Just got my 710e from Jason today. Thanks..Jason...very very fast.

Alan and Darin are talking in very interesting topic.
Alan...Please explain more to support your idea.
Thanks..........

The size and type of screen determine how the brightness and contrast will be set on the projector.

On this particular display there is really one best setting for contrast. This is independent of screen material, screen size, lighting, etc... Once set you can change all of the variables above and this would not change.

The same thing would be true for the brightness control in a dark room. Lights on and you would adjust, but this setting would not change if you changed any of the other variables mentioned above.

I have the 700 and have switched screen material and screen sizes and those settings did not change.

Alan and Darin are talking in very interesting topic.
Alan...Please explain more to support your idea.Stacey just did a very good job of it, but if people want we can move this to the display forum and discuss this in more detail (like exceptions where somebody may choose to adjust away from that contrast setting even with a negative side effect, for instance).

--Darin

Stacey,

What about calibrating to provide screen brightness of 12 ftL for film programs and higher lumens for HD and SD video programs?

Chris,

Your response is debatable, but suited more for the display calibration section.

I just want to point out that it may be the case that you are thinking about this from a CRT perspective. That may be why you are disagreeing with myself and others here about this. I can understand that, but we're not dealing with a CRT here, so aligning these settings is a bit different. There's no realy "correct" setting on a CRT and this can change with the screensize and things like that subjectively, but with a digital display as discussed here, you can think of there being a "correct" setting, that is less subjective.

When you start reaching the point where you aren't limited by an on/off CR range, then your point may have some merit, but it's not the case here yet. This kind of "legacy thinking" isn't wrong, it's just misplaced.

Please discuss more...

I'm always belive that once I change dvd player, sacler, screen size/gain then I have to re-calibrate my projector.

I put a thread on the calibration forum here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7470367&&#post7470367

--Darin

Stacey,

What about calibrating to provide screen brightness of 12 ftL for film programs and higher lumens for HD and SD video programs?

You would never want to achieve that by altering settings on the display. If the display is too bright, you'd use an ND filter. Lowering white level to achieve this kills your contrast range. Again, this is CRT-thinking which may be the obstacle here. Doing this kind of thing like setting white level with a meter is fine in many cases with a CRT, but is not appropriate for a digital.

(this may change in the future if digitals reach much much higher on/off CR ranges, for instance this would be appropriate on something like the Brightside HDR)

Chris,

You're right about my legacy. I started with CRT front projection and once I got the instrumentation that allowed me to measure off the screen, I've never done it any other way. This is worth the learning to continue, I just think we should take it to the calibration section. These topical threads just get overloaded with side issues too much and become burdensome to follow for folks interested in the original topic.

Chris,

You're right about my legacy. I started with CRT front projection and once I got the instrumentation that allowed me to measure off the screen, I've never done it any other way. This is worth the learning to continue, I just think we should take it to the calibration section. These topical threads just get overloaded with side issues too much and become burdensome to follow for folks interested in the original topic.

Yeah. As a CRTer myself, I see this crop up a lot with folks who have been in this a long time, and miscommunication between the newer guys (who are right) and the older guys (who are also right). Everyone's right, just in different ways. In the past, I've seen this become slightly contentious. The right answer depends on the specifics, and here in this situation, Stacey summed it up pretty well. There is, basically a fixed 'correct' setting unless you have ambient light or your room is filled with discoballs or something. With a CRT, you'd be right.

Anyway, Darin is over in the calibration forum having a thread with himself about this ;)

What about calibrating to provide screen brightness of 12 ftL for film programs and higher lumens for HD and SD video programs?

This is where a user adjustable IRIS would come in handy. :)

With my method you cannot acheive dead on 12 fl. Joe Kane calibrates this display the same way I do. You use a ramp that extends to 254 and you adjust until the point it clips and then reduce until you have the smoothest gradiant. This is why he chooses the Grayhawk RS for the 6' and the Studiotek 130 for the 8'. He uses the screen to bring the light output into check.

However, what you are left in terms of light output is what you get.

I use the Deep XX Ramp on AVIA Pro. There are points were you can see faint steps in the ramp and then it snaps into places with a smooth ramp.

On the flip, per RP167, you adjust the direct view CRT until you hit 30 fl. Studios are in fact doing this with 30" and 24" BVMs. The truth is the 30" blooms long before 30 fl yet they still calibrate to 30 fl. I think it actually blooms around 24 fl.

I should qualify my comments on brightness. I am assuming DVI input using video levels. Analog inputs will be based on each source.

As far a NDF, I would not use one myself. The projector will start of brighter and dim over time. I think a new builb starts off around 14 fl calibrated on a 6' GH RS. When my first bulb went out, I was below 8 fl.

You use a ramp that extends to 254 and you adjust until the point it clips and then reduce until you have the smoothest gradiant.

Interesting, if I interepret this correctly stacey, you end up with a some slight headroom in the available display range above 254? Is this just a couple clicks, or is it significant?

(I interpreted the "reduce" as reducing the white level rather than going the other direction of lowering the 'white point' max value or however you'd describe that.)

Chris,

It is really just a few clicks down on the contrast control. This does lower the CR and output level.

When I get a new bulb I can show you what I am looking for.

There's no realy "correct" setting on a CRT

There are standards for direct view CRTs in studio use. (SMPTE RP167)

Chris,

It is really just a few clicks down on the contrast control. This does lower the CR and output level.

Ok, just wanted to make sure I interpreted that right.

Let me throw something else out there. :) My comments only apply to the 700, 710 and 800.

I don't adjust brightness until the BTB stripe on a PLUGE is gone. At the point the BTB is gone is the same point the dither is gone. That was meant to be one clip up and it is exactly one click. The dither returns and you can just barely make out the BTB stipe.

One click up and you have BTB and dither. Once click down you have neither.

This is the way Joe has done all of his demos and intends for it to be setup.

Chris does bring up a good point. The digital displays require a different calibration. On the CRT you want to turn contrast up to the point below blooming and also achieve teh 30 fl or 12 fl depending on venue. For digitals, the higher the contrast, the high the CR. However, you want to stop below the point of clipping and you want the smoothest gradient.

Sorry, this post was rushed, must catch my vanpool. :)

There are standards for direct view CRTs in studio use. (SMPTE RP167)

Of course, which George seemed to be referencing as well in some sense. I was getting at the fact that there really isn't the clear black and white points at the display in a physical sense that there are with (most) digitals.

That's difficult to describe, because there's always some fuzziness in reality, and you can't go willy-nilly with CRTs either. The difference is that with CRT's you're aligning more to what you're seeing subjectively (or what an instrument is seeing), rather than physical points in a digital display that are found more objectively than subjectively. Neither is completely one way, and I certainly wouldn't want to mis-characterize setting up a CRT as just subjective. But as we all know the approaches are different.

Anyway, definitely on the same page.

addition: a way I think is useful to describe the difference for people is that with a CRT you are examining by eye or by instrument what appears black, or white. On a digital, you are examining where the display's black and white are. You can't find that on a CRT because concrete points like that don't exist, but you can find where it appears so.

Chris,

You are being kind. I allowed my brain to stray from the context of this thread, that of a digital DLP display. This is essential stuff to keep straight. Thanks for clarifying this issue.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

GeorgeAB,
Don't get me wrong--I think it's great that you are standing firm on your principles regarding the value of calibration. I have certainly learned a great deal from you and others (in this thread and elsewhere) in my several years of lurking on this forum. I am here precisely because I know where to find expertise I simply don't have in this arena. This forum used to be full of similar people, folks who had a passion for excellence.
This is the only comment you made that made me bristle a bit. Just because someone doesn't comprehend SMPTE standards or doesn't fully buy your argument about the merits of calibration doesn't imply that they are necessarily less passionate about excellence. This is a public forum, and not a Ph.D. program where applicants are screened at the door. Why some disparage the value of something simply because they can't afford it is a mystery to me.
Agreed! This projector should delight anyone, calibrated or not. My point was, why not get the most performance out of it that's possible?

The simple answer is that for some, this is a matter of ignorance (with respect to the value of calibration). For others (like me, at the moment) it's a simple question of the opportunity cost being too high. I do hope that eventually, I'll be able to justify the cost to get the most out of this great projector.

kktx,

I'm sorry that you took personal offense to some of my comments. They were more general observations and didn't apply to you specifically. A wider audience reads these threads than the posters and I was referring to a troubling shift I've perceived in the overall tone of the forum. There are actually some who insist that the display calibration craft is an organized campaign to defraud consumers.

It's not intellect that is at issue but motivation. I'm by no means as knowledgeable or apt as many who contribute here. This is the best home entertainment technology forum of the bunch, in my estimation. It dissappoints me when contributors are apparantly motivated by some other intent than to teach or learn. I can't control that, but I can attempt to discourage it when I see the opportunity.

I'll admit that my zeal can cloud my judgement at times. My advocacy of imaging science and display standards springs primarily from the fact that such information has greatly enhanced my ability to enjoy movies more. I derive satisfaction from helping others with the same interest achieve similiar benefits. There can be times when my clumsy enthusiasm is off-putting. I'll endeavor to use more wisdom.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advaincing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Hi guys, don't mean to divert the flow of this thread but I got a small Q on calibration. Some have reported that this PJ is almost dead on right out of the box which factored in my decision to buy it. If I want to tune it further is the AVIA disk the right product to use or do I need to buy something else? I understand that professional ISF calibration will cost several hundred bucks and I am little hesitant to go this way. Short of ISF what are my options?

Screen is 58x104 (119 diag) Da-lite High Power 2.8 gain. PJ mounted on back wall 18' throw and 6' above floor. Oppo DVD player. Factor in that this is my first PJ so I am pretty green but willing to tinker with the thing.

Thank you,

John

using the HDMI (DVI) input, does this projector enable correct scaling of a non-anamorp enhanced letterbox or 4:3 material?

I personally think that Avia is a very good way to "calibrate" TVs/front projection. In fact, I had my RPTV professionally calibrated, and he calibrated some of the system by eye (he used equipment for greyscale). I redid the TV using Avia and thought the result looked better. One problem I have, though, is that Avia calibrates using one input. Using calibration for that input means that my HDTV is too dark, and I've had to readjust only that input.

One problem I have, though, is that Avia calibrates using one input. Using calibration for that input means that my HDTV is too dark, and I've had to readjust only that input.

You mean the DVD/Display PQ is not the same as the Cablebox/Display PQ?

Hi guys, don't mean to divert the flow of this thread but I got a small Q on calibration. Some have reported that this PJ is almost dead on right out of the box which factored in my decision to buy it. If I want to tune it further is the AVIA disk the right product to use or do I need to buy something else? I understand that professional ISF calibration will cost several hundred bucks and I am little hesitant to go this way. Short of ISF what are my options?John,

I have stayed out of the calibrate/don't calibrate discussion so far, but I think it's time to weigh in.

The calibration procedure for the Samsung projector is quite different from most consumer projectors. Part of what is involved is to measure each primary color (using the internal color fields) and white to obtain x-y coordinates and luminance for each, and then insert the results into the service menu. The firmware will then use these measurements to correct it's internal lookup tables to calculate multiple gamma curves, perfect primary colors (for SMPTE-C, EBU, and HDTV), and four different gray scales. This cannot be done correctly without an accurate photocolorimeter taking measurements off of the screen.

It is an amazing projector right out of the box, but those wanting the most out of this product should have a calibration performed that includes the above procedure.


Ken Whitcomb

using the HDMI (DVI) input, does this projector enable correct scaling of a non-anamorp enhanced letterbox or 4:3 material?Unfortunately, no. I suspect this additional scaling would have increased the price significantly.


Ken Whitcomb

This cannot be done correctly without an accurate photocolorimeter taking measurements off of the screen.

Ken Whitcomb

Where do I rent a photocolorimeter and the step-by-step procedure to do this? Or is this something that only a professional can do? And how is this different from ISF calibration?

Sorry for not following you but I am trying to understand what exactly you recommend I should do. (Right now I am thinking that I need to buy the AVIA disk.)

Thanks,

John

The difference is that with CRT's you're aligning more to what you're seeing subjectively (or what an instrument is seeing), rather than physical points in a digital display that are found more objectively than subjectively.

I agree with that.

Some have reported that this PJ is almost dead on right out of the box which factored in my decision to buy it.

To add to what Ken has said, it is calibrated at the factory using a Photoresearch PR650. The calibration is based on a Studiotek 130 screen. If this is what you are using, then you are very close out of the box. There are two lamp modes and I believe only one is calibrated to the above. I don't know which one it is.

It is best to wait at least 50 hours before having the display calibrated. This ages the bulb a bit. If you are using a 6' wide GH RS screen, then run in low lamp (theater mode) the first 300 hours. At that point you may need to switch to high lamp and have it re-calibrated. That should hold out until the bulb goes or you change screens. I can't advice on other screen materials or sizes since I don't have the experience.

Where do I rent a photocolorimeter and the step-by-step procedure to do this? Or is this something that only a professional can do? And how is this different from ISF calibration?

Sorry for not following you but I am trying to understand what exactly you recommend I should do. (Right now I am thinking that I need to buy the AVIA disk.)John,

Joe Kane Productions has offered product-specific training to calibrators who own the correct equipment. It would probably cost you more to rent one of the $12K colorimeters than to pay one of these specialists.

Getting a test disk like Avia or Digital Video Essentials* would be a good start, then save your money for a calibration.


*used in the development of the projector


Ken Whitcomb

Does anyone know what type of calibration equipment Gregg Lowen uses for calibration? ( I suppose I should write and ask him.. duh) he comes to my town once or twice a year with his traveling calibration circus........ :-)

GeorgeAB,

Just wanted to say that I actually didn't take your remarks personally at all, and I've really appreciated your feedback in this thread. In fact, I think there is an excellent dialogue here about the various options available to those interested in getting the best out of this projector. I will start with DVE, and pull out my old copy of Avia, as well.

BTW, my Samsung is now on the way and the framing of the dedicated theater will begin next week. It will be a long painful wait for completion!

If you are using a 6' wide GH RS screen, then run in low lamp (theater mode) the first 300 hours. At that point you may need to switch to high lamp and have it re-calibrated. That should hold out until the bulb goes or you change screens. I can't advice on other screen materials or sizes since I don't have the experience.

I am not using a Studiotek130 or a 6' wide GH RS screen. I am using a 8.5' wide Da-lite Hight Power 2.8 gain screen. (I want my lumens!)

What's wrong with the AVIA disk guys? Are the results considerably INFERIOR to the professional calibration you are advocating?

Sounds like between a $30 disk and the $500-$1000 professional calibration service there is nothing else. Is this correct?

John
PS: Ken, too bad you are not in LA

What's wrong with the AVIA disk guys? Are the results considerably INFERIOR to the professional calibration you are advocating?

Sounds like between a $30 disk and the $500-$1000 professional calibration service there is nothing else. Is this correct?John,

I'm not sure what you missed in my response to your previous post. There is nothing wrong with using a test disk to set your consumer controls. However, without instrumentation that's all you can do.

PS: Ken, too bad you are not in LAThat's OK, just contact Dave Abrams (precisiontheater@aol.com)


Ken Whitcomb

one question if Ken could answer ;)

how good are the spyder setups for projectors ?

since I am a photographer and use gretag stuff for my puters and to me thats critical where home theater stuff is fun and would like to do it myself just cause I like stuff like this
are they worth getting ? and also it sounds like they dont measure off the screen but off the light coming in ? do you know ?
and more important with the 710 the way its done by a pro ? will the spyder be any good ? since I wont be able to put in the measurements properly ?

thanks in adv to anyone who can answer this

one question if Ken could answer ;)

how good are the spyder setups for projectors ?

since I am a photographer and use gretag stuff for my puters and to me thats critical where home theater stuff is fun and would like to do it myself just cause I like stuff like this
are they worth getting ? and also it sounds like they dont measure off the screen but off the light coming in ? do you know ?
and more important with the 710 the way its done by a pro ? will the spyder be any good ? since I wont be able to put in the measurements properly ?
Honu,

Unfortunately, the Spyder is not appropriate. See my previous post here: Post #211 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7374301&&#post7374301)


Ken Whitcomb

thanks ;)

I guess here is my thoughts on calibration ;) and I do want to get it done someday but would like to do it myself so I can keep it up as the bulb ages etc... and its kinda fun :)
so guess I will have to wait or pass for a while

I don't adjust brightness until the BTB stripe on a PLUGE is gone. At the point the BTB is gone is the same point the dither is gone. That was meant to be one clip up and it is exactly one click. The dither returns and you can just barely make out the BTB stipe.

This is the way Joe has done all of his demos and intends for it to be setup.
:)

Stacy,

If I understand your post, Joe is setting the Brightness one click above the setting where dither disappears. Is that correct?

I find that interesting. I don't usually calibrate digital displays that way, but set Black to black. I use the Offset controls (which are finer than the Brightness control) so that they are set to the point where dither just disappears.

Which way is better has something to do with personal taste, and a lot to do with the displays gamma implementation. Because Black is too grey in digital displays, I find my way is better in most displays as it achieves the darkest Black and eliminates (or reduces) clipping.

I appreciate the info. I'll make sure I assess that when I do a Samy. Thanks.

Glenn

one quick thought to those who think that calibrating has to be done ! from the other side of the fence

I am not saying that it has no value as I am sure it does being a photographer for a living I understand color and profiling a system etc...

but at the same time there are lots of people out there with cameras :) and I bet not all of them go to the extremes of the best glass and a profiled system and use a pro lab etc... heck for the money I have in photo gear I could get one extreme HT setup
once nice arch type digital camera can run over $50k with back and lens etc...

just like buying a new Canon 5D and keeping the basic lens they come with on it ?
nice point shoot lens but its not a nice chunk of L glass
but I dont think that takes away from the user enjoying what they have and the pics they look at from it and chances are the 85 1.8 for about $400 will be just as nice for them as the new 85 1.2 II lens at $1800 yet I would shoot with the 85 1.2 and say why bother with the other one once you see the small details the 1.2 can bring out you will want it !!!!!

now I have a canon SD500 I use for fun stuff family etc.. yet I dont take out a 1DSMKII with L glass to the zoo to take shots of my kids ;)

I guess there are some of us that just want to enjoy the PJ as best we can without spending more and might rather take that $300-$500 and buy a bunch of movies as we would enjoy that more than a touch better color ?

just some thoughts ;) and again I am not saying that I dont want to get it done properly as I am sure I will some day but there are balances to everything

also since it seems as we replace bulbs and bulbs age they will change output so we would need to keep calibrating to keep it on top ? or am I wrong on this ??? I dont know but it seems color would change just like monitors age

I can see the budget going up and up and if I were rich this would be a non issue

I also know in photography many photographers calibrate there system weekly or monthly or every big job just to make sure they are on top of things

I guess that is why I just use the Avia disc for now ? and thought a spyder might be fun to play with and see if I can get a touch better pic out of it and as a hobby keep up on my PJ :)


maybe I should start a new career as a calibrator ;) hehehehehe

and again I have no doubt it will help to get it calibrated ;)

I received my projector last night and spent some time experimenting with the Accupel signal generator and AVIA Pro. Unfortunately, I got too anxious to watch some movie favorites, so I just had time to set brightness and contrast and experiment with Gamma (as an aside, I use Stacey's method of setting brightness by dropping it by one click until dither disappears).

My initial impressions would be consistent with Jason's review. I was immediately taken by the impressive color and shadow detail that created the most 3D image I've seen short of a $10,000+ projector (which makes sense based on the pedigree of this projector).

If you are trying to decide if this projector is for you, I would suggest going to Jason's review and pulling up his screen shots for the Samsung and the Optoma HD7100 and looking at them side by side. Take special notice of the small details like the blood vessels in the eye ball, the pupils of the eye, the texture and colors of the hair, the wide spectrum of colors in the flesh tones, the degree of shadow detail in the backgrounds. These are the differences that create a realistic depth to the image with greater resolution (meaning you can see more details) than other projectors. These screen shots are consistent with the differences I saw as I viewed DVDs I've seen a hundred times before. New details jumped out, the image was more 3D and the resolution seemed greater than a source resolution of just 480p (can't wait to hook this up to the HD-DVD player that will arrive next week).

I would also agree that while black levels are not on par with the Optoma, the accuracy of the gray scale at low luminance levels creates a perception of inky blacks and a high contrast ratio.

I did see a banding problem using the AVIA Pro XX ramps (the pattern goes from video black to video white in smooth increments), but I was able to resolve it using adjustments on my Denon 2910 DVD player. Comparing test patterns using the Accupel leads me to think that anyone having banding issues with this projector should look first at their source device rather than the projector.

For people who appreciate image accuracy over artificial bravado, this is an incredibly satisfying projector.

I can't wait to calibrate gray scale to extract the last bit of color detail on this baby.

Because Black is too grey in digital displays, I find my way is better in most displays as it achieves the darkest Black and eliminates (or reduces) clipping.

You have that backwards with regards to clipping. Stacey's method preserves a little bit below 16 the way he describes it, ensuring that pretty much everything there is reasonably maintained.

I do agree that it can be a taste thing, because dithering on an all-16 black frame or area in an image may bother some people, for instance.

I did see a banding problem using the AVIA Pro XX ramps (the pattern goes from video black to video white in smooth increments), but I was able to resolve it using adjustments on my Denon 2910 DVD player. Comparing test patterns using the Accupel leads me to think that anyone having banding issues with this projector should look first at their source device rather than the projector.


Reading these threads over the past couple days I noticed reports of the Oppo player and the Denon 2910 player showing some macroblocking effects with this PJ. This has been attributed to thier Faroudja processing.

The HiDef players should alleviate this. Good report, keep us posted.

John

The Denon 5910 CI has no such faroudja processing yet I noticed the blocking artifacts right away, it would be interesting if Kevin could tell us exactly what he changed in player that allowed him to resolve the blocking artifacts, I really liked everything else about this projector except those artifacts, so either I wait for the optoma hd81 1080p or purchase the benq 8720 which I hear is a great projector in the brightness and contrast categories and throws a real nice image as well.

I really liked everything else about this projector except those artifacts, so either I wait for the optoma hd81 1080p or purchase the benq 8720 which I hear is a great projector in the brightness and contrast categories and throws a real nice image as well.

This is a strange issue in that it is not yet 100% conclusive that it is the source that's causing it. If it was the Faroudja chip then you shouldn't see this with your player. People have been going back and forth blaming the source then the PJ and so on. I would like to think it's the player and hope that the new HD players should take care of this problem. If not ... well I don't want to think about that. :(

The other solution is obviously to spend a lot more more money as you are suggesting.

Agreed, the 8720 is another 2K more than AVS is selling the 710 for, I don't consider that in the same catagory...

My 710 should be here in the next day or so and I have a brand new Oppo I will try out on it as soon as it arrives.

Agreed, the 8720 is another 2K more than AVS is selling the 710 for, I don't consider that in the same catagory...

My 710 should be here in the next day or so and I have a brand new Oppo I will try out on it as soon as it arrives.

My 710 just arrived this evening and I already have the Oppo. Problem is the Dalite HP screen will take another week.

It looks like the sammy crowd is multiplying ...

This review of the IN76 claims Samsung DLP have up to a half a second lag. Has anyone noticed this?

"DLP HDTVs have become a little unpopular for gaming in recent months as more and more users are discovering that in some cases (Samsung DLPs especially) the internal circuitry of the unit leads to lag of up to half-a-second between a controller button press and when the action shows up on screen. The phenomena is scaling lag and takes place when a non-native resolution must be scaled to fit the screen, like a PS2's 480i signal being processed up to 720p. Sometimes even native resolutions are lagged by excessive image processing designed to make DVDs look good, rather than games. "

taken from http://gear.ign.com/articles/701/701496p1.html

The Link was posted in the "projectors for trailer park folks forum."

I assume the gaming review was referring to lag time in Samsung DLP rear projection TVs, and not the DLP front projector. Perhaps the projector is different--anyone check this out yet?

^^^I've only seen this happen (lag that is) when people have all the different "picture enhancements" turned on. Black level enhancement, edge enhancement, and all the stuff that's part of Samsung's "DNIe" package. Most of the people on this board turn all this stuff off so that they can enjoy the more accurate picture. But lots of people turn all this stuff on because the manual says it will make the picture better!

I've never seen just the straight scaling introduce any noticable lag. Just turn off all the artificial enhancements and the lag should go away!

Jon

This review of the IN76 claims Samsung DLP have up to a half a second lag. Has anyone noticed this?

The lag is caused by the Genesis (Sage (Faroudja)) deinterlacing used inside. If you bypass and send native 720p then you are good to go. This is true for most video processing.

If you want to play games, you have but one choice, the ABT102. It works great for game playback. :)

...Finally, the absolutely smooth appearance of the image and the integrity of the colors made this my favorite of all the projectors we saw (and they were in the $10,000 to $40,000 price range)....Comments like that, as well as from the other highly credible sources on this thread, certainly get my attention :)

My two cents is that if you want a projector that produces “artificially-sweetened” eye-candy that explodes off the screen with blown-out, bluish whites, and over saturated colors, this is not the projector for you. If, however, you want the most accurate image available in this price range, this is the only way to go.Kevin and Ken great reviews of the 710. I have had one for 3 weeks now and love it. And coming from a Optoma I fully agree on the cartoon image that Kevin is talking about. I am using a small gray screen and colors and are so dead on it is breath taking. Black level is the best of any projector I have had to date. So, just a reality check here please. Are you guys saying that the H710AE is a noticable step up from the Optoma H7x in terms of overall "viewing pleasure" ? Is this true even when the H7x has been properly calibrated ? It would seem that unless the H7x cannot be calibrated properly (primaries on the colour wheel are just plain wrong, not enough resolution for good tracking, or whatever) or something else is messed up in the Optoma implementation, then the H7x should have every advantage - dark segments for improved shadow detail, DC3 with higher inherent contrast & less SDE, etc.

Please don't take these questions the wrong way. I really hope the H710AE is as great as everyone says. But I am also worried that there might be a little of the "reality distortion field" effect (a la Steve Jobs) coming from JKP. I remember there was a lot of hype on the H7x when it first came out. But now the H7x seems to be relegated to the also ran category...

Brent

Brent,

When I get my replacment bulb, you are welcome to come over and see the 700. This way you can make your own decision. It will probably have to wait until after I return from NAB.

Sounds good Stacey. It would be good to get a feel for the blackness (greyness ?) of the bars on 2.35 material as well as SDE since these artifacts are continuously present (and an area where the DC3 supposedly holds a definite advantage over the HD2+).

At least the Samsung bulbs run about $100 less than for the H79 and they appear to be in stock :)

Brent

Brent..........

Let me get this straight.... are you saying Mac's Do Not Rule???

On this particular display there is really one best setting for contrast. This is independent of screen material, screen size, lighting, etc... Once set you can change all of the variables above and this would not change.

The same thing would be true for the brightness control in a dark room. Lights on and you would adjust, but this setting would not change if you changed any of the other variables mentioned above.

I have the 700 and have switched screen material and screen sizes and those settings did not change.
Stacey,

If what you say is in fact the case, then how does one determine that "correct" brightness and contrast settings? Are those settings the same for every Samsung 700/710? If yes, why would Samsung not dial in correct settings at the factory prior to shipping? Or are they doing just that?

Thanks.

HiHoStevo -

Well, I will say that while Macs outnumber PC's 4:1 in my house (and I didn't pay for the PC, work did) the transition to Intel kind of reminded me of when I first found out there wasn't a tooth fairy ....

But, to get this a bit more on topic I am picking up a vibe here that the Samsung series has been produced by people with a passion for "getting it right". So, perhaps that is the more fitting analogy to make with Apple.

Brent

I assume the gaming review was referring to lag time in Samsung DLP rear projection TVs, and not the DLP front projector. Perhaps the projector is different--anyone check this out yet?

360 is fine.

Dale

Are you guys saying that the H710AE is a noticable step up from the Optoma H7x in terms of overall "viewing pleasure" ? Is this true even when the H7x has been properly calibrated ? It would seem that unless the H7x cannot be calibrated properly (primaries on the colour wheel are just plain wrong, not enough resolution for good tracking, or whatever) or something else is messed up in the Optoma implementation, then the H7x should have every advantage - dark segments for improved shadow detail, DC3 with higher inherent contrast & less SDE, etc.Brent
Just my observations having calibrated both the H78 and H79. The primaries on the Optoma are not as accurate (this is discussed in some detail in the H79 thread). Red is substantially oversaturated and green (if I recall correctly) has the usual DLP lime appearance (a shift towards yellow). A lot of people like the look of oversaturated red (by the way, almost every projector in the below $10,000 range has inaccurate primaries).

Attached is a CIE chart from an Optoma H77 (couldn't find one for the H79), but it will illustrate my point. Note that in this CIE chart, green is shifted towards yellow, blue is shifted towards green, and red is shifted towards blue. As a result, the primaries of the H77 define a color space that less than the SMPTE_C standard. In other words, every color that falls outside the triangle delineated by the white line cannot be reproduced by the H77. It also means that the spectrum of colors is more limited than required by the SMPTE_C standard, so you are losing color detail (resolution) in the image. What happens if the primaries fall outside the SMPTE_C standard triangle? Then the projector produces colors that are not found in the SMPTE_C standard (e.g., artificial colors).

The benefit of the H710AE is that its primaries fall very close to the applicable color space standard (SMPTE_C, HD, or EBU). Furthermore, the primaries can be calibrated to bring them within the applicable standard (very few projectors can do this).

Some other points. A shift in the primaries technically requires a corresponding shift in the D65 calibration point. The H710AE has a more linear gray scale, especially at low luminance levels. And, personally, I like the gamma curve of the Samsung as it produces excellent shadow detail.

In summary, I think the the Optoma Hxx projectors are great display devices (if money was no object, I would buy their new H81 1080p projector in a heart beat). Some people may actually prefer their look (they certainly have vibrant colors and great black levels), but they do not have the color fidelity of the Samsung. Is the Samsung a better projector? That is a matter of personal preference and how one defines "better." Is the Samsung a more accurate projector? I think the answer is an unequivocal "yes."

Greetings,
I have had the 710 now for about 10 days. I have been enjoying it off the wall, with no screen. My question is about screen selection. I ordered screen samples from Carada. The samples are small and this makes selection difficult for me. I was trying to pick between CCW and BW. I was interested in the added punch of the 1.4 CCW, as this material is supposed to closley resemble the Studiotek 130 JKP suggests using with this projector. When I had the BW sample up on my wall, I really seemed to loose the nice black levels this projector has to offer. The CCW 1.0 looked much better to my eyes. Can anyone else share their experience with this selection process. My room is a media room, and I have control of the light to about 85/90%. I do alot of football with friends and I'm just not sure about a bunch of guys watching football in total darkness.

Just my observations having calibrated both the H78 and H79. The primaries on the Optoma are not as accurate (this is discussed in some detail in the H79 thread). Red is substantially oversaturated and green (if I recall correctly) has the usual DLP lime appearance (a shift towards yellow). A lot of people like the look of oversaturated red (by the way, almost every projector in the below $10,000 range has inaccurate primaries).

Attached is a CIE chart from an Optoma H77 (couldn't find one for the H79), but it will illustrate my point. Note that in this CIE chart, green is shifted towards yellow, blue is shifted towards green, and red is shifted towards blue. As a result, the primaries of the H77 define a color space that less than the SMPTE_C standard. In other words, every color that falls outside the triangle delineated by the white line cannot be reproduced by the H77. It also means that the spectrum of colors is more limited than required by the SMPTE_C standard, so you are losing color detail (resolution) in the image. What happens if the primaries fall outside the SMPTE_C standard triangle? Then the projector produces colors that are not found in the SMPTE_C standard (e.g., artificial colors).

The benefit of the H710AE is that its primaries fall very close to the applicable color space standard (SMPTE_C, HD, or EBU). Furthermore, the primaries can be calibrated to bring them within the applicable standard (very few projectors can do this).

Some other points. A shift in the primaries technically requires a corresponding shift in the D65 calibration point. The H710AE has a more linear gray scale, especially at low luminance levels. And, personally, I like the gamma curve of the Samsung as it produces excellent shadow detail.

In summary, I think the the Optoma Hxx projectors are great display devices (if money was no object, I would buy their new H81 1080p projector in a heart beat). Some people may actually prefer their look (they certainly have vibrant colors and great black levels), but they do not have the color fidelity of the Samsung. Is the Samsung a better projector? That is a matter of personal preference and how one defines "better." Is the Samsung a more accurate projector? I think the answer is an unequivocal "yes."

But what about shadow detail and dithering compared to the Optoma Hxx's ??

Fleaman

This review of the IN76 claims Samsung DLP have up to a half a second lag. Has anyone noticed this?

"DLP HDTVs have become a little unpopular for gaming in recent months as more and more users are discovering that in some cases (Samsung DLPs especially) the internal circuitry of the unit leads to lag of up to half-a-second between a controller button press and when the action shows up on screen. The phenomena is scaling lag and takes place when a non-native resolution must be scaled to fit the screen, like a PS2's 480i signal being processed up to 720p. Sometimes even native resolutions are lagged by excessive image processing designed to make DVDs look good, rather than games. "

taken from http://gear.ign.com/articles/701/701496p1.html

The Link was posted in the "projectors for trailer park folks forum."

Half a second :eek:

That cannot be correct. If so, this would show up in regular movie viewing as 1/2 a second can easily be seen, making dialog out of sync with lips on the screen...

Maybe a few milliseconds latency perhaps?

Fleaman

I am buying the 710 and the Lumagen Vision HDPro from AVS and canceled the benq 8720 and had cash left over. This will last me 1.5 to 2 years then get the 1080p 3 chipper :D :D

For the life of me, I couldn't remember:

what scaler/deinterlacing solution does the 710AE use and how does it handle 1080i input?

Jon

Just got the PJ yesterday - one day after ordering from AVS through Jason - wow that was fast! :)

After narrowing down to the HD72, IN76, and HD7100, and H710AE - went with the Samsung. Tested several DVD's last night - here are my impressions for a range of DVD material:

Lion King - great colors, fabulous clarity. the kids were in awe.
North by Northwest - looked the best that I've ever seen it, very smooth and film-like.
Narnia - looked really good but seemed a little dark overall (I noticed this viewing it on my Pioneer CRT RPTV as well - so could be the DVD transfer?)
Stagecoach - classic B/W film, great movie with a not so great transfer, didn't expect much with this one but was pleasantly surprised -better than I thought it would be.

No HD sources yet so I can't comment.

All viewing was done with default settings projecting 100'' diagonal image on unfinished drywall (still building HT in basement). It can only get better with proper setup and screen. Presently using a Sony NC85H player with component output.

A little background - I've been shopping for an HT display for several months and was initially looking at 60-70" RPTV and plasmas. Of course HD sources look fabulous on these, but whenever I'd view DVD, I'd think - hmm, seems like my 10-yr old 51" Pioneer CRT looks better - why spend all this money and then feel like I'd rather go upstairs to watch my DVD collection - talk about buyer's remorse :( . Then I viewed a Yamaha 510LPX PJ and thought - this would definitely be a step up. Started researching PJ alternatives, and finally decided on the Samsung. I'm quite happy at this point and can't wait to finish the HT to fully appreciate this PJ.

Stagecoach - classic B/W film, great movie with a not so great transfer, didn't expect much with this one but was pleasantly surprised -better than I thought it would be.
Next time you watch a B/W movie, switch the Picture Mode to "Movie2." This setting uses the 5500K color temp (versus the normal 6500K), which is the correct standard for black and white movies.

This is a really nice feature to have. Usually, you have to calibrate a seperate memory setting to 5500K for black and white movies, but now you can just switch picture mode.

I watched the restored Casa Blanca in this setting and with the neutral gray scale of the Samsung, it makes B/W movies an exciting, visual experience.

Next time you watch a B/W movie, switch the Picture Mode to "Movie2." This setting uses the 5500K color temp (versus the normal 6500K), which is the correct standard for black and white movies.

Will try it next time - thanks for the info.

Next time you watch a B/W movie, switch the Picture Mode to "Movie2." This setting uses the 5500K color temp (versus the normal 6500K), which is the correct standard for black and white movies.



Great tip, Kevin.

Well I just set up my Samsung H710AE today.
The picture is amazing and a huge step up from the Panasonic AE700 I owned before this. I'm very impressed - far more than I expected I would be.
I can finally say that I'm satisfied with the level of black I'm seeing. It was something that always bothered me about the Panny. I can also finally see that 3d effect I hear people talking about - the depth and detail of the image are incredible (for me at least with my limited experience). I'm not technical though so I wont try to go into detail about things I don't much about.

I do however have one concern. I think I have some sort of power cable problem. It connects very loosely to my projector. After putting my projector into standby for the first time after a few hours of use, I noticed that the standby light was gone by the time I returned to the projector again. The main switch in the back was still set to "on" but the projector was no longer receiving power - even though I hadn't physically touched it since my last use. After messing around with all the power cables again I was able to get it going but I'm worried that this will keep happening.

Have any of you experienced a problem like this? Is there something I can do to make the power cord fit more snuggly into the back?

The Samsung has the standard IEC connector used by essentially all computers, monitors, printers, etc. Try different cords until you find one with a snug fit. One trick is to put a few wraps of black electrical tape around the C13 female connector so that it fits more tightly when connected to the C14 chassis plug.

I noticed on mine you have to push in the power cable with a touch more pressure than most
then it kinda seats itself for the last half of going on
look wise and feel wise at first it looks like its in but push a bit more firmly and see if it sets in ? its almost like its slightly recessed ? if that makes sense to you
once in all the way its quite solid though

Hi guys,

I am trying to find out if I am the only one with a noise problem with this PJ. I started another thread here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=666999
and have measured 57 dB of noise on the right side of the PJ (away from the front exhaust). The Radioshack meter was in C-weighting and was held 1 inch away from the case.

Can one of the new H710 owners put the RS SPL meter next to this PJ while its running and report back the decibel reading?

Thanks,

John

Thank you both for your help and advice!
I'll try out your suggestions.

Hi guys,

I am trying to find out if I am the only one with a noise problem with this PJ. I started another thread here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=666999
and have measured 57 dB of noise on the right side of the PJ (away from the front exhaust). The Radioshack meter was in C-weighting and was held 1 inch away from the case.

Can one of the new H710 owners put the RS SPL meter next to this PJ while its running and report back the decibel reading?

Thanks,

John

why in the world would you hold it 1" from the case? Shouldn't you be taking the measurement at the listening position?

Further, at only 57dBC at an incredibly close 1" this sounds like a quiet projector to me...just thinking aloud here, no flame intended.

You mean people don't buy power cords that are several hundreds of dollars plus (extends to thousands of dollars) for front projectors? After all, they supposedly do "wonders" for audio equipment. I personally know people who will espouse the use of $800 power cords for audio equipment. Me, I'm not so convinced, though I do have a few of the "cheaper" power cords. Perhaps when I buy the Samsung, I'll try a power cord (preferably as "blind" of a test as I can create) and see what happens.

why in the world would you hold it 1" from the case? Shouldn't you be taking the measurement at the listening position?

Further, at only 57dBC at an incredibly close 1" this sounds like a quiet projector to me...just thinking aloud here, no flame intended.

I know what you mean and I agree with you to some extent. But if I held the meter at the listening position how can I produce a measurement that can be compared to your measurement? Your listening position from your PJ is probably different from mine. The easiest and best "reference" measurement for both of us to make is putting the sound meter right on the PJ.

I know what you mean and I agree with you to some extent. But if I held the meter at the listening position how can I produce a measurement that can be compared to your measurement? Your listening position from your PJ is probably different from mine. The easiest and best "reference" measurement for both of us to make is putting the sound meter right on the PJ.

if you want to be realistic about it, I'd suggest measuring your distance from pj to seating area and provide that dBSPL C-weighted measurement. Then have others follow the same distance.

At 1" away, you can get wild variations. The thing I'm getting at is your measurement at only 1" away is pretty quiet. I'm wondering if you're ceiling mounted and have reflective surfaces next to the pj which would reflect noise to your location? If so, you may want to add some sound treatment with either diffusors or absorption material?

if you want to be realistic about it, I'd suggest measuring your distance from pj to seating area and provide that dBSPL C-weighted measurement. Then have others follow the same distance.

At 1" away, you can get wild variations. The thing I'm getting at is your measurement at only 1" away is pretty quiet. I'm wondering if you're ceiling mounted and have reflective surfaces next to the pj which would reflect noise to your location? If so, you may want to add some sound treatment with either diffusors or absorption material?

I don't think a measurement like this is possible with the Radio Shack meter. I think you'd have to buy an extemely sensitive meter to measure the fan noise at the seating position.

The analog meter only goes to 60dB +/- 10. It simply isn't sensitive enough to take a reading from a listening position more than about 1 foot away, unless the fan noise is extremely high.

makes sense. I use a sensitive on at work so I was not aware of the high scale unit he's using.

I just received my 710 from AVS today. My first impression was that this is a formidable piece of equipment--significantly bigger than I expected, but with an extremely classy look. Even though we'll be dropping this down from a 9'4" ceiling to the top of our screen at 7', I won't mind this projector being visible. (i.e., WAF=excellent).

I did plug it in to make sure it wasn't DOA and did a bit of viewing. Very nice, intuitive menus with lots of easy to navigate options. Also some integrated test patterns with a JKP stamp so that you can do some basic setup without even using a test DVD. Should come in handy later (e.g., during mounting).

I won't bother trying to present a review, because I only projected it on an off-white wall in our living room at mid-afternoon. The room has six windows that top out at nearly 18', so it's really bright during the day. So much so that our 36" Sony XBR400 becomes hard to watch at that time of day. Despite this, I was surprised to see that even in theater mode there was an (almost) watchable image. My toddler girls even watched Toy Story 2 beyond their usual attention span for a while (TAF, toddler acceptance factor is almost as important as WAF in our house, so that was good).

It's back in the box waiting for HT construction to begin this week. It will be an agonizing wait, indeed.

Attached is a CIE chart from the gamut test using AVIA Pro and a Denon 2910 DVD player connected via DVI. If you compare this to the CIE chart I attached previously, you will see how it is significantly more accurate.

I want to rerun this test using the internal test patterns and the gamut test from the Accupel.

I have never calibrated any display device that had such accurate primaries.

The analog meter only goes to 60dB +/- 10. It simply isn't sensitive enough to take a reading from a listening position more than about 1 foot away, unless the fan noise is extremely high.

That's exactly right. The best way to measure fan noise with the RS sound level meter is near-field.

Doesn't anyone with the new Samsung PJ have a Radioshack meter handy to make a measurement? This will only take a 3 seconds to do guys, please give me a hand here. (Just trying to find if my PJ is bad.) Thanks,

John

John I just answered your other post.

Dale

Ready2buy,
When i first set up my 710, the noise bothered me a lot. Based on others responses to my comments here, i decided it was the color wheel whine which had a pitch i found especially annoyng. With about 30 hours on the PJ now the whine is less noticable. I plan to build a hush box around mine soon. PJ noise has always bothered me during quiet scenes. If you dont care to build a box around your pj, i understand Whisperflow [dot com]builds a high quality box out of acrylic. I'll try to measure nois from mine this weekend and post here. I prefer to silence my 710 because i don't think i can match the PQ at anywhere near the price.

John I just answered your other post.

Dale


Dale,

Many thanks, our PJ loudness numbers are the same. You are my new hero ;)

John

I was reviewing my notes from Joe Kane's presentation using the H710 (or perhaps the H700), and he made the comment that if your DVD player sends a 720p image to the Samsung projector it will assume it is an ATSC signal and apply the HD color matrix (Rec. ITU-R BT.709-4) rather than the SD color matrix (Rec. ITU-R BT.601-4). Therefore, I interpret this to mean that if you use a DVD player that upconverts the image to 720p, you want to use the "HD" Color Standard.

Those of you who are "tight" with Joe can perhaps clarify or correct my assumption in this regard.

Ready2buy,
When i first set up my 710, the noise bothered me a lot. Based on others responses to my comments here, i decided it was the color wheel whine which had a pitch i found especially annoyng. With about 30 hours on the PJ now the whine is less noticable. I plan to build a hush box around mine soon. PJ noise has always bothered me during quiet scenes. If you dont care to build a box around your pj, i understand Whisperflow [dot com]builds a high quality box out of acrylic. I'll try to measure nois from mine this weekend and post here. I prefer to silence my 710 because i don't think i can match the PQ at anywhere near the price.

Jon,

Looks like I am going to have to join you in getting used to that color wheel whine becausue I just can't bring my self to trade this projectors awesome PQ for anything else. It's just surprising to me that out of so many people who bought this PJ only you and me have been bothered by this noise. I guess you can say that we are either too picky or that the sensitivity of our ears is superior to those of the others. :D

I am VERY interested in the hush box idea and thank you very much for the tip. My only worry about these is that even though they do the job acoustically they may have an adverse thermal effect by not letting heat out of the projector. I certainly would not want to take on my own DIY on this. I'll call Dave early next week to see what he can do for me. If it's OK I would like to keep in touch with you on your hush box choices.

John

Jon,

Looks like I am going to have to join you in getting used to that color wheel whine becausue I just can't bring my self to trade this projectors awesome PQ for anything else. It's just surprising to me that out of so many people who bought this PJ only you and me have been bothered by this noise. I guess you can say that we are either too picky or that the sensitivity of our ears is superior to those of the others. :D

John

I haven't said anything about the noise because I have never had a digital PJ before, and it is significantly quieter than the CRT that it replaced.

But it is a bit annoying when the movie gets quiet.

~Jay

Couldn't resist projecting some more images on the off-white wall last night after dark. I was blown away--can't imagine how good this will look in a light-controlled theater on a decent screen.

Since our house has lots of angles and windows, I had to project from a stairway landing to get a decent patch of wall. My wife and I sat just a couple of feet behind the PJ--since this was far from the stereo I played the DVD player out through a portable speaker system I use for my iPod (i.e., with fairly low volume output). Even under those conditions, the projector noise was extremely minimal. Neither of us thought the projector would be audible when viewing in the HT with real surround.

Regarding the projector noise, if you have the lamp set to "bright," the fan speeds up with a corresponding increase in noise. Try the "theater" setting to see if that is more acceptable.

"I am VERY interested in the hush box idea and thank you very much for the tip. My only worry about these is that even though they do the job acoustically they may have an adverse thermal effect by not letting heat out of the projector. I certainly would not want to take on my own DIY on this. I'll call Dave early next week to see what he can do for me. If it's OK I would like to keep in touch with you on your hush box choices. "

Ready2buy:
The Whisperflow boxes are designed to maintain the temperature in the normal operating range. They use a low noise fan to vent the box.
jv

Regarding the projector noise, if you have the lamp set to "bright," the fan speeds up with a corresponding increase in noise. Try the "theater" setting to see if that is more acceptable.

I think we are just nit picking again. The projector is so quiet in theater mode that the noise from the color wheel stands out. To me it sounds like a light bulb on a cheap dimmer. it's very subtle, but that high pitch is annoying.

In bright mode the fan may drown out the high pitch noise and solve the problem ;)

~Jay

A couple of questions:

1) Is the lens threaded and, if so, what size filter does it accept ?

2) The spec states V-synch range of 48 - 100 Hz. Has anyone verified that it will accept 48 or (preferrably 72 Hz) at 720p ? Or would it have to be 480p ? What does non 60Hz input do to the colour wheel speed ?

Thanks,
Brent

Kevin

Firstly, thanks for your detailed responses.

Secondly, based on these statementsThe benefit of the H710AE is that its primaries fall very close to the applicable color space standard (SMPTE_C, HD, or EBU).I was reviewing my notes from Joe Kane's presentation using the H710 (or perhaps the H700), and he made the comment that if your DVD player sends a 720p image to the Samsung projector it will assume it is an ATSC signal and apply the HD color matrix (Rec. ITU-R BT.709-4) rather than the SD color matrix (Rec. ITU-R BT.601-4).I am a little bit confused. Different different matrices all leading to D65 implies that the primaries must be different in each colour space (presumably the differences between SMPTE_C, HD, & EBU), no ? If this is true, how can the H710AE simultaneously have accurate primaries for all colour spaces ? It would seem the "native" primaries of the H710AE would have to lie outside the union of all the colour spaces .....

I know I should really go off and read Poynton before asking this question but it is tax time this weekend :eek:

Brent

Yes, if it has a max possible gamut greater than or = to 709 primaries, it can switch between that and Smpte C presumably. I am not familiar with this projector specifically, but my understanding was that it did have this capability to choose/switch primaries.

Can someone messgae me the best street price they've found on this projector and where. Someone posted a price in the mid 2's, but I haven't seen that anywhere.

Contact the guys at AVS they have it for one of the lowest prices you can find and it includes a top line mount in the price...

Good luck,

Again, relying on my notes from the presentation, Joe Kane said that if the gamut of the projector is greater than the target primaries, then the processor can constrict the gamut to bring it in line with the target.

In other words, you can shrink the gamut but you cannot make it larger, so the H710 must have a gamut that is larger than the 709 primary standard.

By the way, I picked up an HD-DVD player this morning at BB and will get a chance to try it out a little later tonight!

All you 710 owners, just wondering if the projector has a standard IEC female connector on the power cord? Does anyone think it is worth while upgrading to a better power cord on this projector? Not an $800 one, just a $100-$150 one. Or is it just a waste of money?

a better power cord on this projector...is it just a waste of money?

yes.

Unless your power cord is damaged or really thin gauge copper, there is never any reason to "upgrade" a power cable. I laugh so hard at these ridiculous after market power cables. Just getting money for pure ignorance. We're talking about 15amps at 120 volts at 60 Hz max. You'd need a seriously flawed cable to mess that up! And let's not forget that it all gets converted into DC anyway and that home theater devices have rectifiers, transformers and capacitors in them!

Now, if you need a longer or shorter length, then that's a legitimate reason to buy another power cable. If your current cable is obviously damaged or is the thickness of a human hair, then yes, you'll get something out of a new power cable. Otherwise, consider taking a grade 9 level electronics course so that you can be well educated enough about electricity to know what a bunch of complete BS after market power cables are!

lol...it's just so silly :p

Jon

Watching the HD-DVD of Phantom on this projector was an incredibly satisfying visual and audio experience. The H710 was made for HD-DVD with its HD color space and unparallel accuracy. Give this projector a high-quality signal and it will blow you away!

I'm ready to move up from my Sharp 9000U (in a totally black basement), but have not viewed any of these projectors. I would also switch from my old Denon 5800 to the 4806, plus add a new Toshiba HD DVD player. New projector will be connected to a Tivo HD receiver/recorder. The Sharp has served me well and any advice would be greatly appreciated (also, where are the best deals?). Thanks.

Now, if you need a longer or shorter length, then that's a legitimate reason to buy another power cable.
Jon

Interesting you said that. Actually I need to connect the PJ power cable to a surge protector. The one in the AV rack is about 12' away from the PJ. My options are:

(1) Buy second surge protector for projector power only
(2) Extension cord connected in series with projector cable
(3) New 12' power cable (one piece)

Which one is the correct answer?

John

Regarding not power cords but filters.....

My experience with power conditioners is the following:

Plugging my Toshiba MT700 into the PS Audio Ultimate outlet that is built into the P 500 power regenerator (but is just a filter on its own) is that unbelievably the color appeared purer and more saturated, and blacks looked better as well.

I wasn't expecting any benefits since the PS Audio unit was bought for my audio gear, but they were clearly there.

I couldn't run the projector off the regenerated circuit because it drew too much power, but if I have the 1000 watt version it would have handled the current, but I'm sure that would yeild even more improvement.

That being said, I think a power cord would provide a very small if any improvemt- power conditioning is the way to go and the PS audio "ultimate outlet" has been replaced with an even better performing unit. All your digital gear could go into that filter so it would be money well spent. The power plants- though amazing are too expensive for projectors in my estimation.

Watching the HD-DVD of Phantom on this projector was an incredibly satisfying visual and audio experience. The H710 was made for HD-DVD with its HD color space and unparallel accuracy. Give this projector a high-quality signal and it will blow you away!

Any macroblocking effects with your new HD-DVD player?

Ready2buy:
The Whisperflow boxes are designed to maintain the temperature in the normal operating range. They use a low noise fan to vent the box.
jv

Yeap, went to his website and saw how they are built. The fan is an integral part of the box. Noticed some of his designs are nicer looking than others. I just emailed him with my specs.

On quiet scenes this color wheel whine is getting on my nerves. I admire those who can just "block it out".

I think that power filters and power cords (less so for power cords) are useful whenever the power supply rejection ratio (PSRR) of your equipment is lacking. For instance, I have Jeff Rowland amp, and I've tried all kinds of power filtering stuff on it (power cords, cryogenically treated outlets, capacitors between hot and neutral on the outlets, etc.) and could never hear much if any difference from any of them. On the other hand, something like the 710 probably doesn't have the best power supply (the Jeff Rowland has an entire box for a power supply, which is separate from the amp section), so I don't doubt that filtering or possibly even power cords would help get rid of some grunge on the 710. This also depends on your power, and mine doesn't seem to be bad (at least I can't tell a difference when I put in a power supply tweak -- like treated outlets -- but others wax eloquently about how such changes made a difference).

Any macroblocking effects with your new HD-DVD player?
Absolutely no artifacting whatsoever (even with the usually difficult scenes of smoke or fog). I also put in the macro-blocking scene on AVIAPro (a regular DVD), and the HD-DVD player appears to have passed that test (I need to look at this more closely with different settings).

In my opinion, HD-DVD offers the highest HQ of any source material. Sure HDTV should be the same, but I'm not sure anyone is broadcasting at full bandwidth, and after watching HD-DVD for two hours, you realize how frequently HDTV suffers from bandwidth artifacts.

One thing I've found is that high-quality display devices are so revealing that they require a an equally high-quality image or they can actually look worse than a cheaper projector because the cheaper one will hide artifacts along with resolution.

The H710 is an incredibly revealing projector. Feed it a poorly mastered DVD and you will see all kinds of artifacts. Feed it something like HD-DVD, and you will feel like you are looking into a window on your wall that you could easily open and walk through -- the illusion of reality is that great.

My two cents on those looking for the best price is to contact Jason at AV Science (the sponsor of this forum).

Great review Kevin. I will now have to get one. :D

Dale

Kevin

Which HD-DVD player did you get? How did you have the output of the dvd player setup?

Thank
Brad

The H710 is an incredibly revealing projector. Feed it a poorly mastered DVD and you will see all kinds of artifacts. Feed it something like HD-DVD, and you will feel like you are looking into a window on your wall that you could easily open and walk through -- the illusion of reality is that great.

My two cents on those looking for the best price is to contact Jason at AV Science (the sponsor of this forum).

I couldn't agree more based on my limited observations. Graduating from the off-white wall in the living room, I set up the projector in our garage last night. Flat white ceiling and wall surface, so still far from ideal. Watched scenes from several movies, and the source quality was readily apparent. For example, my original director's cut of Bladerunner looked awful. Surprisingly, the pod race scene from Phantom Menace looked crude and video-game like rather than realistic, another example of source limitation, IMO. In contrast, scenes from Apocalypse Now and a rental we just got (Constant Gardener) looked absolutely filmlike, even when projected to a size of ~150" diagonal and viewed from ~13'.

Scenes from the latter two movies also revealed the impressive color fidelity. The arrow attack scene from Apocalypse has orange smoke wafting around--later, Martin Sheen emerging from the water to get Kurtz (with the Doors in the background) was amazing. The Constant Gardener has beautiful photography and colors depicting scenes in rural and urban Kenya. The "Cars" trailer on the Toy Story 2 disk was also phenomenal. My frame of reference is a properly calibrated Sony XBR CRT.

I have no doubt that a properly mastered HD-DVD would look stunning with this PJ. I imagine that other transfers will be disappointing, as those of us who remember the early CD days can testify with respect to audio.

Right now the only game in town is the Toshiba HD-DVD player. You wouldn't want to connect this using anything less than the HDMI output (I use a DVI cable with a DVI/HDMI converter plug to connect to the HD-DVD player).

Personally, I prefer the DVI connection because physically it is so much more robust than HDMI, which pulls out easily and can torque the solder connection in the projector. My guess is that the H710 intentionally avoided having an HDMI connection for these reasons.

i just ordered a 710 based on its word of mouth quiet operation, now some of you guys are talking hushboxes and I am getting nervous. I am coming from a Infocus which I liked the picture but the sound was just too much in a small room.

All you 710 owners, just wondering if the projector has a standard IEC female connector on the power cord? Does anyone think it is worth while upgrading to a better power cord on this projector? Not an $800 one, just a $100-$150 one. Or is it just a waste of money?

Yes it's a waste of money.

Think about what you will be plugging that $100 pwr cord into? Your wall outlet which has hundreds of feet of 12 or 14 gage @ 10 cents a foot behind that wall.

Fleaman

Interesting you said that. Actually I need to connect the PJ power cable to a surge protector. The one in the AV rack is about 12' away from the PJ. My options are:

(1) Buy second surge protector for projector power only
(2) Extension cord connected in series with projector cable
(3) New 12' power cable (one piece)

Which one is the correct answer?

John

#2 or #3, up to you.

By plugging your PJ into the same surge protector as your AV equipment, you will also avoid any potential ground loop problems.

Fleaman

Kevin

What I was wondering is which looks better sending out 1080i to the 710ae or 720p. With HD-DVD player.

Thanks
Brad

I need some help here and I may just be obsessing but I want to cover all my bases. I recently purchased a DVDO VP30. I chose it for its full 10 bit processing and the new ABT 102 coming soon. All my sources are HDMI or SDI and I will be outputting HDMI. My concern is DVI is only 8 bit capable. What am I losing here? If I go into the PJ with 1:1 pixel mapping through the VP30, I am still taking advantage of the 10bit processing. Someone in the know, like Kevin or George AB, can you help me get my head around this? Thanks for the info guys.

I need some help here and I may just be obsessing but I want to cover all my bases. I recently purchased a DVDO VP30. I chose it for its full 10 bit processing and the new ABT 102 coming soon. All my sources are HDMI or SDI and I will be outputting HDMI. My concern is DVI is only 8 bit capable. What am I losing here? If I go into the PJ with 1:1 pixel mapping through the VP30, I am still taking advantage of the 10bit processing. Someone in the know, like Kevin or George AB, can you help me get my head around this? Thanks for the info guys.

The sources are 8-bit. If there is processing before the display, there can be advantages to greater bit-depths. It really depends on how much you're trying to do before the display.

What I was wondering is which looks better sending out 1080i to the 710ae or 720p. With HD-DVD player.
In discussing this with the technical consultant for Toshiba, he indicated (after a lengthly technical explanation) that setting the HD-DVD to 1080i will give the best results on 720p display devices -- especially one with a good processor like the H710.

My limited experience with the Phantom DVD supports this recommendation that seems somewhat counterintuitive.

I would also suggest setting the H710 color standard to HD and setting the black level on the HD-DVD player to "enhanced" which applies no step up for the black level (e.g., 0 IRE black level).

As an aside, Toshiba was passing out a hybrid SD / HD-DVD disc at CES that refuses to play on the Toshiba player. I hope this doesn't portend problems for upcoming hybrid releases.

i just ordered a 710 based on its word of mouth quiet operation, now some of you guys are talking hushboxes and I am getting nervous. I am coming from a Infocus which I liked the picture but the sound was just too much in a small room.
I've owned a number of single-bulb projectors and calibrated dozens more. The Optomas Hxx may be somewhat quieter, but the H710 is within the same league.

Projectors put out a lot of light and that generates a lot of heat. Until LED bulbs come out, fan noise will be an inherent part of any front projector.

You should have heard my old Sony VPH-D50 CRT projector that had no less than 7 fans! When fired up, it sounded like a turbine engine getting ready to take off. In comparison, current DLP projectors are amazingly quiet.

I need some help here and I may just be obsessing but I want to cover all my bases. I recently purchased a DVDO VP30. I chose it for its full 10 bit processing and the new ABT 102 coming soon. All my sources are HDMI or SDI and I will be outputting HDMI. My concern is DVI is only 8 bit capable. What am I losing here? If I go into the PJ with 1:1 pixel mapping through the VP30, I am still taking advantage of the 10bit processing. Someone in the know, like Kevin or George AB, can you help me get my head around this? Thanks for the info guys.
The VP30 and with the Samsung 710 are a marriage made in heaven. You will be taking full advantage of the 10 bit front-end processing. The limitation of the system will be the 8 bit limitation of single chip DLP (limited to a fixed number of color samples per second, based on color wheel rotation*).


Ken Whitcomb

*more on this later, so stay tuned.

Kevin.........

Have you ever had an experience with the InFocus 7210? Calibration or otherwise... and if so could you try and compare the 710AE to the 7210?? (other than noise of course)

Thanks

The VP30 and with the Samsung 710 are a marriage made in heaven. You will be taking full advantage of the 10 bit front-end processing. The limitation of the system will be the 8 bit limitation of single chip DLP (limited to a fixed number of color samples per second, based on color wheel rotation*).


Ken Whitcomb

*more on this later, so stay tuned.

First of all, thanks Ken. I need the "more on this" sooner than later. I was going to place an order tomorrow or Tuesday. Either way, please do let us know.

As for the 8 bit limitation of the color wheel, is this for just the Samsung, all DLPs with 6 segment wheels or all DLPs total. I thought that the newer 8 segment wheels all had 10 bit processing. Is this not the case? Are the newer DC3s all 8bit limited as well? DOes having an HDMI input make any difference? I know the new PE8720 and some of the Optomas are claiming 10 bit processing. Thanks for your help.

Longshanksdvd,

the sound level from the 710 at theater setting is fairly low. it's just the pitch of the color wheel whine that bugs me - guess i'm just easily annoyed;-) most people here don't seem bothered by the noise level. it's qiueter than my old sony hs10. in any case, the picture quality beats anything i've seen at even double the price, hence the hush box approach for me. i don't think you will be disappointed with this pj. The 710 plus cost of a hush box is well below that of a marantz s4 and its every bit as good a picture imo.
jv

Longshanksdvd,

the sound level from the 710 at theater setting is fairly low. it's just the pitch of the color wheel whine that bugs me - guess i'm just easily annoyed;-) most people here don't seem bothered by the noise level. it's qiueter than my old sony hs10. in any case, the picture quality beats anything i've seen at even double the price, hence the hush box approach for me. i don't think you will be disappointed with this pj. The 710 plus cost of a hush box is well below that of a marantz s4 and its every bit as good a picture imo.
jv

I am with Jon on this. This projector is actually not noisy at all and if you take a poll you will find that most buyers feel it's pretty quiet. Some people however (such as me and Jon) may be far more sensitive to a particular sound frequency coming out of this projector attributed to the color wheel.

I am on record as saying that this tone is annoying to me. On the other hand I have asked both my wife and son about it and neither one is bothered by it. Chances are that if you buy this PJ you will find it very acceptable from the noise prespective. (Now the picture quality is another matter and it will blow you away.)

John

thx, im pretty sure that it will be an improvement. the 7205 was a torando in my room, not to mentioned dropped down a foot into the room closer to the viewing area.

Thanks Kevin

I am wanting to get the Toshiba for my 710AE. I have been following the audio problem some are reporting so I may have to wait.

Brad

Kevin,

Have you had a chance to assess the Toshiba with standard definition DVDs? Since the recommendation from Toshiba is that the player is best set to output at 1080i, I would assume that this player would be no better than others for non-HD source material, but it would be good to hear your impressions on this subject.

I had been set to buy an inexpensive "bridge" DVD player to mate with the 710 prior to buying a second-generation HD-DVD or BluRay player in around a year when price, bugs, and format wars are shaken out a bit. However, after reading your post and seeing that Netflix already has the option to add the couple of HD-DVD titles to my queue, I'm reconsidering that plan.

KK

The VP30 and with the Samsung 710 are a marriage made in heaven. You will be taking full advantage of the 10 bit front-end processing. The limitation of the system will be the 8 bit limitation of single chip DLP (limited to a fixed number of color samples per second, based on color wheel rotation*).


Ken Whitcomb


Glad to hear it! Just order both from Jason @ A/V Science and the pre-order on the ABT card. He was great to deal with and the prices were as good or better then any place you'll find online.

Ken when can we look forward to your "more to come" update?

Jeff

Personally, I prefer the DVI connection because physically it is so much more robust than HDMI, which pulls out easily and can torque the solder connection in the projector. My guess is that the H710 intentionally avoided having an HDMI connection for these reasons.

How do you connect your laptop to this PJ? The back of my laptop doesn't have a DVI connection although my PC workstation does. Do I just use a standard computer monitor cable that I have laying around or do I need to buya special cable for PC use? (My wife wanted to view some hi res pictures from our last vacation and these are stored on the laptop hard disk.)

The H710 has a standard 15-pin Sub-D connector, meaning you can use a standard computer monitor cable. On page 58, the manual lists the supported computer resolutions. In the menu, got to "Setup" and "PC" and then select "Auto Adjustment" to automatically set the proper timing to sync with your PC (some manual adjustment may still be required).

It should look great. Try surfing the web or watching some DVDs on your laptop while you are at it. You may never be able to go back to a 15" monitor again.

You have that backwards with regards to clipping. Stacey's method preserves a little bit below 16 the way he describes it, ensuring that pretty much everything there is reasonably maintained.

I do agree that it can be a taste thing, because dithering on an all-16 black frame or area in an image may bother some people, for instance.

I didn't have it backwards in my mind, but I could have done a better job phrasing my point. I was trying to say that using the finer control available on most displays Bias controls to set Black can also eliminate (or at least reduce) the slight amount of clipping that can occur when setting Black with the coarser Brightness control. This is when setting Black (16,16,16) to the point where the display just stops dithering.

Stacys method might make detail just above Black slightly more visible (but not necessarily), at the expense of higher overall black levels. There is nothing unique about the Samy in this regard. The effect is the same with every digital display. The most significant factor is how large the step is from 16 to 17 in the gamma lookup tables of the display. If it is very small, then a small amount of clipping may clip it.

Personally, I struggle with this decision when setting Plasmas more than I do with DLPs. I set Black in most DLPs to the point where dithering just stops. To assess the affect, I put on a dim scene with shadow detail just above Black and view the affect of raising the Brightness control by a click. The affect varies from one display to another depending on the coarseness of the display's Brightness control and its gamma implementation.

Glenn

Try this: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Samsung-SP-H710AE-projection-calculator-pro.htm

As for lens shift, according to this review http://www.projectorcentral.com/samsung_sph710.htm :

"The H710 offers a lens shift range of roughly 2.5 screen heights - in other words, from neutral position, the image can be shifted 1.25 screen heights either up or down (neutral position is when the centerline of the lens and the center of the image are at the same height). This is an impressive range, and allows for excellent flexibility for placement of the projector without resorting to drop-tube ceiling mounts or tilting the projector and applying keystone correction."

Dumb question- does this mean I can mount it with a "flush mount" to an 8-foot ceiling and not need to use keystone correction to get the image to projector to a screen that might begin 3-5" lower?

I would recommend that you change the screen fabric to Cinema Vision, similar in gain to the Studiotek 130. High-gain screens have hot-spotting issues, and typically have poor spectral uniformity (they reflect different wavelengths of light unevenly). This would also widen your viewing cone.


Ken Whitcomb
Ken,

I'm going to jump on the screen question too. 92" screen with Sammy, can control ambient light well, especially at night (total dark if needed). Primarily HD and DVD viewing.

Sitting 12-14 feet from screen, pretty centered, not many side viewers. Room is 13' wide and 18' feet long. 8' flat white ceiling (typical ceiling color). Walls are a putty/cement color that doesn't seem to reflect light. Again, ceiling is white, and I'll have to ceiling mount projector. Screen may start 6" from ceiling?

Was looking at a Carada screen, either a 1.0 or 1.4 gain screen.

Any advice from you Ken, or anyone else?

Thanks!

Fred

OK, no response to these questions from before, so I will ask again (and throw in a bonus question :) )

- Anyone had success in displaying 48Hz (to avoid 3:2 judder) ?

- Is the lens threaded (to accept ND filters) ?

- Is it end-user firmware upgradable ?

TIA
Brent

FreddyW, you may want to read this whole thread (at least that's where I think this material is), as supposedly the lens shift for the 710 isn't as great as indicated in that article. Nonetheless, what you said is correct -- you should be able to put the projector above the height of the top of the screen and not use keystone correction. I just don't remember the exact amount by which you can put the projector above the top of the screen.

FreddyW, you may want to read this whole thread (at least that's where I think this material is), as supposedly the lens shift for the 710 isn't as great as indicated in that article. Nonetheless, what you said is correct -- you should be able to put the projector above the height of the top of the screen and not use keystone correction. I just don't remember the exact amount by which you can put the projector above the top of the screen.

I was reading the thread. Then everything started to get blurry around page 17 and I went into information overload :)

FreddyW: Follow this link to where you can download the user manual. That will answer your questions about screen offset.

SP-H710AE Manual (http://www.samsung.com/support/productsupport/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=Monitor&typecode=2&subtype=Projector&cmssubtypecode=206&model=SP%2DH710AE&filetype=UM)

FreddyW: Follow this link to where you can download the user manual. That will answer your questions about screen offset. Basically, the projector has a manual adjustment for offset that makes installation easy and flexible.

SP-H710AE Manual (http://www.samsung.com/support/productsupport/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=Monitor&typecode=2&subtype=Projector&cmssubtypecode=206&model=SP%2DH710AE&filetype=UM)

Fair enough- thank you!

FreddyW,

I'm planning on a 110" Carada for a dedicated HT with perfect light control and a midnight blue ceiling. Tested the 710AE in a friend's light-controlled (but white) theater last night on his home-brewed screen. I played with samples of the Carada gray, classic cinema white and brilliant white screen materials. To be honest, the only one that I didn't like was the gray. While I could distinguish the other two screens (CCW and BW) I didn't see any real improvement (e.g., with black levels) with the CCW. Given the favorable comparisons of the BW screen to the StudioTek130 surface (search for reviews and you'll see) and the JKP recommendation of that screen for this projector, I will be going with the BW. BTW, while I don't feel comfortable going home-made with a new dedicated theater and a projection this nice, my friend's screen looked quite good--hard to tell too much given the small size of the screen samples, but I expected more improvement over his screen than I saw.

FreddyW,
Per Dave Abrams somewhere in this thread, the 710 can be mounted anywhere between 5% above to 5% below the screen. For example, if your screen is 50" high you can center the lens up to 2.5" above the top of the screen without keystoning. That is the limit of the lens shift. Dave is the official JKP expert on the 710.
jv

I got my 710 setup last night via DVI from an 8300 cable box.

I am about to set up my toshiba MT700 (same TI DLP chip) and try and use

the monoprice switcher to switch the cable box back and forth between the projectors.

The 710 has great black levels, and seems very sharp, BUT....

I am am seeing HD compression artifacts that I never saw before....

massive ones, reds that competley break - edges that look noisey, etc.

Even seeing some gradient banding that I never noticed before on my

MT700 (which is about to go back to Toshiba for a refund)

I am very sensitive to artifacts and because as a TV and film editor,

I have to be on the lookout for these as they pop up in the process of

creating spots, tv shows, videos, etc.

I am hoping that the 710 just has so much resloution that I am seeing this,

rather than the DVI vs. HDMI that the MT700 has.

Another thing I noticed is that the lwo lamp mode doesn't seem much dimmer than

the high lamp mode. The DNIE actually looks good on good material, but seems to make

artifacts more noticable when they are present- but for the right source material - it seems

to be the first image processing that I would actually use.

The whine of the color wheel is not as bad as I would have imagined, but is there

as many have posted.

I'll report back in a few hours if I am able to get both projectors up via DVI/HDMI.

I finally finished the jump from the Infocus ship and purchased a 710 today. I'm supposed to get my tracking number tomorrow. I can't wait! The only HD I have right now is my Xbox 360. I have to get that OTA tuner working now.

Thanks for the reviews and comments from everyone. Your info helped me in my decision.

The H710 has a standard 15-pin Sub-D connector, meaning you can use a standard computer monitor cable. On page 58, the manual lists the supported computer resolutions. In the menu, got to "Setup" and "PC" and then select "Auto Adjustment" to automatically set the proper timing to sync with your PC (some manual adjustment may still be required).

It should look great. Try surfing the web or watching some DVDs on your laptop while you are at it. You may never be able to go back to a 15" monitor again.

Kevin,

Which resolution are you using with your PC? In my laptop I have the 1280x1024 or the lower one of 1024x768 and then an even lower one at 800x600. The only choice for display frequency in the PC is 60 Hz.

Thanks,

John

Anyone have any comments on Samsung's customer support and / or warranty fulfillment on high-ish end projectors like the H710ae? I remember reading some comments a while ago about Samsung not yet having the infrastructure to support a projector like this one, and I'm wondering if this is still true.
Thanks!

Okay

I have the 2 projectors (710 and MT700) set up and am am plugging an HDMI cable bacl and forth quckly into the monoprice unit so I can compare pics within 20 seconds or so (I have to block the lens of each after switching the cable)

I am actually comparing a few shots from an HD episode of this past week's Saturday night live I have stored on the DVR, becuase there are some strong reds in a dress (I thinks it's Amy Pohler) is wearing in this weeks opening sketch about the White House.

There is a unbelieveable amount of difference in the quality of these projectors. The blacks and mid tones of the 710 are so extended, they make the MT700 looked flashed ( a film term meaning light leaked was leaked into the film intenionally or unintentionally before processing)

The MT700 just doesn't have the dynamic range the 710 does. Colors have added subtlty as well, as some shades apear more generic on the MT700 than they do on the 710.

Now, with all that added dynamic range, the compression artifacts I mentioned above are way more noticable. They are there with the MT700, it's just that they are more hidden, because it can't resolve as much color and information in the mid tones. I tried making the Mt700 a bit contrastier to see if I could make the red dress show more artifacts, and in fact I could make them a bit more noticable, but not as much so as the 710)

Now that being said, any time in the past I altered the brightenss or contrast of the Mt700 to get a bit more punch, I would clearly loose shadow details and crush the blacks. And this was only a tiny bit of correction, so I always left the the unit with zero contrast or brightness.

The 710 doesn't need any contast boost to look rich.

I ended up looking at gamma setting and realized I was in Gamma mode 2,

so I repeated the test in Gamma mode 1 and while the red artifatcs were a bit less present

than in gamma mode 2, they were still there.

This projector is a real revelation, and as such seems to show details that other display devices gloss over. This should be a prime unit for HD DVD and other lower compression formats.

So far, DVD's upscalled through a V880 seem to look good, but I have to watch more material to be sure and to determine if I should let the DVD player do the upscale or let the 710 do it.

I do know with the MT700 it was better to have the cable box (8300) output 720P than 1080i, but with the 710 I am not seeing a benefit to having the cable box do the scaling.


Someone mentioned raising the gamma settings, but I wonder if they were done in the service menu? Can anyone elaborate.

emailists: If you are so finiky about picture quality and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, why don't you look at a high-end scaler like a DVDO or Lumagen? It's certanily going to address a lot of the issues (woln't be perfect) you see with cheaper scalers such as those in the projector or DVD players. I relalize they aren't cheap but in cases like yours where it's detracting from your viewing experience it would make sense to make the investment.

Glad your enjoying the 710! :)

It's not a scaling issue - these are Mpeg compression artifacts from HD cablecasting.

I'm just giving my impressions of the unit, both positive and negative (not that there is a real negative - just that these artifacts are more noticable)

Yes it's a waste of money.

Think about what you will be plugging that $100 pwr cord into? Your wall outlet which has hundreds of feet of 12 or 14 gage @ 10 cents a foot behind that wall.

Fleaman
Man, what a good post!

emailists,

How many screen widths are you viewing from?

The supposed effects caused by power cords are due to the power cord itself acting like a filter and filtering out noise on the power lines before the noise gets into the power supply of whatever device you are using. So, what's before the power cord is immaterial. Now, I'm not a big believer that power cords will do much, but that's the theory.

Returning to the thread at hand, did anyone ever figure out how much above the screen the Samsung can be placed? I remember there being some confusion regarding this issue, and this is likely the single most important datum from my point of view.

[QUOTE=ctviggen]The supposed effects caused by power cords are due to the power cord itself acting like a filter and filtering out noise on the power lines before the noise gets into the power supply of whatever device you are using. So, what's before the power cord is immaterial. Now, I'm not a big believer that power cords will do much, but that's the theory.

That is funny the power cord acting like a filter :p :p :p :p

The supposed effects caused by power cords are due to the power cord itself acting like a filter and filtering out noise on the power lines before the noise gets into the power supply of whatever device you are using. So, what's before the power cord is immaterial. Now, I'm not a big believer that power cords will do much, but that's the theory.

Returning to the thread at hand, did anyone ever figure out how much above the screen the Samsung can be placed? I remember there being some confusion regarding this issue, and this is likely the single most important datum from my point of view.

I, too, found the whole power cord bit funny (though someone is clearly laughing all the way to the bank). BTW, the power in our walls is running in wires much smaller than 14g, so fleaman's remark didn't even go far enough!

Regarding the mounting issue, see Jon V's post not long before yours, which referenced the comments from Dave Abrams at JKP.

The supposed effects caused by power cords are due to the power cord itself acting like a filter and filtering out noise on the power lines before the noise gets into the power supply of whatever device you are using. So, what's before the power cord is immaterial. Now, I'm not a big believer that power cords will do much, but that's the theory.
.

Some of those boutique overpriced pwr cords have filters built into them. If you have dirty pwr, get a dedicated surge suppressor with filters, it will more than likely work much better than a $100+ pwr cord w/filters and allow you to plug most of your equipment into it.

Otherwise I can make you some nice 10 gage for $10 a foot that will perform as well as Any other pwr cord.

PM me for my paypal account ;)

Fleaman

"BTW, the power in our walls is running in wires much smaller than 14g"

Not modern wiring. I've never seen Romex smaller than 14 AWG or a circuit breaker less than 15 A.

15 A requires 14 AWG, and 20 A requires 12 AWG.

You guys that are interested in power cords and filters might chech out a product from audionut it is the juice goose rx10.
I have a seperate 12g outlet and I needed a surge protector and thought I would give it a try. I noticed a slighty cleaner picture, possibly a little sharper. I live in rural america, so maybe the power is not quite as clean. Anyways it is a good way to have protection and I think it will improve the picture slightly in most cases.

Joe Kane shared some tidbits with me today that will be of interest to this thread. He said the 710 is calibrated at the factory through the lens with no screen involved. The Stewart GrayHawk RS and StudioTech 130 are the only screens he has tested extensively and found to be neutral. Those are the only ones he recommends to get the full benefit of the reference color performance this projector can deliver. His opinion of the 710s he has examined is that they are coming from the factory very close to ideal and should be used with a neutral screen.

His recommended procedure is still to calibrate off the screen. This requires unique procedures beyond the featured facilities in the user menu. Access to the service menu is a necessity, via a factory remote or PC. Joe recommends using a Photo Research PR650 spectroradiometer or equivalent. He insists that his class be taken to get the complete and accurate information for fully calibrating this display. I will be receiving the registration information from him shortly.

The good news is that the average consumer can benefit from excellent factory calibration, along with its superb color performance, etc., when purchasing this projector. The bad news is that there are not very many professional calibrators around with the instrumentation and training to fully set this unit up to the 'nth degree.

The better news I have saved for last. Joe is planning to demonstrate his new Samsung PS-H900A DLP projector at CEDIA EXPO in Denver this September. Yes, it will be 1080p. He is hoping it will become available to the public by the end of this year. That's all I know about it.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

George

Thats for the info on the 1080p projector. I was hoping Joe would work on a 1080p.

Brad

15 A requires 14 AWG, and 20 A requires 12 AWG.

My bad--thanks for the correction.

The better news I have saved for last. Joe is planning to demonstrate his new Samsung PS-H900A DLP projector at CEDIA EXPO in Denver this September. Yes, it will be 1080p. He is hoping it will become available to the public by the end of this year.

Well this REALLY is good news! And it probably also explains the dramatic price drop in the 710, to clear them out before the 1080p unit arrives. Just hope the 1080p Sammy is price competitive, i.e., MSRP </= $10K.

The model 800 is the current model, with Dark Chip 3, at 720p. It sells for $12,000.00 in limited distribution. I would not be surprised if it continues to serve as a 720p option for its dealers. It would also not surprise me if the model 900 is priced higher than that.

The 710 did not appear until after the 800 became available.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The model 800 is the current model, with Dark Chip 3, at 720p. It sells for $12,000.00 in limited distribution. I would not be surprised if it continues to serve as a 720p option for its dealers. It would also not surprise me if the model 900 is priced higher than that.

On the other hand, with Samsung's RPTV's, when the 1080p sets first came out last year, they were no more than ~10% higher than the previous 720p versions, and the second generation 1080p's (coming out just about now) are less expensive than the 720p sets of two years ago. So one can hope!

On the other hand, with Samsung's RPTV's, when the 1080p sets first came out last year, they were no more than ~10% higher than the previous 720p versions, and the second generation 1080p's (coming out just about now) are less expensive than the 720p sets of two years ago. So one can hope!

True, but Samsung's first business is not projectors. I have a very close friend who worked there for several years, up until recently. The TVs and personal electronics (and crushing Sony) are where they want to be. Sony has projectors, thus Samsung does. Sony used the SXCD, Sammy uses DLP and hired Joe Kane to design. The projector line is, according to my friend, a bit of the red-headed stepchild. That's not to say they don't put the effort into it. But they don't lose too much sleep as it is such a small part of their product line.

It's a bit of a showcase line- Joe runs a great demo at CES (been there a couple times to see it). Gets Samsung tech out there.

That being said, I'm buying a 710 for myself ;)

It's an economics of scale issue. Samsung makes and sells far more RPTVs than front projectors. You won't be seeing the 1080p model 900 in Circuit City. Dealers are few and far between. Try finding a dealer for the current model 800. Dealers are restricted to those who can supply a Stewart screen and have the instrumentation and training to calibrate it correctly. Lower numbers = higher prices.

Release of the 710 for wider distribution has resulted in the lower price it sells for now. It's an older DMD chip and color wheel but outperforms newer projectors costing more. The 710 is a wonderful value and I don't know how much longer Samsung will be making them.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Viewed my first movie on this yesterday, after a quick brightness/contrast calibration. Feed was 720p native res (1x1) coming from a Lumagen HDP being feed 480i over HDMI from Pioneer DV-59Avi.

Very easy to get in 1x1, just snaps in when fed the right signal (DVI in my case). Syncs perfectly at 720p/47.5 for judder-free movement, no tearing. Movement is extremly convincing and super-smooth, almost too real. Very solid looking image, right in your face, no hesitation... Reminds me of listening to vinyl instead of CD, much more "authoritive". Colors seemed right, and so did grayscale, but I didn't measure anything yet. Plenty bright for my 84" 16x9 screen in Theater mode. I don't have a light controlled setup, but with the lights off it works fine at night even with the ambient NYC light pollution coming in from the windows. When I open the windows, I feel like I'm at a drive-in! More to come after calibration...

Well, after 6 weeks of research...and realizing that this projector is the newer version of the 700 (which looked fantastic) that Joe Kane demoed at CES, I ordered the Samsung. I did use my friend who worked there for his employee, so don't ask how much I paid.

The wife and I were out this weekend (anniversary), and she made me buy an ethan allen plasma table as compromise for the projector purchase. But, it will fit all my components, including large amplifiers, with no problem. And look nice with all the nicer furniture we already have in the media room. I like not seeing wires or components exposed.

Ordered some wall plates for component video and a few blank ones for DVI and 15-pin for PC. Also a ceiling plate for projectors that hides the cables a bit. I am going to run all cables for every input on projector, even if I may not use then right away. I'm only going in the wall once :)

When the projector gets here, I need to look at it and determine a mount, and order that.

I am going to go with a Carada 92" Brilliant white screen, the criterion version with the larger border. Not ordering the screen until I get all the wire and cable run in walls and mount the projector. I want to make sure I can access everything and not damage screen. Plus, in case I have to patch & paint as well.

Can't wait to get on the projector bandwagon. It's been a loooooonnngggg road getting here. Finance, house, wife approval (toughest one!).

I'm estimating 3-4 weeks until completion. Hopefully better than that, but we'll see.

If you can't tell, I am very excited :)

Fred

If you can't tell, I am very excited :)

Fred

You should be :D

When you have it all set up and dialed in, play one of your wifes favorite DVD's (hopefully it will be a well mastered one) and she will understand what the excitement was all about.

Fleaman

FreddyW,

I talked to Joe Kane again last week about this projector. He said it was essentially the same projector as the 700. Just consider it as having Joe Kane optimize your projector from the ground up. Samsung calibrates it through the lens at the factory. The only thing it really lacks out of the box for its best performance is either one of his Stewart screens, or pay to have it calibrated to whatever screen you mate it with otherwise. Of course the user controls will still need to be adjusted for your viewing environment and source signals.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

You should be :D

When you have it all set up and dialed in, play one of your wifes favorite DVD's (hopefully it will be a well mastered one) and she will understand what the excitement was all about.

Fleaman

Funny you should say that. This weekend, she said, "the first movie we watch has to be Brokeback Mountain."

I just looked at her....and shook my head :)

Funny you should say that. This weekend, she said, "the first movie we watch has to be Brokeback Mountain."

I just looked at her....and shook my head :)

I guess that falls into the category of, '...careful what you ask for...' :eek:

Fleaman

I have not seen Brokeback Mountain, but supposedly the scenery (shot in Canada, I believe) is stunning.

I am having a problem finding any professional reviews on the Samsung. I have heard that a few exist namely Sound and Vision. Do you fellas have any links to these reviews ? Thanks

Here is a review of the older H700 done by Home Theater magazine. I understand the H700 is essentially the same as the H710 (can anyone explain the exact distinctions between these two models?). My experience with this projector is consistent with the review except I find the image incredibly sharp and detailed for both 480p DVDs and HD images (HD-DVD and HDTV).

I recently calibrated a 56" 1080p RPTV and took my Toshiba HD-DVD player to show the client how good the picture could look. While it was impressive, the H710 blows it away both as to detail, sharpness and color fidelity, which surprised me a little because of the 720p vs. 1080p difference. The H710 has really made me rethink my plans of upgrading to a 1080p projector anytime soon.

H700 Review (http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/505samsung/)

I have not seen Brokeback Mountain, but supposedly the scenery (shot in Canada, I believe) is stunning.

I'm sure it is. But, so is the scenery in Raiders of the Lost Ark or Empire Strikes Back.

Two movies I would *much* prefer to fire up before <cough> Brokeback ;)

FreddyW,

I talked to Joe Kane again last week about this projector. He said it was essentially the same projector as the 700. Just consider it as having Joe Kane optimize your projector from the ground up. Samsung calibrates it through the lens at the factory. The only thing it really lacks out of the box for its best performance is either one of his Stewart screens, or pay to have it calibrated to whatever screen you mate it with otherwise. Of course the user controls will still need to be adjusted for your viewing environment and source signals.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks Alan. I'm going with a Carada Brilliant white 92" screen. Audioholics and ProjectorReviews.com seem to find it similar to the Studiotek 130 from Stewart. Whether that's true or not, the gain is similar, and the price is a 1/3 of the Stewart :)

Here is a review of the older H700 done by Home Theater magazine. I understand the H700 is essentially the same as the H710 (can anyone explain the exact distinctions between these two models?). My experience with this projector is consistent with the review except I find the image incredibly sharp and detailed for both 480p DVDs and HD images (HD-DVD and HDTV).

I recently calibrated a 56" 1080p RPTV and took my Toshiba HD-DVD player to show the client how good the picture could look. While it was impressive, the H710 blows it away both as to detail, sharpness and color fidelity, which surprised me a little because of the 720p vs. 1080p difference. The H710 has really made me rethink my plans of upgrading to a 1080p projector anytime soon.

H700 Review (http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/505samsung/)

I dont know if the h700 is the same as the h710 but it looks like home theater mag got some very different results measuring ansi contrast than the members of this forum. Does anyone else have some specs that they can post - brightness, on/off contrast, ansi contrast.

Thanks,
Eric

I've read through this thread, and didn't find exactly what I needed to know. But I apoligize if this has already been asked.

I'm getting a CP2 115" screen. I know JK has said that this will work with up to 120" the studiotek 130, which I believe is a 1 gain screen. The SR CP2 is .95 gain, so This should just make it, no?

And my mian question is, how many screenwidths back must one be before screen door disappears on this unit?

I'm sure it is. But, so is the scenery in Raiders of the Lost Ark or Empire Strikes Back.

Two movies I would *much* prefer to fire up before <cough> Brokeback ;)

I think a couple of the leading ladies go topless in this flick (Brokeback)....maybe some attempt at balancing out the subject matter...

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program....

Fleaman

At the risk of being redundant, I post the following :)

I started a thread asking about ceiling mounts for this projector. It's here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=670657

This thread may be a better spot to get the info, but I did not want to double post. So, if anyone has any projector mount advice for the 710, I'd appreciate you taking a minute to check out the other thread. Thank you!

I am having a problem finding any professional reviews on the Samsung. I have heard that a few exist namely Sound and Vision. Do you fellas have any links to these reviews ? Thanks

Here's one from Projector Central. (http://www.projectorcentral.com/samsung_sph710.htm)

I am having a problem finding any professional reviews on the Samsung. I have heard that a few exist namely Sound and Vision. Do you fellas have any links to these reviews ? Thanks


Sound&Vision mag just did one with 4 other projectors and the Samsung 710AE topped them all for best picture :D

Brad

I think a couple of the leading ladies go topless in this flick (Brokeback)....maybe some attempt at balancing out the subject matter......

Fleaman

No their is No balancing with sick crap like this :(

Sound&Vision mag just did one with 4 other projectors and the Samsung 710AE topped them all for best picture :D

Brad

Does anyone have a link to this one?

Does anyone have a link to this one?
It is not posted, but you can access them in the thread below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7493518#post7493518

I talked to Joe Kane again last week about this projector. He said it was essentially the same projector as the 700. Just consider it as having Joe Kane optimize your projector from the ground up. Samsung calibrates it through the lens at the factory. The only thing it really lacks out of the box for its best performance is either one of his Stewart screens, or pay to have it calibrated to whatever screen you mate it with otherwise. Of course the user controls will still need to be adjusted for your viewing environment and source signals.

George, I'm using the H710AE with a 123" Steward Firehawk G2, and it looks fantastic. I realize this is not the ideal screen according to Joe Kane. How much of a difference is there between the image on a Firehawk vs the Studiotec 130? Is it night and day, or is it a minor improvement in color fidelity?
So far I have not been able to justify the cost of calibration, since the color looks readonably accurate to my eye, and as the blub dims, I would need to have more calibrations done.
Are there any user controls that I can tweak to make a better pairing between the 710 and the Firehawk?

I'm using a 110 Steward Firehawk and it looks real sweet :D :D

skogan,

I'm getting a CP2 115" screen. I know JK has said that this will work with up to 120" the studiotek 130, which I believe is a 1 gain screen. The SR CP2 is .95 gain, so This should just make it, no?

The StudioTek 130 is 1.3 gain. Your alternate screen would compare more in gain to the GrayHawk RS.

And my mian question is, how many screenwidths back must one be before screen door disappears on this unit?

It depends on how good your eyesight is. Personally, I have to sit almost 2 screen widths away to not see any pixels on the brightest white portion of an image, with a 720p DLP.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

fugueness,

How much of a difference is there between the image on a Firehawk vs the Studiotec 130? Is it night and day, or is it a minor improvement in color fidelity?

I've never been able to perform an A/B or side-by-side comparison. In theory I would expect that, on axis, the FH would have better dynamic range, appear a little brighter, but the color would be subtlely different. Our color perception is adaptive. Such subtleties won't be apparent without having a reference next to it. The FH won't be as accurate but it may be the best solution for your application, all other variables considered. You have to live with it and know your viewing environment conditions.

Are there any user controls that I can tweak to make a better pairing between the 710 and the Firehawk?

I don't think so. There are some preset gamma options but they would likely be too course to tweak for screen type.

It's probably wise to remind people who may be considering use of the Stewart FireHawk G2 with this projector that there are certain restrictions. Stewart specifies a minimum throw distance of 1.6 times screen width. This is to avoid hotspotting. The gain is rather aggressive to reach a 1.25 gain from a gray base and aggressive gain typically causes hotspotting under certain conditions. They also recommend any projector be ceiling mounted with this screen. The half gain loss horizontal viewing angle is 30 degrees off axis.

skogan,

...

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thank you very much for your reply.

Woohoo! My 710 is arriving tomorrow! It's going to be a long 24 hours.

geocab

Concrats looks like Ken will be making a trip :D

Brad

I have seen some posts that state the original MSRP for the H710AE was $10k-$12k. Is this really true? I came across this press release:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/news_story_846.htm

Which is the "debut" of this projector as well as the H800BE. The MSRP for the 710 is listed as $4k and the 800 as $12k.

Robert

The 700AE was $10-$12. The 710AE is from what I have read and been told the same projector to only difference is the model number.

Brad

Thanks Alan. I'm going with a Carada Brilliant white 92" screen. Audioholics and ProjectorReviews.com seem to find it similar to the Studiotek 130 from Stewart. Whether that's true or not, the gain is similar, and the price is a 1/3 of the Stewart :)

It's true. I just measured a screen sample of BW material with a spectroradiometer that can read light from the lens of the PJ or from the screen. ISF allows a tolerance of .0040 in x and y in the colorimeters approved for measuring and adjusting a PJs greyscale during calibration.

The Carada BW material shifted the greyscale by .0001 in x and by .0004 in y when compared to the measurements taken directly from the lens of the PJ. A shift of .0010 is barely perceptible. Anything less cannot be seen. To put this in perspective many top notch PJs have deviations of .0030 or more from D65 at some point in their greyscales at 20 IRE or above.

Light fell off by 12% at the edges of the screen as compared to the middle (seating distance 1.5 x screen width). The greyscale measurement at the sides was off by .0004 in x and .0000 in y as compared with the center of the screen.

I also took measurements of the center of the screen from 30 degree and 45 degree angles. The greatest color shift that I found compared to the face-on readings was only .0013 in x and .0012 in y. The luminance (brightness) fell off by 10% at 30 degrees and by 15% at 45 degrees.

This is supurb performance. Have no fear in purchasing this screen.

Glenn

It's true. I just measured a screen sample of BW material with a spectroradiometer that can read light from the lens of the PJ or from the screen. ISF allows a tolerance of .0040 in x and y in the colorimeters approved for measuring and adjusting a PJs greyscale during calibration.

The Carada BW material shifted the greyscale by .0001 in x and by .0004 in y when compared to the measurements taken directly from the lens of the PJ. A shift of .0010 is barely perceptible. Anything less cannot be seen. To put this in perspective many top notch PJs have deviations of .0030 or more from D65 at some point in their greyscales at 20 IRE or above.

Light fell off by 12% at the edges of the screen as compared to the middle (seating distance 1.5 x screen width). The greyscale measurement at the sides was off by .0004 in x and .0000 in y as compared with the center of the screen.

I also took measurements of the center of the screen from 30 degree and 45 degree angles. The greatest color shift that I found compared to the face-on readings was only .0013 in x and .0012 in y. The luminance (brightness) fell off by 10% at 30 degrees and by 15% at 45 degrees.

This is supurb performance. Have no fear in purchasing this screen.

Glenn

Glenn, you made my evening. Ordering tomorrow!

Fred

Glenn, you made my evening. Ordering tomorrow!

Fred

I have had a BW sample sitting around for about 4 months. I dug it out lately to compare to some Da-Lite samples I just received. The BW had yellowed significantly over the last 4 months. It had been in some sunlight during that time.

I have to wonder just how UV stable some of these white vinyls are ...

My current leanings are towards a Da-Lite pearlescent. It appears smoother and a touch gray. Smoother is better for HDTV or any HD sources I have displayed.

k

Any of you guys tried this projector in a constant height 2.35:1 setup ? or have any plans to ?

Has anyone here who owns the H710 purchased the new Toshiba HD-DVD player?
If so, have you experienced any connection problems going from HDMI to DVI?

Well, it looks like I have to wait until tomorrow for my 710. Fedex made an attempt at delivering, but seemed to have left as fast as they knocked on the door. Maybe they don't realize that life isn't like the movies where the door is opened immediately after the door bell has rung.

Damn.

The Fed Ex near me allows you to pick it up at their center the same day of the attempt. Is it close to you?

Has anyone here who owns the H710 purchased the new Toshiba HD-DVD player?
If so, have you experienced any connection problems going from HDMI to DVI?


I have the 710/ HD-DVD combo and have no problems at all. And all I can say about it is it looks fabulous. :eek: I use the HD colorspace setting.


Funny thing I had DTV out yesterday upgrading all 4 of my HD receivers and the dish to the Mpeg 4 conversion. I warming up the projector with Doom in the HD-DVD player, when he come inside and seen it he about $hit. He said of all the setups he has seen, he has never seen anything with as much clarity, color accuracy and detail. Then he asked me how much I paid for the 710 and said he is definitely going to buy one. :D Keep in mind this guy does nothing but DTV service calls, so you know he has got to be doing 4 to 5 installs a day, and see's a lot of good HT setups.

Dale

Has anyone here who owns the H710 purchased the new Toshiba HD-DVD player?
If so, have you experienced any connection problems going from HDMI to DVI?No connection problems in "Theatre Ken".

I use the HD colorspace setting.Although this seems like it would be correct, most transfers are still being done with SMPTE-C phosphor monitors.


Ken Whitcomb

No problem here, well ok the big problem is there isnt enough movies :D

Brad

HD-DVD/710 owners, how does SD DVD look upconverted through the HD-A1? Could this be a one box solution for both HD-DVD and SD DVD upconvert?

Adam

I have only watched a few minutes of DVE video demo it looks good but I really havent watched enough say how good it is. I will try to look at some standard DVD's in the next few days.

Brad

HD-DVD/710 owners, how does SD DVD look upconverted through the HD-A1? Could this be a one box solution for both HD-DVD and SD DVD upconvert?
With so few HD-DVD titles, I've spent a lot of time watching SD DVDs. My somewhat subjective opinion is that the HD-A1 does a better job of upconverting than the Denon 2910 that I used previously -- it certainly doesn't have the macro-blocking problems of the Denon.

Even if HD-DVD doesn't survive the format war, the HD-A1 makes a great player (other than the long boot up and disc recognition times).

The only issue with the HDMI is that one should power on the projector before turning on the HD-A1 player

Ken thanks for the info.

Dale

The Fed Ex near me allows you to pick it up at their center the same day of the attempt. Is it close to you?


This is the weird part. My projector is being shipped out of their Richfield location which is about 40 minutes from where I live. There's a Fedex hub about 5 minutes away from me. I don't know what the difference is between the two hubs. I've picked up packages from the closer location before.

Regardless of the drive, I would have still gone to pick it up, however, the woman I spoke with on the phone said that their counter closes at 6:00 and the truck that was delivering wouldn't be finished with its route until 8:00. :(

Tomorrow I'm going to leave a note on the door to keep knocking until someone answers because someone is home. Our dogs barking would be a good clue that you've knocked loud enough. (I guess I'll leave that last part out.)

Well, at least I now have a working HD OTA tuner as of today, so it's not a total loss. :cool:

Kevin, quit talking about the HD-DVD player already. I'm trying very hard to not buy one and hold off for the next generation of units at least. But, when I hear things like "it upscales better than the Denon 2910" and "it certainly doesn't have the macroblocking problems" I'm ready to run up to the store! :D

Kevin ;) good to hear the new HD does a nice job of upscaling I was skeptical ;)

but not sure what audio gear you have ? but how is the audio/soundtrack/dialog etc.. when playing movies compared to the 2910

Honu, Congratulations, your post on this thread is number 710. I am enjoying my Samsung, I hope evrybody is as well. ;)

It's true. I just measured a screen sample of BW material with a spectroradiometer that can read light from the lens of the PJ or from the screen. ISF allows a tolerance of .0040 in x and y in the colorimeters approved for measuring and adjusting a PJs greyscale during calibration.

The Carada BW material shifted the greyscale by .0001 in x and by .0004 in y when compared to the measurements taken directly from the lens of the PJ. A shift of .0010 is barely perceptible. Anything less cannot be seen. To put this in perspective many top notch PJs have deviations of .0030 or more from D65 at some point in their greyscales at 20 IRE or above.

Light fell off by 12% at the edges of the screen as compared to the middle (seating distance 1.5 x screen width). The greyscale measurement at the sides was off by .0004 in x and .0000 in y as compared with the center of the screen.

I also took measurements of the center of the screen from 30 degree and 45 degree angles. The greatest color shift that I found compared to the face-on readings was only .0013 in x and .0012 in y. The luminance (brightness) fell off by 10% at 30 degrees and by 15% at 45 degrees.

This is supurb performance. Have no fear in purchasing this screen.

Glenn

Great news--I'm going with this screen, too (but at 110").

About that Carada Brilliant White screen, when I go to the Carada website, I see Criterion or Precision, but not Brilliant White. Is Brilliant White one of Criterion or Precision? Also, what about pulldown screens (my only choice at this moment)? Would I have to buy the screen from Carada and then a pulldown system from someone else?

About that Carada Brilliant White screen, when I go to the Carada website, I see Criterion or Precision, but not Brilliant White. Is Brilliant White one of Criterion or Precision? Also, what about pulldown screens (my only choice at this moment)? Would I have to buy the screen from Carada and then a pulldown system from someone else?

Criterion and Precision are just the frame types. You can get brilliant white material on any of their screens.

How many people using this projector are also using a SA8300 DVR? Anyone notice banding with this STB?

I've read through this thread, and didn't find exactly what I needed to know. But I apoligize if this has already been asked.

I'm getting a CP2 115" screen. I know JK has said that this will work with up to 120" the studiotek 130, which I believe is a 1 gain screen. The SR CP2 is .95 gain, so This should just make it, no?

And my mian question is, how many screenwidths back must one be before screen door disappears on this unit?

Sit no closer than 1.5 times the screens actual width (not diagonal width) with a 720P DLP. Screen door with this PJ is determined by the DLP chip and will be the same as with other 720P DLPs.

The STudiotek 130 is rated at 1.3 gain. It is likely that the Sammy will not be bright enough to drive a 115" CP2 screen. Keep in mind that bulbs gradually lose half of their brightness over their lives. If you start out with an image that is just bright enough, in 500 hours it will be noticably dimmer.

I consistently see PJ's coming no where near their rated lumens output. I am going to be measuring the light output from a 710 in a couple of days, because I am considering a 120"D Carada BW and I fear that its gain of 1.4 will not be sufficient.

What I recommend is that a PJ like the Sammy produce at least 14-16 fL minimum when new on a given screen with the PJ in low lamp. If so then you can expect the PJ / screen combo will still provide 8 or 9 fL in high lamp mode near the end of the bulb's life. To me, 8 or 9 fL is the lowest level that is still adequate. Below that it gets harder and harder to see the shadow detail. Note that I said 8-9 fL is adequate, not ideal.

Glenn

I am going to be measuring the light output from a 710 in a couple of days, because I am considering a 120"D Carada BW and I fear that its gain of 1.4 will not be sufficient.

This problem has been solved already by Tryg. There are two solutions, pick the one you like:

(1) Dalite HP for low PJ mounts
(2) Vutec Silverscreen for high PJ mounts

With so much BS in these forums it's hard to see the "signal" from the "noise".

Sound and Vision Magazine mini (micro?) review: S-H710AE review page (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1408&page_number=8)

Guys-

I've tried to keep up with the 710 threads, have searched (or at least tried to) and have come up with no answers to my question:

My 710 appears to have died. It was working fine 2 days ago, I turned off the power when done viewing and tonight it would not power up. Of course, this was to be the "Sneak Preview" night of my HT so that really sucked. There are no indicator lights when the power is on, no standby lights, no fan noise, nothing.

Troubleshooting things I tried: the projector is on a dedicated circuit, I swapped that circuit with a known good one - no projector; the projector is on it's own outlet, I plugged something else into that outlet and it worked fine; I plugged the power cable into a known good outlet, no projector; the power cord seems to be good but I can try to test that if it is a standard computer power plug, I'm not sure.

So, my question is this: is there some magic button combination that factory resets the project or some fuse location I can access to see if something blew? I have had this thing mounted only since last Sunday and watched a couple of movies on Wednesday so I'm really really confused right now.

Any help you guys can give would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks,
-chad

How many people using this projector are also using a SA8300 DVR? Anyone notice banding with this STB?
using a DVI/HDMI cable I have not noticed any yet ? but I did notice on a Caribbean show some blockies but they are not that bad and also noticed some blockies for a sec in the sky on lost

Guys-

I've tried to keep up with the 710 threads, have searched (or at least tried to) and have come up with no answers to my question:

My 710 appears to have died. It was working fine 2 days ago, I turned off the power when done viewing and tonight it would not power up. Of course, this was to be the "Sneak Preview" night of my HT so that really sucked. There are no indicator lights when the power is on, no standby lights, no fan noise, nothing.

Troubleshooting things I tried: the projector is on a dedicated circuit, I swapped that circuit with a known good one - no projector; the projector is on it's own outlet, I plugged something else into that outlet and it worked fine; I plugged the power cable into a known good outlet, no projector; the power cord seems to be good but I can try to test that if it is a standard computer power plug, I'm not sure.

So, my question is this: is there some magic button combination that factory resets the project or some fuse location I can access to see if something blew? I have had this thing mounted only since last Sunday and watched a couple of movies on Wednesday so I'm really really confused right now.

Any help you guys can give would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks,
-chad

Chad did you try another power cord or just reseat the plug. I had a bad one with mine {cheap 12 ' one from rat shak} and swapped it out and everything was fine after that. The male end on the projector is not a very good connector and is kind of hard to get it to seat all the way in. Hopefully that is all that is wrong.

Dale

Chad did you try another power cord or just reseat the plug. I had a bad one with mine {cheap 12 ' one from rat shak} and swapped it out and everything was fine after that. The male end on the projector is not a very good connector and is kind of hard to get it to seat all the way in. Hopefully that is all that is wrong.

Dale

Dale-

I just checked this with 2 cords I had and still no luck. I've emailed and left a voicemail with Jason@AVS so maybe he knows something. I can't tell you how painful it was after 7 months of construction and 6 people over for the preview to have the projector not even power up. :(

Anybody have any other ideas? Are there fuses inside the case or anything like that?

-chad

A quick update...

I pulled the projector off the ceiling and took apart the housing to check the fuse (which was fine). In my frustration, I gave up and reassembled/remounted the PJ and for a lark, plugged it back in.

"And behold, the 710 owner said 'Let there be light' and there was light, and it was good."

No idea why it decided to stop working and certainly no idea why it decided to start working again. I'm still hoping I can get it replaced so it doesn't happen again. Thanks for everyone's help in the forum and PMs. I really do appreciate the effort.

-chad

A quick update...

I pulled the projector off the ceiling and took apart the housing to check the fuse (which was fine). In my frustration, I gave up and reassembled/remounted the PJ and for a lark, plugged it back in.

"And behold, the 710 owner said 'Let there be light' and there was light, and it was good."

No idea why it decided to stop working and certainly no idea why it decided to start working again. I'm still hoping I can get it replaced so it doesn't happen again. Thanks for everyone's help in the forum and PMs. I really do appreciate the effort.

-chad

@carpecervisi

If you just completed your home theater I'll bet your outlet wiring is not 100% solid. Remove the cover on the outlet and check to see the connections are 100%. I had 2 outlets out of 30 be intermittent after I completed my lower level build out.

k

In looking at the pics of the 710, it looks like the fan exhaust comes out the front; is that correct? If so, I presume this means that with a ceiling mount, one can place it very close to the back wall; is that also correct? Tx, Bill

In looking at the pics of the 710, it looks like the fan exhaust comes out the front; is that correct? If so, I presume this means that with a ceiling mount, one can place it very close to the back wall; is that also correct? Tx, Bill

Yes and yes.

Jeff

Chad

Here is a link look at the bottom were the 700 stopped. The internal cable may need to be moved. You may want to take a look.


http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/505samsung/index1.html Look here they talk about "just before the review was over"

Brad

Sorry :rolleyes: read the setup area

"When we first turned the projector on and tried to display an image, the colors were totally messed up, with serious flickering and false contouring. A call to Kane's office revealed that this has been known to happen on occasion, and that a hard reset (power off, disconnect power cord, wait a minute, reconnect power cord, power on) usually solves the problem. They also mentioned that the wiring harness inside the projector can become dislodged during shipping, and that once the harness is secured and the hard reset is accomplished, the problem doesn't recur. For us, the hard reset did the trick"



http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/505samsung/index1.html

Brad

In looking at the pics of the 710, it looks like the fan exhaust comes out the front; is that correct?

When the projector is ceiling mounting, and you are looking towards the screen, the projector pulls in air from the right side and vents it out the front, angled to the left.

Jeff, Kevin: Thanks for the reply. Sounds good for a ceiling mount right up close to the back wall.

This question has been asked a couple of times earlier in this thread, but no answer was given;

Can someone please tell me the diameter of the lens on the 710? :)

When the projector is ceiling mounting, and you are looking towards the screen, the projector pulls in air from the right side and vents it out the front, angled to the left.

Kevin,

I just played a DVD through my laptop with the projector set to PC mode. The laptop was set to 1280x1020 display resolution at 60Hz and the Samsung produced an awesome picture, I would say even better than my Oppo DVD player did through DVI.

My question is that the PC mode shows the true widescreen format of the movie (I believe it was 2.35 AR) while the Oppo/DVI setup produced it's best picture in "Full" mode which looked like 16:9 to me. Is there a way to get true widescreen out of this PJ from the DVD player? Am I missing something obvious?

John

@carpecervisi

If you just completed your home theater I'll bet your outlet wiring is not 100% solid. Remove the cover on the outlet and check to see the connections are 100%. I had 2 outlets out of 30 be intermittent after I completed my lower level build out.

k

kevivoe-
I ruled that out, thankfully. Man, if I would have had to tear up the ceiling, I'd be crying.

Chad

Here is a link look at the bottom were the 700 stopped. The internal cable may need to be moved. You may want to take a look.

That is pretty interesting. What I ended up doing was pulling off the case and the top piece of gear inside where the internal DVI cable connection is to check the fuse. The fuse was fine so I buttoned everything else back up. Just for the hell of it, I put power back to it and low and behold, the damned thing fired right up.

It's very possible that the wiring harness was the issue and that when I reassembled it, I inadvertently corrected the problem...but it doesn't give me much of a "warm fuzzy". I think I'd still rather have the PJ replaced than have the gremlins get it again at the next showing.

Thanks everyone for the help!
-chad

Chad

Iam glad your up and running again.

Brad

How many people using this projector are also using a SA8300 DVR? Anyone notice banding with this STB?

I see gradient banding with the 8300. I have to try a DVD via DVI and also another projector to see what is going on this this.

I am seriously considering a SilverStar screen for this projector. Does anyone here have some experience with this combination ?? I am not really looking for blindingly bright images but I have had many projectors in the past ten years or so and they all get a huge drop off in brightness late in there lamp life. As good as this projector seems to be out of the box I am curious to here some reactions with 200-300 hours on the bulb.

I only have about 15 hours on my lamp so I can't say anything about the how it looks dim. However, I have a 92" Silver Star and I think the picture I'm getting is fantastic. It's pretty bright right now. But, not too bright, IMO.

I am seriously considering a SilverStar screen for this projector. Does anyone here have some experience with this combination ?? I am not really looking for blindingly bright images but I have had many projectors in the past ten years or so and they all get a huge drop off in brightness late in there lamp life. As good as this projector seems to be out of the box I am curious to here some reactions with 200-300 hours on the bulb.

Silverstar appears to get the raves (and I am sure deservingly so) but I went for the cheaper Dalite HighPower 2.8 gain 119" diag and saved a couple of thousand. PJ is mounted on rear-wall shelf 7' above floor and 17.5' in front of screen. Image is plenty bright but not too bright.

Let us know your silverstar experience if you go for it.

John

I see gradient banding with the 8300. I have to try a DVD via DVI and also another projector to see what is going on this this.

How often? is it bad?

This question has been asked a couple of times earlier in this thread, but no answer was given;

Can someone please tell me the diameter of the lens on the 710? :)

I dont have anything to measure it but its about 90mm+ maybe a touch larger I guesstimate ?
I just put up my 77MM filter to it and it looked about 15-20 mm larger ?
I know thats not exact but I dont have my good ruler as its in storage still as we moved recently otherwise I would give you a exact measurement so not sure if my guess helps at all ???



hope someone can do this for you :)

Just finished setting up my HT with the sammy, Dalite HCCV & universal mount.

Gathered most of the information related to ideal installation settings from this thread. This thread is simply amazing with tonnes of useful info for someone who wants to be spun up on this pj.

One follow-up question I had ...does the quality of the DVI cable really matter when you are routing digital signals? I am using a 25 ft DVI cable to route my DVD signals to the pj through the attic above (with an HDMI-DVI adapter at the DVD player). To shave off some costs I purchased an unbranded cable from a local store (25 ft of DVI with ferrite ends cost be less than $40). Was wondering if there would be a perceptible difference in the picture quality if I were to buy an expensive (ala monster cable) version of the DVI.

Thanks again for all the great info posted here.

One follow-up question I had ...does the quality of the DVI cable really matter when you are routing digital signals? I am using a 25 ft DVI cable to route my DVD signals to the pj through the attic above (with an HDMI-DVI adapter at the DVD player). To shave off some costs I purchased an unbranded cable from a local store (25 ft of DVI with ferrite ends cost be less than $40). Was wondering if there would be a perceptible difference in the picture quality if I were to buy an expensive (ala monster cable) version of the DVI.

If your not seeing any artifacts on your screen you are good. DVI/HDMI is digital. Either you get a good connection or you don't, there isn't a gray area.

Do cables make a difference? That is an argument that will never really be settled. My two cents is that they do for analog signals but much less so for digital.

My experience with DVI/HDMI is that either it works wonderfully, you get green sparkles, or you get nothing. I agree that for long lengths, quality counts, or maybe a more expensive cable will last longer, but if it works, I don't think spending more money on a DVI cable gives you a better picture.

I've got a $100 DVI cable and a $10 one. I've used them both with the Accupel signal generator and the multi-burst pattern (tests resolution and artifacting) to see if there was any difference -- not to my eyes.

That being said, there are worse ways to spend your money than buying quality cables, and I tend to error on the side of quality since once the cable is up in the ceiling, I don't ever want to have to replace it.

I dont have anything to measure it but its about 90mm+ maybe a touch larger I guesstimate ?
I just put up my 77MM filter to it and it looked about 15-20 mm larger ?
I know thats not exact but I dont have my good ruler as its in storage still as we moved recently otherwise I would give you a exact measurement so not sure if my guess helps at all ???

Thanks Honu, that is very helpful. :)

I'm trying to determine if the Sammy is a viable option in a 2.35:1 CH setup. Knowing the lens diameter will help me determine which Anamorphic Lenses will and won't work with it.

Do cables make a difference? That is an argument that will never really be settled. My two cents is that they do for analog signals but much less so for digital.

My experience with DVI/HDMI is that either it works wonderfully, you get green sparkles, or you get nothing. I agree that for long lengths, quality counts, or maybe a more expensive cable will last longer, but if it works, I don't think spending more money on a DVI cable gives you a better picture.

I've got a $100 DVI cable and a $10 one. I've used them both with the Accupel signal generator and the multi-burst pattern (tests resolution and artifacting) to see if there was any difference -- not to my eyes.

That being said, there are worse ways to spend your money than buying quality cables, and I tend to error on the side of quality since once the cable is up in the ceiling, I don't ever want to have to replace it.
Thanks for the feedback. I guess that answers it for me. I am happy with what I see with DVI with the cable I have. Just wanted to get this issue settled.

This problem has been solved already by Tryg. There are two solutions, pick the one you like:

(1) Dalite HP for low PJ mounts
(2) Vutec Silverscreen for high PJ mounts

With so much BS in these forums it's hard to see the "signal" from the "noise".

It sure is. You neglected to add that the Silverstar MSRPs for $3000 and the Carada for $1000 in a 122"D size. Also, some people see an objectionable sheen on the Silverstar (I'm not one of them). The Silverstar is not as color neutral as the Carada either. So it is not really the perfect solution that you have implied, now is it?

Glenn

It sure is. You neglected to add that the Silverstar MSRPs for $3000 and the Carada for $1000 in a 122"D size. Also, some people see an objectionable sheen on the Silverstar (I'm not one of them). The Silverstar is not as color neutral as the Carada either. So it is not really the perfect solution that you have implied, now is it?

Glenn

Exactly!

It sure is. You neglected to add that the Silverstar MSRPs for $3000 and the Carada for $1000 in a 122"D size. Also, some people see an objectionable sheen on the Silverstar (I'm not one of them). The Silverstar is not as color neutral as the Carada either. So it is not really the perfect solution that you have implied, now is it?

Glenn

Sure, but do you want big GAIN or do you want little bitty gain? And big GAIN can only be had by very few screens. HP is the cheapest, that's what I got. It works well with the Sammy.

John

Personally, I'd rather have no gain. I think you'd get a better picture.