Is the '96' series the only LCD with a QAM tuner??

Speaking of QAM...What exactly would I be losing by not having a QAM tuner?

Any and all digital cable channels that are 'in the clear', or with a cable card, ALL digital cable channels without one of their damn power and money (as in PPV) hungry STBs'. :mad:

Just bought a 4095D from BB :D - just getting it set up, turned DNIe off and energy saver up - PS3 looks fantastic! HD football looks fantastic! Very fast motion pans and no tearing/screen door/lag/MB at all! Surprisingly, SD analog cable looks pretty decent as well! When watching SD DVDs (Superman Returns) there was big time black crush - wasn't sure how to fix it, I haven't fine tuned the TV yet. What posted settings have people had the most success with?

I believe you more than the DirecTV people, so I won't doubt that IS the answer.

I am guessing that the HR20 is the DVR version of the H20?

Thanks!! MP

Mark -

I hate to tell you this, but the problem is the H20-100 ONLY. All subsequent versions of the H20 (up to -700 now) are fine. This was only a problem with the Samsung connection via HDMI. Component should be fine.

Directv are kind of jerks about this and will probably try to push you to Samsung. To me, its almost worth it to shell out $70 (if you're addicted to HDMI) to get a -600 or -700 version rather than deal with D* and Sammy over and over again.

Good luck!

so is the samsung4096 1080p good for gaming, would i be able to use the VGA, with my xbox and would i be getting 1080p? i realy cant find much information about the samsung 4096 in here if its a good tv, are there any problems with this unit? seems to me every lcd tv in the market has problems.

so is the samsung4096 1080p good for gaming, would i be able to use the VGA, with my xbox and would i be getting 1080p? i realy cant find much information about the samsung 4096 in here if its a good tv, are there any problems with this unit? seems to me every lcd tv in the market has problems.

Have you not read any of this thread? There are even pics of the PS3 on the 4096D... yes, it's fantastic. The 4095 and 4096D are the same tv, save a cablecard/USB slot and a few minor differences. If you don't need the cablecard get the 4095D. Either TV is fantastic for gaming and HD movie watching.

Have you not read any of this thread? There are even pics of the PS3 on the 4096D... yes, it's fantastic. The 4095 and 4096D are the same tv, save a cablecard/USB slot and a few minor differences. If you don't need the cablecard get the 4095D. Either TV is fantastic for gaming and HD movie watching.
ya hows it for the 360 but? would it give me a true 1080p thru vga? thanks

I noticed that some of the post mentioned using HD-DVD's and setting the sharpness to a value that is above "0" The quality of an HD signal be it from a game console, hd-dvd/bluray or a cable/sat box is sharp enough that you are only degrading your viewing experience by trying to artificially enhance it. SD brodcasts are another story as it all depends on the signal. The sharpness feature was only put in place to help with low quality analog signals and if you ask me it should be elimenated completly from HD sets over HD imputs(DVI/HDMI/ect.)

ya hows it for the 360 but? would it give me a true 1080p thru vga? thanks

Yes it will. Search is your friend.

Ok I bought LNS4051 I like it But now they Have the LNS 4696 I can return the 4051
and get the 1080 P 46 inch, for about an extra 600 cdn. It has really fallen in price were as the 4051 hasn't so much. I want to get it but am a bit worried. Question: Does the fact that it is 1080 p and 2 million pixels help reduce the pixelation in sports, and does standard tv look worst on the 4696. And is it more prone to problems (I have read on cnets review that it is good but a problem with the greens and screen brighter on one side ect.
any info would help me decide what to do . I really want the bigger screen but dont want any problems in the near future either.

I'm using the VGA connection for my PC, from a laptop. A full HD res, I have no overscan at all.

Check your pic size in that mode.

Yeah, there's no overscan if you're using VGA from your PC. It's only visible from your PC when using Component or DVI/HDMI.

I posted more than a week ago about how I phoned Samsung tech support about the overscan issue, and they said they'd look into it and phone me back.


Well, it didn't happen. I don't have a whole lot of hope that they'll fix this issue in this series of televison. Too bad. :(

PLEASE HELP. I tried to hook up my computer to the my lns 4695d and all I'm getting is the background on my computer. No, icons or mouse shows up at all. I called tech support and level one offered me no help and I got tired of being on hold for an hour for level two support so I hung up. I thought I would give you guys a chance since the outcome here is usually better in most cases. Do I have a setting wrong on my computer or what? I'm using XP and a VGA cable.

You can try adjusting the resolution..not guaranteeing anything or maybe you tried... What have you tried so far? type of video card?

It's also possible that you have the TV set up as a secondary monitor and the toolbar and icons remain on your regular monitor and anything you want on the tv you need to drag from your regular monitor onto the tv.

PLEASE HELP. I tried to hook up my computer to the my lns 4695d and all I'm getting is the background on my computer. No, icons or mouse shows up at all. I called tech support and level one offered me no help and I got tired of being on hold for an hour for level two support so I hung up. I thought I would give you guys a chance since the outcome here is usually better in most cases. Do I have a setting wrong on my computer or what? I'm using XP and a VGA cable.

I've had this problem with my laptops IBM T30 & T43. Not with this TV specifically, but it might be the display setting on your computer. What happens is the computer will recognize your VGA/sVideo connection as a second monitor.

Right-click on the desktop and go to the last tab Settings and you'll probably see a two monitor setup. From this tab you can manipulate how your computer should treat both outputs. Most likely you'll probably want to mirror the displays.

Try playing with a few of the settings and drop downs and you should be ok.

PLEASE HELP. I tried to hook up my computer to the my lns 4695d and all I'm getting is the background on my computer. No, icons or mouse shows up at all. I called tech support and level one offered me no help and I got tired of being on hold for an hour for level two support so I hung up. I thought I would give you guys a chance since the outcome here is usually better in most cases. Do I have a setting wrong on my computer or what? I'm using XP and a VGA cable.


set your resolution to 1024x768. Then press Function F4 until it displays the full screen on your TV (if you're using a laptop. If you're using a desktop, you need to go in the graphics properties, and you'll see something to use dual monitors, just play with that. It's a problem with how you've set up your comp, not the TV.

PLEASE HELP. I tried to hook up my computer to the my lns 4695d and all I'm getting is the background on my computer. No, icons or mouse shows up at all. I called tech support and level one offered me no help and I got tired of being on hold for an hour for level two support so I hung up. I thought I would give you guys a chance since the outcome here is usually better in most cases. Do I have a setting wrong on my computer or what? I'm using XP and a VGA cable.
You have to clone mode your primary moniter, Not in secondary moniter mode.
I had the same problem.

i am sorry if this has been answered but i dont have time to read the 100+ pages of this thread and i already used the search engine and didn't find my question/answer.

i have xbox 360 hooked up to my samsung 32" lcd (the 51d model). I love it and it's in my bedroom so i played probably 7-10 feet away from it. I kinda wish i had a 40" screen though to play games on. My question has to do with the 720p / 1080p difference.

Many people say 40" and below you can't tell the difference. But what i'm wondering is about the conversion. I've come to the conclusion that it's stupid to set my 360 to 1080i even though the 32" sammy supports it b/c your tv can't display more lines of resolution than it's max. makes sense....

But with these 40" tv's having a native resolution of 1920 X 1280 and being able to display 1080p as it's normal resolution, how does that work with the 360 since most ALL the games were created/produced/manufactured in 720p? Like i know a lot of games support multiple resolutions but i heard that almost every game for the 360 has been created in 720p so that when it's disk "goes gold" and they put it out to manufacture the thousands or millions of copies, it is in 720p.

So if you set your 40" Samsung to 1080p resolution, is the tv just adding lines that weren't in Gears of War before? or is there something i'm missing. Cause if that wasn't a limitation and you are actually seeing the xbox 360 games IN 1080p instead of 720p, i would highly consider upgrading my set since i believe that is where technology is heading and i assume future games will eventually all be created in 1080p HD.

If you made it this far in my post, thanks. :D

NOTE: The 4x95 and 4x96 are the same except for the cable card slot, hence the missive below applies to any 1080 LN-S4x9y.

I am considering spending the $2 - $3K for the Samsung LN-S4x95D. However, no one on the AVS site seems to know whether or not the Sammys deinterlace properly. I have finally found out. But first the issue...

There are two ways to deinterlace1080i to 1080p; El Cheapo and Real:
1) El Cheapo - Take the 540 odd (or even) lines into a frame store and toss out the other 540 lines of video information, and then line double the frame store to output 1/2 resolution 1080p/30, better called 540p.
2) Real - Take the odd lines into the frame store AND take the even lines into the frame store (this is the actual de-interlacing part), and then output the full resolution 1080p/30 signal.

According to George, the level 2 tech I just got off the phone with (Samsung transaction # 2002833x58, 070110:1405) Samsung takes the low road for the above referenced set line. I was told that they line double 540p/(0.5)60 into 1080p30. George implied that none of the Sammy 1080p displays take an incoming 1080i/60 and properly process it into 1080p/30.

Now it becomes a question as to watch non-interpolated 540p from a 1080i signal, or to watch 1080i downconverted (whether interpolated with math, or by every third line being dumped) to 720p. Certainly, 1080p from HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will look best on a 1080p display device, but most of my viewing is from a cable 1080i STB, or 1080i OTA.

I'm going to call Sony to find out how they drive the Samsung panel they are using in their XBR2 line.

Does ANYONE truly KNOW of a 40" - 46" 1080p LCD display that PROPERLY deinterlaces 1080i?

I posted more than a week ago about how I phoned Samsung tech support about the overscan issue, and they said they'd look into it and phone me back.


Well, it didn't happen. I don't have a whole lot of hope that they'll fix this issue in this series of televison. Too bad. :(

GREAT NEWS! Hopefully.

I decided to e-mail Samsung Canada tech and find out if there was a firmware update coming with the Justscan option that was recently released in Korea. This was the response I got:

"Thank you for submitting an inquiry.

Hi Ryan,

As far as I know we are currently working on a firmware for this television. It should be available soon.

No dates have been provided for the release at this point.

Thank you..."

i have a question i have the 4096d but im concerned if anyone know the answer if the 96d does support the hdmi 1.3 or not?

GREAT NEWS! Hopefully.

I decided to e-mail Samsung Canada tech and find out if there was a firmware update coming with the Justscan option that was recently released in Korea. This was the response I got:

"Thank you for submitting an inquiry.

Hi Ryan,

As far as I know we are currently working on a firmware for this television. It should be available soon.

No dates have been provided for the release at this point.

Thank you..."


Believe it when I see it!!!!

i have a question i have the 4096d but im concerned if anyone know the answer if the 96d does support the hdmi 1.3 or not?

The 4x96D models do not have hdmi 1.3 inputs, but HDMI is backwards compatible with older inputs so if a new device with HDMI 1.3 is plugged into your tv, it will work, you just likely won't be able to see or hear the differences.

Not that you could anyway :rolleyes: - people are over exaggerating the benefits of HDMI 1.3.

Hello Again,

I am days away from the purchase of the 4695. In preperation I have been re-reading the post and the user manual. My question is about PIP. I read the table in the manual and it said you could get HDMI and Analog.

So my question, if I split my coax before it goes in the Comcast DVR as my HDMI and run the other feed direct into the antenna, will I be able to get PIP for my HDMI digital cable and limited unscrambled channels?

Thanks

hello, i have an odd side question im not sure has been asked,

i have the 4696 model currently out of its box and wanted to know what, if any, is the best / safest / secure way to carry / move this display (or any LCD displays for that matter) from one location to another (like say from main floor to basement)? with it's piano finish and glass lining on the bottom, i just want to make sure i'm handling it with proper care. sorry if this is a silly question.

also, while i'm content with the picture quality, i currently have my energy saving setting at OFF. I was wondering what people here that have the setting at LOW do to adjust or compensate for dimness when having it at that setting.

There are two ways to deinterlace1080i to 1080p; El Cheapo and Real:
1) El Cheapo - Take the 540 odd (or even) lines into a frame store and toss out the other 540 lines of video information, and then line double the frame store to output 1/2 resolution 1080p/30, better called 540p.
2) Real - Take the odd lines into the frame store AND take the even lines into the frame store (this is the actual de-interlacing part), and then output the full resolution 1080p/30 signal.

According to George, the level 2 tech I just got off the phone with (Samsung transaction # 2002833x58, 070110:1405) Samsung takes the low road for the above referenced set line. I was told that they line double 540p/(0.5)60 into 1080p30. George implied that none of the Sammy 1080p displays take an incoming 1080i/60 and properly process it into 1080p/30.

Now it becomes a question as to watch non-interpolated 540p from a 1080i signal, or to watch 1080i downconverted (whether interpolated with math, or by every third line being dumped) to 720p. Certainly, 1080p from HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will look best on a 1080p display device, but most of my viewing is from a cable 1080i STB, or 1080i OTA.

You should hang out in the video processors forum here at avs.

The de-interlacing of film and video are two different things. Film de-interlacing is commonly referred to as inverse telecine. since film is shot in a progressive format, it is relatively easy to interlace and de-interlace 2 fields into one frame as you described above.

You are incorrect, however, in your description of video deinterlacing. First there is no such thing as 1080p30. 2 fields of video shot in 1080i60 cannot be combined into one frame since the video itself is shot in an interlaced format. In order to "properly" de-interlace video you have to have a very good video processor like the Silicon Optix Reon that is featured in toshibas new HD-XA2 HD DVD player. One LCD that has the Reon is made my Olevia. I suggest you read that forum.

So my question, if I split my coax before it goes in the Comcast DVR as my HDMI and run the other feed direct into the antenna, will I be able to get PIP for my HDMI digital cable and limited unscrambled channels?

Thanks

I believe your hypothetical situation would work fine. I just bought a 4095D a few days ago, you can do PIP with different inputs (here your cable HDMI box and standard cable). Unfortunately you can't do PIP both showing analog cable in itself for some reason (two cable channels at once) - I suppose it doesn't actually have a dual tuner.

hello, i have an odd side question im not sure has been asked,

i have the 4696 model currently out of its box and wanted to know what, if any, is the best / safest / secure way to carry / move this display (or any LCD displays for that matter) from one location to another (like say from main floor to basement)? with it's piano finish and glass lining on the bottom, i just want to make sure i'm handling it with proper care. sorry if this is a silly question.

also, while i'm content with the picture quality, i currently have my energy saving setting at OFF. I was wondering what people here that have the setting at LOW do to adjust or compensate for dimness when having it at that setting.

Always move LCDs/Plasma displays UPRIGHT. Do not set them flat on their backs/faces, it puts bad strain on the glass and can cause future backlight issues/clouding. When transferring do all the normal things you'd think to do (common sense), perhaps place many blankets around the set, strap it down if possible or fit it between two large flat pieces of furniture (if shipping in a big truck with other large items) - just don't place the panel on it's back/front/side.

I believe your hypothetical situation would work fine. I just bought a 4095D a few days ago, you can do PIP with different inputs (here your cable HDMI box and standard cable). Unfortunately you can't do PIP both showing analog cable in itself for some reason (two cable channels at once) - I suppose it doesn't actually have a dual tuner.

For those curious about PIP. Although the Samsungs have limited PIP options, many new dual-tuner cable and satellite receivers have PIP built into the receiver so you can get PIP even if the tv doesn't offer it. A new receiver may help those strapped by the limited options the tv gives.

Maybe ya's already know this but when buying a tv, PIP played a big part and then after I bought it I found out the new HD Sat receiver has built-in PIP options since it's dual-tuner

sorry to crash this party with a different tv. i have a samsung LN-4051D. but found this thread from lots of searching trying to find someone with the same issues as me. i recently bought a dvi-hdmi cable and the picture on the tv is resizing, not 1:1. is this the exact same issue you are all on about here? i know my tv isnt 1080p, but do all samsung tvs resize like this? anyone know if theres firmware coming for my tv too that may fix this? or is there already? is there any way around this problem in the service menus? any help would be great.

Just bought a 4095D from BB :D - just getting it set up, turned DNIe off and energy saver up - PS3 looks fantastic! HD football looks fantastic! Very fast motion pans and no tearing/screen door/lag/MB at all! Surprisingly, SD analog cable looks pretty decent as well! When watching SD DVDs (Superman Returns) there was big time black crush - wasn't sure how to fix it, I haven't fine tuned the TV yet. What posted settings have people had the most success with?
I too would like to know what settings others are using.

i have a problem here if anyone here own a xbox 360 and using the wireless adaptor i like to know what should i use for a router that will work and easy to install im a little comfused on what router i should use if anyone here would help thanx.

Off topic, but just about any new router will work with the X360 Wireless Adapter (or the Xbox Wireless Adapter for that matter). Personally, I've used my X360 with an older Linksys WRTG54, a basic Netgear router at 108 Mbps (I think it was $60, not sure of the model), and my Actiontec/Verizon router.

I've never understood the appeal of higher-priced gaming routers. I don't have any problems with standard home-networking routers.

When I first read saw the Sony and the fact that it was 1080P, I figured it was time to finally move on from my trusty 'ol CRT. Plus with that glass surround it screamed sex! Then I saw the Samsung LN-S4696 at another store and the salesman was convincing me it was a better picture at a lower price. The part that bugs me when watching flat panels is the rasterization that happens intermitently, or how crappy they look on "regular-rez" stations. Is either of these sets superior, or would I care once I got it home? Or should I wait for the new Panasonic Plasmas that were released at CES? Or should I just stay blisfully in the stoneage . I dunno...just want a groovy new TV and flat panels have a high "get laid" facotr...and don't want to mortgage the double-wide to get it. (don't really live in a trailor).

What do you experts say?

Doctor Glass, I have split the signal before it enters the Cable Box and ran the second cable to the "antenna" connection on the back. I enjoy PIP just fine and I also have EXCELLENT HD and SD from the cable box. I sit 10-15 feet from the screen (depending on whether or not I get my favorite seat. I think any closer than 10 feet and folks start saying that SD looks lousy on these tvs. Everyone is different, and some like to sit closer than that.

I just received a Samsung LN-S4696D from Best Buy, replacing two in a row defective Toshiba 42hl96 sets that would not work properly on cablecard. This set works great with cablecard (Cablevision). HDTV picture quality is excellent, no clouds, no ghost bar, no excessive clicking noises. To my surprise, the picture quality on most analogue stations is pretty darn good. The sound system for a built in tv audio is quite acceptable. Once the cablecard was installed, the set no longer is able to use PIP and lost the picture sizing settings for Zoom 1 and Zoom 2. The only thing I miss from the Toshiba is the picture sizing capability to fill the screen without making people look fat. Toshiba is the only one able to do this Best Buy says, not the Sony, Samsung, or any other.

When I first read saw the Sony and the fact that it was 1080P, I figured it was time to finally move on from my trusty 'ol CRT. Plus with that glass surround it screamed sex! Then I saw the Samsung LN-S4696 at another store and the salesman was convincing me it was a better picture at a lower price. The part that bugs me when watching flat panels is the rasterization that happens intermitently, or how crappy they look on "regular-rez" stations. Is either of these sets superior, or would I care once I got it home? Or should I wait for the new Panasonic Plasmas that were released at CES? Or should I just stay blisfully in the stoneage . I dunno...just want a groovy new TV and flat panels have a high "get laid" facotr...and don't want to mortgage the double-wide to get it. (don't really live in a trailor).

What do you experts say?
See my recent post, the LN-S4696D has surprisingly good picture on many analogue stations using a cablecard with Cablevision.

I had posted earlier that after spending quite a while comparing the Sony XBR2 and Samsung 4096, I could not justify the price difference based on picture quality. They were identical as far as I could tell.

Not a real good idea to refer to "LN4x9x" models, that does include the 92 models which are 768p ones. Samsung seems to fairly consistently refer to it's model series by the last 2 numbers, i.e. 92 series, 95 series, 96 series. Notice in some press release about 07 models they refer to a 61 and a 81 series?

I'm pulling the trigger tonight at HH for the Sammy 40" 1080. Cant wait. :) I did several days research and it seems the best for the money right now. Thanks everybody for all the input to help me decide. Hope I can return the favor someday.

Real quick.....20' viewing distance, is 40" the perfect fit?

Off topic, but just about any new router will work with the X360 Wireless Adapter (or the Xbox Wireless Adapter for that matter). Personally, I've used my X360 with an older Linksys WRTG54, a basic Netgear router at 108 Mbps (I think it was $60, not sure of the model), and my Actiontec/Verizon router.

I've never understood the appeal of higher-priced gaming routers. I don't have any problems with standard home-networking routers.

High-priced gaming routers offer better range and more throughput, but most don't use them for what they're made for. They also offer QOS features which mean that they prioritize the traffic being used for gaming over other traffic on your LAN. As such, you have better response times and less lag if you were gaming while others were doing other things on your network. They also have gigabit ports which would be extremely helpful if you were doing some serious gaming with a bunch of buddies in the same location. But most don't have gigabit nics so .. well I'm just trailing off. But anyway, to some they are worth it. :)

OK. If I'm about 18-20' away would there be a difference in 1080p vs 720p on a 46"? Didnt know if the money difference is worth the difference of a 46" viewing that far.

Real quick.....20' viewing distance, is 40" the perfect fit?

Not according to cnet.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7608_7-1016109-2.html?tag=tnav

All your answers are available in this very thread, should you care to read it.

*hint* try using search for super-fast answers.

Yeah, right !

["search" nazis on EVERY board on the 'net] :rolleyes:

High-priced gaming routers offer better range and more throughput, but most don't use them for what they're made for. They also offer QOS features which mean that they prioritize the traffic being used for gaming over other traffic on your LAN. As such, you have better response times and less lag if you were gaming while others were doing other things on your network. They also have gigabit ports which would be extremely helpful if you were doing some serious gaming with a bunch of buddies in the same location. But most don't have gigabit nics so .. well I'm just trailing off. But anyway, to some they are worth it. :)Well if you can please tell me which router do you recomend i like to know becaues im really comfused on those routers to use for gaming i just like to know the best for gaming and all i dont care about the price.

Well if you can please tell me which router do you recomend i like to know becaues im really comfused on those routers to use for gaming i just like to know the best for gaming and all i dont care about the price.

if you don't care about the price.. get a GamerFuel D-link router.. great range, decent price. Optimally you'll want to connect via Ehternet as opposed to wirelessly, but either will work.

Once you get it, Read the manual so you can understand and use it's features.


/edit Oops.. I meant D-link. That's the one I have. Linksys are the cisco soho routers.. stay away from them.

I'm using the D-Link gaming router... I recommend it... just go to www.dlink.com and you can see it.

Real quick.....20' viewing distance, is 40" the perfect fit?

holly mackeral, I had a 40 inch 4051 and was about 9 feet away and foundit too small,I exchanged it today(Boughtit on Boxing day)they charged me a $ 100.00
restocking fee which I didnt really care about becausenow I have the 4696
thats 46 inchs and still at 9 - 10 feet away and it is just right.
The picture is superb. No complaints at all, except I have noticed when watching
stb over dvi sat box to hdmi in then the audio I have plugged in via rca cabbles there is a .5 second lag in the audio. No problem if I use svideo. the standard
picture is actually very good. HD is actually better on this set than the 4051
a bit less pixelation since there are twice as many they are smaller so I guess all is good. I am a happy camper now. watched discovery Jeff coran in africa and a show about carnival in brazil. I watched both same shows yesterday on the other set
and on this one I can say that I dont really care how they do their 1080p. it is noticibly better on the 4696 than on the 4051. that set is still a very good one
but I am glad I forked out the extra money for the other features on this one.
andof coarse the bigger screen is way more enjoyable especially if watching stb
the letterboximage was a bit small on the 40inch.
Being through all this let me tell you bigger is better.
I havn't heard any cracking noises on 4696 on the 4051 I got them quite often.
So all is good (even my girlfriend who thinks I spend too much on crazy things,
agrees it was money well spent. Its actually not that that muchmore and if you
wait a couple of weeks or months I bet you can get a good deal since all the 2007
models will be coming out.

Just got back from Best Buy where I bought the 4695D. I had gone through just about all the other models from other companies and each one was missing something until I got to this unit. The Sharps were missing a 1080p VGA input, The Sony XBR units have clouding issues and are pretty pricey, The Westinghouse looked a bit washed out and not as much visual punch and then I got to the Samsung which covers all my bases including 1080p VGA and 1080p component(right?). I got it home and got it set up and hooked up my PS3 via the HDMI input and man does this unit put out a nice picture with the PS3. Very happy with my purchase. Now time to get the 360 hooked up and check out some HD-DVD action. I also picked up the Crank Blu-Ray while I was there and will be checking it out later on. I don't have my sound system hooked up yet but I was surprised at the bass level of the internal speakers. I'm like a little kid in the candy store tonight.

ok im going to get the d-link DGL 4300 for my router here is the big question. i have a cable modem hooked up to my pc with the usb do i hook up the router with the eithernet from the modem to my router? and is it easy to set up with the 360 or do i have to do some complex technical configuriation?? please help. thank you guys so much so far i really approciate it

ok im going to get the d-link DGL 4300 for my router here is the big question. i have a cable modem hooked up to my pc with the usb do i hook up the router with the eithernet from the modem to my router? and is it easy to set up with the 360 or do i have to do some complex technical configuriation?? please help. thank you guys so much so far i really approciate it


Its been awhile since I played with routers. Is the one you have wireless? Even if it's wireless there should still be a hard connection to it. Hook the modem to the router, and your PC directly to the router. The 360 would then be wireless to the router. Should be easy, the 360 should find the connection once you hook it in. You may have some times when the power goes out where the 360 has to reestablish the connection, but you shouldnt have to do anything except maybe a cold re-boot of the router.

I may be wrong, someone feel free to correct me.


BTW - I just got a Sammy 46" 720p. Changed the settings but they didnt save. I already held down the menu button on the TV to get it out of 'shop mode'. Do I select "reset" in the menu after changing my settings to save it? It just seems like selecting "reset" will reset the values back to default.

OK. If I'm about 18-20' away would there be a difference in 1080p vs 720p on a 46"? Didnt know if the money difference is worth the difference of a 46" viewing that far.

The cnet thing was already posted, but I found this calculator as well. This recommends a 60" screen or above at that viewing distance for HD programming:

http://www.dtvcity.com/lcdtv/lcdscreensize.html

So i have a 4695, but hopefully one of you guys will be able to help me.

on initial setup, I put it in shop mode by accident, and now everytime I turn it off then back on, it's set to dynamic mode and none of my settings are saved.

Any idea how to set it back to normal home use?

The answer is on Samsung's support website. I think you hold down the menu button for 5 seconds or something...

The answer is on Samsung's support website. I think you hold down the menu button for 5 seconds or something...

Thank you

You should hang out in the video processors forum here at avs.


You are incorrect, however, in your description of video deinterlacing. First there is no such thing as 1080p30. 2 fields of video shot in 1080i60 cannot be combined into one frame since the video itself is shot in an interlaced format. In order to "properly" de-interlace video you have to have a very good video processor like the Silicon Optix Reon that is featured in toshibas new HD-XA2 HD DVD player. One LCD that has the Reon is made my Olevia. I suggest you read that forum.

So does the Samsung have a very good video processor, and if not how does it in fact deal with deinterlacing video?

if you don't care about the price.. get a GamerFuel D-link router.. great range, decent price. Optimally you'll want to connect via Ehternet as opposed to wirelessly, but either will work.

Once you get it, Read the manual so you can understand and use it's features.


/edit Oops.. I meant D-link. That's the one I have. Linksys are the cisco soho routers.. stay away from them.
i like to know what do you mean by optimally i want to connect via ethernet as opposed to wirelessly isnt that the point to connect wirelessly? can you be more specific please

So does the Samsung have a very good video processor, and if not how does it in fact deal with deinterlacing video?

It's average. If you look back at my posts on this thread I haven't been thrilled with SD programming on my 4095. I sit about 7 feet away so I see all the warts. Anyways, I am looking at getting an external video processor like the Key Digital isync. There was a power buy here at avs to get them for $700, but I am not sure if they are still available.

In addition to de-interlacing you also have to be concerned about digital compression artifacts like mosquito noise and block artifacts. There are separate devices like the Algolith Flea that reduce compression noise.

In other words, you could get the Samsung over the Sony and use the difference to buy an isync which would de-interlace and scale all your sources(cable/satellite, xbox, dvd, hd-dvd, etc.)

It's average. If you look back at my posts on this thread I haven't been thrilled with SD programming on my 4095. I sit about 7 feet away so I see all the warts. Anyways, I am looking at getting an external video processor like the Key Digital isync. There was a power buy here at avs to get them for $700, but I am not sure if they are still available.

In addition to de-interlacing you also have to be concerned about digital compression artifacts like mosquito noise and block artifacts. There are separate devices like the Algolith Flea that reduce compression noise.

In other words, you could get the Samsung over the Sony and use the difference to buy an isync which would de-interlace and scale all your sources(cable/satellite, xbox, dvd, hd-dvd, etc.)
ok are you saying the sony xbr version 2 or 3 you dont see the mosquito noise, block artifacts etc.. ????

i like to know what do you mean by optimally i want to connect via ethernet as opposed to wirelessly isnt that the point to connect wirelessly? can you be more specific please

Preferrably, you want to use the Ethernet connection for your Xbox as opposed to the Wireless connection. But you can use either.

What I was suggesting is that if you're going to spend money on a gaming router, you should learn to use it's features so you're not just throwing your money away. If you don't learn how and use it's features, then you might as well just get a cheaper one.

ok are you saying the sony xbr version 2 or 3 you dont see the mosquito noise, block artifacts etc.. ????

No. When I bought the 4095 the Sony's weren't even on the market. My point was that people always compare the Samsungs and the Sonys. As I understand it, the main advantages other posters say the Sony has is 1:1 pixel mapping and better processing. My point was simply that for the price difference between the two you could purchase an external processor that would be better than either one.

Preferrably, you want to use the Ethernet connection for your Xbox as opposed to the Wireless connection. But you can use either.

What I was suggesting is that if you're going to spend money on a gaming router, you should learn to use it's features so you're not just throwing your money away. If you don't learn how and use it's features, then you might as well just get a cheaper one.
i see when you say features how many features does this router has other than gaming the main reason i would like to buy for to my understanding this router is great for gaming and i would like to purchase something that is reliable so i wont have any interfearance with my gaming experiance. and if you say something cheaper would you recommend for me that does the same job as the DGL4300 router, if possible just for gaming purpuses.

No. When I bought the 4095 the Sony's weren't even on the market. My point was that people always compare the Samsungs and the Sonys. As I understand it, the main advantages other posters say the Sony has is 1:1 pixel mapping and better processing. My point was simply that for the price difference between the two you could purchase an external processor that would be better than either one.
uhhh ok you scared me to tell you the truth i have the 4096D model and im happy and i thought you are saying the xbr 2,3 are had a better video graphics than my sammy becasue when i went and compare them and i have doen tons and tons of research online and in the stores i dont see much differance as far color clearity etc.. except for the 1:1mapping that is the only acutally noticable differance that saw, and the major main problem also pushed me not to get the xbr is that doesnt swivel and i need to swivel that was important. Now i heard the 07 models the high end im talking about that they are going to have 120hz frame per sec. i wonder is that going to be much differant as far as fast frame shots?

My 4696 image is not as clear and vivid as the 4051 I had, When my comuter is hooked up
I get a horizontal line going from top to bottom on the screen, my pictures are not as clear
also I find it has trouble focusing. Its a good picture in a way but in other ways the 4051
was more clear. This one is good with 1080 imput but not so good with the High def I receive
by Satelite. I am going to brinmg it back and take my 4051 I had just because I was happy with that one and maybe The clouding thing is what I have. Is that fixable by a technician
or not. I am discourage because I was hoping for the same clear picture on a bigger screen
But this is not the case. When somthing aint broke Why try to get better, I am wondering if my problem is just an ajustment of the native 1080i getting converted to 1080p making a mess of things.
Help

contnd.
Its like what is in the center and up front is clear, But surrounding stuff and background is more blurry than on my previous one. Lets say I was viewing hockey. On the other set if they showed the crowd all rows and individual faces were real clear, onThis one some of the rows get blurry.

please help now im trying to decide for my wireless router if i should go for the D-Link DGL 4300 or the apple new (AirPort Extreme Base Station) that has a new 802.11n technolegy? and if i should care i would like some recomendations or sugestions regarding those two routers.

I'm caught between the 4095 and the 4092... I do plan to do a fair amount of gaming/blu-ray watching, being a college student (I've saved) I'd like to save some money, but that extra $400 for 1080p sounds spicy... I don't want to be later regretting not getting the 95d... any recommendations?

Worked out a deal and got the 4695D for $100 more than what i was going to get the 4095D for.....i absolutely love it.

I have a new Samsung LN-S4696d and have found these settings best for HD and SD channels on Cablevision, trying to get best black detail without making the picture too dark. The most helpful advice was the calibration done by Bill at calman.com for the LN-S4095, plus the calibration done by CNET and posted on their review. In addition, one of the AVS forum posters had a great correction for the greenish cast to the picture.
Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off
Noise control off
Film Mode On

I am using a cablecard and get excellent picture quality on HD and digital channels, and surprisingly good picture on most analogue channels.

I turned the annoying blue light off and the silly melody off. The sound is surpisingly good for a TV, although if it is your main one I recommend the YSP800 or YSP 1100 with a Subwoofer. I use the sammy in our master bedroom, and in the Great Room I have a Toshiba 37hl96 with a YSP800 and a Dynamo subwoofer. It really rocks for the HDTV programs.

please help now im trying to decide for my wireless router if i should go for the D-Link DGL 4300 or the apple new (AirPort Extreme Base Station) that has a new 802.11n technolegy? and if i should care i would like some recomendations or sugestions regarding those two routers.

I would suggest that you find a more appropriate forum for questions about Wireless gear or perhaps do some research on your own. I gave you the answer, yet you choose to ignore it. Continually posting about off-topic subjects will probably make some people upset.

I have a new Samsung LN-S4696d and have found these settings best for HD and SD channels on Cablevision, trying to get best black detail without making the picture too dark. The most helpful advice was the calibration done by Bill at calman.com for the LN-S4095, plus the calibration done by CNET and posted on their review. In addition, one of the AVS forum posters had a great correction for the greenish cast to the picture.
Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off
Noise control off
Film Mode On

I am using a cablecard and get excellent picture quality on HD and digital channels, and surprisingly good picture on most analogue channels.

I turned the annoying blue light off and the silly melody off. The sound is surpisingly good for a TV, although if it is your main one I recommend the YSP800 or YSP 1100 with a Subwoofer. I use the sammy in our master bedroom, and in the Great Room I have a Toshiba 37hl96 with a YSP800 and a Dynamo subwoofer. It really rocks for the HDTV programs.

I am trying these settings now and it looks good..maybe a tad high in contrast and a tad low in sharpness........where did you find the settings on Cnet?

Go with the new airport extreme n is very important.
please help now im trying to decide for my wireless router if i should go for the D-Link DGL 4300 or the apple new (AirPort Extreme Base Station) that has a new 802.11n technolegy? and if i should care i would like some recomendations or sugestions regarding those two routers.

please help now im trying to decide for my wireless router if i should go for the D-Link DGL 4300 or the apple new (AirPort Extreme Base Station) that has a new 802.11n technolegy? and if i should care i would like some recomendations or sugestions regarding those two routers.

I have the DGL 4300 and have had zero problems. It's a great wireless router!!

I am trying these settings now and it looks good..maybe a tad high in contrast and a tad low in sharpness........where did you find the settings on Cnet?

CNET reviewed the LN-S4096d including settings at http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_LN_S4096D/4505-6482_7-31954846.html?tag=pdtl-list

Back to Discussing TV's eh?

I just purchased the 4095d -- are the calibration discs necessary for this tv? do cheap hdmi cables suffice?

Thanks

Back to Discussing TV's eh?

I just purchased the 4095d -- are the calibration discs necessary for this tv? do cheap hdmi cables suffice?

Thanks

No idea on the calibration discs.

Inexpensive HDMI cables do the exact same as the outrageously priced cables. HDMI Licensing will even tell you that.

Go with the new airport extreme n is very important.
can you explain to me why the N is important in detail please?

Because n has higher bandwidth.

Sorry to vent like this, but I have a hard time believing the number of off topic, lazy, and/or self-centered posts contained in this and the Owner's thread.
Just look at 3582, above. Earlier today, one poster asked that the topic be moved to a more appropriate thread, but the posts related to wireless routers continued. The question asked in 3582 could have been answered within about 10 seconds by typing "802.11n" into Google, but apparently that would require more effort into reading about wireless standards than the poster cared to invest.
How many questions have you seen on this (or the owner's thread) asking questions that are specifically addressed in the owner's manual, or could be found with a couple minutes of searching on the Samsung site?
How about those who post asking for calibration settings, then complain when those don't look right for them?
How many times does it need to be posted that you don't need to buy expensive HDMI cables?
And folks who repeat their questions two or more times because they haven't received an answer? Certainly, this forum is for sharing information, but sometimes you have to show that you've expended a little effort.
Read the manual.
Search the thread before asking specific questions. If you don't find the answer right away, change the search terms and try again.
You just spent more than $2K (and maybe a lot more) for a TV, buy a $25 or $50 calibration disk - it's not going to break the bank, and it will give you settings for your particular situation.
And try to use proper grammar and punctuation. Nothing screams "I'm lazy" more than a bunch of run on sentences. My five year old writes better than that.

I can't wait to see the responses.

Sorry to vent like this, but I have a hard time believing the number of off topic, lazy, and/or self-centered posts contained in this and the Owner's thread.
Just look at 3582, above. Earlier today, one poster asked that the topic be moved to a more appropriate thread, but the posts related to wireless routers continued. The question asked in 3582 could have been answered within about 10 seconds by typing "802.11n" into Google, but apparently that would require more effort into reading about wireless standards than the poster cared to invest.
How many questions have you seen on this (or the owner's thread) asking questions that are specifically addressed in the owner's manual, or could be found with a couple minutes of searching on the Samsung site?
How about those who post asking for calibration settings, then complain when those don't look right for them?
How many times does it need to be posted that you don't need to buy expensive HDMI cables?
And folks who repeat their questions two or more times because they haven't received an answer? Certainly, this forum is for sharing information, but sometimes you have to show that you've expended a little effort.
Read the manual.
Search the thread before asking specific questions. If you don't find the answer right away, change the search terms and try again.
You just spent more than $2K (and maybe a lot more) for a TV, buy a $25 or $50 calibration disk - it's not going to break the bank, and it will give you settings for your particular situation.
And try to use proper grammar and punctuation. Nothing screams "I'm lazy" more than a bunch of run on sentences. My five year old writes better than that.

I can't wait to see the responses.
why do you care what other people questions? its an open forum why not expand the knowledge. and ask questions, dont underestimate the posters here of their research they do research and are not lazy. the reason for thier questioners is to get other people opnions and share knowledge is as simple as that. (widen the horizons of info.)


P.S dont make fun of my run on sentences loool

Because n has higher bandwidth.
so do you recomend the new apple base station extreme over the d link game fuel technolegy router?

I have a new Samsung LN-S4696d and have found these settings best for HD and SD channels on Cablevision, trying to get best black detail without making the picture too dark. The most helpful advice was the calibration done by Bill at calman.com for the LN-S4095, plus the calibration done by CNET and posted on their review. In addition, one of the AVS forum posters had a great correction for the greenish cast to the picture.
Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off
Noise control off
Film Mode On

I am using a cablecard and get excellent picture quality on HD and digital channels, and surprisingly good picture on most analogue channels.

I turned the annoying blue light off and the silly melody off. The sound is surpisingly good for a TV, although if it is your main one I recommend the YSP800 or YSP 1100 with a Subwoofer. I use the sammy in our master bedroom, and in the Great Room I have a Toshiba 37hl96 with a YSP800 and a Dynamo subwoofer. It really rocks for the HDTV programs.
ok i love your calibriation but for the sharpness i have to disagree i put it to "70-75" and color temp. "normal" every thing else is the same which is great i like it better than before it was just the dynamic setting. Now i have a question does that also include hd dvd, blue ray movies for this calibration ?

Is it me or the remote control responds slowly. It seems too sluggish sometimes on my 4696

Is it me or the remote control responds slowly. It seems too sluggish sometimes on my 4696
i agree with you 100% i dont know why that is and it really bugs.

deleted by Mod

rude, bashing posts like this violate AVS rules

i agree with you 100% i dont know why that is and it really bugs.

Anyone else experiencing similar issues?

Please stop posting about gaming routers in a thread about samsung TVs.

Please.

Pretty please.

Some of us subscribe to these threads so that we can catch the latest posts and it's very frustrating to come back and read the latest posts only to see that the talk isn't about the TV at all.

Please...

Is it me or the remote control responds slowly. It seems too sluggish sometimes on my 4696Is it the remote or the tuner? When I change a channel, I see a little blue flash in the "eye" right away, so I know the remote did it's thing. But the tuner takes a while to act. And on anything but changing channels, it's quick. So I don't think it's the remote.

I'm not sure whether all HDTV tuners are slowish.

Because n has higher bandwidth.

Extra bandwidth which no one will ever see unless they are paying some ridiculously high price for extra bandwidth they don't need. In fact, I have never even heard of a cable/dsl provider that allows 108mbs. I have Time Warner and am only allowed 5mbs. My vote goes to the dgl-4300 - it has game fuel and gigabit lan. Tango, cool it. The fact that the occasional off topic posts upset you so much only further gave me reason to post off topic. Take a pill.

Oh, and so as not to remain off topic, I compared the Samsung to the Sony KDL-46XBR2 the other day. The Sony had a softer looking picture, though no detail was lost. I did however see the clouding effect that everyone speaks off. IMO, the Sony is the better of the two but barely. Take into account the clouding issue and the price difference of around $600 (depending on who you purchase from), the Samsung looks better and better every day. Has anyone else done direct comparisons?

Is it me or the remote control responds slowly. It seems too sluggish sometimes on my 4696

My remote responds slowly on my 4695D which is basically the same monitor minus a few bells and whistles.

I have a new Samsung LN-S4696d and have found these settings best for HD and SD channels on Cablevision, trying to get best black detail without making the picture too dark. The most helpful advice was the calibration done by Bill ... for the LN-S4095, plus the calibration done by CNET and posted on their review. In addition, one of the AVS forum posters had a great correction for the greenish cast to the picture.

Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off
Noise control off
Film Mode On

I am using a cablecard and get excellent picture quality on HD and digital channels, and surprisingly good picture on most analogue channels.


We've had the 4695D for almost two weeks. I WAS planning to return it ... primarily due to misinformation from the DirectTV installer who said that Samsung LCDs can never connect to their HR-20 HD-DVR receiver through a HDMI cable. So I didn't experiment much.
But this weekend, with suggestions from a CircuitCity salesman, I was finally able to make the HDMI connection work. Although we don't like the reflections off the "piano black" border, I think we will keep this TV now.

I'd like to try out your suggested settings.
I found a few items under Picture, a few under Setup, some greyed out, and others I didn't find.

How should one begin to change all these settings?
Do you need to change the P-Mode to Custom before trying to change settings?
(And if not too much trouble, would you mind reordering your list grouping things found under Picture, things found under Setup, etc.?)

I watch several hours a day of network TV, which comes through DirectTV in Standard Definition and doesn't look great. (Only CBS is available here OTA.)
Any suggestions for making Std. Def look its best on these TVs?

Is anyone having problem hooking up the sammy to their xbox360? i'm getting a unsupported format/signal message.

Or can someone please direct me to a thread..thank you.

ok i do have the 4096D but the question "is it a good idea to turn of the DNle"? i tryed it but I think it makes the picture look a bit washed out or im I wrong? please help

i like the calibration that was posted earlier but i just came back from frys and i was directly compairing the song xbr 2 with 96d and i saw the sony a bit brighter and a bit crisper. like i mentioned when i turn the DNle off the picture a bit look washed out does anyone here have a sugestion for a new calibration mabe?

Hi everyone, been reading these forums for years, but only just recently finally picked out a new LCD and found the 4696 to be unbeatable for the price. But one of the main reasons I wanted it was to be able to run my Xbox 360 through the VGA connection in 1080p, only i can't get any VGA signal from the 360 to work on this set. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix? I know some say the VGA connection washes everything out, but I still find its clarity to be better on other sets than the component. I would hate to have to return the set for another brand...

Thanks for any help you folks can give.

Mike

Hi everyone, been reading these forums for years, but only just recently finally picked out a new LCD and found the 4696 to be unbeatable for the price. But one of the main reasons I wanted it was to be able to run my Xbox 360 through the VGA connection in 1080p, only i can't get any VGA signal from the 360 to work on this set. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix? I know some say the VGA connection washes everything out, but I still find its clarity to be better on other sets than the component. I would hate to have to return the set for another brand...

Thanks for any help you folks can give.

Mike

can you get any signal from your xbox? did you try from your pc as well? I have a 360 but use my VGA for my laptop (1080p), but use Component for my 360 (also 1080p).

Yah I thought about the PC test after i posted, so i gave it a shot and it works fine, goes into 1080p as expected. Im just wondering if its my TV, or just a fault of this model. Is there any chance you could test your 360 through VGA and see if it works for you?

I even broke out a dreamcast w/ VGA and that worked, so it must be something wrong with they way the 360 is outputting its signal, but it seems wierd when I have read the 360 VGA works on older models..... And i have other TVs (a sharp) that the VGA works with....

Thanks again for the help!
Mike

Yah I thought about the PC test after i posted, so i gave it a shot and it works fine, goes into 1080p as expected. Im just wondering if its my TV, or just a fault of this model. Is there any chance you could test your 360 through VGA and see if it works for you?

I even broke out a dreamcast w/ VGA and that worked, so it must be something wrong with they way the 360 is outputting its signal, but it seems wierd when I have read the 360 VGA works on older models..... And i have other TVs (a sharp) that the VGA works with....

Thanks again for the help!
Mike

I have a 4695D and I had problems at first. I found out that the Samsung panel only supports 4:3 resolutions except for the 1920x1080p setting. My computer monitor didn't support 1080p resolution so I dialed in the 360 to one of the 4:3 resolutions(I think it was 1280x1024) while on the pc monitor and then after hooking it back up to the Samsung it was recognized. I then went into the 360 menu while on the Samsung and changed it to 1920x1080. Mine seems washed out like you were talking about. I've made changes in the backlighting and contrast controls but it still seems washed out.

Yah I thought about the PC test after i posted, so i gave it a shot and it works fine, goes into 1080p as expected. Im just wondering if its my TV, or just a fault of this model. Is there any chance you could test your 360 through VGA and see if it works for you?

I even broke out a dreamcast w/ VGA and that worked, so it must be something wrong with they way the 360 is outputting its signal, but it seems wierd when I have read the 360 VGA works on older models..... And i have other TVs (a sharp) that the VGA works with....

Thanks again for the help!
Mike

I have a 4095 - not sure which model you said you had. Anyway, I tried it and it works fine. I happened to have the VGA cable lying around because I used to play my 360 on my computer LCD.

I honestly thought that the component looked better than the VGA, but I didn't tweak anything.

We've had the 4695D for almost two weeks. I WAS planning to return it ... primarily due to misinformation from the DirectTV installer who said that Samsung LCDs can never connect to their HR-20 HD-DVR receiver through a HDMI cable. So I didn't experiment much.
But this weekend, with suggestions from a CircuitCity salesman, I was finally able to make the HDMI connection work. Although we don't like the reflections off the "piano black" border, I think we will keep this TV now.

I'd like to try out your suggested settings.
I found a few items under Picture, a few under Setup, some greyed out, and others I didn't find.

How should one begin to change all these settings?
Do you need to change the P-Mode to Custom before trying to change settings?
(And if not too much trouble, would you mind reordering your list grouping things found under Picture, things found under Setup, etc.?)

I watch several hours a day of network TV, which comes through DirectTV in Standard Definition and doesn't look great. (Only CBS is available here OTA.)
Any suggestions for making Std. Def look its best on these TVs?

These settings will improve SD channels, and be sure to turn down sharpness too.
Most all of these settings are under picture or setup. If you can't find them, click on menu map and it lists everything that can be done and where it is located. Yes, I make many of these changes under custom, so as not to change the defaults for standard, dynamic and movie. For what its worth, many posters on this forum say that Direct TV uses more compression than the cable companies and has a lower quality picture. You might check out what others say about your local cable company picture quality vs. Direct TV both for SD and HD channels.

i like the calibration that was posted earlier but i just came back from frys and i was directly compairing the song xbr 2 with 96d and i saw the sony a bit brighter and a bit crisper. like i mentioned when i turn the DNle off the picture a bit look washed out does anyone here have a sugestion for a new calibration mabe?

Have you tried warm 2 and if still a bit to bland, boost the color a wee bit.

Sorry to vent like this, but I have a hard time believing the number of off topic, lazy, and/or self-centered posts contained in this and the Owner's thread.
Just look at 3582, above. Earlier today, one poster asked that the topic be moved to a more appropriate thread, but the posts related to wireless routers continued. The question asked in 3582 could have been answered within about 10 seconds by typing "802.11n" into Google, but apparently that would require more effort into reading about wireless standards than the poster cared to invest.
How many questions have you seen on this (or the owner's thread) asking questions that are specifically addressed in the owner's manual, or could be found with a couple minutes of searching on the Samsung site?
How about those who post asking for calibration settings, then complain when those don't look right for them?
How many times does it need to be posted that you don't need to buy expensive HDMI cables?
And folks who repeat their questions two or more times because they haven't received an answer? Certainly, this forum is for sharing information, but sometimes you have to show that you've expended a little effort.
Read the manual.
Search the thread before asking specific questions. If you don't find the answer right away, change the search terms and try again.
You just spent more than $2K (and maybe a lot more) for a TV, buy a $25 or $50 calibration disk - it's not going to break the bank, and it will give you settings for your particular situation.
And try to use proper grammar and punctuation. Nothing screams "I'm lazy" more than a bunch of run on sentences. My five year old writes better than that.

I can't wait to see the responses.

Well, I have to jump in and say..do you have a gf or a woman (if not GET ONE FAST)? It seems to me you're a little too concerned about things you shouldn't be. It's not that serious man..take it easy and let others get help however they can. It helps to be nice to others once a year or so and help someone that needs advice.

ok i have a sweet calibriation for you guys you should ckeck it out and tell me what you think i suggest to try this new calibration. you will thank me trust me.

Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 35, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 50
Tint 50
Sharpness 75
Color Temp normal (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off
Noise control off
Film Mode On

Lilstinky that worked perfect! Thanks for the tip. Odd that it won't recognize the 1080p signal straight away, but its working now. Thanks again to everyone for the help!

Mike

Is it me or the remote control responds slowly. It seems too sluggish sometimes on my 4696

Ditto. My 4696 remote is very difficult to use. It's certainly not for family or general users. Only masochistic TV geeks like us.

1. Very Narrow Beam: My remote has to be aimed almost dead at the blue eye. It only works when aimed within -10 / +10 degrees left/right and 0 / -10 degrees up/down. That is, I have to aim left/right very closely and can't aim above the eye at all, only a little below.

2. Very Slow Operation: When I do manage to get the remote to hit the eye, then you have to hold the buttons for a second so the commands repeat a few times (blue eye flashes 2-3 times). The action the executes. Very tedious and very disappointing.

3. Unusual Blue Light Action: An unusual behaviour with no negative effect is that the blue eye on the TV flashes whenever I press a button on all but one of my many remotes. The 4696 correctly only responds to its own remote. It is the remote for the DirecTV HDR20-700 HDTV DVR that does not flash the light. It's just unusual.

The batteries are fresh and meter test as full strength. The remote worked this way from the 1st day out of the box.

I started using a Harmony 880. It works a lot better for distance and beam. However I've noticed that the light flashes on the TV for my cable box and reciever as well. Very odd. Would be nice if you could turn it off completely.

i need help can you tell me which is better the DNle on or off and is there much differance of the picture quality??

Lilstinky that worked perfect! Thanks for the tip. Odd that it won't recognize the 1080p signal straight away, but its working now. Thanks again to everyone for the help!

Mike

Yeah, you would think this set would recognize any widescreen resolution but the only one it does is 1920x1080. I had the 360 set to 1280x720 on my old tv and couldn't get any screen with the new Samsung. The instruction manual gives a chart of the supported resolutions.

I have the 4695D and a couple of things I've noticed/don't like when running the 360 through the VGA input. First the screen looks a little washed out when running with the VGA cable compared to the other inputs such as component. The second thing thats been bugging me is the soft picture. The sharpness control is locked out when in vga mode and my 360 looks soft when running games or HD-DVD movies. Its not very bad but I would love to turn up the sharpness. I've found that dynamic has the highest sharpness setting but its still not dialed all the way up. One other thing... the pianno edge is driving me nuts during the daytime just about all reflections are grabbing my attention.

do these lcds have and video game lag for like guitar hero or other time based games?

I have the 4695D and a couple of things I've noticed/don't like when running the 360 through the VGA input. First the screen looks a little washed out when running with the VGA cable compared to the other inputs such as component. The second thing thats been bugging me is the soft picture. The sharpness control is locked out when in vga mode and my 360 looks soft when running games or HD-DVD movies. Its not very bad but I would love to turn up the sharpness. I've found that dynamic has the highest sharpness setting but its still not dialed all the way up. One other thing... the pianno edge is driving me nuts during the daytime just about all reflections are grabbing my attention.

If you'll change the input to another one (like DTV) that allows you to change the sharpness for your settings, when you change back to VGA the changes will still be in effect as long as you're using the same mode. At least this works on my 4051.

do these lcds have and video game lag for like guitar hero or other time based games?

I have not noticed any lag at all and I play a TON of games. I realize how sensitive people are to this can vary from person to person...but honestly I have not noticed it in any game at all.

i need help can you tell me which is better the DNle on or off and is there much differance of the picture quality??

I would suggest playing with that demo option as it really illustrates the difference. After the first few weeks I can tell you DNIE has only been on in animated movies. Other than that every single viewing situation has looked better to me with it off.

I like DNle option i think it makes things look clearer for example the game for the 360 i look much sharper and better with it on. does anyone here think so to.?

I just bought a 50' HDMI/DVI cable (and a TOSLINK) so I can connect my PC to my 4696. Needed a cable that long as it runs through the walls/attic. My plan is to buy a wireless mouse so I can operate the PC (which is in another room) from my living room. I should be able to play games and watch DVDs and HD content stored on my PC on the 4696. I'll hook the PC up to the TV via the HDMI port.

I'll let you know how it goes in case anyone is interested.

I started using a Harmony 880. It works a lot better for distance and beam. However I've noticed that the light flashes on the TV for my cable box and reciever as well. Very odd. Would be nice if you could turn it off completely.

yeah, mine does that too. my 4695 sees the signal.

I cant seem to find anything about this specific samsung model....LN-S4041D....Does anyone have any suggestions or experiences with this model and how was it?

can anyone here provide a good calibration with the DNle on?

On my 4095D, with DNIE on I'm using:

Contrast: 76
Brightness: 51
Color: 72
Tint: 48
Tone: Normal

I just bought a 50' HDMI/DVI cable (and a TOSLINK) so I can connect my PC to my 4696. Needed a cable that long as it runs through the walls/attic. My plan is to buy a wireless mouse so I can operate the PC (which is in another room) from my living room. I should be able to play games and watch DVDs and HD content stored on my PC on the 4696. I'll hook the PC up to the TV via the HDMI port.

I'll let you know how it goes in case anyone is interested.

I am interested. I was told that most wireless mice/keyboards really don't have that much range to work with a computer in another room. Let us know how it works out for you.

I just got a 4095. I have DirecTV but no HD yet.

1) Is SD content broadcast in 4:3? When I watch it in 16:9 everyone looks fat and stretched. Will this go away when I have HD and watch it in 16:9?

2) The PQ looked great via HD broadcast at the store. At home with SD it doesn't look so great. It's seems blurry or something at times, almost out of focus. Is this just because its a 1080p being fed with SD content?

3) Since I dont have HD yet I just want to use the red, yellow, white (are these called Component Cables?) cables. What order do I go in for a DVD Player, VCR, Direct TV receiver/tivo, and TV?

4)I guess Im just worried that my TV is a lemon and by the time I get HD it will be past the 30 day return period. I need reassurance that the poor PQ is only because I'm watching SD.

Thanks all, I'm upset about this!!!!

I started using a Harmony 880. It works a lot better for distance and beam. However I've noticed that the light flashes on the TV for my cable box and reciever as well. Very odd. Would be nice if you could turn it off completely.
i guess i will go out and buy myself a universal remote

Hi folks,

I just bought a 4695D to replace my Sharp LC-45GD4U that appears to be developing a Mura problem. So far, I really like the Samsung...although my wife insists that the Sharp displayed SD channels better than the Samsung. I'll try some of the suggested settings found in this thread to see if it improves.

I do have a question/problem though.

The set is mounted on the wall and the fed by two 16' component cables. I installed these cables when the house was built...and would have installed HDMI cables instead, but the Explorer 8100HD (Time Warner Cable) I had at the time didn't support HDMI. I now have an Explorer 8300HD and it supports both. The other component cable connects to my Sony DVD player.

When using the 8300HD (both live and recorded HD) I sometimes see horizontal lines about 0.5" to 0.75" apart running through the entire picture. I've also seen the same lines switch position and run diagonal for a while. It seems to depend on what the picture is at that very moment because scenes can change and the lines disappear...only to come back on another scene.

When using the Sony DVD play, I can stop the disk and leave the Sony's blue, water-like background on...and I notice some flickering or slight rolling of the picture near the lower right-hand side.

In both cases, the Sharp NEVER showed this behavior. I'm not defending the Sharp in a Samsung thread...in fact I hate the Sharp at this point due to its other problems. However, it never had THESE issues.

Is this an issue with the component cables? Is the Samsung having trouble syncing on this component inputs? Is there some way to adjust the component input sensitivity? The only piece in my entire setup that has changed is the TV itself…so its got to be something with the Samsung (or the Sharp was just better at handling this).

Like I said, the lines aren't always there...but they are definitely there a lot and on every resolution I've tried. If I could get get rid of these, I'd be all set. As a whole, the picture quality and brightness is MUCH better on the 4695D.

Thanks!

I just got a 4095. I have DirecTV but no HD yet.

1) Is SD content broadcast in 4:3? When I watch it in 16:9 everyone looks fat and stretched. Will this go away when I have HD and watch it in 16:9?

2) The PQ looked great via HD broadcast at the store. At home with SD it doesn't look so great. It's seems blurry or something at times, almost out of focus. Is this just because its a 1080p being fed with SD content?

3) Since I dont have HD yet I just want to use the red, yellow, white (are these called Component Cables?) cables. What order do I go in for a DVD Player, VCR, Direct TV receiver/tivo, and TV?

4)I guess Im just worried that my TV is a lemon and by the time I get HD it will be past the 30 day return period. I need reassurance that the poor PQ is only because I'm watching SD.

Thanks all, I'm upset about this!!!!

I was in the same boat, I got the TV and had to wait a while for the Direct TV HD.

1. SD is in 4:3. If you set the TV to stretch, it does exactly that and everyone will look a little fatter. Either get used to it, or set it back to 4:3. When you get the HD channels, it will automatically put them at wide screen.

2. SD look pretty bad on my set until I got the new receiver and changed from composite cables to HDMI. I don't know if it was the new receiver, new dish, MUCH better cables or some combination, but I know that the Yellow/Red/White cables are the worst in terms of PQ.

3. Your choice I guess. I use HDMI 1 for Direct TV, Component 1 for my 360 (which is also my DvD player) and Component 2 for the PS2. Definitely upgrade from composite to Component cables at the least, and HDMI if your hardware has a HDMI out.

4. Get HD as soon as possible, and better cables (not necessarily expensive, just better type) before you make the decision. If you have a friend with a 360, PS3 or something higher tech, have them bring it over and hook it up to the TV.

I just got a 4095. I have DirecTV but no HD yet.

1) Is SD content broadcast in 4:3? When I watch it in 16:9 everyone looks fat and stretched. Will this go away when I have HD and watch it in 16:9?

2) The PQ looked great via HD broadcast at the store. At home with SD it doesn't look so great. It's seems blurry or something at times, almost out of focus. Is this just because its a 1080p being fed with SD content?

3) Since I dont have HD yet I just want to use the red, yellow, white (are these called Component Cables?) cables. What order do I go in for a DVD Player, VCR, Direct TV receiver/tivo, and TV?

4)I guess Im just worried that my TV is a lemon and by the time I get HD it will be past the 30 day return period. I need reassurance that the poor PQ is only because I'm watching SD.

Thanks all, I'm upset about this!!!!

There is nothing wrong with your TV. It is capable of a surprisingly good picture on SD, better than the SONY which is generally known to be worse on SD. Many posters in this forum seem to think that the ultra compressed signal on direct TV is of lower quality than from a cable company. The highest quality is received using a cablecard, which I don't think is an option for Direct TV, is it?

All HDTVs seem to have a worse picture quality on SD channels than the old fashioned direct view CRT sets. However, my Samsung LN-S4696d has really good picture quality on most SD channels, using a cablecard and cablevision.

While you are waiting for the HD channels, try my settings which are designed to give the best overall picture quality for both analogue and HD channels, and let us know if it helps:
Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off (you should experiment with this, most like it off)
Noise control off
Film Mode On

I have the 4695d and I could not be happier. Thank you for all the info on the forum to help me make the right decision.

Ape Out.

I will try all of that and report back. Also, I searched Samsungs site but can't figure out the answer here or there. It's in Shop mode. When I hold down menu on the tv it puts it in "Dynamic" mode. Shouldnt there be a "Home" mode or is that what Dynamic means.

Thanks!

I will try all of that and report back. Also, I searched Samsungs site but can't figure out the answer here or there. It's in Shop mode. When I hold down menu on the tv it puts it in "Dynamic" mode. Shouldnt there be a "Home" mode or is that what Dynamic means.

Thanks!

From page 15 of the manual:
If the unit is accidentally set to Shop Mode, press and hold the MENU
button on the side panel of the TV for five seconds to return to Dynamic
(Home) mode.

Sweet thanks.

There is nothing wrong with your TV. It is capable of a surprisingly good picture on SD, better than the SONY which is generally known to be worse on SD. Many posters in this forum seem to think that the ultra compressed signal on direct TV is of lower quality than from a cable company. The highest quality is received using a cablecard, which I don't think is an option for Direct TV, is it?

All HDTVs seem to have a worse picture quality on SD channels than the old fashioned direct view CRT sets. However, my Samsung LN-S4696d has really good picture quality on most SD channels, using a cablecard and cablevision.

While you are waiting for the HD channels, try my settings which are designed to give the best overall picture quality for both analogue and HD channels, and let us know if it helps:
Energy Savings Medium
Color weakness "on", green set to "2"
Custom Mode
Set brightness to 34, then turn contrast all the way up to 100
Color 45
Tint 50
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Warm2 (personal preference, try the others too)
DNIE off (you should experiment with this, most like it off)
Noise control off
Film Mode On

My film mode is blacked out even when i switch picture settings.. Just got the tv a few days ago and still tweaking with the basic setings.

I just got a 4095. I have DirecTV but no HD yet.

1) Is SD content broadcast in 4:3? When I watch it in 16:9 everyone looks fat and stretched. Will this go away when I have HD and watch it in 16:9?

2) The PQ looked great via HD broadcast at the store. At home with SD it doesn't look so great. It's seems blurry or something at times, almost out of focus. Is this just because its a 1080p being fed with SD content?

3) Since I dont have HD yet I just want to use the red, yellow, white (are these called Component Cables?) cables. What order do I go in for a DVD Player, VCR, Direct TV receiver/tivo, and TV?

4)I guess Im just worried that my TV is a lemon and by the time I get HD it will be past the 30 day return period. I need reassurance that the poor PQ is only because I'm watching SD.

Thanks all, I'm upset about this!!!!

1) Yes, all SD is 4:3, although some shows are letterboxed in 4:3 (ER, Battlestar Galactica, Dogfights) so if you use the Zoom1 setting they fill the screen in the proper proportions without much being chopped off. HD will show up properly in 16:9.

2) This is normal for SD. Some of it looks pretty good, especially if you've got a decent signal from satellite or digital cable. On the other hand, some of it looks terrible.

3) The red/white/yellow are composite cables, not component. Component are the red/blue/green connections and provide a much higher quality signal than composite. Use component if your source supports it, if not then use s-video. Composite is the lowest quality of the 3 and should be your last resort.

4) I wouldn't worry too much about the TV. It's probably okay. I'd estimate 90% of the problems we see reported here are due to poor signal quality. If you're anywhere near a large city, you should be able to pick up HD signals over the air. It might be as easy as hooking up a $15 rabbit ear antenna. That's what works for me. The PQ is awesome. Check www.antennaweb.org to see what's available where you live.

I cant seem to find anything about this specific samsung model....LN-S4041D....Does anyone have any suggestions or experiences with this model and how was it?

I haven't seen one in person, but I haven't read much good about them. If it's not too much of a difference in cost, step up to the 4051. I have one, and I can't say enough good about it. I love it. Search my posts to see some screenshots I've posted.

I'm looking into buying an LCD tv soon.
I've been looking into the Sharp Aquos and Sony Bravia, but they seem to have problems. Now, I'm looking also at Samsung 46" LCD. Any known problems with those? What should I look for, 4695d? Is there another 46" model? What about the response time, is it an issue for watching sports and such?
Thanks in advance for all the help.

Hello all. I have a question:

Is the 96D line good at deinterlacing 1080i signals to 1080p? I want to know if there is any resolution loss so that the best possible image is reproduced.

Also, does this set do 3:2 pull down properly?

I have searched these forums endlessly and I can't find a concrete answer on this subject.

Thank you,

I have 4695 and I was looking at service menu (mute-1-8-2-power) and found intresting setting under 'Dynamic cotrast'. there are Dynamic CE and Dynamic dimming. I made it 'On' and dynamic CE makes picture much better. This is same as dynamic ce in xbr2. Only problem is I can't save this setting. Any one knows how to save these setings?

can someone post some SD pics.

Thanks all for the awesome replies!

I have another issue. I can't change the channel on the TV itself. I can do it fine through my DirecTV Tivo/receiver but not on the TV. I may have skipped this step on initial setup and cant find how to do it again. I'm not really sure if there is a need but if I want to get the regular channels via antenna or something I can't turn it on any other channel.

Any ideas?

Thanks all for the awesome replies!

I have another issue. I can't change the channel on the TV itself. I can do it fine through my DirecTV Tivo/receiver but not on the TV. I may have skipped this step on initial setup and cant find how to do it again. I'm not really sure if there is a need but if I want to get the regular channels via antenna or something I can't turn it on any other channel.

Any ideas?

I cannot do this either with my Samsung LN-S4695D. I have a 6 yr old Dish Network satellite receiver. I have to use the old Dish remote to change channels. In fact the settings for the channels in the on-screen menu are dithered out gray. They're unclickable and I cannot set them. I asked about this a while back but got no replies.

can someone post some SD pics.
I could take some standard definition pics of my LN-S4695D

I could take some standard definition pics of my LN-S4695D


I too would love to see this.

Mine in SD looks as though almost any movement blurs, even if it isnt fast. It's looks out of focus. Is this also normal and due to SD rather than me having a damaged set?

Hello all. I have a question:

Is the 96D line good at deinterlacing 1080i signals to 1080p? I want to know if there is any resolution loss so that the best possible image is reproduced.

Also, does this set do 3:2 pull down properly?

I have searched these forums endlessly and I can't find a concrete answer on this subject.

Thank you,

Check this out. The lns-4695d failed the deinterlacing test. Very disappointing as this (the 4096d) is one of the sets i'm considering.

http://hdguru.com/?p=17

Check this out. The lns-4695d failed the deinterlacing test. Very disappointing as this (the 4096d) is one of the sets i'm considering.

http://hdguru.com/?p=17

Yeah I know the 4695D fails. It's also been out a full year longer.

I want to know if the 96D series fail as well.

I too would love to see this.


My LN-S4695D

From a 6 yr old DishNetwork satellite setup STANDARD Definition using an S-Video cable.

This is at a distance about 12 feet from the screen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8114.jpg

This is up close about 3 feet from the screen. When I press the "still" button to freeze the scene, it does cause blurring that doesn't exist while watching TV.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8143.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8144.jpg

I do notice some blurring during action scenes when I am up close. But from a distance I don't see it. While shopping for my TV, I made sure I had the sales guy switch to standard definition on each TV I was interested in, so I could compare the SD pictures. What you're discribing is normal for SD broadcasting.

My film mode is blacked out even when i switch picture settings.. Just got the tv a few days ago and still tweaking with the basic setings.
Film mode only is availble when you change the picture settings while tuned to an analogue channel, for some reason.

Thanks for posting those!

I'm looking into buying an LCD tv soon.
I've been looking into the Sharp Aquos and Sony Bravia, but they seem to have problems. Now, I'm looking also at Samsung 46" LCD. Any known problems with those? What should I look for, 4695d? Is there another 46" model? What about the response time, is it an issue for watching sports and such?
Thanks in advance for all the help.


could someone please list the common problems for these tvs. im also interesting in knowing this. ive narrowed it down to this and another tv.

just gotta find a place to buy now,

Same boat here on not able to notice much blurring. I'm a picky person when it comes down to motion blurring.

nice

could someone please list the common problems for these tvs. im also interesting in knowing this. ive narrowed it down to this and another tv.

just gotta find a place to buy now,

What is the other tv you narrowed it to?

ok so far im still not satisfied with the new calibration that i have tested. i need something that will look good with hd dvd movies, hd chanels also i need to find thee perfect setting for gaming such as 360, ps3 bceasue the 96d default gaming mode setting im not satified with it still makes the game look a bit dark, so i need something better and alittle brighter bceause im planning to put the DNle option on at all times so please any suggestions out there for me. thanx

My LN-S4695D

From a 6 yr old DishNetwork satellite setup STANDARD Definition using an S-Video cable.

This is at a distance about 12 feet from the screen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8114.jpg

This is up close about 3 feet from the screen. When I press the "still" button to freeze the scene, it does cause blurring that doesn't exist while watching TV.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8143.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/laurie_lu/IMG_8144.jpg

I do notice some blurring during action scenes when I am up close. But from a distance I don't see it. While shopping for my TV, I made sure I had the sales guy switch to standard definition on each TV I was interested in, so I could compare the SD pictures. What you're discribing is normal for SD broadcasting.
can you tell me what is your calibration that you have your set on and are statisfied with your setting currently have?

I had never owned a hi-def TV, and SD was a real shock when I got my 4696D.

However, with tweaking and exposure, I learned to -- if not love it -- like the picture a lot. I moved my old 36-inch Sony into the bedroom and when I check out SD on that, I see that the old TV is not in any way clearer. The picture is just softer and more diffuse. Like an aging, still beautiful actress filmed through gauze.

Hi-def, by contrast, is unforgiving. This is what SD is and always was. (Speaking of contrast, I find SD best seen with Contrast at 100, Brightness at 0, and Energy Saver on Low.)

I rarely watched network shows before , finding the cable-news shout shows and CSpan more interesting. Now I've started to follow the network series shows because prime-time looks so beautiful in HD. And the morning shows too. Though I much prefer to spend the early AM with CSpan, I find the Today Show on NBC, in particular, staggering in its hi-def precision and, for that reason, find myself sitting through all sorts of nonsense about diets and recipes, just hypnotized by the sheer beauty of the image.

I just recently bought the LN-S4051D which is not 1080p capable. However for an extra $300 the LN-S4095D is 1080p and has a contrast ratio of 6000:1 compared to my tv, a 4000:1. I know that the LN-S4095D is better, but I just wanted to know if its worth an extra $300.

thanks

can you tell me what is your calibration that you have your set on and are statisfied with your setting currently have?

Mode: Custom
Energy Savings: Medium
Color Weakness: on, green set to 2
Brightness: 42
Contrast: 95
Color: 45
Tint: 50
Sharpness:10
Color Temp: Warm1
DNIE: on
Noise control: on
Film Mode: on

It's definately better than what I had it set to a week ago before I discovered these settings. I'm too chicken to enter the sevice menu to make more serious changes. For now, the combination of moving contrast closer to 100 and turning the energy savings to 'medium' seems to be the answer for me. It even hides my white mura streak along the bottom of my screen without sacrificing PQ. Sometimes I prefer the DNIe 'off' when I watch certain programs. But in my pics it was 'on'.

Check this out. The lns-4695d failed the deinterlacing test. Very disappointing as this (the 4096d) is one of the sets i'm considering.


I'm a very happy 4095D owner, so I'm not going to get too wrapped up in this, but can someone explain to me how my PQ is effected by not being able to deinterlace according to the test from the HD Guru?

I understand that the article says I may only be working with half the information, but does that translate to mean my PQ could be twice a good as it is now?

Thanks in advance for any insight on these questions.

I have mine set up to Comcast via hdmi . I noticed when i go to Channel its all grayed out. If I hook up a Antenna, will that ungrey so Ai can get the antenna channels? Is the pic better using 4695d tuner compared to my Comcast?

What I see in those SD shots is some blown highlights. Still the overall PQ is quite good; I find SD to be in certain ways much better than my old CRT (far better blacks).

BTW, blown highlights and blocked up shadows are not easy to deal with. Adjust for one and the other gets "worse." This was the exact same issue years ago in the still image world; until some very complex, multi-step procedures were posted. Then it got dog simple with a single control that could independently adjust both ends. Think of the Shadow/Highlight control in Photoshop. If ANY HD set had that kind of function (that worked) I'd be out there collecting cans to sell back to the supermarket to buy a new set!

Some of that can be due to the camera taking the screenshot too. Whites tend to appear blown out in pics that I take compared to the actual image on the screen. I have a pretty basic digital camera, and when I turn off the flash, it takes a longer exposure automatically, which causes this.

Im a newb witht he 4695D 46 1080p Samsung and Im using a HDMI cable with COmcast STB

Can someone please help witht these issues

Still cant turn on film mode, another poster said to change to an anolog channel? How wuld I do that?

Is anyone using the HD tuner built inop this tv instead of direct tv or comcast? If so, how does the tuner compare witht hd cmcast box? WOyuld I just need an antenna?

The pic is great in HD but SD it loosk like crap especially NBA league pass, I have fooled around with diff settings on the menue but cant get a decent pic.

I have 3 weeks left to either turn it in or keep it with best buy. I was also looking at the Sharp 46 and Sony , but settled on this. I am no whaving second thoughts based on how my SD looks .

Thaks for all the help.

hello all
was hoping some one could help me out
I have a lns4095d, brighthouse networks cable with a sa 8300hd dvr box
Tv works great . i have been using the componet cables that came with the box
Just recieved an HDMI cable from Monoprice
pluged the cable in ( left the componet cables attached) and no signal from both the compoent input ot the new hdmi imput.
removed the hdmi and all works fine
reattched the hdmi without the componet cable and nothing ( no signal)
simply cant get the hdmi to work...
i have a call into tecg support for the cable box... still waiting
Im trying to determine if
i have a bad hdmi cable
bad set up box
mis config on the tv or the set up
or something with the tv ( i only have 5 days left b4 i can return it)
i have no other HDMi devices that i might try
any idea's??
would greatly appreciate it
Thank you

hello all
was hoping some one could help me out
I have a lns4095d, brighthouse networks cable with a sa 8300hd dvr box
Tv works great . i have been using the componet cables that came with the box
Just recieved an HDMI cable from Monoprice
pluged the cable in ( left the componet cables attached) and no signal from both the compoent input ot the new hdmi imput.
removed the hdmi and all works fine
reattched the hdmi without the componet cable and nothing ( no signal)
simply cant get the hdmi to work...
i have a call into tecg support for the cable box... still waiting
Im trying to determine if
i have a bad hdmi cable
bad set up box
mis config on the tv or the set up
or something with the tv ( i only have 5 days left b4 i can return it)
i have no other HDMi devices that i might try
any idea's??
would greatly appreciate it
Thank you


HDMI probably not toggled on in cablebox setup menu, but don't have that particular box. It's a common problem, however. Be prepared to like the PQ better on the component input than the HDMI - I know I do. Has to do with the individual input settings in the service menu, which you should NOT attempt to adjust unless you are thoroughly familiar with the intricacies of the service menu in the LN-Sxx9xD series. MANY have accidentally re-calibrated their receivers without the proper test pattern on the input.

Im a newb witht he 4695D 46 1080p Samsung and Im using a HDMI cable with COmcast STB

Can someone please help witht these issues

Still cant turn on film mode, another poster said to change to an anolog channel? How wuld I do that?

Is anyone using the HD tuner built inop this tv instead of direct tv or comcast? If so, how does the tuner compare witht hd cmcast box? WOyuld I just need an antenna?

The pic is great in HD but SD it loosk like crap especially NBA league pass, I have fooled around with diff settings on the menue but cant get a decent pic.

I have 3 weeks left to either turn it in or keep it with best buy. I was also looking at the Sharp 46 and Sony , but settled on this. I am no whaving second thoughts based on how my SD looks .

Thaks for all the help.
sorry to tell you but the Sony and Sharp look worse on SD channels than the sammys. My Sammy 4696d looks quite good on SD channels using a cablecard.

Can anyone tell how to save service menu setting in dynamic contrast. Picture looks really sharp when set to on. Help please ..

Hello all. I have a question:

Is the 96D line good at deinterlacing 1080i signals to 1080p? I want to know if there is any resolution loss so that the best possible image is reproduced.

Also, does this set do 3:2 pull down properly?

I have searched these forums endlessly and I can't find a concrete answer on this subject.

Thank you,

Well I had the 4696, Maybe I had a bad set but found the picture was too blurry & cloudy sometimes even on HD.
the background stuff was usually blurry, on on scenes where 2 or 3 people should all be sharp its not, however during good HD feeds like 24 , Leno, Letterman,picture was pretty good but still missing a fine sharpness.
sports, (Hockey looks way better on 4692, more colour, more sharp,
I liked the tv, loved the menu style on the bottom of the screen, but overall felt the picture was strugling and pale.and always a littlwe out of focus. I wanted this primarly for watch tv and not Blue Ray videos. So I returned my 4696 and went backwards in technology to the 768 x 1360 4692 same cold cathode lamp, ect. but 1,000,000 less pixels. But the picture is clear, crisp, sharp, colorfull and the background stuff on several programs I watched was very clear, my Xbox,PS2 and DVD's look better on the lesser model, but for me thats what I need. My computer looks better on this one , I had a line of static or dead pixels on the 4696.
I dont know how well it does deinterlacing, but its great with 1080p content, PS3,
HD Movies, but up converting the rest including 1080i didnt impress me too much.

I have a bit more pixelation on this one (barely)
but everything is more focused all background are amazingly clear.
so for me it was better not to jump into 1080p just yet.
maybe I had a bad tv, but this 768 x 1360 lns 4692 is making me happy so thats all that really counts I guess

they both do 3:2 pull down very well

BRgds

oh yeah my film mode was locked out also,
people eyes were not as clear, and on close ups you could always see someones nose or eyes
or ears going in and out of focus, and pixel blocks during fast motion.

oh yeah my film mode was locked out also,
people eyes were not as clear, and on close ups you could always see someones nose or eyes
or ears going in and out of focus, and pixel blocks during fast motion.

how did you fix it

I changed tvs brought back 4696 and bought 4692

Hey how do I change the resolution from 1080i/p to 720 -- is it automatic?

Thanks,

I might be jumping back in the LCD game and trying out another 4696...I had problems with a couple of of them and returned them. The others had cloudy backlights and on one of the HDMI inputs, the screen was bright gray...not black...and there was severe backlight bleeding on both the left and right sides of the screen.

Has anyone had issues with the HDMI inputs on this set?

Also...is the PS3 startup screen supposed to look gray over HDMI on the Samsung??? Thought it was supposed to be black.

I might be jumping back in the LCD game and trying out another 4696 ... I had problems with a couple of of them and returned them. ... Has anyone had issues with the HDMI inputs on this set?

In this post:
- Our Problems with 4696
- Contemplation of Sony Bravia 46XBR3 as alternative.
- Request for Comments

Our problems with 4696

We have a 4696 that we trying very hard to love for all its features and price but are also having troubles with it - so much so, that we are thinking of returning it for a Sony 46XBR3 for $1000 more! It's beyond our budget but we want to be able to live with and enjoy it for 10+ years.

1. Tonal Problems:
It's tonal range handling (especially it's gamma) and picture quality seem unstable over the 2 weeks I 've had it. That is, without changing the picture settings, the effect of the setting seems to change. I mean on the same channels, programs, content, and sources such as viewing several examples of the same exact content (like my own recordings or perhaps the local news at same time and channel) over 2 weeks. The 1st 4-6 hours it was great. Then pretty bad for 4-5 days. Then just OK the last few days. At no time, has the tonal range been enjoyable. At best, only media content with minimal lower tones appears enjoyable. Unfortunately, most desired content like movies has heavy bias toward the lower tones (lots of shadowy scenes).

2. Painful Brightness - Literally
It is so insanely bright we literally cannot watch TV in any of the picture modes that display a full tonal scale. When the Mac vs PC commerical comes on with its all white background, it literally lights up the entire room and part of the next as if you turned on the lights. Yes, we've calibarated a few times. We have a nicely darkened room for home theatre and evening TV viewing. Only when the sun is *brightly* shining into the room does the set's over-brightness seem at the low end of acceptable. Yes, we've tweaked all the modes and the "energy savings" trick. However, with Energy Savings on High or Medium, the tonal scale is severely impaired and on an 8 tone scale, the lower 3 are bunched together. In other words, all shadow areas are murky dark without detail. Yes, we've altered the other setting to compensate like reducing the contrast and adjusting the brightness. The entire tone scale is then flattened with no blacks or dark grays. Yes, we've also played with the Color Weakness variations noted here.

3. Uneven Backlight
In its normal settings without extreme tweaks the backlighting is very uneven. There is a lightness that fades in from the sides and additonal streaks that fade in diagonally upwards and inwards from the lower corners. Not extreme but *very* disconcerting for a $3,000 purchase we want to be able to live with for up to 10+ years. When the extreme tweaks (energy savings, etc) are applied they are not as visible but all the other aspects suffer as noted earlier.

4. Picture Angle:
With such a wide viewing angle advertised, I was shocked that the picture quality and contrast falls off starting at just 30-40 degrees off axis and gets worse from there. At 50-60 degrees, the angle of our room's side seating, the screen appears rather "milky" with significantly reduced contrast - the location where my wife likes to sit! The catch is that this is not readily apparent when you run the screen at it normal insane brghtness levels but *very* apparent when you apply the many tweaks necessary to tame the brightness. After all, the extreme tweak settings are the ones we have to use to watch it with so we have to judge angle with those settings, not the factory defaults.

5. Remote Control:
As others have found, the remote is very problematic. We have to aim it within just 10 degrees (like carefully aiming a gun), you can't just point in its direction. Even when you do hit the eye, you have to hold the buttons and fire them several times for the commands to execute. Coupled with the tiny buttons, use of the remote is not easy, pleasurable, or convenient.

6. Zoom Problems:
The picture sizing is also problematic. It often stretches in zoom mode. It also sometimes stretches vertically (not horizontally as it might need to). In default 16:9 mode (no zoom or stretch), it often stretches an 16:9 letterbox SD DVD feed when it should not be stretching at all! So the image becomes super wide and narrow. We have to switch back to 4:3 mode then flip back to wide stretch mode then it seems to take.

Also, to fill a 480 or 720 SD widescreen letterbox signal, it doesn't do it until you try several times, rotating modes everal times until it "takes" - then it stays. Eg, watching "Guns of Navarone", from an SD DBS letterbox feed, it took many tries of changing picture widths to get it to take. It eventually did and stays there until you pop a menu or change channels. Returning to the same feed without changing the TV's size mode, it is no longer properly Width-Zoomed. We then have to toggle modes again to get it to take.

We thought it was the HDMI signal but we feed it from our AV receiver so the 4692 always gets its content from the same input source. It seems to have a mind of its own. Even if it were an HDMI issue, with the convenience and bandwidth of $250 in cabling, we'd want and need it to work with HDMI. It seems to handle SD DVD's better than DBS SD signals. Bottom line, we have to play with the TV remote extensively everytime we change media feed types.

What it needs is an auto-FIT mode where it fits the signal to the size of the TV screen WITHOUT streching. Just zooming to fit the larger of the width or height whichever is largest. Now, with the 4696, in 16:9 mode and feeding it a 720 DBS 16:9 signal, the image is properly in 16:9 aspect but 20% smaller and centered. We have to manually switch to Wide Stretch mode to fill the screen. An AutoFIT mode would easliy fix that. Other sets I tried in the store seem to FIT things better, not just stretch or 1-dimensional zoom. The XBR3 seems to have a better fill mode that works in 2-dimensions but have to test if it really works better.

7. Slide Show Problem & Other Bells
The other bells I bought it for were the Cable Card readiness and the JPEG and MP3 support.

I can live without the CableCard since cable companies will have to have set top boxes for a very long time and current one are reported to be problematic.

The JPEG viewer doesn't work very well. It shows all my images at reduced size and never fills the beautiful size of the screen no matter what size they are. I tested images that are smaller, equal to, and large then the screen and all are shown with large margins all around. There are no slide show size adjustments I could find. My hope had been to fill the screen edge-to-edge with my high resolution digital art.

MP3 is not an issue since I wouldn't play anything through the TV anyway.

I lament the prospect of returning the unit since the features and price are cool. I imagine the USB allows firmware updating whereas the XBR3 I am conetemplating don't seem to have any way to update theirs.

So, here we are, trying to love our 4696 purchase while contempating a switch up to the XBR3 as it seems to be the only unit that is arguablly better within the $3-4k range. We don't want to but we won't be very happy with the above noted issues for 10 years.

Our take on XBR3 vs. 4696

Pluses of XBR alternative:
1. Has a backlight control PLUS energy saving control. With two controls of backlighting, maybe the tonal values might be better preserved.
2. Opinions suggest the XBR is a bit less painfully bright and suggest the XBR3 has better dark tone gradation dues to the DRC 2.5 and other circuitry.
3. Seems to have better off axis viewing in store.
4. The remote works quickly, has better buttons, and is more intuitive.
5. Has more sizing modes that seem to wqork beeter in the store - including an autoFIT setting I think.
6. Is not as painfuil bright in default mode so requires less extreme tweaks to tame it and thus less impact on tonal range and gradation?
7. Has more adjustments (but only 3 "modes" - 4696 has 4)
8. Has 3 HDMI inputs as well as and many others.
9. It is a very attractive unit (not super important but true)
10. Has ambient light sensor to adjust brightness a bit.
11. Has Full Pixel (0% overscan) mode.
12. Also has QAM tuner like 4696.
13. Altough screen is supposedly made by Samsung, it doesn't look the same in terms of picture quality, viewing angle, etc, as the 4696.

Cons of XBR alternative:
1. No firmware updates? (no USB etc)
2. No JPEG/MP3 support (not needed)
3. $1k more (got 4696 on sale so difference is big)
4. Glass border might break easily.
5. No swivel stand (nice to have)
6. No CableCard slot (not needed but would be nice)
5. Non-removable side speakers (but still quite narrow)
6. Life of high end Sony products often less than 10 years.
7. XBR2 had "clouding" issue. Don't know about XBR3.

Request for Comments

To switch or not to switch? We're not certain. If the consensus is that the Sony is at least somewhat better in most of the areas noted, we'd break the piggy bank and switch. We only have a few days left to make up our minds and return the 4696. We'd appreciate any comments on the comparison and whether to switch or not. Thank you.

many people have been quoted as saying the picture on the 4696 equals or exceeds the xbr.

It someone is always complaining about something on either set. It's down to personal preference. unfortunately not many people have both sets to be able to do a thorough comparison.

I think most people on this forum will probably upgrade their set in 3-5 years rather than 10! Especially with tech advances coming so fast and prices falling rapidly.

Best of luck!

XOR42...I know what you mean. The Samsung tantalizes you with its amazing picture and its sharpness...but its backlight problems are really bad. On the sets I tried, I had severe backlight bleeding and cloudy backlight issues as well. And as I have said, I had a bad HDMI input with bad discoloration.

I would be very careful about trying the Sony though, as its cloudy backlight issues are supposed to be even worse than the Samsung's. As for me, I would ditch the Samsung were it not for the fact that I find no plasma to match the sharpness of the Sammy. I am also a big gamer...and do I really want to cough up 3 grand and risk burn-in? I don't care what anyone says...it IS an issue...and it's pretty easy to have bad image retention problems as well.

This is not an easy decision and I am sure you and I aren't the only ones agonizing over it. I personally think 1080p on the Samsung LCD looks amazing...and it's difficult to get that same PQ on a plasma...no matter how good. I tried a Philips plasma hooked up to a Blu-Ray/PS3...and the Blu-Ray movies pretty much looked like SD on it, not HD. If you're gonna invest in 1080p players...I would advise getting a true 1080p tv.

Let us know what you decide to do!

XOR42! You have more questions than I can answer before crashing and burning for today. Please PM me after 10:30AM EST tomorrow, as I have many comments on your questions/observations. A telecon w/b even better sometime this weekend. This is it for me today! Goodnight all.

Alright, it has been a long time coming/ I sent back my Toshiba 42inch Regza (with a lot of hassle that still isn't sorted out yet, from yet to be named online store). And I finally have a 46 inch 95 Sammy that supports full 1080p.

First impressions...

I don't like the metal bezel instead of the clear bezel that is on the 96'.
I like the very large stand that the tv comes with.
The has sorta like a glossy piano black finish.
is VERY VERY bright....


What I have it hooked up to.

Right now it is hooked to my pc (I am typing and reading this screen from my 46 inch in full 1920x1080) ---via the pin slot.

PS3 --- 60 gig, the games LOOK better on this than on my 56inch sammy DLP. full 1080p games look very very sharp --- via hdmi.

Qwest TV/ HD --- via hdmi.


Downsides

PIP only works through the cable connection. WTF? didn't anyone realize that this was a hd tv and that people might hook up multiple sources, like a pc and a hdmi... and might want to view both at the same time and not a standard cable connection? there has to be a workaround for this.

Other than that- this tv is everything I thought it would be and more.

In this post:
- Our Problems with 4696
- Contemplation of Sony Bravia 46XBR3 as alternative.
- Request for Comments

Our problems with 4696

We have a 4696 that we trying very hard to love for all its features and price but are also having troubles with it - so much so, that we are thinking of returning it for a Sony 46XBR3 for $1000 more! It's beyond our budget but we want to be able to live with and enjoy it for 10+ years.

1. Tonal Problems:
It's tonal range handling (especially it's gamma) and picture quality seem unstable over the 2 weeks I 've had it. That is, without changing the picture settings, the effect of the setting seems to change. I mean on the same channels, programs, content, and sources such as viewing several examples of the same exact content (like my own recordings or perhaps the local news at same time and channel) over 2 weeks. The 1st 4-6 hours it was great. Then pretty bad for 4-5 days. Then just OK the last few days. At no time, has the tonal range been enjoyable. At best, only media content with minimal lower tones appears enjoyable. Unfortunately, most desired content like movies has heavy bias toward the lower tones (lots of shadowy scenes).

2. Painful Brightness - Literally
It is so insanely bright we literally cannot watch TV in any of the picture modes that display a full tonal scale. When the Mac vs PC commerical comes on with its all white background, it literally lights up the entire room and part of the next as if you turned on the lights. Yes, we've calibarated a few times. We have a nicely darkened room for home theatre and evening TV viewing. Only when the sun is *brightly* shining into the room does the set's over-brightness seem at the low end of acceptable. Yes, we've tweaked all the modes and the "energy savings" trick. However, with Energy Savings on High or Medium, the tonal scale is severely impaired and on an 8 tone scale, the lower 3 are bunched together. In other words, all shadow areas are murky dark without detail. Yes, we've altered the other setting to compensate like reducing the contrast and adjusting the brightness. The entire tone scale is then flattened with no blacks or dark grays. Yes, we've also played with the Color Weakness variations noted here.

3. Uneven Backlight
In its normal settings without extreme tweaks the backlighting is very uneven. There is a lightness that fades in from the sides and additonal streaks that fade in diagonally upwards and inwards from the lower corners. Not extreme but *very* disconcerting for a $3,000 purchase we want to be able to live with for up to 10+ years. When the extreme tweaks (energy savings, etc) are applied they are not as visible but all the other aspects suffer as noted earlier.

4. Picture Angle:
With such a wide viewing angle advertised, I was shocked that the picture quality and contrast falls off starting at just 30-40 degrees off axis and gets worse from there. At 50-60 degrees, the angle of our room's side seating, the screen appears rather "milky" with significantly reduced contrast - the location where my wife likes to sit! The catch is that this is not readily apparent when you run the screen at it normal insane brghtness levels but *very* apparent when you apply the many tweaks necessary to tame the brightness. After all, the extreme tweak settings are the ones we have to use to watch it with so we have to judge angle with those settings, not the factory defaults.

5. Remote Control:
As others have found, the remote is very problematic. We have to aim it within just 10 degrees (like carefully aiming a gun), you can't just point in its direction. Even when you do hit the eye, you have to hold the buttons and fire them several times for the commands to execute. Coupled with the tiny buttons, use of the remote is not easy, pleasurable, or convenient.

6. Zoom Problems:
The picture sizing is also problematic. It often stretches in zoom mode. It also sometimes stretches vertically (not horizontally as it might need to). In default 16:9 mode (no zoom or stretch), it often stretches an 16:9 letterbox SD DVD feed when it should not be stretching at all! So the image becomes super wide and narrow. We have to switch back to 4:3 mode then flip back to wide stretch mode then it seems to take.

Also, to fill a 480 or 720 SD widescreen letterbox signal, it doesn't do it until you try several times, rotating modes everal times until it "takes" - then it stays. Eg, watching "Guns of Navarone", from an SD DBS letterbox feed, it took many tries of changing picture widths to get it to take. It eventually did and stays there until you pop a menu or change channels. Returning to the same feed without changing the TV's size mode, it is no longer properly Width-Zoomed. We then have to toggle modes again to get it to take.

We thought it was the HDMI signal but we feed it from our AV receiver so the 4692 always gets its content from the same input source. It seems to have a mind of its own. Even if it were an HDMI issue, with the convenience and bandwidth of $250 in cabling, we'd want and need it to work with HDMI. It seems to handle SD DVD's better than DBS SD signals. Bottom line, we have to play with the TV remote extensively everytime we change media feed types.

What it needs is an auto-FIT mode where it fits the signal to the size of the TV screen WITHOUT streching. Just zooming to fit the larger of the width or height whichever is largest. Now, with the 4696, in 16:9 mode and feeding it a 720 DBS 16:9 signal, the image is properly in 16:9 aspect but 20% smaller and centered. We have to manually switch to Wide Stretch mode to fill the screen. An AutoFIT mode would easliy fix that. Other sets I tried in the store seem to FIT things better, not just stretch or 1-dimensional zoom. The XBR3 seems to have a better fill mode that works in 2-dimensions but have to test if it really works better.

7. Slide Show Problem & Other Bells
The other bells I bought it for were the Cable Card readiness and the JPEG and MP3 support.

I can live without the CableCard since cable companies will have to have set top boxes for a very long time and current one are reported to be problematic.

The JPEG viewer doesn't work very well. It shows all my images at reduced size and never fills the beautiful size of the screen no matter what size they are. I tested images that are smaller, equal to, and large then the screen and all are shown with large margins all around. There are no slide show size adjustments I could find. My hope had been to fill the screen edge-to-edge with my high resolution digital art.

MP3 is not an issue since I wouldn't play anything through the TV anyway.

I lament the prospect of returning the unit since the features and price are cool. I imagine the USB allows firmware updating whereas the XBR3 I am conetemplating don't seem to have any way to update theirs.

So, here we are, trying to love our 4696 purchase while contempating a switch up to the XBR3 as it seems to be the only unit that is arguablly better within the $3-4k range. We don't want to but we won't be very happy with the above noted issues for 10 years.

Our take on XBR3 vs. 4696

Pluses of XBR alternative:
1. Has a backlight control PLUS energy saving control. With two controls of backlighting, maybe the tonal values might be better preserved.
2. Opinions suggest the XBR is a bit less painfully bright and suggest the XBR3 has better dark tone gradation dues to the DRC 2.5 and other circuitry.
3. Seems to have better off axis viewing in store.
4. The remote works quickly, has better buttons, and is more intuitive.
5. Has more sizing modes that seem to wqork beeter in the store - including an autoFIT setting I think.
6. Is not as painfuil bright in default mode so requires less extreme tweaks to tame it and thus less impact on tonal range and gradation?
7. Has more adjustments (but only 3 "modes" - 4696 has 4)
8. Has 3 HDMI inputs as well as and many others.
9. It is a very attractive unit (not super important but true)
10. Has ambient light sensor to adjust brightness a bit.
11. Has Full Pixel (0% overscan) mode.
12. Also has QAM tuner like 4696.
13. Altough screen is supposedly made by Samsung, it doesn't look the same in terms of picture quality, viewing angle, etc, as the 4696.

Cons of XBR alternative:
1. No firmware updates? (no USB etc)
2. No JPEG/MP3 support (not needed)
3. $1k more (got 4696 on sale so difference is big)
4. Glass border might break easily.
5. No swivel stand (nice to have)
6. No CableCard slot (not needed but would be nice)
5. Non-removable side speakers (but still quite narrow)
6. Life of high end Sony products often less than 10 years.
7. XBR2 had "clouding" issue. Don't know about XBR3.

Request for Comments

To switch or not to switch? We're not certain. If the consensus is that the Sony is at least somewhat better in most of the areas noted, we'd break the piggy bank and switch. We only have a few days left to make up our minds and return the 4696. We'd appreciate any comments on the comparison and whether to switch or not. Thank you.


I can't imagine the Sony will solve your basic concerns about picture brightness, viewing angle, stretching picture size, tonal quality. Basically, whether you realize it or not, you don't like the LCD technology and Sony will do the same things, plus it has the problem of cloudy panels. You should try a darker technology, such as projection sets which have a considerably darker picture. Plasma isn't as bright either, but projection is the darkest. Those of us who like the LCD sets mostly don't watch in a dark room, but even when we do, we prefer the brightness of LCD to plasma and projection sets.

The XBR2 set is cheaper than the XBR3 yet has the advantage of not being so wide. Otherwise, the specifications between the two for video tv are identical.
The Sony has really the same viewing angle as the sammys, and it will stretch the picture to fill the screen for nonHD TV the same as the sammy, making people look fat. Even the cable boxes stretch to make people look fat. The only TV that doesn't do this is the Toshiba, I know because I have one and this is the main advantage of Toshiba over all other brands. You might consider a Toshiba projection TV or Toshiba plasma. (I also have the Samsung LN-S4696d).

It will be an exercise in frustration to try the Sony, given your damning complaints about LCD sets. Hope this helps.

The Sony has really the same viewing angle as the sammys, and it will stretch the picture to fill the screen for nonHD TV the same as the sammy, making people look fat. Even the cable boxes stretch to make people look fat. The only TV that doesn't do this is the Toshiba.

Can't you just toggle the aspect ratio? Or do you mean that the Toshiba does it automatically?

In this post:
- Our Problems with 4696
- Contemplation of Sony Bravia 46XBR3 as alternative.
- Request for Comments
Our problems with 4696
We have a 4696 that we trying very hard to love for all its features and price but are also having troubles with it - so much so, that we are thinking of returning it for a Sony 46XBR3 for $1000 more! It's beyond our budget but we want to be able to live with and enjoy it for 10+ years.

1. Tonal Problems:
It's tonal range handling (especially it's gamma) and picture quality seem unstable over the 2 weeks I 've had it. That is, without changing the picture settings, the effect of the setting seems to change. ..........

2. Painful Brightness - Literally
It is so insanely bright we literally cannot watch TV in any of the picture modes that display a full tonal scale. .........

3. Uneven Backlight
In its normal settings without extreme tweaks the backlighting is very uneven. There is a lightness that fades in from the sides and additonal streaks that fade in diagonally upwards and inwards from the lower corners. ........

4. Picture Angle:
With such a wide viewing angle advertised, I was shocked that the picture quality and contrast falls off starting at just 30-40 degrees off axis and gets worse from there. .........

5. Remote Control:
As others have found, the remote is very problematic. We have to aim it within just 10 degrees (like carefully aiming a gun), you can't just point in its direction....

6. Zoom Problems:
The picture sizing is also problematic. It often stretches in zoom mode........
........We thought it was the HDMI signal but we feed it from our AV receiver so the 4692 always gets its content from the same input source. It seems to have a mind of its own........

7. Slide Show Problem & Other Bells
The JPEG viewer doesn't work very well. It shows all my images at reduced size and never fills the beautiful size of the screen no matter what size they are. I tested images that are smaller, equal to, and large then the screen and all are shown with large margins all around. There are no slide show size adjustments I could find. My hope had been to fill the screen edge-to-edge with my high resolution digital art.



To switch or not to switch? We're not certain. If the consensus is that the Sony is at least somewhat better in most of the areas noted, we'd break the piggy bank and switch. We only have a few days left to make up our minds and return the 4696. We'd appreciate any comments on the comparison and whether to switch or not. Thank you.



I have reviewed your thoughtful and well-organized post in detail and will respond to all your comments as best I can, since I have the same TV.

I can tell you right off the bat that your set has a defective panel and you should take it back to the store from which you bought it for a replacement. Your set has both corner and area mura. You should not be seeing any unevenness as you describe. My screen is a perfectly even very dark gray when viewing directly into the center of the screen from 6' in a totally dark room when set to a live input with the input device turned off. If possible you should test the replacement in the store or while the delivery people are there. (I put mine in a windowless room as soon as they brought it in the door. If in the store, get them to set it up off the showroom floor and take it through the setup menu to a blank input.) If the replacement is not as I described mine, consult the manager for your further options. There are good panels out there. Some on the Sony thread (same panel), which is 4000+ posts long, have been through as many as 5 sets before they got a good one. It is worth the trouble, but it can be a LOT of trouble! Here is that thread, but believe me, you won't have time for it. They are VERY unhappy campers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779&page=1&pp=30&highlight=cloud

1. "Tonal" problems & 2. "Painful Brightness"
What you describe sounds like you have DNIe turned on in the Picture menu. Generally speaking, I don't use it because of the effects you describe. Using the Avia calibration DVD I found the following settings provided an excellent picture, and then I use the "Energy Savings" feature to adjust the backlight for ambient room lighting - Low in the daytime, Medium at night:

Contrast 85
Brightness 35
Sharpness 0
Color 35
Color Tone Warm 1

As to the "unstable" picture settings, I have not experienced that, and you should not have that on a replacement set.

If you find that your picture is still too bright with the above settings, including setting the Energy Savings to High, then I agree with the previous poster that you should consider a different technology.....

3. Uneven Backlight - See first paragraph

4. Picture Angle - I have a perfect picture from 45 deg to either side of center, which is much better than the 2005 model I just replaced. The swivel stand sure helps with additional required changes. If your normal viewing area requires simultaneous viewing beyond a 90 deg arc centered on the screen, then again you should try a different technology or place your TV in a different part of your room. Actually 120 deg is pretty watchable, and even 150 is not terrible, like it was with the previous generation of screens.

5. Remote control. I agree with everything you said. It's bad, period. That said, I hardly ever use it. Spend the money for a Logitech Harmony remote. I have 2 different models, a 659 and a 670, and the TV picks up the IR signal from the remote without fail. Samsung really dropped the ball on that one. Their remote puts out a really weak IR. Besides, your wife will love it!

6. Zoom Problems. I do not experience any of these. Your set is defective. I tested mine extensively this AM. When changing Sources, it remembers both the Picture Size and the Picture Mode for each input. I tested it using both the HDMI (1080i) and the component (480i) inputs. A 2.35:1 DVD has black bars top and bottom on 16:9 and fills the screen on "Wide Fit Zoom," just like it should. When I adjust the Picture settings in the Menu, there are no uncommanded changes to the picture settings.

7. Slide Show Problems, etc. You missed the "Zoom" feature. When you are displaying a .jpg photo, press the "Info" button on your remote. When I display a 2288 x 1712 photo it produces an image on the screen which is 24" x 18", filling most of the screen. "Zoomx2" completely fills the screen. Unfortunately, you can't do a slide show in zoom mode. It's one or the other. The size of the picture is directly related to what appears on the screen.

The "Cloudy Screen" issue with the Samsung/Sony "S-PVA" S-LCD plant in Korea is completely discussed here:

http://sonyclouding.blogspot.com/

A number of posters to this forum have become so frustrated with the mura issue that they have bought the Mitsubishi 1080p models, 46131 & 46231. You can read their comments here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745419

They seem very happy with them, although you should check the viewing angle on those, because the Samsung/Sony is the best I have seen, and that seems to be an issue for you. I would first try a replacement set and see if that doesn't cure a lot of your problems.

One final point: You seem to be using an HDMI switching audio system. Those can be problematic. Try connecting all your devices directly to the TV when investigating your problems. Also try using your TV's component inputs instead of the HDMI (since you don't appear to be using your TV's sound anyhow.) Many ppl prefer the PQ of the component input. The HDMI video inputs are setup differently in the service menu. This may isolate and identify any HDMI switching or other issues you may have.

Good luck! I like my 4696D, but will probably get a video processor soon, because I don't think any of these manufacturers do a good job de-interlacing 1080i. I plan to further investigate the Mit 46231 in this respect.

Hi,

New here and just picked up the LNS5296D last night.
Installed everything with a digital cable box/pvr. Hooked it up using HDMI from the digital box.

SD looks okay, and some HD channels look great.
My question is:

When I press the information display it is saying the resolution is 1920X1080i@60Hz for all channels.

Is this native resolution?
Will I need a PS3 or blu-ray player to see it run in 1080p?
Is there a way I can run it in 720p? instead of 1080i?
Thanks.

Hi,

New here and just picked up the LNS5296D last night.
Installed everything with a digital cable box/pvr. Hooked it up using HDMI from the digital box.

SD looks okay, and some HD channels look great.
My question is:

When I press the information display it is saying the resolution is 1920X1080i@60Hz for all channels.

Is this native resolution?
Will I need a PS3 or blu-ray player to see it run in 1080p?
Is there a way I can run it in 720p? instead of 1080i?
Thanks.

The Info button shows what's "coming in the door." All input signal formats are scaled and/or de-interlaced to 1080p.

I have reviewed your thoughtful and well-organized post in detail and will respond to all your comments as best I can, since I have the same TV.

I can tell you right off the bat that your set has a defective panel and you should take it back to the store from which you bought it for a replacement. Your set has both corner and area mura. You should not be seeing any unevenness as you describe. My screen is a perfectly even very dark gray when viewing directly into the center of the screen from 6' in a totally dark room when set to a live input with the input device turned off. If possible you should test the replacement in the store or while the delivery people are there. (I put mine in a windowless room as soon as they brought it in the door. If in the store, get them to set it up off the showroom floor and take it through the setup menu to a blank input.) If the replacement is not as I described mine, consult the manager for your further options. There are good panels out there. Some on the Sony thread (same panel), which is 4000+ posts long, have been through as many as 5 sets before they got a good one. It is worth the trouble, but it can be a LOT of trouble! Here is that thread, but believe me, you won't have time for it. They are VERY unhappy campers:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779&page=1&pp=30&highlight=cloud

1. "Tonal" problems & 2. "Painful Brightness"
What you describe sounds like you have DNIe turned on in the Picture menu. Generally speaking, I don't use it because of the effects you describe. Using the Avia calibration DVD I found the following settings provided an excellent picture, and then I use the "Energy Savings" feature to adjust the backlight for ambient room lighting - Low in the daytime, Medium at night:

Contrast 85
Brightness 35
Sharpness 0
Color 35
Color Tone Warm 1

As to the "unstable" picture settings, I have not experienced that, and you should not have that on a replacement set.

If you find that your picture is still too bright with the above settings, including setting the Energy Savings to High, then I agree with the previous poster that you should consider a different technology.....

3. Uneven Backlight - See first paragraph

4. Picture Angle - I have a perfect picture from 45 deg to either side of center, which is much better than the 2005 model I just replaced. The swivel stand sure helps with additional required changes. If your normal viewing area requires simultaneous viewing beyond a 90 deg arc centered on the screen, then again you should try a different technology or place your TV in a different part of your room. Actually 120 deg is pretty watchable, and even 150 is not terrible, like it was with the previous generation of screens.

5. Remote control. I agree with everything you said. It's bad, period. That said, I hardly ever use it. Spend the money for a Logitech Harmony remote. I have 2 different models, a 659 and a 670, and the TV picks up the IR signal from the remote without fail. Samsung really dropped the ball on that one. Their remote puts out a really weak IR. Besides, your wife will love it!

6. Zoom Problems. I do not experience any of these. Your set is defective. I tested mine extensively this AM. When changing Sources, it remembers both the Picture Size and the Picture Mode for each input. I tested it using both the HDMI (1080i) and the component (480i) inputs. A 2.35:1 DVD has black bars top and bottom on 16:9 and fills the screen on "Wide Fit Zoom," just like it should. When I adjust the Picture settings in the Menu, there are no uncommanded changes to the picture settings.

7. Slide Show Problems, etc. You missed the "Zoom" feature. When you are displaying a .jpg photo, press the "Info" button on your remote. When I display a 2288 x 1712 photo it produces an image on the screen which is 24" x 18", filling most of the screen. "Zoomx2" completely fills the screen. Unfortunately, you can't do a slide show in zoom mode. It's one or the other. The size of the picture is directly related to what appears on the screen.

The "Cloudy Screen" issue with the Samsung/Sony "S-PVA" S-LCD plant in Korea is completely discussed here:

http://sonyclouding.blogspot.com/

A number of posters to this forum have become so frustrated with the mura issue that they have bought the Mitsubishi 1080p models, 46131 & 46231. You can read their comments here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745419

They seem very happy with them, although you should check the viewing angle on those, because the Samsung/Sony is the best I have seen, and that seems to be an issue for you. I would first try a replacement set and see if that doesn't cure a lot of your problems.

One final point: You seem to be using an HDMI switching audio system. Those can be problematic. Try connecting all your devices directly to the TV when investigating your problems. Also try using your TV's component inputs instead of the HDMI (since you don't appear to be using your TV's sound anyhow.) Many ppl prefer the PQ of the component input. The HDMI video inputs are setup differently in the service menu. This may isolate and identify any HDMI switching or other issues you may have.

Good luck! I like my 4696D, but will probably get a video processor soon, because I don't think any of these manufacturers do a good job de-interlacing 1080i. I plan to further investigate the Mit 46231 in this respect.

K4SMX,

Nice job helping XOR42 out.

Regarding your last comment on trying out the Mits. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I had a Mits LT-37131 which I had to return for a reason unrelated to picture quality. I'm convinced based on extensive in-store comparisons and my personal experience with the Mits 37 that the Mits are among the best sets on the market at properly deinterlacing motion video. When comparing the Mits to the competition (Sony, Sharp, Samsung) there were instances when looking at the same sources I would see motion blurring on the other sets but not the Mits. I'm convinced that if you see motion blurring on the Mits it's the source - not convinced that this is the case with the other sets. If I had room for a 46" I would definitely get the Mits over the current competition. The only thing I did not like with the Mits is that it overscans (i measured 2-4%) on the HDMI and Componenet inputs (didn't check DVI). HDTV's need to be designed to allow no overscan for HD inputs.

Has anyone been able to exit the "Service Menu" and have their "Dynamic CE" setting saved to "On"? It really seems to have the picture better. Also if anyone could explain exactly what it does.

I heartily agree on the overscan. At least they should give you a 1:1 option. I HAVE seen problems with NOT having overscan, so I know why they do it, but it is rapidly becoming an obsolete issue and s/b optional.

The Mit was not an option for me, since the 4696D was a warranty replacement/upgrade for a LN-S409D, which was itself a warranty repl/upgr for a LN-R406W! I do believe you are correct, however, on the Mit having a better scaler/de-interlacing chip. I intend to test that on Monday at my local mom & pop with my HQV DVD test disc on their DVD player and will report back. I still have another panel to buy, either a 37" or a 32". Their 37132 looks pretty good, except that I don't believe it has the wide color gamut CFL backlight like the 46231. I can actually see the difference between the WCG 4696D I have now and the 409D I used to have. The 480i de-interlacing is better on the 96D than the 409D, but the 1080i de-interlacing is NOT as good as it should be! That may be why many Mit posters report less motion blur. We'll see....

Has anyone been able to exit the "Service Menu" and have their "Dynamic CE" setting saved to "On"? It really seems to have the picture better. Also if anyone could explain exactly what it does.

CE=Contrast Enhancement (?) Probably locks in with DNIe on only. It may "look better," but I would look at what it does to your black crush w/ a test disc running in the background. Just a thought....

I'm not going to be the first in the door messing with my service menu on this particular model, although I have looked at it. Too easy to accidentally hit "Calibrate," and then you have altered your DNA..... Someone DOES know the answer. Please speak up!

Alright, it has been a long time coming/ I sent back my Toshiba 42inch Regza (with a lot of hassle that still isn't sorted out yet, from yet to be named online store). And I finally have a 46 inch 95 Sammy that supports full 1080p.

First impressions...

I don't like the metal bezel instead of the clear bezel that is on the 96'.
I like the very large stand that the tv comes with.
The has sorta like a glossy piano black finish.
is VERY VERY bright....


What I have it hooked up to.

Right now it is hooked to my pc (I am typing and reading this screen from my 46 inch in full 1920x1080) ---via the pin slot.

PS3 --- 60 gig, the games LOOK better on this than on my 56inch sammy DLP. full 1080p games look very very sharp --- via hdmi.

Qwest TV/ HD --- via hdmi.


Downsides

PIP only works through the cable connection. WTF? didn't anyone realize that this was a hd tv and that people might hook up multiple sources, like a pc and a hdmi... and might want to view both at the same time and not a standard cable connection? there has to be a workaround for this.

Other than that- this tv is everything I thought it would be and more.

Hey PENN...does the Regza do 1080p over component??

The LN-Sxx9xD's that are 1080p's do 1080p on all 5 inputs. See your owner's manual for the PIP table. This is not a dual tuner TV. In a non-TV mode you CAN PIP with the TV tuner. Then use the PIP options in the PIP menu on the menu banner to move the picture and set the PIP picture size.

Just found out that Sony will be releasing a firmware patch on their LCD's that will supposedly get rid of the Mura Effect...AKA cloudy backlight problem.

Does anyone know if Samsung plans to release a similar fix...since their panels have also suffered from the same cloudy issue?

Here is a link to the Sony fix bulletin:

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-item.pl?news_id=168&mdl=KDL40XBR2

This is a little bit off topic but dealing with the SAMSUNG LN-S4096D. I bought it online.. paid for a three year in house extended warrenty. I turned it on and everything worked great for two days.. then when moving it from the floor to the stand we heard a little rattle in the back of the LCD. I tried to turn it on and it would not turn on.. of course I freaked out..big time.. then after calming down.. we looked in the back of the LCD threw the grates and saw a piece of metal near the bottom... not knowing what it was.. I got a thin plastic stick... staying away from any componets.. I was able to knock the metal piece around a few times. We were able to determine that it was a piece of the bracket that normally attaches to the back of the LCD to be used by a wall mount. This metal thing touched something that shorted out my LCD. My question is.. am I covered? Will they replace the LCD? Ive never been involved with anything like this before. I cant beleave this has happend. Anybody know about how stores cover this?

Try you warranty---. You didn't bang the tv around and a piece of one of the internal components fell and apparently disrupted something in the tv... that is not your fault, not an act of god--- it was an issue with manufacturing--- clearly, other individuals have moved their flat panels around without that occuring and thus--- you warranty should cover it. I would get on it first thing in order to have your new baby up and running again.

Additionally, if they try to not honor the extended warranty that you purchased, call local repair shops--- they will be able to service your tv for a fee.

Also, maybe I am paranoid, but take out insurance on it--- I did on my 46 inch.

...........I turned it on and everything worked great for two days.. then when moving it from the floor to the stand we heard a little rattle in the back of the LCD. I tried to turn it on and it would not turn on.. of course I freaked out..big time.. .......

That is one twisted story, TwistedDog. When the service tech opens up your TV, he will find the loose bracket. There's probably a fuse in there somewhere that's blown. Shouldn't be an issue. There's not supposed to be loose parts inside your new TV.....

i have a suggestion for my 4096D callibration i have tryed and i think im stiking with it if anyone have a differant idea please suggest i would approciate it..

set you back light to "medium"
contrast to "95"
brightness "42"
sharpness "35"
color "48"
tint "50"
DNle ON to have the picture sharper i have a hard time trying to figure out if i should leave on or off i believe you should leave it on. for a gamer like me the games on the 360 look a lot better with it on such as "gears of war" the image look more realistic with it on just my opinion.
NR ON no harm to trun this feature on does nothing to the picture but it does help your SD chanels to give a little less noise that is all this feature does.

please let me know if you like this settings and give me feed back if any comments or suggestions thank you.

............PIP only works through the cable connection. WTF? didn't anyone realize that this was a hd tv and that people might hook up multiple sources, like a pc and a hdmi... and might want to view both at the same time and not a standard cable connection? there has to be a workaround for this.

Other than that- this tv is everything I thought it would be and more.

Try using the 1080p component connections for your PS3 and the QwestTV instead of the HDMI's. The chart in the manual reveals there is some incompatibility between HDMI inputs and PIP, but not the components. I don't think you will notice any difference in the PQ. You might even prefer it.....

I just bought a 50' HDMI/DVI cable (and a TOSLINK) so I can connect my PC to my 4696. Needed a cable that long as it runs through the walls/attic. My plan is to buy a wireless mouse so I can operate the PC (which is in another room) from my living room. I should be able to play games and watch DVDs and HD content stored on my PC on the 4696. I'll hook the PC up to the TV via the HDMI port.

I'll let you know how it goes in case anyone is interested.

So I got everything hooked up. My nVidia 7800GT card has dual DVI outputs so I connected one to my monitor and one to the Samsung 4696 in the other room. The "nView" application that drives the video card allows you to either "clone" your desktop on both screens (but you must have the same resolution set on each) or have "dualview" which allows different resolutions but it is not a clone, more of a 'separate' screen which you can have certain windows appear on. As I wanted to have my 'desktop' appear on the TV then neither option would really work (ideally I needed 'clone' but with different resolutions). Therefore I just have to switch between monitor/TV when I want to use one or the other.

The picture on the TV at 1920x1080 resolution was crisp and clear. Of course, there was the dreaded overscan which cut off about 5% of the borders (including taskbar). Fortunately the nView application has an "underscan" setting and in selecting this made everything fit perfectly onto the 46" screen. Bravo! No really noticeable difference in PQ.

I tested games (BF2, FEAR, etc.) OK. In running DVD's or High Def movies (which had been compressed with h264 or x264 to about 4gb) the macroblocking is quite noticeable. Certainly not as good a picture as you get through the cable box. I think this has something to do with the software. I need to tweak around with FFDshow, etc. to get the picture looking good. Or perhaps these highly compressed movies are not going to get any better.


Overall, glad i got it work and with more tweaking should keep me happy....

Got my sammy 4696 a couple of weeks ago and i am loving it! But as I was playing around I noticed the following strange behaviour.... anyone have this problem as well?

(1) when I turn off DNR I notice a difference in the image, but when I trun it back to "on", nothing happens... no change in the image quality. It is like once it is off, it can't get turned back on unless i turn off the tv. I can select on or off no problem, but no change to the image quality. When i turn on the tv, it is back to on.

(2) blue color weakness does absolutely nothing. I can set it all the way from 0 to 9 and it looks the same. red and green has noticable changes....

Is this just my set or is this expected behaviour?

Hello

My tv seems to upscale all images to 1080i is there any way to change it to 720?

Thanks

I am also experiencing DNIe producing a better picture! Am I crazy? Everyone here talks about how you must turn DNIe off, but turning it on (especially in Demo mode) produces a cleaner sharper picture with darker blacks... Thoughts?

has anyone tried double component connections to utilize the PIP? I don't want to go out and purchase component cables just to utilize this function and find out that it doesn't work.

The idea here is that I could use component cables to hook up PS3 and my HD Qwest tv stuff... instead of HDMI (which I am doing now).

Additionally, does anyone know if the standard cable connection (coax) could support 1080p? if that is the case, there has to be some sort of conversion module that will allow me to simply hook up my hdmi connections into it and utilize the PIP with very little degradation of picture.

(also, if you guys don't have a blu ray player.. IT IS AMAZINGLY SHARP) --- I really am happy with this flat panel--- it costed more than I wanted to spend, and it wasn't until a buddy of mine showed me the difference between it and all of the rest. It is large, works perfectly, and I am very happy with the money that I have spent on it.

IF any one here would suggestes any new calibration settings for the game mode i dont like the original factory settings with the DNle on, the images looks very dark of the background or the shadows i almost cant see any detail of the armor or what ever im playing bceause the DNle option make the black look even blacker so is very dark and i dont like it off either i like it on like i mentioned but i need a new settigs for my gaming mode. if you please any suggestions or comments or new settings. thanks

has anyone tried double component connections to utilize the PIP? I don't want to go out and purchase component cables just to utilize this function and find out that it doesn't work.

The idea here is that I could use component cables to hook up PS3 and my HD Qwest tv stuff... instead of HDMI (which I am doing now).

Additionally, does anyone know if the standard cable connection (coax) could support 1080p? if that is the case, there has to be some sort of conversion module that will allow me to simply hook up my hdmi connections into it and utilize the PIP with very little degradation of picture..................



I see what you're trying to do, but I don't think the "double component" connection idea will work. One of the Sources must be the TV, either OTA or cable. I tried it, it doesn't work. The chart in the book is a little confusing about that!

The coaxial antenna input is an RF connection and requires the signal to go through a tuner to create audio and video signals. There are no current RF broadcasts in 1080p format to my knowledge. I am also unaware of any consumer electronics RF modulators which produce 1080p from an HDMI/DVI input. If there is one, you wouldn't like the price! I'm not sure if the current digital tuners would receive a 1080p RF signal in any case, just ATSC 1080i and QAM 1080i.

Hello

My tv seems to upscale all images to 1080i is there any way to change it to 720?

Thanks

Actually, your set is always displaying 1080p, since that is its native resolution. All LCD and plasma TVs display everything in their native resolution, upscaled or downscaled as necessary, regardless of what format is being fed to them.

So the 1080i you're seeing (I assume on the Info pane) means that your source device is sending 1080i. If you want to change it to 720p, you have to do it on the source device.

Can't you just toggle the aspect ratio? Or do you mean that the Toshiba does it automatically?
The Toshiba will expand the picture to fill the screen without abnormally making people too wide and look fat, whereas the Sony, Sammy and all other brands simply stretch it wide and make people look fat.

When I watch sports on my Tv, quite often I notice.. hmm.. artifacting? Distortion? noise? it's hard to describe.. basically the picture becomes "boxxy" in some areas.

How do I get rid of this? are there any setting that help? what's it called?

need a help with my 96d the settings on the gaming mode i need to tweak it just right to see the shadow detail more clearer, and i need to know is it better DNle Off on gaming mode or ON. now i have it ON all times but i like to hear your opinons and give me suggestions on a new setting for the gaming mode for games please . thanx

[COLOR=White]
In this post:
- Our Problems with 4696
- Contemplation of Sony Bravia 46XBR3 as alternative.
- Request for Comments


I greatly updated my most recent posting on this and resubmitted it later in this thread. Thanks.

hello all
was hoping some one could help me out
I have a lns4095d, brighthouse networks cable with a sa 8300hd dvr box
Tv works great . i have been using the componet cables that came with the box
Just recieved an HDMI cable from Monoprice
pluged the cable in ( left the componet cables attached) and no signal from both the compoent input ot the new hdmi imput.
removed the hdmi and all works fine
reattched the hdmi without the componet cable and nothing ( no signal)
simply cant get the hdmi to work...
i have a call into tecg support for the cable box... still waiting
Im trying to determine if
i have a bad hdmi cable
bad set up box
mis config on the tv or the set up
or something with the tv ( i only have 5 days left b4 i can return it)
i have no other HDMi devices that i might try
any idea's??
would greatly appreciate it
Thank you
I too have the SA 8300HD DVR and the 4696D. When the Cox installer delivered the DVR, he warned me that it wouldn't work with an HDMI cable. He was right!

What did you learn from tech support? I have the latest firmware and Cox tells me a firmware upgrade will not fix the HDMI issue. When I use the component connection, the picture is out of sync' with the audio. (Denon 2807 AVR.

I bought a 4696D at best buy last month, but there were 2 dead pixels, so I returned. however, this unit has been backordered at all area electronics stores, and many online stores as well until February. I really liked the unit, so I want to get one as long as it has no defects.

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on them currently, or should I just wait till February? I know a couple online retailers that have them in stock, but they have a no-return policy, and I am wary of buying from them for that reason....

I bought a 4696D at best buy last month, but there were 2 dead pixels, so I returned. however, this unit has been backordered at all area electronics stores, and many online stores as well until February. I really liked the unit, so I want to get one as long as it has no defects.

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on them currently, or should I just wait till February? I know a couple online retailers that have them in stock, but they have a no-return policy, and I am wary of buying from them for that reason....

How many people have dead pixels on the 4696. I have had my set for 3 weeks and no deadies. Just curious what the probability of seeing one is and when i would expect to get one (if i ever do).

I bought a 4696D at best buy last month, but there were 2 dead pixels, so I returned. however, this unit has been backordered at all area electronics stores, and many online stores as well until February. I really liked the unit, so I want to get one as long as it has no defects.

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on them currently, or should I just wait till February? I know a couple online retailers that have them in stock, but they have a no-return policy, and I am wary of buying from them for that reason....

I bought a 4696D at best buy last month...
I bought a 4696D at best buy last month...
I bought a 4696D at best buy last month...

Trying to get the post count up? :)
How sure are you that those online stores really have the 4696 in stock? These boards are filled with stories of people who have had trouble receiving their merchandise from some online merchants. I would be wary of any merchant with a no return policy.
Crutchfield shows that they have stock, although the price may be more than many other online stores.

[XOR42] This post was updated 20070122-2054. It replaces a first version submitted yesterday. It adds testing updates and examples of angular degradation. The first version is now a place holder that refers to this one.


In this post:
- Our Problems with 4696
- Contemplation of Sony Bravia 46XBR3 as alternative.
- Request for Comments


Thank you all for the many replies we received re 4696 problem saga. Let me reply here to all of you to save electrons.

In this post:
- Our AV configuration & Room Layout
- Update on issues responded to
- Results of our further testing

Our configuration & Room Layout:

As shown below, we upgraded our DirecTV, AV Receiver, and Display all at once since our 10 year old Sony XBR II 32" CRT was near death and our 6 year old Sony AV Amp was aging, had poor Dolby decode, and the volume was faulty, and our Philips DirecTV Tivo didn't do HD. Diagram follows:

http://multipath.biz/ihost/AVSCfgV1.jpg

For final problem testing before return deadline is here in a few days, and with kind input from K4SMX, last night I created multiple parallel HDMI and Component/Optical feed paths for A/B testing. See later section for results. Since the 4696 QAM tuner allows display of Comcast Local HD, I was able to create an A/B scenario to compare:
- Cable HD to DBS HD (direct via Component/Optical)
- Cable HD to DBS HD (via V2700 using Component/Optical)
- Cable HD to DBS HD (via V2700 using HDMI native mode)
- DBS HD via V2700 HDMI to DBS-HD via Component/Optical
- And all the variations of the above!

Here is our rec-room AV layout.

http://multipath.biz/ihost/AVSRecRoom.jpg

Update on Issues Responded To:

4696 PQ versus Sony XBR2/3:

It seems most here think the 46" XBR screen is literally identical to the 4696. Although they didn't seem that way to me in the store, we are accepting the consensus here because we were so greatly disappointed by the difference in PQ of 4696 as viewed in the stores versus in our rec room. We surmise the same perceptual disparity would hold true for the Sony, making any positive PQ aspects of the XBR that were not significantly better so greatly mitigated as to make them minimal or moot.

Backlight Bleed, Clouding, Angular Degradation :

Edge Bleed vs. Angular Degradation:
After many more hours of eyeballing and resulting migraines, we found some significant and surprising things regarding clouding and BL bleed. Our unit had what we *thought* was edge bleed that faded inwards from the sides as well as diagonally inward streaks from the lower corners toward the center.

The side issue seems to really be a case of angular degradation. Perhaps 60% of what we thought was edge bleed, seems to be viewing angle degradation! It turns out that just sitting 10' from the screen, the viewing angle to the edge of the screen is about 15 degrees either way versus looking at screen-center. I would have never guessed that until I actually measured it. With our 4696, that is enough to see angular degradation light fade inwards from the edges for about 20% into the screen.

What bleeding we DO seem to have is occasional diagonal streaking from the lower corners which is not prevalent and difficult to reproduce.

Random Clouding:
After much more testing, we are confident we do not have any of the "clouding" discussed here. That is, random, amorphous, and asymmetrical blobs of uneven backlighting (knock on wood). Perhaps our replacement unit will bless us with that.

Angular Degradation - Overall:
When viewed anywhere past 10 degrees off-center (vertical or horizontal), the image becomes milky and washed out. At 30 degrees it is string. At 50 it is severe. Beyond that, it is nauseating. This reminds us of how misleading the marketing specs are. An advertised 170+ degrees viewing angle REALLY means 85 degrees off center. Even so, with annoying fall-off at just 30 degrees, the marketing is best suited for sewage pipes. Yes, you can see the screen at 85 degrees off center but it is completely unwatchable, totally washed out, and nauseating. We also just noticed angular degradation occurs along both axis and produces a purplish tinge in most cases.

Why View Off Axis?
Some have asked why we view at such angles. First off, the degradation we see occurs when sitting dead on axis and just looking to the edges, let alone the great increase as you move further off-axis.

I think our standard rec room layout speaks for itself. There are probably a million homes with an identical lay out. The windows and door allow only one place for the screen. As you can see from the layout diagram, the viewing angle from the dead center seat is about 15-20 degrees to see the edges of the screen! Up to 50 for the side seats. Our aging 32" out of focus XBR CRT was fine to view from 70 degrees either side with ZERO fading or degradation of any kind. And that had a small, shiny, cylindrical screen, a color mask, and all the other CRT issues. Unfortunately, it's in the trash now - all 200 lbs of it!

My workstation's Dell 24" LCD, like all LCD's, also has angular degradation but sitting only 2' from the screen, the edges are perhaps 25-30 degrees off-center and the angular degradation is barely noticeable! Moreover, when viewing from extreme angles, the degradation increases only slightly. At 75 degrees, the Dell 24" looks outstandingly better than the 4696 which, at that angle, is totally unwatchable. I figured a top drawer, current generation $3,000 display designed for AV room use would have more capability in this area – not way less. Oh, well!

All of our angle testing was done in weak daylight with either medium gray screens such as produced by our HR20 DVR STB during its screen saver mode or by viewing very low contrast programs such as with the example below.

Example images of angular degradation:

http://multipath.biz/ihost/AVS4696AngDegrade.jpg

I just updated this post with the angular degradation example above. We ran across a poor quality VH1 Video of The Eagles playing Hotel California in concert. It was a very low contrast 480p, 4:3, pillar box image from DirecTV VH1 without any pure blacks or whites. We assumed the horrendous quality was entirely due to the expectedly terrible quality of the SD source. However, when I moved my head just 1 foot to the either side, it seemed that perhaps 30-40% of the image weakness was due to angular degradation. That is, much of the strong reduction in contrast seemed related to angle of viewing. Disappointingly, even dead on!

Position A is my normal seating position at the right end of my couch which is near dead on axis at 10' from the display. Positions B and C are the middle and left seats of the couch at increasing leftward angles. Position D is my better half's recliner about 45 degrees to the right of center axis.

All 4 images were captured with a Nikon Coolpix 8700, natural light, no flash, and fixed manual exposure at 1/60 sec @ F3.7. I then adjusted all images with the exact same gamma to exactly match my subjective perception of the angular degradation. The result is very accurate except for a slightly green cast that I didn't bother to remove.

You can even see some angular degradation in the near dead position A. It rapidly degrades in the seat to my left and becomes bad just 2 seats to my left and totally unacceptable from position D (recliner) at the right.

We can't figure out why some sources cause more angular degradation than others nor why there seems to be the same milky effect in this example even when viewed on axis! It may be that angular degradation is always severe but is masked when the display is set to its default painfully bright settings.

Overall, we think there are two factors to angular degradation and fading. One is image degradation occurring as the image passes through the surface to you at an angle and is what we thought to be the sole culprit.

[Conjecture: ON]
However, it seems that in weak daylight, at least, there may be a 2nd factor whereby ambient light reflects off the surface greatly exacerbating the overall effect. Not like a reflection but more like a general, even-lightening of the display surface. However, the first factor seems to be the main contributor. We're not sure about the ambient factor since increasing our unit's angle would reflect to a darker part of the room. Another idea is that there may be some form of unwanted LCD or surface coating characteristic that increases surface reflectivity at greater viewing angles - which is the last thing anyone wants.
[Conjecture: Off]

Tonal Crushing :

This is one of the two worst problems have (the other being angular degradation). It is where the bottom 3-5 tones on an arbitrary 16 tone scale are crushed to nothingness. That is, blank, dead, flat. I thought it was just one media or two. But after two days of testing, I find this problem on about 50-60% of everything I watch. It is most prevalent on the most important content to us, our various favorite TV series. Grey's Anatomy, Crossing Jordan, CSI, many movies, etc. The chart below attempts to explain this problem. A description of the chart follows it.

http://multipath.biz/ihost/AVS4696ToneScaling.jpg

The above chart shows a hypothetical range of tonal values that are potentially available from sources from pure white to pure black. The vertical blocks represent various types of content. Most important media is at left, least important at right. Their width also indicates importance or frequency of watching.

Content that is low contrast and bright would be appear as a vertical bar in the upper area. A cinema noire movie like a 1950's detective thriller with lots of dark tones would appear mostly in the lower area. A full range image like a modern bright HD broadcast of sporting event would cover most of the area top to bottom.

What happens with our 4696 is that it seems as if all incoming tones below a certain brightness level are completely undetected or simply not processed. Leaving total non-descript darkness. The point at which this occurs is approximated by the horizontal dashed line. As you can see, it affects a great deal of what we watch.

To ensure we gave the 4696 every opportunity to display details in the lower tone values, we purposely set the display to uncomfortable levels of brightness, reset STANDARD mode, and turned off any compensations. This left a painfully bright image where the lowest possible tone was a few notches up from total black. It was corroborated. No details in the lower tonal registers.

Tonal Crush Test: Crossing Jordan

http://multipath.biz/ihost/AVS4696CrushJordan1.jpg

The above test example of tonal crush that we're suffering is from a scene of Crossing Jordan via NBC HD. The scene was not watchable with the adjusted settings suggested so often here. Just for this test, we had to use STANDARD and maximum high brightness Custom mode.

The tonal range was identical via cable, satellite, HDMI, or component. The range shown, though admittedly darkish, is not that unusual, typical of many network series, and was easily shown as dark gradations transitioning into blackness on a 32" XBR CRT. The example is also typical of many darkish cinema noire network movies.

The characters are in a shadowy but NOT dark room. Both their hair is totally blocked out as are all other lower tones.

Left Image: We had to use STANDARD mode for the left image because our preferred adjustment mode was too dark to use or watch with this test scene. Movie and Dynamic modes were almost completely black.

Right Image: To forcibly determine the maxium detail present in the image, the right image shows the scene with Custom mode modified to maximum brightness, very low contrast, energy savings OFF, and no other circuitry. Alhough such settings are normally unwatachable, they do show all possible lower tones. And that was the sole point of this test. And YES, we also tried other combinations like max contrast and low brightness which increases blacks. But, in all cases, there were simply no lower tones present at all.

Notice the lower tones are always featureless blobs with very hard edges. That indicates that a whole range of dark tones below a certain threshold are being ignored so the next tones above black that are shown are several notches up the scale. This is a classic case of tonal clipping which is very similar to when a film negative is underexposed and all the shadow areas are not present. Just clear emulsion.

Also, when this condition occurs, darker colors variously appear chalky or pastel, off in color tone, and/or are very unsaturated or oversaturated. It seems as if the unit's signal processing circuits are simply not procesing image levels below a certain point.

K4SXM suggests it may be defective. Does anyone else see these kinds of effects? I am confident I'm not dreaming since I was recently watching my dying Sony XBR CRT with terrible problems yet it still did not have any trouble gently sloping lower tones into blackness. That's the key. We're talking about a threshold cut off of tonal values, like a cutting out shadows with Photoshop's Threshold Filter. Not tapering shadows into blackness.

Using my parallel wiring and source, I verified this problem was unaffected by provider or wiring. It was the same via both Comcast cable and DirecTV. It was also the same over HDMI or component.

Results of Further Testing:

HDMI vs. Component :

After all this testing, I also discovered virtually NO difference between very expensive HDMI cables and component video carried over dirt cheap AV 3 line cables (Red, White, Yellow). Neither was better than the other in tonal range, clarity, or sharpness.

What I did notice with HDMI was that switching HDMI through the Yamaha 2700 did cause some degradation UNTIL I set the HR20 DVR to "Native" mode and the Yamaha to "Pass Through". I then noticed ZERO difference between a direct component hook up form the HR20 DVR to the Display versus HDMI from the HR0 to the 2700 then to the Display. When the HR20 was in Not in Native mode ("off"), there was a noticeable lack of sharpness.

HDMI Connections :

I also noticed that the 2700's "Source Info" panel flags the HDMI signal from the HR20 with an "HDMI Error" even though the other readouts show the correct information about HD mode, etc.

Lastly, my HDMI cables literally fall out of their plugs. The HDMI cable that runs into my 2700 hangs at a downward and has to be re-seated regularly. All that money and they don't even have retaining clips. The very weight of the better brands of HDMI cable (read insanely over-priced) pulls the cables out. These are new high end cables plugged into a new high end receiver so it's not a case of wear.

Since I found ZERO difference between component and HDMI, and plain cables cost $5 and HDMI cables cost $50-200 I will try to return mine and will be very happy to not use HDMI again. Hopefully they will take them back since I bought the 2700 there as well.

Request for Comments:

Ok, I really overdid myself this sitting. My back is out. I hope my saga helps others and also solicits any responses that may help us in our 4696 dilemma. It looks like BB is willing to replace our set. We're taking that approach to (a) see if it makes things better and (b) if not, allows us to pursue alternatives. K4SMX suggests Mitsubishi. I've liked their sets in the past and will check them out in the next few days.

Thanks again to everyone here.

For XOR42: You may have the picture settings wrong for maximum black detail. You have set the brightness up very high and this is the exact opposite of what you should do . Try these settings for Custom:
brightness 24
contrast 100
color 45
tint 50
sharpness 0
warm 2
dnie off
dnr off
color weakness on, green to +2
energy savings to high

This should increase black level detail and greatly decrease the
painful level of brightness you complained about. If the picture is too dark, first try changing energy savings to medium. If not enough, boost brightness up a bit, to say 34. But don't lower contrast.

Don't know whether if will help the angular problem or not. Let us know.

Hey guys, I have been trying a bunch of codes to use my lns4095d remote to control my comcast motorola dct3416 dvr box. Does anyone know the code for it? I tried 064 as the set top box and a bunch of other codes, but they didn't work. Thanks.

Basically, whether you realize it or not, you don't like the LCD technology ... You should try a darker technology, such as projection sets which have a considerably darker picture. Plasma isn't as bright either, but projection is the darkest. Those of us who like the LCD sets mostly don't watch in a dark room, but even when we do, we prefer the brightness of LCD to plasma and projection sets.


Judging by the replies you all have been so nice to provide, it sounds like the TV industry is in a very bad state. The older technology is being phased out and can't provide the screen sizes for HD while the new technology is terribly inadequate with tons of problems, disabilities and high prices. Thus, it seems there are literally no sets that provide what most would want and need. That is, a set that provides 1080 HD, 42-46", quick response, and at least a TRUE 50 degree off axis viewing angle (100 degree total). Here's what I am seeing:

CRT - Obsolete. Limited size. Insane weight. Amazing tone and view angle.

Plasma - Rough image, heavy reflections, burnout, good tone, v. ow angles

LCD - No dark tones, super bright, slow, v. low angles, v. pricey.

Rear Proj: Low contrast, dark, mushy, no angles, but good prices.

I guess the ideal would be a 1080 screen without the grainy effect of plasma, no super-shiny surface, a TRUE 100 (+/-50) degree viewing range, great low tonal range, not insanely bright, could last 8-10 years, and cost under $4k.

If we have to return the 2nd 4969 we are soon getting as a defect replacement, we are at a loss as to what to get. I can't imagine not having HD now that I see what it CAN do when it DOES work.

K4SMX has suggested looking at the 46" Mitsubishi LCD. I'll do that soon. The pressure is off a bit now that BestBuy has agreed to give me another 30 days on another 4696. I hope but don't expect it will be a bit better than the one we have been testing. I'll see in about 4 days and report back here.

See my 2nd long testing diatribe with images that I posted yesterday and updated again today.

Thanks.

Thanks.

For XOR42: You may have the picture settings wrong for maximum black detail. You have set the brightness up very high and this is the exact opposite of what you should do.

Thanks for the quick response, wtbrowN. My post was quite long so I guess you missed the explanation that, just for the crush test, I had to use overly bright standard mode just to see anything decent and max brightness custom mode for the lab test to forcible elicit the maximum lowest tones. The test was not for viewing quality. It was to test is if there were any lower tones present at all. Settings such as you suggest are close to what I normally use and, for the test scene, produce an image that is mostly black.

Bottom line:
As my post shows, there are no lower tones on the sample media that occupies the lower rungs of the tone scale even though the same media does show gentler gradations on other sets. The only possible other explanation is that network HD feeds are cutting off a large chunk of the the lower tones completely and everyone else is also having the same problem. Since no one has noted that, I can only surmise it is either a limitation of the 4x9x on such specific content or it is my specific unit. I'll know in a few days when I test my replacement 4696.

Also discouraging was a recent set of sample images someone else posted for another reason in this thread back a few messages. Either his camera applied excessive contrast or he was suffering the same problem as me: Complete lack of lower tone values on some broadcast media. If those samples were the norm, I'd say it is unwatchable. I hope not.

Addendum:
Regarding your suggested settings. I have tried those and similar ones. Although Energy Savings tames the brigthness, it also completely crushes the lower tones in my unit. I can't use Max at all. Really wrecks the tone scale. Medium is pretty bad on the tones but I use it when the brightness is giving me a migraine as it usually does. I use Low most often as a trade off. It tames the brightness a little and preseves the tone range a bit.

Let me also say that my unit DOES look VERY good but only on 5-10% of the material we watch. It happens only in those infrequent cases where the tonal range of the content is not full range and runs from max down to 30% above minimum. I can then crush the lower ranges for more contrast with extreme settings since there are no lower tones to cut off to start with. Unfortunately sports events are most often in this category and we avoid sports. Some PBS specials are also good that way but they are few and far between.

Most of our DVD movies are also not too bad because they seem to have a very limited tonal range that occupies the upper tonal region. We can then use Movie Mode which massively darkens the image. It's the only case where we can use Movie mode. I guess it is aptly named.

One of my concerns is that when HD DVD's come out, they will have a maximum tonal range that has dark tones in the lower region which my current 4696 obviously fails to handle. I will retest in 4 days with my replacement unit to see how it fares. Even if the tonal range problem is fixed, the angular degradation is completely unacceptable in our current unit.

Since I bought this LCD primarily for wide viewing range, it was very painful to see it has literally NO viewing angle range at all. At 10', just moving your head 1 foot either way starts to shows effects of angular degradation. At 20 degrees it is very noticeable, at 30 it is unpleasant and certainly not worth the price. At 40-50 degrees is unwatchable.

We naively thought an advertised viewing range of 178 degrees (89 off center) meant that, conservatively accounting for spec fraud, a lack of unobjectionable degradation at least out to 80 (40 degrees off center). That's less than half the spec. However, we find the objectionable limit is more like 60 degrees (30 off center). The unwatchable limit is about 90 (45 degrees of center). The noticeable limit is very low, like only 20 (10 degrees off center). Oh, well.

I'll report on the replacement when it arrives. If it behaves the same way, then I will truly be astounded and at a loss for words as to why others don't see or feel the level of objectionable aspects that we do. It will be most interesting!

Many Thanks.

For XOR42:
1. Did you get a HD cable box from Direct TV? You need too, if not for best picture qualtiy.
2. Most audiophiles agree that Direct TV has the worst picture quality for a good quality tv set. The best possible picture is with cable companies and using a cablecard, but if you can't use a cablecard upgrade the settop box to the HD cablebox these companies rent to you. The problem with Direct TV is it uses the most compression of any source to save bandwidth.
3. Since you are paying for the quam tuner and cablecard slot in the 4696d, why not upgrade your Comcast subscription to digital and HD package and rent a cablecard, so you will get the best possible SD as well as HD picture quality.
4.I have this arrangement with Cablevision and get a quite good picture on most analogue and digital SD channels, and a fantastic picture on HD channels.
5. I definely have no trouble with off axis viewing, but since the tv is in a corner, I can't get more than about 40-45 Degreess off-axis.
6. You should really try the plasma which everyone says has better blacks than LCDs. Since you view in a dark room, there won't be a reflection problem. And at your 10 foot viewing position, you won't see the screen door effect. Burnin really isn't an issue anymore. The reason I have an LCD is I view tv is a brightened room and don't want the reflection, and for this I am willing to trade off the lower blacks. Plus I like the bright picture of LCDs.
7. Further, if you check out the Toshiba plasmas, you can expand the picture when needed to fill the screen without making people look fat. The manager at Best Buy where I bought my Sammy and Toshiba told me that Toshiba is the only brand that will do this.

Just found out that Sony will be releasing a firmware patch on their LCD's that will supposedly get rid of the Mura Effect...AKA cloudy backlight problem.

Does anyone know if Samsung plans to release a similar fix...since their panels have also suffered from the same cloudy issue?

Here is a link to the Sony fix bulletin:

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-item.pl?news_id=168&mdl=KDL40XBR2

At the moment, Sony is offering this "fix" to xbr2/3 owners, not v2500 owners who also have the problem. So a software fix for the Samsungs is not a given, at least not yet. Also, Sony has to say your set is affected by s/n before they mail you this "fix".

Ah, black crush. Truthfully, this was the ONLY issue that really caused me concern when I first got my 4092 back last spring. I asked a lot of questions, read a lot of stuff, made a lot of observations and reached some conclusions.

I have done a LOT of digital still image editing/adjusting, so you will see reference to it. To me, "black crush" means blocked up shadows, as in a loss of tonal detail. At first, I thought this might be an issue specific to Samsung displays. Right before I got mine, my sister got a XBR LCD Sony; she lives a black away. So I recorded a few scenes on my 8300 DVR that I thought plainly showed this and dragged it over there. Interesting, both Sony and Samsung exhibited the exact same thing, tending to indicate this is NOT a manufacturer issue.

I played around with the user controls (making note of the fact they are labeled "brightness" and "contrast" while having little actual relation to what the terms mean; they ARE white and black level). In a very classic sense, I see not enough "range" in the controls to really, really open up those shadows. At the same time, just like it was in still image editing years ago, there is a classic issue, as you brighten the scene to open up the shadows, you tend to take highlights and blow them out (over expose). So the best you can do is hit some sport of middle ground.

Next, I did a side by side comparison with my CRT. VERY INTERESTING. As we all have read, LCDs can't hold a candle to CRT for black levels. As in you can't get real, solid blacks on LCDs that you can on CRTs. Yet what I see if that the CRT did seem to have much more tone in the shadows. While not blowing out highlights. BUT, everything looked kind of medium gray on the CRT, gosh, there was NO black at all on it. Compared to the LCD, there was absolutely no "punch" to the image at all. The CRT's picture was really garbage.

Now since I got the LCD last spring, I was kind of immersed in all things HD; and hadn't been to a movie theater in several months. So I finally had to go see my main Martin's Departed. From virtually the first scene I'm muttering under my breath "holy smokes, crushed blacks." have seen 2 other movies since then and all three exhibited black crush, too dark shadows, loss of shadow detail, however you want to describe it. Three different films, three different theaters with different projection equipment (one was using digital projection equipment, not even film) all of them (IMO) following exactly how the director intended them to be.

Back to the LCD; somehow I have this feeling that with the still prevalent slam on LCDs that they can't produce a real black, they were purposely being engineered to show that inky black. I sure as hell am seeing blacks I never saw on CRTs. Most recent example, the NFC game this past weekend. The Bears shorts, the Saint's pants and the refs pants. All as inky black as you can get, and blacks I never ever saw on any CRTs (oh, my "CRT" was a 5 year old, 1800 dollar top of the line XBR). In one sense, you can very legitimately say that they are tending to go perhaps a bit too far in creating such an amazingly solid and deep black.

Back to my still days; we used to deal with this by spending a lot of time creating masks. Hide everything from a certain gamma value up so that we can "adjust" the shadow detail/level. Effective and time consuming. Ah, but those Photoshop guys KNEW all about this, so they gave us the "Shadow/Highlight" control. No need to cut masks for this, in a single step we can "adjust" both ends, the shadows and the highlights separately. As in move one and keep the other exactly where it started at.

Oh boy, I'd sure LOVE to have a user control like this! I could then set my preferred threshold of good black level so I get real blacks, but not tend to block up too much while keeping my highlight level exactly where it is now (I have no issues with that end of the spectrum).

Should also mention that I live n a big city, reported to have more bandwidth in the cable system that mostly of not all other markets. A lot of image issues other than this that seem to plague others don't seem to plague me. I see most other folks advising running 50% chroma (set 50 in a range of 100); good grief, at that level my display would be positively nuclear. AND that goes back to the CRT days of old as well. I am 100% convinced we get as good a signal as anyone else may get and much better than a lot of folks.

Anyway (phew) that is my screed on black crush. In a sense I have adjusted to the fact that in many instances, that is what was intended by the artist creating it. That it gives me some way solid blacks that I've never really seen before. EVEN SO, I still would like the ability to open up the shadows more than I can now without screwing up the other end of the spectrum. Because, the real bottom line is the ability to adjust to what we want, hell there are folks who insist on distorting the image just so they can fill the screen, a totally dumb move I think, but one which they have ever right to be able to do.

For XOR42 and others: The above well thought out tome on black crush pretty well sums up my experience, which is you get it on real movies in movie theaters as well as HDTV sets whether they are LCD, Plasma or what have you. So, relax and enjoy, and your old CRT wasn't good either.

1. Did you get a HD cable box from Direct TV? You need too, if not for best picture quality.
Yes, my HR20-700 is Satellite Receiver / DVR combo that I acquired through DirecTV. It is their latest unit. I also have it set to pass signals unaltered and have tested it via Component and HDMI. In "Native" mode, there is no difference in PQ.

2. Most audiophiles agree that Direct TV has the worst picture quality ... The best possible picture is ... using a CableCard ... Since I also have basic Comcast cable (comes with Internet access), I was able to hook it up and receive network channels in HD. I was then able to do a direct A/B comparison of Cable HD to Sat HD by pressing source. There is literally no difference. The network feeds are pretty low quality so you can't really test what each feed type can do for you. Also, I was VERY surprised to see the many HD MPEG drop out glitches and hesitations was NOT do to DirecTV (my 1st assumption). It turns out the networks themselves are sending broken signals. That was really surprising.

3. Since you are paying for the [QAM] tuner and CableCard slot in the 4696d, why not upgrade your Comcast subscription to digital and HD package and rent a CableCard, so you will get the best possible SD as well as HD picture quality. As noted above. Don't need it. Get HD for free. And there was no differencee in signal or in my problems with the 4696.

4. I have this arrangement with Cablevision and get a quite good picture on most analogue and digital SD channels, and a fantastic picture on HD channels. I do get SOME great pictures. But only about 10%. Most HD is not true HD material. Most network HD seems to be SD content that has been cropped and upscaled to HD. True HD, like most sports events, a few new shows, and some PBS come through GREAT! It's the major of the shows that we watch that have lower tonal scales that I seem a MAJOR problem with. See my samples.

5. I definitely have no trouble with off axis viewing, but since the TV is in a corner, I can't get more than about 40-45 Degrees off-axis. You probably will not see the problem, then. You need to check in a dimmed room. I don't mean DARK. That would give us a headache. I mean like at dusk or with room lamps dimmed to about 30 or 40% This is, coincidentally, what most call ideal home theater lighting - complete with some "bias". That is, since our ceiling lights flood the walls for indirect soft light and some hit the wall behind the TV, it produces a little "bias" backlighting. That's what I've meant all along. All of my comments were never based on sitting in the dark.

So, at 30-50% evening lighting level (about when reading a book is still possible but it become a challenge), show a blank screen that is medium to dark gray - however you can create one. Then view it at 10' dead center then watch it as you move to 45 degrees off-center (the max you can do if it is in a corner). In my scenario, the screen starts at darkish gray and as I move to 45 off center it begins to lighten at the opposite edge and reaches significant level of lightened, milky, lighter gray with some color overcast. So, if you move left, the effect starts more quickly on the right edge and vice versa. At 45 degrees, it pretty well covers the whole screen.

It is very noticeable on program scenes that are more uniformly darkish like a very wide shot of a music concert where the outer stage areas and surrounds are mostly dark tones but not black. See my examples.

You don't see this effect if you watch BRIGHT shows broadcast in the upper tone regions like ice hockey in Standard mode. It seems many watch such content most often. Everyone who has watched our set, find content with bright scenes difficult too to watch. For example, even with tamed brightness settings as suggested here, we have to turns our heads or close our eyes when the Mac-PC commercial comes on with its all white background. The same hoes for any scenes with all white backgrounds. We don't understand how anyone can watch things like that. It’s bad for your retinas.

6. You should really try the plasma which everyone says has better blacks than LCDs. Since you view in a dark room, there won't be a reflection problem. And at your 10 foot viewing position, you won't see the screen door effect. Burn-in really isn't an issue anymore. The reason I have an LCD is I view TV in a brightened room and don't want the reflection, and for this I am willing to trade off the lower blacks. Plus I like the bright picture of LCDs. We are going to check out 1080 plasmas some more. But, again, we do not view in a DARK room. It is 40% dimmed with an even light everywhere. We also have the dining room and kitchen visible through the wide doors behind and to our sides. So, lights from those rooms would directly reflect on the screen in front of us. See my layout diagram.

From all the replies I am getting, it is sounding like LCD's:
1. Are very sharp without graininess (GREAT)
2. Have many problems in general
3. Are EXTREMELY bright (major)
4. Cannot be comfortably viewed in dimmed living rooms (major)
5. Cannot be dimmed without killing lower tones (major)
6. Don't have dark blacks (minor)
7. Can't be viewed from any angle without falloff. (major)

Despite recent comments re what you guys call tonal crush (we techies call it clipping), I still can't help comparing our 4696 to the dying 32" CRT we just threw out. I was able to compare the same program on both within 24 hours. Even with so many problems that we had to trash it, it was more comfortable to view, less annoying to watch, and still managed to show dark tones very well. Most importantly, when there was a defficiency in lower tonal values, it did not "clip" them so hard. It rolled them off softly. This is a matter of the how well the circuitry and the LCD handles the "heel" and "toe" of the incoming tonal curvce. In short, it looks like they are clipping the lower tones - probably to give more gradation to the upper ones since most early adopters prefers sports and such. I acknowledge that a lot of newer source material is already clipped but that is not what IO was referring to. I was specifically referring to content I alsready verified was NOT clipped, showed well on an old CRT, and was dismal on an LCD.

Bottom line for us thus far:
LCD's do well with bright content viewed in daylight and terrible with darker or moodier material viewed in partially dimmed living room lightning. If you mostly watch sports in the day time, you're in heaven. Then go for it!!!

If you watch mostly TV series or movies with darkish tonality, then you're happy 10% of the time, complacent 30% of the time, annoyed 40% of the time, and really pissed off 20% of the time. Not levels I like for a $3k investment.

7. Further, if you check out the Toshiba plasmas, you can expand the picture when needed to fill the screen without making people look fat. The manager at Best Buy where I bought my Sammy and Toshiba told me that Toshiba is the only brand that will do this. Well, I found that problem. It turns out that the 4696 does not provide a wide fit (zoom width) option when you feed it a 480p signal that is actually a 4:3 letterbox. In that scenario, the 4696 does not even provide the FIT sizing option as it does do when you feed it a 720 or 1080 letterbox signal. When the 4696 is fed a 480p signal, its sizing menu only shows 4x3, 16x9, Zoom1 and Zoom2. moreover when you select Zoom1 or Zoom2 it incorrectly STRETCHES the signal vertically. It does not Zoom at all. Zoom means that it supposed to enlarge the image while preserving its aspect ration - like zooming a camera lens. It's a definite bug with the 4696. Others have seen that too. So, it DOES provide a Zoom to Width Fit but only with 720 or 1080 letterboxed content.

Thanks for your response

[XOR42]...............

Angular Degradation: When viewed anywhere past 10 degrees off center (vertical or horizontal), the image becomes milky and washed out.......much of the strong reduction in contrast seemed related to angle of viewing.....

Tonal Crushing:......It is where the bottom 3-5 tones on an arbitrary 16 tone scale are crushed to nothingness...often purple tinged....colors variously appear chalky, or pastel like....

In further investigating your most recent opus magnificus, I discovered an interesting fact about these panels. First let me re-iterate that I do NOT experience your narrow angle of viewing problems to the same degree at all. I have an almost constant, perfect view up to 45 degrees each side of center axis. However, when changing my horizontal angle of viewing I am dead-on level with the screen. I have discovered, however, that if I am above or below dead-on level, the usable horizontal viewing area decreases quite rapidly, and I mean quite rapidly. It's the combination of vertical and horizontal change that limits the angle of viewing. It should be noted by all, therefore, as has been posted in other threads on this forum, that proper vertical positioning of your panel relative to your eyeballs is extremely important.

To further demonstrate this effect, I viewed a black screen from many angles. As one moves away from dead center, the effect becomes apparent: a luminosity of a dull, reddish hue begins to appear, which brightens with increasing angle. This occurs horizontally much more rapidly when only 10 degrees off-axis vertically. This no doubt explains the loss of contrast and washed out colors from off-angle viewing perspectives. Since I see a similar effect on my laptop screens, this is probably an unavoidable aspect of TFT-LCD technology.

I am not convinced this explains ALL of XOR42's problems. He may still have a defective panel. I do NOT, for example, ever have "purplish tinge," even off-axis, on blacks. And in general, I do not have the black crush he describes using my settings, which again are: Contrast 85, Brightness 40-45 (depending on input device), Sharpness 0, Color 35, Color Weakness Green +3, DNIe off, DNR off, Energy Savings Low, Warm1. There were other issues with his panel which he described in his first post which I do not have on my 4696D.

We will see if he has these same problems when he gets his replacement panel.

And finally, I recommended by telecon that XOR42 have a look at the Mitsubishi 46131 and 46231. This was based solely on my complete review of all the relevant postings and the manu spec's, primarily as a result of the type 2 and 3 mura issues with the Samsung/Sony S-LCD plant 1080p S-PVA panels. I do not own and have not yet tested either of these myself. I am generally very happy with my 4696D ("cloudless"), although I intend to test the Mitsubishi's to see if their 1080i de-interlacing is better.

For XOR42: I swiveled the panel so I could view if way off axis, no problem. I have watched movies on PBS and other programs in a totally dark bedroom with no problem. Maybe your tv is a lemon, lets hope. Good luck with the replacement.

Is there a FAQ for this TV here somewhere?

120 pages is obnoxious. :)

riverside guy, you analysis of the lcd versus crt is good.

but the negative condition you write on isn't the technology, it's your set. :) if your CRT were brand new, and not years old and tired, it'd be different. That punch you describe as lacking is a sypmtom of a high mileage tube TV.

zv

All,

The justscan firmware that has been mentioned in this thread is now available in the UK!

For all those who haven't read the thread, the justscan firmware enables 1:1 pixel mapping on the HDMI inputs. A poster named Magoosteruk contacted the Samsung Yateley facility over there and got them to release the firmware.

I contacted Samsung here, but they of course had no idea what I was talking about.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3550960&postcount=1

There is hope!

EDIT: I have sent Magoosteruk a PM asking him to contact the Samsung Yateley facility that developed the firmware and see if they will get their counterparts here in the US to do the same thing.

Thanks fogarty....a glimmer of hope!

How prevalent is the cloudy backlight issue on the 4096?

All,

The justscan firmware that has been mentioned in this thread is now available in the UK!

For all those who haven't read the thread, the justscan firmware enables 1:1 pixel mapping on the HDMI inputs. A poster named Magoosteruk contacted the Samsung Yateley facility over there and got them to release the firmware.

I contacted Samsung here, but they of course had no idea what I was talking about.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3550960&postcount=1

There is hope!

EDIT: I have sent Magoosteruk a PM asking him to contact the Samsung Yateley facility that developed the firmware and see if they will get their counterparts here in the US to do the same thing.

I've heard of folks in Australia getting this too. I hope they don't hold back in the US because of all the wacky laws we have here....

To further demonstrate this effect, I viewed a black screen from many angles. As one moves away from dead center, the effect becomes apparent: a luminosity of a dull, reddish hue begins to appear, which brightens with increasing angle. The effect occurs horizontally much more rapidly when only 10 degrees off-axis vertically.
This no doubt explains the loss of contrast and washed out colors from off-angle viewing perspectives. Since I see a similar effect on my laptop screens, this is probably an unavoidable aspect of TFT-LCD technology. Wheh! Thanks K4SMX. I was beginning to feel delusional. You described it perfectly. In my case, I am very close to vertical center - perhaps +/- 5 degrees. I hope the replacement is better but I am not hopeful since, as you said, it may be intrinsic to LCD design so I don't imagine it is a batch oriented anomaly.

I should add that the test conditions I've cited are to more easily reproduce the effect for others. For us, the effect is visible on all material, all the time, at all angles beyond dead center, and in all lighting conditions. It is very subtle at 0 degrees, noticeable at 10, distracting at 20, annoying at 30 and un-enjoyable at 40. Even when viewing from dead-center on both axes, the surface effect is subtly visible once you know what it is.

A dealer here, Tweeter, has the 46231 Mitsi unit you mentioned. It’s $100 more than the $3k I paid for the 4696. Despite its environs, I'll try to check it this week for any obvious angular degradation. Of course, in-store is nothing like in-home. In the store, the 4696 looked very good on a shelf 20 degrees upwards and 30-40 degrees to the side when viewing sports at default retinal-burn levels.

Some comments in the Mitsi forum specifically suggest it has better control of angular degradation than Sony-Samsungs - along with some of its own issues, naturally. I find it interesting that Mitsubishi doesn’t quote its viewing angle in its specs or ad copy. That could means it's either terrible and they're hiding it =OR= or its pretty good but a correct measurement produces a number too low to compete with in the ad wars. I hope the latter. I'll retest and report back when I get my 4696 replacement.

I do NOT, for example, ever have "purplish tinge," even off-axis, on blacks. And in general, I do not have the black crush he describes using my settings, which again are: Contrast 85, Brightness 35-40 (depending on input device), Sharpness 0, Color 35, Color Weakness Green +3, DNIe off, DNR off, Energy Savings Low, Warm1. The blue-purplish tinge I spoke of only occurs in the clipped black areas. I do not see it otherwise. Even then, it is not always there.

I re-tested again with similar settings as you suggest watching the current episode of Heroes in HD - even ES=Low which is normally too bright for us. Sure enough, I saw a lot of heavy clipping of the lower tones in any scene that was not fully and flatly lit. I can live with (though hate) the clipping of tones in areas like black hair or leather but it is most unpleasant when the clipping of the shadows in eye sockets makes them look a little like the cut outs of a skeleton’s eye-socket openings. It almost seems like it is slowly getting worse or all network programming is. The tone point that starts to clip seems to be increasing so facial shadows are starting to fall too quickly into blackness.

There may be another problem. It seems like the color level, hue and contrast are not stable across different shots within the same scene of the same episode. Normally, color configuration is maintained when shooting different shots (views) within the same scene. What happens is that color might be ok in one shot, warm and bright in next shot, pale-greenish washed out in next shot, ad nauseum. More interesting still, is that this effect doesn't change within one shot but only across different shots in the same scene. I thought this was a case of modern directors who knowing nothing of art, lighting and color, sadly trying to be artistic! But I noticed this was happening in some other programming. It seems too prolific to be endemic of the networks and only started when I got this flat panel. This leads me to suspect a problem with the processing of the color signals in the DSP circuits that do what older VGC circuits did in analog sets - taming variations in video levels.

We will see if he has these same problems when he gets his replacement panel. Y’all will be the first to know!

I did a side by side comparison with my CRT. …. Yet what I see is that the CRT did seem to have much more tone in the shadows. While not blowing out highlights. BUT, everything looked kind of medium gray on the CRT, gosh, there was NO black at all on it. Compared to the LCD, there was absolutely no "punch" to the image at all. The CRT's picture was really garbage. Some good points. The beginning of your finding is EXACTLY what I dearly miss the most. Although CRT’s do not generate complete black or white - they had EXECELLENT tonal gradation throughout their scale. Moreover, due to their non-linear analog VGC circuits, they create what we photographers call a gentle heel and toe in the tonal curve. That is, they don’t just clip out-of-range tones like a machete splitting a coconut. Instead, they more gently reach their limits showing gradation right to the very end of the input tonal range.

A good example of the value of tonal gradation being more valuable than deep blacks, whites or contrast is to think of art photographs. An image without any pure blacks or whites can be very pleasing as long as you see all the tones in between. The mind easily compensates for that. A CRT is very much like that. Now take a photograph that is unintentionally underexposed. It is awful to look at because part of the information is simply missing, cannot be easily simulated by the mind, and blatantly advertises there is a media problem.

Some say that digital circuits can’t do what a CRT did since the signal is binary and LCD’s have limited and/or non-linear response curves. Well that’s not true at all. One can apply an algorithm that biases an incoming tonal curve to offset the limitations of the LCD’s response curve. Audiophiles may remember the Fletcher-Munson curve. It is the deliberate biasing of audio sound levels to compensate for the non-linearity and deficiencies of the human ear. Now replace "audio" with "video" and "ear" with "LCD" and you end up with what I am talking about.

In fact, it is actually easier and more flexible to do this with modern DSP circuitry than it was with older analog components. Let’s now cut to a design meeting at a TV manufacturer.

The engineers are reporting to the product team that they need more time to add the necessary biasing to more fully compensate for the LCD response curves. The marketing people immediately chime in that they can sell them the way they are now because most buyers won’t care, won’t say much if they do, or will think the image has “punch”. The sales people then show a PowerPoint slide of their expected sales figures for the coming Christmas season if they RTM now. The product manager refers to his revenue goals and daydreams of his year end bonus. He looks up with a pregnant pause then tells the engineers to shut up and seal the design. - I've been there.

An important mitigating factor is the industry's feature and spec wars. Since the current ad campaigns obsesses on contrast ratio, it is easier and cheaper to procrastinate on the development of smooth, properly mapped tonal curves because they might appear to the average consumers as a lack of PUNCH despite the fact that punch is bad. Real life has no punch. It is a continuous canvas of subtle tonal modulations. But like the Neaderthals in the next car, all too many associate boom, bang, and punch with being "better" - and that is what sells boom boxes and TV's these days. Oh, well.

So, defects aside, tonal clipping is not a given, is mostly avoidable, and is more a matter of more extensive DSP design time. The industry just jumped on it a little too fast and are catering more to the wallet than to accuracy. Had not my XBR CRT died a slow death, I would have waited at least another year.

And that’s my take on Tonal Clipping which is, of course, only my opinion. Ha!

riverside guy, you analysis of the lcd versus crt is good.

but the negative condition you write on isn't the technology, it's your set. :) if your CRT were brand new, and not years old and tired, it'd be different. That punch you describe as lacking is a sypmtom of a high mileage tube TV.

zv

Ah, but you may not realize that the high voltage supply has an actual effect on black level in CRTs. I've had them go bad and 100% noticed a small "boost" when they got replaced. In 05, I did need to replace it and did see it gain some punch. Just not near as much as the LCD had when delivered. Plus, this is only a guess, I suspect that the inevitable degradation in black level that CRTs DO have will not be a factor for LCD. My LCD monitor on my computer is 5 years old and hasn't lost a bit of black level.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying all is perfect. I DO want more control than I can now have, I personally think that's a critical issue in LCD tech going forward.

All,

The justscan firmware that has been mentioned in this thread is now available in the UK!

For all those who haven't read the thread, the justscan firmware enables 1:1 pixel mapping on the HDMI inputs. A poster named Magoosteruk contacted the Samsung Yateley facility over there and got them to release the firmware.

I contacted Samsung here, but they of course had no idea what I was talking about.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3550960&postcount=1

There is hope!

EDIT: I have sent Magoosteruk a PM asking him to contact the Samsung Yateley facility that developed the firmware and see if they will get their counterparts here in the US to do the same thing.

Does it permanently eliminate overscan on the HDMI port, or make it selectable?

I too have the SA 8300HD DVR and the 4696D. When the Cox installer delivered the DVR, he warned me that it wouldn't work with an HDMI cable. He was right!

What did you learn from tech support? I have the latest firmware and Cox tells me a firmware upgrade will not fix the HDMI issue. When I use the component connection, the picture is out of sync' with the audio. (Denon 2807 AVR.
sorry for the late reply.... tech support at first said HDMI would not work, was not supported , too new .. depends on the tv... I put then on a con call with the sales dept. who said they did support hdmi and let them fight it out!
Im a newbie with this stuff so here goes
The result is this.. brighthouse cannot support a componet and a hdmi at the same time ..its either or..( something with their programming)
I unpluged my SA8300, waited 10 min, installed my hdmi to the tv and the box, plugged in the sa8300, waited 1 min, turned on the 8300 and waited the boot, turn on the tv, tuned the sa to a hd channel and it worked! went in to the settings on the 8300, TV format and choose the option of fixed.
Hd channels works fine, non hd came up in 4;3 i had to use the strech option .. I don't like it
I think im going back to the componet cables
hope this helps

So, defects aside, tonal clipping is not necessary, is completely avoidable, and is only a matter of more DSP design time. The industry just jumped on it a little too fast. Had not my XBR CRT died a slow death, I would have waited at least another year.

And that’s my take on Tonal Clipping. Ha!

Indeed I hope my "screed" didn't give the impression I thought all was fine! 100% this is an area that needs attention. In the "professional" image editing world, they still debate LCD vs. CRT (normally as it relates to gamut, not gamma). 100% they need to provide some user tools "expand the interior range." At times, they are a tad too "punchy."

What I didn't talk about was how this issue (IMO) only affects certain material. For almost all HD sports, it's a total non-issue. Some movies and some TV drama, yes it is an issue.

And that's another thing, "contrast ratio." It's supposed to be all about how many intermediate steps are capable of being displayed. BUT, nobody EVER states any empirical measure of exactly where the white and black points are, so the quoted measure is completely misleading.

Guys, it can be impossible to respond to queries without knowing a bit of data, like the cable or satellite system, the STB, the software and version that runs on it. It's easy to get a "this doesn't work" "yes it does work" that is meaningless because neither post bothers to spec what they are using.

So I can say "The 8300 does not support simultaneous component and HDMI connections." BUT all of you will also see that I can only say it's true in my environment, which is clearly labeled in my sig.

Does it permanently eliminate overscan on the HDMI port, or make it selectable?


my understanding is that it is a selectable option - turn it on or off.....best of both worlds really

For XOR42 and others: PC Magazine has a review of the LN-S4696d at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2082724,00.asp?kc=PCRSS02129TX1K0000530; which isn't flattering. It also has a review of the Sony KDL40XBR2 that is praiseworthy for hd channel watching, but says it isn't good on standard definition channels (which unfortunately we watch much of the time):
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2071553,00.asp
Like to know your response after reading these.

One glaring issue with the review is they state there is no backlight control. That is simply not true and I would think that might impact some of their comments about things being washed out.

In the "professional" image editing world, they still debate LCD vs. CRT (normally as it relates to gamut, not gamma). 100% they need to provide some user tools "expand the interior range." At times, they are a tad too "punchy." What I didn't talk about was how this issue (IMO) only affects certain material. For almost all HD sports, it's a total non-issue. Some movies and some TV drama, yes it is an issue. And that's another thing, "contrast ratio." It's supposed to be all about how many intermediate steps are capable of being displayed. BUT, nobody EVER states any empirical measure of exactly where the white and black points are, so the quoted measure is completely misleading. Good points, RG. Being in that group, I've suffered the debates as well. My strongest reaction, though, is to the complete clipping of lower level tonalities. This typically results from the incorrect mapping of a source's luminosity levels to the characteristics of the display device. In the case at hand, the source's tonal range needs to be compressed and shifted upwards to properly fit the material into the more limited luminosity range of the LCD. That's how they would eliminate the heavy clipping I am seeing. But it would also produce the softer tonality you noted about CRT's. As per my previous post, although that is ideal, it doesn't play to the ideas of high-contrast and punch that the marketing guys like to pitch.

Perhaps when the techno-graphics crowd makes these issues more prevalent in the press and the "Mr. Know It" and "Consumer Reports" pablums report it to the street, the OEM's will then try harder. It only took about 30 years for consumer stereo OEMs to put quality in before tacking on the features. This brings to mind the old Zenith slogan, "The quality goes in before the name goes on", that was first used to promote their then-leading-edge radios in 1927 and has since been borrowed by countless others. With techno-acceleration, perhaps we'll see some maturity within 5 years. I'm not holding my breath.

I got the LN-S4695d and I gotta say after 2 weeks I’m a little disappointed after dropping $2800 on it. The HD do look clear but as many posts I have read, I have a major fuzz or noise in all background on both regular channels and HD. I have used the settings from other posts, turned on and off the DNI and the Noise reduction and the pic for non HD is crap . My DLP looked so much cleaner before it was stolen ( that’s why I went for a new one) with the same Comcast box, same hdmi cables ect. I decided on LCD instead of another DLP due to many posts on this forum.I have even switched over to component and it looked just as bad. I called Samsung and they says its my Comcast box. I call Comcast and they tell me the box is good, the signal is strong ect. I have 2 weeks left on my 30 day return with Best buy. I have read the problems with the Sony and the Sharp LCD’s as well

One glaring issue with the review is they state there is no backlight control. That is simply not true and I would think that might impact some of their comments about things being washed out. Well, actually, the reviewers may have made that statement based on the fact that some other sets like the Sony XBR series has separate and independent controls for "Energy Saving" and "Backlight". I also made a similar comment in one of my posts which conjectured on the differences between the XBR3 and the 4x9x. Perhaps Sony's "Backlight" control attempts to more accurately reduces brightness levels while maintaining tonal curves whereas the "Energy Saving" control is more of a brute force method that does other things, too. I do not know. Bottom line: It is true that the 4x9x series does not have a separate "Backlight" control but its Energy Saving control does also reduce backlight levels.

(-: All statements are false :-)

I got the LN-S4695d and I gotta say after 2 weeks I’m a little disappointed after dropping $2800 on it. The HD do look clear but as many posts I have read, I have a major fuzz or noise in all background on both regular channels and HD. I have used the settings from other posts, turned on and off the DNI and the Noise reduction and the pic for non HD is crap . My DLP looked so much cleaner before it was stolen ( that’s why I went for a new one) with the same Comcast box, same hdmi cables ect. I decided on LCD instead of another DLP due to many posts on this forum.I have even switched over to component and it looked just as bad. I called Samsung and they says its my Comcast box. I call Comcast and they tell me the box is good, the signal is strong ect. I have 2 weeks left on my 30 day return with Best buy. I have read the problems with the Sony and the Sharp LCD’s as well
that is strage. try hooking the cable straight in from the wall bypassing your box in the coax input.

For XOR42 and others: PC Magazine has a review of the LN-S4696d at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2082724,00.asp?kc=PCRSS02129TX1K0000530; which isn't flattering. It also has a review of the Sony KDL40XBR2 that is praiseworthy for HD channel watching, but says it isn't good on standard definition channels (which unfortunately we watch much of the time):
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2071553,00.asp
Like to know your response after reading these. Thanks, wtbrowN. I just read the PC Mag Samsung review. It seems the reviewer corroborated all of the problems I have been commenting on but with color test equipment. Perhaps he read my comments {laugh}. In particular, his notes on significant viewing angle degradation at low angles, purple tones in dark areas, loss of detail in dark areas, and inconsistent handling of different scenes hit all my points right on the head. Coupled with some of K4SMX's findings, I feel much better that I wasn’t dreaming. It is also diminishing my hopes that my replacement unit will fare any better.

I just updated this post because I just re-read the Dec-06 PC Mag XBR review you referred to, as well. Although its claims regarding the tonality issues seem far and away better than the later PC Mag review of the 4696, he made the following comment which strongly suggests the viewing angle problem is based on the screen being the same Samsung LCD as the 4696:

"I was somewhat more surprised at how quickly the color saturation faded with an increase in viewing angle—something I usually encounter with value-priced LCD HDTVs. But with proper setup and seating position, the KDL-40XBR2 delivers an impressive viewing"

To require a "proper seating position", as in 1 seat in the room, is an extreme disability for us. Like most consumers, our TV is our main source of evening entertainment, news, and movies. To have a $3k display work well in a family environment for only 1 person sitting exactly in one spot is for us, well, nuts! I can only see it working somewhat acceptably in the scenario where the household has a large budget, the set is placed in a room used only by an individual or just 1 spouse, or by lovers who are intertwined on the same spot on the couch. Don’t get me wrong - I really love intertwining. But to have to do it all the time just to watch TV and not for other reasons could get tiring {laugh}.

It seems the PC Mag reviewer may have been too impressed by other factors such as higher contrast and supposedly better blacks to expound on the angular deficiency which, to us, is a severe problem for our needs and a real showstopper.

All this seems to substantiate that the XBR2/3:
- is better in tonality, black level, and contrast
- is just as terrible with viewing angles greater than zero.
- suffers cloud issues much more than the 4696
- costs way more than the 4696.
- doesn't have a CableCard slot.
- has Sony rep for bad service and short MTBF

I guess I am, at once:
- Glad I backed away from trying the XBR3 as a +$1k replacement
- Sad that 4696's and XBR2/3's can't be enjoyably viewed off-angle
- Desperate to find a display or technology what works for us.

Considering all technologies, are there any units that have:
- A cost of $4k or less
- True native 1080p display
- Up to 40-50 degree off axis viewing w/o major degradation
- Smooth tonality from highest to lowest tone levels
- Minimal or zero clipping of dark tones
- Reasonable blacks and contrast
- Doesn't fry your retinas to achieve above characteristics

Though I haven't checked out every RP on the market, DLP or otherwise, all those I did see were terrible in terms of muddiness, angle viewing, etc. Like looking through a dirty window that clouds up near the edges even when viewing dead on. Completely unacceptable for our needs.

I guess that leaves plasma with its door screen graininess. Perhaps the newer 1080 units mitigate that. I briefly saw a Pioneer 46" that seemed decent but its super-insanely-shiny surface might be a major problem for us with two wide doorways to the lights of two other rooms behind us on either side.

Sorry. I started rambling. Meanwhile, I am still waiting for a 4696 replacement which I will retest and give one more 30 day chance to and will also try to eyeball a Mitsubishi 46231 unit.

Best of luck in your search.
Remember - it's just a TV....and life is too short to spend all our waking hours debating over color saturation and cloudiness....

New sets will be affordable in a year or two and the process will start over again...

So this only goes out to owners of the 4095/6. I notice a small amount of motion blurring. Even with an hd dvd xbox360 and movies like King kong. For example, if I press still on the remote during a chase/ fast moving scene -- the image is blurry! Is this a result of the tv or the movie. -- does anyone else experience this? Is there a way to reduce this motion movement! Also I watch in Dynamic with the Sharpness down, it seems fine.

Thanks

For XOR42:When you had the crt in the same room, you put up with the reflections/glare, right? So the plasma can't be any worse and probably is better. The screen door effect is not visible at all at normal viewing distances. Look at the Toshiba and the Panny if you consider plasmas, with the Tosh having the big advantage of stretching SD pictures to fill the screen without making people look so fat as the other brands all do.

So this only goes out to owners of the 4095/6. I notice a small amount of motion blurring. Even with an hd dvd xbox360 and movies like King kong. For example, if I press still on the remote during a chase/ fast moving scene -- the image is blurry! Is this a result of the tv or the movie. -- does anyone else experience this? Is there a way to reduce this motion movement! Also I watch in Dynamic with the Sharpness down, it seems fine.

Thanks
The recommended setting for sharpness is zero.

Best of luck in your search.
Remember - it's just a TV....and life is too short to spend all our waking hours debating over color saturation and cloudiness....

New sets will be affordable in a year or two and the process will start over again...

And so maybe XOR42 should pick up a 34" 1080i CRT in the meantime. He could probably even dig up a 34HS non-XBR Sony from a year ago for<800. Should be some XBR's out there as well. Toshiba made 34's, too.......... The Sony 34" CRT settings thread is massive. He could spend month's there..........AND be happy!

There is another review of the LN-S4096d at http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_LN_S4096D/4556-6482_7-31954846.html?tag=sub which compares it to Sony xbr2 and several others. Also has picture settings under "Tips and Tricks", base on using the set in a darkened room. It praised the black levels and off axis viewing.

Despite ordering my 4696 late last month, it just arrived this week and I've been watching as much HD Content as I can find and have some questions.

This is my first HDTV and I have been finding this tv has a lot of pixelation during sports broadcasts. Slow moving scenes are good but quite a few pixels when the play gets moving. I just read the following quote "the LN-S4696D showed the same lackluster deinterlacing performance with high-definition video (1080i) as it did with standard-def video—good with static imagery, but losing fine detail with video containing motion (which is most video)." from a PC magazine review and have read other reviews complaining about the tv's ability to deinterlace video and am confused.

Is 1080i the only source that the tv will need to deinterlace? It won't have to deinterlace a 1080p broadcast right? I ask because I don't want to have the tv for a year and a half, waiting for a sports game to be broadcast in 1080p and have the same problem of the tv poorly processing the picture.

I bought a 1080p tv as a "future ready tv" so I don't have to upgrade again in a few years but so far I am finding that the HD signal plugged into my non-hd CRT is better picture quality. I have tried switching my cablebox between 720p and 1080i but am still not happy with the picture while watching basketball and hockey hd broadcasts.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

..........Is 1080i the only source that the tv will need to deinterlace? It won't have to deinterlace a 1080p broadcast right? I ask because I don't want to have the tv for a year and a half, waiting for a sports game to be broadcast in 1080p and have the same problem of the tv poorly processing the picture.

I bought a 1080p tv as a "future ready tv" so I don't have to upgrade again in a few years but so far I am finding that the HD signal plugged into my non-hd CRT is better picture quality. I have tried switching my cablebox between 720p and 1080i but am still not happy with the picture while watching basketball and hockey hd broadcasts.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Your new TV will be many years old before you see broadcast 1080p. What you need is an external video processor, or a new 1080p LCD TV that does a better job of de-interlacing. Please let me know when you find it.........