I've spoken with a few individuals recently - two who work for Silicon Optix and another who doesn't, but did beta testing on the Reon. The individual who did the testing told me the Reon is very similar to the Gennum and that the Realta will be better with mixed cadences and bad edits. When it comes to scaling, they both very close and hard to tell which is actually best. The people from SO said both chips are very, very close in performance, but the Realta has more flexibility and future firmware updates are possible, where as with the Reon, this is unlikely since it's more of a pre-programmed chip not designed to be quite as flexible.

My guess at this point is that both the 2930 and 3930 will be similar in image quality. I think it may just come down to how much better the circuitry, power supply, etc. is in the 3930 which can affect image. From a chip standpoint, it sounds like little difference.

My guess at this point is that both the 2930 and 3930 will be similar in image quality. I think it may just come down to how much better the circuitry, power supply, etc. is in the 3930 which can affect image. From a chip standpoint, it sounds like little difference.

Wonder if that can be said about the sound quality?

IIRC the biggest gains from the 2910 to the 3910 were supposedly on the audio (ie CD/SACD/DVD-A) side of things

This is what I want to know about the most. I keep hoping to get some comparisons between the 2930 and 3910 with CD, SACD, and DVD-A playback. I don't know what changes besides the addition of AL32 processing were made in the 2930, but I have heard a lot of raves about its audio performance.

I have been looking at just getting a 3910 for the audio performance, but the 2930 has some convenience features I would really like. I don't think I can justify the 3930 in my budget, so I am really wanting to know how how much SQ I am giving up if I go with the 2930 instead of the 3910.

I really wish that the nearest Denon dealer was closer than 300 miles.

Thanks,

Chris

Wonder if that can be said about the sound quality?

IIRC the biggest gains from the 2910 to the 3910 were supposedly on the audio (ie CD/SACD/DVD-A) side of things

One would have to know the rest of your system to answer that question. It is possible that your system might not have the audio resolution to hear a difference between them; on the other hand if you have a particularly high end system you may indeed hear a difference.

If you are going to use the analog 5.1 out you will hear more of a difference than if you use a digital out since in the later case the DA conversion will be done by your receiver/decoder.

Ruin

Right now, I am using a Denon AVR-3300, NHT SuperOnes all around with a low-mid Velodyne 10 inch sub. My current universal player is a Pio Elite, can't remember the model number, it was, IIRC, a middle of the line model from the 2002-2003 model year.

All of this is pretty much moot as I will likely only use the player I buy with this system for weeks. I am upgrading my whole audio line. The definites are Ascend speakers, 340 mains and 340C, and either 170s or 340s for surrounds. My sub is planned as a Hsu VTF-3 HO, tHO. The big ? is which reciever I am going with. The short list is the Pio Elite VSX-84, the Yamaha RXV-2700, or a Panasonic digital.

I have always used the multichannel analog outputs for SACD and DVD-A, though I found on my current setup that using my 3300's DACs worked better for Redbook playback.

I actually run about 80 percent movies 20 percent music, but I am very serious about my music when I actually sit down to listen. Given the realities of my life, audio is much more important to me, even in movies. As long as the image is displayed accurately and without major artifacts, I am happy. I have a 2002 model Hitachi CRT RPTV with DVI, and probably won't replace it any time in the near future. My main interest right now is getting the best I can out of my audio without stepping back or adding hassles on the video side.

Thanks,

Chris

One would have to know the rest of your system to answer that question. It is possible that your system might not have the audio resolution to hear a difference between them; on the other hand if you have a particularly high end system you may indeed hear a difference.

If you are going to use the analog 5.1 out you will hear more of a difference than if you use a digital out since in the later case the DA conversion will be done by your receiver/decoder.

Ruin

I'm curious about what people are paying for the 2930.

The retail is $850 but what are they actually going for on the street?

I realize specific pricing is not to be discussed here so perhaps a few owners can PM me and let me know what they paid.

I'm trying to decide if it's worthwile buying in the US because we are getting stiffed here in Canada.
The retail price of $1140CDN is 20% higher after currency conversion.

All of this is pretty much moot as I will likely only use the player I buy with this system for weeks. I am upgrading my whole audio line. The definites are Ascend speakers, 340 mains and 340C, and either 170s or 340s for surrounds. My sub is planned as a Hsu VTF-3 HO, tHO. The big ? is which reciever I am going with. The short list is the Pio Elite VSX-84, the Yamaha RXV-2700, or a Panasonic digital.

I have always used the multichannel analog outputs for SACD and DVD-A, though I found on my current setup that using my 3300's DACs worked better for Redbook playback.

I don't think you are going to hear much difference between the two. Your audio system will be very nice, but it is not going to have the resolution to really showcase the incremental difference between the audio portions of the 2 different Denon players IMO. It will probably sound better to use the DACs in the new Denon player over the DACs in even your new receivers provided that you don't do any post processing.

'course my opinion doesn't mean squat. Audio is so subjective. :)

Ruin

The Rang...just PM'd you.

fyi...the Denon website says "Shipping Now" for the 2930 and 3930.

I forgot to note that my plan, if I end up with one of the non-digital recievers, is to save up for separate amps and eventually use the reciever as a pre. I am looking at the Exodous digital amps, probably save for a stereo amp and then a 3 channel amp later.

I have always had pretty discerning ears, but have never had trouble enjoying audio when I know it could sound even better. I am not sure what percentage improvement there will be from 2930 to 3910 and from 3910 to 3930. I had been leaning towards giving in and dumping the money for the 3930 as the best long term solution. But I am now more leaning towards the 2930 as best bang for buck, doing this would save me enough to put more money elsewhere and start my separates fund.

Mainly, I have been looking for others' experiences to help me help me be sure I make the right choice. I have yet to be disappointed in a Denon product I have owned. The only reason I am jumping ship on the reciever end is that the Denon recievers with the number of HDMI inputs I want and other features I am interested in fall into that range of massively complicated setup and I have been told that Denons with LCD remotes are hard to manage with alternative remotes. Since I cannot use an LCD remote, I am looking at recievers without one or that are supposed to work well with alternatives.

Anyway, thanks for the input. As I've said, this is a real pain when the only way to audition would be to get someone to haul me about 300 miles north to Albuquerque.

Thanks,

Chris

I don't think you are going to hear much difference between the two. Your audio system will be very nice, but it is not going to have the resolution to really showcase the incremental difference between the audio portions of the 2 different Denon players IMO. It will probably sound better to use the DACs in the new Denon player over the DACs in even your new receivers provided that you don't do any post processing.

'course my opinion doesn't mean squat. Audio is so subjective. :)

Ruin

Regarding the Denon 2930CI -

Several reviews (many copies of the same one) state:

"On the downside, using the Windows DVD Test Annex, we noticed that it suffered from chroma bug in 1080i mode."

Any owners out there that can verify this? Does it appear on commercial DVDs?

More important to me, does it have CUE outputing 1080p?

I am looking at purchasing this player and don't want to have to go through the hassle of returning it due to CUE.

Thank you for any information.

I decided on the 3930 because although it may not have the asolute best bang for the buck, it will likely be the last DVD/SACD player I will buy until the HD format wars are over, at which time I "may" purchase some type of HD player. So I figured I wanted really high quality, without going crazy and getting into the 5xxx series, because I will likely have it for a relatively long period of time. Other than the cost issue (though I am getting a killer price) I can not see any downside in buying the 3930.

Ruin

I decided on the 3930 because although it may not have the asolute best bang for the buck, it will likely be the last DVD/SACD player I will buy until the HD format wars are over, at which time I "may" purchase some type of HD player. So I figured I wanted really high quality, without going crazy and getting into the 5xxx series, because I will likely have it for a relatively long period of time. Other than the cost issue (though I am getting a killer price) I can not see any downside in buying the 3930.

Ruin
That was my thought process when I bought my 3910 2 years ago, and have never regretted it. I'm set until BD/HD get their act together with 2nd/3rd generation. I guarantee you won't regret your 3930 purchase. As long as you can afford it, you never go wrong with top quality products.

Regarding the Denon 2930CI -

Several reviews (many copies of the same one) state:

"On the downside, using the Windows DVD Test Annex, we noticed that it suffered from chroma bug in 1080i mode."

Any owners out there that can verify this? Does it appear on commercial DVDs?

More important to me, does it have CUE outputing 1080p?

I am looking at purchasing this player and don't want to have to go through the hassle of returning it due to CUE.

Thank you for any information.
I'm at a loss to see how this happens. CUE is a MPEG decoder bug. If it doesn't happen at 480i/p, 720p, 1080p, then why would it happen at 1080i? The only guess I have is that it happens at 480i and somehow the Reon goes from 480i to 1080i without the usual deinterlace/scale/reinterlace process. Chroma Upsampling Error is a bug upsampling the YCbCr 4:2:0 contained on the disc to YCbCr 4:2:2 (or 4:4:4) in the MPEG decoder.

larry

I really want someone in here to post their findings because I would trust them a whole lot more than:

c|net (http://reviews.cnet.com/Denon_DVD_2930CI/4505-6463_7-31987329.html)

or

zdnet (http://review.zdnet.com/Denon_DVD_2930CI/4505-6463_16-31987329.html)

P.S. I quick test would be to simply set the HDMI output to 1080i and start up Toy Story and/or Monsters, Inc. etc.

Also, I don't believe the reviews mention the PC resolution output quality or if they were used/tested either.

Where exactly to check on Toy Story or Monsters? What chapter or scene?

Here are some scenes from both and some other DVDs as well as information on what areas to look for in any DVD movie:

CLICK HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html)

I'll try to check those out. All I know is I'm seeing something on Star Wars right now that wasn't on my previous Denon 2900 nor my Oppo 970.

That is what keeps me wish washing. If I had a great deal somewhere, it would be a no-brainer, but the no nearby dealer thing has kept me from developing a relationship with a local dealer that leads to such deals. I am pretty much stuck with online or phone ordering. I have lots of friends and family willing to give me rides places, but 300 miles for an electronics purchase seems to be a bit much to ask.

I have also considered getting a 3910 for audio and anamorphic material and an Oppo 970 for non and 4:3 material so I don't have to deal with the frustration of switching modes on the 3910. But I am still diligently hunting for more stores to post their pricing on the 3930 and hoping to run into a deal I can manage. The fact that 90 percent of the sites I know haven't even put up the 3930 listing yet gives me some hope.

I think I will enjoy any of the Denon's I am looking at, but the 3930 would be that ultimate long-term solution and would work for everything except my non-region 1 movies.

Thanks for all of the input,

Chrismovies

That was my thought process when I bought my 3910 2 years ago, and have never regretted it. I'm set until BD/HD get their act together with 2nd/3rd generation. I guarantee you won't regret your 3930 purchase. As long as you can afford it, you never go wrong with top quality products.

Here are some scenes from both and some other DVDs as well as information on what areas to look for in any DVD movie:

CLICK HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html) The first time I saw CUE was on Mars Attacks. When Jack Nicholson was in the red cowboy outfit sitting in the limo and talking to Jim Brown you can see stair-stepping on the rim of his cowboy hat. Once you know what to look for you can find it in many movies.

larry

Just briefly off the present subject of CUE, I noticed the 3930 sets a precedent within Denon for their DVD players, by sporting a fan to force-cool the Realta heatsink.

Wow, that is a newsflash. Does the 5910 have a fan? Fans can spell trouble unless they spend an extra couple bucks and put in quiet ones that will last longer than a couple years. Nothing more disappointing than frying something for no reason that could have been avoided by a part that costs a tad more.

larry

No, the 5910 doesn't use a fan, it uses a similar substantial heatsink, plus extensive vents, together with a larger case. I haven't seen a good picture of the 3930's lid to see how many vents it has, but AFAIK it uses more than the 3910 and 5900, along with a set on the back panel in line with the rear facing fan, mounted behind the disc drive. The 2930 looks to have extra vents too - on the lid either side of the disc drive, I think, but no fan. See a picture of the fan over at AreaDVD:

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2006/IFA_2006/cr/denon_dvd_2930_3930_ifa.shtml

No fans in the A1XVA (5910CI). The 3930 rear does have a vent in it and this image shows what could be a fan aiming over the heatsink at the rear.

http://www.denon.de/site/popup/ansicht.php?p=ansicht&Pid=292&bild_nr=9

No, the 5910 doesn't use a fan, it uses a similar substantial heatsink, plus extensive vents, together with a larger case. I haven't seen a good picture of the 3930's lid to see how many vents it has, but AFAIK it uses more than the 3910 and 5900, along with a set on the back panel in line with the rear facing fan, mounted behind the disc drive. The 2930 looks to have extra vents too - on the lid either side of the disc drive, I think, but no fan. See a picture of the fan over at AreaDVD:

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2006/IFA_2006/cr/denon_dvd_2930_3930_ifa.shtml
Nice pics. The 3930 also uses BNC connectors for component output - nice!

larry

so any comparos between the 3930 and the 3910 yet???

so any comparos between the 3930 and the 3910 yet???

Nope - kind of hard when the 3930 hasn't been released yet. :)

However, according to member on a different forum, he found the 2930 video better than the 3910. And, based on my memory of when I demo'd the 3910 (though I never actually A/B'd them), I find the 2930 better, as well.

Heh, I doubt anyone has both of those units atm since the 3930 just started shipping. Actually, who the heck is upgrading from a 3910 to a 3930? Sure, it is an upgrade but it is pretty small incrementally for the money.

Ruin

Let's see who will be the first to start a thread on "first sightings" or "first impressions" of the '3930. ;)

UK's What Hi-Fi just published a comparative review of the 3930 -- for what it's worth -- testing it alongside two Arcams (DV79 & DV137) and Pioneer's 989. They concluded the 3930 'isn't a jaw-dropper considering the manufacturer's pedigree in budget, midrange and high-end DVD players' and say '..while the Denon was good, it wasn't alarmingly so.' They say they '..kept coming back to the Pioneer..' partly because it's considerably cheaper than the Denon.

UK's What Hi-Fi just published a comparative review of the 3930 -- for what it's worth -- testing it alongside two Arcams (DV79 & DV137) and Pioneer's 989. They concluded the 3930 'isn't a jaw-dropper considering the manufacturer's pedigree in budget, midrange and high-end DVD players' and say '..while the Denon was good, it wasn't alarmingly so.' They say they '..kept coming back to the Pioneer..' partly because it's considerably cheaper than the Denon.

Is there a link or is it a paper mag? Also, is Pioneer 989 the U.S. version of the 79Avi?

Heh, I doubt anyone has both of those units atm since the 3930 just started shipping. Actually, who the heck is upgrading from a 3910 to a 3930? Sure, it is an upgrade but it is pretty small incrementally for the money.

Ruin
For anyone with MB problems with the 3910, the upgrade would make a lot of sense. Otherwise, I agree with you (and did decide to just stick with my 3910).

Is there a link or is it a paper mag? Also, is Pioneer 989 the U.S. version of the 79Avi?

It's a paper mag I'm afraid, and yes, the 989 is the Euro 79.

UK's What Hi-Fi just published a comparative review of the 3930 -- for what it's worth -- testing it alongside two Arcams (DV79 & DV137) and Pioneer's 989. They concluded the 3930 'isn't a jaw-dropper considering the manufacturer's pedigree in budget, midrange and high-end DVD players' and say '..while the Denon was good, it wasn't alarmingly so.' They say they '..kept coming back to the Pioneer..' partly because it's considerably cheaper than the Denon.

I wouldn't expect that big a difference between the players. I am sure the diminishing returns thing is kicking in at this price point. They are comparing it to 3 higher end players. Ignoring price did the Denon still beat the other 3 as far as video performance?

A more interesting comparrison would be the Denon 2930ci vs the Pioneer 79Avi. These go for approxiamtely the same price on the street.

A more interesting comparrison would be the Denon 2930ci vs the Pioneer 79Avi. These go for approxiamtely the same price on the street.
I had the 79avi.
I now have the 2930ci.
My 79avi had issues. The 2930 is at least as good for audio and with my 50" Panny 8uk the pq is better on the 2930. Just finished watching an odd movie... but while it played, I kept thinking about the gorgeous image quality.

No regrets about the 2930ci purchase. It will last me until the HD war is over... and unless they begin to incorporate SACD and DVD-A: far beyond.

shane

I had the 79avi.
I now have the 2930ci.
My 79avi had issues.
shane

Can you elaborate on these issues?
Kris Deering's findings are well known, are there other problems?

Thanks

Can you elaborate on these issues?
Kris Deering's findings are well known, are there other problems?

ThanksYeah, the 79-AVi has problems on Kris' tests.

But it also plays all the discs I've thrown at it, most importantly all the burned discs I own.

Meanwhile, the 5910 choked on most burned discs I own.

The Denon can pass Kris' tests with flying colors, but until Denons can actually play burned discs they are purported to suppor, that right there is a much bigger issue to me than whether the 79-AVi passes a particular test or not. :(

Can you elaborate on these issues?
Kris Deering's findings are well known, are there other problems?

Thanks

I am curious as well, I have had the 79avi for about a year and not one problem at all. Unless you count the 2-3 second portion of Gladiator it has performed very well with all movies, SACD and DVD-A. I had a 2910 before the 79avi and can say the 79avi is a better player (IMO), with the 2910s slow functions being the biggest drawback. Hopefully the 2930 is better in that regard.

It will be interesting to see how the 2930/3930 performs when tested by Kris Deering. If they do not do well you will see a lot of people change their opinion real fast as with the 79avi.

Bill

All the issues with the 79avi have been discussed in the 79avi thread. Please, let's not rehash them here. Thanks.

larry

I wouldn't expect that big a difference between the players. I am sure the diminishing returns thing is kicking in at this price point. They are comparing it to 3 higher end players. Ignoring price did the Denon still beat the other 3 as far as video performance?

I don't place much store in What Hi-Fi Sound & Vision reviews, but they do make some valid statements about screen size, and relative cost: e.g. 'The saving on the Pioneer would buy a very good CD player..'

What you say is true, there isn't a big difference between the players, and the returns for extra cost diminish here to what some would consider negligible levels. Only the buyer can decide whether a miniscule improvement is worth the significant price hike.

The 3930 (and Arcam DV137) edged ahead of the others for video, such as in areas of 'low-light detail and ultimate resolution,' but neither seemed significantly better than the 989, and the review kept mentioning prices, at least in this regard. It was mentioned that some preferred the 989's handling of motion, but they didn't elaborate on this. Also, the 3930 pulled ahead of the 989 on audio and appears to be on par with the DV137, which was itself bettered by the DV79 in some respects.

Leaving aside MBE which doesn't affect everyone, many regard the 3910 as better than the 989, already. If the 3930 is only as good as the 3910 - which is unlikely - and eliminates MBE, then it follows that it should be better still. In all likelihood, it's generally better than the 3910 (if not for jaggies) - as the 2930 betters the 2910 - so should increase it's lead. If it approaches the 5910 in performance, then more detailed testing should reveal that it does significantly out perform the 989, but the benefits will only be evident on larger high quality screens.

Regarding the "low-light detail" or shadow detail is another thing I really notice about the 2930 that makes it stand out against other players I tested.

Yes, this is crucial in some scenes.

Has anyone tried the PC resolutions yet? This is one of the biggest factors for my contemplating these units as I'd love to be able to feed 1024x768 to my CRT FP directly from the player over HDMI (I have a converter to go from DVI to VGA).

I have a converter to go from DVI to VGA Who makes your transcoder box? Somebody in another forum was asking about one. Your box takes the digital DVI and converts to analog RGB?

larry

Yep. DVI in and HD-15 VGA out. Brand is Dtronics. The new ones they make are HDCP enabled so if the source is flagged, it won't output the signal. I've got one of the first production runs which essentially strip off the HDCP and output everything. Works great and gives me a better picture than going through the iScan HD+ I used before.

The key is to get the early version or you are SOL. Folks have commented that all of these converters crush blacks, but I haven't seen it with this model.

Back to my original question......CAN ANYONE TRY THE PC RES AND SEE HOW GOOD IT IS???

I don't doubt the ability to deinterlace well; but how good is the scaling?

Thanks, you jogged my memory. Someone else here a while back got one of the "good" ones too.

larry

Has anyone tried the PC resolutions yet? This is one of the biggest factors for my contemplating these units as I'd love to be able to feed 1024x768 to my CRT FP directly from the player over HDMI (I have a converter to go from DVI to VGA).
Well... I was playing around with it this evening with the new HDMI (8-series) card I got today fo rmy 50" Panny 8UK.

Only two resolutions worked. VGA and XGA. The XGA looked the best.

I have no idea what they are or how they translate to what you are looking for. I am not using them and I was just trying out all the various settings.

It turns out that the resolution I'm going to keep for a while is RGB @ 720P. It seemed just the least bit softer than 480P in a very few of the tests (patterns), but in actual film-based trials it was consistently superior to that or 1080i.

BTW... as I've said before, the 2930 I have has not choked on any burned media. Not one single error. Multiple speeds, multiple burners and multiple brands.

cheers

shane

Shane,

Thanks for trying the resolutions. VGA is 640x480 so that would only look OK. XGA is 1024x768 so I'd expect that to look better. How did the XGA look compared to 720p? I'd think that your plasma is going to rescale either one as neither of these resolutions is the native res. for your display, so the comparison should be fair as the panel is going to do the same to both signals. (The only difference is handling the aspect ratio difference.)

John

I had the 79avi.
I now have the 2930ci.
My 79avi had issues. The 2930 is at least as good for audio and with my 50" Panny 8uk the pq is better on the 2930. Just finished watching an odd movie... but while it played, I kept thinking about the gorgeous image quality.

No regrets about the 2930ci purchase. It will last me until the HD war is over... and unless they begin to incorporate SACD and DVD-A: far beyond.

shane

If you see any CUE at 1080i or other resolutions, please let us/me know.

Are you using a DLP?

Shane,

Thanks for trying the resolutions. VGA is 640x480 so that would only look OK. XGA is 1024x768 so I'd expect that to look better. How did the XGA look compared to 720p? I'd think that your plasma is going to rescale either one as neither of these resolutions is the native res. for your display, so the comparison should be fair as the panel is going to do the same to both signals. (The only difference is handling the aspect ratio difference.)

John
The xga looked a bit better than the VGA. It scaled both a bit oddly compared to RGB or YCbCr, but I could adjust it to correct with the Pannnys controls.
XGA was a bit sharper.

Also the PC settings (VGA or XGA) via the HDMI were the nly ones that allowed me to change the ratio on the monitor. I could 'Zoom, Just, Full or Normal'. The others were like my HD box on HD channels. Full only. No Color or Tint controls available.

With YCbCr selected the Color and Tint controls were available, but not the ratios.

Interesting. I'm still sticking with RGB @ 720P for now. I dialed back the color a bit in the 2930's controls and got an excellent, realistic image.

cheers

shane

If you see any CUE at 1080i or other resolutions, please let us/me know.

Are you using a DLP?
Naw... as I said, it's a Panny 50" 8UK which is the commercial Plasma.

I never kept it on 1080i long enough to look for anything other than sharpness, detail, etc. Didn't look for advanced anomalies like CUE. At 1080i it just wasn't as sharp and clean as 480P or 720P.

shane

It seems to me that the relative lack of activity in this tread might indicate the lack of interest in these high dollar and performance SD DVD players.

This is probably due to most people either trying the HD-DVD or BR players or just sitting on the sidelines for a while. I'm sure if there was on the HD option out there there would have been a lot more interest in these high end SD DVD players. I wonder just how the sales have been for the 2930 so far compared to the initial 2910 sales? I bet it has to be less then 25%. Just a guess...

It seems to me that the relative lack of activity in this tread might indicate the lack of interest in these high dollar and performance SD DVD players.

This is probably due to most people either trying the HD-DVD or BR players or just sitting on the sidelines for a while. I'm sure if there was on the HD option out there there would have been a lot more interest in these high end SD DVD players. I wonder just how the sales have been for the 2930 so far compared to the initial 2910 sales? I bet it has to be less then 25%. Just a guess...
Not necessarily. First of all, no one has seen hide nor hair of the '3930 yet, making discussion of its observable merits impossible. As for the '2930, while it has hit the market in some places, units are in very short supply right now pending further shipments.
A better indicator of interest in these particular models is the fact that there's been a thread going since April about a couple of players that aren't even available yet that's drawn more than 82,000 views to date.

Any clue about denon release date? awaiting for mine..

cheers

I'm hew here and have learned alot from reading this thread, several times. Thanks for getting me on the right track. I ordered a 2930 from a Wis B&M and was given an Oct 8th pick up date. I know that date falls on a Sunday but you can be sure I'll be calling them on the Friday before just in case.

You know one reason there may not be alot of interest is the fact that Denon is still using the ESS vibratto decoder which Kris Deering semi panned in the 5910 benchmark.
When there are alternatives like the mediatek used in the oppo players there really is no contest.
Your paying for a new mercedes with an engine that has a faulty fuel pump and it will never perform as well as one that has a top of the line fuel pump.
I owned the 2930 and sent it back due to 480i issues over hdmi.It was obviously doing something to screw up the 480i signal,the oppo 970 @480i hdmi was superior.
Based on this I would expect the same results form the 3930: Passes all the 3:2 film deinterlacing tests and fails all the rest of the cadences plus screws up the 480i so you dont really want to use it with a good scaler/processor.

There could be a lot of people like me who have been thinking about a DVD player upgrade and slowly drifted over to the DH-DVD forums due to the good reputation of the Toshiba HD-A1 SD DVD play-back. I'm getting a little frustrated the more I read obout HD-DVD and Blu-ray. I have a 38" Loewe Aconda direct CRT that has one of the best pictures possible with DVD. In my journey to learn more about the Toshiba HD-DVD players, I happened to come across o a Denon 2910 player connected to a decent display. The image was very impressive and I have a lot of SD DVDs and I know my TV can really exploit the 480p format. I'm now back in the DVD camp mostly due to what great things I've heard about the DVD-2930CI player. As more real user testimonials appear on this thread I think traffic will pick up considerably. Right now, there is close to zero internet press on any of these players -- other than the initial press releases.

I just pray that this player is half as good as it sounds.

It seems to me that the relative lack of activity in this tread might indicate the lack of interest in these high dollar and performance SD DVD players.

I bet not. :) I bet there are a lot of "lurkers" (like me!) out there waiting for the 3930 to actually be released, and for user comments to start showing up. And for Kris's eventual review.

Personally, I won't get an HD DVD/Blu-ray player until I can get a "next generation" universal player that plays eveything a current universal machine plays, plus HD DVD *and* Blu-ray. That might be 3 years from now. So I would have no problem personally justifying buying another SD player now, as long as I get an improvement in performance from what I have now.

Plus, I don't personally believe that it's definite yet that either HD DVD or Blu-ray will "make it" as mainstream formats (SACD and DVD-A vs CD). In that case, I could live with SD.

Plus, at the same time, there's HD VOD coming which might make physical formats such as HD DVD and Blu-ray obsolete. I bet the movie studios would like nothing better than to charge us each time we watch a high def movie. ;) 'Course, that might be the end of SD DVD too. But there would at least be a few state of the art players available for the many DVDs that a lot of us already own.

Really, what traffic can there really be until the player comes out?

That having been said, my dealer did get a shipment into the warehouse Wednesday and will have one on display on Friday.

As far as pricing goes, the price of the 3930 is actually kind of a bargain if it does what people say it should; personally I'm disappointed that there won't be a 5930.

Do we know for sure whether there won't be a 5930, as it seems odd to have all the PC resolutions that potential 5910 buyers wanted, together with the keystone function, on a player that's below the top-end model. These features just seem to screaming out for inclusion in a 5930 -- or, at least yet-another-upgrade to the existing 5910. DVD-A1XVB/DVD-5910CIB anyone?

...my dealer did get a shipment into the warehouse Wednesday and will have one on display on Friday.
Of what? The '3930 or '2930? Is this an authorized dealer?

Well I was going to get a 2930ci this year but now I'm thinking about getting a 3930ci next year instead. I have a sizeable DVD collection that I want to continue to enjoy on the best player I can afford.

What are the differences between the Silicon Optix Realta and the mainstream Reon-Vx chips? What video processing does the 3930 have than the 2930 doesn't?

I've visited the Silicon Optix site and would appreciate anyone's findings here.

Well I was going to get a 2930ci this year but now I'm thinking about getting a 3930ci next year instead. I have a sizeable DVD collection that I want to continue to enjoy on the best player I can afford.

What are the differences between the Silicon Optix Realta and the mainstream Reon-Vx chips? What video processing does the 3930 have than the 2930 doesn't?

I've visited the Silicon Optix site and would appreciate anyone's findings here.

The Realta is said to do better with mixed cadences and bad edits. In addition, it's more of an "open-ended" chip where future firmware upgrades can take place, etc. The Reon is not designed like this I'm told. The Reon is very similar to the Gennum.

Spoke with a couple of online retailers who claim they have them in stock and have already shipped a few out. Hopefully, we'll finally start hearing some feedback soon.

Spoke with a couple of online retailers who claim they have them in stock and have already shipped a few out. Hopefully, we'll finally start hearing some feedback soon.
And I spoke with a NYC-area distributor who says he just got some in this week. Time to start a new thread. ;)

Of what? The '3930 or '2930? Is this an authorized dealer?
3930, authorized dealer. (ListenUp (http://www.listenup.com/) in Colorado.)

[QUOTE=Kevin C Brown]I bet not. :) I bet there are a lot of "lurkers" (like me!) out there waiting for the 3930 to actually be released, and for user comments to start showing up. And for Kris's eventual review.

Personally, I won't get an HD DVD/Blu-ray player until I can get a "next generation" universal player that plays eveything a current universal machine plays, plus HD DVD *and* Blu-ray. That might be 3 years from now. So I would have no problem personally justifying buying another SD player now, as long as I get an improvement in performance from what I have now.

Plus, I don't personally believe that it's definite yet that either HD DVD or Blu-ray will "make it" as mainstream formats (SACD and DVD-A vs CD). In that case, I could live with SD.QUOTE]

And Me.

As an early adaptor of laser disks and SACD (try to find those disks now), I will not buy into a new format especially since you can not realize it's full advertised potential - no HD sound, no 1080P, defective chips, bad software, still using MPEG 2..... the list goes on. All this and they want me to pay $25 or more per disk while I'm currently paying $18 on average for SD DVDs. Well my mother did not rase a.....

So I waite for the 3930 and research other universal players only because my old Sony has excessive MB with my new LCD and I want to protect my existing investment. The rancid taste of selling my $35 laserdisks for almost $1 is still with me.

Vic

hi,
i will have a new pioneer 5070HD soon and will hook up a new denon 2930CI to it.

The 5070 can input 1080p but is actually only capable of outputting 720p (not sure of the reason of the 1080p input because of this - i assume to let u not have to set up external devices to 'downscale' before inputting to the tv)..

The 2930CI can upscale to a multitude of resolutions, so, questions:
- should i just use 'basic' upscaling in the dvd (ie 480p) and let the tv upscale this to it's native 720p (i assume the tv does this, not totally sure though!)?

- should i upscale in the dvd to 720 p and therefore have no scaling in the tv?

- should i upscale in the dvd to 1080p and then have the dvd get this back to 720p??

(Am i right in assuming that the newer digital sets like the 5070HD scale up to their native resolution any incoming input?)

The resolution of the plasma is 1365x768

thanks,
bs

Another quick question - i understand the 2930CI does PAL to NTSC conversion. Is the unit locked to region 1 in the US or is it region free? ( i have picked 1 up at tweeter recently)...Does anyone know of a hack to make the player region free? I have seen one here: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Denon+DVD-3910

Wondering if this will work for the 2930 also.

Another quick question - i understand the 2930CI does PAL to NTSC conversion. Is the unit locked to region 1 in the US or is it region free? ( i have picked 1 up at tweeter recently)...Does anyone know of a hack to make the player region free? I have seen one here: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Denon+DVD-3910

Wondering if this will work for the 2930 also.

Firmware directs microcontroller chip on how to command/control other chips. 3910 and 2930 have different chipsets so better not to mess it up by experimenting with an incompatible set of instructions (firmware).

hi,
i will have a new pioneer 5070HD soon and will hook up a new denon 2930CI to it.

The 5070 can input 1080p but is actually only capable of outputting 720p (not sure of the reason of the 1080p input because of this - i assume to let u not have to set up external devices to 'downscale' before inputting to the tv)..

The 2930CI can upscale to a multitude of resolutions, so, questions:
- should i just use 'basic' upscaling in the dvd (ie 480p) and let the tv upscale this to it's native 720p (i assume the tv does this, not totally sure though!)?

- should i upscale in the dvd to 720 p and therefore have no scaling in the tv?

- should i upscale in the dvd to 1080p and then have the dvd get this back to 720p??

(Am i right in assuming that the newer digital sets like the 5070HD scale up to their native resolution any incoming input?)

The resolution of the plasma is 1365x768

thanks,
bs The only way to know for sure what will look best is to try them all. :) Also, your plasma has a native resolution of 1365x768, as you state, but you are confused about where 720p comes into play - reading too many BestBuy ads, maybe? :) Unless you feed the plasma 1365x768, it will have to scale all other input resolutions to 1365x768. 720p is 1280x720. Your plasma has enough pixels to fully resolve 720p, but it still has to add more to fill 1365x768.

larry

When I had the 2930 I tried its 480i into a VP30. It would not pass most of the cadence tests on the ABT disc. It looks like the 480i is not raw 480i but re-interlaced 480i after de-interlacing by the player.

So, does this mean the the 480i signal could be "easier to de-interlace" than the raw 480i? I have a Loewe TV that has a nice fluid image for slow scenes, but tends to get confused and motion artifacts when there is a lot of action. I'm just wondering if the 2930CI implementation might have potential benefits for my TV. Seems odd that Denon would do something like that if there were no benefit.

I'd be flabbergastted :) if the 480i from the 2930is reinterlaced 480p. It doesn't make any sense to do that.

larry

Originally Posted by Jeffhdz
When I had the 2930 I tried its 480i into a VP30. It would not pass most of the cadence tests on the ABT disc. It looks like the 480i is not raw 480i but re-interlaced 480i after de-interlacing by the player.





I will repeat this again:
The 480i signal from the 2930 has problems and will not pass any of the tests on the ABT 102 test dvd when running the signal into a DVDO VP30 processor.Something in the player is really affecting the 480i signal causing it to break up and not really lock completely.
It is not the player to use with a external scaler.

It definitely sounds as if the 2930 is made for being a standalone player. Recently, I had to return the model I borrowed. However, I am seriously considering buying it. I'm just waiting for 3930 feedback and the possibility of demo'ing it too. However, at the 2930 price range, I don't think there is a better performing player out there. The only player that might compete is the Pioneer 59/79Avi but I'm not sure if they are really as good as the 2930/Reon chipset.

It is not the player to use with a external scaler. That's for sure. Why buy something with the Reon or Realta and use 480i?

larry

My salesman just called and said his distributer has the 3930CI in stock and they had one earmarked for me which will be in his shop tomorrow. Unfortunately I won't be able to pick it up until next week since I am traveling, but this is a sign that you can expect them to start appearing.

Ruin

That's for sure. Why buy something with the Reon or Realta and use 480i?

larry
It sounds like I should be happy with the 2930 in 480p. My Loewe TV just has this really nice effect when you have it de-interlace. I was just really just wondering if maybe the 3930 might do some interesting filtering to the 480i signal. I'm also interested in future-proofing myself so that when I eventually go to a 1080p monitor...

It doesn't seem that using the 2930 at 480i makes any sense at though -- based on steveiec's comments.

It sounds like I should be happy with the 2930 in 480p.

The 480p output is absolutely stunning.

[QUOTE]That's for sure. Why buy something with the Reon or Realta and use 480i?[QUOTE]

Exactly what I was thinking...aren't there much less expensive options??

[QUOTE]That's for sure. Why buy something with the Reon or Realta and use 480i?[QUOTE]

Exactly what I was thinking...aren't there much less expensive options??

1. If you are going to spend that much on a player it would be a plus if it did have a perfect 480i signal.
2. Alot of people would use it with a scaler as a transport because of the nice build quality,Great sound and the nice remote and interface.

I was just checking out the gamma adjustments in the owner's manual. This player provides much more control than any other player I've seen.

The 480p output is absolutely stunning.
Agreed. I had been using the YCbCr 480p setting, but now have switched to RGB @ 720P. It just seemed to be a bit smoother without loosing the detail. The difference is so slight that you really have to study tiny areas of the image and go back and forth to see any difference whatsoever. Who knows... maybe I'll go back to 480P in another couple weeks! :o

Great machine!

shane

1. If you are going to spend that much on a player it would be a plus if it did have a perfect 480i signal.
2. Alot of people would use it with a scaler as a transport because of the nice build quality,Great sound and the nice remote and interface.

Understood, but my point is why would someone spend ~$850 FOR 480i to an expensive scaler when they could buy the Oppo 970 for a fraction of the price and get just as good (maybe better) 480i output to the same scaler...

Understood, but my point is why would someone spend ~$850 FOR 480i to an expensive scaler when they could buy the Oppo 970 for a fraction of the price and get just as good (maybe better) 480i output to the same scaler...

better audio.

Agreed. I had been using the YCbCr 480p setting, but now have switched to RGB @ 720P. It just seemed to be a bit smoother without loosing the detail. The difference is so slight that you really have to study tiny areas of the image and go back and forth to see any difference whatsoever. Who knows... maybe I'll go back to 480P in another couple weeks! :o

Great machine!

shane

I was using 480p component and 1080i HDMI RGB. My display was clipping black and white levels with YCbCr. My guess is because my display is 8 bit and couldn't properly handle 10 bit YCbCr.

Anyone using 2930 at 720p with projectors? Any comments on picture? Thank you.

hi,
i will have a new pioneer 5070HD soon and will hook up a new denon 2930CI to it.

The 5070 can input 1080p
<EDIT CUT>
- should i upscale in the dvd to 1080p and then have the dvd get this back to 720p??
<EDIT CUT>
The resolution of the plasma is 1365x768
<EDIT CUT>


The 5070's HDMI input at 1080p/24 is not compatible with the 2930's 1080p/60 output. If you set the 2930 to 1080p it will not display on the 5070. All of the 2930's other output settings will work, including 1080i/60, 720p/60, 480p/60 and 480i/60. But with DVD film source at 24 fps, a 1080i/60 signal has enough bandwidth to carry 1080 pixels of upconverted source, 30 times a second. Therefore, it shouldn't be a factor that the 5070 does not support the 2930's 1080p mode.

The question then, is whether PQ is better at
1) 1080i/60 where the 5070 has more pixels than it needs, de-interlaces and downconverts an upconverted signal to its native 768.
2) 720p/60 where the 5070 has fewer pixels than it needs and upconverts an already upconverted signal to its native 768.
3) 480p/60 where the 5070 upconverts the signal to 768.
4) 480i/60 where the 5070 de-interlaces and upconverts the signal to 768.

Also throw into the equation the 5070's ability to detect 24 fps film-based cadence, run at 72Hz and perform 3:3 pulldown (by setting PureCinema = ADV in the Pro Adjust menu).

Given the 2930's superior processing algorithms (SO Reon-VX), it would seem on paper that selecting 1080i/60 would give the best PQ.

Is the Denon 4306 1080P input compatible with the 3930CI 1080P output???

Is the Denon 4306 1080P input compatible with the 3930CI 1080P output???
Yes.

Kris told me he just received the 3930 the other day and will start taking a look at it next week if he has time. Also, they are looking to send him a 2930 depending on availability.

Kris told me he just received the 3930 the other day and will start taking a look at it next week if he has time. Also, they are looking to send him a 2930 depending on availability.

Excellent!

This should make for interesting reading in the (hopefully) not too distant future.

Yep, I got one. I will have a review up in the next few weeks. I have a lot going on buy I should have a benchmark up this month.

I'm looking forward to the 2930 review. I don't even want to be tempted by the 3930, I won't read it...I can't read it...must resist!

I too am quite interested in how the 2930 compares to the 3930 in terms of film-based DVD quality. If the 2930 is very close, I will purchase it...if the 3930 is noticably better, well...:).

I guess it comes mostly down to implementations of the Reon vs Realta.

I would like to know one thing:
Does the 3930 pass all the tests on the ABT102 test dvd?
The 2930 does not.
The Oppo 970 into a vp30 or vp50 processor does.
If the 3930 does we have a real great player here!

Yep, I got one. I will have a review up in the next few weeks. I have a lot going on buy I should have a benchmark up this month.

Thanks in advance. I'll be getting one of these around tax refund time next year.

I would like to know one thing:
Does the 3930 pass all the tests on the ABT102 test dvd?
The 2930 does not.

Exactly which tests does the 2930 not pass, and what exactly are the real world implications of this "defect." In other words, when would you notice the defect -- playing PAL disks, video sources, some poorly flagged movies, or what?

Well it uses the same deinterlacer as the 5910 but not the same scaler chip - the 5910 uses a DVDO scaling chip (IIRC) but the 3930 is going to use the Realta chip for both deinterlacing and scaling. General consensus is that the Realta chip deinterlacing performance varies somewhat depending on what other duties the chip is performing so taxing it harder by having it also process scaling algorithms may degrade deinterlacing and/or noise reduction. I suspect Denon used the DVDO scaling chip in the 5910 to get the best PQ possible but since the 3930 doesn't use that chip we'll just have to wait and see what difference it makes.
I believe the main reason Denon used DVDO in the 5910 was because they needed two simultaneous outputs from the player, a low res and a high-res. The Realta only provides one output at a time and though it can scale extremely well, Denon chose to let the DVDO chip do the scaling for both channels. In their follow-on players, I think they dropped the 2-output requirement and so were able to use the HQV chips for deinterlacing as well as scaling.

If you set the player to output 720p or 1080i the TV scaler has to do something to fit it in 1366x768 (the same thing it does if you feed it 480p). However, if you output 480p, you are still using the excellent deinterlacing capabilities of the Reon or Realta chip (2930 or 3930) and only scale once. For SD DVDs there's basically 3 stages. MPEG decode (480i/576i), deinterlace(480p/576p), and scaling. The second two are optional in the player but have to be done somewhere when going to be viewed on a digital display.

larry

What is the scenario for a HD CRT? I have a Sony 34HS420. I know that it has a 1080i native resolution. From 480i (DVD source) to 1080i(native TV res) there really isn't a need for deinterlacing. Will setting the output to 1080i in the DVD player just trigger scaling?

De-interlacing of these new DVD players is really though highly of in this forum. Would it still make sense to 480i->480p in the DVD and let the TV set go the 1080i conversion? (specifically for a Sony HS420 set, if anyone has any experience with these models of course)

-arcin

What is the scenario for a HD CRT? I have a Sony 34HS420. I know that it has a 1080i native resolution. From 480i (DVD source) to 1080i(native TV res) there really isn't a need for deinterlacing. Will setting the output to 1080i in the DVD player just trigger scaling?

De-interlacing of these new DVD players is really though highly of in this forum. Would it still make sense to 480i->480p in the DVD and let the TV set go the 1080i conversion? (specifically for a Sony HS420 set, if anyone has any experience with these models of course)

-arcin
Deinterlacing is done prior to scaling. Upscaling players go 480i to 480p prior to scaling to 1080i.

What MPEG decoder do the 3930 and 2930 use? It seems to be the same ESS as was using in the 3910, which isn't entirely chroma bug free, you still have to engage CUE filtering to remove it on the deinterlacer. One of the nice things about the 970HD is that it has a chroma bug free MPEG decoder, you don't even need CUE filtering to hide it. That's not really the case with the 3910, or the 2930 / 3930 if they use that same ESS MPEG decoder and it still has to be filtered to remove all signs of CUE.

What MPEG decoder do the 3930 and 2930 use? It seems to be the same ESS as was using in the 3910, which isn't entirely chroma bug free, you still have to engage CUE filtering to remove it on the deinterlacer. One of the nice things about the 970HD is that it has a chroma bug free MPEG decoder, you don't even need CUE filtering to hide it. That's not really the case with the 3910, or the 2930 / 3930 if they use that same ESS MPEG decoder and it still has to be filtered to remove all signs of CUE.

Maybe that is why CUE is mentioned in this review on one disc at 1080i:

REVIEW (http://reviews.cnet.com/Denon_DVD_2930CI/4505-6463_7-31987329.html)

The earlier announcements I saw for the 3930 definitely claimed a 'New ESS Vibrato "Chroma Bug Free" MPEG/DVD-Audio Decoder.'

We'll have to wait until Kris checks it out in forthcoming Benchmark tests.

The earlier announcements I saw for the 3930 definitely claimed a 'New ESS Vibrato "Chroma Bug Free" MPEG/DVD-Audio Decoder.'

We'll have to wait until Kris checks it out in forthcoming Benchmark tests.

Yes, I recall seeing that too -- though not for the 2930.

I don't know if it's CUE or not, but as previously mentioned I've seen something with the 2930 on Star Wars that other players including the 2900 nor Oppo 970 don't exhibit (though it's still a great player. But, I wonder how often this would show up in other movies since I only had the player for a few weeks).

I just picked up a 2930CI yesterday and hooked it up to my 38" Loewe Aconda CRT HDTV. I can only get 480p and 480i over component with my TV, but both look noticeibly better than my Rotel RDV-1050 which is not slotch. I was really surprised at how much better the 480i signal compared to the previous player. I really only expected a big difference with the 480p based on the interlacing circuitry in the 2930CI. In both cases, there is more detail and better color. I really notice the differences in people's faces with flesh tones having the right combination of smooth graduation and detail. I've very noticed how well eyes and even teeth sparkle almost like being there. I'm absolutely in love with Salma Hayek now after seeing her in the Superbit version of Desperado. That title looks really good on this player.

A couple of other things. I was a little disappointed that I cannot upscale over component. I really wanted to see what that would look like. I doubt that I would have used it much anway. Also, I've played with DVD-R and DVD+R DL with no issues so far. I sure would love it if somebody had a region free hack for this Player.

All in all, I'm very impressed. I have 2 more days to decide if I want to keep the unit. This is a lot of money to spend, and I haven't any direct comparison to 100% convince myself that this player is that much better than the OPPO 970 or the Toshiba HD-DVD players for playing SD DVDs on my set. On the other hand, I don't think I've seen a better image on any player/display combination out there. This is not to say that I don't lust for a larger display some day, but for the size I am very happy. Kinda sad though. I haven't gotten uhs and ahs from other family members. This sure can be a lonely hobby at times.

I have A/B'd the 2930 to the Toshiba and Oppo 970 --- the 2930 is definitely better than both --- especially at 480p component and still at 1080i HDMI (on my CRT RPTV).

DavidHir,

The difficult question for me is whether or not the Denon player is $350 better than the Toshiba and $650 better than the OPPO:-)

Since you have the Toshiba have to had a chance to compare a HD DVD output from it at 480p to the same title SD DVD on the 2930CI at 480p? That would be interesting to know. I have two different 1080 line displays and neither of them accept 540p, so when the studios start setting the ICT flags on HD-DVD I'll be limited to 480p. If nothing else this Denon player has changed my impressions as to what is possible with SD DVD resolution content. I also know that one day I will need to upgrade to an bigger display with HDMI to really take advantage of things like HD-DVD.

anyone know if the 2930 can play subtitles with Divx ?

DavidHir,

The difficult question for me is whether or not the Denon player is $350 better than the Toshiba and $650 better than the OPPO:-)

Since you have the Toshiba have to had a chance to compare a HD DVD output from it at 480p to the same title SD DVD on the 2930CI at 480p? That would be interesting to know. I have two different 1080 line displays and neither of them accept 540p, so when the studios start setting the ICT flags on HD-DVD I'll be limited to 480p. If nothing else this Denon player has changed my impressions as to what is possible with SD DVD resolution content. I also know that one day I will need to upgrade to an bigger display with HDMI to really take advantage of things like HD-DVD.

I know longer have the Toshiba (ended up returning it due to issues and decided to wait out the format war). I only compared the Toshiba player itself to HD DVD (downrez'd) to 480p and a standard DVD of the same title at 480p (this was with Million Dollar Baby). The standard DVD did look better than the downrez'd HD DVD. However, since the 2930 is better than the Toshiba for standard DVD, it is obvious the 2930 would excel with any kind of 480p output here. I was able to A/B several SD DVD titles of the Toshiba to the Denon as mentioned.

I can't really answer for you whether or not the Denon is worth the extra money than the other players. It's a very subjective thing. The Oppo 970 is the best value, hands down. For $150, it's the best bang for the buck out there. But, the 2930 is better. To my eyes and on my display, the 480p is significantly better on the 2930. The difference over HDMI upscaled to 1080i was not quite as large, but still noticably better on the 2930. This was pretty much the case with the Toshiba vs Denon, as well. The Denon has better color rendition, shadow detail, contrast, and picture depth. It has a smoother, cleaner, more refined image than either the Toshiba and Oppo. Over 480p component, it had these same traits but looked even sharper. The Toshiba and Oppo are still very good SD DVD players, but the Denon is definitely giving you better output here. Just be sure to properly calibrate for each player and input you try out or compare.

With one day to go to decide I've been going through a lot of material. I am getting more impressed the more I see. I'm wondering if if takes a little time for your eyes get calibrated to the new look. Anyway, I had Racing Stripes in the Netflix envelope, and pulled it out to play for the kids last night. This title looked phenomenal, and that is in spite of the fact that Netflix somehow sent me the fullscreen version. This is HD quality in the sense that it was as good as just about any HD movie I've seen on DTV or OTS/ATSC. Obviously, the image falls short of the HD DVD demo versions of King Kong or Batman Returns that I've seen on a decent plasma displays. After Racing Stripes I watched Fellowship of the Rings and that was altogether a different movie with this player.

One thing I don't recall others mentioning is that this player is really good with video based material. I have a bunch of home videos that I shot with a Canon GL2 (480i of course) and they are softer than than the film based stuff, but still have very nice colors and smooth motion. Commerical video based material looks even better as you would expect.

I saw that DavidHir had asked for information about some special settings in the picture adjust menus. I didn't see any responses. Has anybody figured out what these do and/or how to use them? The manual provides no useful explanantion:

* white level (different from contrast)
* black level (different from brightness)
* enhancer
* set-up level

Also, I know what gamma does, but does anybody have any experience with using this 10 level adjustment model? For those that don't know, the 2930CI allows you to adjust the gamma level very similarly to photoshop "curves." Now that I mention it, maybe some of other adjustments are more along the Photohop model. Moreover, since you can have 5 different memory settings you can switch between different gamma profiles for different titles -- i.e. have one profile that works best with dark material, another for animation, etc. I haven't had time to drill into these more, but it seems that there could be some potential here.

It would be really great if somebody could describe the steps for optimizing this DVD player with AVIA or DVE given the additional degrees of freedom that this player allows. I would imagine there would be some interations back and forth between the TV an DVD player settings.

Edit:

OK Figured out set-up (IRE level) -- name threw me off. Also, enhancer is supportd to "emphasisze the contours of an image."

I am committed to Ruby with VP50 and only remaining question is which SDI based Denon to front-end my system.

How much of the 3930 electronics do I need if I am using an SDI feed straight to the vp50?

Is the 3930 transport significantly better than the 2930?

Thanks for all opinions/facts....

Dave

Hi - anyone know if the 2930CI (US model) is region restricted or can play any region since i know it can play PAL DVD's? If region restricted, anyone know a hack??:)

Yep, I got one. I will have a review up in the next few weeks. I have a lot going on buy I should have a benchmark up this month.

The Denon 2910 and 3910 differ in that the 3910 allows individual adjustment of the channel delays in mch SACD mode while the 2910 does not. Can you find out whether this distinction also applies to the 2930 and 3930?

If all goes well, I should be able to demo a 3930 later this week.

Hi - anyone know if the 2930CI (US model) is region restricted or can play any region since i know it can play PAL DVD's? If region restricted, anyone know a hack??:)
I tried a Japanese region 2 NTSC DVD on my US model and it will not play. Fortunately, I have back-up copies that will play. I too am waiting to here about a region-free hack.

Has anybody else played with the sharpness adjustments on the 2930CI? I normally don't increase sharpness, but increased the two settings (light and dark) to +2 and my jaw just dropped. Keep in mind that I am sending my 38" CRT an analog 480p signal. I can't do an A/B comparison on my system with HD-DVD. But from what I remembered watching on a less that optimal set-up at Best Buy the image was very close. I didn't see any of the harshness and noise that you normally get with increasing sharpness -- well maybe a bit of noise. Anybody else have this experience? My guess is that folks using an upscaled signal will have different experiences from those using 480p like me.

I can't help but wonder what we are going to get when Denon/Silicon Optics applies this technology to a 1080p source.

Oh yeah. The deadline has passed and there is not way that I am returning this puppy. As Steve Jobs said, "This is the year of high definition."

miata,

I believe one of the sharpness controls affects low frequency and the other affects high frequency. I did experiment with these on the Avia sharpness pattern when I demo'd the 2930. Based on the sharpness pattern alone, I didn't see much of a benefit...except possibly for low frequency...but I really didn't spend a ton of time on it to say for sure. The high frequency control didn't seem to matter since I already had sharpness set properly. Manipulating this control only overly-softened or over-sharpened (added EE). I tried to flatten out and balance the overall frequency sweep as much as possible. By and large, it seems just adjusting sharpness via display and leaving the player's sharpness controls at default seemed best. This is on my display, of course - YMMV. Again, maybe tweaking low frequency could have helped a bit.

I own the KDS-R50XBR1 and was interested in the 3930ci and would like to know the best setting for hdmi. I own the 2900 now and have no picture difference between progresive and interlace.This is great set and have over 800 movies in standard .

The Denon DVD-3930CI is indeed shipping now as I just picked up mine today along with a Denon AVR-4306.

I had placed an order in early August through Magnolia and they most recently promised a 10/22 delivery, but found another local retailer last Friday (Digital City) who apparently has better access to the Denon distribution pipeline.

Now, I just need to decide between a Samsung HL-S5688W or a Sony KDS-55A2000 TV. Interconnects between the three will be HDMI and DenonLink.

Just ordered mine from crutchfield they have 13 left ask for rhonda 1-800-388-2911 ext 4068 very helpful

My 3930 was delivered to my doorstep from Crutchfield this morning. Shipped yesterday. Ordered it 30 July.

So far, so good. Have played SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V and some CDs including some HDCDs. Big improvement over my old player, Pioneer DV-47A. Only using 480p via component to 6 yr old 55in Mits CRT RPTV. Will soon replace Mits with new Panasonic PT-AX100 and use HDMI.

How about one of you guys with the '3930 actually in hand starting a new thread with whatever reviews you'd be willing to offer? :) I hope to have my own within the next few days and will add my own two cents.

3910 vs. 2930 Video section comparison.

How does the video section of these players compare? I am going to decide between a used 3910 (maybe new if prices come down) vs. a new 2930. I am currently using a Sony HD CRT (34 HS420) and I am wondering how the upscaled video output (over component or HDMI - I can use either whichever is going to be better) compare on these models. I read about the Macroblocking issue of the 3910 (due to the Faroudja chip in it) but I also heard that HS420 CRT displays do not show this particular as some as displays do.

On the Audio side, I am going to connect to my Denon 3805 with DenonLink3 so my guess is I am not going to really care about the Analog Audio stage of the DVD player.

2930 hasn't been out for long I know but any feedback is welcome.

Another perspective is the used/new aspect. If the models are comparable (in price & quality) would it make sense to invest in the newer 2930 model? Does it support a particular new technology (other than 1080p) that is not supported on 3910? If 3910 has the edge over 2930, would I be taking too much risk by buying a used Denon product?

BTW. how long is the warranty on these players? One year or 3 or more?

Picked up my 3930 today. I have it hooked up to my Denon AVR4806CI.
Still playing on my old analog CRT for the moment. Should have my new HD set in a week or so.

Audio sounds very nice of course. I won't have any real video info to give until the new TV gets here.

Ruin

Picked up my 3930 today. I have it hooked up to my Denon AVR4806CI.
Still playing on my old analog CRT for the moment. Should have my new HD set in a week or so.

Audio sounds very nice of course. I won't have any real video info to give until the new TV gets here.

Ruin
So, let's hear more about the audio, then. :cool:

3910 vs. 2930 Video section comparison.

How does the video section of these players compare? I am going to decide between a used 3910 (maybe new if prices come down) vs. a new 2930. I am currently using a Sony HD CRT (34 HS420) and I am wondering how the upscaled video output (over component or HDMI - I can use either whichever is going to be better) compare on these models. I read about the Macroblocking issue of the 3910 (due to the Faroudja chip in it) but I also heard that HS420 CRT displays do not show this particular as some as displays do.

On the Audio side, I am going to connect to my Denon 3805 with DenonLink3 so my guess is I am not going to really care about the Analog Audio stage of the DVD player.

2930 hasn't been out for long I know but any feedback is welcome.

Another perspective is the used/new aspect. If the models are comparable (in price & quality) would it make sense to invest in the newer 2930 model? Does it support a particular new technology (other than 1080p) that is not supported on 3910? If 3910 has the edge over 2930, would I be taking too much risk by buying a used Denon product?

BTW. how long is the warranty on these players? One year or 3 or more?

I think it's a one year warranty.

I spent about two-and-a-half hours with my demo 3930 unit tonight. A little while back I had the 2930. I don't want to mislead anyone - without actually A/B'ing these players together at virtually the same moment, I can't say definitively how these players compare. I'm basing it on my memory from a few weeks back with the 2930 (which I used for about three weeks pretty extensively).

My display is an ISF'd 57" Sony CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520). I sit about 10 feet back in a dark environment. After calibrating the 3930 (at 1080i HDMI) and viewing my usual "real life" demo material (a variety of different quality DVD movies) these two players seem very similar. For some reason, the 3930 seems as if it might be a hair sharper (I can't say for sure though). Also, it seems I am seeing just a bit more in the way of compression artifacting. This would make sense if the image is a bit sharper. However, the overall image or 'look' (colors, shadow detail, etc.) of the 3930 image reminds me very, very much of the 2930. The Avia 200 Mhz resolution patterns also seem about the same in terms of line detail or structure. The 3930 has no black or white clipping issues, nor YC delay. However, I believe there is a bit of YC delay at 480p component (using the Avia pattern, green looks like it might just be off a bit).

Some have said the 2930 has some form of CUE. I mentioned previously when viewing "Star Wars - A New Hope" that I saw something that wasn't right - I can't say for sure whether or not it was CUE, but the 3930 does not exhibit it (nor do the Denon 2900 or Oppo 970). Whatever it is on the 2930, I only noticed for a few seconds of time on one out of 15-20 different discs I used. I don't know how often this issue would come up.

My thoughts may evolve as I use the 3930 over the next few days, but at this point I can say these players seem very close.

Hi David,

Thanks for the review. How good are these new Denon 2930 or 3930 at improving the image of old DVDs, eg. reducing noise, bringing out more detail?


Venom

The warranty on the 3930 is only one year (bah).

Currently listening to Holst:The Planets in DVD-A over Dlink. Though I have a nice 5.1 set of analog interconnects, I doubt I will use them. I prefer to get the Audyssey adjustment through my receiver rather than just set the delays in the player. Technically the DACs in the 3930 are a teensie bit better than in the AVR4806CI, but it is so miniscule that I doubt I can hear the difference given the limits of my speakers (Polk LSi25,LSiC,LSi9).

They dynamics really beat the heck out of my pos Sony player. I don't have another high end player to rate it against, so I can'r really toss around alot of imaging. noise floor, etc. etc. comparisons.

Dang it sounds nice though.

It did take me by suprise for a bit as it would not actually play the DVD-A tracks, only the Dolby or DTS tracks on my DVD-As. Switching the player in the setup from Video mode to Audio mode solved that problem. It seems to me that this should be a button on the remote. Pity its not.

Still waiting to do video tests, but just hooking it up with s-video it looks better than my Sony DVD player. :)

Ruin

Hi David,

Thanks for the review. How good are these new Denon 2930 or 3930 at improving the image of old DVDs, eg. reducing noise, bringing out more detail?


Venom

Both players are very good with fair or poor transfers.

Even by default (without any CI settings), both players filter out a good deal of unwanted noise without removing detail -- better than the Toshiba HD-A1 or Oppo 970 which I've compared to at some point. I would guess the outstanding deinterlacing and scaling are at least partly responsible. I know Denon advertises "Noise Shaped Video™ reduces noise in the video signal" in these two players. I know it sounds like marketing spin, but there might be something to it.

Note, I do not recommend using the MPEG setting which is supposed to supress MPEG artifacts. It makes the image look plastic and erases detail. I briefly experimented with the DNR settings...can't say if they really offer any value.

I think it's a one year warranty.

I spent about two-and-a-half hours with my demo 3930 unit tonight. A little while back I had the 2930.

[.....]

My thoughts may evolve as I use the 3930 over the next few days, but at this point I can say these players seem very close.

David, thanks for the 2930 CI vs 3930 CI. Anyone with 3910 vs. 2930 CI comparison?

I'd be interested in audio quality comments using the analog outs as opposed to D-Link.

I'll be using the analogs for music.

I'd be interested in audio quality comments using the analog outs as opposed to D-Link.

I'll be using the analogs for music.
I think it depends on the Denon rcvr you use.

I compared the analog outs (stereo and multi-ch) to both Toslink and D-link digital signals from the 2930 to my Denon 3805.

To my ears the analog outs from the 2930 sound superior to the digital to analog conversion of the 3805. The analog sounds fuller and richer and has more spatial depth.

I was listening to (and A/B-ing) the new Krall CD this evening and the difference is fairly noticable. The 3805's DACs (though the same BB model # as the 2930) produce a thinner sound that has a flatter soundfield. The DAC's and processing of the 2930 create a more dimentional soundscape.

If you have a different receiver, run digital-out and utilize the Audessy (?) eq stuff, you may wind up with a superior sound, but I wouldn't know.

So... of course YMMV.

cheers

shane

I too am in the same situation as Arcin.

I'm able to get hold of the 2930 and the 3910 at the same price.

Is the 2930 now as good as the 3910 was, or is the 3910 still the better player to buy?

Thanks

James

Remember, the xx10 series has serious problems with many burned DVD-Rs. I have a few discs that will choke any of the -10 series Denon players and HD-DVD players, but play just fine in all Blu-Ray players and any other regular DVD player I've tried.

FWIW, the burned disc played fine on the 1730, but my dealer didn't have any 2930s or 3930s on the floor when I tried my experiment.

My 3910 with firmware 6609E played every type of burned DVD media which I tried yet. DVD+/-R, DVD+/-R DL, with booktype DVD-ROM, or normal. DVD-R DL (Verbatim 4x) surprised me, no problem with 3910.

I think it depends on the Denon rcvr you use.

I compared the analog outs (stereo and multi-ch) to both Toslink and D-link digital signals from the 2930 to my Denon 3805.

To my ears the analog outs from the 2930 sound superior to the digital to analog conversion of the 3805. The analog sounds fuller and richer and has more spatial depth.

I was listening to (and A/B-ing) the new Krall CD this evening and the difference is fairly noticable. The 3805's DACs (though the same BB model # as the 2930) produce a thinner sound that has a flatter soundfield. The DAC's and processing of the 2930 create a more dimentional soundscape.

If you have a different receiver, run digital-out and utilize the Audessy (?) eq stuff, you may wind up with a superior sound, but I wouldn't know.

So... of course YMMV.

cheers

shane

Thanks Shane.

The player will be doing double duty in two systems. As a music player in my 2 channel system where analog outs are the only option and a DVD player in other system which uses a Marantz SR7000. The chips in Marants IIRC are Crystal something or others.
I'm fine with Toslink for movies but am inclined to use the analogs outs in this instance for MCH music. I figure the 2930 DACs will be better than the Marantz.

Any reveiws on the 3930ci yet mine is coming on monday morning and would like to hear some input on audio and video i am using avm20 kds-r50xbr1

I have seen quite a bit of discussion in the home theater mags about transitioning to 1080P/24fps played at 1080P/72 Hz with each original frame repeated 3 times as the ultimate for film playback. (Mainly with BluRay and new Pioneer and Sony displays.) I was planning to get the 3930 as my last SD-DVD player. I know at present it will not output the 24 fps.

1) Would a firmware upgrade to the 3930 be able to add output @ 1080P/24 fps? I believe the Realta can do this.

2) Or would the new display devices be able to extract the now upscalled 24 original frames out of the 30 fps (throw away the 3:2 pulldown frames) to accomplish the same thing?

Anyone here upgrade from the 1930CI? I just got it and it looks pretty good on my 35" mits CRT but looks pretty bad hooked up to my 65". I spent a lot of time calibrating it and it now looks better but doesn't look as good as my 5 year old Sony 9000es DVD player. It tried hooking it up both HDMI to DVI as well as Component - both using very high quality cables. The component out had much more vivid colors but it was very blended and wasn't as detailed. I'm returning my DVD player but wondering if I should bother with the 2930- hard to say unless anyone here as actually compared both on a large TV - e.g (55+ inches)

Remember, the xx10 series has serious problems with many burned DVD-Rs. I have a few discs that will choke any of the -10 series Denon players and HD-DVD players, but play just fine in all Blu-Ray players and any other regular DVD player I've tried.

FWIW, the burned disc played fine on the 1730, but my dealer didn't have any 2930s or 3930s on the floor when I tried my experiment.Although it's true Denons are picky, maybe people with problems use cheap discs. I can only assume this to be the reason why it works for some and not for others.

Thanks Shane.

The player will be doing double duty in two systems. As a music player in my 2 channel system where analog outs are the only option and a DVD player in other system which uses a Marantz SR7000. The chips in Marants IIRC are Crystal something or others.
I'm fine with Toslink for movies but am inclined to use the analogs outs in this instance for MCH music. I figure the 2930 DACs will be better than the Marantz.
That's more or less what I do.
I have the analogs out for music and Toslink out for movies because the settings for the analog are somewhat different than I would want for movies (extended subwoofer control) and having to get into the 2930's menu's each time would be combersome.

So the three connections out of the 2930 for me are:
2-ch analog for stereo CD's
5.1-ch analog for multi-ch SACD and DVD-a's
Toslink for DD and DTS movies.

shane

Although it's true Denons are picky, maybe people with problems use cheap discs. I can only assume this to be the reason why it works for some and not for others.
Perhaps... but I have had no issues with any discs. Cheapo OfficeDepo generic brand or expensive Sony or TDK or Maxell. All work, no problems on my 2930.

shane

Perhaps... but I have had no issues with any discs. Cheapo OfficeDepo generic brand or expensive Sony or TDK or Maxell. All work, no problems on my 2930.

shaneI've mentioned before that it could be the -30 series players are better about playing burned DVDs; the -10 series was horrible.

My 3910 with firmware 6609E played every type of burned DVD media which I tried yet. DVD+/-R, DVD+/-R DL, with booktype DVD-ROM, or normal. DVD-R DL (Verbatim 4x) surprised me, no problem with 3910.Well all I can say is I have two DVD-Rs I took with me, and they died at the exact same place on all five 3910s and all three 5910s in the store as well as their two HD-DVD players.

All other players I had a chance to try, from the 1730 to players from most other manufacturers to the Samsung Blu-Ray player had zero issues with the same discs.

I purcased a 3930ci ,i plan to use hdmi to a KDS-R50XBR1 should i use 1080i or 720p for the best picture it will be here tomorrow or do A/B compare i do have avia disc also i have back up dvd+r that i will try in the .I will let you know how play back

1080i should be the preferred output for your display, but try 1080i, 720p, and even 480p to see which you prefer.

I have seen quite a bit of discussion in the home theater mags about transitioning to 1080P/24fps played at 1080P/72 Hz with each original frame repeated 3 times as the ultimate for film playback. (Mainly with BluRay and new Pioneer and Sony displays.) I was planning to get the 3930 as my last SD-DVD player. I know at present it will not output the 24 fps.

1) Would a firmware upgrade to the 3930 be able to add output @ 1080P/24 fps? I believe the Realta can do this.

2) Or would the new display devices be able to extract the now upscalled 24 original frames out of the 30 fps (throw away the 3:2 pulldown frames) to accomplish the same thing?
I would buy a 3930 in a heartbeat if it did #1. I sent a PM to Jeff T. of Denon with this request but unfortunately I doubt they will do it. Most people aren't aware of judder so ignorance is bliss, I suppose. But on a big display, if you've seen film-based content displayed at 48Hz you can really appreciate the smooth pans, and of course you'll then become really sensitized to judder from 3:2 pulldown. Film-based material can never truly look like film if it's displayed at 60Hz. The thing is, with new displays that are capable of handling 24/48/72Hz it makes much more sense for a player or video processor to offer that as an output option.

I think the only thing that can do #2 is the DVDO iScan VP50. The VP50 would reinterlace the signal and then deinterlace it again to accomplish this. It takes some processing power to figure out which frame to discard in a 3:2 sequence, especially since the original source material may have been making transitions from film to video and back again.

Bought the 3930Ci on Friday from ListenUp in Denver - got 10% off list without even asking (the way it should be done!).

Initial impressions are it's a really nice player - solid build, and it's physically very big. I replaced a Denon DVD-2900 which was a terrific player for surround music and DVD. My TV is a Samsung HLS-5687W (full 1080p). I have an older Denon receiver - AVR-3803, and Paradigm Studio Reference speakers.

The video is really detailed - I played one of my favorite music DVDs - The Corrs Unplugged - and noticed detail I had never seen before - everything from layered definition in the singers' hair to little pock marks in some of the band members' faces (too much clarity??? ;-). The depth of field was very impressive - not bad for a DVD recorded in a low-light studio setting.

Audio was spectacular, as I expected. I am a big fan of the Denon sound, and the new player doesn't disappoint. I haven't had time for any real critical listening yet, but the few samples I did listen to of SACD and DVD-A sounded great. No problems playing a CDR I made. Haven't tried any homemade DVDs yet.

The manual is down to Denon standards - pretty useless unless you know what you're doing. It's better than the 2900's was, so there is hope...

I connected HDMI directly to the TV, Toslink (for DVDs), plus both the 5.1 analog (for SACD & DVD-A) and the 2-CH analog (for my outdoor speakers) to the 3803. You have to fiddle with the DVD setup menu a bit to figure out the correct settings, which I found confusing. I think if you connect the HDMI to a 2 Ch source (the TV) it disables the speaker size and distance settings - I was unable to access them from the setup menu. The setup menu is good, not great - pretty typical.

One semi-annoying thing is the player 's display flashes the HDMI display light when the TV is not turned on - almost like a warning light that you've done something wrong. So when you just want to use the player for music, the light flashes all the time like it's looking for the HDMI to output sound. Not a big deal, really - the light is tiny and you can turn the whole display off - but it is odd. It's possible I've done something wrong in the setup, of course!

I output the player to 1080p - you can scroll through the output choices. Interestingly, the "Auto" setting outputs to 1080i, not 1080p - but I think I actually like the 1080i setting better - it's a little less grainy. I'm going to give it a thorough test tonight with "The Return of the King" or the new X-Men movie - I'll report back.

So bottom line so far is it's a step up from the 2900 - which as I said is a rock solid performer - but with time and tweaks I'm sure it will be even better. I want this to be my last SD DVD player, so to me it's worth the investment for the return on quality. I can't rave about it yet, but so far I'm very happy.

New toys are always so much fun...

Hey mcd4959.
I've got the 2930, so these comments are based on that.

I've connected an HDMI to it, and yes, the thing does flash when the TV is not on. Small and dim behind my smokey glass, it really is not a bothersome detail.

That said, all the audio controls are available to me, but I think you need to have the D-Link turned off in order to access them. Make sure you do that since you're not using it.

Anyway... try that, and congrats on the new player.

shane

From the 1930, I couldn't figure out how to swap between 480p-1080i using the remote. Easy from the unit but I couldn't figure out how to do it from the remote. I thought I could do an a/b comparison better if I was stationary and facing the screen directly. Is this possible from the remote?

I recently got a Denon 2930ci and it seems like a great player so far. Currently I have it hooked up to a 35" CRT. I will be getting a Samsung HLS 7178 in a couple days that I will be using and HDMI connection with.

I was wondering what is the best settings for the DVD player to use when I adjust my TV using DVE? I don't want the player to tweak the signal at all if that's even possible. Just looking for the most neutral way to send a signal to the set with the least amount of processing so I can get my TV adjusted properly. I hope to someday soon do an ISF calibration too so this will be helpfull when that time comes too. Also what is the best output to use for this? HDMI I would assume since there is no A/D conversion anywhere.

Once the set is adjusted properly, then I will tweak the player to hopefully get an even better picture. Any technical information or advice will be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this question has been asked and answered previously. This is such a long thread it's hard to remember what was discussed and what wasn't.

Thanks

I recently got a Denon 2930ci and it seems like a great player so far. Currently I have it hooked up to a 35" CRT. I will be getting a Samsung HLS 7178 in a couple days that I will be using and HDMI connection with.

I was wondering what is the best settings for the DVD player to use when I adjust my TV using DVE? I don't want the player to tweak the signal at all if that's even possible. Just looking for the most neutral way to send a signal to the set with the least amount of processing so I can get my TV adjusted properly. I hope to someday soon do an ISF calibration too so this will be helpfull when that time comes too. Also what is the best output to use for this? HDMI I would assume since there is no A/D conversion anywhere.

Once the set is adjusted properly, then I will tweak the player to hopefully get an even better picture. Any technical information or advice will be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this question has been asked and answered previously. This is such a long thread it's hard to remember what was discussed and what wasn't.

Thanks

The optimal settings can/will vary according to light conditions, display, etc. Just use DVE for calibration and try (and calibrate) a variety of different inputs/scanrates. Experimentation is the key.

One semi-annoying thing is the player 's display flashes the HDMI display light when the TV is not turned on - almost like a warning light that you've done something wrong. So when you just want to use the player for music, the light flashes all the time like it's looking for the HDMI to output sound. Not a big deal, really - the light is tiny and you can turn the whole display off - but it is odd. It's possible I've done something wrong in the setup, of course!


The HDMI will flash all the time even if you have the TV on if you are using component out as well. Basically, if it doesn't make an HDMI connection with anything, it flashes.

I have not found a way to stop it. The manual is even less usefull than usual for Denon.

Otherwise I really like the unit.

Ruin

Perhaps... but I have had no issues with any discs. Cheapo OfficeDepo generic brand or expensive Sony or TDK or Maxell. All work, no problems on my 2930.

shaneMaybe we can move to software/hardware. What software/hardware do you use? I'm still waiting to get a 3930, but anyone with a model 10 might want to try Shane's method.

The HDMI will flash all the time even if you have the TV on if you are using component out as well. Basically, if it doesn't make an HDMI connection with anything, it flashes.

I have not found a way to stop it. The manual is even less usefull than usual for Denon.



You can turn the HDMI output OFF. Just press the HDMI Select button on the front panel or remote. Alternatively you can switch off the entire front panel display by pressing the DIMMER button on the remote.

Hey mcd4959.
I've got the 2930, so these comments are based on that.

I've connected an HDMI to it, and yes, the thing does flash when the TV is not on. Small and dim behind my smokey glass, it really is not a bothersome detail.

That said, all the audio controls are available to me, but I think you need to have the D-Link turned off in order to access them. Make sure you do that since you're not using it.

Anyway... try that, and congrats on the new player.

shane

I do have the D-Link set to OFF, but still no access to speaker setup beyond 2 channel. If I choose the Multi setting, I get the speaker configuration screen, but that shows front large channels only, and shows no center, sub or surrounds. The menu does not allow me access to make changes. I'm confused.

Shouldn't there be a setup for optical audio somewhere? I've been throught the setup menu several times and can't figure out what the problem can be. My 2900 had speaker setup screens that worked perfectly. I am getting full surround as the receiver handles that processing anyway, so is this a problem I should just let go?

I'm a little frustrated that a $1,500 DVD player isn't clearer on direction. But that's Denon's one major downfall, IMO. I do keep buying their stuff, so who's the eejit???

This forum has always been helpful for oddball issues that arise, so I'm hoping someone may have some ideas. Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=mcd4959]
Audio was spectacular, as I expected. I am a big fan of the Denon sound, and the new player doesn't disappoint. I haven't had time for any real critical listening yet, but the few samples I did listen to of SACD and DVD-A sounded great. No problems playing a CDR I made. Haven't tried any homemade DVDs yet.

So bottom line so far is it's a step up from the 2900 - which as I said is a rock solid performer - but with time and tweaks I'm sure it will be even better. I want this to be my last SD DVD player, so to me it's worth the investment for the return on quality. I can't rave about it yet, but so far I'm very happy.

New toys are always so much fun...[/QUOTE

Could you give me specifics of the video quality differences between the 2900 and 3930? What does a 'step up' mean in the way of PQ between the two?

And, how would you compare the AQ in multi-channel between the two? Is the 3930 a BIG step up vs. the 2900?

Thanks...

Could you give me specifics of the video quality differences between the 2900 and 3930? What does a 'step up' mean in the way of PQ between the two?

And, how would you compare the AQ in multi-channel between the two? Is the 3930 a BIG step up vs. the 2900?

Thanks...

I really haven't had enough time with the unit yet to give an in-depth review - I planned on watching a couple of movies last night, but life got in the way...

So far, I can just say I've noticed little things - a little more "depth" in the image, and more detail - strands of hair, detail in clothing - those kinds of things. The color is very rich as well - great contrast. I haven't noticed any bugs yet. Now, I also have a new 1080p TV, and that helps as well.

I haven't had a "OMYGOD!" experiences with it yet - it looks better than the 2900, but not night and day better.

As for the audio, it just sounds great. I may be having a setup issue with the audio overall as I mentioned in another post, so I don't think my opinion can be of value yet in this area.

I hope to have time this week to put the player through some AV torture tests and I promise to post my findings here.

I really haven't had enough time with the unit yet to give an in-depth review - I planned on watching a couple of movies last night, but life got in the way...

So far, I can just say I've noticed little things - a little more "depth" in the image, and more detail - strands of hair, detail in clothing - those kinds of things. The color is very rich as well - great contrast. I haven't noticed any bugs yet. Now, I also have a new 1080p TV, and that helps as well.

I haven't had a "OMYGOD!" experiences with it yet - it looks better than the 2900, but not night and day better.

As for the audio, it just sounds great. I may be having a setup issue with the audio overall as I mentioned in another post, so I don't think my opinion can be of value yet in this area.

I hope to have time this week to put the player through some AV torture tests and I promise to post my findings here.

I've noticed with the 2930 and 3930 the more DVDs you watch with it, the more the differences/improvements start to show - more and more subtle things appear over time.

A question for those who have the 2930 or 3930 and are using the HDMI connection for video - which signal format is best for a 1080p TV capable of receiving a 1080p signal? YCbCr, RGB, or PC Res? If I'm reading the Denon manual correctly - I know, I'm brave for venturing into the manual ;-) - it looks like the PC res (1280 x 1024/60hz) would be my best choice. Am I wrong?

If you display is capable of 10 bit, then YCbCr. My CRT RPTV display (being 8 bit) will clip the while and black levels with YCbCr unless I alter the player's settings. As a result, I just use RGB to prevent the clipping and avoid potentially skewing the grayscale.

Just picked up my '3930 and, without even getting it out of the box, I was a little dismayed to see that it was Chinese-made. Funny, since Denon's mid to higher end AVR's are made in Japan. I'm not sure what significance there is to that, but I was just surprised to see a player at this price point being Chinese made. Hope it's not a cheap Coby in disguise.
Anyway, I'll report back on first impressions by mid-week.

but life got in the way...

I don't think that's allowed here when people are waiting
for valuable reviews! ;)

I do look forward to your in-depth review, as well as reviews from
others....

You can turn the HDMI output OFF. Just press the HDMI Select button on the front panel or remote. Alternatively you can switch off the entire front panel display by pressing the DIMMER button on the remote.

If I turn HDMI off my component connection doesnt work. Weird eh?

Ruin

If I turn HDMI off my component connection doesnt work. Weird eh?

Ruin

Yeah, bit weird. Thought the Component Output would still be active. The factory default for HDMI is off. Are all the other settings correct (Component Out etc)?

All I know is that I could not get any output from my component connections until I turned HDMI on. It drove me nuts trying to figure out why I could not get anything over component.

Ruin

There are three things that bug me about the 2930 and 3930 (however, they are certainly not deal breakers):

1. Inability to play 480p component and HDMI at the same time.
2. Inability to properly zoom non-anamorphic widescreen material.
3. Somewhat slow responsiveness (especially when selecting chapter selections, etc. -- noted more on the 2930).

What's funny is my $150 Oppo 970 does all three things very well.

I just hooked up my '3930 late last night and while I haven't had a chance yet to audition it thoroughly, a few oddities did jump out at me, especially when trying to follow the manual. (Big surprise. :rolleyes: ) Don't take these as overall criticisms of the player; at first impression it's a stellar performer. These are just frustrating or confusing quirks for which I'm seeking advice here from anyone who's already dealt with them.

1. I can't use my Denon AVR's remote "Input" button to flip between the DenonLink connection and the 5.1 "Ext. In" analog connections in order to compare sound quality between the receiver's and player's respective processing capabilities. Apparently, the DenonLink setting in the Initial Settings must be turned off before listening to 5.1 channel analog audio from the player. This was probably my own ineptitude at the late hour, but then when I went back into the setup menu, it wouldn't let me turn off DenonLink.

2. On the video side of things, there's no explanation in the menu as to whether the "YCbCR" or "RGB" is the proper HDMI setting to use. I happen to have an LCD rear projection (microdisplay) TV with DVI input, but I have no idea what option is best for it.

3. Also, concerning the video settings, the manual makes no sense in the setup for "Audio/Video Sync," i.e., Progressive, Interlaced, HDMI or "Others." The manual says to select "Others" when you want to view all of those pictures "simultaneously." Then, there's an asterisk saying "to syncronize the audio signals set to something other than "Others." What the hell does that mean?

4. Back to audio issues, I thought that if I used the player's 2ch analog outputs, into my receiver's analog stereo inputs with the receiver in "Direct" mode for that set of inputs, that I'd be employing the 3930's supposedly superior DACs. Yet, the DenonLink light is still lit on the player. What's going on with that?

That's about it for now, if anyone can help me with those issues, I'll come back with a more complete review tomorrow. But, again, this looks to be a very high performing player.

I received my 3930 last night. Upgrading from a 2910.
First Impression: Its big and heavy for a DVD player. Bigger than everything except my amp. It didn't fit on my rack well, especially with the DVI-HDMI adapter and thick cable sticking out the back.

Connected:
Video: HDMI output RGB 1080i to Hitachi 51UWX20B (not ISFed) with Monoprice HDMI to DVI adapter and 25 ft DVI cable.
2 Channel audio: Stereo out to analog pass-thru (with analog 80 Hz crossover) on an Outlaw processor.
Multi-Channel: Coax digital

Set to IRE 0 and normal black then calibrated with DVE.
Slight adjustment to most settings. The major changes was having to increase the color setting by about 15 and increasing sharpness a bit.

I noticed something funny on the Snell and Wilcox pattern with the moving concentric circles. The first time it played it held the circles longer and only had 2 "reflections" the moment it stopped and changed directions. Everytime the track repeated the circles broke apart and there were many more reflections with any movement. Not sure if this means anything

I then watched a few familiar clips, listened to some music, and watched a movie I had not seen before. (Resident Evil Apocalype, It was late and the shortest movie available). Could not readily A/B the players

1) Video - I am no expert, not using the greatest display, and only saw a few clips I was familiar with. I noticed some improved detail especially in characters faces in the foreground. Overall it was about the same with the backround detail as the 2910. Although I was suprised to notice subtle convection currents from candles in the backround of one scene. Colors looked a little too vivid at the higher color setting. I am not sure why because the test pattern looked correct. It also seemed shadow areas were brighter. I thought motion was smoother although I have mostly been watching over-compressed HDTV recently with severe motion artifact.

2) Audio - Suprised by the difference in the 2 players. Soundstage was markedly improved with better placement and envelopment. The music had a much warmer sound, slightly more analogish. However, the instruments especially those lower toned seemed to be emphasized more than vocals.

3) Other - Menu selections are fairly quick but when starting video playback the screen goes black and there is quite a delay before the image appears. Enough that I would look to the display to see what is going on.

I was able to skip previews, FBI warnings, and commentary disclaimers on the 3 disks I tried.

I didn't notice the layer change.

HDMI connector sucks, the weight of the heavy cable and added fulcrum length of the adaptor really bend the HDMI plug almost 20-30 degrees.

I did not hear any fan noise. Although the HD on my DVR makes enough racket to cover up quite a bit.

I noticed something funny on the Snell and Wilcox pattern with the moving concentric circles. The first time it played it held the circles longer and only had 2 "reflections" the moment it stopped and changed directions. Everytime the track repeated the circles broke apart and there were many more reflections with any movement. Not sure if this means anythingI'm not sure how the 3930 produces 1080i but I assume that the deinterlacer part of the Realta chip is not being used since you have the player set to output 1080i. I'd be curious how 720p looks if your TV is 720p capable.

I'm not sure how the 3930 produces 1080i but I assume that the deinterlacer part of the Realta chip is not being used since you have the player set to output 1080i. I'd be curious how 720p looks if your TV is 720p capable.

I thought any upscaled image has to be deinterlaced first.

I had a similar question like that before.

480i-> going to 1080i native CRT resolution.
I was told that it would de-interlace to 480p and then the scalar would kick in and do 1080i.

But it is very counter-intuitive.

Note : notice the difference of fields vs. frames below.

480i is draws 240-line fields at 60 fields/sec on the screen. Effectively showing 30 frames / sec 480 line image. 1080i does the same by drawing 540-line fields 60 times. The fixed-pixel displays are different because they are progressive in nature and draw the whole frame (720 lines in 720p case) at 60 frames / sec (i am not 100% if it is 60 times, but I am pretty sure it is)

Deinterlacer generates 480-line full frame @ 60 fps (frames/sec).

The only interprentation I have is the following :
The 480 full frame is upslaced to 540 full frame and is "interpreted" as one field of the 1080i display. Since The 480 line-frames come at 60 times/sec this would generate the correct amount of data for a 1080i display.

BUT : You won't be showing a 1080 resolution picture here. You are effectively showing a 540 resolution picture at double the refresh rate. As you all know 1080i HD standard has more resolution than 720p, but because of the refreash rate of 60 frames/sec in 720p and 30 frames/sec (60 fields/sec) in 1080i, 720p has is better for fast action, sports, etc. because the fields from the same frame will result in a flicker-like viewing experience.

So : Going from 480i to 1080i (as described above) is equivalent to going to a 540p content. Not a 1080i content. It is 540p displayed as 1080i where fields displayed are actually frames created by the de-interlacer.

Is it better or worse than trying to generate a 1080 FRAME and then send it to the display at 540-line field at a time (real 1080i HD content) I am not sure...

But I really would like to know what the chip is doing inside....

I received my 3930 last night. Upgrading from a 2910. First Impression:

Connected:
2 Channel audio: Stereo out to analog pass-thru (with analog 80 Hz crossover) on an Outlaw processor.
Multi-Channel: Coax digital

2) Audio - Suprised by the difference in the 2 players. Soundstage was markedly improved with better placement and envelopment. The music had a much warmer sound, slightly more analogish. However, the instruments especially those lower toned seemed to be emphasized more than vocals.

Question : Listening to 2-channel audio over Analog outs? Are you listening to any Multichannel Audio (SACD/ DVD-A) over analog vs. HDMI? any comments?

I'm glad to see these models released. I have a 50" Panasonic plasma and experienced alot of M/Blocking with other Denon DVD units using the Faroudja(?) chip.

Knowing so little about tech issues I've tried to read the spec sheets from the Denon website about these two units to look for differences. To this newbie there seem to be very few.

I have the Denon AVR 3806 which seems to be a pretty good receiver. Will the 2930ci perform as well as the 3930ci using the Denon Link III connection?

I will be playing more CD's than watching movies, unless it is a musical DVD.

Thanks,
David

I thought any upscaled image has to be deinterlaced first.You may be right - I guess my point is that a 1080i image being sent to the TV is not deinterlaced so what would a properly deinterlaced 720p image look like? For example, my Sony SXRD TV displays everything at 1080p so when I feed it a 1080i signal the TV deinterlaces it to 1080p. Any artifacts generated in that process could be due to the TV - not the DVD player. OTOH, sending a 720p image to the TV guarantees the Realta chip in the 3930 is deinterlacing the image which may result in fewer artifacts being generated in the TV. Personally with my SXRD I fully expect a Realta deinterlaced 720p image to look better than a 1080i image which is deinterlaced in my TV.

You may be right - I guess my point is that a 1080i image being sent to the TV is not deinterlaced so what would a properly deinterlaced 720p image look like? For example, my Sony SXRD TV displays everything at 1080p so when I feed it a 1080i signal the TV deinterlaces it to 1080p. Any artifacts generated in that process could be due to the TV - not the DVD player. OTOH, sending a 720p image to the TV guarantees the Realta chip in the 3930 is deinterlacing the image which may result in fewer artifacts being generated in the TV. Personally with my SXRD I fully expect a Realta deinterlaced 720p image to look better than a 1080i image which is deinterlaced in my TV.

Yes, in theory you always want a progressive output, so 720p should be best in your situation and to avoid additional conversions, etc. I would think that's the best situation with your SXRD.

It's a little different in my situation. When I upscale to 1080i on my CRT RPTV display, it's very clear the image has been deinterlaced as the image looks amazingly better than just sending 480i, for example (which clearly is interlaced all the way and looks very poor).

My display does accept a 720p, but it upconverts that signal to 1080i and then downconverts the image to 540p to actually display it. Doing A/B comparisons, 1080i always looks slightly more natural than 720p on my display and it makes sense since there are fewer conversions and 1080i is native for my display.

In all honesty, 480p is probably best for my display regarding DVD since it appears to display 480p natively. But, I don't like occasionally seeing horizontal scanlines so if I upconvert to 1080i, the lines become invisible and the image is smoother. However, I lose a slight amount of sharpness as a result. The reality is the image still looks great either way I choose.

2. On the video side of things, there's no explanation in the menu as to whether the "YCbCR" or "RGB" is the proper HDMI setting to use. I happen to have an LCD rear projection (microdisplay) TV with DVI input, but I have no idea what option is best for it.



As I understand it DVI can only pass a digital RGB signal and not YCbCr.


3. Also, concerning the video settings, the manual makes no sense in the setup for "Audio/Video Sync," i.e., Progressive, Interlaced, HDMI or "Others." The manual says to select "Others" when you want to view all of those pictures "simultaneously." Then, there's an asterisk saying "to syncronize the audio signals set to something other than "Others." What the hell does that mean?




Those settings are so that the player automatically sorts out any potential lip-sync problems when it's processing the image. If you use the interlaced output set it to that, if you use progressive, choose that instead, etc etc.

Those settings (A/V Sync) are so that the player automatically sorts out any potential lip-sync problems when it's processing the image. If you use the interlaced output set it to that, if you use progressive, choose that instead, etc etc.
I understood the application, just not the manual's instructions. But from what you're telling me, I understand that if I'm using an HDMI connection from the player into my receiver and then out to my DVI-enabled TV, rather than a set of component connectors, I should select HDMI, right? And, as you also mentioned, when it comes to a TV with DVI input, that RGB is the proper setting.
I still don't understand what "Others" means, though, and what the manual's talking about when it refers to when one wants to "view interlaced, progressive and HDMI pictures simultaneously."
I'll tell you...Denon makes some very nice gear, but of all the products from various electronics companies I've used over the decades, their manuals are by far the most poorly written.

If the HDMI output is what you're using then select the HDMI setting. Might be worth trying both the RGB and YCbCr settings to see which you prefer. I'd imagine the display converts any incoming signal to RGB anyway though.

For the "others" setting I can only assume you'd use that if you were connected to a couple of displays (TV and PJ) and wanted to use multiple outputs at the same time.

I plan to purhase a 1080p DVD player. Anyone compared the 3930 vs Marantz 9600?

If the HDMI output is what you're using then select the HDMI setting. Might be worth trying both the RGB and YCbCr settings to see which you prefer. I'd imagine the display converts any incoming signal to RGB anyway though.

For the "others" setting I can only assume you'd use that if you were connected to a couple of displays (TV and PJ) and wanted to use multiple outputs at the same time.YCbCr has the capability to send 10bit video which the player supports. RGB is 8bit only. If your display supports 10bit incoming YCbCr, you should use it. For 8bit video, you should see no difference between the two.

larry

YCbCr has the capability to send 10bit video which the player supports. RGB is 8bit only. If your display supports 10bit incoming YCbCr, you should use it. For 8bit video, you should see no difference between the two.

larry
And how would you know if your display supports 10bit incoming YCbCR?

And how would you know if your display supports 10bit incoming YCbCR?

It should say in some of your display's documentation. If not, you can try to search the Web for it. However, it doesn't matter since you're limited to DVI on your display so 8 bit is your max.

Any comments about using a 2930 with a 40' HDMI cable?

I wonder if I can get into problems due to a weak HDMI signal although the cable being the Supra certified one (DVI-to-HDMI).

Thanks.

Question to anyone:

Are most film-based, Region 1 DVDs simply 3:2? Are there many 6:4 or 3:2:3:2:2 for example? I ask because the Realta supports these kind of cadences where as the Reon does not.

I'm not sure how the 3930 produces 1080i but I assume that the deinterlacer part of the Realta chip is not being used since you have the player set to output 1080i. I'd be curious how 720p looks if your TV is 720p capable.

The image must be deinterlaced to be scaled. I am not sure what my TV does with the 1080i signal it receives. It is a 540P/1080i TV but only has 7" CRTs and the 9" CRTs were the only ones that could do full 1080i at the time of purchase. My set has a poor deinterlacer and I think a poor scaler. I tested 480P, 720P, and 1080i with my 2910 and found the 1080i to be the best.

I assume it is not scaling the image again, but that would require line doubling the 1080i and scaling by the TV. If that were the case I think giving the TV 480P would be the best so it would only be scaled once (even with the inferior scaler)

720P would require my TV to scale then deinterlace. I know that would add extra processing by my inferior TV. I am not a good one to eval that resolution.

Question : Listening to 2-channel audio over Analog outs? Are you listening to any Multichannel Audio (SACD/ DVD-A) over analog vs. HDMI? any comments?.

I only listen to high-rez music in 2 channel. I prefer this to multichannel. And unfortunately I only have 1 pass-thru input with an analog sub crossover so I am using it for 2 channel and letting by processor deal with DVDs.

After spending some more time with the 3930. I don't think it cleans up the image of poor quality DVDs to make it any better than the 2910.

The audio side has great transients and percussion snap but in addition to the larger soundstage was a little fatiguing with extended listening.

Look forward to hearing other peoples opinions.

I received my 3930CI 2 days ago and have been greatly pleased by it. I also own a 9000es and a 2900 and this player has the best near HD playback as of yet . Im using Hdmi 1080i into a KDS-R50xbr1 and have found this a great combo.I may try 720p for sometime and see what it looks like,but i like what i see. I have watched Star Wars, Raiders of lost ark.and several Sacd, DVD audio disks an I am also pleased with what I hear.This is a great player hope to hear more about some user settings from others with this set up.

1. Inability to play 480p component and HDMI at the same time.


are you saying you cannot have HDMI and component output on at the same time ? let say I have the HDMI output connected to a projector, and the component output connected to a TV, I can only get a picture in EITHER of the display, not ALL of them, at the same time ? :eek: If it is, definitely deal breaker for me.

(I know the 3910/2910 does not allow that. U had to choose either a HDMI or a component output. The 5910 allows both at the same time. I thought the x30 had this improved. )

are you saying you cannot have HDMI and component output on at the same time ? let say I have the HDMI output connected to a projector, and the component output connected to a TV, I can only get a picture in EITHER of the display, not ALL of them, at the same time ? :eek: If it is, definitely deal breaker for me.

(I know the 3910/2910 does not allow that. U had to choose either a HDMI or a component output. The 5910 allows both at the same time. I thought the x30 had this improved. )

Yep. You can only use one or the other - not both HDMI and component at the same time. I don't understand why this is the case. As I mentioned before, even my $150 Oppo 970 can do both at the same time.

Ditto even my <$99 dollar Samsung HD860 can do this also.

Question to anyone:

Are most film-based, Region 1 DVDs simply 3:2? Are there many 6:4 or 3:2:3:2:2 for example? I ask because the Realta supports these kind of cadences where as the Reon does not. Film is 24 frames per second. Video is 30 frames per second. Except for the few digitally recorded movies and some "handi-cam" movies, movies are film based. If you watch mostly movies, 3:2 is all you really care about. And the abililty to handle and recover from some encoding "goofs" here and there.

larry

Film is 24 frames per second. Video is 30 frames per second. Except for the few digitally recorded movies and some "handi-cam" movies, movies are film based. If you watch mostly movies, 3:2 is all you really care about. And the abililty to handle and recover from some encoding "goofs" here and there.

larry

That "goof" you mentioned must be what I saw on Star Wars: A New Hope (where there was combing for 2-3 seconds on the 2930 with a moving star destroyer - not an issue with any other player I've tried.)

Yep. You can only use one or the other - not both HDMI and component at the same time. I don't understand why this is the case. As I mentioned before, even my $150 Oppo 970 can do both at the same time.
Hey... not so fast.
When I was testing the unit I had the component and the HDMI connected and active at the same time. I was switching back and forth with the monitor's inputs to A/B the two feeds. This is how and why I decided to go with the HDMI.

If the 3930 doesn't do it, that's a shame, because my 2930 sure does.

shane

Hey... not so fast.
When I was testing the unit I had the component and the HDMI connected and active at the same time. I was switching back and forth with the monitor's inputs to A/B the two feeds. This is how and why I decided to go with the HDMI.

If the 3930 doesn't do it, that's a shame, because my 2930 sure does.

shane

Are you sure about that? The manual says it won't do both at the same time and I couldn't get my demo 2930 to do that.

Are you sure about that? The manual says it won't do both at the same time and I couldn't get my demo 2930 to do that.
According to Denon website:
"In addition, the DVD-3930CI offers all video outputs live, for multiple connection/zone configurations."

dc

I have my 2930CI connected to my display via component and to my receiver via HDMI which is then connected to the display via HDMI.
Both work.

Jack

Sorry, I meant the player will not allow a 480p component progressive scan signal and HDMI signal at the same time.

Sorry, I meant the player will not allow a 480p component progressive scan signal and HDMI signal at the same time.
As soon as I received the 2930 I tested the two settings over component, put it on 480P and never changed it. Shortly thereafter I tested it against various HDMI resolutions into the HDMI input my STB was using, to see if I wanted to order the board or just stick with component. While doing the A / B testing, I never changed the component's setting.

In the several weeks that it took to get the HDMI board I continued to watch via component, having never needed to turn the progressive back on. It had never been off.

Now, do I remember specifically that it somehow didn't automatically switch the progressive signal off when I turned on the HDMI and then turned it back on when I turned off the HDMI? No. I honestly was not paying attention to that. But I can tell you that I've only turned the progressive on once, and it's been on ever since.

Maybe later this weekend if I get the time, I'll test it. 'Till then, I'll just have to trust my aging, feeble memory. And so will you. ;)

shane

OK, as promised, a little more of a review...

I have watched several films and concerts now, and I am very impressed overall with the player. The color detail is rich and lifelike. I have it running 1080i over HDMI to my Samsung 1080p DLP. The 1080p setting shows some graininess, and the 1080i setting is a little softer, which apparently I prefer (who knew??). The detail in the color is really nice - my wife is blown away by the TV and the DVD, and for her to keep repeating over and over how much she loves it proves there is a marked difference from my old DVD-2900 and HLN series DLP.

Put on "Finding Nemo" if you want to see what this player can do with awesome animation. Talk about color! But even watching some older, lower quality concert DVD material looked great.

Soundwise - I watched the "Live at the Royal Opera House" DVD from the Elton John box set - it has the Royal Academy of Music students as the orchestra and choir - and the sound just blew me away. We originally just put the disc on as background music for game playing and ended up cranking up the volume and dimming the lights. Big, spacious sound - tremendous soundstage. Makes me want to upgrade my speakers, 'cause they're 7 years old now and..........maybe I oughta wait for another few months of paychecks...

2CH stereo CD music is also very nice - haven't really sat for critical listening yet with this, but overall sounds great. I use the Pure Direct mode on my Denon receiver for this and the sound is surprisingly different and more open. I always thought that was a gimmick.

SACD and DVD-A sound blissful. Aimee Mann's "Bachelor #2" by MFSL is a 2CH SACD that sounds pristine. Clean, sharp...openness...that word keeps coming up. Natural, not "tinny" sounding.

Overall, I am happy with the purchase. I agree that the video qualities kind of sneak up on you - the more I watch, the more I see. More detail, more depth. I have had zero problems - no macroblocking, no pixellation, no oddball issues really. The menu change is a tad slow, and I have noticed that if you don't set the disc on the tray perfectly, the drawer will still close but then do nothing. Seemed like the 2900 would correct that a bit more, but that could be simply because the drawer closed a little more roughly and the disc would seat itself better. Just don't be a dork and make sure you put the disc in the tray all the way...not that I've ever done that wrong... ;)

I'll post more as it unfolds, but I am very happy right now. The picture and sound are not night and day better than the 2900, but are definitely a step up. If you are critical about this type of stuff (and you are since you're here reading this) you will see and hear a difference. The cost of the player is daunting, and I'm not looking forward to next month's Visa bill, but I know I have a top quality machine that should serve me for years and that erases any worries about price for me.

Tonight I'm finally going to watch the 3rd X-Men movie and see how the player does with action sequences and a lot of dark scenes. Will post results soon.

Anybody else got feedback they'd like to share? :D

When you buy a costly DVD player, with advanced deinterlacing capabilities, it is preferable to use a progressive output mode rather than 1080i. If you use 1080i, the video deinterlacing performance advantage is for the most part, lost, as your TV will do the video deinterlacing. Add to that reinterlacing errors that are introduced in some products and you can see the problem.

Some displays don't handle 720p well, and if this is the case you have to use 480p or 1080i. But in general you are better off using one of the progressive output formats in order to take full advantage of the considerable deinterlacing capabilities in these newer source devices.

It (the Denon) does not have any way to present totally "cleaned up" 1080i to the display, there's no way the Denon 2930/3930 can tell the display device to perform a simple weave on the frames, the display will either perform video deinterlacing using its own algorithms or film deinterlacing using 3:2 pulldown.

For film sourced material, your tv is probably as capable as the denon and in this case 1080i is probably fine (unless your TV can't deinterlace 1080i properly), but certainly not for video sourced discs.

I've had the 3930 for a few days now. I agree with posters who praise its performance with 24-frame originated material. However, I have found two problems.

The first, and most serious, is that the 480i output through HDMI appears to bob the video, at least through the Denon 4860CI, which one would assume would be compatible if anything was. Based on the typical "Faroudja artifact patterns" that the 4806CI produces on the HQV test disk when fed 480i, the 4806CI appears to use a Fourdja deinterlacer and upscaler.

When the analog output of the 3930 is set to 'interlaced' and the result upscaled to 720P using the 4806CI through one of its component inputs, the diagonal interpolation is very smooth, which is typical of the Faroudja de-interlacing. Switching the 4806CI's input to HDMI immediately shows severe jaggies. It looks like only half of the video lines are actually being received by the 4806CI in this mode.

Why would I be worried about this when the 3930 has the touted HQV chip? Unfortunately, to my eyes the HQV chip produces noticeably more deinterlacing errors than the Faroudja on material originated as interlacted video, where "deinterlacing errors" is defined as "artifacts that are obtrusive and distracting, such that they interfere with my enjoyment of the program." In particular, The HQV processing does not handle shallow diagonal lines well. For example, in concert videos, things like gray mic cords against a black stage background often break up into a series of gray and black lines, indicating that the HQV processing was unable to recognize the cord as a single object.

I am keeping the 3930 because it handles 24p material excellently, has no macroblocking (unlike the 3910 I was replacing), and has extremely effective noise reduction. However, with the 480i-over-HDMI problem, I have no ability to use the Faroudja deinterlacing in the receiver while keeping the video in the digital domain. I don't know if this is a bug in the receiver or the DVD player, but I hope that Denon creates a software update that fixes it.

I just can't beleive that the 4806CI does a better job than the 3930CI at anything video related let alone deinterlacing. I was sure that the 3930 had the supperior video section. I have the 3930 running into the 4806CI myself so when I get time I can see if I can duplicate your findings. I am actually using component atm but plan to pick up some HDMI cables soon.

Ruin

I just can't beleive that the 4806CI does a better job than the 3930CI at anything video related let alone deinterlacing. I was sure that the 3930 had the supperior video section. I have the 3930 running into the 4806CI myself so when I get time I can see if I can duplicate your findings. I am actually using component atm but plan to pick up some HDMI cables soon.

Ruin

When Secrets reviewed the DVD5910, they made this observation:

"The only area that the Faroudja solution eclipsed the Realta processing was with diagonal lines. The Faroudja showed less jaggies with extreme diagonals then the Realta. I know Silicon Optix is still tweaking their performance in this area and I look forward to seeing what advancements they’ll make in this regard."

This is exactly what I was seeing.

Perhaps it's the greater sharpness delivered by the HQV chip, but when watching a 480i concert DVD and seeing the clean diagonal on a performer's shoulder break into stairsteps as the angle of the shoulder changed against the dark background of the stage, I found this much more distracting than the generally softer look of the Faroudja that did not cause sudden "stairstep" artifacts like this.

As far as the Denon 4806CI is concerned, the Denon German website states that the European version of this receiver uses the FLI2310, which is the same Faroudja deinterlacing chip used in the Denon DVD3910. Oddly, the Denon U.S. website does not mention Faroudja processing, but I find it hard to believe that Denon makes one version of their latest 1080p video upscaling board for Germany and one for the U.S.

The German site says of the AVC-A11XVA (which appears to be equivalent to the 4806CI):

"Video-Board mit HDMI-Video-Konvertierung, DCDi Faroudja FLI-2310 für De-Interlacing und Upscaling bis zu 1.080p (bei HDMI-Ausgabe) sowie 12-Bit/216 MHz Video-D/A-Wandler"

On the HQV test disk, the DVD3910's deinterlacing and scaling to 720p appeared to have identical performance to the 480i deinterlacing in the 4806CI to 720p. That is, both did very well on the diagonal interpolation and flag tests, were a bit slow to lock onto film cadence (and jumped back to video mode once) during the Super Speedway clip, did not do any visible noise reduction on the test disk's NR segment, and did not lock onto the oddball cadences at the end of the disk (although they worked fine with the 3:2 cadence).

I will await the result of your tests with interest. This sort of thing is usually not a defect in a single unit, but represents a software bug. Please try several output resolutions on the 4806CI; I use 720p HDMI, which is converted to analog using a device that is no longer available but which is well known to AVI Forum readers with the 'legacy display' problem :-).

(My plasma is an old third-gen Panasonic that does not lock to 1080i without severe combing artifacts, but works fine with 720p analog input. I am using the VGA port. This plasma has no digital inputs.)

Could someone else with a 3930 try this and tell me if it's a bug in all players or a fault in my dealer's demo? If it's in all players, it's a MAJOR bug IMHO, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses the stereo outs in addition to the other connectors.

It's very easy to reproduce:

1) Connect the audio to your receiver/amp/TV using the L and R stereo outputs

2) Play just about any disc

3) On pauses, chapter next/forward or anything that causes the audio stream from the disc to pause, there is a midrange pop or scratch output output to the right channel. It's similar in sound to what you hear if you plug an audio cable in or disconnect it while your amp is on or (if you remember them) the sound you get when an LP skips to the next groove - not good.

Note the glitch is output every time the audio stops, not just on occasion. Also on some discs, there are also pops output when the audio starts back up. The pops are also present whenever audio stops on CD, DVD or SACD, so its whenever an audio signal of any type stops being sent to the right channel. My guess is something in the mute circuity is hosed in this particular player, but it could be a design flaw/feature or simply a bug.

Edited to add a few quick review notes:

1) Denon definitely did something to improve media compatability in the xx30 series. I wrote a month or so ago that I had several DVD-Rs that choked 3910s and 5910s on the same chapter; the same discs play flawlessly in the 3930.

2) I'm not sure if the unit uses different DACs for SACD than Dolby Digital/DTS, but where the latter two sound good, SACDs are bright. Steel picks on guitar strings, minimal felt on piano hammers, the sort of thing common to many high end CD players as well, though not the "steel hammers on piano strings" harshness common to many mass market CD and DVD players. If they're different DACs, I know the DD/DTS DACS have been thoroughly broken in (and sound rather good), but the SACD ones likely have not and that may explain the difference. Unfortunately I don't have time to test my theory by setting up a SACD to repeat for a day or so.

3) Layer changes were imperceptible on the discs I tried. I haven't seen a layer change like this since the DVD-2900, but it's possible there are badly placed layer changes that could trip it up and generate a pause. Certainly better than the 1-2 seconds of say the Pioneer DV-79AVi.

4) In case you miss it in the manual (it's documented on page 20), if the HDMI output is active, the component video outputs are interlaced; if the HDMI output is shut off, the component video output mode is set by the appropriate video output setting in the menus (progressive or interlaced.)

5) Denon will never figure out that they really don't need to have the word "STILL" emblazoned across the picture when you pause the disc. The picture's not moving; I can figure out it's paused, and I can't freeze frame something of interest (or just get up to grab a drink) without burning "STILL" into the corner of my screen. Same goes for "NEXT" and "PREV" when changing chapters, but at least those are transient; "STILL" is forever until you press "play," which of course displays "PLAY" on screen for several seconds… :rolleyes:

Could someone else with a 3930 try this and tell me if it's a bug in all players or a fault in my dealer's demo? If it's in all players, it's a MAJOR bug IMHO, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses the stereo outs in addition to the other connectors.

It's very easy to reproduce:

1) Connect the audio to your receiver/amp/TV using the L and R stereo outputs

2) Play just about any disc

3) On pauses, chapter next/forward or anything that causes the audio stream from the disc to pause, there is a midrange pop or scratch output output to the right channel. It's similar in sound to what you hear if you plug an audio cable in or disconnect it while your amp is on or (if you remember them) the sound you get when an LP skips to the next groove - not good.

Note the glitch is output every time the audio stops, not just on occasion. Also on some discs, there are also pops output when the audio starts back up. The pops are also present whenever audio stops on CD, DVD or SACD, so its whenever an audio signal of any type stops being sent to the right channel. My guess is something in the mute circuity is hosed in this particular player, but it could be a design flaw/feature or simply a bug.

Edited to add a few quick review notes:

1) Denon definitely did something to improve media compatability in the xx30 series. I wrote a month or so ago that I had several DVD-Rs that choked 3910s and 5910s on the same chapter; the same discs play flawlessly in the 3930.

2) I'm not sure if the unit uses different DACs for SACD than Dolby Digital/DTS, but where the latter two sound good, SACDs are bright. Steel picks on guitar strings, minimal felt on piano hammers, the sort of thing common to many high end CD players as well, though not the "steel hammers on piano strings" harshness common to many mass market CD and DVD players. If they're different DACs, I know the DD/DTS DACS have been thoroughly broken in (and sound rather good), but the SACD ones likely have not and that may explain the difference. Unfortunately I don't have time to test my theory by setting up a SACD to repeat for a day or so.

3) Layer changes were imperceptible on the discs I tried. I haven't seen a layer change like this since the DVD-2900, but it's possible there are badly placed layer changes that could trip it up and generate a pause. Certainly better than the 1-2 seconds of say the Pioneer DV-79AVi.

4) In case you miss it in the manual (it's documented on page 20), if the HDMI output is active, the component video outputs are interlaced; if the HDMI output is shut off, the component video output mode is set by the appropriate video output setting in the menus (progressive or interlaced.)

5) Denon will never figure out that they really don't need to have the word "STILL" emblazoned across the picture when you pause the disc. The picture's not moving; I can figure out it's paused, and I can't freeze frame something of interest (or just get up to grab a drink) without burning "STILL" into the corner of my screen. Same goes for "NEXT" and "PREV" when changing chapters, but at least those are transient; "STILL" is forever until you press "play," which of course displays "PLAY" on screen for several seconds… :rolleyes:
I tried to reproduce the "popping" you're experiencing using analog L/R outputs, but it's not there, at least not with CDs or SACDs. I suspect there's something amiss with your unit. Did you try different cables or inputs on your processor?

dc

I tried to reproduce the "popping" you're experiencing using analog L/R outputs, but it's not there, at least not with CDs or SACDs. I suspect there's something amiss with your unit. Did you try different cables or inputs on your processor?

dcNo processor involved - just straight stereo analog outputs from the 3930 into my preamp.

Cables weren't an issue - or at least reversing the cables didn't cause the pops to move channels.

Note also you need to have the volume up at standard listening levels.

I am however running with the working theory that it's unit-specific, as I had a hard time believing Denon would design something this way.

Then again, they did design in that "STILL" thing... :D

kucharsk, where did you get your 3930? Ultimate Electronics?

kucharsk, where did you get your 3930? Ultimate Electronics?ListenUp. I've got Boulder's demo unit right now, I'm not sure if they have any left in stock for sale at this point.

One of the problems is Denon figured sales would be limited so they only made "X" 2930s and 3930s... and instantly sold out of them. :eek:

They're scrambling to make more as we speak. :D

Having trouble starting a new thread, any help out there?

ListenUp. I've got Boulder's demo unit right now, I'm not sure if they have any left in stock for sale at this point.

One of the problems is Denon figured sales would be limited so they only made "X" 2930s and 3930s... and instantly sold out of them. :eek:

They're scrambling to make more as we speak. :D


I got mine at ListenUp in Denver on 10/13. They had one more in stock then. They were awesome to work with, as usual - gave me 10% off list without even asking.

I checked with Ultimate near Park Meadows that day and they told me that the 3930ci would be a special order item only and they were not going to stock it.

Nice to see so many Denverites here! :cool:

Could someone else with a 3930 try this and tell me if it's a bug in all players or a fault in my dealer's demo?
1) Connect the audio to your receiver/amp/TV using the L and R stereo outputs
2) Play just about any disc
3) On pauses, chapter next/forward or anything that causes the audio stream from the disc to pause, there is a midrange pop or scratch output output to the right channel. It's similar in sound to what you hear if you plug an audio cable in or disconnect it while your amp is on or (if you remember them) the sound you get when an LP skips to the next groove - not good.
:
1) I have my player hooked up this way. Listened to many CDs and SACDs, while stopping, starting, and skipping around never heard a what you are describing.

2) I did have a different serious problem last night. After playing a SACD and switching to a DVD I could not get the HDMI to connect. The "HDMI" kept flashing. I ensured the HDMI was enabled and at the proper resolution and that Pure Direct was off. Returning from standby or powering down of the 3930 and TV did not fix it. I then tried with 2 different displays and HDMI cables (that both worked with my 2910) all with the same problem. I had to unplug the unit for 10 minutes and then it worked normally. **

Any idea what could be wrong. I am concerned this may be a hardware issue as I have not had any HDCP handshake issues for the last 2 weeks of daily use.

Update:

I went back to ListenUp and they pulled a different (and their last in Boulder) 3930 off the shelf. That one did not have the audio problems I mentioned, and I couldn't resist, so I bought it. :)

As far as the HDMI thing, remember at their heart most consumer electronics these days are computers. Odds are something just got confused and the player simply needed to be "rebooted." Since the power switch is a "soft" power switch, simply turning it off won't do it (though I suspect using the main power off switch would have worked just as well.) Could have been a glitch, or some type of firmware bug. Regardless, I wouldn't worry about it unless it either recurs regularly or a hard power cycle doesn't fix things.

Neither the lit standby button, hard on/off button, or unplugging briefly fixed the problem. Only unplugging for an extended period "reset" the player. I wonder if there is a hard reset key sequence, although I hope I never need to do it again.

I need a DVD player that can play US AND Region 2 DVDs. Long story, but WAF will increase no end if my new DVD player can do it.

So can the 2930 convert PAL to NTSC?
Can it be made region free? If so, how?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

If you search on the net you can find folks selling supposedly region free versions of denon players. I expect you will be in "no warranty" territory.

While these players will output both PAL and NTSC I don't beleive they will "convert" per say. I am not sure why you would need a conversion. Set the output to what you need, or leave it to Auto, which is both really.

Ruin

I need the DVD player to convert from PAL to NTSC so I can watch PAL discs on a US TV.

According to the specs the 2930 (like the 2910 before it) will do PAL-to-NTSC conversion so you can watch PAL discs on a US TV. Don't know how easy it is to make the 2930 region free though. You might take a look over at www.videohelp.com.

This link explains how to make a 3930 or 2930 region free. http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408066

It would be very reassuring if someone can confirm watching a PAL R2 DVD or a US 2930 with a US TV. Anyone done this yet?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

This link explains how to make a 3930 or 2930 region free. http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408066

It would be very reassuring if someone can confirm watching a PAL R2 DVD or a US 2930 with a US TV. Anyone done this yet?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

I was unable to make this work, although I was successful in making my older DVD3910 region-free by following the instructions on the same website.

Running through the procedure toggled the Region Code on the 3930 between "1" and "1A" but never accessed "2A".

I was unable to make this work, although I was successful in making my older DVD3910 region-free by following the instructions on the same website.

Running through the procedure toggled the Region Code on the 3930 between "1" and "1A" but never accessed "2A".

I believe the number you get - "A1", "A2", etc. - depends on the original region code for the player. So, it may have worked.

Robert, did you try to play a PAL disk at all to verify or did you assume it didn't work because of the different return code?

I just received my 3930 and while I haven’t done anything more than just making the required connections to my pre/pro, noticed the analog RCA connections introduce what I assume is a ground loop hum to my front left and right speakers. The center is not affected and I haven’t hooked up the surrounds yet. Unplugging the HDMI cable solves the problem and the COAX digital connection does not introduce any hum.

I’m using a Bryston SP2 Pre/Pro and 6BSST amp. I also use a 10B sub crossover for my front right and left mains and since it is the unbalanced version, requires RCA’s.

Any suggestions on how to isolate this? I used Component RGB before and could see if that corrects the problem but I would prefer to use HDMI for video.

Update; Component RGB instead of HDMI does not correct the problem.


Thanks.

George,I also have a hum problem but have not noticed it until you brought it up. I"m using an Avm20, I also noticed a cd scatch sound when skipping to next song as Kucharsk said in a earlier post. I will try unhooking the Hdmi cable. I would try changing power plugs from my 2900 but they are different.

George,I also have a hum problem but have not noticed it until you brought it up. I"m using an Avm20, I also noticed a cd scatch sound when skipping to next song as Kucharsk said in a earlier post. I will try unhooking the Hdmi cable. I would try changing power plugs from my 2900 but they are different.

I wonder what I might have done to introduce the problem other than change DVD players? The Denon DVD-3930CI replaced a Sony DVP S9000 ES that was dead quite. It was connected to my Plasma via Component RGB and connected to the SP2 with Digital COAX for DVD playback and analog RCA for SACD and CD playback. The Sony has a three prong power plug while the 3930 has a two prong plug.

Exactly where is this "hum" coming from -- the speakers or the player? Also, T100, what do you mean by a "CD scratch sound?" I've heard a quick scratchy type "pop" a couple of times when loading a disc, but no hum or anything that lasts or that compomises playback in any way.

Exactly where is this "hum" coming from -- the speakers or the player? Also, T100, what do you mean by a "CD scratch sound?" I've heard a quick scratchy type "pop" a couple of times when loading a disc, but no hum or anything that lasts or that compomises playback in any way.

"introduce what I assume is a ground loop hum to my front left and right speakers. The center is not affected and I haven’t hooked up the surrounds yet."

I two had this same set up coax, component and i also own the 9000es which has a ground plug on it but neither had Hdmi on them.Im not at home now so i"ll check later.The 3930 has no ground on it if I recall, but I have all my equiment going to a Richard Gray power station.

Exactly where is this "hum" coming from -- the speakers or the player? Also, T100, what do you mean by a "CD scratch sound?" I've heard a quick scratchy type "pop" a couple of times when loading a disc, but no hum or anything that lasts or that compomises playback in any way. Its like a record scratch when changing to next track ,I"ll try it again later when I get home[working now]

I two had this same set up coax, component and i also own the 9000es which has a ground plug on it but neither had Hdmi on them.Im not at home now so i"ll check later.The 3930 has no ground on it if I recall, but I have all my equiment going to a Richard Gray power station.

I noticed when I disconnect the cable-in from my Motorola 3912 cable box, the hum goes away. I suspect this wasn’t an issue before since the Sony had a ground plug.

I may order a Jensen VRD-1FF Cable TV RF Isolator. Think this will get rid of the hum?

Cable connections are usually the source of any hum problems. The cable is not at the same ground potential as the rest of you equipment hence the hum. The Jensen VRD-1FF should eliminate the problem. You might also try a ground block on the cable but you should already have one at the point of entry into your home.

I’m using a Bryston SP2 Pre/Pro and 6BSST amp. I also use a 10B sub crossover for my front right and left mains and since it is the unbalanced version, requires RCA’s.

How does the 3930 sound through your system? I also have Bryton gear and considering buying the Denon 3930CI.

How does the 3930 sound through your system? I also have Bryton gear and considering buying the Denon 3930CI.

I’ve been just trying to get the system hooked up and haven’t even gone through set up yet. The ground loop hum is annoying but I’ve un-hooked the cable and the system is now dead quiet again and I’ll try out some of my SACD’s tonight. I’ll try a couple DVD-A’s as well. I haven’t finished building my NCM surrounds yet so I won’t be able to test 5 channels for a while. I’ll let you know after I get everything configured. As a first test, Pink Floyd “Dark Side of the Moon’ was downright scary with the bass rocking the room. I think I’m going to really like this set up once I get the kinks worked out.

Has anyone noticed any fan noise from the 3930, and whether it runs fairly continually or is seldom turned on? Also, when running is there much exhaust from the back or top?

Has anyone noticed any fan noise from the 3930, and whether it runs fairly continually or is seldom turned on? Also, when running is there much exhaust from the back or top?


none - mine is dead quiet.

Mine is too. Loving it, in fact. Notwithstanding those couple of static-like pops mentioned above that I may have heard, the sound quality of this player is liquid gold -- smooth, rich, detailed...all the usual audiophile adjectives.
As for video, when I first hooked it up I didn't think the improvement over my prior Denon DVD 2900 was that significant, but after tweaking the settings a bit and settling on an HDMI upscaling format of YCbCr 720p into my LCD rear projection TV, I find the color palette, clarity and image depth to be outstanding.
Tremendous flexibility, too. I'm looking forward to more feedback in this thread about the relative differences between all the different audio and video signal processing and connectivity options.

I read in a UK magazine that the 3930 is particularly good with rbCD too.

Has anyone performed the ultimate test of directly comparing a 3930 with the famed 5910?

Kris Deering owns a 5910 and is supposed to post a 3930 review by the end of the month.

I'm told that audioholics.com is coming out with a review of the '3930 next week.

I read in a UK magazine that the 3930 is particularly good with rbCD too.
Got link?

No, sorry s2silber, it's not online, it was in Hi-Fi Choice current issue IIRC.
Yes DavidHir, I'm eagerly awaiting Kris Deering's review...

Denon's UK site claims the 3930 has an "aluminium loader tray", just like the 5910, together with a "10-Bit DVDO Professional Scaler". The latter is untrue, but is the former? Also, the video DACs are "2 x ADV7324" instead of "2 x ADV7314", and the audio DACs are 5 "Burr Brown PCM1796" instead of "Burr Brown PCM1792": just in case anyone's interested. Oh, also, the 1.5x zoom is dropped and only "x2, x3" offered.

Does the US version have DivX support, and if so has anyone tried it out thru the Realta?

The box for the 3930 mentions DivX is supported.

I can confirm the zoom is only 1x, 2x, 3x.

Robert, did you try to play a PAL disk at all to verify or did you assume it didn't work because of the different return code?

I tried a Region 2 disk, which would not play no matter how many times I performed the procedure to supposedly make the 3930 region-free. I previously was able to play this disk on a 3910 that I had transformed to region-free operation by following 3910-specific instructions on that same web site.

I've had the 3930 for a few days now. I agree with posters who praise its performance with 24-frame originated material. However, I have found two problems.

The first, and most serious, is that the 480i output through HDMI appears to bob the video, at least through the Denon 4806CI, which one would assume would be compatible if anything was. Based on the typical "Faroudja artifact patterns" that the 4806CI produces on the HQV test disk when fed 480i, the 4806CI appears to use a Fourdja deinterlacer and upscaler.

Problem explained:

Jeff T. from Denon sent me a detailed and courteous reply to my question, telling me that the 4806CI upscales from its analog inputs but not, alas, from its HDMI inputs. So the problems I was seeing with the 480i HDMI output of the 3930 were caused by the 4806CI's passing 480i through to my display without any scaling or deinterlacing. My display is an old JVC 50" plasma (basically an OEM of the Panasonic 3rd generation 50" plasma). The deinterlacer in that plasma performs very poorly by today's standards, and that is what was causing the jaggies.

The work-around is to use the 4806CI's component inputs, but this of course adds a stage of D/A and A/D conversion. It seems odd that the 4806CI would not upscale its digital inputs to its HDMI output, given that this would cause no DRM issues. But, for whatever reason, that's how Denon designed it and I was guilty of jumping to conclusions.

none - mine is dead quiet.Mine as well, as was the demo I had.

Edit: I listened very, very carefully and you can hear a soft whir start when you power the unit on and stop when you shut it off, but you literally have to have your head up next to the player to hear it.

Just in case nobody noticed it, there is a 4 pages 2930Ci review in the following PDF document:

http://www.hifiklubben.com/files/Test/Denon/DENDVD2930_hometheaterblog_200608.pdf

Cheers.

Thanks to everyone for their comments regarding fan operation.

The 3930 - described as having "..thoroughly impressive sonic ability" - was given a gold award by the UK magazine Hi-Fi Choice, ahead of the Arcam 137 and Marantz 9600 with silver and bronze respectively. Mind you, they also voted the Meridian G98AH above the 5910CI/A1XVA - presumably, they give priority to audio performance.

s2silber, regarding rbCD performance, I went out and bought the mag, and they say "There is something disarmingly natural sounding about the Denon with CD, which almost comes as a shock from a player that is so blatantly hi-tech. It has an orchestral string quality that has great depth and pungency, and there is a trace of what almost passes for sweetness, though it lacks the kind of pasted on euphony that this nearly implies....very together and solid...sound very 'alive.'....powerful player....open, tactile sound you can almost reach out and touch.....good enough to give some well-reputed dedicated CD players a run for their money..."

I am still looking for a good / comprehensive review of 3910 vs. 2930... Everyone seems to be heavily concentrated on the 3930. I am hoping that 2930 will also be reviewed and discussed at one point.

Locally (Ottawa, Canada) I can get a 2930 for 999 and a store display 3910 for 1099. The fact that a two-year old design and a store model (they claim it hasn't been turned on, just put on display) is more expensive tells me something.

Faroudja vs. Reon : Other than its well-known macroblocking issue, it appears to be a very good chip, the one inside the 3910. The Reon used in the 2930 doesn't appear to be as good in many disciplines especially its performance on diagonal lines (with various angles) although it does not specifically suffer from the macroblocking issue. If you have a display that doesn't make macroblokcing look especially bad, it looks like 3910 is better in the video department.

In terms of display resolutions supported on component and HDMI outputs, is there a difference in what is possible? if not, 3910 is the way to go for video.

I also read that the analog outs on the 3910 is superior. Although I am planning to use DenonLink to my 3805, it is good to know that if my plans change in the future I have a very good analog out from my DVD player for my SACDs and DVD-As.


The build quality is another factor of course. The components used, the power supply, clean signal design, etc.


Anway, still waiting for a good review to come....