If you look at the lineup we now get in NYC, many would wonder what we may have to kvetch about.

Well, THE best HD channel in many minds is HDNet and we do NOT get that... and probably never will.

Not to mention HDNet Movies! Quality all the way and no big bug to deal with... and the free on demand HDNet Movies and HDNet past programming... Shame on you Time Warner as you play your little game with Mark Cuban....

Let's get the deal done and get these two great channels back on!

Clearly....it's personal.....

San Diego and Desert Cities are getting more HD channels later this year.

Not to mention HDNet Movies! Quality all the way and no big bug to deal with... and the free on demand HDNet Movies and HDNet past programming... Shame on you Time Warner as you play your little game with Mark Cuban....

Let's get the deal done and get these two great channels back on!

Clearly....it's personal.....

Of course, TWC's original "get tough" situation. Wow thanks, not having HD Net really helped keep our cable costs down. :rolleyes:

Clearly....it's personal.....

Yes, it has to be; no other logical explanation. So, we have two titans engaged in a pissing match, and all TWC customers are suffering the loss of these irreplacable HDNet channels because of it. And they're not listening to us. Amazing.

Clearly....it's personal.....Almost surely not; it's business.

Not to mention HDNet Movies! Quality all the way and no big bug to deal with... and the free on demand HDNet Movies and HDNet past programming... Shame on you Time Warner as you play your little game with Mark Cuban....

Let's get the deal done and get these two great channels back on!

I think most of us would assume both channels when saying "HDNet." I mostly watched the fabulous movies (not to mention that I think some are exclusive, I saw an ad for HDNet running West Side Story again and I have yet to see ANY other channel have this fabulously stunning restore).

Best thing (for me) on the non-movie channels was the NASA stuff, particularly the launches. I'm as fascinated by that stuff as I was when the first satellite went up in reaction to Sputnik!

Almost surely not; it's business.

You honestly don't think personal animosities ever impact business decisions? Really?

Again, there's no logical explanation for this impasse from a business standpoint. Cubes offered to reduce, not increase, his carriage fee and TWC cut him off anyway, angering a great number of their customers in the process. That doesn't look like a good business decision to me. It seems personal in some way.

If it were not HDNet it would be the next channel on the list people would whine about. And when there's none left it would be PQ.

If it were not HDNet it would be the next channel on the list people would whine about. And when there's none left it would be PQ.

Not the case. Read the comments here and elsewhere on the 'net where this issue is discussed. The HDNet's, especially HDNM, are generally regarded as irreplaceable. No other channel that TWC has dropped (are there any others?) has sparked anywhere near the same outrage. They stand alone in that regard.

Time Warner to move channels in March

CantonRep.com staff report
Posted Feb 01, 2010 @ 05:18 PM

Time Warner Cable has will launch a new digital channel lineup in March.

High definition channels will move to the 1000-block of channels in the lineup. Customers can add a “1” to the digital channel number to find the HD Version. For example, if Discovery is on channel 130, then the HD version will be found on 1130.

Vin Zachariah, Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio/Western Pennsylvania Regional vice president of operations, said in a statement that the company now offers more than 100 HD channels, and has outgrown the 400-block for that lineup.

By moving HD channels to the 1000s, the company will be able to continue adding more, he said.

Other changes include moving free on demand channels, currently in the 500s, to the 400-block. Movies on demand, along with other pay on demand content, will remain in the 500s, but the channel positions will change. Customers will be able to purchase movies from the new movies on demand position 500.

Time Warner Cable’s local on demand, which features exclusive programming with local content, also will move from channel 501 to 411. Programming like high school sports, music and entertainment are available free to digital cable customers.

An overview of the new Time Warner Cable lineup:

2-99 — Basic and Expanded Basic;

100-399 — digital categories, grouped into kids and family, learning and discovery, home and leisure, shopping, entertainment, music, movies, sports, news and weather, and faith and inspiration;

400-499 — free on demand;

500-599 — movies on demand;

600-699 — premium channels;

700-799 — pay-per-view events and sports packages;

800-875 — Nuestra Tele and international premiums;

900-999 — digital music;

1000-1999 — high definition.

For more information on Time Warner Cable channel lineups, visit www.twcguide.com or www.twcneo.com.

Copyright 2010 CantonRep.com. Some rights reserved

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/business/x1090832143/Time-Warner-to-move-channels-in-March

Not the case in our local threads. I think most people are happy with Blu-ray these days.

You honestly don't think personal animosities ever impact business decisions? Really? Let's put it this way... it happens so much less often than curmudgeons on the Internet suggest, that it is a very safe bet to always assume that when said curmudgeons on the Internet suggest it that they're wrong.

Again, there's no logical explanation for this impasse from a business standpoint.That's not true. Each side believes that they will gain advantage from making the other side give in more to what they want for their side. It happens all the time in business, and wholly without any personal animosities whatsoever.

Let's put it this way... it happens so much less often than curmudgeons on the Internet suggest, that it is a very safe bet to always assume that when said curmudgeons on the Internet suggest it that they're wrong.



Remember what happens when you "assume". ;)

While I'm not denying my own curmudgeonness (Get off my lawn!), the available information in this particular case begs a difference. Granted, we don't know everything, but when the network offers to lower their carriage rights fee, which is already equivalent to or lower than most comparable programming, and still gets dropped over vociferous customer objections, it's pointing to something other than a purely business decision. Nobody is "winning" in this case as it drags on month after month. Not TWC, not Cuban, and certainly not us.

Remember what happens when you "assume". ;)

While I'm not denying my own curmudgeonness (Get off my lawn!), the available information in this particular case begs a difference. Granted, we don't know everything, but when the network offers to lower their carriage rights fee, which is already equivalent to or lower than most comparable programming, and still gets dropped over vociferous customer objections, it's pointing to something other than a purely business decision. Nobody is "winning" in this case as it drags on month after month. Not TWC, not Cuban, and certainly not us.

um... you are ignoring the one major purpose of them 'lowering their carriage rights' - they want the channel off the HDXtra tier and be available to everyone.... so EVERYONE has to pay the fee for the channel - and Cuban gets more total $

Remember what happens when you "assume". ;)If that maxim applied, then there would be about 20-30 messages posted on AVS Forum per day. Practically everything posted, here, assumes something.

Granted, we don't know everything, but when the network offers to lower their carriage rights fee, which is already equivalent to or lower than most comparable programming, and still gets dropped over vociferous customer objections, it's pointing to something other than a purely business decision.That's an assumption.

Nobody is "winning" in this case as it drags on month after month. Not TWC, not Cuban, and certainly not us.TWC may win, if either they can use the available bandwidth for a more lucrative service, or eventually get Cuban to drop his price.

I think your perspectives on this are colored by the fact that you actually think HDNet is worth watching.

Mystro Navigator with iGuide was launched in the Time Warner Cable North San Diego County (ex-Adelphia system). Overall I like it, shows stored on DVR are now categorized by title, there's more info on the initial onscreen graphic, and it's much easier to use the "Search by Title" feature. The only negative feature is waiting an extra 2 seconds after pressing a 3 digit channel number, because with this latest update along with some sort of test channel on channel 1022, means we'll be able to move to 4 digit channels. Here are some pics on http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/19/8039.html?1265305182 website. Overall if that 2 second delay s the only imperfection, I can tolerate it, and as time goes on, I'll get used to it, especially if it means more HD channels coming.

I stand corrected about Mystro Navigator with iGuide. Evidently with the person I chatted with on the TWCSD.com site, doesn't have know what she was talking about. What else is new? :( Anyways I believe its an iGuide update to a28 software.

Mystro Navigator with iGuide was launched in the Time Warner Cable North San Diego County (ex-Adelphia system). Overall I like it, shows stored on DVR are now categorized by title, there's more info on the initial onscreen graphic, and it's much easier to use the "Search by Title" feature. The only negative feature is waiting an extra 2 seconds after pressing a 3 digit channel number, because with this latest update along with some sort of test channel on channel 1022, means we'll be able to move to 4 digit channels. Here are some pics on http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/19/8039.html?1265305182 website. Overall if that 2 second delay s the only imperfection, I can tolerate it, and as time goes on, I'll get used to it, especially if it means more HD channels coming.

Just hit the "Select" key after the channel numbers are entered... no waiting that way.

um... you are ignoring the one major purpose of them 'lowering their carriage rights' - they want the channel off the HDXtra tier and be available to everyone.... so EVERYONE has to pay the fee for the channel - and Cuban gets more total $

Interesting. Still, seems like compromise could be easily achieved if both parties wanted it. For example, perhaps HDNM stays on the HDXtra tier and HDNet moves to the general digital cable tier. Fees are adjusted accordingly. Why isn't this doable if there's nothing "personal" involved?

Point is, if both parties wanted it, something should be able to be worked out from a purely business standpoint. Right now, nobody wins.

Mystro Navigator with iGuide was launched in the Time Warner Cable North San Diego County (ex-Adelphia system). Overall I like it, shows stored on DVR are now categorized by title, there's more info on the initial onscreen graphic, and it's much easier to use the "Search by Title" feature. The only negative feature is waiting an extra 2 seconds after pressing a 3 digit channel number, because with this latest update along with some sort of test channel on channel 1022, means we'll be able to move to 4 digit channels. Here are some pics on http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/19/8039.html?1265305182 website. Overall if that 2 second delay s the only imperfection, I can tolerate it, and as time goes on, I'll get used to it, especially if it means more HD channels coming.

4 digit channels are coming to San Diego but no HD channels will move to those spots. Just premium adult, ppv, and sports packages.

Oh wow I didn't even know Time Warner had different variations of Navigator

I hope that comes to North East Ohio and by the way is the guide 16x9

I stand corrected shooter21198 about Mystro Navigator for iGuide. A trustworthy source from hdtv.forsandiego.com, says its not Mystro Navigator. We either got iGuide a28 with all those features I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately the updated IPG is not available in 16:9 aspect ratio, but I'm so used to the guide being in 4:3, that doesn't bug me.

I stand corrected shooter21198 about Mystro Navigator for iGuide. A trustworthy source from hdtv.forsandiego.com, says its not Mystro Navigator. We either got iGuide a28 with all those features I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately the updated IPG is not available in 16:9 aspect ratio, but I'm so used to the guide being in 4:3, that doesn't bug me.

Mystro was the code name TWC used internally for Navigator while it was under development. A pre-beta version, I suppose. That name lives on in the intro screen you see while the box boots up. Guess they never bothered to change it.

The thing that has me believing that its not Navigator archiguy, is the fact that our Time Warner system was formerly served by Adelphia. And most areas are served by TWC that were former Comcast or Adelphia systems, tend to use Motorola headends and Motorola STBs/DVRs. Supposedly Navigator isn't compatible with Motorola systems. Anyways I don't think TWC wants to sink any more money on a new IPG system for those former Adelphia/Comcast areas, when Time Warner can upgrade to iGuide A28, which can already handle SDV and not have to totally overhaul the IPG. Who knows maybe for once, TWC did something logical as opposed to illogical.

The thing that has me believing that its not Navigator archiguy, is the fact that our Time Warner system was formerly served by Adelphia. And most areas are served by TWC that were former Comcast or Adelphia systems, tend to use Motorola headends and Motorola STBs/DVRs. Supposedly Navigator isn't compatible with Motorola systems. Anyways I don't think TWC wants to sink any more money on a new IPG system for those former Adelphia/Comcast areas, when Time Warner can upgrade to iGuide A28, which can already handle SDV and not have to totally overhaul the IPG. Who knows maybe for once, TWC did something logical as opposed to illogical.

Anything that moves beyond the dreadful Navigator has my full support. I've often wondered what it was that drove TWC to consolidate under an internally developed system anyway, when paying the Passport people (Aptiva?) to do it would have been easier, safer, and probably cheaper...? Wonder how much of a monster bonus the TWC executive who thought that was a good idea got? :p

Game2HD, QVC HD, and HSN HD added tonight for the Time Warner Cable North East Ohio region

Shooter21198, does your TWC system use Motorola or Scientific Atlanta/Cisco equipment?

Scientific Atlanta/Cisco also Samsung boxes are available

There was an on-going motorola box swap out

That's interesting. They did a whole system swap out in your area and moved from Motorola equipment to Scientific Atlanta/Cisco equipment. I could only imagine that must've been a pain in the rear end for the customers in your TWC area. I wonder what the reasoning for that was. The only thing I can think why they did it in your area is because the TWC area you live in is a much smaller service area than a lot of the other TWC systems and it was easier to just to switch to SA/Cisco system in neighboring Ohio. Was your area formerly served by Adelphia by chance?

Game2HD, QVC HD, and HSN HD added tonight for the Time Warner Cable North East Ohio region

What channel #s?

And why couldn't we get WGN HD?

What channel #s?

And why couldn't we get WGN HD?


check the cleveland thread and WGN HD see my post in that thread

Point is, if both parties wanted it, something should be able to be worked out from a purely business standpoint. Right now, nobody wins.

Actually, customers lose.

Mystro was the code name TWC used internally for Navigator while it was under development. A pre-beta version, I suppose. That name lives on in the intro screen you see while the box boots up. Guess they never bothered to change it.

Mostly because it's more akin to alpha level software than anything else. The fact that after 3 years, it's still part of the UI is another testament to the utter lack or understanding of software development TWC has.

Many has been the time that I have commented about the one or two, non-english speaking, off-shore "programmers" TWC pays a few dollars a day to write Navigator... and I assume folks take it as a facetious comment. Then again, I almost constantly see things that sure do indicate there's more truth than fiction in that comment!

Actually, customers lose.

well the small group that watched the channel lose - those that never had HDXtra (or don't even have HD at all) win...

Anything that moves beyond the dreadful Navigator has my full support. I've often wondered what it was that drove TWC to consolidate under an internally developed system anyway, when paying the Passport people (Aptiva?) to do it would have been easier, safer, and probably cheaper...? Wonder how much of a monster bonus the TWC executive who thought that was a good idea got? :p

Actually, it wasn't all that bad of an idea... it CAN be far better if they controlled the software they depend on to keep customers paying those huge monthly tithes. The way I see it is they had a half-way decent idea, but totally crapped it by doing it by failing to even find, much less pay good programming talent. Then they sit on their heels and make zero attempt to correct that mistake.

This is another of those "business" decisions. In many markets, they really are a total monopoly, people really have no options. I live in one of the largest media markets in the country, and for me, it's TWC or only watch DVDs on my HD LCD. I got all excited when Verizon fought hard to get a franchise agreement, but am huge disappointed they seemed to basically halt any expansion beyond the few areas they supposedly cover (not to mention I know many folks IN those areas that still don't have access).

And I do NOT want to get started on the whole bonus issue...

well the small group that watched the channel lose - those that never had HDXtra (or don't even have HD at all) win...Yes, precisely.

Mystro was the code name TWC used internally for Navigator while it was under development. A pre-beta version, I suppose. That name lives on in the intro screen you see while the box boots up. Guess they never bothered to change it.

Actually, it still is Mystro... Mystro Digital Navigator (MDN).

well the small group that watched the channel lose - those that never had HDXtra (or don't even have HD at all) win...

Not so sure I say them that never had access won ANYTHING. I'd call it a loss if they never had access to what many consider the best HD channel out there... doesn't sound like much of a "win."

Not so sure I say them that never had access won ANYTHING. I'd call it a loss if they never had access to what many consider the best HD channel out there... doesn't sound like much of a "win."

Exactly, and that's the point. How does providing less choice and substituting inferior channels for the ones they take away deliver a win for any customer? If they never had that tier, then they neither win nor lose. But anybody who appreciated those channels and didn't want to see them taken away definitely loses. We're losers dammit! Wait.... :p

How does providing less choice and substituting inferior channels for the ones they take away deliver a win for any customer?

These personal preference arguments never win. One persons inferior channel is another's superior.

Not so sure I say them that never had access won ANYTHING. I'd call it a loss if they never had access to what many consider the best HD channel out there... doesn't sound like much of a "win."

$$$$... I'm referring to $$$$.... they chose not to spend more for HDXtra.. and now wont be forced to pay more for a channel they don't (or can't, for the non-HD people) watch

Yes, good point: Money is the great equalizer.

These personal preference arguments never win. One persons inferior channel is another's superior.

Except that what replaced HD Net IS inferior. A high quality, commercial free, uncut, bug free movie channel like HD Net Movies is superior and worth more money than that POS "Mav TV" which shows stretched, upconvert SD and horrible quality HD programming. And Smithsonian hardly equals HD Net. It's nothing short of high way robbery that TWC still charges the same amount for a tier where two channels were replaced with dog turds.

I bet your Granny wouldn't whine if it were replaced by some new shopping channels which would also prove my point.

I bet your Granny wouldn't whine if it were replaced by some new shopping channels which would also prove my point.

She would if she had to pay $6.95 extra to get the HD versions of what's in the analog tier. And people who pay for HD Extra tier would be pissed they are paying $6.95 extra for shopping channels. Proves my point :p

Although to be honest, QVC or HSN is probably worth more than "Mav TV". :rolleyes:

Send further TWC HD channel discussion to gary.j@twcable.com

LOL ;) :D:D

Send further TWC HD channel discussion to gary.j@twcable.com

LOL ;) :D:D

When I'm DirectorofProgramming@twcable.com there will be nothing but every HD sports channel that exists everywhere. Personal preference, you know? :D

When I'm DirectorofProgramming@twcable.com there will be nothing but every HD sports channel that exists everywhere. Personal preference, you know? :D

That would be a miracle if inDemand networks could find a way to have every single NHL CI, MLB EI, and NBA LP game in HD. sigh:(

I am fracking pissed. Sat down with my wife and son to watch Smallville Absolute Justice. It was a two hour episode. So at 8:00 I get a white blank screen on the HD channel. I sigh and turn to the analog channel and get a black screen. Then I call TWC for 10 minutes and the line is busy. Finally I get throught and the recording says their will be a 45 minute wait for a CSR. I put phone on speaker and wait and wait and wait. At two minutes to 9 boom the picture reappears. Missed the entire first hour. Waitng 10 more minutes on the phone. After 55 minutes I hug up and we watched the final part of the show. Don't know if it was TWC or the CW but someone screwed up bad. I and my family are really pissed.

It's funny how DirecTV had the standoff with Cuban about placement of the two HDNets, HDNet in Choice Select or higher with HD Access, and HDNet Movies only available in the HD Extra pack for $4.99/mo., and he agreed, but TWC can't duplicate that. I will agree that it was a business decision, but just one of those "Because we say so" approaches that TWC is notorious for. I can't say that I miss dealing with approach either. That said, I'm having Roadrunner installed next week because TWC has kept in step with upgrading that service, while Verizon has done nothing on the DSL front.

It's funny how DirecTV had the standoff with Cuban ... but TWC can't duplicate that. I will agree that it was a business decision, but just one of those "Because we say so" approaches that TWC is notorious for.You choose to see the parallel between this situation and other situations related to TWC, but can you not see how utterly frakking common this type of situation is with Cuban?!?!?

If everyone thinks your product is overpriced, then guess what: It is.

You choose to see the parallel between this situation and other situations related to TWC, but can you not see how utterly frakking common this type of situation is with Cuban?!?!?

If everyone thinks your product is overpriced, then guess what: It is.

I dropped Showtime on Bright House in protest of their dropping HDNet. I would pay at least $4.99 a month for HDNet Movies alone. In 3 years I dvred 2 movies from Showtime. At least 500GB of my HD PVR captures came from HDNET Movies and BHN dropped them at the same time TWC did since TWC owns part of BHN.

I am fracking pissed. Sat down with my wife and son to watch Smallville Absolute Justice. It was a two hour episode. So at 8:00 I get a white blank screen on the HD channel. I sigh and turn to the analog channel and get a black screen. Then I call TWC for 10 minutes and the line is busy. Finally I get throught and the recording says their will be a 45 minute wait for a CSR. I put phone on speaker and wait and wait and wait. At two minutes to 9 boom the picture reappears. Missed the entire first hour. Waitng 10 more minutes on the phone. After 55 minutes I hug up and we watched the final part of the show. Don't know if it was TWC or the CW but someone screwed up bad. I and my family are really pissed.

TWC... ran OK up here... they got your $$$$$ and they ain't giving it back.

It's funny how DirecTV had the standoff with Cuban about placement of the two HDNets, HDNet in Choice Select or higher with HD Access, and HDNet Movies only available in the HD Extra pack for $4.99/mo., and he agreed, but TWC can't duplicate that. I will agree that it was a business decision, but just one of those "Because we say so" approaches that TWC is notorious for. I can't say that I miss dealing with approach either. That said, I'm having Roadrunner installed next week because TWC has kept in step with upgrading that service, while Verizon has done nothing on the DSL front.

There's some significant technology issues running DSL. There seem to be a few areas where 7Mb/s is running, but it also costs a lot less than the typical 10Mb/s cable service.

I dropped Showtime on Bright House in protest of their dropping HDNet. I would pay at least $4.99 a month for HDNet Movies alone. In 3 years I dvred 2 movies from Showtime. At least 500GB of my HD PVR captures came from HDNET Movies and BHN dropped them at the same time TWC did since TWC owns part of BHN.

Agree with the sentiment here. It's absurd to suggest the HDNet's are overpriced. Cuban gave these MSO's and satcos HD content when there was precious little of it around. He still commits resources to produce quality product in excess of other "mid-premium" networks. HDNM, as mentioned over and over, is unique and irreplaceable if you're a film purist. Not only does nobody do it better, nobody does it as well.

Value judgments have to be made by providers all the time. You don't see this kind of impassioned support for any other network, do you? How many people around here would bitch and moan if TWC suddenly decided to replace MAVTV? C'mon. This is a different and unique situation. People want these channels because they deliver a premium product and that product, I'm sorry, is priced more than competitively in the marketplace. There's something more going on here, and it ain't just "bidness". That's all anybody is saying.

TWC... ran OK up here... they got your $$$$$ and they ain't giving it back.

Downloading it from the internet as we speak. Da# TWC.

Agree with the sentiment here. It's absurd to suggest the HDNet's are overpriced. Cuban gave these MSO's and satcos HD content when there was precious little of it around. He still commits resources to produce quality product in excess of other "mid-premium" networks. HDNM, as mentioned over and over, is unique and irreplaceable if you're a film purist. Not only does nobody do it better, nobody does it as well.

Value judgments have to be made by providers all the time. You don't see this kind of impassioned support for any other network, do you? How many people around here would bitch and moan if TWC suddenly decided to replace MAVTV? C'mon. This is a different and unique situation. People want these channels because they deliver a premium product and that product, I'm sorry, is priced more than competitively in the marketplace. There's something more going on here, and it ain't just "bidness". That's all anybody is saying.

Couldn't agree more, the key point being "nobody does it as well".
While MGMHD, TCMHD and IFCHD have pretty good selection of films, none of them is close to HDNet Movies in the presentation of the movies: every film in true HD and in original aspect ratio, Dolby Digital sound, good closed captioning, very unobtrusive logo and no commercials at all. MGMHD plays one commercial during a movie, has a very visible logo (and sometimes other bugs in the corner of the screen), no DD, no CC; TCM is mostly SD upconverts, always at least slightly fuzzy, with occasional problems like tiny picture or cut off subtitles, and their CC is all but useless; IFC is worst, mostly stretch-o-vision.
Also, the others make their information hard to get. For some reason that is beyond me, only HDNet Movies gives you a way to get the schedule alphabeticaly by the movie on their web site. In addition to that, you can't get IFC or TCM to tell you in advance whether a particular movie will actually be in HD or not.

Lovely Time Warner and their lovely SDV. Can't access ABC Family HD and if Greek doesn't record tonight at 10 heads will roll. Stupid little girls and their Secret Life habit probably :P

It's funny how DirecTV had the standoff with Cuban about placement of the two HDNets, HDNet in Choice Select or higher with HD Access, and HDNet Movies only available in the HD Extra pack for $4.99/mo., and he agreed, but TWC can't duplicate that. I will agree that it was a business decision, but just one of those "Because we say so" approaches that TWC is notorious for..
Not quite. Cuban wanted both channels on the basic tier and wouldn't budge on the issue. Cuban only has himself to blame for the HDNet channels being gone. He behaved like his channels were pulling in ESPN like ratings but in reality they pull in a fraction of those ratings.

Versus tried the same thing with DirecTV and got the same results: Versus was pulled from DirecTV.

The mistake both of these channels made is overpricing their content. These channels have limited viewership and aren't worth as much as the owners think they are. In the era of 100+ HD channels, these channels don't offer anything unique and are replaceable. As predicted, most customers didn't even notice they were gone.

Sure MAV TV and other HD channels like Gospel Music Channel are worthless but it's a safe bet that the owners of these channels are pricing their channels more fairly.

Not quite. Cuban wanted both channels on the basic tier and wouldn't budge on the issue. Cuban only has himself to blame for the HDNet channels being gone. He behaved like his channels were pulling in ESPN like ratings but in reality they pull in a fraction of those ratings.

Versus tried the same thing with DirecTV and got the same results: Versus was pulled from DirecTV.

The mistake both of these channels made is overpricing their content. These channels have limited viewership and aren't worth as much as the owners think they are. In the era of 100+ HD channels, these channels don't offer anything unique and are replaceable. As predicted, most customers didn't even notice they were gone.

Sure MAV TV and other HD channels like Gospel Music Channel are worthless but it's a safe bet that the owners of these channels are pricing their channels more fairly.

This crap is why Ala Carte would work. Any all all channels woulld have a place on any given line up and could basically charge what the market would allow. If it's priced too high, they would know because people won't pay it. Then channels like Versus and HD Nets could try and get whatever increase they want. With proper regulation Ala Carte would benefit the consumer. IE: Itemized billing would be a must so subs would know what each channel cost, what the basic service fee cost, etc...

This crap is why Ala Carte would work. Any all all channels woulld have a place on any given line up and could basically charge what the market would allow. If it's priced too high, they would know because people won't pay it. Then channels like Versus and HD Nets could try and get whatever increase they want. With proper regulation Ala Carte would benefit the consumer. IE: Itemized billing would be a must so subs would know what each channel cost, what the basic service fee cost, etc...

While Ala Carte would benefit the consumer, the question is would it benefit the cable company and programmers? If it doesn't, then, no deal.

... can you not see how utterly frakking common this type of situation is with Cuban?!?!? If everyone thinks your product is overpriced, then guess what: It is.I dropped Showtime on Bright House in protest of their dropping HDNet. I would pay at least $4.99 a month for HDNet Movies alone.But that's just you. Bright House, and TWC, and the rest -- they have to manage their business based on more than just a small group of subscribers. The reality is that the things HDNet fans are gushing about are things that most viewers simply don't care about, and as far as I can tell, Mark Cuban simply doesn't get that. He thinks everyone is like the fans of his channel (or should be). And so he makes demands which are unwarranted given the consensus perception of the value of his offering.


Not quite. Cuban wanted both channels on the basic tier and wouldn't budge on the issue. Cuban only has himself to blame for the HDNet channels being gone. He behaved like his channels were pulling in ESPN like ratings but in reality they pull in a fraction of those ratings.

Versus tried the same thing with DirecTV and got the same results: Versus was pulled from DirecTV.Yes, good points!

The mistake both of these channels made is overpricing their content. These channels have limited viewership and aren't worth as much as the owners think they are. In the era of 100+ HD channels, these channels don't offer anything unique and are replaceable.More over, what they offer is programming that, even if it were the only source, is still programming only valued highly by a limited set of viewers.

As predicted, most customers didn't even notice they were gone.And most folks would have foreseen that going into the negotiation.

In the era of 100+ HD channels, these channels don't offer anything unique and are replaceable. As predicted, most customers didn't even notice they were gone.

In theory, you aren't that wrong, BUT as it applies to HDNet, many of us would say it was very MUCH is unique channel, both in the content it got and showed but especially as to how they handled that content.

The fact that I'd guess there's more angst at loosing that channel than any group of HD channels also kinda belies the contention "nobody noticed."

While Ala Carte would benefit the consumer, the question is would it benefit the cable company and programmers? If it doesn't, then, no deal.

I'm one of those old timers who used to be guided by a concept that's clearly past its prime and is headed out the door: If you listen to your customers and give them what they want, your business will be successful and you, as well as your customers, will benefit. How utterly quaint, old fashioned, and clearly passé in the present day of local cable monopolies. What a great idea that was, eh?

The fact that I'd guess there's more angst at loosing that channel than any group of HD channels also kinda belies the contention "nobody noticed."

... here maybe....

and i didn't see too many people go crazy....

and i doubt there were many outside this forum that cared much.... didn't get any significant press... (but when there's the threat of losing the Viacom owned channels a year ago - you bet people noticed)

I'm one of those old timers who used to be guided by a concept that's clearly past its prime and is headed out the door: If you listen to your customers and give them what they want, your business will be successful and you, as well as your customers, will benefit. How utterly quaint, old fashioned, and clearly passé in the present day of local cable monopolies. What a great idea that was, eh?How do you explain Best Buy? Home Depot? American Airlines? Costco? Pep Boys? FedEx? Dish Network? They all operate according to the same customer service precepts as the cable companies. None of these companies are monopolies (not even the cable companies). Their standard operating procedures are a reflection of how consumers have changed over time, becoming, in general, a disloyal, exploitative, and generally unmonitored negative force in the marketplace. Extreme consumerism has "poisoned the pool".

How do you explain Best Buy? Home Depot? American Airlines? Costco? Pep Boys? FedEx? Dish Network? They all operate according to the same customer service precepts as the cable companies. None of these companies are monopolies (not even the cable companies). Their standard operating procedures are a reflection of how consumers have changed over time, becoming, in general, a disloyal, exploitative, and generally unmonitored negative force in the marketplace. Extreme consumerism has "poisoned the pool".

I thought those companies you mentioned were the among the crown jewels of capitalism? Law of supply and demand. Right product + right price = sale. Not so with the local cable company which has been given a monopoly over cable services by the local governing authority. Sure, you can always go with a satcom (if conditions are right, you have clear line of sight, etc.) but satcoms don't offer 2-way broadband access and FIOS is sparsely available.

It's that monopoly that leads to such anti-consumer behavior. If they were forced to compete with other companies in each marketplace, as are phone companies, price would go down and service would go up. And, they'd have to listen to us when we tell them which channels we want, and which we don't. Where do you think the HDNets would fall in such a popular survey? A lot higher than MAV-TV, Planet Green-HD or MGM-HD, I'd wager.

Where do you think the HDNets would fall in such a popular survey? A lot higher than MAV-TV, Planet Green-HD or MGM-HD, I'd wager.

Paying extra for Dan Rather and movies not as good as 1080p Blu-ray? Not that high for me.

I'm one of those old timers who used to be guided by a concept that's clearly past its prime and is headed out the door: If you listen to your customers and give them what they want, your business will be successful and you, as well as your customers, will benefit. How utterly quaint, old fashioned, and clearly passé in the present day of local cable monopolies. What a great idea that was, eh?

If you truly gave customers what they want, you wouldn't have a business.

I thought those companies you mentioned were the among the crown jewels of capitalism? Law of supply and demand. Right product + right price = sale. Not so with the local cable company which has been given a monopoly over cable services by the local governing authority.Incorrect. Local cable companies are not monopolies. First: Exclusive franchise agreements are illegal. Second: DBS providers cannot be excluded as effective competition for cable television providers. Last year, the US Court of Appeals even spanked the FCC for making the same error you made.

It's that monopoly that leads to such anti-consumer behavior.There is no monopoly. The way these companies operate is a reflection of how their consumers reward them/punish them for operating.

If they were forced to compete with other companies in each marketplace, as are phone companies, price would go down and service would go up. Incorrect. We have five providers here in Burlington and our prices and service are no different from the typical. The service is as the service is. They don't make exceptions for areas with more competitors versus areas with fewer competitors.

And, they'd have to listen to us when we tell them which channels we want, and which we don't.They do listen. What they provide is a reflection of that, factoring in costs, capacity and the fact that there are a lot of different customers with a lot of different preferences.

Where do you think the HDNets would fall in such a popular survey?Pretty low.

A lot higher than MAV-TV, Planet Green-HD or MGM-HD, I'd wager.Discount HDNet's popularity by how much money Cuban wanted and you'll discover the root of the issue.

I would like to see the DMA monopolies broken up. In Utica, NY there is still no NBC HD because the affiliate (WKTV) refuses to negotiate for carriage and wants cash for compensation. Meanwhile Time Warner (the local cable op) has an agreement in place with the neighboring DMA 11 miles away to offer NBC HD, but because of the monopoly system of DMA markets, Utica cable subs are left out in the cold.

^^^I don't know why you (bicker1) keep insisting they don't have local monopolies. They absolutely do. No other cable company can come into their area and compete; they are prohibited by law from doing so. If that's not a monopoly on cable service, I guess I just don't understand what "monopoly" means. DSL is no competition; that uses phone lines, and it's considerably slower than cable modem speeds.

And I promise you, the HDNets would easily be among the favorite channels in a survey if anyone taking the survey has been exposed to them. You can think what you want, but just look at the comments here and on other TWC & HDNet threads. Just try to find that level of passionate support for any other mid-premium channel; heck, any channel period. We are not alone.

The Cable Television Competition & Consumer Protection Act of 1992 made it illegal for any city/state to grant an exclusive CATV franchise. My city issued it's first franchise in 1975 and it was always non exclusive. The only barrier left in the Act was to prohibit the former Regional Bell Operating Companies for offering cable service in their monopoly telephone area. (These were NYNEX, Bell Atlantic, BellSouth, Southwestern Bell, Ameritech, US West, and Pacific Telesis.) The 96 Telecom Act removed these restrictions.

Well, I guess my town's doing it illegally then.

Could be a state-by-state "implementation" issue....and waiting for the
current contracts to expire.....

However, the BIGGEST hurdle for a new company coming into an established territory is COST,
esp. given that they will be competing against not only the incumbent cable provider, but also
the incumbent TELEPHONE company and the two SAT companies. Good luck with that....
Digging up every street in a community is a BIG investment....plus all of the fibre
optic and electronic infrastructure.....with uncertain ROI (Return On Investment).

Esp. with wireless carriers offering I-N services and mobile TV....
And some encrypted cable channels available OTA (e.g. Sezmi)....
And the White Space Device community pushing for FREE TV spectrum,
so they can stream encrypted cable channels using only a few towers...
And WiMax expected to provide total city coverage....ala carte anyone????
And data possibly via powerlines, gaspipes, waterpipes, sewer, ad nauseum,
so no need to dig up the streets!!!!

Here in San Diego, COX and TWC are allowed to compete, but thus
far have only done so in a few new developments and a very small area
(near Poway) that had some sort of sweetheart deal many years ago....
And we're STILL waiting for FiOS to trickle down from parts of L.A.

New HD channels are coming soon to San Diego for a grand total of 95!!!! North County is getting SDV activated so those with Cablecard TV's, and Sony DHG DVR's will be missing out on all the new HD channels though Tivo, Moxi, and UDCP PC's can view those channels.

New HD channels are coming soon to San Diego for a grand total of 95!!!! North County is getting SDV activated so those with Cablecard TV's, and Sony DHG DVR's will be missing out on all the new HD channels though Tivo, Moxi, and UDCP PC's can view those channels.

We have well over 100 here in the Syracuse, NY DMA but are still without the addition of the Viacom HD networks which have been up in many other divisions for months. They add those and the HD line up smokes both sat providers! Now, if Dish would make a DVR for cable subs based off their 722, I'd jump all over that seeing as how the one massive downfall of our division is that we still have garbage software in the SARA guide and antiquated hardware in the SA8300HD!

the one massive downfall of our division is that we still have garbage software in the SARA guide and antiquated hardware in the SA8300HD!

Our division, NE Ohio, is getting Navigator in March. They're swapping SARA with Navigator. :(:(:(

Is that the first time TWC is doing that? I don't remember hearing it anywhere else.

I want to start a "save sara" campaign!!

TEAM SARA!! ;)

Our division, NE Ohio, is getting Navigator in March. They're swapping SARA with Navigator. :(:(:(

Is that the first time TWC is doing that? I don't remember hearing it anywhere else.

I want to start a "save sara" campaign!!

TEAM SARA!! ;)

I want the Passport Tru2Way guide!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/03/passport-tru2way_grid_md.jpg

I want the Passport Tru2Way guide!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/03/passport-tru2way_grid_md.jpg

I'd be happy with the "classic" Passport guide. That always seemed to work.

That screencap is way too busy for my taste. ;)

I'd be happy with the "classic" Passport guide. That always seemed to work.

That screencap is way too busy for my taste. ;)

I do believe Passport has a new incarnation more akin to the old, just with some updates and tweaks.

I would like to see the DMA monopolies broken up. In Utica, NY there is still no NBC HD because the affiliate (WKTV) refuses to negotiate for carriage and wants cash for compensation. Meanwhile Time Warner (the local cable op) has an agreement in place with the neighboring DMA 11 miles away to offer NBC HD, but because of the monopoly system of DMA markets, Utica cable subs are left out in the cold.Putting aside your distractingly misleading use of the word "monopoly", it is important to recognize that respecting affiliates' DMA exclusivity is an explicit public interest, that the FCC defends, not polices against. So effectively, despite the fact that it adversely affects you, the way things are, in that regard, is determined to be "in the public interest".

^^^I don't know why you (bicker1) keep insisting they don't have local monopolies. Because they absolutely don't. There is competition among subscription television service providers in every market in the nation.

No other cable company can come into their area and competeThe law says that you are "absolutely" wrong.

they are prohibited by law from doing so.The law explicitly says that they can -- that exclusive franchise agreements are illegal.

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

If that's not a monopoly on cable service, I guess I just don't understand what "monopoly" means.I'm trying my best to explain what the word means in the minds of most casual readers, specifically, that there are no other suppliers of what is being purchased. The reason why the government doesn't break up the providers of, or regulate the pricing of, expanded basic cable service is because they aren't monopolies, and our laws say that in that case that breaking them up or regulating that pricing would be a violation of the government's mandate.

DSL is no competition; that uses phone lines, and it's considerably slower than cable modem speeds.That's faulty logic: It would mean that the "best" supplier of any specific thing therefore would be a monopoly because no other supplier provides the service at that level of quality.

I know that as a consumer you wish that everything was structured to your personal benefit, but the marketplace is structured, deliberately, to balance the wishes of consumers with that of suppliers, and society's interest is not in fostering consumption but rather in fostering economic activity.

And I promise you, the HDNets would easily be among the favorite channels in a survey if anyone taking the survey has been exposed to them.Sorry, but I promise you that you'd be wrong about that. I've watched the channels. They suck AFAIC, and I believe most people would surely prefer to not have to pay for them, which they'd be forced to if they were on the expanded basic tier.

You can think what you want, but just look at the comments here and on other TWC & HDNet threads. Just try to find that level of passionate support for any other mid-premium channel; heck, any channel period. We are not alone.If the channel was "mid-premium" instead of expanded basic, then the contract would have been signed. Even you are effectively admitting that Cuban was wrong -- that the channel should be up on a higher-tier of service, where TWC wanted to put it, rather than on the expanded basic tier.

Well, I guess my town's doing it illegally then.No: Your town is simply not doing what you think they're doing.

However, the BIGGEST hurdle for a new company coming into an established territory is COST, esp. given that they will be competing against not only the incumbent cable provider, but also
the incumbent TELEPHONE company and the two SAT companies. Good luck with that....Of course, the incumbent telephone company, itself, represent a potential competitor, as do, as you correctly point out, the two satellite service providers. And, of course, that last bit is the part that the PP (and incidentally, at times, the FCC) overlooked.

You are correct that installing a network is a big investment. Competitors do so in proportion to the extent that consumers are willing to incentivize doing so, by offering a substantial profit motive. If consumers are already paying so little that there isn't enough money to be made putting in yet-another competing service provider, then it is irrational to expect more competitors to enter the marketplace.

By definition

Monopoly
1. 1exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action

2. 2exclusive possession or control

3. 3a commodity controlled by one party

4. 4one that has a monopoly


Certainly applies in to my area.

^^^I don't know why you (bicker1) keep insisting they don't have local monopolies. They absolutely do. No other cable company can come into their area and compete; they are prohibited by law from doing so. If that's not a monopoly on cable service, I guess I just don't understand what "monopoly" means. DSL is no competition; that uses phone lines, and it's considerably slower than cable modem speeds.

And I promise you, the HDNets would easily be among the favorite channels in a survey if anyone taking the survey has been exposed to them. You can think what you want, but just look at the comments here and on other TWC & HDNet threads. Just try to find that level of passionate support for any other mid-premium channel; heck, any channel period. We are not alone.

bicker1 sounds like a lobbyist for the cable industry, an employee of TWC or perhaps both..

By definition Unfortunately, not many people think in the same terms as dictionary definitions. Besides, as you pointed out, there are actually multiple definitions in play here. Which one is the one intended? Well, since the word was used in a manner to cast aspersions on the service provider, the definition most likely to be inferred is the one that is most nefarious in nature.

Certainly applies in to my area.Define "area". If you mean your market, then I believe you're mistaken. If you mean your personal apartment or house, then it doesn't matter to anyone else.

bicker1 sounds like a lobbyist for the cable industry, an employee of TWC or perhaps both..None of the above. I'm an American.

Time Warner Cable has had a Monopoly in NYC for years. In certain parts, Manhattan for example TW is the only way some people can watch TV.

Our division, NE Ohio, is getting Navigator in March. They're swapping SARA with Navigator. :(:(:(

Is that the first time TWC is doing that? I don't remember hearing it anywhere else.

I want to start a "save sara" campaign!!

TEAM SARA!! ;)

Seems from what I read, SARA folks generally are very happy to get 'gatored. The real malcontents are those pesky Passport folks who suffered a downgrade in functionality.

Not that I watch MSNBC for their news coverage, but MSNBC HD (ch. 750) was added to the Time Warner Cable San Diego North County (ex-Adelphia) lineup this morning. At least we're finally covered and caught up to watch the Olympics in stunning HD on all the NBC Universal Cable Networks (USA HD, CNBC HD, MSNBC HD) in addition obviously our local NBC station KNSD. I guess Bravo isn't carrying any Olympics coverage this year according to the nbcolympics.com website. It's a bummer that Time Warner isn't making Universal HD available to everyone during the Olympics.

I find this argument baffling. I know darn well that TWC has a local cable monopoly here. Just north of Charlotte in Huntersville, it's Adelphia. Just south of Charlotte over the border in SC, it's Comporium. No cable company can intrude on another's "turf". That's a monopoly, no matter how much bicker1 protests to the contrary. Somehow, someway, the local authorities guarantee this. Such has it always been, since the dawn of the cable age. And again, DSL and FIOS and satco's are not equivalent providers. DSL uses phone lines, FIOS uses fiber, and satco's use satellites. Nobody else is allowed to use copper cable except the cable company which has been given an exclusive territory, in my case TWC. He can argue the point all he wants, but that's the reality I live in, as do many others all over the country.

But he really lost me when he said that HDNet "sucks". I guess he just ignores us when we explain that HDNet Movies is totally unique and irreplacable and patiently explain why. Whether you're a movie lover or not (and clearly he's not), the channel doesn't "suck" - they do what they do better than anyone else. And Cuban's demands were not out of line; there's something else afoot here, which is all I've been trying to say.

This is the last post I'm going to make on the subject since it's becoming pointless to try and debate this position. The reality is what it is, and TWC has a local monopoly here, whether it's called an "exclusive agreement" or whatever. Period. Anyone who lives here knows this.

Putting aside your distractingly misleading use of the word "monopoly", it is important to recognize that respecting affiliates' DMA exclusivity is an explicit public interest, that the FCC defends, not polices against. So effectively, despite the fact that it adversely affects you, the way things are, in that regard, is determined to be "in the public interest".

Sorry, DMA's ARE basically government granted monopolies.

A monopoly exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it. DMA restrictions are EXACTLY this. A local affiliate can block access to a product (in Utica's case, NBC-HD) by NOT allowing a competing/neighboring market to be brought in. I believe you tried to make this argument before, so I'm not going to further the discussion thereby hijacking the thread after proving my point. Game Over.

It would appear that bicker should have learned a lesson from this one.

Our division, NE Ohio, is getting Navigator in March. They're swapping SARA with Navigator. :(:(:(

Is that the first time TWC is doing that? I don't remember hearing it anywhere else.

I want to start a "save sara" campaign!!

TEAM SARA!! ;)

nickdawg,

If you could explain your discontent for Navigator as opposed to SARA, it would be greatly appreciated.

I just don't understand is all I am saying. Like you, I am out of NE Ohio for my cable services as well(Hermitage, PA with the hub coming out of Akron, OH). I just have the basic digital, plus the HD(not including the HD level for MAVTV/etc...)

I only have one box in the house(SA 4250HDC). Does this mean I will have to trade in my box for something else when the new lineup goes into effect March 8th, or around there?

I am more than happy with the current program guide and everything else.

Is Navigator going to make me want to throw out my box or something because the guide and it's usage is just a**backwards compared to what I have now?

I have had the box only for 1 year up to this point, and I have to admit, other than some hiccups in the first month or two of last year with the VOD service, I have been nothing but pleased with TWC overall performance with the 4250HDC box, and it's building of it's HD that is made available.

Just wondering.

nickdawg,

If you could explain your discontent for Navigator as opposed to SARA, it would be greatly appreciated.


He has discontent for everything TWC. You may want to check the Navigator thread.

He has discontent for everything TWC. You may want to check the Navigator thread.

Who wouldn't? Slow DVRs with an ugly non-hd interface, take forever to roll out anything, no standard "if we have an agreement, every division gets those channels now" idea that's so cool about satellite, and the lovely SDV idea cable companies are embracing so I can see something I want to watch but be unable to access it because the "node" is full. My TiVo recorded black last night thanks to this crap.

All in all Time Warner in our division does a great job providing services. The Roadrunner is top notch (I frequently get 30Mbps DL speeds with an average of 20Mbps). The Digital Phone has been great and the cable portion as far as content is just about there as we are only missing the Viacom HD networks. We have over 100 channels and I have never had an outage due to SDV here. Now, I have still been critical of TWC mainly because of the timeframes in getting us to this point and while I currently have no gripes about the actual service, I do have a major bone to pick with the lack of technology on the user end. The DVR and Software is ANCIENT! They need to get with the times or at least allow third party companies to come in and offer high end boxes to premium customers. My division crushes satellite in everyway EXCEPT for the set top box & it's features.

4 new HD channels came to San Diego.

CH. 629 Cinemax East HD
CH. 746 Weather HD
CH. 774 Hallmark Channel HD not Hallmark Movies HD
CH. 797 G4 HD

4 new HD channels came to San Diego.

CH. 629 Cinemax East HD
CH. 746 Weather HD
CH. 774 Hallmark Channel HD not Hallmark Movies HD
CH. 797 G4 HD

How is Hallmark HD
that is the only one we don't have over in NEO/Western PA out of that bunch

Just like Hallmark Movies in regards to SD programming. They show it in OAR but have this giant HD logo on the right sidebar.

He has discontent for everything TWC. You may want to check the Navigator thread.

Nick really does hate everything Time Warner. Check the Navigator thread.

nickdawg,

If you could explain your discontent for Navigator as opposed to SARA, it would be greatly appreciated.

I just don't understand is all I am saying. Like you, I am out of NE Ohio for my cable services as well(Hermitage, PA with the hub coming out of Akron, OH). I just have the basic digital, plus the HD(not including the HD level for MAVTV/etc...)

I only have one box in the house(SA 4250HDC). Does this mean I will have to trade in my box for something else when the new lineup goes into effect March 8th, or around there?

I am more than happy with the current program guide and everything else.

Is Navigator going to make me want to throw out my box or something because the guide and it's usage is just a**backwards compared to what I have now?

I have had the box only for 1 year up to this point, and I have to admit, other than some hiccups in the first month or two of last year with the VOD service, I have been nothing but pleased with TWC overall performance with the 4250HDC box, and it's building of it's HD that is made available.

Just wondering.

No, you don't have to trade in the box. They will download the software sometime overnight. Basically, you wake up and the TV guide/menus look different. Same thing with the channel lineup, it's just gonna change overnight some time in March.

My problem with Navigator, it's like a bad lab experiment. It's like they combined SARA and Passport as a clone expecting Dolly the sheep as a result but ended up with an offspring something more like that of a six pack drinking, chain smoking pregnant woman. Instead you have a funky UI that lacks common sense and basic features like a time indicator on the progress bar(like even You Tube has) and the underlying software is full of bugs.

Like the recording bug. I've had at least 4 software downloads in the last six months and it still has the same problem. Just last week I recorded six shows back to back. Only half of them recorded. All the episodes that started at :30 said "channel not available". Yet another time I adjusted the recording time to cut two minutes off the end of the first episode(because this channel shows commercials then) and both episodes recorded fine.

So what, I can't record a show because it's back to back with another show? What a load of crap!! Even my old VCR can beat the pants off this thing. Over $100 a month for this piece of sh-t Navigator that's gonna tell me what I can and can't record.

User error. Back to back shows record fine.

TWC San Diego is taking around 4 HD channels off of SDV. I guess they found them to be watched enough that they had to put them onto linear channels.

User error. Back to back shows record fine.

So that's what TWC is calling it now. :p It's NOT user error!! All six episodes were red, I recorded ALL of them. The "recording log" list shows them as "NOT RECORDED BECAUSE THE CHANNEL WAS NOT AVAILABLE". How is that user error? How can the user make the channel not available? That's absurd.

I find this argument baffling. I know darn well that TWC has a local cable monopoly here.No: The reality is that they are just the only terrestrial subscription television service provider willing to service your are. Big difference.

That's a monopoly, no matter how much bicker1 protests to the contrary.It's not me. I don't matter. It's the law.

Somehow, someway, the local authorities guarantee this.Perhaps without realizing, you're making a baseless accusation of wrong-doing by local authorities.

Nobody else is allowed to use copper cable except the cable company which has been given an exclusive territory, in my case TWC.Again, that is not the case. All such laws were struck down by federal statute over fifteen years ago.

He can argue the point all he wants, but that's the reality I live in, as do many others all over the country.You can, of course, limit yourself to terrestrial providers, as a matter of personal preference. Please be sure that I didn't mean you couldn't make that choice for yourself, or that other choices you've made for yourself could have limited your personal choices.

But he really lost me when he said that HDNet "sucks".Well, you've been insisting that it is great, so I tried to speak to you in the same language. The point is that there are differences of opinion.

I guess he just ignores us when we explain that HDNet Movies is totally unique and irreplacable and patiently explain why.No, not "ignores" but rather I place such comments in their proper perspective. X number of people saying something, leaving 260 million minus X who haven't weighed in.

And Cuban's demands were not out of line; there's something else afoot here, which is all I've been trying to say. I respect the fact that you wish that Cuban's demands were not out of line. I also respect the fact that, because you aren't getting what you want, you would like to find someone to blame for your situation. I think, though, that you're not trafficking in facts, but rather innuendo, and you've even confirmed that here, by voicing the ominous but vague, "something else afoot here..."

Sorry, DMA's ARE basically government granted monopolies.There is no question that broadcasters have exclusivity for distribution of a certain network's programming. That is not a monopoly. A monopoly would be if a specific broadcaster was the only one allowed to broadcast in a specific market.

A monopoly exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.Correct. The key word there is "sufficient" and you only can know what is sufficient if you have been following the decisions issued by agencies and courts for the last 30 years.

It would appear that bicker should have learned a lesson from this one.Stan: Hopefully you and others have. I may not know radio engineering, but I know business law.

Does anyone know what HD channels will come soon to South Los Angeles? I am getting Time Warner Cable this Sunday.

A monopoly would be if a specific broadcaster was the only one allowed to broadcast in a specific market.


And thank you for proving my point. That is EXACTLY what DMA restrictions do. Game, Set, Match.

Does anyone know what HD channels will come soon to South Los Angeles? I am getting Time Warner Cable this Sunday.

Nope and this is one of my major beefs with Time Warner. They keep their customers in the dark. In my market, they won't tell us anything about what's coming soon either hardware or programming-wise. We just have to stumble upon the new channels by accident. I frequently scroll through my HD Tier to keep tabs on what channels they have added. It's really stupid. You think when they add HD content they would send an email blast, update the web page, advertise it in their spots, etc especially with the satco's touting their HD line ups and capacity. Not Time Warner...

No, you don't have to trade in the box. They will download the software sometime overnight. Basically, you wake up and the TV guide/menus look different. Same thing with the channel lineup, it's just gonna change overnight some time in March.

My problem with Navigator, it's like a bad lab experiment. It's like they combined SARA and Passport as a clone expecting Dolly the sheep as a result but ended up with an offspring something more like that of a six pack drinking, chain smoking pregnant woman. Instead you have a funky UI that lacks common sense and basic features like a time indicator on the progress bar(like even You Tube has) and the underlying software is full of bugs.

Like the recording bug. I've had at least 4 software downloads in the last six months and it still has the same problem. Just last week I recorded six shows back to back. Only half of them recorded. All the episodes that started at :30 said "channel not available". Yet another time I adjusted the recording time to cut two minutes off the end of the first episode(because this channel shows commercials then) and both episodes recorded fine.

So what, I can't record a show because it's back to back with another show? What a load of crap!! Even my old VCR can beat the pants off this thing. Over $100 a month for this piece of sh-t Navigator that's gonna tell me what I can and can't record.

Told you that Nick hated TWC. In the six months I have had Navigator. Version 3.3.32 it is very very stable. I have not missed a single recording and that is the God honest truth.. Sorry for your problems Nick. Maybe the engineers in my division are superior to the ones in yours in staying on top of problems.

Told you that Nick hated TWC. In the six months I have had Navigator. Version 3.3.32 it is very very stable. I have not missed a single recording and that is the God honest truth.. Sorry for your problems Nick. Maybe the engineers in my division are superior to the ones in yours in staying on top of problems.

I really think there is a continental divide between divisions. Our division was suppose to get Navigator last year in January. The widespread problems apparently prompted them to hold off and to this day, they are still testing it in house.

Well its been awhile since Time Warner has added anything new up in Corpus Christi,Tx area. Maybe we will get lucky and they will just add more channels. Although i do find it funny that we have Hd channels in the 900's then the same channels in the 1200's.

All in all Time Warner in our division does a great job providing services. My division crushes satellite in everyway EXCEPT for the set top box & it's features.

...EXCEPT they don't offer HDNET!

Beware, TW of Central NY, FIOS will be in Syracuse sooner rather than later. Their fiber optic cable already runs past my house.

I really think there is a continental divide between divisions. Our division was suppose to get Navigator last year in January. The widespread problems apparently prompted them to hold off and to this day, they are still testing it in house.

And I get the feeling my division is gonna be the first area they do it. How nice to be used as research torture victims test subjects.

...EXCEPT they don't offer HDNET!

Beware, TW of Central NY, FIOS will be in Syracuse sooner rather than later. Their fiber optic cable already runs past my house.

True, but I don't care about those and won't pay extra to get them if TW starts offering them. We still have more mainstream HD than DirecTV right now. Where I live, FiOS won't be coming for years, so my only competition is sat and neither can compete pricewise with what I'm paying TW right now. However, Fios competition ANYWHERE in the market is good news, because it will help contain TW for the entire market.

And I get the feeling my division is gonna be the first area they do it. How nice to be used as research torture victims test subjects.

Well, I for one am anxiously awaiting the fallout (good or bad) from the first SARA division that actually gets converted!

Honestly, if there weren't a monopoly on cable service in my area, I would switch cable providers simply because of this HDNet issue. But there are no other options for cable service, which is why this whole monopoly discussion got started. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I figure everybody offers the same lineup for most every channel I'm remotely interested in. Only TWC sees fit to have a hissy fit where HDNet is concerned. Shame on them, and shame on the local governing authorities that grant these local monopolies (or "exclusive licensing agreements", to placate bicker1) that prevent competition from furnishing the usual price/fee mitigating influence that the free enterprise system is supposed to provide.

User error my ***. I just recorded two show back to back on NCKHD. George Lopez at 10:30 recorded OK. At 11pm there was an entry in the show list for the Nanny---it said it was recording. As soon as 11:30 came around, the record light went off. That episode of the Nanny disappeared from the recording list. It's now in the recording log as "The set-top was unable to record this program(7)". I'm trying another hour back to back on this channel and back to back hour on a different channel after that.

User error my ***. I just recorded two show back to back on NCKHD. George Lopez at 10:30 recorded OK. At 11pm there was an entry in the show list for the Nanny---it said it was recording. As soon as 11:30 came around, the record light went off. That episode of the Nanny disappeared from the recording list. It's now in the recording log as "The set-top was unable to record this program(7)". I'm trying another hour back to back on this channel and back to back hour on a different channel after that.

this has happened to me before.... a simple reboot fixes it..

So I tried another recording on NCKHD and it did the same thing. First show recorded fine, the second one went to the recording log as unavailable even though the recording light was on the entire time.

I also tried another recording on comedy hd. South Park recorded completely, the episode of Futurama right after only recorded 15 minutes out of 30.

Still gonna call that user error? :rolleyes:

True, but I don't care about those and won't pay extra to get them if TW starts offering them. We still have more mainstream HD than DirecTV right now. Where I live, FiOS won't be coming for years, so my only competition is sat and neither can compete pricewise with what I'm paying TW right now. However, Fios competition ANYWHERE in the market is good news, because it will help contain TW for the entire market.



Well, I for one am anxiously awaiting the fallout (good or bad) from the first SARA division that actually gets converted!

We in Greensboro were the first TWC Sara division to get converted to Navigator. Overall the transition went smooth as butter. The main problem is Navigator does a lot of things different and in my opinion a lot lot better than SARA. Once you master all the hidden features with Navigator I think you will really enjoy it. Read the Nanigator thread for tips to find all the features. More information there than on TWC answers on demand. If your version is stable as ours you will have very few problems.

User error my ***. I just recorded two show back to back on NCKHD. George Lopez at 10:30 recorded OK.

He's not funny ;)

Also, do you have SARA still? Maybe it's crappy SARA's fault haha. Either way that's unacceptable, but as much as I hate Navigator, it has done what it needed to do acceptably. Maybe your hard drive is dying? Get a new box.

Probably has a full hard drive and priorities set wrong. User Error.

So I tried another recording on NCKHD and it did the same thing. First show recorded fine, the second one went to the recording log as unavailable even though the recording light was on the entire time.

I also tried another recording on comedy hd. South Park recorded completely, the episode of Futurama right after only recorded 15 minutes out of 30.

Still gonna call that user error? :rolleyes:

I had a similar, but different thing happen to me. 2 back to back TCM movies, no entries in the log because it recorded about 1/2 the first one, and also "recorded" the second one, but at a zero length.

Clearly, total user error... the error being that I had faith they WOULD be recorded.

TWC San Diego is taking around 4 HD channels off of SDV. I guess they found them to be watched enough that they had to put them onto linear channels.
Which channels are moving off SDV? I know that Fox News HD (channel 737) is one of them.

My own research in division comparison is that TWC-Ohio is among the worst of all TWC areas. They are a mixture of SARA/Passport/Navigator potpourri! I also heard that their head manager is being replaced in there division because of customer complaints. Ohio has so many small and different sub-sets of head-ends with old, old, OLD wiring and technology and a service that SUCKS! Research that I have done supports ALL of Nick's frustrations with TWC-Ohio.

Here in TWC-Wisconsin, our services and support team are above average and in the twenty-five years that we have had cable, we have had maybe five service calls. I was so nervous about Navigator when we got it in Mid April 2008. TWC-Milwaukee was one of six test market cities and when they rolled it out in the Spring of 2007, it was such a POS, fielding customer complaints that they stopped it for about a year to do more testing.

We had the intermittent ten minute-twenty minute recording issues when SDV was rolled out here, but last night in maybe two years was the first that a recording stopped about 25 minutes in and did not pick up again. But we had tons of pixiation due to a massive snowstorm, which I reported on my local forum and the problem was corrected. In other words, it was due to the storm, not the box.

In contrast to Ohio, I have heard that the CSR's and service in the Carolina's are excellent. San Diego's TWC has a division that has a great president who actually listens to customers and responds to e-mails. There is such discretion concerning the quality and competence of each division. That's probably another reason why some guide systems may get little under the hood improvements on their boxes and others do not.

Jack

My division crushes satellite in everyway EXCEPT for the set top box & it's features.

I think you'd agree that's a pretty crucial element to come up in lacking.

I think you'd agree that's a pretty crucial element to come up in lacking.

For me it falls well below such things as PQ, number of HD channels, number of connections, no commitment and no need for a dish.

NC Subscribers Gain Access to Unprecedented Coverage

[Morrisville, NC] – [February 11, 2010] – Time Warner Cable Carolina Region, in cooperation /together with NBC Universal, today announced a multiplatform content offering for NBC Universal’s 2010 Vancouver Olympic Winter Games to commence with the Opening Ceremony on Friday, Feb. 12. Designed to deliver subscribers more than 835 hours of unprecedented Olympic Winter programming, it represents the most total hours ever for a Winter Olympics, and the most live hours ever for the Olympic Winter Games. Time Warner Cable will showcase advanced technology and rich content across multiple digital platforms, including HD, VOD and broadband. Vancouver will be the first Olympic Winter Games available entirely in high definition.

“We are really pleased to be offering our customers NBC’s extensive coverage of the 2010 Olympic Games,” said Christine Whitaker, vice president and general manager Raleigh. “Customers will be able to access this incredible content through several of our platforms, including high definition video, On Demand content and broadband coverage.”

Subscribers will stay connected to the Vancouver Olympic Winter Games wherever they go, and can expect extensive coverage on the networks of NBC Universal, including NBC, USA Network, MSNBC, CNBC, Universal HD and NBCOlympics.com. Following are multiplatform offerings that will allow Time Warner Cable customers to watch the Vancouver Olympic Winter Games, including HD, VOD and broadband services:

DIGITAL SERVICES OFFERINGS:

HD Coverage: For the first time, the Olympics will be available entirely in stunning HD, with HD coverage available on the networks of NBC Universal. Customers need not miss a minute of coverage, including every sport and event.

On Demand: NBC Universal is making gravity-defying highlights and full event rewinds available On Demand.

* Pre-Games: NBC Universal will offer more than 20, 5-7 minute clips available in SD and HD.
* In Games: NBCU will offer more than 100 highlight clips, approximately 15 per day, in addition to up to five full-length daily event replays. Additionally, NBCU will offer more than 30% of In-Games VOD in HD.

The 2010 Vancouver Olympic Winter Games will run throughout 17 unforgettable days and nights, covering every sport, medal, champion and riveting moment. For more information about NBC’s coverage of the 2010 Olympic Winter Games, visit www.nbcolympics.com. For more information about TWC’s products and services, visit www.yourtwc.com.

NBC, America’s Olympic Network, has broadcast 11 Olympic Games, the most Olympics broadcast by any network. NBC surpassed ABC’s 10 Olympics with the 2008 Beijing Games, the most watched event in U.S. television history with 215 million viewers. Vancouver will be NBC’s 12th Olympics. The 2010 Vancouver Games mark the sixth of an unprecedented seven consecutive Olympic broadcasts by NBC Sports, which began with the 2000 Sydney Games and continues through the 2012 London Games.

About Time Warner Cable

Time Warner Cable’s Carolina Region provides video, Internet and telephone services to more than 2.1 million residential and business customers in more than 400 cities and towns across North and South Carolina. Time Warner Cable is the second-largest cable operator in the U.S., with technologically advanced, well-clustered systems located in five geographic areas-New York State, the Carolinas, Ohio, southern California and Texas. Time Warner Cable serves more than 14 million customers who subscribe to one or more of its video, high-speed data and voice services. Time Warner Cable Business Class offers a suite of phone, Internet, Ethernet and cable television services to businesses of all sizes. Time Warner Cable Media sales, the advertising arm of Time Warner Cable, offers national, regional and local companies innovative advertising solutions that are targeted and affordable. More information about the services of Time Warner Cable is available at www.timewarnercable.com, www.twcbc.com, and www.twcmediasales.com.

Time Warner Cable
Melissa Buscher, (919) 654-4618, Melissa.buscher@twcable.com
NBC Universal TV Networks Distribution Media Contacts:
Alyssa Corcoran, (201) 735-3568, Alyssa.Corcoran@nbcuni.com
Nora Ellish, (201) 735-3618, Nora.Ellish@nbcuni.com

http://triangle.dbusinessnews.com/shownews.php?newsid=201175&type_news=latest

We in Greensboro were the first TWC Sara division to get converted to Navigator. Overall the transition went smooth as butter. The main problem is Navigator does a lot of things different and in my opinion a lot lot better than SARA. Once you master all the hidden features with Navigator I think you will really enjoy it. Read the Nanigator thread for tips to find all the features. More information there than on TWC answers on demand. If your version is stable as ours you will have very few problems.

Where is this Navigator thread? I typed in a search in HDTV Programming and came up with nothing.

I must be looking in the wrong place.

Stan: Hopefully you and others have. I may not know radio engineering, but I know business law.

I didn't really think that you should have learned a lesson from the arguments, ........... I was just pulling your leg.

Actually, it is clear that you have had the experience and training necessary to take advantage of people that shape arguments to support their feelings, desires or inadequately thought out views. That makes most of us sitting ducks.

He's not funny ;)

I didn't record it because it was funny, it was a test. :p I also recorded the Nanny, both shows were immediately deleted.

Also, do you have SARA still? Maybe it's crappy SARA's fault haha. Either way that's unacceptable, but as much as I hate Navigator, it has done what it needed to do acceptably. Maybe your hard drive is dying? Get a new box.

It's not SARA. SARA doesn't have problems like this, only TWC's inbred bastard child Navigator could have issues like this.

Not the box. It's a brand new 8300HDC I got in April of 2009. And it only happens on SDV channels. Regular channels work fine(like the local HD channels).

I'm afraid to even report the issue to TWC cuz that would be their answer. That's the answer to everything. :rolleyes:

Once you get a new 8300HDC you never let go of it. Especially now that I hear supposedly those Samsung boxes have oozed into the NE Ohio market. :eek:

Where is this Navigator thread? I typed in a search in HDTV Programming and came up with nothing.

I must be looking in the wrong place.

AVS FORUM NAVIGATOR enjoy

My own research in division comparison is that TWC-Ohio is among the worst of all TWC areas. They are a mixture of SARA/Passport/Navigator potpourri! I also heard that their head manager is being replaced in there division because of customer complaints. Ohio has so many small and different sub-sets of head-ends with old, old, OLD wiring and technology and a service that SUCKS! Research that I have done supports ALL of Nick's frustrations with TWC-Ohio.

Here in TWC-Wisconsin, our services and support team are above average and in the twenty-five years that we have had cable, we have had maybe five service calls. I was so nervous about Navigator when we got it in Mid April 2008. TWC-Milwaukee was one of six test market cities and when they rolled it out in the Spring of 2007, it was such a POS, fielding customer complaints that they stopped it for about a year to do more testing.

We had the intermittent ten minute-twenty minute recording issues when SDV was rolled out here, but last night in maybe two years was the first that a recording stopped about 25 minutes in and did not pick up again. But we had tons of pixiation due to a massive snowstorm, which I reported on my local forum and the problem was corrected. In other words, it was due to the storm, not the box.

In contrast to Ohio, I have heard that the CSR's and service in the Carolina's are excellent. San Diego's TWC has a division that has a great president who actually listens to customers and responds to e-mails. There is such discretion concerning the quality and competence of each division. That's probably another reason why some guide systems may get little under the hood improvements on their boxes and others do not.

Jack

I will give the Greensboro and Carolinas division an A in service. I had a very small service issue and the Division President himself called me to make sure it was taken care of properly. That what I call service. I think the Carolina division is the second or third largest division TWC has It's hq is in Charlotte but the local President managers have a lot of power..

I will give the Greensboro and Carolinas division an A in service. I had a very small service issue and the Division President himself called me to make sure it was taken care of properly. That what I call service. I think the Carolina division is the second or third largest division TWC has It's hq is in Charlotte but the local President managers have a lot of power..

I second that with Raleigh/Carolina's. Great folks... They helped me greatly with a long standing TiVo issue... Cost them a bunch of money in calls and it wasnt even their problem. Kudos....

My own research in division comparison is that TWC-Ohio is among the worst of all TWC areas. They are a mixture of SARA/Passport/Navigator potpourri! I also heard that their head manager is being replaced in there division because of customer complaints. Ohio has so many small and different sub-sets of head-ends with old, old, OLD wiring and technology and a service that SUCKS! Research that I have done supports ALL of Nick's frustrations with TWC-Ohio.
[/QUOTE]

Always nice to have my views vindicated and see that it's not just a few of us being difficult to please (although I admit I sometimes am ;) ). In our area we at least had Passport, but I think a reason for the sub-nets, at least for my hometown is we used to have a very local cable company (meaning it literally was a small township down the road from me) that ran things a while back until Time Warner bought them up. I imagine similar things happened throughout the area. Either way there's no excuse and it's ridiculous it took just this past year or so to actually get more then like 5 or so HD channels. Hope what you say is true about the new president.

It's not SARA. SARA doesn't have problems like this, only TWC's inbred bastard child Navigator could have issues like this.

Not the box. It's a brand new 8300HDC I got in April of 2009. And it only happens on SDV channels. Regular channels work fine(like the local HD channels).

I didn't mean to insult your intelligence or anything. Just that I haven't run into that issue and I thought DVRs were relatively self-sustaining. After all, they have a pretty easy job. But SDV is retarded so not surprised it appears to deal with that. Maybe you got bumped off the channel and it became "full"?

I can'y reliably recommend a TiVo to anyone. The past few days I've been getting a "this channel is temporarily unavailable" message. I figured it was SDV and capacity issues, but I walk to to the next room and TW's HD DVR tunes the channel (Cartoon NW HD) perfectly. Stupid tuning adapter, stupid, sdv, stupid tivo :(

A monopoly would be if a specific broadcaster was the only one allowed to broadcast in a specific market.And thank you for proving my point. That is EXACTLY what DMA restrictions do. You misunderstood what you read. If you have two channels you can tune in, then neither has a monopoly.

Game, Set, Match.If you misunderstand, then you haven't achieved anything. Let's try to keep the discussion a little less petty, anyway, okay?

Nope and this is one of my major beefs with Time Warner. They keep their customers in the dark. In my market, they won't tell us anything about what's coming soon either hardware or programming-wise.Look at it the other way: Let's say that they do promise something on a specific date... won't you rip into them if circumstances cause them to miss that date? Won't you keep score of how many times they miss promised dates? If the general public wasn't so vindictive about such things, then perhaps mass-market product and service providers would be more forth-coming with insights into their medium-term future plans.

Not Time Warner...Not any of them. The common denominator among all those who engage in such practices is their customers.

There is so much here that you don't understand.... I will try again to help you...Honestly, if there weren't a monopoly on cable service in my area, I would switch cable providers simply because of this HDNet issue.Again, no provider has a monopoly on subscription television service in your market. There is no requirement that any of them provide you any specific type of programming, nor is there any requirement that they all make their services practicable for you personally to receive and/or use the way you wish.

But there are no other options for cable service, which is why this whole monopoly discussion got started. Go figure. :rolleyes:There are other options for subscription television service in your market.

Anyways, I figure everybody offers the same lineup for most every channel I'm remotely interested in. Only TWC sees fit to have a hissy fit where HDNet is concerned.Incorrect. Comcast doesn't provide it in most areas, either. The common denominator isn't TWC -- it's Mark Cuban.

Shame on themShame on Mark Cuban.

and shame on the local governing authorities that grant these local monopolies (or "exclusive licensing agreements", to placate bicker1) that prevent competition from furnishing the usual price/fee mitigating influence that the free enterprise system is supposed to provide.First, again, federal law ensures that what you're claiming is the case actually is not the case. Please stop denying the existence of federal law against exclusive franchising agreements.

Actually, it is clear that you have had the experience and training necessary to take advantage of people that shape arguments to support their feelings, desires or inadequately thought out views. That makes most of us sitting ducks.It is true that I have a full career dealing with regulations and compliance, in the telecommunications industry, and that does indeed give me a stronger foundation on which to discuss such issues.

TW versus Cuban: why don't we argue Ford versus Chevy - nobody ever wins these arguments

Well, TWC finally gave us the HD Viacom channels yesterday.

TWC related. SW Ohio has released the Cisco 8640 DVRs. Unfortunately hdmi is glitchy. If you're like me and don't want your TV to blink out when changing from one channel to another, use the component outputs. The problem is with hdmi, setting the box to do only 1080, or 720 will last until the box is turned off. Once the tv goes off the box switches to 480p. I'm not sure what software version I have, but until they fix that, I'd say avoid hdmi on the cisco's.

Plus side is it does have a 320 gig hd.

Well that sucks! Hopefully this will be fix through a firmware update.

Anyone else noticing (at least in Dayton area) that all SD channels are now in VERY poor quality?

I wouldn't know since all the programming I watch is on the HD channels. But I'm sure it's just a Dayton thing.

Anyone else noticing (at least in Dayton area) that all SD channels are now in VERY poor quality?

You're just noticing that now? ;):D

yeah, I know, right?

I've just noticed it's now on EVERY channel ALL the time. Even my WIFE noticed... that's bad. It has definitely been incremental since I moved here a year ago.

ESPN used to be good, but it's all pixelated. The networks are fuzzy... terrible.

Our Cable SDV channels look fine here in SW Ohio (Cincinnati), so I think it's just your area bud.

I can'y reliably recommend a TiVo to anyone. The past few days I've been getting a "this channel is temporarily unavailable" message. I figured it was SDV and capacity issues, but I walk to to the next room and TW's HD DVR tunes the channel (Cartoon NW HD) perfectly. Stupid tuning adapter, stupid, sdv, stupid tivo :(

You need better cable... quad shield is the way to go... also if the cable passes by a refrigerator or other motors you could get interference... I had the same problem... try moving the cables around... if the problem goes away you need better cables... you could also have a bad connector or splitter... digital is a strange beast....

also could be a poor signal. Could be he simply needs a booster.

Apparently they have the rights for NatGeo Wild HD. It's listed as a new channel on the San Diego legal notice.

Edit: Fox Soccer Channel HD and Fox Soccer Plus HD have also been added.

Apparently they have the rights for NatGeo Wild HD. It's listed as a new channel on the San Diego legal notice.

Edit: Fox Soccer Channel HD and Fox Soccer Plus HD have also been added.

Well how the current trend is going I expect these to arrive in the NEO/WPA area a week or so after you San Diego folks get them

Aren't you guys in San Diego supposed to get the following HD channels too?

Lifetime
Sundance
Pentagon Channel
TVLand

Anyword on the holdup here and when does the legal notice say your getting the next fox channels?

Aren't you guys in San Diego supposed to get the following HD channels too?

Lifetime
Sundance
Pentagon Channel
TVLand

Anyword on the holdup here and when does the legal notice say your getting the next fox channels?

For real? That has to be an even bigger waste than one of those shopping channels in HD. At least QVC has HD programming. Not one thing on TV Land would be in actual HD. Let me guess, stretchovision?

For real? That has to be an even bigger waste than one of those shopping channels in HD. At least QVC has HD programming. Not one thing on TV Land would be in actual HD. Let me guess, stretchovision?

You're probably right nickdawg with regards to TV Land HD being a waste. With that said, it seems like the Viacom Networks do have a pretty good tendancy of keeping their programming in their original aspect ratio like the Disney Networks (eg:MTV's Jackass reruns or Unsolved Mysteries on Spike). At least when ABC Family does air Full House or other sitcoms from the 90's, they do not use stretch-o-vision. Just think though, in another 10 years, TV Land will have shows similar to Everybody Loves Raymond which in the last few seasons was shot in HD. I mean for goodness sake, TV Land is showing Home Improvement already. I remember when that show when it came out when I was 6 years old. I guess one of the points is, I can't believe a sitcom from my childhood is already on TV Land.:p

Aren't you guys in San Diego supposed to get the following HD channels too?

Lifetime
Sundance
Pentagon Channel
TVLand

Anyword on the holdup here and when does the legal notice say your getting the next fox channels?

They never tell us that at all.

Well how the current trend is going I expect these to arrive in the NEO/WPA area a week or so after you San Diego folks get them

Just be glad you're not in the TWC San Diego North County subdivision (ex-Adelphia). We only have 67 HD channels (including locals and premiums), while TWC San Diego proper has about 115 (not including the four Big 10 Network HD subchannels or HD on demand channels):mad:. In the end, I really don't care about having the same numbers as TWC San Diego proper. All I want is just 5 HD channels, Prime Ticket HD, MLB Network HD, GAME 1 HD, and GAME 2 HD and the mtn/the mtn HD (for people not in the know, the mtn is The Mountain West Conference channel, which has our local college team, San Diego State). Once those 5 appear, I'd be happy, and would stop complaning.

For real? That has to be an even bigger waste than one of those shopping channels in HD. At least QVC has HD programming. Not one thing on TV Land would be in actual HD. Let me guess, stretchovision?

TV Land is a sham!

Every since Larry Jones took over the network about 5-10 years ago. Once a great channel devoted to UNCUT classic TV sitcomes in the fall of 1996, with no commercials except the very cool look back at Classic Commercials called "Retromercials", they went to regular commercials around fall of 1997.

But up until around 2002, they still played classic TV shows, full screen, with some cuts, but not as bad as they do now! Larry Jones came in and TV Land became this Retro-Reality POS with shows like Home Makeover, Farah Faucet cheap produced crap. Classic sitcoms like The Odd Couple, Mr. Ed, Green Acres, Adam 12, Bewitched, The Bob Newhart Show, The Munsters, and The Addams Family, gone. About the only classics they have left are The Andy Griffith Show and Leave it to Beaver. But they are chopped up with more holes than swiss cheese!

A better station with less editing and no split-screen credits is Retro TV and Me-TV. They respect the classics! This TV (Network) also plays older movies and does not split-screen them! TV Land in HD because of the way its run now, is a waste of bandwidth! Now if This TV or ME-TV goes to HD, we might have something!

Jack

I didn't record it because it was funny, it was a test. :p I also recorded the Nanny, both shows were immediately deleted.



It's not SARA. SARA doesn't have problems like this, only TWC's inbred bastard child Navigator could have issues like this.

Not the box. It's a brand new 8300HDC I got in April of 2009. And it only happens on SDV channels. Regular channels work fine(like the local HD channels).

I'm afraid to even report the issue to TWC cuz that would be their answer. That's the answer to everything. :rolleyes:

Once you get a new 8300HDC you never let go of it. Especially now that I hear supposedly those Samsung boxes have oozed into the NE Ohio market. :eek:

LOL!!!! Yea, the answer to everything from TWC:

"Reboot your box" Every cure from mental illness to nail-biting can be solved by "Rebooting your box."

Angry and stressed out?

Cure all the problems of the Haiti Earthquake tragedy?

TWC: "You need to reboot the box!"

Customer: "I'm angry! Help!!!"

TWC: "Reboot your box!" (Which could actually just make you MORE ANGRY when it doesn't boot or the problem is still there!)

What a stupid marketing concept!

"The TWC Navigator Guide moves in four directions!" Yea, that's what customers really want.


No easy access to searching like Keyword Search
No Manual Recording
They don't even want a lot of HDTV stations!!!!


But yea!!!! WE WANT A GUIDE THAT MOVES IN FOUR DIRECTIONS!!! LOL!!!

Seriously, anyone on the forum could have come up with a better slogan than that!

STUPID CATCH LINE!!!

Jack

A question I've been wondering recently...is there any reason why Time Warner Cable - who once held ties to the famous HBO doesn't have HBO on Demand HD and more of the HBO channels in HD? It just completely baffles me.

Well, you answered part of your question partially: ... who once held ties to ..."Once held ties to..." == "No longer has ties to..." and therefore there is no foundation for an expectation that relations between the two entities will or will not be any more remarkable as compared to any other service provider and any other content provider.

New HD channels today in Milwaukee-Wisconsin

MTV HD-1250

Comody Central HD-1207

Spike HD- 1206

Bet HD- 1216

Nickelodeon HD- 1103

VH1-HD- 1252

CMT-HD-1254

I think we now have about 100 HD stations!

Jack

New HD channels today in Milwaukee-Wisconsin

MTV HD-1250

Comody Central HD-1207

Spike HD- 1206

Bet HD- 1216

Nickelodeon HD- 1103

VH1-HD- 1252

CMT-HD-1254

I think we now have about 100 HD stations!

Jack

Let me guess, the analog versions of those channels are:

MTV 250
Comedy Central 207
Spike 206
BET 216
Nickelodeon 103
VH1 252
CMT 254

You must have the 'over 100 channel realignment' and 'tv made easy'. ;)

Let me guess, the analog versions of those channels are:

MTV 250
Comedy Central 207
Spike 206
BET 216
Nickelodeon 103
VH1 252
CMT 254

You must have the 'over 100 channel realignment' and 'tv made easy'. ;)

LOL!!!

Nick is PSYCHIC!!!! Hahaha!

No, I know that maybe with a couple of exceptions, with Nick in Ohio and me in Wisconsin we have the same line up called "TV Made Easy." (add the one to find the HD channel number.)

Jack

LOL!!!

Nick is PSYCHIC!!!! Hahaha!

No, I know that maybe with a couple of exceptions, with Nick in Ohio and me in Wisconsin we have the same line up called "TV Made Easy." (add the one to find the HD channel number.)

Jack

Isn't it kind of annoying pressing an extra digit?

Isn't it kind of annoying pressing an extra digit?

Hey, don't complain. Here is Austin the formula is:

(<channel>-2)*10+1501

That is only for broadcast, cable channels are random numbers in the 1600s, sometimes also assigned in the 100s,200s,300s,400s. In short - it is horrible.

xnappo

You guys are right.

TVLand used to be great and now it is crap. It used to be special if a show was on TVLand and when Just Shoot Me got on their air, it was the end for me.

In addition, they are not going to have any HD programming making an HD version a waste other than it being in the HD channels numbers. That would only be worth it if I actually watched it.

They need to get better programming back like Batman, Charlie's Angels, the Fugitive and shows like that.

Until they do, screw them.

hdtvfan2005: If you find out anything on those, let us know as I am a Bright House customer and they piggyback on TWC's deals. Once something becomes available on a TWC system, it does for us as well like the Viacom HD Suite which quickly has penetrated our systems.

Isn't it kind of annoying pressing an extra digit?

It's even more annoying that these idiots say it's "easier" to find channels by adding a 1 to the SD version. First of all, it's easier to leave the HD channels where they are, on established channel numbers.

Second, how the eff do I know what the SD channel # is? I watch the HD channel.

Third, they did that stupid realignment thing here two years ago. I don't use those stupid three digit numbers, I kept watching the analog channels on their old numbers. So for me Cartoon Network is channel 66, MSNBC is 37, CNN is 34 and USA is 60.

So for me that "add a 1" formula would mean Cartoon network is 166, MNSBC is 137, CNN is 134 and USA is 160. ;):rolleyes:

Plus they're freaking out the old people. There was an artical in the paper about this and my grandma called me frantically asking if she would now have to "push 1404 to get CBS". They're confusing people who don't even have HD!!

People still punch numbers to change channels? :confused:

People still punch numbers to change channels? :confused:

Ya, they haven't perfected the mind controlled brainchip yet. :rolleyes:

That's so last century. I just punch an icon.

That's so last century. I just punch an icon.

My TiVo does all the tuning....

That's so last century. I just punch an icon.

:confused::confused::confused:

You must not have TWC then...

Wow do I really have to spell it out? :eek:

:confused::confused::confused:

You must not have TWC then...

or he has a universal remote (like the Harmony One perhaps)

We have a winner!

Oh, I have a Scientific Atlanta. It controls my DVD player and TV. ;):D

Oh, I have a Scientific Atlanta. It controls my DVD player and TV. ;):D


Good for you.... I still stand up, go to the TV, then turn the dial for my favorite channel... hehehehe;)

TWC San Diego is moving Speed SD to CH. 93 while the HD feed will stay at 793. Both Channels require a digital cable box or a Cablecard with a TA in order to view it.

TWC San Diego is moving Speed SD to CH. 93 while the HD feed will stay at 793. Both Channels require a digital cable box or a Cablecard with a TA in order to view it.

TWC NYC announced on Friday that Speed would move from Digital to Standard (but not moving its channel location - they currently have things all screwy lately)

Good for you.... I still stand up, go to the TV, then turn the dial for my favorite channel... hehehehe;)

turn top dial to UHF, bottom dial to channel:D

People still punch numbers to change channels? :confused:

When you have over 100 HD channels, and they are 3 digits, yes. It's a lot quicker than looking for an icon.

When you have over 100 HD channels, and they are 3 digits, yes. It's a lot quicker than looking for an icon.

I would think it depends a lot on your viewing habits. I think most people have a core group of two icon screens worth of channels they frequent. No need to memorize many channel numbers.

TWC San Diego is moving Speed SD to CH. 93 while the HD feed will stay at 793. Both Channels require a digital cable box or a Cablecard with a TA in order to view it.

Darn it! That's one less channel I was getting for "free" that I wasn't paying paying for. For whatever reason we've been getting Speed HD, even though we don't subscribe to the Sports Tier that Speed SD/Speed HD is in (all we subscribe to is Expanded Basic+Choice Pack with 2 Motorola DCX 3400 DVRs). That's one less channel I've felt like I've been getting away with something.:D

Location: TWC San Diego North County (ex-Adelphia)

Maybe you have the Variety Pack???

Variety Pack includes SPEED, along with Oxygen, Style, ScienceChan, MilitaryChan and a whole lot more.....
whereas Choice Pack is only 24 digital channels, incl. Fine Living, NationalGeographic, Ovation.....

Darn it! That's one less channel I was getting for "free" that I wasn't paying paying for. For whatever reason we've been getting Speed HD, even though we don't subscribe to the Sports Tier that Speed SD/Speed HD is in (all we subscribe to is Expanded Basic+Choice Pack with 2 Motorola DCX 3400 DVRs). That's one less channel I've felt like I've been getting away with something.:D

Location: TWC San Diego North County (ex-Adelphia)

speed isn't in the sports pak in most (if not all) areas

Darn it! That's one less channel I was getting for "free" that I wasn't paying paying for. For whatever reason we've been getting Speed HD, even though we don't subscribe to the Sports Tier that Speed SD/Speed HD is in (all we subscribe to is Expanded Basic+Choice Pack with 2 Motorola DCX 3400 DVRs). That's one less channel I've felt like I've been getting away with something.:D

Location: TWC San Diego North County (ex-Adelphia)

I don't know if this matters or not, but for those of us out there with Clear QAM DVR's(I have a Phillips 160GB HDD/DVD Recorder-burner), make sure you run a brand new channel scan after these changes take place, as the channels you record off of(digital ones) may not be located on the same digital channel that you are currently using.

They sometimes move them sporadically anyway, but with this new type of lineup, they may most definitely move somewhere else according to your DVR.

So if you are trying to create a library of this years LOST/The Office/Smallville/etc...(like me), just be wary, and after the change make sure the channels you are recording from are still the same ones you will need.

It would not surprise me if they move, especially here in NW Pennsylvania.

Maybe you have the Variety Pack???

Variety Pack includes SPEED, along with Oxygen, Style, ScienceChan, MilitaryChan and a whole lot more.....
whereas Choice Pack is only 24 digital channels, incl. Fine Living, NationalGeographic, Ovation.....

A lot of packs have changed over the years. In some cases, you have the pack, it gets changed, but you get 'grandfathered in' so no programming losses occur. I've been HD with TWC San Diego since 2003 and a lot has changed over the years, but I've never really lost any channels.

Actually Speed is in the Sports Pack and Variety Pack here in San Diego (until it moves into expanded basic tier as hdtvfan2005 pointed out) according to twcsd.com. I know we only subscribe to the Choice Pack, because my parents like EWTN. Oddly enough, we're getting MLB Network, Fox Business Network HD, CBS College Sports HD, ESPNEWS HD, Hallmark Channel, Hallmark Movie Channel (HMC HD as well), DIY, and Science Channel HD. All those channels I just mentioned are in tiers we don't subscribe in, and oddly enough they still haven't turned off the free preview of the MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice channels since the start of the 2008/2009 NHL season (and I'm not complaining, becasue I am a big sports fan). I just find it odd that TWC would let those channels go through to people who don't subscribe to it. I can only wonder if there is some sort of glitch in the system and the meeting of Bobs have yet to have find the glitch. I still wonder if it has something to do with the former Adelphia infrastructure. As I said, it's not a complaint, just an interesting observation on my part.

NYC doesn't have this choice/variety nonsense...

just Basic, Standard, and D(igital)TV (along with the movie premiums and the extra little things like the "digital sports package" and HD Xtra)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/50/Content%20Management/Documents/Learn/CLUs_0110_Manhattan.pdf

Speed moving to Expanded Basic is likely a management thing.

Fsc hd? Fsc + hd?

Anyone else noticing (at least in Dayton area) that all SD channels are now in VERY poor quality?

I wouldn't know since all the programming I watch is on the HD channels. But I'm sure it's just a Dayton thing.

yeah, I know, right?

I've just noticed it's now on EVERY channel ALL the time. Even my WIFE noticed... that's bad. It has definitely been incremental since I moved here a year ago.

ESPN used to be good, but it's all pixelated. The networks are fuzzy... terrible.

I picked up the Cisco 8640 yesterday (Friday), Monday it's going back.

My screen looks like I have a filter on it, picture is soft, Jaggies, pixelated beyond belief, lacks punch and color.

HH

More HD news from TWC Southwest Ohio div.

In addition, from time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:
Move Style and Great American Country to Digital Basic Tier; move Teen Nick and Nick Toons to Digital Basic Tier; on Standard Service, Disney moves from 70 to 61; drop Fox Reality; move Game Show Network to the Digital Variety Tier; Speed becomes available to standard tier customers with a converter. Content from Action Movies on Demand, Comedy Movies on Demand & Drama Movies on Demand will merge into other channels, these will be removed. Classic Movies on Demand will change name to Favorite Movies on Demand.


The new service(s) listed below cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment:
CBS College Sports HD, Fuse HD, Tennis Channel HD, NHL Network HD, IFC HD, QVC HD, HSN HD, HBO2 HD, HBO Family HD, Sho TOO HD, MoreMax HD, Action Max HD, TMC HD, Encore HD, Hallmark HD, Fox Soccer Plus, National Geographic Wild, Flix


Finally, we are currently involved in discussions regarding the services and/or stations listed below. While we cannot guarantee that we will reach agreement with the relevant programmers and/or broadcasters, we are listing these services/stations here in the event that we are able to start carrying them in the future:
National Geographic Wild to Digital Variety Tier, Fox Soccer Plus to the Sports Tier; CBS College Sports HD, Fuse HD, Tennis Channel HD, NHL Network HD, IFC HD, QVC HD, HSN HD, HBO2 HD, HBO Family HD, Sho TOO HD, MoreMax HD, Action Max HD, TMC HD, Encore HD,Hallmark HD, Flix

Posted 2/26/10

So that means Speed is moving from it's current 317?

http://mysa.kaango.com/feViewAd/16266116

:eek::eek:

NASA TV HD is being added to channel 376 in SAN ANTONIO.

sometime within the last week Time Warner Milw added VH1 HD MTV HD and comedy central HD,,

they could have added more that i didnt see, but scrolling through my list i noticed vh1 and mtv, been waiting for them forever to add these channels.

now all i need to be satisfied is bet hd and oxygen hd..

i remember about a year ago they hardly had any HD channels, it took them a swift kick in the behind to get on the bandwagon, i heard a story that the ppl running time warner didnt even have HDtvs in there own homes lol...

anyone know a thread or any specfic info to time warner cable in milw,wi??

any receiver threads from this area? would love to get the samsung HD box...

anyone know a thread or any specfic info to time warner cable in milw,wi??
Here's the Milwaukee topic: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=463747&page=12

Time Warner Cable COO:We Can Raise Prices For Internet Service

By Nat Worden
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Time Warner Cable Inc. (TWC)'s chief operating officer said Monday that broadband Internet service has replaced cable TV service as its "anchor product," and the company has the ability to raise prices for it.
"Consumers like it so much that we have the ability to increase pricing around high-speed data," said Landel Hobbes at an investor conference in San Francisco.
He said Time Warner Cable can continue to take market share in broadband from DSL competitors and expand its revenue even if the cable TV business continues to slow.
-By Nat Worden, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2472; nat.worden@dowjones.com

So that means Speed is moving from it's current 317?

No it means it's no longer part of the sports tier or digital cable only package. I think if you have the converter the channel will remain the same.

ah, just referring to the lineup-package it's in. Got it.

Here's a link to Milwaukee-HDTV forums,

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/index.php

I am an active member over there as Jack 1000 and am pretty involved with the TWC stuff. Check out the corresponding threads for information. I do my best to post regularly about new HD channels, test channels, and Navigator updates. (Of course I get almost all Navigator updates from THIS forum! LOL!)

Jack

Time Warner toys with raising Internet prices
March 2nd, 2010, 1:40 pm
by Tamara Chuang, a.k.a. The Gadgetress

Spotted: Dow Jones news services picked up on an interesting sentence muttered by Time Warner Cable’s chief operating officer Landel Hobbes during an investor conference on Monday: Broadband Internet has replaced cable TV as the company’s “anchor product” so if TV service continues to slow, Time Warner can just raise Internet prices.

Reporter Nat Worden writes just a few paragraphs, enough to give us a glimpse into the future of cable bills.

“Consumers like it so much that we have the ability to increase pricing around high-speed data,” Hobbes said.

** Webcast: Listen to what Hobbes said **http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/confRegistration.zhtml?ticker=TWC&item_id=ew,2749991,1,207717,966321,1445594,2

While that’s discouraging news for anyone on a budget, it makes financial sense for Time Warner especially as more consumers cut cable and instead watch TV shows online for free. But this still means you need a fast Internet connection.

I listened to what Hobbes said and he went on to talk about what customers can expect from Time Warner this year: Access to TV shows online via “TV Everywhere,” and the long-rumored multi-room DVRs and features like “Start Over” and “Look Back” to allow viewers to watch TV shows they missed or forgot to record.

Hobbes also said DOCSIS 3.0, which offers faster Internet speeds of 50 down and 5 up, will be coming to more cities this year, possibly targeting markets where Verizon FiOS also offers fast service. Time Warner launched its faster Internet for around $99 in New York City, where it goes head to head with FiOS and is rumored to be targeting Texas, Ohio and upstate New York next.

That gives us hope here in Orange County for those wanting faster service and are willing to pay for it but can’t order FiOS. Faster Internet is apparently what the bulk of new Time Warner customers want. During the investor conference, Hobbes said that 70 percent of new customers opt for Turbo Internet speeds, currently at 15 mbps downstream and 2 mbps up. Comparably, FiOS offers up to 50 mbps down and 35 mbps up.

Speaking of FiOS, Time Warner considers it to be its chief rival. While AT&T U-verse does offer TV service and Internet, Hobbes remarked that U-verse service is, well, “I’d say not as good as mine.”

Time Warner is also getting ready for another big push in Verizon FiOS territory. Customers who ditched cable for FiOS are now getting to the end of 1-to-2-year contracts with Verizon, which launched FiOS in Orange County in 2007. Hobbes believes Time Warner has a good chance at winning them back.

“Typically when we lost customers to FiOS the first time … it’s because we’ve done something from a customer service perspective that made them upset, not happy with us and that’s why they leave,” he said. “From our research, we’re seeing that if there’s any part of the product set that they (Verizon) are struggling with it’s scaling the care model. That’s the reason why we think we’re going to be successful in the winback situation… We’ve got databases to track those customers. We’ve really been focusing on our care model and improving it.”

Further down the road, Time Warner plans to expand its wireless data access so broadband customers can access mobile RoadRunner Internet service on the road. The company launched the service in North Carolina and Dallas in December and is now in 8 cities, he said.

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2010/03/02/time-warner-toys-with-hiking-internet-prices-plans-faster-internet/37165/

He MIGHT have been thinking:
"We'll be earning more with the upcoming, much higher speed, PREMIUM I-N services"....

He MIGHT have been thinking:
"We'll be earning more with the upcoming, much higher speed, PREMIUM I-N services"....

I can see TWC dallas have a lot of people switch to DOCSIS 3.0 as it has been stated by a TWC dallas represnative that Dallas has a high rate of turbo subscribers a few years ago.

Looks like former Adelphia subs here in southwest Ohio are finally getting upgraded. They came and replaced our Motorola boxes with the Cisco ones, and I got a letter in the mail yesterday stating that anyone with the Motorola boxes will be unable to use them after March 29th. The letter also stated something to the effect that the old Adelphia system will match Cincinnati's channel lineup and services by the end of April.

Well here is to hoping for more HD channels.

What Cisco boxes are they deploying?

What Cisco boxes are they deploying?

I was wrong sorta, it is Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. I said Cisco, because when I was googling that box, it came under Cisco since they own SA now.

Sorry about that...

I was wrong sorta, it is Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. I said Cisco, because when I was googling that box, it came under Cisco since they own SA now.

Sorry about that...

I'm in Maineville on the Amelia, OH headend. They sent me an SA 8300HDC and its running ODN 3.1.3_3. I haven't received any letter yet, but those dates sound encouraging.

I can't believe that TWC is swapping out old hardware with OLD HARDWARE! It's sounds like they are revamping the system from the ground up yet they give you hardware that is past it's service life with graphical limitations and a minuscule hard drive. I guess I can't say I'm surprised, but I would have figured that you'd get at least newer 8600 series boxes.

Are these "new" or do they appear to be recycled from other divisions? (IE: all scratched up, etc.) I know our division at one point was dumping SA8000's on people!

Time Warner Cable To Change 'Free HD' Claim After AT&T Complaint

Council Of Better Business Bureaus Says High-Def Service Can No Longer Be Considered ‘Free'

Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 3/4/2010 6:16:17 PM

Time Warner Cable said it will "curtail" the use of the word "free" in advertising its HD service and stopped running ads claiming that AT&T requires U-verse customers to sign long-term contracts, following the telco's complaint to the Council of Better Business Bureaus.

The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus recommended that Time Warner Cable discontinue claims to offer "free HD" service. The NAD said the cable company has been promoting "free HD" for nearly two years and that what had been the discounted price has become the actual price for the entire purchase of both its regular service and HDTV -- and as such, HD can no longer be considered "free."

In a statement, the No. 2 cable operator said, "in the spirit of industry self-regulation and consistent with NAD's recommendations, TWC will revise its advertising to curtail use of the word ‘free' and take NAD's recommendations into consideration in future advertising."

AT&T had objected to a TWC ad featuring a character named "Ed" portraying a U-verse TV customer who has declined to take advantage of TWC's "free HDTV."

The character in the TV spot said, "Sure, U-verse hits me up with an HD surcharge every month but, no big deal, I've found ways to make extra cash... ."

One version of the TWC ad included the message "Don't Be Ed ...Don't Accept HD Surcharges" and other versions ended with the message, "Don't Accept Less. Get Digital Cable with Free HD [from Time Warner Cable]."
AT&T charges $10 per month for HD channels for all programming tiers except for the top U450 programming package with 360 channels.

Another TWC spot said that AT&T "plays ‘dirty ball' ... they say they give you fast Internet, but it's not as fast as Road Runner High-Speed Online" and that "Then they make you sign a long-term contract." However, NAD said the claim that AT&T's service requires that customers sign a long-term contract "was unsupported and appreciated the advertiser's voluntary discontinuance of this claim."

Finally, AT&T took issue with the cable operator's spots asserting that the simultaneous use of U-verse Internet service and HDTV results in a "collision" of signals, causing Internet service to "slow down significantly."

TWC backed up those claims by pointing to AT&T's terms of service, which state: "In order to provide a consistently high-quality video service, AT&T U-verse high speed Internet throughput speeds may be temporarily reduced when a customer is using other U-verse services in a manner that requires high bandwidth. This could occur more often with higher-speed Internet access products."

NAD rejected that argument, noting in its decision that the AT&T TOS also states: "In order to enhance reliability and consistency of performance, some broadband access lines may be provisioned at less than maximum speed capability but within the range of speed purchased."

In addition, NAD said AT&T's evidence demonstrated no degradation of Internet speeds for 96.5% of all U-verse customers viewing one HDTV; no degradation of Internet speeds for 92% of its U-verse customers viewing two HDTVs; and no decrease in average streaming speed during a YouTube test for any U-verse customers. NAD therefore recommended TWC discontinue the ad claims that simultaneous use of U-verse HDTV and Internet service typically causes the latter to stop or significantly slow down.

TWC said it "appreciates NAD's thorough review of its advertising claims" and will "take into consideration NAD's suggestions in all future advertising."

http://www.multichannel.com/article/449728-Time_Warner_Cable_To_Change_Free_HD_Claim_After_AT_T_Complai nt.php

They changed it a while ago around here. They now refer to it as "No Fee HD".

However, everyone knows the "fee" is basically lumped into you bill, they just don't itemize it as a line charge.

Are these "new" or do they appear to be recycled from other divisions? (IE: all scratched up, etc.) I know our division at one point was dumping SA8000's on people!

This one came out of a box and was all wrapped up and even had the thin plastic covering the clock area that had to be peeled off.

It was either new or refurbished. It looks new and I can see no scratches or wear and tear on it.

Interesting, but I can't see why they would be issuing out of date hardware if they we getting theses new unless Cisco gave them a killer deal on them. I shouldn't be surprised that TW is deploying hardware that is two generation old though. Cisco is up to the 8640HDC right now and has been deploying new boxes by Samsung as well. That stated, some people report issues with the Samsungs running Navigator.

My take is that they should be looking at more current gen hardware and getting that to work with Navigator. A last generation set top the only has a 160GB Hard Drive in the era of 100+ HD channels just isn't going to cut it. If you record a lot, I hope you get a box that has eSata working.

Interesting, but I can't see why they would be issuing out of date hardware if they we getting theses new unless Cisco gave them a killer deal on them. I shouldn't be surprised that TW is deploying hardware that is two generation old though. Cisco is up to the 8640HDC right now and has been deploying new boxes by Samsung as well. That stated, some people report issues with the Samsungs running Navigator.

My take is that they should be looking at more current gen hardware and getting that to work with Navigator. A last generation set top the only has a 160GB Hard Drive in the era of 100+ HD channels just isn't going to cut it. If you record a lot, I hope you get a box that has eSata working.

I would be interested to know which DVR's TWC deploys system-wide have working eSATA ports...? I know none of them have working 1394 (firewire) ports anymore, which has turned my D-VHS tape deck into a door-stop.

Frankly, one of the only reasons I'm still with TWC, along with cable broadband, is that my SA8300HD supports eSATA so I can add a massive expansion drive, alleviating the problem caused by that woefully inadequate 160GB internal drive. But I don't believe the HDC boxes do.

Agreed. My 8300HD has been running my 1TB expansion drive flawlessly. If they break that function when we get Navigator, then it will become worthless to me. Just about every DVR I've seen including what TWC offers has an eSata port on it.

What I don't get is why TWC won't look at Echostar (ok, I get why they won't, but that's spite) or even Moxi as 3rd party vendors. I'd love to get a Moxi DVR, but lack of VOD/PPV is a killer.

Agreed. My 8300HD has been running my 1TB expansion drive flawlessly. If they break that function when we get Navigator, then it will become worthless to me. Just about every DVR I've seen including what TWC offers has an eSata port on it.

What I don't get is why TWC won't look at Echostar (ok, I get why they won't, but that's spite) or even Moxi as 3rd party vendors. I'd love to get a Moxi DVR, but lack of VOD/PPV is a killer.

The version of Navigator that runs on the HD boxes (MDN?) supports eSATA.

Where TWC went horribly wrong was in not letting Aptiv (the Passport people) develop and implement their next generation of STB software, foolishly trying to pull it in house to, presumably, save a few sheckles. Their customers have been paying the price since. Not that they care...

They have nearly phased out the old Motorola boxes here, but I need one because I capture some channels off of s-video, and the new Samsung boxes don't have s-video. I had to replace one because it kept going to black screens until I cycled the power, and they only had two of the Motorolas in the shop.

Any chance TWC will bring back HD Net and HD Net movies?

Any chance TWC will bring back HD Net and HD Net movies?

As soon as TWC switches to an all digital system with no more analog channels. ;):rolleyes:

Any chance TWC will bring back HD Net and HD Net movies?

When Cuban backs down from his demands - since TWC doesn't feel they are losing out on much (and.. as of now... they really aren't)

When Cuban backs down from his demands - since TWC doesn't feel they are losing out on much (and.. as of now... they really aren't)

TWC may not be missing much BUT I as a customer am.

TWC may not be missing much BUT I as a customer am.

And you are among a very very small minority.

And you are among a very very small minority.

Then I am a member of that minority too....

In that case, I hope it doesn't come back. I never want to see Cuban 'submit' to TWC, I'd rather keep doing without it. Programmers shouldn't give into the demands of TWC. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of FOX or News Corp, I applaud them as well as Viacom for making real threats to pull their programming before submitting to TWC's demands.

It goes to show who really "gets tough" and who "rolls over". ;)

I hope it doesn't come back. I never want to see Cuban 'submit' to TWC, I'd rather keep doing without it.

Just pitiful, if not an exaggeration. :confused:

And ridiculous IMHO given that comparing HDNet to Fox seem to me to be like comparing Neil Gaiman to Toni Morrison.

I would be interested to know which DVR's TWC deploys system-wide have working eSATA ports...? I know none of them have working 1394 (firewire) ports anymore, which has turned my D-VHS tape deck into a door-stop.

Frankly, one of the only reasons I'm still with TWC, along with cable broadband, is that my SA8300HD supports eSATA so I can add a massive expansion drive, alleviating the problem caused by that woefully inadequate 160GB internal drive. But I don't believe the HDC boxes do.
My 8300HD, running MDN, works very reliably with my eSATA drive.

I use a 8240HDC, running ODN, for a WORKING IEEE-1394 Firewire I/F to my D-VHS Recorder.
Before the box died, I was using the old 3250HD.

Are these "new" or do they appear to be recycled from other divisions? (IE: all scratched up, etc.) I know our division at one point was dumping SA8000's on people!

The 8300HDC I got looks used but in very good condition; the mfg date is Jan 2008. The box it swapped out is a Moto DCH 6416, which has analog and digital tuners. I dont think our headend has digital simulcast of the expanded basic channels.

You sure there isn't firewire active on all HD DVRs? TW said they are and that to use it, you need to unplug HDMI if it's being used and restart the box. Then all other ports should be active.

My 8300HD, running MDN, works very reliably with my eSATA drive.

I use a 8240HDC, running ODN, for a WORKING IEEE-1394 Firewire I/F to my D-VHS Recorder.
Before the box died, I was using the old 3250HD.

Interesting. I was using the 3250HD for firewire when it stopped working in, I believe, August of '05 or '06. I complained, but my pleas were never taken seriously by my local TWC office. To my knowledge, you haven't been able to get a working 1394 handshake on any of their STB's since then. Yours is the first I've heard of. The firewire ports have never worked on any of their SA8*** series DVR's, as far as I know.

I really don't "need" it anymore since I have nearly a terabyte of storage with my expansion drive, but it would save me buying blu-rays of the few movies I'd like to have permanently (balanced out against the monthly fee for another STB, of course). I might get one and give it a try. Is it stable? What D-VHS deck are you using?

Interesting. I was using the 3250HD for firewire when it stopped working in, I believe, August of '05 or '06. I complained, but my pleas were never taken seriously by my local TWC office. To my knowledge, you haven't been able to get a working 1394 handshake on any of their STB's since then. Yours is the first I've heard of. The firewire ports have never worked on any of their SA8*** series DVR's, as far as I know.

Did you try taking out the HDMI cable and unplugging/plugging back in the box with HDMI disconnected?

The 8300HDC I got looks used but in very good condition; the mfg date is Jan 2008. The box it swapped out is a Moto DCH 6416, which has analog and digital tuners. I dont think our headend has digital simulcast of the expanded basic channels.

they actually waited to swapout after the m-card mandate that is interesting.

I wonder if the remaining motorola systems that dont have digital simulcast are getting your areas used but working and dont have problems

Since dallas got dch3416s and then the dcx3432s i dont think they are swapping boxes as they have about 425,000 subscribers and they are launching sdv now and they are not making us swap boxes they are going to use iguide with bigband sdv. since your in cinci they probrably are going to use the cisco sdv platform and they dont want redundant box types and they are making the whole market cisco instead of pockets of motorola and the rest cisco.

Did you try taking out the HDMI cable and unplugging/plugging back in the box with HDMI disconnected?

Don't use HDMI. I've always just used my TV as a monitor and run the sound from the STB directly into an A/V receiver. This whole HDMI thing sort of baffles me; why would anyone who has an HT setup bother with it and the problems it seems to cause?

Don't use HDMI. I've always just used my TV as a monitor and run the sound from the STB directly into an A/V receiver. This whole HDMI thing sort of baffles me; why would anyone who has an HT setup bother with it and the problems it seems to cause?

I like the idea of HDMI and it's all in one idea, but one thing cripples it and that HDCP. I've had numerous issue with resolution switching and handshake problems to the point where I just use component and optical audio from my cable set top.

Interesting. I was using the 3250HD for firewire when it stopped working in, I believe, August of '05 or '06. I complained, but my pleas were never taken seriously by my local TWC office. To my knowledge, you haven't been able to get a working 1394 handshake on any of their STB's since then. Yours is the first I've heard of. The firewire ports have never worked on any of their SA8*** series DVR's, as far as I know.

I really don't "need" it anymore since I have nearly a terabyte of storage with my expansion drive, but it would save me buying blu-rays of the few movies I'd like to have permanently (balanced out against the monthly fee for another STB, of course). I might get one and give it a try. Is it stable? What D-VHS deck are you using?
Depends on how you define "Stable".....
Since I don't use it very often, I usually have to reboot the 4250HDC cuz it
has gone out to lunch.....and once in a while my JVC HMDH40000U D-VHS also
has to have the power cord unplugged & replugged to reset a hung Firewire I/F.
But after I finally get the HD program to pass through the D-VHS to my HDTV, it's good to go.....
I don't think there are any more glitches than are "normal" for TWC's HD channels....

Sometimes you'll see reports of what works to D-VHS. And D-VHS should also work
for ALL channels (except PPV/OnDemand) if a PC can record Clear QAM HD channels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593271&page=16

FWIW: Here is the thread for PC/Mac Firewire I/F users (clear QAM only):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=177

I tried up to 10 motorola boxes when I moved to TWC here in Ohio from Pennsylvania where Comcast had all Firewire ports working (So I know how to make it work). Not a single box worked. Their defense was that the manufacturer must be disabling them; with a feigned-unknowing shrug, like it was out of their control. I even "special ordered" twice for a working port.

Following the trend of some other divisions, Charlotte is to get a complete channel lineup overhaul (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/144/Content%20Management/Documents/CDL/Charlotte.pdf) as of March 30th.

An overhaul was well overdue, but... to do such a complete revamp and not put the broadcast channels onto something that relates to their broadcast channel (e.g., WBTV(3) = 103SD/1103HD; WSOC(9) = 109SD/1109HD; WCCB(18) = 118SD/1118HD; etc) seems like a huge oversight. These assignments seem like they were pulled out of a hat (or someplace darker and warmer:rolleyes:).

I also think at this point in time the HD/SD assignments should have been reversed... make the SD holdouts key in the extra number.

Following the trend of some other divisions, Charlotte is to get a complete channel lineup overhaul (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/144/Content%20Management/Documents/CDL/Charlotte.pdf) as of March 30th.

An overhaul was well overdue, but... to do such a complete revamp and not put the broadcast channels onto something that relates to their broadcast channel (e.g., WBTV(3) = 103SD/1103HD; WSOC(9) = 109SD/1109HD; WCCB(18) = 118SD/1118HD; etc) seems like a huge oversight. These assignments seem like they were pulled out of a hat (or someplace darker and warmer:rolleyes:).

I also think at this point in time the HD/SD assignments should have been reversed... make the SD holdouts key in the extra number.

They're just as stupid in NE Ohio as well. They're making HD CBS here channel 1004, to follow the effed up analog lineup. What they really shoud do is put it on 1019, the actual channel(since CBS is 19-1 OTA here). Just like CW55 should be 1055(instead of 1007) and WVIZ PBS should be 1025(instead of 1002).

I hate, hate, hate this new lineup-and it hasn't even happened yet. It is NOT easier to "just add a 1" as their commercials say. I saw one last night that said: "right now ESPN is channel 301, just add a 1 for espn HD". No, ESPN is not 301. ESPNHD is channel 430 and has been for over two years. Nobody with a HDTV watches ESPN on 301. That's not making it easier for us!!:rolleyes: And most people I know with SDTV only boxes don't even use the 'over 100' versions. ESPN is the same analog channel its always been here.

They're just as stupid in NE Ohio as well. They're making HD CBS here channel 1004, to follow the effed up analog lineup. What they really shoud do is put it on 1019, the actual channel(since CBS is 19-1 OTA here). Just like CW55 should be 1055(instead of 1007) and WVIZ PBS should be 1025(instead of 1002).

I hate, hate, hate this new lineup-and it hasn't even happened yet. It is NOT easier to "just add a 1" as their commercials say. I saw one last night that said: "right now ESPN is channel 301, just add a 1 for espn HD". No, ESPN is not 301. ESPNHD is channel 430 and has been for over two years. Nobody with a HDTV watches ESPN on 301. That's not making it easier for us!!:rolleyes: And most people I know with SDTV only boxes don't even use the 'over 100' versions. ESPN is the same analog channel its always been here.

It would have at least made SOME sense if they HAD followed the analog lineup for the broadcasts... what they did relates to nothing at all... not the analog, old digital or broadcast assignments. Where these came from just seems off the wall... the division president's favorite lottery numbers, maybe?

FWIW: Here is the thread for PC/Mac Firewire I/F users (clear QAM only):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=177

Oh wow; 177 pages! Daunting. Has anyone just summarized the steps you take in order to get SA8300HD output to a Mac? That would imply those DVR's have working firewire. Mine still won't establish a handshake with my JVC 40K deck; it's useless. And the D-VHS decks were the ones originally "cleared" to record HD content because they were relatively comfortable with 5C. Or so I thought.

It would have at least made SOME sense if they HAD followed the analog lineup for the broadcasts... what they did relates to nothing at all... not the analog, old digital or broadcast assignments. Where these came from just seems off the wall... the division president's favorite lottery numbers, maybe?

Why is CHILLER in the movie package catagory? Strange!

Jack

Following the trend of some other divisions, Charlotte is to get a complete channel lineup overhaul (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/144/Content%20Management/Documents/CDL/Charlotte.pdf) as of March 30th.

An overhaul was well overdue, but... to do such a complete revamp and not put the broadcast channels onto something that relates to their broadcast channel (e.g., WBTV(3) = 103SD/1103HD; WSOC(9) = 109SD/1109HD; WCCB(18) = 118SD/1118HD; etc) seems like a huge oversight. These assignments seem like they were pulled out of a hat (or someplace darker and warmer:rolleyes:).

I also think at this point in time the HD/SD assignments should have been reversed... make the SD holdouts key in the extra number.

I have been asking our division to do this FOREVER! I'm hoping that with the Navigator rollout it might actually happen. Finally some common sense channel alignment!!!

As for the aforementioned concerns with trying to line up local OTA PSIP data - it can't happen unless all your locals are on channels 2-13 because of FCC regulations. For example, here our NBC is 3, CBS is 5 & ABC is 9, but Fox is 68 so it was placed on Cable 8 because they can't put it on analog 68. Now, if cable was all digital, then they could mimic OTA channel designations for the 100 Tier and start digitals above that. Now, in most cases the QAM channel will be mapped to the broadcast PSIP data.

I'm fine with them doing this way as long as all the channels line up by the same core number. I hate that Food Network is 39, but HD channel 827. It's asinine and makes no sense. Right now, because TWC added over 100 channels here our HD line up spans the 700, 800, & 900 channels tiers! They should move all of them into the 1000 Tier and be done with it.

The Charlotte channel linup changes are for digital only... there's no reason, technical or regulatory, that we are getting the bizarre channel numbering for OTA channels.

They dedicated a block of 100 digital channel numbers to a dozen or so OTA channels... there is no reason that WBTV-3 could not have have been 103/1103 instead of 105/1105 or WTVI-42 could not have been 142/1142 instead of 175/1175. The channel numbering chosen relates to nothing... not OTA, and not analog cable.

I have been asking our division to do this FOREVER! I'm hoping that with the Navigator rollout it might actually happen. Finally some common sense channel alignment!!!

As for the aforementioned concerns with trying to line up local OTA PSIP data - it can't happen unless all your locals are on channels 2-13 because of FCC regulations. For example, here our NBC is 3, CBS is 5 & ABC is 9, but Fox is 68 so it was placed on Cable 8 because they can't put it on analog 68. Now, if cable was all digital, then they could mimic OTA channel designations for the 100 Tier and start digitals above that. Now, in most cases the QAM channel will be mapped to the broadcast PSIP data.

I'm fine with them doing this way as long as all the channels line up by the same core number. I hate that Food Network is 39, but HD channel 827. It's asinine and makes no sense. Right now, because TWC added over 100 channels here our HD line up spans the 700, 800, & 900 channels tiers! They should move all of them into the 1000 Tier and be done with it.

del

The Charlotte channel linup changes are for digital only... there's no reason, technical or regulatory, that we are getting the bizarre channel numbering for OTA channels.

They dedicated a block of 100 digital channel numbers to a dozen or so OTA channels... there is no reason that WBTV-3 could not have have been 103/1103 instead of 105/1105 or WTVI-42 could not have been 1142/1142 instead of 175/1175. The channel numbering chosen relates to nothing... not OTA, and not analog cable.

Thanks for the clarification. I would therefore concur that the 100 channel tier should have been reserved solely for the broadcast networks to align with their OTA designation. The channel alignment is likely a precursor to the eventual removal of all analog channels anyway. In my division, I'd just like to see some sort of consistency!

We've had some very odd channel reassignments that most logical speculation had payments from the channels as what was REALLY behind the changes.

Yes, nobody "knows for a fact," bit would that not be 100% in keeping with what TWC does?

We've had some very odd channel reassignments that most logical speculation had payments from the channels as what was REALLY behind the changes.

Yes, nobody "knows for a fact," bit would that not be 100% in keeping with what TWC does?

Possible... but you would think if a broadcaster paid anything it would have landed them on their OTA channel assignment.

The other changes in the realignment I really don't have a big problem with... they are going to be arbitrary anyway. Other than the OTA assignments, my only other complaint is that they should have been more forward thinking and given the HD channels the 3 digit assignments and banished the SD content to 4-digit territory.

I will say that with this type of channel numbering scheme (with its blocks of channel types with open channel numbers scattered throughout), there is no reason that TW could not establish a national channel numbering scheme... the only numbers that would have to differ between systems would be the "100s/1100s" that carry the local OTA channels. If a particular service is not carried locally, the channel number assigned to that service would just be left blank.