Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- [Text View] - Page 13

fiske

11-14-07, 06:32 PM

I believe I have a little challenge.
I am not able to access more than the Compression=OFF in the Audio setup Menu. The others are unselectable?? The rest looks like this
DVD-3930 AUDIO SETUP:

AUDIO CHANNEL = MULTI-CHANNEL
DIGITAL OUTPUT = NORMAL
DOWN SAMPLING = OFF
SOURCE DIRECT = OFF
BASS ENHANCER = OFF
COMPRESSION = OFF

Have anybody else experienced this problem of not being able to access this menu?
The 3930 is connected to a 2807 via HDMI, 2CH analog for CD's and also 6ch analog for Ext.In.
Another problem is that I am neither getting more than 2 channels working(FR and FL) when selecting Ext.In on the 2807. I have read up and down in the forum, but I have still not found out what could be the problem.

I believe I need to have Ext.In working correctly to be able to have Multichannel SACD played on my 3930 connected to the 2807?

s2silber

11-14-07, 10:40 PM

Make sure DenonLink is set to "Off" before you try to program these choices.

WestCoastD

11-15-07, 12:12 AM

Have anybody else experienced this problem of not being able to access this menu?I believe I experienced the same behavior when I first got my DVD-3930CI.

Seems I remember I had to go into "Digital Interface Setup" menu and re-set HDMI AUDIO from "MULTI(NORMAL)" to "2CH". Or re-set from "2CH" back to "MULTI(NORMAL)". Either one or the other. At least that's what worked for me.

fiske

11-15-07, 01:50 AM

Make sure DenonLink is set to "Off" before you try to program these choices.
It's set to OFF.

fiske

11-15-07, 01:10 PM

Tried to change from MULTI(NORMAL) to 2CH and then back to MULTI(NORMAL) , but there is no changes. I can't access these menus.
When I changed MULTI(NORMAL) to 2CH in HDMI AUDIO I am able to get into the AUDIO SETUP.
This way I can get multi-channel through Ext.In and let the 3930 do the conversion from digital to analog and send the output through Ext.IN (Analog) to the 2807.
Excellent ;-)

But , now I am only able to get 2 channel sound (FL/FR) through HDMI. In addition I am not able to use the Auddessy function.

Is this the way it is supposed to be?
I had hoped that it should be possible to run 5.1 signals through both Ext.In and HDMI without beeing forced to change the HDMI Audio settings in the 3930.

Any comments.??

WestCoastD

11-16-07, 12:15 AM

When I changed MULTI(NORMAL) to 2CH in HDMI AUDIO I am able to get into the AUDIO SETUPI figured that would work

This way I can get multi-channel through Ext.In and let the 3930 do the conversion from digital to analog and send the output through Ext.IN (Analog) to the 2807great. I'm using (5.1ch) analog OUT's on my DVd-3930CI as well (SACD, DVD-A).

But , now I am only able to get 2 channel sound (FL/FR) through HDMI. In addition I am not able to use the Auddessy function. Is this the way it is supposed to be?that's unfortunate, I'm not sure if this is how it's designed or what myself. I'm glad you were able to (accidentally) realize this issue.

I had hoped that it should be possible to run 5.1 signals through both Ext.In and HDMI without beeing forced to change the HDMI Audio settings in the 3930I was just about to set-up my HDMI connection for the first time (for DVD-Movies etc.,...), but still use the 5.1ch analog OUT's for multi-channel music. Will see how it works on my set-up.

maphiker

11-16-07, 06:49 AM

Hope you don't mind if I put my own 2 cents in here.

When I changed MULTI(NORMAL) to 2CH in HDMI AUDIO I am able to get into the AUDIO SETUP. But , now I am only able to get 2 channel sound (FL/FR) through HDMI.

I have the 2930 and I have made similar observations. In my case I am using the Denon link to connect to the AVR 4806. I have noticed that when I set the DLink in the audio menu, the HDMI must be set to two channel and I am locked out of many other settings.

In addition I am not able to use the Auddessy function.

The 4806 will not do Audyssey on the EXT IN signals. I believe the only modification on EXT IN is the channel levels and boosting the subwoofer. I would think the Audyssey will work on HDMI audio regardless of if it is stereo or multichannel.

Is this the way it is supposed to be?
I had hoped that it should be possible to run 5.1 signals through both Ext.In and HDMI without beeing forced to change the HDMI Audio settings in the 3930.

I have concluded that this is not possible but I am not sure. You could try asking Denon. Again, I have the 2930 but I think the two players have similar operations and settings.

fiske

11-18-07, 02:44 PM

Hope you don't mind if I put my own 2 cents in here.

I have the 2930 and I have made similar observations. In my case I am using the Denon link to connect to the AVR 4806. I have noticed that when I set the DLink in the audio menu, the HDMI must be set to two channel and I am locked out of many other settings.

The 4806 will not do Audyssey on the EXT IN signals. I believe the only modification on EXT IN is the channel levels and boosting the subwoofer. I would think the Audyssey will work on HDMI audio regardless of if it is stereo or multichannel.

I have concluded that this is not possible but I am not sure. You could try asking Denon. Again, I have the 2930 but I think the two players have similar operations and settings.
I have concluded that one have to chose one of the 5.1 possible channels. Either HDMI or Ext.In. Denon confirmed that I would need to change in the menu of the 3930 to have multi.channel (5.1) in HDMI or Ext.In.
The good thing. Now I know how this works ;-)

SirJohnFalstaff

11-21-07, 10:53 AM

Let us know how you think the player (using analog) stacks up against the AVR-3808CI (using Denon Link) in terms of audio quality.

So, after a few days with the 3930 I can say that for music CD's, nothing compares to the sound I get using the Denon Link. Right/left analog and HDMI do not deliver the same puch that the Denon Link does. My AVR-3808 just loves music from the link. Wow. And on the video front, it delivers an excellent picture. Not quite as sharp as my HD-DVD player, but close enough that I no longer feel the need to replace all but my top 20 movies with their high-def versions--if they all ever come out. My only disappointment is that the Denon Link doesn't pass multi-channel sound fro movies. Originally I thought I'd use the HDMI for picture, and the Link for movie audio, but didn't realize that it only passed two channels. Now I'm just using the HDMI for both audio and video. Does anyone think coax or toslink does a better job passing DVD movie audio than the HDMI?

WestCoastD

11-21-07, 12:07 PM

My only disappointment is that the Denon Link doesn't pass multi-channel sound for movies. Originally I thought I'd use the HDMI for picture, and the Link for movie audio, but didn't realize that it only passed two channelsdoes'nt Denon-Link pass multi-channel for SACD and DVD-A?

MSmith83

11-21-07, 12:56 PM

So, after a few days with the 3930 I can say that for music CD's, nothing compares to the sound I get using the Denon Link. Right/left analog and HDMI do not deliver the same puch that the Denon Link does. My AVR-3808 just loves music from the link. Wow. And on the video front, it delivers an excellent picture. Not quite as sharp as my HD-DVD player, but close enough that I no longer feel the need to replace all but my top 20 movies with their high-def versions--if they all ever come out. My only disappointment is that the Denon Link doesn't pass multi-channel sound fro movies. Originally I thought I'd use the HDMI for picture, and the Link for movie audio, but didn't realize that it only passed two channels. Now I'm just using the HDMI for both audio and video. Does anyone think coax or toslink does a better job passing DVD movie audio than the HDMI?

Thanks for reporting your findings. As for Denon Link, the interconnect covers all of the 3930's audio formats, including all bit-streams from DVDs, PCM (decoded into from MLP) from DVD-Audio discs at all supported sampling rates, as well as DSD (decoded into from DST) from SACDs.

Check your player and receiver settings, because something is wrong if you can only get two-channel audio from Denon Link.

SirJohnFalstaff

11-21-07, 01:58 PM

Check your player and receiver settings, because something is wrong if you can only get two-channel audio from Denon Link.

I've gone over the manual and am stumped. When I activate the Denon Link, the 3930 channel indicators on the display show only the front right and left channels for DVD movies. When I turn it off and send the audio over HDMI, I get all channels lit up. The same is represented on the 3808, so I think the problem is in the player and not the AVR. I must have over-looked something!?!

MSmith83

11-21-07, 06:44 PM

I've gone over the manual and am stumped. When I activate the Denon Link, the 3930 channel indicators on the display show only the front right and left channels for DVD movies. When I turn it off and send the audio over HDMI, I get all channels lit up. The same is represented on the 3808, so I think the problem is in the player and not the AVR. I must have over-looked something!?!

Using my 2930 with an AVR-4306, all I had to do was set the player's audio input on the receiver to DLink and set the player's Denon Link setting to 3rd edition.

Even though all of the player's audio processing options should be disengaged after enabling Denon Link, make sure the player isn't set to do a downmix or anything of the sort in the setup menu.

SirJohnFalstaff

11-21-07, 09:25 PM

My bad... I discovered tonight that I hadn't made the proper settings in the receiver to get the Denon Link to work properly. But even now that I know what needed to be done, I can't find the explaination in the crappy 3808 manual.

Now that I've heard Denon Link on DVD movies and CD's... Wow!

The Rang

11-21-07, 11:16 PM

Now that I've heard Denon Link on DVD movies and CD's... Wow!

If I understand correctly, the Denon link bypasses the (excellent) DACs in the 3930 and has the 3803 do the decoding, right?

The DACs in the receiver must be really good. I would have though that for 2 channel music the analog outs the DVD would be the way to go.

dare22

11-22-07, 12:40 AM

is it possible to make this player region free?

WestCoastD

11-22-07, 02:10 AM

I would have though that for 2 channel music the analog outs the DVD would be the way to go.for 2-channel CD the 2ch analog OUT's are pretty damn good.

rola

11-22-07, 02:51 AM

is it possible to make this player region free?

Yes, I'ts made from the remote, instructions are in this thread somewhere.

John Ballentine

11-22-07, 08:26 AM

for 2-channel CD the 2ch analog OUT's are pretty damn good.

I agree.
On another note. Is there anything your new Oppo does better than the 3930? Anything you dislike about your Oppo vs. the 3930. Just curious.

dare22

11-22-07, 12:23 PM

SirJohnFalstaff

11-22-07, 02:01 PM

If I understand correctly, the Denon link bypasses the (excellent) DACs in the 3930 and has the 3803 do the decoding, right?

The DACs in the receiver must be really good. I would have though that for 2 channel music the analog outs the DVD would be the way to go.

I found that the Denon Link provided the best sound for my set-up. Something about it just popped a little bit more than the 2 channel analogs, however this weekend a friend with incredible hearing is coming over to do a comparison. I'll be interested if he agrees with me or not.

Jon S

11-22-07, 07:12 PM

thanx for response about region free.

im waiting also for new oppo and if i understand good it will cost 3 times less then then this player.

is this player worth its price or i should wait for new oppo?

i was thinking of getting blue ray player for uppconverting my DVD`s but currently there is no BR player that is possible to make region free!

The Denon 3930CI is definitely state of art for a standard DVD player. The HQV processor is a step up from the Reon and a major improvement over the old Faroudja DCDi. The upscaling function is even better than the Sony PS3 with less noise. Audio-wise, CDs sound fantastic on this unit as well with the high grade DACs.

The only ding i have with the 3930 (and it's a BIG one) is that it's the most unreliable piece of electronics I have ever had. My first unit failed one week after purchase and the dealer replaced it, now after four months, the second unit freezes up when powered on. I have sent the unit to Denon five weeks ago and have not heard from them since. Others on this very thread have mentioned issues with this unit.

To compound matters, ever since the re-org, Denon-Marantz service has been the pits. The phones are always busy, they never call back and unless you remember who you called, they usually will have no record of you. Denon has had several firmware updates in Europe for the 3930 but the U.S. people insist nothing has been released, ever! I would really think twice about buying Denon, paying $1500 does not offer you any better service or quality.

:mad:

WestCoastD

11-23-07, 02:40 PM

Is there anything your new Oppo does better than the 3930? Anything you dislike about your Oppo vs. the 3930. Just curious.Actually, I've been shut down now going on two months, waiting for new NAD T175surround processor to ship (should be any day now):
http://nadelectronics.com/products/home-theatre-amplifiers/T175-Surround-Sound-Preamplifier

My system is ripped apart and my racks are pulled out from the wall. I bought the new Oppo (DV-980H), a new Pioneer Kuro plasma (PDP-4280HD), and new Monitor Audio (GS-Series) speakers. Also I recieved my DVD-3930CI back from Denon Customer Service for repair. I have'nt yet been able to test things. I'm trying to avoid re-connecting my Yamaha (RX-V2700)receiver as pre-pro with my three NAD C272 amps. It's a hassle to re-connect everything, move the system back against the wall. And then have to pull everything back out just to change the processor (once it arrives).

I will definitely report back here once I have all the pieces in place (maybe three weeks);)

John Ballentine

11-24-07, 09:43 AM

Thanks for the report - looking forward to your comparison. And anxious to hear what you think of the NAD T175. (I've been a NAD fan for many years)
By the way - have you seen this petition to coerce NAD to upgrade the T175 to decode DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=943819

WestCoastD

11-24-07, 02:46 PM

looking forward to your comparison. And anxious to hear what you think of the NAD T175.
By the way - have you seen this petition to coerce NAD to upgrade the T175 to decode DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD?yeah, I saw this petition, I will probably add my two-cents to it, I would like to have on-board decoding. Although I believe NAD will take it upon themselves to do it regardless in the near future as the HD player market is starting to really get hot.

SirJohnFalstaff

11-25-07, 12:44 PM

Yesterday me and a of mine did an extensive comparison of the audio differences between using left/right analogs and the Denon Link connected to an AVR-3808. We conlcuded the differences were very, very small. The analogs did slightly better with metal and rock, while the Denon Link made classical and orchestral soundtracks sound just a bit clearer. These were subtle differences, and I think anyone would be happy with either set-up.

kucharsk

11-27-07, 02:49 AM

The only ding i have with the 3930 (and it's a BIG one) is that it's the most unreliable piece of electronics I have ever had. My first unit failed one week after purchase and the dealer replaced it, now after four months, the second unit freezes up when powered on.

Thankfully my 3930CI has been rock solid; is your player's power line well protected against surges and spikes?

I can't speak for their service department (calling them has always been a bit painful), but they do readily admit that firmware revisions have been released in Europe; they just never give a good reason why the downloads haven't been made available on the U.S. web site.

Jon S

11-27-07, 11:43 AM

Thankfully my 3930CI has been rock solid; is your player's power line well protected against surges and spikes?

I can't speak for their service department (calling them has always been a bit painful), but they do readily admit that firmware revisions have been released in Europe; they just never give a good reason why the downloads haven't been made available on the U.S. web site.

I had the Denon hooked up to a Monster HTP7000 power line conditioner, so that is not the problem. Voltage at my house has been excellent, always about 117-120 volts, so did not feel the need for a voltage regulator.

smax

11-27-07, 05:01 PM

hi guys
what build date do i need for a us model 3930ci to ensure the latest firmware?
thanks

SirJohnFalstaff

12-07-07, 11:24 PM

Guys... Thanks for the info on how to make the 3930 reagion-free. I've just been able to watch the only region 2 DVD that I've always wanted and has never been available in North America!

Jon S

12-09-07, 02:14 PM

I purchased my Denon 3930 seven months ago, and it has been in service twice for two months. Pretty crappy in my opinion. What is even more troubling is Denons only have a one year warranty. I have still yet to hear from Denon about the status of my current issue since sending it up six weeks ago.

:(

WestCoastD

12-10-07, 01:30 PM

I purchased my Denon 3930 seven months ago, and it has been in service twice for two monthsthat's pathetic, sorry for your situation. Makes you feel real good about purchasing Denon's up-and-coming DVD-3800BDCI for $2000.00 :eek:

jstraw97

12-10-07, 05:33 PM

Using my 2930 with an AVR-4306, all I had to do was set the player's audio input on the receiver to DLink and set the player's Denon Link setting to 3rd edition.

Even though all of the player's audio processing options should be disengaged after enabling Denon Link, make sure the player isn't set to do a downmix or anything of the sort in the setup menu.

Sorry about the late response to this train of thought, but I've been experiencing a similar phenomena with my 3808 connected to a 2930 player. Whenever I enable Denon Link between the two units, 5.1 surround all but dissappears when playing DVD's (I have not tried a SACD yet). Without Denon Link enabled I get beautiful 5.1 surround sound. Considering how good it sounds without Denon Link enabled, I'm very curious to hear what a difference this connection could make. The 2930 is connected to my 3808 via Denon Link as well as HDMI.

Whenever I select "3rd" from the Denon Link options in the setup menu of the 2930, it limits my selection to 2 channel audio.....my question is, how do you setup the 2930 (or the 3808 if that is the culprit) to output 5.1 sound via Denon Link? :confused:

Also, should I let the 2930 do the conversion from digital to analog, or the 3808?

maphiker

12-10-07, 06:51 PM

Sorry about the late response to this train of thought, but I've been experiencing a similar phenomena with my 3808 connected to a 2930 player. Whenever I enable Denon Link between the two units, 5.1 surround all but dissappears when playing DVD's (I have not tried a SACD yet). Without Denon Link enabled I get beautiful 5.1 surround sound. Considering how good it sounds without Denon Link enabled, I'm very curious to hear what a difference this connection could make. The 2930 is connected to my 3808 via Denon Link as well as HDMI.

Whenever I select "3rd" from the Denon Link options in the setup menu of the 2930, it limits my selection to 2 channel audio.....my question is, how do you setup the 2930 (or the 3808 if that is the culprit) to output 5.1 sound via Denon Link? :confused:

Also, should I let the 2930 do the conversion from digital to analog, or the 3808?

No problem! You shouldn't have to do anything. However make sure you set up the 3808 to get the audio from the Denon Link, not the HDMI.

jstraw97

12-10-07, 10:41 PM

No problem! You shouldn't have to do anything. However make sure you set up the 3808 to get the audio from the Denon Link, not the HDMI.

Okay, thanks....how exactly do I do that? I've been going through the GUI menu for the 3808 for the last 15 minutes and I can't seem to figure out which setting will do that. When I look at the setting called "Audio Input Signal" in the Information menu, it says my surround mode is Wide Screen, and the signal is "PCM".

Anf for the record, the 3808 manual is utterly worthless for learning answers to this kind of stuff.

maphiker

12-10-07, 11:03 PM

Okay, thanks....how exactly do I do that? I've been going through the GUI menu for the 3808 for the last 15 minutes and I can't seem to figure out which setting will do that. When I look at the setting called "Audio Input Signal" in the Information menu, it says my surround mode is Wide Screen, and the signal is "PCM".

Anf for the record, the 3808 manual is utterly worthless for learning answers to this kind of stuff.

I have the 4806 but it should be similar. Go into system setup, audio input setup. Set DVD to Denon Link. That should do it. Don't hesitate to ask if you need more help.

maphiker

12-10-07, 11:15 PM

I have the 4806 but it should be similar. Go into system setup, audio input setup. Set DVD to Denon Link. That should do it. Don't hesitate to ask if you need more help.

Wow! I just looked at the 3808 manual. It is quite different than the 4806. Look at page 39. You want to get into the ASSIGN menu. Go to DVD and assign it the Denon Link.

jstraw97

12-10-07, 11:23 PM

Wow! I just looked at the 3808 manual. It is quite different than the 4806. Look at page 39. You want to get into the ASSIGN menu. Go to DVD and assign it the Denon Link.

Thank you!!! I went and did that, and yes, I can clearly see that the 3808 is picking up the Denon Link connection. Now that I have that straight, another problem has surfaced: I'm only receiving stereo sound from my 2930CI DVD player via the Denon Link. Whenever I set my 2930 DVD player to use Denon Link (3rd), it forces the "HDMI Audio Setup" selection to be 2 channel, not multi channel, even though it was set on multi channel prior to me selecting Denon Link (3rd). I believe this is why I'm only getting stereo and not 5.1 sound via Denon Link. How do I correct this?!? I've tried searching the other settings in the 2930's setup menu, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what to do. Selecting Denon Link removes the ability to adjust some of the 2930's settings. After all the posts I've read praising how good the Denon Link is at transmitting 5.1 sound, I'm eager to make this work!

FYI, I was playing one of the Star Wars DVD's when I tested this, so I should have been able to clearly hear 5.1 sound.

maphiker

12-10-07, 11:55 PM

Thank you!!! I went and did that, and yes, I can clearly see that the 3808 is picking up the Denon Link connection. Now that I have that straight, another problem has surfaced: I'm only receiving stereo sound from my 2930CI DVD player via the Denon Link. Whenever I set my 2930 DVD player to use Denon Link (3rd), it forces the "HDMI Audio Setup" selection to be 2 channel, not multi channel, even though it was set on multi channel prior to me selecting Denon Link (3rd). I believe this is why I'm only getting stereo and not 5.1 sound via Denon Link. How do I correct this?!? I've tried searching the other settings in the 2930's setup menu, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what to do. Selecting Denon Link removes the ability to adjust some of the 2930's settings. After all the posts I've read praising how good the Denon Link is at transmitting 5.1 sound, I'm eager to make this work!

FYI, I was playing one of the Star Wars DVD's when I tested this, so I should have been able to clearly hear 5.1 sound.
It is normal when you set the Denon Link on the 2930 for the HDMI to change to 2 channel. You can't change that but it doesn't matter. Forget about it. :)
Have you selected 5.1 in the DVD menu?
Try a SACD. Be sure to select Multi SACD with the remote control of the 2930.

On my 4806 there is a setting for "input mode" it should be set to AUTO (not EX In, DTS, or PCM). This is set by a separate button on the remote or front panel. I don't know how the 3808 does it.

jstraw97

12-11-07, 12:32 AM

Have you selected 5.1 in the DVD menu?
Try a SACD. Be sure to select Multi SACD with the remote control of the 2930.

Thanks for the tip about the HDMI setup. When I go to the Audio menu for the 2930. I have no access to any of the functions listed when Denon Link has been enabled, however the setting for Audio Channel is "multi channel" meaning 5.1 sound I would assume. Still, I get stereo sound via Denon Link. Unfortunately I don't have a SACD to test this with at the moment, though one will be arriving in the mail any day now.

On my 4806 there is a setting for "input mode" it should be set to AUTO (not EX In, DTS, or PCM). This is set by a separate button on the remote or front panel. I don't know how the 3808 does it.

For input mode on the 3808, there are two sub menus. One is called "input mode" and lists the options of Digital, Analog, EXT.IN, Auto, and HDMI. I currently have that set to "Digital" so the 3808 will pick up the Denon Link connection for audio over the HDMI connection I also have hooked from it to the 2930. The other menu is called "Decode Mode" and lists the options you mentioned for Auto, DTS, and PCM. I had already had it set to "Auto."

Anymore suggestions? I feel like I'm getting close to solving this!

MSmith83

12-11-07, 01:54 AM

For input mode on the 3808, there are two sub menus. One is called "input mode" and lists the options of Digital, Analog, EXT.IN, Auto, and HDMI. I currently have that set to "Digital" so the 3808 will pick up the Denon Link connection for audio over the HDMI connection I also have hooked from it to the 2930. The other menu is called "Decode Mode" and lists the options you mentioned for Auto, DTS, and PCM. I had already had it set to "Auto."

Anymore suggestions? I feel like I'm getting close to solving this!

It took me a bit of time to master the 4306's setup process, but the 3808CI seems to be a whole new league of confusion. :eek: I will try to help, however.

1.) It seems that you do indeed what the "assign" mode set to "digital." At this point, make sure the "D.Link" indicator lights up on the receiver when sending a signal from the player. It looks like you already have this part complete.

2.) You want the "input mode" set to "Auto." This is so every signal type (DSD, PCM, DD, and DTS) will be recognized.

3.) Press the "standard" button on your receiver's remote for the "surround mode" when you are sending a multichannel signal from the player. If you have it set to "stereo" when the player sends a multichannel signal, then the receiver is down-mixing everything to two channels. Pressing "standard" will make sure that all of the signal types are handled in the proper number of channels. You could also try pressing "direct" on the remote for troubleshooting purposes, but this will disengage some necessary speaker adjustment settings like bass management.

4.) Leave "decode mode" at "auto."

Start here and let us know how it turns out.

maphiker

12-11-07, 06:42 AM

jstraw97

12-11-07, 08:54 AM

Whoa! the Denon link does not send anything over the HDMI connection. The information is sent via the Denon link. I assume you have the Denon link cable in place between the 2930 and the receiver.

When you go into the DIGITAL menu, I believe you need to actually select DVD and then set the input to DL. Digital could be any of several inputs, e.g. coax, optical. I think you are missing this step.

Yes, I do have the Denon Link cable connecting the 3808 and the 2930. And when I go into the Digital menu (Source Select > DVD > Assign > Digital) I have Denon Link selected.

Another setting I've been looking at is the Input Mode (Source Select > DVD > Input Mode > Input Mode), which I have set to Digital instead of Auto, because when I have it set to auto it looks like the receiver is choosing the audio connection from the 2930 via HDMI rather than the Denon Link connection. Only when I select Digital for this setting does the 3808 choose the Denon Link signal.

Still don't understand why I'm getting only stereo sound via Denon Link :(

jstraw97

12-11-07, 08:58 AM

2.) You want the "input mode" set to "Auto." This is so every signal type (DSD, PCM, DD, and DTS) will be recognized.

If I set the "input mode" to auto, it appears the 3808 chooses the audio signal from the 2930 via HDMI, not the Denon Link connection. Only when I select "digital" for the input mode does the 3808 choose the Denon Link connection.

3.) Press the "standard" button on your receiver's remote for the "surround mode" when you are sending a multichannel signal from the player. If you have it set to "stereo" when the player sends a multichannel signal, then the receiver is down-mixing everything to two channels. Pressing "standard" will make sure that all of the signal types are handled in the proper number of channels. You could also try pressing "direct" on the remote for troubleshooting purposes, but this will disengage some necessary speaker adjustment settings like bass management.

This must be a difference between our two receivers. I cannot find any buttons labeled "standard" or "direct". But this line of thought is interesting: I know the 2930 is sending multi channel signal as I've seen it setup that way in the audio setup menu for the device. Therefore, it would seem that the receiver may be down mixing everything into two channels, as you mention, when Denon Link is used for some reason (I get beautiful 5.1 sound via HDMI when selected in the 3808 setup menu). How to get the 3808 not to downmix the audio signal, I have no idea, and I am of course assuming that is what's going on here.

4.) Leave "decode mode" at "auto.".

Already there

Start here and let us know how it turns out.

Still in the same place I've been in with the stereo signal with Denon Link enabled, but I do appreciate all the help. Please keep the ideas coming!

jstraw97

12-11-07, 09:03 AM

What about the setting called "Surround Mode"? Could this be my problem? The choices under this setting are Wide Screen, Super Stadium, Rock Arena, Jazz Club, Classic Concert, Mono Movie, Video Game, Matrix, Virtual, Stereo, Direct, Dolby PL II, DTS NEO:6, Neural, and 7CH Stereo. I currently and always had "Wide Screen" selected. Don't know if this helps; I'm grasping at straws now as to why I'm still getting stereo sound via Denon Link.

maphiker

12-11-07, 11:58 AM

jstraw97

12-11-07, 12:26 PM

Just a wild idea... try disconnecting the HDMI cable.:confused:

Have you tried the official 3808 thread? Seems your problems lie more with the AVR than the 2930.

At this point I'm all about trying wild ideas, so I'll do that when I get home. However, without the HDMI cable connected, how would video signal get through?

I looked in the official 3808 thread for posts about trouble with Denon Link, and while there were some similar ones, nothing addressed the problem I'm having with the 2930 > 3808 specifically. I'll try posting my problem in that thread to see if anyone has any feedback for me. Thanks for all your help, and if you think of anything else I might try please post your ideas!

maphiker

12-11-07, 05:30 PM

At this point I'm all about trying wild ideas, so I'll do that when I get home. However, without the HDMI cable connected, how would video signal get through?

I looked in the official 3808 thread for posts about trouble with Denon Link, and while there were some similar ones, nothing addressed the problem I'm having with the 2930 > 3808 specifically. I'll try posting my problem in that thread to see if anyone has any feedback for me. Thanks for all your help, and if you think of anything else I might try please post your ideas!

It seems to me you have somewhere still set audio to the HDMI. If I have anymore wild ideas I will let you know.:)

maphiker

12-11-07, 08:09 PM

At this point I'm all about trying wild ideas, so I'll do that when I get home. However, without the HDMI cable connected, how would video signal get through?

You may have to use component outs for the video. If this works, it sounds like a bug in the 3808.

Aaron S

12-11-07, 11:18 PM

....

This must be a difference between our two receivers. I cannot find any buttons labeled "standard" or "direct". ...

Its on your remote, the "C" button with STD label underneath.

Also behind the door, top left, labeled STANDARD.

maphiker

12-11-07, 11:58 PM

At this point I'm all about trying wild ideas, so I'll do that when I get home. However, without the HDMI cable connected, how would video signal get through?

I know it is very painful BUT.... You really should sit down and read through the manual. As badly as it is written you kind of get used to it after a while. No doubt you will have to read through it several times. Take it to bed with you. After a few days it will start making sense. After 6 months to a year you will be an expert. It gets to be fun. After all you spent a lot of money on a state of the art piece of equipment, you might as well get the most out of it.

That is truly what I did. (Not that I am an expert).:D

maphiker

12-12-07, 07:32 AM

I've run Audysee twice now and the calculations seem way off each time I've done it. It tells me my speakers are anywhere frorm 0.0 to 2.5 feet away when in fact they are approximately 9 feet away. I therefore don't really trust any of the other measurements it makes. I've followed the directions to the letter, mounting the mic on a tripod, and I took 8 measurements. That's why I've had to calibrate the speakers manually: the Audysee results seem bunk. Any reason as to why this would happen?

Maybe you should contact your dealer or Denon directly. Sounds like something is wrong. Try resetting the receiver. There should be directions to do this in the owners manual.

jstraw97

12-12-07, 09:52 AM

Maybe you should contact your dealer or Denon directly. Sounds like something is wrong. Try resetting the receiver. There should be directions to do this in the owners manual.

Thanks for all the help. I am getting 5.1 sound now through the Denon Link, and I'd like to see if Audyssey would help with calibrating my speakers just because, to me, it doesn't sound like the rear channels have nearly enough sound coming from them, like the fronts and center are dominating everything. I've calibrated manually as best I can, and I may go get one of those sound level meters to see if my manual calibration is accurate as far as the amount of sound coming from each speaker goes.

I'll also call Denon to see what the heck is going on with Audyssey. Oh, and I've actually already read through the manual a couple of times, and yes, I found it frustrating. Hopefully going through stuff like this will make me more of an expert. I do love this receiver!

maphiker

12-13-07, 01:16 PM

I'll also call Denon to see what the heck is going on with Audyssey. Oh, and I've actually already read through the manual a couple of times, and yes, I found it frustrating. Hopefully going through stuff like this will make me more of an expert. I do love this receiver!

Let us know what Denon says about the Audyssey.

Jon S

12-15-07, 12:00 AM

well, after two months being serviced in the New Jersey service center, i have just received word that my unit has been shipped to the distributor of my dealer. The distributor will send the unit to my dealer and then the dealer will ship to me.... no word as to what was done. I probably won't see it until the new year.

:(

jcarys

12-16-07, 04:18 PM

I'm curious if I've put my 3930 in a wierd operating state after checking the firmware (it's a new machine, so no need for an update), and beginning the region free sequence (although my player would never move to the next display, so again not done).

Now when I attempt to Close the drawer, I see Close on the display for a second, and then it flips back to Open, and the drawer actually pushes out a fraction of an inch. You can obviously push the drawer close, but even then it won't play the disc.

I've unplugged the AC overnight, hoping that would do a reset, but nothing has changed the behavior. Is there something else I should be doing to truly get a hard reset that might put this back into correct operation?

Thanks for any ideas.

jcarys

12-18-07, 11:35 AM

Re-initialize (play plus forward) does nothing to change the behavior. Thanks.

Jon S

12-20-07, 01:44 AM

Hooray!! After a long two months, my 3930 has returned to it's roost. Will hook it up tonight and test it out. they replaced the optical block, whatever that may be.

John Ballentine

12-20-07, 07:17 AM

Good luck! let us know what you think.

Myhnegon

12-21-07, 01:35 AM

Hello,
i have a Denon 3930 and an Onkyo TX-NR905, connected through HDMI. I get no Dolby Digital/DTS flag on my reciever, only stereo sound... and i have tested almost all available settings. Did anyone have this problem too and got a solution?

Thx

WestCoastD

12-21-07, 03:12 AM

You should be able to get 7.1 LPCM I believe, check out "Official" DVD-3930CI thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=666053&page=103

g0306321

12-21-07, 04:32 AM

You should be able to get 7.1 LPCM I believe, check out "Official" DVD-3930CI thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=666053&page=103

U know a SD DVD not enough to store multi-channel PCM track.

Myhnegon

12-21-07, 04:39 AM

the problem it seems, is, the Onkyo 905 can't handle PCM source correct. When i use my PS3 over HDMI (Bitstream configuration), the Onkyo shows the DD/DTS flags correctly. But when i use the 3930, it shows PCM source in the display and tho, only stereo sound.

When i use optical or coax cable for the audio from the 3930 to the onkyo, the DD/DTS flag is shown correctly.

So it seems to me, the Onkyo can only handle bitstream source correctly and the 3930 doesn't give out bitstream through HDMI -.-

Aaron S

12-21-07, 08:06 PM

Myhnegon

12-22-07, 01:14 AM

yea, as i said, i've tried any settings available. Nothing works. The 3930 is set to HDMI-Audio Multi(normal) and Denon link is off. The 3930 display shows 5.1 speakers, but the Onkyo display shows only 2 speakers and isn't getting any DD/DTS flag through HDMI. Only working if i use audio connection through coax/optical between the 3930 and the 905.

PS3 and 905 is working correctly through HDMI.

So i'm not sure which piece has the malfunction. The 3930 or the 905 <.<

deranged76

12-22-07, 06:39 AM

Aaron S

12-22-07, 07:34 AM

Myhnegon

12-22-07, 09:36 AM

didn't update firmware yet, but i'll try this weekend and let u know if something has changed

update
firmware update didn't help. Audio over HDMI is only PL IIx or DTS: Neo, but no DD/DTS. I guess i'll bring the Onkyo to the service, cuz i think i have the buggy one, cuz intro page from the 3930 is brightened and whatnot else. Hopefully the new video board will fix this HDMI audio too

Jon S

12-22-07, 06:24 PM

I`m about to buy Denon DVD-3930 second hand, about 1 year old... is there any bugs on the player that I might be facing... I mostly have PAL-dvd´s. And what are your opinions, is this THE best dvd-player on the market?

The Denon 3930 is probably the best DVD player I have seen. The only issues i have is that it is unreliable considering its $1500 price. My unit has been in the shop twice in six months. Once for a HDMI issue and the second was a bad optical block that kept locking up the player. Also the unit seems a bit sluggish responding to the remote. caveat emptor.

Reid_T

12-22-07, 06:50 PM

The Denon 3930 is probably the best DVD player I have seen. The only issues i have is that it is unreliable considering its $1500 price. My unit has been in the shop twice in six months. Once for a HDMI issue and the second was a bad optical block that kept locking up the player. Also the unit seems a bit sluggish responding to the remote. caveat emptor.

From a picture quality point of view, the 3930 is really exceptional - better than any other DVD player I've tried.

I agree the unit can be very sluggish, and unreliable. I've just sent mine back to the store because it keeps locking up. I don't know why. But the good news is they're ordering me a new one, which I've been assured will have a new 1 year warranty too.

-Reid

John Ballentine

12-23-07, 08:12 AM

The Rang

12-23-07, 10:55 AM

Once you get a good 3930 (lucky draw?) - you are good to go. This has been my experience w/ Denon over the years. My 3930 (second unit) has been perfect all year (hope I didn't just jinx it!:eek:)

And my one major complaint about this unit is it's sluggishness. Especially coming from the super speedy 2900.

WOW - this thread just passed 3,000 posts!:eek:

Luckily this has been my experience too.
My first 2930 had problems recognizing the SACD layer on hybrids that was getting progessively worse, second one was fine but traded up to the 3930 in March.
Once in a blue moon it won't read the SACD layer on a disc but it's usually when I get impatient and push "Play" before giving the player a chance to load (and we all know how long that takes!).
I open up the tray, reload and it has never failed to work the 2nd time around.

So far so good :)

deranged76

12-23-07, 12:49 PM

ak2000

12-23-07, 11:18 PM

I purchased the 3930CI for it's superior sound quality for audio playback, as well as it's high performance video and really don"t see the point in buying this high end of a Universal player for just DVD, unless you are getting the unit dirt cheap. So far my unit has been trouble free, but worried out the jinx I may now be putting on it :eek:

The Rang

12-24-07, 01:02 AM

So far my unit has been trouble free, but worried out the jinx I may now be putting on it :eek:

I've been thinking exactly the same thing about mine :o

Jon S

12-26-07, 09:24 PM

Hooray!! After a long two months, my 3930 has returned to it's roost. Will hook it up tonight and test it out. they replaced the optical block, whatever that may be.

SH*T!!! After using the DVD-3930CI for one week, the player is exhibiting the SAME problems I sent it in for. Inserting a disc from a standby state locks up the unit... The only way to have it working is to do a power off reset. This is terrible. In seven months, my unit has had to go in for service three times now for nearly three months (the first unit was exchanged)!! I feel this is unacceptable. This $1500 player is a piece of crap!! I have never seen anything as bad as this.

Denon has real problems with quality control ever since they moved production to China. To compound the issue, their U.S. service center went out the window when they merged with Marantz. Dealing with them is like pulling teeth...

:mad:

a_ok2me

12-26-07, 09:34 PM

This $1500 player is a piece of crap!! I have never seen anything as bad as this.Did you pay full retail price? Wondering if people with problems are buying their players for a good deal thinking it was new. I bought a remote from Dell for a good price thinking it was new. But it was defective and used because it was already opened. When I asked for a NEW replacement, they kept on sending used, opened, refurbished replacements with the same problems. I video taped myself, twice, opening each package to find an already opened box.

Jon S

12-26-07, 10:09 PM

Did you pay full retail price? Wondering if people with problems are buying their players for a good deal thinking it was new. I bought a remote from Dell for a good price thinking it was new. But it was defective and used because it was already opened. When I asked for a NEW replacement, they kept on sending used, opened, refurbished replacements with the same problems. I video taped myself, twice, opening each package to find an already opened box.

both the original and replacement units were NIB....

WestCoastD

12-27-07, 12:44 AM

After using the DVD-3930CI for one week, the player is exhibiting the SAME problems I sent it in forthat's too bad, sorry. It is [beyond] rediculous when you think about it.

John Ballentine

12-27-07, 07:40 AM

Definitely disappointing.:(

WestCoastD

12-27-07, 08:04 PM

Reid_T

12-27-07, 08:08 PM

Did you pay full retail price? Wondering if people with problems are buying their players for a good deal thinking it was new. .... I video taped myself, twice, opening each package to find an already opened box.

Is it the price you pay, or who you buy it from? I got it for much less than $1500, but I bought it NIB from The Home Theater Store. I'm pretty happy with them - when I told them about the problems I was having with the unit, they offered to replace it (under warranty) sight unseen with a new one.

(We'll see how that works out - I'm still waiting on it to arrive)

-Reid

ak2000

12-27-07, 08:25 PM

SH*T!!! After using the DVD-3930CI for one week, the player is exhibiting the SAME problems I sent it in for. Inserting a disc from a standby state locks up the unit... The only way to have it working is to do a power off reset. This is terrible. In seven months, my unit has had to go in for service three times now for nearly three months (the first unit was exchanged)!! I feel this is unacceptable. This $1500 player is a piece of crap!! I have never seen anything as bad as this.

Denon has real problems with quality control ever since they moved production to China. To compound the issue, their U.S. service center went out the window when they merged with Marantz. Dealing with them is like pulling teeth...

:mad:

That completely sucks and would be unacceptable to me. I would have demanded the dealer exchange the unit for a new one at the first problem. Most will do this with no problem IME.

transendance

12-27-07, 09:09 PM

I´m only gonna use this unit for dvd movies, I do not play any SACD´s or DVD-A´s, and I´m plannig to hook the player via optical to amplifier and with HDMI to my 50" pioneer Full HD,so I´m convinced that is safe to buy this player :) Thanks very much to all of you who responded.
Current sources: denon 3930ci, pioneer dv-05, denon 3808ci, pioneer 150fd (60" elite).

I have had the denon units and the plasma for 5-6 weeks now and they have performed perfectly!

I have a reasonably "hi-end" audio system, but my intention about the 3930ci was to end the question of whether the video scaling/upsampling was "good enough", since for me, at least for now, my most accessible viewing will be standard definition dvd rental.

(It seemed that the "realta" chip is about as good as gets these days for a reasonable price and is the chip used in the 3930).

My experience to date has been very favorable, there is simply no comparison between the quality of the image provided by the various options I have at hand,

denon 2808ci =DCDi by faroudja
pioneer elite = New ASIC Video Processing and Scaling
denon 3930ci = Realta T2™ HQV chip by Teranex

(All have their proponents and the elite plasma has been often reviewed has having first rate standard definition quality),

The output from the 3930ci is simply in another class from the rest of these options, consistently excellent and artifact free, hard to imagine any better unless you go to full high definition source!

Drawbacks? The Realta chip runs hot and may be the cause of the some of the reliability issues reported in these threads ( I use a 120mm Antec 3-speed computer fan as recommended by another post and it seems to noticeably reduce the case temp of the player). Is the Reon chip as good - I don't know. But so far I am consistently amazed at the detail and quality from this unit.

Sound quality is another factor and here I defer to others with more experience, from my experience so far the overall quality I hear, from a Movie viewing context, is that sound is more than adequate and if want more I believe I would have to spend much much more........... Just my 2 cents worth!

WestCoastD

12-28-07, 02:39 AM

The output from the 3930ci is simply in another class!you're exactly right. Sound-quality (2ch and 5.1ch) is superb as well.

The Rang

12-28-07, 11:20 AM

you're exactly right. Sound-quality (2ch and 5.1ch) is superb as well.

I have a Marantz SR-7000 receiver and for convenience sake am running the coax digital out from the Denon for movies on the assumption it's "good enough".

Given the age of my reciever, and considering the excellent DACs in the Denon, should I be using 6 channel analog outs instead?

WestCoastD

12-28-07, 12:14 PM

I have a Marantz SR-7000 receiver. Considering the excellent DACs in the Denon, should I be using 6 channel analog outs instead?Actually I use digital-coax for DVD-Movie multi-channel audio as well, and 5.1ch analog for multi-channel music (ie. SACD and DVD-A), and 2ch analog for stereo CD sources.

mr-ben

12-28-07, 02:23 PM

Actually I use digital-coax for DVD-Movie multi-channel audio as well, and 5.1ch analog for multi-channel music (ie. SACD and DVD-A), and 2ch analog for stereo CD sources.

Same here.

John Ballentine

12-29-07, 08:13 AM

Hey John:

How does the DVD-3930CI sound with your Onkyo PRSC-885 surround processor? Also, which amp are you using?

Yeah, I'm still getting things set-up with my NAD T175, I will let you know how everything works shortly:)

Hey Dave,
The 885 sounds fantastic so far. I'm mostly into Film sound - but do spin a SACD ever so often. My amp is the 100+ pound Outlaw 7 channel (200 watts per @ 8ohms). Probably not the best amp for critical music listening - but it's raw power really kicks A$$ w/ film sound. Anyway - very pleased w/ the new combo. The increased aggressiveness of my Bass has been most noticeable. But that can also be attributable to the lossless (DolbyTrueHD) and lossey (Dolby Digital+, DTS HD) soundtracks I'm now finally able to access. Anyway - still playing around with it. Love the menu system. Love the display screen (which can be completely turned off in "Pure Audio" mode). Nice to finally use HDMI out (for both audio and video) on the 3930 too. Let me know how your new set-up is going - and what you think of your new NAD.

Jon S

12-29-07, 12:24 PM

SH*T!!! After using the DVD-3930CI for one week, the player is exhibiting the SAME problems I sent it in for. Inserting a disc from a standby state locks up the unit... The only way to have it working is to do a power off reset. This is terrible. In seven months, my unit has had to go in for service three times now for nearly three months (the first unit was exchanged)!! I feel this is unacceptable. This $1500 player is a piece of crap!! I have never seen anything as bad as this.

Denon has real problems with quality control ever since they moved production to China. To compound the issue, their U.S. service center went out the window when they merged with Marantz. Dealing with them is like pulling teeth...

:mad:

After waiting on the phone for 60 minutes, I finally got thru to Denon's tech support. After discussing the problem with them, they said they will call me back next Tuesday as no one was available to make any decisions due to the holidays. after getting off the phone, i realized tuesday is jan 1. so very doubtful if i will ever get a call back that day. my guess is that they will contact me the following week.

Malleus

12-30-07, 07:35 PM

The Rang

12-31-07, 11:27 AM

I like to play hybrid SACD discs on my Denon 3930. More often than not, the disc is recognized as a CD instead of a SACD. How can I "force" the Denon player to default to SACD when SACD is available? I usually turn the unit on/off until the SACD lights up. Others here have posted similar concerns - would a firmware update address this issue?

This is probably stating the obvious but have you checked the Super Audio Set-Up button on the front of the machine? (Same button is on the remote)

This determines the default setting when playing a CD/SACD.
There are three choices: CD, Stereo and Multi.
The latter 2 are for SACD playback.

Some players have a hard time reading the SACD layer on hybrids including my first 2930. I think it's usually a player issue because the 2nd 2930 worked flawlessly.

Can't comment on firmware update....don't know enough on that aspect. Perhaps someone else here can comment.

Malleus

12-31-07, 01:41 PM

I keep the Supper Audio Set-Up button on "Multi" for SACD playback, thanks.

maphiker

12-31-07, 07:06 PM

I keep the Supper Audio Set-Up button on "Multi" for SACD playback, thanks.

You may want to check aound the various forums to determine what firmware version you have. I've updated the firmware on my 2930 with good results. I don't think it would hurt to get the latest firmware if you don't already have it. It will take a little detective work to get the firmware but it is available on the Denon Great Britian site. Some of the updates dealt with disc recognition problems.
However, what you describe does not sound normal. Can you return the unit to the store you purchased it from?

Malleus

12-31-07, 08:31 PM

maphiker

12-31-07, 08:53 PM

Yup, I'm thinking what you're thinking maphiker. I got through to Denon support today (working today) and I'm sending the unit in for repair under warranty. FWIW, the Denon rep was helpful but insisted the European updates were for European version only, not for the US. I'll check to see if they update the firmware for me, I'm curious to see.

Please let us know what they do. I bet they update the firmware. BTW, the European firmware updates are named in a way that implies they are for the 2930/2930CI (3930/3930CI). Also, others on this forum that purchase newer units have the newer firmware. So, go figure.
Good luck with Denon. Your repair may take longer than you would wish. Let's hope they made a New Years resolution to speed up the process :).

John Ballentine

12-31-07, 09:21 PM

Wonder when Denon is gonna have a replacement player for the 3930? Or if it's the last of it's breed?

WestCoastD

12-31-07, 10:58 PM

Wonder when Denon is gonna have a replacement player for the 3930? Or if it's the last of it's breed?I really don't see Denon adding a new SD DVD/Universal player in their line-up, I think they've captured just about everything in the DVD-3930CI. If anything they will release a DVD-3930CI "Version-2", with all the appropriate hardware and firmware fixes to make it work as advertised:D

I would only see HD players being developed from this point forward (I guess).

Happy New Year!

Fanboyz

12-31-07, 11:55 PM

If they still make new turntable advancements then dvd technology will continue to evolve.
The Denon 3940 could replace the 5910, and they could used two scaling soloutions: Use HQV T2 on film based dvds for deinterlacing and scaling. When video dvds are detected use DCDI to do video deinterlacing while the HQV T2 scales it.
Also use HDMI 1.3 to pass SACD as DSD or LPCM.
It should cost 1800 bucks.

Reid_T

01-01-08, 11:24 PM

Fanboyz

01-02-08, 12:43 AM

Scaled material wont be as good as marketing suggests.
I have a 2930 and a kds60a3000, HQV scaled dvd keep the images as it was on a crt.

WestCoastD

01-02-08, 01:59 AM

Nice to finally use HDMI out (for both audio and video) on the 3930 too. Let me know how your new set-up is goinghey John, since you're now using HDMI (for audio and video), are you still using digital-audio connection as well (optical or coax)? I'm contemplating whether to provide this connection while I still have physical access to the rear-panel.

Thanks

kucharsk

01-02-08, 06:17 AM

Here's a weird one:

If I insert disc 7, the "special features" disc from the 24: Season Six set, the 3930CI shows "Loading", then I hear a click, and the front display reads "Stop." I then can't do anything other than eject it.

The disc works just fine on every other DVD player I've tried, and all other DVDs I've tried work just fine on the 3930CI.

Anyone else with 24: Season Six and a 3930CI?

John Ballentine

01-02-08, 07:43 AM

hey John, since you're now using HDMI (for audio and video), are you still using digital-audio connection as well (optical or coax)? I'm contemplating whether to provide this connection while I still have physical access to the rear-panel.

Thanks

I'm only using one HDMI cable for each of my 3 disc players (BDPS1, A20, 3930). That's it. No optical - no coax. You would still need analog cable connection to play SACD's on 3930.

WestCoastD

01-02-08, 06:11 PM

I'm only using one HDMI cable for each of my 3 disc players (BDPS1, A20, 3930). That's it. No optical - no coax. You would still need analog cable connection to play SACD's on 3930.
thanks, I will not worry about optical or coax then. Although I am using 5.1ch analog (multi-channel) OUT connections for SACD, also providing 2ch analog connections for CD.

Quickster2

01-02-08, 06:40 PM

Has anyone (3930 owner) directly compared a 3930 (on SD material) vs either a BR or HD-DVD player (on HD material)? There are a few threads on this topic, but I'd like to hear from 3930 owners.

-Reid
I have a Panasonic Blu-ray -10A and can attest that on SD material the 3930 does a better job upconverting to 1080P. On HD Bu-ray discs at 1080P the upconverted signal from the 3930 is inferior.

Aaron S

01-05-08, 02:42 PM

MSmith83

01-05-08, 05:50 PM

To add to Aaron's findings, you can download the latest firmware for the 3930 through this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12024250&postcount=2951) by Dutchman01. Don't forget that you are using this at your own risk.

ak2000

01-06-08, 01:46 AM

bhrvatin

01-06-08, 10:02 AM

A couple of things that I've found with this player: 1) in order to output multi-channel SACD from 5.1 analog ouput, the HDMI audio must be set to 2 channel. 2) The Front L/R from the 5.1 outputs appear to be the same thing as the stereo L/R output when playing a stereo disc, either SACD or CD. I'm assuming that the stereo L/R outputs are redundant if using the 5.1 analog outputs with stereo source material.

I have been trying to squeeze every last bit of performance(hi-res audio) out of the 2930 for the past four weeks. It has become an obsession. If you read these forums, you will find that the bass management for hi-res inputs (via Denon Link) in the AVR-3805 is tricky and imperfect. So I have resorted to use the multi channel analog outputs on the 2930, "Ext In" on the 3805. I have become very familiar with all the 2930 settings, bass management etc. The two-channel analog outputs are the same as the 5.1 with the exception that they are always full range(no bass management.) Depending on your configuration, the L/R channels of the 5.1 output may not have full range output.

Are you using the "Bass Enhancer" or "Source Direct" functions? My favorite (and what I consider to be highest fidelity across DVD-A, SACD, 2Ch SACD, CD) setup is set all speakers to small, crossover at 80 Hz and turn on Bass Enhancer (to get the SW out on 2 ch material.) Then in the 3805 set the Ext In SW +15dB (in the System Setup, not the ch level.)

I have tried Source Direct and although the manual states that it boosts the SACD LFE channel by 15dB, I am not sure if this is true. Has anoyone else had a similar experience?

Also, I have noted that the AVR-3805 recognizes SACDs as DSD via Denon Link, but the status reports them as 88.something kHz 3/2/1, which smells like DSD is being transmitted as PCM, which might be why I have never been happy with SACD bass response through Denon Link.

(FYI my speakers are Paradigm Studio v3; Studio 60 L/R , CC-470 center, ADP-470 for SL/SR. My sub is a Velodyne SPL-1000 II)

maphiker

01-06-08, 10:58 AM

Also, I have noted that the AVR-3805 recognizes SACDs as DSD via Denon Link, but the status reports them as 88.something kHz 3/2/1, which smells like DSD is being transmitted as PCM, which might be why I have never been happy with SACD bass response through Denon Link.

Thanks for your observations. I do not normally use the 5.1 analog output s on my 2930, but I may wish to in the future.
One note on your last comment: It has been discussed in this forum and others, the Denon AVRs convert DSD to PCM in order to apply bass management, time delays and Audyssey. You can prevent the conversion by using pure direct mode and carefully turning off Main+LFE and Audyssey settings. Of course by doing so you lose Audyssey. Personally, I much prefer the sound when Audyssey is doing its job.

sergiohm

01-06-08, 11:09 AM

...
Also, I have noted that the AVR-3805 recognizes SACDs as DSD via Denon Link, but the status reports them as 88.something kHz 3/2/1, which smells like DSD is being transmitted as PCM, which might be why I have never been happy with SACD bass response through Denon Link.

That is because you are not using DIRECT or PURE DIRECT in the AVR-3805. If you apply any processing (Stereo, PLIIx modes, etc.) it will convert DSD to PCM. According to the manual the channel levels and surround parameters (that is, Bass Management) is the same as in the other modes but Audyssey EQ is not applied (in PURE DIRECT/DIRECT).

Crazytrekker

01-06-08, 12:06 PM

Something funny about the 2930...

If I program a CD for playback, let's say track 1, 2, 3, 8 and 10, I sometimes find that the player misses the very start of a track. It can happen when playing track 2 having just played track 1, or playing track 8 having skipped from track 3. It doesn't happen on every track, but you can guarantee it'll happen at least once on every program.

Playing a programmed CD properly seems like one of the basic functions of a CD machine, even one that was primarily designed to play DVDs.

Is this a known problem? Is there a fix?

I am already using the latest firmware. Thanks!

bhrvatin

01-06-08, 03:56 PM

That is because you are not using DIRECT or PURE DIRECT in the AVR-3805. If you apply any processing (Stereo, PLIIx modes, etc.) it will convert DSD to PCM. According to the manual the channel levels and surround parameters (that is, Bass Management) is the same as in the other modes but Audyssey EQ is not applied (in PURE DIRECT/DIRECT).

Sergio thanks for your comments, you are absolutely correct - when I saw the 88.1 kHz it was in "Multi Ch In" mode (with SACDs). "Multi Ch Direct" mode doesn't give any sampling frequency. So I will assume that the AVR-3805 is receiving DSD via the Denon Link. However, this arrangement is where the subwoofer output is the weakest - and is surely because my AVR-3805 is NOT boosting the incoming LFE track (which it should be doing to properly process SACD.)

The "LFE, subwoofers and interconnects explained" forum in the "AVS Forum > Audio Area > Audio theory, Setup and Chat" area describes the way different formats are encoded/decoded (and why boosting the SW output isn't the correct fix). This helped to confirm my suspicions.

This has been driving me bananas for a while, but I never investigated. I had all the faith that my AVR in direct mode was doing its job. 2ch CD, 2ch SACD and 2ch DVD-A sounded PERFECT (all bass managed by the AVR, SW getting a good workout), but multich DVD-A and SACD did not have the bass response like the 2ch(especially SACD.) Going to the 5.1 analog out on the DVD-2930 was night and day. I don't use RoomEQ (please don't ask me why - it is like asking one religion to adopt the beliefs of another.) :)

It also doesn't help that the Denon manuals are incomplete when it comes to describing HOW bass management works in each of the modes (PD, D, Stereo, Standard DD/DTS, etc.)

All that said, I am really happy with the analog output of the 2930. And since I am not using the Denon Link anymore, I won't miss it when I replace my AVR with an Anthem Statement D2 in the near future. (I bought an A5 a couple of months ago and all the critical listening I have been doing brought the SACD/BM issue to light.)

Bart

WestCoastD

01-06-08, 04:52 PM

Going to the 5.1 analog out on the DVD-2930 was night and day.I use 5.1ch analog out's on my DVD-3930CI exclusively, I love it. I kept playing around with bass management settings, SOURCE DIRECT, etc.,...I eventually, somehow, figured out to set all speakers to LARGE (on the player) and enabled SOURCE DIRECT. On processor side (using a Yamaha RX-V2700 then) I set all speakers for SMALL except for (floorstanding) front's, which I set for LARGE. The sound was absolutely beautiful!, combined with boosted bass.

It also doesn't help that the Denon manuals are incomplete when it comes to describing HOW bass management worksor describing how [anything] works!:)

maphiker

01-06-08, 06:22 PM

I use 5.1ch analog out's on my DVD-3930CI exclusively, I love it.

Interesting! I may have to try the 5.1 analog outs on my 2930, right now I have used exclusively the Denon Link.

Have you guys considered that the 2930 has advanced DACs that may out-perform those in your receiver. The 3930 DACs are even better. Could this explain the better performance of the analog outs as compared to receiver processing via the Denon link?

I don't have all the specs of your equipment so I really don't know. Just a thought....

WestCoastD

01-06-08, 07:47 PM

I may have to try the 5.1 analog outs on my 2930, right now I have used exclusively the Denon Link.....yes, definitely worth experimenting. Although the cool thing with Denon-Link is you can take advantage of DSD for SACD (if you have a capable Denon receiver), this should be nice. I guess you can have both connections so you can compare.

Have you guys considered that the 2930 has advanced DACs that may out-perform those in your receiver. The 3930 DACs are even better. Could this explain the better performance of the analog outs as compared to receiver processing via the Denon link?....yes, both, the DVD-2930CI and DVD-3930CI, use BurrBrown DAC's just different models (part No.'s). However, you would have to play around with both modes (Denon-Link and 5.1ch analog multi-channel OUT's) and compare.

SirJohnFalstaff

01-07-08, 02:38 PM

Has anyone (3930 owner) directly compared a 3930 (on SD material) vs either a BR or HD-DVD player (on HD material)? There are a few threads on this topic, but I'd like to hear from 3930 owners.

-Reid

I own the 3930 and have compared it to certain HD-DVD's on my 118" screen. Although the 3930 produces the best picture and sound I've ever known from a DVD, it's not nearly as good as HD-DVD's or Blu-ray on that size of an image. Maybe the difference wouldn't be as noticable on a smaller screen?

bhrvatin

01-07-08, 02:47 PM

yes, definitely worth experimenting. Although the cool thing with Denon-Link is you can take advantage of DSD for SACD (if you have a capable Denon receiver), this should be nice. I guess you can have both connections so you can compare.

yes, both, the DVD-2930CI and DVD-3930CI, use BurrBrown DAC's just different models (part No.'s). However, you would have to play around with both modes (Denon-Link and 5.1ch analog multi-channel OUT's) and compare.

Interestingly, the (my gear) AVR-3805 and DVD-2930CI share the same Burr-Brown PCM-1791 DACs, which to my ears sound the same - for 2 channel. And they both have the AL24 Plus, whatever on earth that is supposed to do besides take up marketing space on the front panel. I would also bet that the 2 channel bass management software between both AVR and disc player are identical as well.

WestCoastD

01-07-08, 04:34 PM

Interestingly, the (my gear) AVR-3805 and DVD-2930CI share the same Burr-Brown PCM-1791 DACsyeah, they may as well have equal BurrBrown DAC models.

PooperScooper

01-07-08, 05:24 PM

I own the 3930 and have compared it to certain HD-DVD's on my 118" screen. Although the 3930 produces the best picture and sound I've ever known from a DVD, it's not nearly as good as HD-DVD's or Blu-ray on that size of an image. Maybe the difference wouldn't be as noticable on a smaller screen?
It would have to be a pretty small screen. :) There's no substitute for more bits in the source.

larry

maphiker

01-07-08, 07:18 PM

Interestingly, the (my gear) AVR-3805 and DVD-2930CI share the same Burr-Brown PCM-1791 DACs, which to my ears sound the same - for 2 channel. And they both have the AL24 Plus, whatever on earth that is supposed to do besides take up marketing space on the front panel. I would also bet that the 2 channel bass management software between both AVR and disc player are identical as well.

Also for what it's worth, my 4806 shares the same Burr-Brown DACs as the 2930.

Jon S

01-07-08, 09:52 PM

my upscaled DVD on the 3930 is nowhere close to true HD. It's better than 480P, but not like real HD. Colors and contrast is way better on my PS3 in hidef.

Reid_T

01-07-08, 10:29 PM

Also for what it's worth, my 4806 shares the same Burr-Brown DACs as the 2930.

Oddly, the 3930 has slightly better DACs than the 4806 (PCM 1796 vs PCM 1791), so if you use Denon Link, in order to use the Audyssey stuff in the 4806, you end up not using the 3930 DAC's. Bummer. :confused: Although the difference in specs if fairly small, so is the price difference ($1US.) So you have to wonder why Denon skimps on the DAC's used in an expensive receiver. (I would guess its more related to the age of the receiver...)

Still, it sounds very good to my ears.

-Reid

Reid_T

01-07-08, 11:07 PM

Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I'm not surprised that HD looks better, and I'm also not surprised that the 3930 does better upconversion in general. For my money, its appropriate that the HD players don't do "great" upconversion - they should focus on HD.

The perceived difference between HD and upconverted SD ought to depend to some degree on the display resolution and size. I would expect to see a substantial difference with a 1080p projector on a large screen, less so on a small screen and/or a 720p resolution.

That said, I'm currently using a 720p projector, with a 125" screen (and a 3930). On a well mastered DVD (like a Superbit transfer), from around 14 feet, it looks, to my eye, pretty flawless.

On the other hand, I've been waiting two weeks now for my replacement 3930 to show up, and in its absence, well, I've developed a wandering eye. I hate to buy HD before the format war is over, particularly if it wouldn't be a compelling difference over a 3930 in my setup.

My current thinking is that it probably makes sense to wait until I have a 1080p projector (a few years), at which point the format war ought to be over - one can hope.

Make sense?

-Reid

WestCoastD

01-08-08, 12:29 AM

it probably makes sense to wait until I have a 1080p projector (a few years), at which point the format war ought to be over - one can hopebut I thought the format war just came to an end?:)........
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969114

jkscherk

01-08-08, 09:16 AM

I was in a similar situation. 3930 going to a Sharp 12000 720p projector. I just added the Toshiba A-35 HD-DVD player this weekend. I compared '300' using the 3930 upscaling to 720p v. the A-35 outputting 720p. On my 92" diagonal screen, there was a noticeable difference. The A-35 was better. Not so much in the details visible, but more pronouced differences in picture color, depth, and sense of 3-dimensionality.

DJSloan

01-08-08, 06:30 PM

I just stepped up from my old Hitachi 51UWX to a new Sony 60A3000. Hooked it up to the same Denon 3930 now at YPbPr@1080P instead of RGB@1080i. The detail and color is amazing but I have a problem.

** On 2.35:1 material it appears that the first and last few horizontal lines adjacent to the black letterbox are brighter than the rest of the picture. At viewing distance it looks like a horizontal black line between these brighter areas and the rest of the image.

It looks like it may be some kind of Edge Enhancement. But the edge enhancement and detail enhancement on the TV are set to off. It was the worst on LOTR:RTK but I notice it on all DVDs to some extent. I haven't been able to find any 2.35:1 on cable to test with a different source.

Are there any settings on the 3930 that could be causing this?

[Also posted in XXA3000 thread re: TV settings]

SirJohnFalstaff

01-10-08, 12:43 PM

maphiker

01-11-08, 07:05 AM

yes, both, the DVD-2930CI and DVD-3930CI, use BurrBrown DAC's just different models (part No.'s). However, you would have to play around with both modes (Denon-Link and 5.1ch analog multi-channel OUT's) and compare.

According to the Texas Instruments (Burr Brown) specifications, the PCM-1796 DAC (in the DVD3930) has a dynamic range of 122 dB and a Signal to Noise ratio of 123 dB.

The PCM-1791 DAC (in the 2930) has a dynamic range of 113 dB and a Signal to Noise ratio of 113 dB.

I am not an engineer but it sounds to me like the 3930 has better DACs. If the price difference is truely $1.00 (?), I am a little disappointed in Denon for not using the better DAC in both players.

Anthony A.

01-11-08, 03:24 PM

has anyone done a comparison between the video output (sd dvd) betweent the 2930 player and a pre/pro that uses the same reon chip such as the onkyo?

Reid_T

01-11-08, 06:47 PM

According to the Texas Instruments (Burr Brown) specifications, the PCM-1796 DAC (in the DVD3930) has a dynamic range of 122 dB and a Signal to Noise ratio of 123 dB.

The PCM-1791 DAC (in the 2930) has a dynamic range of 113 dB and a Signal to Noise ratio of 113 dB.

I am not an engineer but it sounds to me like the 3930 has better DACs. If the price difference is truely $1.00 (?), I am a little disappointed in Denon for not using the better DAC in both players.

Correct, the 3930 DACs are better, and 10db is not insignificant, although they are both good DACs. It is disappointing though, particularly because the prices are so low anyway - $4.31 vs $3.31, IIRC. But as I said, I suspect it has more to do with what DAC's were available when they *designed* the unit, and not on today's prices. Still, you have to wonder about the economics of $3-4 component selection in a $3500 receiver. If it were up to me, for a high-end receiver, you would design in the best DACs available (say, $10) and pass the cost on to the consumer, with the benefit that you can claim to have the best DAC's available.

-Reid

maphiker

01-11-08, 08:15 PM

Correct, the 3930 DACs are better, and 10db is not insignificant, although they are both good DACs. It is disappointing though, particularly because the prices are so low anyway - $4.31 vs $3.31, IIRC. But as I said, I suspect it has more to do with what DAC's were available when they *designed* the unit, and not on today's prices. Still, you have to wonder about the economics of $3-4 component selection in a $3500 receiver. If it were up to me, for a high-end receiver, you would design in the best DACs available (say, $10) and pass the cost on to the consumer, with the benefit that you can claim to have the best DAC's available.

-Reid

Just out of curiosity, what DAC do you consider to be much better or the best available today?

MSmith83

01-11-08, 08:34 PM

Just out of curiosity, what DAC do you consider to be much better or the best available today?

The Burr-Brown PCM-1792 and Wolfson WM8741 DACs are among the best of the best in "reasonably" priced consumer electronics.

Denon's AVR-5805 and DVD-5910 use Burr-Brown's PCM-1792 DACs. An important consideration is that differences among top quality DACs are almost always indiscernible in normal home theater environments when listening at normal volumes. It's also important to consider that there are other factors that more significantly impact audio quality.

maphiker

01-11-08, 10:22 PM

The Burr-Brown PCM-1792 and Wolfson WM8741 DACs are among the best of the best in "reasonably" priced consumer electronics.
It's also important to consider that there are other factors that more significantly impact audio quality.

Thanks for your comment MSmith. What other factors impact audio quality in a receiver such as the AVR5805 or 4806? I would like to learn more.

MSmith83

01-11-08, 10:58 PM

Thanks for your comment MSmith. What other factors impact audio quality in a receiver such as the AVR5805 or 4806? I would like to learn more.

The other factors that I refer to are things like our listening environments. In terms of developing a most pleasing and accurate sound, things like room treatments are very important. If room treatments are out of the question, then EQ processing can be very helpful.

If we are to discuss things that significantly affect audio quality and are within the AVR's control, then we should consider the quality of the digital signal processor (DSP). Some manufacturers handle bits better than others before feeding the DACs with the resulting audio. I think Amir from Microsoft put it best when explaining the different DSP processes in another thread. Below is what he had to say concerning a scenario of feeding a DSP a 24-bit audio signal.

You have a 24-bit number coming into the AVR. You have base processing so the the signal needs to have its level reduced by 5%. Surely that creates a fraction on an integer 24-bit number. Right? Then you want to filter the same signal to reduce its low frequencies to direct to the sub. That is going to involve more fractional processing.

For the sub, you would need to add the base from all the channels and channels and with each being 24-bits, it is clear that you may end up with more than 24-bits as the output.

So one way or the other, the system needs more than 24-bits internally to properly process 24-bit signals.

There are two solutions to this:

1. Use integer math but divide it into whole numbers and fractions. You could for example, have 24 bits for the whole part of the number, and another 8 bits for the fraction. Most DSPs are integer parts so this is a more common solution.

2. Use floating point numbers. This lets you go to up to 64 bits and provide ample headroom. PCs have floating math for free so that is why we use them in Vista. Few DSPs have floating point math so it is less often used.

Now, when you are done with the math, you must bring the resolution down to 24-bits because that is all the DAC understands. So guess what, you must apply dither!

Unfortunate, you have no visibility into how good the processing is inside your AVR. People could be truncating things, not having sufficient resolution, not applying dither, etc. Company like Meridian which has top DSP designers, is going to do it right. Same for some of the high-end companies. But many others buy a DSP reference design, combine various algorithms together, and hopefuly, hopefully arriving at correct results.

Considering what Amir said, it is difficult to determine how manufacturers handle the DSP process. Compared to many of the other mainstream CE manufacturers, Denon has a more sophisticated way of handling its DSP algorithms in their upper level AVRs like the 4306, 4308, 4806, and 5805. Through what they call AL24, they up-convert the bit-depth before engaging operations like bass management and time delay. They then up-sample the sampling rate right before feeding the DACs, resulting in the DACs to perform in a near optimal state. With respect to the 4306, 4806, and 5805, AL24 is only applied to PCM signals. It is disengaged when feeding one of these AVRs with a Dolby Digital, DTS, or DSD bit-stream.

I can tell you first hand that AL24 does lower the noise floor to the point where noise is barely audible when putting my ears directly against the speakers and having the volume very high. With AL24 disengaged, the noise floor is still quite low but much more noticeable. Regardless of the situation, the Burr-Brown PCM-1791 DACs in my Denon 4306 are definitely more than up to the task of driving my modest speakers.

All that said, low quality DACs are very bad and undesirable. I once owned a Pioneer Elite 84 receiver that had so much DAC-related noise that it was easily noticeable from my normal listening position.

maphiker

01-12-08, 08:43 AM

If we are to discuss things that significantly affect audio quality and are within the AVR's control, then we should consider the quality of the digital signal processor (DSP).

Thanks MSmith (and Amir) for that concise explanation. The 4806 has 32 bit floating point processing. Does that mean it can go up to 64 bits? (Dumb question, but it's unclear to me).

I realize that this discussion may belong in another thread but these factors will affect the audio quality of the 2930/3930 as well. So, from a theoretical point of view, is it better to have these units do the processing and use the analog outs? Or is it better to let the receiver do the processing? Assume that I am using a top "consumer level" receiver like the 4906/5805. Note that I said "theoretical." Obviously, the sound is in the ear of the beholder.

Please be careful putting your ear next to speakers at high volumes, doing so can result in very poor audio quality! :D

MSmith83

01-12-08, 10:44 AM

Thanks MSmith (and Amir) for that concise explanation. The 4806 has 32 bit floating point processing. Does that mean it can go up to 64 bits? (Dumb question, but it's unclear to me).

It would be operating at a maximum of 32 bits, which I believe would provide enough headroom. Denon's newest AVRs have dual 32-bit DSPs, where certain functions are offset to a particular DSP. For instance, bit up-conversion and audio codec decoding occur on the first DSP, while bass management and other speaker setting adjustments occur on the other. I think Amir's use of 64 bits comes from conventional processing that occurs in the Windows Vista environment, which he used for further explanation of the DSP process. I haven't seen any of the mainstream AVR manufacturers go beyond 48-bit for single chip DSP solutions.

I realize that this discussion may belong in another thread but these factors will affect the audio quality of the 2930/3930 as well. So, from a theoretical point of view, is it better to have these units do the processing and use the analog outs? Or is it better to let the receiver do the processing? Assume that I am using a top "consumer level" receiver like the 4906/5805. Note that I said "theoretical." Obviously, the sound is in the ear of the beholder.

I will assume that both the player and AVR have all of the speaker settings that you need and want. Unlike with the 4306, 4806 and 5805, using analog with Denon's 2930/3930 players lets you get AL24 applied to all audio formats except DST from SACDs. This makes sense considering the extra workload of having to decode the DST codec and then convert the resulting DSD signal to PCM if you are using speaker adjustment settings, or the fact that AL24 is not meant for the DSD environment when sending the signal straight to the DACs.

There is also the theoretical argument that using analog on the player-side lets you bypass jitter introduced by digital transmission. Jitter can be quite high for SPDIF transmission, and even higher when using HDMI. Denon Link and some implementations of i.Link are very good at minimizing jitter distortion. This post (http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?forum=51&topic=29973) of an article measuring jitter shows one scientific analysis of the amounts of jitter attributed to the different digital interconnects. Whether we mere mortals can hear increased amounts of jitter is another question.

Please be careful putting your ear next to speakers at high volumes, doing so can result in very poor audio quality! :D

:D I should have added that I conducted the experiments during long silent passages of the same audio tracks and timestamps, making hiss noise most apparent and keeping me from going deaf.

maphiker

01-13-08, 09:00 PM

I will assume that both the player and AVR have all of the speaker settings that you need and want. Unlike with the 4306, 4806 and 5805, using analog with Denon's 2930/3930 players lets you get AL24 applied to all audio formats except DST from SACDs. This makes sense considering the extra workload of having to decode the DST codec and then convert the resulting DSD signal to PCM if you are using speaker adjustment settings, or the fact that AL24 is not meant for the DSD environment when sending the signal straight to the DACs.
There is also the theoretical argument that using analog on the player-side lets you bypass jitter introduced by digital transmission. Jitter can be quite high for SPDIF transmission, and even higher when using HDMI. Denon Link and some implementations of i.Link are very good at minimizing jitter distortion.

Thanks for your interesting comments.

I am using the Denon Link, so assuming jitter is not significant, the player analog outs will not offer much advantage for listening to DVDA or SACD. The 4806 will apply AL24 to LPCM and, as you point out above, AL24 is not appropriate for DSD. Interestingly, the 4806 converts DSD to PCM for bass management, so AL24 may get applied by the receiver.

You suggest an advantage for decoding DD and DTS via the player because AL24 will get applied to the signal.

Another factor to consider for most receivers is that Audyssey can only be used for digital signals processed by the receiver (I am not sure about the 5805).

MSmith83

01-14-08, 12:30 AM

Another factor to consider for most receivers is that Audyssey can only be used for digital signals processed by the receiver (I am not sure about the 5805).

Certainly. If someone relies on Audyssey for room correction, then that should trump all theoretical and practical advantages to using the player's analog section.

Even though I don't use Audyssey and have my speaker crossovers set to a simple 80Hz across the board, I still connect my 2930CI to the AVR-4306 via Denon Link. My HTPC utilizes my AVR's 7.1 analog input, but I am definitely liking the sound that I get with my current 2930/4306 configuration. I like the sound so much that I will be keeping my 2930 merely for listening to DVD-Audio discs and SACDs.

maphiker

01-14-08, 06:32 AM

I like the sound so much that I will be keeping my 2930 merely for listening to DVD-Audio discs and SACDs.

I certainly agree!

John Ballentine

01-15-08, 04:30 PM

I just pre-ordered the Denon DVD-2500BTCI Blu-ray transport
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3804.asp
No firm ETA yet (2 weeks?)
I'll be comparing it's SD DVD playback capability (No Realta?) directly against my 3930. Hopefully it maintains the seamless layer change. And hopefully it's a speedier machine than the 3930 (e.g. menu navigation, chapter skips, FF, REW, etc.) I still miss my venerable 2900 in this regard. Man that machine was super fast at everything it did. Virtual speed Demon.

WestCoastD

01-16-08, 03:54 PM

I just pre-ordered the Denon DVD-2500BTCI Blu-ray transport. I'll be comparing it's SD DVD playback capability (No Realta?) directly against my 3930cool!........will be interesting to hear your thoughts. I would imagine your Onkyo surround-processor should work good with this player.

Actually I just pre-ordered the up-and-coming Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD BluRay player. While it is planned to be profile 1.1 (I don't care) it will have on-board decoding of all new HD audio formats, including DTS-HD MasterAudio (did'nt want to fork-out $2000.00 for the Denon DVD-3800BDCI to get on-board decoding). This is important as my NAD T175 processor does not have decoding capability (on-voard) for these formats, although in the future they may have firmware updates to do so.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724&page=7

John Ballentine

01-17-08, 08:01 AM

The Pioneer BDP-05FD is a gorgeous looking machine. I understand it's been completely re-engineered from the ground up:). I love the look, feel and performance of Pioneer Elite equipment. I'll put the Denon 2500 through the ringer for the first 30 days (trial period) - and if it doesn't fly - I'll be picking up a BDP-05FD. (you obviously pre-ordered your unit through the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa).

Either way - my gut feeling is I'll be keeping my 3930 for SD DVD playback. IMHO - it can't be beat in this regard. Anyway - I'd be lucky to recoup 35-40% of my investment if I were to sell it (check e-bay:(). Geeeze - I could own both the 2500 - and the BDP-05FD for the cost of the Denon 3800:eek:!

WestCoastD

01-17-08, 04:46 PM

I love the look, feel and performance of Pioneer Elite equipment. you obviously pre-ordered your unit through the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa yeah, I pre-ordered through Costa Mesa store (their premier outlet). Pioneer make's very nice equipment, especially their plasma displays (of course). I just got a new PDP-4280HD 42 inch Kuro plasma display, can't wait to try everything out..

I'll be keeping my 3930 for SD DVD playback, it can't be beat in this regard I'll be keeping my DVD-3930CI for, primarily, SACD/DVD-A's and SD DVD's (can't beat it).

I could own both the 2500 - and the BDP-05FD for the cost of the Denon 3800I think DVD-3800BDCI is way over-priced.

John Ballentine

01-17-08, 05:12 PM

I think DVD-3800BDCI is way over-priced.

Yep - but I bet they sell every one they make. For lotsa people out there - price is no object.

My #1 and #2 concern w/ the new Denon 2500 is quality control and customer support. Both have been lacking w/ my previous two Denon players (2900, 3930). I've yet to see a single legit firmware update for the 3930. Still running my original from last March. But my second 3930 has been perfect (as has my 2900 since being repaired) so maybe I shouldn't complain. The Pioneers on the other hand - have received a steady diet of firmware updates for every BD machine.

I wonder where these newer generation players will be assembled? China?

WestCoastD

01-17-08, 09:26 PM

Yep - but I bet they sell every one they make. For lotsa people out there - price is no object.?your right.

My #1 and #2 concern w/ the new Denon 2500 is quality control and customer support. Both have been lacking w/ my previous two Denon players (2900, 3930). I've yet to see a single legit firmware update for the 3930. Still running my original from last March. But my second 3930 has been perfect (as has my 2900 since being repaired) so maybe I shouldn't complain. The Pioneers on the other hand - have received a steady diet of firmware updates for every BD machineyeah, that's partly what my "over-priced" speculation is based on- the fact that their current line of products (especially disk-transport items) have had very well documented quality issues/failures, and support is flakey, combined with arrogant pricing. Although Denon's product designs are leading-edge in terms of concept and function, it's just a matter of having a solid working unit. But after my experience with the DVD-3930CI (failing) I'm less apt to jump to the DVD-3800BDCI.

I'm figuring if Pioneer and others produce these next-generation BluRay products with on-board decoding, such as the BDP-05FD, at these price levels ($900.00 retail), Denon may be forced to compete on price.

I wonder where these newer generation players will be assembled? China?most-likely..............I wish this over-sea's production crap would change somehow, I'm sick of it (but maybe I'm dreaming:cool:)

Jon S

01-21-08, 09:34 PM

After waiting on the phone for 60 minutes, I finally got thru to Denon's tech support. After discussing the problem with them, they said they will call me back next Tuesday as no one was available to make any decisions due to the holidays. after getting off the phone, i realized tuesday is jan 1. so very doubtful if i will ever get a call back that day. my guess is that they will contact me the following week.

Well, after three weeks, no calls from Denon (as expected) even though two people said they would return my call. DENON SERVICE SUCKS!!!!! DON"T BUY DENON!!!

:mad:

John Ballentine

01-21-08, 09:41 PM

You have to keep after them. Squeaky gear gets the grease...

a_ok2me

01-21-08, 09:55 PM

Well, after three weeks, no calls from Denon (as expected) even though two people said they would return my call. DENON SERVICE SUCKS!!!!! DON"T BUY DENON!!!

:mad:Even though I don't have problems, I have had a hard time getting trough to them just to make an inquiry.

I've had good responses from Pioneer. It's a shame Pioneer is inventive, makes really good products ie TV and is responsive. But their audio and dvd products are good, but not the greatest. Denon on the other hand does not invent anything, has poor support, but is good at taking other inventions to build a great product - when it works.

Jon S

01-22-08, 09:45 PM

called Denon, placed on hold. waited an hour and finally gave up.

John Ballentine

01-23-08, 07:09 AM

Can you e-mail them?

WestCoastD

01-23-08, 03:53 PM

Finally got my DVD-3930CI back up and running after going through servicing (in New Jersey) a few months back, it seems to be operating fine.

I have a new system set-up including a new NAD T175 surround-processor combined with a Parasound Halo A51 amp (250W X 5) and Monitor Audio GS-Series speakers (GS-60 fronts, GS-LCR center).

All I can say is CD's and SACD's sound absolutely beautiful from Denon's analog OUT's (both 2ch and 5.1ch OUT's), through NAD processor, Halo amp and Monitor Audio speakers. SACD function seems to be working smooth (ie. with hybrid and non-hybrid disc's) so far ("knock on wood").

Although I'm not sure I have things set properly on the Denon: I'm using the SOURCE DIRECT function, all speakers are set for LARGE on the Denon side (as per note on page 24 in manual). While on the NAD processor side I have fronts set for LARGE, center and rears set for SMALL, and sub is OFF (I like bass through GS-60 fronts). But sometimes I seem to be missing material from the center, it seems "attenuated", the song does'nt sound normal (missing lead vocals or instruments typically). However when I pay in 2-channel mode things sound balanced. Don't know if this is a problem, or setting, on the NAD side or Denon player?

Also, now that I'm using HDMI on Denon (for DVD movies) I have HDMI audio set-up set for "MULTI-CHANNEL". However when I play SACD's via-5.1ch analog OUT's I'm getting only stereo (2-chan) output. When I go into Denon menu and reset HDMI audio back to 2-chan the SACD output seems to play full 5.1. Don't know wht should be appropriate configuration here?

PetDMC

01-23-08, 11:39 PM

Hmm i'll post this here since i don't want to start my own thread.

Anyway I bought the 2930CI in Nov online, last week I got my 5080hd. So I hooked up the HDMI and switched the output to 1080P from the DVD player. Looks great but now I have a blue line down the middle of the screen, I e-mailed Denon about this but I haven't heard back.

At 720P its towards the right edge. Sucks that I have to use 480P just not to get the blue line of dots.

So has anyone else come across this problem or am I alone?

Abe Hayhurst

01-24-08, 12:28 AM

I currently own a Denon DVD-1930 which I am using with a Denon AVR-3808ci and a Sony KD-34XBR970 (1080i CRT display). All are connected via HDMI.

I am considering replacing the DVD-1930 with the DVD-2930ci. My sole interest is increased picture quality. Since I am connecting everything via HDMI, DACs are not a concern. The main difference would be the DVD-1930 using a Faroudja chip for deinterlacing and scaling vs. the DVD-2930ci using the Reon chip for deinterlacing and scaling.

When I compare upsampling to 720p vs. 1080i on the DVD-1930 (and on my Xbox 360 Elite) I notice that there is less combing and artifacts at 720p vs. 1080i. I believe, but do not know for sure, that this is because the 480i signal from the DVD is getting deinterlaced and then upsampled when outputting at 720p, but is not getting deinterlaced and then upsampled when outputting at 1080i.

The end result is images are smoother and have no visible combing and artifacting at 720p but are somewhat soft. At 1080i, some DVDs have visible combing and artifacting but the image is sharper. I am hoping to have my cake and eat it, too. The last is9sues is I have noticed the Macro-Block Enhance issue on some movies (dark scenes in Batman Begins, for example).

Does anyone know which is better at upsampling DVD to 1080i, the Faroudja or Reon?

Do you think the Reon will look noticably better or worse than the Faroudja?

Thanks,

Abe Hayhurst

Reid_T

01-24-08, 04:16 PM

Do you think the Reon will look noticably better or worse than the Faroudja?

My dealer loaned me a 1930 while waiting on my 3930 to ship. So the 1930 was my first real high-quality DVD player. I thought the picture quality was fantastic - such an huge improvement over my previous non-progressive DVD players. I did notice a little the macro-blocking problem, but it generally didn't bother me.

When my 3930 arrived, I got to A/B them for a day. I was again very surprised at the difference - the 3930 picture quality is amazing. Much cleaner, smoother picture, better color (and better sound too). I really hadn't expected much difference, and had been happy enough with the 1930 to consider telling the dealer that I'd just keep it (and around $900!). But I'm glad I didn't.

The 3930 has the Realta chip vs the 2930's REON chip - I'm sure its an upgrade, but I don't know how much, and I haven't seen the 2930 in action. But I'm impressed with the Teranex products.

Have you had a chance to audition both?

-Reid

The Rang

01-24-08, 11:40 PM

I have never used/seen/heard the 1930.

I did have the 2930 for a couple of months before upgrading to the 3930.
Can't comment much on picture improvement...I think it's better (smoother maybe?) but I was having TV issues at the time so was not in a position to judge either player fairly.

But the difference in sound when playing CD/SACD/DVD-A is noticably better on the 3930. That's the main reason I moved up.

MSmith83

01-25-08, 03:34 AM

Although I'm not sure I have things set properly on the Denon: I'm using the SOURCE DIRECT function, all speakers are set for LARGE on the Denon side (as per note on page 24 in manual). While on the NAD processor side I have fronts set for LARGE, center and rears set for SMALL, and sub is OFF (I like bass through GS-60 fronts). But sometimes I seem to be missing material from the center, it seems "attenuated", the song does'nt sound normal (missing lead vocals or instruments typically). However when I pay in 2-channel mode things sound balanced. Don't know if this is a problem, or setting, on the NAD side or Denon player?

By having all the speakers set to large and your NAD set to analog bypass, you are sending full-range audio to your speakers. If you have no problem with every one of your speakers' production of very low frequency tones, then this isn't a problem. If this is not the case, then you want to crossover your speakers by first setting them to "small" in the player and selecting good cutoff points for your particular setup.

To put it simply, try mirroring your 3930 speaker settings after your speaker settings in the NAD processor. Make sure the channel trims and time delays are set in the 3930. You want to do this since the NAD is not performing any bass management or processing to the 3930's analog output. It seems that you also want a separate subwoofer enabled to handle redirected bass if your center and surrounds aren't very good with low frequencies. This may be the center of your issue.

JackStraw2

01-26-08, 06:28 PM

will there be that much difference in these 2 players if i have them connected to a kds50a3000 via a 3808(or possibly 4308)? $650 difference?

WestCoastD

01-26-08, 07:05 PM

By having all the speakers set to large and your NAD set to analog bypass, you are sending full-range audio to your speakers. If you have no problem with every one of your speakers' production of very low frequency tones, then this isn't a problemthanks for your input. Yeah, I've been reading and experimenting more. Now I've re-set the DVD-3930CI for all speakers = LARGE. However I've disabled (switched "OFF") the SOURCE DIRECT.

try mirroring your 3930 speaker settings after your speaker settings in the NAD processor. Make sure the channel trims and time delays are set in the 3930. You want to do this since the NAD is not performing any bass management or processing to the 3930's analog output. It seems that you also want a separate subwoofer enabled to handle redirected bass if your center and surrounds aren't very good with low frequencies. This may be the center of your issue.My NAD T175 processor [does] have bass management, and it handles all the channel trims and delays. So I keep everything set accordingly on the NAD side (ie. fronts = LARGE, center & surrounds = SMALL). Sound is very nice. Now I'm gonna experiment enabling/disabling SOURCE DIRECT to see what difference it makes.

The DVD-3930CI manual is slightly vague, and confusing, in it's explanation of SOURCE DIRECT functionality- ie. on page 14 (chart) SOURCE DIRECT (quote): "Use this procedure to making the setting for direct audio output of the disc's data without making the "SPEAKER SETUP" settings at "AUDIO CHANNEL."
I see, setting to SOUCRE DIRECT eliminates the necessity for having to manually set all speaker sizes in the AUDIO CHANNEL menu selection. So essentially, if I understand correctly, setting all speakers = LARGE is the same thing as setting SOURCE DIRECT to "ON"?

Now, on page 23 (upper right), the topic "Setting the source direct" describes this function (quote): "Set this to output the disc's audio information as such without making the "AUDIO CHANNEL", "SPEAKER SETUP".
With Super Audio CD's, the playback range can be restricted using this setting."
Ah, so I guess we should not use SOURCE DIRECT with SACD's then?

WestCoastD

01-31-08, 12:59 PM

FYI, I just received this good news directly from Jeff Talmadge (of Denon) in regards to the future of DVD-3930CI (quote):

"WestCoastD - We are working on the Frimware updates at this time, our latest web site update can't deal with it the way we want at this time."

In a very surprising turn of events, after five years, Jeff has decided to return to this forum as a manufacturer representative (for Denon) to directly answer and help the CE (consumer electronics) community. Very good guy.....:)

There is a new sticky dedicated just for this purpose in the amps/receivers/processors section, titled "DenonJeff returns...All things Denon Audio ":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=986619

kucharsk

01-31-08, 05:18 PM

DenonJeff also let me know that he just found out that they hope to get the firmware for the 3930CI posted next week, so stay tuned.

kucharsk

01-31-08, 05:32 PM

No one else has season six of 24?

To recap, disc 7, the extras disc, flat out refuses to start in the 3930CI. It displays "loading" and then the display says "stop" and you can't do anything except eject the disc.

The same disc plays fine on every other player I've tried, and multiple copies of disc 7 have failed in multiple 3930CIs, but I'd like to see if anyone else here has experienced failure or success with the disc.

konoyaro

01-31-08, 06:14 PM

Yeah, I got the same response earlier in that thread:

""konoyaro, Soon I hope, as we are working on the website to help us better deliver the updates. Currently it just doesn't work"

If that's the case, you'd have thought they'd provided a different delivery method (CD? email? ftp?).

Anyway, I do appreciate that Denon is resuming a presence on the board.

Fanboyz

01-31-08, 07:33 PM

I have a 2930 issue:
When watching a TV show on dvd, the onscreen action apears to skip frames every once and a while.
I using a the 2930's 1080p output to a sony Kds60a3000.
Anyone have a answer/reason?
FYI everything is setup correctly.

John Ballentine

01-31-08, 09:12 PM

WestCoastD

01-31-08, 09:49 PM

So what does the new 3930 firmware update correct?that's a good question. I figure when they finally get their new software distribution system set-up and functioning I would imagine they would provide "Release Notes" (hopefully).

WestCoastD

02-02-08, 03:36 AM

PooperScooper

02-02-08, 07:47 AM

I remember not long back someone posted the question will Denon come out with newer, or up-dated, (high-end) SD-DVD universal players, and I posted probably not at this point. Someone else thought otherwise.

However, today Jeff Talmadge made a comment (quote):
"I think our development of higher ended SD universal players is pretty much over, the current models will stay through the year..." I think most here would agree that given the choice of putting resources into fixing issues in the 2930/3930 or developing new SD players that the former is the way to go. :)

larry

John Ballentine

02-02-08, 09:31 AM

I agree. The 3930 may be the last of it's breed (and a true SD DVD player collector's item someday:))

On another note. I received a Netflix disc last night - that looked like it had been to hell and back. I can't imagine a disc being any more scratched than it was. OK - maybe 100 grit sandpaper would make it worse. :D Anyway - the disc played fine on the 3930 till the very very end - where I started to notice some slight glitching during the last 2 minutes of the credits. First time I've ever seen glitching on my 3930. And I've played many a scratched Netflix disc before w/o a problem. So I was concerned.

After the film was over I thought I'd test it on my other DVD players. Part of the reason I keep them around. I popped it into my Sony 9000ES player ($1,500. MSRP!) - and after about 2 minutes into the film - disc play stopped and the display read "can't play disc" :eek: So I then popped it into my Cambridge Audio player (used mostly for PAL and all-region playback) - the movie seemed to play fine past the 2 minute mark - but at the credit sequence - it kicked the disc out. Tried once more w/ a Pioneer player (used mostly for DVD-R recording) - and nada. No play. Lastly - I tried it in my venerable 2900 - which has played many a scratched Netflix disc - and during the credit sequence it froze.

Only the 3930 was able to play the movie to the very end. :) Guess that says something about the 3930's "playability" factor.

tdsnumbers

02-02-08, 02:52 PM

I have a basic question from a newbie regarding the Denon 3930. Is it capable of 1080p?

Also, where would you look to buy this machine for less than the full $1500 MSRP? Anywhere?

John Ballentine

02-02-08, 03:03 PM

yes it's capable of 1080p60.

You can certainly buy a 3930 below MSRP at some camera stores in NYC. But beware - that if you buy from a non-autorized Denon dealer - you have no warranty through Denon. Check Denon's web site for authorized internet dealers.

kdt

02-02-08, 06:21 PM

Hi Everyone:

I just got my 3930 this week and I have to admit its a nice machine but I am having a problem with playing regular Cd's.I have it connected to a Denon 3805 by Denon Link only ,for all audio.I also have a Optoma HD72 projector connected to the hdmi ,set at panel res 720p. Everything works find until I try playing a regular CD.The CD would skip. So I thought the CD was bad so I tried another but the same thing happened it kept skipping. So after a hour or two trying different Cds and settings I was ready to pack it up and ship it back. But then it finally dawned on me that it wasn't the DVD deck at all it was the amp cutting in and out.(just like when you make a change in your setting and exit the setup ) :mad:Then I noticed that the hdmi light was blinking so I turn off the hdmi and tried the CD again and BINGO no problem plays great. So I guest when my projector is off or in standby mode I have to turn the hdmi off on the panel to play regular Cd's.(What a pain) So I guest my question is this. Anyone else run across this kind of problem? Do I have something set wrong? Is there a better workaround? I don't see and way to turn off the audio on the hdmi in the menus.because I think thats the problem ,because its is searching for a live hdmi connection. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
PS.I been searching the threads but haven't seen any thing like this yet.

Thanks Keith

MSmith83

02-03-08, 12:20 AM

tdsnumbers

02-03-08, 01:06 AM

Geeeze - I could own both the 2500 - and the BDP-05FD for the cost of the Denon 3800:eek:!

John-

How much will the Denon 3800 cost? My local dealer quoted me $2,000. I thought it would cost more.

I can't find a 3930 for less than $1,500 unless I buy a "refurbished" unit from a Denon dealer on Ebay... and even then it is almost $1,000. My local dealer won't go below $1,500.

tdsnumbers

02-03-08, 01:56 AM

The Rang

02-03-08, 02:13 AM

Is there anyone on this thread using the 3930 with a 2 channel stereo set-up via the analog outs rather than a surround system with a digital AVR? I'm curious as to how the analog outputs on the 3930 sound.

Very, very good

This is the only way I've ever hooked mine up for music.

Analog out for CD/SACD/DVD-A and digital Co-ax out for movies.

WestCoastD

02-03-08, 02:23 AM

Is there anyone on this thread using the 3930 with a 2 channel stereo set-up via the analog outs?yes, it sounds beautiful!

tdsnumbers

02-03-08, 02:42 AM

MSmith83

02-03-08, 03:01 AM

Thanks Rang and WestCoast. One other question on the audio guys. Does it have a bass management feature similar to the 5910?

Audio is very important to me and I'm eyeing the 3930 and 5910. Price difference is huge between these two and I'm wondering if there is that much difference in these two players.

For one thing, the DAC section in the two players are different. The 3930 uses Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DACs, while the 5910 uses the better PCM-1792 model. Both players run their respective DACs in a differential configuration (two DAC channels engaged per channel of audio) for multichannel sources, but operate in dual-differential mode (four DAC channels engaged per channel of audio) for two-channel sources. This is something to consider when trying to faithfully reproduce as many bits as possible for high resolution music.

I'm not sure about the 5910, but the 3930 allows for pretty flexible crossovers, which starts with 40Hz and goes up in 20 Hz increments. The 3930 also has time delay and channel trim adjustments.

I'm sure that the analog section of both players will sound absolutely fantastic.

John Ballentine

02-03-08, 09:27 AM

John-

How much will the Denon 3800 cost? My local dealer quoted me $2,000. I thought it would cost more.

I can't find a 3930 for less than $1,500 unless I buy a "refurbished" unit from a Denon dealer on Ebay... and even then it is almost $1,000. My local dealer won't go below $1,500.

The 3800 has an MSRP of $2,000. Due out in approx a month.

I paid full MSRP for my 3930 ($1,500.) at Crutchfield. Great customer service and 30 day trial w/ free return shipping.

Reid_T

02-03-08, 04:17 PM

The 3800 has an MSRP of $2,000. Due out in approx a month.

I paid full MSRP for my 3930 ($1,500.) at Crutchfield. Great customer service and 30 day trial w/ free return shipping.

[I'm expecting the moderator to come slap us for quoting prices and dealers, any second now...] I paid $1100, but I bought an entire system from one dealer (who shall not be named, but I think I've mentioned them elsewhere here), so that may have helped on the price. The first one developed a freezing problem after about 10 months, and they replaced it no questions asked.

So definitely buy from a licensed dealer.

-Reid

tdsnumbers

02-03-08, 06:02 PM

The 3800 has an MSRP of $2,000. Due out in approx a month.

I paid full MSRP for my 3930 ($1,500.) at Crutchfield. Great customer service and 30 day trial w/ free return shipping.

I ordered a 3930 from Crutchfield today. $1,500 cost, but no sales tax, free shipping, and 30 day trial w/free return shipping is too good to pass up. I'm sure I'll love it but one never knows if a defect is gonna pop up and you want a replacement.

They offer a 3 and 5 year extended warranty at quite reasonable cost. Did you buy it? I'm considering it but am gonna give the player a good workout first.

Thanks for the help.

kucharsk

02-04-08, 04:19 PM

YES! Very good news that Denon Jeff is back. In fact he's moderating his own Blu-ray player thread.

So what does the new 3930 firmware update correct? (wish it's purpose would be to speed up menu navigation:))

Or is this the very same update that has been available in Europe for over 6 months now :(?

It is very likely to be the exact same update that's been available in Europe for months, just finally officially blessed by Denon USA.

Is there anyone on this thread using the 3930 with a 2 channel stereo set-up via the analog outs rather than a surround system with a digital AVR? I'm curious as to how the analog outputs on the 3930 sound.

They sound quite good but not as good as many players on the market that concentrate more on audio than video or A/V performance.

Certainly on normal "Red Book" audio CDs there are many much better sounding CD players on the market, and arguably the same can be said for dedicated SACD players.

Likewise, many say there are better sounding DVD-A players on the market as well.

But as an all around combination of CD, SACD and DVD-A plus a great DVD video player, it's hard to beat the 3930CI.

MSmith83

02-04-08, 05:18 PM

They sound quite good but not as good as many players on the market that concentrate more on audio than video or A/V performance.

Certainly on normal "Red Book" audio CDs there are many much better sounding CD players on the market, and arguably the same can be said for dedicated SACD players.

Likewise, many say there are better sounding DVD-A players on the market as well.

But as an all around combination of CD, SACD and DVD-A plus a great DVD video player, it's hard to beat the 3930CI.

One thing to keep in mind is that the 3930 uses DACs that are of the same or better quality than many CD or SACD players that cost thousands more. Just because the Denon is a universal player doesn't necessarily make it worse for unbalanced analog use than many more expensive dedicated CD players.

Denon pays great attention to their audio sections. For instance, they provide a pure direct mode for shutting down all unnecessary digital circuits, and they configure their DACs in differential and dual-differential setups. They may not have the DSP prowess of Meridian, but they can certainly hold their own against other "high-end" companies. I've seen audiophiles say that the pre-amp section of some of Denon's higher-end AVRs actually sound better and more transparent than offerings from companies like Anthem.

WestCoastD

02-04-08, 05:46 PM

Just because the Denon is a universal player doesn't necessarily make it worse for unbalanced analog use than many more expensive dedicated CD players. Denon pays great attention to their audio sectionsexactly right! The DVD-3930CI is an exceptional player for 2ch analog, and is the perfect addition for someone who demands "audiophile" performance from their "A/V" system.

I'm using an new NAD T175 surround-processor with a Parasound Halo A51 amp and Denon DVD-3930CI. This combination yields exceptional sound from CD's as well as SACD/DVD-A sources, definitely comparable to most "dedicated" set-up's. This is partly due to the T175 processor having very good analog pre-amp circuitry as well.

PA Buck

02-04-08, 07:40 PM

Hi WestCoast, what led you to getting the Halo, was it the sound of the amp or were you interested in the 250 watts, something that a Nad amp could not provide, just wondering why you did not pair that Nad prepro with a Nad amp?

WestCoastD

02-04-08, 10:46 PM

what led you to getting the Halo, was it the sound of the amp or were you interested in the 250 watts?both, the sound of the Halo amp and the power. I had really looked around and read many threads, etc.,..I wanted a multi-channel amp that was truly "musical" with at least 200W per/chan and proven. The Halo's seemed to be very highly regarded and have been very popular for about the last 5 or 6 years now. I'm also using Monitor Audio GS-Series speakers (GS-60 fronts, GS-LCR center), I've read that they match well with the Halo amps.

I've been running my new system for the last two weeks and it sounds unbelieveably nice! Wide and deep soundstage. Music elements are noticeably separated and clean-sounding. At only moderate levels the sound is just sweet and rich sounding, and does everything effortlessly.

just wondering why you did not pair that NAD prepro with a NAD amp?actually I did have three NAD C272 amps (150W X 2 each) which I really loved. I was planning to use the T175 with these amps, however I wanted a solid multi-channel amp to save space in my rack instead of stacking the C272's three-high (also thermal issues when doing this). So I sold two of the C272's (very quick on AudioGon), I kept one unit to use for a dedicated 2-channel system in another room.

Otherwise I would not hesitate to use, for example, an NAD T975 (140W X7, or M25 (160W X 7), these amps are very nice as well.

tdsnumbers

02-04-08, 10:48 PM

It is very likely to be the exact same update that's been available in Europe for months, just finally officially blessed by Denon USA.

Good grief. You mean the 3930CI needs a firmware update? What is the update supposed to do?

The Rang

02-04-08, 11:05 PM

Certainly on normal "Red Book" audio CDs there are many much better sounding CD players on the market, and arguably the same can be said for dedicated SACD players.

Likewise, many say there are better sounding DVD-A players on the market as well.

But as an all around combination of CD, SACD and DVD-A plus a great DVD video player, it's hard to beat the 3930CI.

I have to agree with this.

While I believe it's very good as redbook CD player it can't touch my Arcam CD82 IMHO.

Can't really comment on its SACD/DVD-A performance. I'm sure there are better players out there but the only one I've heard in my system was the Denon 2930 and the 3930 easily beats it.

kucharsk

02-05-08, 01:35 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that the 3930 uses DACs that are of the same or better quality than many CD or SACD players that cost thousands more. Just because the Denon is a universal player doesn't necessarily make it worse for unbalanced analog use than many more expensive dedicated CD players.

Denon pays great attention to their audio sections. For instance, they provide a pure direct mode for shutting down all unnecessary digital circuits, and they configure their DACs in differential and dual-differential setups. They may not have the DSP prowess of Meridian, but they can certainly hold their own against other "high-end" companies. I've seen audiophiles say that the pre-amp section of some of Denon's higher-end AVRs actually sound better and more transparent than offerings from companies like Anthem.

Audio quality isn't DAC quality alone, though.

As I said above, the 3930CI sounds very good, but it's not hard to find dedicated players for CD, SACD and DVD-A that sound better.

Good grief. You mean the 3930CI needs a firmware update? What is the update supposed to do?

The European update improves remote sensor sensitivity and fixes a handful of glitches involving SACD playback.

It may also fix a few issues with DVD playback on certain titles, we just don't know at this point.

MSmith83

02-05-08, 02:01 AM

Audio quality isn't DAC quality alone, though.

As I said above, the 3930CI sounds very good, but it's not hard to find dedicated players for CD, SACD and DVD-A that sound better.

I don't have extensive experience with subjective listening among players, so your comment is definitely valid. It is definitely valid in the sense that I'm sure some dedicated players do sound better, but at what cost?

My comment comes from the knowledge that Denon's upper-end players like the 3930 do have the implementation that you see in many high-end dedicated CD players. They have the isolated power supply and circuit boards, the sturdy and well-constructed disc drive, the up-sampling and bit-extension of 44.1 kHz/16-bit CD audio, the quality DACs run in dual-differential, the quality pre-outs, etc.

Denon has been working with PCM audio technology for longer than most or all of today's high-end player manufacturers. While this may have no bearing on their recent efforts, it at least give me faith in how they handle DSP functions like AL24 with PCM. Given the pedigree of Denon's players, I would bet that the 3930 has real-world SNR and THD+N numbers that best or equal those found in many of the similarly priced mid- to high-end dedicated players.

a_ok2me

02-05-08, 11:42 PM

It is very likely to be the exact same update that's been available in Europe for months, just finally officially blessed by Denon USA.I thought I've been reading of updates "coming soon" every month for the past year or so, or was it some other Denon thread. Did hell freeze over on Sunday :eek:? It can't be because I've been told hell freezes over when the Vikings win the Super Bowl :D.

mntwister

02-06-08, 12:17 AM

Wow, I finally found a thread with owners of the 3930. Hello everyone. I am very excited because on Thursday, my 3930ci will be delivered. I have been toying with which high def player to get that has the Reon chip, because I have almost 1700 dvd's and it's very important to me what they look like on my Epson 1080 projector (150" elite screen). ZI bought the Samsung 1200 blu-ray player and that was awful, many blu-rays did not play. Then I looked at the Toshiba XA2 hd-dvd player. But then I started reading reviews of the 2930 and 3930, and decided with all that invested in dvd's, why not get the one that has seen so many 5 star reviews. So I am sure this will be a busy dvd weekend, as I hear the upscaling is great on this player as well as all other options.

WestCoastD

02-06-08, 12:20 AM

Wow, I finally found a thread with owners of the 3930yeah, it was right next door to the other thread you posted in:D (glad you found it:))

WestCoastD

02-06-08, 12:25 AM

I started reading reviews of the 2930 and 3930, and decided with all that invested in dvd's, why not get the one that has seen so many 5 star reviews. I hear the upscaling is great on this player as well as all other options.you will be very happy with the DVD-3930CI video-quality, period!

mntwister

02-06-08, 12:31 AM

WestCoastD

02-06-08, 02:24 AM

I read earlier in the thread about problems on the 2930 with burned media, I have alot of dvd+r on Memorex, will I have a problem with them on the 3930?I have'nt personally used any "burned-media" sources myself so I can't really speak for those issues.

However, as you read along, you will see that there are various technical issues/failures documented here on the DVD-3930CI. As time progresses many problems were fixed through firmware (although firmware was not easily obtainable in the U.S.A.. But just read that Denon will release firmware in the next week or so ). Otherwise I figure your unit should be very much up-to-date and should (hopefully) operate cleanly.

John Ballentine

02-06-08, 09:59 AM

thanks West Coast, yes I found the thread I wanted right after that one. I think I will be very happy. I do have to ask, I read earlier in the thread about problems on the 2930 with burned media, I have alot of dvd+r on Memorex, will I have a problem with them on the 3930? Now I am very concerned. I am only reading on page 30, where someone first mentions it, perhaps an answer is coming on later pages, but I thought I would ask right away.

None of the Denon's I've owned including the 3930 have performed especially well w/ burned media. :( Not sure why. But it's hit and miss. I keep a Sony 9000ES around just for my burned media.

mntwister

02-06-08, 04:58 PM

OH MY GOD...I just got my player (3930ci) 3 hours ago and have set it up, and I can't believe the picture quality. Even though we now have true high def, this machine puts a whole new light on playing regular dvd. I am stunned at the great upscaling quality of this unit, and yes I have also tried 4 dvd+r and have had no problem yet.

This was expensive for me, but with as large collection as I have of dvd's, it is well worth the money to be able to play them and have them look like this on my projector. The Realta is everything that has been said about it, and I think it definately out-does the Reon (which I owned before in the Samsung 1200 blu-ray player). This is one fine unit by Denon. I am a happy camper. Now to pay off the balance :(

John Ballentine

02-06-08, 05:30 PM

Yep. The 3930 is an impressive machine. :) Pricey - but impressive. A little slow w/ DVD menu navigation - but that's my only real complaint. Well - I also wish it could pull (and send straight through) 24 frames from the disc (as does the Toshiba XA2).

Been using mine for over 10 months now. Picture quality is absolutely stellar.

IIRC - the only difference between the Reon and the Realta - is that the Realta's menu has much more adjustability. In fact it has incredible adjustability. (so much so - I haven't taken the time to play w/ it much :eek:).

mntwister

02-06-08, 05:54 PM

dlormans

02-06-08, 05:58 PM

John, where do you see a menu for the Realta? I have only been on this one day but don't see anything like that yet.

It's the "Picture Adjust" menu.

Fanboyz

02-06-08, 06:51 PM

What does the Realta let you screw with in contrast to the 2930?

Webmonkey

02-06-08, 07:35 PM

bump.. I would also like to know this...

BTW - would it be foolish to buy a 3930 now that the Bd players are coming ???

MSmith83

02-06-08, 07:48 PM

BTW - would it be foolish to buy a 3930 now that the Bd players are coming ???

It depends on what your needs are. The upcoming Denon 3800 does have numerous similarities to the 3930, including the Realta chip, Advanced AL24, and the Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC section. The 3800 will supposedly have a better clock master design that contributes to less jitter.

While the 3800 adds Blu-ray support, you lose out on the DVD-Audio and SACD support that the 3930 has. Add that to the fact that the 3800 has an MSRP that is $500 more than the 3930.

mntwister

02-06-08, 07:50 PM

BTW - would it be foolish to buy a 3930 now that the Bd players are coming ???

That was my thinking....why spend that kind of money, but then I figured I have almost 1800 dvd's and many of those are classic movies that will take years and years to come out on high-def, if they ever do, so now that I have the 3930, and I have only had it since about 1pm today, I have tried about 20 different movies and seriously, never thought dvd could look this good. Previously used a PS3 with upscaling and before that a Sony dvd player. I even had the Samsung bd-p1200 blu-ray player with the Reon, but this is something else. I am sure the construction and parts used have something to do with it too. Even though I will take a year to pay it off, I have no regrets, just after day 1 with it.

WestCoastD

02-06-08, 08:26 PM

the Realta's menu has much more adjustability. In fact it has incredible adjustabilityI have'nt had the opportunity to touch any of that either. Now that I have a new Pioneer Kuro PDP4280HD plasma display I'm getting a little more into picture-quality side of things. Just getting through the break-in stage (150 hours). Next I'm hoping to be able to calibrate the DVD-3930CI to the Pioneer display.

WestCoastD

02-06-08, 08:30 PM

but this is something else. I am sure the construction and parts used have something to do with it tooyeah, the audio capability is something-else as well. I probably play at least two to three hours of music per/day on this machine (CD, SACD/DVD-A).

Jon S

02-06-08, 09:09 PM

I have'nt had the opportunity to touch any of that either. Now that I have a new Pioneer Kuro PDP4280HD plasma display I'm getting a little more into picture-quality side of things. Just getting through the break-in stage (150 hours). Next I'm hoping to be able to calibrate the DVD-3930CI to the Pioneer display.

congratulations on your purchase. i just hope yours is reliable... my unit crapped out twice in the past eight months, has been with Denon service for two months, and still is not dependable. Just be aware the unit gets extremely hot on top (the Realta chip generates a LOT of heat) and needs a LOT of space around the sides and top.

Webmonkey

02-06-08, 09:24 PM

It depends on what your needs are. The upcoming Denon 3800 does have numerous similarities to the 3930, including the Realta chip, Advanced AL24, and the Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC section. The 3800 will supposedly have a better clock master design that contributes to less jitter.

While the 3800 adds Blu-ray support, you lose out on the DVD-Audio and SACD support that the 3930 has. Add that to the fact that the 3800 has an MSRP that is $500 more than the 3930.

The silver version is actually on sale here right now. about 1400$, while the black and premium is at 2200$- the 3800 is expected to cost us about 3600$ over here...

John Ballentine

02-06-08, 09:50 PM

I have'nt had the opportunity to touch any of that either. Now that I have a new Pioneer Kuro PDP4280HD plasma display I'm getting a little more into picture-quality side of things. Just getting through the break-in stage (150 hours). Next I'm hoping to be able to calibrate the DVD-3930CI to the Pioneer display.

The Pioneer Kuros are incredible displays. TOP rated in every review I've read. Saw them at CES and was extremely impressed. This very model is definitely on my "want" list (for my smaller screen size back-up Home Theatre room) as my Sony Wega XBR (tube) is slowly crapping out. I still use this room a lot :) even though I have a 106" screen w/ RS1 in my main Theater room.

John Ballentine

02-06-08, 09:57 PM

congratulations on your purchase. i just hope yours is reliable... my unit crapped out twice in the past eight months, has been with Denon service for two months, and still is not dependable. Just be aware the unit gets extremely hot on top (the Realta chip generates a LOT of heat) and needs a LOT of space around the sides and top.

I've found that (for some reason) it's more important to have extra side vs. top clearance. I have another piece of equipment directly on top of my 3930 and that only allows one-half inch clearance. No problems so far (8+ months). But to be safe - I never watch more than one movie at a time (on any given day) on the 3930. This gives it plenty of time to cool down in between usages.

WestCoastD

02-07-08, 01:23 AM

The Pioneer Kuros are incredible displays. TOP rated in every review I've read. Saw them at CES and was extremely impressed. This very model is definitely on my "want" list (for my smaller screen size back-up Home Theatre room)you're right, I'm totally impressed. This is my first plasma.

BTW, I'm totally impressed with my Oppo DV-980HD player, especially for the price. 2-channel analog OUT is very good for CD's. Even digital-coax sounds good for CD's. But multi-channel audio via-HDMI (PCM) is incredible. I've found that I really like playing SACD's and DVD-A's (via-HDMI) on the Oppo more than on the Denon lately. Video quality for SD-DVD is very nice as well (up-scaled). Still the Denon has more refined sounding 2ch and 5.1ch analog OUT's, as well as higher-quality video output. But I would definitely recommend getting an Oppo as a back-up player.

John Ballentine

02-07-08, 09:34 AM

Yep - if I had a time machine - and knowing what I know now - I'd (probably) go OPPO - skipping over the 3930 - and saving a ton of $$$. However - the 3930 is a workhorse - and I plan to get my money's worth out of it over the next few years. And as I said before - probably the last of it's breed from Denon.

Too bad OPPO doesn't make a Blu-ray player :(

MSmith83

02-07-08, 09:44 AM

I recently got the Oppo 980 to go with my new video processor, and I've got to say that I greatly appreciate the much better response and load times it has when compared to the Denon 2930. It is weird how the Denon is fast with music formats and has a completely seamless layer change, yet it's quite slow with DVD menu loading.

WestCoastD

02-07-08, 01:31 PM

the 3930 is a workhorse - and I plan to get my money's worth out of it over the next few years. And as I said before - probably the last of it's breed from Denonyeah, don't get me wrong, I love my DVD-3930CI. There are no other players (of this kind) that can touch it. I like using the Oppo so as not to over-use the Denon. When I have those few moments during the week (late friday or saturday nights) to watch a DVD-Movie I use the Denon.

Too bad OPPO doesn't make a Blu-ray playerapparently that (a BluRay) is to come soon from Oppo.

WestCoastD

02-07-08, 01:35 PM

weird how the Denon is fast with music formats and has a completely seamless layer change, yet it's quite slow with DVD menu loadingyeah, as long as it does'nt fail I'm happy (I can deal with a little extra time):)

a_ok2me

02-07-08, 10:28 PM

That was my thinking....why spend that kind of money, but then I figured I have almost 1800 dvd's and many of those are classic movies that will take years and years to come out on high-def, if they ever do, so now that I have the 3930, and I have only had it since about 1pm today, I have tried about 20 different movies and seriously, never thought dvd could look this good. Previously used a PS3 with upscaling and before that a Sony dvd player. I even had the Samsung bd-p1200 blu-ray player with the Reon, but this is something else. I am sure the construction and parts used have something to do with it too. Even though I will take a year to pay it off, I have no regrets, just after day 1 with it.Audio wise, my $190 HTPC soundcard sounded slightly less better than my 3930ci. After upgrading the Op Amp, it sounds better than the 3930ci. I can buy Burr Brown Op Amps to make it sound very similar to the 3930ci, but I chose Op Amps that emphasizes the highs. I've rarely ever used the 3930ci for audio... maybe twice in the last year.

WestCoastD

02-08-08, 03:36 AM

Audio wise, my $190 HTPC soundcard sounded slightly less better than my 3930ci. After upgrading the Op Amp, it sounds better than the 3930ci. I can buy Burr Brown Op Amps to make it sound very similar to the 3930ci, but I chose Op Amps that emphasizes the highs. I've rarely ever used the 3930ci for audio... maybe twice in the last year.so I guess we should all sell our DVD-3930CI's and get HTPC soundcard's, along with a few Burr Brown Op-Amps IC's, and soldering equipment:)

John Ballentine

02-08-08, 07:29 AM

Sounds like a plan :eek:

a_ok2me

02-08-08, 11:13 AM

so I guess we should all sell our DVD-3930CI's and get HTPC soundcard's, along with a few Burr Brown Op-Amps IC's, and soldering equipment:)It's much much more convenient than switching CDs all the time with the 3930, especially with a slow tray. All the music is stored in the PC.

What the PC cannot do as well is play videos. I have an old dvd drive and it's noticeably worse. I don't know if the newer BR/HD drives will have pic quality as well as the 3930.

But, it will be shocking to know that it might be possible to replace a big DVD unit and stuff it into a PC, clearing up space on the rack. I don't think a PC can replace a receiver though.

MSmith83

02-08-08, 11:48 AM

It's much much more convenient than switching CDs all the time with the 3930, especially with a slow tray. All the music is stored in the PC.

What the PC cannot do as well is play videos. I have an old dvd drive and it's noticeably worse. I don't know if the newer BR/HD drives will have pic quality as well as the 3930.

But, it will be shocking to know that it might be possible to replace a big DVD unit and stuff it into a PC, clearing up space on the rack. I don't think a PC can replace a receiver though.

I was once a big proponent of using a HTPC as an all-in-one solution. The analog section in my X-Fi Elite Pro sound card can produce a pretty good sound. However, having numerous components in my A/V racks that each do at least one thing particularly well and better than my PC grew on me.

I will say that I do appreciate the synergy of utilizing my PC as a file server for my other components to read.

s2silber

02-08-08, 12:21 PM

I've found that I really like playing SACD's and DVD-A's (via-HDMI) on the Oppo more than on the Denon lately.[/QUOTE]
Why?:confused:

WestCoastD

02-08-08, 01:57 PM

I do appreciate the synergy of utilizing my PC as a file server for my other components to read.I really appreciate using my PC as a file-server as well. I have quite a large music archive (WIN-Media) on my PC and appreciate being able to "stream" music via-etherNET (using an Escient FireBall ZP-1 player):
http://www.escient.com/products/zp1.html
to my NAD T175 surround-processor.

WestCoastD

02-08-08, 02:01 PM

I've found that I really like playing SACD's and DVD-A's (via-HDMI) on the Oppo more than on the Denon lately, WhyPCM sends it to my NAD surround-processor in "DIRECT" mode and uses Audyssey EQ, very nice sound. Don't get me wrong the Denon has a very nice sound through it's 5.1ch analog OUT's, very nice clean sound with subtle warmth.

I use my Denon DVD-3930CI extensively for two-channel CD's, stereo SACD's, HDCD encoded disc's (lot's of Joni mitchell titles:)), and watching SD-DVD's. I play at least two hours of CD music on a daily basis. I rotate between my Denon and Oppo players (it's a nice thing).

The Denon is definitely a much better player- period. It has a more precision transport, music has a more natural "pace" to it, not "mechanical". Vocals and instruments are nicely separated.

s2silber

02-08-08, 03:59 PM

So, you're saying that you like and use the '3930 for all things analog, pluse for SD DVD. Makes sense, I suppose, if your NAD processes digital PCM input better.

WestCoastD

02-08-08, 04:45 PM

So, you're saying that you like and use the '3930 for all things analog, pluse for SD DVDyes, very much so. I do like HDMI-audio for DVD-Movies as well (DolbyDigital and DTS). The NAD T175 surround-processor seems to do exceptionally well with, both, analog and HDMI (PCM) sources- very "musical". So having the Denon and Oppo players make for a nice combination with the T175.

aoshiken

02-08-08, 04:59 PM

What is the purpose of the chroma level picture setting?

Color saturation?
:confused:

mntwister

02-08-08, 06:12 PM

Does anyone know what the code for the remote control of the 3930 is? I want to program it into my Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver remote but Denon's regular number isn't working. Thanks

a_ok2me

02-08-08, 10:47 PM

so I guess we should all sell our DVD-3930CI's and get HTPC soundcard's, along with a few Burr Brown Op-Amps IC's, and soldering equipment:)By the way, what's cool about my soundcard is that the 4 op amps are swappable 8pin, not the solder type. Pop in a different op amp on any channel if you want a different sound. I actually thought about using the ethernet route like you, instead of buying the soundcard, but my 3806 didn't support it.

WestCoastD

02-09-08, 12:11 AM

By the way, what's cool about my soundcard is that the 4 op amps are swappable 8pin, not the solder typethat's good. Sounds like it's a surface-mount format IC with a PCB-mounted socket?

tdsnumbers

02-09-08, 07:55 PM

I just got my Denon 3930 from Crutchfield yesterday but haven't hooked it up yet. I thought I'd read the owner's manual first. Well, I've spent a few hours on it and my head is spinning. It certainly doesn't give you a lot of info on the why's of doing or not doing a particular set-up.

A simple question for you 3930 owners. Will the 3930 produce a picture in 1080p using the component video outputs or do you have to use an HDMI connection to get 1080p?

If not, what will a component connection give me for video, 1080i or what?

I will be using the 2 channel audio outputs for audio but am wondering if I should use an HDMI connection for video or if a component video connection would give a 1080p picture.

I ask this because an analog connection always looks more film-like to me than a digital connection.

fuzzybk

02-09-08, 09:21 PM

tdsnumbers

02-10-08, 01:02 AM

If you use the component outputs you will get 480i or 480p. If you use HDMI you can get 480i/480p, 720p, 1080i/p. I use the 2 channel analog outputs as well for CD playback and it sounds fantastic. Even though the 3930ci is a good upscaling player, I just send out a 480p signal through the component outputs and it looks fantastic on my 61" DLP.]

Is your DLP capable of 1080p? If so, how does 1080p using HDMI compare? Seems like the difference between 480p and 1080p would be quite a chasm. I haven't done any A/B comparisons so I don't know.

I'm realizing that high def plasma displays and the associated equipment necessary to fully utilize them is way more complicated than I expected. I'm just trying to learn from the experience of others. I'm new at high def and upscaling SD DVDs so I need all the help I can get.

WestCoastD

02-10-08, 03:51 AM

I just got my Denon 3930. I will be using the 2 channel audio outputs for audio but am wondering if I should use an HDMI connection for video or if a component video connection would give a 1080p pictureDefinitely use the 2ch OUT's for for audio (CD's, etc.,...) it's very nice sounding.

Moreover, I would take advantage of HDMI of you have an HDMI TV, this will provide you more full capability of the DVD-3930CI's up-scaling functions, as well as HDMI audio for DVD-Movies (DolbyDigital, DTS).

I've used both, component-video w/digital-coax audio, and HDMI (video and audio). Both work nice, component-video provides nice 480p picture and nice digital audio from coax connection. However HDMI is really nice, I can select from the whole range of video scaling resolutions (exceptionally nice picture), combined with excellent digital audio performance.

mntwister

02-10-08, 09:40 AM

I am new to the 3930, but this last weekend I had a friend over who brought 4 SACDs. We could only get 2 channel stereo from them. We tried all settings, the player showed 5.1 channels, and my Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver showed it was getting signal for 5.1 channels, but we only heard left and right stereo. He took the discs back with him (he is 3 hours away) but we can't be 100% sure they were 5.1 discs. There were Sony samplers and a few other samplers there and on the packaging they said multi-channel SACD samplers, anyone have the problem...was it a wrong setting somewhere? It was hooked from the Denon analogs into the Yamaha external inputs. Unfortunately he took the discs back but I will see him Wednesday and borrow them again and try this once more. I don't own any SACDs or DVD-A yet.

mntwister

02-10-08, 09:42 AM

WestCoastD

02-10-08, 03:05 PM

...was it a wrong setting somewhere? It was hooked from the Denon analogs into the Yamaha external inputsfrom what I can tell here there is a good chance something was'nt set correctly. Especially since you say, both, the player and the Yamaha receiver were indicating 5.1 channels. Sounds like the receiver was only "switched" to play 2-channel somehow. You have to make sure to select "MULTI CH INPUT" on the Yamaha remote to enable the external MULTI CH INP connections on the receiver rear panel. You should purchase at least one multi-channel ("hybrid") SACD title to use as a source test disc.

...
Also, to listen to a CD, is there any difference between HDMI, optical or analogs?there are some differences, however these differences may be difficult to discern. I would use the 2ch analog OUT's for CD's. Use HDMI video and audio (Dolbydigital and DTS) when watching DVD-Movies, it's very nice.

Have fun!

Ralph1950

02-10-08, 06:42 PM

[QUOTE=WestCoastD;13045681]yeah, don't get me wrong, I love my DVD-3930CI. There are no other players (of this kind) that can touch it. I like using the Oppo so as not to over-use the Denon. When I have those few moments during the week (late friday or saturday nights) to watch a DVD-Movie I use the Denon.

[QUOTE]

I was thinking about purchasing a 3930 and then thought......Why? I blew a bundle on a Denon dvd5000 and although it sounded good, it lasted a few years & the laser assembly went south. A Denon repair facility replaced it & it went out again in a year. So, I went to a 3910 and although it sounded and looked good, it lasted two years & now it sits in a corner of my room unhooked. I planed to send it in to have the laser replaced, but bought an OPPO after recommendations from this sites members. WOW, why repair the Denon when the OPPO brand new is the same amount & I swear it looks as good on SD DVD's. I guess i am tired of the repairs on an expensive component. I am not downing the Denon, and if you have one & like it, then I am glad for you. I am just leary of the reliable of a product you pay over a grand for. Maybe i just got one of those Friday work day builds. Twice! :rolleyes:
I do listen to allot of music, but I use the dacs in the Bryston SP2 for that.

redshift1

02-10-08, 10:46 PM

Hello, looking to purchase 3930 in Southern Cal area. I've seen prices vary quite a bit ...does anyone have any recommendations...thanks bob

WestCoastD

02-11-08, 01:01 AM

Hello, looking to purchase 3930 in Southern Cal area. I've seen prices vary quite a bit ...does anyone have any recommendations...I would try Sound Factor, in Pasadena. Last time I was there they were selling DVD-3930CI's for under retail (can't say price). I would call there and inquire, ask for Duke:
(626) 577-4945

Sound Factor is a very well run and operated mom & pop boutique audio retailer.

kucharsk

02-11-08, 02:50 PM

BTW, for anyone checking, no 3930CI firmware updates on the Denon USA site yet, and it's been a few days since anyone's heard from DenonJeff. :(

WestCoastD

02-11-08, 06:10 PM

I was thinking about purchasing a 3930 and then thought......Why?yeah, it is expensive (and it has it issues), but an exceptionally good player.

I blew a bundle on a Denon dvd5000 and although it sounded good, it lasted a few years & the laser assembly went south. A Denon repair facility replaced it & it went out again in a year..can't really compare DVD5000 to the DVD-3930CI, much different design, older-generation compared to new-generation.

So, I went to a 3910 and although it sounded and looked good, it lasted two years & now it sits in a corner of my room unhooked..predecessor to the DVD-3930CI, similiar design architecture, an exceptionally good player as well. Although the DVD-3930CI has updated video-processing. It would definitely be worth reparing for the sound quality alone (as a CD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD player).

BTW, how much does it typically cost to have laser replaced in a unit like this? I'm planning on keeping my DVD-3930CI forever, it sounds too good not to.

bought an OPPO after recommendations from this sites members. WOW, why repair the Denon when the OPPO brand new is the same amount & I swear it looks as good on SD DVD's. I do listen to allot of music, but I use the dacs in the Bryston SP2 for that.yeah, the Oppo DV-980H is an exceptionally good player (for $200.00). It definitely has good video quality combined with excellent sound quality. Although the Denon sounds slightly better (and is built better) for 2-channel CD's, and multi-channel analog audio (SACD, DVD-A). But multi-channel audio via-HDMI on the Oppo is incredible! As I've mentioned previously the Oppo and the Denon make for a great combination.

How is your Oppo connected to your Bryston SP2, by digital-coax?

Ralph1950

02-12-08, 10:05 AM

The OPPO is connected by coax. HDMI for video. The Bryston at this time does not have HDMI switching, although it is in the works or will be as soon as the 1.2 2.1 or whatever is setteled. Bryston does not make moves very fast. I really liked my Denon, and it is built like a tank for sure, but the laser assembly that they use just does not hold the test of time. Only draw back I can find with them. For that kind of money, they should look to another supplier I think. So, the cost to ship & repair it was going to be around $300.00. I just could not see putting that kind of money in a dated player that may break down in another area at any time. For those that have the Denon, and it is still working, I hope it lasts a long time. At least longer than my two has. BTW, the audio company I contract to has a bunch od Denon's in need of repair sitting on shelves waiting to be done. They dropped the line a couple years ago because of thatissue. They just also dropped Rotel because of repair issues. And you should see all the Velodyne subs waiting for new amps. But that is another issue.