whole house is shaking :)

Thanks Jason....I think im going to pick up the Gramma..Looks like a perfect size for the Sentinel...I have it on a hardwood floor and the whole house is shaking :)

yup, perfect fit. i'd rather have the mat underneath be bigger instead of having the sub look like it's floating in mid air like the Subdude would do.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/cavalier94sq/IMG_4337.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/cavalier94sq/IMG_4338.jpg

the GRAMMA is just a bigger size. the Subdude is 15x15. the GRAMMA is 23x15.

my sub is 21x14.5, so i went with the GRAMMA. awesome product, really tightened things up, and lessened most of the rattles in my room.


I agree GRAMMA is bigger and you might have two for big subwoofers :)

I agree GRAMMA is bigger and you might have two for big subwoofers :)

Or you could use the Great GRAMMA, which is what I did.

Or you could use the Great GRAMMA, which is what I did.

Yes if it fits under subwoofer, but one Great GRAMMA wont be enough for 36x24x36 (HxWxD) subwoofer and two GRAMMAS are :).

The lack of deals to be found on the Subdude is irritating me. I can't find it any cheaper than the GRAMMA. Somebody needs to produce these for less than $50.

The lack of deals to be found on the Subdude is irritating me. I can't find it any cheaper than the GRAMMA. Somebody needs to produce these for less than $50.

why? :confused:

why? :confused:

First, the GRAMMA also costs $50, but it's bigger. The smaller size should be cheaper.

Second, I doubt it costs more than $20 to manufacture.

Third, I'm cheap.

First, the GRAMMA also costs $50, but it's bigger. The smaller size should be cheaper.

Second, I doubt it costs more than $20 to manufacture.

Third, I'm cheap.

to me the GRAMMA was well worth the $50 i paid. retail on the GRAMMA is supposed to be $60.

First, the GRAMMA also costs $50, but it's bigger. The smaller size should be cheaper.

Second, I doubt it costs more than $20 to manufacture.

Third, I'm cheap.

Both the Subdude and Gramma have been the same price for as long as I've been in the game which as been several years and the price hasn't changed, which can't be said about many items. Personally I think it's a completely fair price considering the cost of running a business. By the time one paid for the materials to construct one, gas, tax and other expenses I'd venture to say you'd be right at $50 not to mention time involved and they don't use ordinary foam. It's very VERY dense stuff. Most foams would cave under the weight of my 85lb sub but doesn't budge with the sub dude.

If you want to try and construct one by all means go for it but I doubt you'd beat the price by much if at all and maybe come out worse by the time you added everything up and probably not get the exact same quality material used in the process plus the time involved, whatever that's worth to you vs one click ordering.

to me the GRAMMA was well worth the $50 i paid. retail on the GRAMMA is supposed to be $60.

I went to a guitar shop yesterday that had the GRAMMA with a ticket saying "Reduced Price $49.99 regularly 59.99". But when I spoke with an employee he said in slightly different words that that's just marketing, they've always sold them for $50. He said he could order in a Subdude, but it would also be $50.

Both the Subdude and Gramma have been the same price for as long as I've been in the game which as been several years and the price hasn't changed, which can't be said about many items.

I'm not one to say that the something is right just because that's how it's always been.

Personally I think it's a completely fair price considering the cost of running a business. By the time one paid for the materials to construct one, gas, tax and other expenses I'd venture to say you'd be right at $50 not to mention time involved and they don't use ordinary foam. It's very VERY dense stuff. Most foams would cave under the weight of my 85lb sub but doesn't budge with the sub dude.

All of the overhead you mention would be the same for both. But the GRAMMA uses more materials, meaning it costs more to manufacture. If the GRAMMA can be sold profitably for $50, it only makes sense that its little brother could be sold profitably for less.

If you want to try and construct one by all means go for it but I doubt you'd beat the price by much if at all and maybe come out worse by the time you added everything up and probably not get the exact same quality material used in the process plus the time involved, whatever that's worth to you vs one click ordering.

I don't have nearly the resources available that Auralex has at their disposal. I'm sure I could not personally construct one for less. But there has to be another company that makes room treatment materials like Auralex that could offer some competition.

All of the overhead you mention would be the same for both. But the GRAMMA uses more materials, meaning it costs more to manufacture. If the GRAMMA can be sold profitably for $50, it only makes sense that its little brother could be sold profitably for less.


On the other hand for all I know they might start with the same exact materials just having less waste for the GRAMMA.

just buy one... it's worth it. so many people have stated that to them it was worth the 50 bucks, but if you don't feel that it is, then oh well.

I don't have nearly the resources available that Auralex has at their disposal. I'm sure I could not personally construct one for less. But there has to be another company that makes room treatment materials like Auralex that could offer some competition.

FYI, Auralex is the budget provider. Other than people selling packing foam and calling it acoustic foam, they are the low cost provider for this kind of thing.

Most of the cost of a product like this at this price point is from the overhead factors mentioned. The difference in materials cost between the two sizes is probably a $1 or so.

FYI, Auralex is the budget provider. Other than people selling packing foam and calling it acoustic foam, they are the low cost provider for this kind of thing.

Most of the cost of a product like this at this price point is from the overhead factors mentioned. The difference in materials cost between the two sizes is probably a $1 or so.

that's probably true. think about what material there is. MDF, foam, the fabric that covers the mdf, and a little glue. the GRAMMA is only 8" bigger. how much more can that little extra really cost.

i need 8x @ diff sizes.. custom sizes ?

400+$ ? :eek:

Just ordered one from Sweetwater about 10 minutes ago and just got a call from them making sure my address and everything is correct so that the order goes perfectly. Was not expecting that but *very* happy that they did. In all my years of ordering online, never had that happen.

Can't wait to get it!

Just ordered one from Sweetwater about 10 minutes ago and just got a call from them making sure my address and everything is correct so that the order goes perfectly. Was not expecting that but *very* happy that they did. In all my years of ordering online, never had that happen.

Can't wait to get it!

Really? Sounds more like they were suspicious of fraud.

Snake oil if you ask me....

Anyone have FR charts with and without this device?

Well its not snake oil I can tell you that. Big Daddy over at the blu ray forums knows what he is talking about when it comes to bass.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=103410

He has plenty of charts to show the improvements. But the biggest thing people forget is placement is soooo huge that even a subdude wont fix horrible placement.

Snake oil if you ask me....

Anyone have FR charts with and without this device?

Is this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14766736&postcount=408) what you are looking for?

Snake oil if you ask me....

Anyone have FR charts with and without this device?

not snake oil my friend. i noticed quite a difference when i put a GRAMMA under my Epik Sentinel. it sounded noticeably tighter, and reduced a lot of vibrations and rattles in my room.

I went with the SubdudeHD because of the color. The product ended all window rattles, therefore it accomplished exactly what I paid for.

Just ordered one from Sweetwater about 10 minutes ago and just got a call from them making sure my address and everything is correct so that the order goes perfectly. Was not expecting that but *very* happy that they did. In all my years of ordering online, never had that happen.

Can't wait to get it!

I have found that Sweetwater has great personal service. In fact, they will contact you to make sure you are happy with your purchase.

Is the subdude gonna help if I have carpet with thick underlay rubber?

Help what? It might help -- depending on what problem you are trying to solve.

Snake oil if you ask me....

Anyone have FR charts with and without this device?

well... even if the fr charts are exactly the same before and after, that doesn't make it snake oil...

in my house with my sub, the product is worth the money, simply because it decouples the sub from the floor...

as with any "tool", the application you are using it for is key...

ymmv...

Or just make you're own:D

149177

I agree with making your own stand. I had a four shelf Salamander rack that I no longer needed. Took one of the shelves and glued some dense foam to the bottom. The foam was used as packing corner foam for a tube SVS sub I no longer had. Placed under my SVS Ultra 13 the stand eliminated the vibrations to my carpeted floors.

I agree with making your own stand. I had a four shelf Salamander rack that I no longer needed. Took one of the shelves and glued some dense foam to the bottom. The foam was used as packing corner foam for a tube SVS sub I no longer had. Placed under my SVS Ultra 13 the stand eliminated the vibrations to my carpeted floors.

And it's fun too;)

Or just make you're own:D

149177

Eric, that looks pretty slick! What did you use to make that? Plywood or MDF? I guess it really doesn't matter too much right?
Is that foam glued underneath?
I am thinking the DIY route is the way to go. Save money and it would be a fun project on the weekend.

Eric, that looks pretty slick! What did you use to make that? Plywood or MDF? I guess it really doesn't matter too much right?
Is that foam glued underneath?
I am thinking the DIY route is the way to go. Save money and it would be a fun project on the weekend.

I used 3/4 MDF and closed cell neoprene foam. I used rubber backed indoor/outdoor carpet which was a 2'x12' piece. I liked the black carpet better that was on the big rolls rather then the smaller stuff you find on the smaller rolls. I bought the foam from the foam factory and the carpet from Lowe's. The 1" neoprene works out much better then the open cell foam as it is more stable under the weight of my sub (70lb) but yet it will still compress as in the pic below. I only have carpet on the top and painted the edges of the MDF black. I think it gives it a cleaner look. It stands 2 1/2" high.

149205

i need 8x @ diff sizes.. custom sizes ?

400+$ ? :eek:

DIY Gramma 22 inch x 18 inch = 30 USD

I just bought an LFM-1 EX. Do I need a Subdude (or Gramma)? I live in a townhome with neighbors on both sides and the floors are wood laminate with concrete slab as the foundation. My walls shake when it's played at high levels but isnt it supposed to or will the Subdude eliminate this?

Would a subdude help me out? I have carpet over a cement floor under one sub, under the other is half on tile floor (fireplace) and half on the carpet over cement.
Will these help a layout like I described?

Would a subdude help me out? I have carpet over a cement floor under one sub, under the other is half on tile floor (fireplace) and half on the carpet over cement.
Will these help a layout like I described?

In a short answer, yes. It will help decouple it from the floor.

I just DIYed my own using plywood and dense packing foam and covered the plywood with black velvet. About 7 bucks total and it looks better than a Subdude.
Not sure if I prefer decoupling the bass, it was kind of nice to feel it before. Will have to try it out some more.

I just DIYed my own using plywood and dense packing foam and covered the plywood with black velvet. About 7 bucks total and it looks better than a Subdude.
Not sure if I prefer decoupling the bass, it was kind of nice to feel it before. Will have to try it out some more.

Where did you get the packing foam?

Where did you get the packing foam?

Check out Walmart and any craft store or you can order it on line from these people http://www.thefoamfactory.com/packagingfoam/packagingfoam.html

I just DIYed my own using plywood and dense packing foam and covered the plywood with black velvet. About 7 bucks total and it looks better than a Subdude.
Not sure if I prefer decoupling the bass, it was kind of nice to feel it before. Will have to try it out some more.

what sub do you have and in what size room?

even with the GRAMMA under my sub i can still feel it. i'd say that now i am just feeling the effects of the room being pressurized, and not the direct vibrations being sent through the floor and walls. so if you have enough sub you should still be able to feel it.

Where did you get the packing foam?

I scavenged it from some pro electronic gear packaging, it is really dense black polyethelene foam, plenty strong enough.

what sub do you have and in what size room?

even with the GRAMMA under my sub i can still feel it. i'd say that now i am just feeling the effects of the room being pressurized, and not the direct vibrations being sent through the floor and walls. so if you have enough sub you should still be able to feel it.

I have a MFW-15 in a 15 by 20 room, still plenty of bass, it just doesn't come up from the floor through your legs like it did before. The tradeoff from that particular visceral impact is the elimination of time arrival smear, and better articulation in the bass. It's a very distinct difference. This probably will be better for late night movie watching when others are trying to get some rest.

I have a MFW-15 in a 15 by 20 room, still plenty of bass, it just doesn't come up from the floor through your legs like it did before. The tradeoff from that particular visceral impact is the elimination of time arrival smear, and better articulation in the bass. It's a very distinct difference. This probably will be better for late night movie watching when others are trying to get some rest.

yup, those are all added benefits that definitely outweigh the con of not feeling the bass as much. i'll take better sounding bass over feeling the bass more, personally i still feel the bass plenty though. if i crank it loud enough i can pressurize the room enough to feel it that way.

Okay. I'm a believer now. I got a sub-dude on Saturday and it cleaned up the bass and I no longer hear any vibrations of pictures, windows or our fireplace doors.

All the energy seems to be there, it's just moving air now instead of shaking everything. I wasn't a believer in de-coupling, I have changed my opinion.

I made my own with MDF and foam blocks from a arts and craft store. It sounds alot better. Crisp and clean with out shaking the floor. I actually perfer the sound over the vibration. I was able to turn up the gain without it getting muddy or bommy. It is well worth it. Total cost $13.

Count me as one of the happy DIYers. I work in IT and after reading this thread I coincidentally a day or two later received a new server that came packed in some sort of dense foam stuff. I first out of laziness simply put 4 square pieces under each corner of my sub just to see if it made any difference. Yee gad did it ever. So after I found I could go way way up in vol and play with the gain, i went all in and built a nice little platform using some tongue and groove flooring from our recent renovations stained it to match the floor. High waf, much better sound, no more vibrations, this has been an all around winner, and it essentially cost me nothing except some time.

Sorry if this has already been posted elsewhere in this thread.....I've not read completely through it but a quick search didn't turn up the word "sponge(s)" so I thought I would pass this along.

After finally getting a sub that would rattle the room I had to get it up off of the hardwood floor. Four sanding sponges (3"x5"x1.25") were attached to the sub underside with small tabs of two-sided foam tape. This has decoupled the sub from the floor very effectively with an added benefit of the sub looking like it "floats" above the floor. The sponges are recessed in about 1.5" from front/side/back edges and hide in the shadow. I have no idea if this is better or worse than other methods but it works for me.

Sorry if this has already been posted elsewhere in this thread.....I've not read completely through it but a quick search didn't turn up the word "sponge(s)" so I thought I would pass this along.

After finally getting a sub that would rattle the room I had to get it up off of the hardwood floor. Four sanding sponges (3"x5"x1.25") were attached to the sub underside with small tabs of two-sided foam tape. This has decoupled the sub from the floor very effectively with an added benefit of the sub looking like it "floats" above the floor. The sponges are recessed in about 1.5" from front/side/back edges and hide in the shadow. I have no idea if this is better or worse than other methods but it works for me.

should work just fine. i doubt it's better, but i can't see it being worse either. :)

It does work well, I think, and very cost effective at @$2.50 for materials. Lot's of discussion in the thread about where to get dense foam....the sanding sponges are very dense and don't compress at all.

It does work well, I think, and very cost effective at @$2.50 for materials. Lot's of discussion in the thread about where to get dense foam....the sanding sponges are very dense and don't compress at all.

that's what you want. i tried making a DIY one but i couldn't find dense enough foam. never thought of sanding sponges. good info for anyone that might want to make their own.

I've recently changed subs and no longer have a need for my subdude, if anyone wants it let me know.

any ideas on what to use to get a huge sub off the floor? i got the eD A7-900 and want to get it off the ground but not sure what will be able to hold the weight, was thinking along the lines of the pads they use to get washers and dryers up off the floor because the thing weighs 400 lb. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Just got the Great GRAMMA for my Epik Castle and though it isn't a quantum leap in SQ, subjectively it does seem to have made bass a bit more "punchy" with music. Definition is better with double kick drums, and separation between bass guitar and kick drums, especially with quick, staccato notes/strikes is more pronounced. This is on a raised wood foundation with carpeting. On hardwood floors the difference would likely be even greater.

Just got the Great GRAMMA for my Epik Castle and though it isn't a quantum leap in SQ, subjectively it does seem to have made bass a bit more "punchy" with music. Definition is better with double kick drums, and separation between bass guitar and kick drums, especially with quick, staccato notes/strikes is more pronounced. This is on a raised wood foundation with carpeting. On hardwood floors the difference would likely be even greater.

exactly my experience.

exactly my experience.

Good to know I'm not crazy :)

Good to know I'm not crazy :)

Ditto x 3....Although I can't make the not crazy claim so easily, a few would disagree.

Good to know I'm not crazy :)

nope, not crazy. it wasn't a huge difference, but it was a very noticeable difference. everything just sounds punchier and more defined. notes seem to decay a lot sooner instead of hanging around.

nope, not crazy. it wasn't a huge difference, but it was a very noticeable difference. everything just sounds punchier and more defined. notes seem to decay a lot sooner instead of hanging around.

Yep, that's exactly it. I'm glad I got it. I don't know that people who aren't intimately familiar with my system would notice, but I sure do...and that's what matters :D

Just ordered a SubDude HD from sweetwater. My neighbors below me just returned from a 4 month vacation in Chicago. I didn't know anyone even lived below me until they knocked on my door and complained about my sub. I tried to do the sanding sponges, but that didn't help at all, most likely because it is downfiring. So now I am hoping that the SubDude fixes all my problems.

Just ordered a SubDude HD from sweetwater. My neighbors below me just returned from a 4 month vacation in Chicago. I didn't know anyone even lived below me until they knocked on my door and complained about my sub. I tried to do the sanding sponges, but that didn't help at all, most likely because it is downfiring. So now I am hoping that the SubDude fixes all my problems.

While it wont totally eliminate it, it will help reduce it.

nope, not crazy. it wasn't a huge difference, but it was a very noticeable difference. everything just sounds punchier and more defined. notes seem to decay a lot sooner instead of hanging around.

A lower decay time would be a measurable difference. You don't have to make this claim - you just have to post the graphs that prove it.

I generally do not subscribe to much "voodoo" - a lot of which I see posted here. But the reports that vibrations through the building were reduced makes a lot of sense depending on the surface and home construction, so that's why I grabbed some sponges and tried them out. Haven't done much A/B testing, but due to my bachelor status and the lack of items I have available to vibrate, I suspect this may have a bigger impact on my neighbors than it does on me.

Haven't had much time to A/B test either - which I will try to fit in some time this winter.

While it wont totally eliminate it, it will help reduce it.


I have the ONKYO HT-S7100 and I had the sub at about 75% and the receiver at about 45. When I turned it down to about 37 and the sub to 25% it seemed to be alright, so hopefully it will reduce it enough. Once I get it in, I am going to ask my neighbor if I can experiment with different settings and go down stairs to see if I can hear anything.

I have the ONKYO HT-S7100 and I had the sub at about 75% and the receiver at about 45. When I turned it down to about 37 and the sub to 25% it seemed to be alright, so hopefully it will reduce it enough. Once I get it in, I am going to ask my neighbor if I can experiment with different settings and go down stairs to see if I can hear anything.

First step before trying gadgets is proper calibration. It sounds like you have your bass way overcooked.

The Subdude won't stop the LF soundwaves from pissing off you neighbors. What it will do is stop the floor, windows, cups on the tables from becoming part of the soundtrack.

First step before trying gadgets is proper calibration. It sounds like you have your bass way overcooked.

The Subdude won't stop the LF soundwaves from pissing off you neighbors. What it will do is stop the floor, windows, cups on the tables from becoming part of the soundtrack.

If it can reduce vibrations in your apartment, wouldn't it also do the same for your neighbors?

In an apt building, you are sharing walls and a floor/ceiling...

If it can reduce vibrations in your apartment, wouldn't it also do the same for your neighbors?

In an apt building, you are sharing walls and a floor/ceiling...

Sure, but the low frequency sound waves will still make their way through the walls and floors. You would need large bass traps to prevent this.

I will try to re-calibrate my system when I get the subdude with Onkyo's calibration microphone.

If the subdude and the re-calibration doesn't work then I have 2 choices, either sell my entire system or turn the bass super low.

The person below me was more complaining about the rattling, but maybe she just thought the rattling and LF were the same thing.

I will try to re-calibrate my system when I get the subdude with Onkyo's calibration microphone.

If the subdude and the re-calibration doesn't work then I have 2 choices, either sell my entire system or turn the bass super low.

The person below me was more complaining about the rattling, but maybe she just thought the rattling and LF were the same thing.

Choice number 3. Invite her up to watch some movies :D

Choice number 3. Invite her up to watch some movies :D


Touche!!!!!

I went down and talked to her again today, and re-confirmed that it is mostly the rattling that she hears. Although she said she could hear me playing the drums on rock band, but I told her there isn't much I can do about that.

Once I get the subdude (which sweetwater already shipped, they are super awesome there) she is going to let me run test on it to see what the threshold is.

^^^Take a nice bottle of vino, just in case...... :D

I just got a subdude and it did make a significant difference.

By the way I got it here, ordered wednesday afternoon, delivered thursday afternoon. Free shipping

http://www.truesoundcontrol.com/products/SUBDUDE.html

Just got mine in today, looks very nice under the sub, I have to run some test on it though to see if there is a big difference and if it helps with the neighbors downstairs.

Just got mine in today, looks very nice under the sub, I have to run some test on it though to see if there is a big difference and if it helps with the neighbors downstairs.

How did it go?

How did it go?

So far so good, I will say that it really helped the overall sound of the sub. It sounds a lot better. I have not had any issues with my neighbor downstairs. My sub woofer is on 50% and I re-calibrated with Audysee. I watched a few blu-rays and also starwars IV and V and no issues at all and sounded great. The sub isn't as loud as I would like, however I will have to wait until I get a house to really blast it... or wait until they go on vacation again.

Meanwhile, there's another thread that's active today in which people are talking about how to get more shaking floors because they like to feel it.

Funny, sorta.

Would this help with my rattling ceiling fan??? It's so annoying.

Would this help with my rattling ceiling fan??? It's so annoying.

maybe. i had a lot of rattling things in my room. before i went and hunted them all down i got a GRAMMA and it put most if not all to rest. i don't notice anything rattling now.

Since my first sub is on its way, arrives today actually! (BIC F12) I decided last night to go out and get some materials for my own sub pad.

Here is what I used:

16" x 48" x 3/4" MDF - cut to 16" x 18" (slightly larger than my sub)
(1) 2' x 5' piece of black ribbed indoor/outdoor carpet (better to buy a thinner carpet so its easier to manipulate
(2) 2" x 4" x 12" green hard styrofoam block (got these at michaels near the softer plant foam, I can stand on them without any compression)

Tools: Staple gun, scissors, styrofoam glue

I had the guy at Home Depot cut the MDF for me, brought it home, cut a piece of carpet about 2' x 2', and basically upholstered the board.

Then I just glued the styrofoam to the bottom towards the outside edges of the board. I plan on getting one of those egg-crate pads for mattresses to cover the remaining bare wood on the bottom of the board.

All in all, I think it came out pretty good, the carpet is very tought and it looks sharp, I will post some pictures later today when I get home from work, and the new sub should be here by then too!

Total cost for the pad: $20 - the biggest expense was the piece of carpet, it was $10 for the pre-cut runner, and I could only purchase a 2'x12' sheet if I had them cut it for me, which would have been like $16.

Am I missing something?

Certain types of closed cell foam are used to absorb vibrations. While styrofoam is technically closed cell foam, I don't think it is going to be effective for this usage.

I realize there is a huge lack of testing with many of these materials, but imo hard styrofoam seems inappropriate for the application.

Yea Polyethylene foam is best for absorbing vibrations, but I could not find any at home depot or michaels craft store. However, the general category you want to be in is closed cell foam/padding, of which polystyrene (styrofoam) falls into.

So its not the most ideal material, but for $5, its the best I could at the time. I will definitely keep an eye out though for some polyethylene foam, and replacing the foam on my pad would not be hard at all.

So I have a question. I'm looking at getting a subdude seeing how I live in an old apt building and I just bought a Epik Sentinel subwoofer. But the problem is that the sub has a 20x15 footprint. Will I be okay with just the normal subdude?

So I have a question. I'm looking at getting a subdude seeing how I live in an old apt building and I just bought a Epik Sentinel subwoofer. But the problem is that the sub has a 20x15 footprint. Will I be okay with just the normal subdude?

No, you need the Gramma, which is 23" X 15"

Am I missing something?

Certain types of closed cell foam are used to absorb vibrations. While styrofoam is technically closed cell foam, I don't think it is going to be effective for this usage.

I realize there is a huge lack of testing with many of these materials, but imo hard styrofoam seems inappropriate for the application.

i agree. the foam needs to be at least a little soft and a little absorbent.

No, you need the Gramma, which is 23" X 15"

yup i have a GRAMMA under my Sentinel. works perfect.

I ordered one from Amazon, should be here by Wednesday. Will chime back in with observations.

I have two of them under a Conquest.

Bill

Quick question..tried reading through the 22 pages of posts but didn't see my question.
I have an M&K MX-150 sub, which has dual 12" drivers. One points up from the bottom, the other aims out the front within a lower ported box.
I've set the sub on a subdude using spikes. Is this the best way? I was thinking of maybe getting rubber feet for the sub but not sure which is best or if it even matters. :confused:

Do any of you use the subdude or something similar for your (L/R) tower speakers? I have Paradigm Monitor 9's, with spikes on carpet over a concrete slab. Would using a subdude or pair of mopads for the mains offer any additional benefits?

Anyone know if the Bic F12 will fit on one of these? 15 x 15 and my sub is 14.25" wide x 17.25" deep with rubber feet attached to the base...

Do any of you use the subdude or something similar for your (L/R) tower speakers? I have Paradigm Monitor 9's, with spikes on carpet over a concrete slab. Would using a subdude or pair of mopads for the mains offer any additional benefits?

Out of the blue last week I got a call from Guitar Center offering me a $20 gift card. I thought why not use it for another set of Mopads for my mains.

First, this was not the brightest idea I've had. My mains are HEAVY. The mopads seem to be holding the weight for now, but I'm concerned they will start to crush later on.

I really haven't noticed any difference with the mopads under the mains. In fact I believe I will remove them this weekend before they are crushed.

IMO, putting something under the mains is not worth the effort. Perhaps if I was running the mains as full range, but with most of the low end handled by the sub the impact is limited.

I've tried searches and still cannot find the answer. Should spikes or rubber feet be left on your sub when using a subdude? Thanks for any feedback.

I've tried searches and still cannot find the answer. Should spikes or rubber feet be left on your sub when using a subdude? Thanks for any feedback.

I have my SVS PB12 Ultra/2 sitting directly on the Grammas without any spikes or rubber feet (mine has a bass plate on the bottom). If your sub does not have a bass plate, I would think rubber feet (just to protect the Subdude from the spikes). Not sure either way...

I've tried searches and still cannot find the answer. Should spikes or rubber feet be left on your sub when using a subdude? Thanks for any feedback.

I ended up leaving the spikes on and putting floor discs under the spikes to protect the subdude from ripping.
I bought some pretty sweet ones from ebay for $16 a set. Looks nicer too.

I have laminate floors w/ 2 PA-120's that rattle my whole house during movies so I wanted to see if there was anything out there besides the bartender rubber mat that I put under them to stop vibrations.

I found this thread and ordered 2 Grammas from B&H Photo and they showed up yesterday a week after ordering.

I played my usual U-571 (depth charge scene) & Star Wars -Clones (opening giant starship flyover/landing) first wthout the grammas then with.

I was pleasently suprised to hear about 2/3 reduction in plate/picture rattling that always goes on. Even my wife said it rattles less. I tried music thru my subs and there was a small noticible difference in the way the sub responded.

I realized that I hadn't rerun my YPAO auto setup thru my Yamaha AVR and after doing that it improved my musc ever so slightly.

My PA-120's are very good entry level HT subs that can rattle the house. The gramma reduced that but even better made my subs sound better w/ music.

For $100 for both, I think its good buy and are very well built, especially helping with my floating laminate floors.

My $.02.

so I'm going have to order one of these tonight then. Seems amazon is the place for me to get it due to free shipping(and I have prime so 2 day shipping, Subdude Gramma (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002D0B4U?ie=UTF8&tag=thecolharblo-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0002D0B4U)) I have a small apartment so this will be a must.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I find 50-$60 for this thing to be borderline outrageous. I wonder how (6) 18X18 rubber-backed carpet squares from Home Depot for $12-$15 would compare?

James

EDIT: Wait, I take that back, since my sub is 18"X18" I'd need to spend EIGHTY dollars on a GREAT gramma.

give me a break.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I find 50-$60 for this thing to be borderline outrageous.

Agreed. After spending $30,000 on my HT and equipment, I'm not about to blow $60.


And screw those expensive accoustic treatments, I just tacked up carpet squares around my room. Money well saved.

I wonder how (6) 18X18 rubber-backed carpet squares from Home Depot for $12-$15 would compare?

About as well as using a rope, instead of a belt, to hold up your pants. Sure, it might do the trick. But, it won't be pretty. :)

just put this under my sub that would rattle my window, now that's basically gone...i'm afraid to ask my downstairs neighbor if it's lightened up or still annoying for him XD

Agreed. After spending $30,000 on my HT and equipment, I'm not about to blow $60.


And screw those expensive accoustic treatments, I just tacked up carpet squares around my room. Money well saved.

About as well as using a rope, instead of a belt, to hold up your pants. Sure, it might do the trick. But, it won't be pretty. :)

LOL. I totally agree with both of you. I mean, there's a time to be frugal to save money, but then there's a time when you just want things done right. I got a complaint from my neighbors after I setup my 8" Cambridge Soundworks subwoofer and cranked it up. After buying the Subdude, I haven't had a complaint since and noticed that vibrations are less in the floor. My HT is in the 2nd floor of a townhouse.

Agreed. After spending $30,000 on my HT and equipment, I'm not about to blow $60.


And screw those expensive accoustic treatments, I just tacked up carpet squares around my room. Money well saved.

Poor analogy (even at $30,000 which is about five to ten times what most spend on their tv, receiver, speakers, and source component(s)).

An argument can be made regarding the R&D, materials, performance, and inherent, UNDUPLICABLE nature of a 7-$800 receiver.

It's difficult to apply the same logic to this item.

And, by the way, the carpet squares would prove to VIRTUALLY INVISIBLE when properly cut and positioned- kinda flies in the face of this eye-sore argument.

James

About as well as using a rope, instead of a belt, to hold up your pants. Sure, it might do the trick. But, it won't be pretty. :)

See the above comment. The best part: as if the "gramma" is anything but a**-ugly in the first place, LOL. Perhaps it looks at home on the floor at a bar, but not so much in someone's living room.

Again, the carpet squares could of course be cut in ten minutes to PERFECTLY fit the given application. Anything visible at ALL...at ALL...would appear to be a black mass...kinda like something else?

Bashing the idea sounds great, especially to the guys who have probably spent $100+ on $3 worth of foam, but in reality, it would almost certainly accomplish the same or nearly the same thing, at a FRACTION of the cost, and look better.

Gramma on though...

James

I'm sure you can do a lot better than the Gramma in terms of looks and price if you go the DIY route. However, I highly doubt that carpet squares will do the trick. I think most of the effect from the Gramma comes from the foam.

I'm sure you can do a lot better than the Gramma in terms of looks and price if you go the DIY route. However, I highly doubt that carpet squares will do the trick. I think most of the effect from the Gramma comes from the foam.

Rubber-backed carpet squares would have closed cell foam padding on them. That's the same kind of material employed by these risers.

I agree that the aesthetics of these devices are questionable, and if you can come up with dampening padding that works that is hidden below the sub for a fraction of the cost, I say go for it.

To each his own, I guess.

How about this foam?
http://www.reliablehardware.com/blackrigidpolyethylenefoam-2thick.aspx

....two strips attached to the bottom of a cut-to-size 1" MDF, which can be covered with a carpet square to avoid scratching.

Rubber-backed carpet squares would have closed cell foam padding on them. That's the same kind of material employed by these risers.

I agree that the aesthetics of these devices are questionable, and if you can come up with dampening padding that works that is hidden below the sub for a fraction of the cost, I say go for it.

To each his own, I guess.

Thank you. See, what some are envisioning here is a bit faulty, I think.

For instance, I'm getting a Trinity tomorrow and the base is 18X18. Now, of COURSE I am not going to cut/position an 18X18 square. A 17X17 or 16X16 cube will be MORE than adequate to completely, solidly support the cube, provide the isolation I desire, AND appear nearly invisible from almost every angle in the room. Really, it should appear that the sub is just "floating" for lack of a better word.

I don't doubt the ability of the gramma to dampen, I just take issue with the price, is all.

I didn't mean to come off like a jack-a**, but $80 seems a bit much IMO.


James

How about this foam?
http://www.reliablehardware.com/blackrigidpolyethylenefoam-2thick.aspx

....two strips attached to the bottom of a cut-to-size 1" MDF, which can be covered with a carpet square to avoid scratching.

It appears serviceable enough, but look at the price.

James

Thank you. See, what some are envisioning here is a bit faulty, I think.

For instance, I'm getting a Trinity tomorrow and the base is 18X18. Now, of COURSE I am not going to cut/position an 18X18 square. A 17X17 or 16X16 cube will be MORE than adequate to completely, solidly support the cube, provide the isolation I desire, AND appear nearly invisible from almost every angle in the room. Really, it should appear that the sub is just "floating" for lack of a better word.

I don't doubt the ability of the gramma to dampen, I just take issue with the price, is all.

I didn't mean to come off like a jack-a**, but $80 seems a bit much IMO.


James

Just as some may take issue with the price of the Trinity when you could build one yourself for less.

If you have the tools, knowledge, and ambition I say make something yourself. If you are like most of us, spending a few dollars on a product like the Gramma is not a big deal - especially when placed under a $2000 sub woofer.

Just as some may take issue with the price of the Trinity when you could build one yourself for less.

If you have the tools, knowledge, and ambition I say make something yourself. If you are like most of us, spending a few dollars on a product like the Gramma is not a big deal - especially when placed under a $2000 sub woofer.


Yeah, I took issue with the Trinity's price too ($3000), so I bought it for $1400!

Again, my point is, that the gramma doesn't offer ME a lot of value, as I can easily duplicate its effect at a fraction of the cost. I can't say the same about the Trinity.

James

It appears serviceable enough, but look at the price.

James

Sorry, somehow I got confused and I thought you needed more than one riser.

Here's another one that's only 1" thick but you could use two layers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Professional-Polyurethane-Foam-12-x-12-x-1-flat-set_W0QQitemZ250482962222QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain _0?hash=item3a51f2af2e

Whataver route you end up taking, it'd be interesting so see your impressions and/or pictures. I like what the Gramma did to improve my subwoofer's performance but I agree with you that it's not the best looking nor the most cost effective solution.

I will move forward with my idea and post pics with honest results.

If the carpet fails, perhaps I'll bow-down to the "gramma".

James

I made my own "sub-dude" for about $30 (can do this for less if but I needed a staple gun and glue).

3/4" MDF
2'x5' black carpet runner
I bought hard green styrofoam, might replace this with the softer foam that my sub came with

Works very well, and all you see is a black base under the sub, it actually turned out really well and looks like something you would buy. Plus, I have enough supplies left over to make 2 more for my front L and R, which I hear can make a difference.

I have a phoenix which is 22x22. Sounds like I would have to do a diy. The phoenix has ports that fire down. That should not matter, right?

No, downfiring subs actually benefit more from the sub-pads than front-firing.

I will move forward with my idea and post pics with honest results.


Many people in this thread have posted about their DIY subdudes. They work fine. Some of us would rather spend the $50 - $75 than bother with it (heck that's like one hand of black jack in Vegas), some would rather make it themselves. Just like everything else in this hobby. Some would never even consider buying a subwoofer (like you did), but would rather DIY. I don't see them going into all the subwoofer threads, however, and talking about what a rip off subwoofers are when they could be built for a fraction of the cost. Why do you think that is?

I have a spare subdude that is just sitting in my bedroom. It's the smaller version and needs a good cleaning, but there are no tears of any sort....will sell cheap...just pm me.

Hey all...

Quick question about a stiff foam for de-coupling a sub...

How about those foam tubes that are used to insulate small / medium size water pipes (to keep them from freezing)?

Here in Maine you can buy a bunch for a low price...

Would those work as a de-coupling foam?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7H71688L._SS500_.jpg

Thanks for any advice :).

Yeah, I took issue with the Trinity's price too ($3000), so I bought it for $1400!

Again, my point is, that the gramma doesn't offer ME a lot of value, as I can easily duplicate its effect at a fraction of the cost. I can't say the same about the Trinity.

James

Well, at least I got a great Aurelex catalog w/ my 2 grammas. :)

My point is, I can make 2 of these myself but I'll tell you these things are built solid.

What is my time worth? After materials, what you make monetarily an hour factors in to the diy price in my opinion. I can't make them cheaper than I can buy them. With 4 kids...I don't have time for squat.

It's like the $5 usb card reader I bought at Fry's yesterday....I can make one but not for $5. And remember...you get a great catalog ;)

My $.02

^^ This guy loves catalogs! With 4 kids I would hide in the bathroom reading catalogs too. lol Thanks for the $.02 glad to hear that not only handy people are glad to buy a finished product but also that there are people in this community that have no handy skills as myself and just want to buy something that works.

I am thinking of buying the Subdude HD for my down-firing sub. It has a port on the front.

My house is on a concrete slab. The room where the sub rests is carpeted...Berber carpet to be exact. My wife recently starting noticing that there is substantial vibration in a particular wall. On one side of this wall you have our living room with the sub positioned along this wall. On the other side of this wall...my toddler son's bedroom with his bed positioned along this wall. I hope I am describing this clearly enough.

I've moved the sub out as far as I can. Moving it to another location is not an option. Would the Subdude reduce this vibration in the wall? I am assuming that the vibration is traveling through the floor and into this wall that sits about 11-12 inches behind it.

Thank you.

I'm curious if the SubDude would make much of a difference with the BIC V1020 which has spikes, on a carpeted concrete floor? Anyone with a similar floor have any experience? Thank you.

I just received my subdude hd - seems to be made very well. I would not even attempt to make something like this. You spend thousands on speakers, etc and cheap out on the Subdude. I mean come on... Your not going to make something that looks as good!

I would not even attempt to make something like this.Why? Buying a peice of MDF, covering it with some carpet, and attaching a few pieces of foam to the bottom is not exactly a tough project to anyone who isn't *totally* mechanically disinclined.

I mean, if a trip to the hardware store and one or two hours of your time isn't worth saving 30 or 40 bucks, then the SubDude is a good deal, sureYou spend thousands on speakers, etc and cheap out on the Subdude.To me, at least, there's a big difference between spending money on something like a speaker that's a little involved in terms of engineering and design and spending $50 on a piece of carpet-covered wood that can't be more than a few dollars in materials to a company that buys in bulk.

Also, my mains cost me $129 each, and the total cost of my entire system is well under a grand. So a SubDude is almost half what I spent on my mains, and more than I spent on my surrounds.I mean come on... Your not going to make something that looks as good!You're right... a lot of DIY'ers could probably make something that looks a lot better and is custom sized to fit their sub.

I just received my subdude hd - seems to be made very well. I would not even attempt to make something like this. You spend thousands on speakers, etc and cheap out on the Subdude. I mean come on... Your not going to make something that looks as good!

I have to agree for the most part with you. Made very well-Yes...Not even attempt-No....Spend thousands on Speakers then cheap out on the SubDude-Yes I agree bad idea.... Not going to look as good-Yes

Bottom line is I was back and forth over and over about this. I have 2 Epik Phoenix Subs. They are down firing subs that sit on rubber feet that are approx 20"x20" Does Auralex make anything that can fit this? I wrote to Auralex to find out and I got a big "NO" As nice as the guy was all he could do was recommend that one of their outsource shops build me a custom one. It would have been $100 or more plus I needed 2 of them. So I looked and looked and looked and even posted in another section, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1204176, of this forum looking for the patented PlatFoam that Auralex uses for their SubDudes. Well I had a guy post where I can buy that foam in a sheet for $35 dollars and it will be enough to make my own SubDudes which I will complete next week. I went to the local lumber store and bought the exact same 3/4" MDF fiberboard Auralex uses and had it cut to size by a handy-man friend of mine and I will cover the bottom will 1 full 1" layer and then add 4"x4"x1" feet as a 2nd layer at each corner. In my case my sub is large enough to cover any cosmetics of my custom SubDude but I firmly believe that I will have made almost to the spec of what they would have sold me for over $100 bucks a piece. My investment so far is $57 and of course my time which isn't so valuable for something like this because I am doing my hobby of Home Stereo so it isn't like work if you know what I mean.

In closing I would like to add that "IF" my sub would have been a different size and/or the SubDude, Gramma, or Great Gramma would have been the correct size I would have NEVER attempted to make my own. I would have purchased a finished product, like "Geek from NJ" said there is no reason to pay thousands for speakers and not spend another $50 for the finished product. I have nothing against do-it-yourself'ers I just wanted to support "Geek from NJ" and retailers. I also feel that if you DIY and don't use the PATENTED PlatFoam made my Auralex you are not getting the proper isolation you think you are.

I agree with the last few posts. I am an extremely hand guy but my time is money, I'm in sales. So I can spend 1 hour drumming up a new client which could be worth thousands or f around trying to make a subdude or anything else for that matter. If your retired, paid a salary, etc or need a specific size thats a different story. I am redoing some big projects at the house and saving money money on labor, etc where it warrants it. I placed my Ultracube 12 on the Subdude and did some treatments at the same time. I like that its now raised up off the floor. Does it sound better... To my ears yes but I just spent $60 bucks so I am sure its my imaginatation to a certain degree. Being off the floor means the gf will not scuff my sub when she vaccums. Thats a plus right there! The Geek

I have to agree for the most part with you. Made very well-Yes...Not even attempt-No....Spend thousands on Speakers then cheap out on the SubDude-Yes I agree bad idea.... Not going to look as good-Yes

Bottom line is I was back and forth over and over about this. I have 2 Epik Phoenix Subs. They are down firing subs that sit on rubber feet that are approx 20"x20" Does Auralex make anything that can fit this? I wrote to Auralex to find out and I got a big "NO" As nice as the guy was all he could do was recommend that one of their outsource shops build me a custom one. It would have been $100 or more plus I needed 2 of them. So I looked and looked and looked and even posted in another section, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1204176, of this forum looking for the patented PlatFoam that Auralex uses for their SubDudes. Well I had a guy post where I can buy that foam in a sheet for $35 dollars and it will be enough to make my own SubDudes which I will complete next week. I went to the local lumber store and bought the exact same 3/4" MDF fiberboard Auralex uses and had it cut to size by a handy-man friend of mine and I will cover the bottom will 1 full 1" layer and then add 4"x4"x1" feet as a 2nd layer at each corner. In my case my sub is large enough to cover any cosmetics of my custom SubDude but I firmly believe that I will have made almost to the spec of what they would have sold me for over $100 bucks a piece. My investment so far is $57 and of course my time which isn't so valuable for something like this because I am doing my hobby of Home Stereo so it isn't like work if you know what I mean.

In closing I would like to add that "IF" my sub would have been a different size and/or the SubDude, Gramma, or Great Gramma would have been the correct size I would have NEVER attempted to make my own. I would have purchased a finished product, like "Geek from NJ" said there is no reason to pay thousands for speakers and not spend another $50 for the finished product. I have nothing against do-it-yourself'ers I just wanted to support "Geek from NJ" and retailers. I also feel that if you DIY and don't use the PATENTED PlatFoam made my Auralex you are not getting the proper isolation you think you are.
I was in the same boat. The Auralex Subdudes did not fit my subs properly. So I made my own DIY Subdudes. I was able to replicate the patented plat foam. The foam is surrounded by 2.5 inches of Oak. The foam sticks out approx 1/4in to 1/2in below the wood. In combination with the carpet it cannot be seen. It took some thinking and work, but was worth it. I still think I came out ahead making my own. Im fairly sure they function just as good as the original.I have 4 15inch subs in one room and it sounds a lot better. Here is a picture of the DIY
Subdude.

Thanks for the detailed testing and posting the results. It's nice to see some data that corresponds with user reports.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to repeat some of these tests using tennis balls underneath the sub in place of your homemade platform? I've issued this challenge in the past, but nobody has ever taken it up. It's based off of an old Stereophile-suggested tweak. It would be nice to see a data-based comparison.

Scott

Dude, I just wanted to say thanks. Not only did your suggestion greatly reduce my subs boominess/floor vibrations (bloody hollow floors), making the overall stereo image way more accurate, but the fact they worked so surprisingly well cracked me up to boot. I've no doubt a subdude would do a better job, but i'm happy. I love my Z5500's even more now.

Here's to tennis balls and being a cheapskate.

http://sites.google.com/site/theliability/tennisballsftw.png?attredirects=0

Dude, I just wanted to say thanks. Not only did your suggestion greatly reduce my subs boominess/floor vibrations (bloody hollow floors), making the overall stereo image way more accurate, but the fact they worked so surprisingly well cracked me up to boot. I've no doubt a subdude would do a better job, but i'm happy. I love my Z5500's even more now.

Here's to tennis balls and being a cheapskate.

http://sites.google.com/site/theliability/tennisballsftw.png?attredirects=0Thanks for posting your results, and I'm glad to hear that it worked for you.

I'd still really like to see someone who owns a Subdude do a blind comparison with tennis balls, though.

I posted the request years ago in this thread, and nobody's taken up the challenge yet. :(

Scott

I guess some people like to save just for the sake of saving. I would make a subdude just as a learning experience, but I'm not going to spend half a day figuring out how to create one simply to save $30.

I am considering getting a gramma (the subdude is too small for my SVS PB10-NSD and the gramma seems to be the exact same thing only bigger and less "pretty").

I have two goals, the first being the primary reason.

1) To get stop the sub from vibrating my ceiling mounted projector.

2) to get rid of some window rattle.


Will a gramma help accomplish #1? I really didn't even notice the picture distortion until last night when I was coincidentally looking up close at the projectors menu while running a bass heavy action sequence. I saw the text from the menu blur a bit with each sub hit. Not something I ever noticed from a seated position, but would like to eliminate it. Would this work as well or better than a rubber gasket between the mount and the ceiling? I'd prefer not to have to unbolt the mount is possible. I am also hoping this might stop my lens shift from "shifting".


Also, I have concerns about a reduction in tactile response. I've read through this thread and a few reviews elsewhere and seen both opinions. On on hand, decoupling would mean less energy transferred to the walls and floor which would seem to mean more transfer through the air. I am just not sure if the tactile feeling is more from room pressurization or from feeling the sub vibrating structures and then to your body.

Any comments, opinions, or help would be great!

It should help to cut down on the vibrations from blurring the image from the projector. Maybe not a 100%. It won't cancel the vibrations traveling through the air. As far as the sound goes, it should help to clean and tighten the bass. Having the bass vibrating the walls and floor may seem cool but it is actually coloring the actual sound you are hearing. I was amazed at the difference in sound after installing my DIY Subdudes.

Yes very much so. The Gramma/SubDude is designed to separate the subwoofer cabinet from the floor therefor will keep resonating waves from traveling to the ceiling and vibrating the projector. If the projector is vibrating due to the SPL of the sub then you are not going to need the Gramma/SubDude lol. As for the window rattle it will lessen it but will not get rid of it. There is to many sound waves that will resonate the glass so there will still be some rattle happening. Good luck with your purchase it is highly recommended.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that less transfer to the structure is certainly a good thing. Cleaner bass is certainly a good thing. I just wonder if it will cause a drop in that "visceral feel"?

Should I be prepared for that? I'm sure I'll need to recalibrate again, but did you guys notice a drop in SPL level when checking with meter, and therefore the need to boost your gain once you installed this?

Also, the room is carpeted, so will it still be an improvement?

You will need to re-calibrate after wards. I know I noticed a huge sound difference with my 2 Phoenix Subs but they are downfiring ports. I do know that most other SVS owners that purchased a Gramma/SubDude were very please with all the results.

i have 2x Danley DTS-10's on 2 Auralex Gramma's each they work great and killed the rattle i had before.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that less transfer to the structure is certainly a good thing. Cleaner bass is certainly a good thing. I just wonder if it will cause a drop in that "visceral feel"?

Should I be prepared for that? I'm sure I'll need to recalibrate again, but did you guys notice a drop in SPL level when checking with meter, and therefore the need to boost your gain once you installed this?

Also, the room is carpeted, so will it still be an improvement?

Yes they will still help on carpeting. You may or may not need to recalibrate. Its sort of an as needed basis. The visceral feel may go down slightly, but nothing to worry about. Most of that will be the sounds that you where trying to get rid of from the walls and floor. You can usually run your sub or subs hotter after installing a Subdude if you feel the need. You will be doing away with many of the bad frequencies that the walls and floor where giving off making the sound cleaner. The sound waves in the air should still give you a great experience and feel. Once you clean up a room by doing away with negative sounds that heavy bass causes you will never go back. At least I won't.

Well,

For $50, it's worth a shot to try and solve several issues! I'll be ordering a gramma tongiht.....would rather get the subdude HD due to aesthetics, but I need the size of the gramma. Good news is that the gramma is actually almost the exact dimensions of my PB10-NSD, so I won't really see it anyway.

I'll report back when I get it and have a chance to evaluate it, specifically if it eliminates the projector vibrations. I have to imagine there are many people that have that issue!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=169194&stc=1&d=1267931429
Thats my sub's, each resting on top of 2 auralex gramma's.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=169194&stc=1&d=1267931429
Thats my sub's, each resting on top of 2 auralex gramma's.


Let me guess, you really REALLY like bass! Very nice!

I've a single story home fully carpeted ontop of a concrete slab (I'm assuming - it's pretty damn hard to me LOL) ... I'm using sealed Epik Empires (side firing). Will I benefit at all with these?

Thanks!

Edit: The Empires have opposing 15" drivers with zero cabinet vibration. After a little more digging, I'm guessing these will do nothing for me other than raise them off the ground a few inches, correct assumption? :)

...The Empires have opposing 15" drivers with zero cabinet vibration. After a little more digging, I'm guessing these will do nothing for me other than raise them off the ground a few inches, correct assumption? :)

Correct. A well built opposed sub design should completely negate the requirement for one of these gizmos...

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

I have my Paradigm Ultracube 12 on carpet over wood floors with a crawl space. And I think it made a very noticable difference. First off it raised it off the carpet and its a down firing sub, secound it reduced vibrations, and third and least or most important I think my neighbors benefited as she doesnt notice it as much when turned up. I think its worth it, UNLESS maybe your on a concrete slab. Then I dont know how much it will help. Buy It! You spend thousands on equipment and speakers so whats the big deal. Plus it looks cool... Mike

Looking to get one. Where's the best place to buy one?

www.sweetwater.com they have them and it was shipped out fast BUY IT!

I live in an old upstairs apartment with wood floors and just got an Onkyo ht-s3200 which has a 8 inch downward firing sub taking 110 watts.

My biggest concern is upsetting the downstairs neighbor with bass

Would the Subdude help diminish sound to my downstairs neighbor or is my sub to small for it to matter?

I have the sub 3 feet from the floor now because I'm a little paranoid.

I live in an old upstairs apartment with wood floors and just got an Onkyo ht-s3200 which has a 8 inch downward firing sub taking 110 watts.

My biggest concern is upsetting the downstairs neighbor with bass

Would the Subdude help diminish sound to my downstairs neighbor or is my sub to small for it to matter?

I have the sub 3 feet from the floor now because I'm a little paranoid.

A wood floor is the worst for vibrations. Using a Subdude should help, but will not be a 100% cure for upsetting your neighbors. That sub is small but I think it would be a good idea to get a Subdude anyway.

A Subdude will do nothing to help with your neighbor. I always wonder why people with subs don't look for townhomes or at the least, downstairs apartments?

A Subdude will do nothing to help with your neighbor. I always wonder why people with subs don't look for townhomes or at the least, downstairs apartments?

A Subdude will help the vibrations from traveling through the floor and possibly bothering the neighbors that way. The waves traveling through the air are another problem that the Subdude will not help. It will help, but not a complete cure. His sub is small so it has an even better chance of helping.

Glad this thread is still active. Heard a recconendation for the subdude somewhere else on AVS but hadn't really understood the benefit. Then the other day I was listening to some of my favorite bass-heavy scenes with my JL Fathom f113. My only complaint? The rattling of my cabinets and walls, I've knocked a set of pictures off the wall in the next room twice, and all the pictures on the wall in the room below are crooked after a movie.

So I'm really excited about the Subdude. Gonna order now.

And for everyone commenting on how ugly they make the sub, um, can't I just get a piece of black cloth and cover the Subdude and tuck it tight under the sub? Is that too obvious?

Glad this thread is still active. Heard a recconendation for the subdude somewhere else on AVS but hadn't really understood the benefit. Then the other day I was listening to some of my favorite bass-heavy scenes with my JL Fathom f113. My only complaint? The rattling of my cabinets and walls, I've knocked a set of pictures off the wall in the next room twice, and all the pictures on the wall in the room below are crooked after a movie.

So I'm really excited about the Subdude. Gonna order now.

And for everyone commenting on how ugly they make the sub, um, can't I just get a piece of black cloth and cover the Subdude and tuck it tight under the sub? Is that too obvious?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDudeHD/ This one comes in black, looks a bit better!

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDudeHD/ This one comes in black, looks a bit better!

It does, but the goofy looking part to me is the space. I ordered the Gramma since they were the same price and my sub is 16x19. I'll cover it with some black cloth and no one will ever notice it.

It does, but the goofy looking part to me is the space. I ordered the Gramma since they were the same price and my sub is 16x19. I'll cover it with some black cloth and no one will ever notice it.

Sounds good, I'll probably be getting the Gramma myself!

I made my own. Custom made to fit my subs perfectly. Have a look at the picture.

I made my own. Custom made to fit my subs perfectly. Have a look at the picture.

Very nice work. But why not cover the "feet" part? That's the part that's making everybody's sub look funny. If you just made a tight black skirt, it would be seamless and you wouldn't see the gray foam.

I like the feet.

Very nice work. But why not cover the "feet" part? That's the part that's making everybody's sub look funny. If you just made a tight black skirt, it would be seamless and you wouldn't see the gray foam.

Thanks for looking. I don't mind the feet. That is also a side view. In my design you really can't see the feet from the front that much. Here is a picture that shows them from the front.

Thanks for looking. I don't mind the feet. That is also a side view. In my design you really can't see the feet from the front that much. Here is a picture that shows them from the front.
Ah, I see now. I see A LOT of woofers! :D

very nice

I like the feet.
not your typical AVS statement, but a good one nonetheless!

Ah, I see now. I see A LOT of woofers! :D

very nice

There are some more woofers in the room that where left out in the other picture. You still can't see all of the surounds in this picture. My camera won't take a picture that wide.

There are some more woofers in the room that where left out in the other picture. You still can't see all of the surounds in this picture. My camera won't take a picture that wide.
That room looks like a lot of fun! You've got some mopads to angle your speakers like me.

That room looks like a lot of fun! You've got some mopads to angle your speakers like me.

Those Mopads made a huge difference. Once I set the angle on them the tweeters where aligned much better to the listening position and improved the front sound stage imaging a lot.

Yep, my LCRs are down low inside a Salamander cabinet and the mopads angle them up and isolate them from the cabinet. A good purchase.

Thanks for the advice- I think I will try out the subdude and see what happens.

I thought you guys might get a kick out of my temporary solution- which seems to be working surprising well. No floor vibrations at moderate volumes!

Question? I highly recommend the Subdude... However my dad is waiting for his HSU VTF 1 to be deleivered this week. He is placing the sub on a ground level concrete slab. Would there be any benefit in placing his sub on a SUBDUDE?

My Comment: I have noted above that I own a Subedude and have it placed under my Paradigm Ultracube 12. But I am on carpet and have a wood floor / crawl space. It def. made a difference in this situation. I highly recommend buying one... If you read my comments above it 100% made a difference.

But what about on a concrete slab? Any Benefit or wasting my dads money?

One way I know it worked in my situtation is I have an airvent on the floor. Without a Subdude it rattles like crazy, with it it only rattles if I really crank up the gain on the sub and try to make it rattle. Just wanted to mention this... Plus it fits my Ultracube perfectly and looks very cool.

Question? I highly recommend the Subdude... However my dad is waiting for his HSU VTF 1 to be deleivered this week. He is placing the sub on a ground level concrete slab. Would there be any benefit in placing his sub on a SUBDUDE?

My Comment: I have noted above that I own a Subedude and have it placed under my Paradigm Ultracube 12. But I am on carpet and have a wood floor / crawl space. It def. made a difference in this situation. I highly recommend buying one... If you read my comments above it 100% made a difference.

But what about on a concrete slab? Any Benefit or wasting my dads money?

I have concrete floors with carpet. my system is quite new and when I first used it with spikes only, my neighbour left a message through my door complaining of the noise/rattling coming through to her house. since I got the Sub dude I haven't heard a peep from her..................Yet!!! as I might crank it up a bit more soon ;)

But what about on a concrete slab? Any Benefit or wasting my dads money?
I read this whole thread last night. I know at least 5-6 guys had the same question. Not sure anyone had an absolute answer. My guess is that it would still help some, maybe just not as much as if it were upstairs or on wood. If he has unwanted rattles/vibrations, it should help that.

I used a Gramma under my sub in a basement room, carpet over concrete. I was happy with the result. Prior to using, pictures on the wall and a clock would tilt after playing movies. After they not only did not move, but I felt my bass was tighter, with reduced booming.

I know some have said it won't make a difference over concrete, but for me it worked. Everyone's application will be different. I would try it and see if it works.

I read this whole thread last night. I know at least 5-6 guys had the same question. Not sure anyone had an absolute answer. My guess is that it would still help some, maybe just not as much as if it were upstairs or on wood. If he has unwanted rattles/vibrations, it should help that.

There have been reports that a Subdude does in fact help on a concrete floor. Concrete does transmit vibrations even though it is dense . I would recommend using one on a concrete floor.

Will the gramma hold a large speaker, such as Dali Ikon 7's?

Im worried they might tip over?

Also, would I see a difference even though Im using spikes for my speakers?

Thanks

Will the gramma hold a large speaker, such as Dali Ikon 7's?

Im worried they might tip over?

Also, would I see a difference even though Im using spikes for my speakers?

Thanks

I have JTR Quintuples resting on 2 of my Auralex Gramma pads. The dimensions of mine are 43″x12.25″x16.5″ and they weigh 118lbs each. No issues with tipping over for me.

Will the gramma hold a large speaker, such as Dali Ikon 7's?

Im worried they might tip over?

Also, would I see a difference even though Im using spikes for my speakers?

Thanks

Do you mean spikes (on carpet), versus no spikes and speakers set directly on Gramma?

On carpet, I find my speakers are very stable on spikes. Depends how heavy your speakers are, maybe. Mine aren't too heavy, and without the spikes (same flat surface as the bottom of my tower stands) they are pretty wobbly in comparison. I would guess they would be about as stable on the carpet on the gramma as they are just sitting on the carpet without spikes.

I don't know how much sound transmits through the spikes to the floor, so I don't know if the gramma would help with speakers in that sense.

Can someone help me choose which auralex platform to get.

I want to isolate my Dali Ikon 7 speakers more in my room. As my room is a second floor room that is over my garage. You can imagine the vibrations I get when I play my music loud, with my speakers sitting on a susupended floor.

Right now I have my Dali speakers on spikes.

I was either thinking of the...
AuraLex subdude
OR
AuraLux Gramma

Any of these will work better the supplied dali spikes, right? Resulting in less muddled bass, right?

Can someone help me choose which auralex platform to get.

I want to isolate my Dali Ikon 7 speakers more in my room. As my room is a second floor room that is over my garage. You can imagine the vibrations I get when I play my music loud, with my speakers sitting on a susupended floor.

Right now I have my Dali speakers on spikes.

I was either thinking of the...
AuraLex subdude
OR
AuraLux Gramma

Any of these will work better the supplied dali spikes, right? Resulting in less muddled bass, right?

This mostly depends upon the dimensions of your speakers and assumes not too much overlap that might result in instability. If you have a subwoofer, I would treat that first.

Just ordered the Gramma for my Outlaw LFM-1 for my upstairs apartment. Everything rattles alot so I'm curious to see if I will have an improvement.

Same here. Ordered two GRAMMA's from Sweetwater that are due to arrive tomorrow for my two JL F113's. I have a similar problem with my upstairs HT room. My S/O hates the rattling and feeling everything is going to fall apart, so hope this will settle some of those issues.

Can someone help me choose which auralex platform to get.

I want to isolate my Dali Ikon 7 speakers more in my room. As my room is a second floor room that is over my garage. You can imagine the vibrations I get when I play my music loud, with my speakers sitting on a susupended floor.

Right now I have my Dali speakers on spikes.

I was either thinking of the...
AuraLex subdude
OR
AuraLux Gramma

Any of these will work better the supplied dali spikes, right? Resulting in less muddled bass, right?

Gramma is for subs. You need these.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_mopad/sound_isolation_mopad.asp

Would there be a difference between using the foam that came in the package with the subwoofer to make a platform and just building a regular platform with wood feet on each corner? (thinking more aesthetics than anything else with that one) I am just not sure how much the "type" of foam makes a difference vs just getting the sub up off the floor or a dedicated platform with minimal contact to the floor.

Would there be a difference between using the foam that came in the package with the subwoofer to make a platform and just building a regular platform with wood feet on each corner? (thinking more aesthetics than anything else with that one) I am just not sure how much the "type" of foam makes a difference vs just getting the sub up off the floor or a dedicated platform with minimal contact to the floor.

If there were no difference, then Auralex isolators are all hype. The GRAMMA was developed to be used by rock musicians who had to play on unpredictable surfaces ranging from the highly vibrating wooden floor to something a lot more solid and everything in between. There are enough testimonials from these users so that the only valid conclusion is that it does make a significant difference and from there to a subwoofer is not a huge leap of faith and won't cost a small fortune.

Would there be a difference between using the foam that came in the package with the subwoofer to make a platform and just building a regular platform with wood feet on each corner? (thinking more aesthetics than anything else with that one) I am just not sure how much the "type" of foam makes a difference vs just getting the sub up off the floor or a dedicated platform with minimal contact to the floor.

Making a Subdude with just wooden feet will not yield the same results as the foam that the original Subdude has. I made my own Subdudes. I have a special method of replicating the foam that is on the original. They work just like the original Subdude does. The wood surrounds are just to hide the foam. The wood doesn't touch the floor.

Would there be a difference between using the foam that came in the package with the subwoofer to make a platform and just building a regular platform with wood feet on each corner? (thinking more aesthetics than anything else with that one) I am just not sure how much the "type" of foam makes a difference vs just getting the sub up off the floor or a dedicated platform with minimal contact to the floor.

There is a difference between your packing foam and the foam auralex uses, but you can certainly do a DIY version using your own foam -- and you'll probably get some benefit from that. If you have some extra time on your hands, and a little wood for the platform, you've got nothing to lose to try this free experiment.

Note that the packing foam is probably NOT fire-retardant and this would actually be my biggest concern. Adding flammable material to a piece of furniture is not a very good idea, imo.

Chip in with a few friends and buy the Plat-Foam kit: http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_platfoam/sound_isolation_platfoam.asp

You can build a lot of isolators from that.

The only reason I really ask is because the Auralex gramma is about 1.5" too narrow for the sub I want to use it with. The great gramma would be WAY too big for my application so I was trying to go custom... That being said, would there be any down-side to buying a gramma and placing the adequate size base on top of it? (Meaning cutting a board the same length and width of my sub and placing that on top of the Gramma.)

Would this diminish the returns of the original product?

Having a little over hang should not cause any sound issues. It may visually bother you. That is the reason I went the DIY route. As for cutting another piece of wood and placing it on top. I don't see any issues with that.

The only reason I really ask is because the Auralex gramma is about 1.5" too narrow for the sub I want to use it with. The great gramma would be WAY too big for my application so I was trying to go custom... That being said, would there be any down-side to buying a gramma and placing the adequate size base on top of it? (Meaning cutting a board the same length and width of my sub and placing that on top of the Gramma.)

Would this diminish the returns of the original product?

I did the same thing with a previous sub which overhung the subdude 2.5" front and back. The only issue could be if you had kids or pets that might wanna play it it as it will be a little less stable. If that's not a factor then no worries.

For those of you who make custom subdudes, can you please post your pics? I am very curious to see what you have created.

For those of you who make custom subdudes, can you please post your pics? I am very curious to see what you have created.

Heres are pictures of my DIY Subdude. They where also in post #734. Just in case you missed them.

As for cutting another piece of wood and placing it on top. I don't see any issues with that.

I directly inquired about this from Auralex and their tech support answer was that they did not suggest it because the additional wood might interfere with the effectiveness of the GRAMMA or SubDude. If the subwoofer does not have feet and the bottom is flat then the GRAMMA should work fine. If the subwoofer has feet and is downward firing and those feet will not fit on top of one GRAMMA then you will need two of them, whether SubDudes or GRAMMAs. You can have a gap between two Auralex isolators that are side by side.

I directly inquired about this from Auralex and their tech support answer was that they did not suggest it because the additional wood might interfere with the effectiveness of the GRAMMA or SubDude. If the subwoofer does not have feet and the bottom is flat then the GRAMMA should work fine. If the subwoofer has feet and is downward firing and those feet will not fit on top of one GRAMMA then you will need two of them, whether SubDudes or GRAMMAs. You can have a gap between two Auralex isolators that are side by side.


i cant have two of them It would interfere with the look of the room. I guess I am going to have to either try the Wood on top of the Gramma or attempt to make my own... Suggestions?:confused:

I directly inquired about this from Auralex and their tech support answer was that they did not suggest it because the additional wood might interfere with the effectiveness of the GRAMMA or SubDude. If the subwoofer does not have feet and the bottom is flat then the GRAMMA should work fine. If the subwoofer has feet and is downward firing and those feet will not fit on top of one GRAMMA then you will need two of them, whether SubDudes or GRAMMAs. You can have a gap between two Auralex isolators that are side by side.

Im really not here to dispute the information that you got from Auralex. If you would. Please explain why, in scientific terms how adding another piece of wood to eliminate over hang will negatively effect the Subdudes performance. The deck of a Subdude is made from MDF. If the OP where to add another piece of MDF on top. What is the issue? As long as the two pieces of wood don't resonate together from bass vibrations. The OP may need to cover the second piece of wood with some sort of material to make sure that the boards don't vibrate together. This seems like it should not happen very easily because of the subs weight. If your theory is correct then subs with extensive extra internal bracing and double thick baffles would cause issues. They are glue together in these instance. So it is a little different. But it works just the opposite. It adds strength and cuts down on vibration. Do you even use Subdudes, or constructed your own like I have? Of course Auralex would rather you use 2 Subdudes vs 1. They are a good company and I do like their products. This is not to bash Auralex.

Im really not here to dispute the information that you got from Auralex. If you would. Please explain why, in scientific terms how adding another piece of wood to eliminate over hang will negatively effect the Subdudes performance. The deck of a Subdude is made from MDF. If the OP where to add another piece of MDF on top. What is the issue? As long as the two pieces of wood don't resonate together from bass vibrations. The OP may need to cover the second piece of wood with some sort of material to make sure that the boards don't vibrate together. This seems like it should not happen very easily because of the subs weight. If your theory is correct then subs with extensive extra internal bracing and double thick baffles would cause issues. They are glue together in these instance. So it is a little different. But it works just the opposite. It adds strength and cuts down on vibration. Do you even use Subdudes, or constructed your own like I have? Of course Auralex would rather you use 2 Subdudes vs 1. They are a good company and I do like their products. This is not to bash Auralex.

That is what they replied. Just go onto the Auralex website and find tech support and ask your question about the board on top of the GRAMMA or SubDude via e-mail. I thought the same thing too, but ended up buying two GRAMMAs because my subwoofer is downward firing, wider than 23", and the feet had to be there to slightly elevate it from the floor. Or this could have been a bunch of hocus pocus, relative to the extra board. :)

i cant have two of them It would interfere with the look of the room. I guess I am going to have to either try the Wood on top of the Gramma or attempt to make my own... Suggestions?:confused:

One inexpensive suggestion would be to decouple the subwoofer by raising it off of the floor and see how that sounds. You could use a small table that would hold it or go down to the local hardware store and buy four of those plastic coasters with plastic spikes in them to put below the feet of a sofa or couch, assuming that you have a carpeted floor.

That is what they replied. Just go onto the Auralex website and find tech support and ask your question about the board on top of the GRAMMA or SubDude via e-mail. I thought the same thing too, but ended up buying two GRAMMAs because my subwoofer is downward firing, wider than 23", and the feet had to be there to slightly elevate it from the floor. Or this could have been a bunch of hocus pocus, relative to the extra board. :)

Thanks for the suggestion of sending them an email. The issue really does not apply to me or my equipment anymore. There suggestion of using two Subdudes per sub would not fit in my space either. I have four subs co-located in my room. 2 Subdudes per sub would never work. I still think there answer is BS. Saving space is why I made my own. They are custom made to fit MY SUBS. Neither yourself or Auralex has given me or anyone else an explanation of how this scientifically would make a difference in performance. I don't expect graphs or numbers or anything complicated. Just a simple explanation of why.

Well, I guess I am going to have to see how creative I can get :) I don't want to take away from the beauty of the subs and how they are integrated into my living room decor...

Well, I guess I am going to have to see how creative I can get :) I don't want to take away from the beauty of the subs and how they are integrated into my living room decor...

DIY on!!!!! It's really not all that difficult. If you are interested in a design like mine. I will try to help out with any questions you may have. I give total credit to Auralex for the Subdude. I just modified their design to custom fit my subs and tried to make them look a little better.

jrunr, you are getting seaton submersives, correct?

you will not need isolation... the submersives are inert... using an isolation pad is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the slightest...

personal example...

my room in on the second floor of a 107 year old brick house. it has pine wood floors, nailed into the joists... things WANT to pick up physical vibrations in here...

my previous sub was (is, still have it) a paradigm servo15v2... no slouch in it's own right... stuffing a great gramma under it eliminated a lot of rattles in the room, due to decoupling the sub from the floor...

however, my submersive doesn't vibrate a BIT... there are no vibrations to transfer to the floor... i'm not unique in this... one of the things that "makes" a submersive is the inert cabinet....

i WOULD suggest you put them on furniture sliders until you get them basically where you want them... that makes them a LOT easier to move... ;)