That's exactlely what they want us to do. They can't supply BD disks , specially new releases, to everybody. Netflix is now stuck with millions of DVDs and want us to get the cheaper version.

I hit them a little harder, I just dumped them period, and getting ready to dump BB also. I've got dozens of premiums on Sat in HD right now, and the quality is good enough and with the slowness of getting disks out, not to mention rasiing prices, I don't need it. It's pretty sad when you see some of the disks you are waiting on show up on some of the premium channels.

That's exactlely what they want us to do. They can't supply BD disks , specially new releases, to everybody. Netflix is now stuck with millions of DVDs and want us to get the cheaper version.

I can't imagine that Netflix wants to make less money from us. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the cost benefit is to make us drop BD. Maybe the folks that want it badly enough will pay for it anyway, and that will offset those that drop off?

I guess they really only need to keep a little over a quarter of the BD subscribers to improve their margins . . . and anything above that is gravy.

They're both atrocious at getting BDs out now, and now they raise the price, this sounds typical of today's businesses, less for more.

They're both atrocious at getting BDs out now, and now they raise the price, this sounds typical of today's businesses, less for more.

perfectly stated

I just dumped BD access from my Netflix account. If you want to do something about the BD price increase, I'd suggest you do the same.
A lot of NF subscribers are either changing or canceling their subscriptions because of the dramatic price increase for BDs. See the thread about it in the Blu-ray softward Forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969946).

Many posters are screaming their heads off but a surprising number of others are rationalizing the whole thing. For the time being, it is possible to get a BB subscription for 3 discs at a time, including BDs, for $15.99 a month, whereas the same deal from NF, which would include BDs, is $20.99 a month. If you live near a BB store you can also get 5 in store exchanges a month in addition to the 3 mail order discs at a time for $19.99 a month. That would make the decision whether to stay with NF or move to BB pretty easy for me if I were not already a BB subscriber.

A lot of NF subscribers are either changing or canceling their subscriptions because of the dramatic price increase for BDs. See the thread about it in the Blu-ray softward Forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969946).

Many posters are screaming their heads off but a surprising number of others are rationalizing the whole thing. For the time being, it is possible to get a BB subscription for 3 discs at a time, including BDs, for $15.99 a month, whereas the same deal from NF, which would include BDs, is $20.99 a month. If you live near a BB store you can also get 5 in store exchanges a month in addition to the 3 mail order discs at a time for $19.99 a month. That would make the decision whether to stay with NF or move to BB pretty easy for me if I were not already a BB subscriber.

No BB's in my area. I can rationalize the elimination of BD with the fact that I can now let my FIL watch any movies I get . . . he was missing a lot of good ones because he doesn't have BD player (nor the need for one with his eyesight ;)).

And my PS3 does a decent job of upscaling, too . . .

A lot of NF subscribers are either changing or canceling their subscriptions because of the dramatic price increase for BDs. See the thread about it in the Blu-ray softward Forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969946).

Many posters are screaming their heads off but a surprising number of others are rationalizing the whole thing. For the time being, it is possible to get a BB subscription for 3 discs at a time, including BDs, for $15.99 a month, whereas the same deal from NF, which would include BDs, is $20.99 a month. If you live near a BB store you can also get 5 in store exchanges a month in addition to the 3 mail order discs at a time for $19.99 a month. That would make the decision whether to stay with NF or move to BB pretty easy for me if I were not already a BB subscriber.


I bumped from 4-at-a-time to 3-at-a-time, but there are a lot of other considerations before jumping ship to BB, including but not limited to:


If you aren't lucky enough to have been grandfathered in ~2 years ago, BB changed their in-store-policy so now if you get an in-store rental it counts against your online rentals (i.e. you have to return it before they'll ship the next disc from your queue).
For me, BB has 4 day turnaround (2 days shipping each way) while NF only has a 2 day turnaround (1 day shipping each way)
My nearest BB is about 10 miles away. Hardly convenient.
NF has streaming to multiple devices, including my XBOX.
NF supports multiple profiles, which I love. For example, I'm on a 3 at a time, but I have my own queue and my wife has her own queue, so I get 2 movies from mine and 1 from my wife's, so everyone has a movie at home to watch without constant queue maintenance. NOTE: I don't know if BB supports this, but not that I remember or have heard.


That's just a couple things I considered when deciding to stay with NF. There's also the fact that ~2 years ago when BB decided to keep charging me the same amount but take away unlimited in-store exchanges and my monthly coupons for game and movie rentals, I felt more screwed than NF just made me feel.

I'm not defending NF, but pointing out the reasons I've decided to stay (but cut back my plan). I decided that NF was worth a few bucks more than BB, just for streaming and faster turnaround for mailed discs. They have also been good about replacing damaged discs, as well as sending me an "extra" disc from my queue in the event a movie is not available locally and has to ship from somewhere else in the country that is going to take more than 1 day to get here.

All-in-all, both services have pluses and minuses, but NF "wins" for my particular situation and preferences, even though I'm still upset about the price increase.

No BB's in my area. I can rationalize the elimination of BD with the fact that I can now let my FIL watch any movies I get . . . he was missing a lot of good ones because he doesn't have BD player (nor the need for one with his eyesight ;)).

And my PS3 does a decent job of upscaling, too . . .
First, I have a PS3, too, and agree that it does a great job of upscaling.

Think about shifting to BB anyway, even if you are not near a BB store. The comparable prices for 2 at a time and 3 at a time are cheaper at BB than they are at NF if you rent BDs. Note that BB has a mail order option, which is cheaper than one of the plans that includes in store exchanges.

First, I have a PS3, too, and agree that it does a great job of upscaling.

Think about shifting to BB anyway, even if you are not near a BB store. The comparable prices for 2 at a time and 3 at a time are cheaper at BB than they are at NF if your rent BDs.

Thanks, I'll consider it. I have to admit that I've been extremely satisfied with Netflix, up until the BD price increase. They get my returned disks the next day and ship the successive disks in the queue that evening pretty much every time. If BB can't live up to that standard in the Portland ME area, then there's not much sense in me switching.

Thanks, I'll consider it. I have to admit that I've been extremely satisfied with Netflix, up until the BD price increase. They get my returned disks the next day and ship the successive disks in the queue that evening pretty much every time. If BB can't live up to that standard in the Portland ME area, then there's not much sense in me switching.
I understand. I even considered switching to NF at one time, before the price increase for BDs of course, but decided against it because of my close proximity to a BB store.

A lot of NF subscribers are either changing or canceling their subscriptions because of the dramatic price increase for BDs. See the thread about it in the Blu-ray softward Forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969946).
Yeah, I'm one of them. ;)

I figured I'd try to keep my rants over there as much as possible since it is the Blu Ray forum. However, I'm definitely going to reduce my plan once the new pricing goes through. Going from the 4 out to a 3 out, I'll save $3 a month with BD access over what I'm paying now before the price increase.

The thing is, I'm not really getting more than a couple more discs a month of any type with the bigger plan. It just means I'm more likely to have a disc at home on a particular day. I can deal with not having anything at home a couple days a week in order to save some money.

If BD service doesn't improve within a few months od the price going up, I'll probably dump NF down to the minimum plan that allows streaming (I do use it here and there - especially now that I have the Samsung BDP2500) and go with BB for the rest.

NetworkTV -- NF customers like you who had a 4 at a time plan and rent mostly BDs are hurt the worst by this change, it seems to me. BB apparently has no plan that will allow subscribers 4 or more discs out at a time, at least my BB account offers me no such plan. Thus, it appears that people in your position are captives of NF.

How satisfied have you been with NF's streaming? I have a Tivo Series3, so I could benefit from that at least if I ever decided to get a NF subscription. I have heard bad things, though, both about the quantity and the quality of NF's Internet delivered HD movie offerings. What do you think?

NetworkTV -- NF customers like you who had a 4 at a time plan and rent mostly BDs are hurt the worst by this change, it seems to me. BB apparently has no plan that will allow subscribers 4 or more discs out at a time, at least my BB account offers me no such plan. Thus, it appears that people in your position are captives of NF.
If I subbed to BB, it would only be to make up for what I reduce on NF, not as a replacement. I do occasionally use the streaming service, so I want to keep that.

How satisfied have you been with NF's streaming? I have a Tivo Series3, so I could benefit from that at least if I ever decided to get a NF subscription. I have heard bad things, though, both about the quantity and the quality of NF's Internet delivered HD movie offerings. What do you think?
It really depends on a few things:

- Your ISP: Even if you have a fast connection, there is no guarantee that the particular type of traffic isn't being throttled (i.e.: a streaming cap that puts your speed below its normal rate). You may test out at, say 6Mb/s, but may be reduced to 2 on media downloading.

- Your device: I use my Samsung player to stream and I find it much better than I ever did on my computer - even running to my TV. There are two reasons: 1) The player processor is upscaling the Netflix video, so it looks a bit better than a straight pass, 2) The player provides HDMI as opposed to analog RGB from the secondary output of my computer and 3) my computer has a lot going on: various processes in the background, overhead for the DRM, and the Windows OS overhead itself. As a result, the dedicated device will probably do a better job overall. I haven't heard any real feadback on TiVo, though - but be aware they just signed a deal with BB of some sort.

- What devices are doing what on your network and whether you're using WiFi or wired: You'll generally get better results with a wired connect due to overhead on the network, especially if you have other devices that like to ping out and perform various regular upgrades throughout the day. Also, if you have other people in your household using the internet, it will drop your quality quick.

The thing is, upload bandwidth means almost as much as download bandwidth with Netflix streaming since a) the DRM continues to be monitored and b) the bandwidth is constantly being tested.

In my case, my conenction isn't all that quick, but it's a DSL connection that doesn't have all the multimedia throttling that some cable companies impose. As a result, I usually get at least 10 of a possible 13 quality bars on my player. That yields SD that's better than my TV SD, but less than DVD and HD that's better than DVD, but definitely not BD quality.

In short, not a replacement for either disc-based media, but certainly not poor quality. It's good enough for those occasional nights where I want to watch a movie, but they're all in transit.

NetworkTV -- Thanks for your comprehensive report. I think I will pass on NF streaming for the moment but still would like to learn about the quantity and quality of NF's HD movies offered via streaming.

From what I remember, it's also very dependent on the transfer they get. Of course, that's the case with any kind of media, but what I'm saying is, don't assume they have the best to work with. I remember checking out Dirty Harry with it, and it was a pan and scan transfer that looked like an old laserdisc master. So, not only was it not as good as the recent master done for the new DVD and BD releases, it wasn't even as good as the 2001 master done for DVD either. A couple other old Warner titles had similar poor masters, and a Columbia title (A League of Their Own) was so blurry I couldn't watch it either. At least that one was letterboxed.

Also, I tried a couple of recent films where it looked as if every other frame was dropped, resulting in a jerky motion that I couldn't watch for very long. These had the Starz logo beforehand, so maybe they're to blame.

On the other hand, there were some documentaries I watched that weren't bad. It didn't match DVD, but extra compression is probably to be expected with streaming. I found it was good for this kind of material where I'm not as picky. I'd prefer to wait for the disc if it's a major movie.

I haven't watched anything that way for a few months though, so I'm not sure what has changed, if anything. I hear they use a new player, so maybe I'll check that out. I haven't seen any of the HD stuff.

Slumdog Millionaire and Marley and Me came out this Tuesday. But the Blu-Ray versions were not available on BB until a couple days later. I wonder why the few days delay?

Slumdog Millionaire and Marley and Me came out this Tuesday. But the Blu-Ray versions were not available on BB until a couple days later. I wonder why the few days delay?
I got both Slumdog and Marley and Me on BD at my neighborhood BB store on Tuesday morning. They had several copies of each. Thus, I don't know why availability might have been delayed on the Web site.

with no competition, netflix will customers will be scalped alive.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5201935/blockbuster-is-on-its-deathbed?skyline=true&s=i

And here I thought NF's price increase should've been held off a while to put the final nail in BB's coffin, but I guess they knew what they were doing. Now they have their prices set for the inevitable migration of users from BB.

While I despise BB (and this couldn't happen to a nicer company) I fear a bit what will happen to NF subscribers such as myself. I don't think we'll be scalped alive (literally or figuratively) but competition is always a good thing.

It still makes me wonder why they just never closed their stores and went as a direct competititor to NF's mail-only service. BB's B&M business has been dying for years. Could be awhile before they officially close up shop, but I expected them to go under 5 years ago, and they're still clinging on.

Once Goliath to Netlflix's David, Blockbuster appears on the defensive in an effort to stay relevant to movie fans and viable as a business. In a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Committee Monday, Blockbuster stated it may have to permanently close its retail stores. The company recently took out a $250 million loan -- on top of its $780.9 million debt -- and does not know if it can meet the conditions of the loan.

Blockbuster said it has "substantial doubt" about continuing as a "going concern." A going concern is business jargon for the ability to continue as a functioning business that is not forced to liquidate its assets. The company operates 7400 stores globally, which spells bad news for Blockbuster employees and brick-and-mortar movie rental mavens.

Link below for full story

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090407/tc_pcworld/blockbustermayshutretailstores_1

I don't think it's sad. They lost me as a customer with their ridiculous pricing for a rental. Not to mention their draconian late fee rules. By the time they started back peddling on these things to compete with Netflix, it was too late. Oh yeah, and the time they called me liar, saying that I didn't turn in a movie (which I did). They later found it in a back room.

Well that sucks. Means I'll have to join NF now, just to get anywhere up to 6 rentals that I may want a year.

Seggers

I'll just move on to Hollywood Video. Not giving NF my business for their repeated price increases.

I'll just move on to Hollywood Video. Not giving NF my business for their repeated price increases.

they've also done repeated price cuts in the past. Blu-ray users will have to pay more that's something that comes with the territory. and largely is teh fault of the consortium which has made their pans to not cut prices on HW or SW anytime soon.

Good riddance to BB, I worked for hollywood video for a couple years and since then they've been bought out and then bankruptted so who knows what teh service quality is like at your average store. I know I haven't set foot in mine(about 6 miles away) for teh 3 years since I quit.

I'll just move on to Hollywood Video. Not giving NF my business for their repeated price increases.

The only one near me closed shop, so I went to the Blockbuster across the street. I should probably look into the independent shops. :(

Good riddance, there were always a step behind in terms of technology and their policy of not carrying movies that they found "offensive" was a deal breaker for me.

Honestly with the no extra charge for their Instant Watch service, Netflix's product is probably kind of underpriced at the moment.

merged in a small thread...

larry

they've also done repeated price cuts in the past. Blu-ray users will have to pay more that's something that comes with the territory. and largely is teh fault of the consortium which has made their pans to not cut prices on HW or SW anytime soon.

Good riddance to BB, I worked for hollywood video for a couple years and since then they've been bought out and then bankruptted so who knows what teh service quality is like at your average store. I know I haven't set foot in mine(about 6 miles away) for teh 3 years since I quit.

I didn't even know Hollywood was still in business. Ours closed a couple years ago and I just assumed they were defunct, but I guess they're still around. Not sure I'd ever go back to having to go to a store to spend $4 for one rental, but to each their own. I'd probably go to Redbox if I was deadset against NF.

As for NF, yeah, the price increase kindof sucks....and the double-increase sucks harder. But I don't mind the premium. Still cheaper than buying, and BB is by far a much worse company (IMO) to support. Actually NF has been nothing but stellar to me.....I haven't had availability issues like others, but I also have a couple hundred movies in my queue and don't expect to get a new release the week it's out (I swear some people expect NF to have 1 copy/customer and no waits). They've been good with broken discs, as well as sending me a "local" disc in the event one has to ship from somewhere else. And of course, the streaming to my XBOX was a nice surprise that they didn't charge me anything for (yet, anyways).

I'm just happy to see BB is continuing to die, but they've been dying for awhile. Looks like it finally might be drawing its last breaths.

I'm kinda surprised that BlockBuster lasted as long doing both mail rentals and brick and mortar stores. They can't drop the B&Ms because NF has the mail rentals and just B&Ms may not be as lucrative with NF as big as they are and now things like Red Box, streaming, and a crappy economic setting. It would be interesting to know how many "mom and pops" have closed doors in the last year.

larry

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Blockbuster Inc (BBI.N), the largest store-based U.S. movie rental chain, said the risk that it may not complete a deal to amend its credit facilities raises "substantial doubt" about its ability to continue as a going concern, according to a securities filing on Monday.

Linky (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE53568L20090406)

Dang. I'm actually pulling for Blockbuster. Despite most people hating Blockbuster with a passion, they are clearly the best choice "for me", in terms of their rental plans. I know that their rental plans aren't for everybody. But for me, they are currently providing the best value, especially in light of the recent NetFlix Blu Ray renters price jump. There happens to be a BB store within a 3 minute drive of my house. I have the 3 at a time in the mail, 5 in-store exchanges per month plan. Just today, I drove over there and grabbed the Blu Ray version of "Marley & Me" for the kids.

If Blockbuster goes down in flames, my only other options are NetFlix and RedBox. Honestly though, RedBox really isn't a viable option. Only one RedBox near me has Blu Ray's, and they have an extremely anemic selection of BD's. Plus, RedBox only provides new releases for the most part.

I hope BB somehow survives this.

I won't miss them...

They are overpriced, have horrible rental time tables, stores are too crowded with junk they keep trying to push rather than concentrate on stocking rental movies...the list goes on.

I rather use Hollywood Video and Red Box to get my DVD fix.

Didn't Blockbuster buy Hollywood Video last year?

I don't know whether to laugh or fart.

I drove by a Blockbuster today that is no longer. Just last week it was there.
Blockbuster drove the indie video store I worked for out of business about 20 years ago. At the time, I loved working there. Free vids and games, some pretty cool customers and one of those back rooms with, well, you know :p. I'm kind of glad to see them go.

I'm on the side of hoping BB survives. I left NetFlix with their "Very Long Wait" on almost every title on my list, and this was before their outrageous premium for Blu-ray.

All the Hollywood Video outlets went out a long time ago around me, so if BB goes, hello Bit Torrent.

A friend of mine says a couple shut down in Nashville too. One of which closed with no notice. Was open one day and two days later the store was completely vacant.

Without a doubt, Blockbuster needs to cut costs and improve cash flow. Between their CEO stating that price changes are coming, and their need to improve cash flow I am guessing we will hear about price increases VERY soon.

Blockbuster auditors said there's "substantial doubt" of the No. 1 U.S. movie-rental chain's ability to continue to have the liquidity to fund continued operations even if the company's planned $250 million refinancing agreement is completed.

Blockbuster last month said it would try to cut costs for at least the early part of this year on items such as retail inventory and capital expenditures in order to reduce its debt by about $100 million to comply with a new refinancing agreement with JPMorgan Chase and other banks.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6649822.html?desc=topstory

I don't know whether to laugh or fart.

lol, second that..http://nopollution.info/hosted/img/3044/e09e0225fewt/tongue.gif

Anyone who uses either Blockbuster or Netflix should want to see both survive. Competition is good. Anyone who thinks that pricing and availiability etc. will get better with less competition isn't thinking straight. Look what happens when Southwest or JetBlue comes into another airport -- prices drop. Same thing.

stores are too crowded with junk they keep trying to push rather than concentrate on stocking rental movies

You don't understand retail. They are trying to push that junk to keep a profit margin high enough to stay in business.
It's necessary evil.

You should also never want LESS competition in the marketplace. It only allows the other competitors to charge more once competition decreases.

^^ yes and this isn't about prices for you and I as far as issues go and BB surviving. No one should be for BB going under even those who work at Netflix, Hollywood Video, etc. This is about jobs and keeping business' afloat. The biggest expense of most business' that have employees is employees. When Netflix go completely automated with readers that put sorters out of a job there will be how many more laid off.:mad::( Bad news!

Unfortunately, I fully expect that only by shedding the B&M end of the business will Blockbuster survive at all.

Netflix needs competition, and Blockbuster is properly positioned to provide it, but the immense overhead of keeping all those stores open means they can't be profitable.

So look for a Chapter 13 reorganization, thousands of "for lease" signs on Blockbuster stores, lots of young people and too many store managers looking for jobs, and a Blockbuster that emerges as a newly stripped down, refinanced, mail and streaming service. Maybe they will also try to compete with Red Box. Maybe they will try to establish some exclusive relationships for rental or streaming (or both) with certain studios or distributors. Maybe they will try forming partnerships with compatible retailers, like Best Buy, or try something like mall kiosks, to maintain a physical presence in the marketplace and distinguish themselves from Netflix.

But I'm betting that this time next year there will be few, if any, Blockbuster retail outlets left in their current form.

You don't understand retail.

Add that to his list.

Unfortunately, I fully expect that only by shedding the B&M end of the business will Blockbuster survive at all.

Netflix needs competition, and Blockbuster is properly positioned to provide it, but the immense overhead of keeping all those stores open means they can't be profitable.

So look for a Chapter 13 reorganization, thousands of "for lease" signs on Blockbuster stores, lots of young people and too many store managers looking for jobs, and a Blockbuster that emerges as a newly stripped down, refinanced, mail and streaming service. Maybe they will also try to compete with Red Box. Maybe they will try to establish some exclusive relationships for rental or streaming (or both) with certain studios or distributors. Maybe they will try forming partnerships with compatible retailers, like Best Buy, or try something like mall kiosks, to maintain a physical presence in the marketplace and distinguish themselves from Netflix.

But I'm betting that this time next year there will be few, if any, Blockbuster retail outlets left in their current form.

I totally agree...becoming an online only rental company would be the best option for them.

When they close the stores, it will irk a lot of folks who relied on BB to get their weekly fix of movies etc.

They are bringing back late fees in the coming months.

One of the big killers for Block Buster has been servicing their debt. If they file for chapter 13 the share holders will get wiped out and the debt holders will take a hair cut but basically own the company. The question then is how to maximize those profits. Shedding some of the leases would definitely be in the cards while they are reorganizing but I don't think that shedding all of them is. A lot of the stores are still profitable. With out the debt this is a profitable company. A good chunk of that profit comes from stuff that would not do as well on line like game consoles etc.

Also keep in mind that they aren't bankrupt yet. SEC regulations say you have to spell out the risks which is what they have done.

They are bringing back late fees in the coming months.

Good. No late fees for Blu-ray means great difficulty renting titles for which they get only a handful of copies.

I hate them but I can see their need in the larger scheme of things. It's just that there are so many films one knows nothing about on the shelves, and not just the awful horror movies. It wouldn't cost them all that much to bring in just a copy or two of foreign movies that we know about that get limited release, for those who dig such stuff.

But it's poetic justice that they who so ruthlessly drove out the little stores are now falling to the modern economic environment.

Agreed, debt is the big thing taking down Blockbuster. Also, their profits shrunk when they went to no late fees. That was a big portion of pure profit for them. Of course, now, bringing late fees back will probably alienate customers who are used to no late fees. I think the stores themselves are profitable, it's just the debt that is holding Blockbuster back.

You don't understand retail. They are trying to push that junk to keep a profit margin high enough to stay in business.
It's necessary evil.

You should also never want LESS competition in the marketplace. It only allows the other competitors to charge more once competition decreases.

When I go into Best Buy I always thank the nice older couple buying the $200 HDMI cable that the 18 year old kid is highly recommending. I thank them because the extra $198 they spent on the cable just saved me $4 on the pack of 50 writable DVDs I just bought.

The uninformed people buy the things with the 10,000% mark-up and I buy the things that they take a 1% loss on to get the uniformed people in the door.

The retailer makes their money on the uniformed, the uninformed just declare bankruptcy, and I get a 10-16% discount on everything I buy(with coupons, price matching, loss leader discounts). So everyone wins. At least, until enough people declare bankruptcy so that the world plummets into a downward spiraling depression. But hey I got my 16% discount so I am happy!

You don't understand retail. They are trying to push that junk to keep a profit margin high enough to stay in business.
It's necessary evil.

You should also never want LESS competition in the marketplace. It only allows the other competitors to charge more once competition decreases.

Oh I COMPLETELY understand retail and what BB is trying to do to make money...but their stores are SO small to begin with and they keep trying to squeeze more and more crap in there vs. mainly movies to rent that it's being overrun by overpriced junk like toys, posters, magazines etc...heck they even tried putting a mini Radio Shack in our local stores years ago which took away MORE space that could be used to rent movies etc.

I understand needing to sell more than just the rentals, and that's cool as long as they do it effectively and it doesn't overcrowd the stores.

netflix is ok .

One of the big killers for Block Buster has been servicing their debt. If they file for chapter 13 the share holders will get wiped out and the debt holders will take a hair cut but basically own the company. The question then is how to maximize those profits. Shedding some of the leases would definitely be in the cards while they are reorganizing but I don't think that shedding all of them is. A lot of the stores are still profitable. With out the debt this is a profitable company. A good chunk of that profit comes from stuff that would not do as well on line like game consoles etc.

Also keep in mind that they aren't bankrupt yet. SEC regulations say you have to spell out the risks which is what they have done.

This company IS NOT profitable precisely because of the debt incurred by bad decisions. Its' arss got kicked by new models, NF & Redbox and they didn't adapt. Now they will downsize, lick their wounds and probably need to close 2/3 of thier stores. Eventually, buggy whip makers were put out of business by cars, US car companies will eventually be put out of business unless they get Union concessions etc....

Consumers adapt...I have NF Unlimited 1 at a time ($10)and get 6-8 BD per month...not always the new releases but they got a helluva Live Concert Collection. I use redbox when I want a new release dvd quick and keep it for one viewing ($1 - usually about 4 per/month) That's how I keep my family of 6 watchin' what they want and doing it economically...I adgusted...hope BB does but when I used thier service for 6 months, the turn around time for dvd's was 2-3 times worse than NF.

My $.02

netflix is ok .

Powerful post!

Redbox is ok :)

Yeah, I've used those kiosks (the one I used wasn't Redbox, but same idea.) Great for catching the new releases on short notice.

On my one-at-a-time plan, between the mailings and in-store exchanges I was able to get as many as 8-10 dvds per month. I would often have a mailed dvd and the previous in-store exchanged disc at home simultaneously. YMMV

Totally - I was doing the same thing: watch movies in my queue during the week and then exchange for a 2-day new release over the weekend while the next from my queue were in the air and would arrive on Tues-Wed. Rinse and repeat 8-10 movies a month for $18. The new policy is a killer.

In my area Hollywood Video has an ad blitz on the radio pushing their PowerPlay program. Apparently they had a glitch with the credit card companies switching custumers on the old MVP program to PowerPlay so instead of being switch last month it didn't happen until this last week. Now the bottom of the receipt shows "points remaining." We'll see if this helps business any. I suspect some people who stay on the program will use it to get discs they usually can only find at bigger shops and might use Redbox to fill in. One can move up to the $40 program for "all you can eat - 3 out at a time" but many people are looking at their entertainment expenditures and slashing them nowadays.

I had an unexpected thing happen with netflix for the first time. One of the BDs they sent me wasn't available locally so they sent from it elsewhere and it will take a few days. So they sent it and also sent me 2 other discs (for the 2 I returned) which came the next day, as usual. I'm on the 2-out plan. They sent email explaining what they did. Nice.

larry

I had an unexpected thing happen with netflix for the first time. One of the BDs they sent me wasn't available locally so they sent from it elsewhere and it will take a few days. So they sent it and also sent me 2 other discs (for the 2 I returned) which came the next day, as usual. I'm on the 2-out plan. They sent email explaining what they did. Nice.

larry

Yeah, they've been doing that for awhile now. I actually like when that happens cause it's like I get a bonus disc.

I posted earlier in this thread about the large backlog of short/long wait discs on Blockbuster. Now BB is starting to take two or three business days to ship out my next disc, even when they've logged receipt of a returned disc.

I e-mailed them about it, and they responded with a "friendly suggestion" that I "please keep at least 15 or more 'available' titles on the top of it.

This going around in circles!

I had an unexpected thing happen with netflix for the first time. One of the BDs they sent me wasn't available locally so they sent from it elsewhere and it will take a few days. So they sent it and also sent me 2 other discs (for the 2 I returned) which came the next day, as usual. I'm on the 2-out plan. They sent email explaining what they did. Nice.

larrythey did that for us once about 6 weeks ago...9 out of 10 rentals we get arrive the next business day so so far I'm impressed.....and ALMOST all of the BR and dvds play and are in good condition-unlike BB!!

I posted earlier in this thread about the large backlog of short/long wait discs on Blockbuster. Now BB is starting to take two or three business days to ship out my next disc, even when they've logged receipt of a returned disc.

I e-mailed them about it, and they responded with a "friendly suggestion" that I "please keep at least 15 or more 'available' titles on the top of it.

This going around in circles!I'm getting the same thing...Q is loaded with movies...all are long to very long wait...some have been like this for weeks...I have not received a movie in over a week. WTF is going on at BB. :mad:

I posted earlier in this thread about the large backlog of short/long wait discs on Blockbuster. Now BB is starting to take two or three business days to ship out my next disc, even when they've logged receipt of a returned disc.

I e-mailed them about it, and they responded with a "friendly suggestion" that I "please keep at least 15 or more 'available' titles on the top of it.

This going around in circles!
I'm getting the same thing...Q is loaded with movies...all are long to very long wait...some have been like this for weeks...I have not received a movie in over a week. WTF is going on at BB. :mad:
I can't imagine what is going on with your BB service, mine remains pretty good. For example, I returned a disc to my neighborhood BB store yesterday afternoon and this morning my BB queue shows in the SHIP/RENT DATE column that The Reader, which will be released on BD Tomorrow, is "Processing." Thus, it should be shipped today or tomorrow. Most of my mail order discs have been arriving in one or two days after I get notification that they have shipped.

I'm getting the same thing...Q is loaded with movies...all are long to very long wait...some have been like this for weeks...I have not received a movie in over a week. WTF is going on at BB. :mad:

I'm suffering from similar, I use the Atlanta address on returns. I have the 3 at a time, this weekend I checked the queue and it had only 1 out, but it didn't show that I had any returns, which of course I'd sent in two disks, one on probably Tuesday and the other on Wednesday or Thursday.

It's getting really slow and takes several days for disks to even get acknowledged as being returned, I also have problems with them sending out new disks after they're officially received at times too, this has been going on since January at least.

Just a thought, but they may be retooling things a lot to try to keep from going under. Maybe consolidating distribution centers and stuff...

I have no source or anything, just a guess of what could be happening with them.

Just a thought, but they may be retooling things a lot to try to keep from going under. Maybe consolidating distribution centers and stuff...

I have no source or anything, just a guess of what could be happening with them.
Yeah, the delays some BB mail order customers are experiencing could very well be caused by BB modifying some procedures in order to reduce expense. What they really need to do, though, it seems to me is close a bunch of stores. I live an OKC suburb, which is about 6 miles from downtown. Nevertheless, there are at least half a dozen BB stores within 2 or 3 miles of my house. That's ridiculous for a company that is teetering on the brink of failure. The problem may be, though, that BB is on the hook for its leases, whether they operate or not, although closing some stores could certainly save salary and benefit expenses.

Yeah, the delays some BB mail order customers are experiencing could very well be caused by BB modifying some procedures in order to reduce expense. What they really need to do, though, it seems to me is close a bunch of stores. I live an OKC suburb, which is about 6 miles from downtown. Nevertheless, there are at least half a dozen BB stores within 2 or 3 miles of my house. That's ridiculous for a company that is teetering on the brink of failure. The problem may be, though, that BB is on the hook for its leases, whether they operate or not, although closing some stores could certainly save salary and benefit expenses.

Yeah, that's a catch-22 as well....the only advantage they have over NF is in-store exchanges, so closing a bunch of stores is going to save them some money, but lose them even more customers....

It's not a good time to be BB.

Yeah, that's a catch-22 as well....the only advantage they have over NF is in-store exchanges, so closing a bunch of stores is going to save them some money, but lose them even more customers....

It's not a good time to be BB.
I do have a vested interest in my neighborhood BB store, which is less than a mile from my house, along a route with only one stop sign. Nevertheless, if BB consolidated its OKC operation and I had to drive an extra couple of miles to get to a store, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I just hate to see them fiddle while Rome burns.

I have three BB just about 3 miles from each other. I live in NYC. Although I have netflix, I am considering canceling my account with them because of long waits on new release titles. I have to put movies in my que just to get at least something. Trying to get my monies worth here. I had the 3-BD a month plan. Now, under the new plan, I get 2-BD for the same price. I mean, what is 2 movies going to do for me if one or both of them I didn't want to watch. Netflix turn around time is a good three days from door to door. I could have gone to anyone of the BB for movie in less than 10 mins. I could do that but that's more money on top of my Netflix account. ARGGHHH!!

I wanted Netflix because of the Blu's and now it's not even worth it anymore. I am beginning to think buying Blu's from Amazon is cheaper.

I have three BB just about 3 miles from each other. I live in NYC. Although I have netflix, I am considering canceling my account with them because of long waits on new release titles. I have to put movies in my que just to get at least something. Trying to get my monies worth here. I had the 3-BD a month plan. Now, under the new plan, I get 2-BD for the same price. I mean, what is 2 movies going to do for me if one or both of them I didn't want to watch. Netflix turn around time is a good three days from door to door. I could have gone to anyone of the BB for movie in less than 10 mins. I could do that but that's more money on top of my Netflix account. ARGGHHH!!

I wanted Netflix because of the Blu's and now it's not even worth it anymore. I am beginning to think buying Blu's from Amazon is cheaper.

netflix's #1 strength is it's vast selection. Rate some movies get some reccomendations and load up you're queue, there's no limit on how many movies you can queue and frankly fi you rate enough movies you'll get more reccomendations than you'll ever need. rent some older BDs, you'll get your money's worth then.

I wanted Netflix because of the Blu's and now it's not even worth it anymore. I am beginning to think buying Blu's from Amazon is cheaper.

Even after the rate increase I am averaging about $1.70 per disc from Netflix.

That's cheaper than buying from Amazon.

46 Blu-ray rentals so far, none cracked. One was visibly bent and would not load.

-Bill

Maybe it's my location. Alot of people want the same movies. Maybe I should reconsider because I only watch movies on the weekends. Not one during the week. Maybe that's why I'm not getting a good value.

Is NetFlix down? Can't seem to get any of its pages to load.

EDIT: Not down, but certainly not very snappy either. The mobile site was unresponsive too, at least for a while.

Instant viewing doesn't seem to work tonight for me...

???

I see some others have been having issues with streaming. I haven't streamed anything in about a week, but I tried tonight and the quality was pretty bad even though I had almost full bars (which should have been full since I'm on a 7.1 connection). Anyone know what's going on?

I see some others have been having issues with streaming. I haven't streamed anything in about a week, but I tried tonight and the quality was pretty bad even though I had almost full bars (which should have been full since I'm on a 7.1 connection). Anyone know what's going on?

What title? Some look really bad, and quality varies wildly from one title to the next.

What title? Some look really bad, and quality varies wildly from one title to the next.

You Don't Mess With The Zohan and Deliver Us From Evil (not nearly as bad though). I was using my BD370, but then I tried Zohan on my PC, and it was even worse.

But after I read your post, I went back and tried streaming a title I know looked great in HD...Serenity. It worked perfectly. So you are probably right in that it's just Zohan which is awful.

I had streamed about 10 movies before (both non-HD and HD) and never ran into anything that looked this bad. But I'm new to Netflix streaming, so needless to say, this was a surprise.

Edit: And I thought Zohan was in HD, but it wasn't, so ignore that part about the quality bar.

I wanted Netflix because of the Blu's and now it's not even worth it anymore. I am beginning to think buying Blu's from Amazon is cheaper.
well amazon is good, but ebay is even better.

26 of my last 33 Netflix Blu-ray Discs have arrived with quarter to half inch edge cracks. 42 perfect ships previous to the start of the problem on 4/24/'09. The cracks are always under the leading edge of the mailer. I reported all 26 as Damaged>Cracked, and called customer service repeatedly. Three times I've had the USPS email the USPS automated processing center where the machines are doing the damage. I've started sticking notes on the damaged discs and have marked them to ensure they aren't being sent back out to me, I've received acknowledgement emails in response. I've been posting at the AVS Netflix BD thread extensively. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969946&page=93 My "Nearest Netflix Shipping Facility" is San Bernardino, CA. Anyone else in Southern California with the cracked edge problem?

6/3/'09 update: 29/36

If any of you guys have not tried the Netflix app with Media Center, it's worth a look. Netflix comes to Windows Vista Media Center (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148713)

I'm done whining about my Netflix Blu-ray Disc cracked edge problem, it's fixed!

Here're my tips on handling the Netflix Blu-ray Disc problem:

1) Report all cracked edge Blu-ray Discs! Queue>Report Problem>Damaged shipment>Cracked. This provides a) a record for a billing adjustment claim, b) a way for Netflix to discover your problem, c) a record for discussing your problem with Netflix and the USPS.

2) Check where the edge crack is related to the mailer. Open your mailers keeping the disc orientation in line and take note that the cracked edge is always in the middle of the leading edge of the mailers(opposite the 'floppy' end.) This provides a) evidence it's an USPS machine processing problem(cuts through backtalk when speaking with Netflix customer service and the USPS,) b) evidence they're not resending cracked edge discs.

3) After your problem is obvious, go over to the Netflix Facebook space and whine(include your city/state/zip code.) Repeat every couple of weeks until you get the attention of Netflix. http://www.facebook.com/netflix#/topic.php?uid=6275848869&topic=8210

Thanks for all the sympathy and support guys!

Can someone with multiple profiles on their account verify if they are seeing this behavior?

1) Login to your primary account, and go to "Your Account"
2) Click on "DVD Rental History"
3) In the dropdown (top left), choose your non-primary profile's rental history.
4) Verify it shows correctly (only those movies from that profile).

Now:
1) Switch to your non-primary account by clicking on your name in the top-right and choosing the other profile.
2) Click on "Your Account" and then "Rental History"
3) See if the rental history is correct, or if it has movies from your primary profile showing in there.

For me, it displays correctly if I'm in the primary profile, but if I am in the sub profile, I see movies from that profile AND my primary profile in there. This starts in June, and goes back to when I first opened the account. From June forward looks ok.

Just curious if it's just me. It's kindof screwing up my Feedfliks stats because it thinks the secondary profile is renting a lot more movies than it really is (since it has movies from both profiles in the rental history).

mproper - its not just you. I see the same thing.

This is what i think...its true..dvd's are the original ones...

mproper - its not just you. I see the same thing.

Thanks. Sucks cause I just discovered FeedFliks and my stats aren't right because Netflix is feeding them the wrong info.

New wrinkle for me; I have Blockbuster, since they changed their policy on sending movies I have seen some odd things. For those not on Blockbuster, on my plan you get 3 movies at a time sent via mail. You can exchange up to 5 at any Blockbuster store per month. They send them back via USPS. Now in the old days you were bound by the store rules for returns when you rented there (5 days, maybe 7 I am not sure). However, the cool part was when the movie you returned to Blockbuster was mailed back to the sorting facility they sent your next queued up movie. Theoretically you could have 6 movies out at once. Since then they have changed their policy that you can keep the movie you rent at the store for as long as you like, the downside is that you no longer get a new movie mailed out when your mailed movie hits the sorting facility if you still have store movie in your possession.

Also, for me at the Farmington Store in Beaverton Oregon, if I return a movie even as early as 7 AM, the website does not register it for up to a day. For instance last week I returned JCVD and Fired Up on Monday the 27th at 6:45 AM. They did not ship a new movie to me until Wednesday the 29th, I received it the next day. It is like they are delaying the store returns on purpose to once again throttle.

Another weird thing I notice, even though this is not as bad a practice. Say you trade in a movie on Tuesday to get something just released. If we watch the movie that night and I return it on my way to work (about 6:45 AM) the next day I do not immediately get another movie sent out. In those cases the website will note that the movie was returned to the store but my Queue will only show 2 movies in my possession. My guess is that they will not send out a new movie until they get the one you traded in to the store back to the sorting facility. I think they should change that policy, clearly the store has it in their possession and the system notes that. What if there is a delay in them mailing it out? What if they loose it at that point? Is that our responsibility?

Still overall the service is pretty good, if only for the fact that in store rentals are $5 for BD, We rent more than 4 movies per month so I do come out ahead.

New wrinkle for me; I have Blockbuster, since they changed their policy on sending movies I have seen some odd things. For those not on Blockbuster, on my plan you get 3 movies at a time sent via mail. You can exchange up to 5 at any Blockbuster store per month. They send them back via USPS. Now in the old days you were bound by the store rules for returns when you rented there (5 days, maybe 7 I am not sure). However, the cool part was when the movie you returned to Blockbuster was mailed back to the sorting facility they sent your next queued up movie. Theoretically you could have 6 movies out at once. Since then they have changed their policy that you can keep the movie you rent at the store for as long as you like, the downside is that you no longer get a new movie mailed out when your mailed movie hits the sorting facility if you still have store movie in your possession.

Also, for me at the Farmington Store in Beaverton Oregon, if I return a movie even as early as 7 AM, the website does not register it for up to a day. For instance last week I returned JCVD and Fired Up on Monday the 27th at 6:45 AM. They did not ship a new movie to me until Wednesday the 29th, I received it the next day. It is like they are delaying the store returns on purpose to once again throttle.

Another weird thing I notice, even though this is not as bad a practice. Say you trade in a movie on Tuesday to get something just released. If we watch the movie that night and I return it on my way to work (about 6:45 AM) the next day I do not immediately get another movie sent out. In those cases the website will note that the movie was returned to the store but my Queue will only show 2 movies in my possession. My guess is that they will not send out a new movie until they get the one you traded in to the store back to the sorting facility. I think they should change that policy, clearly the store has it in their possession and the system notes that. What if there is a delay in them mailing it out? What if they loose it at that point? Is that our responsibility?

Still overall the service is pretty good, if only for the fact that in store rentals are $5 for BD, We rent more than 4 movies per month so I do come out ahead.

I don't use in store returns, but they are definitely delaying the processing of returns. I'm about 99% certain that all mailings take no more than a day, yet it always seems to take at least two and sometimes three days before the returns get processed or even acknowledged that they have been returned. 99%+ of all disks sent to me arrive the next day and I'm fairly certain that all my returns get to the processing center in a day.

Fun article on life in a Netflix warehouse:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0804-netflixaug04,0,6424990.story

I got all excited this morning when I received notice that they had received a title. (Saturday). But my queue states they will ship the next title on Monday. :(

Not sure what the point is of checking them in on Sat if they can't ship till Monday. Maybe the Saturday service is being implemented in stages.

Edit: Now the status has changed to "shipping today". So the Albuquerque shipping center is now doing Saturday service. :cool:

Help!

I'm trying to add the DVD version of Mad Men to by queue. But it's only giving me the option to add the blu-ray version. While I've got the blu-ray option, I don't want this on blu-ray - need the DVD version.

Anyone know whay I can't add the DVD version?

Help!

I'm trying to add the DVD version of Mad Men to by queue. But it's only giving me the option to add the blu-ray version. While I've got the blu-ray option, I don't want this on blu-ray - need the DVD version.

Anyone know whay I can't add the DVD version?

Hmmm, that's interesting. I just tried it, and, sure enough, I can't switch the format for some reason. Other titles have the drop-down menu to switch, but not Mad Men, and I tried Seasons 1 and 2.

I wonder if it has something to do with the number of discs they have. Does the DVD version come on more/fewer discs?

I hope this is the right place to ask this question - a search didn't turn up an answer.
I'm hard of hearing and need subtitles or captions. I don't have a Netflix account, but just got a Panny BD player with access to Amazon VOD. I was wondering if there is any way to get streamed video from Amazon (or Netflix) with subtitles/captions ?

Neither service supports closed captioning at this time. Netflix, at least, has said that they're working on it, but even after they get that working, it will then require their suppliers to start using it. You can see on Hulu (where closed captioning support is available) that only a very very small percentage of titles have closed captions. I fear that until the regulations are changed we won't see a significant amount of accommodation for the hearing impaired coming from Internet video distribution, and even after the regulations are changed, there is usually a four year period before such regulations come into full force.

Neither service supports closed captioning at this time. Netflix, at least, has said that they're working on it, but even after they get that working, it will then require their suppliers to start using it. You can see on Hulu (where closed captioning support is available) that only a very very small percentage of titles have closed captions. I fear that until the regulations are changed we won't see a significant amount of accommodation for the hearing impaired coming from Internet video distribution, and even after the regulations are changed, there is usually a four year period before such regulations come into full force.
Thanks for your reply, even though it wasn't good news. Pretty much what I expected, though.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/02/AR2009100205630.html

The end of Saturday mail delivery in 2011 will end the economic viability of Netflix.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/02/AR2009100205630.html

The end of Saturday mail delivery in 2011 will end the economic viability of Netflix.

I doubt it. We'll see.

-Bill

The end of Saturday mail delivery in 2011 will end the economic viability of Netflix.

They've been talking about ending Saturday Delivery for years now...we'll see if it actually happens in 2011 or not.

If it does, I somehow doubt that it would going "end the economic viability of Netflix" though.

While it's not good for Netflix (or Blockbuster), NF still has a lot going for it, not the least of which is their streaming market they've built up and into many many devices now.

So the rental market will break down into:
1) Netflix discs by mail and streaming
2) Blockbuser discs by mail and in-store exchanges
3) Redbox
4) Other B&Ms

Netflix still comes out on top (for me), followed closely by Redbox. Blockbuster screwed me enough they will not ever get a penny of my business again.

I will be curious if Saturday Delivery stops, what will happen. I doubt NF (or BB) will adjust prices to reflect the one less day of delivery, but maybe. Regardless, I'm sure people will initially be irritated and light up the interwebs with "I'm going to Blockbuster!" posts, but when the dust settles, Netflix will still be on top in my guesstimation.

Thankfully (for NF), they've been preparing the streaming market, and it's a huge boon/benefit for them. They're leaps and bounds ahead of the competition, and one less delivery day doesn't really affect me that much, since I'm just as happy streaming a movie if I don't have a disc at home. And I can adjust to shipping my movies back one day earlier if I want discs for the weekend.

The lack of Saturday pic-up and delivery will mean I can only get 2 DVDs a week with my Netflix plan instead of 4. That is no small matter or minor inconvenience.

My wife projects that one approach NF could use is bumping all the packages down one: So basically applying the 3 at-a-time price to a 4 at-a-time subscription.

Either that, or they could essentially directly address the issue by sending an "extra" disc on Wednesday or Thursday (your "weekend bonus disc"). You wouldn't get another disc until you return two discs (or, if you return one disc, you'll get another "weekend bonus disc" the next Wednesday or Thursday). So that will essentially give you an extra disc for half of each week.

I'm interested in how best to work with the Netflix "raters like you" algorithm.

It does fairly well at predicting my rating, but is sometimes off.

In understand how to work with the algorithm, and influence it to my advantage, it complicates things that its prediction is fractional, but I'm only allowed to give an exact number of stars. Ie. it predicts that raters like me gave something "4.4 stars." Let's say I watch this movie and think about my rating. Often I'll think, "Well, it was a little better than 4 stars and not quite 5 stars, so I would like to rate it 4.5." But I'm only allowed to choose 4 or 5.

Let's say that it predicts something will be 4.4, and after I watch it, I think to myself: "That was definitely a 3.8 and no higher." So I'll rate it 4. But I strongly disagree with a rating of 4.4. That is too high. So I would like to influence the algorithm to reduce the rating of such movies in the future.

Now, if I rate it 4, does it have any influence on the future behavior of the algorithm? Probably not. From Netflix's point of view, if they predict 4.4, and I rate it 4, they consider that a success. That's because 4.4 rounds down to 4.

So maybe I should rate such a movie 3, just to be sure it gets the point. That would be misrepresenting my opinion, but could be the best way to work with the system.

What if it predicts 4.6 and I rate it 4? Is that still a "success" from Netflix's point of view? 4.6 should round up to 5 which is not 4, but on the other hand this prediction thing is an inexact science, and Netflix's algorithm might consider 4.6 close enough to be a "hit", and exert no influence on future ratings.

So how best to influence the algorithm?

Or, should I not think in those terms at all? I could create a tangled web of lies if I deliberately misrepresent my rating in the hopes of influencing the algorithm, causing a degradation in future predictions.

You are thinking too hard and trying to force a program that tries to predict human opinion (which is in it's nature, completely unpredictable) to be accurate for every movie you watch.

It's just not going to happen.

That being said, I've rated about 3500 movies on Netflix, and I find it pretty accurate, give or take 1 star in most cases. That's acceptable for a program like this.

But I too wish I could rate movies at 1/2 increments, as I would probably rate things more things as 3.5 or 4.5.

You are thinking too hard


Huh, I guess the mathematicians who invented the statistical theory netflix uses were "thinking too hard."

The recent winners of the Netflix Competition were "thinking too hard."

What exactly do you have against thinking?

and trying to force a program

No, I said I was trying to "influence" it. I deliberately used the word "influence" rather than any word like "control" or "force."


that tries to predict human opinion (which is in it's nature, completely unpredictable) to be accurate for every movie you watch.

No, I'm trying to IMPROVE it; not expecting 100% accuracy.

LOL. Well forget I said anything then. Won't happen again.:rolleyes:

Put it this way: If you lie to the ratings algorythm, it'll "influence" it, sure. Probably make some things more accurate, while making other things less accurate. Just like if you weren't lying to it.

Put it this way: If you lie to the ratings algorythm, it'll "influence" it, sure. Probably make some things more accurate, while making other things less accurate. Just like if you weren't lying to it.

I agree that's a possibility. Or not; it might work to "lie". Wondering if anyone else has thought about it.

EDIT: let me just add that some people who are good at thinking, and were also bullied around in school as "nerds", don't react too well when they are told they are "thinking too hard."

At the risk of offending you again, here's a couple suggestions:

1) How many movies have your rated? I spent a few hours going through and rating pretty much anything I've ever seen. You can see how many you've rated under your account profile (rating history).

2) Have your filled out your taste preferences? All of them? There's quite a few pages: http://www.netflix.com/TastePreferences

This would be a pain, but if you really want to try to influence it, click on "Movies you'll Heart" on the top row, then you can click on those titles and see a "Why Is This Recommended" category with things you've rated. For example, mine is recommending The Wire Season 1 because I rated some other movies as 5 and 4 stars (Once Upon a Time in the West, Arrested Development, No Country For Old Men, City of God, Miller's Crossing). I suppose you could write those titles, then watch the recommendation, then go back and change those ratings up or down.

Or if you find it's consistently recommending a certain genre too high (like animation for instance), you could go change those ratings, or go into your taste preferences (see above) and try to influence it that way.

Come to think of it, I did have an issue once where it kept recommending all these musicals (probably because the few I did watch, like Wizard of Oz, Moulin Rouge, Phantom of the Opera, Spinal Tap, Rocky Horror, and The Wall all rated high). I went into my taste preferences and changed anything about musicals around a bit to influence it that way and the problem went away.

That's probably not really what you're looking for, but I much prefer my star rating be as accurate as possible for when I go back through my rating history and stuff (I'd rather not get wrapped up in the "web of lies" you mentioned and be able to remember what I actually rated/thought of the movie).

Thanks. Those are some good ideas. I have rated pretty much everything I've seen, at least seen recently enough to remember. About 400 films and TV shows I think.

I find a difficulty in rating TV shows. Many TV shows are really good for TV shows but usually can't compare to the writing of a major movie. I would rate them 5 stars if we were just talking about TV shows, but more like 3 or 4 stars if we are talking about an absolute scale that includes every form of media. Don't get me wrong. I like a good TV show. So I would like the system to recommend TV shows to me. I don't know whether I'll get the best results with a 5 star rating or 3 star rating.

Now, this is "thinking hard" again, but if you think about it, Netflix is saying that "raters like me" gave a certain rating---which means it tries to identify who is like me. So with regard to TV shows, what I need to do is match the rating that people like me are giving. I don't know what that is, however.

This gets into the statistical algorithm: there is another difficulty with the algorithm itself, which is that some people may think alike, but "scale" their ratings differently. What I mean is that two people may rank movies from bad to good in a similar way, but person A uses mainly 2 to 5 stars (reserving 1 star for very unusual movies) while person B uses mainly 1 to 4 stars (reversing 5 stars for the very tiny cream). They agree on the ranking---they just choose to represent their opinion with a different number of stars. If Netflix could identify patterns like that, it would improve their algorithm. But that may be a statistical impossibility because it relies too much on individual mindset.

But, notice that _I_ have some influence by choosing how to scale my ratings, and if I can most closely approximate the behavior of people who really have my mindset, then I will get better results.

So you can see that we have a situation where I am not lying---it is absolutely clear how I rank movies from bad to good---but I still have a choice over how I represent the rating that will influence the algorithm.

On the other hand, your suggestions are practical and may improve the results. I haven't filled out the preference forms.

EDIT: let me just add that some people who are good at thinking, and were also bullied around in school as "nerds", don't react too well when they are told they are "thinking too hard."Even if it's true. :)

Post the algorithm here so we can analyze it, or you'll have to rely on empirical observation.

I have a RedBox question. I haven't used the kiosks for like 6 months, but they put one in literally 100 feet out of my way now on the drive home.

So I went to the site (which I have not used before) to reserve a movie, and they want to charge me $2 for it. It's a normal DVD (not Blu-ray or anything)

Isn't everything $1? Why is the online site charging me $2?

Not sure. I just tried it and they state it's $1.10 (the dime is for CA sales tax.)

I have a RedBox question. I haven't used the kiosks for like 6 months, but they put one in literally 100 feet out of my way now on the drive home.

So I went to the site (which I have not used before) to reserve a movie, and they want to charge me $2 for it. It's a normal DVD (not Blu-ray or anything)

Isn't everything $1? Why is the online site charging me $2?

It's been a week or two but it was still $1 at my site recently, and I don't see anything on the main web page about an increase.

You should contact them and ask what's up.

[EDIT: I see you were talking about online reservations. Should be the same].

-Bill

Ok, so I didn't reserve online and just went to the store and it was also $2 ($2.12 after our sales tax).

What up with that? I got one anyways because my kid is sick and wanted to watch Monsters vs. Aliens.

EDIT: I've checked about 10 locations in my area on their website (for different titles), and they all come up as $2 for the first night's rental, $1 for each additional night.

I have contacted their support.

**groan**

Just got off the phone and was told by "Phyllis" that they are raising prices nationwide, and my area lucks out to be an early adopter. She said they are "starting with PA" so I checked a couple other areas on other sides of the state and they are still $1.

I told her maybe they shouldn't advertise $1 prices on the website, the media, and on the FRONT OF THE FREAKING KIOSK if they're $2.

Guess I should start a b*tch and moan thread somewhere....

Well, that really bites.

Have the other kiosks gone up? We have DVDXpress and DVDPlay out here. Neither has the selection of Redbox (DVDXpress is particularly slim on the pickings) but I think they're still a dollar.

Could someone clarify? or post a link to an official statement? Is Redbox actually doubling their prices nationwide?

Could someone clarify? or post a link to an official statement? Is Redbox actually doubling their prices nationwide?

Info here (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/59145).

Known far and wide for its $1-a-night DVD rentals, the red-hot kiosk company is reportedly testing some new—and higher—pricing schemes, including $2 first-night rentals in one market and $1.50/night rentals in another.

Video Business reports that Redbox is following through with an earlier promise to try out some "different DVD pricing models," starting in a pair of markets: Harrisburg, Penn., and Albuquerque, New Mexico.

So here's the deal, according to Video Business: In Harrisburg, Redbox kiosk rentals will now cost you two bucks for the first night, then a buck a night (as usual) after that. For those of you in Albuquerque, rental prices are going up to $1.50 a night, period.

It's not clear for how long these pilot programs will last, or if (and when) they'll spread to other markets. I've reached out to Redbox corporate for answers to those questions.

With more than 18,000 kiosk locations coast-to-coast, Redbox has become incredibly popular thanks (in part, anyway) to its cheap, ever-so-simple pricing policy: DVD rentals for a buck a night, including the latest releases.

Of course, that policy has also gotten Redbox in hot water with some Hollywood studio executives, who feel that their new release DVDs are being "devalued" at $1 a night. Redbox has filed lawsuits against three movie studios—Universal, Fox, and Warner Brothers—who are refusing to distribute wholesale DVDs to Redbox until a month or so after they go on sale in retail stores.

So here's the question: Why is Redbox thinking about raising its prices? Is it bowing to pressure from the suits in Hollywood, who don't like the idea of "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" renting for just a buck a night as a new release? Is Redbox simply looking for a "bigger revenue stream," as they say in homevid circles? Questions, questions.

While we wait for some answers, I have a question for you Redbox aficionados out there: Would you keep renting movies from the big red kiosks if Redbox raised its DVD rental prices for $2 for the first night, or $1.50 every night?

Update: I just heard back from Redbox's PR department with answers to some of my questions ...

Q: Any idea how long these pilot programs will last?
A: No definitive end date has been set. We plan to continue the test until we can understand the implications.

Q: Could these pilot programs spread to other markets?
A: Currently, Redbox does not have plans to expand the test or to make any permanent price changes.

Q: Loyal Redboxers will be understandably upset at the prospect of higher rental prices. Should they be worried?
A: Consumer response is a key element of the test. Our customers are our first priority.

Q: Are these tests in any way related to the demands from studios that Redbox charge higher prices for their new DVD releases, i.e. is Redbox bowing to pressure from Hollywood?
A: Redbox conducts tests on an ongoing basis as part of our regular course of business. We currently have no plans to permanently change our pricing.

The core question is whether Redbox is making a reasonable profit (defined by a typical investor) via their current pricing model, or if, instead, they're engaging in predatory pricing. These pilot pricing changes tend to make it appear that they believe that they'll be found to be engaging in predatory pricing, and so they are probably seeking ways to diffuse those accusations by bringing their pricing model more in line with their cost structure. If they can show their partner-suppliers that they're making a reasonable profit, at least against operating expenses (i.e., not including capital expenditures), that will scuttle any possible actions that may perhaps have been taking against them.

So here's the deal, according to Video Business: In Harrisburg, Redbox kiosk rentals will now cost you two bucks for the first night, then a buck a night (as usual) after that. For those of you in Albuquerque, rental prices are going up to $1.50 a night, period.


That would explain my earlier complaints. Love being the "target market" for this (I'm in the Harrisburg area).

FWIW, this is the response I got back from customer service when I inquired about why they advertise $1 everywhere (including the front of the kiosk itself) but I'm getting charged $2:


Hello,

Thank you for your email. Redbox is currently testing price points in select markets. The test will allow us to assess the impact of price on our business. Redbox is committed to preserving the value and convenience of the Redbox brand. The markets were selected based on a variety of factors including market demographics and number of machines.

If you have any additional questions, comments, or concerns, please let us know and anyone in customer service would be more than happy to assist you.
Thank you,
-Sarinthia
Redbox Customer Care
1.866.REDBOX3
www.redbox.com

They're still a dollar here, and they opened one a lot closer to me. :) I'll probably still use it as long as it undercuts Blockbuster by a few.

OK, I'm fed up with Netflix always skipping my top 5-7 picks because they are long wait or very long wait. I've decided to only have movies in my Q with long or very long wait.

I think a couple different outcomes are possible.

1) they ship my first movie in my Q regardless of wait time as soon as they get my return.

2)they ship nothing for a while because of the wait times (which I will promptly call and complain about)

3) they ship out some movie other than my top choice from my q that kmay have a shorter wait time.

I'll report back my findings.

Playing chicken with an automated system doesn't sound like a productive exercise.

Playing chicken with an automated system doesn't sound like a productive exercise.

Your opinion has been noted

Why have you labeled my experiment "playing chicken"

What's the worst that could happen? My dvd would ship out late? I'm in control of when/if I decide to put movies back on there that have no wait.

And in the process I will learn more about how netflix works. From my perspective it seems like a valueable experiment to learn more of how the automated system works under different conditions. To me, learning is a productive exercise.

Do you not have the desire to learn about products and services that you pay for and experience unknowns about?

Your opinion has been notedAre you saying that playing chicken with an automated system is a productive exercise? (Because all I said was "Playing chicken with an automated system doesn't sound like a productive exercise.")

Why have you labeled my experiment "playing chicken"I was careful not to do direct labeling. I made a general comment about how folks choose to interact with Netflix. I prefer to let the statement stand as a general observation about interacting with Netflix, rather than getting into a pointless "yes it is" "not it isn't" back-and-forth.

Are you saying that playing chicken with an automated system is a productive exercise? (Because all I said was "Playing chicken with an automated system doesn't sound like a productive exercise.")

I was careful not to do direct labeling. I made a general comment about how folks choose to interact with Netflix. I prefer to let the statement stand as a general observation about interacting with Netflix, rather than getting into a pointless "yes it is" "not it isn't" back-and-forth.

Ok, not sure what you mean by your generalization about playing chicken or how it pertains to testing different variables in order to maximize one's results from what Netflix tells us is an automated system.

The reason i have posted this is because I had searched thru this post and not found many conclusive answers about how the system worked when no available disks were on a specific Queue.

If you do have conclusive answers pertaining to how netflix reacts to the situations I have suggested, wouldn't it be more productive to inform me based on your experience rather than making general statements opposing my experiments without pointing me towards actual findings/results from others interactions with netflix?

I'm posting here to learn and spread my actual findings.

If you keep renting "hot" discs and try to get X per week, where X is your number out at a time (your plan), Netflix will throttle you. Let it go a week or two and you'll see the wait times change. The only way you'll get Netflix to keep sending discs as soon as you return them is to have "cold" discs in your queue.

larry

If you keep renting "hot" discs and try to get X per week, where X is your number out at a time (your plan), Netflix will throttle you. Let it go a week or two and you'll see the wait times change. The only way you'll get Netflix to keep sending discs as soon as you return them is to have "cold" discs in your queue.

larry

Hey Larry, to this point I have always kept "cold" discs in my Q and frequently get sent them. I may get my top pick (or any disc with a wait) once a month if I am lucky.

What I don't understand is, no matter how long I have a disc at the top of my Q, I never get new releases within what seems like a reasonable amount of time after they come out. Who is actually getting the new releases? I put a movie at the top of my Q as soon as it's availability is listed and keep it there till it actually comes out. How could I be that far back in line. Netflix certanally can be a frustrating service.

Could you please elaborate on your Netflix throttling theory?

Are you saying that if you have all "hot" movies in your Q, netflix will not send you a new disc when they get your return, but the more days they make you wait movieless, the more they accelerate you to the top of the waitlist for your number 1 movie pick?

What I don't understand is, no matter how long I have a disc at the top of my Q, I never get new releases within what seems like a reasonable amount of time after they come out. Who is actually getting the new releases? I put a movie at the top of my Q as soon as it's availability is listed and keep it there till it actually comes out. How could I be that far back in line. Netflix certanally can be a frustrating service.

Part of who gets preference over the "hot" discs is the type of plan you have, i.e., how many discs out. I remember someone here used to work for Netflix and he said that if you're a 5-out-unlimited customer (or whatever the upper end is now) and you're competing against a 1-out-2-disc-per-month customer, that guy will get it first.

While it seems a bit counterintuitive, like, why should you have to wait if you're paying way more money, but if you think about it, the lesser plan guys could be waiting a very long time if they're losing out to the higher plan guys, whereas the higher plan guys by virtue of having more discs sent out should have a decent shot at getting a preferred disc, provided it's kept at the top of the queue.

Your mileage may vary, though, and I'm not sure how the throttling works into the equation.

I think the protocol isn't the way you've described, i.e., that 5-out-unlimited customers have lower priority than 1-out-2-disc-per-month customers. Rather, I believe the protocol is that everyone has equal priority for getting new releases within a month. So if everyone had the same queues, everyone would get X new releases per month -- let's say "three". Now, effectively, that means that the 5-at-a-time customer is going to get a smaller percentage of new releases, but probably the same number of new releases, within a month. It just seems so much "worse' to the 5-at-a-time customer, because they necessarily are receiving so many more discs that are lower in their queue.

Round 1 results:

Blu Ray returned today, only had "wait" movies in Q
Netflix skipped first one and second ones with very long wait and shipped third disk with short wait.

So far, I would call this a success.

Additional results will be posted as they arrive.

I think the protocol isn't the way you've described, i.e., that 5-out-unlimited customers have lower priority than 1-out-2-disc-per-month customers. Rather, I believe the protocol is that everyone has equal priority for getting new releases within a month. So if everyone had the same queues, everyone would get X new releases per month -- let's say "three". Now, effectively, that means that the 5-at-a-time customer is going to get a smaller percentage of new releases, but probably the same number of new releases, within a month. It just seems so much "worse' to the 5-at-a-time customer, because they necessarily are receiving so many more discs that are lower in their queue.

It could be that way.

I only know that what I posted is what I've heard from one Netflix employee (a CS rep) and was told by a former higher up that they do assign priority to certain plans (although he didn't go into detail and I didn't ask at the time.) Whatever it is, I do think they try to structure it in a way that the hot items get distributed as best they can, and a lot of it is simply too many people and not enough discs.

It's not just Netflix, either. I had a heck of a time trying to find a couple new releases today from Redbox. District 9 just got released, and lo and behold, not many kiosks have it available right now (although almost all HAD it at one point between yesterday and now.)

I am thinking of taking the Blockbuster 4 week online trial. Terms state the trial is 3 dvds at a time (includes BD) by mail plus 5 in store exchanges.

I WILL NOT be joining after my trial so the idea is to rent as much as I can in that 4 week period.

Any opinions whether it is worth my time and information to get the 4 weeks and then cancel? My main concern is whether I can receive/watch a decent number of dvd/bd titles in that time frame based upon their system.

Doh! I accidentally sent back my personal Blu-ray of Soundstage:Tom Petty instead of Memento! I realized this after about 3-4 weeks.

I called Netflix up and they said that it becomes inventory and there is no possible way for me to get my copy back.

They did however, offer me 9.99 discount for my next month.

This really blows! I was thinking that I would just rent out a Blu-ray of Soundstage: tom Petty and then just keep it and return Memento but Netflix doesnt offer up a Blu-ray version!

This sucks.

They also didnt even say that I had to return Memento.

I would have thought that upon return they would have realized that I returned the wrong disc, put it in a discard bin and contact me or just leave it there until someone claimed it.

This couldnt be the first time this has happened.

Doh! I accidentally sent back my personal Blu-ray of Soundstage:Tom Petty instead of Memento! I realized this after about 3-4 weeks.

I called Netflix up and they said that it becomes inventory and there is no possible way for me to get my copy back.

This really blows! I was thinking that I would just rent out a Blu-ray of Soundstage: tom Petty and then just keep it and return Memento but Netflix doesnt offer up a Blu-ray version!


Heh, they do now. That does blow, though.

Doh! I accidentally sent back my personal Blu-ray of Soundstage:Tom Petty instead of Memento! I realized this after about 3-4 weeks.

I called Netflix up and they said that it becomes inventory and there is no possible way for me to get my copy back.

...

I would have thought that upon return they would have realized that I returned the wrong disc, put it in a discard bin and contact me or just leave it there until someone claimed it.

This couldnt be the first time this has happened.

You might try calling again. My wife sent one of our personal discs back, and while it took a few weeks, we did get it back eventually.

For some reason I have stopped receiving check-in and mailing e-mails for the past couple days. Anyone else seeing this? Not a SPAM filter issue, since I use none.

For some reason I have stopped receiving check-in and mailing e-mails for the past couple days. Anyone else seeing this? Not a SPAM filter issue, since I use none.
I am pleased to report that Netflix has not done it to me. I put 2 discs in the mail yesterday and got an email today that Netflix had received them at 4:51 am. They then sent 2 replacements: BSG: The Miniseries, a new release, and the new Harry Potter, which had been showing "short wait." This week, at least, NF could not have treated me better.

I have received notices yesterday and today as well. Haven't noticed any "downtime" in my emails from them.

Round 1 results:
Blu Ray returned today, only had "wait" movies in Q
Netflix skipped first one and second ones with very long wait and shipped third disk with short wait.


FWIW, as a Netflix subscriber for 9 years, I'm almost always able to get "short wait" immediately. I would consider your true test to be a queue of only "long wait" and "very long wait". Good luck!

"Warner Bros. has struck a deal with Netflix Inc. whereby the fast-growing DVD subscription firm won't offer the studio's movies until 28 days after they go on sale. Had the deal been in effect last month, "The Hangover," which went on sale Dec. 15, wouldn't be available on Netflix until Jan. 14.

It's part of a strategy by several studios to create staggered releases of DVDs so that the most profitable transactions are available first and cheaper rental options take effect further down the road. The move could be copied by other studios, forcing consumers to wait nearly a month if they want to rent popular movies from Netflix.

"Within the home entertainment category, we're creating different times at which a product is available at different prices," said Kevin Tsujihara, Warner Bros.' home entertainment president.

The studio is hoping that the four-week window will push consumers interested in watching movies at home to buy the DVDs or pay a premium to rent them from stores like Blockbuster or from Internet and cable video-on-demand services. Warner Bros. already imposes a 28-day window on $1-a-night kiosk firm Redbox."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-fi-ct-netflix7-2010jan07,0,1274971.story

I wish we could get Netflix easily here in Canada but most Canadian sold BD players have been stripped of that feature. Similar to Divx, it's only available on higher end models. Sad...

Warner Bros. requiring Netflix to delay movie releases 28 daysGlad to see at least one news story with the headline placing responsibility responsibly.

I mentioned this a while back, but it's getting worse. I'm seeing more and more shows where I'm not allowed to select DVD's from Netflix. It's Blu-Ray only. Am I being "punished" for paying extra to have the Blu-Ray option?

If anyone could check this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. If you DON'T have access to Blu-ray on your Netflix account, could you check and see if "Mad Men Season 1" is available to you on DVD?

Thanks,

If anyone could check this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. If you DON'T have access to Blu-ray on your Netflix account, could you check and see if "Mad Men Season 1" is available to you on DVD?

Thanks,

Yup. Its in my queue "available now" on DVD. Still about five or six movies back, but its there and ready. I have BR access, but its a DVD tile only on Netflix (as are about half of my queue).

^^^ Me too. I have BD access and I only can select the DVDs.
larry

This is going to be confusing, but I had a similar (but different) issue with Dexter Season 3. I will try to explain....I have 3-at-at a time plan, with 2 profiles (mine is the primary and my wife's is the sub-profile).

Dexter season 3 is on 3 discs. So I put disc 1 on my wife's profile and discs 2 and 3 on my profile in order to get them all for the weekend.

Disc 1 (which was in my wife's queue) was DVD only (could not select the Blu-Ray). Meanwhile discs 2 and 3 (in my queue) were Blu-Rays.

You would think I could live with it, but it turns out the DVD (disc 1) only has 3 eps on it, while the Blu-Ray (disc 1) has 4. So now we had disc 1 DVD at home with eps 1-3, and disc 2 Blu-Ray with eps 5-8, but still missing episode 4.

That's it simplified. Here's what actually happened and what I had to do.

Day 1:

Got disc 1 on DVD, disc 2 on Blu-Ray
Disc 2 (BD) was cracked (:rolleyes:). Reported it damaged.

Day 2:

Ship disc 2 back.
Replacement disc 2 ships
Disc 3 ships
Realize DVD only has 3 eps on it. Dammit.


At this point I have disc 1 on DVD (from wife's profile) and 2 blu-rays shipping from my profile which is 3 discs and all I can get. How am I going to get Disc 1 on Blu-Ray to watch the missing episode?

Well, I have to reallocate my DVDs to ship 0 from my wife's profile and 3 from mine (in order to get Disc 1, on Blu-Ray, from my profile). Keep in mind I can't get the Blu-Ray from my wife's profile because it only comes up DVD.

They of course won't ship me disc 1 from my queue until they get disc 1 from my wife's queue back.

Day 3:

Ship Disc 1 DVD back
Replacement Disc 2 arrives. Not cracked (yippee-skippy!)
Disc 3 arrives. Cracked of course because Blu-Ray pisses me off and well over 1/2 of them arrive cracked and unplayable :rolleyes: Glad they have that hard coating.
Report Disc 3 damaged.

Day 4:

Mail back cracked Disc 3
NF receives Disc 1 on DVD
Disc 1 on Blu-Ray ships
Replacement Disc 3 on Blu-Ray ships


So right now I actually have disc 2 at home and it's not cracked.

Tomorrow I should get disc 1 on Blu-Ray and my replacement disc 3.

Anyone want to take a bet on whether or not disc 1 and disc 3 arrive uncracked? Because it would be the first time in 2 months I got two discs in a row that weren't cracked.

It definitely shouldn't be taking me this long just to get Dexter at home :(

Anyone want to take a bet on whether or not disc 1 and disc 3 arrive uncracked? Because it would be the first time in 2 months I got two discs in a row that weren't cracked.

Wow, you must have pissed off your mailman. I've never gotten a cracked Blu-Ray, and haven't had a cracked DVD in over a year.

Wow, you must have pissed off your mailman. I've never gotten a cracked Blu-Ray, and haven't had a cracked DVD in over a year.

It's a Blu-Ray/Post office sorting machine problem. It's all over the interwebz (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cracked+blu-ray+from+netflix) but only affecting certain areas. Supposedly Netflix is working with the problem PO's on it, but I've been dealing with it for since about May now, give or take.

Never had a cracked DVD. Unfortunately it seems Blu-Ray is a bit more sensitive to the sorting machines.

Here's what the crack on every one of the ones I've gotten looks like. Always about 1/4 inch long right on the edge:

http://marsbox.com/images/stories/2007/09/netflix-cracked-blu-ray.jpg

The first time I got one I figured "what the heck...I'll put in my PS3 and see if it'll play." Bad idea, as my PS3 made the most God-awful sound for about 3 minutes before finally kicking it back out to me.

What makes me mad is I pay $2 extra month for it and get roughly half the movies I would be if I'd just settle for the DVDs. Plus I get to hear the wife bitch about Blu-Ray everytime we get a cracked disc. **sigh**

FWIW I have received 17 cracked ones since Thanksgiving (84 total in 2009). That's a lot of damaged discs.

And YES!

Disc 3 is cracked. And yep, that's my replacement for the first one I got that was cracked.

Disc 1 did not arrive as scheduled. I wonder if it will come tomorrow, and more importantly, will it be cracked? Chances are looking good.

2 weeks into trying to watch Dexter, and I've managed to see 3 episodes on a DVD, and managed to get one uncracked Blu-Ray (Disc 2). Also have received 3 cracked Blu-Rays now. It should be more of a pain in the ass to watch a 3 disc series. :mad:

So here's what I got now:

Disc 1 DVD (which only has 3 eps so it's missing an episode that's on disc 1 of the Blu-Ray)
Disc 1 Blu-Ray (currently 1 day late since I always get shipments the day after)
Disc 2 Blu-Ray (1 cracked, replacement was good)
Disc 3 Blu-Ray (2 cracked, replacement should be here Thursday, I hope)


Jesus...if Disc 1 shows up tomorrow and it's cracked, I won't have a replacement for that until Friday. Good grief. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it somehow makes it from the Netflix shipping facility that's 3 miles away to my house unscathed. I know it's asking a lot....

I know nobody cares, but it feels good to vent.

^^^
I don't blame you for venting!!! All those cracked discs are unacceptable!
I don't mean to make you feel any worse, but in almost 10 years of Netflix rentals averaging two discs per week, (both DVD and BD), I have never had a single cracked disc. Is it really the PO that makes all the difference?

^^^
I don't blame you for venting!!! All those cracked discs are unacceptable!
I don't mean to make you feel any worse, but in almost 10 years of Netflix rentals averaging two discs per week, (both DVD and BD), I have never had a single cracked disc. Is it really the PO that makes all the difference?

Supposedly. Of course, it is my opinion that if you ship something in a package (or envelope), it should be able to survive the shipping process. You know, if I ship a crystal vase but just toss it in a box with no padding, it's not really the PO's fault when it arrive's broken.

But I understand that an envelope redesign would be expensive, add to the shipping costs, and obviously be passed onto us, the consumer. As much as I love the Blu-Ray quality, I do feel the whole "more durable than DVD" is true only in scratches, but apparently a lie when it comes to sorting machines. Again, I have never received a cracked DVD (a couple scratched/unplayable ones, but no cracks)

Of course, everyone is already paying extra money to buy new Blu-Ray discs because of areas like mine that apparently are having huge issues (I alone reported 84 cracked Blu-Rays in 2009, which can't be cheap to replace, even with their "specialty pricing" they get....I'm sure my subscription fees for the year didn't even cover the cost of replacing them). It's not like I've noticed a decrease in wait times since the price increase so I have assumed they are just replacing the damaged ones with the extra money. I could be wrong in my assumption though, as I'm sure YMMV on wait times.

Of course, at this point, I would be willing to pay an extra $2/month just to get an envelope redesign to be able to get playable discs.

BTW, disc 1 did finally arrive uncracked so I was able to watch the 4th episode that wasn't on the DVD version. My 3rd attempt at a playable Disc 3 should come today.

Final thought: As Blu-Ray becomes more and more popular, obviously this is going to get more and more expensive for Netflix (if they can't get these issues resolved) so maybe it's just a matter of time before an envelope redesign becomes more cost-effective for them than replacing discs all the time. Or maybe they'll just nail us with another price increase for Blu-Ray.

Supposedly. Of course, it is my opinion that if you ship something in a package (or envelope), it should be able to survive the shipping process. You know, if I ship a crystal vase but just toss it in a box with no padding, it's not really the PO's fault when it arrive's broken. But I understand that an envelope redesign would be expensive, add to the shipping costs, and obviously be passed onto us, the consumer.Absolutely: I don't want to pay the price that would be reasonable to charge to reflect Netflix packaging discs so that they practically never break in transit. I would rather pay the much lower price that they're charging now, and take the risk.

Absolutely: I don't want to pay the price that would be reasonable to charge to reflect Netflix packaging discs so that they practically never break in transit. I would rather pay the much lower price that they're charging now, and take the risk.

meh....if you were getting about 60-70% cracked Blu-Rays (like me!) you might think differently. I'd pay more to get playable discs, but I also realize areas like mine are the exception rather than the rule and it would be "punishing the many to satisfy the needs of a few" to do a redesign and raise the cost across the board. Like I said, maybe someday it will be cost effective for them to do the redesign rather than replacing hundreds of discs, but apparently hasn't gotten to that point yet.

For now I am just dealing with it, reporting all the broken discs, talking with the Netflix rep, and PO rep and trying to get it fixed. And of course complaining here in this thread ;)

meh....if you were getting about 60-70% cracked Blu-Rays (like me!) you might think differently. I'd pay more to get playable discs, but I also realize areas like mine are the exception rather than the rule and it would be "punishing the many to satisfy the needs of a few" to do a redesign and raise the cost across the board. Absolutely on-target. This is a mass-market service, so it will be crafted based on mass-market considerations, such as the effect of any service characteristic on the preponderance of customers, not individual customers.

Like I said, maybe someday it will be cost effective for them to do the redesign rather than replacing hundreds of discs, but apparently hasn't gotten to that point yet.I think the trend is actually in the other direction: Disc replacement, itself, is probably very inexpensive, and perhaps getting less expensive. And the cost for more robust packaging and for the cost of shipping such redesigned packaging is probably trending up, like all material costs and costs for services requiring human action, such as parcel delivery service.

Yay...disc 3 finally showed up not cracked.

Only took two weeks, a DVD, 3 cracked blu-rays, and more patience than I have, but I can finally watch Dexter.

**leaves work early**

Anyone else get a email about a price increase of $1 a month from blockbuster?

Im thinking about giving one of these a go. I will use them exclusively for renting Blu Ray movies, so the primary concern is getting those in a timely fashion. I have a PS3 so if I went with Netflix I would also take advantage of the streaming service. One thing tat really bakes my about netflix is that they charge you more if you want Blu Ray. So from your experience which one has the best availability of Blu Rays and not long waits, my main concern is waith times, Ive heard all kinds of story's of people waiting months for certain movie on Blu Ray. Also which service provides the discs in the best condition. Ive heard thing about people getting scratched and broken discs also.

Im thinking about giving one of these a go. I will use them exclusively for renting Blu Ray movies, so the primary concern is getting those in a timely fashion. I have a PS3 so if I went with Netflix I would also take advantage of the streaming service. One thing tat really bakes my about netflix is that they charge you more if you want Blu Ray. So from your experience which one has the best availability of Blu Rays and not long waits, my main concern is waith times, Ive heard all kinds of story's of people waiting months for certain movie on Blu Ray. Also which service provides the discs in the best condition. Ive heard thing about people getting scratched and broken discs also.
I tried by-mail memberships for both netflix and BB, but found each one lacking. I suggest you do what I do, I go to the BB store and rent the BluRays on the day they are released (Tuesdays). Works like a charm. ;-)

I tried by-mail memberships for both netflix and BB, but found each one lacking. I suggest you do what I do, I go to the BB store and rent the BluRays on the day they are released (Tuesdays). Works like a charm. ;-)
I have been very pleased with Netflix ever since I shifted to them from Blockbuster about 7 months ago. I would NEVER rent a new release from a BB store, though. Five bucks a pop for new releases is too expensive for those of us who are interested in seeing enough movies in a month to make a BB or NF subscription worthwhile. So far, I have paid NF a total of $110.50 for 66 discs, most of them BDs. Do the math.

With BB, you can watch a mailer disc, go in on Tuesday and trade it for a new release that just came out that day...

I tried by-mail memberships for both netflix and BB, but found each one lacking. I suggest you do what I do, I go to the BB store and rent the BluRays on the day they are released (Tuesdays). Works like a charm. ;-)

I live in NW Kansas. The nearest BB store is most likely bare minimum 2 hours away. I know for a fact there isn't one within 30 minutes. Renting at BB is not an option. But if that's really the way it is I may just buy the movies I want to see.

I live in NW Kansas. The nearest BB store is most likely bare minimum 2 hours away. I know for a fact there isn't one within 30 minutes. Renting at BB is not an option.
That's too bad. Been a great way for me to get the latest, greatest Blu Ray, plus you get to hang on to it for several weeks at no extra charge and without concern for getting fast turnaround (NF and BB online subscribers will know what I mean ;-P ).

I have been very pleased with Netflix ever since I shifted to them from Blockbuster about 7 months ago. I would NEVER rent a new release from a BB store, though. Five bucks a pop for new releases is too expensive for those of us who are interested in seeing enough movies in a month to make a BB or NF subscription worthwhile. So far, I have paid NF a total of $110.50 for 66 discs, most of them BDs. Do the math.
Glad you like it and to each his own. I was responding to the poster's query about obtaining new release Blu Rays without getting stuck in a long wait on a queue, not what is the cheapest option. My trials and tribulations with NF and BB subscriptions are well documented on this thread from a year or two or three ago. And the prices were quite a bit better back then. I'm quite glad I got off the turnaround treadmill. :eek:

We can expect to see new release availability for rental become less and less common. As discussed already earlier in the thread, projections by distributors is that they shall make more money if they don't provide discounts on discs purchased for rental until after a month or so of the discs being available for retail sale, and so that projection will have its way with the market.

That's too bad. Been a great way for me to get the latest, greatest Blu Ray, plus you get to hang on to it for several weeks at no extra charge and without concern for getting fast turnaround (NF and BB online subscribers will know what I mean ;-P ).



I know trust me if there was a B&M place near me where I could rent Blu Rays I would.

With BB, you can watch a mailer disc, go in on Tuesday and trade it for a new release that just came out that day...
The ability to exchange mail order discs at a BB store for a new release on a Tuesday is the best thing about BB. Indeed, that's why I subscribed for 13 months. Unfortunately, BB's service deteriorated markedly over the time I was a subscriber. For several months before the end, there would ALWAYS be a delay of several days between the time I returned one disc and received another. Then BB imposed an in store exchange limit of 5 discs per month and changed the rules to make in store exchange discs count against my 3 discs out at a time limit.

In stark contrast to BB's slow and deteriorating service, NF almost always gets replacement discs on the way to me the next day after I put return discs in the mail. Further, NF streaming has turned out to be a valuable adjunct to NF's service and it comes at no additional charge.

No service is perfect, of course, but NF has turned out to be much more satisfactory during the 7 months I have had it than BB was for the 13 months before that.

Then BB imposed an in store exchange limit of 5 discs per month and changed the rules to make in store exchange discs count against my 3 discs out at a time limit.


That's exactly what happened to me and that's when I left.


In stark contrast to BB's slow and deteriorating service, NF almost always gets replacement discs on the way to me the next day after I put return discs in the mail. Further, NF streaming has turned out to be a valuable adjunct to NF's service and it comes at no additional charge.

No service is perfect, of course, but NF has turned out to be much more satisfactory during the 7 months I have had it than BB was for the 13 months before that.

Pretty much my experience and thoughts as well, despite my cracked Blu-Ray problem I'm having.

Even with damaged discs though, they ship the replacement the next day after I report it. I got Zombieland on Tuesday (brand new release) and it was cracked but they shipped a replacement Wednesday (which arrived fine today on Thursday). I still don't quite get how they somehow have an extra Zombieland laying around for my replacement, because I'm sure that if I waited until today to add it to my queue, it would be in a Very Long Wait status for weeks. I'm guessing they hold some back for exactly this problem (since if they did not ship me a replacement the next day, I would be gone to another service)

Even with damaged discs though, they [Netflix] ship the replacement the next day after I report it. I got Zombieland on Tuesday (brand new release) and it was cracked but they shipped a replacement Wednesday (which arrived fine today on Thursday). I still don't quite get how they somehow have an extra Zombieland laying around for my replacement, because I'm sure that if I waited until today to add it to my queue, it would be in a Very Long Wait status for weeks. I'm guessing they hold some back for exactly this problem (since if they did not ship me a replacement the next day, I would be gone to another service)
In my earlier post I forget to mention another aspect of NF's service that I like better than BB's. NF has a much larger selection of foreign movies and old classics than BB does. For example I watched the old British war movie, The Cruel Sea (1953), yesterday. It was the first time in many, many years I had seen it and I loved it. If I had still been a BB subscriber I couldn't have got it. I recently watched a terrific Dutch movie, Black Book (2007), directed by Paul Verhoeven. NF was able to send me the BD edition but BB offers only the DVD. And the beat goes on.

So I noticed recently that Netflix now has "STARZ Online" which is basically just like their "Instant Viewing" queue but geared towards STARZ movies and series.

It just so happened that I have been wanting to see one of those series ("Spartacus") but figured I'd have to wait for the DVD/BD release to do so. Happily surprised by this, I pulled down the Spartacus episode 1 for viewing last night.

PQ was solid, about what I expect for "instant" viewing, but the AQ was horrid. I had to turn up the volume to -10 (up from the normal "max" for weeknight viewing at -25) just to understand the dialogue. The background noise and sound FX were mostly non-existant.

Has anybody else had this experience with this Show, or other STARZ instant viewing on Netflix?

^^ Never noticed it on any of the StarzPlay titles. Let me check Spartacus.

** 2 minutes later **

Nope, sounds perfectly normal to me (using the 360).


I was interested in watching this, but I thought Spartacus would be like Dexter (where they only made the first ep of the season available), but I see there are 3 eps out now on the Instant queue. Guess I will watch them.

Thanks for checking. I'm watching on a wifi enabled Blu-Ray player. Never had any problems with the audio on previous instant viewings. Hopefully it was just this one instance.

That's exactly what happened to me and that's when I left.

I was grandfathered into the $19.99 for 3 at a time, unlimited exchanges, and one free game/movie coupon instore a month - and I STILL canceled after 5 years because I couldn't deal with the long long waits as well as the change in the policy of exchanges counting towards online "at a time." That was the law straw. I'm with Netflix now and their streaming is awesome - their shipping is fast, and the only complaint I have is their new releases are hard to get.

I was grandfathered into the $19.99 for 3 at a time, unlimited exchanges, and one free game/movie coupon instore a month - and I STILL canceled after 5 years because I couldn't deal with the long long waits as well as the change in the policy of exchanges counting towards online "at a time." That was the law straw. I'm with Netflix now and their streaming is awesome - their shipping is fast, and the only complaint I have is their new releases are hard to get.
I recently got an in store subscription at a BB store for one disc at a time with unlimited exchanges. The BB store is less than a 3 minute drive from me. At $23.86 a month, including tax, it is only $2.00 more expensive than my old 3 at a time mail order subscription was. I love it! I have been able to average almost a disc a day and have not missed a new release I wanted to see in the two and a half weeks I have had the subscription.

I still have a one disc at a time mail order subscription with NF, which includes the BD option. I kept it primarily in order to continue to have access to NF streaming and a bunch of old DVDs that aren't available anywhere else. This combination has given me so much to watch that I have cancelled both my HBO and Showtime subscription, which saves me almost as much a month as I am now paying at my nearby BB store.

I was grandfathered into the $19.99 for 3 at a time, unlimited exchanges, and one free game/movie coupon instore a month - and I STILL canceled after 5 years because I couldn't deal with the long long waits as well as the change in the policy of exchanges counting towards online "at a time." That was the law straw. I'm with Netflix now and their streaming is awesome - their shipping is fast, and the only complaint I have is their new releases are hard to get.

I have that same plan for $17.99.

For me it is great as there is a blockbuster on my way to work. The fact that I can get about 20 movies a month, including anything I want on blu ray makes BB a killer deal for me.

I added netflix $9.99 with streaming a few months go but quickly canceled. the streaming titles, were for me all ones I had long ago or ones I would never watch. Steaming is nice for kids titles since they watch them over and over, but only if you can't figure out how to use anydvd.
What I do with netflix is sign up once or twice a year for a month at a time to get the few titles blockbuster doesn't have (about four or five out of 200 rentals per year.) I have to admit when blockbuster a few years ago had a plan where you could rent from store two out for $20/month I was able to rent 300 movies in 6 months

With blockbuster I literally never miss a new release I want. Never. I just stop by on tuesday on the way home from work.

Everyone has preferences and proximity to local blockbuster makes a difference.

We can expect to see new release availability for rental become less and less common. As discussed already earlier in the thread, projections by distributors is that they shall make more money if they don't provide discounts on discs purchased for rental until after a month or so of the discs being available for retail sale, and so that projection will have its way with the market.
Nope. Opposite is true.
They have been talking about mechanisms to delay release, delay new release rental, and increase sales and vs rental for YEARS now, and time from theater to rental keeps decreasing.

There are so many forces working against any scheme to increase that window between release and rental.
Examples:
1) aging of marketing buzz. People remember marketing from a film that hit theaters a few months before, they forget it as time goes by.
2) competition from illicit sources. sure not the whole market supply but an ever increasing one.
3) relentless competition by other entertainment . the world is not made of feature films on dvd or vhs anymore. availability of alternate material is not trivial. I use my DVR to watch history channel discovery channel shows and that has eaten up my interest in feature films. I also watch more web based videos. time is finite.
There are more reasons not listed.
The studios have been fretting over this for years, and have tried all kinds of schemes -- but they can't stop the tide and the need to shorten the window between first release and dvd.

With blockbuster I literally never miss a new release I want. Never. I just stop by on tuesday on the way home from work.

Everyone has preferences and proximity to local blockbuster makes a difference.
Agreed. The value of a BB in store exchange plan is inversely proportional to one's proximity to the store. My BB is a less than a 3 minute drive away. Thus, I go there nearly every day, sometimes a couple of times a day, and get at least 30 movies a month. Better yet, as you noted, if I want a new release, I simply show up on the morning of the Tuesday it is released and i can be virtually guaranteed of getting it.

I was not grandfathered into BB's mail order plan, so I dropped it last year. Recently, however, I got a one at a time exchange plan at my neighborhood BB store, for $23.86 a month, including tax. That's a good deal but only because the place is so close I can get to it with essentially no wasted time.

Could this be the beginning of the end for Blockbuster?

"Blockbuster Inc. quietly unveiled a new rental policy on Mar. 1 that essentially brings back late fees.

Now customers pay $5 to rent a video for five days, instead of seven. After that, a fee of $1 a day is charged for up to 10 days when an auto-sell feature kicks in and the movie is automatically sold to the customer.
Blockbuster had gotten rid of late fees to compete with mail-order video rental firm Netxflix Inc.

The Dallas-based video rental firm made the new rules "to be consistent with the industry," said company spokeswoman Michelle Metzger. She said the dollar-a-day charge is not a late fee but an "additional daily fee," akin to keeping a rental car for longer than planned.

Coinstar Inc.'s RedBox, a DVD vending machine firm that like Netflix has been cutting into Blockbuster's market share, charges $1 a day for video rentals.

Blockbuster said last week it lost $435 million in the fiscal fourth quarter ended Jan. 3 as sales at stores open at least a year fell 15 percent. The company closed hundreds of stores in 2009 as it refocused on kiosks and a mail-order rental business."

http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/03/blockbuster-brings-back-late-fees.html

sounds like what they already started to do with games without telling anyone. btw, $9 a game for 5 days? WTF?

Could this be the beginning of the end for Blockbuster?

The "Beginning"????

The Beginning was well over a decade ago. They've been bleeding money, closing stores, and losing ground to Netflix (and Redbox and others) for years. BB is pretty much in the final gasps now....actually have been for awhile but they keep hanging in there.

It was just in the news last month that they're a billion in debt, closing another 500+ stores (I have no idea how many are left, but they are constantly closing hundreds of stores), and looking at selling it's international assets. They lost nearly 435 million last quarter, which is a typical quarter for them, so by my estimates they are losing about 1.5 - 2 billion each year.(source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100225/media_nm/us_blockbuster))

I would be very surprised if they're still in business a year from now. But I said that last year too :)

I kindof hope they hang on, because otherwise Netflix will be the only game in town for mail-order, and as much as I hate BB, competition is good.

The "Beginning"????

The Beginning was well over a decade ago. They've been bleeding money, closing stores, and losing ground to Netflix (and Redbox and others) for years. BB is pretty much in the final gasps now....actually have been for awhile but they keep hanging in there.

It was just in the news last month that they're a billion in debt, closing another 500+ stores (I have no idea how many are left, but they are constantly closing hundreds of stores), and looking at selling it's international assets. They lost nearly 435 million last quarter, which is a typical quarter for them, so by my estimates they are losing about 1.5 - 2 billion each year.(source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100225/media_nm/us_blockbuster))

I would be very surprised if they're still in business a year from now. But I said that last year too :)

I kindof hope they hang on, because otherwise Netflix will be the only game in town for mail-order, and as much as I hate BB, competition is good.
Yeah, BB has been in a lot of trouble for a long time, most of it brought on by BB's bad decisions. I gave up on their mail order service some time ago but recently got a 1 at a time in store exchange subscription at a nearby BB store, which has been excellent so far. These days, I don't miss seeing many new releases within the week of their release. Thus, like you, I hope that BB survives.

sounds like what they already started to do with games without telling anyone. btw, $9 a game for 5 days? WTF?

I agree it seems high. But remember that that's the price of a movie ticket these days, and if you have time you can completely beat most games in 5 days or less ($9 versus $60). There's always GameFly online game rental, like Netflix, for a monthly fee with no late charges...

I agree it seems high. But remember that that's the price of a movie ticket these days, and if you have time you can completely beat most games in 5 days or less ($9 versus $60). There's always GameFly online game rental, like Netflix, for a monthly fee with no late charges...

true, but they buy much much fewer games than movies. They can buy 5 copies of a game and rent it for 5 years easily. They don't need to charge $9 for 5 days, even though the games are 3X more expensive - they will rent each one way more than a movie disc.

Personally I don't have enough time in 5 days to beat a game usually. Especially longer 20-40 hour games. However, I have been thinking about Gamefly lately - I'm just worried it'll be like Netflix and after awhile I'll be fighting for and waiting for games for months. :(

Agreed. The value of a BB in store exchange plan is inversely proportional to one's proximity to the store. My BB is a less than a 3 minute drive away. Thus, I go there nearly every day, sometimes a couple of times a day, and get at least 30 movies a month. Better yet, as you noted, if I want a new release, I simply show up on the morning of the Tuesday it is released and i can be virtually guaranteed of getting it.

I was not grandfathered into BB's mail order plan, so I dropped it last year. Recently, however, I got a one at a time exchange plan at my neighborhood BB store, for $23.86 a month, including tax. That's a good deal but only because the place is so close I can get to it with essentially no wasted time.

yeah, and I understand I am one of the few that has escaped loss of my coupon workign for games as well.

My local store a few years ago had an instore three out exchange plan for $25/month. A number of people may have used this to get 90 movies per month while it lasted (about a year). :cool:

The "Beginning"????
The Beginning was well over a decade ago. They've been bleeding money, closing stores, and losing ground to Netflix (and Redbox and others) for years. BB is pretty much in the final gasps now....actually have been for awhile but they keep hanging in there.
I generally agree but all media delivery companies are doomed. Even Netflix. I would say surviving ten years since problems started is pretty good. I would also note that I have read that BB is going to fail "this year" for six years or more.

When I went to my local Hollywood Video today they didn't have ANY of the new releases for this week. They usually get them on Friday for the employees to preview but I was told no shipment came for this week. Hmm.....

A little update for those interested. I just came back from the store and learned that the manager had been told the store was closing on Monday and today he had just gotten a call it wasn't. The issue wasn't the bankruptcy but a lease issue which got resolved. Unfortunately he had already told a number of customers the store was closing and people had canceled their PowerPlay programs. He was in the process of taking down the BD disks and sending them back when he got the call. He had already sent back games.

Yeah, BB has been in a lot of trouble for a long time, most of it brought on by BB's bad decisions. I gave up on their mail order service some time ago but recently got a 1 at a time in store exchange subscription at a nearby BB store, which has been excellent so far. These days, I don't miss seeing many new releases within the week of their release. Thus, like you, I hope that BB survives.
I'd like to think that our recent discussion led you to consider getting your new releases in-store.:)
Conversely, your post made me realize I was better off with this plan as well and I thank you for that.
I hope BB stays afloat as long as possible.

I'd like to think that our recent discussion led you to consider getting your new releases in-store.:)
Conversely, your post made me realize I was better off with this plan as well and I thank you for that.
I hope BB stays afloat as long as possible.
I finally signed up for a BB in store subscription a couple of months ago but had been considering it for sometime. Shortly before I got the BB in store subscription, NF passed me over for a newly released BD because they had bought too few copies of it to satisfy the requests of even those few of us who had made sure that NF had a return disc in hand first thing on a Monday morning. This experience convinced me that, as good as NF is at some things, they simply couldn't be relied upon to get all, or even most, new releases to me in a timely manner. I then reduced my NF subscription from two BDs at a time to one. The BB store has its weaknesses, too, but at least they don't make me wait 28 days after a BD's release date before agreeing to give me a new Warner BD.

I should add that I had a BB mail order subscription for several years before I finally gave up on them and shifted to NF last year.

The competition between BB and NF keeps them both on their toes, so to speak. I don't understand people wanting BB to go under...

Rumor this morning is that HV/MG is closing all stores. Since they filed a second Chapter 11 in February there has been a dropoff in second tier titles which is one reason I liked to rent there but those studios understandably want their money up front.

Like others here I'm still like to walk into a store an find a title I "feel" like watching rather than having one sent through the mail out of sync with my mood. The only thing that will solve that problem is widespread VOD. Currently VOD is popular titles only which doesn't work for me.

Like others here I'm still like to walk into a store an find a title I "feel" like watching rather than having one sent through the mail out of sync with my mood. The only thing that will solve that problem is widespread VOD. Currently VOD is popular titles only which doesn't work for me.

And quality isn't always great. HD on demand is pretty good through my cable, and includes DD audio. But I wouldn't want to watch gimped HD movies that are more like DVD resolution with just 2-channel audio.

Are the ads about Sherlock Holmes accurate? I just saw a DirectV ad where they were saying that Holmes isn't available on Netflix or RedBox yet, and I've had the BB mail rental for a couple of days now but haven't gotten to it yet. The claim is still running on the BB Online page as well.

How long is the delay? Wierd they would have some kind of exclusive deal and yet be in some kind of business trouble. It's been in my queue since it was in the theaters so I really didn't even notice until it arrived.

Warner is holding back rental copies of new releases from certain companies such as NetFlix and Redbox for 28 days. I don't know why Blockbuster isn't part of it, unless they've decided to share rental revenues.

Here's some more info: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/warner/update-warner-takes-aim-redbox-netflix-16749

Warner is holding back rental copies of new releases from certain companies such as NetFlix and Redbox for 28 days. I don't know why Blockbuster isn't part of it, unless they've decided to share rental revenues.

Here's some more info: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/warner/update-warner-takes-aim-redbox-netflix-16749
Warner and Netflix have agreed to the 28 day delay for new releases (Warner). In return for agreeing to the 28 day delay, Netflix is to receive more streaming content at lower prices from Warner. Netflix will also receive from Warner more copies of new titles at lower prices as a result of the agreement.

has anyone noticed an up tick in Netflix Warner stream-able movies? I doubt it.

I failed to mention in my earlier post that Warner has made a separate deal with BB (http://www.thewrap.com/article/warner-gives-blockbuster-28-day-leg-15556). The agreement guarantees that Warner will not impose the delay on new releases that NF agreed to. I assume that Warner did this in order to try to keep NF's only serious competitor from going belly up.

I failed to mention in my earlier post that Warner has made a separate deal with BB (http://www.thewrap.com/article/warner-gives-blockbuster-28-day-leg-15556). The agreement guarantees that Warner will not impose the delay on new releases that NF agreed to. I assume that Warner did this in order to try to keep NF's only serious competitor from going belly up.

if the delay was on all of the services, it wouldn't make a difference. it wouldn't hurt BB. But it DOES benefit them now.

I've been thinking of joining Netflix and enjoying the streaming also. My internet speed is 7 Mbps. Is that fast enough? About how many movies are available in HD for streaming? Thanks.

I've been thinking of joining Netflix and enjoying the streaming also. My internet speed is 7 Mbps. Is that fast enough? About how many movies are available in HD for streaming? Thanks.
7Mbps should be fine for Netflix. Not too many movies and very few new releases but it's getting better. Amazon has almost all new releases.

So given all the talk in this thread back in March about how BlockBuster could very well be going under soon, and given all the talk in this thread and the Netflix-specific thread about Netflix and the delay of new releases, where do we stand? Right before the summer begins I typically revisit this issue and decide which service I'm going to use, for the summer and beyond, summer being the time of year I tend to watch discs most heavily. Is there any way to discuss this objectively, without allowing bias for the service that we ourselves chose to trump reason? ;) I think there is... I would really appreciate it if folks who are Netflix subscribers to outline the biggest negatives they see with Netflix and the biggest positives they see with BlockBuster. And, could BlockBuster subscribers please outline the biggest negatives they see with BlockBuster and the biggest positives they see with Netflix? And best of all... is there anyone who is an equal-subscriber to both, who can give us a really good overview of where the two services stand today, stacked up against each other?

If folks need context for comparison, this is what I expect our family to rent (on Blu-ray, if available) this summer:
The Twilight Saga: New Moon
The Time Traveler's Wife
Sherlock Holmes
Angels & Demons
Dexter: Season 3
Weeds: Season 5
Timeline
Up
Monsters vs. Aliens
9
2012
Up in the Air
Love Actually
Sorority Row
Taking Woodstock
The L Word: Season 6
The Tudors: Season 3
Nurse Jackie: Season 1
Paul Blart: Mall Cop
The Meerkats
Iron Jawed Angels
Glee: Season 1: Vol. 1
Nine
As you can see, most of these have been out for a while.

Also, for more context, would your answer change if streaming was not an option (because a member of my family is hearing impaired)?

7Mbps should be fine for Netflix. Not too many movies and very few new releases but it's getting better. Amazon has almost all new releases.

How many HD movies is "not too many"?

Does Amazon and Blockbuster have a streaming deal like Netflix?

Thanks.

How many HD movies is "not too many"?

Does Amazon and Blockbuster have a streaming deal like Netflix?

Thanks.

I have already answered: Not too many new releases and not to many HD movies compared to Amazon, for example. Almost all new release is available in HD from Amazon, very few from Netflix. Blockbuster also has a streaming service but none of my TVs or players support it. There is a fundamental difference between Netflix and the others: Netflix is a fixed price deal, you pay 10 bucks and can stream whatever is available. Amazon and Blockbuster is on per movie base, that's why much more new releases are available, the Studios want to charge like they do with video on demand from cable/satellite. Obviously I can't tell exactly how many HD movies are available from Netflix but I would say something around 500.

If you are after the new releases in HD, forget about Netflix. If you want a bargain to watch some old movies and few new releases, go for it.

thanks slimoli.

Obviously I can't tell exactly how many HD movies are available from Netflix but I would say something around 500.

If you are after the new releases in HD, forget about Netflix. If you want a bargain to watch some old movies and few new releases, go for it.

There are currently 1219 movies and TV shows in HD. You can go to http://instantwatcher.com/genres/30 (without a Netflix Account) and filter by HD Only if you desire.

Netflix

Pros

Shipping: In most of the country, it's usually a two day turnaround on shipping (mail on Monday, they receive and ship a new on Tuesday, you get it Wednesday).
Streaming. The obvious big advantage to NF streaming is it's built into many devices now and is a buffet/all-you-can-watch plan for a reasonable price. I consider it a pro, but YMMV depending on:

How valuable you find the titles that are available. I have 48 movies in my "instant" queue, and I watch around 3 each week (on top of my discs) so obviously I find the selection pretty decent...at least enough that they add more titles I'm interested in faster than I can watch them, and they are definitely focused on improving it and the selection.
If you have a device connected to your TV that can stream HD (like a PS3, XBOX, Roku box, a Blu-Ray player, etc). The PC is the worst streamer, since it can't do HD (and neither can the Wii)
Your PQ and SQ preferences. Streaming is not Blu-Ray, and you should not expect it to be. For the most part (key word, "most") I find SD to be about DVD quality, and HD to be on par with my DirecTV HD...or possibly just slightly below. Quality of course varies from title-to-title. I am watching on a 50" plasma, so if you have a 120" Front Projector, your opinion might vary there as well. Sound is unfortunately only stereo, although they are supposed to be coming out with 5.1, and I've heard some titles like Pan's Labyrinth are now 5.1 (but haven't verified)...so maybe they're already toying with it. They have also implmented closed captioning/subtitles, but only on a few titles (like the seasons of Lost) and I think only on the PC right now. I'm not sure.


Cons:

The biggest con right now is they have recently made deals with several studios to delay new releases (on disc) 28 days. For example, Sherlock Holmes, even thought it's out on disc, doesn't arrive on Netflix until 4/27. The studios hope that this will force people to rent the VOD version (for $6 or whatever) or buy the disc (for $25-35), while Netflix gets permission to expand their streaming catalog from these studios. If you demand new releases the day they hit street, you may be disappointed, as many are.
Long waits. Still have the wait problem, but as a "new customer" you would get priority for awhile, so you might not have an issue.


Blockbuster

Pros (I cannot speak to their streaming/VOD stuff...not that familiar with it)

New releases D&D. Somehow the studios didn't limit BB on this, so they don't have the 28 day window. At least not yet.
In-store exchanges. You can take a movie you get in the mail back to the store for a title there, further helping out being able to get a new release on street date. Unfortunately they've changed things so now you have to return that title before they will ship you one from your online queue. Not sure if you have a BB close to you, but definitely should consider this.


Cons

Long shipping. YMMV depending on your location and where the closest shipping center is, but my experience with them (and what I read from many others) was that it was a 4 day turnaround (ship on Monday, they wouldn't receive until Wednesday, I wouldn't have a new title until Friday).
As mentioned before, BB is a company in deep financial trouble. They owe over a billion dollars, are closing stores everywhere (closing about 1/4 of the remaining ones by mid-year). They also seem to change their service quite often...when I joined (about 3 years ago), I got free movie and game rental coupons every month, had unlimited in-store exchanges, and they'd ship my next online movie right away. They took most of that away now.


One final thing to consider is the PO will probably be dropping Saturday delivery (although not sure when), which will cut into the amount of discs people are getting from both services.

Hope that helps. I am a very happy Netflix customer, but am disappointed about the 28 day window....although not overly so since I keep over 300 discs in my queue and watching New releases is not a high-priority for me (but still would be nice to be able to).

Netflix

Pros

Streaming. ... I consider it a pro, but YMMV depending on:

They have also implmented closed captioning/subtitles, but only on a few titles (like the seasons of Lost) and I think only on the PC right now. I'm not sure.

That is my understanding as well, and the main reason why our family, with a hearing impaired member, gets no value out of Netflix streaming.

Blockbuster

Cons

Long shipping. YMMV depending on your location and where the closest shipping center is, but my experience with them (and what I read from many others) was that it was a 4 day turnaround (ship on Monday, they wouldn't receive until Wednesday, I wouldn't have a new title until Friday).Could someone please provide more local detail on this for (for example) my area, around Boston MA?

One final thing to consider is the PO will probably be dropping Saturday delivery (although not sure when), which will cut into the amount of discs people are getting from both services.I think that that's so far into the future right now as to not be a serious consideration for people making a decision between the two services right now.

Blockbuster ... are closing stores everywhere (closing about 1/4 of the remaining ones by mid-year). One more question: Have they indicated which ones?

One more question: Have they indicated which ones?

I don't think there's an official list, but this thread is a good source (just people noting where they see stores closing):

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-bargains/561671-blockbuster-store-closing-sale-2009-a.html

It would probably be best just to drive by your local BB and see if they are going out of business or not. You could probably walk in and ask if they know if they are one of the stores that will be closing (assuming the guy behind the counter knows).

Could someone please provide more local detail on this for (for example) my area, around Boston MA?


I can't seem to find a list of BB shipping centers (newest one I could find was from 2005...certainly old info so I won't even bother posting it). My understand is there about twice as many Netflix centers, but I don't really know for sure. Boston is a pretty big area though, so would be surprised if there wasn't one there. Maybe someone local could provide some insight.

I am assuming your household has already used the trials (in previous summes) so you can't do that again for both to try them out. Of course as a "new" customer you always get the best treatment, which always makes me laugh because someone will switch services and post about how great the new one is compared to the other one...then 6 months later they'll be complaining again. I know some people just leapfrog the services back and forth every few months to always be in a "new customer" status and get the best treatment. Too much of a hassle for me.

So given all the talk in this thread back in March about how BlockBuster could very well be going under soon, and given all the talk in this thread and the Netflix-specific thread about Netflix and the delay of new releases, where do we stand?
I'm a BB subscriber, but most of my friends are Netflix.

I wouldn't worry about BB completely folding this year. There are a lot of things they can still do - like shedding many many stores - before collapse is imminent.

My perception is that NF has a bit more variety in their library of titles, but it's not huge these days.

Frankly, there are two reasons I see to go with BB - in-store exchanges and Blu-Rays for the same price as DVDs. Until this week I didn't have a Blu-Ray player, so it was the exchanges that kept me. I have a store a mile away and another two miles away, with a third three and a half miles away. I'm not too worried about store closings. YMMV.

I live in a suburb of Seattle, and my turnaround times are almost always 2 days, sometimes 3 - never more. One nice thing I don't hear anyone mention is that *if I return to the store* it is logged immediately as returned, so it triggers the next movie without having to physically go through the mail.

Since I have a projector and large screen, streaming currently (NF or BB) has no appeal to me. I don't want to pay to view compression artifacts. (I get my digital TV OTA, so I don't pay for cable and never will.)

On a 2 out plan, it's fairly easy to average 3 movies a week all month. My friends with 2 out NF plans are not able to achieve that.

If your geographical location isn't right (BB store nearby, near a shipping hub) then I think it's a wash between the two - and these days it looks like NF is a little cheaper.

So, I'll stick with BB right now because it works well, and I don't think they'll be out of business before the fall, but as soon as something materially deteriorates, I might jump ship.

I'm a BB subscriber, but most of my friends are Netflix.

I wouldn't worry about BB completely folding this year. There are a lot of things they can still do - like shedding many many stores - before collapse is imminent.
I have a foot in both camps. I have a one out at a time subscription with NF but I also have a one at a time in store exchange subscription at my neighborhood BB. I get a lot of use out of NF streaming but don't even put new releases in my queue anymore. New releases are far easier to get at the BB store and there is no 28 day delay on any of them. This combination has worked pretty well for me

Frankly, there are two reasons I see to go with BB - in-store exchanges and Blu-Rays for the same price as DVDs.But isn't the first conditional on the local BB store not closing? I could go in and ask, but would the person behind the counter even know the store is closing? Wouldn't they just walk in one day, to be told it is their last shift, and here's x weeks' severance?

Until this week I didn't have a Blu-Ray player, so it was the exchanges that kept me. I have a store a mile away and another two miles away, with a third three and a half miles away. I'm not too worried about store closings. YMMV.Indeed. My 3 mile away store closed a year or two ago. The 3 1/2 mile away store is still there. I have no idea if there are any other stores around, but they'd be way too far away to matter to us.

I have Netflix, but was looking for a place that has hard to find DVD movies or Asian movies. Been looking for some of the earlier Godzilla movies... Godzilla 1985, Godzilla Vs. Biollante, Godzilla Vs. Megalon and so forth.

I have Netflix, but was looking for a place that has hard to find DVD movies or Asian movies. Been looking for some of the earlier Godzilla movies... Godzilla 1985, Godzilla Vs. Biollante, Godzilla Vs. Megalon and so forth.

well, you could always try searching on the BB site, right?
http://www.blockbuster.com/search/product/products?keyword=godzilla&selPageSize=25&category=Movie

Is Netflix the only company that has an unlimited streaming deal? Does anyone have anything even close in price, etc? Thanks.

Is Netflix the only company that has an unlimited streaming deal? Does anyone have anything even close in price, etc? Thanks.

Yes they are the only game in town with an 'all you can watch' buffet plan.

Nobody else even comes close. I watch anywhere from 10-15 movies with the streaming service each month...it would cost me about $150/month to watch the same amount of movies on a VOD service that I do with Netflix for $22/month (I'm on the 3-disc plan)

Of course, the quality and selection would be better with a PPV or VOD service, but not $130/month better (IMO...YMMV if you are wealthier than I am)

The studios hope that this will force people to rent the VOD version (for $6 or whatever) or buy the disc (for $25-35), while Netflix gets permission to expand their streaming catalog from these studios.

So far, Warners and Fox (who started all this) have not provided any additional streaming content except for old cancelled TV shows (X-FILES, BUFFY, etc.). If you're looking for additional movies in streaming format from the studios, you'll probably be disappointed.

Netflix

Pros

Sound is unfortunately only stereo, although they are supposed to be coming out with 5.1, and I've heard some titles like Pan's Labyrinth are now 5.1 (but haven't verified)...so maybe they're already toying with it.



you hid this in the 'Pros'? LMFAO #1 deal breaker if this is true unless you only pay to watch Hogan's Heroes.

But isn't the first conditional on the local BB store not closing? I could go in and ask, but would the person behind the counter even know the store is closing? Wouldn't they just walk in one day, to be told it is their last shift, and here's x weeks' severance?

My local store closed recently. What happens is they continue to rent DVDs for about another week, then remain open for another 2-3 weeks taking in rental returns and packing up.

So get a BB subscription and enjoy it while it lasts, one month or maybe another year or two?

Yeah, that was in the back of my mind, when writing what I wrote earlier... heck we're talking about risking, at most, $20. Not a big risk. If I walk up to the BB store one day to see a "We're closing" sign, I can pick a point in the next week or two after that to activate NF, and cancel BB just about when the store closes, insisting on a refund of the unused portion of the month (not that they'd necessarily give one, but can't hurt to try).

cancel BB just about when the store closes, insisting on a refund of the unused portion of the month (not that they'd necessarily give one, but can't hurt to try).

I wonder if they would time the store closure to coincide with the end of the month, avoiding the situation? You're probably not the only one in your immediate area with a subscription plan.

Or does the "months" of the plans not match up with the calender months? (Meaning the month starts the day you sign up.)

I wonder if they would time the store closure to coincide with the end of the month, avoiding the situation? You're probably not the only one in your immediate area with a subscription plan. Or does the "months" of the plans not match up with the calender months? (Meaning the month starts the day you sign up.)Everyone has a different "month" (based on their join/restart date), so that wouldn't be feasible. Rather, they're going to have to deal with the fact that no matter when they close, they're going to be messing up Total Access subscribers.

It would probably be best just to drive by your local BB and see if they are going out of business or not. Funny story.... I did just that, yesterday. (Well, I walked by.) On the front door is a sign "Cash only; no credit cards, debit cards or gift cards." I'm thinking "ut-oh!" this can't be a good sign. Turns out, though, that it was just that their connection was down that day, and things should be up and running properly again today.

I "cased the joint" looking for (other) signs that the end was neigh. All the ceiling tiles are in brand-new condition (no un-remedied water spots), the place looked clean, neat, albeit a bit tightly-packed. Looks to me like a business planning on being there a while. And given that all the BB's within a 5 mile radius recently closed, I am rather hoping this one is the one that stays open.

So I think I'll switch to BB. What's there to lose? No more than $5-$10, as far as I can tell. Not gonna break me. Thanks for the assistance in deciding.

you hid this in the 'Pros'? LMFAO #1 deal breaker if this is true unless you only pay to watch Hogan's Heroes.

Agreed. And PAN'S LABYRINTH is not in 5.1...just the usual stereo.

you hid this in the 'Pros'? LMFAO #1 deal breaker if this is true unless you only pay to watch Hogan's Heroes.

Agreed. And PAN'S LABYRINTH is not in 5.1...just the usual stereo.

This was the thread I was referring to about 5.1: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238516 I have since verified that those guys don't know what they're talking about :)

Sorry you guys feel the lack of 5.1 is a deal breaker. The only movies I tend to care about 5.1 (for the most part) are action, war, sci-fi and horror. I'll get the Blu-Ray (or DVD if BD is unavailable) for those.

Fortunately (for me) there are plenty of TV shows, documentaries, dialog-driven films, stand up comedians, interviews, etc available on streaming that don't need 5.1.

I don't know how anyone could even watch a film as visually and aurally stunning as Pan's Labyrinth via streaming anyhow, but that's just me.

I don't know how anyone could even watch a film as visually and aurally stunning as Pan's Labyrinth via streaming anyhow, but that's just me.

Well, Pan's Labyrinth (streaming) actually looks better than the DVD, and not everyone has a Blu-Ray player and a surround sound system (yes, I know it's hard to believe). In fact, some people don't even have HDTVs **gasp** These people could be anywhere...your friends, family, maybe even your neighbor **glances around nervously**

I personally wouldn't watch Pan's Labyrinth on streaming since I do have all of the above. However, as pointed out above, there are plenty of films that I don't feel the need to have stunning PQ and AQ on, such as most documentaries, standups, comedies, romcoms, dialog driven films, most television shows, etc.

Sure, I'll get the Blu-Ray if it's convenient (and actually available on BD), but normally I will make sure something like 2012 (for example) is shipped on disc, then when I don't have a disc at home, I'll watch something from streaming that isn't necessary to watch the Blu-Ray of. There's plenty.

As one more example, we rented the Blu-Ray of Astro Boy (the movie). My kid liked it and now is watching the original complete series on streaming. I certainly don't care if those are on Blu-Ray or DVD or streaming. In fact, they aren't even out on Blu-Ray. The streaming versions look pretty good, and I'd rather not waste disc rentals on these anyways.

I don't know how anyone could even watch a film as visually and aurally stunning as Pan's Labyrinth via streaming anyhow, but that's just me.
Well, Pan's Labyrinth (streaming) actually looks better than the DVD, and not everyone has a Blu-Ray player and a surround sound system (yes, I know it's hard to believe). In fact, some people don't even have HDTVs **gasp** These people could be anywhere...your friends, family, maybe even your neighbor **glances around nervously**

I personally wouldn't watch Pan's Labyrinth on streaming since I do have all of the above. However, as pointed out above, there are plenty of films that I don't feel the need to have stunning PQ and AQ on, such as most documentaries, standups, comedies, romcoms, dialog driven films, most television shows, etc.

Sure, I'll get the Blu-Ray if it's convenient (and actually available on BD), but normally I will make sure something like 2012 (for example) is shipped on disc, then when I don't have a disc at home, I'll watch something from streaming that isn't necessary to watch the Blu-Ray of. There's plenty.

As one more example, we rented the Blu-Ray of Astro Boy (the movie). My kid liked it and now is watching the original complete series on streaming. I certainly don't care if those are on Blu-Ray or DVD or streaming. In fact, they aren't even out on Blu-Ray. The streaming versions look pretty good, and I'd rather not waste disc rentals on these anyways.
Although, I, too, am a BD purist and agree that there is no way to duplicate the stunning quality of 1080p video and HD audio via streaming, I still use NF streaming a lot. I watch a lot of episodes of TV shows via NF, either on my 17 inch Macbook Pro or my iPad. I watch them when, for example, I am preparing meals, working out on my treadmill, or doing other things around the house. These shows look and sound just fine and I have appreciated being able to watch them. That said, it is unlikely I will ever watch a movie like Avatar via streaming.

That said, it is unlikely I will ever watch a movie like Avatar via streaming.

Not with Netflix streaming, that's for sure. I'd have no problem watching it on Zune Marketplace (on my 360) or on Vudu HDX though.

Streaming on Netflix, while the most affordable, does pale in quality comparison to the other streaming options. I just don't frequently use the Zune marketplace (or own a Vudu) due to the VOD model. Cost-prohibitive (as are buying discs for me).

But damn...the streaming stuff on Zune Markeplace looks very very very very good, and my understanding is the Vudu HDX does as well. I wouldn't hesitate to watch any movie on either of those services if I absolutely could not wait for Netflix to ship me a Blu-Ray of something like Avatar.

Zune isn't streaming, it's downloading - it's different.

Zune isn't streaming, it's downloading - it's different.

Apparently you haven't used it for a while or missed the huge press release and buzz last year. 1080p smooth streaming with 5.1. Full FF and Rewind functionality. It's been out since the fall update on XBOX.

Tech explanation:
http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/learningcenter/zunexbox/xboxlive/makeityours/mbr.htm

Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79g475rUTbw

Tech demo from before it launched (you can try yourself and watch the bandwidth and other monitors....click around just like youtube and see how fast it rebuffers).
http://www.iis.net/media/experiencesmoothstreaming1080p

My review:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1191057

The good news is it works as advertised. It looks and sounds great (as close to Blu-Ray as I've seen). Bad news is movies are $3-$6 on the VOD model. But I would NEVER use DirecTV's PPV service over this.

As said earlier, Netflix still offers me the most bang for the buck though (thanks to the buffet plan).

Okay, Blockbuster is seriously puzzling me.

Last Wednesday, my queue was as follows:

True Blood: The Complete Second Season [5 Discs] [Blu-ray] (2009)
1. True Blood: The Complete Second Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 1 (2009) Available
2. True Blood: The Complete Second Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 2 (2009) Available
3. True Blood: The Complete Second Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 3 (2009) Available
4. True Blood: The Complete Second Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 4 (2009) Available
5. True Blood: The Complete Second Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 5 (2009) Available
6. Sherlock Holmes [Blu-ray] (2009) Available
7. The Twilight Saga: New Moon [Blu-ray] [Special Edition] (2009) Available
8. The Time Traveler's Wife [Blu-ray] (2009) Available
Dexter: The Third Season [3 Discs] [Blu-ray] (2008)
9. Dexter: The Third Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 1 (2008) Available
10 Dexter: The Third Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 2 (2008) Available
11.Dexter: The Third Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 3 (2008) Available
12.Angels & Demons [Blu-ray] - Disc 1 (2009) Available
The L Word: Final Season [3 Discs] (2009)
13.The L Word: Final Season - Disc 1 (2009) Available
14.The L Word: Final Season - Disc 2 (2009) Available
15.The L Word: Final Season - Disc 3 (2009) Available
16. ... (lots more)

So the first three discs they send me?
Sherlock Holmes [Blu-ray] (2009)
The Twilight Saga: New Moon [Blu-ray] [Special Edition] (2009)
The Time Traveler's Wife [Blu-ray] (2009)

Huh? Okay, well okay, let's watch them and return them. Did that this weekend, having them scanned in at the local Blockbuster store. So what do they ship today?
Angels & Demons [Blu-ray] - Disc 1 (2009)
Dexter: The Third Season [Blu-ray] - Disc 1 (2008)
The L Word: Final Season - Disc 1 (2009)

Can someone explain this? I suppose "Available" may be just bogus, for True Blood, but why they heck would the send me The L Word Disc 1 before they send me Dexter Disc 2? I can't figure that out.

I'm not really upset or anything. As long as I get the entire set of each series, over the next few weeks, I'll be happy, though I would really prefer to watch these series in sequence (like I have been able to do pretty reliably, with Netflix, in the past). But I don't see the logic they're using.

I honestly do not understand the internet hate for BB I am seeing. People are actually cheering them going out of business. If that happens I will pay Netflix more money for less movies than I currently enjoy with BB, have to wait 28 days for new releases, have no local store to exchange or accountability if something goes wrong and if I chose to stream movies they would be in 2.0 sound.

what? I would just watch TBS and hope something cool was on instead.

Here's a good example of the problem I have with Blockbuster.... I did an exchange for Disc 2 and Disc 3 of True Blood Season 2. The system failed to properly match the exchanges to the corresponding items in my queue. Therefore the discs were not removed from my queue automatically, and no way to do it manually without breaking the disc set, which could result in me getting Disc 5 before Disc 4. I wrote Blockbuster to have them do it for me. Nope. No interest whatsoever in addressing this kind of issue whatsoever. At Netflix I never encountered any issue that they wouldn't resolve to my satisfaction when I contacted them about it.

I honestly do not understand the internet hate for BB I am seeing. People are actually cheering them going out of business. If that happens I will pay Netflix more money for less movies than I currently enjoy with BB, have to wait 28 days for new releases, have no local store to exchange or accountability if something goes wrong and if I chose to stream movies they would be in 2.0 sound.

what? I would just watch TBS and hope something cool was on instead.
My sentiments exactly.

bicker I would have just handled that situation myself in-store and that sounds like a one-off scenario anyways - doesn't address any of my points.

I honestly do not understand the internet hate for BB I am seeing. People are actually cheering them going out of business. If that happens I will pay Netflix more money for less movies than I currently enjoy with BB, have to wait 28 days for new releases, have no local store to exchange or accountability if something goes wrong and if I chose to stream movies they would be in 2.0 sound.

what? I would just watch TBS and hope something cool was on instead.
I've used both BB and NF extensively over the past several years, and I really do prefer having a brick n mortar store to visually peruse each week's releases and/or to go in and pick up the movie that I want that particular day.
So, I basically agree with you except I don't really watch anything on TV (i.e. TBS) except for an occasional sports game.

bicker I would have just handled that situation myself in-storeThe store cannot affect what the online service does or sends. and that sounds like a one-off scenario anyways - doesn't address any of my points.The situation I outlined is actually not a one-off scenario (I suspect that it'll happen with any series discs), but that's not the point. You're focused only on what you know could go wrong, and you therefore aren't expecting the unexpected, and worrying about how each provide responds. I think that indicates part of the problem with your analysis.

It's simple: In my experience, Netflix makes things right, whereas Blockbuster makes excuses.

I'm still with Blockbuster. In-store exchanges make up for poor customer service to some extent.

Do any of your 8200 posts make sense?

Only if you're willing to look beyond your own personal preferences.

thank you for proving my point with your next post. Please stop derailing this thread with message board foolishness.

Do any of your 8200 posts make sense?
thank you for proving my point with your next post. Please stop derailing this thread with message board foolishness.
One wonders just who is derailing the thread.

To the topic at hand, though. I gave up on BB mail order months ago because its turnaround time kept getting slower and slower. In stark contrast, NF unfailingly acknowledges receipt of a returned disc early the next morning after I put it in the mail. Also without fail, NF sends a replacement disc the same day.

Several months ago I got a 1 disc at a time in store exchange subscription at a BB located only 3 minutes away. I have been able to get the new release I wanted every time and never have to put up with the 28 day delay NF has started imposing on many new releases.

The combination of my NF mail order subscription and BB in store exchange subscription has been terrific.

I was going to ask him to please stop derailing this thread because reasonable people are disagreeing with him.

And to the topic at hand: I've got two empty slots in my queue with Blockbuster, with loads of "available" titles in my queue. I don't recall ever having slots open like this with Netflix, and I also don't recall Netflix skipping over "Available" titles in my queue as much as Blockbuster has, giving me discs from lower in my queue instead.

And to the topic at hand: I've got two empty slots in my queue with Blockbuster, with loads of "available" titles in my queue. I don't recall ever having slots open like this with Netflix, and I also don't recall Netflix skipping over "Available" titles in my queue as much as Blockbuster has, giving me discs from lower in my queue instead.

As far as I am concerned, that is par-for-the-course with BB. It was the first time I was with them, then the second time. Switched back to NF and never looked back.

What you have to realize is BB is on it's last legs. They are barely holding onto a few stores (Although I think a third are closing this year, IIRC), and the service continues to decline. Just in the last year or two, they've gotten rid of unlimited in-store exchanges, they no longer give out game rental coupons, they've re-instituted late fees, doing an in-store exchange now counts against your online rentals (i.e. you don't get your next DVD shipped to you until you return your in-store exchange), etc....that's not to mention the slew of store closings that have made the in-store exchanges useless for many people who no longer have stores near them.

I expect the service to continue to get worse before they finally implode.

My personal opinion is that in 2011, they'll announce the closure of the remaining stores and their deal with the studios for the 28-day window advantage will disappear (there's no reason or incentive for studios to not enforce it with them since they are with everyone else), which will make their disc-by-mail service fold up shortly thereafter.

BB kiosks will be around for awhile to compete with RedBox though.

Personally, I will have mixed feeling if/when they go under. They are and always have been a horrible company who has treated the customer with disdain and been slow to react to the changing marketplace (they are still playing catchup to Netflix in every area).

On the other side of things, competition is good, so am nervous what will happen when NF is the only game left in town. I personally don't think they're going to be doubling prices or anything, but monopolies and lack of choice are rarely good for the consumer.

I signed up for a free trial of both because I was trying to rent a specific old title. It pissed me off that Netflix listed a bunch of old titles I was interested in, but they didn't actually have any of them. Why list old **** you don't carry and never will!? I tried a few rentals from Blockbuster while waiting on the title I was wanting to get a hold of, but I gave in and bought a copy. I decided to hang onto the BB thing for a month or two and see how it goes though. There are a few movies I've been wanting to see without having to blind buy, and Family Video doesn't have them. Besides, this way saves me gas. It's just annoying it's so slow though. They apparently check in movies on Saturday, but they've never sent out one for me on a Saturday. Other days, I've had instant turnaround.

They [Netflix] apparently check in movies on Saturday, but they've never sent out one for me on a Saturday. Other days, I've had instant turnaround.
I have put NF movies in the mail on a Friday on several occasions. Without fail, NF has checked in the returned disc on Saturday morning and mailed the replacement that day. Also without fail, I have received the replacement in Monday's mail. When I have put a returned disc in the mail on Saturday, NF has checked it in the following Monday and immediately mailed a replacement, which I have always received on Tuesday.

I have put NF movies in the mail on a Friday on several occasions. Without fail, NF has checked in the returned disc on Saturday morning and mailed the replacement that day. Also without fail, I have received the replacement in Monday's mail. When I have put a returned disc in the mail on Saturday, NF has checked it in the following Monday and immediately mailed a replacement, which I have always received on Tuesday.

I was confused if he was talking about NF or BB above. I have had similar experience with NF as you (always receive and ship the same day, receiving them the next day)

Haven't used BB for a couple of years, but back then it was not unusual for them to not ship me a disc the same day the received one (one of the many reasons I left).

I signed up for a free trial of both because I was trying to rent a specific old title. It pissed me off that Netflix listed a bunch of old titles I was interested in, but they didn't actually have any of them. Why list old **** you don't carry and never will!?
Can you give examples? That's a first I've seen or heard of it although I can imagine how it could happen.

larry

Haven't used BB for a couple of years, but back then it was not unusual for them to not ship me a disc the same day the received one (one of the many reasons I left).
That's the primary reason I dropped my BB mail order account, too. BB would routinely wait several days between receiving one disc and mailing the next. I finally got sick of it and dropped BB's mail order service in favor of NF. I now have an in store, one disc at a time exchange subscription at my neighborhood BB store, along with a one disc at a time mail order subscription with NF. The BB store is only three minutes away from me and any new release is there for the plucking on the Tuesday it is released. I am finally enjoying the best of both worlds.

Can you give examples? That's a first I've seen or heard of it although I can imagine how it could happen.

I haven't really found anything on NF that they haven't had, but with so much content available and titles going out of print, it is inconceivable that they'd have literally every disc ever put out, so it's not surprising there are probably some titles here and there they are missing (especially older or more obscure movies). I would also like to see some examples.

I used to keep a list of movies they didn't have, but they were mostly new/upcoming movies that the trailer was out for but they just hadn't added to the database yet, then would go through on occassion to see if they had added them. NF lately seems to be better at adding movies quicker so I can save them to my queue and haven't really had an issue with it lately.

EDIT: I actually did find a couple from other threads elsewhere on the interwebz. They do not have a movie called Angus, nor Exit to Eden (and who doesn't want to see Rosie O'Donnel in fetish gear?)

I was going to ask him to please stop derailing this thread because reasonable people are disagreeing with him.


OK, so I may have been gruff with my tone and ruffled your feathers. I should know better.

My point is that BB lines up exactly with what my usage and needs are, and I wouldn't go with a competitor that had a 28 day wait for new releases, since at this point in my viewing life my queue is only new or future releases, and streaming 2.0 sound on my home theater is laughable. Couple that with in store exchanges and what has been top knotch customer service and again, I would use DirectV on demand for movies before going to a mail-only service.

If getting your tv series multi disc items out of sync is such a game changer that you woudl switch to a vendor with the above deficiencies and also publicly bash them on a message board, then seriously you could have removed all others in your queue such that they came in sequence by default - I've done that before, seems like common sense to work the system instead of setting yourself up for disappointment like that.

out.

Have subscribed to each multiple times and always end up quiting for poor service. With Blockbuster it always came down to VERY LONG WAIT being listed for every damned thing and worse, their waiting days to ship me stuff after receiving DVD's back. Once they received all three DVD's back and waited five days to ship me the first title. The other two took two more days to ship. That was it for me. Goodbye!!

Netflix has had all sorts of problems with BD availability, but I just signed up again to try out their streaming service and was shocked that everything was listed as NOW that I selected for BD.

Of course, I found out that their streaming selection is @ss. There are a few titles worth watching, but the stuff my wife wants to watch, nope. NOTHING. Pretty much zilch on newer films.

Streamed The HUNTED (Christopher Lambert film) because it was in 'HD' and it looked better than the DVD I have, but the sound was flat and simple stereo. Last Chance Harvey was normal SD and looked like VHS to my eyes. Very poor quality with stuttering. Audio was horrendous. We had to constantly crank the volume up for dialogue and down when the music came on. Is it always like that? Yikes! :eek:

I'll likely cancel when this month is over and try Blockbuster's streaming service to get a proper comparison between the two.

Matt - The reason NF's BD's all show available now is because you're a new user. People do that all the time (switch, claim the service is awesome, then it degrades so they switch to BB, claim the service is awesome, then it degrades, then switch back to NF....repeat). It's just that they both treat new customers great.

Streaming Selection: No, there are not that many new releases, but it's also only $9/month. I find plenty to watch (my instant queue hovers around 60 titles, give or take). There are some "newish" titles on there like District 9, Michael Jackson's This is It, Angels & Demons, Taking of Pelham 123, and Law Abiding Citizen, but they're certainly not day and date.

Streaming Audio Quality: It's stereo, unfortunately, but there are stirrings that 5.1 will be offered in 2011. Because of the stereo limitation, I get the BD of any "surround-heavy" movies, such as action/war or sci-fi movies. I do not feel the need to have 5.1 for much of what I enjoy, which are indie dramas, documentaries, standup comedians, some TV shows, dialogue-driven films, etc.

There are plenty of good movies if you don't limit yourself to big Hollywood blockbusters. There's a thread here with some suggestions: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1222798

Streaming Picture Quality: Most HD stuff (which is 720p) looks somewhere slightly above what I get with DirecTV (much better than my CBS, which is a macroblocking mess), so I have no complaints. SD is where you'll find the most variation, as when it went "live" they brought over a bunch of old encodes. Check out one of the newer StarzPlay titles like Angels & Demons which is SD and is indicative of the newer SD encodes. It's the older encodes/titles you have to worry about...I've seen some really bad ones (sub-VHS like Toxic Avenger) and some mediocre ones and even some that I had to check to see if was an "HD" title or not.

The quality is also dependent on your connection. Most equipment has a "bar" meter that shows you your quality: 1 - 4 bars or "HD" (the Roku and 360 do at least, the PS3 does not. I think most Blu-Ray players do). As for that and your stuttering issues, that could be the title (haven't seen that), the Netflix-capable device (you don't specify) your connection (you don't specify), the bars you're getting (you don't specify) etc.

There are many other streaming options available. I prefer Zune's 1080p smooth streaming with 5.1 sound which is near Blu-Ray quality (key word "near") but there's also Amazon VOD, AppleTV, PSN, Vudu, etc. Of course those will run you $3-$6 per title instead of $9/month, but you get better quality and a bigger selection of new titles, if that's your thing.

As I said, my instant queue hovers around 60 titles so the cost/value ratio is great for me. YMMV depending on tastes and your need to have every title in 5.1 (even if the specific title doesn't actually use the rear-channels)

Can you give examples? That's a first I've seen or heard of it although I can imagine how it could happen.

larry

The 60s (1999), Slumber Party Massacre 1-3, Sorority House Massacre 1-2 were all listed on Netflix, but unavailable. The 60s was list on BB with Very Long Wait. I finally cracked and bought a disc even though it would've been much cheaper to get it rented and just tell them I broke/lost it. $60 for a goddamn Like New copy. You know the really ****** part? NBC did another one the following year (The 70s), and that one is still in print for $10. WTF! not fair :(