The 4696 that is supposed to arrive this week at american tv is still slotted to be here. However, I just found out that they only have a 5 day return/exchange policy. Is this normal, doesn't BB have 30 day? Also, does anyone know what the time table is for the 4696 at BB, if this is the case at American tv I may head over to BB for return policy. Also, does anyone know extended warranty policy of dead pixels at bb?

Once again, thanks for the information ahead of time.

Seth

This cable card discussion makes me think that a consensus is building: the 4695 is a better value than the 4696. The 4696 will probably be more expensive, and provide a cable card that very few want.

Am I wrong here?

The big reason cable card was unappealing to me was the fact you don't get any on on-screen tv guide channel.. its hard enough to find out what to watch with 300 channels; can't imagine not having a tv guide channel of some sort to search by.

Does anyone have any experience with ABT Electronics?

I went on Samsung's site to find an authorized online Samsung dealer and came across ABT. The reason why I ask in this forum is because I am planning on purchasing the 4696.

ABT is offering me a GREAT pre-order price for the 4696 which they said would be in stock the 2nd or 3rd week of August (the Samsung rep was apparently visiting and gave them that time frame). They are also willing to give me better pricing on anything else I wanted to complete my bedroom system. I am thinking the Denon AVR-1707 and the KEF 3005 Black speakers.

Anyway, the great pricing along with no tax (since I'm in California), free shipping, and a 30-day return policy makes this deal very tempting. I just wanted to see if any of you have had any good/bad experiences with them. They seem legit and were very nice and professional on the phone. They also have a retail store in Chicago.

Thanks in advance!

Just wanted to say that the 4095D is now in stock at CC :)

Call Samsung, they'll send a tech to you, if they can't fix it, they'll send you a new TV.

Oh guess what? They need to get me a new board, but since the set is so new they don't have any parts readily available so I will need to be patient. Meanwhile the problem continues to worsen and now it takes nearly a half hour before the full color picture kicks in. I kind of like watching 256 color (with all inputs) on my state of the art 40 inch LCD, it reminds me of my first PC. And of course it goes without saying that my wife is particularly impressed with this technological marvel.
It's back to BB for this sucker and I'll wait to see what comes out this fall. I understand that anytime you buy a complex and expensive piece of electronics there is a chance it will be defective, and I accept that. However, the correct customer service response would have been... "We can't get you the part so we will have a new set shipped to you immediately." I was trying to be considerate by not automatically returning it to BB, but instead Samsung would rather jerk you around and leave you hanging while they greatly appreciate you patience and your money. Heaven help you if you buy one online and find yourself completely at Samsung's mercy. At least I can return mine to BB. :mad:

Sorry to rant and rave. Now I feel better. Sort of.

Oh guess what? They need to get me a new board, but since the set is so new they don't have any parts readily available so I will need to be patient. Meanwhile the problem continues to worsen and now it takes nearly a half hour before the full color picture kicks in. I kind of like watching 256 color (with all inputs) on my state of the art 40 inch LCD, it reminds me of my first PC. And of course it goes without saying that my wife is particularly impressed with this technological marvel.
It's back to BB for this sucker and I'll wait to see what comes out this fall. I understand that anytime you buy a complex and expensive piece of electronics there is a chance it will be defective, and I accept that. However, the correct customer service response would have been... "We can't get you the part so we will have a new set shipped to you immediately." I was trying to be considerate by not automatically returning it to BB, but instead Samsung would rather jerk you around and leave you hanging while they greatly appreciate you patience and your money. Heaven help you if you buy one online and find yourself completely at Samsung's mercy. At least I can return mine to BB. :mad:

Sorry to rant and rave. Now I feel better. Sort of.

You are being far too kind. Escalate the issue to the manager at your BB and insist that he call around and find one for you. That's why you pay a premium to get the set from BB.

Does anyone have any experience with ABT Electronics?

I went on Samsung's site to find an authorized online Samsung dealer and came across ABT. The reason why I ask in this forum is because I am planning on purchasing the 4696.

ABT is offering me a GREAT pre-order price for the 4696 which they said would be in stock the 2nd or 3rd week of August (the Samsung rep was apparently visiting and gave them that time frame). They are also willing to give me better pricing on anything else I wanted to complete my bedroom system. I am thinking the Denon AVR-1707 and the KEF 3005 Black speakers.

Anyway, the great pricing along with no tax (since I'm in California), free shipping, and a 30-day return policy makes this deal very tempting. I just wanted to see if any of you have had any good/bad experiences with them. They seem legit and were very nice and professional on the phone. They also have a retail store in Chicago.

Thanks in advance!

Check out this link to Reseller ratings for a review on ABT:

Reseller ratings review for ABT (http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1845.html)

They have a 9.5/10.00 six month rating which is pretty darn good!

That's great news Sauron! I got a pretty good feeling from them. I always try to buy from a local vendor but the price savings, along with being an authorized Samsung online retailer is just to good to pass up.

My pre-order is going in tomorrow!

Sorry to get a little off topic, but has anyone heard of this Sammy 1080p plasma - the HPR8082? It's at ABT, and apparently, MSRP is $150,000!!! However, it is no where to be found on Samsung's site.

It's at ABT, and apparently, MSRP is $150,000!!! However, it is no where to be found on Samsung's site.

I'd hold out for a sale in a few months.

LNS5296D - this one sounds perfect, 52" 1080p, wide color gamut...wow.

I've been watching the Estimated Arrival Date for the 4096 on one of the on-line retailer sites. It has slipped all the way to Sept 18. The 4696 now has an estimated arrival date of Aug 16. Has anyone seen September dates at on-line retailers for the 4096?

my local retailer had the 4096d in Stock NOW...I have seen it with my 2 eyes ;)

That's good to hear. Actually now that you mention it one of the posters saw the 4096 at the Samsung Display store in NYC last weekend. Perhaps some of the specialized B&M stores will get them before the on-line retailers.

I've been following this thread for quite some time. I even returned a LN-S4092 back to CC about 1½ months ago after reading about the LN-S4095/6 here. Anyway, I have a couple of questions.

1. How do you guys feel about the extended warranty packages offered by CC/BB?? I not one to typically go for the store warranty business, but I've been told by more the one 'credible' person that its a good idea when purchasing a flat panel LCD. These store extended warrantys are a killer at $400-$500.

2. If you feel the extended warranties are worthwhile, what is/are the typical failures with LCD Flat panels??

I've been following this thread for quite some time. I even returned a LN-S4092 back to CC about 1½ months ago after reading about the LN-S4095/6 here. Anyway, I have a couple of questions.

1. How do you guys feel about the extended warranty packages offered by CC/BB?? I not one to typically go for the store warranty business, but I've been told by more the one 'credible' person that its a good idea when purchasing a flat panel LCD. These store extended warrantys are a killer at $400-$500.

2. If you feel the extended warranties are worthwhile, what is/are the typical failures with LCD Flat panels??
1. It's Insurance simply put and the B&M's it accounts for 40%+ of their profits. Like any type of insurance if you have it you may be protected and if you don't you may be screwed if it fails after original warranty.

2. I'm not aware of anyone tracking this officially but I'd be willing to bet that LCD's are one of the most troublefree panels of any/all. I base my opinion on owning three LCD TV's without an issue. One LCD Monitor on my PC for 5 years running 24/7 and still runs but is dimming now and this is before the newer long life panels. I also manage a network with about 250 LCD flat panels and 200 of them have been running for 4 years, not a single DOA when received and I've had one fail after the 3 year warranty and I had one with a dead pixel. Thus I never had to use the warranty on a single panel and I lost one after 3 years and the remaining run without instance and not a single repair incident.

I know of nothing else on my network as trouble free. Bottom Line - Who can predict a failure after years of use or environmental conditions of each persons home and climate that could shorten the life. To me the boasting of 60K hours and such may have the panel last but it is in direct denial of other electronic components that may be impacted by environment, i.e.; dust, dirt, humidity, heat cold. Just pop the case off a PC after a year in amazement of how many dust bunnies are within.

Most these same comparisons would hold true of an LCD TV with the tuners being the difference. Based upon my direct experience I feel LCD FP is the most trouble free and dependable Panel Technology. IMO. If I were buying a 57" Samsung LCD and paying $7500 I'd probably get an extended warranty but it wouldn't likely be through a B&M - you can buy them separate in many cases and for less money.

If I were buying a less expensive LCD I may not and instead use a credit card that extends the warranty. :)

You may want to use a credit card like American Express that will double the manf. warranty instead of buying one from BB or CC.

Thanks for the feedback. One last question. Does the DLP technology even compare in reliability to LCD flat panel?!? If not, what is/are the typically failure points in a DLP unit?? Curious as a Sammy 1080p DLP unit of 50" can be had for considerably less than a 40" LCD FP.

Thanks for the feedback. One last question. Does the DLP technology even compare in reliability to LCD flat panel?!? If not, what is/are the typically failure points in a DLP unit?? Curious as a Sammy 1080p DLP unit of 50" can be had for considerably less than a 40" LCD FP.

DLP doesn't compare. For one, you have to replace bulbs, which are not cheap.

The only thing I'd add to the previously posted wisdom is that there is a simple economics formula for expected value that is relevant. If you are paying a $500 warranty on a $3,000 TV, you are in effect saying there is a 1 in 6 chance it will fail ($3,000 * 1/6 odds = $500). There's no way the odds are that high, which is why the big box stores are making so much money on the warranties.

I never buy the warranty as product failure is pretty rare and usually when something dies I'm ready to upgrade anyway.

DLP doesn't compare. For one, you have to replace bulbs, which are not cheap.
Very true. But I guess some of my concern is that DLP units are a bit more 'mechancal (color wheels, bulbs, etc) and can be repaired. Whereas, if an LCD FP unit fails, its less likely to be repairable.

I appreciate all the feedback. Its helping me get 'over the hump' of deciding which unit to purchase, and as far as the extended warranties, I hate the thought of those in general.

LCD is more reliable, but aside from the lamp, that is not saying that DLPs are unreliable. TapeworksTexas, where I got my unit, sells extended warranties at a much cheaper price than the B&M guys, if that is the way you really want to go.

Does anyone have any experience with ABT Electronics?



Abt is legit. An old brick and morter store in Chicago

Oh guess what? They need to get me a new board, but since the set is so new they don't have any parts readily available so I will need to be patient. Meanwhile the problem continues to worsen and now it takes nearly a half hour before the full color picture kicks in. I kind of like watching 256 color (with all inputs) on my state of the art 40 inch LCD, it reminds me of my first PC. And of course it goes without saying that my wife is particularly impressed with this technological marvel.
It's back to BB for this sucker and I'll wait to see what comes out this fall. I understand that anytime you buy a complex and expensive piece of electronics there is a chance it will be defective, and I accept that. However, the correct customer service response would have been... "We can't get you the part so we will have a new set shipped to you immediately." I was trying to be considerate by not automatically returning it to BB, but instead Samsung would rather jerk you around and leave you hanging while they greatly appreciate you patience and your money. Heaven help you if you buy one online and find yourself completely at Samsung's mercy. At least I can return mine to BB. :mad:

Sorry to rant and rave. Now I feel better. Sort of.

Did you ask Samsung to please replace it?

It's a legit reason, that the set is so bleeding edge that parts aren't out quite yet.

I'm sorry you got a lemon.

I asked ABT if they had any work yet on when they'll start shipping the 4696 today, their response:

The Samsung LNS4696D LCD TV will start shipping in limited quantities with in 7-10 business days.

Did you ask Samsung to please replace it?

It's a legit reason, that the set is so bleeding edge that parts aren't out quite yet.

I'm sorry you got a lemon.

OK, to be fair I can't say enough about BB. I called my store of purchase and they told me that the 4095s were flying off the shelves and that their store wouldn't be getting any in the near future. Their earliest ship date to my area code was August 19th. They found a nearby store that had one more available. I rushed over with my lemon and they plugged it in and said "It shouldn't be doint that!" They quickly exchanged the set with the last one in the store. I hurried home (an hour away) and plugged the new one in and it was perfect. From my experience it's worth the extra few hundred dollars to buy from BB simply because of the safety net they provide. Sure, it was an inconvenience packing it back up again and loading it into the minivan and driving an hour up and then an hour back again, but at least I have a fully functional set that knocks my socks off when watching the Red Sox on NESN, CSI: Miami or The Tonight Show all in spectacular HD. :)

Is it my imagination, but why does component look better than HDMI with my SA 8300HD?

Is it my imagination, but why does component look better than HDMI with my SA 8300HD?
My HDMI on my SA8300HD went on the fritz when I got the last firmware update, so I have no way to corroborate this. My 8300HD goes into my Lumagen scaler via analog component, but then into the 4095D via HDMI.

has anyone managed to get the pc to display 1:1 map. at 1920x1080 over hdmi/dvi cable ?

I was at the samsung store in nyc, and yes they did have the 4096 on display. looked pretty sweet.

I've read through this entire thread and I haven't seen any comments on it.

Has anyone with this set watched any SD Sports? Any motion blur, artifacts, any negatives at all?

It seems from reading here that people are so/so on the SD from this set so I'm curious how the faster paced sports perform.

I watch a lot of NHL and I doubt they'll be HD any time soon and the NFL is only partway there so this makes a big difference to me.

Thanks,
-AK

DLP = fan noise, color wheel noise, high maintenance and service costs, low quality optical geometry, does not show the full panel means computer use is a headache, wombleation gives a softer image. High costing bulbs to replace, and very expensive color wheel light engine replacement. Large image at initial lower cost.

LCD = Silent, perfect geometry, simple PC use in many cases, higher cost for large screens upfront.

OK, to be fair I can't say enough about BB. I called my store of purchase and they told me that the 4095s were flying off the shelves and that their store wouldn't be getting any in the near future. Their earliest ship date to my area code was August 19th. They found a nearby store that had one more available. I rushed over with my lemon and they plugged it in and said "It shouldn't be doint that!" They quickly exchanged the set with the last one in the store. I hurried home (an hour away) and plugged the new one in and it was perfect. From my experience it's worth the extra few hundred dollars to buy from BB simply because of the safety net they provide. Sure, it was an inconvenience packing it back up again and loading it into the minivan and driving an hour up and then an hour back again, but at least I have a fully functional set that knocks my socks off when watching the Red Sox on NESN, CSI: Miami or The Tonight Show all in spectacular HD. :)

Is it my imagination, but why does component look better than HDMI with my SA 8300HD?

Glad to hear you got this resolved relatively quickly. Enjoy your new telly.

I've read through this entire thread and I haven't seen any comments on it.

Has anyone with this set watched any SD Sports? Any motion blur, artifacts, any negatives at all?

It seems from reading here that people are so/so on the SD from this set so I'm curious how the faster paced sports perform.

I watch a lot of NHL and I doubt they'll be HD any time soon and the NFL is only partway there so this makes a big difference to me.

Thanks,
-AK

Good question. Generally SD is going to look better from the 7-10 ft and beyond range. Once the NFL preseason starts, which I believe is Sunday night with NBC's Hall of Fame Game, I'll give you some SD/HD comparisons. I have watched a bit of SD golf and it's ok, but not as nice as HD, pretty much consistent with what people have said about SD in general on the 4095.

I asked ABT if they had any work yet on when they'll start shipping the 4696 today, their response:

The Samsung LNS4696D LCD TV will start shipping in limited quantities with in 7-10 business days.

Is the 4695 available at the same time? Later? Haven't heard/seen a word...

Is the 4695 available at the same time? Later? Haven't heard/seen a word...

Don't know, I don't even see it on their web site as available for preorder like the 4696 is.

I was looking at the 46 inch version of the older model at BB. At the time a clip of Batman Begins was playing, chase in the Batmobile. I noticed the black crush was pretty bad. A lot of just plain black hole screen where subtle near black details were lost.

I'm wondering if this is the case with this set, or is it just an instore poor setup problem?

Regards,

Mike

Since black crush is heavily affected by the ambient light in the environment, I would not use the in-store experience to determine positively ANY display's ability to render shadow details.

Bear5k, Did you get your HTPC working better and any update on fiddling you might have done with PC connectivity.

Would someone who has their 4095 connected to a PC on the VGA input please post a screenshot with the resolution set at 1920x1080? I'd like to see how icons and text look with the 4095 receiving an analog PC input.

Bear5k, Did you get your HTPC working better and any update on fiddling you might have done with PC connectivity.
My HTPC is dead at this point (motherboard failure is my current guess). It no longer powers on correctly, so it looks like a major rebuild is in order on this front. Sorry, but the HTPC is going to have to wait a few weeks. I'll work through the calibration, but I am guessing that there is no way to change the overscan short of a firmware update from Samsung.

BTW, you can change the USB port in the back from "service" to "AnyNet", though I am not sure what the latter provides in terms of functionality.

Since black crush is heavily affected by the ambient light in the environment, I would not use the in-store experience to determine positively ANY display's ability to render shadow details.

So what's your opinion of the blacks on these sets? Previous gen 720p and current 1080p version.

Mike

So what's your opinion of the blacks on these sets? Previous gen 720p and current 1080p version.

Mike

Blacks can be controlled by where you set the backlight, but with my 4095, the blacks are subjectively good, but not great, while watching video. Where you do notice the lack of black is with no signal. ;) For an absolute measure, let me get some measurements done in the next couple of days to provide an objective measure. As a comparison, I unfortunately have little experience with this end of the HT market (I'm a FP person first).

Later,
Bill

I was really thinking about buying the Samsung LN-S4096D, but well the price is insane..

is it really worth the money, for that why not buy the: PDP-4360HD

Blacks can be controlled by where you set the backlight, but with my 4095, the blacks are subjectively good, but not great, while watching video. Where you do notice the lack of black is with no signal. ;) For an absolute measure, let me get some measurements done in the next couple of days to provide an objective measure. As a comparison, I unfortunately have little experience with this end of the HT market (I'm a FP person first).

Later,
Bill

Bill,

I'm not too concerned with the absolute black level, I'm more interested in the sets ability to display detail in dark scenes. Since I'm also an FP person, I don't mind somewhat elevated black levels as long as I can see the detail.

Mike

so if blacks are no good, what's with the high price on those tvs. If I am spending over 3k on Samsung when I can spend half that on a cheaper model, I expect Samsung to have better black levels.

so if blacks are no good, what's with the high price on those tvs. If I am spending over 3k on Samsung when I can spend half that on a cheaper model, I expect Samsung to have better black levels.
Realize that I come from FP-land, where a black you can measure is considered bad. Also, please re-read what I wrote:

the blacks are subjectively good, but not great, while watching video

I would say most flat panels I have seen have blacks that range from "suck" to "bad". This device is bright enough and has high enough contrast (subjectively) that you do not notice it until there is not more video. Yes, you will notice an elevated black level during space scenes and similar stuff, but this is the major performance trade-off for this type of display, period.

If you want deep blacks, get a CRT.

Later,
Bill

Bill,

I'm not too concerned with the absolute black level, I'm more interested in the sets ability to display detail in dark scenes. Since I'm also an FP person, I don't mind somewhat elevated black levels as long as I can see the detail.

Mike

I am not nearly as knowledgeable as Bill but I do own the set and I agree that the backlight settings (aka energy saving off, low, med, hi) enable me to quickly adjust the set so I can see detail in dark scenes. I usually have it on medium, but during the day I like to keep the blinds open, so I may set it to low, depending on what I'm watching. At night, I sometimes go to high energy saving to get the darkest blacks, but then I lose some detail; usually medium is fine.

Coming from a four year old HD CRT, I was very concerned about black levels and initially biased against LCD in general as I was shopping for my latest, but I am rather satisfied with the 4095. I don't know what your viewing environment is, but as you may already know, those reflective mirror-like plasma screens effectively decrease actual, real world contrast if you don't live in a bat cave. The anti-reflective coating of the 4095 is a real plus for actual contrast.

Thanks Impetigo. I couldn't figure out how to do that.

url

hope that helps...

nice TV. was thinking about the 4095 or 4096...

Well, actually, that's not quite accurate. The DVI-I input gives a full 1920x1080 resolution through a DVI cable (but you only get 1080p via DVI digital signal) and it looks pretty good on the 37D90U. Some video cards (including my ATI x1600 pro) have some minor problem (1/2 inch vertical black bars at the left and right edge of the screen) with dot-to-dot mode, but it seems to be a matter of fiddling with your video card. In stretch mode, the entire screen is filled, and essentially all of the desktop is visible, except for a 1/2 inch margin all around the desktop. Very satisfied using it as a computer monitor. Only real complaint I have is the small but noticeable washing out when viewing off-center axis.

http://images17.fotki.com/v8/photos/4/45607/3709663/P1010129-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v326/photos/4/45607/3709663/P1010169-vi.jpg

http://images1.fotki.com/v320/photos/4/45607/3709663/P1010122-vi.jpg


depends on the card and software... I have it running dot by dot mode 1920x1080@60Hz... fits the screen edge to edge...

took some tweaking of the catalyst software but eventually it worked. ;)

http://www.kohi.org/pics/top.jpg[/QUOTE]

kohi : Thanks for the images, could you try displaying this test pattern on your set,
and report if you see a clean image of single spaced dots or random noise patterns,
it checks for 1:1 pixel mapping...


1:1 Pixel Mapping Test: http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64242807

kohi : Thanks for the images, could you try displaying this test pattern on your set,
and report if you see a clean image of single spaced dots or random noise patterns,
it checks for 1:1 pixel mapping...


http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64242807

I'll let you know...

kohi : Thanks for the images, could you try displaying this test pattern on your set,
and report if you see a clean image of single spaced dots or random noise patterns,
it checks for 1:1 pixel mapping...


1:1 Pixel Mapping Test: http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64242807

Nice set of patterns...

...the Pixel Mapping Test looks good. Clean image of single spaced dots

hope that helps...

Nice set of patterns...

...the Pixel Mapping Test looks good. Clean image of single spaced dots

hope that helps...

Update: It appears kohi was not talking about a Samsung set , still need someone to run the tests...

Thanks alot! I'm hoping to see a Samsung 46" 1080p set soon. I currently have the Westy 47", it offers a great image but has a few issues, I'd like to consider the Samsung as well.

So your getting 1:1 pixel mapping and seeing the full 1920x1080 desktop with nothing cut off on the edges?

Also, did you try any of the scales, to check for clipping?
Here's a good test for that:
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64350456/original

The older Samsungs had such contrast in the stores, I figured they must be clipping the video for all the pop?

Thanks alot! I'm hoping to see a Samsung 46" 1080p set soon. I currently have the Westy 47", it offers a great image but has a few issues, I'd like to consider the Samsung as well.

So your getting 1:1 pixel mapping and seeing the full 1920x1080 desktop with nothing cut off on the edges?

Also, did you try any of the scales, to check for clipping?
Here's a good test for that:
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64350456/original

The older Samsungs had such contrast in the stores, I figured they must be clipping the video for all the pop?



yes, on a Sharp 37d90u... DVI input...

Alright folks. I spent four hours in the SM of my Sammy playing calibration games. Some bad news: the best I was getting for CR was in the 350:1 range (as high as 367:1, as low as 330:1). The good news: this set can be calibrated to very good tolerance for grayscale and gamma from 30% stim on up (<3 dE from 30 - 80). Average point gamma was 2.3, and overall gamma was 2.23. It rarely gets better than this. The one downside to this was that the point gamma at 10% was way too high, so there is the reason for shadow detail being sub-par. I did not spend any time tweaking the gamma control to see how the set responded there.

I'll post more once I've gotten a bit of sleep (it's after 2:30am here), but I am VERY impressed with the grayscale performance of this set post calibration. Of course, now I will have to find a Sony LCD to compare against it, but that's for another day!

Oh, yeah, my next trick with this thing will be playing with the dynamic contrast.

Later,
Bill

yes, on a Sharp 37d90u...

Huh?

So we dont know if the Samsung 4096 / 4696 has 1:1 pixel mapping then.

That's 'must have' feature for many.
Being able to see the full 1920x1080 desktop at 60Hz with 1:1 pixel mapping and minimal clipping when a PC is connected.
The Westinghouse 47" set offers that, I'm hoping the new Samsungs and Sonys will too....

At least for me I get 1:1 pixel mapping thru a VGA port, so your only getting it for analog input, not thru HDMI.

TommyboyCAN : thanks for the info what set do you have?

Can you try this test pattern with the PC and confirm you see a clean image of single spaced dots:
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64242807

Also, do you see the full 1920x1080 desktop with nothing cut off on the side, and no black space around the edges?

How does this pattern look, do you see the full scale without steps blending together at the ends?
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64350456/original


Lastly, how do things change when the HDMI inputs are used?

Right the 4095/96 will not accept a PC input over HDMI at 1920x1080 without overscan.

TommyboyCAN : thanks for the info what set do you have?

4095D - but I'm strongly considering moving to the XBR2 or V2500 from Sony.

Can you try this test pattern with the PC and confirm you see a clean image of single spaced dots:
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64242807

Also, do you see the full 1920x1080 desktop with nothing cut off on the side, and no black space around the edges?
Nothing cut off and no spaces.

How does this pattern look, do you see the full scale without steps blending together at the ends?
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/64350456/original


Looks fine, with no blending.

Lastly, how do things change when the HDMI inputs are used?

HDMI I can't get the picture to sync at 1920x1080p @ 60hz I can only get it to work @ 1920x1080i @ 30hz. And at the resolution there is overscan and not true 1:1 mapping, plus the picture at least for text and other things looks really bad (being no progressive).

Hopefully that answers your questions. LCD1080 also knows all about these things as he is watching the same sets I have been (or at least I think he has).

Alright folks. I spent four hours in the SM of my Sammy playing calibration games. Some bad news: the best I was getting for CR was in the 350:1 range (as high as 367:1, as low as 330:1). The good news: this set can be calibrated to very good tolerance for grayscale and gamma from 30% stim on up (<3 dE from 30 - 80). Average point gamma was 2.3, and overall gamma was 2.23. It rarely gets better than this. The one downside to this was that the point gamma at 10% was way too high, so there is the reason for shadow detail being sub-par. I did not spend any time tweaking the gamma control to see how the set responded there.

What is the CR before calibration?

What is the CR before calibration?
My "baseline" was also about 350:1, but that was taken in the service menu, so it is hard to say whether this is representative of "out of the box" performance. I will say that the initial color temperature was a mind-blowing 12000K. For those curious, this would be what the "cool1" color temperature is out-of-the-box on "dynamic" mode.

Bill

...LCD1080 also knows all about these things as he is watching the same sets I have been (or at least I think he has).Yup at this point PC input over HDMI is all about the Sony V2500, the XBR2/3, and a new contender the Mitsubishi LT46231 due in October. The Mitsubishi is the best of all because it has a DVI-I input that passes through 1080p DVI-I signals from the PC with no down conversion. The only negative is that it weighs 96 pounds.

Huh?

So we dont know if the Samsung 4096 / 4696 has 1:1 pixel mapping then.

That's 'must have' feature for many.
Being able to see the full 1920x1080 desktop at 60Hz with 1:1 pixel mapping and minimal clipping when a PC is connected.
The Westinghouse 47" set offers that, I'm hoping the new Samsungs and Sonys will too....

Sorry for the confusion... I was replying to an earlier post regarding the 37d90u and pc connectivity via DVI...

I am also interested in information regarding the 96 series... 4096 and 4696.

My "baseline" was also about 350:1, but that was taken in the service menu, so it is hard to say whether this is representative of "out of the box" performance. I will say that the initial color temperature was a mind-blowing 12000K. For those curious, this would be what the "cool1" color temperature is out-of-the-box on "dynamic" mode.

Bill
Our HD DVD insider AmirM mentioned that in his initial tests on 4095, normal for color temp seemed most accurate of the basic settings (which is not saying it is perfectly accurate). Do you concur that this would be the best color setting for those of us who aren't able to calibrate?

Also, do you have any recommended settings (based on your subjective experience and/or any insight gained from your tests) for picture mode, backlight, contrast and brightness? I know you are busy but this would be a great help to the owners who aren't pros. Thanks.

I believe the samsung does 1:1 map. over vga. from a few posts back. as far as the sony xbr2, only the european models have confirmed 1920 over hdmi/dvi.

it has not been confirmed if the american version will do this.

Our HD DVD insider AmirM mentioned that in his initial tests on 4095, normal for color temp seemed most accurate of the basic settings (which is not saying it is perfectly accurate). Do you concur that this would be the best color setting for those of us who aren't able to calibrate?

Also, do you have any recommended settings (based on your subjective experience and/or any insight gained from your tests) for picture mode, backlight, contrast and brightness? I know you are busy but this would be a great help to the owners who aren't pros. Thanks.

When you enter the service menu, the Samsung resets several of the key user menu picture settings to their default. In particular, it sets color temp to "Cool1" and the picture mode to "dynamic" (which changes contrast and brightness). Thus, when you calibrate in the service menu, you are actually calibrating to these settings. As a result, for my post-calibration use, I am now set on using the "cool1" color temperature, which measures more or less 6600K. So, that is for anyone thinking of calibrating (highly recommended, a more thorough how-to will be published as part of the documentation of my software).

For regular users who are not headed into the service menu, "Warm2" was the closest color temperature, but it was still way too cool (blue, or too high). It was close to 8,000K, IIRC. Out of the box, "cool1" measured an average of 11,808K. This is very good as a default when compared to Samsung's target of 12,000K. However, compared to the video standard of 6504K, it stinks. Thus, use "warm2" to get anywhere close to correct.

For the rest of the user controls, the only tricky one is brightness. Beneath a setting of 24, brightness clips hard. When I set brightness to 20 and actually ran measurements, it was imperceptibly different at 10% from black. I now have brightness set at 24 as a compromise. Note, though, that this is after fairly extensive changes to the sub-brightness and sub-contrast settings. Please do not quote these as accurate out of the box.

I highly suggest users getting at least a copy of a basic calibration disc and flipping between a 0% and a 10% pattern (alright, that mostly means the GetGray disc) when setting brightness. If you can no longer see a difference, your brightness is too low. You will know when you get there since the difference between brightness at 23 vs. 24 was not subtle.

That's about it. Contrast can be set to 100 without any fear, then use the backlight control to meet the needs of your room with respect to ambient light, etc.

Hope this helps! (Graphs as soon as I can get them loaded).

Bill

For those wanting to see the full calibration report, you can see it on our support forums here:
http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128

(registration is required)

I think I might be able to improve what is represented here, but I am not at all unhappy with it as it stands.

Bill

Thanks - I am in awe of your skills; how fortunate for the owners that you bought this panel!

Thanks - I am in awe of your skills; how fortunate for the owners that you bought this panel!
Thanks for the compliment! The skill went into building the tool, though. After that, it is merely persistence. :) Seriously, I would be disappointed if "ordinary" enthusiasts could not calibrate this set with someone having spent a bit of time learning how twitchy these controls are.

Of course, since I do not get to do a lot of field work, I still may sell this one in a few months and move on to something else. Like the 52 inch. ;)

Bill

4095D - but I'm strongly considering moving to the XBR2 or V2500 from Sony.


May I ask why you are considering the move? What has you unhappy about the Samsung? As someone who is weighing these exact two models (4095 vs XBR2) I'm very interested to know your reasons.

Thanks,
-AK

The only thing that makes me unhappy about the Samsung is the lack of 1:1 support over hdmi, everything seems to be overscanned and mainly cause this TV is driven off an HTPC I'm not really happy about spending about 3k and knowing that the signal from the PC is going to Analog back to the Digital.

If I'm going to spend that much I want no worry, and no feature on my wish list left off.

It has nothing to do with the Picture quality or any other feature of the set.

I'm a real newbie to the LCD world. I know there is very little risk of burn in on an LCD but is there any type of concern over uneven wear or anything like that if you often have side bars up for 4:3 viewing?

If so does the 4095 have anything to help offset this?

does the 95 series have a option in the menus called "OVERSCAN" and have the options for it (normal, +1, +2).

this is something sony has on their tv's

I'm a real newbie to the LCD world. I know there is very little risk of burn in on an LCD but is there any type of concern over uneven wear or anything like that if you often have side bars up for 4:3 viewing?

If so does the 4095 have anything to help offset this?
Burn-in is not really a concern on LCDs. You might get something to "stick" after several hours, but it is unlikely and is even more rarely ever permanent.

does the 95 series have a option in the menus called "OVERSCAN" and have the options for it (normal, +1, +2).

this is something sony has on their tv's

Nope, no control for overscan at all that I can decipher.

The one downside to this was that the point gamma at 10% was way too high, so there is the reason for shadow detail being sub-par. I did not spend any time tweaking the gamma control to see how the set responded there.

I'll post more once I've gotten a bit of sleep (it's after 2:30am here), but I am VERY impressed with the grayscale performance of this set post calibration. Of course, now I will have to find a Sony LCD to compare against it, but that's for another day!
Later,
Bill

Thanks for all the great info. As a layman this is a little confusing. You mentioned that shadow detail is poor, but yet grayscale performance is impressive. I would think that these would be closely related. (Shadow detail is an important characteristic to me.)

Looking forward to your XBR results. :-)

I would ideally be comparing the 4695/96 vs the 46" XBR2/XBR3, but since the XBRs are so large (won't fit in the designated space), I'll likely have to wait for comparisons against the upcoming 46' V2500 (I think that's the correct Sony model #)

Alright folks. I spent four hours in the SM of my Sammy playing calibration games. Some bad news: the best I was getting for CR was in the 350:1 range (as high as 367:1, as low as 330:1). The good news: this set can be calibrated to very good tolerance for grayscale and gamma from 30% stim on up (<3 dE from 30 - 80). Average point gamma was 2.3, and overall gamma was 2.23. It rarely gets better than this. The one downside to this was that the point gamma at 10% was way too high, so there is the reason for shadow detail being sub-par. I did not spend any time tweaking the gamma control to see how the set responded there.

I'll post more once I've gotten a bit of sleep (it's after 2:30am here), but I am VERY impressed with the grayscale performance of this set post calibration. Of course, now I will have to find a Sony LCD to compare against it, but that's for another day!

Oh, yeah, my next trick with this thing will be playing with the dynamic contrast.

Later,
Bill

Bill, I will admit that many of these numbers don't mean much to me yet as I still have some learning to do.

Do you know how these CRs, Grey Scales and Black Level details compare to a good plasma (say a Pioneer 427X ?)

I'm just looking for some baseline comparison as to how they stand in relation to each other.

Bill, I will admit that many of these numbers don't mean much to me yet as I still have some learning to do.

Do you know how these CRs, Grey Scales and Black Level details compare to a good plasma (say a Pioneer 427X ?)

I'm just looking for some baseline comparison as to how they stand in relation to each other.
Here is a post from one of my users over in the UK with a Panasonic 50" 8UK commercial plasma (registration required to view the attachment). He's undoubtedly asleep now, but my guess is that if you start a thread asking about calibrating a plasma with CalMAN, he will oblige with his some more updated data.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3201553&postcount=40

Bill

Does anyone know where to find the Samsung LN-S5797D? It doesn't show up on BB website...

Thanks for all the great info. As a layman this is a little confusing. You mentioned that shadow detail is poor, but yet grayscale performance is impressive. I would think that these would be closely related. (Shadow detail is an important characteristic to me.)

While technically you are correct, the reality of most reviews/reviewers is that they try to isolate gamma errors from color errors. Different people do this in different ways, but when we talk about "grayscale tracking", this is usually referring only to the xy measurements. In other words, how well can the unit hit D65 at each measurement point, regardless of whether it is too bright or not bright enough.

Shadow detail can be lost in two major ways. The first is the one that an ordinary calibration disc helps fix which is setting the brightness/offset/bias control so that you can see a separation in dark elements. However, even after using that, you can still have lost shadow details if the gamma curve at low levels is too "flat". Ironically, a flat gamma curve at low levels corresponds to a gamma value being too high (the converse holds at the high end).

If you look at the gamma tracking graph on the last page of my calibration report, you see a big spike in the point gamma (3.36) at 10%. This will make shadows virtually indistinguishable. However, the chart from 30% - 100% is very, very good, and I bet I can get it to be truly excellent with just a couple of more tweaks. This comment is made on an absolute basis, and is independent of an LCD handicap. From the handful of LCDs my users have calibrated and shared the results with me, the Samsung is leaps and bounds better than most LCDs in grayscale tracking.

For comparison, look at the color temp graphs in the Home Theater Mgazine LCD face-off:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/606lcdfo/


Looking forward to your XBR results. :-)

I would ideally be comparing the 4695/96 vs the 46" XBR2/XBR3, but since the XBRs are so large (won't fit in the designated space), I'll likely have to wait for comparisons against the upcoming 46' V2500 (I think that's the correct Sony model #)
If someone has a Sony near me, I'd love to give it a look. However, I'm not spending 4+ hours of my life on someone else's TV without at least a little incentive. ;)

Later,
Bill

Does anyone know where to find the Samsung LN-S5797D? It doesn't show up on BB website...
So far you must have a BB with an In-store Magnolia setup in my area anyways and we have none but one under remodeling/construction.

Other dealers have it and a Samsung Authorized Dealer is Datavis out of NY. Others have seen and bought it at PC Richards & Sons in NY and sightings have been in Chicago, Florida and usually Mag stores and first owner on this forum was in the Palm Springs area and he got his about 6-8 weeks ago now. I want it but need an audition but none to be found in my area. Perhaps by the time it comes my way the price may drop further. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Bear5k - Very nice analysis and if I were to apply what you present have you ever compared these factors with an SXRD? I previously owned it and it's strengths in bringing out details with it's blacks and shades of gray were pretty amazing with HD Source and I'm not certain an LCD could ever match it or a Ruby as it's been tested out to be far higher than advertised - over 12K:1 SXRD and over 15K:1 for Ruby. As strong as Panny's PDP rep is with it's blacks it could not touch what I observed in my home with both panels with identical source feed and display of HD material. I'm a huge fan of LCD but wonder before I spend $7500 on the 57" Samsung if it can come close to an SXRD with it's dark details and shadows on that Samsung - I need an audition before forking out that kind of money.

I would think you could certainly apply the same principles as for me the SXRD's and Ruby strength is in that area and it can set the bar for others at least until SED arrives. Have you compared those strengths on LCos? There's much more to black than BLACK. Black alone does not provide details. My 45" Sharp though does Sin City amazingly despite PDP fans regularly trashing LCD Blacks but admittedly it cannot match the details the SXRD provides to make it somewhat more 3D and provide immersive HT WoW factor. My Sharp as the Samsung/Sony LCD's are great panels but I need bigger 45" doesn't cut it after having had a 60" panel so I may end up with a 70" SXRD for Theater viewing and my other three LCD's since going large on LCD's can mean having to finance it. Well, nice reviews and analogies on your part and thanks for sharing. :)

What is SED?

What is SED?
Supremely, Exquisitely Desirable ;)

It is a new display technology that is being developed primarily by Toshiba that will give us better contrast than CRTs and still be in a flat panel form factor. There's a thread around here on the subject. In other words, it is the "next great thing".

Hey Bear5k - Very nice analysis and if I were to apply what you present have you ever compared these factors with an SXRD? I previously owned it and it's strengths in bringing out details with it's blacks and shades of gray were pretty amazing with HD Source and I'm not certain an LCD could ever match it or a Ruby as it's been tested out to be far higher than advertised - over 12K:1 SXRD and over 15K:1 for Ruby. As strong as Panny's PDP rep is with it's blacks it could not touch what I observed in my home with both panels with identical source feed and display of HD material. I'm a huge fan of LCD but wonder before I spend $7500 on the 57" Samsung if it can come close to an SXRD with it's dark details and shadows on that Samsung - I need an audition before forking out that kind of money.

I would think you could certainly apply the same principles as for me the SXRD's and Ruby strength is in that area and it can set the bar for others at least until SED arrives. Have you compared those strengths on LCos? There's much more to black than BLACK. Black alone does not provide details. My 45" Sharp though does Sin City amazingly despite PDP fans regularly trashing LCD Blacks but admittedly it cannot match the details the SXRD provides to make it somewhat more 3D and provide immersive HT WoW factor. My Sharp as the Samsung/Sony LCD's are great panels but I need bigger 45" doesn't cut it after having had a 60" panel so I may end up with a 70" SXRD for Theater viewing and my other three LCD's since going large on LCD's can mean having to finance it. Well, nice reviews and analogies on your part and thanks for sharing. :)

SXRD is LCD with a twist, essentially (reflective LCD, rather than transmissive). A normal LCD panel just does not currently have the capability to match an LCOS/SXRD/DILA display in terms of contrast, shadow details, etc. However, the form factor is what generally sells flat panels -- the PQ is what has had to play catch-up. I'm personally going to be giving the Ruby's successor a hard look here in a few months to replace my somewhat aging Optoma front projector, but I do have the luxury of having multiple displays in my home.

For folks considering the trade-off, it really does come down to personal preferences. If you are not size constrained, then give the RPTVs or even FP a look. If the form factor or image qualities of the flat panels appeals to you, then head there. Any way you go, I can help you get the most out of what you've got, but you are the one who ultimately has to live with it! :)

Later,
Bill

Supremely, Exquisitely Desirable ;)

It is a new display technology that is being developed primarily by Toshiba that will give us better contrast than CRTs and still be in a flat panel form factor. There's a thread around here on the subject. In other words, it is the "next great thing".

If it ever sees the light of day?

LCD seems to have all the momentum right now...

If it ever sees the light of day?

LCD seems to have all the momentum right now...
There have been some previews for LCDs that have some pretty impressive capabilities, but we will have to see when those make it to market as well.

Just received confirmation that my pre-ordered 4696 is on the truck to be delivered at distibution center by monday and in store by wed or thursday at the latest for both viewing and pick up. They have 11 on the way and I am number 3.It's Thursday, did the 4696 arrive at the store?

I went to a couple Best Buys (BB) tonight and actually found some of the new Samsung sets on display - the 5797 and the 4096.

Both sets were hooked up to some Samsung play-back appliance (looked like a mini-HTPC as it had what looked like a HDD light flashing as it played) that I was told by the magnolia guys was sending out a 1080p signal via HDMI to both these sets.

Subjectively, the PQ was amazing! Granted, most of the material was very bright and vivid, which plays to the LCD’s strengths. There was one scene where they show this concert in a pretty dark environment that appeared a bit grainy – not sure if this was due to the display or just the limitations of filming/taping in a low light environment. No artifacts and nice contrast even after I turned off DNIe.

These current generation sets have come quite a long ways from the old 4692 and 4092 sets (720p sets). On these old sets I noticed a lot of artifacts and issues with what looked like scaling issues. The new ones don’t show any such problem – though it could be just because the 5797 and 4096 were using much better and dedicated 1080p signal sources. Regardless, I was just blown away by the PQ. The Elites (plasma sets right next to the 5797) looked very drab and blurry next to the samsung - though it is an unfair comparision as the Elite was only a 720p set playing a HD-DVD disc.

Even the scenes where we have fast motion (I Robot demo scenes) show no motion blur or “tailing” what-so-ever.

I had one of the sales guys put in a DVD connected to the component inputs of the 5797 set to see what SD looked like (well 480p at least) on this set. I was not pleased initially, but then realized this was a 57 inch set that I was watching from 3 feet way. So I stepped back to about 10 feet and it looked great! The DVD was Batman Begins and the dark scenes looked quite acceptable to my eyes.

Only problem is that the 4696 sets won’t be coming in until the end of August. :(

(btw, BB told me they have no plans on getting the 4x95 sets - so for those of us who have no intention of using the QAM tuners, we're out of luck.)

(btw, BB told me they have no plans on getting the 4x95 sets - so for those of us who have no intention of using the QAM tuners, we're out of luck.)
That's kind of ironic given that many BBs have been using the 4095 to show off the Samsung Blu Ray player since it launched.

Samsung lists 1080p over component for the 4696, but not for the 4096. Is this an error of omission, or will the 4096 lack 1080p over component (something even all 95's can do)?

but at least I have a fully functional set that knocks my socks off when watching the Red Sox on NESN, CSI: Miami or The Tonight Show all in spectacular HD. :)



Red Sox?

*blargh*

:p

I've read through this entire thread and I haven't seen any comments on it.

Has anyone with this set watched any SD Sports? Any motion blur, artifacts, any negatives at all?


-AK

I've been watchig baseball, if that counts ;) and no there isn't any blur or artifacts during the faster plays.

I watched Bourne Identity, with some fast car chase scenes, and no problemo.

I was at the samsung store in nyc, and yes they did have the 4096 on display. looked pretty sweet.

I can't look. :eek:

I watched Bourne Identity...

Time for a new identity...

(btw, BB told me they have no plans on getting the 4x95 sets - so for those of us who have no intention of using the QAM tuners, we're out of luck.)
I bought my 4095 at BB so that seems wrong.

It's Thursday, did the 4696 arrive at the store?


Absolutely not....


This is absurd. Actually American only has a five day return, exchange policy as well, so I may end up purchasing somewhere else, if they ever come in. Although, I must admit they have not called me, and I haven't called them, so they may be in.

seth

When you enter the service menu, the Samsung resets several of the key user menu picture settings to their default. In particular, it sets color temp to "Cool1" and the picture mode to "dynamic" (which changes contrast and brightness). Thus, when you calibrate in the service menu, you are actually calibrating to these settings. As a result, for my post-calibration use, I am now set on using the "cool1" color temperature, which measures more or less 6600K. So, that is for anyone thinking of calibrating (highly recommended, a more thorough how-to will be published as part of the documentation of my software).

For regular users who are not headed into the service menu, "Warm2" was the closest color temperature, but it was still way too cool (blue, or too high). It was close to 8,000K, IIRC. Out of the box, "cool1" measured an average of 11,808K. This is very good as a default when compared to Samsung's target of 12,000K. However, compared to the video standard of 6504K, it stinks. Thus, use "warm2" to get anywhere close to correct.

For the rest of the user controls, the only tricky one is brightness. Beneath a setting of 24, brightness clips hard. When I set brightness to 20 and actually ran measurements, it was imperceptibly different at 10% from black. I now have brightness set at 24 as a compromise. Note, though, that this is after fairly extensive changes to the sub-brightness and sub-contrast settings. Please do not quote these as accurate out of the box.

I highly suggest users getting at least a copy of a basic calibration disc and flipping between a 0% and a 10% pattern (alright, that mostly means the GetGray disc) when setting brightness. If you can no longer see a difference, your brightness is too low. You will know when you get there since the difference between brightness at 23 vs. 24 was not subtle.

That's about it. Contrast can be set to 100 without any fear, then use the backlight control to meet the needs of your room with respect to ambient light, etc.

Hope this helps! (Graphs as soon as I can get them loaded).

Bill

I spent some time tweaking with the basic controls (not in the service menu) using the guidance Bill provided above, and got a significant improvement in DVD playback via Xbox 360 and HD cable via Comcast/Motorola DVR.

I first set pic mode to dynamic and backlight on medium (DNIe off as well). Then I changed the color temp to warm2. As Bill said, this is the most accurate of the out-of-box settings. I was looking at video of a pool table and flipping through the color temps and warm2 definitely made the green table more green and less blue, so there is some subjective confirmation of Bill's objective measurements. That was huge improvement number one.

Next I set contrast to 100 (I had been using 90-95), and started to play with brightness. I found that the 28-31 range works rather nicely for DVD playback and HD cable tv. Bill had said 24, but that was after tweaking sub-contrast and sub-brightness via service menu and not to take 24 as optimal for out-of-box. I don't have a calibration disc or program, but I did use the THX optimizer on Star Wars Ep. VI to get a little guidance on the brightness levels. Turns out that THX optimizer kind of sucks because it gives you two ways to check brightness on same screen (one with THX logo vs. drop shadow and one with 10 boxes with different gradients) and they give contradictory results.

Anyway, going down to 24 for brightness seems to swallow too much shadow detail but 30 made the space scenes in Ep. VI look more black and less gray than what I had earlier. I also looked at HD Catwoman on the DVR and the black levels, shadow detail, contrast, etc. in night scenese were much better with the brightness around 28-30 than earlier when I had it at 50. I found that for watching pseudo-HD X-files on TNT HD that I have to push the brightness higher in the 30 range to avoid obscuring black details but that is probably due to the way X-files was shot, plus it's not true HD. Deadwood on HBO HD looked great with the brightness at 30. I will continue to adjust brightness depending on source material. I imagine that calibration would be the optimal solution but I did see significant improvements just using the basic controls.

Thanks again to Bill for sharing his results; I'm going to register for the CalMAN insider to see that calibration report and hopefully expand my understanding.

I'm glad it helped! :)

Bill

I bought my 4095 at BB so that seems wrong.

Hmmm...

I do hope my BB is wrong since I don't want to pay extra for 4696's QAM tuner. However, I did watch the sales guy punch in the model numbers on the inventory system and nothing came up that ended in xx95. But then again, it may be just the two BB stores near me.

Cheers.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question - I'm trying to figure out whether I should purchase the 4692D or the 4696D. My concern is that the 4696D does not have 1080p compatible HDMI inputs?

The spec sheets on Samsung don't explicitly indicate that they are. Only explicit indication for the component inputs. What is the deal with the HDMI?

Thanks in advance.

Hmmm...

I do hope my BB is wrong since I don't want to pay extra for 4696's QAM tuner. However, I did watch the sales guy punch in the model numbers on the inventory system and nothing came up that ended in xx95. But then again, it may be just the two BB stores near me.

Cheers.
Maybe they don't have the 4695 but they definitely carry the 4095. I had to get my local store to order. You can also check BB online to get a sense of what's available nationally.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question - I'm trying to figure out whether I should purchase the 4692D or the 4696D. My concern is that the 4696D does not have 1080p compatible HDMI inputs?

The spec sheets on Samsung don't explicitly indicate that they are. Only explicit indication for the component inputs. What is the deal with the HDMI?

Thanks in advance.
4692 is not a 1080p display.

The 95/95 series take 1080p over HDMI.

...I did watch the sales guy punch in the model numbers on the inventory system and nothing came up that ended in xx95. But then again, it may be just the two BB stores near me.Perhaps they're in the process of replacing the 4095's with the 4096's. Ask him to plug in 4096 and see whether that's there. I know that the national BB site is still advertising the 4095's.

4692 is not a 1080p display.

The 95/95 series take 1080p over HDMI.

Thank you Ryu. Yeah, I know 4692 is not a 1080p, but I was trying to figure out if 4696 is worth the price increase.

Did you mean "The 95/96 series" not "95/95"?
Just double checking before I clean out my wallet :)

Thank you Ryu. Yeah, I know 4692 is not a 1080p, but I was trying to figure out if 4696 is worth the price increase.

Did you mean "The 95/96 series" not "95/95"?
Just double checking before I clean out my wallet :)
Being able to turn off DNIe was worth a couple of hundred to me, on its own.

Being able to turn off DNIe was worth a couple of hundred to me, on its own.Is there no advantage to DNIe? Does everyone turn it off?

Is there no advantage to DNIe? Does everyone turn it off?
If you have reasonably competent video processing, either in your source units or a dedicated video processor, then it is garbage. Samsung's philosophy has been to overprocess the image such that it shows well on bad, in-store material, but it destroys good material at home, IME.

crutchfield now lists the LN-S5296D at $5,999 msrp. no release date is shown.

Thank you Ryu. Yeah, I know 4692 is not a 1080p, but I was trying to figure out if 4696 is worth the price increase.

Did you mean "The 95/96 series" not "95/95"?
Just double checking before I clean out my wallet :)

Basically the 95 and 96 series are the same panels, same electronics, just different features like cable card, QAM tuner. I think Bill said they even have the same service manual. It is definitely worth it to step up to 1080p, especially for such a large purchase, spending a few hundred more is well worth it.

Is there no advantage to DNIe? Does everyone turn it off?
I find that it produces more noise or artifacts in the picture so I never use it. There is a demo on/off mode that splits the screen and shows you pretty clearly why you don't want it. That was nice of Samsung. ;)

crutchfield now lists the LN-S5296D at $5,999 msrp. no release date is shown.


Does anyone have a street date for this display?

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By the way, to MUGEN:

I'm just getting into the series now, but...

SAMURAI CHAMPLOO IS HILARIOUS!!!!

Does anyone have a street date for this display?
----------------------------------------------
By the way, to MUGEN:

I'm just getting into the series now, but...

SAMURAI CHAMPLOO IS HILARIOUS!!!! AUGUST

sorry my name is from something else, but i know the show you are talking about.

Yup at this point PC input over HDMI is all about the Sony V2500, the XBR2/3, and a new contender the Mitsubishi LT46231 due in October. The Mitsubishi is the best of all because it has a DVI-I input that passes through 1080p DVI-I signals from the PC with no down conversion. The only negative is that it weighs 96 pounds.
One smart man. As for me I'm going to buy two or three more displays before then so I have something to complain about:)

I have a 4095 and keep hearing people talking about the backlighting setting. What is this exactly? I've looked through the menu but can't find a "backlighting" setting. Any help would be appreciated!

for people looking for professional pictures of the 4096, crutchfield has some up in their flat panel TV section. i would post the link but i havent made five posts yet :(

nevermind, now i have!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OpD3E1uP8YS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=305LNS4096

it's a really nice looking set. i cant decide whether i like this look better or the XBR3. i'm leaning towards the samsung in terms of looks.

anyone know when a HDMI 1.3 LCD set is coming out (not necessarily Sammy)?

I have a 4095 and keep hearing people talking about the backlighting setting. What is this exactly? I've looked through the menu but can't find a "backlighting" setting. Any help would be appreciated!

SeanN
It's easy to miss as it is called Energy saving and it defaults to off. Turn it on and choose from 3 settings. It will give you better blacks. There is a button on the remote so it is easy to change.

Roy

Bill, did you ever work out the overscan issues with the HDMI input you were having?
Does the overscan effect the component inputs as well?

nevermind, now i have!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OpD3E1uP8YS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=305LNS4096

it's a really nice looking set. i cant decide whether i like this look better or the XBR3. i'm leaning towards the samsung in terms of looks.

anyone know when a HDMI 1.3 LCD set is coming out (not necessarily Sammy)?

Probably not till next years models but it is not needed in my opinion for a few years and than maybe not ever. (on tvs)

Roy

For those wanting to see the full calibration report, you can see it on our support forums here:
http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128

(registration is required)

I think I might be able to improve what is represented here, but I am not at all unhappy with it as it stands.

Bill
Bill, pardon my ignorance on this calibration stuff. What settings do you recommend for the 4095 without going into the service menu? Right now I have Contrast at 70, Brightness at 30, Sharp 45, Color 40, Tint 50/50, Tone Warm 2, and E.Saving at Low.

I view all of my HD content through the Directv H20 via component (currently the H20-100 cant display via hdmi with Samsungs for some reason)

Thanks for your help.

it's a really nice looking set. i cant decide whether i like this look better or the XBR3. i'm leaning towards the samsung in terms of looks.

Yes, it looks identical to my 4092; at first I was a bit unsure not having had anything in piano-black. After about 2 days, I decided I really, really liked the look. To me it looked just so much more like a "modern" product than the Sony's. The Sony LCDs (XBR1's were the only ones at the time) looked like something that was made in the 80's.

(currently the H20-100 cant display via hdmi with Samsungs for some reason)

FWIW, HDMI negotiation can at times look like they won't happen. There has been an occasion where it seem my connection was "broken (i.e. I kept getting a "no signal found"message from the TV). All I remember is I did some turning on and off of equipment and it eventually started working.

FWIW, HDMI negotiation can at times look like they won't happen. There has been an occasion where it seem my connection was "broken (i.e. I kept getting a "no signal found"message from the TV). All I remember is I did some turning on and off of equipment and it eventually started working.

There is a known issue with the H20 receiver. It is not unique to the 4095, but to many Samsung hdtvs (plasma, dlp, lcd) - I guess Directv is working on it...

Time for a new identity...

He-He

I mean Bourne Supremacy.

Good flick.

Next I set contrast to 100 (I had been using 90-95), and started to play with brightness. I found that the 28-31 range works rather nicely for DVD playback and HD cable tv.

Very cool.

I'll try this tonight.

Now did you save this as a profile setting?

Once the NFL preseason starts, which I believe is Sunday night with NBC's Hall of Fame Game, I'll give you some SD/HD comparisons.

Ryu were you able to watch the game? What was your opinion? The biggest issue to me is ghosting or motion blur. Those tend to jump out at me.

Thanks.

Being able to turn off DNIe was worth a couple of hundred to me, on its own.

LOL!

Bill, pardon my ignorance on this calibration stuff. What settings do you recommend for the 4095 without going into the service menu? Right now I have Contrast at 70, Brightness at 30, Sharp 45, Color 40, Tint 50/50, Tone Warm 2, and E.Saving at Low.

I view all of my HD content through the Directv H20 via component (currently the H20-100 cant display via hdmi with Samsungs for some reason)

Thanks for your help.
I would take a look Ryu's settings. I tend to zero out the sharpness control, but other than that, Contrast >90, Brightness in the 25 - 35 range, Color Temp Warm2 will get you a ways there. Color and Tint are things I recommend using SpyderTV to set rather than using the cheap filters that come with DVE/AVIA (some can be good, some can be bad, and some of it is irrelevant because of where the grayscale is set).

Later,
Bill

Very cool.

I'll try this tonight.

Now did you save this as a profile setting?

After some further tweaking, I realized some cable TV requires a higher brightness setting (low 40s), so I set up one main picture setting on Dynamic (with brightness at 30), and one at Normal (with brightness at 42 or so). Everything else is the same (contrast 100, color temp warm2). That way i can just hit that red P.Mode button and instantly change depending on source material.

Ryu were you able to watch the game? What was your opinion? The biggest issue to me is ghosting or motion blur. Those tend to jump out at me.

Thanks.

Sorry - we were out of town and got back later than expected. Actually though I can say that I watch NFL Network all the time (in SD and haven't noticed problems with motion blur or ghosting). I will test with a live game and let you know.

I would take a look Ryu's settings. I tend to zero out the sharpness control, but other than that, Contrast >90, Brightness in the 25 - 35 range, Color Temp Warm2 will get you a ways there. Color and Tint are things I recommend using SpyderTV to set rather than using the cheap filters that come with DVE/AVIA (some can be good, some can be bad, and some of it is irrelevant because of where the grayscale is set).

Boy, this is what convinces me that there is a greater amount of variance in the "signal" each of us gets from the various cablecos and/or STBs. If I set 90/25 as you suggest, I'd have an unwatchable picture, especially on anything involving film as the original source. And Warm2??? Would make everything way, way too red! And I'd bet you'd (maybe?) say to have chroma at 40-50? Anything past 25 would be positively nuclear in my area!

Boy, this is what convinces me that there is a greater amount of variance in the "signal" each of us gets from the various cablecos and/or STBs. If I set 90/25 as you suggest, I'd have an unwatchable picture, especially on anything involving film as the original source. And Warm2??? Would make everything way, way too red! And I'd bet you'd (maybe?) say to have chroma at 40-50? Anything past 25 would be positively nuclear in my area!
Too red? One of us has been watching properly calibrated video for a few years. Which one of us do you think that is? ;) Seriously, you are no doubt used to watching color temps in the mid-9K range and up. Of course my settings will look too red to you!

BTW, color and tint are irrelevant for me as everything I feed the Sammy is digital.

Looks like BB is now advertising the sister set to these Sammys - the KDL46XBR2/XBR3 sets. Out of curiosity, has anyone had a chance to compare the PQ and scaling of the Sony and Samsung 1080p sets in person?

I took a peek at the Sony thread and didn't see anyone mention quality compared to the Samsungs.

Cheers!

The 4096 is now up on BB's Magnolia site.

Looks like BB is now advertising the sister set to these Sammys - the KDL46XBR2/XBR3 sets. Out of curiosity, has anyone had a chance to compare the PQ and scaling of the Sony and Samsung 1080p sets in person?

I took a peek at the Sony thread and didn't see anyone mention quality compared to the Samsungs.

Cheers!
Actually, from the pricing Tapeworks sent me this afternoon, the V2500 is the sister set to the 4x95 (a hair more, in fact). The XBR2 is probably a touch more than the x96, and the XBR3 is even more beyond that.

Later,
Bill

Hey all, I'm in a bit of a quandary. I bought the 4095 this past weekend and I am not at all impressed. For background purposes, I have owned a Sony A10 RPLCD (took back because of silk screen effect). And a 42PX60U Panasonic plasma (took back because I realized it didn't display all of 720P resolution and XBOX 360 video games which is impossible for a 1024X768 set). Here's the strange thing. XBOX 360 games look incredible! Much, much better than the 42 inch plasma. But HD content on my Comcast Motorolla box do not look as good as on the supposedly inferior plasma. INHD shows look soft and fuzzy (especially that poker show that was on earlier this evening). It really varies from show to show on INHD. The Sunday night Hall of Fame Game looked absolutely terrible, LOTS of noise, blurring, and macro blocking. I was looking forward to CSI Miami because it is shown in 1080i and Westa6969 is always raving about how well it looks on his 1080P Sharp LCD. It does look pretty good but again, the plasma looked just as good. Obviously, somethings wrong here. I was expecting to have a "wow" moment but so far, HD looks noisy, pixelated, soft and blurry. I also seem to be having a lot of vertical banding which varies wildly from station to station. Is everyone having a better viewing experience with their sets? Is it possible my set is a lemon? I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

I just returned my 4095 this weekend because I was left pretty disappointed with the overall viewing experience and, more importantly, the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. When viewing 1080p content, the set is excellent and I was very pleased, however, most of the content available today isn't anywhere close to 1080p and even the 720p and 1080i content I saw was highly compressed and displayed a lot of artifacts and blocking when viewed within 3-4ft. In the end, I may end up getting a cheap Westinghouse for a year or two while I wait for more quality content to be available and the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war to sort itself out. From my perspective, I'm starting to ask myself why I want to spend $3k on a TV now that won't reach its full potential for a few years when I can spend half of that now on a TV that's adequate and another ~$1500 on a TV 2-3 years from now that will likely be twice as good as the 4095 and probably larger.

one queston: this overscan thing is holding me back from purchasing this 4095.

what exactly is this overscan thing? Does it impact DVD, hd-dvd, ps3, blu-ray, cable tv, etc or just the PC?

If it doesnt impact any of the list above other than the pc, then i have no problem purchasing it.

someone plz confirm.

Actually, from the pricing Tapeworks sent me this afternoon, the V2500 is the sister set to the 4x95 (a hair more, in fact). The XBR2 is probably a touch more than the x96, and the XBR3 is even more beyond that.

Later,
Bill

From everything I've seen (and I too received Brian Poole's v2500 pricing), the xbr3 is running dead-on with the lns-xx96, with the xbr2 running slightly less (but still more that the lns-xx95). This time around, price will not be a reason to forego the Sony if that's your preference. For me, the best value out of the entire 1080p pack is the Sony kdl46v2500.

I just returned my 4095 this weekend because I was left pretty disappointed with the overall viewing experience and, more importantly, the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. When viewing 1080p content, the set is excellent and I was very pleased, however, most of the content available today isn't anywhere close to 1080p and even the 720p and 1080i content I saw was highly compressed and displayed a lot of artifacts and blocking when viewed within 3-4ft.
I certainly would not blame the panel for the compressed artifacts. My Sharp 45" is a native 1080 panel that does not take 1080P input but it's amazing with 1080i and I experience none of the events you report which appear to be source not the TV as my Sharp is from Nov 2005 and with good feed I can get within inches before seeing any pixeling - especially when using dot-by-dot view mode. I favor these Samsungs each time I see them but find a 40" too small for HT immersiveness and my 45" comes in so clear at 8.5' I'll be upgrading to larger soon - so what the hell is wrong with 1080i?

I don't understand folks bitching about 1080i as it's fantastic on my panel and some shows I cannot imagine full 1080P being much better. The only crap HD I get are the FAKE Sport HD like some of the Golf but anyone having these panels for any amount of time know how to differentiate those factors as sports in 1080i using full HD cameras are an amazing experience ande I sure the hell wouldn't trade that experience as 1080i sports is a you are there experience NOW - not 2-3 years from now. All one has to do is switch the channel to something like NASCAR and I was never a fan of NASCAR but hell it sure the hell looks great in wide screen HD, as does CSI Miami, Leno, Letterman, PBS HD, Discovery HD, INHD et al - why would I wait for more? Yes, I want more but why wait?

Every Sporting Event I've seen in HD 16:9 has been a totally new experience - in fact in some cases you can see the plays developing in ways weren't possible before. Before going with my LCD's I owned a Sony 36" CRT DV and damn I miss nothing about that TV as it was something you looked at but did not experience like these panels in 1080i(Rodney Dangerfield of Display Mode).

My source is Comcast HD STB Cable and HD DVD and I don't have artifacts or motion blurr but realize HD Broadcasts from time to time has hiccups via the nature of it but 99.999% of the time my HD whether it be HD Channels or HD DVD is crystal clear and sure the hell don't need to wait for a few years for anything. Outside SD Turdvision my viewing is an "EXPERIENCE" I wouldn't trade for waiting period as I've also owned an SXRD that was kick ass WoW in the sweet spot with HD. I assert it's not the TV but YOUR Source.

Ahhh NFL and NCAA Football in 1080i HEAVEN coming to a panel near us Soon and Bowl Games , and Movies in HD and HD DVD presenting standard DVD's like they are HD - need I present more content evidence? . . . :cool:

Westa,

If you would read my post and not simply overreact to it, you would see that I returned the 4095 for two reasons. The first, was that it would not allow 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI, which for me was the first real deal breaker as I planned to keep the set for a while and planned to use it with an HTPC at some point. (Yeah, I already know you have issues with HTPCs) The second, was due to the content not being adequate for the TV. At no time, did I ever say that the TV was of poor quality, and I find it rather amusing that you seem to take my post so personally. :rolleyes:

In my viewing experience, and that is the one that matters, the content I was feeding it simply did not take advantage of the set and did not meet my expectations. DVDs played with my OPPO were ok from 6ft away, but exhibited noise when viewed closer than that. OTA 720p and 1080i HD content wasn't bad, but even that had a tendency to display noise when viewed closer that 6ft away. Finally, the SD and HD cable signal I fed over both HDMI and component left a lot to be desired. This noise is not the result of a defective set as I've seen it on all HDTVs. The fact that you're happy with the content you receive is great and I'm happy for you, but talking on an internet forum about how much you enjoy the picture you receive won't magically change my mind about what I see directly in front of me.

Ultimately, it comes down to content and most of the content available today is way too poor and overcompressed for me to be truly happy with the set. I honestly don't watch much TV and would use it mostly for the occasional movie or console game, but I want to be able to enjoy the picture regardless of what I'm watching, whether I'm sitting 2ft away or 10 ft away, and I simply can't do that right now. Yes, my standards are high, but they aren't unreasonable and when I'm spending a few dollars or a few grand, it's the manufacturers and content providers that have to meet my demands if they want my money.

Those who are wondering whether they should buy this set should realize that my opinion is just that, my opinion. Everyone has different expectations and sensitivity to viewing characteristics, so please don't consider my experience the bible. Evaluate the set as you always should and realize that the 4095 is good enough that it will reveal the quality of the content... or in my case, the lack there of.

one queston: this overscan thing is holding me back from purchasing this 4095.

what exactly is this overscan thing? Does it impact DVD, hd-dvd, ps3, blu-ray, cable tv, etc or just the PC?

If it doesnt impact any of the list above other than the pc, then i have no problem purchasing it.

someone plz confirm.

In my experience, and others can confirm this, the overscan really only shows itself when feeding it a signal over HDMI from a PC video card. I was unable to recreate the overscan problem when feeding it a signal from my motorola cable box or OPPO DVD player. I'm still not quite sure how the TV managed to display everything properly except the PC, but may be due to video card not sending the right signal or may be a result of the video card failing to negotiate the handshaking and DRM protocols. I stopped worrying about it after I decided that it wasn't worth my time and effort to develop a hacked up workaround when there were TVs that would support digital 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI like the Westinghouses, Sharps, and from what I recently heard, the Sony XBR2/3.

i put up a poll for all the 4095d owners... please vote..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708480

does the 4095d upconvert the signals to 1080p

does the 4095d upconvert the signals to 1080p
Yes.

so this tv is good just for hdtv, and games but not for pc... am i correct?...\


if so , then i will keep it...

Great for HDTV (see your poll - perhaps too good), good for console games, and good for the PC - using an analog connection (I have not tried it yet, but I would be surprised is most people who used good cables would notice the difference in a FPS over analog vs. digital).

Bill, have you determined if the 95/96 does IVTC on 1080I? I also noticed that raw panel on the 52 is rated 1500:1 CR vs 1200:1 for 40/46. Apparently this panel is not cut from the master glass. All other specs are the same (8ms g/g/ 92% gamut).

Great for HDTV (see your poll - perhaps too good), good for console games, and good for the PC - using an analog connection (I have not tried it yet, but I would be surprised is most people who used good cables would notice the difference in a FPS over analog vs. digital).


I am still completely in the dark as to why connecting the PC through a VGA (analog) port is such a big deal. Like you said, who could tell the difference anyway? I am at work right now typing on a 19" LCD that's connected through the [analog] VGA port, and it looks great. This mass-hysteria with staying "all digital" doesn't make any sense to me.


At home, I have the DSM 520 digital media player and it's connected through HDMI (which gets overscanned), and I have to say the media looks great on it.

Bill, have you determined if the 95/96 does IVTC on 1080I? I also noticed that raw panel on the 52 is rated 1500:1 CR vs 1200:1 for 40/46. Apparently this panel is not cut from the master glass. All other specs are the same (8ms g/g/ 92% gamut).
Doug - I have not yet hooked my HD-A1 up to the Sammy directly (been fighting PC issues for four days now) to test for IVTC. I'll try to get to that in the next couple of weeks. I would trust Amir on this one, though, when he says that it does do IVTC.

BTW, according to the service menu, the glass has 1300:1 CR. I wish I got something close to that post-calibration. Also, the gamut is a function of the backlight, not the panel itself.

Later,
Bill

Bill, The S-LCD site catalog has the panel and backlights as an assembly hence the Gamut spec. Interestingly the 57 is only shown with the low-gamut backlight. The highest spec'd contrast panel is the 52. Ive seen the 57 a few times at BB and had a chance to tinker with it some. It generally embarasses the nearby plasmas. Its simply way overpriced. That will change in 30 days when the 52's come in from Sharp, Sammy, and Sony at near 5K MSRP.

BTW, according to the service menu, the glass has 1300:1 CR. I wish I got something close to that post-calibration.

Bill, can't remember where, but I got really taken to task because I referred to LCD as "glass." Was told "glass" only referred to plasma and that I was supposed to refer to LCD as "panels." What's your take?

You think a pc with a graphics card like this would solve the 1 to 1 pixel mapping issue?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3705

Bill, can't remember where, but I got really taken to task because I referred to LCD as "glass." Was told "glass" only referred to plasma and that I was supposed to refer to LCD as "panels." What's your take?

Corning refers to it as LCD Glass so I think it is appropriate

http://www.corning.com/displaytechnologies/ww/en/products_applications/large_generation.aspx

In my experience, and others can confirm this, the overscan really only shows itself when feeding it a signal over HDMI from a PC video card. I was unable to recreate the overscan problem when feeding it a signal from my motorola cable box or OPPO DVD player. .


so, this overscan thing does affecct dvd players aswell?

Raven,

I just bought this tv as well and am watching your poll closely.

As for all the HTPC guys, I think the reason that you are running into DVI->HDMI issues is that DVI is setup to carry a PC signal and HDMI is fundamentally setup to carry a CE signal. I know that some people say "digital is digital", but if this is true then why does nVidia differentiate between the two? If you follow the link below(that you can find by searching this thread, btw) you will see that his card has the option to pass a 1080p 60 CE signal. Unfortunately he doesn't have the Samsung so he couldn't test it. I think this 1:1 mapping issue is going to go away soon as more OEMs come out with cards with HDMI outputs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8052921&&#post8052921


On an entirely different note, apparently Samsung is going to release LCDs with LED backlighting next month in Europe. And I just ordered the 4095D yesterday!!!! Argh!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8052921&&#post8052921

Hey all, I'm in a bit of a quandary. I bought the 4095 this past weekend and I am not at all impressed. For background purposes, I have owned a Sony A10 RPLCD (took back because of silk screen effect). And a 42PX60U Panasonic plasma (took back because I realized it didn't display all of 720P resolution and XBOX 360 video games which is impossible for a 1024X768 set). Here's the strange thing. XBOX 360 games look incredible! Much, much better than the 42 inch plasma. But HD content on my Comcast Motorolla box do not look as good as on the supposedly inferior plasma. INHD shows look soft and fuzzy (especially that poker show that was on earlier this evening). It really varies from show to show on INHD. The Sunday night Hall of Fame Game looked absolutely terrible, LOTS of noise, blurring, and macro blocking. I was looking forward to CSI Miami because it is shown in 1080i and Westa6969 is always raving about how well it looks on his 1080P Sharp LCD. It does look pretty good but again, the plasma looked just as good. Obviously, somethings wrong here. I was expecting to have a "wow" moment but so far, HD looks noisy, pixelated, soft and blurry. I also seem to be having a lot of vertical banding which varies wildly from station to station. Is everyone having a better viewing experience with their sets? Is it possible my set is a lemon? I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

:) Quoting myself. Anyway, I think the issues I am seeing may be source dependent. I downloaded the Cars and Pirates of the Caribbean 720P trailers from XBOX Live and they look phenomenal. Then I watched American Chopper on Discovery HD Channel and it looked horrendous! Soft and blurry. Could it be my cable box?

so, this overscan thing does affecct dvd players aswell?

No. Since he was unable to recreate the problem, he means that overscan is not an issue with his dvd player.

Bill, can't remember where, but I got really taken to task because I referred to LCD as "glass." Was told "glass" only referred to plasma and that I was supposed to refer to LCD as "panels." What's your take?

The lithography happens on a pure glass substrate, so anyone who does not consider it glass is either ill-informed, or is being a jerk. The question is more about how much of an assembly is built up before it stops being referred to as "the glass" and should be referred to as a complete assembly. This is mostly a semantic argument to me. I would refer to the glass panel and associated imaging circuitry as "the glass", with the backlight and signal processing circuitry as a higher-level assembly if forced to make a distinction.

Corning refers to it as LCD Glass so I think it is appropriate

http://www.corning.com/displaytechnologies/ww/en/products_applications/large_generation.aspx

Apparently the glass is so pure that they can pick up entire mother panels with a single suction cup device without fear of it breaking. And Corning is making an even bigger mint on this than they were over the fiber optic craze of the late 90s.

Later,
Bill

No. Since he was unable to recreate the problem, he means that overscan is not an issue with his dvd player.
Overscan will be present for all signals coming in via HDMI. The question is whether you notice it or not. For the vast majority of people, you will not notice it with video or other moving images. For games, you will notice it a bit due to the placement of the fixed widgets around the screen perimeter.

On an entirely different note, apparently Samsung is going to release LCDs with LED backlighting next month in Europe. And I just ordered the 4095D yesterday!!!! Argh!!!


Sony launched a Qualia 46" LED backlit 005 LCD (KDX-46Q005) using Samsung glass and it was not that great according to the reviews:

MSRP was $13,000.00: you can buy them now for half that new : since discontinued

I hope the Samsung version is better!

:) Quoting myself. Anyway, I think the issues I am seeing may be source dependent. I downloaded the Cars and Pirates of the Caribbean 720P trailers from XBOX Live and they look phenomenal. Then I watched American Chopper on Discovery HD Channel and it looked horrendous! Soft and blurry. Could it be my cable box?
How are you connecting the cable box to the TV (HDMI, component, S-video)? What picture settings are you using? How close are you sitting to the TV?

does anyone have the link of the actual manual for this tv?

The lithography happens on a pure glass substrate, so anyone who does not consider it glass is either ill-informed, or is being a jerk. Later,
Bill

I really shouldn't enjoy this stuff so much, but I can't help it. :)

:) Then I watched American Chopper on Discovery HD Channel and it looked horrendous! Soft and blurry. Could it be my cable box?

Well it's not the TV.

American Chopper is crystal clear on my 4095.

Frankly, I don't need to see dudes armpit hair THAT clearly. ;)

:) Quoting myself. Anyway, I think the issues I am seeing may be source dependent. I downloaded the Cars and Pirates of the Caribbean 720P trailers from XBOX Live and they look phenomenal. Then I watched American Chopper on Discovery HD Channel and it looked horrendous! Soft and blurry. Could it be my cable box?

Haven't seen that exact episode, but in 2 1/2 months I have not seen ANYTHING on DiscHD that was remotely "less" than fantastic.

does anyone have the link of the actual manual for this tv?
I don't think the manual for the 4095 is up, but there is a quick guide at:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200606/20060617125509656/EN/main.htm


The 5797 manual is similar and is at:
http://www.samsung.com/support/productsupport/download/FileView.aspx?cttfileid=1008364&type=TV&typecode=&subtype=LCD+TV&subtypecode=&cmssubtypecode=&model=LN-S5797D&filetype=UM&language=&LSSI=/include/SSI/us_left/LMenu_TV_LCDTV.sec&RSSI=/include/SSI/us_right/RMenu_TV.sec

How are you connecting the cable box to the TV (HDMI, component, S-video)? What picture settings are you using? How close are you sitting to the TV?
Well, I think I MAY have found the answer. My cable box was set to 720P, not 1080i. I did a little net searching and figured out how to change it, I had no idea I even could until reading in the set top box threads. This seems to have cleared the picture up but I'll have to wait until tonight to see some prime time 1080i HD. I still have vertical banding and noise so... not sure what to think just yet.

Sorry, I didn't fully answer Ryu's question. I am using component inputs to the TV, am sitting about 6-7 feet away and I am using Bear's recommended settings.

Hey all,

Been following this thread for a long time and finally decided to throw in my .02 cents.

It's been most helpful in answering most, if not all, of my questions regarding HD/1080p TVs and since I splurged on this 4095D you've answered ALL of my q's on it specifically and for that I'm most grateful. Thanks to all.

FWIW, I'm thrilled with it's performance, but for perspective my last tv was a '91 Sony 27" tube. lol.

I have 4 days before my 30 day window to return it to BB expires and I just wish I had a crystal ball to tell me whether to get the extended warranty or not.

Overscan will be present for all signals coming in via HDMI. The question is whether you notice it or not. For the vast majority of people, you will not notice it with video or other moving images. For games, you will notice it a bit due to the placement of the fixed widgets around the screen perimeter.

I've never seen any HUD elements cropped on any X-Box 360 games. Since most TVs have some slight overscan, I'm guessing console game developers anticipate that. (I can't speak to the issue in terms of PC gaming.)

Well, I think I MAY have found the answer. My cable box was set to 720P, not 1080i. I did a little net searching and figured out how to change it, I had no idea I even could until reading in the set top box threads. This seems to have cleared the picture up but I'll have to wait until tonight to see some prime time 1080i HD. I still have vertical banding and noise so... not sure what to think just yet.

If the cable box was set to 720p that could have been the problem right there as DiscHD is 1080i, so the cable box was screwing up the scaling.

If you sit close enough you'll see that HD cable isn't perfect. HD OTA isn't perfect either, but just for comparison, you might want to hook up an antenna and compare OTA primetime HD to your cable box. You might also want to try a cable box that supports HDMI.

It's also possible that your cable wiring in the house is bad. You said your 360 looks great so at least you know it's not your new TV!

If the cable box was set to 720p that could have been the problem right there as DiscHD is 1080i, so the cable box was screwing up the scaling.

HD OTA isn't perfect either, but just for comparison, you might want to hook up an antenna and compare OTA primetime HD to your cable box. You might also want to try a cable box that supports HDMI.

It's also possible that your cable wiring in the house is bad. You said your 360 looks great so at least you know it's not your new TV!
Good idea. I'll be off to get an antennae soon.

I've never seen any HUD elements cropped on any X-Box 360 games. Since most TVs have some slight overscan, I'm guessing console game developers anticipate that. (I can't speak to the issue in terms of PC gaming.)


Do you have Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter?
I think that would be the worst game if overscan was going to be a problem since the HUD almost goes to the very edge of the screen.

Anyone compared the Sammy with the new 1080p Toshiba's or JVC's? Thanks

Anyone compared the Sammy with the new 1080p Toshiba's or JVC's? Thanks

No 1080p inputs for either the JVC's or the Tosh!tbox.

Do you have Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter?
I think that would be the worst game if overscan was going to be a problem since the HUD almost goes to the very edge of the screen.

The 4095d does overscan my xbox 360. Playing ghost recon, I cant see all of the blue outline around the HUD, it's not that bad, but irks me a little.

Is there any way I can fix this? I know you can adjust overscan in the service menu, but is that even something I should bother looking into?

The 4095d does overscan my xbox 360. Playing ghost recon, I cant see all of the blue outline around the HUD, it's not that bad, but irks me a little.


Yup, I didn't even notice it when I played earlier but I checked this morning and parts of the blue outline on the bottom and sides are cut off. That part of the HUD is superfluous anyway, but I'm kind of irritated with both Samsung and Ubisoft.

digression warning:
What is really annoying in GRAW is the levels where the enemy is jamming your HUD and the developers make you play through the level with static and waves in your HUD, because as we all know, the advanced warfighting soldier of 2010 would not have the option to just move the HUD display window away from his eye. Nope, he would continue to fight on with a useless HUD that causes headaches. :rolleyes:

No 1080p inputs for either the JVC's or the Tosh!tbox.

Stuka, have you settled on a new panel or are you still shopping?

Does anyone know (or guess) when the 46" 4695D will hit the stores?

I know you can adjust overscan in the service menu

Where??!!?!?

Does anyone know (or guess) when the 46" 4695D will hit the stores?

8/18 - Just a guess though :D

Seriously, I would love to hear something official. A Best Buy told me 8/18 on the 4696, but said they would not have any at their store until Oct. That did not make sense. Ultimate Electronics told me they showed the 95, but did not have a date. Any 95 or 96 46" availability info would be greatly appreciated.

Where??!!?!?

I apologize Bear. I don't know that for certain. BUT the reason I assumed this is that I went to the samsung website and looked up the FAQ for this TV and there is a question that says "i have overscan, how do i adjust it" or somthing to that effect. The answer is that the TV needs service, which implies that a service technician can fix it through the service menu.

Well, I think I MAY have found the answer. My cable box was set to 720P, not 1080i. I did a little net searching and figured out how to change it, I had no idea I even could until reading in the set top box threads. This seems to have cleared the picture up...

Thx kahuna, I had no idea either. While mine was set to 1080i, I noticed the 4:3 Override was off, switching it to stretch mode eliminated the black columns on either side of SD channels for me.

I just saw the 4095 running the stopwatch segment of Samsung's Blu-ray disc and for the first time I understand why 1080P LCDs are going to dominate the flat panel market. The clarity of those gears rotating back and forth was truly deserving of the term "film-like". I must admit I wasn't all that impressed the first time I saw the 4095 back when it was playing "50 First Dates" but this stopwatch segment turned me around 180 degrees.

Ironically I did go over to the dark side by pre-ordering the Sony 40V2500 however I only did that because of the potential to input a PC signal over HDMI at 1920x1080 with no overscan. For those who don't care about PC nirvana I think you made a great choice with the 4095. It's the first LCD-TV capable of eliciting the much talked about but rarely experienced "wow" factor.

Does anyone know (or guess) when the 46" 4695D will hit the stores?

Three sets were available (ebay/Datavision) a couple weeks ago. Long since gone. Another ebay seller currently shows two samsung lns4695d. Item #330016971137

Greetings everyone, I just picked up the 4095 from Best Buy after looking around for quite some time. It seems as if most are extremely pleased with the tv so far...from those of you that have it what are your impressions of it in terms of displaying DVD, SD and HD tv, and video games.

Also in regards to the overscaning issue, I am having Best Buy install it and they are going to professionally calibrate it for me...will they be able to fix overscaning at that time, or is it something I will just have to live with

Thanks for helping

Thx kahuna, I had no idea either. While mine was set to 1080i, I noticed the 4:3 Override was off, switching it to stretch mode eliminated the black columns on either side of SD channels for me.

But now you are watching SD channels all stretched out with fat faces, etc. What input are you using to connect the cable box? HDMI? Component? Doesn't the tv allow you to do a "smart stretch/wide full" or something like that of the SD channels (when they are set to 480i) so that the faces are not fat (stretch less in center and more at edges)?

BTW, various owners of Sony xbr2 (separate thread) report 1:1 over hdmi with numerous pc configurations. I feel overscan is the most material issue with the 95's and 96's. They're beautiful sets, but Samsung really shot themselves in the foot, here.

Ironically I did go over to the dark side by pre-ordering the Sony 40V2500 however I only did that because of the potential to input a PC signal over HDMI at 1920x1080 with no overscan. For those who don't care about PC nirvana I think you made a great choice with the 4095. It's the first LCD-TV capable of eliciting the much talked about but rarely experienced "wow" factor.

Hey, you're not going to the dark side - these panels are all part of the same family - cousins at least. In your case it makes sense to hold out for the PC connectivity you need.

How much longer can I hold out on the HD DVD player with reviews like this? I see the potential of this thing for HD DVD and regular DVDs are not quite cutting it.

I apologize Bear. I don't know that for certain. BUT the reason I assumed this is that I went to the samsung website and looked up the FAQ for this TV and there is a question that says "i have overscan, how do i adjust it" or somthing to that effect. The answer is that the TV needs service, which implies that a service technician can fix it through the service menu.
No problem. I'll keep plugging away at it. Maybe I can convince the folks at Samsung to ship a firmware update for the set. Service should be trivial over the USB port.

My 4095D arrived last night from DataVision and I connected it to my SA8300 over component. Channels like DSC-HD, CBS which are broadcast in 1080i look fantastic, but frankly I am disappointed at the SD. Now I must say that the SA8300 is set to 1080i right now which means that I am relying on the scaler in the cable box vs. the scalar in the 4095D. I tried following the steps in the SA83000 user guide to set the box to pass through the native signal of the channel, but couldn't get to the setup screen. I called TWC cable, but because of bad storms here in Charlotte I was on hold for 30 minutes and hung up. I will try again today.

I don't understand why SD would look so bad on an LCD. I am moving from a 32" CRT so it isn't an issue of a bigger screen exposing the warts because 4:3 on a 40" LCD is almost exactly 32". Ryu stated that the 4095D would "blow away" my $250 CRT, but that is far from the case so far.

If you read some of my posts I was debating between the NEC 42XR plasma and the Samsung 4095D. Basically it was a battle between the great scalar in the NEC vs. no glare on the 4095D LCD. The no glare of the LCD won because of the WAF(wife acceptance factor), but unless I can improve the quality of SD on my 4095D, I will be very disappointed.

Also, I want to discuss the issue of blurring and ghosting. When I watch fast moving scenes I do not see ghosting, or a trail, of where the object used to be, but the object itself appears to lose focus until it stops moving. Last night I watched a few minutes of the Colts game and noticed that the numbers on the players jerseys are clear in the huddle, but not clear when they are running down the field. Once the play ended the jerseys were clear again. Anyone else notice this behavior?

LCD1080,

I was also wowed by that watch scene at Best Buy, but in retrospect that scene plays to the strengths of the 4095D. The source is 1080p and it is slow moving.

I haven't given up on the 4095D yet, but if I can't improve the viewing thorugh various tweaks to the set top box and the 4095D itself, I may have to take a sizeable loss and return this unit.

Oh I am at the office, but I think my settings are as follows.

Backlight is set to medium
Contrast is 100
Brightness is around 35
Based on Bear's recommendation I set it to Warm1

Any ideas?

Three sets were available (ebay/Datavision) a couple weeks ago. Long since gone. Another ebay seller currently shows two samsung lns4695d. Item #330016971137
Datavision did not actually have stock for the 4695.

Also, I want to discuss the issue of blurring and ghosting. When I watch fast moving scenes I do not see ghosting, or a trail, of where the object used to be, but the object itself appears to lose focus until it stops moving. Last night I watched a few minutes of the Colts game and noticed that the numbers on the players jerseys are clear in the huddle, but not clear when they are running down the field. Once the play ended the jerseys were clear again. Anyone else notice this behavior?

This sounds like the typical MPEG-2 fast motion artifacts. Diving and gymnastics at the Olympics really highlights this due to the spinning motion when athletes are somersaulting. One thing you have to be aware of: LCD will not hide any faults in the source material.

Oh, yeah, for those not calibrating their display fully, Warm2 is the recommended setting.

Later,
Bill

this is the million $ (or at least 1K $) question for me. In regards to the experience sited above by mfogarty do you think a plasma(say 4273) would perform better? I am OK to go with a plasma even with a lower resolution(1024x768) if it displays fast moving scenes better. afterall it would be embarassing not shouting the right name...GO GO go who??? silly to wait for madden to tell us who had the ball.

This sounds like the typical MPEG-2 fast motion artifacts. Diving and gymnastics at the Olympics really highlights this due to the spinning motion when athletes are somersaulting. One thing you have to be aware of: LCD will not hide any faults in the source material.

Oh, yeah, for those not calibrating their display fully, Warm2 is the recommended setting.

Later,
Bill

The seller on Ebay is "2nd act." Anyone ever used them? Nice price, but is there an issue if the seller is not a Samsung authorized dealer? I have no idea if 2nd act is or not.

this is the million $ (or at least 1K $) question for me. In regards to the experience sited above by mfogarty do you think a plasma(say 4273) would perform better? I am OK to go with a plasma even with a lower resolution(1024x768) if it displays fast moving scenes better. afterall it would be embarassing not shouting the right name...GO GO go who??? silly to wait for madden to tell us who had the ball.
I hate to say it but I am in the same situation as mfogarty5. After clearing up the image with my cable box, HD looks great but I am still having major issues with SD, blurring and banding.

this is the million $ (or at least 1K $) question for me. In regards to the experience sited above by mfogarty do you think a plasma(say 4273) would perform better? I am OK to go with a plasma even with a lower resolution(1024x768) if it displays fast moving scenes better. afterall it would be embarassing not shouting the right name...GO GO go who??? silly to wait for madden to tell us who had the ball.
I hate MPEG-2 motion artifacts, but it is in the source material, not the panel. So far, I have not seen anything artifact-related that is attributable to the panel. Others may have other experiences.

Dumb question guys, but aren't pretty much all the sports programs in HD via direct tv or otherwise?

The seller on Ebay is "2nd act." Anyone ever used them? Nice price, but is there an issue if the seller is not a Samsung authorized dealer? I have no idea if 2nd act is or not.

I see them many times on searches on epinions. Be informed though that as the name indicates the stuff you get is refurbished/used/2nd-hand.
Since I desist from using used-stuff I have never used these folks.

The ad for this particular unit says it's in the box and unopened. Dunno

The ad for this particular unit says it's in the box and unopened. Dunno

DallasJoe,

Datavision also sells on eBay and they are an authorized dealer. That's who I purchased my 4095D from.

I hate MPEG-2 motion artifacts, but it is in the source material, not the panel. So far, I have not seen anything artifact-related that is attributable to the panel. Others may have other experiences.

Bear,

I am not sure that I agree with you on this. When I was in Best Buy and comparing LCDs and Plasmas, in every scene with movement the plasma was clearer than the LCD. There is a scene for some new Fox show with a moving van driving down the street. The plasma was always clearer than the LCD. Watching the NBC NFL preview I saw the same thing. Unfortunately, I couldn't watch those particular scenes on the 4095D because it was on a separate Blu-Ray stand. When I watched fast Blu-Ray movie scenes on the 4095D I did not see any blurring so I thought that the new Samsung had resolved this LCD limitation.

Like I said, I went with LCD because we have bad glare on our CRT, but unless I get these issues fixed I am taking the loss and returning this tv. I mean SD looks like a bad VCR tape right now.

Bear,

I am not sure that I agree with you on this. When I was in Best Buy and comparing LCDs and Plasmas, in every scene with movement the plasma was clearer than the LCD. There is a scene for some new Fox show with a moving van driving down the street. The plasma was always clearer than the LCD. Watching the NBC NFL preview I saw the same thing. Unfortunately, I couldn't watch those particular scenes on the 4095D because it was on a separate Blu-Ray stand. When I watched fast Blu-Ray movie scenes on the 4095D I did not see any blurring so I thought that the new Samsung had resolved this LCD limitation.

You can't trust an in store comparison of sets. The feed can affect what you see on the screen. They end up splitting the singal so many times that depending on where you are on the chain the picture can look visibly worse due to the wiring.

Like I said, I went with LCD because we have bad glare on our CRT, but unless I get these issues fixed I am taking the loss and returning this tv. I mean SD looks like a bad VCR tape right now.

What are you using to feed the SD signal to the TV? The quality of the source can definately affect the PQ. There are issues with video scaling when done with the TV or source ect... I'd try multiple sources before you give up.

Regards,

Mike

Thanks, I will take a look, but I'm waiting for the 46"

I don't know if they have that.

Panama I disagree respectufully. mfogarty compared apples to apples in a store and that counts. If the signal or source was bad then it was bad for both ! (unless further information is available). And this JUST in...just when I thought LCD is what I wanted... :rolleyes: Back to more decision making...the wait for these snazzy HDTVs is killing me...

You can't trust an in store comparison of sets. The feed can affect what you see on the screen. They end up splitting the singal so many times that depending on where you are on the chain the picture can look visibly worse due to the wiring.


What are you using to feed the SD signal to the TV? The quality of the source can definately affect the PQ. There are issues with video scaling when done with the TV or source ect... I'd try multiple sources before you give up.

Regards,

Mike

Dumb question guys, but aren't pretty much all the sports programs in HD via direct tv or otherwise?

No they are not. It depends on a lot of factors. I have DirecTV and the NFL will be showing some of their games in HD. You can find the schedule on DirecTV or the NFL Network websites, according to what I recall 110 games this season will be in HD. As I am a currently a suffering Bills fan I doubt many of our games will be on that list.

Also as of this time DirecTV doesn't provide me locals on HD so any sports I see there will be SD (at least for the next few months until they upgrade). And before anyone offers I am too far from any broadcast towers to pick up anything OTA.

I also watch a lot of NHL and I don't believe any of their broadcasts, or very few are HD. Although I may be wrong on this.

As for other sports I can't comment.

Stuka, have you settled on a new panel or are you still shopping?

Probably the SONY XBR3, since it can do DVI to HDMI PC with no overscan.

You can't trust an in store comparison of sets. The feed can affect what you see on the screen. They end up splitting the singal so many times that depending on where you are on the chain the picture can look visibly worse due to the wiring.

Panama Mike,

bleary is correct. I viewed a Westy LCD, a Sony LCD and a Samsung Plasma side by side so any degradation in signal would have affected all 3. The Westy was just plain awful. I don't see how anyone other than gamers could watch it. There was a scene with a band in the background and a crowd in the foreground and the Westy showed the crowd as one giant dark spot while the Sony LCD and Samsung plasma showed each individual in the crowd.

As for blurring, the Sony LCD was never quite as clear as the Samsung plasma in action shots which is why I literally spent hours watching the Samsung 4095d over multiple visits. The Samsung 4095D is current generation and the Sony was a prior generation so since I didn't see any blurring on Blu-Ray I thought that the current generation fixed the issue. I haven't given up hope. I plan on watching the CBS HD NFL game tonight to do more research.


What are you using to feed the SD signal to the TV? The quality of the source can definately affect the PQ. There are issues with video scaling when done with the TV or source ect... I'd try multiple sources before you give up.

I am feeding the Samsung 1080i over component from a Scientific Atlanta 8300 set top box. Like I said, Discovery HD look great, but SD and fast action HD is not up to par yet.

Let me phrase it another way. The high of HD on the Samsung 4095D does not make up for the low of SD at this point. Unless I get these issues resolved I would rather watch SD on a $250 32" sylvania crt that I bought as a stop gap 3 years ago.

I hate MPEG-2 motion artifacts, but it is in the source material, not the panel. So far, I have not seen anything artifact-related that is attributable to the panel. Others may have other experiences.

I'd second that. My 36" HD CRT may hide the flaws of SD better than my 4095 because it's lower resolution but they are still there.

For me, the highs of HD outweigh the lows of SD with the 4095. mfogarty, i'm sorry you are disappointed. i don't know anything about the NEC scalar. other plasmas may hide flaws of SD better due to lower resolution but i think you'll find that any motion artifact you see on the 4095 you'll see on a plasma (unless this NEC is really something special - I don't know). one thing I do know is plasmas aren't going to solve your glare/reflections problem. as I said, i bought the 4095 for Xbox 360, HD cable, DVD and hopefully HD DVD soon. With reflections and glare factored in, I think it is better at SD than my HD CRT due to improved contrast and lack of glare but if you are sitting too close SD is not pretty.

this might sound stupid to some but mfogarty, you might want to try an s-video cable out of the cable box for SD. it does soften the picture and may be an improvement to your eyes. i use it so i can zoom letterboxed SD but i watch 4:3 SD via HDMI.

mfogarty - before you flame me please know i didn't see your most recent post until after sent my post.

you are entitled to your opinion and it's your money so do what you want. i'm just throwing in my two cents.

Probably the SONY XBR3, since it can do DVI to HDMI PC with no overscan.
nice choice. i'll look for your impressions over on the XBR thread when you get it.

mfogarty - before you flame me please know i didn't see your most recent post until after sent my post.

you are entitled to your opinion and it's your money so do what you want. i'm just throwing in my two cents.

No problem. We are all here to exchange our thoughts on these Samsung LCDs whether they are good or bad. :)

I have learned a great deal on these forums and I am just sharing my initial observations about this set with others.

Let me be clear. I REALLY want to make the 4095D work. I'm hoping that it just requires a few tweaks.

BTW, the people in the NEC forum say that the scaler in the NEC plasma is better than external scalers like Lumagen.

Let me also say to others that you are correct about the glare. It was a huge issue for our CRT. In fact while I think the SD CRT is better, my wife actually prefers the 4095, eventhough it is softer, because it has no glare. She really disliked the glare of a CRT. She actually couldn't put her finger on it until we were at Best Buy and she saw the reflection of the overhead lamps quite clearly on the Pioneer plasma.

Probably the SONY XBR3, since it can do DVI to HDMI PC with no overscan.I haven't seen any discounts on the XBR3. The XBR2 and V2500 have some very good discounts and might be a better deal?

No problem. We are all here to exchange our thoughts on these Samsung LCDs whether they are good or bad. :)

I have learned a great deal on these forums and I am just sharing my initial observations about this set with others.

Let me be clear. I REALLY want to make the 4095D work. I'm hoping that it just requires a few tweaks.

BTW, the people in the NEC forum say that the scaler in the NEC plasma is better than external scalers like Lumagen.

Let me also say to others that you are correct about the glare. It was a huge issue for our CRT. In fact while I think the SD CRT is better, my wife actually prefers the 4095, eventhough it is softer, because it has no glare. She really disliked the glare of a CRT. She actually couldn't put her finger on it until we were at Best Buy and she saw the reflection of the overhead lamps quite clearly on the Pioneer plasma.


thanks for being cool :cool: about it.

i have a different cable box (the Comcast Motorolla DVR with HDMI), so that may make a difference as well.

if you have a chance, try SD via antenna for comparison and try using the S-video cable and/or adjusting the settings on your cable box like you said so you can put the 4095's scalar to work. you can also try splitting your cable and running the coax cable in directly to the TV, although you won't get the digital channels that way. good luck. :)

Panama Mike,

bleary is correct. I viewed a Westy LCD, a Sony LCD and a Samsung Plasma side by side so any degradation in signal would have affected all 3. The Westy was just plain awful. I don't see how anyone other than gamers could watch it. There was a scene with a band in the background and a crowd in the foreground and the Westy showed the crowd as one giant dark spot while the Sony LCD and Samsung plasma showed each individual in the crowd.

As for blurring, the Sony LCD was never quite as clear as the Samsung plasma in action shots which is why I literally spent hours watching the Samsung 4095d over multiple visits. The Samsung 4095D is current generation and the Sony was a prior generation so since I didn't see any blurring on Blu-Ray I thought that the current generation fixed the issue. I haven't given up hope. I plan on watching the CBS HD NFL game tonight to do more research.


I disagree. Doesn't matter if they are side by side. Depends on how they are hooked up.


I am feeding the Samsung 1080i over component from a Scientific Atlanta 8300 set top box. Like I said, Discovery HD look great, but SD and fast action HD is not up to par yet.

Let me phrase it another way. The high of HD on the Samsung 4095D does not make up for the low of SD at this point. Unless I get these issues resolved I would rather watch SD on a $250 32" sylvania crt that I bought as a stop gap 3 years ago.

Maybe the problem is with your
SA 8300 check out this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7304843&highlight=artifacts#post7304843) .

Would a seperate upconverter help with the SD picture?

I am feeding the Samsung 1080i over component from a Scientific Atlanta 8300 set top box. Like I said, Discovery HD look great, but SD and fast action HD is not up to par yet.

mfogarty5

Try switching your SA 8300 to output the native resolution of the braodcast so that you can put the Samsung's scaler to work. I would really like to hear your impressions with this setup.

Though, from what I can see now from both this thread and the XBR thread, I think it may be the XBR for me.

Ok, I've actually read through this entire thread over the past few hours. Yes, I had a lot of time.

Just to clarify - from my understanding we don't really know whether the 4696 has 1:1 pixel mapping - correct? We seem to know the 40" doesn't seem to have it, at least that's my take (I'll admit that after 66 pages things start to get a little fuzzy).

Thanks!

...from my understanding we don't really know whether the 4696 has 1:1 pixel mapping - correct? We seem to know the 40" doesn't seem to have it, at least that's my take.Right the 40" doesn't provide for 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. I'm 90% certain that the 4696 doesn't either. Samsung's philosophy appears to be that HDMI inputs are for television signals not PCs. If that's true for the 40" it should be at least as much so for the 46.

I haven't seen any discounts on the XBR3. The XBR2 and V2500 have some very good discounts and might be a better deal?

DtV city is doing preorders on xbr3, but they're being vague and inconsistent on information regards availability date. I think that's because they won't be getting these sets till half a year after release due to Sony's intention to avail these sets initially only to high end video stores. In light of this, any discount they offer is meaningless if they can't get the set. Even Tapeworks Texas will not have access to xbr3, which to me lends credibility to the exclusive marketing rumors circulating around this set.................This marketing mentality is similar to Samsung's in that 96's tend to be carried by higher end dealers that 95's (in general).

Would a seperate upconverter help with the SD picture?
That depends upon which you choose. I consider the Lumagen Vision HDP to be a great value at ~$1k -- especially if you are using HD source material. At a bit less than $2k, the DVDO VP30 with the ABT102 daughtercard will make SD video look about as good as it can, though it is not very good with HD.

[QUOTE= from my understanding we don't really know whether the 4696 has 1:1 pixel mapping - correct?[/QUOTE]

With 95's and 96's all under the same service manual, we can say with 100% certainty that none of these Samsungs support 1:1 over hdmi this time around. I wish I had a speck of the faith some people have.

With 95's and 96's all under the same service manual, we can say with 100% certainty that none of these Samsungs support 1:1 over hdmi this time around. I wish I had a speck of the faith some people have.


That's just plain sad. Guess no to sammy.

Mike

That depends upon which you choose. I consider the Lumagen Vision HDP to be a great value at ~$1k -- especially if you are using HD source material. At a bit less than $2k, the DVDO VP30 with the ABT102 daughtercard will make SD video look about as good as it can, though it is not very good with HD.

So it's not very good at upconverting non-1080p HD source material to 1080P? If that's what you are saying, I assume the upconversion is better then the mere HD source. Right?

Thanks

So it's not very good at upconverting non-1080p HD source material to 1080P? If that's what you are saying, I assume the upconversion is better then the mere HD source. Right?

Thanks

If a sources signal is in 1080p it doesn't require up converting for a 1080p panel. If one uses something like lumagen to do scaling outboard and feeds the panel natively it should provide the best possible picture the lumagen can provide.

Unfortunately, it appears that the Sammy set doesn't allow for an outboard scaler to be used at it's highest potential. Since the Sammy doesn't allow for 1 to 1 pixel mapping, this indicates the set will somehow manipulate or scale all video signals comming in via HDMI. As a result, you can't escape the internal scalar, which apparently isn't all that great.

Regards,

Mike

can someone explain what 1:1 pixel mapping is and why it's important to have? i'm considering the samsung 95/96 series and also the xbr2/3...i heard that the xbr2 does 1:1 mapping.

thanks!

If a sources signal is in 1080p it doesn't require up converting for a 1080p panel. If one uses something like lumagen to do scaling outboard and feeds the panel natively it should provide the best possible picture the lumagen can provide.

Unfortunately, it appears that the Sammy set doesn't allow for an outboard scaler to be used at it's highest potential. Since the Sammy doesn't allow for 1 to 1 pixel mapping, this indicates the set will somehow manipulate or scale all video signals comming in via HDMI. As a result, you can't escape the internal scalar, which apparently isn't all that great.

Regards,

Mike
I would guess that the deinterlacer is more suspect than the scaler itself. However, you are correct in that the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping does hinder how much use I get out of my outboard processor (Lumagen HDQ, btw).

Bill

Ok,

We had company over yesterday for the Panthers game so I couldn't do any tweaking on my 4095D.

I have been playing around with it today and did figure out how to let the set top box pass through the native signal. The problem is that SD still looks terrible to me. My wife doesn't think it looks that bad, but I split the signal and then compared the 4095D to my SD CRT side by side while watching golf this afternoon. I thought the CRT had a much clearer picture. For me, the best way to describe SD on this set is like watching a VCR tape that has been stetched to record 6 hours. I think the reason for this is that the jump from 640x480 SD to the panel's resolution of 1920x1080 is simply too much for the Samsung(and possibly any 1080p LCD) to handle.

I won't rule out the possibility that I have setup something incorrectly, but the 1080i channels like Discovery and InHD look fantastic. We watched Pee Wee's Big Adventure on HDNet last night and our guests remarked at how good the picture looked.

On a side note, one of the hesitations I had about the move to HD is that I had to leave my rock solid TiVo for a Time Warner DVR. Boy have my fears been confirmed. When I tried to watch 2 programs that I had recorded the night before, they appeared in the list, but there was no content! Also, the audio levels on the DVR are a joke. I can't even hear dialogue, but background music on the same shows damn near deafens me. This is definitely a DVR issue because I plugged the audio from the DVR into a receiver that has never had any issues. I also had the problem 2 years ago when I first tried digital cable. I promptly went back to analog and may do so again. There is a reason they are only $6.50 a month folks!

It is important to note that I have gotten PMs from people that are having the same issues as me. I feel that the purpose of these forums is to discuss our good and bad experiences, not just to be fanboys. I understand that there are many enthusiasts here, but I think that tvs should be judged on SD and HD and not just on whether you can see a few pixels on CSI Miami from 6 inches away that you couldn't see with your 720p tv.

I apologize if I have offended any owners with my comments, but there are many people lurking here who are trying to decide whether or not to get this tv, or any hdtv for that matter, and I am just trying to provide a honest opinion.

I am beginning to think that a 42" plasma with a resolution of 1024x720 is the way to go until most programming is HD. This is because they have double the pixels of SD, but upscaling SD shouldn't be as much of a problem.

If anyone has any suggestions on improving the quality of SD on this tv, short of buying an external processor, please let me know.

If you have a display that has a native resolution of 1920x1080 and you have a nice graphics card in your PC that can output 1920x1080, then you want every one of those pixels to appear fully formed, unscaled and uncropped on the screen.

can someone explain what 1:1 pixel mapping is and why it's important to have? i'm considering the samsung 95/96 series and also the xbr2/3...i heard that the xbr2 does 1:1 mapping.

thanks!

Has anyone figured out it if it is possible at all to get 1366x768 output from a PC to these TVs with the HDMI input and not using the VGA adapter (since the ln-s3251d doesn't have a DVI interface)?


I have a Mac Mini with DVI out, and am trying to get a digital output, if that would be possible. Currently the best I can do is the DVI>VGA and output a res of 1360x768 through the analog cable. This also creates a slight underscan on the sides by 6 pixels. Is it possible by tweaking DisplayConfigX?



Thanks!

Has anyone figured out it if it is possible at all to get 1366x768 output from a PC to these TVs with the HDMI input and not using the VGA adapter (since the ln-s3251d doesn't have a DVI interface)?


I have a Mac Mini with DVI out, and am trying to get a digital output, if that would be possible. Currently the best I can do is the DVI>VGA and output a res of 1360x768 through the analog cable. This also creates a slight underscan on the sides by 6 pixels. Is it possible by tweaking DisplayConfigX?



Thanks!
The "native res" for PC signals for the 768p units is 1360x768. You just don't get the additional six pixels. So that you aren't too put off by this, having the native resolution differ from the spec like this is pretty common on both LCDs and plasmas.

Thanks, mfogarty5.

Your frank observations and insights are very much appreciated. I, like many people here, have some reservation about SD on this set. It’s great that you were able to do a side-by-side comparison with your old CRT. That’s exactly what I needed to hear as I’ll be upgrading from my 36 inch XBR400.

Based on what I’m seeing on the Sony XBR2 thread regarding SD on it, it sounds like neither set is quite up to the task of SD – though it does seem to vary depending on the person. Though, most of the reports appear to be negative on the SD PQ on the XBR2.

I do have one question regarding how you’re watching your SD programming. Are you using one of the stretch modes or are you keeping it the normal aspect ratio and viewing it with the black columns on each side of the picture?

Once again, thanks for your observations.

Cheers.

hey guys the manual is available for the 4696!

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/LNS4696DXXAA.asp (4696 Manual)

hope that means it coming out SOON!

has there been any pro review of the 4095 yet. also is this confirmed that this set can take vga at 1920.

At a bit less than $2k, the DVDO VP30 with the ABT102 daughtercard will make SD video look about as good as it can, though it is not very good with HD.

I was thinking of getting one of these, but as I read some threads here about it, it sounded like the user needed to be fairly steeped in troubleshooting and keeping the firmware updated.

I think the reason for this is that the jump from 640x480 SD to the panel's resolution of 1920x1080 is simply too much for the Samsung(and possibly any 1080p LCD) to handle.



I would be the first one to moan about SD if I was having a bad experience, but the 4095 is fine to my eyes.

That said, I long ago made the jump from CRT to plasma, so I already made the sour adjustment to SD on a HDTV.

So the 4095 is better than my old plasma, but if I ran a CRT side-by-side like you have, I'm sure the 4095 looks worse than the CRT.

But this is all fairly irrelevant IMO. Sure it's a bummer when the game you want to watch is only in SD, however the upside to the whole world of HD so overwhelms those periodic episodes.

this might sound stupid to some but mfogarty, you might want to try an s-video cable out of the cable box for SD.

So one can use S-Video for SD, and then flip to HDMI for the HD broadcasts?

Sounds interesting.

Ok,I have been playing around with it today and did figure out how to let the set top box pass through the native signal.

Hi mfogarty:

Can you please tell me how you did this? Are you using TWC SA8300HD DVR? That's what I have from TWC (and the DVR here is only $4.95 and I have had no problems with it so I think you may want to call TWC about those audio problems).

Anyway could you please share your settings on how to pass through the native signal?

Thanks,
Jared

So one can use S-Video for SD, and then flip to HDMI for the HD broadcasts?

Sounds interesting.

I do use HDMI for SD when it's full 4:3 aspect ratio, but what drove me to using S-video was that I got hooked on Deadwood on HBO (which looks so nice in HD). Anyway, the old season 3 episodes were all on HBO on-demand (Comcast), but they were in *letterboxed* 4:3 SD (so I get the dreaded four sides of black bars if I use HDMI). But the picture size zoom 1 function on s-video input allows you to make the letterboxed 4:3 fill the screen without cropping or distortion, and it's not too bad.

Is all SD equal? I can't help but think that the disparity in owners' impressions of SD could be accounted for by:
-quality of DVR/set-top box
-compression schemes used by your local cable company.

One of my friends works in tv and the local cable company changed the way their local news show was being compressed and fed into the cable system so it looked like crap; they complained enough and the cable company changed it back to the old compression scheme so now it's better. Don't press me on the technical details as it's way beyond my comprehension.

Anyway, point being that I know cable companies are pressed for bandwith and use different equipment. Do some compress more than others or use inferior equipment and could that explain contrasting impressions of SD?

But the picture size zoom 1 function on s-video input allows you to make the letterboxed 4:3 fill the screen without cropping or distortion, and it's not too bad.

Oh, I get it now. :)

As for this whole SD debate....

It seems to me that those who are leaving CRT for the first time have the highest sensitivity to SD degradation. I don't blame them, I had the same problem 5 years ago when I went plasma.

Add on top of that the fact that these 1080p sets made HD look so fantastic, that just makes the SD channels look worse in comparison.

Hey, thanks for the settings advice. I'm now using Energy Saver on the Low setting. Medium is a little too dark for me. Contrast is at 95, Brightness at 30, and Color at 60.

With the Energy Saver off, the set is mega bright. Those cold cathodes really pump out some power.

Gone are the days of dull and dim LCD, that's for sure.

Ahhhh Monday..... missing my boob tube already. ;)

Heck, I can even enjoy watching my Yankees loose on that thing. :D

If anyone has any suggestions on improving the quality of SD on this tv, short of buying an external processor, please let me know.

No need to apologize for airing any complaints or trying to work out the issues you are experiencing.

When you get a chance, try, for sake of comparison:

-feed cableTV into back of tv via coax so you can view cable tv without your SA box.
-480i DVD
-connect your old Tivo and play something SD stored on there.

These comparisons would help you to isolate whether the issue is your new DVR and/or the quality of the cable signal in your area.

Also, any chance the cable wiring in your home could be the culprit?

also is this confirmed that this set can take vga at 1920.
i did 1920 via VGA with my PowerBook G4 (I wrote a post on it earlier) and a few other people have confirmed as well.

Ahhhh Monday..... missing my boob tube already. ;)Good thing you didn't wait for the 4096 Cocteau, I just saw one e-tailer with expected date of Sept 22 for that model!

Good thing you didn't wait for the 4096 Cocteau, I just saw one e-tailer with expected date of Sept 22 for that model!

Oh man, that really is delayed, and all because of the darn cable card...

My kids came back to NYC last week. The Mrs. needed a break from country living, so they came back for a week.

Anyhow, the kids love the set, and the Mrs. really approves. I wasn't sure she'd care or notice the picture quality uptick much. However, I put the plassy up at the cabin, and she said there's a huge differance.

The lack of glare and the higher brightness and color saturation were her high points.

Man, I played the origional Dr. Suess The Lorax upconverted to 1080i for the kids. It looked great. I dumped on color, and the edges to the drawings were very sharp. :)

I feel spoiled, but I do appreciate the technology, plus I threw in the sweat equity of the installation.

hey guys the manual is available for the 4696!

hope that means it coming out SOON!

Crutchfield is showing ... "Expected: 9/22/2006"

Someone PM'd me with a special request for Ryu in DOA4 from 2 feet away.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9269/dsc00598nl6.jpg

Crutchfield is showing ... "Expected: 9/22/2006"


I called Samsung to see when the 4696 and 4695 will be shipping. The person I talked to said that they've started to send them out but it can take up to 3 weeks to be at the store for sale. Don't know for sure if he knew what he was talking about, sure hope 9/22 is not the correct date.

thanks Ryu so this confirms this 1:1 map. over vga. Sorry I did not catch that a few post back. I am trying to debate between the 4695 or the sony 462500 set. which is not out yet. however I LOVE the styling on the sammys.

from what I gather, these sets are pretty much the same panel. 4095 and the new sony xbrs all samsung panels. its just a matter of which set handles SD better at this point and after I read the whole sony thread, I realized that their new processing is pretty much useless.

As has been already noted, the LN-S4696D manual is available online. One page that is most useful is page 5 that shows a simple diagram of all connections. (page 7 in the PDF)


Samsung LN-S4696D manual:
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200608/20060812103314890_BN68-01047F-00.pdf

I certainly would not blame the panel for the compressed artifacts. My Sharp 45" is a native 1080 panel that does not take 1080P input but it's amazing with 1080i and I experience none of the events you report which appear to be source not the TV as my Sharp is from Nov 2005 and with good feed I can get within inches before seeing any pixeling - especially when using dot-by-dot view mode. I favor these Samsungs each time I see them but find a 40" too small for HT immersiveness and my 45" comes in so clear at 8.5' I'll be upgrading to larger soon - so what the hell is wrong with 1080i?

I don't understand folks bitching about 1080i as it's fantastic on my panel and some shows I cannot imagine full 1080P being much better. The only crap HD I get are the FAKE Sport HD like some of the Golf but anyone having these panels for any amount of time know how to differentiate those factors as sports in 1080i using full HD cameras are an amazing experience ande I sure the hell wouldn't trade that experience as 1080i sports is a you are there experience NOW - not 2-3 years from now. All one has to do is switch the channel to something like NASCAR and I was never a fan of NASCAR but hell it sure the hell looks great in wide screen HD, as does CSI Miami, Leno, Letterman, PBS HD, Discovery HD, INHD et al - why would I wait for more? Yes, I want more but why wait?

Every Sporting Event I've seen in HD 16:9 has been a totally new experience - in fact in some cases you can see the plays developing in ways weren't possible before. Before going with my LCD's I owned a Sony 36" CRT DV and damn I miss nothing about that TV as it was something you looked at but did not experience like these panels in 1080i(Rodney Dangerfield of Display Mode).

My source is Comcast HD STB Cable and HD DVD and I don't have artifacts or motion blurr but realize HD Broadcasts from time to time has hiccups via the nature of it but 99.999% of the time my HD whether it be HD Channels or HD DVD is crystal clear and sure the hell don't need to wait for a few years for anything. Outside SD Turdvision my viewing is an "EXPERIENCE" I wouldn't trade for waiting period as I've also owned an SXRD that was kick ass WoW in the sweet spot with HD. I assert it's not the TV but YOUR Source.

Ahhh NFL and NCAA Football in 1080i HEAVEN coming to a panel near us Soon and Bowl Games , and Movies in HD and HD DVD presenting standard DVD's like they are HD - need I present more content evidence? . . . :cool:

I agree with everything you said, just make sure DNIe is off. I moved up from a Sammy 26 inch HD-CRT, and there is no comparison at any level - this set is amazing.

Sunday Night Football on NBC in 1080i looks so much better than Monday Night Football does on ESPN HD 720p. But by far the best test to prove this TV's worth is anything on Discovery HD, especially Sunrise Earth - holy sh*t...