Hey.

Did you guys since the new 60" Vizio carried by Costco. 4 HDMIs, 1080P. Tempting ...

I'll still buy big boxes of cereal and goldfish crackers at Costco, but I with the new policy, I won't by an off-brand high-tech gadget (too risky since the Maxent and Sceptre I bought there had problems). Prices at Best Buy and such are much better if you keep an eye out for sales.

Hey.

Did you guys since the new 60" Vizio carried by Costco. 4 HDMIs, 1080P. Tempting ...

Not 1080P!

I don't get it. I went to your homepage store web site and found just a 14 day return policy, not the 90 days offered by Costco. Did I read it wrong?

Shelly


:D

I'll still buy big boxes of cereal and goldfish crackers at Costco, but I with the new policy, I won't by an off-brand high-tech gadget (too risky since the Maxent and Sceptre I bought there had problems). Prices at Best Buy and such are much better if you keep an eye out for sales.


I agree. I will not be buying electronics from Costco. It's now more to my advantage to shop and buy at BB and Circuit City and stores of that ilke.

I'll still buy big boxes of cereal and goldfish crackers at Costco, but I with the new policy, I won't by an off-brand high-tech gadget (too risky since the Maxent and Sceptre I bought there had problems). Prices at Best Buy and such are much better if you keep an eye out for sales.
exactly.

What economic theory is that?

Regarding your downward spiral comment: when you fire bad customers you become more profiable not less.

Well, when you try to sell something at a premium compared to every other retailer, but don't offer what customers see as added value, then I'd definitely say that's a good way to lose money.


I think Costco is going to see their TV sales plummet due to their high pricing compared to almost every other retailer.



I only purchased a Vizio there because of the return policy, and sure enough it has developed problems. I haven't found a suitable replacement, but I can guarantee you it won't be from Costco unless their price is just as competitive as other places.

Well, when you try to sell something at a premium compared to every other retailer, but don't offer what customers see as added value, then I'd definitely say that's a good way to lose money.


I think Costco is going to see their TV sales plummet due to their high pricing compared to almost every other retailer.



I only purchased a Vizio there because of the return policy, and sure enough it has developed problems. I haven't found a suitable replacement, but I can guarantee you it won't be from Costco unless their price is just as competitive as other places.

You are talking about two different concepts. Yes, if a retailer isn't price competitive they will have issues. But the return policy abuse has nothing to do with that. A person determined to abuse the policy is going to do that regardless of what they paid, that's why they are abusers. They should get their prices in-line and align their return policies to the other retailers in the marketplace.

Was at the Costco in Plano Texas tonight 2 people were there returning one Panasonic TH-50PX6U the other was a Vizio 60in.The guy with the Vizio said the screen keep going blank neither one was buying another.

They need to lower prices to get themselves a competitive advantage. When I was choosing my 37-inch lcd for my bedroom between 899$ vizio and $599 Olevia, it was a no-brainer.

Exactly. I would hope that people aren't blinded by the Costco kool--aid and take a critical look at alternate retailer products/pricing.

Well I see both positives and negatives of this new policy, all that have already been pointed out.


One thing I hope comes from this new policy is more aggressive pricing by Costco. In the past Costco has sold inferior models (models made by the manufacturers specifically for Costco) or they have sold TVs that were about 10% higher in price than some online and B&M dealers. Still many people purchased from Costco because of the "built in" extended warranty.

With the new policy, Costco should be able to price their items much more competitively.

(thanks mark rubin, ill now stay on topic [edited by mod]
exactly. this is good news for the big box guys and the online retailers like roman at invision...this means that almost noone at least on this forum is going to pay the premium that costco charges and not get the unlimited returns. ill save the 500 to 1000 dollars that invision will save over costco, buy a couple hundred dollar extended warranty and still be way ahead AND have more time over their new 2 year "concierge" service...blech!..what a stupid name from a now stupid store. roman, when im ready for my 1080p 65 inch panny, ill be calling you.

this is also bad news for startups like vizio that wanted to use costco as a launching pad..the only reason i bought the vizio a year and a half ago was because of the peace of mind of the unlimited return time. now there is NO WAY id take a chance on a no name brand like that, and im sure many others on here wouldnt either. (and it turns out it was a good thing as a pixel went bad after 5 months, OR 2 MONTHS OF ACTUAL NORMAL USE)

Also, it looks like sams has not jumped on the "concierge" bandwagon as yet:
SAM'S CLUB Return/Refund Policy

At SAM’S CLUB, Member Satisfaction is 100% guaranteed both on merchandise and Memberships. Our policy is to refund our Member’s purchases in full with a receipt and without a receipt we will refund in full with a SAM’S CLUB Shopping Card.

The following exceptions apply:
Computers, which can be returned within 6 months of the original purchase date, except Dell computers which can be returned within 30 days of the invoice (ship) date.
All Dell products can be returned within 30 days of the invoice (ship) date.

but, since they seem to just follow everything costco does, im sure this will change shortly. moral is, if youre shut out at costco from the unlimited returns, theres still time to head to sams and get in under the wire.


I am glad Sam's Club is still holding on. Is Sam's Club the same company with Costco, or it is a different company? I need to find out where the Sam's Club is near me, I'd rather give my $50 to them.

I am glad Sam's Club is still holding on. Is Sam's Club the same company with Costco, or it is a different company? I need to find out where the Sam's Club is near me, I'd rather give my $50 to them.
Sam's Club = Walmart

Sam's Club = Walmart
WalMart = The Root of all Evil

Sams will change their policy soon as well. They usually mirror everything Costco does. They can't even come close to Costco's performance and tend to follow. Costco is hands down the leader in Wholesale clubs. BJ's is like the forgotten red headed step child. So don't even try them.

There was an article in wall street journal claiming, that purchases made prior to this change will enjoy the old policy re return/refund /exchanges :confused:

any documentation from costco?
Yes a link has been posted several times... just look back. But I can confirm it for you.

True, if my prediction on what may occur in 3 months is true, then I feel it could be a hit to Costco's status.

There will no doubt be some pissed off members who will cancel their memberships, but if somebody is willing to cancel their membership because they can't use Costco as a Rent a Center then the loss of their business will be fine by costco. In the long run the majority of those who leave will be those who were the worst abusers and therefore Costco will end up on top. Plus with those abusive returns no longer hurting the bottom line costco will be able to more aggressively price electronics which will bring in even more sales.

Win Win

There will no doubt be some pissed off members who will cancel their memberships, but if somebody is willing to cancel their membership because they can't use Costco as a Rent a Center then the loss of their business will be fine by costco. In the long run the majority of those who leave will be those who were the worst abusers and therefore Costco will end up on top. Plus with those abusive returns no longer hurting the bottom line costco will be able to more aggressively price electronics will bring in even more sales.

Win Win

So are you the spokes person for Costco now so when we hear it from you we can actually take it comes from Corporate.We will see how this all works out I was there today getting my Daughter some glass's seen 2 plazma's being returned they did not buy again did talk to one with the 60in Vizio the screen went blank on him.

So are you the spokes person for Costco now so when we hear it from you we can actually take it comes from Corporate.We will see how this all works out I was there today getting my Daughter some glass's seen 2 plazma's being returned they did not buy again did talk to one with the 60in Vizio the screen went blank on him.

Sarcasm noted,

Oviously I am not a spokes person for Costco. But I can speak from experience and I can tell you well before they changed the policy they began to be less willing to help those with extremely excessive returns. I have seen managers take away cards, cancel the membership, and ask them never to return because they were bring back literally everything they purchased. If it wasn't a good idea in the long run, Costco would have NEVER done it.

Not everybody returns and purchases right away. That guy with the 60in plasma might just be waiting for the very same model when it goes on sale in a few weeks.

There will no doubt be some pissed off members who will cancel their memberships, but if somebody is willing to cancel their membership because they can't use Costco as a Rent a Center then the loss of their business will be fine by costco. In the long run the majority of those who leave will be those who were the worst abusers and therefore Costco will end up on top. Plus with those abusive returns no longer hurting the bottom line costco will be able to more aggressively price electronics which will bring in even more sales.

Win Win

I think the cancellation of memberships will come not only from the abusers, but also people who don't feel like paying 10% more for the same product with the marginally better warranty. I can give you a real for instance.

I purchased the Philips 47" site unseen from Costco Online becasue of the return policy. This is the ONLY reason I renewed my membership after > 5 years of dormancy. I have a Sam's Club membership and except for the occasional item they are a wash, and Sam's is cheaper by $15 a year.

I got in on the OLD policy. If I have to return the set I will most likely NOT buy another one because I couldn'y justify the cost, AND I would have no reason to continue my membership.

Now, there are exceptions, the Sharp's at Costco are a smokin' deal compared to the big box stores (if you like playing Russian roulette with banding issues)....but the Sony's, for instance, are more expensive. The Phillips I bought I have not seen anywhere else so that is also an exception.

One thing Costco could do to get more business back is to allow all items sold at the home store to be purchased online. For instance, the Mitsubishi LT-46131 sells for over $450 less than the best big box store, BUT I can't order it! That seems silly.

Sorry, No More Abuse of Costco Return Policies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, No More Abuse of Costco Return Policies
'Fess up: Do you use Costco as an insurance policy against obsolescence? The company is finally fighting back against those who buy TVs one year, and return them (no questions asked) a couple of years later for the newest model.

According to CFO Richard Galanti, as quoted in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, "The change was implemented because the company was losing 'tens of millions of dollars' in returns."

Go ahead and groan. The discount retailer is still offering a 90-day no-questions-asked return policy for electronics, which is more than generous.It's about time. ;)

It's about time. ;)

I want to buy and keep a tv with not a renter. This may be a question for ToolBox but, if anyone knows. What happens after 90 days? They have extended the warranty to 2 years total. Do I bring it back and they repair it? Do I send it to the Manufacture for the first year but, the second they take over? Does someone come and repair from Costco or the Manufacture? The website explains the new setup for a few services but, not the rest.

I am glad Sam's Club is still holding on.

Not for long, I'd bet. Sams has a history of copying Costco...

Well this just sucks big time. Costco is building their first store in my area and I have been looking forward to getting my next plasma TV from them - but not anymore. In fact with this new policy I won't even bother with a membership. This is a huge boost to Sams and all the other electronics retailers throughout the country. I don't think Costco realizes how much this is going to hurt them - selling electronics at higher prices with no manufacturer warranty (they are not authorized sellers) and just their puny 90 day return policy. If I owned Costco stock I would dump it immediately. These guys could be out of business in a few years, unless they return to their old policy.

I was there today getting my Daughter some glass's seen 2 plazma's being returned they did not buy again did talk to one with the 60in Vizio the screen went blank on him.

I think a large portion of tv returns had to be because of Vizio's unreliability and defects (just look at the owner's thread for the Vizio 47" 1080p lcd). It seems like almost every time I've been at Costco I would see a couple of Vizios being returned. Yes I'm sure there were some who abused the return policy, but I still think a large number of returns were due to defective sets.

Sarcasm noted,

Oviously I am not a spokes person for Costco. But I can speak from experience and I can tell you well before they changed the policy they began to be less willing to help those with extremely excessive returns. I have seen managers take away cards, cancel the membership, and ask them never to return because they were bring back literally everything they purchased. If it wasn't a good idea in the long run, Costco would have NEVER done it.

Not everybody returns and purchases right away. That guy with the 60in plasma might just be waiting for the very same model when it goes on sale in a few weeks.

Wow, you sure seem to have something against the customer. Not everyone abuses the policy, I'm sure. As I stated in a previous post, I think a large number of tv returns were simply due to defective sets.

Just a note, if it weren't for the customer, you might not have that job at Costco.

I dont know why everyones so upset about this, so you have 3 months instead of forever. For most honest buyers thats more than enough time to evalute you're purchase. Anything more than that is just a free upgrade waiting to happen IMO.

Ya, tv sales will no doubt drop as a result but youll probably see pricing go down along with it. I doubt costco relied on electronics sales for its revenues, in fact the electronics were probably a bonus draw to consumers.... go to costco for your monthly chicken in a bag and a couple packs of bagels, and heck, while Im here Ill pick up a 50" plasma to try out. I bet for every 1 item that gets returned there are hundreds that dont.

Undoubtedly this will be a good deterrent however Im sure many abusers will still keep abusing, it just means theyll be returning to get a new tv every 2-1/2 months instead of 2 years. big woop, if your intention is truly honest from the beginning I dont see how this is such a big deal.

I've never returned anything to Costco but I made most of my electronic purchases there in the past because of the return policy. I didn't like the idea that if I bought it cheaper someplace else and it died 2 days after the return policy was up, I was just out of luck. I never abused the policy and never planned to abuse the policy, but not having a "hard" return deadline was definitely the reason I purchased big ticket items from Costco. I don't plan on returning my past purchases or canceling my membership. I also don't plan on buying any big ticket items from them again, nor renewing my membership when it runs out. I really didn't think they'd make this change, but now that they have they've lost my future business and I think I was a pretty good customer. I would be surprised if my attitude is unusual, but I was wrong about their changing the policy so who knows...

Who's going to be hurt by this change is not costco. Vizio and Sceptre are really going to take it in the shorts, it's their stock I'd be dumping and fast. As many here have noted, and I feel the same way, you'd only take a chance on a no-name if you were protected by costco's formerly incredible policy. Now, you won't, because what assurance do you have about build quality or the quality of their warranty work after 90 days. Their sales will drop like a rock.

I doubt many people will cancel their costco memberships, though. I take every irate person on this thread at their word, and I am sure you will all do your level best to convince everyone you meet to follow you, but most people don't join costco simply to buy big tv's with an unlimited everlasting return policy. Many people are tempted by the tv's once they're in the warehouse, sure, but they still will be. They might think about the purchase a little more carefully now, but the return policy is still better than anywhere but sam's club (for now, and a lot of people, myself included, won't get a sam's membership because of walmart's vicious corporate policies), you still get an extended warranty for free (true that many credit cards already do this but a lot of folks don't know that), and prices will drop with the new return policy because whoever was eating the cost of returns under the old policy, whether it's costco, a middleman, or the manufacturer, they don't have to price in that loss anymore.

This is not a bad move for costco.

These guys could be out of business in a few years, unless they return to their old policy.

They lose money when they sell to the abusers, in fact, their marketing data indicates it's many millions of dollars per year. So, how is eliminating them going to force Costco out of business? It will save them many millions each year which makes them a stronger company. Frankly, in all the comments I have seen on the internet the majority support the new Costco plan. Sometimes you need to fire bad customers.

I want to buy and keep a tv with not a renter. This may be a question for ToolBox but, if anyone knows. What happens after 90 days? They have extended the warranty to 2 years total. Do I bring it back and they repair it? Do I send it to the Manufacture for the first year but, the second they take over? Does someone come and repair from Costco or the Manufacture? The website explains the new setup for a few services but, not the rest.

If something goes wrong after the 90 days you need to contact the Costco Conceirege Service and they will try to help you fix the problem. If it is not something that can be done at home, they can give you the nearest authorized service location so it can be taken in and fixed. The Concierge number is !-866-561-0450. Best news is the call centers are located IN THE US so you will be able to understand them.

Well this just sucks big time. Costco is building their first store in my area and I have been looking forward to getting my next plasma TV from them - but not anymore. In fact with this new policy I won't even bother with a membership. This is a huge boost to Sams and all the other electronics retailers throughout the country. I don't think Costco realizes how much this is going to hurt them - selling electronics at higher prices with no manufacturer warranty (they are not authorized sellers) and just their puny 90 day return policy. If I owned Costco stock I would dump it immediately. These guys could be out of business in a few years, unless they return to their old policy.

Just a couple of things.... this change in policy does not reflect EVERYTHING. As noted MANY, MANY times Sams has a history of following Costco, their policy will be changing soon as well. And as I and others have mentioned as well... What costco loses in memberships and sales because of this policy.... will more than be made up for by SIGNIFICANTLY less abusive returns, which will allow costco to REDUCE the price of its electronics.

Lastly, the only thing.....THE ONLY THING that has been holding back Costco's stock in the past few years is the excessive electronics returns. Investors time and time again have complained and warned of the effects of the open ended policy. In fact when Costco did not reach the earnings expectations it had hoped for last year.... it was because of MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars worth of TV's coming back. Costco's stock will perform wonderfully under this new policy.

If something goes wrong after the 90 days you need to contact the Costco Conceirege Service and they will try to help you fix the problem. If it is not something that can be done at home, they can give you the nearest authorized service location so it can be taken in and fixed. The Concierge number is !-866-561-0450. Best news is the call centers are located IN THE US so you will be able to understand them.

I don't know if you can answer this but...

What if a repair tech cannot repair it for some reason in the first two years?

Would they do an exchange or a refund if the tech deemed it unrepairable?

Or... if it cannot be reapired to the purchasers satisfaction?

I'm not loking for an excuse to get a refund, just trying to figure out how good the warranty coverage will be ?

Thanks for your input.

If something goes wrong after the 90 days you need to contact the Costco Conceirege Service and they will try to help you fix the problem. If it is not something that can be done at home, they can give you the nearest authorized service location so it can be taken in and fixed. The Concierge number is !-866-561-0450. Best news is the call centers are located IN THE US so you will be able to understand them.

So the second year is not in home service for big screen tvs man talk about a hassle.Also Costco Conceirege Service will only try to help you fix the problem that doesn't sound to encouraging.
How long will the call center be in the USA that may not last long and will they be trained or just reading a script

Wow, you sure seem to have something against the customer. Not everyone abuses the policy, I'm sure. As I stated in a previous post, I think a large number of tv returns were simply due to defective sets.

Just a note, if it weren't for the customer, you might not have that job at Costco.

I have nothing against the average member, But I absolutely despise and have zero respect for those who abuse the policy. And sure, a large number of returns are due to simply because the item was defective. But It is no exageration when I say we would see 7-10+ year old electronics coming back EVERYDAY. That my friend is abuse, regardless of whether or not the set actually broke down. And some members would just come out and say they are returning it to get something new, and that absolutely NOTHING was wrong with the item they are returning. They ADMIT to the abuse, but point to the return policy sign on the wall and say "I am not satisfied" even after a decade.

And your right, if it werent for the member I would not have a job. But if it werent for the abusive members I would have more time to help honest people with honest problems so they can purchase a CHEAPER tv.

I'm looking to get my first HDTV with a budget of $750-$1000, which is got me looking mostly at used models that meet my budget My cabinet will take up to a 46" size even a 50" if it's a "Slim" sytle w/ no side speakers. Mostly though, I'm looking at used 42" sizes.

I'm considering a Pioneer PDP 4304 but I can't find anything on this model on the net...I think it was from sometime in 2005 . Is the 4305 and 4312 (Costo) model the same..??..There is an old AVS forum archive for these two models combined?

Also how do I check for the dreaded "burn in" on a two year old plasma like this.

I know there are some new models for around $1000 or not too much more, but I really want side-by-side PIP...and none of the new budget priced models I've seen so far by the good manufacturers (Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony) have it in that price range.

I'm open to other sets or manufacterers if you have recommendations. Either Plasma, LCD or DLP....I don't know enough to have a preference.

If you're interested, here's our TV needs.

The TV will go in a room that's very bright in the daytime and we watch from 10'-15' at viewing angles of 30 degrees or less...although the TV will go into an antique cabinet that will position the screen a couple of feet over our heads when seated.

Although we watch a lot of TV...it's still quite a bit of SD TV, local news, CNN, and network shows. But mostly we watch movies available on our Comcast cable box...we get all the movie channels our cable co offers. We currently have an older cable box...but it IS digital and will upgrade to what ever is necessary to get HD. I like sports.

We have an audiophile qualtiy stereo setup, so we would like to run all our audio through it. We have a DVD player with digital out (but probably not progresseive scanning) which we run through a separate high end digital audio converter to get the best sound quality digital music into our stereo system. I assume we'll have to upgrade this player to one that has progressive scanning. We will want digital audio out of the TV also to go into our DAC.

Since we don't need speakers and our source will be a cable box, I'm intrigued by the professional monitors only....to get the largest, best quality screen possible with the thinnest frame... But I still want very flexible PIP options.

Even though we like as big as possible, I'm wondering if I should be limit the size of our search to 42"... or even less ......because we still watch a lot of SD programming.

Thanks for any help offered.

Warren C

I don't know if you can answer this but...

What if a repair tech cannot repair it for some reason in the first two years?

Would they do an exchange or a refund if the tech deemed it unrepairable?

Or... if it cannot be reapired to the purchasers satisfaction?

I'm not loking for an excuse to get a refund, just trying to figure out how good the warranty coverage will be ?

Thanks for your input.

If it is obviously defective with in the first 2 years and the manufacturer can not repair the item Costco Concierge will contact our Corporate offices and they will instruct the wharehouse Manager at your location on whether or not to allow the return. That is the ONLY way it will be allowed. If you just show up they will instruct you to call the Concierge service.....

Something that I just found out.... in most cases tv's 32in and above are in home repair covered under the manufactures warranty.

So the second year is not in home service for big screen tvs man talk about a hassle.Also Costco Conceirege Service will only try to help you fix the problem that doesn't sound to encouraging.
How long will the call center be in the USA that may not last long and will they be trained or just reading a script

Big screens are in home, My apologies that just came to my attention. And Concierge employees are highly trained and not just some Joe Blow picked up off the street. The service will stay in the US indefinately I am sure. Costco does not export jobs. the fact that they pay 2-3 times what walmart pays is proof of that.

Who's going to be hurt by this change is not costco. Vizio and Sceptre are really going to take it in the shorts, it's their stock I'd be dumping and fast. As many here have noted, and I feel the same way, you'd only take a chance on a no-name if you were protected by costco's formerly incredible policy. Now, you won't, because what assurance do you have about build quality or the quality of their warranty work after 90 days. Their sales will drop like a rock.

I doubt many people will cancel their costco memberships, though. ................

This is not a bad move for costco.
WOW... sanity rises from the seas of iniquity and grief!

That's exactly what's likely to happen. The 3rd tier manufacturers of flat panel sets will now have to produce a quality product, or die. And Costco accomplished this simply by placing the burden of financing returns back where it belongs -- on the manufacturer of the product.

This will do nothing but help Costco realize gains, as well as assist them in punting the bad members -- who instead of using "buyer beware" as their mantra, have been using "research be damned -- I'll give it try" instead.

And Atlas shrugged... :)

I have nothing against the average member, But I absolutely despise and have zero respect for those who abuse the policy. And sure, a large number of returns are due to simply because the item was defective. But It is no exageration when I say we would see 7-10+ year old electronics coming back EVERYDAY. That my friend is abuse, regardless of whether or not the set actually broke down. And some members would just come out and say they are returning it to get something new, and that absolutely NOTHING was wrong with the item they are returning. They ADMIT to the abuse, but point to the return policy sign on the wall and say "I am not satisfied" even after a decade.

And your right, if it werent for the member I would not have a job. But if it werent for the abusive members I would have more time to help honest people with honest problems so they can purchase a CHEAPER tv.

Just wondering if and if they are how much Costco is paying for you to run damage control on this site if not hope you are not doing this on company time that would be unethical

I'm glad Costco execs finally had the balls to do this policy change.

I go so rarely to costco, but when I do there is always some big TV sitting in the returns section. I can only imagine how much costco has lost in during all these years.

Now I hope that abusers don't enter in a pattern of 90 days upgrades. But I guess costco will know how to deal with such people.

Big screens are in home, My apologies that just came to my attention. And Concierge employees are highly trained and not just some Joe Blow picked up off the street. The service will stay in the US indefinately I am sure. Costco does not export jobs. the fact that they pay 2-3 times what walmart pays is proof of that.

That is great news if it holds true I hope they stand by it.

Just wondering if and if they are how much Costco is paying for you to run damage control on this site if not hope you are not doing this on company time that would be unethical
I am here on my own time, in my own home. And I am not getting reimbursed a dime.

Now I hope that abusers don't enter in a pattern of 90 days upgrades. But I guess costco will know how to deal with such people.

It will be easy to see the 89 day renters as it was easy to see the 5 month PC renters before. When a pattern was discoverd before, that member was asked to no longer purchase Computers from costco as it was obvious our products did not satisfy them, we then instrcut them that future returns of that nature will be denied.

What costco loses in memberships and sales because of this policy.... will more than be made up for by SIGNIFICANTLY less abusive returns, which will allow costco to REDUCE the price of its electronics.

That may prove to be true, but I don't think you'll know for sure until it all plays out. After all, from what I've read Costco receives about 70% of its pre-tax income from membership fees. It's possible Costco has underestimated the number of members they lose because of the change (I don't think we'll really know for another year or two). I'm not saying they will lose more members than they think, I'm just saying I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point.

Costco wants to lose members that would return a plasma after 15 months.

First post, I hope this isn't flame bait.

I am not happy about this policy changed for many of the reasons others have posted above. I think they could have instituted a change in better ways which satisfy their shareholders and still address the nature of how TV technology will evolve over the coming years.

Also, I don't see how anyone can judge whether it's going to work for them for a long time. They may see an immediate bump in profits and they may be able to carry a wider selection of product at more competitive prices, but there will be a long term impact which will take time to shake out.

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine there'll be a lot of Vizio/Viewsonic/Maxent/etc product owners in the coming years taking out their frustrations on Costco. It is my opinion you can bet on two things. First, at least one of these Costco favorites will fold as the industry consolidates. Second, a lot of people who bought them from Costco will be upset when their $1000-$3000 investment lasted more than 2 but less than the 8-15 years their last TV did.

Nonetheless, can anyone really blame Costco? To my knowledge, no other mass market consumer product/technology has ever has seen such rapid gains in performance/technology coupled with such rapid improvements in price-to-performance. If someone can think of one, please let me know. The closest I can imagine was DVD players, but even those reached a point where prices got only incrementally cheaper as did the technology inside the DVD player itself. They had no choice but to make a change.

What really surprised me is they waited for so long to implement the change. I would think we are close (within a couple years) of prices flattening to the point where the only difference between two model years of a name-your-favorite-flat-screen is going to have a marginal difference in price year over year, with marginal improvements to the technology (at the consumer level, anyway).

Once that happens, I would think even the abusers would have to say is it worth it to return this model year 2009 sony 52" LCD which cost me $1000 for a model year 2010 52" LCD which will cost me $949 and has only minor cosmetic changes, a new user interface, a .05 MS faster response time, and is equally reliable?

LT

That may prove to be true, but I don't think you'll know for sure until it all plays out. After all, from what I've read Costco receives about 70% of its pre-tax income from membership fees. It's possible Costco has underestimated the number of members they lose because of the change (I don't think we'll really know for another year or two). I'm not saying they will lose more members than they think, I'm just saying I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point.
I couldn't agree more.... the first indications will be seen in 3 months when the first 90+ day returns start coming back. So we will all have to sit back and wait to see how it all plays out.

However there is no doubt the worst offenders, the true "renters" will cancel their memberships. People who return all their high ticket items 10 years down the road cost Costco more money than they bring in, especially when they go home bragging about how they returned an 8 year old Magnovox Big Screen TV and walked out with a brand new Sony Wega and money still in their pocket. (this actually happened Sunday). Those people only encourage the same in others.

As omletpants said, Costco would rather have those people not buy TV's if that is what they are going to do. Again I am not a spokesperson for Costco but creating a 90 return policy is the polite and PC way of telling those people to go to hell

I am here on my own time, in my own home. And I am not getting reimbursed a dime.

You (currently) have 76 posts to your credit and it looks like all of them are in this one thread. It's no wonder you are seen as a Costco apologist, paid or not.

Now let me point out a few things:

The liberal return policy was Costco's invention, not the customers', and it was the primary reason for the company's success. THEY made the policy for the sole purpose of drawing customers. Now they change the rule and some of you are amazed that customers are upset and no longer interested in their business?

Sam's Club also has a very liberal return policy but Sam's does not suffer the same losses. Why? Because Sams charges the cost of the return back to the manufacturer. Their thinking is if the product is not to the customer's liking it is the fault of the product (manufacturer) and not Sams. Why does the manufacturer go along? Because Sams (Walmart) has the economic clout to force it upon them. Clearly Costco does not have the same clout as Sams.

I am sure there are a lot of citizens in my town that were looking forward to haveing a Costco here mainly because of their return policy. Well, now of course they are in for a big surprise - and so is Costco. They should have saved their money and used it to cover their losses.

Again - this was Costco's policy - so they should live with it. They thrived under it when it was good for them and now they dump it when it bites them (briefly). If a member repeatedly abuses the policy they have every right to cancel the membership. That is the way to handle the problem, not to cut off their nose to spite their face, which is what they are doing to the detriment of all.

creating a 90 return policy is the polite and PC way of telling those people to go to hell

Or a hastily and ill-conceived plan to alienate consumers who would never think of playing the renting game but were considering paying the higher prices because of the peace of mind. I've never played the renting game and certainly my parents have not. It was only about the peace of mind.

There's probably a lot of people in the same boat.

IHowever there is no doubt the worst offenders, the true "renters" will cancel their memberships. People who return all their high ticket items 10 years down the road cost Costco more money than they bring in, especially when they go home bragging about how they returned an 8 year old Magnovox Big Screen TV and walked out with a brand new Sony Wega and money still in their pocket. (this actually happened Sunday). l

I'm sure there have been some abuses, but I find it hard to believe some of these stories. They sound like a bit of an exaggeration. I don't know, maybe it's just that I can't imagine doing something like that that I find it hard to believe that others would. Just curious, why wasn't Costco cancelling these abusers' memberships?

..........
Now let me point out a few things:

The liberal return policy was Costco's invention, not the customers', and it was the primary reason for the company's success. ..........
"Liberal return policies" have been around forever, in many different versions, at many different companies. They don't bring people in... period, full stop.

I really hate to break your bubble, but the primary reason(s) for Costco's success is a great mix of products, at competitive prices, in locations convenient to people. Heck, they even charge you to buy them, and they are still growing!

HOWEVER, if you don't have the products and the prices and the service anjd locations, then you don't have the customers.

I couldn't agree more.... the first indications will be seen in 3 months when the first 90+ day returns start coming back. So we will all have to sit back and wait to see how it all plays out.

However there is no doubt the worst offenders, the true "renters" will cancel their memberships. People who return all their high ticket items 10 years down the road cost Costco more money than they bring in, especially when they go home bragging about how they returned an 8 year old Magnovox Big Screen TV and walked out with a brand new Sony Wega and money still in their pocket. (this actually happened Sunday). Those people only encourage the same in others.

As omletpants said, Costco would rather have those people not buy TV's if that is what they are going to do. Again I am not a spokesperson for Costco but creating a 90 return policy is the polite and PC way of telling those people to go to hell

Just my opinion, but I think one major factor on how successful this move ends up being will be in future memberships. Prior to the policy change you could go to almost any website/forum/blog/etc and people were praising Costco and the return policy. Sure some of those folks were abusers, but some were legitimate customers who just appreciated the peace of mind and ease of dealing with a broken tv 4 months down the road compared to other retailers. Heck even my wife has pimped Costco on an art glass forum. :D I think those types of positive opinions generated a lot of new members for Costco. IMO the big question now is how much impact will this change affect that. Will people who go to various sites and ask where the best deal is for a 42" HDTV still be recommended to go to Costco or will they now be directed someplace else?

I don't think there's any question Costco benefits directly from "firing" the abusers. I believe there will be some loss of other members who don't abuse the policy, but liked the peace of mind that came with the return policy. I also don't believe Costco will be getting as many recommendations as the place to buy that Big Screen TV as they have in the past. I have no idea how it will play out, but I know predicting what the general public will do is a tricky business. :D

I'm sure there have been some abuses, but I find it hard to believe some of these stories. They sound like a bit of an exaggeration. I don't know, maybe it's just that I can't imagine doing something like that that I find it hard to believe that others would. Just curious, why wasn't Costco cancelling these abusers' memberships?

Like you I find it very difficult to understand this activity...., but from the posts I have seen in this thread I believe it was a real problem.

There are a number of folks here at AVS (and many more apparently not on AVS) that felt it was their right to be able to purchase a TV take it home and use it for two years then take it back and trade it in on a newer/larger TV for even less money.

I personally find the very concept so bizarre that it is difficult to believe, but if you read this thread you will find that quite a few folks seem to feel this behavior was perfectly acceptable.

You cannot really even call this renting... more like lending!

Or a hastily and ill-conceived plan to alienate consumers who would never think of playing the renting game but were considering paying the higher prices because of the peace of mind. I've never played the renting game and certainly my parents have not. It was only about the peace of mind.

There's probably a lot of people in the same boat.

I completely agree with your post. The way some here, employees of Costco in particular, make it sound is that everyone who buys a tv from Costco is some kind of an abuser. No mention is made of the many defective sets, i.e. Vizio, that are sold at Costco. I know many people, myself included, who were willing to pay the higher price, and less of a selection, at Costco for the peace of mind that if the tv was defective, it could be easily returned instead of having to deal with the manufacturer.

One of my favorite posts on this subject came a few weeks ago when a poster said: "if Costco changes their return policy then everyone won't get their free upgrade".

Absolutely. I'm a lot less wiling now to consider those Costco off-brands. My wife and I are notoriously slow in doing returns and other things that aren't that important to us.

Without the peace of mind of a long return policy, I think we know ourselves well enough that we won't take a chance in buying something and then being lazy and having the return window close on us. We certainly won't pay more to take that chance either.

Unless Costco starts becoming more price competitive, their arrogance (as I perceive it) in thinking that charging consumers more (in addition to the membership fee) for the privilege of shoppng at their store, will certainly harm them eventually.

Store drone really, rather than Costco employee unless the person is with Costco corporate. Not worth much in listening to his characterization of customers.

One of my favorite posts on this subject came a few weeks ago when a poster said: "if Costco changes their return policy then everyone won't get their free upgrade".


OMG

Kinda bears out what I was talking about........

my .02 cents....

have been a Costco member for several years and always enjoy checking out the large assortment of flat panels

Have also seen a lot of flat panel returns and have been amazed Costco allowed the liberal return policy for so long...sure you pay to be a member and have a right, some would argue, but I think 90 days is enough of a return policy

What I hope will happen is Costco can offer more completive pricing now that they fixed this policy: and if you don't like it, there are plenty of other places to shop

my opinion only of course :)

I think that's fine as long as the prices are competitive (it's a crapshoot as to whether they are). If not, I would argue that Costco has become so full of themselves that they think that their name alone will draw people into paying more for less. I don't think people are that much of sheep--although I could certainly be wrong.

The liberal return policy was Costco's invention, not the customers', and it was the primary reason for the company's success.

And the proof, statistical or otherwise, for this bold claim is . . . ?

I have nothing against the average member, But I absolutely despise and have zero respect for those who abuse the policy.Abuse of this kind raises the membership rates plus the cost of all goods and services for those who don't look to take unfair advantage of Costco's return policy.

Most people like to have their cake and eat it too... but those days are gone because many individuals, including some AVSF members, found a way to "beat the system" which in turn ruined Costco's liberal return policy for the rest of it's members.

I recently bought a TV from costco back in DEC 2006; does anyone know if my "grandfather" clause concerning the OLD return policy be valid? I am assuming so, since I purchased the product under that last return policy...

any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.... THANK YOU!!

...sure you pay to be a member and have a right


I believe a better word would be privlage. I don't think costco when they started this liberal policy that it was to be abused. But reading this thread for a few years some thought it was an upgrade policy.

If everyone would have played fair it still would be there. But to punish the few you have to punish all. My 02 cents.

Abuse of this kind raises the membership rates plus the cost of all goods and services for those who don't look to take unfair advantage of Costco's return policy.

Most people like to have their cake and eat it too... but those days are gone because many individuals, including some AVSF members, found a way to "beat the system" which in turn ruined Costco's liberal return policy for the rest of it's members.

That would be like Corporation love to have their cake and eat it to,also most companys have found all kind of ways to screw the customer...

I recently bought a TV from costco back in DEC 2006; does anyone know if my "grandfather" clause concerning the OLD return policy be valid? I am assuming so, since I purchased the product under that last return policy...

any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.... THANK YOU!!

No grandfather policy. Why would you need one, you have had the set for 90 days and should know if you want to keep it. If a problem occurs later it's covered under warranty.

And the proof, statistical or otherwise, for this bold claim is . . . ?

What you think the customers were the ones who thought up Costcos plan they did it to build a customer base and it worked very,very well.I have no problem with their new return plan as a matter of fact thats where my wife is at this moment.

I believe a better word would be privlage. I don't think costco when they started this liberal policy that it was to be abused. But reading this thread for a few years some thought it was an upgrade policy.

If everyone would have played fair it still would be there. But to punish the few you have to punish all. My 02 cents.

I really believe it would not be every company is changing the way they do things they have built up their customer base and no longer need it.
I have no problem with their new return plan as a matter of fact thats where my wife is at this moment.I did buy a couple of plasma panels the first went out in 3 days the second went out in a week burning smell from back of unit had never thought of buying something like this from them always used B&M Electronics stores and was treated badly by the lady at the return desk all companys have a few *ss holes working for them.
But this won't keep me from using them for other purchases
I just went back to Best Buy got the TH-50PX600U for 3 bills less than what they wanted for the TH-50PX6U then bought the Mack warranty from someone on this board for a really great price now covered for 4 years.

I recently bought a TV from costco back in DEC 2006; does anyone know if my "grandfather" clause concerning the OLD return policy be valid? I am assuming so, since I purchased the product under that last return policy...

any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.... THANK YOU!!


Nope. It was discussed in an earlier corporate "memo" (was posted some posts back), and in some interviews regarding the potential for policy change, but when I sent a message to Customer Service specifically about that, they just responded with the return policy: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell, with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD/MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

Projectors and dvd players are covered by the old policy, right?

Nope. It was discussed in an earlier corporate "memo" (was posted some posts back), and in some interviews regarding the potential for policy change, but when I sent a message to Customer Service specifically about that, they just responded with the return policy: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell, with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD/MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

I got an email from corporate and was told if you bought the tv before the policy change, you are grandfathered in. I believe that memo that was posted states this too.

No grandfather policy. Why would you need one, you have had the set for 90 days and should know if you want to keep it. If a problem occurs later it's covered under warranty.


You think Costco will somehow develop a "no lemons" policy to roll into this program? It seems like the company is a little quiet on the specifics on the program unless they seriously are just going to extend the "written" warranty of the device, which probably leaves a lot to be desired for many who have dealt with any manufacturer warranty problems? I've been pretty lucky so far, but have read horror stories all over about dealing with "warranty" issues. It was always nice to be able to remind Sony or whoever that you could always just return the set to Costco if they weren't willing/able to fix it to your satisfaction.

For example, a common return complaints, dead/bright pixels, banding, back light leakage, will be laughed at because they're not covered by warranty, you're stuck with a lemon. If you thought you were covered because you bought the set prior to the return policy, unfortunately you're SOL and there's nothing you can do about it.

IN addition, my thinking then if you're stuck with dealing with the manufacturer for repair issues, you should just end up going with the lowest cost retailer and purchase a 4-5 year service contract. Heck, with many of those contracts they'll even come out once a year and clean your TV and replace bulbs (another item that isn't covered by warranty).

I got an email from corporate and was told if you bought the tv before the policy change, you are grandfathered in. I believe that memo that was posted states this too.

Maybe they're just behind on their e-mail response because this is what they wrote me:

Thank you for your email to Costco Wholesale.

We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund, subject to certain product-specific limitations on electronics, alcohol and tobacco. TVs, computers, iPod/MP3 players, cameras/camcorders and wireless phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a full refund.

Members? receive free technical support for the lifetime of TVs, computers, iPod/MP3 players, cameras/camcorders and extended 2 year manufacturer warranty on Televisions and Computers by calling Costco Concierge Services at toll free 1-866-861-0450.

We offer two convenient return methods. Costco.com refunds include shipping and handling fees.

1) For an immediate refund simply return your purchase to any Costco location. To find a location, please click http://www.costco.com/Warehouse/Locator.aspx .

2) Please reply to this e-mail at customerservice@costco.com with the following information if you are unable to return the product to the nearest Costco location due to product size and weight. You will be contacted regarding your return within 5 to 7 business days. Please include your name, order confirmation number, phone number and the reason for the return.


We value your business and thank you for shopping costco.com!

Thank you,

Costco Wholesale Corporation
customerservice@costco.com


----- ######## Wrote -----
I'm sure you've been asked this hundreds of times,

Will electronics purchased prior to the return policy change be
grandfathered under the old return policy, or be subject to the 90-day
return period?

Projectors and dvd players are covered by the old policy, right?


I think this is unclear. I guess until I see it on the website I wouldn't believe it. Even then you're probably at the whim of the manager on duty.

You think Costco will somehow develop a "no lemons" policy to roll into this program? It seems like the company is a little quiet on the specifics on the program unless they seriously are just going to extend the "written" warranty of the device, which probably leaves a lot to be desired for many who have dealt with any manufacturer warranty problems?

They are moving to an industry standard model which means a finite return timeframe, then everything shifts to the manufacturers warranty. All "no lemons" policies are the manufacturers, not the retailer because they involve what happens AFTER you receive multiple service (warranty) calls.

Think of "no lemon" policies on car purchases. It's not the dealer that makes you whole but the manufacturer.

Not sure if this is the right place, but CompUSA is closing over half their stores in the next 90 days.

May be some bargains out there.

Story (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=software&articleId=9011981&taxonomyId=18&intsrc=kc_top)

I'm sure there have been some abuses, but I find it hard to believe some of these stories. They sound like a bit of an exaggeration. I don't know, maybe it's just that I can't imagine doing something like that that I find it hard to believe that others would. Just curious, why wasn't Costco cancelling these abusers' memberships?

I have not exagerated ONE story. I don't know how you expect me to prove it, other than you stopping by your local Costco and asking them about some of the most ridiculous returns they have seen. I am sure they will share some stories with you. If you would like I can post a link to an image of a receipt which I hold in my hand for an $1,800 magnovox 9P6044C purchased 1/21/00 that was returned IN FULL on sunday. I Kept it as a souvenir of one of the most ridiculous returns I have seen it a while. If fact it is printed with INK, BEFORE THE AGE OF THERMAL PAPER.

And Costco HAS BEEN canceling the memberships of some of the worst abusers.

Just my opinion, but I think one major factor on how successful this move ends up being will be in future memberships. Prior to the policy change you could go to almost any website/forum/blog/etc and people were praising Costco and the return policy. Sure some of those folks were abusers, but some were legitimate customers who just appreciated the peace of mind and ease of dealing with a broken tv 4 months down the road compared to other retailers. Heck even my wife has pimped Costco on an art glass forum. :D I think those types of positive opinions generated a lot of new members for Costco. IMO the big question now is how much impact will this change affect that. Will people who go to various sites and ask where the best deal is for a 42" HDTV still be recommended to go to Costco or will they now be directed someplace else?

I don't think there's any question Costco benefits directly from "firing" the abusers. I believe there will be some loss of other members who don't abuse the policy, but liked the peace of mind that came with the return policy. I also don't believe Costco will be getting as many recommendations as the place to buy that Big Screen TV as they have in the past. I have no idea how it will play out, but I know predicting what the general public will do is a tricky business. :D


You can find an equal amount of threads/forums/blogs/etc... of people bragging about how they "upgraded" to new technology. That is what led me to this site.

I completely agree with your post. The way some here, employees of Costco in particular, make it sound is that everyone who buys a tv from Costco is some kind of an abuser. No mention is made of the many defective sets, i.e. Vizio, that are sold at Costco. I know many people, myself included, who were willing to pay the higher price, and less of a selection, at Costco for the peace of mind that if the tv was defective, it could be easily returned instead of having to deal with the manufacturer.

I have mentioned several times that not every return was abuse, that not every member was upgrading their purchases. There is a great deal of returns that are due to defective merchandise. At no time has ANYBODY said otherwise. In fact I beleive I have said at least once if not more, the MAJORITY OF RETURNS ARE LEGIT, however the few who DO ABUSE are so great in number that it is causing far too many problems.

I am here to clear up some confusion....

COSTCO WILL REFUND YOUR PURCHASE IN FULL IF YOU PURCHASED YOUR ITEM BEFORE THIS NEW RETURN POLICY HAS COME INTO EFFECT

I spoke to TWO representatives at costco today concerning this matter and they relieved me that MY return policy will be honored :)

Cash0071: If you purchased your television before the new policy takes effect than you are covered by the old return policy.

ya, that is what i wanted to make sure b/c my TV was a large investment for me so i wanted to make sure it still was under warranty

You (currently) have 76 posts to your credit and it looks like all of them are in this one thread. It's no wonder you are seen as a Costco apologist, paid or not.

Yes the vast majority of my posts are in this thread, and one other. This site was broought to my attention by a co-worker and close friend who showed me posts of people BRAGGING about return old/dead Technology for brand new stuff. I was already well aware of the policy change that was coming so I decided to join in and share my opinions and inside experiences. I am not a "Costco Appologist" I am a Costco Employee, Shareholder, Member, and a consumer who see's a problem with people "upgrading", "renting", and "borrowing" from a Retailer. If I worked for Best Buy, I would still be here saying the same thing....minus the personal experiences and examples of abuse.



Now let me point out a few things:

The liberal return policy was Costco's invention, not the customers', and it was the primary reason for the company's success. THEY made the policy for the sole purpose of drawing customers. Now they change the rule and some of you are amazed that customers are upset and no longer interested in their business?

Sam's Club also has a very liberal return policy but Sam's does not suffer the same losses. Why? Because Sams charges the cost of the return back to the manufacturer. Their thinking is if the product is not to the customer's liking it is the fault of the product (manufacturer) and not Sams. Why does the manufacturer go along? Because Sams (Walmart) has the economic clout to force it upon them. Clearly Costco does not have the same clout as Sams.

I am sure there are a lot of citizens in my town that were looking forward to haveing a Costco here mainly because of their return policy. Well, now of course they are in for a big surprise - and so is Costco. They should have saved their money and used it to cover their losses.

Again - this was Costco's policy - so they should live with it. They thrived under it when it was good for them and now they dump it when it bites them (briefly). If a member repeatedly abuses the policy they have every right to cancel the membership. That is the way to handle the problem, not to cut off their nose to spite their face, which is what they are doing to the detriment of all.

I remember the days when other retailers had long refund policies.... but surprise! People abused it. You can't expect a company to hold onto a policy which is causing it to lose money. Some (the minority) say this shift in policy will run Costco into the ground. When in fact it was the excessive returns which WAS running it into the ground. EVERY EARNINGS REPORT Costco had to find ways of explaining why so much money was lost on returns. This was NOT the case 10 years ago.

And you can say what you want about Sams but Costco beats Sams in every catagory. Sales, Sales per square foot, member base, member renwal rates, product selection, and most of all pays 2-3 times more and gives the best benifits in retail, even to part time employees.


Again - this was Costco's policy - so they should live with it. They thrived under it when it was good for them and now they dump it when it bites them (briefly).

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous statement I have seen here yet. I don't even have a response to humor such a comment. For one they are not abandoning the "open ended" policy entirely. What other retailer allows you to return cd's, dvd's, software, etc... that is open, used, and a year old for CASH. You can still purchase whatever you want and return it when ever you want...just not TV's, Computers, Cameras/Camcorders, Mp3 players, and Cell phones.

And Costco HAS BEEN canceling the memberships of some of the worst abusers.

Sometimes you have to fire your customers

Does anyone else see the irony of employees and others worried first about the loss of profits due to excessive returns but bragging that Costco pays 2-3 times more than their competitors? Not something many stockholders would want to hear.

I don't understand why CostMo had to implement this new 90 day return policy since they monitor people who abuse their return priviledges and cancel their membership. They should have been able to keep the old policy for the members who don't abuse it. The main reason for the membership and higher costs of the sets was the peace of mind of never having to worry if your TV became defective. Maybe CostMo should just quit selling electronics altogether.

Quite honestly, I don't find the employees anywhere near 2-3 times better than those of other stores. When a new CEO takes over in a few years, he should cut the employee salaries and benefits. When you're running on thin margins and overpaying your people, it doesn't do anything good for your bottom line. Employees at that level are fungible.

Pay just a small bit over market rates for employees to cut those SG&A expenses so you can make up for the few abuses of people and bring back the benefits (and add new ones) that people enjoy. The employees will stick around for the little extra they get there. People will tolerate a little less in employee happiness for better pricing and better member benefits.

Pay just a small bit over market rates for employees to cut those SG&A expenses so you can make up for the few abuses of people and bring back the benefits (and add new ones) that people enjoy. The employees will stick around for the little extra they get there. People will tolerate a little less in employee happiness for better pricing and better member benefits.

Unbelievable! Your saying cut employee wages so that abusers can have the privilage of ripping off Costco. Better to fire the abusers
:eek: :eek: :eek:

I do not feel bad! If costco refund my membership and strike me off, because when I purchased my tv in Nov 2006, on repeated questioning/inquiring was told unanimously to not have prob returning exchange if for any reason it does not work out for me( not that it died only) :confused:

Wish Costco would switch to a prorated return. Refund price minus 10% for every year you had it. That way renters actually pay rent. Honest customers get a fair warranty. Costco doesn't lose money.

Lets say your $3000 Sony broke after 5 years, You return it for $1500. This money will be more than enough to buy an equivalent TV at then lower prices,so you are happy. Costco would have pocketed $1500 plus $250 membership fees over 5 years and $500 they make on your other purchases. And Costco probably had $750 mark up to begin with , so Costco breaks even. And makes tons of money on TVs not returned. Everyone's happy.

Of course this will never happen.

Wish Costco would switch to a prorated return. Refund price minus 10% for every year you had it. That way renters actually pay rent. Honest customers get a fair warranty. Costco doesn't lose money.

Lets say your $3000 Sony broke after 5 years, You return it for $1500. This money will be more than enough to buy an equivalent TV at then lower prices,so you are happy. Costco would have pocketed $1500 plus $250 membership fees over 5 years and $500 they make on your other purchases. And Costco probably had $750 mark up to begin with , so Costco breaks even. And makes tons of money on TVs not returned. Everyone's happy.

Of course this will never happen.

I would be fine with that! they have minimal selection, atleast 25% above market selling price, we have to pay 8-9% sales tax and shipping too, plus california recycle lol

Unbelievable! Your saying cut employee wages so that abusers can have the privilage of ripping off Costco. Better to fire the abusers
:eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm saying cut employee wages so that Costco can grow their business further. It would be great if the abusers went away. But, I think you would attract more customers with better priveleges, not less. You can finance that through lower overhead.

So, if they are truly paying way over market for these people, then the SG&A expenses must be way out of line (I haven't looked at their financial statements). It's not worth it. You can still keep the employees relatively happy by paying a little over market and keep your bottom line healthier for shareholders. Other than for an employee or two, most probably aren't worth throwing the pay structure out of whack with the industry.

Goober, you don't get it. These are seperate issues and stopping the customer fraud is the real problem they are trying to solve. Allowing the customers to perpetrate fraud is not a benefit to Costco members.

I get it just fine. I've been in big business for a long time. This is about stemming the decline in profits caused by the cost of these returns. Costco maintains thinner margins than most any retailer. If you mess with their model (through excessive returns), then those thin margins get too thin and you get shreholders howling because of lower earnings, etc.

My point is that Costco's model needs adjustment. Continue to take away member benefits and eventually you'll drive away your customer base. Instead, cut the pay for these store employees to where they are better compensated than most other retailers' employees, but don't go beyond 5-10% higher. This will lead to higher profits. Take a portion of those higher profits and institute additional member benefits to ensure that your customer base grows/continues to grow.

It's not hard to understand.

From the words of one of the most under paid CEO's in America (Jim Sinegal) Regarding his belief of paying a generous wage....

Well, first of all, we have a very low turnover in our company. Our turnover is something in the 20% range, and that is including a lot of seasonal hires that we have both in the summer and at Christmas. After employees have been with us for more than a year, that turnover rate goes below 6%, so we take great pride in the fact that people join us and they stay with us. Our attitude has always been that if you hire good people and provide good wages and good jobs and more than that -- if you provide careers -- that good things will happen to your company. I think we can say that that has been proved by the quality of people that we have and how they have built our organization.

"We pay much better than Wal-Mart," Sinegal says. "That's not altruism. It's good business."
"We could move [some operations] to Bangladesh or somewhere. But what kind of message would that send to our employees? Not a good one, I think."

One reason Costco can afford to pay it's employees well is it isn't shelling out millions a year to it's board members, CEO, CFO, COO, etc. Jim makes a wopping $350k plus moderate stock options.

[QUOTE=GooberedUp]I get it just fine. I've been in big business for a long time. This is about stemming the decline in profits caused by the cost of these returns. Costco maintains thinner margins than most any retailer. If you mess with their model (through excessive returns), then those thin margins get too thin and you get shreholders howling because of lower earnings, etc.

My point is that Costco's model needs adjustment. Continue to take away member benefits and eventually you'll drive away your customer base. Instead, cut the pay for these store employees to where they are better compensated than most other retailers' employees, but don't go beyond 5-10% higher. This will lead to higher profits. Take a portion of those higher profits and institute additional member benefits to ensure that your customer base grows/continues to grow.

It's not hard to understand.[/QUOTE

Ya and you will have Walmart employees most hate their jobs and the employees treat the customers like crap.
Ya lets just keep treating employees like trash and you will have your third world country of course that would make most big business very happy we may be at that point already. :mad:

Goober, customer fraud is not a member benefit

Goober, customer fraud is not a member benefit

No, but good refund policies are, and that's what was taken away from members.

[QUOTE=GooberedUp]I get it just fine. I've been in big business for a long time. This is about stemming the decline in profits caused by the cost of these returns. Costco maintains thinner margins than most any retailer. If you mess with their model (through excessive returns), then those thin margins get too thin and you get shreholders howling because of lower earnings, etc.

My point is that Costco's model needs adjustment. Continue to take away member benefits and eventually you'll drive away your customer base. Instead, cut the pay for these store employees to where they are better compensated than most other retailers' employees, but don't go beyond 5-10% higher. This will lead to higher profits. Take a portion of those higher profits and institute additional member benefits to ensure that your customer base grows/continues to grow.

It's not hard to understand.[/QUOTE

Ya and you will have Walmart employees most hate their jobs and the employees treat the customers like crap.
Ya lets just keep treating employees like trash and you will have your third world country of course that would make most big business very happy we may be at that point already. :mad:

Read what I wrote. Pay higher than those people, but not terribly much so. There's no need. They'll still be happy, but you'll cut down excessive expenses.

No, but good refund policies are, and that's what was taken away from members.

Costco considers it customer fraud and their opinion is the only one that matters

From the words of one of the most under paid CEO's in America (Jim Sinegal) Regarding his belief of paying a generous wage....




One reason Costco can afford to pay it's employees well is it isn't shelling out millions a year to it's board members, CEO, CFO, COO, etc. Jim makes a wopping $350k plus moderate stock options.

The executive management salaries even if they were much higher, when taken as a whole even, and compared to the company's revenues and payroll figures, are likely negligible. I just don't have the time to look through the annual report or 10Qs. It would be a set of simple calculations.

Costco considers it customer fraud and their opinion is the only one that matters

Not really. It's a publicly traded company and shareholders and shareholder return is what really matters. If the latest move causes a decrease in revenues somehow, then shareholders won't be happy. With increasing revenues they will. We'll have to see.

By the way, it's not fraud. It doesn't meet the elements of fraud. Characterizing it as that is silly.

No, but good refund policies are, and that's what was taken away from members.
The New policy is still a pretty damn good one. And will once again be the best return policy everywhere once Sams follows suit. Sams followed costco into the 6month computer policy, they will do the same again. Besides the change was only in a few catagories, it was not a complete overhaul of the policy.

Not really. It's a publicly traded company and shareholders and shareholder return is what really matters. If the latest move causes a decrease in revenues somehow, then shareholders won't be happy. With increasing revenues they will. We'll have to see.


Funny how you say that, yet hold the opinion that you do towards this shift in policy. It was the shareholders who presured Costco into doing something to stop the excessive returns.

From a Seattle News paper

The change was implemented because the company was losing "tens of millions of dollars" in returns, Galanti said. He declined to specify the losses.

Galanti said one of the reasons for the policy change was Costco members would buy big-screen TVs and then return them months later, when newer and less expensive models went on sale.

He said the practice had become so prevalent one member recently wrote the company saying she was disappointed because she had heard Costco was going to stop its "free TV upgrade policy."

Galanti said Costco never had such a policy.

"One of the things that has been an issue from shareholders is controlling the cost of electronics returns," Galanti said. "We went from a policy that might have been abused."

The new two-year warranty is not in addition to any manufacturer's warranty. For example, if a computer company provides a warranty for six months, then Costco will cover the warranty for the next 18 months, Galanti said.

"Warranty does not mean we will replace it if it's run over by your car," Galanti said.

My .02 - while I would prefer that Costco keep the anytime return policy, I completely understand why they are changing as a member - it was getting abused. The unlimited return policy is a great piece of mind for Costco members and I think it does contribute to some of the impulse or discretionary purchases as the customer knows that if it is lousy quality or breaks quickly it isn't a hassle to return. That said, Costco general avoids this problem by stocking higher quality goods. My wife and I agree that it just hurts the good members by taking a hit from the upgraders. Last week I saw a return of a projection set that had to be at least 3-4 years old and looked like it had been thru the ringer.

We also have to realize that AVS forums has a pretty small subset of overall Costco members and the vast majority have never or will never buy a TV set from Costco so any changes are not going to effect them.

I have been looling at buying an HDTV at Costco because of some of the questionable quality and reliability of some of the off brands (and majors) and new LCD and plasma sets in general and the return policy is a big factor. If you drop $2,500 on a tv set, you want a reasonable assurance or protection if it fails in the first year or two. I guess you still have some of that but it's not quite the same. Lower pricing and a more expansive selection will offset the curtailing of the return policy. They might get a short term bump on a few models as people buy to get in under the wire.

While it "hurts" members somewhat, I think the real losers on this will be Vizio and Sceptre, etc. like someone had previously mentioned. I'm there about once every 10 days and my wife is in once or twice a week and for the last few months every time I see HD sets in the return area and usually a bunch of Vizios. I've also seen a bunch of Vizios for sale on craigslist from a local wholesaler selling refurbed and open box sets that are the Costco models and I'm pretty sure Costco takes the returns and pallets them and sells them in bulk at a loss. I'm not sure of the math but the Vizio returns probably negate a chunk of the margin on those lines. If you don't have a long return period, you probably think twice or three times about buying a Vizio and probably just pass on it unless the price differential is even greater than now. I know the warranty is extended but the warranty service can be a hassle and if a plasma set starts to go you probably don't want it fixed = you want a new one.

Bottom line, I won't shop at Costco any less, I just will think a little harder before buying a higher-end TV set.

I get it just fine. I've been in big business for a long time. This is about stemming the decline in profits caused by the cost of these returns. Costco maintains thinner margins than most any retailer. If you mess with their model (through excessive returns), then those thin margins get too thin and you get shreholders howling because of lower earnings, etc.

My point is that Costco's model needs adjustment. Continue to take away member benefits and eventually you'll drive away your customer base. Instead, cut the pay for these store employees to where they are better compensated than most other retailers' employees, but don't go beyond 5-10% higher. This will lead to higher profits. Take a portion of those higher profits and institute additional member benefits to ensure that your customer base grows/continues to grow.

It's not hard to understand.


Well who are you to say what someone should or should not be paid to work in any retail business that you do not own? Why should someone take a cut in pay, just in order to keep you happy, and some others with policy that can easily be abused? What about you, do you want the general public writing out and signing your pay checks on whatever foolish whim they may have about you? Maybe a lot of people might think that you make way too much money, and that you should get something like a mandatory 50% cut in pay!

Funny how you say that, yet hold the opinion that you do towards this shift in policy. It was the shareholders who presured Costco into doing something to stop the excessive returns.



I'm not debating that. I personally feel that ending the policy in the way that they did it will potentially hurt them. There were other ways of cutting the returns so as to not affect those that weren't taking advantage of the system.

Well who are you to say what someone should or should not be paid to work in any retail business that you do not own? Why should someone take a cut in pay, just in order to keep you happy, and some others with policy that can easily be abused? What about you, do you want the general public writing out and signing your pay checks on whatever foolish whim they may have about you? Maybe a lot of people might think that you make way too much money, and that you should get something like a mandatory 50% cut in pay!

If I were the majority shareholders, I would look at those SG&A expenses really hard and make sure that they are in line with the rest of the industry. They may already do that--I don't know. But if they aren't, then you do what you need to do in order to reduce them without adversly impacting your business. It's really management 101.

Hey, like it or not, a publicly traded business has to do what is best for the shreholders, since those are the people that own the company. Store worker bees are a simple fungible commodity. We all are to a greater or lesser degree. In this case, I bet that if Costco were to implement my suggestions, the shareholders would be happier. How could they not be? You still retain mostly happy employees, you implement a system to cut down some of the returns expenses and you lower overhead. Personally, I think Costco the company has outgrown the present CEO. He's not the mayor of Mayberry. Yet, he's mired in the same mentality that I think is/will soon be hampering company growth.

As for me, I'll never have that worry of someone deciding to lower my salary--I'm already at the level that the market has predetermined that I should be paid. Costco should do the same with its store drones.

Because of my background, I can look at this a little emotionlessly and in a more businesslike manner. You need to calm down and also look at it a little less passionately. Business is business.

Isnt Costco an unauthorized retailer for some electronics? Does that not void the manufacturers warranty?

Secondly, anyone ever use Costco's price protection? I bought a tv in January and they dropped the price on it within 30 days of purchase. But they wouldnt credit me the difference because I didnt request a refund within 30 days; I wasnt in a store until 38 days after purchase. Does this sound right? Is it the same with other retailers with price protection policies, that you have to actually make the claim within 30 days?

Just because every other Company pays minimum wage, or slightly higher, does not mean Costco should. Costco has payed good wages from the start, and such practice has worked well. Costco also had an "open ended" return policy from the start.... that worked out for a LONG TIME and in recent years that policy proved to be a burden on the Company, and on it's shareholders. If you pay your employees well, they will take care of business for you and they will reward your shareholders. Happy employees mean happy members. My building has some employees that have been with the company since 1983 when Costco started. We have MANY, MANY members who drive to our store specificly because some of these employees who have been shopping since 1983 and know them by name.

I am impressed by...and tend to return to business' with familiar faces. Places that remember me as much as I remember them. You walk into walmart, ralphs/kroger, Albertsons, etc... and there are new faces everyday.

Isnt Costco an unauthorized retailer for some electronics? Does that not void the manufacturers warranty?

Secondly, anyone ever use Costco's price protection? I bought a tv in January and they dropped the price on it within 30 days of purchase. But they wouldnt credit me the difference because I didnt request a refund within 30 days; I wasnt in a store until 38 days after purchase. Does this sound right? Is it the same with other retailers with price protection policies, that you have to actually make the claim within 30 days?

Kind of an "unwritten" policy. Nowhere is it actually written in with the return policy that price adjustments will be done... but they will honor price adjustments with in 30days WITH ORIGINAL RECEIPT. I have seen some exceptions made for people slightly over 30 days but not often. I have also seen people come in 3-4 months later wanting the difference in price. Those requests are quickly denied.

Just because every other Company pays minimum wage, or slightly higher, does not mean Costco should. Costco has payed good wages from the start, and such practice has worked well. Costco also had an "open ended" return policy from the start.... that worked out for a LONG TIME and in recent years that policy proved to be a burden on the Company, and on it's shareholders. If you pay your employees well, they will take care of business for you and they will reward your shareholders. Happy employees mean happy members. My building has some employees that have been with the company since 1983 when Costco started. We have MANY, MANY members who drive to our store specificly because some of these employees who have been shopping since 1983 and know them by name.

I am impressed by...and tend to return to business' with familiar faces. Places that remember me as much as I remember them. You walk into walmart, ralphs/kroger, Albertsons, etc... and there are new faces everyday.

Well, many, many members also did not abuse the return policy, yet Costco changed. High payrolls are also a burden on the company. In the end, I bet the significantly higher pay rates (if they are that much higher) will eventually go away as younger and more aggressive management takes over. I've personally seen it happen in four fortune 500 companies for which I've worked. All were family/founder owned and managed within the last 2 generations. All the companies became a lot less paternal eventually.

Costco has a little way to go, but it's going to be just like the others.

Ohh my dear!!!! A company changes its refund policy to still the best refund policy and all you can do is talk crap. Just don't shop there anymore if its that big of a deal to you.
I also work for Costco, and I can say that our electronics sales have INCREASED this week due to the new free two year warranty. Members are happy as they want longer warranties, and they are totally cool with the 90 days refund period as its 3-6x better than the other guys who charge you for a warranty. I also had a member tell me that Best Buy was selling the same exact Magellan GPS for 150 bucks more than us!!!

Our store is packed all the time, our local sams club is dead. You'd be doing me a favor if you canceled your membership with Costco. We have the best prices, the best refund period, and a free 2 year warranty. If thats not enough, please go elsewhere!!!!

Well, many, many members also did not abuse the return policy, yet Costco changed. High payrolls are also a burden on the company. In the end, I bet the significantly higher pay rates (if they are that much higher) will eventually go away as younger and more aggressive management takes over. I've personally seen it happen in four fortune 500 companies for which I've worked. All were family/founder owned and managed within the last 2 generations. All the companies became a lot less paternal eventually.

Costco has a little way to go, but it's going to be just like the others.

Dude, you really suck at retail management. Coscto is the fastest growing and most profitable membership club out there. Our employees are of a way higher caliber than walmart, sams, or other retailers. Our members also notice this fact. When we slip up, then you can be a monday morning QB, but right now, we are winning the game, so I'd stop all the back seat driving and trash talking, and stick to building your own billion dollar business. You can pay them whatever rates you want. And get over our refund policy, there is nothing wrong with it. Please just cancel your membership if Coscto sucks that bad to you.

I get it just fine. I've been in big business for a long time. This is about stemming the decline in profits caused by the cost of these returns. Costco maintains thinner margins than most any retailer. If you mess with their model (through excessive returns), then those thin margins get too thin and you get shreholders howling because of lower earnings, etc.

My point is that Costco's model needs adjustment. Continue to take away member benefits and eventually you'll drive away your customer base. Instead, cut the pay for these store employees to where they are better compensated than most other retailers' employees, but don't go beyond 5-10% higher. This will lead to higher profits. Take a portion of those higher profits and institute additional member benefits to ensure that your customer base grows/continues to grow.

It's not hard to understand.
This is why you aren't a ceo. Some cyber dork who wants a free tv upgrade every year thinks he has the know how to "adjust the Costco business model"and make the most profitable club store even more so. Way easier said than done. Your plan is to slash wages, which is not only bad for employees, and their families, but also for local economies. Most employees will quit anyways, and they will be replaced by the same toothless creeps that slither around Wal-marts for just over minimum wage. BTW our member base will grow just fine with or without a "rape us as much as you want" refund policy. But if we had walmart clones running our stores, they would surely drop.

As for me, I'll never have that worry of someone deciding to lower my salary--I'm already at the level that the market has predetermined that I should be paid.

Because of my background, I can look at this a little emotionlessly and in a more businesslike manner.


So in other words.......
You are in a position with a salary that you don't worry about being low, and are probably also paid a amount that many other people would consider you being overpaid for what you actually do for it. Contrary to what you may think. The "market" does not set the pay scales for everyone, so that they are all paid the same for the same type of work. Nor does it set their benefits as all being the same. Thinking like yours, is what makes considering joining unions so popular for many people.

Is it the same with other retailers with price protection policies, that you have to actually make the claim within 30 days?

If they say 30 days, it pretty much means 30 days. Why do you think they would set a limit, unless they intend to use and enforce it?
Just try getting Circuit City or Best Buy to do a price match after 30 days have expired.

OK, after reading this thread for the last few days, I have a few thoughts that I think I must share. So here is my 2 cents.

1. I don't know why some of you people think that Costco will lose allot of money and a mass exodus of members will leave because of the new policy. Have you been to a Costco and observed the clientele?

I have been a member for 12+ years. Every time I go, there is always allot of people in line not for consumer electronics, but for groceries, office supplies or small business owners buying items that they need for their store or shop. Not to mention the clothing section or people purchasing CDs and DVDs. I think I once saw someone buying a TV. TV purchases are a very small percentage of Costco's sales. So I think that they will stick around for a very long time.

2. The new return policy is only for consumer electronics. It's not everything that they sell. I can still buy a bicycle there and if the chain breaks in 8 months. I can still return it and get a refund.

3. I think the new policy is fine. 90 days is plenty of time to figure out if you like the TV or not. And the 2 year extended warranty is more than generous. Try ask for it at BB or CC and they will ask you for $200+. I understand why Costco did it. How would you feel if you own a store and a customer buys a digital camera. That person returns to the store and exchange the camera every time the newer model comes out with more mega pixels. That is a waist of time and lost the potential profit on that camera that you just exchanged to the customer.

4. Why are you people complaining about the Concierge Technical Support Service when no one has used it yet. Who knows? It could be better than the tech support you get from the manufacture. This is a wait and see thing for me. There is no reason to complain about it at the moment.

Now I will take my 2 pennies back and enjoy the other forums here in AVS.

Not sure if this is the right place, but CompUSA is closing over half their stores in the next 90 days.

May be some bargains out there.

Story (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=software&articleId=9011981&taxonomyId=18&intsrc=kc_top)It's interesting that Tweeters, Circuit City and CompUSA are all downsizing while Best Buy remains profitable. What's different about Best Buy?

With stores like Costco, BJs Wholesale Club, Wal Mart/Sams Club all selling FP TVs, it's understandable the big box retailers can't make enough profit marketing these electronics especially with the precipitous prices drops during the past two years.

Hopefully the warehouse chains will start offering a better grade of electronics instead of the bottom-of-the-line offerings from Pioneer & Panasonic.

It's interesting that Tweeters, Circuit City and CompUSA are all downsizing while Best Buy remains profitable. What's different about Best Buy?

With stores like Costco, BJs Wholesale Club, Wal Mart/Sams Club all selling FP TVs, it's understandable the big box retailers can't make enough profit marketing these electronics especially with the precipitous prices drops during the past two years.

Hopefully the warehouse chains will start offering a better grade of electronics instead of the bottom-of-the-line offerings from Pioneer & Panasonic.


A good discussion started here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9908319#post9908319) . I think having high prices and bad customer service plays a big part on CompUSA's downsize.

Maybe they're just behind on their e-mail response because this is what they wrote me:

What you received is just their boilerplate/automated response. At first that was what they sent me too. Then I contacted their members services and received this. The date they are quoting is because I bought my tv from costco.com, thus the 2/26/07 date.

"Thank you for your e-mail to Costco Wholesale.

The new 90 day return policy is for orders/items purchased on or after 2/26/2007. The lifetime return policy still apply's to your television.

Thank you,

Costco Wholesale Corporation"

They are moving to an industry standard model which means a finite return timeframe, then everything shifts to the manufacturers warranty. All "no lemons" policies are the manufacturers, not the retailer because they involve what happens AFTER you receive multiple service (warranty) calls.

Think of "no lemon" policies on car purchases. It's not the dealer that makes you whole but the manufacturer.

If I recall correctly, someone had posted that they contacted Sharp regarding their tv they bought at Costco (Costco specific model number) and were told they wouldn't cover it and to contact Costco. I would think the manufacturer would have to cover it, but this is what a person claimed happened to them.

I have not exagerated ONE story. I don't know how you expect me to prove it, other than you stopping by your local Costco and asking them about some of the most ridiculous returns they have seen. I am sure they will share some stories with you. If you would like I can post a link to an image of a receipt which I hold in my hand for an $1,800 magnovox 9P6044C purchased 1/21/00 that was returned IN FULL on sunday. I Kept it as a souvenir of one of the most ridiculous returns I have seen it a while. If fact it is printed with INK, BEFORE THE AGE OF THERMAL PAPER.

And Costco HAS BEEN canceling the memberships of some of the worst abusers.

If Costco allowed someone to return a tv after 7 years, then Costco has no one to blame but themselves. That's just crazy. They should have nipped this type of abuse in the bud a long time ago. Sure, post the link if you like. Just mind boggling that someone would return a tv after all that time. From the get go, Costco should have had a policy wherein you could return a tv after let's say 90 days, for defects only. They could make the person have to go through their conceriage service first to verify that the tv was in fact defective. Then once it was determined that it was, the person could get a refund. Seems like that would have stop the abusers, yes?

Isnt Costco an unauthorized retailer for some electronics? Does that not void the manufacturers warranty?

You raise a very good point. I mentioned in another post that a person tried contacting Sharp about their Costco specific Sharp tv, and Sharp told them they had to go through Costco. Also, I know Pioneer is very strick about buying from an authorized dealer, and Costco is not listed on Pioneer's approved dealers list, as far as I know.

This is why you aren't a ceo. Some cyber dork who wants a free tv upgrade every year thinks he has the know how to "adjust the Costco business model"and make the most profitable club store even more so. Way easier said than done. Your plan is to slash wages, which is not only bad for employees, and their families, but also for local economies. Most employees will quit anyways, and they will be replaced by the same toothless creeps that slither around Wal-marts for just over minimum wage. BTW our member base will grow just fine with or without a "rape us as much as you want" refund policy. But if we had walmart clones running our stores, they would surely drop.

Wow is all I can say. If this is the kind of employee that Costco hires...just unbelievable! Another Costco employee just assuming everyone who posts something they deem negative about Costco must be an "abuser" of the return policy. That's just wrong, and almost as abhorrent as someone who returns a tv 7 years later.

Wow is all I can say. If this is the kind of employee that Costco hires...just unbelievable! Another Costco employee just assuming everyone who posts something they deem negative about Costco must be an "abuser" of the return policy. That's just wrong, and almost as abhorrent as someone who returns a tv 7 years later.
thats exactly right. just because i want the option of returning my piece of crap vizio if it bombs out in a year, does not make me a policy abuser. every time he brings it up, he mentions the extremes, but most of us on here just wanted the OPTION...hence why most of us took a chance on the vizio to begin with. would never happen now.

Wow, you sure seem to have something against the customer. Not everyone abuses the policy, I'm sure. As I stated in a previous post, I think a large number of tv returns were simply due to defective sets.

Probably true, it's amazing how many folks in consumer forums are seemingly anti-consumer. Anyone here have verified figures on abusive returns? No, we just accept whatever the retailer or the National Retail Federation tells us (as does the media). And of course they have a vested interest in making the problem look as bad as possible...

Probably true, it's amazing how many folks in consumer forums are seemingly anti-consumer. Anyone here have verified figures on abusive returns? No, we just accept whatever the retailer or the National Retail Federation tells us (as does the media). And of course they have a vested interest in making the problem look as bad as possible...

Costco has stated that abusive returns cost them "tens of millions of dollars per year". Stopping the abuse doesn't make someone "anti consumer". There is a fairness standard that the abusers don't understand because it's all about them and what they can get no matter if it's honest or not. In the end the abuse costs all Costco members in the form of higher prices. I'm shocked that you don't understand that concept.

What you think the customers were the ones who thought up Costcos plan they did it to build a customer base and it worked very,very well.I have no problem with their new return plan as a matter of fact thats where my wife is at this moment.

?? I said nothing of the kind. Somebody made a statement of fact, not opinion, and I asked upon what basis was that statement made.

I have not exagerated ONE story. I don't know how you expect me to prove it, other than you stopping by your local Costco and asking them about some of the most ridiculous returns they have seen. I am sure they will share some stories with you. If you would like I can post a link to an image of a receipt which I hold in my hand for an $1,800 magnovox 9P6044C purchased 1/21/00 that was returned IN FULL on sunday. I Kept it as a souvenir of one of the most ridiculous returns I have seen it a while. If fact it is printed with INK, BEFORE THE AGE OF THERMAL PAPER.

And Costco HAS BEEN canceling the memberships of some of the worst abusers.

I have no problem believing that people abused this policy and agree that they were wrong to do it. However there's no need to embellish this by making claims that thermal paper didn't exist prior to 2000 - the world was lousy with thermal printers/paper all through the 90's. Unless, of course, you meant to say before the age of thermal paper at Costco? (caps left off for reduced eye fatigue)

OK, after reading this thread for the last few days, I have a few thoughts that I think I must share. So here is my 2 cents.


I have been a member for 12+ years. Every time I go, there is always allot of people in line not for consumer electronics, but for groceries, office supplies or small business owners buying items that they need store or shop. Not to mention the clothing section or people purchasing CDs and DVDs. I think I once saw someone buying a TV. TV purchases are a very small percentage of Costco's sales. So I think that they will stick around for a very long time.


I read yesterday the TV purchases were less than 5% of total sales. While Costco TV sales may decrease as a result of the policy, folks that buy TVs from costco in the future will be more likely to buy TVs and keep them.

Total sales may go down slightly but revenue will most likely increase.

Toolshed:
You Stated That Costco Has The Best Prices. It Does Not.

If Costco allowed someone to return a tv after 7 years, then Costco has no one to blame but themselves. That's just crazy. They should have nipped this type of abuse in the bud a long time ago. Sure, post the link if you like. Just mind boggling that someone would return a tv after all that time. From the get go, Costco should have had a policy wherein you could return a tv after let's say 90 days, for defects only. They could make the person have to go through their conceriage service first to verify that the tv was in fact defective. Then once it was determined that it was, the person could get a refund. Seems like that would have stop the abusers, yes?

Well that is exactly what they are doing now. And like I have said countless times.... Abuse was not an issue when the liberal return policy first began. It did not become out of control until a few years ago. People became bolder and more determined to get their way. Some were/are denied. But some also start yelling and screaming and start calling 1-(800) numbers complaining until they get their way. The more rude they are the better their chances. The policy was intended for peace of mind, but for many it turned into a free upgrade service. Once again...if you have a problem with the change in policy..complain to those who think having a Costco membership gives them the right to upgrade their TV every 5 years.

You raise a very good point. I mentioned in another post that a person tried contacting Sharp about their Costco specific Sharp tv, and Sharp told them they had to go through Costco. Also, I know Pioneer is very strick about buying from an authorized dealer, and Costco is not listed on Pioneer's approved dealers list, as far as I know.
If that was the case now...it no longer is the case today. Under the new policy if the items Manufacture Warranty expires or is not covered if purchased from Costco...Costco will cover the warranty untl the 2-year mark. That means if the default warranty was 6 months...Costco will continue to cover it for another 18 months.

Probably true, it's amazing how many folks in consumer forums are seemingly anti-consumer. Anyone here have verified figures on abusive returns? No, we just accept whatever the retailer or the National Retail Federation tells us (as does the media). And of course they have a vested interest in making the problem look as bad as possible...

Let me try to put things into perspective....

Any Costco employee who who has worked for the company as long as I have has had to deal with this stuff for so long it quite frankly just starts to get under your skin. I don't know how many times I have had to say it but...the VAST majority of returns were legit. In fact I posted that 67% of returns were made with in the first 90 days. That being said....there is still a pretty large amount of people abusing the policy. When you see it everyday as I do you can't help but be irritated. I would have rather seen the old return policy stay but I knew it wouldn't last forever. It is rather easy for you guys who happen to wander into Costco once maybetwice a week at the most to judge my opinion. You see a very small percentage of the TV's coming back, and you don't see ANY of the Ipods, Cell phones, Cameras, and Camcorders because those are locked up.

And no I do not "have a vested interest in making the problem look as bad as possible" Because to be honest...this policy is going to make my workday a living hell in a few months when those who once abused try to continue to do so, but are denied.

I find it interesting that for the most part those who have thousands of posts here in this forum, and those who have been Costco members for years and years seem to have no problem with the change.

Goober, first, employee pay and benefits has nothing to do with revising the returns policy. Both should be considered on their own merits by your own metric of "what benefits the shareholders." If revising the returns policy benefits shareholders, it should be done, regardless of what is done with employees. And if chopping employee benefits benefits the shareholders, it should be done regardless of what happens with the return policy. They are wholly unrelated to each other according to the only benchmark you recognize, $$ to owners.

Second, regarding the merits of your suggestion that costco should take the axe to employee benefits, as other folks have observed, costco has been killing sam's club with identical return policies. Thus, the reason for the difference in their performance must lie elsewhere. Sinegal, whom you deride as the mayor of Mayberry, has made the rational calculation that increasing pay and benefits, thus improving worker company loyalty, is a net gain to the company. Studies have borne out that costco has far better employee retention and far less shrinkage (employee theft) than other retailers. These facts help costco's bottom line considerably, and chopping employee benefits to a level just-above-walmart would very likely ruin company morale and could well turn these factors to a level worse than industry average (people get madder when you take away something than if you never gave it to them in the first place). Moreover, I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are costco members who are members and go out of their way to shop there because of costco's good treatment of their employees. I am one such member. (They also have great prices on really good blue cheese.) If costco became walmart-plus-$1 I'd say screw 'em both.

I'm sure you make a lot of money, well done. But unless you run a worldwide company with revenues on par with costco -- and I suspect you don't given that you're posting on AVSForum at 10 in the morning -- maybe you could acknowledge that maybe other folks have taken things into account that you haven't (sinegal, not me, I'm just a worker bee (not at costco)).

If that was the case now...it no longer is the case today. Under the new policy if the items Manufacture Warranty expires or is not covered if purchased from Costco...Costco will cover the warranty untl the 2-year mark. That means if the default warranty was 6 months...Costco will continue to cover it for another 18 months.

How will it be covered? Will Costco pay to have someone come into my home to repair the set? How quickly will they respond?

How will it be covered? Will Costco pay to have someone come into my home to repair the set? How quickly will they respond?

I am not sure on that yet as not very many people have had to use the service yet. I do know that in most cases tv's 32in+ are in home repair. I am not sure if Costco will have it's own techs eventually or if they will contract with another company. I will see if I can get som details on that this week. As far as how quickly they will respond... I guess that will have to be a wait and see game as well. Knowing Costco, it will be much faster than if you purchased it at BB/CC and called to have them fix it.

Goober, first, employee pay and benefits has nothing to do with revising the returns policy. Both should be considered on their own merits by your own metric of "what benefits the shareholders." If revising the returns policy benefits shareholders, it should be done, regardless of what is done with employees. And if chopping employee benefits benefits the shareholders, it should be done regardless of what happens with the return policy. They are wholly unrelated to each other according to the only benchmark you recognize, $$ to owners.

Second, regarding the merits of your suggestion that costco should take the axe to employee benefits, as other folks have observed, costco has been killing sam's club with identical return policies. Thus, the reason for the difference in their performance must lie elsewhere. Sinegal, whom you deride as the mayor of Mayberry, has made the rational calculation that increasing pay and benefits, thus improving worker company loyalty, is a net gain to the company. Studies have borne out that costco has far better employee retention and far less shrinkage (employee theft) than other retailers. These facts help costco's bottom line considerably, and chopping employee benefits to a level just-above-walmart would very likely ruin company morale and could well turn these factors to a level worse than industry average (people get madder when you take away something than if you never gave it to them in the first place). Moreover, I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are costco members who are members and go out of their way to shop there because of costco's good treatment of their employees. I am one such member. (They also have great prices on really good blue cheese.) If costco became walmart-plus-$1 I'd say screw 'em both.

I'm sure you make a lot of money, well done. But unless you run a worldwide company with revenues on par with costco -- and I suspect you don't given that you're posting on AVSForum at 10 in the morning -- maybe you could acknowledge that maybe other folks have taken things into account that you haven't (sinegal, not me, I'm just a worker bee (not at costco)).


All I have to say is THANK YOU.

Goober, first, employee pay and benefits has nothing to do with revising the returns policy. Both should be considered on their own merits by your own metric of "what benefits the shareholders." If revising the returns policy benefits shareholders, it should be done, regardless of what is done with employees. And if chopping employee benefits benefits the shareholders, it should be done regardless of what happens with the return policy. They are wholly unrelated to each other according to the only benchmark you recognize, $$ to owners.

Second, regarding the merits of your suggestion that costco should take the axe to employee benefits, as other folks have observed, costco has been killing sam's club with identical return policies. Thus, the reason for the difference in their performance must lie elsewhere. Sinegal, whom you deride as the mayor of Mayberry, has made the rational calculation that increasing pay and benefits, thus improving worker company loyalty, is a net gain to the company. Studies have borne out that costco has far better employee retention and far less shrinkage (employee theft) than other retailers. These facts help costco's bottom line considerably, and chopping employee benefits to a level just-above-walmart would very likely ruin company morale and could well turn these factors to a level worse than industry average (people get madder when you take away something than if you never gave it to them in the first place). Moreover, I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are costco members who are members and go out of their way to shop there because of costco's good treatment of their employees. I am one such member. (They also have great prices on really good blue cheese.) If costco became walmart-plus-$1 I'd say screw 'em both.

I'm sure you make a lot of money, well done. But unless you run a worldwide company with revenues on par with costco -- and I suspect you don't given that you're posting on AVSForum at 10 in the morning -- maybe you could acknowledge that maybe other folks have taken things into account that you haven't (sinegal, not me, I'm just a worker bee (not at costco)).

They are not unrelated. It's all bottom line driven. How hard is that to understand? Also, do you not read what is written? I'm saying to pay Costco more. But, it's probably not necessary to pay them 40% more (which is the number I think I read somewhere) since they don't have to pay as large a percentage of their salary for health benefits.

I'm lucky with my job. I come and go as I please and do what I please, basically whenever I please. Clearly I work for a smaller company (4B+ in revenues and 35K employees plus), but we are a manufacturing company in every corner of the world, which makes this business just as hard to run as a domestic retail chain. Plus, I don't run it. My role is advisory and I'm involved in global policy making.

I think Sinegal runs it great--better than probably anyone ever could since it's his baby and he works so hard at it. But, he's the old generation. Expansion is feeding the growth. When expansion slows, growth will as well. Tell me then, how do you continue to feed shareholder revenue growth appetites? People like Sinegal can never come to terms with slashing SG&A through employee pay and benefits. A younger generation CEO would make those decisions. It doesn't mean the slashings would make it marginally above Walmart, but it doesn't have to be 40% either. I just look at the SG&A as a percentage of gross income and think it's too high.

If Costco allowed someone to return a tv after 7 years, then Costco has no one to blame but themselves. That's just crazy. They should have nipped this type of abuse in the bud a long time ago. Sure, post the link if you like. Just mind boggling that someone would return a tv after all that time. From the get go, Costco should have had a policy wherein you could return a tv after let's say 90 days, for defects only. They could make the person have to go through their conceriage service first to verify that the tv was in fact defective. Then once it was determined that it was, the person could get a refund. Seems like that would have stop the abusers, yes?

What you fail to understand is Costco was forced into a new kind of policy only recently. The annual or 6 month upgraders are happening becasue of the new landscape around tvs. Before the flat tv explosion, there wasn't a reason to upgrade frequently. All tvs were basically the same and the price difference from a past model to a current one was neglible.

Thank you for representing the majority of Costco members view point! The above post comes from someone who has ethics and is responsible with how they spend their money. They also appreciate good service, and value, which is why they will continue to spend big bucks at Costco. Logical, sensible people, will agree with this.

GooberedUp.. on the other hand has no ethics and values above all the almighty dollar, which is why he suggests slashing Cosctos wages to that of just over Wal-Mart employees, and he still wants the old "free upgrade" refund policy, because he probably was the one upgrading his old digital camera to the newest one with the latest mega pixels. You don't get it that making the bottom line pencil in isn't what matters to most people. Supporting Costco is supporting a good ethical business that is good for America. People can't live off of Wal mart wages, and they can barely live off of Costco wages, especially in this day with crazy inflation and ridiculous home prices.

I understand you don't like the thought of getting your pay cut. I just don't see in the long run Costco being able to sustain their present business model. There's only a finite amount of expansiont that's possible. You guys really are fungible, which will lead to the eventual phasing out of relatively higher salaries and benefits. Regardless of what you think my ethics are, Costco is a business in business to maximize shareholder value. The quicker you understand that, the quicker you'll be able to accept whatever fate is down the road for you in your "career".

I don't do the return game. Never have and don't need to. As I said before (since it seems that you Costco employees are probably paid higher, but must understand less), it's about the peace of mind, not the upgrading.

Stop with the name calling. It's a sure way for the moderators to close down the thread.

If TV and electronics are only 5% of Costco sales how the hell are they losing so much money on return abuse? Even if 25% of sets are returned within 5 years that is still only .0125% of their sales over that period! Do the math! Sounds to me like Costco is already in trouble financially if a .0125% drop in revenue is such a problem. My advice to Costco is stop paying high wages and benefits to employees and give the customer a break on prices! Heck, fire a few of them once in a while and you could actually lower prices - that will increase sales and profits in one fell swoop! You may also want to check on how many are spamming this forum on company time! Or are you paying them bonuses just to do so?

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If TV and electronics are only 5% of Costco sales how the hell are they losing so much money on return abuse? Even if 25% of sets are returned within 5 years that is still only .0125% of their sales over that period! Do the math! Sounds to me like Costco is already in trouble financially if a .0125% drop in revenue is such a problem. My advice to Costco is stop paying high wages and benefits to employees and give the customer a break on prices! Heck, fire a few of them once in a while and you could actually lower prices - that will increase sales and profits in one fell swoop! You may also want to check on how many are spamming this forum on company time! Or are you paying them bonuses just to do so?

dsmith,

I think your math is incorrect. If TV's are 5% of sales and 25% are returned, that is 1.25% of their total sales.

Regarding your advice to just start firing some folks and chopping wages and benefits, again, costco is beating all other big-box retailers hands-down, even with the money they're losing on their return policy. This suggests (although it doesn't prove) that Sinegal's model of trading high wages and benefits for increased company loyalty and employee retention, and decreased theft works. And, again, there are some people who shop at costco precisely because costco is a company which is known to treat their workers well. Firings and benefit slashings will lose the loyalty of not only the workers, but also some portion of the customer base.

Of course it is true that a slash-and-burn approach would temporarily bump revenue. The question is whether it is a wise long-term approach. This requires a company to take into account all foreseeable effects of the actions they are considering.

This thread is closed: please go here:

Costco/BB/CC/Sears/Dell et al Master Thread II: NO PRICING /NO COUPONS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9913694&&#post9913694)

Please note the original thread was getting out of control: AVS is a technical forum and we are here for technical support only