Sure Chloe plays her part well.
She's a manipulative BITCH.
She dumps her crap on Margy all the time and lies to Barb all the time as well as Bill.
She gets no pity or props from me for fixing the sink. She actually looks like the kind of girl who beat up all the boys when she was younger.
She deserves what she gets.

I'm waiting for Marg to kick her lanky ass !

[QUOTE=audiomagnate]
...
The fact that so many people hate her means Cloe's doing a great job of acting.

QUOTE]

I happen to like her the most on the show. She seems the most real character of the bunch. Besides, if she wasn't on the show, it really wouldn't be as much fun now would it? Just look how many posts on this thread are about her.

I was a bit confused by the garbage disposal sequence. What did she think was going to happen when she tried to get the family discount..? Here they are, trying to keep the polygamy a secret and then Chloe goes and tries to get a family discount, with no reasonable explanation why she is "family"..? Her best course of action would have been to just leave when the card was declined, but I guess that wouldn't have made for good TV. Maybe she's trying to "out" the family...at a store that's owned by the family's husband..it just didn't ring true somehow...I guess they're showing how frustrated Chloe is at being "second wife", but you'd think she would know better than to pull a stunt like that.

Part of it may be that Chloe is so stunned by the magnitude of her credit card debt, that she's desperately looking for discounts of any type anywhere and everywhere - anything to save money at this point, and she's not thinking too clearly about the potential consequences.

It is interesting to see the similarities between Chloe, the second wife and Bill's own mother, whom up until Bill's bribe last night, was a second wife as well.

Classic "middle child" syndrome.

It is interesting to see the similarities between Chloe, the second wife and Bill's own mother, whom up until Bill's bribe last night, was a second wife as well.
What's also interesting is that, from what I gather, Bill's father was in line to be the Prophet and got swindled out of it somehow. It will be interesting to see in a backstory if there was any motivation, other than love, for Bill taking Chloe as a second wife.

This show as really grown on me, good stuff.

Classic "middle child" syndrome.

NOW THAT'S FUNNY !

I think this show is great. Interesting to see that the common male fantasy of having multiple women at once has a dark side. Who knew the Mormons had it like that eh? I dunno if Bill can stand all of that estrogen!!!

I think this show is great. Interesting to see that the common male fantasy of having multiple women at once has a dark side. Who knew the Mormons had it like that eh?

"The Mormons" haven't "had it like that" since the 1890's. As has been mentioned many times (and still bears repeating, evidently :rolleyes: ), the LDS Church banned polygamy at that time and denounces it to this day. There are no Mormon polygamists, period.

the LDS Church banned polygamy at that time and denounces it to this day. There are no Mormon polygamists, period.

Only because they wanted Statehood. Amazing how these prophets can have revelations from God at the most opportunistic political & social moments.

OH PLEASE !

Her rack rates third out of the three wives, with 1 and 3 tied for first.

she's got a homely look about her, maybe it's the long horse face and skinny lanky body.



I came across an interesting link that could shed (pardon the pun) more light on this. Not sure if it would be taboo to post though.

"Fry sauce"? Never heard of it.

Whenever that question was asked of me the first 7 months I lived here, I would say "do I want what??? What the hell is fry sauce??

The French habit of eating fries with mayo may be disgusting to some, but fry sauce is a close second, IMO.

Only because they wanted Statehood. Amazing how these prophets can have revelations from God at the most opportunistic political & social moments.

Of course they banned it because they wanted statehood, but it was already falling out of favor with the mainstream Church by that time. In any event, it was banned long ago, every Mormon who ever practiced it is long since dead, and it's a shame that these people are still tarred with that brush over a century later because some isolated and rejected groups of non-Mormon knuckleheads still think that God thinks it's a good idea. It's like continuing to tar all southerners with the broad and discredited brush of slavery.

I came across an interesting link that could shed (pardon the pun) more light on this. Not sure if it would be taboo to post though.

It would be taboo to post the pic (and not because of the large mole ;) ).

it was already falling out of favor with the mainstream Church by that time.

If it was anything like this show portrays, it's not hard to see why.

It would be taboo to post the pic (and not because of the large mole ;) ).

But it's not taboo to post the URL for the pic, right? :p

The biggest downside of polygamy is the fact that competition for women would be insane. If the average was 4 wives it would be like females on the market would be reduced by 75%.

The biggest downside of polygamy is the fact that competition for women would be insane. If the average was 4 wives it would be like females on the market would be reduced by 75%.
From what I've read, the older males fix that problem by running off the younger males. In the links I posted aways back, there are stories where teenage males have been run off the "compound", in fact, in this story, wasn't Bill chased out of Juniper Creek?

But it's not taboo to post the URL for the pic, right? :p

Warning: don't click this link if you aren't at least 18.

I checked the FAQ's & didn't see anything forbidding linking to outside sources for info, but please let me know if it shouldn't be posted & I'll delete the link from this post.

http://bpfacs.blogspot.com/

Warning: don't click this link if you aren't at least 18.

I checked the FAQ's & didn't see anything forbidding linking to outside sources for info, but please let me know if it shouldn't be posted & I'll delete the link from this post.

http://bpfacs.blogspot.com/


YUK !
She's gross.

YUK !
She's gross.



Ummm..... ok..... :rolleyes:

Okay. . . Let's get a few facts straight about polygamy in the Mormon church. In all due respect to "Timpanogos", a lot of what he and others have said about Mormon polygamy is just propaganda printed in Ensign magazines or taught in the "Gospel Doctrine" classes of the LDS church. It is "watered down" and does not reflect reality. Since I am a member of the LDS church and also a studier of LDS history (for over 40 years), let's at least get a few facts straight. And just for verification purposes, the information that I am presenting here was previously presented as a lesson in a "High Priests" group priesthood class in an LDS ward in Salt Lake City in the presence of a General Authority of the LDS church who freely participated in the discussions.

One thing to remember is that the LDS church is rather embarrassed about polygamy and has gone to great lengths to suppress detailed information about it. In fact, even in their current yearly "Almanac" they completely omit references to past polygamy even going so far as to either listing only ONE wife for early church leaders or none at all even though they had dozens of wives. So here are a few (of many) myths.

Myth: Even when polygamy was practiced by the Mormon church, it was never more than 7-9% of the total Mormon population that participated.

I'm afraid that is not accurate. If you look at actual studies done on Mormon polygamy, you get a more realistic result. The Frank Esshom study estimated that 25-30% of Utah Mormons were polygamists. Larry Logue, in a more resent study, found some 33% of Mormon households were polygamist. Lowell Bennion, Jr. estimates that 20-40% of Mormon families were polygamist (The Mormon People: Their Character and Traditions, 1980, Charles Redd Monograph, BYU, pp. 59-60; The Journal of Mormon History, Vol. 11 [1984], p. 9; Richard Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy, 1986, pg. 91)

Myth: The timing of it might be related to the fact that there was an great excess of women joining the church in the middle 1800's, compared to the number of men.

I'm afraid that is a common LDS "urban legend". Just one quote here (of many). "The claims of surplus women is not valid, since the U.S. census from 1850 to 1940 and all available records of the Utah church show that men outnumbered women in the church and in Utah (Donna Hill, Joseph Smith: The First Mormon, 1977, p. 360).

Myth: Polygamy ended in 1890 with the issue of the "Manifesto" by Wilford Woodruff (then LDS prophet).

Despite numerous denials by high officials, many General Authorities continued polygamous cohabitation long after the Manifesto. At least 61% of the General Authorities of 1890 father children after the Manifesto, including Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant and at least nine other apostles. (Utah Historical Quarterly, Vol 46 #1 [Winter, 1978], pp. 24-36.

President Joseph F. Smith's wives bore him 13 children after the Manifesto, even though he publically testified he was not "cohabiting" with them (Dialogue, Spring 1985, p. 83)

" . . . still, 11 general authorities, including Heber J. Grant, father 76 children by 27 plural wives during the years 1890-1905." (Richard Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy, 1986, p. 160)

At least 3300 children were born to men who married polygamously with church authority from 1890 through 1904. (Dialogue, Spring 1985, pp. 3-104).

And even though the LDS church does not recognize polygamy on the "earth" today (in order to obey the law of the land), they still allow Mormon men to be "sealed for eternity" to more than one wife even today if a previous wife dies. In fact, one of the current LDS apostles (Elder Russell M. Nelson) was just recently sealed for eternity to second wife following the death of his first wife about a year ago.

I bring this up because, as a Mormon myself, I just cannot stand misinformation Anybody who goes to the BYU library or even on the internet can certainly look up actual historical facts about polygamy instead of relying on the very "limited" version the LDS church provides to their members.

And in all fairness to Mormon posters here on this board, many are just repeating what they have been fed by very diluted LDS information in LDS church meetings or Family Home Evening manuals.

I was disappointed. No mention of fry sauce whatsoever, which is breaking from the local realism.

Yeah . . . When I grew up in Salt Lake City, we made very frequent trips to Arctic Circle for fries and the 'fry sauce." At the time, I didn't even know it was a Utah novelty. It was just good.

It would have been good to put that into the show. Yeah, people might not have heard of it, but it would have made the show more authentic. Hopefully the writers read the forums and will insert a reference to "fry sauce" in a later episode.

Okay. . . Let's get a few facts straight about polygamy in the Mormon church. <SNIP>

Thank you so much for the referenced/sourced information. Thanks also for taking our somewhat provocative views of the show & the surrounding elements for just being the simple comments that they were. Most of us obviously have a lot to learn, but that won't stop our mindless jabs at the show (all in good fun, of course).

Ummm..... ok..... :rolleyes:

I believe he was only looking at her face :)

Warning: don't click this link if you aren't at least 18.

I checked the FAQ's & didn't see anything forbidding linking to outside sources for info, but please let me know if it shouldn't be posted & I'll delete the link from this post.

http://bpfacs.blogspot.com/
Well, I think this helps determine that she probably doesn't have a nudity clause in her contract. :D

Well, I think this helps determine that she probably doesn't have a nudity clause in her contract. :D

Just watch brown bunny and you can rest assured she can be convinced to do ANYTHING in a film.

And it wasn't a prosthesis used in that film as someone said earlier...the real argument was whether it was actually Vincent Gallo or a "stand in" actor. Vincent claims it was him, but this other "adult" actor swears it was himself.

And it wasn't a prosthesis used in that film as someone said earlier...the real argument was whether it was actually Vincent Gallo or a "stand in" actor. Vincent claims it was him, but this other "adult" actor swears it was himself.

Appears it may have been Vincent. ( http://www.vincentgallo.com/talk/) BTW, those pictures show a really nice body on Chloe. :)

It was supposed to be Gallo, but it should be noted that they had dated previously, so it wasn't something she hadn't done many times off camera.

I believe he was only looking at her face :)


THANK YOU :)


but, her lanky body does NOT do it for me.

I'd prefer wife 1 or 3 over in "debt up to her ears" #2 any day.

skipped on sunday then read this thread and watched last night.
I am done. Show is lame.

skipped on sunday then read this thread and watched last night.
I am done. Show is lame.

It REALLY is lame, I keep thinking it's gonna start slow and strange just like Six Feet Under, and then find it's groove but that obviously is giving it to much credit.

TV Notebook
HBO's Big Love Renewed

By Anthony Crupi MediaWeek.com APRIL 20, 2006 -

HBO has picked up its original series Big Love for a second season, with filming set to begin in August.

A solid if unspectacular performer for the premium network, the polygamy drama has averaged nearly 4 million viewers in its Sunday 10:00 p.m. time slot since its March 12 premiere; repeats bring the weekly average up around the 7 million mark.

Although an exact date for Big Love’s return engagement has not been announced, HBO said season two will run sometime in 2007.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/cabletv/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002383523

So has there been any decent full frontal female nudity on this show yet? I saw a sex scene once, but it was lame and quite covered.

So has there been any decent full frontal female nudity on this show yet? I saw a sex scene once, but it was lame and quite covered.

None at all. But maybe the breakthrough will be between Margene and Ben. That would be interesting. And Douglas Smith who plays the supposed 15-year-old on the show is actually 21 in real life and could pose nude I would guess.

From Sunday's paper:

Paxton "burden's" public with bare butt

NEW YORK - Bill Paxton, who stars in the polygamy drama "Big Love," says baring his bottom on the HBO show is a form of "equal opprtunity with showing of skin."

"For too long, women in film an TV have been expected to show all, while men are always covered up," the 50 year old actor told People magazine in its May 1 issue.

Paxton plays Bill Richardson, a Salt Lake City merchant who has three wives and seven children, on "Big Love," which has been renewed for a second season.

"I'm not trying to burden the American public with my butt, but you've got to be equal opportunity with the showing of skin," he tells the magazine.

Jeanne Tripplehorn, Chloe Sevigny, Ginnifer Goodwin and Harry Dean Stanton also star in the series.

Bill's butt aside (I think we were spared last night) last night's episode was fantastic. The Richardson's family life is under assualt from so many different directions, it was almost too much to take.

But on the positive side, Nicky fixed the juicer! It turns out "It was just the power switch." I know I'm in the minority here, but I think she's great. She has so many things to cope with - her bizzarre ancestory, her shopping addiction, being second wife, the attack of the LDSers (she seemed genuinely terrified when the bike boys were writing down her address) - and does so remarkably well, IMO.

From Sunday's paper:

Paxton "burden's" public with bare butt

NEW YORK - Bill Paxton, who stars in the polygamy drama "Big Love," says baring his bottom on the HBO show is a form of "equal opprtunity with showing of skin."

"For too long, women in film an TV have been expected to show all, while men are always covered up," the 50 year old actor told People magazine in its May 1 issue.

Paxton plays Bill Richardson, a Salt Lake City merchant who has three wives and seven children, on "Big Love," which has been renewed for a second season.

"I'm not trying to burden the American public with my butt, but you've got to be equal opportunity with the showing of skin," he tells the magazine.

Jeanne Tripplehorn, Chloe Sevigny, Ginnifer Goodwin and Harry Dean Stanton also star in the series.

More power to him, but IMO, the equal opportunity should be measured within an individual series - not the industry as a whole. ;)

audiomagnate: You're not the only Nicki fan.

Jeanne Tripplehorn, Chloe Sevigny, Ginnifer Goodwin and Harry Dean Stanton also star in the series.

I find it very amusing that they throw Harry Dean Stanton in there, like someone would want to see his naked butt!

Paxton plays Bill Richardson,


Try again, It is HENDRICKSON, Bill Hendrickson. Like Hendrickson's Home Plus. SHEESH!

I dig the hell out of this show. It's great!

Try again, It is HENDRICKSON, Bill Hendrickson. Like Hendrickson's Home Plus. SHEESH!

Actually, it's Henrickson.

Sunday night on HBO is now hard to beat - both the Sopranos and Big Love are having great seasons!!

Actually, it's Henrickson.

Your right. In my utter disgust with the reporter who wrote the article (I bet hasn't even seen the show) I added the "d". My bad.

Polygamy in the news:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12666588/)

Does anybody know the plot purpose of Alby's almost homosexual encounter? I can't figure it out.

Polygamy in the news:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12666588/)

Does anybody know the plot purpose of Alby's almost homosexual encounter? I can't figure it out.

1: Its HBO, gay themes are added. There really does not need to be a reason.

2: See 1.

Polygamy in the news:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12666588/)

Does anybody know the plot purpose of Alby's almost homosexual encounter? I can't figure it out.

I see Bill finding out about it, letting Alby know he knows, and blackmailing Alby to help him get out from under Roman's thumb.


Jerry

well you could see some of Chloë Sevigny Sunday night.

I'm hoping for Ginnifer Goodwin myself. :)

Polygamy in the news:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12666588/)


I was about to post something on that, too. Now, how come MSNBC got a photo of the guy's brother, and not the one they're looking for? :confused:

Polygamy in the news:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12666588/)

Isn't Roman and his cult based on this guy?

well you could see some of Chloë Sevigny Sunday night.

I'm hoping for Ginnifer Goodwin myself. :)

finally something other than Bill Paxton's ass.


Can someone explain why the one girl was blackballed? I didn't follow that whole discussion.

Got to love Chloe's character acting like she stayed in a shelter, then busting out the Marriot room reciept she obviously charged. :)

Can someone explain why the one girl was blackballed? I didn't follow that whole discussion.

They found paraphernalia in her things that showed she was once a Moonie (Unification Church) and some other cult/religion.

finally something other than Bill Paxton's ass.


Got to love Chloe's character acting like she stayed in a shelter, then busting out the Marriot room reciept she obviously charged. :)

Actually, I thought that the receipt showed a cash payment.

well you could see some of Chloë Sevigny Sunday night.

I'm hoping for Ginnifer Goodwin myself. :)

It didn't matter to me who it was, so long as it was female flesh. We need a lot more of that to counterbalance all the Paxton ass shots we've had to watch the first few episodes.

I was about to post something on that, too. Now, how come MSNBC got a photo of the guy's brother, and not the one they're looking for? :confused:

I don't think it matters too much. They are poster-perfect for everything that is wrong with inbreeding. Kind of hard to not notice a mug like that.

I was about to post something on that, too. Now, how come MSNBC got a photo of the guy's brother, and not the one they're looking for? :confused:

They've changed the photo, now it's a "composite image" (whatever that means) of the actual guy; Warren Jeffs. He must be like that Mafia dude they caught in Italy after 30 years on the run - camera shy.

I guess all the Chloe-haters have been shut up. Nothing sexier than a woman that can handle a hand truck with such ease. ;)

I alternate between "she's hot and would be oh-so-delicious in bed" to "she's one messed-up girl ... reminds me of a psycho-chick girlfriend in my younger life" to "dang, she could fix some things up in my house ... maybe I need a number 2 wife" to "wow - she told off Barb's sis ... I love it!". Definitely one of the more interesting and complex characters. It's still not clear whether she truly has the family's best interest at heart, or has other motivations (or like real life, some mix of both).

Along those lines of psychological complexity, maybe it's just me, but in one of the earlier episodes (I think it was the Chloe son birthday episode), when Bill walked in on Chloe and Roman laughing in her room, it seems there was a sense of more than irritation (on Bill's part) that Roman was having such a good time with Chloe at Bill's "home turf" ... as in an intimation of something like incest ... which probably wouldn't be too farfetched based on other cults / compounds.

In any case, Big Love has really grown on me and my wife ... interesting characters, and it doesn't seem too artificial like many shows do, in regards to the family dynamics.

Cliff

Anyone know the name of the song playing during the end credits during the May 14 episode?

Anyone know the name of the song playing during the end credits during the May 14 episode?

Goldfrapp - Strict Machine

Isn't Roman and his cult based on this guy?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/16/fugitive.polygamist.ap/index.html

young men are sent away so as not to compete for brides;

older men are cast out for alleged disobedience

Jeffs has prophesied that the world was about to come to an end and that the second coming of Jesus Christ was at hand

Some say close associates, or "Warrenites," serve as his spies, reporting indiscretions by members of the community back to Jeffs.

He is known to travel with bodyguards in a convoy of sport utility vehicles with tinted windows,

[all of these have played into story lines for Big Love]

I was wondering where everyone on this thread went. I didn't think I'd last this long, but I'm still interested enough to see what's around the corner. Plus the fact that boobs have been shown, which may be a good omen.

I was wondering where everyone on this thread went. I didn't think I'd last this long, but I'm still interested enough to see what's around the corner. Plus the fact that boobs have been shown, which may be a good omen.


I'm really enjoying this series. One thing I don't quite understand. Since Bill is legally married to only one women he is not doing anything illegal but he did seem concerned when the father of one of his daughter's friends was a law enforcement officer. I can understand why he would want to keep things hidden
from a business perspective (if his life style was public it couldn't be good for business) and to save his family from ridicule, persecution, etc., but, from a legal perspective, has he done anything wrong?

Polygamy (specifically, bigamy) is illegal in Utah, it's even a Felony.
According to the state, he is only married to the first wife, so he skirts that law.

Adultery and fornication, basically any sexual act with someone you aren't married to, is also illegal in Utah, so by spending each night with a different woman, he is breaking the law, this is only a Misdemeanor though, unless the sex is without mutal consent, then it becomes a Felony.

I'm sure he is more worried about his business and his family being ridiculed though.


Jerry

He is married to all three - by the church. Only one is recorded by the state. If they could prove that, he'd still be in trouble. Most states also have common law marriage classifications that may apply.

I'm really enjoying this series. One thing I don't quite understand. Since Bill is legally married to only one women he is not doing anything illegal but he did seem concerned when the father of one of his daughter's friends was a law enforcement officer. I can understand why he would want to keep things hidden
from a business perspective (if his life style was public it couldn't be good for business) and to save his family from ridicule, persecution, etc., but, from a legal perspective, has he done anything wrong?

Keeping this kind of secret with his own appearance in his business commercials seems pretty unlikely. In the real world, his business competitors would have blown his cover long ago. Almost as hard as if he was a politician. ;)

Adultery and fornication, basically any sexual act with someone you aren't married to, is also illegal in Utah, so by spending each night with a different woman, he is breaking the law, this is only a Misdemeanor though, unless the sex is without mutal consent, then it becomes a Felony.

Jerry

Needless to say, there are thousands upon thousands of law-breakers here, myself included. The laws, politics & church keep me highly entertained.

Needless to say, there are thousands upon thousands of law-breakers here, myself included. The laws, politics & church keep me highly entertained.

Sounds like something else is keeping you entertained as well. :D

I thought Margene's identity crisis in the last show was one of the best acting/writing jobs I've seen in a long time. I also thought Nicky's speech - complete with two "shushes" - to Barb's sister was damn cool. I find myself rooting for the fundamentalists against the regular mormons. I just hope all the women don't up looking like Bill's new ally's wives. That one lady has quite possibly the scariest hairdo on the planet. I drive through Utah pretty frequently and I'm always impressed with how attractive the young women I see in restaurants/hotels/gas stations are.

I really despise Hatch.

Leahy singles out Hatch on plural marriage
Gets a grilling: '[Hatch] says he knows a number of polygamists in Utah, says they're fine people'
By Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune



WASHINGTON - There was no "Big Love" between Sen. Orrin Hatch and Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy on Thursday, as Hatch angrily denied Leahy's suggestion that Hatch defends polygamists.
Leahy raised Hatch's past comments on the issue of plural marriage during a debate on whether a constitutional amendment aimed at banning same-sex marriage should also prohibit polygamous unions.
The Democrat wondered aloud about the amendment's impact on polygamy.
"[Hatch] says he knows a number of those polygamists in Utah, says they're fine people," Leahy said.
Hatch took exception, saying he hadn't made such statements. But Leahy countered that Hatch has been quoted saying as much in past news reports.
"You don't think they're fine people?" Leahy asked.
"I've met some who are very sincere, but I don't justify it," Hatch said.
"Well, if you know they're out there committing a felony and you haven't reported it, then you . . . ," Leahy began.
"Don't accuse me of wanting polygamy," Hatch snapped.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints publicly disavowed polygamy in 1890 and it was outlawed in Utah at the insistence of the federal government as a condition of statehood.
Under Utah law, plural marriage is a third-degree felony. But breakaway groups continue to practice plural marriage. There are believed to be tens of thousands of polygamists throughout the West.
Warren Jeffs, the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a polygamous group that split from the Mormon church and set up an enclave on the Utah-Arizona border, was recently added to the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list, prompting renewed national interest in the practice.
Vicky Prunty, executive director of Tapestry Against Polygamy, a support group for women seeking to escape the lifestyle, said Hatch has done nothing to help stop the practice and has declined to meet with her group.
"This has been going on under his nose for decades and he has never taken a strong stand against polygamy when it's been a felony all along," Prunty said. "I don't know what it's going to take for Senator Hatch and others to start caring for the voiceless citizens of Utah, namely children, whose human and civil rights are being violated."
At a meeting in southern Utah in 2003, Hatch was pressed to take a stand against polygamy, but balked at a hard-line stand.
"I'm not here to justify polygamy," he said at the time. "All I can say is, I know people in Hildale who are polygamists who are very fine people. You come and show me evidence of children being abused there and I'll get involved. Bring the evidence to me."
Asked to elaborate on his view on polygamy Thursday, Hatch said in a statement: "Polygamy is against the law. It's that simple."
"Some of the people who live in polygamous communities are very sincere and are striving to live their religious beliefs. But that doesn't justify what they do. Polygamy is still against the law," he said.
"Nobody, whether they are in a monogamous or polygamous relationship, should
be raping or abusing a child," Hatch said.
The senator said he has also helped secure $750,000 for shelters, legal services, education, and training for women and children who leave polygamist sects.
Like most people with Mormon lineage, Hatch has polygamist ancestry.
His great-great grandfather, Hezekiah Hatch, had four wives, as did the senator's great-grandfather, Jeremiah Hatch, who fathered 30 children and founded the town of Vernal at the direction of Brigham Young.
---
MediaNews reporter Evan Lehman contributed to this report.

The only criteria that Hatch requires to be considered a "fine person" is to reliably vote Republican, which all sects and splinters of Mormons reliably do. Donating to the GOP will make you a "mighty fine person", and donating to his campaign will get you labeled a "great person". ;) Nothing else much matters to him, I suspect.

So Hatch's great grandpappy was a polygamist?
Well, I guess I can forgive him for that, but not for founding Vernal.

"He (Warren Jeffs) is known to travel with bodyguards in a convoy of sport utility vehicles with tinted windows...."

Tinted windows are illegal in Utah, as well.

"He (Warren Jeffs) is known to travel with bodyguards in a convoy of sport utility vehicles with tinted windows...."

Tinted windows are illegal in Utah, as well.

Is there no limit to the depths of deparavity to which this man will sink? Tinted windows indeed.

"He (Warren Jeffs) is known to travel with bodyguards in a convoy of sport utility vehicles with tinted windows...."

Tinted windows are illegal in Utah, as well.

Joke? Subtle humor? I didn't read many of the posts, so maybe I'm missing it.

Utah law allows rear windows at any tint and front windows at 43%. Tinted windows are not illegal in Utah.

That's kinda what I meant. If they are tinted dark enough to hide the passengers identity/actions, they are illegal. So, they should be stopping WSJ.

I could never figure out why a guy who owns two "Home Depot" like stores had a dirt back yard. Maybe it was a metaphor for the dirty little secret life they live behind that fence, but pools and dirt yards just don't mix. I know Bill's got his hands full, but I thought Nicky would have taken care of it. Maybe that rustic grassless look reminds her of her home back at the compound. In comes the freshly re-energized, "born again" Margene to grab the bull (wheel barrel?) by the horns, looking all hot and sweaty as she just gets it done. Wow!

I could never figure out why a guy who owns two "Home Depot" like stores had a dirt back yard. Maybe it was a metaphor for the dirty little secret life they live behind that fence, but pools and dirt yards just don't mix. I know Bill's got his hands full, but I thought Nicky would have taken care of it. Maybe that rustic grassless look reminds her of her home back at the compound. In comes the freshly re-energized, "born again" Margene to grab the bull (wheel barrel?) by the horns, looking all hot and sweaty as she just gets it done. Wow!
She totally had me with the kneepads :D , friggin HAWT!

Great season finale. This show keeps getting better and better. Unfortunately now we have to wait until next year for the next season.

Great season finale. This show keeps getting better and better. Unfortunately now we have to wait until next year for the next season.

When is the next season? Great finale but where does the show go from here?
Other than Roman, most of the tension this season (other than just the tension of multiple wives and their relationships) has been from the threat of discovery.
Apparently, that threat is gone along with, I would assume, the business.
Can't wait to see the direction this series takes next season.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how the family could believe that anything good could have come out of Barb accepting the nomination for Mother of the year. Even amongst themselves I would have thought that they would have rejected the idea that one mother would be better than another given their religious/family beliefs and structure.

I suppose I can accept that it was plotted that way to provide the audience with some drama about "outing" the family, but really, are practicing polygamists that stupid, or ignorant, that they would even consider such a thing, given the danger?

It just seemed to be a poorly written plot device to transition the family to a whole new dynamic in the show. I can't help but think a more logical, believable, way to accomplish the outing would have made for better drama. This method stinks of shock value and weak writing for effect.

I will watch next year, I still like the show, but if this sort writing continues I don't know if I'll stick around for the long haul.

I suppose I can accept that it was plotted that way to provide the audience with some drama about "outing" the family, but really, are practicing polygamists that stupid, or ignorant, that they would even consider such a thing, given the danger?

It just seemed to be a poorly written plot device to transition the family to a whole new dynamic in the show. I can't help but think a more logical, believable, way to accomplish the outing would have made for better drama. This method stinks of shock value and weak writing for effect.

The second season starts shooting in August. No word yet of when it will debut but here's hoping it follows the final eight episodes of 'The Sopranos' in early 2007.

As for the outing in the finale (written by the show's creators BTW), 'Big Love' is in the same place where 'The Sopranos' was at the end of its rookie season back in 1999 (!). Livia and Junior conspiring to kill Tony, along with Tony's activities scaring Dr. Melfi away from her practice, should have meant the deaths of these characters in Season 2. But the show became such an unexpected hit the writers had to somehow bring Melfi, Junior and Livia back on the fold. 'Big Love' just outed the polygamy of its characters to the governor of Utah, so it's not like there won't be any big repercussions for all the characters. The only thing missing that would have made this Season Finale one for the ages would have been a scene or two with the little girl that submitted Barbara as Mother of the Year. If I were her I'd be devastated that I exposed my family's secret to the world, and this finale failed to show how devastating that feeling would be to a little girl. Other than that this finale was as dark and depressing (not to mention gloomy for the future) but also enjoyable as 'The Sopranos' finale that preceded it. And next week 'Deadwood' is back! When you want dark, darker and darkest, think HBO! :o

I thought it was pretty good, not really great; but a much better season finale than the Sopranos. It will be interesting to see how they treat this next year. Anyone know how the ratings of been, vs. expectaions? I haven't heard a whole lot of "buzz" about this show, other than reading of religious objections, etc.

There's also the possibility that the governor's office does nothing or denies the polygamy issue in Barb's "withdrawl" from the competition. After all it wouldn't look good on the first lady's staff to have missed such a big glaring fact in their candidates background.

Who knows whats going to happen. I guess Im going to have to keep screaming at Comcrap with threats of cancelation to keep my free HBO for when it comes back. I just wish HBO did more than just 12 episode seasons.

Anyone know how the ratings of been, vs. expectaions? I haven't heard a whole lot of "buzz" about this show, other than reading of religious objections, etc.

Each episode of 'Big Love' has averaged between 3.8 and 4.2 million viewers (about half of 'Sopranos' low-for-the-season 8 million viewers), which for HBO standards is a Godsend. On the weeks that they've been on 'Sopranos' and 'Big Love' have ranked in the Top 20 Nielsen list for shows in all of cable (including non-pay channels). Go to http://www.tv.com/big-love/show/25834/forums.html?tag=tabs;forum and look back at all my previous weeks' ratings compilations to see the actual numbers. They're pretty astounding actually when one considers HBO is only in a fraction of homes that have cable, yet the Sunday night one-two punch of 'Sopranos' and 'Big Love' has delivered. The question is, can 'Big Love' stand on its own without 'The Sopranos' lead-in and still sustain itself? In 2004, when 'Deadwood' debuted after 'The Sopranos,' the HBO western averaged 5 million viewers to 'Sopranos' 10 million. The following year, without 'Sopranos' as a lead-in, 'Deadwood dropped to 2.8 million viewers (ouch). HBO has been looking for the next-big-thing to replace 'Sopranos' with, but other than 'Sex & The City' (totally different demographic/type of show) it has come up empty ratingwise (Emmy and critical acclaim are another story). Can 'Big Love' last on its own? Stay tuned!

The only thing missing that would have made this Season Finale one for the ages would have been a scene or two with the little girl that submitted Barbara as Mother of the Year. If I were her I'd be devastated that I exposed my family's secret to the world, and this finale failed to show how devastating that feeling would be to a little girl.
I agree, that would have made for some good TV.

My complaint is the vehicle used for the outing, it's unfathomable to me that Barb and her family would even consider allowing her to go past the home visit when she was first approached about the award. I can't see how the response could have been anything other than, "that's very nice, but no thanks", in the eps leading up to this one I kept thinking that there's no way she is going to go through with it, that she'd bail out at the last minute, it just seemed very unrealistic to me.

It's called "denial." The affair took both Bill and her back to the good ol' "normal" monogamous days before the other two wives were around, and I think they were both waxing nostalgic. The fact that Bill even considered accepting the invitation into the big wig club shows how delusional these two are (were) about being able to pull off the charade of "normalcy."

It's called "denial." The affair took both Bill and her back to the good ol' "normal" monogamous days before the other two wives were around, and I think they were both waxing nostalgic. The fact that Bill even considered accepting the invitation into the big wig club shows how delusional these two are (were) about being able to pull off the charade of "normalcy."


There was also a lot of denial by Bill regarding his battle with Roman - didn't he realize that the harder he pushed, the more likely Roman was to expose him to the world (which he did by blowing the whistle to the first lady)?

I thought when Nikki said "well mostly" to Barb when Barb said "I guess I got what I deserved", that it was one of the cruelest moments Ive witnessed. :eek: I think I replayed that 3 times. Margene and Nikki were supposed to be in there to comfort her not destroy her. Bill still holds the big cards though to sink Roman. The problem is he will be exposed as well if he does. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

There was also a lot of denial by Bill regarding his battle with Roman - didn't he realize that the harder he pushed, the more likely Roman was to expose him to the world (which he did by blowing the whistle to the first lady)?

I wondered since episode 2 or 3 why Roman wouldn't just threaten Bill with this up front. Bill wanted Roman out of his business...seems Roman would say "well if I have no financial ties to homeplus, then I'll just 'out' you and kill your business". Bill wouldn't be able to do anything.

So yea, that part of the storyline (which is really the main focus of the show) always played false to me.

The last thing Roman wants is publicity. Outing Bill is a move of total desperation.

The last thing Roman wants is publicity. Outing Bill is a move of total desperation.
Yes it was. Was Roman aware of Alby's condition before he made the phone call? I already deleted so I can't go back to see but I thought Roman was unaware of what happened to Alby when he made the call. That would seem to be the only reason strong enough to do what he did, realizing that by doing so he would put himself in jeopardy.

I thought when Nikki said "well mostly" to Barb when Barb said "I guess I got what I deserved", that it was one of the cruelest moments Ive witnessed. :eek: I think I replayed that 3 times. Margene and Nikki were supposed to be in there to comfort her not destroy her. Bill still holds the big cards though to sink Roman. The problem is he will be exposed as well if he does. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


If you are referring to the same scene exchange last night, that is NOT what Nikki said. Go back and turn your closed captioning on (That is what I did). It is difficult to hear Nikki's response. When Barb says to Nikki in the bedroom, "I guess I got what I deserved", Nikki says, "Oh, Boss Lady."

Actually, it is interesting to note in the beginning of that scene that Margene is in control of herself, comes in and her first thought is for Barb and then mouths to Bill to take care of hysterical Nikki. Margene is usually the one falling a part all of the time and Nikki is in control. Nice turn of events. Margene has matured while Nikki is still self absorbed.

Now about that plot line........

Yes it was. Was Roman aware of Alby's condition before he made the phone call? I already deleted so I can't go back to see but I thought Roman was unaware of what happened to Alby when he made the call. That would seem to be the only reason strong enough to do what he did, realizing that by doing so he would put himself in jeopardy.

The hospital scene was the second to last and the last being Bill sitting in the backyard contemplating.

If you are referring to the same scene exchange last night, that is NOT what Nikki said. Go back and turn your closed captioning on (That is what I did). It is difficult to hear Nikki's response. When Barb says to Nikki in the bedroom, "I guess I got what I deserved", Nikki says, "Oh, Boss Lady."



When I read vurbano's original post I was thinking "God, how did I miss that! I don't remember Nikkie being mean at that point". I watched it originally with closed captioning on, so foxeng is correct...she says "Oh, boss lady" not "well mostly".

The last thing Roman wants is publicity. Outing Bill is a move of total desperation.

I don't agree with this at all. Roman has never hid who he is (though his business dealings are obviously hidden). Just look at the birthday party...Bill is worried the neighbors will find out, while Roman rides into town with all his wives in tow, all dressed in their attire, etc.

"Publicity" wise, he doesn't have any concern...the government and public already knows who he is and that he's the prophet (They can't do anything about it since he's "officially" only married to 1 person.) so there's nothing to fear from him about publicity. (If the DA has been trying to stick cases on him for years as is implied, what would he care if Bill Hendrickson came out with that information).

Bill on the other hand has his whole business success counting on that secrecy.

When I read vurbano's original post I was thinking "God, how did I miss that! I don't remember Nikkie being mean at that point". I watched it originally with closed captioning on, so foxeng is correct...she says "Oh, boss lady" not "well mostly".

That's correct. We didn't need CC to hear it, however; it was pretty clear and you could see her lips mouth the words as well.

That's correct. We didn't need CC to hear it, however; it was pretty clear and you could see her lips mouth the words as well.

I agree, it was clear as day.

I don't agree with this at all. Roman has never hid who he is (though his business dealings are obviously hidden). Just look at the birthday party...Bill is worried the neighbors will find out, while Roman rides into town with all his wives in tow, all dressed in their attire, etc.

"Publicity" wise, he doesn't have any concern...the government and public already knows who he is and that he's the prophet (They can't do anything about it since he's "officially" only married to 1 person.) so there's nothing to fear from him about publicity. (If the DA has been trying to stick cases on him for years as is implied, what would he care if Bill Hendrickson came out with that information).

Bill on the other hand has his whole business success counting on that secrecy.

He has sex with underage girls, arranges sex with underage girls for lots of other men, cheats on his taxes... shall I go on? The charachter he's based on just made it to the FBI's ten most wanted list. (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/jeff_ws.htm) Additionally, he makes a ton of money of Bill's businesses. He wouldn't have done what he did unless he felt like a cornered animal, which he is, in essence. He senses, rightly, that he's about to lose his empire, so WTF, why not go down fighting and try to make it a mutual kill. I see Bill giving up the hardware stores and taking control of the UEB. It's his destiny, if you listen to what the old guy he got his shares from...and his mom.

I dig the show, my wife loves it.
Question for me is, now where does the story go now that the family has been outted?
What about the secretary lady from Bill's office? What does she do?
When are we going to see more of Margine?
Also, since Bill needs some help with his situation, i was thinking the eldest son would speak up and say he would take Margine!
Curious about next season, but i can stand the wait....

If you are referring to the same scene exchange last night, that is NOT what Nikki said. Go back and turn your closed captioning on (That is what I did). It is difficult to hear Nikki's response. When Barb says to Nikki in the bedroom, "I guess I got what I deserved", Nikki says, "Oh, Boss Lady."



Now about that plot line........
I had to play it 3 times to catch what she said.....and I guess my memory was right about the sequence of events, thanks for that confirmation.

He has sex with underage girls, arranges sex with underage girls for lots of other men, cheats on his taxes... shall I go on? The charachter he's based on just made it to the FBI's ten most wanted list. (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/jeff_ws.htm) Additionally, he makes a ton of money of Bill's businesses. He wouldn't have done what he did unless he felt like a cornered animal, which he is, in essence. He senses, rightly, that he's about to lose his empire, so WTF, why not go down fighting and try to make it a mutual kill. I see Bill giving up the hardware stores and taking control of the UEB. It's his destiny, if you listen to what the old guy he got his shares from...and his mom.
I agree, the last thing Roman wants is publicity, and that fact is supported by the anonymous phone call about Barb. He could have just as easily walked into the presentation and announced it publicly if he didn't care about publicity.

I agree, the last thing Roman wants is publicity, and that fact is supported by the anonymous phone call about Barb. He could have just as easily walked into the presentation and announced it publicly if he didn't care about publicity.


I think that Roman was letting his emotions get in the way when he decided to out Bill. The whole reason Roman got into a tussle with Bill is b/c he wanted more profit from the stores. Now he outs that guy. How does Roman think that's going to affect the bottom line?

It seems that this whole season has been made up of Bill being in denial. If you go back and look at most of the episodes, you see the denial trend. I liked the arch of the episode and it was definitely better than the season finale for the Sopranos. However, I would have like to see more of Roman's younger wife and her plotting to escape the 'farm'.

He has sex with underage girls, arranges sex with underage girls for lots of other men, cheats on his taxes... shall I go on?

My point is that all of that stuff is already well known by everyone. Everybody in Utah would know that Roman is the head of this polygamist group (just like everyone was aware about the guy you linked to that is now on the FBIs most wanted list). The FBI already know he's arranging these marriages. The DA already is aware of all the illegal activites and have been trying to pin all the mentioned things on him. He is already in the public eye about all of these things. That would be like John Gotti worrying about publicity because people would find out he's in the mafia. It's no big secret.

So the fact that he would be "found out" that he's a polygamist by a bunch of people who already know he's a polygamist, would have no affect on him. He's more interested in what they can prove.

Bill on the other hand, would lose a lot of money just from the perception that he was into this.


Additionally, he makes a ton of money of Bill's businesses


Well the idea was that Bill was cutting him off, so he would no longer be making a ton of money off of Bill's business...so he would have no reason to shield that information any longer.

The deal on the new store was that Roman got 15% of the profits, but wasn't listed anywhere, and wasn't to be included on anymore stores, so he still would be getting quite a bit in revenue from Bill, just not officially, nor a growing amount from any further expansion. I think since Roman figured Bill was responsible for Alby's missing, that blood was stronger than money, and no amount of money will bring Alby back, so he felt outing Bill was an eye for an eye.

And he still gets 15% off the first store. John Gotti - a don seeking the limelight - was the exception, not the rule, and it didn't work out too well for him.

I just don't get it. A man can hace 5 female roomates and sleep with all of them and never go to jail or be harassed. The same man can marry one of those roomates and keep the rest "in house" and never be bothered. What is the big deal? If the owner of Lowes had 3 wives I would still shop there. If he had 3 child wives that is a great bit different.

I just don't get it. A man can hace 5 female roomates and sleep with all of them and never go to jail or be harassed. The same man can marry one of those roomates and keep the rest "in house" and never be bothered. What is the big deal? If the owner of Lowes had 3 wives I would still shop there. If he had 3 child wives that is a great bit different.

You have to understand the power of the LDS in Utah. It's pervasive as all ...heck. They've been trying to live down this polygamy thing for 100 years. It would reflect poorly on them to a have a polygamst with Mormon roots (I know he's not LDS!) in such a powerful and visible position.

You have to understand the power of the LDS in Utah. It's pervasive as all ...heck. They've been trying to live down this polygamy thing for 100 years. It would reflect poorly on them to a have a polygamst with Mormon roots (I know he's not LDS!) in such a powerful and visible position.
I get the whole church power thing but can't Bill move to say Texas or somewhere and start a company? The multiple wives thing is just overblown except when it comes to kids or child wives which Bill is not one of.

People are still watching this??? I watched the first few episodes, but I guess it's not interesting to me, since all I have to do to see polygamists is drive down the street, or go to a movie, or to the grocery store, or...well, you get the point. :D

Kudos to Big Love for their research, since they hit on some facts and altered them just enough to not get sued, but I found the show a bit boring and slow. The "Big Joy" I get from it is that it pisses off so many people I know, yet they've never watched an episode. :) :confused:

People are still watching this??? I watched the first few episodes, but I guess it's not interesting to me, since all I have to do to see polygamists is drive down the street, or go to a movie, or to the grocery store, or...well, you get the point. :D

Kudos to Big Love for their research, since they hit on some facts and altered them just enough to not get sued, but I found the show a bit boring and slow. The "Big Joy" I get from it is that it pisses off so many people I know, yet they've never watched an episode. :) :confused:

So it sounds like you're right in the middle of it, but you didn't follow the series?

My complaint is the vehicle used for the outing, it's unfathomable to me that Barb and her family would even consider allowing her to go past the home visit when she was first approached about the award. I can't see how the response could have been anything other than, "that's very nice, but no thanks", in the eps leading up to this one I kept thinking that there's no way she is going to go through with it, that she'd bail out at the last minute, it just seemed very unrealistic to me.
I agree. As if Barb is going to get the award...go home, and that be the end of it? No follow-up by the newspaper...no television interviews...no calls from women in the community about get-togethers, joining clubs, speaking engagements, etc., etc.? Yet everyone was so adamant that Margene end her relationship with the neighbor across the street – go figure...


The season finale was very good, especially the question marks at the end. I thought Bill’s brother and his wife turned in some poor acting performances – they just didn’t work for me in that episode.

I’m still not sure why I continue to watch this show. :confused:

I’m still not sure why I continue to watch this show. :confused:

Because, at least for this year, it was far more entertaining and fun to watch than the show that preceded it at 9PM (and got most of the headlines/viewers)? :D

Because, at least for this year, it was far more entertaining and fun to watch than the show that preceded it at 9PM (and got most of the headlines/viewers)? :D

exactly. I was just about to respond to the person who said "people are still watching this?" about how it was just as entertaining as the Sopranos this season. In fact, season taken in whole, it was probably more entertaining since Sopranos had quite a few slow episodes.

I enjoy both, and don't want to knock the Sopranos, but it was definitely a weak season and I can say I was looking forward to Big Love each week every bit as much as I was Sopranos.

Yet everyone was so adamant that Margene end her relationship with the neighbor across the street – go figure...

Good point. I always found that wierd that they were telling her she couldn't even have a friend over to her house.

How come nobody's commenting on my prediction that Bill loses (or gives up) the stores and takes over the UEB? I don't see any other way it could go. The Feds grab Roman, or he goes into hiding for thirty years like the real life Roman, and Bill takes over. He's the perfect guy for the job: he's legally clean, he has the bloodlines to be "profit", and most of all, he has the business acumen and experience to make everybody rich(er). It's a no brainer. Holloway spelled it out a few episodes ago with the scrap book. Bill is destined to lead the tribe! You heard it here first.

How come nobody's commenting on my prediction that Bill loses (or gives up) the stores and takes over the UEB?

Um....because that would effectively kill the show? Look - it's a drama; there has to be conflict. Roman's evil kingdom of iron-fisted rule and child abuse provides the necessary villain and dramatic conflict. He has to continue in this role to provide the foil to Bill, an "ordinary" guy with an un-ordinary household who's just trying to provide for his large and growing family, stay under the radar, and do the right thing. The scenario you propose will not come to pass or the show's over.

And to those perplexed by Barb accepting Mother of the Year.... it's probably a matter of her trying to have it both ways - a "normal" family presented to the public and the "abnormal" family at home. She and Bill both thought she could pull it off. And remember, Barb was not born into polygamy; she didn't even marry into it. She grew to accept it because she nearly died and she dearly loves her husband. Deep down, she might still think of herself in a monogamous relationship, and who doesn't like to be flattered and honored by lots of people? It's infectious.

Drama, conflict, plot lines? What's more interesting, owning a couple of hardware stores or bringing truth, freedom and the American way to the evil polygamous empire? I'm ready to take bets on this.

I agree. As if Barb is going to get the award...go home, and that be the end of it? No follow-up by the newspaper...no television interviews...no calls from women in the community about get-togethers, joining clubs, speaking engagements, etc., etc.? Yet everyone was so adamant that Margene end her relationship with the neighbor across the street – go figure...




My take on this point is that Barb, in getting caught up in her ego needs, and putting those needs ahead of the interests of the 'family' ( and deluding herself about the possible consequences), essentially breaks a fundamental rule that she herself is responsible for enforcing. And now the turn of events has forced her back to reality, along with displaying to her the damage her ego needs have wrought. I know everything I've written is self-evident, but it was interesting to watch that character execute the plan, knowing as a viewer that the most likely outcome would be 'not good'. How many of us have gone against 'the rules' and suffered similar (bad) outcomes? It was good tv because all of us can commiserate on some level, because of all of us have gone against the grain at some time, only to suffer negative outcomes as a result.

I thought Bill’s brother and his wife turned in some poor acting performances – they just didn’t work for me in that episode.


I thought the wife was pretty good. IIRC, in an earlier episode is was indicated that she was a bit of a nutter so when she saw Alby making unsubtle advances around her baby in a threatening manner, and given the tense situation between the two familys, I thought her poisoning of him and her attitude about it was right on the mark for her character. Obviously sociopathic behavior but also very primal in a survival sort of way.

What's Alby used to drinking if he just guzzles down a 50% antifreeze cocktail? I thought it might have been leftover arsenic tea in the antifreeze jug.

I agree with those that are perplexed about where this show can go from here.

I guess they wanted us to grow to like the family the first season so that we then feel sorry for them when they're outed and subsequently ridiculed and Bill's business is blackballed.

I suppose we're to take a negative view of those that decide to not shop at Homeplus b/c they have a problem with Bill's lifestyle.

I'm not buying it.

This show, which got better as it went along, has a dubious future.

As for him taking over the compound, maybe, but I think the show needs the good polygamist/bad polygamist tension.

What's Alby used to drinking if he just guzzles down a 50% antifreeze cocktail? I thought it might have been leftover arsenic tea in the antifreeze jug.
It was probably a fruit punch drink or something of that nature, ethylene glycol has a sweet taste to it so he would't have noticed anything wrong.

I think the assumption that many of you have that they have been "outed" is incorrect. Yes, the governor's wife and staff know but they are the only ones. They arent going to broadcast the info for fear of looking foolish themselves.
I don't think the storyline will change much as a result of this supposed "outing".

I think the assumption that many of you have that they have been "outed" is incorrect. Yes, the governor's wife and staff know but they are the only ones. They arent going to broadcast the info for fear of looking foolish themselves.
I don't think the storyline will change much as a result of this supposed "outing".
I got the impression that when Bill confronted the guy walking down the aisle, that other people seated near them heard the guy refer to Bill's "other wives".

I got the impression that when Bill confronted the guy walking down the aisle, that other people seated near them heard the guy refer to Bill's "other wives".

Yeah that comment would have "outed" them for sure. (With all the guests and press there).

I love the show but this was an absurd storyline with an absurd conclusion. Barb stopped Margine (sp) from having a friend accross the street knowing it would only lead to trouble, and yet she agreed (in the week before the last ep.) to make "public appearances" for gods sake.

Also the first lady of Utah would have put Barb back on the podium and read another name. Its the "clean" solution and thats what a politician (or wife) would do. And her aid sure as heck would not have outed Bill in the middle of all the press... it would indeed be very embarrassing for Barb to have made it to the finals as a polygamist

Drama, conflict, plot lines? What's more interesting, owning a couple of hardware stores or bringing truth, freedom and the American way to the evil polygamous empire? I'm ready to take bets on this.

I had given that some thought. As an "end of show" scenario. I was caught off guard by them being outed so early.

I mean Bill is a believer while also being intelligent. I am thinking a man like that would want to "rescue" all of the believers at the compound who obviously lack the intelligence or will to save themselves.

I got the impression that when Bill confronted the guy walking down the aisle, that other people seated near them heard the guy refer to Bill's "other wives".

I didnt think it was said loud enough for the others to hear it.
Also, I believe Bill will assume that the lady that works for him was the one that told the govenors staff about the polygamy.

I didnt think it was said loud enough for the others to hear it.
Also, I believe Bill will assume that the lady that works for him was the one that told the govenors staff about the polygamy.

it was said loud enough. After the man says it to Bill the crowd starts murmering and you hear one of them say "Did he say other wives?". It also showed on my close captioning.

So it was definitely implied that the crowd overheard this conversation.

What's Alby used to drinking if he just guzzles down a 50% antifreeze cocktail? I thought it might have been leftover arsenic tea in the antifreeze jug.

I'd still like to know why the wife was keeping a bottle of antifreeze next to her Fridge

I'd still like to know why the wife was keeping a bottle of antifreeze next to her Fridge
IIRC, isn’t she the one that poisoned her husbands dad (Bruce Dern)? As keenan pointed out, she isn’t all there.

IIRC, isn’t she the one that poisoned her husbands dad (Bruce Dern)? As keenan pointed out, she isn’t all there.

Yes, and the producers had a couple of misdirects there.... first with Bill's mom, who it seemed had both a motive and enough loopiness to try it, then one scene when his dad was in the hospital and it appeared that Roman was a bit too insistent he take a drink from a cup Roman offered (but then, he quickly recovered, so I figured at that point the culprit wasn't really Roman). Good twist!

Do we know for sure though that Wanda poisoned Frank? Just because Lois says it wasn't her doesn't mean it was Wanda. My original take was that Lois was poisoning Frank unwittingly with the "special" tea from Roman's wives, the same tea he brought to the hospital. Wanda has not admitted to poisoning Frank has she?

Got to love this show, brings new meaning to term, dysfunctional family... :p

Do we know for sure though that Wanda poisoned Frank? Just because Lois says it wasn't her doesn't mean it was Wanda. My original take was that Lois was poisoning Frank unwittingly with the "special" tea from Roman's wives, the same tea he brought to the hospital. Wanda has not admitted to poisoning Frank has she?

Got to love this show, brings new meaning to term, dysfunctional family... :p

Didn't Bill ask his brother if she poisoned his dad and he said yes (or at least looked at her like the answer was "yes".

I don't remember exactly, but I thought they specifically called it out that Wanda was the one that poisoned his dad. (and that's when they cut to his mom saying "see, I told you it wasn't me...but you didn't believe me".

Didn't Bill ask his brother if she poisoned his dad and he said yes (or at least looked at her like the answer was "yes".

I don't remember exactly, but I thought they specifically called it out that Wanda was the one that poisoned his dad. (and that's when they cut to his mom saying "see, I told you it wasn't me...but you didn't believe me".

I've already flushed it from the DVR, but I believe that's the case. Wanda poisoned Alby and Frank, (and who knows how many others). :eek:

I don't think Wanda's smart enough to get a hold of the arsenic and dose it correctly, ie, enough to slowly sicken, but not enough to kill right away. Also, what's her motive? If Roman isn't behind the poisoning, that sceen in the hospital with the tea was a real red herring.

Could be, I already deleted it as well. So what was Wanda's motive? Was it as simple as Frank is a pig, or did he do something personally to her? I guess it might be because Frank treats Joey like sh!t, constantly harping about his football days. Okay, makes sense, fits with her reaction to Alby and the baby, protecting her own.

I don't think Wanda's smart enough to get a hold of the arsenic and dose it correctly, ie, enough to slowly sicken, but not enough to kill right away. Also, what's her motive? If Roman isn't behind the poisoning, that scene in the hospital with the tea was a real red herring.

I don't think Wanda's smart enough to get a hold of the arsenic and dose it correctly, ie, enough to slowly sicken, but not enough to kill right away. Also, what's her motive? If Roman isn't behind the poisoning, that sceen in the hospital with the tea was a real red herring.
Good points. Arsenic does/can take a long time to do the damage, whereas anti-freeze is far more lethal in a much shorter time period, same day in fact.

Plus, why use one method and then switch to another?...I'm going to have to watch that scene again when it re-airs.

I've already flushed it from the DVR, but I believe that's the case. Wanda poisoned Alby and Frank, (and who knows how many others). :eek:
Wanda absolutely poisoned Frank. Joey told Bill that the only reason they called Bill about Frank was because Wanda was feeling guilty that Bill wouldn't have a chance to say goodbye to his dad. On top of that, the first thing out of Joey's mouth was "Not again". Now that could mean this is 2nd time or this is the latest in a series of poisonings.

Good points. Arsenic does/can take a long time to do the damage, whereas anti-freeze is far more lethal in a much shorter time period, same day in fact.

Plus, why use one method and then switch to another?...I'm going to have to watch that scene again when it re-airs.
She employed a different method because Alby was a threat then and there whereas Frank wasn't so much a threat but an annoyance. Who says this is the 1st time she'd used anti-freeze, maybe the arsenic was the switch and she went back to her tried and true method.

I am surprised no one brought up that Nikki looked quite nice as a normally dressed person... especially after all the complaining of her looks

Wanda absolutely poisoned Frank. Joey told Bill that the only reason they called Bill about Frank was because Wanda was feeling guilty that Bill wouldn't have a chance to say goodbye to his dad. On top of that, the first thing out of Joey's mouth was "Not again". Now that could mean this is 2nd time or this is the latest in a series of poisonings.
Ah, from an earlier episode, now it all fits and makes sense. When I picked up on Wanda being a nutter I had forgotten the reason why. Thanks.

Ah, from an earlier episode, now it all fits and makes sense. When I picked up on Wanda being a nutter I had forgotten the reason why. Thanks.
Actually it was in the finale, I'll have to go back and check but I think it was when the cop was at Joey and Wanda's and Joey was outside on the phone Bill.

OK, I'm convinced. How could I have watched every episode and missed that Wanda was a serial killer? Wow!

OK, I'm convinced. How could I have watched every episode and missed that Wanda was a serial killer? Wow!

Don't feel bad. Everybody else missed it too, which is what the producers wanted. ;)

Actually it was in the finale, I'll have to go back and check but I think it was when the cop was at Joey and Wanda's and Joey was outside on the phone Bill.
Crap, so I will have to watch it again. :p

So you're saying that the Wanda wanting Bill to see his dad sequence was in the same episode? That would have had to have happened in an earlier episode wouldn't it?

Good point. I always found that wierd that they were telling her she couldn't even have a friend over to her house.

Well, they were telling Margene this b/c as you may have noticed, she cannot keep her mouth shut. She has a tendency to let her emotions get in the way. The reason she kept being friends with the lady across the street was b/c the other two wives didn't want her to. Just like a little kid whom parents tell him or her to not touch the flame, but the kid wants to do it even more now.

OK, I'm convinced. How could I have watched every episode and missed that Wanda was a serial killer? Wow!
From the very first episode I "knew" there was something off about her and Alby's poisoning confirmed it, but I missed that she also poisoned Frank. I'm trying to remember what it was earlier that made me think Wanda was a bit nuts but I don't recall what it was.

Well, they were telling Margene this b/c as you may have noticed, she cannot keep her mouth shut. She has a tendency to let her emotions get in the way. The reason she kept being friends with the lady across the street was b/c the other two wives didn't want her to. Just like a little kid whom parents tell him or her to not touch the flame, but the kid wants to do it even more now.


That's not the only reason. She felt shut out by the other two wives; she had no idea about "the affair", for example, and was going nuts locked up in that house all day long with her little out of control ankle biters. Along comes a "friend" that seems genuinely interested in her, and she went for it, who wouldn't? The fact that the "friend" was just doing what all good LDSers do, recruiting, is beside the point.

Crap, so I will have to watch it again. :p

So you're saying that the Wanda wanting Bill to see his dad sequence was in the same episode? That would have had to have happened in an earlier episode wouldn't it?
No it came out that the reason Bill was notified (in the 1st episode) that Frank was "sick" was because Wanda felt guilty Bill wasn't going to get a chance to say good-bye to his dad.

From the episdoe guide on HBO's website:
Watching Alby get a little too close to her newborn, Wanda fakes the call and tells him to have a seat - Joey will be home shortly. She mixes him some iced tea in the mean time - laced with antifreeze coolant. When Joey finally returns, Alby is slumped over the couch. "You can't just go around trying to poison everyone who's mean to us!" he yells at his wife.

And:

Joey can't keep his brother in the dark any longer, and it doesn't take Bill long to figure out that Wanda poisoned their father as well. Joey continues to explain how she called Bill because she felt guilty that he wouldn't get to say goodbye to his father.

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/episode/season1/episode12.html

That's not the only reason. She felt shut out by the other two wives; she had no idea about "the affair", for example, and was going nuts locked up in that house all day long with her little out of control ankle biters. Along comes a "friend" that seems genuinely interested in her, and she went for it, who wouldn't? The fact that the "friend" was just doing what all good LDSers do, recruiting, is beside the point.

Your point is true as well.

Don't feel bad. Everybody else missed it too...
Are we all brain-dead or suffering from pre-Alzheimer’s. :eek: Man, I’m glad I’m not the only one that can’t remember something I just watched 2 days ago. WTF is going on with us? I know lots of people who can’t remember things that happened just days before. Hell, sometimes I forget why I walked from one room to another. Information overload? I don’t know, but I don’t like it. This has happened to my older brother, and I told him he could have smoked pot and enjoyed it like me and it wouldn’t have made any difference – the brain still goes. :D

Are we all brain-dead or suffering from pre-Alzheimer’s. :eek: Man, I’m glad I’m not the only one that can’t remember something I just watched 2 days ago. WTF is going on with us? I know lots of people who can’t remember things that happened just days before. Hell, sometimes I forget why I walked from one room to another. Information overload? I don’t know, but I don’t like it. This has happened to my older brother, and I told him he could have smoked pot and enjoyed it like me and it wouldn’t have made any difference – the brain still goes. :D

Funny you mention that. I was taking a shower at 5:45 this morning and I forgot what day it. I closed my eyes for a minute, opened them, and I thought that it was Saturday night and that I was getting ready to go out with my friends and see some girls. Recently I've forgotten what I did the previous day or I see different girls at the gym whom I've seen and talked to before but I can't remember their names. They all look alike to me. Being 29, it's kinda sad to forget so quickly and embarrassing when a girl you see 5 days a week realizes that you have no clue who see his. :o

Are we all brain-dead or suffering from pre-Alzheimer’s. :eek: Man, I’m glad I’m not the only one that can’t remember something I just watched 2 days ago. WTF is going on with us? I know lots of people who can’t remember things that happened just days before. Hell, sometimes I forget why I walked from one room to another. Information overload? I don’t know, but I don’t like it. This has happened to my older brother, and I told him he could have smoked pot and enjoyed it like me and it wouldn’t have made any difference – the brain still goes. :D
So true, so very true, pathetic isn't it..? :p

Very impressive season ending episode on BIG LOVE. I liked the scene at the end when all the women were together

Would rate SOPRANOS best, DEADWOOD 2ND, BIG LOVE in 3rd place - way more interesting than the quite confusing ROME and less depressing than SIX FEET UNDER

Very impressive season ending episode on BIG LOVE. I liked the scene at the end when all the women were together

Would rate SOPRANOS best, DEADWOOD 2ND, BIG LOVE in 3rd place - way more interesting than the quite confusing ROME and less depressing than SIX FEET UNDER

Are you kidding ? Six Feet Under , although often depressing was far more thought provoking, deeper and intense than Big Love will ever be.

The series finale to Six Feet Under was one of the best ever.

The complexity of each SFU character was leaps and bounds above any Big Love persona.

just my 2cents.

I agree. As if Barb is going to get the award...go home, and that be the end of it? No follow-up by the newspaper...no television interviews...no calls from women in the community about get-togethers, joining clubs, speaking engagements, etc., etc.? Yet everyone was so adamant that Margene end her relationship with the neighbor across the street – go figure...



I think it's unrealistic too but they did try to provide a motivation for that. It was the same reason Bill wanted to join the leadership league. They just figured "why not us? we're good people, why do we have to keep letting this hold us back from doing some normal things?"

what I think unrealistic is Roman outing them. Doesn't that put HIM at risk too? And it's his daughter he's outing too. If Roman is so powerful, there must be other ways for him to hit back without using the nuclear option. Roman is 10x the polygamist Bill is; hasn't he heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

I think it's unrealistic too but they did try to provide a motivation for that. It was the same reason Bill wanted to join the leadership league. They just figured "why not us? we're good people, why do we have to keep letting this hold us back from doing some normal things?"

what I think unrealistic is Roman outing them. Doesn't that put HIM at risk too? And it's his daughter he's outing too. If Roman is so powerful, there must be other ways for him to hit back without using the nuclear option. Roman is 10x the polygamist Bill is; hasn't he heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

Great post. It was a combination of vanity and a quest for "normality" on Barb's part.

As for what Roman did, if you are a parent - remember the scene where Roman asked Bill "Where's Alby?" Bill said "I don't know" Roman said, "I don't believe you" - you can understand Roman's call to the Govener's office. Even though he treated Alby like a dog, he went ballistic when he thought Bill had harmed him. He loves him.

The complexity of each SFU character was leaps and bounds above any Big Love persona.

Ya think this has anything to do with the fact that Six Feet Under developed its characters over 63 episodes, while Big Love has only broadcast 12 episodes to date?

I wonder how soon this thread will fall off the map. I'm betting a new thread will appear sometime before next season, unless someone wants to bump this one on a daily basis?

The finale was pretty good. It created tension & uncertainty, but not in the same way of a life or death cliffhanger (or even the Who Shot Mr. Burns episode). I have to keep reminding myself that it's television programming rather than real life. The whole scene with the governor's wife looking so utterly disgusted when affirmed of the polygamous lifestyle was a bit of a stretch. In reality, I doubt any politician or politician's wife would act that way in a similar situation (I'm obviously speaking of those in Utah).

Will it be an all-out clan war next season? Hummer gangs vs the rest? Why is it that Roman isn't simply banned from entering Bill's store(s)? Then again, how is it that Roman & his inbred croonies can simply walk into Bill's office without being stopped somewhere? So many questions about where the story concept might lead...

I think it's unrealistic too but they did try to provide a motivation for that. It was the same reason Bill wanted to join the leadership league. They just figured "why not us? we're good people, why do we have to keep letting this hold us back from doing some normal things?"

what I think unrealistic is Roman outing them. Doesn't that put HIM at risk too? And it's his daughter he's outing too. If Roman is so powerful, there must be other ways for him to hit back without using the nuclear option. Roman is 10x the polygamist Bill is; hasn't he heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

The way I see it even if Bill was to send all those files on Roman to those sources,the fact that he is a polygamist as well would sort of make the information irrelevent.

The way I see it even if Bill was to send all those files on Roman to those sources,the fact that he is a polygamist as well would sort of make the information irrelevent.

While that is true, I think Roman falls in the same catagory many of the mafia guys who get caught. It is not the fact that they killed someone, but they didn't pay their taxes! And I bet Roman has LOTS of unpaid taxes on profits that could lock him up longer than being a polygamist!! Jail is jail! ;)

Warren Jeffs captured:link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14569632/)

Does anybody know if and when Big Love is coming back on the air?

Does anybody know if and when Big Love is coming back on the air?

If only the internet had some sort of user-edited encyclopedia of everything...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Love

Does anybody know if and when Big Love is coming back on the air?

June 10th, I think.