One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread [Text View] - Page 119

Doug Blackburn

09-11-10, 04:42 PM

Can someone plese help with my PS3 questions:
1. Whe i set the "audio options" on my ps3 to include all the PCM "speeds" my reciever wont let me change sound fields (theater, live, etc) I have to only check the lowest mhz box and it will let me change them- whats the importance of those different mhz rates?
2. is there a max size of hard drive i can upgrade my older 40 gig ps3 to? (i am assuming its sata)
3. has sony ever "upgraded" the processor/video in newer models- or just the same technology as day one in them?
4. assuming the above audio output modes, which one is "best" I am using optical now

thanks!!

The PS3 will send up to 192kHz... if your AVR doesn't have 24/192 DACs, it can't handle what the PS3 is sending when you enable the higher sample frequencies. For example, your receiver may have 24/96 DACs which can handle 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96k speeds but NOT 176.4 and 192 speeds.

Some of the goofy surround modes like the ones you mention only work for 44.1k or 48k input frequencies. Check your manual (though it may not clearly say one way or the other).

If you are using the optical output, you can't even get 176.4 or 192 to travel through and optical cable. So you'd have to back-off your speed settings to settings that are "legal" for optical... 44.1, and 48, though DTS bitstreams could be up to 24/96.

pglenn

09-12-10, 10:49 AM

I have my PS3 running through my receiver using hdmi then on to my TV. However the HDMI on my TV has stopped working. has anybody used one of these two products for converting HDMI to component? I prefer keeping all my devices running through HDMI to the receiver.

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-RCA-Component-AV-Converter/dp/B002WBOQPU

or this

http://www.amazon.com/HDFury2-HDMI-Component-YPbPr-Converter/dp/B003LLGB62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1284306160&sr=8-1

drhankz

09-12-10, 10:55 AM

pglenn

09-12-10, 11:26 AM

Darin

09-12-10, 11:44 AM

The first device you linked to will not give you HD. The HDFury is the only decive *I* know of that will convert copy protected HD content from HDMI to component.

WhatHappend

09-12-10, 01:17 PM

The first device you linked to will not give you HD. The HDFury is the only decive *I* know of that will convert copy protected HD content from HDMI to component.

Where did you read that device doesn't do HD? It advertises up to 1080p for movies.

Here is another device that has optical sound and VGA output too:

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Ypbpr-Component-RGB-Converter/dp/B002SFT3ZI

pglenn

09-12-10, 02:44 PM

Where did you read that device doesn't do HD? It advertises up to 1080p for movies.

Here is another device that has optical sound and VGA output too:

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Ypbpr-Component-RGB-Converter/dp/B002SFT3ZI

all the linked products, including yours, state at least 1080i which is fine by me. just bit concerned that many reports state the pictures are darker for each

gwsat

09-13-10, 09:40 AM

Blu-Ray will not work over Component
uh, of COURSE it will, I dont know of ANY blu-ray players that DONT have component out. resolution and audio choices may be a but limited is all... but I dont want to debate on bluray/component... only want replies on using the two products I linked to above for HDMI-to-component.
drhankz is right. The only significant differences between Blu-ray discs and most other forms of HD are (1) 1080p video resolution instead of 1080i and (2) lossless HD audio instead of the lossy kind produced by all other 5.1 codecs. The only way to get both 1080p video and lossless HD audio from a Blu-ray disc is to connect the BD player to an AV receiver with an HDMI cable. A component video connection is limited to 1080i resolution and an optical or digital audio connection, which must be used with component video, can't carry a lossless HD codec.

blacklion

09-13-10, 09:50 AM

drhankz is right. The only significant differences between Blu-ray discs and most other forms of HD are (1) 1080p video resolution instead of 1080i and (2) lossless HD audio instead of the lossy kind produced by all other 5.1 codecs. The only way to get both 1080p video and lossless HD audio from a Blu-ray disc is to connect the BD player to an AV receiver with an HDMI cable. A component video connection is limited to 1080i resolution and an optical or digital audio connection, which must be used with component video, can't carry a lossless HD codec.

The OP (pglenn) stated -
resolution and audio choices may be a but limited is all... but I dont want to debate on bluray/component... only want replies on using the two products I linked to above for HDMI-to-component.

- from which it can be deduced that the OP [pglenn] -

1. already knows that BD component output from PS3 is 1080i

2. is not interested in discussions about 1080p vs 1080i or HDMI vs component and 'only want replies on using the two products [he] linked to above for [converting] HDMI-to-component'

pglenn

09-13-10, 09:58 AM

thank you, blacklion

Darin

09-13-10, 10:03 AM

Where did you read that device doesn't do HD?

Sorry, I somehow looked at that and read it as being a component/composite converter. :o

Pugnax555

09-13-10, 10:14 AM

pglenn, the first device from your original post makes no mention of being HDCP compliant. The Amazon description (or lack of) for the HDFury2 makes no mention either, but we know that the device will definitely do the job.

That said, the box that WhatHappend linked to up there does explicitly state that it's HDCP-compliant, and it looks like it should do what you need. For half the price of the HDFury, I'd go with that one first and then return it for the HDFury if it doesn't work out.

rdclark

09-13-10, 10:35 AM

A component video connection is limited to 1080i resolution and an optical or digital audio connection, which must be used with component video, can't carry a lossless HD codec.

What bearing does the video connection have on what's possible for audio? Even the PS3 lets you use HDMI for audio and component for video, as do the other players I've used.

gwsat

09-13-10, 02:04 PM

What bearing does the video connection have on what's possible for audio? Even the PS3 lets you use HDMI for audio and component for video, as do the other players I've used.
In my experience, no one who has access to HDMI connections has any interest in using component for video and HDMI for audio. Under what circumstances would such a combination make sense?

The point of my post about the limitations of component video and optical or digital audio was to expand on what drhanz had said. I understood that pglenn had no interest in the issue but I thought that others might be.

Erock1

09-13-10, 02:18 PM

I was hoping someone might have an idea about this problem I just started having streaming Netflix via my PS3. :(

I do not have any problems connecting to Netflix with my PS3. I can also access my Netflix queue without issue. The problem begins after a movie is retrieved. It downloads OK but when it starts to play I only get the audio. No video. My TV displays an invalid mode or format message.

I have my PS3 connected to my AVR via HDMI. All SD and Blu-Ray movies play fine from the PS3, both video & audio so I'm thinking some setting got changed in the PS3.

Anyone?
TIA

xtc

09-13-10, 02:50 PM

drhankz

09-13-10, 03:13 PM

I didn't get a reply the first time around, so hoping someone can help now.

Are there any particular brands of bd-r/re discs the PS3 is most compatible with other than Sony? Any brands that cause problems? Which ones should I get?

I have the 80GB full size PS3 if it makes a difference.

I do not know the answer to your question.

My answer would be - WHY SPEND all that money?

Streaming is much easier.

rdclark

09-13-10, 04:52 PM

In my experience, no one who has access to HDMI connections has any interest in using component for video and HDMI for audio. Under what circumstances would such a combination make sense?

The poster who started this discussion about component is in exactly this situation, as is anyone with an older non-HDMI display who buys nearly any AVR of recent vintage. There are a lot of non-HDMI displays out there, and not everybody who has one feels compelled to replace it just because they have a newer AVR.

The point of my post about the limitations of component video and optical or digital audio was to expand on what drhanz had said. I understood that pglenn had no interest in the issue but I thought that others might be.

OK. But you were factually wrong when you said "an optical or digital audio connection, which must be used with component video."

xtc

09-13-10, 06:11 PM

I do not know the answer to your question.

My answer would be - WHY SPEND all that money?

Streaming is much easier.

What do you mean streaming? from your PC's hard drive to your PS3? Blu-ray quality files are enormous. If you want to keep these HD videos, you're gonna need to put them on BD-Rs, otherwise you have to buy new Hard Drives very often.

raylock

09-13-10, 06:43 PM

What do you mean streaming? from your PC's hard drive to your PS3? Blu-ray quality files are enormous. If you want to keep these HD videos, you're gonna need to put them on BD-Rs, otherwise you have to buy new Hard Drives very often.

Check out Vudu.com, amazon and similar streaming sites. You may never purchase another DVD (s)

xtc

09-13-10, 06:54 PM

Check out Vudu.com, amazon and similar streaming sites. You may never purchase another DVD (s)

those are good and i have netflix which streams to the ps3 too, but these are not what i'm talking about.

The whole point of getting a blu-ray writer is to KEEP videos, not just view it once. Which is why I wanted to see which brand of BD-Rs are most compatible with the PS3.I am guessing Sony, Panasonic and TDK are at the top of the list, but they are also the most expensive, so I wanted to see if there are any lower price BD-Rs that do the same job.

zapper

09-13-10, 06:56 PM

Verbatim is the most accurate blank dvd's.

pglenn

09-13-10, 07:06 PM

The poster who started this discussion about component is in exactly this situation, as is anyone with an older non-HDMI display who buys nearly any AVR of recent vintage. There are a lot of non-HDMI displays out there, and not everybody who has one feels compelled to replace it just because they have a newer AVR.

just to be accurate - my issue is the single HDMI input on my TV just stopped working, and I prefer to keep everything going to the RCVR via HDMI for less wires, and better audio. but lots of ppl surely have this need (or desire)

caper_1

09-13-10, 07:40 PM

I didn't get a reply the first time around, so hoping someone can help now.

Are there any particular brands of bd-r/re discs the PS3 is most compatible with other than Sony? Any brands that cause problems? Which ones should I get?

I have the 80GB full size PS3 if it makes a difference.

Compare buying a very large HDD (or a few) to buying BD-R. If you convert your movies to mkv, you may find the cost comparison worth it? I haven't done this, just a suggestion.

Doug Blackburn

09-14-10, 03:35 AM

Verbatim is the most accurate blank dvd's.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

Where the heck does such a notion come from? You write a DVD and the drive checks what is written on the fly and even after the fact you can check the entire disk if verify is turned on. If there's an error while writing, the block is marked (so it is never read again) and the block is re-written and re-checked. Every DVD that passes verification is 100% accurate bit-for-bit. I've written and verified 100s, perhaps 1000s of DVD of many brands and NEVER had any disc fail verification... meaning all the data on the disc was 100% perfect. Writable discs would be worthless if there were data errors on them.

Talon884

09-14-10, 06:15 AM

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

Where the heck does such a notion come from? You write a DVD and the drive checks what is written on the fly and even after the fact you can check the entire disk if verify is turned on. If there's an error while writing, the block is marked (so it is never read again) and the block is re-written and re-checked. Every DVD that passes verification is 100% accurate bit-for-bit. I've written and verified 100s, perhaps 1000s of DVD of many brands and NEVER had any disc fail verification... meaning all the data on the disc was 100% perfect. Writable discs would be worthless if there were data errors on them.

You have never had a bad burn??????????????????????????????????????????? (Rhetorical question - not meant to be a personal atttack)

Low quality disks = bad burns = coasters!

Hight quality disks = fewer bad burns = fewer coasters

http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm

the link above is for DVD's but the same would be true for Blu's ;)

Erock1

09-14-10, 03:26 PM

You have never had a bad burn??????????????????????????????????????????? (Rhetorical question - not meant to be a personal atttack)

Low quality disks = bad burns = coasters!

Hight quality disks = fewer bad burns = fewer coasters

the link above is for DVD's but the same would be true for Blu's ;)

The article is interesting but the most important aspect is where it discusses the "Media ID" to identify the manufacturer. This is key. As the article states most of the BIG, names all buy from the same few media manufacturers and just slap their name (branding) on the disc and jack up the price 100%+.

Now my 2 Cents: looking at the lists and catagories the article has assigned is for the most, total and a lot of BS. Again, this IMHO.
I have been using and burning DVD media purchased from Shop4Tech for about 12 years now have have ALWAYS purchased and used Princo Media in DVD-R format. Cost was always around .23 cents each! Out of the THOUSANDS ( this is literal, not exagerated) of DVDs I have made, perhaps 5 were bad due to actual disc problems and not my own fault. I have always used DVD-R media, not DVD+R as I have found the -R discs to be a lot more compatable with players themselves.
The article ranks Princo as "3rd Class, Cheap, Unreliable Junk". This is very, very far from the truth. Unfortunately, Shop4Tech recently has stopped selling Princo and I have switched to using Sonic, 16X, DVD-Rs with great results so far. BTW, Sonics are also priced at about ,26 cents each.

BioMatrix

09-15-10, 02:25 AM

The following posst seems like a good technical explanation for PS3's 3D capabilities in the upcoming update:

For a device to be rated as HDMI 1.4 requires a framepacked (two frames and meta data) 60Hz 1080P signal.* The TV takes the two frames and displays them at 120Hz*so you have two sequential frames at 60Hz each.* The framepacking method can vary.*A device can support some of the HDMI 1.4 required standards but can not call it'self compliant.***
*
The HDMI 1.4 device outputs a 60Hz or less video signal.* When 3-D is active the framebuffer in*the PS3 doubles in size and two frames are packed into, (timing) at double the transfer rate,*the timing window that represents the 60 Hz frame rate associated with TV.* *The HDMI 1.4 TV recognizes this and pulls the two frames out of this "window" and displays the two frames alternately at 120Hz resulting in two 60 HZ right and left images for 3-D.* The double 1080P resolution also supported by HDMI 1.4 is possible because the frame buffers in a HDMI 1.4 device have to be twice as large for 3-D so why not make these buffers available for double res if you are not doing 3-D.*
*
The Xbox has some limitation due to it's fixed 10Meg video buffer and can not display HD 3-D at 720P.* The data transfer rate is also limited by the HDMI 1.2 port.* The XBOX GPU can also not do 1080P-60Hz. What you see at the timings representing 1080P*is a lower res image filled in by AA dots due to the 10 meg buffer being too small (10meg) to display a 1920X1080 24 bit image.* Front and back buffer would be in this case 6meg + 6meg=12 which is larger than the available 10 meg.* You either have to reduce the color depth or in some*other way, reduce resolution.
*
How did the Xbox do the 3-D games Avatar and Gen Tao.* Those were done half resolution 720P.*Another interesting point is that the game Avatar rendered at 30Hz on both the Xbox and PS3 but packed (two frames at half resolution) into,*depending on display device, 60 Hz frames.* My DLP required 60HZ checkerboard* (slightly more than half resolution) double frame (packed) and the DLP pulled the two frames out and displayed at 120 Hz.*
*
With checkerboard DLP there is only one frame but it consists of alternating (checkerboard) video from the right and left images.* The DLP TV pulls the alternating video apart to produce the two frames for 3-D.* This results in slightly greater than 1/2 resolution due to processing (smooth motion) in the TV.****
*
MS has stated that the Xbox can do 3-D, the whole truth is that it can only do something like half 720P resolution.* This will be enough for the streaming 3-D being proposed for*current set top boxes.* Some of the proposed standards for HDMI 1.4 will probably be suported by the XBOX but only, for some reason <grin>, the PS3 can be called HDMI 1.4 compliant as it supports the requirement; double frame packed 1080P at 60Hz.
*
I find SONY employees stating they would support HDMI 1.4 displays and are HDMI 1.4 compilant as the party line.*Both Xbox and PS3 can technically do 3-D but only the PS3 can do full 1080P in 3-D for blu-ray and 720P in 3-D for games.*

Doug Blackburn

09-15-10, 02:38 AM

You have never had a bad burn??????????????????????????????????????????? (Rhetorical question - not meant to be a personal atttack)

Low quality disks = bad burns = coasters!

Hight quality disks = fewer bad burns = fewer coasters

http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm

the link above is for DVD's but the same would be true for Blu's ;)

No, actually, I've not had a bad-burn from any name-brand DVD... at least not while writing at a speed within the disc's capabilities. The words you used were "most accurate". A bad disc is a bad disc and has nothing to do with accuracy. Any DVD that's not defective is equally accurate with any other DVD.

Talon884

09-15-10, 07:44 AM

No, actually, I've not had a bad-burn from any name-brand DVD... at least not while writing at a speed within the disc's capabilities. The words you used were "most accurate". A bad disc is a bad disc and has nothing to do with accuracy. Any DVD that's not defective is equally accurate with any other DVD.

Never used the words "most accurate" .....

Different disk producers use different dyes in their products, hence different results when using different brands. Especially when an individual setup and source material being copied is thrown into the mix. Some brands work better for different people.;)

And as far as the PS3 goes - some brands of disks I burned years ago still work flawlessly, while other brands burned at approximately the same time are now useless, even in the equipment they burned with.

roger64

09-15-10, 09:06 PM

I have a PS3, Pioneer Elite 92, and an Aperion 12" sub. I was listening to loud music on Blu-ray and all of the sudden I heard a crackling and the sub stopped working. It works fine when sending test tones from the receiver, and when watching cable, but just the PS3 sub out seems to have stopped working. I tried different HDMI inputs on the receiver. I've had the PS3 since they came out, so everything was setup fine. Any ideas as to what could have happened? Help!!!

Doug Blackburn

09-16-10, 03:19 AM

Never used the words "most accurate" .....

Different disk producers use different dyes in their products, hence different results when using different brands. Especially when an individual setup and source material being copied is thrown into the mix. Some brands work better for different people.;)

And as far as the PS3 goes - some brands of disks I burned years ago still work flawlessly, while other brands burned at approximately the same time are now useless, even in the equipment they burned with.

The original poster :zapper: entire original post was "Verbatim is the most accurate blank dvd's." I was responding to the original post and didn't realize you weren't the original poster... but you should know better than to defend that position.

You do NOT get different "results" with different DVDs. They are ALL 100% accurate or they are completely defective or they are ruined by a cheap drive or a user who intentionally uses a write speed outside the specifications of a disc. If one brand "works better for different people" they either have a defective drive or are not using the disc within the original specifications. Or they have a pretty lame DVD writer.

Archival quality MAY vary somewhat among discs and some dye layers are susceptible to damage by exposure to sunlight. Discs that have poor "shelf lift" were almost always improperly written in the drive... often by using too much laser power or too-high a write speed (or both since laser power goes up with write speed). You can actually end up with explosions in the dye layer instead of a clean "melt" of the layer. That is NOT the disc's fault. It is the fault of the drive not sensing the write speed correctly or it's the fault of the user by over-riding a prudent write speed with a speed faster than the disc is capable of. Explosions in the dye layer typically render the disc unreadable, either immediately ("bad disc") or after some relatively short period of time... like 1 or 2 years. Properly written disc media has the dye layer melted nicely and those discs can last for decades, some think even 100 years is not out of the question. When you have a disc failure, there's a reason for it and it's not often the disc itself - as long as you are dealing with name-brand discs.

Talon884

09-16-10, 05:10 AM

The original poster :zapper: entire original post was "Verbatim is the most accurate blank dvd's." I was responding to the original post and didn't realize you weren't the original poster... but you should know better than to defend that position.

You do NOT get different "results" with different DVDs. They are ALL 100% accurate or they are completely defective or they are ruined by a cheap drive or a user who intentionally uses a write speed outside the specifications of a disc. If one brand "works better for different people" they either have a defective drive or are not using the disc within the original specifications. Or they have a pretty lame DVD writer.

Archival quality MAY vary somewhat among discs and some dye layers are susceptible to damage by exposure to sunlight. Discs that have poor "shelf lift" were almost always improperly written in the drive... often by using too much laser power or too-high a write speed (or both since laser power goes up with write speed). You can actually end up with explosions in the dye layer instead of a clean "melt" of the layer. That is NOT the disc's fault. It is the fault of the drive not sensing the write speed correctly or it's the fault of the user by over-riding a prudent write speed with a speed faster than the disc is capable of. Explosions in the dye layer typically render the disc unreadable, either immediately ("bad disc") or after some relatively short period of time... like 1 or 2 years. Properly written disc media has the dye layer melted nicely and those discs can last for decades, some think even 100 years is not out of the question. When you have a disc failure, there's a reason for it and it's not often the disc itself - as long as you are dealing with name-brand discs.

:rolleyes:

seanoff

09-16-10, 07:05 AM

09-16-10, 07:26 AM

No more disc for Netflix would be great! When I first heard we would need a disc, I thought it would be no big deal. I'm now on my second disc, and the kids never put it back.

TheRatPatrol

09-16-10, 08:15 AM

Firmware 3.50 out Sept 21

3D!!!

possibly Netflix in the XMB (no more disc) and rumoured upgrade to the browser.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/09/15/blu-ray-3d-disc-playback-support-coming-to-playstation-3-system-next-week/
Not trying to be rude, but I don't see anything in there where it says Netflix will be available without the disc? Or is that just a guess?

seanoff

09-16-10, 09:20 AM

Not trying to be rude, but I don't see anything in there where it says Netflix will be available without the disc? Or is that just a guess?

it's due before October supposedly

According to Hastings, Netflix will "be launching a major new version of our Sony PS3 user interface which doesn't require a disc, and is dynamically updated continuously with the latest Netflix UI improvements." Hastings didn't provide many details on the service, which will launch at some point before the company's next earnings call in October, but it sounds like it will work similarly to Netflix on the Xbox 360. Rather than insert a disc, users need only to go to the Netflix service, sift through content, and play a movie or television show.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20011335-17.html#ixzz0zhafBlE4

If it's not 3.50, it will be very soon after.

kenkraly2004

09-16-10, 10:36 AM

Great news it whould be even better if SCEA puts the Netflix on the XMB in the menu insted of putting in the disc. Also I hope the ps3 has full flash 10.1 support.

NicksHitachi

09-17-10, 09:23 PM

I updated to 3.42 last night with launch edition with memory card readers and it will not read or play BR discs now.

I know it worked before, because I was watching a BR, set it to update, watched some satellite, switched back and it froze. had to do a hard shutdown, and now no blue ray.

This sucks, I'm not the only one. Looks like many with single laser PS3s are having trouble with new firmware. I hope this doesnt take much time to fix.

This is my only blue ray player!!!!!

TheMoose

09-18-10, 07:13 AM

NicksHitachi

09-18-10, 09:46 AM

Just wondering if it'll read game discs since they are also Blu-ray?

Just checked and NO.

Found numerous people online with same problem and even a class action lawsuit reguarding sony "phasing out" fat systems.

Frank D

09-18-10, 10:04 AM

Anyone have any suggestions on how to quiet down the fans on the PS3 Slims?

waltzonice

09-18-10, 03:15 PM

DarthNoom

09-18-10, 04:09 PM

waltzonice

09-18-10, 04:28 PM

Anyone have any suggestions on how to quiet down the fans on the PS3 Slims?
And here I thought it was just the old PS3 FATs that had loud fans. I have mine in a cabinet and it gets really hot too. I wound up installing some thermal fans on the back of my cabinet to help with the situation.

zoro

09-18-10, 04:58 PM

I have the 80GB CECHExx that came with MGS4.
I am running 3.42 and I have no problems playing BR discs.
Are you saying you are having a problem with the original 60GB PS3 ?

Did any one check BD RE discs ?

PTAaron

09-18-10, 08:51 PM

I have the fat PS3 40gig - and I'm afraid to upgrade to 3.42 after reading about the problems. Anyone with an old 40gig do the upgrade and retain the ability to play blu-rays and games?

mujo

09-18-10, 09:41 PM

I have a newbie question. I've always been a PC guy, never into consoles. I am thinking of getting a PS3 for Blu-Ray and Media. One question though, and I can't seem to find the answer and the link to the FAQ is down.

Can you watch shows on ABC.com, NBC.com and Fox.com through the PS3's browser?

chasbox

09-19-10, 03:23 AM

Joel Graffman

09-19-10, 05:28 AM

I have the fat PS3 40gig - and I'm afraid to upgrade to 3.42 after reading about the problems. Anyone with an old 40gig do the upgrade and retain the ability to play blu-rays and games?
Yes. BRs fine, haven't tried games.

John Megadeth

09-19-10, 08:34 AM

Yes. BRs fine, haven't tried games.

Both are fine.

PTAaron

09-19-10, 09:25 AM

Yes. BRs fine, haven't tried games.

Both are fine.

Thank you guys!
I'm used to things related to gameplay being messed up by firmware updates, but losing blu-ray would be a much bigger problem!

NicksHitachi

09-19-10, 01:44 PM

OK, after more thought, I think I have corrupted firmware.

Here's what happened:

I watched a BR disc.
When switching discs I went to check for firmware and found 3.42.
I clicked update, and switched to Directv to watch while it updated.
The PS3 presumably finished firmware download and power cycled.
About 10 mins later I switched back to the PS3 to find it froze, would not respond to controllers or front switch.
I had to do a hard shutdown and restarted machine to find it in current state.
I thought I would share to hopefully help anyone else, but I don't think I could have avoided it.

Hopefully next firmware update will correct problem:(.

sibyrpunk

09-19-10, 03:17 PM

60 gig here with no probs since update.

zapper

09-19-10, 04:43 PM

Sorry to ask this question, but what is the last update number and what is it suppose to do??????????????

Thanks

NEVER MIND found it

Joel Graffman

09-20-10, 06:48 AM

rdclark

09-20-10, 11:57 AM

I am reluctant to switch off viewing PS3 updates because of potential HDMI handshake issues.

Ditto. One I start an update I never touch anything in my system until it's over. I find that laundry day is a good time to do updates. :)

PaulGo

09-20-10, 07:13 PM

It appear to be official - both lossless audio formats are NOT supported for 3D movies.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/100916d.html&ei=EOqXTNaoJsTflgeG_JGhBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/100916d.html%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DAZV%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Div

zapper

09-20-10, 10:23 PM

PaulGo, thanks for the heads up.

brinyhenry

09-20-10, 10:43 PM

Just updated my FAT 80GB PS3 to version 3.50! I don't have a 3D capable television but I was hoping for Netflix without the disc....no luck this time around. :(

Frank D

09-21-10, 12:21 AM

Just updated my FAT 80GB PS3 to version 3.50! I don't have a 3D capable television but I was hoping for Netflix without the disc....no luck this time around. :(

How long is the update taking to download (indicated if connection is high speed) and install?

akadennis

09-21-10, 05:17 AM

akadennis

09-21-10, 06:00 AM

if u switch to LPCM setting on the PS3 dont you get the lossless audio format? true it doesnt display it on the receiver but i think it gets output from the PS3 uncompressed?

Not true, I just confirmed it. You do not get lossless audio playing back 3D blu ray with bitstream or LPCM setting on the PS3. This kinda sucks, I get lossless when I play the 2D version.

bfocussvt

09-21-10, 08:04 AM

Not true, I just confirmed it. You do not get lossless audio playing back 3D blu ray with bitstream or LPCM setting on the PS3. This kinda sucks, I get lossless when I play the 2D version.

Isn't the bandwidth on HDMI 1.3 the same as 1.4?

What could be causing the limitation with high-res audio since any other 1.4 player (BD-C6900, BDP-S570, etc...) can play 3D AND HR audio simultaneously?

Tom Thomas

09-21-10, 08:45 AM

Not true, I just confirmed it. You do not get lossless audio playing back 3D blu ray with bitstream or LPCM setting on the PS3. This kinda sucks, I get lossless when I play the 2D version.

From the Sony PS3 Update page:

• When Dolby TrueHD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in Dolby Digital during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.
• When DTS-HD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in DTS during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

akadennis

09-21-10, 08:58 AM

From the Sony PS3 Update page:

• When Dolby TrueHD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in Dolby Digital during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.
• When DTS-HD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in DTS during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

Limitations, I wonder why this is? Do you think a firmware update would cure this?

Darin

09-21-10, 09:02 AM

Isn't the bandwidth on HDMI 1.3 the same as 1.4?

Except, if I'm not mistaken, at least on the older PS3s, they don't really have a 1.3 chipset. I thought it was something like 1.2, and they did some software tricks to get it to operate as 1.3. Perhaps they're reaching the limitations of what they can do with the hardware.

PaulGo

09-21-10, 09:04 AM

When the PS3 was designed 3D playback was not even a thought - they needed to use the cell processors for handling the additional 3D playback resources which did not leave enough cell processor resources to handle lossless audio decoding. It is alway possible tyat sony will figure out a way to better optimize the 3D decoding so they can implement lossless audio.

swarm87

09-21-10, 11:46 AM

the ir2bt thread seems dead so i'll also post the info here

with the 3.50 update the ir2bt unit works fine

NicksHitachi

09-21-10, 12:07 PM

Hopefully I'll get my PS3 back with this update.:mad:

TheGigaShadow

09-21-10, 12:33 PM

From the Sony PS3 Update page:

• When Dolby TrueHD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in Dolby Digital during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.
• When DTS-HD is selected as the audio format, audio will be output in DTS during playback of Blu-ray 3D™ content.

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

All the more reason to avoid 3D (which I was going to do anyway).

120inna55

09-21-10, 12:59 PM

the ir2bt thread seems dead so i'll also post the info here

with the 3.50 update the ir2bt unit works fine

Thank you.

kriktsemaj99

09-21-10, 02:00 PM

bfocussvt

09-21-10, 07:10 PM

Agreed about decoding lossless, but it shouldn't require much to output a lossless bitstream (on the newer models that support it).

I was just about to say that. It should still be compressed sufficiently to be passed as bitstream.

bfocussvt

09-21-10, 07:11 PM

Yoeddy1

09-21-10, 09:14 PM

rad

09-21-10, 09:20 PM

Hey, when I purchased my PS3's a couple years ago there was no mention or promise that they'd be able to play 3D Blu-Ray's and it wouldn't cost anything for an upgrade. So it doesn't play all audio formats or Java but I don't have to go out and spend a few hundred dollars to play a 3D Blu-Ray, I'm happy at the moment.

TheGigaShadow

09-21-10, 10:14 PM

PS3 owners...Pwned.

Hardly the case.

Superman2

09-21-10, 10:35 PM

09-22-10, 01:56 AM

Updated my launch 60GB PS3 with only one hiccup. It plays blu rays just fine, but when I try and access the playstation store. It tells me it's not available in my country or region.

Anyone having similar problems, or possibly a solution?

Thanks

PaulGo

09-22-10, 08:02 AM

Same problem I am just going to wait possibly the store is being updated.

Doug Blackburn

09-22-10, 10:04 AM

Except, if I'm not mistaken, at least on the older PS3s, they don't really have a 1.3 chipset. I thought it was something like 1.2, and they did some software tricks to get it to operate as 1.3. Perhaps they're reaching the limitations of what they can do with the hardware.

There is no audio bandwidth limitation... all versions of HDMI have the same audio bandwidth (uncompressed LPCM up to 7.1 channels) and it is a separate function from video bandwidth. Audio travels on dedicated wires in the HDMI cable itself. All versions of HDMI also support video up to 12-bits... only 1.3 and 1.4 support up to 16 bits. Since we are mostly transporting 8-bit video, there's PLENTY of video bandwidth even with the frame-packing strategy used for Blu-ray 3D. TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams have a LOWER bandwidth than 7.1 uncompressed LPCM... roughly HALF the bandwidth if the TrueHD or DTS-HD is 7.1 channels... less than half if the soundtrack is 5.1.

It's difficult to know whether Sony's DD from TrueHD and DTS from DTS-HD is something done for convenience so they could get the release out sooner rather than later, or whether there is some permanent hardware limitation that will never be worked-around with a future firmware update. Someone at Sony probably knows the answer.

NicksHitachi

09-22-10, 10:16 AM

Update did not fix mine.

Next, hidden system restore menu for: Restore File System(tonight).

After that, I'm going to crack it open and clean and inspect inside.

jimwhite

09-22-10, 12:12 PM

There is no audio bandwidth limitation... all versions of HDMI have the same audio bandwidth (uncompressed LPCM up to 7.1 channels) and it is a separate function from video bandwidth. Audio travels on dedicated wires in the HDMI cable itself. All versions of HDMI also support video up to 12-bits... only 1.3 and 1.4 support up to 16 bits. Since we are mostly transporting 8-bit video, there's PLENTY of video bandwidth even with the frame-packing strategy used for Blu-ray 3D. TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams have a LOWER bandwidth than 7.1 uncompressed LPCM... roughly HALF the bandwidth if the TrueHD or DTS-HD is 7.1 channels... less than half if the soundtrack is 5.1.

It's difficult to know whether Sony's DD from TrueHD and DTS from DTS-HD is something done for convenience so they could get the release out sooner rather than later, or whether there is some permanent hardware limitation that will never be worked-around with a future firmware update. Someone at Sony probably knows the answer.

Not true at all.... the audio packets are interleaved with the video and dependent on the video for master timing. To wit, the Asus Xonar's won't work with out video.

The fat PS3's ARE bandwidth limited which is why they cannot pass bitstreams. This is indeed the end of the road.

:cool:

WhatHappend

09-22-10, 12:45 PM

The fat PS3's ARE bandwidth limited which is why they cannot pass bitstreams. This is indeed the end of the road.

That is incorrect! The FAT PS3s are able to send 7.1 PCM audio which takes a lot more bandwidth than Bitstream TRUEHD or DTS MA.

The FAT PS3's HDMI chipset lacked the ability to make the appropriate HDMI packet headers to indicate the stream included the Bitstreamed Lossless audio.

nicholc2

09-22-10, 03:19 PM

Has anyone tested the PS3 with a DLP direct to see if the PS3 will output checkerboard to a DLP natively to only use DLP Link glasses?

PaulGo

09-22-10, 03:49 PM

Has anyone tested the PS3 with a DLP direct to see if the PS3 will output checkerboard to a DLP natively to only use DLP Link glasses?

Yes I have the PS3 does not output checkerboard for Blu-ray 3D movies with the new 3D 3.5 firmware.

GoodmanOX

09-22-10, 04:19 PM

Hey all, new to the forum. Before I get to the questions, here is my current set up:
TV: Samsung LN46A850
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V663
5.1 Speakers: Klipsch Synergy Quintet SL-III
Sub: Klipsch Synergy Sub-12
PS3 80gb
Xbox 360 Elite
All running through monster power center

I currently have the PS3 video out directly to TV w/HDMI and optical audio out to receiver under "DVD".
Xbox output is HDMI to receiver under "DTV/CABLE", and HDMI to TV.

Here are my questions, and please forgive me if the answers could be found on the forum; I did a cursory search.
1. Which audio setting on the receiver should I be using for the XBOX to play games and the PS3 for Blu-Ray (straight, straight enhancer, etc)? I have been using the straight enhancer setting but after some reading, have switched to just straight, or sur. decoder as it is my understanding that they are the same. Also, the PS3 audio settings are set to all of the options (linerar pcm, dolby, etc) at various hertz, what should I have these set to? I only have 5.1 speakers, but when I use the 7ch enhancer setting, it sounds the best, or loudest.

2. Could someone point me to some beginner information about the various codecs (DTS-HD, Dolby, etc) and to some information where I could learn more about the detailed audio settings (sur. decoder, etc.)?

Thank you very much.

chasbox

09-22-10, 04:49 PM

GoodmanOX

Have you seen this
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14491190#post14491190

TheGigaShadow

09-22-10, 04:54 PM

2. Could someone point me to some beginner information about the various codecs (DTS-HD, Dolby, etc) and to some information where I could learn more about the detailed audio settings (sur. decoder, etc.)?.

These should help:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1233

Dirac

09-22-10, 06:51 PM

PS3 owners...Pwned.

Do any other BD players released in 2006 even play 3D discs?

Doug Blackburn

09-23-10, 04:29 AM

Not true at all.... the audio packets are interleaved with the video and dependent on the video for master timing. To wit, the Asus Xonar's won't work with out video.

The fat PS3's ARE bandwidth limited which is why they cannot pass bitstreams. This is indeed the end of the road.

:cool:

2D video with 7.1 uncompressed LPCM audio would have a higher bandwidth than 3D video with a bitstreamed TrueHD or DTS-HD soundtrack. The 3D video bandwidth is only 10%-20% or so higher than the 2D video stream on average. Bitstream audio bandwidth is about 50% LESS than uncompressed LPCM. So Bitstream should be supportable unless there's some internal issue like running out of processor time.

The bandwidth of HDMI 1.0-1.2 is 4.9 Gbps. Up to 3.92 Gbps can be video with is PLENTY, more than plenty for 2D or 3D video. Yes, HDMI 1.3 upped the bandwidtth to 10.2 Gbps but this was required for support of 16 bit video at 1080p which doesn't exist in the consumer market. I don't believe there's a bandwidth limit for HDMI that's causing Sony to not (currently) support either uncompressed LPCM or lossless bitstreams with 3D video.

The Lumagen Radiance video processors expect to support 3D video and high-res audio (pass-through) with processors having HDMI 1.2.

s8n666

09-23-10, 06:56 AM

Just updated my PS3 to 3.50 without issue. Also found out that Netflix just became available in Canada as of yesterday (Sep 22), so I signed up for my free month and hit the PS3 to sign up for my Netflix disk. Well, low and behold, there is already a Netflix app, and after a quick download I was watching Netflix in all of it's streaming glory.

Was the netflix app part of the 3.50 update?

Charles R

09-23-10, 08:08 AM

Do any other BD players released in 2006 even play 3D discs?I don't think that is the point. Sony was bragging about supporting 3D on the PS3 for years. All of that time they never mentioned the fact that its support would be crippled.

TheRatPatrol

09-23-10, 08:27 AM

Was the netflix app part of the 3.50 update?
I haven't had a chance to update yet, but can anyone else confirm this?

Thanks

Tom Thomas

09-23-10, 08:39 AM

Was the netflix app part of the 3.50 update?

From IGN:

"Unlike our American friends who currently need to use the Netflix DVD to experience Netflix streaming on the PlayStation 3, the Netflix application is available for all Canadians to download under the "What's New" section of the XMB (coming to the U.S. sometime in October)."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1122781p1.html

Pugnax555

09-23-10, 09:05 AM

From IGN:

"Unlike our American friends who currently need to use the Netflix DVD to experience Netflix streaming on the PlayStation 3, the Netflix application is available for all Canadians to download under the "What's New" section of the XMB (coming to the U.S. sometime in October)."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1122781p1.html
Dammit. When's that Microsoft exclusivity agreement supposed to end???

PaulGo

09-23-10, 09:38 AM

I don't think that is the point. Sony was bragging about supporting 3D on the PS3 for years. All of that time they never mentioned the fact that its support would be crippled.

Please show me where Sony was bragging for years. I believe the first mention of 3D support for Blu-ray discs was in January, 2010.

Tyrod

09-23-10, 10:22 AM

9 months vs YEARS. 6 to one, half dozen to the other.:eek:

bviss

09-23-10, 10:57 AM

How's the quality of the netflix streaming without the disc?

09-23-10, 11:14 AM

Did I read that Canadian article right? That shows have 5.1 audio? Isn't this the big feature we've been waiting for?

Superman2

09-23-10, 11:35 AM

Just finished watching wall street... yes it's old , but the quality is about divx imo

tintin1001

09-23-10, 12:07 PM

I don't think that is the point. Sony was bragging about supporting 3D on the PS3 for years. All of that time they never mentioned the fact that its support would be crippled.

Hahaha, years? so when was the first real 3D film even released?

I own a Blu-Ray player that started out as a Profile 1 player, and today it´s a Blu-Ray player that even supports 3D releases. On the way all the HiDef Audio formats was added, extremely high quality DVD playback. Value for money pr excellence. Did i mention it also does alot of other cool stuff :)

There is a fair chance that Audio Codecs will be added as well as true 3D menus.
Maybe Sony just wasn´t able to get everything working, we just have to look at the development of the Blu-Ray player, everything wasn´t ready from the get go.

rst08tierney

09-23-10, 12:18 PM

Can some one tell me if the first generation PS3 is capable of the following like a sharp blue ray im looking at?

1.)Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

2.) it offers both onboard decoding and bitstream output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

3.)The BD-HP24U has onboard Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, and it also passes these high-resolution audio formats in their native bitstream form over HDMI, for your A/V receiver to decode

Reason I ask, im looking to dump my first gen ps3 and just use the Sharp blue ray that came with my TV for free since 3d is not a big deal. My AVR is a Pioneer vsx-30. Im im correct, first gen ps3 only supports HDMI 1.2 right?

I want the best sound quality and picture. The plus about dumping the ps3 is I can get some $$$ for it!

Thanks guys for your help

PaulGo

09-23-10, 12:27 PM

1 - yes
2 - no - no bitstream (slim PS3 - yes)

phdeane

09-23-10, 12:30 PM

From IGN:

"Unlike our American friends who currently need to use the Netflix DVD to experience Netflix streaming on the PlayStation 3, the Netflix application is available for all Canadians to download under the "What's New" section of the XMB (coming to the U.S. sometime in October)."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1122781p1.html

Dammit. When's that Microsoft exclusivity agreement supposed to end???

Apparently "sometime in October." :)

Pugnax555

09-23-10, 12:38 PM

Apparently "sometime in October." :)

Derrrr. It sure does help to read to the end of the bit I'm quoting... :D

keenan

09-23-10, 02:06 PM

Did I read that Canadian article right? That shows have 5.1 audio? Isn't this the big feature we've been waiting for?

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that, the reviewer was probably seeing the 2 channel audio signal processed by his AVR to 5.1.

rst08tierney

09-23-10, 03:08 PM

1 - yes
2 - no - no bitstream (slim PS3 - yes)

Well that makes it easy with a NO on number 2. I want the best sound PERIOD. I may look to upgrade to a slim in the future, but im sure I can get close to $170 for the fat boy ps3 with a dvd remote

Darin

09-23-10, 03:19 PM

Well that makes it easy with a NO on number 2. I want the best sound PERIOD.

At the risk of repeating what has probably already been conveyed at least 500 times in this nearly 30000 post thread... you do know that a NO on number 2 does not reduce sound quality, since it is still a YES on number 1, via LPCM, right?

Charles R

09-23-10, 03:23 PM

I own a Blu-Ray player that started out as a Profile 1 player, and today it´s a Blu-Ray player that even supports 3D releases.Actually you own a PS3 that supports crippled 3D playback. Time line the announcement goes back to 2009… that's 2009, 2010… multiple years. :)

PaulGo

09-23-10, 03:39 PM

Actually you own a PS3 that supports crippled 3D playback. Time line the announcement goes back to 2009… that's 2009, 2010… multiple years. :)

Please show me a 2009 announcement for 3D for Blu-ray movies that is less than a year old. I guess you just have an axe to grind on the PS3. When I bought the PS3 when it just came out it was for Blu-ray playback and games. Any enhancement since then was an unexpected bonus. Their have been many enhancements and I feel I have gotten more than my monies worth.

Do you have a PS3? If you do did you buy it after they announced 3D? If not you really should not be complaining.

Charles R

09-23-10, 04:00 PM

Please show me a 2009 announcement for 3D for Blu-ray movies that is less than a year old. I guess you just have an axe to grind on the PS3.Since when is stating facts having an axe to grind? Regardless of what you feel about the PS3 doesn't alter the fact...

The PS3 offers crippled 3D playback.

Even what I think about the PS3 doesn't alter the facts and just where did I complain about it? I simply stated they said it would support 3D playback but never mentioned at any time it would be crippled (until they released the crippled support).

rad

09-23-10, 04:08 PM

Guess if you're not happy with the 3D Blu-Ray playback that came for FREE then go spend a couple hundred dollars and go out and buy a 3D player that has all the functionality you want.

Frankly for me what I have now on the PS3 is just fine, especially since I have more fingers on one hand then 3D Blu-Ray discs that I can go out any buy, without getting a new TV and 3D Blu-Ray player that comes with them. When more 3D content becomes available MAYBE I'll get a dedicated player but rignt now I put a 3D disc in it, put on the glasses and watch a 3D program just fine.

rst08tierney

09-23-10, 04:11 PM

At the risk of repeating what has probably already been conveyed at least 500 times in this nearly 30000 post thread... you do know that a NO on number 2 does not reduce sound quality, since it is still a YES on number 1, via LPCM, right?

Thats right, that is posted in almost every thread. Do you think the PS3 has better picture quality then the alleged Sharp "Aquos Pure Mode"

Just convince me not to sell my ps3 just to use a cheap blue ray player that came for free with my TV because of a gimmick like pure mode

The only thing that has me caught up is this Aquos Pure Mode, is it really that much better? I heard that video via HDMI is all the same quality when playing blue ray

PaulGo

09-23-10, 04:20 PM

Since when is stating facts having an axe to grind? Regardless of what you feel about the PS3 doesn't alter the fact...

The PS3 offers crippled 3D playback.

Even what I think about the PS3 doesn't alter the facts and just where did I complain about it? I simply stated they said it would support 3D playback but never mentioned at any time it would be crippled (until they released the crippled support).

You were also stating that Sony advertised 3D Blu-ray movie playback for several years. I just did research and I found the first mention at CES in January. Sony mentioned in November 2009 at a financial conference about putting 3D games on the PS3, but it did not have any mention of Blu-ray movies. Whether you consider it crippled is your personal opinion, but I do not believe it is the opinion of most PS3 owners.

You still did not give any references for your several years statement or answer my questions.

PioNewbie

09-23-10, 05:03 PM

Regarding 3D

bought a Kia and through upgrades now own a Cadillac.

I didn't see a 3d sticker on mine when purchased in 07, or this year for my second unit, but what is it with the expected entitlements?

gluvhand

09-23-10, 05:06 PM

I don't know about "entitilements" but I don't feel an added bonus feature should cripple a standard feature.

PioNewbie

09-23-10, 05:13 PM

I hear ya, and I'm not looking for an argument, however, I look at it as Sony throwing us a bone.

Its time to sit back, relax and wait for the goods because they typically deliver. Just looking around at what else I have purchased in my life and it still looks the same unless I have added options by paying cash. Sony hasn't charged for firmware upgrades and by them crippling 3D or not, its considered a preview of what's to come.

Just curious of how some people expect more from what they get and I'm sure elsewhere owners of whatever product would have to pay. I hope they charge us money for the final firmware fix, so this way I wont feel like I ripped them off.

gluvhand

09-23-10, 05:22 PM

PioNewbie

09-23-10, 05:51 PM

I don't have a pony in this race. No 3D display yet. But I get your point...up to a point. If they want to stay competetive and keep PS3s in people's homes as a blu-ray player they need to keep up. And the F/W is just as much about keeping the PS3 operable as it is current. I know the average guy/gal/family using the PS3 probably wouldn't even noticed the downgrade in audio but most here would, or insist they do. I have confidence Sony will work out a solution too. Just something "wrong" to me about it now though.

We agree about 99%. Thank you for having a decent conversation. I am always worried about offending someone because they felt the other person didn't listen. Glad we could get so close to agreeing and both knowing Sony will find a solution. :)

gluvhand

09-23-10, 07:11 PM

We agree about 99%. Thank you for having a decent conversation. I am always worried about offending someone because they felt the other person didn't listen. Glad we could get so close to agreeing and both knowing Sony will find a solution. :)

Not a problem. Thanks to you as well.

uni_panther

09-23-10, 07:40 PM

I had this in a different thread but decided to throw it up here as well to see if I get any bites.

I am wondering if someone can clear something up for me who understands this better than I do. This is a question pertaining to deep color with the new update. Now as I understand it the PS3 has always supported deep color. It was essentially just locked into an auto mode and the new update allows for auto and off

My confusion stems from the fact that I was under the impression that blu-ray did not support deep color. I thought blu-ray maxed out at 8 bit (24bit). This new update got me to thinking though because my tv display has always told me it was receiving 36bit (12 bit) on both movies and games.

What I am wondering is if there is some type of conversion going on and if someone could explain what is going on. I'm not interested in actually having deep color. What I am concerned about is that all this time I have been altering the colors without even really realizing it. Outside of camcorders I don't know of anything that actually utilizes deep color in the source.

Should I bet setting this option to off now that it is available? I'm just trying to learn and understand more so I know exactly what is going on. If I set the option to off then my tv doesn't display any information in the corner but when it is on auto it displays 36 bit so something is going on.

Is it possible that it is just sending "blank" data in those other 4 bits even when getting 8 bit data from blu-ray similar to how when sending out LPCM over HDMI it sends it out as 7.1 PCM with empty data even on 2 channel audio? Trying to educate myself on what is going on and appreciate any help.

seanoff

09-24-10, 12:17 AM

see title

pics in this thread http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408123&page=2 post 60

it's an app downloaded from PSN, and goes under the video XMB icon

will hit the US in october as stated

TheRatPatrol

09-24-10, 12:26 AM

jimwhite

09-24-10, 01:54 PM

2D video with 7.1 uncompressed LPCM audio would have a higher bandwidth than 3D video with a bitstreamed TrueHD or DTS-HD soundtrack. The 3D video bandwidth is only 10%-20% or so higher than the 2D video stream on average. Bitstream audio bandwidth is about 50% LESS than uncompressed LPCM. So Bitstream should be supportable unless there's some internal issue like running out of processor time.

The bandwidth of HDMI 1.0-1.2 is 4.9 Gbps. Up to 3.92 Gbps can be video with is PLENTY, more than plenty for 2D or 3D video. Yes, HDMI 1.3 upped the bandwidtth to 10.2 Gbps but this was required for support of 16 bit video at 1080p which doesn't exist in the consumer market. I don't believe there's a bandwidth limit for HDMI that's causing Sony to not (currently) support either uncompressed LPCM or lossless bitstreams with 3D video.

The Lumagen Radiance video processors expect to support 3D video and high-res audio (pass-through) with processors having HDMI 1.2.

okay, I screwed the bandwidth thing, but my main impulse to post was the audio on separate wires thing... :eek:

DrDon

09-24-10, 01:57 PM

bickering posts removed. Further fighting will result in lost of posting privs in this thread.

Tyrod

09-24-10, 03:15 PM

bickering posts removed. Further fighting will result in lost of posting privs in this thread.

Dam, that was the funnest part.:eek:

stieger

09-24-10, 08:54 PM

uni_panther

09-24-10, 10:32 PM

Hi folks,

Quick question for you experts on the PS3. I have a roughly 2-year old 40gig PS3, which I have connected via HDMI to an Integra 9.9, which can decode the hd-audio codecs.

Someone suggested my old PS3 cannot send unaltered bitstream audio to the Integra 9.9, in order for the Integra to do the decoding of TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. Is that true? Does my PS3 "do something" even to bitstream?

I ask because the 9.9 display screen "should" indicate TrueHD when that audio option is selected on a BR disc (newest Star Trek movie). However, even after selected TrueHD, and ensuring my PS3 is sending bitstream as opposed to lpcm, my processor is not indicating the hd-codec being processed.

Somebody help me out!

Stieger

You can't bitstream HD audio on the "fat" models. Only the slim models can bitstream HD audio. If you attempt to bitstream you will get Dolby Digital or the lossy core of a DTS track. You should be able to verify this by pushing the select button on your controller and getting the info in the top right hand corner of your tv.

You can get HD audio but you will have to set it to LPCM and your AVR will read it as just that and not give you the lights for Dolby True HD or DTS:MA

stieger

09-24-10, 10:36 PM

gluvhand

09-24-10, 10:37 PM

Hi folks,

Quick question for you experts on the PS3. I have a roughly 2-year old 40gig PS3, which I have connected via HDMI to an Integra 9.9, which can decode the hd-audio codecs.

Someone suggested my old PS3 cannot send unaltered bitstream audio to the Integra 9.9, in order for the Integra to do the decoding of TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. Is that true? Does my PS3 "do something" even to bitstream?

I ask because the 9.9 display screen "should" indicate TrueHD when that audio option is selected on a BR disc (newest Star Trek movie). However, even after selected TrueHD, and ensuring my PS3 is sending bitstream as opposed to lpcm, my processor is not indicating the hd-codec being processed.

Somebody help me out!

Stieger

Pre-slim PS3s only decode internally and send TrueHD and DTS MA as LPCM. Slims can send these as bitstream. Set your PS3 to output LPCM and you'll get TrueHD and DTS MA. Just won't see it on your receivers display. Read the FAQ for in-depth info.

Doug Blackburn

09-25-10, 03:34 AM

Ok, cool. So no reason to trade in my old PS3 for the slim version, UNLESS I want my Integra to decode the HD-audio. Not sure it should/would matter much, so I'm probably just going to stick with the "fat" model and let it decode the HD audio and send over via LPCM to my integra, which just reads "multichannel" vs. having the TrueHD light come on - big deal...

stieger

Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME... I've posted this before, but it's almost impossible to search this huge thread...

TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are LOSSLESS formats.

Let's think about what that means... LOSSLESS. That means you start out with some soundtrack in at least 16bits and 48 kHz sample rate (sometimes it might be higher bits or rate but only on specialty BDs). You then turn it into TrueHD or DTS-HD MA and the data is about half as big as it was before it was compressed.

You play back this data... and remember, these are LOSSLESS formats. That means when you play the data back and it is converted to PCM (and it MUST be converted to PCM somewhere, in the player or AVR/processor), you get the same stream of 1s and 0s that existed before the sound was compressed. If you don't get the same stream of 1s and 0s, the formats could not be called LOSSLESS. In fact, Dolby and DTS provide the code, if not the chips themselves that do the decoding. If the code or chip(s) did not perfectly reconstruct the original uncompressed data, these formats could not be called LOSSLESS formats. The decoding includes error detection AND correction so you always get the original bitstream after decoding and it doesn't matter AT ALL whether the decoding is done in a player or in an AVR/Processor. It is simply not possible to decode either format other than "perfectly" - they are LOSSLESS... by their very nature, they ALWAYS produce the same uncompressed sequence of 1s and 0s. Disc player produce the same stream of 1s and 0s that an AVR/processor will produce - if the decoded streams were not identical, TrueHD and DTS-HD MA could not be called LOSSLESS. Because they were designed from the outset to be LOSSLESS formats, the decoding is fool-proof. You either get the original uncompressed 1s and 0s or you get an error that prevents decoding. There is nothing in between.

Bottom line, you get the same PCM data regardless of whether the player does the decoding or the AVR/processor does the decoding. It has to be that way... the formats are LOSSLESS.

09-25-10, 04:26 AM

Steiger seemed to have a good handle on the concept. Doug, your lecture was unnecessary.

Pugnax555

09-25-10, 06:10 AM

Steiger seemed to have a good handle on the concept. Doug, your lecture was unnecessary.

Couldn't agree more.

petetherock

09-25-10, 08:04 AM

Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME...

Bottom line, you get the same PCM data regardless of whether the player does the decoding or the AVR/processor does the decoding. It has to be that way... the formats are LOSSLESS.

You state this categorically and it has also been debated many times, there is a difference, and it does mean that even though they are all bits and bytes, will they sound the same? No! There are many processes in between, and for all those who propose the sound the same, I seldom see proof, yet those who say so, demand that those who hear a difference produce proof.

So I don't think it is fair to make this a rule.

You have your observations, and I have done my own observations, which I have posted, and I am happy to accept differences, but it is NOT a hard and fast fact. Happy to see your results on this.

Cheers.

Dirac

09-25-10, 11:02 AM

Is half this thread just the lossless audio "debate"? I'm out.

John Megadeth

09-25-10, 01:02 PM

Agreed. It's annoying.

TheGigaShadow

09-25-10, 06:16 PM

Agreed. It's annoying.

Well, no one is forcing either of you to stop by and read.

TheGigaShadow

09-25-10, 06:17 PM

Is half this thread just the lossless audio "debate"? I'm out.

Have fun elsewhere.

Av8tr

09-25-10, 09:50 PM

Is there a noticeable difference in sound between losseless and lossy audio? Is it about the same difference as between MP3 and WAV?

petetherock

09-25-10, 11:29 PM

Is there a noticeable difference in sound between losseless and lossy audio? Is it about the same difference as between MP3 and WAV?

There is a noticeable difference but it's less than when you compare SD vs HD resolution.

Av8tr

09-26-10, 01:34 AM

Well to me there's a huge difference between SD and HD. I was hoping it wasn't nearly that much.

petetherock

09-26-10, 01:46 AM

I would say that if the movie is engrossing you will be noticing the lossy vs lossless issue.

Av8tr

09-26-10, 02:06 AM

Did you mean to say that if the movie is engrossing I wouldn't notice the lossy vs losseless?

09-26-10, 02:28 AM

My opinion is that lossless audio would be readily apparent to you, especially if you could do an on-the-spot A-B comparison.

I have , what I consider to be, a very good audio system. An example I can give would be...Msny BD's will default to a lossy track. Most of the time I can tell the track doesn't sound as "open" as it should.

Also, a 640kb DD track can sound great.

The question can open a fierce debate, but one "snob" theory that really irritates me is the next poster will come along and say..." I have a trained ear"...I know what to listen for etc...

Good luck!

blacklion

09-26-10, 02:51 AM

09-26-10, 03:32 AM

I'm sure I'll catch heat for this, but you probably will not notice a difference. I have a fully lossless 6.1 system in my ht.

In my living room, I just have a stereo setup, and for simplicity for the family I run all inputs straight to my Sony LCD rear projection tv. All audio is output through the sony's toslink output (dolby digital 2.0) to my 12 year old Onkyo receiver with a burnt out video side.

Simple for the family because the receiver never switches inputs. All switching is clearly labeled on screen. (blu ray, satellite, EVEN VHS!) it just means lots of wires running to the tv!

Av8tr

09-26-10, 03:47 AM

and I gather running a toslink cable from the PS3 to my AVR won't help any?

I'm not much of an audiophile, but I have a Denon 3311 with average Energy Encore speakers. A 6.1 speaker setup. I've enjoyed the speakers a lot over the last few years with my old Yamaha receiver with no HDMI and no Blue Ray. That would have been lossy correct? I was very happy with that sound.

Superman2

09-26-10, 04:14 AM

If you could tell the difference on regular DVDs between DD and DTS... and got pissed when only a DD track was included... then you will see a difference. :)

For me, lossless is like having your ears unplugged :)

Tyrod

09-26-10, 07:08 AM

And speaking of gross movies. Anybody seen the Human Centipede? I wonder if it's lossy?

PaulGo

09-26-10, 08:40 AM

Is there a noticeable difference in sound between losseless and lossy audio? Is it about the same difference as between MP3 and WAV?

I find the difference small but noticeable. Slightly clearer sound and better channels separation. Of course their are many variables - the quality of your speakers, amplifier and your age. As you get older unfortunately you loose the ability to hear the very high frequencies.

Doug Blackburn

09-26-10, 11:51 AM

Steiger seemed to have a good handle on the concept. Doug, your lecture was unnecessary.

Your comment is inappropriate. It wasn't a lecture - I said at the beginning of the post that this thread was so huge it was impossible to search for information like this... no reflection whatsoever on the OP. The search function often doesn't find the information you are looking for. So I posted it again... period. You are looking for trouble where it doesn't exist.

Doug Blackburn

09-26-10, 11:54 AM

Couldn't agree more.

<repost>
Your comment is inappropriate. It wasn't a lecture - I said at the beginning of the post that this thread was so huge it was impossible to search for information like this... no reflection whatsoever on the OP. The search function often doesn't find the information you are looking for. So I posted it again... period. You are looking for trouble where it doesn't exist.

Doug Blackburn

09-26-10, 12:12 PM

Is there a noticeable difference in sound between losseless and lossy audio? Is it about the same difference as between MP3 and WAV?

It all depends on what you are comparing. There are lots of variables in the audio. Lossless formats are roughly 2:1 compression and sound the same as the original 1:1 uncompressed audio. A lossy 3:1 compressed file isn't going to sound much different than lossless, but Dolby Digital on DVD is more like 10:1 or 12:1 compression. That is very obviously worse-sounding than lossless. DTS on DVD was often more like 6:1 compression and that sounded noticeably better than Dolby Digital if the system was capable of revealing the difference. That would be possible on a system with good speakers (which could be as reasonably priced as $200/pr Paradigm or Athena speakers and a good $800+ AVR, the TV speakers wouldn't be revealing enough to hear a difference). The lossy core of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are a little less compressed than 6:1 so the differences are getting smaller, but the better the system and setup, the easier it is to hear the differences, especially if you use music as a comparison rather than a movie soundtrack. The lossy core of TrueHD is much less compressed than Dolby Digital is on DVD. The lossy core of DTS-HD MA is compressed about half as much as DTS on DVD, though there were a few DVD titles with DTS compression that was about the same as the DTS-HD MA core - that less-compressed DTS was typically on a few specialty DVDs and the lower compression took up so much disc space on those DVDs that no space was left for fancy menus or special features.

Another factor regarding audibility of compression is how complex the sound is at any given moment. A very simple sound like a door bell with nothing else happening at the same time can be compressed a lot without substantially changing the sound. But if you have a stretch of sound with music, ambient sounds like a waterfall or loud car motor sounds, dialog, gunshots... anything complex with lots of "layers" of sound, compression there becomes considerably more obvious than it is when there is something very simple in the soundtrack.

Doug Blackburn

09-26-10, 12:46 PM

You state this categorically and it has also been debated many times, there is a difference,

No... there isn't. Decoding of lossy DD and DTS did leave room for differences in the output PCM bitstream. Decoding of LOSSLESS formats (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, FLAC, & ALAC most commonly) produces the same original 1s and 0s. In fact, you can encode the same original audio in all 4 of those formats, then decode all 4 of them back to PCM and you'll have the same 1s and 0s from all 4 of them.

What happens to the 1s and 0s AFTER they become PCM is a completely different thing and was never part of my original or follow-up posts.

And I also implied but did specifically say you'd get the same sound all the time... you have to be using the same SYSTEM and not changing ANYTHING except where the audio is decoded.

AND also not stated in the post... MUSIC is a very different source than a movie sound track. Movie soundtrack audio is buffered and re-clocked to match the video. Music playback adds an analog component... time. Because music is not buffered and re-clocked like movie sound and different components handle music playback better or worse than others (larger or smaller time-based errors -- the spacing between bits). Movie sound essentially elminates the time-based errors.

and it does mean that even though they are all bits and bytes, will they sound the same? No!

It does mean they will sound the same if they are treated the same way after being converted to PCM format... if you are talking about movie sound. Again, music playback is affected by the quality of the HDMI cable (presuming you are using HDMI since that's the only transmission means we have for lossless multi-channel).

There are many processes in between,

No there are NO additional processes in between. We are talking about the difference between TrueHD or DTS-HA MA travelling on an HDMI cable versus uncompressed LPCM traveling on the same cable. Everything else is identical... there are NO other processes at all. You are using the same disc player, the same cable, the same input the same audio processor, the same speaker, same speaker cables, same power cord(s). All you are changing is turning decoding on or off in the disc player. NOTHING ELSE.

The "MANY PROCESSES" don't happen until the audio is inside the audio processing component and in PCM format. Before the audio is converted to PCM nothing happens to it AT ALL, except it moves through an HDMI cable.

And as stated above... the cable is a non-issue for movie sound because of the buffering and reclocking. For music... yes, I hear a difference between HDMI cables as improbable as it seems... THAT is true.

and for all those who propose the sound the same, I seldom see proof, yet those who say so, demand that those who hear a difference produce proof.

For there to be a difference, the 1s and 0s have to be changed to some different pattern that is still recognizeable as the original music. That is impossible. If the 1s and 0s are arbitrarily altered without "intelligence" the sound would become noise... completely unrecognizeable as the original.

I guarantee you that if you were to take each 16-bit word and change the 7th bit from a 1 to a 0 or from a 0 to a 1, the sound would become absolutely horrid. But there is error correction and detection to prevent things like that from happening.

The decoding process from digital to analog is a whole different deal - I never said that didn't make any difference... it DOES make a difference, but not much, or even any, difference for movie sound, because, again, movie sound is loaded into a buffer before it is needed and it is clocked out of that buffer in sync with the video - that's not the same process used for music.

So I don't think it is fair to make this a rule.

Life isn't fair.

You have your observations, and I have done my own observations, which I have posted, and I am happy to accept differences, but it is NOT a hard and fast fact. Happy to see your results on this.

It is a fact. Lossless compression is WIDELY proven to produce the same stream of 1s and 0s regardless of where it is decoded. It's like sending a ZIP file of a volume of an encyclopedia with text and images, maybe even some video for topics. You pack all that data into a single ZIP file, send it to 1000 people on 1000 different computers in 100 different countries and they all see exactly the same thing... every 1 and 0 is exactly the same for each person opening the ZIP file. Same thing with LOSSLESS audio. You ALWAYS get the same 1s and 0s. What you do with those 1s and 0s after the decoding step... well, that's not the same issue I addressed. The audio processor alters the 1s and 0s in very specific ways... channel level matching, bass management, speaker distance/time delays, room EQ adjustments, PL IIx or Neo:6 processing... there are tons of things that could be done to the decoded audio... but all those things begin with the same 1s and 0s when you are dealing with LOSSLESS audio formats.

rst08tierney

09-26-10, 01:05 PM

Av8tr

09-26-10, 02:12 PM

It all depends on what you are comparing. There are lots of variables in the audio. Lossless formats are roughly 2:1 compression and sound the same as the original 1:1 uncompressed audio. A lossy 3:1 compressed file isn't going to sound much different than lossless, but Dolby Digital on DVD is more like 10:1 or 12:1 compression. That is very obviously worse-sounding than lossless. DTS on DVD was often more like 6:1 compression and that sounded noticeably better than Dolby Digital if the system was capable of revealing the difference. That would be possible on a system with good speakers (which could be as reasonably priced as $200/pr Paradigm or Athena speakers and a good $800+ AVR, the TV speakers wouldn't be revealing enough to hear a difference). The lossy core of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are a little less compressed than 6:1 so the differences are getting smaller, but the better the system and setup, the easier it is to hear the differences, especially if you use music as a comparison rather than a movie soundtrack. The lossy core of TrueHD is much less compressed than Dolby Digital is on DVD. The lossy core of DTS-HD MA is compressed about half as much as DTS on DVD, though there were a few DVD titles with DTS compression that was about the same as the DTS-HD MA core - that less-compressed DTS was typically on a few specialty DVDs and the lower compression took up so much disc space on those DVDs that no space was left for fancy menus or special features.

Another factor regarding audibility of compression is how complex the sound is at any given moment. A very simple sound like a door bell with nothing else happening at the same time can be compressed a lot without substantially changing the sound. But if you have a stretch of sound with music, ambient sounds like a waterfall or loud car motor sounds, dialog, gunshots... anything complex with lots of "layers" of sound, compression there becomes considerably more obvious than it is when there is something very simple in the soundtrack.

Well thanks; that explanation makes me feel a lot better. For one thing, I won't be listening to music in 3D. Most of the 3D movies that I want to watch have the DTS HD format so I gather they should still sound pretty good since they're not that compressed.

I had Monsters vs Aliens, but it doesn't state the audio format. Before I bought the PS3, I had the Panny 350 3D BD player, and the sound was really amazing on Monsters vs Aliens. Unfortunately, I left it in the disc tray when I returned it to the store. I called but they weren't able to find it.

What would be the best way to configure my PS3 and AVR for watching a 3D movie? Should I bother with an optical cable? Any special settings on the PS3 and my Denon AVR?

TheGigaShadow

09-26-10, 07:12 PM

Is there a noticeable difference in sound between losseless and lossy audio? Is it about the same difference as between MP3 and WAV?

You may find this article of interest:
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM?page=0%2C0

merv43

09-26-10, 08:54 PM

Hi, I have an older ps3 the 80g unit model #CECHE01. And it has stopped playing blu ray discs. I have tried a master reset by turning the power off on the back and then turning it back on while holding he front power button down. This worked the first time and it played a bd disc, but it has since stopped and a reset does not have any effect. Any Ideas?

Tyrod

09-26-10, 09:52 PM

merv43

09-26-10, 10:17 PM

Will it play a DVD?

Yes, it will play everything except blu rays.

Tyrod

09-26-10, 11:08 PM

Yes, it will play everything except blu rays.

Seems like the blu laser bit the big one.

merv43

09-26-10, 11:21 PM

Seems like the blu laser bit the big one.

Thanks Tyrod, I will contact sony and see where to take it or send it. Thanks

Doug Blackburn

09-27-10, 03:14 AM

What would be the best way to configure my PS3 and AVR for watching a 3D movie? Should I bother with an optical cable? Any special settings on the PS3 and my Denon AVR?

As things exist today, you'll get the same sound using either HDMI or optical... so no sense adding the optical connection. Unless your AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4... in that case you might have to use the optical connection.

If the Denon AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4, it's not very likely that it will pass 3D video from a Blu-ray so you'd have to connect the PS3 to the TV. Your audio would then have to go from the TV to the AVR or from the PS3 to the AVR so you might have to use the optical cable in that case... sound via optical to AVR, video to TV via HDMI. This might lead to lipsync issues your AVR could fix if it has a lipsync delay feature.

If the AVR has HDMI 1.4 all you need is an HDMI connection to the AVR and another HDMI from the AVR to the TV.

caper_1

09-27-10, 09:11 AM

So for dummy's like me, lets see if I understand.

there is no reason to trade in the fat PS3 for a Slim one since the only difference in audio is the new slim will decode bitstream and turn on a fancy light instead of just displaying PCM on my AVR. The sound will be the same when all is said and done.

Save my money unless I like pretty lights on my receiver

Correct. When you press "Select" to display audio and video info, it will say DTS-MA or TrueHD, but your AVR will receive LPCM and display such "lights". Sound will be the same.

caper_1

09-27-10, 09:23 AM

Darin

09-27-10, 10:02 AM

So for dummy's like me, lets see if I understand.

there is no reason to trade in the fat PS3 for a Slim one since the only difference in audio is the new slim will decode bitstream and turn on a fancy light instead of just displaying PCM on my AVR. The sound will be the same when all is said and done.

Save my money unless I like pretty lights on my receiver
To me, the biggest advantage of the slims is that they use less power, and therefore, will produce less heat and may produce less fan noise. But one advantage the older models have that the newer ones don't have is is SACD playback, and possibly some better compatibility of older games. But for sound, LPCM works just fine.

uni_panther

09-27-10, 05:25 PM

As things exist today, you'll get the same sound using either HDMI or optical... so no sense adding the optical connection. Unless your AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4... in that case you might have to use the optical connection.

If the Denon AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4, it's not very likely that it will pass 3D video from a Blu-ray so you'd have to connect the PS3 to the TV. Your audio would then have to go from the TV to the AVR or from the PS3 to the AVR so you might have to use the optical cable in that case... sound via optical to AVR, video to TV via HDMI. This might lead to lipsync issues your AVR could fix if it has a lipsync delay feature.

If the AVR has HDMI 1.4 all you need is an HDMI connection to the AVR and another HDMI from the AVR to the TV.

In 99% of most cases so far outside of one Vizio tv I read about this year I know of no tvs that will pass a 5.1 signal when not using the internal tuner. That will usually just lead to passing 2 channel audio to your AVR for Dolby Pro Logic processing. There really is no point running optical from the tv to the AVR when you can run it directly from the PS3 to the AVR.

09-27-10, 09:46 PM

To me, the biggest advantage of the slims is that they use less power, and therefore, will produce less heat and may produce less fan noise. But one advantage the older models have that the newer ones don't have is is SACD playback, and possibly some better compatibility of older games. But for sound, LPCM works just fine.

Just to be clear, not all of the "fats"play SACD or PS2 games. Only early models.

Av8tr

09-27-10, 11:07 PM

As things exist today, you'll get the same sound using either HDMI or optical... so no sense adding the optical connection. Unless your AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4... in that case you might have to use the optical connection.

If the Denon AVR doesn't have HDMI 1.4, it's not very likely that it will pass 3D video from a Blu-ray so you'd have to connect the PS3 to the TV. Your audio would then have to go from the TV to the AVR or from the PS3 to the AVR so you might have to use the optical cable in that case... sound via optical to AVR, video to TV via HDMI. This might lead to lipsync issues your AVR could fix if it has a lipsync delay feature.

If the AVR has HDMI 1.4 all you need is an HDMI connection to the AVR and another HDMI from the AVR to the TV.

Thanks. My Denon does pass 3D so I won't bother with the optical cable. I'll play around with a 3D movie later on. I should be getting Ice age 3d in the next day or 2 so I'll report how poorly it sounds with this old DTS format;)

PaulGo

09-28-10, 01:16 PM

PlayStation 3D vs 3D Blu-ray player: Third-dimension face-off

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/playstation-3d-vs-3d-blu-ray-player-third-dimension-face-off-50000923/

heftysmurf

09-28-10, 02:45 PM

My debate is killing me.
I just bought a s570 and the speed and built in features are better but the PS3 has gaming.
Decisions decisions.
People who have owned the PS3 for a while have had the benefit of upgrades galore for new blu-ray functionality but it appears at least as a player it is no longer top of the heap though still very good.

rdclark

09-28-10, 03:21 PM

PlayStation 3D vs 3D Blu-ray player: Third-dimension face-off

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/playstation-3d-vs-3d-blu-ray-player-third-dimension-face-off-50000923/

"In a 2D picture-performance shoot-out, the stand-alone player also outgunned the PS3, offering more detail in its image."

I just have a lot of trouble with statements like this, unsupported (apparently) by data, measurements, or any other indication of controlled methodology. Or even of whether the writer understands what a potentially controversial statement that is. There is no reason for one BD player to produce a better picture from the same BD than another, if everything in the signal path is calibrated. Or to assume that, if there is a visible difference, that it isn't because of a malfunction. Or even to assume that one image is better than the other. You can't just toss a statement like that out there and not follow it up.

One man's "detail" is another man's "inaccurate gamma." And even professional technical writers are not immune to wish fulfillment.

Doug Blackburn

09-28-10, 05:56 PM

To me, the biggest advantage of the slims is that they use less power, and therefore, will produce less heat and may produce less fan noise. But one advantage the older models have that the newer ones don't have is is SACD playback, and possibly some better compatibility of older games. But for sound, LPCM works just fine.

SACD playback was removed about half-way through the life of the 'fat' PS3.

But cooling fans got much quieter around the same time -- or at least by the release of the last Gen fatty (80 GB).

Av8tr

09-28-10, 09:42 PM

Thanks. My Denon does pass 3D so I won't bother with the optical cable. I'll play around with a 3D movie later on. I should be getting Ice age 3d in the next day or 2 so I'll report how poorly it sounds with this old DTS format;)

Just tried out Monster House in 3D on my 1.4 Denon AVR and I was very pleased with the sound quality. I'm no audiophile, but I could hear no difference in sound with 3d vs 2d where the DTS HD MA lights were on.

1stsamdude

09-29-10, 11:57 AM

Hi all,

I was under the impression that once our PS3's recieved the 3D firmware (3.50), we would then have to be hooked up to a HDMI 1.4 spec AVR (or equivalent), or straight to display in order to get any 3D video to be displayed on screen. I am hear to say that my Marantz SR8002 purchased in early 2008 (never have had any firmware upgrdes) is passing 3D video to my Sammy PN58C8000 via HDMI (1.3A SPEC CABLES) with no issues regarding 3D other than no sound. My reciever actually shows the right number of speakers being displayed over in the corner of my AVR Display as if it were recieving the audio correctly but still no sound. I didn't think that a non 1.4 spec reciever could pas this 3D signal. I know it is because 1: My Tv ask me to turn on my glasses, 2: I can tell I am deffinetly in 3D. I am having to run a tosslink from PS3 to my AVR for my sound however which I expected. I thought I would have to run my HDMI cable to my TV but am happy to see I do not. Any ideas as to why this model is passing the 3D ok plus display as if it were infact recieving the right sound codec just no sound being out put.? Just curious. I have tried this with a CECHA01 60gb , and a Slim 160gb and both act in the same way. I would like to hear what you all think is going on here.

Thanks,
Jeff