How do the Music Choice channels work? I am able to receive the channels using my STB, but not on my CableCard TV. I assumed there must be some 2-way traffic for these, but I'm not sure why.

That seems like an ideal 50 channels to convert to SDV to me. I can't use them with my CableCard anyway...

The music channels work for me via my cablecard TV in the Dallas area

The music channels work for me via my cablecard TV in the Dallas area

Huh. Interesting... Is that true for other TWC CableCard subs?

Well, I just called TWC Cincinnati. At first she told me that she didn't think that CableCards could get stuff like OnDemand, PPV, and Music Choice. When I pressed her on Music Choice, she checked with someone else who said they could add that for $1.99/mo... I declined since it wasn't that important to me.

That said, I'm still not confident this is really true. While I had her on the phone, I asked about when ESPN2HD would be added here and was told that they were working on a deal with Disney... How difficult is it for them to let their CSRs know that the deal was done 2 months ago?!?!

Well, I just called TWC Cincinnati. At first she told me that she didn't think that CableCards could get stuff like OnDemand, PPV, and Music Choice. When I pressed her on Music Choice, she checked with someone else who said they could add that for $1.99/mo... I declined since it wasn't that important to me.

That said, I'm still not confident this is really true. While I had her on the phone, I asked about when ESPN2HD would be added here and was told that they were working on a deal with Disney... How difficult is it for them to let their CSRs know that the deal was done 2 months ago?!?!That seems like a typical TW issue - not updating the databases that the CSRs use so that they have current up-to-date information!

RE: What she told you about OnDemand & PPV. Services that require 2 way communication will not work with current implementations of CableCard (in some systems it is possible to get a PPV movie on CableCard by ordering it via telephone). Music choice channels are just a matter of subscribing (some systems apparently send all these channels out "in-the-clear" while others actually have established a price for them).

RE: What she told you about OnDemand & PPV. Services that require 2 way communication will not work with current implementations of CableCard (in some systems it is possible to get a PPV movie on CableCard by ordering it via telephone). Music choice channels are just a matter of subscribing (some systems apparently send all these channels out "in-the-clear" while others actually have established a price for them).

Thanks Dave. I was aware of the 2-way issues with OnDemand & PPV - just didn't understand why the MusicChoice didn't work. Now I know.

Thanks Dave. I was aware of the 2-way issues with OnDemand & PPV - just didn't understand why the MusicChoice didn't work. Now I know.Frankly, TW management seems to want to grow mushrooms in the CSR department (by keeping them in the dark). They seem to believe that it is best to not acknowledge CableCards (except that the FCC forces them to) and "in the clear" QAM tuners.

To be honest though: these things (CableCards & QAM tuners) are a real pain. There is no standardized way that TV sets set these up and some are quite a pain. This creates a major support issue for the field techs. They might be able to deal with the way a few major brands (Sony, Samsung, etc.) work (assuming that they are consistant from model to model) - but really can't deal with all the variations out there (such as Vizio, Westinghouse, Syntex, etc.). The "easiest" (and most profitable) thing for them to do is to convince you to rent a box from them.

That said, I'm still not confident this is really true. While I had her on the phone, I asked about when ESPN2HD would be added here and was told that they were working on a deal with Disney... How difficult is it for them to let their CSRs know that the deal was done 2 months ago?!?!

FYI, I emailed TWC SW Ohio President Kevin Kidd a few months ago and one of the VPs emailed me back and let me know that they're planning to add ESPN2HD in Cincinnati sometime in the 3rd quarter. It is amazing that their CSRs are so far behind.

How do the Music Choice channels work? I am able to receive the channels using my STB, but not on my CableCard TV. I assumed there must be some 2-way traffic for these, but I'm not sure why.

That seems like an ideal 50 channels to convert to SDV to me. I can't use them with my CableCard anyway...
On TWC-San Diego, Music Choice is Dolby Digital Stereo (192 kbps)
times 49 channels = 9.4 Mbps. That's only a quarter of a QAM-256.

On the other hand, we have 12 FM stations on cable using PCM (1.41 Mbps),
(if it is using CD sampling freq) = 16.9 Mbps. That's not quite half a QAM-256.
[Hardly worth the effort to switch over to DD Stereo Encoders.]

If they were continuous (24/7) data streams scattered across several
QAM channels, the capacity reduction would be negligible....

[Alternatively, if some systems have the music streams coming out of an
OnDemand/VOD server, the data rate load would be minuscule....
But in this case, QAM tuners wouldn't "hear" anything until a neighbor tunes a MC channel.]

Due to the slow start times, I presume the VIDEO displays are coming
out of the OnDemand server....not even a speed bump....

This latter complication would explain why some CableCARD users don't get MC....

If any of you are interested in seeing the channel lineup for DC, my area, then I will put the file on here for you to see how the channels in my area are divided up for what frequencies and and how many are on that freq and etc... its a older version updated last on like the beginning of January! so take a look, its some pretty good info, it tells what frequency a channel is on and how many channels are on a qam and if its in the clear or not, I think most of you guys might find this interesting!! by the way, Music Choice out here in the desert is free to cableCARD subscribers, and PPV is available if you order by phone!!

Well i dont know how to get the file to you guys, but if you want it, let me know and I will email it to you all or send it somehow!! thanx

Huh. Interesting... Is that true for other TWC CableCard subs?
I get the Music Choice channels (including the silly video pictures and trivia) with Cablecard here in TWC Raleigh.

Replying to this post, and your next one. While I like what you say, there is a lot of irony in the FCC mandating that broadcast stations STOP transmitting an analog signal but mandating that cable stations convert digital signals TO analog. I can see a ot of congressional representatives and judges with quizzical looks on their faces when they're asked to deal with that situation. :)



Imagine all the landfills that are going to fill up as they do get tossed.

But there are a lot of people that can't afford to toss them and purchase new TV's. I'm not looking forward to acquiring four external tuners of any sort, but it looks inevitable and I will do that before I replace our four older TV's. Three of those TV's have remaining life spans that should be measured in decades.

If you measure their life span in decades, a $50 per set investment (I have even heard a possible $25) looks like a pretty good deal.

By the way, I suspect that cable companies are behind the proposed legislation to "require" them to keep kicking out analog. I saw a panel discussion on CSPAN a couple of years ago in which a cable company executive jumped to the microphone to say that cable companies could easily fix the loss of analog signals through "technology" (conversion of digital to analog) at the headends.

I get the Music Choice channels (including the silly video pictures and trivia) with Cablecard here in TWC Raleigh.

Has anyone had issues with ESPN2-HD and Cablecards? I'm seeing reports on the TWC thread on the local San Diego board that people with Cablecards can't get ESPN2-HD (and the clueless CSRs say that's correct) while those people who have STBs or DVRs (like myself) have no problems.

Those here in San Diego on Cox with Cablecards report no problems.

Huh. Interesting... Is that true for other TWC CableCard subs?

I believe there are cablecards issued for general digital service and cablecards for just the digital HD channels. I have the latter and everything is blocked out except channels 2 through 74 (analog) and the HD channels (700 series). When I pull the cablecard and use the QAM tuner, I get a few digital channels and the music channels (which have no value to me, since I am watching television).

Has anyone had issues with ESPN2-HD and Cablecards? I'm seeing reports on the TWC thread on the local San Diego board that people with Cablecards can't get ESPN2-HD (and the clueless CSRs say that's correct) while those people who have STBs or DVRs (like myself) have no problems.

Those here in San Diego on Cox with Cablecards report no problems.

ESPN2 HD works fine for me with cablecard (Dallas area)

I love that "antiquated" machine so much I have two of 'em. And a 500GB expansion drive to boot (try that with your satellite or TiVo DVR), giving me a whopping 3/4 of a terabyte of storage. Worth. Every. Penny.For $40 per month I hope that you do.

But wouldn't it be nice to have something else to choose from other than just a four-year-old SA8300?

IMO, w/SDV looming on the horizon TiVo S3's w/one-way CableCARDs are not a viable alternative.

four-year-old SA8300?

I would look into that short-term memory situation.

For $40 per month I hope that you do.

But wouldn't it be nice to have something else to choose from other than just a four-year-old SA8300?

.
I'm not sure the 8300 has been around 4 years. But it's not like it has locked up firmware. It will continue to evolve and get better. Not sure what you would prefer at this point.

I'm not sure the 8300 has been around 4 years. But it's not like it has locked up firmware. It will continue to evolve and get better. Not sure what you would prefer at this point.

I just posted an article relating to this in the 8300 thread. It's easily three years old at least.

As long as the box is locked in to TWC the software will dictate the features of the hardware. Passport has had several upgrades over the past couple of years but the features Aptiv offer rarely reach the end user because TWC doesn't apply them.

With Navigator this will change again since the capability of the box will be further limited by how fast and how capable engineering team of TWC are. It will be entirely in their hands what the 8300 is capable of. Whether it's adding expansion drives or enabling unit to unit recording or similar features.

If I had the choice of a TWC totally compatible HD DVR from Sony, Samsung etc. that I could buy I would probably look into it. There's lot of features that a DVR is capable of that the 8300 box doesn't do. Even if it's just a larger internal drive than the 160GB currently offered in the HD unit.

I love that "antiquated" machine so much I have two of 'em. And a 500GB expansion drive to boot (try that with your satellite or TiVo DVR), giving me a whopping 3/4 of a terabyte of storage. Worth. Every. Penny.Well according to this Tivo owner it’s possible to get more than 3/4 of a terabyte.
I followed the recommendations from the Tivo forum and purchased the Seagate DB35 hard drive (750G) and the Antec MX-1 enclosure. I followed the simple instructions and now my Tivo has one glorious terabyte of memory. My Tivo info screen says that my capacity has changed from 32 hrs of HD to 131!http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10735060#post10735060

I’m not too familiar with the Tivo products but I’m certainly interested in finding out more.
Can I even use one with TWC?
All I’m familiar with is what I've learned from the few posts on several different threads that have popped up lately.

I’d rather rent a couple of cable cards and spend the bucks on this posters set up rather than throw money to TWC for that faulty 8300. I’ve replaced four 8300s on one display since they came out. This, ironically, is the reason why I haven’t considered dumping the big cash on a (non replaceable for free) Tivo.

Has anyone had issues with ESPN2-HD and Cablecards? I'm seeing reports on the TWC thread on the local San Diego board that people with Cablecards can't get ESPN2-HD (and the clueless CSRs say that's correct) while those people who have STBs or DVRs (like myself) have no problems.

Those here in San Diego on Cox with Cablecards report no problems.

Here in Lincoln, ESPN2-HD isn't available to Cablecard customers. On this graphic in small print at the bottom, it says "Not all services available to Cable Card customers, including ESPN2-HD."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/programming/emailGfx/NewChannels.html

Here in Lincoln, ESPN2-HD isn't available to Cablecard customers. On this graphic in small print at the bottom, it says "Not all services available to Cable Card customers, including ESPN2-HD."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/programming/emailGfx/NewChannels.html

I wonder why.

I wonder why.


SDV?

what are VOOM channels? i was thinking of going to DISH TV just for MONSTERS HD, but if its coming to time warner then i might just stay with cable


Future HD channels update


The Movie Channel-HD - is done, supposedly
Food Network-HD - in negotiations
HGTV-HD - in negotiations
Lifetime Movie Network-HD - in negotiations
NFL Network-HD - in negotiations
Outdoor Channel 2-HD – is not in the works


Known Deals Done

HBO-HD
Cinemax-HD
Showtime-HD
Starz-HD
ESPN-HD
ESPN2-HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
MOJO
Universal-HD
TNT-HD
DHD
MHD
A&E-HD
Golf/Versus-HD
WealthTV-HD - Currently TWC has a deal only for HD-VOD content & only in San Antonio
National Geographic-HD - has been added only in TWC of Hawaii
Sleuth-HD - Has the rights to, Launch date TBA.
ESPN News-HD - coming to TWC in Q1 2008
Disney Channel-HD - coming to TWC in Q1 2008
ABC Family-HD - coming to TWC in Q1 2008


Negotiations Unknown

Big Ten Network-HD (Launching in August)
The History Channel-HD (Launching in September)
TBS-HD (Launching in September)
CNN-HD (Launching in September)
Cartoon Network-HD (Launching in September)
The Weather Channel-HD (Launching in September)
Starz Comedy-HD (Launching in September)
Starz Edge-HD (Launching in September)
Starz Kids & Family-HD (Launching in September)
Animal Planet-HD (Launching in September)
TLC-HD (Launching in September)
The Science Channel-HD (Launching in September)
Discovery Channel-HD (Launching in September)
Chiller-HD (Launching in 2008)
Sci-Fi-HD (Launching in September)
USA-HD (Launching in September)
Bravo-HD (Launching in September)
MGM-HD (Launching Fall 2007)
The Tennis Channel-HD (Launching in December)
TBN-HD (Launching in Q4 2007)
RFD-HD (Launching in Q4 2007)
Toon Disney-HD (Launching in Q1 2008)
MSNBC-HD (TBA)
2 Unknown Discovery Channels (Launching in 2008)
CNBC-HD (Launching in 2008)
SI TV-HD (Launching in 2008)
FX-HD
Speed-HD
Smithsonian-HD
Vatican-HD
BBC-HD
Al Jazeera-HD
IFC-HD
NHL Network-HD

VOOM Channels
Rave HD
Equator HD
Gallery HD
Animania HD
Rush HD
Ultra HD
Monsters HD
HD News
Film Fest HD
Kung Fu HD
WorldSport HD
World Cinema HD
Gameplay HD
Family Room HD
Treasure HD

what are VOOM channels? i was thinking of going to DISH TV just for MONSTERS HD, but if its coming to time warner then i might just stay with cable

Dish acquired the channels from Voom when it died. Voom was a HD sat service and had channels of it's own such as Monster. The chances of them appearing anywhere outside Dish are pretty much zero.

Although I'm sure I heard a rumor about some of the channels appearing elsewhere. I don't remember if that was just someone throwing around the idea however.

Here in Lincoln, ESPN2-HD isn't available to Cablecard customers. On this graphic in small print at the bottom, it says "Not all services available to Cable Card customers, including ESPN2-HD."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/programming/emailGfx/NewChannels.htmlDoes Time Warner offer any money back to it's CableCARD customers who are being denied access to select programming?

Does Time Warner offer any money back to it's CableCARD customers who are being denied access to select programming?Money back for what? One month's CableCard rent?

Does Time Warner offer any money back to it's CableCARD customers who are being denied access to select programming?
Maybe the cable companies should just put SDV channels on a separate tier.

Here in Lincoln, ESPN2-HD isn't available to Cablecard customers. On this graphic in small print at the bottom, it says "Not all services available to Cable Card customers, including ESPN2-HD."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/programming/emailGfx/NewChannels.html

Isn't that a violation of federal law or FCC guidelines? I've had people in San Diego make complaints to the FCC about this.

Isn't that a violation of federal law or FCC guidelines? I've had people in San Diego make complaints to the FCC about this.Not at all! There are no FCC regulations about what cable companies put on what tier.

There are a couple of things that might be making folks think that:
1) There ARE FCC regulations that require that any local digital TV station that is carried on cable be made available on the most basic tier. But that doesn't relate to CableCards as all that one needs to receive these is a QAM tuner (whether there is a CableCard or not).
2) The FCC was given a mandate back in the early 90s to enable customer owned equipment being able to receive premium channels. But the only rules to come out of that were that CableCards had to be made available - but no rules as to what had to be received on CableCards. The FCC eventually issued rules prohibiting cable companies from deploying new cable boxes with Integrated Security. While the FCC has postponed the date for this, they have been sticking to the latest date - July 1, 2007. So after that date, all NEW boxes provided by cable will use CableCards - and you can be sure that THOSE boxes will receive all services. BTW: Cable will still be able to "recycle" their current cable boxes - so when you order a new cable DVR, you might be provided one without a CableCard.

The issue of real concern about CableCards for us is SDV. In order for SDV to work, the cable box needs to communicate back to the cable system that it wants to watch a particular program. Two way communication needs to be part of the device that the CableCard plugs into. Naturally, the CableCard versions of cable boxes will do this, but the current consumer devices do not. There has been industry efforts to standardize the communications and software so that future customer owned equipment will work fully. This is OCAP. Industry is moving ahead to adopt OCAP, but from a consumer standpoint there is little that they can purchase right now incorporating that.

I'm not sure the 8300 has been around 4 years. But it's not like it has locked up firmware. It will continue to evolve and get better. Not sure what you would prefer at this point.

I suspect a lot of folks don't fully understand the hardware from the software (or the subtlety of firmware, OS, RTOS or application). I'd bet 95% of the issues are the software, not the hardware.

One definite hardware area the 8300 lacks is it's limited RAM. This actually constrains what the software can and can't do. It also makes the software side "invent" methods to get around limited RAM. Then again, triple the RAM and it could be the software guys get lazy...

Dish acquired the channels from Voom when it died. Voom was a HD sat service and had channels of it's own such as Monster. The chances of them appearing anywhere outside Dish are pretty much zero.

Although I'm sure I heard a rumor about some of the channels appearing elsewhere. I don't remember if that was just someone throwing around the idea however.

At the present time, I suspect the cable guys aren't even thinking about the Voom channels, they can't offer all of the current well know HD channels. As that bottleneck deminishes, they may turn their attention to them. I think it may be a stretch to get to "100 HD channels" without the Voom channels being in the mix. If I was a cable exec, I sure as hell would be talking (out of others earshot!) with them.

The 8300HD box has been a dream. I dont know about you guys, but its a lot better than that 8000 model where all the hardrives were dying cuz of heat issues and etc. and its been almost 2 1/2 years since the 8300 was brought into my cable system. and i have had the box ever since then. Also about the cable CARD delima about services, before the card was installed there was a paper and a package you signed up for and it would have had to said something on there about the limitations of cableCARDs as opposed to STB's. So dont be complaining about not getting channels on the cablecard that people with STB have, you pay what you get for, cableCARD technology still has years of improvement yet, so you will be limited. Dont cry, you only pay a few bucks for the card anyways!! As for me, I dont pay nothing, since I work for TWC, i get everything for free!! well, phone is half off! so not all the way free!!

...So dont be complaining about not getting channels on the cablecard that people with STB have, you pay what you get for...
really? i get what i motherf00king pay for? then why is it that if i pay for a whole tier and have a cable card, some of the channels are missing, it would seem that in fact i'm not f00king getting what i'm paying for...
no matter what the cable system, a cable card should be able to tune authorized encrypted channels as long as the channel map is relatively static (no SDV), and they should obviously be able to tune unencrypted channels (ie, my month long struggle to receive KCAL-HD with a cable card, while it was coming through fine unencrypted without the card, meaning the problem wasnt the card in the first place but f00king clueless engineers at the cable co that couldn't setup the channel map properly), this also does/should mean i can get PPV/sports packages through cable card, i just can't order them using my remote i have to :::gasp::: pick up my phone and call to order
god i hope that competition catches up with the cable/telecom/DBS industry soon
:::edit::: the 8300HD was pretty good, until the constant HDCP problems (mine got real crabby and would barely work with either of my sets, both of which are HDCP compliant), and the fact that it shows you the HDCP warning screen, even when you are watching a channel that is set to 'copy freely' is ludicrous, but my fav feature was the PIP, although if it did a split screen pip that'd be great

Maybe the cable companies should just put SDV channels on a separate tier.Or perhaps they should upgrade their aging network infrastructure to fiber. ;) If the cable MSOs keep squeezing every penny of revenue from their subscribers with no improvement in service (e.g. new STBs/DVRs & better network) eventually FiOS will take over the business.

Or perhaps they should upgrade their aging network infrastructure to fiber. ;) If the cable MSOs keep squeezing every penny of revenue from their subscribers with no improvement in service (e.g. new STBs/DVRs & better network) eventually FiOS will take over the business.

Uh, I can only state for sure that my TWC system/location has been fiber for years. Matter of fact, RoadRunner was NOT available until we got fiber. I remember (in Manhattan) they started fiber at the southern most point and worked their way uptown. A good bud got RR almost 2 years before I did, he lived in the east village (alphabet city) and I just south of Columbia (Bloomingdale area). This was about 3-4 years ago.

My understanding is that they use a "500 customers to a fiber node" scenario. My fiber node switch to copper about 1/2 short block from my building.

The 8300HD box has been a dream. I dont know about you guys, but its a lot better than that 8000 model where all the hardrives were dying cuz of heat issues and etc. and its been almost 2 1/2 years since the 8300 was brought into my cable system. and i have had the box ever since then. Also about the cable CARD delima about services, before the card was installed there was a paper and a package you signed up for and it would have had to said something on there about the limitations of cableCARDs as opposed to STB's. So dont be complaining about not getting channels on the cablecard that people with STB have, you pay what you get for, cableCARD technology still has years of improvement yet, so you will be limited. Dont cry, you only pay a few bucks for the card anyways!! As for me, I dont pay nothing, since I work for TWC, i get everything for free!! well, phone is half off! so not all the way free!!

One way cablecard is great. I get ALL of the HD channels (17) for the $1.75 rental of a cablecard. If I wanted to pay for them, I could have ALL of the non-HD digital channels via cablecard as well. I do not understand what the whining is about.

One way cablecard is great. I get ALL of the HD channels (17) for the $1.75 rental of a cablecard. If I wanted to pay for them, I could have ALL of the non-HD digital channels via cablecard as well. I do not understand what the whining is about.
a lot of people get crappy support from their cable co's when they have cable cards, ie it took me almost a month to get one of my local channels in HD to show up through the cablecard even though it was coming through unencrypted fine without the card, three service calls, a couple of angry letters to the tv station, and the PR dept at my local TW, i was also told by one tech that cablecard customers "weren't supposed to receive the local channels in HD" and was asked several times "why the hell do you want a cable card? wouldn't you be much happier with a box?" i would've been much happier if the box wasn't 15 bones a month

Uh, I can only state for sure that my TWC system/location has been fiber for years. Matter of fact, RoadRunner was NOT available until we got fiber. I remember (in Manhattan) they started fiber at the southern most point and worked their way uptown. A good bud got RR almost 2 years before I did, he lived in the east village (alphabet city) and I just south of Columbia (Bloomingdale area). This was about 3-4 years ago.

My understanding is that they use a "500 customers to a fiber node" scenario. My fiber node switch to copper about 1/2 short block from my building.How many residential buildings are wired w/RG-6... most likely it's RG-59.

My opinion: If you pay for ESPN, ESPN2, etc, then you should get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD IN THE CLEAR with a QAM Tuner.

These monthly fees for these boxes are STUPID and RIDICULOUS, and just nickel and dime us to death.

My opinion: If you pay for ESPN, ESPN2, etc, then you should get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD IN THE CLEAR with a QAM Tuner.But, if these are on an extra tier, the only way they have to keep the "freeloaders" from getting it is to encode.

These monthly fees for these boxes are STUPID and RIDICULOUS, and just nickel and dime us to death.NO, they are neither stupid or ridiculous, they cost the cable company money to acquire, finance and maintain - it is entirely reasonable that there be a return on that investment through a monthly fee.

NO, they are neither stupid or ridiculous, they cost the cable company money to acquire, finance and maintain - it is entirely reasonable that there be a return on that investment through a monthly fee.$20 per month to rent some pos SA8300 DVR... you gotta be kidding! :p

$20 per month to rent some pos SA8300 DVR... you gotta be kidding! :pYou know, and the rest of us know, that YOU play fast and loose with the numbers. I believe that the charge for the DVR is really about $10/month. Contrast that with just what the service fee to TiVo is, forgetting the $700 cost of the box!

You know, and the rest of us know, that YOU play fast and loose with the numbers. I believe that the charge for the DVR is really about $10/month. Contrast that with just what the service fee to TiVo is, forgetting the $700 cost of the box!Now who is playing loose with those numbers? ;)

TiVo ® - Official Site


300-hr TiVo® Series3™ HD
Digital Media Recorder is $599.99 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR)

Time Warner - all the best? :rolleyes:

Digital Video Recorder (DVR) service

with Digital Cable $9.95/month

Converter box (Digital, HD, DVR, HD DVR) $7.65/month

Remote control $0.30/month = $17.90 per month + tax (http://www.timewarnercable.com/albany/products/pricing.html).

Of course I would not buy any non-interactive A/V product or one that contains a one-way CableCARD slot.

Of course I would not buy any non-interactive A/V product or one that contains a one-way CableCARD slot. Why not? You like feeding the CC??

Now who is playing loose with those numbers? ;)

TiVo ® - Official Site


300-hr TiVo® Series3™ HD
Digital Media Recorder is $599.99 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR)

Time Warner - all the best? :rolleyes:

Digital Video Recorder (DVR) service

with Digital Cable $9.95/month

Converter box (Digital, HD, DVR, HD DVR) $7.65/month

Remote control $0.30/month = $17.90 per month + tax (http://www.timewarnercable.com/albany/products/pricing.html).

Of course I would not buy any non-interactive A/V product or one that contains a one-way CableCARD slot.Didn't realize that they reduced the price of TiVo by $100.

BUT thanks for confirming that you were playing loose with the numbers as the DVR is $9.95 month.

thanks for confirming that you were playing loose with the numbers as the DVR is $9.95 month.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that they way the pricing goes, you pay the 8 buck STB fee as part of the package you get. So the 10 buck DVR fee is added for a STB cost of 18.

Forgetting the DVR part, I DO wonder if you get the "normal" package and want a cable card, do they drop that 8 buck fee? Of course, by normal I mean digital cable; many years ago, there very much was an additional fee for "digital" but in my market, there is no extra fee because all the packages imply digital.

And let's not forget a lot of this stuff is very market specific. And 100% there are big inequities going on, but I suspect a lot of them are due to where there IS competition and where there isn't. I've ranted quite a bit about things like 200 miles away from me in the same state, but I'm also sure that the reason is I have ZERO competition while there's way more options 200 miles away.

But, if these are on an extra tier, the only way they have to keep the "freeloaders" from getting it is to encode.

NO, they are neither stupid or ridiculous, they cost the cable company money to acquire, finance and maintain - it is entirely reasonable that there be a return on that investment through a monthly fee.

ESPN HD should not cost extra to what is already paid for ESPN (analog).

ESPN HD should not cost extra to what is already paid for ESPN (analog).
Should not, but is.

What should we do about it? I'm tired of the $7/mo extra I pay for the priveledge.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that they way the pricing goes, you pay the 8 buck STB fee as part of the package you get. So the 10 buck DVR fee is added for a STB cost of 18.

Forgetting the DVR part, I DO wonder if you get the "normal" package and want a cable card, do they drop that 8 buck fee? Of course, by normal I mean digital cable; many years ago, there very much was an additional fee for "digital" but in my market, there is no extra fee because all the packages imply digital.

And let's not forget a lot of this stuff is very market specific. And 100% there are big inequities going on, but I suspect a lot of them are due to where there IS competition and where there isn't. I've ranted quite a bit about things like 200 miles away from me in the same state, but I'm also sure that the reason is I have ZERO competition while there's way more options 200 miles away.

In the Dallas area:
DVR with remote: $12.95;
Cablecard: $2.95 for any number of cablecards
HD Tier: $3.00 (currently only includes MOJO, HDNET and Universal HD)
Digital Classic is included in the overall plan.

ESPN HD should not cost extra to what is already paid for ESPN (analog).

Depends on your service plan. If you are paying for a plan that includes digital then you should get ESPN HD. If you are not paying for a digital plan then you won't.

BUT thanks for confirming that you were playing loose with the numbers as the DVR is $9.95 month.

No. The 9.95 is misleading. In order to get a functional HD-DVR, I had to get the following:

DVR Service $9.95/month

SA-8300HD HD-DVR $7.95/month

Remote control $0.50/month

Guide fee $2.95 / month

The DVR required each and all of the above to function. Its actually over $21.00 /month + tax (the HDDVR would not work without each and every service listed above). This is what was quoted to me to add DVR service to my limited tier plus HD Tier service. So, instead of wasting $240 plus per year, I bought a Toshiba Symbio HDDVR that works with my cablecard equipped TV (Cablecard $1.75/month). It has paid for itself two times over already.

TWC is making a killing on its DVR service. Cablecards have already given people more options, and no surpirse, the cable industry has done everything it can to derail it. Now that cablecards have started to take hold, TWC moves to SDV so people have to move back to the boxes. Hopefully the FCC will step inor a solution will be found.

Edit: Forgot to mention the picture quality on the 8300HD is inferior to the picture provided with the cablecard.

added more HD channels to the Negotiations Unknown section on page 1.

HBO2-HD (Launching in September)
HBO Family-HD (Launching in September)
HBO Latino-HD (Launching in September)
HBO Signature-HD (Launching in September)
MoreMax-HD (Launching in September)
HBO Comedy-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
HBO Zone-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
ActionMAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
ThrillerMAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
WMAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
@MAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
5StarMAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)
OuterMAX-HD (Launching in Q2 2008)

But, if these are on an extra tier, the only way they have to keep the "freeloaders" from getting it is to encode.

NO, they are neither stupid or ridiculous, they cost the cable company money to acquire, finance and maintain - it is entirely reasonable that there be a return on that investment through a monthly fee.

Why are they on an extra tier when I pay for ESPN and ESPN2 currently?


You should not be charged twice for the HD feed of a channel you already receive in SD, period. Therefore, if you pay for the analog service that includes that channel, you should be able to get it on your QAM tuner WITHOUT the box.

They just nickel and dime us to death. I'm sick of it.

Why are they on an extra tier when I pay for ESPN and ESPN2 currently?


You should not be charged twice for the HD feed of a channel you already receive in SD, period. Therefore, if you pay for the analog service that includes that channel, you should be able to get it on your QAM tuner WITHOUT the box.

They just nickel and dime us to death. I'm sick of it.Let's put it this way: Should one be able to receive the HD versions of ESPN and ESPN2 when one DOES NOT PAY for those channels on the SD tier?

one issue is that the HD version of ESPN & the duece cost the cable co's extra money, so i can recognize the need to at least charge a little bit more for them (but $5 for otherwise useless HD tier is reduculous), and having these channels come through unencrypted would be great, but there does need to be some way to prevent theft and encryption is doing a pretty good job, the biggest problem is the previously mentioned railroading of cablecards by the cable industry, i mean how phat would it be if we had M-cards by now that supported dual tuners with two way communication, and they'd be great for lots of custom installations where STB's are a huge pain in the arse (like wall mounted flat screens), oh well hopefully competition from D* and FIOS will get the cable co's to open their eyes, i know my tv has a CC slot, but it's basically going to become a 62" HD-ready display once the cable co's switch to SDV, although, IMHO, by the time they are seriously ready to roll SDV, a lot of people won't rely on analog cable anymore and they could replace the analog-SD's with appropriate digital-SD's and have more then enough bandwidth and hence not really need to switch to SDV

TWC is hot and heavy into SDV. We had here for quite awhile. CC are very limited on our system. Heck, they charge $2 a month and there is a intall fee as well.

No. The 9.95 is misleading. In order to get a functional HD-DVR, I had to get the following:

DVR Service $9.95/month

SA-8300HD HD-DVR $7.95/month

Remote control $0.50/month

Guide fee $2.95 / month

The DVR required each and all of the above to function. Its actually over $21.00 /month + tax (the HDDVR would not work without each and every service listed above). This is what was quoted to me to add DVR service to my limited tier plus HD Tier service. So, instead of wasting $240 plus per year, I bought a Toshiba Symbio HDDVR that works with my cablecard equipped TV (Cablecard $1.75/month). It has paid for itself two times over already.

TWC is making a killing on its DVR service. Cablecards have already given people more options, and no surpirse, the cable industry has done everything it can to derail it. Now that cablecards have started to take hold, TWC moves to SDV so people have to move back to the boxes. Hopefully the FCC will step inor a solution will be found.

Edit: Forgot to mention the picture quality on the 8300HD is inferior to the picture provided with the cablecard.I wonder, is Mr. Hancock employed by Time Warner?The DVR required each and all of the above to function. Its actually over $21.00 /month + tax My local cable TV provider, Albany Time Warner, only charges $17.90 + tax per month for their "all the best" (not) DVR & service. :rolleyes:

I'm going run right over and pick up one of those "clunky" (http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=clunky) old boxes today! :DTWC is hot and heavy into SDV. We had here for quite awhile. CC are very limited on our system. Heck, they charge $2 a month and there is a intall fee as well.This is the last straw for me. I'm out of the HDTV acquisition phase until interactive (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104590&modelNo=Content01072007024440900&surfModel=Content01072007024440900) digital cable ready devices become available. ;)

Why are they on an extra tier when I pay for ESPN and ESPN2 currently?


You should not be charged twice for the HD feed of a channel you already receive in SD, period. Therefore, if you pay for the analog service that includes that channel, you should be able to get it on your QAM tuner WITHOUT the box.

They just nickel and dime us to death. I'm sick of it.


Everything has a price. However, I think your argument is with the networks/local stations both OTA and cable! Both usually want something from the cable company to retransmit their HD signal. The networks want the additional dollars to recoup their expenses to convert to and send the digital/HD signal either by charging for the HD signal or requiring carriage of sub-channels or other networks (ESPN wants ESPNU picked up), while the cable companies want to avoid carrying these little viewed sub-channels and the loss of bandwith or paying for the signal as that increases their costs which gets passed on to the customers.

Where I live the local ABC station has been HD since the late 1990's but only in the last few months has the cable company reached a retransmission agreement for their HD channel. So the cable companies are not always looking to nickel and dime you, it may well be your local station looking for you to pay for their digital upgrade.

Should not, but is.

What should we do about it? I'm tired of the $7/mo extra I pay for the priveledge.

Well, I'm on TWC and I don't pay extra for ESPN HD. (Only extra cost for 17 HD channels is $1.75 monthly cablecard rental.)

Depends on your service plan. If you are paying for a plan that includes digital then you should get ESPN HD. If you are not paying for a digital plan then you won't.

I do not pay for a digital plan.

I know for a fact the Hancock is NOT and employee of TWC... I am though a Maint Tech for the plant and do work for TWC. I have gotten into arguments before with hancock if you look back on previous pages, and believe me, he isnt!! hehe, in that case, I am surprised that Hancock is this nice about TWC, lol! Anyways, about the boxes for HD, you gotta be charged somehow for the box to keep it maintained and working properly! You think you are just gonna get a free box and remote to receive your services? Nope, and maybe you should, but then who is gonna pay for repairs and new boxes? If you break a box or something to that matter, do you want to pay the hundreds of dollars to replace and etc, or would you rather just pay a fee per month and if it breaks you get another box, and when the boxes do upgrade later in the feature like maybe new hardware or something, you can swap that box out and etc and have the new technology and still just have the monthly fee, instead of having to buy a whole new box or etc like from the sat companies, or having your Tivo get outgraded by new technology and pay what is it, 600 bucks again to get a new box which doesnt really fully integrate all the way with most TV systems!! TWC DVR is built into the STB and recording and watching is a breeze!! Also, on another note, SDV is the way to go, for both more content and theft protection. If you pay for the service then you should get a cablecard or STB to tune into the channels, I dont think its right to have the channels in the clear if you are stealing cable. If you are hooked up to the system illegally, you casue problems for everyone else on the node cuz of noise. So if you want free TV then get it OTA, theres a reason it is OTA for free, get it there and dont cause problems on the cable system! also, TWC has been using Fiber much longer than Verizon has been. Its been in place I know in my area for well over 15 years!! even longer than that on some areas! We just run the fiber to a node, then convert it to coax from there! It is kinda based on the 500 people concept, but is not really a guidline. Some nodes where i live have well over 1,000 people on them, and thats afters a node split! some nodes only have 200 people on them, its based on the area being built and how the lines can be run from house to house!! The only problem with lots of people on a node wont be picture quality, but noise which can cause the internet to go out, then someone like me has to go out there and find out what house is casuing the noise and its usually some illegal customer that broke a port on a tap and stuck the center conductor into the system without a connector and then have an amplifier on top of that which causes massive noise!! anyways, any other questions? SDV is the way to go, you people all say that once analog is gone there will be more bandwith and etc... do you guys remember why analog is going away?? so the government can reclaim that bandwith frequencies!! so once analog is gone completely, cable companies wont have all that bandwith they used to have, the government will have it, so SDV is the way to go for the long run!!

Also... ESPNHD is free on ALL TWC systems now, you aint paying for it no more!! But you do need a HD box which is a free upgrade and the local HD channels will come in free!! along with DiscHD TNTHD and ESPNHD and possibly ESPN2HD!

once analog is gone completely, cable companies wont have all that bandwith they used to have, the government will have it, so SDV is the way to go for the long run!!
It's OTA bandwidth, unless your cable is shrinking.

"analog disappearing" has two completely different meanings; the obvious, as Gary J stated is the OTA analog broadcast shutdown, which will open up bandwidth for the government to auction off (i think it's already sold this bandwidth, but i'm not sure), and then there are cable systems that are attempting to change all of their channels to digital, for instance Comcast To Go All-Digital in Chicago, Room For "120 HD Channels" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10753821#post10753821)
There are numerous reasons for systems to move channels over to digital (revenue, bandwidth, just so cable co's can say they are all digital in the battle against D*, etc...), but given that a 6 MHz slot used by a SD-analog channel can hold up to six SD-digital channels (or 2 HD channels, although lots of systems like to cram in a couple of SD subchannels too), the transition of expanded basic (Comedy Central, FX, USA, TNT, Cartoon Network, etc...) to SD-digital should free up a lot of bandwidth on most cable systems (assuming that a cable system transitions roughly 50-70 channels) creating enough room for roughly up to 100+ HD channels; combine this with any kind of plant upgrade to get the system at least up to/over 750+MHz, and the bandwidth should be plentiful for at least a couple of years

here's some periods, put them where you want them
............................................................ ............................................................ ........

Also... ESPNHD is free on ALL TWC systems now, you aint paying for it no more!!

I don't think that is the case here in Cincinnati yet. I expect that will happen whenever they get around to rolling out ESPN2HD. Of course, I'll likely have satellite by then...

If you break a box or something to that matter, do you want to pay the hundreds of dollars to replace and etc, or would you rather just pay a fee per month and if it breaks you get another box, and when the boxes do upgrade later in the feature like maybe new hardware or something, you can swap that box out and etc and have the new technology and still just have the monthly fee, instead of having to buy a whole new box . . .


Thats part of the problem. I have heard stories from installers about being called out to a house with a STB problem only to find a coke had been spilled all over the STB. TWC replaced it free of charge. People abuse their STBs and TWC replaces it, no questions asked. Guess who pays the bill? Everyone else who pays the $7.95 / month price.

Ever hear of the stories about people who continued to pay a rental fee for their rotary phones issued by AT&T for years only to wake up and realise that they had spent $3000 in rental fees for the rotary phone? See http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-09-14-phone_x.htm Imagine also if the only option had been to rent, rather than buy outright, a telephone. This is what the cable companies tried to accomplish by opposing the integration ban.

if only a TW cable box was as reliable as an old At&T phone.

about the boxes for HD, you gotta be charged somehow for the box to keep it maintained and working properly! You think you are just gonna get a free box and remote to receive your services? Nope, and maybe you should, but then who is gonna pay for repairs and new boxes?Will Albany Time Warner ever provide a successor to the SA8300 DVR? If you break a box or something to that matter, do you want to pay the hundreds of dollars to replaceHow am I going to "break" TWs STB? :confused: when the boxes do upgrade later in the feature like maybe new hardware or something, you can swap that box out and etc and have the new technology and still just have the monthly fee, instead of having to buy a whole new box or etc like from the sat companies, or having your Tivo get outgraded by new technologyLike when TW implements SDV & turns the S3 into a fancy doorstop. :D SDV is the way to go, for both more content and theft protection. If you pay for the service then you should get a cablecard or STB to tune into the channelsAnd when TW goes to SDV we all know what will happen to our $$$$ TVs w/one-way CableCARDs. ;)

When will Time Warner support two-way interactive communications and will it be using M-Cards or DCAS to control DRM? 2008, 2009... never? :rolleyes:

Time Warner has enjoyed a monopoly for many years... but soon FiOS TV will be available in most of the metro areas, so then you guys will have to put-up or shut-up! ;)

BTW... I've got (2) cousins who are employed by Time Warner & based on their reported compensation package w/overtime & benefits I now know why my cable bill is so expensive! :eek:

Of course, TW is no worse than my local school district that forces a redistribution of wealth where the property owner has no say in the matter. :mad:

TWC in NY/NJ must have just moved ESPNHD and ESPN2HD to the free tier overnight. I checked last night at 2AM local time but it still said I had to subscribe for espn hd's, but in the morning I just checked and it's on the free tier now. I read the news story and was skeptical that it was actually going to move to the free tier on the 14th but it has! Enjoy everyone!

Let's put it this way: Should one be able to receive the HD versions of ESPN and ESPN2 when one DOES NOT PAY for those channels on the SD tier?

Oh Dave, are you completely forgetting our collective sense of entitlement<g>?

I tell you, at times it's very difficult to draw any form conclusions due to the vast array of seemingly wildly different pricing. I KNOW that they had it in writing that even with a package plan, one HAD to pay about 8 bucks for the non DVR cable box. I COULD dig out some old bills because I know I saw it there. Checking this morning, they make no mention of the cost of a regular digital cable box that accompanies the plans.

if only a TW cable box was as reliable as an old At&T phone.

Well, while I may say the same thing, just compare what that old rotary phone DID and what a current DVR does... trust me, 3 functioning streams of high bandwidth HD (record 2 HD channels while watching a recorded HD show, that's 3 simultaneous streams) content at the same time is far, far harder than most would even begin to understand.

TWC in NY/NJ must have just moved ESPNHD and ESPN2HD to the free tier overnight. I checked last night at 2AM local time but it still said I had to subscribe for espn hd's, but in the morning I just checked and it's on the free tier now. I read the news story and was skeptical that it was actually going to move to the free tier on the 14th but it has! Enjoy everyone!

Interesting, generally they roll these things out in the 4-6 AM block, but in the city, none of the channel shuffling (or addition for ESPN2 HD) have happened.

I wonder, is Mr. Hancock employed by Time Warner?NO, I am not - and I am a somewhat vocal critic on our local HDTV site of several of TW's practices. BUT, I also recognize when people play fast and loose with their statements and I feel that folks should have the straight, unbiased story.

I also do not hide behind some sort of anonymous screen name, and am perfectly willing to put my location in my profile. I stand behind what I say.

Interesting, generally they roll these things out in the 4-6 AM block, but in the city, none of the channel shuffling (or addition for ESPN2 HD) have happened.

Try ch. 729 - it doesnt show up in my guide but its ESPN 2 HD

TWC in NY/NJ must have just moved ESPNHD and ESPN2HD to the free tier overnight. I checked last night at 2AM local time but it still said I had to subscribe for espn hd's, but in the morning I just checked and it's on the free tier now. I read the news story and was skeptical that it was actually going to move to the free tier on the 14th but it has! Enjoy everyone!I'm not sure that folks will necessarily notice ESPNHD moving to free status. That can easily be accomplished simply by changing the flags in the video bit stream to "clear". People who previously did not subscribe will now be able to tune it without getting some sort of "you do not subscribe to this service" message. Those who did subscribe (I'm one of those) won't notice any difference.

I'm not sure that folks will necessarily notice ESPNHD moving to free status. That can easily be accomplished simply by changing the flags in the video bit stream to "clear". People who previously did not subscribe will now be able to tune it without getting some sort of "you do not subscribe to this service" message. Those who did subscribe (I'm one of those) won't notice any difference.

That's all I was saying. ESPNHD moved to the free tier (I wasn't a subscriber) and now ESPN2HD was added on channel 729 here in NJ.

I have no idea exactly when the channel changeover was made because they bungled at least part of it. The plan was to eliminate 701 HBO HD and move it to 780. Well, they left it behind, so now I have that channels appearing on 701 and 780. I'm sure they'll get it fixed in the next 17 years (or before the locusts come again).

Despite that, TWC NYC does carry ESPN 1&2 HD, both are working here. Dave's correct, those of us with HDXtra will ONLY see the addition of 2 as we already paid for and got 1. Some folks got cable bills talking about a price reduction of $1.95, but other have said there a catch without explaining what the catch is. TWC's site does even have something that tells you WHAT is in HDXtra, only how much additional it costs. Their program changes page indicated that HD speciality tier was getting something like 7 sports channels, all in glorious SD. NATURALLY, the info is gone today; as I didn't copy it, it's impossible to find what those SD channels actually are.

Still, keeping to the thread topic, they CAN claim to have delivered a "new" HD channel (to us, TWC has already given it to many other customers, just not in NYC (or other cities I don't know about).

If and when I can pick up ESPN HD with a QAM tuner unencrypted, I will drop my cable subscription to the lowest humanly possible rate. If that means $12.95/mo legacy cable, so be it. ESPN is one of seriously 5 digital channels I watch, and probably the only one worth keeping Digital Cable for. The other channels being HDNet, InHD, Universal HD, and plain-jane Comedy Central. And I could definitely do without all 4. The only reason I even want ESPN is for football season.

Of course, best case scenario would be if through some miracle of God, ESPN became an OTA channel. We can all be dreamers, can't we?

701 is gone now (upper east side).

Well, while I may say the same thing, just compare what that old rotary phone DID and what a current DVR does... trust me, 3 functioning streams of high bandwidth HD (record 2 HD channels while watching a recorded HD show, that's 3 simultaneous streams) content at the same time is far, far harder than most would even begin to understand.

yes though I wasn't around when the phone was 1st introduced & can only imagine how extraordinary it was for the time. Even today if I had to choose only one between a phone or a dvr it would be a phone.

I also recognize when people play fast and loose with their statements and I feel that folks should have the straight, unbiased story.

I also do not hide behind some sort of anonymous screen name, and am perfectly willing to put my location in my profile. I stand behind what I say.Dude... in this age of Big Brother & Identity Theft a little anonymity is a good thing. :)

"optivity" is one of my alter ego's and I would not say that he "builds a better box" unless it is true. ;)

Besides who cares about someone's screen name when in reality my numbers are way more accurate than yours. :p

Dude... in this age of Big Brother & Identity Theft a little anonymity is a good thing. :)

"optivity" is one of my alter ego's and I would not say that he "builds a better box" unless it is true. ;)

Besides who cares about someone's screen name when in reality my numbers are way more accurate than yours. :pIt's not your numbers that are inaccurate, it's how you continually misuse them!

It's not your numbers that are inaccurate, it's how you continually misuse them!what misuse? " " me

The SA8300 is at least 4 years old
Could find more but not worth my time. ;)

Yeah, 701 is now gone AND my screwed up series recordings for HDNet got fixed as well. YES and SNY seem STILL to be shown on 2 channels each, so there IS potential for recordings to go "bad" if scheduled recordings are immediately fixed (there was many hours yesterday when HDNet was 798, but all recordings were set to 724).

I also found out the supposed 2 buck "reduction" is bogus. You MUST have both HDXtra AND a pay extra sports tier. Essnetially, it means you no longer pay FOR the sports tier because it is included with what they HAD marketed as a HD speciality tier, which now has 3 HD channels and about 6 or so sports SD channels. Bastards.

It was just recently posted that TWC in only Staten Island, NYC has "The Move Channel-HD".

It was just recently posted that TWC in only Staten Island, NYC has "The Move Channel-HD".

*sigh* just makes TWC Columbus look that much worse. Of the 5 big movie channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, and TMC), our branch only has HBO and Showtime in HD. PATHETIC

*sigh* just makes TWC Columbus look that much worse. Of the 5 big movie channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, and TMC), our branch only has HBO and Showtime in HD. PATHETIC

Truth be told, I suspect MOST will say those 2 are the ones to have. While Cinemax HD is available in my market, I opted to try and bring some control to my cable bill and dropped them because everything that shows on Cinemax makes it to HBO, 2-3 months later. AND they know folks are doing the because for the past 6 months I see a very clear pattern that ALL there first showings now go to Cinemax, you almost never see a premiere of the top-tier movie on HBO. I suspect TMC content is always shared with SHO.

Starz doesn't seem to have the exclusives it used to have. AND HBO/SHO have a lot of scripted and original content while Starz is strictly theatrical movies.

So take heart my mid-west brothers!

*sigh* just makes TWC Columbus look that much worse. Of the 5 big movie channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, and TMC), our branch only has HBO and Showtime in HD. PATHETICHow many different not-so-premium HD channels does one need to watch reruns of old movies that have been viewed many times before?

Since I refuse to pay Time Warner ~$20 per month for their crappy SA8300 DVR... I'll have to stay up X-tra late tonight to catch HBO's all-new episode of:

CATHOUSE SEASON TWO 16: NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&ID=116632). :rolleyes:

How many different not-so-premium HD channels does one need to watch reruns of old movies that have been viewed many times before?

Since I refuse to pay Time Warner ~$20 per month for their crappy SA8300 DVR... I'll have to stay up X-tra late tonight to catch HBO's all-new episode of:

CATHOUSE SEASON TWO 16: NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&ID=116632). :rolleyes:

So then carry less channels and charge less. Don't charge the same as companies like Comcast and Dish Network and offer less. Time Warner charges just as much and offers A LOT less out here. Are you saying that's fair?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/twhbo061607.htm

News
Time Warner 'Expects' to Carry HBO Channels In HD
But the cable operator also says it could feature the content via on demand services.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (June 16, 2007) -- Time Warner says it "expects" that it will carry HBO's new High-Definition channels which will launch later this year.

That's according to an article in Multichannel News.

HBO announced this week that it will broadcast all 26 HBO and Cinemax channels in high-def, beginning the rollout this September. The premium network currently airs only four of its 26 channels in HD.

After the HBO announcement, DIRECTV quickly said it would carry 11 HBO/Cinemax channels in high-def, beginning with the addition of several channels this September.

The satcaster is scheduled to dramatically expand its high-def lineup in September after the launch of a new satellite next month.

Time Warner Cable, a sister company to HBO, has said in recent weeks that new technologies will enable it to match DIRECTV's HD channel capacity.

Asked by Multichannel News if it will carry the new high-def HBO channels, Time Warner spokesman Mark Harrad said, "We expect to carry the channels in HD."

However, Harrad added that some of the HBO high-def content could be offered on the cable operator's Video on Demand menu.

“We’re expectant that HBO will offer a very robust HD VOD package as well,” Harrad told the publication. "I’m sure in one sense or another that we’ll have HBO in high-def as we do now on their linear channel.”

Based on Harrad's remarks, it's possible that Time Warner will add some HBO high-def channels on a 24 hour basis while others will be included in the On Demand lineup. The On Demand feature offers just a small percentage of a channel's entire programming lineup.

However, Harrad added that some of the HBO high-def content could be offered on the cable operator's Video on Demand menu.
I despise on demand channels and that doesn't count as adding an HD channel in my book. If VOD is the future of HD on cable then that will be the fastest way to push me back to satellite.

I despise on demand channels and that doesn't count as adding an HD channel in my book. If VOD is the future of HD on cable then that will be the fastest way to push me back to satellite.So what is your problem with On Demand? Seems to be an excellent way to provide the programs that we want to see - when we want to see it.

Or is it that On Demand is a bit too proprietary for your tastes - requiring the use of a cable supplied box to access? But then, isn't ANY form of satellite JUST as proprietary too?

i'll tell you what i don't like about hbo on-demand here in hawaii. THEY MAKE YOU PAY EXTRA FOR IT!

i subscribe to hbo but cannot access the on-demand feature without paying more.

maybe this is the only plae that does it like that. hopefully.

speaking of hawaii, they just added the golf/versus HD channel and our local PBS.

The On Demand feature offers just a small percentage of a channel's entire programming lineup.
Sorry Dave, I should have quote this little bit as well. This is the main reason I don't like On Demand, we will not get as much programming as we would from a 24 hour network. Plus the treat that they could always start charging you every time you want to watch a certain show. On Demand makes me nervous because I think the cable operators are only seeing is dollar signs.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/twtmc061707.htm

News
Time Warner Adds Movie Channel HD in Staten Island
The cable operator realigns its high-def lineup.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (June 17, 2007) -- Time Warner Cable has added The Movie Channel HD to its high-def lineup in Staten Island.

The channel, a high-def simulcast of the standard TMC, was added on June 14 as part of a realignment of Time Warner's HD lineup there.

TMC HD is now channel 778 on Time Warner Cable in Staten Island.

There is no word that Time Warner has added TMC HD to any other market. The cable operator has a policy of negotiating the rights to carry a channel and then allowing the local system to decide if and when to add it.

A random check this morning of several Time Warner Cable lineups across the country did not show TMC HD being available besides in Staten Island.

The Movie Channel HD, a sister network of Showtime, this month is playing such movies as Four Brothers, Bad News Bears (2005) and Happy Endings.

Sorry Dave, I should have quote this little bit as well. This is the main reason I don't like On Demand, we will not get as much programming as we would from a 24 hour network. Plus the treat that they could always start charging you every time you want to watch a certain show. On Demand makes me nervous because I think the cable operators are only seeing is dollar signs.I see your point. I may be wrong (I don't use the OnDemand much cause they aren't currently HD) but doesn't HBO/CineMax OnDemand channels (&Showtime too) pretty much have everything that they are currently running on the linear channels? I used to "catch up" on some of their series that way before I got a cable supplied DVR.

As I write this, I am at our daughter's house in Maryland and they have Comcast. Comcast has lots of stuff on "OnDemand" in HD (and lots more HD channels than TW does). Unfortunately, from a technical and support standpoint - Comcast sucks too.

The reality is that TWC has invested a ton of money in ON Demand in the last 10 years. It was TWC's answer to the rental market and the internet. The problem is, while people are happy to use ON Demand when its free (or bundled with a network like HBO), they are far less likely to pay the $3.95 fee. I don't have the numbers, but my guess is that it hasn't paid off as planned.

Unfortunately, TWC hasn't given up on getting a return on its investment with ON Demand. The same people that pushed it are now trying to make sure it pays off. Getting HBO to put its planned HD network's content on ON Demand would be a coup. I wouldn't be surprised if HBO/TWC would want to charge extra for this feature.

Also, TWC's prefernce to have it ON Demand says volumes about TWC's future bandwidth situation even with the adoption of SDV. I think some are beginning to question whether SDV will really improve the bandwidth situation, particularly if TWC wants to keep its current analog lineup intact.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, TWC's focus on On Demand has put it seriously behind in other areas, like HD. ON Demand does nothing for HD sports and that is the driving force behind a large percentage of HD viewers. Even with HD movies available for a fee with On Demnand, the early adotpers would rather purchase an HDDVD or BD than pay to watch a bandwidth starved ON Demand presentation.

I see your point. I may be wrong (I don't use the OnDemand much cause they aren't currently HD) but doesn't HBO/CineMax OnDemand channels (&Showtime too) pretty much have everything that they are currently running on the linear channels? I used to "catch up" on some of their series that way before I got a cable supplied DVR.

As I write this, I am at our daughter's house in Maryland and they have Comcast. Comcast has lots of stuff on "OnDemand" in HD (and lots more HD channels than TW does). Unfortunately, from a technical and support standpoint - Comcast sucks too.
Series, maybe, but certainly not all the movies. Either way, OnDemand only is a sleasy way to do it. It's a nice supplement, but should never be a replacement for a mainstream channel.

That's like making car payments, but you don't get to park the car in your driveway. Instead, they bring it when you call for it. The problem is, how long until they start charging you extra for that service? Not only that, since HBO wants to put extra copy "protection" on OnDemand material, it might be like finding out your car radio or heated seats have been disable on that new car.

I think some are beginning to question whether SDV will really improve the bandwidth situation, particularly if TWC wants to keep its current analog lineup intact.That really doesn't make sense to me. Why would TW's desire to keep the current analog lineup intact make SDV less able to improve the bandwidth situation? One would think that if the available bandwidth is limited (as it will be if they keep the analog line up), that SDV would make more sense as it effectively makes more HD choices available in the limited bandwidth remaining.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, TWC's focus on On Demand has put it seriously behind in other areas, like HD. ON Demand does nothing for HD sports and that is the driving force behind a large percentage of HD viewers. Even with HD movies available for a fee with On Demnand, the early adotpers would rather purchase an HDDVD or BD than pay to watch a bandwidth starved ON Demand presentation.Agree with you here. In may area, so far, the TW HD OnDemand PPV choices have been pretty poor. Plus there is the issue of release date. With Blu-Ray and HD-DVD rentals now available from Netflix and Blockbuster On-Line, the earlier release dates of the DVDs compared to 2-3 months later on PPV will still drive this (by the way, how is the SD "OnDemand" PPV market doing vs Netflix?). Then on-line downloading have got to play into it.

That really doesn't make sense to me. Why would TW's desire to keep the current analog lineup intact make SDV less able to improve the bandwidth situation? One would think that if the available bandwidth is limited (as it will be if they keep the analog line up), that SDV would make more sense as it effectively makes more HD choices available in the limited bandwidth remaining.



I'm speculating a bit, and I admit I am combining to separate issues to some extent. Moving the analog stations to digital obviously saves alot of bandwidth without the need for SDV, but it also means that any additional savings on these channels from SDV is not a possibility.

SDV depends upon the premise that, in any particular market, viewers tend to watch the same programming and the outliers are evenly distributed across the marketplace. But that isn't how it works in practice. The problem comes up when analog/HD viewership is unevenly distributed.

The HD crowd tends to be grouped in the same geographic areas (the more money one has, the more likely they are to have an HDTV, and the more likely they are to live in the same neighborhood). HD people also tend to watch HD programming rather than the analog programming on expanded basic. So, when you only have 15 or so HD channels, one particular neighborhood might be watching a high percentage of these HD stations at the same time. TWC then has to devote more bandwidth to SDV to meet the demand of the one neighborhood. If the concentration of HD viewership is large enough, then there might not be any bandwidth savings from SDV whatsoever. IF, however, TWC were to put some or all of its analog stations on digital, and then SDV the vast majority of its stations, the geographic effect of having concentrated HDTV viewers is diminshed (bandwidth in the upscale neighborhoods goes to the HD stations, while bandwidth in the other neighborhoods goes to the former anlog stations).

To say it another way, if 80% of the people are on analog, and 20% on HD/digital across the entire market, then SDV has the potential to work well. But, again, in practice, thats not what is happening. Take for example a market consisting of 10 neighborhoods. If 8 of those neighborhoods are 90% analog and 10% HD/digital, SDV works very well in those neighborhoods (considering none of the analog stations are on SDV). However, 2 of the 10 neighborhoods are in the upscale development. 70% of those people have HDTVs and 30% have analog. Now its the analog stations that should be on SDV, with the majority of the bandwidth going to SDV for the HD channels. But that can't work unless the analog stations are put on digital across all 10 neighborhoods.

The bottom line is that cable companies are going to have to free up more bandwidth for SDV sooner or later. Putting all new HD stations on SDV may NOT solve the bandwidth problem.

EDIT: Added NOT in the last sentance.

Putting all new HD stations on SDV may solve the bandwidth problem.
Which appears to be what is happening so what's the problem? Comcast is now talking about 800 HD channels (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Says-800-HD-Channels-Coming-84793).

catch HBO's all-new episode of:

CATHOUSE SEASON TWO 16: NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&ID=116632). :rolleyes:

I seem to recall they did a season 2 about 3 years ago.

I despise on demand channels and that doesn't count as adding an HD channel in my book. If VOD is the future of HD on cable then that will be the fastest way to push me back to satellite.

And don't we have pretty good evidence that they consider every movie playing on VOD as another HD channel?

i'll tell you what i don't like about hbo on-demand here in hawaii. THEY MAKE YOU PAY EXTRA FOR IT!

i subscribe to hbo but cannot access the on-demand feature without paying more.

maybe this is the only plae that does it like that. hopefully.

speaking of hawaii, they just added the golf/versus HD channel and our local PBS.

Yes and no. Way back here, I think the deal is if you subscribe to two or more premiums, their VOD channel comes free. Except for Starz, while they have one, TWC refuses to carry it.

I see your point. I may be wrong (I don't use the OnDemand much cause they aren't currently HD) but doesn't HBO/CineMax OnDemand channels (&Showtime too) pretty much have everything that they are currently running on the linear channels? I used to "catch up" on some of their series that way before I got a cable supplied DVR.

As I write this, I am at our daughter's house in Maryland and they have Comcast. Comcast has lots of stuff on "OnDemand" in HD (and lots more HD channels than TW does). Unfortunately, from a technical and support standpoint - Comcast sucks too.

My impression as well Dave, everything from the linear channels (I LIKE that term!). Then again, you do know all the sub channels only serve to carry the same content, just scheduled differently (oh, they make a small claim to being genre specific as well).

However, my experience (and others in my market) is that it's a 60-40 chance you get what you select. This was OK 2-3 years ago (think infrastructure build), but it still happens.

Series, maybe, but certainly not all the movies. Either way, OnDemand only is a sleasy way to do it. It's a nice supplement, but should never be a replacement for a mainstream channel.

Mmmm, since day one I have though VOD was 2 things. One was a method to deliver the content you were already paying for at a time that best suited you. I have NO issue with that at all, I think it is almost a requirement. Of course, the deployment of DVRs do change that picture a bit, but keep in mind it also seems they really only want us to have limited capacity for storing stuff on DVRs (much less what the content guys think!).

Delivering that as part of their basic service ALSO provides them a way to build the infrastructure of what I always refer to as PPV. Exact same technology (there is a payment, but do ANY of you think they aren't keeping track of what stuff is being "ordered" on the VOD channels?).

Comcast is now talking about 800 HD channels (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Says-800-HD-Channels-Coming-84793).

The "800" is counting every HD On Demand selection. Actual channels will be closer to what D*will have. But in any case switched video will be used, along with dropping more analog channels.

For the NY/NJ area, I just lost ESPN HD. I used to subscribe to the DTV Intropak and HD Extra+ (included ESPN HD, HDNet, INHD). Now, TWC says I must pay an add'l $7/month for their DTV starterpak since Intropak is no longer offered and I'll get ESPN HD. When asked about the difference in channels b/w Intropak and Starterpak, they didn't know. Same for the HD Extra+. The call center was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. If I drop HD Extra+ and pay for the Starterpak, I'll gain ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD but lose HDNet, HDNet Movies, INHD, INHD2, & MOJO????

The "800" is counting every HD On Demand selection. Actual channels will be closer to what D*will have. But in any case switched video will be used, along with dropping more analog channels.Will we be able to "surf" channels or will SDV be more like the on-Demand stuff? You know:

click... wait... click... wait-some-more... etc.

Will we be able to "surf" channels or will SDV be more like the on-Demand stuff? You know:

click... wait... click... wait-some-more... etc.
As has been stated here earlier SDV channel access is instantaneous and transparent here at TWCSC.

As has been stated here earlier SDV channel access is instantaneous and transparent here at TWCSC.It's pretty clear that "Optivity" will not resist any chance to slam TW.

Agree with you here. In may area, so far, the TW HD OnDemand PPV choices have been pretty poor. Plus there is the issue of release date. With Blu-Ray and HD-DVD rentals now available from Netflix and Blockbuster On-Line, the earlier release dates of the DVDs compared to 2-3 months later on PPV will still drive this (by the way, how is the SD "OnDemand" PPV market doing vs Netflix?). Then on-line downloading have got to play into it.

What is pretty sad is that the Xbox Live marketplace has a better selection of movies in HD at a similar price. And that's coming from a gaming division. TW is in the business of movies and entertainment and they can't compete. Since I hooked up an Xbox 360 I never use TW movies on demand any more. Most of the SD isn't even in widescreen and you still pay DVD rental prices for it.

Xbox Live may not be able to start instantly (but for On Demand that applies quite a lot as well) but at least the content is getting there. And I don't have to subscribe to the HD movies on Demand channel before I can actually pay for the movies! That is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever come across.

If Sony enters the fray with the Playstation Store in September it's going to put TW further behind at their current adoption rate.

And I don't have to subscribe to the HD movies on Demand channel before I can actually pay for the movies! That is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever come across.

This is not the case in South Carolina.

FWIW: movies via Xbox are 720p.

As has been stated here earlier SDV channel access is instantaneous and transparent here at TWCSC.It's pretty clear that "Optivity" will not resist any chance to slam TW.
It's also pretty obvious that I will need a cable box in order to access SDV channels. :rolleyes:

It's also pretty obvious that I will need a cable box in order to access SDV channels. :rolleyes:

Well its not the cable companies fault that your TV maker couldnt make a 2-way capable CableCARD slot so you wouldnt even have this problem...All tv makers made 1-way slots on their TVs and the cableCARD makers went along with that!!

For the NY/NJ area, I just lost ESPN HD. I used to subscribe to the DTV Intropak and HD Extra+ (included ESPN HD, HDNet, INHD). Now, TWC says I must pay an add'l $7/month for their DTV starterpak since Intropak is no longer offered and I'll get ESPN HD. When asked about the difference in channels b/w Intropak and Starterpak, they didn't know. Same for the HD Extra+. The call center was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. If I drop HD Extra+ and pay for the Starterpak, I'll gain ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD but lose HDNet, HDNet Movies, INHD, INHD2, & MOJO????


I think you get a few extra in there, lol.... INHD is MOJO(Same Channel), INHD2 no longer exsists, and UNI HD should be there! I dont know why your area charges you for what you call the "Starterpak", starterpak out here which is just regular HD is totally free, the only time you pay for HD is when you go to what we call the VIP Tier, which gives you MOJO, HD NET, HD MOVIE NET, and UNI HD. O and you pay for pay-per-view in HD too, lol, same price as SD pay-per-view!

Well its not the cable companies fault that your TV maker couldnt make a 2-way capable CableCARD slot so you wouldnt even have this problem...All tv makers made 1-way slots on their TVs and the cableCARD makers went along with that!!The problem is that there were lots of issues that had to be resolved. CableCard 1.0 was the only solution till recently - so there was nothing else the TV makers could do.

There are two problems that need to be resolved here:
1) Two way communication: the ability of the customer owned equipment (TV, STB, DVR, whatever) to communicate with the cable network.
2) Security - the ability to limit what the customer is able to access to what they have paid for.

CableCards address item 2 - not item 1. OCAP addresses item 1.

We are just now starting to see early examples (Samsung) of OCAP enabled sets that have the ability to communicate with cable (and work with SDV).

Well its not the cable companies fault that your TV maker couldnt make a 2-way capable CableCARD slot so you wouldnt even have this problem...All tv makers made 1-way slots on their TVs and the cableCARD makers went along with that!!

The cable companies fought the introduction of cablecard all the way to the mat! They resisted and resisted until they were, finally, compelled to provide for cablecard. Cable companies foresaw a far happier future with the "company box" than they did with cablecard.

Not surprisingly, many cable locals have had a great deal of difficulty making cablecard work for customers. Further, not surprisingly, many customers gave up and accepted the box into their home. Presumably, this pleased cable companies greatly.

The cable companies have had a terrible time approving a two - way card system. Recently, I believe they have made some progress.

When I bought my cablecard set 1 1/2 years ago, I expected the worst after having read about the typical cablecard experience for a year or two. Fortunately, Adelphia, which was on its last legs, made it work on the first try and I was delighted. When our system was brought into TWC, we lost the authorization code for our card a couple of times as TWC worked on the computer program switchover, but it only required a ph******* to restore service.

I love cablecard and I suspect cable will decide to live with the card when it becomes two way. As for me, one way is just fine.

For my piece of that market, there are 2 digital packages, Digital Starter and DTValue. Value is 10 bucks more per month and gets you a ton more channels. As I understand it, ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD are on either package. HDXtra, which I got because it was 5 HD only channels, has eroded to where it only has 3 HD channels (HDNet, HDNet-M, MOJO) and apparently, they "added" a bunch of SD sports channels they used to charge extra for. Do you have DVR service? If so, HDXtra is an additional 5 bucks.

Speaking of cable cards, for the past few years, Samsung had similar models with or without them. I went for the "not" and 6 months later regretted it (when I learned about QAM tuners). For most of their new models, I see NONE being cable card equipped. I wonder why... then I read about installed base of functioning cable cards being a couple of hundred thousand in the WHOLE country.

Then again, it seems those cable card less sets DO have QAM tuners...

Speaking of cable cards, for the past few years, Samsung had similar models with or without them. I went for the "not" and 6 months later regretted it (when I learned about QAM tuners). For most of their new models, I see NONE being cable card equipped. I wonder why... then I read about installed base of functioning cable cards being a couple of hundred thousand in the WHOLE country.

Then again, it seems those cable card less sets DO have QAM tuners...

I got one with the cablecard slot. Once it was set up correctly at TW's end it has worked fine. But we do have a DVR and a surround system so we hardly ever use the cablecard.

The Samsung does have a very nice split screen feature that lets you divide the screen into two equal halves. I can watch something from the DVR in one half and the cablecard in the other half. Because the surround sound system is fed by the DVR I can even hear both sides at the same time, one through the TV speakers and one through the DVR. But so far I haven't really had a need to do that.

The cablecard does let me get the encrypted channels. The new sets that have a QAM tuner without cablecard only give you the unencrypted ones.

Well its not the cable companies fault that your TV maker couldnt make a 2-way capable CableCARD slot so you wouldnt even have this problem...All tv makers made 1-way slots on their TVs and the cableCARD makers went along with that!!Dude... don't go there. The cable MSOs have been whining to the FCC for years about CCs (http://www.azcentral.com/business/consumer/articles/0608biz-cablebox09-ON.html). :rolleyes:

Give me a break... your employer just wants to maintain the "status quo" for as long as possible, this is why FiOS TV will someday be the great alternative for CATV subscribers. ;)

Dude... don't go there. The cable MSOs have been whining to the FCC for years about CCs (http://www.azcentral.com/business/consumer/articles/0608biz-cablebox09-ON.html). :rolleyes:

Give me a break... your employer just wants to maintain the "status quo" for as long as possible, this is why FiOS TV will someday be the great alternative for CATV subscribers. ;)

Can you blame TWC or any other cable company for not promoting CC. The whole idea was great until the cons about the card came out...no 2-way service, different TV brands using different code or programming casuing problems with the card on the system... so many problems. Thats why they fought not to have it, it was going to cause more problems than what was acceptable. We even had a big company meeting over the CC when it was about to come out to show what it can and cant do and the drawbacks... we were told not to push the CC due to the main fact of there being no on sceen guide and no 2-way service. Then later on in the meeting, we were told about in the future about 2-way CC that could be available and that when that time came for 2-way CC and etc, that we would push that dramtically!!

Now... FiOS will defintely be a great alternative to TV... but what makes you think they are going to be the ultimate provider in TV... dude they been doing nothing but phone for many years and internet for awhile now... They are just beginning to figure out the TV world and what needs to be done and etc... also their signal is going to need a box or something to convert the light to RF or something for the TV to understand, so they must need a box or some device to receive channels dont you think?? You arent just going to put the fiber line in the back of your TV and go yay! So then they are going to be just like TWC in the fact they are going to need to creat CC and boxes, only difference between TWC and FiOS, is the company name and who runs it, and the way that signal is fed to the house... Yea fiber is ran to the house, but like I said earlier, there has to be some kind of conversion process to RF or some kind of signal, which TWC already does at the local node. Then if you install FiOS with your regular house wiring, which means a RF signal... then theres no difference with signal quality than with TWC, house wiring could still be bad causing problems!! Most problems people have with their cable is due becuase of the poor house wiring, which is the customers responsibility, and you think Verizon is going to run you new lines to fix that?? They barely run new phone lines for you. At least TWC can put in a new line to some extent to get things going...and the install process for FiOS... 2 days!!! you got to be kidding me...people complain about 4 hour windows for cable guys, which is now 2 in my area, and then FiOS takes 2 days, you gonna be wanting to wait around all day for that?? hehe... Verizon has been dealing with copper forever and now is just starting to deal with Coax, cant wait to see those trouble calls and people crawling back to TWC.. Muahahahahahha

I got one with the cablecard slot. Once it was set up correctly at TW's end it has worked fine. But we do have a DVR and a surround system so we hardly ever use the cablecard.

One advantage you have is the ability to record 2 HD channels and watch a third live on, even a pay extra tier.

A more subtle benefit is that you can record something on the DVR with the second tuner idle, this does minimize any stuttering that typically goes on. AND watch something live off the card (effectively reducing the load on the DVR to as little as possible).

Given this, I HAD decided my next set HAD to have a cable card slot. So I'm "unhappy" that Samsung seems to be dropping them...

Can you blame TWC or any other cable company for not promoting CC. The whole idea was great until the cons about the card came out...no 2-way service, different TV brands using different code or programming casuing problems with the card on the system... so many problems. Thats why they fought not to have it, it was going to cause more problems than what was acceptable. We even had a big company meeting over the CC when it was about to come out to show what it can and cant do and the drawbacks... we were told not to push the CC due to the main fact of there being no on sceen guide and no 2-way service. Then later on in the meeting, we were told about in the future about 2-way CC that could be available and that when that time came for 2-way CC and etc, that we would push that dramtically!!

Now... FiOS will defintely be a great alternative to TV... but what makes you think they are going to be the ultimate provider in TV... dude they been doing nothing but phone for many years and internet for awhile now... They are just beginning to figure out the TV world and what needs to be done and etc... also their signal is going to need a box or something to convert the light to RF or something for the TV to understand, so they must need a box or some device to receive channels dont you think?? You arent just going to put the fiber line in the back of your TV and go yay! So then they are going to be just like TWC in the fact they are going to need to creat CC and boxes, only difference between TWC and FiOS, is the company name and who runs it, and the way that signal is fed to the house... Yea fiber is ran to the house, but like I said earlier, there has to be some kind of conversion process to RF or some kind of signal, which TWC already does at the local node. Then if you install FiOS with your regular house wiring, which means a RF signal... then theres no difference with signal quality than with TWC, house wiring could still be bad causing problems!! Most problems people have with their cable is due becuase of the poor house wiring, which is the customers responsibility, and you think Verizon is going to run you new lines to fix that?? They barely run new phone lines for you. At least TWC can put in a new line to some extent to get things going...and the install process for FiOS... 2 days!!! you got to be kidding me...people complain about 4 hour windows for cable guys, which is now 2 in my area, and then FiOS takes 2 days, you gonna be wanting to wait around all day for that?? hehe... Verizon has been dealing with copper forever and now is just starting to deal with Coax, cant wait to see those trouble calls and people crawling back to TWC.. Muahahahahahha

Cableguy, your honesty makes the point. Cable companies don't want these things to work. They want to rent boxes and be able to sell additional programming upon the passing impulse of the customer. Additional rent money and sales money is a tough thing to give up, so they made a business decision not to work hard to support one-way cablecards (sabotage) while, at the same time, recognizing that they would have to support the two-way card if it finally came into use.

I suspect that cable actually had a two pronged business approach to the matter. First, they could keep the cablecard from working with the hope that regulators and the public would reach the conclusion that cablecards were a dismal technological failure and there was no choice but the box. Second, even if cablecard, eventually, was forced into implementation, there would be so many boxes out there by that time, it would be a very long time before customers would be calling to remove their rented boxes in favor of their new cablecard set.

The government isn't equipped to discipline cable's implementation of cablecard and the companies are well aware of it. This doesn't make it right. Make everybody's cablecard work. Mine does and it is just great.

Now... FiOS will defintely be a great alternative to TV... but what makes you think they are going to be the ultimate provider in TV... dude they been doing nothing but phone for many years and internet for awhile now... They are just beginning to figure out the TV world and what needs to be done and etc...

and yet despite having to build an entirely new system they've implemented better features, speed and channels in far less time than TW has. There is no single TW market that even come close to the FiOS HD package or internet speed.

And yes they still have to fit an optical network box on the wall to convert the signal but until that point it has little interference during the journey. No switches or splitters affecting the signal quality or people in your area stealing bandwidth by attaching their own splitter, which happened to me last week.

Two days for install? No problem. If it gives me fiber optic speed that's a small price to pay. I've waited longer for deliveries. If TW said they could give me 20 non-local HD channels and a 30Mb internet connection they could take two days as well!

Until I see some actual physical progress nationwide from TW, anything they announce or say is just marketing spin. FiOS at least is proving they can do what they say even if it's a slow rollout, but as you said, they are phone company and don't have much experience in this area ... so what's Time Warner Cable's excuse?

Can you blame TWC or any other cable company for not promoting CC. The whole idea was great until the cons about the card came out...no 2-way service, Espouse the company line if you will... its falling on deaf ears. I could care less about TWs on-Demand, PPV or program guide services. different TV brands using different code or programming casuing problems with the card on the system... OK, I'll chalk one up for Time Warner here... as I was personally bit-in-the-a$$ by Panasonic's idiotic enforcement of the CC 1.0 spec. which disabled the digital optical sound out interface of my PDP until they issued a firmware update to resolve the matter. It only took Panasonic (1) year to accomplish this feat. :rolleyes: Now... FiOS will defintely be a great alternative to TV... but what makes you think they are going to be the ultimate provider in TV... No one said it was going to be some kind of panacea... I just want a choice other than my local Time Warner Cable provider... a little competition is a good thing for the subscriber. ;) dude they been doing nothing but phone for many years and internet for awhile now... I've had a lot better service with Verizon's DSL then I ever had with TWs Broadband. :p

Well you all had good responses and I respect that!! I just dont understand why the company I work for takes so long to implement stuff like you guys say... TWC internet will defintely be fast like FiOS, but they are waiting and taking their sweet time to actually do it and waiting till FiOS is actually about to take the customer away before they do something about it!! Makes me mad... but I aint complaining very much for now... I dont pay for my cable anyway since its gratis!! lol i only pay half for digital phone.

What do CC's have to do with "HD on TWC"?

It's a method of delivering HD to TWC customers.

Well you all had good responses and I respect that!! I just dont understand why the company I work for takes so long to implement stuff like you guys say... TWC internet will defintely be fast like FiOS, but they are waiting and taking their sweet time to actually do it and waiting till FiOS is actually about to take the customer away before they do something about it!! Makes me mad... but I aint complaining very much for now... I dont pay for my cable anyway since its gratis!! lol i only pay half for digital phone.

I for one am glad you don't take it personally that a lot of us have built up some real animosity towards TWC. I can remember a time when I used to jump in and defend them when I thought criticism was unfair... not at all any more.

They seem to feel that absent an immediate threat, they have no interest in upgrading services. For me, I think FIOS won't be actually available for quite a while; I would expect at that point the services will be similar for both. BUT, I WILL be switching, mostly because they "screwed" me over too many times.

Fredfa just posted this in Hot off the Press (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10846661&&#post10846661)


The Business of Television
How Time Warner Austin Did Switched Digital
Bowen: Channel Selection Is Key
By Todd Spangler Multichannel News, 6/21/2007

Orlando, Fla. --- Todd Bowen, director of digital systems for Time Warner Cable’s Austin, Texas, division, delivered a key piece of wisdom for those deploying switched digital video: Be sure to get the right channels in the mix.

“The most important decision you’re going to make is which channels to switch,” Bowen said. “If you don’t pick the right channels, it’s going to bite you.”

That’s because if those channels are too popular -- that is, if they’re being watched by someone virtually all of the time -- those will potentially eat up all of the space set aside for the SDV pool, defeating the whole purpose of the technology.

Bowen gave a presentation here at the Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers’ Cable-Tec Expo 2007 on “lessons learned” from his SDV rollout over the past three years.

The MSO initiated its first beta-test in July 2004 in Austin. The division launched SDV systemwide in spring 2006. It now switches 75 standard-definition and eight HD channels, using Scientific Atlanta’s switched-digital servers.

“Before SDV, we were bandwidth-sparse,” Bowen said. Moving to switched digital, he added, “allowed us to launch digital simulcast.”

Time Warner, an early proponent of the technology, is betting big on SDV to let it keep pace on HDTV. It expects to increase the rollout from eight divisions at the end of 2006 to at least one-half of its 23 divisions this year. SDV will let the MSO offer “virtually unlimited” HD capacity, chief operating officer Landel Hobbs said at a Wall Street conference earlier this month.

At the operational level, the key question for Bowen was: Which to switch? He offered a few insights from Austin's experience. First, he said, anything in a tier -- like a sports tier or a non-English-language tier -- is a good candidate, because obviously, not everyone takes that tier of service. Alternate-time-zone feeds and pay-per-view channels are also likely to be among the least-viewed channels.

“Event pay-per-view, sports pay-per-view, that’s low-hanging fruit,” he added. “Those are 8-10 channels that are wasted when there are no events.”

But there are exceptions to the rules. For example, in Austin, the West Coast feed of a certain kids’ channel (“the channel’s company has a large theme park up the road,” Bowen noted) happens to be extremely popular. “It’s the babysitting channel,” he said. “It’s always on.”

Then there are blockbuster PPV events, like high-profile boxing matches. For one such bout recently, Bowen said, customers who subscribed to the event hadn’t followed Time Warner’s instructions to boot up their set-tops to download the SDV client from the SA servers, so they couldn’t tune to the PPV channel. The call center was swamped with irate subscribers. “It was a classic example of, ‘Whoops,’” Bowen said.

Time Warner Austin has since moved its main PPV-events channel back into regular digital broadcast, although Bowen added that other PPV channels work very well in a switched environment.

In the final analysis, in selecting the channels to be switched, “There’s no magic chart that goes, ‘yes-no-yes-no,’” he said. “It’s a case-by-case basis.”

Another of Bowen's findings: Some video with lots of motion, like live sporting events, needs more than the 3.75 megabits per second that ordinary SDV streams can comfortably be limited to. “Some channels take up six, seven, eight megabits, so rather than rate-shape those, we take up two channels -- 7.5 megabits -- so we don’t have video issues,” Bowen said.

To offer the 75 SD and eight HD channels in the switched group, Time Warner Austin dedicated eight quadrature-amplitude-modulation channels for SDV. “We put [the QAMs] on the high end of the spectrum, adjacent to VOD,” Bowen said.

He added that he doesn’t let QAM utilization for SDV rise more than 70%. If usage is consistently around that much for a given service group, he said, his team will reconfigure the group or do a node split to minimize the chance that SDV channels will be blocked.

All things considered, Time Warner Austin encountered relatively few customer-service issues with the SDV rollout, according to Bowen, who added, “We thought there would be 20,000-30,000 service calls in Austin, but we didn’t have that at all.”

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6454447

Also from Multichannel News and the SCTE Conference:

Cox To Add 50 HD Channels By Years End (http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=micrositeArticle&industryid=47488&articleid=CA6453819) and 100 by 2009

So the question is: If COX has committed to this, why doesn't TW?

Well you all had good responses and I respect that!! I just dont understand why the company I work for takes so long to implement stuff like you guys say... TWC internet will defintely be fast like FiOS, but they are waiting and taking their sweet time to actually do it and waiting till FiOS is actually about to take the customer away before they do something about it!! Makes me mad... but I aint complaining very much for now... I dont pay for my cable anyway since its gratis!! lol i only pay half for digital phone.So when will Time Warner provide support for DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) & Interactive Television to Integrate Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP) (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104590&modelNo=Content01072007024440900&surfModel=Content01072007024440900)?

So when will Time Warner provide support for DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) & Interactive Television to Integrate Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP) (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104590&modelNo=Content01072007024440900&surfModel=Content01072007024440900)?

I thought the ill-fated and reviled (at least by the residents of Lincoln, Nebraska) Mystro Navigator was supposed to do that. From what I understand, they've had to retain some folks from Aptiv who wrote the "Passport" software to bail them out on that debacle.

I thought the ill-fated and reviled (at least by the residents of Lincoln, Nebraska) Mystro Navigator was supposed to do that. From what I understand, they've had to retain some folks from Aptiv who wrote the "Passport" software to bail them out on that debacle.Not DCAS. That is apparently some time off - and it is not simply a TW issue either. They would LOVE to be able to deploy DCAS (cause they won't have to have CableCard boxes).

Not DCAS. That is apparently some time off - and it is not simply a TW issue either. They would LOVE to be able to deploy DCAS (cause they won't have to have CableCard boxes).History tells us it won't be anytime soon. :mad:

Most likely there will be no really significant changes made to the current form of DRM authorization with CATV providers until sometime after the:

February 17, 2009 — Analog television broadcasts are scheduled to end in the United States, as the Federal Communications Commission will require all stations to send their signals digitally. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009#February)

History tells us it won't be anytime soon. :mad: The last I heard it was sometime next year. But why should that make you mad - other than your purpose in life seems to be to rant and rave against cable in general and TW in particular? :cool:

Most likely there will be no really significant changes made to the current form of DRM authorization with CATV providers until sometime after the:

February 17, 2009 — Analog television broadcasts are scheduled to end in the United States, as the Federal Communications Commission will require all stations to send their signals digitally. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009#February)That's total BS! You have no basis for this (and a lot of other claims as well). There is absolutely no connection between DRM on CATV and the Analog Shut-Off. It looks like you taking another opportunity to make outrageous statements (all the while hiding behind some screen name ;) )!!!

The last I heard it was sometime next year. But why should that make you mad - other than your purpose in life seems to be to rant and rave against cable in general and TW in particular? :cool:

That's total BS! You have no basis for this (and a lot of other claims as well). There is absolutely no connection between DRM on CATV and the Analog Shut-Off. It looks like you taking another opportunity to make outrageous statements (all the while hiding behind some screen name ;) )!!!What can I say, I'm old enough to know from past experience that quite often my assumptions prove to be correct. ;)

If the Cable MSOs want to support OCAP during 2008 I'm already on board, because then I might buy some new BIG boy “toy” like a Pioneer 60” 1080p PDP. :)

Also from Multichannel News and the SCTE Conference:

Cox To Add 50 HD Channels By Years End (http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=micrositeArticle&industryid=47488&articleid=CA6453819) and 100 by 2009

So the question is: If COX has committed to this, why doesn't TW?

It would seem that TWC is going to do as good as the Cox committment:
Cox quote: “I’ve asked Chris [Bowick, chief technology officer of Cox] and his team to find the capacity to offer 50 HD channels by the end of this year, going into 2008,” Esser said. “Whether we do or don’t offer that many channels, I want to have the capacity to do that.”

"Capacity" is not the same as "offering."

Beside that, I cannot think of even 5 existing national HD channels that I just can't wait to receive. Can you? Television is in desperate need of new HD material or we will just end up with more TNT - type HD channels that, primarily, feature reruns. Even the somewhat vaunted NFL Channel offers only something like 24 - 30 hours per year of live regular season football. Do you want to tie up bandwidth with something like that? I don't and I like football a whole lot.

Beside that, I cannot think of even 5 existing national HD channels that I just can't wait to receive. Can you? Television is in desperate need of new HD material or we will just end up with more TNT - type HD channels that, primarily, feature reruns. Even the somewhat vaunted NFL Channel offers only something like 24 - 30 hours per year of live regular season football. Do you want to tie up bandwidth with something like that? I don't and I like football a whole lot.

As a TWC customer, I can think of 4 right off the top of my head: Cinemax-HD, Starz-HD, NGC-HD, and Versus/Golf. All are available right now, a couple of 'em have been for years, and TWC is currently "offering" none of them.

Beside that, I cannot think of even 5 existing national HD channels that I just can't wait to receive. Can you?

Not all of these are existing, but all should be here by the fall:

ESPN2HD, NatGeoHD, ScienceHD, TLCHD, AnimalHD, HGTVHD, FoodHD, DisneyHD, NFLHD, Big10HD, A&EHD, VersusHD,...

As a TWC customer, I can think of 4 right off the top of my head: Cinemax-HD, Starz-HD, NGC-HD, and Versus/Golf. All are available right now, a couple of 'em have been for years, and TWC is currently "offering" none of them.

AMEN. I'm giving TWC Columbus the rest of the Summer to add these. If they do not, I'm taking my business elsewhere, I'm sick of them.

As a TWC customer in SW Ohio, I'm waiting on Big10HD, ESPN2HD, FSN-Ohio-HD (for college football and basketball), MHD, NatGeoHD, Cinemax-HD, and NBC-HD (WDTN). I'll give TWC til the start of the football season. Ohio State's first two football games are scheduled to be on BigTenHD -- goodbye TWC if it isn't carried by the start of the season.

Beside that, I cannot think of even 5 existing national HD channels that I just can't wait to receive. Can you? Sure: In my case:
CineMax HD
Starz HD
TLC HD
National Geographic HD
The Food Network HD

If the Cable MSOs want to support OCAP during 2008 I'm already on boardI thought we were talking about DRM (you said: "Most likely there will be no really significant changes made to the current form of DRM authorization with CATV providers until sometime after the: February 17, 2009 — Analog television broadcasts are scheduled to end in the United States, as the Federal Communications Commission will require all stations to send their signals digitally".
You apparently do not realize that OCAP IS NOT related to DRM (or DCAS). The only likely relationship is that OCAP will be the platform that DCAS will be deployed on.

“I’ve asked Chris and his team to find the capacity to offer 50 HD channels by the end of this year, going into 2008,” Esser said. “Whether we do or don’t offer that many channels, I want to have the capacity to do that.”

"Capacity" is not the same as "offering."Will that be 50 channels of full HD in 720p/1080i 16:9 format or predominately consist of 480i unconverted, "Dr. Phil," HD-lite programming with those [b]black bars to each side? :p

I thought we were talking about DRM (you said: "Most likely there will be no really significant changes made to the current form of DRM authorization with CATV providers until sometime after the: February 17, 2009 — Analog television broadcasts are scheduled to end in the United States, as the Federal Communications Commission will require all stations to send their signals digitally".
You apparently do not realize that OCAP IS NOT related to DRM (or DCAS). The only likely relationship is that OCAP will be the platform that DCAS will be deployed on.Whatever form these authorization protocols ultimately evolve to inconsequential to me. What I really want to know is when can I expect to have an opportunity to buy two-way interactive, cable compatible, plug & play, A/V digital devices (almost anything other than an SA8300) & subscribe to only the services that I am interested in?

Whatever form these authorization protocols ultimately evolve to inconsequential to me. What I really want to know is when can I expect to have an opportunity to buy two-way interactive, cable compatible, plug & play, A/V digital devices (almost anything other than an SA8300) & have to subscribe to only the services that I am interested in?
Please: If you don't know what you are talking about - then don't

Please: If you don't know what you are talking about - then don'tSo what, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) is wrong now too?

Dude... I build & administer enterprise networks (remember my "builds a better box" motto?).

What do you do, adjust the picture settings on somebody's TV? :D

So what, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) is wrong now too?

Dude... I build & administer enterprise networks (remember my "builds a better box" motto?).

What do you do, adjust the picture settings on somebody's TV? :DActually, I am a retired engineering manager and I happen to know the difference between OCAP and DRM - you apparently don't, but continue to spout off anyway.

Being an IT tech does not mean that you know everything (but I've met some that seem to think they do).

So what does the Wikipedia link mean anyway?

Wow... should I let you two get your own room and box it out!!?

Wow... should I let you two get your own room and box it out!!?Maybe we can tune it in on “HD PPV” for 50 bucks are so… :rolleyes:
We can call it the Empire State Knock Down :p .
Nah… never mind... that channel is off the air. :rolleyes:

News
Cable TV & HD: Put Up Or Shut Up!
Phillip Swann, president of TVPredictions.com, says cable TV operators talk "HD capacity" while DIRECTV talks real HD channels.
By Allison Moore
HD Diva

Washington, D.C. (June 21, 2007) -- DIRECTV says it will offer 100 High-Definition channels by year's end -- and it has revealed dozens of those channels including CNN, TBS, USA Network and 11 HBO/Cinemax networks.

But Phillip Swann, president of TVPredictions.com, says cable TV operators are just offering vague promises about having the "capacity" to offer more high-def channels this year.

In a new video posted at TVPredictions.com, Swanni says cable TV needs "to put up or shut up" and tell high-def owners exactly which channels they will add and when.

"DIRECTV says they will have 100 High-Definition channels by year's end, but they're backing that claim up. They're telling us which channels they will have," Swanni says in the video. "But what are the cable TV operators doing? They're talking capacity! They say they will have the same HDTV capacity as DIRECTV!...But they're not guaranteeing they will have a certain number of channels or when they will add more channels."

Time Warner and Comcast have said repeatedly over the last several weeks that they will be able to meet DIRECTV's 100 channel high-def lineup by expanding its system space.

However, the cable operators have been tight-lipped on when more high-def channels will be added and what they will be.

Cox Communications President Pat Esser said yesterday that he hopes his cable TV service will have the "capacity" for 50 HDTV channels by year's end. But he added that he wasn't promising that Cox would actually offer 50 high-def channels. He also did not reveal any new channels.

"Enough of this capacity talk," Swanni says in the video. "Tell us which channels you will add!"

http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannicabletext.htm

From an article on FiOS at CNET (http://news.com.com/Verizons+fiber-optic+payoff+-+page+2/2100-1034_3-6192440-2.html?tag=st.num) :

In May, Comcast CEO Brian Roberts demonstrated broadband download speeds of up to 100 megabits per second. New technologies such as Docsis 3.0, a high-speed data-transmission standard for cable, will help make this kind of capacity a reality. The transition from analog TV to digital broadcasting, which the government has mandated must be completed by February 17, 2009, will also help boost capacity for cable operators. Today about 60 percent of a cable operator's capacity is used to carry analog channels.

"Cable is going to unleash a tsunami of bandwidth in 2009 when analog is retired," Zachary Investment's Comack said. "Verizon will be able to compete because it has fiber. But the cable guys will crush AT&T, because they just won't be able to match them on bandwidth."


so now we have to wait until 2009 before the playing field is leveled? Assuming the date isn't relaxed of course. By which time if SDV doesn't make the difference the claims promise, TWC will be even further behind. Especially if you read another part of that article which mentions that Verizon is already upgrading their network for more capacity.

Actually, I am a retired engineering managerWell, I envy you there and given your opinion of me... I'm looking forward to my 2nd career, which I assume you will agree I'm well qualified for... working as a "greeter" at Wal*Mart! :D and I happen to know the difference between OCAP and DRMDoesn't OCAP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCable_Application_Platform) combined with DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) when used as a methodology to administer DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management) for services provided to CATV subscribers kind of fall into the same category?

All I really want is to turn my display on & watch a little HDTV - (minus) the SA8300 of course. ;)

links to WikipediA (http://www.wikipedia.org/) provided for the edification of those who may not already know these things

Maybe we can tune it in on “HD PPV” for 50 bucks are so… :rolleyes:
We can call it the Empire State Knock Down :p .
Nah… never mind... that channel is off the air. :rolleyes:If there are any $ in it for me & TW... I'll sign up! :)

I'll even let Mr. Dave Hancock "out-me" publicly on the Internet, like he's dying to do. :p

Why do I suddenly feel like a "gay" middle aged man ("not that there's anything wrong with that") (http://www.tv.com/seinfeld/the-outing/episode/2297/summary.html) still hiding in his closet? :D

All I really want is to turn my display on & watch a little HDTV - (minus) the SA8300 of course. ;)

The other choice being to turn your display on and watch a lot of HDTV with the SA8300 and SDV. I have 3 SDV channels already.

The other choice being to turn your display on and watch a lot of HDTV with the SA8300 and SDV. I have 3 SDV channels already.
Sorry, but as i said before I'm done paying TW $20 per month to rent a 4 (or is it a 3?) year-old STB.

and truth be told, that number is a lot closer to "reality" than the $10 figure that Mr. Hancock likes to bandy about (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/bandy+about).

thanks for confirming that you were playing loose with the numbers as the DVR is $9.95 month.

I'll even let Mr. Dave Hancock "out-me" publicly on the Internet, like he's dying to do. :p

I have no idea of who you are (I have a pretty good idea of what). So other than point out that you are basically hiding behind "optivity".

So what, Wikipedia is wrong now too? Doesn't OCAP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCable_Application_Platform) combined with DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) when used as a methodology to administer DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management) for services provided to CATV subscribers kind of fall into the same category?Well, Wikipedia is not always correct (as anyone can "contribute" to it). But in the cases that you linked THIS TIME, they are correct.

DCAS is a security scheme that is still being worked out. It will depend on OCAP for an operating environment. That does not make OCAP come with DCAS (or any particular security solution). You should understand that.

While the FCC has mandated that as of 7/1/07 cable cannot deploy new STBs with integrated security, they HAVE NOT mandated any particular "solution". The universally accepted initial solution is to deploy STBs with CableCards. There is no OCAP mandate. Cable has been working towards implementing OCAP, but it is clearly not ready for 7/1/07. So what we will see is the roll-out of CC equipped STBs for new installations on 7/1/07 using legacy software. (SARA, Passport or what have you).

But none of this is related to:Most likely there will be no really significant changes made to the current form of DRM authorization with CATV providers until sometime after the:

February 17, 2009 — Analog television broadcasts are scheduled to end in the United States, as the Federal Communications Commission will require all stations to send their signals digitally. Which is what got us going on this particular thing.

Now, anyone reading this "Empire State Knock Down" may wonder what this has to do with "HD on Time Warner Cable". The cable companies have a problem with having enough capacity for additional channels in HD. Most cable companies are moving towards the use of a technology (SDV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video) ) that effectively gives them this capacity. While some of the system software that TW (and others) use, works with SDV, some (the versions of Passport that TW licenses) does not. One of the many objectives of OCAP is to enable SDV. That is the reason that TW is pushing their Navigator as a replacement for their Passport.

I prefer that folks really understand what is going on. I don't participate here looking for opportunities to bash TW.

I prefer that folks really understand what is going on. I don't participate here looking for opportunities to bash TW.

But you DO realize that TWC has made many "decisions" in the past 6-9 months that can very genuinely get people very upset? I sure as hell remember "supporting" their efforts a year ago; I'm NOT going to reiterate it, but many moves later I am very actively mad at what they have done. When it happens that I have an actual choice (when FIOS, licensed and installed on my block) arrives, I'd almost bet you TWC will be vaguely competitive in terms of service and price. BUT I don't soon forget and they will summarily be dismissed by me.

While I'm sure to get castigated for advocating a position like that, it's really the ONLY way as a consumer for me to return all the "favors" they have done for me... all of which where of the "you got no choice, so we're going to take total advantage of that fact." Much like my "decision" to vote with my wallet regarding HD optical discs... I will not touch them until there is ONE clear format AND the price differential between SD and HD discs is nominal.

As a TWC customer, I can think of 4 right off the top of my head: Cinemax-HD, Starz-HD, NGC-HD, and Versus/Golf. All are available right now, a couple of 'em have been for years, and TWC is currently "offering" none of them.

We have 4 of the premium HD channels on my TWC system, but I do not subscribe to them. I would like to have NGC-HD because National Geographic represents quality to me and I would expect some great photography. Versus/Golf has zero significance to me, but I fully appreciate that some people would look forward to having this channel.

Still, those 4 channels don't seem to merit the type of critcism that some folks are registering toward TWC. It isn't as if there are 30 or 40 HD channels out there that we all are lusting for and TWC is ignoring the situation. For the most part, great HD channels that are not already on line do not exist.

TV Predictions is urging Cable to Put Up or Shut Up! (http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannicable062107.htm)

Think TW will listen? (They haven't yet put up several HD networks that they have agreements with - even ones that they own!)

TV Predictions is urging Cable to Put Up or Shut Up! (http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannicable062107.htm)

Think TW will listen? (They haven't yet put up several HD networks that they have agreements with - even ones that they own!)


What networks are you talking about? Every network with an HD feed that is under the Timer Warner cooperate umbrella is currently available nationwide on TWC.

Most of these networks you are thinking of are actually owned by Turner Broadcasting (a subsidiary of Time Warner)... which isn't Time Warner Cable....

Time Warner itself only owns HBO and Cinemax (along with The CW via Warner Bros.) - Currently only HBO and Cinemax are available in HD. (I know some areas don't get CinemaxHD yet for whatever reason... but it's a local reason...)

Turner's TV networks are Boomerang, Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, Headline News, CNN, Turner Classic Movies, TNT (ONLY ONE CURRENTLY IN HD), TBS, and Court TV

Just because there hasn't been an announcement for carriage of the new HD networks that will be launching over the next year, doesn't mean they won't. TWC has a habit of not being very public about additions....

(TWC itself only owns or part-owns regional channels: Capital News 9 · News 8 Austin · News 10 Now · News 14 Carolina · NY1 · R News · Metro Sports · Time Warner Sports 26 · Time Warner Sports Milwaukee · SportsNet New York (part ownership) · Sí TV (investment))

Still, those 4 channels don't seem to merit the type of critcism that some folks are registering toward TWC.

Eh, try living in the markets that barely get double digit HD channels.

Cinemax and Starz have been in HD for years and I've been requesting them for that long. Both are premium (as in, pay extra to receive, which I do) and neither are here.

However I am lucky enough to get MyNetworkTV HD which bounced on the air less than a year ago.

Nope, nothing wrong with that situation at all. :rolleyes:

However I am lucky enough to get MyNetworkTV HD which bounced on the air less than a year ago.

Nope, nothing wrong with that situation at all. :rolleyes:

To be fair - My Network TV isn't a cable channel.
It's represented by a local affiliate in your area that was most likely previously an affiliate of UPN (or possibly The WB)


I'm guessing MyNetwork TV is seen on WRDC-TV in your area.

One should expect every local HD channel available OTA to be available on your local cable system as well.

Was WRDC available in HD on your system while it was still a UPN affiliate? If so... then you ddin't get anything new.......

One should expect every local HD channel available OTA to be available on your local cable system as well.


Not if that one is a TWC customer! Here in Greensboro neither the CW nor MyNTV are on the cable in HD, even though both channels are broadcast as such.

To be fair - My Network TV isn't a cable channel.
It's represented by a local affiliate in your area that was most likely previously an affiliate of UPN (or possibly The WB)


and Sinclair played hardball with TWC for years over carriage of their UPN and WB signals (both HD and SD), yet the moment they resolve an issue they can find the bandwidth to broadcast their signal. And that happened this year. Sinclair held back for years before that.

Meanwhile, the channel they own - Cinemax HD - which was already negotiated elsewhere still hasn't arrived. They obviously had some bandwidth to spare to suddenly carry 2 Sinclair stations at the drop of a signature.

It's not a question of whether it's a cable channel or not, it's a question of prioritizing and use of bandwidth.

Just got an email from TW. Looks like they're trying to get rid of some of their HD-DVR's:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take advantage of our summer special on HD DVRs!

Don't have a digital video recorder? Stop by one of our payment centers by June 26, pick up an HD DVR, and we'll give you HD DVR service free for three months.

You must act quickly, however, because this offer ends Tuesday, June 26.

> Learn more about the HD DVR: http://www.timewarnercable.com/albany/products/hdtv/hddvr.html

> See a map of our payment center locations:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/albany/customer/contactus/default.html

Some restrictions apply. Lease of a digital cable set-top box and remote control and subscription to Time Warner Cable digital cable service required. Available only to Time Warner Cable subscribers in the Capital/Saratoga/Berkshire region.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I already have HD-DVR service with them, but I called anyway to see if I could still get the 3 free months. The guy told me it was only for people who don't currently have a HD-DVR. I was thinking of turning mine in, then signing up for a new one, but that would be too much of a hassle and I still have a few shows recorded that I haven't watched yet. Oh well.

Not if that one is a TWC customer! Here in Greensboro neither the CW nor MyNTV are on the cable in HD, even though both channels are broadcast as such.Which is odd seeing CW is 50% owned by TW! Here in Rochester, the WB HD (and now CW HD) is carried ONLY on TW cable - there is no OTA of CW HD (the local ABC station is carrying the SD CW on a digital sub channel.

I wonder if the issue could be the local OTA station demanding an excessive payment from TW (a la the Sinclair issue in several markets).

One should expect every local HD channel available OTA to be available on your local cable system as well.




No WB/CW network on Time Warner cable in San Diego.

No WB/CW network on Time Warner cable in San Diego.

Like i said... "One Should Expect"....

Which is odd seeing CW is 50% owned by TW! Here in Rochester, the WB HD (and now CW HD) is carried ONLY on TW cable - there is no OTA of CW HD (the local ABC station is carrying the SD CW on a digital sub channel.

I wonder if the issue could be the local OTA station demanding an excessive payment from TW (a la the Sinclair issue in several markets).


Yes Time Warner is 50% owner of the CW - but its up to the owners of the local affiliates to reach deals with the cable providers...

That is where to problems begin for those without your local CW (and My NetworkTV) affiliates in HD

Albany TWC is trying to distribute all their old HD DVRs before the July 1st FCC deadline. The text below was sent via email to Albany TWC customers:

Take advantage of our summer special on HD DVRs!

Don't have a digital video recorder? Stop by one of our payment centers by June 26, pick up an HD DVR, and we'll give you HD DVR service free for three months.

You must act quickly, however, because this offer ends Tuesday, June 26.

Some restrictions apply. Lease of a digital cable set-top box and remote control and subscription to Time Warner Cable digital cable service required. Available only to Time Warner Cable subscribers in the Capital/Saratoga/Berkshire region.

Just got an email from TW. Looks like they're trying to get rid of some of their HD-DVR's:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I already have HD-DVR service with them, but I called anyway to see if I could still get the 3 free months. The guy told me it was only for people who don't currently have a HD-DVR. I was thinking of turning mine in, then signing up for a new one, but that would be too much of a hassle and I still have a few shows recorded that I haven't watched yet. Oh well.


GGGGRRRR I hate that. I absolutely hate when companies reward new customers when I've been paying for years....and it's not just TWC, it's a lot of different businesses.

Albany TWC is trying to distribute all their old HD DVRs before the July 1st FCC deadline. The text below was sent via email to Albany TWC customers:

While it COULD be true this is the one motive, dare I suggest that the real intent is to sign up new customers to a service (DVR) that gives them regular monthly revenue. The way it's priced in my market, it's an additional 20% on top of the most basic digital package.

Cable Television Laboratories, Inc. was formed nearly 20 years ago:

“ Founded in 1988 by members of the cable television industry, Cable Television Laboratories, Inc. (CableLabs®) is a nonprofit research and development consortium that is dedicated to pursuing new cable telecommunications technologies and to helping its cable operator members integrate those technical advancements into their business objectives.

CableLabs serves the cable television industry by:
researching and identifying new broadband technologies;
authoring specifications;
certifying products; and
disseminating information.
CableLabs benefits the cable television industry and consumers by:
enabling interoperability among different cable systems;
facilitating retail availability of cable modems and advanced services; and
helping cable operators deploy innovative broadband technologies.
CableLabs is funded by the monthly subscription fees paid by members as well as by testing-related fees. Cable operators from around the world are eligible to become members.”

And it seems to me we are further away from an Open Cable environment than ever.DCAS is a security scheme that is still being worked out. It will depend on OCAP for an operating environment. That does not make OCAP come with DCAS (or any particular security solution). You should understand that. Our CATV providers would probably like nothing more than to $hit-can all the progress that has been made to this point in order to maintain a proprietary lock on their networks, which is why I take every opportunity these days to:

participate here looking for opportunities to bash TW.while I expose the fallacy of your position.I prefer that folks really understand what is going on. Which is quite humorous when discussing Time Warner who can build huge networks and route IP world-wide but has never been able to master the technical nuances for doing a field install of an itsy bitsy CableCARD. :rolleyes:

CableCards: We should NOT give up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=557810)

Which is quite humorous when discussing Time Warner who can build huge networks and route IP world-wide but has never been able to master the technical nuances for doing a field install of an itsy bitsy CableCARD. :rolleyes:




It's been sometime since I looked at cablecard specs, but aren't they still a one way device?

When I did investigate cablecards they seemed to be a classic example of something designed by too many that, ultimately, does very little for very few.

What's changed?

I personally think DVRs are a great idea, and has made a very positive change in how we view TV.

It's been sometime since I looked at cablecard specs, but aren't they still a one way device?

When I did investigate cablecards they seemed to be a classic example of something designed by too many that, ultimately, does very little for very few.

What's changed?

I personally think DVRs are a great idea, and has made a very positive change in how we view TV.

Cablecards are, indeed, still a one way device. That is what I want. This allows me to view the channels I have purchased. Perfect! If for some reason that I cannot now imagine, I want to be able to order up pay per view, I will rent a two way box. One way cablecard is great. Fortunately, my local TWC (Adelphia) actually knew how to install one successfully.

Cablecards are, indeed, still a one way device. That is what I want. This allows me to view the channels I have purchased. Perfect! If for some reason that I cannot now imagine, I want to be able to order up pay per view, I will rent a two way box. One way cablecard is great. Fortunately, my local TWC (Adelphia) actually knew how to install one successfully.

Arre you able to view all the free VOD channels? There is quite a bit of content on our system.

Also, how do you record HD channels for later viewing? For me being able to time shift and skip commercials on HD shows is a huge plus.

Just think cablecards are too little too late.

Fortunately, my local TWC (Adelphia) actually knew how to install one successfully.Their success may also be due to your particular display. The problem that cable companies have with either CableCards or clear QAM tuners is that the different set manufacturers (and even models withing a brand) have different set-up procedures. The cable techs are supposed to know their systems, but really are not in a position to master all the variations in set-up procedures that are out there.

Arre you able to view all the free VOD channels? There is quite a bit of content on our system.

Also, how do you record HD channels for later viewing? For me being able to time shift and skip commercials on HD shows is a huge plus.

Just think cablecards are too little too late.


1. There is no way to view free VOD channels.

2. I currently record, via firewire, from my cablecard to D-VHS as well as a Toshiba Symbio HD-DVR.

3. Cablecards have been around for a few years now. If the cable companies hadn't fought it every step of the way, they wouldn't be facing the upcoming problems after July 1, 2007 where every STB deployed, as a practical matter, must include a cablecard.

Cablecards are, indeed, still a one way device. That is what I want. This allows me to view the channels I have purchased. Perfect! If for some reason that I cannot now imagine, I want to be able to order up pay per view, I will rent a two way box. One way cablecard is great. Fortunately, my local TWC (Adelphia) actually knew how to install one successfully.While my local cable TV company provides adequate support for its CableCARD service, which is what I pay them to do, the horror stories still abound regarding customer problems using one-way CableCARD product(s). A technology that was rolled-out many years ago. :rolleyes:

The point is, CATV subscribers who do not receive competent service for a product they pay good money to TW/Comcast for the privilege of using, is primarily due to the insufficient financial incentive (or penalty) for the Cable MSO. ;)

It's been sometime since I looked at cablecard specs, but aren't they still a one way device?

When I did investigate cablecards they seemed to be a classic example of something designed by too many that, ultimately, does very little for very few.

What's changed?

I personally think DVRs are a great idea, and has made a very positive change in how we view TV.

The cablecard itself has always been a two way device, but there have been very few implementations of receivers that use the two way ability. http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

That should change with the next version of cablecards and uupdated specs and licensing agreements.

Bernie

Arre you able to view all the free VOD channels? There is quite a bit of content on our system.

Also, how do you record HD channels for later viewing? For me being able to time shift and skip commercials on HD shows is a huge plus.

Just think cablecards are too little too late.

On our service there isn't anything worth watching on free VOD, even though we have a cable company supplied DVR (in addition to a cablecard).

HD channels can, of course, be recorded with the Tivo Series 3 which uses cablecards. The Series 3 has two tuners so it uses two cablecards. Like previous Tivos the Series 3 can record two programs at the same time while playing back a third, previously recorded program. The problem is that the Series 3 was far two expensive when it was announced, remains expensive, and the Tivo subscription fee is generally higher the monthly fee for a cable company supplied DVR.

Tivo has announced plans to come out with a lower priced HD capable DVR. We'll also have to see if and when new, purchasable DVR's hit the market after the July mandate takes effect. That is when new DVR's must use cablecards (or an equivalent if there were such a thing).

Bernie

On our service there isn't anything worth watching on free VODThat is not what Time Warner wants you to believe. :D

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/HBO-on-Demand.jpg

That is not what Time Warner wants you to believe. :D

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/HBO-on-Demand.jpg

Ummm, HBO is not free where we live. :)

It (HBO) isn't free where optivity lives either - but he will always take the opportunity to trash TW when he can! ;)

I think what Bernie33 meant were the stuff line CNN On Demand, Food Network OD, etc. Besides, who cares about OnDemand unless it is HD! But, I do know that some Comcast systems have a fair amount of free OnDemand HD stuff.

Cablecards are, indeed, still a one way device. That is what I want. This allows me to view the channels I have purchased. Perfect! If for some reason that I cannot now imagine, I want to be able to order up pay per view, I will rent a two way box. One way cablecard is great. Fortunately, my local TWC (Adelphia) actually knew how to install one successfully.

I have one TV with a CableCard, and one with a HD DVR set top box. I have to go the HD DVR set top box to view the program guide to see what's on before I can watch anything on the TV with the CableCard, UNLESS it's an "appointment" viewing. The TV with the CableCard is in fact the bedroom set, which is used for "habit" viewing.

CableCard has only one real benefit, it's a cheap option for a TV in a second position in the household.

Will there ever be some other DVR to usurp the 'mighty' (albeit circa 10/04) SA8300? :confused:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/sa8300hd-dvr.jpg

$20 per month for TWs SA8300+DVR service for 36 months = $720 :eek: ... more than a TiVo ;)

Will there ever be some other DVR to usurp the 'mighty' (albeit circa 10/04) SA8300? :confused:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/sa8300hd-dvr.jpg

$20 per month for TWs SA8300+DVR service for 36 months = $720 :eek: ... more than a TiVo ;)

Not when you include the Tivo subscription,

Not when you include the Tivo subscription,It's not about the money but having some other choice.

Will there ever be some other DVR to usurp the 'mighty' (albeit circa 10/04) SA8300? :confused:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/sa8300hd-dvr.jpg

$20 per month for TWs SA8300+DVR service for 36 months = $720 :eek: ... more than a TiVo ;)
Answered you own question. All you have to do is pay the price (+12.95/month).

And not subject to some cable provider's whimsy regarding what channels get moved to SDV?

And not subject to some cable provider's whimsy regarding what channels get moved to SDV?If we want more HD channels (the subject of this thread - not your "twisted" opinion of the 8300) we will need SDV.

THE problem is that TW hasn't yet been motivated to add significantly more HD channels - SDV or Not (but we know that you don't particularly want to stick to the subject - don't we?).

If we want more HD channels (the subject of this thread - not your "twisted" opinion of the 8300) we will need SDV.

THE problem is that TW hasn't yet been motivated to add significantly more HD channels - SDV or Not (but we know that you don't particularly want to stick to the subject - don't we?).

I want more HD channels. I also do not want our laws violated. If the adoption of SDV has the effect of requiring people to get a TWC STB in order to receive programming, then SDV violates the integration ban and should be halted by the FCC.

The fact of the matter is other companies have done fine at allocating bandwidth to meet the increased demands of HD programming. Comcast just went all digital in Chicago, freeing up space for hundreds of HD stations without the need for SDV.

If we want more HD channels (the subject of this thread - not your "twisted" opinion of the 8300) we will need SDV.

In the last few minutes it's been about the DVR, then the money, then the channels. Simply just a whiner.

If the adoption of SDV has the effect of requiring people to get a TWC STB in order to receive programming, then SDV violates the integration ban and should be halted by the FCC.The integration ban relates to security (the decrytping mechanism cannot be in the box) and not to two-way communications (which is what SDV uses).

However, OCAP does promise that things like SDV and OnDemand will work with consumer owned equipment. While still in the last stages of development, some examples of OCAP based equipment has started to appear from Samsung (and at least one TW division does work with this equipment.

I'm very interested in the Comcast/Chicago "experiment" - particularly how they are handling low cost ("lifeline") service and multiple analog sets in a household (I have 7 analog sets in the house + 4 VCRs & 1 DVD-R, all with analog only tuners). From what I have seen, it certainly looks like a "gutsy move" on their part.

The integration ban relates to security (the decrytping mechanism cannot be in the box) and not to two-way communications (which is what SDV uses).


What is the purpose of the integration ban? Its purpose is to encourage competition in the STB market so people aren't forced to rent a box from their cable company. SDV is an end run around the integration ban.

If we want more HD channels...we will need SDV.
Or reduction of the analog tier, or MPEG-4, or an upgrade of the system to 750MHz or 1GHz, or...

There are plenty of options for increasing bandwidth other than SDV, and all the other options I mentioned above GUARANTEE a bandwidth increase. SDV can easily be maxed out if all the SDV channels are being watched at once, thereby gaining nothing.

What is the purpose of the integration ban? Its purpose is to encourage competition in the STB market so people aren't forced to rent a box from their cable company. SDV is an end run around the integration ban.You are right on that (in terms of the purpose), but alas, the FCC simply did not pass their regulations that way.

The FCC has a history of reacting very slowly to mandates for change*. The real problem here is that they did not foresee the needs for two-way communication when they essentially jammed CableCards into existence.

IF the FCC were to take action, it would take so long to get things going that the "solution" (OCAP) would already be in place. As it is, they have been asking for updates on OCAP progress.

*Witness this whole business. Section 629 of the Communications Act (passed in 1996), which is titled “Competitive Availability of Navigation Devices, requires the Commission to:
adopt regulations to assure the commercial availability, to consumers of
multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel
video programming systems, of converter boxes, interactive communications
equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access, multichannel video
programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming
systems, from manufacturers, retailers, and other vendors not affiliated with any
multichannel video programming distributor.It has taken the FCC (thanks, some will note, to delays by the cable industry) to get to the point where cable companies have to use CableCards in their boxes. And that is ALL that has come out of the FCC on this matter (one also needs to note who appoints the head of the FCC to recognize the big-business friendly posture of that governmental body).

Or reduction of the analog tier, or MPEG-4, or an upgrade of the system to 750MHz or 1GHz, or...Most modern cable systems are at least 750MHz, and many are 1GHz. MPEG-4 would get us back to having cable supplied boxes as there are no MPEG-4 equipped sets, DVRs or any other cable connected equipment that can decode it (though it is interesting to note that HBO will be distributing all of their HD programs to cable & sat using MPEG-4).

SDV can easily be maxed out if all the SDV channels are being watched at once, thereby gaining nothing.[/QUOTE]Not really (not in practice) as the SDV distribution is on a local (node) basis. Typically, 500 customers are connected to a node, so the odds all of those customers watching all the SDV channels at the same time are pretty minimal (at least that is what experience has shown).

Or reduction of the analog tier, or MPEG-4, or an upgrade of the system to 750MHz or 1GHz, or...

There are plenty of options for increasing bandwidth other than SDV, and all the other options I mentioned above GUARANTEE a bandwidth increase. SDV can easily be maxed out if all the SDV channels are being watched at once, thereby gaining nothing.Like on Super Bowl Sunday?

If we want more HD channels (the subject of this thread - not your "twisted" opinion of the 8300) we will need SDV.Does my "twisted" ISP, Verizon, require SDV for it's FiOS program delivery?

Does my "twisted" ISP, Verizon, require SDV for it's FiOS program delivery?But this thread is about HD on Time Warner - not Verizon. But I guess you didn't realize that?

Geez Dave... you're such a BIG fan of Time Warner... why don't you go & watch a rerun of "Sex In The City," on-Demand, with your $20 per month crappy old DVR right now? :D THE problem is that TW hasn't yet been motivated to add significantly more HD channels - SDV or Not Because they have no competitive reason to do so, right Dude? This is the main reason that Verizon FiOS TV will be a good thing. ;)

Arre you able to view all the free VOD channels? There is quite a bit of content on our system.

Also, how do you record HD channels for later viewing? For me being able to time shift and skip commercials on HD shows is a huge plus.

Just think cablecards are too little too late.

Yeah, free video on demand might make a box worthwhile. Personally, it doesn't matter, but another person might consider it important.

Someday, I think an HD recorder will be something I want. For now, however, I just watch what I want to see when it is on. On a few occasions I've recorded something in SD for later viewing.

Their success may also be due to your particular display. The problem that cable companies have with either CableCards or clear QAM tuners is that the different set manufacturers (and even models withing a brand) have different set-up procedures. The cable techs are supposed to know their systems, but really are not in a position to master all the variations in set-up procedures that are out there.

I sat with the young man when he installed it and all he did was insert the card and call the office with the identification code. The girl in the office punched in the authorization code for what I have purchased and the community node and the card did the initial handshake. The node continues to recognize the card and use the proper service authorization. A miracle!

I sat with the young man when he installed it and all he did was insert the card and call the office with the identification code. The girl in the office punched in the authorization code for what I have purchased and the community node and the card did the initial handshake. The node continues to recognize the card and use the proper service authorization. A miracle!That's sounds easy enough! But, who took care of scanning the channels and all that? Lots of customers will expect the full scan and all that, and there are huge differences from brand to brand on that. If only part of the CableCard spec had a uniform procedure - but then the manufacturers probably wouldn't go along (product differentiation, control brand values, not dictated by cable, and all that stuff).

PS: I've never dealt with setting-up a CableCard set, but I've heard some of the horror stores and have delt with set-up of clear QAM, and with those, you spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the lousy translation from Chinese, or whatever, then wait 45 minutes for the scan to take place, followed by 2 hours manually deleting all the "junk" (OK, I exaggerate a little - but not too much!).

It (HBO) isn't free where optivity lives either - but he will always take the opportunity to trash TW when he canYou must be confused :confused: because I never said that:

On our service there isn't anything worth watching on free VOD

Bernieand:

Are you able to view all the free VOD channels? There is quite a bit of content on our system.

but thanks for putting those words into my mouth! :p

PS: I've never dealt with setting-up a CableCard set, but I've heard some of the horror stores and have dealt with set-up of clear QAM, and with those, you spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the lousy translation from Chinese, or whatever, then wait 45 minutes for the scan to take place, followed by 2 hours manually deleting all the "junk" (OK, I exaggerate a little - but not too much!).Ah ha! :D

Please: If you don't know what you are talking about - then don't
Which all seems rather hypocritical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black) to me. ;)

Albany TWC is trying to distribute all their old HD DVRs before the July 1st FCC deadline. The text below was sent via email to Albany TWC customers:Take advantage of our summer special on HD DVRs!

Don't have a digital video recorder? Stop by one of our payment centers by June 26, pick up an HD DVR, and we'll give you HD DVR service free for three months.

You must act quickly, however, because this offer ends Tuesday, June 26.

Some restrictions apply. Lease of a digital cable set-top box and remote control and subscription to Time Warner Cable digital cable service required. Available only to Time Warner Cable subscribers in the Capital/Saratoga/Berkshire region. Then we will be seeing a new STB :) (http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/15/samsung-cedia-cable-card-2-0-hdtv-receiver-smt-h3050/) (e.g. SMT-H3050 (http://www.samsung.com/Products/HomeGateway/CableSettopbox/HomeGateway_CableSettopbox_SMT_H3050TWC.asp)) & a more expensive cable bill :mad: (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/11/new-fcc-regulation-might-raise-cable-rates-even-higher/) from Albany Time Warner.

Originally Posted by davehancock
It (HBO) isn't free where optivity lives either - but he will always take the opportunity to trash TW when he canYou must be confused :confused: because I never said that:Oh, Originally:Originally Posted by bernie33
On our service there isn't anything worth watching on free VOD
To which you responded:That is not what Time Warner wants you to believe. and you posted a listing of HBO OnDemand programs.

To which bernie33 responded:Ummm, HBO is not free where we live. and I responded to that with: It (HBO) isn't free where optivity lives either - but he will always take the opportunity to trash TW when he can!

I think what Bernie33 meant were the stuff line CNN On Demand, Food Network OD, etc. Besides, who cares about OnDemand unless it is HD! But, I do know that some Comcast systems have a fair amount of free OnDemand HD stuff.
What I said (about your never missing an opportunity to trash TW) sure appears to be dead on! :D

Then we will be seeing a new STB :) (http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/15/samsung-cedia-cable-card-2-0-hdtv-receiver-smt-h3050/) (e.g. SMT-H3050 (http://www.samsung.com/Products/HomeGateway/CableSettopbox/HomeGateway_CableSettopbox_SMT_H3050TWC.asp)) & a more expensive cable bill :mad: (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/11/new-fcc-regulation-might-raise-cable-rates-even-higher/) from Albany Time Warner.There is nothing to indicate that TW (or any other cable company) will use the Samsung box. They are more likely to use the SA4240HDC (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008299.pdf) as well as the beloved SA8300HDC (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008360.pdf) (which you love to bash so much). Seeing that their costs are higher for these boxes, it certainly seems like the monthly charges could increase as a result.

“Pee-wee: I wouldn't sell my bike for all the money in the world. Not for a hundred million, trillion, billion dollars!
Francis: Then you're crazy!
Pee-wee: I know you are but what am I?
Francis: You're a nerd!
Pee-wee: I know you are but what am I?
Francis: You're an idiot!
Pee-wee: I know you are but what am I?
Pee-Wee, Francis: I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I? Pee-wee: Infinity!
Francis: No, I'm not.
Francis, Pee-Wee: You are! No way! Knock it off! Cut it out!
Francis: Shut up, Pee-wee!
Pee-wee: Why don't you make me.
Francis: You make me!
Pee-wee: Because. I don't make monkeys, I just train 'em.
Francis: Pee-wee listen to reason.
[Pee-Wee cuffs his hand around his ear in a listening motion]
Francis: Pee-wee!
Pee-wee: Sh! I'm listening to reason.
Francis: Pee-wee!
Pee-wee: That's my name, don't wear it out.
Francis: Remember the first time I saw your bike? You came riding past my house and I came running out to tell you how much I liked it even way back then?
Pee-wee: I love that story.
[jumps on bike and pedals away]
Francis: You'll be sorry, Pee-wee Herman!
________________________________________
Pee-wee: I know who you are, but what am I? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089791/quotes)”

PS: I've never dealt with setting-up a CableCard set, but I've heard some of the horror stores and have dealt with set-up of clear QAM, and with those, you spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the lousy translation from Chinese, or whatever, then wait 45 minutes for the scan to take place, followed by 2 hours manually deleting all the "junk" (OK, I exaggerate a little - but not too much!).
Please: If you don't know what you are talking about - then don't
I know what I am but who are you, a "pot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black)” or a “kettle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black)?”

and you posted a listing of HBO OnDemand programs.

which as was pointed out, was not relevant to the discussion of free VOD services, and ironically HBO VOD has quite a lot of content and is actually quite useful.

None of it is HD however, which is still disappointing.

There is nothing to indicate that TW (or any other cable company) will use the Samsung box. They are more likely to use the...Hence the (e.g.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_%28A%E2%80%93E%29#E) accompanied my example. I guess you need another wiki authored refresher course. :p

Dude... even Panasonic supports 4096 shades of gray (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?surfModel=TH-50PZ750U&catalogId=13401&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&modelNo=TH-50PZ750U&itemId=127058&catGroupId=24973&surfCategory=Plasma+TVs&cacheProgram=11002&storeId=15001&displayTab=S). :rolleyes:

PS: I've never dealt with setting-up a CableCard set, but I've heard some of the horror stores and have delt with set-up of clear QAM, and with those, you spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the lousy translation from Chinese, or whatever, then wait 45 minutes for the scan to take place, followed by 2 hours manually deleting all the "junk" (OK, I exaggerate a little - but not too much!).

For cablecards, there is no need to scan for channels. All available channels, including HD channels, are automatically mapped for the TV. Most of the initial problems with cablecards were related to misconfiguration by the provider at the head end. If the cable providers had configured everything correctly from the start, it really is as simple as plug and play, and no "professional" installation is necessary.

Hence the (e.g.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_%28A%E2%80%93E%29#E) accompanied my example. I guess you need another wiki authored refresher course. :p


or we could stop posting links to Wiki articles to state facts when any editorial professional could tell you that anything on Wikipedia is never used to prove a point or for fact checking, due to it's fluid nature and lack of consistency.

And then we could get back to discussing something actually relative (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=relative) to the topic.

For cablecards, there is no need to scan for channels. All available channels, including HD channels, are automatically mapped for the TV. Most of the initial problems with cablecards were related to misconfiguration by the provider at the head end. If the cable providers had configured everything correctly from the start, it really is as simple as plug and play, and no "professional" installation is necessary.Honest question: Is this true for all TV sets with CableCard? My customers have almost always had either satellite, or cable supplied STBs. I have dealt with a few QAM sets (including my own) and found the set-up process lengthy and a pain.

But, honest discussion of issues is what I prefer to engage in (while certain others do not).

or we could stop posting links to Wiki articles to state facts when any editorial professional could tell you that anything on Wikipedia is never used to prove a point or for fact checking, due to it's fluid nature and lack of consistency.

And then we could get back to discussing something actually relative (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=relative) to the topic.This is precisely why I like Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) as one of many information sources. Most of the topics found there are provided by a user community that actually cares enough to donate their wisdom, with no regard/allegiance to their employer, (e.g. (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/e.g.) Time Warner), or financial well being. :)

i.e. (e.g.) different information source / same definition

That's sounds easy enough! But, who took care of scanning the channels and all that? Lots of customers will expect the full scan and all that, and there are huge differences from brand to brand on that. If only part of the CableCard spec had a uniform procedure - but then the manufacturers probably wouldn't go along (product differentiation, control brand values, not dictated by cable, and all that stuff).

PS: I've never dealt with setting-up a CableCard set, but I've heard some of the horror stores and have delt with set-up of clear QAM, and with those, you spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the lousy translation from Chinese, or whatever, then wait 45 minutes for the scan to take place, followed by 2 hours manually deleting all the "junk" (OK, I exaggerate a little - but not too much!).

I do have a cablecard set, and their were problems with the initial setup. The first challenge was actually locating the slot for the cablecard on my wall mounted set. In this set the slot is on the bottom or the read panel, facing downward. It is the only thing located on that side of the TV and is not obvious from the illustration. Since different sets have them in different places the installer hd no more experience with installing it in my set then I did.

But the real problems turned out to be at their office. Because I have a DVR and a cablecard they weren't used to setting up both devices. They didn't define the cablecard properly to their system. They wound up sending out another tech who specializes in cablecards and is an actual TW employee rather than a contractor. He was able to talk the office through what they had to do to enable the cablecard. No problems since then and I'm sure several people learned from this experience so fewer customers will have problems in the future.

I don't recall if a scan was ever necessary with the cablecard. I did remove it once and reinstall it and not scan was necessary then.

Bernie

The fact of the matter is other companies have done fine at allocating bandwidth to meet the increased demands of HD programming. Comcast just went all digital in Chicago, freeing up space for hundreds of HD stations without the need for SDV.

Wouldn't going all digital mean the same thing, requiring people to get a box?

Wouldn't going all digital mean the same thing, requiring people to get a box?Yes, A box for each analog TV (I have 7). From what I have read, in Chicago, Comcast is providing the first box at no additional charge to analog only customers, but additional boxes are $5/month. So, for me, it would be $35/month added charge. (But, I am not in Chicago, or on Comcast).

PS: There was some discussion (announcements and such) last November about a technology from BroadLogic about TerraPix (http://www.broadlogic.com/11062006press.htm) which apparently translates all digital SD cable signals to analog as the cable enters the house. Don't know where this stands now, except that there was an article recently in Endgadget (http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/06/broadlogic-unveils-terapix-cables-secret-weapon/). Investers include the usual suspects: Comcast, TW, Cisco, Brighthouse and a bunch of venture capital firms.

There is nothing to indicate that TW (or any other cable company) will use the Samsung box. They are more likely to use the SA4240HDC (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008299.pdf) as well as the beloved SA8300HDC (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/customers/Source/7008360.pdf) (which you love to bash so much). Seeing that their costs are higher for these boxes, it certainly seems like the monthly charges could increase as a result.
I REAALLYY don't want to join your childish pitter-patter (http://www.pitterpatterpoms.com/)....although it's more like patty-cake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty-cake)...

BUT, back in January, Samsung announced they were testing (CableCARD ready)
Samsung SMT-H3050 HD-STB in TWC-New York and would expand to TWC-Milwaukee and
Advance-Newhouse Brighthouse locations (e.g. Florida):
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070119_0000313783
Sounds like TWC and B-H plan to deploy SMT-H3050....
Which would make sense if they're going to "share the debug pain" (aka "common reliance").

You might also be interested to see Samsung (et. al.) "SET-TOP BOX ROADMAP TO RETAIL"
presentations: http://www.cablelabs.com/conferences_public/VF2007/

So it looks like we'll see SMT-H3050 deployed by TWC and B-H....probably in addition to S/A STBs....

But for sure the SMT-H3050 (et. al.) are also targeted for your local ElectroMart, etc....
Hopefully sometime AFTER they've been thoroughly "debugged" with new headend S/W....

There is nothing to indicate that TW (or any other cable company) will use the Samsung box. They are more likely to use the SA4240HDC as well as the beloved SA8300HDC (which you love to bash so much). Seeing that their costs are higher for these boxes, it certainly seems like the monthly charges could increase as a result. I REAALLYY don't want to join your childish pitter-patter (http://www.pitterpatterpoms.com/)....although it's more like patty-cake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty-cake)...But you just did. :D

But you just did. :D
At least he's better at it than you.

At least he's better at it than you.Sorry Dude because Nobody Does It Better... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B0001XANAS/102-4409353-7940920?volume=6) even Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/wsus/community/default.mspx) agrees. :D

to all ISF calibrators... check out the WSUS Destinations/Related Communities link to Wiki (http://www.wsuswiki.com/AboutWSUSWiki) :p

You guys gotta realize its gonna take time for all the channels to eventually become HD... USA is way behind Europe as far as technology and TV is concerned. I has a few installs once with a few couples from england... they were surprised at the way TV was here and how it compare to their TV back in Europe... you want more HD and terrific service, move to Europe!!, at least their TV is uncensored, unlike this free country where free speech is no more on TV!! lol

Also, you people with analog TVs, get with the program and realize that the future is going to be digital!! no more analog!! so your gonna have to pay for a box if u wanna keep that crappy analog tv, and get the UNcrappy Sa 8300! dont blame TW for the SA8300, blame SA, they are the ones that make it and etc..!

What amazes me the most is the arrogance of Hollywood, Time Warner, Comcast, Panasonic, Pioneer, TiVo, Cable Labs, etc. who have transformed something as simple as watching TV into what has become almost as complicated as a PC with no regard to Joe six-pack who ponies up the cash.

For example, TiVo is still hawking a $799.99 (http://dynamic.tivo.com/2.0.boxes.step.1.asp) S3, which has two one-way CableCARD slots, as an alternative to the SA8300 - but what they won't tell you is it will become nothing more then a fancy doorstop when the Cable MSOs fully implement SDV. Oh well, I'm sure there will be another $899.99 two-way capable TiVo S4 to take its place. :rolleyes:

This sad state of affairs still leaves subscribers with only one choice: Time Warner’s proprietary three-year-old DVR. :mad:

CATV subscribers are best off waiting until after the analog shutoff date occurs on 2/17/09 before making any significant expenditure for digital A/V goods or services, because only then will the powers that be start making some rational decisions regarding Digital Rights Management.

If consumers were savvy enough to hold back some cash, this would compel the entertainment industry to step up and deliver on the promise of HD digital service.

But just as it is with oil producers, CATV providers have too good of a thing going right now... so why make any significant changes?

TBS-HD is coming September 1st. How long until TWC signs up (TBS is owned by Time Warner)?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tbs062607.htm

TBS-HD is coming September 1st. How long until TWC signs up (TBS is owned by Time Warner)?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tbs062607.htm

Probably as long as it took them to add Cinemax-HD, which is also owned by Time Warner. What? They still haven't added Cinemax-HD you say, even though it's been available for at least 2 years...?

There's your answer. :p

THE problem is that TW hasn't yet been motivated to add significantly more HD channels - SDV or Not (but we know that you don't particularly want to stick to the subject - don't we?).

Yes and no... it seems in Staten Island, Verizon is actually very close to being able to supply FIOS TV service, so TWC aggressively made an effort to dump all the analog channels and so far Staten Island gets 4 HD channels that the rest of us do NOT. And we all pay the same rates.

A "sort of" motivation, to be sure, but motivation never-the-less. They clearly make an effort only when they face an imminent threat. I'd put money that when FIOS TV comes available in my hood, TWC will have comparable services... but I and I suspect a lot of the folks, won't forget the fact they didn't make ANY effort ahead of the game and WILL be switching.

This is precisely why I like Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) as one of many information sources. Most of the topics found there are provided by a user community that actually cares enough to donate their wisdom, with no regard/allegiance to their employer, (e.g. (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/e.g.) Time Warner), or financial well being. :)

i.e. (e.g.) different information source / same definition

Uh, not even close. There's a TON of just plain "wrong for whatever reason wisdom" in any wiki.

Now that is NOT to trash all wiki's, but one needs to find ones that adhere as close as possible to peer reviewed journals "methodologies" for actually vetting information.

Probably as long as it took them to add Cinemax-HD, which is also owned by Time Warner. What? They still haven't added Cinemax-HD you say, even though it's been available for at least 2 years...?

There's your answer. :p

I hear ya, bro.

Probably as long as it took them to add Cinemax-HD, which is also owned by Time Warner. What? They still haven't added Cinemax-HD you say, even though it's been available for at least 2 years...?

There's your answer. :p

Actually what fries me is that it takes years to roll out in various markets. We got Cinemax HD last November, other areas got it long before we did and there are still areas that don't have it yet (we're talking all TWC systems).

I suspect their only criteria is whether there is or isn't an alternative... i.e. someone that CAN take away customers. I'm in a market with almost no OTA possibilities and mostly no satellite possibilities (big city, tons of VERY tall buildings), so we tend to always get jacked. When FIOS TV becomes available in my building, I'd bet you TWC will be very competative... and I will vote with my wallet and they will lose me not because of current conditions, but the way I fell I was treated BEFORE they had to actually TRY and keep my business. Frak 'em.

I've decided to follow some advice and "not feed the trolls", so I'll be quiet there for awhile. :(

Whoa, where to start...
You guys gotta realize its gonna take time for all the channels to eventually become HD... USA is way behind Europe as far as technology and TV is concerned. I has a few installs once with a few couples from england... they were surprised at the way TV was here and how it compare to their TV back in Europe... you want more HD and terrific service, move to Europe!!
False, HD in Europe is in it's infancy, years behind the US. Yes, Europe has had widescreen and digital TV for a while, but the UK just began HD on the BBC a little over a year ago
Also, you people with analog TVs, get with the program and realize that the future is going to be digital!! no more analog!! so your gonna have to pay for a box if u wanna keep that crappy analog tv, and get the UNcrappy Sa 8300!
That sound a lot like "Let them eat cake!!" and we all know how well that ended up for Marie Antoinette
dont blame TW for the SA8300, blame SA, they are the ones that make it and etc..!
Yeah, but it IS Time-Warner that offers it as their only DVR choice. So for somebody who wants to use a DVR with HD cable, TWC mandates it, so they're as much to blame.

(Although my only complain about the SA8300 is its diminutive HD size)

Yeah, but it IS Time-Warner that offers it as their only DVR choice. So for somebody who wants to use a DVR with HD cable, TWC mandates it, so they're as much to blame.

(Although my only complain about the SA8300 is its diminutive HD size)

If your only complaint is the hard drive size, you should look into hooking up a SATA drive to your SA8300. I connected a 500GB SATA drive to my SA8300 a while ago and I no longer have capacity problems. 500GB allows you to record an additional 60 hours of HD programming.

More info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

I've had my 8300HD for about 2 years and I would not want to give it up.

False, HD in Europe is in it's infancy, years behind the US. Yes, Europe has had widescreen and digital TV for a while, but the UK just began HD on the BBC a little over a year ago


that's absolutely correct. HD is barely a blip on the TV landscape and it's only recently that any form of DVR has arrived. HD will not reach public availability outside of a few cable markets and Sky until 2009 at the earliest and even then it will be a slow rollout.

If you think it's bad as a TWC HD consumer just be happy you don't live in the UK. This is one comparison that TWC is actually ahead in Cableguy!

Well thank you for the clarification there... I was under the impression that Europe was ahead of US as far as TV and HD go, musta been something else then... o well, Also the SA8300HD may be 3 years old, but last i checked... thats pretty young for a box, most other boxes are more than that!!! Not to mention the the 8300 also fixed so many problems that SA had with their 8000 model, it works great for me!!

Europe had OTA DTV (aka DTT, aka DVB-T) for several years now,
but it is medium-rez 720x576p@50Hz:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/codes_guidance/dttt_uk.pdf
Note the support of 4:3, 16:9 and ALSO 14:9 aspect ratios.

The UK's FREEVIEW system packs multiple channels into each OTA carrier:
http://www.freeview.co.uk/channels
As the name implies it's FREE----but the UK also requires each TV to be
licensed, costing several hundred dollars a year.
[So why does the UK succeed and USDTV failed????]
FREEVIEW (et. al.) helps to explain relatively low CATV penetration rate.

HD (mostly 1080i@25Hz) wasn't rolled out until just last year.
Here's a UK brochure re DTT history and current status dtg Feb2006:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/policies/pdf/dtt_hdtrial.pdf

Updates from Feb/Mar 2007 re number of HD channerl:
http://www.eutelsat.com/news/newsletter/2007-03/0703-idate.html
http://www.displaysearch.com/free/articles/HDTV_Status_and_Outlook.pdf

The latter, dated Feb2007, lists TOTAL number of available HD channels:
57 USA, 21 Japan, 20 (multilingual) Europe and a few each China, Korea & Australia.

In Europe, Cable has delayed rolling out HD channels....this will soon change....

IPTV via phone line pair will no doubt become a significant player....
until WiMAX and/or Broadband via Powerline become available....

The UK's FREEVIEW system packs multiple channels into each OTA carrier:
http://www.freeview.co.uk/channels
As the name implies it's FREE----but the UK also requires each TV to be
licensed, costing several hundred dollars a year.
[So why does the UK succeed and USDTV failed????]
FREEVIEW (et. al.) helps to explain relatively low CATV penetration rate.


Depends on your definition of "succeed." The first iteration of terrestrial DTV in the UK (which also had email service) died due to lack of money leaving a lot of dead boxes. The UK has the advantage of only being about the size of NC and largely urban but even now OTA coverage is not total, and in some cases you need to upgrade your home antenna. Which is why it isn't massively popular. It's relatively low powered in some areas, so motion artifacts and picture freezing isn't uncommon.

And if you've seen what's on Freeview you wouldn't be that excited. It's mostly channels of reruns with some good US imports thrown randomly around the schedule.

CATV penetration is also low due to the limited coverage of cable and the fact that the UK has to pay for services straight out of the box with the license. When you have to pay a monthly fee to begin with, spending more isn't that attractive an idea!

But we are going off topic here.

In short I'd rather pay for TWC and 15 channels of HD than a free service that gave me 15 channels of FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS reruns.

BUT, back in January, Samsung announced they were testing (CableCARD ready) Samsung SMT-H3050 HD-STB in TWC-New York

Personally, I don't care about the hardware manufacturer, but the software the new DVR's will use. I can't imagine any software worse than the 8300HD I have now (Albany, NY).

(Although my only complain about the SA8300 is its diminutive HD size)

well i have SARA on my SA8300 so I'd like to add useless search function to the short list of complaints. No skip button gets an honorable mention too.

Depends on your definition of "succeed." The first iteration of terrestrial DTV in the UK (which also had email service) died due to lack of money leaving a lot of dead boxes. The UK has the advantage of only being about the size of NC and largely urban but even now OTA coverage is not total, and in some cases you need to upgrade your home antenna. Which is why it isn't massively popular. It's relatively low powered in some areas, so motion artifacts and picture freezing isn't uncommon.

And if you've seen what's on Freeview you wouldn't be that excited. It's mostly channels of reruns with some good US imports thrown randomly around the schedule.

CATV penetration is also low due to the limited coverage of cable and the fact that the UK has to pay for services straight out of the box with the license. When you have to pay a monthly fee to begin with, spending more isn't that attractive an idea!

But we are going off topic here.

In short I'd rather pay for TWC and 15 channels of HD than a free service that gave me 15 channels of FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS reruns.
Sorry you couldn't find NASCAR, NFL, MLB, NBA or even NHL on FREEVIEW....at least they carry "football".

And perhaps only a Brit can appreciate those exciting BBC1/2/3/4 (snore...) and ITV1/2/3/4 programs....

================================
Check out second article:
http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/united_kingdom/index.xml
and fol. for U.K. TVHH penetration rates:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/tv/reports/dtv/dtu_2007_q1/dtu_2007_q1.pdf

33% watch OTA DTV FREEVIEW multiplexes....that's SUCCESS....USDTV is dead....
35% Satellite viewers (BSkyB and FREEVIEW)
12% Digital Cable
1.2% Analog Cable [Compare to U.S.!!!!!]

In U.K., 80% Own (and watch?) Digital TV (total for all sources).
With HD programs only since last year, U.K. HDTV penetration is only about 10+%.
But with healthy sales, Europe may catch up to us very rapidly....

=================================
Compare to U.S. TVHH penetration rates (includes SD and HD):
61.1% Cable (analog plus digital)
30% Digital Cable (various sources say half of cable subs are analog only)
26.5% Satellite (D* + E* + C-Band?)
0.6% Other (e.g. FiOS, U-verse)
http://www.tvb.org/selling/Competitive_Landscape/Case_Against_Cable/CL_ADS_Satellite_Cable.asp
Actual OTA DTV viewers (and QAM Cable) are (as usual) left out of most surveys....

Here are latest CEA survey numbers for watching HD in USA:
http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=talkbackCommentsFull&talk_back_header_id=6449232&articleid=CA6455975
66% Cable
27% Sat [frequently supplemented with OTA]
8% OTA
3% Fibre
3% Internet
But of the 30% of TVHHs that have an HDTV, only 44% actually connected to
an HD source---the other 56% watched DVDs, played games and/or watched low-rez TV.
[Note that CEA also tracks EDTVs, which are in addition to 30% HDTV ownership.]

Clearly U.K. is ahead of U.S. wrt DIGITAL TV....but we're ahead wrt HDTV.....
But that's after (hmmm) 7-8 years after OTA HDTV hit the airwaves....
Maybe it'll pick up with the upcoming explosion of new HD channels....

Personally, I don't care about the hardware manufacturer, but the software the new DVR's will use. I can't imagine any software worse than the 8300HD I have now (Albany, NY).I returned my $20 per month, three-year-old, spontaneous rebooting w/rumbling HDD to Albany Time Warner. I recommend you do the same. ;)

I REAALLYY don't want to join your childish

BUT, back in January, Samsung announced they were testing (CableCARD ready)
Samsung SMT-H3050 HD-STB in TWC-New York and would expand to TWC-Milwaukee and
Advance-Newhouse Brighthouse locations (e.g. Florida):

Sounds like TWC and B-H plan to deploy SMT-H3050....
Which would make sense if they're going to "share the debug pain" (aka "common reliance").

You might also be interested to see Samsung (et. al.) "SET-TOP BOX ROADMAP TO RETAIL"
presentations:

So it looks like we'll see SMT-H3050 deployed by TWC and B-H....probably in addition to S/A STBs....

But for sure the SMT-H3050 (et. al.) are also targeted for your local ElectroMart, etc....
Hopefully sometime AFTER they've been thoroughly "debugged" with new headend S/W....

Time Warner has the SMT-H3050 box available in Staten Island. I picked up two of them today. Ask for an ODM cable box.

Time Warner has the SMT-H3050 box available in Staten Island. I picked up two of them today. Ask for an ODM cable box.Do you know what software it is running? (On the lookout for Navigator to be making a limited appearance).

Do you know what software it is running? (On the lookout for Navigator to be making a limited appearance).


Don't have a clue. They didnt have any manuals so I am figuring out how to use this. Don't see anything which would give this information.