My InFocus ScreenPlay 333 arrived today, so I thought I'd start a thread devoted to it.

Yes, you read that right--the InFocus ScreenPlay 333, little brother of the 777.

Although I wouldn't exactly call this monster... little. :eek: Here you see the box in which the 333 arrived. Just to give you a hint of the scale, I put an ordinary household toaster on the left for comparison. :D
http://www.scottgammans.net/scooterplex2/screenplay-1.jpg

Here is the flying saucer unpacked and sitting on the island in my kitchen/family room. That's a 42" wide countertop the 333 is sitting on... as you can see, like its big brother the 333 is no shrinking violet.
http://www.scottgammans.net/scooterplex2/screenplay-2.jpg
http://www.scottgammans.net/scooterplex2/screenplay-3.jpg

Here's all the goodies you get in the 333 shipping crate--which is to say, not a whole lot! A power cord, a remote, two AAA batteries and a thin installation manual. Oh yeah, and the 333. The lack of printed matter is no biggie, imho... since the 333 is functionally identical to the 777, you can download the complete installation manual for the 777 from the InFocus website.
http://www.scottgammans.net/scooterplex2/screenplay-4.jpg

Other than the sheer bulk of my new flying saucer, I have to say my initial impressions of the 333 are highly favorable. I definitely wouldn't call it a quiet projector, but considering the light output it's acceptable. Also, the 333 was in my very "live" family room--I think when it's positioned in its new home in my sound-optimized HT the noise will be even less noticeable.

As for the picture quality, I'll post screenshots when the 333 is installed and properly calibrated, but I have to say that the 3100-lumen rated output is no lie--this is a BRIGHT projector. I already have two ND filters on order, and I'm definitely going to need 'em. Even projecting an eight-foot-wide image on my dark brown living room walls was not enough to attenuate the light output of this photon cannon. I can't wait to see what the picture looks like with proper calibration on a proper screen, but if tonight's sneak peek is any indication it should be spectacular.

Speaking of installing the 333, I think I seriously underestimated the level of effort required for installing this beast on my home theater's ceiling. Anybody wanna recommend a good installer (with a strong back) in the Washington, DC area?! :confused:

p.s. For everyone who has been PM-ing me about where to buy the 333, the sponsors of this forum are selling it... click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018).

Why do you call it little brother of 777? it's a sp777+Kodak softwares.

MC6,

At 3100 Lumens it is actually brighter as well. I am guessing that they traded some contrast for lumens in the design.

Scott,

I can't get any info on the unit. It is very interesting. How did you acquire it without having to buy the Kodak stuff to go with it?

-Mr. Wigggles

MC6,

At 3100 Lumens it is actually brighter as well. I am guessing that they traded some contrast for lumens in the design.

Scott,

I can't get any info on the unit. It is very interesting. How did you acquire it without having to buy the Kodak stuff to go with it?

-Mr. Wigggles


it's AVS's powerbuy, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018. it's almost twice the brightness of the 777 and maintain a CR of 3200:1

MC6, I call it the "little brother" of the 777 because it uses earlier-generation DMDs than the currently-shipping 777 (still trying to nail down whether they're the DC2 or the HD2+) and has a lower contrast rating (3000:1 vs. the 777's 5000:1). Also, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the "Kodak color science" software is--whether it's firmware built into the 333 or software that has to be externally-loaded. If it's software there is definitely some stuff missing from my box because what came in the box is what you saw in that last photo I posted.

MrWigggles, normally I'd remind you that forum rules prohibit me from telling you "where to buy", but in this particular case I don't think Alan would mind... click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018). :)

MC6, I call it the "little brother" of the 777 because it uses earlier-generation DMDs than the currently-shipping 777 (still trying to nail down whether they're the DC2 or the HD2+) and has a lower contrast rating (3000:1 vs. the 777's 5000:1). Also, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the "Kodak color science" software is--whether it's firmware built into the 333 or software that has to be externally-loaded. If it's software there is definitely some stuff missing from my box because what came in the box is what you saw in that last photo I posted.

MrWigggles, normally I'd remind you that forum rules prohibit me from telling you "where to buy", but in this particular case I don't think Alan would mind... click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018). :)

Scott

I talked to Alan early today, he said the 3200:1 CR by Koday is true measurement not factory spec, I think some ISF measured the 777dc3 to be something like 3500:1Cr in true measurement and I think WSR measured a 1800:1 cr of the older hd2 sp777. So the sp333 has similar cr as the sp777dc3. I have not done any measurment yet but I have done some a/b test with my Qualia 004, the contract and black are much better than the qualia, so the 3000+ cr seems to be accurate.

if you do -> manu -> picture -> advanced -> color tempeture
you see a column read -> performance. I think that's the Kodak software add to the sp333, I am not sure but that's the only different between the regular sp777 and the 333 I can find. May be Alan can command on this.

I don't think anything's missing, It's excertly the same as mine.

Mike

Aha! Got it. Alan PM'ed me earlier and confirmed that the Kodak color science software is built into the 333 and is not external software that needs to be loaded.

I can certainly believe the 3200:1 measured contrast after having done some more viewing. Even in its current uncalibrated state (and shining on a brown eggshell-finish wall, no less!) the picture is really something else.

I still can't help but think of the 333 as the little brother to the 777--after all, it is 444 less ;), there's no glowing "InFocus" sign on the case, and the cabinet finish is a flat matte black instead of the 777's shiny black and silver. Then again, I am very happy to pay a significantly lower price for the 333 in exchange for a less flashy case. :cool:

Now I just need to find an installer who will attach my new toy to the ceiling. :)

Scott,

What screen are you planning on using with this projector? How far from the projector to screen?

Thanks,

Jim Z

Congrats Scott! The Infocus has such a cool looking shell. Welcome to 3chip DLP high lumen/contrast. Enjoy... What screen are you going with?

Scott, if you just need someone to lift as you attach I can stop by. :)

Nigel

Scott,

What screen are you planning on using with this projector? How far from the projector to screen?

Thanks,

Jim Z

Congrats Scott! The Infocus has such a cool looking shell. Welcome to 3chip DLP high lumen/contrast. Enjoy... What screen are you going with?
I'm going to use a 72" x 128" Stewart UltraMatte 150 positioned just under 20 feet from the screen. For my reasoning behind using a relatively high gain screen like the UltraMatte with this photon howitzer, click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7040912&&#post7040912).

Scott, if you just need someone to lift as you attach I can stop by. :)

Nigel
Thanks for the offer, but I think I can round up enough strong-backed friends. What I'm more concerned about is whether the joists can support my flying saucer... which is why I'm leaning towards paying a professional installer.

For everyone who has been PM-ing me about where to buy the 333, the sponsors of this forum are selling it... click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018).

What I'm more concerned about is whether the joists can support my flying saucer... which is why I'm leaning towards paying a professional installer.
How heavy is this thing? I used to have a 225 lb. CRT hanging from the floor joists with no issues, and I seriously doubt that the 333 weighs more than that...;)

I'm going to use a 72" x 128" Stewart UltraMatte 150 positioned just under 20 feet from the screen.

Scott, are those measurements for a 2.35:1 screen? Are you going to run a constant height setup?

Can you comment on any significant differences you see while viewing 3 chip dlp vs the other implementations (single chip DLP, LCD Lcos etc.).

Congrats on your new toy, I'm doing my homework for my next upgrade and the brightness of 3 chip DLP seems to be a definite plus, although at 3100 lumens I might get a tan watching this thing on my Silverstar!

Regards

How heavy is this thing? I used to have a 225 lb. CRT hanging from the floor joists with no issues, and I seriously doubt that the 333 weighs more than that...;)
The 333 weighs as much as the 777--about 45 pounds. While that's certainly nowhere near your 225 pound behemoth (jeez--I'd be afraid to sit under THAT! :eek: ), you have to remember that I'm used to little bitty conference room-style projectors... my previous PJ was the XGA rez VT540, which my 333 would squash like a bug.

I guess my main concern is the width of the joists--they're those newfangled engineered wood joists, which are only about 2 to 2-1/2 inches wide. The mount I'm using--the Premier Mounts PBM-757L (http://www.premiermounts.com/PartData/Docs/PBM-757L.pdf)--is only connected to the joist by four wood screws, and what concerns me the most is that I'm not even sure that the screws will drive solidly into the joist instead being deflected to the side. This is the first time I've mounted a projector on the ceiling (my VT540 was a bookshelf installation), and I've really picked a doozy for my first time.

Scott, are those measurements for a 2.35:1 screen? Are you going to run a constant height setup?
No, the screen is 16:9. I didn't want to bother with a CH setup.

Can you comment on any significant differences you see while viewing 3 chip dlp vs the other implementations (single chip DLP, LCD Lcos etc.).
I'm fairly susceptible to rainbow artifacts, so obviously that's one thing I don't have to worry about with the 333 vs. single-chip DLP. And even though I'm projecting an uncalibrated image on the worst possible surface you can imagine (a brown wall with an eggshell paint finish) the color depth and contrast levels I'm seeing are startling. I can already tell that this projector will look amazing with proper calibration and a good projection surface.

Congrats on your new toy, I'm doing my homework for my next upgrade and the brightness of 3 chip DLP seems to be a definite plus, although at 3100 lumens I might get a tan watching this thing on my Silverstar!
That's what the ND filters are for. :) Keep in mind that as the projector bulb dims with age, I'll have the flexibility to go with progressively lighter ND filters, and then ultimately no filter at all. Even when the bulb is approaching the end of its service life, I'll still have an optimal picture because of the overhead this design affords.

OK - you guys sucked me in.

I was almost ready to buy a C3X Lite, but now this 333 sounds a whole lot more interesting. It will be way too bright for my 8ft wide screen, but I'd rather put an ND filter on it and wait for the bulb to dim.

Can someone please confirm:

1) That it has DC3 chips;

2) That it has equivalent CR to the 777 and/or the C3X;

3) What is the bulb life and cost;

4) What does the Kodak software do?

Thanks,
Phil

OK - you guys sucked me in.

I was almost ready to buy a C3X Lite, but now this 333 sounds a whole lot more interesting. It will be way too bright for my 8ft wide screen, but I'd rather put an ND filter on it and wait for the bulb to dim.

Can someone please confirm:

1) That it has DC3 chips;

2) That it has equivalent CR to the 777 and/or the C3X;

3) What is the bulb life and cost;

4) What does the Kodak software do?

Thanks,
Phil


1) No DC3 chip

2) Supposedly equal CR to the 777 as MEASURED (not what the brochure says). It's not equal CR to the C3X. Remember the 333 CR and Lumens specs are measured for EACH UNIT. These are real #s, not marketing #s.

3) Don't know.

4) Don't know.

OK - you guys sucked me in.

I was almost ready to buy a C3X Lite, but now this 333 sounds a whole lot more interesting. It will be way too bright for my 8ft wide screen, but I'd rather put an ND filter on it and wait for the bulb to dim.

Can someone please confirm:

1) That it has DC3 chips;
No--it's either got the DC2 or HD2+ (still trying to nail that down). But don't let that deter you...

2) That it has equivalent CR to the 777 and/or the C3X;
See the post MC6 made above (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7127332&&#post7127332)... Kodak's measured contrast was 3200:1, which compares very favorably with the 777.

3) What is the bulb life and cost;
Bulb life is rated at 1500 hours. Still trying to find out the cost, but I'm told by Alan that it's less than the $750 or so for a 777 bulb (see the AVS Powerbuy thread) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=641018).

4) What does the Kodak software do?
From what I can tell so far in my monkeying around with the service menus, Kodak's color science firmware is a leap in performance over the stock 777. I tried turning off the Kodak color enhancements (which are factory preset to 6500K and SMPTE C by default) and the picture looked washed out and flat. Others who have had their 333 longer may be able to expand on this, but I guess what I'm saying is that the out-of-the-box picture on the 333 is pretty darn accurate--and that's what you get with the Kodak firmware.

My seating is very close in relation to the size of my screen. I've got a 120" wide (137" diag) screen, the projector sits about 24ft away. Seating on the first row is 11' from the screen and 19' on the second row. What about SDE? Do you think SDE would be overbearing in my setup?

Keep in mind that the 333 is a DLP projector--screen door is minimal compared to an LCD projector. That said, you can still see the individual pixel elements if you get close enough, but with my temporary setup projecting an eight-foot-wide image, from ten feet away I couldn't see the individual pixels at all.

. . . I definitely wouldn't call it a quiet projector, but considering the light output it's acceptable. . .
Scott,

Can you qualify this somewhat? The 777 is whisper quiet. And the C3X isn't much louder. How does the 333 compare to those, or any other PJ I might be familiar with?

This could be a deal killer for me because it will be positioned almost directly above the seating position.

Thanks,
Phil

Others who have had their 333 longer may be able to expand on this, but I guess what I'm saying is that the out-of-the-box picture on the 333 is pretty darn accurate--and that's what you get with the Kodak firmware.
While I don't know the first thing about the Kodak firmware, I do know that InFocus products are normally calibrated to D65 before leaving the factory. I have owned and used several IF projectors, and all of them measured within dE of 5 (usually 4 or less) of D65 right out of the box. I think all you will need to do is to adjust for black and white levels and you will be done...:)
I guess my main concern is the width of the joists--they're those newfangled engineered wood joists, which are only about 2 to 2-1/2 inches wide. The mount I'm using--the Premier Mounts PBM-757L--is only connected to the joist by four wood screws, and what concerns me the most is that I'm not even sure that the screws will drive solidly into the joist instead being deflected to the side. This is the first time I've mounted a projector on the ceiling (my VT540 was a bookshelf installation), and I've really picked a doozy for my first time.
Scott, is the ceiling open (like in a cellar or above a dropped ceiling) or finished (plaster, etc.)?

Can you qualify this somewhat? The 777 is whisper quiet. And the C3X isn't much louder. How does the 333 compare to those, or any other PJ I might be familiar with?
It's hard to say since I've never seen the C3X in person and I don't have a 777 sitting next to the 333 to compare, but the 333 is definitely quieter than my old NEC VT540 (even when the VT540 is running in "Econo-Mode"), and it seems to be as quiet as the 777--but like I said, it's hard to compare a physically-present machine with the memory of what another machine sounded like. I certainly don't find the fan noise objectionable, and my rear row seating will only be three feet in front and six feet below the 333.

One thing you do need to take into consideration if you're going to be sitting next to the 333 is light spill. The 333 has a small amount of blue-hued light spilling through the exhaust vents on either side of the cabinet. It's not a LOT of spill, but in a totally darkened room it might be noticeable to someone sitting on either side of the projector.

While I don't know the first thing about the Kodak firmware, I do know that InFocus products are normally calibrated to D65 before leaving the factory. I have owned and used several IF projectors, and all of them measured within dE of 5 (usually 4 or less) of D65 right out of the box. I think all you will need to do is to adjust for black and white levels and you will be done...:)
Cool!

Scott, is the ceiling open (like in a cellar or above a dropped ceiling) or finished (plaster, etc.)?
Finished drywall. Should I have attached a plate of some sort to the joist before it was sealed up? Can't something like that just be screwed in on the finished side of the drywall?

Scott,

Can you qualify this somewhat? The 777 is whisper quiet. And the C3X isn't much louder. How does the 333 compare to those, or any other PJ I might be familiar with?

This could be a deal killer for me because it will be positioned almost directly above the seating position.

Thanks,
Phil


The 333 is louder than the 777, I am pretty sure. It might be due to it's higher light output, more cooling from the fans are needed. But like Scott said it's not objectionable.

FYI, Alan just posted the price of the replacement bulb in the 333 powerbuy thread--$615.

That's considerably less than the price you'd get from InFocus, and according to Alan it's the same lamp used in the 777 so 777 owners might want to take a look.

Finished drywall. Should I have attached a plate of some sort to the joist before it was sealed up? Can't something like that just be screwed in on the finished side of the drywall?
If you can access the other side of the ceiling (an attic maybe?), then just cut a piece of 2"X10" to just fit between the 2 joists (normally they are spaced 16" on center) and lay it down flat on the drywall where you want to attach your mount. Screw in the 2X10 from the sides of the joist and you will now have a plate with plenty of wood for the mount's screws to bite into.

If you can't access above the drywall and you don't mind mounting the plate on the "good" side of the ceiling, then you could just cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that would be large enough to straddle 2 joists, of course positioned properly so that you can attach your mount in the center of the plywood plate and then paint it to match your ceiling.

Regardless of which method you use, the key to relieving stress is to straddle across 2 joists, spreading the load of the weight. You may need to make some adjustments to your throw in order to attach the mount in the center of the plate (for aesthetic reasons), but with a little thought I am sure that you can figure it out. Forty five pounds is a very easy load for even a single joist to handle, and straddling 2 joists is actually overkill, but I always figure it is better to be safe than sorry.

You could also just make a much smaller plate, one big enough to attach your mount, but not any bigger than necessary, and then attach it to a single joist and you would probably never have a problem, but with such an expensive piece of gear, I always opt for a little less aesthetics and a LOT more security...;)

BTW, congratulations on your new purchase! Even though I recently bought a Ruby, with my affinity toward bright, punchy images, I think I'm jealous!

Ah, but you have a 1080p display, so it all evens out. :cool:

Since my HT is in the basement and I don't have easy access to the unfinished side of the drywall, I think I'll go with your second solution and straddle a plate across two of the joists. One of the nice features of the 333/777 is that they're laterally symmetrical--the lens is dead center in the middle of the cabinet. And it just so happens that the centerline of the screen is almost exactly between two of the joists, which saves me from having to buy Premier's side extender or employ the 333's motorized horizontal lens shift. Perfect!

I'm all in favor of an over-engineered solution that will give me peace of mind. Thanks Bob!

Bob,

After I read your suggestion I began to wonder how a mere square of 3/4" plywood would be able to support 50 pounds of downward pressure being exerted by only four closely-spaced screws (which are the only connection between the projector mount and the plywood), so I did some reading on 3/4" plywood... who knew that there were so many different types!

I found this article (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00016.asp) which discusses four different types of plywood: MDF core, veneer core, particleboard, and combined core. This sentence in particular caught my eye, though:Dimensional stability, screw-holding and bending strength of MDF or particleboard panels, however, are rated as "good" or "fair," compared with the "excellent" marks that veneer-core panels get. (emphasis mine)My carpenter had a nice, undamaged 20" x 20" piece of 3/4" MDF core plywood left over from the construction of the rear row seating stage that I thought I could use for the projector mount ceiling support, but after reading this I don't think I'll use it. I'm still dubious, though, that a plywood support won't crack down the middle and send my $10,000 projector crashing to the floor. Is veneer-core plywood really that strong??

If it were me, I'd cut the ceiling drywall, put in a 2x10 between the ceiling joists, and then repair and paint the ceiling. It's alot more work, but it will be stronger. Plus it will look a whole lot better.

If that's too ambitious for you, I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a handyman that would do it for less than $100. Money well spent IMHO.

Hope this helps,
Phil

" Is veneer-core plywood really that strong??"

Yep especially if you buy the 13-ply Baltic birch plywood (NOT at your local HD or Lowe's - you'll have to go a hardwood shop).
Good stuff, no voids and good looking too!

PS Awesome looking projector! Congrats, I'm jealous.

Thanks Phil and Andrikos.

Yep especially if you buy the 13-ply Baltic birch plywood (NOT at your local HD or Lowe's - you'll have to go a hardwood shop).
Good stuff, no voids and good looking too!

Sorry, Scott, I should have been more specific. As a hobby I build speakers and subwoofers, and I use the 13-ply Baltic Birch plywood exclusively in my projects. That's definitely the best stuff to use, and you can even get it in 1" thick panels, though it comes at a pretty hefty premium. Run of the mill 3/4" veneer core plywood (good on at least one side) will do the trick just fine and will be considerably cheaper. NEVER use MDF or particle board core for a project such as this, as screws can strip too easily in these materials. Solid MDF or MDF core plywood makes for excellent speaker cabinets though, as they are rock solid and resonate very little (a good thing :) ). Sorry about the confusion.

Not a problem. I talked to my carpenter and he agreed with you and Andrikos that the most straightforward solution would be to screw-attach a board of 13-ply baltic birch to the underside of the two joists. He says he can get a nice 20" x 30" board which will give me some flexibility on the exact positioning with regard to distance to the screen, and it will be more than strong enough for this particular application.

A special discount on replacement bulbs for the 333 & 777 is in the works. Will have details next week.

That's great news, Alan... thanks! :)

Bob,

After I read your suggestion I began to wonder how a mere square of 3/4" plywood would be able to support 50 pounds of downward pressure being exerted by only four closely-spaced screws (which are the only connection between the projector mount and the plywood), so I did some reading on 3/4" plywood... who knew that there were so many different types!

I found this article (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00016.asp) which discusses four different types of plywood: MDF core, veneer core, particleboard, and combined core. This sentence in particular caught my eye, though:My carpenter had a nice, undamaged 20" x 20" piece of 3/4" MDF core plywood left over from the construction of the rear row seating stage that I thought I could use for the projector mount ceiling support, but after reading this I don't think I'll use it. I'm still dubious, though, that a plywood support won't crack down the middle and send my $10,000 projector crashing to the floor. Is veneer-core plywood really that strong??Scott, Use verneer plywood, it is plenty strong to hold that PJ. DO NOT use MDF. Also, use bolts, nuts and washers to attach to the plywood. If you have a local fastener store, go get soem square drive 2 1/2 floor screws and attach the plywood to your joists with about 8 of those (4 each side). You can hook a small engine lift to that.

Good advice GetGray... thanks!

Anyone considering getting a 333 and want to save some more, see this post in the powerbuy:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7140632&&#post7140632

Scott

In the FWIW department, I did some more testing last night which really doesn't have a lot to do with the 333 itself but may be of interest to potential owners. A buddy with a Denon DVD-3910 upscaling DVD player and an HTPC brought both over so that we could do some A/B comparisons using the 333's "native" mode (which bypasses the projector's internal scaler and deinterlacer). The purpose of this comparison test was pretty simple: I wanted to see if I could tell the difference between an upscaling DVD player like the 3910 and an HTPC to help me decide whether I should spend a few thousand dollars on a scaler and an SDI-modified DVD player (which would presumably have at least as good performance as an HTPC without the inconvenience).

For our A/B testing we simultaneously played two copies of the same DVD on the HTPC (using WinDVD 5.3.5.37) and the Denon DVD-3910 (which my friend believes is running the latest firmware updates). Both the HTPC and the DVD-3910 were connected to my Outlaw 990 preamp/processor's DVI inputs, with the DVI output connected to the ScreenPlay 333's M1-DA input port using a DVI-to-M1 adapter. (Note to potential 333 owners: Just like with the 777, InFocus annoyingly uses an M1-DA port for digital input, so you will need to get either a DVI-D to M1-DA adapter or an HDMI to M1-DA adapter if you want to connect a DVI or HDMI source to your 333.) We would then switch back and forth between the HTPC and the 3910 using the Outlaw's DVI switching, and we A/B tested Moulin Rouge, Master and Commander, The Fifth Element and Panic Room (SuperBit versions on the last two).

Well, I'm here to tell you that maybe it's just my 42-year-old eyes, but I swear that I could not tell the difference between the HTPC and the 3910 except in a couple of scenes during Fifth Element. Was the difference worth the cost of a SDI player and scaler? After last night's testing I can't say that it would be. I think for now I'll just live with my 333 for a few months using an upscaling DVD player like the 3910. If I ever decide that the picture could be improved even more, I'll try to find someone in my area with an SDI player/scaler combo to do some more testing.

Scott,

Thanks for your informative posts. I think that many of us here are anxiously awaiting your thoughts/screenshots when you have the 333 calibrated.

Ray

In the FWIW department, I did some more testing last night which really doesn't have a lot to do with the 333 itself but may be of interest to potential owners. A buddy with a Denon DVD-3910 upscaling DVD player and an HTPC brought both over so that we could do some A/B comparisons using the 333's "native" mode (which bypasses the projector's internal scaler and deinterlacer). The purpose of this comparison test was pretty simple: I wanted to see if I could tell the difference between an upscaling DVD player like the 3910 and an HTPC to help me decide whether I should spend a few thousand dollars on a scaler and an SDI-modified DVD player (which would presumably have at least as good performance as an HTPC without the inconvenience).

For our A/B testing we simultaneously played two copies of the same DVD on the HTPC (using WinDVD 5.3.5.37) and the Denon DVD-3910 (which my friend believes is running the latest firmware updates). Both the HTPC and the DVD-3910 were connected to my Outlaw 990 preamp/processor's DVI inputs, with the DVI output connected to the ScreenPlay 333's M1-DA input port using a DVI-to-M1 adapter. (Note to potential 333 owners: Just like with the 777, InFocus annoyingly uses an M1-DA port for digital input, so you will need to get either a DVI-D to M1-DA adapter or an HDMI to M1-DA adapter if you want to connect a DVI or HDMI source to your 333.) We would then switch back and forth between the HTPC and the 3910 using the Outlaw's DVI switching, and we A/B tested Moulin Rouge, Master and Commander, The Fifth Element and Panic Room (SuperBit versions on the last two).

Well, I'm here to tell you that maybe it's just my 42-year-old eyes, but I swear that I could not tell the difference between the HTPC and the 3910 except in a couple of scenes during Fifth Element. Was the difference worth the cost of a SDI player and scaler? After last night's testing I can't say that it would be. I think for now I'll just live with my 333 for a few months using an upscaling DVD player like the 3910. If I ever decide that the picture could be improved even more, I'll try to find someone in my area with an SDI player/scaler combo to do some more testing.

Scott,

Thanks for the review. Do you know what's inside your friend's HTPc? my athon x2/GeForce 7800 GT/Theater Tek/FFshow/dscaler HTPC is better than any standard alone dvd player I have ever seen/had.

Mike

Other than WinDVD and the CPU (a 3.2 GHz P4), I know his card was a GeForce but I don't know whether it was a 7800 or not... I'll see if I can get any more specific information on his setup.

I do want to stress a couple of points: First, I'm still projecting against drywall (albeit white-painted drywall this time around), which is why I didn't bother taking pictures during our informal tests last night. When the 333 is properly mounted, calibrated and blasting photons onto the permanent screen (which is shaping up to be a 1.4 gain Carada, incidentally), then I'll be absolutely certain whether or not to proceed down the SDI/scaler path. Second, I don't want my very preliminary tests to imply that there is no value to getting a scaler. I am quite sure that I am only eking out 80% or so of the potential of the 333 in its current state--I'm just saying that for now 80% of a 333 is a VAST improvement over the NEC VT540 that I had before, and it's going to be a while before I feel a need to squeeze out the remaining 20% of performance.

Hello,

Did anyone in Michigan purchase this unit? I was hoping to see one in action before purchase.

My room is only 2 months from being finnished and I MUST have Vertical Lens shift due to low ceiling and high screen mount.

Dave

Has anyone verified which DLP chips this machine has? It's going to be the deciding factor for me.

Using InFocus single chippers as the example, for the 3 machines:

7200 : 7205 : 7210

the respective CR's in the specs are:

1400 : 2200 : 2800 to 1

for the following chips:

HD2 : HD2+ : DC3

The 777 clearly has the DC3 chips, and is therefore analogous to the 7210. If the 333 is analogous to the 7205 (HD2+ chips), great. But the difference in PQ between the 7200 and 7210 is too much for me to swallow.

So if the 333 has the HD2 chips, I have to assume that the difference between it and the 777 would be similar to the difference between the 7200 and 7210.

I'm sure that the 333 produces a great picture, but I simply couldn't live with myself if I spent $10k+ on a projector with technology that's 2 generations old, with half the CR of the latest generation's chips.

It seems that it's logical to assume HD2+ since the specs for the 333 say a CR of 3200:1. Based upon the specs of the 777 (CR 5000:1), if the 333 had HD2 chips, I would expect closer to 2500:1.

But I really don't want to take anyone's word for it - are there any published specs from Kodak or InFocus on it?

Thanks,
Phil

Has anone bought the IF 777 (333) ND filter bracket? Someone somewhere in a thread said they got one, but I can't find it. Sure would like to see a picture of it. Scott

Found it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7073005&&#post7073005

It was you, Scott. Any chance I could persuade you to take picture of the filter holder? Can you tell us what it cost? It's small enough and something that can't be sold over the internet anyway, I don't think AVS will mind. PM me if you prefer.

Thanks, Scott

Found it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7073005&&#post7073005

It was you, Scott. Any chance I could persuade you to take picture of the filter holder? Can you tell us what it cost? It's small enough and something that can't be sold over the internet anyway, I don't think AVS will mind. PM me if you prefer.

Thanks, Scott
Unfortunately I've already attached the ring to the projector lens, and the projector has been packed back into its shipping box until I'm ready to haul it downstairs and install it on my basement HT ceiling.

I can tell you that it's just a black metal ring slightly larger than 72 mm in diameter, with sticky 3M adhesive tape on one side for permanently attaching the ring to the lens housing and threads on the other side to allow you to screw in a standard 72 mm filter (I bought a couple of Tiffen 0.6 and 0.3 ND filters and they fit like a glove). There's a slight indent where the circular tape has been placed, so it makes it pretty straightforward to gently mash the ring onto the front of the lens housing. And since it's just a part I don't see why Alan would mind me telling you that it's $99 direct from InFocus.

Hi All,
Yet another fence sitter. Has anyone verified the TI chips that are being used in the IF 333? Also, the IF 333 spec sheet calls out Optics from Minolta. Is this different from the optics in the IF 777? And what exactly does this color from Kodak achieve over and above the current IF 777? Thank you in advance for helping me off this fence.

Donn

well I just got off the fence and ordered today. I'm going to match with a Steward studiotech 130 screen. Doing this all by myself. Wish me luck.

Hi All,
Yet another fence sitter. Has anyone verified the TI chips that are being used in the IF 333? Also, the IF 333 spec sheet calls out Optics from Minolta. Is this different from the optics in the IF 777? And what exactly does this color from Kodak achieve over and above the current IF 777? Thank you in advance for helping me off this fence.

Donn
The color science software, in a nutshell, ensures that your 333 arrives already tuned for optimal picture quality.

well I just got off the fence and ordered today. I'm going to match with a Steward studiotech 130 screen. Doing this all by myself. Wish me luck.

Studiotek is a great choice, you might also want to order some nd2 filters to cut down the lumens.

Unless you're planning to use a 20-foot-wide screen, I strongly recommend 72 mm ND filters. I bought 72 mm Tiffen ND 0.6 and 0.3 filters and they work great with the ND filter holder from InFocus.

I will be getting the holder from infocus but where do you buy the Tiffem filters from? Also what is this DVI-M1-Da Vesa input? do they make a wire with dvi on one side and this on the other? Thanks.

What a great pj. It only needs warp engines, and I'm sure it would do wp-4 around your HT. I'm personally uncomfortable with your mounting method, however. Regardless of the apparent strength of heavy duty wood screws, I would never mount such an expensive and heavy item with the weight pulling the screws right back out the way they were screwed in. Even my rinky-dink $1.3k Infocus is mounted on a 2X6 cat attached between the ceiling joists using steel joist hangers, and the extension pipe is clamped in place with 4X5/16 inch carriage bolts. With the structure stressed for a 1000 lbs, I sleep well at night. In addition, the rigidity of the installation means that even with people walking directly overhead, I see no vibration in the image.

However you end up doing it, post a couple pix of the result. It should be pretty cool.

I will be getting the holder from infocus but where do you buy the Tiffem filters from? Also what is this DVI-M1-Da Vesa input? do they make a wire with dvi on one side and this on the other? Thanks.

The M1-DA is a really annoying connector that Infocus uses on its projectors because it combines a DVI-I and a USB connection into one connector shell. Coming from Infocus' business background, it makes some sense. One connector can go between the projector and a computer, and it carries VGA, DVI-D (single link), and USB signals. The USB can be used to control the projector for Powerpoint presentations.

For home theater use it becomes worse than useless, because you will need an adapter or special cable to get your DVI or VGA signals out of the M1 connector. The USB is generally not used.

I will be getting the holder from infocus but where do you buy the Tiffem filters from? Also what is this DVI-M1-Da Vesa input? do they make a wire with dvi on one side and this on the other? Thanks.
I bought 72mm Tiffen ND 0.3 and ND 0.6 filters here (http://www.2filter.com/faq/tiffen/tiffenndfilters.html). The DVI-D to M1-DA dongle (and the 15' DVI-D cable I needed) were purchased from RAM Electronics Industries (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_m1_adapter.html), an AVS Forum sponsor.

I'm personally uncomfortable with your mounting method, however. Regardless of the apparent strength of heavy duty wood screws, I would never mount such an expensive and heavy item with the weight pulling the screws right back out the way they were screwed in. Even my rinky-dink $1.3k Infocus is mounted on a 2X6 cat attached between the ceiling joists using steel joist hangers, and the extension pipe is clamped in place with 4X5/16 inch carriage bolts. With the structure stressed for a 1000 lbs, I sleep well at night. In addition, the rigidity of the installation means that even with people walking directly overhead, I see no vibration in the image.
ARRGH. Now you have me all worried again. What is a "2x6 cat"? And what would you suggest that doesn't involve tearing into the ceiling drywall?

Considering that Infocus never made a 3chip machine that used the HD2+ chips before, and the 777s prior to CEDIA this year were all HD2 based units (remember at CES 2005 that the big news was Sim had released the HT500 with the HD2+ chips and they were the only 3 chip machine using the upgraded chips?), I would hazard a guess that the 333 units may be rebadged 777 units that use the HD2 chipset. I'm sure Infocus was unable to sell off all their stock of HD2 777s as soon as they announced the price drop from $30K to $15K MSRP and the inclusion of the DC3 chipset in the 777s. I had to call around to get a DC3 777 to put on display because all AVAD had in stock when I wanted to order were HD2 based units that they were returning to Infocus to replace them with the new DC3 units. I had to get my DC3 based 777 directly from Infocus.

Enjoy the brightness for all of you that have taken the plunge and bought one of the 333s. The DC3 777 really likes at least a 135 inch screen. I've become a convert to the brightness side of things. There is just no replacement for the pop the image has thanks to the extra lumens. I can't watch ISF recommended lumen levels anymore. It's just too darn dim, flat and blah looking. People locally have resoundingly chosen the 777 over something like the Ruby and feel it is more than worth the extra cash, provided you can have the screen size necessary to knock down some of the brightness :)

The M1-DA is a really annoying connector that Infocus uses on its projectors because it combines a DVI-I and a USB connection into one connector shell. Coming from Infocus' business background, it makes some sense. One connector can go between the projector and a computer, and it carries VGA, DVI-D (single link), and USB signals. The USB can be used to control the projector for Powerpoint presentations.

For home theater use it becomes worse than useless, because you will need an adapter or special cable to get your DVI or VGA signals out of the M1 connector. The USB is generally not used.

The USB interface in the M1DA connector is also used for firmware updates - which Infocus usually does several over the life of the projector. The port also supports FireWire - which never took off really - and maybe someday it will support wireless HD video (they have wireless desktop already in their liteshow product)

The contrast on the 333 is true measured and very close to the newer 777 truly measured not the factory claimed contrast. Both machines along with 3 chip DLP in general are very impressive indeed.
Just a year ago you could not touch any 3 chip for under 20k :)

I agree about the brightness. Once you've experienced it its very hard to go back to standard brightness.

As soon as the rep comes back Ill be announcing a promotion on the bulbs. Both machines take the same bulb and cage so the 777 owners may want to take advantage of this as well.

would component cables work just as well as dvi with all the adaptors? Sorry if this is too basic.

The 777/333 has component inputs so yes they will work with no problem.

Presently I have my DVD hooked up from the component output and the picture is good. I'll be switching to HDMI just as soon as I get my switch in though. The DVD picture with the HDMI input is better.

Allen Freeman

would component cables work just as well as dvi with all the adaptors? Sorry if this is too basic.

This is AV Science so the proper wording would be "is this question too scientific" :)

I myself prefer component or rgb. DVI & HDMI are sharper but I also notice some of the mosquito compression artifacts on pour quality transfers. DVI will almost always produce a cleaner signal.

Well I have to say I can't stop watching my 333.

This replaced a G11 so it was a huge upgrade.

I was looking at the Ruby but I have a Gray Hawk micro perf so there just were not enough lumens for my taste going this route.

The pj is about 15ft away from the screen which is 110" dia.

I too have the filter carrier and it currenly fitted with an ND4.

Being fed via a VP30 for all the sources, DVD, HD Cable and XBOX 360.

I have to say Call of Duty 2 is an absolute blast displayed at this size/brightness, I can't get my son out of the HT, bring on the bulb PB please!

Cheers,

Martin.

The contrast on the 333 is true measured and very close to the newer 777 truly measured not the factory claimed contrast.
As soon as the rep comes back Ill be announcing a promotion on the bulbs. Both machines take the same bulb and cage so the 777 owners may want to take advantage of this as well.
This projector is the Screenplay 333. These are not stock 777s. They are much brighter
How is it brighter with the same bulb? It seems contradictory that it:
- has same bulb
- has more brightness
- has very close contrast
- has < HD2+DC3 DMDs
These don't seem go together, scientifically. Something is missing. A same-parameters calibration, maybe? Curious, as to how Kodak modded the thing to do all that. Imagine what could they do with a 777 DC3! It would be cool to see someone load the Kodak firmware on their 777. Any takers :)...?

GG

I do not know the details of the following but passing along what I was told.
They have modified the lens and something else in the light path. They worked with the Infocus engineers to achieve the needed brightness. They also improved other aspects of the machine so it would run more stable over longer periods of time under commercial demands. The circuit for striking the lamp was also improved.

GG

I do not know the details of the following but passing along what I was told.
They have modified the lens and something else in the light path. They worked with the Infocus engineers to achieve the needed brightness. They also improved other aspects of the machine so it would run more stable over longer periods of time under commercial demands. The circuit for striking the lamp was also improved.
Cool! Sounds good to me. And reasonable since designing for the commercial enviroment. Thanks, Scott

Congrats on the sweet projector, Scott. :)

I'm personally uncomfortable with your mounting method, however. Regardless of the apparent strength of heavy duty wood screws, I would never mount such an expensive and heavy item with the weight pulling the screws right back out the way they were screwed in.
After this post I decided I needed professional advice so I called my electrician, who has twenty-five years of experience mounting heavy items like chandeliers on ceilings and who, as it turns out, also does home theater projector installations. And guess what--his advice was exactly the same: screw-mount a suitably-sized plank of 13-ply Baltic Birch plywood onto two joists and connect the projector mount to the plywood. With specific regard to gsmollin's concern about the pulling force on the wood screws, he pointed out that since there would be eight screws (four on each joist) holding the plywood in place, each screw would only have to hold about seven pounds of weight... far, far less than such screws are capable of holding.

I bought 72mm Tiffen ND 0.3 and ND 0.6 filters here (http://www.2filter.com/faq/tiffen/tiffenndfilters.html). The DVI-D to M1-DA dongle (and the 15' DVI-D cable I needed) were purchased from RAM Electronics Industries (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_m1_adapter.html), an AVS Forum sponsor.


ARRGH. Now you have me all worried again. What is a "2x6 cat"? And what would you suggest that doesn't involve tearing into the ceiling drywall?

ARRGH, I'm sorry, really, I feel your pain. The "cat" is a 2 in X 6 in piece of lumber mounted cross-wise between the ceiling joists, which are 2 X 10 in my home. It carries the 1 1/2 inch steel pipe that extends down below the ceiling. The pipe is clamped to the 2 X 6 with two pipe clamps, using the carriage bolts. That allows me to raise and lower the pipe to make fine height adjustments. My ceiling is dropped, which makes it easy to do it this way.

I'm not sure why you are trying to save the ceiling. You can cut a 16 inch square hole in the ceiling, mount the projector, and run power and video cables with the help of the same access hole. Then you can put the drywall back in the hole, and put a mitered picture-frame over the cut edge. Paint it the ceiling color, and nobody will ever see it because that monster projector will block the view.

To mount this across a drywall ceiling means you have to attach a frame across the face of the ceiling joists. You absolutely have to screw into two ceiling joists, at four locations, minimum. I would recommend lag screws for attaching to the ceiling joists. You said you have built-up ceiling joists, so it is critical that you hit the joists on-center, and you drill a correct pilot hole so the lag screw doesn't split the joist. I used to have built-up joists in a home, and I remember the flange of the beam is very hard, since it is made of laminated wood. Some of the other responders were recommending heavy plywood for the hard-point you need to anchor the ceiling mount. I believe that would be strong enough, but you need to use through-bolts to attach the ceiling mount to the plywood. Don't trust wood screws! The through-bolts will protrude through the back of the plywood, so you will have to drill a clearance hole in the ceiling at this point.

I hope I've been some help. I would add that if you aren't good with your hands, and are an accomplished do-it-yourselfer, you should consider a professional installation. Not only is this projector way expensive, but it is big and heavy enough to be a safety hazard, mounted overhead. Whatever you decide to do, good luck with this amazing project!

...but it is big and heavy enough to be a safety hazard, mounted overhead.
It's a whopping 45 pounds...:rolleyes:

Can someone confirm that this is PAL/NTSC multi system - for overseas use?

I'm only trying to "save the ceiling" since there are already low-voltage wiring conduits, water pipe conduits, A/C conduits and electrical conduits all in the approximate vicinity of the projector installation location. Mounting on the finished side of the drywall seems the least intrusive method.

I also forgot to mention that the electrician who I'm hiring did recommend through-bolts for the ceiling mount/plywood connection. He also said that when they actually come to survey the projector installation location that they might resort to the more intrusive sorts of measures you mentioned, including mounting methods similar to what are used to hang heavy chandeliers.

I'm a DIY-er, but I've decided I'm not one when it comes to something like this. Thanks very much for the advice.

It's a whopping 45 pounds...:rolleyes:
It's not a joke. If it fell on a child, it could kill him. And why would it fall on a child, you ask? Because the child was climbing on the projector. Scenarios like these are why all heavy objects need to be secured with a generous safety margin in a home. Oh, and if you think your children are too old, or well-behaved to do something that stupid, then don't ever open your door to somebody else's children either.

I'm only trying to "save the ceiling" since there are already low-voltage wiring conduits, water pipe conduits, A/C conduits and electrical conduits all in the approximate vicinity of the projector installation location. Mounting on the finished side of the drywall seems the least intrusive method...

I heard that. I mounted my pj in a backwards manner, beginning with the best location for the screen. After I backed it up to the perfect spot, on a card table, I dropped a plumb line to the top of the lens. Transfering to the ceiling, I opened it up, and groaned. This was my junction area for power, RF, audio, and low-voltage control for signals all over the house, not to mention the access point from the basement to the attic for antenna feeds, and ethernet runs to the upstairs bedrooms. Murphy's law is fundamental to home priojects.

don't ever open your door to somebody else's children either.
Heh... you just quoted a cardinal rule of the Scooterplex. :cool:

It's not a joke. If it fell on a child, it could kill him. And why would it fall on a child, you ask? Because the child was climbing on the projector. Scenarios like these are why all heavy objects need to be secured with a generous safety margin in a home. Oh, and if you think your children are too old, or well-behaved to do something that stupid, then don't ever open your door to somebody else's children either.

Indeed - that safety margin is 5x the hanging weight for this very reason (as well as anal AVSers who torque on the projector to get it perfectly aligned....). So if the projector weighs 45# - so 225# rated lag bolts into ceiling joists.

It's not a joke. If it fell on a child, it could kill him. And why would it fall on a child, you ask? Because the child was climbing on the projector. Scenarios like these are why all heavy objects need to be secured with a generous safety margin in a home. Oh, and if you think your children are too old, or well-behaved to do something that stupid, then don't ever open your door to somebody else's children either.
If children are able to climb your projector, you have much more severe problems than will be alleviated by ANY mounting method.

No one said it is joke, but I think you are seriously underestimating the holding power of even a single screw. As an experiment, I once hung a 8X1 screw eye into a joist, put a piece of cable through it so I would have something to grab, and then tried with all of my weight (about 200 pounds at that time) to rip the screw eye out of the joist. There was no way in hell I could do it by hanging and yanking at it, and that screw eye is significantly smaller than any lag bolt. Now you distribute the weight over FOUR lag bolts, and you could hang a minimum of 800 pounds on the mount, assuming that only downward pressure would be applied. I would be MUCH more concerned about the quality of the mount itself than of the screws holding it in place, and for that reason I used a 2" black pipe attached with floor flanges to mount my 45 pound Ruby. The black pipe is stronger than ANY mount I have seen, is cheaper, and has the advantage of being big enough to run your cables through it.

Can even this mount be ripped off the ceiling? Yes, but it would require lateral pressure from the furthest point away from the attachment points...you know, using leverage to achieve much greater amounts of force. But under those circumstances, there is NO mount that I couldn't rip out of the ceiling given a long enough lever.

But I certainly don't want to be responsible for anyone getting hurt. I don't have any children, nor do I ever have children in my house (I am a bachelor), so this is not an issue for me. Please do what YOU feel is necessary to protect your family and your investment. I merely wanted to point out that properly installed screws are a lot stronger than you might at first think.

Please do not follow my advice...I am an idiot.

[QUOTE=Bob Sorel]If children are able to climb your projector, you have much more severe problems than will be alleviated by ANY mounting method.

No one said it is joke, but I think you are seriously underestimating the holding power of even a single screw. As an experiment, I once hung a 8X1 screw eye into a joist, put a piece of cable through it so I would have something to grab, and then tried with all of my weight (about 200 pounds at that time) to rip the screw eye out of the joist. There was no way in hell I could do it by hanging and yanking at it, and that screw eye is significantly smaller than any lag bolt. Now you distribute the weight over FOUR lag bolts, and you could hang a minimum of 800 pounds on the mount, assuming that only downward pressure would be applied. I would be MUCH more concerned about the quality of the mount itself than of the screws holding it in place, and for that reason I used a 2" black pipe attached with floor flanges to mount my 45 pound Ruby. The black pipe is stronger than ANY mount I have seen, is cheaper, and has the advantage of being big enough to run your cables through it.

Can even this mount be ripped off the ceiling? Yes, but it would require lateral pressure from the furthest point away from the attachment points...you know, using leverage to achieve much greater amounts of force. But under those circumstances, there is NO mount that I couldn't rip out of the ceiling given a long enough lever.

you make execellent points reagrding the strength of screws/lagbolts etc, i had a 185 lbs crt projector hung on my ceiling by 8 3/8ths lag bolts for 2 years and it was fine before hanging it my son 180lbs and myself 260 lbs hung form the mount with no problems so a 45 pound p.j. hung by some lag bolts attached to the mount should be no sweat, it was my understanding that a single lag bolt screwed into a ceiling stud could handle 1800 pounds of down force/weight before dislodging, so a little common sense and a sturdy strut/ floor beam is all you need after all its not a crt.... :)

Boy this thread is getting way OT. Scott, PM me, send me a SASE, and I'll send you 6 screws that will hold the thing just fine. On a piece of normal, everyday, laminated plywood. I have my 777 mounted to a piece of lesser plywood, with the same 6 screws. The board doesn't know a 45 lb PJ is there. Me and both my kids can hang on it (My fat $185 lbs did already) and the PJ, me and the 2 kids wouldn't phase it. Now back to our originally scheduled topic.... :)

Since the C3X weighs about 1/4 of the 333, I'm thinking about duck tape and staples in my custom install. That ought to support as many pull-ups as I'm currently capable of.

Since the C3X weighs about 1/4 of the 333, I'm thinking about duck tape and staples in my custom install. That ought to support as many pull-ups as I'm currently capable of.:eek::D:p:D

Interested in an engineer's comments? Check out this link to a forum post on diynetwork.com. (http://boards.diynetwork.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/6221916776/m/2501095852/r/9671031952)

My experience is that even a single 2x4 wood joist would handle a ~50lb consistent load with a LOT of room for temporary additional bearing strength. My media room is on the second floor so I had access to the attic and walked on the 2x4 joists consistently and they didn't bend, warp, squeak or otherwise change position with 170lbs of weight on a single 2x2" section of board.

That being said, there are much more aesthetically pleasing ways to create a mounting pad. My preference is to remove a drywall square (spanning two exposed joists) and replace it with 1/2" birch plywood and enough #12 countersunk wood screws to make you comfortable. Spackel, prime, paint and texture. If you like to avoid taping/leveling/texturing/blending sheetrock like I do, make a picture frame square using the same baseboard trim found in the room (or something simple if yours is too tall/decorative) to cover up the mess. Use 1" long 3/8" lag screws with washers for fastening the mount to the plywood.

If you don't want to cut into the ceiling, simply use a stud finder and do repeated markings of the edges around the mounting area and a foot in either direction. With enough markings, you can "connect the dots" with a straight edge and see exactly where the stud is. Use 3/8" lag screws to fasten a length of plywood to the ceiling. Use 1" long 3/8" lag screws with washers for fastening the mount to the plywood.

Now back to the projector... I wish my "average" media room could justify one! And good luck to everyone who attempts to ceiling mount the beast.

Can one of the owners of 333 tell me whether or not it is Pal/NTSC (multi system capable?). Thank you.

Since I don't have PAL sources I can't say for certain, but the 777 certainly is PAL-compatible. I don't know whether the changes Kodak made to the imaging firmware disabled this functionality, though.

Thanks Scott. I would expect 333 also to be PAL compatible but I need confirmation before purchase (its for a friend overseas).

It seems to me that this infocus 333 is such a great bargain - at $10k - with 3100 lumens. Just when I thought that the Sony SXRDA is becoming unbeatable, I find this gem of a deal. Now I am totally confused of course!

Sheesz you guys, ok here is the recommended tension or withdrawal load for lag bolts in wood. This is from the 2001 National Design Specification for Wood Construction manual.

Axial Load, bolt dia X threaded length,
15 lbs to 30 lbs, 3/8 x 1-3/4 inches,
31 lbs to 50 lbs, 1/2 x 2 inches,
Over 50 lbs to load use bolt and nut
limit of structure.

Here is the fine print
Do not use lag bolts in wooden members having a nominal thickness (beam face) under 2 inches in size. The lumber grade has a significant effect on a specific fastener's rating. Load ratings include a factor of safety. Some building codes require more stringent standards. Consult your local building inspector before installation.

Bottom line is one 1/2 in lag bolt is more than enough to hold the projector up.

Bottom line is one 1/2 in lag bolt is more than enough to hold the projector up.

You should see the manky stuff us El Cap aid climbers hang on - and I weight 180# !! Makes one pray it was a 1/2 inch lag screw......................

PS - if a kid hung on my projector, the pj falling and hitting him would be the least of his worries!!

PS - if a kid hung on my projector, the pj falling and hitting him would be the least of his worries!!


Kids gonna end up dead ether way :eek:

I think Craig is suggesting that death would be preferable to the punishment...

....not to beat this subject to death, but 3/8" and 1/2" diameter fasteners are not appropriate for I-joists -- these are overkill and the large diameter will actually cause damage to the I-joist plate material. Several, no. 10 or no. 12 square recess drive wood screws of an appropriate length, spaced 4"-6" apart are recommended. Appropriate length would be to a screwed depth of roughly 1 1/2" within the plate itself.

It looks like this projector has both the lumens needed for my rearpro application and the contrast for a really stellar image. I do have a couple of questions -

* Does is accept any combination of 720/1080, interlaced/progressive, 50/60....perhaps even 24 or 48hz?
* If I am greatly troubled by 1-chip DLPs....will I be ok with this one being a 3-chip? I have no way of checking pre-purchase and would appreciate any input on the matter.

I know it takes 1080p/24 and 720p/60 (btw audvid, I checked the 333's menu and PAL is an option there, so I'm guessing it'll take 720p/50 too). And since it's a 3-chip DLP, there is no color wheel and therefore no possibility of rainbow artifacting. I'm very susceptible to rainbows myself, which is one reason I went with 3-chip DLP.

Scott,
Has your screen come in yet? Have you been able to view it with the filters and the screen? I'd like to hear your impressions.

Thanks
Roberto

Carpet installation in the theater has been delayed until the end of next week, so it now looks like final installation and calibration of the projector and screen won't occur until around the week of March 13-17.

The timing actually works out well though, because several things about my setup have drastically changed in the past 24 hours--changes for the better, I hope. For starters, everyone can stop posting about installation techniques because I decided to pry open the wallet and hire a local home theater professional to do the installation. Since he has extensive experience installing CRT behemoths, I think we can all stop worrying about whether my 333 will someday succumb to the force of gravity! :eek:

The second big change is that the refurbished Denon DVD-5910 that I had on infinite backorder is now cancelled. The lying sacks of doodie at the "authorized online Denon B-stock dealer" (rhymes with "we lost" ;)) told me when I placed my order that they'd have a 5910 in stock within two days. Once my order was placed two days turned into two months. Forget that! So now I'm back to where I probably should have been in the first place--a Lumagen VisionDVI modified for SDI with an SDI-modified DVD player (model TBD).

The final big change is that the aforementioned home theater pro is also ISF-certified and will be calibrating the 333 and the Lumagen, so when all is said and done I should have a ScreenPlay 333 setup that will be as perfectly optimized as possible. :cool: Stay tuned!

Scott, it sounds like you could save some $$$ by just buying an inexpensive DVD player that passes 480i out thru HDMI (e.g. Pioneer Elite 59/79avi, upcoming OPPO 970H). That would save you the trouble of SDI on both DVD and scaler. Then when BluRay/HD-DVD finally show up, you aren't in for as much and can add one of those to really show off that flamethrower.

Thanks for confirming PAL capablity.

By the way, are 3 chip DLPs susceptible to "motion blurr". I have experience with a high end professional NEC 3 chip (around $60k) and its perfect.

I was wondering if any of the consumer 3 chip DLP's have this motion blurr problem. I had noticed it in the past on a single chip DLP (priced at $12k). I did not notice the "rainbow effect" but when there was fast motion in the scene, the picture would blurr momentarily. Is this a known issue for any of the 3 chip dlps?

Scott, it sounds like you could save some $$$ by just buying an inexpensive DVD player that passes 480i out thru HDMI (e.g. Pioneer Elite 59/79avi, upcoming OPPO 970H). That would save you the trouble of SDI on both DVD and scaler. Then when BluRay/HD-DVD finally show up, you aren't in for as much and can add one of those to really show off that flamethrower.
Meh... then you're at the mercy of the scaler and deinterlacer inside the 333. I think I can get much better results going the SDI scaler/player route. Besides, I have no intention of replacing any of my DVDs or spending penny one on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until one of them is the clear winner. (Stupid format war. :mad: ) I have a feeling I will be watching regular DVDs for years to come, so I don't mind spending a few $$ for an optimized viewing experience.


By the way, are 3 chip DLPs susceptible to "motion blurr".
I have never heard of nor seen this phenomenon. Are you sure you weren't seeing a deliberate, intentional artistic effect?

Meh... then you're at the mercy of the scaler and deinterlacer inside the 333. I think I can get much better results going the SDI scaler/player route. Besides, I have no intention of replacing any of my DVDs or spending penny one on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until one of them is the clear winner. (Stupid format war. ) I have a feeling I will be watching regular DVDs for years to come, so I don't mind spending a few $$ for an optimized viewing experience.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant still get a scaler (I have a DVDO VP30), but just get a DVD player that outputs 480i directly. Saves all the expense of double SDI modding of both units and allows you to buy something like the <$200 OPPO 970H. This should give as good an image as possible on your 333 without using the built-in scaling. Then you just go DVD 480i=>HDMI out==>scaler===>SP333. One conversion, less money, more flexible. I agree about the format war, but you know sure as hell, we'll eventually break down and want to see the new hi-def DVD's on that monster screen.

Scott,

Regarding motion blurr - I could be wrong but I though it was a known issue with single chip DLP (earler models anyway). Yes, I had seen it and discussed with a technical expert and he acknowledged the existance of this issue in single chip DLPs.

I don't know if the new 2nd and 3rd generation chips have that problem. I have seen only one 3 chip DLP and its the NEC - Its a great projector but its very expensive (I think it listed around $60k). I had not seen the new generation consumer 3 chip dlps and hence I was wondering if such an issue even exists in these 3 chip models.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant still get a scaler (I have a DVDO VP30), but just get a DVD player that outputs 480i directly. Saves all the expense of double SDI modding of both units and allows you to buy something like the <$200 OPPO 970H.
Right. That's the way I am going. And I already have an SDI modded Panny RP-82. It's just that the darned SDI inputs tend to be expensive addons to a scaler, and as long as the player does not run the signal through any other processing before sending out via HDMI/480i, it should work as well as the more expensive solutions. The last I heard the Oppo 970H was about a month from release, but we all know how those things go... :rolleyes: Scott, if you're not in a big hurry, this might prove to be a very easy, low cost solution that would put all the processing in the VP...where it belongs.

[whiny voice]
But I want it NOOOOOWWWWW!!! ;)
[/whiny voice]

... I can tell you that it's just a black metal ring slightly larger than 72 mm in diameter, with sticky 3M adhesive tape on one side for permanently attaching the ring to the lens housing and threads on the other side to allow you to screw in a standard 72 mm filter (I bought a couple of Tiffen 0.6 and 0.3 ND filters and they fit like a glove). There's a slight indent where the circular tape has been placed, so it makes it pretty straightforward to gently mash the ring onto the front of the lens housing. And since it's just a part I don't see why Alan would mind me telling you that it's $99 direct from InFocus.

I was looking for a picture of this as well. Did you buy the adapter off of their web site?

Thanks,
Ray

No, you have to call InFocus and tell them specifically what you want.

Visit my crappy website
I visited and played your "sick game" - got lucky on 2nd try

http://home.comcast.net/~flint350/kittycannon.jpg

Losers!

1579 feet... also on lucky lucky 2nd try. After a while I was starting to wonder if the kitty would every come to a halt :)

I have been following the 333/777 discussions with great interest. I have a 7200 in a dedicated room with 110 inch first generation firehawk. I am on my third bulb due to use and have loved it. I can easily see going to 120 or 135 inch diagonal screen with a brighter projector. I had been thinking in maybe a year I would have reasonable 1080p DLP choices that would be my next step. Now I wonder if I would not be better served by taking advantage of the 333 powerbuy. It is tough to know. The setup now is fine so it is not like I am hurting but I know I would like a bigger screen as I have been to friends setups with 145 in screen and as they say "wow" My room will not support that size but i think I could get away with up to 135. Long saga short what do people who have seen 1080 DLP single vs 720p 3 chip think? Wait? Go for it? Find a used 333 in a year for 2k? (bad joke but likely) Remember I have 5000 hours on my 7200 and love the big experience. I almost never watch any other TV in my house. Thanks for reading my ramblings and for sharing your experiences to date.
Paul

Paul, FWIW, my take on it was this. Like you, I wanted a bigger screen. That requires some lumens. Big lumens if you enjoy 35FtL :cool: like I do. I figure it will be a good while before I can afford something with 1080 and similar lumens (3chip 1080 DLP). And as that is likely to be considered having "arrived" by many, I expect it's price to be high and stay high for a good while. Less than a year ago I coveted a 3 chip 720 (i.e. Marantz, Infocus 777 DC2, Sim HT500). But at $35k+ it wasn't something I could ever rationalize. Today, the only thing that has really changed is one can get a 1080 LCOS for ~$8k. And one can get a 3 chip DLP for just over $10k (e.g. here on AVS via 333 while they last). Would I have bought a 3-chip 333 last year when the others were going for $35k?; damn right I would have, and others would have been beating the door down to beat me to it.

I got a good deal on a 3-chip DLP (777) and I like it very, very much. Can it be better, sure it can, a little :). Is it what it was last year when it was $35k; no, this year it is a little better at almost a third the cost. Is it satisfying to watch?; extremely.

I figure this one will last me for a while. It was the first time I do not have PJ upgradeitus. And I had a very, very nice problem-free H79 before my 3-chip. So I'm set nicely to wait not only for something at 1080p and bright, but for the price to come down some, too and get me off the almost literal bleeding edge of being an early adopter of the new technology. I don't run a AV shop, upgrading was eating me up. Now I'm (for once) sufficiently satisified to wait on the next afforadable thing.

If you like a 7200, I expect the 333 or 777 would be TVgasmic. I haven't seen the 333 personally, but Alan and several of the owners like theirs just as much as I like my 777. Not asingle complaint I know of anywhere as you've (not) seen in the 333/777 threads.

But be forwarned, once you get used to this bright image, you'll not ever be able to go back to something that is relatively "dim" :D The fact you are already a very happy IF customer, man these are soooo much nicer than a 7200 you will love it I'd bet.

HTH, Scott

Visit my crappy website

I hit like 5 trampolines in a row... then some TNT :eek:

Gray
Thank you for the response. What screen are you using with your 777? Given the higher light output of the 333 do you reccomend firehawk or move to white screen? Or maybe even (gasp) greyhawk? I wonder if there are any of these in the SF bay area that I could see in operation. Thanks for sharing.
Paul

Just as an FYI, I am using a 133" diagonal 16:9 DaLite High Contrast Cinema Vision screen (1.1 gain). It works very well with the ScreenPlay 333, especially now that the projector has been ISF-calibrated.

I swear that I have never seen DVDs look so good--and HDTV is a revelation. :cool: In my completely biased opinion, the Kodak/InFocus ScreenPlay 333 is one of the greatest bargains in home theater... I certainly won't be upgrading anytime in the near future. :)

Gray
Thank you for the response. What screen are you using with your 777? Given the higher light output of the 333 do you reccomend firehawk or move to white screen? Or maybe even (gasp) greyhawk? I wonder if there are any of these in the SF bay area that I could see in operation. Thanks for sharing.
PaulRight now I have my old 110" FH. but I'm getting a bigger one. I still prefer the FH. It is the best all-around screen you can buy IMO. It helps a little with black levels, and it is great at rejecting ambient light. One thing you will run into withthse cannons is they light up your room. You room in turn will try to light up your screen. The FH helps with that a lot. For 16x9 I would recommned a 123" or a 135". I figured the 110 would be too bright, but honestly, it's not bothering me. But if it goes to a full white screen, you *will* squint. If teh 333 is brighter, then that will only be worse. If it is brighter, one definately needs a filter, a 135" or both, depending on tastes. By george when it's a bright, sunny day outside in the video, it looks like it on a 110"!. I'm considering going to go with a constant height 2.35 screen setup and I might stay with my 4.5' height of the 110" if I do. I don't want to stretch that 720 out too much. But if I decide to keep my Panamorph 752 and stay constant width, I'll likely get at least a 123", probably a 135. And I'm leaning toward that solution since I like the 752, and the Isco's I'd wante to replace it are sooo expensive.

Other screen I considered - ST130 - washes too bad with the least little bit of ambient, or room reflections. GreyHawk Reference (RS), awesome picture, no hotspoting whatsoever, but it too does not reject stray light as well as the Firehawk. If I had black velvet walls, I'd get the GreyHawk RS, no question. With it's slightly negative gain, and this cannon, it produces a 180 deg viewing cone and a beautiful pic. If you are loaded, the Mirage variants are nice at twice the price. Saw it, too.

I do not follow all the specs on the latest players, but I beleive the Oppo does not put out 480i digital, and I'm not too sure that any of the latest Denon or Pioneer units put it out unprocessed. (non-defeatable conversion to 480p, then back to 480i) SDI modded units are still the only raw 480i digital source for DVD I know of. Anyone know of other options?


I think you misunderstood me. I meant still get a scaler (I have a DVDO VP30), but just get a DVD player that outputs 480i directly. Saves all the expense of double SDI modding of both units and allows you to buy something like the <$200 OPPO 970H. This should give as good an image as possible on your 333 without using the built-in scaling. Then you just go DVD 480i=>HDMI out==>scaler===>SP333. One conversion, less money, more flexible. I agree about the format war, but you know sure as hell, we'll eventually break down and want to see the new hi-def DVD's on that monster screen.

Scott, i finally got my 333 up and running on the Studiotec 130. It looks great right out of the box. I don't even need the filters. Do you really see a big difference before and after the calibration?

Well, I just couldn't wait any longer for a 1080p projector capable of working with my HT setup, so I pulled the trigger and bought the Infocus 333 today. I should be up and running in about 3 weeks. My screen is a 120" wide and the front row is only 12ft away. Should I just bite the bullet and purcahse a IMX now to avoid seeing SDE from that seating position? Any downsides to the IMX?

If you like a 7200, I expect the 333 or 777 would be TVgasmic. I haven't seen the 333 personally, but Alan and several of the owners like theirs just as much as I like my 777. Not asingle complaint I know of anywhere as you've (not) seen in the 333/777 threads.

But be forwarned, once you get used to this bright image, you'll not ever be able to go back to something that is relatively "dim" :D The fact you are already a very happy IF customer, man these are soooo much nicer than a 7200 you will love it I'd bet.
HTH, Scott
This is so true. There is so much talk about how 12FL is what a projector should be calibrated to and not much above it, but what people fail to realize is that this spec was originally for movie theater use were factors like bulb life and the average viewers brightness tolerance had to be factored in. In a home theater, there really is no limit to brightness level as long as PQ remains consistent at all IRE levels and you're not clipping. It makes me laugh when I see a little HT projector shooting onto a huge screen and the picture is so dim and lifeless. Sure it has a great picture but whats the point when you can barely see it!

P.S. Any conformation on what DMDs the 333 is using?

This is so true. There is so much talk about how 12FL is what a projector should be calibrated to and not much above it, but what people fail to realize is that this spec was originally for movie theater use were factors like bulb life and the average viewers brightness tolerance had to be factored in. In a home theater, there really is no limit to brightness level as long as PQ remains consistent at all IRE levels and you're not clipping. It makes me laugh when I see a little HT projector shooting onto a huge screen and the picture is so dim and lifeless. Sure it has a great picture but whats the point when you can barely see it!

P.S. Any conformation on what DMDs the 333 is using?



Odds are it's the HD2, someone early pointed out that these could be "old" 777s with Kodak software and some other misc changes. I am going to call Infocus on Monday and find out.

Hed

All good things come to an end. Guys these are no longer available. Just sold the last one. Add in the PB section has been removed.

Thanks to all who purchased this projector:)

Alan-

I ordered mine late last week from Jason, I take it I got the last one?

Scott, i finally got my 333 up and running on the Studiotec 130. It looks great right out of the box. I don't even need the filters. Do you really see a big difference before and after the calibration?
Sorry, I've been busy enjoying my ScreenPlay 333 and didn't see that this thread had bobbed back to the top! :D

The answer to your question is YES. I mated my 333 with a good scaler (the Lumagen VisionHDP) and had my ISF technician calibrate the whole system using the Lumagen's nearly endless video tweakability. The difference in picture quality before and after was literally night and day--the improvements in PQ were especially noticeable in dimly-lit scenes. Trust me on this: the 333 is good out of the box, but if you want great you need to have it professionally calibrated.

Well, I just couldn't wait any longer for a 1080p projector capable of working with my HT setup, so I pulled the trigger and bought the Infocus 333 today. I should be up and running in about 3 weeks. My screen is a 120" wide and the front row is only 12ft away. Should I just bite the bullet and purcahse a IMX now to avoid seeing SDE from that seating position? Any downsides to the IMX?
My front row is only 11 feet from my 133" diagonal screen and I am not at all bothered by SDE. I didn't go the IMX route and am quite happy--no, strike that; deliriously happy--with my 333. Do you have to buy an IMX right now? Have you thought about living with the 333 first before going that route?

All good things come to an end. Guys these are no longer available. Just sold the last one. Add in the PB section has been removed.

Thanks to all who purchased this projector:)
Oooh, cool... I now have the satisfaction of owning a rare commodity indeed! Let me hereby extend my condolences to everyone who didn't buy the 333, because let me tell you--you missed out. :cool:

Alan-

I ordered mine late last week from Jason, I take it I got the last one?


You are the lucky man, thank you :)





Oooh, cool... I now have the satisfaction of owning a rare commodity indeed! Let me hereby extend my condolences to everyone who didn't buy the 333, because let me tell you--you missed out. :cool:

Well said:)

Woot, I got the last one :) If I wouldn't have gotten in on the PB I probably would of gone with the SP777. But this being a hold over projector until a 1080p 3 chip or a killer 1080p single chip (for under 15k) comes out, I'll be very glad I didn't have to spend the extra 5k.



My front row is only 11 feet from my 133" diagonal screen and I am not at all bothered by SDE. I didn't go the IMX route and am quite happy--no, strike that; deliriously happy--with my 333. Do you have to buy an IMX right now? Have you thought about living with the 333 first before going that route?

There is no rush, I plan on living with it before I do anything at all. I was just curious if you went with a lens to help with SDE. Glad to hear it isn't an issue.

I want to get a ISF pro to calibrate it for me, however I am having a hard time finding a local ISF guy, maybe I can get someone from Atlanta or Charlotte to come over. Whats the price range we are talking for a calibration?

Thanks again for the PB Alan, one of the reasons I've been coming here for 5 years. Now I just have to buy some chairs.

*Edit* Oops, almost forgot, Alan, I would like to buy an extra lamp, can you add it to my order or do I need to call the store tomorrow?

Thanks

*Edit* Oops, almost forgot, Alan, I would like to buy an extra lamp, can you add it to my order or do I need to call the store tomorrow?

Thanks

Ive past this along to Laurie, thank you:)

All good things come to an end. Guys these are no longer available. Just sold the last one. Add in the PB section has been removed.

Thanks to all who purchased this projector:)
Damn! :mad: Oh well, I'm not really in the market for a projo just yet anyway. Hopefully, InFocus will do the same thing with its leftover supply of DC3 777's when they come out with their 1080p 3-chipper! :D This was a cool thread. I had never even heard of the 333 before, as it was never listed on their website. Kodak did a great job working with InFocus, tweaking it to bring the best out of the old 777's. I cant wait to see what they can do with the current 777!

Damn! :mad: Oh well, I'm not really in the market for a projo just yet anyway. Hopefully, InFocus will do the same thing with its leftover supply of DC3 777's when they come out with their 1080p 3-chipper! :D
I wouldn't hold my breath on that score... I can't imagine seeing a 1080p three-chip DLP at the price of the current 777 until well into 2007. The single chip 1080p DLP projectors are shaping up to cost as much as the current 777, and we all know what a premium a three-chip DLP commands over a single-chip DLP. I think the 777/333 won't be outclassed for at least another year or so when you're talking price-to-performance.

Too late but just in case.... I have a new in box 777 standard throw lens I'd pay to swap for the longer throw lens, or calibrate your PJ, let you borrow my meter, or something. PM if you are interested.

Scott

Alan: Since these were coming from some Kodak source, and they were offering either lens, it is possible they have lens "stash" and might have a long throw avail?

I wouldn't hold my breath on that score... I can't imagine seeing a 1080p three-chip DLP at the price of the current 777 until well into 2007. The single chip 1080p DLP projectors are shaping up to cost as much as the current 777, and we all know what a premium a three-chip DLP commands over a single-chip DLP. I think the 777/333 won't be outclassed for at least another year or so when you're talking price-to-performance.
Yeah, you're probably right. :mad: I still would like to see what Kodak can do with the current 777 though. It would probably have all the same refinements, just with an even better CR. How sweet would that be?!
It looks like one of the first 1080p 3-chippers is going to be coming from Panasonic around the end of this year. Check it out here.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=96869&modelNo=Content03152006113952349&surfModel=Content03152006113952349

Yeah, but that's not really a comparable device. At 10K lumens (!) it's almost certainly aimed at e-cinema applications and I'd imagine that puppy'll retail for a cool hundred grand when it is initially released.

I dont know. The fact that it will be using UHP bulbs and not Xenon (like their 9610 D-Cinema projo) seems to suggest that it will be aimed at a lower price point. It also seems to share a lot of the features with their 7000 series projos, which retail for $25K & $35K. Hopfully this new one will be somewhere in that ballpark.

any screen shots or bragging comments about the 333 you guys?

Anyone in the market ought to check the avs classifieds. There is a new 777 there that is going "cheap or cheaper". I am *really* enjoying my 777, even with a ND2 on a 110 FH

Anyone in the market ought to check the avs classifieds. There is a new 777 there that is going "cheap or cheaper". I am *really* enjoying my 777, even with a ND2 on a 110 FH

Good deal indeed.

"If anyone is interested in knowing where to buy the infocus SP333 feel free to email me"

I don't know what happened to that post (or the author), but the last couple of days I've been having regrets for not buying the 333. Looking at the alternatives I'm starting to realize it was a very good offer....

I have been doing some testing with the Epson TW600 (800) and a rear projection setup. The claimed 1600 lumens in dynamic mode (or about 1000 real ones) is not even close to what I need. So the 333 is probably much more like it - the 777 may not have the juice required.

Although I haven't fully made my mind up I'd appreciate information about any 333's left...

If a 777 dosen't have the juice you need, you are blind or trying to do a 190" screen ;), IMHO. I think I measured 45ftL off mine pre-filtered on a 110. Plus, it has a DC3 chipset (I think the one in the classified does, you'd have to check on that).

If I hadn't already bought the 333, I would be all over this deal. I have a 120" wide screen and the projector sits 22ft backfrom it. I can all but guarantee the 777 would be bright enough. Heck, my projector is too bright if anything.

It's great to hear that the 333 is very bright, but believe me when I say that in a rear projection application with a good deal of ambient light there's almost no limit to how many lumens you need.

Also, I'm using a black rear projection screen at the moment which is good at maintaining the contrast when lights are on, but the gain is very low - I suspect it is lower than 0.5.

Like I said, I hope 3000 lumens will be enough. Time will tell.

If you want to buy my 333 for what I paid for it (power buy price) I'll go buy the 777 that is being listed :)

Hed
what was the power buy price for the SP333

That price in question posted feb 0/6 was $10,500 .

Two questions...

1) Does the 333/777 come with a shaver-type (unearthed) power cable or a computer-type one? And is the wall-socket similar for EU/US? (I know it handles 100-240V just fine)

2) Are the Kodak lenses different than Infocus'? There are only 2 available for the 333 and 6 or 7 for the 777.

1) Does the 333/777 come with a shaver-type (unearthed) power cable or a computer-type one? And is the wall-socket similar for EU/US? (I know it handles 100-240V just fine)
My 777 Has a standard "PC-type" plug on the PJ side, grounded.
2) Are the Kodak lenses different than Infocus'? There are only 2 available for the 333 and 6 or 7 for the 777.It is an identical body as far as I know. Sames lens fit. The 333 was offered with a choice of 2 with Alan's now closed powerbuy. But one could have purchased any one of the 777 lenses. Note that if a different lens was required for a 333/777, unless one got a really good deal on either the PJ or lens or both, I'd recommend checking with AVS/someone on a Sim2 C3X. It would become more price competitive at that point. They produce very similar pictures.

This is why I like avsforum so much - instant replies :) Thanks, GetGray.

My question regarding lenses was because I recall Alan saying something about Kodak modifying parts of the optical system. Could of course be the inner parts only, in which case the lenses are the same.

I have received a good offer and look forward to seeing the saucer in action!

Which lens does it have?

The one I ordered? Still have a couple of days to decide. I will either shoot directly onto the screen (standard lens) or via a mirror (long throw). The thing is that I plan to use a HS anamorphic adapter, so using less than 1.8:1 throw is not really a good idea. As you know @ 1.8:1 I can use either lens.

I think a rear diffusion screen will give better results with longer throw, but I also need to plan for a DNP optical screen if the diffusion screens turn out not to work (hotspot too much).

Scott

This is JOhn Andrews of Vienna VA. I sold you the VT540 back in the day. Is it possible that I could get a brief demo of the world famous SCOoterplex?

Regards,
JOHN

Scott??

anyone there???Beuller.../? anyone???

Me??, I presume the other Scott..

sorry looking for the owner of the ScooterplexII I think he has finals for an accounting degree..so maybe that is why he is MIA..

Regards,
JOHN

The 333 is back! - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=690344

Mine's arriving tomorrow or friday :)

The 333 is back! - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=690344

Mine's arriving tomorrow or friday :)

Grats! You'll enjoy it. But OUCH, wish I would've waited 4 more weeks than I did, could of saved 3k... :(

Such things are always hard to predict. I still think $10500 was a good deal. And in the long run we all benefit from the continous price reductions / performance improvements.

Have you taken any pictures of your setup? If so I'd like to see them :)

Such things are always hard to predict. I still think $10500 was a good deal. And in the long run we all benefit from the continous price reductions / performance improvements.

Have you taken any pictures of your setup? If so I'd like to see them :)

If you click on the link at the bottom of the page you can see some old shots of my HT. I'll post some other pictures of the projection room so you can see the projector actually mounted.

That would be great. Any chance of a pic showing a big BRIGHT image..? I only have experience with "toy" projectors so it's pretty hard to imagine just how much 3100 lumen is. Looking forward to it, though!

If someone buys one with a 1.8-2.4 lens, I'd pay a little to swap a new in the box 1.8-2.25 lens for it. It would get that price even lower. PM me if interested.

Umm, GetGray, what lens is this? It is not listed on the Infocus page... sure it is not a standard 1.4-1.8?

Umm, GetGray, what lens is this? It is not listed on the Infocus page... sure it is not a standard 1.4-1.8?Used to be the "stock" lens. No longer available. Minolta made genuine IF lens with zoom and focus motors.. I will guarantee it will work and fit perfectly.

Can someone help me find Alan's review/opinion of the Kodak 333 ? I think I remember talk on this projector mixed in with the Mercury HD but can't find it now.

Just PM Alan, he'd be happy to share his thoughts on it:)!!!

We had to buy bulk to get this great pricing, so get 'em while you can!!!

If someone buys one with a 1.8-2.4 lens, I'd pay a little to swap a new in the box 1.8-2.25 lens for it. It would get that price even lower. PM me if interested.

What's the issue Scott? Is yours just missing the mark by a bit?

Hi Dave, Yeah sorta. Mostly I just want the extra flexibility. I got the extra lens I have now where someone swapped their new lens for an extra long throw at install time. So it's never been used. And got it for a decent price. I'd like to have my stock lens plus the next one up. The later version has just a little more throw and thus a little more flexibility. That's the only difference per my infocus contacts. A little longer throw that is. I'm now considering a different location in my basement and I'll need the far end of the other lens.

Sounds exciting, keep us all informed on how it goes:)

It's not the smallest of projectors :)

No, nor the lightest. But it's a beautiful thing hanging from the ceiling. It's symetric, smooth, shiny (not the 333), and on the 777 the rear panel completely hides my DVI, RS232, and power cables. Sleek. More than 100% offset get's it closer to the ceiling than my old Optoma, too. Love it.

It's not the smallest of projectors :)

I hope you took the kids out of the child seats when you loaded that thing:eek:!!!

I am planning on a 54" high 2.35 screen. The room length is 24' and I can place the projector anywhere since we are building a room. Will this projector work well for my situation. I am also getting the Silicon Optix based scaler/processor. The screen will be a Stewart screen but I don't know which one yet. Depends on the projector I get.
I also don't know which anamorphic lens I should get.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Don

Dontan, with the long throw lens option for the 333, an anamorphic lens, and that size of screen the projector would be positioned at a rough distance anywhere between 14 1/2 ft and 19 ft from the screen. The further the distance the better with respect to minimizing distortion through the anamorphic adaptor lens.

All thing equal, farther is better. The farthest you can get with that screen and this PJ (with it's longer throw lens) is 19.2 ft (8'x2.4). There are longer throw len's available but they list for ridicilous prices. They can be had significantly cheaper but they are still very expensive. But in your room, I'd say 19' would work out fine and the extra expense of putting it against a back wall wouldn't be worth it.

At that throw, you have a wider variety of lens options. The one's I considered:
- IscoIII - most expensive best, least artifacts - I got this one.
- IscoII - may be able to find used in the 700-800 range if ou are patient. *Might* work at that throw
- Prismsonic HE type lens. They had a DIY powerbuy that saved a little - dunno if it's still going. Has motorized option.
- Luizwens' chinese lens. Inexpensive, but not much really know about it yet IMO.
- Panamorph's but I believe they excel and VC lens, not HE. And I'm of the strong opinion HE is clearly the best thing to do for a CH setup. I have a new Panamorph P752 I will be selling if you don't agree. Like the IscoII, you can find them used occasionally if you are patient. $600-$700 range usually.
Depends on your budget and pickyness I suppose.

For screens and this PJ, I'm planning on the same size, curved Stewart Firehawk ("plain curve" not Cinecurve). I love the ambient rejection properties of the FH, the assistance with black levels it provides to DLP's, and with a curve, I expect it's off-axis viweing cone to be improved as well as doing away with the geometry distortion of using a lens (pincushion).

HTH, Scott

Here's a stupid question. It's got to do with 0-255 vs 16-235 levels I think. I am using a media center PC. When I watch 4:3 content, the side bars are nice and black, however blacks say when watching rolling credits are dark gray.

Is there a setting in the 333 menu that I have overlooked, or is the problem at the HTPC side?

I'm thinking about replacing my "new" IN76 with a 333 since the value of the current offer is amazing.

Problem is, if the image doesn’t knock my "others" socks off she will murder me in my sleep.

Anyone care to comment? How would you quantify the difference... We currently set about 15 feet back from a 125x53 (2.35x1 Carada BW) screen. The IN76 is hooked up to an Oppo 971 and the ISCOIII is used to provide the CH stretch.

Thanks :)

-Mike

I'm thinking about replacing my "new" IN76 with a 333 since the value of the current offer is amazing.

Problem is, if the image doesn’t knock my "others" socks off she will murder me in my sleep.

Anyone care to comment? How would you quantify the difference... We currently set about 15 feet back from a 125x53 (2.35x1 Carada BW) screen. The IN76 is hooked up to an Oppo 971 and the ISCOIII is used to provide the CH stretch.

Thanks :)

-Mike
Only an opinion here -

But I think that even if you put these projectors side-by-side, you wouldn't see much difference in PQ, other than the obvious increase in brightness with the 333, and no rainbows.

If you need the brightness in your situation, or rainbows are driving you crazy, you might consider the upgrade. The AVS price on the 333 is hard to pass up.

But I seriously doubt if your wife would see a huge difference - the IN76 throws a pretty good picture.

Phil

I have had several 3 chip DLPs and of course several 1 chip DLPs. Rainbows aside the biggest
difference for me is the relaxed image with superior color & color saturation you get from a 3 chip DLP. Maybe others currently using a 3 chip can jump in here. There are other benefits but what what I just listed are what really jump out at you.

Personally, I agree with Alan on the value of 3 chip vs. 1 chip and could extoll the virtues of my demo's of the 1 chips and why I ended up with a more expensive 3 chip (C3X Lite, not SP333). But, while the virtues of the 3 chip and the particularly good price on the SP333 are clearly evident to us, it seems to come down to how your wife will see it and react. No one can predict if your wife will recognize and appreciate both the improved quality, depth of color and 3D image and brightness vs. what she has seen from your IN76. Clearly, the SP333 is an exceptional value. The question is, will your wife think so? Mine is technologically (and blissfully so) unaware. She'd just as soon watch a movie or program on a small TV as in the HT. Though more and more she is coming to enjoy the big HT scope screen and detail.

The answer to your question probably can't be found here. We all know the SP333 will be technically superior. Your wife is another story. You alone can decide which is more important.

All thing equal, farther is better. The farthest you can get with that screen and this PJ (with it's longer throw lens) is 19.2 ft (8'x2.4). There are longer throw len's available but they list for ridicilous prices. They can be had significantly cheaper but they are still very expensive. But in your room, I'd say 19' would work out fine and the extra expense of putting it against a back wall wouldn't be worth it.

At that throw, you have a wider variety of lens options. The one's I considered:
- IscoIII - most expensive best, least artifacts - I got this one.
- IscoII - may be able to find used in the 700-800 range if ou are patient. *Might* work at that throw
- Prismsonic HE type lens. They had a DIY powerbuy that saved a little - dunno if it's still going. Has motorized option.
- Luizwens' chinese lens. Inexpensive, but not much really know about it yet IMO.
- Panamorph's but I believe they excel and VC lens, not HE. And I'm of the strong opinion HE is clearly the best thing to do for a CH setup. I have a new Panamorph P752 I will be selling if you don't agree. Like the IscoII, you can find them used occasionally if you are patient. $600-$700 range usually.
Depends on your budget and pickyness I suppose.

For screens and this PJ, I'm planning on the same size, curved Stewart Firehawk ("plain curve" not Cinecurve). I love the ambient rejection properties of the FH, the assistance with black levels it provides to DLP's, and with a curve, I expect it's off-axis viweing cone to be improved as well as doing away with the geometry distortion of using a lens (pincushion).

HTH, Scott

Great tips Scott. I agree the ISCO III is probably best but is an expensive option. This great projector needs a good lens though:)

Anyone care to comment? How would you quantify the difference... FWIW, my wife isn't that video critical. I found my Optoma H79 too dim, and although I did not ever see any rainbows, I did feel eye strain frm watching a movie on my H79. My wife did as well. I attributed it to the dimness, who knows. I have a 777 now, and I don't get eyestrain, and my wife says the picture is much, much better than my H79. She likes it a lot. And big factor for her was she could more easily turnon a light over her chair and knit while watching without completley hosing the picture. I am running my 777 with a ND2 filter on a 110" Firehawk. About to upgrade to a CH scope screen now I have the lumens to do it. YMMV

Yes, therre's definitely something to be said for a bright projector, especially if it can maintain a good black level:)!!!

Has anyone who bought a InFocus/Kodak 333 ever needed to place a warranty call? If so, did how did it work. Did you get the support from Kodak or InFocus you expected? Thanks.

Bryan

I want to publicly post the warranty details for everyone.
AVS handles all warranty issues via Kodak's 1 800 service number.
All customer issues must go through us and we then take care of the replacement.
We recently had a customer who just took possession of a unit with two scraps on the back panel. His replacement unit is shipping out today at no charge to him and we also take care of pickup of his current projector. We have been lucky so far with this being the only projector in need of replacement.

Warranty is as follows:

- 2 years on projector
- 500 hours on lamp
- parts and labor included
- we will provide a replacement projector to be shipped out within 24 hr from Kodak
- customer will put bad projector in box that was shipped with a postage paid return label
- Kodak will pay all shipping for warranty projectors and lamps

Hope this helps.

Alan,

Thanks. I'm working Dave right now on at least one 333. If I'm reading the posts correctly, it looks like an earlier group of these 333s have been in AVS customer hands since Feb. I was trying to get a feel for failure rates. Sounds like your saying none have needed warranty repair. Is that correct?

Hi Bryan

0 failure rates so far. The one being replaced was for cosmetic defects. We just had one go over seas with 100% success :)

I hope this post does not jinks me :(

Alan, you're making me want to sell my Ruby and get one of these:D!!!

Here is the manual.

Does anyone have the physical dimensions (lwh) of this projector. I didn't see them in the manual.

Does anyone have the physical dimensions (lwh) of this projector. I didn't see them in the manual.
Here you go:
http://www.infocus.com/service/sp777/sp777.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&
http://www.infocus.com/service/sp777/specifications.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&

Thanks for the links.

At 24"x28"x8.5" this thing is huge, much bigger than my H77 currently hanging from ceiling. Still, I'm seriously considering upgrading to the 333.

Alan,

The manual that I got from Dave was for the 777. Do you have a 333 manual? I would think that Kodak must have had a manual for their installers to use to install the projector. Something written for the 333. Could you check with your Kodak contacts and see if they have something. Thanks, Bryan

Thanks for the links.

At 24"x28"x8.5" this thing is huge, much bigger than my H77 currently hanging from ceiling. Still, I'm seriously considering upgrading to the 333.

I certainly don't think you'll regret that decision:D!!!

Alan,

The manual that I got from Dave was for the 777. Do you have a 333 manual? I would think that Kodak must have had a manual for their installers to use to install the projector. Something written for the 333. Could you check with your Kodak contacts and see if they have something. Thanks, Bryan

I'll also try to see what we can dig up for you. If Alan can't get one though, it doesn't exist;)

Happy 4th of July weekend everybody:)!!! Be safe!!!

Scot,
I haven't seen a post from you since HD-DVD hit the streets. Have you tried it with your calibrated 333/Lumagen combo? Give us a report.

Ruby or 333? We're talking even money basically...

Ruby or 333? We're talking even money basically...
Full light control, high power screen, more rez, possibly softer image, probably smaller screen.
vs
Light cannon. Less sensitive to room or ambient, can use negative gain screen (very uniform, i.e. GrayHawk RS), or Firehawk, less resolution sharp. Larger screen no problem.

Not cut and dry, depends on your situation.

Full light control, high power screen, more rez, possibly softer image, probably smaller screen.
vs
Light cannon. Less sensitive to room or ambient, can use negative gain screen (very uniform, i.e. GrayHawk RS), or Firehawk, less resolution sharp. Larger screen no problem.

Not cut and dry, depends on your situation.

I am going crazy over making this decision. Not easy at all.
I'm leaning towards the 333 with one of the latest gen processors to get honest deinterlacing from HD-DVD and then downscaling to 720p.

Tough call, very tough call.

All valid considerations. The two-edged sword about this is that the 333 fills a curious gap, but not perfectly; it allows a big screen in a big room, but has the possible detriment of lower resolution if you are (and why wouldn't you be in a room like this) watching at a distance that gives you ~40+ degree viewing angle (~1.5x screen width). You need the high lumens for the large screen in the large room, but the benefit of 1080p would certainly be significant at the 40+ viewing angle. I'm struggling with this too. I require a low gain screen (an AT screen like CP2) in a CH 2.35 system. To achieve 1.5x/40+ dgrees viewing angle, I require a 120" screen. Not many projectors can fill the bill for under $20K; certainly no 1080p machines.

Does the HD81 hold hope with its 1400 lumens? Not really enough.

I just took a look at the professional digital cinema nominal specs (DCI). The minimum vertical pixel count is 1080. Interestingly, the minimum CR is 2000:1 (nominal). Calibrated white luminance spec at center is 14 FL. The 333 does it all for me...except resolution. Manufacturers are just going to have to come up with the technology to be able to reach the specs on 120" screens...at at an affordable price BTW. ;)

I might have missed it in the manual (docs). Where does the 333 have it's exhaust, front, side or rear ?

I require a low gain screen (an AT screen like CP2) in a CH 2.35 system. To achieve 1.5x/40+ dgrees viewing angle, I require a 120" screen. Not many projectors can fill the bill for under $20K; certainly no 1080p machines.

Does the HD81 hold hope with its 1400 lumens? Not really enough.


If it were a real 1400 lumens it would be plenty right...but we all know you will be lucky to get half that when calibrated. However, I currently use a Sony HS51 on a 120" DIY grey screen that is a 1.0 gain at best. While calibrated for best CR it is way to dim at a 200 - 300 lumens; however, it is fine when I turn off the dynamic IRIS and it is in a well light controlled environment and I am getting what I would guess at somewhere around 500-600 ansi lumens. So I would think that a DLP projector rated at 1400 lumens with no dynamic IRIS would bring us in at around 600 to 700 ansi lumens which I would think would be fine for a 120" screen. If it wasn't for the ridiculous fixed 27 degree offset the HD81 would be pretty high on my list for a next step.

I would love to have the 333, but it is a bit of a stretch for me financially. Problem is that it is within reach and makes me really think about it....Just can't quite bring myself to spend this much for a 720P projector.

Optoma? I'd be extremely leery of one after owning a H77 and H79. Their 3000 hour bulbs are generally lasting about 400-600 for a lot of owners. Can't see them having changed much in the bulb department.

What ceiling mount are you folks using with the 333? I need to drop the projector down about 12-18 inches. Thanks in advance.

mooneycj

Again, where does the 333 exhaust from, front, rear or side ?

Again, where does the 333 exhaust from, front, rear or side ?Side(s). It has large grills on each side's upper (if upside down) case. Back is connections and bulb panel only, no vents. No vents on front, either.

Side or front was what I was looking for, thanks GG.

If I get the 333 I would like to ceiling mount as close to the wall as possible. In that regard I just noticed re-Reading the manual that the lamp has to be removed to service the 333's filter and of course (Mr. Murphy) that's from the rear of the case :(.

This pj is just too big to take off a ceiling mount every time the filter has to be cleaned.
So another question.
How far from a wall should the 333 be mounted so I can remove the lamp and adequately clean the filter screen ? A rough guesstimate would be great.

What about a mount that allows you to turn the projector around to access the back side?

Teriffic idea TorAtle :).

My 777 is on a pipe type mount. Got it with the PJ, I don't know the brand, or I'd have answered the other guy. Very nice mount however. One could turn the PJ to service teh rear, but mine is pretty tight and threaded interfaces weren't really designed for periodic turning. Not a big deal, but you'd hav eto re-point the PJ every time and if you are as picky as I am, it's not as easy as it sounds to get it perfect. But I could work around that if need be. As for how much room, it's hard to say. I've never pulled my lamp, but I saw one pulled. I'd say the assembly is about 6" (http://www.infocus.com/Products/Accessories/Lamps/SP_LAMP_020.aspx). BUT, the rear panel of the PJ is a good bit in from the rearmost point. On the 777 it's all covered by a nice cover plate (rough pic on p19 & 20 of install guide - http://www.infocus.com/upload/userguides/english/sp777_install_guide.pdf), I thought I remembered someone saying the 333 is missing that plate. Either way, you have a good bit of room back thre to start with, even if it were against a wall. My tape says about 8.5"+ from tip to panel. And the bulb is recessed in that panel. I woudl not think you'd need much. Might even get away with none.

Scot,
I haven't seen a post from you since HD-DVD hit the streets. Have you tried it with your calibrated 333/Lumagen combo? Give us a report.
You haven't heard from me because I'm too busy enjoying the fantastic picture quality of my SDI-modified Denon 2910 driving the Lumagen VisionHDP scaler which feeds into the ScreenPlay 333.

But to answer your question: NO! I refuse to buy HD-DVD or Blu-Ray until one side slays the other. The 333/Lumagen/Denon 2910 SDI is a killer combination for standard DVDs and will hold me in good stead until this foolish format war is over.

Ditto. At least until the reviews get a *lot* better than they are so far. Plenty of bugs to throw off that boat before I board. Bad thing is it will jsut extend the price drop of what I expect is my next PJ - a bright 1080 (i.e. 3 chip 1080 DLP unless something else happens).

Ditto. At least until the reviews get a *lot* better than they are so far. Plenty of bugs to throw off that boat before I board. Bad thing is it will jsut extend the price drop of what I expect is my next PJ - a bright 1080 (i.e. 3 chip 1080 DLP unless something else happens).
Eh, I don't think I'll be replacing my 3-chip 720p for a 3-chip 1080p anytime in the near future. HDTV already looks fantastic on my ScreenPlay 333, so I have no doubt that a 225% increase in resolution will be even, er, fantasticer. ;) At some point though, you have to jump off the upgrade merry-go-round, sit back in your very expensive home theater, and just enjoy the damn thing. I'm off the merry-go-round as far as projectors are concerned--I'm absolutely delighted with my 333 and can't see myself replacing it with a 1080p 3-chip until prices come way, way down to near-commodity levels.

The 333/Lumagen/Denon 2910 SDI is a killer combination for standard DVDs and will hold me in good stead until this foolish format war is over. I have the same scaler as you, and retain the Oppo, which does make a superb combo. But...I also have HD-DVD and it does have significant benefits for big screens like ours. BTW, I use GET GRAY when doing all ISF calibrations now, including HD-DVD systems. Great tool! And the Lumagen is a calbrator's dream come true.

The format war looks to be not much of a war. You can check the threads about that. But there are some issues to resolve. I find them all quite managable so far.

I understand your principled reluctance on HD-DVD, but why not borrow one to take a look at it in your system? Your current calibration for your 2910 source is probably close enough to get a look. You can always adjust a little if necessary, then return to your original settings. Or you can easily adjust in the Lumagen and save to an input such as xB, C, etc., so that you don't change any of your current setttings. Just an idea.

Any others with the 333 tried HD-DVD? In a CH 2.35 system? Is so, what viewing angle does the width of your screen render?

Scot: Actually that's what I meant, too. For the 1st time since I started this I'm perfectly content with my (777) PJ. It is my hope that it will last until the 1080 do come down to similar pricing levels. I expect that to be a good long time and I'm happy to say I'm OK with it, with this PJ. It was this PJ that has cured, at least for now, my upgradeitus. WHole family likes it. It fits everyones needs just fine so far.

Scott

What ceiling mount are you folks using with the 333? I need to drop the projector down about 12-18 inches. Thanks in advance.

mooneycj

The one I spec out in all my quotes with the 333/777 is the Chief RPA-U. It's also the one they recommend for those two when you do a search on their site www.chiefmfg.com

Let me know if you need one. We can get them here at AVS.

Eh, I don't think I'll be replacing my 3-chip 720p for a 3-chip 1080p anytime in the near future. HDTV already looks fantastic on my ScreenPlay 333, so I have no doubt that a 225% increase in resolution will be even, er, fantasticer. ;) At some point though, you have to jump off the upgrade merry-go-round, sit back in your very expensive home theater, and just enjoy the damn thing. I'm off the merry-go-round as far as projectors are concerned--I'm absolutely delighted with my 333 and can't see myself replacing it with a 1080p 3-chip until prices come way, way down to near-commodity levels.
I hope Darin isn't reading.

-Mr. Wigggles

I hope Darin isn't reading.

-Mr. Wigggles

:p:D:)!!!

Dave, thanks for the advice on a ceiling mount.

Am I nuts, however? I'm thinking of replacing a Sharp XZ9000 with the 333 in a light controlled room. However, I only have a 92" diagonal Firehawk screen (45" x 80") and can't go any bigger. I will need to mount the 333 on the ceiling, drop it down about 18 inches (for a conduit) and project from 12-13 feet. Will this be too bright and hot spot? Thanks in advance for any advice.

mooneycj

You're not nuts, but on that size screen in a light controlled room I'd get rid of that Firehawk, go with a StudioTek 130 and go with the higher resolution 1080p Sony VPL-VW100 "Ruby".

mooney: FWIW, I agree with Dave. On that small a screen the 333 isn't a good fit unless you just have to have DLP. I too expect the Ruby would work on that size screen, even with a FH. I love my brightness but to give perspective I'm at 200 hours on a 777, running a ND2 filter on a 110" FH and it's just right for me.

Thanks, but the reason I said to get rid of the FH was it seems that brightness may be a priority to him, so going with a ST130 it would help that issue too. The Ruby has a good enough black level that he won't need the FH.

Don't get me wrong, if you want to keep the FH, you can just as easy get the 333 and just use it with a filter. That way you'll have the extra brightness in reserve for when the lamp ages. There's never any set answer for everyone unfortunately. You just have to choose what's best for you:) They are both excellent projectors and I can't see you unhappy with either of them, truthfully.

Actually, I pretty positive it went like this... The "original" 777 had the HD2 chipset. Not HD2+. This can be confirmed by looking up older 777 reviews. e.g. " [777's] are so new to this market that they still use Texas Instruments' HD2 1280x720 Digital Micromirror Device (DMD), not TI's newer HD2+ design." (from http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/105infocus/).

It stayed that way until October 15th of last year when all subsequent manufactured units were built using the HD2+DC3 chipset. Leapfrogging and never incorporating the HD2+ chipset in the 777 unit.

Then the 333 became available here and other places as an OEM'ed unit to Kodak for theater previews. Everything I've learned about it, says it was built using the "original" 777 chassis, pre-10/2006. Again, those units have the HD2 chipset. As Alan pointed out though, only the most critical would likely see the difference. Not to add any concern to getting one, I will say FWIW, I believe Marantz's flagship 3-chipper also has the HD2 DMD chipset, still today IIRC. With a PJ this bright, the DMD reduced dimple won't make much difference I expect, nor the micron size smaller pixel gap.

The 777 mfgr date can be determined from it's S/N, 5th,6th,7th digit are year, month (YMM). I expect the same is true of the 333. Per Infocus when I spoke to them back in Feb about the subject.

S

Gray is correct,
the 333 uses the HD2, not the HD2+ as Jason said.

I'm awful close to pulling the trigger on one of these units. Jason has me 99% sold atm I do have some questions for other owners though perhaps they could answer for me.
Is anyone using this PJ in a light controlled environment on a 140", 150" or 160" Screen ?
I'm planning on using this PJ for a 140" to 165" 16:9 - 1.0 gain -AT screen and I'm wondering if there is a sweet spot someone has found in that range for this PJ or if I should even be concerned considering the Lumens this thing can output.
Thanks for you time.
Cheers
Calvin

Gues it depends on your viewing position. Speaking of sweet spots, I'd try to not be at the len's limits, IF recommends against that. Without going to astronomical prices, there are only 3 I'd even consider for that job. In price order: 333, 777, C3X. The guy I got mine from felt 135" was a minimum for the 777 if that helps. That's what he uses for his personal 777. I have mine on a 110 as I'm mentioned, but I'm about to go with a 120" 2.35 screen, so that will burn up some FtL. Right now, I'd probably still need a ND2 filter on it even at 120.

The guy I got mine from felt 135" was a minimum for the 777 if that helps.

I have a 133" diag. 16:9 1.1 gain screen and it works great with my 333 which is mounted 18' from the screen. As for the brightness, that's what neutral density filters are for! :cool: The great thing about a projector like this is that as the bulb inevitably ages and dims, you'll still enjoy properly-illuminated picture quality because you simply switch out progressively lighter and lighter filters, until you're running no filter at all near the end of the lamp's service life.

I came up with an Excel spreadsheet to figure it all out: Foot-Lambert calculator (http://www.scottgammans.net/scooterplex2/foot-lambert-calculator.xls)

120" wide 16:9 screen (.95 gain) here. The 333 sits 23' away, and combined with the size of my screen and the negative gain, it looks absolutely stunning, imho. No need to worry about it being overly bright or SDE. I just wish a 1080p version would hurry up and get here.

Thanks for the input everyone. I should have no worries then with my short throw lens going with a 140" or larger then. My seating postions are close for that size but I perfer the IMAX type of experience.

Jason, Does AVS carry the filters for 333 lens Scott has mentioned?

Thanks
Calvin

Gues it depends on your viewing position. Speaking of sweet spots, I'd try to not be at the len's limits, IF recommends against that. Without going to astronomical prices, there are only 3 I'd even consider for that job. In price order: 333, 777, C3X. The guy I got mine from felt 135" was a minimum for the 777 if that helps. That's what he uses for his personal 777. I have mine on a 110 as I'm mentioned, but I'm about to go with a 120" 2.35 screen, so that will burn up some FtL. Right now, I'd probably still need a ND2 filter on it even at 120.


I'm considering the same size 2.35 screen.

What lense are you considering?
Can I mount on back wall (21' back)

I'm considering the same size 2.35 screen.

What lense are you considering?
Can I mount on back wall (21' back)Stock up to 1.8 is what I have. Also have a 1.8-2.25. Or do you mean which anamorphic? If the later I have a Isco III. The II *might* work at the short throw, but probably not.

Does AVS carry the filters for 333 lens Scott has mentioned
The 777 comes with a half moon cover over the lens. One can slip a 72mm lens right under it with no further adeio(sp?). That same cover isn't on teh 333 but one could add it. It's just a half circle shaped piece of black sheet metal. I did measure though and try one, a 52mm will fit almost perfect, but it does not scew in (it's loose). You'd have to stick it with something or hold it. IF makes a lens holder but it's pricey for what it is. You can get the filter at any good photo supply. Here's a good source for them and where you can get good ones: http://www.2filter.com/prices/nd_filters.htm. You want a absorptive type, not refelctive. Obviously as color neutral as possible.
bzzzzP:)

I don't sell ND filters, but generally any camera store (online or local) will have what you are looking for.

How quiet is this unit? Compare to 7210 if possible.

As I recall from memory (and I'll say it's been a bit since I have heard the SP7210), the SP333 has a bit more fan noise, but overall isn't any louder since it has no color wheel.
Overall a quiet unit.

Assuming the 333 has the same fan as a 777: When I flew out to CO to see my first 777 at Integrity Home Theater's demo, 4 of us found that particular 777 nearly silent. You had to put your ear against it to hear it. That compared to a C3X sitting near it (a table away) that was a good bit louder, we had no trouble hearing it.

When I got my 777 I found it was louder than the unit I saw in CO. A friend who got a 777 and was also in CO noticed the same thing. I've had a 7205 to demo for a few days and I can only go by memory but I'd say the 777 is quieter that it was. I'm pretty certain it was no worse. All of my comparisons as to "loud" are against my Optoma H7x's which were both nearly silent. I'm sensitive to it and the 777 hasn't botherd me any FWIW. Hope that helps, Scott

GetGary,

Thanks for the information greatly appreciated. I'll post my thoughts when I get the deal worked out and this beauty home. Jumping from a Panasonic 900 this should be quite an experience for me. I've not seen many of the "higher" end PJ as the local shops around only display the mass market ones like the 900, Z4 and some of the lower infocus units.
Thanks to Jason as well for all of the information both over this forum and over the phone.
Cheers

Here is a link for a 77mm ND multi coated. Not sure but you may need a 72mm. This is a 8x which may be to much for some. I also own a 4x. The 2x will not do much for you. Make sure you get multi coated. They cost more but no reflections or loss in contrast.


http://www.shoplocal.com/default.aspx?action=inventorydetail&inventoryid=2816046&pretailerid=-98968&redirect=%2fdefault.aspx%3faction%3dinventorydetail%26invent oryid%3d2816046%26pretailerid%3d-98968&geotest=b

You guys are really making me want to get one of these 333's:eek:!!!!

You guys are really making me want to get one of these 333's:eek:!!!!
Well then, why don't you list all the reasons your not getting one, maybe I can help sway you, ....and me.

Thanks Alan for the link.

Well then, why don't you list all the reasons your not getting one, maybe I can help sway you, ....and me.

I already have a 1080p SXRD Ruby. I am trying to decide if brightness, etc. may be a better fit for me than resolution.

I'm most likely just going to wait until I can get a 3 chip 1080p DLP since I already have the Ruby. But if that decision was going to be made today and I didn't have either, it would be a tough decision.

Quick edit :) Dave !!
give it another try, your getting there.

Huh:confused:???

Have you guys noticed that we don't discuss tweaking of our 333/777's? Nor do we struggle to find the optimum screen to project at...

Could it be because the picture is just so darn good?

Is everyone using the same mounts for their 333/777's ?

This PBM-757L mount that Jason has suggested doesn't look like it's for me after looking at the PDF installation manual I'm kind of put off on this one.

Any other choices or recommendations out there ?

Cheers

Check post#208 in this thread for another mount alternative!

Westex,
Thanks for that not sure how I missed that one. It unfortunately doesn't seem to be a whole lot different then the other one (other then it's manual is about 100x better). Doesn't anyone make one of these thing with a lock on the stem so you can't spin the PJ out of it (I realize no one would willingly do this but my current mount has a lock pin to stop the PJ from disconnecting so why don't they all have this? especially on a larger, heavier and far more expensive PJ you would think this would be a given).
I'm still looking .....

Since everyone is having such a time with the mount, I drug out my monster 777 box and looked up it's mount. It's a "Premiere Mount". You can see them at www.mounts.com, it is listed there as $199. It is identical to the one shown in Infocus's website IIRC. Here's it's PDF:

http://www.premiermounts.com/PartData/Docs/PBM-757L.pdf

It is made for the 777 (or 333), it is not a universal mount. It even comes with a ceiling plate, unlike some brands that make you buy that extra. I got my pipe at home depot for about $2.00.

It does lock via a setscrew on the pipe, but mine is screwed on tightly, it's not going anywhere setscrew or not.

HTH, Scott

I don't know if the RPAU from Chief would work. It is a universal, but I am not sure if a unit of this size will fit. Check out the specs at www.chiefmfg.com.

Doesn't both the 333 and the 777 have the same mounting dimensions? I had thought any mount working for the 777 would have to work for the 333 no? (same body and chassis?)
Thanks for the information Scott I've looked at that one but your post helps clarify somethings for me.
How did you find putting the Premier together - I frankly think the instructions are terrible - I like something with photos and step by step but that is just me -looking at that 2 page pdf for the mount I'm just a bit perplexed really as to how it all goes together (I'm sure it would be alot easier with the PJ and the mount in front of me). Did you do your own install with that mount?

Thanks for your input.

Cheers
Calvin

Have you guys noticed that we don't discuss tweaking of our 333/777's? Nor do we struggle to find the optimum screen to project at...

Could it be because the picture is just so darn good?
Not really; although the picture quality out of the box is arguably better than most, the 333 needs to be calibrated just like any other high-performance projector. I had mine calibrated by an ISF-certified technician, so the only reason I don't post a tweaks thread is that I paid someone a couple hundred bucks to do it for me. :cool:

(and p.s., don't bother asking me what adjustments I made to the 333. Most of the tweaking was done to the Lumagen scaler in my system; very few tweaks were done to the projector itself.)

Doesn't both the 333 and the 777 have the same mounting dimensions?
Yes. Dimensionally speaking, the 333 and 777 are identical twins.

I had thought any mount working for the 777 would have to work for the 333 no? (same body and chassis?)
Yes.

Thanks for the information Scott I've looked at that one but your post helps clarify somethings for me.
Glad to help. The 333 is an awesome value.

How did you find putting the Premier together - I frankly think the instructions are terrible - I like something with photos and step by step but that is just me -looking at that 2 page pdf for the mount I'm just a bit perplexed really as to how it all goes together (I'm sure it would be alot easier with the PJ and the mount in front of me). Did you do your own install with that mount?
The same ISF-certified technician who calibrated the projector also installed it on the ceiling. I figured that after spending $10.5K on the projector it wouldn't kill me to spend a few hundred bucks paying a professional to securely mount the damn beast on the ceiling! :D

Scott

The 10 IRE grey scale adjustment in the Lumagen is the best :)

Scott-

All you have to do now to complete your system is add an HD-DVD player. I think you'll find a greater improvment than the Lumagen with standard DVD can give you. You've gone to all this trouble...take that last $500 step.

TA

Just ordered a unit from Jason this morning.
Thanks to the many posters that helped me select this unit out of the crowd. I think I'm going to be very happy with the 333 for a many years to come (3 to 5 anyways).

I will hopefully be getting the unit on the 28th and will post my thoughts after my ISF installation gets done and installed. (sadly for me there is only one in the Edmonton area and they charge a lot :eek: been a upper end boutique store - what makes it worse is I'll be paying them to mount this unit twice as I'm setting it up at my current home then again in my new home when I move in November - December. Oh well not a cheap obession this A/V stuff so I'm sure it's falling on deaf ears ;) )

Cheers and thanks to AVS and Jason for all they've done getting me to this point.

Calvin

Congrats!

Which lens did you go for?

I received my anamorphic adaptor (Prismatronic H-1200R) today. The lens on the 333 is a little bit recessed, but a throw of 1.8 seems to work - just!

TotAtle,

I went with the short throw lens as I'm hoping to do a 140" to 165" 16:9 and I'm thinking of mounting it around 18' back as that is where my ceiling power plug is been installed.

Anyone have this hooked up to a gaming console? Thoughts and impressions? I've very excited to try my 360 on this unit.

Cheers