Long time lurker... First time poster. I'm a newbie, so please be gentle.

I'm in the process of setting up my first home theater. I recently renovated my basement with the sole purpose of making it a movie/video game room. Its dimensions are about 14x15 ft and its wired for 7.1.

I purchased the Onkyo S780 and made the mistake of reading these forums. I thought it sounded pretty darn good... and now I'm not sure. The surround speakers sound a bit fuzzy... and apparently "Onkyo speakers have no clarity."

Many people seem to recommend the Athena speakers and the 12" Dayton. My surrounds need to be wall mounted, but my rear surrounds can sit on a book case. I have nice mounts for the fronts and the center will sit on the component cabinet.

Here is my dilemma: Should I keep the receiver that came with the 780 and upgrade the fronts and rear surrounds to Athena B1.2's and the Dayton Sub? Are there wall mounted Athenas for my surrounds? Will my current receiver be underpowered? Should I upgrade the receiver and start over from scratch?

I'd really appreciate any recommendations that you can provide... my Panasonic 42px60u should be here next week. I'm willing to piece it all together over time, but I'm afraid of creating some kind of Frankenstein system on my own.

Thanks in advance.

the most noticeable upgrade would be the speakers. the B1's are nice bookshelf speakers that are a great L&R solution if paired with a good sub. the S.5's are smaller and come with excellent mounting brackets. i'm using them as surrounds, and they get the job done, but B1's would be better...i just don't have the room for them as surrounds right now.

the 780 receiver is a fine entry level piece, i would worry more about replacing the speakers and sub first. the receiver will do you fine for now.

the sub is a whole 'nother animal. the dayton would be a step up from the onkyo sub, but there are increasing returns as you spend more $$. depends on how high you want to go.

Thanks G-Star. So, you think it would be best to do the B1's for L, R, and C, then consider .5's for the Surrounds, and B1's for my rear.... and keep my Onkyo receiver (for now).

What kind of sub would you recommend? I've heard a good deal about SVS, but I don't know if I'm willing to go to that level. If I had a limit of $500, could you give me a few recommendations?

Would I see much of an improvement on my above set-up by replacing the receiver, or would my Onkyo handle it well?

I'm most interested in getting "bang for my buck". If replacing the speakers will be the biggest improvement, that's where I'll start. If changing out my sub or receiver will do great things, then I'll start there.

thank you.

I was in your shoes about a month ago. You can read some of "my story" starting here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7143085&&#post7143085

and more of it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7161295&&#post7161295

I don't know what kind of budget you are looking at for your system, but you can put together some nice things for not much more than what you paid for the S780.

The best thing I did was to listen to a few sets of speakers at the audio store and take a pair home that sounded good and were within my budget. Doing an A/B on the speakers I took home and the ones that came with the Onkyo was a night and day difference.

I am not going to make recommendations on specific brands speakers because everyone has different tastes. The best place to invest your money is a well matched set of fronts and a center, then a sub, then surrounds. As far as replacing speakers and keeping the receiver - you can get some pretty good receivers for $400-$500 that will be better than the included Onkyo depending on your needs. Many people find the Pioneer VSX-1015TX to be a stand out in this price range. Others will recommend refurbed HKs. If you can find a shop in your area that will let you buy and return or better yet borrow then you will be much better served.

So, figure out your budget, then accept the fact that when all is said and done you'll spend 20% more than that and you'll be able to piece together a great system.

i would suggest either AS-B1.2's or AS-F1.2's for fronts, the AS-C1.2 for the center, and the Point 5's for surrounds like G-Star recommended. you don't need to go overboard with the rear and rear surround speakers, they will be played the least, and the Point 5's do come with excellent mounting brackets and seem like your best option...

as far as the subwoofer goes, honestly i would shoot higher than the Dayton, considering the system is going to be in a game room. i would personally recommend the Acoustech BIC H-100, i think it's the best subwoofer you'll find for under $300, and in a room like you want something better than an entry level subwoofer...

as far as the receiver goes, you can use the Onkyo receiver for now, but i would recommend that you get rid of it as soon as you can. it will get you by if your budget's tight, but the speakers will sound much better with a better receiver, like the HK135/140 or HK235/240. you can find either of those refurbished for under $300, and you will DEFINITELY notice a difference in sound quality just by changing the receiver...

i would agree with all of the suggestions so far. i like the athena sound, and they are MUCH better than the onkyo speakers, but they can be tough to find to audition in person, so its a small gamble. i'd also look at klipsch, polk, infinity, jbl, if you're going to do some auditioning.

516 is right about the receiver, something like the pio 1014/15 or H/K 235/240 will give you more features, power, and SQ, but it will probably make the least noticeable impact relative to changing the sub/speakers, IMO.

a good sub will make your system sound noticeably better. a great sub will absolutely knock your socks off, and not just at high volumes/low frequencies. properly calibrated, it will make everything sound more rich and full. there are tons of options for under $500. the sub 516 recommended has a good reputation, and would be a big step up from the dayton. if you're willing to go for a best in class under $500 sub, the SVS PB-10, mirage S-12, or HSU STF series would be the cream of the crop and would be better performers in terms of deep, clean extension.

you have to decide on what you want to spend. 5 athenas, a new receiver, and a great sub are going to cost a lot more than the 780, but you'll know where your money went instantly. if you want to keep it in the same price range, i'd keep the receiver and start by replacing the speakers and sub. keep in mind you can sell those onkyo speakers and sub on ebay/craigslist and offset the cost of new equipment. that's what i did. ;)

good luck.

If I had a limit of $500, could you give me a few recommendations?
do you mean a limit of $500 for just the subwoofer, or the entire system? if you mean just the subwoofer, then go with the SVS PB10. if you mean the entire system, that's going to be tough, without going entry level on everything...

When I started my basement remodel, the floor was covered with 4 layers of decomposing carpet and a few inches of dirt... I thought I might just clean it up and throw on some drywall and fresh paint, then get a HTIB and a decent DLP.

Now, after $10k for running recessed lighting, electricity, wood flooring, insulation, drywall, paint, and ventilation, plus another $5k in furniture... I'm willing to spend a little more than I had planned for my speakers, receiver, and sub.

I really respect the knowledge in this forum and appreciate all recommendations. I'm not sure where I could go to audition many high-end speakers in my area, but if there are enough glowing reviews, I'll take the gamble and buy online. I don't have much brand loyalty and have only focused on the Athenas because of their reputation on this forum.

I've already realized that I'm going to spend more than I planned on... My original $5k remodel has ballooned into well over $20k after factoring in my plasma and sound system.

I don't want to reach the point of diminishing returns and buy components that I couldn't differentiate from something cheaper or something overkill for my room (14x15 w/ 7 ft ceilings). I don't have specific price points and would not be uncomfortable buying a $500 sub, as long as it was valuable to my system.

With that said, I'm leaning towards G-Stars recommendation and upgrading speakers first, then sub, then receiver. I can afford to do it all at once, but after all the damage to my bank balance the past 2 months, I'd be more comfortable doing a little at a time over the next few months(at least until I break in my plasma).

Also, thank you Five One Six and G-Star, I'm planning on taking your advice on the B1.2's for L,R and the C1.2, then the point 5's for surrounds. I'm going to try and research the Acoustech BIC H-100 and SVS PB10 on the forums. Then I'll look at a new receiver... this peer pressure is killing me.

I haven't made my upgrade purchases yet, so if anyone else has recommendations, I'm open to them...

thank you,
mark

After doing a listening session with the H100 this weekend, I've got to say you won't be disappointed. It sounds like a much more expensive sub, musical and capable to 25hz with enough output for your room. As G-star and 516 both said, spending the additional $200 bucks for the PB10 raises the bar considerably. It's a different level of performance...

I swapped out my gear over months and sold the Onkyo system on craiglist for more than it was selling for online at the time. So by all means take your time. LCR, surrounds, sub and receiver is a reasonable order for upgrading.

if you're going to go with the Athena's, which is a good choice, i would definitely recommend going with a HK receiver over a Pioneer or Onkyo. don't get me wrong, Pioneer and Onkyo make good receivers, but i personally think the Athena's sound better with a HK...

yes, i use a Pioneer 1014 with the AS-F1's and AS-C1, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. i know some people that have used the same speakers with both Pioneer and HK receivers, and they will tell you that the speakers will sound brighter with the Pioneer. that type of sound is not fine with everyone, to me it is, but to you it may not be...

if you're going to go with the Athena's, which is a good choice, i would definitely recommend going with a HK receiver over a Pioneer or Onkyo. don't get me wrong, Pioneer and Onkyo make good receivers, but i personally think the Athena's sound better with a HK...

yes, i use a Pioneer 1014 with the AS-F1's and AS-C1, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. i know some people that have used the same speakers with both Pioneer and HK receivers, and they will tell you that the speakers will sound brighter with the Pioneer. that type of sound is not fine with everyone, to me it is, but to you it may not be...

Funny you should mention that...my HK is in for repair/exchange and I borrowed a 1015. With my Polks and the EQ, the Pio tamed some of the brightness and did some neat things with the soundstage. The HK has a different sound, great separation and punch, seems more powerful than the Pio, but for a smooth warm sound, the EQ'd Pio wins. Strange what a room will do...

I've seen many HK advocates in this forum and that's the way that I started leaning once I made the decision to upgrade (with help from all of you).
Should I focus on the 235/240 or is there another model that could be right for me?

On another note, I purchased an SPL meter last night. I'm still a newbie, so I have no idea what I'm doing... I read somewhere on the forum that you want to get the level to 75db...

When I calibrate my speakers using the receiver's test tone (fuzzy static), where do I measure from? If I were in my listening location, then with the receiver volume cranked way up to 40 (of 79), I would need to increase the speakers to +12 (max) to get to 75 db. To what level should I set my sub? (I just want everything to sound as good as it can until I start my upgrades, and get the knowledge necessary to set up my upgraded components properly).

All help is greatly appreciated.

You want to use your spl meter from your "sweet spot" i.e. where you will be sitting most of the time and where you want the best sound to be. You should hold it at ear level slightly pointed towards your front speakers. Choose a speaker and play white noise from that speaker only (I would reccomend your center speaker). Set the individual speaker volume so it is at neutral (depends on your system but either at a 0 level or half way between your lowest and highest). Now use the master volume control on your receiver untill the white noise reads 75 dB on your spl meter. Now go through and using white noise that alternates around all speakers set the individual speaker levels till they all read 75 dB on the spl meter. Do not touch the master volume control during this time. This includes the sub although if you watch alot of action movies it is likely you will want to calibrate the sub several dB above everything else. With the sub feel free to play around some as it is not as important to have it equalized (especially if you do not listen to a lot of music on the system). Once done you have calibrated your speaker to play acurately at 10 dB below reference (more then loud enough for most people...but you can also calibrate at 85 dB which is reference level).

Thank you Jorge_Burrito.

Ok, it looks like I'm going with the following (in order of purchase):

L,R - Athena B1.2
C - Athena C1.2
Surround and Rears - Athena .5s
Sub - SVS PB10
Receiver - HK 240? (unless there's arguments for better options)

Ron Temple - Do you think the Pio (and which one) could be a better match after your recent experience? If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

Five One Six - What do you mean when you say that the speakers sound "brighter"? After you mentioned that the Pio sounds brighter and Ron mentioned that the Pio "tamed" the brightness, I don't know what to think. Is it an issue of the room's dimensions?

If anyone out there has other options that are comparable/better than what I'm shooting for, please let me know. Anyone? Anyone? ...Bueller?

Ok, it looks like I'm going with the following (in order of purchase):

L,R - Athena B1.2
C - Athena C1.2
Surround and Rears - Athena .5s
Sub - SVS PB10
Receiver - HK 240? (unless there's arguments for better options)


you might consider buying a refurbished H/K 235 instead of the 240. the 235 is the 2004 model, and is very similar to the 240 in terms of power and features. you can probably save yourself at least $100 this way. take a look at harman direct on ebay, they auction stuff off every day. the receiver comes with a 2 year warranty, and i could not find cosmetic damage when i bought one.

BTW...your proposed setup is identical to what i have now, except i've got the H/K 235. so i can tell you from experience...i started with a 780, and this combo absolutely smokes it. a bit more $$, but the returns in SQ and HT enjoyment are enormous :D

Thank you Jorge_Burrito.

Ok, it looks like I'm going with the following (in order of purchase):

L,R - Athena B1.2
C - Athena C1.2
Surround and Rears - Athena .5s
Sub - SVS PB10
Receiver - HK 240? (unless there's arguments for better options)

Ron Temple - Do you think the Pio (and which one) could be a better match after your recent experience? If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

Five One Six - What do you mean when you say that the speakers sound "brighter"? After you mentioned that the Pio sounds brighter and Ron mentioned that the Pio "tamed" the brightness, I don't know what to think. Is it an issue of the room's dimensions?

If anyone out there has other options that are comparable/better than what I'm shooting for, please let me know. Anyone? Anyone? ...Bueller?

Good choices...my comments were just an aside to 516. We had previously discussed Athena's bright tweeters and his Pio. I opted for an HK235 and loved the sound. When I put in the 1015 and Eqd the speakers I noticed a different sound and the brightness of my Polks( which are pretty bright as well, but not as bright as the Athenas) seemed better integrated. However, the HK, in my room, is louder and punchier. Everyone's ears are different and I had been hearing my setup the same way for months. At least temporarily, it's different, I like it, and I'm going to play with it for awhile before I decide what to keep.

I think the refurb HK is the best bang for the buck, features, power and sound quality. Go the ebay route or www.harmanaudio.com.

G Star, thanks for the advice on the refurb. Saving a little cash could be a very good thing right now... (seeing how I've already gone way over budget)

Do you have any recommendations on good deals on Athenas or the SVS sub? I don't have any issues purchasing online as long as the seller comes recommended.

thanks

Do you have any recommendations on good deals on Athenas or the SVS sub? I don't have any issues purchasing online as long as the seller comes recommended.

i got my athena auditions when they were on closeout last year from audio advisor, and they were running some great deals. the new B1.2's/C1.2 are a little more money now, but still a great deal at $120pr and $140ea, respectively.

the point 5's are a little tougher....they seem to be rare commodoties these days. it looks like audio advisor has them in stock, but at $175/pr. i was lucky enough to grab a pair off ebay for $110 shippped, so do some looking around. onecall.com might have some in stock.

forget about any deals on the SVS, the best you're going to do is to be lucky enough to get a PB-10 in B-stock for about $50 less than a new one, but they don't last. check the SVS website routinely to see if one pops up. alternatively, you might have some luck on ebay or audiogon, but those are even more of a longshot, and will be used pieces. SVS only sells direct...no authorized outside dealers that i know of.

Apparently, I'm not a very patient person...

This morning, I ordered the B 1.2's and C1.2 from Audio Advisor... and tried to order some point 5's from Amazon. The point 5's looked like a very good deal, but when I made my order it gave me a delivery date between 5/26 and 5/31... I hope that it's a mistake, but who knows.

After I get the speakers all set up, I'll make sure to come back to this forum and give my impressions... and post some pics of my new theater room.

If anyone reading this is in the market for an HTIB, only because they don't know their options, I highly recommend taking the time to ask and research... or else you'll risk having a nagging question mark in the back of your mind saying: "it sounds pretty good to me, but how good could it sound?"

Thanks to everyone who gave their opinions and recommendations.

or else you'll risk having a nagging question mark in the back of your mind saying: "it sounds pretty good to me, but how good could it sound?"

ah, the eternal AVS question. we may never know the answer, but maybe therin lies the fun. :D

I'm back to report on my recent upgrades... After hooking up my B1s and C1, I was amazed at the improvement immediately. The music on movies seemed much richer and the dialog was more crisp.

I was playing a movie downstairs and left the room to get something to drink, I heard something hit the ground and make a rolling sound. I thought, "crap! the cats knocked over something down there!!" I ran downstairs and saw that nothing was out of place and the crash was on the movie...

I'm looking forward to buying that SVS PB10 sub, the popular HK 235, and the point 5s for surrounds when I can find them. AVSforum strikes again.

I've read many posts where people are either bashing HTIBs or needlessly protecting them. I do not regret buying the Onkyo. I was intimidated by going the component route and this was my first venture into home theater. I'm sure that many people could purchase this HTIB and be very happy (my neighbor is one of these people and wants to by it from me after I upgrade the whole system). If I never found this forum, I would have been very satisfied with the Onkyo... However, I'm extremely happy with my upgrades and would like to thank all who contributed.

Congrats Mark!


Now stop being PC, and just admit the Onkyo speakers failed miserably at movie dialog :D

Also, keep in mind that when you add those Point 5s as surrounds, you will have no mid-bass coming out of the rear channels.

After getting used to the lovely bass precense of those B1s, are you sure you want your rear speakers to sound like clock radios on the walls? Imagine watching a Vietnam movie, and the helicopters fly from the front to to the rear...
They pass over the front with this meaty THWUP-THWUP-THWUP sound, then as they fly over to the back they sound like: THIT-THIT-THIT

Move the B1s to the back ... and tell me that another pair back there wouldn't just make the system :)

Darnit JohnR... I thought I was all set... just kidding.

Unfortunately my surrounds have to hang on walls, so I think I'm stuck with the point 5s... however, my rear surrounds can sit on bookshelves. Do you think it's worth it to put B1's back there? Do you have other suggestions than the point 5's for the sides?

After I buy that SVS sub, HK receiver, and surrounds, I need to get the hell out of this forum for at least a year.

congrats on the new system man. if you get all those pieces you were talking about, you and i will have identical systems. john's right about the surrounds, but the point 5's do a respectable job. the H/K 235 allows you to set different cross-overs for each channel, so i've got my B1's/C1 crossed over at 80Hz and the surrounds crossed over at 100Hz. that alleviates some of those issues. you're really going to enjoy the added power and flexibility of that H/K.

and just wait 'till you get that PB-10.... :D :D :D

Nice going Mark...you're hooked for sure now. You'll be using the 235 as a pre/pro with monoblocks, moving your fronts to surround duty, picking up some F2.2s, scheming on an Ascend 340SE 7.2 system with dual Ultras...heck you'll have 2 grand into this w/i 8 mos., 5gs w/i 18mos...divorced in 3 years.

Enjoy AVS and your new hobby :D ;)

I just ordered the SVS PB10. Thank you and damn you all. :-)

My point 5 surrounds have shipping dates in late May. sigh...

At this rate, I'll be ordering the HK 235 by next week. I was very impressed with the Athenas from everyone's recommendation. I'll be back soon to post my impressions of the PB10.

G-Star, thanks for the info on the crossover. Once I get that HK, I may have more questions on that topic along with calibration.

I'm glad I found this thread as I"m getting ready to make the jump to an upgrade pretty soon.

My first really HT started when we moved into our 1st house and I got a plasma for the living room. I bought the Onkyo 6.1 HTIB I think the 760 is the model. It's a few years old.

I've been happy but now we are moving to our new home and I want to upgrade since space is no longer a problem.

The speakers will be on stands so what do you suggest. Would this same setup work for me.

Once we get moved in and I can feel save bringing this up to the wife I'll begin the upgrade process. Very interested to hear how you like the subs.

Certainly it will be a huge step up...another speaker to consider if you'd like to go floorstanders in front would be the Polk R30s, CSi25 center and R15 surrounds from Frys or Outpost.com. When on sale, they go for $80/pr, $70 and $40/pr. They are similar to the Athenas, perhaps not as bright...very good value speakers.

I just noticed bestbuy.com had the athena's for about the same price as audio advisor. I might mosey on by there some day and see if they have any displays up.

I notice a lot of user opt for the F2.2 floorstanding athenas rather than the B1.2 bookeshelf speakers. Any reason to get one over another?

I notice a lot of user opt for the F2.2 floorstanding athenas rather than the B1.2 bookeshelf speakers. Any reason to get one over another?

price would be a big one. a pair of B1.2's will be significantly cheaper than a pair of F2.2's.

on their own, the F2.2's will clearly out-perform the B1.2's at the lower end. however, many people choose to sink their money into a really good sub and go with bookshelves like the B1.2's. crossed-over properly, good bookshelf speakers paired with good sub will sound great. good floorstanders and a good sub might sound even better, but will cost more $$.

some people just prefer floorstanders over bookshelf speakers, or vice versa. depends on your tastes and budget really.

So if I was getting the SVS sub talked about in this forum and I already had the stands the best route will be th B1.2's.

THX

Good Speaker Stands may cost $100/pair so I think many people choose floor standers for that reason. Once you factor that in the delta in cost in less than you may think...

Sean

My sub arrived today...

I think there's a chance that this thing could damage my house. Single pane glass windows, plaster walls, and original tile from 1936.

Other than that, it is amazing. After all the glowing reviews that I've read online and on this forum, I was still impressed. I thought "I already have all these speakers... the sub just does the deep sounds... how much could it do?"

I plugged it in and calibrated it according to the directions (although I may have some questions on the "phase" knob later). The instruction manual gave a few recommended movies and scenes to check out. I put in the Matrix and skipped to the LFE bits. Holy crap. My mouth dropped open and then eventually formed into a big gaping smile. I felt like I was punched in the gut and I liked it.

Thanks everyone for your input... I'm sure I'll have more questions shortly, but for now I'm going to go watch stuff blow up.

So if I was getting the SVS sub talked about in this forum and I already had the stands the best route will be th B1.2's.

THX

The sub will help the Bs, thats for sure ... But you will still get something out of the F series ...a wider, deeper front soundstage.

My sub arrived today...

I think there's a chance that this thing could damage my house. Single pane glass windows, plaster walls, and original tile from 1936.

Other than that, it is amazing. After all the glowing reviews that I've read online and on this forum, I was still impressed. I thought "I already have all these speakers... the sub just does the deep sounds... how much could it do?"

I plugged it in and calibrated it according to the directions (although I may have some questions on the "phase" knob later). The instruction manual gave a few recommended movies and scenes to check out. I put in the Matrix and skipped to the LFE bits. Holy crap. My mouth dropped open and then eventually formed into a big gaping smile. I felt like I was punched in the gut and I liked it.

Thanks everyone for your input... I'm sure I'll have more questions shortly, but for now I'm going to go watch stuff blow up.Now you know...I went through 6 subs in 8 mos. before I gave in. There's just no comparison unless you spend alot more money.

just a little bit better than that onkyo sub, huh? ;)

G-star - did you mess with the Phase knob on the back? Do I need a different gauge other than the SPL to use it?

Ron - I'm so glad that I went for the SVS. I have a friend at work in the market for a sub. He's going with the Athena 4000, (only wants to spend $150 or so) and I'm sure after he sees/feels the SVS, he'll start thinking about upgrading. While perusing through this forum, I read about your upgrades somewhere. I didn't know that a good quality sub would do so much!

G-star - did you mess with the Phase knob on the back? Do I need a different gauge other than the SPL to use it?

Ron - I'm so glad that I went for the SVS. I have a friend at work in the market for a sub. He's going with the Athena 4000, (only wants to spend $150 or so) and I'm sure after he sees/feels the SVS, he'll start thinking about upgrading. While perusing through this forum, I read about your upgrades somewhere. I didn't know that a good quality sub would do so much!

ha, i guess ron learned the hard way, and others (myself included) benefitted from his experience and advice. i decided to go straight from the onkyo sub to SVS PB-10. its hands down my favorite part of the system, and i am really glad that i took that leap instead of settling for a $200 sub. thanks ron! :p

mark, the phase knob is there so you can make adjustments if you're getting interfernce from your main speakers, which may be an issue if the sub is placed close to the mains. as far as i know, the only way to know for sure (supposing you can't hear any anomalies) is to use the SPL meter to plot your room response by doing some sine wave sweeps from 200 - 20Hz. avia has these sweeps, but i found it hard to do by hand without a program (the frequencies change too fast). there's a program out there if you've got a lap top that will make charting your in-room response very easy, but i don't remember what its called. the guys in the subwoofer forum would be able to help you out there for sure.

your other option is to download some frequency specific sine waves, burn them to CD, and plot your room response at constant MV (master volume) this way (SPL vs. frequency). this is something i've been contemplating, but i'm afraid to do it, b/c i've heard sine waves at high volumes for more than a few seconds can cook the voice coil in the sub. one of these days i'm going to do it. the ultimate goal is to get the flattest curve possible, either by moving the sub to a different location, and/or by adjusting the phase of the output. again, the guys in the sub forum can probably provide more detailed help. i just know enough to be dangerous. :eek:

I'm actually out of pocket for 1 XSub and a replacement driver plus the SVS and I got to hear some decent gear...

I'm actually out of pocket for 1 XSub and a replacement driver plus the SVS and I got to hear some decent gear...

it must have been fut to get to hear all those different subs. you probably understand better than anyone what the strengths and weaknesses are in the $200 - $600 subwoofer class. glad to hear that it didn't cost you too much $$ in the end, and that your wife hasn't thrown you out yet! ;)

it must have been fut to get to hear all those different subs. you probably understand better than anyone what the strengths and weaknesses are in the $200 - $600 subwoofer class. glad to hear that it didn't cost you too much $$ in the end, and that your wife hasn't thrown you out yet! ;)

Yeah, I've heard or auditioned quite a few subs over the last year from about $250 shipped to $2500. It's been fun...yes, my wife has lost patience, but she started it by buying me a htib. ;)

Ok,

I've now moved and and am ready to start my upgrade path pretty much similiar to what chancellormark did.

L,R - Athena B1.2
C - Athena C1.2
Surround and Rears - Athena .5s
Sub - SVS PB10
Receiver - HK 240

I have an Onkyo 760 6.1 system so I'll start out going pretty much in the same order.

My question is about Audio Advisor. Are they pretty reliable? I noticed Best Buy had them for a little more money but now they are sold out so I might go ahead and go with AA.

I'll post as I get the speakers.

I went ahead and order a pair of the B1.2's from Audio Advisor. Should be 2-5 days from UPS so I'll post when I receive them.

rlu929s: It looks like a few of us are copying G-Star's set up. :)

If you look on the first page of this thread, G-Star also recommended the HK 235 (last years model, refurb).

I bought my B1.2's and C1.2 from AA and thought they were great: good price, speedy delivery. I would definitely recommend them.

I'm having trouble getting the point 5's. I found them on Amazon, but they showed as "out of stock" when I ordered. My order shows May 28 as the delivery date... and I ordered at the beginning of March. I don't know if Athena is changing this model or if they are having supply issues, but they aren't easy to find.

I'll be ordering my HK 235 next month, and hopefully have the point 5's soon.

good luck,
Mark

:D :D :D

the athena/HK/SVS setup was a big step up from the onkyo HTIB. better receiver, much better speakers, and the PB-10 is light years beyond the onkyo sub....a monster performer on every level. the setup can't compete with the onkyo in terms of price, but the performance gains from those extra dollars are clearly evident every time i sit down to enjoy it. it was worth every extra penny to me. its a nice entry level setup for small to medium sized rooms, and i won't have the urge to upgrade until i get into a bigger space.

i had a great experience with audio advisor. i got a great deal on the original athena audition series when they were on closeout, and the speakers arrived promptly in perfect condition. i would recommend them to anybody.

I am also going with that same setup but am not going to spend as much on a sub b/c i am on the 2nd floor of an apartment right now..i will definitely upgrade the sub in the future though..i wish i could get the pb-10 :( ...anyways i have that same athena setup and I was looking at getting the h/k 240 but i have also seen a lot about the pioneer 1015....which of these amps would you guys recommend and think is better and why?...thanks!

p.s. by the way the only speakers i have so far are the s.5s...i got them on amazon like a week and a half ago...they were only $50 and it said there was only one pair left so i went ahead and jumped on them :)

I am also going with that same setup but am not going to spend as much on a sub b/c i am on the 2nd floor of an apartment right now..i will definitely upgrade the sub in the future though..i wish i could get the pb-10 :( ...anyways i have that same athena setup and I was looking at getting the h/k 240 but i have also seen a lot about the pioneer 1015....which of these amps would you guys recommend and think is better and why?...thanks!

p.s. by the way the only speakers i have so far are the s.5s...i got them on amazon like a week and a half ago...they were only $50 and it said there was only one pair left so i went ahead and jumped on them :)516 should chime in on this because he has the 1014 w/Athenas and recommended the 235 to me. Meaning he thought the Pio was too bright with the Athena B1s and wanted a warmer sound. Well, I recently lost my HK for 3 weeks and temporarily put a 1015 in it's place. Some content was bright, but the MCACCA and manual adjust gave me a more balanced richer sound. I've since returned the Pio...still love the HK, but wished I'd gone north for the EQ that comes with the 435/635.

I am also going with that same setup but am not going to spend as much on a sub b/c i am on the 2nd floor of an apartment right now..i will definitely upgrade the sub in the future though..i wish i could get the pb-10 :( ...


well, if it makes you feel any better, i'm on the 2nd floor of an apartment as well, and i got the PB-10. sure, it will knock your socks off those rare times when i can really crank it, but it adds a depth and richness to the whole sound, even at low, apartment-level volumes. after i calibrated everything, the system sounded at least twice as good.

the sub was hands down the most dramatic improvement during my upgrade process...even though i rarely use it to its full potential.

If you get the HK 235...let me know where you get it from. I was going the 240 because I'm always afraid to buy electronics used.

rlu929s: I believe Ron Temple recommended www.harmanaudio.com for the HK 235. If you look at the "specials" section under Harman Kardon, you'll find it. This section is for "Factory Remanufactured" products.

G-Star recommended Harman Direct on Ebay. Either way, you'll get a good deal. I haven't ordered mine yet, but will within a couple weeks.

Excellent. That's a pretty good price. That's nuts considering that I was just at CC and they still had the 235 selling for the regular price.

If I had it to do over again, this is the HK I would try to win off ebay for ~ $375-400...

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=AVR%20435-Z&status=

Room EQ makes quite a difference in my setup, even though it must be tweaked. I went with the 235 and have been very pleased, but had I known...

The AVR-435 intrigues me too, but I've got my 325 calibrated pretty well and I could spend that $400 on a new set of golf clubs. I've had 4 receivers since 1999 but only one set of clubs. Its time to focus on my other addiction.

Besides, maybe when the 440 or 445 and 645 gets released, I might be able to get the 435 for $300 somewhere. The prices only go down.

Room EQ makes quite a difference in my setup, even though it must be tweaked. I went with the 235 and have been very pleased, but had I known...


ron...pardon my ignorance, but what does room EQ do for you that calibration with an SPL meter doesn't? i've heard of it on the higher end H/K models, but never sure exactly what it was.

ron...pardon my ignorance, but what does room EQ do for you that calibration with an SPL meter doesn't? i've heard of it on the higher end H/K models, but never sure exactly what it was.Not sure about EZ Setup/EQ on the HK units, but I've heard it's pretty good. Using MCACCA (which is supposedly the best), it cut some frequencies in my room at, IIRC, about 6 points from 120hz to 10khz. It goes through the process with a mic placed in the LP, balances the speakers and sub, panning, etc. It brought my midrange to life. I've got a bright room with alot of reflections. I really need to treat it, but EQ made quite a difference. I had to go back in and manually change some of the settings, but overall, I'd say it's worth it.

The SPL meter just does volume calibration.

Room Equilization does frequency response calibration.

So it may measure amplitude at 100 hz, 1000 hz, 2000hz 3000hz 10,000hz from all 5 speakers, then adjust them so that that all frequency bands play at the same decible level.

Subs have this feature also, but they focus on the low frequencies.

So Ideally you would have a room correcting sub smooth out the low frequencies, and the receiver smooth out all the other frequencies ...

here we go again...

Now that I've heard about the HK 435, that's what I want. I'm glad that I made the jump to the SVS PB10 and don't plan on upgrading again for a long time. Does anyone know if HK is releasing a newer version of the 435 soon? I like what I see, but a slightly lower price would be great.

here we go again...

Now that I've heard about the HK 435, that's what I want. I'm glad that I made the jump to the SVS PB10 and don't plan on upgrading again for a long time. Does anyone know if HK is releasing a newer version of the 435 soon? I like what I see, but a slightly lower price would be great.I think the 440 is already out or has been leapfrogged to the 445. $500 for a refurb is pretty steep, I've seen them go on ebay from $375-425 (HK Direct). I haven't looked recently. You might be able to pickup a Pio 1015 for ~ $400 online and it maybe dropping soon to make room for the 1016. Now if you're going to ask me the difference in the 2 , I've already answered that question on other threads. I believe the HK is punchier (even the 235), but with the EQ in my room, I got more detail in the midrange. The amps on the Pio are supposed to be pretty good. I've heard conflicting reports about the power rating, but to my knowledge it's a nice sounding unit.

thanks for explaining the EQ feature guys...makes sense to me now. sounds like a feature that would be worth the extra $$ the next time i'm looking to buy a receiver, whenever that may be.

Hmmm maybe I'll have to wait and get the 435 instead. Since this will be the last upgrade for awhile I might as well get the good stuff.

With the setup we have above would the $200 be worth it as far as the sound difference?

Also has anyone had problems buying refurbs?

HK has been a pleasure to do business with. Their refurbs look new. My 235 took a dump after 6 mos., they replaced it within 10 days. I would only recommend this with reputable merchants or the factory with full warranty, but it's the most economical way to fly for these HKs.

Ya i was really planning on getting the h/k 240 because I had heard good things about it and that it was good with athena speakers but I have recently come across the Pio 1015 and i noticed that it has the auto EQ feature which I would really like...this would be extremely useful for me since I am a newbie at this and would have no clue how/what to calibrate on another receiver like the h/k 240...I can get the 240 for about $340 which is really more then i was planning on spending on a receiver but i thought i would stretch and get it...the pioneer seems very nice but it is like $400 which is even more then i wanted to spend lol...i am confused as what to get now :(

Mac, even if you get a receiver with EQ, you're still going to have to manually tweak it and more important, know what to tweak. It's pretty straight forward but these Auto EQ do funny things to crossover, speaker distance, size,etc. Hey it's fun to learn new stuff... ;)

I might save a little money then and just stick with the 235. My wife is already going to kill me:)

BTW: My B1.2's arrive tomorrow.

When I switch these out would it be good to move my Onkyo fronts to the surround speakers or would that be overkill?

Your goal should be to purge the Onkyo's from your system. Mine sounded better with no rear speakers, than with the Onkyos back there.

Dont forget about the Panny XR55..

Reliable with loads of power :D

The best choice of the 3 is the Pioneer 1015, but if you cant afford that I would seriously consider the Panny

It would be a temporary fix as the rears and surround are at the bottom of my upgrade list. They are pretty bulky so I might just leave the one's I have back there.

ok...got the b1.2's tonight and while the improvement wasn't huge I didn't notice they were much punchier. Next I'll try for the center since the SVS PB10 is on backorder in black:(

I have the HT-S780 and for the price it is a phenominal system, the system I had in my theater was all high end JBL's runnin on a Pioneer Elite 5.1, but that system was owned by a roomate whom I kicked out of my house... So I had to get a system fast, and IMHO this Onkyo system blows his high end JBL system out of the water, with the exception of the sub, he had a 15" Cerwin Vega, although the onkyo sub is no weakling it just doesnt measure up to that huge CV, but thats easily replaced down the road

ok...got the b1.2's tonight and while the improvement wasn't huge I didn't notice they were much punchier. Next I'll try for the center since the SVS PB10 is on backorder in black:(

the most dramatic improvement (in terms of the 5 speakers) will be upgrading the center channel. that is where about 70% of movie sounds are coming from, and that onkyo center speaker is garbage. you'll notice a dramatic improvement in midrange and especially vocal clarity. when i switched to an athena C1 from the onkyo, it was like someone removed the pillow that had been muffling all the dialog.

hold out for that PB-10...you won't regret it. the difference between the SVS and onkyo sub is analagous to the difference between a Hyuandi Scoupe and a BMW M5. :D

Excellent...I might have to get the Center ordered tonight then:)


What's your thought on these?

R1.2 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=DMATHASR1.2)

Dang you all!!! Just ordered the center from AA:)

quick question: I was looking at the refurb section on harmanaudio.com and I noticed that the HK 435 was roughly the same price as the 630. Why are these receivers so close in price even though the 630 has more power? Is the 630 just really old by comparison?

I've done some searching in the receiver threads and I can't find a direct comparison...

thanks

quick question: I was looking at the refurb section on harmanaudio.com and I noticed that the HK 435 was roughly the same price as the 630. Why are these receivers so close in price even though the 630 has more power? Is the 630 just really old by comparison?

mark, i think the 630 is either a 2002 (maybe 2003) model, so its a bit older than the X35 series, which are 2004 models. receivers tend to become outdated faster than most of your other HT components, so the 630 is starting to get a little long in the tooth, with respect to making a new purchase.

on a side note....onkyo HTIB receiver to H/K 630...gotta love AVS! :eek: ;)

I would look at the pic of the back and make sure it has all the connections of the 435....That's what I loved about it. I had plenty of audio inputs. More than my Onkyo even.

One nice thing about the 4xx and 6xx HKs is that they are upgradeable through RS232 connection. That being said the 630 had some issues that never quite got resolved before the 635 came out. The 635 recently got it's firmware updates which fixed alot of the tweaky problems. If you want a 6xx receiver, wait a couple of months for the 645 to come out, you should be able to snag a 635 for ~ $500.

Well I got my center today and it does make a difference:) Not too mention it's about twice the size of the Onkyo.

Now it's time to start saving for the sub:)

H/K 635 $599 shipped at amazon and $584 shipped at pricegrabber.com

if the .5 athenas are near impossible to find what should I get to replace my surrounds. And what about the rears. Should I keep any of the Onkyo speakers of upgrade all?

THX

Ok, I'm pretty sick of my Onkyo 780 surrounds. They weren't good to begin with and one of them has a high-pitch buzzing sound when I crank it up.

I really love my Athenas in the front and want the surrounds to match well. I had planned on buying 2 pairs of point 5s for the sides and rear. When I first started researching upgrades, there seemed to be quite a few available, now they are impossible to find (or only overpriced single speakers on ebay). I read in the Athena Owners thread that they are no longer manufacturing the Point 5s.

My rear surrounds sit on the top shelf of my bookshelves with very little rear clearance. My side surrounds are wall mounted with the wiring coming out of the wall about 5 feet high.

Does anyone have a suggestion? Should I wait to see what Athena comes out with to replace the point 5's? Should I just buy the Athena MK II point 5 system and sell the center? Should I try for the B1s for surrounds and try to wall mount them for the sides (don't they need room behind them to breathe)?

Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide.

I'm in the same boat. I want to get this surround system upgraded ASAP. I've upgraded the Fronts and the Centers with the Athena Speakers and they are great.

I really want the SUB but am still waiting.

Charcoal Black - Back-ordered till May/June

I"m tempted to get one of the other colors but I don't think it would look as good since all other speakers are black or black with silver accents like in the Athena's.

So until the black sub is in I turn to the new receiver and the surrounds.

So please let us know what would be good replacements for our Onkyo surrounds.

Also those that are doing this. How are you getting rid of your old stuff? I have 2 fronts and a center and we are having a garage sale this weekend but I'm scared to split the set up vs selling in all as a HTIB package.

What do you think?

SIDENOTE: I'm really in a hurry because I found out a few days ago that my wife is pregant with our first child and I have a feeling my toy buying days are coming to and end. At least not so frequently. Maybe some of you can chime in your thoughts in this area as well:) I'm excited though:)

Aren't the B1s rear ported? Tough to wall mount without long brackets. You might look into R1s. A more diffuse sound, but better than .5s.

Ron,

Are you talking about these?
http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=DMATHASR1.2

Do you know what they mean by DEMO?

I've got 2 surrounds and 2 rears to upgrade. If I go the R1 for the surrounds what about the rears? Leave them Onkyo?

Also those that are doing this. How are you getting rid of your old stuff? I have 2 fronts and a center and we are having a garage sale this weekend but I'm scared to split the set up vs selling in all as a HTIB package.

use craigslist and/or ebay. i got more for my onkyo 780 by selling it in pieces than i paid for it. of course, it took some time and wading through the lame scam attempts, but it all worked out in the end. i sold the receiver ($250), a 5.0 speaker package ($125), the sub ($110), and a pair of surrounds ($35) over the course of about 2 months.

for the replacements, i'd stick with athena if that's what you're using up front. the R1's would be nice. if you're looking for 4 new surrouds to have 7.1, and economical choice might be to buy the point 5 MK II set, sell the center, and make about 25% back.

Ron,

Are you talking about these?
http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=DMATHASR1.2

Do you know what they mean by DEMO?

I've got 2 surrounds and 2 rears to upgrade. If I go the R1 for the surrounds what about the rears? Leave them Onkyo?The R1s aren't really a budget choice though $106/spk is fairly cheap. I'd use them as surrounds and backs...if you can't find any point 5s.

I emailed SVSOUND about their black sub and they offered me 10% off the PB12-NSD or 10% off on the other colored SVS PB10 subs if I didn't want to wait till June when they began shipping the black model again.

Very Nice of them:) While I would love to for the $111 difference now I don't think I should go that extra step with a kid on the way.

My basement is painted red and most of my equipment and furniture are black.

This is what I have.

Black Couches
Black Furniture
Black Receiver
And our course when upgraded to the Harmon Kardon it'll be silver.
Black Dish Reciever
Black Speakers (Athena have a little silver on them)
Silver DVD Player


Would it look that bad to have a silver sub which will be in the corner anyways?

What do you think..to save $43.00?

I emailed SVSOUND about their black sub and they offered me 10% off the PB12-NSD or 10% off on the other colored SVS PB10 subs if I didn't want to wait till June when they began shipping the black model again.

Very Nice of them:) While I would love to for the $111 difference now I don't think I should go that extra step with a kid on the way.

My basement is painted red and most of my equipment and furniture are black.

This is what I have.

Black Couches
Black Furniture
Black Receiver
And our course when upgraded to the Harmon Kardon it'll be silver.
Black Dish Reciever
Black Speakers (Athena have a little silver on them)
Silver DVD Player


Would it look that bad to have a silver sub which will be in the corner anyways?

What do you think..to save $43.00?See if they'll give you the discount on the "black" 25-31PC/NSD. You'll be amazed by the output and if it's going into a corner anyway (with a plant in front maybe)... Congrats on the little rlu and you'd better hurry...cause your life will soon be over for the next 25 years. ;)

It's decision time... I can either buy the point 5 system for $200 and have 4 speakers for surround... Or I can get 2 R1s for now as my side surrounds and live with the rears for now.

I really haven't heard too much about those R1s. Does anyone have experience with them. Are they a big step up from the point 5s?

Congrats on the new addition rlu929s! My wife and I are going to start trying to get pregnant next month. I guess I'm in the same boat of trying to get some new toys while I can. After I get these speakers replaced and a new receiver, I'm done. (and must force myself to stay away from this forum)

The R1s are bi-poles, designed for HT for their diffuse sound field. They should be superior. Use them in a 5.1 config. Unless you have the room a 5.1 setup will sound as good or better than 7.1.

rlu...Demo probably means just what it says, "open box".

Ron,
LOL don't tell me that...I've already taken the hard hit that my plans to get a bigger TV are out for awhile. I have a 42" plasma now but was really hoping to upgrade to a 65". Oh..well I guess it'll allow time for the price to come down and the sets to get even bigger:)

I'm thinking of going with the silver SVS PB10 as I want to keep this as cheap as possible. Especially since I still need the receiver and other speakers.

To me the Onkyo sounds pretty good so I can imagine the lower end SVS should do fine.

I'll keep you updated.

Also on to the R1's........If I get the new HK 435 I'll want to make use of the 7.1 and I do have room. Your saying I should probably get 4 R1's or would 2 R1's and use the onkyo's backs be ok?

Couple things that turn me off the R1's.
1.The color...I would like black surrounds.
2. They state that they are for wall mounting and I need speakers that go with stands well.

If those are out any suggetions for surrounds that are better than the onkyo's?

Chancellor: Where are your finding the deal on the .5's?

rlu929s - I saw the $200 deal on onecall.com. I haven't used them before, but they have been recommended to me in the past.

It looks like I'm going to order the R1s for side surrounds... but I haven't decided on what to do for the rears.

Ron - You mentioned that the B1s are rear ported. I would be able to put them in some bookshelves on my rear wall but they wouldn't have too much clearance behind them... Should I give up on that idea and consider 1 or 2 R1s for the rear?

Well another down:)

Been watching ebay and picked up the HK 435 Z for around $380. Much better than their site and it's still come with the original warranty.

Well another down:)

Been watching ebay and picked up the HK 435 Z for around $380. Much better than their site and it's still come with the original warranty.Ok...I'll trade you straight across for my 235 and 2 channel amp... ;) Great price.

I remember 516 complaining about the rear port on the B1s, but I looked at the Athena site and no mention was made, so stands or bookshelves with some clearance won't effect the SQ, I would think. If you're going to go 7.1 then I would use the R1s as surrounds and B1s as rears.

rlu...any SVS sub is in another dimension than the Onkyo sub...the PB10 is superb, the bigger subs just get better. Until you get to around a grand, then smaller form factor sealed subs have features and SQ that compete or maybe exceed...not output though :D . I doubt if you will notice the color after you hear what the sub does for your system.

Thx for the input Ron..I'll try to go that route if possible. The wife factor vetoed the different color sub so it looks like I'm waiting for the black:)

I wonder if the B1's would be too big in my setup...Give me a sec and I'll edit some pics in.

rlu...any SVS sub is in another dimension than the Onkyo sub...the PB10 is superb, the bigger subs just get better.

as usual, ron speaks the truth. there is no comparing the onkyo sub to a PB-10...another league entirely. it was the best investment i made along my onkyo 780 upgrade path.

Well I'm going to go ahead and put my order in for the black PB-10 and hope it's quicker than mid June:)

Then all that leaves are the surrounds and rears:)

And I'm done for a long time.


UPDATE: Just ordered the SUB:)

My R1.2s arrived on Friday from Onecall.com. So far, they're great. I was a little wary of their weight, but once I found some good drywall anchors I felt much more comfortable.

The only part of my system that I have yet to replace are the rear surrounds... I'm going to do a little more research on the B1.2s and see if there would be enough room behind them on the bookcases (because they are rear ported). I'll probably post in the Athena thread and try to email Athena directly.

I bought the HK 435 on ebay last week. Mine ended up around $375, but after taxes and shipping, it was more like $440... still, a great deal.

I want to thank everyone who recommended audioadvisor.com, onecall.com, and HK Direct on ebay. I'm still trying to figure out if this forum helped me save money or if it cost me money. Either way, I'm extremly happy with all my new purchases.... and eagerly awaiting the shipment of that HK 435.

chancellormark: Are the R1.2's in fact silver? That was a concern of mine. I wanted my set to match. The front athena's looked good because there was just a little silver but the wood was black. According to the pic this speaker is all silver. I held off on the Sub because I couldn't get it in black so I would hate to get these silver. I'm nearing completion of my upgrade as well and will have to stay away from the forum for awhile:) My HK435 is supposed to arrive tomorrow from HK Direct on eBay. I'll let you know my thoughts on it once it's hooked up. Oh and did you get your R1.2's from onecall because AA says it's a demo?

To All: Are there anything comparable to the R1.2's or that would be good surrounds that are black? The same price range would be best.

rlu929s - the R1s are entirely silver, however, there is a black grill that wraps around covers the entire front (only the top and bottom are exposed.) If the silver on the front of the B1 doesn't bother you, then you'll like the Rs (Just mount it high enough that you wont see the top/bottom).

I did not want the Demos either, so I ordered from Onecall... there was not too much of a price difference and free shipping.

I have my current surround on stands and that's pretty much my only option. Do you think the r1.2's will be ok for stands?

If you put the Rs on stands, you'll definitely see silver on the tops.

I think that somewhere in the manual, it said to hang them at a height of 6 ft. I'm not sure if that's because of the design of the speaker or just a recommendation. If I were you, I'd post the question in the Athena owners thread.

I'm fortunate enough to have walls of equal distances to the left and right of my seated position... it's perfect for the R1s. My rear wall is causing me trouble. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably get B1s for surrounds.

I'll probably just do that then. I noticed in threads in the speaker area their saying if you sit up against your back wall. (which I do) then you should stay with a 5.1 setup vs going 7.1. I might just do that and get the B1.2's as surrounds.



UPDATE: Went ahead and got another pair of B 1.2's from AA. We'll use those as surrounds.

So are the B1.2's that much better than the R1's for surround speakers?

From what I gather I guess it depends on your setup. From what I've read the B1.2's will have more base element to them.

Some argue that surrounds are supposed to be an afterthought and not as powerful as the fronts etc.

In my case they will work best since I'm backed up against a wall and can't really hang them.

The R1.2's aren't designed for stands and as Chancellor said:

I think that somewhere in the manual, it said to hang them at a height of 6 ft.

I can let you know once I have the full system going how it sounds. My HK 435 is waiting on my doorstep at home so I'll be switching out my Onkyo with that when I get home.

that's cool. Let me know...I just won an H/K 635 on Ebay for $450!!! GO ME!!!

I don't recall seeing too much about the R1.2s compared to the B1.2s... It probably has something to do with the price points... You can get two Bs for the cost of one R. If the Bs could have been wall mounted for my surrounds, I'd have bought them in a second.

I've been listening to my Rs since last Friday and I'm very happy. For my room, they were a perfect match.

rlu929s - you'll see the largest improvement when you get that PB10... I got my speakers first too and had to wait for the sub. It is definitely the most impressive element to my home theater...even though the plasma cost thousands more. After your sub arrives, immediately go buy War of the Worlds... The first time I watched it downstairs, my wife thought the world was ending.

My HK 435 will arrive Thursday... the wait is killing me.

Generally bi and dipole speakers are recommended for surround duty for HT. While monopoles are recommended for multichannel music. The bipoles offer a more diffuse soundfield and many find that it's more immersive. Just what I've read, I've got traditional bookshelves in a 5.1. :p

I got my 435 working finally. Chancellor: There's a power button behind the panel. The one on the front is just the standby button. I thought I had a unit that wouldn't power up for a sec there. I've got War of the Worlds so I'll give that a try as soon as I get the sub:)

I have a question for those that have it. This may be better taken to the receiver area.


I've connected all 6 speakers that I have. (Don't have a 7th yet) and I try the test and a 6.1 custom intro I have and it's not even registering the 6th rear speaker. I've messed with the setting and set the SurrBack to Small and Large and that doesn't help. The surrounds are still doing the rear work for some reason....Ist it because I'm trying 6.1 on a 7.1 unit.

I even did the EZ Setup EQ and that only registers 5. The backs not outputting the tone.

Any suggestions.......

Were you able to test the comparisons between the R1 vs. B1?

I haven't received my other set of b1.2's yet. Hopefully be the end of the week.

That's cool. Hell my house hasn't even broken ground yet but I want to get a head start on getting what I might need for a 20x14x10ft ceiling room. I think I've decided on going with the Athena setup, but I don't know what to do for a sub/surrounds...

and I'll probably end up sitting near the back of the room too...

Sub: Go SVS all the way:)

I probably will...my budget's a lot tighter than most though. I'd like to have money left over to buy some decent seating...being able to get things at cost really comes in handy...

RLU929S - Does the HK 435 come with a tripod for the microphone? I was reading in one of the HK discussions where they recommend to use a tripod when doing the EQ on the system. Mine arrives today and I can pick up a tripod on the way home from work.

No it doesn't come with a tripod....I just held it up and it seemed to work fine. It sounds great! However at first I thought I had a dud because it has a main power botton in the fold down panel.

Also I could only get 5 of the 7 speakers to work and I called HK support and it turns out I had to change it to Logic 7.1 mode. In that mode it'll still change over to DTS etc and then all 7 speakers work.

I'm finding it much more confusing to setup and get the hang of than my Onkyo reciever. Let me know how you do?

The HKs are very tweakable and once you get used to the fact that you must calibrate for each surround mode (and re-EQ), you're going to be much happier with the bass management options and sound fields. Plus they have more guts, and better SQ. You'll be up to speed in no time.

So for instance I put it in logic 7 and that works fine with all 7 speakers. I then put it in DTS mode and only 5 speakers work so that's just normal and I should EQ all those surround settings?

I'm not running in 7.1, but I believe the DD.EX and DTS.ES will give you 7.1 as well or DD/DTS + L7. Also, not sure on the EQ, just assuming. I do know that for each surround mode you must calibrate. Check your OSD and go through the modes, DPLII, DD, DTS Neo, L7, DTS, Stereo...calibrate each, there will be slight variances between each mode. Otherwise, you will switch modes and get a big surprise when all your channel trims default back to zero for the uncalibrated mode.

Hello everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster!

I purchased the Onkyo HT-S790 from Circuit City 5 days ago but it is still in the box because I don't move into my new home till June 10th.

I've read this entire thread and am wondering if I am going about this all wrong based on recent events that require some explanation...though you'll probably enjoy it at my expense.

Here's the story...

I just bought an HK AVR-335 for the cost of a AVR-635 2 days ago! Why? Because I broke one of my brother's "Component In's" on his Plasma display when I attempted to setup his system in his new home. You see, we lived together until this Sunday and we always used his HK system at our house. We had to sell because I'm getting married and when he moved out I made the mistake of offering to set everything up for him at his new place. How did I break it? Well let's just say that those Monster cables really grab on tight.. :o

He needed the extra component in on his TV because the HK 335 only has 2 component in's and he had 3 devices, DVD player, XBOX 360, Cable. To make it up to him I bought him a refurb. HK 635 online for $500.00 plus shippping. He'll now have enough Component In's on the receiver to make it all work. It was an expensive fix but it was worth it just to keep the peace!

In any case, I now "own" the HK 335 and the Onkyo S790 system and am wondering what to do. I'm thinking I should just return the Onkyo system and go with what you all have done using the HK AVR-335 as my receiver.

So... my potential set-up:

Receiver: HK AVR-335
Front: Athena B1.2's (2)
Center: Athena C1.2
Surround: Athena .5's (4)
Sub: SVS PB-10

This will all go in a room that is 13' X 16'

What do you all think?

What do you think...much better SQ...fuller, more detailed and great bass. But it's your money.

Those point 5s are getting very tricky to find... and caused me to change my original plan and order the R1.2s.

Right now, you're able to find the MKII sytem online for decent prices (contains 4 s.5's and 1 c.5). You'll have an extra center channel, but the price is right.

I've had the Onkyo system and I've upgraded to pretty close what you listed... now, I can't watch a movie without smiling until my face hurts.

My main concern is with the AVR-335.

The specs seem fine, but...it is a receiver that is included with the CP-35 Home Theatre System. So, I am unsure if it is as good a performer as the Harman Kardon stand-alone's like the 240, 340, 435, or 635.

It appears that it's closest equivalent is the AVR-340. Do any of you know if I'm on the right track here?

I found the MKII sytem on Amazon for $198.88. I'll buy it if I decide to go for it unless you guys know where to get it cheaper.

By the way, You guys have been a terrible influence on me already!

there's a new one on ebay with 20 minutes left for $66... plus $30 shipping.

10 minutes... (I don't even need it and I'm considering bidding)

OK....I'm going to try to get it. If I miss it I'll pick it up on Amazon. No matter what I decide with the receiver I want those speakers.

There were about 7 bids in the last 3 minutes... it ended up at $89 plus shipping. Still, a darn good deal.

My main concern is with the AVR-335.

The specs seem fine, but...it is a receiver that is included with the CP-35 Home Theatre System. So, I am unsure if it is as good a performer as the Harman Kardon stand-alone's like the 240, 340, 435, or 635.

It appears that it's closest equivalent is the AVR-340. Do any of you know if I'm on the right track here?Same receiver as the stand alone units...2004-5 version of the 340. Great receiver, an input or two more than the 235/40, 5 more watts, Zone 2, A-Bus w/remote. What's not to like (since you already have it).

Amazon here I come!

I was looking at the reviews of the C.5 that comes with the 4 S.5's and it looks pretty good for a small room. Am I wasting my time giving it a try before I go out and buy the c1.2?

Same receiver as the stand alone units...2004-5 version of the 340. Great receiver, an input or two more than the 235/40, 5 more watts, Zone 2, A-Bus w/remote. What's not to like (since you already have it).

Thanks! I'll keep the AVR 335 then! I'll be going back to Circuit City tonight to return the Onkyo.

I just bought the "Point 5 MKII" pack from Amazon so I'm slowly getting there.

So far:

Receiver: Harman/Kardon AVR-335
Surround: Athena S.5 (4)
Center: Athena C.5 (1) (might switch with C1.2)

Still need:
Front (L,R) : Athena B1.2 (2)
Sub: Still deciding (SVS PB-10?)

Would the PB-10 overwhelm the Athena C.5?

Most of your sound comes from the Fronts and Center speaker. The Center is responsible for dialog and, therefore, very important.

Whether you go for the .5s or B1.2s and C1.2, you'll be happy with your choice...

Most of your sound comes from the Fronts and Center speaker. The Center is responsible for dialog and, therefore, very important.

Whether you go for the .5s or B1.2s and C1.2, you'll be happy with your choice...

Ok...let me see if understand this then. What you'rs saying is that if I go with the C 1.2 I should also get the 1.2 L&R but if I go with the C.5 I should stick with the 4 S.5's for the L,R and Surround? If that's true I'll need to dig up 2 more S.5's somewhere.

Anyone know how this would impact my choice of Subs?

The sub can be balanced with either choice of speaker. Even so, you're going to be happier with the Audition Series LCR crossed at 80hz than you would be with the .5s crossed at 80 or 100. It will be a much richer more detailed soundstage. Another even so...the sub will be your favorite piece of this system either way you go...that's why it costs more :D .

Thanks! I'll keep the AVR 335 then! I'll be going back to Circuit City tonight to return the Onkyo.

I just bought the "Point 5 MKII" pack from Amazon so I'm slowly getting there.

So far:

Receiver: Harman/Kardon AVR-335
Surround: Athena S.5 (4)
Center: Athena C.5 (1) (might switch with C1.2)

Still need:
Front (L,R) : Athena B1.2 (2)
Sub: Still deciding (SVS PB-10?)

Would the PB-10 overwhelm the Athena C.5?

Not if you calibrate it correctly, I have my Point 5 set running with my 15" DIY sub, so you should be fine.

I received my second set of B1.2's that I'm using for surrounds. It sounds pretty good.

Maybe because they are so close but it almost sounds like I hear the backs louder than the center during the movie. I proably have more tweaking to do.

I think I'm just going to leave the rears as the Onkyo speakers. I haven't totally decided if I'm even going to keep them. I might revert back to 5.1 when I do a comparison in my setup.

I will probably try to take some pics of my setup and get them posted so you guys can give me your opinion.

I'm still eagerly awaiting my SVS PB10. Should start shipping soon I hope.

I received my second set of B1.2's that I'm using for surrounds. It sounds pretty good.

Maybe because they are so close but it almost sounds like I hear the backs louder than the center during the movie. I proably have more tweaking to do.

I think I'm just going to leave the rears as the Onkyo speakers. I haven't totally decided if I'm even going to keep them. I might revert back to 5.1 when I do a comparison in my setup.

I will probably try to take some pics of my setup and get them posted so you guys can give me your opinion.

I'm still eagerly awaiting my SVS PB10. Should start shipping soon I hope.

Use a SPL meter for calibration. It makes a big difference. Also make sure that the back surrounds aren't directly behind you. They should be slightly outside of the seating area:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

rlu929s - Have you run the autoEQ on your HK 435? Those surrounds should not be overpowering your fronts. If you ran the AutoEQ when you had your Onkyos attached and use the same settings for the Athenas, it would be much louder now.

Maybe check out the Manual EQ and see what your rears are set at.

Dark Rain is right; pick up an SPL meter and try to calibrate.

rlu929s - Have you run the autoEQ on your HK 435? Those surrounds should not be overpowering your fronts. If you ran the AutoEQ when you had your Onkyos attached and use the same settings for the Athenas, it would be much louder now.

Maybe check out the Manual EQ and see what your rears are set at.

Dark Rain is right; pick up an SPL meter and try to calibrate.


the autoEQ on the H/K is nice, but not as precise as using an SPL meter...i think its worth the small cost to get the system you spent a lot of $$ on calibrated correctly.

using a meter with the Avia disc is even better, as it allows you to not only balance the speakers, but test the phase of the sub and do things like frequency sweeps from 200 - 20Hz.

I'll give it a shot.

Chancellor: This may not be an issue but one thing that annoys me is the OSD menu that you are required to hook up a S-Video connectioin to some TV to view. I do have on on my plasma luckily but it's pain in the but to unhook from the dish receiver and pull everything out. I hope we don't have to change this often since we have to calibrate for every surround setting:(

I just ordered the SVS PB-10. Considering the rave reviews you have all given it, the SVS seems like an awfully good deal at $429.00 + shipping!

I suspect that I wont wait till I move in to my new home on June 10th to start testing components.

I'll give it a shot.

Chancellor: This may not be an issue but one thing that annoys me is the OSD menu that you are required to hook up a S-Video connectioin to some TV to view. I do have on on my plasma luckily but it's pain in the but to unhook from the dish receiver and pull everything out. I hope we don't have to change this often since we have to calibrate for every surround setting:(

I'm not sure I'm getting it. Just leave the S-Video out on the receiver connected to a spare Video in on the TV. Why get the dish involved at all. My OSD is always on and available by switching Video inputs or PIP.

rlu929s - I'm not sure about what you are saying on the S-Video.

In order to do the OSD on my setup: I have a yellow video cable from the back of the receiver to the TV. I press the TV/Video button on the remote and choose Video 1. Then when I press the OSD button on the receiver remote, it pops up on the screen.

You can always buy just the yellow video cable and hook it directly from your receiver to your TV on one of your composite connections.

I wasnt' aware you could use the yellow video cable. I have tons of those lying around from my various upgrades. I guess it boils down to my lack of TV inputs.

I have 3 inputs on my TV 1 component for my DVD....1 VGA for which I have VGA to Component. and 1 card with S Vid and Composite combined. You can only have one or the other hooked up. Right now I have the dish running through the S vid. So I was saying I had to unhook the S vid and hook it to to the onkyo in order to see the OSD.

Maybe I'll just run a yellow video cable and switch them when needed.


On a good note: I received word that MY SVS PB10 black sub is in and they are shipping again so My sub will go out Tuesday:) They are also saying they are changing some things for a new model coming out so all of the that ordered will get a $50.00 discount on the current PB10 ISD model.

I'm not sure if you order know if you get the same discount or not.

I'm siked...I'll post back when I receive it and get it hooked up.

rlu...

you should have at least 3 component inputs on the 435. Run each source into the 435 and component monitor out to the TV. Connect s-video out(OSD) to S video input on the TV...viola.

If the satbox has no component out you can still use the receiver to switch. Does the 435 transcode? If so, then you won't need to switch the s-video out.

I"ve always heard running your video through a receiver cuts down the quality of the video? It makes sense since it's got longer to travel. That's why I chose to run it straight to the TV.

I"ve always heard running your video through a receiver cuts down the quality of the video? It makes sense since it's got longer to travel. That's why I chose to run it straight to the TV.

I think it depends on the receiver and cables being used. The cables should be of the same quality. Going directly to the TV is the best option unless you really need video switching options.

The 435 has video pass (mhz) and the Faroudja chip (I think...doesn't it) with superior abilities than my 235 and I pass everything through, 2 component ins, 1 out, S-video in and out. I only have one component input on my Sony Wega XBR (2000 model). No loss or degradation. Using Monster and Comcast component cables. The Comcast cables (free) are fine.

Well my SV PB10 would have been at my house yesterday but the UPS guy didn't leave it because it requires a signature. That annoys the crap out of me.

What's a 8-5 working man supposed to do. I guess that's a pet peeve I have with anything LOL. Seems like they are always giving timeframes.

Well I'm going home on my lunch to hopefully catch him and if not then I'll leave a note on the door with my sig. Hopefully that'll be enough.

I'm anxious to hear my new sub.

I have the sub now and it's awesome.

What do you guys have yours set at in back? The phase etc.

I put in War Of The Worlds with the lighting scene and it sounded pretty cool:)

Any tips for the sub.

rlu929s - from what I've been told, the phase based upon your room and speaker locations. Each person will have different phase.

Now, make sure to get that SPL meter and calibrate your speakers and sub.

If your sub is in the front of your soundstage, phase should be 0. If not, you'll need to experiment with the phase and the SPL meter to find where the bass is loudest in your preferred position. Of course, then you're going to want the flattest response which will mean moving the sub around and doing FR charts...or you can be like me, hide it in the corner because it works best hidden in my room. :D

Got a problem....tonight I put in a movie and noticed my sub isn't working. I turned it up full blast and I'm getting nothing.


It's getting a signal because I can hear a very light rumble and a little rattle inside the sub with test tones going.

I'm afraid I might have been sent a dud.

I've emailed SVS and will call them Monday but I thought I'd see what you guys thought?

I've emailed SVS and they think it's a damaged woofer. They are going to attempt and send me another one in 3 days so we'll see. They sent some instructions on how to remove it. it's actually pretty simple and I got to see inside the sub which is cool.

The recommendations on this thread seem to be about in my budget, and I really, really, hate to start another "what should I buy thread", so I figured I'd hijack this thread.

I have what is basically a 10 by 10 by 10 office, I work from home. Two walls (front and right), and behind is a window which takes up much of the wall, and to the left is a pair of french doors.

I will mainly listen to music, although I do have an xbox 360 and a cable box setup which I use from time to time. That said I don't think surround sound is the way to go at this point.

So what I figure I'm looking at is getting a pair or speakers, a subwoofer (don't need anything earth shaking), and a receiver.

I'd like to spend in the area of $500 to $700 (not a hard figure but I don't want to get carried away).

I could go with a pair of B1.2's (seems like that would run me around 350-400$), which wouldn't leave a whole lot left for the sub and receiver. If I went with something like the Daytona Sub 100 (or 120) would run me another about $150 or so.

For some reason the Panasonic XR series (particularly the 57) seems to attract me, but it's a budget blowing $300+, and i don't really need the HDMI or anything like that, so something smaller that can focus more on the audio end would probably work best for me.

The other thing I keep thinking is perhaps a more frugal route would be to get a very nice and comfortable set of headphones (bad experiences of wearing headphones all day and having sore ears is what's been keeping me from going this route before, but i've never used a very nice set of headphones for long periods).

Any help/suggestions/advice are greatly appreciated.

PS - I'm obviously not an audiophile, nor do I really want to get sucked in, I just want something that's going to sound nicer then a set of PC based speakers, and have an upgrade path to surround sound should I ever want to go that route.

So what I figure I'm looking at is getting a pair or speakers, a subwoofer (don't need anything earth shaking), and a receier.

I could go with a pair of B1.2's (seems like that would run me around 350-400$), which wouldn't leave a whole lot left for the sub and receiver.

whoa, a pair of B1.2's can be had from audioadviosor for $119. the $400/pr price sounds more like the going rate of a pair of F2's, which are full-range, floorstanding speakers. if you're listening to mostly music, you could get away with these and no sub.

if you're going the B1.2 route, grab yourself a nice entry level receiver like the onkyo 503/504. you can find a refurbished 503 for under $200 if you look around. this will have plenty of power for your size room, and has a good bit of connectivity to allow you to add components or get more into HT if you wish.

that leaves about $150 - $400 for the sub, and there are tons of choices there. i'd recommend something other than the dayton if you're main interest is music. maybe a smaller velodyne, mirage, HSU, or even on of the athena subs.

whoa, a pair of B1.2's can be had from audioadviosor for $119. the $400/pr price sounds more like the going rate of a pair of F2's, which are full-range, floorstanding speakers. if you're listening to mostly music, you could get away with these and no sub.

if you're going the B1.2 route, grab yourself a nice entry level receiver like the onkyo 503/504. you can find a refurbished 503 for under $200 if you look around. this will have plenty of power for your size room, and has a good bit of connectivity to allow you to add components or get more into HT if you wish.

that leaves about $150 - $400 for the sub, and there are tons of choices there. i'd recommend something other than the dayton if you're main interest is music. maybe a smaller velodyne, mirage, HSU, or even on of the athena subs.

You're right I was looking at onecall and didn't realize that it was a PAIR of headphones for $180, silly me.

if you're going the B1.2 route, grab yourself a nice entry level receiver like the onkyo 503/504. you can find a refurbished 503 for under $200 if you look around. this will have plenty of power for your size room, and has a good bit of connectivity to allow you to add components or get more into HT if you wish.

I'm looking at the 537 as it has more then one component input, which will be useful, but they seem very similar to the 504 other then that, is that a fair assesment?


that leaves about $150 - $400 for the sub, and there are tons of choices there. i'd recommend something other than the dayton if you're main interest is music. maybe a smaller velodyne, mirage, HSU, or even on of the athena subs.

Any particular recommendations, again, don't need booming base, but would like something reasonable.

I'm looking at the 537 as it has more then one component input, which will be useful, but they seem very similar to the 504 other then that, is that a fair assesment?




Any particular recommendations, again, don't need booming base, but would like something reasonable.

i think you're referring to the 573, which as far as i know is comparable to the 503 but has XM capability. its really a toss up, IMO. they're pretty comparable in terms of connectivity and power.

i'd recommend spending as much as you can on the sub. the difference btwn a $150 sub and a $450 is substantial, you'll instantly know where your money went when you crank up a good action movie. HSU and SVS would be at the top of my list for the $400 sub class. i own and SVS PB-10, and it still amazes me after 6 months. a good compromise would be the acoustech H-100 for about $300, if you can't afford to spend $450 on a sub. hope this helps.

Ok, SVS sent me an amp and woofer and I replaced both and now the sub is working great. My questions is this though. I have the phase all the way down and the gain half way as some suggested.

When I did the EZsetup on my H/K it set ALL my speaker at +10 DB except for the sub which it set at +4DB.

Is that right? That seems a little much to me.

It sounds great with the volume at -35DB.

Run the EZ setup again and start it at a higher volume. If the manual says -15, try -10 instead or even -7.

The manual says to run it at -35 DB so I'll try it at -30 or -27 or so and see what happens.

The manual says to run it at -35 DB so I'll try it at -30 or -27 or so and see what happens.

You should really get a SPL meter for better accuracy. The gain control on the sub should be set to 1/4 to 1/3 at first. You should set the sub volume on the AVR to -5 and then adjust it when running the test tone. My SVS PB10 is set at about 1/3 on the gain control and around -7 (varies slighty depending on surround mode) in the HK 235 AVR after calibration using an SPL meter. Phase on the sub is at 180 degees since it's located near the back seating area. Bass is deep, clean, balanced, and room shaking. :D

Right now I have the Phase at 0 because our sub is in the left front corner of the listening area.

I'll get some pics up to help visualize soon.

I'll go pick up a SPL at Radio Shack on my break then................question is this....how does one use a SPL Meter to tune.

Does it have a display that says hey this is the correct level?

When I did the EZsetup on my H/K it set ALL my speaker at +10 DB except for the sub which it set at +4DB.

Is that right? That seems a little much to me.

It sounds great with the volume at -35DB.

that sounds way too high. ideally, you don't want any of the channels at or even close to +10dB, as you then have no "headroom" when one channel must be louder than another at certain sequences.

i've got an H/K 235, and the gain on my SVS PB-10 turned up to about 11:00, and i've calibrated it with an SPL meter. my L/C/R/SR/SL/sub settings are: -1/-4/0/+1/+2/-4. so at -10 on the master volume (MV), all channels are balanced to 75dB, which is 10dB below dolby reference (= 0 on the MV). i've found -20 to be comfortable, -15 to be loud, and -10 to be too much on the MV. the phase setting is dependent on where you place the sub. generally, if it is next to your main speakers, you should leave it at 0. if it is nearfield to the seating position, 180 will probably work better. the avia disc can help you set the phase setting correctly.

the auto setup feature is OK, but can do some strange things. the SPL meter is $20, and IMO worth it to get the gear many of us have spent a big chunk of change on operating the way it is supposed to. for me, there is no substitute for a properly calibrated system.

Ok I got the only sound level meter radio shack had which was $49:(

How do I use it?

Run the test tones?

Then what do I do with the numbers I get from it?

The sound meter I have has a range from 120 to 60 I can set it at. Depending on which one I have it on it gives different readings. The guide doesn't really explain how to use it.

This is what I have:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667&cp=&origkw=spl+meter&kw=spl+meter&parentPage=search

Ok I got the only sound level meter radio shack had which was $49:(

How do I use it?

Run the test tones?

Then what do I do with the numbers I get from it?

The sound meter I have has a range from 120 to 60 I can set it at. Depending on which one I have it on it gives different readings. The guide doesn't really explain how to use it.

This is what I have:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667&cp=&origkw=spl+meter&kw=spl+meter&parentPage=search


yikes. the analog meter is much cheaper, but i don't know how easy that is to get these days. :confused:

set the meter to 70 and C-weighting (slow). then set the master volume to -10 and run the test tones. adjust the volume of each individual channel until you get a reading of 75dB on the meter. you should be sitting in your primary listening position while you do this, and you should not adjust the master volume at any time during the calibration.

the sub is a little tougher. set the gain on the back to about 1/3 of the way up, and adjust the sub trim on the receiver until you get a reading of about 78dB...this corrects for the meter's inaccuracies at low frequencies. some people like to run it a little "hotter" for more of an impact, but that is personal preference. good luck.

Yeah they had an analog one that was 45 and the digital readout that was 49. For 4 dollars I'll digital.

I'll give that a shot...that makes more sense now. Thanks!

I'm assuming I have to do this for each surround mode.

Does that mean for each DTS mode and other modes.

Of if I do it for one DTS does it set them all?

I'll probably figure that one out I suppose.

Thx for the help!


Ok, I've ran the SPL and I did what you said. At -10 DB MV I got most of the speakers down to 75db but I had to set the HK at about -10DB which is the lowest it would go for most of my speakers.

Does that just mean my speakers are too close. I have a limited area so that could be true.

The sub though even at 1/3 gain and the receiver db at -10 it was still registering above 80.

UPDATE:

I just received my SVS PB-10 yesterday! It took forever to ship because I'd asked for a silver one. After waiting a while I got frustrated and changed it to black.

What I settled on for my initial configuration:

TV - Sharp 56DR650 (DLP) (arrives this Thursday)
Receiver : HK AVR-240 (I'm going to sell the 335 on Ebay soon)
LR - Athena .5s
C - Athena C.5
Su - Athena .5
Sub - SVS PB-10

I'll be setting up my new system this weekend. I'll pick up an SPL meter today in preparation! It will be a 5.1 system for now. I can't wait to try it out!

I hope the .5's don't underwhelm me.

I hope the .5's don't underwhelm me.

cross them over at 100Hz and carefully calibrate the speakers/sub. you should be pleased. ;)

rlu929s - I've been tinkering with the EZ set on my HK 435. Here's what I've been doing:

farfield - hold mic at ear level pointing straight up (instead of 3 feet above).

nearfield - hold mic 6 inches from each speaker directly between woofer and tweeter (instead of 4 feet away) The levels are balanced very well and my sub sounds even better.

UPDATE:

I just received my SVS PB-10 yesterday! It took forever to ship because I'd asked for a silver one. After waiting a while I got frustrated and changed it to black.

What I settled on for my initial configuration:

TV - Sharp 56DR650 (DLP) (arrives this Thursday)
Receiver : HK AVR-240 (I'm going to sell the 335 on Ebay soon)
LR - Athena .5s
C - Athena C.5
Su - Athena .5
Sub - SVS PB-10

I'll be setting up my new system this weekend. I'll pick up an SPL meter today in preparation! It will be a 5.1 system for now. I can't wait to try it out!

I hope the .5's don't underwhelm me.
Rich,

How does the system sound? wanted to see how you made out.

szett:

I love my new system! My room is small enough that the .5's get the job done with ease. The real jewel of this setup is my SVS sub, however. It, literally, makes this system go, go , go!

I'll go into phase 2 when I buy my new home in the Spring. I'm currently on a one year lease while I shop around. Every place I've lookked at so far has a much bigger AV area, pretty much in line with what most of you have. So I'll be looking at 1.2's by then (and hopefully 7.1).

All that's left for now is to learn how to use my SPL meter to get my system really humming!

Thanks to all of you for your help! You've saved me a lot of money and given me a system that I really enjoy.

I'm hooked!

I recently upgraded the LCR on my 790 system to Athena B.1 and C.1. Made a appreciable difference in clarity of dialogue.

Roger

Hey everyone. I'm in the same boat with the Onkyo htib and wanted to share my dilemna.

Last year, our 10 year old Bose started making a bad high pitched noise whenever we turned it on ... so my parents decided to get an Onkyo s780. You know, for $500, it really is a pretty good deal for those who are not audioholics. Ironically, this htib deftly beat the bose system with much better sound, much better lfe action, ability to decode dts, tons of connections, etc. As others on the forum have said, just avoid Bose!!

I'm becoming something of an audiophile/videophile myself, much to the chagrin of the rest of my family. After having this Onkyo system for over a year, I definitely see its shortcomings. Music on it just sucks. Dialogue also sounds harsh, edgy, and muddy - if we're watching, rome/deadwood/master and commander/toy story, the dialogue sounds bad and my sister (who has language difficulties) needs subtitles to understand the dialogue. The list goes on, but let's just say that I'm craving upgradeitis for my Onkyo.

Here's my dilemna: I'm heading off to college this fall so I won't have access to any new speakers we might get. My dad (who loves music and whose sister was a sound editor for Phil Collins and The Who!) is just *fine* with the speakers we have. :eek:

BUT ... if I convinced my dad to get better speakers, would these choices be good?
Front LR: Athena B1.2
Surround: Athena B1.2
Back Surround: The Onkyo front speakers?
Center: Athena AS-C1.2
Subwoofer: HSU STF-2 or SVS PB-10

So, my questions ... 1) Since we're in the middle of a landscaping project ($$$$) would it be fine to just replace the center speaker or should we replace the entire FLC with the Athenas? 2) Should I just let my parents suffer with what they have and impatiently wait for 6 years to have my own house and money to make my own dream system? :rolleyes:

Anyways, sorry for the really long post. I'd be happy to hear your ideas to help solve my dilemna.

The athenas would be a MAJOR upgrade over the HTIB stock speakers. I would not just change the center though. This will probably make things worse than they are now when then sound moves from speaker to speaker it will take on a different tone. You need to keep at least the front three the same and preferably all.

I like the b1.2s up front but I would try to avoid using the onkyo speakers for back surrounds. If you check ebay you can still find the Athena Point5s in pairs and they are tonally matched to the b1.2s. They will be cheaper and then you can go with them for the surrounds and back surrounds. They are getting hard to find though but if you keep a search out, should be able to find some. Otherwise I'd just go for the b1.2s all the way and the c1.2 center.

Thanks for your help! Now to just convince my parents to upgrade ... wish me luck :D

i upgraded from an onkyo 780 to the athena B1/C1/S.5 combo with an SVS PB-10 sub. the performance advantages are enormous...great if you can swing it.

G-Star and myself were upgrading around the same time.

My setup is similar but I'm pretty happy with it.

I went this route.

Front: 2x B1.2
Center: 1x C1.2
Surround: 2XB1.2
Rear: 2x Old Onkyo Surrounds
Sub: SVS PB10
Receiver: HK 435? Number may be off...but it's the 400 model.

I'm very happy with the result. When I have it cranked you really get the movie surround effect.

Great! Thanks for the replies. I have a couple more questions about the Athenas.

1. Is there any place that auditions Athenas? If not, is there any kind of speaker I could audition that would have a similar style of sound (ie bright, flat, forward, etc).

2. I'm uploading a sketch of our space. It's a 20 X 20 squre foot space, a library with wood all around (though there are rugs and big sofas that absorb some reflections). Our viewing distance is about 8-10 feet from the TV and front speakers. The side surround and rear surround are about 10-12 feet from the viewing area. Would the Athenas do fine in our space and not be too underpowered especially compared to the Onkyos?

On an additional newcomer note, am I measuring distance to the viewing area correctly? For example, should the distance from the subwoofer be measured in a straight vertical line down to the viewing area, which would result in a much shorter distance, rather than a slanted line to the sofa?

Thanks again for your help!

Hmm. Any takers? Does anyone know a good audition place in the San Diego county area? And as a newcomer to the audio field, am I measuring speaker distance correctly? :)

You can't find Athenas in stores anymore, Best Buy stopped carrying them a while ago. You'll have to hope someone in your area has some and is willing to let you listen to them.

G-Star and myself were upgrading around the same time.

My setup is similar but I'm pretty happy with it.

I went this route.

Front: 2x B1.2
Center: 1x C1.2
Surround: 2XB1.2
Rear: 2x Old Onkyo Surrounds
Sub: SVS PB10
Receiver: HK 435? Number may be off...but it's the 400 model.

I'm very happy with the result. When I have it cranked you really get the movie surround effect.

I also have a similar setup, but got the Athena R1.2 for the surrounds and am using the Onkyo surrounds for the L&R back surrounds since they rarely get used. I got the HK 235 AVR and SVS PB10 sub. The difference in sound over the Onkyo HTIB is quite dramatic. The soundstage becomes wider and deeper with this setup. The bass is deep and clean, and the dialogue coming from the C1.2 center speaker is crisp and fuller sounding. It's also a warmer sound thanks to the HK 235, which uses an analog amp.

No disappointments here. :)

I really don't know of any B&M stores that have the athena's anymore but you won't be disappointed.

Thanks for your input guys. Since I only have the Onkyo speakers to refer to, my dad and I are going to pose as potential buyers at Best Buy, Tweeters, etc. and listen to different kinds of speakers. I'll bring the Elton John Live in Australia and Wish You Were Here CDs to test them out. Hopefully I'll find out what kind of speakers I like - I'll be sure to keep you all posted on what culminates.