Cables /Switchers/Power Conditioners- Discuss Them Here!!! [Text View] - Page 5

brpc

11-29-06, 02:08 PM

i got a surge protector/power conditioner question.. ok.. i just picked up a 542i and i want to mount it on the wall.. i already got the mount.. but i wanted to know how should i go about protecting my lcd hdtv...

a electrician friend of mine told me about GFI wall outlets that they use in hospitals to protect their equipment.. he also said would be good to get a GFI breaker and run its own line (my house is old) so would that be a good thing to do?

i have heard about 'thin' surge protectors that you can mount on the wall behind the tv.. i saw the monster ones.. but it seems to me if they were to be 'thin' the plug outlets should be on the side.. not in the front which would be a pain to plugin/unplug after the tv is hung on the wall mount. are there any reasonable priced ones that you guys recommend that will work.. it would only need to protect the lcd and the cable line..

thanks for any suggestions.. i really appreciate it

dsilver668

11-29-06, 04:53 PM

Well brpc, I think a grounded GFI plug should be fine. Basically you want to save it from a spike caused during brown outs or black outs. In this instance a GFI is fine. As far as it's own isolated circuit, this would be more for isolating drain and noise. If it is on the same circuit lets say a blender. This blender when operating will introduce noise into the line and that can effect picture, and also make a humming sound more porminant in your LCD or Plasma.
Buying a line conditioner solves both these issues with out having to call for an electrician. Yeah ok it is anywhere from $100.00 to $300.00 but you haven't had to do anything other than plug in you equipment to it. As far as how thin they are you will need to check the specs and see if there is something that will fit.
I am actually looking for a line conditioner that doesn't cost an arm and a leg that I can plug my gear into. Any sugestions would be helpful.

beboram

11-29-06, 05:59 PM

dsilver668, have you considered a double conversion UPS? You can buy refurbished ones anywhere from $200 and up depending on the size. It will protect from brownout and spike and even give you a few minutes (depending upon the size) of use time in case of power outage.

I bought a 100VA for my LCD TV. One disadvantage of UPS is that the fan is noisy. If you can place the unit in another room that will solve the problem. I am placing mine in the basement immediately below the TV room.

dsilver668

11-29-06, 10:46 PM

HA!! I work as a network engineer. I bet I have a few old UPS systems somewhere in my server room.. LOL Those would be a bit over kill, but heck why not...

rustman

11-30-06, 12:01 AM

EDIT: Nevermind - found answers in the A/V Control &Automation forum

lxjenkins

11-30-06, 11:27 AM

sfhub

11-30-06, 11:32 AM

HA!! I work as a network engineer. I bet I have a few old UPS systems somewhere in my server room.. LOL Those would be a bit over kill, but heck why not...
You may want to test the batteries out. They usually have a 3-5yr lifetime and they go from holding charge to not very quick.

The more expensive ones all have replaceable batteries.

SirDrexl

11-30-06, 11:52 AM

Apologies if this has already been answered (searched but could not find it).

I own a Panny TH-42PX60U. I receive HD OTA and also have standard cable without a set-top box. My problem is that the 42PX60U only has one coax input. Is there a way to convert one of my coax feeds (preferably the standard cable) to allow me to input it using S-Video, Component, or HDMI?

Note: I have no VCR.

You could get an RF modulator, but they may only have composite video output. Edit: never mind, I don't think that would actually convert coax to composite (it may just be the other way around)

Wouldn't you need a way to tune the channels anyway? You couldn't just take a coax cable feed and convert it to another video type without tuning it to a channel. You'll need a set-top box or a VCR.

dsilver668

11-30-06, 11:56 AM

Oh I know the batteries are good. We use it in our testing on ocasion. :)
If they are starting to ware I can certantly swap them out to.

martyj19

11-30-06, 12:47 PM

beaglemac

11-30-06, 07:19 PM

SFMHT

11-30-06, 07:39 PM

I need some serious help here with my setup.

I have tivo. an HD box and a plasma.

My issue, my tivo has a DVI output, my cable box has a DVI-D output and my plasma has 2 HDMI outputs.

It is my understanding that the tivo goes to the cable box, but my tv must go to the cable box as well.

so I need a converter that is one end a DVI-D (to go into the cable) which splits into HDMI (to the tv) and other half splits to DVI (from the Tivo). Is there such a converter?

You can't "split" DVD-I/D or HDMI cables. You can get a cable with a DVI-D connector on one end and HDMI on the other. Does your Tivo have DVI-D, or DVD-I? I've never seen a DVI-I to DVI-D cable and I don't think you can just plug in a DVI-D to a DVI-I input (I could be wrong about this. If I am and you can, just do that)

JThiessen

12-01-06, 05:20 PM

So does anyone know if there is a physical difference between an RCA style video cable and an RCA style Audio cable? I have quite a few Monster audio cables, and was thinking about buying some component video cables, but I thought I'd try saving some dough and see if the audio cables transferred the video just as well.......

martyj19

12-01-06, 05:59 PM

MorePixels

12-02-06, 08:41 AM

There are many surge protector products available. Comparing specifications is difficult, since different levels of detail are provided. While there is a UL standard method for evaluating the clamping voltage, it does not appear that a standard method is widely quoted for many of the other specifications (so one has to wonder what mix of marketing vs. confidence intervals vs. technical utility lies behind some of the other claims, or lack thereof).

Some may choose to ignore the specifications, and merely depend upon the connected equipment warranty. In the worst case, if the unit is an empty shell with no surge suppression capability, but the vendor is selling an actuarially sound insurance policy, this could be OK. But read the fine print of most of these warranties, and you will see there will still be delays and shipping expenses in the best of circumstances. Companies also go out of business, or are acquired or merge in ways that may render some warranties useless. So it will be to your advantage to select a device that actually provides protection.

With those caveats, here are some data on a few models of surge protectors that may give you a starting point for your comparison shopping for a unit that matches your perceived needs of price/performance, or immediate gratification with no shipping delays, or biggest joule rating, or passing a satellite signal thru the coax ports, or ... :

- mail order $19 plus shipping
CyberPower 1090 (recommended by lcaillo in posts #823 & #927 in this thread)
3,000 joules
maximum peak current H-N 60,000 amps, H-G 45,000 amps, N-G 45,000 amps
6,000 volt max surge
330 volt clamping voltage UL 1449
< 1 nanosecond response time
up to 58 db reduction in EMI/RFI 150kHz - 100MHz on AC line
10 power outlets
[next 6 lines inferred from web page ... if you have had this unit
in your hand, and the facts differ, let me know, will edit this post]
4 coax (2 in, 2 out; unspecified protection)
includes 4 ft RG59/U coax cable
2 ethernet RJ-45 (1 in, 1 out; unspecified protection)
includes 6 ft CAT5 cable
2 telephone RJ-11 for line 1 (1 in, 1 out; unspecified protection)
includes 6 ft phone cord
$200,000 connected equipment warranty

- Costco (pennies below) $40.
PowerSentry Home Theater Computer & Media Center
model/item: 104168 model: 04-018-14MS-FFCCC
3,900 joules (8 x 20 microsecond waveform)
shuts down AC line when capacity exceeded
max spike current H-N 150,000 amps, H-G 30,000 amps, N-G 30,000 amps
6,000 volt max surge ("maximum surge possible on household wiring")
330 volt clamping voltage UL 1449 ("The lowest rating allowed by UL 1449.")
< 1 nanosecond response time
up to 85 db reduction in EMI/RFI 150kHz - 100MHz on AC line
10 adapter-spaced power outlets
6 coax (3 in, 3 out; 1 pair "Satellite", other 2 "TV/Cable")
90 volts clamping voltage, < 1.0 db attenuation to 2.4GHz
includes 6 ft RG59/U coax cable
2 RJ45 ethernet
6 volt clamping voltage (protects pins 1, 2, 3 & 6)
includes 6 ft CAT5 cable
3 telephone (1 in, 2 out)
275 volt clamping voltage per UL 497A for line 1 (protects pins 3 & 4)
includes 6 ft phone cord
$350,000 connected equipment warranty
thickness 3 inches or less if use 90 degree coax connectors (power
outlets aimed to sides)

- Target (pennies below) $30.
Belkin part # BE108230-06
3,550 joules (H-N 1,720, H-G 835, N-G 835; phone line 160)
135,000 amp max spike current (H-N 75,000, H-G 30,000, N-G 30,000)
330 volt clamping voltage UL 1449
< 1 nanosecond response time
up to 58 db reduction in EMI/RFI 150kHz - 100MHz on AC line
8 outlets
2 coax (1 in, 1 out; unspecified protection)
3 telephone RJ-11 for line 1 (1 in, 2 out; 160 joules energy dissipation)
$200,000 connected equipment warranty

- Target (pennies below) $40.
Belkin part # BE112234-10
4,156 joules (H-N 2,052, H-G 972, N-G 972; phone line 160)
216,000 amp max spike current (H-N 120,000, H-G 48,000, N-G 48,000)
330 volt clamping voltage UL 1449
< 1 nanosecond response time
up to 75 db reduction in EMI/RFI 150kHz - 100MHz on AC line
12 outlets
2 coax (1 in, 1 out; unspecified protection)
2 ethernet RJ-45 (1 in, 1 out; unspecified protection)
3 telephone RJ-11 for line 1 (1 in, 2 out; 160 joules energy dissipation)
$300,000 connected equipment warranty

I do not know how well these devices perform compared to these specifications. But I have certainly seen many opportunities for one to pay much more for devices with weaker specifications.

ehyo

12-03-06, 10:23 PM

hey guys,

ok so heres a true rookie/newbie question for you experts

im probably buying a Panasonic TH-42PX60U, which cables from monoprice would u recommend i purchase so as to get the best picture quality? If you could provide a link, that would be great

in addition, i have a friend who can get me a huge discount on monster cables. in that situation, where the cost of monster is not so much an issue, would you then choose monster over a cheaper cable?

or, am i still not getting a better picture quality

coreytime

12-04-06, 12:40 AM

there is NO difference between high quality hdmi cables and low quality.... it eithers works or it doesnt..

lcaillo

12-04-06, 07:48 AM

Making the statement that there are no differences in cables is as wrong as saying that Monster Cable is a good value. Cable build quality can vary. It is popular to bash the premium cable vendors and often justified, but assuming that there are no differences is sometime the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like most questions in this business, the answer is more complex than an absolute.

While cables carrying digital signals usually have no differences in performance, there can be effective differences due to shielding in longer runs, differences in how well the connectors fit, and general build quality differences. Initially, there were not strong standards for HDMI connectors. They have since publiched a tighter standard, but there is no guarantee that everyone follows it. Some cables have tended to be a loose fit, which is a problem for monitors with down-facing jacks. Some have been hard to insert, causing broken connections at the circuit boards.

Monoprice has a good reputation and I have heard no problems with their cables. Monster has generally has very high quality, though their performance claims are often ridiculous. If you can get the right cables at or near the monoprice I would get them, but don't pay a premium for them unless you can find a difference that matters.

sfhub

12-04-06, 10:37 AM

I second that.

There are differences in cables.

What should be said is if a cable for digital DVI and HDMI isn't good enough, it will be immediately obvious as sparkles, streaks, static, flashing picture, HDMI error, etc.

If you aren't seeing those, a "better" cable will make no difference in PQ.

Monoprice happens to sell some very good cables at affordable prices. I say they are very good because the build quality is good and they test successfully at 1920x1080p@60Hz at 50ft distances.

strutter

12-04-06, 12:04 PM

hey guys,

in addition, i have a friend who can get me a huge discount on monster cables. in that situation, where the cost of monster is not so much an issue, would you then choose monster over a cheaper cable?

or, am i still not getting a better picture quality

if the monster was the same or less price i would get them. i have no issues with the quality, just the price for what you get.

Schlotkins

12-05-06, 08:39 AM

sfhub

12-05-06, 10:57 AM

Are bettercables worth the $70 for a HDMI 1 meter cable? Going from a Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player to a Pioneer 5070. I still have a component cable them from that is HUGE... going to use that for my cable box I guess.
I suggest you just stick with the cable Toshiba includes (they included one with A1, don't know about A2) unless it gives you problems.

DReilly1

12-05-06, 11:46 AM

Once you get to the part of their website where they show HDMI cables, there appear to be different types, with different features, etc.

Is there a specific Model number, product ID that most buying HDMI cables from Monoprice are choosing.

I think I would want these???

Product ID: 2282
HDMI to HDMI Cable (24AWG) w/ net jacket-15ft (Gold Plated) (N)

I think there is also 26AWG, are there important differences?

Thanks, I'm new to HD and HDMI cables.

Doug

sfhub

12-05-06, 11:50 AM

My suggestion is:

15ft or under get the 28AWG.

Up to 35ft, consider 24AWG.

50ft, consider 22AWG.

Net Jacket is a more durable coating on the cable covering. It doesn't affect performance.

DReilly1

12-05-06, 12:01 PM

marcusm750

12-05-06, 05:31 PM

...have you considered a double conversion UPS?

That works great for keeping your gear up during a power loss, but be careful as to the power quality of the inverter (DC to AC) on the back end. Some have outputs more dirty than the original line noise you were trying to eliminate in the first place. Some are so cheap they only output a square wave which A/V gear may or may not tolerate.

marcusm750

12-05-06, 06:02 PM

a electrician friend of mine told me about GFI wall outlets that they use in hospitals to protect their equipment.. he also said would be good to get a GFI breaker and run its own line (my house is old) so would that be a good thing to do?

A GFI (ground-fault interrupter) breaker will only do you good if you plan on throwing your A/V gear into a body of water. It will do nothing for cleaning hash and other noise out of a power line. Now, a separate branch circuit from your main panel can help eliminate some noise by itself, but the best would be to surround its circuit breaker (above and below) with plug-in hash filters (they look like circuit breakers without the switch pole and with a neutral lead). Otherwise you can always pay way too much money for a Monster conditioner.

ehyo

12-05-06, 10:02 PM

if the monster was the same or less price i would get them. i have no issues with the quality, just the price for what you get.

so taking price out of the equation, you consider Monster to be the superior quality hdmi cable

Schlotkins

12-06-06, 06:51 AM

I suggest you just stick with the cable Toshiba includes (they included one with A1, don't know about A2) unless it gives you problems.

Let's say Toshiba wasn't including a cable (as they aren't with the A2). Then what cable would you get? :)

Thanks,
Chris

sfhub

12-06-06, 07:42 AM

Let's say Toshiba wasn't including a cable (as they aren't with the A2). Then what cable would you get? :)
I would just go with one of the 28AWG monoprice cables. Very good build quality and perfect picture. If you need longer, consider the lower AWG.

Schlotkins

12-06-06, 08:20 PM

I would just go with one of the 28AWG monoprice cables. Very good build quality and perfect picture. If you need longer, consider the lower AWG.

This is the right cable correct?

HDMI Cable male to male 28AWG - 10ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold-Plated)

I figured I'd go with 10 feet just to have some extra since the 6 footers are out of stock.

Cheers,
Chris

Budarow

12-07-06, 12:45 PM

Projector (PJ) is Mitsubishi HD1000U W/1 HDMI, 1 Component, 1 S-Video, 1 VGA & 1 Serial.

I'm leaning towards running a 35 foot (22 AWG, I would like to use the 24 AWG since I have to "bend" the cable out the back of the PJ and up into the mount/ceiling) HDMI to DVI cable to possibly a 2-port DVI switch.

The HDMI end of the 35' cable would connect to the PJ with the other DVI end to the switch and then I'd connect 2 short DVI cables with 1 to a PC and the other to a DVD player.

Or perhaps I should go with a 35' HDMI to HDMI cable and use a 2-way HDMI switch?

Sorry, I tried to link to a couple of swithch I had in mind, however, since I'm new to the board, I couldn't.

Or do you peeps suggest some other method to connect a PC/DVD player, etc. to my projector?

Thanks,

Budarow

sfhub

12-07-06, 01:01 PM

This is the right cable correct?

HDMI Cable male to male 28AWG - 10ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold-Plated)

I figured I'd go with 10 feet just to have some extra since the 6 footers are out of stock.
Yup, looks good.

sfhub

12-07-06, 01:05 PM

bareyb

12-07-06, 11:17 PM

bareyb

12-08-06, 02:38 PM

Bump. Anyone? Help? :confused:

adm

12-08-06, 03:20 PM

Hi everyone. Been trying to get an answer to this all day. Monoprice is out of stock on the 24ga. HDMI cables and the 22ga. just seems way too thick to work with. Would you think that the 26ga. cable will be okay at 25 feet or should I deal with Port Protectors and the heavier ga. 22 stuff?

bareyb,
Unfortunately, I'm not in the position to comment on the 22 vs 24. I just looked at the monoprice site and they are saying that the ETA of the 24 awg is next Friday 12/15. I am pretty sure that you saw that date.

Last time I ordered from them I ran into a similar scenario of them being out of stock of part of my order. Interestingly enough the stuff came in prior the posted ETA. Just kept checking the site and saw it and then ordered the rest of what I wanted. They shipped via USPS with priorty mail & it came in faster than several other places that I had orders going from at the same time.

I got the 24 awg hdmi from them around Thanksgiving. Must have had a big hit on these guys due to holiday purchases.

Not sure if I helped you much.

..Mark

bareyb

12-08-06, 04:26 PM

bareyb,
Unfortunately, I'm not in the position to comment on the 22 vs 24. I just looked at the monoprice site and they are saying that the ETA of the 24 awg is next Friday 12/15. I am pretty sure that you saw that date.

Last time I ordered from them I ran into a similar scenario of them being out of stock of part of my order. Interestingly enough the stuff came in prior the posted ETA. Just kept checking the site and saw it and then ordered the rest of what I wanted. They shipped via USPS with priorty mail & it came in faster than several other places that I had orders going from at the same time.

I got the 24 awg hdmi from them around Thanksgiving. Must have had a big hit on these guys due to holiday purchases.

Not sure if I helped you much.

..Mark

Thanks Mark...
Well I went ahead and got three of the 26ga. 25 footers and I guess I can plug them in and see if they work. I'm just concerned that the size and weight of the 22ga. might harm the connectors and they seem like they would be very difficult to fish through the walls.

I also got three of the "Port Savers". So now my question is Would I be better off going with :

1.22ga. with a Port Saver (28ga. 8 inches long) on the ends
2. 1 solid 26 ga. cable.

I wonder what's worse, having a lot of interconnects or using a smaller diameter cable? I have to believe that they couldn't get the cable certified if it wasn't large enough diameter...

bareyb

12-08-06, 05:27 PM

I want the male to male to go to from my Comcast box to my Plasma, same thing for DVD to Plasma... right..

No difference in quality compared to monster?

I just called MONSTER CABLE and guess what gauge wire they are using in their $250.00 400 series HDMI cables? 28 ga!!! :eek: Maybe my 26 ga. cables will be okay afterall..

The $35.00 Monoprice cables use 22 ga up to 26 ga. Only their cheapest cables use 28 ga. I guess it's official. Monster Cable is a ripoff. :p

p3Orion

12-09-06, 07:40 PM

I will be getting a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK soon and need some cables. I plan to connect a 622 HDTV/DVR STB from E*, Xbox 360, and an Oppo DVD player. The DVD player will probably be the DV-970HD, since Panasonic plasmas have macroblocking issues with the OPDV971H. I will temporarily be connecting a pair of Klipsch PC speakers directly to the 9UK, with the intention of purchasing a surround sound system in the near future.

Given my setup what cables would you suggest? I have a general idea, but don't want to leave anything out. For the component should I get the 5-RCA or 3-RCA? Since I will be connecting speakers directly to the back of the 9UK and ultimately replacing those with a surround sound system, would the 5-RCA component be redundant?

I have read all the positive vibe about Monoprice. I've also checked out Accessories4less, which carries Acoustic Research, Phoenix Gold, IXOS, Tributaries. The prices for the cables at Accessories4less are reduced significantly from the retail price, and are comparable and/or slightly more than the Monoprice cables. How would those cables compare to Monoprice's? Given the reduced pricing would any of you purchase the other cables?

Thanks for your time. :)

garyjo

12-10-06, 04:16 PM

Spoke to monoprice last week. They confirmed their 28 AWG HDMI cables will work just fine in most situations. No need to buy 24 or 26AWG cables. These are digital cables, not analog cables. Gauge size is not that important for shorter runs. That is perhaps why MONSTER uses 28 AWG cable in their HDMI cables, as reported above.

I also went with the 5-RCA component cables, not the 3-RCA component cables.

I will be getting a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK soon and need some cables. I plan to connect a 622 HDTV/DVR STB from E*, Xbox 360, and an Oppo DVD player. The DVD player will probably be the DV-970HD, since Panasonic plasmas have macroblocking issues with the OPDV971H. I will temporarily be connecting a pair of Klipsch PC speakers directly to the 9UK, with the intention of purchasing a surround sound system in the near future.

Given my setup what cables would you suggest? I have a general idea, but don't want to leave anything out. For the component should I get the 5-RCA or 3-RCA? Since I will be connecting speakers directly to the back of the 9UK and ultimately replacing those with a surround sound system, would the 5-RCA component be redundant?

I have read all the positive vibe about Monoprice. I've also checked out Accessories4less, which carries Acoustic Research, Phoenix Gold, IXOS, Tributaries. The prices for the cables at Accessories4less are reduced significantly from the retail price, and are comparable and/or slightly more than the Monoprice cables. How would those cables compare to Monoprice's? Given the reduced pricing would any of you purchase the other cables?

Thanks for your time. :)

SirDrexl

12-10-06, 06:08 PM

Given my setup what cables would you suggest? I have a general idea, but don't want to leave anything out. For the component should I get the 5-RCA or 3-RCA? Since I will be connecting speakers directly to the back of the 9UK and ultimately replacing those with a surround sound system, would the 5-RCA component be redundant?

If you're only going to be using the 2 channel audio for a short time, I would just get the 3-RCA cable and a separate 2 channel cable for audio. Then, when you upgrade your system you can remove the 2 channel cable. I don't know if the 5-RCA cables are designed so that you pull the extra two cables off when you no longer need them. Another reason to have a separate cable is if you have or will have a setup where the stereo audio needs to go somewhere else (like if you decide to have stereo audio from a receiver before you set it up for surround).

briandwlee

12-10-06, 10:55 PM

bareyb

12-10-06, 11:47 PM

Hi.

I am just wondering if Monster 400 HDMI is any different in terms of quality from some cables from Monoprice. Monster claims that 400 series are guaranteed to work with 1080p, but 300 series are not. In my humble opinion, it's digital cable, and if it's not dirt cheap cable out there, everything pretty much should work fine with 1080p. I work at a BB, so I can get some good discount on Monster Cables, and if they are any better, I'll think about purchasing those.

Any comments?
Monster Cable 400 series uses 28 ga. wire inside and it's ovbious from the diameter that they don't use a heck of a lot of shielding. The $40.00 Monoprice cables are inwall rated and use 22 ga. Their 28 ga. "el cheapo" model is probably the equivalent of what Monster sells for $250.00. Don't be fooled. Digital is digital. The only thing that makes one CERTIFIED cable better than another is the gauge of wire inside. Monster cable is a ripoff. Plain and simple.

sfhub

12-10-06, 11:57 PM

I am just wondering if Monster 400 HDMI is any different in terms of quality from some cables from Monoprice. Monster claims that 400 series are guaranteed to work with 1080p, but 300 series are not. In my humble opinion, it's digital cable, and if it's not dirt cheap cable out there, everything pretty much should work fine with 1080p. I work at a BB, so I can get some good discount on Monster Cables, and if they are any better, I'll think about purchasing those.
The monoprice cables are great, they work fine at 1080p. I tested the 22, 24, 28AWG cables at 1080p/60Hz the picture is perfect. No sparkles.

However it is not true that all cables will work fine at 1080p just because the signal is digital. There are cables that will work at 1080i but fail at 1080p. However what you can say is it is very obvious when a digital cable is not working right because there will be very obvious artifacts like sparkles, static, etc. If the cable you are using doesn't have such obvious problems, then it is working fine and a different cable will make no difference.

bigalpo

12-12-06, 11:26 AM

Jujitsu99

12-12-06, 12:36 PM

I'm looking to buy a line conditioner/voltage regulator. I only have a 40" LCD, dvd player, and satelite receiver. Does anyone have any recomendations? I was looking at Belkin, Panamax. What will fit my needs? Thanks in advance.

lcaillo

12-12-06, 01:15 PM

Your LCD and satellite receiver use SMPS designs that are highly effective at elimiating line noise and are robust in dealing with power line variations. Your DVD player likely uses a similar supply, though some use a more conventional power supply. Even if the latter, unless you see or hear a problem and connot solve it otherwise, do not expect any meaningful improvement due to line regulation or "conditioning." Get a good surge suppressor that protects all lines coming into the system and make sure your sat installation is grounded properly to the electrical service ground electrode.

Panamax is excellent product, though a bit pricey. Belkin has some very good products and some that are less useful. Best value around right now is the CyberPower 1090 at NewEgg for $20.

Jujitsu99

12-12-06, 01:19 PM

lcaillo. are you saying that there is no value in a voltage regulator either?
which panamax and belkin would you recomend as a surge suppressor?

awarsoca

12-12-06, 01:38 PM

CJO

12-12-06, 03:10 PM

im getting a panamax line conditioner and am curious if there is any PQ degradation if i hook up my satellite coax cable to the conditioner and then from the conditioner to my directv hi-def receiver? thanks.

Unless there is a problem with the conditioner, it should cause no noticeable degredation in the signal.

CJ

CJO

12-12-06, 03:14 PM

If this has been asked and answered before, just point me to the spot.

I am going to be mounting my 60U this weekend. My plan is to pop two 2 3/8" holes in the wood paneling walls, one high, behind the TV, and one low (directly in line with the one up high), to the right of the electrical socket. I will be using desk grommets to fil the holes. The only cables I have to run are teh power cord from the TV and the HDMI cable from the receiver.

Now that I decided to do it this way, I thought I remeber reading that the power cable should be kept separate from the other cables to prevent possible interference. Several of the pictures I ave seen here seem to have all the cables coming out of the same hole. Should I be worried about the possible interference or not?

You should try to run them on separate sides of the stud bay. The short distance between the hole and the TV shouldn't cause any problems. However, it is against the electric code to run the power cord inside the wall. To do it correctly, you either have to use romex and staple it to the studs, or (I think) you can use a metal conduit.

CJ

awarsoca

12-12-06, 04:14 PM

You should try to run them on separate sides of the stud bay. The short distance between the hole and the TV shouldn't cause any problems. However, it is against the electric code to run the power cord inside the wall. To do it correctly, you either have to use romex and staple it to the studs, or (I think) you can use a metal conduit.

CJ

While I would love to hit both sides of the stud, I'm limited.
As for code, this house's wiring is a nightmare as is. Stupid house is double looped. I can't trip just 1 breaker to a room to cut the power, I have to hit the main breaker for the house to really kill the power. Regardless, it is noted that it is against code (c;

lcaillo

12-12-06, 05:49 PM

lcaillo. are you saying that there is no value in a voltage regulator either?
which panamax and belkin would you recomend as a surge suppressor?

You have voltage regulators in your equipment, in fact, you have several levels of regulation in most. There is little need for it externally. The low voltage shutoff on some units may be useful in areas with frequent brown outs, but most power supplies are rather robust on better equipment these days. Surge suppression, OTOH, can be a big benefit in some areas, like here in Gainesville.

I do not recommend the Belkin product, though some are fine. I would use the cheapest Panamax that has the number of outlets and the signal lines that you need. I use both the Panamax and the CyberPower units.

Jujitsu99

12-12-06, 09:11 PM

4dheels

12-13-06, 06:09 AM

I'm looking to get a good conditioner/ surge protector but I don't really know if it's worth spending a decent amount of money on.

I can get the PureAV™ Home Theater Power Console PF60 new for 299.00. Is it crazy to spend that kind of money on a conditioner or does it really make that much of a difference? Has anyone tried this unit before?

I appreciate any opinions!

lcaillo

12-13-06, 09:31 AM

lcaillo. i looked at the panamax products. all the surge protectors have a joules rating around 1600. isn't that low for what I need?

I do live in an area where we get alot of brown outs. the problem is most of the voltage regulators are expensive. any rec on a unit that works but doesn't cost alot?

It should be adequate. I have discussed the matter with Panamax and inspected what the units actually use. The CyberPower1090, for instance, uses very similar MOVs in type and number but claims more than twice the Joule rating. I think they add the total dissipation between all legs, while Panamax just counts the highest one. You would not be using all the MOVs at any one time because you would not have equally high potentials between all three legs at once. Various MOV makes use different factors to rate the energy dissipation as well. The Bottom line is that Joule ratings are like power ratings in amps, only worse...don't rely on them too much. The thing I like about Panamax is that at least they give specs for the various lines, and after inspecting the guts of many, they seem to have the most comprehensive package.

sbelyo

12-13-06, 04:07 PM

has anyone ordered the component switcher from monoprice?

I was looking at the one from inday, but it didn't switch digital audio. I'm just trying find a happy medium for adding component inputs

ssho9

12-13-06, 11:18 PM

lcaillo (and other pro's):

I have grounding questions.

At the service entrance, my coax from the cable company goes though a standard cable coupler. This coupler is solidly bonded directly to the service entrance ground rod with a very good/tight connection. From there, it goes about 25' into the attic where it hits a cable splitter where it breaks out to three rooms. One goes to a cable modem. The second goes to a remote cable box/tv in the back room. The third goes to my APC H10/Plasma.

My questions seems simple, but I'm not sure. A lot of cable splitters have a ground lug on them. The ground lug is wimpy, however it is there. My first splitter in the attic has a ground lug.

Question1. Is it recommended to run a ground wire from the splitter in the attic back to the service entrance ground, or is that just overkill?

Question2. At the H10, the cable connects solidly to the H10 which itself of course is connected to the ground on the 120v receptacle. There is no doubt higher resistance in the coax from the cable at the service entrance vs the ground wire at the receptacle (slightly less if question1 is yes). Dois this higher resistance in the coax shield cause any 'noise' or other interference on the cable itself?

Steve

lcaillo

12-14-06, 12:07 AM

Question1. Is it recommended to run a ground wire from the splitter in the attic back to the service entrance ground, or is that just overkill?

Question2. At the H10, the cable connects solidly to the H10 which itself of course is connected to the ground on the 120v receptacle. There is no doubt higher resistance in the coax from the cable at the service entrance vs the ground wire at the receptacle (slightly less if question1 is yes). Dois this higher resistance in the coax shield cause any 'noise' or other interference on the cable itself?

Steve

1. No

2. The shield is adequate grounding. Check the resistancefrom the a.c. outlet ground to the shield on the coax at your system with the cable disconnected. If it is more than about 3 ohms, check your connections. Bad connections are far more of a problem than the resistance in the coaxial shielding.

p3Orion

12-16-06, 03:30 PM

Current Equipment :

Panasonic TH-42PH9UK
622 HDTV/DVR STB from E* (DishNetwork)
Oppo DVD player
Xbox 360

Future Equipment :

Receiver
5.1 Surround Sound

I've looked at surge protectors, UPS's, line conditioners, line filterers, etc., etc., and my head is spinning. :confused:

My budget for power protection is $50-100. Would a surge protector suffice or should I get a UPS?

The surge protectors I've checked out are Tripp Lite's HT10DBS (http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2813),
Panamax's M8HC-PRO (http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=1&sec=detail&id=236&ly=h),
APC's PF11VNT3 (http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PF11VNT3),
Monster Cable Home Theatre POWERBAR® 1100 with Clean Power™ Stage 2 v.2.0 (http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1320).

All can be found for around $100 or less.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. :)

dadon9x

12-17-06, 09:46 AM

My budget for power protection is $50-100. Would a surge protector suffice or should I get a UPS?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. :)

For just $42 more, you can have this:

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Reference-PowerCenter-3500-MKII/dp/B00004Y2ZF/sr=8-1/qid=1166366665/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1714241-9725456?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

TdoubleD038

12-19-06, 05:28 PM

i might be offtopic here not sure but i was wondering:

as far as the Xbox 360 goes would you recommend the Monster brand VGA cable or the Microsoft brand VGA cable?

Similarly is there a difference between the monster component cables for the ps3 and the psyclone brand ones or the sony brand?

thanks in advance for any replies

UFCen2000

12-19-06, 05:37 PM

If this has been asked and answered before, just point me to the spot.

I am going to be mounting my 60U this weekend. My plan is to pop two 2 3/8" holes in the wood paneling walls, one high, behind the TV, and one low (directly in line with the one up high), to the right of the electrical socket. I will be using desk grommets to fil the holes. The only cables I have to run are teh power cord from the TV and the HDMI cable from the receiver.

Now that I decided to do it this way, I thought I remeber reading that the power cable should be kept separate from the other cables to prevent possible interference. Several of the pictures I ave seen here seem to have all the cables coming out of the same hole. Should I be worried about the possible interference or not?

When the cables are being laid out and routed through the walls (conduit or w/e), they have to be 2" apart. Now, they can be that far apart all the way up to your "hole" where they exit the wall.

Musky-Hunter

12-20-06, 01:01 AM

:

I've looked at surge protectors, UPS's, line conditioners, line filterers, etc., etc., and my head is spinning. :confused:

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. :)

Have you considered the Belken PureAV products? I just purchased the PF30 and have no regrets. I have noticed cleaner sound as after install too. Very solid/heavy product and not a bad appearance. It can be found for under a Benny shipped.

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=178339

cheeks

12-20-06, 10:35 PM

sorry for this novice question, but is male-to-male HDMI the same as a regular HDMI cable?

sfhub

12-21-06, 12:34 AM

sorry for this novice question, but is male-to-male HDMI the same as a regular HDMI cable?
Yes.

fireandicefuel

12-21-06, 01:07 AM

My suggestion is:

15ft or under get the 28AWG.

Up to 35ft, consider 24AWG.

50ft, consider 22AWG.

Net Jacket is a more durable coating on the cable covering. It doesn't affect performance.

If I got 3 15 footers that are 24AWG will they work fine? I had to buy 15 footers as all the 6 footers were full @ monoprice. I tried using it as my tv is less than 3 feet from the hd dvr box and the picture took a while and some channels weren't loading for some reason. Why would that be?

Dannyws6

12-21-06, 07:49 AM

I have a New sony 1080p Tv. Im getting the worst picture out of it. its all hazey and blotchey when im watching a movie in HD i still see a distortion. I had the cable guy bring a ampliphier. its helped a little but not very much. im not running HDMI cables, im just using regualf cables you get from comcast. i tried a dvi to hdmi cable it didnt seem to help either. Anyone have any suggestions??

The cable guy said i need new cable wires, that i have old cable wire.

conner

12-24-06, 01:36 AM

I am looking into a decent(read working) HDMI switch. Besides the one at monoprice that is expected to be in stock soon, I have looked at some others. Geffen is way overpriced and others as well. Does anyone have experience with this company:

http://www.octavainc.com/

or this one:

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4920501?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Larry Hutchinson

12-24-06, 12:36 PM

I bought an Octavia because it switches TOSLINK and the Monoprice does not.

Works fine and many others here at AVS have had good results with Octavia.

sfhub

12-24-06, 03:08 PM

If I got 3 15 footers that are 24AWG will they work fine? I had to buy 15 footers as all the 6 footers were full @ monoprice. I tried using it as my tv is less than 3 feet from the hd dvr box and the picture took a while and some channels weren't loading for some reason. Why would that be?
What you describe could be any number of problems. I would try isolating with different source equipment like upconverting DVD player and see if there are any picture issues. If not, then it is likely something on the HD DVR side or some problem with the combination of the HD DVR and the particular TV. If there is a problem then we can go from there.

DjPiLL

12-25-06, 10:31 PM

I finally got my Belkin PF60 delivered after waiting a good two weeks from the place I ordered it from. All I can say is WOW.

I saw people on here saying how improved their PQ was after buying it, but I kinda didn't believe them. I had some CRAZY video hum bars on my picture thanks to some poorly wired electric in my house.

Well I run my coax through this PF60, along with all my other power equipment. What a difference! Hum bars GONE. And my picture is MUCH better looking (and even brighter).

I have an older Pioneer 503CMX. Its almost four years old since I bought it, and the model itself is a 5+ year old model. My picture was degrading a little over time (getting a little darker). I thought it was slowly starting to die so I started raising the contrast.

Well this PF60 seems to have brought it back to life. Much brighter now, and I was able to turn my contrast settings back down to negative levels. I am VERY impressed. Got it for a great price too!

I am actually going to bring the PF60 to work tomorrow. I have two PCs and a Mac hooked up to an iogear KVM switch. No matter how many KVM switches I buy... I always seem to get some interference on my screen. With this current one, I am getting video hum bars similar to what my plasma is getting. While I am not optimistic it will help me at work, I am bringing it tomorrow to test. Gonna plug all my PCs into it and see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a ground loop at my job as well thanks to some crappy electrical wiring.

lcaillo

12-25-06, 11:45 PM

DjPiLL

12-26-06, 12:17 AM

I'd really like to know how this unit has affected the contrast and made your image much brighter. I just don't see how this can be the source of such effects.

If you had a hum bar that the PF60 fixed, I would be very concerned about the efficacy of the surge suppression. Your system has found a ground through the unit that was not common before, so either a gound or neutral has a high impedance which can be a safety issue. It is always better to solve these issues at the source rather than rely on the surge suppression device for grouding. Then if you still want to use it you have extra protection, but the system should be properly grounded first.

The problem with "fixing it at the source" would be a very difficult (and expensive) to accomplish. I live in an older house, and a lot of the electrical wires would be very difficult to get to. I would have to open a lot of holes in my walls. Just not worth it IMO to fix a couple of hum bars.

It seems like the system is grounded, but it looks like I had a ground loop somewhere in the house.

DjPiLL

12-26-06, 12:21 AM

As far as the brightness issue goes... maybe I was exaggerating a little. But the PF60 definitely made a big difference in the picture quality. It definitely produced a brighter and sharper picture on my 503CMX.

Oh... ohe more thing to add... the video hum bars I had only appeared on my 503CMX. I also have a Phillips 50" plasma (newer than the 503CMX). To test... I removed the 503CMX and plugged in my Phillips plasma in (same outlet / same connections). I didn't get any hum bars with the Phillips, so maybe the Phillips had some type if circuitry that made it immune from my hum bars. Very strange that I only got the hum bars with the Pioneer.

But at this point I don't care, since the PF60 made a world of a difference with my Pioneer.

plasmalvr

12-27-06, 07:52 PM

www.monoprice.com is the website that the videophiles here go to buy their cables. The price here can be 50 times lower- yes, 5000% cheaper than "The Name Brand" and much lower than all the others I've seen. I just learned that "cables is cables" especially for short runs as long as you're using the best connection that your unit has a jack for. HDMI as most people know is the best connection. Apparently, the ultra inexpensive cables that this company makes is equal in quality to the most expensive ones that are sold by other companies.

I wonder how long the executives @ Monster Cable have had the P.T. Barnum quote "A Sucker is Born Every Day" hanging on a banner in their corporate headquarters? :mad:

aggiealum

12-29-06, 01:23 PM

Hi, I'm starting to get really overwhelmed with the whole surge protector, isolator, conditioner, UPS business. I'm hoping someone can give me some quick advice as to what I need. My budget bedroom system will basically consist of a Vizio VX32L LCD, Oppo 971 DVD, Nintendo Wii, and my DISH box. I'm debating over the PF30, which I've read good reviews on this site about, but is it worth twice the cost of the PureAV surge protector? The PF30 is less than a benjy right now (to give cost effective analysis). I've looked into other brands too (ie Monster, Panamax), but it seems Belkin PureAV has the best bang for the buck. Thanks in advance for any help!

tundrSQ

12-29-06, 05:56 PM

Looking for something to protect my HDTV (samsung dlp) Like the above poster i am going insane trying to pick one so heres your chance to pick one for me.

1. belkin FP30
2.belkin AP30800-10
3. panamax M5100-EX

I just need to pick one and move on.... :D :D

thanks!!

lcaillo

12-29-06, 09:14 PM

The lack of specifications on the Belkin site bothers me. They have very little to go on. Has anyone found any detail on the protection anyhwere?

tundrSQ

12-30-06, 11:03 AM

adm

12-30-06, 01:59 PM

I picked the Tripp-Lite LC1200

Go figure :D

Hey tundrSQ,

You may not be tooooooo far afoot. In a similar situation as I picked up (2) Tripp-lite HT1010SAT3 for my newly constructed setup. One for the HK 7200 AVR and components that are to be connected to a 'switched outlet', and the other Triplite will have all of the other components (+ a 50" Panny Plasma that is on an Omnimount cantilever mount) that will be active in standby mode with other components that are individually powered up when needed. The components are in side by side compartments of a wall unit I just built.

The reason for the two separate surge/noise surpressors was that I have always been of the persuasion that it is less expensive to replace one surge (even one at this level) than to incur the cost of replacing power switches on the components. Been a fan & user of Isobar/Tripp-lite products for over 20 yrs and I was fortunate enough to pick up this pair at J&R as they had a very sweeeeeet special [~50%]a few months back. :D

Another benifit of this model Tripp-lite is that each has (3) protected input/output Coax F connectors to allow for me to feed in a separate FM antena, a Cable connection, and split of the cable prior to the Tripp-lite [for my computer connections] as as well as allow for additional inputs down the road. From an electric bill point of view, this setup also allows the energy hungry avr to be a bit more energy efficient than in a sleep mode that does not exist for it. :)

..Mark

tundrSQ

12-30-06, 03:33 PM

Hey tundrSQ,

You may not be tooooooo far afoot. In a similar situation as I picked up (2) Tripp-lite HT1010SAT3 for my newly constructed setup. One for the HK 7200 AVR and components that are to be connected to a 'switched outlet', and the other Triplite will have all of the other components (+ a 50" Panny Plasma that is on an Omnimount cantilever mount) that will be active in standby mode with other components that are individually powered up when needed. The components are in side by side compartments of a wall unit I just built.

The reason for the two separate surge/noise surpressors was that I have always been of the persuasion that it is less expensive to replace one surge (even one at this level) than to incur the cost of replacing power switches on the components. Been a fan & user of Isobar/Tripp-lite products for over 20 yrs and I was fortunate enough to pick up this pair at J&R as they had a very sweeeeeet special [~50%]a few months back. :D

Another benifit of this model Tripp-lite is that each has (3) protected input/output Coax F connectors to allow for me to feed in a separate FM antena, a Cable connection, and split of the cable prior to the Tripp-lite [for my computer connections] as as well as allow for additional inputs down the road. From an electric bill point of view, this setup also allows the energy hungry avr to be a bit more energy efficient than in a sleep mode that does not exist for it. :)

..Mark

I am also planing to do the same thing here. The 1200 will be primarily for the DLP since it only has 4 outlets. I will pick up an isobar for the rest of the stuff.

iraweiss

12-31-06, 12:57 PM

I've been thinking of getting a Monster Power HTS 3500 MKII.

I can get a refurbished one for just under a c-note from Shop All Monster or a new one for about 65% more from TV Authority (the Web site claims to have 18 in stock).

What would you do?

gm2376

01-01-07, 12:52 PM

Hey guys, Quick question, i notice aome light flicker and dimming when i power on my components in my house. Should i hook evrything up to a power conditioner. Right now i have a mits wd57732, an hd a1, a ps3 and xbox360 and a onkyo 674 hooked to a plain old monster surge protector. Would a power conditioner be the way to go, and what would be my cheapest solution.
thanks

watsonusn

01-01-07, 02:09 PM

Hey,
I just ordered a surge protector from brickwall, & was was just wondering, for battery backup, would i plug the tv, PS3, ect to the surge protector, then the surge protector into the UPS & the UPS into the wall?

moematthews

01-07-07, 10:42 PM

On the strong advice of a salesman in a higher end independent retailer, I purchased Audioquest NRG-3 and NRG-1.5 power cords for my plasma TV and PVR respectively. Spent more than CDN $600. I had gone in to ask about an ISF calibration, and looked for this salesman specifically, as he has been mentioned positively in another forum. I do not feel he was trying to sell snake oil.

I have noticed no improvement in PQ whatsoever. I continually switch the Audioquest cords back and forth with the stock cords, and the PQ looks exactly the same. I have everything plugged into a midrange Panamax power conditioner.

Is this more "cable snake oil" that I've read about in this forum? I have high quality cables throughout my system, and it's hard to believe that the $450 NRG-3 makes no difference at all. It's at least twice as thick and far heavier than the stock cord, has two RF stoppers and the build quality is obvious. But I just do not see an improvement in PQ with both TV and PVR hooked up with the NRG-3 and 1.5.

The only reason I decided to try them was the salesman told me I could return them if I was not satisfied.

Does anyone have any experience with these cords? Am I missing something? I will keep at it for a few more days, but they are going back to the store if something doesn't change in a hurry. I'm really quite disappointed - I was expecting at least a reasonable improvement.

rennwerkes

01-08-07, 12:25 AM

moematthews

01-08-07, 10:39 PM

I'd return them. Bottom line is if you see a difference and since you don't you haven't received a good return on the money you spent.
My suggestion would be to find a good deal on a decent power cable (under $100) and leave it at that. I found some on that auction site for about $60. I think retail on these was over $200.
Even power conditioners can be a waste of money. Much of the stuff marketed for audio/video is grossly marked up. Go and find a decent Tripplite or similar on that auction site again! (again under $100). Hard to go wrong.

Thanks - that was essentially what I had decided, but I really wanted a reason to keep them, and I am really bad at returning things! And I continued to switch cords watching a movie today. Sometimes I thought I noticed a VERY subtle improvement with the NRG-3, but then I'd swap in the stock cord and realize that I couldn't tell for sure. Obviously not what I wanted. I just wonder if it's even worth replacing the stock cord at all - if a $450 cord results in no improvement, what kind of cord would? (Cord wood??!! - boo. :D )

largtr

01-09-07, 09:34 AM

Just a quick plug. I've been buying cables and some accessories from monoprice since I found them through this forum. Let me tell you, I have been a musician and over-all sound enthusiast for 30+ years. Bought cables from everywhere. For the price and quality, monoprice cannot be beat. I just bought a 35' stereo rca audio cable and I am amazed at the quality of the cable and the plugs. I recently purchased an HDMI cable from them as well. I only want to say, I am totally pleased with the quality of these products. If anyone is wondering whether or not to pay a premium for "Mobster" cables or whatever, don't.

[edit: spelling]

ejunior2

01-10-07, 12:13 PM

The only problem I am seeing with Mono is that half of what I want is back-ordered.

jeepthing77

01-12-07, 12:46 PM

ejunior2

01-12-07, 02:39 PM

I am new here and I have been reading and searching a ton and have found very good info.

I am looking for good surge protection/power conditioner. I really like the look and price of the belkin pureav pf40.

Does anyone have this and or have experience with it. I cant find any local dealers to talk with.

I am not sure that it matters but it will be connected to xbr2, cable box, receiver, and a 360

Thanks

I have the 60. It's a nice unit and give some piece of mind but I don't see any improvments before or after installation.

Got mine from Provanatage. They had the best price going (at the time).

moematthews

01-12-07, 09:14 PM

I have the 60. It's a nice unit and give some piece of mind but I don't see any improvments before or after installation.

Which really makes you wonder how manufacturers can continue to claim that things like power cords and conditioners improve PQ. As I posted above, I saw no difference in switching the stock cord on my plasma and PVR for two Audioquest power cords that were CDN$450 and $160 respectively. The dealer took them back, no questions asked. But that's exactly what he said he would do if I wanted to return them. Nice.

Is anyone able to honestly state that their power conditioner or power cord made a difference? Within reason, of course - I would hope that those several thousand dollar conditioners make a difference.

SirDrexl

01-12-07, 09:40 PM

Which really makes you wonder how manufacturers can continue to claim that things like power cords and conditioners improve PQ. As I posted above, I saw no difference in switching the stock cord on my plasma and PVR for two Audioquest power cords that were CDN$450 and $160 respectively. The dealer took them back, no questions asked. But that's exactly what he said he would do if I wanted to return them. Nice.

Is anyone able to honestly state that their power conditioner or power cord made a difference? Within reason, of course - I would hope that those several thousand dollar conditioners make a difference.

I don't know, but isn't a power conditioner for people who have a ton of gear hooked up? I don't think it's going to make a difference for someone with a plasma TV, digital cable box, and disc player.

moematthews

01-13-07, 10:15 AM

I don't know, but isn't a power conditioner for people who have a ton of gear hooked up? I don't think it's going to make a difference for someone with a plasma TV, digital cable box, and disc player.

Not necesarily, I think. You can buy a power strip\surge protector that is supposed to have power conditioning abilities as well. The theory is that "clean" power is going to result in a better picture, better sound from your audio components - anything, really. That's how the higher end power cords are sold as well - higher quality "perfect surface" copper that has no gaps in the copper, thus resulting in better transmission of power. As I said, I noticed no difference in PQ when using two such cords in my system. That's not to say that a power conditioner costing several thousand dollars would make no difference, but it seems there's a bit of snake oil being sold at the regular consumer level.

lcaillo

01-13-07, 12:17 PM

p3Orion

01-13-07, 03:15 PM

I'm not so much interested in power conditioning to improve picture and/or sound quality, as the result of implementing such products is often subjective, rather than quantifiable. I'm not denying that some of these devices may actually work, but there are so many variables to account for, that to come out and say product "X" improves PQ/SQ is no guarantee. And as Icaillo previously stated it is better to deal with the source of the problem(s) rather than to use power conditioning products alone to address any issues. Ultimately, I am trying to determine if these devices would be beneficial in preventing or reducing the long term effects of voltage fluctuations, particularly brownouts, on A/V components, or if the internal parts, such as power supplies, of quality A/V components can handles such fluctuations without incurring damage. My concern is protecting my equipment first and foremost, and if I notice any PQ/SQ improvements then all the better. :)

lcaillo

01-13-07, 05:38 PM

My experience is that most modern SMPS are quite robust in dealing with fluctuations. Large surges, however, can do damage. If you are in an area that experiences lots of lightning like we are, I suggest good basic surge suppresion on all lines entering the system. In every case I suggest verifying the grounding on the system.

p3Orion

01-13-07, 11:33 PM

Yeah, I will definitely get surge protection. I've narrowed my choices to the Tripp Lite Isobar HT10DBS or the Belkin PureAV™ Home Theater Power Console PF31. The PF31 is about twice the price of the HT10DBS, and offers more features which may not be necessary, or offer any substantial improvements. I'm leaning more towards the Tripp Lite. :)

lcaillo

01-13-07, 11:40 PM

How are you comparing them? I have been looking for specs on the tripplite but can't find any current ratings nor specs on the coax and other lines suppression. It has a suspicisouly high joule rating for a unit with no published max current ratings.

p3Orion

01-14-07, 01:26 AM

I couldn't find any listing for Maximum Input Current for the Tripp Lite HT10DBS. Only Output volt amp capacity (amps) and Output watt capacity (watts), which are listed as 12 amps and 1440 watts, respectively. The only company that I've come across that lists very detailed product info is APC, which is why I'm also considering the C5 or C10 AV Power Filters. I believe APC provides some of the info you're looking for in their product literature, specifically Maximum Input Current (15A) and Input Breaker Capacity (15A).

I put the HT10DBS in the running based on the recommendation from Audioholics. They recommend it for A/V systems ranging from $5,000 to $25,000. Whether or not they have financial incentive to recommend certain brands, I don't know, but its seems like a quality product. Here's the link if you're interested: http://www.audioholics.com/showcase/systemguide/index.php

Who would have thought that I would invest as much time, if not more on researching power protection products. It's getting ridiculous. :p

lcaillo

01-14-07, 08:16 AM

CyberPower at least gives current ratings. You can get this one for as cheap as $20.
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/1090.asp

Panamax provides more detail than most but are a bit more pricy for similar protection. The protection on the cable and data lines may be better, but the MOV complement and layout is similar in the CP(I have them both and have taken them apart), even though the Joule rating is very different.
http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=1&sec=detail&id=249&ly=h

The panamax products have proven to be very good here, where we have a great deal of lightning. They have a long track record for quality products. I use both of the above in my systems. I cam across the CP looking for a better value product and it seems fine.

I agree on the time required. All the hype and BS that you find is hard to wade through.

strutter

01-14-07, 11:20 AM

what about a brickwall?
http://brickwall.thomasnet.com/item/audio-surge-protectors/eight-outlet-audio-surge-protectors/pw8r15aud?&forward=1

lcaillo

01-14-07, 02:41 PM

Brickwall filters are great filters, but I feel more comfortable with MOVs across all three lines in case the neutral or the ground go high, which can happen in nearby lightning strikes. MOVs have proven to be good cheap protection. At over $250 to put a massive inductor on the hot line only, it seems like a poor value to me. It also does nothing to protect the other incoming lines such as cable, sat, data, phone, or antenna. Many of the damaged units we see have been due to problems coming in on these.

Good grounding and relatively inexpensive MOV based systems have worked great for our clients in one of the worst areas in the US for lightning. Massive inductor based series systems make great filters but are limited in practical application.

p3Orion

01-14-07, 04:58 PM

I was interested in the Panamax line for awhile, until I found out that they must be purchased from an authorized dealer to get warranty coverage. That was a deal breaker, since that allows Panamax to control pricing. Authorized dealer prices are 100% marked up compared to other online resellers.

lcaillo

01-14-07, 05:05 PM

Like I said, I found the CyberPower 1090 while searching for a better value than the Panamax. I feel it has comparable protection. I also needed 10 outlets instead of 8. Panamax has, however, been great about replacing damaged and defective product, however. I don't have a clue about CyberPower.

Danny V

01-30-07, 04:50 PM

Pardon the interruption...

Hello Mr. Caillouet,

Please allow me to ask you a question.
I'm looking into protecting my 50" PANNY 600U and my other components.
My Panny is mounted above a fireplace which has an outlet behind it.
My components are in a cabinet under the hearth using another outlet.
I need a small unit for the Panny. It will be the only thing plugged into this unit.
I am looking at the "HTPOWERBAR10" for the components in the lower cabinet.
After reading much of this thread, I called Tripplite to listen to their suggestions.

They suggested the "Traveler" for the plasma, due to its compact size and my only needing 1 outlet.
Am I experiencing an inferiority complex by feeling this unit could be to small to handle her, err um... the plasmas needs?
The specs are here.
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=121

I also asked if there were any warranty issues if purchasing from unauthorized dealers. They told me there were not any on units with lifetime warranties.

Thank you in advance,
Danny V.

P.S. I'm in Orlando. lightning lightning lightning

ejunior2

01-30-07, 06:03 PM

lcaillo

01-30-07, 08:28 PM

Danny V

01-30-07, 10:33 PM

Could you reference the built in to receptacle units?

Thanks,

Danny V.

lcaillo

01-30-07, 11:01 PM

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=22&sec=detail&id=219&ly=h

or another optionis to use one that protects the whole house

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100396389

Danny V

01-30-07, 11:21 PM

Thank you Sir... you are, as they say, a gentleman and a scholar.

Danny V.

lcaillo

01-30-07, 11:44 PM

I must have some multiple personality disorder...I have run the gamut from pedantic **$hole to gentleman and scholar. I wonder if changing my signature from Locke to scribblings in the bathroom of a blues bar is related.

Thanks for getting the spelling on the name right above.

Danny V

01-31-07, 09:03 AM

Should I be concerned with the 3 yr warranty of the MIW Power from Panamax?
The Traveler, from Tripplite is a lifer.
I like the MIW, and would prefer to install it over the plug in.

lcaillo

01-31-07, 09:22 AM

The build quality and the MOVs on the Panamax looks like the insides of the other units that have lifetime warranties to me. I am not sure why they have a different warranty, but I can't recall ever having one go bad. Look around, you might find other similar products if the warranty concerns you. There may be something better out there.

dsmith901

02-06-07, 03:31 PM

Here is an interesting technical piece from Zero Surge, who invented the series mode protection system used by them and Brickwall, Surgex, and Adcom (possibly others).

http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/moderes.html

This is a very informative article and others are linked on the left of the page under "Surge Suppression Info." Series mode is probably the best protection you can get from large surges and nearby lightning strikes and they don't wear out like MOVs. The only problem I have with series mode, and most other common surge (spike) protection devices, is they invariably degrade audio in a high end audio system. At least they do in mine. For the more typical user they should be fine, I suppose, but I had to pay considerably more to get good surge protection (PS Audio Power Director 3.5) without degrading my audio.

Anyway, the guys at Zero Surge are first rate and know as much about power protection as anyone. IMO they are a good source of information and advice (if you are not an audiophile).

reye

02-06-07, 03:53 PM

Any body know the difference between dual link and single link on HDMI to DVI?

Thanks

blackwell

02-13-07, 10:51 AM

I'm purchasing a panny px 60u 37" plasma and will hook up to a cable box. This is our first hd set and I know very little about them but am looking for a simple set up with decent quality. I was planning on picking up the hdmi cable but is there other cables that I will need. I will use the tv for sports and dvd's do I need separate cable for dvd?

tdkme

02-15-07, 08:38 AM

I have a receiver with 1 optical and one Coaxial but i have 2 fiber audio outputs i want to connect. Is there some type of y splitter or maybe a selector that won't degrade the signal.

First time poster, as you can tell from my posts, but I have been reading from this sight for about a week. All I can say is WOW! This place is a dream come true to anyone wanting to do stuff on your own, of course with all of your great help! :D

tdkme

02-15-07, 09:32 AM

If I get a 50" plasma Panny, have a dvd player, dvr, and surround sound receiver, do you think i would need a surge protector that has noise filtering. I have heard stay away from monster power, but what is a decent alternative. I don't want to spend like $200 for one since i don't have that great of a system. So I guess my question is, I have an ok surge protector right now, would the one with clean power only be needed if i have snow coming through my line or is it just good to get no matter what.

Capecodhack

02-16-07, 11:22 AM

In my haste to set up my new Sony 46S2010, I called Comcast in advance and was told that I needed a DVI to HDMI for my DVR and, after reading the raves about Monoprice, decided to order a DVI-DHMI cable and some component cables for my my dvd. As it turns out, I screwed up- TWICE. My DVR doesn't have a DVI output and I mistakenly ordered the lesser quality component cables. I contacted Monoprice and have to say that I'm blown away by their level of service and attention to customer needs. They're exchanging the cables for the correct ones, no questions asked, and actually apologized to me about any inconvenience that this is causing me (as though it somehow was their fault). I showed the Comcast tech my DVI cable (wrong cable) and he was amazed by the quality and the price. He had never heard of Monoprice but quickly wrote down their site address. Thanks avsforum for bringing companies like this to our attention. :)

Calgaryconsumer1

02-16-07, 03:57 PM

Can Anyone suggest a cheaper alternative to this devide for my new Sammy LNS4692D. I will be installing a receptical in the wall behind my wall mount and want built in Surge protection. But I would like one that is inset. ANy hints would be great. I have tried a lot of searches here on things like " surge receptical" etc. to no avail. I did see Panamax as well.

QZ1

02-16-07, 07:20 PM

Is there anything wrong with their 'lesser quality' component cables or did you have a reason for needing their 'higher quality' cables?

AV Doogie

02-16-07, 09:19 PM

Panamax, hubbell ( http://www.growtron.com/Hubbell-Bryant/tvss/index2.htm ), Leviton, Furman (I think is now owned by Panamax). intermatic...

I would try some of these manufactures to see if they produce what you are looking for...

Lenore

02-17-07, 04:21 PM

After reading threads on this forum, I put together a system and would like the best cables and or best way to hook the system together.

It starts with a Sony 40 in. XBR2 that will need to be connected to a Brighthouse Digital Box and a DVR. These will go with my Onkyo TX-SR674S and the OppO 970HD.
I will also use a Trip-lite power conditioner either HT 10DBS or the HT POWERBAR 10.

How should these be connected? HDMI , component. What cables to buy Each should be less than 6 ft.

Thanks for any help.

ryan8886

02-18-07, 10:38 AM

It is not a "theory" at all in the scientific use of the word. It is a marketing claim and the claim of individuals who believe that they have seen improvements. There are rare cases where I have seen noise reduction in products with conventional power supplies for audio with line filtering, but they are rare and are usually better solved by dealing with the source. In the case of video displays, there is no good argument that I can find for how power line filtering nor power cables can make visible differences. The types of power supplies used in modern displays almost assures that these differences will not be found.

After talking yesterday with a friend, who is a professor in the computer networking field, I have to back lcaillo up. What was told to me is this:

1) High quality surge protection is a MUST if you value your equipment.

2) While power conditioning and voltage regulation are very critical in the computer fields, particularly server-based network applications, you will likely see minimal to no visual or audible improvement in a home theatre setting.

3) There's nothing wrong with hooking these devices up to your system, as they cause no harm and voltage regulation can help in prolonging the life of your equipment if you live in an area with a lot of fluctuations.

He recommended APC as "first tier" gear (as far as the computer weenies are concerned) followed by Belkin and Tripp Lite.

I'm looking at the APC H10 and taking the approach that it is a very high quality, expensive surge protector that has a couple of cute options I can Ooo-Ahh my friends with who know less about this stuff than I! :rolleyes: The only visual upside to it I'm expecting to acheive is better cable management....which is also reason enough for some to purchase one of these little toys.

For the record, so far, APC is the only company I've found in my research that does NOT require you to unplug your gear during a lightning storm (at least for the H10). Most, including Belkin, do require that for their "warranty" to apply. I wouldn't want to lay odds on anybody's hardware standing up to a direct hit from lightning, but they and the computer industry do seem pretty confident in the surge handling ability of their product.

AV Doogie

02-18-07, 07:12 PM

For the record, so far, APC is the only company I've found in my research that does NOT require you to unplug your gear during a lightning storm (at least for the H10). Most, including Belkin, do require that for their "warranty" to apply. I wouldn't want to lay odds on anybody's hardware standing up to a direct hit from lightning, but they and the computer industry do seem pretty confident in the surge handling ability of their product.

I would not infer from lack of information on the part of APC, that their units are better than anyone elses, due to unplugging during a lightning storm. No one builds a TVSS unit which can withstand a direct lightning strike...or even an extremely large surge for that matter. Marketing gimmicks aside, I would not even rely upon a warranty from these manufacturers for replacement of equipment...they are notoriously poor at responding to claims.

lcaillo

02-18-07, 08:25 PM

No one builds a TVSS unit which can withstand a direct lightning strike...or even an extremely large surge for that matter.

How do you come to this as a meaningful or useful conclusion? What exactly constitutes a direct strike, or a large surge in your opinion? Most damage is actually caused by nearby strikes and most well designed MOV based surge suppressors provide excellent protection. I have seen many results of nearby strikes in which properly installed surge suppressors had connected equipment with no damage while many other devices in the home were toast. I have also seen many where the surge suppressor sacrificed itself, saved the equipment, and the manufacturer replaced the unit with a current model with no questions asked.

To imply that surge suppressors are not effective is simply inconsistent with my 30 years of experience with them.

The APC products have rather poor and very limited specs in many cases, and many do not cover all incoming signal lines. IMO, they are not a good choice for AV systems. It is possible to get good protection for far less money, however, by simply somparing specifications and verifying that units adhere to industry standards such as UL 1449.

Good value surge suppression:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812120408

ryan8886

02-18-07, 11:37 PM

I would not infer from lack of information on the part of APC, that their units are better than anyone elses, due to unplugging during a lightning storm.

It states in the manual for the H10 that it is not necessary to unplug during a lightnening storm.

The APC products have rather poor and very limited specs in many cases, and many do not cover all incoming signal lines. IMO, they are not a good choice for AV systems. It is possible to get good protection for far less money, however, by simply somparing specifications and verifying that units adhere to industry standards such as UL 1449.

lcaillo,

I've figured out enough of this to know that there's a fair bit of snake oil when it comes to these devices. From reading some of your posts, you seem to know your stuff on this. Problem is, I keep getting different information from various people and places.....and ALL of them seem to know their stuff! :confused:
I'm looking for all the opinions I can get. So why not APC? ( I am also considering a PureAV PF60) The H10 I'm looking at seems to have good numbers (just shy of 5000 joules...although I'm having a hard time finding a clamping speed for the MOV's), is UL 1449 compliant, covers all the incoming signal lines I need and many highly recommend the name. Audioholics even uses the H10 on their reference system. I've spent thousands on the equipment in my system and can't afford to replace if it gets melted. Even at $200, it would still be my cheapest piece of gear.
It's also not uncommon for me to come home 2-3 times a month and find the power has blinked off/on while I was gone (as evidenced by the need to reset all the friggin clocks! :( ) It's for this reason I'm looking at the H10, as it does voltage regulation duties as well as surge protection (the PF60 does not). The grid around here can be kind of flakey. Last, I like the idea of a rack unit for cable management.
Any input you can give is appreciated!

lcaillo

02-19-07, 06:57 AM

It states in the manual for the H10 that it is not necessary to unplug during a lightnening storm.

lcaillo,

I've figured out enough of this to know that there's a fair bit of snake oil when it comes to these devices. From reading some of your posts, you seem to know your stuff on this. Problem is, I keep getting different information from various people and places.....and ALL of them seem to know their stuff! :confused:
I'm looking for all the opinions I can get. So why not APC? ( I am also considering a PureAV PF60) The H10 I'm looking at seems to have good numbers (just shy of 5000 joules...although I'm having a hard time finding a clamping speed for the MOV's), is UL 1449 compliant, covers all the incoming signal lines I need and many highly recommend the name. Audioholics even uses the H10 on their reference system. I've spent thousands on the equipment in my system and can't afford to replace if it gets melted. Even at $200, it would still be my cheapest piece of gear.
It's also not uncommon for me to come home 2-3 times a month and find the power has blinked off/on while I was gone (as evidenced by the need to reset all the friggin clocks! :( ) It's for this reason I'm looking at the H10, as it does voltage regulation duties as well as surge protection (the PF60 does not). The grid around here can be kind of flakey. Last, I like the idea of a rack unit for cable management.
Any input you can give is appreciated!

APC has some fine stuff and some poor values. You have to get into their better units to get good protection, and even then they don't give very detailed specs on their units. Many of the cheaper units that people are buying are a poor value in terms of surge suppression and/or do not have pure sinewave output for the regulation or UPS functions. Look carefully at the models that you are interested in. The H10 has only a 12A current handling and is not a pure sine wave output device. You can get similar, if not better protection without dirty UPS power, and a lifetime warranty for about 10% of the price.

Look for UL 1449 certification, three way protection with MOVs across all combinations of H,N & G, coverage for all incoming signal lnes to your system, maximum peak current ratings, lowest voltage let-through, and clear specifications for suppression on all lines. The H10 is probably OK for protection but it does not clearly state three way protection nor detail the clamping on the signal lines.

Much of the snake oil has to do with promoting the need for expensive filtering or regulation systems, and the need for a UPS. For most systems all that is needed is a good surge suppressor and careful checking of the grounding of all lines into the system. In most cases filtering makes no difference in the performance of the system and regulation/UPS are simply not needed in terms of protection at all. You can get at least as good suppresion for about $20 than what you get in a $200 UPS in many cases. On-line regulation without pure sine wave output seems silly to me, as these outputs are usually far noisier than unfiltered a.c. lines.

Why do you need a UPS? Other than a little conveinience in an outage, is it worth the cost, the need for maintenence over time, the risk of added problems in the system due to crappy power output, and the environmental consequences of all those batteries needing to be disposed of eventually? An then there is the added cost for something that you don't need...it puzzles me how people will search for good deals on a UPS when al they need is a decent surge suppressor and could save much more.

Two good values in surge suppression:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812120408

is hard to beat, or for a company with a longer track record and excellent reputaion, and over/under-voltage cutoff feature,

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=2&sec=detail&id=249&ly=v

...and verify the grounding is solid and done properly on your system.

ryan8886

02-19-07, 10:21 AM

APC has some fine stuff and some poor values. You have to get into their better units to get good protection, and even then they don't give very detailed specs on their units. Many of the cheaper units that people are buying are a poor value in terms of surge suppression and/or do not have pure sinewave output for the regulation or UPS functions. Look carefully at the models that you are interested in. The H10 has only a 12A current handling and is not a pure sine wave output device. You can get similar, if not better protection without dirty UPS power, and a lifetime warranty for about 10% of the price.

Look for UL 1449 certification, three way protection with MOVs across all combinations of H,N & G, coverage for all incoming signal lnes to your system, maximum peak current ratings, lowest voltage let-through, and clear specifications for suppression on all lines. The H10 is probably OK for protection but it does not clearly state three way protection nor detail the clamping on the signal lines.

Much of the snake oil has to do with promoting the need for expensive filtering or regulation systems, and the need for a UPS. For most systems all that is needed is a good surge suppressor and careful checking of the grounding of all lines into the system. In most cases filtering makes no difference in the performance of the system and regulation/UPS are simply not needed in terms of protection at all. You can get at least as good suppresion for about $20 than what you get in a $200 UPS in many cases. On-line regulation without pure sine wave output seems silly to me, as these outputs are usually far noisier than unfiltered a.c. lines.

Why do you need a UPS? Other than a little conveinience in an outage, is it worth the cost, the need for maintenence over time, the risk of added problems in the system due to crappy power output, and the environmental consequences of all those batteries needing to be disposed of eventually? An then there is the added cost for something that you don't need...it puzzles me how people will search for good deals on a UPS when al they need is a decent surge suppressor and could save much more.

Two good values in surge suppression:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812120408

is hard to beat, or for a company with a longer track record and excellent reputaion, and over/under-voltage cutoff feature,

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=2&sec=detail&id=249&ly=v

...and verify the grounding is solid and done properly on your system.

Thanks for the info. I'm not looking for UPS, and the H10 is not a UPS device, as far as I can tell. I'll look into your other solutions listed above! Thanks!

markrubin

05-07-07, 06:41 PM

unstuck

kevinca

07-04-07, 07:12 PM

For those of you still reading this thread. I think I have the answer for why someone would use one of these. The jacklegs that built my new house put MY ENTIRE DEN ON A SINGLE CIRCUIT! This circuit is also tied into my ceiling fan!!! Needless to say, I can hear mild humming occasionally on things like the headphone jack of my laptop. I have a feeling that the power conditioner is perfectly suited for this.

That said, I did not want to spend much money on one of these. I just wanted everyone to know that the belkin PureAV PF40l ($110 at provantage) is $69 at my local Sams Club. I guess no one at Sams bought the theory either, their loss, my gain.

strutter

07-04-07, 10:52 PM

yep. i still read it whenever anything is posted to it.

there aught to be some kind of code against wiring a room like that.

Kal Rubinson

07-04-07, 10:55 PM

Splotto

07-05-07, 09:33 AM

Hello:

I just had 2 individual circuits added to my HT room for my equipment. Provided you have a trussed attic it won't be that big an expense.

Splotto

ddingle

08-31-07, 11:36 AM

I have experimented with several Power Conditioning products over the years. I recall the Adcom ACE 515 from the 1980s as my initial foray into the field. Not really any huge differences to be noted.
Recently I saw a product that seemed to be an ulimate form of isolation from the "grid" in general. A double conversion AC To DC and back to AC again regenerator,It's 1050 watt capacity is pretty darn big.Includes a battery as well. So for short periods you can run disconnected from the outlet.
My own Power source! If there were to be any sonic or visual differences this would be the best way to test them.
I hooked it up to my home theater system Sony Pearl, HR20 Directv receiver,Escient/Sony CD and DVD player and a Sony 9000ES receiver.
Watching a HD Twins game did not really show much of any improvement, Maybe, some small details,but nothing to scream about.
The game went sour for the Twins,so I switched to some familiar CDs from the Escient. There is a Celine Dion song on the Titanic soundtrack that I have heard and demonstrated many times. I could not deny it, everything about the replay seemed better, more detail,better imaging etc. I mean really easy to notice. As I listened to more cuts the differences continued to be rather grandiose!
I am thinking most of the difference is in the amplifier/processor? It is an all Digital model. At any rate it seems that something either lacking in the incoming power or distortion adding to it negatively effects the sound in particular. Unfortunately $2400 retail for this Purepower model.
The more expensive a system is the more value this would add it would seem?
I am recommending "Getting off the Grid" to picky audiophiles.
I am sure there are other products like this out there. PS Audio as I recall made a smaller version.

EscapeVelocity

08-31-07, 08:18 PM

bump

MashuriBC

11-25-07, 10:23 PM

APC has some fine stuff and some poor values. You have to get into their better units to get good protection, and even then they don't give very detailed specs on their units. Many of the cheaper units that people are buying are a poor value in terms of surge suppression and/or do not have pure sinewave output for the regulation or UPS functions. Look carefully at the models that you are interested in. The H10 has only a 12A current handling and is not a pure sine wave output device. You can get similar, if not better protection without dirty UPS power, and a lifetime warranty for about 10% of the price.

Are you suggesting that the H10 is a UPS? I don't think you did your homework here. It's not and it regulates voltage without a battery (as a result the sinewave is only altered by the filters for noise). FYI, APC's S and J series ARE UPS's and they DO output pure sinewave. As for input amperage, they claim 12A because they're one of the few companies that actually adheres to accepted industry standards. The H10 has the following certs: CSA, FCC Part 15 Class B, FCC Part 68, Industry Canada, UL 1012, UL 1449, UL 498. Here's an excerpt from Audioholics interview with APC's Steve Williams (I'd include a link but haven't posted enough):

What makes other brands of power products not likely to pass these certification tests ?
The biggest violation we see is fudging the product rating. APC products are limited by the standards which require the input rating to be a maximum of 80% of the cord plug rating. As a result we can only rate our product 12A max. Many of our competitors cheat and rate their products 15A. For more detail on this subject please read the following excerpt from an article on the APC A/V web site:

It's important to note that even UL-Listed products can have flaws. A classic example is the 15-Amp rating that appears on many products provided with a 15A plug. This violates the UL standard and the NEC, which specifies that a product can only be rated at 80 percent of the plug attached to it.

Why does the rear panel of the S15/H15 say 120V / 12A? Does this mean the power conditioner is fuse-protected not to deliver any more than 1,440W from the wall outlet?

No, as explained above the product is purposefully limiting the end user not to connect more than 12A of load to it. In reality, you could keep loading it until the internal circuit breaker (15A) trips, but that would be misuse. Again, we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage by doing what is right. Our competition allows the customer to load up to 15A while we limit the customer to only 12A. It is important to understand that this 12A refers to steady state and the unit can source in excess of 30A short-term to handle large inrush currents drawn by professional-grade A/V equipment. APC specifically tests for this by repeatedly cold starting high power A/V equipment well over 6,000 times. In one case the limit on the test was the fact that the amplifier used broke because it could not handle that many starts and stops, but the S type power conditioner kept on running.

I guess I have a different outlook because I come from the computer field and have dealt with APC extensively for high-end server protection. One thing I learned is that this company stood out from the others in giving the least BS (snake oil), adhering to standards and delivering quality products. Given my experience with them, I would trust their product claims above anyone else in the business.

lcaillo

11-26-07, 06:33 PM

Are you suggesting that the H10 is a UPS? I don't think you did your homework here. It's not and it regulates voltage without a battery (as a result the sinewave is only altered by the filters for noise). FYI, APC's S and J series ARE UPS's and they DO output pure sinewave. As for input amperage, they claim 12A because they're one of the few companies that actually adheres to accepted industry standards. The H10 has the following certs: CSA, FCC Part 15 Class B, FCC Part 68, Industry Canada, UL 1012, UL 1449, UL 498. Here's an excerpt from Audioholics interview with APC's Steve Williams (I'd include a link but haven't posted enough):

I guess I have a different outlook because I come from the computer field and have dealt with APC extensively for high-end server protection. One thing I learned is that this company stood out from the others in giving the least BS (snake oil), adhering to standards and delivering quality products. Given my experience with them, I would trust their product claims above anyone else in the business.

OK, I guess I was wrong about the H10. I must have been looking at the specs of some other unit. So if it is not a UPS and is a power conditioner, it is still a poor value, as the need for a power conditioner beyond basic surge suppression is rarely justified for most systems. I still maintain that most systems only need the kind of protection that you can get for a fraction of the cost, along with attention to grounding. For half the cost of the H10 you could protect your entire house with whole house suppressor, as well as every system in the house with local surge suppression. If one needs additional line filtering, it can likely be accomplished a lot cheaper. I have yet to see actual evidence of picture improvements due to line conditioners in typical systems.

exige

11-27-07, 05:15 AM

hi. i just got a sharp 46" 64U for my apartment and have it hooked it only to a wii and hd receiver from twc. im using a cyberpower surge protector, one similar to the one lcaillo posted. im hoping to get a xbox360/ps3 soon. do i need a power conditioner or anything else to protect my electronics? thanks.

MashuriBC

11-30-07, 04:42 PM

OK, I guess I was wrong about the H10. I must have been looking at the specs of some other unit. So if it is not a UPS and is a power conditioner, it is still a poor value, as the need for a power conditioner beyond basic surge suppression is rarely justified for most systems. I still maintain that most systems only need the kind of protection that you can get for a fraction of the cost, along with attention to grounding. For half the cost of the H10 you could protect your entire house with whole house suppressor, as well as every system in the house with local surge suppression. If one needs additional line filtering, it can likely be accomplished a lot cheaper. I have yet to see actual evidence of picture improvements due to line conditioners in typical systems.

That's based on the assumption one lives in a house. I live in a busy apartment complex and the power supply is far from clean. My voltage fluctuates (especially during our 100+ degree summers) and all sorts of noise gets fed into our supply by whatever power tools / devices are being used by my neighbors and/or hired help. Having a power conditioner with AVR is a godsend here and I immediately noticed the difference in audio and visual quality. Once I get my own house, however, I will make sure to follow your advice for clean power. Until then, I can't live without this H10 and, for the $200 I paid, nothing else even comes close to the features and protection it offers.