Will get it home later tonight and check it out this weekend. I will report back. :)

Ditto.

Just picked one up at the BB in Plano Texas.

Quick initial thoughts/observations:

2006 model records to +RW now!

I do not see/hear a fan inside the unit even though there is a fan cutout on the back.

Remote seems to be slightly redesigned - larger fonts/numbers on keys. Keys seem to be identified easily and placement is good.

UI seems redesigned over 2005 model. Slightly more intuitive?

So far I do NOT detect RF interference on TV passthru or recording like I did from the ES20. This is GOOD!

Initial observations indcate proper audio sync when played back on other equipment, which is good like ES20. I don't like watching TV recorded like bad Kung-Fu movies!

Drive mech seems slightly more noisy than other units I have tried lately (with +RW anyway), however this is not really a problem.

I am recording off of HBO on-demand and so far so good! :D

Can someone Please check & see when you are doing a "Manual" FR recording can you "Pause" the recording to cut out commercials & etc & also how does it handle Dual Layer Discs on playback & in the Menu System (Titles & Etc)? Thanks.

Congratulations on your purchases and thanks for posting your initial experience with these brand new models!

I second Bill1313's request - if you have time to check, please check if you can Pause when recording in FR mode. Thanks!

I don't connect mine to an OTA source, I did pause on FR using line in and it worked.

I've been playing all night, here's a quick & dirty;

- PQ seems excellent. I hooked up my ES20 as a source to back up some DVDs thru CT200 and noticed a poorer PQ. When I switched back to the same Sony player I used for comparison and re-recorded, PQ was right back spot on.

- On my downstairs DVD player, I had some compatibility problems with -R and the Panny top menu (title menu) which have not been evident with the new 15 model.

- On that same playback unit (downstairs) there is a pseudo bitrate monitor with 1 to 10 bars indicating the level. The ES15 seems to manage its PQ with a lower indicated bitrate using subjective comparison. On a sub 4 hour FR test, I frequently saw 2-3 bars versus 4-5 with the ES20. I'm not ready to draw any conclusions, but the implication is that the new model is more efficient with its VBR recording. The ES15 still claims 500 line resolution in LP (4 hour) mode.

- One thing thats BUGGING THE CRAP out of me - the new ES15 remote doesn't have a tray open (Eject) button, you gotta use the console button to eject. Sure, you have to go to the unit anyway, but it changes the way I work. The ES20 remote seems fully compatible, and the Eject function works on the 15 when using the 20 remote.

- there are several UI changes in the menu and front panel with the 15 showing more info, such as the % complete on finalizing certain disk formats.

- the 15 takes you through a stepped format process for, and I'm hoping I recall correctly, +R discs. If I'm mistaken, then its -R. Once you load the blank disc, the machine prompts you to format and you get the joy of saying Yes a couple times. In one instance, I was prompted to set the "Playback Starts With ..." parameter at format.

- Audio seems outstanding.

- NO bugs found yet.

- I tested DV In recording with my Sony 480 camcorder. You don't get remote control over the camcorder. Upon detection of the DV, you are prompted automatically to begin DV In Automatic Recording. The Panny seemed to back up the camcorder a few seconds then synchro start - NOT a full rewind. A small nit, using manual recording via DV, if the camcorder is not playing, then the "start" will fail on the Panny and prompt you to start the camcorder first. On the ES20, it would simply pause and begin recording upon frame detection. This is a step back, coupled with the step forward of auto detection and less steps required vs the ES20. Full rate recording at XP speed worked fine with both 15 and 20 - (a defect in the Sony 315 model I have which can't keep up with the data rate).

- The chassis is a bit more elegant with soft moulded curves versus the older model.

- The new model DID recognize and play some old +RWs of mine done on the Sony, which is a newly supported format for Panasonic.

- The new remote (despite not having Eject) is a great deal faster to use with its rounded switch design for up/down/left/right versus the discrete 4 buttons of the older unit. I find it MUCH faster to perform text entry and menu nav.

That's tonights report. Work goes on though the weekend!

Kent

Thanks for the "Quick" Report, & hopefully onto Dual Layer -R & +R testing including Record, Playback, Menus, Titles & how DL discs made on the Panny play on other dvd players & recorders. Thanks Again.

Well, very nice indeed! And thanks very much for this report......please keep us updated... Many thanks !

Does anyone know if this model is available in black? I see a few online merchants advertising both silver and black models, but they are not merchants I would do business with.

Well if it's like last year? The Big Boys will have the "Silver" version & the smaller guys will have the "Black" version.

They don't have them listed yet but I would think that www.crutchfield.com will have the black model & they are a great company to do business with but expect to pay top dollar from them also.

Can someone Please check & see when you are doing a "Manual" FR recording can you "Pause" the recording to cut out commercials & etc & also how does it handle Dual Layer Discs on playback & in the Menu System (Titles & Etc)? Thanks.

Bill1313 and ncaahoops,

Are you both reffering to the ES20 when you speak of NOT being able to pause a manual set FR recording to delete commercials?

I have the ES30V(VCR/DVD Recorder) and have used the manual FR recording modes(on DVD-RW's and -R's) and have had no problems pausing(or stopping to create new title's if I want) the recordings to delete out commercials/etc.

I did this during the Steeler's run to the Super Bowl this year on DVD-RW's. I set the manual record to 2HR 55min(just in case of an overtime game), and as I watched the game's, I would pause the unit(using the remote) when the commercials began, and press pause again when they came back from commercials to begin the recording again(I know this would all be a hell of alot easier with an HDD recorder, but since I don't do this often, I have not been able to justify the cost of one yet).

I used the -RW discs because if the Steelers had lost the game(WHICH THEY NEVER DID!!! WOOHOO!!!!!) I could simply use the -RW disc again, after re-formating it to erase it, for something else.

I've done about 10-15 recordings this way with no problems. After finalizing the -RW they all play fine in any dvd player I have come across.

Is this something Panny took away in the later models? It doesn't allow you just to pause an FR manually set recording?

Seems strange they would do that(eliminate that ability), but of course stranger things have been done.

Just a couple of quick minor observations;

- disc recognition is amazingly fast. In goes the tray, BAM.

- I've let the machine reach the end of the DVD while recording 3 times so far, no problems finalizing.

STEELERSRULE, Yes & it seems that only the ES20 model was the only model that Panasonic ever made that you could'nt do it on & what you used it for is the exact reason why I think it's so important to have this feature.

But form reading the posts above it sounds like Panasonic put the FR "PAUSE" feature on the new entry level ES15 so I would guess that the rest of this year's Panny models must have it too. :)

Well if it's like last year? The Big Boys will have the "Silver" version & the smaller guys will have the "Black" version.

They don't have them listed yet but I would think that www.crutchfield.com will have the black model & they are a great company to do business with but expect to pay top dollar from them also.

I totally agree with your opinion of Crutchfield. I have purchased many audio/video products from them and will continue to do so. Just to make my original statement clearer, the vendors presently offering the black model, are ones I would not use.

Bill1313 and ncaahoops,

Are you both reffering to the ES20 when you speak of NOT being able to pause a manual set FR recording to delete commercials?

Yes, Panasonic took out stuff from the ES20 that used to be available in the ES10, but it looks like they have put them back on the ES15, which is good news!

Yes, the ES20 cannot pause during an FR recording. I tried all media (-R, +R, -RW, -RAM), none of them pause!

I just have to say that this thing is working like a champ so far. I'm very pleased with what this offers at the price I paid. For an "entry level" model, it does most of what I could possibly ask of it, and it does it pretty well. PQ is very good, remote and UI are upgraded and work well. I was also looking for the eject button on the remote, minor issue at best. I even finalized a few discs that were laying around from last month that I originally recorded on the ES20 I returned with no problem! Right now I think this is a keeper - Panasonic must have put some thought into this years model!

If you can, Please try & do some Dual Layer Disc recordings. Thanks again for all the info you have supplied so far.

Taking a quick look at one of the Top-Of-the-Line Panny models the EH75V I noticed that it also doesn't have a Remote "Open/Close" Button.

So I guess they eliminated it on ALL the new models :mad: & I'm surprised your older Panny remote worked it because if you notice in the Owners Manual that the codes you enter for controlling a TV are different than all the older Panny remotes so the new remote seems to be a completely New design.

just fyi from me: I have no, and likely wont be getting any DL discs.

I'm looking into buying this, the last time I checked, circuity city was sold out everywhere in NYC :confused: Panasonic seems to make top notch dvd recorders.

I'm surprised your older Panny remote worked

All functions of the old remote work identically to the new.

UI seems redesigned over 2005 model. Slightly more intuitive?Are there any sites that have screenshots of the interfaces from different DVD recorders?

I'm looking into buying this, the last time I checked, circuity city was sold out everywhere in NYC :confused: Panasonic seems to make top notch dvd recorders.

Besy Buy NYC has them, that is where I got mine!! Still shows in stock at most NYC locations today.

Honestly will not probably be doing any dual layer recording any time soon but the manual states you cannot record continuously from one layer to the next, the first layer has to be closed before you can use the next layer. Until the price of DL discs comes down to a more reasonable level, I'll just stick with single layer for now.

I appreciate the early reports on the ES15 and the comparisons to the ES20. But I've noticed that my local Costco is still selling ES10s, which don't seem to be available anywhere else. So, if you'll pardon a little digression here and based on the ES15 reports, since I'd like to pick up either the ES15 or the ES10 really soon, (today even) does anyone have an early opinion. Thanks.

How much is Costco asking for the ES10?

As for which model to buy I would probably opt for the new ES15 just because it adds +RW recording & DL recording but if you need more A/V Inputs then maybe the ES10 because it has 2 Rear A/V Inputs compared to the ES15 that only has one set.

Also the ES10 maybe better built because it was designed to sell at a higher price?

But I would'nt be afraid to buy either one, but I would stay away from the ES20 model just because you can't "Pause" when using the FR Recording mode.

... but if you need more A/V Inputs then maybe the ES10 because it has 2 Rear A/V Inputs compared to the ES15 that only has one set.

There is also a set of AV inputs in the front of the ES15, hidden behind the flip down door. This is also where the firewire input is, and a channel up/down selector is in there too!

The ES15 was advertised in the Sunday paper ad-insert for Best Buy, along with the ES-35V.

Did anyone test whether you can pause FR with the ES15? :-)

Yep forgot about the Front DVI Input for a Cancorder so if you need that go with the ES15.

So I guess it's kind of a trade-off DVI Input on the ES15 or Extra set of Rear A/V Inputs on the ES10.

The ES10 also has Front Inputs behind a flip down door.

ES10:
2 Rear Inputs with S-Video
1 Front Input with S-video

ES15
1 Rear Input with S-Video
1 Front Input with S-Video
1 Front DVI Camcorder Input

ncaahoops, Kents stated above that he was able to "Pause" it when using the FR Recording Mode using a Line Input.

So I would guess if you can do it using the Line Inputs you should also be able to do it using the Panny's tuner.

Did anyone test whether you can pause FR with the ES15? :-)

As Bil1313 stated, It works on the ES15 using my line inputs. Double checked.

I briefly checked out the FR pause function, worked fine!

I briefly checked out the FR pause function, worked fine!

Great news Kents and MrRetroGamer! Thanks for testing it out! I missed the earlier comment on the FR mode.

Pausing the FR mode is a very handy feature, especially if you like to put multiple titles (eg episodes of a TV show) at a quality level between 2-4hrs (eg 2:55 as Bill1313 mentioend in one of his previous posts), or recording a live movie/sporting event and pause-out the commercials/boring-stuff or simply recording something from a DVR/Tivo/VHS that you know how long it is going to be when pause-edited.

It looks like Panasonic did the right thing here, maybe they actually listened to user feedback - they restored the ES10 features in the ES15/ES25/ lineup!

I just got the ES15 yesterday, very nice design, build and the recording quality is superb, identical the original source. I will have to do more testing, so far it performs like a champ! My first ever dvd recorder :)

So, is there any way to make this unit show the time remaining on DVD-Video? I briefly had an ES-20, and couldn't find it then, either. I can only have this unit in the limited space in the cabinet and no standalone player.

So, is there any way to make this unit show the time remaining on DVD-Video? I briefly had an ES-20, and couldn't find it then, either. I can only have this unit in the limited space in the cabinet and no standalone player.

The ES20 for whatever crazy reason does not have a way to tell you remaining time. Not sure why they did that. Even my ancient Apex player has title and chapter remianing time.

But there is a workaround for the ES20 in finding how long a title is: Go to the last chapter by pressing 99 (for chapter 99) for finalized DVD-Video, and for unfinalized TimeSlip all the way to the end.

disc recognition is amazingly fast. In goes the tray, BAM.

Actually no. On the ES15 In goes the tray, wait up to 30 seconds Bam!!

Although, turn on from standby with a ram disc in the tray, BAM ready in a second or two.

...to augment my ES20.

The ES20 will move to a second TV at a later date.

My only application has been, and will continue to be, to use the "Copy To VCR" function for programs recorded on the Hard Drive of the Cablevision Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. The built-in Tuner of the ES15 will not be used.

I will continue to use DVD-R media (occasional DVD-RAM). I do not plan to use +Rs, +/- RWs, or DLs.

I'll add detailed comments in a future post; Initial reaction is Very Favorable :)

...to augment my ES20.

The ES20 will move to a second TV at a later date.

My only application has been, and will continue to be, to use the "Copy To VCR" function for programs recorded on the Hard Drive of the Cablevision Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. The built-in Tuner of the ES15 will not be used.

I will continue to use DVD-R media (occasional DVD-RAM). I do not plan to use +Rs, +/- RWs, or DLs.

I'll add detailed comments in a future post; Initial reaction is Very Favorable :)

Congratulations on your purchase! Looking forward to your detailed comments!

Does the "copy to VCR" function work in the background, while you are watching other things on the DVR?

If you are looking for some -RAMs, there seems to be a sale on DVD-RAMs at the Panasonic site, but they haven't shipped mine yet and the order status is confused. Details at the end of the "Media Deals this week" thread.

Congratulations on your purchase! Looking forward to your detailed comments!.

Thanks ncaahoops, I got it at a very competitive price.

Does the "copy to VCR" function work in the background, while you are watching other things on the DVR?

Yes, absolutely. The ES20 did also.

If you are looking for some -RAMs, there seems to be a sale on DVD-RAMs at the Panasonic site, but they haven't shipped mine yet and the order status is confused. Details at the end of the "Media Deals this week" thread.
I saw that, and I'll check it out.

The big news is that the 3 'coasters' I had which would not finalize (one Taiyo Yuden, one TDK Taiwan and one Sony Taiwan, all with the last recording in FR mode to fill the disk), of about 250+ disks (all recorded on the ES20,) have Successfully Finalized On The DMR-ES15. :)

That now makes 100% finalization of all disks I've recorded (!)

The ES15 has found 'more' recording space on all the in-process disks I recorded on the ES20.
That is, 3hrs recorded at LP on the ES20 shows 1 hr remaining. I put that same disk in the ES15, and it reports typically 1 hr and 9 minutes remaining. :D I believe this is why those disks that wouldn't finalize on the ES20 which have now finalized on the ES15 - the ES15 makes more efficient use of the recording space.

Recording quality on the ES15 appears a tad better than the ES20. I've only tried LP thus far, which is my favored recording speed since it records so well.
(Exception for HiDef originals on the harddrive: I usually record those at SP or XP - have recorded none of those yet on the ES15...)

More next week...

Yes, absolutely. The ES20 [could record a show coming off the DVR while you watch another] also.
How can this be? Which DVR and service are you with?

I only ask 'cause all three outputs (Composite/S-Video, Component, and I'm gonna assume HDMI) on the Motorola 6412/3 used by Cox all output the same thing, as far as I know.

How can this be? Which DVR and service are you with?

Refer to my post #35.

I only ask 'cause all three outputs (Composite/S-Video, Component, and I'm gonna assume HDMI) on the Motorola 6412/3 used by Cox all output the same thing, as far as I know.

I'm not familiar with the Motorola box, but the SA 8300HD has 2 tuners. It can output a program previously recorded on the harddrive via dedicated 'Copy to VCR' jacks (Composite or S-Video), while recording two programs simultaneously.

Or, I can watch any channel I wish, while the 'Copy to VCR' function and record one program to harddrive are active.

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm

Recording quality on the ES15 appears a tad better than the ES20. I've only tried LP thus far which is my favored recording speed.

Hopefully, this means that the es15 decreases it's resolution when recording more hours on a DVD-R like some of the earlier Panasonics.
Have you noticed whether the unit gets "hot" since it does not appear to have a cooling fan?

Hopefully, this means that the es15 decreases it's resolution when recording more hours on a DVD-R like some of the earlier Panasonics.
Have you noticed whether the unit gets "hot" since it does not appear to have a cooling fan?

The ES-15 (and all the 2006 Panasonic DVD recorders) maintains full resolution up to 4 hours (LP mode). This "enhanced" resolution out to 4 hours was begun in the 2005 Panasonics, and continues in the 2006 line.

Thanks ncaahoops, I got it at a very competitive price.

The big news is that the 3 'coasters' I had which would not finalize (one Taiyo Yuden, one TDK Taiwan and one Sony Taiwan, all with the last recording in FR mode to fill the disk), of about 250+ disks (all recorded on the ES20,) have Successfully Finalized On The DMR-ES15. :)

That now makes 100% finalization of all disks I've recorded (!)

The ES15 has found 'more' recording space on all the in-process disks I recorded on the ES20.
That is, 3hrs at LP on the ES20 shows 1 hr remaining. I put that same disk in the ES15 and it has typically 1 hr and 9 minutes remaining. :D

Recording quality on the ES15 appears a tad better than the ES20. I've only tried LP thus far which is my favored recording speed.

More next week...

This is very interesting stuff! When I do a post-mortem on all my DVDs with recording or finalization issues I'll make sure I check on the last-recording-was-FR issue you brought up! Whatever tweaks they made to the FR mode in the ES20 they must have introduced bugs which looks like they have been fixed with the 2006 models. This is good news! (I have started assembling all the DVDs with recording/finaliazation issues...)

It is also good news that you are able to actually finalize the refusing-to-finalize-ES20-DVDs with the ES15! And that it apparently allows you to use all of the DVD, not just 4-hours.

This also bodes well for the other 2006 Panasonic models since they presumably share compoments and firmware/software.

How can this be? Which DVR and service are you with?

I only ask 'cause all three outputs (Composite/S-Video, Component, and I'm gonna assume HDMI) on the Motorola 6412/3 used by Cox all output the same thing, as far as I know.

Unfortunately the Moto 6412 (I have that from Comcast) does not have a "Copy to VCR" feature. The only way to copy is playback and not touch any buttons otherwise everything gets recorded in the DVD.

It is a shame since the 6412 has all sorts of unused or unusable inputs and outputs that could have been used for a "Copy to VCR" feature instead :-(

If anyone has purchased this ES15 at Best Buy in the last few weeks, you might be entitled to go back to get a price match - BestBuy.Com has it now listed at $152.99, which is $17 less than what I paid when I purchased it about 10 days ago. Makes a sweet deal even better!

EDIT: Just to confirm, I got my price adjustment from Best Buy on this unit. No problem!

I've done about all the use-cases I typically can do on my ES15.

I'm convinced its a winner.

It *looks* to me like there's a sliver of unrecorded space on the DVD even when the ES15 reports zero remaining time.

This, and the fact that its been 100% successful at disc/title naming after I've allowed the recorder to use "all" the available space makes me wonder if the machine isn't holding back on a smidge of recording space to ensure proper finalization on the discs it records.

Of course, this would have little bearing on discs recorded on the ES20, which still are reported to finalize on the 15.

I've done about all the use-cases I typically can do on my ES15.

I'm convinced its a winner.

Agreed from what I've experienced thus far. I'm still probing the ES15's capabilities...



It *looks* to me like there's a sliver of unrecorded space on the DVD even when the ES15 reports zero remaining time.
This, and the fact that its been 100% successful at disc/title naming after I've allowed the recorder to use "all" the available space makes me wonder if the machine isn't holding back on a smidge of recording space to ensure proper finalization on the discs it records..

That just sounds like a smart design. This ES15 is clearly a winner at a bargain price.

Of course, this would have little bearing on discs recorded on the ES20, which still are reported to finalize on the 15.

Yes, the ES15 has managed to Finalize my three disks which were rendered 'unfinalizable' (did I just invent a word?) on the ES20 that recorded the data.

I've done about all the use-cases I typically can do on my ES15.

I'm convinced its a winner.

It *looks* to me like there's a sliver of unrecorded space on the DVD even when the ES15 reports zero remaining time.

This, and the fact that its been 100% successful at disc/title naming after I've allowed the recorder to use "all" the available space makes me wonder if the machine isn't holding back on a smidge of recording space to ensure proper finalization on the discs it records.

Of course, this would have little bearing on discs recorded on the ES20, which still are reported to finalize on the 15.

This is great news and it bodes well for the other 2006 Panasonic models! Thanks for letting us know!

What's the recorded video frame resolution of the ES15? Is it 720x480 full D1 like the ES20, or has Panasonic gone back to the "cropped" D1 format (704x480) it used in all the previous models?

not being pithy at all here gshelley61, but how would one know the answer to your question?

Is there a test, or a utility that examines the disc content?

Panasonic's web site describes it thusly ...

Linky (http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es15/high_picture_quality.html)

I can't understand where they're getting the "500 lines of horizontal resolution" from when the actual number (for maximum DVD resolution) is 720.

not being pithy at all here gshelley61, but how would one know the answer to your question?

Very easily.....if you have a software program like "PowerDVD" on your PC with a DVD-ROM Drive or Burner, of course.

You play the disc. Point anywhere on the picture with the mouse and right-click. Choose Configuration, then Information and it will tell you the dimensions.

TMPGEnc will tell you the resolution when you import a Title from the disc.

Thanx.

Wish I could help.

Kent

I've looked at the programs I've got and couldn't find any utility to describe the resolution.

(WinDVDPlayer and the basic Nero trial bundle)

I suggest gshelley61 might buy an ES15 ($170, 30 days refundable at BB or CC in the US) and provide the AVS Forum with the answer to his question.

I know I'm not gshelley61, but if I ever get around to buying one, I will provide any details relating to this and compare to the es20 and even my old e30. I would rather buy the recorder at a place like SAMS or Wal-Mart, but they're not carrying them now.

It seems like windvdplayer would have this detail. Anyone have PowerDVD out there with a DMR-ES15? :)

It seems like windvdplayer would have this detail. Anyone have PowerDVD out there with a DMR-ES15? :)

I just bought a 15 today myself. I also have powerdvd on my laptop. I'm taping csi right now. When it is done I'll finalize and take a look to see if I can find the info you are looking for. I'll post with what my disk reads with powerdvd.

I just bought a 15 today myself. I also have powerdvd on my laptop. I'm taping csi right now. When it is done I'll finalize and take a look to see if I can find the info you are looking for. I'll post with what my disk reads with powerdvd.

Looking forward to it. I'm sure it will be the same as the es20, but you never know. With the es15 able to do a better job at finalizing and having the ability to pause in FR mode, it keeps looking better with every post made by the current users.

Of course, one thing that still bugs me is, and has been brought up by others including myself (probably more than once).........why is there no cooling fan and a vent that appears to be made perfectly for a cooling fan? :confused: I observed one at CC , and I was quite impressed with the body style and remote.

Ok guys, keep bragging about your es15s :D :D

Seriously though, I may just have to get one because you guys keep tempting the poor es20 users. :p

Ok, under information it show 720x480 . Hope this helps you guys somewhat. I don't know alot about these dvrs but so far pretty sweet setup. I was using the old vcr method to record things but that finally fried. This dvr is completly new to me but like I said, so far so good. Its nice to be able to watch the Giants bullpen implode on themselves while taping CSI. Give up 9 runs and still win? How long is that going to last? Anyway back to the dvr. For $152 I think its a neat little toy.

Power DVD reports full D1 res at 720x480 on the discs I have made so far! After going through several players of various brands and prices in the past months, I do finally believe that this one is a WINNER!

Sounds good. I'll have to check one of these out...

It's good to know it's still 720x480. I don't know if there is any Simpsons fans out there, but I have noticed a BIG improvement in the quality of my recordings compared to the original VHS source. It appears that the es15 uses the same encoder, only more effeciently. On my recordings of VHS tape, I've notice that the fuzziness is removed, the picture appears to be more stable, the colors are more vibrant, and it seems to lessen the colors that bleed like reds. WalMart has it on their website, but I don't like to order something like that online. I'll wait until they get it in the store which shouldn't be too long. I noticed that they show the es20 as no longer available.

It's good to know it's still 720x480.

This is odd considering at least up until last year's models (e.g., the EH-50), the Panny recorders' max resolution was broadcast D1 (i.e., 704x480) not Full D1. Until I have a chance to verify this on my new EH75V using Panasonic's Movie Album Software and/or TDA Pro, I have to assume either (a) this is erroneous info or (b) for some unkown reason, Panny suddenly decided to change their encoder to provide full D1 resolution. Strange...as this could possibly set up a compatibility issue with previous models.

Vic

Recorded in 2H mode on my ES15:
Starting playback...
VDec: vo config request - 720 x 480 (preferred colorspace: Planar YV12)
VDec: using Planar YV12 as output csp (no 0)
Movie-Aspect is 1.33:1 - prescaling to correct movie aspect.
VO: [xv] 720x480 => 720x540 Planar YV12
1H mode is the same. I don't have a 4+ H recording handy.

This is odd considering at least up until last year's models (e.g., the EH-50), the Panny recorders' max resolution was broadcast D1 (i.e., 704x480) not Full D1. Until I have a chance to verify this on my new EH75V using Panasonic's Movie Album Software and/or TDA Pro, I have to assume either (a) this is erroneous info or (b) for some unkown reason, Panny suddenly decided to change their encoder to provide full D1 resolution. Strange...as this could possibly set up a compatibility issue with previous models.

Vic

This is what is reported by various software on discs that the ES15 created - and more than one person has confirmed it already. How would this be "erroneous"?

If I remember right? When Panny came out with the newer models in the middle of last year (Think ES20) they switched from using their Own Chip to the LSI Chip which had "Full Resolution."

The EH50 was a beginning of the year model & has the older Panny Chip in it that the older ES10 & etc also used.

Maybe Panasonic is now using the LSI Chip with the "Full Resolution" across the whole model line this year?

This is what is reported by various software on discs that the ES15 created - and more than one person has confirmed it already. How would this be "erroneous"?

Agree its highly unlikely that several s/w packages and people are reporting erroneous results, but until I confirm it myself with one of the new recorders and the s/w that I am familiar with (TDA), this information is suspect based on Panny's track record of providing 704x480 max resultion (I own various generations of Panny DVDRs including the first generation E10, so I have a little corporate knowledge in this area). However, Bill1313's post above may provide the answer (including why I did not see this on the EH50). This may make the new DVD-RAM recordings incompatible with Panasonic's MovieAlbum software which appears to have a maximum transcoding resolution preset of 704x480. Agree that other than the potential compatibility issues with legacy tools/recorders, this is indeed good news. It will be interesting to see if the new Panny HDD recorders with the higher full D1 resolution (if true) play nice with the older Panny HDD recorders with Broadcast D1.

For example, Houston Guy confirmed that the ES15 does not create "high speed dubbing" compatible recordings for the HDD recorders but this has not been tested to my knowledge with a 2006 vintage Panny HDD recorder. I will fully test my new EH75's (80GB HDD) compatiblity with the older Panny HDD recorders wrt to mixing full res recordings and high speed dub compatibility this weekend and report my results. It's been awhile since Panny has put something out that has got me intersted in testing again. Tired of reading about TVGOS functionality issues.

Regards,
Vic

This may make the new DVD-RAM recordings incompatible with Panasonic's MovieAlbum software which appears to have a maximum transcoding resolution preset of 704x480.

It will also play havoc with TDA if you are attempting to combine segments within a single title culled from recordings on both current and legacy Panasonic models.

Agree its highly unlikely that several s/w packages and people are reporting erroneous results, but until I confirm it myself with one of the new recorders and the s/w that I am familiar with (TDA), this information is suspect based on Panny's track record of providing 704x480 max resultion (I own various generations of Panny DVDRs including the first generation E10, so I have a little corporate knowledge in this area). However, Bill1313's post above may provide the answer (including why I did not see this on the EH50). This may make the new DVD-RAM recordings incompatible with Panasonic's MovieAlbum software which appears to have a maximum transcoding resolution preset of 704x480. Agree that other than the potential compatibility issues with legacy tools/recorders, this is indeed good news. It will be interesting to see if the new Panny HDD recorders with the higher full D1 resolution (if true) play nice with the older Panny HDD recorders with Broadcast D1.

For example, Houston Guy confirmed that the ES15 does not create "high speed dubbing" compatible recordings for the HDD recorders but this has not been tested to my knowledge with a 2006 vintage Panny HDD recorder. I will fully test my new EH75's (80GB HDD) compatiblity with the older Panny HDD recorders wrt to mixing full res recordings and high speed dub compatibility this weekend and report my results. It's been awhile since Panny has put something out that has got me intersted in testing again. Tired of reading about TVGOS functionality issues.

Regards,
Vic
Vic I went right to your post- there is no doubt in my testing that the new non-HDD's 2006 by Panny are the same as 2005 on DVD-RAM's- THEY WILL NOT reproduce a lossless dub DVD-R from 2003-2005 Panny HDDS- Now, as to 2006 Panny HDD units -As you said, is unknown, and I am glad you are testing. I cannot imagine Panny changing this but anything is possible- as far as full rez ,we also await your results.. Good to hear from you, friend. Your expertise is greatly respected.

Until I have a chance to verify this on my new EH75V using Panasonic's Movie Album Software and/or TDA Pro, I have to assume either (a) this is erroneous info or (b) for some unkown reason, Panny suddenly decided to change their encoder to provide full D1 resolution. Strange...as this could possibly set up a compatibility issue with previous models.

APPARENTLY there is now a Version 4.1 of Movie Album Pro

http://panasonic.jp/support/software/dvdma/index.html

NOTE: Two different versions... 4.1 and 4.1 CPRM

Now, I gotta finger out how to get a copy... in english.

I can't understand where they're getting the "500 lines of horizontal resolution" from when the actual number (for maximum DVD resolution) is 720.
They're using the old TV lines or TVL method. For horizontal resolutions, TVL = number of pixels * 3 / 4. 720 * 3 / 4 = 540. See this link for more information:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.4.1

Ron

If I remember right? When Panny came out with the newer models in the middle of last year (Think ES20) they switched from using their Own Chip to the LSI Chip which had "Full Resolution."

The EH50 was a beginning of the year model & has the older Panny Chip in it that the older ES10 & etc also used.

Maybe Panasonic is now using the LSI Chip with the "Full Resolution" across the whole model line this year?
Only the ES-20 and the ES-40V use the LSI Logic chip.

Ron

Londo,

If you get your hands on a copy of 4.1 let me know!!!!!

Ron,

Thanks for the info re: the Panny LSI models

HG,

Thanks for the post and ES15 high speed dub compatiblity info.

Jeff,

I'll definitely test TDA - see below.

Looks like we got a real mystery on our hands and I'll get to testing the EH75V this weekend. I intend to test:

Verification of Full D1 resolution. if confirmed the EH75V records in full D1, then proceed to...

Compatibility of Full D1 and Broadcast D1 recordings on the same DVD-RAM between HDD recorders (including HS dubbing compatibility between recorders). Compatibility of the same "mix" disc with Movie Album 3.1 and TDA including attempts to "re-combine" clips using MovieAlbum.

Anything else you AVS forum guys and gals come up with. I'm taking requests...

I'll start a new thread once I have some results.

I'm going to get a 15 panny very soon myself.

Londo,

If you get your hands on a copy of 4.1 let me know!!!!!

Ron,

Thanks for the info re: the Panny LSI models

HG,

Thanks for the post and ES15 high speed dub compatiblity info.

Jeff,

I'll definitely test TDA - see below.

Looks like we got a real mystery on our hands and I'll get to testing the EH75V this weekend. I intend to test:

Verification of Full D1 resolution. if confirmed the EH75V records in full D1, then proceed to...

Compatibility of Full D1 and Broadcast D1 recordings on the same DVD-RAM between HDD recorders (including HS dubbing compatibility between recorders). Compatibility of the same "mix" disc with Movie Album 3.1 and TDA including attempts to "re-combine" clips using MovieAlbum.

Anything else you AVS forum guys and gals come up with. I'm taking requests...

I'll start a new thread once I have some results.

Interesting stuff! Looking forward to the results!

Londo,

If you get your hands on a copy of 4.1 let me know!!!!!.

Well, it appears that the 4.1 is packed with the new LF-M821 (DVD-RAM, DVD±R, DVD±R DL, DVD±RW) RETAIL drive, but all I can find is OEM (ie. nekkid) packages here in the states.

It also APPEARS to be packed with Panasonic DVD-RAM CAMCORDERS.

I'm still hunting .... if anyone knows a Panny rep that they can contact, this could become an important issue ('speciallly the CPRM aspect).

Londo,

I'm also a heavy user of DVD Movie Album SE that came bundled with a Panasonic external RAM writer. I would also be very interested in any information on a newer version.

vferrari and kelson : Would either of you be so kind to tell me what advantages ( if any ) there are to using MovieAlbum SE 3. Two years or so ago, I bought a Panasonic external burner, and MovieAlbum was one of the softwares bundled with the burner. I did not have much luck with the Gold's software, and I really did not delve deeply at all into Movie Album SE.

I have been using TMPGE 3.0 Express to encode, and TMPGE DVD Author 1.5 with Sound Plugin very happily for almost the past two years. You fellows now have me curious about MovieAlbum SE. - thanks

What's the best possible way to get a signal from a digital cable box (that does not have rf out) to my panny 15. The cable box does have hdmi, usb, rgb, and IEEE 1394 firewire output. I suspect it would be via the firewire output to the front of the panny 15 recorder. But would like input from someone who is not a newbie like myself. Thanks.

S-Video. The FireWire input on DVD Recorders is for DV format video, not MPEG Transport Stream like comes out of STBs.

Good Morning All,

Just joined this forum, it looks like a fun place.

Panasonic are about to release the ES15 in Australia, and on paper (and from reading here) it looks the goods.

Theer are a couple of points from the Manual that I would like clarified, please, if someone can spare the time.

After the instructions about finalising discs, there is a note that there will be a pause of several seconds between titles and chapters. Surely this can't mean a pause of several seconds after every 5 minutes (1 chapter)?

There is also mention that for disc and title names you are allowed 40/44 characters, but that is followed by a note that if you use a long name, it may not all be displayed. This sounds a bit ambiguous. Surely if you have 44 characters, you have 44 characters?

I am a bit touchy about this as my main use will be to transfer DV from a handycam via firewire and I want these functions to work as published. Some units I have had (LG DR7922W and Sony RDR GX210 produce good discs, but the naming functions fail after finalisation of a -R disc.

I would certainly appreciate any information you can supply. Thanks in advance.

Rob.

There's no pause at Chapters. Not sure why they said there was.

Regarding long Disc Titles, I can't be sure, I have the Panasonic E85H and I've yet to push the limits on Disc Titles. I have seen truncation on the names of individual titles on the disc though, where they are shown on the thumbnails. I can't imagine that a 40-character limit (or so) is a concern to you though, are you not free to name them something reasonably short (20 characters usually suffices for me) or is there some reason why you must have the capability to give them very long names? That would be odd.

And you lost me with this one: "...but the naming functions fail after finalisation of a -R disc."

Hi, you're up early,

I probably sound a trifle paranoid, because on the Sony and LG recorders I've had, after finalisation, there is only about 10 characters showing whereas before finalisation there were 21. Also, with the LG and Sony units the disc name disappears entirly after finalisation, and the thumbnails either disappear, freeze, or won't allow you to toggle between pages if you have more than 1 page.

It really bugs me when something doesn't work the way it should. (you probably noticed)

Thanks for your quick response.

Rob.

Also, with the LG and Sony units the disc name disappears entirly after finalisation, and the thumbnails either disappear, freeze, or won't allow you to toggle between pages if you have more than 1 page.That's just plain broken. I have no such problems with my E85H. I've recorded hundreds of discs on it. It's a solid unit, I did have some problems early on that were media related (didn't like Maxell), but I'm using Sony 16x now on it and haven't had a problem in over 50 discs.

Just a follow up. All the new Panasonic DVD recorders are based on their new chip, the MN2DS0015DB (also known as the MV3). This chip integrates 1394 (no more Panasonic recorders without DV input) and the analog front-end controller for the optical drive.

The ES10 was an MV2 design.

Ron

Hi Bobkart,

Agreed, and if pressed, the manufacturers involved will concede that there is a problem but that hasn't stopped them selling loads of these machines.

This is the reason that I am trying to confirm how the ES15 performs with real people.

Is anyone able to comment on the disc and title naming functions of the ES15, please?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob.

Is anyone able to comment on the disc and title naming functions of the ES15, please?
Yeah.

I use my ES15 to make hard recordings of stuff off the DVR. I name discs, titles, and change the thumbnails of every disc I create (some 10 or so, so far).

... what's your question?

Yeah.

I use my ES15 to make hard recordings of stuff off the DVR. I name discs, titles, and change the thumbnails of every disc I create (some 10 or so, so far).

... what's your question?

Is there a way to erase the title name with one button press? With the ES20 I have to delete each character one at a time.

Same one-at-a-time method with the pause button using the 15.

But now you can define and store phrases that can be recalled for titling.

Same one-at-a-time method with the pause button using the 15.

But now you can define and store phrases that can be recalled for titling.

Yes, the stored phrases should be very handy, compared to typing everything everytmie with the ES20 :-)

I used to use the Pause button but now I find the left arrow move convinient when I delete the title.

It would have been so easy for them to just add an extra button that says "Erase Title Name", and even ask for confirmation if they were worried about accidental deletions :-) But only ask once!

Hi kcrudup,

My question is does the disc label, title name and thumbnail navigation on a DVD-R recorded in Video mode work as per the instruction manual after finalisation?

I have had some negative experiences with Sony and LG dvdrs, where the above mentioned functions can be set up and work ok prior to finalisation, but after finalisation the disc label disappears, the title name is not shown fully and the thumbnails either don't display or freeze and don't allow you to toggle between pages if there is more than 1 page of thumbnails.

The ES15 appears to be the answer to my problems, but it is not released in Australia as yet and I am trying to get the opinions of those who have owned and operated it, on any aspect of its operation.

I would appreciate any feedback you are able to give. Thanks in advance.

Rob.

My question is does the disc label, title name and thumbnail navigation on a DVD-R recorded in Video mode work as per the instruction manual after finalisation?


I don't own an es15 (I own an es20 at the moment which is basically the same with the exception of some new added functions) and I can assure you that the menu, title name, and thumbnail navigation works perfectly on all 5 of the DVD players in my house once the DVD-R/+R is finalized.

Is there a way to erase the title name with one button press?
Not that I could see.

... I can assure you that the menu, title name, and thumbnail navigation works perfectly on all 5 of the DVD players in my house once the DVD-R/+R is finalized.
Same for the ES15.

Oh, and the title/thumbnail management on the Magnavox I'm replacing the ES15 with (see reviews in this forum, I don't remember the model name offhand) works perfectly, too.

Thank you gentlemen,

That gives me greater confidence to pursue the ES15 when it is released here in the next few weeks.

By the way, is the tuner in the US version of the ES15 analogue or digital, please? This may sound like a dumb question, but all DVDRs sold in Australia have analogue tuners only. Panasonic have a ticket price of AU$374 on the ES15. What would be a typical price in the US, please? Are there any 'red flags'/deficiencies in the ES15, in your opinions? All the comments I have seen in this forum seem very positive. My main use will be to transfer DV from a handycam via firewire (grandchildren, you see lol).

Thanks again.

Rob.

No digital tuners in DVD Recorders yet . . .

Thanks, I guess that means we aren't as far behind as I thought

Panasonic have a ticket price of AU$374 on the ES15. What would be a typical price in the US, please?
Rob.

MSRP is $169 USD. After conversion, your price is well over $100 USD higher than US MSRP! :eek: Wonder why there is so much of a discrepancy? :confused:

I have just picked up the ES15 at BB as well. This is my first DVD recorder and I am excited. I still don't know if I will keep this one, I was waiting for the ES25 to come out with upconversion. But anyway, I needed a new toy to play with in the meantime!

This is probably a newbie question but here goes.

I have it hooked up to my Dish Network VIP 622 box, when recording to DVD a SD show, when I play it back on the ES15 or my laptop, or other DVD players, the picture looks thin and skinny, not filling the screen at all. I have my ES15 settings on 4:3, stretch but not sure what else I need to do. Feeding a HD show fills the screen ok, seems cropped but ok otherwise.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

I have just picked up the ES15 at BB as well. This is my first DVD recorder and I am excited. I still don't know if I will keep this one, I was waiting for the ES25 to come out with upconversion. But anyway, I needed a new toy to play with in the meantime!

This is probably a newbie question but here goes.

I have it hooked up to my Dish Network VIP 622 box, when recording to DVD a SD show, when I play it back on the ES15 or my laptop, or other DVD players, the picture looks thin and skinny, not filling the screen at all. I have my ES15 settings on 4:3, stretch but not sure what else I need to do. Feeding a HD show fills the screen ok, seems cropped but ok otherwise.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

I'm going to take a stab, not sure but perhaps you need to adjust a setting on your Dish Network box - sounds like you are outputting a signal that the recorder doesn't like?

Now kind of off the previous topics with this machine but does anybody know the remote code #'s for the 15? I called customer service and that was a waste of time. I'm trying to get the player to work with my Toshiba remote. The codes that the toshiba suggests are something like 045 - 050 . But those are for panasonic dvd players. They don't list any suggestions for a panasonic dvr. I've tried panasonic vcr, dvd and satellite codes but nothing works so far. I also have been all over remotecentral site and with no luck. I have a pronto pro downstairs and I could program that in learn mode but don't want to have to carry the remote up and down the stairs to what ever tv I might happen to be watching. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Did anyone try making an FR recording that crosses over midnight? The ES20 had a bug that if you cross over midnight, FR mode would use the lowest possible quality (8hr+ EP) regardless of the duration of the recording. For example, if you start a 90 minute recording at 11:30pm to finish at 1am, it should be at real nice quality. But with the ES20 bug it was recorded at 8hr EP and the remaining free space was consistent with that.

If anyone tries this, it is maybe a good idea to use a -RAM or -RW/+RW...

I am going to buy my first DVD recorder. Right now, I own a HTPC with MCE 2K5 software. Recording TV is ok but it lose the closed caption after I convert the wmv file and burn it to the DVD.

Does these DVD recorders keep the closed caption on the TV shows when it records to the local DVD discs (any type) ???

Many thanks.

Yes, CC is retained.

Has anyone tried to read a DVD-RAM disc recorded on an ES-15 with a PC? I have an ES-15 and a PC with a new NEC 4570 DVD Drive (DVD-RAM compatible) and so far it has not worked.

Now, there are a lot things that are new (at least to me) in this scenario and I only have the DVD-RAM disc that came with the ES-15 to experiment with. (More RAM discs here this week.) The NEC works fine for all other DVD formats (+R, -R, etc.) and I can retrieve media information from the RAM disc using various utilities but it claims that the RAM disc data is in an unreadable format. I then tried to format the RAM disc using the PC/NEC as UDF 1.5 and 2.0 and both failed at about 98%. The ES-15 works fine with this same disc although I have not filled it to the 98% level yet.

Interestingly, the ES-15 will format this disc in about a minute (must be a quick format) and the PC takes about 35 minutes to get to 98%. You can see by looking at the disc that the PC is actually writing the whole surface.

Comments, anyone?

I've been meaning to put one of the ES15's DVD-RAMs into my NEC 4550 drive to see what it's about with a bitwise disk editor, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

That being said, since the only compatibility they even have to try and design to is other Panasonic units, I'll bet the DVD-RAM format is entirely proprietary.

Well, at least some of the earlier Panasonic-written DVD-RAMs have been readable by PC. Panasonic does provide Windows drivers on their website intended for use with their own PC drives.

Link to Panasonic Driver Site (http://panasonic.co.jp/psec/support/dvdram/lim/eoem/index.html)

These are necessary since only the later versions of Windows support DVD-RAM natively and some only to the point of reading them if formatted with the FAT-32 file system. Anything stored on DVD-RAM relating to video would likely use the UDF 2.0 file system and Panasonic adds this capability to Windows with it's own drivers. However, since Panasonic originated the DVD-RAM media and drives, any other vendor producing DVD-RAM compatible PC drives has stayed pretty true to Panasonic's implementation. Because of this, the Panasonic drivers generally work with other vendor's hardware.

Having said that, I sure would be interested to know what an ES-15 formatted DVD-RAM disk does in an NEC-4550 drive. I'm hoping I have nothing more serious wrong than a bad media. :)

I'll know something tomorrow when I get to that equipment. Ping this thread again late tomorrow night.

Has anyone tried to read a DVD-RAM disc recorded on an ES-15 with a PC? I have an ES-15 and a PC with a new NEC 4570 DVD Drive (DVD-RAM compatible) and so far it has not worked.

Now, there are a lot things that are new (at least to me) in this scenario and I only have the DVD-RAM disc that came with the ES-15 to experiment with. (More RAM discs here this week.) The NEC works fine for all other DVD formats (+R, -R, etc.) and I can retrieve media information from the RAM disc using various utilities but it claims that the RAM disc data is in an unreadable format. I then tried to format the RAM disc using the PC/NEC as UDF 1.5 and 2.0 and both failed at about 98%. The ES-15 works fine with this same disc although I have not filled it to the 98% level yet.

Interestingly, the ES-15 will format this disc in about a minute (must be a quick format) and the PC takes about 35 minutes to get to 98%. You can see by looking at the disc that the PC is actually writing the whole surface.

Comments, anyone?

RAM discs are written in VR mode. The VR mode file structure differs from DVD-Video mode to enable certain functionality such as on-disc editing capability and playback features such as chasing play/time slip, on-disc chapter marker, thumbnail, and titling capaiblity. A VR mode disc is comprised of a DVD_RTAV folder that contains three files: the ifo file and its backup (.bup) that contains information about the vro file including titles, marker pointers, and thumbnail info and the vro file itself that is a single contiguous DVD compliant mpeg2 video file with either a multiplexed PCM or AC3 Dolby Digital 2.0 audio stream (this is a single file regardless of whether you have a single or multiple programs recorded on the RAM, the ifo file takes care of the indexing). Note that this differs from a DVD-Video mode disc in that the video/audio streams are contained in multiple 1GB vob files. If you have native UDF 2.0 read capability (e.g., WinXP SP2) or a UDF packet writing program, then you should be able to drag and drop the entire DVD_RTAV folder to your PC's HDD and manipulate it from there. In order to manipulate the file you need either an mpeg2 editing program or a DVD authoring program (or combination of the two) that has native VR mode support. Popular programs that have this support include: Womble, Panasonic's DVD-MovieAlbum, TMPGenc DVD Author, Ulead's VideoStudio 7 or DVD MovieMaker 3 or greater, Intervideo's DVD Copy 4. Programs that can typically handle on DVD-Video mode discs/files generally choke on VR mode discs/files. Alternately, you can simply rename the vro extension to mpg and import the frenamed file into a standard mpeg2 editing/authoring program but you may have problems if you have more than one program in the vro file since you no longer have the benefit of the ifo index plus you lose any chapter markers you manually placed.

Personally, I use Panasonic's DVD-MovieAlbum program for editing, titling etc. on the DVD-RAM and then I import the edited DVD_RTAV folder from the HDD into TMPGenc DVD Author (TDA) which can read the VR mode file structure natively including any program titles and/or chapter stops I've inserted on the RAM using the deck or the MovieAlbum software. I do this so that I can add more sophisticated titles and auto chapter stops before I author a final DVD-Video mode DVD-R (vs. simply burning a DVD-R using the deck with its rudimentary menus etc...).

I've been meaning to put one of the ES15's DVD-RAMs into my NEC 4550 drive to see what it's about with a bitwise disk editor, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

That being said, since the only compatibility they even have to try and design to is other Panasonic units, I'll bet the DVD-RAM format is entirely proprietary.

Well, don't confuse the media (DVD-RAM) with the file structure (VR mode). VR mode is not Panasonic proprietary so as long as it conforms to UDF standards it doesn't nmatter if its written to a DVD-RAM or DVD-RW, it should be readable (as long as the drive is compatible). VR mode is a "universal" on-disc DVD editing/playback mode developed by the original DVD forum/consortium and is supported on both DVD-RAM and DVD-RW rewriteable discs. It was developed before the DVD+ consortium came up with DVD+R/+RW as a competing medium/format due to greed resulting in the pathetic/confusing/detrimental to the consumer DVD format wars that appear to be continuing into the HD realm with HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray. Simply disgusting that these manufacturers can't come up with a universal format. [/end rant] Anyway, VR mode not Pansonic proprietary even if it seems that way because of DVD-RAM's limited compatibility (although Toshiba, Samsung, JVC, and now Pioneer support DVD-RAM recording) and the fact that for video recording purposes, unlike DVD-RW, it cannot be recorded in Video mode (you could drop a VIDEO MODE file structure onto the RAM but not program or player will be able to read/play it as a video disc). Like I said, VR mode is universal among the "original" rewriteable disc formats -RAM/-RW. Panasonic continues lead the field when it comes to standalone home DVD recorders and they also continue to refine/improve their product line with each subsequent generation. My only real gripe with them is their stubborness in supporting VR mode recording to DVD-RW (though they do support VR mode playback and video mode recording to DVD-RW).

HTH,
Vic

If you have native UDF 2.0 read capability (e.g., WinXP SP2) or a UDF packet writing program, then you should be able to drag and drop the entire DVD_RTAV folder to your PC's HDD and manipulate it from there.

Your explanation reinforces what I thought I understood about the process. Thank-you!

I do have XP SP2 and expected to be able to read a UDF 2.0 disc with a DVD-RAM compatible drive. The error occurs as soon as I try to open the disc in XP. Some thing about incorrect media or invalid or corrupt format. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the fact that when I format the DVD-RAM disc under XP and it fails at 98% has me suspecting the media. However, I don't presently have any other DVD-RAM media to verify that theory. That's why I was curious if anyone else had successfully read a DVD-RAM written specifically by an ES-15 on a PC.

What exactly do you mean by "open the disc", do you mean open a file or folder on the disc? Have you attempted to simply drag and drop the DVD_RTAV folder to the HDD and it failed? If you don't have a VR mode compatible application on your computer, WinXP alone will neither recognize nor be able to open the vro file. You will merely be able to "see" the individual files in the folder, rename them, or move them around and that's about it. Otherwise, WinXP alone won't know what to do with them and will not recognize them. This is not the fault of either WinXP or the disc, but is expected behavior. If you cannot open the DVD_RTAV folder to reveal the individual files within, then you may have a problem. It's not clear me, however, to understand what you are doing simply from the description "open the disc", can you be more specific?

Vic

You will merely be able to "see" the individual files in the folder, rename them, or move them around and that's about it.

I don't even get to this point. If I double-click "My Computer" and then right-click on the DVD Drive and choose "Open" or "Explore" the following error message appears:

"Windows cannot read from this disk. The disk might be corrupted, or it could be using a format that is not compatible with Windows."

Something else I just noticed is that when the DVD drive is empty it appears in "My Computer" as "DVD-RAM Drive (F: )". When I insert a DVD-RAM disc in the drive the label changes to "CD Drive (F: )". May be of no significance.

Even though I can't open the disc, I can use DVDInfoPro to view the media info like so:

Media Information
Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
MediaCode MatsushitaElectricIndustrialCO.,LTD.M01J3004
Book Type DVD-RAM
Media Type DVD-RAM
Available Write Descriptor zCLV 3.0x 4155KBps
Available Write Descriptor zCLV 2.0x 2770KBps
Data area starting sector 31000h
Linear Density 0.280um/bit
Track Density 0.615um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000220 0C 09 0A 0B 0B 09 0A 0A 0B 4D 61 74 73 75 73 68 .........Matsush
00000230 69 74 61 20 45 6C 65 63 74 72 69 63 20 49 6E 64 ita Electric Ind
00000240 75 73 74 72 69 61 6C 20 43 4F 2E 2C 4C 54 44 2E ustrial CO.,LTD.
00000250 0D 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 4D 30 31 4A 33 30 30 . M01J300
00000260 34 0D 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 01 82 00 6A 2D 2D 4. ....j--


So, the drive has some ability to read the disc but not as much as I expected. I should also mention that the PC is running XP Media Center Edition Version 2002, Service Pack 2.

I have a Samsung DVD-ROM drive on the PC with WinXP Pro. I am able to get the recordings to play using the PowerDVD program that came with the drive. I haven't tried those from an es15 though.

What packet writing software do you have installed (e.g., InCD sometimes causes conflicts)? The drive name issue sounds like there is a potential conflict issue, ideally, if properly formatted (UDF or even FAT32) the DVD-RAM should appear to WinXP just like a HDD (albeit a slow one). Did you reformat the drive in the ES15 after the failed attempt to format on the PC (note that the file ifo, bup, vro file structure will still exist after formatting on the deck even if no video has been recorded to the RAM)?

yesterday I bought the ES15 myself from BB. So far I'm very happy with it, I specially love the recording quality in LP mode, the full 720X480 resolution at that speed sure makes a big difference. Does anybody know how to check the firmware version? Do I need to upgrade it?

What packet writing software do you have installed (e.g., InCD sometimes causes conflicts)?
No InCD, but it does have the Dell version of Sonic DLA. I've deactivated it for the NEC DVD-RAM drive.
The drive name issue sounds like there is a potential conflict issue, ideally, if properly formatted (UDF or even FAT32) the DVD-RAM should appear to WinXP just like a HDD (albeit a slow one).
I investigated this a little more. With a music CD in the drive the name becomes "Audio CD (F: ). With a commercial DVD the name becomes "Title_of_the_DVD (F: )". I think when the drive senses the presence of a disk but can't otherwise determine specifically what kind of disc it might be it defaults to the lowest common denominator - "CD Drive (F: )".
Did you reformat the drive in the ES15 after the failed attempt to format on the PC (note that the file ifo, bup, vro file structure will still exist after formatting on the deck even if no video has been recorded to the RAM)?
Yes, I did reformat the DVD-RAM on the ES-15 and it worked fine. The original files were gone since the PC format actually over-wrote 98% of the DVD-RAM during it's 35 minute duration. Since the ES-15 format takes less than a minute I don't think it would find a media defect unless it was at the very beginning of the media. The PC format failed at 98% and I haven't written data out to that point with the ES-15 to know how it reacts at 98%.

MSRP is $169 USD. After conversion, your price is well over $100 USD higher than US MSRP! :eek: Wonder why there is so much of a discrepancy? :confused:

Not sure, but the usual game played by the HT retailers over here is to put on a high ticket price then magically slice $$$ off it if you 'pay cash'. If you are silly enough to just walk in and pay the ticket price, then that's a bonus for the retailer.

Rob. :confused:

FWIW, I was able to play back the .../DVD_RTAV/VR_MOVIE.VRO file I'd recorded onto a DVD-RAM using "MPlayer" on Linux.

yesterday I bought the ES15 myself from BB. So far I'm very happy with it, I specially love the recording quality in LP mode, the full 720X480 resolution at that speed sure makes a big difference. Does anybody know how to check the firmware version? Do I need to upgrade it?

The ES-15 just came out. I think it's a bit early to be looking for a firmware update. If you are happy with it, just enjoy it. ;)

There is a way to get the firmware version on the 2005 and earlier Panasonics but that doesn't seem to be very helpful since it appears to be a very high level version number.

Darn, you guys have me all excited about the es15...I have an es20 that just came in from Amazon last week and now it looks like I'll just ship it back for a refund and get the es15 instead...sure wish the DL discs would come down in price!

I'd order it from CC for $155 right now but they only have silver and all my components are black, sigh.

Darn, you guys have me all excited about the es15
This forum has that effect on people. Panasonic owes us for promoting their product. I think a $50 rebate sounds fair.
Amazon last week and now it looks like I'll just ship it back for a refund and get the es15 instead...sure wish the DL discs would come down in price!
Do it man, you won't regret it. While the es20 is an excellent recorder, the es15 is that and much more. DL discs will come down. My prediction is about 50 cents each by this fall or less, but they are getting more affordable if purchased in bulk.

I'd order it from CC for $155 right now but they only have silver and all my components are black, sigh.
To bad were not living in the 90s. Back then, black was dominant and silver was rare. I remember buying my ProScan DVD player in 1999, and I thought it was so cool because it was silver/grey. It was $259 which was considered cheap back then. I still have it and it's my preferred DVD player because the layer switch never gets noticed on it when watching movies (flawless).

I had a Samsung R-130 and decided to take it back and get the ES15, so far I love it, but one thing I can't get it to do which I thought it would, is to save the spot where I left off on a dvd (I mean it will the one that is in the tray unless I eject it) but from what I read on the net (I think I was on the panasonic canadian website though) it says about remembering the spot for up to 5 dvd's.

I am constantly changing dvd's from kids movies to others and I hate losing my spot. Are your all's just saving the one dvd spot?

Thanks

I had a Samsung R-130 and decided to take it back and get the ES15, so far I love it, but one thing I can't get it to do which I thought it would, is to save the spot where I left off on a dvd (I mean it will the one that is in the tray unless I eject it) but from what I read on the net (I think I was on the panasonic canadian website though) it says about remembering the spot for up to 5 dvd's.

I am constantly changing dvd's from kids movies to others and I hate losing my spot. Are your all's just saving the one dvd spot?

Thanks
I do not have the Panasonic but I noticed something similar with my Pioneer burned DVDs. The Pioneer always burns the same DVD volume name on every DVD. I thought it would take the Title I put in for the DVD Menu and use that but it does not. So consequently the DVD player cannot tell the difference between the DVDs.

I first noticed this on PowerDVD when it asked me if I wanted to resume playback on a DVD I had never used before.

Maybe the same on the Panny.

I do not have the Panasonic but I noticed something similar with my Pioneer burned DVDs. The Pioneer always burns the same DVD volume name on every DVD. I thought it would take the Title I put in for the DVD Menu and use that but it does not. So consequently the DVD player cannot tell the difference between the DVDs.

I first noticed this on PowerDVD when it asked me if I wanted to resume playback on a DVD I had never used before.

Maybe the same on the Panny.

No these volumes are different (they are backups of movies that I made on my PC). Good thought though, I can see how that could be a problem though!

I am constantly changing dvd's from kids movies to others and I hate losing my spot. Are your all's just saving the one dvd spot?

I'm surprised to hear that, my cheapo $60 Panasonic s27 player lets you "mark" a spot on the DVD to return to later, and I think it remembers up to 10 discs at a time.

I'm surprised to hear that, my cheapo $60 Panasonic s27 player lets you "mark" a spot on the DVD to return to later, and I think it remembers up to 10 discs at a time.

Exactly!! my old pioneer ($69 walmart) from like 2 years ago has a "resume" mode for 5 or so discs too.

Here's the cut and paste from panasonic.ca :

Position Memory
By memorizing a desired location and enabling playback from that location, Position Memory lets you eject a disc part way through a movie and then resume viewing from the same point later. This handy function remembers the location where viewing was interrupted for up to five discs, which is a real convenience in a family with a wide range of tastes in entertainment.
----> end of paste

Maybe the models are different in Canada vs US? I stumbled into the Canadian website when I was searching for info on the ES15 (I actually didn't even realize it wasn't the US site).

Ok, when I return my Cyberhome1600 DVR and pick up the ES15 it'sll be my 3rd DVR this week. The LiteOn was slow, and only recorded VR. The Cyberhome failed 2 out of 3 timed recordings when I tested recording and other members say it's a matter of time before it quits altogether. So now I have my eyes set on this one. The BB website lists it at Sale: $159.99 but shows $169.99 in store. I guess I'll have to order it off the web to get that price?

Thanks for the reviews it really helps when all you want to do is buy a good one and have it do it's thing without having to start a new hobby making sure you don't get a lemon :)

Jay

The BB website lists it at Sale: $159.99 but shows $169.99 in store. I guess I'll have to order it off the web to get that price?

Call your local BB to verify this but I believe you can order from the website and specify in-store pickup and get the web price.

Not much less, but Circuit City.com is selling it for $156.39.

Hi,

Just received a DMR-ES15 dvd recorder purchased yesterday. I have found numerous problems with this recorder which are as follows:-

1. It will not play ANY DVD-RW or DVD+RW disk that has been created on a PC. It just states the disks are not formatted correctly. However, the disks in question play perfectly on every other player I have tried them on. Is this a known fault with panasonic dvd recorders as the recorder is practically useless if it cannot play DVD+RW or DVD-RW disks unless they are formatted on this panasonic recorder. When I copy the DVD-RW / DVD+RW content to a DVD-R / DVD+R disk then the recorder plays them but this would be a very expensive method of playing my own self authored DVD’s.

2. The One Touch record facility (30,60,90 etc minute recordings) does not work at all. Once I set a recording going and subsequently press the REC button to initiate timed duration recordings, nothing happens and nothing is displayed on the screen. I have tried on all available disk formats including DVD-RAM.

3. Time slip function and manual skip (30 seconds) will only work on a DVD-RAM disk or a finalised DVD+R disk but not DVD-R / DVD-RW / DVD+RW disks despite the manual clearly stating they should work. These functions do not even work on pre-recorded DVDs which is clearly unacceptable.

4. DIVX files (AVI) put on any format of disk are unplayable as the recorder states the disks are unformatted. This was one of the reasons for purchasing the recorder in the first place.

Thanks

Hi,
3. Time slip function and manual skip (30 seconds) will only work on a DVD-RAM disk or a finalised DVD+R disk but not DVD-R / DVD-RW / DVD+RW disks despite the manual clearly stating they should work. These functions do not even work on pre-recorded DVDs which is clearly unacceptable.
Thanks

Do they work on unfinalized DVDs?

On the ES20, time slip and CM-skip work on all unfinalized DVDs and DVD-RAMs (wiht a known bug), but they do not work on finalized or commercial DVDs. Not sure what the thinking behind this decision was, I guess they designed this with recorder-priority :-)

The known bug is that they dont work when you burn on a DVD for the first time unless you either open/close the tray or turn the machine off/on.

I use the one-touch recording feature without problem. Can't comment on the others.

They CM skip and time slip only works on DVD-RAM according to the panasonic support guy. The OTR failure must be a fault on my machine then as I can't believe this wasn't tested in QA.

Thanks for the help guys. Anyone else have comments on playing PC DVD-RW/+RW disks on this DMR-ES15. I'd say it's a necessity.....

4. DIVX files (AVI) put on any format of disk are unplayable as the recorder states the disks are unformatted. This was one of the reasons for purchasing the recorder in the first place.

Thanks

I don't see any documentation that says this recorder SUPPORTS DIVX in the first place, where did you get that info?

To those who have the unit, is it suitable for converting VHS and Mini-DV camcorder tapes to DVD? I am looking for a unit that will create some sort of menu with thumbnails and picture background and let you automatically enter chapter marks every x minutes. Can the ES15 do this?

To those who have the unit, is it suitable for converting VHS and Mini-DV camcorder tapes to DVD? I am looking for a unit that will create some sort of menu with thumbnails and picture background and let you automatically enter chapter marks every x minutes. Can the ES15 do this?

It can record from VHS and Mini-DV, but I don't think you will get the kind of control of the menu creation that you are looking for. It will be a basic menu with chapters created every 5 or 8 min (depending on the format of the DVD, either +R or -R), and you cannot use a user selectable image as a background.

[QUOTE=csiman]They CM skip and time slip only works on DVD-RAM according to the panasonic support guy.


The time slip/CM functions on my ES15 work on any sort of non-finalized disks, not just DVDRAM. I haven't tried it w/finalized or commercial DVDs.

Thanks for the help guys. Anyone else have comments on playing PC DVD-RW/+RW disks on this DMR-ES15. I'd say it's a necessity.....

I've successfully played DVD-RW (VR mode) discs burned on a PC on my EH75V (latest Panny HDD model recorder) should also work on the ES15.

Panny does not support DIVX playback and has never advertised as such, so I don't know where you got the idea it would.

Based on your reported one touch recording issue and other posts refuting some of your other claims you are either the victim of: (1) a defective unit or (2) operator error.

Call your local BB to verify this but I believe you can order from the website and specify in-store pickup and get the web price.

I just ordered an ES-15 on the web & picked it up at a local store for the web price. The web ad will tell you what local stores have the unit in stock & will reserve one for you.

Is it true that when recording a DL disc, the es15 stops at the end of the first layer until you hit the "finalize" button, at which point it finalizes the first layer and THEN goes on to record the second layer?

That's what "CKNA" says (post 24 and 28):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7572291#post7572291

So that means that if I'm recording a long movie onto a DL disc I'll need to hit the pause button for that source until the first layer finalization is complete? :eek:

Please, please say it ain't so...

Hi. Joined this forum just to read about this exact model -- glad you're all here. I intend to buy the ES15 in a month or so and most everything I've read says it's the right choice for me.

My memory could be wrong but I think I saw DivX playback listed on the retail box. I remember gasping slightly in excitement. I can't confirm that now because our local Best Buy and Circuit City is sold out. But...

Go to the Japanese product web site to confirm DivX Playback:

panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/europe/es15/specifications.html
(sorry, no links until I make 5 posts!)

Here is a quick clip out of the spec chart:

********

DivX*4 on CD, CD-R / RW, DVD-R

*4: Official DivX Certified™ product. Plays DivX_5, DivX_4, DivX_3, and DivX_VOD video content (in compliance with DivX Certified™ technical requirements).DivX, DivX Certified, and associated logos are trademarks of DivXNetworks,Inc. and are used under license.
About DivX : DivX is a popular media technology created by DivX, Inc. DivX media files contain highly compressed video with high visual quality that maintains a relatively small file size.

********

They do not put a bullet point on the UK version. Note that it claims to only work on CDs and DVD-R.

Again, I won't be able to test this myself until I purchase in a few weeks, but maybe others can try it.

Thanks for all the great info,

-Jay


[UPDATE:] Wait... uh oh. I just noticed that this is the EUROPEAN Panasonic site. Could it be the case that DivX is only for the PAL version of the ES15? And my mind was only fantasizing when I thought I saw it list on the box?

DV Input, yes. DIVX, no.

Ok, I bought an E15s yesterday from BB. All I did was printout the shopping cart page (showing ther sale price) and they did a price match to web. No fuss. As for the recorder, here are my first impresssions:

1. Why do they have to make these things so wide??? Oh well, at least it's thin.
2. Love the remote no comparison to the Cyberhome 1600.
3. I just works. Not the hit or miss or proprietary stuff with the other two I've tried.
4. LP looks fine, love the commercial skip button :)

Nags:
1. Auto clock was taking over 10 minutes ... too bad it won't let you specify the station. I just used manual instead
2. RF pass thru is hosing up the satellite signal (a lot of noise and barely visible picture unless the recorder is left on (need to troubleshoot this one some more). Neither of the other 2 did this.


Update: Ok, turns out both of my nags were caused by a poor RF connection. So the issues are resolved and the unit is great for my needs.

Jay

You no longer have to turn the unit off to do scheduled recordings! (That always irritated me.)

Confirmed from another BBS they've crippled the US version of the ES15 to not play DivX files. It also may contain some of that broadcast flag crap that we're going to see more and more of.

Oddly, though, the DivX compatable model I saw in-store was the DVD-S52 upconverting player at $100. This capability is listed on the little card displayed on top of the machine. Could easily be a misprint or carryover from European versions.

Kinda burns me up that DivX is in there but turned off.

You no longer have to turn the unit off to do scheduled recordings! (That always irritated me.)

Oh so what happens when a Timer recording approaches and the machine is turned on? What if you are playing from a DVD?

Oh so what happens when a Timer recording approaches and the machine is turned on? What if you are playing from a DVD?Well, if you are playing from a DVD, then you can't have blank media in the drive to record to, can you?

The manual says that if the unit is on when the time comes for the programmed recording to start, the unit will attempt to record. I assume that if you are playing a commercial DVD, the recording will cancel.
I "test drove" this "new feature" last night & it recorded without a hitch.

Just bought one today at BB (ordered over the web for in store pick up), price came out to $154, and thats with NM state tax.

My first DVD-R deck...I will apologize in advance for the inevitable dumb, RTFM questions I will likely be back with!

Brian

S-Video. The FireWire input on DVD Recorders is for DV format video, not MPEG Transport Stream like comes out of STBs.
Isn't component (RGB) better than s-video?

What's the best possible way to get a signal from a digital cable box (that does not have rf out) to my panny 15. The cable box does have hdmi, usb, rgb, and IEEE 1394 firewire output. I suspect it would be via the firewire output to the front of the panny 15 recorder. But would like input from someone who is not a newbie like myself. Thanks.It took me a while to fnd the original question.

Yes, Component Video is better than S-Video, using three wires to convey the signal compared to the two wires for S-Video. But Component Video is not RGB, RGB is used in VGA connections. Component Video can carry either YCbCr or YPbPr signals.

If, when craigah said 'rgb', he meant Component Video, then yeah, that should have been my answer. In fact he didn't even mention the answer I gave (S-Video). The main goal of my post was to make sure he understood that the FireWire was not going to do what he wanted.

Few DVD Recorders support Component Video input. But if yours does, and you have the choice from your STB as to which to use, Component Video can potentially give a slightly better picture. Although some here have mentioned not being able to see a difference.

Well, if you are playing from a DVD, then you can't have blank media in the drive to record to, can you?

You can't have blank media, but what if it is an unfinalized DVD with free space available :-)

You can't have blank media, but what if it is an unfinalized DVD with free space available :-)

Then the machine records on the free space (if enough is available).

I think the question is, when in the middle of playing a DVD with space left over for recording (unfinalized of course), and a timer recording time hits, will it just stop playing the DVD and start recording on it?

"Scheduled recordings begin when the set time is reached even when recording or playing"

Hmm. Not real clear. When I get a minute I'll experiment with this.

Well, that makes it sound like it will actually stop what you're playing and start recording. Interesting.

Is it true that when recording a DL disc, the es15 stops at the end of the first layer until you hit the "finalize" button, at which point it finalizes the first layer and THEN goes on to record the second layer?

That's what "CKNA" says (post 24 and 28):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7572291#post7572291

So that means that if I'm recording a long movie onto a DL disc I'll need to hit the pause button for that source until the first layer finalization is complete? :eek:

Please, please say it ain't so...

I want to know this as well. Can somebody please confirm or deny the above statement?

The ES-15 clearly states that the process requires "closing" of the first layer before recording on the second. Heck, its on the outside of the box too.

It treats DL as 2 discs when recording.

UK Owners only:-

Has anyone ever managed to record a PC DVD (Video_ts) on to a DVD+RW or DVD-RW disk and got the DMR-ES15 to recognise & play the disk as I never have. It plays the same contents put on a DVD-R disk but will cost me a fortune in the long run?

Also, has anyone got the commercial skip button to work on pre-recorded disks?

Thanks for any help.

You can't have blank media, but what if it is an unfinalized DVD with free space available :-)Ah, point taken.

"Scheduled recordings begin when the set time is reached even when recording or playing"

Hmm. Not real clear. When I get a minute I'll experiment with this.

Thanks! It looks like they may have designed this with Timer-priority instead of Playback-priority, which makes sense since this is a recorder :-) Without this feature a user would have lost the recording if they forgot to turn off the machine...

In some occasions it may record on the wrong DVD, but the burden is on the user to make sure they have the right DVD in. The only time this could be an unrecoverable problem is with write-once DVDs.

But overall I think this is a good approach...

I just picked up a Panny es15 yesterday. I've set it up but haven't tried recording anything yet. I'm wondering what is the benefit that DVD recorder users find over just setting up video capture then burn to a DVD burner on a computer? My main use is to put VHS recording onto DVD and the dump recordings from my soon to get set top box with PVR. Thanks for any input.

Burning to a DVD on PC usually involves a lengthy encoding process since software MPEG encoders do not run as fast as the hardware encoders in standalone DVD Recorders. Unless of course your capture card does the encoding in hardware, certainly a possibility, but my guess is that you don't have as much flexibility over bitrate/resolution/audio format with those as with a standalone DVD Recorder. But I'm not sure of this having never used a capture card (I just use FireWire and capture DV from an outboard A-to-D converter).

Update: Both BB and CC now are selling this unit for $144 down $10 from last week. I called BB and they said they would refund the difference when I bring in my receipt from last week. I bought it on a web price match in store. Also this week if you have a BB Reward Zone they are giving a $10 gift certificate for all orders over $100 ... so it's now $20 off from the price I paid last week.

Never hurts to call and ask you local store though, since their policy states it's the store's decision to price match BB.com or not.

FWIW,
Jay

Update on my ES-15S performance. I scheduled it to record UFC from Spke ay 8-9 and 10-11 last night. Perfect! This is the first one you should buy, leave the Cyberhomes and LiteOn's for te lesser informed and those people (who are like me) that think they can save a few $'s and get a well-performing unit. Been there done that, trying to save others some hassle.

Ok, just tried the "Create a Top Menu" function to be able to view the recordings on my PC. Worked perfectly. I'm 100% happy with this unit. LP looks fine on my monitor, the colors are a bit dull, but it's way better than the Goggle Vidoes I've been watching.

Also this week if you have a BB Reward Zone they are giving a $10 gift certificate for all orders over $100 ... so it's now $20 off from the price I paid last week.

How often do they do these deals? I looked up the BB-RZ details and in order to break even on the $10/year membership fee you basically have to buy $300 worth of stuff at BB's usually inflated (compared to online) prices. The RZ program seems to make sense only if you're getting ready to buy say a plasma TV from them. Or am I missing something here?

Question about creating chapters with the machine. I have a Spike TV UFC that I recorded ontp VHS awhile back because I wasn't home and didn't want to miss it. Now I want to transfer that to DVD. From what I gather from the ES15 manual I can only put chapters where I want them if I use a DVD-Ram disc. If I use DVD-R then it automatically puts chapteres every 5 minutes. What I want to do (well it would be nice if I could) is have chapters that start at the begining of each match so I can click 'next" and it will go to the start of each UFC match.

How can I make that happen on a DVD-R? Is it possible? I read here that someone records things on a RAM disc, edits it how they want, then uses a different RAM compatible dvd player to play back the RAM disc and record it onto the es15 again with a DVD-R. What about recording it on a RAM disc, editing the chapteres how I want, then using a PC dvd-burner to high speed copy the RAM disc to a DVD-R. Will that work?

I don't have a PD dvd burner yet but they are pretty cheap. Also I think this is where a dvd rec with HD comes in handy but I didn't want that. Wanted to keep things basic but now I see that putting chapters where I want them is useful. Thanks.

How often do they do these deals? I looked up the BB-RZ details and in order to break even on the $10/year membership fee you basically have to buy $300 worth of stuff at BB's usually inflated (compared to online) prices. The RZ program seems to make sense only if you're getting ready to buy say a plasma TV from them. Or am I missing something here?
Yeah, I had to buy a new washer and dryer a few months ago so that's the only reason I have RZ. It's just icing on the cake.

Jay

Thanks to JayC.

I printed the $144.49 web price and took it to my BB to see if I was eligible for a price match.


$27 and change later, I'm home.

Appreciate the heads up!

Question about creating chapters with the machine. I have a Spike TV UFC that I recorded ontp VHS awhile back because I wasn't home and didn't want to miss it. Now I want to transfer that to DVD. From what I gather from the ES15 manual I can only put chapters where I want them if I use a DVD-Ram disc. If I use DVD-R then it automatically puts chapteres every 5 minutes. What I want to do (well it would be nice if I could) is have chapters that start at the begining of each match so I can click 'next" and it will go to the start of each UFC match.

How can I make that happen on a DVD-R? Is it possible? I read here that someone records things on a RAM disc, edits it how they want, then uses a different RAM compatible dvd player to play back the RAM disc and record it onto the es15 again with a DVD-R. What about recording it on a RAM disc, editing the chapteres how I want, then using a PC dvd-burner to high speed copy the RAM disc to a DVD-R. Will that work?

I don't have a PD dvd burner yet but they are pretty cheap. Also I think this is where a dvd rec with HD comes in handy but I didn't want that. Wanted to keep things basic but now I see that putting chapters where I want them is useful. Thanks.

If you are watching them while recording to DVD you could start a new title for every match, so you can still go from match to match with the Next Title button (if a dvd player has that) or just press Next Chapter until it switches over to the next title. The limit of titles for DVD-R is 99. I do not know how long the UFC matches last, but if it is a small number per DVD, then this could be an option?

First off, thanks to everyone who contributes to this board. It's become my first stop when shopping for electronics. I get much more out of here compared to the "reviews" on other sites. I'm a novice when it comes to DVD recorders so this won't be very technical.

I received the ES20 as a Christmas gift and love it. With the World Cup coming up I needed another DVDR to record the games while I'm at work. I picked up an ES15 yesterday. My thoughts..

1) The system doesn't seem as "smooth" as the ES20. The tray opening and closing is louder (no big deal) and when finalizing a disc the writing is now audible, much like writing on to a 3.5" floppy. I never noticed noises on the ES20.

2) The media recognition seems to take a bit longer than the 20.

3) The remote feels more cumbersome than the 20. It's not a big deal since I just use my 20 remote with the 15 since it's my main recorder now. The missing open/closed button is odd.

4) I run the feed from from a cable box and the picture quality is much nicer running through the 15 compared to the 20, especially the analog channels (have WOW digital service). One thing I did notice is when I change channels through the cable box the screen slightly flickers now. I had a smooth channel change using the 20.

5) Used the scheduled recording feature overnight and everything recorded fine. The picture quality is very nice using the LP setting. Finalizing the disc didn't take long at all.

Aside from the minor things, I'm really impressed so far. It's an easy-to-use machine that provides nice picture quality.

First off, thanks to everyone who contributes to this board. It's become my first stop when shopping for electronics. I get much more out of here compared to the "reviews" on other sites. I'm a novice when it comes to DVD recorders so this won't be very technical.

I received the ES20 as a Christmas gift and love it. With the World Cup coming up I needed another DVDR to record the games while I'm at work. I picked up an ES15 yesterday. My thoughts..

1) The system doesn't seem as "smooth" as the ES20. The tray opening and closing is louder (no big deal) and when finalizing a disc the writing is now audible, much like writing on to a 3.5" floppy. I never noticed noises on the ES20.

2) The media recognition seems to take a bit longer than the 20.

3) The remote feels more cumbersome than the 20. It's not a big deal since I just use my 20 remote with the 15 since it's my main recorder now. The missing open/closed button is odd.

4) I run the feed from from a cable box and the picture quality is much nicer running through the 15 compared to the 20, especially the analog channels (have WOW digital service). One thing I did notice is when I change channels through the cable box the screen slightly flickers now. I had a smooth channel change using the 20.

5) Used the scheduled recording feature overnight and everything recorded fine. The picture quality is very nice using the LP setting. Finalizing the disc didn't take long at all.

Aside from the minor things, I'm really impressed so far. It's an easy-to-use machine that provides nice picture quality.

Thanks for that. Have you tried record a PC DVD (Video_ts) on to a DVD+RW or DVD-RW disk and got the DMR-ES15 to recognise & play the disk as I never have. It plays the same contents put on a DVD-R disk but will cost me a fortune in the long run? A workaround is to use NERO to encode the AVI video to VCD format on to CDRW but then you can't stop the programmes half way through :(

4) I run the feed from from a cable box and the picture quality is much nicer running through the 15 compared to the 20, especially the analog channels (have WOW digital service). One thing I did notice is when I change channels through the cable box the screen slightly flickers now. I had a smooth channel change using the 20.

The ES15 has an upgraded D/A chip over the 20. This may be what you're seeing.

I believe the 15 is using a different tuner than the 20 based on the thread with the photo of the innards.

Darn, you guys have me all excited about the es15...I have an es20 that just came in from Amazon last week and now it looks like I'll just ship it back for a refund and get the es15 instead...sure wish the DL discs would come down in price!

I'd order it from CC for $155 right now but they only have silver and all my components are black, sigh.
UK prospective buyer here who is very confused :rolleyes: Have seen all the great reviews of the ES15, BUT also seen several reviews stating the BIG negative points of the ES15 are:


No RGB input
Analogue only tuner


As a new user of this forum am not allowed to include link to the discussions, but there seems to be a consensus that these are major reasons for going for the ES20 over the ES15.

Sample comments:

In the UK there really is no place for the ES15 as analogue begins to get switched off at the end of next year
There's no RGB in on the ES15, so a no brainer IMO. Go for the ES20
The ES15 is Panasonic's first ever recorder without an RGB input. Bad move!!
The achilles heel of the DNR-ES15 is not so easy to spot. It does not offer an RGB Scart input. Yes, this is an affordable deck, but there is absolutely no excuse for this omission. It means that if you have a digibox you will not be able to record your programmes in the best possible picture quality, and that's what DVD recording should be all about.

Buy ES20D. Better picture using digital tuner and can also use DVD-RW rewitable discs much like DVD-RAM but with less editing provision. If intending to playback in other players/drives then write once DVD-R or DVD+R discs will both work in ES20D, if viewing on the ES20D then using DVD-RAM is most straight forward option with the bonus of full editing features. As far as I know from limited use of a Philips(Nightmare!), recorder DVD+RW discs are far more limited/complicated in general use than either -RW/RAM discs. I'm not 100% sure but I think ES20D can playback previously recorded DVD+RW discs if this is required. Finally lack of a RGB input is too much of a loss quality wise, so best avoid ES15 unless you need DV input for camcorders etc.

By the way, i should highlight -in case it's different from the US model - the UK ES20 is actually a ES20D and it includes a Freeview digital tuner.

Anyway, anyone care to comment on the above, as it's swaying me heavily towards going for an ES20D rather than an ES15 :confused: :confused: :confused: Apart from the slight increase in price for the ES20D, can anyone persuade me why I should still go for the ES15 in view of above concerns?

Hi All,

I'm just wondering how I would go about connecting my satellite reciever to this unit and how I can connect it to my LCD tv.

This is my thought:
The feed from the satellite is connect via S-Video cable to the DMR-ES15 (this should allow me to record TV shows).

Then from the DMR-ES15 I would use component cables to take advantage of the progressive scan feature of the unit.

My question is, will I be able to watch tv programs through the DMR-ES15 via the component cables or do I have to send the satellite signal from the DVDR to the TV via S-Video? Do component cables only transfer video from DVD's or will it also transfer video from the satellite throught the DVDR?

Also I'm assuming that my audio would go from the satellite reciever into the DVDR and then out from there into my home theater receiver. Is this right?

UK prospective buyer here who is very confused :rolleyes: Have seen all the great reviews of the ES15, BUT also seen several reviews stating the BIG negative points of the ES15 are:


No RGB input
Analogue only tuner


As a new user of this forum am not allowed to include link to the discussions, but there seems to be a consensus that these are major reasons for going for the ES20 over the ES15.

Sample comments:








By the way, i should highlight -in case it's different from the US model - the UK ES20 is actually a ES20D and it includes a Freeview digital tuner.

Anyway, anyone care to comment on the above, as it's swaying me heavily towards going for an ES20D rather than an ES15 :confused: :confused: :confused: Apart from the slight increase in price for the ES20D, can anyone persuade me why I should still go for the ES15 in view of above concerns?

I think the UK ES20 is a different creature from the USA ES20, not just internally but also externally. I think the UK ES20 is closer to the ES10. I forgot the details since it is almost a year since I was comparing all those models.

As neither one has RGB SCART for USA models, for the USA market the ES15 is a better value than the ES20.

I am not very familiar with the UK TV system, and I forgot the differences betwen the UK and USA ES20, so I cannot comment on that.

(I have a USA-model ES20)

I have the 35v model of the pioneer and am wondering about the quick start feature. I currently have this turned on and the machine does fire up much more quickly. I use my system daily.

Is there any benefit to having it off besides saving energy? Will my player last longer? Is there any downside to having it on?

UK prospective buyer here who is very confused :rolleyes: Have seen all the great reviews of the ES15, BUT also seen several reviews stating the BIG negative points of the ES15 are:


No RGB input
Analogue only tuner


Anyway, anyone care to comment on the above, as it's swaying me heavily towards going for an ES20D rather than an ES15 :confused: :confused: :confused: Apart from the slight increase in price for the ES20D, can anyone persuade me why I should still go for the ES15 in view of above concerns?

Well, most of us at this board reside in the U.S.; so our issues and necessities differ greatly.

The ES20 that was issued in the US had a lot of frezzing problems, bugs, glitches--whatever; you name it, it had it. (And the Firmware updates (in my humble opinion) only made matters worst.)

So it's understandable that people are raving about the ES15, because after all, it is finally doing what it was meant to do.

Anyway, as far as I know, the ES20 has been pulled/discontinued here in the US. Not only that, but the ES15 is currently on sale for about the same amount as the ES20 clearance price tag. So it's a no brainer.

Okay, as far as UK residents go, the ES20D has a FREEVIEW Digital tuner and an analogue tuner. The analogue tuner is used to decode cable signals, the freeview tuner is used to capture "free airwave digital signals" from certain BBC Channels much like our antennas capture free airwave analogue signals from ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC.

If you are an UK resident, and you already have access to those digital channels via Cable or Satellite; then you probably don't need the FREEVIEW DIGITAL TUNER. If your reply is "but I need the Digital Tuner"; then you just answered your own question and the ES20 is for you.

If, on the other hand, your answer is... "eh, I don't really need the Freeview Tuner"; then your next step is probably to find out if the original ES20 bugs have been dealt with, or if they are so minor that you can live with them.

Another option is to go to a store that has good customer service/return policy, and try them both out.

Oh! And as far as the RGB Scart input port, I don't remember the ES20 having one; but it's one of those things you can easily check out by examining the store's floor model.

Good Luck, and Good Hunting.

The ES20 that was issued in the US had a lot of frezzing problems, bugs, glitches--whatever; you name it, it had it. (And the Firmware updates (in my humble opinion) only made matters worst.)


I don't know what your experience with the ES20 was, but I have burnt 600+ DVDs with it by now and in some days I had it running for 12+ hours with very little or no rest. While by no means perfect, and it did have its share of issues/bugs, my experience with it was nowhere near as negative as you describe above :-)

OK, so it's time for real noob questions: Is there any difference between the ES15 that is being discussed and the ES15S ? or is one just a shorthand for the other?

I see from another thread that the difference between the ES15(S) and the ES35V is the VCR part. Is that all? Is it an ES15(S) with all of the bells and whistles and they just put a 4-head hi-fi VCR into it?

Is it really better to spend the $$ on this, rather than just plug my Panny VCR (PV-V4522) into the composite RCA In port on my Radeon video card in my PC and record to the PC's hard drive, then just burn the video to a DVD with Nero? I guess using Nero gives me more creative control, better chapter placement, etc. but is it worth the time and effort to go through all that, or just spend the $150-250 (depending on just a plain DVD recorder or DVD/VCR), and let 'er rip (no pun intended)?

Thanks,
Wayne

ok what type of sound inputs or outputs are used on es15?? is it stereo ,dolby, ??? i dont want another mono recorder. mostly i will ise my digital camcorder to burn videos. which is in stero . i cant find online if its stereo or virtual . anyway to the guys and gurus who have the es15 how does the sound sound ??? lol :D

S refers to the fact that the unit is silver in color. Past Pannys have been S for silver and K (?) for black. It has been established that the 15 will not be available in black, but I suppose Panasonic reserves the right to change it's/their mind(s).

Hi All,

I'm just wondering how I would go about connecting my satellite reciever to this unit and how I can connect it to my LCD tv.

This is my thought:
The feed from the satellite is connect via S-Video cable to the DMR-ES15 (this should allow me to record TV shows).

Then from the DMR-ES15 I would use component cables to take advantage of the progressive scan feature of the unit.

My question is, will I be able to watch tv programs through the DMR-ES15 via the component cables or do I have to send the satellite signal from the DVDR to the TV via S-Video? Do component cables only transfer video from DVD's or will it also transfer video from the satellite throught the DVDR?

Also I'm assuming that my audio would go from the satellite reciever into the DVDR and then out from there into my home theater receiver. Is this right?

Has anyone got this type of set up?... I'm assuming its pretty standard. :)

Any help I can get on this would be greatly appreciated.

@JK5000, try switching the input on the recorder when connected via component to your S-Video input.

I don't know what your experience with the ES20 was, but I have burnt 600+ DVDs with it by now and in some days I had it running for 12+ hours with very little or no rest. While by no means perfect, and it did have its share of issues/bugs, my experience with it was nowhere near as negative as you describe above :-)

I had 3 Pannies ES20. On the first two, I made the mistake of doing a Firmware Update right out of the box (I know, newbie mistake). As far as I know, they could've been working great; and I just didn't know it. I also thought that a Firmware update would make the unit even better. No such luck. The Firmware made things worst. For instance, the x8 disc speed conversion to x16 activated a bug/glitch in the thumbnail system that prevented me, 9 times out of 10, from choosing the thumbnail I wanted for my finalizations.

The Firmware also activated/created a bug that would cause almost all of my extended recordings (i.e. movies longer than 2 hrs, burned using FR) to freeze when played on other recorders (almost like a region bug).

I think Pannasonic never caught on that their Firmware updates were doing this, and that's why we now have no eject button (and so many Finalization Screens). Apparently it was easier to think that us dummies didn't know how to finalize a disc, than to blame themselves for a crappy firmware update.

Anyway, I was kind of bitter because a DVD Recorder was to have been my Christmas present for December of last year. I bought the Lite-On because it got excellent reviews at cnet. It turned out to be a very, very, very bad recorder. That one would freeze just by playing a commercial DVD. I returned it, but had problems getting my refund (had to make 2 trips, one to be denied, one to argue that Black Friday purchases have a return policy extension that lasts until February)

My last ES20 I simply exchanged for an ES15. So far I haven't had any problems (knock on wood), I'm happy with it, and I've learned some valuable lessons in the process. So it's all good.

As far as a side comparison between the ES20 and the ES15; well I think the only advantage the ES20 has over the ES15 is in the gray scaling. Whenever a show I'm recording ends and "fades into black", the ES20 will give you a smoother transition while the ES15 black scale will show some noise. I don't know if this is the recorders fault, or if it's actually showing me the noise that's coming in through the analogue cable transmission. Who knows; but so far, so good.

Cheers!

Thanks for the feedback, crabboy.

Now if anyone else wants to take the other questions, that would be great...

Oh, I have not yet purchased this unit I'm just wondering how it would operate. I'm probably going to buy it early next week with a new LCD TV and I'm just wondering if I'll need to buy an extra S-Video cable to go from the DVDR to the TV to transfer the satellite feed or if the component cables will work for this. It seems logical that they would.

so to summerize:

Satellite S-Video output ---> S-Video cable ---> DVDR S-Video input
Audio as well obviously.

Now it should record TV programs.

DVDR Component output ---> Component Cable ---> TV Component input

This should allow for progressive scan DVD watching but the question is, will my TV video signal also play through the component cables?

Do I have to select a different Imput to watch tv or a DVD? Or as soon as I hit play it just shows up on the screen and when I stop play then it goes back to TV?

Confused.

OK, so it's time for real noob questions: Is there any difference between the ES15 that is being discussed and the ES15S ? or is one just a shorthand for the other?

1 and the same. the last S = Silver. There is no ES15 listed on Panasonic's site (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97129&catGroupId=24987&modelNo=DMR-ES15S&surfModel=DMR-ES15S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702).


I see from another thread that the difference between the ES15(S) and the ES35V is the VCR part. Is that all? Is it an ES15(S) with all of the bells and whistles and they just put a 4-head hi-fi VCR into it?

Seriously, you can read about this for yourself on Panasonic's site (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelList?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=24987&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702).


Is it really better to spend the $$ on this, rather than just plug my Panny VCR (PV-V4522) into the composite RCA In port on my Radeon video card in my PC and record to the PC's hard drive, then just burn the video to a DVD with Nero? I guess using Nero gives me more creative control, better chapter placement, etc. but is it worth the time and effort to go through all that, or just spend the $150-250 (depending on just a plain DVD recorder or DVD/VCR), and let 'er rip (no pun intended)?

Thanks,
Wayne
That's for you to decide. For me, that sounds like a hobby in and of itself (and the few I did, were a major time consumer). But your intentions are different than mine for this DVR. I just want to record a show and watch it when I have time. No need to archive it so I delete them after I watch them.

FWIW,
Jay

Oh, I have not yet purchased this unit I'm just wondering how it would operate. I'm probably going to buy it early next week with a new LCD TV and I'm just wondering if I'll need to buy an extra S-Video cable to go from the DVDR to the TV to transfer the satellite feed or if the component cables will work for this. It seems logical that they would.

so to summerize:

Satellite S-Video output ---> S-Video cable ---> DVDR S-Video input
Audio as well obviously.

Now it should record TV programs.

DVDR Component output ---> Component Cable ---> TV Component input

This should allow for progressive scan DVD watching but the question is, will my TV video signal also play through the component cables?

Do I have to select a different Imput to watch tv or a DVD? Or as soon as I hit play it just shows up on the screen and when I stop play then it goes back to TV?

Confused.
According to the Operating Instructions, you can connect it the way you show. Looks like the play we convert any input signal to any of the output connectors based on the FAQ's and the connection diagrams. The manual is available on Panasonic's site.

As for the switching of inputs question: The unit will send the DVD signal to the outputs when you are in PLAY mode and whatever Input/TV channel otherwise. You can use the Channel buttons to cycle through the Inputs and the built-in TV tuner. But, if you are recording from say IN1 which is connected to your Satellite, then the DVR will record whatever your Sat system is sending, regardless of what channel your TV might be tuned to. Did that make sense?

FWIW,
Jay

Ya that seems to make sense. I think the "Looks like the play we convert any input signal to any of the output connectors based on the FAQ's and the connection diagrams." part is what I was asking. ie. component should carry the satellite picture to the tv as opposed to having to get an extra S-Vid cable. I have downloaded the manual but I was still stumped. I hope this works. we'll see.

ok what type of sound inputs or outputs are used on es15?? is it stereo ,dolby, ??? i dont want another mono recorder. mostly i will ise my digital camcorder to burn videos. which is in stero . i cant find online if its stereo or virtual . anyway to the guys and gurus who have the es15 how does the sound sound ??? lol :D
You looked online you say? ;) Did you try Panasonic's site (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97129&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfModel=DMR-ES15S&catGroupId=24987&surfCategory=DVD%20Recorders&displayTab=S)?


S-Video Inputs: 2 (1 front)
Composite Video Inputs: 2 (1 front)
Audio L/R Inputs: 2 (1 front)
RF Inputs: 1 (VHF/UHF)
2ch Audio Out Yes


From the manual
Select Audio Channel for DV Input
You can select the kind of audio when recording from the unit’s
DV IN terminal (page 32).
• Stereo 1: Records audio (L1, R1)
• Stereo 2: Records added audio such as narration (L2, R2)
subsequent to original recording.
• Mix: Records both Stereo 1 and Stereo 2.
When recording MTS broadcast, select the type of audio in
advance from “Multi-channel TV Sound ( MTS )” (above).

FWIW,
Jay

ok thanks for info . much apprciated

I have the 35v model of the pioneer and am wondering about the quick start feature. I currently have this turned on and the machine does fire up much more quickly. I use my system daily.

Is there any benefit to having it off besides saving energy? Will my player last longer? Is there any downside to having it on?
Fairly sure you meant Panasonic ;) and 35VS. Nope, that's the only benefit. 7W versus 3W or 168W a day versus 72W a day. Of course heat is the enemy of electronics but I'm sure the laser and the motors are constantly running with only 7W ... that's a low amount of power and thus low amount of residual heat. When you are recording and playing back is when things really heat up :)

FWIW,
Jay

Could someone please confirm if the ES15 will allow me to program the unit to play specific titles off of a commercial DVD?

For example, I've got all of the MASH TV show sets. They're divided up by titles (one episode per title - 8 or so titles per disc) and chapters (multiple chapters per title). Can I easily set the ES15 to play entire titles? In other words, can I program the unit to play Titles 2 and 3 and then stop?

I've had mixed success with various players / recorders, and it seems that some won't allow programming at all unless you're dealing with an audio CD. And some will only allow you to program by chapter. Makes it a real pain when you have to program 22 different chapters just to get 2 episodes to play.

Thanks!

Update: Both BB and CC now are selling this unit for $144 down $10 from last week. I called BB and they said they would refund the difference when I bring in my receipt from last week. I bought it on a web price match in store. Also this week if you have a BB Reward Zone they are giving a $10 gift certificate for all orders over $100 ... so it's now $20 off from the price I paid last week.

Never hurts to call and ask you local store though, since their policy states it's the store's decision to price match BB.com or not.


Bought one last week from bestbuy.com & picked it up from their Carson City store.
It was on sale at a cheaper price online this week so I printed out the ad & took the ad & my receipt to their store in Victorville, California. At first they said yes, they would refund the difference....until they saw my receipt. They said they could not do a refund since I bought in on line (something about their computers). I told them I would order one on line & return the unit I had. They said fine. Instead, I found a unit in stock (after dealing with a very blonde salesgirl....another story) and was able to buy it for the on line price. Tomorrow I will return the original unit.
Overall I will save $15, not counting the 2 or 3 bucks in gas. A cautionary tale.

Could someone please confirm if the ES15 will allow me to program the unit to play specific titles off of a commercial DVD?

For example, I've got all of the MASH TV show sets. They're divided up by titles (one episode per title - 8 or so titles per disc) and chapters (multiple chapters per title). Can I easily set the ES15 to play entire titles? In other words, can I program the unit to play Titles 2 and 3 and then stop?

I've had mixed success with various players / recorders, and it seems that some won't allow programming at all unless you're dealing with an audio CD. And some will only allow you to program by chapter. Makes it a real pain when you have to program 22 different chapters just to get 2 episodes to play.

Thanks!


I don't recall seeing anything in the ES15 user manual that would allow you to program playback of titles/chapters. I have the ES20 and I compared the manuals almost page by page.

It would be nice if it did, but the recorders are designed with recorder-priority...

Panasonic (marketing) has a bizarre way of dividing features between their dvd players and recorders. For example the ES20 can CM-Skip and TimeSlip on _all_ types of unfinalized DVDs, but not on finalized/commercial, while the dvd player S29 cannot CM-Skip/TimeSlip on +R/+RW, but can CM-Skip/TimeSlip on everything else finalized/commercial and VR mode. This makes more sense however when one considers that the ES20/ES15 were presumably designed with recorder-priority, not playback-priority.

I don't recall seeing anything in the ES15 user manual that would allow you to program playback of titles/chapters.

Well, crud. Thought I had found the perfect recorder for the bedroom. When will manufacturers realize that not everyone can afford / has room for / wants multiple units in any given space?

But, just for the record, has anyone actually tried to program the unit?

Thanks.

I guess I don't understand why what you're asking for is so important. If you recorded a bunch of episodes of whatever onto a DVD, there would be a thumbnail for each one in the Top Menu. To get it to play Title 2 just click on it's thumbnail. Once that completes, it will then play Title 3 (typically), or if you want a different one, return to the Top Menu (one button on the remote typically), and click on the thumbnail of the Title you want to play. I'm not seeing the big advantage to being able to tell it in advance to play Title X after playing Title Y. It saves a few button presses between the two Titles, but probably at the expense of having to press way more buttons up front to program it (if there even were such a feature).

No doubt you have some special need to be able to do this that I'm simply not aware of.

well i went with the es15 tonight. i printed out online best buy price of 144 bucks took it to store bought it no problems. the best buy store had it listed for 177 . so i saved over 30 bucks which rocks !! they had es20 clearanced marked for 150 . this was in aberdeen ,nc store.

Isn't component (RGB) better than s-video?
Yes. It's supposed to be.

I have my panny es-15s setup like this:

Cable box s-video out > s-video input of dvdR(es-15s)

dvdR(es-15s) component out > component input TV (progressive)

I can view all of my cable channels perfectly through my es-15s component output.

No doubt you have some special need to be able to do this that I'm simply not aware of.

Yeah, there is. :D My wife and I like to occassionally program the unit to play a couple of episodes of a TV show while we're going to bed. If we happen to fall asleep the sleep timer on the TV will shut it off, but it's nice to have the DVD player be able to sort of do the same. And we don't always want to watch episodes that are sequential, so being able to program different titles to play back-to-back is important.

Thanks for the help.

Bought one last week from bestbuy.com & picked it up from their Carson City store.
It was on sale at a cheaper price online this week so I printed out the ad & took the ad & my receipt to their store in Victorville, California. At first they said yes, they would refund the difference....until they saw my receipt. They said they could not do a refund since I bought in on line (something about their computers). I told them I would order one on line & return the unit I had. They said fine. Instead, I found a unit in stock (after dealing with a very blonde salesgirl....another story) and was able to buy it for the on line price. Tomorrow I will return the original unit.
Overall I will save $15, not counting the 2 or 3 bucks in gas. A cautionary tale.
So you're rich enough that that $13 isn't worth your time ... your alias is befitting :p I'd still say you got "free money" you didn't know was there. However, I did state that it was up to each store on how they would handle a price match/return to the web prices.

All in good fun,
Jay

Yeah, there is. :D My wife and I like to occassionally program the unit to play a couple of episodes of a TV show while we're going to bed. If we happen to fall asleep the sleep timer on the TV will shut it off, but it's nice to have the DVD player be able to sort of do the same. And we don't always want to watch episodes that are sequential, so being able to program different titles to play back-to-back is important.

Thanks for the help.
The DVR has a timer too. It defaults to 4 hours then it'll shut itself off. I agree with the previous poster ... this a a bell that might appeal to you but I would never use it and am glad I didn't have to pay for it. But if your heart is set on it, keep searching.

In fact, I have never used the A->B play feature on my Pioneer DVD player ... can not figure out why you would need it outside of the sales room floor :confused: I'd figure the same thing if I saw this feature. Geeze, in LP you only have 8 30 minute shows.

FWIW,
Jay

I agree with the previous poster ... this a a bell that might appeal to you but I would never use it and am glad I didn't have to pay for it. But if your heart is set on it, keep searching.



I will. This used to be a standard feature on every DVD unit sold, and I'm noticing that it's going away. I agree that it's not important to most people; that's why I was asking about it before buying.

I appreciate the feedback.

I have my panny es-15s setup like this:

Cable box s-video out > s-video input of dvdR(es-15s)

dvdR(es-15s) component out > component input TV (progressive)

I can view all of my cable channels perfectly through my es-15s component output.


I am delighted to hear that this set-up works. I have a DMR-EH55 on order and I was hoping that I wouldn't have to run S-Video and Component to my plasma TV. I do believe that the models that have a VCR have the Component out dedicated to DVD and therefore if you have an S-Video feed from your cable or Sat. STB you will also have to have S-Video to your TV.

Well, crud. Thought I had found the perfect recorder for the bedroom. When will manufacturers realize that not everyone can afford / has room for / wants multiple units in any given space?

But, just for the record, has anyone actually tried to program the unit?

Thanks.

Well, if they had more resources to put into it, it would be nice if they added more playback features. However, when they have to trade-off (which is what usually happens) they should be using the resources for recording features over playback features.

I don't think anyone can try to program it as is since there is no button/interface that allows you to do that. But since you asked, I'll try to use the Program button of my Panasonic S29 dvd player's remote control to see if the ES20 reacts to it :) Maybe if they are using shared firmware and if they did not disable that feature... I will report back...

I'll try to use the Program button of my Panasonic S29 dvd player's remote control to see if the ES20 reacts to it :) Maybe if they are using shared firmware and if they did not disable that feature... I will report back...

I just tried it and it does not work. I did not discover any other hidden features either :(

I just tried it and it does not work. I did not discover any other hidden features either :(

Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.

I'm not sure if Panasonic will, though, as they just lost a sale. But I certainly understand all of the arguments against having the extra features associated with a player, and that they focused on the recording capabilities. It's just a shame that things like this are dropped, as program play has been a standard feature on DVD players since the dawn of the technology (and CD players before that!) I'm sure it wouldn't have taken much to include it.

Ok, I had to go look to see if in fact older DVD players have this as a standard feature ... several do. So I decided to look at the Sony line to see if it does what you want. It may ... and so may the Panasonic. Both have the ability to create a Playlist. This allows one to chose the titles and chapters and what order they will be played in that playlist (like an MP3 player). The only catch is that it has to be a DVD-RAM or DVD-RW(VR) disks for the Panasonic (and -RW(VR) for Sony).

I did also find A->B repeat option, not to mention that each time you press one of the Skip buttons (<< or >>) it will "skip titles, chapters, or tracks according to the number of times the button is pressed and play will begin".

FWIW,
Jay

Ok, I had to go look to see if in fact older DVD players have this as a standard feature ... several do.
Number of DVD players (of all varieties) I've owned: > 20
Number of times I've used "Program Play": 0

I have my panny es-15s setup like this:

Cable box s-video out > s-video input of dvdR(es-15s)

dvdR(es-15s) component out > component input TV (progressive)

I can view all of my cable channels perfectly through my es-15s component output.

Thanks buddy thats exactly what I was wondering.

saved me a few bucks on cables.

JK5K

Thanks buddy thats exactly what I was wondering.

saved me a few bucks on cables.

JK5K

Just remember that the Panasonic recorder must be powered ON in order to be used as a pass-thru device. I have 2 outputs on my cable box, one goes into the ES15 and then from there into the TV. The other output goes directly into the TV. I just switch inputs on the TV depending on if I need to have the recorder on or off.

do you think that by having it turned on it will reduce the life of the player/recorder?

At only 7W ... no.

The only catch is that it has to be a DVD-RAM or DVD-RW(VR) disks for the Panasonic (and -RW(VR) for Sony).



Thanks. What would the reason be that it only works with recordable discs? I'm just having a really hard time understanding this logic.

Thanks. What would the reason be that it only works with recordable discs? I'm just having a really hard time understanding this logic.
Becaue it has to write the playlist information to the disc. My understanding is that it add the information to the title data IIRC.

Jay

I've been looking at the dmr-15 and noticed in the user manual that 16:9 programs will get squeezed into a 4:3 format rather than come out as letterboxed on all but DVD-RAM discs. I can't really believe that would be the case. I had a Sony briefly which did lettebox any 16:9 content but I returned it because there was a marked loss in quality between the original and the recording. So, is this true? And also, does the recording qaulity equal the source?

Thanks so much for this info.

DVD recorders capture the signal they are sent. They do not letterbox widescreen images on their own. Some source units (certain HD cable boxes, for example) cannot send a squeezed widescreen image through their composite or s-video outputs... they automatically send a letterboxed 4:3 image instead. The DVD recorder has nothing to do with it.

It is helpful though if a DVD Recorder can either automatically detect that it is receiving 16:9 content and set the anamorphic widescreen flag in the resulting copy, or at least allow the user to manually set that flag for the copy that is made, so that the resulting DVD can be played back correctly on both 16:9 and 4:3 displays.

DVD recorders capture the signal they are sent. They do not letterbox widescreen images on their own. Some source units (certain HD cable boxes, for example) cannot send a squeezed widescreen image through their composite or s-video outputs... they automatically send a letterboxed 4:3 image instead. The DVD recorder has nothing to do with it.

so if I record say LOTR to an es15 or es20, will the final recording stay in letterbox format if that's what I choose on the source player?

so if I record say LOTR to an es15 or es20, will the final recording stay in letterbox format if that's what I choose on the source player?Was it recorded from a letterboxed signal, and/or did the recording device flag it as widescreen?

If it was recorded from a letterboxed signal, then you're done, nothing else matters, it will always play back letterboxed.

If it was recorded without letterboxing, then it depends on whether it was flagged as widescreen on the resulting DVD. If yes, then your player will do the right thing on 4:3 displays, which is tyically to letterbox it. If not, then on 4:3 displays it will be too tall. On 16:9 displays you will have to tell your display to use the full width of the screen, but it will play back in full 16:9.

DVD recorders capture the signal they are sent. They do not letterbox widescreen images on their own. Some source units (certain HD cable boxes, for example) cannot send a squeezed widescreen image through their composite or s-video outputs... they automatically send a letterboxed 4:3 image instead. The DVD recorder has nothing to do with it.


That is what I assumed but:

1. Why does the user manual specifically show a 16:9 recording (off a 16:9 source) on a DVD-Ram disk and a squeezed 4:3 recording on all over media types?

2. I assume that when I recorded a 16:9 program from Tivo to the Sony the Tivo was sending it a leterboxed image. Yes? This recording played back properly on both widescreen and standard tv's. It showed letterboxed on the 4:3 and filled the screen on widescreen. Can I expect the same from the Panasonic?

3. What experience has owners of this recorder had with this issue?

thanks again

So you're rich enough that that $13 isn't worth your time ... your alias is befitting :p I'd still say you got "free money" you didn't know was there. However, I did state that it was up to each store on how they would handle a price match/return to the web prices.

All in good fun,
Jay

Just ran across this reply looking for more info on the ES-15. I did return the unit & get the price match. Ironically (or not!) I returned that one too. The lack of editing capability frustrated me. Now, after countless posts, searches, and trial runs of other units, I'm going this week to get another. I just could not match the ES-15 for PQ and ease of use (not to mention portability). After I save a few more pennies I will spring for TDA and do editing on my computer.

My original post was to advise people to buy at B&M Best Buys if possible, to avoid their computer mismatch. BB customer service has been courteous and helpful (even if their floor staff is not the best trained).

You nailed me, Jay...Whoever said "If it's not broke, fix it 'till it is broke" obviously met me somewhere. I just can never seem to leave well enough alone.

Oh, and I'm not that rich...gimme that $13!

You reminded me of the PQ. I use LP mode exclusively (4hrs per DVD). I recoded the National Geogrphic special "Race to Space". I decided on a lark to watch it on my projector (100" diagonal screen) to see what (if any) PQ issues I might could see.

WOW! It looked great. The PJ is a 5yr Infocus LP340V with a new bulb, the screen is a painted wall with a 4" felt border.

One other note I've been meaning to post. The DVD Ram that came with it ... well, it is/was more trouble to deal with than a DVD RW from my experience.

FWIW,
Jay

After I save a few more pennies I will spring for TDA and do editing on my computer.

er, what's a "TDA?"

The DVD Ram that came with it ... well, it is/was more trouble to deal with than a DVD RW from my experience.

That makes me feel a lot better for not having even opened mine since getting the es15. :D

er, what's a "TDA?"

Look Here (http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tda20.html)

Look Here (http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tda20.html)

hmm, looks a bit too complicated for a video primitive like me...

If this is about DMR-ES15/25S, then this info is wrong. My panasonic sends out unaltered cable signal through RF-out no matter if it is on or off. It is almost as if they did a Y split internally and sent one of them to RF-out.

Just remember that the Panasonic recorder must be powered ON in order to be used as a pass-thru device. I have 2 outputs on my cable box, one goes into the ES15 and then from there into the TV. The other output goes directly into the TV. I just switch inputs on the TV depending on if I need to have the recorder on or off.

Pretty sure he meant the RCA composite connectors.

Was hoping someone could answer a few questions for me. Bascially, I will be recording most recording on RAM and taking them to the computer and editing them with TDA Pro. I used to have Pioneer and Panny HDD models, but I think this will be cheaper and better for me.

I have some concerns:

1. I read that the Panny doesn't recognize 16:9 recordings. So if I recorded let's say a widescreen Stargate series episode from TV, it will make it a 4:3 recording. Is this true? I've read that the Pioneer recongizes the 16:9 recording flag and records in widescreen but panny lacks that feature. If panny doens't recognize the 16:9 on dvd-r, will it recognize it if I record it on RAM disc, which is the main media I will be using?

2. How about on +RW or -RW (I've read that panny will not record in VR mode for +RW or -RW), so I'm not sure if this is a VR thing or not.

3. Finally, does this ES15 record ALL formats (-DL, & +DL). Can someone confirm this.

This looks like a great buy for around $160. I don't need the hard drive (have a Tivo) and I save $$. Any input is appreciated. I'm about to bite the bullet in the next couple of days. If the Panny doesn't record widescreen TV shows, then I will have to scratch it off my list. Thanks

2. How about on +RW or -RW (I've read that panny will not record in VR mode for +RW or -RW), so I'm not sure if this is a VR thing or not.


Yes it works. I record solely to DVD+RW for transfer to my computer. Movies less than 2 hours I set the VR to the run time to fill up the disk for maximum picture quality.

Robert

Thanks for the reply. Great, I won't buy a RAM drive for PC then. I'm looking at the online manual right now. It shows this:

http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxx.com/images/products/PDF_Files/dmres15s_ownman.pdf
**************

RAM = VR
DVD-R = dvd video
DVD-DL = dvd video
DVD-RW = dvd video
+R = +VR
+R DL = +VR
+ RW = +VR


1. What is +VR? Is it the same as VR?

2. Will VR mode will take more space than DVD video mode?

3. On page 4 it states that on RAM will record 16:9 aspect picture. Someone please explaing this?

3. On page 4 it states that on RAM will record 16:9 aspect picture. Someone please explaing this?

It does preserve the 16:9 aspect ratio on DVD-RAM, what's to explain?

Sorry, just a little confused. Was hoping for more clarification.

If I use the DV input and record my camcorder widescreen movie on DV tape to +RW, will it keep the 16:9 aspect or do I have to use RAM? Same as TV shows, if their broadcasted in widescreen, do I have to use RAM to retain the widscreen or can I get away with it on +RW disc.

Sorry, just a little confused. Was hoping for more clarification.

If I use the DV input and record my camcorder widescreen movie on DV tape to +RW, will it keep the 16:9 aspect or do I have to use RAM? Same as TV shows, if their broadcasted in widescreen, do I have to use RAM to retain the widscreen or can I get away with it on +RW disc.

I use DVD-RAM to record 16:9 TV shows off of my STB using the s-video input. It preserves the 16:9 ratio on playback. I would expect it to do the same with 16:9 video from your camera using the DV input but have no personal experience. Maybe someone else can help you out here.

If the manual says that 16:9 only works on RAM then it won't work on RW's.

Bought this yesterday. I kind of got it for free since I used my visa credit card points to get a $200 Best Buy card.

My thoughts are all over the place as I write this, so I'm just going to write my opinion on the recorder:

I guess you're right. Evidently, the only way to preserve widescreen is to record on RAM disc. I used the DV cable from my camcorder and tried -RW and it wouldn't preserve the widescreen; I thought perhaps the widescreen was for tv shows only. So for those of you who are recording 16:9 TV shows and won't be using RAM to to take to your PC to do edits, then this recorder is not for you. Same thing for widescreen home movies from your camcorder. If you don't have a PC burner w/ ediiting software, then this recorder is also not for you. RAM is the only media that will retain the widescreen (I haven't tried a TV show yet).

I tried the DV input from my camcorder and recorded in XP mode. Is it me or for some reason the picture wasn't up to par with me. It was a little darker and the colors weren't vibrant as the camcorders screen. I sent the recorders input to "lighter" and same thing alhtough it wasn't as dark, the colors weren't vibrant as my camcorder's LCD screen which looks NICE. I then tried the composite cables thinking it may be the DV input, but same thing.

I wouldn't recommend this recorder to anyone unless they were doing editing on their PC. This will suite me since I am; all I need to to is buy a RAM reader. I will never use DL media on this recorder any other media but RAM. I guess you have to close one layer and then record on the other on DL. I can simply just transfer everything to RAM and do this via PC. In the near future, most TV shows will be widescreen, so if you're into recording TV shows this recorder is already/will be obsolete since recording on -R, -RW, +R, +RW will not retain the widscreen.

User Interface is also not that great. I regret selling my Pioneer 533 which had the DV input. I sold it because I wanted the latest Pioneer which came out last month. Unfortuantely, they omitted the DV port, so I settled for this. Pioneer interface was so easy to learn and "smooth". I actually scurried to find the same model online, but most places are sold out or are very $$. I paid $350 and sold it for $289 after 7 months. I hear that they have a similar interface, maybe even a little improved on their new models.

That's enough complaining. This machine will do what I need it to do and I got it for free. Just know what your needs are and maybe invest in a model with a hard drive. Hope this helps someone. Thank you all.

I don't think comparing it to your camcorder's LCD screen is a fair test. You will want to compare the quality of the recorded DVD, when played back to a given display, to the quality of the original, played back to that same display. That way differences in the display are not a factor.

Does this DVD recorder accept 16X discs or only 8X discs?

From The Owners Manual:
DVD-RAM Up To 5x
DVD-R Up To 16x
DVD-R DL Up To 4x
DVD-RW Up To 6x
DVD+R Up To 16x
DVD+R DL Up To 2.4x
DVD+RW Up To 4x

I have an older 2003 "Refurbished" Samsung (A Panny E50 Clone) & I have never had any problems recording on 16x DVDs so you should be good to go on the Panasonic ES15. :)

Most 16x discs can also be recorded at 8x, 4x, etc. The 16x rating is typically just a maximum rating and does not imply that it must be burned at 16x.

Most 16x discs can also be recorded at 8x, 4x, etc. The 16x rating is typically just a maximum rating and does not imply that it must be burned at 16x.
Yabbut the problem is if the (presumably new) media code isn't in the DVD-drive's tables, it won't attempt to record on it.

Heh. I have a stack of "Prodisc F01" Fuji -Rs bought before I knew the relevance of media codes (at least I bought 'em used) and the ES15 won't accept those blanks (and those discs are at least 2 years old).

Certainly there can be media compatibility issues. But what you describe is as much about the brand of media as it is about the speed. My statement still stands, when a disc says it can be burned at 16x it usually does not mean that is the only speed it can be burned at, only the highest speed. Although there are couterexamples, hence my "usually/typically" hedge.

Hi,

Newbie here, what is FR recoding?

Thanks1

FR = Flexible Recording.

On many Panasonic models (I have the E85H), you can make a recording and tell it how long it will be in advance, and have it use a recording quality that just fills a single-layer disc after the specified amount of time.

FR Mode can also be used when dubbing from the HDD to a DVD in real time. Say you have three titles to dub to one disc, and they total 2 hours and 15 minutes, by using FR Mode to dub that to a disc you are telling the recorder to use just the right bitrate (recording quality) to end up filling the whole disc with those three Titles. Using the normally-available "preset" recording qualities of XP, SP, LP, EP, ..., you can't be that precise with the bitrate specification, FR allows you to get between the preset recording qualities.

Hi,

Newbie here, what is FR recoding?

Thanks1

Flexible Recording. Rather than pick a "speed" (actually choosing the bitrate for capacity vs. quality), you preset the amout of time needed. The machine chooses a bitrate that fills the disc at the highest possible PQ quality.

Thanks for all the reply.

The Panny models do not have any editting capability unless you are using RAM or pick the models with harddrive. If editting capability is important and you want to bypass the method of using PC, there is a machine out there that can do edit on a -R disc. It is a RCA VCR/DVD recorder combo model# DRC 8320N. I returned it and bought the Panansonic ES-15 after reading about the picture quality cause that is important to me. However, the lack of editting capabilities is driving me nuts. I don't think there is FR mode on the RCA, though.

Thanks for all the info exchange you all do here.

I have an HD digital cable box and the Panasonic TH-42PX60U. I want to be able to record things from TV (ie: movies from on demand), so I have to send the signal through the DVD recorder first. Unfortunately there is no HDMI or component video in. I do realize of course that the DVD recorder won't actually record anything in HD, so it doesn't really need an HD input. Unfortunately for me, I'm not sure of another way to record (at a lower grade than HD - ie: composite or s-video in) and also route the signal to the TV. Can I go FROM the TV back into the DVD recorder? I guess that would be the easiest way.

So the connection would go as follows:

HD Cable Box --> TV (audio connect through the xr57 receiver)
TV --> DVD Recorder via S-Video output (audio connection from the TV obviously going to the receiver as well).

Does that make sense?

Alex