With all the 1080P hype, the fact of the matter is that other then HD DVDs, there WON'T be 1080P broadcast or cable TV in the set you buys lifetime, if EVER. The cable companies are looking for ways to CUT the bandwidth, NOT increase it. As for OTAHD, the government isn't going to allow anymore bandwidth per channel, so unless there is some really new technology coming, it doesn't matter.

Now, as to HD DVDs. The reason that some HD DVDs look so bad, it's because the original film source is the limiting factor. While some of the newer film stock used today on sitcoms are much better, I don't think you could tell the difference if I ran an HD-DVD on a 720P Panny plasma and a 1080P Sony.....in fact I'm certain. :)

btw- that opinion is based on the fact that 4 different people couldn't tell the 720P Panny from the new 1080P Panny plasma with the same HD DVD source.

For movies on HD-DVD, 1080i and 1080p would be equivalent.

Movies are 24fps, so ideally you would watch them in 1080@24fps on a device that supports 72Hz (24*3 = 72).

Convert 24fps to 30fps or 60fps, it doesn't really matter.

1080p displays will be very useful for games that are native 1080p though. If there are such games in the future.

For movies on HD-DVD, 1080i and 1080p would be equivalent.

Movies are 24fps, so ideally you would watch them in 1080@24fps on a device that supports 72Hz (24*3 = 72).

Convert 24fps to 30fps or 60fps, it doesn't really matter.

1080p displays will be very useful for games that are native 1080p though. If there are such games in the future.

What do you mean by "For movies on HD-DVD, 1080i and 1080p would be equivalent"?

When you say, "1080p displays will be very useful for games that are native 1080p though", of ALL the sources that might make a 1080P display device look much better than 720P, games would be the one source that it would make little difference. Viewing a game is like watching an animated feature film. I'm always amused when somebody posts screen shots of an animated film to show how good their projector looks. There are no details in an animated face that would tell you anything about the resolution. :D

I got my Monster ISF DVD today and used it to adjust the settings on my 42PX 600u. Its very easy to use. The tweeks I made were all in the main menu. You don't have to use the service menu at all. What a difference. It really is amazing the difference it made. You guys should get one, plus you are supporting a worthy cause. Look at the opening page of the AVS forum for details on how to get one.


Oh heck here ya go. Monster ISF (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8458402#post8458402)

I got a sd card with the update from Panasonic. The card still would not read. I have one of the 1st 60U's (version 1.00 for every thing). Is there a way to do an upgrade wtihout having access to the SD input? I so not use the SD reader. That is why I only found out it did not work until now (until I needed an upgrade.

Can Panny service do an inhouse fix of the card reader? I really do not want to have to send the TV out for a few weeks.

Joel

Hi Folks,

I have an OPPO 970 DVD Player and a Motorola 3412 Comcast Cable Box with my Panny 50" 60u. Both connect via HDMI to Panny.

I really can't figure out if setting the DVD and Cable box at 720p or 1080i is best (or 480i/p for the Oppo).

I would think 720p is closet to set's resolution, but sometimes I think 1080i looks better.

Thanks!

djap2

Can someone tell me the difference between a TH42PX60u and a TH42PX600u?

Also, did anyone order their TV from www.butterflyphoto.com and have an opinion about them?

Regarding the difference, I finally found this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7374585&&#post7374585

which pretty much answers it.

Howevever, if anyone has an opinion about butterflyphoto, please send me a PM - it would be greatly appreciated.

Kev

I have the TH42PX6u and my Motorola STB connected via DVI-HDMI cable which works fine, but I get no audio running the digital audio cable from the STB to the TV??

I know the STB is sending an audio signal because if I connect the same cable to my receiver it works fine. (I can get audio via analog out from the STB but I get a hissing sound which I believe is from the STB since my previous TV had the same issue, so I want to try get the digital out to work.)

Any ideas? I've tried various combinations but am at a complete loss as to why digital audio is not working?

Much thanks for your help.

While this might not be the preferred workaround (unless this was what you were describing in your post), have you tried running a digital audio to your receiver and then a digital connection from the avr to the plasma. In doing so, you may also need to configure the avr for this configuration to have the sound then comming from your non plasma speakers.

While this might not be the preferred workaround (unless this was what you were describing in your post), have you tried running a digital audio to your receiver and then a digital connection from the avr to the plasma. In doing so, you may also need to configure the avr for this configuration to have the sound then comming from your non plasma speakers.

You're right in that this not the desired workaround since running the digital audio from the STB to the receiver and back to the TV will require the receiver to be on. In this case, I might as well just use my receiver and HT speakers - which works with the STB's audio already.

Which input are you using for digital audio on the plasma for HDMI1 or HDMI2?

Thanks again.

Movies are 24fps (frames per second). A movie projector (in most cases, as I've just learned) flashes each frame 3 times, so in effect it is a 72Hz (24x3) display device.

NTSC is ~60Hz. 1080i means the image will be interlaces, the even 540 vertical lines displayed 30 times each second and the odd 540 lines displayed 30 times each second too.

Assuming you have digitized a film source at 1080p@24fps (show all 1080 vertical lines 24 times every second), ideally you would like a display that accepts this output and shows it at 72 Hz (24x3).

However, if a display supports only 60Hz, it will either have to upscale 24 fps to 30 fps (for 1080i) or 60 fps (for 1080p).

Since 30 and 60 are both greater than 24, it doesn't matter if it's 1080i or 1080p.

Of course, the 1080p upscalers will try to tell you that they "smooth" the motion more than the 1080i displays.

What do you mean by "For movies on HD-DVD, 1080i and 1080p would be equivalent"?

When you say, "1080p displays will be very useful for games that are native 1080p though", of ALL the sources that might make a 1080P display device look much better than 720P, games would be the one source that it would make little difference. Viewing a game is like watching an animated feature film. I'm always amused when somebody posts screen shots of an animated film to show how good their projector looks. There are no details in an animated face that would tell you anything about the resolution. :D

Which input are you using for digital audio on the plasma for HDMI1 or HDMI2?

Thanks again.


I do not have an stb as I am putting the cable directly into the plasma --still getting the OTA HD signals (abc, cbs, nbc, fox, wb, pbs). I do however, have an oppo 970dvd hooked up with an hdmi from the dvd to the plasma.

Oppo DVD-->plasma =HDMI (HDMI-2)
Oppo DVD-->AVR (HK7200) =optical cable (optical input 2)
Plasma-->AVR =Optical cable (optical input 1)
CD multidisk-->AVR =coax digital
VHS-->Plasma = coax digital (vcr 1)


With this combo, I am able to decide if I wish to use the avr or the plasma speakers.
Since the AVR did not have an HDMI, I had to use this workaround to enable the sound to go the avr from the various other components and still have the plasma output to the avr via the direct optical.

Can now also use the vhs the same way (Plasma speakers or AVR speakers)
While the 50px600u speakers are good. The BWs I have hooked up through the avr coupled with the surround sound are so much richer to my ears that this is usually my mode of choice for most programming other than when watching the news. Kinda got spoiled by it. :D

I got a sd card with the update from Panasonic. The card still would not read. I have one of the 1st 60U's (version 1.00 for every thing). Is there a way to do an upgrade wtihout having access to the SD input? I so not use the SD reader. That is why I only found out it did not work until now (until I needed an upgrade.

Can Panny service do an inhouse fix of the card reader? I really do not want to have to send the TV out for a few weeks.

Joel

If the unit is still under warranty, they should send out a tech to service the unit in-house.

Quote


"If the unit is still under warranty, they should send out a tech to service the unit in-house"


Thanks!! I will do that if the 2nd SD card they send me does not work.

Joel

Watching Mickey Mouse in 1080i and 1080p may be the same. Mickey's face doesn't have much contour or different shades of color. There probably aren't even any shadows, and most objects are 2-D.

An XBOX360 game which has lots of motion - like racing cars, if produced in 1080p will be a much better experience than the same game produced in 720p and upscaled to 1080i or 1080p. I think.

However my feeling is most games, including the PS3 games will be 720p native, and will only be upscaled to 1080p.

What do you mean by "For movies on HD-DVD, 1080i and 1080p would be equivalent"?

When you say, "1080p displays will be very useful for games that are native 1080p though", of ALL the sources that might make a 1080P display device look much better than 720P, games would be the one source that it would make little difference. Viewing a game is like watching an animated feature film. I'm always amused when somebody posts screen shots of an animated film to show how good their projector looks. There are no details in an animated face that would tell you anything about the resolution. :D

Does anyone think that the 1.03 to 1.25 firmware update took away a tiny bit of sharpness? Maybe it's my eyes today but to me it did a bit. Not really 100% positive though.

It seems weird since the update is supposed to do the opposite according to the site.

Thanks!! I will do that if the 2nd SD card they send me does not work. Joel

Um, no idea if you read this previously, but did you have your TV set to the topmost input (tuner/cable) when you put in the SD card?

Yes-tried tuner and SD modes.

Thanks for asking!

Joel

Tried taking my receipt for my one month old Panny 50X6U to C__co for the $2__ discount that is offered online, but they wouldn't honor it. They said it is clearly stated that it is for online purchases only. The manager did renew my $100 membership for free. I asked him what the time limit was for price reductions and he said usually 30 days, but anything reasonable is ok. Havent tried the new firmware yet.

OK! here is latest with my 42px60u. Yesterday I invited a colleague, who owns 50px60u, to show my Plasma. When we looked at the PQ, he immediately said that it looked more like EDTV or worse. I told him that it was now much better after 1.25 firmware but he told me that it was still way off. So we packed up the TV and took it back to store and even-exchanged with another one. Once we plugged the new unit, I could immediately see what he was talking about. PQ right off the bat was excellent, no comparison with the returned unit. In fact it was so good, that I was not sure that we should even update firmware. But since many of you have already done and commented on the "slightly better PQ" and my colleague had the same comments so we updated the firmware (BTW, old version on this TV was 1.21, Manufactured in August) and we do see some minor improvement mostly in Vivid mode.

So the bottom line: Old TV firmware upgrade = big improvement, but it at the end it just a bad lemon. New TV firmware upgrade = very-very minor improvement, but TV PQ was excellent to begin with.

Couple of other notes:
A) Service menu (SM) did not change on this/new TV with firmware update.
B) Looking at SM settings of my old and new TV, it appears that Panasonic keeps the same value for SM settings for all same-model TVs, i.e. for my 42PX60U TV, the Hi-Def settings are as following:
GAIN=200, COLOR=38, TINIT=5, BRIGHT=802
For COOL settings on HD (shows as "HD FULL HIGH" in SM)
R-CUT=G-CUT=B-CUT=80, R-DRV=F1, G-DRV=FC, B-DRV=FB
ALL-CUT=80, ALL-DRV=FC, & WB-BRT=802 (NOTE: These 3 are dependent on other settings and will change automatically if you touch other settings).
For STANDARD settings on HD (shows as "HD FULL MID" in SM)
R-CUT=G-CUT=B-CUT=80, R-DRV=F1, G-DRV=FA, B-DRV=D9
ALL-CUT=80, ALL-DRV=FA, & WB-BRT=802
For WARM settings on HD (shows as "HD FULL LOW" in SM)
R-CUT=G-CUT=B-CUT=80, R-DRV=F1, G-DRV=F5, B-DRV=99
ALL-CUT=80, ALL-DRV=F5, & WB-BRT=802

Slaveunit, I did not see any sharpness difference after firmware update, on both old and new TVs. Also my colleague didn’t see any sharpness loss on his TV.

Slaveunit, I did not see any sharpness difference after firmware update, on both old and new TVs. Also my colleague didn’t see any sharpness loss on his TV.


It may have been my eyes this morning. Long night last night. I don't really see any difference either though. It does give the picture more brightness. Which really isnt anything good or bad since I had to turn it down in the settings. People say it helps the VIVID setting. I didnt think anyone really used the VIVID setting. It just seemed WAY OFF to me.

It may have been my eyes this morning. Long night last night. I don't really see any difference either though. It does give the picture more brightness. Which really isnt anything good or bad since I had to turn it down in the settings. People say it helps the VIVID setting. I didnt think anyone really used the VIVID setting. It just seemed WAY OFF to me.


I use the VIVID setting for my xbox 360-I just think that it gives the picture a little extra pop when playing video games :)

I use the VIVID setting for my xbox 360-I just think that it gives the picture a little extra pop when playing video games :)


I can understand with video games. They are supposed to be bright and punchy. I just don't get it with movies or cable TV. To each their own though.

You are right, even I don't plan to watch TV in Vivid; I say plan, because tomorrow I start my second week in HD world, of course tomorrow is also my second day with this new TV!
But a true analysis of what has changed in 1.25 can only be done by comparing many samples of different HD and SD programming on different inputs, i.e. HDMI, component, OTA, etc.
Each of us, whoever has posted here on this forum after upgrade, used a specific example/setup/video/scene to compare before and after results. This does not provide a full and comprehensive breakdown of what has changed; not to mention that each one of us is upgrading from a different previous-version.

Tried taking my receipt for my one month old Panny 50X6U to C__co for the $2__ discount that is offered online, but they wouldn't honor it. They said it is clearly stated that it is for online purchases only. The manager did renew my $100 membership for free. I asked him what the time limit was for price reductions and he said usually 30 days, but anything reasonable is ok. Havent tried the new firmware yet.

Your manager is wrong. I just got the price difference but I did request the difference within 30 days.

I have two Costcos in my area and one of them has this unit in stock and it shows the rebate on the floor. I did not have my receipt at that time so I went home and then went to a closer Costco to try to get the difference. That
costco did not have the tv in stock and they told me the system showed no sign of a rebate. They told me that I must have looked at a different product. I almost gave up. But I decided to call the other Costco and ask. They confirmed the rebate and told me that I could get the price difference.

So I go to the Costco and when I get to the service desk they said there was no price difference. I explained about the rebate on the floor and how I just called - so they got a manager. He said no problem and did a virtual return and repurchase. He said the the rebate does not show in the system until you make a purchase and it is at that time when the system will automatically reduce the price. Go back and ask them to ring it up using your product number and they will see the discount. Good luck.

I've spent two days reading through this entire thread, and only seen a few posts that touch in this subject. I got my 37px60u on Friday, and after some initial tweaking, the PQ was stunning. However, there is one thing that really annoys me, and that is dot-crawl (or pixel noise, not sure about the right term). I see it very clearly on color gradients when there is lots of blue sky. Sometimes there is a band of crawling dots, sometimes it covers an area.

I see this on both OTA HD programming (especially PBS) and DVD material.

All settings are turned way down or off. I'm also using the latest firmware.

Some posts back mentioned similar effects, and at least one post mentioned that something like this was "normal" for plasmas, but I wonder, how can that be? It's very, very obvious to me and really detracts from an otherwise great picture.

I've spent two days reading through this entire thread, and only seen a few posts that touch in this subject. I got my 37px60u on Friday, and after some initial tweaking, the PQ was stunning. However, there is one thing that really annoys me, and that is dot-crawl (or pixel noise, not sure about the right term). I see it very clearly on color gradients when there is lots of blue sky. Sometimes there is a band of crawling dots, sometimes it covers an area.

I see this on both OTA HD programming (especially PBS) and DVD material.

All settings are turned way down or off. I'm also using the latest firmware.

Some posts back mentioned similar effects, and at least one post mentioned that something like this was "normal" for plasmas, but I wonder, how can that be? It's very, very obvious to me and really detracts from an otherwise great picture.


That's very interesting because "dot crawl" and/or "pixel noise" is the one thing I don't see on my 50" unit. Although 37" isn't very big, how far back do you see this from?

While it's possible to see anything on poor SDTV material, on HD material my unit looks rock solid. DVDs also look very good.

That's very interesting because "dot crawl" and/or "pixel noise" is the one thing I don't see on my 50" unit. Although 37" isn't very big, how far back do you see this from?

While it's possible to see anything on poor SDTV material, on HD material my unit looks rock solid. DVDs also look very good.


I'm in a small room (hence the 37" TV), and I'm about 6 feet from the TV.

I'm in a small room (hence the 37" TV), and I'm about 6 feet from the TV.

I do noticed this on my 42px60u, it was much more visible on the TV I just returned (see thread with my post for more details). But in last 2 weeks after searching/reading misc. posts on this forum I found the this dot-crawl has been mentioned at many places by several names and most common are false-contouring, solarization, posterization, and banding. Most Plasma's have this issue, some very minor and others very major. Search "false contouring" on cnet.com and you will find it mention in almost all Plasma reviews.

I'm in a small room (hence the 37" TV), and I'm about 6 feet from the TV.

While that doesn't seem overly close for a 37" screen, I'm viewing a 50" screen 10 to 11 feet from my eyes to the screen. :)

Sorry for the question as I am sure it has been answered somewhere in the 68 pages of this thread, but what is the code to enter the service menu for this model?

Sorry for the question as I am sure it has been answered somewhere in the 68 pages of this thread, but what is the code to enter the service menu for this model?

Everything you need to know is on http://www.bruzzi.ws. Read and read and read :)

Justin

Does anyone think that the 1.03 to 1.25 firmware update took away a tiny bit of sharpness? Maybe it's my eyes today but to me it did a bit. Not really 100% positive though.

It seems weird since the update is supposed to do the opposite according to the site.

From 1.03 to 1.04 I did get fuzzier picture but less macro blocking noise. I have no experience with 1.25. Please note 1.04 and 1.25 deals with different pieces of hardware. You may need both.

Your manager is wrong. I just got the price difference but I did request the difference within 30 days.

I have two Costcos in my area and one of them has this unit in stock and it shows the rebate on the floor. I did not have my receipt at that time so I went home and then went to a closer Costco to try to get the difference. That
costco did not have the tv in stock and they told me the system showed no sign of a rebate. They told me that I must have looked at a different product. I almost gave up. But I decided to call the other Costco and ask. They confirmed the rebate and told me that I could get the price difference.

So I go to the Costco and when I get to the service desk they said there was no price difference. I explained about the rebate on the floor and how I just called - so they got a manager. He said no problem and did a virtual return and repurchase. He said the the rebate does not show in the system until you make a purchase and it is at that time when the system will automatically reduce the price. Go back and ask them to ring it up using your product number and they will see the discount. Good luck.

Well I will have to try that, thanks. The one I went to did not have a rebate on the model on the floor. Manager looked up the website and said it was a manufacturers rebate for online purchases only. Thanks for the info though.

I watched two HD shows back to back last night on NBC, one which were badly affected by this "false contouring" (Heroes) and one which was not (Studio 60). In Heroes, especially in some of the outdoor scenes in the desert, the sky was full of gradation errors with lots of pixel noise/grain between the grades of blue or whiteish color in the sky. Also, the face of one of the characters often had blobs of beige color. It was like watching the show on a computer in 256 color....

On the other hand, Studio 60 was gorgeous, absolutely stunning. But this is a very muted show, lots of dark colors, which my set renders perfectly.

Also, when tuning to the late night talk shows, the picture is incredible, not a spec of grain, noise or anything else.

I've only had the set for a couple of days. I've turned down most settings and done some basic calibration using the THX Optimizer off a movie disc, I have yet to do a full calibration using DVD Essentials. But before my 30 day CC return policy is up I will have to make a decision on whether to exchange this set.

But before my 30 day CC return policy is up I will have to make a decision on whether to exchange this set.

I'm confused... You say that almost everything looks incredible, but one show was subpar and you are willing to return the set?

Justin

I watched two HD shows back to back last night on NBC, one which were badly affected by this "false contouring" (Heroes) and one which was not (Studio 60). In Heroes, especially in some of the outdoor scenes in the desert, the sky was full of gradation errors with lots of pixel noise/grain between the grades of blue or whiteish color in the sky. Also, the face of one of the characters often had blobs of beige color. It was like watching the show on a computer in 256 color....

On the other hand, Studio 60 was gorgeous, absolutely stunning. But this is a very muted show, lots of dark colors, which my set renders perfectly.

Also, when tuning to the late night talk shows, the picture is incredible, not a spec of grain, noise or anything else.

I've only had the set for a couple of days. I've turned down most settings and done some basic calibration using the THX Optimizer off a movie disc, I have yet to do a full calibration using DVD Essentials. But before my 30 day CC return policy is up I will have to make a decision on whether to exchange this set.

Don't get caught in the syndrome of blaming the display device for the shortcomings of the source signal. If you do, you'll drive yourself nuts. ;)

Since you are using an OTA signal, the problem "could" be the fault of the local network affiliate. Just because one person says NBC or CBS looks great, that doesn't mean that "your" local signal is. They don't just "pass through" a digital signal, it's being processed, otherwise they couldn't even insert their local commercials.

Everything you need to know is on http://www.bruzzi.ws. Read and read and read

Justin

I have one question which I don't see address on Bruzzi's site. If it's been addressed here, please accept my apologies.

I have the TH-42PX6U and on the Panasonic firmware update site it has this model listed for the 1.25 update. But as far as I can determine there is no way to update this model as it does not have the SD slot.

Thanks for any insight that can be extended.

I loaded the ver 1.46 DG Board firmware upgrade (600U), and one result was an overall loss in brightness. It's as if Vivid became Standard, Standard became Cinema, and Cinema became Dungeon mode. I'd like to see others comments/observations about the upgrade. We don't seem to have very many adopters on the Forum.

I have one question which I don't see address on Bruzzi's site. If it's been addressed here, please accept my apologies.

I have the TH-42PX6U and on the Panasonic firmware update site it has this model listed for the 1.25 update. But as far as I can determine there is no way to update this model as it does not have the SD slot.

Thanks for any insight that can be extended.

Check the back of the TV, I think it's labeled a "service port" or something like that. ;)

Justin

I loaded the ver 1.46 DG Board firmware upgrade (600U), and one result was an overall loss in brightness. It's as if Vivid became Standard, Standard became Cinema, and Cinema became Dungeon mode. I'd like to see others comments/observations about the upgrade. We don't seem to have very many adopters on the Forum.

I didn't notice much difference in the brightness, but then again, I'm still in "break in" mode, with everything set to "0"... I thought there were a lot of adopters, seemed like everyone was upgrading their sets. :rolleyes:

Justin

Don't get caught in the syndrome of blaming the display device for the shortcomings of the source signal. If you do, you'll drive yourself nuts. ;)

Since you are using an OTA signal, the problem "could" be the fault of the local network affiliate. Just because one person says NBC or CBS looks great, that doesn't mean that "your" local signal is. They don't just "pass through" a digital signal, it's being processed, otherwise they couldn't even insert their local commercials.

Yes, I'm aware of this, but everything I watched last night was one channel, NBC. Also, the effects I saw on Heroes I've also noticed watching an episode of Alias on DVD (the noise between gradients, weird effects on some faces).

I know I need to do a lot more watching and some calibrating. I hate the hassle of returning/exchanging something this size (especially since I have to get help from friends transporting it). I'm going to give it a week or two before making that decision.

Check the back of the TV, I think it's labeled a "service port" or something like that. ;)

Justin

I have the 50" version of that set and there is a port labeled "service" which is the sd slot. Installed the update and everything works fine.

Yes, I'm aware of this, but everything I watched last night was one channel, NBC. Also, the effects I saw .............................

There were 2 issues I saw with old/returned TV: A) flashing pixels near/around gradation, these were mostly burgundy/maroon/red in color. They were most visible when standing within 1-2 feet from TV. B) The posterization, this was more like affect you see when you turn your PC display from 32bit color to 8bit (only 256 colors). This was very bad and visible from 9-10 feet away (my normal viewing position).
With the new TV the problem (B) is completely gone. Problem (A) is still there, but it is reduced by 50% and does not bother me because from 9-10 feet you don't see it and even at 5-6 feet it does not distract you (you do see it 5-6ft if you force yourself to observe it). The first time I observed problem (A) when kids were watching Monsters Inc. (on retuned TV). I was standing close to TV and in chapter 7 I noticed the locker-room walls and especially around the ceiling lights had flashing pixels in some gradation bands. I paused my DVD and noticed that flashing pixels kept flashing (even in pause mode!!). So I always use that scene to measure flashing-pixels. With new TV I see these flashing pixels around ceiling lights only, and only in Cinema mode (My Cinema = Pict=+6,Bright=+5,Color=-3,Tint=-2,Sharp=-7,Temp=Warm).

Fellow forumfriends,

I need to get your opinion urgently on deciding between the Panny 50PX60U and 50PX600U. I actually placed the order for a 50PX600U primarily because it comes with PIP (dual source) and Cablecard slot. I am assuming that
1. Because of the dual-source PIP, I can watch 2 TV shows (especially basketball and football games and wife's favourite comedy shows)
2. The cablecard slot will eliminate the necessity for a bluky Comcast set-top box.

Can you please confirm both of these assumptions?

The reason is the e-tailer screwed up my order and has sent me a 50PX60U instead. I have the option to return it but he is willing to give me $250 credit for the mix-up. I can make a decision only if I know that a 50PX600U is definitely going to conform to the 2 assumptions I made. PLEASE HELP!!

There were 2 issues I saw with old/returned TV: A) flashing pixels near/around gradation, these were mostly burgundy/maroon/red in color. They were most visible when standing within 1-2 feet from TV. B) The posterization, this was more like affect you see when you turn your PC display from 32bit color to 8bit (only 256 colors). This was very bad and visible from 9-10 feet away (my normal viewing position).
With the new TV the problem (B) is completely gone. Problem (A) is still there, but it is reduced by 50% and does not bother me because from 9-10 feet you don't see it and even at 5-6 feet it does not distract you (you do see it 5-6ft if you force yourself to observe it). The first time I observed problem (A) when kids were watching Monsters Inc. (on retuned TV). I was standing close to TV and in chapter 7 I noticed the locker-room walls and especially around the ceiling lights had flashing pixels in some gradation bands. I paused my DVD and noticed that flashing pixels kept flashing (even in pause mode!!). So I always use that scene to measure flashing-pixels. With new TV I see these flashing pixels around ceiling lights only, and only in Cinema mode (My Cinema = Pict=+6,Bright=+5,Color=-3,Tint=-2,Sharp=-7,Temp=Warm).


Yes, the flashing pixels I see keeps flashing when I pause. Also, in pause mode, if I adjust brightness, the area with the flashing pixels will move around on the screen.

As for posterization, I looked at a picture on highdefinitionblog.com (under HDTV artifacts), and that is exactly what I am seing. If you say that is completely gone after replacing the TV, that is most likely what I will do as well. I did place a call to the Panasonic Plasma Concierge line, and they recommended I reset the screen (by using the self-check feature), and call them back. I will do what they ask, but I am pretty confident now that CC will have to exchange my TV.

Fellow forumfriends,

I need to get your opinion urgently on deciding between the Panny 50PX60U and 50PX600U. I actually placed the order for a 50PX600U primarily because it comes with PIP (dual source) and Cablecard slot. I am assuming that
1. Because of the dual-source PIP, I can watch 2 TV shows (especially basketball and football games and wife's favourite comedy shows)
2. The cablecard slot will eliminate the necessity for a bluky Comcast set-top box.

Can you please confirm both of these assumptions?


Yep, that's what PIP and Cablecards do. Assuming you don't want to time-shift anything (ie. DVR), you should be good to go.

I am not sure, though, that the tuner will be able to tune two live shows over 1 cablecard, though.

Originally Posted by pararaj
Fellow forumfriends,

I need to get your opinion urgently on deciding between the Panny 50PX60U and 50PX600U. I actually placed the order for a 50PX600U primarily because it comes with PIP (dual source) and Cablecard slot. I am assuming that
1. Because of the dual-source PIP, I can watch 2 TV shows (especially basketball and football games and wife's favourite comedy shows)
2. The cablecard slot will eliminate the necessity for a bluky Comcast set-top box.

Can you please confirm both of these assumptions?
I am not sure if PIP will work with two cable channels if you only use one CableCard. (My gut reaction is "no".) You can get two CableCards, but there might be a monthly charge of some sort.
As for #2, if you do not want InDemand and either you do not watch Pay-Per-Views or are willing to call Comcast each time you want to view one (this includes PPV movies), then you do not need the set-top box if you use a CableCard. (Keep in mind that a CableCard also does not have the recording capability of Comcast's PVR cable box.)
At least this is for now. "Eventually," they will develop a CableCard that can send signals back, so things like InDemand would work without the box.

I have Comcast with one of their boxes (for InDemand), but I went for the 600 rather than the 60 because of the extra features.

-- Don

Thanks guys!

So looks like watching 2 cable TV shows with just one cablecard may not be possible unless I get another cable card from Comcast, at a monthly charge. However, does the TV have 2 slots to accomodate the 2 cablecards? Also, does that mean I can watch a DVD movie and a cableTV simultaneously without any extra hardware?

I don't watch much PPV or In-Demand, so for now, I would like to conserve the space and avoid the set-top box.

Apart from these 2 features (PIP and cablecard slot), is there anything else significantly different in the 2 models (like picture quality, ease of calibration etc.) ? The offer to get additional $250 credit is really tempting, that's why I would like to know any pros and cons of one model over another. Any inputs will be appreciated.

Thanks guys!

So looks like watching 2 cable TV shows with just one cablecard may not be possible unless I get another cable card from Comcast, at a monthly charge. However, does the TV have 2 slots to accomodate the 2 cablecards? Also, does that mean I can watch a DVD movie and a cableTV simultaneously without any extra hardware?

I don't watch much PPV or In-Demand, so for now, I would like to conserve the space and avoid the set-top box.

Apart from these 2 features (PIP and cablecard slot), is there anything else significantly different in the 2 models (like picture quality, ease of calibration etc.) ? The offer to get additional $250 credit is really tempting, that's why I would like to know any pros and cons of one model over another. Any inputs will be appreciated.

I have CAREFULLY looked at bot the 60U and 600U and the picture quality is no better on the 600U, however, the 600U doesn't have the extra space under the bottom frame, which I like better.

You only get cablecard slot. I'm not familiar with Comcast, but make sure you can get a cablecard from your cable carrier FIRST. ;)

Only one cable card slot, but I think you can use cable card as tuner 1 + over the air HD chanels as tuner 2.

ah! So you mean, get an external antenna to catch the over-the-air HD transmission and that way you can watch 2 TV channels simultaneously, one via the Comcast cablecard and one via the over-the-air HD transmission. I didn't know it was possible to have both an antenna and cablecard plugged to the TV simultaneously, to receive inputs from both sources at the same time. Wouldn't that hose up the channel tuning and numbering? Please mind my ignorance here, gurus!

ah! So you mean, get an external antenna to catch the over-the-air HD transmission and that way you can watch 2 TV channels simultaneously, one via the Comcast cablecard and one via the over-the-air HD transmission. I didn't know it was possible to have both an antenna and cablecard plugged to the TV simultaneously, to receive inputs from both sources at the same time. Wouldn't that hose up the channel tuning and numbering? Please mind my ignorance here, gurus!


If you use a cablecard, you already have the "antenna IN" used by your cable, so unless you could use a combiner (splitter in reverse), which I don't think will work, you can't do that.

If you used a regular cable box, then you could feed the OTA antenna cable to the antenna IN connection.

I just updated my 37-PX60u's firmware last night using Flossy's instructions. The update went on without a hitch and is very easy to do. Both the tuner and EEPROM versions were updated. The version went from 0100-0310 to 0142-0510 and I have to say, the update really did improve the detail in the picture. And after some re-tweaking, the PQ is now perfect.

Thanks Flossy for your help.

A friend asked me to look at his 50PX60U because he wanted to know if he had a "problem". I asked him what the problem was and he goes to turn the unit off. :confused: I asked what I was supposed to see with the set off and he said, "listen".

After "listening" for nearly 30 minutes while I was reading a manual, yet still listening, all of a sudden I hear "clicking", just like when you turn the set on, but in this case, it didn't come on and nobody was trying to turn it on.

According to my friend, the clicking is random and can happen anytime or may not happen at all for a day or two. While I understand the circuitry that controls the relays, I'm not sure WHY it should click, yet, no turn on.

Has ANYONE ELSE noticed this "clicking" syndrome on their 60U/600U sets? :)

Don't get caught in the syndrome of blaming the display device for the shortcomings of the source signal. If you do, you'll drive yourself nuts. ;)

Since you are using an OTA signal, the problem "could" be the fault of the local network affiliate. Just because one person says NBC or CBS looks great, that doesn't mean that "your" local signal is. They don't just "pass through" a digital signal, it's being processed, otherwise they couldn't even insert their local commercials.


After discovering and reading the Houston - OTA thread I realize that I probably picked a poor channel to evalutate my display. Apparently, NBC does have some issues with their broadcast, and one post did in fact mention certain artifacts (like clay face) in Heroes. And I have to note that the last episode of Heroes is the only time I have actually seen the clay face effect.

I still see posterization effects on multiple channels and sources, especially on blue sky, and based on the posts from kmj5, I might still exchange the set, but not yet. Last night I ran through Digital Video Essentials, and while tweaking did back-and-forth switching between HDMI and Component (DVD player hooked up with both). It's been mentioned before that HDMI upconversion could cause grainy scenes, so I wanted to try component. I noticed that while using component and looking at the color bar screens in DVE that there was a LOT of grain inside the color bars. However, ALL of that grain went away when I switched the TV from SD to HD color space. For some reason it defaults to SD when using component. Also, when using component, progressive from the DVD player was significantly better than interlaced.

I have the TV now adjusted to Cinema mode, and will see over the next few days what kind of effect that and the DVE calibration has on the PQ.

Sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but i gotta ask again, are any of you guys have black crush/lack of grey detail issues? If so, what are your preferred settings to balance contrast vs. details in blacks?

Also, if I'm using an upconverting DVD player (Denon 1920) is it better to set the Panny to 720p or 1080i?

Thanks fellow Panny owners!

Sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but i gotta ask again, are any of you guys have black crush/lack of grey detail issues? If so, what are your preferred settings to balance contrast vs. details in blacks?

Also, if I'm using an upconverting DVD player (Denon 1920) is it better to set the Panny to 720p or 1080i?

Thanks fellow Panny owners!

Yes. Often the "dark" areas are just plain black. Some of that is the TV and some the signal.

The latest FW upgrade (read previous posts - there are a ton of them) is supposed to help with that.

A Pro-calibration is particularly focused on black/grey levels and getting you more detail.

I have a 50PX60U and just put in the FW upgrade today. I have yet to have enough time to evaluate.

I did the firmware update and only noticed slight improvement in the black details. The pro calibration sounds tempting!

I'd be interested to see what the more experienced owners think of the black/grey detail issues. Also those who have had pro-calibrations and what they think of the diff's.

whats the best way to connect a pc/laptop to a 60u? VGA to Component? Would I have control over the resolution like this?

Thanks guys!

So looks like watching 2 cable TV shows with just one cablecard may not be possible unless I get another cable card from Comcast, at a monthly charge. However, does the TV have 2 slots to accomodate the 2 cablecards? Also, does that mean I can watch a DVD movie and a cableTV simultaneously without any extra hardware?

My mistake - you can only put one CableCard into the 600. I was thinking of the new HD TiVo, which has two CableCard slots.

The limitations on the 600's "split screen" (they don't call it picture-in-picture as the two screens are always side by side) are, they can't both be broadcast stations (for example, you cannot set one to channel 38 and the other to 402), and neither can be either HDMI or the PC input. You can, as you asked, have a DVD and a broadcast station showing simultaneously.

(Actually, there is a way to watch two different broadcast stations, but it requires a cable box; you run the cable through a splitter, and run one output into the TV's antenna jack and the other through the cable box (provided the cable box isn't hooked up to the TV through HDMI).)

-- Don

Has ANYONE ELSE noticed this "clicking" syndrome on their 60U/600U sets? :)

I've heard it on my 60U, was under the impression it was something related to the fans? never really looked into it though.

You can, as you asked, have a DVD and a broadcast station showing simultaneously.


As long as you don't have the DVD player hooked up via HDMI, that is.

I've heard it on my 60U, was under the impression it was something related to the fans? never really looked into it though.

I've read (maybe earlier in this enormous thread) that the clicking is related to the TV Guide function being enabled.

(Actually, there is a way to watch two different broadcast stations, but it requires a cable box; you run the cable through a splitter, and run one output into the TV's antenna jack and the other through the cable box (provided the cable box isn't hooked up to the TV through HDMI).)

-- Don

Regarding Split screen, and building off the quote above, if we had a cable box that allowed both HDMI and component to be output simultaneously... could we:

- Make the HDMI connection out of the cable box into the TV.
- Also, make a component video connection also from the cable box to the TV.
- Also, split the coax cable that comes out of the wall... one going to the cable box and the other going directly to the TV's antenna jack as described by Don above.

If this setup can be done, then it would seem we can watch normal cable box channels from the HDMI using that video input, but if you want to use split screen you can split between the component video input (also from the cable box) and the regular coax cable from the wall going into the TV.

I don't have a PX600U yet to try this on. Anyone know if it will work (assuming the cable box will allow us to output both HDMI and component video outputs at the same time from one tuner of the STB)?

beatles6 had the idea on the 58PX600U thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8157237&&#post8157237
and Mike1117 tried this (at least this STB seemed to allow it):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8179927&&#post8179927

BTW, does anyone know why Panny does not allow split screen using HDMI as one of the inputs?

BTW, does anyone know why Panny does not allow split screen using HDMI as one of the inputs?

I'm not sure, but prior to my Panasonic, I had a Maxent and it had the same limitation.

Was wondering what you fellow Canucks have paid for the 50PX60U? I saw a REALLY good price (I think) last week and I am now kicking myself for not jumping on it :( . To date everywhere I check the price is at least $400 more. Pm me if you want to share details.

A friend asked me to look at his 50PX60U because he wanted to know if he had a "problem". I asked him what the problem was and he goes to turn the unit off. :confused: I asked what I was supposed to see with the set off and he said, "listen".

After "listening" for nearly 30 minutes while I was reading a manual, yet still listening, all of a sudden I hear "clicking", just like when you turn the set on, but in this case, it didn't come on and nobody was trying to turn it on.

According to my friend, the clicking is random and can happen anytime or may not happen at all for a day or two. While I understand the circuitry that controls the relays, I'm not sure WHY it should click, yet, no turn on.

Has ANYONE ELSE noticed this "clicking" syndrome on their 60U/600U sets? :)

I think they found a solution for the 600 sets but nothing yet for the 60's, I have the TH-42PX60 set and still get random clicking :(, anyhow here's the link to that info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8388793&&#post8388793

A friend asked me to look at his 50PX60U because he wanted to know if he had a "problem". I asked him what the problem was and he goes to turn the unit off. :confused: I asked what I was supposed to see with the set off and he said, "listen".

After "listening" for nearly 30 minutes while I was reading a manual, yet still listening, all of a sudden I hear "clicking", just like when you turn the set on, but in this case, it didn't come on and nobody was trying to turn it on.

According to my friend, the clicking is random and can happen anytime or may not happen at all for a day or two. While I understand the circuitry that controls the relays, I'm not sure WHY it should click, yet, no turn on.

Has ANYONE ELSE noticed this "clicking" syndrome on their 60U/600U sets? :)

I think they found a solution for the 600 sets but nothing yet for the 60's, I have the TH-42PX60 set and still get random clicking :(, anyhow here's the link to that info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8388793&&#post8388793

Yes, I did quite a bit of research and experimenting a while back on this clicking issue on my panny 50PX600U plasma. Turns out it was not an issue at all, but rather a normal routine operation function that triggered the power relay switch (clicking sound) when updating the TVGuide feature while the plasma is in the off (standby mode) position but still plugged into a live outlet. Disabling the TVGuide feature in the setup menu will end the random clicking.

Also FYI, even with the TVGuide feature disable, if electical power is interrupted to the set, even for a fraction of a second, the power relay switches may engage thus producing the clicking sound. For instance, if power is off for more than a few seconds, most of my microwave ovens & vcrs will show the flashing 12:00 time on the display. Now if the power is off or interrupted for less that a few seconds, these same microwave ovens & vcrs will not result in the flashing 12:00 time, but show the correct time. However, I have one vcr that will flash the 12:00 time even with the slightest fraction of a second inturruption. I got the bright idea to plug this particular vcr into the same surge protector as the 50PX600U and VIOLA!!! I made a surprising discovery. With the TVGuide feature disabled on the panny and no more random clicking, the very few times that I have since heard the clicking while the set was off, each & every time without fail that vcr plugged into the same power protector immediately was flashing the 12:00 time display indicating a power interruption that was usually not long enough to be detected in any of the other appliances or components.

I have had a TH-50PX60U for a little over a month.

I have never heard it click.
It also does not have a TV-Guide feature.

Yes, I did quite a bit of research and experimenting a while back on this clicking issue on my panny 50PX600U plasma. Turns out it was not an issue at all, but rather a normal routine operation function that triggered the power relay switch (clicking sound) when updating the TVGuide feature while the plasma is in the off (standby mode) position but still plugged into a live outlet. Disabling the TVGuide feature in the setup menu will end the random clicking.

Also FYI, even with the TVGuide feature disable, if electical power is interrupted to the set, even for a fraction of a second, the power relay switches may engage thus producing the clicking sound. For instance, if power is off for more than a few seconds, most of my microwave ovens & vcrs will show the flashing 12:00 time on the display. Now if the power is off or interrupted for less that a few seconds, these same microwave ovens & vcrs will not result in the flashing 12:00 time, but show the correct time. However, I have one vcr that will flash the 12:00 time even with the slightest fraction of a second inturruption. I got the bright idea to plug this particular vcr into the same surge protector as the 50PX600U and VIOLA!!! I made a surprising discovery. With the TVGuide feature disabled on the panny and no more random clicking, the very few times that I have since heard the clicking while the set was off, each & every time without fail that vcr plugged into the same power protector immediately was flashing the 12:00 time display indicating a power interruption that was usually not long enough to be detected in any of the other appliances or components.

Nice experimenting, so would you recommend a surge protector or a battery backup?

D-Bucket,

I was thinking if the slightest interruption causes the power to trip, how come it never happens when the set is on? Or how come we never see the “first time setup box” after powering the set back on after the clicking?

Has ANYONE ELSE noticed this "clicking" syndrome on their 60U/600U sets? :)
Not on this Pan 50PX60U, just the 2-clicks when I turn it on. No TV Guide.

--

Good find D-Bucket, I'll remember that random clicking if using the tv guide.

I'd be interested to see what the more experienced owners think of the black/grey detail issues. Also those who have had pro-calibrations and what they think of the diff's.

I have had a professional calibration from Gregg Loewen. I personally see a huge difference in black levels. Before the calibration the blacks often looked closer to grey. Now I can see details in the darker areas and the blacks to me almost rival what I use to see on CRT Tubes.

Originally Posted by sma
Regarding Split screen, and building off the quote above, if we had a cable box that allowed both HDMI and component to be output simultaneously... could we:

- Make the HDMI connection out of the cable box into the TV.
- Also, make a component video connection also from the cable box to the TV.
- Also, split the coax cable that comes out of the wall... one going to the cable box and the other going directly to the TV's antenna jack as described by Don above.

If this setup can be done, then it would seem we can watch normal cable box channels from the HDMI using that video input, but if you want to use split screen you can split between the component video input (also from the cable box) and the regular coax cable from the wall going into the TV.
Assuming the cable box can output through the HDMI and the component output simultaneously, I don't see why that wouldn't work.
(I do something similar to this now, but instead of running the split cable directly into the TV, I run it into my TiVo, and then connect that to my TV via S-video/composite.)

The only problem is, unless you have a CableCard installed in the TV, you can't watch two digital channels simultaneously - just one digital (through the cable box) and one analog (through the cable going directly into the TV).

BTW, does anyone know why Panny does not allow split screen using HDMI as one of the inputs?
Apparently, having an HDMI channel and another channel on at the same time requires an HDMI processing chip that can handle multiple outputs, and those may not exist yet. Here is an article from February about a company that was making one, but it says that delivery was not planned until at least the second half of 2006, making it too late for the already-released 600s:
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=180207157

-- Don

First, thanks to all of you for the infomation in this thread.

I have a 3 week old 600U that I like very much. It is hooked up via HDMI from scientific HD cablebox. Once in a while I see the image skip like it gets behind and is trying to catch up or something. If that makes any sense. I havent noticed any pattern yet ie specific channels etc. Does anyonehave any idea what this is? To me it seems like a signal problem rather than the tv.

thanks!

First, thanks to all of you for the infomation in this thread.

I have a 3 week old 600U that I like very much. It is hooked up via HDMI from scientific HD cablebox. Once in a while I see the image skip like it gets behind and is trying to catch up or something. If that makes any sense. I havent noticed any pattern yet ie specific channels etc. Does anyonehave any idea what this is? To me it seems like a signal problem rather than the tv.

thanks!
I know you said you didn't notice a "specific channels" pattern, but have you noticed if it is happening just on the digital channels?
Also, by "skipping", do you mean that the picture freezes for an instant, then jumps ahead?

It sounds like something my Motorola HD box does when I watch HD stations - I'm pretty sure it's just the signal. (HD signals still have a few glitches; this past Monday, NBC had some serious audio problems - first, Heroes had some problems with the 5.1, and then some stations had no center channel (where all of the dialogue takes place) for the first few minutes of Studio 60.

-- Don

I know you said you didn't notice a "specific channels" pattern, but have you noticed if it is happening just on the digital channels?
Also, by "skipping", do you mean that the picture freezes for an instant, then jumps ahead?

It sounds like something my Motorola HD box does when I watch HD stations - I'm pretty sure it's just the signal. (HD signals still have a few glitches; this past Monday, NBC had some serious audio problems - first, Heroes had some problems with the 5.1, and then some stations had no center channel (where all of the dialogue takes place) for the first few minutes of Studio 60.

-- Don

Now that you mention it, I think it is only happening on the digital HD channels. The picture doesnt freeze but you might see someone on the screen make a fast movement like the image jerks. It only happens once in a while. Would changing it to component connections or is it just something that is going to happen when the signal is a little flaky?
thanks!!!

Now that you mention it, I think it is only happening on the digital HD channels. The picture doesnt freeze but you might see someone on the screen make a fast movement like the image jerks. It only happens once in a while. Would changing it to component connections or is it just something that is going to happen when the signal is a little flaky?
I'm fairly certain it is the signal itself, and if it is, then it's going to happen no matter how you connect your cable box to the TV.

The "Local HDTV Info and Reception" forum (in the HD category) here has threads for specific parts of the country - maybe somebody else has noticed the same problems with the signal that you are having. (San Francisco/San Jose's NBC station seems to be having some serious problems with HD lately.)

-- Don

thanks Don! I appreciate the help.

Nice experimenting, so would you recommend a surge protector or a battery backup?

Imho, for tv's and most all other a/v equipment, I would use a good surge protector/power condidioner rather than a battery backup (ups). There are a few exceptions however:

1) High Current Power Amplifiers - I would use only a non power limiting surge/conditioner that was specifically designed for high current power amps or use nothing at all and plug the power amp directly into the wall outlet without protection.

2) DVR/PVR/Tivo's - I would use battery backup protection for these.

3) Computers/htpc/media center pc - I would use battery backup protection for these.

I was thinking if the slightest interruption causes the power to trip, how come it never happens when the set is on? Or how come we never see the “first time setup box” after powering the set back on after the clicking?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, I did not mean that it was the PANNY's power relays tripping every time with the slightest power interruption but rather that it was that old antique VCR that resets with the slight power interruption. That vcr was plugged into the same power surge unit as the panny specifically just to give me a visual alert when power is interrupted. The thing is the vcr has ocassionally flashed the 12:00 time while the plasma was on with no effects and it has also flashed the 12:00 time while the plasma was off without the power relays clicking. The point I was trying to make was with the TVGuide disabled, the very, very few infrequent times the tv has made the clicking sound while off, the vcr at the same time also begun immediately flashing the 12:00 time. I should have emphasized the converse was NOT true, ie, while the tv was off, most of the times that the vcr flashed the 12:00 time, the tv did not produce the clicking sound.

Between all the recent thunder & lightnening storms and the massive amount of new home construction going on here, power has been interrupted more than a few times. Even though electrical power has sometime been out for way more than a few hours, the “first time setup box” has never reappeared on my panel since the first time I plugged it in on the the day it was delivered.

Thanks for clarifying that D-Bucket.

Now that you mention it, I think it is only happening on the digital HD channels. The picture doesnt freeze but you might see someone on the screen make a fast movement like the image jerks. It only happens once in a while. Would changing it to component connections or is it just something that is going to happen when the signal is a little flaky?
thanks!!!

I sometimes see the picture freeze for an instant, then catch up. I'm pretty sure that's a signal reception issue (Motorola digital satellite receiver connected via HDMI). If it freezes for more than an instant, the picture starts to break up.

I've also noticed sometimes on the HD channels that fast movement seems just a little jerky. I've been trying to figure out whether it's a screen phosphor persistence issue or something else. It could be a signal bandwidth issue I suppose - they might be skipping a frame, or it could be a 720p-into-1080i frame rate issue (my satellite provider sends everything as 1080i, even when the original network source was 720p). I haven't noticed the issue on 480p input from DVD, so it's possible.

I see some of the same things. I have my cable box set at 1080i, do you think it would make a difference if I set it to 720p??

I see some of the same things. I have my cable box set at 1080i, do you think it would make a difference if I set it to 720p??

I don’t think changing your output will make any difference. I have two 8300 DVRs from TWC on two separate TVs. On my 50PX60U I have the 8300 output set to 1080i. On my Samsung DLP I have the output set to pass through all resolutions. Both TVs show digital signal artifacts on occasion. For a short period a couple months ago I was having a severe problem with digital signal loss. TWC said they were balancing the system in my area and the problem would be temporary. They were correct. You may want to contact your provider if you’re experiencing signal loss too often.

On my 50PX60U I have the 8300 output set to 1080i.

I have the 8300 from Cablevision, but I have mine set to "Auto" and it passes through 720p when it is broadcast and 1080i when it is broadcast. I am curious why you have it set to convert the 720p broadcasts to 1080i?

Are you also "upconverting" the SD channels through the box, only allowing 1080i to the set? Just wondering if there's any benefit?

I have the 8300 from Cablevision, but I have mine set to "Auto" and it passes through 720p when it is broadcast and 1080i when it is broadcast. I am curious why you have it set to convert the 720p broadcasts to 1080i?

Are you also "upconverting" the SD channels through the box, only allowing 1080i to the set? Just wondering if there's any benefit?

Does anyone know if the auto feature is an option on the Motorola boxes?

I have the 8300 from Cablevision, but I have mine set to "Auto" and it passes through 720p when it is broadcast and 1080i when it is broadcast. I am curious why you have it set to convert the 720p broadcasts to 1080i?

Are you also "upconverting" the SD channels through the box, only allowing 1080i to the set? Just wondering if there's any benefit?

Justin,
I have the 8300 set to output 1080i for everything because I find the long delay, when switching channels, annoying. The Panasonic takes far more time to adjust to the different formats than the DVR does. I also found the HDNet test pattern looked best on the Panasonic in 1080i (the test pattern is broadcast in 1080i). Stations that are broadcast in 720P look just as good to me, when converted to 1080i by the DVR.

I recently purchased and installed a TH-50PX60U. I had not previously been a fan of plasma. I simply had no other choice for getting a 50" screen in the bedroom. I had to have a wall mountable screen. I was expecting and prepared to live with a decent, but not truly excellent, picture. This thing performs way beyond my expectations. I'm amazed. Way to go Panasonic! I've read through much of this thread, so I figured I'd share my experience.

Settings - I'm using the settings I found in a review of TH-50PX60U online. I realize all installation are unique, but these settings work great for me. My viewing distance is about 12ft.

50PX60U Optimal Picture Settings (from link above)
Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temperature: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: The review stated a setting of "off" for black level, I see only "light" or "dark" as choices. I am using "dark".

Firmware - My Panny has a date of Sep 06. It came with firmware version 1.2x (It's not 1.25, I just can't remember the 'x'). I am not compelled to update the firmware until I learn more about what improvements have been made since 1.2x.

Audio/Video connections –

I am driving this with a Dish Network High Def ViP622 DVR. This DVR also happens to drive a Sanyo PLV-Z4 projector downstairs via component cables and I drive the 50PX60U audio and video via a 25ft HDMI cable that I snaked up through the floor to the bedroom. I bought the cable online for about $50. I should mention that I can detect no difference at all in PQ in either system between component and HDMI. I have the DVR set to output 720P, but I can not detect a difference when I set the DVR ouput to 1080i. I was worried about trying to run HDMI 25ft, but from what I have read, at this distance, you just don't know until you try. It works perfectly and this is an inexpensive cable (28AWG, not 24AWG). I also drive the 50PX60U with an ordinary Panasonic progressive scan, (not up-converting) DVD player, via component cables (video) and stereo rca cables (audio).

Right now, I have a simple stereo amp connected to the analog stereo outputs of the 50PX60U. I was pleasantly surprised to see the HDMI input audio coming out the stereo analog outputs. This setup means that the 50PX60U does all the switching and I never have to switch sources on the AMP.

Mount – I have this mounted to a wall about 7 feet from the floor using a tilting universal wall mount from OmniMount (“U3 Tilt”). It works great.

The picture is absolutely gorgeous. I am really impressed.

Enhanced Black Level: The review stated a setting of "off" for black level, I see only "light" or "dark" as choices. I am using "dark".

The picture is absolutely gorgeous. I am really impressed.

Glad to hear you love your set. I love mine (which is the same as yours!) and it impresses me every day.

So when you are upstairs, how do you change the channel/program on the DVR???

Also, FYI, I think that using "dark" means that your enhanced black level is "on"

I have had a professional calibration from Gregg Loewen. I personally see a huge difference in black levels. Before the calibration the blacks often looked closer to grey. Now I can see details in the darker areas and the blacks to me almost rival what I use to see on CRT Tubes.


mconstant,

What set do you have?
What are your settings in the user adjustable area?
What if any tweaks were done to the service menu?

I understand that many of the adjustments made in the Service Menu are done for that set with special equipment but I would like to know how different they are from the defaults. Seems that not one person on this thread that is now >70 pages long has posted a single Service Menu tweak on a TWEAK thread. What the *%$*!@# is the problem with this!

No, the 3412 and 6412 make you choose either 720p or 1080i. There is no option to output what the station is broadcasting in.

Does anyone know if the auto feature is an option on the Motorola boxes?

So when you are upstairs, how do you change the channel/program on the DVR???

Also, FYI, I think that using "dark" means that your enhanced black level is "on"

The DVR has two tuners and comes with two remotes. One is IR, one if RF. I use the RF one in the bedroom.

As for Black Level Enhancement, I like On/Dark better then Off/Light. But I don't know technically what processing is going on.

The DVR has two tuners and comes with two remotes. One is IR, one if RF. I use the RF one in the bedroom.


Cool! That's mighty convenient! :D

I've had my PX60 for 2 months now and from the get go there has been a loud hum from the rear of the unit and the R side (as you face the front) while it's on. My guess is that this is the power supply. The noise definitely gets worse when the picture is white.

I added a AC regenerator to filter out AC noise and protect against surges.

Is this normal? A defect? I don't trust Panasonic to give me a straight answer.
Thx.

Trying to determine if the VGA input on the 600 is a big plus or not, and whether I can use the 60 with my old laptop that has no DVI out. I want to be able to surf the net and do slideshows using the pc and get a shart picture.

After searching these threads for an hour I've got the following summary:
1) PCs work just fine on the 60 using DVI--HDMI cable, although a little fuzzy because it does not match native resolution exactly and your driver will need the ability to correct over/underscan to get it to fill screen correctly
2) DVI--HDMI route produces a better image than VGA
3) I probably need the 600 with its VGA input if I want to use my old laptop at all, or I need to get a better computer sooner than planned

Does anyone disagree with these three points, especially #2 where the quality is better with DVI--HDMI than with VGA? If so, why would anyone use the VGA and why would it be in the step up 600 model?

Anything else to add regarding use of PCs on 60 that I left out?

New Nvidia drivers and cards work well with the PX60U with DVI out. I do not know if there are probelms with other cards. Before you chose you might check if you do not have an NVIDIA card.

BTW

HDTV (with all aspects optimized) via my computer via DVI looks better than HDTV via the tuner on the set.

Joel

I have had a professional calibration from Gregg Loewen. I personally see a huge difference in black levels. Before the calibration the blacks often looked closer to grey. Now I can see details in the darker areas and the blacks to me almost rival what I use to see on CRT Tubes.

Sounds good.

I'm really looking forward to a pro-calibration on my 50PX60.

That's what I'm after, more detail/grey-scale in the "dark" areas.
And, of course, any improvement in PQ is worth the price.

Sometimes, the very dark all blend into black.

Although I should mention I haven't noticed it lately.

Break-in? FW update? who knows.

Anymore Pro-Cal's on 60's-600's?

Opinions, thoughts?

The DVR has two tuners and comes with two remotes. One is IR, one if RF. I use the RF one in the bedroom.

As for Black Level Enhancement, I like On/Dark better then Off/Light. But I don't know technically what processing is going on.

When set to "Dark" you'll lose shadow details.

Test it on the Letterman, since he like to wear dark suits. Switch between the two settings and judge it for yourself.

When set to "Dark" you'll lose shadow details.

Test it on the Letterman, since he like to wear dark suits. Switch between the two settings and judge it for yourself.

Nevertheless, the "dark" setting looks most real to me. For example I'm sitting in a lit room and across the room is a dark blue coat on a rack. I can't see any shadow details in it either. It looks all one color, just like a dark suit sometimes will on the TV using the "dark" setting. I spent a considerable amount of time switching between the two settings (and annoying the heck out of my wife). Yes, with the light setting you can see "more" in the dark areas, but I decided "dark" looked better and more real when I compared what I see on the screen with what I see when I look around my house. Of course, all depends on alot of other settings. Hopefully, I'll find some time today to put in one of those calibration DVDs and make some adjustments to other settings and I may change my mind.

I think the Black level Light or Dark control adjusts the same setting as the Brightness control, i.e., the black level. You can make either the Light or Dark setting look the same as the other by adjusting the Brightness. It think the only reason this setting is there is to easily switch between the two reference zero black levels that are in common use: 0 IRE and +7.5 IRE (see here: http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-level-dvd-7.5-ire-0-ntsc-part-2.htm)

On the industrial models, there's a numeric setting for Black Level so that you can match it more precisely to the input source.

So is dark =0 () IRE) or 7.5? (16 IRE)

What about the high end of the contrast 255 or 235 IRE?

Is there a way in a 60 U to do the proper 0-255 from a computer source or must one make sure the comouter is outputting 16-235.

joel

anyone get 1366x768 from a computer using DVI to HDMI cables on a 50PX60U?
i've been having trouble, it seems to only like 1280x720 and the screen edges are cut off...
anyone??

The Cable Guy (TWC) just left, following a failed attempt at installing a CableCard into my 50PX600. A screen appears saying that the card is "searching for channel information", but nothing else happens. He suggested an incompatibility between the tv and the Scientific Atlanta CableCard. Anyone out there have this combo? But, the main reason for this post is that during the card installation there is a requirement (Panasonic) to Reset the tv prior to card installation. For some reason, the set will not reset...even after being unplugged for 20 minutes?? I have always been able to perform a reset by holding down the pwr button or by unplugging...but no joy today. Any suggestions? I have the latest tuner firmware - 1.76.

TIA

Jon in SC

So is dark =0 () IRE) or 7.5? (16 IRE)

What about the high end of the contrast 255 or 235 IRE?

Is there a way in a 60 U to do the proper 0-255 from a computer source or must one make sure the comouter is outputting 16-235.

joel

Since dark shades appear lighter with the Black Level setting on Light, that would indicate that it's intended to be the "zero black level = 0 IRE" setting. Choosing Dark makes everything appear darker, which is probably intended to be equivalent to moving the zero level up to +7.5 IRE. That works for my DVD player, for example - if my Motorola satellite receiver input is set to Light, the DVD player input has to be set to Dark to have the same appearance (my DVD player doesn't have an "enhanced black level" setting, so it probably outputs black level zero = +7.5 IRE).

As for the computer input, put up a grey scale and adjust the Brightness setting until black appears black and the next level up appears distinguishably lighter.

The Cable Guy (TWC) just left, following a failed attempt at installing a CableCard into my 50PX600. A screen appears saying that the card is "searching for channel information", but nothing else happens. He suggested an incompatibility between the tv and the Scientific Atlanta CableCard. Anyone out there have this combo? But, the main reason for this post is that during the card installation there is a requirement (Panasonic) to Reset the tv prior to card installation. For some reason, the set will not reset...even after being unplugged for 20 minutes?? I have always been able to perform a reset by holding down the pwr button or by unplugging...but no joy today. Any suggestions? I have the latest tuner firmware - 1.76.

TIA

Jon in SC

Jon,
You might want to consider contacting the Panny Consierge (I know, the male stereotype does not call for assistance, :eek: BUT), there is a reset code to be typed in using the front panel and the remote. This is a code used by the "service reps" sent out by Panasonic.

After I got my set in early August, I had to do a 'reset' to default settings because of a problem with the TV Guide. Bottom line, I was glad I called. They gave me the codes (but I forgot them), and the problem was solved. Also not sure if the firmware update will be effected or not (--my ignorance in this matter).

..Mark

So is dark =0 () IRE) or 7.5? (16 IRE)

What about the high end of the contrast 255 or 235 IRE?

Is there a way in a 60 U to do the proper 0-255 from a computer source or must one make sure the comouter is outputting 16-235.

joel
I think that dark is 0 ire and light is 7.5 ire. However, you can determine wheter you should have the setting to dark or light just by chaning the setting to dark on your source with a paused picture if you can and see if having it set to dark crushs details in darker areas. If it does then you should have it on light, if it doesn't and just makes the dark areas darker with no lose in details then you should keep it at dark if you prefer the picture better with dark on.

do the card settings allow you to adjust for overscan? if so you may be able to resolve the edge issues.

even if you pass in 1366x768, the panny does not allow you to do a pixel-to-pixel mapping though.

anyone get 1366x768 from a computer using DVI to HDMI cables on a 50PX60U?
i've been having trouble, it seems to only like 1280x720 and the screen edges are cut off...
anyone??

hello,
I have the 50px60u and was wondering if there is a way to stretch the picture when looking at pictures via the SD slot? Them seem pretty small.

Thank you

Just got the 37PX60U yesterday for my family room and I must say ....WOW I am totally pleased with the picture quality in HD. (I replaced a non HD - 32" Sony WEGA CRT).

I am in the "break-In stage" and am running it at lower brightness and contrast for 100 hrs.. But occasionally have notched the settings up and was blown away at the crispness and pristine PQ in HD and DVD. Even the SD looked very good. But I have been mostly watching HD so far.

With that said..... I was originally in the market for a LCD (like the 37" LG, Sharp or Toshiba) which would have fit my 38" wide cabinet as well. But I "popped" for the Panny based on reviews here on the PQ and the nice array of inputs etc (2 HDMI) etc. Indecently, at first I was turned off by the aesthetics of the TV case's color (silver case and stand)... BUT after putting it in my dark cherrywood stand.. I am ok with the TV's cabinet and the contrast of the silver color TV against the darker wood. (Black would have been my preference but I was not going to choose set based on color).

Question #1: I have a Time Warner HD DVR and wanted to know what setting to use for the output ~ 480i or 720p or 1080i (sorry of this is a dumb question)

Lastly... I have one other issue with ambient light. The room has a window which is directly opposite the Plasma. So during the day you can see the reflection of the blinds in the TV screen. SO now I am wondering whether I should exchange Plasma for LCD (just becasue of this issue)...... Or live with it.

In the evenings this is not a problem and I do 90 % of my TV/video watching during the evening.

Any thoughts...

Thanks

Just got the 37PX60U yesterday for my family room and I must say ....WOW I am totally pleased with the picture quality in HD. (I replaced a non HD - 32" Sony WEGA CRT).

I am in the "break-In stage" and am running it at lower brightness and contrast for 100 hrs.. But occasionally have notched the settings up and was blown away at the crispness and pristine PQ in HD and DVD. Even the SD looked very good. But I have been mostly watching HD so far.

With that said..... I was originally in the market for a LCD (like the 37" LG, Sharp or Toshiba) which would have fit my 38" wide cabinet as well. But I "popped" for the Panny based on reviews here on the PQ and the nice array of inputs etc (2 HDMI) etc. Indecently, at first I was turned off by the aesthetics of the TV case's color (silver case and stand)... BUT after putting it in my dark cherrywood stand.. I am ok with the TV's cabinet and the contrast of the silver color TV against the darker wood. (Black would have been my preference but I was not going to choose set based on color).

Question #1: I have a Time Warner HD DVR and wanted to know what setting to use for the output ~ 480i or 720p or 1080i (sorry of this is a dumb question)

Lastly... I have one other issue with ambient light. The room has a window which is directly opposite the Plasma. So during the day you can see the reflection of the blinds in the TV screen. SO now I am wondering whether I should exchange Plasma for LCD (just becasue of this issue)...... Or live with it.

In the evenings this is not a problem and I do 90 % of my TV/video watching during the evening.

Any thoughts...

Thanks

Get some dark blinds or curtains for the windows and keep the Panasonic plasma

ha... The curtains are something to consider!

I "do" enjoy the plasma and it is still only at 50% settings (breaking in).

Just got the 37PX60U yesterday for my family room and I must say ....WOW I am totally pleased with the picture quality in HD. (I replaced a non HD - 32" Sony WEGA CRT).

I am in the "break-In stage" and am running it at lower brightness and contrast for 100 hrs.. But occasionally have notched the settings up and was blown away at the crispness and pristine PQ in HD and DVD. Even the SD looked very good. But I have been mostly watching HD so far.

With that said..... I was originally in the market for a LCD (like the 37" LG, Sharp or Toshiba) which would have fit my 38" wide cabinet as well. But I "popped" for the Panny based on reviews here on the PQ and the nice array of inputs etc (2 HDMI) etc. Indecently, at first I was turned off by the aesthetics of the TV case's color (silver case and stand)... BUT after putting it in my dark cherrywood stand.. I am ok with the TV's cabinet and the contrast of the silver color TV against the darker wood. (Black would have been my preference but I was not going to choose set based on color).

Question #1: I have a Time Warner HD DVR and wanted to know what setting to use for the output ~ 480i or 720p or 1080i (sorry of this is a dumb question)

Lastly... I have one other issue with ambient light. The room has a window which is directly opposite the Plasma. So during the day you can see the reflection of the blinds in the TV screen. SO now I am wondering whether I should exchange Plasma for LCD (just becasue of this issue)...... Or live with it.

In the evenings this is not a problem and I do 90 % of my TV/video watching during the evening.

Any thoughts...

Thanks

I agree with FAiello....it would have to be a lot more than 10% daytime viewing for me with your light situation for me to return my Panasonic plasma...

I set my cable box to 720p...I watch a lot of sports so 720p looks better than 1080i...in my opinion.

yeah... I guess the more I thought about it the more absurd it sounds.

I am not usually home during the day... just that I was off today and was fiddling with my "toy" and setting up the sound system.

The PQ looks "tons" better than it did in any of the stores. I have the HD feed coming in via component .. since my HDMI cable was ordered today! So I will be interested to see the difference once I hook up HDMI.

Thanks for the 720P recommendation... will switch between them and see for myself.

Lastly... I have one other issue with ambient light. The room has a window which is directly opposite the Plasma. So during the day you can see the reflection of the blinds in the TV screen. SO now I am wondering whether I should exchange Plasma for LCD (just becasue of this issue)...... Or live with it.


This might be a problem when we have longer days next summer.

I had to go get thick curtains - I had the same problem.

Question #1: I have a Time Warner HD DVR and wanted to know what setting to use for the output ~ 480i or 720p or 1080i (sorry of this is a dumb question)


This is not a dumb question.

Do you have two output settings? One for SD (480i) and one for HD?

The Comcast Motorola 3412 or 6412 have two settings.

For SD (480i), you can chose to output 480i or upscale to 720p or 1080i.

For HD content, you have to chose between 720p and 1080i. If you chose 720p, even 1080i is scaled to 720p and vice versa.

The output you are talking about - is it just for SD or for both?

The inside of your 37/42/50PX60U.
I think the brown PCB, in the picture, makes the low-hum/buzzing-noise (if volume is turned down and you listen from within 6-12 inches from TV).

anyone get 1366x768 from a computer using DVI to HDMI cables on a 50PX60U?
i've been having trouble, it seems to only like 1280x720 and the screen edges are cut off...
anyone??

That sounds like cut off due to overscan.
The Panasonic models don't seem to offer any overscan adjustment (horizontal/vertical size and position settings) even in the service menu.

What other consumer HD plasma TV manufacturers do offer overscan adjustment on their current models I wonder?

That sounds like cut off due to overscan.
The Panasonic models don't seem to offer any overscan adjustment (horizontal/vertical size and position settings) even in the service menu.


The 600u has overscan adjustments for PC input mode. I don't have the set but these settings are listed in the manual. I wonder if anyone managed to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on 600u ?

thanks guys... my display settings do have a overscan check box, with it unchecked, it just displays the 1280x720 in the middle of the screen. damn... i guess i'll have to live with the edges getting cut off! oh well

The 600u has overscan adjustments for PC input mode. I don't have the set but these settings are listed in the manual. I wonder if anyone managed to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on 600u ?

Yes, kind'a -- but just for the 65" 1080P version using an HDMI input as shown here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8609427&&#post8609427).

The 600u has overscan adjustments for PC input mode. I don't have the set but these settings are listed in the manual. I wonder if anyone managed to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on 600u ?

You cannot get 1:1 pixel mapping on the *60U. Every signal passes through the formatter/scaler. You cannot bypass that like you can on LCD TV displays or some other plasmas.

Also, page 42 of the manual under the "Technical Information - HDMI connection" says:

Caution
Use with a PC is not assumed.
All signals are reformatted before being displayed on the screen.

How do I turn down the side bar display? I can see where this is an option but I can not highlight it or select it to adjust the intensity. It is grayed out.
Thanks,


50px60u

Yesterday, while playing the break-in DVD (displaying solid color fields) I noticed, what looked like couple of dead-pixels (from 1-2 feet distance at an angle), on my 42px60u. After close inspection I noticed that pixels only looked dead while viewed for an angle, i.e. standing to the right or left of TV and 150-180 degree angle, and appeared more obvious in green color-field. But from normal viewing angle there was nothing, no dead pixels, not even at 4-8 inches viewing distance. I was little confused at first, but then I noticed what looked like a piece of dirt on the PDP glass (NOTE: the front glass screen on Plasma TV is just a protective glass screen to protect the real PDP glass which is located approx. 1cm away from front glass). I turned the TV off I looked at the PDP panel using a flashlight and noticed that PDP had 3-4 spots less that 1mm across. The spots looked like dried up liquid splash, like from coffee, coke, etc., as if someone had opened a soda-can next to PDP and couple of droplets splattered across PDP and then dried up.

I am not going to return the TV for this, as it does not affect my TV viewing, and it is not a case of dead-pixels, but this makes me wonder about quality control at panasonic assembly line.

Has anyone else seen something like this?

I am thinking may be I should ask Panasonic to send someone to clean up the TV, do you think they will do it?

How do I turn down the side bar display? I can see where this is an option but I can not highlight it or select it to adjust the intensity. It is grayed out.
Thanks,


50px60u

I believe you have to actually be viewing it in that mode and then the option will be available.

This is not a dumb question.

Do you have two output settings? One for SD (480i) and one for HD?

The Comcast Motorola 3412 or 6412 have two settings.

For SD (480i), you can chose to output 480i or upscale to 720p or 1080i.

For HD content, you have to chose between 720p and 1080i. If you chose 720p, even 1080i is scaled to 720p and vice versa.

The output you are talking about - is it just for SD or for both?

I didnt know it had 2 settings. I have a 3412 STB. Is the SD setting the "stretch" setting? I use 1080i and stretch.

The later Nvidia drivers have an adjustment that handlles the overscan issue very well with their 6600 and later cards with DVI out and an HDMI convert.. Once adjusted the desktop is fine on the set. In addtion after this is done the resolution seems a lot clearer. Display Mate tests are all perfect.

Joel

Yes, kind'a -- but just for the 65" 1080P version using an HDMI input as shown here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8609427&&#post8609427).

what are these then ? This is a snapshot from 600u series manual which is freely downloadable from the Panasonic website.
I'm talking about PC (VGA) input here. Which is present on 600u models.
I'm looking to get one of them and PC connectivity is important to me. This is why I want to know if you can get 1:1 on 600u

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4981/600ure6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yesterday, while playing the break-in DVD (displaying solid color fields) I noticed, what looked like couple of dead-pixels (from 1-2 feet distance at an angle), on my 42px60u. After close inspection I noticed that pixels only looked dead while viewed for an angle, i.e. standing to the right or left of TV and 150-180 degree angle, and appeared more obvious in green color-field. But from normal viewing angle there was nothing, no dead pixels, not even at 4-8 inches viewing distance. I was little confused at first, but then I noticed what looked like a piece of dirt on the PDP glass (NOTE: the front glass screen on Plasma TV is just a protective glass screen to protect the real PDP glass which is located approx. 1cm away from front glass). I turned the TV off I looked at the PDP panel using a flashlight and noticed that PDP had 3-4 spots less that 1mm across. The spots looked like dried up liquid splash, like from coffee, coke, etc., as if someone had opened a soda-can next to PDP and couple of droplets splattered across PDP and then dried up.

I am not going to return the TV for this, as it does not affect my TV viewing, and it is not a case of dead-pixels, but this makes me wonder about quality control at panasonic assembly line.

Has anyone else seen something like this?

I am thinking may be I should ask Panasonic to send someone to clean up the TV, do you think they will do it?



I found what sounds like the same thing on my 60U. It appeared on a white field of snow, a small greenish area that seemed to shimmer.. A cold shiver went up my spine-was this the dreaded dead pixel that I keep hearing about?-that I thought only affected LCD's.. It turned out to be some sort of pasty liquid and I was able to get it off using an old Tee shirt without leaving any residue. I certainly don't remember spilling anything on the plasma. I've had the set since July and just noticed it a few days ago.

what are these then ? This is a snapshot from 600u series manual which is freely downloadable from the Panasonic website.
I'm talking about PC (VGA) input here. Which is present on 600u models.


I'm not using the PC input. I'm using DVI from the computer into the HDMI #3 input.

The PC input is brain dead.

I found what sounds like the same thing on my 60U. It appeared on a white field of snow, a small greenish area that seemed to shimmer.........

But, at least in your case, the liquid/spot/splatter was on the outside front protective glass surface. In my case the dried-up tiny droplets are on the PDP glass.

The TV has three glass surfaces which can potentially have visible dust/dirt/spots on it. The first one is the outside front protective glass screen, which can be cleaned by the customer. The second one is the inside surface of front protective screen, and the third one is the PDP glass surface. Both, second and the third, can not be cleaned by customers. To clean those two surfaces you have to disassemble TV frame. So, unless the warranty is expired, this is not a DIY project (look at the attached picture).

But, at least in your case, the liquid/spot/splatter was on the outside front protective glass surface. In my case the dried-up tiny droplets are on the PDP glass.

The TV has three glass surfaces which can potentially have visible dust/dirt/spots on it. The first one is the outside front protective glass screen, which can be cleaned by the customer. The second one is the inside surface of front protective screen, and the third one is the PDP glass surface. Both, second and the third, can not be cleaned by customers. To clean those two surfaces you have to disassemble TV frame. So, unless the warranty is expired, this is not a DIY project (look at the attached picture).


If it's still under the warranty, it looks like that's something that could be done "in home" I would think. the mystery is how the spot got there. good luck

Anybody got a clue what those 2 bright light the size of a small LED on
on my 42px6u are? they are located on the upper right hand side in
between the bezel and the main viewing area are.

Quick question. I have a 42px600 hooked up to a SA 8300 HD box via HDMI cable. Whenever I check the surround sound function in the Audio menu, it is always greyed our and inaccessible. Why is this?

I have a 600u connected to my laptop. I don't know if it is one to one pixel maping but the tv allows you to adjust the pc input to get the right picture size. Looks great.

okay, I just bought an LCD and hate it. I really want to go with a Panny 42" 60u. However, right now I have everything running through my PC. I will not use the Panny as my primary monitor, but my OTA HD will be run through Media Center, as well as 300 gigs of HD content. I know I have a advanced enough card since I've run this setup with my old DLP and my LCD.

I know that normal everyday tasks will look stretched due to the resolution of the TV, but when I watch a 720p movie or something on an HD channel, will I still get the same high quality picture or will it be distorted in some way??

BTW, I obviously will be running this through a DVI to HDMI cable and am used to losing a bit of the picture around the edges already.

Quick question. I have a 42px600 hooked up to a SA 8300 HD box via HDMI cable. Whenever I check the surround sound function in the Audio menu, it is always greyed our and inaccessible. Why is this?

Do you have the VIVA/BBE 3D sound option checked? If that is checked than the two separate options underneath it are greyed out.

Hi-

On the stretch modes, is there one that takes the letterboxed, 16:9 picture from a 4:3 SD TV signal and zoom in to make it fit the 16:9 plasma screen? I believe "Just" does not do that.

Thanks,

I am considering either the 50" 600U or the Pioneer 5070. I did some research on the Panny and some users have reported floating black levels (indicating poor dc restoration) on older models of the Panny's.

I checked reviews of the 42" 60U on CNET and they write:

"However, the set floats black, which means blacks pump or fluctuate slightly, becoming darker or lighter depending on how much bright content is in a given scene. "

CNET reports this problem is fixed on the commercial 9U's.

Is this a problem with the 600U series? I had this issue with a Hitachi crt a few years back and it drove me crazy. I finally returned that tv, and I don't want to have to go through it again on a new plasma. The Pioneer 5070 doesn't have this problem, so maybe I should lean towards purchasing that.

I am considering either the 50" 600U or the Pioneer 5070. I did some research on the Panny and some users have reported floating black levels (indicating poor dc restoration) on older models of the Panny's.


Actually, on plasmas it's not really a dc restoration issue, like with CRTs. It's "dynamic contrast" and is actually considered a "feature" on the display... I had a Maxent that had a really poooooor implementation of this "feature" and I had to get rid of it. I picked up a 60U and it's great! I do admit that there is a very slight auto contrast/dynamic contrast that I verified with test patterns, but I really can't see it when I'm watching anything! Maybe the Maxent was a really, really poor implementation of it, but it got extremely annoying. I don't notice it at all on my Panasonic and I got good at noticing it, believe me!

Hi-

On the stretch modes, is there one that takes the letterboxed, 16:9 picture from a 4:3 SD TV signal and zoom in to make it fit the 16:9 plasma screen? I believe "Just" does not do that.

Thanks,

Zoom mode does that nicely.

okay, I just bought an LCD and hate it. I really want to go with a Panny 42" 60u. However, right now I have everything running through my PC. I will not use the Panny as my primary monitor, but my OTA HD will be run through Media Center, as well as 300 gigs of HD content. I know I have a advanced enough card since I've run this setup with my old DLP and my LCD.

I know that normal everyday tasks will look stretched due to the resolution of the TV, but when I watch a 720p movie or something on an HD channel, will I still get the same high quality picture or will it be distorted in some way??

BTW, I obviously will be running this through a DVI to HDMI cable and am used to losing a bit of the picture around the edges already.

The native resolution of the 42-inch panel is 1024 x 768. The PC input can be up to 1388 x 768. You can either stretch the PC input to fill the panel and take advantage of the full resolution, or set the Aspect to 4:3 for a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio with 4:3 input, in which case you will have sidebars.

If you can set your PC graphics card to output 1388 x 768, that's probably the best choice. The aspect ratio will be right, and you'll be using the full native resolution of the panel. Details like text may look a little bit fuzzy when you look close since you're showing 1388 input resampled to fit in 1024 actual pixels, but it's the best that can be done.

The alternative is to set your PC graphics card to output 1024 x 768 and stretch to fill the screen. That will give you native resolution, but some horizontal distortion. It probably won't bother you with the PC desktop, and there are many video display programs where you can specify the screen aspect ratio to pre-correct for the distortion in the video playback.

I didnt know it had 2 settings. I have a 3412 STB. Is the SD setting the "stretch" setting? I use 1080i and stretch.

The setup details are here:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup

The "YPbPr Output" setting determines how your HD is output (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i).

The "4:3 Override" setting determines how you SD is output (OFF, 480i, 480p, STRECH)

So, yes, the SD setting in your DVR is set to "STRECH". However, if you set it to 480i, the DVR will not upconvert SD to 1080i, and your panny will get a chance to upconvert it from 480i to it's native resolution. And hopefully the panny has a better upconvertor than the 3412.

Since you have set it to "STRECH", your DVR first converts 480i to 1080i (with whatever scaler it has), then your TV converts it from 1080i to it's native resolution.

Tried taking my receipt for my one month old Panny 50X6U to C__co for the $2__ discount that is offered online, but they wouldn't honor it. They said it is clearly stated that it is for online purchases only.

I had quite the opposite experience. A week after I bought my set, I noticed the rebate. I went in with my receipt and I was barely able to explain the situation before they handed me $200 in cash. In retrospect, I guess it should have been $200 plus tax, but at this point I really don't care!

I took the 37px60u back to Circuit City today and exchanged it (because of the gradient/posterization/pixel problems described earlier). What a disappointment! Though CC was great, the new set is even worse. Now, almost every line between grades of color are full of flashing red pixels. There are often wide bands of red pixels moving around on the screen. Even during the intitial channel scan, as the tuner was going through the channels the gray background was full of intermingling red pixels. Peoples faces often seem to have these red lines outlining their features.

This set is going back asap. I'm starting question the quality of this model. I'm going to try one more time, if that doesn't do it, it will be refund time and a totally different TV.

The native resolution of the 42-inch panel is 1024 x 768. The PC input can be up to 1388 x 768. You can either stretch the PC input to fill the panel and take advantage of the full resolution, or set the Aspect to 4:3 for a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio with 4:3 input, in which case you will have sidebars.

If you can set your PC graphics card to output 1388 x 768, that's probably the best choice. The aspect ratio will be right, and you'll be using the full native resolution of the panel. Details like text may look a little bit fuzzy when you look close since you're showing 1388 input resampled to fit in 1024 actual pixels, but it's the best that can be done.

The alternative is to set your PC graphics card to output 1024 x 768 and stretch to fill the screen. That will give you native resolution, but some horizontal distortion. It probably won't bother you with the PC desktop, and there are many video display programs where you can specify the screen aspect ratio to pre-correct for the distortion in the video playback.

Thank you very much. That is the most comprehensive answer I've received. I'm gonna pick up the TV this weekend.

Do you have the VIVA/BBE 3D sound option checked? If that is checked than the two separate options underneath it are greyed out.

Thank you for the response. Yes, i did have the VIVA/BBE 3D option checked. Now that I have unchecked the option, the other options are available. One more question. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

I took the 37px60u back to Circuit City today and exchanged it (because of the.............

It appears that this is something new. Most people posting on this thread/forum are owner of PX60U models, and I don't see many repots of this problem. I think the problem is more common in models manufactured in last couple of months. What is the Mfg. date of your new set? Also call Panasonic and complain about the last and the new TV. I have found another co-worker who faced the same problem. He went through 3 replacements, and his forth set, even though that is also Mfgd in August, is problem-free (no posterization and very minor flashing-pixel problem in cinema-mode, even less than mine).

Are other people buying these models (Mfgd in August or later) seeing the similar issues?

Are other people buying these models (Mfgd in August or later) seeing the similar issues?

Nope! :cool:

It appears that this is something new. Most people posting on this thread/forum are owner of PX60U models, and I don't see many repots of this problem. I think the problem is more common in models manufactured in last couple of months. What is the Mfg. date of your new set? Also call Panasonic and complain about the last and the new TV. I have found another co-worker who faced the same problem. He went through 3 replacements, and his forth set, even though that is also Mfgd in August, is problem-free (no posterization and very minor flashing-pixel problem in cinema-mode, even less than mine).

Are other people buying these models (Mfgd in August or later) seeing the similar issues?

The first set was manufactured in August, the second one was in September.

Btw, 3 replacements? I've never had to deal with a situation like this before. Do the regular chains, like CC, accept this without causing any grief?

I emailed Panasonic, and they called me back this afternoon, first a customer service person, then a technician. Of course, they had never heard of these problems before (and they've sold thousands of these sets). I told the tech that I knew of at least some people that have had similar experience, but he dismissed it as "one person here and there". They seemed to want to go the service route again, but I told them no way, not after the waste of time that was with the first set. The set will go back to CC this weekend.

I told them it's too bad, this model is perfect for my room and fits like a glove in my entertainment center. Any other model on the market of similar size will not fit, any larger and I need to replace the furniture as well. If the next couple of replacements does not work out, I'll probably go with a 42" of some sort, and do some major surgery to my TV room.....

I emailed Panasonic, and they called me back this afternoon, first a customer service person, then a technician. Of course, they had never heard of these problems before (and they've sold thousands of these sets). I told the tech that I knew of at least some people that have had similar experience, but he dismissed it as "one person here and there". They seemed to want to go the service route again, but I told them no way, not after the waste of time that was with the first set. The set will go back to CC this weekend.


I'm confused, what did you expect to get out of contacting them? :confused:

I'm confused, what did you expect to get out of contacting them? :confused:

As kjm5 suggested, to let them know about the problems I've seen with the TVs. To vent some frustration. I just sent them an email. They decided to call me to get more details about the problems. If that just raises the awareness of the people at Panasonic just a tad, it's worth it. Also I know from experience (I work at a major computer company) that call data is usually the first indicator for a company that something is wrong with a product. Returns data come in much, much later.

As kjm5 suggested, to let them know about the problems I've seen with the TVs. ...............

It's good that you reported the problem. I called them too (after my first TV set exhibited excessive posterization, false contouring, & flashing pixels). My co-worker did the same thing, but he only called once (with his last bad one). I think one mistake we both did, and may be you can avoid it, was not asking their service tech to come home and look at the problem. You, like us, have 30 days to swap this TV, so if Panasonic tech is willing to come and look at the problem, especially within next couple of days, then call them. Don't let them take the TV. At least they will observe the problem symptoms. Then you can return and/or swap TV.

Like you, my co-worker also swapped 3 times because 42PX60U is the only TV which fits his Entertainment unit (41"). BTW he bought his set from Fry's Electronics and didn't have any problem returning it 3 times.

any more news on the firmware update for the 60u's??
i'm about to buy a sd card later today, i wanna make sure it's worth doing! :)

So is dark =0 () IRE) or 7.5? (16 IRE)

What about the high end of the contrast 255 or 235 IRE?

Is there a way in a 60 U to do the proper 0-255 from a computer source or must one make sure the comouter is outputting 16-235.

joel

Dark is "0" IRE, which is equal to "Digital 16" What your computer is actually putting out is dependant on the software program you're using (e.g., TheaterTek, PowerDVD, etc., otherwise, on the desktop Black would be "Digital "0"), the 60U (unlike the 600U) treats everything input as though Black is "Digital 16" if black is set to "0" IRE.

White should be "Digital 235".

Has anyone else noticed that the settings on the Advanced Picture menu (i.e., the things like Black Level and Noise Reduction) are independent per input? If I set the Black Level to Dark and MPEG Noise Reduction to On for the Component 1 input (DVD), it doesn't affect the same settings for the HDMI1 input, even though both are set to Picture mode Standard.

Don't do the firmware upgrade, if it "ain't broke don't fix it". If your set does not exibit the problem, the upgrade is not for you. I did it and it screwed up my new plasma, after the upgrade to 1.25 and after every known adjustment, the tv had terrible tint problems.

It's good that you reported the problem. I called them too (after my first TV set exhibited excessive posterization, false contouring, & flashing pixels). My co-worker did the same thing, but he only called once (with his last bad one). I think one mistake we both did, and may be you can avoid it, was not asking their service tech to come home and look at the problem. You, like us, have 30 days to swap this TV, so if Panasonic tech is willing to come and look at the problem, especially within next couple of days, then call them. Don't let them take the TV. At least they will observe the problem symptoms. Then you can return and/or swap TV.

Like you, my co-worker also swapped 3 times because 42PX60U is the only TV which fits his Entertainment unit (41"). BTW he bought his set from Fry's Electronics and didn't have any problem returning it 3 times.

I did have service techs at home to look at the first set. I wasn't too impressed with them. Panasonic just contracts their service to local, authorized service centers, they are not Panasonic reps. The first guy just wanted to upgrade the firmware (which I had already done myself). What almost threw me into a laughing fit was when after the firmware "upgrade" was done, he said, "see, your set is much brighter now" (it had returned back to the Vivid default setting).

Don't do the firmware upgrade, if it "ain't broke don't fix it". If your set does not exibit the problem, the upgrade is not for you. I did it and it screwed up my new plasma, after the upgrade to 1.25 and after every known adjustment, the tv had terrible tint problems.

It didn't "screw up" mine, or any other of the users here, IIRC.

Has anyone else noticed that the settings on the Advanced Picture menu (i.e., the things like Black Level and Noise Reduction) are independent per input? If I set the Black Level to Dark and MPEG Noise Reduction to On for the Component 1 input (DVD), it doesn't affect the same settings for the HDMI1 input, even though both are set to Picture mode Standard.

I think this is a good thing. For example, if you want noise reduction on a certain setting for broadcast HD or SD signals, and then a separate setting without noise reduction for DVDs, etc. It is intuitive, as these settings are within the pre-set menu. If it were in the main setup menu, then it would be odd.

I took the 37px60u back to CC today. After a bit back and forth (they couldn't believe the 2nd set also had issues) they decided to bring out a new set and hook it up in the store. I was a bit apprehensive, as the store HD feed is pretty bad. And true enough, the new set looked pretty good with their crummy feed. I adjusted settings and stared at it for probably 30 minutes trying to find flaws, but couldn't see anything. So I asked them to hook up a DVD player.

They did (after first wanting to use a composite cable instead of component!), and within 5 minutes I could see posterization artifacts, especially the red "veiny" lines that sometimes show up between color gradients. I pointed this out to the store director, who at this point was out there watching it all.

So I told him no way I am taking this set. It was way better than the 2nd set, probably along the lines of the first set I had at home. I asked if I could hook the DVD player up to some of the other sets. I hooked it up to a 58px60u, and the difference was huge. The picture was stable, clean and artifact free. 58" is way too big and WAY too expensive, so I asked him if he could bring a 50" out from the warehouse, and if that was as clean as the 58", I would take it. They got one out and hooked it up, and it was just as good as the 58". None of the artifacts from the 37" was there. I spent around 20 minutes staring at the screen up close, 1 foot away, and didn't see any artifacts at all. So that's the TV that came home with me.

Now I have to completely reorganize my TV room, take the entertainment center out and put in a TV stand instead. This is going to be a full weekend project, but that's the way it goes......

you'll be much happier with the 50"!!

So that's the TV that came home with me.

Now I have to completely reorganize my TV room, take the entertainment center out and put in a TV stand instead. This is going to be a full weekend project, but that's the way it goes......

That's the set that I have. It'll take a weekend, but it's worth it! :D

Interesting... I wonder if there's some flaw in the processing specific to the 37" set? Samundsen, did you ever try a 42"?

The 37" has a different resolution (1024x720) than either the 42" (1024x768) or 50" (1366x768), so there has to be some difference in the math, maybe enough to introduce some artifacts.

Hope you're pleased with your new set, after the room renos!

I am probably going to get a TH-42PX60U pretty soon.

What is the fastest way to identify these weird problems with the newly manufactured sets? What should I be looking for?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I just got my 37PX60U, and I want to mount it with a cantilever to get it away from the wall. I was thinking about getting the Sanus VMAA26b to pull that off, but I'm worried about how that mounts to the pack of the TV.

There are four big hole (with plastic plugs) on the back of the TV where I assume Panny wants you to attach a mount. Are these regular bolt holes with a threaded ends, or do you need some stuff from panasonic to make them work?

Has anyone had their TH-50PX60U ISF calibrated?

What are the best picture settings for this TV? Anyone want to share their ISF settings?

I found some settings on the *******************.com website, and I'm curious what others are using.

Steve

There are four big hole (with plastic plugs) on the back of the TV where I assume Panny wants you to attach a mount. Are these regular bolt holes with a threaded ends, or do you need some stuff from panasonic to make them work?

Yep, that's where they go. The Sanus mount will come with the right bolts to stick right in there! :)

Interesting... I wonder if there's some flaw in the processing specific to the 37" set? Samundsen, did you ever try a 42"?

The 37" has a different resolution (1024x720) than either the 42" (1024x768) or 50" (1366x768), so there has to be some difference in the math, maybe enough to introduce some artifacts.

Hope you're pleased with your new set, after the room renos!

No, I didn't try the 42". The 42" on display was mounted up on a wall, and they said it would be quite a hassle to hook that up to the DVD player I was using for testing. And I figured, if I was going to have to redo my room anyway, I'd just go for a larger set. I had the resolution issue in mind when I made the decision as well, realizing that the 50" and above had a different resolution than the smaller models (1388 vs 1024). I didn't realize there was a difference between the 37" and the 42" resolutions though. Looking at their web site now, you are correct, it's 720 vs 768.

I'm right in the middle of redoing the room now, just moved the big entertainment center out after taking it apart, installing all my components into a smaller stand. Increased the viewing distance by a couple of feet by changing which wall everything will be up against. My back's hurting.... this better be worth it... :)

any more news on the firmware update for the 60u's??
i'm about to buy a sd card later today, i wanna make sure it's worth doing! :)

Did the FW upgrade everything went fine.

The main improvement is black levels.

The TV and all my components are now hooked up, and I've had a chance to test it out in a proper environment, and I have the say, the difference between the 37" and the 50" is night and day. The picture on the 50" is just rock solid. I see none of the artifacts from before, not a single one. Even when in Windows (computer hooked up through DVI-HDMI running BeyondTV), the backgrounds are completely clean and stable. With the 37" there was a lot of grain, especially on grey dialog boxes and white backgrounds. With the 50", there is no grain at all.

The ultimate artifact test that I've been using.... the last episode of Jericho in HD, there are several scenes about halfway in, inside the burning library. There is a lot going on in those scenes, lots of smoke whirling around, and lots of fast movements. The 37" (both the sets I had at home) totally broke down trying to render this. The picture was just crazy with artifacts (posterization, red blobs on faces, lots of vibrating pixels in red). With the 50" it all good, all clean, everything you see is in the source material (checked playing back on other computers).

The TV and all my components are now hooked up, and I've had a chance to test it out in a proper environment, and I have the say, the difference between the 37" and the 50" is night and day. The picture on the 50" is just rock solid. I see none of the artifacts from before, not a single one. Even when in Windows (computer hooked up through DVI-HDMI running BeyondTV), the backgrounds are completely clean and stable. With the 37" there was a lot of grain, especially on grey dialog boxes and white backgrounds. With the 50", there is no grain at all.

The ultimate artifact test that I've been using.... the last episode of Jericho in HD, there are several scenes about halfway in, inside the burning library. There is a lot going on in those scenes, lots of smoke whirling around, and lots of fast movements. The 37" (both the sets I had at home) totally broke down trying to render this. The picture was just crazy with artifacts (posterization, red blobs on faces, lots of vibrating pixels in red). With the 50" it all good, all clean, everything you see is in the source material (checked playing back on other computers).


I've never seen the smaller plasmas in action, but, I'm surprised that you had so much trouble with the 37" units. Although I know they have a slightly lower resolution, I would have thought that such a small size would be rock solid.

I couldn't understand what you were looking at and all the problems you were describing on MULTIPLE sets, since my 50" units appears perfect.....even on SD material.

Well, Good Luck with your new 50 incher. :)

Congrats, samundnsen! It may have cost you some back grief (and a wad of cash, unless they gave you the 50 for the price of the 37 for your trouble :D ), but sounds like a great outcome in the end.

I'll be getting the 42 (room and budget constraints). Hopefully I won't see the problems you had with the 37; I imagine if that were common we'd be hearing a lot more about it here.

Cheers... Perry.

Well, I guess I should pipe up since there does seem to be a problem. I have the 42" which was manufactured in May '06 and purchased in late May. I have the bad posterization and red veiny lines between some gradients.

Before I bought this set, I read this forum several times over and didn't see anything related to this problem. Immediately after I bought this set and watched some movies, I saw the problem. I exchanged it for another and it also had the same problem. I figured this was just normal for plasma TVs since no one here seemed to mention anything about it and I was sure the critics at AVS would have said something by now.

I've tried playing around with the TV settings as well as the DVD settings. I can get the veiny lines to go away on certain scenes by setting the brightness to a certain level but they come back in other scenes. If the picture wasn't so great, I would have returned this set a long time ago as the posterization and the veiny lines, in particular, drive me crazy. I bought the extended warranty and I'm thinking about using it since this does seem to be a problem with certain sets and not an inherent issue with plasmas.

EDIT: I should mention I have the TH-42PX60U with the latest 1.25 firmware installed.

Further to my last post on this effect, I'm still seeing it but something new has been thrown into the mix.

My Cable provider just added Discovery HD so now I'm getting 10 HDTV channels over Plain Old Cable without need for a converter box. I was quite surprised to see DiscoveryHD pop up while channel hopping my way through the HDTV channels. I know that I had configured the TV so that the sub-band it is on, 62.12, was set so that it would NOT display while channel surfing. Without any interaction on my part, it was there, enabled to display.

After watching Discovery HD for a couple of hours I realised that I was marvelling at the PQ so I checked to see what resolution it was being broadcast in and found that it is 720p. The other nine HDTV channels are 1080i. Discovery at 720p has a very solid image in that I never see the posterization, false contours, or macro blocking which I've seen on all the other 1080i channels to one degree or another.

Makes me think this set's CPU may have an issue with 1080i.


After a couple more weeks of watching PBS Detroit post v1.25 firmware update, I find it is still as bad as before the update. There are certain shows on PBS that are more viewable on SDTV due the gut wrenching optical illusions I'm seeing.

As for the other 1080i channels, I've noticed lip synch issues in the last couple of days. Friday evening during Numbers and last night during the Bourne Identity, both on CBS.

There was also a lot of dropouts the past couple of days where the screen would go black for a second or two. I'm thinking my Cable provider is responsible or it may be an effect related to the cooling/contraction of the neighborhood trunk lines in the evening after a day of sunshine.


I'm still seeing the effect I described earlier and as per before, only on PBS. It doesn't seem to be as bad as pre v1.25 but I think this may be related to program content so the verdict is still out. This is the second skin layer or ghosting effect.

Watching this occur, and realizing it is only on one channel, I'd speculate that what this effect is related to is the processing of the compressed image. It almost looks like it is a delay effect related to movement. It is most prevalent when the screen is showing a classic profile of a person's head and then, while talking, they move their head forward or backward a subtle amount. It is on the backwards movement that I really notice the second layer trying to "catch-up" to the new head position.

Otherwise, v1.25 seems to have added some graininess to the image but not too much, most noticeable on standard definition TV. I've seen something similar in Panasonic digital cameras lately, where noise reduction algorithms have eliminated noise from images but created a too smooth effect. Detail can be increased by setting the camera's noise reduction to low. Seems similar to me.

The World Series was beautiful to watch last night on FOX as have been the various HD shows on networks like CBS, NBC, and ABC. Only PBS is an issue for me.

.

I've had my 42PX60U for about a month now and am really enjoying most HD programming. However, I do notice one odd effect but as I only see it on one channel, I'm not too put out by it.

Watching PBS WTVS Detroit, I continue to see an odd delay type effect particularly on faces. I'll be watching a person talk and will notice that around the edge of his cheekbone or hairline, what looks llike a ghost image phasing in and phasing out. almost like a chunk of his face was detached and then is putting itself back together.

I get 8 other HD channels and can't recall seeing this on them. I do see occasional macroblocking and sometimes the sound will drop with a sputz of noise. I watch a fair bit of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and then Conan with his angular face but I never see this effect. Only on PBS.

Anyone else seeing something like this?

.

I've had my PX60 for 2 months now and from the get go there has been a loud hum from the rear of the unit and the R side (as you face the front) while it's on. My guess is that this is the power supply. The noise definitely gets worse when the picture is white.

I added a AC regenerator to filter out AC noise and protect against surges.

Is this normal? A defect? I don't trust Panasonic to give me a straight answer.
Thx.

Power supply or maybe one of the fans? Not sure if yours is louder than it should be. I noticed a low hum on mine that didn't seem abnormal to me. An earlier poster said that his made that noise, and he hung a comforter on the wall or something, sorry can't remember exactly, but it masked the noise completely if I remember the post correctly. So, if you can, perhaps move the set or place something behind it to help mask the noise.

Well, I guess I should pipe up since there does seem to be a problem. I have the 42" which was manufactured in May '06 and purchased in late May. I have the bad posterization and red veiny lines between some gradients.

I have a 42" PX600U manufactured in June, upgraded to latest firmware. It doesn't have anything like the described symptom.

If the noise is worsening when the screen is white, it's not fans, it's classic "plasma buzz" you are hearing.

This phenomenon once ended my relationaship with a Pioneer, so I hope you find a satisfactory outcome. I hope this especially because I have a PX60 on order right now.

Also have a buzz on a pd60 but only occurs on the Hi- def channels :confused:

Any Ideas?

Every single px60u I've tested over the last couple of weeks have had the buzzing, but each set has been different in how loud it is. The first 37px60u I had it took me several days before I heard it, and I could only hear it when I was all the way up close. The second set I could hear it clear across the room. The third set I checked out in the store I could hear it up close, but that was also in a noisy environment. The 50px60u I finally ended up with still has a noticeable buzz up close, but not enough to bother me.

Is the buzzing so loud that you hear it on top of the volume of your TV?

Can someone please post some break-in settings for the 50PX60 connected to a SA8300HD via HDMI?

Thank you.

Ange Rizzo, just put everything at "0" for the first 100 hours. :)

FYI...installing firmware (1.46 in my case) erases minutes odometer and on/off count.

Can someone please post some break-in settings for the 50PX60 connected to a SA8300HD via HDMI?

Thank you.

Hi Ange,

I have this exact setup. There is a lot of info on this in this and other threads but for the most part do not use the Vivid mode for your TV! Select Standard or Cinema, I used Standard.

This is from a review of this set.

Panasonic TH-50PX60U Optimal Picture Settings
Picture Mode Standard
Picture +22 <- I set this to ~12-15 for the first 100hrs then bumped it to 22
Brightness +8
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm
Black Level Light

Turn all noise reduction off.

Watch a lot of varied content, avoid prolonged SD content in 4:3 mode, use the justified mode to fill the screen. Enjoy your new Plasma and do not be paranoid about image retention, it can happen under very extreme circumstances but with normal viewing you should not have any problems.

You will probably want to get a DVD for calibration(AVIA, DVE or GetGray) of the above settings for your environment and set but these are a good starting point and will give you an enjoyable image during your break in.

Cloner

Is the buzzing so loud that you hear it on top of the volume of your TV?

And that, my friend, is entirely the wrong question.

It's not the noise that is masked by the TV, it's the noise you suddenly hear during quiet moments that maddens you.

Add me to the list of proud owners of 50PX60!

Just ordered one and should be getting it this Saturday. Thank you to everyone who posted their reviews that helped me make this buying decision! While I'm a bit concerned about this new buzzing problem, I hope it's nothing major and I can enjoy this great TV set.

Now, I understand about the 100 hour break-in period, what should I do after those 100 hours. Should I set everything to the best settings possible, or still be a bit conservative and for how long?

quick question...
searched the forum for the firmware links...couldn't find them.
can someone repost them??

thanks...

quick question...
searched the forum for the firmware links...couldn't find them.
can someone repost them??

thanks...


Here you go. Panny firmware (http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/SpecialApplications/ProductFirmwareDownloads/downloads1.asp)

CR ratings are out...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8731648&&#post8731648

thanks, king...
appreciate it.

now...to be perfectly honest...i don't think i have any of the issues with my current picture quality...
hmmm, so, i'm struggling about making the firmware upgrade...
i think i'll play second fiddle to everyone else for a bit and see how the rest play out...

thanks again, everyone!

-j

I know a lot of people are using the settings provided by that plasma site, but man, +22 Picture is a bit much for me. Conan was almost melting my eyeballs at +12. Does anyone else think it's a bit much?

Also, I've got a fairly significant buzz coming from the back, although it's not enough to warrant an exchange.



Hi Ange,

I have this exact setup. There is a lot of info on this in this and other threads but for the most part do not use the Vivid mode for your TV! Select Standard or Cinema, I used Standard.

This is from a review of this set.

Panasonic TH-50PX60U Optimal Picture Settings
Picture Mode Standard
Picture +22 <- I set this to ~12-15 for the first 100hrs then bumped it to 22
Brightness +8
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm
Black Level Light

Turn all noise reduction off.

Watch a lot of varied content, avoid prolonged SD content in 4:3 mode, use the justified mode to fill the screen. Enjoy your new Plasma and do not be paranoid about image retention, it can happen under very extreme circumstances but with normal viewing you should not have any problems.

You will probably want to get a DVD for calibration(AVIA, DVE or GetGray) of the above settings for your environment and set but these are a good starting point and will give you an enjoyable image during your break in.

Cloner

I know a lot of people are using the settings provided by that plasma site, but man, +22 Picture is a bit much for me. Conan was almost melting my eyeballs at +12. Does anyone else think it's a bit much?



Yes, it seems too high for me too and I was going to ask this earlier. I have my 50PX600U set to +13 right now. I originally had Picture set to +18 but I thought that was too high.

On my 50PX60U, +22 would be enough to give me sunburn. Even +13 would be too high. I currently have mine set to +5 Picture, +10 Brightness for SD and HD. But for DVD I use +8 Picture and -10 Brightness. Strange how they require different settings.

I definitely think you're better off closer to +10 than +20.

Thank you all for your helpful responses. I'll give the different settings a try and I'll let you know what I think.

Ange

Hi,

Could someone please describe what I would need to connect my Notebook to this TV (60U) with only a VGA out port? I have an ATI Radeon X1400 installed, which can send component out signal, if that matters.

I searched this thread for an answer, but couldn't find it.

I found some VGA to Component cables @ monoprice, but I'm not sure if those are correct. There are some that are VGA to 3RCA and some that are VGA to 5BNC RGB. I don't know the difference and couldn't find an answer after searching. Will these cables work for me?

Thanks very much in advance!

Hi,

Could someone please describe what I would need to connect my Notebook to this TV with only a VGA out port? I have an ATI Radeon X1400 installed, if that matters.

I searched this thread for an answer, but couldn't find it.

I found some VGA to Component cables @ monoprice, but I'm not sure if those are correct. There are some that are VGA to 3RCA and some that are VGA to 5BNC RGB. I don't know the difference and couldn't find an answer after searching. Will these cables work for me?

Thanks very much in advance!

When you say "this TV", I assume you mean the cheaper 60U model which doesn't have a VGA input. If so, I guess the simple answer is that you should have bought the 600U model, because it ain't cheap to connect VGA to the 60U.

The VGA to Component cables you can get at monoprice.com will not work for what you want to do. While VGA and Component are both analog video, they are not the same type of analog video, and the VGA signal is incompatible with most TVs and consumer video equipment. Read the caveats in the monoprice description. (For what it's worth, the 3RCA part means 3 RCA-type connectors, and the 5BNC part means 5 BNC-type connectors).

When you say "this TV", I assume you mean the cheaper 60U model which doesn't have a VGA input. If so, I guess the simple answer is that you should have bought the 600U model, because it ain't cheap to connect VGA to the 60U.

The VGA to Component cables you can get at monoprice.com will not work for what you want to do. While VGA and Component are both analog video, they are not the same type of analog video, and the VGA signal is incompatible with most TVs and consumer video equipment. Read the caveats in the monoprice description. (For what it's worth, the 3RCA part means 3 RCA-type connectors, and the 5BNC part means 5 BNC-type connectors).

Thank you for your response. This is all a learning process for me, so thanks for the information.

I edited my above post with a caveat: The X1400 is capable of "YPrPb component output for direct drive of HDTV displays." Is that irrelevant and the VGA to Component signal still not work? And if it does, would the 60U take the 3RCA or the 5BNC? I checked the specs and was inclined to believe it takes the 3RCA.

Thanks for your patience.

Thank you for your response. This is all a learning process for me, so thanks for the information.

I edited my above post with a caveat: The X1400 is capable of "YPrPb component output for direct drive of HDTV displays." Is that irrelevant and the VGA to Component signal still not work? And if it does, would the 60U take the 3RCA or the 5BNC? I checked the specs and was inclined to believe it takes the 3RCA.

Thanks for your patience.

I thought the X1400 was a mobile chipset for notebooks?

Anyway, some ATI graphics cards do have the ability to output YPrPb component video compatible with your HDTV (I have one actually, an AIW 9800Pro). They are meant to be used with a special 3-RCA breakout adapter which comes with the graphics card. If you have one, you're good to go. But the ATI adapter I have connects to the DVI output on the graphics card - I don't know if they made a version for the VGA output. I'm not sure what would happen if you set the ATI card to output YPrPb and connected to the TV with the monoprice VGA-to-3 RCA cable. It might work.

If you do have a DVI output, you would be better off to connect to the TV with a DVI-to-HDMI cable.

I thought the X1400 was a mobile chipset for notebooks?

Anyway, some ATI graphics cards do have the ability to output YPrPb component video compatible with your HDTV (I have one actually, an AIW 9800Pro). They are meant to be used with a special 3-RCA breakout adapter which comes with the graphics card. If you have one, you're good to go. But the ATI adapter I have connects to the DVI output on the graphics card - I don't know if they made a version for the VGA output. I'm not sure what would happen if you set the ATI card to output YPrPb and connected to the TV with the monoprice VGA-to-3 RCA cable. It might work.

If you do have a DVI output, you would be better off to connect to the TV with a DVI-to-HDMI cable.

Thanks again for your response, Amesdp.

The X1400is a graphics card, not the chipset. At least there is some hope that it will work! I will pick up the VGA to 3 RCA cable then and try it out.

And of course, I wish I had DVI but the notebook I am getting does not have that port - only VGA.

Regards,
K

Hello, all. I hope I've chosen the right Panny thread for these observations/questions. I've had a 42PX60U at home for a week now, and I have to say I'm disappointed with PQ much too often. I'm hoping the firmware updates mentioned in many a Panny thread will help.

Right now, I'm using OTA and receiving strong HD-channel signals (85-98% on signal meter) from the 4 big networks and PBS, and digital signals for those 5 and a few others. Comcast will install cable next week, and undoubtedly disappoint me further. At first I thought the occasional macro-pixelation was an undesired effect of OTA reception, but others on these forum have had similar complaints. A friend of mine who has the same Panny plasma but with HD cable up and running says he doesn't experience the macro pixelling. Will new firmware fix this?

I began to notice image fuzziness when watching the World Series--extra disappointing because I thought the 720P Fox program would look perfect--no scaling, right? Well, the brick wall behind homeplate had that fuzzy/sizzling look; the set handled the bright red Cardinal uniform better than the darker, more detailed red within the bricks.

But worst of all--clayface and clayfacing. (Am I right in assuming this term comes from the Batman villain of the same name? If not, nice coincidence.) Faces are slipping and sliding everywhere; people moving their heads begin to look like Sloth from the Goonies--"Chunk!" A little camera motion and a lively narrator or interview--more so on HD video than HD film sources--can make a show unwatchable, can make your eyeballs ache. My local PBS HD runs widescreen 24/7 with few logos; it has served as a great break-in channel. But the many video-based HD programs have revealed this real problem with motion and detail. Travel shows, cooking shows, even a show about digital tv itself--all of them look horrible when a little motion is shown. Is this the result of the Panny's scaling/deinterlacing from 1080i to 720p? FWIW, this still happens if I sit 12 feet from the screen; distance isn't the problem.

Will the firmware updates I've read about (here and on Bruzzi's site) actually take care of these problems? My computer had no SD reader, and I have no SD card--sad but true. Will Panasonic's Concierge Service send one to me? Will Best Buy, my place of purchase, be able to set me up? Will both groups say they don't know what the hell I'm talking about, or if they do, discourage me with voided warranty warnings? I turn to you, true patriots of PQ, for assistance.

I found to ways to determine my firmware version--and received two different numbers. Using the instructions from the pasctraining.panasonic.com, I translated the version from the ABOUT item on the SETUP menu: TV 0142-0110 should equal v1.21. Using instructions from Bruzzi's site (hold set's and remote's volume + buttons), I received a flashing screen filled with info--and software version 1.040. Anybody know which is right? My 42PX60U was manufactured in September 2006 in Mexico.

And one more: I can't change the black level setting (which ******************* calls Enhanced Black Level and which they say should be turned "off") on my set; is it because OTA uses the tuner and isn't an external input?

Sorry for the length of the post. Thanks for reading and responding.

I have the 50PX60U and noticed some clay face when I first got my set as well. I have no clay face at all now after changing a few settings. First of all, if your set is in Vivid mode, change it to Standard or Cinema. Vivid is evil. Next, set Sharpness to no higher than 0, and preferrably around -5 to -10. Finally, turn OFF Video NR and MPEG NR. Turning these off may introduce some slight picture noise, but you will likely find it well worth the trade-off.

I began to notice image fuzziness when watching the World Series--extra disappointing because I thought the 720P Fox program would look perfect--no scaling, right? Well, the brick wall behind homeplate had that fuzzy/sizzling look; the set handled the bright red Cardinal uniform better than the darker, more detailed red within the bricks.


720p will have scaling, but no de-interlacing. Your display is 1024x768, it'll scale anything you put into it! As far as this "sizzling", I think I know what you're talking about. Hopefully, you are out of Vivid mode, try turning down your "picture" setting and these will disappear. I think it's "mosquito" noise, as I've seen described here, but could be wrong. I think it has to do with Fox's transmission of the signal.


But worst of all--clayface and clayfacing. (Am I right in assuming this term comes from the Batman villain of the same name? If not, nice coincidence.) Faces are slipping and sliding everywhere; people moving their heads begin to look like Sloth from the Goonies--"Chunk!"


Someone else posted about this a little bit ago, maybe a week or two, check earlier in this thread for info. He said that PBS was the only channel that exhibited this symptom and concluded that it must be problems with their compression/transmission. He also mentioned that turning on the MPEG Noise Reduction (I think it was that one, or maybe both NR) reduced it a great deal.


Will the firmware updates I've read about (here and on Bruzzi's site) actually take care of these problems? My computer had no SD reader, and I have no SD card--sad but true. Will Panasonic's Concierge Service send one to me? Will Best Buy, my place of purchase, be able to set me up? Will both groups say they don't know what the hell I'm talking about, or if they do, discourage me with voided warranty warnings? I turn to you, true patriots of PQ, for assistance.


You will probably have the most luck buying an SD card and reader and doing it yourself. You could try having Panasonic come out and update it, but it really will be at their discretion as to whether or not they think that you "need" it. :(


I found to ways to determine my firmware version--and received two different numbers. Using the instructions from the pasctraining.panasonic.com, I translated the version from the ABOUT item on the SETUP menu: TV 0142-0110 should equal v1.21.


Both are actually right. You are on v1.21 and v1.04 for the tuner. Not sure about the black level setting.

What's your sharpness set at?

Someone else posted about this a little bit ago, maybe a week or two, check earlier in this thread for info. He said that PBS was the only channel that exhibited this symptom and concluded that it must be problems with their compression/transmission. He also mentioned that turning on the MPEG Noise Reduction (I think it was that one, or maybe both NR) reduced it a great deal.


That raises an interesting point - clay face may be partly an MPEG-2 compression effect. rather than entirely a color adjustment issue. The MPEG compression algorithm will try to represent areas of nearly-equivalent color and no sharp edges with one large "block" of same color. Facial surfaces with subtle shading are exactly the type of area that will be compressed, and one which human observers are unfortunately the most sensitive to. Clay face may be visibly worse on those transmissions which are using the most compression, especially the cases where people mention a kind of "ghost" image of shifting solid color blocks floating over the face. MPEG noise reduction would probably affect it, but I'm not sure if it would make things worse or better.

It was me that brought up the PBS "Second Skin" aka "Ghost" face issue. See post #2189 for a more recent update.

Nothing has fixed it and no, I didn't use MPEG noise reduction but that's an idea I'll have to try.

Clayface is different from Second Skin. I see clayface when Picture and Sharpness are set too high AND with HDTV feeds that seem to be sub-standard. CBS is a big problem at the moment. It and PBS both exhibit clayface at times and lately CBS has also had the speech out of sync.

Oddly, FOX comes to me as 1080i, not 720p, and the World Series looks marvelous. I recently had DiscoveryHD added by my cable provider and it comes in at 720p. What an amazing image. No PQ whatsoever. The Insectia show is stunning.

Which, in the more recent post, led me to ponder if these sets have some issue with 1080i.

.

Has anyone done a calibration on their 50px600u and care to share their video settings? I would like to change the settings for a big movie night for the family now that the set is over 400 hours. Thanks

Hey, y'all. Thanks for the answers and discussion about these many topics. Please let me respond to it all and, I hope, keep the discussion going. And please excuse and correct the mistakes I'm sure to make, learning as I go. The clayface/ghosting issues we have described are all related, but none of the terms seem to have a standard definition; maybe a bit more description will help.

To manage the break-in period, I immediately changed the out-of-the-box settings after I first plugged in the TV. I started with settings recommended on plasmatv-buyingguide:
Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temp: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Light (the site recommends "off," but since I'm only using OTA for now, I don't have the option to change.)

I soon lowered Picture to +10 and Brightness to +5. I typically leave Video NR and MPEG NR both "off," but in my various attempts to stop the blurring I have tried combinations of all the settings. Nothing has fixed the problem.

The fuzziness/sizzling of certain images--"mosquito noise" is a fine way of describing it--doesn't seem to be a persistent problem. Why the set can hold steady the details of a European church's ornate artwork but not the details of a brick wall is beyond me. Maybe it is Fox's signal.

Back to the terms clayface, ghosting, and second skin. I've heard that most of the HD shows have developed new methods for putting make-up on the actors/hosts/guests. Hiding flaws/aging in the skin (I love the way HD make the uber-beautiful a bit more human again!) has lead to some seriously layer-caked faces. But I assume none of us are really referring to more make-up on Jay Leno or any other on-air personalities.

It's always the motion of faces that reveals the problem, especially the small yet regular movements of people talking, walking, etc.--not the faster movements in sports programming. Maybe my complaint is this: the beauty of the static images makes the blurriness of certain moving images so damn disappointing. In my earlier post, I decided not to use the term "ghosting" to describe the blurring because ghosting is so often used to describe the fixed shadow image next to the proper image on, for example, weak OTA analog signals; this kind of ghosting, though annoying, is not the blurring I'm seeing on the Panny.

I'd liken the blurring to a cheap psychedelic effect--a moving face is always trying to catch up with itself! And I'm not trippin', dude. Take the Conan O'Brian Show. Actually, watch his face, his coffee mug with writing, and his clothing. If he's wearing a pinstripe suit, even a little motion on his part leads to a distracting blurring and sharpening of the lines. If the camera moves a bit, the writing on his mug becomes illegible. And his face loses that HD clarity with almost any animated expression--then gets it back when he holds his expression. The more he moves, the more "skins" he has, the more clay-like his face becomes, the more I question my purchase of the 42PX60U. Sorry for the rant.

For jawatkin and others who've updated their firmware: I have (am I right, jawatkin?) v1.21 for processing? and v 1.040 for the tuner. The download site lists v1.25 as the latest release. Is v1.25 all I need to be totally updated? Was the update easy to do? And most importantly, did the v1.25 update correct any of these clay/ghost/blur problems and the macro-pixelation? And why do I get macro-pix with OTA?

Two other complaints: First, I wish Panansonic had included a menu button on the set itself. If the remote dies, how can we continue to change settings? Second, FWIW, I don't consider myself an early HD adopter, so it sure is frustrating to find that networks, cable companies, and others haven't put more HD programming--and more consistent HD standards-- in place. Trying to figure out who or what is shortchanging the HD viewers is ridiculous.

That's why I am thankful for all the HD users who try to help one another. I'd love to hear more about what others are noticing/correcting before I consider returning the Panny. Not looking to commiserate here, but does anybody else have regrets about their purchase?

And one more stupid question: I'm only hooked up with OTA right now (getting HD-DVR from Comast soon). Is that why I can't move beyond channel 99 (or 99-9999)? Is it just "box-less" cable that lets you go past 99? How do I get the remote to do it?

I began to notice image fuzziness when watching the World Series--extra disappointing because I thought the 720P Fox program would look perfect--no scaling, right? Well, the brick wall behind homeplate had that fuzzy/sizzling look; the set handled the bright red Cardinal uniform better than the darker, more detailed red within the bricks.




I don't think this fuzzy look has anything to do with the TV. I'm watching a smaller CRT right now and only the bricks (like you say) are showing that effect...even on this CRT. Leads me to believe that it's FOX's feed.

No regrets whatsoever on my 600u purchase. Would buy another one for the bedroom if the wife would let me :)

For jawatkin and others who've updated their firmware: I have (am I right, jawatkin?) v1.21 for processing? and v 1.040 for the tuner. The download site lists v1.25 as the latest release. Is v1.25 all I need to be totally updated? Was the update easy to do? And most importantly, did the v1.25 update correct any of these clay/ghost/blur problems and the macro-pixelation? And why do I get macro-pix with OTA?


Yep, you are correct on what you have. The update was reallly easy. I can't tell if it fixed anything because I installed the update the day I got the TV, just figured that I might as well, so I really have nothing to compare it to. I did see the problem you are describing once on "Kindergarten Cop" when it was run on InHD2 (I know, stop mocking me!), but don't see it on other things. Since that's the only place I saw it, maybe it does fix it? Give it a try. If you have an SD card lying around, it only takes about 5 minutes. :)

v1.25 did NOT fix the Second Skin "psychedelic" effect for me.

Maybe it's a signal strength issue?

You're getting Conan on an over the air feed?

I'm getting PBS via CATV. I've never seen any issues with Conan. NBC right?

.

v1.25 did NOT fix the Second Skin "psychedelic" effect for me.

Maybe it's a signal strength issue?

You're getting Conan on an over the air feed?

I'm getting PBS via CATV. I've never seen any issues with Conan. NBC right?

.

Newsyl,

disappointing to hear v1.25 did NOT fix clayface/2nd skin/psychedlic blur. FWIW, I'm living in Pittsburgh, PA and can receive Over-The-Air analog, digital, and HD broadcasts for NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, and PBS. My OTA signal strength is 82-98% on all the channels I receive. I just found an old post in which someone mentioned that PBS upscales everything on its HD channel, so maybe I shouldn't judge too much from that one signal.

I chose Conan (yes, OTA NBC-HD is probably my strongest signal) as my example because he is definitely shown in HD, he moves around a fair amount, and the cameras also move around for close-ups, shots of the band, etc. It's not as bad on his show as it is on PBS, but I suspect his Irish-white face and good make-up hide manage the problem a bit better. If you watch his show, check out his suit and tie, his coffee mug with printing on it, and of course his face. At this point, I am hyper-focused on faces, but what else do you really watch on comedy shows? A lively personality/speaker in HD shows the clayface most obviously.

Just curious, are you keeping your set? As much as I didn't want to, I'm back to considering the Sony kd34xbr970, 200lbs. of 1080i CRT HDTV, aka the HD boulder.

Yes, I'm keeping this set. I do believe most of the issues are related to equipment further upstream either with the originator or with my cable provider's head end hardware.

It was my wife that wanted a smaller form factor after our CRT died this summer. If I'd had my way we would have bought a front projector and only watched DVD's on it. But now that we have the plasma, and I found out I can get my 10 channels of HDTV at no extra cost or need for a converter box, I sure am enjoying it.

98% or more of the time, the HDTV is flawless on all channels other than PBS and CBS. I'm still keeping a pillow under my chin for the occasional show on DiscoveryHD where it looks like I can reach out and touch the subject of the show. :eek:

.

Yeah, I could watch grass grow for hours on Discovery HD :)

It was my wife that wanted a smaller form factor after our CRT died this summer. If I'd had my way we would have bought a front projector and only watched DVD's on it.


I guess they're all the same. :p

Yeah, I could watch grass grow for hours on Discovery HD :)

I'm so jealous of you guys... I don't think Cablevision will ever offer DiscoveryHD :(

Yes, I'm keeping this set. I do believe most of the issues are related to equipment further upstream either with the originator or with my cable provider's head end hardware.

It was my wife that wanted a smaller form factor after our CRT died this summer. If I'd had my way we would have bought a front projector and only watched DVD's on it. But now that we have the plasma, and I found out I can get my 10 channels of HDTV at no extra cost or need for a converter box, I sure am enjoying it.

98% or more of the time, the HDTV is flawless on all channels other than PBS and CBS. I'm still keeping a pillow under my chin for the occasional show on DiscoveryHD where it looks like I can reach out and touch the subject of the show. :eek:

.

newsyl,

I'm curious about your cable connection, which (from what you wrote) must include 10 unscrambled HD channels. I'm still using OTA/antennae; my cable will be installed on Monday. I thought unscrambled cable usually included only the major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS). What channels are you getting? And do you have only "basic" cable (which in my area is about 70 channels)? I plan on trying a straight/direct (boxless) connection once the cable is turned on, and hoping that what I want/need is still available without a box (so I can maybe return the box and save some money). Unfortunately, Comcast (my area's local monopoly) doesn't seem all that concerned/excited about adding new HD channels--because, you know, we all need 10 or more shopping channels just to stay alive!)

Any thoughts on why PBS and CBS offer the worst (or lower quality) HD signals? I've been thankful for the nearly logo-free, 24/7 widescreen PBS HD channel because it's almost perfect for the break-in period. Even though the Panny recall says it's all in 1080i, I'm beginning to think all the video-based shows are upscale/converted and not HD. But again, it's only when the shows are in motion when clayface/blurring kicks in; the static images look amazing.

Anybody else out there noticing the psychedelic blurring? Any chance I just got a bad set?

any way that you can post a picture of what you're talking about?

any way that you can post a picture of what you're talking about?


Sorry, I can't. No digital camera here, but I guess some video is what I really need to show. If you have a chance to view some late night programming on PBS (especially the video-based stuff--Euro travels, cooking shows, etc.) or other channels (like Conan, Leno, Saturday Night Live) maybe you'll see it too. FWIW, I sit about 10 feet back from the screen, but can notice the blurring from closer and farther away. See if you notice the blurring and re-sharpening of the deep HD detail when people and cameras move around a bit--fine lines on clothing or faces, text on screen (not the Panny's menus), etc. Or better yet: on some of the PBS travel shows, when the camera is following (from in front) the show's walking host, notice how a vivid outdoor scene blurs. For example, the camera moves just enough that even the fluffy white clouds in the background seem jumpy, glitchy (nice terms, huh?). It turns an almost 3-D experience into 2-D South Park-like construction paper flatness. But when camera and host hold still, all is back to HD vividness and depth. Sorry if my descriptions are too vague.

Has anyone else noticed that the settings on the Advanced Picture menu (i.e., the things like Black Level and Noise Reduction) are independent per input? If I set the Black Level to Dark and MPEG Noise Reduction to On for the Component 1 input (DVD), it doesn't affect the same settings for the HDMI1 input, even though both are set to Picture mode Standard.

Hey, not only is the Black Level setting independent per input, it's independent for HD and for SD, at least on the HDMI inputs.

Sorry, I can't. No digital camera here, but I guess some video is what I really need to show. If .........

Are you seeing the same problem as following ??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8615897#post8615897

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8544704#post8544704

Are you seeing the same problem as following ??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8615897#post8615897

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8544704#post8544704

The above 2 problems combined also cause some amount of motion-blur affect.

kjm5,

We are on the same page. In an earlier post I mentioned many of the issues you are having, but I've become focused/fixated on the clayface blurring--need a better term for it.

I'm no expert, but the fuzziness/pixel-sparkle in and along areas of gradation sounds almost like false contouring, something I've also noticed on my set. The best example of the worst case: colorful sunsets in appearing as layers of different color, especially when the image is fading to black. Of course the Panny isn't that bad. But I've noticed that pixel fuzz-sparkle (I'll just keep renaming it) a fair amount. My earlier example was from the World Series on Fox: the Cardinals red uniforms looked vividly red, but the reddish brick backstop behind homeplate, shown every time a pitch was thrown, had that annoying fuzziness I associate with SD CRTs. I was surprised the Panny could handle the detail.

I know there are still many trade-offs in the HD world and no perfect sets, but these problems have me reconsidering the whole commitment.

What's your experience with blurring faces and details? I don't notice it nearly as much with film-based HD (shows like Lost, Law and Order), but the video-based HD programming, for me, borders on unwatchable--or psychedelic. Try watching an interview or conversation where the camera is close enough to provide the spectacular HD detail on faces. When the heads start moving and the faces and clothing details blur, I almost expect to hear "Strawberry Fields Forever" in the background. Is there some kind of LSD/'Shroom setting I'm unaware of? Is a very tiny hippie living inside my plasma and "processing reality"?

Anyway, sounds like we're having most of the same problems--and probably sharing the same dissatisfaction. I know my eyeballs can do at least 1080p. Feel free to PM me with more of your viewing experiences and any solutions found. Are you considering a return?

Anyway, sounds like we're having most of the same problems--and probably sharing the same dissatisfaction. I know my eyeballs can do at least 1080p. Feel free to PM me with more of your viewing experiences and any solutions found. Are you considering a return?


If you read the posts from both kjm5 and myself, you'll see that we (and others) ended up replacing sets several times until we found a good set. I tried 3 different 37px60u, and all had these issues, with varying levels of severity. I finally ended up with a 50px60u which has NONE of these issues, so DO NOT accept any of these flaws as inevitable. You can adjust your set to your hearts content and see changes in behavior, but no amount of adjusting will make the problem go away, it will just make them more or less visible.

Hi all, my 50PX60U has been an amazing set so far, until last when I was watching something, it started to click off and on for about 10 seconds then it came out of it and stayed on. I decided to turn the TV off until this morning and after a little while of watching it did it once more, but it has gone a couple of hours with doing it since. Im not running anything on HDMI, only component and I also have a very good power bar. I know I read somewhere in these 70 some pages of similar problems, but cant seem to find it now. Can anyone help, or send me in the right direction.. Thanks.

Reading the posts above about various image problems, I'm not sure that some posters understand that HD broadcasts use MPEG-2 compression, an algorithm which drops detail and blurs the image when it moves. It's common for a static image to be crystal clear, and then have the details blur when the scene or objects in it move. In cases where the signal provider is using more compression than they should, the moving scene or objects can start to show fine macroblocking or pixelation. This is all nothing to do with the TV - it's simply rendering the data as specified.

Right now my settings are:
Pic Mode: Vivid
Picture: +26
Brightness: +11
Color: -6
Tint: +3
Sharpness: -13
Color Temp: Normal
Color mng.: On

Other Adjust
Video NR: Off
3D Y/C filter: greyed out
Color matrix: greyed out
MPEG NR: Off
Black Level: Light

I find out I have to use vivid to get the whitest whites. Otherwise the whites look grey to me. Even with the pic and brigtness set pretty high I still get very deep blacks. I like tweaking the settings using the new Music High Def channel on my Nashville Comcast HDMI motorola cable box. Also, I personnally like my picture quality to look lifelike and not oversaturated, with the whites actually white (not gray) and I like seeing the details in the black levels. I like a little more sharpness in my picture too.

So, try my settings and tell me what you think.

sailomb,
I assume you wear very dark sunglasses, when watching TV.

sailomb,
I assume you wear very dark sunglasses, when watching TV.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't watch it on these settings during the day, let alone at night! :cool:

kjm5,

We are on the same page. In an earlier post I mentioned many of the issues you are having, but I've become focused/fixated on the clayface blurring--need a better term for it.

I'm no expert, but the fuzziness/pixel-sparkle in and along areas of gradation sounds almost like false contouring, something I've also noticed on my set. The best example of the worst case: colorful sunsets in appearing as layers of different color, especially when the image is fading to black. Of course the Panny isn't that bad. But I've noticed that pixel fuzz-sparkle (I'll just keep renaming it) a fair amount. My earlier example was from the World Series on Fox: the Cardinals red uniforms looked vividly red, but the reddish brick backstop behind homeplate, shown every time a pitch was thrown, had that annoying fuzziness I associate with SD CRTs. I was surprised the Panny could handle the detail.

I know there are still many trade-offs in the HD world and no perfect sets, but these problems have me reconsidering the whole commitment.

What's your experience with blurring faces and details? I don't notice it nearly as much with film-based HD (shows like Lost, Law and Order), but the video-based HD programming, for me, borders on unwatchable--or psychedelic. Try watching an interview or conversation where the camera is close enough to provide the spectacular HD detail on faces. When the heads start moving and the faces and clothing details blur, I almost expect to hear "Strawberry Fields Forever" in the background. Is there some kind of LSD/'Shroom setting I'm unaware of? Is a very tiny hippie living inside my plasma and "processing reality"?

Anyway, sounds like we're having most of the same problems--and probably sharing the same dissatisfaction. I know my eyeballs can do at least 1080p. Feel free to PM me with more of your viewing experiences and any solutions found. Are you considering a return?

Although you didn't mention what size set you're referring to, as posted by samundsen above, he had problems with the 37" set. The 50" sets have 1365x768 resolution, while the smaller sets are lower.

All I can tell you is that NONE of the problems you refer to have anything to do with the OTA transmission. For OTA viewing, apart from the fact that they use MPEG 2 compression, the resolution is only 1080i, so don't expect any improvement from a 1080p set. Based on the bandwidth allocations, it doesn't appear that there will be 1080p in the near future.

Although I haven't really looked at the smaller sets, any set will appear to produce "clay faces" or burnout if the contrast is set too high. What I do know is that the upgrade to firmware version 1.25 has essentially NO effect on the 50" units, but then again, they don't seem to have the "clay face syndrome".

If it appears as bad as you describe, I would return it if possible and if you can swing it, get a 50" unit.

Good Luck! :)

Right now my settings are:
Pic Mode: Vivid
Picture: +26
Brightness: +11
Color: -6
Tint: +3
Sharpness: -13
Color Temp: Normal
Color mng.: On

Other Adjust
Video NR: Off
3D Y/C filter: greyed out
Color matrix: greyed out
MPEG NR: Off
Black Level: Light

I find out I have to use vivid to get the whitest whites. Otherwise the whites look grey to me. Even with the pic and brigtness set pretty high I still get very deep blacks. I like tweaking the settings using the new Music High Def channel on my Nashville Comcast HDMI motorola cable box. Also, I personnally like my picture quality to look lifelike and not oversaturated, with the whites actually white (not gray) and I like seeing the details in the black levels. I like a little more sharpness in my picture too.

So, try my settings and tell me what you think.

How new is your TV? With that type of setting you will notice IR very quickly on a brand new set.

How new is your TV? With that type of setting you will notice IR very quickly on a brand new set.

I ran my 58PX600 with a Picture setting of +22 for the entire "break-in" period and now run it at +19. I have no IR or burn in problems.

I think the the concerns with IR and burn-in are exaggerated (or a problem from the past that has since been resolved). I mean, think about it. Panasonic ships these sets with the Vivid mode engaged and the average joe knows nothing about burn in. If they just plugged the set in and left it alone according to many here they should be at high risk for burn-in. If Panasonic were truly concerned with burn-in, I doubt they would leave themselves liable like this.

Although you didn't mention what size set you're referring to, as posted by samundsen above, he had problems with the 37" set. The 50" sets have 1365x768 resolution, while the smaller sets are lower.

All I can tell you is that NONE of the problems you refer to have anything to do with the OTA transmission. For OTA viewing, apart from the fact that they use MPEG 2 compression, the resolution is only 1080i, so don't expect any improvement from a 1080p set. Based on the bandwidth allocations, it doesn't appear that there will be 1080p in the near future.

Although I haven't really looked at the smaller sets, any set will appear to produce "clay faces" or burnout if the contrast is set too high. What I do know is that the upgrade to firmware version 1.25 has essentially NO effect on the 50" units, but then again, they don't seem to have the "clay face syndrome".

If it appears as bad as you describe, I would return it if possible and if you can swing it, get a 50" unit.

Good Luck! :)

techman707,

I have the 42PX60U (1024x768 res.) Contrast is set to +10, but I've tried higher and lower settings on everything to stop the clayface, and nothing has worked. I think it's fair to assume most posters here truly scrutinize PQ, so more people would have mentioned clayface/blur/smear as a problem. Maybe I received a bad set. It's just too distracting not to notice. Oooph.

I ran my 58PX600 with a Picture setting of +22 for the entire "break-in" period and now run it at +19. I have no IR or burn in problems.

I think the the concerns with IR and burn-in are exaggerated (or a problem from the past that has since been resolved). I mean, think about it. Panasonic ships these sets with the Vivid mode engaged and the average joe knows nothing about burn in. If they just plugged the set in and left it alone according to many here they should be at high risk for burn-in. If Panasonic were truly concerned with burn-in, I doubt they would leave themselves liable like this.

They don't leave themselves liable, they do not cover burn-in under the warranty.

But I agree the burn-in issue is exaggerated a bit.

techman707,

I have the 42PX60U (1024x768 res.) Contrast is set to +10, but I've tried higher and lower settings on everything to stop the clayface, and nothing has worked. I think it's fair to assume most posters here truly scrutinize PQ, so more people would have mentioned clayface/blur/smear as a problem. Maybe I received a bad set. It's just too distracting not to notice. Oooph.


How close do you sit to the TV? I sit about 10-12 feet away from 50" tv and I have never seen clay face or any other type of picture defect from that distance. If I get right up on the TV at about 8 inches then I can see artifacts or other things, but the whole idea of a large TV is so that you can sit farther away. If you're seeing clay face at a distance than either your source is causing it or your settings on your TV aren't quite right.

Has anyone tried using a video processor with these plasams? If you did, what are your experiences? Do you run into problems with double scaling or overscanning?

They don't leave themselves liable, they do not cover burn-in under the warranty.

But I agree the burn-in issue is exaggerated a bit.

There is a key difference between the USA and Canada warranty policy: the USA warranty specifically excludes burn-in damage, the Canadian one does not. If my Canadian TV suffered burn-in damage, I would argue that burn-in is clearly covered, because otherwise it would have been mentioned, as demonstrated by the two warrantees being printed side-by-side in the same manual. I wonder though if Panasonic would point to some other provision of Canadian law that makes it unnecessary to mention it. Perhaps their mild warnings about avoiding fixed images are insufficient to avoid liability under U.S. law, but allow them to escape liability under Canadian law?

There's one other key difference between the USA and Canada warranties: USA units get a 2-year parts-only warranty on the glass, Canadian units do not. I guess Panasonic is worried that Canadians watch too much TV, or perhaps the cold winters are harder on panel life expectancy than we knew. :)

I just bought the 50px600u, can someone tell me how to check the number of hours that unit has been on for?

I just bought the 50px600u, can someone tell me how to check the number of hours that unit has been on for?


Check this site out.

http://www.bruzzi.ws/forum/showthread.php?t=66

Just curious what you all have your initial settings at. I currently set mine to all 0. It's not much fun watching it this way, but wanted to find out what would be an acceptable picture setting for my break-in period.

Just curious what you all have your initial settings at. I currently set mine to all 0. It's not much fun watching it this way, but wanted to find out what would be an acceptable picture setting for my break-in period.

That's what I used during my break-in period. It does help the PQ a lot if you turn out the room lights.

ah ok gotcha. I'll leave all my picture settings at 0 for my break-in period. Currently have the break-in DVD going.

Do you know if they would add more discrete codes with the firmware upgrade? I have a harmony remote and for this model PX60 I see there are discrete codes listed for aspect, picture etc. but none of them worked with 1.03. I just upgraded to 1.25 and wondering if those discrete codes would work now.

Thanks

Do you know if they would add more discrete codes with the firmware upgrade? I have a harmony remote and for this model PX60 I see there are discrete codes listed for aspect, picture etc. but none of them worked with 1.03. I just upgraded to 1.25 and wondering if those discrete codes would work now.

Thanks

I have a harmony remote used with a TH-50PX60U and v1.25 of the EEPROM update. The aspect button on the harmony remote works, but only as a toggle to switch between all the available aspect settings, just like the TV own remote. I would love to have a discrete for FULL and JUST since these are the only two I use and I always switch between them with SD, HD and SD broadcast on HD channels.

Cloner

techman707,

I have the 42PX60U (1024x768 res.) Contrast is set to +10, but I've tried higher and lower settings on everything to stop the clayface, and nothing has worked. I think it's fair to assume most posters here truly scrutinize PQ, so more people would have mentioned clayface/blur/smear as a problem. Maybe I received a bad set. It's just too distracting not to notice. Oooph.

I saw exactly the same defect on my (ex-) 50PX60U built in April '06. I had to be 15' away from the set just to bear with it. My clayface test was John Madden's face in NBC NFL games. For the 5 month I had the Panny, the only time I was ok with it was US Open Tennis on CBS. Tried all sort of adjustment and firmware upgrade except 1.25 (too late.) Didn't help other than reducing macroblock noise in the expense of resolution. Did firmware v1.25 help your set?

I was so annoyed (Panny service didn't help at all) that I eventually replaced it with Vizio P50HDTV. Six weeks and still happy. I sit 7' away now. I was rediculed for "going backward". LOL.

Many people won't believe us. Maybe their set don't have the problem. But I checked quite a few stores and all Panny 60U had the problem, more or less. (I trusted Consumer Reports without checking first in store. I thought nothing could go wrong based on my experience with Dell plasma and RCA CRT HDTV. How wrong I was.)

Here is a simple test for 60U: when there are computer-generated (so camera can't be a source) rolling or moving text on screen, check closely from, say, 2' away where you can see individual pixel. Do you see individual pixel in straight line jumping left/right (and maybe up/down) by one pixel? If so, regardless of SD/ED/HD, it's not right. Jumping pixels reduce the perceived resolution and may cause clayface in image processing. You may try adjustment but I bet it won't help.

Another test is checking movie credit text rolling up at the end of any OTA or DVD movie.

What were your settings? Do you have a cable box or satellite? I have the 50" 600U which is the exact same glass as the 60U and I have never seen or owned a better TV. The PQ on SD and HD are unbeatable. I have Insight cable using HDMI coming from a Moto 6412 III DVR. Settings are Standard, Pic +14, Sharpness -15, and everything else 0. That's my $0.02

what is the approximate life expectancy on these sets?

I want to buy a TH-37PX60U for our bedroom - no games, just TV and DVDs. Use would be ~1-3 hours a day.

60,000 hours to 1/2 life, according to Panasonic.