Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- [Text View] - Page 2

QuadESL63

07-09-06, 01:01 PM

Neither. I am very happy with my 3910 for upconverting, and I always wait for a 2nd generation player with brand new technology. To be honest, neither the Tosh nor the Samsung provide the features I want, and are not exactly high end hardware. When a top manufacturer like Denon or Onkyo makes an HD-DVD or BD player, and provides SACD capabilities, and hopefully both HD-DVD and BD capabilities, then I'm definitely in. Until then, the 3910 is good enough for me (with my 720p DLP). And there is no way I would ever consider the Samsung BD player, based on the horrendous reviews!

Unfortunately my HD-A1 @ 1080i trumps my 3910 @ 720p even with my 720p Panasonics AE700 doing the downscaling. You have to see it. The slow boot up time and other quirks (which are actually few) can be annoying but I can live with that. Some can't and that is a personal choice. I don't care if the player looks high-end or not since it is better in terms of PQ for SD-DVDs and those HD-DVDs look magnificient. I keep the Denon just for the high-res. audio (I have a pretty nice CD - DAC combo so I never use the Denon for critical CD listening anyway). Actually someone in the HD DVD players forum have mentioned that the A1/XA1 just happens, by accident or by design, to be a damn good redbook CD player on its own! I have never tried that so I can't say that for sure.

Of course if Denon make a universal HD players that include SACD/DVD-A I will jump onto the bandwagon immediately, but until then I have my Denon for high-res. audio and the Toshiba for SD + HD video.

overcast

07-09-06, 01:10 PM

I plan on buying a PS3. That will be my hi-def player for the next few years until they work out all the bugs in the technology.
Wow, I'm sorry.

FoolintheRain

07-09-06, 03:21 PM

These sound great, but I think I'll keep my 3910 until they have a 3000 level product that is truly universal (everything 3910 plays now + HD-DVD and BD). I realize it will probably be about 3 years, but that's OK. It will basically be the 5000 version when they update that one. Very similar to how my 3910 is basically the 5900 with the bugs worked out.

Concerning SACD and DVD-A, I don't think Denon will drop them (or HDCD) for that matter, just b/c they are high end players and we expect that from them. Can't wait to have a player that does:

DVD-V, CD, HDCD, DVD-A, SACD, HD-DVD, BD, and all the audio codecs over Denon Link! That will be awesome. Of course then I'll need to update my receiver to decode DD+, DD-HD, and DTS-HD...but heh, that'll be about 3 years from now too. I better start saving now. I might as well get a 1080p projector at the same time :)

OCDMedic

07-09-06, 04:50 PM

Wow, I'm sorry.
Don't be. This will get me over the initial hump then I can upgrade as need be in the future. I have a wife and two kids as I am sure other people on the forum do and I can't go tech crazy when I would like to. It's all about patience and continually bringing it up to the wife until she goes crazy and lets you buy whatever you want.

stereowise

07-09-06, 04:59 PM

I think a lot of us will be spending a lot of $$$ in about 3 years. I was in the market for a new DVD player. I realized that I would want to get a HD model in a year or so after the 1st generation bugs are worked out, and I figured the video performance would also be top notch on SD. So I placed most emphasis on audio and picked up a Denon DVD-2200 (same audio as 2910, but less $$). it will handle video for about 12 mos, then I will have 2 players until a fully universal one comes out (hopefully in around 3 years).

overcast

07-09-06, 09:36 PM

$600 initial hump!?!
The Toshiba sells for at LEAST $100 less.

Don't be. This will get me over the initial hump then I can upgrade as need be in the future. I have a wife and two kids as I am sure other people on the forum do and I can't go tech crazy when I would like to. It's all about patience and continually bringing it up to the wife until she goes crazy and lets you buy whatever you want.

OCDMedic

07-09-06, 11:02 PM

My kids and I wanted a PS3 anyways. This just kills 2 birds with 1 stone. I always got to put the kids first. ;)

sjoh

07-10-06, 01:54 PM

Hello Everyone,

Somewhat off-topic, but does anyone know if Denon (or anyone else for that matter) is coming up with a 5 or 6 disk universal DVD changer with HDMI and one of the newer, better scaling/de-interlacing chips?

Regards,
Sejin.

dsmith901

07-10-06, 02:09 PM

Maybe so, but who in their right mind would buy that POS first generation clunker just to play DVDs? I understand your point if you want the HD-DVDs too (I don't), but even then it would seem to make more sense to wait for a second generation player without all the quirks.

And no, I am not a Blu Ray guy. I have no intention of getting either one for several years. I will let you first adapters - read beta testers - have all the fun. :)

But why spend $1,500 on a SD DVD player, no matter how good, when you can get one almost as good for $200 (Oppo) and save the rest for a 2nd gen HD/BD-DVD player? And who says the Toshiba A-1 is a POS except a Blu-Ray proponent (as if the Samsung BD player was something to brag about)? Or better you you could spend that $1,500 now on a DVDO VP-20/30 and improve PQ on all your digital video, not just DVD, not to mention getting a nice HDMI switcher in the bargain?

QuadESL63

07-10-06, 02:58 PM

But why spend $1,500 on a SD DVD player, no matter how good, when you can get one almost as good for $200 (Oppo) and save the rest for a 2nd gen HD/BD-DVD player? And who says the Toshiba A-1 is a POS except a Blu-Ray proponent (as if the Samsung BD player was something to brag about)? Or better you you could spend that $1,500 now on a DVDO VP-20/30 and improve PQ on all your digital video, not just DVD, not to mention getting a nice HDMI switcher in the bargain?

Some folks here get the 3910/3930 not just for the upscaling SD-DVD playback... they also want to listen to DVD-A/SACD 2ch/multichannel musics as well.

zyoung

07-10-06, 03:06 PM

Some folks here get the 3910/3930 not just for the upscaling SD-DVD playback... they also want to listen to DVD-A/SACD 2ch/multichannel musics as well.

Agreed, most of the extra expense is devoted to the audio section of this player, and to me it is worth it to have a universal player that is on par with a dedicated music transport.

Kevin C Brown

07-10-06, 08:49 PM

There's also reliability and quality control in addition to sound quality. I don't know if my impression is correct or not, but you'd also get that with the Denon more so than with Oppo.

DavidHir

07-10-06, 11:07 PM

QuadESL63

07-11-06, 10:10 AM

The Denons (at least with my 2900 and 3910) are pretty well built and reliable... at least more reliable than my Pioneer DV-S10A (which died a year after I got it all the way from HK).

One thing I don't like my 3910 is that when you choose to use i.Link audio the coax/optical SPDIF ports are disabled! With my setup I can't connect the SPDIF to my 2ch DAC for CD and the i.Link to my Pioneer Elite for 2ch/multichannels SACD/DVD-A without going through the setup menu to make the change. If the 3930 allow both to be active at the same time I'm all for it :D After reading more and more on this player it got me seriously tempted :rolleyes: I just don't know if I should get another $1000+ Cadn player again at this time esp. when my Toshiba HD-A1 is doing a fine job on SD-DVD movies w/ HD-DVD playback capability, and my 3910 has me covered for hi-res audio.

zyoung

07-11-06, 11:52 AM

One thing I don't like my 3910 is that when you choose to use i.Link audio the coax/optical SPDIF ports are disabled! With my setup I can't connect the SPDIF to my 2ch DAC for CD and the i.Link to my Pioneer Elite for 2ch/multichannels SACD/DVD-A without going through the setup menu to make the change.

Ditto for me, when using MC analog for music/SACD/DVD-A, and DL3 for movies I have to go into the menu to make the switch. It is annoying, but I think it's a pretty common thing with most players to disable one or the other.

c722

07-12-06, 01:47 AM

It is annoying, but I think it's a pretty common thing with most players to disable one or the other.

well I think it's not uncommon to have both available. The Pio 59 does. Also, for the 3910 if u set video output to be HDMI, you will have no output at component. You have to set the output either digital or analogue. The pio has both active at the same time.

I hope the new Denons do not have these restrictions. The 5910 has both active. So if they follow the design pattern the new ones should be the same.

zyoung

07-12-06, 02:40 AM

well I think it's not uncommon to have both available. The Pio 59 does. Also, for the 3910 if u set video output to be HDMI, you will have no output at component. You have to set the output either digital or analogue. The pio has both active at the same time.

I hope the new Denons do not have these restrictions. The 5910 has both active. So if they follow the design pattern the new ones should be the same.

Well, I was talking about analog vs. digital audio in this case, and I should really clarify. The 3910 will output via the MC analog outs while DL3 is activated, but the AL24 plus indicator doesn't light up until you disable DL3.

As far as simultaneous video output , I don't know, but it's not something I would ever do anyway.

c722

07-12-06, 10:59 AM

EDIT: sorry I see how the confusion starts. I was actually referring to Quad's remarks.

The 3910 will output via the MC analog outs while DL3 is activated, but the AL24 plus indicator doesn't light up until you disable DL3.

Well AL24 plus is an analogue "feature", it *may* make some sense to disable itself when DL3 is enabled, since it thinks you are going to use DL3 to do a digital transport and go whatever DA processing in the receiver. Since DL3 carries both DVDA and SACD now, it probably is excuseable. (i.e. if u can use DL3 in the receiver for DD/DTS , why can't you use it for mc audio ?)

Quad's complaint, which I fully share, is that is disables SPDIF audio out when u select ilink. SPDIF is another digital transport, which is very useful for a 2channel setup. For pure stereo we may have a separate gear in addition to the pre/pro for HT. I think the 5910 doesn't have this restriction. The pio 59 doesn't have either.

As far as simultaneous video output , I don't know, but it's not something I would ever do anyway.

I guess it will be very useful when it's connected to multiple displays, say a TV set and a projector at the same time. Not that I have both on at the same time, but I should not need to "select" an output whenever I turn on a PJ or a TV. Again the 5910 has no such restriction so I'm optimistic on this.

zyoung

07-12-06, 11:52 AM

I could see how that could be a problem, just not one that I've ever run up against because my setup is more conventional: 3910 connected to a 3805 connected to a single 5.1 speaker setup, no additional amplification, no additional display.

PooperScooper

07-12-06, 11:58 AM

If you guys are just going to talk about the 3910, could you please take it to the 3910 thread? Thanks.

larry

s2silber

07-12-06, 12:03 PM

Can anyone report any sightings of the '3930 for sale? I've seen only the following on a pre-order basis.
http://www.newyorkwholesaleaudiovideo.com/DENON-DVD3930CI-P23928C1711.aspx

PooperScooper

07-12-06, 12:43 PM

Cool, now we have a price. (Unless I missed it earlier).

larry

shane55

07-12-06, 12:47 PM

Yes, and a price on the 2930 as well.
:D
shane

s2silber

07-12-06, 12:50 PM

Cool, now we have a price. (Unless I missed it earlier).

larry
Mind you, that's a discounted price from an unauthorized online dealer.

BillP

07-12-06, 01:02 PM

Mind you, that's a discounted price from an unauthorized online dealer.
Which makes it very risky (I believe Denon does not honor the warranty on unauthorized dealer purchases). I believe the list price is $1500 (same as the 3910).

Pete

07-12-06, 01:21 PM

Update according to my local Denon dealer:

Denon will ship the DVD-2930CI this month -- probably towards month end. MSRP: $849. The DVD-3930CI ships in August -- end of the month. MSRP: $1499

The DVD-3910 goes away, but the DVD-2910 stays in the line to fill the gap between the DVD-1930 (August/$349) and the 2930CI.

shane55

07-12-06, 01:57 PM

Mind you, that's a discounted price from an unauthorized online dealer.
True 'nuff.
I just called my guy at Magnolia. No date for anything but the 1930 (I didn't ask), but the price for the 2930 & 3930 were list (see above) and they already had a few pre-orders.

shane

Bill Mac

07-12-06, 03:52 PM

Is there any info. on the 2930 as far as audio/ video inputs and outputs? I was wondering if there is a i-link output.

Thanks, Bill

shane55

07-12-06, 04:01 PM

Is there any info. on the 2930 as far as audio/ video inputs and outputs? I was wondering if there is a i-link output.

Thanks, Bill
It doesn't appear to.
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200606/denon_DVD/index.htm

shane

Bill Mac

07-12-06, 05:24 PM

It doesn't appear to.
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200606/denon_DVD/index.htm

shane

Shane,

Thanks for the link. I wonder if it is HDMI 1.2.

Bill

shane55

07-12-06, 05:49 PM

Shane,

Thanks for the link. I wonder if it is HDMI 1.2.

Bill

HDMI 的輸出同時包括多聲道的音頻信號 version 1.1

shane

Bill Mac

07-12-06, 06:31 PM

HDMI 的輸出同時包括多聲道的音頻信號 version 1.1

shane

Shane,

Sorry about that, how could I have missed that! How would you say that by the way.:)

Thanks again, Bill

shane55

07-12-06, 07:05 PM

Shane,

Sorry about that, how could I have missed that! How would you say that by the way.:)

Thanks again, Bill
Just like it's spelled. :D

shane

stereowise

07-12-06, 11:17 PM

I'm not sure if Denon has better quality control or not. But, I will say Oppo's customer service is top notch. Rumor is Oppo is coming out with a higher end player within the next six months or so - should be interesting.

I just picked up a referbished Denon DVD-2200. I wanted a universal dvd player with good build quality and excellent audio quality. I have heard good things about the Oppo players, but skeptical about just how good sub 5lb player can be in the build and audio quality. I'd heard some say that companies like Denon just jack up the prices of their units and that is why Oppo is so cheap. I'm not saying that theory is wrong, but I would love to have it proven correct with Oppo coming out with a universal player that will play about every format known to exist, with HDMI 1.2, the new Silicon Optics like the Denon DVD-2930, Burr-Brown DSD-179X chips, isolated construction in a 10lb package, and a <$500 price. THAT would rock!!! Ok...I'll wake up now.

stereowise

07-12-06, 11:28 PM

It doesn't appear to.
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200606/denon_DVD/index.htm

shane

Thanks for the link. Loks like they are still using the same Burr-Brown DSD-1791 chips in the 2930 as in my 2200. Getting a lot of mileage out of them. I'll just keep my 2200 for audio and wait for a HD player to use as my video player.

Expletive

07-13-06, 12:04 AM

I just picked up a referbished Denon DVD-2200. I wanted a universal dvd player with good build quality and excellent audio quality. I have heard good things about the Oppo players, but skeptical about just how good sub 5lb player can be in the build and audio quality. I'd heard some say that companies like Denon just jack up the prices of their units and that is why Oppo is so cheap. I'm not saying that theory is wrong, but I would love to have it proven correct with Oppo coming out with a universal player that will play about every format known to exist, with HDMI 1.2, the new Silicon Optics like the Denon DVD-2930, Burr-Brown DSD-179X chips, isolated construction in a 10lb package, and a <$500 price. THAT would rock!!! Ok...I'll wake up now.

Well the new one does that (play all the audio formats) but over HDMI 1.1 which is arguably just as good. As for the BB DACs, if youve got an HDMI 1.1 compliant receiver/processor you have no need for ANY DACs in the player. :)

parkview51

07-13-06, 12:46 AM

Crutchfield has the specs and price for the 1930ci & 2930ci - no 3930ci yet

Sorry not enough posts for URLs - Just started fishing in here a week ago.

Parkview

parkview51

07-13-06, 12:49 AM

From the crutchfield site:

1930ci
Sporting a solid chassis and aluminum front panel, Denon's well-built DVD-1930CI delivers the kind of video and audio performance that home theater buffs love. This DVD player uses advanced processing to remove the imperfections that can appear when film-based images are converted to digital video. The resulting picture is smoother, more natural-looking, and more filmlike. It can also upconvert regular DVDs to a higher resolution for an even better picture from a TV with a digital input. The '1930CI can even output video signals at 1080p — the highest TV resolution currently available. Many of today's HDTVs can display 1080p images, and we'll see many more in the future.

Music fans won't be left out in the cold — this versatile DVD player allows you to enjoy the warm, full sound of SACD and DVD-Audio discs. With Denon's digital bass management system, you can tailor the sound from these high-res audio sources to fit your system and speaker configuration. High-quality digital-to-analog converters from Burr-Brown will give you the best sound from all of your music, including regular CDs and those loaded with MP3 and WMA files.

Details:

» digital video upconversion
» selectable 480p/720p/1080i/1080p output via HDMI digital interface (separate adapter available for TVs with DVI input)
» selectable progressive-scan mode for smoother video with HD-compatible TVs (via the component video output)
» Faroudja DCDi™ de-interlacer with 3-2 pulldown processing
» digital bass management (fixed 80Hz low-pass crossover)
» 2MB buffer for quick layer change
» Virtual Surround Sound for enhanced 2-speaker sound
» Dolby® Digital and DTS® decoding with 5.1 analog audio output
» optical and coaxial digital outputs for Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM
» 1 set of A/V outputs (composite, S-video, 480i/480p component video, and HDMI)
» RS-232C port for third party controllers
» plays DVD-Video, DVD-R & DVD-RW, and DVD+R & DVD+RW
» plays SACD, DVD-Audio, CD, CD-R & CD-RW, and MP3 and WMA CD-R & CD-RW
» plays digital picture CD (JPEG), Kodak Picture CD, and Fujifilm Fujicolor CD
» remote control
» 108MHz/11-bit video DAC for interlaced video
» 216MHz/11-bit video DAC for progressive video
» dual Burr-Brown PCM-1738 192kHz/24-bit audio DACs
» 17-1/8"W x 3-3/16"H x 12-1/2"D
» warranty: 1 year
» Want more peace of mind? Extended Service Plans Available
» designed for use with "Region 1" coded DVDs

2930ci
Denon's DVD-2930CI is one hefty DVD player — and one that's fully equipped to deliver attention-grabbing picture and sound quality. Its rock-solid, three-layer design and aluminum front panel fight vibrations that can hinder performance. Denon built the audio and video circuit boards into separate blocks to prevent interference and keep signals as clean as possible.

The 2930CI's advanced video circuitry makes its picture truly an amazing sight. A powerful new Silicon Optix video processor transforms DVD signals into progressive-scan images on a pixel-by-pixel basis for sharp, clear detail. The processor also helps faithfully reconstruct film sources when upconverting them to 1080p, the highest TV resolution currently available. A 10-bit digital filter reduces "jaggies" and other picture artifacts without blurring the image. All in all, DVDs will show a level of detail you may not have seen before, especially when viewed on today's 1080p-capable high-definition TVs.

Audiophiles will appreciate Denon's AL24 Plus processing, which brings out all of the nuances in your music with optimum clarity. Denon Link allows this DVD player to pass SACD and DVD-Audio signals to a compatible Denon receiver. This is a noise-free connection, so you'll get uncompromised sound with your high-resolution audio discs. The DVD-2930CI also does a great job with regular CDs and those loaded with MP3 and WMA (Windows® Media Audio) files.

Details:

» digital video upconversion
» selectable 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p output via HDMI digital interface (separate adapter available for TVs with DVI input)
» selectable progressive-scan mode for smoother video with HD-compatible TVs (via the component video output)
» Silicon Optix Reon-VX50 10-bit video processor
» Noise Shaped Video™ reduces noise in the video signal
» 8MB buffer for quick layer change
» PC-compatible format scaling (VGA, XGA, WXGA, SXGA)
» digital bass management (selectable low-pass crossover)
» SRS Virtual Surround
» AL24 Plus sound processing
» HDCD decoding
» lip sync correction
» Dolby® Digital and DTS® decoding with 5.1 analog audio output
» Denon Link digital output passes Dolby Digital, DTS, DVD-Audio, and SACD signals to compatible Denon receivers
» optical and coaxial digital outputs for Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM
» 1 set of A/V outputs (composite, S-video, 480i/480p component video, and HDMI)
» RS-232C port for third party controllers
» plays DVD-Video, DVD-R & DVD-RW, DVD+R & DVD+RW, and DivX® (version 6.0) discs
» plays SACD, DVD-Audio, CD, CD-R & CD-RW, and MP3 and WMA CD-R & CD-RW
» plays digital picture CD (JPEG), Kodak Picture CD, and Fujifilm Fujicolor CD
» remote control
» dual, discrete 216MHz/12-bit video DACs
» dual Burr-Brown PCM-1791 192kHz/24-bit audio DACs
» 17-1/8"W x 4"H x 12-1/2"D
» warranty: 1 year
» Want more peace of mind? Extended Service Plans Available
» designed for use with "Region 1" coded DVDs

PooperScooper

07-13-06, 07:03 AM

shane55

07-13-06, 11:49 AM

The 2930 looks like a very nice player. It will be interesting to see how the Reon compares to the Realta in the 3930 for deinterlacing. Looks like the 2930 does 480i via HDMI. Although if you want 480i, no need to spend the extra bucks for the Reon, etc.

larry
Bingo.
I've got the 2930 in my sights as my last DVD player. ;)
I can't use the 480i output as my HDMI will not accept it. It's mostly for the D-link connection (for SACD adn DVD-A) and undoubtedly a better PQ than what I'm currently using.

shane

jvernon

07-13-06, 02:39 PM

But why spend $1,500 on a SD DVD player, no matter how good, when you can get one almost as good for $200 (Oppo) and save the rest for a 2nd gen HD/BD-DVD player? And who says the Toshiba A-1 is a POS except a Blu-Ray proponent (as if the Samsung BD player was something to brag about)? Or better you you could spend that $1,500 now on a DVDO VP-20/30 and improve PQ on all your digital video, not just DVD, not to mention getting a nice HDMI switcher in the bargain?

The new 2930 is $849, not $1500.

And yes, the Oppo is an alternative.

I do not intend to deal with the operational clunkiness of the Toshiba HD DVD.

I will look at whichever format is around in another 3 years or so.

:)

stereowise

07-13-06, 11:22 PM

stereowise

07-13-06, 11:35 PM

Looks like the 2930 uses the same BB chips as the 2200. Glad i saved some $.

PooperScooper

07-14-06, 10:57 AM

Just because they use the same DACs doesn't mean they will sound the same.

larry

bri1270

07-14-06, 12:08 PM

I went to Tweeter in Salem, NH this morning, and they said they'd be getting the 2930 sometime between the last week in July and the first week in August. I also ran into Magnolia, which is right across the street, and they said they could order one for me and have it in house in four weeks.

PooperScooper

07-14-06, 12:14 PM

If history repeats itself, then Kris should have one or both of the new models (or soon will have). He has a 5910 so it will be interesting to see how they compare.

larry

bri1270

07-14-06, 12:41 PM

I'm really interested in seeing how they stack up. I'm not too keen on dumping another $800 or $1500 bucks, but what the hell...

Kristoffer

07-15-06, 04:48 AM

Just because they use the same DACs doesn't mean they will sound the same.

larry
Yeah, I don't understand how they can use the same chip, when the 2930 has AL 24...
But that must be something thats applied later in the process.

PooperScooper

07-15-06, 08:14 AM

I'm really interested in seeing how they stack up. I'm not too keen on dumping another $800 or $1500 bucks, but what the hell... It's doubtful you'll see new SD deinterlacing tech post Reon, Realta and ABT102 chips (I'd like to see a player with one of these deinterlacers - ABT102, that is.). So provided there's no glitches, SD DVD playback may peak with the new players. After that it's problaby just price deductions. The new video processing in the works seems to be focused on HD streams.

larry

c722

07-15-06, 11:29 AM

(I'd like to see a player with one of these deinterlacers - ABT102, that is.). So provided there's no glitches, SD DVD playback may peak with the new players. After that it's problaby just price deductions.

I think there can still be significant differences in quality of scaling.

bri1270

07-15-06, 03:28 PM

Is there much information on the Reon? Is the 2930 it's first implementation?

The Rang

07-15-06, 07:41 PM

Is there much information on the Reon? Is the 2930 it's first implementation?

Good point.
At least the Realta in the 3930 has been in use for awhile (in the 5910).
You never know if the new chip has unforeseen glitches.

PooperScooper

07-16-06, 09:17 AM

I think there can still be significant differences in quality of scaling.Maybe so. Me, I don't think scaling is that hard to do compared to the others. And I've never seen anybody mention definciencies in the actual scaling of the players. If/when screens get denser than 1080p, newer scalers that can analyze more pixel real estate at a time may help but by then SD may be history more or less by then. I don't think you're going to see a follow-on to an ABT102 (which seems to be the scaling chip of choice for SD now) except possibly a shrink and lower cost part. One unknown is still the new NatSemi(?) part in the new Classe player. However, it is the only player I recall using it and it's been delayed (the Classe) for quite some time.

larry

PooperScooper

07-16-06, 09:21 AM

Good point.
At least the Realta in the 3930 has been in use for awhile (in the 5910).
You never know if the new chip has unforeseen glitches. Hopefully, the Reon is just taking known, working, "pieces" from the Realta and putting into a less expensive part. And "pieces" is software nowadays, not hardware. Time will tell. :)

larry

c722

07-16-06, 10:47 PM

Maybe so. Me, I don't think scaling is that hard to do compared to the others.

I tend to agree with you on this. However after using DVDO scalers for years, and recently seeing a Lumagen unit, I see a significant difference in the scaling on SD materials. The lumagen unit just seemed to be sharper to my eyes. That's why I start to feel there is still room for improvement in scaling. Since HQV also prominently advertises its scaling feature (and those "detail enhancement", i.e. identifying car plate numbers from a satellite photo stuff), I hope to see a new enhancement in the scaling in 3930. That is, if is uses HQV to do the scaling and not the DVDO one, as in 5910.

Although I agree with you it may soon be irrelevant since everyone is onto HD now. Just like svideo. No one is really doing anything serious to improve it now. "It's over. Move on." :)

George Taylor

07-22-06, 07:24 AM

Dear Friends dos anyone know how to bypass a problem in the 3910 component out . WHen you use the DVI / HDMI output the component does not work only the svideo ? I have tried everything and no results.

Thanks

George

PooperScooper

07-22-06, 09:37 AM

George,
There's a whole thread dedicated to the 3910, please ask there: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=447795

Threads dedicated to a player have the -> (Green) arrow in the left column. They're easy to spot clicking through the title pages.

larry

The Rang

07-22-06, 11:00 AM

Here's a link to video clip from CEDIA UK re the new Denon's.
Not particularly informative but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.cinenow.com/uk/play-video-343.html

alfbinet

07-22-06, 12:00 PM

How much will the 3930 cost? I have a 3910 which I am going to seel tomorrow on one of the auction sites. I am primarily am interested in video performance, I have a handful of SACDs and DVD-As so I guess I don't have that much to loose on not waiting for this player. I have a Toshiba (please don't spit in my face for having an "inferior" CE device) HD player. Upscaling is superior to my 3910, and I am a fan of Denon! I just can not justify paying $$$$ on a player that will not play High Def material. Blu-Ray is not cutting it at this point either. Granted the Denon can play both these formats (SACD and DVD-A) but how many new titles are coming out in these formats? I am not willing to shell out the bucks for a high end CD player.

The Rang

07-22-06, 12:50 PM

The 3930 has been rumoured to hit the streets at $1499.

I'm hoping that (a) it's less than that to compete with HD-DVD and/or BR and (b) the upscaling is improved to at least equal the Toshiba.

PooperScooper

07-22-06, 12:58 PM

The Rang

07-22-06, 01:06 PM

PooperScooper

07-22-06, 05:57 PM

We'll be watching SD DVDs for quite a while. I've had my A1 for a little over a week and there's only about 5 or 6 more HD-DVDs that I want to see out of the ones that are available now. :)

larry

alfbinet

07-22-06, 06:56 PM

The price is not rumor. And the upscaling/SD performance of the Toshiba is blown way out of proportion. It does a good job, but the 3910 is a better SD player as are some others. Denon, nor any of the other manufacturers, don't see HiDef DVD players as competition. They are "noise" wrt $$$ and volume and will be for quite a while.

larry

I respectively disagree on the upscaling issue. I am not the only one who has put the 3910 out to pasture. I think Denon better get on the HD issue (either Blu-ray or HD DVD) soon. Although I suspect Blu-ray is having some rather thorny issues with their format at this stage of the game.

And I am a Denon fan. When they release a HD player I will be first in line.

a_ok2me

07-22-06, 09:44 PM

...And I am a Denon fan. When they release a HD player I will be first in line.Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of Denon is that they don't have skillful people to innovate like Sony (R&D unit). Rather, they borrow the technology and pack in better electronics. They have some propriety stuff, but nothing significant. I would think that's why they're slow to come out with new technology.

DJSloan

07-23-06, 05:24 AM

I have a Denon DVD-1600 and a DVD-2910. The scaler on my TV blows so I never understood what the hoopla was with the 1600. The 2910 was a major improvement for me in both video and audio. I am trying to decide if I should SDI the 1600 and get a scaler or buy the 3930. As far as we know:

1) New ESS decoder: I assume no other players use this chip yet but is it fairly safe to say it will be better than previous ESS chips? Should it be better than the decoders on the early Panasonics?
2) Realta deinterlacer: Everyone seems to think the deinterlacer is the most important piece of the chain and this is the one in the near unanimous reference 5910CI. So can you get any better?
3) Scaler: Is again the realta: its not talked about much for its scaling but do Teranex scalers have any known flaws compared to another high end products?

I know it will be a while until any reviews are out but it seem on paper the 3930 has the potential to be one of if not the best standalone player out there. With components like these how could Denon mess it up? as many people have mentioned they will. If the components are used to their potential will this compete with available SDI-scaler setups?

PooperScooper

07-23-06, 09:08 AM

I respectively disagree on the upscaling issue. I am not the only one who has put the 3910 out to pasture. I think Denon better get on the HD issue (either Blu-ray or HD DVD) soon. Although I suspect Blu-ray is having some rather thorny issues with their format at this stage of the game.

And I am a Denon fan. When they release a HD player I will be first in line.
The bottom line is that you are happy, that's all that matters. :)

larry

PooperScooper

07-23-06, 09:16 AM

I know it will be a while until any reviews are out but it seem on paper the 3930 has the potential to be one of if not the best standalone player out there. With components like these how could Denon mess it up? as many people have mentioned they will. If the components are used to their potential will this compete with available SDI-scaler setups?
If these players use the SO for scaling, it will be the first. The 5910 uses a ABT scaler. And, theoretically a one box solution would be better than a SDI->scaler solution. However, up until the 5910 and these new players the deinterlacers were better in the external processors. External scalers are more versatile. You will not see a DVD player from one of the big names that does "unlimited" video frequency output (resolutions) like external scalers. Let's not forget that SDI means no HDCP restrictions, too. That's still a big issue for some folks.

larry

eapleitez

07-24-06, 12:17 AM

bri1270

07-24-06, 07:05 AM

shane55

07-24-06, 11:40 AM

Anyone willing to spend anything over 400 dollars on an SD dvd player at this point is a prime-time fool. If it's all about video quality, then those dollars should be put towards the next-gen formats, whether you jump in now or wait awhile.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but there are many of us who don't want to have all our SACD and DVD-A's go to waste, and are looking for not only an excellent SD-DVD image but also superior audio.

Since there doesn't seem to be a 'universal' player in HD's future we will want to get the most of our current collections until one comes along... if ever.

Also, I am in need of a good player now... I can not wait for years until this format war is over.

shane

s2silber

07-24-06, 12:34 PM

I would echo shane55's comments exactly, adding only that it's unbelievably rude and arrogant -- especially in a forum of devoted hobbyists who know what's important to them in AV equipment, and make sophisticated purchase decisions accordingly -- for eapleitez to call those people "prime time fools." I'm sure if he told us about some of the purchase decisions he's made in his life, even outside the AV domain, that some could find reason to call him a "prime-time fool."

WaldorfSalad

07-24-06, 01:09 PM

Will the 2930 do PAL-to-NTSC conversion like the 2910 has?
Does the 2910 have issues with 2:2 cadence for PAL like the Oppo 970 has?

PooperScooper

07-24-06, 01:37 PM

shane55

07-24-06, 01:53 PM

As I've said in the past, the best thing to do when you see a post that may not be appropriate or not quite right is to just ignore it - consider the source. No need to waste forum bandwidth with additional comments and sidetrack the discussion any further. If the post is in violation of forum rules, please report it and don't reply to it.
larry
Understood and agreed...
This troll-like post did raise a question that I thought was valid, regardless of how tactlessly and rudely it was stated.

The decision to buy an expensive piece of equipment at the end of a technology's cycle is something we all are grappling with, and is pertinent to this thread. It’s a decision that I am making, and so are most of the other posters here. I stated my reasons and he can take or leave them. In time I’ll be the only one deciding how foolish a move it might or might not have been. The negativity of the post did not affect me in any way. ;)

Cheers

shane

PooperScooper

07-24-06, 05:43 PM

I agree, but sometimes things can get ugly, fast. :)

larry

shane55

07-24-06, 05:54 PM

I agree, but sometimes things can get ugly, fast. :)

larry
Tru dat!

So back on topic...
So where the he11 are these old technology SD-DVD players anyway?! ;)
I want, I need!
Come on, let's get some expected in-store dates. :D

cheers

shane

bri1270

07-25-06, 06:12 AM

I might drop by Tweeter again today and see if they have an update. I was in there last week and their system was saying last week of July...which I'm hoping meant this week. I really don't want to spend this kind of money right now, but I don't think I'll be able to control myself once I actually see one. Sure HD stuff is tempting especially with all of the positive reviews on the upconversion abilities of the Toshiba players.

I would also like to see if Kris Deering is going to get his hands on one or both of these before I buy one.

I'll post this afternoon with any new information from Tweeter.

DJSloan

07-25-06, 11:29 PM

Shouldn't 3910s start going on sale soon to clear out inventory?

bri1270

07-26-06, 07:00 AM

I didn't have a chance to stop by Tweeter yesterday, but I did see a 1730 on ebay. Thought that was interesting.

venezolano

07-26-06, 08:13 AM

Rear panel looks great!!

http://www.denon.jp/products2/photolibrary/dvd3930_r.html

cheers

Spizz

07-26-06, 08:48 AM

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonDVD3930CI1080p.php

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 09:02 AM

Rear panel looks great!!

http://www.denon.jp/products2/photolibrary/dvd3930_r.html

cheers
No i.Link. 3910 has it.

larry

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 09:11 AM

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonDVD3930CI1080p.php
Interesting. A REON feature: "Key features of the new chip include no-compromise HQV TRUE 1080i-to-1080p de-interlacing, which uses the full four-field processing window for HD video de-interlacing and cadence detection, thus preserving the rich details in HD imagery." That's nice, but it wouldn't think it would be used in a DVD player. Also, the players will output PC resolutions: VGA, XGA, WXGA, SXGA.

larry

bri1270

07-26-06, 10:19 AM

Interesting. A REON feature: "Key features of the new chip include no-compromise HQV TRUE 1080i-to-1080p de-interlacing, which uses the full four-field processing window for HD video de-interlacing and cadence detection, thus preserving the rich details in HD imagery." That's nice, but it wouldn't think it would be used in a DVD player. Also, the players will output PC resolutions: VGA, XGA, WXGA, SXGA.

What are you getting at Larry, does this mean it's pretty much just fluff? I only ask because I'd like to buy one, but if I can get close to the same performance from an Oppo, I'll go that route for much less money.

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 11:06 AM

That's just one of its features. SD deinterlacing should be what the chip does better than other players. How well the other NR and "detail enchancment" features work remains to be seen. 1080i->1080p is only really necessary for 1080i content - HD broadcasts or HiDef discs mastered in 1080i - and you have a 1080p display with 1080p input capabilities. With SD, if you need 1080p, 480p->1080p would be the way to go. It's possible to go 480i->1080i according to Dale Adams, but deinterlacing is usually done first. The 1080i->1080p isn't fluff because it lets SO sell into the stb, external processor, and even the display markets also with the same chip. If the chip performs well, you wouldn't need 1080p output from a source device if this chip was in a 1080p display (and is capable of going in displays). 480i for SD and 1080i for HD.

larry

bri1270

07-26-06, 11:28 AM

Got it, Thanks Larry. It's a bit much to spend right now, so I think I'm a little leary and looking for reasons not to get one.

I'm using a PWD8UK so a lot of that upscaling stuff is sort of irrelevant to me, and there haven't been many good players in the last year or so that don't have the DCDi and the macroblocking issues that go along with it.

s2silber

07-26-06, 12:00 PM

What, if any, audio quality enhancements does the 3930CI offer over the 2930CI, or the 3910, for that matter?

steviec

07-26-06, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Spizz
http://www.audioholics.com/news/edi...3930CI1080p.php

The article states that both the 3930ci and 2930ci and available now!
anyone know where to buy one ? or who to contact?

bri1270

07-26-06, 12:42 PM

I called Tweeter and they said that they should have some in next week, and that they should have many more in by September.

BillP

07-26-06, 01:22 PM

What, if any, audio quality enhancements does the 3930CI offer over the 2930CI, or the 3910, for that matter?
I believe I saw somewhere that the 3930 uses the same audio DACs as the 3910 (which are better than those in the 2910 and I assume the 2930).

shane55

07-26-06, 03:15 PM

SledgeHammer

07-26-06, 04:12 PM

The DVD-3930CI, DVD-2930CI, and DVD-1930CI

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonDVD3930CI1080p.php

The DVD-3930CI & DVD-2930CI have both FINALLY dumped Faroudja. The DVD-3930 now uses the Realta HQV (the same scaler the DVD-5910 uses)! The DVD-2930 uses the REON VX scaler. The DVD-1930 uses the Faroudja FLI2301.

SledgeHammer

07-26-06, 04:19 PM

They also do full 1080P output, NICE!

Although super pricey ($1499MSRP) for a standard def DVD player, the 3930 looks kick ass with the Realta HQV chipset.

Does anyone know how the REON chipset in the 2930 ($849MSRP) looks compared to the Realta HQV?

BillP

07-26-06, 04:42 PM

There is already another thread on these new players, started a few months ago but still very active (including posts earlier today). You may want to just join in there.

BillP

07-26-06, 04:44 PM

My Denon receiver has the same BB-DACs as the 2930.

Just for discussion sake, would any other processing done (e.g. the 'Advanced AL24 Processing', etc.) allow the 2930 to actually sound better than my receiver fed via D-link?

So... bottom line, would the 2930 fed to my receiver via 6-ch analog cables sound better than if the signal were to be sent via D-link to my receiver?

Thoughts?

shane
If the DACs are the same, I doubt you'll hear any significant difference, analog vs digital connection. Using the 3910/3930, however, the analogs should sound better than digital due to the better DACs in the player.

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 04:50 PM

There is already another thread on these new players, started a few months ago but still very active (including posts earlier today). You may want to just join in there.
And join he did! Threads merged. No new threads for the players until somebody buys one.

First owner of any of the new players gets to start the "Owners thread". If we think you're fibbing - curtains! :)

larry

s2silber

07-26-06, 04:51 PM

If the DACs are the same, I doubt you'll hear any significant difference, analog vs digital connection. Using the 3910/3930, however, the analogs should sound better than digital due to the better DACs in the player.
So, if you've got the Denon AVR 3806, or any of the other Denon receivers that use the BB-PCM-1791, does that suggest that it would be better to go analog (EXT IN), for everything (DVD, SACD, DVD-A and CD) rather than using DenonLink?

Pete

07-26-06, 05:04 PM

My Plasma TV has a resolution of 1024x768. I like the fact that these players can output this exact resolution. I'm sure the HQV processor in either of these models trumps the TV's processor.

uzun

07-26-06, 05:06 PM

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 05:10 PM

My Plasma TV has a resolution of 1024x768. I like the fact that these players can output this exact resolution. I'm sure the HQV processor in either of these models trumps the TV's processor.
That is nice. The deinterlacer most certainly should be be better (judging from the Realta performance). I forgot about the 1024x768 pseudo-HD dispalys - no offense intended, but I don't consider anything HD that doesn't at least have 1280x720 resolution (source or display). 1024x768 is the popular 42" plasma resolution (non ED).

larry

PooperScooper

07-26-06, 05:13 PM

Going analog and avoiding the DACS on the receiver means you also avoid room correction. I've always found room correction more than trumps the sound quality advantage to using better DACS and going direct. If you have a perfect listening room, which almost no one has, you might find it advantageous to avoid the receivers dacs.
Some receivers/processors can do room correction on the analog inputs. The extra A/D and D/A (is it noticeable?) is worth it. The high end Elite receivers do it, I don't know about the Denons, or Yammy's or others. But you are correct, room tuning one way or another can make much bigger impact than small variances in DACs/parts.

larry

shane55

07-26-06, 06:44 PM

Servo1

07-27-06, 10:02 AM

I found this story on the front page of the forum this morning. Sounds very promising, and a couple of them are quite affordable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=703875

Tom

PooperScooper

07-27-06, 11:00 AM

Merged in another thread....

larry

bri1270

07-27-06, 11:05 AM

What's the thought on the 2930 using the component outs vs the oppo 970 using hdmi all either one at 480p?

snatch

07-27-06, 11:41 AM

I don't understand why anyone is going to pay upwards of $1500 for an SD DVD player, when HD players are now available for much less?

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 11:43 AM

I don't understand why anyone is going to pay upwards of $1500 for an SD DVD player, when HD players are now available for much less?Because the audio options on current HD players suck.

Kal

snatch

07-27-06, 11:50 AM

So I guess its a question of what you are more willing to sacrifice, PQ or AQ??

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 12:08 PM

So I guess its a question of what you are more willing to sacrifice, PQ or AQ??At this point, yes.

Kal

PooperScooper

07-27-06, 12:29 PM

I don't understand why anyone is going to pay upwards of $1500 for an SD DVD player, when HD players are now available for much less?Because some people will be watching SD DVDs for years to come and there is still room for improvement in SD DVD playback. Hopefully these new Denons and other new players will take it to the next level.

larry

bucky63

07-27-06, 12:52 PM

Therefore it sounds like the DVD-2930 connected via D-link to an AVR-3805/6 is the way to go regardless of the 'Advanced AL24 Processing' which is more likely than not just a marketing device. ;)

shane

If the 2930 outputs AL24 processed audio through the stereo analog outputs I might have to think about replacing my 3910 with the 2930 for the better video performance. IMO the AL24 processing does more for the CD audio quality then the DACs. The reason I say that is I definitely think the 3910 sounds better with the AL24 active (to turn off the 3910's AL24 processing, engage the Denon Link 3).

I'm not in a hurry to replace my 3910 so maybe I'll just sit back and see what others have say in their reviews. Plus I'll see where the HD/BR DVD players end up.

Do you think Denon will be able to hold these kind of prices for SD DVD players? I could see a price drop in six months if they are not selling well due to HD/BR.

PooperScooper

07-27-06, 01:01 PM

Do you think Denon will be able to hold these kind of prices for SD DVD players? I could see a price drop in six months if they are not selling well due to HD/BR. Time will tell. IMO the new Hidef players will have very little impact on anything for quite a while. Audio support is a no-show and the superior SD processing parts push costs even higher and won't be there for some time. Even so, players as "inexpensive" as $500 are not volume sellers - meaning not much "mass impact".

larry

Bill Misencik

07-27-06, 04:31 PM

suffolk112000

07-27-06, 04:32 PM

Do you think Denon will be able to hold these kind of prices for SD DVD players? I could see a price drop in six months if they are not selling well due to HD/BR.

I bet this will happen. :)
Why would you spend that much money on a SD player when you can have an HD-DVD player for less. I have the 2910 and have seen the Toshiba HD-DVD player up-convert standard DVD and it looks as good, if not better than my 2910.

Craig

bri1270

07-27-06, 04:37 PM

I'm all for a price drop, and a quick one at that...but I wouldn't bet on it.

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 04:50 PM

I bet this will happen. :)
Why would you spend that much money on a SD player when you can have an HD-DVD player for less. I have the 2910 and have seen the Toshiba HD-DVD player up-convert standard DVD and it looks as good, if not better than my 2910.
CraigAsked and answered on Posts 371 and 372.

Kal

Sam S

07-27-06, 06:55 PM

Asked and answered on Posts 371 and 372.

Kal

Kal, can we expect to see a review of a 3930 from you anytime in the near future?

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 07:05 PM

Kal, can we expect to see a review of a 3930 from you anytime in the near future?I am about to ask about it.

Kal

SledgeHammer

07-27-06, 07:11 PM

I can't believe the 3930 will not have I-link capability. With HDMI likey 1.1 on this machine it means that SACD will still need to be sent via 5.1 analog cables. I know denonlink is an option but not on my receiver(non-Denon). Maybe Denon will surprise us and say that this machine has HDMI 1.2 and all will be forgiven.

They don't have iLink because nobody cares about iLink (and nobody ever did) -- its a dead standard. Nobody cares about SACD and DVD-A either which is why Sony shut down the SACD arm. Now even if you have a few SACD discs, the fact is they are a tiny, tiny, tiny niche market that Sony has seen to discontinue. Without SACD and the equally poor selling (if not worse) DVD-A, there is really no reason to spend money on iLink.

As for HDMI 1.2, no all these new DVD players and AVRs from Denon are still HDMI 1.1 (according to the latest info I have). Its doubtful you'll ever see HDMI 1.2 on a CE device since its sole purpose in life was to add SACD and DVD-A support (which as I mentioned earlier, nobody cares about). It was also a stop gap version until 1.3 was ready, which it is now. 1.3 CE devices are expected by XMas.

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 07:24 PM

nicholas

07-27-06, 07:41 PM

The new Pioneer receivers (e.g. VSX-84TXSi) have HDMI 1.2.

HDMI 1.1 supports DVD-A.

Its doubtful you'll ever see HDMI 1.2 on a CE device since its sole purpose in life was to add SACD and DVD-A support (which as I mentioned earlier, nobody cares about). It was also a stop gap version until 1.3 was ready, which it is now. 1.3 CE devices are expected by XMas.

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 07:45 PM

The new Pioneer receivers (e.g. VSX-84TXSi) have HDMI 1.2. And what universal players will feed such an input? Pioneer?

Any chance of a pre/pro with 1.2? Doubtful as the leap (crawl) to 1.3 will take precedence.

HDMI 1.1 supports DVD-A.Not good enough. I have about 30-40 DVD-As but over 1000 SACDs (and still getting more).

Kal

soundlovr

07-27-06, 07:53 PM

As for HDMI 1.2, no all these new DVD players and AVRs from Denon are still HDMI 1.1 (according to the latest info I have). Its doubtful you'll ever see HDMI 1.2 on a CE device since its sole purpose in life was to add SACD and DVD-A support (which as I mentioned earlier, nobody cares about). It was also a stop gap version until 1.3 was ready, which it is now. 1.3 CE devices are expected by XMas.

"During a short question & answer period, HDMI was a hot topic. After Talmadge was asked when Denon would be putting version 1.3 in their products, he explained that version 1.2a is the current and latest version available. It allows for transmission of SACD, but requires the added expense of DSD in the equipment. The DVD forum has not finalized version 1.3, and even when it does, it will still need to be tested by manufacturers and then officially released. Dolby must also update their chipset. He expects all of this to happen no sooner than mid-2007. He was unsure at this point if current HDMI equipped Denon products would be able to be upgraded to 1.3, and will not know the answer to that until the spec is finalized." - Audioholics report.

=> I'm not sure if that implies that the new dvd-players are 1.2a or not... on first read i thought that's what it was trying to say. :confused:

SledgeHammer

07-27-06, 07:54 PM

And what universal players will feed such an input? Pioneer?

Any chance of a pre/pro with 1.2? Doubtful as the leap (crawl) to 1.3 will take precedence.

Not good enough. I have about 30-40 DVD-As but over 1000 SACDs (and still getting more).

Kal

You have 1000 SACDs??? WTF!?!? :).... I don't think I have more then 20 DVDs period. I never saw much point in collecting movies since I could rent said movie about 5 times before covering the cost of buying it.

I did have a short lived dream of building a hard drive based movie jukebox system last year, but there just arent any cool front-ends except the Kaliedescape system which is like $50,000 or something crazy like that. Besides, a TB would only hold about 200 movies in SD or 20 to 30 movies in HD.

Kal Rubinson

07-27-06, 08:13 PM

You have 1000 SACDs??? WTF!?!? :).... I don't think I have more then 20 DVDs period. I never saw much point in collecting movies since I could rent said movie about 5 times before covering the cost of buying it.I agree with you. I never buy DVDs (and I rarely rent one more than once). Movies are disposable, imho, but music is immortal. :D

Kal

gostan

07-27-06, 08:26 PM

I have about 30-40 DVD-As but over 1000 SACDs (and still getting more). KalDo you want to purchase my 7 DVD-A's and 47 SACD's? I am really back into vinyl and 2 channel cd's. Other than some classical stuff, surround music other than concert films makes little sense to me

By the way, Kal, do you use a universal player or a dedicated SACD player for a majority of your listening. I have never really understood the hoopla over universal players. Put too much into one box and something else has to suffer (even if its' a Denon 5910).

Steve Siener

07-27-06, 08:35 PM

I agree with you. I never buy DVDs (and I rarely rent one more than once). Movies are disposable, imho, but music is immortal. :D

Kal
To each his own, but I love both and collect both. There is sublime art to be appreciated in both. I watch many of my Criterions over and over again. To me the content is the overriding factor. That's why I could only watch Fifth Element once -- barely -- regardless of how good the video looks. It's also why I wonder about all those folks who say it's "game over" for SD. Don't they enjoy the content in movies? Or is it all about eye candy? The 2930 and 3930 promise to make the most of all that content we have now (NetFlix says it carries 60,000 titles). I'm personally very interested in that since I will be renting SD titles and watching movies from my SD collection for years to come and am very unlikely to update (or even find) many of my titles in HD in the near future.

SledgeHammer

07-27-06, 09:17 PM

To each his own, but I love both and collect both. There is sublime art to be appreciated in both. I watch many of my Criterions over and over again. To me the content is the overriding factor. That's why I could only watch Fifth Element once -- barely -- regardless of how good the video looks. It's also why I wonder about all those folks who say it's "game over" for SD. Don't they enjoy the content in movies? Or is it all about eye candy? The 2930 and 3930 promise to make the most of all that content we have now (NetFlix says it carries 60,000 titles). I'm personally very interested in that since I will be renting SD titles and watching movies from my SD collection for years to come and am very unlikely to update (or even find) many of my titles in HD in the near future.

I love movies too... music I just DL off the net, but I'm too impatient to do that with movies. Either way, with movies, with very few exceptions, I can only watch a movie I LOVE 2 or 3 times. Die Hard 1 & 2, Terminator 2 and Ferris Buelers Day Off are probably the only movies I've seen into the double digits.

Sorry, I think this is getting off topic LOL... back to the Denon DVD-2930 & DVD-3930, I bet they'll make Terminator 2 look really good LOL!

DigiPete

07-27-06, 09:40 PM

plazman

07-27-06, 09:50 PM

Because the audio options on current HD players suck.

Kal

I'm interested in hearing your opinion why you believe the audio options on HD players suck. So far I've been very impressed with HD audio on the Tosh :confused:

I spent several hours with a friend who did an A-B comparison between his Tosh A-1 and Denon 3910 and came away giving the edge for both PQ and AQ to the Tosh...but I guess these things are personal choices. And it's always interesting when you see someone like Denon releasing a $1,500+ SD DVD player at the same time that BD and HD DVD players with excellent DVD playback are being released.

adhoag

07-27-06, 10:49 PM

They don't have iLink because nobody cares about iLink (and nobody ever did) -- its a dead standard. Nobody cares about SACD and DVD-A either which is why Sony shut down the SACD arm. Now even if you have a few SACD discs, the fact is they are a tiny, tiny, tiny niche market that Sony has seen to discontinue. Without SACD and the equally poor selling (if not worse) DVD-A, there is really no reason to spend money on iLink.

While I can't argue with the fact that SACD is a niche product, so are DVD players that cost $850 and $1500. :) And I suspect there's at least some overlap between these niches. Denon must think there's at least enough overlap to support SACD on these players. I guess they must figure that most of those people that care about this also have Denon receivers and can use DenonLink, so it's not worth it to them to add iLink for those of us not in the Denon receiver camp. My preference would be for support for a standard interface (even a dead one!) over a proprietary one that does basically the same thing but locks you into an all-Denon solution. But again, I can't disagree with you that the number of people who care about this is quite small -- and I'll second the hope expressed by others that maybe they will implement HDMI 1.2 in these players which would accomplish the same thing (essentially), at least for anyone who has the bought the latest group of Pioneer Elite receivers that include HDMI 1.2.

SledgeHammer

07-27-06, 11:24 PM

I honestly have no clue why they make a $1500 DVD player now or ever. Just like I have no clue why they would make a $3800 DVD player or a $5000 AVR. A niche market or audiophile market is one thing, but thats excessive in any case. I doubt people who buy these players do it for the SACD. They just want the best DVD playback possible for video and audio even when most people wont see or hear a difference between the DVD-5910 and a DVD-1910. But in regards to SACD, its no longer a niche market, its a dead market. If the people who came up with the damn thing are no longer supporting it, I doubt others will after a while. I think music will forever be stuck in the 2.0 realm just as DVD movies have been stuck in the 5.1 realm.

I wouldn't pay a premium for HDMI 1.2 at this point, but I would for HDMI 1.3 and a 1080p plasma or a GOOD BluRay/HD-DVD player.

I was originally going to plunk down for a DVD-3910, but now I'm holding off til this stuff gets to a "stable point". The RealtaHQV chip is a nice selling point, since it'll get rid of the macro blocking issues.

SledgeHammer

07-27-06, 11:30 PM

I'm interested in hearing your opinion why you believe the audio options on HD players suck. So far I've been very impressed with HD audio on the Tosh :confused:

I spent several hours with a friend who did an A-B comparison between his Tosh A-1 and Denon 3910 and came away giving the edge for both PQ and AQ to the Tosh...but I guess these things are personal choices. And it's always interesting when you see someone like Denon releasing a $1,500+ SD DVD player at the same time that BD and HD DVD players with excellent DVD playback are being released.

I think the issue is (well, for me at least) is that I dont respect Toshiba, Samsung and Sony as producing quality gear at this point. Most people who plunk down $1k for a CE device probably dont think much of Toshiba and Samsung either. Just IMO on that one :). For me, respectable companies at this point are Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite (although I hate the glossy finish) and Panasonic for plasmas.

DGWS

07-28-06, 01:04 AM

HI All,

Does any one know when the 3930 is coming to Australia, and how much it might be ?
thanks

shane55

07-28-06, 01:53 AM

But the 3805/6 has AL24+ processing as well! So you loose nothing :)
Ha! That's just great. D-link all the way baby! :D

shane

Spizz

07-28-06, 02:06 AM

HI All,

Does any one know when the 3930 is coming to Australia, and how much it might be ?
thanks

August/September and $2999 AUS.

BillP

07-28-06, 10:07 AM

I honestly have no clue why they make a $1500 DVD player now or ever. ....... But in regards to SACD, its no longer a niche market, its a dead market.
They clearly make it because enough people buy it to make it worth their while (if they couldn't make money with it, they wouldn't make it, pure and simple).

Considering they keep coming out with quality SACD titles, I do not agree that it is dead. Yes, the market is not huge, but as long as they keep making and selling them, it's not dead either.

Since I bought my 3910 2 years ago, I have gotten good use out of it already, and plan to enjoy it for the next 1-2 years, until GOOD high def players are out there. I'd gladly pay $1500 yet again for a Denon BD/HD player with SACD down the road. Since I have no MB problems with my 3910 and my display, I would agree with you that upgrading it to a 3930 at this point in time would not be the best use of my $$.

Kal Rubinson

07-28-06, 10:50 AM

By the way, Kal, do you use a universal player or a dedicated SACD player for a majority of your listening. I have never really understood the hoopla over universal players. Put too much into one box and something else has to suffer (even if its' a Denon 5910).I have a universal player and a dedicated SACD player in each system.

Kal

Kal Rubinson

07-28-06, 10:54 AM

I'm interested in hearing your opinion why you believe the audio options on HD players suck. So far I've been very impressed with HD audio on the Tosh :confused:My interests are primarily in audio; video is secondary to me. So, no SACD, no DVD-A and, afaik, no music only in the new formats. It may change. I may change.

Kal

Milt99

07-28-06, 11:28 AM

most people wont see or hear a difference between the DVD-5910 and a DVD-1910 I'm not that picky video-wise, but I can tell a great deal of difference between my former 5900 and my 5910 on my 30 inch 1080i, 16:9 crt.
On a big screen the difference is far more apparent.

I knew that buying the 5910 was "loser" of sorts but for me the clincher was the audio section and it's support of all 3 formats. I am more than satisfied with its performance on all levels.
As Kal said earlier that may change in future depending whether any studios decide to release music on the 2 lossless codecs supported by HD players.

Maybe we'll get DVD-A in quantity afterall. :)

suffolk112000

07-28-06, 01:06 PM

Time will tell. IMO the new Hidef players will have very little impact on anything for quite a while. Audio support is a no-show and the superior SD processing parts push costs even higher and won't be there for some time. Even so, players as "inexpensive" as $500 are not volume sellers - meaning not much "mass impact".

larry

I wouldn't say that.
True, the first Toshiba HD-DVD players had audio problems, but I believe they have the issue corrected. The first Toshiba's had terrible surround sound coming from the rear speakers.
I just don't see spending $500+ on a SD-DVD player when the HD-DVD players do such a great job of up-converting.
My Denon 2910 has been less than impressive from a dependability stand point.
My first player had slow loads and sometimes didn't load a disc at all. :( So I sent it back and got a replacement. Now the replacement 2910 does not push the signal through my 30ft cable run that my first one had no problem doing. I have been told that mid production year, Denon started using different parts in their player. Apparently this change has had some affect on my situation. :( So I have to ask, is this fraud? Denon sends their players out for review when they are first released to achieve a certain benchmark score. Now, midstream, they change some of the innards of the player.
If you ask me, this is fraud. Do you suppose Denon no longer uses those earlier bench mark scores??
I bet they do.

Craig

kendelahoussaye

07-28-06, 01:11 PM

I will be getting the 3930 when it arrives, for a couple of reasons. I want a really nice SD player that can do SACD/DVD-A. I want a player that does excelent upscaling for a reasonable price(I get Denon stuff for a nice price, so it's not as much of a plunge for me). I, like some other members here, am not going to be any early adopter of either HD format. I am holding out for at least gen. 2 players and more movies(oh and better ones too). So, I figure this player will hold me over for at least a few years when it comes to SD movies, and a lot longer for CD/SACD/DVD-A, that is unless Denon has a universal player comming out down the line(BR or HD with the above mentioned audio), it's only a matter of time I guess.

PooperScooper

07-28-06, 01:20 PM

I wouldn't say that.
True, the first Toshiba HD-DVD players had audio problems, but I believe they have the issue corrected. The first Toshiba's had terrible surround sound coming from the rear speakers.
I just don't see spending $500+ on a SD-DVD player when the HD-DVD players do such a great job of up-converting.
Denon and other companies aren't clueless, even though they might seem to be sometimes. :) If, and when, they feel the new gen HD players are impacting their bottom line, they'll make changes. So far, they have nothing to worry about and nothing is going to change in the near future. The A1 does a very good job with SD DVDs, but there are better players and the new Denons should raise the bar higher. But the other aspects of the A1 - at any price - make it a non-issue. (From a useability standpoint it's a POS).

larry

suffolk112000

07-28-06, 02:40 PM

Denon and other companies aren't clueless, even though they might seem to be sometimes. :) If, and when, they feel the new gen HD players are impacting their bottom line, they'll make changes. So far, they have nothing to worry about and nothing is going to change in the near future. The A1 does a very good job with SD DVDs, but there are better players and the new Denons should raise the bar higher. But the other aspects of the A1 - at any price - make it a non-issue. (From a useability standpoint it's a POS).

larry

I'll be interested to see "how much better" these new players are.
I would bet the difference will be very minimal at best from the performance of the previous 2910, 3910 and 5910's.
Better yet, how much better video will these new SD-DVD players achieve over what the current HD-DVD players produce with a SD DVD?

Right now, all I am reading is a bunch of hype.
I have seen what the Toshiba can do and I would trade my 2910 for an un-opened HD-DVD player in a heartbeat. ;)

Sure Denon players put out a superb picture. But they are like a temperamental flashy sports car. When they run, nothing can keep up. But when they act up, they are a piece of crap. My 2910 is not the only one I have seen have issues. I know another person who has a 2910 and they have issues with theirs as well.

Craig

BillP

07-28-06, 04:13 PM

I'll be interested to see "how much better" these new players are.
I would bet the difference will be very minimal at best from the performance of the previous 2910, 3910 and 5910's.
Better yet, how much better video will these new SD-DVD players achieve over what the current HD-DVD players produce with a SD DVD?
If you think the Tosh is better than the 5910 for SD DVDs, then these new players are clearly not for you. The 3930 will match up well to the 5910, but will not surpass it. I don't know what you mean by "hype." Professional reviews have claimed the 5910 has better PQ than any other player out there, bar none (for SD DVDs). Please don't make any judgements based on your 2910. Many people like the build and audio of the Denons, and I for one am waiting for the high def formats to provide SACD support and both HD/BD support. Talking about "temperamental" players, the Tosh has its share of problem posts.

Don't get me wrong, the Tosh is a great value for what you get (HD-DVD capability and excellent upscaling of SD DVDs), but that doesn't mean the Denons are "crap."

suffolk112000

07-28-06, 08:23 PM

If you think the Tosh is better than the 5910 for SD DVDs, then these new players are clearly not for you. The 3930 will match up well to the 5910, but will not surpass it. I don't know what you mean by "hype." Professional reviews have claimed the 5910 has better PQ than any other player out there, bar none (for SD DVDs). Please don't make any judgements based on your 2910. Many people like the build and audio of the Denons, and I for one am waiting for the high def formats to provide SACD support and both HD/BD support. Talking about "temperamental" players, the Tosh has its share of problem posts.

Don't get me wrong, the Tosh is a great value for what you get (HD-DVD capability and excellent upscaling of SD DVDs), but that doesn't mean the Denons are "crap."

I am not saying the Denons are ALL crap. I own the 2910. I also must say that when I bought the 2910, I felt it was the best bang for the buck in it's price range. I just question their dependability. The problem I have with them is that half the people I know that have the 2910 and 3910 have had some sort of issue that required sending the unit in for repair.
Yea... lets compare a 3K+ 5910 to the $500 Toshiba when comparing SD DVD's. I would hope it handled SD DVD's better than the Toshiba. Of course I got a better idea. I will put in some HD-DVD's in the player and then lets see how the picture compares to the 5910... which is my point. ;)
I think the better match-up is between the Toshiba and the 2910 and 3910 for SD DVD's since the 3910 only MSRP's for three times the Toshiba's price and the 2910 MSRP's for several hundred more..
When I bought my 2910 about one year ago, HD-DVD and BD were only "what if's" in the industry. If I were in the market for a new higher end player... it would be the Toshiba.

Craig

Kevin C Brown

07-28-06, 08:34 PM

I'll be interested to see "how much better" these new players are.
I would bet the difference will be very minimal at best from the performance of the previous 2910, 3910 and 5910's.

I think that you will be surprised. Just for the 3930, Faroudja is gone, so there will be no more macroblocking for people with susceptible displays.

Plus, the explanation I heard for the increase in layer change delay from the 2900 to the 3910, even though both have buffers, was the Faroudja processing in the 3910.

So there's the hope that the layer change on the 3930 will be as good as the 2900. Which is among the best there is.

Goldorak

07-28-06, 11:25 PM

DavidHir

07-29-06, 02:34 AM

Just curious...has anyone firsthand ever been able to compare the Denon 3910 to the 5910? Aside from test patterns and assuming you get no MB from the 3910, was the 5910 image quality THAT much better?

PooperScooper

07-29-06, 08:13 AM

Look in the 5910 owners thread. Kris owns a 5910 and previously had a 3910, IIRC. You can't linearly equate performance gains with price increases. It's always diminishing returns. You have to decide whether or not the performance benefits are worth the extra money.

larry

PooperScooper

07-29-06, 08:21 AM

What do you guys think would look best:

2930CI upconvert SD-DVD to 720p connected to a Pioneer 5070
- OR -
2930CI no SD-DVD conversion (480i) connected to a Pioneer 5070

2930CI upconvert SD-DVD to 1080p connected to the forthcoming Panasonic 50PZ600 (it's a 1080p native PDP)
- OR -
2930 no SD-DVD conversion (480i) connected to the forthcoming Panasonic 50PZ600 (it's a 1080p native PDP)

In short, is the scaler better in those PDP or in the Denon? And is it NOTICEABLE? I have read other threads and several people say that feeding a 480i signal is best on some PDP (e.g. 5070) because of the quality of their scalers. If that is the case, then I'd rather spend 150$ on the Oppo 970 than 850$ on the Denon (both can output 480i) if image quality is similar (they probably sound different, but that's another story...)

Thanks.
Nobody has used the new Denon players or the new Pio or Panny plasma. My crystal ball is in the shop for repairs. :) If you want 480i output via HDMI, get an Oppo 970HD, not need to spend the extra money on the new players with the (most likely) better deinterlacers. And the deinterlacers in the new players will most likely be better than the ones in the new plasmas.

larry

DavidHir

07-29-06, 02:59 PM

You can't linearly equate performance gains with price increases. It's always diminishing returns. You have to decide whether or not the performance benefits are worth the extra money.

larry

I totally agree.

umberto eco

07-29-06, 03:22 PM

Plus, the explanation I heard for the increase in layer change delay from the 2900 to the 3910, even though both have buffers, was the Faroudja processing in the 3910.

So there's the hope that the layer change on the 3930 will be as good as the 2900. Which is among the best there is.

Considering the 5910 uses the same processing as the forthcoming 3930 (ie. non Faroudja) and has the same layer change performance as the 3910, I find that very doubtful.

The 2900 uses a Mitsubishi decoder whereas the *910 series use the ESS decoder. Unless the ESS decoder performance has been improved I would predict the layer change will be the same.

PooperScooper

07-29-06, 05:33 PM

I would have thought that the buffer size would be key - have enough to keep the video processing busy while the player finds the data to read during the layer change. However, the 2900 and 3910 use 8mb buffers. There goes that theory. :)

larry

Milt99

07-29-06, 08:13 PM

PQ 3910 vs. 5910.
I previously owned a 5900 which video-wise I believe is equivalent to 3910 and later bought a 5910.
Questions like "Is the xxxx performance worth the $$$?"
or as in this case "that much better?" are impossible to quantify for someone else.

For me the improved PQ of 5910 vs the 5900 was worth it and I'm not that ultra-particular but the difference is obvious and it is obvious on every disc I watch and it is obvious on a 30" crt or a 96" FP screen.

A little OT, but I also bought the 5910 for the audio. There the improvement is not as great but it is still there. For the money, the 5910 design and build quality is in a class by itself.

If certain things can be assumed, the 3930 should be an excellent player.

suffolk112000

07-29-06, 11:36 PM

I am looking forward to seeing these dvd players in action. From what is being said in this thread, they should produce an incredible picture.
Isn't speculation great. :)

Craig

c722

07-30-06, 01:02 AM

The 2900 uses a Mitsubishi decoder whereas the *910 series use the ESS decoder. Unless the ESS decoder performance has been improved I would predict the layer change will be the same.

so does anyone know which decoder the *930 series use ?

umberto eco

07-30-06, 10:00 AM

Bill Mac

07-30-06, 03:22 PM

according to this (http://www.avland.co.uk/denon/dvd3930/dvd3930.htm) it's the ESS again.

Though whether the 3:2 Alt Flag chroma error will be fixed or if the layer change will be seamless remains to be seen.

The avland specs might not be right, as it states that the 3930 has i-link which it does not have. I do not understand why Denon decided not to include i-link as the 3910 has it. I was going to check out the 3930 but without i-link to go with my 74txvi, I will stick with the 79avi.

Bill

s2silber

07-30-06, 03:53 PM

BillP

07-30-06, 03:59 PM

In what way will the audio on the '3930 be better than the audio on the '2930? I know that the '3930 will use the BB 1796 DAC, and the 2930 will use the '1791, but isn't that only a factor when using the player's analog outputs, i.e., EXT. IN, if you've got a Denon receiver?
If you use your receiver's audio DACs, then they should sound the same. But if you use the player's DACs, the 2900 sounded better than the 2200, the 2910 and 2930 use the same DACs as the 2200, and the 3910 and 3930 use even better DACs than the 2900. Thus, I have no doubt the 3930 will sound better than the 2930 (whether the better sound is worth the difference in price is an individual decision). Yes, there are other factors in audio, but the DACs are certainly very important.

a_ok2me

07-30-06, 10:48 PM

The avland specs might not be right, as it states that the 3930 has i-link which it does not have. I do not understand why Denon decided not to include i-link as the 3910 has it. I was going to check out the 3930 but without i-link to go with my 74txvi, I will stick with the 79avi.

BillI thought the Denon Link isn't or might not be compatible with the Pioneer. I would think this makes it easier to go with the 79avi.

bri1270

07-31-06, 05:53 AM

How long will it be before 1024X768 is considered ED?

I'm pretty sure Denon Link only works with Denon equipment.

PooperScooper

07-31-06, 06:50 AM

I'm pretty sure Denon Link only works with Denon equipment.
Definitely only with Denon.

larry

bri1270

07-31-06, 07:06 AM

I have got to start previewing my posts...did this How long will it be before 1024X768 is considered ED? have anything to do with Denon link...sheesh!!

Bill Mac

07-31-06, 01:59 PM

Definitely only with Denon.

larry

Larry,

What are your thoughts on the 3930 not having i-link. I tend to think that Denon is trying to steer more people toward their receivers but that may not be the reason.

Bill

s2silber

07-31-06, 02:07 PM

...Yes, there are other factors in audio, but the DACs are certainly very important.
And in the case of these particular players (2930 vs. 3930), what are those other factors?

BillP

07-31-06, 03:53 PM

And in the case of these particular players (2930 vs. 3930), what are those other factors?
For example, the 3910 (and I'm sure the 3930) provide better isolation of the power supply than the 2910. But, IMO, the DACs are the most important factor. The quality of the analog wires are important as well, independent of the player.

s2silber

07-31-06, 05:04 PM

PooperScooper

07-31-06, 05:16 PM

Larry,

What are your thoughts on the 3930 not having i-link. I tend to think that Denon is trying to steer more people toward their receivers but that may not be the reason.

Bill
I don't thinks it's too big a deal. i.Link isn't free. Maybe Denon decided to cut some costs. You can't fault a company for trying to keep things in the family. The i.Link and Denon link market is very small compared to the overall player market and I don't think that either will be the defacto connect like S/PDIF is now. Too bad. Few receiver/processors have it. Looks like HDMI is destined to be the "universal" interconnect for A/V.

larry

shane55

07-31-06, 05:23 PM

So, then, if you're me, currently using the Denon DVD 2900 and the Denon AVR 3806, and you'd like to use DenonLink for all your audio, and you want some improvement in video, if not the very best available SD since you'd ultimately like to get a universal BRD/HD-DVD, then you save some money and get the 2930 for now. Thoughts?
Well... not that I'm an expert in any way, and I've been juggling with the same issues... I'll probably go with the 2930 for these very reasons.

shane

BillP

07-31-06, 06:46 PM

So, then, if you're me, currently using the Denon DVD 2900 and the Denon AVR 3806, and you'd like to use DenonLink for all your audio, and you want some improvement in video, if not the very best available SD since you'd ultimately like to get a universal BRD/HD-DVD, then you save some money and get the 2930 for now. Thoughts?
I'm waiting for a later generation, hopefully a universal high def player, myself. The more expensive 3930 should match the PQ of the 5910, currently considered the best SD player, bar none. The 2930 uses a different chip which I believe is a new chip, so nobody can really predict how PQ will compare vs the 3930 or 2900 (or Tosh).

QuadESL63

07-31-06, 06:57 PM

I don't thinks it's too big a deal. i.Link isn't free. Maybe Denon decided to cut some costs. You can't fault a company for trying to keep things in the family. The i.Link and Denon link market is very small compared to the overall player market and I don't think that either will be the defacto connect like S/PDIF is now. Too bad. Few receiver/processors have it. Looks like HDMI is destined to be the "universal" interconnect for A/V.

larry

Agree... however, the lack of i.Link audio output is a deal breaker for me (I have an Elite 59TXi). I will stick with my 3910 (or get a Marantz DV9600 if I got an upgrade bug suddenly :D 5910 is just too rich for my blood for now) for SACD and DVD-A.

steviec

07-31-06, 10:54 PM

So I am wondering what the differences are between the HQV chip in the 5910 and 3910 compared to the new Reon chip used in the 2910.
Did they just take the items needed that they were using in the teranex chip and make the Reon specifically for dvd?
If so does this mean buying the 3910 is a waste of money cause you are only paying for extras on the terenex chip which will not be used and slightly better Burr Brown dacs in the 3910?
$600 more just for the dacs and the ability to scale to some computer resolutions?

DJSloan

08-01-06, 01:12 AM

The 2930CI was just posted to the Denon US website along with the owners manual.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3262.asp

Does anyone know if the 2930 and 3930 will be firmware upgradeable? I assume so.

bri1270

08-01-06, 05:46 AM

The 2930CI was just posted to the Denon US website along with the owners manual.

It's about time.

AudioSteve

08-01-06, 08:30 PM

The 2930CI was just posted to the Denon US website along with the owners manual.

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3262.asp

According to the pictures on the Denon US site the 3910 uses "AL 24 Processing Plus". The 3930CI uses "Advanced AL Processing", the same used in the 5910 and 5910CI players.

I wonder what sort of audio improvements we will see in the 3930.

a_ok2me

08-02-06, 02:40 AM

The Rang

08-02-06, 02:56 AM

Has anyone noticed that on both new models the "Pure Direct Select" buttons are no longer on the front panel?
Hope they haven't eliminated this feature.

Edit: Checked the 2930CI OM. The feature is still there; button is on the remote :)

CycloneMike

08-02-06, 08:47 AM

Edit: Checked the 2930CI OM. The feature is still there; button is on the remote :)

Bravo! This (along with the ability to change SACD settings) has long been a request of Denon DVD owners to be provided on the remote.

bucky63

08-02-06, 11:20 AM

Two interesting features I see are the Auto Squeeze Mode and the Audio/Video Sync in the Video setup menu.

s2silber

08-02-06, 11:40 AM

Okay, so any availability sightings yet?

PooperScooper

08-02-06, 11:46 AM

Okay, so any availability sightings yet?Crutchfield has no date. They usually get things pretty quickly.

larry

bri1270

08-02-06, 12:07 PM

I was told August 9th at Tweeter.

bri1270

08-02-06, 12:11 PM

Per the manual, squeeze mode: "Off (upon purchase) - The picture is displayed over the entire 16:9 screen, regardless of the original image ize."

Does that mean that reardless of the aspect ratio, the screen is filled. For example, if it's a 2:35:1 AR, it won't be letterboxed?

shane55

08-02-06, 12:39 PM

I was told August 9th at Tweeter.
Oh yeah baby... let this be true and I'll have one for my B-day! :D

shane

ADGrant

08-02-06, 01:21 PM

bri1270

08-02-06, 01:35 PM

I'm not confusing them, I'm asking if it defaults to a non-letterboxed scaled format. From reading the manual it appears that way, but maybe I'm wrong...which is why I'm asking.

bucky63

08-02-06, 02:40 PM

Squeeze Mode off means any 4:3 format material will be stretched across the screen of any format, 16:9 or 4:3. Squeeze Mode On means the player will squeeze the picture 25% in the horizontal direction regardless of screen format i.e. 4:3 box of a 16:9 screen.

Auto means it should determine automatically when outputting to a 16:9 screen (as setup in the Video menu) any 4:3 format video material (some menu screens, non-anamorphic video and almost all DVD extras) will be displayed correctly in a 4:3 window of the 16:9 screen. Note, non-anamorphic 16:9 video still needs to be zoomed up at the display to fill a 16:9 screen.

Most DVD players have done this automatically for years. The 2910 and 3910 did not and was a major complaint of their owners.

bri1270

08-02-06, 03:04 PM

Thanks for the thorough explanation...much apprieciated

The Rang

08-02-06, 03:19 PM

Just talked to Denon Canada.

They are aiming for an Aug.13 release date for the 2930 and 3930 but that's their receipt at the the border.

I'm sure we'll need to allow another week or so to see them in stores.

bri1270

08-02-06, 05:16 PM

I think I might just go in and order one from Tweeter so I can pick it up next week when they arrive.

Scott_R_K

08-02-06, 08:13 PM

bri1270

08-02-06, 09:34 PM

Could the "OFF" mode also allow for vertical stretching of 2.35:1 AR's for use with CH applications
This was what I was trying to get at.

s2silber

08-04-06, 01:42 PM

So, the 2930's are in stock at ******* now. Can't wait to get some reviews.

http://www.*******.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=12-53%2c6-536&menu=true&id=32998

s2silber

08-04-06, 01:44 PM

Sorry, didn't know it would do that. But there is One place where you can Call for it.

PooperScooper

08-04-06, 01:47 PM

Looks like there's a filter. I didn't do it and it won't be me knocking on your door.... :)

larry

shane55

08-04-06, 03:24 PM

Sorry, didn't know it would do that. But there is One place where you can Call for it.
That's good news.
I would have assumed that 'the Crutch' would have had them as early as anyone else, but we'll have to wait for them to trickle in.

Anyone bold enough to make that One Call to order one?

shane

cwichura

08-04-06, 04:19 PM

cgrfce

08-04-06, 05:05 PM

It is certainly a possiblilty. Look what they did to the 4806 market when they introduced the 4306... I really enjoy my 4806, but would have really liked to have the scaler on the 4306. I probably would have opted for it if it was available when I was in the market. Go figure.

ADGrant

08-04-06, 05:09 PM

Could the "OFF" mode also allow for vertical stretching of 2.35:1 AR's for use with CH applications ? This would expand (pun intended) the available products that will do this cheaply . :p

Scott............... :)

No. Off mode is going to assume all material is in 16:9 format. A 2.35:1 movie on a widescreen DVD will be displayed correctly on a 16:9 TV, the same movie on a 4:3 DVD will be stretch horizontally. The image would need to be zoomed.

DJSloan

08-05-06, 02:47 AM

PooperScooper

08-05-06, 09:07 AM

The 5910 is at least a year old also and most likely has better audio. Yes, it is still being made, but price vs performance is an individual thing.

larry

bri1270

08-05-06, 10:29 AM

I'm still trying to decide on whether or not I should get the Oppo 970 or the 2930CI. I'm only running 480p to an ED plasma, so I would guess it wouldn't make too much of a difference as far as video is concerned...but who knows!

Cain

08-05-06, 11:14 AM

A word of advice guys.

I have bene an early adopted of the last three generations of upper-end Denon DVD players.

Here comes the advice. Wait about 1-2 months, let others be the guinea pigs on the first wave of players.

-- Cain

PS I am a happy 3910 owner, my only complaints are stretching 4:3 to 16:9 and ti is sooooooo dammmmmnnnnn slllloooowwwwwww..

I would also like 480i output.

cgrfce

08-05-06, 01:59 PM

Better advice cannot be offered. But how else can consumers know the issues that surround each new product than when end users buy, then identify the "new" problems. It's almost like we are buying Beta products.

BillP

08-05-06, 03:47 PM

A word of advice guys.

I have bene an early adopted of the last three generations of upper-end Denon DVD players.

Here comes the advice. Wait about 1-2 months, let others be the guinea pigs on the first wave of players.
I'm not sure I follow. I bought one of the first 3910's out. It turns out that this was a very wise decision since later ones had BTB problems. And firmware upgrades took care of any other problems or hiccups. Thus buying early actually worked well for me.

BillP

08-05-06, 03:50 PM

From the stuff I've read about the 3930, it looks very similar to the 5910CI. Does anyone have a list of the real differences between them? Is Denon really killing the market for the 5910CI with the 3930?
Denon does this all the time. The 3910 was actually better than the 5900 for video, for a lot less $$. So what did Denon do? They replaced the 5900 with the 5910. Having the 3930 come out with the same video performance as the 5910, for less $$, therefore does not surprise me in the least. They'll probably either replace the 5910 with an even better player, or just kill the 5910 and replace it with a true high def player (HD or BD) next year.

bri1270

08-06-06, 09:48 PM

Tweeter has 40 of the 2930's in their main Chicago warehouse right now. I was going to get one, but I was told to wait for a sale that's coming on the 18th.

steviec

08-07-06, 04:19 PM

Paul Curtis

08-07-06, 05:06 PM

Y'know, for a moment there, I was really psyched about upgrading to the new 3930CI. Although the Faroudja deinterlacer in my 3910 is capable of some very nice pictures, it often has trouble with the sort of hybrid PAL (mixed film/video) material that I spend a lot of time watching: Specifically, it can be very slow in detecting film-to-video transitions, and when a frame contains mixed content (i.e., video superimposed on film or vice-versa), it tends to treat the entire frame as film (so the video bits suffer from combing and reduced temporal resolution). I gather that the Realta HQV should do a much better job of dealing with such material. What's more, the 3930CI can output PC resolutions, so I could have 1:1 pixel mapping with my XGA projector (NEC HT1100)--no external scaler or HTPC required! Hooray!

...but then I saw this quote from the user's manual, upthread:

XGA: The signal is converted into a dissolution of 1024 x 768 (60 cycles per second).
So when outputting XGA, all PAL discs will have to undergo frame-rate conversion?!? Forget that!

If Denon would permit XGA output at 50hz (or 100hz), they'd have a guaranteed sale. Perhaps this could be addressed by a future firmware upgrade? If not, then I guess I'll just have to keep saving up for a Vantage-HD or something similar...

:(

--Paul Curtis

Kal Rubinson

08-07-06, 05:26 PM

...but then I saw this quote from the user's manual, upthread:

Quote:XGA: The signal is converted into a dissolution of 1024 x 768 (60 cycles per second).

To their credit, they did say dissolution. ;-)

Kal

Paul Curtis

08-07-06, 05:37 PM

To their credit, they did say dissolution. ;-)
They obviously anticipated my disillusion!

Either that, or the Denon engineers are a particularly dissolute bunch... :p

--Paul Curtis

PooperScooper

08-07-06, 05:52 PM

Did they mention 50Hz for the other resolutions? It's odd they would restrict the resolution when they can do it for others. Have to wait and see. I wouldn't go 100% by the docs.

larry

PooperScooper

08-07-06, 05:54 PM

Can someone verify this for me?
I was reading thru both the 2930 & 3930 manuals about changing the resolution and they both state that it is automatic depending on your display.
I took this that even if you want to just have 480p output and your projector is native 720p the player will default to 720p with no way to output 1080i,1080p,480p.It is all display dependent and automatic.
I read no where that the resolution could be chosen manually.I would hope it has a manual setting. When connected to a DVI device they won't know. Actually I think it may be current setting of the DVI input that can be "sensed". One player I had connected via HDMI worked that way IIRC.

larry

steviec

08-07-06, 06:44 PM

The Rang

08-07-06, 07:28 PM

My Hitachi has a native resolution of 720P.

So, if I understand correctly, if I choose "Panel Resolution" on the Denon it will output 720P. If I choose "Maximum Resolution" it will output 1080I.

If this is correct then that sounds fine in my particular circumstance.

OCDMedic

08-07-06, 08:31 PM

I have an Hitachi also and I am good with that too.

Paul Curtis

08-07-06, 10:04 PM

Did they mention 50Hz for the other resolutions?
Not according to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7893754). (I haven't been able to find an English-language manual on the web yet--has anybody else seen one?)

It's odd they would restrict the resolution when they can do it for others. Have to wait and see. I wouldn't go 100% by the docs.
I do know that, although the owner's manual for the DVD-3910 suggests that it will output 720p/1080i at 60hz only, this is manifestly not the case (at least, not with the current firmware)--in PAL mode, it does 720p50 and 1080i25 without a hitch.

Still, I really hope that Denon hasn't crippled the functionality of the Realta chipset. The "CI" is supposed to stand for Custom Integration, right? Well then, there ought to be plenty of custom settings available for us to tweak, right?

--Paul Curtis

steviec

08-07-06, 11:11 PM

Now hear this guys:
Just ordered a new 2930ci at 1 call

$849.00 plus free 3-day fedex shipping! get 'em while you can as they have them in stock!

DavidHir

08-07-06, 11:55 PM

steviec,

What player and display do you have right now?

venezolano

08-08-06, 02:41 AM

Jase H

08-08-06, 03:32 AM

After going thru the manuals it states that in hdmi auto setup( the only way to set the resolution) you enter either "panel resolution", that will automatically give you the native resolution of your display or...
you can select "maximum resolution" that will give you the maximum that your display will accept.
There is no way to manually enter 480p,1080i,1080p that i can see on the 3930ci or 2930ci,so if your display is not very compatible with the player you may have a player that CAN output 1080p but all you can get is 480p.
See my point?

You can manually select what resolution you want as well. Just press the HDMI Format button on the remote and cycle through the various options (Auto, 480i/576i, 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). The Auto applies to whatever option you have chosen for the HDMI Auto Setup (Panel Resolution or Maximum Resolution).

Kristoffer

08-08-06, 03:39 AM

The manuels are available on the US Denon site.
:)

PooperScooper

08-08-06, 07:01 AM

Not according to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7893754). (I haven't been able to find an English-language manual on the web yet--has anybody else seen one?)

I do know that, although the owner's manual for the DVD-3910 suggests that it will output 720p/1080i at 60hz only, this is manifestly not the case (at least, not with the current firmware)--in PAL mode, it does 720p50 and 1080i25 without a hitch.

Still, I really hope that Denon hasn't crippled the functionality of the Realta chipset. The "CI" is supposed to stand for Custom Integration, right? Well then, there ought to be plenty of custom settings available for us to tweak, right?

--Paul Curtis
O-nay on the eak-tway. :) I doubt you'll be able to do anything more than what you can do on the 5190 - just a guess. Denon's Realta implementation in their player is the "CI".

larry

PooperScooper

08-08-06, 07:04 AM

Now hear this guys:
Just ordered a new 2930ci at 1 call

$849.00 plus free 3-day fedex shipping! get 'em while you can as they have them in stock! Way to go! It looks like you may be the one to start the 2930 owners thread. :)

larry

Spizz

08-08-06, 07:12 AM

I can't find the 3930 manual?

PooperScooper

08-08-06, 07:46 AM

Can't find the 3930 manual?yes

Jase H

08-08-06, 08:42 AM

O-nay on the eak-tway. :) I doubt you'll be able to do anything more than what you can do on the 5190 - just a guess. Denon's Realta implementation in their player is the "CI".

larry

The 2930CI and 3930CI both do things the 5910CI can't. Namely 480i/576i via HDMI as well as the PC Resolutions. They also get MPEG Noise Reduction in addition to DNR Digital Noise Reduction. Bear in mind though that the 5910CI uses DVDO's ABT Scaling and only uses the Realta HQV for de-interlacing, noise reduction etc. The 2930CI and 3930CI use the Reon and Realta for everything. :)

DavidHir

08-08-06, 09:26 AM

The 2930CI and 3930CI both do things the 5910CI can't. Namely 480i/576i via HDMI as well as the PC Resolutions. They also get MPEG Noise Reduction in addition to DNR Digital Noise Reduction. Bear in mind though that the 5910CI uses DVDO's ABT Scaling and only uses the Realta HQV for de-interlacing, noise reduction etc. The 2930CI and 3930CI use the Reon and Realta for everything. :)

Any guess as to which will have better scaling: DVDO ABT or Reon/Realta?

bobloblaw

08-08-06, 09:39 AM

My guess is that if Denon decided to go with the ABT scaler for their top-of-the-line player, it's probably a bit better than the Realta solution. I can't say I've seen a Realta based scaler in action, but the scaling in my VP30 is fantastic.

DavidHir

08-08-06, 09:50 AM

I'm looking forward to member feedback and professional reviews on the 2930. If this player ends up being a real homerun in terms of picture quality performance and if I can get it for a great online price, and if it's a big step above my Oppo 970, it may be tempting. Originally I planned on buying a second generation HD player early next year and just sticking with my Oppo 970 in the meantime. However, considering how Blu-ray has been a disappointment and how relatively few titles there are or will be available on HD DVD (compared to my current collection), I could justify buying the 2930 and just waiting even longer for the HD thing to settle out.

Jase H

08-08-06, 09:57 AM

Any guess as to which will have better scaling: DVDO ABT or Reon/Realta?

Tricky. I'd have to see them side by side and compare. As Denon included it in the 5910 you'd have to assume at the time they felt it was the better option. It's possible the Realta's scaling has been tinkered with since then though.

tomboyter

08-08-06, 10:47 AM

DavidHir

08-08-06, 10:55 AM

David are you playing your 970 on a Panasonic plasma? If so, are you seeing the vertical compression issue that Neuromancer talks about and are you worried about the burn-in possibility? Are you happy with the picture and sound of the 970, or is it just a $149 pretty good machine?

I'm actually using the 970 with a 57" Sony CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520). The compression issue is present at 720p/1080i via HDMI.

I'm not worried about burn-in at all (black bars could cause uneven wear, but not burn-in per se...and only after a long period of excessive use. This is not an issue to me). The compression problem, while not horrible, is a bit annoying more than anything. But, once you start watching a movie, you don't really think about it a lot. But, still, it's something I want fixed sooner rather than later.

Aside from that, it's a very nice player and puts out a very good image for film-based DVDs...especially for the money (note I don't watch video-based material, so I can't speak about that). My question will ultimately be just how much better will the 2930 perform...and whether any such improvement is worth the extra money to me. Audio features mean nothing to me...I'm only concerned about film-based DVD picture quality.