?

I'm just gettng out of high school, and am wondering what most of you do to build these couple thousand dollar rooms. Basically, what is it that you do for a living? Post your yearly salary as well. (If you don't mind/if it doesnt offend you.)

I won't post my salary, but would have to say go to college or university and get a good job and focus on making and saving for retirement (ie. investments) and not a dedicated home theatre. A good investment is a home. I don't make a ton, but work hard and spend very little. I spend on what I really want, like a home with the room to have an HT.

BTW: They are not a couple of thousand, more like a couple of 10 thousands.

Here's my situation. I would say I'm part of the shrinking middle class:

I don't have a dedicated HT right now, but I will by x-mas. Right now, I rent a nice apt. and have 3 comfy chairs in my living room. I painted a wall and used fabric to frame the screen. This is a cheap enough first step. My second step, I bought a duplex (not side by side but up and down) to help with the mortgage. In my unit, I plan on doing changes that will be consistent to my long term plan of it being the bsmt/recroom (i.e.: HT/Pool Table and Bar).

The bottom line is: It's not how much you make (well some of it is), it's how much you spend.

PF



Now anything I buy has to be future proof (last at leat 5 years depending on the product and purpose).

A little at a time, for the blue collar fellas like me. My wife and I make pretty decent money (for around here), but not enough where we dont wait until payday to pay the bills. Around $65k. I just buy a little as I go along and there have been weeks that I am stumped until payday. Thats one of the reasons my HT will take a little longer.

As far as how much money to build a HT..... My theater will probally come in between $20k and $25k, but I am doing all of the construction and everything else by myself. This makes my $25k theater really worth $35k to $40k. IMO
That is a whole lot or money for me but it is a room that our family will get a bunch of enjoyment out of. If it came down to an option of in ground pool or dedicated HT...... well you see that I'm building the theater! lol

And yes the couple or thousand is a REALLY low number. As far as money spent, I am probally in the bottom tier of the dedicated builders, as far as actual cost. There are several, here on the AVS forum, that have reached multiples of 6 figures for their theaters. But as with everything in life, it is all relevant to income. $20,000 to me is the same as $200,000 to others.


Scott

I have to agree with PF - get a degree of some sort that will afford you a job with a future. It does not always have to be a 4 year univeristy or college. Learn a trade or become a engineer what ever suits you. But do not live outside of your means when you graduate. Don't go and bury yourself in debt just for a theater. Buy a house with potential and take your time.

I'll dissent here - yes, maybe get a degree. But getting a job should be only a temporary means until you can be your own business owner. No one ever got rich working for someone. Keep your creative thoughts flowing, find a need, and fill it.

I'll dissent here - yes, maybe get a degree. But getting a job should be only a temporary means until you can be your own business owner. No one ever got rich working for someone. Keep your creative thoughts flowing, find a need, and fill it.

I agree. In fact as a landlord of the duplex (which will in 5-8 be my entire home) I can write off much of the stuff (e.g. I don't want my tenant to be bothered by the bass :) . And as a business owner myself, some items will be a write off for my home (T) office :)

Having a business has its perks. Having a trade or profession has its perks too. Having both is not a bad thing either.

PF

As most have said, and will say, first you need to get a decent job or start your own business. It will take a few years until you get on your feet and begin to have some extra cash after paying all the bills. That's when you start saving for what you want. I consider myself upper middle class and just bought a house. I had great plans to build a dedicated theatre in the basement, but I had to re-do the master bathroom. By re-do I mean complete gut down to the framing. So the theatre is going to have to wait a couple more years until the bathroom is paid for. Well mostly paid for. Unfortunately reading this forum and looking at everyone's construction projects (thanks everyone!) is making it real difficult on me. I'm printing pictures and ripping pages out of magazines and tacking them on the basement wall, so I can atleast think of a theatre. The other thing about having to wait is in a couple years new equipment will be cheaper.

Anyway, that's my story, and probably not much different than many other folks who post here.

I graduated with bachelors and masters in engineering and landed a job in the median of my class at the time. It was 3 years before I moved from a black and white to a color TV.

If you want to know the secret to $ I will share a few obervations:

JOB, there are three pathways:

1) pick a job that has a track to a really high salary, some examples are cardiovascular surgeon, Chief Pathologist etc.

2) If that's not for you, get a job with a GROWING COMPANY and do what ever it takes to position yourself to be promoted to the top. Study the really successful people in the organization you join. Figure out what skills they have and develop them. As an example, if you are not a good public speaker, take classes and practice until you are.

If you wait to be noticed among your peers to be promoted, forget it. Ask your boss to work with you on a game plan to position you for promotion. If he won't, get another job fast. Think about being a star in a small company. All of this is about getting equity in the company you work for. You should have a game plan that get's you to a VP title by the time you are 30. If peer group pressure keeps you from being a "brown noser" or an "over achiever" you'll be doomed to run with the pack rather than being the lead dog. Now if you are going down this track be aware that you might not have a whole lot of time for that theater.


3) Own your own company but make sure it's sucessful.

Some other food for thought. I didn't own anything larger than 27 inches or start my theater until I retired at 52.

I wouldn't consider most of the stuff that I see on here out of reach for the average person, although my "average" is probably upper-middle class.

As with anything, it depends on your income and your priorities.

My tip is to watch your spending. The average American spends way too much of their income, and the amount of consumption in our society is being supported by foreign investment. That isn't going to last forever...

Point being, don't be one of the people who carries credit card debt, makes stupid buying decisions, and lives above their means.

Also, I wouldn't listen to the "start your own business and you're gonna be rich" trend that I see in this thread.

Are you going to college? What are you planning to do?

I like the "watch your spending and keep the credit card debt to a minimum" comments.

I would add that, if you're going to work for someone else, make sure they offer a 401K plan and start contributing to it As Soon As Possible, month after month, rain or shine.

Contribute the maximum amount allowable or until it starts cutting too deeply into your food budget. While you're young (20s, early 30s), there is no reason to invest in lower return, safer instruments like bonds. Instead, go for the most broadly diversified US stock market fund they offer (S&P 500/Total Stock Market) and mix in a good bit of aggressive growth and international growth in there, too. As you get into middle age (late 40s), that is when going a little more conservative makes more sense.

When you see how your quarterly reports look in 15 or 20 years, you'll be wishing you had started contributing into that 401k when you were 2 years old!

As far as starting your own business goes, my observation has been that running your own business in a product or service that you have an absolute passion for is the way to go. There are an awful lot of business owners out there who got into it for the money first and now feel as though the business owns them and have almost no time to do anything else, not even settle down for a few hours on a weekend to enjoy a home theater.

A lot of great advice on this thread.

Remember, a good education is the way to go as a foundation for your career; that being said, I have seen a lot of folks with multiple degrees that can't hold a job.

Don't get caught up in the "I want, therefore I must need this now" game or you'll be trapped in debt up to your eyeballs. To that end, don't charge anything unless you can pay it off as soon as you get the bill. We pay off our credit card every month.

Save the maximum for your 401K - we ate a lot of beans and weenies in the early years, yet we continued to put the maximum into our retirement. Don't assume you'll be taken care of in your later years!

My husband and I are in our late 40s/early 50s. We've been saving for a while. This HT thing is not a necessity, so wait until you have the cash on hand. Another way is to do it in stages - as the money comes in. That's a lot of fun as well (and how we were able to procure our equipment - one or two things at a time. Then we built the room)

One more thing - don't just go for a job that makes lots of money. You could end up the most miserable person in the world. Find your burning desire and find a compatable career to go with that. Good luck!

H.T. and financial advise in one spot - be still my heart.

There are a million ways to skin the cat in places where free enterprise is possible. Get a good job, invest for the future, run your own business(es), etc. But income without savings/investment is meaningless. So live below your means, and prioritize your purchases. I have a friend who is a "starving artist" never made more than double the poverty line (I do his taxes) in his ~15 years of work. He owns a loft with a small mortgage (tons of equity), a suite of electronics (related to his work) that is in the tens of thousands, and has a pile of cash in the bank. He did this all himself by prioritizing his purchases.

My wife and I have lived in our house now for almost 6 years and just started my HT in my basement last year. I did 90% of the construction to save on the costs and am building slowly. And with a new daughter it will take even longer. :)

How slowly, last year I finished the basement (that took 1 year to complete), I then bought my projector, screen, receiver sub and 2 towers for my fronts.; I use a pair of old speakers for my surrounds. For seating I use a chaise that we had upstairs, only one that my wife and I share and when company comes over I have some plastic lawn chairs for them to sit in. This year I will ge getting the rest of my speakers for a true 7.1 setup, accoustical treatment and my theater seats. I still have other things that I will be adding to my basement for it to be complete, but my wife and I only buy what we can afford when we can afford it, if not we wait so we can get what we want instead of settling.

as most people have suggested, get your degree, get your career started and go from there. If you can afford it, buy a house (the best investment there is) and build as you can.

As for how much I have spent, it doesn't seem as bad since it was spread across a few years, but none of it was charged and it is all completely paid for, this way we can enjoy it more. :)

Good luck

I agree with the get a degree comments. Most good paying jobs/careers require a degree, even if it's not directly related to the job. It usually shows that you can be commited and follow through. Find a career. The jobs themselves will come and go, but as long you are in a career, that doesn't matter so much. My degree is in music eduction. I taught at a private boarding school for two years. I moved to Northen Virgina and couldn't find a job. At the time (early 80s), Faifax County schools used get about 100 resumes for every opening. So I decided to change careers. Let me tell you, retail is NOT the way to go! I scraped up enough money and loans to go to a six month computer school. Then the economy was pretty bad and by the time I got into the business, I was 30 and working for managers younger than me. For a while I was getting a new job programming about every 18 months. It's been 20 years and I'm finally feeling like I've caught up and passed them. I remember going to HS re-unions and thinking how others were making more, but I was at the bottom of the payscale and knew I would eventually catch up. There were times I had enough money to do something like this but not enough time, and there were more times when I had enough time but not enough money. Now I have a little of both.

I re-fied my house last year and took out a little cash for the biggest one-time purchases (dricore and sound clips, replacement basement windows, new water heater), but mostly I buy enough lumber for what I'm planning for the weekend (thanks for that tip to BIGmouthinDC!), so I go to HD on a Thursday and spend maybe $50+ on studs and I get a couple of walls built. Eventually it will get done.

I think Tom Peter's "The Peter Principle" should be required reading in ALL college degree programs. Read it now, you'll learn a lot. And in general, the financials are in your priorities. Do you want a new Mustang 5.0 that will cost a small fortune in insurance, or a HT? I've seen so many people complain about what the can't have, and then go on a cruise, or put in hot tub and then complain that they can't go out to dinner when they want to or to the movies or whatever. It's all in your priorities.

Good luck. You CAN make it happen if you really want to. It just may not happen tomorrow.

Tom

Zeek, anyone can afford a $2000 home theater - some people's income limits their ability to buy it all at once. In my situation, I slowly built my home theater as I could afford it.

My advice to you is go to college and get a degree, start saving money for retirement at an early age, work on owning your own home by at least your late 20's, don't ever have a continued revolving balance on your credit card, and be frugal when buying a car.

I'll dissent here - yes, maybe get a degree. But getting a job should be only a temporary means until you can be your own business owner. No one ever got rich working for someone. Keep your creative thoughts flowing, find a need, and fill it.

BINGO !!!!

Ever heard of wall street firms ??

I have many many friends who do work at such firms (hence do work for someone else) and make various millions of dollars every year. I mean, dude !

Wow, all excellent advice.

One thing I like to do for friends around your age is "work the money backwards". Go to your parents or anyone else living like you want to live and ask them what their life costs. Add up their mortgage, taxes, insurances, cars, food, utilities, etc. for a month and calculate what size salary you'll need just to cover these expenses. It's a real eye-opener! Working at McDonalds just won't cut it.

So, take all of the advice above to heart. Get some sort of marketable training. Save and invest where you can. And like you have done here, don't be afraid to ask for advice.

I'm 28 and work at a growing pharmaceutical place in the IT dept. Solid middle class wage. Right now paying off our (me and wife) student loans / debt is killing us. I'm not in the same disposable income class as most here.

What saves us is that I am a hardcore DIY person, and my wife has a great eye for design / decor. I'm about finished with our basement HT / bar / fun room, and would estimate the cost around $2k for me to completely gut the room and redo everything - electrical, walls, floors, etc. This was spaced out over 8 months and counting. Granted I wasn't dropping huge change on green glue, etc.

The key for us was to buy in chunks... $200 on drywall sheets was one of the biggest chunks. Honestly, because I was the labor, money didn't become an issue because I couldn't work fast enough to get to the point where I needed to buy more materials. :)

My modest stereo setup will include DIY speakers - check out parts express / htguide.com. Screen will be DIY... only thing I worry about is the projector cost.

Oh, I'd like to add that our house went from $127k to $160k in two years because of the hard work of me and my wife. So I'd like to say determination is a key as well, not just money.

Follow the one piece of advice my Daddy gave me, "Rich girls need love too." ;)

But, I didn't follow that one. We scrapped by for years finishing school and getting started. Then worked my butt off for 20 years, saved and invested wisely, did OK in trading up houses, and most importantly, took full advantage when interest rates bottomed out.

If you're just getting out of high school (I have a daughter that's graduating this year, too), get your butt in college and find something you're really interested in, even passionate about. When you get out and start working, put together a starter theater, but don't spend too much. Then start planning and dreaming. Frankly, that's half the fun.

Good luck to you!

Randy

Here's 3 other points:

1. Never buy a new car. Always get one that's about 2-3 years old. You'll save about 40% of the cars price that way, (depending on the type of car.) If you were going to buy a new Lincoln Navigator, but instead bought one that was three years old, with the money you saved you can build a Home Theater.

2. Pay the car off, and don't automatically buy another one as soon as you do. That $500 per month you save can get you a theater in fairly short order.

3. Go to law school and represent meth addicts and divorcees for a living. Make profit trading in other people's misery. :) Ok, that one was optional.

I think putting purchases of any magnitude on hold until you are positioned to realistically afford them is the key. I know hanging around here isn't the way to feel good about putting things off till later but that would be my advice. More than a quarter century ago my father had a nice room with a six foot projection TV. I knew then I wanted a room that would be set up like a small theater as my club house/ escape room. It took a very very long time to get there for me.This included eleven years of studies beyond high school. I'm not recommending this path but just that that is the one I took. I had essentially nothing between the early 1970's and the early 1990's

Art

As my dad always says, "you can play now and pay later or pay now and play for the rest of your life". Whether that means studying for a profession or otherwise pursuing a career there is a great deal to be said about delayed gratification. IMO you shouldn't fail to develop diversified interests while young but an investment in yourself early on will pay big dividends.....

Zeek, You're wise now to be considering the cost of toys you might want to have one day.. In my 37 years of learning from my MANY mistakes, I offer you this.. Pick a trade that will land you the cash! Period.. If you think it's something you might want to do, go talk to the people that are now doing it. If you want to be an entrepreneur/business owner.. Seek out the best and talk to them.. get to know what type of person is successful in business. Same thing goes for Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Brokers, Indian Chiefs (well I guess), etc etc. If there's any direction that interests you, learn about it BEFORE someone or parent tells you you "Should" do this or "Should" do that.

Get a grip on what's out there now and what might be out there 10.. 20 years from now. There will always be doctors, there will (unfortunately) always be lawyers.. and unless we pass HR 25 Fairtax bill, there will always be IRS agents :) .. just a plug.

But pick your path wisely, not just on a premise of something some parent wants you to be.

If you want the theater, choose a path that pays the big bucks that you can be passionate about doing. Doctors are indeed passionate about the work they do.. A knee surgeon must be happy when he sees young athletes running again.. and he gets PAID! :)

In short, find something you can pour your heart into that will make you the bucks.. Then you can hire one of these asteemed pro's here to build your theater turn-key and sooner rather than later in life, you'll have the money and the time (money+time= real weath) to enjoy the fruits of wise honest and dedicated work in the RIGHT field for you.

Good Luck! I'd give anything to be where you are now again.. As tough as it may seem, it's ALL infront of you to be consistent and diligent with your choice of career. Learn learn learn, even if you have to take a year off to just scout out different careers for majoring. Also, common sense (how many literature or humanities majors make millions after college? unless of course they're some top 1% novelist or journalist)

By the way.. Very few wealthy folks draw a W-2 (that means you gotta be your own man.. Working for someone else is just filling their pockets).. All just an opinion.

?

I'm just gettng out of high school, and am wondering what most of you do to build these couple thousand dollar rooms. Basically, what is it that you do for a living? Post your yearly salary as well. (If you don't mind/if it doesnt offend you.)


Zeek,

My first 'real' home theater was a spare bedroom. It was a perfect square. I purchased a used CRT projector for $500, a receiver for $200, a VCR for $150, speakers for around $250, and a used couch for free. I painted a section of the front wall white as my screen. My full home theater was about $1000, and it served me well for many years.

What you see on this forum is rarely what people had or used in their first theaters. You see projects here where people put their blood, sweat, and tears into theater builds that might takes years to finish, one paycheck at a time.

The scale of economy is very unique as well, a person making 100K in LA has nearly enough to live on, while that same salary somewhere in Ohio, for example, will allow for plenty of 'extras' such as a home theater.

Today, you can get a home-theater-in-a-box for around $500, and a pretty good used projector for around $500. Add a white bedsheet or paint on the wall, and you should be all set. For $1000 you can get a pretty nice setup (way better than my first setup), one that should last you for many years.

Give yourself realistic goals (but do make sure you give yourself goals), and there is nothing that is out of reach.

It took me many years and I finally have one. It's not what I originally envisioned, but even my budget theater is very enjoyable. This one only cost me a few thousand, and I already had almost all of the equipment by the time I bought it. You can start early by buying pieces that are a good value but useable later. That's what I did. But you're still real early on. Make sure you pick a career you like, or the money will not matter. I had to recently change careers because I hated my career and could not do it anymore. Now I am making so little per year I am embarrased to say. I will add to this advice to be careful of your college major choice. Taking a year off to check things out may be unorthodox, but is time well spent. I wasted my entire college career because now I do not use it. At least I can say I am educated. And do not knock jobs. There are a lot of people I know who are diligent workers who have no education who made a lot more money than I did with much less work and stress working a job at a company. It's all about due diligence. You don't have to be rich to enjoy some nice things. You have to be smart with what resources you have. I have a lot of regrets about my path, which has led to nowhere for me, and I wouldn't wish it upon anybody. Do what you love, do it well, and the money will come. But money won't make you happy. I can promise you that. It is tough to hang out here and see all the stuff you want but can't have. I know how it is. I used to hang out at rx8club.com but I can't anymore, there's no way I could afford that car that I love so much. I drive a crappy F150 that was paid for until I put a new engine in it this year. I can tell you something else from experience that some of the more sucessful people here may not know about because they don't have this problem. Be very mindful of your thoughts in your next 10-15 years. If you expend more brain cycles on the things you want to have than how you are going to get those things, you will never get them, and are in for big disappointment. You ever notice that people who have money many times don't know s*** about the electronics they own or the cars they drive? Think about it.

One thing I like to do for friends around your age is "work the money backwards". Go to your parents or anyone else living like you want to live and ask them what their life costs. Add up their mortgage, taxes, insurances, cars, food, utilities, etc. for a month and calculate what size salary you'll need just to cover these expenses. It's a real eye-opener! Working at McDonalds just won't cut it.

Man, why didn't I come across this a decade ago? :) This is great advice. I was fortunate that I knew what I wanted to do outta high school. I did some undergrad, then got into dental school, and have been working for about 6yrs. Loans are so easy to come by. I had no idea how much it costs just to live until I was part of the work force. By then, I had racked up some lines of credit. Then I learned how long it takes to pay back debt and how much it can hold you back from the real important things in life (home, health, career you love, mate, savings). Travelling is not my thing, I drive an Accord, I don't take holidays, and I live within reason. That diligence is now affording me to build a house with a dedicated HT.

Don't work to pay off material, depreciable things. Don't yearn for $$$ toys and just pick the highest paying job to get paper. It's no way to live. Ask yourself what you are passionate about and pursue it. Then use your available money to buy gear. I assure you the happiness of a 35K theater will wear thin compared to the happiness of working a job you love. Stay at home if possible, but save the money you would otherwise pay to rent. Staying home doesn't mean you can drive a RSX Type-S or buy a DLP PJ. :)

One more thing that I have not seen mentioned here as often as I thought it would be.

Get a job that you will like. I know several people that could have any theater they wanted (pretty much unlimited funds) but HATE their jobs. I'll admit that I'm lucky in the sense that I love my job and it does afford me that abilty to feed the kids, keep them healthy, live in a home that I am comfortable in, save for the future and last but not least have a dedicated room.

Zeek....seriously consider grad school of some sort if you want money to be something you dont have to think about anymore.

Avg us salary is 42,000/year, you can double that with a PhD.


You can triple it with a PhD in some healthcare division or JD

You can 10x it with M.D.

Do something you love, but in all the fields out there, theres plenty you might love and get paid well.

Buy a run down tax sale house and learn to fix it up....i promise this will be the best learning and financial experience of your life.

Get your money into retirement funds RIGHT NOW, TODAY. Einstien is quoted as saying the most powerful force in the universe is "compounding interest" (if you start now, you will retire at 50 as a millionaire or 65 as a multimillionair)

Wow... This advice is stinking amazing! I have always looked around at what different things people do and how they got there...

Well I can explain my situation.

I don't have the best of grades, so I am bound to going to a Jr.College, (most likely CUESTA, www.cuesta.edu)

But this is what I like. My buddy got accepted to Cal Poly, and his parents are paying for his housing in San Luis Obispo, (the beach, yes!). I get to stay with him at a house on the beach, with his parents paying for our rent. I'll be going to CUESTA (and hopefully Cal Poly after two years).

I work at Starbucks, making about 200 bucks every two weeks, I don't really spend a dime. I dont need anything...I eat my parents' food and don't like eating out anyways because it makes me fat.

I have a truck. My sisters boyfriend sold it to me very cheap, he put a new tranmission and engine in it, got it all "pimped out" lowered, all that good stuff. it's really nice.

Now my only thing is...I don't know whatthe heck I want to do. I would love a degree in business, but I don't know what services to offer. I was thinking of owning a web site hosting server thingy in San Luis? I'm not sure. i can never think of any needs that need to be met.

I also have been told to look at a trade such as being an electrician. I don't mind going to school if it's going to make the rest of my life good.

I also thank you all very much for replying to this, most people give me the typical.."Go away, kid! Ya botha' me!"

Any ideas?

I disagree that you have to work for yourself if you want to do well financially. I agree that it can be really beneficial, but there are lots of people who own their own businesses that aren't rich. They are often whip-sawed by the economy even more than salaried employees.

If you look around any city you will see thousands of expensive houses that are being built and lived in by salaried people. The key: The husband and wife both make a good living as salaried employees because they have a good education. If you (and your wife) both have degrees in business, marketing, or some technical field, then you likely have close to (if not over) $125K combined income by the time you are 30. That's doing pretty darned well by any standard. Not rich, but good enough to put you in the top 5% of family incomes (at 30!!). If you each put $12K into a 401K and you're lucky enough to have a company that matches, that's almost $50K per year towards retirement.

Don't underestimate the importance of a good education. Yes, you can do well if you don't go to college, but it is harder -- especially in an increasingly hi-tech world. It's not easy to "find a niche and fill it", especially when you're trying to put bread on the table and survive paycheck to paycheck. A good college degree (in a good field) will all but ensure that you have a decent lifestyle. With that under your belt, use what you have learned to start your own company and try to get rich if you are so-inclined. Don't forget, Bill Gates and Michael Dell both had upper middle-class parents (Gates' dad was a doctor). If you start out trying to get rich without a solid foundation, then you will likely end up as yet another 45 year-old dreamer who is still trying to "strike it rich."

BTW, if you ask most savy financial planners the best way to get rich, they'll say don't get divorced. It can be financially devastating for both parties, so choose your spouse carefully.

Go two years in a Jr college (get good grades) and then transfer to a 4 year school for the last two years. When you graduate, your degree will be the same as the people who went there all 4 years - but you'll have paid a lot less in tuition.

Electrician, a tech degree or business degree's are all fine choices. Take classes in the last two (maybe apprentice in the first for a summer job - I wish I had those kind of skills) and figure out what you like and what you are good at. You have 5 years to try things on for size. Have a good bit of fun, but take it seriously. If you make a consistent to at least not skip any classes, you will be in pretty good shape through college (there is still more work to do, but skipping classes kills your ability to catch up).

My father talked me into studying accounting under the analysis that if you understand where the money goes in business, you will be able to make good decisions even if you opted for another field or part of business. It is decent advice - you don't have to major in it, but good classes to take if you go the business path.

This is all great advice. I see common themes here I think we can all agree. Get as much dadgum education you can and put your passion into your career for money is not the end, but just a means while the work is the fulfilling thing.. My job is my job and it pays the bills.. But it basically allows me to come home to my new house to my wonderful wife and baby boy and THOSE are the reasons I do it.

As far as education goes: Shoot higher.. I've got a 4 yr bachelor's Engineering degree and I still kick myself for stopping there.. Shoot for at the very least a bachelors. Any shmo now can get one.. It's what you learn to get that piece of paper that is the key. And when you do get out into the world, love what you do.. Do what you love. Be it electrician, plumber, or heart surgeon.. Be the best at it you can be.. regardless the career path. It's all about the mark you leave on the world..

Also, now at this time, know one thing.. That you're capable of FAR MORE than you might think.. So don't settle for a particular school or a particular 2 year program if you haven't at least investigated the possible school opportunities out there. I passed up the Citidel, Boston College, GA State, GA, GA Tech, NC State, and a few others that kept sending me mail.. because I was a just plain scared 18 year old and I didn't know what direction to go. So I went to a local college and busted my A@# and got a degree, but I could have put the same amount of sweat for the same degree from a much higher respected school with a much more worldly outlook by getting out of my nest, out of the shell. Not to pry but just a question for thought.. Where have you applied?? Have you applied to some schools you thought might be out of reach? Give them a shot.

Ok sorry to be deep but I'm an old guy who'd give anything to have the choices infront of me that you have.. On a lighter note... Rent the movie "Rudy". Watch it twice. No bull.. There's wisdom there.. Most of us wish to have a dream half that intense, to push beyond all obstacles as long as it takes, as much as it takes. Not just as much as we can give, but whatever it takes. Then look back and see what you've done. Now THAT's living! :) Then you can go chill and crank up the B&W 800D's and catch a flick on the new Qualia projector someday. hehehehehehehe :p

Oh, and I haven't built my theater yet.. I got a brand new (new to me) bare basement with potential and a plan.. I'll probably have as much fun building it as using it.. Lot's of dricore, lumber, drywall and lighting. I'll estimate hopefully under $10k.. I hope.. I have all the speakers and most of the electronics now minus a big honkin' amplifier and projector and screen and lighting and a few other goodies, but it's all about the room to me at this point. The real fun will be swinging the hammer and laying carpet and paint. :)

Zeek,
It sounds like you're taking time to consider options and look toward your future. Congradulations! Too many people live their lives day to day and never consider what lies ahead. A lot of great advice is provided here from a lot of experienced people.

One thing I started doing years ago was delaying each purchase larger than X amount. It could be $50 or $500, depending on the item. Why? It kept me from rushing out and spending money on something I really wanted at that moment, but might not really really want next week. I found that if I waited some period of time, a week, a month, whatever, and I still really wanted the item, then I gave more consideration to buying it. You'd be surprised how many times something didn't look nearly as good after a week away from it. Generally, the more expensive the item, the longer the time period I waited. Impulse buying and credit cards with high interest rates can just kill you.

On the subject of jobs and careers. One of the purposes of college (at least a liberal arts degree) is to expose the person to lots of ideas, and experiences. There is no need at 18 or 19 to choose your life's work. Take a look at both what you enjoy doing and what you are good at. If you are good at talking to people and want to be compensated for your accomplishments, perhaps some sort of sales position would work well. If you are good at science, perhaps an engineering or medical career is for you. The point is take your time and consider lots of options. Most of my friends in college changed majors at least 3 time before graduation. I know I did.

Zeek,

In California, the JC option is a really good deal, especially compared with most other places. I went to UC Berkeley, and many of my friends didn't do all that well in high school or couldn't afford to go straight to a UC, or just weren't quite ready. So they did 2 years in a JC, then transferred to a UC, and did better on average than people who went straight to Berkeley from high school. That path is highly recommended, and well respected.

Don't worry about not knowing what you want to do. You've got time to figure it out, and what you want now will change anyway. Take physics and math from the start. That will make sure you don't lose any options later. And you'll learn fairly quickly if you want to do something technical or not. Everything else you can make up for later, so you don't really need to decide until you transfer. And even then, engineering is the only thing that you really have to major in in order to make a career out of it -- any 4 year degree, in anything, is otherwise equivalent. You'll pretty much need a 4 year degree to get anywhere, and there's no reason you can't be an electrician with a bachelors, if you eventually decide thats your thing. A degree puts you in a different class, and fair or not, you will be judged.

As for the own business vs. regular paycheck, it is purely a matter of your own temperment. Some people love the hard work and sense of ownership of a business. Some people like the relative certainty and freedom of just taking a check, and going home at the end of the day and not worrying about the business. There is no shortage of obscenely rich people on both sides. (No shortage of poor people either). [Remember, the fortune 500 CEOs get a W2].

Since you asked how we all got here: Bachelors in physics, then 2 years teaching high school and working in a research lab, then 6 years of grad school for a PhD. Salary during those six years ranged from $11,086 to ~$16k. And on that I lived pretty well (e.g. vacations in spain, turkey, thailand, the carribbean). The key was identifying luxury as luxury - and on 11k/year, a donut is luxury. So is an extra value meal. And I mean that literally. No cable, B&W tv, coupon clipping, etc. I also would follow opportunity, rather than chose luxuries -- eg, tag along on a friend's trip, not plan any vacation of my own dreams.

Ultimately, I decided to leave academic physics and go into engineering, since it was half the work and twice the money. If I loved it I wouln't be typing this, I'd be working. But I don't hate it -- that's key -- and I get fufillment elsewhere, (eg theater building). My wife and I have the same job and background, gross around 160 or so combined (33 yrs old, but only 4 years working), and have a $500k house (cheap for where we live) which we easily affort along with max 401k/ira contributions (36k/yr) and get 3 weeks off a year, working my 40/wk and no more. I make maybe $5k more than co workers with no PhD. Where we live we are on the "poor" end of the spectrum, but I've been around enough to know how silly that sounds.

All this came after a decade of eating ramen noodles while watching friends (with real jobs) buy nice toys while we were left behind, and that sense of considering every small purchase and 'feeling' poor made what we have now possible.

This is already way too long, but the other thing I'd add is to track your own spending. Carry around a notebook for a few months, and record every penny, and see how they add up.

Josh

What ever you do, don't settle for a job where you are basically doing time to pay the bills.

Have you ever met someone who said I've been a ________ for 25 years.
quite often you find that they basically have 1 year of experience repeated 25 times and they've settled for a cost of living increase 25 times. When you get a job, challenge yourself to keep growing. A college education should be just the down payment on a lifetime of learning.

quite often you find that they basically have 1 year of experience repeated 25 times

This is SO true in the IT world. When I first started consulting I would get thrown into a situation at a company and the first thing I would have to do is figure out who was smart because they were smart and who was smart because they'd been on the same project for 10 years. It became obvious to me that after 3 three years I had done more than most people with 5 years experience. So I started applying for jobs that required 5 years experience. My resume would get me in the door but I would make sure to make that analogy..."there are 5 years experience and then there is 1 year's experience 5 times. Who do you want working for you?"

Zeek -
I had a blacksheep uncle gave me some advice when I working a summer job at a cement factory. I was complaining about the idiot foreman. My uncle asked me how the cement we were making worked. I said I didn't know. He said, "I'll bet your boss doesn't know, and probably HIS boss, either. If you go find out, you'll be smarter than all of them." So I did and I guess my attitude changed because he didn't treat me the same after that. But I quit after he made me go outside and run the front end loader around in the dark to load up the hopper. I mean NO LIGHTS in the yard or on the decrepit loader. I had to drive up a ramp to dump the load and nearly drove off the side of it because they had run black slag in earlier to make asphalt so I couldn't see the edge of the ramp. It was pretty good money, but it wasn't worth maiming or killing myself over.

I guess the moral is you need to have a couple of really crappy jobs to know what a good job is.

Tom

Just watched an episode of Trading Spaces - the show where neighbors do a room in the others house for a grand. It was actually filmed in Portland, OR!

For a grand they took the guys basement family room and made an art deco theater out of it! They hung his 27" TV behind a sewn curtain, covered all the walls with curtains. Cheaply constructed risers ("stadium seating") and wallmart gaming chairs. The nice touch was the sconce things - bent plywood strung up with drapery rods. Now maybe you don't have a grand - but you can over a year add to it $100/mo. The way to afford the theater is not to build something beyond your means. The end result was something that looked nice for the money, and accidently with curtains/diffusers probably did not sound horrible!

You can easily add on to it with a cheap projector an HTiB sound system. You just need to take on a hardworking disgusting summer job. My favorite was sandblasting and painting guard rails at the mill - and painting an old helipad gas tank in triple digit heat in full OSHA approved respirator!

I'll give an option from the other end of the spectrum, I am 24 now

I opened my first business, and only business so far when I was 16 with the help of a friends father. It was "we deliver anything" in Montreal, before I moved to Ottawa. I figured when people wanted to eat and order in they had the options of Pizza, Chinese, KFC and more Pizza.

So I decided to offer a delivery service with a $5 premium and we would get you anything you wanted, from McDonalds, Wendy's, Subway {all the major fast foods}, groceries, which where a $20 premium. Cigarettes etc etc... anything you could think of even a DVD {whatever you needed} or a basic lift across town.

I stayed home and answered the phones, I had 8 drivers, 4 drivers per 8 hour shift. 16 hour days, I charged them $50 a day for my clientel and they got to keep all tips and extra money made after there $50 was paid, I was making $400 a day x7 but I had no time to do anything else. but at $3000 a week I was happy to do it... Most of my clientel came from hotels after printing up thousands of flyers and menus to drop off door to door and to the hotels...

Before I moved to Ottawa I sold the business to my friends father and made a very nice profit for a 20 year old, I had no time for anything else so I saved most of my money and now run my uncles painting company and teach martial arts on the side. I decided to exploit people's general lazyness but I am sure there are many other ways to accomplish something similar... You just have to find a niche that hasn't been filled...

Now me and the wife have just bought a house and I am in the process of putting together my first home theater, cant wait until its done... or should I say started lol.

Follow the one piece of advice my Daddy gave me, "Rich girls need love too." ;)




funny my dad use to say "its easy to fall in love with a poor girls as it is with a rich girl"....

If you're just getting out of high school (I have a daughter that's graduating this year, too), get your butt in college and find something you're really interested in, even passionate about.

One addendum to this, is that some majors in college are worth more than others in the real world. I know more than a few broke English, Philosphpy, and Liberal Arts majors who went on to drive cabs or manage/asst. manage a fast food place. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you're going to spend 4 years paying through the nose for the education you should have been getting in high school, you might as well spend that time in something that's going to make you good money. Or, just get used to being broke but happy (which never worked for me). I was a Philosophy major in college, though I tempered that by double majoring in Computer Science. After the first semester if became clear I should minor in philosophy at the most if I was really interested in it, but that it wasn't going to do much for me career wise. Then after two semesters, I realized that technology was moving faster in the real world than it was on campus, and that I'd be years behind the real world when I finally got my degree. So...

I broke most of the rules. I dropped out of college, married young, had kids young, but I still managed to be successful while not compromising my ethics. Part of it was being in the right place at the right time (dot com boom), but I also started to develop an idea of what I wanted to do with my life. There have defnitely been some stumbling blocks along the way, like a high profile corporate bankruptcy and ensuring recession that ate all my savings/retirement and nearly left me in bankruptcy as well. But the Lord provided and everything worked out.

My best advice, especially for someone getting started:

Invest in your education, whether that's at a university or in a skilled trade. I know custom carpenters who make as much or more than your average doctor, and they didn't spend nearly the money that a doctor did on college + med school, nor do they have to deal with insanely priced malpractice insurance. Both have their benefits and risks.

Be frugal. There's no shame in buying used or refurbished, especially when it comes to cars and electronics.

Live below your means. When you start working, donate/tithe the first 10%, save the next 10%, and live off the other 80% of your income. If you don't feel like being charitible or don't have religious reasons to tithe, then save that first 10% as well. You'll never live beyond your means that way, plus you'll have money stashed away for emergencies or the occasional good investment deal.

And if you're just starting out, don't rent. If you don't live in an insanely overvalued market like most of urban California, urban Florida, Phoenix, etc. buy the best house you can that you can afford in a decent neighborhood and get a roomate or two to pay you rent to help subsidize the mortgage. Usually their rent can cover a mortgage completely and let you live rent free while their rent will build equity for you. And unless you pick a poor neighborhood or don't take care of the house you'll make money.

I suggest picking up a copy of The Millionaire Nextdoor at your local used bookstore or ebay, and read up on how most truly wealthy people actually live. It's pretty interesting reading.

Joseph

I can sum up Millionaire Next Door

Invest early and regularly, drive a used car for 20 years, wear the same cloths for years, small home and not carry a debt / mortagage.

I feel like I should add my perspective, as a youngin' (turning 24 in 8 days :eek: ) about a year out of college. I got a degree in business admin. w/marketing major and agree wholeheartedly with those that have emphasized that doing something you enjoy is just as if not more important than your potential salary. I'm at work what seems like 90% of my life, if I didn't enjoy at least some of it, well you get the point.

I don't make much but I have been fortunate enough to live at home free of rent and most other expenses (I still pay cell phone and paying off a small car loan). But I am lucky enough to have excellent full medical coverage from my employer! My school loan takes away half of my income each month. The remains is split between day-to-day stuff and bills, and I end up being able to put at least some into the bank.

I made an irrational-to-some decision the other day (after 8 months of research and deliberation) to purchase this (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_42to51TVs&ProductSKU=KDFE42A10&TabName=specs&var2=) . Allow me to defend the decision quickly, Incredible price for an Incredible tv. If I didn't get the TV now, I wouldn't have been able to afford it for many many years. Sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot. I received a $1,200 tax refund thanks to a once-only deduction for reaching so many hours of school, and that funded the majority of the purchase. I always avoided credit cards through college thinking I was playing it safe, but that resulted in me not having much of a credit history, which can be as bad as having bad credit. So, tied in with the tv was an 18 month no interest Sears Credit card, since I already have the money it was an excellent opportunity to build my credit.

While I may have $50k in school loans to pay back, I've always known that would be the case. My family makes just over the max amount to be considered for significant federal aid; federal loans were the only remaining option. Yes, I realize that I could've taken that $1,200 tax return and knocked a chunk off of the loan. Seeing as it's only 1/50th of the loan, the extreme amount of happiness and entertainment I'll get out of the TV more than makes up the difference . Afterall, happiness is hard to put a price on.

My immediate future plans revolve around building up a savings account now that I have a checking account with substantial backing. From there I'll look into making safe investments out of my savings, as well as a retirement or college-fund for any kids I might have down the road (not anytime soon). Hell I'm not even planning on marriage anytime soon. Eesh. Okay, enough "pondering what lies ahead."

Sorry for the long-winded post.

Cheers :D

Be frugal. There's no shame in buying used or refurbished, especially when it comes to cars and electronics.
Joseph

Amen to that. I avoid paying full price for things, always. You'd be amazed how much you can save when you make the effort. Don't fall into the trap of buying into good deals on things that you don't need, i.e. don't just buy something because it's a good deal and you like the item. That's a hard rule to follow, and I'll admit I don't always do a good job of following it.

I also have one reservation that keeps me from scrimping every penny with the future in mind. None of us are guaranteed any length of time on this earth. What frightens me is the scenario where you sacrifice and save only to have something happen that prevents you from ever reaping the benefits. As often is the case, one extreme or another is not a good thing; balance the saving with purchases that make you happy.

I can sum up Millionaire Next Door

Invest early and regularly, drive a used car for 20 years, wear the same cloths for years, small home and not carry a debt / mortagage.

... And then you die on your big pile of money, and your kids buy new cars, new clothes and a nice big house with it (after the government takes half of it back of course) :D

Andy K.

... And then you die on your big pile of money, and your kids buy new cars, new clothes and a nice big house with it (after the government takes half of it back of course) :D

Andy K.


I'm taking every stinkin' penny with me! :) I'm not giving them anything!

Follow the one piece of advice my Daddy gave me, "Rich girls need love too." ;)
Along the same line of thinking, but deeper: Choose your parents wisely.

I find it odd that the self-employed vs. employee option is presented as a mutually exclusive choice.

Why not both?

I get a W2 (i'm an employee), a 1099 (i also work for a contractor), and do my own side-business consulting and declare that on sched.C, too.

I've been both an employee (only) and also solely on my own (IT industry) and wanted some income stability (aka: a job) but didn't want to cut my rate as much, so i negotiated "salaried part time with benefits" this allows me to work outside of my employer for additional higher-rate pay, which also allows me to write off mileage and my tools/gear; yet have a job for a "bills are covered" paycheck and life/health/disability insurances.

it's not perfect for everyone, but the decision, in my mind, should not "either self-employed or employee"

The key to either is: effort. Done purely and with enough intensite it leads to results. But don't just aim for the results, ie: Not just grades, and job reviews. Take it from a college drop out: if i had any idea what kind of joy i get (now) from a job well done through real effort, i would've worked harder then, not so i wouldn't be 'judged' b/c of my lack of degree (as someone rightfully pointed out above) but b/c of the satisfaction of the mountain climbed.

The biggest challenge to any 'boss' (be it an employer boss, or a client/boss) is labor. They need sober, consistant, timely, attentive, thinking, creative, and hard-working people. Be one of those, and you'll have more opportunities than time. But even as an employee, think of yourself as a contractor, don't be taken for granted, and always be sure you're getting as much benefit out of the relationship as they employer. Rembmember, if you are truly the hardest working person on your floor, and you're making $60k, and so is the slacker next cube over, you should be at $75 and them at $45, and not averaged. Sometimes you have to leave and go elsewhere, which is fine, b/c you're a contractor at heart. :)

A boss wants to know that your part of the task is "handled". Now that doesn't mean you don't ask for help, you definitely do, but what you need to learn is:

1) "managing expectations" - research that and why asking for help just before the deadline is a no-no
2) "stretch yourself" - get to know your capabilities, and tackle tasks *just* beyond what you can do 'now'. B/c by the time the task is done, you'll be competent.

If it's carpentry: make some custom furniture on your own your day job working as a framer, etc, or for non-profits for the cost of materials (this is where you startup sm.bus comes in) after .

If it's IT, setup and test and practice on family websites (webhosting don't need a static ip and a rack of servers, start with dyndns.org, linux and a pentium 2), network support (sys-admin'ing on your system, then friends, then elderly for free, you'll get lotsa referrals to relatives, etc), or programming for smartphone/pocket-pc (programming track, cheap to get older generations to play with) get the apps (like VB, dreamweaver, etc) via your school DIRT cheap and practice on your own time.

This applies to almost any other trade or white-collar field, just find one of the many many non-profits that woudl be willing for you to clean floors in their counseling offices or take notes at board meetings, etc, at no charge at first; find a leader who will give you a chance to work your way up part time. If they see intensity in your eyes, and you exhibit those skilz above (learn how softskills and manners actually can make a bigger difference than hard/cognative skills in most fields)

As you side-job client-base builds, your rate climbs, your network of contacts grow, your rep climbs. All the while you 'job' pays the bills, then you can switch jobs - all of my jobs came from past clients or referrals from past clients.

But note, this is all easier to do if you're single or have a supportive spouse, and you're childless at first, trust me, those little bundles of joy are time-suckers, but are more rewarding than you can imagine, but i digress...

Even if your first 'side' venture doesn't take off, thats fine, you'll have learned about 'organizing' an LLC (www.nolo.com) and that will serve you in your next venture, how to do your taxes or work with an advisor, how to invest, how to raise funds (even if a loan from a friend of a friend), how to structure a profit sharing or ownership agreement, learn about the time-value-of money, and risk/reward ratios, and why Venture Capitalists want 50% stake, etc. How to evaluate reseller/partnership/referral agreements. Wisdom comes in not just successes, but through action.

Confidence through competence. What you happen to be competent at can either be a product of your genes, what you learned to do growing up, or what you expose yourself to in the coming years. Only the 3rd one is in your control... the ball is in your court.


(the millionaire next door is good, and surprisingly common sense; look up Ric Edelman, then look up "who moved my cheese" for an older generation but still worth reading; but at your age, i highly recommend: the "e-myth"--- it spawned a whole catalog of schwag, just buy the original paperback, it helps to understnad the differences between the skills and roles of the baker, the bakery manager, and the entreprenuer the owns the bakery; which traits you currently have, and which you'd need to develop if you envision to be one of those 3 'roles'... but most of all, don't type-cast yourself. what you do is limited only by your level of effort. and a good baker/mgr/owner can all have sweet Home Theaters - the key is earning it through effort.

I can sum up Millionaire Next Door

Invest early and regularly, drive a used car for 20 years, wear the same cloths for years, small home and not carry a debt / mortagage.

That sum neglects some of the details, which are important. Also, I don't remember the part about not carrying a mortgage or a small home. A mortgage, provided it's never more than double your salary/home income (as suggested in the book), is a great financial instrument. The interest is deductable against your federal taxes. Maybe it was a good idea to pay off your mortgage when mortgages could be called due at any time (like during the Great Depression) , but that's not likely now unless you're already in default.

And all of my suits are several years old now. But it doesn't matter how old they are because they are well made and taken care of, and the classic looks never look dated so I stay away from trendy designs or cuts. None of my suits cost more than $600 for pants, jacket, shirt, the occasional pair of cufflinks and shoes, though I admit I got the employee discount when I worked at Neiman Marcus. Even with the discount, I couldn't stomach the idea of spending lots of money on a Brioni suit. And my Bruno Malis were a bit on the uncomfortable side, but I'm not sure if that's because I wear a size 13 or not.

The whole point of the book was don't get caught up in consumerism and live beyond your means by going into debt.

Joseph

Amen to that. I avoid paying full price for things, always. You'd be amazed how much you can save when you make the effort. Don't fall into the trap of buying into good deals on things that you don't need, i.e. don't just buy something because it's a good deal and you like the item. That's a hard rule to follow, and I'll admit I don't always do a good job of following it.

I also have one reservation that keeps me from scrimping every penny with the future in mind. None of us are guaranteed any length of time on this earth. What frightens me is the scenario where you sacrifice and save only to have something happen that prevents you from ever reaping the benefits. As often is the case, one extreme or another is not a good thing; balance the saving with purchases that make you happy.

I guess it depends upon your situation. For me, I have a wife and four minor children, so anything I leave behind goes to them should I pass on. That lets me sleep easy at night, which is benefit enough. Of course, my father died when I was just entering my teen years, so I don't want them to know what that is like should anything happen to me. Obviously it's a very personal issue, and the reason why real financial planning is best done on an individual basis.

Joseph

Okay, So I've decided to become an electrician. Because I get paid to go to school (10$/hour not bad for just getting out of highschool.) And then 30-40$/hour when I'm done being an apprentice. I'm nt moving to the coast, I went and scoped it out and it's wayyyyyy expensive there. I'm wanting to become a contractor once I get my liscense, are there any contractors here that can give me some good advice or anything?

Thank you all for helping me out I printed all of this stuff out and put it in a binder, I read it alll the time...

Okay, you guys really want to know the truth? Its like any other major purchase you make. Its called FINANCING. :D

Just kidding. Mine is a paycheck by paycheck endeavor with a few bonuses thrown in. Thats why its going to take me several years to complete. :o

For me it's a matter of saving for the HT. Yep NO credit for me (I nearly lost everything years back due to bad management) so I paid everything off and now only buy what I can afford. I have saved $35k in the past so it's not impossible just not the instant gratification. I did however get a pre-paid credit card (which I strongly suggest for our younger folks) You just put money on it (how ever much you want) and use it like a "normal" CC You'd be surprized how much you save if you cut out fast food and the morning "coffee". Sorry did not mean to sound preachy just thrifty.

Cheers,
Jeff

Find a job in which people pay you to do things they don't want to or can not do themselves, plane and simple. I find the more gross and specialized it is the more people are willing to pay.

Everyday people ask me and I quote, "how do you do your job everyday and not get disgusted by it?" What do I do...I cut gums, scrape teeth and when all else fails, yank 'em and screw in titanium implants. Thats right I'm your friendly neighborhood periodontist.

Honestly, I really love my job. I get to help people with their problems everyday, don't have to deal with life and death situations, tinker around with all sorts of mechanical toys and get paid pretty good to boot!

Also while I agree with a lot of the comments here about saving your money blah, blah, blah, if you look at some of the most recent info on this bird flu thing I say spend it while you got it cause were all going to be dead in a year anyway (or at least half of us).

This is pathetic I know but I work at Stock Components, (it's a lumber yard). It does build up muscles to help me lift my heavy T.V.!

See what a great forum this is?

A young guy asks an HT question and bang, he's got 50 fathers giving him life advice like he's their own son. Amazing really.

My advice Zeek:
Follow whatever passion you have. It will lead you to places you can't imagine.
By the time you're ready to build your dream theater, you may only have to put on a headset.

Lots of good advice here, my advice?

1) Look at the top 30% careers - find one you'll enjoy and be passionate about. The more you enjoy the job and are passionate about it, the more effort you'll put into it, the more you'll stand out, the higher salary and more promotions you'll receive. Like another mentioned, be the guy with 5 years of experience, not the one with 5 1 year experiences.

2) Invest early and often. Compound revenue is extremely powerful. This is mostly retirement advice, though.

3) Always buy used, unless you can't. Not only for cars, but for most everything else, a used product will give you 90% of the new product but for 25% less (at least).

4) When you're young, buy only what you need, not what you want. Use the extra money to invest, in a few years, you'll have much more money to use as you wish.

5) Live in a low-cost location (i.e. not California/Florida/New York). You can get a 4 bedroom home in San Diego for 600k or you can get a 4 bedroom home in Arizona for 250k. Guess what you get to do with the money you save on your mortgage? Investing better be part of this answer!

A good way to supplement income is find the worst house in the best neighborhood and renovate it while you rent it and then sell it. This will always give you a good ROI (return on investment). You won't have a hard time keeping it rented because people are always looking for a rental in a nice area (good schools, lake view, etc.), so manage it yourself.

I don't mind going to school if it's going to make the rest of my life good.


School doesn't make your life good. You make of your life what you want it to be. School is a tool. The hammer doesn't build the house, the carpenter builds the house. You are the carpenter, school is the tool, and your life is the house.

Don't worry about a home theater right now. Worry about what you want to be and the path you need to walk to get there. Everything else will fall into place, including the home theater. But don't base your decision on what you want to do with your life on your desire for a home theater.

You'll find that people on this forum who have home theaters come from a wide variety of professions.

I can sum up Millionaire Next Door

Invest early and regularly, drive a used car for 20 years, wear the same cloths for years, small home and not carry a debt / mortagage.

Zeek - you have already gotten about all the good advice you probably can but I had to chime in on this particular book because I see it referenced a lot (not here, but in these types of discussions). It is an interesting read, but you need to understand its analysis is statistically flawed.

It sufferes from a statistical error known as "survivorship bias". That is, it gives a bunch of examples of millionares and how they got there. That is backwards analysis because the only people that get talked to are the ones that were successful. You have no idea how many people took the exact same path but maybe didn't invest quite the same way and, therefore, were not successful.

That is not to refute that saving and living below your means are good things - they are. I just wanted to point out that this path does not necessarily lead to riches - it takes a little savvy and a lot of luck as well.

Interestingly, financial advisors/pundits are analized in exactly the same way - we only ever hear about the ones who were lucky, uh...I mean successful ;).

I'll turn 25 this year. I'm closing on a house at the end of next month. This house is slightly out of my financial reach but I'm stretching myself to buy it. Other houses in the same development have gone up 30K since November. All that said, BUY A HOUSE! Unless you don't keep up with your house you cannot lose money. Oh, when buying a house DO NOT go interest only, an 80/20 loan, or a variable interest rate.

Like everybody else has said, do something you like. My high school counselor said that you should think of what kind of job you'd do if you didn't need the money and that's the job you were supposed to do. Like a bunch of other guys here, I'm in the IT field but I work in the private sector (for now). If you're going into a trade, make sure you understand tax laws as they apply to contractors. That alone can save you thousands.

If you're trying to get some sort of career job, I'd suggest looking into government agencies for a couple of reasons: They're MORE than willing to pay for training, they'll take a less-experienced candidate because it's easier to make new habits than to break old ones, and it's a stable income source with plenty of benefits most still include a pension.

Save Save Save!

I sale my food stamps for cash...a mans gotta have a HT...food is optional

To get raise money for a HT, I slept with every good looking woman that would pay me for it. In other words... I don't have a dedicated home theater. :(

I will have one some day! Paris, call me!

?

I'm just gettng out of high school, and am wondering what most of you do to build these couple thousand dollar rooms. Basically, what is it that you do for a living? Post your yearly salary as well. (If you don't mind/if it doesnt offend you.)
A couple of thousand!!!!!!!!!:D I spent more than that on two speakers. Everybody has different taste and what they consider home theater. Mine is not near as nice as some on here but I have still spent over 30 grand getting it to be the way I want. I do have to say not your typical tv room.
As for a salary, let's say I have several different jobs other than my main one to pay for my toys and fun. All legal of course but I don't have the money like some on here do but I don't have any kids either so that helps. My wife wants me to have anything I like in my theater so I have NO wife acceptance factor but I know there are limits. I will post all my pics when I am totally done to show what it looks like. I think it is pretty nice but like I said nothing like a couple of the ones posted on here.

I tried the male giggilo route but after 2 months I only had 2 bucks. Need to come up with something else to generate cash!

Take out a large home equity loan and have a very understanding Wife! :)

I'll turn 25 this year. I'm closing on a house at the end of next month. This house is slightly out of my financial reach but I'm stretching myself to buy it. Other houses in the same development have gone up 30K since November. All that said, BUY A HOUSE! Unless you don't keep up with your house you cannot lose money. Oh, when buying a house DO NOT go interest only, an 80/20 loan, or a variable interest rate.

I'm 30 and just purchased my third house (with 20'x20'x9' dedicated HT space!). There is nothing wrong with an 80/20 loan. They serve a couple of purposes. First, mortgage interest is tax deductible, while PMI (Private Mortgage Insurance - required when you don't have 20% equity or down payment in the property) is not. If your 80/20 combined payments are less than a conventional 95-98% mortgage with PMI payments, then it's better on two fronts. Secondly, 80/20 loans allow younger professionals with good jobs but little savings to purchase houses. They also allow people with lots of money, but little of it in liquid form, to borrow money relatively cheaply. It also depends upon how the loans are structured. I currently have two fixed rate loans for my new house: the 80% loan at 7% interest for 30 years with no up front points (I have other mortgages, so this was pretty good), and the 20% loan at 8% interest at 15 years. Most of the 20% loans are home equity lines of credit or ARMs and are tied to the prime rate, and those aren't exactly good deals.

Interest only is also not a bad idea if you're expecting a property to appreciate significantly like we've seen over the last few years along the coasts, in Las Vegas, and Arizona, and you only want to make money off of the appreciation. It doesn't make sense for long term ownership, and is a bad idea considering the cool down in most markets where housing inventory is growing and houses are staying on the market longer. Adjustable rate mortgages are a horrible idea right now unless you happen to luck out and refinance in a few years. But again, they work best in areas where the property is going to appreciate rapidly.

Like everybody else has said, do something you like. My high school counselor said that you should think of what kind of job you'd do if you didn't need the money and that's the job you were supposed to do. Like a bunch of other guys here, I'm in the IT field but I work in the private sector (for now). If you're going into a trade, make sure you understand tax laws as they apply to contractors. That alone can save you thousands.

I personally like getting paid. I also enjoy reading sci-fi, but no one wants to pay you money to read it, though I've made a couple grand tech editing technology books. There is a certain appeal to enjoying what you work, but there's also some hapiness in not being flat broke. Money doesn't buy happiness, but lack of money leads to more addictions, suicides, broken marriages, estranged relationships and all sorts of other heartaches than you would believe.

If you're trying to get some sort of career job, I'd suggest looking into government agencies for a couple of reasons: They're MORE than willing to pay for training, they'll take a less-experienced candidate because it's easier to make new habits than to break old ones, and it's a stable income source with plenty of benefits most still include a pension.

Government agencies, both at the state and federal level, have pay scales far below the public sector. That's the tradeoff for all that perceived job safety and benefits. It's much better to provide a product or service to the government, as that's where the real money is in dealing with them.

Save Save Save!

That, I agree with.

Joseph

The advice in this thread is golden. I've decided to go back to college to get my degree in electrical engineering. :D

This advice is all golden.
I am 23 and recently graduated from college in Iowa. The day after I graduated I packed up all my things and moved to Colorado with my fiancee. We are both teachers, so I know what its like to not have endless amounts of disposable income. Had it not been for my fiancee to help pay the bills I couldnt have done it.
Some things i have learned (and are probably repeats)
1. Go to college/learn a trade in something you think you would enjoy dont do it for the money.
2. You dont have to blow your money on a new car just because you can. I really wanted a nice new car when i graduated and could probably afford it but i chose to buy a used car with 40k miles for around 5k. Payments are next to nothing insurance and payments combined are barely over 200$
3. If you dont see yourself getting married find roommates. They will save you tons of money
4. Open a savings acount that you cant withdraw from very easily. I pay all my bills at the beginning of the month and then put in what ever amount I can in savings and use whats left to cover day to day bills. If there is an emergency one month I will be ready.
5. I decided I really wanted a house, and if I waited another year I might not be able to afford it unless the realestate market boom slowed a bit. Through college I managed my credit cards very well and was luky to have a great credit score, my fiancee as well. Coming from Iowa where realestate is cheap ,example my parents 4 bedroom home was 60k, I wasnt sure what i was getting myself into, but my fiancee and I are getting ready to move into the home we just built, and has a basement ready for a dedicated ht. (eventualy)
When its all said and done do what you love make smart decisions and dont live beyond your means.

The advice in this thread is golden. I've decided to go back to college to get my degree in electrical engineering. :D

EE is a great career. You will be a work horse in most instances. Pick your first job wisely. GPA is the key to getting the high paying jobs right out of college. There are cutoffs for most companies. Personally I wish I would've held out for a consumer electronics job. I'm an EE in the connector field now. It really is interesting, but there is not a lot of side jobs for a guy who knows electromagnetics. I started in frequency control and small signal design. I have to say that was fun. As far as the money factor you will have to switch jobs a few times to get your $$'s up. I just completed my 6th year of work, my salary has doubled. I am at my 3rd company in the same amount of time. I found a good one now and will most likely stay. They will pay for my masters, either and MBA or an MSEE. I still haven't decided. There are big bucks in management, but ya loose the fun technical stuff. Good luk to you regardless.

There are many great suggestions here. I read several of the posts completely, but just scanned most of them.

Two great books to read: The Millionaire Next door and Rich Dad, Poor Dad. You'll see a lot of the advice you've read here echoed in those books.

I also agree with those that said going to a 4-year university right out of high school is not the best option, especially when you look at the cost. I also place great value in a state-funded education, versus the lower return on investment you get going to a private college.

I went to a 4-year university (North Carolina State) right out of college. My three best friends from high school all went to the local community college the first two years, and then transferred to state-funded colleges for their last two years. The end state... we all got bachelors degrees that all carried the same weight. Two of us went on to be Army officers, one an Air Force officer, and the fourth is now faculty at his university.

Now, none of us have high-paying jobs, and probably make about the same salaries. I still keep in touch with them, and judging by their comments, have probably accumulated more wealth then them. The secret to this is to live modestly. My family spends only about 1/3 of our after tax income and saves the rest. We live rather comfortably and never have to live week-to-week. We have been debt free for 6-years, and are well on out way to being able to retire and build our dream house when we're 55.


My wife and I both drive modest cars that we bought used (1-3 years old at time of purchase). We don't waste money on junk, and are willing to pay a premium for quality merchandise that we are absolutely certain we will use and enjoy.

Being in the military, you pretty much know what everyone around you makes based on their rank. It always upsets me when I see soldiers who are very junior to me driving vehicles that cost 2-3x what I paid for mine, and knowing that they are probably living paycheck-to-paycheck because of it.

If you want to build an HT, build it when you can afford it.

Don't try to keep up with the Joneses, and in 20 years, the Joneses will be trying to catch up to you!

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned at all here, and a bit surprised by that, was the path that I chose after High School.

It might be a bit out of favor at the moment given the current world situation, but I did 6 years in the military after High School. This gave me money for school, access to GI Bill, and since a year of it was spent in service in the middle east, it gave me Veteran status and I was able to purchase my house using a VA loan.

If I were to do it over again I might choose a different branch of service (nothing wrong with the Army but it might be fun to try something new). Heck someday when my kids are old enough I might suggest they try out the Coast Guard for a few years.

I know that when I was 18, I didn't have any clue what I wanted to do. Going straight off to college would have resulted in a bunch of student loans and a degree that might have been useless. Spending some years out traveling the world and saving money gave me a chance to mature. When I did graduate from college I had no loans to pay back, and thats a good way to start off.

In fact, aside from home loans I would suggest staying away from them altogether. If you can do it, dont even own a credit card. There is a saying that goes something like this:

Those who understand interest - earn it. Those who don't understand interest - pay it.

nebrunner, great advice!

Zeek here is a different way to go, find a good women who can help you build your theater one step at a time. Here is my story. Got divorced with Kids found a great women who helped me pay my crdeit cards from the first Marriage and then helped me build my DD's lounge. I started with a reciever and 2 speakers and now in five years I have a 7.1 system and will be upgrading in the next year plus a wet Bar and a great Bourbon Collection. Mary doesnt even come the the Lounge very often. Thats my advice just to build it slow and upgrade when you can afford it,plus find a women who has money.

____________________________________________________________ _____________

ALL THE WORLDS A STAGE AND WE MEERLY PLAY WITH OUR HT TOYS.

My advice (with all due respect to the poster's above) would be to forget about costs of education and look at the big picture. Education is cheap, even if you have no money:

1. If you are reasonably intelligent, become a professional of some sort (doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.). Thereby you have a skill where you can always find work and typically be your own boss.

2. It may require schooling from 5-10 years.

3. When I hear people complain about cost, I always think why? It is a short sighted complaint. School is an investment. One that pays big over your life time. The Gov't is set up to either give or loan you whatever it takes. I paid for 6 entire years of college and living expenses with Student Loans. Smartest money ever borrowed! Twelve years later, I am 3 years away from paying them off (2% interest). Now, if I were to add my income up over the last 15 years, I have increased my investment by over 100X and I still have 20 more years of earning ahead of me from that original education investment (God willing)..

4. So what do I have? A skill that if able, I can use for my entire working life. Education and grad school is the best bang for the buck. You too can make a 6 figure income well before your mid thirties if you commit, work hard, pick a lucrative profession and look past the 'cost' of your education.

5. Loans for school are essentially 'free money' as the interest rate is so low. Remember, you don't pay back the loans until after you have received your degree (they are deferred by law as long as you are continually pursuing your degree).

6. Now mind you, I wouldn't recommend loaning out to the gills for a profession that is a low income one, or you will be swimming in debt.

7. I can tell you that it sucked when I was 29, out of school and broke (with mucho loan debt). Most of my friends already owned homes, had a few bucks in their pockets and were traveling and starting families. However, 8 years later when we built our dream house (including a no holds barred theater), the pain of being a 29 year old full time student was long gone.

7. To reiterate, education is cheap relative to the potential gains in income over a life time.

What a great thread. I'd like to chime in with my quick 2 cents!

- Education is important. I don't want to start a private vs state college debate, but buy as much education as you can afford. If you can go Ivy or tier 1, go!! Damn the costs. There are employers who won't even look at your resume unless you come from one of those schools (for top jobs) and it's big plus for post-grad schooling (law, MBA, medical, PHD).

- I also agree get a job/start company doing what you like. I liked video games as a kid and I have been in the biz of making games for most of my adult career. It pays very well and i love going work every day.

- Reading Rich Dad poor dad and millionaire next door for me was good and bad. I felt bad when I realized that I was making some errors, but I had time to correct them. It was tough medicine, but I am much better for it now. read at your own risk :)

What great advice from some very successful people.

I agree with purchasing a home. I am 29 and purchased my first home at 22. Stayed there for 18 months and made over 40k after realtor fees. My second house I stayed in for 4 years and made 70k after realtor fees. With some hard earned savings thrown into the mix and low interest rates my wife and I were able to afford a 500k home and kept our mortgage payments in line with some of our friends in 200k homes. My buddies all moved to the city after school to meet girls and spent tons of money. I stayed around home and lived paycheck to paycheck to afford my $1300 a month mortage (we laugh at that number now). Now they are buying their first 1000 sq ft duplex and my wife and I live in a 4000 sq ft home we designed from the ground up. It makes a ton of sense to buy young and turn the home when the price is right. The other issue is location. Find an up and coming place to build. My current home would cost well over a million dollars in a suburb closer to Chicago, but is a fraction of the cost 40 miles west. Location is everything.

The second thing no one has mentioned is nothing is more important than your credit. My parents who didn't have much pounded this into my brain ever since I can remember. You would be amazed how people can get the shaft financially with poor credit. Talk to your bank and have them run a credit report. Work to get the negative items off your report and watch interest rates fall through the floor. That was the best advice my parents ever gave me, besides my mom making me take a typing class of course.

There is some great advice above from some very smart people. The last bit of info I can give you is don't be afraid to change. Most people in the world hate change and I learned the "easy" way change is good. I got lucky running an ecommerce company during the dot com boom. Made some dough and moved on because the owner was a tool. My next job was the same type of ecommerce thing and was ok, but I found another gig. Long story short I became successful because I got lucky. I came up with an idea having lunch with a customer at the company I work for now. I ran the IT department and wasn't supposed to even be at the meeting which was about wood dowel pins. 3 golf equipment patents later things are much easier because I wasn't afraid to change, innovate or think outside the box.

What ever you do be passionate about it. I couldn't deal with going to a job I didn't love every day.

Just a little west of you Crane. Building a house in Maple Park. Sound like you got a great place. Mine's not custom, but the next will be :)

I feel no matter what level you get to with your home theater you'll will always want to upgrade. Trust me.

Zeek:

If you're interested in electricity, do it, learn the trade and when the time is right, go out on your own if that is what you want to do. Read "The Millionaire Next Door" and "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". Do not buy anything except a house and a car that you cannot afford to pay cash for. Invest at least 10% of your income from the first moment that you can and ratchet it up to where it is slightly uncomfortable until you can see independence on the horizon and beyond. Do not get caught up in the trap of following your friends(probably more like acquaintances), neighbors in having to have all the toys and fancy cars, like so many Californians do. If you were to see most of their balance sheets, their net worth would probably surprise you, regardless of their income. Bottom line is, whether or not you make tons of money, you can build your way to prosperity if you live within your means, invest, follow your own good sense and work hard at something that will fill an economic need and that is something that you like to do. Really pay attention to "Don't get caught up in the trap of following others in having to have the toys now". All in good time. At some point in time, and it will seem like "all of a sudden", critical mass will have happened, and you will be able to lighten up some and start enjoying the fruits of your labors. Take heed in the advice you are given here, most of it is pretty good. :)

Harold

All this advice is great but don't forget to enjoy yourself as much as you feel you want to. You never know how long you will live, or what kinds of things will happen to you before you can retire. If you retire with a lot of money but can't enjoy any of that what good is that if you never enjoyed yourself before that point. Travel when you are young. Buy some things you want to buy. Enjoy yourself but do it within your means.
If you use a credit card only buy as much as you can pay off each month. Any extra cash you have put towards your house payment and your savings. Just remember to live life and not wait until you are too old to enjoy what you have worked so hard to get, but don't go overboard.

I was intent on saving, saving, saving for retirement when my dad made the comment to me that there's nothing wrong with enjoying life a bit as well. In other words, I've read quite a bit from people in these threads that say they saved for 20 years and now finally are enjoying the fruits of their labor. (Don't get me wrong, I still save for retirement, but not to as extreme of an extent)

I'd much rather work hard for a longer period of time and enjoy things earlier. Especially while I'm young enough to enjoy them. Something like a ski boat is tough to enjoy when you have bad knees or a bad back in your mid-40s, etc. I suppose you can watch your kids enjoy it, but there's a limit to that enjoyment. I'd also rather have a modest HT now and a very nice HT later, than nothing now and a no-holds barred theater later.

Of course I haven't mentioned yet that I also wouldn't finance very much of it, and if I did, it'd purely be via a home equity loan, and a smaller one at that. I'll never end up charging the CC without the ability to pay back unless I get in a situation like JohnQ. (Stuff happens)

Anyway, a bit about me:

Enlisted in the National Guard senior year of high school (kind of a family tradition), went to training in lieu of my first year of college. Went to a private college, got an ROTC scholarship, and ended up with zero loans on a $100K 4-year degree in Computer Science. Continued in the ARNG part time, which is fun, gives me leadership experience, and adds a little more $$ on a monthly basis.

As for my civilian job, I worked at a large three letter company that ends in "Machines" for 5 years, learned a lot about the corporate world and why I didn't want to be a drone, and joined a small company. My pay nearly doubled and I essentially have my dream job now (because I actually like what I'm doing as well).

My wife and I bought our house 4 years ago and completely gutted it top to bottom. Added a kitchen and laundry room downstairs, and rented it out. By the end of the month, we'll be moving out of the upstairs and renting that out as well, and will be with my parents' temporarily until we buy another house, and we'll continue renting our first.

So my accumulation of wealth and the ability to do buy what I need and a bit of what I want is the combination of the following:

- Great education in a well-paying field in something that I love
- Military service that gives me great experience and "free" college
- Patience to find a great job that I love
- Three side businesses (at the moment) for supplemental income
- Bought a house early, fixed it up, and continue to do so
- We buy 3-4 year old vehicles, and I fix/improve them myself
- I don't drink, smoke, and we go out to dinner about twice a month

Like Tim I joined the National Guard right of of high school. Then spent eight years in the Air Force on active duty. I went to school part time working on my degree. My experience and training landed me a good job with a major delivery company that also has an airline division. I now work in the Government Regulator Affairs department. I continue to serve in the guard and am now working on my graduate degree. My theater budget comes from my monthly guard checks and the money I get back from selling my used graduate school books. It takes longer, but just like my education, the theater will be paid for when it's done.

Mike

Maybe my route was a little different.

Yes, I went to college and got my degree in accounting. I took out student loans to pay for a lot of my education.

After college, I made some mistakes like buying a car that I really didn’t need at the time, especially after I had to start paying back my student loans. My car payment was about the same as my apartment rent (bad move). I also had CC debt from college.

It’s then that I started to realize that I was doing the wrong things as I was only investing a small percentage of my salary in my 401(k). The only upside to that was that my company had an EXCELLENT ESOP (employee stock ownership plan) that more than made up for my lack of investing. And when the company was sold, it made it even better! After the large run-up, I borrowed from my 401(k) to pay off debt and started investing more wisely.

Now, we’m essentially debt-free except for our house and one of our cars and we have sizable 401(k) and savings balances. Also, it doesn’t hurt to have your company move you around the country, you make money on your house sales and not have to pay realtor fees. :) That allowed us to put down bigger and bigger down payments on each house and build up more equity.

We also make more in combined salary than about 95% of the households in the country, which doesn’t hurt. We’re both in Finance for major corporations.

So that’s what allows me to spend $30K on a theater and it not be a big hardship or headache from the wife.

This is a good thread! It has been fun to read though the differences in people's career decisions. I am 23, and let me tell you that Education is the most important thing you can do for yourself hands down. Let me make that more clear ...

Education is the most important thing you can do to advance yourself financially. Or should i say, your "Financial Education".

If your want to go to school to become an electrical engineer, i think that is great! Just remember to educate yourself financially. Take that "savings" and invest it wesley. If you know how to turn 1 dollar into 2, then you will be wealthy. Take the time to learn about Real estate, Stocks, Bonds, Currency, ect ect.

I made about 52,000 last year at my "job" and 100,000 more (after taxes) by investing that money, you do the math. (152,000 total) Combine that with my wifes income, and we are doing alright for a couple of newlywed 23 year olds no classic education.

The key was to understand money, and have it do the work.

I agree with the other people on his forum that said read "Rich Dad, Poor dad". When i read this book 2 years ago, it opened my eyes, and my wallet.

Mike

This is a good thread! It has been fun to read though the differences in people's career decisions. I am 23, and let me tell you that Education is the most important thing you can do for yourself hands down. Let me make that more clear ...

Education is the most important thing you can do to advance yourself financially. Or should i say, your "Financial Education".

If your want to go to school to become an electrical engineer, i think that is great! Just remember to educate yourself financially. Take that "savings" and invest it wesley. If you know how to turn 1 dollar into 2, then you will be wealthy. Take the time to learn about Real estate, Stocks, Bonds, Currency, ect ect.

I made about 52,000 last year at my "job" and 100,000 more (after taxes) by investing that money, you do the math. (152,000 total) Combine that with my wifes income, and we are doing alright for a couple of newlywed 23 year olds no classic education.

The key was to understand money, and have it do the work.

I agree with the other people on his forum that said read "Rich Dad, Poor dad". When i read this book 2 years ago, it opened my eyes, and my wallet.

Mike

Now imagine getting that formal education and becoming a doctor / lawyer / etc and adding a '0' to your yearly income.....and consequently another '0' to the $152,000.....then you have a different financial world.!!

I'm not married so I have housemates. I offset the rental income by improving my house. Don't ask me about how my taxes are stuctured because I have them done by an accountant...

Check this out...is this good?

I'm in a five year apprentice program with the IBEW...$1600 a month. I'm putting a thousand of that away ach month...so at the end of five years, I'll have sixty thousand dollars, to put down on a house or something. I really, really want to live at the beach. It's what I've always wanted to do. Live at the beach..surf before I got to work. Contractors...if I started contracting, could I eventually end up owning my own business? How would I go about doing that? Electrical work will always be needed... A buddy of mine told me he is making about 4,000 dollars every two weeks just doing house electrical jobs.

HOwever houses on the beach are millions. 6% down on a million dollar house..and I plan on building very good credit within that time. I wonder how much the payment would be?

Is building a house cheaper (with a room for a HT), should I use that sixty thousand along with a loan to build my house...on the beach..or to buy land?


?

Check this out...is this good?

I'm in a five year apprentice program with the IBEW...$1600 a month. I'm putting a thousand of that away ach month...so at the end of five years, I'll have sixty thousand dollars, to put down on a house or something. I really, really want to live at the beach. It's what I've always wanted to do. Live at the beach..surf before I got to work. Contractors...if I started contracting, could I eventually end up owning my own business? How would I go about doing that? Electrical work will always be needed... A buddy of mine told me he is making about 4,000 dollars every two weeks just doing house electrical jobs.

HOwever houses on the beach are millions. 6% down on a million dollar house..and I plan on building very good credit within that time. I wonder how much the payment would be?

Is building a house cheaper (with a room for a HT), should I use that sixty thousand along with a loan to build my house...on the beach..or to buy land?


?

Zeek, you have a lot to learn buddy. I'm not sure how old you are, but my advice to you is take that $60,000 and use it for college. In fact, consider not even saving that money for that long - that will delay 5 years of starting your education. Get student loans to pay for whatever funds your part time job can't cover and you'll be on your way to making more than 4,000 dollars every two weeks, with the right degree. Even if you only make $50,000 per year in a professional career, you've earned a Bachelor's degree and most likely a very stable job.

I think you really need to ask yourself some very serious questions. Will you want to be doing blue collar construction work the rest of your life? What happens when you are 50 or 60 years old and you are unable to do that physical work?

As for building your credit, the only way you can build your credit is to get more credit. Buying an inexpensive car with a loan is a good start - an installment tradeline helps your credit score. A revolving credit card tradeline on your credit report can hurt or help your credit score, so be careful with credit cards. You may want to start out with a credit card to begin practicing responsible borrowing. The general rule for practicing good credit card usage is "if you can't pay off the balance in full by the end of the month, you should reduce the use of the credit card."

Where on the beach would you like to live? Those are nice dreams, but until you make $8,000 per month AFTER TAXES, you should probably be looking more inland for a house.

I agree with the above post....MOSTLY, except for the apparent attitude that is. Zeek is young and in my opinion is doing far more than most his age would just by posting his question and seemingly forming a plan for his future. Most kids his age just stumble through life until a decent job hits them in the face and they stay there forever or at least until they realize there are better opportunities available. Some never make this discovery at all! Before everyone gets upset that I said that...I did say most and not all...Zeek seems to be a good example of the small percentage that wont end up like that.

There has been alot of good advice in this thread and I think its a shame more his age dont ask these questions....specifically to total strangers. If you want (somewhat) unbiased advice, ask a stranger. However, take into consideration your lack of personal knowledge about the source of the advice. Look at it as generalized advice and probably not specifically geared towards you or your situation.

If you want to be an electrician then be an electrician! The IBEW is a good program that is nationwide. I have a few freinds that are electricians that went that route and the are very happy. They have a skilled trade and an education in a field that will never go away and there is almost always a need for new electricians. As far as being "50 or 60 and doing blue collar constuction work" ...if you work hard, learn your trade and set goals there is no reason that by that age (50 or 60, probably younger truth be told) you couldnt be at least a project manager or higher and you wouldnt be hammering the nail so to speek. One of my friends is 36 and is a project manager, he doesnt spend his day doing manual labor. He spends it overseeing the projects he is in charge of...workers, materials, deadlines, cost analysis, quality control etc etc. Thats really not that different from a "white collar" worker riding a desk for a living. Oh yeah did I mention he made well over 100k last year and took 2 months off for vacations. My point is you can be successful in many different avenues its all in how you approach life and your work ethic. Invest your money smartly, dont live above your means and always strive for self improvement.

I personally never went the college route and I do regret that. If I were able to "do it over" I would have certainly went to school...if for no other reason than "knowledge is power". Having said that I am certainly not ashamed of the route I did take and I would venture to say that I am far ahead of most people my age finanacially. However my current job isnt what most people would ever consider doing....I like it and it pays quite well. I was in the military for almost 15 years and my experience there led me to my current position. I am a security contractor in Iraq and make just under 160k a year on the average. Sometimes more sometimes less, depending on how much I work. I spend about 9 months working outside of the US and 3 months vacation a year at home. Like I said, most people wouldnt do it as it is dangerous and keeps you away from your family a great deal. I however have made the best of it, saved money, invested money wisely, and recently bought a 2 year old home thats 4950sq ft (my second home) with an unfinnished 1500 sq ft basement to build my theater in. I certainly wouldnt advise you to go this route as it isnt for most people and rightfully so. I only give you those details of my life to try to emphasize to you that you dont HAVE to go to college to make a good life for yourself. I will say that college is a great tool that you can use to better yourself as an individual and of course it tends to lead to better paying jobs if you choose your carreer path wisely and apply yourself.

BTW Zeek as I am sure you know...that $1600 a month is only the starting pay and as you progress through that program it increases substantially. I say if you think you will like being an electrician then go for it. There is nothing wrong with being a "blue collar worker"!

Robert

Zeek,
I agree with the above recommendations to take out student loans and get an education, but realize you are "delaying gratification". Most people your age have trouble with this concept. Most want fame and riches right away. Unfortunately that is not how it works.

My story: 4 year college, 3 painful years of trying to get into medical school (research, applications, volunteering, etc), 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency. When a lot of my friends were out partying, I was studying. When I finally was out in the "real world," I owed over $200K in student loans (wow, I know). However, those loans are consolidated and divided over 30 years (3% interest rate). Comes to about $1000 a month. Bottom line, when all is said and done, the student loan payments don't even phase me. I now have a better lifestyle than all the friends who took "easier" routes. In fact many of them (in their 30's and with families) are now going back to school for graduate educations.

Bottom line: Take the loans, get your education in a field you like (money will not make up for a miserable job, no matter how much money). You will increase your earning potential and get that nice home theater. But it will take a while. Delay gratification, young man.

Also, I still believe that the 4 years of college were the most fun in my life...Hell, I might take out some loans and do it again!

Its really easy.. Dont have any kids. Then you can buy anything you want

Zeek-

This is an interesting thread and I appreciate you sharing. I agree there's no shame in a "blue collar" job, and I also agree you have more options with a minimum of a 4-yr degree. When I was in high school I had 2.5 yrs of wood shop and great grades, including calculus. Because of my age I considered getting an AA and moving into cabinetry. As it happens*, I went to a full university and got an engineering degree. Sometimes your age and lack of guidance (I had to figure a lot of this stuff on my own, despite being a "great" student) restricts you to your comfort zone. Step out of it, even if you move away from friends and family.

Btw, I am still using my HT speakers from 11 yrs ago. I also have the same 32" TV in the family room (i.e. no big screen until I got my projector for the HT).

One more thing. Unless there is a huge market for whatever you do (i.e. high-tech in the Bay Area), move out of CA. The $60K you save will be 20% down on a 300K home. There are lots of places outside of CA that are great to live in where $300K will get you a lot of home. (I grew up in the Bay Area... I know).

*In the end, I took a tour of one of the colleges I was accepted into. There was a really cute and flirtatous girl on the tour with me... I signed the papers that day.

good post. similar story here, having to hear about my friends brag about their 70-100k salaries while i was studying for 12 years (friendly bragging). They would take nice vacations....this year (year 1 out of "school") I should pay between 70-100k in taxes.....nice to be on the other side.



Zeek,
I agree with the above recommendations to take out student loans and get an education, but realize you are "delaying gratification". Most people your age have trouble with this concept. Most want fame and riches right away. Unfortunately that is not how it works.

My story: 4 year college, 3 painful years of trying to get into medical school (research, applications, volunteering, etc), 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency. When a lot of my friends were out partying, I was studying. When I finally was out in the "real world," I owed over $200K in student loans (wow, I know). However, those loans are consolidated and divided over 30 years (3% interest rate). Comes to about $1000 a month. Bottom line, when all is said and done, the student loan payments don't even phase me. I now have a better lifestyle than all the friends who took "easier" routes. In fact many of them (in their 30's and with families) are now going back to school for graduate educations.

Bottom line: Take the loans, get your education in a field you like (money will not make up for a miserable job, no matter how much money). You will increase your earning potential and get that nice home theater. But it will take a while. Delay gratification, young man.

Also, I still believe that the 4 years of college were the most fun in my life...Hell, I might take out some loans and do it again!

I'm 40, a pathologist and I'm now just able to start working on a HT. I've always wanted one and now I'm finally able to half way afford it.

I am still waiting on a HT room. I am just starting to save for the build of the room. I think I may do it in phases as I can't do a buildout all at once.

Also as far as saving money...you are young don't put yourself into debt. Bring your lunch to work, don't go out drinking with the buddies. Ask for gift cards/ceritificates for birthdays/Christmas from your family to websites(*******/Outlaw audio, etc.) that carry your HT gear.

Good luck

ohh, and i think its been mentioned, but never forget the law of compounding interest.

No matter how little you can afford to tax-defer and save for retirement right now, it will be worth a lot more in 40 years.

Here's a couple of examples...i will base them on 30 years.

Save 100 per month for 30 years at 5% annual growth:
Ending balance is 120,000 dollars. (instead of the no growth 36,000)

If you can put a little more risk in the market and real-estate and get 7.5% per year averaged over 30 years, you will end up with 185,000.

If you just buy us bonds or bank CD's (3%), you still end up with 90k (2.5 times the no interest value!).


Of course, you should try to put 25% of your pre-tax into retirement. If you could manage 1000 a month, you can multiply all those above figures by 10. (and remember, in 30 years, at 1000 per month, at 5%, that 1.2 million will provide you with 60 thousand of either income or growth PER YEAR until you die.

Following this very oversimplified plan you would never have to worry about inflation, and following a plan that is tax/inflation taylored set up by a pro, you can do so much more (junk bonds, foreign markets/currency, HSA's and other legal shelters).....

Even if you only make $50,000 per year in a professional career, you've earned a Bachelor's degree and most likely a very stable job.

As globalization continues apace, more and more "professional" jobs are going to be outsourced to places like India and China.

Trades, such as electrical work, are things that can't easily be outsourced and, arguably, could lead to much more stable employment opportunities.

In this day and age, unless someone can be a top-tier student at a top-tier school, I think trades make a lot more sense.

Don't know if the O.P. is still reading this thread, but I'll go ahead and answer the question anyway. We can afford to build our theater because we carry no debt except a mortgage. We don't use credit cards, we have no student loans, we drive paid for used cars, and most importantly we live on less than we make. You'd be surprised at how far a paycheck will go when it's not all going to the banks and credit card companies. We also live on a fairly strict budget. We also invest heavily in retirement, so any and all extra money we make every month that isn't going to the mortage and living expenses is ours to do with as we please. Life's good.

I don't understand the "credit cards are evil" philosophy... We use our credit card for everything we possibly can, get cash back every month for doing so, and just pay it off right away. It's also incredibly easy to track all of your spending by downloading your statement electronically into financial management software.

We also get vehicle loans, sometime home equity loans, because we can make plenty more in mutual funds than the interest rate of the loans. Similar to not paying off your mortgage since it's tax free interest (if you itemize your deductions; we're always plenty more than the standard deduction).

I don't think credit cards are inherently evil. It's just that I can do anything a credit card can do with my debit card and I don't owe anyone a dime in the process.
The value of vehicles tends to drop like a rock, so driving a paid for used car that is a few years old means that it has already taken most of its hit by the time you pay cash for it and when you sell it, you don't take that big of a hit compared to purchasing it new and selling it when it is a few years old.
If you get a home equity loan at say 6% to make 12% in mutual funds, you've netted 6%. Why not just invest what you would pay monthly on the home equity loan and keep all 12%, plus still have the equity in your home?
I don't understand keeping debt to avoid sending Uncle Sam a check. If you pay 10k over a one year period in mortgage interest, you get to write off that 10k, which if you didn't write it off and were taxed at say 30% would cause you to have to pay Uncle Sam an extra 3k. So didn't you just spend 10k to keep from spending 3k?
I may be wrong on some of this, but it seems like common sense to me, and mainly we try to stay as close to debt free as is possible (mortgage) because we sleep a lot better at night.

I'm not owing anyone in the process of using my credit card. In fact, someone (the CC company) is paying me (cash back), whereas using a debit card wouldn't give me anything back.

Regarding vehicles, though we use loans on them (because the interest rates we can get them is low, as I mentioned), we buy used as well. Typically three years old or so, for a couple of reasons. The main one is that as you said, their value drops the most initially, so I don't want to be the one losing that value, only benefiting from it. A second reason is because I can fix most things with older cars, so the maintenance costs are quite low and thus a new car warranty isn't worth as much to me.

Finally, regarding keeping debt, it all has to do with what you can do with your money. You can either pay cash for something and not have the use of that cash anymore (e.g. $10K for a used car), or you can keep that cash, take a loan on the vehicle (say 6%), and use the cash that you kept and get interest on it (obviously it would need to be more than the vehicle, as well as cover capital gains taxes as necessary). Put another way, you're borrowing money to make money on it.

As far as the taxes/Uncle Sam part of it, that's just a bonus if the interest is tax free, and means that you're making even more money in interest over what you're paying in interest. Essentially, your interest rate is whatever your tax bracket is lower (say, 33%, so instead of a 6% interest rate, you have a 4% interest rate). This is slightly oversimplified, but holds true in general.

The only benefit to paying it all off, assuming you can make as much in interest somewhere else as you are paying in interest...perhaps a big "if", is the piece of mind knowing you don't have that "debt". I put "debt" in quotations because since you're using the cash in a mutual fund (or wherever), you technically could pay off that debt at any time. Granted, the piece of mind can be no small thing, especially for those that have struggled with debt in the past.

I hope that makes more sense.. ?

Tim - I am with you on the CC's. I rack up the rewards. My card from Fidelity (run by MBNA pays 1.5% of all purchases quarterly to my brokerage account (in $50+ increments). It will pay 2% if I change to the one that pays to a 529 plan for my daughter's education.

The one cautionary point on CC's is studies show that we have a lower aversion to spending $$$ if it goes on a card (even if paid off monthly) than if we physically fork out the cash. Some studies (which I have some skepticism towards) say we'll pay 18% more if we charge it than if we used cash. (e.g. its harder to part with $50 cash than it is to charge it). But that is just understanding yourself and your level of discipline. Me, I charge everything over $10 if I can.

On interest, bear in mind that mortage/equity interest is deductible - but interest/dividend/gains are taxable (although perhaps at a lower rate for the latter two).

I have no comment on college for trades skills. Just have skills. And beachfront is overpriced. Just live near it, if that's your passion.

I charge it even if it's under $10. I love to get airline miles. We have now had two free airline tickets to the Caribbean with each valued at over $900 and still have more to use.
We did use the GM card when we were in the line for a new car. When it's plan was really good several years ago we had earned nearly 5k and got to use that on our new car purchase. We used a 2.5k several years later for another new car.
I believe CCs are the only way to go for online transactions as you are not liable for anything if someone gets your card somehow. I feel much safer using credit cards.
We have had several instances where someone has tried to not come through on the deal and we were not held responsible for it.
We pay ours off every month. We have done this now for over 25 years. Never have we acrued any interest. I think you should not use a card if you are going to do that. You then are money behind and that is where I draw the line. At this moment in our lives we don't owe any interest to anyone.

...As far as the taxes/Uncle Sam part of it, that's just a bonus if the interest is tax free, and means that you're making even more money in interest over what you're paying in interest. Essentially, your interest rate is whatever your tax bracket is lower (say, 33%, so instead of a 6% interest rate, you have a 4% interest rate). This is slightly oversimplified, but holds true in general.

...

This is actually a bit of a fallacy perpetuated by bankers who want you to take on more home equity debt :). While it is defintely a better situation than if the interest payments weren't deductible, the math is usually a wash since any money you earn with the borrowed money is also subject to income tax. Where it could make a difference is if you are lucky enough to get long term capital gains on the borrowed money which makes your savings the difference between your marginal tax bracket and the LTCG rate. If you don't get all LTCG with it then it is a wash - but you took a fair amount of risk (by having the borrowed money in the market in something with a higher return than your interest) in the process.

Remember, banks make lots of money by loaning you that money on your house. Do you think they would do that if there were a safer, easier way to make more...?

I have done this calculation over and over and over and, given the current market environment, I chose to pay for my house.

I still think the interest adds up overall, for two reasons. First, even though the tax is a wash, that's fine because 8% is still more than 4% (or whatever figures you want to use). Secondly, you can wipe out those LTCG taxes completely if you end up with a loss in some other investment and want to sell. Best case you don't have to do this, and you just end up with whatever additional percentage you're making. I agree that it's somewhat of a hassle dealing with it, and is not for everyone, but if you can accept risk (i.e. it will be a while before you will need to cash in), it's a sound plan, IMO.

Banks can't accept nearly the amount of risk that an individual can, and is why they don't dump millions into mutual funds. But if you can find the right stocks and funds (big if, of course), then it can be worth it.

In summary, I absolutely agree that it's not for everyone, and I don't even follow this plan all of the time. Only occasionally; I'm just try to defend its financial soundness, for the right person.

I have a few tips being a college student. I have a reasonable home theater system, but nothing real high end.

1. Find a job that is within biking distance so you don't have to buy a car.

2. Ditch the girlfriend

3. Hit up ebay.

TP

Finally, regarding keeping debt, it all has to do with what you can do with your money. You can either pay cash for something and not have the use of that cash anymore (e.g. $10K for a used car), or you can keep that cash, take a loan on the vehicle (say 6%), and use the cash that you kept and get interest on it (obviously it would need to be more than the vehicle, as well as cover capital gains taxes as necessary). Put another way, you're borrowing money to make money on it.

I know you are just trying to give an idea, but this is really over-simplified. There are bunch of other things you need to consider. It is important to remember the concept of cash-flow verusus equity. Any debt will eat into your cash flow. Any exposure to your cash flow can lead to all the bad things associated with missing a payment on down (i.e. reposession, bankruptcy). The other thing is you need to match an investment with your timeline. The stock market is a long-term (>20yrs) investment vehicle.

The car is a good and bad example. If you borrow instead of paying cash for a car and then put the money in the market, at the end of 3 or 5 yrs (for example) you will have an asset worth 30% (example) less than what you paid for it, a loan that cost you 8%, and the net of your investment. The market has a huge, historical standard deviation over the short term. At the end of 3 yrs there is a good chance your stocks will be at a loss (and if in a fund, fees will have been taken out). On the other hand, if you need a car, which often times gets you to work to make money, borrowing within your means is a way to get a little more. Just watch your cash flow exposure.

Btw, the other trick with interest on a home loan is that it helps you beat the standard deduction. By doing so you can itemize and get an even bigger tax break. I am not sure what the average income is on a tax return, but I would imagine most people live in the 15-20% marginal tax bracket.

I still think the interest adds up overall, for two reasons. First, even though the tax is a wash, that's fine because 8% is still more than 4% (or whatever figures you want to use). Secondly, you can wipe out those LTCG taxes completely if you end up with a loss in some other investment and want to sell. Best case you don't have to do this, and you just end up with whatever additional percentage you're making. I agree that it's somewhat of a hassle dealing with it, and is not for everyone, but if you can accept risk (i.e. it will be a while before you will need to cash in), it's a sound plan, IMO.

Banks can't accept nearly the amount of risk that an individual can, and is why they don't dump millions into mutual funds. But if you can find the right stocks and funds (big if, of course), then it can be worth it.

In summary, I absolutely agree that it's not for everyone, and I don't even follow this plan all of the time. Only occasionally; I'm just try to defend its financial soundness, for the right person.

All the "ifs" in your description are what I'm talking about. They are the risk. And, while the reward can definitely be there in the market, you must be aware of the risk. Maybe you are and have weighed them appropriately, but I want anyone reading this to realize they cannot be ignored.

I think most of us grew up in the great bull market of 1981-2000 and, therefore, we think the market is a lot safer than it really is. The past six years are a pretty good example of this but, for a better one, pull up a chart of the Dow from about 1966-1980. Still think 8%/yr after fees is a given? Still think if you hold for "the long term" you are sure to be okay? That is a 15 year period where the market went nowhere. There were plenty of ups and downs in the process, but, the guy who bought in 1966 and held "for the long term" was in the hole big time by 1980 (because of fees and inflation). Perhaps an even better example is 1930-1950 since it was right after a big "bubble" (just like we had in the late 90s).

So, all that is to say that you cannot necessarily call your plan "financially sound" and then qualify it with all those ifs - because they are a part of the equation and should not be discounted.

By no means does that mean that buying a house with a mortgage is a bad thing. There are a ton of good things that come out of that, plus, that's the only way that 95% of us can afford to own a home. Its just that I see a lot of people who think that taking out an equity line and putting it "in the market" is some sort of sure money making machine and that scares the he!! out of me. I make my living from the market and I know the rewards are there - but I also know there is no way around the risk.

With so many good pieces of advice, I can only add a bit.

If you're going to work for someone, or even if you eventually want to have a business, the key to success is the ability to show committment. Some how I was able to do that throughout my life so far. It got me a scholarship into a trade school. Then it got me a job directly out of school at a great company where I've been either promoted or rewarded with 15% annual raises over the past 10 years.

I think it's a fine line between knowing you're worth it and exhibiting a bratty sense of entitlement. Don't demand without earning. If you say you're going to do something, do it.


The other side of it has been discussed here already and that's managing any money you do get your hands on. To this day, I've never carried a balance on my credit cards. Borrowing for an investment like a house, education, business, etc is one thing, but don't ever do it for your personal wants. It is so easy to feel like you deserve it and that life is too short. My parents told themselves the same thing every year and blew most of their savings on vacations and other luxury items and they're coming up on retirement with very little to live on.

Bobby

Its really easy.. Dont have any kids. Then you can buy anything you want

I'll second that one! :)

Heh,

That's pretty funny since I was thinking that we're paying for our HT by having our 4th daughter ;)

The money I get back (more than last year now that we have another deduction) pays for the Home Equity Loan :cool:

Now, I intend to pay it off early anyway, but thought I'd just put in my 2 cents for having the kids to have more instead of the other way around :D

Mike

Well in my case I went a different way...

I make good enough money, buy my priority is my kids and family. Also, while I wanted a media room, I knew the big $$ had to go into remodel of the kitchen. So before I did anything I researched and researched. I seriously must have looked at 100 hours of photos at the AVS Gallery. I bet I went to every single home theater place in my area and while working out of town I would go to those theater places.

Overall there seemed to be two distinct type home theaters (not judging, just observing)

1st type - this is the complete gut out of a room or new construction. This often includes specialty details such as large crown molding/door casing, raised panels or sound panels. Lots of heavy curtains not only on windows but around the screens. Colors have been specifically and carefully selected both for to control light and for looks. Comfortable theater specific seating. Electronics hidden from view or in built in cabinets. Of course barely a wire to be seen. Many of these include decorative columns, cases, lighted poster frames, etc. Lighting is usually highly controllable, dimmable, with remote and include wall sconces, etc. DVD are usually stored in a separate "closet" with shelving or at least on nice custom shelving in the room.

2nd type - this is basically the person who takes an existing room and puts a large TV or PJ in the room with few other changes. Speakers may be on stands with wires visible (tho maybe tucked near the base board). If you look you can probably see all wiring even if "banded together" behind the equipment. Nothing special has been done to the room. Equipment is on existing shelving or where "the old TV was". Lighting is what was there with an on off switch. Maybe heavy curtains were put over window but that is about the extent of "light control". DVD's are stored where they always have been. Room colors are whatever was there before and seating is usually the existing sectional or couch/love seat.

What I decided to do was a mix of these two. However the main constraint was that to save as much money has possible, I wanted to do everything myself. I wanted wires hidden but I didn't want to have to hire someone to do it. So while I didn't know how at the time to go in the wall and up thru the top plate, I just went up the ceiling near the wall. Sure not quite as perfect but you see very little if any wire. I built my riser myself using common rough wood and rather then fancy carpet, just used glue down that was close to my color theme. For curtains I needed heavy as I had a wall of windows, but I just went to Bed, Bath and Beyond once I received a 20% off coupon. I built my own fixed ws screen. Bought a PJ only have it went on sale, had a coupon and free shipping. I used about $6.00 in plumbers parts to mount the PJ. All equipment was bought on sale and have careful searching. I painted the wall my screen is on, but so far that is it. I used $5.00 after Christmas rope lighting on mechanical dimmers for "mood" lighting. I bought used theater seats off fleabay for the rear row and using an existing couch for the front (tho I will eventually change this out for Berks). For the Dolby/DTS signs I downloaded high res images and modified them in MS paint and had printed at Target. Bought cheap poster frames at Michael's. Bought simple but nice track lighting on sale from Home Depot.

I could go on and on. But basically, if I couldn't do it myself, I didn't do it. I bought very carefully and waited for sales, coupons and even discontinued, used items (bought an old Voom box/antenna for like $50 that gives me OTA HD). If I saw something I liked (like the $75.00 Dolby Signs) I would research here or Google to find how to do them for about $10 yourself.

So what was my budgets? For everything but seating my budget was $2,000 and I ended up going about $2,500 or so. My used theater seats added about another $600. Like I say I want to add Berks, but using a couch right now.

This was my first HT "build" and very happy with it. We use the room so much, that my wife has pretty much given me the ok to upgrade, replace, redo whatever I want. We thought this room would be for "Saturday Night Movies" but now we found that we are in there every single day and other then the kitchen about the most common, useful room in the house. Yet my wife likes it as it is neat, clean (nothing on the floor).

And yea, now that I feel comfortable in what I did, I may go back and add some fancy crown molding, paint the rest of the room a "faux" finish, replace the carpet, etc, etc. But I'm happy with what I have done.

Well...

It's been a while. And I am now a financial Advisor. Through good personal skills I landed the job with a local company, and my income is based on how much I want to work now. Pretty good for being 18! I'm still going to get a degree in business administration..But I'll be making six figures while in college, (hopefully).

Thought I'd share with you guys, it's been almost a year since I started this thread.

No offense, Zeek, but this is why I don't tend to put a lot of stock (pun intended) in financial advisors... ;)

You are 18 and and a financial advisor? Who do you advise? Below 18's? That hardly brings you 6 figures unless you are talking in decimal points. :D

When I was doing mine i paid for it slowly. Since I work and worked on the project only two hour a day progress was slow so I ended up paying for it slowly. I always bought material as needed basis so did not have to pay much every time.

Another way is to build you room first like frame and dry wall. It should not be that expensive. But if it is too much borden then perhaps you should not get heavily involved in HT. But any way use the room until you have money for acoustical treatment or stuff like dimmers etc.

Do the work yourself, and over time. I've only spent a couple thousand on my theater so far (getting a new pj though) and it took me over a year to get to this point. I'll probably never consider it done, largely because almost everything I'm doing to the room is reversable.

The only debt I have right now is a car payment. I rent a modest 2200 square foot home but fortunately am friends with the landlord and he thinks the work I'm doing in the house is cool.

Be creative. I'm working toward being self-employed, it was tough-going at first putting in so much time on top of my day job and seeing so little in way of returns. If you are serious about it though it'll pay off, working on my private business I've made more in January this year than I did in the entire year of 2006. It takes time and patience, I don't trust anybody who got rich quick without any work. It takes effort.

That said, I kept costs down by going through family and friends for supplies and just shopping smart. I have family in furniture and got a lot of dent'n'scratch stuff for free, just takes a little know-how and hard work and nobody knows the difference. The screen is DIY, I've had other screens in the past and this is every bit as good as those. I kept an eye on the Sunday paper and would buy items when they'd go on sale, watch the fabric stores, sometimes you can stack discounts and get your expensive materials (like velvet) super-cheap ($6/yard gets you a lot further than $22/yard).

Heck, I even got my tools on sale. I was smart in how I appropriated some of the equipment, for example both my theater PC and my network storage (for my dvd collection) serve dual purposes as access/control/storage machines for my internal servers which allowed me to write-off several thousand in equipment; the tax refund I'm getting for depreciation of that gear is buying me a new projector this year.

Just be smart about it and don't hurry, if it's worth having it's worth waiting for. I used to have a bare bulb and crappy wall panels in my home office, now it's extremely comfortable, high-tech look, high-end studio lighting is up and the bamboo walls are going in this week. The impression it makes lends itself to making sales. Takes time, but in the end it's worth the effort.

If it's not you're doing something wrong.

The single most important thing I've learned is "pay yourself first." Doesn't matter how much you make. Just pay yourself first. Why should the electric company get my money before I do? I earn the money, so I deserve the money. I didn't start paying myself first until I was well into my 30's. I am now 44, and had I started paying myself first at Zeek's age, I would be retired now.

Scott

Well...

It's been a while. And I am now a financial Advisor. Through good personal skills I landed the job with a local company, and my income is based on how much I want to work now. Pretty good for being 18! I'm still going to get a degree in business administration..But I'll be making six figures while in college, (hopefully).


Thats hilarious!

Well...

It's been a while. And I am now a financial Advisor. Through good personal skills I landed the job with a local company, and my income is based on how much I want to work now. Pretty good for being 18! I'm still going to get a degree in business administration..But I'll be making six figures while in college, (hopefully).

Thought I'd share with you guys, it's been almost a year since I started this thread.


Shoot Bubba. You aint got no need fo college !.

Me "hey Zeek, I need to make some money quick with minimal invesment"
Zeek, "Well, like..you can like, go to like, the bank, and like..rob them"

All things being equal.....this post, when taken in the context of Zeeks original post and the rest of the thread, may be the FUNNIEST thing EVER posted on the entire internet.

50 years from now, it will be in history books, illustrating the dawn of the information age, lol, and the silliness that we endured during the early years.


Well...

It's been a while. And I am now a financial Advisor. Through good personal skills I landed the job with a local company, and my income is based on how much I want to work now. Pretty good for being 18! I'm still going to get a degree in business administration..But I'll be making six figures while in college, (hopefully).

Thought I'd share with you guys, it's been almost a year since I started this thread.

haha.......now that's funny!

but seriously, do what i do....start a construction company, you find something you need or want, add it in the quote!!

just kidding of course.

are you sure you aren't serious, lol....lots of people create legal tax shelters like that, especially if you have the capital.


IE, buy 20 or 50 or whatever LCD Front projectors, sell 19 of them (or 49) on ebay as a side business, write the other one off....(buy them directly from manufacturer or distributor at wholesale)....

I know one guy that wanted to get into RC helipcopters and has bought over 100 of them in the past year :eek: :eek: :eek: (usually about 1-2 grand to get one into "flyable" condition)......all a write off as he is now in the heli-trading business....

Costs 75 bucks in louisiana to form an LLC.....


haha.......now that's funny!

but seriously, do what i do....start a construction company, you find something you need or want, add it in the quote!!

just kidding of course.

Shoot Bubba. You aint got no need fo college !.

Me "hey Zeek, I need to make some money quick with minimal invesment"
Zeek, "Well, like..you can like, go to like, the bank, and like..rob them"


No dude, I'm sure Zeek will be able to recommend a hot mutual fund, or whatever other lame craptastic stock of the week his company is pushing. This requires no degree. It's also not "financial advising" -- It's sales. And it's sad.

I'm going to start a business using the same model. Look for me at IripYOUoff.com

Yeah, i got visions of Giovanni Ribbici (or however you spell it) in "Boiler Room"


No dude, I'm sure Zeek will be able to recommend a hot mutual fund, or whatever other lame craptastic stock of the week his company is pushing. This requires no degree. It's also not "financial advising" -- It's sales. And it's sad.

I'm going to start a business using the same model. Look for me at IripYOUoff.com

I need to watch that movie again. Used to be in my favorites list and got slowly edged out. Great flick.

i got some financial advise..........keep your money in your pocket.

Sure go to college, but, that's only a piece of the puzzle. Both Dean Kamen and Bill Gates are college drop outs.
Strap on a set of stones and take chances, recognize & seize opportunities while you are young and energetic. Too many people dream about things, but that's where it ends for most people. "A goal is a dream with a deadline."

No one ever got rich working for someone.

That's not 100% accurate. There are people I know who started with a company when it was young and small. The company gave out stock options -- those options are now worth millions, as the company is now very large.

Happened also to many Microsoft employees and Google employees.

If you get in on the ground floor of a company that takes off, you can indeed get rich without being a business ower -- but merely by being an employee.

There are plenty of rich people who work for others. To say you have to work for yourself to be rich is total crap.

Scott

Boiler Room, great reference. Now this thread is complete.

There are plenty of rich people who work for others. To say you have to work for yourself to be rich is total crap.

Scott

You are absolutely correct. Anyone who has read The Millionaire Next door knows this. Lots of wealth has been generated by working for someone else and using the regular paycheck to fund investments.

"No one ever got rich working for someone."

We all work for someone, name one hermit who's rich - excluding George Lucas :rolleyes:

I Thought I would be enlightend, sorely disappointed

Close this thread

I Thought I would be enlightend, sorely disappointed

Close this thread

There are a lot of very valuable thoughts scattered throughout this thread. Who knows, there may yet be a few more.

And if nothing else, a little humor now and then is good for the soul..... :cool:

Nobody every got rich working for anyone else? There must be thousands of counter examples to that.

Say, for example, a very large group of people at Google. Or Microsoft. Every CEO in America.

And I've done very well working for others. I worked for myself for 4 years and gained valuable experience that makes me worth much more, working for others, now.

And, there's this piece of advice my Pappy gave me (which I didn't follow): "Son, rich girls need love, too."

:D

Randy

well whats in ah name.. Well allot for me however even though my great, great grand father was the brother of John Harvey and WK Kellogg they didn't leave us squat :(

So to pay for my theater I whored myself out to 60,000 large women for a $1 each. Just kidding I have been bless with a very good job. However CptnRandy tiz right no one ever gets rich working for the man, well rarely.

Also do the room right the first time you'll save allot of money....

Speaking of paying for home theater additions or finished basement projects. Has anybody here financed a project like this with some type of home renovation loan, home equity loan, or home equity line of credit? I have some unfinished space in the basement of my house, and i'd like to put a modest media room/home theater down there. Thanks for the input.

I would recommend the book: The Total Money Makeover. Alot of people spend out of their budget (including me). Dont rack up debt. Im 24, and have no college degree, and made WAY over 6 digits last year, but other than 401k, I dont have alot to show for it because I spent alot of it on paying off Debt, going out to eat, starting my wifes business, and building a HT. I am still trying to learn how to invest my money, and train myself how to spend within my means. I dont believe that you have to make alot of money to be rich, just spend wisely and save. Also, if you find that you are good at something, you do not have to have a college degree, but in most cases it helps alot. Learn marketing and sales if you can because they are pretty much universal tools to move yourself ahead out there. But thats just 2 cents.

brings us back to boiler room......those who say money is the root of all evil..don't have money. or money don't make you happy........look at the smile on my face.

We will never overcome ignorance or poverty. Years ago, I had an employee who didn't want a pay raise, because, he wouldn't qualify for government assistance. :eek:

you know, people can say what they want when i comes to saving money, how to save money and how to make money. but the way i see it "the man" really wants us to be in debt. that's how HE makes the money. and i think it comes down to this.........the people fear the government when the government should fear the people, period. but that's just my opinion.

Seriously whore your self out to 60,000 large women for $1 each hahaha... I need to do an get rich plan based on it :)

Why exactly do they have to be large women?

needy????

So, what i'm taking from this thread, other than the great Boiler Room quotes (Scott you left off "ear to ear baby"), is that about 95% of people pay for their HT's/Media Rooms with cash money. And thats probably a good idea, i guess i'm going to have to be a little more patient. Not that i'm in a great hurry, i'm still young. Just trying to learn more about the HT world. By the way, i'm new to this forum and the world of serious a/v, and i must say this place is a wealth of information. Its been really neat to read these threads over the last few weeks, Its so overwhelming, kind of like trying to get a drink of water from a fire hydrant.

So, what i'm taking from this thread, other than the great Boiler Room quotes (Scott you left off "ear to ear baby"), is that about 95% of people pay for their HT's/Media Rooms with cash money. And thats probably a good idea, i guess i'm going to have to be a little more patient. Not that i'm in a great hurry, i'm still young. Just trying to learn more about the HT world. By the way, i'm new to this forum and the world of serious a/v, and i must say this place is a wealth of information. Its been really neat to read these threads over the last few weeks, Its so overwhelming, kind of like trying to get a drink of water from a fire hydrant.
then i'm in the 5% that financed everything. when my ht build expanded into a complete basement finishing project, we had to do a home equity line.

and if you're doing it yourself and fairly new to this, you'll probably double your cost estimates while you're planning, and it will double again while you're building. and of course it takes a lot longer. so just make sure that whatever you do, buy the AV equipment only when you're about to install it. otherwise, you'll have some fantastic stuff stacked in boxes for months. i'm at least using my gear in the living room while i'm waiting for my sheetrock to be finished.

Speaking of paying for home theater additions or finished basement projects. Has anybody here financed a project like this with some type of home renovation loan, home equity loan, or home equity line of credit? I have some unfinished space in the basement of my house, and i'd like to put a modest media room/home theater down there. Thanks for the input.

I paid for all of my equipment and seating with cash.

I paid for 3/4 of the construction of the room itself with a home equity loan.

I don't think credit is a bad thing as long as it's paid off quickly. People get themselves into trouble when they start using credit as income supplementation.

Why exactly do they have to be large women?

Themyscira.

So, what i'm taking from this thread, other than the great Boiler Room quotes (Scott you left off "ear to ear baby"), is that about 95% of people pay for their HT's/Media Rooms with cash money. And thats probably a good idea, i guess i'm going to have to be a little more patient. Not that i'm in a great hurry, i'm still young. Just trying to learn more about the HT world. By the way, i'm new to this forum and the world of serious a/v, and i must say this place is a wealth of information. Its been really neat to read these threads over the last few weeks, Its so overwhelming, kind of like trying to get a drink of water from a fire hydrant.
Welcome to the forum, Triad guy! :D

Thanks Pam

Wow...a year and six months later..


I'm doing the fierfighting thing, I'm wondering if any of you have any experience in this field? TONS of people have told me that they do firefighting, and on their days off run their own businesses, a guy here in town owns a company called "California Truck" that he satrted on his days of of firefighting... Also with overtime firefighters make up to six figures a year which isn't too bad at all to me, I like simplicity... Thanmk you all for all of the advice and please keep it coming, I'm 19, have a girlfriend, and need some advice from older guys! Heck even people my age... thanks!

Go to college or learn a trade. You do not want to build your lifestyle around how much overtime you can work. Sure you can build a house and an H.T. but you will be married to it. Just my opinion.

Go to college. Not even considering the perks of have a college degree, it will be the best 4 years of your life. I would trade in my house and theater, to live and feel like I did in college. What a life!

and firefighting's a dangerous profession. injury = out of work. say you injured your back at 25 years old...you're screwed. nobody wants a disabled fireman trying to pull them out of a burning building!

Hi Zeek,

I am currently employed as a Full Time Firefighter here in Canada. Great job for sure but of course risky. The difficult part is actually getting on a dept. I consider myself lucky! Over 5000 people applied when I was hired (24 in my class). So to say it is competitive is an understatement. I work 24 hour shifts which allow me alot of time away from the job to pursue another business and work on my theater :).

I say go for it! But don't expect to simply get hired by the first dept you apply for..It won't happen!

Good luck,
WS

A good education will go along way. Both my wife and i have B.S's in engineering. At 24 we have a home with both a dedicated theater and a pretty decent media setup in our living room. Luckily living in the midwest is really good since the cost of living is really really cheap.

Pursue higher education

Sacrifice things you want but dont need.

SAVE SAVE SAVE ...understand the time value of money and really take it to heart.

learn how to DIY. youd be surprised how much things cost when you want people to do them. Ive paid laborers more than i make an hour

a college degree would never hurt, i have absolutly no degree and i make great $ i recently got a job as a stuntman, its amazing money but i risk getting hurt every single day and theres no garunteed work, if theres a strike or movies and tv shows slow down then im screwed so im not able to just dump a ton of money into a HT room, but sometimes its not what you know but who you kow

Whether it's a college/univeristy degree or a skilled trade, the important thing is to do what it takes to get a well paying job. Next up is pay off all your debts and not live on credit, cars included. When you have a bit of extra funds, buy property, any property. Learn to do a bit of DIY and start moving up the property ladder. Soon you'll find that the equity you have built up with every move up allows you to spend $10, $20 or $50k on a home theater.

Me, I started with a decent job after university, and I worked during those years so I would have no student loans. As soon as I saved 5% down, I bought my first place, a small apartment. A few years later I now have a house large enough for a dedicated 15X35 theater room in the bastment, but growing up REAL poor taught me that it's always cheaper to do it myself. I should be finished my first DIY theater in 3 more months. Cost will be ~$10k for materials including seating. The room will resemble what I've been quoted $40k-$60k for. It's amazing how much someone else's labor costs.

Two and a half years later...

I am in the FireFighter 1 Academy, and begin my EMT training next month. Being a firefighter is going to be very fun... It's honestly the most rewarding thing ever, a great group of guys. And I have the ABILITY to make quite a large sum of money, if I want to.

I get my whole schedule for the year, so I am considering running a second business, concrete, building houses, building acoustic guitars... What do you guys see people making good money in these days, I'm hoping to be some type of contractor on the side. There's a guy i know that runs a concrete business on the side of being a fireman and pulls in 100k a year off of his concrete business, and 50-60k for being a firefighter (he started out with just being a firefighter.)


Financial advising is the most retarded thing ever, it's not me at all and I'm not one of those "Shake your hand with a fake smile" kind of guys. And I'm NOT going to switch careers, firefighting is the way to go, I'm just looking for some advice from some older people that have been around as to what they see in other trades and such? Thanks... Someday I'll post a picture of my amazing theater (after I build it.)

Zeek

Couple of my friends are city firefighters. They love it and for some reason or another have a lot of time off. I used to run EMS part-time for 11 years while I was in highschool, college, etc. Used to enjoy it when I was doing it. Saw some freaky crap during those times. Even got shot at twice. Lucky for me they missed :cool:.

Whatever you do with your life become good at it and take part in your career. What I mean by that is don't just go to work to work. Try and add something to your field, become an expert at it and perhaps even contribute to advancements in that field. There is a difference between a job and a career.

A group of firefighters here has a booming business on the side as chimney sweeps! Who better to sweep your chimney and check out your fireplace than a firefighter.

A group of firefighters here has a booming business on the side as chimney sweeps! Who better to sweep your chimney and check out your fireplace than a firefighter.

Must be really tiny firefighters! :D


Seriously - here's my advice: plan your finances and life around what you earn as a firefighter, then look for something you really enjoy. Don't put yourself in a situation where you put your main livelihood at risk by injuring yourself or wearing yourself out on your "days off". But find something you enjoy and you can make a little extra at and I'm betting you'll be happier.

And get to that home theater you've been wanting!

Good Luck,

Randy

CptnRandy ....Great Advise.

I'm 40 and doing that very thing. I work in the steel industry as a sales rep. but I run a side business....making money off one of my hobbies. I enjoy making architectural scale models and have found a nich in the amusement industry. I have been doing this for several years and have built a good customer base. I specialize in wooden roller coasters and take on a couple of projects a year. I'm at the point now were I can make 5 figures for my models. Just for playing with models!!:D

But...like many have already said....be the best at whatever you do. And if you want to start a side business, find a way to get paid for something that you love to do!

Some great advice in this thread. Interesting to see the paths.

Looking over my shoulder lets see...
Some have mentioned the military. I went this path as a fast track and skip college. My thoughts were I'd be too distracted in college. So after a few years in a specialized field of service, I tried corporate America. After sitting in a respectable position there for 6 years I felt it wasn't me. I can't stand suburbia and the crowd. Using my skills I'm now making 5x as much overseas as a private contractor. I don't have a mortgage, bills, or kids, but I have an x-wife, and own 3 cars. If you want something bad enough, you can get it. Just be careful how you get there. Higher the risk, higher the consequences, but can yield high return. Investing early is also a must. I’m looking to retire at 35. Oh, my signature has a helpful tip.

Cheers from the sandbox
Iraq & Afghanistan

I decided to stick to my plan and finish University while my friends were busying clubbing and living it up. Fast forward 5 years out of school, I've got a decent job with a steady paycheck. Not a large amount of money, but not starving either.

Instead of taking a vacation every year. I took that $5,000 my wife and I set aside for a honeymoon and bought our first house instead. After researching all I could, I kept on buying and selling and using equity to leverage more and more properties. Now 7years later, I can pretty much live mortgage free, but I still keep going...and going...and going. Even though I put in 8 hours a day on my 'white collar' office job which I don't like that much, I still manage 20-30 hrs a week into reno-ing the house I'm living in at the time. I suppose I should be exhausted, but it doesn't seem like work when I enjoy the reno-ing so much.

As for the HT, I found I have a knack for construction in general. I'm in the middle of doing my 6 month-frigid winter between GOLF seasons - HT build. I wish I was 1/4 as good at golf as I am at reno-ing. I stink at golf considering how many games I play.

Oh yeah, I still haven't taken a vacation in the 12 years after graduating university. I keep saying 'next year for sure' but a good deal on a property always comes out and drains my bank account.

Seriously whore your self out to 60,000 large women for $1 each hahaha... I need to do an get rich plan based on it :)


I took your advice but decided on only 6,000 slightly overweight women for $10 each. But I'm still no further ahead, because my stupid business model included a "Money Refunded unless satisfied" guarantee

Go to college. Not even considering the perks of have a college degree, it will be the best 4 years of your life. I would trade in my house and theater, to live and feel like I did in college. What a life!

Agree that a college degree is great, but where I went to school (Univ IL) and recv'd my B.S. engineering degree, it wasn't exactly fun... That being said, I am definitely glad I did it (better than working as a masonry labor, which is how I helped pay my way through school).

My sister told me something when I started my first job out of school that was a tremendous help to me. Start off putting the minimum amount in your 401k that gets you the full company match (more if you can afford it). Every time you get a raise, put half of it into investments (401k, brokerage acct, etc.). You're still getting more money in your pocket, but you're still paying yourself first.
BTW: I would recommend reading the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series (and the podcasts). These books partially contradict the college idea, but get you to think outside the box. I still haven't heard his views on the RE market after the sub-prime issues going on. Although he did make a ton of money during the 80's housing recession.

Some really great advice here from some smart guys! It heightens my already high degree of respect for this forum. Nearly all posts have common themes:


Education (not a guarantee of success, but a big door opener)
Start saving early. (don't expect the Government or your Company to be there for you when you are old)
Delayed gratification (buy stuff only when you can afford to pay cash for it, and when your savings objectives are being met). The "feed the pig" PSA on TV is a noble undertaking, even if it kills the sale of a HDTV:eek:
Watch your personal relationships. Find a good spouse and take care of him/her. Divorces can ruin your financial and personal life.


I would add a couple of other items:

Balance: A little "live for today" in your equation is important. You could have cancer growing in your parcreas right now and be dead in 3 months. Instead of upgrading your projector, consider taking your kids on a road trip or some other vacation. They grow up pretty fast, and pretty soon they'll be gone and you'll have more time than you want to play with your HT gear all by yourself.
Help and appreciate others: You don't have to be a big "bleeding heart" to be mindful that a lot of others have to think twice about renting a DVD, much less afford a HT. Remember to give a NICE tip the food server, the guy who brings in your washing machine or takes away your trash.

Some great advice in this thread. Interesting to see the paths.

Looking over my shoulder lets see...
Some have mentioned the military. I went this path as a fast track and skip college. My thoughts were I'd be too distracted in college. So after a few years in a specialized field of service, I tried corporate America. After sitting in a respectable position there for 6 years I felt it wasn't me. I can't stand suburbia and the crowd. Using my skills I'm now making 5x as much overseas as a private contractor. I don't have a mortgage, bills, or kids, but I have an x-wife, and own 3 cars. If you want something bad enough, you can get it. Just be careful how you get there. Higher the risk, higher the consequences, but can yield high return. Investing early is also a must. I’m looking to retire at 35. Oh, my signature has a helpful tip.

Cheers from the sandbox
Iraq & Afghanistan
I wouldn't bank on a war happening where you can make 3-8x more for the same job overseas, and all you have to put up with are being away from amenities of home, and rockets landing on your FOB. (That is, unless you're security escort)

I suppose this is more political than anything, but the IT contractors I met over there had the knowledge about one level below where they were, and made 3x as much as their position would in the US. Very frustrating for soldiers, to say the least. Most were severely in debt and/or divorced and trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

Anyway, I went the route of college and the military at the same time, and continue in that manner until retirement. Good side money + civilian career that I love + occasional suckage of getting deployed.

A HT (just like anything else) can be anywhere from a few thousand to a few hundred thousand... and more.... as most of us know.

The theater I am currently planning is going to be around 55-75k. And I plan on building the actual room myself.

How am I going to pay for it? I don't have a college education, though I wish I had. If I did I know for a fact I could make double+ what I make now in a different industry. I am in sales and I make well over 6 figures. Please don't perceive this as bragging... read on...

How and why can I do that? Because I bust my ass! I answer my phone 24x7, I work whenever I need to get the job done. I put in 14+ hour days when it calls for it. Every Sunday night for a few hours I prepare for the week ahead. I am always selling. My career is my life.

There is no secret to making money... work smart and hard!

Now also keep in mind, I am fortunate to be smart enough to sell in the higher end of my industry. I am in the technology field and sell to large corporations. Not everyone has the personality for sales, especially at this level. And when you are dealing with a higher end sale such as what I work on, not everyone can work the strategy required.

I know people who have educations out their ass... and make pennies. But for them, money, toys, etc... is not important.

So, it all comes down to drive, amibition, work ethic, a little bit of smarts, and how badly you want something. I want my toys so I do what I need to do to get them. It's that simple.

Good luck.
-Phil

Not applicable to your situation but in my case I just figured the kids don't really have to eat every single day. Those meals really add up. :D:D

Wow, what a thread with history.

Back to the OP "How do you afford building your theatre"?

a) Set your budget within your ability to pay for it.
For me, that meant DIY, a multi-year project (4 years), pay as you go/build
b) There will always be someone with more $$$ than you.
I make 6 figure salary, went to college, BS and MS degree.
College is for some people, not for some people.
Yet, I got married, new home, 3 kids, you'd be suprised how cash flow tightens up.
I bought "decent equipment", around $15k for all electronics/gear.
5 year plan before upgrade.
c) Related to cash flow, I've used the GE credit 12 months same as cash.
I do not ever pay credit card interest.
d) I've cut back on non-essentials:
-less outside dinners, eat at home
-bring lunch to work 4 of 5 days
-etc
It all adds up

Good luck with your life choices!

Don 't get me wrong, I was doing just fine at my desk job working a NOC in the US. I just didn't like the people, or location, and wasn't utilizing all my skills. My new company found me, and I was wanting a change.

What you say is very true for the type in war zones, but my field is satcom (31S1P). We seem to be a rare breed, with options of great locations. War zones are for the action, and when you get tired move to a NOC somewhere like Greece, Germany, or Japan. I know exactly what you mean of IT guys, and yes they have their stories. Most are recovering from holes, or funding an extravagant lifestyle that will fade quickly once back in the US. Some have no military background(never held a weapon), and others are just plain idiots(we call them laptop support bitches). We love hearing them scream and run for cover when the rockets come in. I'm usually holding my M4 laughing while taking a piss.

Best advice I can give for military personnel is retain that clearance.

I wouldn't bank on a war happening where you can make 3-8x more for the same job overseas, and all you have to put up with are being away from amenities of home, and rockets landing on your FOB. (That is, unless you're security escort)

I suppose this is more political than anything, but the IT contractors I met over there had the knowledge about one level below where they were, and made 3x as much as their position would in the US. Very frustrating for soldiers, to say the least. Most were severely in debt and/or divorced and trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

Anyway, I went the route of college and the military at the same time, and continue in that manner until retirement. Good side money + civilian career that I love + occasional suckage of getting deployed.

I had the extra cash even before I decided to have a home theater.
I originally wanted to have a nice setup in the family room with a big
plasma tv and a nice set of speakers. Then use whatever is left of
it on another tv for the bedroom. Then after seeing the floor plan of
the house we were set to build, the idea of having a dedicated home
theater came to mind when I was wondering what to do with the bonus
room upstairs. I worked my purchases on what I could afford and what
was left of my budget. I'm happy to say that my HT is all paid for and I'm
still debt free (well except for the mortgage and car payment).

the moral of this thread is to live and work. There's no secret. Most here are simply much older than you and have lived their lives. These aren't 25 year olds.

the moral of this thread is to live and work. There's no secret. Most here are simply much older than you and have lived their lives. These aren't 25 year olds.

Good point, I'm guessing a marketing profile of people with dedicated Home Theatre would show:
(MY SWAG'S HERE)
- below 30 years old: 5%
-30 To 40 years old: 25%
-40 to 50 years old: 50%
-50 to 60 years old: 10%
-60 +: 10%

It does take some time to get established and have that discreationary money, i.e., money you wont miss or need if it was not around in the first place.
Home Theatre should come after people "have their life together", i.e., no credit card dept, putting $$$ into 401k's, saving at least 10% every paycheck, etc.

Definitely a luxury item, a "want".

From what I see here the majority of people who post seem to fit that profile.

I would add a couple of other items:

Balance: A little "live for today" in your equation is important. You could have cancer growing in your parcreas right now and be dead in 3 months. Instead of upgrading your projector, consider taking your kids on a road trip or some other vacation. They grow up pretty fast, and pretty soon they'll be gone and you'll have more time than you want to play with your HT gear all by yourself.
Help and appreciate others: You don't have to be a big "bleeding heart" to be mindful that a lot of others have to think twice about renting a DVD, much less afford a HT. Remember to give a NICE tip the food server, the guy who brings in your washing machine or takes away your trash.



I second those, great points.
Kids and family first (my HT has taken 4 years, so I can speak from experience)

Tipping; I've done "ok" in life and like to spread some of that karma around.

How about this:
RAK = "Random Acts of Kindness", it sure suprises people when you:
-hold the door open for them
-wave them in front of you while driving and they'd like to cut in
-smile and say "good morning" with sincerity

Tipping; I've done "ok" in life and like to spread some of that karma around.

How about this:
RAK = "Random Acts of Kindness", it sure suprises people when you:
-hold the door open for them
-wave them in front of you while driving and they'd like to cut in
-smile and say "good morning" with sincerity


Not nearly enough of this in Michigan !!!!!!!!!!

Art

Now my only thing is...I don't know whatthe heck I want to do. I would love a degree in business, but I don't know what services to offer. I was thinking of owning a web site hosting server thingy in San Luis? I'm not sure. i can never think of any needs that need to be met.

Any ideas?

Zeek,

I'm 21 in a little over a month. I have an associates degree. I don't do anything with it. I'm returning to college for the summer semester to start school again. its never too late to figure out what you want to do. A lot of people don't figure that out until their junior year of college. Web hosting... a very good friend of mine (who happens to have a home theater and some VERY nice cars) owns a web hosting company. They currently host around 11,000 websites, and growing. It is a very competitive business, and you HAVE to know what you're doing if you want to survive past the 1st year. My friend for example, ran the entire company (sales, IT, server maintainance etc) by himself for over 2 years with the help of only his 1 business partner. he is now to a point where he has hired somebody to work IT for him so he can step back a little and enjoy the fruits of his labor. but if it hadn't been for his degree in computer sciences, he probably would have failed years ago. You need to surround yourself with positive influences and people who inspire you to do well and succeed. anyone who tells you, you can't do something is no good for you and you need to get rid of them yesterday. so surround yourself with successful people, learn from them, watch their mistakes, watch their successes and in turn you will get yours. If you're doing something for the money, chances are it'll never come, because you either hate what you're doing, or you're so driven on the idea of money that it becomes like chasing your own tail. Do something you LOVE, and the money will come in turn.

sorry to pull from such an old post, just a good one for me to get my word out. Good luck Zeek.

sorry for the double post. feel i should add, my friend i spoke of is about 10 years older than me, his success didn't happen over night. he worked in an IT job that he hated for a couple years then decided to go into business for himself. If you have decided for sure, that firefighting is what you want to do, awesome. heres some food for thought, a couple years down the road, why not start a company doing fire and security systems. who has a better understanding of fire alarm systems etc than a firefighter?

Why are adults always asking kids what they want to be when they grow up?

Because we're looking for good ideas.

Actually man I appreciate it a lot. That's a really good idea and I think I am going got take all of this advice and run with it...

Thanks man!

What would you do if you were a 20 year old in your career making 40,000 a year?

Just wondering what some of you would do if you were in that spot or if you could be in that spot again...

Start a second business? I kind of want to

I was in that spot at 22, right out of college. I took a job that was interesting for a while, but didn't satisfy me much. The money was good and I travelled a lot (3 weeks a month) all around New England. Though the wife didn't like it much, I did, as I grew up in a small town in OK and had never been to NE.

I stayed in that job for nearly 12 years, though in various capacities and positions. In the end, I woke up and found an indiustry that satisfied my technical need, while satisfyig my desire to learn about large corporate business.

If I had it to do over again, I'd have departed my first company as soon as I found it boring and struck out on a different path. Personally, I have no desire at this time to run a small business, but I've had quite a few friends do that and about 1/2 of them are doing very well for themselves.

Ben and Jerry's has a corporate motto that is now one that I've adopted: "If it's not fun, why do it."

CJ

What would you do if you were a 20 year old in your career making 40,000 a year?

Just wondering what some of you would do if you were in that spot or if you could be in that spot again...

Start a second business? I kind of want to

Put 20K away for 5 years and dont touch it until you retire, you dont spend your 40K do you?

One thing you need to do is PUT MONEY AWAY FOR RETIREMENT. You will be amazed what it will be worth when you are 60. 10 to 20 K a year saved for 4 to 5 years at your age and you are SET, I mean SET when you retire. DONT TOUCH IT.

Its nice to have all the toys in the world because you have so much disposable income but 40K doesnt go far once you settle down have a family, etc. Its barely middle class these days. Save large chunks of it now when you can.

Im only 39 now and retirement savings is something young people just dont care about and just dont get it but if you do it right early, you will be SO HAPPY later on. You will live longer have more sex and so on because the stress wont be there :D

BINGO !!!!

Ever heard of wall street firms ??

I have many many friends who do work at such firms (hence do work for someone else) and make various millions of dollars every year. I mean, dude !


And now we know how they madoff it!

Bump

Put 20K away for 5 years and dont touch it until you retire, you dont spend your 40K do you?

One thing you need to do is PUT MONEY AWAY FOR RETIREMENT. You will be amazed what it will be worth when you are 60. 10 to 20 K a year saved for 4 to 5 years at your age and you are SET, I mean SET when you retire. DONT TOUCH IT.


I'll be shocked if it's worth anything. I've been saving since around 2000, and I've lost money in every one of my several 401k/IRAs. That's right -- lost money. Granted, I'm saving at the maximum amount I can per year, but I can't figure out how to make money in the stock market/bonds. One of my portfolios lost 38% since Jan. 2007, and that's a highly diversified portfolio. Personally, I think the returns people say one can get in the stock market aren't really there.

I'll be shocked if it's worth anything. I've been saving since around 2000, and I've lost money in every one of my several 401k/IRAs. That's right -- lost money. Granted, I'm saving at the maximum amount I can per year, but I can't figure out how to make money in the stock market/bonds. One of my portfolios lost 38% since Jan. 2007, and that's a highly diversified portfolio. Personally, I think the returns people say one can get in the stock market aren't really there.

You won't want to hear this, but you're looking over much to short a time period. Over 30 years you should see reasonable growth - say 8%. Hang in there!

Randy