Phil Harrison confirmed that PS3 will be region free for games. This means that those in Europe who wants to have a Region A BD player *AND* a PS3 can get a PS3 at launch. Those 500K units is going to be gone very very fast!


fuad

faud - Is Taiwan in region A or clumped with China?

I still haven't heard definitively.

thank God my A1 is region free

According to Alex's post here: (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8346650&&#post8346650)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8595/picture1cz1.jpg Taiwan falls under South East Asia, which is Region A. I admit, the graphic is rather fuzzy for Taiwan. Still the Chinese government will be up in arms!


fuad

woohoo!

woohoo! Yeah, you've got 8 weeks to camp out for a PS3 in Akihibara! :D


fuad

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/PlayStation_3/High-Def_DVD_Gaming/PlayStation_3_Goes_TrueHD_for_Blu-ray_Playback/255

PlayStation 3 Goes TrueHD for Blu-ray Playback
Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:14 PM ET

Following weeks of rumors, Dolby has confirmed the surround capabilities built into Sony's next-gen game console.

As expected, the Blu-ray player built into the PS3 will support both Dolby TrueHD as well as Dolby Digital. For games, the console will support interactive Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound.

Developed exclusively for high-def disc-based consumer media, Dolby TrueHD made waves with early adopters a few weeks back when it was first made available via a firmware upgrade to Toshiba's first-gen HD DVD players. Its inclusion in the PS3 should give the format a well-needed boost.

Of course, first we'll need some Blu-ray discs that actually carry TrueHD tracks -- so far, no Blu-ray supporting studios have released any disc titles featuring the lossless audio format. That's unlike rival HD DVD, which has seen the inclusion of Dolby TrueHD on a number of well-received disc titles, including 'Training Day,' 'The Perfect Storm' and 'Troy.' Hopefully now that the PS3 is officially TrueHD-capable, the extra incentive will be there for Blu-ray-supporting content providers to begin embracing the high-def audio format.

http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/ps3-news/new.asp?newID=138

According to this source:

"The PS3 will utilize a new form of HDMI called HDMI 1.3"
I would say this is the exact point where I may start to consider the PS3 as a decent BD player. I'm still not buying until I see it playing.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/PlayStation_3/High-Def_DVD_Gaming/PlayStation_3_Goes_TrueHD_for_Blu-ray_Playback/255

PlayStation 3 Goes TrueHD for Blu-ray Playback
Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 02:14 PM ET

Following weeks of rumors, Dolby has confirmed the surround capabilities built into Sony's next-gen game console.

As expected, the Blu-ray player built into the PS3 will support both Dolby TrueHD as well as Dolby Digital. For games, the console will support interactive Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound.

Developed exclusively for high-def disc-based consumer media, Dolby TrueHD made waves with early adopters a few weeks back when it was first made available via a firmware upgrade to Toshiba's first-gen HD DVD players. Its inclusion in the PS3 should give the format a well-needed boost.

Of course, first we'll need some Blu-ray discs that actually carry TrueHD tracks -- so far, no Blu-ray supporting studios have released any disc titles featuring the lossless audio format. That's unlike rival HD DVD, which has seen the inclusion of Dolby TrueHD on a number of well-received disc titles, including 'Training Day,' 'The Perfect Storm' and 'Troy.' Hopefully now that the PS3 is officially TrueHD-capable, the extra incentive will be there for Blu-ray-supporting content providers to begin embracing the high-def audio format.


I was just about to post that

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ewatch%2eimpress%2eco%2ejp%2fav%2fdocs%2 f20060922%2fbuffalo2%2ehtm

The dolby laboratories Japanese branch office, announced that SONY [konpiyutaentateinmento] sells “PLAYSTATION 3 (PS3)”, the loss less (reversible) compressed audio codec “TrueHD” of Dolby and, “Dolby digital” is adopted from November 11th.


　With PS3, besides the fact that game title is supplied with Blu-ray Disc, it loads also the playback function of the BD video software of marketing, but TrueHD and Dolby of maximum 7.1ch it corresponds digitally concerning BD video playback. As a sound for the game, Dolby digital is adopted.




http://www.dolby.com/promo/HD/trueHD.html

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20060901/ifa01_03.jpg

Can the PS3 output 1080p/24?

Can the PS3 output 1080p/24?

Man, everyone seems to be getting a hardon over 1080p/24.

Man, everyone seems to be getting a hardon over 1080p/24.

And the answer is???????................can it? :)

Well SCEA just updated their US website to yesterday's news.

No dual HDMI.

The only difference is the HDD size, the Wifi capability and the card reader slots.


fuad

And the answer is???????................can it? :)It can output 1080p/60 via HDMI 1.3. Enough said.


PS3 photo & web browsing
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6358

So the base model is expeced to come with a wireless controller?

It can output 1080p/60 via HDMI 1.3. Enough said.


PS3 photo & web browsing
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6358

Not enough said really! :D

Will not give optimum BluRay movie playback with a 1080p/24 capable display then....will it? :)

Ken said it would a long time ago. I'll see if I can find the quote.

So the base model is expeced to come with a wireless controller? One Bluetooth controller. Yes. Basic. If you want a Bluetooth headset, you can get one now from any vendor or just use one from your cell phone.


fuad

Lol, it feels like a row of tents outside of a Target waiting for the PS3 in here :)

If you don't happen to get a PS3 on launch day, and you pay more then 100 over the level of PS3, you are desperate for having the latest technology.

New gaming platforms/video cards have become so hyped and "cool" to the point that people will pretty much jump off a bridge to get one, and then what?

You can say you're cool because you have one?

How many launch games do you get?

This is getting old, how many times are we going to be put through launches??

It's a subculture. Some people get into it, others don't mind waiting for stocks to rise. I am waiting for the Taiwan launch because I want to make sure I have full traditional Chinese support with the web browser and to make sure I can play the BD movies in our region. According to the map Taiwan is in the same region as the US and Japan, but I want to be sure we don't get screwed into the China category.

I feel sorry for everyone not in region A/1.

Sony drops PS3 price in Japan
Company sets lower price point to compete with Xbox 360
By Susanne Ault 9/22/2006
SEPT. 22 | It’s game on, as Sony dropped its PlayStation 3 Japanese retail price to 49,980 yen ($410 U.S.), days after Microsoft set its Xbox 360 HD DVD drive to a relatively low 19,800 yen ($170).

Originally, Sony had set the PS3, which will play competing Blu-ray discs, at 59,800 yen ($510). In Japan, PS3 launches Nov. 11.

Sony has only changed pricing on the 20GB PS3 and has not similarly slashed its higher end 60GB PS3, which is set at $599 in the U.S.

The Xbox 360 HD DVD drive arrives in Japan shortly after PS3 on Nov. 22. This add-on is expected to represent the cheapest high-def player so far in both the U.S. and Japanese markets (VB, 9-21). The Xbox 360 HD DVD drive should bow for U.S. consumers by the holidays.

At this point, Sony is not changing its pricing for its U.S. PS3, which will hit domestic retailers Nov. 17 at $499.


Sony additionally said its 20GB PS3 model will come standard with HDMI output, previously only available with the 60 GB version.

This is getting old, how many times are we going to be put through launches?? On every single product launch.

Seriously, if you feel that it's getting old and you're not buying into the hype, then you really do not need to read this thread.


fuad

This is getting old, how many times are we going to be put through launches??
So what are you saying?
You'd rather there be no product launches & we still had Pong as state of the art??

I'm not saying that innovation is bad, i'm just sick of the formulated hype, then wait, then undelivery/pilaging that goes on..

I'm going to nab a ps3, and have a 360 (paid 100 over msrp to get one a couple months after the supply still wasn't meeting demand), have a hdvd player, wanted to nab a br player, etc. etc..

The ringer is what i'm sick of..

Back when I was 13, even though the NES was popular you could still get one.

Artificial or not, the shortages at launch are suspect to me...

http://static.flickr.com/88/249427208_b7bd2a0f3e_b.jpg

Well at least that's what the banner card says.

Still hope that this would be true for the final versions of the games coming in November-December.

There was apparently an overheat problem with the PS3 running Ridge Racer 7 at the TGS.

Japanese gaming sites are all over on this.

There was apparently an overheat problem with the PS3 running Ridge Racer 7 at the TGS.

Japanese gaming sites are all over on this.
Was this from being locked inside a small plexiglass enclosure with no air circulation? If so, that's not a true representation of its cooling ability. I really don't think we'll know anything firm about this until we get our hands on the unit and put it through marathon gaming sessions.

Here is a link (http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=211947) from Dolby confirming TrueHD 7.1 decoding. Great news indeed.

Was this from being locked inside a small plexiglass enclosure with no air circulation? If so, that's not a true representation of its cooling ability. I really don't think we'll know anything firm about this until we get our hands on the unit and put it through marathon gaming sessions.

Yeah it was locked in a case, and considering that the website "that shall not be mentioned because it sucks" only had one picture to show from 200 or so units on the showfloor it really didnt seem like a problem. Unless someone wants to make it one.

Well at least that's what the banner card says.

Still hope that this would be true for the final versions of the games coming in November-December.

6 Titles so far confirmed as 1080p

Here is a link (http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=211947) from Dolby confirming TrueHD 7.1 decoding. Great news indeed.

Just to confirm, can I get Dolby TrueHD over the fiber cable coming from the PS3?

Just to confirm, can I get Dolby TrueHD over the fiber cable coming from the PS3?

No! HDMI only. Decoding done inside the player.

IS SONY Doomed?
http://www.electricsistahood.com/reviews/2006/09/do-math-will-sony-go-broke.html

IS SONY Doomed?
http://www.electricsistahood.com/reviews/2006/09/do-math-will-sony-go-broke.html

I stopped reading after this

"Sony is looking at a potential for demise it has never faced before. With the failure of its TV and music electronics businesses and its up-and-down movie business, it has relied more and more on the video game business to keep profits up"


Sony Wega LCD projection TV is the best selling HDTV on the market.

Has anybody heard when we can expect to get some reports/reviews/impressions of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player?

Has anybody heard when we can expect to get some reports/reviews/impressions of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player?

I'm working on it.

Has anybody heard when we can expect to get some reports/reviews/impressions of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player?

You bet you will see some on avsforum

IS SONY Doomed?
http://www.electricsistahood.com/reviews/2006/09/do-math-will-sony-go-broke.html
No.

The failure of this article lies on second hand reporting, no actual fact checking and ignoring facts that don't support the thesis - or in other words, being biased instead of impartial.

The financial analysis itself is rather funny.


fuad

Just to confirm, can I get Dolby TrueHD over the fiber cable coming from the PS3? You can't even get TrueHD over optical on either the Samsung BD player or the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

You can get TrueHD via HDMI 1.2 AFTER it's been decoded as LPCM. Not sure what's the minimum criteria for bitstream passthrough over HDMI.


fuad

6 Titles so far confirmed as 1080p

Which titles? (Which MS executive said there would be NO 1080p titles?)

Which titles? (Which MS executive said there would be NO 1080p titles?) Lair, Mobile Suit Gundam, Virtua Tennis 3, Gran Turismo HD, Ridge Racer 7 and NBA '07. Developers of Resistence: Fall Of Man are trying to upgrade it from 720p to 1080p, reportedly.


fuad

Which titles? (Which MS executive said there would be NO 1080p titles?)

Andre Vrignaud -Microsoft’s director of technical strategy for Xbox Live
"In fact, I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080"x" games for the PS3 this year."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=144727

Andre Vrignaud -Microsoft’s director of technical strategy for Xbox Live
"In fact, I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080"x" games for the PS3 this year."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=144727

That's always the best time to punch one right in the throat. :D

That's always the best time to punch one right in the throat. :D

lol, good call.

I was thinking this when I read it:
http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_SM/0018-0608-0707-3521_SM.jpg

PS3 Games To Cost Near $100?

Last week's excitement over Sony dropping the price of the PS3 in Japan may prove to be short lived with news coming out of the Tokyo Game Show that some PS3 games may cost nearly $100. Sources indicate that several PS3 games will retail for around $76 to $84, well above the current generation's $40 to $50; the price increase can be chalked up to increased development costs. Sony seems to have a knack for shooting themselves in the foot, no? – Nicholas Deleon

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-games-to-cost-near-100-202941.php

You can't even get TrueHD over optical on either the Samsung BD player or the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

You can get TrueHD via HDMI 1.2 AFTER it's been decoded as LPCM. Not sure what's the minimum criteria for bitstream passthrough over HDMI.


fuad

Thanks, since I don't have an A/V receiver with HDMI I guess I am out of luck :(

Too bad it doesn't have analog outs like the stand alone players, but you can't have everything.

PS3 Games To Cost Near $100?

Last week's excitement over Sony dropping the price of the PS3 in Japan may prove to be short lived with news coming out of the Tokyo Game Show that some PS3 games may cost nearly $100. Sources indicate that several PS3 games will retail for around $76 to $84, well above the current generation's $40 to $50; the price increase can be chalked up to increased development costs. Sony seems to have a knack for shooting themselves in the foot, no? – Nicholas Deleon



http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-games-to-cost-near-100-202941.php



According to Activision, they'll be the same price as xbox360 games $60

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733047p1.html

According to Sony's website $59.99.. According to Best Buy's website $59.99, etc etc

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=games_ps3&Dept=moviesmusic

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/16/2006

Game $59.99



Call of Duty 3
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/9/2006

Game $59.99



Full Auto 2: Battlelines
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/23/2006

Game $59.99



Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/9/2006

Game $59.99



Sonic the Hedgehog
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/16/2006

Game $59.99



Tony Hawk's Project 8
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/9/2006

Game $59.99



Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom
PlayStation 3

Release Date: 11/2/2006

Game $59.99

Andre Vrignaud -Microsoft’s director of technical strategy for Xbox Live
"In fact, I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080"x" games for the PS3 this year."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=144727R.I.Pieces.


fuad

now that i have seen the PS3 in action.

as a bluray player as well as a game machine. there is only 1 way that sony lose this battle and that is because of themselfs. if sony lose, it wont be because of HD-DVD or xbox360.

it wont be because of the PS3. because the PS3 is the most amazing machine i have ever laid my eyes on or handled. sony must have aliens working there or something because it is not normal.

so if sony fails. it is all because of themselfs. stuff they have in their own hands. like releasing enough units. quality games,and quality movies.

if sony does that. sony will win. if sony screw 1 of those things they will suffer, and they only will have to blame themselfs for it.

I think Sony need to get a cheaper stand-alone unit out. They can't seem to do that right now because the PS3 is hogging all the blue laser components.

Did you not start a another exact same thread? there is a PS3 section you know?

if sony does that. sony will win. if sony screw 1 of those things they will suffer, and they only will have to blame themselfs for it. I assume you went to TGS. :D I don't suppose they demoed BD movie there, did they?

If what you say is true, it is scary. This PS3 is going to be very high in demand!


fuad

I can think of a few other ways Blu-Ray could lose. If BD movies continue to be produced often with a dark and grainy appearance, and look as though they were in 540 instead of 1080p, then that could have a more major effect on the outcome of this battle...

sony demoed BD movies on PS3 and does do all the time in Ginza here in tokyo at sony building. exit close to B9 when you take the underground.

rover 2002 i didnt put an excact same thread on there in the hdtv section. that post was more meant about the chosing between 1080P and 720P.

this post is more about why ps3 as a player and gamemachine will decide the format war and that sony holds the cards in the war. and can only fall down because of themselfs.

people make this war to much about Hd-DVd vs blu-ray while it is more a war of sony screwing themself up by not delivering.

and yes i was at the TGS and it was bloody amazing. pictures, game trailers dont do those games justice. you have to play and experience it yourself.

I assume you went to TGS. :D I don't suppose they demoed BD movie there, did they?

If what you say is true, it is scary. This PS3 is going to be very high in demand!


fuad
I seriously hope so I have 6 pre ordered plan to sell them at 1200/piece on ebay come Nov. 17. :D

merged threads

so if sony fails. it is all because of themselfs. stuff they have in their own hands. like releasing enough units. quality games,and quality movies.

So, your thesis is that Sony needs to release enough quality product to do well? :) I don't imagine you'll get much debate about that. Actually, if you include something about hardware pricing in that sentence, it's basically what everyone has been saying since the day HD DVD launched.

well the thing is i am one of the view people here who have seen it as a game machine and as a bluray player.

and i was really sceptic. hack i have more hd-dvd movies here then blu ray movies and i have a xbox360. but since i saw the ps3 as a game machine as well. it just blows your mind that all comes out of 1 single machine. there is seriously nothing i have seen on a pc or xbox360 that comes close graphicly speaking to the PS3. except for crysis. crysis is the type of game that lair and motorstorm do in terms of physics and graphics.

i mean if you see a game like lost planet on the xbox360 which runs at 30 frames max. and a game like devil may cry 4 on PS3 which basicly using the same engine and runs easy at 60 frames a second. like it does it with 1 finger. if you show that kind of power already now the first generation of games. it is just scary.

i mean if you see a game like lost planet on the xbox360 which runs at 30 frames max. and a game like devil may cry 4 on PS3 which basicly using the same engine and runs easy at 60 frames a second. like it does it with 1 finger.
I know one thing, a LOT of people have been waving one finger at Sony lately.

So, your thesis is that Sony needs to release enough quality product to do well? :) I don't imagine you'll get much debate about that. Actually, if you include something about hardware pricing in that sentence, it's basically what everyone has been saying since the day HD DVD launched.

You know, the whole "PS3 is overpriced" thing REALLY needs to die. I understand it in a forum populated by 14-year-olds w/ no jobs...but this is a different kind of forum for a different kind of consumer electronics consumer. And the younger set here who are into home theater and electronic entertainment SHOULD get what the PS3 is about.

This is a forum where folks drop thousands on components to do things like power condition and play CDs--and this is a box that is packed w/ new technology to handle the uppper thresholds of graphics and HD video. Hell, I watched someone just spend $480 on a Pioneer CLD-99 laserdisc player on Ebay (w/ no remote nor manual). Its a fine piece of equipment, one of the best of its kind...but its how many years old and its video is 1/6th the resolution of 1080P!!! Even apples to apples, the XBOX 360 w/ all the bells-and-whistles to match a similarly equipped PS3 (wireless, HD-DVD drive, etc.) is about the same cost, btw. And no HDMI 1.3, and a kludged 1080P. So what the hell, people?!

I, for one, will go on the record in saying that the PS3 will prove to be the most important home video product to come out this year, bar none. Chased only by Apple's still-to-be-announced 16:9 next-generation video iPod if they decide to 'surpise' us before the holidays. It is the one product to pack the most forward-thinking high-end hardware into an elegantly designed mainstream device...and at $600, its nothing compared to the limited-use niche market products people about AVS bow down to.

But I guess value is lost on some who've lost perspective.

I know one thing, a LOT of people have been waving one finger at Sony lately.

But as of TGS, it's becoming a nod of the head. Even many of those that live to hate Sony have started singing a different tune.

IMO, the inclusion of HDMI in the base system is a crucial move. Everyone here should be discussing this console on it's merits for A/V functionality as well, rather than constantly bringing up games (of which this forum is not about); and frankly in that light pending the first reviews, for the price this system excels.

You know, the whole "PS3 is overpriced" thing REALLY needs to die. I understand it in a forum populated by 14-year-olds w/ no jobs...but this is a different kind of forum for a different kind of consumer electronics consumer. And the younger set here who are into home theater and electronic entertainment SHOULD get what the PS3 is about.

This is a forum where folks drop thousands on components to do things like power condition and play CDs--and this is a box that is packed w/ new technology to handle the uppper thresholds of graphics and HD video. Hell, I watched someone just spend $480 on a Pioneer CLD-99 laserdisc player on Ebay (w/ no remote nor manual). Its a fine piece of equipment, one of the best of its kind...but its how many years old and its video is 1/6th the resolution of 1080P!!! Even apples to apples, the XBOX 360 w/ all the bells-and-whistles to match a similarly equipped PS3 (wireless, HD-DVD drive, etc.) is about the same cost, btw. And no HDMI 1.3, and a kludged 1080P. So what the hell, people?!

I, for one, will go on the record in saying that the PS3 will prove to be the most important home video product to come out this year, bar none. Chased only by Apple's still-to-be-announced 16:9 next-generation video iPod if they decide to 'surpise' us before the holidays. It is the one product to pack the most forward-thinking high-end hardware into an elegantly designed mainstream device...and at $600, its nothing compared to the limited-use niche market products people about AVS bow down to.

But I guess value is lost on some who've lost perspective.

The problem is not with value but choice. Sony doesn't give you a choice to adopt any of the technology included with the PS3. At least if I don't have an HD player, I can choose not too. This is the difference :

Sony says you HAVE to buy it
MS says if you want it, will make it

The problem is not with value but choice. Sony doesn't give you a choice to adopt any of the technology included with the PS3. At least if I don't have an HD player, I can choose not too. This is the difference :

Sony says you HAVE to buy it
MS says if you want it, will make it

But so what? The choice is whether you buy what's offered to you; Sony has made their decisions for their own reasons, as was their choice.

A product has been offered - buy it if you want, or don't if you won't. What that's inside of the PS3 would you wish they had excluded? And does such inclusion make you wretch to such a degree that it would preclude your purchase on those grounds?

Sony is 'forcing' you to buy a Blu-ray player with PS3 every bit as much as MS is 'forcing' you to buy a DVD player with 360.

The problem is not with value but choice. Sony doesn't give you a choice to adopt any of the technology included with the PS3. At least if I don't have an HD player, I can choose not too. This is the difference :

Sony says you HAVE to buy it
MS says if you want it, will make it

There are several teirs of gaming. The consumer has a choice as to what they buy. Nintendo offers it's package, MS offer it's package, Sony offer's their package as well. Of course there is also PC gaming.

By buying the 360 you are adopting the technology included, just like the Nintendo just like the PS3. Pretty simple. The choice is yours to make as to what is right for you.

"Hey MS, I want the 360 with a HD-DVD standard and I want it to be used for games? " Oh, they didn't make it.

"MS, I want HDMI 1.3 for my 360. " Oh, they didn't make it.

It seems with the PS3 I can use component or HDMI 1.3 :p

edit: Sure I'd like more out of the Wii as well, like HD gaming an more power but they are what they are.

"Nintendo with the Wii didn't force gamers into paying more for more ram, more expensive GPU, more expensive processors" :eek:

I wish they did, just like I wish MS did with the HD-DVD.

Does anyone know if the ps3 AV multi out will be the same as the AV multi out for the PS2?

I have monster component video cables for the ps2. I was hoping I could use the same cables until I buy myself an HDMI to DVI connection.

The cables ran somewhere in the $50 dollar range so If I dont have to waste them I wont.

Also, since my TV is 1080i and not 1080p I dont know if spending a crap load of money on the HDMI to DVI would be worth it at all. Expecially if I end up buying a fairly cheap HDMI to DVI connection and not go with kick ass quality cales from monster, which would cost over $100 for a 8' cable (which Id need).

Oh yeah. This would also help me since I wont have to buy an HDMI cable thats not included with the PS3 (dumbest thing ever)

The problem is not with value but choice. Sony doesn't give you a choice to adopt any of the technology included with the PS3. At least if I don't have an HD player, I can choose not too. This is the difference :

Sony says you HAVE to buy it
MS says if you want it, will make it


Resistance: Fall of man is 23gigs.....thats over 3 dvds just for a first gen game. Next generation means more space. Hell I'm not gonna pay 250bux for a nintendo system thats barely more powerful then the first xbox. Nintendo even said it them self that they are gonna make a profit off Wii from launch. Screw that, I'd rather pay couple hundred bux more for HD graphics and HD movies.


BTW, noone at sony says you need to buy it. if you think weaker stripped out system is better, there is the Wii and ps2.

The problem is not with value but choice. Sony doesn't give you a choice to adopt any of the technology included with the PS3. At least if I don't have an HD player, I can choose not too. This is the difference :

Sony says you HAVE to buy it
MS says if you want it, will make it

Actually Sony said we are going to build a true next gen system, it may be expensive but it will be the best we can make it.
MS said we will build a cheaper system using old tech that will shurely fail in Japan but the cheapskates in the states will scoop them up! LOL!

From what I've seen the PS3 is blowing everyone away at TGS, so it looks like Sony did there homework.

Does anyone know if the ps3 AV multi out will be the same as the AV multi out for the PS2?

I have monster component video cables for the ps2. I was hoping I could use the same cables until I buy myself an HDMI to DVI connection.

The cables ran somewhere in the $50 dollar range so If I dont have to waste them I wont.

Also, since my TV is 1080i and not 1080p I dont know if spending a crap load of money on the HDMI to DVI would be worth it at all. Expecially if I end up buying a fairly cheap HDMI to DVI connection and not go with kick ass quality cales from monster, which would cost over $100 for a 8' cable (which Id need).

Oh yeah. This would also help me since I wont have to buy an HDMI cable thats not included with the PS3 (dumbest thing ever)

From the pictures the connection looks the same, though that doesn't guarantee anything. We'll have to wait and find out.

at $600, its nothing compared to the limited-use niche market products people about AVS bow down to.

That's certainly true. But bluray won't "win the war" by appealing only to AVS people and a niche market.

Price discussions aren't always about what *we're* willing to pay. Companies on both sides of the war are ultimately hoping that this catches on with the masses.

Does anyone know if the ps3 AV multi out will be the same as the AV multi out for the PS2?

I have monster component video cables for the ps2. I was hoping I could use the same cables until I buy myself an HDMI to DVI connection. Here's a link to Monoprice's range of HDMI-DVI cables. (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style=) Choose the length. The longer the length, the more expensive it is. The shorter the length, the cheaper and if it's short, it doesn't matter if it's Mono or Monster cables.


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http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/msuman2k4/bbsps2006.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/msuman2k4/newslide.jpg

It looks the same as the PS2's in pictures

From Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a7jumJGI5oWE&refer=asia) Sony to Boost PlayStation 3 Demonstrations Fivefold (Update2)

By Michael White

Sept. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Sony Corp. will use five times the number of U.S. demonstration booths to promote the PlayStation 3 as it did for the last console, part of a plan to keep users from defecting to Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox and Nintendo Co.'s Wii.

Sony, the world's largest maker of video-game consoles, will spend $30 million to put the consoles in 15,000 U.S. and Canadian kiosks during the holiday season, said Jack Tretton, co-chief operating officer of Sony Computer Entertainment America. The 2000 introduction of PlayStation 2, which dominated the last generation of game consoles, used 3,000 demo booths.

``Once the consumers get their hands on a PS3 and understand what's under the hood, I think price will not be a factor in the decision-making process,'' Tretton said in an interview.


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From Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a7jumJGI5oWE&refer=asia)


fuad

Sweet. I may be spending a bit more time in Best Buy and Circuit City very soon :D

That's certainly true. But bluray won't "win the war" by appealing only to AVS people and a niche market.

Price discussions aren't always about what *we're* willing to pay. Companies on both sides of the war are ultimately hoping that this catches on with the masses.

That's exactly my point. Dedicated $500-$1500 HD-DVD and Blu-ray players are NOT going to catch the eye/imagination of the general public this holiday season when the masses are walking past $50 DVD players and aren't sure what the hell the fuss is all about...

But a $500-$600 HD gaming machine that also plays those fancy new HD movie discs...I'll bet you money that THAT gets certain segments full attention. I expect great things of both the XBox 360 and the PS3 in that regards. As the map posted above suggests...they're to be the literal 'heart' of the Best Buys' sales floor over the holiday shopping season. So what does that tell us?

Sweet. I may be spending a bit more time in Best Buy and Circuit City very soon :D Doing what? Trying to figure out how to get the PS3 and controller out of the plastic box? :D

HOPEFULLY these demoes will also include BD playback demo that you can use with your own BD discs.


fuad

Resistance: Fall of man is 23gigs.....thats over 3 dvds just for a first gen game. Next generation means more space. Hell I'm not gonna pay 250bux for a nintendo system thats barely more powerful then the first xbox. Nintendo even said it them self that they are gonna make a profit off Wii from launch. Screw that, I'd rather pay couple hundred bux more for HD graphics and HD movies.


BTW, noone at sony says you need to buy it. if you think weaker stripped out system is better, there is the Wii and ps2.

If a game is using 23 gig it's because they are lazy developer that probably used 20gig of CG between level. I like the playstation brand as much as anyone in this thread. Im an owner of playstation 2. I think blu-ray was not necessary this generation. What the PS3 needed was more RAM and easier tool for developer. Instead they have made a very difficult processor to work with, limited amount of ram but more disk space.

I can understand how the Wii might not please anyone. It's aim at casual gamer and I think that it will have considerable success. Nintendo is trying to bring the cost of games down. This is why so many game developer embrace the Wii platform. You have to see alot of more games on PS3 before you get back your investment.

PS3 Games To Cost Near $100?

Last week's excitement over Sony dropping the price of the PS3 in Japan may prove to be short lived with news coming out of the Tokyo Game Show that some PS3 games may cost nearly $100. Sources indicate that several PS3 games will retail for around $76 to $84, well above the current generation's $40 to $50; the price increase can be chalked up to increased development costs. Sony seems to have a knack for shooting themselves in the foot, no? – Nicholas Deleon

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-games-to-cost-near-100-202941.php



Yeah so far it looks like 59.95, but good call anyway!

I seriously hope so I have 6 pre ordered plan to sell them at 1200/piece on ebay come Nov. 17. :D

People like you get the karma back, and it´s well desevered.

Good luck

symtex that is already a faulty point.

the creators of Lair already explained that 1 level of the game is 4 gigabyte. now tell me if they are lazy programmers when they have programmed games for the c64, amiga, and n64 . games like the great giana sisters, turrican, x-out, z-out, star wars rque squadron all come from Factor 5.

Instead they have made a very difficult processor to work with, limited amount of ram but more disk space.


It´s easier than the PS2, which had games that easily rivalved the supposedly "powerfull" XBOX. They have had more tools and information access than they had with the PS2. It´s a IBM chip with tons of information easily availble (in english this time!. The RSX chip is a Nvidia chip that is well documented and has the complete support from Nvidia with shader tools etc etc. There has been dev kits out there for a longer time than the PS2 as well. The launch games is better than the PSX,PS2, and 360 games. And they easily puts your "limited amount of ram" statement in it´s place where it belongs, together with the no 1080p games comments from Microsoft.

Anyone claiming that more space is a problem is wrong, i don´t remember when there ever were someone saying this. It takes a war of religion or consoles to make people say stupid **** like that.

I've heard through the grape vine about how ****** the PS3 dev kits have been, how the test platforms they have developed on have been scaled back, and how the end result of the PS3 isn't what it was first supposed to be..

Was Xbox360 any different when being developed, I dunno.. I would suspect compromises had and were made.

More space is always nice, but more space doesn't always equate to better game play..
Some games that don't take up 50gigs are classic, timeless, and always fun -- games like the orignial Prince of Persia come to mind (put that on your BD disc and smoke it).. Some 50gig games will be a big pile of turd 1080p or not. There probably will be some that use the space wisely, but they will be limited in my opinion...

It's not all about specs, it is about what you enjoy. And some people just enjoy specs..

That's what is so brilliant about the Wii, in all its 480p glory.

Nintendo even said it them self that they are gonna make a profit off Wii from launch. Screw that, I'd rather pay couple hundred bux more for HD graphics and HD movies.


Nintendo is smart. They may end up making more net profit this generation that MS and Sony. IMO, having Wii sports packed it is worth the $250 already. Just wait until Mario, Zelda, Pilotwings (drool) and Metroid come.

Nintendo is smart. They may end up making more net profit this generation that MS and Sony. IMO, having Wii sports packed it is worth the $250 already. Just wait until Mario, Zelda, Pilotwings (drool) and Metroid come.

i have no doubt they are gonna make alot of money, but Wii isn't the next generation system. Pretty much gamecube 1.5 with fancy controller and have no interest in it at all. Hell even the 360 is a better bargain compared to the nintendo. Pretty much what you are paying for is the 60 dollar controller and the 20dollar add on nunchuck crap. I bought this fancy new HDtv, I wanna see some fancy games on it. PS2 looks like absolute crap on it.

PS3 Games To Cost Near $100?

Last week's excitement over Sony dropping the price of the PS3 in Japan may prove to be short lived with news coming out of the Tokyo Game Show that some PS3 games may cost nearly $100. Sources indicate that several PS3 games will retail for around $76 to $84, well above the current generation's $40 to $50; the price increase can be chalked up to increased development costs. Sony seems to have a knack for shooting themselves in the foot, no? – Nicholas Deleon

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-games-to-cost-near-100-202941.php



R.I.P Sony. LMAO

R.I.P Sony. LMAO

PS3 games are $59.99 in the US, calm down there Vurbano...

PS3 Games To Cost Near $100?

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-games-to-cost-near-100-202941.php

Just to make sure that everybody knows that Gizmodo, yet once again, are having foot-in-mouth for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
R.I.P Sony. LMAO
And Gizmodo is inviting a friend.
From Gizmodo themselves. (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/playstation-3-games-to-be-59--looks-like-theyre-sane-after-all-203312.php) The rumor that PS3 games are going to cost $75 to $84 was pretty much inaccurate, and caused by a simple conversion from yen to dollars instead of any official price release. The official price in the US, as listed on Sony's official Sony Style site is $59. Same as the Xbox 360.

Though, it's a bit strange that Japan will be paying that much more than the US for PS3 games. Seeing as Europe's Xbox 360 games are nearly $100 USD now, $74 to $85 would be a bargain for them. – Jason Chen Sometimes it's good to understand how different things work in different countries. The people at Gizmodo have CLEARLY not, even though they say they are tech-wise.


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http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154030

Why would anyone pay $1000 to $1700 for a stand-alone Blu-ray player when a Sony P3 (with a built-in Blu-ray player) will purportedly sell for less than 500 dollars?

Sony is still trying to figure this one out too

Yeah, I can't imagine spending as much as they're going to charge for the PS/3 ... and I've heard that there might not even be a Blu-Ray disc in there. At that point, it's right out.

What has everyone else heard?

Anyone claiming that more space is a problem is wrong, i don´t remember when there ever were someone saying this. It takes a war of religion or consoles to make people say stupid **** like that.

Amen. I just can't believe that anyone would actually seriously say this!? It's like complaining that the harddrives are getting bigger, that DL DVD-R was released, that more is bad for you....

As you say, you truly expose yourself as a fanboy if you claim stuff like this. Lazy to not fit it all into 8-9GB?? Ridiculous. Just because YOUR favorite console maker didn't have the guts or foresight to include next-gen storage, doesn't mean that all others should to the same...

Yeah, I can't imagine spending as much as they're going to charge for the PS/3 ... and I've heard that there might not even be a Blu-Ray disc in there. At that point, it's right out.

What has everyone else heard?

I'm buying it. It's not like I won't buy the $600 console beacuse there is no $25 disc included... I paid $1200 for my first DVD player years back. So this is "cheap". :)
There are plenty of HT enthusiasts out there who a) Don't think $1000+ is much for a high-end player, b) Don't want a "game console" as their next-gen HD player, c) Want something that fits in their rack, d) Are waiting for Blu-ray players that also records etc.

It's not like I won't buy the $600 console$500. The 20GB version has HDMI too and it's as good as the $600 version for Blu-ray playback.

Amen. I just can't believe that anyone would actually seriously say this!? It's like complaining that the harddrives are getting bigger, that DL DVD-R was released, that more is bad for you....

As you say, you truly expose yourself as a fanboy if you claim stuff like this. Lazy to not fit it all into 8-9GB?? Ridiculous. Just because YOUR favorite console maker didn't have the guts or foresight to include next-gen storage, doesn't mean that all others should to the same...

I never said more space is wrong, I said might not be necessary. With all the compression technique now, you can fit any next-gen game on a DVD9. You can use procedural rendering and in-game engine cutscene. Look at the PC market, even a game like WoW is not more then 6gig in total. Im suspicious of all the late ps3 developer. They are going out of their way to push Blu-ray.

I have all 3 console (GCN, XBOX ,PS2) and X360. I will probably buy a ps3 and Nintendo Wii too. It's not because I'm making a judgement on certain technology choice that I am a fanboy. I think that this generation didn't need a next-gen drive. I do think they needed to have a Hard Drive. I was opposed to the X360 Core to begin with.

I never said more space is wrong, I said might not be necessary. With all the compression technique now, you can fit any next-gen game on a DVD9. You can use procedural rendering and in-game engine cutscene. Look at the PC market, even a game like WoW is not more then 6gig in total. Im suspicious of all the late ps3 developer. They are going out of their way to push Blu-ray.

I have all 3 console (GCN, XBOX ,PS2) and X360. I will probably buy a ps3 and Nintendo Wii too. It's not because I'm making a judgement on certain technology choice that I am a fanboy. I think that this generation didn't need a next-gen drive. I do think they needed to have a Hard Drive. I was opposed to the X360 Core to begin with.


explain how "Resistance" for ps3 uses 23 gigs? When you are using 1080p graphics and 512mb of ram, that 9gigs is nothing.

now your sounding like bill gates.

"No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer." - Bill Gates

explain how "Resistance" for ps3 uses 23 gigs? When you are using 1080p graphics and 512mb of ram, that 9gigs is nothing.

now your sounding like bill gates.

"No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer." - Bill Gates

It doesn't matter how many space you have on a disc or physical media when you can only load a certain amount in RAM. Personally, I think the PS3 would have been better off with more ram and more enable SPE then a blu-ray drive.

It doesn't matter how many space you have on a disc or physical media when you can only load a certain amount in RAM. Personally, I think the PS3 would have been better off with more ram and more enable SPE then a blu-ray drive.


Uhm?? 256mb main memory and 256 of video memory which is 16times the ram the PS2. First application of XDR ram. Extreme Data Rate, fast memory for multimedia applications. At transmission speeds up to 9.6GB per second, these chips will fly about 12 times faster than DDR400 memory. They're especially designed to handle maximum performance for applications requiring advanced imaging and 3D graphics.

Come on give some respect where its due. Sony promised absolute next generation system, and they did. If you dont like it, don't buy it. I'm sure sony will sell every single one made.

$500. The 20GB version has HDMI too and it's as good as the $600 version for Blu-ray playback.

I know. I was saying what I'm going to do... :)

Uhm?? 256mb main memory and 256 of video memory which is 16times the ram the PS2. First application of XDR ram. Extreme Data Rate, fast memory for multimedia applications. At transmission speeds up to 9.6GB per second, these chips will fly about 12 times faster than DDR400 memory. They're especially designed to handle maximum performance for applications requiring advanced imaging and 3D graphics.

Come on give some respect where its due. Sony promised absolute next generation system, and they did. If you dont like it, don't buy it. I'm sure sony will sell every single one made.

They made some strange architectural choices. In theory, The PS3 has more processing power but in real life application, the end result will be very similar. There is bottleneck in the PS3 design and Its hard to code for the cell processor, every developer has said so. I think you will be deceive for awhile. I predict that for the first 3 years of the console existance, you won't notice any differences between PS3 and X360.

I have nothing against PS3, I will buy 1 eventually. Im a gamer, I don't really care about platform. I don't have any allegiance to any company. PS3 won't be as next-gen as you think it will be. I have no doubt they will sell the first 2 or 3 millions PS3 without any problem. They will have a hard time convincing the casual to spend 500$ to get one.

They made some strange architectural choices. In theory, The PS3 has more processing power but in real life application, the end result will be very similar. There is bottleneck in the PS3 design and Its hard to code for the cell processor, every developer has said so. I think you will be deceive for awhile. I predict that for the first 3 years of the console existance, you won't notice any differences between PS3 and X360.

I have nothing against PS3, I will buy 1 eventually. Im a gamer, I don't really care about platform. I don't have any allegiance to any company. PS3 won't be as next-gen as you think it will be. I have no doubt they will sell the first 2 or 3 millions PS3 without any problem. They will have a hard time convincing the casual to spend 500$ to get one.


didn't they say the same thing about the ps2?? Games like Okami and God of War looks better then most xbox games which is sopposed be more powerful. I think everyone agrees (all the publications) that TGS ps3 games blew away the 360 games in terms of visual aspects. Also remember that as programmers learn the system 2nd and 3rd gen games will be much much better. I haven't seen a single 360 game that made me want to buy it. Saw the demos of Devil may cry and War hawk and F1, now thoese are truely next gen.

didn't they say the same thing about the ps2?? Games like Okami and God of War looks better then most xbox games which is sopposed be more powerful. I think everyone agrees (all the publications) that TGS ps3 games blew away the 360 games in terms of visual aspects. Also remember that as programmers learn the system 2nd and 3rd gen games will be much much better. I haven't seen a single 360 game that made me want to buy it. Saw the demos of Devil may cry and War hawk and F1, now thoese are truely next gen.

You've got to get your eyes check if you think a game like God Of War is better graphicly then Ninja Gaiden or Splinter Cell : Chaos Theory.

You've got to get your eyes check if you think a game like God Of War is better graphicly then Ninja Gaiden or Splinter Cell : Chaos Theory.

I agree Splinter Cell and NG look better, but I agree that God of War does look better than most, which is what he said, not all ;) I don't judge buy still shots, in motion is what matters to me, so one game could look better in a still shot but not as good in motion as well.

Last Gen Splinter Cell: CT, God of War, Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 1 & 2, GT4, Riddick, Black, some of gmes that I would say look better than most games on any console.

If the people that are having to fight price and spec on this thing are hard core HT enthusiasts, Sony is in trouble. That is not how you sell bulk of anything. They will sell out initially, but how many in the real general public will shell out the bucks for a "next-gen" system that 90% of homes can't come close to realizing what it can do. Sony must realize this, right? I'm lost on when home consoles started taking on the PC mentality of staying way ahead of current avg consumers. They'd sell more if they put in an HDTV tuner/DVR to get people interested. Sony's marketers are simply skipping a step.


And someone please tell me, because I'm not aware, will the PS3 simply play BluRay or will it be fully capable BluRay?

If the people that are having to fight price and spec on this thing are hard core HT enthusiasts, Sony is in trouble. That is not how you sell bulk of anything. They will sell out initially, but how many in the real general public will shell out the bucks for a "next-gen" system that 90% of homes can't come close to realizing what it can do. Sony must realize this, right? I'm lost on when home consoles started taking on the PC mentality of staying way ahead of current avg consumers. They'd sell more if they put in an HDTV tuner/DVR to get people interested. Sony's marketers are simply skipping a step.


And someone please tell me, because I'm not aware, will the PS3 simply play BluRay or will it be fully capable BluRay?

Fully capable. PS3 has HDMI 1.3 and will play lossless audio (unlike the xbox360 with HD-DVD add-on, which is $100 more for the somewhat comparable combo)

Fully capable. PS3 has HDMI 1.3 and will play lossless audio (unlike the xbox360 with HD-DVD add-on, which is $100 more for the somewhat comparable combo)

That is actually the best move that Sony did. The HDMI

I know one thing, a LOT of people have been waving one finger at Sony lately.

Coffee shoots out nose... Thanks That was a good one. LOL.

Cheers,

Richard

If the people that are having to fight price and spec on this thing are hard core HT enthusiasts, Sony is in trouble. That is not how you sell bulk of anything. They will sell out initially, but how many in the real general public will shell out the bucks for a "next-gen" system that 90% of homes can't come close to realizing what it can do. Well who knows? Maybe starting in January they will guarantee a PS3 with every 40" Bravia HDTV you buy- bundled price, of course. :D


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Well who knows? Maybe starting in January they will guarantee a PS3 with every 40" Bravia HDTV you buy- bundled price, of course. :D
fuad

I have heard rumors of Sony HDTV / PS3 Special bundle pricing. It's unclear whether they'd do that for the holiday season, or they'd wait until the initial demand for PS3's has been filled.

I'd bundle them early, that way, they'd be able to offset the loss in the PS3 with the profit from the HDTV.

- Jae

I have no doubt they will sell the first 2 or 3 millions PS3 without any problem. They will have a hard time convincing the casual to spend 500$ to get one.

They will sell out initially, but how many in the real general public will shell out the bucks for a "next-gen" system that 90% of homes can't come close to realizing what it can do. Sony must realize this, right? I'm lost on when home consoles started taking on the PC mentality of staying way ahead of current avg consumers. They'd sell more if they put in an HDTV tuner/DVR to get people interested. Sony's marketers are simply skipping a step.



Personally I think the casual gamer will not have a say in the first years of life of the PS3. Once the PS3 goes mainstream IMO we will see prices more in the ~$200-300 bucks range.

Remember how much the PS2 was at launch? I think it was around $300 ($350 adjusted for inflation.
The PS2 now retails aboout $130

They'd sell more if they put in an HDTV tuner/DVR to get people interested. Sony's marketers are simply skipping a step.



I agree with this one. Just put some DVR software and HDTV tuner and a bigger HD. I thought this gen would have it maybe the next one. Maybe none who knows.

adding dvr is gonna make a already expensive system more so. And sony haters are all gonna jump and say why put in a dvr? they already are complaining aobut 50gigs of drive space, HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, bluetooth etc etc.

All I know is, I was EXTREMELY skeptical of the iPod when it was first announced/demoed. I mean, it was quite a bit more expensive than the typical MP3 player...and the firewire and the larger hard drive capacities seemed like overkill.

Then I actually used one...and it was a whole different ball game. It worked on a different level than the competition due to the overall design, the complete experience w/ the iTunes store, and the shrewd choices of hardware components that Apple made.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

The reports coming back from Toyko have been quite enthusiastic overall...and they weren't evaluating the complete PS3 package that Sony's promising (online content, media serving, and, oh yeah, Blu-ray). Just the games. And several folks across the spectrum (from professional gaming reviewers to 'the common folk') have said that the 1080P and other choices Sony made when setting the bar w/ this system made an immediate impression.

the big difference in strategy between micrsoft and sony is obvious. microsoft thinks now, now. sony thinks about the future. that is in my opinion the whole difference.

just think about if microsoft waited a year. released the xbox360 with hd-dvd. i think they would have this december a much stronger game then now. because Hd-DVD is already doing well. with better hd-dvd sales then bluray. then xbox360 comes out with internal drive. i seriously think it would have been better.

soon ps3 comes out. it shows the big difference between 1080P and 720P in games and lets face it. 1080P is the future. all the hd-dvd and bluray are 1080p. and soon all tvs will be 1080p.

ign asked already to microsoft if the xbox360 has the hardware to push games in 1080p and microsoft said no comment.

as soon as the ps3 hit stores and everybody like me see how huge the graphical difference in games is between 1080p and 720p. it will help sales for 1080p tvs and ps3s a lot.

the only worry i have is. is that companies like activision, EA, capcom, Konami for example keep the quality back for the ps3. and we end up with xbox360 engines on the PS3. like what happened with ps2 game engines on the xbox 1.

They made some strange architectural choices. In theory, The PS3 has more processing power but in real life application, the end result will be very similar. There is bottleneck in the PS3 design and Its hard to code for the cell processor, every developer has said so. I think you will be deceive for awhile. I predict that for the first 3 years of the console existance, you won't notice any differences between PS3 and X360.

Not strange choices, but choices for the future. As developers gets more familiar with the architecture, more and more power will be extracted from the system. Of course, the same is true with the three cores of the 360. However, I think there is more power to harness in the PS3, so with every generation of games, the difference will be more evident. (Not counting titles from EA etc., where it is programmed to the lowest common denominator..)

However, I believe more of the difference will come from the DVD vs. BD. No matter what some still are saying, just over 8GB vs. possibly 50GB WILL make a difference in the games coming up. Examples are more high-res textures which means better graphics and more variety, better sound (7.1), more music and so forth.

So, my prediction is that you'll see differences from the get go, with it increasing as time goes by. :) (Again, not necessarily counting multi-platform titles.)

Not strange choices, but choices for the future. As developers gets more familiar with the architecture, more and more power will be extracted from the system. Of course, the same is true with the three cores of the 360. However, I think there is more power to harness in the PS3, so with every generation of games, the difference will be more evident. (Not counting titles from EA etc., where it is programmed to the lowest common denominator..)

However, I believe more of the difference will come from the DVD vs. BD. No matter what some still are saying, just over 8GB vs. possibly 50GB WILL make a difference in the games coming up. Examples are more high-res textures which means better graphics and more variety, better sound (7.1), more music and so forth.

So, my prediction is that you'll see differences from the get go, with it increasing as time goes by. :) (Again, not necessarily counting multi-platform titles.)

I disagree. I thnk you will be deceive when you see the launch title. It's all about the developer that code for you. Sony has David Jaffe and Polyphony Digital and Microsoft has Bungie and Team Ninja.

The Cell processor definitely allows for headroom on physics, composite rendering techniques, collision detection, and other aspectsof gaming that the XeCPU in 360 simply doesn't have. Graphics may remain similar throughout the gen, but as time goes on, the immersion experience is likely going to pull away on PS3.

This video is a window into the future of physical interaction in games, and it's just the start: http://www.us.playstation.com/Content/OGS/GMID-015/Site/

The Cell processor definitely allows for headroom on physics, composite rendering techniques, collision detection, and other aspectsof gaming that the XeCPU in 360 simply doesn't have. Graphics may remain similar throughout the gen, but as time goes on, the immersion experience is likely going to pull away on PS3.

This video is a window into the future of physical interaction in games, and it's just the start: http://www.us.playstation.com/Content/OGS/GMID-015/Site/

I know people that work in the industry and they all told me the same thing, working with the PS3 dev kit is very difficult. X360 has free AA and unified shader. stop believing in the Sony marketing BS. Gears of Wars is goign to prove that X360 is a very powerfull platform. I dont' think you will anything like it on PS3 for a couple of years.

I know people that work in the industry and they all told me the same thing, working with the PS3 dev kit is very difficult. X360 has free AA and unified shader. stop believing in the Sony marketing BS. Gears of Wars is goign to prove that X360 is a very powerfull platform. I dont' think you will anything like it on PS3 for a couple of years.

I know people in the industry as well - what's your point? I'm not here saying coding for the Cell is easy, I'm telling you that Cell has higher headroom on matters of gameplay, and you're bringing up the graphics of Gears of War. Apples and Oranges, and you're missing the point.

[deleted by mod]

TGS proved launch ps3 games are superior to the 360 graphics wise, give it up. Cell processor is a damn powerful piece of hardware like it or not.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=80833

IBM Sells First Cell Computer for $19,000
by GamePro Staff | 09/13/2006 | 11:47:26 AM PST subscribe to this feed | email news editor | print | digg this! IBM has started selling the first computer based on its multicore Cell processor, targeting organizations that run compute-intensive tasks like medical imaging or oil exploration.

The Cell chip was co-developed with Sony and Toshiba and originally designed for video-game consoles. IBM is offering its version of the chip, called the Cell Broadband Engine, in a blade system for customers who want high performance computing power combined with fast graphics performance.

Called the BladeCenter QS20, IBM's new system is also aimed at companies in the digital animation, aerospace, defense, communications and gas industries. Pricing for each QS20 blade starts at US$18,995, an IBM spokeswoman said.

The Cell processor consists of an IBM PowerPC processor core combined with eight specialized vector processors. IBM says the processor can deliver "supercomputer-like performance," although most existing applications will likely have to be rewritten to take full advantage of the Cell's architecture.

The company demonstrated a cluster of prototype Cell blade servers at the Cebit trade show in Germany this year. One of the applications on show allowed visitors to view a 3D model of a beating heart, and to turn it around and cut it into cross-sections using a mouse.

Test versions of the blade server have been running at various organizations, including the University of Manchester in the U.K, IBM said. The university said it picked the Cell system because it offers faster performance while occupying less space and using less power.

[deleted by mod]

TGS proved launch ps3 games are superior to the 360 graphics wise, give it up. Cell processor is a damn powerful piece of hardware like it or not.



All PS3 luanch games? Or did you have particular ones in mind, backed up by in game footage?

All PS3 luanch games? Or did you have particular ones in mind, backed up by in game footage?

I think the visuals right now are about equal - in fact maybe I'd give the edge to 360 from some of what I've seen. But there's more to the experience than that.

To quote a 1UP editor who was at TGS:

...The big question on my mind going into TGS was PS3. I was hoping to go to the show and see stuff that would demonstrate why I'd spend an extra $200 on a console...and I did. Virtua Fighter 5, White Knight Story, and especially MotorStorm (OMG) were well beyond anything I've seen on the 360. I don't know if you can really tell from the videos we posted, but MotorStorm is just so damn impressive. Every once in a while I'll see a game and just take a step back and think to myself how far the visuals of games have come. Titles like the original Virtua Fighter arcade game, the Daytona USA arcade game, Metal Gear Solid 2 -- with each of these, I distinctly remember having those feelings. MotorStorm was the same for me. The high-res graphics running at 60 FPS with all of those special effects (like mud on your windshield) -- it just looks real. Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to play Excite Truck after having seen this. It's like, on one hand I could be playing this phenomenal looking game that controls really well, or on the other I could play this "kids toy" with last-gen visuals and steering that actually never feels like I'm in complete control. Heck, if Sony adds tilt control to MotorStorm, there really will be no reason for me to play Excite Truck.

Maybe it was that Sony just had all of its games running on super sharp flatscreen TVs, but almost everything on PS3 just looked like it was more next-gen to me. It was kind of like the difference between, dare I say it, the PS2 and the Dreamcast. Which, as you know, wasn't that big a deal at first -- the Dreamcast had some fantastic looking second gen games -- but you could still tell the PS2 was a more powerful system (and to reiterate, I'm only talking hardware here -- I know the 360 is in a much different place software-wise). I think that's a rather fair comparison, to be honest -- similarly, as with the PS2, the PS3 is a platform that will distance itself even further once developers get more familiar with the hardware. Julian Eggebrecht of Factor 5 told me that they've only just scratched the surface of what they can do on PS3, and he fully expects all second gen PS3 games -- or certainly all third gen PS3 games -- to run in 1080p.

So yeah, there's a tangible difference in the visual quality between PS3 and the Xbox 360...

From: The Next-Gen Battle Begins to Take Shape (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7490433&publicUserId=4561231)

Now again, he's using the word 'visuals' there a little loosely IMO, but as someone who has played Motorstorm before, let me say that it's not the visuals as in graphics that's impressive, it's the visuals as in physics and destructible vehicles/environments. Which is pure CPU.

Hmm, interesting. The video I saw of Motorstorm did look quite cool. But the 360 has absolutely nothing to answer that game with at the moment. I'll be interesting to see how far Forza Motorsport 2 pushes the physics side of it too and how that compares.

Remember they've only scratched the surface of the 360 too! :)

PS3 hasn't even launched yet, things will get much better as well: :D

Devil May Cry looks amazing:
Fireboss gameplay video one of my favorites :D :
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13280&type=mov

HD Trailer:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13291&type=mov

HD video:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13419&type=mov


Formual GT1 gameplay video looked amazing:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13310&type=mov


Lair at 1080p (video isn't 1080p though) looks very impressive:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13309&type=mov

White Knight was a nice surprise, excellent visuals:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13330&type=mov

Genji: Days of the Blade looks pretty sweet as well:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13408&type=mov

Then there is :
Motorstorm
Resistance
Warhawk
Metal Gear 4
Virtua Fighter 5
etc
etc
etc

Hmmm... well, again, I really don't think visuals is the way to compare the two right now, because 360 really does have some great lookign games in the pipe. And though I am a fan of most of those games being trailered, none of them does the job of conveying in it's footage the (barely tapped) potential for Cell to effect gameplay like the Motorstorm videos do.

I have been anxiously waiting for the PS3 to come out and noticed on their website that Blu Ray will only output 1080P. Will my Panny AE-900U downconvert the signal and be compatible with this system? :confused:

Not ONLY 1080P. 1080P too. :) You can set the PS3 to output 720P and it will match your projector perfectly.

The possible output choices are 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p. That should have you covered. :D

Not ONLY 1080P. 1080P too. :) You can set the PS3 to output 720P and it will match your projector perfectly.



Well according to their site it lists an output of 1080P ONLY for HD Copy Protected Blu Ray discs. :mad:

go to us.playstation website, go to PS3, then specs, and read the small print on the bottom left.

Can I also use the HDMI output in conjuction with the optical (HDMI for video and optical for audio)? My audio receiver doesn't have HDMI ins and outs.

Maybe I should just go with the 360 with HD? :confused:

doesn't bother me, i only rent movies now. I have over 200 dvds and only watched them once or twice.

Well according to their site it lists an output of 1080P ONLY for HD Copy Protected Blu Ray discs. :mad:

go to us.playstation website, go to PS3, then specs, and read the small print on the bottom left.


I read that phrase and it's a funny misunderstanding :p . Probably a fault of the english language. :)

"Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard."

What it means is that for the PS3 to be able to output Blu-ray disc video at 1080p, you need to connect it through HDMI to a TV that supports HDCP.

I read that phrase and it's a funny misunderstanding :p . Probably a fault of the english language. :)

"Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard."

What it means is that for the PS3 to be able to output Blu-ray disc video at 1080p, you need to connect it through HDMI to a TV that supports HDCP.


It sounds to me like you will need a 1080P display to be able to watch Blu Ray discs? :confused:

Time for another upgrade??? :D

It sounds to me like you will need a 1080P display to be able to watch Blu Ray discs? :confused:It does not mean that at all. It is saying IF you want the full 1080p resolution, THEN you need an HDMI HDCP display. You can use component connections for less than the full resolution possible from blu-ray.

It sounds to me like you will need a 1080P display to be able to watch Blu Ray discs? :confused:

NOOOOO! ;) ;) ;)
The "only" refers to "using an HDMI cable". So "only using an HDMI cable" can you output 1080p. Try to read the phrase again keeping in mind this interpretation. :)

Can I also use the HDMI output in conjuction with the optical (HDMI for video and optical for audio)?

In all likehood, yes. We'll be 100% sure when the ps3 is out but there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do that.

Ridge Racer 7 looks better then Gears of Wars. why? simple. because the textures look much sharper then on the xbox360.

at the tokyo game show. about 80% of the games microsoft showed on tiny screens. i was wondering why does sony show their games on 46 inch plasma and microoft shows the very view titles they have on very bright and small tvs. The reason is because the visuals will look less on a bigger screen.

dont get me wrong though. gears of war is an excellent game. but it wont look better then rigde racer 7 as launch title. although i know most people dont want to hear that.

Here's some video footage of PS3's non-finalized GUI, which I think many of you should find interesting as it has an A/V focus at least towards the beginning.

And frankly it's just plain cool overall.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13649

[QUOTE=9158]NOOOOO! ;) ;) ;)
The "only" refers to "using an HDMI cable". So "only using an HDMI cable" can you output 1080p. Try to read the phrase again keeping in mind this interpretation. :)



LMAO, Do I feel stupid or what. :eek:

Which format will win the war? Opinions?

Here's some video footage of PS3's non-finalized GUI, which I think many of you should find interesting as it has an A/V focus at least towards the beginning.

And frankly it's just plain cool overall.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13649
xbdestroya, i want to thank you a freaking lot because that video nearly made me come! ;) ;) ;)
The video and audio output options are fantastic!

I frame-stopped to see all the menus and i saw many interesting things, including the fact that the ps3 will support custom resolutions on hdmi! This will make everybody who has a 1366x768 display (like me) and wants to bypass the internal scaler very happy.

Do you know how i can save the video? I tried right-clicking but no luck.

Also Jaret, it seems that what you asked before (using HDMI for video and optical for audio) can be done.

I know, it's awesome right?

Anyway to save it - when you're viewing the page on the right hand side of the player window there is a 'save media' button, and you simply click on whether you want it saved as Quicktime or Media Player and take it from there.

Here's some video footage of PS3's non-finalized GUI, which I think many of you should find interesting as it has an A/V focus at least towards the beginning.

And frankly it's just plain cool overall.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13649Thanks. I paused it where it had the screen for resolutions and the person controlling things could have gone at least one more click to the right. I'm hoping that options like 24p are on that next screen.

--Darin

I'm hoping that options like 24p are on that next screen.

I hope so, too.

Sony, if you're reading this, give us 1080p24 and 768p60 on HDMI.

Why 768p60?

Why 768p60?

Because a lot of people have 1366x768 TVs. 99% of all LCD TVs sold in the last year are that resolution (at least in Europe, where I live). Of course all these TVs can accept 720p, but why rely on cheap internal scalers when you can give them their native resolution?

Because a lot of people have 1366x768 TVs. 99% of all LCD TVs sold in the last year are that resolution (at least in Europe, where I live). Of course all these TVs can accept 720p, but why rely on cheap internal scalers when you can give them their native resolution? You can start the petition. 768 is also the native display of some widescreen monitors, depending on the size.

If it's not supported out of the box, Sony may do it with firmware updates.


fuad

Can I also use the HDMI output in conjuction with the optical (HDMI for video and optical for audio)? My audio receiver doesn't have HDMI ins and outs.Yes, you can use optical for audio and HDMI for video simultaneously. You can also use component out for video.
Maybe I should just go with the 360 with HD? :confused:If you want HD via 360, you're not going to get Blu-ray. Currently there are more studio exclusives on Blu-ray than there for HD-DVD (only Universal).


fuad

You can start the petition. 768 is also the native display of some widescreen monitors, depending on the size.

If it's not supported out of the box, Sony may do it with firmware updates.


fuad

Good idea.
So, who wants 1080p24 and 768p60 output for PS3?

Yes, you can use optical for audio and HDMI for video simultaneously. You can also use component out for video.
If you want HD via 360, you're not going to get Blu-ray. Currently there are more studio exclusives on Blu-ray than there for HD-DVD (only Universal).


fuad

Maybe I need to get both. :D

That clip showing all the features was freakin amazing. I need to go put down a deposit today. :)

Ridge Racer 7 looks better then Gears of Wars. why? simple. because the textures look much sharper then on the xbox360.

at the tokyo game show. about 80% of the games microsoft showed on tiny screens. i was wondering why does sony show their games on 46 inch plasma and microoft shows the very view titles they have on very bright and small tvs. The reason is because the visuals will look less on a bigger screen.

dont get me wrong though. gears of war is an excellent game. but it wont look better then rigde racer 7 as launch title. although i know most people dont want to hear that.

and the award for the fanboy post of the week goes too..d3code. That is gotta to be the most innacurate, fanboy post I have ever heard...ever. If you believe that, then you need a new pair of lens. Seriously.

and the award for the fanboy post of the week goes too..d3code. That is gotta to be the most innacurate, fanboy post I have ever heard...ever. If you believe that, then you need a new pair of lens. Seriously. So which part of it was innacurate? And to be more to the point, did you go to TGS 2006? Did you compare Ridge Racer on a 46" plasma against Gears of Wars on a similar setup?


fuad

So which part of it was innacurate? And to be more to the point, did you go to TGS 2006? Did you compare Ridge Racer on a 46" plasma against Gears of Wars on a similar setup?


fuad

How can you even consider comparing Ridge Racer to Gears of Wars ? Maybe if you would said GT HD, I could of said maybe you got a point but this is a ridiculous statement. All major gaming site, including IGN and Gamspot, have said it : Gears of Wars is like the E3 killzone 2 CG but in REAL-TIME.

Guys, take all this gaming talk over to the PS3 Gaming Forum.

symtex. you missunderstand the difference i try to explain. this must be because of my bad english.

so let me explain it more.

gears of war has more detail in the textures then ridge racer 7.

but in the end it is what the eye catches on screen.

ridge racer 7 has sharper looking textures, a far horizon, amazing use of color pallete.
and ofcourse ridge racer 7 is in 1080p.

also games like Lair and motorstorm surpasses Gears of war in every graphical detail. but those games wont be released this year.

i hope you understand now better.

also i have a xbox360 and for 100% i buy gears of war. but to say it is the best looking game out there. i dont agree. also gears what i saw has framerate issues and a very bad camera. i seriously think that some people will get motion sickness of it .

ps3=xbox360 + blu-ray. its funny to hear all the fanboy talk when the specs add up to roughly the same performance.

what I want to know is how will the ps3 process video. will it be all cell? I personaly hope so since invidia graphic chipsets have been known to not be very good for video playback. I'm no expert on the topic but that's what should be important here. assuming blu-ray gets some great movie software its live or die by the ps3. the stand alones won't move in quantity so what has sony shown on actual ps3 movie playback from actual software and not some hype demo disc or behind a glass case?

d3code- you just killed me by saying lair beats gow. I was honoring your opinion until then, that is ridiculous. lair/warhawk are easily the most underwhelming titles sony has shown besides legends.

Well who knows? Maybe starting in January they will guarantee a PS3 with every 40" Bravia HDTV you buy- bundled price, of course. :D
Doesn't Samsung make Sony's Bravia line? LOL ;)

Doesn't Samsung make Sony's Bravia line? LOL ;)

No, the manufacturing plants you are thinking of are in Korea, but they (it) are owned by a Sony/Samsung 50/50 joint venture by the name of S-LCD. This plant (soon another) is the one that produces the high-quality 7th gen LCD panels used in both Samsung and Sony's best TVs, and was actually an initiative conceptualized by Ken Kutaragi when he was still head of electronics before the restructuring post-Stringer. In fact, Sony owes Kutaragi much for the recent rebound/turnaround in their TV business - his contemporaries at the time were still very CRT minded. It was he who decided they needed to pursue LCD full throttle and decided to approach Samsung to share their patents to produce 'the best' there was.

Here's the press release info for the original 7th gen plant built in 2004: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200407/04-0715E/

And here's their recent agreement to expand the joint-venture to a new 8th gen plant as well:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200607/06-0714E/index.html

gattiman,

Lair kicks GOW all over the place. i mean serioulsly you dont know what you talking about.

comparing warhawk with lair is a huge insult ,graphics wise to Lair. i have seen and played warhaw at tokyo game show. and the graphics were so so. Lair however is amazing.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154113

if you click that link. you can check out a videostream where they show good footage of gears of war, lair and some other games in 1 stream. also you can hear 1 of creators of Lair talk about his game. and explain in technical terms about the game and how it could never ever have been created on a xbox360.

xbox360=ps3 is untrue. ps3 > xbox360 = true

that doesnt mean xbox360 is bad. not at all. there are some great games on it and i cant wait to play mass effect, gears of war, en bioshock. but i am aware that what sony is doing with the ps3, is going into true next generation. it is maybe hard to accept for people who are so xbox360 minded, but once you have seen and played lair or motorstorm you can understand.

you see i can accept the xbox360 for what it is. a very nice console for now. it give me the needs i have now. but after the TGS i understand, like many other people who were there the future is PS3.

why stay in the past when i can play the future? you only live once!

you do realize factor5 is exclusively sony so therefore they are going to hype the ps3 non-stop. so anything they have to say is really just hype. yes I've seen lair and the in-game is nothing like their tech demo or cinemas. its still an all right game but not on par with lost odyssey, blue dragon, kane and lynch, gow, or even resistance ( a ps3 title). ridge racer is also not impressive imo since rr games are all flash (no physics or realism) unlike gt or forza. rr's appeal is mainly in japan. I'm sorry but nothing I've seen from tgs has chaged my opinion but I'm open to change since I will own both (not that I expect any). as for your comments about the 360 not looking "sharp" the games look outstanding on my big sxrd lol. another point is I've read many reviews of played demos for gow and no one brings up any of what you have said even the slanted 1up.com loves gow.

I would also like to nip the whole devil may cry shows how great the ps3 is stuff in the bud since it runs on the same engine as lost world/dead rising which are both 360 games (excellent ones).

perhaps d3code would like to explain why assasins creed (ubisoft) so far looks better on the 360 than the ps3?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730582

FWIW

I just saw the Harrison-PS3-Menu-demo video today. I must say... It's FREAKY! :D On its capabilities alone it is worth more than US$600. I foresee how Sony can recoup their investments with the sale of Bluetooth keyboard/mouse set, the BD remote and the adapter for the PS2 memory card.

If Sony themselves will not issue a Rumble controller, other companies can do that. Force-feedback steering wheels and pedals can also be sold.

This thing is truly revolutionary.


fuad

WS- please explain why the ps3 is revolutionary? my cell phone can use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

I just saw the Harrison-PS3-Menu-demo video today. I must say... It's FREAKY! :D On its capabilities alone it is worth more than US$600. I foresee how Sony can recoup their investments with the sale of Bluetooth keyboard/mouse set, the BD remote and the adapter for the PS2 memory card.

If Sony themselves will not issue a Rumble controller, other companies can do that. Force-feedback steering wheels and pedals can also be sold.

This thing is truly revolutionary.


fuad

And first HD movie player with HDMI 1.3 as well as being the least expensive MSRP (tied with the much less functinal Toshiba HD-DVD).

WS- please explain why the ps3 is revolutionary? my cell phone can use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Why should I explain myself? My POV is a lightyears different from yours. My explanation will not in any way sway you from forming your own conclusions.

Watch the clip then decide for yourself. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13650&type=mov&pl=game) (This is the low-res clip)


fuad

And first HD movie player with HDMI 1.3 as well as being the least expensive MSRP (tied with the much less functinal Toshiba HD-DVD). The Toshiba does play HD-DVD well enough. But the PS3 is more fun! And looks much more high tech.

In the immortal words of Andy of Little Britain, "I want that one!" :D :D :D


fuad

The Toshiba does play HD-DVD well enough. But the PS3 is more fun! And looks much more high tech.

In the immortal words of Andy of Little Britain, "I want that one!" :D :D :D


fuad

Well if the Toshiba played PS3 games or Xbox360 games for the same price of the PS3 I would have bought one ;)

I was simply asking you to quantify your opinion. that's what a forum is for, discussion not just shouting your opinion while plugging your ears. the inferface looks cool but hardly revolutionary ( nifty is more like it ). its like the xbots saying the 360 dashboard is revolutionary (its not, but it is nifty).

we are not that far apart. I'm pro gaming (ps3, 360, wii) your pro ps3. we will both be buying one but one of us may be dissappointed with unrealistic expectations.

Some interesting things about the Cross bar video. Again, bear in mind what Harrison said that it is not the final product.

Under the video setup section, you can set the video output either for:
HDMI
Component or D-Terminal (Digital YPoPr, most probably D5, which is what XBox may do)
Composite or S-Video
AV Multi or SCART (the classic European version of component)

The TV modulation can either be Automatic or manual for HDMI.

Since the demo was using the HDMI connection, the TV resolution can be setup as:
480p
1080i
720p
1080p
Custom

Under Audio setup, you can use:
HDMI
Optical Digital
Audio Output Connector or AV Multi

Since the demo was using the HDMI connection, the PS3 can handle audio output as:
Dolby Digital 5.1 channel
DTS 5.1 ch
AAC
Linear PCM 2 ch. 44.1kHz (CD audio)
Linear PCM 2 ch. 88.6kHz
Linear PCM 2 ch. 48 kHz
Because of the HDMI connection, this setting was needed to determine if the TV or the AV receiver will be handling the audio choices. Nifty HDMI. There are more options than the ones listed above, however.


fuad

I was simply asking you to quantify your opinion. that's what a forum is for, discussion not just shouting your opinion while plugging your ears.
What forum do you think your in?
90% of the threads here are like that! LOL!

I was just at best Buy, they have a small offering of blue ray and hdvd, titles.
My question is will ps3 push the format to the fore front, will this be another betamax war. It looks to me that ps3 being a game system first would make blue ray #1 are there any plans to have a machine run hdvd and blue ray titles. I still have SACCD titles :rolleyes: and wont buy any format hd movies unless I get a PS3. or the dust settles

the funny thing is SACD is probably the thing I'm most excited for in the ps3 at launch. I will probably buy a few blu-ray titles, resistance, and about 20 sacd's lol. always meant to get sacd bu couldn't/didn't want to spend the money on a stand alone.

morepower- why worry about the hd war? hd-dvd isn't going anywhere de to its early success and bd will most likely pick up the pace with the ps3. ask yourself this. if there was no format war and I bought a gen1 player wouldn't I be buying a new player in a year or two anyways? that's wht decided it for me. who cares if in three years everything is bd or hd-dvd, that's 3 years from now.

I was just at best Buy, they have a small offering of blue ray and hdvd, titles.
My question is will ps3 push the format to the fore front, will this be another betamax war. It looks to me that ps3 being a game system first would make blue ray #1 are there any plans to have a machine run hdvd and blue ray titles. I still have SACCD titles :rolleyes: and wont buy any format hd movies unless I get a PS3. or the dust settles First of all, you have a lot of questions. :cool:

Yes, PS3 will push the format to the forefront. The reason is because the PS3 had already been put through the wringer by most gaming media for being late to the game and for reducing its spec (HDMI, no HDMI, then HDMI again - though the dual HDMI thing is still not there) and its high price. SCE will definitely push all the capabilities of the PS3, including BD playback.

Could be another VHS vs Betamax but in reverse. This time Sony is in the camp where there are a lot more CE companies and more studio support.

No hybrid HD players for now.


fuad

First of all, you have a lot of questions. :cool:

Yes, PS3 will push the format to the forefront. The reason is because the PS3 had already been put through the wringer by most gaming media for being late to the game and for reducing its spec (HDMI, no HDMI, then HDMI again - though the dual HDMI thing is still not there) and its high price. SCE will definitely push all the capabilities of the PS3, including BD playback.

Could be another VHS vs Betamax but in reverse. This time Sony is in the camp where there are a lot more CE companies and more studio support.

No hybrid HD players for now.


fuad


You may call it a high price, with bluray, hdmi 1.3, and 7.1 audio I call it a bargain.

the price is a bargain IF your going to use all the features. if your just gaming, the price is a shaft imo.

gatti-man,

cross platform games will always suffer the better consoles. if ubisoft wants it would kick the xbox360 all the way around. have you seen for example teh x06 demo that jane played. how bad the camaera was. when the thief rides near the castle a charachter pulls up out of nowehere. all these kind of errors i see in a lot of xbox360 games. framerate issues like moto GP. framerate issues GOW. not fluid camera behind the charchter. all games even in its very early on the ps3 suffer none of these problems. monster kingdom as you could see also in the link i gave you has some of the most amazing fluid cameera ever. even the people in that link talk about how fluid it is.

if LAIR can do 60 frames a second in 1080P / 60 frames a second has like 3000 soldiers on a brigde. dragons flying around. without any problem. then why do games like assasins creed, GOW have camera issues? is it because of bugs still in the program or is it that we are at the end of the xbox360 capability?

also games like sonic on the ps3 are one of the worst looking games on the ps3. why? because crossplatforming. crossplatforming is a deadstroke to the capabilites for the ps3. remeber when xbox came out and everyone was porting over games from ps2 to xbox. well that is what happens with games like assasins creed, sonic, tony hawk 8. they are just xbox360 emulations on ps3 hardware. with only using 10% of the ps3 power. and it sucks. specially if you see how good games look that are specially created for the ps3.

1 thing your right though. i shouldnt attack you. but it is pretty hard to argue against someone who hasnt played a ps3 at all. and just make his assumptions from a video, because watching a video or watching it live or playing it is a world of difference.

gatti-man,

cross platform games will always suffer the better consoles. if ubisoft wants it would kick the xbox360 all the way around. have you seen for example teh x06 demo that jane played. how bad the camaera was. when the thief rides near the castle a charachter pulls up out of nowehere. all these kind of errors i see in a lot of xbox360 games. framerate issues like moto GP. framerate issues GOW. not fluid camera behind the charchter. all games even in its very early on the ps3 suffer none of these problems. monster kingdom as you could see also in the link i gave you has some of the most amazing fluid cameera ever. even the people in that link talk about how fluid it is.

if LAIR can do 60 frames a second in 1080P / 60 frames a second has like 3000 soldiers on a brigde. dragons flying around. without any problem. then why do games like assasins creed, GOW have camera issues? is it because of bugs still in the program or is it that we are at the end of the xbox360 capability?

also games like sonic on the ps3 are one of the worst looking games on the ps3. why? because crossplatforming. crossplatforming is a deadstroke to the capabilites for the ps3. remeber when xbox came out and everyone was porting over games from ps2 to xbox. well that is what happens with games like assasins creed, sonic, tony hawk 8. they are just xbox360 emulations on ps3 hardware. with only using 10% of the ps3 power. and it sucks. specially if you see how good games look that are specially created for the ps3.

1 thing your right though. i shouldnt attack you. but it is pretty hard to argue against someone who hasnt played a ps3 at all. and just make his assumptions from a video, because watching a video or watching it live or playing it is a world of difference.

Its difficult to believe you because you have a very biased opinions. I though Assasin Creed demo was fantastic. Don't forget that this game will be cross platform and it's still in developement. Only 10% of Ps3 power ? LOL ! you are living in a dreamworld...

D3code, seriously, I can see your enjoyment for the Playstation platform and I'm alright with that but you make up number and statement that makes no sense. Framerate issue are not hardware related but cause by shorter development cycle and bad optimization. I bet there is going to be quite a few game at launch that will suffer with framerate problem. It's normal because we are at the beginning of the hardware cycle.

Now can we go back to PS3 as a blu-ray player. I think it will be a average player at best. Cinephiles with no be please with the overall output of the console and will choose a stand-alone player. J6P, will probably won't care. I don't see the blu-ray format dying anytime soon. Sony will continu aggressively pushing the platform regardless of HD DVD success for the duration of the hardware cycle.

i dont say assains creed aint a bad game. not at all. but i dont understand if you show something then show it as good as possible. chachters suddenly popping up the screen, a bad camera behind the horse rising. i think most people just focus on what they see on screen. i dont. i value it as a complete package. ofcourse i understand the game aint final, but it doesnt bode well. maybe other people are much more forgiven then me. but bad camera just ruins a game for me.

well honest yeah i think it only uses 10% - 20% of the ps3. why. well lair is the most complex engine i have seen so far. and the creator says in the end it uses 50% of the ps3. so at the moment i assume it uses 25% till 40% of the power. now assasins creed is 720p 30 frames a second not even 1080p looks 50% less then lair. so yeah i assume that assasins creed is pretty much using 10% - 20% of the ps3 its capabilites. it is also one of the first games as well.

also if framerate issues are the problem cause by shorter development and bad optimilisation then delay the game until it is fixed! obvlion was a good example of a game that got delayed. and lucky they did.

for me games like assains creed, sonic, tony hawk, resitance,war hawk, using only the bottom of the ps3 power.

then there is lost planet on xbox360 and devil may cry on the ps3 that are better looking then that.

then their is gears of war on xbox360 that looks even better. and ridge racer 7

then their is lair and motorstorm which are looking the best so far of all the games combined.

i dont say assains creed aint a bad game. not at all. but i dont understand if you show something then show it as good as possible. chachters suddenly popping up the screen, a bad camera behind the horse rising. i think most people just focus on what they see on screen. i dont. i value it as a complete package. ofcourse i understand the game aint final, but it doesnt bode well. maybe other people are much more forgiven then me. but bad camera just ruins a game for me.

well honest yeah i think it only uses 10% - 20% of the ps3. why. well lair is the most complex engine i have seen so far. and the creator says in the end it uses 50% of the ps3. so at the moment i assume it uses 25% till 40% of the power. now assasins creed is 720p 30 frames a second not even 1080p looks 50% less then lair. so yeah i assume that assasins creed is pretty much using 10% - 20% of the ps3 its capabilites. it is also one of the first games as well.

also if framerate issues are the problem cause by shorter development and bad optimilisation then delay the game until it is fixed! obvlion was a good example of a game that got delayed. and lucky they did.

for me games like assains creed, sonic, tony hawk, resitance,war hawk, using only the bottom of the ps3 power.

then there is lost planet on xbox360 and devil may cry on the ps3 that are better looking then that.

then their is gears of war on xbox360 that looks even better. and ridge racer 7

then their is lair and motorstorm which are looking the best so far of all the games combined.

Your number are totally wrong and doesn't make any sense whatsoever and BTW Mass Effect and Bioshock > lair and motorstorm.

mass effect and bioschock > lair and motorstorm = comedy quote of the day.

how can you come up with an argument like that. so far mass effect and bioschok havent shown anything that comes even remotely close to gears of war. let alone lair and motorstorm. accept that the charchters in mass effect move very slowly.

mass effect and bioschock > lair and motorstorm = comedy quote of the day.

how can you come up with an argument like that. so far mass effect and bioschok havent shown anything that comes even remotely close to gears of war. let alone lair and motorstorm. accept that the charchters in mass effect move very slowly.

This is supposed to be a blu-ray related thread. I don't mind debating with you on games but I think it's not the approriate forums. I 100% disagree with everything you have posted. END OF DISCUSSION.

Back to blu-ray

d3-its pretty hard to argue with someone who says crossplatform games only use 10% of the ps3's power lol. I'm done with game arguing.

Now can we go back to PS3 as a blu-ray player. I think it will be a average player at best. Cinephiles with no be please with the overall output of the console and will choose a stand-alone player. J6P, will probably won't care. I don't see the blu-ray format dying anytime soon. Sony will continu aggressively pushing the platform regardless of HD DVD success for the duration of the hardware cycle.


How do you know it will be an average player and that cinephiles will not be pleased?

Found this from the forum.Blu-Ray.com. The folks from PSM3Mag.com got a taste of the PS3. (http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_power_up_pics_and)

This is a video clip that shows you the startup of the machine. (http://www.psm3mag.com/resources/psm3/ps3startup.mov)

Several choice quotes.Some more details of the brute in action:
1) It's quiet like a sleeping baby. A barely audible hum. With the TV on you simply can't hear it at all.
2) It's heavy like a planet. No, really. It's impossible to pick up with one hand.
3) It's shiny like a mirror. In fact, it's impossible to take a photograph of it without the flash spanging every picture into a starburst mess. And therefore it's massively prone to fingerprintage too, with the tiny amount of dust in the office magically attaching itself to its surface in seconds.
4) The PS3 joypad is very light and the tilt system is very responsive. We like.
5) The start up is amazingly fast. And game load times were faster than expected. In fact, PS3 does both at about the same speed of PSP. ie, Long load times due to the massive Blu-ray disc? Nope. Simply not an issue.
6) Andy's fingers kept sliding off the shoulder buttons. But that's because his fingers are slippery.

And several more.Things to note:
1) The speed the machine sucks the disc in. Wow!
2) The PS3 start up sound - it's like an orchestra tuning up. Cool.
3) The similarity between the PS3 interface and the PSP interface.
4) Watch out for the first recorded lifting of the PS3's flaps.
5) Listen out for the fact that Sony don't officially have a name for the 'PS' button in the middle yet.
6) And check out those flashing blue and green lights. Groovy.


fuad

Found this from the forum.Blu-Ray.com. The folks from PSM3Mag.com got a taste of the PS3. (http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_power_up_pics_and)

This is a video clip that shows you the startup of the machine. (http://www.psm3mag.com/resources/psm3/ps3startup.mov)

A few quotes.

And one more.


fuad

Sweet :D I can't wait for Motorstorm, gorgeous. Love the title screen intro as well, like a souped up THX intro.

I hadn't seen any pics of this area of Resistance either

http://www.psm3mag.com/resources/psm3/psm6.JPG

Kaz Hirai video interview: http://games.kikizo.com/features/ps3_kazhirai_vidiv_oct06.asp

"5) The start up is amazingly fast. And game load times were faster than expected. In fact, PS3 does both at about the same speed of PSP. ie, Long load times due to the massive Blu-ray disc? Nope. Simply not an issue."I would be a little careful about assuming too much during a demo for this area, depending on how it was done. Seems like they could preload some things onto the hard drive and make load times seem quicker, when they are really only for the 2nd time you play the game. I'm not saying this is what was done, but just that we should consider that they might not be completely accurate toward what will ship.

--Darin

True. But we know they will use the harddrive to accelerate load times, so the first load will probably be slower always, then quicker ones from there. So it is OK. :)

Man, it REALLY sucked that disc in fast.

It is getting closer, it is getting closer. :D

the fact that the ps3 is supposedly quiet is a GIANT selling point to me. my 360 is about as quiet as a jet engine! seriously way too loud even for just gaming.

God I LOVED reading this thread!

Never have I laughed so much! Never has SO MUCH, been made of SO LITTLE!!!!

Take it from a developer, the differences between the PS3 and the XBox 360 are minimal and more subject to other issues than the ones being discussed here.

Is the PS3 a terrific machine? Hell Yes!!!

Does it matter how well it can render a scene - HELL NO!!!

First, there are MANY MORE important factors that go into a game than graphics. The XBox can do 1080p just as well as the PS3. For those who have called it simply "upscaling" 720p - well, you simply do not understand 3D graphics. Not at all.

Sony is a HYPE MACHINE! Always has been. Do I expect them to have some terrific games - SURE! Do I expect the XBox 360 to have some terrific games - SURE!

However, from a developer's point of view, the Sony tools are CRAP! Most developers first have to create their own. The XBox 360 tools are TERRIFIC and very complete - always have been. It matters not a whit how much power is in the PS3 if no one can use it, or if it is irrelevant to the game you are writing.

One of the most successful games EVER!!! Still to this day is TETRIS. I think either system can do a credible job of creating this game.

Now as to the HD-DVD add-on vs. the PS3. There is no question that the attach rate for the HD-DVD add-on will be MUCH MUCH higher for HD films than the PS3. Why? Well, you are only buying the HD-DVD add-on if you want to play movies! This gives Microsoft a tremendous marketing advantage.

Also, remember that HD sets are still the MINORITY in the US and NA. For the vast majority of game players (in this round of the console wars) the added cost/benefit of the PS3 and its 1080p support is going to be truly lost.

Now, I don't care a whit as to which console comes out on top (my guess, given what I've said, is it is going to be the Wii anyway). However, please stop the posturing and misinformation about what is important here. Until the player has shipped, been out a year, and we see what the developers can REALLY do with it, it is only nonsense.

Well I can't wait till some one runs some Blu Ray movies through this thing. I really wont to know how good of a player it is.

If it turns out a decent player player I may just consider getting one. Yes, getting one as a Blu Ray player, WTF! :) Consoles playing movies as always been akin to cross-dressing, underneath it's just not the real deal. But if the PS3 can be the real deal, oh how it would warp my fragile little mind!

But it might be bad for Sony 'cause imagine how many people would buy a PS3 and not buy any games. Oh that's right, Sony would want to get Blu Ray into peoples homes at any cost!

I'm actually amazed it is a quiet machine and is leading me to believe that Sony want people to use it as a primary movie player. It's the first step in the right direction.

Obviously the attach rate for the HD-DVD add-on, on average, is going to be much higher than for the PS3 - for the reasons you stated.

But in absolute terms, the PS3 is still going to have much more industry impact in terms of format-attach than will the HD-DVD add-on, simply due to the volumes involved. And, as indicated by the existence of this thread alone, there are many out there who view the BD playback aspect of the PS3 as of key importance in their decision to buy. From an aesthetics vantage alone, the 360+HD-DVD add-on comes off as unwieldy and unattractive.

God I LOVED reading this thread!

Never have I laughed so much! Never has SO MUCH, been made of SO LITTLE!!!!

Take it from a developer, the differences between the PS3 and the XBox 360 are minimal and more subject to other issues than the ones being discussed here.

Is the PS3 a terrific machine? Hell Yes!!!

Does it matter how well it can render a scene - HELL NO!!!

First, there are MANY MORE important factors that go into a game than graphics. The XBox can do 1080p just as well as the PS3. For those who have called it simply "upscaling" 720p - well, you simply do not understand 3D graphics. Not at all.

Sony is a HYPE MACHINE! Always has been. Do I expect them to have some terrific games - SURE! Do I expect the XBox 360 to have some terrific games - SURE!

However, from a developer's point of view, the Sony tools are CRAP! Most developers first have to create their own. The XBox 360 tools are TERRIFIC and very complete - always have been. It matters not a whit how much power is in the PS3 if no one can use it, or if it is irrelevant to the game you are writing.

One of the most successful games EVER!!! Still to this day is TETRIS. I think either system can do a credible job of creating this game.

Now as to the HD-DVD add-on vs. the PS3. There is no question that the attach rate for the HD-DVD add-on will be MUCH MUCH higher for HD films than the PS3. Why? Well, you are only buying the HD-DVD add-on if you want to play movies! This gives Microsoft a tremendous marketing advantage.

Also, remember that HD sets are still the MINORITY in the US and NA. For the vast majority of game players (in this round of the console wars) the added cost/benefit of the PS3 and its 1080p support is going to be truly lost.

Now, I don't care a whit as to which console comes out on top (my guess, given what I've said, is it is going to be the Wii anyway). However, please stop the posturing and misinformation about what is important here. Until the player has shipped, been out a year, and we see what the developers can REALLY do with it, it is only nonsense.

finally someone who makes senses. In other news, the PS3 and his online network is so incredible that Marvel Ultimate Alliance, The ultimake geek game, doesn't have headset support for PS3.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/736/736878p3.html

Quote from IGN :
"Unfortunately for PS3 owners, there is no headset support for this game. Feel free to give Sony the stink eye if you don't like it."

This is exactly what I mean, Console are only as good as the software you put on it. PS3 might be more powerfull in theory but it's how your harness that power that makes the differences. I think the first or so of the console life is going to be rocky for PS3 and their online support. It took 4 years for microsoft to refine and etasblish Xbox live as a steady platform.

as for your tools comments supposedly factor 5 got the bad end of that but tha development isn't as bad as the ps2 was. my friends are saying its hell but not like the pit of despair the ps2 was. they view the power of systems as equal due to the rsx being a stinker and the 360 having that extra 10mb of super high bandwidth AA dedicated memory. the cell is better than the 360 cpu though.

!

!!!!!
!!!

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!!!

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Sorry man.. i just had to do it :-)

Sony Shares Fall on PlayStation Concerns (http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1006/365999.html)

...
PlayStation 3 units on display at the Tokyo Game Show about 10 days ago operated erratically and had to be repeatedly reset, according to a report released Monday by Macquarie Equities analyst David Gibson in Tokyo.

"While the reason for this is unknown, we suspect it may be due to overheating as a result of enclosing the units and the high temperatures at the venue," Gibson wrote. "We are concerned that such a problem has occurred so close to full production and is clearly negative news for the company."
...
About 200 PlayStation 3 units were clustered together in close proximity and housed in kiosks that concentrated the heat generated by their processors and provided poor ventilation, Kato said. Overheating under such circumstances is a common affliction at trade shows, afflicting not just Sony products but those of its competitors, she said.

"It's not a problem with the PlayStation 3 unit itself," Kato said. "For a normal player at home, there shouldn't be any problem."
...

Sony Shares Fall on PlayStation Concerns (http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1006/365999.html)

Considering that every gaming website worth it´s salt was at the event, including the ones that does everything they can to post ******** about the PS3 and only ONE could post a story about a PS3 that supposedly overheated i find that article.. reaching.

Afaik, the PS3 weren´t out in the open but hidden away in some kiosk like display cases.

Peters thank you very much for sharing the info.

i am no engineer at all. i just share my info on what i see or play. but your talking about The XBox 360 tools are TERRIFIC and very complete. what kind of tools are we talking about? development tools? engine production tools? tools to know when your game hit framerate issues?

you see if those tools are so good. then why is that we see so much in final products for xbox360 framerate issues, camera problems etc? aint this tool related? or is that simply laziness from the developer?

Considering that every gaming website worth it´s salt was at the event, including the ones that does everything they can to post ******** about the PS3 and only ONE could post a story about a PS3 that supposedly overheated i find that article.. reaching.It's written by the AP, carried in Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8KH3V2O0.htm), and should be making the rounds today...

PS3 REMOTE. ON SALE DECEMBER 7 FOR AROUND 30$

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20061003/sce1.jpg

BlueTooth? Nice! I'll take one.

It's written by the AP, carried in Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8KH3V2O0.htm), and should be making the rounds today...

Excellent, i would really like a link/scan something from the "report"

PS3 REMOTE. ON SALE DECEMBER 7 FOR AROUND 30$

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20061003/sce1.jpg

Some more pics from CEATEC

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4638/ps3remoteandconzn2.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3523/droolgf2.jpg

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/7573/bdkt7.jpg

Also tons of info on BD Player/Burners!

Impress Watch (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20061003/ceatec06.htm)

sounds like possible heat issues just like the xbox360. I think I will wait till next year to get a ps3.

God I LOVED reading this thread!

Never have I laughed so much! Never has SO MUCH, been made of SO LITTLE!!!!

You should get out more. Watch a funny movie, sitcom or something. To each his own, I guess. ;)

Take it from a developer, the differences between the PS3 and the XBox 360 are minimal and more subject to other issues than the ones being discussed here.

So you are a PS3 and a 360 developer? Cool! Which company? What title?

The XBox can do 1080p just as well as the PS3. For those who have called it simply "upscaling" 720p - well, you simply do not understand 3D graphics. Not at all.


So why is MS saying 720P games only? Why is upscaling from 720P to 1080P misunderstanding something? If the game is rendered in 720P, why can't the result then be scaled to 1080P? Just like it would be if you go through a Lumagen og DVDO from 720p to 1080p? What does that have to do with 3D graphics?

Sony is a HYPE MACHINE! Always has been.

Every company hypes their stuff. Sony knows what they are doing. What happened when the PS was released? When the PS2 was released? Are you saying they reign SUPREME in sales because of hype? You sir, in that case, are wrong.

Do I expect them to have some terrific games - SURE! Do I expect the XBox 360 to have some terrific games - SURE!

Agreed! :)

However, from a developer's point of view, the Sony tools are CRAP! Most developers first have to create their own. The XBox 360 tools are TERRIFIC and very complete - always have been. It matters not a whit how much power is in the PS3 if no one can use it, or if it is irrelevant to the game you are writing.

Crap? Then it is AMAZING to me how good the titles look already. Of course they are not crap. Challengig, for sure, but not crap. As always, getting used to a whole new HW platfrom will take time. I guess the lesser gifted developers would call the tools crap, because they essentially want as much as possible ready-made for them. The tools are a great improvement from the PS2 era, and look what happened to the PS2.

One of the most successful games EVER!!! Still to this day is TETRIS. I think either system can do a credible job of creating this game.

!!! You point is? Does most successful game equal best game? It is about pushing the envelope, trying not to limit the programmer in any way. Sure, it will take serious effort, but will be worth it. As mentioned, looking at some of the 1- gen titles, I'm giddy thinking about what's coming down the pipeline. Can't wait to lay my fingers on WipEout Extreme, or whatever it will be called. (They MUST be working on it as we speak, although we've heard nothing yet.)

Now as to the HD-DVD add-on vs. the PS3. There is no question that the attach rate for the HD-DVD add-on will be MUCH MUCH higher for HD films than the PS3. Why? Well, you are only buying the HD-DVD add-on if you want to play movies! This gives Microsoft a tremendous marketing advantage.

Again, what is your point? Tremendous marketing advantage? In what way? You have to buy another box to must fit somewhere? You won't get HDMI? You can't use it for more storage in games? Sure, the HD DVD attach rate will be higher than the PS3, but how does that give MS a marketing advantage?

Also, remember that HD sets are still the MINORITY in the US and NA. For the vast majority of game players (in this round of the console wars) the added cost/benefit of the PS3 and its 1080p support is going to be truly lost.

Today, yes! But to even bring up such a point, well... Are Sony designing the PS3 for today only? Of course, not. Only idiots would. Thats why there is 1080P support, HDMI, Blu-ray for games etc. 3-4 years from now 1080P will be much more prevalent, 720P even more. ALL using HDMI and more than 9GB on disc.

Now, I don't care a whit as to which console comes out on top (my guess, given what I've said, is it is going to be the Wii anyway). However, please stop the posturing and misinformation about what is important here. Until the player has shipped, been out a year, and we see what the developers can REALLY do with it, it is only nonsense.

Hey, we totally agree! Wii will reign on top, I know I'm getting it. So the question becomes, which system will you buy in addition to the Wii. The proof is in the pudding.

A few weeks from now we can compare various aspects of 2/3. gen titles on the Xbox360 and 1. gen titles on the PS3. By default, some would claim, Xbox titles should look better. (Claimed better development tools, developers comfortable with the hardware etc.) We'll see. Interesting times ahead! :)

Now, if PSM3 could start testing Blu-ray movie playback I would be a happy camper. That is what matters, in this thread at least.

I know someone who is beta testing the PS3 and they have stated that the PS3, while a powerful machine, is rife with issues. Firmware problems have been the number one concern, as is overheating. He has tested 3 separate machines, and they all have exhibited the same behavior.

On a positive note, he has said that the picture detail of BD movies is very good. I know he is not an HT enthusiast and I'm not even sure if he has an HD capable set, but he still has possession of the PS3 and is very interested of the possibility of bringing it over to demo it on my 50" plasma.

I sure hope he is willing to do so.... :D :cool:

So why is MS saying 720P games only? Why is upscaling from 720P to 1080P misunderstanding something? If the game is rendered in 720P, why can't the result then be scaled to 1080P? Just like it would be if you go through a Lumagen og DVDO from 720p to 1080p? What does that have to do with 3D graphics? Okay slightly off topic question related to this.

MS has said that the 360 can upscale their games to 1080p. As far as my brain can wrap around it, only games that uses minimal prerendered textures throughout the game can do this to great effect. Other games with lots of textures won't. Am I correct?

Consider the following: 9GB of data on a 360 game disc, which includes game engine, data levels, character datas and sound. If games are designed to be played at 720p, the data allocation for the characters with textures are designed to fit that 9GB of space. If the 720p games are blown up to 1080p, the textures (but not the in-game graphic rendering) would look soft won't it?


fuad

Sony has released a picture of its first ADD-ON!

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20061003/sce2.jpg

For those who are not familiar with the Playstation console, that's a USB memory card reader so that PS and PS2 gamers can use the PS3 to play their games - upconverted!

On another news, I could see a future ADD-ON and that is a Sony HD DVR BD-burner tuner unit. Connected to the console via USB, it works like any other DVR. The size might be different for each region though. US has the ATSC tuner and Cablecard. Japan has its own three different systems.


fuad

nilsp-good post but you do realize in 4 years the xbox720 will either be out or on the horizon. MS has obviously decided to hardware cycle sony to death. sony wants the ps3 to last 8 years, the 720 should come out in the middle of its life cycle cutting off sony's profitability time table. don't know If it will work but that's the plan imo.

nilsp-good post but you do realize in 4 years the xbox720 will either be out or on the horizon. MS has obviously decided to hardware cycle sony to death. sony wants the ps3 to last 8 years, the 720 should come out in the middle of its life cycle cutting off sony's profitability time table. don't know If it will work but that's the plan imo.


I'm just curious how MS can make money with such a short life cycle on their consoles.. Didn't they lose like 3+ billion on the xbox overall?

fuad- do you have a gaming pc? there are games that support a res double that of 1080p on the pc and they are around 4gb. bd isn't needed for gaming.

fuad- do you have a gaming pc? there are games that support a res double that of 1080p on the pc and they are around 4gb. bd isn't needed for gaming.It's not about the resolution. It's about the textures in the game at that resolution.

Take for example The Blair Witch Project. It's shot on video and NTSC video at that. For the theatrical version, they transfered it to film. I've not seen it but I'm SURE it looks crappy compared to a film shot originally on 35mm.

The same applies here. If the game designers are data constrained by the 9GB capacity and that the game was intended to be played at 720p only, upconverting the textures for the game would not have the same effect as playing it at its intended resolution.

For some games with no textures or minimal textures, I think they would look fine.


fuad

It's not about the resolution. It's about the textures in the game at that resolution.

Take for example The Blair Witch Project. It's shot on video and NTSC video at that. For the theatrical version, they transfered it to film. I've not seen it but I'm SURE it looks crappy compared to a film shot originally on 35mm.

The same applies here. If the game designers are data constrained by the 9GB capacity and that the game was intended to be played at 720p only, upconverting the textures for the game would not have the same effect as playing it at its intended resolution.

For some games with no textures or minimal textures, I think they would look fine.


fuad

Im tired of all the 1080p BS. Only first party and 2nd party title will probably have 1080p native resolutions. Do you know the penetration of 1080p set on the market ? Hell, I wouldn't change my 1080i TV just for a console. I think Sony's fan are blowing the 1080p advantage like it's the end of the world.

MS is smart. Most HDTV owner are at 720p/768p/1080i. We all know that 1080p movie playback as almost no significant advantage over 1080i. So why is 1080p so damn important ? I don't get it.

I am a gamer, I care about Intellectual property. I coudn't care less about which platform it is on. Due to Sony and MS track record of console lauch, I won't go near a PS3 for the first 2millions units. I bet the console will be riddle with firmware issue, BD audio/video skipping and HDMI handsake error. It's the growing pain of new technology.

Im tired of all the 1080p BS. Only first party and 2nd party title will probably have 1080p native resolutions.


Not true, there are 3rd party games that are 1080p. Ridge Racer 7 (1080p 60fps), Virtua Tennis 3, NBA 07, etc.

nilsp-good post but you do realize in 4 years the xbox720 will either be out or on the horizon. MS has obviously decided to hardware cycle sony to death.If Microsoft releases their game consoles to closely together they might kill off their game consoles in the process. I remember several games were cancelled for the Xbox simply because Microsoft decided to release the Xbox 360 only 4 years after the Xbox. That is a bit of a tight console cycle and personally I think the Xbox 360 better last longer than the Xbox did or Microsoft is going to have problems with developer support in the future.


sony wants the ps3 to last 8 years,Actually what Sony said is they wanted it to be a viable game console for 10 years, which based on the software sales history of the PS1 and PS2 is quite possible. That does not mean they won't release another game console in 5 to 7 years.


Im tired of all the 1080p BS.Symtex, just because you don't own a 1080p display doesn't mean it is BS and that is a pretty illogical viewpoint. Their are a lot of people who don't own any type of HDTV and I doubt you would like it if they said they were tired of all the 720p BS from Microsoft.


So why is 1080p so damn important ?Just because there are not that many 1080p display owners today does not mean their will not be a lot in the upcoming years. For a game console that lasts years I think it makes sense to think about the future market as well as the present market.

If Microsoft releases their consoles to closely together they might kill of their game consoles in the process. I remember several games were cancelled for the Xbox simply because Microsoft decided to release the Xbox 360 only 4 years after the Xbox. That is a bit of a tight console cycle and personally I think the Xbox 360 better last longer than the Xbox did or Microsoft is going to have problems with developer support in the future.


Exactly. What will the Xbox360 owner who buys his 360 in 2-3 years say when the year after something better comes out? He might never shop MS again.

The only thing I see happening is adding the HD DVD drive internally, maybe increase the HD size and adding HDMI. Anything to do with graphics/memory/performance can't be touched, or A LOT of 360 owners will be fuming... IMHO, of course, YMMV.

I know someone who is beta testing the PS3 and they have stated that the PS3, while a powerful machine, is rife with issues. Firmware problems have been the number one concern, as is overheating. He has tested 3 separate machines, and they all have exhibited the same behavior.

I'm not worried about firmware issues. Those will be updated. Slightly more concerned about the overheating issue. This was reported from TGS too, but then the PS3s where in closed boxes with little airflow. We'll see, I guess.

On a positive note, he has said that the picture detail of BD movies is very good. I know he is not an HT enthusiast and I'm not even sure if he has an HD capable set, but he still has possession of the PS3 and is very interested of the possibility of bringing it over to demo it on my 50" plasma.

I sure hope he is willing to do so.... :D :cool:

Dude! You need to go get him, offer him free pizza, beer and the lot. Whatever it takes, get him to your house! NOONE has reported first hand seing Blu-ray playback, you could be THE ONE! :D Sheesh, I'd go pick him up for you if I was in the area.

Oh, you should buy a couple of Blu-ray titles to check out, if you haven't already. MPEG2 and MPEG 4... :)

Good luck! We eagerly await your report.... ;)

I'm not worried about firmware issues. Those will be updated. Slightly more concerned about the overheating issue. This was reported from TGS too, but then the PS3s where in closed boxes with little airflow. We'll see, I guess.)

Several devs have reported leaving their PS3 debug units on for days on end with no overheating resulting, so honestly I'm not too worried aboutthe retail units as long as they're not kept in a house or space with a ~100F ambient temperature.

I never said ms's plan was optimal or anything but that IS the plan. also the 360 will have a 5-6 year life span, quit thinking that the 360's life starts with the ps3, its already a year old. also MS has much more resources and lower costs than sony for this gen so reaching profitability for them is easily within reach.

I never said ms's plan was optimal or anything but that IS the plan.I don't remember Microsoft ever saying that they were planning to release game consoles with shorter lifespans. They might very well decide to do that though I personally don't think that would be a good idea.


also the 360 will have a 5-6 year life span, quit thinking that the 360's life starts with the ps3, its already a year old.Didn't you just say though that you thought Microsoft was going to release their next game console earlier than normal? Also how would you know when Microsoft will decide to release their next game console?

I said ms will release the 720 most likely 4-5 years ino the ps3 life cycle, that's 5-6 years for the 360, exactly what I said. How do I know MS's plan? what would you do if you hadsuperior resources and technology but were behind to an established leader. Its common MS strategy, you bleed the competition. MS was really shrewed this time around. they are turning profits with hd-dvd, a relativley cheap 360 (compared to the cost of the ps3) and with minimal risk to boot.

another fact to consider is most pc gamers upgrade every 4-5 years. a 5-6 year cycle is perfectly fine for those who wish to keep up with the pc market. I personaly would rather it be that way to keep things in the now as opposed to falling for futre promise bs. I'm a show m kinda guy not a stroke my ego while you steal my wallet kind.

another fact to consider is most pc gamers upgrade every 4-5 years. a 5-6 year cycle is perfectly fine for those who wish to keep up with the pc market. I personaly would rather it be that way to keep things in the now as opposed to falling for futre promise bs. I'm a show m kinda guy not a stroke my ego while you steal my wallet kind.

PC gamers or PC owners? Because most serious PC gamers upgrade like once a year. If you were using a graphics card from five years ago at the moment, you'd be kickin' it with either an NVidia GeForce 3, an ATI Radeon 8500, or a PowerVR Kyro card. I don't even *know* how someone playing any modern games would hope to do so on any of those cards.

if you have access to the grey market you can get stuff way ahead of release. my 3 yr old pc has an x800xtpe w/ 3.6ghz p4 (prescot). games just fine (on medium).

I thought we were supposed to be talking about the PS3 as a Blu-ray player in this thread..... :D

The gaming forum is where you guys should be debating the 360 vs. the PS3 in reference to gaming.

I'm not worried about firmware issues. Those will be updated. Slightly more concerned about the overheating issue. This was reported from TGS too, but then the PS3s where in closed boxes with little airflow. We'll see, I guess.

Same here. My Toshiba HD-A1 has been fixed with firmware updates, so I have no doubt that Sony will make good on that. I too am worried about excessive heat, but time will tell.

Dude! You need to go get him, offer him free pizza, beer and the lot. Whatever it takes, get him to your house! NOONE has reported first hand seing Blu-ray playback, you could be THE ONE! :D Sheesh, I'd go pick him up for you if I was in the area.

Oh, you should buy a couple of Blu-ray titles to check out, if you haven't already. MPEG2 and MPEG 4... :)

Good luck! We eagerly await your report.... ;)

Oh that's a definite! He's booked up with other stuff for the rest of this week, but he's going to give me a call early next week. He's a stand-up guy, so I have no doubt that one way or another, we'll make this a reality.

Agreed, I need to see it for myself as this will be the make/break thing for BD for me. I refuse to purchase a $1,000 standalone player, but I will gladly drop $600 on a PS3 as long as the quality is on par (or even in the same ballpark) as the standalone players.

I eagerly look forward to writing it. FWIW, he's also beta testing the Wii as well, and mentioned something about bringing it along as well. It may be quite the interesting week... :D

BT remote confirmed! Sorry if this has already been posted:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/736/736936p1.html

Finally no Ir crap. :)

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/736/736936/ps3-peripherals-announced-20061003010025635.jpg

I'm disapointed with the remote. You can't use with any of the learning remotes, so there's always an aditional remote you have to use. Looks like Sony where to stingy to put an IR port on the PS3.

add a IR port, more people bitch thats its even more expensive. I give up.

Well the 360 has an IR port. IR ports are cheap. It's a strange decision to go with Bluetooth insdead of good old IR.

And why aren't they packing the thing with the top model. Isn't this supose to be a Blu Ray player?

Sure its quiet, but at what cost?

But a report from Macquarie Equities analyst David Gibson is causing worries, with descriptions of erratic behavior of display units, says the AP (via Washington Post).

Investors worried about the product after Macquarie Equities analyst David Gibson wrote in a report that PlayStation 3 units on display at the Tokyo Game Show about 10 days ago operated erratically and had to be repeatedly reset.

"While the reason for this is unknown, we suspect it may be due to overheating as a result of enclosing the units and the high temperatures at the venue," Gibson wrote in the report Monday. "We are concerned that such a problem has occurred so close to full production and is clearly negative news for the company."

This is of course from Jason who gives us very good news on what's going on. I recently speculated that it would have heating issues, as the 360 had/has. This can be a larger issues with the PS3 given the nature of the build and the space it is confined in. I doubt it will be a problem with movie playback, but gaming certainly will generate heat, especially if continued for hours. Kinda puts a cramp in any RPG gamer's style...

They could easily add an IR blaster and remote via the USB ports on the front...just like they had the IR DVD remote for the PS2, which worked fine w/ universals. I wouldn't be surprised that even if Sony doesn't provide this solution, a 3rd party will.

I, too, find it quite odd that they wouldn't include IR. And that a remote wouldn't come standard w/ the high-end model. They HAVE to know that Blu-ray playback is part of the premium folks are looking for...and what better way to sell it to the fence-sitters than to include a remote that begs to be used for such a purpose?

As for the overheating issue:

I find it alarming w/ these early units...it could be that the PS3 is just as unreliable as the XBOX 360 at launch. BUT, I'd say its entirely feasible that the kiosks that lacked good ventilation, i.e. special circumstances of the venue, did indeed contribute to the PS3 issues and that it wouldn't have such problems in the typical consumer home. Hell, my DVR is prone to overheating if you shove it in a rack that doesn't have proper airflow...that's the price you pay for boxes packed full of 'the goods'. Personally, I'm not as concerned and think its being over-hyped. But we'll see won't we?

being "as unreliable as the 360" is exactly where the ps3 has always been headed. both consoles offer cutting edge tech (for their respective launch times) and yeah you can expect overheating problems and other failures out of launch poducts. same thing was reported about the 360 prior to launch. not a big deal unless sony isn't good about replacing units like ms.

BT remote confirmed! Sorry if this has already been posted:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/736/736936p1.html

Finally no Ir crap. :)

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/736/736936/ps3-peripherals-announced-20061003010025635.jpg

Dang. :mad:

I control all my audio/video components and lights/dimmers with a single IR remote. I don't want another remote.

NYKO® BRINGS INTERECOOLER TO PLAYSTATION 3 (http://www.nyko.com/nyko/news/?c=65&i=310)

LOS ANGELES – October 3, 2006 – Nyko Technologies®, a premier peripherals manufacturer, announced that they will be releasing the Intercooler for Sony’s PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system this holiday season. This device easily connects to the PlayStation 3 using patent-pending technology that works with the systems power port and vent system. Once attached, the high-efficiency external fan placement dramatically increases internal air flow and allows the console to run at optimal temperature levels. The Intercooler for the PlayStation 3 will be available between $19.99 and $29.99 at major retailers.

“The Intercooler for the Xbox 360 is a hit with gamers and critics, providing piece of mind that their state-of-the-art next generation console is running at optimal performance levels,” said Chris Arbogast, Marketing Manager at Nyko Technologies. “We are confident that the Intercooler for the PlayStation 3 will deliver equally impressive results for consumers that demand the most from their console while protecting their investment.”

More information about Nyko Technologies is available at www.nyko.com.

NYKO® BRINGS INTERECOOLER TO PLAYSTATION 3 (http://www.nyko.com/nyko/news/?c=65&i=310)

Not surprising after how successful they were with the xbox360. They can play off those fears with the PS3 as well.

"Nyko Intercooler 360 Achieves Record Breaking Sales Options " (http://www.xboxliveaddicts.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=11598)

I'm just gonna buy the 80dollar replacement plan for 3 years.

I think it's great the remote is BlueTooth. Sure, it will be a pain for people with have universal controls for their HTs, but in time, it is more and more likely that remotes will replace IR by bluetooth, because it's non-directional and not very expensive(more expensive than IR, for sure...)
Hopefully, a third-party will create an USB-IR receiver and remote-control for those needing to integrate universal controls.(The PS3 is considered a media center for the HT by Sony...)

Not surprising after how successful they were with the xbox360. They can play off those fears with the PS3 as well.

"Nyko Intercooler 360 Achieves Record Breaking Sales Options " (http://www.xboxliveaddicts.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=11598) How effective did the cooler cools off the 360? Did it generate more noise? Did it mask of 360s noise?

Ultimately for Nyko to convince people that this is what they need (like selling refrigerators to Inuits in winter), the unit has to be as quiet as the PS3 and merges with the design instead of being very obtrusive.

I think a cheaper solution would be this.
http://www.dansdata.com/images/usbthings/usbfan640.jpg
Cheap and easy and it'll add that Ambilight feel to it. :D


fuad

How effective did the cooler cools off the 360? Did it generate more noise? Did it mask of 360s noise?

Ultimately for Nyko to convince people that this is what they need (like selling refrigerators to Inuits in winter), the unit has to be as quiet as the PS3 and merges with the design instead of being very obtrusive.


fuad



My experience with the cooler has been good the top and back of my 360 is very cool and you can feel the hot air being pumped out of the back of the cooler. I have had zero problems with it to each their own I guess.

Rob

I can't believe how many intercooler haters there are out there. I bought one and it was definitely worth $20. Is it sad that a console requires this type of accessory in the first place, yes, but do I want to keep exchanging consoles with microsoft due to excess heat-related issues, no. Thanks Nyko!

....Have you tried the intercooler out? It makes a very noticeable difference in the temperature of the console. All you have to do is place your hand towards the back of the console without the intercooler, then let the 360 run with the intercooler for about 10 minutes and place your hand on the same area. It is much, much cooler. Don't tell me that's a placebo effect, lol.


Coments from here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730021

Long thread, lots of game talk. Did anyone actually see any reports of BD-ROM playback on the PS3 at TGS?

I 2nd that. anyone have any real details about video playback for the ps3?

Long thread, lots of game talk. Did anyone actually see any reports of BD-ROM playback on the PS3 at TGS? It is Tokyo Game Show hence the focus on games. No reports from any gaming sites have reported BD movie playback at TGS.


fuad

The Ps3 is a good bluray player. i have seen it now a couple of times in action and it looks good. when i saw the sony bsd 1000 next to it. i couldnt see any difference in the PQ quality.

wonderful news......I'm starting to get really pumped about a new console. been a long time coming for the ps3.

The Ps3 is a good bluray player. i have seen it now a couple of times in action and it looks good. when i saw the sony bsd 1000 next to it. i couldnt see any difference in the PQ quality.

Sweet :)

With the Cell processor, I hope the PS3 can do trick play, like playing the movie in reverse without the judder - ala DVSP7000/7700. That would be sweet.

In other news, from PSM3Mag.com: (http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_does_it_get_hot)
OK. Here's the independent, non-Sony approved truth. We've played a PS3, for a day, in a room, with it on a table in front of us. At no stage did anyone comment about the noise it made (ie, next to none). And a collegue put his hand behind the machine after it had been running for a few hours and felt warm air being quietly and safely extracted via a fan via the vents at the back of the machine. The surface of the machine remained at room temperature with a small portion at the back being 'warm'. Not hot - 'warm'.

So, the PSM3 independent verdict here is that - quote - "PS3 generates less heat and noise than the combination of 360 and powerbrick".

Somebody should throw that analyst in a Guantanamo cell.


fuad

The Ps3 is a good bluray player. i have seen it now a couple of times in action and it looks good. when i saw the sony bsd 1000 next to it. i couldnt see any difference in the PQ quality.


Could PS3 play/stream MPEG2-TS from NAS or USB HDD? How about DLNA?

With the Cell processor, I hope the PS3 can do trick play, like playing the movie in reverse without the judder - ala DVSP7000/7700. That would be sweet.

In other news, from PSM3Mag.com: (http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_does_it_get_hot)


Somebody should throw that analyst in a Guantanamo cell.


fuad

That is GREAT news :D

My 2 year old progressive scan dvd player took a dump last night. I've got a backup dvd player that I thik I'll use till PS3 comes out. No sense in spending money on a hd dvd player, or even an upconverting player, if I can get the PS3 in a few months.

My 2 year old progressive scan dvd player took a dump last night. I've got a backup dvd player that I thik I'll use till PS3 comes out. No sense in spending money on a hd dvd player, or even an upconverting player, if I can get the PS3 in a few months. Awww. Well hopefully you'll get one before Christmas.


fuad

Awww. Well hopefully you'll get one before Christmas.


fuad


Not too big of a rush if I can't get one. I don't feel like I'm missing too much in the meantime.

I saw the demo of photos and the music player, looked great. But does anyone know if the PS3 will be able to access photos and music across a network, such as say my XP machine? Or will we need a Linux box or a dedicated NAS device?

thanks

From Next-Gen.Biz (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3956&Itemid=2)
ITmedia reported the results of a Japanese survey, which asked respondents to mark which next generation console they plan to buy by the end of the year.

The Wii came out on top with a 40 percent share, but the more expensive PlayStation 3 followed very close behind with 39 percent.


fuad

I guess TGS did have an impact. :) Interesting numbers considering the price difference...

PSWii? :)

I'll stick with my Wii60 for now!

what were the realities of the survey? the last credible survey I saw had the ps3 way below the wii in japan.

I'm disapointed with the remote. You can't use with any of the learning remotes, so there's always an aditional remote you have to use. Looks like Sony where to stingy to put an IR port on the PS3.

Well, Sony is using Bluetooth for the controllers.

I do not think IR would be too good for that purpose.

Maybe all audio equipment should start implementing Bluetooth in the future instead of antiquated IR?