Samsung LN-S4696D/LN-S4096D [Text View] - Page 13

mfogarty5

11-23-06, 01:36 PM

On the topic of firmware, I got this message from someone who I'll thank anonymously just in case that's how they prefer to stay. I can't vouch for any of it, but FWIW:

We run [ ] regional service centers and are authorized for both Samsung and Sony. ... The problem described with the PC input not mapping 1:1 is fixed with a new firmware upgrade for the Samung. The firmware update should be available on Samsung's support site by now. If not call the support number and have them send you a CD and the HDMI > 9 pin serial cable needed to do the upgrade from a PC.

Buzzy,

Samsung refers to the VGA port as the "PC input". I would like confirmation that the technician was referring to the HDMI port.

All,

The Samsungs all accept 1080p over HDMI. It doesn't matter whether its a PC/Set top box/gaming system. The issue with PCs is that the overscan on the HDMI port partially cuts of the start menu, etc. There are instructions on this thread that explain how to get nvidia graphics cards to change to another resolution(1880 x 1020 maybe?) which enables you to see the whole screen.

It's amazing what you can find if you take 2 minutes and do a search. :rolleyes:

macrosssdf1

11-23-06, 02:16 PM

Buzzy,

Samsung refers to the VGA port as the "PC input". I would like confirmation that the technician was referring to the HDMI port.

All,

The Samsungs all accept 1080p over HDMI. It doesn't matter whether its a PC/Set top box/gaming system. The issue with PCs is that the overscan on the HDMI port partially cuts of the start menu, etc. There are instructions on this thread that explain how to get nvidia graphics cards to change to another resolution(1880 x 1020 maybe?) which enables you to see the whole screen.

It's amazing what you can find if you take 2 minutes and do a search. :rolleyes:

Problem is with the drivers for the brand new geforce 8800gtx, the overscan option does not work. It shows me the nifty screen to resize, but it doesn't save the settings. Also, it doesn' partialy cut off the start menu button, you can't even see the start menu button at all. Missing approx 1" of your screen all around isn't acceptable at all. That's every desktop icon along the left edge, the start button, the clock and tray a the bottom etc. I tried useing powerstrip to adjust stuff, but heck, I couldn't even click the icon to start it up.

furboo

11-23-06, 02:33 PM

That would be huge news echoing back through all 100pages/ Year(!) of this thread (gee, maybe even the famous Cocteau might see it (this thread was being resold for a while in hardback form on campus under the title of "Le Tale de Cocteau" ;) )

Hope others will follow up about this firmware...
(actually it's hard to believe, probably just yet another false start on the 1:1 thing, there have been many...)

At least now we've heard a similar story from two different sources, neonsnow and buzzy. If it turns out true, even if you could care less about the overscan, it is nice to see Samsung responsive to complaints.

buzzy_

11-23-06, 08:55 PM

Buzzy,

Samsung refers to the VGA port as the "PC input". I would like confirmation that the technician was referring to the HDMI port.You know, I didn't give any thought to the cable comment. I had assumed it would use one of the "service ports" marked as such on the back of the panel, or the USB port on the 96 series. But there is a reference to the HDMI port.

And again, I don't know anything for sure ... it's just a comment someone sent to me that seemed plausible.

DanMacMan

11-24-06, 01:06 PM

I just want to confirm whether or not the 4095 displays the Xbox 360 VGA signal correctly.... This is the deciding factor as to if I buy the HD-DVD addon or not. Thanks.

Let me apologize if this has already been asked or mentioned. I am a noob here!
I have read others experiences with the VGA connection from the XBOX 360 and see some people having issues with the picture....count yourselves lucky. I get the message
"Signal Not Supported" with no picture at all!

I have tried all the resolution settings on my xbox - 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p

I have power cycled the display when I connect the xbox.

This is really frustrating as I purchased the HD-DVD player and VGA adapter to watch 1080p on this display. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Until then I guess I am stuck watching over component. Really sucks that M$ won't make a DVI /HDMI cable.

I know the display upconverts to 1080p anyway....but I would assume a straight 1080p signal would be better. Again any help would be greatly appreciated.

neonsnow

11-24-06, 01:54 PM

I just want to confirm whether or not the 4095 displays the Xbox 360 VGA signal correctly.... This is the deciding factor as to if I buy the HD-DVD addon or not. Thanks.

It works perfect for me both VGA(D-SUB) and Component input. even 1080p on component. Just one thing I disappointed is overscan-problem on Component. It looks like zoomed :(

ah. well. I have 4096 not 4095 btw.

rell323

11-24-06, 02:31 PM

Because you have VGA, could you confirm if your regular DVDs are upconverted. When I hit info, it says the DVD is in 720x480p through component. As for overscan, I'm seeing my full HUD and outline like GRAW with no problem. I think the previous GRAW overscan debacle was due to developers testing on PCs in stead of compensating for TV overscan. If I'm wrong correct me (nicely!). :) BTW, King Kong in HD looks amazing. Can't wait for Superman in HD glory! I really need the component cables for the Wii since it only comes with composite. BTW, 4695D if that helps.

It works perfect for me both VGA(D-SUB) and Component input. even 1080p on component. Just one thing I disappointed is overscan-problem on Component. It looks like zoomed :(

ah. well. I have 4096 not 4095 btw.

ittech

11-24-06, 02:49 PM

On the topic of firmware, I got this message from someone who I'll thank anonymously just in case that's how they prefer to stay. I can't vouch for any of it, but FWIW:

can this be confirmed?

I want a TV that does 1:1 over HDMI for PC/MCE use.

I want to be able to play BluRay/HDDVD through my Vista Media Center with no HDCP issues/analog VGA crap.

I'd go buy this TV right now if that were the case.

pixelswim

11-24-06, 06:25 PM

Can you explain to me the difference between a LNS4096D and a LNS4095D? I still cannot figure it out on Amazon Is it a cable card like you said? I use directtv and will always use satellite. Thanks in advance.

Tom

Tom, Here's a longer version of the differences that I wrote for a different thread a while back:

OK, here we go to the best of my recollection:
1) 96 has DCR (Digital Cable Ready) capability which comes from:
1a) 96 has a CableCard slot, and
1b) 96 has a QAM tuner (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation tuner),
[reasons people care about these: some cable providers charge less rent
for a card than a set top box (STB) and the card let's the cable company
put their little proprietary unscramble circuit in your machine and give you
access to premium channels you've agreed to pay for. The down side is that
current versions of the card (including sammy version) are not interactive
enough to do Video on Demand, interactive channel guides and other
interactive features. But, otoh, you don't have the big clunky box, you can
save money while waiting a while for HD DVRs that have BD/HDDVD burners
in them and last but not least you can use the TV remote vs. the STB one.
At least one person has mentioned that you can possibly use the QAM
tuner to view HDTV while a separate DVR records a different show. OK,
that's my little summary, see Wikipedia for more QAM info..]
2) 96 has a USB (Universal Serial Bus - used in PCs) port that can be used to pop
in your flash memory datakey etc and listen to music over your TV setup or
watch a slide show from your digital camera - that sort of stuff. It has also
been suggested that this might provide a more convenient port for tweeks
or firmware updates from Samsung although I know of no confirmation. Also
note that the USB port is only ver 1.1 but that should be good enough for
these uses.
3) 96 has a firewire port on the side: this might be useful to a few people who
have sprung for an expensive 1080p digicam (!) or a more regular camcorder
or a more obscure DAT (Digital Audio Tape) drive (or perhaps that new
Sony digital recorder that records to flash memory, has two high quality
mics and fits in the palm of your hand and sets you back a couple grand!)
4) 96 - it was reported that the RS232 port was dropped from the 96 - this
was supposedly used in the distant past to do some sort of mysterious
wiring together of your home audiovisual systems into some sort of serial
port circuit and if there is an electronics historian out there that can explain
this I'd like to hear about it!
5) The Cosmetic Differences: (this is the stuff that is not supposed to be
important but has been reported to create a strange hold over grown men,
causing them to disregard specs and to sometimes listen to their finance
committee)
5a) 95 has a metal styling strip along the bottom that reflects speaker sound
96 has a clear plastic or glass strip in the same place with same function
5b) 95 has a rectangular footprint base
96 has an oval footprint base

Myths caused by speculation in the threads when these models were not quite
out yet:
M1) For a while it was thought that the 95 had 1080p input over component but the 96 did not. This was due to spec misprints and later many confirmed that all models of the 95/96 family have 1080p input over component (as well as HDMI).
M2) For a while in the early days it was thought that 95 series was a limited edition being made by Samsung just for BB (Best Buy) but this was untrue.
M3) For a while it was thought that the 96 series was coming out later because it was going to have better video processing circuits but later I believe it was felt that the delay may have been due to delays in industry adoption of newer CableCard versions that Samsung wanted to include in the 96.

(Whew! my neck hurts, gotta get off the couch)
Best, pixelswim

tf4

11-24-06, 07:16 PM

magic carpet

11-25-06, 06:16 AM

Which are the available resolutions connecting a PC via DVI-HDMI?
Just 720p and 1080p?
Thanx!
M_C

pixelswim

11-25-06, 08:40 AM

pixelswim Thanks you are awesome!

I was just at Best Buy today. Now I am stuck between the Sony KDLV40v2500 or the Samsung. The picture on the sony was incredible but I am not a big Sony fan. I think they are both VERY close in stats and aside from price - To please the asthetics commitee in my house I am thinking of getting the nice piano black Samsung. Now that I saw the price from Frys I might just order it online. I plan on eventually doing HTPC but I think I will wait for a while and get a NVIDIA or ATI card with HDMI out so I don't think the banding will be an issue.

tf4,

There is a guy, I think his id is rconn2 who you could search on (in Advanced search there is a field for the id of the poster and a "radio button" on the left where you should select posts instead of threads) who knows a lot about the V2500 sony models. The V2500 models are serious contenders and should be considered by those of us researching the 96Ds, the xbr2/3s, the sharps and mitsus. My own process has led me more toward the 96D series but for me the idea of a media center feed is farther off. I also admit to being pretty sucked in by the good looks of the 96D series compared to anything else out there (the curved base and clear strip soften out the boxy funtional look that most of these sets exude when they are turned off.)

Regarding the piano black bezel - there was one guy on this forum who reported in to us after setting up his new sammy who said he was delighted to find that for him the shiny black just disappeared as soon as he turned the set on (ie. the light from the pictue was so much more significant, you just didn't notice any little glare spots from the bezel), it was not a factor - he had been worried a little that it might distract a little compared to the flat black bezel designs.

When you get to the point of researching your final NVIDIA and ATI candidates you should come back and do some searches here. There have been significant variations in the ease with which different video cards interface with a given panel. And of course I'm sure you are following the recent rumors of a new samsung firmware update that might (or might not - the reports are still wildly swinging around in my opinion) help in the hdmi 1:1 department.

wrt good fry's price, don't forget that you can pick your retailer based on who you think with give the best service and shipping and often have them price match whoever has the best price at the moment whether it happens to be frys, vanns, abt, datavis, bb, cc or whoever.

-- pixelswim

mhakman

11-25-06, 09:13 AM

Buzzy,
The Samsungs all accept 1080p over HDMI. It doesn't matter whether its a PC/Set top box/gaming system. The issue with PCs is that the overscan on the HDMI port partially cuts of the start menu, etc. There are instructions on this thread that explain how to get nvidia graphics cards to change to another resolution(1880 x 1020 maybe?) which enables you to see the whole screen.

It's amazing what you can find if you take 2 minutes and do a search. :rolleyes:
Also, using Powerstrip you can make your graphic card to output almost whatever resolution you want. However, the question is: will the set accept that signal and will it map 1:1?

I tried this on Sony (through VGA) but it will not accept anything higher than 768x1360. At this resolution I get a small 1:1 mapped image in the middle of screen. I don’t have the opportunity to do it on Samsung HDMI yet – may be some other user could test it.

Regarding that firmware upgrade – it looks rather like vaporware to me.

buzzy_

11-25-06, 12:06 PM

Padrino

11-25-06, 12:34 PM

I just got this TV today with the VGA cord for the 360. I must say that compared to the Component, it is really lacking. The picture just doesn't feel as vibriant & bright(adjusting the the contrast/brightness settings does not help, it feels like you're looking through a very thin layer of fog as compared to viewing over component). Also, the layer of detail isn't quite as crisp. I did a few comparisons switching between the 2 and it was highly noticeable. The thing that bothers me is that regular DVDs get downscaled through component to 480p but they upconfort through the VGA. DVDs played through the VGA look remarkably better at 1920x1080. Guess this means I will probably have to just get an external HD DVD because after comparing component to VGA directly, there is no way I could go with VGA. Hope this helps

I also posted about this in the other 4095/4095 thread. I have been telling folks for a while to skip the VGA/360 for this TV. It has to do with the way the VGA standard works for PCs versus video signals. My advice, return the VGA cable and stick with component. The basic Xbox 360 dvd playback is pretty poor anyway and the TV probably scales the 480 DVD better than the Xbox anyway.

Here is a good Joystiq post about the issues with VGA...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/08/fix-for-360s-1080p-troubles-is-being-worked-on

If you are curious about VGA and 360 take a look this thread and look for "235".
http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-259524.html

Padrino

11-25-06, 12:58 PM

While everybody is in a tizzy over overscan, has anyone played newer games. I remember reading on these forums that the GRAW overscan of the HUD was due to developers testing on a PC instead of HDTVs where ALL sets have some overscan. Sony and Sharp fanboys took that and ran with it. I'm playing Rainbow Six Vegas now and it has the same HUD outline which is fully visible around the screen. Ubisoft got their act together. Is there now a compelling reason to do a firmware upgrade just for GRAW?!

You are right, the issue is way overblown. Still I understand the desire to be able to turn it off. I am not going to worry about it since the fix is only for HDMI. Video will still compensate for overscan and the extra 2% you gain will always be non-critical to any game or movie. Even in graw the line is just a border and not needed in any way.

ittech

11-25-06, 05:09 PM

ittech

11-25-06, 05:12 PM

cash banquet

11-25-06, 05:15 PM

Here is the link to the page which talks about the new "JustScan" mode on the review site.

Translated into Engrish from Korean by babelfish :)

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ko_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.tv4u.co.kr%2fTV4U%2fcontent.asp%3fidx %3d1161%26Sec%3d4

thanks for the link. my favorite part was the headline "The bedspread which will be exchanged how?" that's hard-hitting stuff ;)

Shiverzz

11-25-06, 06:57 PM

Hey guys, I just picked up the European equivalent of the LN-S4095D (the LE40F71). So far I very pleased with the picture quality it produces. Unfortunately I’m having problems to get my panel accepting 1920x1080@60Hz through VGA from my HTPC. 1600x1200 is the highest res it will work with, but when I change it to 1920x1080@60Hz I get the message “mode not supported”. Am I overlooking something? According to the manual this panel shouldn’t have a problem accepting this signal.

Thanks a bunch! :)

tf4

11-26-06, 09:11 AM

magic carpet

11-26-06, 11:30 AM

Here is the link to the page which talks about the new "JustScan" mode on the review site.

Translated into Engrish from Korean by babelfish :)

At the moment the link doesn't work. :(
Could you pls. summarize for us?

neonsnow

11-26-06, 04:39 PM

Because you have VGA, could you confirm if your regular DVDs are upconverted. When I hit info, it says the DVD is in 720x480p through component. As for overscan, I'm seeing my full HUD and outline like GRAW with no problem. I think the previous GRAW overscan debacle was due to developers testing on PCs in stead of compensating for TV overscan. If I'm wrong correct me (nicely!). :) BTW, King Kong in HD looks amazing. Can't wait for Superman in HD glory! I really need the component cables for the Wii since it only comes with composite. BTW, 4695D if that helps.
it seems to be not upconverting, its just scaling the 480p/i signal to 1920x1080

1080p gottahavit

11-26-06, 04:53 PM

neonsnow

11-26-06, 05:03 PM

At the moment the link doesn't work. :(
Could you pls. summarize for us?

for you. ;)

1. Recently Samsung have decided that upgrade firmware for satisfaction of user's desire - pixel mapping over HDMI input.

2. What is visible change

a. Sample images

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_169.jpg
※ Image Sample - 16:9 mode (overscanned)

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_justscan.jpg
※ Image Sample - Justscan mode (1:1 pixel matched)

b. zoomin images
http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_res2_169.jpg
※ Resolution Pattern - 16:9 mode (overscanned)

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_res2_justscan.jpg
※ Resolution Pattern - Justscan mode (1:1 pixel matched)

3. How to set Justscan
you have to assign name as PC to HDMI/DVI - you have connected - of external input list cuz Justscan mode is for user who wana connect PC via HDMI(he said or samsung said)

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_osd_1.jpg

Note: DNIe menu going to be gray out which means you can NOT turn DNIe on

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_osd_4.jpg

4. How about Bluray over HDMI
You can select mode you want

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_bdp_169.jpg
※ Bluray Movie - 16:9 mode (overscanned)

http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_bdp_justscan.jpg
※ Bluray Movie - Justscan mode (1:1 pixel matched)

I heard Samsung upgrade firmware a couple of times to fix several bug after this review but honestly not sure.

MeNoPausE

11-26-06, 05:40 PM

quote : pixelswim
"2) 96 has a USB (Universal Serial Bus - used in PCs) port that can be used to pop
in your flash memory datakey etc and listen to music over your TV setup or
watch a slide show from your digital camera - that sort of stuff. It has also
been suggested that this might provide a more convenient port for tweeks
or firmware updates from Samsung although I know of no confirmation. Also
note that the USB port is only ver 1.1 but that should be good enough for
these uses."

Does this mean that only the 96 models can get a firmware update or can the 95 series also get firmware updates through some other means. I like both series but I don't need a cable card so the sn-4095d seems the best bet as long as I can get a firmware update possibly in the future.

juldebtkm

11-26-06, 05:47 PM

Hi all, I'm new to this forum so please don't hesitate to let me know if I'm not doing this correctly...I just purchased a Samsung LN-S4695D. I'm noticing that my PS2 looks somewhat "grainy" or "fuzzy". Any ideas as to what I could do to make it look better?

pixelswim

11-26-06, 06:32 PM

Pixelswim,

I picked up my 4095D yesterday. I hooked it up to my DirecTV DVR and an Iodata Avel Linkplayer 2. All I can say is I have no regrets! The thing that finally sold me after my trip to best buy was that black lacquer finish. Yeah, it sounds corny but all things aside the Sony LCD is probably made by Samsung anyways (I thought I read that it was a 50/50 joint venture)

So now I am on to trying to get a decent HD DVR. The one I have I think does 480P or something because there *is* a 16:9 mode and the picture takes up the full screen. The problem is I have to old DirecTV DVR and it has the nice Tivo interface, my wife is going to kill me if I make her learn something new.

My friend told me I could use rabbit ears for over the air HDTV, I am baffled by that I thought you had to mount it outside on your roof. So I am going to go to Radio Shack today and pick up a 'HDTV' antennae.

Thanks for all your help. I am truely enjoying it. I watched Beerfest on it last night and the beginning scene looks like beer is really being poured into my TV! I had to run out and get beer it made me so thirsty!

tf4,

Congrats on your new 4095D! Glad to hear your first viewings look good and we'll be interested to hear your tale as it continues. You are correct about the Sony/Samsung joint venture. I think it might be 51sammy/49sony - the news releases were years ago, the plants are huge.

Good luck on your HD DVR search. I was thinking about getting an upconverting dvd player for about 200 until I kept reading in the 96D threads about people getting the toshiba hd-a1 hd-dvd player. It can be had for about 400 now and it is supposed to do a good job as an upconverter of standard DVDs. I'd be interested to hear your take on HD-DVRs although this is off-topic for here.

About antennae, I believe it's true, believe it or not, that you can get by with lesser types, even rabbit ear quality. With digital, you pretty much either get it or not and when you do lock in, it's superb quality, often better than cable or sat. and it's free. There are plenty of threads about it here. I believe there's a lot of stuff about the $35 Phillps Silver Sensor - which I believe is a whacko cheap looking thing, but works well with good signals. Also, there's a web site that can tell you the distance/strength and direction of each HD signal you can get, no matter where you are. (I figure maybe you're in Bavaria, still drinking beer.)

Best, pixelswim

ittech

11-26-06, 06:44 PM

Does anyone have an email address for Samsung technical support? In my opinion more people contacting them about the overscan issue will increase the URGENCY of a fix particularly with pre-christmas sales. I know many people have purchased these units and are happy with them despite the overscan issue but it annoys me that a huge company like Samsung is not accepting responsibilty for quality control.
Not to single out Samsung, look at Sony which once had a good reputation for quallity products but more recently has had a multitude of problems as a result of using inferior components. This has seriously damaged their reputation as well as their bottom line.
To be fair to Samsung these LCDs do look relatively good for the price but they should take responsibility for a technical problem of this nature and at least provide a fix. Thanks

I have not even purchased this set yet (4696) however I have a call in to samsung level 2 tech support regarding future availability of this update.

I have a samsung DVD player that can't do divx but the region 2 player does do divx so we can't rely on that Korea gets it then we get it as well.

I may buy the korean version of this TV if it's possible then, as I now own the european region 2 divx 950 sammy player.

Call 1-800-SAMSUNG and I beleive you hit 4 then 1 then 1 however that's just from memory. :)

Tell them you are having problems with PC over HDMI and heard about a firmware update to fix this issue being released soon.

I really hope they fix this as my only other choice is the Bravia V2500 46" and that IMO looks worse as a TV and doesn't have VGA 1:1... Which I would like to use for the 360.

lwk152

11-27-06, 01:47 AM

I have the 46" and am a little confused by some earlier posts. Is there a new firmware update for the Samsung that allows 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI?
If so how does one perform the update? Went to Samsungs website and no mention of the file on the global support page

9158

11-27-06, 06:59 AM

neonsnow, thanks a lot for your summary.

Do you know the answers to these questions?

1) Is it possible to use "Justscan Mode" only with a PC or also with video sources like a Blu-ray player or the Playstation 3?

2) If it is possible, can you still turn DNIe OFF with sources that are not PCs, like BD players and the PS3?

jlohrenz

11-27-06, 11:03 AM

Just picked up the LN-S4696D from BB this weekend. I'm very pleased with this set and how it performs with my PS3.

Currently I'm running the PS3 through component. Should I switch it to HDMI? Would that look better on this set?

TIA!

Jason L.

mhakman

11-27-06, 07:33 PM

There are a number of posts, in one of the three threads on these sets, about people who say they've been successful using nvidia drivers/cards to adjust for the overscan. Obviously that doesn't help people w/out that hardware. And you of course lose some real estate in the process, though not a lot.
Many thanks Buzzy. Now I understand what Nfogarty5 means. He’s referring to a technique not as much of changing graphic card’s output resolution as of fooling OS to believe that the resolution is less than it actually is and filling the difference with zeros. You still get black border (overscan) but the rest is a 1:1 map of the whole PC display. Nvidia has my deepest respect for solving this problem created by Samsung and others too.

Is there a link to a page describing which nvidia cards/circuits and drivers are needed?

Shouldn’t this be possible to do with Powerstrip for the other cards? It allows you to specify what resolution is seen by OS and what resolution is sent out.

On the other hand I wouldn’t expect TV sets in the actual price range to require this kind of messing around. For previous generation of TV sets (768x1366) they told us that the problem is there because 768x1366 isn’t VESA compliant (as if the choice of this particular resolution wasn’t their). Now, 1080x1920 is VESA compliant. And the problem is still there. This comment applies not only to Samsung but to the whole gang with possible exception of LG.

I wonder what the real source of this problem is. I suspect it is not a technical one.

munsell

11-27-06, 07:57 PM

Call 1-800-SAMSUNG and I beleive you hit 4 then 1 then 1 however that's just from memory. :)

Tell them you are having problems with PC over HDMI and heard about a firmware update to fix this issue being released soon.

I contacted Samsung tech support and talked with two reps who informed me that there were no planned firmware updates for the US model (LN-S4696D) to address the "overscan issue" (1:1 pixel mapping). While this does not mean that there will not be a firmware upgrade (it would not be the first time that tech support was out of the loop), this issue will keep me from purchasing a 4696D at this point in time. :(

mhakman

11-27-06, 07:57 PM

You are right, the issue is way overblown. Still I understand the desire to be able to turn it off. I am not going to worry about it since the fix is only for HDMI. Video will still compensate for overscan and the extra 2% you gain will always be non-critical to any game or movie. Even in graw the line is just a border and not needed in any way.
Not overblown at all IMHO. I keep TV sets for about 10 yrs. Within this time frame the chances are about 100% that I will need HDMI input and that video, images, web pages, screens and dialog boxes will be pumped to the set from a computer.

Rendering engine on the computer counts on, that if it says “turn this pixel on” then that pixel will be turned on using the OS specified RGB value. This is important not only when displaying computer screens, icons and text but also still images and video. Up (or down) scaling, i/p conversion, and image improvement including video can be done much better on a computer as compared to standalone DVD and/or TV set due to many orders of magnitude greater processing power of today’s (and tomorrow’s) computers.

mfogarty5

11-27-06, 11:24 PM

magic carpet

11-28-06, 03:52 AM

The Samsung has overscan also for BD and HD-DVD on HDMI.
Also the component in has overscan.
Do you think this is normal?
I don't think so.
Sony and Sharp displays allow users to control overscan.
Why Samsung decided not to include this option?

chappy16775

11-28-06, 04:21 PM

jlohrenz

11-28-06, 04:25 PM

How do these firmware updates usually work? Do you have to have a tech come on-site to do it, or can you apply it yourself?

I'm from the IT world, so firmware updates on all sorts of devices is not unusual to me, but this is the first time with a display.

TIA!

chappy16775

11-28-06, 04:28 PM

I think the tech has to do it. Note that TV manufacturers rarely update firmware so its only when there is a major problem that it happens. I guess this is considered a big problem (to keep the whiners on this board happy!)

buzzy_

11-29-06, 05:06 AM

magic carpet

11-29-06, 09:17 AM

Come on people, at least read a little before posting.

- Overscan is normal on all TVs. In fact, it's necessary. See mfogarty's post just a few posts up.

- There is no guarantee there will ever be a firmware upgrade for the US market for these TVs.

Overscan is needed for antenna or SD transmissions, NOT FOR DIGITAL inputs, like HDMI.
Do you like cut images (like zoomed) with your PS3 and BD or X360?
I don't think so...

Why Samsung has to cut images of our games or movies?
Just give us the chance to decide...

mhakman

11-29-06, 07:53 PM

mhakman,

The instructions for nvidia video cards can be found right in this thread. I have quoted them below.

For all the rest of you who keep complaining about overscan on this set, you should be aware that all sets had overscan until a few months ago.

How long have HDMI PCIe video cards been on the market? Are there any on the market yet?

My point is that HDMI is a CE interface and DVI is a PC interface. Yes, the two should work together, but you are complaining about something no set had until the newest Sonys and Sharps were released a month or two ago.

We all hope that the 1:1 firmware is released, but I am really tired of reading overscan/lack of 1:1 complaints.

In fact I bet 50% of the 100+ pages of this thread are people complaining about 1:1 mapping or asking the difference between the 95 series and 96 series.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8052921&&#post8052921
Many thanks for help and quoted instructions. I’m however a little confused by you seemingly defending the producer in this consumer/producer game. Also, Solano instructions are maybe right but his explanation is not.

First, HDMI is hardly a new standard. It is at version 1.3 now starting at 1.0. Also, HDMI should not only work with DVI but apart from mechanical layout and audio stuff HDMI is DVI. Furthermore, the current overscan problem on Samsung is not related to DVI in any way. It overscans on all 1080x1920 signals from all known digital sources including other Samsung devices even in HDMI-HDMI connections. I don’t understand why you bring DVI into this issue at all. Sony does 1:1 mapping over HDMI (but has problems with analog ports instead). LG (some models) does it right on both digital and analog.

The fact that a lot of people are complaining about 1:1 mapping only shows how important this issue is to us. This is also a way to let Samsung know how critical this is for us.

Solano mixes 3 things together, HDMI standard, video formats, and color spaces. HDMI can be used to transfer a number of video formats and resolutions in a number of color spaces. There isn’t one digital standard for PC and another for CE devices. There is one HDMI standard. Using this standard a number of video formats and resolutions can be transmitted. The 1080x1920 RGB signal is called HDTV, 1200x1920 RGB signal is called WUXGA etc. Both are in RGB color space.

SMPTE has defined how 1080x1920 HDTV is to be transmitted in digital form. This includes some “overscan” unused lines and columns, but these are outside the 1080x1920 area. SMPTE has also recommended that when video is to be transmitted by low quality analog transmission systems then most of a movie action should stay within 1062x1888 pixel area in the center. Neither of these things has any bearing on how video from a DVD player, images from a computer, and games from a console or even a DVB TV program is displayed on screen. 1080x1920 pixels are to be displayed. Period.

Samsung (and the other vendors) are of course free to make and “push” whatever TV sets they find appropriate. They should however clearly document how they implement various standards and recommendations in their specifications. Consumers on the other hand are free to “push” the vendors to provide products that the customers find appropriate for their needs, using various legal means of which this thread is one. This game is called The Market.

Cheers/Mikael

Category 5

11-30-06, 02:04 AM

Just wanted to say I got the 4095 and am extremely disappointed. How this set got such high ratings is beyond me. I am coming from a 32" sharp, and yes...the size and 1080p resolution are nice, but the shadow detail and color rendition is a joke on these Samsungs. Despite turning off the crappy DINe setting, and trying to adjust every other setting I can find the blacks crush, and seem to have shades of red and brown in them (trying to fake more shades?). The color is completely unnatural, and when brightness and contrast are set according to AVIA I get a somewhat watchable picture, but contrast goes to hell.

My Sharp was just about perfect in every respect except a slight red push (which was fixable through the primary color sliders under advanced).

I am at a loss for what to try next. I have an Xbox360 that I'd like to run though VGA, but there aren't many sets that behave properly when using it. The Samsung does 1080p beautifully...but the color and shadow issues are just too much to take.

For those of you who bought these sets based on store demos, you don't know what you're missing. Get a good Sharp in your home, and calibrate it and it's several times closer to the image you get from a plasma or tube. I just don't know what to make of this. I am so frustrated.

I can't be the only one who feels this way, can I? I sthere maybe a newer firmware that addresses some of these issues?

PS - The audio is anemic on this set too! My 32" Sharp had at least some balanced sound with bottom end. This thing sounds like an alarm clock. I swear I'm not a troll but I am so displeased. sigh.

skim123

11-30-06, 08:56 AM

djb27

11-30-06, 01:42 PM

Has anyone had any clouding problems with the 4695 or 4696? I am looking at getting one but concerned that they are going to have the same clouding issues as the Sonys because of the shared manufacturing.

pixelswim

11-30-06, 06:01 PM

Just patting myself on the back for reading this entire thread! :)

Anyway, thanks for all the valuable posts that have made my decision easier. Was considering getting a fujitsu 50 plasma, but seems I can get a 5296 and another panel for my bedroom for the same price so I'm probably going to go with that.

Good work, skim123, I read the entire thing late this summer and it's an education. It's also a lot of fun, at least was for me. I've been mixing it in with reading the tech stuff like how QAM works and why photons really fly off from phospher and stuff like that. I'm excited about the 5296 too. --pixelswim

MrFritz

11-30-06, 08:41 PM

Feedback would be appreciated

I bought the Sammy 4696 2 weeks ago. Previously I had a complaint about the 4696 but, overall, I loved it. To keep it short, I'm on my 3rd Sammy. The first had a scratch and the second had a bad tuner. But the picture on Cable, DTV and HD we all good to great. Last Monday, BB came with my replacement.

Don't have the S/N or FW# for the first box. But I think it's from the same lot as #2.

Sammy #2
S/N = AFQD3CFL900907Y
FW: MODULE = T-MOSAUS0-1005
DATE = 2006-07-22
MICOM = T-MOSAUS5-1001

Sammy #3
S/N = AFQD3CFLA01967M
FW: MODULE = T-MOSAUS0-1009
DATE = 2006-08-23
MICOM = T-MOSAUS5-1002

I'm finding the picture on #3 to be lackluster. It's kind of hard to describe. HD is sharply focus with good color, but nothing stands out. As best as I can describe it, it's like there is a film over the picture causing it to be "duller." The PQ on DTV and cable are significantly less. Tweaking the settings does not improve anything. Here's what I think.

1) I see people sharing their settings. I tried some of them with Sammy #2 but it did not look good. In fact, it was terrible. Setting Sammy #3 to the same values I had with Sammy #2 is also very poor. I think the S/N &/or FW version makes a very big difference as to what settings you use.

2) When scanning past a PPV DTV station with unscrambled content, the unit will freeze and go through some sort of processor restart procedure that takes 2-3 minutes to reset itself and then display the content.

I loved the PQ from Sammy #1 and #2. But, Sammy #3 is very disappointing. And the "Station Freeze" is very annoying. I'm seriously considering taking it back for a Sony XBR3 unless these issues are correctable. I don't want a Sammy #4.

I would appreciate any info &/or comments regarding these issues.

Thanks,
Fred

tcwong

11-30-06, 11:30 PM

I just got my 4095D TV today and tuning the setting. Can other user post their setting, so I can dail in for the best picture quicker. Thanks.

mark_1080p

12-01-06, 01:46 AM

Just wanted to say I got the 4095 and am extremely disappointed.I started with the Sammy 5296 feeling this way a bit, I have 2 smaller Sharp d7u's. As I learned more about the set, though, I began to see that with some adjustments the black crush can be mitigated to some extent without DNIe. Movie mode is working for me, with the contrast set near max, brightness about 50, color Warm 1. I disagree on color, this thing puts out nice colors in movie mode. Other modes are too cool temperature wise.

These panels definitely clip the low level greys more than Sharps, its dumb because they have good contrast now and they don't need to do it to look good. Pushing up the brightness a bit, keeping the backlight on min (esavings max) helps. I went into the service menu and turned dynamic dimming on, that helps with blacks a little (see the 5296 thread for details).

These sets need some work, but I don't think they are junk either. With some work, they can perform pretty well, but they do crush blacks on some scenes, but I feel they can render most scenes very well if tweaked a bit.

MrFritz

12-01-06, 06:30 PM

I just got my 4095D TV today and tuning the setting. Can other user post their setting, so I can dail in for the best picture quicker. Thanks.

As I noted in my post, I think that the firmware version and/or batch (serial number) does make a difference in what settings you use. Anyway, another user posted settings which did not work for me. The settings I used for my earlier Sammy #2 are different. As for my Sammy #3, I'm using default values at the moment with Energy Savings Off.

Item............Prior Poster..........My Sammy #2

Mode...................MOVIE...............CUSTOM
Contrast..................80...................80
Brightness................75...................48
Color.....................50...................53
Tint......................50...................50
Sharpness..................0...................51
Color Temp............Warm 2...............Normal
Game Mode................Off..................Off
Energy Saver............High..................Off
DNR........................?...................On
DNIe.......................?...................On
Film Mode..................?...................On

1080p gottahavit

12-01-06, 09:59 PM

Don't want to get hopes up too much but I received confirmation today from Samsung that there is a firmware fix for the overscanning issues as seen on the Korean website previously posted. I will post as soon as I can verify this with something real. I was asked by the tech if I was technically inclined and I responded with a yes of course. It sounds like they may be reluctant to forward it to me or place it on their website for download until they can make it idiot proof or they may choose to have techs do the update.

colinp

12-01-06, 10:52 PM

I just received my LN-S4695 on Wednesday. After months of research, I finally bought it on Black Friday. Received it at a great price. After fiddling around with the settings, I have an absolutely gorgeous picture. Can some one please help me with my home theather system.

I have my TV set up to the Sony DAV-DX375 home theatre system via a hdmi cable. The cable goes from the TV to the home theather receiver/dvd player. All my dvds play with the 5.1 surround sound. However, when I watch cable TV, I can't get the speakers to play. What connections do I have to use to get the speakers to work with cable tv. Do I need more than the HDMI? The Sony rep told me yes, the Samsung rep told me no. I am more confused than ever.

MES

12-02-06, 06:00 AM

Wiretwister

12-02-06, 10:51 AM

I bought the Samsung 4695D yesterday along with the Onkyo HTS894 5.1 Surround Sound Home Theater. They both work wonderful, however, there is a little quirk with setting up the 894. I had to connect the HTS894 via component cables to the Samsung 4695 in order to get the on screen setup display for configuring the AV received/dvd player. It won't work using the HDMI cable.. bleh. However, after setting everything up, you can re-connect the HDMI cable and it works fine.

tcwong

12-02-06, 08:58 PM

Thanks and working great!

As I noted in my post, I think that the firmware version and/or batch (serial number) does make a difference in what settings you use. Anyway, another user posted settings which did not work for me. The settings I used for my earlier Sammy #2 are different. As for my Sammy #3, I'm using default values at the moment with Energy Savings Off.

Item............Prior Poster..........My Sammy #2

Mode...................MOVIE...............CUSTOM
Contrast..................80...................80
Brightness................75...................48
Color.....................50...................53
Tint......................50...................50
Sharpness..................0...................51
Color Temp............Warm 2...............Normal
Game Mode................Off..................Off
Energy Saver............High..................Off
DNR........................?...................On
DNIe.......................?...................On
Film Mode..................?...................On

tcwong

12-02-06, 08:59 PM

Does anyone experience the same issue?

when switched to 1080i upconversion, the screen flickers nonstop in a purple color. Even if a disk isn't in the player and just the Samsung "screensaver" is up the same thing happens.

This is annoying!!! I still have about 25 days left before I can return the set. Thanks!

colinp

12-02-06, 09:14 PM

I noticed the rca in plugs on the back of the dvd player. Perhaps those will play, don't know if it will separate the channels though on the certain shows.

I figured it out last night. It was exactly as you said. Thanks.

MrFritz

12-03-06, 12:32 PM

Thanks and working great!

tcwong

Please tell me:
1) What model Sammy do you have?
2) Which of these 2 setting did you like best?
3) What is the S/N and Firmware info for your Sammy?

Thanks,
Fred

tcwong

12-03-06, 02:18 PM

Hi,

1) I have the Sammyu 4095D
2) I like setting 1 better on the Movie mode
3) How do I check the firmware info? Mine was manufactured in Oct 2006. Thanks.

tcwong

Please tell me:
1) What model Sammy do you have?
2) Which of these 2 setting did you like best?
3) What is the S/N and Firmware info for your Sammy?

Thanks,
Fred

MrFritz

12-03-06, 05:01 PM

Hi,

1) I have the Sammyu 4095D
2) I like setting 1 better on the Movie mode
3) How do I check the firmware info? Mine was manufactured in Oct 2006. Thanks.

The S/N is located on the tag on the lower right edge of your TV.

To get the Firmware info, do the following from your remote control:

1) Press Menu

2) Select Setup / Enter / Go to "Function Help"

3) Select "ON" / Enter and then press the "Info" button on the remote. The Firmware info will be displayed on the screen.

For my Sammy 4696's
My S/N's Were/Are: AFQD3CFL900807Y & AFQD2CFLA01967M
My old firmware was dated 2006-07-22 while the new one is 2006-08-23
Loved the PQ on both older units. Hate it on this newest unit.

P.S. to Anyone
Someone stated that the Sony's are having an issue with "Clouding." Just what is Clouding and does this issue affect any Sammys?

Fred

hakujin

12-03-06, 08:33 PM

sauron256

12-03-06, 11:47 PM

P.S. to Anyone
Someone stated that the Sony's are having an issue with "Clouding." Just what is Clouding and does this issue affect any Sammys?

Fred

Check out post 375 from the XBR2 Cloudiness Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8996506&&#post8996506) to see what a cloudy set looks like.

As far as Sammys go, look at this picture of a Sammy I returned.

Cloudy LN-S4695D (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8960507&&#post8960507)

The current theory is that cloudiness is a manufacturing defect of the panel itself. The term "mura" is the technical term used to describe this issue and is defined as low contrast non-uniformity of the screen.

Currently, there isn't enough data to say how common this problem is with the Sammys. With the Sonys, it appears to be greater than half the sets out there if you believe the poll on that thread.

Hope that helps.

chappy16775

12-04-06, 12:51 AM

sauron256

12-04-06, 10:12 AM

I think the cloudiness occurs in almost all LCD sets. I don't think there is anything that can be done about it at the moment. Perhaps a few years down the line it will be figured out...

I have a cloudy spot in the bottom left corner of my 4696D....just have to get used to it I guess.

Sony seems to agree that this is a defect based on owners who have had Sony authorized techs come out to their homes. In those cases, a replacement was sent or a new panel was ordered.

chappy16775

12-04-06, 10:50 AM

Sony seems to agree that this is a defect based on owners who have had Sony authorized techs come out to their homes. In those cases, a replacement was sent or a new panel was ordered.

I have a Samsung tech coming out tomorrow to fix a buzzing noise I'm getting. I'll also ask about the cloudiness (and overscan...)...

MrFritz

12-04-06, 02:27 PM

I have a Samsung tech coming out tomorrow to fix a buzzing noise I'm getting. I'll also ask about the cloudiness (and overscan...)...

Went back to BB today. They won't have any more 4696's or 46" Sony XBR3's till Dec 28. But they're sending out a tech later this week to look at my poor PQ and audio issues. If I want, they will replace or swap on 12/28 and do price matching for 60 days thereafter. Also, the warrantee starts from the day I get a "keeper."

Can't fault BB for my Sammy problems. And, to date, Their service has been both friendly and faultless. For what it's worth, The Magnolia Theater manager thinks the Sony is the better choice. But I'm having trouble justifying the $600 price difference. I'll decide after the Tech comes.

Fred

jlohrenz

12-04-06, 02:48 PM

Funny. Our Magnolia thought the Sammy had the better picture. They were sitting right next to each other and not only did the Sammy look more stylish, the Sammy had a better picture in store. The price difference on ours were about $700.

I'm glad I got the Sammy. It was the last one they had in stock as well. So far mine has been working great, and with the wife home this month, it's really getting a run through.

J

chappy16775

12-05-06, 03:25 PM

Well my tech came out and replaced the main boards in my 4696D. Problems seem cleared up now. However, he didn't know anything about Overscan. What a bummer.

Oh well.

jlohrenz

12-05-06, 03:31 PM

Did your firmware version change or did you get any new options under the menus or System menu?

chappy16775

12-05-06, 05:47 PM

Firmware is the same. We'll just have to sit tight for the new firmware in the US if they do release it.

CadJoe

12-05-06, 08:29 PM

Well my tech came out and replaced the main boards in my 4696D. Problems seem cleared up now. However, he didn't know anything about Overscan. What a bummer.

Oh well.

Did you ask him about the cloudiness / firmware / cause?
Truth about shipping on the side?

Thanks,

CadJoe

darcmasta

12-05-06, 11:22 PM

sorry to bring up an old question. Are we 100% sure that the LN-S4096D supports 1080p over Component? if not does the LN-S4095D support it?

krispykeith

12-05-06, 11:42 PM

I am 100% sure my 4695 is pulling 1080p via component as that is how i have my xbox 360 setup.

jlohrenz

12-06-06, 09:26 AM

I have a 4696, which is the same series as the 4096, just bigger. I can do 1080p over component.

chappy16775

12-06-06, 10:58 AM

Did you ask him about the cloudiness / firmware / cause?
Truth about shipping on the side?

Thanks,

CadJoe

I thought my TV had 'clouds' but it was just reflections of various light sources in the room. The tech was not really aware of this problem. In fact, he was basically some guy who knew how to open the TV up and replace the main circuit boards. Bit of a let down.

y2j

12-07-06, 12:34 AM

I'm looking into buying the Samsung LNS4696d 46" 1080P LCD HDTV and I'd like to get the opinions from some of the owners of this tv and have a few questions answered as well.

I plan to use the tv primarily for playing games on the PS3 and Xbox 360 and also for watching local OTA HDTV channels. Are the owners of this tv happy with the gaming performance on this model? What about the OTA reception as far as the set being able to pick up all the channels available?

Does anyone regret buying this tv? Is there any other 46" 1080p LCDs that offer better performance than this model that are in the same price range? How does the Sharp 46" Aquos 1080p or the Sony 46" XBR2 model stack up to the Samsung?

I appreciate any feedback you can give me as to the pros and cons of this model and which model in general is best for 1080p gaming and OTA HDTV!

jlohrenz

12-07-06, 09:57 AM

y2j:

I bought the 4694d after we aquired a PS3. I will say that when configured correctly, this display works great with the PS3. The image quality is great.
I cannot comment on OTA HDTV channels, but for the HD Channels I get through my cable company, the picture quality is outstanding.

I think you would be very happy with this display.

chappy16775

12-07-06, 10:35 AM

Wiretwister

12-07-06, 10:39 AM

I agree with chappy16775.

Personally, I would have bought the XBR2 if it had been within $100 or so of the samsung price. However it was approximately 500+ more so it wasn't worth it IMO.

I am in love with the Samsung. I have not had a single problem thus far except for trying to get Brighthouse to connect the Pace 551 HD STB to it. It wont receive a picture in any way shape or form, either via component or hdmi, connecting directly into the back of the TV w/ nothing else connected.

colinp

12-07-06, 11:27 AM

Quick question: How do I get the TV to memorize my channels. Let me give you my setup:

1. I have my HD cable box hooked into my Sony home theather receiver.
2. I the Sony receiver hooked into the 4695 via hdmi.
3. I have an audio wire from the Sony to the 4695 so I can hear the surround sound with the cable channels.
4. I have the cable box hooked up to the 4695 via rca cables.

Here is the problem. When I go to the setup, my component 1 slot is all my cable channels. When I go to cable, the tv only memorized 5 channels, and they are all hazy. I need to find out how to get the TV to memorize all my cable channels under "cable" so I could properly use the Picture in Picture.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Padrino

12-08-06, 02:55 AM

It is not way overblown, see the very good difference in quality you get from not stretching everything to fit 1080p from overscanning 1080p

Overscanned 1080p
http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_res2_169.jpg

1:1 1080p
http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/Review/review4u/ReviewImg/mosel_dvi_res2_justscan.jpg

And the next time I site 3 inches away from my TV, I will be sure to take notice.

Look, I aint saying its perfect, I know its not. But with my old man vision and 8 feet away from the TV, its not that much diffrent. As I said, I wish the 1:1 was an option, I just don't feel like it takes that much away from the TV which looks incredibly good with the Xbox and HDTV. 1:1 or not 1:1. I would not use the monitor for photoshop but for gears of war, I think it still works.

And Honestly, the only major thing that I notice in the picture is the moray patterns. Which if I start watching those for entertainment, you can shoot me :)

Not overblown at all IMHO. I keep TV sets for about 10 yrs. Within this time frame the chances are about 100% that I will need HDMI input and that video, images, web pages, screens and dialog boxes will be pumped to the set from a computer.

Rendering engine on the computer counts on, that if it says “turn this pixel on” then that pixel will be turned on using the OS specified RGB value. This is important not only when displaying computer screens, icons and text but also still images and video. Up (or down) scaling, i/p conversion, and image improvement including video can be done much better on a computer as compared to standalone DVD and/or TV set due to many orders of magnitude greater processing power of today’s (and tomorrow’s) computers.

mhakman, I think you are forgetting the fact that this is not a computer monitor, its a TV. That being said, I agree that it does not make a good computer monitor. I do think it makes a great TV though. Moving images that are typical fair, don't require exact pixel mapping. When watching moving images, its pretty difficult to even see the difference. And even in 5 years, overscan will still be a factor that is taken into account for HDMI sources. In 10 it may be a thing of the past though. But by then I may actually want to upgrade and it will be nice to have an excuse.

mhakman

12-08-06, 09:30 AM

And the next time I site 3 inches away from my TV, I will be sure to take notice.

Look, I aint saying its perfect, I know its not. But with my old man vision and 8 feet away from the TV, its not that much diffrent. As I said, I wish the 1:1 was an option, I just don't feel like it takes that much away from the TV which looks incredibly good with the Xbox and HDTV. 1:1 or not 1:1. I would not use the monitor for photoshop but for gears of war, I think it still works.

And Honestly, the only major thing that I notice in the picture is the moray patterns. Which if I start watching those for entertainment, you can shoot me :)

mhakman, I think you are forgetting the fact that this is not a computer monitor, its a TV. That being said, I agree that it does not make a good computer monitor. I do think it makes a great TV though. Moving images that are typical fair, don't require exact pixel mapping. When watching moving images, its pretty difficult to even see the difference. And even in 5 years, overscan will still be a factor that is taken into account for HDMI sources. In 10 it may be a thing of the past though. But by then I may actually want to upgrade and it will be nice to have an excuse.

If it is only for reception of TV programs then why does it have all these connectors in the first place? It is sold as having 1080x1920 native resolution therefore it should be able to display this resolution from all sources. The fact that it handles 1080x1920 signal is not enough – it is sold as having 1080x1920 native resolution. Otherwise they could sell 1x1 panel (one pixel) that handles 10000x10000 signal. It is simply the question of when marketing info and specifications start to be untrue as perceived by customers. I think that they sell less than they promise hence the problem.

Also, because you seem to believe that it doesn’t matter for motion pictures, it does. If the video is done to be best at 1080x1920 then it won’t be best when mapped to other resolutions. Furthermore, in my home, the computer is the main source of video, whether that video is coming from DVD-record or hard disc or digital TV card.

I don’t know about your “old man vision” but in my family we do see the difference, old and young members alike. Just look at the grass and trees, and especially pines (in full HD material of course).

Also there are no good reasons not to map 1:1 but there are plenty to do so. It is not in any way more difficult or expensive to produce a set with 1:1 mapping compared to overscanning and scaling. In fact 1:1 mapping is the simplest way to display the signal. So why don’t they do it? You tell me please.

Spreading around rumors about a fix without actually delivering it only strengthens my feeling of being cheated.

jlohrenz

12-08-06, 09:47 AM

Riverside_Guy

12-08-06, 10:14 AM

mhakman

12-09-06, 06:19 AM

There is an actual reason why overscanning technology was created and used in the first place. Many video signals tend to have edges that aren't clean and sharp. If they got rid of overscan, you'd all be screaming about the "creeping crawlies" along edges of the picture and how distracting it was. So they use overscan to NOT allow you to see this kind of junk.

I didn't participate in the decision, but my guess would be that's exactly the reason why they say to use the VGA connection for a computer, it does NOT have overscan.

So if you feel you must have 1:1 mapping from a computer output, use the VGA connection and you'll get what you want.
That reason applies to analog TV transmission over low quality transmission systems only. There are no reasons for those “creeping crawlies” in digital transmissions at all or in analog coming from local sources such as DVD-player not to mention computer generated images.

Furthermore, solving problems that some analog broadcasters have by crippling TV sets for all customers is wrong way to go, but if they do then they should state that in their specifications and not market the set as 1080x1920, because it doesn’t display 1080x1920. HDMI has nothing with those analog problems to do. Also, Sammy does 1:1 using analog ports where there is at least a chance for these problems but it overscans on digital where such problems do not exists. So they are doing the opposite of what they should do even when using your logics.

Moreover, even then they could provide a simple switch to control 1:1 or overscan mode instead of forcing all customers to watch imperfect images because some customers may receive imperfect broadcasts. This is just too much red color in this logic for me.

I buy a set in this price range not only for my needs today but also for the needs that may arise during next 5 – 10 yrs. While I could use VGA today I will need HDMI tomorrow. I would say that the chances are about 100% that HDMI will be needed during 2007 already.

Samsung and Sony own together the plant that produces semiconductor panel used in TV sets sold by respective vendor. Sony does right on digital (well almost right) but do not handle analog properly. Samsung does the opposite. Do you think this is a coincidence? I don’t. If it isn’t then this may be a case violating the antitrust laws.

pixelswim

12-09-06, 07:18 AM

The 1:1 discussion started in this thread last spring. Now that I've had a 96D for a while (my first entry into the world of HD) I'm struck by how one has to have a sense of humor about these things. Old CRTs, new HD panels and game consoles all have in common that they are like little puppet stages trying to bring entertainment and fun into your house and your life.

As time goes by they get a tiny bit better. If you study them too closely it all breaks down -- I mean if you really stop to look at it, a crudely rendered little robotic man with a picture of a machine gun -does- in fact require you to suspend reality for a while and use your imagination, right? If you're looking at a beautiful outdoor scene on your 1080p and it seems real, that's wonderful and part of the illusion, but can still be shattered by realizing you are on the couch watching a TV!

It's not just 1:1 edging, or banding or clouding, it's any time you get too serious -- if you move in too close to any type of screen and get picky then it all breaks down and you realize how crude the starndards are, how crude the -have- to be for an average person to be able to afford the technology.

1080p with faster response time etc. is pretty exciting for U.S. TV but it's all relative. In medical imaging I think they were moving on past 2048 a long time ago, admittedly mostly for fixed images. On my 96D I get a kick out of watching the autofocusers do their thing on the big digital cameras the broadcasters use. Watching the evening news has become more entertaining as you watch the splicing together of all the different cameras they've bought over the years which have huge differences in resolution and quality. Even better, you have to laugh at all the glitches in people's makeup and the tacky stage equipment - it's downright funny. But it just underscores the fact that it's all a "puppet stage" for your entertainment.

OK, sorry for the interruption, everyone can get back to being upset about the loss of an edge pixel now. :D

Wiretwister

12-09-06, 08:18 AM

I couldn't agree with you more Pixelswim.

But feel free to carry on with the debate untill your little fingers fall off from typing :rolleyes:

chappy16775

12-09-06, 01:16 PM

OK, sorry for the interruption, everyone can get back to being upset about the loss of an edge pixel now. :D

We're members of AVSForum....that's what we do....

;)

lgascoig

12-10-06, 12:24 AM

I have a 96D sitting in the box in my living room (just got delivered) and I assumed it would play back a 1080p picture properly, it says it will on the box. Now I come on here and find it's losing part of the picture?!??!

So if I connect any HDMI source like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD which is outputing 1080i or 1080p my picture is going to be hosed? It's not clipping the image, it's actually distorting it by scaling it correct?

Darn. I might have to take it back to Best Buy and pick up the Sharp or the Sony... It's a shame I was in the store today and I think the Samsung looks the best, but if they aren't giving me the right picture I just don't think I can live with it.

jlohrenz

12-10-06, 10:31 AM

colinp

12-10-06, 10:55 AM

You should try it out. Don't bias your tastes on this forum. I have a 4696d and I love the picture. The only issue currently is with input from a PC display. I'm running 1080p via HDMI from my PS3 and the image is breathtaking.

This is a great set. Just because 75% of this thread is about overscan does not mean it is a bad display.

I agree 1000%. I believe people begin to read too much about this overscan issue. Every brand seems to have some kind of issue. I have a 4695 and I couldn't be happier. The images on some of these shows are breathtaking, to steal your word. Most people don't know what overscan is, nor will they be able to tell the difference. Let YOUR eyes be the best judge.

Enjoy your tv.

TCMB

12-10-06, 01:24 PM

I've read through more than half of this thread, and did all my research, finally pulled the trigger on the 4096D yesterday.

The PQ is quite stunning out of the box. Played Star Wars using my upconverting Toshiba through HDMI and it was fantastic. Also played with the ATSC tuner using a powered antenna, and managed to pull in 30 channels!!, although only 4 or 5 were HD.

I'll soon be calbrating it with Avia, so I'm sure the picture will be even better.

You can't go wrong with this tv. So many inputs, cable card ready, atsc tuner, 1080p over VGA, Component, HDMI, this tv is pretty much future-proof for many years to come.

I intend to hook up my HTPC using VGA, so no overscan worries for me. What is probably best is the 1080p over all the inputs though. Some of the top 1080p LCDs can't even do that.

mhakman

12-10-06, 04:53 PM

We're members of AVSForum....that's what we do....

;)
Exactly, therefore I’ll continue my writing. I will however adapt to the broader interpretation of being on topic initiated by Pixelswim in #3090 above.

In every game there are 2 sides playing against each other. In the game called Market these sides are known as Consumers and Producers. Members of this forum in general and this thread in particular are supposed to be Consumers (otherwise this thread would be meaningless). As long as Consumers are playing against Producers, the game continues. The moment Consumers start defending Producer’s positions, the game ends.

The objectives of this game for Consumers are better and less expensive products. The opposite is true for Producers. For the society as a whole the objectives are a balance between the two sides and facilitation of information flow between the parties in both directions. The overall aim is to make life better for the public. For some people better means cooler, heftier, more colorful. For others better means more educated, more intelligent, more enlightened, and more aware.

Whatever your definition of “better” or “more” is, you won’t get better or more from Producers if you stop pushing them because their aim is to give you as little as possible to the highest possible price. There is nothing wrong with that – this is their role as businesses. Our role must then be to get as much as possible to the lowest possible price.

Therefore it is very sad to observe that some of us, consumers, forgot who they are and play by producer’s rules. If you feel that everything is alright with your Sammy (Sony, Sharp, etc) then why are you here? Why don’t you sit in front of that expensive piece of black plastic, get your kicks and aren’t happy?

Some of us here, who see beyond that, who recognize the difference between colorful glass beads and gold, and who don’t allow anyone to put the bridle on them, are trying to accomplish something. And we aren’t asking for much – just a few pixels more and/or that the specification agrees with what the product does. Why do you, other consumers on this thread, object so much to that? If you aren’t consumers but producers then you should say so and you will be excused.

Padrino

12-10-06, 05:59 PM

Also there are no good reasons not to map 1:1 but there are plenty to do so. It is not in any way more difficult or expensive to produce a set with 1:1 mapping compared to overscanning and scaling. In fact 1:1 mapping is the simplest way to display the signal. So why don’t they do it? You tell me please.

Spreading around rumors about a fix without actually delivering it only strengthens my feeling of being cheated.

The reason they do it is history. Overscan has been around for a very long time. For HD purists I am sure its should be killed immediately but there are problems with that. Much of the image data around the edge of the video signal was (in the past) not expected to appear on the screen. If sudenly all overscan is gone you will see some strange things you were not expecting. Data which looks like video noise for things like closed caption and other data services.

In my mind, the absolut best solution would be a user-selectable option to enable 2% overscan or to turn it off. And even better if its per-input. I believe the Sony XBR 2/3 may even have that option. If that is more important than other factors there are ways to get it.

Will overscan go away, yes eventually and we will all be happier for it. Its just that TV mfgs have to deal with the fact that its not. For this TV they chose one option (to leave it in) which many other mfgs have done. I just don't think this TV should be singled out when talking about this problem.

Yes 1:1 is optimal, and I want the option too. I just don't think its a deal breaker when looking to buy an LCD TV. At least not today.

skeptikp

12-10-06, 07:04 PM

Ok, after reading the forums for the last four months and gathering up as much money as I could, I took the leap yesterday and bought a 6070HD from *******. The price was the best I could find at an Authorized Pioneer Dealer and they were running a weekend special, so I bit. Now I am concerned about shipping. Delevery is curbside, so what should I do to make certain that the beasty is not damaged when it arrives? Also, has anybody had bad luck with *******?

skeptikp

12-10-06, 07:05 PM

Hmmmm. I see they starred out my refernce to 1 Call - which is what I was wanting to ask about

JudgeSmails

12-10-06, 09:52 PM

Anyone here mount this Sammy over a fireplace/in an elevated position? I am very interested in this model and plan on (eventually) mounting my next TV over the fireplace. I'd like to hear if anyone has done this, and if so, how the picture looks as a result. Thanks!

JS

mhakman

12-11-06, 08:21 PM

The reason they do it is history. Overscan has been around for a very long time. For HD purists I am sure its should be killed immediately but there are problems with that. Much of the image data around the edge of the video signal was (in the past) not expected to appear on the screen. If sudenly all overscan is gone you will see some strange things you were not expecting. Data which looks like video noise for things like closed caption and other data services.

In my mind, the absolut best solution would be a user-selectable option to enable 2% overscan or to turn it off. And even better if its per-input. I believe the Sony XBR 2/3 may even have that option. If that is more important than other factors there are ways to get it.

Will overscan go away, yes eventually and we will all be happier for it. Its just that TV mfgs have to deal with the fact that its not. For this TV they chose one option (to leave it in) which many other mfgs have done. I just don't think this TV should be singled out when talking about this problem.

Yes 1:1 is optimal, and I want the option too. I just don't think its a deal breaker when looking to buy an LCD TV. At least not today.
I cannot agree.

First because Sammy doesn’t overscan on analog inputs where you can talk about a history at all, and where probability of these strange things does exist. Sammy overscans on HDMI which is a completely new technology without a history and without those strange problems around.

Secondly, SMPTE which stands for Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers of which Samsung is a sustaining member defines clearly in the document “SMPTE 274M STANDARD for Television 1920 x 1080 Image Sample Structure, Digital Representation and Digital Timing Reference Sequences for Multiple Picture Rates” how the signal is to be transmitted and also its contents and format. The standard explicitly says that for both digital and analog transmission any ancillary information should be transmitted outside 1920x1080 area. The signal shall consist of 2200x1125 pixels of which 1920x1080 shall be used for image information. In addition, for analog signal or for multiple digital blanking operations in an analog-digital-analog environment it defines so called clean aperture of 1888x1062 pixels in the center of the 1920x1080 area. Neither of these are applicable to HDMI connected DVD player, computer, or other device. In other words Samsung violates the standard that it signed to as a member of this organization.

Third, even if Samsung did choose to use overscan on HDMI but not on analog ports (why?) then they should clearly state that the set displays 1888x1062 pixels, not 1920x1080 as they do.

Therefore Samsung uses overscan on digital input where there is lowest possible probability of those artifacts and displays full 1:1 mapped signal on analog inputs where there is higher probability of those artifacts. Why?

Because I believe that Samsung engineers are intelligent people I seek for an explanation somewhere else, which leads me to my observation described in #3089 above.

Also as you write, Sony has an option to turn off overscan but even then it displays only 1916 horizontal pixels by collapsing first 3 at the left edge and last 3 at the right edge to one. Sony doesn’t handle full HD signal on analog ports at all. For example, using VGA it displays a small maximum 1360x768 1:1 mapped image in the center of screen. Instead of 40 inch Sony you can buy much smaller 28 inch panel with a resolution of 1366x768 to get the same picture and pay a fraction of what Sony takes.

Because Sony managed to turn off the overscan on HDMI then it can’t be that difficult to do. Then why do we hear a lot of unverifiable rumors about a fix instead of an official statement from Samsung? The moment they officially promise 1:1 HDMI fix I will order the set if I don’t have another one by that time yet.

You are quite right there are LCD TV’s that display full 1:1 mapped 1920x1080 images from all inputs, analog and digital. The newest full HD set from LG is one of these. You are also right that for me this feature is a non-negotiable requirement. This is because I need 1:1 analog today but I will need both 1:1 analog and 1:1 HDMI tomorrow. So will most of the users even if they don’t see it right now.

tmeader

12-11-06, 08:40 PM

First because Sammy doesn’t overscan on analog inputs where you can talk about a history at all, and where probability of these strange things does exist. Sammy overscans on HDMI which is a completely new technology without a history and without those strange problems around.

By "analog input", do you mean only the VGA input? Because if not, your information is incorrect. The Samsung most certainly does overscan on all inputs on the 96D line. On the 5296D I had, all inputs (composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI) had a roughly 2-4% overscan.

1080p gottahavit

12-11-06, 10:16 PM

DeadPixelBuddy

12-11-06, 10:25 PM

I hope that firmware is the one we've been waiting for. Do keep us posted on any changes that firmware provides.

gmanrique

12-11-06, 11:08 PM

Thanks for sharing and please continue to do so, we really appreciate it.

One comment to all the people saying the overscan is an overrated issue. I am not a videophile by any means and despite how much I like the image on my new TV (LN-S4696), specially the HD channels, I can tell you this: Samsung is offering these sets as full 1080p TVs and they are not. Why you ask? because a 1080p source is not displayed as such. It is not doing what it is supposed to do. Regardless of history and the reasons why oversan has been there before, it is simple, 1080p should be that, nothing more, nothing less. The fact that it takes a 1080p input, cuts 2-5% of the edges, and then stretchs it on a 1920*1080 pixels area sounds like a stupid thing to do. Seriously. So, if the image is lovely, but it could be better, then give us the better one. If you are supposed to be paid 1 million bucks, and then receive only $950k, it is good, and better than having nothing at all, but the fact remains: you should get the full million, and it would be better than $950K.

I received a firmware upgrade by mail today from Samsung. It was in the form of a WinRAR ZIP archive file name "usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005" burned on a CD. The tech said that it was provided by a Samsung engineer in Korea. He also provided instructions for installation. I asked him if the firmware upgrade would be provided to TV owners on the Samsung website and he replied "This firmware is only available to our authorized Techs. We cannot post it on our website because if the firmware is not installed properly it can be held against the customer and warranty may be void". On that note even though he has supposedly provided the firmware upgrade I will not likely attempt to install it on my own but I will be bringing my correspondence and the firmware upgrade provided to the attention of tech support at BB.

rleggs

12-11-06, 11:12 PM

can someone explain why when i have the set in dynamic mode...i can see ghosting on hd channels when changing the channels?...it happens only in dynamic mode and only in hd channels?...

thanks

chappy16775

12-12-06, 12:53 AM

I received a firmware upgrade by mail today from Samsung. It was in the form of a WinRAR ZIP archive file name "usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005" burned on a CD. The tech said that it was provided by a Samsung engineer in Korea. He also provided instructions for installation. I asked him if the firmware upgrade would be provided to TV owners on the Samsung website and he replied "This firmware is only available to our authorized Techs. We cannot post it on our website because if the firmware is not installed properly it can be held against the customer and warranty may be void". On that note even though he has supposedly provided the firmware upgrade I will not likely attempt to install it on my own but I will be bringing my correspondence and the firmware upgrade provided to the attention of tech support at BB.

Wow...interesting. What were the instructions he gave you on installation of this firmware? Do you load it onto a USB key and then insert it to the USB socket?

Padrino

12-12-06, 01:25 AM

I cannot agree.
First because Sammy doesn’t overscan on analog inputs where you can talk about a history at all, and where probability of these strange things does exist. Huh???

I did not read much further because your first statement was completely false. I don't even think is was a sentence :D

However, I agree that keeping overscan on the HDMI input is a bit backwards. And I suppose this is why the firmware fix only applies to that source. Have you called Samsung and asked for this fix. Maybe this will fix it. I don't know if they charge or what but you should find out.

And, for all those screaming for 1080p 1:1 mapping... I am on your side, really I am. And I would like a setting for 1:1. I just don't think it should prevent most people from considering this series of TVs. The fix that some Samsung tech are doing is only for HDMI I believe which leaves Component still stuck with overscan. Still, I suppose it better than nothing but I am not going to lose sleep over it.

Padrino

12-12-06, 01:44 AM

I received a firmware upgrade by mail today from Samsung. It was in the form of a WinRAR ZIP archive file name "usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005" burned on a CD. The tech said that it was provided by a Samsung engineer in Korea. He also provided instructions for installation. I asked him if the firmware upgrade would be provided to TV owners on the Samsung website and he replied "This firmware is only available to our authorized Techs. We cannot post it on our website because if the firmware is not installed properly it can be held against the customer and warranty may be void". On that note even though he has supposedly provided the firmware upgrade I will not likely attempt to install it on my own but I will be bringing my correspondence and the firmware upgrade provided to the attention of tech support at BB.

Why would a Samsung tech just send you the software if it Samsung does not want people installing it on there own? I don't understand? If you messed up the install would you be stuck?

sammyLCD

12-12-06, 10:57 AM

we should start a class action lawsuit to samsung for false advertising.

Advertising 1080P and giving us 1050P... or whatever.

So who's a lawyer?? :cool:

JudgeSmails

12-12-06, 11:45 AM

Look here for some info. the first is: plasma tv buying guide (url blocked)
http://www.*****.com/plasmatvreviews/plasmatv-fireplace.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_1000472_plasmaTV-fireplace-hang.html

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/plasma-over-the-fireplace.html

google for more

I appreciate the help, but not quite what I was looking for. I know how to hang it, I want to know how this particular TV looks when elevated. I was curious if anyone has this particular Samsung LCD elevated and if so, how does the picture look?

Thanks.

JS

jlohrenz

12-12-06, 12:10 PM

I have mine elevated above our fireplace with an angled SANUS stand. I can adjust the pitch up to 12 degrees.

I think the picture image looks great from all available viewing angles in my setting.

JudgeSmails

12-12-06, 12:47 PM

I have mine elevated above our fireplace with an angled SANUS stand. I can adjust the pitch up to 12 degrees.

I think the picture image looks great from all available viewing angles in my setting.

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! If you don't mind, please let me know which stand you use. Thanks again.

JS

jlohrenz

12-12-06, 01:24 PM

I used this: Sanus OmniMount VMPL/S (the /S is for the silver, otherwise it also comes in black)

It came with all of the hardware necessary to mount on brick, drywall, etc... Was easy to put up and is very sturdy. I got it at Best Buy, but I know they are available everywhere.

My mantle is about 2 feet above my fireplace, and the base of my TV is about 1 foot above the mantle.

mhakman

12-12-06, 07:41 PM

By "analog input", do you mean only the VGA input? Because if not, your information is incorrect. The Samsung most certainly does overscan on all inputs on the 96D line. On the 5296D I had, all inputs (composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI) had a roughly 2-4% overscan.

I was referring to VGA and component only because composite and S-video are not that interesting for HD. According to information that I have, a source using component input may be set up for 1:1 mapping. This information is from British AV Forums where there is a long thread about Sammy sold in Europe as F71 series. If that information is incorrect then I apologize and thank you for the correction. If your information is correct then it would make even easier for me to skip current Sammy sets.

Huh???

I did not read much further because your first statement was completely false. I don't even think is was a sentence :D

Well, not all thinking creatures are thinking enough or right :D Could you however think of specifying exactly what was false in the sentence taking into the account above comment please?

However, I agree that keeping overscan on the HDMI input is a bit backwards. And I suppose this is why the firmware fix only applies to that source. Have you called Samsung and asked for this fix. Maybe this will fix it. I don't know if they charge or what but you should find out.

A lot of people from US, UK, France, Holland, and Australia did that and the answer they got is that Samsung doesn’t have knowledge of this problem and that no fix is available. In some cases people say that the answer was “Samsung is taking this issue seriously and is working on the problem” but this could mean anything from a fix to intensified marketing.

And, for all those screaming for 1080p 1:1 mapping... I am on your side, really I am. And I would like a setting for 1:1. I just don't think it should prevent most people from considering this series of TVs. The fix that some Samsung tech are doing is only for HDMI I believe which leaves Component still stuck with overscan. Still, I suppose it better than nothing but I am not going to lose sleep over it.
Until the fix is available I think people should do exactly that.

we should start a class action lawsuit to samsung for false advertising.

Advertising 1080P and giving us 1050P... or whatever.

So who's a lawyer?? :cool:
Perhaps this is the place to go to SAMSUNG AGREES TO PLEAD GUILTY (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/press_releases/2005/212002.htm)

mhakman

12-12-06, 08:00 PM

I received a firmware upgrade by mail today from Samsung. It was in the form of a WinRAR ZIP archive file name "usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005" burned on a CD. The tech said that it was provided by a Samsung engineer in Korea. He also provided instructions for installation. I asked him if the firmware upgrade would be provided to TV owners on the Samsung website and he replied "This firmware is only available to our authorized Techs. We cannot post it on our website because if the firmware is not installed properly it can be held against the customer and warranty may be void". On that note even though he has supposedly provided the firmware upgrade I will not likely attempt to install it on my own but I will be bringing my correspondence and the firmware upgrade provided to the attention of tech support at BB.
This sounds very good if it is true. To let others verify could you please upload the fix and instructions into some public server? If you don't know of such server then please tell me and I will give you a link.

BTW, technician’s comment would suggest that you are one of their authorized Techs. Are you? If not then the whole thing looks very suspicious. If the fix is real and technician’s statement is true, then by making a CD copy and sending it to you he broke a number of company rules, probably enough to get fired.

Fish Chris

12-12-06, 09:01 PM

Very interesting. I actually bought a 46" 1080p JVC which, in "Native" screen mode, will show the entire picture, edge to edge, without any 'clipping' whatsoever. However, as some of the other posters above mentioned, this often leads to unwanted edge artifacts.... or, more often than not, a very thin strip of screen around the inside edge of the frame, without picture.
Therefore, after trying to deal with the "Native" mode for a few days, I have ended up with my TV set to "Full Native" pretty much permanently. With my JVC, "Full Native" mode clips just a tiny bit of the picture.... less than 5%, but just enough to remove those unwanted edge artifacts, plus, it insures that every sq centimter of my screen has picture on it.

I think I have to agree with the posters who have asked for a fully variable zoom, so I could fine tune my picture to have virtually no clipping, but no visible edge artifacts either.

Peace,
Fish

PS, My stepfather just bought a Samsung LN-S4695D, but hasn't gotten it hooked up to HD yet. When he does, and if he has anything good or bad to say about it, I will probably post that info here for him, for your thoughts and advice.

Riverside_Guy

12-13-06, 11:35 AM

Interesting Fish, I've seen a number of "comments" claiming that digital source material didn't have the edge crawlies... something I took with a huge grain. I take it "Full Native" means with overscan, right?

1080p gottahavit

12-13-06, 06:13 PM

This sounds very good if it is true. To let others verify could you please upload the fix and instructions into some public server? If you don't know of such server then please tell me and I will give you a link.

BTW, technician’s comment would suggest that you are one of their authorized Techs. Are you? If not then the whole thing looks very suspicious. If the fix is real and technician’s statement is true, then by making a CD copy and sending it to you he broke a number of company rules, probably enough to get fired.

He asked me if I was technically inclined in an email and I responded yes of course so he sent me the CD. You're right about the risk he is taking and I'm a little concerned with posting the fix until I see what it actually does. The tech was not sure if it would fix the overscan issue but assured me that it was a recent firmware upgrade from a Samsung engineer in Korea. I will attempt to get some resolution with BB and if successful I will post the upgrade file and instructions.

mhakman

12-13-06, 08:13 PM

mhakman

12-13-06, 08:22 PM

He asked me if I was technically inclined in an email and I responded yes of course so he sent me the CD. You're right about the risk he is taking and I'm a little concerned with posting the fix until I see what it actually does. The tech was not sure if it would fix the overscan issue but assured me that it was a recent firmware upgrade from a Samsung engineer in Korea. I will attempt to get some resolution with BB and if successful I will post the upgrade file and instructions.
To summarize current status:

1. We have your word that you have received a firmware upgrade from Samsung.
2. Nobody knows what the upgrade is for, not even Samsung.
3. You don’t want to post it so that others may be able to look into it.
4. Officially Samsung says they don’t know of any upgrades.

That is a classic FUD my friend.

mhakman

12-13-06, 08:33 PM

More good news gentlemen:

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6171535.stm)

gmanrique

12-13-06, 11:06 PM

More good news gentlemen: ...

LG is loosing money like crazy and they are being investigated for price fixing. Hmm, were they 'fixing' the prices too low?

chappy16775

12-14-06, 01:48 AM

Padrino

12-14-06, 03:19 AM

Well, not all thinking creatures are thinking enough or right :D Could you however think of specifying exactly what was false in the sentence taking into the account above comment please?

I was just saying that the TV does the same 2% overscan on the all the component and composite analog inputs. The only input in which the overscan is not done is VGA. And the fix (if you can even get it) only fixes HDMI. It does not eliminate overscan for the component or composite inputs.

Padrino

12-14-06, 03:32 AM

Well I must be one of the few that went to the store planning to get an XBR2 or XBR3 and got this samsung instead.

I looked at HD images on the 46" XBR2 and the 46" Samsung sitting right next to each other and took the sammy. I'm very happy with it and configured correctly it is a great display.

Almost the same experience for me. I went looking for the Sony but found this instead. Side by side I felt they looked the same and I actually like the styling of the Samsung better. It has a cleaner simpler look. The only thing about the Sony I liked better was the ability to save different mode and brightness setting for each input and have the TV remember all that.

Still I walked out with Samsung because I simply liked it better. The extra money came in handy too :)

dizzy0113

12-14-06, 01:58 PM

I set up my 4095 today and I don't think I like the PC input so far. I'm no AV expert so I'll try to describe things the best I can.

First, I tried a DVI to HDMI cable and the resulting image was TERRIBLE. It looked like someone oversharpened the image in Photoshop. I also couldn't get the screen to be a perfect 1:1. It always overscanned or underscanned for some reason. A quick look in the manual revealed that the DVI/HDMI ports don't support PC input. I wonder if this applies to those new video cards that have built in HDMI ports.

Next, I tried VGA using a DVI/VGA adapter (my 7900GT only has dual DVI out). The image looked pretty good at first. I played Oblivion at 1920x1080 and it looked incredible.

Next I tried playing some video files through my PC. I got a lot of blocks and banding in downloaded divx videos and in the Microsoft HD demo wmvs. I'm not sure if it's the VGA connection or just the videos, but scenes that have a big gradient (like a sunset) look pretty bad. Fadeouts or crossfades between scenes seem to be especially bad.

I put in the Lion King DVD to compare between my computer output and my Oppo 970HD output and the OPPO definitely looks better. The computer output has blocks and banding in areas where it transitions from dark to light or vice versa, but it wasn't as bad as the Microsoft HD demo videos.

I'm considering returning the s4095d to get the Sharp 37d90u (37" 1080p). It has DVI input.
Found this from way back on page 34. I believe the 4095 is basically the same as the 4096 as far as overscan and quality, just a newer model with cablecard and firewire or usb port.

So igowerf if you are still around, did you end up swap'n the 4095 for the 37d90u sharp?

Riverside_Guy

12-14-06, 02:47 PM

Almost the same experience for me. I went looking for the Sony but found this instead. Side by side I felt they looked the same and I actually like the styling of the Samsung better. It has a cleaner simpler look. The only thing about the Sony I liked better was the ability to save different mode and brightness setting for each input and have the TV remember all that.

Still I walked out with Samsung because I simply liked it better. The extra money came in handy too :)

Ha, my first hands on was setting up my sisters 40" XBR1. Spent a few weeks using and playing with it. Got the Sammie (host of reasons, 500 bucks less at the time, it switched channels far faster, the UI was much better, AND it looked (the set, not the picture) 100% better). I thought I had an issue with my Sammie, so I recorded some content to my DVR and checked it on my set and the Sony. Identical. Not side by side, but I still feel both delivered an extremely similar, wonderful picture.

BUT, I CAN customize brightness, contrast, color etc. in each of the 4 "picture settings" and have them retained. AND I can assign one of those 4 sets of settings to an input and have it retained.

yungintl

12-14-06, 04:58 PM

what kind of upconverting player seems to work best with this set?

mhakman

12-14-06, 07:35 PM

and that's good news because?

LG is loosing money like crazy and they are being investigated for price fixing. Hmm, were they 'fixing' the prices too low?

Ironical “good” means “bad”, doesn’t it? The current case, if true, would strengthen my questions posed earlier in this thread. If they can play undercover concerning price-fixing then why couldn’t they do the same concerning “complementary” functional limitations?

I was baffled by LG being in this group too because, as you say, LG’s prices are somewhat lower than the others and some of their sets support 1920x1080 1:1 on analog and digital inputs.

However the current case isn’t directly about TV sets but about semiconductor panels that may be used in these sets, and it concerns alleged price-fixing during 2003 and 2004. Here is a direct quote from TG Daily, December 14, 2006 13:56 by Humphrey Cheung.

The world's largest manufacturers of LCD displays are being investigated for alleged price-fixing. Authorities from the United States Justice Department and their counterparts in Japan, Korea and Europe are looking into whether LCD companies colluded to raise prices during 2003 and 2004.

One dozen companies are being investigated including South Korean companies Samsung and LG Phillips, Japan's Sharp and Seiko Epson and Taiwan's AUO Optronics, Chi Mei Optoelectronics and Chunghwa Picture Tubes. Shares of LG Philips and Sharp dropped sharply after news reports of the investigation began hitting the wires.

The companies face huge fines and executives could go to jail, if they are found guilty of price-fixing. You may remember the big DRAM price fixing scandal in which the US Justice Department netted more than $700 million in fines. Several executives from Infineon, Samsung, Elpida and Hynix were given four to eight months in prison.

1080p gottahavit

12-14-06, 08:59 PM

1080p gottahavit

12-14-06, 09:11 PM

To summarize current status:

1. We have your word that you have received a firmware upgrade from Samsung.
2. Nobody knows what the upgrade is for, not even Samsung.
3. You don’t want to post it so that others may be able to look into it.
4. Officially Samsung says they don’t know of any upgrades.

That is a classic FUD my friend.

I have uploaded to a public site an image of the instructions and the firmware upgrade zip file that I received from Samsung . They can be accessed with the following direct links:

usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip (http://www.eggdisk.com/files/136695_w2gi7/usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip)
http://www.eggdisk.com/files/136706_dmhex/Firmware%20upgrade%20instructions.jpg

I haven't had time to follow through with BB or an authorized Samsung service rep so maybe you or others with technical knowledge can take a look at it at least. I would be cautious and as suggested in an earlier post the Sanmsung Rep that sent me the upgrade by mail said that there may be warranty issues if it is not installed by an authorized service Tech. Hope this is helpful and not a waste of time!

gmanrique

12-14-06, 10:15 PM

Has anybody tried this, please...

I have uploaded to a public site an image of the instructions and the firmware upgrade zip file that I received from Samsung . They can be accessed with the following direct links:

usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip (http://www.eggdisk.com/files/136695_w2gi7/usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip)

I haven't had time to follow through with BB or an authorized Samsung service rep so maybe you or others with technical knowledge can take a look at it at least. I would be cautious and as suggested in an earlier post the Sanmsung Rep that sent me the upgrade by mail said that there may be warranty issues if it is not installed by an authorized service Tech. Hope this is helpful and not a waste of time!

furboo

12-14-06, 10:22 PM

I have uploaded to a public site an image of the instructions and the firmware upgrade zip file that I received from Samsung .
...
I would be cautious...

Ya think??? Definitely an understatment :eek:

Fish Chris

12-14-06, 11:32 PM

almost let this get past me !

First off, I must correct myself.... I hade previously said my TV had "Native" and "Full Native" modes.... but in fact, it has "Full" and "Full Native".

I have it pretty much set permanently to "Full" which does have just a tiny bit of overscan, but yes, when my TV is set to the "Full Native" mode, I get a tiny bit of unfilled screen around the edges of the picture, plus, sometimes the weird multi colored pixels or squigglies, or whatever you want to call them.

The source for these edge artifacts was just misc stuff on Discovery HD, and a couple other HD channels. Sometimes even within the same program, these artifacts would come and go..... But again, with my set "Full" has so little overscan / picture loss, that it's easier just to set it to this, and forget it.

And honestly, I can't see a difference in PQ between "Full" and "Full Native" anyway.

Peace,
Fish

chappy16775

12-14-06, 11:57 PM

I have uploaded to a public site an image of the instructions and the firmware upgrade zip file that I received from Samsung . They can be accessed with the following direct links:

usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip (http://www.eggdisk.com/files/136695_w2gi7/usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005.zip)
http://www.eggdisk.com/files/136706_dmhex/Firmware%20upgrade%20instructions.jpg

I haven't had time to follow through with BB or an authorized Samsung service rep so maybe you or others with technical knowledge can take a look at it at least. I would be cautious and as suggested in an earlier post the Sanmsung Rep that sent me the upgrade by mail said that there may be warranty issues if it is not installed by an authorized service Tech. Hope this is helpful and not a waste of time!

OK come on - who's willing to be the first to try this out? !

krispykeith

12-15-06, 12:09 AM

Wow, this is very exciting even if it is merely a shot in the dark. Would this require a 4696 (in other words, a model with the side usb) or would this work with the 4695 and the service usb slot on the back?

I might be willing to try it if it would work on a 95.

chappy16775

12-15-06, 12:15 AM

I think it will work for any USB slot model. That's how they install new firmware.

Not sure what Step 8 means - enter at the factory mode?

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 02:59 AM

hehe 11mb zip seems kinda big for a firmware.
What model TV does this work for? I have a 4095.

Files are all dated 6/2/2006 and 6/22/2006, how new are these supposed to be?

spankynuts

12-15-06, 03:03 AM

My usb memory stick is itching to be inserted into to the back of my lns4095d. Who's gonna do this with me?

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 03:12 AM

I would, but I don't have a memory stick lol...
nor do I know what model this update is for.

But the files on the zip does have a version check so doubt it would just let you blindly overwrite the old firmware.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 03:32 AM

I did it!!! I don't see an option for 1:1 though, but 16:9 works widescreen instead of using wide fit with my HDMI cable connected to an HDR box. My firmware is now MODULE: T-MOS2AUS0-1005, DATE: 2006-06-22, MICOM: T-MOS2AUS5-1002.

It did fix the overscan problem. I will post pictures very soon.

I even got into factory mode and changed the hdmi 1080 delay to 0x10 to 0x50. I did this by pressing while the tv was off mute 1, 8, 2, then power on. Took a couple times, but I got it.

Some things I am noticing right off the bat.
1. Wide Fit is not an option anymore.
2. 16:9 works widescreen on hd channels only.
3. standard channels are not widescreen.

Other than that.. I don't know what I just did, but I hope it was worth it.
I will keep you guys updated if you're interested. I will answer any questions.

TheOneAndOnly

12-15-06, 03:54 AM

Was the firmware for a LN-S4696D? I took a look at it with a hex viewer and it looks like it might be GNU linux based. I know there are decompilers out there that someone might be able to get more info out of the BIOS. I just thought I would put that out there.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 04:00 AM

I used it on my LNS4095D, but I believe it is universal with both the 4095, 4695, 4096, 4696 sets.

TheOneAndOnly

12-15-06, 04:04 AM

What was your version info before the flash?

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 04:11 AM

As along as its 1:1 over hdmi. Guess I need to go buy a usb memory stick lol. Been meaning to get one anyways.

So non digital channels are 4:3 automatic now? And can't wide fit stretch them to 16:9 is what you're saying.

My current version is :
T-MOS2AUS0-1011, DATE: 2006-07-21, MICOM:T-MOS2AUS5-1002

Seems my current firmware is newer than the update hrm, but I get major overscan using my PC. Wonder if I should do the update or not now hehe...

Guess shall wait for you to post some pics. Got any of it hooked up to your pc?

Also my current firmware has a hdmi delay option, set to 0x0 atm, from peeking at hte service menu.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 04:18 AM

Well only HD channels are widescreen and I think I have a total of 5 HD channels so the rest of the channels are 4:3. My firmware version was dated 8-22-06. I forget what exactly what the firmware was.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 04:51 AM

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/5745/015fp7.jpg

Here is an HD channel set on 16:9

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2103/016iw7.jpg

Here is the same movie on a standard digital channel using still on the 16:9 setting, but scaled to a 4:3 ratio.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3848/017rl1.jpg

The newely installed firmware is older than what I had on it.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/527/022gw9.jpg

The Wide Fit, and zoom options are gone.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5128/012ks9.jpg

This image was halfway cut off from the right and bottom. So it did fix the overscan.

Overall, I am unsure if this was a good move or not. Let me know what you guys think.

neonsnow

12-15-06, 04:52 AM

spankynuts

12-15-06, 04:56 AM

Yeah, I am beginning to think this is just an old firmware... But I'm fine with it for now. The whole process was so simple though. So when a newer firmware is released I will be ready with memory stick.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 05:19 AM

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7084/030hz4.jpg

Oh, I almost forgot to show you guys the secrect menu. I would strongly advise you don't go changing anything. There is a lot of stuff though.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/567/031ql1.jpg

Here is what I think is the Factory Mode. I found it by going to option in the main menu. This is where I changed HDMI 1080P DELAY from 0x10 to 0x50... not sure what it did.

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 06:26 AM

Well, I never used the wide fit and zoom options anyways.
Probably is an old firmware though, maybe the old ones didn't have overscan but they added it for some reason, who knows hehe.

But yeah, someday when they do release a newer firmware, can easily just reflash it, so no harm in using this if it does indeed fix overscan. At least you have shown this does indeed work.

Can you hook up your pc to the tv and see if the start button and clock etc are cut off? That would be the easiest way to see if overscan is gone or not.

So your hdmi delay was set to 0x10? I wonder what this option actualy does hehe. Mine is set to 0x0, but could be 0x10 is default for this firmware.

Ps, I have 100 hours on my panel now! Kinda neat they track that lol.

DeadPixelBuddy

12-15-06, 08:52 AM

Although this firmware may seem older than some of ours, perhaps it just shows at least that overscan on these sets can be corrected quite easily. I am also interested in seeing how this firmware reacts with a computer connected through HDMI.... please oh please let it have 1:1!!! :D

To those that have done the firmware update, any other issues other than losing the picture modes for standard def? (Or does the removal of zoom, etc, also affect HD channels.) I wonder, although you may not be able to access zoom/wide fit in your options, perhaps you can allow you cable box to do that. In my Motorola 6412, you can make 4:3 stretched, etc. That can help those interested in stretching their standard def material.

Spankynuts, would you mind just making a quick step by step for dummies (like myself) for this process? Do you just put the entire zip file, or unzip it and put those files on the usb drive?

chappy16775

12-15-06, 10:24 AM

Should we start a new thread with all this info (from start to finish on the "fix")?

Pretty exciting.

So can you see "border" lines on all 1:1 broadcasts now?
Need to check the PC connection...

D92Mike

12-15-06, 10:29 AM

chappy16775

12-15-06, 11:20 AM

What we need is a current version of the firmware from Samsung so that we can go back to the "old" firmware if this new one is not perfect.....

Anyone have that?

spankynuts

12-15-06, 12:37 PM

TheOneAndOnly

12-15-06, 12:39 PM

D92Mike

12-15-06, 12:45 PM

I have a question about how you guys are hooking the PC up. I have a quadro fx 3000 and it has the dual DVI connections. Are you guys experiencing overscan with the DVI or HDMI cables? I would glady hookup the PC to show you the results if I know what to use. I also don't have an DVI>HDMI cable, I use HDMI>HDMI on my TV and HD DVR, but I do have a DVI>DVI cable. Let me know.

Spankynuts,

Most of us are chomping at the bit to see what a DVI-HDMI looks like with this firmware applied. As I know you don't have that cable, perhaps others willing to "take the plunge" can report their findings. Also, a previous poster asked about loading the software on the USB drive; do you copy the contents of the usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005 folder or copy the folder with the contents? Thanks.

TheOneAndOnly

12-15-06, 12:49 PM

Good places to buy cables are monoprice and bluejeanscable.

You will need a DVI to HDMI to connect your computer to your TV.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 01:29 PM

1. Unzip the contents of the usb_T-MOS2AUS0-1005 folder onto the memory stick. Your memory stick should look like this:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5374/contentsyy3.gif

2. Since I am using digital on my tv you have to change to analog. Simply press source on your remote to get to analog channels. I only have the HDMI hooked up on my tv so when I press source my TV goes to snow.

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5080/033uk1.jpg

3. Insert USB stick on TV Set where it says SERVICE. I used this crappy 128MB GPX mp3 player. It has a battery though so I'm not sure if that makes a difference except for barely fitting into the tv. My usb stick has a little red led on it to show me that the tv recognized it.

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/7752/038ng5.jpg

As you can see it barely fits.

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/7440/034gn3.jpg

4. Push Mute 7, 8, 9 then EXIT

5. The Soft Upgrade Bar is displayed on Screen. I believe mine started automatically, but you may have to press enter to start. This is a relatively fast process as I could not even get my camera ready to take pictures; it went from 0 - 100% within 30 seconds.

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3694/041jg2.jpg

6. When the firmware upgrade completes, the TV will turn off.

7. Remove your memory stick then power on your tv.

8. Turn the tv off again. Press Mute 1, 8, 2, then power on.
The Factory screen will show.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7084/030hz4.jpg

9. Go to option and either -> or Enter then HDMI 1080P Delay and change it from 0x10 to 0x50. This might take some time as you are going from 10 to 50 using the arrow keys on the remote.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/567/031ql1.jpg

10. When you are finished press Menu to return to the main menu then go to RESET and press enter. The TV will once again turn off.

11. The firmware is now MODULE: T-MOS2AUS0-1005, DATE: 2006-06-22, MICOM: T-MOS2AUS5-1002.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3848/017rl1.jpg

This process worked for me, but I cannot be held responsible if this doesn't work for you. Feel free to ask me any questions.

krispykeith

12-15-06, 01:44 PM

Spanky, not only do I have to give you serious kudos for doing the update...I have to compliment you even more on the amazing writeup. FANTASTIC WORK!

I am wondering...is there any chance that the hdmi delay setting is all you need to do? In other words, can I go into that menu without the firmware change? I would just be curious to find out what that setting does. I am at work or i would try.

1080p gottahavit

12-15-06, 01:58 PM

Spankynuts
Excellent summary of your adventures into firmware upgrades. Glad to hear we have confirmed some firmware version numbers. This may give us some leverage to ask Samsung for the most recent version. I understand that we have reports of as high as 1010? Interesting that this older version may not have an overscan problem.

spankynuts

12-15-06, 02:01 PM

You can get into that menu at any time. I did a google search and found a samsung technical guide and it told me that factory code. As other people mentioned, their settings are different (i.e. 0x0, 0x10, etc). I just got done talking to an entry level samsung technician and he said a tier 2 technician would be able to send me the latest firmware, but they are in a meeting here in good old Jersey. I thought the guy would say something like I voided my warranty, but he was actually really cool about it. The meeting should be over by now so I will let you guys know how that worked out. But, as for fiddling with that secret menu unless you start going nuts with changing settings you can always go back to it. Just be careful..

spankynuts

12-15-06, 02:18 PM

1080p gottahavit

12-15-06, 02:21 PM

Neonsnow
Do you have a confirmation on the firmware version 1019? I will be following up with a request to Samsung on what is the latest firmware version upgrade that is available to authorized service techs in North America.

1080p gottahavit

12-15-06, 02:30 PM

Sorry for double posting, but I just got done with a tier 2 technician and he has never heard of updating the firmware like that. He had no idea about overscan either... I'll just keep calling back until I get someone that's a little more samsung savy, but he did say they do not send out firmwares like that. Who knows.

This may be Sansung's policy but a Samsung rep sent me the older version referring to it as the most recent upgrade. I will be asking him for the latest version to overwrite that version. As you say keep trying!

spankynuts

12-15-06, 02:42 PM

If everyone can make calls to Samsung to send out new firmware we could get them to update the latest version for 1:1 support. Then when we get firmware can post and compare for the latest.

spankynuts, what was the number or email you used that lead you to getting firmware?

I just used the firmware on this forum that was posted by 1080p gottahavit (Thank you btw). You can find his post here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9175398&&#post9175398

On a side note: I just called again and they directed me to same tier 2 techy. This time he mentioned a firmware upgrade for the tv with the cable card (I have the lns4095d with no cable card). You guys may be able to get further with calling since you own either the 4096 or 4696.

buzzy_

12-15-06, 05:04 PM

That is a great writeup and photos. And it's big news that the firmware upgrade can be done with a USB flash drive - easy and smart approach.

Just to make it clear, though ... on the face of it, this firmware version could be an older version than is already installed - as spankynuts mentions.

Version on my 4095 is the same as macrosssdf1's:

T-MOS2AUS0-1011, DATE: 2006-07-21, MICOM:T-MOS2AUS5-1002

BTW:To see the firmware version on many Samsung TVs, follow these steps:

Turn on your TV.
Press the Menu button on your remote. The main menu appears.
Select Setup, and then press Enter. The Setup menu appears.
Select Function Help, and then press Enter.
Use the Up or Down arrow button on your remote to set Function Help to On, and then press the Enter button.
Leave Function Help selected and press the Info button on your remote. The TV displays the firmware version and in some cases the chassis number.
Note: Unless there is a general problem with the firmware for a TV, or a major change in broadcast protocols, Samsung does not offer firmware upgrades for its TVs.

chappy16775

12-15-06, 05:44 PM

The big question which remains is whether this firmware results in 1:1 for the PC via DVI-HDMI. It's PC users that are most affected by this prob...

*hoping someone can try it*

DeadPixelBuddy

12-15-06, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the great write-up Spanky! Now I just need to set some time aside so I can try out this firmware.

Hopefully soon we'll get an updated firmware to reflect the one supposedly in Korea that allows us to have the "Just Scan" option.

And I agree, we need someone to test this out on DVI-HDMI to be 100% sure that this corrects overscan.

buzzy_

12-15-06, 05:53 PM

The big question which remains is whether this firmware results in 1:1 for the PC via DVI-HDMI. It's PC users that are most affected by this prob...

*hoping someone can try it*So would you install an earlier version of the firmware, with no guarantee of being able to go back, to answer that question?

WilliamG

12-15-06, 06:41 PM

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 07:13 PM

I have a question completely unrelated to overscan. I'm thinking of picking up an LS-4095D and was wondering if there was any lag playing Playstation 2 games etc. A lot of TVs I've tried out had some kind of input lag, where you push a button on your controller and it takes a number of miliseconds (which throws off timing) to transfer the input to the TV.

Any response to this?

Thanks in advance! :)

0 lag whatsoever, playing ff12 through svga on the ps2, gears of war at 1080p on 360 on component, or games on my pc at 1920x1080 through the vga on my pc with 8800gtx. Dunno if any lag on hdmi, as overscan.

Gotta go get a usb flash drive, but gonna try using my external usb drive and see if it will read from that.

Btw tried setting the 1080p delay to 0x50, but it seems to do nothing.

Also it shows its only 1080i through hdmi at the service menu as well when i hook it up to my laptop.

chappy16775

12-15-06, 07:15 PM

So would you install an earlier version of the firmware, with no guarantee of being able to go back, to answer that question?

Ideally we'll have the new firmware too so we can go back. I'm trying to get a hold of a tech who can provide that. Shame that only 1 out of 10 techs actually know anything...

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 07:37 PM

well was only showing 1080i when running dual monitor, switching it to single it was 1080p @60hz..

updated the firmware with my external usb drive. It will set the 1080p delay to 0x10, which I set to 0x50 and reset.

Now it's autoprogramming etc, hopefuly it works....

Okay...hooked it up to my new pc....

And bleh...there's still overscan, no change at all..

Worse yet the picture is swimmy...that 1080p delay must make it suck...

Oh well, hopefuly someone can get us a real working firmware, that 1019? hopefuly.

Adjusting the 1080p delay got the picture clear again at least.

Oh well!

WilliamG

12-15-06, 08:59 PM

0 lag whatsoever, playing ff12 through svga on the ps2, gears of war at 1080p on 360 on component, or games on my pc at 1920x1080 through the vga on my pc with 8800gtx. Dunno if any lag on hdmi, as overscan.

Gotta go get a usb flash drive, but gonna try using my external usb drive and see if it will read from that.

Btw tried setting the 1080p delay to 0x50, but it seems to do nothing.

Also it shows its only 1080i through hdmi at the service menu as well when i hook it up to my laptop.

Thanks for the reply. I just got my PS3 today, so I'm hoping Blu-ray looks sweet at 1080p on this TV. I'll also be using this TV for my 360 and PS2/Wii, so hopefully this is the right choice, going from my Panasonic TH42UP ED plasma 42".

spankynuts

12-15-06, 09:18 PM

chappy16775

12-15-06, 09:50 PM

So are we concluding that the firmware 1005 does NOT eliminate overscan?

Bummer. Still, now we know how to do it when the proper firmware comes out...

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 09:53 PM

Sorry to hear that... I wish I could have saved you the trouble, but I didn't have that cable. So are you saying that changing the 0x10 to 0x50 made the picture swimmy? Did you change it back and get better results?

yeah, setting it to 0x0, or 0x10 got it sharp again. could also set it to like 0x4f and it would be sharp too. Just certain settings it would get all swimmy.

btw, viewing ota non hd tv, i can still zoom and widefit.

macrosssdf1

12-15-06, 11:37 PM

So are we concluding that the firmware 1005 does NOT eliminate overscan?

Bummer. Still, now we know how to do it when the proper firmware comes out...

yeah, did not correct the overscan for me at all, using dvi->hdmi cable from pc to tv.

Least I adjusted the colors and brightness some in the service menu. It's kinda lame you gotta hit reset to make the setting save sometimes. Is probably why the instructions say to hit reset when you are all done.

We'll just have to wait for someone to get lucky and obtain a newer firmware hehe.

newhdtv2006

12-16-06, 11:26 AM

av-novice

12-16-06, 11:46 AM

We'll just have to wait for someone to get lucky and obtain a newer firmware hehe.[/QUOTE]

The firmware in my 4095 is -1011 with a date of 2006-07-21, and it has between 2 and 3 percent overscan. Since there may be 19 or so versions of this firmware out there, it would be helpful if somehow we could get a list of what differences there are between each version. It appears calls to Samsung are not too helpful in this regard. Can anyone else find a source for this information?

av-novice

1080p gottahavit

12-16-06, 12:37 PM

We'll just have to wait for someone to get lucky and obtain a newer firmware hehe.

The firmware in my 4095 is -1011 with a date of 2006-07-21, and it has between 2 and 3 percent overscan. Since there may be 19 or so versions of this firmware out there, it would be helpful if somehow we could get a list of what differences there are between each version. It appears calls to Samsung are not too helpful in this regard. Can anyone else find a source for this information?

av-novice[/QUOTE]

I agree with your note, it seems that most TV owners have 1011 although there was one unconfirmed report of 1019 taken from a Korean website, "Justscan" version, reported by Neonsnow.

macrosssdf1

12-16-06, 04:00 PM

Hi, I am new to this site and was wondering if someone can clarify something for me? I have been reading about overscan on the LNS4696D with HDMI, and I was wondering if it overscan's just PCs hooked up by HDMI or anything hooked up by HDMI? I have just ordered this and expect delivery next week along with a Sony DVPNS75H upconverter DVD player that I expect too hook up via HDMI. Will the DVD be affected by overscan?

Thanks!

Everything through HDMI will have overscan, but if you're just watching dvd's you won't notice it at all I'm sure. It's just very noticible on PC's cause you can't see the start menu etc.

magic carpet

12-17-06, 06:34 AM

Unfortunately, also analog inputs (like component or s-video) have overscan... :(

MorrisonHiker

12-17-06, 12:21 PM

yungintl

12-17-06, 02:37 PM

macrosssdf1

12-17-06, 05:06 PM

so 0x50 looks better than 0x10?

no, 0x50 looks terrible. It makes it look like some weak signal.

There's overscan at 0x50 and 0x10 and 0x0, so it makes no diff. I set it back to 0x0.

Dunno why the instructions say to set it to 0x50 though...

Alenski

12-17-06, 06:52 PM

spankynuts, macrosssdf1, all,

I tried the firmware upgrade (downgrade?), trying to get rid of overscan on my HDMI input, with no luck at all. One thing I did notice is that the firmware update might not have been successful. Here are some details:

I bought my sammy 4095DX a couple weeks ago at BB. When I went into the service menu today, before the upgrade, it showed this:

T-MOS2AUS0-1012
T-MOS2AUS5-1002
2006-08-11

After the upgrade procedure it showed the same thing! :( Obviously something did not work, but I did see the progress bar, TV reset and all the symptoms mentioned in the procedure.

I wanted to use this TV as my main display for an HTPC. I thought that the VGA connection would be enough for most things but I am starting to worry that once I do get an HD video player (Bluray, HD-DVD) I will be forced to use HDMI (because of HDCP) and this overscan issue is simply not acceptable when displaying HTPC windows. Settling for analog or anything less than 1-1 mapping seems less acceptable to me today than when I first got the TV.

My current setup is a PC with a video card that has a DVI connector, a DVI-HDMI cable, using the HDMI input of the TV. The PC recognizes the TV and its native resolution, but the overscan is there.

I have been silently hanging on to the display and reading these forums in the hope that a firmware update can solve the issue. I am now thinking I might just have to return the TV while I still can, and wait for this whole thing to be sorted out before I buy it again, and trust me, I would buy it again if this overscan issue is resolved. If I do return it, I will still be willing to call Samsung and try to put some more pressure on them, so that they release official firmware that would support the advanced options we need.

If anyone has any idea what I might have done wrong during the firmware upgrade, comments are appreciated. And thanks to everyone who has been trying to solve this issue. :)

chappy16775

12-17-06, 06:56 PM

CrysDark

12-17-06, 11:16 PM

Thats not real 1080p though. I am also worried that blu-ray & HDDVD's are going to be encoded without regard to sammy's over scan.

TCMB

12-18-06, 10:18 AM

I looked through the service menu of my 4096, and found the firmware to be 1005 with the July date. This TV was purchased brand new a week ago! Also, I saw that the panel usage was at 166 hours!! WTF? I probably put on maybe 50 hours over the 10 days I've had it, where the heck did the other 116 hours come from? Could this be a refurbished panel?

chappy16775

12-18-06, 10:39 AM

Yeah mine was clocked at about 200 hours! They must "wear them in" a bit during testing. My Firmware was 6/22/06 and bought in Sept 06.

kwatch

12-18-06, 05:14 PM

How do you get into the service menu?

macrosssdf1

12-18-06, 07:34 PM

Tune into something with a signal

then turn off tv, then hit mute 1 8 2 power.

Wait like 10 sec and a menu should pop up.

ninjabutt

12-18-06, 07:51 PM

Sorry to hear that... I wish I could have saved you the trouble, but I didn't have that cable. So are you saying that changing the 0x10 to 0x50 made the picture swimmy? Did you change it back and get better results?

So does the older firmware correct overscan for all other sources besides a computer input through HDMI?

1080p gottahavit

12-18-06, 08:03 PM

MrFritz

12-18-06, 09:43 PM

If you guys check my posts back on page 103, you will see that I posted my firmware releases. To reiterate, I am now on my 4th Sammy 4696.

The first 2 had this firrmware release
S/N = AFQD3CFL900907Y for Sammy#2
FW: MODULE = T-MOSAUS0-1005
DATE = 2006-07-22
MICOM = T-MOSAUS5-1001

The last 2 had this firmware release:
S/N = AFQD3CFLB00598T for Sammy #4
FW: MODULE = T-MOSAUS0-1009
DATE = 2006-08-23
MICOM = T-MOSAUS5-1002

Can't talk about overscan. But I can confirm that these are the current "shipping" versions of the firmware for the 4696 (and presumably, the 4095, 4695 & 4096). If your firmware is 1011 or 1012, then I think it is safe to say that you do not have a Sammy 4095, 4695, 4096 or 4696.

Note the S/N's. It is probably the best clue as to the date of manufacture.

Fred

MorrisonHiker

12-18-06, 09:46 PM

MrFritz

12-18-06, 09:58 PM

Can someone confirm the 4096 has a QAM tuner (or the ability to watch unencrypted HDTV channels via cable without a CableCard)? I wrote Samsung and they said this model doesn't have a QAM tuner. I thought I saw a message here somewhere from someone who says they are watching the HD channels this way.

Samsung also told me that neither the 4095D or the 4096D are Energy Star compliant...yet the 4095D is listed on the Energy Star website. Does anybody know the real answer? Perhaps someone has one of these models and a way to measure the wattage used when in standby?

I was all so to order from Toshiba or Mitsubishi until I found out their TVs used 33 to 330 times as much electricity as the Energy Star models when in standby. When I saw the 4095D listed, I had my fingers crossed that the 4096D would be too...

I have to 4696 and can confirm that it does have a QAM tuner. Yes, you can watch unencrypted HDTV channels via cable without a box. But do keep in mind the following: 1) Your selection of chanels (if any) depends of your cable provider. And 2) The number of chanels available may be severly reduced as compared to service with a cable box/card. But, if you have over-the-air HD broadcasts, your QAM tuner will bring them in if you have an HD antenna.

1080p gottahavit

12-18-06, 11:48 PM

chappy16775

12-19-06, 01:17 AM

Tune into something with a signal

then turn off tv, then hit mute 1 8 2 power.

Wait like 10 sec and a menu should pop up.

BE CAREFUL in the service menu. Do not hit "Calibrate" or it will mess up your picture! (I learned the hard way).

pixelswim

12-19-06, 08:37 AM

I have to 4696 and can confirm that it does have a QAM tuner. Yes, you can watch unencrypted HDTV channels via cable without a box. But do keep in mind the following: 1) Your selection of chanels (if any) depends of your cable provider. And 2) The number of chanels available may be severly reduced as compared to service with a cable box/card. But, if you have over-the-air HD broadcasts, your QAM tuner will bring them in if you have an HD antenna.

I believe it is the ATSC tuner that is used for OTA. 256-QAM and 64-QAM are the modulation techniques used by cable operators to superimpose a maximum number of digital channels over the analog modulations coming through the cable. The 9xD series has 3 tuner circuits: NTSC, ATSC and QAM.

Note that there are threads in AVSForum where users discuss their success with various models of digital antennae. For the broadcasts where your ATSC circuit can lock in to a strong enough signal, you may be able to receive significantly higher megabit rates than the cable can deliver, leading to less macroblocking and other codec artifacts (eg. less blur in a football broadcast -- in HD football broadcasts you just have to watch the grass to see that current codecs can't keep up with fast motion.) The recent article "Not so High on High Definition" near the top of current AFSForum news has an excellent summary of what cable operators are doing - I recommend it.

[background: ATSC = Advanced Television Systems Committee -- ATSC digital broadcasts use 8-VSB modulation -- 8-VSB = 8-level Vestigial Sideband Modulation, a totally different way to modulate radio waves than QAM. Each method is suited to the characteristics of it's transmission medium.]

MrFritz's comments about channel selection are well taken -- in general, cable operators only unscramble when forced to by city councils. There is also the legitimate engineering stuff of outages, channel changes and periodic corruption of the PSIP data (digital metadata protocol - but that is another topic!)

Best! -pixelswim

TCMB

12-19-06, 10:11 AM

Riverside_Guy

12-19-06, 10:57 AM

The 9xD series has 3 tuner circuits: NTSC, ATSC and QAM.

Not really. 92's do NOT have a QAM truner, 96 HAS to (it has a cable card slot) but the 95 does not HAVE to have it. The 95 may have one.

buzzy_

12-19-06, 03:31 PM

From the Samsung FAQ site. This forum really needs a wiki in the second post like fatwallet, or something, where all the regular questions can get answered ONCE.

Question Does The LN-S4695D Have A Built-In QAM Tuner?

Attached File

Answer
The LN-S4695D does not have a built in QAM digital cable tuner. It has a built in ATSC digital tuner for over-the-air digital broadcasts and a built in standard NTSC analog tuner for analog over-the-air and cable broadcasts. To receive digital cable broadcasts, you would have to attach a digital cable set-top-box to the LN-S4695D. I doubt any of the xx95s have QAM tuners.

And I'm not sure it's safe to assume that cable card implies a QAM tuner. I think a cable card is just the descrambler and tuner that would be in a set top box. Also from the Samsung FAQ site:Digital Cable Ready TVs with CableCard have QAM compatible HDTV (ATSC) tuners.

bluedvl11

12-19-06, 04:11 PM

We'll have to wait for more firmware.
Just remember - with nVidia card drivers you can 'underscan' such that the whole screen fits on your Sammy. No real difference in quality except on small text if you're wordprocessing, etc.

I know how to get into the service menu. Can someone give step by step of how to perform a firmware upgrade. Do I need to hook up the tv to a internet source ? Any help would be appreciated.

Also I love the picture on my 4695d, but just recently read in the latest hdguru tests, this tv failed deinterlacing and 3:2 pulldown test. Does anyone know how bad ? I have a ps3 and haven't been that impressed with the blue ray movies, so far discovery hd looks the best of anything I have seen. I have more titles on the way, but shouldn't blueray look better, at least title like black hawk down?

MorrisonHiker

12-19-06, 04:47 PM

buzzy_

12-19-06, 06:09 PM

As far as the Energy Star thing goes, there's a statement in the Samsung FAQs that the 4x95 an the 4x96 are "identical" except for the minor differences already discussed. If one qualified, the other one really ought to.

DVD Freaky

12-19-06, 06:33 PM

I am not sure if I have uneven light bleeding from the left side of my 4695D...or whether it's just the limits of LCD technology. In very dark scenes, the left side of the set looks brighter than the right, particularly when there is a white object on the screen. Light just jumps off the white text or object on the left...but not on the right. I notice light peering out also from the top and bottom left corners of the screen. I do not notice this in bright scenes...only dark.

Would it help to "de-stress" the tv by laying it flat for a couple of hours? When I got this tv yesterday, it had the cloudy backlight issue. I layed it flat on my bed and the clouds were lessened after that. I wiped down the cloudy areas with a cloth afterwards and the clouds seem almost totally gone now. But alas, the uneven backlight remains.

Windowman4

12-20-06, 01:59 AM

chappy16775

12-20-06, 10:29 AM

What happens when you hit Calibration Target? Does it allow you to change these settings? Can you screw anything up?

Windowman4

12-20-06, 11:49 AM

The Calibration Target just shows your setting. You can change it, but I highly recommend that you write down the settings before you modify it. I did not write down the setting and that is why I need someone to tell me what their settings are. I'm just trying to set it back to the manufactures setting.

bluedvl11

12-20-06, 12:53 PM

I accidently calibrated the TV in the service menu (mute 182 power) when I tried to check how many hours I had on my TV. I think I got the tv back to the way it was, but the picture looks a little fuzzy.

Can someone check their Calibration Target section on the service menu and compare it to mine? I really like to get the T.V. back to the way it was before.

Many Thanks!

Windowman4

Calibration Target:
1st_AV_Low 16
1st_AV_High 235
1st_AV_Delta 4
1st_COMP_low 16
1st_COMP_high 235
1st_COMP_Delta 4
1st_PC_low 4
1st_PC_high 245
1st_PC_Delta 4

2nd_AV_Low 1
2nd_AV_High 235
2nd_AV_Delta 8
2nd_COMP_low 1
2nd_COMP_High 235
2nd_COMP_Delta 8
2nd_PC_Low 1
2nd_PC_High 245
2nd_PC_Delta 8
2nd_HDMI_Low 1
2nd_HDMI_High 235
2nd_HDMI_Delta 8

CVD_Contrast 120
CVD_Brightness 32
REG_Target_ADC4 65
REG_Target_ADC3 128
REG_Target_ADC2 128
REG_PGA2 162
REG_PGA3 162
REG_PGA4 162
Red_Offset 54
Green_Offset 115
Blue_Offset 129
Red_Grain 68

Well first off, i accidentally hit reset and had to completely set up my tv again thanks to you....lol

Anyway, your first two sets are fine, but mine differs in the third set completly. Mine is a follows:

CVD_Contrast 120
CVD_Brightness 50
REG_Target_ADC4 16
REG_Target_ADC3 16
REG_Target_ADC2 16
REG_PGA2 200
REG_PGA3 200
REG_PGA4 200
Red_Offset 71
Green_Offset 70
Blue_Offset 70
red_gain 93
green_gain 93
blue_gain 93

You didnt have your gains listed. Before I hit reset I had changed a couple things in a different part of the service menu to ge rid of the red on people faces, but i think that info was lost after I hit reset, since everything else was, so this should be what yours is set too.

Can you do me a favor and ceck your settings in the white balance section. What is your red gain and red offset settings? Also in dynamic contrast section, is your dynamic CE on or off, thanks.

Windowman4

12-20-06, 01:58 PM

[/QUOTE]Well first off, i accidentally hit reset and had to completely set up my tv again thanks to you....lol

Anyway, your first two sets are fine, but mine differs in the third set completly. Mine is a follows:

CVD_Contrast 120
CVD_Brightness 50
REG_Target_ADC4 16
REG_Target_ADC3 16
REG_Target_ADC2 16
REG_PGA2 200
REG_PGA3 200
REG_PGA4 200
Red_Offset 71
Green_Offset 70
Blue_Offset 70
red_gain 93
green_gain 93
blue_gain 93

You didnt have your gains listed. Before I hit reset I had changed a couple things in a different part of the service menu to ge rid of the red on people faces, but i think that info was lost after I hit reset, since everything else was, so this should be what yours is set too.

Can you do me a favor and ceck your settings in the white balance section. What is your red gain and red offset settings? Also in dynamic contrast section, is your dynamic CE on or off, thanks.[QUOTE]

I'm not at home right now, but I believe my white balance is off. I also think both settings on the dynamic CE is off. I can double check when I get home. I am going to stop by Best Buy and see how thier TV is calibrated. Hopefully they will have the remote controll there. They usually do. I will take pictures and upload them if I can get my hands on the remote controll.

MrFritz

12-20-06, 07:27 PM

OK. Just like you guys, I had to peek-n-tweak. But, here's what I found:

Under Dynamic Contrast, you can turn Dynamic CE Off or On. By default, it was Off. So, I switched it on. What a difference!!! I think I love it this way.

The other settings were Dynamic Dimming (Off by default) and Y_Mean Read(10). I didn't see any change when toggling either one. Could somebody tell me what these two do. As for Y_Mean Read(10), I don't think it has a default setting. But if it does, please tell me what it is.

Thanks,
Fred

pixelswim

12-20-06, 07:47 PM

Not really. 92's do NOT have a QAM truner, 96 HAS to (it has a cable card slot) but the 95 does not HAVE to have it. The 95 may have one.

You are correct, my mistake, I was using 9xD to mean 95D and 96D series which is usually what this thread is about. I was being lazy and did not think about the 92D. I thought all the 95D models had a QAM tuner, perhaps someone can confirm. My experience is with a 96D.

Whoops, now I see there's been more discussion I had not read... so it looks like the 95Ds do not have QAM.

TheOneAndOnly

12-20-06, 08:24 PM

The Y_Mean Read(10) gives you the average contrast ratio of what is currently displayed on the screen every time you press the arrow button.

pixelswim

12-20-06, 08:44 PM

Does anyone know if the 4096 is Energy Star compliant? I see the 4095 is listed on the Energy Star website but the 4096 isn't. Some retailers say it is...but has anyone seen gotten this information from Samsung? I'm wondering if the addition of the CableCard support caused it to lose its Energy Star rating.

MorrisonHiker, You might try PMing Mark_1080p, here is a quote of his:

"Power use is about 115 Watts, looks like my 2nd Kill-A-Watt meter reads low, or the real power use is somewhere in between 100-115 watts."

This was about his 5296D - he was interested in energy usage in the different LCD models and said the sammy's were quite low in energy usage compared to some of the others.

Sorry if this is not really what you're looking for... --pixelswim

MrFritz

12-20-06, 08:45 PM

The Y_Mean Read(10) gives you the average contrast ratio of what is currently displayed on the screen every time you press the arrow button.

Thanks. That was my guess too.

BTW. If you hit RESET, it will reset all of your channel manager settings. I assume it will also reset all of the other remaining menu selection items, including calibration, back to default values. Can anyone confirm this for the rest of the tweakers out there.

Fred

chappy16775

12-20-06, 10:17 PM

Reset does not reset the calibration - only the user settings. It appears....

rotx

12-20-06, 10:54 PM

Disclaimer: Use this information at your own risk. It's pretty easy to make a decent picture worse, so proceed only if you've already messed up your display.

The calibration is a two step process. The first step (the one you accidentally executed) uses a black/white checkerboard pattern to automatically adjust the white balance. This is why the picture will look washed out when calibration was executed using a 'random' signal, or have a tint when you display the wrong pattern (e.g. NTSC color bars).

Samsung says the pattern to use is MIK K-7256 #24 chessboard. I don't know what the pattern is exactly (Google comes up empty, but the MIK K-7256 is a pattern generator). The 16-field ANSI checkerboard seems to work (at your own risk, the actual Samsung pattern could be different - I couldn't find a user's manual for the K-7256). Display that pattern at 720p on the desired input and hit calibrate. If you don't have a pattern generator, you can try using your PC or the OLD Video Essentials DVD (chapter 15 -- the new DIGITAL Video Essentials DVD doesn't seem to have this pattern). A pattern generator will obviously be better than a PC which has questionable signal levels -- the DVD should work well if you use the input for DVD because it'll take care of the DVD player calibration as well.

The second step is manual adjustment using pattern #92 (??) and x/y coordinates given by Samsung. You measure color temperature and brightness and use the white balance adjustment menu. It looks like the manual calibration is not done as a matter of course, so if you get step 1 right you should have your set back the way it was. You don't have to change the calibration target for this.

Hope this'll save someone a service call.

I accidently calibrated the TV in the service menu (mute 182 power) when I tried to check how many hours I had on my TV. I think I got the tv back to the way it was, but the picture looks a little fuzzy.

MorrisonHiker

12-21-06, 12:20 AM

MorrisonHiker, You might try PMing Mark_1080p, here is a quote of his:

"Power use is about 115 Watts, looks like my 2nd Kill-A-Watt meter reads low, or the real power use is somewhere in between 100-115 watts."

This was about his 5296D - he was interested in energy usage in the different LCD models and said the sammy's were quite low in energy usage compared to some of the others.

Sorry if this is not really what you're looking for... --pixelswim

Thanks for pointing that out. I will PM him and see. I have been considering getting a Kill-A-Watt of my own...and perhaps going in to Circuit City or another local store and testing it out (if they'll let me).

If someone already has the 4096D and a Kill-A-Watt (or similar device), could you please post the standby power usage here? Thanks.

WilliamG

12-21-06, 12:27 AM

Hey all. I just got my LN-S4695D 46" Samsung 1080p LCD and love it for PS3, 360 and Toshiba A2-HD HD-DVD usage. However, Playstation 2 gaming now leaves a LOT to be desired. The actual image isn't too bad in general, but there's this strange "banding" I might call it where FMVs and to a lesser extent in-game graphics are "layered" (best way to describe it). Is there anything I can do to fix this? It creates super jaggies, and it's quite painful on the eyes. I think this is what people talk about when they say an image makes their eyes bleed. :(

Any help appreciated.

macrosssdf1

12-21-06, 12:45 AM

Btw, there are different sets of calibration targets, depending on what source you are currently displaying. Ie Hdmi, PC, AV, etc all have their own sets of numbers.

Also hitting reset will not restore the default settings if you change any calibration info. Hitting reset will actualy make your changes save.

What you can do is pick a source you haven't messed with, and write down those numbers, then change to the source you messed up by hitting calibrate and copy in those numbers. Make sure you hit reset when you are all done to make the settings save. This is what I had to do when I accidentaly hit calibrate hehe.

chappy16775

12-21-06, 01:23 AM

rotx

12-21-06, 02:14 AM

If someone already has the 4096D and a Kill-A-Watt (or similar device), could you please post the standby power usage here? Thanks.

Standby (blue light off): 16W (too high for my taste!)
On, Energy Saver "high": 107W
On, Energy Saver "off": 268W

"Movie Mode"/"Dynamic" didn't make a difference. I don't have a Cable Card. The Cable Card slot has a fan, that would indicate it's adding a few extra Watts.

jamesb23

12-21-06, 02:17 AM

So I'm confused. I have the 4095D and I too accidentally hit calibrate. My numbers were messed up in the same way and I inputted the numbers thanks to Windowman4, but do those same numbers need to be inputted for every resolution or source?

EDIT: And if they are supposed to be a different set of numbers for each, can someone please post the numbers for each? I'm not sure what's messed up and what's right anymore on my TV. :confused:

pixelswim

12-21-06, 07:40 AM

Thanks for pointing that out. I will PM him and see. I have been considering getting a Kill-A-Watt of my own...and perhaps going in to Circuit City or another local store and testing it out (if they'll let me).

If someone already has the 4096D and a Kill-A-Watt (or similar device), could you please post the standby power usage here? Thanks.

And further... The back of my 5296D says "325W" (watts) so my recollection is that Mark_1080p was pleased that using each of the backlight dimmer settings (Energy Savings settings) did make a difference. Less than 115 watts is pretty low. I can't remember if this was Energy Savings = High but it probably was.

Anybody care to give us an example of 50" plasma wattage? :) --pixelswim

Riverside_Guy

12-21-06, 10:40 AM

Standby (blue light off): 16W (too high for my taste!)
On, Energy Saver "high": 107W
On, Energy Saver "off": 268W

WOW! I've read posts claiming that over 50% of the cost of a LCD set is the backlight. Which I took with a big grain of salt. As we know, "Energy Saver" means the backlight, high essentially means the backlight is at it low point, off means it's full blast. BUT 160 watts difference? That really is QUITE large.

Then again, it's drawing 107 watts while operating with the backlight at it's dimmest? That sure seems to be way too little... or were you measuring with the TV "on" but with no signal being displayed?

kwatch

12-21-06, 12:26 PM

wkndrdr

12-21-06, 05:02 PM

Hello, I'm just now starting to adjust the picture through the service menu, however, I noticed that the DNIe mode is on and the digital noise reduction is on when entering the service menu even when I have it originally set off in the normal menu. Is there a way to turn it off when I'm in the service menu? My firmware is dated 7-27-06, if that makes any difference.

ryno4ever

12-21-06, 06:24 PM

D92Mike

12-21-06, 06:30 PM

OK, Just pulled the trigger on the LN-S4695. With a 10% coupon at CC, WHAT A PRICE! I remember reading something about bringing it home and to lay it down a certain way. Is this true? I've done so much research I can't recall where it was or if it was just for plasmas? Thanks for the help.

You might try searching the Sony thread...I think some people there were trying to get rid of the "cloudiness" associated with the new Sony LCD's (and some Samsungs). That's a great price on the 46" BTW.

rotx

12-21-06, 07:10 PM

WOW! I've read posts claiming that over 50% of the cost of a LCD set is the backlight. Which I took with a big grain of salt. As we know, "Energy Saver" means the backlight, high essentially means the backlight is at it low point, off means it's full blast. BUT 160 watts difference? That really is QUITE large.

Then again, it's drawing 107 watts while operating with the backlight at it's dimmest? That sure seems to be way too little... or were you measuring with the TV "on" but with no signal being displayed?

It was displaying SDTV. The energy saver high works well for me in the evenings -- still bright enough! The 16W standby bugs me much more...

rotx

12-21-06, 07:13 PM

Is there any way I can save the custom set up for each input source? I created custom color set up for TV(Component 1). It was changed when I made a change for DVD(component 2). I was able to maintain the custom set up for each input when I had Sharp 46D62.

There are only three custom settings:
- HDMI
- Component
- CVBS

All inputs fall in one of these categories as they share the respective circuitry.

macrosssdf1

12-22-06, 04:35 AM

Are you sure it can be restored to normal just by changing the calibration target numbers and hitting calibrate? It sounds like the calibrate option takes the signal currently being fed and bases the calibration off that.

You don't hit calibrate at all. You just edit the numbers in the calibration target screen, then exit and hit reset to save it. When you change the numbers, you can actualy see the colors etc change on the screen. So just adjust them up and down till you get the colors how you want them.

Hitting calibrate will mess up all the numbers. What I meant was to change to a non-messed up source, and copy those numbers, then change to your messed up source and change those numbers. Ie when you hit calibrate, it will calibrate the current source and mess it up, not all your sources. Your other sources should still be set to the factory settings or whatever so just use those as a guide to what the proper numbers should be. The numbers do differ slightly per source, but they are close enough to make the picture look good.

alexend

12-22-06, 10:48 AM

Hi,

I have a 4095D and I went to the service menu for the first time last night to try correcting the "red push" and some details problems I saw when a bit off axis.

I was wondering if someone could tell me the difference with changing, for exemple, Red_Gain settings in the "white balance" menu and the Red_Gain settings in the "calibrated target" menu.

Also, I was wondering what is the difference between the red_offset settings and the red_gain settings? At first they seem to have the same effect but I'm no specialist.

Finally, I found that the settings that helped the most my overall picture quality off axis was to reduce the Gamma settings (in "option" menu) to 46.

Comments on this would be appreciated, thanks.

Alex

choekstr

12-22-06, 01:34 PM

I just got in my DVI to HDMI cable last night so I finally had a chance to hook up my PC and see 1080p (on my LN-S4696D) and the dreaded overscan issue. Nothing new than has already been discussed but I decided to call Samsung (US/Canada number) and see what they had to say and if I could get any more information than already has been conveyed here.

After asking my detailed question I was quickly passed up to the Tier-2 support team and the support rep was knowledgeable about all the concepts but stated he hadn't heard anything about an overscan issue and they officially didn't support hooking up to PC's.

Fine, he wanted to play that way, I dug in and went logistical on him and got him to divulge these things:
- (According to him) They are not coming out with a firmware that fixes overscan and they are not working on one. They don't think there is an overscan issue and do not have very many people calling in with complaints!
- His LN-S4096D with a blue-ray player connected via HDMI and playing 5th Element did not have an overscan issue. When stating that he wouldn't notice with video he brought up the menu and stated the menu borders were at the edge and not cut off.
- They do have newer firmware versions they distribute to customers but it only fixes built-in CableCard issues (obviously only for models that have a slot). I probed a bit deeper and he said they used to have seperate versions that fixed issues with Comcast, Time Warner, and other cable companies but now a single firmware addresses all the various CC issues and missing channels.
- He would not tell me the version of the updated CC firmware or he didn't know it but said that unless you are affected with the CC issues you wouldn't get the firmware update or need it.
- None of the models shipping as of right now are going out with this "new" firmware.
- He made a subtle reference to someone getting a hold of an overseas firmware before I mentioned anything about that so I know he either lurks here or has heard of people downgrading/upgrading already.

Obviously take all of this with a grain of salt as this is my impression and recount of the call and also he is obligated to say official Samsung statements. :rolleyes:

My thoughts on this:
- If what he says is true, what about the 1019 version and the JustScan option?
- If we aren't getting this version in the US and Samsung refuses to admit there is a problem then this is a pretty big deal! For me at least.
- If this is true then I will probably return the set as text from my computer looks like **** at 1080p while not 1:1. Scaled resolution to fit the start menu and taskbar onscreen is not what I paid thousands of dollars for. :mad:

Just my $0.02,
Chris

jamesb23

12-22-06, 03:47 PM

Well following up on my last post, I decided to put in the numbers that bluedvl11 supplied for my calibration target - same numbers for all the modes, component 480p, hdmi, ota TV, etc. I don't know if this was correct or if I should have a different set of numbers for each. It did seem to help, but I'd appreciate someone's input here.

Also, even after fixing the calibration target, my colors seem out of whack somewhat. My THX grayscale pattern continues to have a red tinge to it, and I'm noticing like purplish colors in the black/dark gray areas especially in some video games. How can this be fixed? With the White Balance numbers? With the Calibration numbers?

Can bluedvl11 or someone please clear this up, post some more numbers? I would GREATLY appreciate it! :)

Identity Fraud

12-23-06, 03:35 AM

This is the most frustrating thing about trying to find a new TV. This set has an issue with 1:1 over inputs, the Sonys get clouds and only support 1080p through HDMI. Would it kill someone to make a killer set that has loads of options? Serioulsy, I think this boils down to poor customer support. Their reason for not fixing it is because they 1) Don't see it as a problem and 2) Don't care because "no one is complaing"

Ugh. This is so annoying, this set was 10hours away from being mine and this issue, as small as it may be is keeping me from getting it. The funny thing is I wonder if I'd notice this set didn't have 1:1 through its inputs if I never came into this thread. :confused:

I might still get this set, the XBR is almost the same price now on sale, but the clouding issues is somthing that concerns me. It's still a toss up between these two sets that have minor flaws that both in par with eachother.

I saw earlier in this thread people mentoned getting a tech out and they could disable overscan with their tools. Any truth to this?

TheOneAndOnly

12-23-06, 03:44 AM

You all say overscan but when I feed a 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz I get under scan of about 1/4" on either side and less on the top and bottom. I am using a DVI to HDMI connection from a ATI X1900XT with the 16x9 mode set on the tv. If I use any other refresh rate other then 60 Hz I get overscan. Just thought I would put that out there.

Identity Fraud

12-23-06, 12:34 PM

Well that may be a way to get around the overscan issue for PC users, which is better than nothing but so far no word yet on the other inputs. Samsung droped the ball on this one, I'm still not sure if its a deal breaker for me or not yet. I can't believe the service menu can't fix this.

jessegun23

12-23-06, 01:50 PM

So my gf just bought me the LN-S4696D for xmas...and it is friggin amazing. It looks great. I was wondering what some of you have setup for your settings picture wise for HD TV / DVDs/ and the xbox360

I'm currently using the standard settings and it looks great....but I know it can look even better...

I was playing Gears of War for about 6 hrs lasnight on it... what a difference this tv makes

jessegun23

12-23-06, 02:05 PM

I forgot to ask... Do you all think it would be worth while to get the Circuit City Service plan for this tv?? It's an extra $500 for 3 yrs... not sure if it would be worth it or not... I've had bestbuy plans and they've worked great on getting newer models but I've never had a CC plan

macrosssdf1

12-23-06, 03:11 PM

$500 for 3 years is alot...
I got the one from Frys though, was only 200 bucks for 5 years. Bet the TV is cheaper there too hehe.

Gerry7

12-23-06, 04:14 PM

Hi folks, this is my very first post - apologies if I address an issue that has been done to death in other threads, etc.

I have a Sammy LN-S4696D connected to a Motorola DCT 6416 III HD cable box, Sony DVP-NC85H up-converting DVD player and Pioneer Elite VSX-80TXV receiver, all purchased in the last month and together representing my first foray into the world of home theater. I've played a fair bit with the various settings, connections and so on, tweaking things to my satisfaction for the most part (thanks go to many other posts in this thread!), but for one annoyingly persistent problem: when watching HDTV channels and up-converted DVDs, often (usually) the sound precedes the image, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot. This apparently holds true when using the TV's speakers and when using the surround sound produced by the Pioneer, in Game Mode and out of it, and when outputting 720p or outputting 1080i through the cable-box (which must be preset one way or the other). I assume this is the input lag issue discussed elsewhere, primarily by gamers, wherein the TV's internal processing engine isn't as quick as it could or should be?

What to do, what to do?

Fortunately my Sony DVD player has an audio delay feature that mitigates the problem to some degree when watching DVDs, but to my dismay it appears that my Pioneer receiver does not. Should I return the Pioneer and replace it with some other AV receiver? Or do you think that future firmware updates for the Sammy will address this issue, and that I should simply wait? I currently have MODULE: T-MOSAUS0-1005, DATE: 2006-07-22, MICOM: T-MOSAUS5-1001, KERNAL: RFS on my Sammy. Can better internal software affect processing speed a'tall, do you think?

I love the Sammy in every other way (well, excepting a neon green problem that I've mostly tweaked away), but the video/audio delay is so annoying that I'm tempted to return it and consider a plasma alternative. Well, that's probably too drastic a move ... I really love this TV ... but still, is there something I can do to match lip movements to their articulations?

Thanks in advance.