I've just read a review of this Projector on Projectors Central. I had never heard of this one before...While reading the review I almost thought it was a joke, the reviewer seems so impressed, it is almost unbelievable...!

Has anyone seen this PJ in action? What do you think of it? How does it compare to other PJs using the same technology (HD2+)? I think I will be watching closely for info about this one. Even the lens shift seems impressive...unusual for a DLP within this price range!

I have seen it and it's awesome. Right out of the box, it looks better than most <$10k projectors after they've been calibrated. The manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) seems to be $3,499, as that is what reputable internet dealers have it listed at. The price is way too low for the performance, but projectors sell largely on specs and this one "only" has an HD2+ chip, not a DC3. HOWEVER, it has been noted that sources at TI and Coretronics (makers of more DLP light engines than anyone in the world) say that the conversion algorithms for the DC3 are not perfect. Therefore, while it does have better contrast and saturation, the DC3 cannot do as accurate colors as the "regular" HD2+. A lot of people can't tell if colors are slightly off, though, so many people will prefer the image of the DC3.

Referring to other HD2+ projectors, it definitely separates itself from the pack. If you have a higher-end HD2+ projector that offers all the adjustments needed for a full ISF C3 calibration, such a projector will make a similar image after calibration. Samsung seems to have upgraded the lens and the firmware from the last generation, and few other HD2+ projectors will be able to match the black levels this unit can generate. It also looks expensive and classy. I have not seen another projector look as good without spending another $2k - $4k.

Thanks for your very detailed informations...of course the price of this PJ makes me want to compare it to the Optoma H78DC3. From a color calibration point of view, the Samsung seems to be a winner. But absolute black levels and shadow details should be better with the Optoma, since it has a DC3 Chip.

Did I interpret your post correctly?

Does anyone know where the vent fan is. If it's in the front, it just may work for me. In the back, it won't.

It is on the front.

Could anyone tell me if the Samsung is mounted between the top and bottom of the screen like Sharp,or above the screen like Infocus.Thanks. Sam Zeoli

Projector Central rates the Samsung at 465 ANSI lumens when set up in "theater mode," where the colors are most accurate and the contrast is the highest. Projector Central also rates the Epson PowerLite Cinema 550 at just 240 ANSI lumens in its "theater mode." So the Samsung is actually almost twice as bright as the Epson, which is noted as a "bright" projector, in the set-up that most videophiles will want to use. :)

PS Projector Central rates the Optoma H79 at 450 ANSI lumens with "video-optimized settings."

IB

Could anyone tell me if the Samsung is mounted between the top and bottom of the screen like Sharp,or above the screen like Infocus.Thanks. Sam Zeoli

This PJ has a vertical lens shift, so you should be able to place it conveniently where you wish without using keystoning.

for those who have actually seen the projector in action? Could you please tell us if this projector is work the $$ over the recently released Optoma H72 (which also have rave reviews at projector central - disregarding intalling difficulties). ?

I have the 700 so I can comment on it compared to an H79, but I can't comment on the H72 as I have not seen it.

The H79 and even Sharp 12000 have visible contouring when looking at a smooth gradient. You can see this pretty well on a gray ramp from AVIA. The 700 has a smooth gradient when looking at the same clip.

The Sharp 12000 has a lower black level and higher contrast ratio with its adjustable IRIS in high contrast mode.

If this projector has so many positives, why all the buzz about Optoma H79 and Benq 8720? Why not this one.

If this projector has so many positives, why all the buzz about Optoma H79 and Benq 8720? Why not this one.

For one, Samsung doesn't have the visibility in front projection like either BenQ or Optoma.

Second, the product was just recently reviewed for the first time

I'll also speculate that there was little build-up hype, like there is for many pre-release projectors, because on paper (HD2+ at $4K), it doesn't appear to be a particularly good value. High value DC3 models, and those sporting the new dual-mode chip are all the rage.

This is the projector that was designed in part by Joe Kane for Samsung. It's calibrated performance is superb, especially in color rendition. It also has some really cool calibration tricks.

For anyone that has gone to Joe's demo at CEDIA the last two years this is the PJ he's been showing.

For anyone that has gone to Joe's demo at CEDIA the last two years this is the PJ he's been showing.


Do you mean this PJ has been around for two years? Things change so fast...


Can any Samsung H710AE owner comment about how this PJ compare to the H78DC3-H79 from optoma ? The samsung seems VERY bright but I am mostly interested in contrast and shadow details. It is probably not on par with those DC3 projectors, but who knows...

What Stef said. I am very interested in this. I was considering the Benq 8720 and the Optoma H79 but this seems awfully good. So, if anyone has an opinion, please chime in.

Does AVS carry this?

Iam getting ready to get a new projector my CRT is on it way out. Iam interested in getting a bigger screen, the one Iam using now is studiotek 130 80". Iam going with the 710AE I have total light control in my room. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/39383

Size 102" to 104" diagonal is the max I want to go. I would like to get a screen for the 710AE and be able to use it in the furture with a 1080p projector hopefully 3 chipper. So the High Contrast Grey would be nice for a future projector but will make the 710AE to dim?

Thanks for the Help
Brad

Do you mean this PJ has been around for two years? Things change so fast...


Can any Samsung H710AE owner comment about how this PJ compare to the H78DC3-H79 from optoma ? The samsung seems VERY bright but I am mostly interested in contrast and shadow details. It is probably not on par with those DC3 projectors, but who knows...

I've seen all these pjs and what I can say is that the 710AE is rated at 2800:1 contrast (maximum for HD2+). Black levels are good, but black levels on a DC3 pj e.g. H79 are better BUT (and this is a big BUT), shadow DETAIL on 710AE is superior to any DC3 pj I have seen, even Samsung 800AE.

Okay then Mr. Mountaineer, which would you buy for yourself?

I have the 700 so I can comment on it compared to an H79, but I can't comment on the H72 as I have not seen it.

The H79 and even Sharp 12000 have visible contouring when looking at a smooth gradient. You can see this pretty well on a gray ramp from AVIA. The 700 has a smooth gradient when looking at the same clip.

The Sharp 12000 has a lower black level and higher contrast ratio with its adjustable IRIS in high contrast mode.

Do you think some of that could be do to the increased contrast and thus presumably increased gamma of the 12000?

Asked in a different way, each step in input signal from (16,16,16) to (235,235,235) into 12000 should create more actual change in output lumens. More contrast would make subtle gradients harder to create?

-Mr. Wigggles

More contrast would make subtle gradients harder to create?

With that said, would you expect the gradient to change based on the IRIS setting of the 12000? I will talk with Kris and see if this is something we can do.

Okay then Mr. Mountaineer, which would you buy for yourself?

jkirk, I am pretty finicky about front projection, but at $3499 with its filmlike PQ it's the Samsung, hands down. If I actually had an appropriate room in my house, I would buy it.

Thanks Mountaineer, good straightforward answer. Now if only AVS sold it.

I saw it at Electrograph's show in So Cal. Oh my! It's like a revelation every time I see it. The image had a 3D quality I normally associate with a high end 3-chip DLP that has been calibrated. Some of the comments people made while I was standing at the tent:

"It's a 3-chip (DLP), right?"
"Is this Samsung's new 1080p projector?"
"I don't like these projectors that cost over 10k. Real people can't afford them." (sorry, dude, but it's not even close)

stef2 - yes, you did interpret my post correctly. Any good DC3 projector will have an edge in black levels, and potential contrast, but not necessarily in shadow detail, as noted by Mountaineer. After seeing the 710 again, I have to say the black levels are better than any HD2+ pj I've seen, possibly better than some DC3 models. Even better is how TRUE the blacks and grays are. Not a hint of color, unless it's in the source material that way.

jkirk - I asked Joe Kane your question for you! Apparently, this was the first product Samsung has released that wasn't initiated by the marketing department. It was actually developed and released before the marketing department even knew it existed. Now they don't know how to market it. He also said everything that bubbawilly pointed out in his post. AND - I'm sure AVS could source it, or do a power buy with TVAuthority. (hint, hint, hint)

Kris Deering - If you like this projector calibrated, you should see it out of the box. The first one I saw was pulled straight from a sealed box and looked better than most calibrated projectors I have seen. Uncalibrated, it is never more than 10% off of 6500k at any point along the grayscale ramp. Calibration brings it under 5% variance at any point. Those are the numbers Joe Kane was throwing out, at least.

I've never seen the H79 and the SP-H710AE side-by-side, with the same source. That would be the only way to draw a proper comparison. However, I did get to see the H79 at a trade show. The 710 seems to have more "depth" to the image and more accurate colors, while the H79 (as I remember) would have a slight edge in black levels. They are both excellent representatives of their TI chips. If price were no object, it would be a tough choice, but I'd still go with the Samsung. Factoring in price, it's Samsung all the way.

I still love my Brillian 720p RPTV, but I'm trying to decide if I can a) fit a 100" - 110" screen above it, and b) how I can get the wife to understand the need for an even larger display... :D

Does anyone know where the vent fan is. If it's in the front, it just may work for me. In the back, it won't.

Front exhaust makes hushboxes harder to configure if you are ducting the heat out

Front exhaust makes hushboxes harder to configure if you are ducting the heat out
You really shouldn't need a hushbox with this PJ, though.

I order my 710AE last night cant wait to get it. I posted in this thread about screen white or grey with out any response. For those of you that have seen this projector what type of screen did you see it on?

Thanks for the help

Brad

I'm also ordering one from AVS and would like similar screen advice for a mostly darkened room. Need an electric tensioned. Love Steward but a little pricey.

Brad

If you are using a 6' wide 16x9, then the Grayhawk RS is a good choice. If you are using > 6' wide, then a Studiotek130 is a good choice. At least those are Joe's recommendations based on trade show demos. He usually sets up a 72" wide GH RS and 87" wide ST130 side-by-side for his demos.

jkirk, I understand AVS is going to carry the 710AE (maybe they already are).

Stewart makes a great screen, but I've also seen it on Da-Lite and Vutech screens and it looks great on those, too.

stef2,

thanks for posting about this projector. i have been considering the H79 and the 8720 but I have to admit being very intrigued by the H710AE.

would love to hear more comments from people who have seen all three projectors or those who have the Samsung installed and calibrated (although it appears to be pretty close out of the box).


gup

Thanks Mountaineer. You're welcome at my dinner table anytime.

stef2,

thanks for posting about this projector. i have been considering the H79 and the 8720 but I have to admit being very intrigued by the H710AE.

would love to hear more comments from people who have seen all three projectors or those who have the Samsung installed and calibrated (although it appears to be pretty close out of the box).


gup

Guptown, I've seen 'em all and the one that gets my vote for overall pq is the 710AE.

One of the reasons I like it better has to do with differences between TI's Darkchip-3 (DC3) and HD2+ DMDs. It's one of those cases where reading the spec sheet isn't going to tell you the whole story.

Long story short, while DC3 has more contrast and better black levels than the HD2+, the HD2+ has finer color gradations within the visible area most of us are sensitive to, in other words for most people colors are going to look more saturated and richer with an HD2+ DMD than with the DC3. It is a matter of how the eye's rods and cones perceive the light. Now, some people may be more sensitive to contrast than color gradation, and they will naturally prefer a DC3 machine. For most of us, though, the DC3 does a lot of its color grading/grayscale in very dark and very bright areas that we don't really see very well. One result is that the 710AE does a superb job in shadow detail, better to my eyes than any DC3 machine.

So it's a matter of color bit depth and HD2+ is better than DC3 in that regard.

When you combine that fact with the 710AE's superior optics, drive electronics and software, you have a winner.

sspears

My screen is a 80"wide 92" diagonal studiotek 130 16x9. I would like to go bigger. I was wondering about the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 going 100" or 102 diaganol they have gotten really good reviews.

Thanks
Brad

From what I've read on this thread so far, this Samsung PJ seems quite impressive! I was considering buying a H79 but the samsung seems to be a better choice according to my taste. Placement will also be a lot easier in my HT room thanks to the great lens shift...and as a bonus, it seems to be less expensive than the H79...and even the H78Dc3!

Could anyone point me to the proper AVS person or place to get a price quote for this PJ?

I think I've found my next PJ...

From what I've read on this thread so far, this Samsung PJ seems quite impressive! I was considering buying a H79 but the samsung seems to be a better choice according to my taste. Placement will also be a lot easier in my HT room thanks to the great lens shift...and as a bonus, it seems to be less expensive than the H79...and even the H78Dc3!

Could anyone point me to the proper AVS person or place to get a price quote for this PJ?

I think I've found my next PJ...

Stef, I thought AVS was going to have a power buy on the Samsung, but here's a link where you can find e-tailers:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/ProAV/HomeTheaterProjectors/SPH710AEMXXAA.asp

jkirk, I understand AVS is going to carry the 710AE (maybe they already are).


Alan, can you confirm that AVS is carrying this product.

Thanks.

Hello all, first time post. This thread has prompted me to buy the h710AE and I
will get it early next week. This is my first projector, i hope I can figure out which side goes up!

The Samsung SP-H700AE, the predecessor of the currently discussed SP-H710AE, was reviewed in the May '05 issue of Home Theater magazine, and here are some pertinent measurements vis-a-vis the Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II, which was just reviewed by the same magazine using the same instrumentation and screen, an 87-inch wide, 1.0 gain Da-Lite Da-Mat screen :
FULL FIELD 100-IRE white } 15.92 foot-lamberts > Samsung
} 7.263 foot-lamberts > Sharp
FULL FIELD 0-IRE black } 0.011 ft-L > Samsung
} 0.002 ft-L > Sharp
......These figures are for best black level.................
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FULL FIELD 100-IRE white } 20.83 ft-L > Samsung
} 22.09 ft-L > Sharp
FULL FIELD 0-IRE black } 0.014 ft-L > Samsung
} 0.016 ft-L > Sharp
.......These figures are for brightest image...............
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Sharp also has a "medium" mode which measured 11.6 ft-L (FULL FIELD/white) and 0.005 ft-L (FULL FIELD/ black) and a "high-contrast" mode, measured at 10.6 ft-L // 0.003 ft-L ....So the Sharp does offer a few more options.......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEST CONTRAST RATIO } 1488.1 Samsung
} 3632.1 Sharp
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSI CONTRAST RATIO } 370.1 Samsung
} 525.1 Sharp
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both units received ratings of "excellent" for DC RESTORATION and for COLOR DECODER
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Out -of-the-box" measured gray scale tracked very close to D6500 for both units and calibrated even closer afterwards.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Samsung had excellent processing, picked up the 3:2 sequence very quickly and processed incorrect 3:2 sequences and video with equal dexterity.
The Sharp picked up the 3:2 sequence quickly, with video processing only a little better than average which displayed some "jaggies"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After calibration the Samsung was described as "downright impressive/ with an accurate & almost relaxing image/colors, midtones and skintones all looking very realistic".... Some "steps" observed in test signals for gray ramp, although rarely noticed in actual video material.....The reviewer mentioned the "disappointing black level" measured, however i am not sure exactly which TI chip the SP-H700AE uses, it could very well be the DC2 instead of the DC2+ which is apparently used by the current model, the SP-H710AE.
The Sharp had an extremely detailed image with one of the smoothest gray ramps ever seen on a digital display and "blacks" that were indeed black, although they were still higher than with a CRT...The Sharp had one of the best contrast ratios ever measured in a projector, with a "punchy" and "totally watchable" image.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THe Samsung had a very unique and interesting "trick up its sleeve", so to speak : instead of measuring several different levels of gray and making a series of adjustments, a technician just measures a red field, a green field, a blue field and then a white field; The technician then enters the light level (in foot-lamberts) and x,y coordinates for each color into the projector, and the projector automatically adjusts the gray scale, gamma and color points...."Incredibly easy and accurate", as noticed by the reviewer !
Also, even the color wheel used in this projector appears to be unique, as the RED segment has GREEN/BLUE in it, the BLUE segment has RED/GREEN in it, and the GREEN segment has RED/BLUE in it, therefore allowing the technician to adjust the color points by playing around with the amounts of R/G/B available for each individual color-segment on the color wheel, aiming to bring each primary color closer to its correct point; This "allows for extremely accurate color reproduction, regardless of any minor color shift the screen may introduce" !
The color temperature of the Samsung relative to the color points of the display's red, green and blue color-filter-wheel segments were measured as being extremely close to those specified by SMPTE, as opposed to most other digital displays measured by the same magazine, making it another "rarity" !
I can't think of any other DLP projector that offers similar color adjustability by means of such unique color wheel, or am i wrong ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards >>>>> Marcos

Navigating around the samsung US website for this product isn't too easy and there isn't much information, but I did find some more information on the Samsung uk website you all might be interested in. At least you can see what the back of the unit looks like.

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/projectors/hometheatreprojector/sph710aemxedc.asp?page=Features


http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/projectors/hometheatreprojector/files/h710.pdf

Both units received ratings of "excellent" for DC RESTORATION

???

Could owners of the Samsung H710AE comment about its fan noise? Since published specs seem to be so hard to interpret...How far do you sit from the PJ? does the noise bother you during silent or almost silent scenes? How does the noise vary from high to low lamp power?

......"DC RESTORATION" : described by the same magazine as "an archaic term that tells you whether the display is floating its black level. An "excellent" rating means the black level is steady, regardless of average picture level (APL). A "poor" rating means the display crushes black when the APL goes up"...................................

Yes. I just thought it was funny, because that term applies to CRT displays. Sorry, my sense of humor has become slightly techified. :)

Thanks for the info from the review, MCaugusto. It would be interesting to see the results of the same tests on the 710, since the generational changes were primarily to address the one weakness of the 700 - black levels.

BRADH - At the Electrograph show, Joe was showing it on the Stewart StudioTek 130. Everything looked marvelous. I'd be tempted to go with a high contrast gray screen just to deepen the blacks a little. Whites were almost too bright, but with no crush in the bright shadow details, so I'd say it wouldn't make the whites look too dirty. I know a couple who used the Vutec SilverStar due to high ambient light in their room. They reported that it was brighter than their 46" Samsung RPTV, yet just as clear and sharp and with more shadow detail.

The last page of that Samsung .PDF file,

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/.../files/h710.pdf

advertises a DC3 version of this projector, which also has an 8 segment color wheel. Model number is listed as: SP-H800BE

Anyone have any input on this model? Also, does anyone know the difference in price between the SP-H710AE and the SP-H800BE?

Thanks!

Could any new purchasers of the Samsung SP-H710 AE please comment on this PJ. How it looked out of the box, what size and color/type screen being used. How long it took to calibrate if any. What disc used to calibrate. Any and all comments are appreciated. I am trying to decide between the Hitachi HDP-J52 or The Samsung 710. Also do you think the Samsung is worth the extra $1,000 over the Hitachi. Thankyou. J.D.

"Las Vegas, NV -- Samsung, a worldwide Information Technology and Consumer Electronics leader, brings the home theater experience to an unprecedented level of quality with the new high-end SP-H710AE and SP-H800BE DLP front projectors. Each unit allows home theater aficionados to experience the on-screen imagery and sound previously only possible in a commercial movie theater. The SP-H710AE ($4,000 MSRP) and SP-H800BE ($12,000 MSRP) are currently shipping and will be on display during CES 2006 at the Samsung booth, #11033 in the Central Hall of the Las Vegas Convention Center from January 5th - 8th"

Based on the price difference, I am a little surprised that some reviewers feel that the 710AE performs better than other DC3 projectors.

It really makes one try to guess what marketing departments smoke these days. On the one hand the 710 seems to be the best mix of items that makes one believe that spending a few dollars more actually makes sense (mature components packaged intelligently with a calibration heritage).

The 800 seems on the other hand a complete mystery at 3 times the price. It does not even rate a separate marketing brochure and they think they could possibly sell one of these? At best I could think of charging 10 - 30 percent more for the 'latest' buzzword ''improvements" all of which would be in the noise as far as performance goes for a single chip machine.

What could they be thinking on the 800? Is it a purely marketing item like "We have a 12k projector like everyone else used to have?

sspears

My screen is a 80"wide 92" diagonal studiotek 130 16x9. I would like to go bigger. I was wondering about the Carada Brilliant White 1.4 going 100" or 102 diaganol they have gotten really good reviews.

Thanks
Brad

The Carada BW would be a great choice IMO, and you can't beat the price. The BW material is very color accurate so it would be ideal for a very color accurate projector. :D

I believe the SP-H800BE is not yet shipping. Samsung may be working with TI to ensure their DC3 pj actually outperforms the 710. The 800 will be for the custom install market. While the 710 is allowed to be sold on the internet, the 800 likely will not. It will be for the same market that buys Runco, DWIN, SIM2, etc. Many of these buyers of true custom home theaters do not research as hard as we "bang for the buck" folks do. They trust their installer to provide an excellent theater experience and are more concerned about the total package price as opposed to the component costs.

The real question should be... when will Sammy bring out 1080p and or 3-chip FPs? And how much better can image quality get?

I have almost made my mind up to buy this projector. I have a couple of questions that hopefully some of you can answer.

First question. I want a screen size of 110" diag (96" wide). Sounds like this projector is bright enough for it. I'm thinking of Da-lite CinemaVision (1.3 gain) or HCCV (1.1 gain). Room has total light control. Which of these would you recommend?

Second question. There is only a DVI connection. What is the down side to not having an HDMI connection, or does it matter?

Thanks

Could owners of the Samsung H710AE comment about its fan noise? Since published specs seem to be so hard to interpret...How far do you sit from the PJ? does the noise bother you during silent or almost silent scenes? How does the noise vary from high to low lamp power?

Stef, I've seen the pj in a couple of different settings now, everybody notes it's "quiet". Rated at 28db. Fan noise seems to be well-baffled under any and all circumstances.

DVI connectors transfer only digital video, where HDMI transfer digital video and audio. Some people prefer DVI because its a larger connector, more sturdy.

DVI connectors transfer only digital video, where HDMI transfer digital video and audio. Some people prefer DVI because its a larger connector, more sturdy.

You can get an adapter from HDMI-DVI. Of course, it's not going to xfer audio.

The last page of that Samsung .PDF file,

http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/.../files/h710.pdf

advertises a DC3 version of this projector, which also has an 8 segment color wheel. Model number is listed as: SP-H800BE

Anyone have any input on this model? Also, does anyone know the difference in price between the SP-H710AE and the SP-H800BE?

Thanks!


Is there a chance that the projector displayed at CES was the 800 and not the 710 ??

Can anyone confirm that the projector can be controlled by it's rs-232 port for integration into a hardwired control system?? If so, are the codes availiable?

Good news! AVS is now carrying this piece.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=653041

Is there a chance that the projector displayed at CES was the 800 and not the 710 ??

Yes it was the 800 at CES and it didn't look anywhere near as good as the 710. If you scroll up through this thread you will some of the reasons why a DC3 pj doesn't always look as good as an HD2+ pj.

Can anyone confirm that the projector can be controlled by it's rs-232 port for integration into a hardwired control system?? If so, are the codes availiable?

That's why the RS232 port is there. I'm sure the codes can be easily obtained.

Could any Samsung H710AE owner comment about this PJ's black levels compared to the new HD2+ projectors, namely the Optoma HD72 and the Mitsubishi HC3000? Is there a clearly visible difference?

Yes it was the 800 at CES and it didn't look anywhere near as good as the 710. If you scroll up through this thread you will some of the reasons why a DC3 pj doesn't always look as good as an HD2+ pj.

That strikes me as odd. I would assume that they would have made similar optimizations to the 8-seg DC3 model to squeeze the most out of it, as they apparently have with the 5-seg HD2+ model.

I mean, where's the justification for the 3x MAP difference? Is it just because the 800 is the model they demo?

I am not saying that the 710 can't look better, it just seems odd that it should not be at least a *little* bit inferior to the 800 at 1/3 the cost.

i did a search (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=5486787) for posts on the earlier impressions of this projector at CEDIAs past and found many people commenting that the 800 looked better than the 700 (i realize the pj under discussion is the 710, but both are HD2+ while the 800 is DC3). Most of the posters back then were attributing the better picture to the DC3 providing better blacks, higher CR, etc.
so then the question i would have is- is the 710 really that much better than the 700, or are we just seeing the ($3500 msrp)pricing coloring peoples impressions of value/performance?

Thanks to all for their contributions to this thread. It's great info for anyone looking to spend $3k-$4k.

What do you have to pay for a 1080p PJ and does anyone care to guess how long until 1080p will be available in the $3k-$4k range?

That strikes me as odd. I would assume that they would have made similar optimizations to the 8-seg DC3 model to squeeze the most out of it, as they apparently have with the 5-seg HD2+ model.

I mean, where's the justification for the 3x MAP difference? Is it just because the 800 is the model they demo?

I am not saying that the 710 can't look better, it just seems odd that it should not be at least a *little* bit inferior to the 800 at 1/3 the cost.

I'm not an engineer but I think it's a matter of the greater capabilities of the DC3-8segCW requiring further refinements in the software and drive electronics to really achieve the full benefits. I don't see how the performance of the 710 could be improved, it is up against the specs and pushing the envelope hard. The 800 has plenty of room for improvement and my guess is they'll probably be showing that at CEDIA if not before.

What do you have to pay for a 1080p PJ and does anyone care to guess how long until 1080p will be available in the $3k-$4k range?

Optoma's HD81 will be out later this year, a 1080p dlp, that got great reviews at the CES; there are some long threads totally devoted to it. It's MSRP is $10K, but speculation is that the street price will be down to $7K very soon. So maybe one can get a unit like this for $5K by a year from now.

Thanks to all for their contributions to this thread. It's great info for anyone looking to spend $3k-$4k.

What do you have to pay for a 1080p PJ and does anyone care to guess how long until 1080p will be available in the $3k-$4k range?
2 years, the same as it took HD2 to go from $10k to $4k.

Later,
Bill

I have been trying to reach Jason Turk from AV Science to get a price quote for this PJ. I've been trying to reach him for two days without success. Could someone who knows the details of this AVS offer please PM me with the Info?

Thanks everyone.

stef,

Call him here. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=653413

Scott

Pricing has to be gotten from us directly. Otherwise this whole deal will simply be closed. Stef2, I apologize but I did not get any message from you. I have called everyone back. If you want to email me your phone, I will call you tonight.

Note warranty is NOT intact in Canada however. US only.

Regarding the warranty - if it is shipped back to the US, and the warranty claim is initiated from a USA address, the product will be eligible for warranty repairs. I don't know if AVS is equipped to deal with that sort of issue, however.

Kabillyhop - At 110", in total darkness, either screen will work well. I would probably go with the HCCV. At the Electrograph show, Joe Kane was using a Stewart white 1.3 gain screen with a little ambient light invading the tent setup and the whites were still quite bright, maybe a little too much so for my eyes. Definitely a matter of personal taste, though.

I don't post here much, but I must say the Samsung SP-H710AE has really got me very interested. Of all the current projectors I've seen mentioned at the "above and below $3500" areas of this web site, this one has got me the most excited. Samsung often seems to try a bit harder than the competition to gain market acceptance and this projector's build quality and performance seem to be a good example of that. The only concern I have with the projector is with the lack of HDMI and 8-bit (rather than 10-bit) processing. However, I suppose the DVI to HDMI cable route might provide just as stable a solution. Also, the DVI connector on the projector seems more secure IMHO. The 2-year warrantee is also a good thing...

Correct. Though the warranty is not good in a Canada service center, it is not voided just because it goes into Canada. All that would happen is it would get shipped into the US for service (should it be needed), and then for my customers, it would simply come to me from the center, and I would forward it back to you. A bit of a pain on the customers end, but I have done it for years and have no problem doing so for the future.

By the way I have one arriving hopefully today, that I am going to calibrate and take screen shots of this weekend. Stay tuned....

This is an asine question, I know: but any idea when Samsung might have a 1080p unit (with the .95" chip) analogous to the H710AE?

What's most interesting to me about the $4k msrp of the 710 is this: wasn't the msrp of the 700 $10k? That's some progress!!

TM

Samsung has landed! Just got it in. I will be doing my review this weekend.

Stay tuned....

Jason as we spoke about on the phone you know im anxiously awaiting your review on this unit, especially things like brightness, throw distance, I have a 106" screen and if it can fill that size screen from about 11 -13 ' should work along with the lens shift, we are anxiously waiting for you to take delivery of this unit and your report

By the way I have one arriving hopefully today, that I am going to calibrate and take screen shots of this weekend. Stay tuned....


Can't wait!!

Samsung has landed! Just got it in. I will be doing my review this weekend.

Stay tuned....

Jason, I'm in the same boat as the others. Anxious to hear your review comments. I need to project from about 15 to 16 feet back.

Jason, I'm in the same boat as the others. Anxious to hear your review comments. I need to project from about 15 to 16 feet back.

Man your lucky I dont have that much room wish I did, at 106" im probably right up against zoom, my current projector is at about 14" back but its not nearly as long as the the samsung so the lens has to be further up to accomodate the length of the projector

Jason, when you review this Sammy- would you please contrast the 710 with your thoughts on the Runco CL-420. I ask because these 2 projectors are in the same price "range" and have similar features (grayscale adjustment abilities, color-point adjustment, light output, etc). I've been watching these threads lately with some interest, since I've never seen the Samsung but it's always intrigued me.

Dan

Jason, when you review this Sammy- would you please contrast the 710 with your thoughts on the Runco CL-420. I ask because these 2 projectors are in the same price "range" and have similar features (grayscale adjustment abilities, color-point adjustment, light output, etc). I've been watching these threads lately with some interest, since I've never seen the Samsung but it's always intrigued me.

Dan

I second this, and also with the BenQ 8720 if possible. TIA!

I third this, but why stop there ? How about adding the Optoma H7x series into the comparison while you are at it please.... :eek:

Brent

Guys, the reason I was asking him to compare it to the Runco was that he just did the brief "review" of the 420 (sticky at top)- and because the 2 have similar features. Knowing how time-consuming it is to really tweak, and then evaluate 1 projector- he may not be able to give any comparisons...unless the other projectors are right there. And to be honest, the correct way to compare them is to calibrate them both to the same light output on the same screen, then look at the same material for both, etc. That type of stuff usually takes me at least a week when I'm doing my reviews, hopefully Jason will be able to indulge our requests, but if he can't, at least we can understand why.

If I didn't say it before, Jason, thanks for the effort and whatever comparisons you can offer. You're a reall asset to AVS.

Dan

I picked up my new Samsung 710AE from Jason today. Our room is not ready yet, and the screen isn't here yet, but I thought I'd post a couple of first impressions.

First of all, kudos to Jason and the AVS team.. fantastic customer service!!! Jason drove 2 hours to meet me half way, was there on time, and I got the projector just 3 days after ordering it!

Opened the box as soon as I got home and discovered an unexpected bonus from Samsung. I am in Canada and fully expected that warranty would not be valid here, meaning I'd have to return the unit to the US if there was a problem. Turns out not to be the case. There is an insert in the box which contains the following statement: SAMSUNG will additionally provide Warranty repair in the United States on SAMSUNG products purchased in Canada, and in Canada on SAMSUNG products purchased in the United States... Gotta like that!!

I temporarily hooked up the Samsung in the family room using a makeshift component cable from the DVD player and projecting on a brown wall. Didn't touch any settings at all. Wasn't expecting much from this setup, but I must say this picture looks incredible!! This is our first projector, so I haven't learned to be picky yet. :) What's all this about the blacks not being black enough? They look pretty darn black to me! Picture is way better than our CRT based HD RPTV.
And it can only get better when we move it to our new light controlled room and a proper screen!!

Thanks again to Jason, Alan and the AVS team for helping make this dream come true for us.

What's all this about the blacks not being black enough?

The thing is that while I also think the picture is nice for what you paid for it, most of that niceness is in the sharpness, the brightness, detail and generally material that has either a bright picture or very contrasty picture (i.e. black with bright objects).

When it comes down to a scene where all of the scene is very dim you can't help but see that the black borders around your screen is black and the screen is actually grey. Coming from a crt myself I have been able to get my on screen black to look the same level of black as the masking around the screen.

This adds something cool that once you experience it makes it hard to go back to grey. With that said I gave up the black for other things as mentioned above. One day though I will have it ALL at a cost pretty reasonable.

Congrats on your new purchase.

The week-end is almost over...so where is Jason's review?? :rolleyes:


By the way, can anyone confirm Kabillyhop's post saying that SAMSUNG will provide Warranty repair in Canada on SAMSUNG products purchased in the United States? Jason? any confirmation about this? anybody?

The week-end is almost over...so where is Jason's review?? :rolleyes:


By the way, can anyone confirm Kabillyhop's post saying that SAMSUNG will provide Warranty repair in Canada on SAMSUNG products purchased in the United States? Jason? any confirmation about this? anybody?


"SAMSUNG will additionally provide Warranty repair in the United States on SAMSUNG products purchased in Canada, and in Canada on SAMSUNG products purchased in the United States..."

That is a direct quote from an insert in the box titled "Samsung Electronics North American Limited Warranty Statement".

What's to confirm? That statement is very clear.

"SAMSUNG will additionally provide Warranty repair in the United States on SAMSUNG products purchased in Canada, and in Canada on SAMSUNG products purchased in the United States..."

That is a direct quote from an insert in the box titled "Samsung Electronics North American Limited Warranty Statement".

What's to confirm? That statement is very clear.



I wanted a confirmation based on (repeated) PAST EXPERIENCE. Believe me when I say that such a statement inserted in a box coming from the states doesn't necessarily mean that a service center in canada will want to repair the equipment or will know how to repair the said equipment. My experience isn't about Samsung or a Projector, but I've learned to be more cautious. I guess confirmation of the warranty being valid in Canada will only be possible if the PJ breaks down and gets repaired in Canada without any questionning.... :(

Hey Stef, we don't know how smooth the warranty process might or might not be, or whether a Canadian service center would know what they are doing, especially with a product that is (apparently) not sold in Canada. I agree with you that this knowledge would only come from experience. However, what we now do know is that this projector's warranty is legally valid in Canada and that Samsung has an obligation to fulfill. Collecting on it might be a painful experience, but at least we can collect on it. I bought the projector expecting that it would have to be returned to the US for warranty. I'm happy to know that is not the case.

Cheers

Stef,

I bought a benq pj from the States and imported it into Canada. Before doing so I confirmed with benq Canada that the warranty would be valid on both sides of the border. I've also had to use that warranty three times now (don't ask) and in all cases I've not had any problem getting service. As noted by Kabillyhop Samsung should honour the warranty.

The better question would be how well in general does Samsung support their PJ customers, especially for Canadian users such as yourself. I'm really of the mind now that this must be near the very top of the list for a purchase such as this.

Basement, you are right. I should be happy to know the warranty is legally valid in Canada. This is certainly a plus for Canadian buyers looking to buy this PJ. I was expecting the warranty to be invalid in here, as it is often the case with electronics I buy from the States. So another plus for the SAMSUNG! Now waiting to hear more about owner's comments! :)

I too am interested in this PJ and am a bit of a noob.

In my soon to be finished house with a dedicated room with good light control the front row, optimized for sound, will be about 150 inches from the screen. What do you folks think is the maximum screen width I could get away with without much SDE (I am hoping for 100")?

I was thinking about a Vutec Silverstar. Would that be a good mate for this PJ?

TIA

Mike

I sit 138" (eyeballs) from a 106" diagonal (92" wide) screen with no (720p DLP) SDE (with the possible exception of white credits on a black background, if I squint real hard). Seeing SDE depends on your visual acuity, mine is average. The guideline is 1.5x screen width, and I'm at 1.43x, and SDE is obvious, to me, at about 1.0x to 1.1x.

I really like what I am reading about the 710. However, what concerns me is what appears to be the lack of information on this model in Samsungs support pages on there web site. Does anyone know if there is adaequate service set up yet to support the 710? I would hate to have a product like this without a good manufacturers support.
Thanks for your help.

I posted this question on another thread. How about price for a replacement lamp for this projector, and where to buy them? There's no information about this.

I posted this question on another thread. How about price for a replacement lamp for this projector, and where to buy them? There's no information about this.


I would think this is pretty important also.

I called Samsung part and gave them the part number in the manual and they dont have a part for it. I also call partsstore.com same thing. Maybe the bulb for the 700 would work. Hopefully someone knows about a replacement bulb. The price for the 700 bulb is around $300 both places.

Brad

thanks for finding that info... I think I can handle $300 every 2000 hours.

~Jay

Does anyone know if the Samsung supports 1:1 pixel mapping over DVI and-or component inputs?

I called Samsung part and gave them the part number in the manual and they dont have a part for it. I also call partsstore.com same thing. Maybe the bulb for the 700 would work. Hopefully someone knows about a replacement bulb. The price for the 700 bulb is around $300 both places.

Brad

Brad, I called Samsung as well and after I gave him the model number Pedro told me the p/n is BP90-00213A, SRP is $289.00 and he showed it to be in stock.

Mountaineer

Thanks Iam glad that got it figured out. So it is the one for the 700AE on there page.

Brad

I just put the p/n in at partstore.com and they have it as well.

Brad

Can anyone with the projector give word on whether or not it can do vertical stretch for constant height without an external scalar/player?

EDIT: Nevermind, looks like it can't (read the sticky above).

Mine arrived today and it looks great on the off white wall. Can anyone comment on how much better the picture looks with a screen or screen paint? I've got the screen at 130' right now and would not want to go smaller.

Also, I've been watching the ncaa tournament and it appears that at times when players are moving that there is a slight shift along with their movement. Has anyone experienced that? I'm using a component right now and intend to try out dvi tomorrow.

I've been waffling for weeks over an Optoma HD72 (wrong offset by mere inches), H78DC3 (too dim for my 123" Firehawk/bulb issues), and now just found out about the Sammy 710.

From what I've been reading, together with Jason's review, this thing sounds like an absolute perfect match for me. Except for the fact that it does not have a screen trigger. I need to go double check for sufficient light and my screen and I may pull this bad boy!

one way to look at things with the trigger ;) which I know would be cool and I wish I had it but my receiver has triggers that I can use ?? so not sure what you have for other gear ? but check out your receiver
also some home automation setups can control screens lights and more ?? might be something you can integrate later on ?


but the screen will be around for your next PJ and you can use it then if the above never works out ;) hehehehe

I guess you would have to ask yourself can I live without a trigger for a better picture ?

Does the DVI connection support HDCP? What about 1080p (matters less of course, since it can be downscaled to 720p)?

Lindahl, I'm not sure on the HDCP, but from what I've read DVI cannot output 1080P.

one way to look at things with the trigger ;) which I know would be cool and I wish I had it but my receiver has triggers that I can use ?? so not sure what you have for other gear ? but check out your receiver
also some home automation setups can control screens lights and more ?? might be something you can integrate later on ?


but the screen will be around for your next PJ and you can use it then if the above never works out ;) hehehehe

I guess you would have to ask yourself can I live without a trigger for a better picture ?

I put better picture above anything else. Well, I have to keep the $ in mind, but the trigger I can get over :)

I want a screen size of 110" diag (96" wide). Sounds like this projector is bright enough for it. I'm thinking of Da-lite CinemaVision (1.3 gain) or HCCV (1.1 gain). Room has total light control. Which of these would you recommend?

At that size, stick with CinemaVision (assuming you don't want to spend the extra money for Studiotek 130).

84" wide is the maximum screen size that Joe Kane recommends for the GrayHawk Reference surface (similar gain to the HCCV) with the Samsung.

Ken Whitcomb

Hi. I'm looking to upgrade from my Sanyo and the Samsung seems a perfect choice. Need a couple of questions answered, though.

1) Can the 710AE lens throw a 110" diagonal picture from 15' away?

2) I currently have a Stewart Greyhawk (regular, not RS) screen with a gain of 0.92. At 110", do you think the StudioTek 130 (gain 1.3) would be a better choice for this PJ than my Greyhawk?

Thanks in advance.

At that size, stick with CinemaVision (assuming you don't want to spend the extra money for Studiotek 130). 96" is the maximum screen size that Joe Kane recommends for the Samsung.

Ken Whitcomb

And I think Joe (being a truly SERIOUS av guy) is only interested in fully light-controlled rooms in his thinking and planning. Pity--I appreciate the role for these, but it's just not what I have or want. So in a den with filtered daytime light, and some low lights in the evening (though usually lights out for dvds), it doesn't sound like this pj will be a good choice with a 110" diag (96"W) Firehawk. I think I need ~40 to 50 ftL to satisfy my situation (i.e., something like a good RPTV), and for a 110"diag Firehawk I calculate that I need a pj with ~1200 to 1400 Lumens (CALIBRATED for video) to achieve this, i.e., more than twice that of the 710 (465 calibrated Lumens).

Another point: I coming to understand from a variety of threads, that if one has even only a small amount of ambient light, then the CR is GREATLY reduced from its theoretical max. So there's not much point in having super good CR if it is going to be immediately degraded with a smidgen of ambient light--that better PQ is achieved in these situations by just poring on the Lumens.

So is it true that the 710 is really only a good choice for a totally light-controlled room?

Ken: Thanks, I think that is good advice. In fact, I have the Cinema Vision on order and expect to receive it soon.

Bill: For what its worth... our basement light controlled theater is still under construction. In the meantime I have tried this projector on a beige wall in our non light controlled family room, adjacent to an eating area with lights on. Projecting to 110", I found the picture to be quite acceptable under these less than ideal conditons. With a moderate gain screen like the Cinema Vision we ordered (1.3 gain), I think it would be very good in this environment. This is my experience and I offer it for what it is worth - you may prefer a brighter picture.

Mpedris: According to the specs, it will throw a 110" diag image from 12.5'-16.5'.. so yes to your question about 15'. Re screen choice, read Ken's advice in the previous post to yours.

Kabillyhop: Thanks much for your experience with the 710 in a non-light-controlled situation; sounds like I should still keep it on the list of possibilities!

Kabillyhop:

Thanks for info on image size. And, yes, I did see Ken's post, but only after I had posted my mine. So, from Ken's post, it looks like I would have to go for the Studiotek 130. Since I already have the GrayHawk frame, I may only need the screen material.

can anyone comment on the differences between the samsung and the Runco CL-420? im interested in comparing things like brightness and contrast, the Runco does seem a bit easier to install since it has both horizontal and vertical lens shift and I believe throw distance is about the same and so is the length of the of both units which is important for me since the projector would be mounted with the rear very close to a soffit and with the length of each unit being just over 16" long I should still be able to install the lens about 12.5 ft from my 106" screen and still fill it even with the soffit. Currently my projector is 1000 lumens and im wondering if there will be similar brightness coming from the Samsung given that it states that the lumen rating of 700 is not accurate in real world viewing, also we would like to continue to hear more from those who have installed this unit, are you happy with your purchase? is it bright enough for you and how are the colors, im about 2 weeks out from making a decision so just know that your comments about your experiences are not wasted, we do make decisions based on your real world experiences.

I am in the middle of finishing my basement and would like to put a projector down there. I have been learning about projectors for the last 6 months, so I am still new at this. I am interested in purchasing the Samsung 710 as my first projector. The projector will be on a shelf 6.5’ off the ground. The screen will be placed 12’ in front of the projector and the top of the screen will be approximately 6” below the center of the bulb. I will be sitting about 13 to 14 back from the screen. Will I be able to put a 106” diagonal screen at that distance and is there enough lens shift on the Samsung to have the top of the screen 6” below it? I have been researching screens as well. I was thinking of going with a Da-lite Cinemavision screen. Is this a good choice for this projector and my room conditions? The area will be light controlled The walls will be painted dark but the ceiling I have been going back and forth between a dark color drop ceiling and a white one. Please let me know if this projector and screen will fit in my basement. I am open to suggestions.

BradH & jkirk,

Did you receive and install your Samsung 710? I am interested in what you think concerning PQ & RBE.

How far is your seating distance from your screen?

I'm an "electronically-challenged" female researching for my first pj purchase. I've gotta make a good choice to keep my husband happy (no complaing about how much $$ I'm spending- ya know).

I am leaning towards a DLP but my room dimensions are a challenge. Only 7 ft. ceiling height- so the lens shift is a great feature for me.

Any feedback would ge greatly appreciated and possibly keep me out of the doghouse!!

Kari

I am in the middle of finishing my basement and would like to put a projector down there. I have been learning about projectors for the last 6 months, so I am still new at this. I am interested in purchasing the Samsung 710 as my first projector. The projector will be on a shelf 6.5’ off the ground. The screen will be placed 12’ in front of the projector and the top of the screen will be approximately 6” below the center of the bulb. I will be sitting about 13 to 14 back from the screen. Will I be able to put a 106” diagonal screen at that distance and is there enough lens shift on the Samsung to have the top of the screen 6” below it?

Try this: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Samsung-SP-H710AE-projection-calculator-pro.htm

As for lens shift, according to this review http://www.projectorcentral.com/samsung_sph710.htm :

"The H710 offers a lens shift range of roughly 2.5 screen heights - in other words, from neutral position, the image can be shifted 1.25 screen heights either up or down (neutral position is when the centerline of the lens and the center of the image are at the same height). This is an impressive range, and allows for excellent flexibility for placement of the projector without resorting to drop-tube ceiling mounts or tilting the projector and applying keystone correction."

Lindahl, I'm not sure on the HDCP, but from what I've read DVI cannot output 1080P.

Not true. Check out this link (http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/data/DVI-conn.html) which provides for the maximum resolutions supported by DVI.

John

Kari

I do see RBE but not much. How every it doesnt bother me. The PQ is great, very sharp and great color (waiting on new screen before have Ken Witcomb ISF calibrate) which will get the very last bit out of the projector. I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad

Kari

The one thing I left out is the depth and 3d of this projector are really good. I was afaid I was going to give that up as it turns out its every bit as good as the CRT or even better.

Brad

Kari

I do see RBE but not much. How every it doesnt bother me. The PQ is great, very sharp and great color (waiting on new screen before have Ken Witcomb ISF calibrate) which will get the very last bit out of the projector. I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad

Hi Brad,

I notice you are choosing a Grayhawk? Is there a reason you are choosing that vs say the Firehawk which has 1.25 gain vs the Grayhawk?

I misquoted Joe on maximum screen size. 96" wide is the size of the Studiotek 130 he uses in his demos. 120" wide Studiotek 130 is the maximum recommended size.

And I think Joe (being a truly SERIOUS av guy) is only interested in fully light-controlled rooms in his thinking and planning. Pity--I appreciate the role for these, but it's just not what I have or want. So in a den with filtered daytime light, and some low lights in the evening (though usually lights out for dvds), it doesn't sound like this pj will be a good choice with a 110" diag (96"W) Firehawk. I think I need ~40 to 50 ftL to satisfy my situation (i.e., something like a good RPTV), and for a 110"diag Firehawk I calculate that I need a pj with ~1200 to 1400 Lumens (CALIBRATED for video) to achieve this, i.e., more than twice that of the 710 (465 calibrated Lumens).
First, Joe's goal was to help create a projector good enough to use in post-production work in Hollywood. That means that in the right environment, it's capable of reference image quality. Like any such product, if you use it in less than optimum conditions, there will be compromises.

Second, 40-50 fL coming from a screen that size is certainly possible, but it would be very uncomfortable viewing in the dark (like opposing cars with their brights on when you're driving at night). You would likely need an expensive 3-chip display to achieve it ($$$).

Another point: I coming to understand from a variety of threads, that if one has even only a small amount of ambient light, then the CR is GREATLY reduced from its theoretical max. So there's not much point in having super good CR if it is going to be immediately degraded with a smidgen of ambient light--that better PQ is achieved in these situations by just poring on the Lumens.

So is it true that the 710 is really only a good choice for a totally light-controlled room?
No. What IS true is that for the $3,995 retail price of this product you would be hard pressed to find better performance.


Ken Whitcomb

I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad


Brad, I'm glad to hear that you are happy! I get my 710AE tomorrow!

I also come from a long CRT background, I started with a Video Grade CRT about 11 years ago and kept that for about 6 years. I replaced that with my current projector, an NEC 6PG.

What CRT projector did you have before? Is your 710 your first digital?

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to a quiet projector. If the image quality is better, then that's just icing on the cake!

~Jay

Second, 40-50 fL coming from a screen that size is certainly possible, but it would be very uncomfortable viewing in the dark (like opposing cars with their brights on when you're driving at night). You would likely need an expensive 3-chip display to achieve it ($$$).Ken Whitcomb

Ken, thanks very much for your patient (and gentle) reply to my naive rambles; I'm a RPTV guy (Mits 73"1080p dlp) hankering for a larger screen and trying to learn about FP from all of you here. My goals are very different from most of you in this thread, I believe, who have totally light-controlled rooms and are planning for the most critical veiwing. I suppose I'm just looking for a 'big tv', but one of high quality (and I'm willing to pay for quality PQ). But I'm not interested in the 'bat cave' model (though I'm certainly not criticizing people who want this theater-type set up).

Anyway, re the brightness: I've also been reading over in the Sanyo PLV-70 thread, where people want to put its ~1600 Lumens (calibrated for video!) onto a 2.8 gain Hipower screen, generating ~124 ftL on a 110" screen! And then there are those here on this thread that are aiming for the 'theater standard' of 10 to 20 ftL. I've been thinking that ~ 50 ftL would correspond to a good RPTV, but here you are telling me that this would be too bright to watch in a darkened room. I now watch my Mits 73" dlp in a darkened room, only with a ~12 watt flurescent backlight behind it. So I'm confused! (not an unusual state for me).

Anyway, thanks for your comment, opinions, and suggestions--please keep them coming. (And if my interests are too far out of line with those of people here, I will keep quiet in the future.)

Hi Bill,

I'll just say this in case you didn't think of it...

With front projection it is impossible to project black, black is simply the absence of light. Therefore if you have a lot of ambient light the image will look pretty washed out even with a very bright projector.

Rear projection screens are very dark even in a brightly lit room. That is why they can look good in a bright room.

If you have the space an the money would can do a custom rear projection screen.

You may also want to look at the sony black screen. It may be the best compromise for you.

A projector like the 710AE may not be you best choice because it was designed to work well in total darkness.

A thought about a projector being too bright...

I read here on the forum a while back about DLP and eye strain. I think the conclusion in that long thread was that the eyestrain was not caused by DLP technology, but rather it was caused by a super bright projector on a relatively small screen. The solution was to back light the screen to relieve the eye strain.

You eyes adjust to average light in a room. IF you watch a small TV in total darkness your pupils will open up and the very bright TV will hurt your eyes. When you turn some light on with that same TV your pupils close and your eyes will feel much better.

Same is true with a projector.

One thing you need to remeber.. this is called Home Theater, so you need to have your system set up how you like it.. it's your home! We may try to evangelize you, and convince you that a dark room is the only way to watch a movie, but ultimately you need to do what you want in your home.

~Jay

Jay

I had a Runco 930. Yes this is my first Digital. I have always listened to Ken Whitcomb when it comes to what to buy as he recommends the Samsung. He gets to see a lot of product after calibration in controlled rooms which is hard for me to do living in southern Indiana.

Mitch

For the Grayhawk RS I will be getting is 83"wide or 96"diagonal. The grayhawk will give good colors like the studiotek I have now and a bonus of better blacks which I want. The firehawk is known to have some hot spotting and a smaller viewing cone. The grayhawk has the same 160 degree viewing cone as the studiotek according to Stewarts website. As with the projector, Ken and I have talked about screens which he has seen this projector on both screens (for better example maybe Ken will chime in). I really just want to get the most out of the projector and the grayhawk RS will give me that, and for the size I will have enough light output as well.

Brad

Jay, Thanks much for a very thoughtful discussion. Yes, if I could get a ~90" RPTV of high quality (e.g., maybe with the 1" 1080p dlp chip) in year or so, I would probably prefer it to FP. (But I don't have the arrangement that will allow for a built-in rig; need something like the Infocus 'thin' rptv trick.) But I am intrigued by FP--it does sound like a lot of fun, with the variables of the pj, and the screen!--so will continue to follow developments in it. There are supposed to be some 1080p single chip dlp's coming out later this year, with >>1000 Lumens, at </= $10K, so it will be interesting to see how they are received.

Folks, at one time the Samsung was priced along with such makes as Marantz, Sharp, etc., at or around $12,000, if I remember correctly.

My question is, how well did the Samsung fair, at the time, against those "giants"?

Folks, at one time the Samsung was priced along with such makes as Marantz, Sharp, etc., at or around $12,000, if I remember correctly.

My question is, how well did the Samsung fair, at the time, against those "giants"?
Industry guru Joe Kane consulted with Samsung on this project, with the goal of making the finest single-chip DLP projector possible. The problem was that Samsung had no established distribution channel for such a high-end product. Marketing was basically non-existant, so people bought the established brands they knew and saw in advertising.

Some speculate that Samsung's real goal was to improve their rear-projection DLP engines using what they learned from the colaboration with Joe. As a calibrator, I can certainly attest to their success if that's true.


Ken Whitcomb

I'm confused. In Jason's quick review he says:

On the Samsung, the colors were still extremely vibrant, but there was detail in the image as well. Very impressive. Part of this is I'm sure due to the newer designed color wheel. It offers 2 different shades of each primary color, which lends itself to vibrant, but detailed images.

So, is the color wheel not RGBRGB?

I'm wondering how 710AE compares to the new IN76 from Infocus since their prices are sort of close. From all of the reading I've been doing, it looks like the IN76 will be the quieter of the two, but that the 710's noise isn't much of a problem. I know that my 4805 is too loud for me. My bulb finally went and I'm waiting on the replacement since I didn't buy a spare (idiot!), and I've really noticed a lot more detailed sound coming from all of my speakers. So, this is a really important factor in my upgrade.

The contrasts seem like they'll be similar, even though the IN76 is rated higher is its specs. I'm not sure about the black levels. Is the HD2+ chip in the 710 still a Darkchip 2? Then,
their black levels would be close if not the same, right? And if I'm misunderstanding Jason's statement, and the two projectors have the same color wheel, then after calibration, will the color differences between both projectors be negligible?

And then there's the differences between the 710's video processing versus the IN76's.

I'm really conflicted here. Especially after hearing from previous CRT owners giving the 710 such high praise. Has anyone here seen both of these in similar environment?

I both love and hate this part of the HT hobby. :)

So, is the color wheel not RGBRGB?

My information suggests that it's the same color wheel as the original Samsung SP-H700, which is RGBRGB.


Ken Whitcomb

Thanks, Ken. I took a closer look at what Jason said and I think I'm understanding it now. He's saying the first three segments of the color wheel are a slightly different shade of the second three segments. They're still RGB, yet slightly different. It's so simple, yet I couldn't figure that out for the life of me. :rolleyes: Sound about right?

Just FYI, I spoke with Jason today and told him that I was ready to order the projector but was a bit conflicted between the samsung and the Runco CL-420 which was a bit more but I would have sprung for it if Jason felt it was a better projector overall, he told me that the Samsung was brighter and had better more vibrant colors, well that sealed it for me and I placed the order today, just thought maybe someone else could use this piece of info.

Is is likely that Samsung will have a 1080p version of this unit a year from now?

This may be a stupid question to some of you...but does the Sanyo z4 even compare to the Samsung 710 in picture quality? I realize they are in different price classes and one is LCD and the other is DLP. I have a z4 now with a 100 inch HCCV screen in a total light controlled room and am wondering how much of an upgrade the Samsung would be? Is it worth trying to convince (I mean beg) the wife for approval? I have never owned a dlp projector...only the z2 and now the z4... Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill

Jay


Mitch

For the Grayhawk RS I will be getting is 83"wide or 96"diagonal. The grayhawk will give good colors like the studiotek I have now and a bonus of better blacks which I want. The firehawk is known to have some hot spotting and a smaller viewing cone. The grayhawk has the same 160 degree viewing cone as the studiotek according to Stewarts website. As with the projector, Ken and I have talked about screens which he has seen this projector on both screens (for better example maybe Ken will chime in). I really just want to get the most out of the projector and the grayhawk RS will give me that, and for the size I will have enough light output as well.

Brad

can't wait to hear how it turns out Brad. Since I chose to go 123", I decided to stick with the Firehawk. I hope it was the right choice. Luckily, my room has a narrow viewing angle so it turned out to be perfect for my situation.

I was under the impression that the hot spotting of the Firehawk was due to older gain formulas (when it was up at 1.35 gain). Now, the Firehawk has been lowered down to 1.25 gain. I guess I"ll find out!

Bill, welcome to the forum!

I can't answer your question, but I wanted to ask if you've ever seen a DLP projector before? Just to see if you're susceptible to rainbows or not.

I haven't seen either projector to give you a good answer though.

Just FYI, I spoke with Jason today and told him that I was ready to order the projector but was a bit conflicted between the samsung and the Runco CL-420 which was a bit more but I would have sprung for it if Jason felt it was a better projector overall, he told me that the Samsung was brighter and had better more vibrant colors, well that sealed it for me and I placed the order today, just thought maybe someone else could use this piece of info.

it's very good info, thanks!

Just to be sure, I'm going to wait until Jason reviews the Infocus IN76 as it looks like it is comparable to the Samsung H710AE. It costs less, has two digital inputs (HDMI and DVI), and may be a formidable competitor.

can't wait to hear how it turns out Brad. Since I chose to go 123", I decided to stick with the Firehawk. I hope it was the right choice. Luckily, my room has a narrow viewing angle so it turned out to be perfect for my situation.

I was under the impression that the hot spotting of the Firehawk was due to older gain formulas (when it was up at 1.35 gain). Now, the Firehawk has been lowered down to 1.25 gain. I guess I"ll find out!

Really looking forward to hearing how you like the Firehawk with it.

Really looking forward to hearing how you like the Firehawk with it.

depending on which projector I get, I'll immediately put a few hours on it and then do the usual Avia and DVE calibrations. Then I'll attempt to do some digi-shots to post up.

I'm assuming that the H710 has 8-bit color processing due to the DVI input? Is this correct? While I'm at it, does anyone think the new IN76 will be a good competitor to the H710?

Mitch

I think you are right on the firehawk. The older one with 1.35 gain was the one I was thinking of.

Brad

I'm assuming that the H710 has 8-bit color processing due to the DVI input? Is this correct? While I'm at it, does anyone think the new IN76 will be a good competitor to the H710?
The Samsung uses 8-bit gamma processing, but look at a gray ramp pattern on it before you let that scare you. An amazing little machine!

The InFocus is cheaper, but it's lack of lens shift would be a deal-breaker for many.


Ken Whitcomb

IN76 has a one-year warranty, H710AE is two-year.

IN76 claims 3000:1 contrast ratio, H710AE is 2800:1. I thought TI's spec for DC2 maxed at 2800:1? Are IF doing something different?

OK quick thoughts
sorry my grammar sucks and I am kinda a scatter brain at writing
also I am sick :( and UPS didnt get to my door until 8:15pm tonight so just writing quickly

so hooked it up quickly and just put in SW Episode III and a couple other movies I like to use
Master and Commander and Gladiator also the SB version of 5th element just a few choice scenes as I have to get sleep


I have a DT-400 now I am happy with as I have had it long enough to tweak it and play with it to my liking
I also had the Mitsubishi 3000 great machine and prefered it over the Sharp
my real world analogy says with the sharp and the Mits if you had each setup in a dif room and had to walk from room to room it would be hard pressed to say which is better ? you might prefer one over the other ? but me I lean toward the mits ? after a few trips back and forth again ? might make it easier to lean toward the mits but it would be hard
side by side the mits has the advantage but again would be tough to say why and how they are close enough

now if you were to walk from one room to the other with the Mits or the DT-400 and compare it to the new H710 you would say easy hands down the samsung beats them
does not blow them away but close to it when you are comparing these they are close but beats them easy enough you dont need to do any side by side or a/b type comparison and in my eyes easily worth the price over the Mits without hesitation !!!!

everything is better by a good margin
better shadow detail with less noise
contrast
color
skin tones
sharpness ? lens ? reminds me of L glass vs cheap glass for those that shoot Canon this will make sense those that dont its like comparing a $1500 lens vs a $150 lens
way cleaner and way less noise
brighter than the others I have and also a nice brightness not harsh
edge to edge look is nice clean even and sharper
shadow detail is great
dark levels ? I am not seeing why a few other say what they do but I have not seen a CRT set in a long time since my buds had some I have seen so cant say compared to those
compared to the others such as the sharp or Mits
way nicer black levels on this one and for sure more shadow detail but its the color and the clean sharp 3d look that puts it farther ahead than the dark levels and shadow but again I have had my sharp for a while and both these use the same chip and I have tweaked mine a lot
but have to say if out of the box the Samsung is beating it by this much cant wait to play with it more wwhhheeeeee

way more 3d looking for sure
even my wife bless her for living with me this last month ;) heheheh sure others can relate

say in the scene in gladiator with the big guy that comes out of retirement and when they show his helmet ;) OH MAN so much more depth and real look to it switching back for my wife even she understands what I mean by more 3d look ;)

skin tones ;) again OH WOW being a photographer I am used to skin tones and since I am new to PJ world I can say the 5 I have tried out this one is amazing and seems very accurate also looks like a photo shot with L glass over cheap glass so much more detail contrast and depth color saturation etc..

so for me its a keeper and very happy and have to say easily will blow away the Mits without any tweaking out of the box just the quick thx setup to do contrast and brightness
and WOW WOW WOW

now if you order it from AVS asked if you can get it double boxed !!
I so wish they did this as I like to keep my main box in nice condition and also have it clean !!!

mine came with a ceiling mount ? so bonus I guess or ?? wont use it now but might be handy

also got my new PSB 10s speaks for the side tonight :) I was using straight 2Bs for the sides and back so far sounds way nicer and more open and smooth using a NAD T773 receiver
so double bonus day to update my audio a touch and my new pj

well can try to voice any other thoughts if any one is curious or snap some pics
my screen is a basic matte white setup so have to figure out what screen I want now with budget
quickly put my 2x2 foot samples up of the HCMW and the HP
the HP is the first time I have thought the blacks look good enough I might consider this screen with the other PJs it had such horrid blacks on this screen I thought no way !!! so the H710 holds the darks so much nicer with this screen but without viewing it in whole its hard to say ?
so my black level mind might say this is way ahead of my others with this 2x2 foot sample I was not even thinking of this as a choice really and now its a choice maybe



machine wise its nice size feels good and well made the controls seem solid so far and not cheap and flimsy
focus has nice throw on it so easy to dial it in
even the way the feet adjusters feel are super nice super smooth

so if you are leaning toward the Mits HC3000 or similar type machine and are going back and forth cause of the price in my book its worth it for the color and pic quality over these ? how much over ?? well easily worth it in my book going off what I got it for
not seeing the H78 I cant say but the bulb thing freaked me away ? which I could have seen it but from reading results against the HC3000 and the other HD72 etc.. I think I made the best choice


in quick closing
out of the boxif its this killer and beating my current one I cant wait to spend some time with it
is it worth more than the others such as the mits HC3000 ? yes
now that I have seen it I would even pay retail its that much nicer to my eyes

I can not wait till tomorrow to get some more play time in with it and get a few more movies on get some hours on it and pop in the Avia disc

hope this helps out some of you :)

in quick closing
out of the boxif its this killer and beating my current one I cant wait to spend some time with it
is it worth more than the others such as the mits HC3000 ? yes
now that I have seen it I would even pay retail its that much nicer to my eyes

I can not wait till tomorrow to get some more play time in with it and get a few more movies on get some hours on it and pop in the Avia disc

hope this helps out some of you :)

Honu,

Thanks for the nice review--your thoughts answered some of my concerns, as I was seriously considering the HD72. I'm a bit spooked by two Optoma issues (reset on HD72, bulbs on H78/79). Also considering the IN76 and Optoma 7100, though.

Your direct comparison to the Mits is really helpful, as it seems that PJ is quite similar to the HD72. I'm now really leaning toward this unit, though I'll look for Jason's reviews of the 7100 and IN76 before deciding, though. All in all, I found your review reassuring, as this PJ seems outstanding as reviewed by Jason and others.

KK

Good info, Honu. Thanks for taking the time to share.

For anyone needing more "oomph" for ambient light conditions, this projector and the Vutec SilverStar make a nice combo. Although rated at 6.0 gain by Vutec, Pete Putnam estimates that it's a 3-4 gain. Still not bad considering it's also high-gain with very good very angles.

A couple that had this combo installed (110" diag. screen) reported that with moderate ambient light, it was brighter and sharper than their Samsung DLP RPTV, with similar black levels and much better shadow detail.

Everything has compromises, though. I'm guessing that the shadow detail might suffer a little. And you pretty much have to get the fixed, rigid screen. Dealers tell me that the electric SilverStar screens are highly prone to buckling (waviness).

Good info, Honu. Thanks for taking the time to share.

For anyone needing more "oomph" for ambient light conditions, this projector and the Vutec SilverStar make a nice combo. Although rated at 6.0 gain by Vutec, Pete Putnam estimates that it's a 3-4 gain. Still not bad considering it's also high-gain with very good very angles.

A couple that had this combo installed (110" diag. screen) reported that with moderate ambient light, it was brighter and sharper than their Samsung DLP RPTV, with similar black levels and much better shadow detail.

Everything has compromises, though. I'm guessing that the shadow detail might suffer a little. And you pretty much have to get the fixed, rigid screen. Dealers tell me that the electric SilverStar screens are highly prone to buckling (waviness).

Very, very interesting! A 110" screen is exactly what I'm planning for, and my goal is to have something as good PQ-wise as my Mits 73" 1080p dlp, just bigger. My only question: I've read in a number of threads that the SS does very poorly with ambient light, yet you claim otherwise; I'm confused. (This was in comparison to a Supernova and a Firehawk, the latter doing only slightly less well than the SN, but the SS doing much less well.) Also, various people have complained about a 'sheen' from the SS. ??

well can try to voice any other thoughts if any one is curious or snap some pics
my screen is a basic matte white setup so have to figure out what screen I want now with budget
quickly put my 2x2 foot samples up of the HCMW and the HP
the HP is the first time I have thought the blacks look good enough I might consider this screen with the other PJs it had such horrid blacks on this screen I thought no way !!! so the H710 holds the darks so much nicer with this screen but without viewing it in whole its hard to say ?

Before you decide, you might want to have someone hold the samples to the sides and in the corners of the screen while projecting white fields from DVE or AVIA. From all locations within the seating cone, look for light falloff or color shift.

The projector was designed using the Studiotek 130 and GrayHawk RS screen surfaces, both which have flat spectral uniformity. I'm sure you can achieve acceptable results with others, but I would recommend surfaces that have similar characteristics. This should provide the superior color fidelity that is designed into this projector.


Ken Whitcomb

The H710 is Great! I've been using a pannyAE700 for the past year and wanted to significantly upgrade. My choices were the H72, mit 3000, H78DC3, HS51A and H710. I've read every posting and review about these projectors. I was able to view the HS51A and Mit 3000, but decided to buy the H710 site unseen.

I am using an 82" Firehawk, with some light entering the room from a large window that has the blinds shut, and the picture is fine. At night, in total light control, the picture is outstanding! The colors "pop" and the pic is very sharp with great detail!

My sources include DVI from my cable box (I also tried component from the cable box and highly recommend DVI especially for high definition) and VGA from my MOVI M2000 (glorified computer source calibrated to the samsung).

The picture is "plasma-like" with high def (DVI). The VGA connection from the Movi is "film-like". But you need to control the light entering the room to experience these views.

As a side note, I've been using the Harman Kardon DPR 2005 (digital receiver) with B&W nautilus 804 (fronts), HTM2 (center), 805 (rear) and the entire package is mind blowing!

I haven't left the theatre room for two days! I will be calibrating with the AVIA disc today.

I am using an 82" Firehawk, with some light entering the room from a large window that has the blinds shut, and the picture is fine. At night, in total light control, the picture is outstanding! The colors "pop" and the pic is very sharp with great detail!
Joe Kane measured 22 fL on his 82" GrayHawk RS screen, so if your budget allows you might want to consider changing to that surface.


Ken Whitcomb

Anybody running an Oppo player with this PJ? Are you having the same issues mentioned in the 710 problem thread? I was all set to jump on the Samsung until this issue was brought up.

Anybody running an Oppo player with this PJ? Are you having the same issues mentioned in the 710 problem thread? I was all set to jump on the Samsung until this issue was brought up.
Could you please post a link to the thread you speak of? I tried to locate it, but couldn't.
Thanks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=658941

Before you decide, you might want to have someone hold the samples to the sides and in the corners of the screen while projecting white fields from DVE or AVIA. From all locations within the seating cone, look for light falloff or color shift.

The projector was designed using the Studiotek 130 and GrayHawk RS screen surfaces, both which have flat spectral uniformity. I'm sure you can achieve acceptable results with others, but I would recommend surfaces that have similar characteristics. This should provide the superior color fidelity that is designed into this projector.


Ken Whitcomb

Ken thanks so much for the info ;)
I will do that for sure I did that with my other PJ when I got them but since I knew this one would be so dif I would have to do it again


any thoughts you have on the HCMW screen ?? I have to have a pull down where its setup so the GH is out of budget at this point but should be back in budget next year or so
our walls are light colored ? might go a dark mocha color or something but its a all purpose room so cant go black ;)

I am really debating about two screens a cheap b model HP for chick flick movies my wife and I like and the HCMW for more serious movies
I keep going back and forth on the HP thing ? and really my inner gut says to get it as a 2nd screen for fun movies and TV etc..
and get the HCMW since movies like master and commmander or star wars etc.. would not have the black level I want on the HP

look forward to your thoughts ;)

have to look for that tonight with the DVI and gradations ?
only way I think I can do is try some HDNet content and also hook up my puter to it ??
so might be a day or so

funny I slept in this morning being sick and all and last night when I got it my wife had not seen it or even looked up at it but this morning she came in just a sec ago and said "WOW thats a big projector"

Thanks for the review, Honu! Sounds very nice. I'm still wavering on this and the IN76. Can't wait to hear the info on that too. And hopefully the DVI problem is narrowed down to projector or source. (Hopefully source.)

Yesterday the UPS man brought the H710 :)

I won't give a review yet, because it is hooked up in a makeshift way using less than ideal cables.

All I have right now is a VGA cable comming out of the HTPC, the VGA from the transcoder doesn't work with this projector. I guess the VGA input doesn't accept those scan rates.

Right now I am feeding the projector 1280x768@72hz. The left few inces image is off the screen (half of the windows Start button) so I guess I need to find a better resolution.

This projector really stands out from any other consumer or pro device I have ever owned. It seems like thought actually went into the design.

One example of that is the upside-down and backwards option- it is ONE button that toggles from [front floor] to [front ceiling] to [rear floor] to [rear ceiling]. Most projectors expect you to stand on your head and read backwards and then hop through a bunch on menus to change that.

Direct access to all the inputs, descrete on, but off requires 3 different buttons.
I would have prefered the more common way where you push the off button twice.

Also the build quality is top notch.

In the past few months I have succeded in traing myself to see rainbows on even the best single chip DLPs. I really feared that this would be an issue long term if I ever owned one. Well for test patterns the rainbows drive me crazy!!! BUT after watching a little bit I think I can learn not to see rainbows.

I'll start by stating the obvious-
compared to my CRT, the black isn't black. 99% of the time that isn't an issue, but one example was Scooby Doo. In the opening there are two white eyes in total darkness moving around the screen. with CRT it is a very cool effect, with DLP... not so cool.
I can't think of any other weaknesses compared to CRT... well unless you consider rainbows.

As I said it is not set up properly, but I must say that I am BLOWN AWAY by the color pallet!!! There must be 10 times the number of colors my CRT has.
And the 6PG crt with color filters is no slouch.

One way this beats the heck out of CRT is setup... I had it out of the box, on a table plugged in and connected to the PC in less than 20 minutes... then maybe 1 minute to zoom and focus. It took nearly 20 minutes just to get the CRT through the front door!

The only HD I was able to view was some 720 WMV-HD deomo stuff. IT looked amazing!

Tonight I may actually watch a movie.. not just little parts of movies.

I won't have a proper DVI cable and switch until next week.. or next month. I'll be on vacation the first two weeks of April, after that I'll try do have the DVI all set up, the projector mounted, and I can give a real world use review.

I'll try to take some screen shots comparing it to the CRT while the CRT is still set up.

I don't think I'll regret moving from my CRT to this projector. :)

~Jay

Thanks for the review, Honu! Sounds very nice. I'm still wavering on this and the IN76. Can't wait to hear the info on that too. And hopefully the DVI problem is narrowed down to projector or source. (Hopefully source.)
I hear ya :)
I just posted on my blocky findings on the other thread ??
some more testing will be done including hooking up my HTPC later this week and my mac to double test it
since I could see it with my HD8300 box on component and not using my DVD player I have to hope its the box and signal that was recorded ??

Honu:

Just curious....how are you hooking your computer (mac) to the Sammy ?

Thanks

Ralph

I havent hooked it up yet ;)
but the HTPC is a win based setup that has a ati9800AIW card so it will go with DVI to test out this blocky issue and the pc input it has to try that the Mac I will hook up also just to see how it handles the blocky issue also ?
the Mac I will hook up DVI

"No. What IS true is that for the $3,995 retail price of this product you would be hard pressed to find better performance."

Ken Witcomb,

I have a Sony HS10 and have been considering replacing with a HS51A but this PJ caught my attention at its new price. Have you calibrated the HS51 or 51A and can you comment on how it compares to the Samsung? I have an 80" wide Firehawk 1.35 in a light controlled theater room.

Thanks for all of your informative and helpful posts to this thread.

JV

JV I had a 51 I have heard the 51a was quite a bit better ??
but in my eyes the 51 was no where close to my current DT-400 or the Mits HC3000 and both of those are beaten firmly by the Samsung
I did not have them pro calibrated did it myself with Avia
but think I have a good eye for color etc..

If I had to rate them on some kinda point scale I might say the
Sony 51 was a 5-6
dt-400 is a 7-7.5
Mits is a 7.5-8
samsung is a 10
that rating is saying the samsung is the best I have seen in my home yet
but hope that gives a idea of how much better the steps were in my eyes

- Cross-post from "First Confirmed Problem with Samsung H710AE" -

OK guys, here's the scoop from Joe Kane.

The banding/contouring issue is a limitation of 8-bit processing, which is actually a color-wheel limitation of all single-chip DLP engines (3-chips engines have 14-bit processing). Because it's a color-wheel issue (not solved by 8 segments wheels either) additional processing resolution in the electronics can't eliminate it. The reason that it's not as noticable on component is probably bandwidth limitations of the component input, essentially masking it. That is also why this projector will show it's best resolution with DVI as a source.

Now that that's out of the way, there are several things I'd like to emphasize:

First, this chassis was designed to deliver performance far beyond other DLPs, allowing for the first time reference-quality colorimetry and CRT-like gamma

Second, this chassis was originally designed to sell for $10,000+

Third, this projector (like all others) is not perfect. There are always tradeoffs that have to be made.

Fourth, This projector's performance is just stunning (with the right screen, of course)!!

Finally, I took delivery of mine today!


Ken Whitcomb

- Fourth, This projector's performance is just stunning (with the right screen, of course)!!

Finally, I took delivery of mine today!


Whoa - that's a heckuva'n endorsement!

edited -

will someone please explain the 8-bit video processing and how it relates to both colors and shades of grey please?

...edited...

The other question I have is if DVI is limited to 8-bit resolution, no further processing will help it as it's limited (bottleneck) by the DVI. Doesn't the HDMI connector support 10-bit resolution? Am I on the right track here?

[QUOTE=Mitch P.]if we have an 8-bit processor which shows banding (only supports 256 shades of grey), why can't we improve this with 10-bit processing?

My question as well. I thought a good outboard scaler like the DVDO would be a suitable solution.

...edited...

I'm waiting for an answer too Mitch. I asked Ken the same question in the other 710AE thread but have not gotten a reply.

...edited...

Mitch I am sure someone can write this up better so here goes

DVI 8 bit
HDMI can be 8 bit or 10 bit and also 12 if its YCbCr if I have my facts straight ;)

8 bit per color though not total ;)
and DVI uses a RGB color sample or path ? whatever you want to call it ;)
you can also say 8 bit RGB or 24 bit per pixel color depth or true color
(someone correct me if I am wrong but without looking up)
might want to google some of this ??

usually higher bit depth is used as a buffer and usually tossed away this is a general idea as its not tossed away but used in dif ways ?

also the higher bit processing has to happen on both ends of electronics of course which depends on many things

also probs like mine I have to think could be caused from a longer hdmi>dvi cable and the crapy 8300 box and the signal it recorded ? others having the prob I am not sure
in 12 hours I have only seen it in 2 spots once on lost in the sky and it was not bad had to go back and look for it ;) and once on that caribbean show
so for me its more a trying to chase it down see whats up
and as I have said the pic quality is so so so so so nice that I would rather look at a great pic all the time with once in a great while the chance that some blocky patterns might show than look at a pic that is not as good quality and noisier in the darker scenes and not have the color accuracy etc.. all the time and maybe not have it show the rare blocky pattern

also I have not had in my house any $10K and up projectors but want to in a few years get a 3 chip 1080P set and at the same time I want the best pic I can get for my budget
on a side note I am sure if I got in a super high end 3 chip I would somehow want one ;) hehehehe


so there can also be lots of causes to these artifacts we are seen
cables ? sources ? etc...
also I dont see any banding but more a blocking which is not lack of color but just the way it gets put together ;) so to me the banding and blocking are two dif things in my book ;)

think of it this way printing a nice quality jpg you wont/shouldnt see banding but you might see blocky chunks do to jpg compression if you push the size to big
so my analogy is more like the projector is showing us the errors we dont normally see or that are smoothed out

again some of this could be wrong I hope not but could be :) I am only human and coming out of my scrambled brain so double check it ;) hehehe
and if I am wrong someone will correct it or give there thoughts

thanks Honu :) Still wondering from some calibrators out there if I'm either on base or off base.

heheheh I hear ya

also want to say I am sure some might see banding ?? but I am not ;) just a few blockies on those shows and so far thats it

and like anything DVI is or will be the bottleneck if enough data is fed to it.
but we dont live in a perfect world so if the signal is bad to start with it has no buffer to work with ;)

or as I say bend a spoon enough times it will break !

The optoma H72 is not in the same league as the samsung H710. This is one of those hidden 'gems' that has come out of the closet. The clean and virtually 'noise free' image' this projector produces is stunning.

Are people convinced that the 710 will also be better than the Optoma HD81, their 1080p unit, that will come out later this year? It will be more expensive, though, so maybe it's not a relevant comparison. I guess it still seems to me that 1080p will be especially important in front projection set-ups, simply because people tend to sit so close to them (i.e., at the THX 'recommended' distance of 1.5 x screen width = 1.3 x screen diagonal); for comparison, with RPTV's, it is the 'conventional wisdom' that 1080p becomes significant at viewing distances closer than 2 x screen diagonal.

Bill my thoughts ;)

I am sure the Optoma will be better
wasnt the HD81 suposed to be around $10,000 or so MSRP ??

and yes I agree that more resolution is always nicer for sure
I think I want to let them come down a little bit before I splurge and my wife would demand it ;

Bill my thoughts ;)

I am sure the Optoma will be better
wasnt the HD81 suposed to be around $10,000 or so MSRP ??

and yes I agree that more resolution is always nicer for sure
I think I want to let them come down a little bit before I splurge and my wife would demand it ;

Yes, the MSRP is $10K (according to the thread devoted to it), but folks think the street price will be ~3/4 of that pretty soon. As described to date, it doesn't have all the nice features (e.g., lens shift) that many people want, but the rumors are that it may whenit actually appears. We'll see. And I presume it will be at least a year before Samsung has a 1080p version of the 710.

Tonight I hooked up the HTPC to the 710 via DVI. WOW!!! what a difference!!!

with the right content, DVI is amazing. On DVDs you see every nasty flaw. My old CRT had a way of smoothing out all that crap.

I guess my next big purchase will be the digital Mosquito.

I can't imagine how good HDDVD/Blueray is going to look on this. Especially when Hollywood stops shooing on 35mm.

I looked really hard for the banding reported in the other thread. I think is is just compression artifacts. Compared to all the mosquito noise and ringing, I think the banding is very minor.

If you want to see something really ugly, just look at the low bandwith digital cable channels.

My only real concern are rainbows. I hope I can learn to ignor them.

~Jay

so looking inside the lens the iris inside seems to be part way closed all the time ??
on my other projector I could see it open and close more
changing settings I see in the menu area dont seem to effect this at all
not sure if I am seen it wide open but it appears to be partially closed ?
so part of me wonders if there is a way to get into the service menu and try to do something like the ruby light canon thread and change it ??

so I wonder if anyone can find out and post how to get into the service menu and some info on it once in such as iris control

now I could be seen it wrong but curious what others see ??
or maybe it is open and thats the way it is might have to try to grab a shot of it

If you have 10 bit (10 bits per color per pixel, meaning 30 bits total) processing when 8 bits (8 bits/color/pixel, meaning 24 bits total) are sent, they would perform some type of algorithm in order to scale the 24 bits to 30 bits and to choose a suitable value for the 30 bits. (Or, the processing could be performed from 8 to 10 bits, and the same thing would happen.) I don't think that the bit depth matters much, as 8 bits per color would still give you 16,777,216 (2^24) different color levels. This blocking seems to a function of the machine's processing (including the color wheel) and not any limitation in the bit depth. In other words, upping the bits to 30 won't have a measureable gain.

The Samsung press release stated:

Designed to suit the needs of the home theatre market, Samsung’s H710 features a 250W lamp with ‘theatre’ and ‘bright’ modes to properly illuminate screens from five to ten feet wide and its six-segment colour wheel further minimises visible sequential colour, increases contrast ratio and ensures simulated 10-bit processing.

I wonder if this is related to the issue that some people are seeing.

Hi guys!

I have been very interested in trying to follow your thread. I am building my first HT room and I'm shopping for my first pj.

I am interested in the Samsung 710 and maybe the IN76. Maybe a Panasonic 900 but I think I really would prefer a dlp pj.

You guys are scaring me a little bit with your converstations. Please realize that I am 41 yr old dental hygienist soccer mom with no "electronic" experience at all. I am wondering if all of you Samsung 710 users regret your choice in buying this product due to your DVI issues,etc. I will only be able to use this pj via component at this time. Do you think I can still get a great picture?

I will be using my HT for dvd's and NY Yankee games. My room is total light control. My ceiling height is limited to 7' so the lens shift feature on the 710 really attracts me.

Any advice for this newbie soccer mom would be great. You guys are the best!

Kari

Does the samsung's DVI input expect to receive PC Levels (0-255) or Studio Levels (16-240) or can it select either appropriately? I know the IN76 can choose between the two.

Reason being is that my current projector only accepts PC Levels and I've had issues with HDMI output sources.

Kari,

I think we are just nit-picking, that's what videophiles do. For example if you look at all the complaints about the Ruby you would think that it was an absolute disaster from Sony, yet if you read any review from popular A/V magazines they all praise it is the best projector money can buy, and they call it a bargin at $10,000.

THe Samsung with the right screen, and proper ISF calibration is an absolute steal. IF you were to weigh the plusses vs. the minuses the plethora of posatives would drastically tip the scales.

I was also very worried about DVI performance so I bought a cheap DVI cable to test it before I bought a long cable and switch that I would need to make everything work.

I think DVI was significantly better. As Alan pointed out, digital will highlight any flaws if the source, but with a great source DVI is stunning. HD-DVD and Blueray is just around the corner, great sources are very near.

Last night I spent about an hour looking for the banding that people are complaining about. All I could see was some mosquito noise on Discovery HD and InHD.

If AVS is still offering the Samsung at the introductory price then I don't think you will have any regrets.

~Jay

Kari Ditto Jay ;)

I have only seen the prob twice in 14 hours of watching and each time it was about 1 second ? so far so its not really a prob more a curious annoyance to a otherwise amazing picture
that is how much I have seen it at least ! others maybe more ?
switching the same shows to component to watch only the caribbean show also showed it but I really had to look for it so I think that was just a bad signal and as mentioned the cable box is not the best source all the time

my wife loves the pic and was truly loving it over the other projectors we have tried (we have had 5 in our home this month testing) did a bunch of back and forth with her and she cant believe how much more saturated and rich and 3d the shots are
being from Hawaii watching lost episode when they are walking in that tall grass it is the first time watching that scene that it looks real to me I could not believe how good it reproduced the colors and this is out of the box with just the contrast and brightness adjusted over a PJ I have had for a while and tweaked the heck out of
also its the most quiet one we have tested to date ! and its amazing how much just a touch quieter can make things sound in a room

go for it you will be so happy you did :)
I am picky super picky but like many I have a budget and am not rich beyond all dreams so I cant just buy a 10 or 20 k PJ or I would and if I did I am sure the pic would be amazing

Hi guys!

I have been very interested in trying to follow your thread. I am building my first HT room and I'm shopping for my first pj.

I am interested in the Samsung 710 and maybe the IN76. Maybe a Panasonic 900 but I think I really would prefer a dlp pj.

You guys are scaring me a little bit with your converstations. Please realize that I am 41 yr old dental hygienist soccer mom with no "electronic" experience at all. I am wondering if all of you Samsung 710 users regret your choice in buying this product due to your DVI issues,etc. I will only be able to use this pj via component at this time. Do you think I can still get a great picture?

I will be using my HT for dvd's and NY Yankee games. My room is total light control. My ceiling height is limited to 7' so the lens shift feature on the 710 really attracts me.

Any advice for this newbie soccer mom would be great. You guys are the best!

Kari

Kari, I've seen the 710AE put through its paces by professional installers and calibrators. They go "hmmm." They go "ahhh." Then they say, "That's really good."

You will love it. I'm thinking of buying one, and I don't even have a room where I can use it!

Kari, welcome to the forum, my wife and I live in wisconsin now, im originally from Longisland New York so if youre from back east you score points with me lol. I think we are feeling an obligation to try to set your mind at ease because youre wondering if you should make this purchase or not, mine will be arriving this week, do not let what youre hearing here deter you from this great projector, I do some theater installations for friends and family and recently flew to New Jersey to complete a dedicated theater for my brother and his wife, I installed a full basement theater in 3days including audio and mounted a panasonic AE900 projector and it was one of the best lcd projectors ive seen, now with that said I have heard people compare these two projectors (among others) and it was said that the panasonic wasnt even in the same league. Understand this... Joe Kane who is an industry video guru helped develop this projector, his knowledge has resulted in many industry standards one of his famous achievments was when he helped stewart filmscreen develop the material for their now famous studiotek 130 screen fabric so if its good enough for Joe Kane to put his name on then its good enough for me, also realize that the first version of this projector (H700) had a msrp of $10,000 and this new improved version is available at a much lower price so think of this as one of those rare gifts. I also want to add that I myself currently have a hd2+ projector with dvi, it shows a great picuture and I do see the banding at times which I was told way back that it was a limitation of DVI, it doesnt bother me much at all! and I have to emphaze that and its because the scenes where I may see it (not all the time) last mere seconds if that much and I have NEVER had anyone comment or even notice. I think it would be a mistake if you didnt give this thing a chance, dont listen to us complain, we have nothing better to do :).

I have a favor to ask of you guys/gals, can anyone provide a picture of the mount thats included with the Samsung projector? im making a custom wood platform and I need to know what mount comes with the unit to determine if it will work with what im making, if a picture cant be provided the manufacturer and model # should be fine also...thanks in advance

Here is the mount that was sent with mine.
http://www.mountsandmore.com/Premier-Mounts-PBC-UM-PM1211.html

Brad

Beware, the premiere mount that comes with the pj does not work with the pj out of the box, at least mine didn't. You need two longer screws to bolt the spider legs onto the rear of the unit because the unit has a spacer that insets the threads too deep for the included screws to go down into.

Be prepared to take one of the included screws to the hardware store and get two longer ones with the same thread.

Not a big deal but a little surprise. By the way they are metric screws.

Yes Romy is right I forgot about the longer screws for the front of the projector.

Brad

Jay M are you advocating I pull my HTPC out of the closet? Hmm ... do I want to spend more time playing again????? I guess theatertek is again in my future. What video card do you recommend for DVI. I have a Radeon 9600 in my old htpc.

Kari,

This is a bit redundant to the point that Jay M made but there is not a display device made that doesn't have issues and or trade-offs. If one looks for problems they can always be found, just look critically at a film in the movie theater and you will see many issues. Yet most people can go to the movies and just enjoy the experience. It appears that you have done due diligence by reading what the people here have to say and now is the time to forget looking for fault and to enjoy!

Does the samsung's DVI input expect to receive PC Levels (0-255) or Studio Levels (16-240) or can it select either appropriately?
My testing confirms that the Samsung DVI input expects to see studio levels. When fed PC levels, brightness and contrast levels need to altered to compensate (can be stored in a User preset).

Testing notes:
Correct DVI video levels were output from a Sencore VP403 HD generator. PC levels were obtained from a Samsung SIR-T165 HD receiver fed (via FireWire) by a JVC HM-DH30000 D-VHS VCR running the D-Theater version of Digital Video Essentials.


Ken Whitcomb

Is that why the component input is darker at default levels? Or is it unrelated? When I hook up my htpc over DVI does that mean I will have to alter the settings due to pc levels being different?

Is that why the component input is darker at default levels? Or is it unrelated?My component input default also is slightly low. I'll check the service menu when I calibrate Brad's projector tomorrow for component input brightness/contrast offsets.

When I hook up my htpc over DVI does that mean I will have to alter the settings due to pc levels being different?Yes, otherwise the blacks will be crushed.


Ken Whitcomb

Ok I got my Stewart Grayhawk RS 83.75" wide in 3 days :) . Thanks to Jason here at AVS for the great price and service (I had only changed my mind on size about 4 times :p) The screen is a real light gray. The screen really helped with the blacks. I was happy with the blacks before with my Studiotek 130 screen, just felt like I was missing something compared to the CRT I had before. I know no screen is going to give me the blacks I got from my CRT but the grayhawk RS really helped. Now I have something in the middle better than the DLP on Studiotek 130 and not quit as good as CRT.

The Grayhawk RS doesn't give up any of the great colors, snap or depth and the whites are still white. Although screen size needs to stay on the smaller size with a negative gain screen.

I will report more after Sunday. Which is the day Ken Whitcomb will come down and calibrate the projector. I cant wait to see the thing after Ken gets done :) . I know the 710AE is great out of the box, but calibration is the one thing that I can have done to get the most out of the projector. Calibration is just like light control, picking the right screen and calibrating the levels on our audio systems it really something that needs to be done to get the most out of any display devise.


Brad

Ken anyway you can share how to enter the service menu ?

also up above I was curious about the Iris ? if that is what I am seeing when I look into the lens seems like its part way closed ?
curious if there is anyway to open it up more or not ?
and in the service menu what would control that if you know ;)
(curious if it could be like the ruby light canon thread and we can get a touch more brightness out of it)

thanks in advance and if you cant share openly for some reason understand or you could PM me and if you cant share at all ;) no worries
again look forward to reading your thoughts I am really enjoying the pic quality

Well thanks to all who responded to my question concerning the mount for the samsung, I wasnt expecting until this week sometime but as it would have it the doorbell just rang and it was fedex with the projector and the mount so I guess I will get to see first hand what this thing looks like, It wont be mounted right away since like I said I have a great projector hanging in the theater (digital projection Ivision HD) and im still working on my custom wood platform to mount the unit so I will just continue to listen to what you guys think of your units, again thanks for the help.

Is there a calibration system like Steve Smallcombe's SMART Calibration System (no longer available) that can be used with the Samsung to achieve levels of calibration beyond the basic setup?

The reason I ask is because I do not live in the U.S., and, over here there are no ISF-certified folks to do the calibration for me. :(

Thanks.

Ken, any way you can share how to enter the service menu?Even though I'm sure this information will get out there eventually, I'm not comfortable with providing the means for someone to potentially screw up their projector.

also up above I was curious about the Iris? if that is what I am seeing when I look into the lens seems like its part way closed?
curious if there is anyway to open it up more or not?This is often refered to as a "cats eye" iris and is fixed.


Ken Whitcomb

Ken

ahhh thanks so much ;)
totally respect ya for that and no worries ;) learning a lot about the PJ world coming from plasmas I am having so much fun with this

Jay M are you advocating I pull my HTPC out of the closet? Hmm ... do I want to spend more time playing again????? I guess theatertek is again in my future. What video card do you recommend for DVI. I have a Radeon 9600 in my old htpc.

After all that testing you have already done, what's a few more hours?? ;)

I believe my HTPC has a Radeon 9600 SE. In my case DVI vs. VGA there is no contest. THe desktop, photos, and Ntest test patterns all look amazing! I actually giggled when I went through the various patterns in Ntest.

I am sort of commited to my MCE HTPC. I just started building a media server and already have over 100 DVDs ripped. The convenience that offers I think will outweigh any benefit that a reference DVD player such as the Oppo may offer.

I had plans on doing some serious comparisons between the Samsung and my 6PG CRT, but the Samsung is so good, I can't wait to take the CRT down and properly mount the Samsung.

I still haven't actually sat down and watched a movie yet... maybe tomorrow.

~Jay

Even though I'm sure this information will get out there eventually, I'm not comfortable with providing the means for someone to potentially screw up their projector.


Ken Whitcomb

Ken,
Hasn't that projector already been tweaked to videophile perfection at the factory so that even Joe Kane himself wouldn't need to go into the service menu?

Also... maybe this belongs in it's own thread, but can you explain what the RGB offset settings do?

And using Avia or VE via DVI how do I adjust the Hue?

thanks,
~Jay

My testing confirms that the Samsung DVI input expects to see studio levels. When fed PC levels, brightness and contrast levels need to altered to compensate (can be stored in a User preset).

SWEET!!!! :D Exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks Ken.

Just wanted to say thanks for all your reassuring words! This HT experience is all new for me and as you all know-this can be an expensive hobby. I am very excited about our new HT and can't seem to get the contractor's to move fast enough!!

I think I am pretty convinced that the Samsung is the pj I want. Do any of you know how long the intro price is available through AVS? I am hoping to hold off on my purchase a little longer since I'm still under construction.

Anyway, I have found your conversations really fun and I think I am learning alot. Gee, two months ago I didn't know anything at all about HT setup, throw ratio.offset,etc,etc....

Funlvr,
Yes, we are from back east. My husband is a LIslander too(Suffolk Co.) and if 1965 has anything to do with your birthdate you are the same age.

Thanks everyone-I'll keep "listening!"

Hasn't that projector already been tweaked to videophile perfection at the factory so that even Joe Kane himself wouldn't need to go into the service menu?While it's true that the factory calibration is one of the best out there, it can't take into account variables in sources and screens. Also, one of the things that JKP had Samsung design into this projector is that it can be measured with a photo-colorimeter and then it computes it's own primaries (SMPTE C, HDTV, & EBU), gray scale, and gamma tables. Of course, this requires a Minolta CS-200 or Photo Research PR-650 ($12K+ test instumentation). Hopefully, some of you will still have enough money left in your budget to have it calibrated by someone who uses this equipment.

And using Avia or VE via DVI how do I adjust the Hue?There is no hue adjustment in DVI, since it is RGB.


Ken Whitcomb

I am new to the home theater game. I am considering the H79, Samsung 710 and Runco CL 420. Keep it simple which would give the best performance in a theater room?




From what I've read on this thread so far, this Samsung PJ seems quite impressive! I was considering buying a H79 but the samsung seems to be a better choice according to my taste. Placement will also be a lot easier in my HT room thanks to the great lens shift...and as a bonus, it seems to be less expensive than the H79...and even the H78Dc3!

Could anyone point me to the proper AVS person or place to get a price quote for this PJ?

I think I've found my next PJ...

Jay M it seems you and I come from the same camp. I also have a NEC 6pg Xtra sitting on the floor. I also giggled when I hooked up DVI instead of component. I guess when I get my htpc back online I may giggle again. By the way I am a grown MAN who will kick your a*s if you tell anyone about my giggling. :)

HeyKen: I saw the earlier comments on screen preferences but I have a dallite hipower 106" in a light controlled room and I would be shelf mounting the Samsung: what image problems might that present?

Thanks
Peter

Jmoore I think the H710 might be nicer but you are in this thread ;)

I was looking at the Optoma but the bulb issues freaked me out also the Runco is nice I have heard ? I think it was Jason who has seen both said the H710 might be a bit nicer pic so might want to read all the H710 threads

I would also say each one will be nice and work also many will ask you for room specifics ;) and screen etc....

but as many mentioned the H710 is amazing for the price

Jmoore I think the H710 might be nicer but you are in this thread ;)

I was looking at the Optoma but the bulb issues freaked me out also the Runco is nice I have heard ? I think it was Jason who has seen both said the H710 might be a bit nicer pic so might want to read all the H710 threads

I would also say each one will be nice and work also many will ask you for room specifics ;) and screen etc....

but as many mentioned the H710 is amazing for the price



What is a reasonable price to pay for the H710?

What is a reasonable price to pay for the H710?

the forum you are on is carrying them at a special intro price. Call them up and get a quote.

Only MSRP should be discussed here on the forum, this is evidenced by the fact that you have to contact AVS by phone to get their price. Unless we want these 2 threads closed, I suggest we stay away from discussing what prices people are paying using public posts. If you're curious what people have paid, PM them- that way the open dialog concerning the projector can stay alive.

Thankfully, these threads on the 710 have not yet degenerated into this projector vs. that projector pi$$ing contest like most of these threads do.

I'm glad that Ken has been posting some of his observations regarding this projector, he is one of the best and has reference-quality test equipment. I can say without reservation that if you're getting your projector calibrated by Ken- it will be as accurate as it possibly can be. I'm hoping to procure one of these projectors for myself within the next couple weeks- so maybe I can contribute a little more concerning the realities of the projector and its setup as well.

Dan

[QUOTE=Kamull]
Funlvr,
Yes, we are from back east. My husband is a LIslander too(Suffolk Co.) and if 1965 has anything to do with your birthdate you are the same age.
QUOTE]

Well I was actually born in 1964 but thats close enough, I lived in Deerpark up until a year and a half ago things are soooo much cheaper here in wisconsin, did I mention you arent required to have vehicle insurance here and that here in madison there are NO emissions testing? how do you think we can afford to build a dedicated theater :D , but we arent fools, we do carry full insurance, it costs us next to nothing. I dont think that anyone can find fault with this projector considering what people paid for it, mine arrived today and although I wont have it setup for a couple of days yet, if I see half of what im hearing then I will be very satisfied.

I am new to the home theater game. I am considering the H79, Samsung 710 and Runco CL 420. Keep it simple which would give the best performance in a theater room?


I questioned Jason about these comaparisons last week and he said he would take the Samsung 710

Funlvr1965,

I just broke it to my husband that I am planning on spending a bit more on our first pj than he originally thought. I told him all of the praise you HT junkies are giving this projector. He took the news quite well considering how painful it is for him to part with any cash!!! I can't wait to order my 710 and give it a test drive of my own.

We are from Smithtown but we also left the Island although we really miss the pizza!! Now we live upstate in the Lake George area.

Thanks again for the advice. I hope you and your wife enjoy your new 710!!

Kari

I saw the earlier comments on screen preferences but I have a dallite hipower 106" in a light controlled room and I would be shelf mounting the Samsung: what image problems might that present?I would recommend that you change the screen fabric to Cinema Vision, similar in gain to the Studiotek 130. High-gain screens have hot-spotting issues, and typically have poor spectral uniformity (they reflect different wavelengths of light unevenly). This would also widen your viewing cone.


Ken Whitcomb

High-gain screens have hot-spotting issues ...
Ken,

Have you tried the High Power? Retro-reflective screens are quite a bit different than angular-reflective screens when it comes to high gain and hotspotting. I don't know how far back he is sitting, but he mentioned shelf mount and if it isn't far behind then the High Power might have less hotspotting than the StudioTek 130 (which doesn't have a lot, but does have some). Depends on viewing distance and things.

--Darin

Thanks for your comments Darin and Ken: I will be sitting about 14' back from the screen and the projector will be about 13' back if that helps. I have never noticed any hot spotting with my 4805 but I imagine the Samsung pumps out more lumens than that. My screen is pull down so the only way I can change is replacement which I would like to avoid for cost reasons unless there is a compelling PQ argument ie I am prepared to give a little on PQ but not a lot.

Cheers
Peter

Ken,
Do you think a 100 inch diag DA-Lite HCCV screen will work ok with the Samsung? I know the thread states a gray screen should be reserved for a smaller size screen, but I really don't feel like buying a new screen...what would I be gaining/losing using the HCCV at 100 inches. My room has black ceiling and dark walls ...and total light control... Thanks, WJG

With your room and light conditions you are not going to gain much, if any with a gray screen. I'd go for the CV over the HCCV for your conditions unless you plan on watching with the lights on.

Bob

Thanks for your comments Darin and Ken: I will be sitting about 14' back from the screen and the projector will be about 13' back if that helps.I'm trying to figure out the layout that puts the projector on a shelf 1' closer than you, but that should give you good uniformity with the High Power. I have a pulldown High Power of the same size. You are welcome to come down and see my modified H79 on it with the projector just behind if you want.

--Darin

I just bought the samsung but my home theater room is at least 3 weeks away from finished.

In the meantime I would like to have a screen of about 120" diagonal. I have been doing some research, and there seems to be a huge selection of screens from which to choose. At the same time to get a decent enough screen of about 120" one has to spend some serious money. I am sure you have heard of goo paint of which Projector Central has a pretty possitive review, specially the white one.

Is this a good choice?. The results from the goo's website yields that I should get a white screen, and not a light gray with this projector, the room will be dark, like a theater. At this point it seems like a good alternative for me since I don't want to be restricted to a specific screen size, but the quality of the projected image it's just as important to me.

Any feedback will be very helpfull.

Is this a good choice?. The results from the goo's website yields that I should get a white screen, and not a light gray with this projector, the room will be dark, like a theater...Any feedback will be very helpfull.
The Goo product is very nice, particularly the white one. I have seen them compared to the StudioTek 130 and it performed quite well. Another viable solution is the High Power. Is your projector mounted above your head or is it close to your seated eye level (+/- 3 feet)?

The Goo product is very nice, particularly the white one. I have seen them compared to the StudioTek 130 and it performed quite well. Another viable solution is the High Power. Is your projector mounted above your head or is it close to your seated eye level (+/- 3 feet)?


The projector will be mounted above my head.

I am preparing to order electronics for my soon to be completed HT and have pretty much settled on this PJ. Planning on a 100 inch wide screen with a front row seat at about 150 inches.

I am now trying to decide what to do for source components.

CD:
-I have a Sony DVP-CX995V. Will this DVD changer provide an optimal feed for this PJ? Do I need a scaler, or is the scaler in the PJ suffiicent?
-Would I be better off with an Oppo or an HTPC?

OTA HD Tuner: Do they very much in PQ?

HD Satellite receiver vs. HD Cable: Any thoughts on these? I'm in Plano (Dallas suburb) served by Comcast. I have Comcast hd cable presently and I'm not very satisfied due to (1) frequend dropouts and (2) only a single tuner in box... can't record one thing and watch another.

TIA.

Mike

I am very serious about purchasing a h710. Now, I need a solid 100 in retractable screen to finish the system. I was considering a screen innovation screen ,but I believe it is not tension tabbed thus I need to look for other options. Any suggestion?

I'm trying to figure out the layout that puts the projector on a shelf 1' closer than you, but that should give you good uniformity with the High Power. I have a pulldown High Power of the same size. You are welcome to come down and see my modified H79 on it with the projector just behind if you want.

--Darin
Hey Darin: I have a concrete pillar in the middle of the back wall of my room that justs out about 12". I have a stereo rack that sits centred on that pillar containing my projector on lower shelve. I have recliner chairs on each side of the pillar that are set back about 1' behind the pillar. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks for the offer to view your H79; I will PM you ito make arrangements if I am able to come down to Seattle.

In the meantime, I am feeling pretty confident about the hi power given your assessment.

Cheers
Peter

Have you tried the High Power? Retro-reflective screens are quite a bit different than angular-reflective screens when it comes to high gain and hotspotting.The High Power surface seems promising for personal viewing, but I think many here may want a viewing cone larger than 30 degrees to accommodate their guests and family. The projector placement requirement may also be a limitation for some users.


Ken Whitcomb

Thaks Ken: I will do some measuing to see what I have on the ground.

Peter

The High Power surface seems promising for personal viewing, but I think many here may want a viewing cone larger than 30 degrees to accommodate their guests and family. The projector placement requirement may also be a limitation for some users.


Ken Whitcomb

Is this '30 degreees' 15 degrees to the left and right of head-on, or 30 degrees to the left and right?

Wow, did you guys see Jason's post (Sticky) on his measurements of the 710? ~600 Lumens, calibrated, in HT mode, considerably more than the 465 reported in projectorcentral. With this level of brightness, a 110"diag Firehawk would produce 21 ftL (and the HP would put out 67 ftL!) This level of brightness sounds like it would make the 710 more than just a pj for dedicated light-controlled theaters, but feasible in a general purpose den with some ambient light. So one could use it both as a gen purpose tv, and then turn out the lights in the evening for a first class HT.

Related to this: I read that the Firehawk is essentially equivalent to the Studiotech in a 'lights out' situation (they have about the same gain). If that really correct? I.e., when one does have a light-controlled situation, does the FH really perform as accurately in colors, etc., as the ST?

Is this '30 degreees' 15 degrees to the left and right of head-on, or 30 degrees to the left and right?I'm sorry I couldn't be more specific, but their website does not elaborate. However, judging from the Cinema Vision spec of 45 degrees, I would assume that it's 30 degrees to either side. What would really be useful is a gain diagram or chart showing how much falloff occurs as the off-axis angle increases. Here is the link:

Da-Lite screen surfaces (http://www.dalite.com/dalitehometheater/products/selecting4.php)


Ken Whitcomb

Do you think a 100 inch diag DA-Lite HCCV screen will work ok with the Samsung? I know the thread states a gray screen should be reserved for a smaller size screen, but I really don't feel like buying a new screen...what would I be gaining/losing using the HCCV at 100 inches. My room has black ceiling and dark walls ...and total light controlYou will probably have to run the lamp in the High output mode (default is Low), but otherwise you'll be fine.


Ken Whitcomb

Funlvr1965,

I just broke it to my husband that I am planning on spending a bit more on our first pj than he originally thought. I told him all of the praise you HT junkies are giving this projector. He took the news quite well considering how painful it is for him to part with any cash!!! I can't wait to order my 710 and give it a test drive of my own.

We are from Smithtown but we also left the Island although we really miss the pizza!! Now we live upstate in the Lake George area.

Thanks again for the advice. I hope you and your wife enjoy your new 710!!

Kari

The 710 sould be just the ticket for those loooong Ticonderoga winters!

Does anyone know if the 710 can sync to 72hz? I finnaly sat down and watched a movie last night. The motion wasn't as smooth as I am used to with CRT at 72hz. My guess is that I am seeing judder.

Overall I am very pleased with this projector. I am still hoping I can learn to ignor the rainbows. And the black level only bothers me those few times when there is supposed to be a blackout in the movie. I may consider a grey screen, although I really don't like the way they look.

On a positive note, I am continually blown away by the color! I had no idea I was missing so many colors. DVDs have limited sharpness, but this projector really accels when DVD is at it's best, even when DVDs are at their worst I still think it look great.
Video based HD is stunning!

It was a challenge for me and a friend to take down the CRT projector, as a contrast There was a point where I had the new projector in one hand while I adjusted the ladder with the other hand! The mount is only temporary, I think I will just run a pipe into the ceiling and get rid of the big frame I needed for the CRT.

~Jay

Funlvr1965,

I just broke it to my husband that I am planning on spending a bit more on our first pj than he originally thought. I told him all of the praise you HT junkies are giving this projector. He took the news quite well considering how painful it is for him to part with any cash!!! I can't wait to order my 710 and give it a test drive of my own.

We are from Smithtown but we also left the Island although we really miss the pizza!! Now we live upstate in the Lake George area.

Thanks again for the advice. I hope you and your wife enjoy your new 710!!

Kari


Kari the state of New York (downstate) has gotten ridiculously expensive, hopefully you guys find quality of life better upstate which is usually the reported case and yes my wife and I miss he pizza also, more on topic, my Samsung arrived on saturday to my surprise and im currently working on constructing a different wood base for mounting, our ceiling is about 8', the first thing I noticeD was how LARGE this thing is, Ive been spoiled by the size of my first projector which I still have, check the attached pic to see what I call "david and goliath", the universal mount that comes with it has a pipe which makes the projector hand waayyyy too low, I had to remove the pipe and customize a new 1/2 " flange attachment I found at homedepot and the I had to get longer screws and unfortunately the heads of the screws were too big to fit down the aluminum tube on the mount so I had to have the heads ground down, the install still goes on, Im curious to know how others are making out with their installs maybe they can share some pics, I know Jason uses a chief mount which looks like it brings it pretty close to the ceiling, unless you have 9 ft or higher ceilings I cant image using the mount that comes with the projector with the pole, I included some pics

heres the comparison of my first projector and the samsung

That's a funny picture. When I put my samsung next to my old pj it is the opposite. I have to use a dolly to move my old NEC PG.

That's twice I've seen mention of rainbows in regard to this machine. Any others care to sound off?

Also, how far is it from the back of the unit (with plugs) to the front legs (I need for shelf design.

thanks in advance.

That's twice I've seen mention of rainbows in regard to this machine. Any others care to sound off?

Also, how far is it from the back of the unit (with plugs) to the front legs (I need for shelf design.

thanks in advance.

I think I have just become overly sensative to rainbows. When Joe Kane was showing the early version of this projector at CES two years ago only one person out 15 in the room could see rainbows. At that time I couldn't, nor could Joe Kane. I wouldn't call this projector problematic... I think I'm the one with the problem. ;)

I recently saw a BenQ DLP with an 8 segment color wheel. That was just as bad, if not worse.

~Jay

I chime in on the Benq. Rainbows was worse on the BenQ for me. It does not exist on the Samsung. I cannot explain why but if you have to comment on it then it is there. That is what happened with me and the BenQ. With the Sammy I don't notice it even once.

Jkirk
I have yet to see any rainbows :)

distance from front feet to rear is about 14 3/4 inch this is from the center of the front feet
also where the plugs are is recessed in about 1 1/4 inches so that helps things not stick out as much (so add 1/2 inch to the front of the feet)
I have mine on a 20 inch deep open shelf and fits nice without any real heavy bending of the cables

from the center of the front feet I think you would want at least 16 inches ? depending on how much you want the cables to bend and how long your connectors are etc....

from the center of the front feet to the front of the lens is about 2 inches maybe a touch less so might give you a idea if its going to hang out that much depending on the shelf you build or get


if you go to this page
http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/projectors/hometheatreprojector/sph710aemxedc.asp
and then scroll down you can see a pic of the PJ backside and see what I mean about the recessed plug area
also the e-brochure has some more pics of it

you can also see the rear area here in Jasons pics just scroll down a couple
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655787

Thanks Honu and others. The people representing this forum are truly first class.

John

Hey everyone I posted this over in the other samsung thread but I figured I would try here also to see if anyone had any idea, this is what I wrote....
Is anyone having a problem using the samsung with their HD cablebox ? I have a motorola (moxi DVR) and im connected to the samsung via component, the picture goes in and out like its not synching with the box, I verified that the component input on the projector does work by hooking it up to my denon 5910 and I do get a picture but it wont hold a signal when I hook it up to the samsung and im using the same component cable, I still have my previous projector and I hooked that up to the HD cable box via component and absolutely no problem so im not sure why the picture on samsung keeps going in and out almost like a handshaking problem.