TDC775 Tahoe Pace 700 Series - High Definition DVR [Text View]

wildrock

12-19-06, 10:11 PM

Will see if it has any software glitches as the days go by. For info- my Firmware is Version 9.21.Just got my Tahoe today. Bresnan has begun to deploy them extensively here in western MT. I expect that this will be one of the boxes that will see a lot of deployment in the upcoming year. May this thread thrive! :p (even though I was getting ready to start a new one in the HDTV dvr section).

My Firmware is 9.23 and S/W v.78.27-0515.

Just hooked it up to replace my Motorola 6412 pIII that I couldn't stand. First impressions of the Pace tahoe is that it is lighter, quiter, and cooler running than the 6412. The HD image is outstanding, but I haven't noticed if it really is any better than the 6412. I'll run it through the menus and optimize the SD and see how the video circuits are for scaling and deinterlacing.

I'm excited about the eSATA, so I can at least record more than the 12 hours of HD the 6412 gave me. I'll check in later after I've had some time to check out the box.

wildrock

12-22-06, 04:23 AM

Ok, so I'm trying to get the settings optimized for resolution. HD is fine at 1080i. But when I try to get the SD set, it is a bit akward. To get the image in the right aspect, I have to choose 480i, with auto letterbox on. Then I have to hit the fill button on my westy 37w3. If auto letterbox is off, the screen is too wide. Without fill, too narrow. If I use 480p, with no auto letterbox, the aspect is fine, but I get garbage lines on top. If I use 720p, I get the best image, but the image is stretched out, and garbage on top. If I use...Well you get the point.

The only setting that seems right is 480i, auto letterbox, with panel set to fill. But then if I switch to HD, I have to remember to un-fill the screen. PITA. And the picture at 480i is really awful. Grainy and interlace artifacts. So I'm not sure what to do here. Anybody else played with these settings and come up with a better solution? Am I missing something? I didn't have these same problems with the moto 6412.

But on the other hand, I get much better response to the remote, and haven't had any lockups. And more recording time and expansion options. Guess it means I'll spend even less time in SD. And Bresnan couldn't verify if there was a way to program in the 30 second skip.

Oh, and this is over HDMI.

Thanks

RealWing

12-22-06, 11:12 AM

schaffer970

12-22-06, 12:11 PM

Just picked up a TDC775 from Bresnan yesterday. I also still have my Moto 6412. I am going to rent both boxes for a month to see whether there are any worthwhile differences. The one thing I noticed last night after I hooked up the Pace is that the graphics from the box didn't seem as smooth as those from the Moto. Other than that it would appear that the Pace at this point is simply a clone of the Moto (with the changes to the resolution output). Hopefully they will add features. I plan to pause frames from both boxes and try to compare image quality this weekend - we'll see how it goes.

wildrock

12-22-06, 02:33 PM

Great idea doing a side by side. My initial comparison of the two (Over HDMI):

HD PQ: tie (though my memory is fallable here)
SD PQ: 6412
Heat: Tahoe is cooler
Sound level: 6412 quieter when cool, Tahoe quiter when hot (6412 fan is annoying)
Remote response (using same remote on both): Tahoe by a mile
FF: Tahoe faster and smoother, quicker response
Resolution setup: 6412
Recording time: Tahoe, 160GB vs. 120GB
External drive: Tahoe (eSATA)
Input config: Tahoe, component pass-through, audio passthrough
OSD: 6412, more status info

Let me know what you come up with, on your side by side. For me, the benefits of having larger hard drive and eSATA, plus good remote response and no lockups (I'm lucky I didn't throw the remote through the screen or crush it on the 64121) outweigh the downside of poor SD PQ and inferior resolution/letter-pillar box options. If I never have to look at an SD commercial again, I'll never miss it. ;) Maybe some firmware/software updates will improve the SD issues. Glad to have another Bresnan user on thread!

wildrock

12-23-06, 04:14 PM

Had another odd thing happen last night. In the middle of playing a recorded show, I hit the rewind button, and the screen went blank. Switched back to a broadcasting channel and it was ok. But when I went to play anything recorded, it was just blank. Had to reboot the box (unplugged it for a minute). When it came up, I noticed that my % of space used by the dvr had dropped from 26% to 12% for the five shows. Three of tghe five shows played fine, but two movies I had recorded would only come up with the delete button when I tried to play them--nothing left, so I had to delete them.

So obviously this box still has some firmware/software problems. Hope the word starts filtering back to Pace, or whomever is writing the updates for this box.

lindend

12-24-06, 11:55 AM

So obviously this box still has some firmware/software problems. Hope the word starts filtering back to Pace, or whomever is writing the updates for this box.

Hi,

I'm a member of the Tahoe software team and yes we do monitor your experiences on this forum. :)

For the recording that played back back, I'd be grateful if you could answer the following:

1. Was this on an analog channel?
2. How long was the box up at this point?

If you don't know if it was analog, you can check (assuming the recording still exists), by going into diagnostics (page 25) and looking at the attributes for that particular recording.

Had to reboot the box (unplugged it for a minute).

FYI..safest way to reboot is to go into standby, wait 20 seconds and pull the power.

Three of tghe five shows played fine, but two movies I had recorded would only come up with the delete button when I tried to play them--nothing left, so I had to delete them.

Do you know if these were analog also?

lindend

12-24-06, 11:58 AM

Ok, so I'm trying to get the settings optimized for resolution. HD is fine at 1080i. But when I try to get the SD set, it is a bit akward.

I'm sorry, but could you clarify some things for me?

1. Are you using the Power Menu (i.e. Power + Menu buttons back to back) to configure video output resolutions and auto pillar boxing?

2. Have you tried the same settings on the Component outputs? If so, what were the results?

lindend

12-24-06, 12:13 PM

Other than that it would appear that the Pace at this point is simply a clone of the Moto (with the changes to the resolution output). Hopefully they will add features.

Its true that both Tahoe and the 6412 run TV Guide so the primary User Interface/User experience will, by definition, be very similar.

But Tahoe is by no means a clone. Here are a couple of significant (IMHO) software and hardware differences:

1. eSATA port is functional (as wildrock pointed out).
2. HDD spin down in standby (if you use it in your bedroom etc.).
3. Lots of diagnostics enhancements/details.
4. PowerMenu for configuring video outputs, captions and front panel/energy settings.
5. Lots of additional video outputs (as wildrock also pointed out).
6. Front panel notification of DRM attributes (lock icon), HD content, surround sound.
7. Front panel display of active tuner (both recording and playback).

There are other differences, but I'll leave it up to you guys to explore and find out. :D

wildrock

12-24-06, 01:18 PM

Hi,

I'm a member of the Tahoe software team and yes we do monitor your experiences on this forum. :) Hi Linden. Most excellent to see you here! I'd say that gives you a big one up on the moto team, who never even acknowledged our existence on the 6412 thread. :D

For the recording that played back back, I'd be grateful if you could answer the following:

1. Was this on an analog channel?The recording that it originally locked up on was an analog channel (USA, channel 53 on Bresnan). This show did playback, though after the reboot.
2. How long was the box up at this point?About 3 days 8 hours.

If you don't know if it was analog, you can check (assuming the recording still exists), by going into diagnostics (page 25) and looking at the attributes for that particular recording.OK, I'm intrigued here. I'm not sure what you mean by page 25 of diagnostics. Just how do I get there? :)

FYI..safest way to reboot is to go into standby, wait 20 seconds and pull the power. Many thanks for the tip. Nice to know there's a more graceful way. Going to have to put in the UPS I've been planning on using, to avoid inadvertant power outages. Does this tactic preserve programming info and/or software load? Can an outage corrupt the box?

Do you know if these were analog also?The recordings I lost were HD movies. Thanks again for coming on thread to learn about our experiences and help out!

wildrock

12-24-06, 02:00 PM

I'm sorry, but could you clarify some things for me?

1. Are you using the Power Menu (i.e. Power + Menu buttons back to back) to configure video output resolutions and auto pillar boxing?Yes, that's how I was doing it.

Have you tried the same settings on the Component outputs? If so, what were the results?No I didn't hookup any component cables. I will do so and get back to you. It might be a few days, as it is christmas time. :D Also, there are so many different configurations with a combination of the 4 resolution settings (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i), any of which can be yes or no, combined with the auto pillar box (yes or no), that it can get a bit confusing trying all of the possibilties. Then add into the mix the fact that I need to use the fill or standard setting on the westy's remote to get the right aspect ratio, and then switch it every time I go from SD to HD. I thought about writing out a little chart to record my impressions, but that didn't strike me as something I really wanted to do.

Couple that with trying to compare the PQ of using the Tahoe's built in scalar and deinterlacer for SD vs. using the westy 37w3's. I did this on the 6412 by hooking up the composite signal, and used pip on the display, just changing the SD output to i or p and not having to add pillar boxing into the mix, as the 6412's default setting was just fine (I think it was set to pillar box). I found that the westy's vp did a better job on SD than did the 6412's (at least to my eyes). So I didn't really make it through the comparisons on the Tahoe like I did on the 6412, due to getting a bit confused as to where I was in trying all of the resolution/pillar box/fill configs. Hope I'm not making the waters more muddied here.

I think that a big issue will be on how the auto pillar boxing affects image stretching, and the issue of screen garbage on the top of the image. The screen garbage seemed to be omni-present and consistent in one mode. And then trying to tell you exactly which combination of settings I had is where I lose mental continuity. :rolleyes:

For the auto pillar box option, having it off at 480i leaves the image stretched. Turning it on makes it squished. So the only way to compensate is for me to turn the "fill" option on for the westy with pillar box on. Which makes the image too big when I change the channel to HD, and having the image scaled again by the westy.

Another observation is that for the Tahoe, the PQ on the digital SD channels is considerable better than the analog channels. Much more obviousy so than on the 6412. The analog SD on the Tahoe is noticeably inferior to the 6412 in my configurations. It just seems that it doesn't deinterlace at all properly and is very grainy. But why the image doesn't look as good when the westy is fed a 480i signal is beyond me. I no longer have the 6412 to do side by sides, but maybe shaffer970, who still has both boxes can give us his impressions.

I'll try to come back with a bit more concise set of observations in a few days. I'll throw the component tests into the mix.

Want to give out a little secret? Like if 30 second skip is built into the software and activated? :D And maybe what the remote code is??? Bresnan CS didn't have a clue.

schaffer970

12-24-06, 02:28 PM

Lindend, really appreciate you being on the forum! Didn't mean to disparage the Tahoe by calling it a Moto clone. As you said, what we can see so far is mostly the TV Guide and yes it would look the same on both boxes. Yes, I was aware of the extra ports, particulary the eSATA port and do like the front screen information. The eSATA port is the primary reason that I moved to the Tahoe.

OK, so give up some information on how to access the advanced screens! :D If we are on the AVS Forums, by and large we like to tinker.

Again, really glad to have you on the forum and feel free to solicit information from us if it might in any way help in your development efforts.

lindend

12-24-06, 04:03 PM

OK, I'm intrigued here. I'm not sure what you mean by page 25 of diagnostics. Just how do I get there? :)

While watching TV, hit Power, then the select button. This will put you into diagnostics (it also will go into diags on the 6412, but 6412 diagnostics will look significantly different).

On the diagnostics main menu, select content listing page, then the recording(s) in question that you are interested in. This particular page is read only.

FWIW, please be careful in diagnostics. You can make some permanent changes in there that can't be undone (i.e. like format the HDD).

After reading your posts on the 3412 boards about the inability to see storage space, take a look at the PVR status and HDD status pages and report back to us what you see. ;)

I think there are other goodies in diags that might intrigue you also.

Many thanks for the tip. Nice to know there's a more graceful way. Going to have to put in the UPS I've been planning on using, to avoid inadvertant power outages. Does this tactic preserve programming info and/or software load? Can an outage corrupt the box?

No. But it absolutely ensures that the filesystem is shut down properly. Although most people don't think about it in these terms, a DVR is like a mini-PC and you don't just turn off a PC, you shut it down. Failure to shut down a Windows (or Linux-based) PC will result in a filesystem recovery of some type (i.e. checkdsk on Windows) being run. :eek:

Same thing is true for DVRs, but you just never see the filesystem checker being run.

The recordings I lost were HD movies. Thanks again for coming on thread to learn about our experiences and help out!

I've seen reports of analog recordings having playback issue, but not an HD movie being unplayable or becoming unplayable.

1. If/when this ever happens again for an HD recording, please post all the details from the content listing page.
2. Were these recordings previously playable and then became unplayable?

lindend

12-24-06, 04:07 PM

Didn't mean to disparage the Tahoe by calling it a Moto clone.

No offense taken. Just want to be sure that it was clear to all that this wasn't just a clone.

OK, so give up some information on how to access the advanced screens! :D If we are on the AVS Forums, by and large we like to tinker.

Please see my post to wildrock above to get into diags. There are multiple new screen in diagnostics. Same key sequence as the 6412.

In fact, the same hidden key sequences will work too in diags. However, some do different stuff!

lindend

12-24-06, 04:20 PM

Yes, that's how I was doing it.

Another observation is that for the Tahoe, the PQ on the digital SD channels is considerable better than the analog channels. Much more obviousy so than on the 6412. The analog SD on the Tahoe is noticeably inferior to the 6412 in my configurations.

Is this live or time shifted?

BTW, when running TV Guide, the only for sure way to know that you are live is to tune to a channel. Susequent actions (i.e. pause and then hitting the live key) will still be in time shift mode (but at the end of the time shift buffer).

Want to give out a little secret? Like if 30 second skip is built into the software and activated? :D And maybe what the remote code is??? Bresnan CS didn't have a clue.

Sorry to have bad news, but the 30 second skip is not functional in this release. :( There will be a future release that addresses this issue. Can't go into specifics on this bug, but if you look through various 3412/6412 forums, you'll see similar reports.

When it works, the remote code for 30 second skip is identical to the 3412/6412 implementation.

Fireball

12-25-06, 05:32 PM

Lindend:

Are all of the codes for the 775 identical to the 6412? I'm looking for discerete power codes. If anyone has a Pronto CCF file they would like to share, that would be nice :)

lindend

12-25-06, 05:52 PM

Lindend:

Are all of the codes for the 775 identical to the 6412?

Any remote that works with the 6412 should work with the TDC775, so yes, the codes should be functional on either box.

BTW, who is your Cable Operator?

Fireball

12-25-06, 07:36 PM

Thanks Lindend. The cable operator is Bresnan (Western Montana).

Does this unit have discrete on/off IR codes? It seems that the Motorola doesn't :confused:

lindend

12-25-06, 08:02 PM

Thanks Lindend. The cable operator is Bresnan (Western Montana).

The reason I asked was I saw San Jose in your sig and I didn't think Bresnan served San Jose.

Does this unit have discrete on/off IR codes? It seems that the Motorola doesn't :confused:

There is a power toggle code that will put the box into and take it out of standby (the same code works on the 6412).

Is the power toggle insufficient for your needs?

BTW, standby really doesn't turn the box off per se. It will stop any non-linear recordings and eventually spin the HDD down, but there are some core software components still up and functional.

schaffer970

12-26-06, 12:07 PM

Lindend, the toggle works, but what most of us would like is the ability to send a code that would turn off the box no matter whether it is on or off (ie if it is off it stays off). The ability to do this makes it easier when controlling things with a universal remote where you may be turning off and on several devices with one button push (using a Logitech Harmony remote).

Thanks!

lindend

12-26-06, 12:46 PM

Lindend, the toggle works, but what most of us would like is the ability to send a code that would turn off the box no matter whether it is on or off (ie if it is off it stays off).

Ok, I understand now. Harmony remotes are pretty cool.

I don't think this is currently possible, but I'll check for you when I get back in the office (I'm out all this week).

Are there any other feature requests/things you'd like to see changed and/or enhanced?

Fireball

12-26-06, 06:06 PM

Discrete codes are a must for custom installers that are using Crestron/AMX automation systems. Without them, current or video sensing equipment costing more than the DVD player itself is required to determine the power status. So if PACE can implement discrete power codes, I'd be quite happy :)

stressdoc

12-26-06, 06:22 PM

Linden,

I have several questions about the TDC775 that you may be able to answer. I recently got one of these boxes from my cable company. They gave me the Operator’s Manual and a chart that shows how to hook it up, but nothing else. Between these two documents, I still don’t know if it will do what I want.

I have Windows MCE running on a computer that is hooked to my TV (Panasonic TH-50PK60U). The computer has 2 SD TV tuners that were hooked up to a pair of SD cable boxes. The TV was hooked up to the computer with a HDMI cable. This all worked well, I could watch one channel while watching another.

Since the THC775 was advertised to have 2 tuners, I though that I could replace one of the cable boxes with the THC775 and still be able to watch (and record) HD from the pace box. The MCE seems to be able to change channels on the Pace box with a IR blaster, but I don’t see how to set it up to do SD and HD simultaneously.

1. How do you change from one of the tuners to the other?

2. Does the THC775 output the HD (or SD) over the 1394 cable?

3. Can I output SD from one output and HD from the other?

4. Can I change channels with the 1394 cable?

5. Is there any documentation that tells how all of this works?

Thanks in advance for any help that you can offer.

Map

wildrock

12-26-06, 07:33 PM

While watching TV, hit Power, then the select button. This will put you into diagnostics. After reading your posts on the 3412 boards about the inability to see storage space, take a look at the PVR status and HDD status pages and report back to us what you see. ;)

I think there are other goodies in diags that might intrigue you also.Very nice config and diagnostics section. Much nicer than the 6412's. Will spend some time in there poking around.

I've seen reports of analog recordings having playback issue, but not an HD movie being unplayable or becoming unplayable.

1. If/when this ever happens again for an HD recording, please post all the details from the content listing page.
2. Were these recordings previously playable and then became unplayable?I did not test the recordings prior to the problems to see if they would play. What I did notice immediately was that the % recording space used dropped significantly after the reboot. And after I deleted the movies, it didn't change any further.

wildrock

12-26-06, 07:35 PM

Is this live or time shifted?

BTW, when running TV Guide, the only for sure way to know that you are live is to tune to a channel. Susequent actions (i.e. pause and then hitting the live key) will still be in time shift mode (but at the end of the time shift buffer).It is live. I'll be more specific when I go back through them. And I'll add component cables in as a comparison.

lindend

12-26-06, 07:44 PM

I recently got one of these boxes from my cable company. They gave me the Operator’s Manual and a chart that shows how to hook it up, but nothing else. Between these two documents, I still don’t know if it will do what I want.

The online manual can be found here:

Tahoe Manual (http://www.pacemicro.com/media/americas/PDF/manuals/tdc775_manual.pdf)

Since the THC775 was advertised to have 2 tuners, I though that I could replace one of the cable boxes with the THC775 and still be able to watch (and record) HD from the pace box. The MCE seems to be able to change channels on the Pace box with a IR blaster, but I don’t see how to set it up to do SD and HD simultaneously.

I think I understand what you asking, but let me restate my understanding to see if I'm correct. You want to be able to configure the TDC775 to output two different media types (HD and SD) at the same time? If so, this won't be possible. The two tuners can be used to record HD and SD simultaneously, but you can only output one at a given time. If I don't understand what you're asking, please re-ask.

1. How do you change from one of the tuners to the other?

The swap button is the primary means. However, if you press channel up/down while recording on a given tuner, you will get a dialog asking if you want to change tuners.

2. Does the THC775 output the HD (or SD) over the 1394 cable?

It will send out an MPEG stream over 1394. The stream can contain either SD or HD and you can watch the output on a 1394 TV or record on a 1394 DVHS.

3. Can I output SD from one output and HD from the other?

Not sure if I understand what you're asking here. Could you restate?

4. Can I change channels with the 1394 cable?

Yes. As long as you have a 1394 TV that is capable of sending remote commands over the 1394 bus, you can change channels with a 1394 remote.

wildrock

12-26-06, 07:46 PM

One new problem. When I go into video on demand, i lose the video signal over HDMI. I still have the video signal over composite. Sometimes I can get around the VOD menus for a while before the video drops. In all cases when I start a program, the video will drop and not resume until I leave VOD.

lindend

12-26-06, 07:49 PM

What I did notice immediately was that the % recording space used dropped significantly after the reboot. And after I deleted the movies, it didn't change any further.

If you ever run into a scenario where a reboot causes you to regain significant disk space and a recording isn't playable, please post. Especially if the recording was digital (SD or HD).

BTW, how long have you had the box? I know what software release your currently running, but I want to find out if it was running an earlier build before this latest release.

lindend

12-26-06, 07:58 PM

One new problem. When I go into video on demand, i lose the video signal over HDMI.

Point of clarification. When you say no video, do you mean no video or no video and no graphics?

I still have the video signal over composite. Sometimes I can get around the VOD menus for a while before the video drops. In all cases when I start a program, the video will drop and not resume until I leave VOD.

Please time it and see if its 5 seconds when it cuts out.

When you try your component connection, please try VOD also. I strongly suspect that you won't have this issue with YPbPr.

Couple of other things that will be helpful in tracking down this issue:

1. Does HDMI hotplug help?
2. If no, does the video cut out after 5 seconds or do you immediately have no video?
3. What is you exact monitor type?
4. Please post all details in the HDMI diagnostics page (its under the interfaces page on the main screen). Especially report the HDCP fields.

trabbic

12-27-06, 10:03 AM

lindend,

Thank you for your time here. This extra effort is the kind of thing that we love around here.

My cable provider is testing your boxes, and I have been offered to be a tester, I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. How far away is the TV guide software update, that turns the 30 second skip back on? (I have a 6412 now running the older TV guide software, before they disabled it, and would be giving the skip up, if I switched to your box.)

2. Is the HD Picture in Picture feature functional with the TV guide software?

Thanks again.

Chris

lindend

12-27-06, 11:06 AM

Hi Chris,

lindend,

Thank you for your time here. This extra effort is the kind of thing that we love around here.

Thanks for your kind comments.

My cable provider is testing your boxes, and I have been offered to be a tester, I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.

If you don't mind, could you tell me what MSO you might be testing for?

1. How far away is the TV guide software update, that turns the 30 second skip back on? (I have a 6412 now running the older TV guide software, before they disabled it, and would be giving the skip up, if I switched to your box.)

Sorry, I can't comment on this in a public forum (and I can't comment via PM either just in case people try that route ;) ). I would suggest that you contact the MSO for future release timing.

In general, I can only comment on publicly released software and/or hardware.

2. Is the HD Picture in Picture feature functional with the TV guide software?

Not at the current time.

Fireball

12-27-06, 03:20 PM

A couple of questions:

1. When the unit is recording and I want to shut it off, it will ask if you want to stop the recording in order to power off the unit. Is it possible to have a preference to power off after the recording has been completed?

2. If you select a program to record in the future, I assume the unit will power on, record the program, and power off when finished (haven't tried it yet...though I'd ask:) ).

What DVHS models have been tested with this unit?

lindend

12-27-06, 04:40 PM

1. When the unit is recording and I want to shut it off, it will ask if you want to stop the recording in order to power off the unit. Is it possible to have a preference to power off after the recording has been completed?

Sorry, but this feature is not available with TV Guide.

We have some enhancements in this area though:

1. Background downloads. If your Cable company broadcasts a new image, the image can be downloaded in the background while you watch TV or record.

2. Reboot optimization. After a background donwload, if you're doing a recording, the box won't reboot until the recording(s) complete.

2. If you select a program to record in the future, I assume the unit will power on, record the program, and power off when finished (haven't tried it yet...though I'd ask:) ).

Yes, your assumption is correct. The machine will come out of standby, do the recording and then go back to standby.

What DVHS models have been tested with this unit?

What I can publicly say is we've tested it with several DVHS devices. Is there a particular model you want to know about?

wildrock

12-27-06, 05:23 PM

Linden,

Here's my basic config information:

Running Tahoe to a Westinghouse 37w3. I have HDMI, component and composite all running out to westy.

I have the Tahoe set to output 1080i and 480i with auto pillarbox on, and set to a 16:9 aspect ratio.

Software: 9.23

BTW, how long have you had the box? I know what software release your currently running, but I want to find out if it was running an earlier build before this latest release.I received box on December 21st.

Point of clarification. When you say no video, do you mean no video or no video and no graphics?No video or graphics after image is lost.

Please time it and see if its 5 seconds when it cuts out.Not consistently. When I go to VOD, I briefly see (<1/2 second) the menu graphics, then the picture cuts out for a second (resolution switches from 1080i to 480i if coming from an HD channel), then it may come back on. It can either 1) not come back on; 2) come on for 5 seconds and turn off; 3) stay on and work fine. Not sure why the variability.

When you try your component connection, please try VOD also. I strongly suspect that you won't have this issue with YPbPr.Correct. It displays the VOD properly.

Couple of other things that will be helpful in tracking down this issue:

1. Does HDMI hotplug help?Yes. Unplugging the HDMI and then plugging it back in while the picture is blanked can restore the picture.

2. If no, does the video cut out after 5 seconds or do you immediately have no video?variable, as noted above.

4. Please post all details in the HDMI diagnostics page (its under the interfaces page on the main screen). Especially report the HDCP fields.Here they are. I rebooted both the set top and the tv, went into VOD via HDMI. Then went to the diagnostics page:

Device Info
Device connected: 5c 85 3 37 1 0 0 0
Repeater No
HDCP Supported Yes
Pref resolution 1080i
Audio Capable Yes (PCM)

A/V Status Video Audio
Enabled Yes Yes
Mute No Yes
In Video Format 1080i
Out video format 1080i
Video Constrained None
Audio Sample Rate 48 KHz
Audio format AC3
HDP status Disabled

Couple of other notes:

A couple of times when the VOD lost video on HDMI, when I switched to composite, there was a message from the Tahoe stating that it had lost HDCP, with an OK button to hit.

And when the VOD does work on all three inputs (HDMI, composite, component) I am seeing a different aspect for each. The HDMI is squished, the component is correct, the composite is stretched. This is with the Westinghouse's fill mode set to standard (no alteration of signal).

Hope this helps get it sorted out. Thanks again Linden for checking in on this!

Sourapple613

12-27-06, 06:44 PM

Lindend,
Could you please explain how to enable the ethernet function? I am a bresnan customer and I have gotten into the diagnostic screen and it said Ethernet wasnt enabled

What exactly can you do with the ethernet function anyway?

Thanks

Fireball

12-27-06, 07:08 PM

Thanks Lindend. For the DVHS models, have you tested the JVC 30000?

It would be nice if you could mount a NAS and save recordings via ethernet :)

lindend

12-27-06, 08:38 PM

Could you please explain how to enable the ethernet function? I am a bresnan customer and I have gotten into the diagnostic screen and it said Ethernet wasnt enabled

It is not enabled in your build. Please note that many options in the interface page may be disabled for a variety of reasons (i.e. the software may not be functional in the release or that option may not be configured in your area).

So don't be overly concerned if you see a disabled interface in diags. It doesn't necessarily indicate a problem.

What exactly can you do with the ethernet function anyway?

The TDC775 contains a DOCSIS CableModem and if its activated, then you would access it via the ethernet port.

lindend

12-27-06, 09:24 PM

Thanks Lindend. For the DVHS models, have you tested the JVC 30000?

I know that we've tested with JVC DVHS but I don't have access to specific model #'s right now. Do you have a particular concern?

It would be nice if you could mount a NAS and save recordings via ethernet :)

Ok, I'll add that to the feature request list. ;)

trabbic

12-28-06, 08:02 AM

If you don't mind, could you tell me what MSO you might be testing for?

Buckeye Cablesystem in Toledo, OH.

I just got the box hooked up yesterday night, and so far the general impression is very good.

Still getting some of my configuration setup.

Thanks again for your help here, lindend, and I understand that you can't comment about software releases!

First difference I noticed is that the guide is stretched to fill the screen, any configuration to control this?

lindend

12-28-06, 08:45 AM

First difference I noticed is that the guide is stretched to fill the screen, any configuration to control this?

Sorry, there is no option to control the aspect ratio of graphics.

lindend

12-28-06, 08:50 AM

Software: 9.23

Just thought about something. Given that you are running 9.23, even though you deleted the two unplayable HD recordings, we still may be able to recover some details about what happened from diagnostics.

On the PVR status page, below the disk statistics, there are a number of status fields. Please post the values for these fields.

Note: many of the fields are not initially visible and you'll need to hit the down arrow to scroll down.

Thanks.

Raymondh14

12-28-06, 08:57 AM

Hello,

I am helping test the TDC775D for Buckeye Cablesystem in Toledo. The following was posted on our local email list set up for this testing:

Things I've found that could be problems are:
The TV display and aspect controls have no effect no matter how they are set. The auto-pillarbox doesn't work. The zoom feature on the remote has no effect on the picture and the box does not respond with the blink of the icon as it does when using the other remote control function keys.
I have an analog TV that does not display HD programming in HD format. I normally have it connected using a receiver. The Pace controller is connected to the receiver by RCA style video and audio cables (not digital) and from the receiver to the TV. I also tested connecting directly to the TV through the coax. The aspect controls have no effect using either connection method.
HD programming displays as full-screen with the picture stretched vertically or in a rectangular stretched picture with black bars to the right and left but not top and bottom. This makes any HD programming unwatchable. The Motorola box displayed HD programming in letter-box (wide-screen) format with any non-HD programming on the HD channel such as some commercials in a smaller box center screen. This was quite acceptable in comparison. I have a PC with a TV card connected to the device with an S-Video cable and this connection shows the same symptoms. With the PC I can change the aspect to 16:9 so the stretched images look correct, but this is what I would have expected. There is no such option available on my TV.

Other than this issue, which is quite serious to me, I like this device and I'm hoping there is a solution.

lindend

12-28-06, 09:46 AM

Hi Raymond,

I have an analog TV that does not display HD programming in HD format. I normally have it connected using a receiver. The Pace controller is connected to the receiver by RCA style video and audio cables (not digital) and from the receiver to the TV. I also tested connecting directly to the TV through the coax.

At this point in time, the video output on SD outputs (RF, RCA, S-video) all produce anamorphic output. This enables users to make recodings to their VCRs and play the content back with the correct aspect ratio.

If the output was automatically letterboxed, 16x9 viewers would not be able to get rid of the letter box on their recordings.

The aspect controls have no effect using either connection method.

There is currently no way to control the aspect ratio on the SD outputs. HD outputs (Component and HDMI) do offer aspect ratio controls.

I have a PC with a TV card connected to the device with an S-Video cable and this connection shows the same symptoms. With the PC I can change the aspect to 16:9 so the stretched images look correct, but this is what I would have expected. There is no such option available on my TV.

Yes, this is the anamorphic behavior I described above.

Other than this issue, which is quite serious to me, I like this device and I'm hoping there is a solution.

I understand your requirements, and I have logged your request to support letterbox on SD outputs.

trabbic

12-28-06, 10:58 AM

Here is a request for the next firmware revision. Make the blue power LED dim with the display, it is VERY bright in a light controlled home theater.

I am really liking this box, nice options, great picture. Don't get discouraged if you only get requests and complaints, most forum posts tend to lead toward what is going wrong rather than stuff that is working perfectly.

wildrock

12-28-06, 02:29 PM

Here is a request for the next firmware revision. Make the blue power LED dim with the display, it is VERY bright in a light controlled home theater.I agree. I taped my power light over, as walking through my living room at night was like walking into a lighthouse beacon shining from the Tahoe. :cool: It was even casting shadows in my bedroom if I left the door open.

schaffer970

12-28-06, 06:12 PM

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but last night I was thinking the power light was rather bright. Lindend, tell the guys that they can buy the cheap leds :D

trabbic

12-29-06, 10:47 AM

I just had a crash of the box.

I was watching a digital channel, and was playing with the zoom feature, then the video went away followed by the audio and then the box rebooted, with loss of guide data, I did NOT loose my scheduled recordings, I had no recordings on the drive. Connected via HDMI output through a DVI adapter.

S/W Ver: 78.27 - 0515
Firmware: 9.21

lindend

12-29-06, 11:36 AM

I was watching a digital channel, and was playing with the zoom feature

1. Was this SD or HD?
2. Is this repeatable?
3. What type of monitor and what are your auto-pillarbox and resolution settings?
4. How long had the box been running before the crash?
5. Do you know if HDCP was active on the channel in question? You can check the HDMI status page in diagnostics if you go into standby on that channel.

trabbic

12-29-06, 02:10 PM

1. Was this SD or HD?

SD

2. Is this repeatable?

No, it only did it once...

3. What type of monitor and what are your auto-pillarbox and resolution settings?

CRT Rear Projection, auto pillarbox, 1080i and 720p, outputs. I have since changed this to 1080i only, as the scalar in the box is better than my TV, and there was an excessive delay when changing from a 720P to 1080i channel (I don't think this was because of the box, but rather my TV.

4. How long had the box been running before the crash?

About 3 hours.

5. Do you know if HDCP was active on the channel in question? You can check the HDMI status page in diagnostics if you go into standby on that channel.

Yes it was active, the channel in question was an HBO channel.

Also, the screen became garbled during the changes, and I pressed zoom again, that is when the box crashed.

It is running fine now and I have been using it since I posted.

Thanks for your timely response.

-Chris

Sourapple613

12-30-06, 12:39 AM

I agree. I taped my power light over, as walking through my living room at night was like walking into a lighthouse beacon shining from the Tahoe. :cool: It was even casting shadows in my bedroom if I left the door open.

i was able to turn my lights down...
i belive i did it in the settings that was explained earlier how to get in there earlier and there was a setting to dim them

trabbic

12-30-06, 08:51 AM

i was able to turn my lights down...
i belive i did it in the settings that was explained earlier how to get in there earlier and there was a setting to dim them

I think that is just for the clock display, not the power light, but I will double check the effects.

wildrock

01-01-07, 01:33 AM

Linden,

Ok, I had another "event." Last night I went into VOD. It was odd, because when I went in, there wasn't the usual annoying VOD sound. Everything was working fine before that. Nothing else unusual happened. Went in and chose a movie, and the video went blank. So I backed out, and could still see the graphics. But could not get in and view video. So went back to regular channels, but couldn't get any video--not on HDMI, component or composite. I could see all of the TV Guide channel info and graphics, but no video or audio anywhere. Click on a program, and it was blank. So I had to reboot the box, and went to bed. Today,when I checked, I had lost many of my HD movies again (not all). And I had checked each to make sure they were playable right after I recorded them. And I had just finished watching a recorded HD movie, and deleted it (Fifth Element) before the VOD episode. The % used in the dvr has dropped considerably down after reboot, and the movies just come up with the delete button when I go to play them. But everything else works fine. So here's the diagnostic info you asked for.

On the PVR status page, below the disk statistics, there are a number of status fields. Please post the values for these fields.

Note: many of the fields are not initially visible and you'll need to hit the down arrow to scroll down.For the list of items beginning with the # Check Disk Failures, all of the entries are "0" except for the Total Overflows Seen, which is 29.

I've seen reports of analog recordings having playback issue, but not an HD movie being unplayable or becoming unplayable.

1. If/when this ever happens again for an HD recording, please post all the details from the content listing page.There's a lot of info for all of the different programs. I'll give you the info from one of the HD movies that I lost and one that I didn't. If you want more, if you send me an email or PM, I'll get the info to you. No need to clog the forum up with this, I'll hold on to all of the recordings until you tell me that you have all of the info you need to help figure out what's going on.

What I did note is that for each of the movies that was lost (I lost three movies out of 5), the MPEG file size in brackets is {0}. For the ones I didn't lose, the size is equal to the MPEG File Size. Also, the three lost movies all had the same L+F state flag: unknown, while all the other programs didn't have that.

This movie was lost:

Application data:
Waterworld

Metadata file size: 5624
MPEG file size: 13174308864 {0}
Trick File Size: 7289184 {7289184}
Clean Termination: Yes
Analog encoding: No
Content type: HD
Recording started at: 12/25/2006 02:00:12
Recording ended at: 12/25/2006 04:30:09
Play Time: 2:29:57
Digital Copy Permit: CCI_COPY_PERMITTED
Analog Copy Pemit: None
Broadcast Flag: No
Recording Overflows: 0
Recorded with build: 001-600-04-15-02-03
Discontinuities: 0
Avg. Bit Rate: 11714400
Disk full pauses: 0
Audio type: Dolby_Digital
Video type: MPEG2
Stream timeouts: 0
Navigation timeouts: 0
Trim offset: 0
Byte offset: 0
Tuner source: 2
Record session time: 8996780
Compact state flag: 0
L+F state flag: unknown

This one wasn't:

Application data:
Harry Potter/Goblet of Fire

Metadata file size: 5624
MPEG file size: 13683916800 {13683916800}
Trick File Size: 7846880 {7846880}
Clean Termination: Yes
Analog encoding: No
Content type: HD
Recording started at: 12/28/2006 22:00:15
Recording ended at: 12/29/2006 00:45:10
Play Time: 2:44:55
Digital Copy Permit: CCI_COPY_PERMITTED
Analog Copy Pemit: None
Broadcast Flag: No
Recording Overflows: 0
Recorded with build: 001-600-04-15-02-03
Discontinuities: 0
Avg. Bit Rate: 11064416
Disk full pauses: 0
Audio type: Dolby_Digital
Video type: MPEG2
Stream timeouts: 0
Navigation timeouts: 0
Trim offset: 0
Byte offset: 0
Tuner source:
Record session time: 9894630
Compact state flag: 1
L+F state flag: 0

lindend

01-01-07, 08:47 AM

Linden,
So I had to reboot the box, and went to bed.

How did you reboot the box? Did you pull the power?

Was this the first reboot after you recorded Waterworld?

You didn't do anything wrong, but these details will help as part of the investigation.

For the list of items beginning with the # Check Disk Failures, all of the entries are "0" except for the Total Overflows Seen, which is 29.

FYI...total overflows seen (29) isn't problematic in this situation and can be ignored.

Just to verify, TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES are both zero?

I'll hold on to all of the recordings until you tell me that you have all of the info you need to help figure out what's going on.

I think its safe to delete them at this point given your info below.

What I did note is that for each of the movies that was lost (I lost three movies out of 5), the MPEG file size in brackets is {0}. For the ones I didn't lose, the size is equal to the MPEG File Size.

Whenever you see either an MPEG size of {0}, the file will be unplayable.

My next request for you in the future is to monitor the

Compact state flag:

setting for all your good recordings (i.e. after you verify the recording(s) plays back, take a look at the compact state flag after a few hours or so). Its important to do this before something happens to the recordings.

If you can't monitor the Compact state flag:, I understand.

Thanks once again for all your help tracking this one down.

wildrock

01-01-07, 04:31 PM

How did you reboot the box? Did you pull the power?I followed your advice to turn it off with the power button, wait at least 20 seconds, then unplug and replug.

Was this the first reboot after you recorded Waterworld?Yes. The only other time I have rebooted it was after the first time I lost recordings over a week back.

Just to verify, TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES are both zero?Yes. Both are zero

My next request for you in the future is to monitor the

Compact state flag:

setting for all your good recordings (i.e. after you verify the recording(s) plays back, take a look at the compact state flag after a few hours or so). Its important to do this before something happens to the recordings.

If you can't monitor the Compact state flag:, I understand.

Thanks once again for all your help tracking this one down.Will do. And good luck tracking down the gremlins. Looking forward to the update!

lindend

01-01-07, 07:07 PM

I followed your advice to turn it off with the power button, wait at least 20 seconds, then unplug and replug.

Hmmmm....I've never seen this happen on a clean reboot before.

Ok, if you are willing, I'd like you to perform an additional experiment. If you've watched the content on your drive (and are potentially willing to lose it), please reboot your box a couple more times (two should be sufficient) and then tell me if any content has become unplayable.

Note: before you reboot, please play each recording briefly (i.e. 10-15 seconds) and verify they are ok before the reboot.

Obviously, only do the reboot when its convenient for you.

Based on your answers, I hope to have some recommendations on how to avoid this from happening again.

Will do. And good luck tracking down the gremlins. Looking forward to the update!

Just wanted to thanks for all the feedback. Its really appreciated and its helping us make our software better (and hopefully your viewing experience too).

wildrock

01-02-07, 03:36 AM

Hmmmm....I've never seen this happen on a clean reboot before.

Ok, if you are willing, I'd like you to perform an additional experiment. If you've watched the content on your drive (and are potentially willing to lose it), please reboot your box a couple more times (two should be sufficient) and then tell me if any content has become unplayable.

Note: before you reboot, please play each recording briefly (i.e. 10-15 seconds) and verify they are ok before the reboot.Ok, I checked the recordings, and they all were good. 6 HD recordings and 5 SD recordings. I noted the Compact state flags for them, and then proceeded to do two consecutive graceful reboots. All recordings were still playable, and state flags were the same. So then I went ahead and did an ungraceful reboot--just pulled the plug without turning it off first. All of the programs still played and state flags were the same. I'll watch it as I attempt to do other things, like go into VOD again (once the TVGuide reloads).

Ok, I went into VOD, and lost the video again, and had to reboot. After reboot, I waited for a half hour,and tried to go into VOD again, and lost the video signal again. Rebooted again. Checked all of the recorded material on the dvr and it all is fine. So I'm not sure what's up with the VOD. I'll try again tomorrow after the box has time to fully get all of its guide info and loads all the modules.

lindend

01-02-07, 08:20 AM

I noted the Compact state flags for them, and then proceeded to do two consecutive graceful reboots.

What was the value for the compact state flag?

Raymondh14

01-02-07, 09:37 AM

First, I appreciate having my request to have the aspect controls function on the SD ports delivered to the PACE developers. I did have to comment further on my reasons. The reply was, in part,

"At this point in time, the video output on SD outputs (RF, RCA, S-video) all produce anamorphic output. This enables users to make recodings to their VCRs and play the content back with the correct aspect ratio."

This is exactly why with my setup it's important to have the aspect controls function on all ports. The correct aspect for HD isn't full screen and if someone like me (IE. too cheap to buy HD yet..) tries to record on a VCR or DVDR from an HD channel, the recording has the wrong aspect.

Some of our testers seem to be running into a few problems but I've had good luck outside of my aspect problem. The box has been fine for me otherwise.

wildrock

01-02-07, 06:19 PM

What was the value for the compact state flag?Before reboots, the first 3 HD programs were 0, and the last three were 1. Today, 12 hours later, all programs are 1. All programs still play fine.

VOD works fine today, but I manually have to change to channel 1 to get it. Is it just me, or has TVGuide changed the menu system so that VOD is not a choice from the main Guide menu, or the mini menu on the bottom of the screen, being replaced by PPV?

lindend

01-02-07, 11:04 PM

Before reboots, the first 3 HD programs were 0, and the last three were 1. Today, 12 hours later, all programs are 1. All programs still play fine.

This behavior is expected. I will have to think about this some more to see if there is something that can help us narrow down why the content disappeared.

VOD works fine today

Is it working on both HDMI and component or just component?

Is it just me, or has TVGuide changed the menu system so that VOD is not a choice from the main Guide menu

Are you saying that their is no VOD button on the main menu?

If you have a VOD button on your remote, what happens when you press it?

wildrock

01-03-07, 12:17 AM

Is it working on both HDMI and component or just component?Both.

Are you saying that their is no VOD button on the main menu?There is no VOD button on the main menu (nor one on the quick menu). Very odd, as I know where it was, because I used it many a time. It's just gone.

If you have a VOD button on your remote, what happens when you press it?I go to VOD (channel 1) like I should. And today the VOD works fine. Go figure. I guess I got the box with all of the gremlins, eh? :confused:

lindend

01-03-07, 08:39 AM

There is no VOD button on the main menu (nor one on the quick menu). Very odd, as I know where it was, because I used it many a time. It's just gone.

The VOD button is dynamically created based on site configuration. If something changed in the configuration, the button could disappear.

lindend

01-03-07, 08:44 AM

Both....And today the VOD works fine. Go figure. I guess I got the box with all of the gremlins, eh?

Is anyone else in Bresnan using VOD with an HDMI monitor? If so, please post your experiences. We have not been able to replicate your HDMI issue with VOD so far in our labs.

RealWing

01-03-07, 07:18 PM

Lindend - First - I'd also like to welcome you to the forum. It is really refreshing to see a manufacturer actively participating to improve their product and to directly helping their indirect customers- as you are clearly doing.

I had recorded a HD broadcast tonight and part way through, when selecting Fast Forward, I encountered severe pixalization. (This did not happen early in the recording) When I selected Play - the picture was normal. I tried again and got the same problem. When I selected the next FF speed (ie selecting FF the second time), the pixalized picture froze. When I selected play, the picture was normal.

I checked the DVR Status diagnostic screen and only saw the following, which may or may not be significant:
Linear record reboots - 1
Overflows since boot- 31
Total overflows since boot - 85

My F/W version is 9.21

If you need more info - let me know> I have not deleted the recording.
Jim

lindend

01-03-07, 08:25 PM

Jim,

I had recorded a HD broadcast tonight and part way through, when selecting Fast Forward, I encountered severe pixalization. (This did not happen early in the recording) When I selected Play - the picture was normal. I tried again and got the same problem.

For this recording, if you play it at normal speed from start to finish, do you get macro-blocking (i.e. does the macro blocking only show up when you try a trick function)?

I checked the DVR Status diagnostic screen and only saw the following, which may or may not be significant:

Unfortunately, those particular stats are general and don't help us diagnose this particular problem. I would appreciate it if you could go to the Content Listing page and capture the diagnostic details for this recording. In particular, I'm interested in the overflow and bit rate information.

My F/W version is 9.21

Note: you'll quickly see that the content listing information in your build 9.21 will not be as comprehensive as the 9.23 build that wildrock has. Don't be alarmed. 9.23 has some more details to help us narrow down these type of issues, but there's good stuff in 9.21 that may be helpful.

RealWing

01-03-07, 11:13 PM

Linden

Here is a dump of the contents screens for this recording. I havent watched the whole recording yest- will do that later. I've used short forms for the sections - hope that isOK.
Jim

MFS:5192
MPEGFS:8430551040 {8430551040}
TFS:3443328 {3443328}
CT:yes
AE:No
CT:HD
RSA:01/03/2007 23:08:11
REA:01/04/2007 00:00:09
PT:0:59:58
DCP:CCI_COPY_PERMITTED
ACP:None
BF:No
RO:0
RWB:081-589-02-09
Disc:0
ABR:18742640
DFP:0
AT:DOLBY_DIGITAL
VT:MPEG2
ST:0
NT:0
TO:0
BO:0

schaffer970

01-04-07, 12:36 AM

As promised I have spent a fair amount of time comparing the Moto 6412 and the Pace 775. Both boxes are attached via HDMI and the set (Samsung HLR6168) has the settings the same for both HDMI inputs (the Sammy has two). What I have found is consistent with what wildrock has reported.

On HD content the difference between the two boxes is nearly indistinguishable. I have recorded the HD Net test patterns on both boxes and have compared all three test patterns. The only place I see any difference is in the resolution pattern where it appears that the Moto box does slightly better. However, with that said, when actually viewing HD material I find I prefer the picture from the Pace.

For digital SD material, again I can find no difference between the two boxes.

Finally on analog SD material, the Moto is clearly better than the Pace. I find that there are horizontal lines superimposed in the picture. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but they are definitely there and are obvious when comparing the two boxes. When using the Moto box I have it set to output everything in 1080i. I limited the Pace box in the same way but the lines were still there so it doesn't appear that it is the Sammy doing something funny with scaling. For me this is not an issue as I seldom watch analog SD material anyway.

I don't have an external eSATA drive so have been unable to test that but that is a major improvement over the Moto.

All in all the Pace 775 appears to be a solid box with a future. As discussed by others, there seems to be a problem (bug) when recording. I have also lost one recording. Lindend, I will provide you with all the information from the diagnostic screen, but my problem seems to be the same as wildrock, a {0} in the MPEG file size. I have not recorded much, the HD Net test pattern which was ok and then immediately after the recording that will not play. I also have Bresnan, but have not messed much with VOD, I will try to see if I experience the same problems as wildrock.

Finally, the fact that Lindend is participating on this forum, in my mind, more that makes up for any issues that we are experiencing. By trying to address the issues we are having shows that at least someone cares and is trying to make our viewing experience the best it can be. THANKS!

wildrock

01-04-07, 02:13 AM

I'd just like to Schaffer 970's report that I find the Pace to be much more responsive to clicks on the remote. The 6412 pIII was so sluggish, that it was like molasses. And then the last update on it, with the lockups, made it almost unusable to me. The Pace responds like you'd expect--crisp and accurate. Even given the gremlins I've experienced, I find it to be a better product, and knowing that Pace cares about its quality adds to my positive perceptions.

lindend

01-04-07, 08:54 AM

Lindend, I will provide you with all the information from the diagnostic screen, but my problem seems to be the same as wildrock, a {0} in the MPEG file size.

We you post that info, please also let me know:

1. Was the recording ever playable?
2. Have you rebooted and if so, how many times?

lindend

01-04-07, 08:56 AM

Wildrock,

How long is your HDMI cable?

schaffer970

01-04-07, 10:26 AM

We you post that info, please also let me know:

1. Was the recording ever playable?
No. When I try to play it a dialog comes up asking if I want play or delete. Won't play and I haven't deleted.

2. Have you rebooted and if so, how many times?
I think I have rebooted once. I can try again.

This recording plays:

Application data:
HD Net Test Pattern

Metadata file size: 5152
MPEG file size: 1292894208 {1292894208}
Trick File Size: 573248 {573248}
Clean Termination: Yes
Analog encoding: No
Content type: HD
Recording started at: 12/31/2006 11:50:11
Recording ended at: 12/31/2006 12:00:09
Play Time: 9:58
Digital Copy Permit: CCI_COPY_PERMITTED
Analog Copy Pemit: None
Broadcast Flag: No
Recording Overflows: 0
Recorded with build: 001-600-04-15-02-03
Discontinuities: 0
Avg. Bit Rate: 17296240
Disk full pauses: 0
Audio type: Dolby_Digital
Video type: MPEG2
Stream timeouts: 0
Navigation timeouts: 0
Trim offset: 0
Byte offset: 0
Tuner source: 2
Record session time: 598210
Compact state flag: 1
L+F state flag: 0

This one won't:

Application data:
Chick Corea: Rendezous in NY

Metadata file size: 5152
MPEG file size: 8434745344 {0}
Trick File Size: 3450304 {3450304}
Clean Termination: Yes
Analog encoding: No
Content type: HD
Recording started at: 12/31/2006 12:00:10
Recording ended at: 12/31/2006 13:00:09
Play Time: 59:59
Digital Copy Permit: CCI_COPY_PERMITTED
Analog Copy Pemit: None
Broadcast Flag: No
Recording Overflows: 0
Recorded with build: 001-600-04-15-02-03
Discontinuities: 0
Avg. Bit Rate: 18754296
Disk full pauses: 0
Audio type: Dolby_Digital
Video type: MPEG2
Stream timeouts: 0
Navigation timeouts: 0
Trim offset: 0
Byte offset: 0
Tuner source: 2
Record session time: 3598110
Compact state flag: 0
L+F state flag: unknown

The above is what I wrote down. I will double check the dates as the recordings were done as we changed over from 06 to 07.

lindend

01-04-07, 01:00 PM

Linden

Here is a dump of the contents screens for this recording. I havent watched the whole recording yest- will do that later. I've used short forms for the sections - hope that isOK.
Jim

Short form is fine. I see nothing obviously wrong in the diags info, it looks quite good in fact. Update me when you watch it completely.

RealWing

01-04-07, 01:37 PM

Short form is fine. I see nothing obviously wrong in the diags info, it looks quite good in fact. Update me when you watch it completely.

Linden

I watched the whole recording on PLAY and it was all OK. I Then restrated it and played back at FF3 speed. At about 26min into the recording it started to pixalize and bloc and then freeze. As before - when selecting PLAY- the picture returned to normal!!

Any more checks you want me to do?

A question for you: Should I be pressing my cable Comapny to get my box updated to 9.23?

wildrock

01-04-07, 01:54 PM

Wildrock,

How long is your HDMI cable?It's a six foot Philips.

lindend

01-04-07, 03:50 PM

Tuner source:

For the problem recording, please double check the Tuner source: entry. Are you sure its empty?

lindend

01-04-07, 05:24 PM

Linden

Any more checks you want me to do?

Still thinking about this one.

A question for you: Should I be pressing my cable Comapny to get my box updated to 9.23?

A point of clarification. I mentioned earlier that I can't comment on non-public hardware/software releases. Similarly, I can't recommend how you should interact with your local cable company. Each has their own testing and quality assurance processes so its not unusual that there are different releases at different locations at any single point in time.

lindend

01-05-07, 08:45 AM

Linden

I watched the whole recording on PLAY and it was all OK.

We need to you carefully watch playback at normal speed between 20 and 35 minutes and verify that there is no macroblocking/pixelizing.

Then I need to try FF between 20-35 minutes with each FF speed and report the results. Please do the same with Rewind.

RealWing

01-05-07, 01:28 PM

We need to you carefully watch playback at normal speed between 20 and 35 minutes and verify that there is no macroblocking/pixelizing.

Then I need to try FF between 20-35 minutes with each FF speed and report the results. Please do the same with Rewind.

You obviously had some idea of what I would find!!! If I had blinked, I might have missed it!!

On normal play at about 26 min, there was a "discontinuity"; the picture momentarily froze, audio stopped, picture restarted, audio came back and then about a half second of pixalization and then the picture and audio restarted. This all lasted for maybe 3 secs.

From this point on, when in playback at normal speed, I selected FF1:
FF1 had severe pixalization and blocking, but the recording kept playing.
FF2 resulted in the playback and picture freezing
FF3 resulted in the playback and picture freezing
FF4 resulted in the playback and picture freezing

When rewind was selected, the picture froze (NO pixalization) but the program was obvously rewinding, because the picture unfroze as soon as it cleared the "discontinuity". RW2,3,4 all behaved the same way.

Then while playing around (no pun intended!!)- I selected FF4 BEFORE the "discontinuity" and as soon as it hit this point, the pixalization/blocking restarted, however the picture did NOT freeze and fast forward mode continued.

I rewound again to before the discontinuity and tried FF2 and had the same pixalization effect as soon as it hit this discontinuity. From FF2, I then selected FF3 and the playback and picture froze.

Hope this helps!! I'm getting really interested to know what you think is happening!!!

Jim

PS I understand your position about F/W revisions.

wildrock

01-05-07, 01:31 PM

Wildrock,

How long is your HDMI cable?Ok, I looked at this again and just busted out laughing. Twisted AVS forum laughter, cause my newest answer was:

"Just long enough!" :D

schaffer970

01-05-07, 05:13 PM

For the problem recording, please double check the Tuner source: entry. Are you sure its empty?
It was 2. I edited the above post to include that. I have also rebooted and still no joy. I looked at the times of the recordings and what I list is correct. The recordings were done over the midnight hour. The only thing I can figure is that my provider (Bresnan) has their internal clock off by 12 hours. Again, thanks for all of your help with everyones problems. It's really no big deal if I loose this recording, mostly just want to help you figure out the gremlins.

schaffer970

01-05-07, 05:22 PM

Ok, I looked at this again and just busted out laughing. Twisted AVS forum laughter, cause my newest answer was:

"Just long enough!" :D

But if it was just a littttttttttle bit longer, maybe that would solve the problem! :D

Couldn't resist.

emerson1

01-06-07, 02:43 PM

I just got this set box and I have a few questions.

1. Is there any way to get recording from the DVR onto a computer?

2. Why can't I play some recordings? I go to watch them and when I hit resume all it lets me do is delete the recording or go back to where I was.

3. What functions do they USB and ethernet provide? If I connect it to my PC with either will that allow me to pull stuff of it?

schaffer970

01-06-07, 03:47 PM

I just got this set box and I have a few questions.

1. Is there any way to get recording from the DVR onto a computer?
It can be done via the firewire port. See the sticky post at the top of this area: How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695)

2. Why can't I play some recordings? I go to watch them and when I hit resume all it lets me do is delete the recording or go back to where I was.
Several of us have had problems with playback. See the discussion above. Lindend who works for Pace is trying to figure out what is going on.

3. What functions do they USB and ethernet provide? If I connect it to my PC with either will that allow me to pull stuff of it?
At this time neither are active. Hopefully in the future, additions to the software will be made so that they will be useful.

lindend

01-06-07, 06:44 PM

You obviously had some idea of what I would find!!! If I had blinked, I might have missed it!!

From your description, one of three things are likely the cause:

1. Recording overflows caused damaged to the information necessary to do trick functions.
2. Corruption in the MPEG content
3. The recording was paused due to a disk full condition.

The diags info ruled out #1 and #3 the symptoms would be slightly different. So #2 appears to be the source of the issue.

On normal play at about 26 min, there was a "discontinuity"; the picture momentarily froze, audio stopped, picture restarted, audio came back and then about a half second of pixalization and then the picture and audio restarted. This all lasted for maybe 3 secs.

The root question is was it like this in the original broadcast or is it only the recording that has this problem. If the source material is problematic, not much we can do about this.

lindend

01-06-07, 06:57 PM

Ok, I looked at this again and just busted out laughing. Twisted AVS forum laughter, cause my newest answer was:

"Just long enough!" :D

I know it was an oddball question, but believe it or not, there are some HDMI displays where HDCP gets flaky if you use a cable longer than 6 ft. :eek:

If you read the manual for these displays, the manufacturer recommends not using cables longer than 6ft, but never says why.

Anyway, given that you have a 6 ft. cable, this isn't an issue.

lindend

01-06-07, 07:08 PM

It was 2. I edited the above post to include that.

Thanks.

I have also rebooted and still no joy.

With an MPEG file size of 0, there unfortunately never will be any joy on this recording. :(

It's really no big deal if I loose this recording, mostly just want to help you figure out the gremlins.

Its a very big deal to us. We treat any lost recording seriously and appreciate your patience.

Your scenario is actually slightly different that wildrock's. I think his was lost due to the reboot. From the details you provided, I don't think reboot was the cause of the problem.

On the main PVR status page in diagnostics, please post the TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES values.

Let me think about this some more to see if there's anything else we need before you delete the recording.

lindend

01-06-07, 07:36 PM

I just got this set box and I have a few questions.

schaffer970's response was very accurate, but I have a couple of additional follow up questions.

2. Why can't I play some recordings? I go to watch them and when I hit resume all it lets me do is delete the recording or go back to where I was.

Do you still have the recordings? If so, please follow the instructions that I posted earlier in the thread to get into diagnostics and post the details. From those details, I'll be able to let you know if you're running in the same issues that we're currently investigating.

BTW, who is your cable company and do you know the firmware revision that you are using?

3. What functions do they USB and ethernet provide? If I connect it to my PC with either will that allow me to pull stuff of it?

The functionality of the ethernet port varies by site. If it is functional, it would function like a CableModem.

But you can't use it to transfer recordings. There is no published way of doing that with the current version of TV Guide.

emerson1

01-06-07, 09:49 PM

No, the recording weren't that important so I just deleted them. I was able to watch them, but later on I couldn't.

My cable company is Cebridge Connections, owned by sudden link.

They came and installed the box mid December, I will have to look exactly later on to see what it is. And I will have to try and run an ethernet cable from it to my computer to see if it will do anything.

ty for the help

lindend

01-07-07, 08:17 AM

No, the recording weren't that important so I just deleted them. I was able to watch them, but later on I couldn't.

Ok, this sounds like the problem we are chasing.

1. Do you know if the recordings were on analog or digital channels?
2. Do you know if you rebooted the box at any point in time after you viewed the recordings but before they became unplayable?

lindend

01-07-07, 08:33 AM

wildrock

01-07-07, 02:09 PM

Linden, a thought. The last time I lost the recordings, the event (loosing video on VOD, and then the rest of the cable channels, which forced me to reboot) was preceded a few hours by the weekly EBS (Emergency Broadcast System) interruption. The last time it interrupted a scheduled recording, which was broken into three parts. I just deleted the parts, as I had had this happen several times with the 6412, and you lose too much of the program to want to watch it. So I don't know if maybe the EBS interruption is somehow screwing up the logic on the Tahoe, but if the box was compacting or something like that, I can see it happening. Blame it on DHS (Dept. Homeland Security)? That would be funny. :eek:

lindend

01-07-07, 04:42 PM

So I don't know if maybe the EBS interruption is somehow screwing up the logic on the Tahoe, but if the box was compacting or something like that, I can see it happening. Blame it on DHS (Dept. Homeland Security)? That would be funny. :eek:

Thanks for the idea. My initial reaction is that an Emergency Alert System (EAS) shouldn't affect this problem as all it does is terminate recordings early and you end up with lots of little recordings.

However, it may be worth finding out if there is a correlation between EAS and later content loss. Did anyone else notice an EAS broadcast within 24 hours of the unplayable file(s) showing up?

trabbic

01-07-07, 11:04 PM

Lost some recordings all HD Movies from protected channels. I will post the specific info tomorrow, as I am going to bed.

Same as most people, went to watch the movie and was prompted to delete the recording.

wildrock

01-09-07, 01:51 AM

For those that are willing, I'd appreciate it if you could collect the following details:

1. For each recording that is playable, track the state of the compact flag.
2. If you see that the compact flag is 0, write down the name of the recording somewhere.
3. Use the box normally (if you have to reboot for any reason its ok).
4. If/when you run into an unplayable recording with an MPEG size of 0, post the diags details (particularly if the compact state flag has changed to 1).
5. Also indicate if an EAS happened or you used VOD in between the file being playable and then becoming unplayable.
6. You don't need to post all the diags details.

I just need the

MPEG file size:
Tuner source:
Compact state flag:
L+F state flag:

Note: The last three fields are not available in the 9.21 firmware

For item #5, please particularly note if you used VOD within two to three minutes after deleting or finishing a recording.Linden, I just had a power blip, and the Tahoe rebooted. So I thought I'd check the program status. First off, I checked all of the recordings yesterday, and they all worked, and had compact state flags of 0 and L+F state flags of 0. No VOD, nor did I notice an EAS (was watching late when it usually happens).

So the first HD recording is fine.

The next one is borked. Here's the stats:

MPEG file size: 16206790656 {0}
Tuner source: 2
compact state: 0
L+F: unknown

Recordings 3-6 fine

Recording 7 gone:

Mpeg file size: 136608448128 {0}
Tuner source: 1
Compact state flag: 0
L+F state flag: unknown

Recordings 8-10 are fine.

So it does seem that maybe a power interruption has something to do with it. Hope this helps. Might have to dig out an old UPS from the garage and hook it up.

lindend

01-09-07, 10:19 AM

Recordings 3-6 fine....Recordings 8-10 are fine.

Could you post the details on the MPEG file sizes for the recordings that are still playable?

Also, on the DVR status page, what is the value for

TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES?

Third question. If you go into standby and wait three minutes, are you seeing front panel animation when you come out of standby and hear the HDD spin up?

schaffer970

01-09-07, 11:02 AM

On the main PVR status page in diagnostics, please post the TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES values.

Let me think about this some more to see if there's anything else we need before you delete the recording.

Both Trash Recoveries and Empties are 0. Hope this helps.

lindend

01-10-07, 06:10 AM

I'm re-reviewing your diagnostics details.

This recording plays:

Application data:
HD Net Test Pattern

....
L+F state flag: unknown

....
This one won't:

Application data:
Chick Corea: Rendezous in NY

Metadata file size: 5152
MPEG file size: 8434745344 {0}

L+F state flag: 0

Is it possible that that the L+F values are reversed?

Typically, when the MPEG file size is 0, the L+F flag is unknown.
The L+F flag shouldn't be unknown if there is a valid file size.

lindend

01-10-07, 08:49 AM

I'd appreciate it if anyone who has reported the MPEG File size of 0 bug post their HDD model.

You can get the HDD model and serial number on the HDD Status page (23)

If you could also post the fragmented/max file fields too, it would be appreciated.

wildrock

01-10-07, 01:06 PM

wildrock

01-10-07, 01:15 PM

Could you post the details on the MPEG file sizes for the recordings that are still playable?
Linden, I had to reboot the box a second time after the power blip to get it to load correctly--when it rebooted from the power blip, it sort of hung with the clock saying 12:00, and no video for longer than normal. So I did a normal reboot, and it came up fine. Then I watched and deleted one movie, here are the others:

7010779136 {7010779136}
14799601664 {14799601664}
14794358784 {14794358784}
3407872000 {3407872000}
11133779968 {11133779968}
9743368192 {9743368192}
20428357632 {20428357632}

Also, on the DVR status page, what is the value for

TRASH RECOVERIES and TRASH EMPTIES?Both are 0

Third question. If you go into standby and wait three minutes, are you seeing front panel animation when you come out of standby and hear the HDD spin up?If you are talking about the LED's flashing around in a rectangular pattern for a few time, yes I am seeing that.

lindend

01-10-07, 03:03 PM

If you are talking about the LED's flashing around in a rectangular pattern for a few time, yes I am seeing that.

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for posting the diags details.

schaffer970

01-10-07, 07:30 PM

I'm re-reviewing your diagnostics details.

Is it possible that that the L+F values are reversed?

Typically, when the MPEG file size is 0, the L+F flag is unknown.
The L+F flag shouldn't be unknown if there is a valid file size.
You are correct. I have updated the original post so that everything is correct now. Got to quit doing more than one thing at a time.

begould

01-10-07, 11:29 PM

I just replaced a 6412 with the 775. The 6412 SD picture is much better. Maybe the 6412's ability to upscale to 480p with 4:3 override is the difference.

Justin_K

01-10-07, 11:36 PM

lindend

01-11-07, 08:57 AM

Anyone have any working firewire drivers to cap with this box to XP? Was previously using a 6208 box to cap, wanted 6412 for dual tuner but cableco gave me the TDC775 instead which does not work with the "Panasonic D-VHS" drivers which work on the Moto box (they work on the 6208/6412/3416)

Justin,

1. Could you provide more details on what is going wrong? Is Tahoe seeing the PC on the 1394 bus? Is nothing being captured or is the capture invalid?

2. Could you report the details from the 1394 diagnostics page? To get these details, go to page 21 (Interfaces), then select 1394 and post what you see on that page.

begould

01-11-07, 09:30 AM

Linden,

Several posts including mine have commented that the 775 SD picture is definitely inferior to the 6412. Is there a fix planned for this that will be available as a firmware or software upgrade? Can you add the upconvert to 480p resolution in 4:3 mode feature that the 6412 has?

lindend

01-11-07, 01:08 PM

Linden,

Several posts including mine have commented that the 775 SD picture is definitely inferior to the 6412.

I've seen reports that analog PQ isn't as good, but not that SD isn't as good. Are you referring to analog or all SD content (both digital and analog)?

Is there a fix planned for this that will be available as a firmware or software upgrade?

As I mentioned earlier, I can't comment on the content of future releases or future release schedules. We carefully monitor issues that are being reported and endeavor to fix problems as quickly as possible.

What I can say is that your reports aren't being ignored and we appreciate all the feedback.

Can you add the upconvert to 480p resolution in 4:3 mode feature that the 6412 has?

I've logged your request for this functionality.

sheltonmt

01-11-07, 01:34 PM

I returned my Moxi DVR for the Pace 775 yesterday, and while I prefer the Pace so far, there's a problem I haven't been able to figure out. I can record two shows at once if I manually record two currently airing shows, e.g., press record on the current channel, change channels, then press record again.

However, when setting season recordings, it will not let me record two simultaneous shows. When I try to set the season recording for a show in the same timeslot as another show for which I've previously set a season recording, I get a message saying that my new show will not be recorded because I already have a show set for that timeslot.

I also just verified that I can record two future shows simultaneously just by going to the program guide and pressing record. It is ONLY in the season recording menu where it will not let me record two programs simultaneously.

Any ideas?

begould

01-11-07, 02:34 PM

Thanks for your response. Both analog and digital SD are not as good as the 6412. By the way I am comparing the 775 in 480i mode and the 6412 in upconveted 480p mode. It makes a big difference.

wildrock

01-11-07, 03:20 PM

Thanks for your response. Both analog and digital SD are not as good as the 6412. By the way I am comparing the 775 in 480i mode and the 6412 in upconveted 480p mode. It makes a big difference.I found that my 6412 pIII looked better outputting 480i for SD (to my westy 37w3). And the Tahoe looks better ouputting 480p. Both were similar to me (taking the 6412 from memory). But the aspect ratios/pillar boxing are better handled on the Tahoe in 480p. But I get screen garbage on the top of the screen in 480p over HDMI, and either put up with it, or use "fill" on the westy. I don't like to use the fill, as when I shift channels to HD, I forget to un-fill it, and the image is compromised. So I just put up with the garbage, and watch as little of it as possible.

But for me, the analog on the Tahoe is definitely inferior to the 6412, particuarly when the Tahoe is in 480i. Comparing the 480i for analog on the Tahoe to the 6412 is really an obvious difference. It is much grainier, and somehow, the interlaced signal just doesn't get deinterlaced by my westy properly, while the 6412's 480i deinterlaced just fine. I would think that it would be a pass-through signal (if not using custom aspect ratios or pillar boxng), so the Tahoe and the 6412 should provide a signal that could be deinterlaced similarly by the display, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

begould

01-11-07, 05:31 PM

How do you get your 775 to output in 480p? The cable company transmits in 480i and the 775 has no upscaling ability I am aware of.

emerson1

01-11-07, 06:05 PM

So I had a 2nd problem with a recording. I recorded an HD movie and I have no sound with it. Can you repost or PM me on how to do the diagnostics check?

wildrock

01-11-07, 09:07 PM

How do you get your 775 to output in 480p? The cable company transmits in 480i and the 775 has no upscaling ability I am aware of.Going from 480i to 480p just deinterlaces the signal. I do this by going into the power menu and turning off the 480i (in the display capability sub menu). Then the 480p gets scaled up to 1080p and then reinterlaced to 1080i. Then it is sent to the display (where it sees it coming in as a 1080i signal over hdmi). As far as I know, you have to scale a progressive signal, not an interlaced signal, hence the reinterlacing. The Tahoe can scale, no problems.

Justin_K

01-11-07, 09:09 PM

Justin,

1. Could you provide more details on what is going wrong? Is Tahoe seeing the PC on the 1394 bus? Is nothing being captured or is the capture invalid?

2. Could you report the details from the 1394 diagnostics page? To get these details, go to page 21 (Interfaces), then select 1394 and post what you see on that page.

It just isnt capturing video. I use dctrecord to cap from my moto boxes and VLC to stream live TV. dctrecord just instantly closes when I tried it with the Tahoe box and VLC wouldn't even show it in the list of capture devices to stream live TV. It may just require some modified or different drivers. (I'm using some modified Panasonic D-VHS tuner drivers for the moto boxes). Unfortunately, Ive already swapped it out for a Moto (3412 I think) dual tuner so I can't look at the diagnostics. :(

lindend

01-11-07, 10:06 PM

So I had a 2nd problem with a recording. I recorded an HD movie and I have no sound with it. Can you repost or PM me on how to do the diagnostics check?

Press the Power button and then the select button (select needs to be pretty close after the power).

This brings up diags. From there, go to page 25, then your recording and then you can post the details of the recording.

Do you know if there were any audio issues on the original live broadcast?

lindend

01-12-07, 08:45 AM

Thanks for your response. Both analog and digital SD are not as good as the 6412. By the way I am comparing the 775 in 480i mode and the 6412 in upconveted 480p mode. It makes a big difference.

For those that have done PQ comparisons against the 6412, could you tell me if you compared it against the 6412 Phase III or Phase II?

I know some have provided this info, but not all have.

begould

01-12-07, 09:28 AM

pIII. The 6412 displays better HD PQ as well. I'm using a Sony 36 in. CRT HDTV, WEGA SuperFine Pitch. The CRT discriminates comparative PQ quality pretty well.

schaffer970

01-12-07, 12:19 PM

Lindend, I have both a Phase III and a Pace hooked up to a Samsung HLR6168 dlp via HDMI. I spent quite a bit of time directly comparing the two boxes and could find little difference between the two for HD and digital SD. Where I saw the problem was analog SD. I still have both boxes for another few days, so if there is anything you would like me to look at specifically, let me know. Always glad to help in this effort. :)

schaffer970

01-13-07, 10:25 AM

It just isnt capturing video. I use dctrecord to cap from my moto boxes and VLC to stream live TV. dctrecord just instantly closes when I tried it with the Tahoe box and VLC wouldn't even show it in the list of capture devices to stream live TV. It may just require some modified or different drivers. (I'm using some modified Panasonic D-VHS tuner drivers for the moto boxes). Unfortunately, Ive already swapped it out for a Moto (3412 I think) dual tuner so I can't look at the diagnostics. :(
Are you able to get anything to your PC? I have the drivers from the sticky at the top of the page and am able to stream using VLC and captured some digital SD last night. You may want to reinstall the drivers. I know things are rather touchy with firewire. In VLC make sure you refresh where you select the capture devices and the driver should show up.

lindend

01-13-07, 06:31 PM

Wildrock,

Linden, I had to reboot the box a second time after the power blip to get it to load correctly

Progress update. We've replicated your problem with losing content after a reboot in our labs.

Until a fix is available, I'm going to try to see if there are steps you can take to avoid it from happening. I'll keep everyone posted.

lindend

01-13-07, 06:34 PM

so if there is anything you would like me to look at specifically, let me know. Always glad to help in this effort. :)

I'd be interested in seeing comparisons between both boxes for both live and time shifted analog content.

For Tahoe at least, the only way to ensure the content is live is a fresh tune to a channel. Any type of trick operation will result in a time shift and the analog encoder getting involved.

wildrock

01-15-07, 01:43 AM

Linden, Glad you've been able to replicate my problem loosing recorded programs after reboot. But I have another, similar problem.

I was watching a recorded HD movie tonight, and I finished it, but when I went to hit delete, the dvr kind of hung. Clicking on the delete button wouldn't make the delete screen go away and return to a channel, and the picture behind the delete button went black. So I hit the exit button, and the screen was still black. Hit the channel button, and the button changed to a channel, and it displayed just fine. But it was an odd quirk, so I went and checked all of the recorded programs, and all 11 were bad now. All of them had been fine the day before (except the one that had just finished recording a bit before I finished watching the other program--I didn't get to check it before the problem). And the box has not been reset or rebooted, it shows an uptime of 5 days 23 hours.

Some programs show 0 for file size, some show a normal size. All programs show {0} for the second number. Trash recoveries and trash empties are 0. And the compact state flags are all 0 and the L+F are all unknown. Anything else you'd like to know before I delete and reset? My available space still says 71%, so I don't know what'll happen if I try to record past the 100%.

Want to swap this box so you can have it in the lab, and give me one of your new test ones? :rolleyes:

---------------
Addendum

The problem just got weirder. While the dvr says it had 71%, I went to rerecord one of the programs that was bad (Apocalypse Now Redux, which I deleted first before trying to rerecord, and it disappeared from the list like you think it should), but it wouldn't record (red light didn't come on). It showed in the listing, though, so I clicked on it (said 4 minutes were recorded) to test it, but got the delete button. So I tried to delete it. Got stuck on the delete button again. Then I exited out and went to the channel, and went to the info screen, and hit the red record button. Got a message saying the dvr was 100% full. Went back to the list, and it said it was now 100% full, and the whole movie that I deleted the first time (all 210 minutes of it) had showed back up. So I tried to delete some other programs, and nothing I deleted would drop the the dvr below 100%. Decided to reboot. Then I went into diagnostics, and now all of the SD programs that had shown 0 file size and {0} now showed normal file info, and could play. And all the HD programs that had shown 0 and {0} now showed a normal file size and {0}. All HD programs are now unplayable, and all SD programs are fine. Dvr menu now shows 20% and I can delete some movies (deleted one--Apocalypse Now).

Not sure what to do next. This is pretty messed up. Can I just do some kind of factory reset, reformat the HD, or something and start over? Take it back in to Bresnan and swap it for another? Losing my trust that it can keep functioning.

lindend

01-15-07, 08:22 AM

I was watching a recorded HD movie tonight, and I finished it, but when I went to hit delete, the dvr kind of hung. Clicking on the delete button wouldn't make the delete screen go away and return to a channel, and the picture behind the delete button went black.

When this happened, was there a pop-up dialog on screen with no text on it? Were you unable to dismiss the dialog for roughly 30 seconds?

Got a message saying the dvr was 100% full. Went back to the list, and it said it was now 100% full, and the whole movie that I deleted the first time (all 210 minutes of it) had showed back up. So I tried to delete some other programs, and nothing I deleted would drop the the dvr below 100%.

Unfortunately, this isn't a bug in Pace software (I can't publicly specify where the bug lies, but if you look at 6412 forums or the 6412 wiki you'll see it reported there too).

Bogus Disk Full (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#The_DVR_menu_erroneously_states_the_DVR_hard_drive_is_1 00.25_full)

What I can say is when you run into this bug, the only remedy is to reboot as you discovered.

Decided to reboot. Then I went into diagnostics, and now all of the SD programs that had shown 0 file size and {0} now showed normal file info, and could play.

What were the L+F and compact flag values after the reboot?

Not sure what to do next. This is pretty messed up. Can I just do some kind of factory reset, reformat the HD, or something and start over?

Yes, you can wipe the HDD clean and start fresh by going into diagnostics and hitting

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
LIVE

This will bring up a menu that will let you format the HDD. However, I'd like to retrieve a couple of the diagnostic values requested above before you reformat if you're ok with that.

emerson1

01-15-07, 12:07 PM

Is there a way to hook up the DVR to my computer?

emerson1

01-15-07, 12:08 PM

schaffer970

01-15-07, 12:35 PM

Is there a way to hook up the DVR to my computer?
This can be done via the firewire port. See this thread: How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695)

wildrock

01-15-07, 01:28 PM

When this happened, was there a pop-up dialog on screen with no text on it? Were you unable to dismiss the dialog for roughly 30 seconds? No, the normal delete/don't delete dialog box came up. I clicked what looked like delete button and nothing happened. The dialog just sayed there. Clicked a few times and nothing happened. So I hit the exit button, and the dialog disappeared, and I just went to a blank black screen. Then I hit the channel button, and went to a channel and it played fine.

What were the L+F and compact flag values after the reboot?Well, I have to reboot again. When I just turned the display on, the image is locked up, can't get the Tahoe to respond to anything. The time says 3:25, though it is 11:18. I can't turn the box off by using the power button, so I'm going to have to just pull the plug...

As to the flags, the good programs that are left have either a complact flag state of 0 or 1 and a l+f of 0. For the unplayable programs that I deleted in the wee hours (I'm an insomniac, so bear with me), I believe that they were the same, but I neglected to write them down.

Do you think resetting and reformatting the HD might help to clear up these problems? Or is a "try it and see?" I have a few recorded programs that I need someone else to see before I do this.

lindend

01-15-07, 02:47 PM

As to the flags, the good programs that are left have either a complact flag state of 0 or 1 and a l+f of 0. For the unplayable programs that I deleted in the wee hours (I'm an insomniac, so bear with me), I believe that they were the same, but I neglected to write them down.

Ok, no problem.

Do you think resetting and reformatting the HD might help to clear up these problems? Or is a "try it and see?" I have a few recorded programs that I need someone else to see before I do this.

From the symptoms you describe, the general state of your HDD filesystem does not appear to be good. I'm pretty sure that a format will restore your box to a functional state, but I can't say that with 100% confidence at this point as I've not seen these exact symptoms described before (the box where we replicated the loss on reboot isn't doing this).

If there are some recordings that you still want to view and would prefer not to format, when you do the

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
LIVE

keys in diags, select the erase GPFS partition option. This will delete all TVG data and reboot but leave your recordings intact. If you choose to do this, be aware that all your recordings on the MyDVR screen will lose the guide data description and all you'll see is the time and date of the recording. You also will lose any scheduled/series recordings information.

Hopefully, that will at least allow you to view the recordings. However, I think you'll eventually have to format the HDD as the erase GPFS partition really isn't addressing the root problem.

wildrock

01-15-07, 11:13 PM

Yes, you can wipe the HDD clean and start fresh by going into diagnostics and hitting

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
LIVE

This will bring up a menu that will let you format the HDD. OK. I tried to do that but nothing happened. So you mean the same diagnostics menu with the 25 items that I go into to pick, say the content listings? And if so, then when I am just looking at the main screen with all 25 items, I just use the remote and hit the 3 buttons in the order you list? On my remote I think that it would be for the Repeat, the button with the circle arrow icon that signifies go back 15 seconds (or code 179--Replay)? And for the MyDVR, it would be the green "list" button (code 239). And for the LIVE, the LIVE button (code 177). If that is it, when I do this, nothing happens. The box doesn't blink to notify that it is getting a command like it does in normal mode.

Thanks
?

lindend

01-16-07, 08:30 AM

OK. I tried to do that but nothing happened. So you mean the same diagnostics menu with the 25 items that I go into to pick, say the content listings?

Yes, the initial screen when you enter diagnostics.

I just use the remote and hit the 3 buttons in the order you list?

Yes. Speed is not important as long as the presses are pretty close to each other.

Are you pressing the MyDVR (List) button three times in between repeat and LIVE?

On my remote I think that it would be for the Repeat, the button with the circle arrow icon that signifies go back 15 seconds (or code 179--Replay)? And for the MyDVR, it would be the green "list" button (code 239). And for the LIVE, the LIVE button (code 177).

You are using the correct keys. Just be sure to press them in the same quantity and sequence that I outlined above.

wildrock

01-16-07, 08:57 PM

You are using the correct keys. Just be sure to press them in the same quantity and sequence that I outlined above.Well, I was hitting the right keys, but I had the wrong code programmed in the remote for MyDVR. It is code 175, not 239. Once I changed to that, it worked fine. Guess I played with too many different code combos in the past, and the various charts show the MyDVR to be 239 (which did nothing) while another chart shows it as just DVR, code 175 (which goes to the dvr list) which did work. In any case, i got to the format window and reformatted it. Now I'll just hope that I no longer have those sorts of file system errors.

Thanks again, Jim

dodgeco

01-17-07, 12:08 AM

I just received my pace stb, don;t know anything about it,,, but will read postings

BillKen

01-17-07, 11:02 AM

My cable guy was just here at my office working on our cable phone and I asked him a bit about the new Pace 775 they offer. Ironically enough he had one in his truck and brought it in for me to check out. He commented that the Pace tech that came to show them the new box was really a good guy - so I wonder if it's you Lindend? He's a tech for Armstrong Cable services near Pittsburgh.

Also - the tech assured me that ALL of Armstrong's SD signals are digital and there's no analog any longer - is this a true (or possible) statement? My main concern about switching from my Moto 6412 phase 3 to the Pace is the comments about the analog SD pic quality as I still (sadly) watch a fair amount of non-HD broadcasts. Can anyone verify this for me?

Thanks.

lindend

01-17-07, 01:00 PM

My cable guy was just here at my office working on our cable phone and I asked him a bit about the new Pace 775 they offer. Ironically enough he had one in his truck and brought it in for me to check out. He commented that the Pace tech that came to show them the new box was really a good guy - so I wonder if it's you Lindend?

Nope. I'm a software architect.

However, I do know the person he's referring to and I agree, he's excellent.

Also - the tech assured me that ALL of Armstrong's SD signals are digital and there's no analog any longer - is this a true (or possible) statement?

As mentioned earlier, I can't comment on MSOs or specific channel configurations etc. However, the issues you are concerned about should not be an issue at your location. ;)

BillKen

01-17-07, 01:51 PM

Linden - thanks for the reply - as someone already mentioned - just the fact that you're here participating sold me on the Pace box - I'll be calling Armstrong later today to get mine swapped out. (The tech that was here today offered to go to my house and do the swap right then but we have a show recorded that we need to watch before the swap). Thanks again.

dodgeco

01-17-07, 05:14 PM

lindend

01-17-07, 06:07 PM

Jim,

In any case, i got to the format window and reformatted it.
Thanks again, Jim

Do you have an eSATA drive connected? Then I'd recommend reformatting that too.

By default, the format screen will format the internal drive. To format the external drive, you need to change the drive number from 1/2 to 2/2 (the drive number is the active field when you initially go to the format screen).

Once you select the eSATA drive, you proceed with the format as before.

wildrock

01-17-07, 07:36 PM

as a newbe what programs will the 775 record? I've pushed rec it says your prog is being rec but where does it go, how do you bring it back, I don't seem to know anything. does it only do vod, and no reg broadcast prog, where is the menu, can you put music on the hd, if so is there a menu to recover info on that, these questions will last me for a while.... thanksMethinks that cable companies need to include a manual with the box. Bresnan didn't, so I had to dig one up myself.

Here's the Pace Tahoe manual (http://www.pacemicro.com/media/americas/PDF/manuals/tdc775_manual.pdf)

schaffer970

01-17-07, 07:44 PM

as a newbe what programs will the 775 record? I've pushed rec it says your prog is being rec but where does it go, how do you bring it back, I don't seem to know anything. does it only do vod, and no reg broadcast prog, where is the menu, can you put music on the hd, if so is there a menu to recover info on that, these questions will last me for a while.... thanks
Here is a link to the i-Guide (http://www.i-guide.tv/) go through the tutorial it will tell you everything you need to know. I am presuming that your provider is using i-Guide as their software. No matter what, there is probably a "MENU" key on your remote. Press it and see what comes up.

Good Luck :)

wildrock

01-17-07, 07:46 PM

Jim,

Do you have an eSATA drive connected? Then I'd recommend reformatting that too.I don't have an external yet, though I will soon enough. Thanks for the tip.

Concerning an external drive, is the content there separate from the internal drive? Meaning if I add a drive, and then disconnect it, will the programs on it just disappear without affecting internal programs? Or can I use a multliane enclosure and add in drives as I want/need? or does the Tahoe stitch the files together on the external via spanning or RAID? I tend to have a rotating bevy of drives and enclosures between here and my office. Also, any specs as to drives? Speeds, caches, etc? Is a drive autoformatted first time it is plugged in? Or does it need to be formatted manually the first time? If a drive is removed, can it be hooked back up without losing content (or hooked up on another Tahoe)? Sorry for all of the questions. But none of this is addressed in the manual or on the Pace website. Note to your team: put up a support website for the box wth some FAQs, whitepapers, or pdfs for more specific functions that aren't described in the manual. As this box gets deployed enquiring minds will want to know. ;)

again, many thanks,

jim

dodgeco

01-17-07, 07:48 PM

page 18 says you can do this and that but how,, what channels will it record,, how do you slow motion? what are the lights on the right side for and what makes them light? Where else would I look for these kind of answers?

Just looked at your posting for I-Guide,,, that helped a lot,,,thank

I can't seem to find the"DVR" on the menu guide on tv. I have the tdc775d, does that make the diff

lindend

01-17-07, 09:24 PM

I don't have an external yet, though I will soon enough. Thanks for the tip.

Concerning an external drive, is the content there separate from the internal drive? Meaning if I add a drive, and then disconnect it, will the programs on it just disappear without affecting internal programs?

Yes. Recordings are either on the internal drive or the external drives. Recordings do not span drives.

Note: you can't hotplug a drive with Tahoe right now. You must reboot for the drive to be recognized.

Or can I use a multliane enclosure and add in drives as I want/need? or does the Tahoe stitch the files together on the external via spanning or RAID?

No spanning. No RAID. Just additional storage space.

Now if you add one of those external SATA enclosures with RAID, you can implement your own RAID, but we don't currently offer that feature.

I tend to have a rotating bevy of drives and enclosures between here and my office. Also, any specs as to drives? Speeds, caches, etc?

We've tested with Seagate and Maxtor eSATA drives. However, there is no approved lists of drives per se. Pretty much if its compliant with the standard and can handle ~60-70 mbps data rates you should be ok.

Is a drive autoformatted first time it is plugged in? Or does it need to be formatted manually the first time?

If there is no format on the drive, it will be autoformatted.

If there is data on the drive, you'll be asked if you want to format it upon reboot.

There is also always the diagnostics option I mentioned above if you ever want to manually reformat it.

If a drive is removed, can it be hooked back up without losing content (or hooked up on another Tahoe)?

You can always remove and re-add the drive (or any other drive) without data loss. However, the content on that drive will only ever be playable on the Tahoe that recorded the content. You can't move it around to a different STB in your house.

Just want to re-emphasize that hot-plug of the drive is not supported. It requires a reboot in all cases if you add and/or remove the drive.

Sorry for all of the questions. But none of this is addressed in the manual or on the Pace website. Note to your team: put up a support website for the box wth some FAQs, whitepapers, or pdfs for more specific functions that aren't described in the manual. As this box gets deployed enquiring minds will want to know. ;)

Good suggestion. I'll look into it.

Morganna

01-18-07, 12:38 PM

schaffer970

01-18-07, 01:22 PM

I don't think you can separate the two boxes, but maybe Lindend knows more. If there is a way to do this it would be great.

BillKen

01-18-07, 01:59 PM

I just got the Pace Tahoe thru Armstrong Cable, near Pittsburgh. I have the Pace Tahoe and the Motorola 6412 hooked up to the same TV. Is there anyway to change the "Frequency" of the Pace, because my Harmony remote controls both cable boxes at the same time. It seems to have the same remote frequency as the Motorola. The reason I got the pace was because I was told by Armstrong that I could control both cable boxes independently. :(
Odd - both the Tech at my office - and the girl I spoke to at Armstrong told me they use the same remote codes so the same remote will work with both of them. Wonder why they didn't tell you that? May I ask why you have 2 cable boxes on the same TV? I'm near Cranberry Twp - how about you?

Morganna

01-18-07, 03:13 PM

Billken- I am in Ellwood, a lil ways outside of Zelienople.

As for the 2 boxes on one TV, well, I watch too many shows. And sometimes there are 3 things on at the same time that I want to record. :p

BillKen

01-18-07, 03:15 PM

Billken- I am in Ellwood, a lil ways outside of Zelienople.

As for the 2 boxes on one TV, well, I watch too many shows. And sometimes there are 3 things on at the same time that I want to record. :p
ohhh ok - I get it. I'm actually in Zelie - I just say Cranberry Twp since most folks know that one. :) I'm off to pick up my Pace box now.

wildrock

01-18-07, 03:51 PM

As for the 2 boxes on one TV, well, I watch too many shows. And sometimes there are 3 things on at the same time that I want to record. :pCan you give us your impressions of the PQ from both (analog PQ is a topic that many are interested in here). Also, which 6412 are you using (pIII is latest, I believe). I found the Tahoe to be much more responsive to the remote than the 6412. The 6412 was like running in molasses.

BillKen

01-18-07, 04:01 PM

My understanding from the techs at Armstrong cable is that their system is all digital now (even SD) - no analog - so unless he didn't know what he was talking about I'm not sure us Armstrong Cable folks can help with analog PQ questions.

I just picked up my Pace box and plan on hooking it up tonight - so I should be able to better compare both until I return my Moto 6412 phase 3 box sometime next week. I'll post my impressions soon.

Morganna

01-18-07, 04:01 PM

Picture quality on the Pace pretty much seems to be the same. I have been spending time switching back and forth between the two all afternoon. On the Pace the non HD local channels seem to have less fuzz. The HD hannels look great!

The only minor thing is on non HD channels the Pace is switching the picture to full screen, where as I usually watch it wide zoom or 4:3. After looking at the directions that will soon be fixed.

Just wish I could get rid of the Gamecube box that I have to slide in front of the box I am not using!

BillKen

01-18-07, 04:09 PM

Morganna - have you found like Wildrock that the remote control response is much better than with the Motorola box? That's the "main" reason I did the swap.

Morganna

01-18-07, 04:29 PM

The control on the Pace is sooo much better!! Quite responsive, does not get that delay that would happen with the moto. I just got done watching something that I recorded, and the fast-forward and rewind is so smooth and fast.

BillKen

01-18-07, 04:31 PM

Praise the Lord! Not that I doubted Wildrock - just nice to hear another person verify what I was hoping for. Thanks!

BillKen

01-19-07, 12:12 AM

wildrock

01-19-07, 12:26 AM

Well I got our new Pace box hooked up but have a problem. It's late now and Armstrong tech support is closed so I haven't checked with them yet.

When I try to use VOD - whatever show I choose comes up for about the first 15 seconds then the screen just goes totally blank. I'll tinker some more before bed and call Armstrong in the morning but just wondered if anyone else had this issue.

I'm running through HDMI to my Samsung HLR-5067w DLP and using the coax audio out to my Harman Kardon AVR235 - I don't always use the surround system for normal TV though so that's not part of my issue I assume.Yes, I had similar problems with VOD and HDMI. It seemed that when the screen was changing resolution after going into VOD, that it would go black on me. It hasn't hapened in a while, though. It happened with HDMI, but when I ran both HDMI and component to my display, the VOD would display fine over component. I talked about it a few pages back in this thread. I think that maybe the way I have my resolutions set up, that I have avoided the problem. Good luck.

wildrock

01-19-07, 03:49 AM

Linden,

OK, I spoke too soon. I went into VOD, and my first indication that all isn't well, is that the annoying VOD muzak didn't start playing. And I went to play a program, and the screen went blank (didn't matter if it was HDMI, component, or video input). So I exited, and now all of the digital channels have no video or audio. The TVGuide works just fine. I can move around all of the menus. The DVR won't play any programs (no delete buttons, though, and the stats look fine in the content diags). It's late, and I can just leave it as is, so I won't reboot. If there's any diagnostics I can capture for you, I'll do it in the morning, and then reboot the box again. Sounds like the digital tuners got blown by the VOD excursion

jim

lindend

01-19-07, 09:14 AM

When I try to use VOD - whatever show I choose comes up for about the first 15 seconds then the screen just goes totally blank. I'll tinker some more before bed and call Armstrong in the morning but just wondered if anyone else had this issue.

If you have the ability to connect the component outputs (or RCA)...when the screen blanks out on HDMI do you see an HDCP warning on the other outputs?

lindend

01-19-07, 09:16 AM

If there's any diagnostics I can capture for you, I'll do it in the morning, and then reboot the box again. Sounds like the digital tuners got blown by the VOD excursion

jim

Its ok for you to reboot. However, after you reboot, please check the component outputs and see if you see an HDCP warning when visiting the VOD page (I think you did this earlier and mentioned it was present).

BillKen

01-19-07, 09:50 AM

If you have the ability to connect the component outputs (or RCA)...when the screen blanks out on HDMI do you see an HDCP warning on the other outputs?
I'm not sure what the HDCP warning is - could you explain?

I currently have my Harman Kardon DVD 22 on component 1 and my Xbox 360 on component 2 - so while I do have the ability to switch to that - it can't be a long term solution since neither my dvd player or xbox 360 has hdmi out capability.

Armstrong is coming over today to look - the cs rep said they've had some issues with signal strength with the Pace boxes so hopefully they can fix it. Thankfully I kept my Moto box so I have a backup.

Another thing that's started happening is HORRIBLE tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on all channels - HD, SD and VoD. In setup I have 1080i, 720p and 480p all set to "yes" and 480i set to "no" (I get a "not supported mode" message from my TV if I set 480i to yes and try to watch a non-HD channel - not sure why - but that's why it's set to "no"). I also have auto-letterboxing "on".

When the box is working I think I like it better than the Moto but so far all these problems having me leaning toward just moving back to the Moto box. :mad:

We'll see what Armstrong says today.

lindend

01-19-07, 11:24 AM

I'm not sure what the HDCP warning is - could you explain? .

HDCP is a security protocol used with HDMI monitors.

If there is a problem establishing HDCP, you'll see a dialog to that effect on the screen. I'd like to find out if that dialog is showing up in your situation.

I currently have my Harman Kardon DVD 22 on component 1 and my Xbox 360 on component 2 - so while I do have the ability to switch to that - it can't be a long term solution since neither my dvd player or xbox 360 has hdmi out capability.

Very temporary. I only need to find out if the dialog shows up on the screen.

Another thing that's started happening is HORRIBLE tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on all channels - HD, SD and VoD.

These seem to be related to the signal strength issues you mentioned above.

If you can go into diags, choose page 4, and report the signal level it would be helpful.

BillKen

01-19-07, 11:38 AM

I'll be heading home for lunch soon and will try to get you the signal level when I return - I probably won't have time to mess with the alternative connections until this evening though.

Thank you again for helping out on these forums - if it weren't for that I'd simply have returned the Pace box and kept my Motorola one.

BillKen

01-19-07, 11:40 AM

HDCP is a security protocol used with HDMI monitors.

If there is a problem establishing HDCP, you'll see a dialog to that effect on the screen. I'd like to find out if that dialog is showing up in your situation.

Does this warning show up on my TV screen or the Pace display? Does it not show up over HDMI and only with other connections? Still somewhat fuzzy on it. Thanks.

BillKen

01-19-07, 12:31 PM

These seem to be related to the signal strength issues you mentioned above.

If you can go into diags, choose page 4, and report the signal level it would be helpful.

Home for lunch now - I just checked and signal strength being reported is between 2.6 and 2.8 (I went in and checked a couple of times).

I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.

Also if it matters I'm on software/firmware or whatever - version 9.21.

I am using the Moto power cord (same connectors at the one that came with the Pace box) - is that maybe a problem? I assumed a power cord is a power cord is a power cord kinda thing - rather than having to re-fish the new one into my setup.

I am noticing some remote control delay issues like the Moto box but not as bad. Is this normal or could it be my Harmony 880 remote?

wildrock

01-19-07, 12:55 PM

Its ok for you to reboot. However, after you reboot, please check the component outputs and see if you see an HDCP warning when visiting the VOD page (I think you did this earlier and mentioned it was present).OK. After the first reboot, I still had the problem--no digital channels or VOD. So I did a slow reboot (let it sit for a while unplugged). and then let it run for a half hour after reboot to make sure the TVGuide software fully loaded. Then it worked as it should. I got the digital channels and VOD, and no HDCP messages on component in VOD. But I did get the resolution shifting screen change right after going into VOD again.

lindend

01-19-07, 12:56 PM

Home for lunch now - I just checked and signal strength being reported is between 2.6 and 2.8 (I went in and checked a couple of times).

That seems reasonable. Please report all the values on page 4.

I am noticing some remote control delay issues like the Moto box but not as bad. Is this normal or could it be my Harmony 880 remote?

The 880 does need to be optimized in general (there is an excellent FAQ on doing this in the remote forum), but I'm not sure the interkey delay is what you are referring to.

Are you seeing delays roughly every two minutes or is it more frequent than this?

BillKen

01-19-07, 01:06 PM

That seems reasonable. Please report all the values on page 4.

The 880 does need to be optimized in general (there is an excellent FAQ on doing this in the remote forum), but I'm not sure the interkey delay is what you are referring to.

Are you seeing delays roughly every two minutes or is it more frequent than this?
Some of these values changed slightly while writing them down btw - not sure it matters though:

Tuner 1
Data Yes TSID 35058
Carrier Lock Yes Sym Rate (Kbps) 5361
PCR Lock Yes Pre RS BER 1.07e-04
SNR 35.8 GOOD
Modulation Mode QAM 256
Short Term Errors 60808
Long Term Errors 199538734
Tuned Freq 657000
Signal Level 3.4 (was 2.8 before)
Tuned AGC 40
Avg. Data Rate 8984
Peak Data Rate 9360

I'll try to take note on the key delay issue - but for now there seems to be bigger fish to fry for me than some remote delay. :)

Please note I edited my prior post to include the info on VoD over component.

lindend

01-19-07, 01:20 PM

I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.

If its not too difficult to try a different cable, I'd be interested in seeing the results.
Based on your initial response, it does not seem like an HDCP issue.

BillKen

01-19-07, 01:32 PM

If its not too difficult to try a different cable, I'd be interested in seeing the results.
Based on your initial response, it does not seem like an HDCP issue.

Ok different cable - now the show will run - but I FF too long I get the same black screen/no sound (although if you look at the counter in the VoD menu for that show it appears as if the box thinks it's still running - since it shows how much time has elapsed - so it'll show for example 7 minutes - even though the screen/sound went out at 15 seconds).

Update - still getting the issue on new VoD shows though - some will run some will just black out after 15-30 seconds - doesn't seem like a different HDMI cable made any difference.

Also - still getting horrendous tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on regular tv - both HD and SD. :(

lindend

01-19-07, 01:59 PM

Also - still getting horrendous tiling/artifacting/sound dropouts on regular tv - both HD and SD. :(

The diagnostics indicates lots of errors in the transport stream which will result in macroblocking.

Can you insert a 6dB pad (or a passive splitter) into the feed and see if it helps?

BillKen

01-19-07, 02:24 PM

The diagnostics indicates lots of errors in the transport stream which will result in macroblocking.

Can you insert a 6dB pad (or a passive splitter) into the feed and see if it helps?
Not sure what a 6db pad is - but I'll show this to the Armstrong Tech if he gets to my house before the end of the day today.

Any more thoughts on the VoD issues? Having a young son - not having VoD is not an option at my house. ;)

BillKen

01-19-07, 03:43 PM

Well Armstrong came and just swapped out the box with another Pace one - so far all seems well - hopefully the first box was just flaky.

Thank you again for all of your help Linden.

Quick setup question - any reason to keep the resolution settings at 1080i, 720p and 480p - or should I drop the 1080i since my Samsung DLP is 720p - although I think it can accept 1080i signals.

lindend

01-19-07, 04:25 PM

Quick setup question - any reason to keep the resolution settings at 1080i, 720p and 480p - or should I drop the 1080i since my Samsung DLP is 720p - although I think it can accept 1080i signals.

Its a preference thing. If you like the scaler in your DLP better, enable 1080i. If you think Tahoe scales better than the Samsung, then disable 1080i. The way to tell would be to view 1080i content with both options and see which one is better for you.

Regarding the VOD issues, I don't have a suggestion at this point. We are thinking about it though.

BillKen

01-19-07, 04:28 PM

Its a preference thing. If you like the scaler in your DLP better, enable 1080i. If you think Tahoe scales better than the Samsung, then disable 1080i. The way to tell would be to view 1080i content with both options and see which one is better for you.

Regarding the VOD issues, I don't have a suggestion at this point. We are thinking about it though.
Thanks Linden - how exactly do I tell if content is 1080i?

wildrock

01-20-07, 01:56 PM

OK. After the first reboot, I still had the problem--no digital channels or VOD. So I did a slow reboot (let it sit for a while unplugged). and then let it run for a half hour after reboot to make sure the TVGuide software fully loaded. Then it worked as it should. I got the digital channels and VOD, and no HDCP messages on component in VOD. But I did get the resolution shifting screen change right after going into VOD again.Oh, and I forgot to mention that I did lose 2 more HD movie recordings after the reboot. Same as before. I think something is trying to keep me from watching Apocalypse Now Redux. :p I might have to watch it live.

BillKen

01-20-07, 02:46 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I did lose 2 more HD movie recordings after the reboot. Same as before. I think something is trying to keep me from watching Apocalypse Now Redux. :p I might have to watch it live.
I did - it's worth it - some pretty nifty extra scenes! :)

lindend

01-20-07, 07:28 PM

Thanks Linden - how exactly do I tell if content is 1080i?

The simplest way is to enable all resolutions in the PowerMenu. Most HD displays have an option to display the incoming resolution (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), but that's display specific. You'd have to read the manual, but I find that option very convenient so you probably should find out the remote key that displays this info.

You can also get this info from Tahoe diags if you're using HDMI. Tune to the channel in question, then go into diagnostics. Select the interface page (21), then select HDMI. Near the bottom, you'll see a line that says in resolution. This is the incoming (original resolution). The out means the output resolution that the TDC775 is feeding to your display.

lindend

01-20-07, 07:32 PM

I also had time to toss some component cables on and VoD "seems" to work fine over Component 1 - I tried 4-5 various shows and I didn't have any of the prior issues I had over HDMI (shows play for about 15 seconds then the screen goes black and no sound). There were no HDCP error messages at all. Should I try a different HDMI cable? Both that I have are 6 footers but from different manufacturers.

I just realized something. This isn't proof you're not having an HDCP issue. These are the steps you need to follow to rule that out.

1. Use HDMI and go to VOD.
2. When the problem occurs, switch over to component.
3. See if you see the HDCP warning on screen. The dialog will only be up for 30 seconds or so, so you need to switch inputs relatively quickly.

lindend

01-20-07, 07:34 PM

Any more thoughts on the VoD issues? Having a young son - not having VoD is not an option at my house. ;)

Questions for both BillKen and wildrock.

1. If both of you stay on the Guide screen for several minutes, do you have any issues?
2. When you use component connections to access VOD, how long has it worked (i.e. minutes, hours)?

I just want to rule a couple of things out.

dodgeco

01-20-07, 09:21 PM

BillKen

01-20-07, 09:26 PM

I'll give it a go Linden and report back.

The new box seems to be better tiling/artifacting-wise on live TV but the VOD issue is still persisting - though not quite as bad as the previous box - it's still there nonetheless.

BillKen

01-20-07, 09:56 PM

Just A Quick Yes Or No Will Do Me,,, Is The Tdc775d, The Same As The One's You Guys Have Been Talking About, That Can Record? Replay ? Has 4 Light Slots On The Right Side,,, All That Seem To Do Nothing For Me? Could It Be Broken?

Yes my Pace says TDC 775D on the front panel just above the power button.

4 light slots? the ones that indicate play 1 / play 2 / rec 1 / rec 2 ? If that's what you mean - they just show what tuner is playing what show or recording what show. The tuner ones only light when you are actively doing something like changing a channel - and the rec ones only light when you are recording something. If you're just sitting there watching the same channel - none of them will be lit up.

BillKen

01-20-07, 10:06 PM

Questions for both BillKen and wildrock.

1. If both of you stay on the Guide screen for several minutes, do you have any issues?
2. When you use component connections to access VOD, how long has it worked (i.e. minutes, hours)?

I just want to rule a couple of things out.

Ok so far - leaving it at "Guide" seems fine - no issues for me thus far.

I connected components up again and got VoD to do the black out / no sound thing after 10-15 seconds (on HDMI) and quickly switched to component 2 input and the show was playing fine (without sound of course since I didn't hook up any audio outs) but there was no HDCP warning or anything just playing as if nothing had happened. I swapped to the component input in less than 5 seconds once the hdmi input pic went black.

Like I mentioned before - it very obviously keeps playing - if you return the VoD menu and look at the previously viewed shows it will show exactly how long the show has played - even though the pic and sound went out 15 seconds into it.

Sometimes you can go back and restart the show and it's fine - sometimes you have to continue where you left off and it's fine - sometimes nothing works - but another show will. It's pretty madenning really. :) Just seams like the HDMI output is just dropping randomly while trying to view VoD shows.

Sorry but I haven't really tried to just use the component inputs for VOD during the day since I have no audio out cables running to my TV (because I use hdmi) and I really don't want to tear my Harman Kardon receiver/DVD out and re-run all the cabling.

If you REALLY REALLY want me to go buy an optical audio cable, reprogram my Harmony 880 (my wife and son do most of the VoD'ing during the day when I'm at work and the remote must control it all or I'll not have a moment's rest at work) and swap the TV over to components for a few days to see if we still have the VoD issue I will though - even though it'll mean no xbox 360 for me. ;)

Let me know Linden and thanks again for your help.

P.S. - for the love of God - WHY is the power button like a lighthouse beacon and the channel/clock display so terribly dim (even on the brightest setting)? It sure would be nice to be able to tone that darn bright blue power button WAY down and the clock display (we use the clock not the channel) WAY up beyond what "high" gives us now. Unless you're within about 4 feet of the box you can't read the clock.

BillKen

01-20-07, 10:16 PM

The simplest way is to enable all resolutions in the PowerMenu. Most HD displays have an option to display the incoming resolution (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), but that's display specific. You'd have to read the manual, but I find that option very convenient so you probably should find out the remote key that displays this info.

You can also get this info from Tahoe diags if you're using HDMI. Tune to the channel in question, then go into diagnostics. Select the interface page (21), then select HDMI. Near the bottom, you'll see a line that says in resolution. This is the incoming (original resolution). The out means the output resolution that the TDC775 is feeding to your display.

Thanks for that info Linden. :)

lindend

01-20-07, 11:52 PM

Ok so far - leaving it at "Guide" seems fine - no issues for me thus far.

I connected components up again and got VoD to do the black out / no sound thing after 10-15 seconds (on HDMI) and quickly switched to component 2 input and the show was playing fine (without sound of course since I didn't hook up any audio outs) but there was no HDCP warning or anything just playing as if nothing had happened. I swapped to the component input in less than 5 seconds once the hdmi input pic went black.

Ok, that's sufficient for the test I requested. Thanks.

Sometimes you can go back and restart the show and it's fine - sometimes you have to continue where you left off and it's fine - sometimes nothing works - but another show will. It's pretty madenning really. :) Just seams like the HDMI output is just dropping randomly while trying to view VoD shows.

BTW, can you time it. Is it exactly 15 seconds each time or does it vary?

If you REALLY REALLY want me to go buy an optical audio cable,

No. Definitely not! I don't want to be the source of a marital conflict in the BillKen household! :eek:

P.S. - for the love of God - WHY is the power button like a lighthouse beacon

You're not the first one to complain about this (see comments early on in this thread). We've heard the message loud and clear.

BillKen

01-21-07, 08:40 AM

BTW, can you time it. Is it exactly 15 seconds each time or does it vary?

No - it's definately not exactly 15 seconds each time - it varies and a show can run for as long as perhaps a minute before the hdmi output goes away. I'd say 15 seconds or so is a decent average though but I've seen both longer and shorter time spans.

lindend

01-21-07, 10:46 AM

No - it's definately not exactly 15 seconds each time - it varies and a show can run for as long as perhaps a minute before the hdmi output goes away. I'd say 15 seconds or so is a decent average though but I've seen both longer and shorter time spans.

Ok. When this happens with HDMI and VOD again, please turn the monitor on/off and see if that restores video. If it does restore video, see how long it lasts.

cypherstream

01-21-07, 12:21 PM

BillKen

01-21-07, 12:49 PM

Hi, I have a Motorola 6412 from Comcast. I was wondering how you like the Pace box compared to the Motorola box. Can anyone provide any screenshots of the diagnostics?

I'm currently running version 71.44 of the i-guide software. With the Pace box, is the remote buffer issue common with the Motorola, a thing of the past? Thanks!
So far I prefer the PQ on the Pace vs. the Moto - but Armstrong is all digital - so I'm not experience the analog PQ issues others are. The remote buffer issue is better with the Pace box but still not perfect imho. Still it's better than the Moto. This VoD issue I'm having is really annoying though - as is the power LED brightness and the display LED dimness on the Pace.

If I can I'll try to snap some Diagnostic pics and link them in the next day or so.

dodgeco

01-21-07, 12:53 PM

Yes my Pace says TDC 775D on the front panel just above the power button.

4 light slots? the ones that indicate play 1 / play 2 / rec 1 / rec 2 ? If that's what you mean - they just show what tuner is playing what show or recording what show. The tuner ones only light when you are actively doing something like changing a channel - and the rec ones only light when you are recording something. If you're just sitting there watching the same channel - none of them will be lit up.

So; if I push rec and no lights come on I push play and no lights come on , is it broken,,, the manual is not real clear on any of this other than "it will do this and that" What must I do to have it record on the HD...When it does look like its going to record, its says "vcr" will stop if you continue,,, Is "VCR supposed to be the "dvr" and I just am confused?

wildrock

01-21-07, 01:03 PM

So; if I push rec and no lights come on I push play and no lights come on , is it broken,,, the manual is not real clear on any of this other than "it will do this and that" What must I do to have it record on the HD...When it does look like its going to record, its says "vcr" will stop if you continue,,, Is "VCR supposed to be the "dvr" and I just am confused?what guide software are you using? If you are using TVGuide like most of us (Lindend, does the Tahoe even run other guide software??), you control recordings from the guide, and view them from the dvr section. If you aren't familiar with this, you might want to download the iGuide manual (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/URMD2.pdf) from Motorola (the iGuide or TVGuide manual from Motorola works fine with the Tahoe) to learn about all of the features there. you also might need to ask your cableco about instructions for the remote you have, as the one in the Guides may be different from yours.

Note to lindend: add guide manuals to your list of additions to the Tahoe FAQ website :)

dodgeco

01-21-07, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=wildrock]what guide software are you using? If you are using TVGuide like most of us (Lindend, does the Tahoe even run other guide software??), you control recordings from the guide, and view them from the dvr section. If you aren't familiar with this, you might want to download the iGuide manual (http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/URMD2.pdf) from Motorola (the iGuide or TVGuide manual from Motorola works fine with the Tahoe) to learn about all of the features there. you also might need to ask your cableco about instructions for the remote you have, as the one in the Guides may be different from yours.

thanks, that guide helped a lot,, again thanks

lindend

01-21-07, 02:11 PM

lindend

01-21-07, 02:14 PM

Lindend, does the Tahoe even run other guide software?

Tahoe is capable of running Guide software from multiple vendors. At this point, only TV Guide has been publicly released on Pace set tops.

Note to lindend: add guide manuals to your list of additions to the Tahoe FAQ website :)

I suspect we don't have the rights to do this, but I'll check.

dodgeco

01-21-07, 02:31 PM

I can"t find "DVR" anywhere in the menu,, only "vcr" ,,, Im sorry if these ? seem dumb

Just saw you reply to check with cable co. I will do so Mon. Thanks

istaines

01-22-07, 01:48 AM

I have had a pace 775 from Delta Cable for about 3 weeks now and have experienced increasing instability to the point now where the box is mostly inoperable.

Over the last few weeks with increasing frequency the box would occasionally reboot itself. The reboots were usually when viewing live HD, and were proceeded by video artifacts and then a freeze of the video with audio still present.

Now the reboots have become very frequent. Most recently the box would get in a state where it would reboot continuously. As soon as the reboot was complete it would freeze and reboot again. I found that if I could quickly change to analog content on both tuners I could sometimes break the reboot cycle and the system would be stable for a while.

Also about 50% of the time after an uncommanded reboot the program guide would fail to reload. The box would still attempt to record preprogrammed content, but no guide was ever downloaded and the PVR menu only showed HOME.

I noticed on the OOB screen that the SNR hovers around 20 swapping between FAIR and GOOD. The InBand screens show much better, but still there could be some cable issues.

What could be causing the reboots, and is there a way to reset the device. I have been going to standby for 30 seconds followed by power off, but it does not seem to help?

Is there a way to confirm that the data link is in the process of downloading a new guide?

BillKen

01-22-07, 11:23 AM

Still have the VoD issue - sadly - I'm probably going to have to return the Pace box and go back to my Moto box.

The VoD problem is simply unacceptable at this point for our situation. :\

lindend

01-22-07, 12:03 PM

Now the reboots have become very frequent. Most recently the box would get in a state where it would reboot continuously. As soon as the reboot was complete it would freeze and reboot again. I found that if I could quickly change to analog content on both tuners I could sometimes break the reboot cycle and the system would be stable for a while.

At this point, I'd recommend reformatting your hard drive. Are you willing to lose any recordings you've previously done? If so, please see the instructions I gave wildrock earlier on in this thread to reformat the drive from diagnostics (i.e. press

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
Live

in diagnostics to format the drive).

Note: you may have a List key rather than MyDVR on your remote.

Also about 50% of the time after an uncommanded reboot the program guide would fail to reload.

I don't understand what you mean by guide fail to reload. Do you mean you didn't get guide data?

What could be causing the reboots, and is there a way to reset the device.

Not enough information available right now to determine what the cause is.

I have been going to standby for 30 seconds followed by power off, but it does not seem to help?

I don't think that will help your situation.

Is there a way to confirm that the data link is in the process of downloading a new guide?

Tahoe does a background download when you get a firmware update (i.e. it won't reboot just to download the image). It will only reboot when the image is ready to run. I don't think this is what you are encountering.

BillKen

01-22-07, 12:12 PM

I just spoke with one of the tech manager types at Armstrong and he mentioned that he's had a few reports of this issue.

Linden - before I return the Pace box - do you think there's any chance a fix will be forthcoming soon? I know there's a lot involved to push a new build out and get the carriers to push it through too but I'd really like to keep the box. I'll end up having to pay for both boxes until I return one or the other.

I haven't had a chance to try the turning the TV off thing yet - but I'm assuming that by you suggesting that that you suspect maybe my HDMI "in" on my Samsung TV may be going? I never had this issue with the Moto box - but I suppose it's possible my TV's hdmi in could just happen to start going the same time I switched to the Pace box.

lindend

01-22-07, 01:20 PM

Linden - before I return the Pace box - do you think there's any chance a fix will be forthcoming soon? I know there's a lot involved to push a new build out and get the carriers to push it through too but I'd really like to keep the box. I'll end up having to pay for both boxes until I return one or the other.

It depends on your definition of soon.

To get a fix into a build, we first must:

1. Replicate the problem.
2. Understand what's causing it.
3. Code and test the fix.
4. Release to our various customers.

As you point out, doing a software release that is properly tested can be time consuming.

At this point, we haven't gotten by step #1 yet. We can't replicate this in our labs and I'm still not sure what exactly is causing the problem (I'm not even sure its a software fault in the TDC775 yet--it could be, I just don't know). So, I think the quick answer to your question is I don't know but if a software fix is involved, not likely to be quick on this one until #1 and #2 are solved.

If you do decide to return it, I'd still appreciate it if you could disconnect/reconnect the HDMI cable and report the results.

but I'm assuming that by you suggesting that that you suspect maybe my HDMI "in" on my Samsung TV may be going?

No, I don't think you have a hardware fault in your TV. Hotplug of the HDMI cable will force a lot of software re-negotiation and I'm hopeful the results will tell me something.

BillKen

01-22-07, 01:23 PM

Linden - tried the turning the TV off thing - makes no difference. Still no pic/sound.

However - I noticed something interesting. If I go to VoD while on a channel that does not display the "lock" symbol on the Pace box display indicating a special broadcast security flag - it works fine. If I am on a channel that causes the "lock" to display on the box display - that is when I lose the pic/sound.

EDIT: While I'm sure this isn't a complete test - I've tried this about a dozen more times and every time it's the channels that cause the "lock" symbol to display that cause the VoD dropout.

I'm not sure if that helps or not but it seemed like that was the common outcome every time. I'll keep trying it a few more times just to make absolutely sure but right now it seems as if being on a "locked" broadcast channel before selecting VoD is when the VoD drops out.

BillKen

01-22-07, 01:29 PM

If you do decide to return it, I'd still appreciate it if you could disconnect/reconnect the HDMI cable and report the results.

Ok tried that too - I got the "lost hdcp connection with your tv" dialog box and after about 10 seconds - the show popped on and is running fine.
To get the VoD to NOT work I did tune to a "lock" channel and it did go black as I figured it would - but unplugging the HDMI from the TV did cause the show to come back - still running - as if it never had stopped (which as I think we both agree - it never did stop - just lost the pic/sound to the tv).

lindend

01-22-07, 01:55 PM

but unplugging the HDMI from the TV did cause the show to come back - still running - as if it never had stopped (which as I think we both agree - it never did stop - just lost the pic/sound to the tv).

After you disconnected and then reconnected the HDMI cable, has the video remained on with VOD, or did it turn off after ~30 seconds?

BillKen

01-22-07, 02:11 PM

only tried one time but it remained on - I'll try some more later tonight - gotta head back to the office now.

BillKen

01-22-07, 03:00 PM

My wife just called me - even on the non-locked channels - the VOD is still blacking out - no clue why it worked for me on about 15-20 tries though and as soon as I leave for work it happens for her on the non-lock channels. :confused:

I did try unplugging the HDMI cable one more time before I came back to work - and it did work - and the entire show played w/o blacking out.

BillKen

01-22-07, 04:24 PM

Linden - in your opinion - will PQ be much different over Components vs. HDMI?

I haven't really tested it myself - but I'm considering just getting an optical cable, swapping to components and letting my Xbox 360 pass through the Pace box - and ditching HDMI altogether - even though it will require me to reprogram my Harmony 880 remote.

I really do like the PQ on the Pace box over the Moto (both on HDMI) - so if there's not a big hit PQ-wise with Components I may do it in order to keep the Pace and keep the peace in my house.

lindend

01-22-07, 04:51 PM

Linden - in your opinion - will PQ be much different over Components vs. HDMI?

This is the source of many a religious debate on AVS and elsewhere. Technically, yes, HDMI should yield the best picture. With quality component cables though, I'm not sure you'll see any difference.

However, you may want to ask others besides myself and also experiment on your own as this is highly subjective.

uedmunds

01-22-07, 06:12 PM

Ok so I have read through every one of these (wheww that took awhile) I am a bresnan customer in Billings, MT that recently bought a Samsung 6187S (the best on the market some say :)) I called Bresnan, because of the lag on the Moto box, and they said they have the new Pace and I did a search and here we are. I really think it is great that an individual can come out here and help us tech heads out. I was told though that I should consider waiting like 3 months for the box. What's everyone's thoughts on this?

uedmunds

01-22-07, 06:25 PM

Also this post is out of place but I have found more MT people on here than other posts. Anyone know how to get KHMT and KSVI on HD over the air?

BillKen

01-22-07, 08:53 PM

I was told though that I should consider waiting like 3 months for the box. What's everyone's thoughts on this?
Just my opinion as a user with both boxes for now - unless you have no use for VoD - I'd wait - if you don't care about the VoD flakyness - then I'd get the Pace. Imo the PQ is better than the Moto on SD - but for me - unless the VoD gets fixed fast - I'm going to have to return it and hope they fix VoD later and I can get another.

lindend

01-22-07, 09:35 PM

Just my opinion as a user with both boxes for now - unless you have no use for VoD - I'd wait - if you don't care about the VoD flakyness - then I'd get the Pace.

I'm not trying to minimize your problems (they need to be fixed), but the VOD issues you and wildrock have reported so far appear to be limited to certain HDMI displays under some specific conditions which we've not isolated.

We've tried a large number of HDMI displays that can't replicate the issue in our labs. Also, if uedmunds is using component (or RCA) outputs, then this particular bug won't affect him.

BillKen

01-22-07, 10:23 PM

I'm not trying to minimize your problems (they need to be fixed), but the VOD issues you and wildrock have reported so far appear to be limited to certain HDMI displays under some specific conditions which we've not isolated.

We've tried a large number of HDMI displays that can't replicate the issue in our labs. Also, if uedmunds is using component (or RCA) outputs, then this particular bug won't affect him.
I'm not a HD display expert but if the VoD issue is on certain HDMI displays and 2 that are obviously affected are Samsung and Westinghouse I'd think that's a pretty big issue - those are both pretty sizeable companies with lots of displays out in end user homes. I'd guess if uedmunds has a Samsung 6187S then he's most likely looking to use hdmi (I would be) - or is this issue just affecting the older displays like mine (if you want to call 2 years old - "old")?

I've swapped back to the Moto box tonight and honestly the PQ difference to me is night and day - the Pace box is much much better (as is the user setup choices). My plan is to buy another optical cable tommorow - swap back to the Pace box with components/optical, run the Xbox 360 through the components as pass through and see how it goes.

I really do appreciate your efforts Linden and hope the VoD issue gets fixed - I just can't deal with the angry wife / frustrated 2 year old problem the VoD over hdmi issue causes. I'm much fussier about PQ than they are - whereas they're home all day and having VoD is more important to them.

One of the higher up's at Armstrong told me they've had several other complaints of the VoD issue with the Pace box (if you want his name and phone shoot me a PM). Out of curiousity - is this something you guys are contacted about or do the cable carriers not really bother with making you aware when they have problems/complaints?

Thank you again for your help.

istaines

01-22-07, 10:35 PM

I don't understand what you mean by guide fail to reload. Do you mean you didn't get guide data?

Yes, after a reboot (forced or otherwise) the program guide shows "To be announced" for all the program slots and does not show any channel information. There is also just a single icon on the guide menu for HOME and no pvr or pay per view options. This normally occurs for an hour or so after a reboot, but I have waited overnight with no change. The OOB shows a data connection with ~1000kbs data rate, but nothing ever gets downloaded.

After the last set of crashes, the unit now has a picture but no sound on the HDMI output.

It is a rental box, so I am going to let the cable guy have a go at it tomorrow, but appreciate your feedback.

istaines

01-22-07, 10:41 PM

At this point, I'd recommend reformatting your hard drive. Are you willing to lose any recordings you've previously done? If so, please see the instructions I gave wildrock earlier on in this thread to reformat the drive from diagnostics (i.e. press

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
Live

in diagnostics to format the drive).

Note: you may have a List key rather than MyDVR on your remote.
.

Just curious.

What parts of the configuration are stored in:
FLASH?
SDRAM?
HARD DRIVE?

and what are the options for "resetting" each of these subcomponents of the PVR? I know the cable company has attempted to "reset" the box remotely several times, but I am not sure what exactly they were leaving behind.

lindend

01-22-07, 10:58 PM

I'm not a HD display expert but if the VoD issue is on certain HDMI displays and 2 that are obviously affected are Samsung and Westinghouse I'd think that's a pretty big issue

Not necessarily. We've got numerous Sony HDMI displays here and they work perfectly. Now we haven't tried your particular model yet, but this could be model specific, firmware within a given model or a specific manufacturing batch. Since I can't replicate it yet, we can't quantify the size of the issue at this point.

(if you want to call 2 years old - "old")?

Its ancient in technology terms. ;)

But seriously, it should be fine. Any HDMI display should work.

Out of curiousity - is this something you guys are contacted about or do the cable carriers not really bother with making you aware when they have problems/complaints?

Sorry, can't get into MSO bug reporting processes. Suffice it say that if lots of customers are encountering a problem, we hear about it quick.

lindend

01-22-07, 11:01 PM

Just curious.

What parts of the configuration are stored in:
FLASH?
SDRAM?
HARD DRIVE?

Sorry, but most of this information is proprietary and I can't post about it.

Note that a remote reset will not clear out the HDD, so if there's something funky going on with the hard drive, it won't solve the issue.

Did the HDD reformat help?

dbova

01-22-07, 11:37 PM

You can always remove and re-add the drive (or any other drive) without data loss. However, the content on that drive will only ever be playable on the Tahoe that recorded the content. You can't move it around to a different STB in your house.

Hi Lindend,

Curious what would you see on the drive if you connected it to a PC? Would you see .ts files? I can't get service where I live but since I work for a cable company and I have this STB in my office and currently record shows over firewire. If I can playback recordings that are on the external drive on my PC that would save a lot of time.

wildrock

01-23-07, 02:14 AM

Questions for both BillKen and wildrock.

1. If both of you stay on the Guide screen for several minutes, do you have any issues? If I stay on the VOD guide menu for several minutes, the screen goes blank (hdmi). If I switch to video or component, the screen is still blank. But if I hit the exit button, the VOD menu comes back on. But the music keeps playing.

If I am just in the regular Guide menu, after two minutes, the guide exits, and I go back to a normal screen (hdmi)
channel program

2. When you use component connections to access VOD, how long has it worked (i.e. minutes, hours)?
I just want to rule a couple of things out. Usually it works fine.

I also was able to replicate, many times in a row, going to VOD in hdmi, then losing the video in 10 seconds (just about exactly the same every time). If I switch to video or component, the video comes back fine.

So this seems to be one VOD problem, and it seems to be linked to HDCP (in the past I did get the hdcp message a few times, but not recently). The Westinghouse 37w3 has also been linked to HDCP problems with the PS3, but no one wants to blame the westy outright, as the PS3 hdcp problems happen with other displays, too. Westy has said they have a firmware upgrade workaround for the PS3 HDCP problem, but you have to send the display in, as they have no program for field firmware updates.

The other issue, the one that is the most problematic, is the locking up when I go into VOD that demands a reboot to clear (and can result in lost HD dvr recordings). I've tried to replicate it and predict it, but it seems to be random. I tried going to VOD from a bunch of different conditions: from analog, SD, HD, protected HD, HD w/5.1, analog dvr, HD dvr, while recording. No lockups.

So, I'm not sure what else I can offer here. If there is anything else you want me to test out, I'd be glad to.

ps, does everyone else here get the idea that HDCP is a communist plot :rolleyes: to prevent law-abiding viewers paying good money from actually watching content? I read a good piece at Ars about how the public is getting subjected to beta testing HDCP, and it isn't working all that well (in my mind, one bit of over zealous content protection isn't worth diddly to consumers). Just my chance to put in my 2 cents, here. If you agree linden, you don't have to say anything. But if you try to protect HDCP, you might have a minor revolt here... ;)

lindend

01-23-07, 08:26 AM

Hi Lindend,

Curious what would you see on the drive if you connected it to a PC?

If you have a Linux PC, you'd see a file system with a bunch of files on it. ;)
Windows will just show an unrecognized file system on the partition.

Would you see .ts files?

The MPEG content is encrypted, so even on Linux, you can't play it back. Sorry.

I can't get service where I live but since I work for a cable company and I have this STB in my office

Could I ask what cable company?

lindend

01-23-07, 08:37 AM

If I stay on the VOD guide menu for several minutes, the screen goes blank (hdmi). If I switch to video or component, the screen is still blank. But if I hit the exit button, the VOD menu comes back on. But the music keeps playing.

Hmmm...this almost seems like a problem with the screen saver. Could you temporarily disable the screen saver in the TV Guide settings and see if the problem still happens?

So this seems to be one VOD problem, and it seems to be linked to HDCP (in the past I did get the hdcp message a few times, but not recently).

That's indeed the mystery. I'd have a better grasp on the problem if we always saw the HDCP error rather than just an occasional HDCP warning.

ps, does everyone else here get the idea that HDCP is a communist plot :rolleyes: to prevent law-abiding viewers paying good money from actually watching content?

:D

If you agree linden, you don't have to say anything. But if you try to protect HDCP, you might have a minor revolt here... ;)

No comment. :rolleyes:

However, if you search through E-Media Professional (there may even be an AVS thread too in the archives), you will see an article I wrote on the whole HDMI/HDCP thing a few years back.

wildrock

01-23-07, 01:54 PM

Hmmm...this almost seems like a problem with the screen saver. Could you temporarily disable the screen saver in the TV Guide settings and see if the problem still happens? OK. So I turn off the screen saver, go to VOD, and lose the video on hdmi. I check the component, and it works fine, switch back to hdmi, no video. Then I unplug the hdmi and plug it back in, and then, I get the "you have lost HDCP connection" with the OK button (on the hdmi connection). I hit the OK button, and the video is restored. After this one time hitting the button, I no longer get the "after 10 second video loss on HDMI after going into VOD" syndrome. I try multiple times to get it to happen again, and turn off the display, but nothing--it wants to work fine.

That's indeed the mystery. I'd have a better grasp on the problem if we always saw the HDCP error rather than just an occasional HDCP warning. Well, I think that maybe the other times I saw the HDCP warning was after I unplugged/plugged the HDMI connection. Only the warning only shows up on the HDMI input, not the component, like you were having us look on.

No comment. :rolleyes: haha

However, if you search through E-Media Professional (there may even be an AVS thread too in the archives), you will see an article I wrote on the whole HDMI/HDCP thing a few years back.Nice article. (http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=8498) Gave me a few ideas to try. I turned the display off for 2+ minutes and then tried to see if the VOD/HDMI bug arose. Nope. Then I turned the Tahoe to standby and turned off the display for 2+ minutes, and no bug. So then I rebooted the box, waited 10 minutes or so, and went into VOD. No bug. So I don't know what's happening here to trigger loss of video on HDMI when entering VOD. I guess that's why your'e the engineer, and I'm the fodder for beta testing :rolleyes: .

Anyways, thanks for the good reads at EMedia. Sounds like you know what you're up against. Let me know what else I can do to help.

wildrock

01-23-07, 02:40 PM

This is a bit OT, but after reading some of Linden's writings on EMedia, it has raised some issues I'm involved in peripherally.

Linden, I read your Checkered Flag article with interest, as it gave a nice, fairly unbiased overview of Fair Use and the Copyright Act. I have been looking into technology to provide internet distribution of a variety of forms of video for nonprofit organizations. I have been particularly interested in how commercial concerns have both driven, and limited what the nonprofit sector can do online. For protection of content, I have been looking at the Creative Commons licensing program. And for delivery, utilizing technologies like Democracy and Broadcast Machine, or Zudeo. As both systems embrace bit**torrent (have to disguise the word, as the auto-censors here at AVS bleep out the word) technology for legitimate purposes, and they provide a technically interesting solution to the problems of delivery and bandwidth (been reading up on iTiva and U-verse, and Akamai also), they extend the controversy of piracy and commercial content interests into the arena of nonprofits, and the tools we find available. I think that iptv, and distributed content storage and delivery methods (like BT) really offer an interesting evolution of technology for solving a lot of problems, and creating a lot of opportunities for outfits like the ones I work with.

But as I proceed with developing ways to integrate these newer methods of content delivery, the producers, content developers, and copyright holders I work with are skeptical about copyright protection, and how the Creative Commons program stacks up. Any comments? Maybe there is another forum here we can have a discussion about this.

emerson1

01-23-07, 09:09 PM

So my DVR is going crazy again. I was watching a recording of Heroes in HD, and I switched back to a live basketball game and it went wacko. At first it would let me input a number, but wouldn't switch channel. Now even with the video stopped, I get a message when I switch channels that says "Unable to process request. Cannot delete when the file is in use. Close file and try again. Code CIU"

I got another one the first time that said to call a number, now I am getting this.

lindend

01-23-07, 10:15 PM

So my DVR is going crazy again. I was watching a recording of Heroes in HD, and I switched back to a live basketball game and it went wacko.

Was the game on an analog channel or a digital channel?

At first it would let me input a number, but wouldn't switch channel. Now even with the video stopped, I get a message when I switch channels that says "Unable to process request. Cannot delete when the file is in use. Close file and try again. Code CIU"

I got another one the first time that said to call a number, now I am getting this.

Some things to try.

1. Go into standby. Wait 30 seconds and then hit the power button to come out of standby.
2. If #1 doesn't work, try to do two recordings (on digital channels) from the guide. You can immediately delete the recordings as I'd like to get the tuner off the basketball channel if possible.

Alaska Wolf

01-24-07, 12:30 AM

I've asked several people and places but have not gotten a useable reply. I have asked in the "1394" thread as well. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get drivers that will work with CapDVHS like the ones that I have been using to capture video off my Motorola 6412? I have tried doing it with the Pace to no avail.

I am pretty happy with the box so far. I have BOTH the Pace and Motorola right now.

Lindend,

can I use more than one eSATA drives? Like two of the Seagate 500GB ones?

Wolf

lindend

01-24-07, 08:25 AM

Lindend,

can I use more than one eSATA drives? Like two of the Seagate 500GB ones?

Only a single eSATA drive is supported at this point in time.

BillKen

01-24-07, 10:56 AM

Just an update for me.

I swapped the Pace box to components (using the pass through feature for my Xbox 360 too) and so far it's worked flawlessly. It's only been a little over a day but we've had no VoD dropouts - and the PQ over components is not noticeably different to me than over HDMI - even though the techno-geek in me still wants to use HDMI.

I plan to return my old Moto 6412 phase 3 today - I had tried swapping back to it a day or so ago and just couldn't take the PQ on it after seeing the Pace box - hence my decision to swap to components on the Pace for the time being until Linden can figure out the VoD over HDMI issue (no pressure there Linden!).

Alaska Wolf

01-24-07, 08:33 PM

I received a VERY helpful answer in the "1394 recording" thread and am re posting it here expecting other Pace owners will wish to capture video and encode it to DVD themselves...

Thanks Grittree!!!!

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree
I don't know if the drivers work with the Pace box, but keep in mind there is only one set of drivers (Nov 2003). The only thing newish is the update to the .inf file that matches the device_id of the (different) boxes to the actual drivers. No Pace boxes are listed.

But you can fix that pretty easily. Just d/l the drivers http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/...12_firewire.zip
and patch the meistb.inf file.

First, plug in the 1394 cable and cancel the wizard (3 times). Next go to device manager and disable the AV/C Panel and Unknown devices. That will leave you with one 'bad' device. Double click that and click on 'details'. Write down what it says through ..ID_0. My 3416 says AVC\Motorola&DCT-3412&TYP_5&ID_0\71....

Open meistb.inf with notepad and using 'replace' function (ctrl-h) replace all instances of "AVC\Motorola&DCT-3412&TYP_5&ID_0" with what you wrote down.
Save to a new file such as pace1394.inf.

copy pace1394.inf \windows\inf
copy meistrm.sys \windows
copy meistb.sys \windows

Now, in device manager, update driver for the device. Use pace1394.inf if more than one choice appears. You can safely skip the mstapeo driver.

Install capdvhs and you are done.

Thank you! That was just what I needed! I do believe I am back in business!

:D

Wolf

Alaska Wolf

01-24-07, 10:02 PM

CapDVHS only captures for a few seconds then dies. I will post more after I return from a urgent arrand.

Wolf

istaines

01-25-07, 01:17 AM

After the last set of crashes, the unit now has a picture but no sound on the HDMI connection

Just an update. Still not sure why the box was reseting over and over. I suspect there was a problem with the cable signal. Is it possible that a poor quality signal could cause the PVR to have difficulty decoding HD content leading to crashes? The crashes were always preceeded by artifacts in the HD picture, always occured when viewing HD live (no green light) and did not occur when tuned to analog channels.

Anyways, the crashing stopped, but I still had no audio on my HDMI connection. The TV is a Sharp Aquios and I ended up doing a configuration "reset" to factory defaults on the TV, and afterwards audio was working again on the HDMI channel. I am positive that I did not modify any settings on the TV configuration, and in fact there are no audio options on this set that allow you to disable the audio only the HDMI channle (audio was working on the analog inputs). I have to assume that during one of the crashes or corrupted HD transmission something broke the HDMI setting.