Were can I find the descibtions of the firmware updates ?
As far as I know 3930 has Realta and 2930 Reon.
Reon is derived from Realta.

I've been experimenting with my new set-up for a while now using the new NAD T175surround-processor, DVD-3930CI, Oppo DV-980H, etc.,...

I'm using HDMI for watching DVD-Movies from the DVD-3930CI. In the DIGITAL INTERFACE SETUP menu I have my HDMI AUDIO SETUP menu item set for "MULTI (NORMAL)". Seems to provide nice multi-channel surround for DolbyDigital soundtracks, etc.,...

However when I play multi-channel SACD's or DVD-A's via-5.1ch analog OUT's it only outputs as 2-channel stereo. So I kept playing around with menu settings. I finally found that when re-setting HDMI AUDIO SETUP menu item back to "2CH" I can now get full multi-channel sound from the 5.1 analog OUT's. Also "source direct" function comes into affect as well providing one hell of a boost! I had to turn my system down (like 6dB or 8dB), but bass was huge!

I'm still a little confusted though that this is the proper way to operate things. Should I have to go into DIGITAL INTERFACE SETUP menu and re-set HDMI AUDIO SETUP item from "2CH" back to "MULTI (NORMAL)" everytime I want to watch a DVD-movie via-HDMI? And then vice-versa for listening to multi-channel SACD's via-5.1ch analog OUT's?

Anyone else aware of this scenario?

Yes, this is how I make it work unfortunatly. I have a 3930 connected to a 2807.
Denon has confirmed that to have multi-channel I have to choose between either HDMI or Ext.In in the setup. The only way for me to play SACD is through Ext.In.

Another question that I have is if I should be "upgrading" from the 2807 to either a 3808 or 4308 (or something else)? I have Dali Suite 2.8 as FR/FL. Is there anybody that have experience with 2CH and if the 2807 is powerful enough?
Any thought is welcomed.

Yes, this is how I make it work unfortunatly. I have a 3930 connected to a 2807. Denon has confirmed that to have multi-channel I have to choose between either HDMI or Ext.In in the setup. The only way for me to play SACD is through Ext.Inreally appreciate your confirming of this. At least I know this is the only way to make this scenario function, and I'm not doing something wrong (I hope).


Another question that I have is if I should be "upgrading" from the 2807 to either a 3808 or 4308 (or something else)? I have Dali Suite 2.8 as FR/FL. Is there anybody that have experience with 2CH and if the 2807 is powerful enough?while the Denon has decent power (110W X 7) I would prefer at least 200W per/chan, especially for 2-channel, you'll see some improvement (I think) using your Dali floorstanders. A better, more powerful, amp will provide better articulation.


Frequency response (Hz) 37-25.000
Crossover frequency (Hz) 2.900
Sensitivity (2,83V/1m.) dB 90,0
Nominal impedance 4,0
Minimum impedance 3,5/205 Hz
Maximum SPL dB 111
Recommended amp. power 8 Ohm 30-160 W

while the Denon has decent power (110W X 7) I would prefer at least 200W per/chan, especially for 2-channel, you'll see some improvement (I think) using your Dali floorstanders. A better, more powerful, amp will provide better articulation.

Frequency response (Hz) 37-25.000
Crossover frequency (Hz) 2.900
Sensitivity (2,83V/1m.) dB 90,0
Nominal impedance 4,0
Minimum impedance 3,5/205 Hz
Maximum SPL dB 111
Recommended amp. power 8 Ohm 30-160 W

I run the Dali's bi-amp'ed and hear some improvement doing that.
I see that I need to dig deeper in the pocket for more "power". This looks like I have started on a never ending story.

Denon has confirmed that to have multi-channel I have to choose between either HDMI or Ext.In in the setup. The only way for me to play SACD is through Ext.Inalso noticed that "source direct" only seems to function effectively with multi-channel SACD/DVD-A titles, it does'nt seem to add any additional affect with 2-channel SACD's (at least from my testing). I can play 2-channel SACD's at the same level's I've always used. However I have to lower volume maybe 5dB or 6dB when I play a multi-channel title.

I've never understood exactly what SourceDirect does. Can someone explain...particularly about the 50hz and 100hz filter settings?

,
So, then...for those of us in the U.S. who never use PAL, is there really any reason to upgrade from Version 7 to the Version 8 firmware?

We're talking about two different things here...

The firmware (8284-7 and the latest 8284-8) can be updated by anyone by using a CDR, and the firmware usually seems to affect audio/SACD and overall player stability.

The Realta chip software (which probably is some kind of firmware) can never be upgraded by us owners, latest version is called "IP 070518" which according to Dutchman fixes a problem with PAL discs.

Thanks for clarifying, but if firmware 8284-8 doesn't address the PAL issue, than what does it do?

The fact is that each time I've updated my firmware since the original version, which gave me all kinds of problems, it's gotten better. Now, except for when I hit too many function buttons in too fast of a sequence, my 3930 plays pretty smoothly these days. On the other hand, if there's an improvement to be had, I'd certainly like to have it.;)

I've never understood exactly what SourceDirect does. Can someone explain...particularly about the 50hz and 100hz filter settings?

Source direct is used when you want to forgo all speaker settings, such as bass management and time delay. Avoid this if you are using the player's analog section, don't have a set of full-range speakers, and want bass management done in the player.

Most AVRs and pre/pros do not do bass management for incoming multichannel analog signals. If an AVR does do this, then it requires additional analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog steps. Having the player handle the speaker adjustments is optimal for overall fidelity for the reason just mentioned. The 2930 and 3930 have great bass management flexibility, so the player should have what's needed for most setups.

The 50kHz and 100kHz settings apply to SACD only, because the format can output audio at really high frequencies that may damage some speakers and/or amps. The 50kHz setting caps SACD's output for this reason.

Avoid this if you are using the player's analog section, don't have a set of full-range speakers, and want bass management done in the player.I'm using 5.1ch analog OUT's on the DVD-3930CI right now. My front speakers are full range (Monitor Audio GS-60's), my center and rears are not full range (Monitor Audio GS-LCR, Energy RC-R's). Overall seems to handle full-range pretty good. My NAD T175 processor does not do bass-management for analog, although it does via-HDMI (PCM). Not sure whether the DVD-3930CI does SACD over HDMI-PCM (v1.1)?

Not sure whether the DVD-3930CI does SACD over HDMI-PCM (v1.1)?

Unless Denon made some changes via firmware, it doesn't output SACD audio as PCM over HDMI. The only way to get SACD audio with the 2930/3930 is to use analog or Denon Link.

. Avoid this if you are using the player's analog section, don't have a set of full-range speakers, and want bass management done in the player.

.

My view point is actually the opposite.
When I'm playing 2 channel music source direct is always on because I want the cleanest path, no BM or anything else like it.

My view point is actually the opposite.
When I'm playing 2 channel music source direct is always on because I want the cleanest path, no BM or anything else like it.

If you're satisfied with your speakers' handling of the low end, then definitely use source direct if you also don't require time delay and channel trims done by the player. My comment was directed towards those who may not have speakers with a particularly good handling of lower frequencies and wish to cover the whole audible spectrum by using a good external sub.

When I'm playing 2 channel music source direct is always on because I want the cleanest path, no BM or anything else like it.you mean when playing regular (redbook) 2-channel CD sources, or 2-channel SACD sources? Did'nt think you could invoke source direct with CD's, does'nt the DVD-3930CI, or any player, output these full-range by default?

you mean when playing regular (redbook) 2-channel CD sources, or 2-channel SACD sources? Did'nt think you could invoke source direct with CD's, does'nt the DVD-3930CI, or any player, output these full-range by default?

I believe he's referring to the multichannel analog output, where all sources are affected by the speaker settings you use when source direct is off.

If you're satisfied with your speakers' handling of the low end, then definitely use source direct. My comment was directed towards those who may not have speakers with a particularly good handling of lower frequencies and wish to cover the whole audible spectrum by using a good external sub.

Ah...I see. That makes sense.

Was thinking of my application only.
I use the 3930 in two different systems.
My audio system has no sub, just the 3930, an amp and two speakers. Real basic.
This makes me realize I should probably take the Source Direct Off when I move the 3930 into my HT system.

I'm not sure if Source Direct can be used on redbook, I use the machine primarily for Hi-Rez.

I've never used the Multi Channel outputs, though I intend to someday. I always use the stereo outputs.

Who knows.....maybe I've got this thing set all wrong. Can't tell from reading the manual ;)

The only way to get SACD audio with the 2930/3930 is to use analog or Denon Link.that's what I thought.

DVD-3930CI maual is somewhat vague (to me) in regards to proper, or appropriate, set-up and confugration for playing SACD or DVD-A sources, and using source direct function.

On page 23 the manual state's for Source Direct: "set this to output the disc's information as such without making the AUDIO CHANNEL, SPEAKER SETUP."

On page 24, top left corner, states: "When set to '50kHz' or '100kHz' you can enjoy the DTS recommended full-range all-channel sound. (note however that the subwoofer volume increases by 5dB, or by 15dB for Super Audio CD's). In addition, the 6-channel sources of DVD-A disc's recorded in the all-channel full-range frequency model can also be played. In this case make analog connections as described in the disc's instructions."

Also states: "When settinfg '50kHz' or '100kHz' set all the speaker sizes to LARGE, and the subwoofer to 'YES'."

I'm using source direct 50kHz, with all speakers set = LARGE. Guess I could re-set my center and rears to SMALL since they are not full-range?

thanks for your input!

I use the machine primarily for Hi-Rez.I've never used the Multi Channel outputs, though I intend to someday. I always use the stereo outputsIf I'm correct "source direct" has no affect when using the 2ch analog OUT's. The output should be full-range.

If I'm correct "source direct" has no affect when using the 2ch analog OUT's. The output should be full-range.

I hope you're right because then I won't have to worry about shuttling On and Off depending on which system it's sitting in.

I can leave it Off

Having the player handle the speaker adjustments is optimal for overall fidelity for the reason just mentionedSince my NAD T175 does decode Dolby Digital and DTS is it favorable to have DVD-3930CI send bit-stream via-HDMI (using "MULTI NORMAL" selection). Or should I let Denon decode Dolby Digital and DTS and send it as PCM via-HDMI? For watching DVD-Movies

I hope you're right because then I won't have to worry about shuttling On and Off depending on which system it's sitting in. I can leave it OffI believe if you switch connections from 2ch OUT's to the 5.1ch front-left and front-right connections source direct will have effect.

You should read manual, page 10, "Connections to a Device with 2-channels of Analog Audio Inputs", etc.,...

I'm using source direct 50kHz, with all speakers set = LARGE. Guess I could re-set my center and rears to SMALL since they are not full-range?


If you have a good external sub that handles frequencies lower than your non-mains, then it would be optimal to redirect those lower frequencies to the sub. Really low frequency information is usually reserved for the mains, but that's obviously dependent on the source. In my opinion, a good calibration redirects bass from any speaker that doesn't completely cover the low end of the audible spectrum.

Since my NAD T175 does decode Dolby Digital and DTS is it favorable to have DVD-3930CI send bit-stream via-HDMI (using "MULTI NORMAL" selection). Or should I let Denon decode Dolby Digital and DTS and send it as PCM via-HDMI? For watching DVD-Movies

Bit-streaming the compressed signal is generally preferred when using digital connectivity for regular DVD sources. Doing so ensures that the audio is handled by only one DSP chipset and therefore prevents possible confounding factors. The DVD-Audio format is different in the sense that the lossless MLP codec must always be decoded within the player.

Analog is a different story for regular DVD, however, as the decoding obviously must take place in the player and it is preferred that all post-processing also takes place in the player.

Bit-streaming the compressed signal is generally preferred when using digital connectivity for regular DVD sources. Doing so ensures that the audio is handled by only one DSP chipset and therefore prevents possible confounding factors. The DVD-Audio format is different in the sense that the lossless MLP codec must always be decoded within the playerappreciate your input MSmith83. I experimented a little last night. I played a "live" concert DVD-Movie, "Chick Corea, The Ultimate Adventure". I re-set HDMI AUDIO to "MULTI (LPCM)", my NAD T175 processor switches to "DIRECT" mode. I thought it sounded very nice with DTS 5.1 track, maybe a litte better (more dynamic) than BitStreaming (with NAD doing decoding).

i just made my 2930 region free, but i am only able to view it if i switch the output to vga (pc). all the other selections turn up as a blank screen on my samsung 46" lcd (4661-1080p). i have the player connected directly with hdmi. anyone have this also?

i just made my 2930 region free, but i am only able to view it if i switch the output to vga (pc). all the other selections turn up as a blank screen on my samsung 46" lcd (4661-1080p). i have the player connected directly with hdmi. anyone have this also?

I have made my 2930 region free without a problem. Check your setup menu. Make sure you have the TV type set to NTSC (assuming that is what you have).
You can try repeating the region-free procedure. I believe that will return the player back to the original region.

Can anyone advise me about the following:
I have the DVI input on my TV connected to the HDMI output of my above DENON.
My understanding is that there are 3 different types of video formats available through HDMI output of my above DENON: YCbCr or RGB or PC Res.
Could you please advise me what type of format through HDMI connection is the best (considering that my TV can support all 3 formats):
YCbCr or RGB or PC Res?
My understanding from the Denon manual is that PC resolution is the best because it is listed as the first option.
(Denon manual recommends on the page 29 :"...Set to YCbCr or RGB if the TV monitor is NOT compatible with Computer (PC) resolutions.)
Please advise whether PC resolution is the best connection option out of all 3 options.

Is the frequency of the output 60 Hz in ALL 3 above formats?
:confused:
Thanks.

I have just acquired a Denon 3930 DVD player and was hopeful that I could ask for some advice from experienced owners. I have searched through the thread but I found it all very VERY overwhelming. So apologies if some or all of these have been answered before...

I think these are the settings I was thinking of using having done some research in this thread and others. What do you guys think ? Please let me have any other suggestions ?
O.K. Here goes...

Is there a way of telling whether the Denon 3930 (my player) has already had the REALTA upgrade or not ? I believe that if I do a firmware check and I see the number IP 070518 then it IS an upgraded player. Is that correct ?

My set-up will be Denon 3930 via HDMI into a - Denon AVR-3808 via HDMI into my - Sim2 RTX 55H DLP display. The Sim2 RTX 55H has a native res of 720p. I was hoping to use the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection between the 3930 dvd and the AVR-3808 receiver. So I assume I have the Denon Link setting set to 3rd and the Source Direct set to 100kHz ? Is that correct ? This will give me ALL the audio options for both Dolby Digital and DTS DVD's and multi-channel sound from DVD-Audio discs and SACD's ? Is this right ?

Do I need to turn-off the other audio outputs (i.e. HDMI audio out, digital coax audio out etc etc) in order to get the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection to work properly? I'm assuming Denon Link is preferred over HDMI for audio ?

Also, shall I set the Auto AV sync set to HDMI on the 3930 ? Has anyone had any lip-sync issues with their 3930 into a new Denon receiver like the 3808 ?

I was assuming I should use the HDMI select (Video Mode) output set to: YCbCr (not RGB). Is this correct or is RGB the better setting ? Some have indicated that the RGB Enhanced setting is preferred over the RGB Normal and the YCbCr setting if your display can handle it and display it properly. Is this correct ?

The Set-Up Level is the next setting I'm having an issue with. I assume the 0 IRE will be the best setting and give me more dynamic range in contrast than the 7.5 IRE setting. In my set-up do you think the 0 IRE setting is better ?

What would be the best setting in the HDMI Audio Set-Up menu if I want to have the Denon AVR-3808 do all the sound processing ? I'm assuming I set this to Multi-Channel normal as that outputs bitstream signals which will then be sent via HDMI to the AVR-3808 for processing. Is this correct ? Is this still the case when using the Denon Link connection (if that is preferable) ?

HDMI Auto Format... I'm hazy on this, but I assume I set this to Panel Res. ? Or would the Max Res. setting be better ? My display is 720p native.

Next, what on earth are the PURE DIRECT and modes 1 and modes 2 about ? Sorry, this is as clear as mud in the 3930 manual! :confused:

Also, the Audio Settings menu is quite vague... what settings should I use for Audio Channel, Digital Output, Down Sampling, Source Direct, Bass Enhancer, Compression etc etc. I assume as I'll be using either Denon Link 3rd or HDMI these settings are going to be negated (is this correct?), but I may occassionally use the coax digital output too. I also assume that I should turn OFF the Enhancer and Compression options ? (I'm an audio purist!;) ). I also assume I won't be needing the V.S.S (Virtual Surround Sound menu either) ?

Lastly, is the Denon Link 3rd Edition cable in the box the best cable to use for the Denon Link connection ?
Do Denon do better cables for Denon Link application ? If so, are they worth it ?

Phew....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!:thumbsup::smashin:

M.J.

I have just acquired a Denon 3930 DVD player and was hopeful that I could ask for some advice from experienced owners. I have searched through the thread but I found it all very VERY overwhelming. So apologies if some or all of these have been answered before...

O.K. Here goes...M.J.
I can't answer all your questions, but let me take a stab at those for which I might be able to help...

Is there a way of telling whether the Denon 3930 (my player) has already had the REALTA upgrade or not ? I believe that if I do a firmware check and I see the number IP 070518 then it IS an upgraded player. Is that correct ?

I believe so, but hopefully someone else will respond to this one.

My set-up will be Denon 3930 via HDMI into a - Denon AVR-3808 via HDMI into my - Sim2 RTX 55H DLP display. The Sim2 RTX 55H has a native res of 720p. I was hoping to use the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection between the 3930 dvd and the AVR-3808 receiver. So I assume I have the Denon Link setting set to 3rd and the Source Direct set to 100kHz ? Is that correct ? This will give me ALL the audio options for both Dolby Digital and DTS DVD's and multi-channel sound from DVD-Audio discs and SACD's ? Is this right ?

When using DenonLink 3rd Edition, the Source Direct function is deactivated as all bass management and audio processing except for the actual reading of the DVD-A and SACD signals are done in the receiver. Once you select DenonLink 3, just about all the Audio settings in the '3930 are grayed out.

Do I need to turn-off the other audio outputs (i.e. HDMI audio out, digital coax audio out etc etc) in order to get the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection to work properly? I'm assuming Denon Link is preferred over HDMI for audio?

Yes, DenonLink is a superior digital audio connection -- read the description of it on the Denon website. As mentioned, if you select it the player's audio settings will be deactivated, though I believe for HDMI you should select two-channel. On your AVR 3808CI, go into the source options for your DVD player and select DenonLink as your digital audio connection. You'll also need to use the input button on your AVR remote to select "Digital" as your audio source. It will stay there until you toggle to once of the other choices. The other choices will be Auto, HDMI, Analog and Ext. In. For video, select whatever HDMI input you're using for the '3930

Also, shall I set the Auto AV sync set to HDMI on the 3930 ? Has anyone had any lip-sync issues with their 3930 into a new Denon receiver like the 3808?

I've never been clear about this, but I've got mine set to HDMI and it's always seemed to be in sync. Maybe someone else will explain.

I was assuming I should use the HDMI select (Video Mode) output set to: YCbCr (not RGB). Is this correct or is RGB the better setting ? Some have indicated that the RGB Enhanced setting is preferred over the RGB Normal and the YCbCr setting if your display can handle it and display it properly. Is this correct ?

Again, I'm using YCbCr @ 1080I for my 768 native resolution screen and it looks the best of the choices I've tried. However, because my TV has a DVI input, everything is converted to RGB anyway. YMMV, though.

The Set-Up Level is the next setting I'm having an issue with. I assume the 0 IRE will be the best setting and give me more dynamic range in contrast than the 7.5 IRE setting. In my set-up do you think the 0 IRE setting is better?

Not sure, but I believe 7.5 is the default and that looks best for my LCD rear projection TV.

What would be the best setting in the HDMI Audio Set-Up menu if I want to have the Denon AVR-3808 do all the sound processing ? I'm assuming I set this to Multi-Channel normal as that outputs bitstream signals which will then be sent via HDMI to the AVR-3808 for processing. Is this correct ? Is this still the case when using the Denon Link connection (if that is preferable) ?

Yes. Also, if you're going to be playing SACD's and DVD-A's through DenonLink, or HDMI for the latter, make sure the player is set to "Audio" in one of the other menus. Otherwise, the player will pick up the Dolby Digital or DTS layer on a DVD-A, rather than the true DVD-A MLP uncompressed layer on the disk.

HDMI Auto Format... I'm hazy on this, but I assume I set this to Panel Res. ? Or would the Max Res. setting be better ? My display is 720p native.

Try both and see what looks best. I use Max.

Next, what on earth are the PURE DIRECT and modes 1 and modes 2 about ? Sorry, this is as clear as mud in the 3930 manual! :confused:

These modes enable you to shut down the player's video circuits, digital audio circuits and/or display lights, based on how you set up each mode in the menu. Supposedly this provides a more "pure" signal, though I can't hear an audible difference myself. BTW, if you're using DenonLink, than you don't want to turn off the digital audio outputs.

Also, the Audio Settings menu is quite vague... what settings should I use for Audio Channel, Digital Output, Down Sampling, Source Direct, Bass Enhancer, Compression etc etc. I assume as I'll be using either Denon Link 3rd or HDMI these settings are going to be negated (is this correct?), but I may occassionally use the coax digital output too. I also assume that I should turn OFF the Enhancer and Compression options ? (I'm an audio purist!;) ). I also assume I won't be needing the V.S.S (Virtual Surround Sound menu either) ?

These settings are mostly for analog audio output. If you're using DenonLink, they'll be grayed out.

Lastly, is the Denon Link 3rd Edition cable in the box the best cable to use for the Denon Link connection ? Do Denon do better cables for Denon Link application ? If so, are they worth it ?

Good question. I've been using the supplied DenonLink cable without problem, but I dont' know whether the expensive accessory DL cable they sell is any better. I'd be interested to hear whatever anyone else says about this.

I can't answer all your questions, but let me take a stab at those for which I might be able to help...

Is there a way of telling whether the Denon 3930 (my player) has already had the REALTA upgrade or not ? I believe that if I do a firmware check and I see the number IP 070518 then it IS an upgraded player. Is that correct ?

I believe so, but hopefully someone else will respond to this one.

My set-up will be Denon 3930 via HDMI into a - Denon AVR-3808 via HDMI into my - Sim2 RTX 55H DLP display. The Sim2 RTX 55H has a native res of 720p. I was hoping to use the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection between the 3930 dvd and the AVR-3808 receiver. So I assume I have the Denon Link setting set to 3rd and the Source Direct set to 100kHz ? Is that correct ? This will give me ALL the audio options for both Dolby Digital and DTS DVD's and multi-channel sound from DVD-Audio discs and SACD's ? Is this right ?

When using DenonLink 3rd Edition, the Source Direct function is deactivated as all bass management and audio processing except for the actual reading of the DVD-A and SACD signals are done in the receiver. Once you select DenonLink 3, just about all the Audio settings in the '3930 are grayed out.

Do I need to turn-off the other audio outputs (i.e. HDMI audio out, digital coax audio out etc etc) in order to get the Denon Link 3rd Edition connection to work properly? I'm assuming Denon Link is preferred over HDMI for audio?

Yes, DenonLink is a superior digital audio connection -- read the description of it on the Denon website. As mentioned, if you select it the player's audio settings will be deactivated, though I believe for HDMI you should select two-channel. On your AVR 3808CI, go into the source options for your DVD player and select DenonLink as your digital audio connection. You'll also need to use the input button on your AVR remote to select "Digital" as your audio source. It will stay there until you toggle to once of the other choices. The other choices will be Auto, HDMI, Analog and Ext. In. For video, select whatever HDMI input you're using for the '3930

Also, shall I set the Auto AV sync set to HDMI on the 3930 ? Has anyone had any lip-sync issues with their 3930 into a new Denon receiver like the 3808?

I've never been clear about this, but I've got mine set to HDMI and it's always seemed to be in sync. Maybe someone else will explain.

I was assuming I should use the HDMI select (Video Mode) output set to: YCbCr (not RGB). Is this correct or is RGB the better setting ? Some have indicated that the RGB Enhanced setting is preferred over the RGB Normal and the YCbCr setting if your display can handle it and display it properly. Is this correct ?

Again, I'm using YCbCr @ 1080I for my 768 native resolution screen and it looks the best of the choices I've tried. However, because my TV has a DVI input, everything is converted to RGB anyway. YMMV, though.

The Set-Up Level is the next setting I'm having an issue with. I assume the 0 IRE will be the best setting and give me more dynamic range in contrast than the 7.5 IRE setting. In my set-up do you think the 0 IRE setting is better?

Not sure, but I believe 7.5 is the default and that looks best for my LCD rear projection TV.

What would be the best setting in the HDMI Audio Set-Up menu if I want to have the Denon AVR-3808 do all the sound processing ? I'm assuming I set this to Multi-Channel normal as that outputs bitstream signals which will then be sent via HDMI to the AVR-3808 for processing. Is this correct ? Is this still the case when using the Denon Link connection (if that is preferable) ?

Yes. Also, if you're going to be playing SACD's and DVD-A's through DenonLink, or HDMI for the latter, make sure the player is set to "Audio" in one of the other menus. Otherwise, the player will pick up the Dolby Digital or DTS layer on a DVD-A, rather than the true DVD-A MLP uncompressed layer on the disk.

HDMI Auto Format... I'm hazy on this, but I assume I set this to Panel Res. ? Or would the Max Res. setting be better ? My display is 720p native.

Try both and see what looks best. I use Max.

Next, what on earth are the PURE DIRECT and modes 1 and modes 2 about ? Sorry, this is as clear as mud in the 3930 manual! :confused:

These modes enable you to shut down the player's video circuits, digital audio circuits and/or display lights, based on how you set up each mode in the menu. Supposedly this provides a more "pure" signal, though I can't hear an audible difference myself. BTW, if you're using DenonLink, than you don't want to turn off the digital audio outputs.

Also, the Audio Settings menu is quite vague... what settings should I use for Audio Channel, Digital Output, Down Sampling, Source Direct, Bass Enhancer, Compression etc etc. I assume as I'll be using either Denon Link 3rd or HDMI these settings are going to be negated (is this correct?), but I may occassionally use the coax digital output too. I also assume that I should turn OFF the Enhancer and Compression options ? (I'm an audio purist!;) ). I also assume I won't be needing the V.S.S (Virtual Surround Sound menu either) ?

These settings are mostly for analog audio output. If you're using DenonLink, they'll be grayed out.

Lastly, is the Denon Link 3rd Edition cable in the box the best cable to use for the Denon Link connection ? Do Denon do better cables for Denon Link application ? If so, are they worth it ?

Good question. I've been using the supplied DenonLink cable without problem, but I dont' know whether the expensive accessory DL cable they sell is any better. I'd be interested to hear whatever anyone else says about this.

Thanks so so much. You've been very helpful!
Does anyone else have anything to add or any feedback?
Thanks!:D

After updating to the 8284-8 firmware some of the menu items on the setup screen appear different. One item per page is missing the white border on the bottom and right. It does not change depending on the setting. Did I just miss this before or is it new?

I'm using YCbCr @ 1080I for my 768 native resolution screen and it looks the best of the choices I've tried. However, because my TV has a DVI input, everything is converted to RGB anywaywhich brand/model display are you using? My Pioneer PDP-4280HD Kuro plasma is native 768p (but accepts and processes 1080p), I'm using YCbCr @ 1080p, hard to tell which resolution is best.


I believe 7.5 is the default and that looks best for my LCD rear projection TVI'm still trying to figure out where to set IRE? (which menu?)

It's the Sony Wega III LCD rear projection TV which only accepts up to 1080I. I've always loved the PQ I get from the '3930CI with the HDMI set to1080I YCbCr. In some ways it's better than Blu-Ray...not as vivid, but excellent resolution and and a certain depth and richness to the colors, as opposed to the bright, but flat colors on BluRay.
I'm not in front of my player, but I think the IRE setting is in one of the main tabs. If not, try the menu that comes up when you hit the video setting menus at the bottom left of the remote. There's a wealth of video choices there.

thanks!

I'm still trying to figure out where to set IRE? (which menu?)


Its tucked away in the picture adjust options, not the main settings menus. Also there is a bug that it affects the digital output when it shouldnt. I believe most TVs should be 7.5 for 480i and 0 for all others. There are a few exceptions on a few sets relative to 480p.

Its tucked away in the picture adjust options, not the main settings menus. Also there is a bug that it affects the digital output when it shouldnt. I believe most TVs should be 7.5 for 480i and 0 for all others. There are a few exceptions on a few sets relative to 480p.very cool, thanks! So do you actually sitch IRE back-and-forth, from 7.5 for 480i to 0 for 1080, when changing from, say, SD cable-TV source to HD BluRay, etc.,...?

It's the Sony Wega III LCD rear projection TV which only accepts up to 1080I. I've always loved the PQ I get from the '3930CI with the HDMI set to1080I YCbCr. In some ways it's better than Blu-Ray...not as vivid, but excellent resolution and and a certain depth and richness to the colors, as opposed to the bright, but flat colors on BluRay.
I'm not in front of my player, but I think the IRE setting is in one of the main tabs. If not, try the menu that comes up when you hit the video setting menus at the bottom left of the remote. There's a wealth of video choices there.

I have the 3930 and several Blu-ray players. I've done many A/B comparisons over the past 18 months and there is no way the 3930 comes even close to Blu-ray quality. (And Blu-ray does not have flat colors - not by a long shot). (IMHO of course:))

very cool, thanks! So do you actually sitch IRE back-and-forth, from 7.5 for 480i to 0 for 1080, when changing from, say, SD cable-TV source to HD BluRay, etc.,...?

Calibrate your display w/ IRE set to "0" - and then leave it there for all sources. Trust me:). (Denon should never have set IRE default at 7.5)

I have the 3930 and several Blu-ray players. I've done many A/B comparisons over the past 18 months and there is no way the 3930 comes even close to Blu-ray quality. (And Blu-ray does not have flat colors - not by a long shot). (IMHO of course:))
Maybe there's something lacking in my Samsung BDP 1400, but the difference between that and my DVD 3930CI when upscaling it to 1080I simply is not as dramatic as, say, the difference between SD and HD from DirecTV. There's just something very appealing about the PQ from the '3930 -- more film-like, perhaps with a real warmth to the colors as opposed to the sharpness of Blu-Ray. Anyway, I consider having the '3930 for SD DVD and even an average Blu-Ray player to be the best of both worlds since there are still so many SD DVD movies out there.

I agree you need two players. I myself have 2,000+ SD DVD's - so I'll always need a high quality SD player like the 3930!

I've yet to test a Blu-Ray disc player that can beat my 3930 for SD audio/video quality. The new contender however (that I haven't tested yet) is the 3800 ($2,000. MSRP). The only thing keeping me away from this model (as far as using as a SD DVD player) is the .5 second layer change pause. The 3930 has a "zero" layer change pause. And yes I'm a layer cahnge fanatic. (luckily Blue-ray discs have none:))

I've yet to test a Blu-Ray disc player that can beat my 3930 for SD audio/video quality. The new contender however (that I haven't tested yet) is the 3800 ($2,000. MSRP).
Unless space is a consideration, isn't the ideal combination, at least from a cost standpoint, to hold onto the '3930 for SD DVD -- and music, of course --and get the Denon Blu-Ray transport (2500) for Blu-Ray? That's my plan. I got the P.O.S. Samsung BDP 1400 around Xmas because it was super cheap then, but my long-term plan is to swap it for the Denon 2500.

Unless space is a consideration, isn't the ideal combination, at least from a cost standpoint, to hold onto the '3930 for SD DVD -- and music, of course --and get the Denon Blu-Ray transport (2500) for Blu-Ray? That's my plan. I got the P.O.S. Samsung BDP 1400 around Xmas because it was super cheap then, but my long-term plan is to swap it for the Denon 2500.

I will keep my 3930 because it is the best player for standard dvd I have seen, and I have seen many players. When the realta is optimized, this is as good a picture as dvd can look. I own a ps3 but want to just use that for games so I plan on getting a stand-alone blu-ray player. I won't buy the new Denons because they are not final profile, and if I am going to spend that much I want them to do everything blu-ray can do. I am thinking about the new Panasonic dmp-bd50 or the new Sony models coming out...I have seen the Denon and Panasonic dmp-bd30 side by side playing several different blu-rays on 2 different televisions (we did a test one night at a friend's home) and there was no difference in quality that either of us could see or hear. Having just purchased a Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver and this Denon 3930, considering I have to pay the rest of those off, I will not go as expensive on the blu-ray..to me they look pretty much the same as less expensive models. I am, however, SO happy with my 3930 for my big dvd collection.

Unless space is a consideration, isn't the ideal combination, at least from a cost standpoint, to hold onto the '3930 for SD DVD -- and music, of course --and get the Denon Blu-Ray transport (2500) for Blu-Ray? That's my plan. I got the P.O.S. Samsung BDP 1400 around Xmas because it was super cheap then, but my long-term plan is to swap it for the Denon 2500.

I owned the 2500 for 6 weeks. It was very impressive - but does have several issues. I think the new Panny BD-50 (2.0) will be the hot ticket. However - I personally am waiting for the new Pioneer Elite 05 (June).

The 2500 was pretty much a Panny BD-30 on the inside. At twice the price. With the same isues as the BD-30. But no firmware from Denon yet to correct those issues. And for some reason - I had some minor handshake issues between my 2500 and JVC RS1 projector.

Calibrate your display w/ IRE set to "0" - and then leave it there for all sources. Trust me. (Denon should never have set IRE default at 7.5)thanks John! I will definitely try this out.
Is there any retailer locally that you know of that sells DVE or HD Basic's calibration tools?

Yes, I still think the Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD will be one of the best up-coming BD products (based on the PQ and overall quality of the current BDP-95FD). Especially since this is a complete, ground-up, design. I expect a slight improvement (over the BDP-95FD) in PQ as well as impressive audio section.

I will be hoefully testing my new DVD-3800BDCI tonight.

^ GREAT! Let us know your thoughts re: 3800 (in the 3800 thread).

The one thing I would like to know ...is the navigation/remote control quicker/more responsive? This is my only pet peeve re: 3930.

Hi Dutchman:
Did you notice any differences in the performance of your 3930 with the new firmware?

Here my report about the 8284-8 firmware for the DENON DVD3930CI-DVD-3930.


I did flash this firmware about 10 day's ago and used the 3930 a lot.

I did play lot's of DVD-VIDEO, DVD-AUDIO, CD and SACD disc's last week and the only thing i think the whole time;

WOW, DENON did it again!!! :):):)

The 3930 is a great unit and after 1 year and a half it is on the markt they still make new firmware's for it.
Denon does everything they can do to make this unit better and better from the first firmware update till the latest realease.

Again with firmware 8th they improof the quality of this unit.

Until firmware 7th the SACD playback was not always that good.
Some SACD disc's did only play (hybrid disc) the cd content on it becouse the 3930 did not found the DSD stream and
Sometimes when i did trow the same disc in the unit again it did play the DSD stream correct.

Now with the 8th firmware on it, it eats everything again and again and again.

No more problems with SACD.
The unit find the DSD Stream faster and when it starts playing it's also about 1 second faster. No longer that long waiting time. :)

Firmware 8th performs really great.


So to all who did not flash the 3930 yet,
Go update your player fast!!!.


http://rapidshare.com/files/103009176/GEN8284-8_111_DVD-3930CI_and_DVD-3930.zip


Thanks DENON, for the great support on the DVD-3930 player.:)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
When does come firmware 9??? LOL :):):)

And THANK YOU Dutchman! (Denon should put you on their payroll :))

Until firmware 7th the SACD playback was not always that good.
Some SACD disc's did only play (hybrid disc) the cd content on it becouse the 3930 did not found the DSD stream and
Sometimes when i did trow the same disc in the unit again it did play the DSD stream correct.

Now with the 8th firmware on it, it eats everything again and again and again.

No more problems with SACD.
The unit find the DSD Stream faster and when it starts playing it's also about 1 second faster. No longer that long waiting time. :)






Can you please clarify this point ?

I understand the new firmware is an improvement because it allows the player to better recognize Hybrid discs (and it is faster to respond).

Is there any audible differences to the sound or is it just a usability improvement.

Thanks :)

it's a huge usability improvement on the SACD part.

I can confirm what Dutchman01 have of experience with the new firmware. SACD plays and sounds better.
I have used the new firmware for 10 days and no problem whats so ever. The 3930 have just become better.

After updating to the 8284-8 firmware some of the menu items on the setup screen appear different. One item per page is missing the white border on the bottom and right. It does not change depending on the setting. Did I just miss this before or is it new?

Did anyone notice this? I will try to take pictures.

Can you go HDMI right to the TV and the DL to the Denon receiver from the 2930 so at night somebody wouldn't have to turn on the receiver to watch a DVD.

Did anyone notice this? I will try to take pictures.

yes make the pictures,
i like to see this to.

strange, everything is normal here in my setup.

The last months i do get a lot of PM with questions about the DVD-2930 or the DVD-2930 firmware.

First thing i have to say is that i really want to help those owners with the DVD-2930 but i can't do that for 100%.

I do own a DVD-3930 and not a DVD-2930.
I know that the units does look like the same but, they are different at some big points. (Not talking about the Dimensions or Weight):):):) LOL
I can't test firmware's for those unit's and i can't tell you what is best firmware to use.


The good thing i can say to the 2930 owners, i don't leave you alone or in the dark.:)


Here is the latest firmware for the DENON DVD-2930CI and DVD-2930.

http://rapidshare.com/files/106525467/DENON_DVD-2930CI_DVD-2930.zip


Date: 08.08.2007 Version: 8283-B

Changelog:

When "Track Skip Fwd/Rev" button is pushed early two times or more when
the CD-DA disc is PAUSE, "Play" button is not accepted;
The repeat function was turned on when the SACD disc had stopped and it played, or the SACD disc is played by the All Repeat function.
Afterwards, the repeat function doesn't operate when stopping and playing.
DVD-AUDIO cannot be played when "Right" of "Cursor" or "Left" is pushed when "Page" of "Image quality adjustment screen" is displayed, it freezes it by "Gamma display".

------------------------------------------------------------------------


This firmware is for all units around the world no matther what regio or country.

Read the the instruction i did add to the zip file.

I Hope that all DVD-2930 users will be happy now.:)

Dutchman01.

Cool. Now we have it posted twice:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11283214#post11283214

The last months i do get a lot of PM with questions about the DVD-2930 or the DVD-2930 firmware.

First thing i have to say is that i really want to help those owners with the DVD-2930 but i can't do that for 100%.

I do own a DVD-3930 and not a DVD-2930.
I know that the units does look like the same but, they are different at some big points. (Not talking about the Dimensions or Weight):):):) LOL
I can't test firmware's for those unit's and i can't tell you what is best firmware to use.


The good thing i can say to the 2930 owners, i don't leave you alone or in the dark.:)


Here is the latest firmware for the DENON DVD-2930CI and DVD-2930.

http://rapidshare.com/files/106525467/DENON_DVD-2930CI_DVD-2930.zip


Date: 08.08.2007 Version: 8283-B

Changelog:

When "Track Skip Fwd/Rev" button is pushed early two times or more when
the CD-DA disc is PAUSE, "Play" button is not accepted;
The repeat function was turned on when the SACD disc had stopped and it played, or the SACD disc is played by the All Repeat function.
Afterwards, the repeat function doesn't operate when stopping and playing.
DVD-AUDIO cannot be played when "Right" of "Cursor" or "Left" is pushed when "Page" of "Image quality adjustment screen" is displayed, it freezes it by "Gamma display".

------------------------------------------------------------------------


This firmware is for all units around the world no matther what regio or country.

Read the the instruction i did add to the zip file.

I Hope that all DVD-2930 users will be happy now.:)

Dutchman01.

Can you go HDMI right to the TV and the DL to the Denon receiver from the 2930 so at night somebody wouldn't have to turn on the receiver to watch a DVD.
Yes, but the HDMI output will be downmixed to two-channel, I believe. However, if it's going into your TV, that shouldn't make any difference.

Dutchman,

I have see that the new firmware is 4 MB, it´s much bigger than previous ones.

Do you know if the new firmrware "update" the Realta chip software?

My 3930 it´s now at the service here in Spain for that but they say that there is no firmware update for the 3930 :o

Nacho.

I have see that the new firmware is 4 MB, it´s much bigger than previous ones.

Do you know if the new firmrware "update" the Realta chip software?

My 3930 it´s now at the service here in Spain for that but they say that there is no firmware update for the 3930 :o


Although you asked Dutchman, I'll attempt to clarify.

The previous firmware version (8284-7) was also c:a 4 MB in size.
The files shared via Fileshare are zipped (compressed) and about 1.4 MB in size in Zip-format, they become 4 MB when unzipped.

So I guess the size has not changed much with the new version (8284-8).
And no, it is not likely that the Realta chip upgrade is included, since Denon has quite clearly stated that this cannot be upgraded via a CDR, it must be fixed by their technicians.

It's strange that service in Spain says there is no update for the 3930.
Do ask them about specific firmware versions!

That update seems to have fixed at least one bug I've reported - Random playback on SACD now works reliably. It used to keep sticking at the end of tracks.

Yes, but the HDMI output will be downmixed to two-channel, I believe. However, if it's going into your TV, that shouldn't make any difference.

Thanks.

Dutchman,

I have see that the new firmware is 4 MB, it´s much bigger than previous ones.

Do you know if the new firmrware "update" the Realta chip software?

My 3930 it´s now at the service here in Spain for that but they say that there is no firmware update for the 3930 :o

Nacho.
There is no firmware update on CDR that can update the Realta chip.

The Realta update can only be done by a Denon Service Department.
The must open the unit and must do it from the insite.

It's good possible Denon Spain does not know yet about this update.
They must make contact to the Europe Head Office: DENON Germany.

They can deliver al stuff to Denon Spain what they need and how to do it.
Denon Germany is the one that make the fault not to inform all other Denon Service Departments and users of the Denon DVD-3930.

Last year i notice a whole story in a german forum

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/Dutchman01/www.jpg

So thats why i notice it.

Just got a 2930ci to replace my broken 3910 (couldn't afford the 3930ci). I have it calibrated and dialed in and everything looks and sounds great. All the audio thru DLink works wonderful, except for the sacd playback. I have been unable to get any audio from a sacd unless I run it thru the analog cables. Is there a magic button I haven't pushed? ;) Thanks.

Just got a 2930ci to replace my broken 3910 (couldn't afford the 3930ci). I have it calibrated and dialed in and everything looks and sounds great. All the audio thru DLink works wonderful, except for the sacd playback. I have been unable to get any audio from a sacd unless I run it thru the analog cables. Is there a magic button I haven't pushed? ;) Thanks.
Do you have it set to DenonLink 3? The earlier versions of DLink did not support SACD.

Do you have it set to DenonLink 3? The earlier versions of DLink did not support SACD.
The 2903? Yes, I did that. Thank you for the suggestion.

The 2903? Yes, I did that. Thank you for the suggestion.
And it's still not outputting SACD over DenonLink?:confused: How about the SACD setting on the front panel (if it's like the '3930)? If you've got it set for the CD layer, as opposed to Stereo of Multi-Channel which are for SACD, then an SACD without a CD layer won't play.

And it's still not outputting SACD over DenonLink?:confused: How about the SACD setting on the front panel (if it's like the '3930)? If you've got it set for the CD layer, as opposed to Stereo of Multi-Channel which are for SACD, then an SACD without a CD layer won't play.
Thanks for trying to help. I have tried changing to Multi-channel "and" stereo and still nothing. Again, it will work using Analog, but not DLink. I will attempt to contact Denon this afternoon, but I dont expect much help from them.

What receiver have you got, Denny? Last I saw you had an AVR-3801. I assume you've upgraded.

Are you sure the receiver is taking its input from the Denon Link, not the optical or coax?

which player has the best upconverter, 3930ci or bd3800? this is to be connected to avr 5308ci

What receiver have you got, Denny? Last I saw you had an AVR-3801. I assume you've upgraded.

Are you sure the receiver is taking its input from the Denon Link, not the optical or coax?
I have the 3805 3rd ed. I had "only" the dlink hooked up at first and everything worked great except the sacd. Then, I hooked up the analogs, to make sure that the sacd worked, period. It did using analogs, but still nothing with dlink.
And, great to hear from ya again.

maphiker,

Have you heard any rumors or specifics about a 2930 firmware update?

i have one too and it has no problems, but if there is something out there...

Yes. I can confirm. There is a new firmware update for the 2930. :) It is version 8283-C. I knew whenever Denon updates the 3930 they simultaneously update the 2930.

Unfortunately :( I can not send it out to everyone. I had to promise not to give it out or post it on forums. But now that you know there actually is an update, you will be able to get it from Denon. If you get problems from Denon, then I suggest talking to someone a little more senior than the over-worked people that answer the phones.

I also confirm,

I think they did also improof the SACD reading on the 2930 so far as i look at the info i read today.
German users report they got this firmware from late januarie 2008.

Looks like the same situation like the 3930, not hosted yet on the support site.

Good to know they still make the 2930 a lot better than it was and support on the unit is also not over yet.

Let us know your thoughts re: 3800. The one thing I would like to know ...is the navigation/remote control quicker/more responsive? This is my only pet peeve re: 3930.with the little testing I've done so far using my new DVD-3800BDCI the remote response/navigation is better. It definitely seems smoother and slightly faster than the DVD-3930CI. The DVD-3800BDCI is a completely different "animal" (I think).

The disc-loading read times vary using BD titles. For example I timed the BD title "The Brave One" (Jodie Foster), it takes approx. 58sec, from the point of setting disc in tray and pressing "open" button, to the point where the first "warning" message/disclaimer appears on screen. It takes a total of 1min, 35sec to display the main menu. Other BD titles were a little faster, some slower.

I did a quick and dirty picture-quality comparison between the DVD-3930CI and DVD-3800BDCI for SD DVD- the DVD-3800BDCI is definitely better, not by a huge amount though. It was somewhat tough to tell after switching back-and-forth. But there was something about the DVD-3800BDCI's picture that was a little more vibrant, and maybe slightly sharper. Some users think the difference is huge (with the DVD-3800BDCI being better). You have to experience it for yourself. I plan to calibrate both players to my Pioneer Kuro plasma and then do another comparison.

The one noticeable thing, with the DVD-3800BDCI, it get's significantly warmer than the DVD-3930CI- much quicker.

^Thanks for the update!

I'm glad Denon improved the remote response/navigation in the 3800 (vs the 3930). Maybe someday a firmware update will arrive that will help us 3930 owners :)

I'm also glad Denon (from your perspective) was able to improve SD playback picture quality on the 3800 (vs the 3930). No small feat.

How's the SD layer change vs the 3930? I hear it's super quick (.5 seconds) - but not perfect as is the 3930.

Those BD loading times are about the same as my (previously owned) Denon 2500 transport. As you know I'm currently waiting on the new Pioneer Elite 05. Which I'm hoping will have loading times comparable to the PS3 (10 seconds!). We shall see.

Re: running warm. For some reason - Blu-ray players seem to run hotter than SD DVD players. I'm surprised Denon doesn't use a small fan on the back of their Blu-ray players (as does Sony/Pioneer/others). It really keeps the player running super cool even during prolonged viewing (i.e. watching the Lord Of The Rings triology back to back to back!). You also don't need to worry about giving the player "breathing room" in the rack. (For this reason alone - I wish my 3930 had a small fan)

Yes. I can confirm. There is a new firmware update for the 2930. :) It is version 8283-C. I knew whenever Denon updates the 3930 they simultaneously update the 2930.

Unfortunately :( I can not send it out to everyone. I had to promise not to give it out or post it on forums. But now that you know there actually is an update, you will be able to get it from Denon. If you get problems from Denon, then I suggest talking to someone a little more senior than the over-worked people that answer the phones.

Thanks! Any info on what this update does for you.

WestCoast,

As you may know, that article is an April Fool's joke. It seems that someone took Warner's announcement regarding HD DVD and Blu-ray, and made it apply to the high resolution music formats.

Thanks! Any info on what this update does for you.
The 2930 seems to respond more quickly. Nothing else I have noticed yet. I did not get any release notes with the update.
Chances are it does exactly what the update for the 3930 does.

As you may know, that article is an April Fool's joke. It seems that someone took Warner's announcement regarding HD DVD and Blu-ray, and made it apply to the high resolution music formats.thanks for verifying that (now I feel like the "fool" of the month:o)

thanks for verifying that (now I feel like the "fool" of the month:o)

That's why April 1 is my most disliked day of the year. You must remain skeptical of almost everything you hear, even if it's actually true.

I just tried to do the update using the ImgBurn software, and the 3930 wouldn't read the disc. I just chose the write files/folders to disc option, and burned the 3930 update folder to a blank CD-R. Is that not right? Will someone that has successfully installed it please tell what how they saved/burned the files to the CD-R. Thanks :)

I just tried to do the update using the ImgBurn software, and the 3930 wouldn't read the disc. I just chose the write files/folders to disc option, and burned the 3930 update folder to a blank CD-R. Is that not right? Will someone that has successfully installed it please tell what how they saved/burned the files to the CD-R. Thanks :)

As per Dutchman:
* Burn the Folder DVD_3930 with The content D393SAVD.ROM inside it on CD according to ISO 9660 (no juliet) at 4x or slower and close the CD.
For more information search this thread. (Search: "+firmware +cd")

Dutchman,

I have see that the new firmware is 4 MB, it´s much bigger than previous ones.

Do you know if the new firmrware "update" the Realta chip software?

My 3930 it´s now at the service here in Spain for that but they say that there is no firmware update for the 3930 :o

Nacho.

Here a old PM from DENON GERMANY HEAD QUARTERS EUROPE

Very honoured the on customer, cordial thanks for your numerous letters concerning the
De-Interlacing-problems of the DVD-3930 with selected PAL pAL-Filmmaterial.

After detailed examination in the quality assurance, we optimized the core firmware of the
De-Interlacers of the DVD-3930 in co-operation with the chip manufacturer with PAL pAL-Filmmaterial
in the automode so far as possible.
In particular by the optimization the following problems were repaired:

- brief arising comb effects (education horizontal black strip) with fast movements

(in particular in bright display spaces) with selected PAL pAL-Filmmaterial

- general improvement of the De-Interlacing-performance with selected difficult PAL pAL-Filmmaterial
(prevention of the occurrence of line flares on diagonal lines, improvement of the edge smoothing)
to to the chip limit

- recovery of memory problems "progressive fashion" The actualization of the core firmware silicone of
the Optix material TA chip requires an interference into the DVD-3930.
Depending upon status of the video board if necessary also a board exchange is necessary.
Therefore the update must be accomplished in each case only in an authorized DENON service workshop.
According to the guarantee conditions you please exclusively contact for a modification of your DVD-3930
your authorized the on dealer, with whom you acquired the equipment.
Attach this letter to the equipment, in order to shorten the time of the warranty repair completion.
Alternatively you use please as error description: "problems with the De-Interlacing with selected PAL
pAL-Filmmaterial in the automode" Cordial thanks for your patience and your understanding.
Yours sincerely, Product information team DENON Germany - division


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did copy and past it with the coversion tool http://babelfish.altavista.com/ from german to english.

Just recieved a 2930ci I purchased for 300.00 on e-bay.Got it up and running in about an hour.Hooked to a Denon 3808ci and a Sony Bravia 46 inch XBR4. Played a DVD and everything seems to be ok.I used the HDMI and Denon Link III.I have a couple of questions I was hoping some of you guy's could answer.Will the audio playback on SACD'S,audio DVD's and CD's automatically run thru the Denon Link III for superior sound ?In the set-up menu I chose Denon Link version III.Also everything seems to be ok so should I run the firmware updates or just leave it alone?I e-mailed the previous owner to see if he ran any updates and I am waiting on reply.If I do need the firmware update can I do it directly thru my reciever which is networked to my PC?I do not see much of a differance in the video quality over my 100.00 Sony up-convert player.Maybe I can play with some of the adjustments.This does not overly concern me as I bought this unit mainly for high-quality audio playback.I would never have spent 900 plus on a DVD player but a rarely used 1 year old 2930ci for 300 bucks seemed like a no-brainer to me.I will be upgrading to Blue-Ray soon for video.It is nice though to have a high-end Denon DVD player for my home theater set-up.:D

If I do need the firmware update can I do it directly thru my reciever which is networked to my PC?
If you want to apply a firmware update, you will need to download it and burn to CD to apply the update.
One link to the update is earlier in this thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11283214#post11283214

The file above is for version 8283-B and fixes the following:
•When "Track Skip Fwd/Rev" button is pushed early two times or more when the CD-DA disc is PAUSE, "Play" button is not accepted;
•The repeat function was turned on when the SACD disc had stopped and it played, or the SACD disc is played by the All Repeat function. Afterwards, the repeat function doesn't operate when stopping and playing.
•DVD-AUDIO cannot be played. (some?)
•When "Right" of "Cursor" or "Left" is pushed when "Page" of "Image quality adjustment screen" is displayed, it freezes it by "Gamma display".

Good luck and enjoy

If you want to apply a firmware update, you will need to download it and burn to CD to apply the update.
One link to the update is earlier in this thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11283214#post11283214

The file above is for version 8283-B and fixes the following:
•When "Track Skip Fwd/Rev" button is pushed early two times or more when the CD-DA disc is PAUSE, "Play" button is not accepted;
•The repeat function was turned on when the SACD disc had stopped and it played, or the SACD disc is played by the All Repeat function. Afterwards, the repeat function doesn't operate when stopping and playing.
•DVD-AUDIO cannot be played. (some?)
•When "Right" of "Cursor" or "Left" is pushed when "Page" of "Image quality adjustment screen" is displayed, it freezes it by "Gamma display".

Good luck and enjoy


Are you saying I need to download to a CD then play the CD in the player and it will be updated ??

Are you saying I need to download to a CD then play the CD in the player and it will be updated ??

Sorta like that:
Download the file, unzip, burn the folder and the file it contains to CD
Then:
- Connect your 2930 to your TV with a composite or S-Video cable then turn on your player and TV
- Take out any disk and close the tray
- Hold the Skip Forward >>I and Play> buttons down at the same time until you no longer see INITIALIZE on the screen
- Open the disk tray, put in the disk you burned and close
- Wait for a while and you should see LOADING, then FLASH-ERASE, then FLASH-WRITE, then VERIFY and finally it will say COMPLETE before it kicks out the disk
- Take out the disk, close the drawer, hit the small On/Off power button
- Turn on again while holding the Skip Forward >>I and Play> buttons down at the same time until you no longer see INITIALIZE on the screen
--> You're done

Notice, flashing firmware involves risk and potential damage to your player - don't try it if you're squeemish. Also, you should search this thread since all the questions you have asked have been discussed and answered before including troubleshooting advice that would be helpful for you to know before you attempt to update...

Good luck

Burn the Folder DVD_3930 with the content D393SAVD.ROM inside it on CD according to ISO 9660 (No Joliet) at 4x or slower and finalize the CD.
[I recommend NERO BURNING ROM for this job] a CD-RW works also without a problem.

If the update disc is not created or structured in this way the
player will not be able to read the update disc.

Hey a big thanks to both of you guy's.I contacted the previous owner and he informed me he never did any firmware updates and the player always functioned perfect.I have been using and tweaking it for 3 days now and I have to say it is a really nice player(a big upgrade over my 100.00 Sony)and it works perfectly.I think I will wait on any firmware updating as I believe firmly in the saying "if it aint broke,dont fix it".I am planning a trip to Best Buy this weekend to buy some SACD's.I can't wait to hear Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon thru this player.:D

Hey a big thanks to both of you guy's.I contacted the previous owner and he informed me he never did any firmware updates and the player always functioned perfect.I have been using and tweaking it for 3 days now and I have to say it is a really nice player(a big upgrade over my 100.00 Sony)and it works perfectly.I think I will wait on any firmware updating as I believe firmly in the saying "if it aint broke,dont fix it".I am planning a trip to Best Buy this weekend to buy some SACD's.I can't wait to hear Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon thru this player.:D
Also buy Dire Straits Brother in Arms.

Dire Straits Brother in Arms is one of the best SACD's i own.

perfect 5.1 mix.:)

Dire Straits Brother in Arms is one of the best SACD's i own.

perfect 5.1 mix.:)
I have in addition to Dire Straits "Brother In Arms" and Pink Floyd "Dark Side Of The Moon" , Steely Dan's "Gaucho" as one of my favourite SACD's. Very nice. Sounds excellent. SACD and DVD-Audio is really a new world compared to normal CD's.
I have a 3930 as the player. Upgraded to latest firmware level, 8284-8.

I am going to upgrade my 3930 today, hopefully.

As far as DVD-A and SACD goes, I have a bunch. Including Brothers in Arms (in both formats), and Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD(Japan pressing). But my favorite is Yes-Fragile DVD-A. That is such a great album. Now, if they would just release Yes-Close to the Edge, in DVD-A (or SACD), that would be even more awesome. And while they're at it..the original Dire Straits album.

I tried, again, to do the update. And I just can't get the DVD_3930 file to burn as an image file. It only wants to burn it as a date file. It also says the D393SAVD.ROM is not recognized as an image file. I've tried it with the ImageBurn and Nero8 trial software. Somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong. What burn software did you guys use?

I tried, again, to do the update. And I just can't get the DVD_3930 file to burn as an image file. It only wants to burn it as a date file. It also says the D393SAVD.ROM is not recognized as an image file. I've tried it with the ImageBurn and Nero8 trial software. Somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong. What burn software did you guys use?

I haven't done a fw upgrade myself, but I don't think "D393SAVD.ROM" is an image file.
You have to burn the folder (as in the zip file) with file inside the folder to a CDR, as a data disc (in ISO/Joliet format).

The Dutchman is emphatic that the file is burned as straight ISO (no Joliet in any form or fashion). I have no basis for believing otherwise.

The Dutchman is emphatic that the file is burned as straight ISO (no Joliet in any form or fashion). I have no basis for believing otherwise.

You are correct, it should be ISO without Joliet.
If your burning app has a Joliet option, uncheck/avoid it here!

Interesting call I just made to Denon tech support, inquiring about the firmware update for the Realta, he says there are no firmware updates for it and I should not listen to people on AVS forum or others because there is alot of mis-information. He did, however, tell me that I could take my 3930 to the local Denon service center and they would put in the latest firmware for me. He also told me that the reason there is such a delay on dvd's when navigating is that whenever you have chips like the Realtz and such that it takes a second or 2 longer to process the information.

I don't think I got valid information from him after what I am reading here.

My firmware is not even the latest 2 so I will just take it in and have them do the latest anyway.

Interesting call I just made to Denon tech support, inquiring about the firmware update for the Realta, he says there are no firmware updates for it and I should not listen to people on AVS forum or others because there is alot of mis-information. He did, however, tell me that I could take my 3930 to the local Denon service center and they would put in the latest firmware for me. He also told me that the reason there is such a delay on dvd's when navigating is that whenever you have chips like the Realtz and such that it takes a second or 2 longer to process the information.

I don't think I got valid information from him after what I am reading here.

My firmware is not even the latest 2 so I will just take it in and have them do the latest anyway.

I think he is telling the truth by half.

I see your a USA customer,

All Units Regio 2 PAL gets the Realta Update.

UK is rolling out right now for it's uk customers that upgrade.


NTSC Regio does not need Realta Upgrade for the NTSC DVD's.

I tried, again, to do the update. And I just can't get the DVD_3930 file to burn as an image file. It only wants to burn it as a date file. It also says the D393SAVD.ROM is not recognized as an image file. I've tried it with the ImageBurn and Nero8 trial software. Somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong. What burn software did you guys use?

You Must first UNZIP THE File

After That, COPY DVD_3930 Folder with the D393SAVD.ROM on CDR.

BURN ONLY ISO 9660 MODE.

Thats it.

This meens that the CDR got one folder on it and in the folder that rom file.

Please try again.

I tried, again, to do the update. And I just can't get the DVD_3930 file to burn as an image file. It only wants to burn it as a date file. It also says the D393SAVD.ROM is not recognized as an image file. I've tried it with the ImageBurn and Nero8 trial software. Somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong. What burn software did you guys use?

The folder and file you need to burn are Data Files. DO NOT burn them as an image file. Otherwise, follow Dutchman's instructions. Good Luck.

I think he is telling the truth by half.

I see your a USA customer,

All Units Regio 2 PAL gets the Realta Update.

UK is rolling out right now for it's uk customers that upgrade.

NTSC Regio does not need Realta Upgrade for the NTSC DVD's.

I'm in USA - but play many PAL discs on my 3930. Would I need the PAL Realta update? What does it correct?

Thanks everyone! I finally got a proper CD burn, and I just installed the update. Time to play some music!

edit: My 3930 now reads:

BE 8284-8
Make Day 111
DSP 8250
IP 060711

I'm in USA - but play many PAL discs on my 3930. Would I need the PAL Realta update? What does it correct?

Please read back this forum.

Thanks everyone! I finally got a proper CD burn, and I just installed the update. Time to play some music!

edit: My 3930 now reads:

BE 8284-8
Make Day 111
DSP 8250
IP 060711

Good job done,

Thats a good thing to do, i'm away Going to play some music.:)

Please read back this forum.

"In particular by the optimization the following problems were repaired:

- brief arising comb effects (education horizontal black strip) with fast movements (in particular in bright display spaces) with selected PAL pAL-Filmmaterial

- general improvement of the De-Interlacing-performance with selected difficult PAL pAL-Filmmaterial (prevention of the occurrence of line flares on diagonal lines, improvement of the edge smoothing) to to the chip limit"

Kinda hard to understand babblefish translation. But I guess the the two main improvements are; Improved combing and de-interlacing (w/ difficult PAL material).

Can you please answer this question for me?

Which is better in general 2930ci or 3910?

Just got in a new 2930ci. Two issues/problems have arisen. One, it will not play a SACD disc thru D-link. Then, this weekend, I find that it will not play regular "purchased" cd's without skipping. During a 40 minute cd, the player will pause 10-12 times and search for about 5 seconds before starting to play again.
Discussing this with Denon this morning got me the expected result....send it in and let us look at it.

My question to you guys.....is this the most prudent decision? Means I will be out of a dvd player in the theater room for another 4-5 weeks. Or, is there any chance that updating the firmware will fix these issues? The firmware it has now is 8283-9 and I see in prior posts that the newest firmware is ver 8283-c.
Thanks for your help.

Just got in a new 2930ci. Two issues/problems have arisen. One, it will not play a SACD disc thru D-link. Then, this weekend, I find that it will not play regular "purchased" cd's without skipping. During a 40 minute cd, the player will pause 10-12 times and search for about 5 seconds before starting to play again.
Discussing this with Denon this morning got me the expected result....send it in and let us look at it.

My question to you guys.....is this the most prudent decision? Means I will be out of a dvd player in the theater room for another 4-5 weeks. Or, is there any chance that updating the firmware will fix these issues? The firmware it has now is 8283-9 and I see in prior posts that the newest firmware is ver 8283-c.
Thanks for your help.
I think there's a very good chance that a firmware update would help. My '3930CI had similar problems when I first got it, but the succession of firmware updates I've done have fixed things to the point where it now works flawlessly. It certainly couldn't hurt to try that first.

my guess is it won't help. i had similar issues. it turned out to be the optical block went bad on my 3930. It appears to be a common problem on the Denons.

my guess is it won't help. i had similar issues. it turned out to be the optical block went bad on my 3930. It appears to be a common problem on the Denons.

My first unit started misbehaving - skipping and freezing about 1 hour into a movie - after about 11 months, and the dealer replaced it. The new one works great.

But this seems to be a fairly common story. I wondered at the time, and I still wonder, whether it was perhaps just a lens cleaning problem. If it had been out of warranty, I would have tried cleaning it, but since it was in-warranty I didn't want to mess with it - getting to the lens is a non-trivial operation.

I don't know why this unit would be particularly worse than any other. Maybe the huge volumes of heat it produces?

-Reid

Just got in a new 2930ci. ... Discussing this with Denon this morning got me the expected result....send it in and let us look at it. How "new" is "new?" If at all possible, I'd try for an exchange through your dealer before screwing around with Denon's repair service. Even if you bought online, merchandise that is defective on receipt (30-days?) can usually be exchanged. And, in my experience, where I have sent defective equipment for exchanged, it has taken less than 4 to 5 weeks. FWIW.

Can you please answer this question for me?

Which is better in general 2930ci or 3910?

I saw in another thread that you are connecting the player digitally to your AVR-5308ci. That being the case, the 2930ci would probably be the better buy since it has better video processing. The audio digitally transported to your AVR should sound the same across both players, although the 3910 likely has a better analog audio section if you choose to use it.

You should keep in mind that the 2930ci has a poorly implemented 480i output, so you should not output that resolution from the player to your AVR's video processor. I don't think the 3910 has a 480i output at all, so it's a wash in that respect.

The only other caveat is reliability. I'm not sure how reliable the 3910 is, but many posters in this thread have had optical problems with the 2930ci. Mine has been perfect for over a year, but I will not discount the numerous issues that have been reported here.

How "new" is "new?" If at all possible, I'd try for an exchange through your dealer before screwing around with Denon's repair service. Even if you bought online, merchandise that is defective on receipt (30-days?) can usually be exchanged. And, in my experience, where I have sent defective equipment for exchanged, it has taken less than 4 to 5 weeks. FWIW.
Two weeks old new. The problem with exchanging it at the dealer is that Denon IS the dealer. This unit replaced a bad 3910 I had (long, long story I wont bore you with). This 2930ci shipped straight from the California Denon facility.

... The problem with exchanging it at the dealer is that Denon IS the dealer. Bummer :(

Two weeks new :eek: I'd sure give them a call and ship it straight back to Denon for a replacement. A bad replacement unit for a bad unit doesn't work in my book. (was it "B" stock?)

Two weeks new :eek: I'd sure give them a call and ship it straight back to Denon for a replacement. A bad replacement unit for a bad unit doesn't work in my book. (was it "B" stock?)
No, it was replaced with a new 2930ci. So, this unit was bad from the factory. I have it packed up and it will go back tomorrow. I am not real happy that they arent just replacing it with another new one. If I had purchased it from an authorized dealer, isnt that what they would do?

[QUOTE=MSmith83;13694744]I saw in another thread that you are connecting the player digitally to your AVR-5308ci. That being the case, the 2930ci would probably be the better buy since it has better video processing. The audio digitally transported to your AVR should sound the same across both players, although the 3910 likely has a better analog audio section if you choose to use it.

You should keep in mind that the 2930ci has a poorly implemented 480i output, so you should not output that resolution from the player to your AVR's video processor. I don't think the 3910 has a 480i output at all, so it's a wash in that respect.

The only other caveat is reliability. I'm not sure how reliable the 3910 is, but many posters in this thread have had optical problems with the 2930ci. Mine has been perfect for over a year, but I will not discount the numerous issues that have been reported here.[/QUOTE

Thank you for your response. I will take your advance at face value.

Anyone have a warm spot in your heart for Kenwood? Or Best Buy? :rolleyes:

Anyone have a warm spot in your heart for Kenwood? Or Best Buy? :rolleyes:

Yeah, the result of that ought to be interesting. Denon and Marantz have been becoming more and more mainstream over the years.

However, imagine the look on the face of owners of overpriced McIntosh components when the parent company is bought by Best Buy. All of a sudden they'll deem their components as being of much lesser quality, even though the parts used in most current McIntosh gear don't differ much from what is found in mass market products.

Is there any reason to run the 2930 with the HDMI through my Denon 3808 if i don't need to?

imagine the look on the face of owners of overpriced McIntosh components when the parent company is bought by Best Buyso, is this aquisition "official" yet (this is huge if it is)? Last I read they (D&M Holdings) were up for sale.

A comment was made on the latest episode of "Real Time with Bill Maher" in regards to the supposed merging of Circuit City and BlockBuster Video (quote):
"two of the last places anyone goes to anymore, or gives a sh*t about, are now conveniently under the same roof":D

Is there any way to get my 3930ci to output 1080P@24 to my Pioneer pro 150fd?

Thanks.

so, is this aquisition "official" yet (this is huge if it is)? Last I read they (D&M Holdings) were up for sale.

A comment was made on the latest episode of "Real Time with Bill Maher" in regards to the supposed merging of Circuit City and BlockBuster Video (quote):
"two of the last places anyone goes to anymore, or gives a sh*t about, are now conveniently under the same roof":D

As far as I know, it's still in the bidding process.

I saw that "New Rule" segment on Bill Maher. That was good stuff. :)

Is there any way to get my 3930ci to output 1080P@24 to my Pioneer pro 150fd?

Thanks.

No, the Denon 2930/3930 players do not output video at 1080/24p.

No, the Denon 2930/3930 players do not output video at 1080/24p.

They can output to 1080p50 or 1080p60, is that correct?

They can output to 1080p50 or 1080p60, is that correct?

Correct.

I cracked open my Denon 2930 today, and I took note of some of the parts used. The player uses an AKM AK4101AVQ for its digital audio transmitter, an Altera MAXII for a CPLD, and a Texas Instruments TMS320D708E for its DSP. As known, it uses four Burr-Brown 1791A chips for its audio DAC section.

I took some pics even though some of the inside can be seen on Denon’s site.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1989/img0465md3.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0465md3.jpg)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2677/img0468bq0.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0468bq0.jpg)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5902/img0466ja7.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0466ja7.jpg)

Is that good stuff?{i know BB is}

Nice photos, can I ask why you opened it?

Is that good stuff?{i know BB is}

The chosen parts definitely get the job done. As we know, Denon did a good job with the front-end and integrating their proprietary technologies/algorithms. I particularly like how well they separated the power, analog audio, and digital boards.

Nice photos, can I ask why you opened it?

I eventually open anything I buy just out of the curiosity of what parts manufacturers pick for their installations.

I eventually open anything I buy just out of the curiosity of what parts manufacturers pick for their installations.

:) Of course, I thought you might say something like that.

Anyone know how many of these parts are also in the DVD 3930CI?

Anyone know how many of these parts are also in the DVD 3930CI?at least equal or better parts quality usage per respective section:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/dvd-players/denon-dvd-3930ci/comparison-of-products-build-quality

Interesting info on modifying DVD-3930CI:
http://www.hotrodaudiomods.com/dvdedvd3930ci.html

That is interesting. But I personally would not want to invest more $ into my 3930. But I'm sure it would be well worth it to audiophiles (and those using analog outs). Wonder if this company will be offering mods for the 3800 BD player in the near future?

Wonder if this company will be offering mods for the 3800 BD player in the near future?funny you ask, I was reading a post, or article, somewhere (can't remember where) and a person mentioned that he had recently communicated with this company ("Hot Rod Audio Mods") and that they were already checking-out (analyzing) the DVD-3800BDCI unit for modding and, moreover, that they will be performing ugrades in the near future.

I'm thinking, now that I'm (happily) using the DVD-3800BDCI for Blu-ray, SD-DVD and CD, maybe I should have the DVD-3930CI modded (stage-2). I'm really curious how much better it could sound. Of course I'm a little paranoid of potential damage, but these guy's (at Hot Rod Audio Mods) seem to be very experienced.

One significant fact Hot Rod Audio Mods point-out, that I always pondered myself, is that (quote): "the DVD-3930CI player (as well as the 2910, and 5910) has a separate 2-channel output. These outputs contain the audiophile circuit path behind them." It has been posted here that the 2ch OUT's were exactly equal to the FL and FR channels of the 5.1ch OUT's, I did'nt think they were. Although when playing 2-channel sources through both paths it may be hard to discern an audible difference.

Wonder if this company will be offering mods for the 3800 BD player in the near future?actually this is where I read about your inquery:
After hearing Denon's older 3910 DVD player modified by HOTROD Audio mod's, It's quite possible I'll be buying this BD player very soon.
I have e-mailed them about this player, and they are going to be mod'ing it.
The stock player isn't bad, but it's a whole new world when your hear your CD's played through a modified version.

One significant fact Hot Rod Audio Mods point-out, that I always pondered myself, is that (quote): "the DVD-3930CI player (as well as the 2910, and 5910) has a separate 2-channel output. These outputs contain the audiophile circuit path behind them." It has been posted here that the 2ch OUT's were exactly equal to the FL and FR channels of the 5.1ch OUT's, I did'nt think they were. Although when playing 2-channel sources through both paths it may be hard to discern an audible difference.

The 5.1 and 2-channel analog outputs are separate, and have a slightly different DAC configuration on the 3930ci. With the 3930ci, the 5.1 analog outputs are driven by three Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC chips. For the 2-channel analog output, there are two separate 1796 chips where each one is dedicated to a single channel for dual-differential. Therefore, the 3930ci has a total of five 1796 chips.

The 2930ci uses just four 1791A chips, where the 2-channel analog output is given just one chip.

I'm thinking, now that I'm (happily) using the DVD-3800BDCI for Blu-ray, SD-DVD and CD, maybe I should have the DVD-3930CI modded (stage-2). I'm really curious how much better it could sound.
Just curious...if you're using the DVD 3800BDCI for everything now, which I see as the equivalent of the '3930CI in every way except the trade-offs of Blu-Ray for DVD-A and SACD music, why would you want to do the mod? Unless, of course, you're hoping to get improvement with those latter two formats?

I'm thinking, now that I'm (happily) using the DVD-3800BDCI for Blu-ray, SD-DVD and CD, maybe I should have the DVD-3930CI modded (stage-2). I'm really curious how much better it could sound. Of course I'm a little paranoid of potential damage, but these guy's (at Hot Rod Audio Mods) seem to be very experienced.


I wouldn't bother with the mod. Just like with almost any other online mod service, there are some highly dubious claims being made. They do seem to be the most truthful of the bunch, however. If something like a high quality master clock is important to you, then there are other brands of universal players available that use parts with completely disclosed specifications. If you really like the sound of the 3930ci as it is, then it should be left alone. It would perhaps be wiser to use the money on improving another aspect of your listening room.

... there are some highly dubious claims being made...

I agree. Personally, I like the "highly recommended" $200 power cord. Just think of the improvements you would get if you could rewire your whole house. Or city. Or nationwide power grid. The mind boggles. :p

-Reid

I agree. Personally, I like the "highly recommended" $200 power cord. Just think of the improvements you would get if you could rewire your whole house. Or city. Or nationwide power grid. The mind boggles. :p

-Reid

Personally when I saw that list of upgrades I just sat there amazed. How much better can this wonderful unit be? Not much in my eyes (and ears). I'd rather spend the money on a Denon blu-ray player or better projector. DVD can only be so good, same with DVD A and SACD and CD playback. To me, that's just throwing away money. The power chord was the final straw. Quite possibly, there could be some truth to improvements they are talking about and "to each his own", I have no idea. But for me, I love my 3930 100% and so I couldn't love it anymore than that.

Just curious...if you're using the DVD 3800BDCI for everything now, which I see as the equivalent of the '3930CI in every way except the trade-offs of Blu-Ray for DVD-A and SACD music, why would you want to do the mod? Unless, of course, you're hoping to get improvement with those latter two formats?to (hopefully) obtain better 2ch analog performance primarily.

It has 2ch outputs, right? I thought they were analog.

to (hopefully) obtain better 2ch analog performance primarily.

I got my 3930Ci modded by Matt Anker of SACDMods.com (before this I had Matt do my 3910). There is definitely an improvement in the sound quality, heck.... just getting rid of 8 opamps and electrolytic caps in the signal path is significant! This mod actually uses a Zapfilter output stage which is fully discrete, with no caps in the signal path.

Now you do need a somewhat good system to hear these improvement on,
but if youre an audiophile, you probably already have that covered.

I got my 3930Ci modded by Matt Anker of SACDMods.com (before this I had Matt do my 3910). There is definitely an improvement in the sound quality, heck.... just getting rid of 8 opamps and electrolytic caps in the signal path is significant! This mod actually uses a Zapfilter output stage which is fully discrete, with no caps in the signal path.
thanks for your input, interesting details Matt provides on his web-site:
http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD3930.htm

Personally when I saw that list of upgrades I just sat there amazed. How much better can this wonderful unit be?

FYI, there was an interesting article published a while back that dealt with a similar situation. See "Keiserens nye Klæder", published in 1837, by Hans Christian Andersen. Wikipedia has an excellent synopsis of the article, in case you haven't seen it:
An emperor who cares too much about clothes hires two swindlers who promise him the finest suit of clothes from the most beautiful cloth. This cloth, they tell him, is invisible to anyone who was either stupid or not fit for his position. The Emperor is nervous about not being able to see the cloth himself so he sends his ministers to view it. They see nothing yet praise the cloth. When the swindlers report a suit of clothes has been fashioned, the Emperor allows himself to be dressed in their creation for a procession through town. During the course of the procession, a small child cries out, "But he has nothing on!" The crowd realizes the child is telling the truth and begins laughing. The Emperor, however, holds his head high and continues the procession.

With tongue firmly in-cheek, and apparently stupid (and I'm not saying that anyone is a swinder!!),
-Reid

They hear no sound improvement yet praise and hold their head high


Personally when I saw that list of upgrades I just sat there amazed. How much better can this wonderful unit be?well, I know a while back (on this thread) there was some discussion on modding the DVD-3930CI, these were mostly related to just switching the stock Burr Brown DAC's for higher-end (more expensive) Burr Brown part No.'s, and they were seeing some immediate significant improvements in sound-characteristics.

Many on the DVD-3800BDCI thread, who also own the DVD-3930CI, are claiming improved sound-quality for 2-channel music (as a CD player). I believe this would be the result of the DVD-3800BDCI having higher-end Burr Brown DAC's than the DVD-3930CI. I have both unit's and it is a close call for CD performance, but I'd have to say the DVD-3800BDCI sounds [slightly] better.

thanks for your input, interesting details Matt provides on his web-site:
http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD3930.htm

The last picture on that page shows a modified unit with balanced outputs, that is actually my 3930CI !

As you can see on Matt's website, he has no magical formulas/parts which go unnamed, but lays down for you exactly what
is going into your unit. He only mods areas that produce real improvements.

Lots of happy customers.

Many on the DVD-3800BDCI thread, who also own the DVD-3930CI, are claiming improved sound-quality for 2-channel music (as a CD player). I believe this would be the result of the DVD-3800BDCI having higher-end Burr Brown DAC's than the DVD-3930CI. I have both unit's and it is a close call for CD performance, but I'd have to say the DVD-3800BDCI sounds [slightly] better.

The 3800 and 3930ci use the same Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DACs. However, you have to keep in mind that the DACs themselves are only one part of the equation.

The 3800 and 3930ci use the same Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DACsyeah, you are correct, I just verified this on their respective Denon product sheets:
http://www.usa.denon.com/DVD-3800BDCILit_0324.pdf
http://www.usa.denon.com/DVD-3930CILit.pdf


However, you have to keep in mind that the DACs themselves are only one part of the equation.yeah I know. The output Op-amp's types and configuration; power-supply cap's, schottky diodes, etc.,...

The last picture on that page shows a modified unit with balanced outputs, that is actually my 3930CI.that's funny! he actually installed balanced outputs/connections?


As you can see on Matt's website, he has no magical formulas/parts which go unnamed, but lays down for you exactly what is going into your unit. He only mods areas that produce real improvementsyeah, seems to be a sharp, young, electrical engineer (EE), and he's just graduating from Ohio Stae University. So he's basically doing this as a student (impressive). Also states that he just accepted a full-time position at Cessna Aircraft Inc., Kansas, so wonder if he'll continue with this side job?:)

thanks for your input, interesting details Matt provides on his web-site:
http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD3930.htm

Impressive. Denon should hire Matt to further refine their products:) (be interesting to hear what Denon engineers think of these mods)

Impressive. Denon should hire Matt to further refine their products:) (be interesting to hear what Denon engineers think of these mods)

Good question - I wish they hung around this thread. Having been in the electronics industry for the past 27 years, I can offer a guess as to what they would say: the benefit doesn't justify the cost for their "typical" customer.

For a mass market high-end product like the 3930CI, whats important is to be better than your competition at a realistic price (which the stock 3930CI clearly is, IMHO). In fact, this is a much harder engineering problem than just designing the "ultimate" audio/videophile product. Adding $1100US or more to the price of a standard 3930CI would very possibly make it an unviable product (I know I wouldn't have spent $2600 on it).

Just my opinion.

-Reid

I e-mailed Hot Rod Audio Mod's in regards to their DVD-3930CI implementation and they replied back this morning (quote):
"Dave we have had best results with basic mods on this unit.. Opamps namely.. this mod will not affect operation of any of the formats at all.. No "sacrificing" in other words.. I think our web guy put the 3910 mods on the 3930 page..I'll have it fixed..

Thanks
Mike Powell"


My question to them was (quote):
"I have a year-old Denon DVD-3930CI unit, I'm considering having your stage-2 modifications implemented.

I use this unit, primarily, for CD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD, all via-analog output's. Also use it for SD DVD's via-HDMI (video & audio), as it is a first-rate up-scaling DVD player.

How would stage-2 upgrades effect 5.1ch OUT's for SACD and DVD-A operation, since you're sacrificing the two (FL & FR) DAC's in favor of the 2ch OUT audiophile path? Will I still have optimized 5.1ch output for multi-channel music sources? I'm little confused here.

Appreciate your input"

Well I think Denon does pay attention to what is happening in the high end and mod arenas. This is probably why the stereo outputs of the 3930 employ dual differential dacs, while they did not in the 3910. This was a mod that APL was doing on the the 3910 for a while, and other high end players have been using multiple DACs per channel for a while now.

But as you said, there is the ever pressing price point they must consider, and make trade-offs accordingly.

Good question - I wish they hung around this thread. Having been in the electronics industry for the past 27 years, I can offer a guess as to what they would say: the benefit doesn't justify the cost for their "typical" customer.

For a mass market high-end product like the 3930CI, whats important is to be better than your competition at a realistic price (which the stock 3930CI clearly is, IMHO). In fact, this is a much harder engineering problem than just designing the "ultimate" audio/videophile product. Adding $1100US or more to the price of a standard 3930CI would very possibly make it an unviable product (I know I wouldn't have spent $2600 on it).

Just my opinion.

-Reid

My understanding is he will continue with the mod business.

Adding $1100US or more to the price of a standard 3930CI would very possibly make it an unviable product (I know I wouldn't have spent $2600 on it).

But if that price gets you sound quality that rivals and beats production units costing $5k, then its a bargain. It all depends on what is improtant to you, and what you would spend to get it.

[QUOTE=WestCoastD;13767478]that's funny! he actually installed balanced outputs/connections?

QUOTE]

yes, the output stage he installs is a fully balanced stage, taking the balanced signals straight off the DACs, without summing them.

I have a balanced headphone amp/rig, so balanced outputs was improtant to me, not to mention the enhanced sound quality that a balanced solution brings.

But if that price gets you sound quality that rivals and beats production units costing $5k, then its a bargain. It all depends on what is improtant to you, and what you would spend to get it.

Perhaps it is a bargain, but to fewer people. This is classic microeconomics - the higher the price, the fewer you sell. Denon, at least, isn't in business to make a few audiophiles happy - they're in it to make money, and their challenge is to find the "sweet spot" of a market, and build something that matches it in quality and price. And this is exactly why modders (in any industry) can have a decent business upgrading the units for the relatively few people who are willing to pay.

I think a valid point could be made, though, that if Denon designed the mods in themselves at the factory, in a separate "upgraded" version, they could do it for substantially less than the price a modder would have to charge. Honestly, the component costs deltas are pretty minor.

If they (Denon) thought they could make a good ROI at it, I suspect they would do it. But more products equates to more inventory, more manufacturing costs, diluted advertising funds, more bricks and mortar shelf space, potential for market confusion, more sales training costs, documentation costs, product support costs, etc. If the new target market isn't big enough, it won't happen. But I think its generally the wrong conclusion that somehow they don't know how (not that anyone is saying that).

And besides, they *do* offer an upgrade: the 5910! :o

-Reid

if Denon designed the mods in themselves at the factory, in a separate "upgraded" version, they could do it for substantially less than the price a modder would have to charge. Honestly, the component costs deltas are pretty minor.exactly right. Actually Denon could integrate any of these so-called "mods" for very cheap in their production units. It's the development cost that's expensive. But the parts are cheap at their (Denon's) amortized cost.

exactly right. Actually Denon could integrate any of these so-called "mods" for very cheap in their production units. It's the development cost that's expensive. But the parts are cheap at their (Denon's) amortized cost.

True!!

More than likely, Denon's mid-fi customer base does not have the equipment or money to take advantage of the higher sound quality, so why would Denon bother.

The 5910 is not much of a step-up sound wise, still has the same mediocre design output stage as the 3930, but uses the slightly better 1792 DACs .

I recently posted on this thread about my purchase of a 2930ci from e-bay.Everything has been fine with the unit.The first SACD I tried playing had no sound but after looking through my 3808ci manual I discovered I had to change the input to "Denon Link".The sound is awesome !!.I had one strange thing happen with the player though and would like to ask if anyone had a similar problem with their 2930.I have a 20 bit digitally remastered Miles Davis CD "Sketches of Spain" which would not play on the player and made an odd noise like fluttering in the player.I tried the CD on my cheap Sony up-convert player and it played fine.I have other 20 bit digitally remastered CD's and tried them in the 2930 and they all worked fine.All the SACD's I have also played fine.What is the deal with this one CD ??:confused:

I have a 20 bit digitally remastered Miles Davis CD "Sketches of Spain" which would not play on the player and made an odd noise like fluttering in the player. What is the deal with this one CD ?hard to say what's going on. Sounds like the DVD-2930 is having difficulty reading the CD layer on that particular disc for some reason.

I recently posted on this thread about my purchase of a 2930ci from e-bay.Everything has been fine with the unit.The first SACD I tried playing had no sound but after looking through my 3808ci manual I discovered I had to change the input to "Denon Link".The sound is awesome !!.I had one strange thing happen with the player though and would like to ask if anyone had a similar problem with their 2930.I have a 20 bit digitally remastered Miles Davis CD "Sketches of Spain" which would not play on the player and made an odd noise like fluttering in the player.I tried the CD on my cheap Sony up-convert player and it played fine.I have other 20 bit digitally remastered CD's and tried them in the 2930 and they all worked fine.All the SACD's I have also played fine.What is the deal with this one CD ??:confused:
Do not know about the 2930 but on the 3930 you need to set the player to audio mode vs. video mode. I had to do this to play Pink Floyd Pulse at the higher bit rate track. Just a guess (page 26 of the 3930 manual). I was told this is the preferred mode anyway when using DLink3 for audio and HDMI for video (assuming this is your connection since you have a 3808).

Is it possible the CD is a Dual Disc?

Not sure if SoS came out in that format but I know Kind of Blue did.

Is it possible the CD is a Dual Disc?

Not sure if SoS came out in that format but I know Kind of Blue did.

Do not know about the 2930 but on the 3930 you need to set the player to audio mode vs. video mode. I had to do this to play Pink Floyd Pulse at the higher bit rate track. Just a guess (page 26 of the 3930 manual). I was told this is the preferred mode anyway when using DLink3 for audio and HDMI for video (assuming this is your connection since you have a 3808).
I just tried the audio/video mode(it was on video).This did not work.I guess it is just that one CD does not agree with the 2930.And no it is not a dual layer hybrid CD.I have Bitches Brew also 20 bit remaster plays exellent on the player.And all of my hybrids play great too.I have Kind of Blue on SACD also and I noticed in multi channel mode a strange hiss comes out of the speakers on some high frequency notes.I hear the Japanese import SACD is better quality.Anyway,I guess I will have to play Sketches of Spain on the Sony:rolleyes:

The 5910 is not much of a step-up sound wise, still has the same mediocre design output stage as the 3930, but uses the slightly better 1792 DACs .

Lest you forget, the 5910 predates the 3930 by a year, so it would be the 3930 that has thet same output stage as the 5910, with the use of slightly cheaper DACs to meet its price point.

Lest you forget, the 5910 predates the 3930 by a year, so it would be the 3930 that has thet same output stage as the 5910, with the use of slightly cheaper DACs to meet its price point.

Agreed.

I was answering an earlier post that inicated the 5910 should have much better sound quality than the 3930.

The European Denon site has posted a new firmware version to their site for the 2930: 8283-C

I just installed it and get the following info after the update:
BE 8283-C
Make Day 111
DSP 8250

This firmware version claims to include the following fixes:
Improvement of the regulary playing performance (random mode)
the playback of curving Disc is difficult occasionally.

Wish I knew what a curving Disc was...

Have not had much time to play with it, so not much to report about performance after the update. I can say that it left the region hack in tact.

Picked up a 5308 today to go with my 3930. I'm not a very big person and had to wrestle it up the stairs to my AV room. As has been stated before, it is a beast.

I hooked it up to my Denon 3930 and Sony CD player and played some tunes. The sound is awesome. I then played the Roy Orbison Black and White DVD. The sound and picture quality are fantastic.

Then I tried to play some of my newly purchased SACD disks using Denon Link. No luck. I have messed something up because I can't even see the 3930 menu on the TV anymore. I've tried everything I can think of with no luck. I believe the problem is in my 3930 setup somewhere, but I can't get to the menu to try some fixes. I even tried a direct HDMI connection to my TV with no luck with a DVD or SACD.

Any ideas??? All help appreciated...

:confused:

the playback of curving Disc is difficult occasionally.

Wish I knew what a curving Disc was...



Maybe means "warped" disc ...?

Picked up a 5308 today to go with my 3930. I'm not a very big person and had to wrestle it up the stairs to my AV room. As has been stated before, it is a beast.

I hooked it up to my Denon 3930 and Sony CD player and played some tunes. The sound is awesome. I then played the Roy Orbison Black and White DVD. The sound and picture quality are fantastic.

Then I tried to play some of my newly purchased SACD disks using Denon Link. No luck. I have messed something up because I can't even see the 3930 menu on the TV anymore. I've tried everything I can think of with no luck. I believe the problem is in my 3930 setup somewhere, but I can't get to the menu to try some fixes. I even tried a direct HDMI connection to my TV with no luck with a DVD or SACD.

Any ideas??? All help appreciated...

:confused:

You may want to try connecting the 3930 to your TV through the S-video link. The S-video should produce an output regardless of any configuration settings. It's just a thought.

Picked up a 5308 today to go with my 3930. I'm not a very big person and had to wrestle it up the stairs to my AV room. As has been stated before, it is a beast.

I hooked it up to my Denon 3930 and Sony CD player and played some tunes. The sound is awesome. I then played the Roy Orbison Black and White DVD. The sound and picture quality are fantastic.

Then I tried to play some of my newly purchased SACD disks using Denon Link. No luck. I have messed something up because I can't even see the 3930 menu on the TV anymore. I've tried everything I can think of with no luck. I believe the problem is in my 3930 setup somewhere, but I can't get to the menu to try some fixes. I even tried a direct HDMI connection to my TV with no luck with a DVD or SACD.

Any ideas??? All help appreciated...

:confused:

Assuming your AVR and display are set properly, and all cables are good and secure...

1. Press dimmer button several times to make sure you can see from the 3930's display.
Press the "pure direct -- select" button on your 3930 remote several times to make sure your 3930 is in normal mode.

2. If you still get no picture,use your "HDMI select" button top left of remote to set the video mode properly

3. If still nothing, try reinitializing your 3930 unit (posts in this thread tell you how). Also getting the latest firmware would be a good idea at some point.

4. If using Denon Link, make sure it is turned on in the setup, and set to Denon Link 3.

The European Denon site has posted a new firmware version to their site for the 2930: 8283-C...
Tried my US serial and would not take. Any way for me to get this update?

Hi there!

I just purchased my 2930 a few days ago. That thing is still pretty expensive here in Germany :( ...but I am so happy with it.

Regarding the firmware: When I translate the German text it means: The playback of non standard Discs was improved.

... maybe not much clearer ;)

Regarding the firmware: When I translate the German text it means: The playback of non standard Discs was improved.

... maybe not much clearer ;)

Thanks for the clarification Stellvertreter :)

Tried my US serial and would not take. Any way for me to get this update?
I also have a US serial number but found that only if I set my unit color as Silver (even though mine is actually Black) could I access the page.
If that does not work for you, let us know.

I also have a US serial number but found that only if I set my unit color as Silver (even though mine is actually Black) could I access the page.
If that does not work for you, let us know.

Im trying this site, http://firmware.denon-online.eu/index.php
and it doesnt seem to work selecting either silver or black with my 2390CI's serial. INteresting that yours did work though.

here is the latest firmware for the 2930..BE 8283-C


GEN8283C_111_DVD2930CI_2930

Works on both PAL and NTSC systems


Installation??.....use the instructions from the previous post

enjoy :)

link#1
http://rapidshare.de/files/39381011/GEN8283C_111_DVD2930CI_2930.zip.html

link#2
http://rapidshare.de/files/39381044/GEN8283C_111_DVD2930CI_2930.zip.html

link#3
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VIS7087L

My DVD-3930CI, which has been functioning fairly stable now for the last (maybe) three months, is now beginning to exhibit periodic playback errors/failures, primarily, for multi-channel SACD's, DVD-A's lately. It will play a particular title maybe 50% to 70% part-way through, then it will begin to "skip" and, sometimes, eventually just stop playing and "hang". I have to enable the small power button and recycle power to "re-set" things. I've only been usig this player for SACD and DVD-A disc's. I've been playing CD's on my new DVD-3800BDCI.

If this behavior continues I will send it back to Denon (again).

:(Bummer:(

Picked up a 5308 today to go with my 3930. I'm not a very big person and had to wrestle it up the stairs to my AV room. As has been stated before, it is a beast.

I hooked it up to my Denon 3930 and Sony CD player and played some tunes. The sound is awesome. I then played the Roy Orbison Black and White DVD. The sound and picture quality are fantastic.

Then I tried to play some of my newly purchased SACD disks using Denon Link. No luck. I have messed something up because I can't even see the 3930 menu on the TV anymore. I've tried everything I can think of with no luck. I believe the problem is in my 3930 setup somewhere, but I can't get to the menu to try some fixes. I even tried a direct HDMI connection to my TV with no luck with a DVD or SACD.

Any ideas??? All help appreciated...

:confused:
See DigiPete's instructions, but my guess is that you don't have an HDMI output selected, which can be done right on the remote. For some reason, out of the box, the '3930 defaults to no HDMI.

My DVD-3930CI, which has been functioning fairly stable now for the last (maybe) three months, is now beginning to exhibit periodic playback errors/failures, primarily, for multi-channel SACD's, DVD-A's lately. It will play a particular title maybe 50% to 70% part-way through, then it will begin to "skip" and, sometimes, eventually just stop playing and "hang". I have to enable the small power button and recycle power to "re-set" things.

Yeah, bummer. This is exactly the same behavior I had with DVD's. It would consistently freeze up approximately 1 hour into the movie. Since it was still under warranty, I never did bother to find out the root cause - the dealer just replaced it (with another 1-year warranty!!).

I have to wonder, though, whether this is a design flaw, or just an accumulation of dirt over time that screws up the optics or drive. If this happens again, out of warranty, I'll probably crack the box and try to clean it.

-Reid

I have to wonder, though, whether this is a design flaw, or just an accumulation of dirt over time that screws up the optics or driveyeah, I wonder myself. I wonder if it may be a "thermal" issue? Moreover, I'm thinking there may be some "mis-alignment" going on with the optics preventing proper reading of SACD/DVD-A track or layer after a certain amount of playing time?

Also, as far as dirt/dust, I'm really compulsive about wiping off excess dust at least once a week to minimize foriegn matter entering player.

Dave:
How long do you run your player at one sitting?
I wonder if it's a thermal issue too. My 3930 runs pretty darn warm - and I don't give it much room to breathe on top (1") - so I limit my maximum run time to approx 2 hours (or a little more for longer films). Then I let it fully cool down before using it again. So far no problem what-so-ever w/ my player (knock on wood). Some day (sooner than later) I should think about adding some type of cooling fan.

...I wonder if it's a thermal issue too....

I wondered this too. Its certainly the hottest thing in my rack. But it consistently failed about 1 hour into the DVD, and if I ejected the disk and then resumed the movie from where it froze, it almost always finished the movie without incident, including extras. (Note the "almost" part).

So, being a hopeless engineer :o, I tried a little experiment: I watched two movies in a row. Yes, it was horribly painful... and I actually did this several times. And each time, the second DVD failed the same way as the first.

That doesn't rule out heat, but its interesting. I recently had another thought: could it be static electricity buildup? Spin a plastic disk at high RPM for an hour, and you can certainly build up a pretty good charge, attracting dust to critical components, or occasionally discharging. But since every DVD player would have to deal with this problem - you would think that Denon would know how to deal with that if it were the problem.

I also thought it might be a layer change problem, which would explain the timing of the problem. But this is supposed to be one of the best layer-change players on the market.

At any rate, my new unit is flawless, and IIRC, my original unit froze up from day 1 - although it got significantly worse over time. I think I was more forgiving of quirks (if you want to call freezing a quirk) early on, since I was so blown away by the sound and video performance of this unit.

I sincerely wish someone from Denon would contribute some thoughts to this thread. They have the opportunity to create some serious good will among their customers.

-Reid

I think the 3930s have a reliability problem with the optical block assembly. unfortunately, the only way to fix it is to have it replaced by Denon. Anyway, that is what happened to my 3930 the last time it went up for repairs.

How long do you run your player at one sitting?yeah, I typically operate it for approx. 2hrs at a time, sometimes 3 or 4hrs on weekends. I have approx .750in clearance on top (a glass shelf above), although my rack is wide-open on all sides. But it does get very warm at times.

here is the latest firmware for the 2930..BE 8283-C...

Thanks, worked like a charm. Had a couple of dvds that would not play, they are now. You have to be impressed by Denon still releasing updates for this player. Way to go!

I just bought a used 3930 outputting at 1080p. It happened a couple of times video dropout for a about 1 second with audio still intact then the video comes back. Now I am wondering if the 10m hdmi cable I am using is causing this. I used to connect my PS3 with this cable and I encountered dropout with the ps3 like 2 times throughout 1 year of usage. Should I be changing the cable or is it a problem with the denon? BTW the denon have been upgraded to the latest firmware.

What brand cable are you using?

I've used a 13m (40 feet) monoprice.com HDMI cable w/ my 3930 for over a year now w/ nary a dropout or handshake issue.

I am using a taiwanese hdmi cable. The 3930 connects via a 2m hdmi cable to my yamaha v1700, then a 10m hdmi cable to my jvc rs1. For now, i removed the 2m cable and connect direct to the jvc via the 10m. will monitor again and see if the cable is causing the dropout.

I wonder if it's a thermal issue to
interesting, today I successfully played a number or SACD and DVD-A titles on my DVD-3930CI (maybe 3 or 4 different titles), at which point I loaded another title ("A Love Affair- The Music Of Ivan Lins") and it would'nt load the SACD layer, only the CD layer. After multiple attempts to re-load this title it still would fail to read the SACD layer. So I powered-OFF the unit. This was during the fairly warm/hot day (outside), it was beggining to heat-up inside. So I came back later tonight, powered-ON unit, now it reads and successfully plays the SACD layer, no problem. Maybe heat is the problem?

Never had a player do anything different because of heat. They just don't get very warm and the outside heat never has been a problem.

I do think players get pretty warm (as do amps/preamps/projectors). And moreso in the Summer (it's presently 100 here in So Cal). When you remove the disc after several hours of play - the disc itself is quite warm to the touch. Not so w/ my BD player that uses a small boxer fan on it's back panel. Anyway - hard to say.

Thinking back - I once had an amplifier that required the use of fans in the Summer - but not in the Winter. And my previous projector of 3 years ago (Panasonic) - would always run it's fan at a higher speed in the Summer - even though I have a dedicated A/C unit for my Home Theater.

Bottom line - it's been my experience (over the years) that heat can cause strange things to happen to electronics. And when you remove that heat - they are always happier:)

it's been my experience (over the years) that heat can cause strange things to happen to electronics. And when you remove that heat - they are always happieryeah, you're right, [heat] is electronic's worst enemy. And, yes, this Denon unit (DVD-3930CI) gets exceptionally warm in normal moderate temperatures (the disc's come out fairly warm), even moreso when it's 100 degrees outside (as it is right now in So Cal).

All the heat is being generated by the Realta processor. Put your hand over it and it's real hot...

All the heat is being generated by the Realta processor. Put your hand over it and it's real hot...I know, when I touch the left-side panel (when looking from the front) it's very warm, or "hot".

Same for my Onkyo 885 pre/pro. The left side of the unit where the Reon is located is very hot.

No new posts in the last 10 days - gotta be a record:eek:!

I'm still a happy camper playing lots of SD DVD's on my 3930 (almost one-a-day) w/ never a glitch - and am always extremely impressed w/ the image and sound quality :)

My DVD-2930/AVR-4306 combination using Denon Link continues to work without a single problem. I recently updated the firmware on the 2930, but noticed no real changes.

I recently put together a 2-channel "music room" just for Red Book CDs, and I bought a Benchmark DAC1 for the center of it. The fact that the Denon AVR-4306 produces just as pleasing of a sound to me as the Benchmark furthers my appreciation for the sound quality of Denon's products.

No new posts in the last 10 days - gotta be a record:eek:!

I'm still a happy camper playing lots of SD DVD's on my 3930 (almost one-a-day) w/ never a glitch - and am always extremely impressed w/ the image and sound quality :)

Me too.

Use it more for Hi-Rez audio. Suprisingly, maybe only 2 DVDs a month right now. Seems like a waste, eh?

NO problems (and I hope I didn't just jinx myself!)

Use it more for Hi-Rez audiolikewise, I hardly use it at all (lately) for SD-DVD's. I've been using my DVD-3800BDCI for BD and SD-DVD titles, also for redbook CD's.

I hardly watch any SD DVDs either, but it's partly because I'm waiting for Gefen's Realta-based video processor to use with my Oppo 980 (my DVDO VP30 had major reliability issues). My extensive Blu-ray viewing also takes part in this. Despite what some say, Blu-ray is really getting some quality content.

My extensive Blu-ray viewing also takes part in thiswhat are you using for Blu-ray player?

what are you using for Blu-ray player?

I'm currently using a PlayStation 3. I often considered getting a standalone Blu-ray player, but the PS3 does everything I need it to do and then some. I particularly like how it can decode all of the new audio codecs for PCM output over HDMI without any problems. Its lightning fast operation and stability is also greatly appreciated. I'm still shocked at how well this game console handles Blu-ray playback.

That being said, I will probably get the upcoming Pioneer BDP-51FD when it gets the promised DTS-HD MA decoding update. While Denon's 3800 seems to be great, it doesn't look like that they'll be offering any promising lower-cost Blu-ray players in the near future.

While Denon's 3800 seems to be great, it doesn't look like that they'll be offering any promising lower-cost Blu-ray players in the near future.yeah, I'm very happy with the DVD-3800BDCI so far, beautiful BD and SD-DVD picture-quality, combined with excellent audio for, both, CD and HD sound-track playback capability (on-board decoding via-HDMI/LPCM). Although it is extremely high-priced.

The up-coming DVD-1800BD sounds like it will be a decent BD/SD-DVD player, combined with good CD playback quality, however it has no on-board decoding for HD sound-tracks. Only really new feature I can see is "Deep Color". Otherwise I think, typical Denon- "over-priced" ($799.95). Especially when you can get the up-coming Pioneer Elite (high-end) player for the same price.

anyone here compare their 2930 or 3930 to the oppo 983?

Anyone experienced this problem with 3930?
The following problems occur only a few minutes after I switch the unit ON.
Instead of the picture, there are blinking rectangles all over the screen.Sometimes even the stationary pink stripes.Sometimes even no picture on the "S" output.
I tried to solve it by switching it off by using STANDBY button,(does not help),then switching it off at the front button (does not help), then unplug it from the power supply (used to help sometimes, but not anymore).
I have been wrestling with 3930 for months This machine's reliability is awful.
I even bought expensive surge protector and mains conditioner (Monster cable) in the vain hope that it might help, but it did not.
I never experienced any similar problems with any electronic device.
Please advise.:mad:

Anyone experienced this problem with 3930?
The following problems occur only a few minutes after I switch the unit ON.
Instead of the picture, there are blinking rectangles all over the screen.Sometimes even the stationary pink stripes.Sometimes even no picture on the "S" output.

Definitely sounds like it needs repair. :(

After I switch the unit ON, instead of the picture, there are blinking rectangles all over the screen.Does this behavior occur using an HDMI connection? Can you get a (normal) picture using HDMI?

Does this behavior occur using an HDMI connection? Can you get a (normal) picture using HDMI?

Yes. Even when HDMI output was creating problems,S output worked.Now neither of them work even though DVD spins (no picture at all),and I also do not have the sound coming out from CD's even though the CD spins.(?!)
I just discovered that my DSP number has changed to 00.00 and my IP number had also changed to 0000000.:mad:
Since I already have the latest Denon firmware, I tried to reinstall it by following Dutchman's reccomendations.Still, both numbers (DSP and IP) are the same.Definitely something very wrong has happened,and how is a mystery.
From my 4-month experience with 3930,I can only conclude that this machine was bad from the vary beginning, and (unfortunately) not only that-it was actually getting worse.(?!)

good luck... my 3930 crapped out twice already and is one its third issue...

I have had my 3930 for 18 months and have not had any problems with it. Works like a charm. I am a very happy owner. ;-)

I've had mine for about 20 months and have had no issues since installing the second or third of the series of firmware updates since then. I've installed all of them, right up to the current Version 8, but it was the first few that really fixed the noticeable problems.

I'm totally disgusted with Denon! My 2930ci suffers from the one hour into the movie freeze up feature. I'm even more disgusted with myself for buying from an unauthorized dealer. :eek: I figured I'd take the lower price and count on Denon reliability. So much for Denon reliability ... :mad:

I'm still a happy camper playing lots of SD DVD's on my 3930 (almost one-a-day) w/ never a glitch - and am always extremely impressed w/ the image and sound quality :)

Famous last words. Guess I jinxed my 3930 w/ the above pompous statement I made a mere 7 days ago.

Anyway - loaded a DVD last night and was met w/ a pink/green picture w/ lotsa little squares. Very Psychedelic looking (I was kinda tripping:)). Weird.

Anyway - switched HDMI out to RGB and the picture reverted back to normal. Same for component out. Picture normal. Back to YcbCr. Back to the 60's:D. Powered unit on/off - tried hard reset. Didn't help:(. Unplugged - re-plugged HDMI cable. Powered up player and now it's OK. Not sure what to think ...?

Famous last words. Guess I jinxed my 3930 w/ the above pompous statement I made a mere 7 days ago.

Anyway - loaded a DVD last night and was met w/ a pink/green picture w/ lotsa little squares. Very Psychedelic looking (I was kinda tripping:)). Weird.

Anyway - switched HDMI out to RGB and the picture reverted back to normal. Same for component out. Picture normal. Back to YcbCr. Back to the 60's:D. Powered unit on/off - tried hard reset. Didn't help:(. Unplugged - re-plugged HDMI cable. Powered up player and now it's OK. Not sure what to think ...?

Boy that's kind of scary....I have had my 3930 for 5 months now and it's working perfectly but reading some of this scares me. Why are there problems with Denon dvd players? I am glad I purchased the extra year warranty.

loaded a DVD last night and was met w/ a pink/green picture w/ lotsa little squares....whoa!.........not good, sorry to hear this.


switched HDMI out to RGB and the picture reverted back to normal. Same for component out. Picture normal. Back to YcbCr. Back to the 60's:D. Powered unit on/off - tried hard reset. Didn't help. Not sure what to think ...?I'm still a little confused (un-educated) on the differences between RGB and YcbCr, and whether I should be using one format over the other? I believe I'm using YcbCr with my DVD-3930CI (HDMI), also as well on my DVD-3800BDCI. Should I always be using RGB?

I was under the impression one format is not necessarily an advantage over the other?

Hoping it's just a one-time glitch:)

Re: RGB and YcbCr-
Here's an excellent explanation from AVS Moderator Larry (PooperScooper):

quote:

"YCbCr is the digital counterpart to analog YPbPr component video. (YCbCr converted to analog is YPbPr). Digital RGB converted to analog is usually referred to as VGA.

SD and HD DVDs are encoded in 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. After/during decoding it's upsampled to YCbCr 4:2:2. If RGB output is required the YCbCr is upsampled again to 4:4:4 (sometimes done only once 4:2:0 -> 4:4:4) and a standard and simple transform converts to RGB 4:4:4. If done properly, you'll never notice the difference between the two. The advantage of YCbCr 4:2:2 is that it can be sent as 10bit (or 12bit) video via HDMI (all versions). RGB 4:4:4 is restricted to 8bit (except for the new deep color formats). However, if your display takes 8bit video and then upsamples to 10bit or higher for display, you may only need 8bit video. RGB is also the only format used with DVI (with a few exceptions)."

I think the optical block is the major bugaboo with the Denon DVD players. The second problem appears to be the Realta chip cooking itself in tight placements.

I think the optical block is the major bugaboo with the Denon DVD players. The second problem appears to be the Realta chip cooking itself in tight placements.

The second issue isn't a problem for me, the unit has lots of room to breath.

But the optical block concerns me.
Is there any pattern?
Hours of usage, date(s) of manufacture, or maybe just luck?

Here's an excellent explanation from AVS Moderator Larry (PooperScooper)good explanation, really appreciate this info!

How would a 2930 compare to a Panasonic S97 in terms of general video performance? I've got the opportunity to upgrade but obviously I won't do so if I'm taking a step down in some areas in terms of normal 480p playback. I'm not interested in how they upscale. I tried a 1920 and it failed compared to the S97; I think it might have been 'shimmering' that caught my eye on some critical material I use to compare players. Would the 2930 do better here maybe?

How would a 2930 compare to a Panasonic S97 in terms of general video performance? I've got the opportunity to upgrade but obviously I won't do so if I'm taking a step down in some areas in terms of normal 480p playback. I'm not interested in how they upscale. I tried a 1920 and it failed compared to the S97; I think it might have been 'shimmering' that caught my eye on some critical material I use to compare players. Would the 2930 do better here maybe?
IMO you would have to move up to the 3930 compared to the S97. I have a S97 and a 3930 the 3930 wins hands down. My friend has a 2910 it compares to the S97 by my eyes.

Hi all,

I just bought a 2nd hand 3930ci. I have been using it as an audio only player. I realize that when I play redbook CDs the first 0.5 second of the first track is always missing (cut-off). I have only tested it in 2 channels analog mode.

I haven't checked the firmware level yet.

It looks like the same situation when i was using my 3910 to my Harmon Kardon receiver.

Is there a fix for it?

Thanks,

KC

Hi all,

I just bought a 2nd hand 3930ci. I have been using it as an audio only player. I realize that when I play redbook CDs the first 0.5 second of the first track is always missing (cut-off). I have only tested it in 2 channels analog mode.

I haven't checked the firmware level yet.

It looks like the same situation when i was using my 3910 to my Harmon Kardon receiver.

Is there a fix for it?

Thanks,

KC

Are you using analog or digital outputs from the Denon?

If the latter there may be nothing wrong with either player.
I suspect something in the receiver's digital section takes a split second to sense an incoming signal then turns itself on.

Are you using analog or digital outputs from the Denon?

If the latter there may be nothing wrong with either player.
I suspect something in the receiver's digital section takes a split second to sense an incoming signal then turns itself on.

That was the analog.

The modder is going to look into it for me.

I'm looking into a 2930ci that I can pick up for about four hundred, second-hand, and the one thing that scares me about it is the compatibility issue. I have a lot of personal backups, made with different formats and different hardware, and I've already had a big disappointment with another highly-acclaimed player (the Oppo DVD-980H) not consistently playing them. I've read a lot of posts about a similar problem with the 2930ci, but it's not obvious to me whether these were "opening-night jitters" with a first batch, or an ongoing drawback for this particular model.

My other candidate is a Sony DVP-NS3100ES, which I gather is sort of a "plow horse" in terms of PQ and functionality, but my old DVP-NS70H never, ever, ever failed to spin-up a personal backup, which would mean a lot if I could replicate it in a player that had multichannel analog audio output, hdmi upconversion, and a lip-sync adjustment.

Can someone put my mind at ease about the 2930ci? I think it's the (vastly?) better player than the 3100ES, but if it won't play my backups it doesn't matter.

unfortunately, based on reports and my own personal experience with the 3930ci, the playback of personal recorded DVD media is unreliable. The Sony players seem to have a stellar reputation in this regard. My own experience confirms that. I use my Sony BR player for all such media...sadly forgoing the wonderful PQ and upconversion of the 3930ci. Can't understand why Sony can get this consistently right with even $100 players, yet Denon can't with its 'fancy' $1500 (and higher) players. They regularly choke on personally recorded DVD media...in my experience.

unfortunately, based on reports and my own personal experience with the 3930ci, the playback of personal recorded DVD media is unreliable. The Sony players seem to have a stellar reputation in this regard. My own experience confirms that. I use my Sony BR player for all such media...sadly forgoing the wonderful PQ and upconversion of the 3930ci. Can't understand why Sony can get this consistently right with even $100 players, yet Denon can't with its 'fancy' $1500 (and higher) players. They regularly choke on personally recorded DVD media...in my experience.

Personally I have a 3930 and have never experienced any problems with backup copies of movies nor with originals. The 3930 has served me well for 1,5 year. The PQ and upscaling is excellent. I am a happy owner ;-)

Personally I have a 3930 and have never experienced any problems with backup copies of movies nor with originals. The 3930 has served me well for 1,5 year. The PQ and upscaling is excellent. I am a happy owner ;-)

consider yourself lucky, my unit crapped unit three times in eight months... the first time they swapped out for a new one...

consider yourself lucky, my unit crapped unit three times in eight months... the first time they swapped out for a new one...

My 3930 has been problem free since I bought it a year ago April.

Lucky? I'm not so sure.

After all the problems with my Hitachi LCD-RPTV I figure I'm overdue for a device that works properly ;)

unfortunately, based on reports and my own personal experience with the 3930ci, the playback of personal recorded DVD media is unreliable. The Sony players seem to have a stellar reputation in this regard. My own experience confirms that. I use my Sony BR player for all such media...sadly forgoing the wonderful PQ and upconversion of the 3930ci. Can't understand why Sony can get this consistently right with even $100 players, yet Denon can't with its 'fancy' $1500 (and higher) players. They regularly choke on personally recorded DVD media...in my experience.

Denon DVD players (all of them) are terribly inconsistent w/ DVD-R media. Not sure why ...? I also use a Sony player (solely) for my DVD-R collection(300-400 titles).

I just picked up a DVP-NS3100ES, so we'll see how that goes when it gets here.

Greetings all. I'm a new owner of a 2930ci for about 2 weeks now and so far, so good.

I have a couple of questions I wonder if you folks would help me with. The Denon is directly connected to my HDTV - a DLP Toshiba which means the sound is basically feeding my Toshiba's internal speakers, only. When I turn on the Denon the "HDMI" light flashes - most likely when the Toshiba is shut off. Is this normal? Does it indicate a problem or just that the TV is off?

Secondly, the TV Aspect setting according to the manual are 4:3 PS for Pan and Scan DVDs which I do not buy. The next setting is 4:3 LB for a Letterboxed result which is what I have always had for my 16:9 Toshiba. The final setting which is the default and is for a 16:9 hookup - which is what I have - floods the entire Toshiba with picture. Is this setting stretching the picture from the DVD movie? If so, should I disregard the manual's advice to use the third setting for 16:9 and get a more nature, honest letterboxed setting by switching to 4:3 LB even though my HDTV is 16:9. The manual really doesn't get into giving much in the way of advice.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Regards,
SNazz123

Denon DVD players (all of them) are terribly inconsistent w/ DVD-R media. Not sure why ...? I also use a Sony player (solely) for my DVD-R collection(300-400 titles).yeah, I'm finding this is a somewhat common problem so I don't even risk loading DVD-R's for fear of screwing things up. But the Sony's seem to do well with DVD-R's, CD-R's, etc.,...

I also have two Philips DVR/Hard-Drive units (HDRW-720/17). very cool design and functionality. But totally fragile operation. When things are working it is one of the most beautiful toy's you could have. I loaded a pre-recorded DVD-R in one unit and it basically had a "cardiac arrest" and died- just freaked out, locked-up, flashed every indicator and display character, then crashed with the disc in it (could not use eject function). Swapped this unit with my other one, and it did the same exact thing. So I don't use pre-burned disc's (of any kind) in my players (maybe using a Sony or an Oppo).

Hi there,
I am seeking for player which is supported most of formats (excl BD) and suppose that 2930 would be nice for that role. I plan to connect the player by Dlink3 to AVR-4306.
I have got some questions on 2930, please:

1. Would 2930 play DVD-Audio discs burn myself of disc image w. so-called "watermarks"? I heard there are some problems with it at Denon, unlike Pioneer or Onkyo?

2. What is maximum resolution of MPEG4 movies the player is capable to play? Is it 720x560 or may be higher? for example, is 1920x1080 playable?

3. Did Denon improve the quality of 2930 (for items produced in 2008) as so many claims obtained over the globe regarding reading disc faults?
As I understood, those are related to driver and/or laser malfunctioning...

Thank you.

most likely when the Toshiba is shut off. Is this normal? Does it indicate a problem or just that the TV is off?

Normal - it indicates that the player doesn't have a lock with the other end of the HDMI cable (TV is off).


The final setting which is the default and is for a 16:9 hookup - which is what I have - floods the entire Toshiba with picture. Is this setting stretching the picture from the DVD movie?

Set it as you have it - you're telling the player you have a 16:9 TV. The player will output the correct aspect ratio to fill your screen - likely with black bars on the top or the bottom depending on the DVD. If it looks incorrect, I'd guess your TV is stretching it.

I just picked up a DVP-NS3100ES, so we'll see how that goes when it gets here.

I got one too!!! you are gonna hate it... it crushes blacks and whites. the image is soft and the upscaling is mediocre. Just to add salt to your wound, it is painfully slow for a DVD player.

Hello everyone!
Where are you Dutchman? Have not seen any messages from you for a quite some time.
I received back my 3930 from Denon UK.
They replaced:
1) Traverse mechanism (including the optical block.)
2) FLD tube for display,(I asked them for this) because there was a dimmed place in my display.(?!)
3) Main video power board.
All I can say is that I am extremely dissapointed with Denon's build quality of 3930.
On the other hand, I am extremely impressed with the way Denon UK's service dealt with my unit. Excellent service! They also did my Realta chip upgrade (I hope).From what I learned from this forum, my IP 070518 indicates that Realta chip's software was upgraded.The only discrepancy is that my MAKE DAY is 111, and not 802 as with Dutchman's 3930.
Anyone knows what "MAKE DAY" stands for (when I check the 3930's software)?
Many thanks.

Normal - it indicates that the player doesn't have a lock with the other end of the HDMI cable (TV is off).



Set it as you have it - you're telling the player you have a 16:9 TV. The player will output the correct aspect ratio to fill your screen - likely with black bars on the top or the bottom depending on the DVD. If it looks incorrect, I'd guess your TV is stretching it.

Thank Mr-Ben! I had the Denon 2930ci on the 4:3 LB mode last night and a 2.35:1 DVD looked too severely letterboxed. I then switched back to my original setting of 16:9 and the film was much more normally letterboxed and all seems right. Thanks for your input and letting me know that the flashing HDMI light was normal for HDTV being off.

Regards,
SNazz

Hi MICK V,

I'm still here as you can read right now.

I do not have news for the DVD-3930 so reading a lot here.

Don't worry i'll be here and i stay here.
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AVR-4306 users New firmware 6.0.0.3 is out now

I'm still confused whether to use RGB or YCbCr setting for HDMI? Right now I have it set for YCbCr 1080p. I'm using a fairly new Pioneer PDP-4280HD Kuro (plasma) display. I'm connecting through an NAD T175 surround-processor (with no video processing). Picture quality seems very good.

AVR-4306 users New firmware 6.0.0.3 is out now

Good news! Do you know when it would be placed on the site?


Oh, sorry, ignore my question - I found it :)

Hello all. I've got another question for any of you Denon 2930ci experts out there.

It is my understanding that this DVD player is an "upconverting" one yet there is no reference in the manual to upconverting. Here's my scenario: I've got the Denon plugged into my Toshiba HDTV's DLP's HDMI connection. Now, oddly, the Toshiba's HDMI port does not take a 1080p connection. So, I've directed the Denon to output a 1080i to the Toshiba. I believe the Toshiba then upconverts to 1080p. Does that seem correct to you folks?

And, by sending a 1080i signal to the Toshiba, have I effectively done an upconversion from the Denon? Or is upconversion from the Denon an automatic process?

Any feedback on these issues would be much appreciated. Thanks all!

SNazz123

I'm still confused whether to use RGB or YCbCr setting for HDMI? Right now I have it set for YCbCr 1080p. I'm using a fairly new Pioneer PDP-4280HD Kuro (plasma) display. I'm connecting through an NAD T175 surround-processor (with no video processing). Picture quality seems very good.

Keep it at YCbCr. The RGB format is less capable, and is there for devices which don't support YCbCr. It's very likely they look identical in your situation.

And, by sending a 1080i signal to the Toshiba, have I effectively done an upconversion from the Denon? Or is upconversion from the Denon an automatic process?


Upconverting means outputting a resolution higher than 480. You're upconverting the 480i signal to 1080i with the Denon, and the TV is de-interlacing when it converts the 1080i to 1080p. You can also deinterlace in the Denon and upconvert in the TV by setting the Denon to output 480p. Depending on the relative quality of your deinterlacers & scalers, one may perform better than the other, so try both settings and choose whichever looks the best.

Keep it at YCbCr. The RGB format is less capable, and is there for devices which don't support YCbCr. It's very likely they look identical in your situation.thanks for your input! yeah, from doing quick test-comparison, my eye seems to think YCbCr looks better (sharper?).

Now I'm looking into manual trying to see how to adjust DRE = 0?

Upconverting means outputting a resolution higher than 480. You're upconverting the 480i signal to 1080i with the Denon, and the TV is de-interlacing when it converts the 1080i to 1080p. You can also deinterlace in the Denon and upconvert in the TV by setting the Denon to output 480p. Depending on the relative quality of your deinterlacers & scalers, one may perform better than the other, so try both settings and choose whichever looks the best.

That's what I suspected mr-ben but I just was not sure! I'll have to do as you say and experiment with the Denon deinterlacing vs. the Toshiba doing it. If I want to experiment like this do I start with sending a 480i to the Toshiba and letting it do the deinterlacing and scaling? Then try 720p, etc.?

Further, if I'm upconverting, say, from the Denon as I am currently, should I select or deselect the "Progressive" setting in the menu or is that a separate issue. That is, I always thought the Progressive setting was only for 480 output. True or false?

Thanks once again for giving me some clear information and keeping, or getting me, on the goodfoot.

Best regards,
SNazz123