From Reuters. This looks interesting. Hadn't seen it bashed, I mean, discussed here before...

MovieBeam offers first HDTV online movie rentals
Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:19 AM ET

Robert MacMillan/Gina Keating

NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES, Feb 14 (Reuters) - A video-on-demand movie service spun out of Walt Disney Co. will introduce the first online delivery service of high-definition films to U.S. homes on Tuesday.

With top Hollywood and Silicon Valley partners, Burbank-California based MovieBeam said it plans to offer first-run films from six of the seven film studios in standard digital-video format and high-definition films from Disney (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Warner Bros. studios.

The video-on-demand service is aimed at heavy movie renters and initially will be offered in 29 U.S. cities, including New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, at prices competitive with renting the same movie at video retailer Blockbuster Inc. (BBI.N: Quote, Profile, Research).

"They appear to be ready to deliver true high-definition movies. That's a breakthrough," said Gerry Kaufhold analyst In-Stat/MDR.

MovieBeam, which was founded by Walt Disney four years ago, appeared to have run out of steam when Disney took a $24 million write-down on the company last summer. It was revived last month with a $48.5 million cash infusion from Disney, Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO.O: Quote, Profile, Research), Intel Corp. (INTC.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and three venture capital firms.

MovieBeam bypasses network bottle-necks through a technology called "datacasting", which broadcasts up to 10 new movies a week to subscribers using an exclusive transmission deal to send data signals over the Public Broadcasting System network.

Delivering high-definition (HD) videos to consumers has been restricted by the limits of high-capacity networks needed to deliver feature-length videos to millions of consumers via satellite, phone or cable TV networks.

MovieBeam's delivery also gets a jump on the emerging high-definition video disk market, which has been hampered by battles over standards.

Cisco (CSCO.O: Quote, Profile, Research) will sell the MovieBeam film storage boxes under its Linksys consumer electronics brand through U.S. electronics retailers Best Buy Co. (BBY.N: Quote, Profile, Research) CompUSA and Sears (SHLD.O: Quote, Profile, Research).

The Linksys box, with capacity for 100 movies, is priced around $200, after a rebate, and a $29 activation fee. It's meant to be stacked on top of a cable TV set-top box and comes with a paperback-book sized antenna to receive movie updates.

First-run standard format videos will rent for $3.99 and high-definition videos rent for $4.99. Older movies in the catalog cost $1.99 for standard format and $2.99 for high-definition format movies -- rates roughly in line with those at video stores.

"If you're somebody who rents an awful lot of movies, this is potentially attractive," Forrester Research analyst Josh Bernoff said.

"But, for the great mass of the movie-viewing public, getting a separate set-top box just to get movies is an awfully big stretch," he said.

JUMP-STARTING ONLINE MOVIE DELIVERY

Despite frequent obituaries for the video store industry, seven out of 10 movies are still rented at retail outlets. An estimated 85 percent of rentals are for first-run videos -- the 50 or 60 latest releases prominently featured in stores.

It's this piece of the video market that MovieBeam is targeting.

Netflix Inc. (NFLX.O: Quote, Profile, Research), which offers DVD rentals for a monthly subscription fee from a library of 55,000 films, postponed the planned 2005 launch of its own movie download service, because of problems acquiring content, according to Netflix Chief Executive Reed Hastings.

Hastings said in October that Netflix was working to develop technology to deliver online movies so the service can be ready to launch "when the content climate begins to thaw."

Media companies had resisted allowing widespread online downloading of first-run movies for fear of cannibalizing the huge profits they make on DVD sales and of losing DVD sales to piracy.

Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter said on Monday that there is also a question of whether U.S. broadband penetration is sufficient to make online downloading a significant revenue generator for the studios.

"You can't rent high-definition films today," said investor Matthew Howard of Norwest Venture Partners, a co-investor with Mayfield Fund and VantagePoint Venture Partners. "The beauty is that everyone else has to work out network access in order to offer anything similar," he said of potential online rivals.

(Additional reporting by Eric Auchard in San Francisco)
© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

The upfront costs are too expensive and the 24 hour window is stingy, at least for me.

The term online is pretty misleading.

They have a web site, moviebeam.com. There it says that new movies can be viewed for $4/day. Others for $2/day. If you want to watch them in high definition, the cost goes up to $5 for new ones and $3 for others.

This is obviously going to be another datastream piled on to OTA digital broadcasts. Most likely on ABC affiliates since it's a Disney product. Already there's a lot of pixilization on OTA signals where multicasting is used. The PBS affiliate in Springfield, MA sometimes has 5 programs on their digital signal, and pixilization is very noticeable even on shows without a lot of motion. Reallocating bandwidth to this is going to degrade the unencrypted programming even more.

The upfront costs are too expensive and the 24 hour window is stingy, at least for me.Where do you see 24 hours? I read the story twice and didn't see it. If that's true, I would agree on both counts. However, I only saw a limit on how many you can download each week, which was 10.

With prices that are comparable to a B&M store, with do physical discs to replace or stock, the rentals seem a bit high, too. With the fact that you don't need to return a disc in order for someone else to rent it, 24 hours would not be reasonable at all. With all the other rental oufits out there allowing you to keep discs as long as you want, the addition of HD doesn't do enough to sweeten such a short turnaround.

I would assume the box prevents copying of the movies. Therefore, there doesn't seem to be any motivation behind a time limit other than wanting you to have to rent it again. AHowever, I didn't see that time limit mentioned.

The box should be included in the service or this won't work. Why pay that much for something that plays movies you only rent with Blue Ray just around the corner?

Edit: I just checked the web site - the 24hr. period is listed there. People aren't going to go for that. I wouldn't and I'm usually good about returning movies on time. With so many people wanting to keep rentals longer, this goes against the trend of every other rental business.

Netflix will have Blu-ray rental. I'll just go with that.

This is obviously going to be another datastream piled on to OTA digital broadcasts. Most likely on ABC affiliates since it's a Disney product.They're using the PBS National Datacast service so ... PBS stations. Potentially some ABC O&Os ... but not affiliates. Also, in the trial locations, they only used analog spectrum for their datacasting. Not sure about the new markets.

It's about a 1 Mb/s feed.

Great idea, bad implementation. I just filled out their online form telling them so.

I mentioned the following:
1) phone line requirement. why not use an internet connection ? no support for VOIP phones.
2) Hardware cost too high. Offer free hardware with a monthly or yearly movie rental minimums
3) rental period. too short, 3-5 days seems reasonable. If the box can hold 10 movies, my not have a low monthly cost ($0.99) to keep a movie.


Hopefully if enough of us contact them they will listen.

It's available in my area, even with the rebate the startup fee is over $240 (which doesn't even include a rental). Outrageously overpriced. And I just noticed it says HDMI required for HD, which I don't have.

Why would I pay that much for something I wouldn't even own?

I love the flame jobs that appear when ever a new product is introduced. :rolleyes:

I think that we are a little short sighted.

This is one of the first HDTV on-demand delivery services that have no monthly subscriptions. MovieBeam allows us to have a catalog of high quality video content (I saw moviebeam in action in Utah a few years ago).

I think that DirecTV and DishNetwork should be on the phone with MovieBeam right now! Imagine a satellite receiver with a MovieBeam license? You could get an HDTV receiver, install your antenna to get HD OTA (and receive the MovieBeam stream) and now you have Day-in-Date movie releases. This would greatly reduce the cost of equipment (if MoveiBeam splits the cost, it could save all companies $$).

I know that Rupert wants to deliver movies day-in-date but has gotten blocked by Walmart and their Monopoly on the DVD industry. This could give him his in for Day-in-Date releases.

-Matt

Well, if they get a "flame job" as you say, they probably deserve it.

If you read the small print on their website (and there's lots of it), it says the HD movie collection is small and they require a HDMI connection for it. It remains to be seen whether or not their collection is cropped as well (but I'm betting on it).

Sorry, but their services don't come anywhere near what DirectTV or Dish offers and can't compare. As others have said, they are closer to what NetFlix offers.

Well, if they get a "flame job" as you say, they probably deserve it.

If you read the small print on their website (and there's lots of it), it says the HD movie collection is small and they require a HDMI connection for it. It remains to be seen whether or not their collection is cropped as well (but I'm betting on it).

Sorry, but their services don't come anywhere near what DirectTV or Dish offers and can't compare. As others have said, they are closer to what NetFlix offers.



I concur.

I would consider something like this if the HD PQ was found to be outstanding..

IMO, they should offer up some kind of trial period...

I cant find on thier website anywhere which movies are avaialable in HD and which ones arent..

Also, I dont see where they specify which movies are considered new releases, and which ones arent?

Anyone see this information anywhere?

Its not flaming. I think folks are just pointing the shortfalls and why they would not jump to the product. I think the concept is awesome but there are holes that are going to prevent folks from subscribing.

First off, the up front fees are too high. If they can get those down, then more folks will jump in.

I got my antenna setup working but its so complex and not very reliable for millions of folks. I think they definately would be better off using internet but there is some merit to OTA if it works datacasting off hours. Millions have broadband and its the future. I think IPTV services are going to trump this service very quickly.

The 24 rental window I dont like at all. I rent from Netflix for exactly that reason. With HD DVD and Blu-Ray support, I would rather pay $500 for an HD DVD player and rent movies return anytime than $230 for this unit only to pay $5 per movie and 24 hour window.

Keep trying Moviebeam. Good idea, just gotta lower price and be more flexible. Partnering with Microsoft and Media Center would be a good idea. Would eliminate the hardware cost as folks with Media Centers already have hardware capable of doing this. Akimbo did it and works quite well.

The 24 rental window I dont like at all. I rent from Netflix for exactly that reason. With HD DVD and Blu-Ray support, I would rather pay $500 for an HD DVD player and rent movies return anytime than $230 for this unit only to pay $5 per movie and 24 hour window.



This is the second time I've seen mention of HD DVD's for Netflix..

Has Netflix made an announcment of some sort regarding this? Can someone point me towards any threads regarding possible HD DVD rental possibilities? Tx

I cant find on their website anywhere which movies are available in HD and which ones arent..

The FAQs say that only 10% of the movies are delivered in "native HD format." Since they promise 10 new movies a week, that would mean an average of only one HD movie per week.

Also, I dont see where they specify which movies are considered new releases, and which ones arent?

Anyone see this information anywhere?

The "Coming Soon" tab describes seven upcoming new releases. Presumably the other 100 or so are available now. According to Moonbeam's "10% rule," only about 10 of the available now movies are in HD.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Netflix_to_Offer_HD_DVD_and_Bluray/1138127535

Netflix to Offer HD DVD and Blu-ray
By Nate Mook, BetaNews
January 24, 2006, 1:32 PM
Online movie rental service Netflix announced Tuesday it planned to support both new high-definition DVD formats upon their launch later this year, pledging to carry all initial HD DVD and Blu-ray movie titles and make them available for customers.

The company acknowledges that initial adoption of the formats will be slow, but it believes high-definition formats will eventually replace standard DVDs as prices fall. Toshiba expects to launch its first HD DVD player in March, and Blu-ray players will likely follow in May.


Warner Home Video, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, Paramount Pictures Home Entertainment and The Weinstein Company plan to have movies available for HD DVD. Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Lionsgate and Paramount are planning to support Blu-ray at launch with a handful of titles.

"High-definition DVD is the next wave of excitement in home entertainment and we'll be there at its inception," said Netflix CEO Reed Hastings in a statement. "With far sharper images, better sound and more features, we expect high-def will greatly enhance DVD's consumer appeal and extend its popularity over the next decade or more."

But even with the backing of Netflix and other services, both formats have a long road ahead to broad adoption. With some studios backing one format exclusively, a clear upgrade path for consumers does not exist; some movies will require HD DVD while others only work on Blu-ray players.

Still, Netflix is hedging its bets by supporting both formats and catering to home theater enthusiasts that may be willing to spend $1,000 or more to improve their home video experience. The company did not say whether high-definition versions of movies will be available under the same pricing scheme as current DVDs.

"For those subscribers who have an immediate interest in renting movies in high-def, we're committed to making the full range of titles available at Netflix the moment they're introduced," said Hastings.

The FAQs say that only 10% of the movies are delivered in "native HD format." Since they promise 10 new movies a week, that would mean an average of only one HD movie per week.



The "Coming Soon" tab describes seven upcoming new releases. Presumably the other 100 or so are available now. According to Moonbeam's "10% rule," only about 10 of the available now movies are in HD.

Good calculation. Another reason to support HD DVD and Netflix renting.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Netflix_to_Offer_HD_DVD_and_Bluray/1138127535

Netflix to Offer HD DVD and Blu-ray
By Nate Mook, BetaNews
January 24, 2006, 1:32 PM
Online movie rental service Netflix announced Tuesday it planned to support both new high-definition DVD formats upon their launch later this year, pledging to carry all initial HD DVD and Blu-ray movie titles and make them available for customers.

The company acknowledges that initial adoption of the formats will be slow, but it believes high-definition formats will eventually replace standard DVDs as prices fall. Toshiba expects to launch its first HD DVD player in March, and Blu-ray players will likely follow in May.


Warner Home Video, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, Paramount Pictures Home Entertainment and The Weinstein Company plan to have movies available for HD DVD. Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Lionsgate and Paramount are planning to support Blu-ray at launch with a handful of titles.

"High-definition DVD is the next wave of excitement in home entertainment and we'll be there at its inception," said Netflix CEO Reed Hastings in a statement. "With far sharper images, better sound and more features, we expect high-def will greatly enhance DVD's consumer appeal and extend its popularity over the next decade or more."

But even with the backing of Netflix and other services, both formats have a long road ahead to broad adoption. With some studios backing one format exclusively, a clear upgrade path for consumers does not exist; some movies will require HD DVD while others only work on Blu-ray players.

Still, Netflix is hedging its bets by supporting both formats and catering to home theater enthusiasts that may be willing to spend $1,000 or more to improve their home video experience. The company did not say whether high-definition versions of movies will be available under the same pricing scheme as current DVDs.

"For those subscribers who have an immediate interest in renting movies in high-def, we're committed to making the full range of titles available at Netflix the moment they're introduced," said Hastings.

Wow! Awesome Brewer..I had not heard about this at all..

Wow! Awesome Brewer..I had not heard about this at all..

I am on the fence of who will win the format war (dont really care). But the initial price is pretty good for HD DVD ($500 for first unit) and with the announcement of Netflix, it made it pretty easy for me to give it a try. If Blu-Ray wins, then I will buy one of those, hopefully in a year or 2 when the prices come down. Its a chunk of change but I dont buy movies anymore, only rent and I think the HD DVD with renting combo gives me a good selection of HD viewing without having to wait for Directv or anyone else to up their HD channels.

I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully. Sorry.

Concerning up-front cost: An upconverting DVD-player will cost around $200 (for a good quality unit). These DVDs are not in native 720p or 1080i.

For roughly the same price as an upscaling DVD player, I can have access to at least 10 movies a week in HD, and 90 movies that are at DVD quality and the machine will scale for me. (I hope the scaler isn't crap).

Concerning over-the-air reception: In Utah when they tested this format (using PBS) it was carried on the analog station at full ERP. I hope that we are not drawing any parallels between an ATSC broadcast at less than half its licensed power and an analog station that is broadcasting at full power.

I am making the assumption that MovieBeam will continue to use PBS for their transmition (inexpensive to contract with and frankly they need the money) and will use the NTSC signal to piggy-back onto.

Pricing of the rentals: If you compare their pricing to Blockbust and Hollywood video, MovieBeam isn't out of line. I do agree that their rental period should be longer or more like Netflix. If MovieBeam would allow you to "checkout" a movie for a week or allow unlimited views until you request another title then I feel their pricing would not need to change.

I guess I like the fact that I do not need an internet connection to receive my movies. For Joe and Joanne Six Pack, this is an easy product to introduce into the family room, plus it saves a trip to the video store and they do not need to worry about some a** hole creating a virous that begins to bill their MovieBeam account for every movie the hacker decides to buy.

I am not saying that MovieBeam is perfect, but I belive that these initial issues that you all are speaking of can be easily resolved. The idea is sound and the product is intriguing.

For what it is worth, I would really like to see What MovieBeam could do if they had 2/3 of a PBS stations bandwidth during the daytime hours (when most local PBS stations are broadcasting upconverted NTSC). I would be all for a local PBS affiliate that sends out 480i/p from 9am to 6pm and left the rest of the bandwidth to allow MovieBeam to send out many feeds of content.

"For Joe and Joanne Six Pack, this is an easy product to introduce into the family room"

One problem, OTA reception, how many Joe and Joanne Six Pack's are going to want to strap an antenna on their roof to make this work? You need to consider the cost of an antenna into the up front costs for those that don't have them and that can vary a lot depending on the persons location to their local PBS towers.

I agree this product has potential, the current delivery method is going to limit it's audience though.

I think the $250.00 (Yea I know $200.00 with a $50.00 rebate) cost is a little high. Considering you still need to rent movies for it to be any good.

how many Joe and Joanne Six Pack's are going to want to strap an antenna on their roof to make this work? You need to consider the cost of an antenna into the up front costs for those that don't have them and that can vary a lot depending on the persons location to their local PBS towers. The Moviebeam comes with an amplified indoor antenna. No need for the Six Pack family to strap an antenna to the roof. Reception area is certainly a limitation. The Moviebeam website asks for your address and then tells you if you are in their reception area. If not, it won't let you buy.
The user manual (online) says to only use the included indoor antenna. The unit probably doesn't include the UL required safety items on the antenna input for an outside antenna.

Matt

It looks like they are restarting this today. If anyone either has one of these, or purchases one, please start upa new thread so that the discussion of the pro's and con's of the actual device and how it performs can be discussed.

I'm actually in the target audience. I can receive the signal, have an HD TV, and don't have access to any other HD content. If the box were free I probably wouldn't give trying the service a second thought.

One drawback that I can see is that because they are using the datacasting model (i.e. limited # of films/shows sent to everyone) it does limit the variety available versus an IP based system where you could order up anything that you wanted. Of course, that service in HD doesn't exist yet either. And I thought that I read somewhere that something like 80%of movie rentals are the top50-60 films in any case. Good luck to them, if nothing else it will provide additional reasons for the other HD suppliers to get more HD out. And maybe even kick start the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray camps into releasing hardware.

Robert

I spent some time researching this deal because it sounded good. Just read the posts here.

The biggest drawback for me is that only 10% of the movies are in widescreen format!!! Incredible. When I talked to them, they said that may or may not be the same 10% that are available in HD. If all the movies were widescreen so we could watch in OAR, I would seriously consider this deal. But to drop $200 to be able to choose from 10-20 movies is a tough sell.

And just to be clear, the box is always loaded with the current 100 movies. So, length of rental is not an issue. When you decide to sit down and watch a movie, it is already there so there is no issue on length. You can watch the movie over and over for a 24 hour period but the movies don't go away. 10 new movies are downloaded each week. When I talked to them, they told me they would come out and even put an outdoor antenna up for you if reception was an issue with their little box antenna inside.

I would be concerned about the quality of their HD output. If their 720p HD output over HDMI is good quality, they should have a winner on that front.

And the box only has 160GB HD. That obviously is the limiting factor on storing more than 10 HD movies. With technology pricing going down, one would think they could put at least a 250GB HD in like an HD Tivo.

I sent their press contacts an email stating my comments above. If they make a change to offering all widescreen, I think the $200 is not a bad investment and the rental pricing is ok too considering they have solved the hassle factor of renting at a store or with Netflix.

The Moviebeam comes with an amplified indoor antenna. No need for the Six Pack family to strap an antenna to the roof. Reception area is certainly a limitation. The Moviebeam website asks for your address and then tells you if you are in their reception area. If not, it won't let you buy.
The user manual (online) says to only use the included indoor antenna. The unit probably doesn't include the UL required safety items on the antenna input for an outside antenna.

Matt

Thanks for the info, they really need to come up with a better delivery method don't they. :)

To me it seems like yet another way that Disney and Co want to sell you stuff that you do not actually own.

I guess some people might go for that busniess model but personally I am not a fan.

I also concur that 1 movie per week in HD (that is not of your choosing) is a non-starter.

The 24 hour window seems fine... I can't imagine many people starting a movie and not finishing within 24 hours?

Anyways... interesting thought... would work for me if you bought the box and the movies came for free... :)

Cheers!

They could go like VOOM or BOOM and you drop $200.00 then they go away in a year. Then you have yourself a nice boat anchor.

Since Cisco/Linksys bought Kiss last year I'm wondering if the $200 box is based on Kiss DP-600 players that are supposed to come out tomorrow in Europe (plays HD, DivX, XVid, WMV, MP3, WMA, etc). If so then the player may have more uses than just the downloaded streams.

They could go like VOOM or BOOM and you drop $200.00 then they go away in a year. Then you have yourself a nice boat anchor.

Ya, get a PS3 for $499 (if you can get your hands on one) and rent some disks from Netflix, if BD sucks and you have no use for the PS3, dump it on FleaBay and make $200-$500 to boot..

Maybe Moviebeam will take off, who knows, but it sounds like a wireless Divx that is sans discs to me...

b2b

You also need a landline phone connection.

Well, either way I'm not going to get it, because I already have HD Ondemand from my cable company and I don't need an HDMI connection to get it.

Well, if they get a "flame job" as you say, they probably deserve it.

If you read the small print on their website (and there's lots of it), it says the HD movie collection is small and they require a HDMI connection for it. It remains to be seen whether or not their collection is cropped as well (but I'm betting on it).

Sorry, but their services don't come anywhere near what DirectTV or Dish offers and can't compare. As others have said, they are closer to what NetFlix offers.


There is no HD at Netflix nor Directv for that matter.

The FAQs say that only 10% of the movies are delivered in "native HD format." Since they promise 10 new movies a week, that would mean an average of only one HD movie per week.



The "Coming Soon" tab describes seven upcoming new releases. Presumably the other 100 or so are available now. According to Moonbeam's "10% rule," only about 10 of the available now movies are in HD.


Howdy neighbor! That is a pretty low initial rate. This should be higher as more titles are available. So the success of this may depend in part on BD/HD-DVD adoption.

There's bound to be some avs'ers that will subscribe to this new serivce. I hope they report back on their findings. I'm for this idea in spirit because it does appear a bit as out-of-the-box in thinking. Tis' better to have disrupted and failed then never to have disrupted at all.

Sounds intresting and was "almost" going to consider it today until I read on here, only 1 HD movie a week. Forget it! Their not going to get the growing HD audience (the type of early adaptors who would invest in this in the first place) with those kind of stats. Besides Netflix will offer HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in the coming months if you just hold off. I love on their FAQ section how they explain how not all movies will be in HD on Moviebeam especially older library movies shot on film in standard def format... Thats their excuse for limited HD movies and not admitting they don't have enough room with their system which is the real reason .

So close yet so far away. It blows my mind that in 2006 a company would release a brand new product that needs to "phone home" and doesn't have a Cat5 jack.

I went to the website to order and saw the home phone requirement and ended up sending them an email letting them know why I didn't buy.

I talked to my wife about this, she is anything but high tech.
Her response was, "$200 and only 100 movies, I'd stick with netflix".

Of course my response was, "but its HD", which seems silly considering only 10% of the movies are in HD. That makes them as good as DIRECTV's HD PPV, which is playing "Mad Hot Ballroom" right now. Yeah!

BD can't get here fast enough.

Apparantly the MovieBeam service works using a DNTSC subcarrier on you local PBS's analog channel.

Perhaps someone with expercience in broadcast engineering could go through these links and do a better job figuring it out and explaining it.

http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=15711&hed=Video-Store-in-a-Box+Funded&sector=Regions&subsector=Americas
http://broadcastengineering.com/news/broadcasting_disney_offer_moviebeam/
http://www.nationaldatacast.com/index.html
http://dotcast.com/

There is no HD at Netflix nor Directv for that matter.

Netflix has annouced they will carry HD-DVD and Blu-Ray rentals as pointed out in post 19 of this thread. Directv does have an HD PPV channel granted it's not on-demand.

Yesterday, I sent Moviebeam an email asking about the lack of widescreen choices. Here is their response today:

_______________________

Thanks for your comments about MovieBeam. We appreciate feedback from
customers; it lets us know how we're doing and helps us along in our
ongoing effort to provide you with a world-class entertainment
experience.

Your specific suggestion was as follows:

"The 10% widescreen answer is not really acceptable. I only rent
widescreen movies on DVD and would NEVER look at a SD full screen movie;
will you never have more than 10 HD movies on the box at one time?"

All releases that are available in widescreen are being ordered in that
format. You will see the percentage steadily increase over the next few
months.

MovieBeam has been working hard to bring you the best titles in HD. Many
of our HD titles were acquired right before launch. We'll be updating
our web site shortly so you'll be able to see both current and future HD
offerings.

Thank you again for taking time to let us know how you feel about
MovieBeam. We welcome further comments and hope that you will always
feel free to contact us, either by email -- as you've done -- or by
calling us at 1-866-865-1500.

Watch On,
The MovieBeam Production Team

So their content is delivered on a subchannel of the PBS OTA HD feed? With a set-top antenna?

They've got to be kidding... their reception map indicates I can get the signal while I know for a fact I can't get PBS HD OTA. A blanket statement that people in hilly areas like Seattle or San Francisco can get HD via a set-top antenna is just nuts.

KC

So their content is delivered on a subchannel of the PBS OTA HD feed? With a set-top antenna?

They've got to be kidding... their reception map indicates I can get the signal while I know for a fact I can't get PBS HD OTA. A blanket statement that people in hilly areas like Seattle or San Francisco can get HD via a set-top antenna is just nuts.

KC

No, it's not a digital feed. It's carried by PBS National Datacast Service, which uses analog broadcast signals.

Will this still work when analog goes away?

24-hour makes this a no-go for casuals (ie. people with kids and/or who work).

if you wanted to watch half a movie one night and the second half another that eliminates this possibility.

disney needs to be more competive with pricing AND time window (72-hours is more realistic)

24-hour makes this a no-go for casuals (ie. people with kids and/or who work).

if you wanted to watch half a movie one night and the second half another that eliminates this possibility.

disney needs to be more competive with pricing AND time window (72-hours is more realistic)

I emailed moviebeam about this issue and their response was basically to say that is how VOD works today so they will use the same model.

i'll email them later. they can't just clone VOD and expect to succeed. we already have "VOD" working (for cable users it's zero upfront costs), and perhaps netflix/blockbuster accounts. i also have hundreds of free movies available "on demand" and a couple in HDTV too.

I emailed moviebeam about this issue and they response was basically to say that is VOD is today so they will use the same model.So why are they charging $250 to buy the box?:confused:

At least with cable you are getting other channels/services. If they are following the VOD model, the should charge a minimal cost to purchase or lease the box.

i just sent this over..

I read about your service on an HDTV blog then went over to avsforum.com to search more. It is regretful that your service is very limiting to casuals and fanatics.

1. 24-hour movie rental window is unworkable for people with jobs and or kids. You can't start a movie one night and finish it the next night. If you think this is sufficient becasue "ondemand" and "vod" has it you're mistaken. We already have and "ondemand" (from Comcast at no upfront cost mind you - along with a HDTV receiver) and secondly we might have Netflix/Blockbuster accouts. This smacks of typical "disney" wanting to squeeze every penny out of people.

2. HDTV limited to 1-2 movies a week? And at a HIGHER price? Hello but HDTV is a niche area you can gain fanatic early adopters, yet you are restricting such users.

3. phone line. Did you guys ever hear of an ethernet port? That should be at least an option as anyone paying $250 to rent movies (with a separate box) might just have cable/dsl internet at the home... don't 'ya think?

4. Any "free movie previews"? I get many free "ondemand" movies from comcast including a 4-6 free HDTV movies per month.

5. OAR. Original Aspect Ratio - will you guys respect it? Will you be offering wide screen films? Not just cropped to "16x9 widescreen" i'm also talking about 2.35 ie. Panavision/scope films not cropped down to 16x9.

6. Pricing. Too high for new releases. Not competitive with netflix. HDTV should NOT have a $1 upcharge. Marginally competitive with ondemand/vod (but again that equipment is free and we already have cable working so we're a passive audience).

Apologies, as this letter got a bit rude but just thinking about the missed opportunity here is highly agitating. Good luck to you as I hope I am wrong and you succeed so that future improvements allow me to be a customer oneday.

If they are following the VOD model, the should charge a minimal cost to purchase or lease the box."VOD Model" = VOD distribution window / model ... the contracts between the distributor and the studios.

If Moviebeam wants to offer more than a 24 hour viewing period they certainly can do so. They just have to pay the studios more (and would presumably pass the cost on to the customer). Paying the studios the same for a longer viewing window would mean the studios would have to offer everyone else in that distribution window the same deal ...

That's the way distribution contracts are written.

How much more would you pay for a 72 hour viewing window instead of a 24 hour one?

Now, MovieBeam should be able to take advantage of the MovieLink "MultiPlay" clause ... after your first 24 hour viewing period expires you can rent the movie again for a reduced rate (like $0.99). Interesting to see if they do ...

So why are they charging $250 to buy the box?:confused:

At least with cable you are getting other channels/services. If they are following the VOD model, the should charge a minimal cost to purchase or lease the box.The high cost to buy the box really gets me. Get a lease model or even $99.00. But $250.00 then $30.00 to get it up an running.. :mad:

Will this still work when analog goes away? No. Of course the USB and ethernet port allow for the possibility of an external ATSC tuner.

The high cost to buy the box really gets me. That is some cash, but the WD 160GB hard drive is worth nearly $100 of the $200 ($230 with activation) you pay for it (after rebate). I bought a $60 DVD player just so I could play my home theater intro disk without having to change disks. Although the $230 just gets you going, some people will find the convenience worth it.

I agree that the 24 hour rental period is a little short especially for those with kids. 36 hours would be about perfect.

Matt

Nothing about this is "online" at all. No offense to anyone, but the title of the thread is misleading.

"MovieBeam offers first broadcast movie rental delivery system" would be much more accurate.

That being said, I don't think this is going to make it.

MovieBeam has been out for less than 2 days and at this point I'm going out on a limb and predicting its failure. When I first blogged about this yesterday morning I was pretty excited, but after further investigation I'm convinced it will fail and here is why.

The biggest challenge with any new technology is adoption by the consumer. People are creatures of habit and often they don't use the best, but more likely what they know. This explains why so many people still go to the Video store or use the Windows "Classic Menu". Unless they can be convinced that the new technology is noticeably better than the old, they won't try it. There are early adopters that long to try new technology, but MovieBeam is not setting themselves up to please these people either.


The main problem I see for normal people is the upfront cost and the selection of movies. Most already have a DVD player or VOD available from their main content provider, so right out of the gate it's going to cost them at least $200. This for a box that has no other purpose than to rent movies, when their DVD player can do that and be used to play the movies they own. The Cable or Satellite box can be used for VOD or be used to watch normal TV.

Selection: The video store and the cable company have more than 100 movies available to choose from, so there is something for everyone. MovieBeam does have an advantage with the new movies that are in high demand. I believe MovieBeam would be more successful with a subscription based revenue stream; they should give the boxes away for free with a 1 year commitment and charge $30 a month to watch all the movies you want. I think this would entice people to try the new service and spend more. If you consider that at $4.00 a movie, most wouldn't accrue $30 a month in charges, which would be about 2 movies a week. This would however guarantee $360 a year per subscriber for at least the first year. This works for Netflix now and before I signed up with Netflix, I never spent $240 a year renting movies.

Now for the early adopters, there is a real opportunity here for HD considering current options for HD movies are slim to none. MovieBeam is not enticing as an HD option, because according to the MovieBeam site only 10% of their content is HD. So that means 10 movies are shipped on the box and you get one new movie per week in HD. This is no better than the HD VOD offering from most cable companies. On top of that, the land-line requirement is another sticking point; I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't had a land line in years, plus how hard would it be to support WiFi or Ethernet? I would try the service despite everything else, if it weren't for that requirement. I would bet that many other potential early adopters are in the same boat.

The last reason is picture quality. Although most people aren't hard to please, some (early adopters) demand high picture quality. I will admit that I haven't seen the box in action or read any accounts of it, but here's why I think the picture quality won't be that great. The STB is reported to have a 160GB hard drive. Current DVDs can hold ~8.5GB, at this rate the box could hold 20 to 30 movies. We can assume the box uses the latest and greatest codec and we know it comes with 100 movies pre-loaded. So if we pretend that all the movies take up the same amount of space, that is 1.56GB per movie and that is assuming you can use the entire 156GB. I have seen some good DivX rips, but never DVD quality at 1.56GB per movie, let alone any form of HD quality.

Only time will tell if this is the case, but I for one will not be the one to try it out.

Originally posted at
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/02/15/moviebeam-who-wants-it/

I think that this is an interesting idea and yes a Media Center interface would decrease the costs. I really think that sending them e-mail with these suggestions is a good idea. This is a new start up per se and if they are able to listen to some of these suggestions and implement them, this could give Netflix etc a run for their money.

Think about it ...how cool would it be to just decide last minute to watch a movie and bam there it is. I know pay per view is there also but if the price was right I would rather do this then pay for a movie service that has the same crappy movies on every other day!!!

And when the hacker threads start I am sure there is a way to get the movies into a hard drive....oppsss...did I say that.

Larry

The HDMI requirement for HD movies is completely uneccessary and completely limiting their customer base. This essentially seems like a Movielink or CinemaNow type service.

I guarantee that within a year they'll be giving the box away for free with something like 10 free rentals.

can the other services give HD movies???

Larry

can the other services give HD movies???

LarryIf you're speaking of the computer distributed services I mentioned, they can, although MovieLink offers nothing but trailers (I've sent them emails on this with no response), and CinemaNow offers a few IMAX movies, and that's about it.

If they offered mainstream movies I would jump on those services in a minute, and I'm still uncertain as why they haven't been able to offer them.

That's my point. I have not seen anything like this for HD....sorta like Voom on demand....

At CES there were lots of companies coming out with all sorts of stuff like Akimbo and VOD etc but this seems the most interesting to me.....

I mean think about it. The box holds 100 movies that are ready to go when you are....how cool it that. I will talk with them to see if this can be used inside a MCE enviroment. I see in the future this type of service already in a MCE box ready to go when you buy it etc. etc.

I think that this is a good start and should only get better. The problem I see is that the average(we are not average) consumer has no idea really what HD is. All they know is what they see at Costco , Best Buy etc....

I would personally rather have a monthly fee with this type of service then a per movie fee. I personally don't think the box is that expensive if it can produce true HD with a front projector etc. I have a monthly fee with Hollywood Video and pay like $15.00/month with all fees applied and it is totally worth it especially since we have two kids and I am never presurred to watch a movie I just call and renew it. I would rather see this type of service with this company and would think this would be succesful.....I also want a pizza button on the remote!!!! (this is coming BTW...well maybe not on the remote but you get the idea).

Larry

I love NetFlix, but I think this could server a very REAL and problem with both NetFlix and BB movies-by-mail system. This allows new releases to be available to a much larger audience rather than the month long waits that most NetFlix renters go through for new releases. It can't touch the large and varied collection that NetFlix offers.

I still think this is doomed. Give the boxes away and offer phone line or internet activation ( with a USB dongle ). I think they are also openeing themselves up for MAJOR lawsuit if they relesed these boxes despite the fact that they KNOW it will by useless in 3 years when the analog datacasting goes away.

Read the following and I think it answers some of your questions or at least why they did what they did.

http://www.dotcast.com/news/CNETNews.doc

Larry

The HDMI requirement for HD movies is completely uneccessary and completely limiting their customer base. This essentially seems like a Movielink or CinemaNow type service.

I guarantee that within a year they'll be giving the box away for free with something like 10 free rentals.

The HDMI is used because it has HDCP just like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be HDMI only, Without it they never would have got the movie license. But i agree it is limiting. I would have went for this even with buying the box if the time limit wasn't so short. I think there going to run into problems when HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are available at video stores, They can compare the time limit to on demand service for about another month but after that its not going to fly sense people can rent either formats by going into a video store for 5 days instead of 24 hours and isnt the video store a dollar cheaper also? although who knows if they will change it for HD media. Or even better, keep it for as long as YOU want with netflix.

As far as competition I think it is doomed just from a numbers standpoint. No way can they compete with a digital service like something that Comcast VOD offers, and they give thousands of hours of programming away for free.

Well after a little research it seems tha the VP of this company was responsible for the Directv rollout.....can you say Direct TV hd box with MovieBeam built in???

Also do you think the average consumer(again we are not average) will know the difference if they rent a HD movie but play it on a regular dvd machine or do you really think that when HD-dvd rolls out in March that your local BlockBuster will load up on hd-dvd video?????

I would assume it will be a very slow intergration like you saw with dvd's overtaking Blockbuster etc over tape video's........ average consumers that already have dvd's and like what they see are not going to flock for hd-dvd's. Read the reviews of people that went to CES, like myself. The blue-ray and Hd-dvd demo's were cool but nothing shocking...plus I don't have a 3 chip front projector like the ones in the demo's that has 1-80p either. Blockbuster etc went to dvd since it cost them like $25.00 instead of the tape that was $70.00 per for them. If the cost is not low for them to implement it then there is not market rush for them to do it......But if Netflix is going to at least it's a good way to "test" out the technology.

Larry

Well after a little research it seems tha the VP of this company was responsible for the Directv rollout.....can you say Direct TV hd box with MovieBeam built in???

Also do you think the average consumer(again we are not average) will know the difference if they rent a HD movie but play it on a regular dvd machine or do you really think that when HD-dvd rolls out in March that your local BlockBuster will load up on hd-dvd video?????

I would assume it will be a very slow intergration like you saw with dvd's overtaking Blockbuster etc over tape video's........ average consumers that already have dvd's and like what they see are not going to flock for hd-dvd's. Read the reviews of people that went to CES, like myself. The blue-ray and Hd-dvd demo's were cool but nothing shocking...plus I don't have a 3 chip front projector like the ones in the demo's that has 1-80p either. Blockbuster etc went to dvd since it cost them like $25.00 instead of the tape that was $70.00 per for them. If the cost is not low for them to implement it then there is not market rush for them to do it......But if Netflix is going to at least it's a good way to "test" out the technology.

Larry


No most of the average consumers won't go for the HD media and i doub't they will jump on this all that fast either (Maybe if you didnt half to buy the box) but thats true with any new technology. We won't know what the retail video stores will do till the formats are here obviously but there going to lose alot of money if they don't, I mean i know alot of people are average consumers but how many men below the age of 30 (Sorry older guys, not calling you untechy lol) or so do you know that aren't into tech stuff? Its not like that number is so low that it doesn't matter.

This concept shows promise. However, the execution is startlingly inept.

I cannot believe that Moviebeam requires a landline in this day and age. My wife and I only use cell phones. When you look at the cost of even the most basic landline telephone service (plus taxes, Universal Service Fund recovery fees and miscellaneous BS) it comes out to no less than $20. This will get you a fair number of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies per month from Netflix. Moreover, the $3 or $5 dollar rental fee per movie with Moviebeam just pushes you up to four or five movies per month with Netflix. Bad move.

The thing that kills me is I want Moviebeam to succeed. Cable and even Netflix need the competition. There is a lot of good to be said for not having to wait two or three days for the next movie. At $3 per movie for ALL hi def movies, I would probably spend a little more per year on Moviebeam than Netflix, but end of watching more movies. Then again, I often prefer catalog titles to the most recent popcorn summer movies.

The next shortfall with Moviebeam seems to be the lackluster support for OAR and Dolby Digital 5.1 even on those movies that are SD. Sure, Gone with the Wind should be shown in 4:3, but most movies from the 1950's onward should not. While Moviebeam claims to offer 10% of its 100 movies in hi def, these six were the only ones on their movie list that were listed as such:
Batman Forever
The Perfect Storm
Deep Blue Sea
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind
Sacred Planet (wtf?)
Cold Mountain

Maybe I don't get out enough, but I haven't even heard of the last three. If this is all Netflix has to worry about, the battle is already over. The starting lineup for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD beats this list hands down. (Just a minor quibble. The hi def movies on Moviebeam's web site account for only six out of ninety-five movies. That is 6.3%, substantially less than the meager 10% that Moviebeam said they would offer)

Once again, it probably sounds like I'm being too harsh. I want this service to succeed. This is one of the few legitimate uses I've seen of datacasting or pay per view services over the public airways. I far prefer Moviebeam to USDTV (and its non-HD Discovery, ESPN, and ESPN 2) or multicasted religious/PAX channels that are forced onto cable through must-carry. Nonetheless, it shouldn't be too hard to launch a set top box that can "phone home" over the internet and that comes with a hard drive bigger than 160GB. Disney, it isn't too late to fix Moviebeam!

The main problem I see for normal people is the upfront cost and the selection of movies. Most already have a DVD player or VOD available from their main content provider, so right out of the gate it's going to cost them at least $200. This for a box that has no other purpose than to rent movies, when their DVD player can do that and be used to play the movies they own.One thing to note is that Moviebeam doesn't really seem to want to be in the dedicated box business. They are now ... but that does not seem to be their long term goal and it certainly doesn't seem to be their intent to subsidize hardware ...

They seem to want to embed Moviebeam in other boxes. Buying a CableCard/OTA HD DVR for $400? For $450 you can buy a CableCard/OTA HD DVR / Moviebeam box.

If they are to be successful ... they see themselves added on (like the Moviebeam media center add on) or embedded in other products.

Am I the only who see a major problem with this arrangement?

They are using PUBLIC airwaves to deliver ENCRYPTED content! That is WRONG!

There is a specific contract between broadcast network with the government for the free use of public resource (broadcast frequency spectrum), they must provide a FREE public service (i.e. broadcast programs).

Sure they can make money off of that service, but the service itself must be free.

This is like leasing a public space for free by promising to build a park for everyone then building a mall and charging rent. That is a theft of public resource.

A typical auction of public airwaves generate billions of dollars, why should we be giving the spectrum away when we can charge the company DIRECTLY for their use? (man, with the deficit being where it is, we can USE the revenue)

If PBS station wants to sub-lease their spectrum, they should get a law to support that endeavor. Not just sell it to the highest bidder.

Am I the only who see a major problem with this arrangement?

They are using PUBLIC airwaves to deliver ENCRYPTED content! That is WRONG!

There is a specific contract between broadcast network with the government for the free use of public resource (broadcast frequency spectrum), they must provide a FREE public service (i.e. broadcast programs).

Sure they can make money off of that service, but the service itself must be free.

This is like leasing a public space for free by promising to build a park for everyone then building a mall and charging rent. That is a theft of public resource.

A typical auction of public airwaves generate billions of dollars, why should we be giving the spectrum away when we can charge the company DIRECTLY for their use? (man, with the deficit being where it is, we can USE the revenue)

If PBS station wants to sub-lease their spectrum, they should get a law to support that endeavor. Not just sell it to the highest bidder.

Well you better get mad about D*, E*, XM-radio, USDigital, cell phones and a whole bunch of other stuff that uses the public air waves for private gain. I would say at least half of the digital signal bandwidth from the change over to DTV will end up being used for pay services instead of a free HD signal. In fact OTA television will only be around to fulfill the minimal requirements just to keep a broadcast license. After analog is switched off, free OTA TV will slowly wither away in about 10 years.

b2b

Ummm, what makes you think that those companies are using public spectrum for free? Mobile carriers, DirecTV, Dish, XM, Sirius, et al ALL paid for their spectrum through government auction. Here is a link if you don't believe me (http://www.blitzsafe.com/blitz_news/news052003a/body_news052003a.html).

I have no problems with pay-per-view(listen) services over the air as long as they purchase the right (in fact, the administration expects to raise tens of billions of dollars from new spectrum sale over next couple of years).

I have a major problem if they are sub-leasing the spectrum from broadcast companies who are leasing it for free.

I have no problems with pay-per-view(listen) services over the air as long as they purchase the rightThey do. They have to pay 5% of the revenue they recieve from those services to the US Treasury.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitalpublicTV.html
This is in addition to their regular broadcast license / fees.

They do. They have to pay 5% of the revenue they recieve from those services to the US Treasury.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitalpublicTV.html
This is in addition to their regular broadcast license / fees.

They pay fees, but they NEVER had to pay for the rights (by promising to provide goods to communities for free). Mobile phone companies and others have spent billions and billions of dollars to GET the right to those spectrum in addition to paying fees for usage.

If a company like MovieBeam wants to offer their service OTA, they should go through the auction process like everyone else. Why should they get the free pass by piggybacking on companies who promised to offer their service for free?

Here is their answer to my question about a lease option:

Thanks for contacting MovieBeam Customer Care. I'll be happy to answer
your question today.

With MovieBeam, you'll only pay for the movies you watch. There are no
installation fees, monthly subscription fees or commitments. And you'll
never pay a late return fee again.

We performed research in test markets and found that the option to
lease was not widely accepted.

We're always glad to be of assistance. If you have any further
questions, please feel free to contact us at 1-866-761-2326, visit our
web site at www.moviebeam.com, or send us another email message.

We can't wait to start providing you with instant movies!

Watch On,
The MovieBeam Production Team

I saw a full page ad in the Sunday paper for Moviebeam.

I must say I find the service interesting and one that I may use in the future.

I see their market as the satellite subs who do not have a viable VOD service. In this regard, I qualify.

I am not interested in Netflix as the sub fee is too high to interest me. PPV, whether satellite or Moviebeam, is much more to my liking. I rarely rent locally either, as this means having to go to the video store and wander around to select movies. Then, there's all this pressure to watch them before it's time to return them. I just don't like this paradigm either.

Now a box that holds 100 movies, up to 10 HD, this I could go for. I can easily see this evolving to a larger number as HD tv penetration increases.

I don't consider the price unreasonable for a HD box I'll be purchasing.

Really, I'm going to keep my eye on this service. If it struggles as Voom did, I won't adopt it. But if it is popular, I'll be there.

Acura - at a meager one $3.99 a week ... netflix is MUCH cheaper.

perhaps you didn't explain yourself

Netflix: cheapest plan $10 per month.

Suppose I don't have time/interest in a given month to watch a movie?

Netflix: $10 for nothing.

Moviebeam: $0 for nothing.

I'm not saying I am typical. Netflix has a demographic ... I think Movielink does too.

Also, Netflix: no possibility of HD movies (for me).

Moviebeam: HD movies.

Netflix has annouced they will carry HD-DVD and Blu-Ray rentals as pointed out in post 19 of this thread. Directv does have an HD PPV channel granted it's not on-demand.


At this point in time there is no HD at Netflix and there is no HD on D* unless ESPNHD 1 and 2 counts. D* delivers 1280x1080i at reduced bitrates. Not HD.

First-gen boxes will need an add-on to keep working after analog cut-off:But the box won't work in its current configuration come February 2009, when analog broadcasts cease and DTV takes over. MovieBeam executives say there is an easy upgrade path to DTV, by connecting to a peripheral tuner, and they have an option to use PBS stations' DTV spectrum through their deal with National Datacast, the for-profit PBS subsidiary that aggregated the analog spectrum.
(...)
It has been suggested that MovieBeam's investors, which include venture-capital firms Mayfield Fund and Norwest Venture Partners, are betting that analog won't shut down on time. MovieBeam and National Datacast executives say that they're planning on the 2009 turnoff date but, right now, analog broadcasting is more reliable as a national platform than the DTV spectrum.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6308573.html

Netflix: cheapest plan $10 per month.

Suppose I don't have time/interest in a given month to watch a movie?

Netflix: $10 for nothing.

Moviebeam: $0 for nothing.

I'm not saying I am typical. Netflix has a demographic ... I think Movielink does too.

Also, Netflix: no possibility of HD movies (for me).

Moviebeam: HD movies.
$200 "investment" to buy their box is 20 months free movies at netflix. netflix rental can be shared with a friend/sibling/etc.

$0 "investment" if you're a "cable/sat" customer gets you "$0 for nothing" if you don't rent.

unfortunately moviebeam has miscalculated and boxed themselves in a bad corner (they'll need to be giving or leasing these away fast).

Now a box that holds 100 movies, up to 10 HD, this I could go for. I can easily see this evolving to a larger number as HD tv penetration increases.


I believe the disk in the unit is 160 gigs, if they preload 100 movies that is 1.6 gigs a movie. Isn't that kinda low for SD movie, dvd quality is better. Not sure how much space an HD movie will take but if 10% or 10 movies are HD then that is significant chuck of the disk, even at 10 gigs a movie. The only way HD works on this box is that the preload movies get wiped out and it only downloads the movies you are interested in which means you probably have to pick your movie well in advance of when you want to watch it.

Has anyone see these in stores ?

I believe the disk in the unit is 160 gigs, if they preload 100 movies that is 1.6 gigs a movie. Isn't that kinda low for SD movie, dvd quality is better. Not sure how much space an HD movie will take but if 10% or 10 movies are HD then that is significant chuck of the disk, even at 10 gigs a movie. The only way HD works on this box is that the preload movies get wiped out and it only downloads the movies you are interested in which means you probably have to pick your movie well in advance of when you want to watch it.

Has anyone see these in stores ?
I didn't see any spec on their web page for HD size. Where did you get 160 gb?

I didn't see any spec on their web page for HD size. Where did you get 160 gb?MovieBeam's own press release:
http://www.moviebeam.com/opencms/opencms/Content/Articles/PressRelease/article_0001.htmlThe MovieBeam player features a 160 GB hard driveRepeated several places:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6308573.html
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/021806moviebeam/
http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=3734
http://www.newsday.com/technology/ny-lead4627486feb15,0,3501971.story?coll=ny-technology-print
etc.

I believe the disk in the unit is 160 gigs, if they preload 100 movies that is 1.6 gigs a movie. Isn't that kinda low for SD movie, dvd quality is better.They're using WMV9 / VC-1 so ... file sizes will be smaller than MPEG2.

They're using WMV9 / VC-1 so ... file sizes will be smaller than MPEG2.

Not familiar with how that codec works is1.6 gigs a movie adequate for SD ? How much space would a HD movie take ?

First-gen boxes will need an add-on to keep working after analog cut-off:


Please note that not all PBS station have signed on for this and even those that have signed on for the analog have not committed to supply bandwidth on the digital. PBS datacast does not have the rights to use the bandwidth of all PBS stations.

I sent a few questions to Moviebeam today. Here is their prompt reply for what it's worth.

__________________________

Thank you for inquiring about MovieBeam. I'm happy to answer your
questions.

The HD Titles are highlighted on our website in the Now Showing Area,
the have a HD icon to the right of each movie.

The main titles that will be transmitted each week are listed in the
Coming Soon section of the website; as for the others they display on
the player along with the new releases coming out that week as well.

Dolby Digital and Surround Sound are available with many MovieBeam
movies. The player is equipped with a digital optical output that
supports Dolby 5.1 audio.

In the setup menu on your player, you'll find a monitor setting that
supports widescreen (16:9) viewing. Many movies are available in
widescreen format, and all feature superior digital quality. You'll
enjoy a DVD-quality viewing experience on all MovieBeam movies, and --
if you have a high-definition (HD) television - up to 10 crystal-clear
HD movies are on the player at any given time.

The MovieBeam Player will work with virtually any television, whether
HD-capable or not. If you have an HD television, you'll be able to enjoy
a selection of up to 10 movies in HD at any given time - as long as you
have the necessary HDMI cable. Like all movies on the player, several of
the HD selections will rotate regularly.

Our return policy is as follows: You may return your player within 14
days after delivery of your order and you'll receive a refund, except
for actual movie viewing charges and a $39.99 re-stocking fee.

Currently the player has installed hardware that will facilitate future
upgrades allowing us to simply update software instead of the actual
player itself. Also, our player will still be compatible when TV
transmissions become all digital!

It's been my pleasure to help you today. Please feel free to contact
Customer Care at 1-866 865-1500 whenever we can lend you a hand.

boy... I think 10 decent HD transfers could fill up at least 130gb... I haven't really checked their website... will they be doing 720P?

I sent a few questions to Moviebeam today. Here is their prompt reply for what it's worth.

__________________________

Thank you for inquiring about MovieBeam. I'm happy to answer your
questions.


Our return policy is as follows: You may return your player within 14
days after delivery of your order and you'll receive a refund, except
for actual movie viewing charges and a $39.99 re-stocking fee.

It's been my pleasure to help you today. Please feel free to contact
Customer Care at 1-866 865-1500 whenever we can lend you a hand.

I wonder if the activitation fee will refund as well, otherwise it is a $65 mistake.

Using advanced codecs the HD bit rate should be under 10 Mbps so at that rate its about 4GB /hour..

Not to keep beeating a dead horse, but let's look at all the things this has going against it, and compare that to NetFlix (which I don't currently subscribe to):

Up front cost: Moviebeam $200-250, Netflix $0. Point Netflix.

Extra hardware + antenna: This may seem silly, but I personally have limited component and HDMI connections, and optical inputs. The antenna if an indoor works fine is not such a problem, but we obviously have to give the nod to Netflix here for extra connections + need for an antenna that could be a problem in some places.

Rental time: Very limited with Moviebeam, unlimitted with NetFlix.

Quality of the video: We are not sure, but a disc would be the same every time (barring scratches), there is potential for loss and problems with OTA. This one remains to be seen, but again, one is a sure thing, the other could be a problem some or all of the time.

Availability of titles: Moviebeam will be limited, whereas Netflix and other rental services basically have everything in and a lot of out of print DVDs. Moviebeam has the potential to have some transfers that are not immediately available to HD-DVD/Blu-ray users. I could see this being a big benefit of Moviebeam if exploited.

Studio limitations on release: This will always be the problem with a backed service. You are going to see content holes whereas NetFlix has no studio ties, so they will have all formats, and all studios.

Ease: Netflix is easy, but Moviebeam has the potential to be even easier, so that is a benefit. My problem with the "joe six pack" comments from this thread is that Moviebeam gears itself at multiple audiences, so joe six pack won't ever get their service. Joe six pack thinks DVDs look good enough is the main problem. He is not going to want to spend $200+ up front to be able to rent movies at a cost higher than Blockbuster, and much higher than Netflix.

I could go on and on, I just can't see this service making it. It amazes me how people continue to get funding and pour money into totally doomed ideas.

Sounds like Divx is back in a box.

Since the Moviebeam is a file it is the same as a disk.. the system corrects for any errors in transmission using Forward Error COrrection and by sending the file multiple times to fill in the gaps..

This is datacasting..

Using advanced codecs the HD bit rate should be under 10 Mbps so at that rate its about 4GB /hour..

I am not perfect at this... but isn't 10 Mbps a little under 4.3GB/hr?... also there will be about 250MB of audio an hour right?... So now we have about 4.5 GB/hr right?... That's still 9 GB for a 2 hour movie. 10 movies would still be 90 GB of the 160 GB total... That's assuming they are using a 10Mbps codec...

So even if there was a total of 70GB left for the other 90 movies (probably more like 60GB though)... that's still a little less than 800MB per 2 hour movie.... I don't know about you, but that sure seems ridiculous to me...

See the quote below about what movies will be available in the "early" window.

But I don't see MovieBeam becoming a runaway success. Except for those early windows, which are applied only to Disney-owned content for the moment, consumers can get pretty much the same thing from cable and other suppliers...and, in most cases, for a whole lot less.

— Jeff Baumgartner, Editor in Chief, CED magazine and xOD Capsule

Not familiar with how that codec works is1.6 gigs a movie adequate for SD ? How much space would a HD movie take ?Using advanced codecs the HD bit rate should be under 10 Mbps so at that rate its about 4GB /hour..Broadcasting & Cable article

The service (MovieBeam) is using Microsoft's Windows Media 9 (also know as VC-1) advanced compression scheme to encode the movies at considerably lower data rates than current MPEG-2 applications, allowing it to send a standard-definition movie as a 1.5-GB file and a high-def movie in 4 GB or 5 GB. That equates to encoding (Edit: average / variable? or max / sustained? hopefully ... average / variable) rates of around 1.7 Mbps for an SD movie and 5.7 Mbps for an HD movie and a transfer time of around two hours and eight hours, respectively.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6308573.html?verticalid=311&industry=Technology&industryid=1030I've heard AVC proponents claim DVD quality for VC-1 at 1.2Mbps. 5.7Mbps for HD seems a little low with early generation HD encoders. But, the HD encoders seem to be evolving / improving every week. 6Mbps is often quoted as doable target for good VC-1 HD so ... we shall see.

Moviebeam send me an email stating that HD movies would be noted on the website (see my earlier post). I looked and could find NO HD movie icon on any current movies showing.

I have asked them to send me a list of both current HD movies as well as wide-screen non HD movies. I'll post if they send me the list.

If it is true that an HD movie could be encoded taking 4 GB of space, then the 10 HD movies would take 40 GB, leaving 120GB, which would allow 1.2 GB per SD movie (assuming there is a separate HD and SD version of the same movie). That seems like a low value to me, but, then, I know nothing about the codec they are using. One would have to assume that a customer that bought their system to view HD movies would certainly know if it was truly HD quality.

The only reason I am interested in this service is for HD movies. If the selection is poor or the quality turns out to not be true HD, then it is clearly not worth the investment. A 160 GB hard drive seems to be a big limiting factor in increasing the amount of HD content, no matter what their marketing people are saying. I can't see how they could have more than 10 HD movies and still leave room for 100 SD movies.

I've heard AVC proponents claim DVD quality for VC-1 at 1.2Mbps. 5.7Mbps for HD seems a little low with early generation HD encoders. But, the HD encoders seem to be evolving / improving every week. 6Mbps is often quoted as doable target for good VC-1 HD so ... we shall see.

The Microsoft encoder for VC-1 shouldn't be considered a "early" generation at this point. MS has been working on it for years and is at a good level of maturity right now. It should also be noted that 720p is only twice the pixel count of DVD, whereas it is four times for 1080.

b2b

The Microsoft encoder for VC-1 shouldn't be considered a "early" generation at this point. MS has been working on it for years and is at a good level of maturity right now. It should also be noted that 720p is only twice the pixel count of DVD, whereas it is four times for 1080.

b2b

Four times for 1080p, correct? not 1080i?

Moviebeam send me an email stating that HD movies would be noted on the website (see my earlier post). I looked and could find NO HD movie icon on any current movies showing.
...
I only went to p. 5. This is what you're looking for:

I only went to p. 5. This is what you're looking for:
Thanks. I didn't go clear up to page 5 which would have been 5 weeks ago, I think. I assumed after looking at the first 40 movies, with none showing HD, that they didn't really have any noted. There is no widescreen notation that I could find.

Anyway, here are the movies currently in HD:

Batman Forever 1995
Cold Mountain 2004
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind 2002
Deep Blue Sea 2002
Sacred Planet 2004
The Perfect Storm 2000

Coming week of 3/12 and will likely replace Perfect Storm which is in the 8th set of 10 movies:

Analyze This 1999

This doesn't look like a very compelling selection to me. Only 6, not 10, HD movies with only one more coming the week of 3/12. And the newest movie being Cold mountain. I've actually seen all those movies except Sacred Planet, a narration film, in either movie theaters or on DVD.

Until they get up to the 10 HD movies promised (hopefully with some more currentthan 2004), and I know how many widescreen movies they have showing, I won't be giving them my $240. As others have stated, this is a reasonable idea, just poorly implemented!

Remember Voom. Though not exclusively HD, that was their focus, and it killed them.

MovieBeam has to try to appeal to a broader audience or it will be as doomed as Voom (voomed?).

I'd like to see them get the qty up to 10 and I'd like them to be movies I want to watch.

And I'd like to start seeing some analyses of bitrates and reviews of picture quality.

I've set a bookmark for Moviebeam, but I won't be an early adopter.

Still, there is no reason to think that if, as so many here have predicted, their weaknesses result in low subscription, that they won't make adjustments to the service. One can hope.

Four times for 1080p, correct? not 1080i?

My bad.

720 x 480 = 345,600 (DVD)
1280 x 720 = 921,600 (720)
1929 x 1080 = 2,073,600 (1080)

Interlaced vs progressive I don't think changes the actual pixel count per frame, but it does affect how many pixels you get per second (ie. 24p vs 30i)

b2b

Until they get up to the 10 HD movies promised (hopefully with some more currentthan 2004), and I know how many widescreen movies they have showing, I won't be giving them my $240. As others have stated, this is a reasonable idea, just poorly implemented!

I don't see anything there that I would pay $5 to see, HD or not.. ;) Retreads of old movies in HD is not what I'm looking for..

b2b

Another bit savings is the fact that movies are 24 frame instead of 30 so that get them about a 20 Percent savings off the top.

I really do question an HD movie of 4GB of being decent quality... I guess if it's 720p it would be doable... I would be really interested to hear any owners opinions of the HD...

I don't know if anyone is going to buy it though... hm...

720P can be fine in 4GB. There won't be wasted space for commentary tracks, alt. languages, etc. i'm sure.

Anyway, here are the movies currently in HD:

Batman Forever 1995
Cold Mountain 2004
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind 2002
Deep Blue Sea 2002
Sacred Planet 2004
The Perfect Storm 2000

Coming week of 3/12 and will likely replace Perfect Storm which is in the 8th set of 10 movies:

Analyze This 1999
Is there any indication which of these are AOR (if any).

I've seen half of those in HD already and these are not compelling (except if we were arguing bluray vs hd-dvd then people would be going gaga over them! LOL)

I've seen half of those in HD already and these are not compelling (except if we were arguing bluray vs hd-dvd then people would be going gaga over them! LOL)
No they wouldn't - the 5th Element isn't one of the titles. ;)

When I saw online I said great I have FIOS this is will be great. Order a box hook it to my TV / Internet router and away I go.

I am in the NYC Metro area and probably with my small roof top antenna I could probably use this service. With a settop box antenna probably not.

I will wait and see if someone offers an online service that is actually online though.

Just started with Block Buster Online and DVDs look decent enough to me. Yes HDTV is better (I have it) but, for now DVD and whatever I get off directv HBO, HD pack, and OTA is fine.

So I took the plunge and hooked up my Moviebeam player last night. I'm a D* subscriber, so I'd figured this is worth a shot to satisfy my VOD desires with movies available at the DVD window. I've got a Fujitsu P50 plasma with DVI support, so I was hoping somehow that I might be able to receive an HD signal with my DVI-HDMI cable. No dice. I'm extremely disappointed with the limited widescreen selection, but this will probably change over time. It is shocking that they would include so may 4x3 movies, for an early adopter product where I would expect the majority of early users to have 16x9 televisions.

So the only hookup that I'm using with the player is the aforementioned DVI-HDMI cable, and my first purchase was Confessions of a Dangerous Mind for $1.99, which supposedly comes in HD. My only available option was to order in SD, but honestly, I was blown away by the quality. This was unquestionably better than DVD, and looked as good as my HD movies from my HR10-250 (seriously). The movie selection was decent, am I pretty psyched about the instant gratification with the early availability of movies. The user interface was pretty slick, and the extras and previews (including Superman Returns) are a nice touch. Eventually, I'd expect to see them come with an earlier pre-DVD release window for a premium price (maybe $9.99 similiar to Morgan Freeman's venture).

Sure, the box was expensive and the company's prospects are questionable at best (at least if this forum is any gauge of potential for mass adoption), but thus far I'm pleasantly surprised (and no, I don't work for Moviebeam).

So I took the plunge and hooked up my Moviebeam player last night. I'm a D* subscriber, so I'd figured this is worth a shot to satisfy my VOD desires with movies available at the DVD window. I've got a Fujitsu P50 plasma with DVI support, so I was hoping somehow that I might be able to receive an HD signal with my DVI-HDMI cable. No dice. I'm extremely disappointed with the limited widescreen selection, but this will probably change over time. It is shocking that they would include so may 4x3 movies, for an early adopter product where I would expect the majority of early users to have 16x9 televisions.

So the only hookup that I'm using with the player is the aforementioned DVI-HDMI cable, and my first purchase was Confessions of a Dangerous Mind for $1.99, which supposedly comes in HD. My only available option was to order in SD, but honestly, I was blown away by the quality. This was unquestionably better than DVD, and looked as good as my HD movies from my HR10-250 (seriously). The movie selection was decent, am I pretty psyched about the instant gratification with the early availability of movies. The user interface was pretty slick, and the extras and previews (including Superman Returns) are a nice touch. Eventually, I'd expect to see them come with an earlier pre-DVD release window for a premium price (maybe $9.99 similiar to Morgan Freeman's venture).

Sure, the box was expensive and the company's prospects are questionable at best (at least if this forum is any gauge of potential for mass adoption), but thus far I'm pleasantly surprised (and no, I don't work for Moviebeam).

Wait, why would you only be given an option to order in SD?

Is your DVI input HDCP compliant?

clarkasaurus: Thanks for the input. Please keep us posted as to what you find and how well it works.

Can you update us on EXACTLY how many widescreen movies there are? So far, Moviebeam support has not seen fit to answer my direct questions on that. My assumption always was that there were very few and you confirmed that.

And please let us know when you actually view an HD movie as to how it looks.

Good luck. I hope you get your $230 worth!

clarkasaurus - Where did you buy your unit from, store front (easy return) or directly from movielink ?

Definitely HDCP compliant. The input on my TV works fine with my HD-TIVO. When I called last night to inquire about this, the appropriate tech support team was gone for the day. I plan to try again today.

Not sure how many movies were in widescreen, I didn't take the time to click on all 100 to find out. But suffice it to say, that no better than 1 in 4 were widescreeen.

I bought the unit online through Moviebeam. Also, there is an non-functional ethernet jack on the back of the unit.

Definitely HDCP compliant. The input on my TV works fine with my HD-TIVO. When I called last night to inquire about this, the appropriate tech support team was gone for the day. I plan to try again today.

Not sure how many movies were in widescreen, I didn't take the time to click on all 100 to find out. But suffice it to say, that no better than 1 in 4 were widescreeen.

I bought the unit online through Moviebeam. Also, there is an non-functional ethernet jack on the back of the unit.
Clark, please update us if/when you get an answer.

Having only DVI myself, I'm very interested in why this didn't work ....

So the only hookup that I'm using with the player is the aforementioned DVI-HDMI cable, and my first purchase was Confessions of a Dangerous Mind for $1.99, which supposedly comes in HD. My only available option was to order in SDSee the following:

https://moviebeam.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/moviebeam.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=336&p_created=1138643198&p_sid=vOU9OV*h&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9OSZwX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9 zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1IRA**&p_li=&p_topview=1

I did finally get an answer from tech support and moviebeam does not and will never support DVI (w/ HDCP) for HD viewing.

I did finally get an answer from tech support and moviebeam does not and will never support DVI (w/ HDCP) for HD viewing.

Is there really a difference between HDCP over a dvi-dvi cable and hdcp over a dvi-hdmi cable ?

I did finally get an answer from tech support and moviebeam does not and will never support DVI (w/ HDCP) for HD viewing.

Well MovieBeam will never see any of my cash money.
All I have is DVI

Umm... wait. That makes no sense. It's the same signal. There's no way it's going to work with HDMI but NOT with DVI if both are HDCP compliant.

An email response from moviebeam:

Thank you for your interest in Moviebeam. We're proud to be leading the video rental business by offering High Definition (HD) movies from the libraries of some of the top Hollywood studios.

In order to view movies in HD, your MovieBeam player must be connected to a High Definition Television with an HDMI input. Additionally, SD movies are up-converted to 720p when connected in this way. At this time, HD content is only viewable when using the HDMI cable, for security and copyright purposes. Though component video cables will give you better picture quality than composite, it will not show the HD content with our player.

Right. But that doesn't answer the DVI/HDMI question.

They may be somewhat missing the boat on the HDMI requirement. Hollywood has shown that, with image constraint, they will allow 940x540 movies to be upscaled to 720p or 1080i over component outputs.

But MovieBeam could offer the same thing except actually only transmit and store a very high quality 960x540 movie that would scale and display in HD resolutions. This would probably almost match the quality of many existing movie transfers as they are currently shown on OTA, cable, or sat. And it would allow 2-3 times more movies in the box along with enabling component outputs. This could be an optional addition to full rez HD movies that needed HDMI or ICT.

In any event this sort of service should likely be marketed as a huge capacity HD Tivo/PVR with this capability, not just another standalone single purpose box.

- Tom

I just recieved an email from them today offering to let me test the box with VOIP.
I had to pay for the box but they waived the activation fee and loosened up the return policy.

I should have the box early next week, among other things I will try to use a HDMI>DVI cable that came with my HDTivo to connect it to my non HDMI Mitsubishi 55813 via DVI.

I just recieved an email from them today offering to let me test the box with VOIP.
I had to pay for the box but they waived the activation fee and loosened up the return policy.

I should have the box early next week, among other things I will try to use a HDMI>DVI cable that came with my HDTivo to connect it to my non HDMI Mitsubishi 55813 via DVI.Did you ask to test VOIP? I get it with free activation.

This is cheaper than D or E PPV and a lot cheaper than CinemaNow HD. Let the price wars begin.

I just recieved an email from them today offering to let me test the box with VOIP.
I had to pay for the box but they waived the activation fee and loosened up the return policy.

I should have the box early next week, among other things I will try to use a HDMI>DVI cable that came with my HDTivo to connect it to my non HDMI Mitsubishi 55813 via DVI.
Hopefully you can report back to us how it works ....

bdraw and clarkasaurus : Most of the movies that Moviebeam labels "HD" have an original aspect ratio of 2.35:1.

I'm eager to know if Moviebeam preserves these in letterbox format. The 2.35:1 movies are The Perfect Storm, Deep Blue Sea, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, Cold Mountain, Iron Giant, and Message in a Bottle .

Did you ask to test VOIP? I get it with free activation.

No, I didn't ask to test. I simply wrote them an email the day they were annonced expressing my concern about the home phone requirment.

My moviebeam showed up today and connected to the service fine via callvantage AT&T VOIP.

It's connected up to my Infocus 4805 via component right now because I'm a little scared of trying the HDMI-DVI connector setup due to cable cost (nothing is connected that way right now even though Infocus says the 4805 is HDCP compliant).

Selecting widescreen as an option still shows SD movies stretched across the screen, I've yet to try a widescreen movie to make sure it actually knows I've selected widescreen mode. You cannot order the HD movies when you have component output selected.

The video compression quality is excellent though, I can't comment on sound yet because I've only got RCA sound hooked up and it's been a long time since I watched anything that way.

The menu system is HD-TiVO slow... not sure if that's a "it's only been on a bit and it's still doing stuff" feature or not.

Graeme.

Mine showed up as well but doesn't seem to work with my Vonage VOIP, I recieve an error 303.
I put in a call to tech support they are supposed to have a tier two person call me back.

I wonder if it is my old Vonage vt1005v box that is causing me grief.
Life would be much easier if they would just activate the ethernet port on the box.

I am connected with a HDMI to DVI adaptor right now but the tv(ws55813) detects 480p, I can't try to fix it since I can't get by the first step of settting up the phone line.

You might have checked but when doing dialup with VOIP you have to use G711( no compression). I think vonage just lists it as 90Kbps

kb7oeb,
Thanks for the tip, I will try to tweek it.

As for the DVI issue, after a long discussion with a very knowledgeable tech at Moviebeam it appears that they don't support DVI.
His understanding was there was some imcompatability with the HDMI chipset(could be firmware) that they were using that doesn't support all HDMI-DVI adaptors, so they officially don't support any of them, but some customers have reported success with adaptors.
He said that they don't have any plans to support DVI, but admits that it could change.
I explained to him that my TV was less than 2 years old and doesn't have a HDMI port.

I will try it myself if I can get the VOIP box working.

Great tip, turning off the compression(aka Bandwidth Saver) fixed the issue and I was able to phone home.

I connected the Moviebeam box with a HDMI to DVI adaptor to my TV and the MovieBeam box doesn't detect it properly and won't allow me to access the HD content. It does allow me to watch widescreen movies at 480p via the DVI port. I assume if I bought a HD movie it would down res it to 480p, but since you couldn't pay me $10 to watch a SD movie we won't find out.

I am using the HDMI to DVI cable that came with my HDTivo which works fine on my HDTivo as well as my H20. I am connecting it to my Mitsubishi ws55813, if I get a chance tomorrow I will try it with my 32" Sharp LCD which also doesn't have a HDMI port.

I have called them and asked them to send me an RMA so I can send the box back since it doesn't work with my TV.

Overall I am very happy with their customer support and the hardware, I just wish they would have considered all those HD lovers without HDMI ports and land lines. I would love to keep the box, but not enough to buy a new TV.

Talk about limiting your customer base

Bingo. Unless/until they come up with DVI support, it's no good for me.

Bdraw - How much of a hassle was it to send back the VOIP test box ? I got the same offer and also have a DVI only display. If the return process is not too much trouble I am willing to give it a shot and see if my display will able to talk to their hdmi controller.

One of the big issues that would irk me about this service is finding that a new release is NOT in HD. For example, Walk the Line is included in upcoming releases, but it is not in HD. With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, you're assured that all new releases will be in HD (and, hopefully, in OAR and DD5.1 as well).

I like to see MB pass muster, the more choices consumers have the better. I just don't see it right now with MB.

Can we say Voom size failure #2 ? I knew you could ;)

Moviebeam review: Worst HD picture quality ever?

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/15/moviebeam-review/

Moviebeam review: Worst HD picture quality ever?

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/15/moviebeam-review/WOW great find.. I was going to try it out but not now after reading that review..

Bdraw - How much of a hassle was it to send back the VOIP test box ? I got the same offer and also have a DVI only display. If the return process is not too much trouble I am willing to give it a shot and see if my display will able to talk to their hdmi controller.

Pretty simple they sent me a shipping label and I dropped it off at fedex.

Ben

Moviebeam review: Worst HD picture quality ever?

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/15/moviebeam-review/

Nice job you beat me in posting my own review. ;)

Thanks.

You can see from the one picture how bad the pixelation was.

I am still in shock.

After reading how easy it was to return I was about to pull the trigger then I saw the post about your review and now I am not even going to bother.

Nice job you beat me in posting my own review. ;)

Thanks.

You can see from the one picture how bad the pixelation was.

I am still in shock.

:o Sorry about that. I read your review and thought that others should know. Thanks for the article.

Matt

Wow, once again AVS Forum has saved me money. I saw the ad for the MovieBeam in this week's "Time" and wondered why I hadn't heard anything about this box. Looked like a legitimate way to get HD movies for an acceptable price (I have DishNetwork and have paid $6.99 for HD-PPV on a few occasions.)

I thought MovieBeam was going to use an IP-multicasting over DSL/cable/broadband, but Dotcast seems to work, just not in my area yet and not for very long after NTSC goes bye-bye. Okay, they will switch over to ATSC delivery, but how much will the new tuner cost and who pays for it?

Then, the final nail (after limited HD offerings, lousy HD PQ, questionable WS offerings, etc.) was the HDMI requirement. Like Ben, I have a two-year-old Mits WS-xxx13 set with HDCP-compliant DVI. My DVR942 has no problem talking to the Mits over the DVI connection. I'm not about to go out and buy a new HDTV just because some company won't write a few lines of code to enable backwards-compatibility.

I'm not going to e-mail them or otherwise provide feedback because I deem them too stoopid to survive. MovieBeam deserves to vanish like the Divx-DVD. Survival of the fittest, baby!

My Moviebeam came yesterday. By the time I got around to hooking it up, it was too late to watch a movie, but I did watch several trailers.

I have to give Moviebeam kudos for their HDMI support..... I was able to hook it up to my receiver with HDMI swiching and it passed the video signal to my TV. While researching receivers with HDMI switching, I came across many people who had problems with their set-top boxes (many Scientific Atlantic and Comcast units) not supporting HDMI repeaters (HDMI switching is a considered a repeater function). Non repeater support kills the convenience of swtiching between multiple HDMI inputs with your receiver.

My receiver shows the HDMI SD upscaling of the Moviebeam is putting out a 720P signal over the HDMI output.

All this HDMI information is objective (unlike PQ which is certainly subjective), but I do feel obligated to say that I was somehow involved with Moviebeam. I am not a Moviebeam employee and I do not take negative Moviebeam comments personally. I agree there should be DVI support for HDCP compliant DVI TVs and I think future software revs may support DVI, but only time will tell for sure.

Matt

My Moviebeam came yesterday. By the time I got around to hooking it up, it was too late to watch a movie, but I did watch several trailers.

I have to give Moviebeam kudos for their HDMI support..... I was able to hook it up to my receiver with HDMI swiching and it passed the video signal to my TV. While researching receivers with HDMI switching, I came across many people who had problems with their set-top boxes (many Scientific Atlantic and Comcast units) not supporting HDMI repeaters (HDMI switching is a considered a repeater function). Non repeater support kills the convenience of swtiching between multiple HDMI inputs with your receiver.

My receiver shows the HDMI SD upscaling of the Moviebeam is putting out a 720P signal over the HDMI output.

All this HDMI information is objective (unlike PQ which is certainly subjective), but I do feel obligated to say that I was somehow involved with Moviebeam. I am not a Moviebeam employee and I do not take negative Moviebeam comments personally. I agree there should be DVI support for HDCP compliant DVI TVs and I think future software revs may support DVI, but only time will tell for sure.

MattSo how is the HD PQ?

So how is the HD PQ?Go back and read the last few posts.

Go back and read the last few posts.Wise guy I did.. I want to know what his imperssion is of the PQ.. :rolleyes:

So how is the HD PQ? I should get a chance to watch a high def movie by the weekend.
I don't expect the pixelation to magically disappear for me, but I will compare it to my two sources of high def (off air from the San Diego Stations, and Direct TV high def package +HBO).

With a 160GB hard drive and 100 movies, the compression has to be cranked up, but the WM9 compression does seem to be doing a good job on the standard def material. The standard def PQ is definitely better than standard def from Direct TV, but certainly not as good as a well produced DVD..... in my opinion.

Matt

I should get a chance to watch a high def movie by the weekend.
I don't expect the pixelation to magically disappear for me, but I will compare it to my two sources of high def (off air from the San Diego Stations, and Direct TV high def package +HBO).

With a 160GB hard drive and 100 movies, the compression has to be cranked up, but the WM9 compression does seem to be doing a good job on the standard def material. The standard def PQ is definitely better than standard def from Direct TV, but certainly not as good as a well produced DVD..... in my opinion.

MattIf they want people to buy this thing they are going to have to improve the PQ IMHO.

If MovieBeam would actually have all the new release movies available when Blockbuster or Hollywood Video has them available for rent, I would buy this thing in a heartbeat even with the sub-par DVD quality video. Two of the new releases MovieBeam has this week that I may want to watch, North Country and Doom, just came out on Dish Network today. There were several occasions this past winter where I dreadfully had to go to Hollywood Video to find a new movie to watch, because I had already seen all the latest PPV's on Dish Network.

I read somewhere that MovieBeam will have movies as they are released from Disney, which I usually have no interest in, but I don't even see Chicken Little listed on MovieBeam yet and it was supposedly released on DVD very recently. Chicken Little isn’t even listed as coming soon on MovieBeam and they have the coming soon titles listed through the week of 4/9/06.

I have minor issues with the other things that have been mentioned in this thread like the HDMI requirement for HDTV movies, but the lack of early releases of new movies is the deal breaker for me. The early release of new movies is what got me all hyped up about this service when I first learned about it in a Best Buy advertisement several weeks ago. What a disappointment!

I watched Deep Blue Sea last night in high def. I have seen it twice before on DVD and like it.

Problems:
I saw two instances on scene changes where the pixelation got very bad for about 1/2 second.
I saw a few scenes were compression artifacts were slightly visible. The red airplane wing in the beginning of the movie looked like it had a few small crawly things on it. There were a few other times where I could see some pixelation, although it didn't happen very often.
One time I saw what looked to be more of a resource problem than a compression problem. Its hard to describe, but it looked a lot like what happens when you are trying to watch an off air ATSC signal and your signal strength isn't enough (screen freezes digitized like for less than a second).

PQ:
Considering the review of the HD PQ, I was expecting much worse. Comparing movies to movies...... I have recorded varying quality of movies off HBO HD. THe Chronicles of Riddick off HBO was georgeous, I Robot good, and Meet the Fockers just OK. The PQ of the Moviebeam was down in the Meet the Focker rating. Certainly not as good as Desperate House Wives off broadcast. Sometimes while watching DHWives I say out loud "would you look at that picture". I get a strange look from my wife when I do that.
There is no doubt that the picture is high def though.

Sound:
To me sound is just important as picture. Deep Blue Sea was in 5.1 (not all appear to be) and sounded great. I did not hear any audible problems (bumps, pops, clicks).

I watch on a 32" LCD 16:9 screen at about 8 feet so I am not going to notice the pixelation as much as somone with a 60" TV at 10 feet.

You could easily spend a few evenings just watching trailers for all the movies on the box and some of the special features or coming attractions. That is one of best features of the box.
The HD indicator LED would be much more sexy blue (its yellow).
I am getting both audio and video through the HDMI cable.

BTW. the MB web page must be a little behind on the movies. Chicken little was listed for April.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the unbiased review... I hope they can get the PQ up... Sound like they have some work to do if they want to succeed.

I just spoke with MovieBeam on the phone and they would not give me a coupon code to use to order online. In that case I'll wait a few months to order MovieBeam if it's still around by then rather then risk being their guinea pig especailly for the $245.

They did address my concern by saying that sometime this year the new release movies would be available on MovieBeam sooner then they currently are now. The person that I spoke to at MovieBeam even went so far as to say that new movies would be available as soon as they are released on DVD from one or more of the movie studios. I was also told that they are hopeful that last major movie studio to sign on, Sony, would be signing on with their service in the very near future.

Stay tuned...

I spoke with a Manager last night at that BestBuy in Mentor, Ohio (about 40 miles east of Cleveland), and he told me that they have not sold one MovieBeam in the three weeks that they've had it available. He doesn't think anyone in the immediate area of the store can even get reception for it. He tried to sell me on it but I want to wait a few months. I would have bought it if I could have taken it home last night instead of getting it dropped shipped from MovieBeam.

Anyways, I played around with the interface and I thought it was pretty cool. The movies on the demo model were from when this particular Best Buy store first got it and it had some movies on it that are listed as "Coming Soon" on the Web site. It looks like they rotate the library of films in and out of the box somewhat frequently so if you miss a good movie that you like it will be back in a few weeks. The MovieBeam software program tells you what movies are about to be erased from your hard drive soon, as some people may or may not know.

I noticed Narnia was available for viewing on Moviebeam Monday night. It beat the official DVD release by one night.
Matt

I just noticed MovieBeam has lowered their price by waiving their activation fee. The total cost for MovieBeam is now $200 delivered plus tax. I would buy it if they would just allow HD Movies to be played over a component video connection without being downconverted.

Is anyone using MovieBeam?

I just noticed MovieBeam has lowered their price by waiving their activation fee. The total cost for MovieBeam is now $200 delivered plus tax. I would buy it if they would just allow HD Movies to be played over a component video connection without being downconverted.

Is anyone using MovieBeam?Even better I just got an email for $99.00 with no activation. Also with a 30 days money back guarantee..

Even better I just got an email for $99.00 with no activation. Also with a 30 days money back guarantee..How long before they're giving them away? 2mos? 6mos untill they're out of business?

Even better I just got an email for $99.00 with no activation. Also with a 30 days money back guarantee..

How do I get this for $99?

Sounds like Divx is back in a box.

Bingo.

Fill out the toe-tag now.

According to the latest review, HDCP enabled DVI inputs will now work with the latest software (automatically updated).

Matt

From
http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=792

"An email from the Moviebeam support crew informing me there was a software upgrade coming within the week that enables full HD features with HDMI-DVI adapters!......I returned home, and there, in full 720p resolution was Moviebeam HD! "

I got MovieBeam for $48 delivered last week and I'm very happy with it. It's not my main source for movies but it compliments my entertainment system very well, and it gives me another source for new movies to watch. I really like the trailers for all the movies it has including the movies that are coming soon to MovieBeam, movies that are currently in theaters, as well as movies that are coming soon to theaters like Superman.

I got MovieBeam for $48 delivered last week and I'm very happy with it. It's not my main source for movies but it compliments my entertainment system very well, and it gives me another source for new movies to watch. I really like the trailers for all the movies it has including the movies that are coming soon to MovieBeam, movies that are currently in theaters, as well as movies that are coming soon to theaters like Superman.


How did you get it for $48? I might just get one at that price.

Sent mine back, movies never seem to be as current as I liked. Also HD very limited.

How did you get it for $48? I might just get one at that price.

I used coupong code "PR49" to get it for $53.11 delivered. They then gave me a $5 credit for some reason.

Does this box allow you to record to DVHS. Anyone try it. Thank you.

Does this box allow you to record to DVHS. Anyone try it. Thank you.

I tried to record a DVD from MovieBeam using my Phillips DVDR 75 Recorder and it said copyright protected.

For $50, I think the deal is worth a try. The PR49 promotional code works fine. I wonder where it came from. Price is $49.99 plus sales tax for about $53 total.

Even if we only watch a widescreen SD movie once in a while, it gives us a choice other than going to the video store. I hope the few HD titles are worth a shot once in a while as well. And I hope the PQ is at least the same as my Panny S77 upconverting DVD player.

Now, I am trying to figure out a cheap way to do the HDMI switching to my projector. Currently have a 2x1 Gefen IR HDMI switch. 4x1 switches are WAY too much money. I did find a 2 x1 HDMI mechanical switch for $39 here: http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=DVIAB%2D1&off=4&sort=prod

Punching one button when we want to use MovieBeam is something the wife and kid should be able to do.

I will post info on PQ etc after I get the Moviebeam.

The picture quality of SD movies from MovieBeam is DVD Quality on my 5 year old Toshiba HDTV using the component video connection. I'm not a videophile though so don't take my word for it!

I investigated a bit more into HDCP capable DVI inputs now working with the latest MB software. It seems 720P is supported via DVI, but not 1080i at this time. I believe there are only a few TVs that won't accept 720p through a DVI input.

With DVI support for the early HD adopters and a $50 price tag, maybe the box will see a little action now.

Matt

I investigated a bit more into HDCP capable DVI inputs now working with the latest MB software. It seems 720P is supported via DVI, but not 1080i at this time. I believe there are only a few TVs that won't accept 720p through a DVI input.

With DVI support for the early HD adopters and a $50 price tag, maybe the box will see a little action now.

Matt

Limiting the DVI to 720p is not a good solution, it forces you to use the MB de-interlacer when a movie was encoded in 1080i.

$49.99 for the box..... my trigger finger is gettin pretty itchy now :D :D
If the hard drive gets hacked, it's a no brainer then!

Just placed an order using the promo code. FedEx tracking number said I will get in on Tuesday. I have already emailed several questions to their tech support department and have received prompt replies.

$49.99 for the box !!!.......................Now they talking

sales must have been very very really really bad to drop the price this fast. Wish I was a fly on the wall in MovieBeam's boardroom that day ;)

My local BB has a moviebeam unit set up as a kiosk. the display was fed with composite video cabling :confused: , so i couldn't look at any HD content.

the kiosk was in a pretty good location in the store, but w/o showcasing the HD content availabilty, they're really missing the mark.

BB is waiving the activation charge, but I didn't see what their purchase was.

The UI is pretty nice.

Well, I have my $49.95 MovieBeam box working and have watched one HD movie (Kill Bill Vol 1 -- a movie I would not recommend unless you want to watch a person die from Uma's sword every 10 seconds or so). The quality was good, not excellent, but I saw no macroblocking at all even on fast scenes. The quality looked about the same as D* HD-Lite, certainly better than SD but not as good as HD should be. I am watching on a 110" screen using a BenQ PE7700 projector. My theater is my basement and I put the antenna in front of a windowwell and get the OTA signal well enough to work with a strength of about 70-75. They are sending me a cable extension (for free) so I can try other places.

The user interface is great and the ability to easily watch preview trailers of the movies is cool.

I have not yet watched an SD movie, but a friend has and he says it is just as good as a normal SD DVD.

Now, my real complaints are:

1. only 6 HD movies and about 34 widescreen SD movies. I would only rent wide screen movies, so that limits my choices to about 40 of the 100 movies. Plus you have to click on each movie to see whether it is widescreen or not and the website doesn't tell you at all. All HD movies are easily noted in their own category.

2. Kill Bill was a 2.35:1 aspect ratio but it was shown as 1.78:1 cropped to fill the screen. I have no idea whether this is the norm or not (maybe they get their copies from the same company that give HBO all their cropped movies!).

3. HD movies all appear to be 5.1 sound, but many (most??) others look like they are only DD 2.0. I will have to check on this.

4. I wish there was a slightly longer viewing period, but, given the movies are instantly available, it is probably not a big deal.

I have emailed MovieBeam with these comments. While they promise a 24 turnaround on a response, they are ignoring my message and points for now.

Still, at 50 bucks, it does provide another choice for HD-lite movies with real ease. Can't complain too much for that price. I'll post again after we watch another movie or two, but that might be a month from now. Pretty busy right now watching season finales and summer is outdoor time!

I just got the following response from MovieBeam on my complaints above:


Sorry about the delay in response. We are investigating the aspect ratio of Kill Bill Vol 1 for the Moviebeam player. Initally, we thought the correct resolution for the title was 1.78:1, this is the resolution of the content that was distributed to us by the studio.

Apon further investigation on-line, we found that you are correct in the DVD and theatrical asect ratio is 2.35:1. At this time we are looking into this issue and will have a soild answer to you here shorty.

As for your quesion about DD5.1, a majority of our widescreen or HD will include the DD5.1 sound the remaining SD titles will normally come with Prologic sound (2.1). This will be indicated by the "5.1" logo on the movie box art and when a customer is on the movie title home page, just prior to selecting to rent a title.

Again very sorry about the delay in response, once we have more information on this issue we will get back to you via email.

Tier II Support
Moviebeam

Pity, for that price I was going to get one but I'm being told it's not available in my area.

while i was critical of them in this thread early on...

at $49 if they got some OAR HD programming going i'd buy in and use the service instead of netflix (and cancel HBO/MAX after sopranos in June).

lets hope they get clue'd in more as this competition is good for consumers.

I set up my moviebeam box and watched Nardia. The picture was dvd quality but no dolby digital. Compared with my upconverting dvd player, it was not as good, but certainly what I would expect from standard dvd picture. I was using component cable at first as I did not have a dvi-hdmi connector ( my tv accepts dvi but moviebeam output hdmi ). After I set up the hdmi/dvi cable the picture looks much better and almost as good as my upconverting dvd player.
At first I used monoprice.com hdmi 5 to 1 hdmi switch and it would not work. It is ok however, either with direct connection between tv to moviebeam or using a manual hdmi switch ( also from monoprice.com). I think the autosensing and equalization circuit of the 5 to 1 switch interfers with the handshake between the tv and the moviebeam box. Overall I believe this is a reasonable product. It provides a convenience other services cannot match. Room for improvement has already been mentioned elsewhere. If moviebeam can provide more HD movies selection, I don't see why it would not compete with HD dvd ( think of how many mvies one can watch with $500 ). I do not have problem with the 24 hours limit, since I always watch any Blockbuster dvd rental right away. If I cannot watch a movie right away why bother to rent it at that moment. Plus I don't watch the same movie more than once within a short period of time. So all the negatives mentioned previously do not apply here. BTW, I got mine free , but even at $50 I think it deserves a chance.

There is a review of Moviebeam by David Pogue in the NY Times on line today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/technology/01pogue.html?ex=1149912000&en=298de0b4dc041dd3&ei=5070&emc=eta1

The only problem is he comments negatively about the movies being widescreen! They are the only movies we watch. Also, at the normal $200 entry price, I would never have signed up. $50 is a good entry point and I hope the coupon code still works.

We have now watched a few normal SD widescreen movies. The quality is OK, not great, and certainly not as good as my upconverting DVD player. We miss the 5.1 sound more the the quality. Nevertheless, the convenience and ease of use is great. We're glad we have it.

Re HD Moviebeam in Pogue's NYT piece, this stuck in my mind yesterday:
MovieBeam could also play an important role in the new era of high-definition movies — once it gets its act together....At the moment, though, MovieBeam is muffing its opportunity here. The graphics and menus look spectacular, but the clarity and detail of the movies themselves fall far short of what you think of as high-def. (When Nicole Kidman's skin looks grainy, you know something's off.) The company blames, not altogether convincingly, the HD transfers from the original film, and promises better-looking HD movies in the coming months.
--John

I took a look at the site and the schedule. The price seams very high for what you get. For my personal needs all I care about is HD content and it needs to be different then what Im getting from Dish and cable. Im hearing most HD content is not OAR :( and Im disappointed in the lack of HD content. Very few movies are HD. The SD schedule is large with some good titles. I would also hope you could plop the movies you are paying for on a hard drive for you own personal use but I also do not think they make this possible.
As nice as this service sounds I think it needs to mature but another company may come along with the right wow factor before these guys get their act together. Hey, someone has to be first so I give them credit for being one of the first out of the gate.

"I used coupong code "PR49" to get it for $53.11 delivered. They then gave me a $5 credit for some reason."

I tried using "PR49" at the Moviebeam ordering site and it didn't work. Did an internet search and came up with "PR49B". This one worked!

--croorc

got the moviebeam for $52 shipped. I ordered Kill Bill in HD to test the box out. the picture was awsome, but no 5.1 sound. I have a voip (sunrocket) phone in my house and it's work fine with moviebeam.

I also got the 49.00 price. Ive had Moviebeam for a few weeks and I love it. It worked with my vonage phone as well.
Ive only watched one HD movie Kill Bill 2, and the picture was terrific. I will report back with other Hd movies, but so far I am impressed.

I've watched one movie so far, Good Night and Good Luck, and I am also impressed. It wasn't high def, but the picture quality was excellent (although this was a black and white picture).

Does anyone know how to find the MovieBeam model number? I am trying to set up my Harmony Remote to interface with the MovieBeam, but I need to get the Model Numer. I tried calling MovieBeam support but they claim that there is no model number for the MovieBeam device. The Harmony Website lists about 5 model numbers.

--orccro

I just watched Glory Road in HD on Moviebeam. Looked very good and the sound was good although I had to turn up the volume a bit.

I am happy to have this alternative to going to the video store for movies. I just wish that they would get more HD movies. SD widescreen movies are OK, but not as good as my upconverting Panny S77.

Again, for $50, the box is well worth the entry price. I would not be here if I had to pay $200. I hope the discount continues to be available for other people.

There is a review of Moviebeam by David Pogue in the NY Times on line today. The link given brought me to a on-line registration for the New York Times web site.

I think this http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=b-769a7023:10bb060c1e2:-26f1&st=1150222436984&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fr=061306_015203_w769a7023x10bce69caf7xw572&rdm=924159.2926596258

will give direct access.... for now at least but you might have to click on the Moviebeam link from the reviews.

Another review and more of a tour of the MB.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/moviebeam-reviewed-verdict-aok-from-zatz-178063.php

Matt

I watched Glory Road last week and I am happy with the picture. I live in Southern California with good weather but the convenience factor for this product is outstanding. People who live in cold and wet places should give it a try. The worst that can happen is that one lose $50. Think about the HD/Blueray dvd upstart cost ( $600 + dvd cost ) and this product makes sense.

Does it output 480p in component mode? Are all widescreen films in 480p?

Does the box offer a working firewire like our cablebox to allow you to record the movies you are paying for to a DVHS or hard drive?

Does the box offer a working firewire like our cablebox to allow you to record the movies you are paying for to a DVHS or hard drive?
No.

Does it output 480p in component mode? Are all widescreen films in 480p?

I think component only outputs at 480i. If you use the hdmi output , it will upconvert sd signals to 720p. The upconverted picture is not bad. And hd signals stay at 720p.

I think component only outputs at 480i. If you use the hdmi output , it will upconvert sd signals to 720p. The upconverted picture is not bad. And hd signals stay at 720p.

My bad, sorry. It does 480p in component. From the user guide...(I like how HDMI is considered 'better' than component :) )

It is important to set this switch to correctly correspond to your video connection to ensure proper video image quality. Following is a list of possible connections in order from most basic to highest quality:

• Composite Cables (yellow, red, white) — switch output to 480i
• S-Video Cable — switch output to 480i
• Component Video Cable (red, green, blue) — switch output to 480p
• HDMI Cable — setting inconsequential

Does anyone know how to find the MovieBeam model number? I am trying to set up my Harmony Remote to interface with the MovieBeam, but I need to get the Model Numer. I tried calling MovieBeam support but they claim that there is no model number for the MovieBeam device. The Harmony Website lists about 5 model numbers.

--orccro
I'm assuming you've found it by now, but it's MB-2160.

Here is my review on my blog: http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=766 and http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=792

Best,
Jeremy

We watched Annapolis in HD last night and the PQ was very good. Better than DVD upconverted by a bit. Original movie was 1.85:1 so they showed it correctly. 5.1 sound was fine.

Thanks jtoeman. No I had not found the model number. Just curious, where did you find it?

--croorc

Here's another code to try: BBELITE. Pop that sucker in and the box is free -- no shipping, no costs at all. Plus you end up with a $5 credit.

For that price, I pulled the trigger. I very carefully read the user agreement -- there is no commitment whatsoever in terms of rental purchases, and the equipment is not leased. I figure the hard drive is worth pulling if I absolutely hate the service. :)

Current movies listed in HD: Analyze This, Annapolis, Bubble, Eight Below, Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room, Glory Road. Hmm. Not incredibly impressive, but we shall see.

The service sounds just about right with a free moviebeam box.

As a practical matter, I still won't be able to get this service. Why don't they finally drop the outdated requirement for a landline telephone?

Here's another code to try: BBELITE. Pop that sucker in and the box is free -- no shipping, no costs at all. Plus you end up with a $5 credit.

For that price, I pulled the trigger. I very carefully read the user agreement -- there is no commitment whatsoever in terms of rental purchases, and the equipment is not leased. I figure the hard drive is worth pulling if I absolutely hate the service. :)

Current movies listed in HD: Analyze This, Annapolis, Bubble, Eight Below, Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room, Glory Road. Hmm. Not incredibly impressive, but we shall see.

I ordered on the 4th and have yet to get any kind of shipment notication. cheer - did you get any ?

I ordered on the 4th and have yet to get any kind of shipment notication. cheer - did you get any ?
I ordered on 7/2 using the above mentioned "free" code (thanks to another forum), received tracking info on 7/5 and it is scheduled for delivery today.

I tried the BBELITE code, and they only subtracted $50 off the price...Is there another code that I should try to get it for free? Also, I have vonage phone service with a 5.8ghz phone system (4 handsets in different rooms). The Moviebeam box would not be in the same room as the router (will be in HT room in basement), so how do I hook up the MB box to the RJ11 jack when there is no phone service there?

I ordered on the 4th and have yet to get any kind of shipment notication. cheer - did you get any ?
Box arrived today. Haven't hooked it up yet (work, alas) but will tonight.

I tried the BBELITE code, and they only subtracted $50 off the price...Is there another code that I should try to get it for free?
No idea -- I guess that one doesn't fly anymore.
Also, I have vonage phone service with a 5.8ghz phone system (4 handsets in different rooms). The Moviebeam box would not be in the same room as the router (will be in HT room in basement), so how do I hook up the MB box to the RJ11 jack when there is no phone service there?
You have to somehow run a phone line. Not sure what else to tell you.

For those wondering in if you can use an existing roof top antenna, I have good news, I think.

I have 2 older antennas in my attic. I ran a cable from the back of the unit to one of them, and was able to get an 82 signal. Using their antenna, I was getting at best 22.

The only hesitation I have in reporting a thumbs up, is that this antenna doesn't service the rest of the house. I use a silver sensor antenna for our OTA HD. Don't know if the moviebeam box puts out a voltage that might harm other equipment if you hook it up to a wire run that services other devices, so be careful if you try to hook up to your existing antenna.

I had to get the unit shipped to a UPS store in a town closer to Chicago, but am getting the steady 82 singal strength now, about 50 miles away. I didn't qualify using my real address, and even called them to see if they could check since I live in the middle of nowhere, in a small town they might not have listed. Had to give it a try, since I was able to get the unit for free using the BBELITE code. Glad I gave it a try!

This was posted on a local forum, I thought it might be of interest.

Terry, can you explain the technical aspects of how PBS stations distribute MovieBeam?

Sure. KAET is carrying MovieBeam on the analog channel only. A low level QAM modulation of the analog video carrier can carry about 2Mb/s. Because of the randomization and shuffling of the data, the data only appears as a low level noise, which is invisable to most viewers.

The digital MovieBeam is straightforward private data into the DTV stream. About 2 Mb/s would be allocated to carry IP encapsulated Windows Media 9 or MPEG4 AVC video (I am not sure which).

Terry

I recently received moviebeam and overall really like the system. However, I'm having problems. Specifically, I can't seem to get movies to play in widescreen. I don't know if its when I watch a preview of a movie and I tell it to play fullscreen - it gets locked. I've tried several times to switch to widescreen (via advanced settings). I've powercycled several times. So far, I've watched one movie in widescreen (Firewall), which I was sure not to watch the preview in full screen before renting. I've got it hooked up using composite video cables to a 27" Philips tube television (old school). I've spoken with Tech Support (awesome support) and they're contacting the developers to see what the issue maybe. Additionally, when I did watch Firewall in widescreen - the aspect ratio still seemed off - the black bars did not seem big enough - as the people seem too slender. Has anybody else seen or heard of this issue?

For those wondering in if you can use an existing roof top antenna, I have good news, I think.

I have 2 older antennas in my attic. I ran a cable from the back of the unit to one of them, and was able to get an 82 signal. Using their antenna, I was getting at best 22.

The only hesitation I have in reporting a thumbs up, is that this antenna doesn't service the rest of the house. I use a silver sensor antenna for our OTA HD. Don't know if the moviebeam box puts out a voltage that might harm other equipment if you hook it up to a wire run that services other devices, so be careful if you try to hook up to your existing antenna.

I had to get the unit shipped to a UPS store in a town closer to Chicago, but am getting the steady 82 singal strength now, about 50 miles away. I didn't qualify using my real address, and even called them to see if they could check since I live in the middle of nowhere, in a small town they might not have listed. Had to give it a try, since I was able to get the unit for free using the BBELITE code. Glad I gave it a try!
The moviebeam box does put out a voltage, but you could still use your rooftop/OTA antenna using a DC block (an inexpensive < $2 part you can get at your local radio shack). Rooftop antennas will definitely help your reception!

I just watched my first Moviebeam. It was SD on a Sammy 6187 DLP. The pic came right through in a 16 x 9 format, and the quality was not quite as good as my older Panasonic progressive DVD player. It had good colors, but was a bit soft. It was better than some SD, and not as good as some really good SD. There are only 4 HDTV titles avail. I will look forward to a chance try a HD movie. (BTW, I have 94-95 signal strength from SF.) My take is that it is handy to have 100 movies sitting in your house waiting for the right mood. Since the machine cost $50 plus HD option, and there is no monthly charge, it seems to work.

moviebeam lost me as a possible customer last week with the purchase of my HD-DVD player.

even if the box were free it's not worth the hassle

no chance i want to watch HD-lite, especially at a rather costly price (vs netflix).

no chance i want to watch HD-lite, especially at a rather costly price (vs netflix).

Does Netflix carry HD-DVD's?

Does Netflix carry HD-DVD's?
Yep. But saying that Moviebeam (a PPV-style service) is costly compared to Netflix (an all-you-can-eat-style service) is silly. What if I only rent one Moviebeam title a month? That's cheaper than Netflix.

It's an apples-and-oranges thing.

Actually,

I own Moviebeam and subscribe to Netflix. They compliment each very well. Moviebeam is great for the spur of the moment movie choice.

Yep. But saying that Moviebeam (a PPV-style service) is costly compared to Netflix (an all-you-can-eat-style service) is silly. What if I only rent one Moviebeam title a month? That's cheaper than Netflix.
Ahem.

First movie beam's web offer is $99 to get you in the door.

Now obviously it's cheaper if you "rent 0-1 movies a MONTH.

Netflix's cheapeast plan is $5.99 giving 2 HD rentals a month
http://www.netflix.com/HowItWorks?lnkctr=nmhhiw
click HOW MUCH DO THE PLANS COST on the right

OTOH HD-Lite cost $4.99 per rental which will add up fast (if they even had any variety of HD movies but lets play along and pretend they have alot of OAR HD content).

Ahem.

First movie beam's web offer is $99 to get you in the door.
For you perhaps. Didn't cost me a dime with the BBELITE code, and in fact I have a $5 credit.Now obviously it's cheaper if you "rent 0-1 movies a MONTH.

Netflix's cheapeast plan is $5.99 giving 2 HD rentals a month
http://www.netflix.com/HowItWorks?lnkctr=nmhhiw
click HOW MUCH DO THE PLANS COST on the right

OTOH HD-Lite cost $4.99 per rental which will add up fast (if they even had any variety of HD movies but lets play along and pretend they have alot of OAR HD content).
I don't dispute that. But some folks rent erratically and a monthly plan may not make sense to them. Some just aren't into monthly bills. And some don't want to wait for the mail. I myself ultimately switched from Netflix to Blockbuster's in-store plan -- even though it costs more -- because when we were suddenly in the mood for a movie we didn't want to wait. So I could see this appealing as well.

Like I said. Apples and Oranges.

BUMP

any moviebeam folks still out there? getting better, worse, same?

BUMP

any moviebeam folks still out there? getting better, worse, same?

I didn't use either of my MovieBeams that much until I got a TV with a HDMI connection. Now I watch a couple of hi-def movies that I can't get as HD-DVD's a month.

The service is still the same even though they keep promising future upgrades. They don't say what these upgrades are though. I still like MovieBeam though in that it compliments my other choices of what I have to watch on TV very well.

Ditto on watching a HD movie every month or so. We do watch a few widescreen SD movies as well, but the picture quality isn't all that good. It IS very convenient and we are glad we have it, especially since we only paid $50 for the box.

has the selection of HD movies increased?

do you see moviebeam as ever putting up a challenge to netflix (and the like), or the cable or satellite on-demand models?

No. there are about 6 HD movies at any time with a changeout of 2 to 3 per month. Most movies are now widescreen however. All HD movies are 5.1, but many of the SD movies are still just two channel dolby. Challenges to Netflix, etc. is only that about 100 movies are available instantly to be viewed. No effort involved at all.

Basically, the service hasn't changed at all since I signed up. The restriction on HD is the 160GB hard drive.

If the HD content is not OAR then its not for me. Not at that price. One pansy ass, goody goody two shoes broadcast ( no names but we know who I am talking about ) company is enough.

Still an interesting concept that most likely will hold a place in the future.

FOr HD movies, how does the PQ of MovieBeam compare with that from DirecTV for HBO-HD and Showtime-HD. Is MovieBeam's HD PQ like DirecTV's HD-Lite? Anyone know what the true resolution and bitrate are?

The HD and widescreen movies are OAR. Maybe not all, but the ones we have seen were correct.

The HD quality is very much like D* HD-lite. Good, but not great as in HD-DVD, which I don't have. Certainly watchable. I am using this on a 110" screen. People do notice the lower quality of the SD movies, but generally our viewers have been fine with the HD movies. There just aren't very many of them. The SD movies, however, are not nearly as good as my Panny S77 in doing the upconvert.

How is the service doing financially? I know at my local Best Buy, they have the demo setup somewhere in a corner.

I can't see them lasting very much longer, what with Comcast OnDemand and its cable ilk.

Have you ever seen a Comcast HD OnDemand offering? It looks even better than broadcast.

How is the service doing financially? I know at my local Best Buy, they have the demo setup somewhere in a corner.

I know they've scaled back on personnel quite a bit. I had to call about 5-6 times for an issue with the billing and setup of my 2nd MovieBeam recently, and I only talked to two different reps on those 5-6 random calls. It got to the point where one of the operators knew me by name just by hearing my voice. Personally I think this service will last a while because it doesn't take much overhead to run and it's backed by big companies like Disney and Intel.

Once again it's worth noting that MovieBeam is a "good compliment" to your entertainment system and it should not be counted on as your main source of movies if you watch a lot of movies. It works especially good if you don't want any subscription TV service at all like cable or satellite, but you want access to Pay Per Views and you don't like driving to the movie store. I really like the fact that I can watch some Hi-Def movies that are not on HD-DVD, and I can see previews of current movies on Pay Per View and previews of movies coming out. I would seriously consider sh!t-canning Time Warner now that they've taken over for Comcast if I wasn't such a Hi-Def junkie, and just have MovieBeam, my HD-DVD player and OTA Hi-Def locals. I now get less HDTV with Time Warner and my bill went up 20% after the Comcast buyout but that's another story.

It's also worth noting that you don't have to use their antennae. I use my own from my roof because I'm quite a ways away from their source of the signal that the movies are downloaded through. The antennae that came with MovieBeam is good for an indoor antennae but it wasn't quite good enough for me. Also, the regular SD movies look the same to me as regular DVD's on my new Panasonic rear projection LCD TV using an HDMI connection.

Looks like MovieBeam may be collapsing.

I just received an email that service will end Feb 1st, 2007 in Riverside. Since I'm pretty sure that I'm using an LA tower to receive service that may mean the entire LA area is going away. It may not have been perfect, but it was good enough for me.

Sean

Looks like MovieBeam may be collapsing.

I just received an email that service will end Feb 1st, 2007 in Riverside. Since I'm pretty sure that I'm using an LA tower to receive service that may mean the entire LA area is going away. It may not have been perfect, but it was good enough for me.

Sean

Eh, it was an intriguing concept. However, their insistance that I get a landline telephone instead of offering an ethernet connection pretty much killed the deal for me. There's no way I need to spend $20+ per month on stripped down telephone service, local and state taxes and FCC universal service fund "reimbursement". It would make far more sense to plus up my Netflix account by $20 per month instead.

Overall, promising concept, but lousy execution.

Looks like MovieBeam may be collapsing.

I just received an email that service will end Feb 1st, 2007 in Riverside. Since I'm pretty sure that I'm using an LA tower to receive service that may mean the entire LA area is going away. It may not have been perfect, but it was good enough for me.

Sean
can anyone else confirm that MovieBeam is dead in the LA area? I'd give it a whirl with their 30-day risk free trial, also does anyone have the service in the San Fernando Valley? According to their website the service is unavailable in my area, but i get good reception of KCET analog OTA, so i'd think of ordering it to a different address to try it out

My sister lives in Highland (near San Bernardino). They were getting their moviebeam signal from a PBS repeater. They got a letter stating that Moviebeam was discontinuing service there due to overhead costs.

Don't know if that also applies to the transmissions of KCET from Mt. Wilson.

Goodbye Moviebeam. It was nice while it lasted.

I recently bought a HD-DVD player (Toshiba A2) and I have that hooked up to my single HMDI port on my TV. Guess which component had to go?

I got Moviebeam because I wanted to see HD movies on my TV, but unfortunately, the HD pickings were minuscule. In fact, after having Movie beam for a year, there was only one HD movie that I really wanted to see and ended up paying to watch (Enron, the Smartest Guys in the Room). Yes, Moviebeam came in handy at times when friends or family wanted to see a movie immediately, rather than waiting the three or four days for Netflix delivery. But to pay for such convenience rather than waiting for the Netflix delivery just wasn't usually worth it, especially given the limited selection of all movies (HD and SD) available on Moviebeam. Now that I have the HD-DVD player and now that Netflix carries HD-DVD movies, there is no reason to continue with Moviebeam. If only they had switched to the long-rumored internet-based movie selection system. I will not throw out my Moviebeam in the hope that eventually they will get the internet model going. But in the meantime--bye bye Moviebeam!

Yeah, but "The Prestige" just came out on MovieBeam this week in Hi-def and you can't get that on HD-DVD; only Blu-Ray.

From Jeff Baumgartner, xOD Capsule Editor, and CED Editor-in-Chief
Movie Gallery is the latest to jump in and see if it can make MovieBeam fly. In addition to using MovieBeam's existing over-the-air datacasting platform, Movie Gallery said also plans to deliver content to the proprietary set-top via the Internet as well, taking advantage of the fact that the latest iteration of the MovieBeam device also has Ethernet and USB 2.0 ports on-board.

With internet delivery this might be interesting. Hopefully they will offer HD content

From Jeff Baumgartner, xOD Capsule Editor, and CED Editor-in-Chief


With internet delivery this might be interesting. Hopefully they will offer HD content

Here is the article:

http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6424299.html?text=moviebeam

Yeah, but "The Prestige" just came out on MovieBeam this week in Hi-def and you can't get that on HD-DVD; only Blu-Ray.Eh. It's also available on Comcast HD OnDemand too you know.

Eh. It's also available on Comcast HD OnDemand too you know.

Sure, but it wasn't on Comcast 3 weeks ago when I was anxious to watch it. ;) Once in a blue moon MovieBeam comes through with a movie release that coincides with the DVD release date, and "The Prestige" happen to be one of those movies. This was a big selling point when MovieBeam first came out but it never really fulfilled its promise. I'm too impatient sometimes to wait weeks for a movie to be on Pay Per View after it's DVD release date during the long cold winters we have here in Northern Ohio.

From Jeff Baumgartner, xOD Capsule Editor, and CED Editor-in-Chief


With internet delivery this might be interesting. Hopefully they will offer HD content
This is something they should have done from day 1. With a good pipe, they could stream 1/2 a movie during low demand times to be cued up for instant play, and stream the rest upon purchase while you start watching. That would allow better quality even with the smaller drive, yet still get that "instant viewing" aspect.