Time Warner Cable HDTV [Text View] - Page 25

HDtvaDict

08-06-09, 03:26 PM

So I got Fioptics now (please refer to my earlier post), and I have to say I'm not pleased. First - The picture quality is not that great I’d say it's about 80% of that of TWC. The internet is blazing fast though like their basic internet is much faster and I'm getting 10mbps up and down for some reason even though I ordered 10/2. It's sort of like a T.1. Anyway the box that I have is horrible. It's the SA 8540HDC with SARA on it. OMG the onscreen guide is atrocious. I miss Navigator now more than ever (I cannot believe I'm saying this but the ODN 3.1.1v3 is much better than this crap I have). Ugh, I'm just not pleased with the DVR/Settop box that they have. It's absolute garbage. Other than that the service is fine. I'm just a little disappointed in the quality of my picture though. For some reason TWC's digital channels looked great even though they weren't HD. Theirs look almost like it’s analog or something. Anyway enough of me ranting. It's a new service and it's bound to have problems. I'm sure in a few years it will be just as good as or better than TWC. My advice is to wait if you are ready to make the move, you may not like it.

Here's the box that I got now:(
http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/pdf/userguide_8550hdc.pdf

Gary J

08-06-09, 03:31 PM

The picture quality is not that great I’d say it's about 80% of that of TWC.

Forget the rest, that's a real showstopper.

LL3HD

08-06-09, 03:34 PM

So I got Fioptics...

....the box that I have is horrible....

...Other than that the service is fine.You could get a TiVo.

Riverside_Guy

08-06-09, 03:55 PM

The internet is blazing fast though like their basic internet is much faster and I'm getting 10mbps up and down for some reason even though I ordered 10/2. It's sort of like a T.1.

Don't judge the box by the software that is running on it. It looks like you have a later version of the 8300HDC... asa for a T1, that's actually way quaint now-a-days. A T1 is a symmetrical 1.5 mb/s connection. Even the cheapest of DSL goes twice that fast down @ 3 mb/s.

Not only that but we are all seriously jaded... I remember 3200 baud modems and being all excited when I convinced my work place to get a 512k frame relay connection; 6 months later, they upgraded to a T1.

Not sure about your market, but in all fairness, TWC's 10 mb/s down has a boost feature that can get d/l speeds up to ~18 mb/s.

AND I hear the new FiOS default for my market is 25/15. Now THAT is broadband!

HDtvaDict

08-06-09, 06:41 PM

Actually after playing around the box isn't the problem. It is just the software (Sara) I'm going to take some screen shot so you can see how ugly the onscreen guide is. The internet like I said I can't complain. TIVO might work since I don't think Fioptics uses SDV. But I don't think they give out CableCards.

hdtvfan2005

08-06-09, 07:14 PM

HDtvaDict

08-06-09, 07:20 PM

As promised some pics of the Fioptics system. Please feel free to comment!

Zoomtown Internet = Fast
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3430/3795903833_8da0ee6819_o.jpg

Garbage PQ
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2624/3795895027_e63e966a09.jpg

Info Panel is Non-HD. Makes it hard to read from distances greater than 6 feet.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2554/3795894781_75a7f67a92.jpg

Ridiculously nominal information on the guide. No Movie Dates? I liked that feature of TWC's Navigator.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3795894577_647928b09a.jpg

Ugly non-hd OnScreen Guide
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/3795894047_1204cbf415.jpg

nickdawg

08-06-09, 07:25 PM

https://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/policies/legalnotice.html

Lots of SD channels going ASSDV. A few analogs might be going digital. FSN Prime Ticket might be added but mainly for ex adelphia. Maybe it means San Diego proper. More premiums in HD.

TWC NE Ohio is also planning on adding more channels to their failed ASSDV system. That's almost every channel in the digital range. Soon the only reliable working channels will be the analog tier channels.:mad:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=148215&d=1248120684

What really sucks about TWC is they're putting almost all the Showtime and STARZ channels on ASSDV, even STARZ HD. So now you can pay $12 a month for a channel that tells you when you can watch it!!

hdtvfan2005

08-06-09, 07:44 PM

TWC San Diego is planning on converting ShopNBC, C-Span 2, HSN, and CMT to Digital so they can add more SDV channels. Maybe TWC San Diego will eventually get rid of analog.

hdtvfan2005

08-06-09, 10:43 PM

XHAS a Mexican channel is likely going to stay analog for another month. It will eventually be moved to the digital basic tier. Though HSN, ShopNBC, C-Span 2, and CMT will be moved to digital.

ProTuber

08-06-09, 11:35 PM

As promised some pics of the Fioptics system. Please feel free to comment!
Ugly non-hd OnScreen Guide
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/3795894047_1204cbf415.jpgDon't feel too bad. That's the same guide we have with TWC in Albany, NY and possibly many other divisions.

LionelLines

08-07-09, 01:11 AM

Don't feel too bad. That's the same guide we have with TWC in Albany, NY and possibly many other divisions.

That SUCKS! And, I thought we had a terrible guide in SoCal! :(:(

nickdawg

08-07-09, 01:27 AM

That's not as bad as the Navigator guide. I'll bet that's far more stable and reliable than Navigator.

Ken H

08-07-09, 02:40 AM

Don't feel too bad. That's the same guide we have with TWC in Albany, NY and possibly many other divisions.

Also used by WOW.

BenJF3

08-07-09, 07:12 AM

Crazywoody

08-07-09, 08:56 AM

SARA is the default SA/Cisco Guide and is used by many providers. It is stable and reliable as far as basic DVR funtions go, but lacks even the most basic guide features and options on top of being butt ugly. I can't wait to try out Navigator and am hoping Tivo or Moxi get with the program and release Tru2Way capable boxes that do SDV/PPV/and VOD.

Trust me. I have SARA in our main home in Greensboro and Navigator at our small beach cabin. Navigator is like a breath of spring air .cool and sweet compared to the butt ugly sara. Not quite as fast as SARA but acceptable.Navigator is a light yeras jump over SARA, Cannot wait for it to launch in Greensboro. WOODY

BenJF3

08-07-09, 09:03 AM

Trust me. I have SARA in our main home in Greensboro and Navigator at our small beach cabin. Navigator is like a breath of spring air .cool and sweet compared to the butt ugly sara. Not quite as fast as SARA but acceptable.Navigator is a light years jump over SARA, Cannot wait for it to launch in Greensboro. WOODY

I'm right with you Woody. We were supposed to get Navigator last year and it fell off the radar, now I know for a fact that they are testing it here which makes me more confident of a "by years end" launch per TWC. I really want to at least try it out and make a solid comparison. I have a feeling it will be awhile before Tivo or Moxi drop a two way box.

pwrmetal

08-07-09, 01:52 PM

hdtvfan2005

08-07-09, 02:32 PM

You know nickdawg, TWC San Diego has a working ASSDV system that works most of the time. Occasionally it has problems but then it's usually fixed.

HDtvaDict

08-07-09, 03:12 PM

Don't feel too bad. That's the same guide we have with TWC in Albany, NY and possibly many other divisions.

Huh, so I guess I'm not alone. Interesting. I thought all of TWC had the navigator type menu/guide. I agree that while SARA is atrocious looking it is much faster at changing channels. The OD sucks monkey balls with Fioptics it takes loads of time to load. Navigator is quicker in that respect. I'd much rather have navigator than Sara. I guess since I'm so use to it now, I never knew SARA until I made the switch...BTW what's this fighting stuff that comes on HDNET? It's pretty neat.

nickdawg

08-07-09, 04:25 PM

jcalabria

08-07-09, 04:25 PM

You know nickdawg, TWC San Diego has a working ASSDV system that works most of the time. Occasionally it has problems but then it's usually fixed.

Same here... I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen "Channel Not Available" since they launched SDV here over a year ago. On half of those, the channel popped up on its own after 5-10 seconds (did not even have to "try again"). I can only remember twice that there was an SDV "outage"... both times it affected a number of channels and was repaired in an hour or so.

Every once in a while I go into diagnostics mode and take note of what channels are - or have been switched to - SDV because, for all intents and purposes, I cannot otherwise tell the difference.

SDV just plain works here. If it doesn't work for Nick, I can't dispute that. I realize that it's not much consolation to him, but it is his system/division's implementation that is at fault, not the concept or technology of SDV itself.

Crazywoody

08-07-09, 05:29 PM

I'll be the Devil's Advocate. I MUCH prefer SARA to Navigator. Navigator (pretty though it is) is just way too slow for me. SARA is at least quick when scrolling through channels. Woody and I have debated this in the Greensboro forum too. ;) I am dreading the switch over to Navigator, but will happily recant if I change my mind after living with it for a few weeks....

I hope the version of Navigator we get is as smooth as the version I have at Emerald Isle. If it is I think you will have a pleasant suprise. I will concede it is not as fast as Sara but I am on a non dvr pioneer box at the coast. The speed is still very acceptable and not nearly as slow as some have experienced. The speed should improve on the 8300 and 8300hdc boxes. But the way Greensboro TWC is moveing forward on Navigator we may still be debateing SARA vs Navigator next year at this time. WOODY

John Mason

08-08-09, 09:50 AM

Trying to guesstimate if there's a consensus whether the Mystro/Navigator STB operating system, coupled with features such as START OVER and extensive HD-ON-DEMAND menus, strains PQ, causing breakups and other glitches.

Mystro downloaded to my vintage 8300HD STB Thursday (NYC's TWC), replacing Passport. AFAIK, we're not using switched digital video but instead relying on bandwidth from dropped analog channels. But if TWC subscribers are starting to use the start-over feature, presumably requiring unique delivery paths from the head end, or similarly HD on-demand requests, this must gobble up bandwidth--big time--as use grows. [Edit: Perhaps HD/SD-on-demand files stored on servers at local switching points or nodes helps solve this?]

Noticed more breakups on various HD channels (not on their SD versions) yesterday, and the entire system was down about one hour--apparently, from my local thread, within a limited area since no one else posted an outage comment. New operating system glitches should be expected. But it's hard integrating all the AVS comments to determine if signal breakups are gradually being cured, or whether newer cable STBs help. Saw very few breakups, for years, with Passport, which lacked HD on demand or start-over. (Noticed in today's Verizon thread here someone has similar breakup complaints.) -- John

HDtvaDict

08-08-09, 12:14 PM

Well guys I am once again a TWC customer. I couldn't take it. I hated the Fioptics. I hated the menus, and today was the final straw when I found out my plan didn't included unlimited local and long distance. This was a must have because my family lives back home in Mississippi. So this is the deal I struck with the devil for another year:

Unlimited Voice (Local and Long distance)
Turbo internet 15mbps/768K
HD DVR
Starz
Cinemax
HBO
Showtime
Encore - Movies Package
Digital Choice Tier

All of this for get this....$147.72 after tax. My bill before I switched was $160 (A week ago-the same services minus the movies package). Plus I owed TWC 191 dollars but I only had to pay $118 to bring my balance to zero, and then they gave me 28 dollars credit for coming back. Now I called that negotiating. That is less than the Fioptics which was 150 for less than what I'm getting now with TWC. Of course I'm going to have rebundle again in a year but hey I'm happy now! Plus soon TWC will be adding Starz and Cinemax HD!

jcalabria

08-08-09, 12:15 PM

Skipdrive

08-08-09, 01:33 PM

Mystro downloaded to my vintage 8300HD STB Thursday (NYC's TWC), replacing Passport.

Wow, you're just now switching from Passport to Navigator? My sympathies; you're going to hate it. :p But, you did get to keep Passport for longer than most. So you were lucky there.

After having Navigator for so long now and gotten used to the reduced functionality and easy-to-fix glitches (like the skip-forward on the REW button - that one still drives me nuts), I find the thing that annoys me the most now is the too-brief and truncated program descriptions, that two-line-cutoff thing. Guess they're never going to address that one.

Satch Man

08-08-09, 09:13 PM

Wow, you're just now switching from Passport to Navigator? My sympathies; you're going to hate it. :p But, you did get to keep Passport for longer than most. So you were lucky there.

After having Navigator for so long now and gotten used to the reduced functionality and easy-to-fix glitches (like the skip-forward on the REW button - that one still drives me nuts), I find the thing that annoys me the most now is the too-brief and truncated program descriptions, that two-line-cutoff thing. Guess they're never going to address that one.

A future software update is going to have longer program descriptions and more efficient search methods. They are working on better accuracy with RR, FF, and Play modes.

Jack

Satch Man

08-08-09, 09:32 PM

Well guys I am once again a TWC customer. I couldn't take it. I hated the Fioptics. I hated the menus, and today was the final straw when I found out my plan didn't included unlimited local and long distance. This was a must have because my family lives back home in Mississippi. So this is the deal I struck with the devil for another year:

Unlimited Voice (Local and Long distance)
Turbo Internet 15mbps/768K
HD DVR
Starz
Cinemax
HBO
Showtime
Encore - Movies Package
Digital Choice Tier

All of this for get this....$147.72 after tax. My bill before I switched was $160 (A week ago-the same services minus the movies package). Plus I owed TWC 191 dollars but I only had to pay $118 to bring my balance to zero, and then they gave me 28 dollars credit for coming back. Now I called that negotiating. That is less than the Fioptics which was 150 for less than what I'm getting now with TWC. Of course I'm going to have rebundle again in a year but hey I'm happy now! Plus soon TWC will be adding Starz and Cinemax HD!

WOW! So how long did you have the Fioptic service? That has to be a record for the shortest time with them. Very good deal that TMC gave you in coming back.

Jack

kevin120

08-08-09, 09:41 PM

High instantaneous On-Demand use has no effect on other channels... the On-Demans service has its own pool of channels to use and does not dynamically steal bandwidth from other services.

However, high sustained use might cause TWC "planners" to make a decision to either use higher compression in the On-Demand channel pool, or reallocate more bandwidth to On-Demand services which might lead to higher compression on other services.

twc dallas uses motorola boxes and is a 870MHz rebuilt system so our nodes are about 250 homes per node. They use 4 QAM's for vod which have 10 channels per vod qam each are on 2-11 of each carrier.

vod channels
79-1 vod barker
83 579MHz
84 585MHz
85 591MHz
86 597MHz

also they use 3:1 HD(except for locals) compression no SDV

HD QAM's
103 669MHz
104 675MHz
105 681MHz
107 693MHz
108 699MHz
109 705MHz
110 711MHz
118 759MHz
126 807MHz
127 813MHz
128 819MHz
129 825MHz
130 831MHz
131 837MHz
132 843MHz
133 849MHz
134 855MHz
135 861MHz

ADS
101 657MHz
102 663MHz
113 729MHz
114 735MHz
115 741MHz
116 747MHz
117 753MHz
119 765MHz

still open for adds
2 57MHz
120 771MHz
121 777MHz
124 795MHz
125 801MHz

Riverside_Guy

08-09-09, 09:52 AM

jcalabria

08-09-09, 10:09 AM

Pretty soon it will be much like jerky youtube videos!

Indy car racing on Versus is already there!

Riverside_Guy

08-09-09, 10:40 AM

Indy car racing on Versus is already there!

Damn... it's funny, for many years I found no interest in watching car racing... it was quite boring in fact, all one saw was cars going around the same track over, and over, and over... . When I got my first HD set, I caught a race and found it very compelling, especially with how technology totally transformed the viewing experience. Cameras in car that can actually pan around, giving us a good look at what a driver is looking at. The "running around the rack" took on a whole new meaning with those data displays, speed and gear the car is in... along with things like position and time behind the leader.

pwrmetal

08-09-09, 07:37 PM

Well guys I am once again a TWC customer.... So this is the deal I struck with the devil for another year:

Unlimited Voice (Local and Long distance)
Turbo internet 15mbps/768K
HD DVR
Starz
Cinemax
HBO
Showtime
Encore - Movies Package
Digital Choice Tier

All of this for get this....$147.72 after tax. My bill before I switched was $160

Wow, I wish I could have the deal you had on your "normal" bill. I get fewer premiums, slower (non-turbo) internet, and only have one more HD cable box than you and I pay TWC around $40 more a month than your non-deal rate.

hdtvfan2005

08-10-09, 04:57 AM

abyssrules

08-10-09, 02:14 PM

xnappo

08-10-09, 02:21 PM

Is this a stupid question but does an HDMI cord make any difference on hd quality and or digital channels ? Would any HDMI cord work for an 55 inch or a 37 inch hdtv .....the 55 " is a Mitsubishi and 37 " is a Konka. Currently i do not have an HDMI to either set.

No difference in quality. Either it works or it doesn't. I have had no issues with monoprice.com cables.

xnappo

abyssrules

08-10-09, 02:26 PM

really because several of the hd channels get pixelation for ex. USA wwe raw major squares :mad:! which cable would be best for my tv's off monoprice.com ?

Riverside_Guy

08-10-09, 02:48 PM

really because several of the hd channels get pixelation for ex. USA wwe raw major squares :mad:! which cable would be best for my tv's off monoprice.com ?

The shortest one that will do the trick. Monoprice is VERY cheap and they don't get that way by using the best of components, so if you're looking at very short runs (under 6 feet) not too much of an issue.

abyssrules

08-10-09, 03:10 PM

With no known quality difference what is the advantage of buying HDMI cords ?:confused:

Riverside_Guy

08-10-09, 03:15 PM

With no known quality difference what is the advantage of buying HDMI cords ?:confused:

Transmits both video and multi-channel audio in a single cable.

abyssrules

08-10-09, 03:19 PM

See i was looking for better picture clarity with the HDMI cords.... so the cable i got from time warner is no different then an hDMI cord other then multi channel audio-video tasking ?

HDtvaDict

08-10-09, 03:21 PM

WOW! So how long did you have the Fioptic service? That has to be a record for the shortest time with them. Very good deal that TMC gave you in coming back.

Jack

LOL less than a week. I'm finicky about PQ and service. I think besides TWC having a sucky software on the boxes their PQ was excellent. I'd rather have that than a fast tv channel change than an ugly picture anyday. Why I felt bad about leaving TWC I don't know. I'm a sucker I guess :D!

HDtvaDict

08-10-09, 03:24 PM

HDtvaDict

08-10-09, 03:28 PM

Here is what TWC is offering in San Diego

Digital cable w/VOD, Sports, Movies, Variety, Choice
2 DVR boxes
Showtime + TMC
10/1 internet
TWC Voice w/Unlimted local and long distance
Voice Mail

All for only $139.85 with a 2 year contract. HBO is free for 3 months and if you want HBO and cinemax it's only $9.99 a month extra for each one. I don't have this package but they claim you can save over $1,000 a year with this bundle.

NOT Bad but I want more premiums. I always want the 4 big premiums even though I only watch one per month. I know, I'm one of those people that if see the Call 1-800 number to get this service I feel bad, and I want it. I may have watched 2 Cinemax programs the whole year, but I like having the option available to me to watch. But mine would have been $134.xx a month if I didn't add the Movies tier. Plus tax it would have been $141.xx! So I guess you are about the same rate as in Southwest Ohio!

abyssrules

08-10-09, 03:30 PM

I have my input currently set at antenna rather than the cablebox input.... looks better clarity wise then when i choose cable box for digitial channels and when i watch hd i put it on cable box input .

HDtvaDict

08-10-09, 03:34 PM

With no known quality difference what is the advantage of buying HDMI cords ?:confused:

Who says there's no quality difference? And do you have a good tv? HDMI carries the best signal because it's digital unlike component (analog). HDMI also carries audio and video. So you have all-in-one cord. I prefer HDMI for simplicity sake, and I do tend to get better PQ on my tv anyway. But yeah I paid almost 80 bucks for my HDMI cable. I have no idea why they're so expensive and the one I bought from BestBuy is cheap!

abyssrules

08-10-09, 03:37 PM

mitsubishi 55 " and a konka 37 ".Xnappo up there said there's no difference pQ wise .I'm very unaware of the differences ...lol

gerhard911

08-10-09, 04:02 PM

mitsubishi 55 " and a konka 37 ".Xnappo up there said there's no difference pQ wise .I'm very unaware of the differences ...lol

His intention was to say no real difference in picture quality between different brands of HDMI cables. There are two connection methods from your cable box to the TV that can transmit an HD picture - Component and DVI/HDMI. Any other connection type will be a down converted standard definition picture. Using the antenna (RF input), composite (yellow RCA connector) or S-video will result in a much poorer picture on HD channels.

Component is analog and has three RCA type connectors - one red, one blue & one green. DVI & HDMI are both digital and should give a marginally better picture than component. DVI is an older connector which carried only digital video and has been replaced by HDMI which also carries digital audio. Some older HDTVs have DVI connectors but no HDMI. If that is the case you can use a DVI/HDMI cable or an HDMI cable with an adapter.

Any of this is available from the referenced Monoprice and their quality is fine. Nothing gained by spending more in my, and many others' opinion.

xnappo

08-10-09, 04:05 PM

mitsubishi 55 " and a konka 37 ".Xnappo up there said there's no difference pQ wise .I'm very unaware of the differences ...lol

When I said there is no difference PQ wise, I meant if it is working right, the picture will be identical.

If the picture is freezing and breaking up all the time, then it isn't working right.

I stand by my Monoprice recommendation. Heck, even going up one notch from the lowest cost cable is still 5x cheaper than best buy (at least!).

xnappo

abyssrules

08-10-09, 04:16 PM

which model of cord would u recommend xnappo. say for my 55 " and then for my 37" ? The same , different ?

RDO CA

08-10-09, 04:29 PM

which model of cord would u recommend xnappo. say for my 55 " and then for my 37" ? The same , different ?

This is a good cable for a modest price. Just buy the length you need. They make a good cable and give good service.

Roy

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3658&seq=1&format=2

abyssrules

08-10-09, 04:37 PM

Thanks roy !!!!:)

nickdawg

08-10-09, 04:48 PM

really because several of the hd channels get pixelation for ex. USA wwe raw major squares :mad:! which cable would be best for my tv's off monoprice.com ?

That has nothing to do with the connection cables. It's all in the encoding/compression of the channel from the source. If your provider packs in the channels, the PQ suffers.

It's the same way in my area. USA in analog looks better than USA HD on WWE RAW. I figured the PQ was bad because it was one of the SDV channels, which generally look not as good as non SDV. Recently USAHD was moved to non SDV, the PQ still sucks. It's being compressed, the PQ suffers.

pwrmetal

08-10-09, 05:01 PM

Good god? Do you bundle? Why don't you try to re-negotiate your contract or something.

Yes I have the bundle. Basically, all of the "introductory" rates have expired and now I am paying the normal rates (with the triple play) in my area. They seem to be higher here than in some other parts of the country.

abyssrules

08-10-09, 05:16 PM

is this a good quality cable ? Yea it's cheap but is it worth bidding on it ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Ft-HDMI-Cable-Gold-1-3b-1080p-for-Plasma-LCD-HDTV_W0QQitemZ220451396292QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomai n_0?hash=item3353ed5ac4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

John P

08-10-09, 07:33 PM

See i was looking for better picture clarity with the HDMI cords.... so the cable i got from time warner is no different then an hDMI cord other then multi channel audio-video tasking ?

Using HDMI cables will improve your picture quality over other types of connections. As others have said they will also provide your sound connection. My local office Time Warner gave me free HDMI cables to go with my boxes. They seem to be nice quality and have been working great for 20 months. Check with your local office, tell them you just got new TV's and need HDMI cables.

xnappo

08-10-09, 08:08 PM

Wow, I wish I could have the deal you had on your "normal" bill. I get fewer premiums, slower (non-turbo) internet, and only have one more HD cable box than you and I pay TWC around $40 more a month than your non-deal rate.

You need to call them. Tell them you are thinking of switching to satellite or something and want to discuss your bundle to see what they can do. They do offer the price lock guarantee in your area - this is really not a bad deal if you aren't *really*thinking of switching. I got my bill down by $40 and upgraded to turbo...

xnappo

Gary J

08-10-09, 08:29 PM

Using HDMI cables will improve your picture quality over other types of connections.

That would be true with a signal with the quality of Blu-ray but with the TWC signal I would challenge you to tell which is which in a A-B test with component cables. That is why in the early days of problematic HDMI cable boxes people were just as happy to use component. That is why if you run out of HDMI inputs you put the cable on component.

HDtvaDict

08-10-09, 08:48 PM

If you want 100% digital picture and sound don't go with anything other than HDMI. If you don't care then go with component. There is no issue here.

Gary J

08-10-09, 09:07 PM

John P

08-11-09, 01:44 AM

Wow, I wish I could have the deal you had on your "normal" bill. I get fewer premiums, slower (non-turbo) internet, and only have one more HD cable box than you and I pay TWC around $40 more a month than your non-deal rate.

I learned my TWC rate was going so I priced my configuration with AT&T's "Build your own bundle" and found thier rate was about $20 below TWC. I called TWC and selected the cancel option from the menu. After I gave them the AT&T rates they dropped their rate a little below AT&T. My new price is good for a year, so I will just negotiate again at that time.

HDtvaDict

08-11-09, 04:39 AM

There is no technical reason a 100% digital signal is better than an analog signal. In fact the resolution of a digital image will not touch the resolution of film (analog). In the case of a TWC signal, there will be no difference. The only good reasons to use HDMI are no HDMI box issues, enough connections and a one wire solution. Those are good reasons. A 100% digital picture that looks no better is not.

Please provide evidence to support this claim! I do not believe this. :eek: There are limitation to analog that digital surpasses. We are not talking about film dude we're talking about the capacity to send a signal to the viewer. In this case having a digital signal is better because it's the purest form of information being sent while analog contains garabage. If you can prove me wrong then go ahead, but I tend to disagree with you.

http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/Tutorials/AnalogVsDigital.1.051501.asp

bicker1

08-11-09, 05:47 AM

Don't let this religious argument confuse you. Connect HDMI cables; connect component cables; compare. YOU be the judge.

Gary J

08-11-09, 07:43 AM

Please provide evidence to support this claim! I do not believe this. :eek: There are limitation to analog that digital surpasses.

I'm not going to do your research for you but remember we are talking about a relatively low 1080i resolution, overly compressed TWC signal. Component cable works just as well.

Riverside_Guy

08-11-09, 09:01 AM

A few points to be made. The real difference between digital and analog connects is that analog is susceptible to all sorts of potential interference along the cable, while a digital signal would not be.

HDMI, in order to show it's potential, has to be the connection method between your cable box and an AVR. Connecting it to the TV will never pass multi-channel audio as no TVs I know of decode AC/3.

Gary J

08-11-09, 09:38 AM

However S/PDIF works just fine for multi-channel audio.

strutter

08-11-09, 10:04 AM

this argument has been beaten to death. it wont be resolved here.
i can say that i cant tell a bit of difference in PQ with HDMI -vs- component on the 8300hd. i prefer to use my hdmi ports on my Tv for stuff that really matters like blueray and my oppo that doesnt have componet out. either way i still have to send audio via coax and /or optical to the AVR as it doesnt have HDMI.
anyway there is a whole section here dedicated to HDMI.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=168

Gary J

08-11-09, 10:12 AM

this argument has been beaten to death. it wont be resolved here.

Feel free to skip the OP's question and replies to it.

Is this a stupid question but does an HDMI cord make any difference on hd quality and or digital channels ?

gerhard911

08-11-09, 10:27 AM

One additional potential source for errors and artifacts with an analog connection are the digital-analog conversions necessary.

The digital cable signal must converted to analog by the cable box for analog transmission. This must then be reversed by an analog-digital conversion in the TV (assuming you have a fixed pixel digital display which virtually all current HDTV are).

A digital path (DVI or HDMI) needs no such conversions.

holl_ands

08-11-09, 11:39 AM

Whether HDMI or Component Video looks better on any given HDTV for a given source
depends on several different factors, incl. whether the (480i, 1080i) motion adaptive
deinterlacer in the HDTV is better or worse than the deinterlacer in the cable box:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html
http://www.videsignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197801228
http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1205gear/
http://www.100fps.com/

New 120 and 240 Hz LCD (and 600 Hz Plasma) motion adaptive signal processors are
latest improvements in these areas.....which are best if fed pure HDMI....or CableCARD.
They also can benefit 720p programs, reducing the "smear" of a thrown football and
the motion blur when a camera pans across the crowd.

Many LCDs with 720/768p native resolution have (in the past) taken a short-cut to
reduce costs, simply throwing away every other 1080i frame, downrezing to 540p.
This design shortcut was remedied when they came out with 1080p LCDs.
BTW: Most 1080i (or 1080p) Plasmas didn't have this problem.

If HDTV is fed an uncorrupted (HDMI or CableCARD) signal, numerous other
improvements can take place, such as enhancing edges to improve apparent
resolution and adjusting video contrast and color for a better match to the HDTV.

CableCard HDTVs (and Next Gen Cable Boxes) have newer, better MPEG2 Decoders,
hopefully with more advanced algorithms for that nifty digital signal processing
technique called "error concealment":
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=845010
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=644064
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1274411

============================================
FWIW: ANALOG HDTV systems have been used in the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_high-definition_television_system
The big advantage of digital is the ability to THROW AWAY redundancy (and resolution)
in order to fit into a reasonable frequency bandwidth....which is much easier to do
digitally (e.g. MPEG2).

phousley

08-11-09, 11:46 AM

The digital cable signal must converted to analog by the cable box for analog transmission. This must then be reversed by an analog-digital conversion in the TV (assuming you have a fixed pixel digital display which virtually all current HDTV are).

This is an over-simplification.

A digital path (DVI or HDMI) needs no such conversions.And this is a myth.

You can read an explanation by one of AVC's fine sponsors here:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/dvihdmicomponent.htm?hdmiinfo

John P

08-11-09, 11:46 AM

There is no technical reason a 100% digital signal is better than an analog signal. In fact the resolution of a digital image will not touch the resolution of film (analog). In the case of a TWC signal, there will be no difference. The only good reasons to use HDMI are no HDMI box issues, enough connections and a one wire solution. Those are good reasons. A 100% digital picture that looks no better is not.

Yes there is, it called digital to analog conversion. Today our incoming signals are digital (TV, DVD & Blu-Ray). Most current TV's and Projectors are digital. Converting digital to analog (to put the signal on a analog cable) then analog back to digital causes two unnecessary conversions of the digital signal. Anytime you do conversions to and from analog there will be losses. It is what caused second and third generation copies of VCR tapes to never to look as good as the original. I see your home theater uses a analog projector so maybe you have not been able to see the benefits HDMI and using a digital from begining to end. HDMI cables keep the signal in digital domain.

Gary J

08-11-09, 12:00 PM

Whether HDMI or Component Video looks better on any given HDTV for a given source
depends on several different factors, incl. whether the (480i, 1080i) motion adaptive
deinterlacer in the HDTV is better or worse than the deinterlacer in the cable box:

Does TWC have cable boxes that de-interlace and output 1080p?

FWIW: ANALOG HDTV systems have been used in the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_high-definition_television_system
The big advantage of digital is the ability to THROW AWAY redundancy (and resolution)
in order to fit into a reasonable frequency bandwidth....which is much easier to do
digitally (e.g. MPEG2).

Yes the PQ of cable has been reduced to a point that analog, digital, HDMI, component - none of it makes much difference.

John P

08-11-09, 12:32 PM

[QUOTE=Gary J;16981147]Does TWC have cable boxes that de-interlace and output 1080p?

Why would TWC have boxes that output 1080p when 1080p is not a television broadcast standard. 1080i is the highest broadcast standard.

ARE YOU A TIME WARNER CUSTOMER?

If you are one of your freedoms is to leave.

Gary J

08-11-09, 12:48 PM

Why would TWC have boxes that output 1080p when 1080p is not a television broadcast standard. 1080i is the highest broadcast standard.

Because it's going to be de-interlaced to 1080p elsewhere anyway and because someone seemed to be saying that.

Whether HDMI or Component Video looks better on any given HDTV for a given source
depends on several different factors, incl. whether the (480i, 1080i) motion adaptive
deinterlacer in the HDTV is better or worse than the deinterlacer in the cable box:

ARE YOU A TIME WARNER CUSTOMER?

If you are one of your freedoms is to leave.

Yes. Ok, thanks. :confused:

mrvideo

08-11-09, 01:52 PM

In this case having a digital signal is better because it's the purest form of information being sent while analog contains garabage.

If only that were the case. Cable systems, DBS systems and even OTA, overcompress the digital video, so it too contains garbage (macroblocking is the major problem that can be seen with overcompression).

The consumer is NOT getting pure digital video.

Now, if you could see some of the HD video that I see (no including Blu-ray), then yes, it can be damn good. But what I see can't be provided to the consumer.

holl_ands

08-11-09, 02:33 PM

Does TWC have cable boxes that de-interlace and output 1080p?

Yes the PQ of cable has been reduced to a point that analog, digital, HDMI, component - none of it makes much difference.
Current Cable Boxes do NOT output 1080p, however Next Gen boxes with MPEG4 do,
such as some of the new Samsung, Cisco, ADB, Panasonic, et. al. boxes.
[Samsung SMT-H3090/92 HD-DVR does, SMT-H3050 HD-STB does not,
other models may or may not have MPEG4, no info posted by Samsung.]

Initially, MPEG4 (at up to 1080p) will reportedly only be used as part of a new
IPTV delivery service for PPV and OnDemand programs....providing on-line
access to 1080p files, such as a BLU-RAY disk without any loss of quality
(ideally.....unless they then apply compression to conserve cable bandwidth).

MPEG4 data rate is more efficient, requiring only 1/2 to 1/3 of MPEG2 data rates.
There have also been presentations showing more efficient MPEG4 being
used instead of SDV channels. This COULD be done selectively, depending
on whether the server is servicing a request from an old or new box....

I have to agree that MOST HD programs are overcompressed, resulting in macroblocking
and loss of resolution....however, these new technologies (SDV, IPTV, MPEG4, etc)
are much more efficient....and whenever most of ANALOG channels (bandwidth hogs)
are transitioned to digital, there should be sufficient bandwidth so they can back off on the
overcompression....

BTW, the BIGGEST compression problem is NOT in the cable systems but in the C-Band
SATELLITE systems that feed the headends....which have chosen to pack more and more
HD channels into too few SAT channels....

Transferring more and more programs via Internet could overcome this bottleneck.
IPVT is one way to make this happen....rather than waiting for your favorite program
to be broadcast, request it at your leisure....true ala carte....I can forsee this happening
on the less popular Premium channels first, esp. when they go to higher datarate 1080p.

HDtvaDict

08-11-09, 04:21 PM

hdtvfan2005

08-11-09, 05:27 PM

Current Cable Boxes do NOT output 1080p, however Next Gen boxes with MPEG4 do,
such as some of the new Samsung, Cisco, ADB, Panasonic, et. al. boxes.
[Samsung SMT-H3090/92 HD-DVR does, SMT-H3050 HD-STB does not,
other models may or may not have MPEG4, no info posted by Samsung.]

Initially, MPEG4 (at up to 1080p) will reportedly only be used as part of a new
IPTV delivery service for PPV and OnDemand programs....providing on-line
access to 1080p files, such as a BLU-RAY disk without any loss of quality
(ideally.....unless they then apply compression to conserve cable bandwidth).

MPEG4 data rate is more efficient, requiring only 1/2 to 1/3 of MPEG2 data rates.
There have also been presentations showing more efficient MPEG4 being
used instead of SDV channels. This COULD be done selectively, depending
on whether the server is servicing a request from an old or new box....

I have to agree that MOST HD programs are overcompressed, resulting in macroblocking
and loss of resolution....however, these new technologies (SDV, IPTV, MPEG4, etc)
are much more efficient....and whenever most of ANALOG channels (bandwidth hogs)
are transitioned to digital, there should be sufficient bandwidth so they can back off on the
overcompression....

BTW, the BIGGEST compression problem is NOT in the cable systems but in the C-Band
SATELLITE systems that feed the headends....which have chosen to pack more and more
HD channels into too few SAT channels....

Transferring more and more programs via Internet could overcome this bottleneck.
IPVT is one way to make this happen....rather than waiting for your favorite program
to be broadcast, request it at your leisure....true ala carte....I can forsee this happening
on the less popular Premium channels first, esp. when they go to higher datarate 1080p.

The Samsung 3260 and 3270 boxes do support MPEG-4.

kevin120

08-11-09, 06:24 PM

The Samsung 3260 and 3270 boxes do support MPEG-4.

to anyone in a motorola market deploying the DCX3432 and DCX3200 they also support MPEG4 and something that some of the samsungs dont 1GHz tuners.

xnappo

08-11-09, 06:37 PM

Have you ever wondered why 1080p is not the broadcast standard if it's the highest posssible?

Not really. It is a pretty simple answer. At the time the broadcast standard was set, it would require too much bandwidth for MPEG2 to handle at a reasonable quality. Plus most source material that anyone cares about is 24fps which 1080i vs 1080p can both handle with the same level of quality. Football is the big issue.

xnappo

P.S. Sorry if your question was rhetorical :)

rdgcss

08-11-09, 07:06 PM

quite often there is a differnce to the viewer between hdmi and component. This is because most HDTV's have separate video settings for each input. Therefore the settings for 1 input versus another might be more pleasing to the viewer.

hdtvfan2005

08-11-09, 09:52 PM

to anyone in a motorola market deploying the DCX3432 and DCX3200 they also support MPEG4 and something that some of the samsungs dont 1GHz tuners.

The 3090 should have a 1 GHz tuner. The 32xx boxes have a 1 GHz tuner and they're all digital.

kevin120

08-12-09, 12:30 PM

The 3090 should have a 1 GHz tuner. The 32xx boxes have a 1 GHz tuner and they're all digital.

time warner cable and cisco are teaming up on a multiroom tru2way DVR.

http://www.articlesbase.com/networks-articles/time-warner-cox-to-launch-cisco-wholehome-dvr-850153.html

jcalabria

08-12-09, 12:36 PM

The 3090 should have a 1 GHz tuner. The 32xx boxes have a 1 GHz tuner and they're all digital.

According to the Samsung literature (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/05/09/smt_h3090twc/SMT-H3090_080205.pdf)... the 3090's tuners are good for 54-864 MHz.

hdtvfan2005

08-12-09, 03:12 PM

SDV is down in TWC San Diego. A bunch of SD and HD channels are down. Shows the channel not available message. Even a few ADS channels are down like BET. Don't know why they would map the ADS version as SDV. However, thats not my decision. No pixellation or macroblocking. Just that the channel is down. TWC San Diego is putting more channels to SDV for some reason. I guess it's to add more HD channels on you guessed it SDV.

abyssrules

08-13-09, 11:11 AM

humdinger70

08-13-09, 12:24 PM

holl_ands

08-13-09, 02:58 PM

The 3090 should have a 1 GHz tuner. The 32xx boxes have a 1 GHz tuner and they're all digital.
Per Samsung literature, SMT-H3092 version supports MoCA---which would need 1 GHz tuner:
http://www.samsung.com/sec/business/network/download/samsung_settop_070618.pdf
But Samsung hasn't yet posted info on what they are REALLY deploying.....

DSperber

08-13-09, 08:45 PM

Got my hands on a couple of HDMI cables from the local time warner office... hd looks really good but non hd looks bad ....guess i will have to watch non hd on antenna input . Is there something my mitsubishi don't like about HDMI ? because the sd channels really fuzzy and have outlines around actors faces for example.:confused:Just in passing... the HDMI path from STB/DVR to your HDTV is getting upconverted for SD 480i content, to 1080i as the default (if that's what your "settings" indicate) or to 720p (the alternative)... depending on what your Mits can accept.

480i SD content is crummy to begin with, compared to 720p/1080i HD content. Increasing the resolution through upconverting makes it look even worse typically, but only because you're seeing more detail on its crumminess.

An alternative is available assuming your Mits TV has additional inputs and that is to have a second S-video cable connecting the S-video output of your STB/DVR to the S-video input on your TV. This is a true 480i connection method, and depending on how well your Mits presents old-fashioned 480i SD it may actually look better than 480i upconverted to 1080i and viewed through the HDMI path.

Also, note that the larger the screen size the worse 480i SD is going to look... no matter S-video true 480i or HDMI upconverted 480i-to-1080i.

Of course, you'd have to switch inputs on the Mits to pick the S-video input when you wanted to watch SD 480i this way, but again the picture may be much better so it would be worth having this second connection method for SD.

Also, although your feelings regarding "stretch-o-vision" may be your own, don't forget to at least consider whether this 480i 4x3 SD source should be presented without any zoom (i.e. with black bars on left and right in the 16x9 screen, to keep the 4x3 image in OAR) rather than being stretched horizontally to fill the 16x9 screen. This may require correct setting on your Mits and/or correct setting on your STB/DVR.

Anyway, I just throw this S-video idea out there. Personally, even though it is more convenenient to watch SD and HD with one input selected on the TV (i.e. using HDMI for everything, including 480i upconverted) I myself use the "dual connection" method for my Sony 34XBR960. I watch HDTV via HDMI and 1080i, and I watch SD at true 480i via S-video. I simply push the correct input source button on the TV's remote to pick the proper source.

Also, you could probably accomplish the same thing even if you had an A/V receiver, as I'm sure it would accept S-video input and put out S-video output. So you'd still use the second input choice for your TV, and select that second input when you wanted to watch 480i SD.

Might be worth an experiment for you, if you're so unhappy with how 480i SD looks on your Mits when upconverted to 1080i (by the way, it would look just as "bad" even with component video instead of HDMI... since it's the upconversion from 480i to 1080i that's the heart of the problem, coupled with presenting original 480i content on a very large 16x9 screen).

hdtvfan2005

08-14-09, 03:41 AM

Per Samsung literature, SMT-H3092 version supports MoCA---which would need 1 GHz tuner:
http://www.samsung.com/sec/business/network/download/samsung_settop_070618.pdf
But Samsung hasn't yet posted info on what they are REALLY deploying.....

That brochure is quite old. It's from 2007. I too would like to see some 32xx documentation. The 3270 is just an enhanced 3090.

bidger

08-16-09, 12:31 PM

Hopefully TWC and the NFL will strike a similiar deal and we will have NFL Network/NFL Network HD/NFL on Demand/NFL Red Zone channel by the beginning of the 2009 season.

You might get the NFL Network this Season, but I believe according to the press release earlier this year the earliest you'll get Red Zone is the 2012 Season.

Well, I owe you an apology since it appears that RZC will be available to subscribers whose providers sign up for it directly from the NFL Network. This comes about a month before the Season starts so as far TWC signing a deal...let's just say I'm a bit dubious about it. Comcast has signed up and I'd imagine FIOS would strongly consider it since it would give them a leg up (Oh, if only this were an option to me), so there's a chance. What you can do is provide an e-mail address @ the sign-up web page (http://redzonetv.nfl.com/) and cross your fingers.

I'd consider switching back if TWC signs up for this, I can get all my NY Giants games in HD, NFL Network, Cable Card and SDV Tuning Resolver for TiVo HD, and let me deduct my cancellation fees with DIRECTV. I'll wait and see in the meantime.

AndyHDTV

08-19-09, 10:16 AM

BBC America-HD and HSN-HD was added in TWC of NYC today.

Riverside_Guy

08-19-09, 11:41 AM

BBC America-HD and HSN-HD was added in TWC of NYC today.

AND they were totally unannounced! We think it may be because some of the ones that were supposed to happen today didn't.

Marcus Carr

08-19-09, 12:05 PM

SWITCHEROO

TIME WARNER CHANGES TODAY

By MAXINE SHEN

Last updated: 4:33 am
August 19, 2009
Posted: 3:36 am
August 19, 2009

THE big channel swap starts today.

Time Warner Cable subscribers used to seeing news stalwart CNN on Ch. 10 will now find dark drama-loving FX in its place, while those looking for Lifetime's female-friendly programming on Ch. 12 will get competitor Oxygen's wares instead.

Meanwhile, fans of the Cartoon Network (Ch. 22) or truTV (Ch. 23) will have to roam far up the dial to the Siberia-like environs of Ch. 61 and Ch. 79 respectively.

These network moves are part of the 15 channel lineup switch taking place throughout the five boroughs.

"Together with our programming partners, we occasionally make changes to the channel line-up," said a TWC spokesperson.

When channels are moved around like this, it's usually because the networks that are moving down the dial have agreed to pay extra for what's believed to be better channel positions -- the lower down you are, the easier it is for people to find you, which translates to larger ratings and more advertising dollars.

However, other factors beyond the financial do come into play, such as viewership and the desire to group together similar programming genres.

The good news is that if you've programmed your DVR to tape your favorite series, it will automatically follow the shows to their new channel homes.

TWC also announced that today brings the addition of five new HD channels: BBC America HD (Ch. 685), HSN HD (Ch. 739), Headline News HD (Ch. 758), Outdoor Channel HD (Ch. 480) and Turner Classic Movies HD (Ch. 782).

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08192009/tv/time_warner_changes_today_185327.htm

Berk32

08-19-09, 01:27 PM

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/My_Turn/21269-BBC_America_HD_Launches_in_NYC_on_TWC.php

BBC America says it has signed a Time Warner Cable distribution pact, with New York City the first region adding the channel. It goes on the system today, on channel 685. More details to come but wanted to get the news out to hopefully calm the legions of fans disappointed when the channel went unseen during the July launch week which featured such sci-fi HD treats as Torchwood: Children of Earth and Doctor Who: Planet of the Dead. The launch is a late addition to the raft of upcoming Big Apple lineup changes we reported on last month. They take effect today.
The channel launch date announcement came only about seven weeks before the planned launch, so it’s been a logistical challenge for the folks at BBC America to line up launches. The short window was at least partly a factor of dealing with the U.K. schedulers on shows such as Torchwood. But New York City is a good place to start.

so everyone else should expect to see it 'soon'

Riverside_Guy

08-19-09, 03:06 PM

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/My_Turn/21269-BBC_America_HD_Launches_in_NYC_on_TWC.php

so everyone else should expect to see it 'soon'

I dare-say TWC's "soon" means within the century.

emailists

08-19-09, 10:14 PM

LOSS OF "DIRECTED BY" ON GUIDE

My TWC 8300 box was just reprogrammed with their Mystro software (not sure what they call it now). I had a box with this software about a year and and returned it immediately due to slow functioning. Not enough experience with the new software that seems to have been delivered to all of Manhattan to see if its the same problem, but one thing I noticed (even a year ago) is that there is no longer a "directed by" credit for movies on the guide.

This is a horrible trend, and a year ago I notified the Director's Guild of America that Time Warner was moving to phase out the director information. Very often I'll see a film listed that I am not familiar with, then see who directed it, (for example Robert Altman) and decide to watch it since I am familiar with his body of work.

Also sometimes the Actor information is lost as well, while other films have it.

From a branding and marketing standpoint as well, I think this is poor idea to drop this critical information from being displayed, even though it is still in the database and technically could be displayed.

I did happen to look at the HD movies on demand, and they still have the director listed, so clearly in an effort to sell us something, they recognize that any piece of information that might lead to the sale should be included, so I don't why there was a decision to remove it from the listing of the bulk of the service they provide.

hdtvfan2005

08-20-09, 04:33 AM

LL3HD

08-20-09, 03:17 PM

Navigator uses the same data provider as Passport.That’s strange. I had a Passport box and a Navigator box, at the same time, and was able to verify that the Passport’s guide had all of the pertinent information listed while the Navigator guide was sparse. :rolleyes: It’s just another item in the "yes, it's crap" column for Navigator.

glyph

08-20-09, 04:05 PM

yeah, huge channel lineup change here, too, as of the 25th of August. But still no SpeedHD.

Crazywoody

08-20-09, 08:41 PM

yeah, huge channel lineup change here, too, as of the 25th of August. But still no SpeedHD.

Thats strange. Here in Greensboro NC we have had Speedhd for 6 months. Hope you get it soon. WOODY

jcalabria

08-20-09, 09:03 PM

Thats strange. Here in Greensboro NC we have had Speedhd for 6 months. Hope you get it soon. WOODY

Charlotte has had it for over a year now... one of the first HD channels we got when they really started expanding the HD lineup. Possibly because Speed's studios are here...?

Riverside_Guy

08-21-09, 10:59 AM

That’s strange. I had a Passport box and a Navigator box, at the same time, and was able to verify that the Passport’s guide had all of the pertinent information listed while the Navigator guide was sparse. :rolleyes: It’s just another item in the "yes, it's crap" column for Navigator.

My understanding is that MDN/ODN don't make enough allowance to fit the rest of the data, but that it will get fixed on the usual TWC schedule (i.e. 6 months to 2 years).

While it's probably true, it also amply demonstrates TWC has NOBODY with even an ounce of development experience... or maybe they have someone who has minimal skills that they totally ignore.

Even with that, there may be issues with the data itself that TWC has not much to do with. Are there more than one provider of such data? Personally, I think it uber-lame to not have season and episode data for every serial show. BUT I do see such data in some of the VOD listings... if they have such data there, why doesn't it make it's way to the primary listings? THAT wojuld be on TWC.

Maxwell Smart

08-22-09, 07:16 PM

hdtvfan2005

08-23-09, 05:30 PM

HDtvaDict

08-23-09, 06:39 PM

If we have SDV in the Cincinnati area which I know we do, then why the hell don't we have as many HD channels as NYC? I hate u guys up there. You have unlimited HD channels it seems like, while we have just the s**ty few channels no body wants to watch. Oh and yeah even thought they're changing the lineup on Tuesday (25AUG09) doesn't mean we're getting any new HD channels. I count two that I really care about (Starz and Cinemax HD) that's it. What about people who don't subscribed to those channels they basically get no new HD channes. Oh, except Big Ten HD. Which is great if you care about sports which I don't. BTW Cincinnati Bell had SPEED HD it sucked... hardly saw anything in HD.

NTNgod

08-23-09, 08:57 PM

Kenosha Wisconsin is between the Milwaukee and Chicago TV markets.
TWC provides Milwaukee stations in HD, but Chicago stations are still SD analog only. My complaints go unanswered.

I wonder if TWC could offer the stations in HD even if they wanted to. The analog stations might be the remnants from an older, grandfathered agreement (also, WTTW is getting dumped this week - whether it's because their agreement expired or to free bandwidth, I'm not sure).

Kenosha County is in the Milwaukee DMA, and last I checked, cable is the only way to get Chicago stations in any form if you don't want to use an antenna (when I was looking, you were out of luck if you wanted to get DirecTV or Dish w/ Chicago stations).

Satch Man

08-23-09, 09:47 PM

Former NEO comcast customers will need to swap their Moto boxes for SA units Starting on Monday. There is a coupon code that will give you $25 worth of free VOD movies. Eventually the legacy Moto boxes will be deactivated so if you have one of those boxes then you should get it swapped for free.

Are they doing truck rolls for people who can't get to the office to do a box swap?

Jack

DSperber

08-23-09, 09:55 PM

Well this is really frustrating.

With reports from others of a burst of new HD channels just added to the official TWC/NY channel lineup (http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/Clu.ashx?CLUID=536) I looked for myself. And sure enough ALL of the channels I've been pestering TWC/LA about (except for Comedy Central HD) are now available in New York City:

BBC-America HD 685
MSNBC-HD 714
E! HD 724
AMC-HD 754
TCM-HD 782

Still no mention whatsoever of any upcoming HD channel additions on the TWC/SoCal programming alerts page.

To make matters worse, for some reason "Mad Men" Season 3 is not available on HD Showcase ON Demand (even though Seasons 1 and 2 were both available).

GRRRR....

Riverside_Guy

08-24-09, 12:22 PM

Not sure if this will make you feel better, BUT while we are seemingly sitting very pretty now, for 07 and 08, TWC NYC delivered over twice the number of HD channels to boroughs outside Manhattan. Everyone in the city EXCEPT Manhattan residents got a steady stream of new HD channels. Meanwhile we actually paid MORE for 1/2 the HD channels. Then on 12/18/08 we got something like 65 new HD channels all at once! And even that was frakked up... the northern half got them 2 months before the southern half got them.

AFAIK, BBC HD was the first and only time I can recall that we in NYC got any channel first in the country.

hdtvfan2005

08-24-09, 01:47 PM

Are they doing truck rolls for people who can't get to the office to do a box swap?

Jack

Yes they'll do a free truck roll if you can't get to the TWC office.

Tom Wellman

08-24-09, 04:08 PM

Former NEO comcast customers will need to swap their Moto boxes for SA units Starting on Monday. There is a coupon code that will give you $25 worth of free VOD movies. Eventually the legacy Moto boxes will be deactivated so if you have one of those boxes then you should get it swapped for free.

I wonder if that means other ex-Adelphia (like myself in North San Diego County) and ex-Comcast who are Time Warner Cable customers are soon to follow, in terms of getting Scientific Atlanta/Cisco set top boxes/dvrs?

HDtvaDict

08-24-09, 05:01 PM

I really hate all you NYC subscribers. I bet you guys pay a but-tone of money for those HD channels though. It sucks ass that I pay 150 a month for almost no HD. I'm pissed its 2009 and cable still hasn't caught up with the times. It'll be 2020 before we get half as many HD channels as NYC Manhattan has.

Berk32

08-24-09, 05:20 PM

LL3HD

08-24-09, 05:43 PM

hate Staten Island and Queens before you hate Manhattan.

They had the HD months before Manhattan did....
He(?) said NYC... SI and Queens are NYC, contrary to the view of many Manhattenites :p

Berk32

08-24-09, 06:12 PM

He(?) said NYC... SI and Queens are NYC, contrary to the view of many Manhattenites :p

he singled out Manhattan at the end

and while Queens might be considered part of NYC to some... Staten Island might as well be part of NJ

jcalabria

08-24-09, 06:21 PM

he singled out Manhattan at the end

and while Queens might be considered part of NYC to some... Staten Island might as well be part of NJ

To whom do you want to pawn off Brooklyn and The Bronx?:p

On a serious note... Does anyone know what the TW system across the GWB in Palisades Park/Fort Lee is running in the way of HD channels?

HDtvaDict

08-24-09, 06:49 PM

pwrmetal

08-24-09, 07:23 PM

To make matters worse, for some reason "Mad Men" Season 3 is not available on HD Showcase ON Demand (even though Seasons 1 and 2 were both available).

I remember reading sometime between the last season and this one, that TWC's agreement with AMC for on demand programming ended.

LL3HD

08-24-09, 07:53 PM

You got them now don't you? We don't. It sucks...I feel like pouting. I hate you TWC.Not having a full pallet of HD channels does suck. Believe me, I know how you feel. As an early HD fan, (9 years:cool:) I remember the feeling of pure bliss seeing our first (several) HD channels on the brand new and very rare HD STB. However, as new channels sprung up around the country, the frustration of not having them was insurmountable.

As you can see, some of us have this newyorkcentric view of things. :D Many of us folks here in the Metropolitan area believe that everything revolves around us. That makes it all the more frustrating when some two-bit town in the Carolina’s :rolleyes::p is sitting with more HD channels than us.

Now my main gripe is competition, as in FIOS.

jcalabria

08-24-09, 08:07 PM

Not having a full pallet of HD channels does suck. Believe me, I know how you feel. As an early HD fan, (9 years:cool:) I remember the feeling of pure bliss seeing our first (several) HD channels on the brand new and very rare HD STB. However, as new channels sprung up around the country, the frustration of not having them was insurmountable.

Many of us folks here in the Metropolitan area believe that everything revolves around us. ;) As you can see, some of us have this newyorkcentric view of things. :D That makes it all the more frustrating when some two-bit town in the Carolina’s :rolleyes::p is sitting with more HD channels than us.

Now my main gripe is competition, as in FIOS.

I don't think any of the two-bit towns down here (or just about anywhere) have more HD's than any area of NYC, so those with a newyorkcentric view shouldn't get too bent out of shape. :p;)

BTW... I'm originally from New Jersey and used to work in Manhattan... Is that better or worse than being from North Carolina? :confused: :)

There are some things I like about being here... but I gotta laugh every time a native Charlottean proudly points out the beautiful "skyline" here. It actually is "cute"... all four blocks of it!:rolleyes: (I guess I still have some of that newyorkcentric attitute :D)

...but these Panther-Giant games are killing me... any way they end up I lose... I mean win... I mean... :confused:

LL3HD

08-24-09, 08:10 PM

I don't think any of the two-bit towns down here (or just about anywhere) have more HD's than any area of NYC, so those with a newyorkcentric view shouldn't get too bent out of shape. :p;)
Yes, this is probably true today :cool: but I was referring to years past, when "other areas" were stacking and racking while we were waiting and weeping. ;)

jcalabria

08-24-09, 08:18 PM

Yes, this is probably true today :cool: but I was referring to years past, when "other areas" were stacking and racking while we were waiting and weeping. ;)

Well, for comparison, we've gone from about ten last summer to about 55 or so now.

LL3HD

08-24-09, 08:21 PM

Well, for comparison, we've gone from about ten last summer to about 55 or so now.:eek: Ten-- a year ago? There must be a lot of satellite subscribers in that area.

jcalabria

08-24-09, 08:32 PM

:eek: Ten-- a year ago? There must be a lot of satellite subscribers in that area.

Like I said... don't feel too bad. There ARE a bunch of dishes around here, though. Not having an HDTV until December of last year, I really didn't care too much when it was just the local broadcasters plus a couple of the the usual early additions like Discovery Theater. The "explosion" came last summer when SDV was launched.

Honestly, I don't think we are missing a tremendous amount of worthwhile HD services where we are now... though I would love to see ALL of the HBO & Showtime multicasts and On-Demand channels in HD (we only have HBO E/W and SHO E/W). After a fairly lengthy dry spell (I think the last HD basic additions were back in March or April), we have four more launching tomorrow... Fox News HD, Fox Business News HD, Fuse HD and CBS College Sports HD (Sports Tier only).

All-in-all, the Charlotte division seems to be run reasonably well, at least in comparison to what I've read here about other TW areas around the country.

AndyHDTV

08-24-09, 08:36 PM

according to TWC of Buffalo, NY. Oxygen-HD is coming on 9/23/09

http://www.timewarnercable.com/WNY/support/policies/channelchange.html

Riverside_Guy

08-25-09, 10:25 AM

Who cares when you got them? You got them now don't you? We don't. It sucks...I feel like pouting. I hate you TWC. Not the subscribers lol - I envy them! Sorry if I offended anyone. We got 38 HD channels most of which are garbage PBS stations and super compressed stations like TNT, TBS and crap like that which I NEVER watch. ESPN is good some times. Syfy occasionally but mostly I just watch History/Nat Geo + Discovery. Oh and Jon & Kate plus 8 on TLC (not)!

Well, we IN NYC said all the same things when other areas in the country were getting blessed with a ton of HD channel while we weren't. I had about 34 (roughly) until last December. Not only that, but for about a year, some areas of the city not only got more HD channels, but those same areas had the availability to reduce their rates while the area w/less HD did not. Imagine if someone a mile away from you, in the same city, paid less to get more than double the number of HD channels?

Far as I can tell, we may have been first to get BBC HD!

Riverside_Guy

08-25-09, 10:29 AM

Now my main gripe is competition, as in FIOS.

In what way? You may very well have more choices than those of us who can't do OTA or satellite... but FiOS is nothing but good news as far as I'm concerned!

LL3HD

08-25-09, 10:39 AM

In what way? You may very well have more choices than those of us who can't do OTA or satellite... but FiOS is nothing but good news as far as I'm concerned!No, not bad gripe, :)just your basic bitch and moan gripe as in “I wish FIOS was available to me already!” ;) Even though I can do satellites, it still leaves a void for internet. With FIOS, I’ll finally have apples to apples competition/options as far as Triple Play billing.

Crazywoody

08-26-09, 09:35 AM

Not having a full pallet of HD channels does suck. Believe me, I know how you feel. As an early HD fan, (9 years:cool:) I remember the feeling of pure bliss seeing our first (several) HD channels on the brand new and very rare HD STB. However, as new channels sprung up around the country, the frustration of not having them was insurmountable.

As you can see, some of us have this newyorkcentric view of things. :D Many of us folks here in the Metropolitan area believe that everything revolves around us. That makes it all the more frustrating when some two-bit town in the Carolina’s :rolleyes::p is sitting with more HD channels than us.

Now my main gripe is competition, as in FIOS.

I resent the two bit town remark. I have lived in London and Paris and spent a great deal of time in New York. They are all great citys.However I prefer Greensboro NC a city 0f 300.000 to those others.Everything does not revolve arround New YorkI hope on this forum we can treat each other as equals.I defended New York when my London friends talked it down.However I cannot defend your remark.

bicker1

08-26-09, 09:43 AM

Agreed. Really no one should expect to be entitled to be first, or to be entitled to have certain services within a certain period of time after or before anyone else. People should expect what they've been explicitly promised, not what they hope for.

jcalabria

08-26-09, 09:47 AM

I resent the two bit town remark. I have lived in London and Paris and spent a great deal of time in New York. They are all great citys.However I prefer Greensboro NC a city 0f 300.000 to those others.Everything does not revolve arround New YorkI hope on this forum we can treat each other as equals.I defended New York when my London friends talked it down.However I cannot defend your remark.

Woody... I think the tone of his comments were quite "tongue-in-cheek" and weren't intended to be taken so seriously. ;)

LL3HD

08-26-09, 10:07 AM

I resent the two bit town remark..
I was actually going to say Po-dunk rather than two-bit :p :D

...but regardless, it was a "humorous" response to HDtvaDict's post.

No hate for your town. :cool:

Woody... I think the tone of his comments were quite "tongue-in-cheek" and weren't intended to be taken so seriously. ;);)

LL3HD

08-26-09, 10:24 AM

People should expect what they've been explicitly promised, not what they hope for. Logic and desire are not usually found in bed together.

bicker1

08-26-09, 10:38 AM

Ain't that the truth?

Gary J

08-26-09, 11:48 AM

Is that Flushing as in toilet? No thanks.

LL3HD

08-26-09, 12:25 PM

Is that Flushing as in toilet? No thanks.
Your wit brings me back to my pre school days. Flushing is a funny sounding name but there is a rich history...
Flushing, although in undisputed Dutch territory, was first settled in 1645 by a band of English planters, who had lived in Holland. They came hither from Lynn on the representation of the Dutch agents of the Niew Nederlandt. They called their possession Vissingen, the name of the Zealand town through Vlissing to Flushing. This was doubtless the place they emigrated....So the story goes from a book by Martha Bockée Flint, Early Long Island: a colonial study

Also, from NY Times 8/23/03
''Throughout most of the 18th and 19th century, Flushing enjoyed the reputation of America's premiere horticultural center,'' the city's Parks Department says on one of its excellent historical signs in the park. In 1735, William Prince established the first commercial nursery in North America there. It was south of what is now Northern Boulevard, between Flushing Creek and the appropriately named Prince Street.
Its clientele was pretty exclusive, including the likes of King William IV of England, George Washington and Lewis and Clark, who added to Prince's growing trove of botanical samples. The British thought so highly of Prince's nursery that when they took control of Long Island in 1776, Gen. William Howe posted a guard there.

But the real action started more than 60 years later, in 1838, when Samuel Parsons began his nursery in what is now the northern part of Kissena Park. An itinerant Quaker preacher, Parsons was part of a remarkable family, champions of religious freedom. His sons, Samuel Bowne Parsons and Robert Bowne Parsons, ran the nursery, sending their collectors all over the globe in search of specimens. Their customers included the most important landscape architects of the day, notably Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, who bought trees from the Parsons nursery for use in their designs of Central and Prospect Parks.

Samuel Bowne Parsons is quite a story in himself. He was an active member of the Underground Railroad whose obituary noted, ''It was his boast that he assisted more slaves to freedom than any other man in Queens County.'' He introduced many trees to the United States, including the Japanese maple and the weeping beech, the first of which gave its name to Weeping Beech Park in Flushing, where it survived until 1998. His son, Samuel Parsons Jr., was a highly regarded landscape architect

Man, with this wonderful soil, you should be so lucky to taste my succulent heirloom tomatoes, that are ripening up right now. ;)

Gary J

08-26-09, 12:37 PM

We have great tomatoes too but I'm usually at the beach or on the golf course (year around). BTW years ago when we had about 30 HD channels SDV was a twinkle in your eye.

LL3HD

08-26-09, 12:43 PM

BTW years ago when we had about 30 HD channels SDV was a twinkle in your eye.That was my original point.;) And by the way, SDV is still just a twinkle in our eye.

Enjoy, I'm not looking to win a contest, it's all good.

Berk32

08-26-09, 12:47 PM

Is that Flushing as in toilet? No thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4Nvj3awlc

:D

Gary J

08-26-09, 12:49 PM

Enjoy, I'm not looking to win a contest, it's all good.

Good thing then because neither two-bit nor Po-dunk seems to apply by any comparison. ;)

LL3HD

08-26-09, 05:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4Nvj3awlc

:D:D Flushing Meadows… too funny. Forgot about that episode.

LL3HD

08-26-09, 05:27 PM

Good thing then because neither two-bit nor Po-dunk seems to apply by any comparison. ;)
Yeah ok, sure, a wee bit thin skinned?

Speaking of wee, that’s basically all I remember about that area-- a place to take a wee on the way to Florida.

By the way, is that cultural mecca, :rolleyes:South of the Border (http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2211) place still around?

http://www.comedycentral.com/images/jokes_vertical/v_images/triumph_v9.jpg
:D:p:D

"I keed, I keed!"

Gary J

08-26-09, 05:40 PM

I'm on the coast about as far away as you can get and still be in the state but you bet!. Residents never stop there only suckers passers-through on the way to Florida. :D

jcalabria

08-26-09, 05:42 PM

Yeah ok, sure, a wee bit thin skinned?

Speaking of wee, that’s basically all I remember about that area-- a place to take a wee on the way to Florida.

By the way, is that cultural mecca, :rolleyes:South of the Border (http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2211) place still around?

http://www.comedycentral.com/images/jokes_vertical/v_images/triumph_v9.jpg
:D:p:D

"I keed, I keed!"

It's bound to be a disappointment... It could NEVER live up to the anticipation built by the hundred miles of "Pedro Sez..." signs running along I95.:p

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3mEHv2LUGWA/R-_fMOExOYI/AAAAAAAAAB4/DmjTB3XZYAE/s320/SOB+-+weather+report.jpg

... but no worse then trecking miles off course after being lured to the equally disappointing North Pole in Upstate NY, lol.:p

LL3HD

08-26-09, 05:44 PM

I'm on the coast about as far away as you can get and still be in the state but you bet!. Residents never stop there only suckers passers-through on the way to Florida. :D

I haven’t been down there since probably ’73:eek: in the family station wagon (like one of those Chevy Chase movies) :D heading to Florida, and all I remember were the countless billboards. :eek:

LL3HD

08-26-09, 05:46 PM

It's bound to be a disappointment... It could NEVER live up to the anticipation built by the hundred miles of "Pedro Sez..." signs running along I95.:p:D You beat me to the post.

jcalabria

08-26-09, 06:09 PM

I haven’t been down there since probably ’73:eek: in the family station wagon (like one of those Chevy Chase movies) :D heading to Florida, and all I remember were the countless billboards. :eek:

First time I saw Pedro was in 1980, driving between NJ and FL, where I was building the headend for the newly granted Clearwater cable franchise... which became a TWC system during the TW-Advance/Newhouse joint venture, and is now a Brighthouse system after the Newhouse folks decided they had had enough of TW.

Gary J

08-26-09, 06:17 PM

pɹɐoqןןıq uʍop ǝpısdn

"Pedro feex later, OK?

LL3HD

08-26-09, 08:08 PM

... but no worse then trecking miles off course after being lured to the equally disappointing North Pole in Upstate NY, lol.:p:D too funny!

kevin120

08-27-09, 01:42 AM

twc dallas is going to test the DCX-3400M soon also they are deploying DCX3400 with 320GB harddrives and DCX3200's.

Masked MarvelHD

08-27-09, 02:09 AM

There were three TWC vans on my block today. Wonder what was going on.

jcalabria

08-27-09, 08:52 AM

There were three TWC vans on my block today. Wonder what was going on.

Coffee Break?

Riverside_Guy

08-27-09, 10:55 AM

There were three TWC vans on my block today. Wonder what was going on.

Taking up parking slots so no FiOS trucks can park? Did any of the TWC vans have the cable guy from the TV commercials?

Riverside_Guy

08-27-09, 10:56 AM

Coffee Break?

Snoozing like the Comcast guy?

LL3HD

08-27-09, 11:16 AM

There were three TWC vans on my block today. Wonder what was going on.

Coffee Break?:D That’s funny… and after reading this over breakfast this morning, I left my house and what do I see—two Verizon trucks. :D I had to laugh. But man, hurry up and get it done already.

Crazywoody

08-28-09, 07:45 AM

:D That’s funny… and after reading this over breakfast this morning, I left my house and what do I see—two Verizon trucks. :D I had to laugh. But man, hurry up and get it done already.

TIVO has launched a lawsuit aganist Verizon over it's DVR . If they win no more Verizon dvr or Verizon will owe Tivo a bunch of money as Dish did.Tivo claims massive copyright infringement by Verizon.

bicker1

08-28-09, 08:04 AM

To be fair, it is exceedingly unlikely that the infringement suit will have any effect on what is offered to Verizon (or AT&T) consumers. It is really just a matter of whether those companies will pay to use the patented technology or not.

Crazywoody

08-28-09, 11:46 AM

bicker1

08-28-09, 11:52 AM

Presumably that's the basis of all lawsuits. Hopefully, folks don't go directly to the courts without first politely asking the plaintiff to settle without legal wranglings. :)

Crazywoody

08-29-09, 08:45 AM

Presumably that's the basis of all lawsuits. Hopefully, folks don't go directly to the courts without first politely asking the plaintiff to settle without legal wranglings. :)

True. But now TIVO is politely asking the court to give them 300 million of Verizons dollars. Remember they got 250 million of Dish Networks money over the same issues. Tivo is becomeing a money machine without increaseing its unit sales.

BenJF3

08-29-09, 08:51 AM

True. But now TIVO is politely asking the court to give them 300 million of Verizons dollars. Remember they got 250 million of Dish Networks money over the same issues. Tivo is becomeing a money machine without increaseing its unit sales.

Which could explain the lack of a Series 4 and no mention of it at all during the conference call this week. Why waste effort and money putting out product when you can get hundreds of millions suing everyone? The lack of mainstay features on the S3 is what keeps me holding off. I've been talking with a Moxi rep about features I'd like to see and mentioned quad tuning or at least OTA plus QAM, expandability, and mainly PPV/VOD support.

bicker1

08-29-09, 09:04 AM

True. But now TIVO is politely asking the court to give them 300 million of Verizons dollars. Remember they got 250 million of Dish Networks money over the same issues. Tivo is becomeing a money machine without increaseing its unit sales.But the money is associated with unit sales... The whole point if the infringement suit is that this is money associated with sales of TiVo technology for which TiVo did not receive payment. Essentially, the contention is that Verizon stole from TiVo, and so TiVo is just trying to get "their" money "back". You can choose to disagree with the awarding of the patent, but the patent was awarded, and so the reality is that TiVo has those rights and associated protections. If Verizon's situation is just like Echostar's, then there is infringement, and TiVo is due "their" money "back" even if you perhaps don't like the fact that TiVo was granted the rights and protections that our nation's deliberate and due process did indeed grant them.

bicker1

08-29-09, 09:06 AM

Which could explain the lack of a Series 4 and no mention of it at all during the conference call this week. Why waste effort and money putting out product when you can get hundreds of millions suing everyone?That makes no sense. If they can make money two ways, that's better than making money one way, no matter how you slice it.

BenJF3

08-29-09, 09:12 AM

That makes no sense. If they can make money two ways, that's better than making money one way, no matter how you slice it.

It makes perfect sense. There is less urgency to put out new product when they are making big bucks licensing software to third parties. Of course they will still make money selling hardware, but they are still making plenty by basically outsourcing the hardware end. On the conference call, the announced a partnership with BestBuy whereas BB will off their branded units (generally Insignia) with Tivo software built in.

bicker1

08-29-09, 09:29 AM

It makes perfect sense. There is less urgency to put out new product when they are making big bucks licensing software to third parties.No, it really doesn't make sense. TiVo has shown a profit only a few quarters in their entire history. Even with the judgment awards that they have received, they still have not returned their investor's original investments. And even if that was not the case, a corporation always will pursue its obligations to its owners, i.e., maximizing long-term shareholder value, so there is no logic in not pursuing a product offering that will be profitable, just because there are other pursuits that are also bringing money in.

Of course they will still make money selling hardware, but they are still making plenty by basically outsourcing the hardware end. On the conference call, the announced a partnership with BestBuy whereas BB will off their branded units (generally Insignia) with Tivo software built in.Make up your mind: First you said, "Why waste effort and money putting out product when you can get hundreds of millions suing everyone?" and now you're putting forward the point that they are going to do just that. What are you really trying to say?

Toon

08-29-09, 11:08 AM

Berk32

08-29-09, 12:06 PM

About two months ago, I looked at the Channel Changes website (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html) and saw that on August 1, TWC was going to be adding both YES and NESN (homes of the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively). As a Sox fan, I was very excited because I'd now be able to enjoy the pre- and post-game stuff that I don't get with my EI package. Then, just before August 1, the website changed to show only YES being added and not NESN. I've never seen this before, so I was wondering if it was common or not. Anyone have any idea why this happened? I asked a CSR and they were aware of the change, but didn't know why or if NESN was still in the pipeline.

Ugh.

Things can change at the last minute all the time...

Here in NYC they had announced in July a few HD additions for August 19.
A few days before the 19th, one (LifetimeHD) disappeared from the list - and then on the 19th itself another one of the announced channels didn't show up (Invesitagtion Discovery HD)- and they gave us BBC America HD and HSN HD instead without an announcement.

(also - i think yours was the first market to even announce NESN, so its possible there isn't an agreement yet)

BenJF3

08-29-09, 12:12 PM

No, it really doesn't make sense. TiVo has shown a profit only a few quarters in their entire history. Even with the judgment awards that they have received, they still have not returned their investor's original investments. And even if that was not the case, a corporation always will pursue its obligations to its owners, i.e., maximizing long-term shareholder value, so there is no logic in not pursuing a product offering that will be profitable, just because there are other pursuits that are also bringing money in.

Make up your mind: First you said, "Why waste effort and money putting out product when you can get hundreds of millions suing everyone?" and now you're putting forward the point that they are going to do just that. What are you really trying to say?

You are totally taking this the wrong way. My point is they have shown zero urgency in getting a Series 4 with two way to market. I'm stating one reason for this is the fact the are making hundreds of millions off the licensing. Look at the whole statement in context. I stated they are making money doing nothing but licensing (and suing and winning). By outsourcing the hardware to other vendors it lowers their overhead even further.

dennis1

08-30-09, 01:02 AM

About two months ago, I looked at the Channel Changes website (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html) and saw that on August 1, TWC was going to be adding both YES and NESN (homes of the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively). As a Sox fan, I was very excited because I'd now be able to enjoy the pre- and post-game stuff that I don't get with my EI package. Then, just before August 1, the website changed to show only YES being added and not NESN. I've never seen this before, so I was wondering if it was common or not. Anyone have any idea why this happened? I asked a CSR and they were aware of the change, but didn't know why or if NESN was still in the pipeline.

Ugh.Just curious.

Why would they be adding feeds from teams who don't claim your area as their territory? Especially teams quite a distance from your area? I'd be surprised to hear that MLB would even allow such a thing.

jcalabria

08-30-09, 01:04 AM

bicker1

08-30-09, 09:55 AM

You are totally taking this the wrong way. My point is they have shown zero urgency in getting a Series 4 with two way to market.Uh, how do we know that? Have they said that they're not pursuing it? You cannot conclude what their urgency is without them at least providing you some insight into what's going on inside the proprietary information curtain around the company. It would be exceedingly stupid to reveal that an S4 is going to be available, say, next March -- that would utterly gut their ability to sell S3s in December.

It is only because I suspect that they are working on an S4 with tru2way capability that I'm delaying purchasing another DVR: If they were to actually project what you are claiming in your message that they're projecting I would buy a TiVo HD right now.

I'm stating one reason for this is the fact the are making hundreds of millions off the licensing.And my point was that is utterly unrelated. The two things are not mutually-exclusive. They don't even require the same resources (one relying on engineers, while the other relies on lawyers).

By outsourcing the hardware to other vendors it lowers their overhead even further.TiVo has always done this. Nothing there has really changed. They continue to seek out partnerships that could be to their benefit.

PedjaR

08-30-09, 10:48 AM

...
It is only because I suspect that they are working on an S4 with tru2way capability that I'm delaying purchasing another DVR: If they were to actually project what you are claiming in your message that they're projecting I would buy a TiVo HD right now.
...

You are definitely not alone in that sentiment.

Toon

08-30-09, 11:57 AM

Just curious.

Why would they be adding feeds from teams who don't claim your area as their territory? Especially teams quite a distance from your area? I'd be surprised to hear that MLB would even allow such a thing.

If MLB considers the Orioles, Nationals, and the Braves all to be local teams subject to home and away blackouts in the Greensboro, NC area (no park closer than a 6 hour drive from my house according to mapquest), nothing would surprise me. So happy my Sox played all three teams this year - I really enjoyed ALL of those blackouts :)

Seriously, MLB - pick one and call it my local team. Otherwise, you should block all Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, etc games from all the people who work at your MLB headquarters in NY when they go home and pop open a cold one hoping to see a game. Those parks are all closer to your employees homes than any of the three above are to mine.

If I could figure out a way to make my iPhone think I was in Montana or Wyoming, I'd watch all of the games on it and cancel my subscription to EI. Even the MLB at Bat app blocks those teams from me :)

Riverside_Guy

08-30-09, 05:13 PM

If I could figure out a way to make my iPhone think I was in Montana or Wyoming, I'd watch all of the games on it and cancel my subscription to EI. Even the MLB at Bat app blocks those teams from me :)

Piece of cake... hack the GPS framework in the OS!

Better yet, move there. I cruised through both states many years ago and they seemed like damn fine places...

dennis1

08-31-09, 12:51 AM

YES and NESN sell feeds to out of town systems... but with live games blacked out.That makes more sense. I recall seeing sports packages on DirecTV many years ago. From what I later heard, those packages also blacked out the live games.

Does that mean that they don't black out the game replays--as well as other non-live-game programs?

dennis1

08-31-09, 12:53 AM

If MLB considers the Orioles, Nationals, and the Braves all to be local teams subject to home and away blackouts in the Greensboro, NC area (no park closer than a 6 hour drive from my house according to mapquest), nothing would surprise me.Actually, it's up to each team to declare what its home region is (with MLB's approval, of course).

jcalabria

08-31-09, 08:11 AM

If MLB considers the Orioles, Nationals, and the Braves all to be local teams subject to home and away blackouts in the Greensboro, NC area (no park closer than a 6 hour drive from my house according to mapquest), nothing would surprise me. So happy my Sox played all three teams this year - I really enjoyed ALL of those blackouts :)

Seriously, MLB - pick one and call it my local team. Otherwise, you should block all Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, etc games from all the people who work at your MLB headquarters in NY when they go home and pop open a cold one hoping to see a game. Those parks are all closer to your employees homes than any of the three above are to mine.

If I could figure out a way to make my iPhone think I was in Montana or Wyoming, I'd watch all of the games on it and cancel my subscription to EI. Even the MLB at Bat app blocks those teams from me :)

Eastern North Carolina (which, as defined by the MLB market maps includes Greensboro) "belongs" to Baltimore and Washington. The western part of the state belongs to Atlanta and Cincinnati. A small part that includes Charlotte is claimed by all four of those teams. Those teams control the the TV blackouts in their areas.

TheKing75

08-31-09, 03:57 PM

Eastern North Carolina (which, as defined by the MLB market maps includes Greensboro) "belongs" to Baltimore and Washington. The western part of the state belongs to Atlanta and Cincinnati. A small part that includes Charlotte is claimed by all four of those teams. Those teams control the the TV blackouts in their areas.

Not as bad as Las Vegas where I believe at least 6 teams claim territory rights (5 Cali teams and Arizona).

Berk32

08-31-09, 04:17 PM

MLb claims they are working to fix the problem.

Note that distance to stadium means absolutely nothing when it comes to blackouts (that only applies to football and non-sellouts, where distance actually makes sense... sorta...)

The point of blackout out games on Extra Innings is that its supposed to be available locally... at least the team claiming to cover your area says so... of course that assumes they work out deals with every cable system in their region - which we all know doesnt happen anymore.

It works on directv and somewhat on dish (they still dont have YES amazingly) - but it becomes more complicated on the various cable systems.

Thombil

08-31-09, 04:52 PM

What does any of this have to do with Time Warner Cable?:confused:

Berk32

08-31-09, 05:01 PM

What does any of this have to do with Time Warner Cable?:confused:

well it has to do with Extra Innings - which is on TWC :p

bob2274

09-01-09, 08:24 AM

...and let's not forget that TWC is on its 3rd appeal with the FCC trying to keep MASN off of its NC systems. MASN will accept nothing less than a position on expanded basic, and without this channel, there's no way at all to see the Nationals or Orioles within their territory. On the other hand, Time Warner wants to treat MASN differently than they do any other regional sports network that it carries by placing it on digital basic.
Until this situation is resolved, MLB is not going to make any changes to its territories.

Time Warner claims that their are more Braves fans than any other team in the region, which is true. The only reason so many people follow the Braves, though, is because their games were carried for so many years nationally on TBS. If the Nationals and Orioles were consistenly on TV, there's a pretty good chance both teams would develop a following. I guess Time Warner is saying that this will never, ever happen even with basic carriage.

Berk32

09-01-09, 10:07 AM

bob2274

09-01-09, 10:08 PM

Okay, I'll talk specifically about TWC in North Carolina then. In most of the state, TWC carries two regional sports networks on basic cable, FS Carolinas and SportSouth. In a similar case, when the Bobcats started in Charlotte, they created a RSN called C-SET, which TWC would only carry on digital cable. It wasn't too long before C-SET folded, Time Warner wound up with the TV rights to the Bobcats, then later made a deal to sell them to FS Carolinas. Now, the Bobcats play at what is now called Time Warner Cable Arena.
Now, I don't think that digital carriage in NC would lead to the end of MASN, but I do think that it would put it at a huge disadvantage with the other two RSN's that are on basic. Here's a quote from the latest FCC ruling that TWC has appealed- We agree with MASN that it is unreasonable for TWC to foreclose broad carriage of MASN – and the opportunity to grow its fan base – and then rely on a lack of fan interest as a basis for its conduct. As MASN points out, such circular reasoning would almost always justify an MVPD’s decision to deny carriage to new sports programming networks.

TWC also says that the ratings that MASN would get would be very low, but the FCC also said the 2006 ratings for Orioles’ games in the Charlotte DMA surpassed ratings for the Bobcats in the same market during the 2005-2006 season (but TWC nonetheless put its affiliated RSN carrying the Bobcats games on the analog tier).

All TWC seems to have going for it here are endless legal appeals "in the best interests of the subscribers". They don't want everybody to have to pay for sports, but only if these sports are on an unafilliated channel.

bob2274

09-02-09, 08:36 AM

I forgot to mention- MASN has an HD channel, so that's another HD channel that may be on TWC within its territory someday. :-)

Berk32

09-04-09, 12:00 PM

TWC NYC

On or about September 5, 2009 we will launch 4 additional channels featuring games provided by Big Ten Networks. These services will be provided as part of sports tier and appear on channels 473-476.

On or about September 9, 2009 we will launch the previously scheduled Investigation Discovery HD on ch. 723 in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens and ch. 771 in Mount Vernon.

So we're getting Investigation Discovery HD after all (it was scheduled for last month originally)

And we're getting the whole Big Ten Network HD package every week (very surprising)

hdtvfan2005

09-04-09, 03:30 PM

TWC San Diego already added the Big10 suite in HD.

skylab

09-04-09, 05:19 PM

STEELERSRULE

09-04-09, 08:54 PM

Was up in the Cleveland area last night, and was trying to catch some football on ESPNU-HD and the Big Ten Network in HD. I guess these channels must be on SDV, because I kept getting a not available message with hit "A" to retry. And not just for a few minutes, but the entire night. I gave up.

I think it was last night/yesterday that I was NOT receiving HD wise: ESPN/ESPN2/USA/TBS/TNT/plus a couple of others. I receive my TWC here in NW Pennsylvania via a HUB out of Akron, OH which is listed as part of the Cleveland territory

ESPNU-HD was fine, but the DAMN FOOTBALL GAMES were on ESPN! At around 10:00pm-10:30pm ESPN cam e back, and I think the others as well, so I got to watch a little of the Blue field at Boise State(which is so damn ugly there should be a constitutional admendment outlawing it). The game was so bad/boring, I turned it off and went to bed(BOTH games last night were just AWFUL). Missed the best part(the sucker punch), which was after the game.

All the channels listed above were fine on their analog/digital channels. Just the HD versions were out.

hdtvfan2005

09-05-09, 01:29 AM

http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/policies/legalnotice.html

New Legal notice for San Diego. Ex Adelphia is going to catch up with the SA area for now. SDV might be coming soon to ex adelphia and maybe DCX boxes. No Samsung boxes for ex adelphia but iGuide A25 does support SDV though A28 has official SDV support. There are some bugs in A25's SDV support but A28 should have them fixed. Suddenlink is testing iGuide A28 and Comcast might be testing it in a few areas. TWC may start testing it soon for it's moto areas even though Navigator may eventually come out for moto boxes. No date has been announced for Navigator for Motorola boxes. It's in the works but it will come out someday. For now TWC Moto areas will use iGuide.

hdtvfan2005

09-05-09, 01:36 AM

Pretty soon TWC San Diego will be using SDV on practically every single digital channel. Now even more channels that work when they want too.

nickdawg

09-05-09, 01:44 AM

Pretty soon TWC San Diego will be using SDV on practically every single digital channel. Now even more channels that work when they want too.

SDV has actually been working in NE Ohio lately. Well, at least at the Dawg House. But it was reported across the area that linear HD channels ESP2HD, TNTHD, USAHD, TBSHD were not working all day yesterday. Maybe they're finally fixing something.

hdtvfan2005

09-05-09, 01:52 AM

San Diego has done a pretty good job of keeping SDV up and running though it can cause issues.

Riverside_Guy

09-05-09, 08:59 AM

All the channels listed above were fine on their analog/digital channels. Just the HD versions were out.

Aside from skippage issues, there bare a raft of HD channels in my market that frequently "go to black/gray." From 10 minutes to as long at 45. Fox, TNT, SyFy, USA, Bravo are the ones I see most frequently doing this. Always the SD channels work fine... what we can't really tell is who is technically responsible (from a business standpoint, 100% sure TWC is responsible, we are paying them to deliver a service that includes all of these channels, AND I bet you they do have some monitoring in place and get refund from those channels for services not provided IF the channel is at fault... without ever passing that savings on to it's consumers).

One could easily make the argument that we are getting double screwed!

Riverside_Guy

09-05-09, 09:02 AM

Pretty soon TWC San Diego will be using SDV on practically every single digital channel. Now even more channels that work when they want too.

Oy veh! I am SO happy we probably may never see SDV... TWC probably could add another hundred HD channels in my market without resorting to SDV. BUT at this point, I doubt we are going to see THAT much expansion in HD channels per se anyway.

Gary J

09-05-09, 09:05 AM

Someone finally realized it was his local TWC. All the hate SDV sig and banners are missing.

humdinger70

09-05-09, 01:18 PM

TWC San Diego has the 5 channels of the Big 10 Network (in HD) lit up. Showing five (5!) different games. Some football fans are happy.

Satch Man

09-06-09, 04:44 PM

No date has been announced for Navigator for Motorola boxes. It's in the works but it will come out someday.

Yea, Maybe around 2020. UGGHHH! Seriously, I wonder if there was or is some serious delay in Navigator roll-out to SARA systems because of a SARA OS incompatibility that TWC cannot fix. No reason why they have been testing since April for SARA and still no roll-out, unless it is a compatibility conflict IMO. There is some main part of the story that I believe TWC is not telling SARA subs about the Navigator roll-out issue.

Do any engineers on the board want to speculate as to what the problem might be? A lot of NYC areas have the most HD channels of any TWC market (100 or more) so it can't be that!) I wonder what the bug is preventing Navigator's roll-out to SARA markets?

Jack

BenJF3

09-06-09, 05:02 PM

I really wish TWC would be more forthcoming with information. I know for a fact that Navigator is being tested in our division by a select few VP's. Thus one can conclude that the headend must support BOTH SARA and Nav at this time. However, since TWC doesn't offer real world users to have access and beta test (I have offered many times!) then who knows what we will get. Jeff Unaitis has been pretty straight forward with me, but at the same time he is the VP of PR for our division and that said I don't know how much technical knowledge he has on the products he is testing. After all, he is really just a mouthpiece for TW. However, the lack of info is brutal in this division. A prime example has been the HD rollout. We went for about 30 HD channels to well over a hundred in a few weeks time with virtually no announcement. This happened just as I was about to jump ship because of the lack of info on upcoming HD and after they made an announcement then didn't deliver. The local website is likely managed by a central office somewhere that handles ALL the divisions because much of what ends up there doesn't jive with what is actually going on until you start calling about it. This happened with Navigator. I was really excited when I opened the new homepage to find it loaded with Navigator info only to call and have EVERYONE I spoke with no know ANYTHING about it! Shortly after that most traces of Navigator vanished (a few screen shots remain).

fasterthanyours

09-06-09, 06:25 PM

Well since I just logged back in after a long time, I got an update on this thread.

I have to tell you I moved from Summerville, SC to Raleigh, NC and the service on TWC here in Raleigh is far better than it was in Summerville. The same exact HD-DVR Cable box I have in Raleigh is 10 times more equipped than the one I had in Summerville.

My only gripe is that I can't figure out how to change the settings on a Series once I set it to record. Probably something I'm missing, oh well.

Other than that the ON DEMAND Interfaces are much nicer, there seems to be many more HD Channels available, News 14 is a local new channel put on by TWC (It loops most of the day, but it's nice), prices are pretty similar to SC, but the fees and taxes are a little higher.

I can't wait though, I'm contemplating buying one of the following Samsung's UN55B6000, UN55B7100, UN55B7000, UN55B8000. I hope by BF and XMAS there will be a 58 or 60+ LED from Samsung that's reasonable.

Later

rdgcss

09-06-09, 08:42 PM

My only gripe is that I can't figure out how to change the settings on a Series once I set it to record. Probably something I'm missing, oh well.

LIST, right arrow to SERIES MANAGER, up/down arrow to series, SELECT

fasterthanyours

09-06-09, 08:55 PM

LIST, right arrow to SERIES MANAGER, up/down arrow to series, SELECT

Figure it was simple. Thanks.

hdtvfan2005

09-07-09, 12:12 AM

G4 HD must be imminent in San Diego since it's been in the HD Showcase channel for quite some time. A new legal notice was posted and EX adelphia should start catching up some day and they might even deploy SDV which they will then have to deploy Moto TA's. Once TWC gets rid of a few analogs then that should mean more HD channels.

mpemulis

09-07-09, 12:32 AM

I'd gladly trade four of the five Big 10 channels for others. Seriously, why would they put all those here? In fact, why do we have *any* Big 10 channels?? :confused:

hdtvfan2005

09-07-09, 04:01 AM

Maybe the management likes having those big 10 channels since they're probably big10 fans. However there are still plans to eliminate a few analogs by the end of this month that should add a few more channels. The planned channel additions are great if you like premiums since TWC San Diego has a bunch of premium channels to add.

rttaylor619

09-07-09, 11:54 AM

bidger

09-07-09, 01:56 PM

bicker1

09-07-09, 02:39 PM

I thought that the FCC mandated that all local HD feeds (which you can get over the air) would be rebroadcast on clear QAM. TWC USED TO do this, but I am no longer getting those channels on my basic cable package (analog).The FCC never said exactly what you've said, i.e., that (specifically) the "HD feeds" must be provided in-the-clear QAM. Service providers are required to provide one signal from each local OTA broadcaster in-the-clear.

Evidently, in some places such as where you live, service providers comply with the regulations by providing only an SD digital signal in-the-clear and encrypt the HD signal. Until someone proves this is non-compliant, by filing a complaint and having the FCC find in their favor, then it is effectively compliant.

Ken H

09-07-09, 02:59 PM

Does anyone know if there were recent changes that allowed TWC to take its local HD broadcasts off the "clear QAM" broadcast, and start encrypting all digital qam transmissions.

I thought that the FCC mandated that all local HD feeds (which you can get over the air) would be rebroadcast on clear QAM. TWC USED TO do this, but I am no longer getting those channels on my basic cable package (analog).
Forget about mandates.

In all likelihood, they are making channel changes to their system, and the QAM channels got reallocated or lost or encrypted. This happens on a somewhat regular basis as cableco's transition to digital and add digital channels.

Did you do a complete deletion of all channels on your QAM tuner, then do a full rescan? Did you check for all possible channel locations (new channel numbers)?

If so, and still no QAM, call TWC, and get someone who knows what QAM is. I'd bet it's just a mistake.

bicker1

09-07-09, 03:44 PM

Surely the first thing to check, as Ken suggested. Sorry I didn't mention that myself.

Riverside_Guy

09-08-09, 05:31 PM

call TWC, and get someone who knows what QAM is..

You're joking, right?

bicker1

09-08-09, 05:45 PM

He's got a point. There is no mandate, nor any pretense, on the part of service providers, that they will help subscribers figure out what's wrong with QAM tuners not issued by the service provider.

BenJF3

09-08-09, 05:46 PM

LOL, our TWC reps don't even know what Navigator is and it's been out for going on 4 years! I called to complain about QAM because I did an installation for a DirecTV customer who subbed a basic package because D* won't provide him with distant stations and he can't get locals. I set him up and scanned his channels and found no QAM locals. The TW rep had no idea what I was talking about and just kept insisting that I need a set top from them to get those stations. I calmly explained that local digital signals were required to be carried per FCC regulations which further confused her. I never got supervisor support and ended the call.

AndyHDTV

09-09-09, 11:01 AM

Investigation Discovery-HD launched on TWC of NYC.

holl_ands

09-09-09, 04:14 PM

The FCC never said exactly what you've said, i.e., that (specifically) the "HD feeds" must be provided in-the-clear QAM. Service providers are required to provide one signal from each local OTA broadcaster in-the-clear.

Evidently, in some places such as where you live, service providers comply with the regulations by providing only an SD digital signal in-the-clear and encrypt the HD signal. Until someone proves this is non-compliant, by filing a complaint and having the FCC find in their favor, then it is effectively compliant.
Carefully re-read FCC-070170-A1.pdf re "Viewability" and NO "Material Degradation":
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-170A1.pdf
The goobledegook sez they may NOT degrade Local OTA HD signals....and they
must make it available to ALL viewer televisions, including Cable Ready TVs and
also DIGITAL Cable Ready (QAM) DTVs, as had been discussed in the preceding
briefs and supporting documents) ....even if that means providing a set top box
to ALL viewers in an ALL DIGITAL system. Systems that are NOT all digital are
required to ALSO provide an Analog feed until Feb2012, subject to renewal or
cessation at that time....

AND, as been stated before, they MAY NOT ENCRYPT anything on the "Basic" tier,
which, of course, includes Local SD & HD channels....and TBS in our area:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?type=simple;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=dad6f953aafce17e7d0d6bc1a 40994af;idno=47;region=DIV1;q1=scramble;rgn=div8;view=text;n ode=47%3A4.0.1.1.4.11.3.14
Note that there is a big loop-hole to this requirement....

HDTV Dude

09-09-09, 08:00 PM

Investigation Discovery-HD launched on TWC of NYC.

Not to mention Adult HD on Demand on channel 340.

Berk32

09-09-09, 09:01 PM

Not to mention Adult HD on Demand on channel 340.

a pleasant surprise addition :p

carl2680

09-09-09, 09:59 PM

a pleasant surprise addition :p

I thought internet porn killed those type of cable channels.

Riverside_Guy

09-10-09, 10:30 AM

I thought internet porn killed those type of cable channels.

Wasn't even a contest, on a box swap several years ago I got access to ALL content. The "10 bucks for 90 minutes" channels showed the exact same soft core stuff several of the premiums typically show during overnight hours. My guess would be it still is that way.

Oh Carl, could you supply a link to where you saw street opening permits issued?

Marcus Carr

09-12-09, 08:59 PM

Bornstein: Time Warner Cable ‘Notable By Its Exception' From NFL Network Lineup

NFL RedZone Kicks Off Sunday With 11 Affiliates On Its Roster

Mike Reynolds -- Multichannel News, 9/12/2009 3:15:36 PM EDT

On the eve of the first full day of play, the National Football League has 11 distributors in the huddle for its new RedZone channel, but it's in-house network still faces long-yardage situations with a number of key distributors.

NFL RedZone has secured at least 11 carriers as the rookie scoring channel prepares to kick off on Sept. 13, the first Sunday of the 2009 campaign. This weekend will also see the bow of a new broadband service from DirecTV featuring live games, as well as the league's own NFL Game Rewind product, encoring contests on a delayed basis on the computer.

However, NFL Network, whose eight-game primetime slate begins Nov. 12 with the San Francisco 49ers-Chicago Bears match-up, remains on the sideline with at least four significant MSOs, notably Time Warner Cable.

Forged from contract renewals with Sunday Ticket provider DirecTV and Sunday-afternoon carriers CBS and Fox, scoring service NFL RedZone -- like its DBS Red Zone forbear -- will whip viewers around through highlights, fantasy stats and live look-ins as teams cross the 20-yard-line, the so-called "red zone," all in high-definition.

NFL Network, which is administering the package, hosted by Scott Hanson and presented from a new state-of-the-art studio at its Los Angeles headquarters, had signed up 11 affiliates for the service by Friday afternoon, including Comcast, Dish Network and both major telco video providers, Verizon FiOS and AT&T U-verse.

Negotiations with other distributors were expected to continue throughout the weekend, according to an NFL Network spokesman.

For its part, DirecTV, as part of its $4 billion renewal for exclusivity for the Sunday Ticket out-of-market package covering the 2011-14 seasons, is pitching a broadband equivalent of that service for $349 for the season to consumers in Manhattan, who can't receive the DBS provider's signals. DirecTV plans to roll out the Sunday Ticket Online nationally next season.

The league itself has also put the broadband ball in play via its Game Rewind product, which features four different package options. NFL Network president and CEO Steve Borstein also hinted that NFL RedZone might add a broadband component down the road.

What NFL Network hasn't added is distribution deals with Time Warner Cable, Charter, Cablevision and Suddenlink, cable operators that have never carried the service over pricing and positioning issues. Members of the group were expected to join the team after Comcast -- following years of legal scrimmaging -- in May announced that it would migrate NFL Network to Digital Classic, its second most widely distributed tier, on Aug. 1. That move bolstered the network's subscriber base by 9 million, while NFL RedZone subbed for it on Comcast's sports tier.

All told, NFL Network has deals with hundreds of distributors and is now approaching a 50 million-subscriber count, according to officials.

However, No. 2 cable operator Time Warner Cable appears destined to sit out another season.

"We have four of the five top distributors on board and NFL Network has been widely accepted by the industry," said Bornstein. "It's extremely disappointing. Time Warner Cable is notable by its exception."

Time Warner Cable countered on Friday. "We have had discussions with NFL Network, but don't have an agreement. It's still priced excessively," said a spokeswoman.

For its part, Cablevision declined comment, but sources suggest it's also unlikely to carry NFL Network this season. Borstein was more sanguine: "We're always optimistic with Cablevision.

"Negotiations are apparently still in motion with Suddenlink and Charter, but Bornstein said "there are different considerations" at play there, adding it's "not likely" something will "happen in the near future."

A Suddenlink spokesman said the operator remains in discussions with NFL Network; Charter couldn't be reached by press time.

As for NFL RedZone, NFL Network has secured distribution for the ad hoc service via overall renewal deals (Comcast, Dish and RCN), as well as by inking add-on pacts with others like AT&T, FiOS and Blue Ridge Communications.

A strategy scorecard shows that U-verse and Blue Ridge are positioning NFL RedZone on their premier HD packages. Like Comcast, Dish is also making the service available on its sports tier. For their part, RCN and Verizon FiOS are offering it as a full-season, 17-week subscription play for $49.95.

"We're trying to be flexible with the service. It will help our affiliates drive their businesses," said Bornstein. "It's a fantastic asset for distributors and one that will be embraced by fans. All of our market research indicates this is going to be a very popular companion piece for fans to watch NFL games with."

Service Electric, Buckeye Cable, Nex-Tech, Mid-Tel Cable and Dakota Central Telecom, at press time, had also signed up to present NFL RedZone during the 2009 season. Others are expected to join the distribution lineup.

Bornstein also feels good about Game Rewind, which is accessible through NFL.com. The package, which allows fans to watch contests for 72 hours after their completion, is available in four forms: full season for $49.99; an individual team's complete season for $39.99; by the month for $14.99; or by a weekend for $7.99.

"The NFL wants to be where fans are. Broadband is a very important platform," said Bornstein, before noting that "there eventually could be a broadband channel for NFL RedZone, too."

Game Rewind will also feature an application affording viewers who may have a game blacked out locally (NFL rules call for the match-up not to be shown in the DMA if the game is not sold out 72 hours before the scheduled kickoff) a chance to see the contest involving the home team for free, beginning at midnight the day the tilt is finished.

"This is in recognition of the economic issues facing our fans," Bornstein said, adding that the NFL will provide protection for ESPN's Monday Night Football, by closing access to Game Rewind during the cablecast window.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/353657-Bornstein_Time_Warner_Cable_Notable_By_Its_Exception_From_NF L_Network_Lineup.php