I am still looking for a good / comprehensive review of 3910 vs. 2930... Everyone seems to be heavily concentrated on the 3930. I am hoping that 2930 will also be reviewed and discussed at one point.

Locally (Ottawa, Canada) I can get a 2930 for 999 and a store display 3910 for 1099. The fact that a two-year old design and a store model (they claim it hasn't been turned on, just put on display) is more expensive tells me something.

Faroudja vs. Reon : Other than its well-known macroblocking issue, it appears to be a very good chip, the one inside the 3910. The Reon used in the 2930 doesn't appear to be as good in many disciplines especially its performance on diagonal lines (with various angles) although it does not specifically suffer from the macroblocking issue. If you have a display that doesn't make macroblokcing look especially bad, it looks like 3910 is better in the video department.

In terms of display resolutions supported on component and HDMI outputs, is there a difference in what is possible? if not, 3910 is the way to go for video.

I also read that the analog outs on the 3910 is superior. Although I am planning to use DenonLink to my 3805, it is good to know that if my plans change in the future I have a very good analog out from my DVD player for my SACDs and DVD-As.


The build quality is another factor of course. The components used, the power supply, clean signal design, etc.


Anway, still waiting for a good review to come....

Why do you say the 3910 is better with video and diagonal lines? Have you seen how well the 2930 is on the jaggies tests?

3910 would have i.link, but it doesn't work that well with other manufacturers i.Links. I had problems with a pioneer receiver and the 3910 despite having the latest firmware for the 3910.

The analog outs on the 3910 would provide better sound, but the video quality on the 2930CI should be considerably better for video sourced material, and free of macroblocking across the board, giving it an edge.

With Denonlink the sound quality would be identical between the 2930 and 3910.

s2silber, regarding rbCD performance, I went out and bought the mag, and they say "There is something disarmingly natural sounding about the Denon with CD, which almost comes as a shock from a player that is so blatantly hi-tech. It has an orchestral string quality that has great depth and pungency, and there is a trace of what almost passes for sweetness, though it lacks the kind of pasted on euphony that this nearly implies....very together and solid...sound very 'alive.'....powerful player....open, tactile sound you can almost reach out and touch.....good enough to give some well-reputed dedicated CD players a run for their money..."
zeropoint, thanks for passing along that glowing praise from Hi-Fi Choice. I'd have to say I agree with it wholeheartedly, particularly about the presence and sweetly tactile feel of music from the analogue outputs. Listening to female vocalists such as Diana Krall, Jane Monheit and Tory Amos, well...it's almost like they're right there in the room with me. Speaking of which....gotta' go now. :)

I did have a different serious problem last night. After playing a SACD and switching to a DVD I could not get the HDMI to connect. The "HDMI" kept flashing. I ensured the HDMI was enabled and at the proper resolution and that Pure Direct was off ("Normal"). Returning from standby or powering down of the 3930 and TV did not fix it. I then tried with 2 different displays and HDMI cables (that both worked with my 2910) all with the same problem. I had to unplug the unit for 10 minutes and then it worked normally.


I have had my 3930 for 3 weeks now and been putting it under daily use for both audio and video. I think it is a great player but now have had 4 glitches in its operation.

1) See above from my previous post - Could not duplicate and has not occured again

2) Playing a SACD (Jennifer Warnes The Well SACD 2 channel Pure Direct video and digital off). When it hit the end of the disk the player locked up. Had to hard power on/off to recover. Could not duplicate.

3) Playing a CD with pure direct on. I turned off the TV and when it lost the HDMI connection metallic static started over the music that continued to play. Could not duplicate. Although I do not understand if the Video circuits are off how it keeps the HDMI connection.

4) Set a CD in the tray, pressed play and pressed stop it before it fully loaded. The machine locked up and I needed to open/close the tray to continue.

These problems seem to be software bug issues, hopefully if real can be fixed with firmware updates. Maybe even related just to pure direct and me pushing buttons before the player is ready. Anyway my return policy is running out and I would prefer to deal with Crutchfield returns then Denon service. Does anyone think these problems warrant exchanging the player. For this much money I am a little nervous.

I hope to see some of the anticipated reviews this week.

This is really not the comparison folks are looking for, but as a data point..,
I have been playing with letting my 4806CI do the upconverting vs the 3930CI. The AVR uses the Faroudja chip I beleive. There is no doubt that the 3930 looks better. The only thing that I find the 3930 does which is odd, is that it mutes colors a bit. I have been running all HDMI into my AVR and using a single output to the TV, but I think I am going to run the 3930 directly to the TV so that I can seperately adjust the color on that input.

It is too bad that the color adjustments available on the 3930 are not available on the HDMI output.

Ruin

I get no audio from the HDMI connection from the 2930, just video. :eek:

Tried switching cables with the same result. I do get audio from the DVR so it's not the set.

I also tried to reboot the unit as per the instructions (pressing play and next) which did not work - nothing happened. Has anyone rebooted their unit? What were the results on the TV screen or the DVD player's display.

Any ideas out there on HDMI audio issue? I would hate to return it as their currently out of stock.

Do you have Denonlink on? If so, turn it off. It seems to me that if Denonlink is on it overides HDMI as a sound source. Also, depending on what you are sending the stream to, you may need to set multichannel or 2 channel for the HDMI sound. Also, you may be able to set the type of stream like normal, LPCM, etc. which will make a difference depending on what is decoding the signal.

Ruin

Why do you say the 3910 is better with video and diagonal lines? Have you seen how well the 2930 is on the jaggies tests?

I haven't seen anything myself. If I am not mistaken there were multiple postings on this forum suggesting the Faroudja did a better job with slanted lines, e.g. neck to shoulder profile.

Denon link is off - interesting though - the menu will not let me go to the Denon Link so I can change it??

At HDMI Setup have toggled through all of the "HDMI Audio Setup" options - still no sound.

At Video Setup tried the "Audio/Video Sync " options - still no sound.

At Audio Setup tried all options again, all without sound.

As the sound works from the analog outputs, I can't toggle Denon Link and the unit will not reboot - I'm thinking that I may have a damaged chip somewhere. Or should I try a software update? Anybody go there yet? A sticker says that it was made in May 2006 - don't know how to reach the software version display.

Thanks for your help

Got the reboot to work - did not solve the sound problem.

Denon link is off - interesting though - the menu will not let me go to the Denon Link so I can change it??
You have to make sure you're in full "Stop" mode to activate or deactivate DenonLink, and just to make sure, remove any disc you may have in the tray. Also, if DenonLink is your sole, digital audio source, make sure that in the HDMI audio setup menu you've got HDMI set to Two Channel.

I haven't seen anything myself. If I am not mistaken there were multiple postings on this forum suggesting the Faroudja did a better job with slanted lines, e.g. neck to shoulder profile.

I don't recall those posts.

I ran the 2930 through the "torture" jaggies tests on the HQV test disc and it was excellent. I really don't think a player could do any better.

Further experiences with the 3930CI...

Last night I watched The Retun of the King...and was just blown away by the level of detail in the color, the depth of field in the frame, and the sound - wow - my surrounds must be tired this morning because they were given quite a workout.

I had the player upscaling over HDMI to 1080i on my Samsung HLS-5687W DLP, as the previous material I had watched was a tad grainy in 1080p mode. But ROTK looked a little "soft" after 20 minutes, so I changed the upscaling to 1080p and the picture just took on a deeper, richer tone. My wife noticed it immediately as well. Someone said they thought the colors looked muted on this machine and I disagree - I think the colors are rich, saturated and deep. Blacks look phenomenal - even on a bright DLP set. Granted, the new Samsungs are really colorful sets also, so maybe it's a marriage made in heaven.

As for audio - I watched disc one in DTS-ES and man was it intense. I had issues with the volume between the battle scenes and "normal" dialog - I was reaching for the remote to turn up the dialog and turn down the action. I like loud movies, so the loudness wasn't the problem. The dialog quietness was. I am running Paradigm Studio Reference speakers that have been properly calibrated, so this was kind of annoying.

For disc 2 I switched over to DD-EX, and the problem went away. The sonics weren't as extreme, and I didn't have to fiddle with the remote the rest of the night. Maybe this was software sepcific, as I usually prefer the DTS soundtrack in an action-oriented film - but I will choose DD next time for sure.

One minor complaint is the menu changes are v-e-r-y--- s---l---o---w--- to the point of I wondered if something was wrong on 2 different occasions over the weekend. There is no perceptible layer change delay, however, so I can live with a slow menu.

Final note - the sound on this baby for music is just stellar. It has pointed out the limitations on my speakers and for the first time in a long time I am finding myself making bass & treble changes to compensate. I turned down my treble and subwoofer, and turned up the bass and now I'm in sweet heaven. Granted the Paradigms can be a bit bright, and in Pure Direct mode the sound is even brighter, but the sound differences between the 3930 and my older 2900 (which I really liked, btw) are really significant. It makes me want to listen to my music again...which is a GREAT thing.

Overall, I'm very very pleased with the unit. Yeah, I wish it was $500 and not $1,500, but I have no regrets.

Here in Europe the 3930 has been delayed with no new release date. Apparently there are some problems with the unit that Denon wants to work out. I got this information from the official importer. Did anyone else hear the same?? :confused:

You have to make sure you're in full "Stop" mode to activate or deactivate DenonLink, and just to make sure, remove any disc you may have in the tray. Also, if DenonLink is your sole, digital audio source, make sure that in the HDMI audio setup menu you've got HDMI set to Two Channel.

Sorry, can't get your method to work - I must be wearing the wrong shoes or something. I'll keep trying and thanks for your advise.

However, I did fix the HDMI sound issue!! And all I had to do was to use the "HDMI Select" on the unit. Lessons learned:

A. When you have a problem press everything - revert to a 5 year old.
B. Criticism of the documentation is correct
C. This is a great unit that will improve once I learn how to use it.

Thanks to all that helped.

This link explains how to make a 3930 or 2930 region free. http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408066

It would be very reassuring if someone can confirm watching a PAL R2 DVD or a US 2930 with a US TV. Anyone done this yet?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

I just received my Region 1 2930CI today and was able to make this player region free!

I followed the steps listed in the link above for the 2930CI, but posted for clarification:

1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. With the unit on (green light, not red), power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Still/Pause buttons on the front panel (not remote).
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button, hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press Stop and Skip Forward (>>I) simultaneously on the front panel . The front panel will briefly display “Region_A1”.

This made the player region free. I confirmed this by two different Region 2 PAL discs.

The player out of the box is automatically defaulted to MULTI for the TV TYPE in the Setup Menu. I didn't bother to check this before trying to make the player region free. Since my television is NTSC only, I only received audio at first and not a picture. Making the change to the TV TYPE option to reflect NTSC fixed that problem.

Hope this helps others.

EDIT: Edited for correctness.

This made the player region free. Also step 8 in the link above doesn't work however the player is still made region free. I confirmed this by two different Region 2 PAL discs.

So, what happens when you push the stop and forward skip buttons on the player after performing the other steps? Right out of the box my 2930CI says "region 1."

So, what happens when you push the stop and forward skip buttons on the player after performing the other steps? Right out of the box my 2930CI says "region 1."

Sorry, I initially didn't get anything. This morning I get Region_A1, so it does look like step 8 works. You have to press down both the stop and forward skip buttons at the same time. I think originally I was trying to press down the stop button slightly before the fast forward button was pressed down.

rdodolak

This could be a repetition. But are you saying that your 2930 (after the region free hack) can play PAL DVDs on an NTSC (US) TV? The Denon player can convert PAL to NTSC like the Oppo

rdodolak

This could be a repetition. But are you saying that your 2930 (after the region free hack) can play PAL DVDs on an NTSC (US) TV? The Denon player can convert PAL to NTSC like the Oppo

That is correct.

rdodolak,

are you using HDMI to connect the 2930 to your TV? What is the picture quality like on NTSC discs?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

are you using HDMI to connect the 2930 to your TV? What is the picture quality like on NTSC discs?

Yes, I have the player contected via HDMI however I haven't had enough time to put the player through it's paces yet. Just enough time to set it up initially and test out the region free capability. I still need to use DVE, Avia, and the HQV Benchmark test. I can report back later with that info later once I've gone through the above.

That would be very helpful! Thank you. Could you also check how it performs on PAL discs please?

Look for a review of the '3930 by audioholics.com later this week or next.

- Does the 3930 give 1080p over component?

- How good is the 3930 at playing the rented scratched discs that can be cumbersome and annoying with their skipping?

- Does the 3930 give 1080p over component?


I'm sure it doesn't.

- How good is the 3930 at playing the rented scratched discs that can be cumbersome and annoying with their skipping?

I'm sure it's as good as the 2930, and so far mine has been great.

I have mentioned some lockups and other problems with my 3930 in my previous post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8770201&&#post8770201

I now had a fifth incident. As the player was switching from the chapters with the US copyright warnings to the international warnings on "Downfall" the player stopped for no reason and the display said "Stop" and picture went away. I then pressed play and it continued with no problems. No I didn't sit on the remote.

Is anyone else having these types of problems with their 3930? I need to decide if I should keep it, exchange my unit or just return it.

Haven't seen anything like this, but it sounds like you're tripping up the memory if you're hitting buttons in the process. This player just isn't as fast as others, such as the Denon DVD 2900. Otherwise, you may have a problem unit that needs to be exchanged.

I bought 2930 last week after reading stuff off this forums and i have to say i'm very pleased with the picture and sound so far no issues what so ever sacd and dvda a are very good picture is very nice played all i throwed at it any region

After some hiccups with the 2930 I was talking with my dealer about it's operation, when he told me that they just received a shipment of 3930. Well I just had to try one. Results? The 2930 is going back.

Compared to my old Sony 9000 ES the 2930 has excellent PQ and does not have the MPEG artifacts and/or microblocking problems on the new LCD. However, the sound from the Sony is better in soundstage and a fuller sound. BTW, all of my 2930 issues were resolved by a reboot and with s2siber's suggestion (thanks again).

Now the 3930 excels in PQ the image appears cleaner and deeper, it's difficult to describe. The audio is better than the old Sony and I agree with mcd4959 comments. But what standsout for me is the clarity of the vocals and how they are separate form the music or sound effects. This ability is also evident with music as you can almost count the number of people in a chorus.

Both of these players are excellent - final selection depends on your pocketbook and the synergy between the player and your system.

viclaw,

Did you calibrate each player (2930 and 3930) to your display with something like Avia or DVE?

I appologize if this is a redundant question, but I have searched up and down this thread and could not find a definitive answer.

I'm considering a 3910 or a 3930. Whichever one I choose, I am going to have an SDI mod added and will run the video into a processor, so I am mainly interested in audio differences. Are there any? With that perspective, does it may any sense to buy a 3930 over the 3910?

The '3930 has an upgraded audio DAC and Advanced AL Processing, which makes for better analogue audio out. If you do get the '3910, make sure it's got all the firmware upgrades -- particularly DenonLink 3 -- that have been issued since the first release of that model.

After demo'ing the 2930 and 3930, I decided to (finally!!!) buy the 2930. I received the player today and discovered something interesting. A while back you may remember me stating how I saw some combing on Star Wars: A New Hope (star destroyer scene) - this was using the default "Auto" mode (which the manual recommends) of the player. Auto is supposed to automatically distinguish between film and video. I decided to try Video 2 instead and it works perfectly. No combing at all on the star destroyer! I find this interesting as the manual states that Video 2 is for video-based material and 30fps film.

That's good news about the combing on Star Wars.

What made you decide on the 2930?
Were differences moving up to the 3930 not enough to justify the price?

Yes, I just didn't see any notable improvement with the 3930. Having just used the 3930 last week and getting the 2930 (again) tonight, it re-affirms that thought. Now, someone with a different, maybe larger display may say otherwise. But, based on my eyes and display, no difference really. Initially I thought maybe the 3930 was a little sharper, but I cannot say that it true after using the 2930 tonight. For those using 480p component, the 2930 is probably better just because it doesn't have the edge enhancement the 3930 shows at this scanrate with component. It is said the Realta in the 3930 handles bad edits better, but I'm not sure how often that would play a factor or how often one would even notice. That initial Star Wars problem did not occur with the 3930 (or even the Oppo 970) in auto mode, but it's a non-issue on the 2930 using Video 2 as I mentioned.

David, Not sure if you have been asked this question before but did you compare the audio side of the players, for music playback?
CD, SACD or DVD-A?

That initial Star Wars problem did not occur with the 3930 (or even the Oppo 970) in auto mode, but it's a non-issue on the 2930 using Video 2 as I mentioned.
These are good news but I wonder how the rest of the movies can be affected, I assume that mode Video2 is more suitable for video than film, at least theoretically, isn't?

:confused:

David, Not sure if you have been asked this question before but did you compare the audio side of the players, for music playback?
CD, SACD or DVD-A?

I did not - I'm not much of an audio guy (just for movies really, but I use optical cable).

While waiting for the DVD 3930 I ordered a month ago (it will hit Stockholm within the next two weeks) I am following this thread and trying to read all reviews I can find. So far I found two - one in the German Stereoplay, where the DVD-3930 was knighted to the status of "Reference", and one in the British
journal HI-FI Choice, where the verdict was "Best choice" and "Best DVD Player £ 1.000 - £ 2.000; Gold Award". I scanned the latter and tried to enclose the two files to this post. It turned out to be impossible, as, irrespective of which format I saved the files in, the Attachment Manager of AVSforum refused to upload them, telling me that they exceed the maximum allowed size (which, oddly enough, in one case was 5 Mb, in another 500 kb).

Could somebody tell me how to enclose these files, which have the sizes 4,85 and 2,98 Mb respectively? (provided, of course, that there is any interest for the review among members of the thread)

Please observe that HI-FI Choice is focused on audio Hi-Fi, which means that Denon should be proud of the magazine's verdict on DVD-3930's sonic performance.


Andy

I've been looking all over midtown Manhattan for a copy of "HiFi Choice" magazine without any luck. I also sent an e-mail to the publisher, and I got back the following instructions on how to order the issue. It's kind of expensive, so hopefully someone here will figure out how to post or place the text in this thread.

Thank you for your recent email.

The back issue: 287 - DEC 06 (THE AWARDs) about which you enquired is currently available.

The price is: 7.90 pounds sterling per copy, including postage and packaging.

Payment may either be made by (1) Sterling cheque - drawn on a UK bank (made payable to the magazine) and mailed to Tower House, Sovereign Park, P O Box 5891, Market Harborough, Leicestershire, LE94 7ZT, United Kingdom (2) Credit card - Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Switch or Maestro either emailed back to me at future@subscription.co.uk (not 100% secure), or faxed to 0044 1858 469804. Remember to quote your full delivery address, card number, expiry date and magazine name and issues details.

viclaw,

Did you calibrate each player (2930 and 3930) to your display with something like Avia or DVE?

Yes, I use Video Essentials. But I believe that I am fighting the DNle "feature" in the Samsung - it was much easier to calibrate my old Sony Wega CRT.

Also, I agree with your assessment of the 2930 it is an excellent player and I think that the associated equipment may play a major roll in final selection. I chose the 3930 because I see a 10-20% video improvement and a 50% or better improvement in the audio. It was the audio that pushed me over.

These are good news but I wonder how the rest of the movies can be affected, I assume that mode Video2 is more suitable for video than film, at least theoretically, isn't?

:confused:

Well, that's an interesting question.

According to the Denon tech I just spoke to, the Auto mode selects Video 1 (for video-based material) or Video 2 (for film-based material).

According to the manual, this is partially correct, however, it does state Video 2 is for film at 30fps and for video-based material. Nothing is noted about 24fps film (maybe accidently left out of manual?).

So, it appears auto is only choosing Video 1 for Star Wars (even though it's film) when it should choose Video 2. It's all a little unclear.

Yes, I use Video Essentials. But I believe that I am fighting the DNle "feature" in the Samsung - it was much easier to calibrate my old Sony Wega CRT.

Also, I agree with your assessment of the 2930 it is an excellent player and I think that the associated equipment may play a major roll in final selection. I chose the 3930 because I see a 10-20% video improvement and a 50% or better improvement in the audio. It was the audio that pushed me over.

50% better on audio.

That's a bold statement when differences are usually incremental.
Could you please describe how you arrived at that?
I'm interested in these players for the same reason and would like to know in what ways (specifically) the 3930 is superior.
Did you compare the Hi-Rez formats or just redbook?

More thoughts...

Last night I listened to the DVD-Audio version of "Fragile" by Yes. I know this is one of the better surround mixes available on DVD-A, but listening to it for the first time on the 3930 really made it sing. I had always like the sonics of the disc - the layers of sound, the vocal "choir"-like effects and the great guitar, but I felt the 3930 really opened up the sound.

I continue to be amazed by the audio on this machine. I can see why people get excited and say that it's "50% better". It's not 50% better than my 2900, but it is substantially better - bigger soundstage, clarity, depth, separation - and I liked the 2900's sound a lot.

My only complaint remains the slowness of menu changes, but that really is a very minor quibble. I think Denon has hit a grand slam with this player.

:confused:

OK, I've encountered a problem I hope some of the great minds here can help me with...

For DVD-Audio - If I leave the player mode in "Video", the player does not show the DVD-A menus on the TV - just the Dolby Digital song selection screen. Pressing menu or top menu has no effect at all.

If I switch the setup mode to "Audio", I get the full menu onscreen - until I select the song I want to hear. Then my screen goes blank and tells me ther is no signal. The audio, however, now plays the DVD-A version of the song. I am losing any video content (admittedly not much but lyrics and backstory for the most part) but it just doesn't seem right.

I am connected via HDMI to the TV; analog audio for DVD-A to the receiver. Any ideas what I can be doing wrong???? :confused:

You are not doing anything wrong that I can see. Does it behave that way on all DVD-As or just some of them. Perhaps it depends on how the DVD-A is designed as to display of information in DVD-A mode vs Dobly Digital/Video mode.

Ruin

It seems to be this way on all DVD-a's that I have tried. I should have clarified that the sound is only Dolby Digital in "Video" mode as well - I can't get to the DVD-A mix.

Perplexing!

I can't help but think it has something to do with the HDMI interface with my TV. I wonder if connecting a component cable might fix the problem. I can just change the macro on my remote and alleviate the hassle...but it still doesn't seem right...

How do you have the 3930 connected to your receiver?

Ruin

It seems to be this way on all DVD-a's that I have tried. I should have clarified that the sound is only Dolby Digital in "Video" mode as well - I can't get to the DVD-A mix.

Perplexing!

I can't help but think it has something to do with the HDMI interface with my TV. I wonder if connecting a component cable might fix the problem. I can just change the macro on my remote and alleviate the hassle...but it still doesn't seem right...
That's odd. IIRC, the Fragile DVD-A has photos you can "scroll" through while the DVD-A songs are playing. It's been a while since I played it.

larry

How do you have the 3930 connected to your receiver?

Ruin


I have it connected 3 ways:

Optical for DD
Analog for DVD-A and SACD
2 CH analog for stereo

No video connections at all to the receiver. I run the HDMI directly to the TV.

:confused:

How do the 2930 compare to the 3910?
I know this is a hard question to answer, bbut I'm having trouble deciding which model to buy.

I need a new DVD player asap, and I have mainly three candidates: Denon 1930, a used 3910 or the 2930 (the 3930 is too expensive). I'm only going to use it for DVD's, so movie sound and picture are important.

A used 3910 is really interesting, but I've heard a lot of negative things about macroblocking with this model. The 1930 is by far the cheapest option, but since this will most likely be my last dedicated DVD player, I wonder if I shouldn't go for one of the more expensive players.

Advice and thoughts are appreciated.

If you get MB with your display, then neither the 3910 nor the 1930 are a good option (they both use the Faroudja chip). What display do you have?

If you get MB with your display, then neither the 3910 nor the 1930 are a good option (they both use the Faroudja chip). What display do you have?

I have a BenQ 8720. I guess you know this, but it's a 720p DLP DC3 projector.

Come to think of it, the BenQ 8720 has a Faroudja DCDi chip. Buying a DVD player with the same video prosessor would mean the same scaling abilities or...?

Is the Reon chip regarded as a better prosessor than the DCDi?

Heh, I just read that BenQ has chosen Reon VX to use in their new projectors. That may answer my question regarding the DCDi versus the Reon chip.

50% better on audio.

That's a bold statement when differences are usually incremental.
Could you please describe how you arrived at that?
I'm interested in these players for the same reason and would like to know in what ways (specifically) the 3930 is superior.
Did you compare the Hi-Rez formats or just redbook?

In my system I note numerous improvements to the audio by stepping up from the 2930 to 3930. The attributes that I value are: A much improved sound stage.
The speakers disappear. The highs are much smother - not unlike comparing solid state to tubes and the bass is slightly better. This is apparent for both CDs and SACD (don't have any DVD-A). My listening preference is classical, rock, and big band jazz. Setting - Pure Direct - All Off.

For DVDs the sound, from two speakers, is greatly improved and almost replicates surround sound - just watched Monster House and was just amazed at the sound effects. Example: when the kids go for help, the video game sound seemed to be coming from my coffee table (just in front of my knees) while the dialog and ambient sounds were spread out across the speakers and screen.

Now you don't have to believe me but my wife noticed the same things and was constantly pointing out differences to the point of approving my spending 50% more for the 3930. And that is never a easy sell for my toys.

Evaluating equipment is very subjective that is affected by personal preferences, associated equipment and the room. For us the 3930 was the obvious winner sonically while the PQ improvements are more subtle and would not justify the additional cost alone IMO.

The 3930 is an excellent unit - try it you'll like it. But if cost is an issue my dealer will soon have an open box discounted 2930. Hope this helps.

I have it connected 3 ways:

Optical for DD
Analog for DVD-A and SACD
2 CH analog for stereo

No video connections at all to the receiver. I run the HDMI directly to the TV.

:confused:

Try using the Optical for the DVD-A and see what that does. Perhaps using analog output for the sound along with the HDMI causes this strange interaction. Of course you will likely loose something in the audio this way unless you have wonderfull D/A conversion in your receiver, but try it just as an experiment.

I have video hooked up via HDMI and audio through DenonLink. I just tested 5 random DVD-As from my collection, and I got proper menus and the slideshows, lyrics, etc. that each publisher chose to have on the DVD-A portion. This was not always the same as what was on the DVD-V portion, but I always saw it.

I haven't played with useing the multichannel analog out because if I do I loose the Audyssey correction that my AVR gives me so I said the heck with it and used the DenonLink because I still have decent DACs and AL24plus processing in my AVR-4806CI.

Ruin

Did anyone read the audioholic review?

I question their reviews sometimes because when they say something has high build quality and I own the product based on their review and find that it's 'falling apart', it makes me wonder if money has something to do with the good reviews. But anyways...

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/denon-DVD-3930CI-DVD-playerp1.php

Also, why is the on-screen menu on all Denon products so cheap? Everytime I use it, it throws me back to my days of playing around with the Commadore Vic 20. It's the 21 century and they're still using boxy black/white text with no GUI. Is anyone annoyed by this cheapness for over $1K?

Read the review.
So it seems they liked it. :)

The only thing I don't like about this player so far is how slowly it responds. It is like an idiot savant. It is a slow thinker when processing commands, but a stellar performer at displaying its video and producing exceptional audio.

Oh, well, one more thing. What is up with the remote? I mean seriously? Is it designed for Andre the Giant? Clunky barely does it justice. I have remotes that are half the width and half the height that do just as much.

Ruin

I just received my Region 1 2930CI today and was able to make this player region free!

I followed the steps listed in the link above for the 2930CI, but posted for clarification:

1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. With the unit on (green light, not red), power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Still/Pause buttons on the front panel (not remote).
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button, hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press Stop and Skip Forward (>>I) simultaneously on the front panel . The front panel will briefly display “Region_A1”.

This made the player region free. I confirmed this by two different Region 2 PAL discs.

The player out of the box is automatically defaulted to MULTI for the TV TYPE in the Setup Menu. I didn't bother to check this before trying to make the player region free. Since my television is NTSC only, I only received audio at first and not a picture. Making the change to the TV TYPE option to reflect NTSC fixed that problem.

I can confirm that this works for the European R2 version of the player as well (DVD-3930). After the change it will display "Region_A2" and play R1 NTSC DVD's without a problem.
The signal will not be converted to PAL but afaik all TV's sold in Europe are multi format and will display NTSC without problems as my 10 year old Sony CRT does.

Also, why is the on-screen menu on all Denon products so cheap? Everytime I use it, it throws me back to my days of playing around with the Commadore Vic 20. It's the 21 century and they're still using boxy black/white text with no GUI. Is anyone annoyed by this cheapness for over $1K?

No. I mean it's a menu. As long as it gets the job done and it's easy enough to use.

:confused:

OK, I've encountered a problem I hope some of the great minds here can help me with...

For DVD-Audio - If I leave the player mode in "Video", the player does not show the DVD-A menus on the TV - just the Dolby Digital song selection screen. Pressing menu or top menu has no effect at all.

If I switch the setup mode to "Audio", I get the full menu onscreen - until I select the song I want to hear. Then my screen goes blank and tells me ther is no signal. The audio, however, now plays the DVD-A version of the song. I am losing any video content (admittedly not much but lyrics and backstory for the most part) but it just doesn't seem right.

I am connected via HDMI to the TV; analog audio for DVD-A to the receiver. Any ideas what I can be doing wrong???? :confused:

I had some horrible problems with DVD-Audio disks: MINE WOULD NOT PLAY AT ALL.

There was even a thread about incompatible media: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=717926 which was started, but didn't go to far.

My dvd-2930 would completely lock up at the sight of a DVD-A disk. It would recognize it as a DVD-A and would try and play, but would suddenly read "stop" on the display. If you tried to play it again it froze. DVD-A's I tried were: Beck (sea change and guero), Beach Boys (pet sounds), and Porcupine Tree (in absentia). ALL failed and caused the unit to lock up.

I had to send mine back. Beside that, it would never find the SACD layer on hybrid SACD's. It would only find the redbook layer. I still do not have a replacement and the place I purchased from gave me a full refund as they don't know when supplies will be back up.

Just wanted to throw that out there. It looks like some units have some serious trouble with DVD-A disks.

so, anyone make a direct comparo between the 3910vs 3930?

I saw a few hardware pics between the two in the audioholics review, but I've searched this thread nothing about a 1to1 between the two.

:confused:

On a side note, Superman - The Movie was on InHD Saturday (through my Time Warner cable) with my 57" display from 10 feet back. With the 2930 and the DVD in it, I did some pretty close A/B comparisons. While the cable broadcast had very slightly more *noticable* resolution - particularly in background comparisons - I actually prefered the DVD on the 2930 as the colors and black levels were much, much better and the overall image was just more "alive" and really popped more. Now, I'm sure when it's released on HD DVD, things will be different (which HD DVD being much better) and I do understand that with over-the-air broadcast there are some compromises which sacrifice image quality, but I found the 2930's performance with this DVD quite impressive none the less. I'm not sure if the current DVD and broadcast use the same film source material or not. (I'm curious if the new DVD will look even better or not.)

Thanks for the pointer to the Audioholics review. A curious review...in the audio evaluation section it goes on at length about DVD-A but says nothing about SACD. Then in the final summary it gives an Excellent for SACD playback! Based on what?

I figured out what the issue was with my DVD-Audio issue...wait for it...OPERATOR ERROR... :o

I had the player in Pure Direct mode, so natuarlly once the selection was made, the video turned off. Yes, I do feel stupid.

Once I fgured that out, I just hit the Select key until I got back to "Normal" and voila - picture!

Thanks to Ruin for trying to help me out. Now at least I know it was me and not a problem with my player, so I can officially go back to loving it completely... ;)

Glad you figured it out. :)

Ruin

will there be a 2930 review on audioholic? maybe comparing the 3910 to 2930 as well just like they did with 3930 and 5910?

will there be a 2930 review on audioholic? maybe comparing the 3910 to 2930 as well just like they did with 3930 and 5910?
I don't know, but they are scheduled to review the '5910CI in a couple of weeks.

On a side note, Superman - The Movie was on InHD Saturday (through my Time Warner cable) with my 57" display from 10 feet back. With the 2930 and the DVD in it, I did some pretty close A/B comparisons. While the cable broadcast had very slightly more *noticable* resolution - particularly in background comparisons - I actually prefered the DVD on the 2930 as the colors and black levels were much, much better and the overall image was just more "alive" and really popped more. Now, I'm sure when it's released on HD DVD, things will be different (which HD DVD being much better) and I do understand that with over-the-air broadcast there are some compromises which sacrifice image quality, but I found the 2930's performance with this DVD quite impressive none the less. I'm not sure if the current DVD and broadcast use the same film source material or not. (I'm curious if the new DVD will look even better or not.)

I recorded Superman on my SA 8300HD. I sit 11' from my ISF'd Samsung 6188. Anyway, I watched selected portions of the movie and felt the brightness was set much to high. It washed out the black level to the point where the picture looked like it had be white washed. No "pop" as David says. While the dvd has less resolution, I prefer it as well. Who knows what the problem is because HD Net usually does a great job. 2001 was off the chart. Even Cool Hand Luke looked better than Superman.

will there be a 2930 review on audioholic?

I asked Clint this in the 3930CI thread on Audioholics, and he said there will be a review of the 2930, but he's not sure as to when.

Kris Deering also promised one, but I wouldn't expect that one too soon either.

It's interesting that the 2930 has been out much longer than the 3930, has a completely new chip, and is much more reasonably priced than the 3930 but doesn't seem to garner as much of the professional reviewers' attention.

I asked Clint this in the 3930CI thread on Audioholics, and he said there will be a review of the 2930, but he's not sure as to when.

Kris Deering also promised one, but I wouldn't expect that one too soon either.

It's interesting that the 2930 has been out much longer than the 3930, has a completely new chip, and is much more reasonably priced than the 3930 but doesn't seem to garner as much of the professional reviewers' attention.

That's easy, their all chasing the newest big thng - HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

I can't believe how the some groups that are swooning over the new formats are the same who trashed the early CDs for years.

That's easy, their all chasing the newest big thng - HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

I can't believe how the some groups that are swooning over the new formats are the same who trashed the early CDs for years.

I own a Denon 3910 no way can it achieve a HD DVD picture (or BD for that matter-and I don't even own a BD player.) Even upscaling you are not going to get the color rendition or resolution of a high def disc, either HD DVD or BD.

alfbinet
Yes, we all know that!

I own a Denon 3910 no way can it achieve a HD DVD picture (or BD for that matter-and I don't even own a BD player.) Even upscaling you are not going to get the color rendition or resolution of a high def disc, either HD DVD or BD.
I own the DVD-2930CI and send a 480P signal to a 38" widescreen direct view CRT that displays it at 480p native. Sure, I'm not going to resolve the kind of fine details that you can only get with the HD formats, but the color rendition is as good as anything I've seen from either the Toshiba or Samsung HD players. I wouldn't have said this with my previous DVD players, but the REON chip in the 2930 does some magic. I get an amazing sense of depth and flesh tones are just beautiful. The details are also noticeably sharper -- and not in a edged enhanced way. I can't say if the perception of color suffers when upscaling, since my CRT is scanning 480 lines. I did pose a question on the HD forums about color and afer much discussion my conclusion is that since SD and HD use different color spaces one may resolve certain color channels better the others, but with a properly calibrated equipment there shouldn't be an across the board difference. Both formats use 8-bit color color with 4:2:0 encoding.

See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745797

I would think that any color differences between the two formats for the same title has more to do with specific the electronics employed than the video formats. So, have people actually done an A/B test of color rendition between the HD-DVD or Blu-ray on one of the Silicon Optics Realta/Reon based Denon DVD players?

I own the DVD-2930CI and send a 480P signal to a 38" widescreen direct view CRT that displays it at 480p native. Sure, I'm not going to resolve the kind of fine details that you can only get with the HD formats, but the color rendition is as good as anything I've seen from either the Toshiba or Samsung HD players. I wouldn't have said this with my previous DVD players, but the REON chip in the 2930 does some magic. I get an amazing sense of depth and flesh tones are just beautiful. The details are also noticeably sharper -- and not in a edged enhanced way. I can't say if the perception of color suffers when upscaling, since my CRT is scanning 480 lines. I did pose a question on the HD forums about color and afer much discussion my conclusion is that since SD and HD use different color spaces one may resolve certain color channels better the others, but with a properly calibrated equipment there shouldn't be an across the board difference. Both formats use 8-bit color color with 4:2:0 encoding.

See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745797

I would think that any color differences between the two formats for the same title has more to do with specific the electronics employed than the video formats. So, have people actually done an A/B test of color rendition between the HD-DVD or Blu-ray on one of the Silicon Optics Realta/Reon based Denon DVD players?

I wouldn't mind seeing this myself. All I know is the colors are more vibrant with an HD DVD disc. Even though I am not a BD fanboy I would think that even the BD folks would agree that high def discs definitely have a awesome color compared to the SD.

Miata is correct. SD and HD-DVDs are both encoded using YCbCr 4:2:0. Same color information. HD-DVD has more pixels and higher bitrate encoded in the source data. Calibration and/or devices involved will make colors "change". HD-DVD definite has more detail and therefore more "depth" to an image which make it look more "life-lke" which some may call "vibrant".

larry

wich settings are the best for DIPC ? Maximum ? (for example 8 or what ?)

Do you have Denonlink on? If so, turn it off. It seems to me that if Denonlink is on it overides HDMI as a sound source. Also, depending on what you are sending the stream to, you may need to set multichannel or 2 channel for the HDMI sound. Also, you may be able to set the type of stream like normal, LPCM, etc. which will make a difference depending on what is decoding the signal.

RuinOK - I cannot get the audio on my 3930 to work. I wanted to use Denon link for audio and directly connect hdmi to my plasma. Here's my setup:

1. Denon 3806 - denon link from 3930
2. Denon 3930 - denon link to 3806, hdmi to plasma
3. Elite plasma - hdmi from 3930

I can't get audio, just for music, to work. Denon link on or off, I still can't get audio to work.

I tried disconnecting denon link and went hdmi from 3930 to 3806 and I still can't get audio to work.

Anyone with suggestions? - thanks

Edit: Disregard my post, I figured it out. I needed to select 'Auto' as an input source on my receiver.

Glad you figured it out. :)

Enjoy!

Ruin

I own a Denon 3910 no way can it achieve a HD DVD picture (or BD for that matter-and I don't even own a BD player.) Even upscaling you are not going to get the color rendition or resolution of a high def disc, either HD DVD or BD.

My 3930 provides superb PQ on my 720 display. I can't imagine that improvements from a HD source on my set would be sufficient to justify replacing my SD DVD collection.

So until I purchase a 1080p display, they fix HD to deliver all of the promises (I will not repeat the list), and software is priced were SD is - I will wait.

But that is not a problem, because as someone who moved to HD 4 months ago, I still can not believe what I am seeing from my old disks. So tweak your system and enjoy. :)

My 3930 provides superb PQ on my 720 display. I can't imagine that improvements from a HD source on my set would be sufficient to justify replacing my SD DVD collection.
Sorry, but true high def discs outperform SD DVDs, and it is very obvious. I'm not saying to rush out and get HD or BD (I'm happy with my 3910 for another year, until the high def formats get their act together better), but don't think you're getting the best PQ available, since it just does not compare to true high def.

Both of you are correct. "True" HD is nicer than even a 3930 upconvered SD DVD.
That being said, it is amazing what PQ you CAN get from SD with the 3930 and a good HD TV. With, what, 60,000 SD DVD titles out there, and a format war still under way, it is going to be a LONG time before everyone is switched over to HD.
Hell, look at broadcast HD. G-d forbid they could have used ONE standard, but no we have 720p and 1080i; and gads the shows still being shot in SD, upconverted by the networks look like crap. Not to mention, wow, how wonderfull is it to get 1080i with sidebars on it from the network. Joy.

I think that well converted SD can hold a person over until it all settles out.
It just kills me that DiscoveryHD and, of all things PBS HD are the best looking channels on television.

Ruin

Doesnt this thread need a new title ("coming september"?) and split into a thread for each machine?

Well, I agree that it is not true HD, but I received my 3930 this past week and it does generate a vast improvement in PQ over 480p component when viewed on a Sony Pearl at 1080p. It does revitalize a SD DVD collection.

As music is at least as important to me as video, the audio performance of this unit is also very impressive.

It is relatively costly, but the overall performance is very, very good. It will last me at least until the format war shakes out, or someone launches a universal player that does both Blue Ray and HD. Only then will I consider taking the plunge into HD. After all, if one is replacing the software used, the cost of the software will ultimately easily exceed the hardware costs.

Could somebody help me by instructing me how to create two separate columns in a post?
The tab key does not seem to work and columns which I try to keep separate by using space bar become a mess in the preview.

Andy

Andy,
I believe you are going to have to use HTML for formatting. There is a special forum here for testing posts: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=46 and you could ask some questions in this forum concering what the forum software supports: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=60&f=43

Good luck. :)

larry

As music is at least as important to me as video, the audio performance of this unit is also very impressive.



did you listen to the 2930 for comparisons sake?

I figure the 2930 will be good enough for video but am trying to deteremine if it's worth spending another $500 for better audio performance

did you listen to the 2930 for comparisons sake?

I figure the 2930 will be good enough for video but am trying to deteremine if it's worth spending another $500 for better audio performance

From my evaluation of both units in my system, the PQ differences are incremental but real.

Now I know that small improvements are expected - typically you have to spend 3x to 4x to obtain the last top 5% to 10% in quality. But, the sound quality was vastly improved from the 2930 - maybe I had a bad unit. The 2930 was a return so it was played and burned-in to some degree. The 3930 was new out of the box. As soon as we pluged it in my wife (who hates my hobby, she just wants to listen to music or watch a film and not equipment) noted the improved open sound stage and better tone quality. In both cases I was using the players processors by going analog out to my preamp. Now I am curious about what a 5910 is capable of - but that has thought been vetoed.

I hear the same things that jeffbook and mcd4959 do and if sound is important to you - you should audition the 3930.

I agree with Viclav and Ruin. I also wholeheartedly agree with btiltman, for the following reason: I have been following this thread while waiting for the 3930 (delivery delayed again), which is the player I am interested in. In the thread people jump between the two models, which is quite confusing for a person only looking for information about one of them (in my case, the 3930). At least in Europe the two models are quite different:


Mechanical construction

3930: 3 chambers, 6 sections
2930: 3 chambers

Bottom plate
3930: 4 layer
2930: 3 layer

Loader tray
3930: Aluminium
2930: “Hybrid”

Drive mechanism
3930: Advanced design, inherited from DVD-5900 (my current player, AKA DVD-A11 in Europe)
2930: Simpler

Power supplies
3930: Multiple; conventional for 2 channels, else switching
2930: Fewer, simpler

Weight
3930: 11,5 kg
2930: 7,6 kg

Video

Video DACs
3930: 216 Mhz 14 bit; 2 x ADV 7324
2930: 216 Mhz 12 bit; 2 x ADV 7320

Video DSP
3930: Realta T2 Fully programmable
2930: Reon Simpler, not fully programmable (as far as I know)

Component outputs
3930: 1 x RCA, 1 x BNC
2930: 1 x RCA


Keystone correction
3930: Yes
2930: No


Audio

DACs
3930: 2 x Burr Brown PCM 1796 for 2 channel audio + 3 x PCM1796; Total: 5
2930: 4 x PCM 1791; Total: 4

Advanced AL 24 Processing
3930: Yes, for stereo
2930: No

AL 24 Plus Processing
3930: Yes, all channels
2930: Yes, all channels

Highly selected components in audio output stage
3930: Yes
2930: No

In Europe, the 3930 costs 130 Euro per kilogram, 2930 - 118 Euro per kilogram. The difference is 12 Euro/kg (roughly US$ 15). Hence, if weight matters, the difference in price per weight unit is not dramatic. Maybe this comparison makes it reasonable to split this thread into two separate ones, called, for example, “Denon DVD-3930 User Thread" and "Denon DVD-2930 User Thread”.

On Denon’s US homepage it is stated that the DVD-3930 employs a DVDO scaler. In the European model, both de-interlacing and scaling are implemented by the Realta chip. Could this be a (highly improbable) difference between European and North American versions or is the information at the US site erroneous?

Andy

Very nice sumation of the differences between the two.

Ruin

Very nice sumation of the differences between the two.

Ruin

Yes, I agree :)

vclaws' post has also convinced to me audition the 3930 for sound.

most people are reporting a significant upgrade over the 2930.

because the Denon will continue to be an audio player in my system long after I've gone hi-def DVD I figure I owe it to myself.

Now I just have to convice the dealer to hook both players up to the same system so that I can compare apples to apples.

Very interesting and thanks andelang.

From what I have read about electronics I think I can understand what's going on between the two units in my system. The power supplies are very important in PQ and sound and with improved processors explains the differences in the audio. However, I convinced that Samsung's DNle system is masking or otherwise limiting some of the video improvements.

Bottom line: I am very satisfied with the 3930 and it continues to improve as it breaks-in. As an A/V enthusiast I am very grateful for all the help from this forum.

However, I convinced that Samsung's DNle system is masking or otherwise limiting some of the video improvements. That's a distinct possibility. Does you display allow DNIe to be turned off? I guess not or otherwise you would have... :)

larry

It is rumored in the samsung thread that the DNle feature can be turned off by a technician. As the unit will be relegated to bedroom duty I can't see spending $200 to turn it off.

On Denon’s US homepage it is stated that the DVD-3930 employs a DVDO scaler. In the European model, both de-interlacing and scaling are implemented by the Realta chip. Could this be a (highly improbable) difference between European and North American versions or is the information at the US site erroneous?

Andy

Very informative post. Thanks. :cool:

I believe it is safe to say that the 3930 does not employ a DVDO scaler unlike the flagship model. It could well be a typing error. The 3930 is a purely Realta based player.

Very informative post. Thanks. :cool:

I believe it is safe to say that the 3930 does not employ a DVDO scaler unlike the flagship model. It could well be a typing error. The 3930 is a purely Realta based player.

to be honest I'd rather have a pure Realta based scaling.

Here is one interesting observation (and a follow up question)

After andelang's comparison of 2930 and 3930, I checked which DVD player and Receiver offerings from Denon use what DAC. The result is the following :

on the DVD front, 2910 and 2930 uses the BurrBrown 1791

on the receiver front, AVR 3805, 3806, 4306, 4806, 5805 all use PCM-1791 (potentially in different numbers and configurations but still the same chip) Upto their flagship model, they use the same chip in the DVD-2930.

Only 3910 and 3930 use PCM-1796 (5910 uses 1792).

Does it directly mean that I get better audio from these DVD players than the flagship Denon receiver??? Probably not.

If I start from the assumption that 4806 and 5805 are much better receivers (also resulting in much better audio output) than my 3805, I have to conclude that it is not the DAC used but the other components supporting it that make the difference. As a corrollary, not necessarily a PCM-1796 powered 3910 (or 3930) is better than the AVR-3805.

My question is exactly that. Can the output of 3805 be better than the 3910 or 3930? (assume the connection between DVD and AVR is DenonLink or equally capable interconnect)

I know I am referring very specific models but I believe there are a lot of "all- Denon" owners around here... :)

arcin

The 5805 uses PCM 1792 DAC's like the 5910. The specs on the Denon USA site are wrong.

Arcin,

You bring up some very good points and questions. The 3910 and 3930 have better DACs than the Denon Recievers. Is the PCM-1791 used/configured better in the 4806/4805 than the 380x recievers?

I have done A-B testing and the 3930's analog out is better than passing things to my 3806 to use the 3806s DACs. I wonder if this is true when using the 4806/5805.

Now I do sometimes pass audio via Denon link so I can use PLxII and Audessey. This isn't an apples to apples comparision because much more is at work here than the DACs. When I play regular CDs with only average quality of mastering/dynamics, this is better (IMHO) to pure analog out.

Regards,
Darrell

I think I know the answer, but i have to ask it anyway hoping I am wrong.

I like to listen to some things using the analog outs ov the 3930. This is input to my Ext I. (Analog bypass) connections, and have a very pure/true sound to it.

Other times, the recording needs a little help from PLxII and/or Audessey, so I like to listen though the Denonlink.

I know that I can hit Stop twice so the cd/DVD comes to a full stop (not standby), then go into setup, move through the menus and select Denonlink. Then you exit the menus and restart the CD/DVD. This isn't the end of the world, but is a pain, especuially when dealing with DVDs or DVD-A. Getting back to your spot can be slow.

Is there another way to make this switch? Maybe there something I am missing like a Config1 Config2 Config3 thing where different configurations are stored and by pressing a key another configuration is loaded.

At the very least, it would be nice to be able ot make this change via a single key press off the remote.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell

Can't you just switch between the EXT In and AUTO mode on the receiver? Not sure if Denon Link disables the analog outs or not when it's switched on (I use it all the time on mine).

Here is one interesting observation (and a follow up question)

After andelang's comparison of 2930 and 3930, I checked which DVD player and Receiver offerings from Denon use what DAC. The result is the following :

on the DVD front, 2910 and 2930 uses the BurrBrown 1791

on the receiver front, AVR 3805, 3806, 4306, 4806, 5805 all use PCM-1791 (potentially in different numbers and configurations but still the same chip) Upto their flagship model, they use the same chip in the DVD-2930.

Only 3910 and 3930 use PCM-1796 (5910 uses 1792).

Does it directly mean that I get better audio from these DVD players than the flagship Denon receiver??? Probably not.

If I start from the assumption that 4806 and 5805 are much better receivers (also resulting in much better audio output) than my 3805, I have to conclude that it is not the DAC used but the other components supporting it that make the difference. As a corrollary, not necessarily a PCM-1796 powered 3910 (or 3930) is better than the AVR-3805.

My question is exactly that. Can the output of 3805 be better than the 3910 or 3930? (assume the connection between DVD and AVR is DenonLink or equally capable interconnect)

I know I am referring very specific models but I believe there are a lot of "all- Denon" owners around here... :)

There is so much more at work than the DAC. The DAC just converts the 0's and 1's to an analog waveform. Everyone wants to talk about the DAC's. And, it is definitely important that the DAC does it's job accurately and consistently, but what happens to that waveform in it's analog state (that which you will HEAR) is likely far more important.

So, while the use of high-quality DAC's is indeed important, the analog output stage of the equipment is more important, in my opinion, than the small changes you get from PCM-1791, 1792, or 1796. Additionally, you need to consider the processing, such as AL24, which helps shape the waveform to sound even more "analog." The big difference between the 2910 and the 2930 is the addition of AL24, which made the 2930 sound "twice as good" (by my ears) as the 2910, especially on redbook material.

So to answer your question, I would say MAYBE. If the analog output stage and processing of the 3805 is better than that of the 3930, it COULD sound better. I would bet that the majority of the 3930's audio benefit is from an improved analog output stage and better processing than the DAC itself.

Now I do sometimes pass audio via Denon link so I can use PLxII and Audessey. This isn't an apples to apples comparision because much more is at work here than the DACs. When I play regular CDs with only average quality of mastering/dynamics, this is better (IMHO) to pure analog out.
I've also got the Denon '3930 and '3806 combo and enjoy playing regular CD's through the player's analogue outputs. However, I tend to use the two-channel output to the stereo CD inputs on the receiver. Is there any difference between doing this and sending the signal from the multi-channel analogue inputs into the receiver's EXT. In inputs?
Regarding DenonLink to take advantage of PLIIx and Audyssey, these can be applied when going analogue into the receiver's CD analogue input.

Jase,

I wish... If you have the DVD player setup for Denon link, then the signal coming out of the Analog output is downconverted to 48khz, 16 bit which defeats the purpose of any high res formats.

Why does Denon do this? I have no idea...

Regards,
Darrell

Darrell

Can't you just switch between the EXT In and AUTO mode on the receiver? Not sure if Denon Link disables the analog outs or not when it's switched on (I use it all the time on mine).

They go through some weird gyrations having to do with copy protection for SACD or some such that messes with the various output combinations.

Ruin

I actually called Denon today and talked with a Level 2 support person. I don't know weather to trust his answer, but I will test it out tonight (hopefully).

I asked about how the Ext. In and DVD Analog inputs worked. Here is the answer I got.

Ext In:
- Stays Analog no matter what.
- Uses Speaker Levels from 3806 Setup.
- Uses Speaker Distances from 3806 Setup.
- Does not do Bass Management.

DVD Analog Input:
- Stays Analog if Mode is set to Stereo, Direct, or Pure Direct WITH EQ/Audessey Off.
- Uses Speaker Levels from 3806 Setup.
- Uses Speaker Distances from 3806 Setup.
- Does do Bass Management. **He said this is still Analog. I question this.
- Gets converted to Digital if you use Cinema type modes, PLxII, or EQ/Audessey.

So, according to the Denon rep, the cleanest 2CH signal is coming out of the 3930 using the 2CH Analog out. This uses the Advanced AL24 which is a notch above the Plus AL24. Then you connect to the DVD Analog inputs. Then Set the EQ Off, and the mode to either Direct or Pure Direct.

If you setup the DVD player to do BM on the 5.1 sound, it probably is active on the 2CH also, so you may have to set the Denon 3806 - 2CH Stereo/Direct setting to Full Speakers so BM is only done once. That is one of the things I need to test out.

That should provide the cleanest signal. Some people like the PLxII/Audessey, but then I think the Denonlink connection would be cleaner so you don't do the double D/A conversions.

The setup is a pain, and the documention is horrid, but the Audio on this player is very nice. I and almost stopped listening to regular CDs until I got this player.

Good Luck,
Darrell

I've also got the Denon '3930 and '3806 combo and enjoy playing regular CD's through the player's analogue outputs. However, I tend to use the two-channel output to the stereo CD inputs on the receiver. Is there any difference between doing this and sending the signal from the multi-channel analogue inputs into the receiver's EXT. In inputs?
Regarding DenonLink to take advantage of PLIIx and Audyssey, these can be applied when going analogue into the receiver's CD analogue input.

That is way too kind. We are having to go through all the gyrations trying to get high res sound out of the high res player. There are more ways to get down ressed sound of a DVD-A or SACD by accident then there are to get the high res sound.

Whoever came up with that implementation ought to be chained to the guy that does thier documentation. Then they both ought to be covered in honey, staked to an ant hill, in the middle of a flood, while lightening bolts are shot from the sky.

In other words, its almost enough to get me to return the player despite the terrific sound. Almost....

They go through some weird gyrations...

I agree.

I actually purchased some very nice interconnects for the 5 channel out thinking that I would use that connection for SACD listening. What I found was that due to the craziness I just use DenonLink all the time and make no use of the analog output at all. It is just easier that way since my AVR4806CI does AL24Plus processing anyway, and it is too much of a pain to reconfigure the setup everytime I want to switch between Redbook CDs using Audyssey, DVD-As and SACDs not to mention the movies which I also like to use Audyseey for. It doesn't make any sense to convert to Analog, the reconvert to digital to perform bass managment/Audyssey and then convert to digital again using the AVR's DACs. I may as well just use the AVR's DACs. Plus, it is just easier to hope that the analog conversion stage in the 4806CI is on a par with the 3930CI (though I bet it is not quite as good), and figure that the DAC configuration in the 4806CI, though not as good as the 3930CI, is adequate and the difference in DACs is probably unoticable given my speakers.

Thats what I tell myself anyway.

Ruin

So, according to the Denon rep, the cleanest 2CH signal is coming out of the 3930 using the 2CH Analog out. This uses the Advanced AL24 which is a notch above the Plus AL24. Then you connect to the DVD Analog inputs. Then Set the EQ Off, and the mode to either Direct or Pure Direct.

Darrell,
Thanks for investigating this and reporting back with such helpful detail. One thing I'm still confused about: When you say "you connect to the DVD Analog inputs" are you referring to the inputs on the receiver? Right now, I'm sending that two-channel analogue output to the "CD" (red and white) inputs on the AVR.

Ruin,

My problem is I want to use all three setups.

Denonlink: for Regular CDs that need the help of PLxII/Audessey.
Ext In: for 5.1 Movies, DVD-A, SACD
2 CH Analog: for well recorded CDs and 2CH SACD

If there were keys on the remote, I could make a macro with my Universal Remote, but since these changes have to be done in the Menus, this makes the task harder.

Are we just unusal that we want to change outputs based upon what we are listening to, or is Denon just (insert explative here).

They provide different capabilities for different outputs, then make switching the outputs a nuisance. Billiant...

Yes, we are talking about the same inputs.

If you run with the EQ off, and the mode set to Direct or Pure Direct, you should have clean sounding output. just be sure you aren't doing BM on both the player and the AVR on the same outputs.

Darrell,
Thanks for investigating this and reporting back with such helpful detail. One thing I'm still confused about: When you say "you connect to the DVD Analog inputs" are you referring to the inputs on the receiver? Right now, I'm sending that two-channel analogue output to the "CD" (red and white) inputs on the AVR.

Final question: Must DenonLink be disabled to take full advantage of the 3930's PCM 1796 DAC's and Advanced AL24 Processing? In other words, if DL's left on will all that processing finesse, filtering and 24-bit upconversion be down-rezzed to 48kHz/16-bit?
(I don't understand why Denon makes it so difficult to enjoy a good thing.) :confused:

Yes, you must go down into the menus and set DLIII to OFF. IF you don't, you will get downrezzed 2CH 48khz, 16 bit sound.

I definetly have a love/hate thing with the 3930. I hate stopping the disk, and going into the menus to make what should be a one button change, but then the music finally starts and I love it.

In an imperfect world I could see Denon releasing a screwed up interface like this ONCE, but I really expected them to fix it the 2nd time around. :mad:

Final question: Must DenonLink be disabled to take full advantage of the 3930's PCM 1796 DAC's and Advanced AL24 Processing? In other words, if DL's left on will all that processing finesse, filtering and 24-bit upconversion be down-rezzed to 48kHz/16-bit?
(I don't understand why Denon makes it so difficult to enjoy a good thing.) :confused:

Yes, you must go down into the menus and set DLIII to OFF. IF you don't, you will get downrezzed 2CH 48khz, 16 bit sound.There are 3 options, (1) OFF, (2) Denon link 2 and (3) Denon link 3. Clarification: are you implying to turn denonlink to OFF?

If you want to get 5.1 audio out of your Analog outputs, YES, you have to turn off Denonlink.

If you leave Denonlink ON, then the signal is downmixed to 2 channels for the analog connections.

There are 3 options, (1) OFF, (2) Denon link 2 and (3) Denon link 3. Clarification: are you implying to turn denonlink to OFF?

Ruin,

My problem is I want to use all three setups.

Denonlink: for Regular CDs that need the help of PLxII/Audessey.
Ext In: for 5.1 Movies, DVD-A, SACD
2 CH Analog: for well recorded CDs and 2CH SACD

If there were keys on the remote, I could make a macro with my Universal Remote, but since these changes have to be done in the Menus, this makes the task harder.

Are we just unusal that we want to change outputs based upon what we are listening to, or is Denon just (insert explative here).

They provide different capabilities for different outputs, then make switching the outputs a nuisance. Billiant...

Oh, I totally agree with you. I just decided that it was too much of a hassle. My saving grace is that my AVR has decent DACs and does AL24plus processing.

It is just sort of rediculous that nothing else of quality works when DenonLink is enabled.

If you ever figure out a good way to do all this switching, let us know. :)

Ruin

Ruin,

In my room, with my equipment, I can hear a difference. The Analog input config provides a clean natural sound. I use this with better sounding CDs, DTS, SCAD, and DVD-A.

The DLIII with Audessey works well with my CDs that aren't well mastered. The Audessey brings out detail that seems to remove the mudiness.

I know you will have different results because of your room, speakers , and I have my 3806 supplemented with Krell amps. Even if you got the same results, I could see where some may go with a simpler and more convienient DLIII setup.

For me the sound advantages are are worth the config switches, but that could change.

Well good luck, and happy listening. I gotta go do more testing. I see that my Advanced AL24 light is on even though I am listening to a 5.1 source. The manual says/implies the light comes on for only for 2CH Advanced AL24 processing.

I'm beginning to think that light just means the Analog ports are active, not the DLIII. Give me just 5 minutes with the Denon Interface designer, just 5 minutes...

Darrell

Oh, I totally agree with you. I just decided that it was too much of a hassle. My saving grace is that my AVR has decent DACs and does AL24plus processing.

It is just sort of rediculous that nothing else of quality works when DenonLink is enabled.

If you ever figure out a good way to do all this switching, let us know. :)

Ruin

Hello to everybody.
I have thoroughly read the whole thread and it took me almost two hours, but I couldn't find any info about 3930 and HDMI 480i capability.
There is a single user who reports a 2930 with 480i HDMI capability, but I could find nobody else with more info especially about a 3930.
I now have a Pioneer and would like to swap it with a 3930 for better audio, but I won't do it without being sure that 480i HDMI works, as I will be using it with a VP50 for video.
Any info would be really welcome.
Thank you all in advance

- Does do Bass Management. **He said this is still Analog. I question this.


If they've rolled down the analog bass management system that's used in the 5805 then it could well be the case. The later Denon AVR's from the 2807 upwards all have similar bass management setups (multiple crossovers, advanced 2ch setup etc).

The older Denon's had 100% analog bypass in Pure Direct Mode even with the sub active but you were stuck with full range signals and could only have the sub on or off.

The DLIII with Audessey works well with my CDs that aren't well mastered. The Audessey brings out detail that seems to remove the mudiness.


Darrell,

As far as 3930 is concerned, I am still a theoretician, as the delivery is delayed until early December. However, I have downloaded the manual and read virtually everything else I could find about it. My current player is a DVD-5900 (aka DVD-A11 in Europe) which in several respects is similar to 3930. My amplifier is the
AVC-A11XVA (= AVR 4806CI minus tuner).

In the quotation above you write as if Audyssey were a feature of DVD-3930.
Audyssey is a room calibration system residing in Denon's receivers/amplifiers, not in DVD players. It can (if you are lucky) calibrate the speaker system with respect to distance, phase, level and crossover to subwoofer for up to 8 different listening positions. As far as I know, it cannot affect sound quality in any other respect than those mentioned above. Successful calibration may render more "equalized" sound, but I have never noticed any difference in detail or
reduction of muddiness. The acoustic environment of my system is tricky and in most cases I listen to music without Audyssey calibration. On the other hand, it works quite well with multichannel movie sound (I have a 7.1 system).

I have thoroughly read the whole thread and it took me almost two hours, but I couldn't find any info about 3930 and HDMI 480i capability.

ninja.rogue,

According to several specifications I have read, the 3930 outputs 480i/p and 576i/p. I have seen some discussions, though, whether the interlaced output is, or is not, processed in any way by the player. In some thread I read a post where the author claimed that the digital output from the MPEG-decoder is de-interlaced and then interlaced again before being sent to output terminals as 480/576i. This would mean that if you want to have a pure, unprocessed digital signal output from the player (which is highly recommendable when using advanced external video processors) you would have to add a SDI modification.

Andy

In the quotation above you write as if Audyssey were a feature of DVD-3930.
Audyssey is a room calibration system residing in Denon's receivers/amplifiers, not in DVD players. It can (if you are lucky) calibrate the speaker system with respect to distance, phase, level and crossover to subwoofer for up to 8 different listening positions. As far as I know, it cannot affect sound quality in any other respect than those mentioned above. Successful calibration may render more "equalized" sound, but I have never noticed any difference in detail or
reduction of muddiness. The acoustic environment of my system is tricky and in most cases I listen to music without Audyssey calibration. On the other hand, it works quite well with multichannel movie sound (I have a 7.1 system).

Andy

I have definitely noticed a difference in detain and "mudiness" with Audyssey on. You see, it all depends on what is causing the mudiness to begin with. Audyssey in and of itself can not clean up a muddy source, is not expanding soundstage, or adding seperation, or many other things, however its balanced EQ of the speakers can add to detail by boosting the sound that was harder to hear and leveling out the overpowering sounds. Also, the room correction can deffinitely reduce mudiness and bring clarity to music that has been overly distored by room acoustics by the time it reaches your ear.

On some systems, in some rooms, this is all very subtle, but on others (like mine) it is very noticable. I have open air on one side of my room, and reflective cabinets and a glass covered firepalce on the other side. Harwood floors with a persian rug partially covering it in front of the listening area, and high windows with blinds behind us. There is definitely a difference with Audyssey in the percieved clarity of the sound. I find that in loud hard rock Audyssey removes much of the mudiness that is somewhat inherent in this type of music and the "clarifying" aspect is more noticable that in classical recordings though those benefit as well.

Positioning can also be enhance by Audyssey by a combination of factors. It does a better job of setting delays and such than a manual attempt does because it uses "virtual"distances if you will that take into account room accoustics. I find that I get better positioning as well as a much better balance between fronts and rears when I let Audyssey to its thing.

Just beware the sub-25hz issues.

Ruin

I'm considering the 3930. I was wondering if someone could please answer this question. My Samsung HLS 6188 is a 1080p/60 set. Does the Denon 3930 output movies 1080p/24? Is so, isn't the 1080p output of the Denon sort of a waste for movies? It's my understanding my set will take a 1080p/24 input, convert it to 1080i/60 and then to 1080p/60. If true, wouldn't one be better off using the 1080i output from the Denon until one had a set that could accept 1080p/24?

I realize I can try it both ways and let my eyes decide, but I'm trying to find out if the 1080p output of the Denon has any advantage at least in theory.

Audyssey is a room calibration system residing in Denon's receivers/amplifiers, not in DVD players. It can (if you are lucky) calibrate the speaker system with respect to distance, phase, level and crossover to subwoofer for up to 8 different listening positions. As far as I know, it cannot affect sound quality in any other respect than those mentioned above. Add to that list that it does equalize each channel individually across the frequency spectrum as confirmed by independant measurements.

Successful calibration may render more "equalized" sound, but I have never noticed any difference in detail or reduction of muddiness. YMMV.

Andelang,

No, you have misread my post. I am well aware of what Audessey is and does. I know that it is function in the reciever that can be appiled to signals that are in a digital state.

My comments before discuss how Audessey can be appiled without multiple D/A to A/D conversion if the 3930 passes the signal via DLIII.

Sorry if mypost seemed unclear.

Regards,
Darrell

Darrell,

As far as 3930 is concerned, I am still a theoretician, as the delivery is delayed until early December. However, I have downloaded the manual and read virtually everything else I could find about it. My current player is a DVD-5900 (aka DVD-A11 in Europe) which in several respects is similar to 3930. My amplifier is the
AVC-A11XVA (= AVR 4806CI minus tuner).

In the quotation above you write as if Audyssey were a feature of DVD-3930.
Audyssey is a room calibration system residing in Denon's receivers/amplifiers, not in DVD players.

Since DLIII is a pure digital connection, you don't have multiple DA/AD conversion.
You go digital to the receiver, Audyssey/Bass Management, etc. is applied, then you have a single DA conversion.

If you are using DLIII you will not be using any of the distance/bass management/ etc. in the 3930CI. If I am not mistaken you can't even access that stuff with DL active.

Ruin

Ruin,

My room sounds very similar to your and my experience with Audessey is similar. since getting the 3806, I have moved furniture, re-arranged the room completely, moved speakers, upgraded speakers, added bass traps, and panels to dela with 1st reflections. I have probably run the Audessey close to 100 times (ok, well 60 for sure).

With all that, I have gotten to see how Audessey deals with different things. The results do vary greatly depending on all the factors above.

I too have the 25hz issue. I found if I can get the speakers 4-5 ft away from every wall, it clears up. Yeah, that can be hard to do in small to medium sized rooms. lol Did you find a cure in your system?

Regards,
Darrell

I have definitely noticed a difference in detain and "mudiness" with Audyssey on. You see, it all depends on what is causing the mudiness to begin with. Audyssey in and of itself can not clean up a muddy source, is not expanding soundstage, or adding seperation, or many other things, however its balanced EQ of the speakers can add to detail by boosting the sound that was harder to hear and leveling out the overpowering sounds. Also, the room correction can deffinitely reduce mudiness and bring clarity to music that has been overly distored by room acoustics by the time it reaches your ear.

On some systems, in some rooms, this is all very subtle, but on others (like mine) it is very noticable. I have open air on one side of my room, and reflective cabinets and a glass covered firepalce on the other side. Harwood floors with a persian rug partially covering it in front of the listening area, and high windows with blinds behind us. There is definitely a difference with Audyssey in the percieved clarity of the sound. I find that in loud hard rock Audyssey removes much of the mudiness that is somewhat inherent in this type of music and the "clarifying" aspect is more noticable that in classical recordings though those benefit as well.

Positioning can also be enhance by Audyssey by a combination of factors. It does a better job of setting delays and such than a manual attempt does because it uses "virtual"distances if you will that take into account room accoustics. I find that I get better positioning as well as a much better balance between fronts and rears when I let Audyssey to its thing.

Just beware the sub-25hz issues.

Ruin

I'm considering the 3930. I was wondering if someone could please answer this question. My Samsung HLS 6188 is a 1080p/60 set. Does the Denon 3930 output movies 1080p/24? Is so, isn't the 1080p output of the Denon sort of a waste for movies? It's my understanding my set will take a 1080p/24 input, convert it to 1080i/60 and then to 1080p/60. If true, wouldn't one be better off using the 1080i output from the Denon until one had a set that could accept 1080p/24?

I realize I can try it both ways and let my eyes decide, but I'm trying to find out if the 1080p output of the Denon has any advantage at least in theory.

It is really about which does a better job of pulldown and deinterlacing the 3930 or your Samsung TV. I don't know that there is going to be much hard evidence as to that question. As you said, you will have to let your eyes decide.
However, by outputting 1080i from the 3930 you are still using the Denon for the conversion from 24 to 60, you are just letting your TV do the deinterlacing.

Personally, I don't find the 1080p output of the Denon to be a waste. It looks subtley better than allowing my TV to do the deinterlacing.

Ruin

Ruin,

My room sounds very similar to your and my experience with Audessey is similar. since getting the 3806, I have moved furniture, re-arranged the room completely, moved speakers, upgraded speakers, added bass traps, and panels to dela with 1st reflections. I have probably run the Audessey close to 100 times (ok, well 60 for sure).

With all that, I have gotten to see how Audessey deals with different things. The results do vary greatly depending on all the factors above.

I too have the 25hz issue. I found if I can get the speakers 4-5 ft away from every wall, it clears up. Yeah, that can be hard to do in small to medium sized rooms. lol Did you find a cure in your system?

Regards,
Darrell

I didn't find a cure, but mostly because I don't need one at the moment. I litteraly do not have the room to place a decent subwoofer that goes down past the 25hz range. I am using the subs in my tower speakers which really, though they theoreticaly go down to 20Hz, only go down to 30Hz or so. I still find more rolloff at the bottom end than I like, but all I have done is boost the sub 3db to correct for that. This boosts everthing below 80hz of course, but I have no way of fine tuning the very low end. Overall I am pleased with the result.

Ruin

Yes, you must go down into the menus and set DLIII to OFF. IF you don't, you will get downrezzed 2CH 48khz, 16 bit sound.

I definetly have a love/hate thing with the 3930. I hate stopping the disk, and going into the menus to make what should be a one button change, but then the music finally starts and I love it.:mad:
If you set the '3930's Pure Direct mode to digital off, doesn't that turn off DenonLink, thereby preventing the signal from being downrezzed to 48kHz/16-bit? That's a lot easier than going into the setup menu to disable DenonLink.

S2silber,

I have used the Pure direct mode when using the DLIII, and I didn't notice it switch over to Analog, but I didn't specifically look for it.

I'm reading the Owners manual now, and you seem to be 100% correct. Even with Denon's poor documentation, they seem to back what you say. I don't see how thier description could mean anything else. Have you tested this?

This would be so great if this is the fix. It is an odd fix, but an easy one. I will check it out tonight.

Thanks so much for posting this.

Darrell

If it works like my A1XVA (5910CI) then Denon Link is still active even when everything is OFF for the Pure Direct settings. Odd, but true. Might just be a glitch with my unit though.

DenonLink is still active for me even with Pure Direct. All the video portions of the unit go off, and all the correction ciruitry is off, but the correction circuitry is not used on the DenonLink connection anyway, only the ciruitry in your AVR would be used.

I wouldn't want that anyway even if it worked because I would want to use the distance setup and bass management in the 3930 so I would never use the "purest of pure" mode. I can't be rearranging furniture and putting room treatments all over in my living room. The wife would kill me. :)

Ruin

Maybe we can get it going by setting up Pure Direct Mode 1, with Digital Output to OFF. Obviously the Denon Manual is incorrect. I am just hoping it is incorrect in some parts of the Pure Direct info. @#$%@ Denon, get a new documentation person...

You are right... Most wifes would have major issues with the arranging, rearranging, acoustic panales, temporary cabling, loud testing, etc. I have done recently. It's a good thing I am single.

It is a great test to know if you have a Keeper though. :D

DenonLink is still active for me even with Pure Direct. All the video portions of the unit go off, and all the correction ciruitry is off, but the correction circuitry is not used on the DenonLink connection anyway, only the ciruitry in your AVR would be used.

I wouldn't want that anyway even if it worked because I would want to use the distance setup and bass management in the 3930 so I would never use the "purest of pure" mode. I can't be rearranging furniture and putting room treatments all over in my living room. The wife would kill me. :)

Ruin

LOL..the fact that overa two month period I bought the AVR4806CI, the 3930CI, Polk Audio LSi25s, LSiC, LSi9s, a power filter, a Mitsubhishi 65831, a dozen more DVD-As, 4 SACDs, around 30 more movies, new highgrade speaker cable to custom lengths, new interconnects, a new wireless bridge (for the 4806CI networking)and a new entertainment center to fit it all in...

And she allowed it :)

Could be a keeper.

Ruin

You'll just have to buy her a new car now to keep things even. ;)

Yep, no arguments here. She sounds like a keeper... So you don't get to trash the living room for a month or two. It's not all that much fun anyway. :)

LOL..the fact that overa two month period I bought the AVR4806CI, the 3930CI, Polk Audio LSi25s, LSiC, LSi9s, a power filter, a Mitsubhishi 65831, a dozen more DVD-As, 4 SACDs, around 30 more movies, new highgrade speaker cable to custom lengths, new interconnects, a new wireless bridge (for the 4806CI networking)and a new entertainment center to fit it all in...

And she allowed it :)

Could be a keeper.

Ruin

Heh, if I had to play the tit for tat game (the new car) she wouldn't be a keeper. :)

She still doesn't like that I have yet to hide the speaker wire to the surrounds properly. Its on my list. :)

Heck our living room IS trashed, just not with my stuff. Its her stuff and the kid's stuff.

Ruin

P.S. for my wife's taste in a new car, I could recreate the new system 4 times or so. :)

R

OK, I tested the Pure Direct setup as suggested above hoping that it would turn off the Digital Outputs like it says in the Manual. It does not do it.

All 3930 users, please go to page 28 of your manual, tear it out and use it for toilet paper. It is the only use fitting of that incorrect page in the manual.

Denon, next time you design a nice sounding piece of equipment, pay the few extra dollars to test and document it so people will want to by Denon products again.

If Denon ever goes under, a part of me will be laughing my @ss off. What a bunch of knuckleheads they have writing and approving thier Manuals for release.

The Denon manuals are crap, and it's really starting to annoy me. Every time I refer to the 2930 manual for an explanation of a particular function, I'm more confused then when I was initially.

AFAIK Denon has always had crap manuals. Current ones are big and extensive and... don't really explain the things you NEED explained.

Ok, enough of the pity party. Trial and error, thats the ticket!

:)

Ruin

:) Now now gentlemen, let's all remember, tis the season to be grateful. :D

I think that we need to approach the 2930 and 3930 from a different direction other than a just a DVD player. Both have has played every shinney disk and format that I have and played them very well, thank you. It strikes me that these are more computer centric. Therefore, some of these issues could and should be addressed by programming. As a newbe to the brand I don't know how responsive Denon's Owner's Club is or how to contact them. I would hope that dmccombs and Ruin's operational issues can be resolved by a software update. Does anyone know how to being these issues to Denon?

Anyway, after buying my first DVD-A I ran back to Tower's closing sale and spent over $300 on every DVD-A (@40% off) I could find and some CDs. FYI the DVD-A sounds better to me than SACD. The high-rez format finally exceeds the performance of my $4k CD player consistently (no I don't have a disk in both formats - just enjoying the sound and presentation).

BTW, after 41 years my wife (who came with a set of balance scales - but no blindfold) is still on the fence and survives only because she keeps telling me that I am waaaay ahead.

To The Rang - ever get that 3930?

What would be helpful is if Denon posted an FAQ about optimizing audio performance on their website.

What would be helpful is if Denon posted an FAQ about optimizing audio performance on their website.

Thanks for the PM. FYI you need to clear some space my reply got bounced.

No video via the HDMI cable..

I am a previous 2910 owner and the HDMI worked flawless on that model.
Yesturday I got a new 3930ci model. I hooked it up the same way with they same cable as I used with my 2910. I verified that everything was turned on in the pure direct mode. There is no setting in my SONY SXRD TV to turn on or off hdmi.

When I select SOURCE & SELECT on the remote, it takes me through the various output modes, however when HDMI is selected it reads HDMI OFF. On the display of the 3930 player the indicator light that reads "HDMI" just blinks on and off constantly.
Do I have a faulty 3930?

BKSinAZ, connect via component, then go into the 3930 menu to activate the HDMI output.

BKSinAZ, connect via component, then go into the 3930 menu to activate the HDMI output.

Already hooked up via component. To the best of my knowledge, there is no activation feature in the 3930 menu setting. Actually, I am sure as I have already been through the 5 of 6 screens in the menu settings.

Perhaps detailed directions?

To The Rang - ever get that 3930?

No, not yet.

My 2930 has arrived but I have resisted picking it up because I'm still thinking about the 3930. The dealer doesn't want to take apart two systems so that I can hear them together, through the same amp and speakers, before deciding. And they seem to be prepared to offer me a better discount percentage wise on the 2930.

So, at his suggestion, I may bring home the 2930 regardless because I have a full 30 day return policy.
Plus he is convinced the prices will drop when Blue Ray finally shows up.

No video via the HDMI cable..

I am a previous 2910 owner and the HDMI worked flawless on that model.
Yesturday I got a new 3930ci model. I hooked it up the same way with they same cable as I used with my 2910. I verified that everything was turned on in the pure direct mode. There is no setting in my SONY SXRD TV to turn on or off hdmi.

When I select SOURCE & SELECT on the remote, it takes me through the various output modes, however when HDMI is selected it reads HDMI OFF. On the display of the 3930 player the indicator light that reads "HDMI" just blinks on and off constantly.
Do I have a faulty 3930?

Your 3930 is likely just fine.

On the remote, use the HDMI "SELECT" button to turn on the HDMI video output. It is turned off when purchased from the factory. Cyclng this button will select either YCbCR or RGB format video signals. Hit it too often and you turn off the HDMI again. The selected format will be displayed on the 3930 panel display. The "FORMAT" button lets you select the output resolution to match with your projector/monitor.


All of this is described on page 29 of the crappy user's manual. :cool:
This manual is so bad, it took me 20 minutes of frustration to turn on the HDMI output on my unit. One would think that turning on HDMI would be selected from the regular setup menu selections, not just the remote.

Jeff Bookwalter
Columbus, OH

Your 3930 is likely just fine.

On the remote, use the HDMI "SELECT" button to turn on the HDMI video output. It is turned off when purchased from the factory. Cyclng this button will select either YCbCR or RGB format video signals. Hit it too often and you turn off the HDMI again. The selected format will be displayed on the 3930 panel display. The "FORMAT" button lets you select the output resolution to match with your projector/monitor.


All of this is described on page 29 of the crappy user's manual. :cool:
This manual is so bad, it took me 20 minutes of frustration to turn on the HDMI output on my unit. One would think that turning on HDMI would be selected from the regular setup menu selections, not just the remote.

Jeff Bookwalter
Columbus, OH

I did as you instructed already. When pressing the "SELECT" button, it cycles thru the YcbCR and RBG format video signals. However when it cycles to the HDMI, it reads HDMI off. I then pressed the FORMAT button thinking that HDMI will turn to on, but it does not.. the tv blinks for a second, but thats all.

Perhaps we can chat over the phone on my dime so maybe you can walk me through this issue? My email is BKSinAZ@yahoo.com

Jeff, you beat me, had the same issue selecting HDMI On should work - try the video knob. If not reboot (reset page 48) and try again.

Jeff, you beat me, had the same issue selecting HDMI On should work - try the video knob. If not reboot (reset page 48) and try again.

Already tried video knob. It even presses in-ward, but the manual does not explain the in-ward motions function.

I will resort to reset on page 48. I am curious in setup menus are correct. Any advice?

Already tried video knob. It even presses in-ward, but the manual does not explain the in-ward motions function.

I will resort to reset on page 48. I am curious in setup menus are correct. Any advice?

Menus are correct in the manual. Turn the knob until "RGB 1080i" is indicated and push in-ward to select. This turns on the HDMI. Now you can select other resolutions by toggling HDMI Format on the remote 480, 720, 1080p.

I did as you instructed already. When pressing the "SELECT" button, it cycles thru the YcbCR and RBG format video signals. However when it cycles to the HDMI, it reads HDMI off. I then pressed the FORMAT button thinking that HDMI will turn to on, but it does not.. the tv blinks for a second, but thats all.

Perhaps we can chat over the phone on my dime so maybe you can walk me through this issue? My email is BKSinAZ@yahoo.com

Don't cycle it back to HDMI. Select one of the formats.

Ruin

All you should have to do is press the HDMI "Select" button until it reads something other than "HDMI OFF"

On another note, I know there was some question as to whether the component out and HDMI out would work in parallel, and they do on the 2930.

I just got the Denon dvd-3930ci and I was so thrilled but now that feeling has quickly gone away. No video thru the HDMI cable. HDMI light just blinks on and off on the display screen. I upgraded from the 2910 and that HDMI worked like a charm.


I read the manual...can you say WORTHLESS :(

Everything in PURE DIRCT MODE is on as described by manual.
DENONLINK is set to off as described by manual.
I drank a strong drink as prescribed by myself. :p

On the remote I pressed the HDMI SELECT button and selected the desired options. Still no HDMI video. I verified my issue by removing all component video cables from back of DVD player leaving HDMI cable still hooked up. No HDMI signal verified.

I did notice one thing odd. Inside the DVD setup screens, one of the screens is the AUDIO SETUP screen. On this screen the only thing I can adust is the COMPRESSION. (however this is the audio setup screen and my problem probably has nothing to do with this screen.)

Any advice by you experts?

What are you hooking this up to? Are all the components in the change DHCP compliant?

Ruin

I did notice one thing odd. Inside the DVD setup screens, one of the screens is the AUDIO SETUP screen. On this screen the only thing I can adust is the COMPRESSION. (however this is the audio setup screen and my problem probably has nothing to do with this screen.)

Any advice by you experts?

I have the 2930CI, and while the video though HDMI and component is working fine, I have the exact same problem in audio setup as you do. Nothing is selectable except for compression.

Jack

If you are using DenonLink or HDMI for audio, you are sending out a digital steam to your AVR so you don't get to do anything other than decide to compress or not compress it. If you switch to using the analog output then you will get all the selections for audio.

Ruin

What are you hooking this up to? Are all the components in the change DHCP compliant?

Ruin

Not sure is my display is DHCP, but it is a 2005 Sony KDS-R50XBR1 50" Grand Wega SXRD TV. This worked with the Denon 2910 dvd player that I just upgraded from. It was compliant for the denon dvd-2910. Pre/pre is a yamaha rx-v2095 receiver which only has an optical cable connected from it to the DVD player. However this is irrelevent to my problem due to that I only have a video issue, not an audio issue.

Did the denon dvd-2910 require a DHCP compliant television? Besides, is'nt DHCP only required for computer or computer network setup? No computer is involved with my home theater.

If you are using DenonLink or HDMI for audio, you are sending out a digital steam to your AVR so you don't get to do anything other than decide to compress or not compress it. If you switch to using the analog output then you will get all the selections for audio.

Ruin

What exact menu screen is the setting to change from HDMI audio to analog output?

Not sure is my display is DHCP, but it is a 2005 Sony KDS-R50XBR1 50" Grand Wega SXRD TV. This worked with the Denon 2910 dvd player that I just upgraded from. It was compliant for the denon dvd-2910. Pre/pre is a yamaha rx-v2095 receiver which only has an optical cable connected from it to the DVD player. However this is irrelevent to my problem due to that I only have a video issue, not an audio issue.

Did the denon dvd-2910 require a DHCP compliant television? Besides, is'nt DHCP only required for computer or computer network setup? No computer is involved with my home theater.

You will find that DHCP exists accross all the high def world, not just computers.
The enitre chain needs to be compliant if even one component is looking for compliance.

Just for grins, plug directly into the TV without going through the yamaha and see what that does. You could also try swaping out cables.

I hate this accross the board copy protection bullshit that penalized the many to try, mostly unsuccessfully, to stop the few. I bet it costs more money to implement this crap than they loose in illegal copying.

Ruin

P.S. of course, this still could be a setup problem that we haven't figured out.

R

What exact menu screen is the setting to change from HDMI audio to analog output?

I will have to run down and look at it. In the mean time, do you have any analog connections hooked up?

Ruin

I was hoping it would be out in the USA by now.

Here in Australia I have one ordered and ETA is Sept. 25

Well I am still waiting patiently, due 20 November now.
Going to be an expensive Nov/Dec for me with Denon 3930, Topfield Hi Def PVR (Australia) and new Escient due before Christmas.

You will find that DHCP exists accross all the high def world, not just computers.
The enitre chain needs to be compliant if even one component is looking for compliance.

Just for grins, plug directly into the TV without going through the yamaha and see what that does. You could also try swaping out cables.

I hate this accross the board copy protection bullshit that penalized the many to try, mostly unsuccessfully, to stop the few. I bet it costs more money to implement this crap than they loose in illegal copying.

Ruin

P.S. of course, this still could be a setup problem that we haven't figured out.

R

Ruin..
the only thing that is going thru my Yamaha is the digital Optical Audio Cable for audio. For grins I will remove.

I will have to run down and look at it. In the mean time, do you have any analog connections hooked up?

Ruin

Analog.....? You mean the component video YCBCR? Yes, that is hooked up. I also have the hdmi and the optical audio cable (which just goes directly to the receiver.) No 5.1 audio cables are hooked up. Only Comp, HDMI and Optical.

I needed to hook up the comp YCBCR cables because HDMI no funtioning and I needed to see menu settings of DVD player on TV screen

I also removed comp YCRCB cable completley to see if HDMI engages. No Luck.

I am confused. We seem to be talking about two issues with you, one is audio yes? Hence the analog vs digital/HDMI discussion and one the no video issue, yes?

If you actually want analog audio, just hook up analog connections, and set HDMI audio to 2channel. If you do that, then multichannel analog will be output. Also, though you are clearly not using DenonLink, make sure it is actually set to off in the menus. Also, play around with the digital output setting. I think there is a "Normal" and a "PCM" setting. Also, there is a downmix on or off setting.

Hell, getting these high end Denon devices working initially is like a huge troubleshooting session even when it is all working properly.

On the video side, it has never been clear that you have selected YCbr or RGB and left it there. You seem to always cycle back to HDMI. This in effect turns off HDMI.
Select one of the color output modes, and leave it there. Then the other button on the remote next to it will let you cycle through the resolutions.
I had issues with this as well, and I remember being very frustrated and then something occured to me, I made a change, and it worked. I was like..DUH. Unfortunately, even though that was only a couple of weeks ago, I can't remember what that was. I do know that what I thought were settings that should apply to component video, actually turned out to affect HDMI.

Wish I could be more helpful.

Ruin

Heh you just posted above me while I was answering your previous post.

R

I know this is a stupid question, but you are sure you have the HDMI input selected on the TV?

Ruin

I am confused. We seem to be talking about two issues with you, one is audio yes? Hence the analog vs digital/HDMI discussion and one the no video issue, yes?

If you actually want analog audio, just hook up analog connections, and set HDMI audio to 2channel. If you do that, then multichannel analog will be output. Also, though you are clearly not using DenonLink, make sure it is actually set to off in the menus. Also, play around with the digital output setting. I think there is a "Normal" and a "PCM" setting. Also, there is a downmix on or off setting.

Hell, getting these high end Denon devices working initially is like a huge troubleshooting session even when it is all working properly.

On the video side, it has never been clear that you have selected YCbr or RGB and left it there. You seem to always cycle back to HDMI. This in effect turns off HDMI.
Select one of the color output modes, and leave it there. Then the other button on the remote next to it will let you cycle through the resolutions.
I had issues with this as well, and I remember being very frustrated and then something occured to me, I made a change, and it worked. I was like..DUH. Unfortunately, even though that was only a couple of weeks ago, I can't remember what that was. I do know that what I thought were settings that should apply to component video, actually turned out to affect HDMI.

Wish I could be more helpful.

Ruin

Ruin..First let me start by thanking you for your assistance and patience with me.
You seem to know what your talking about. I realize it is difficult to trouble shoot problems via short messages back and forth. Using the remote control, I did select HDMI SELECT button. I then selected YCBCR and I choosed 720p (and every other resolution) but HDMI still did not work. I verified this by removing the component video cables and leaving only the HDMI cable hooked up. There is no HDMI on/off setting in the Television menu settings, besides it was working with my denon 2910 and no settings were changed in tv.

I was wondering, to eliminate confusion, is there a way we could speak over the phone about this issue? I would call and pay all long distance charges and promise to only take 5 minutes or so of your time. If this is possible, please email me your phone # to BKSinAZ@yahoo.com and I will attempt to call you tomorrow about 3pm arizona time or a time you specify. I am off to work now.

Check your email.

R

BKSinAZ,

I know your frustrations. I stayed up till 3am trying to fix the same thing...I tried all tricks, reboot, unplug then reboot, change different settings in the setup menu

I just got my 3930 3 days ago. I had the same problem, ie no HDMI signals coming from the player to my projector. But I know my projector and HDMI cables work fine because the moment I plug the HDMI cable into my old DVD player, it works.

The shop was nice enough to bring another new 3930 to my place and tested both of them, the guy only get some flickering HDMI signals for a while using either of the 3930's. Finally we tried to use the HDMI cable that he brought along, which was only 8 feet long, and both machines worked perfectly with HDMI output in all resolutions.

My original HDMI cable is 15 meters long, roughly 45 feet, but it works perfectly with my old DVD player. I think the problem is that the HDMI output signal from the 3930 is too weak to work with long cables. Any thought anyone?

BKSinAZ, how long is your HDMI cable? Maybe you want to try a shorter one.


3 options for me:
1. return the 3930 and get something else? (nay, the picture and sound quality is great, i am keeping the machine :D )
2. signal enhancer? (any thought? will it corrupt the signal? any good one out there for cheap?)
3. new shorter HDMI cable? (this means ripping out the old cable from inside the wall, put the 3930 somewhere nearer the projector...Wife may rip my guts out first)

or, tweak the HDMI output signals, again this may corrupt the signals.

I am going to contact the tech guys of Denon, maybe they have a simple solution. But I aint too hopeful....customer service is notoriously poor where I am (in Hong Kong).

BTW, my projector is Mitsubishi HC3000.

If you are using DenonLink or HDMI for audio, you are sending out a digital steam to your AVR so you don't get to do anything other than decide to compress or not compress it. If you switch to using the analog output then you will get all the selections for audio.

Ruin

Thanks for the info, Ruin.
Here's how I'm connected:
2930CI is connected to my receiver (Yamaha RX-V2700) via HDMI, and receiver to tv via HDMI. I also have component video and two channel analog from the player to another input on the tv (which only has one HDMI input). This makes it easier for my wife to use when she doesn't want to bother with the whole sound system. I have the inputs on the tv labeled cable box, DVD and receiver. She can just select the DVD input and everything works fine; video and audio to the tv work as they should.
I also have the player's 5.1 analog outs connected to the receiver's multichannel input. I use this, of course, when playing SACD's. I originally couldn't get sound through center, sub or surrounds when using multichannel, but a reset of the player solved that (although I don't know why; just happy it works).
I have DenonLink turned off in the player.
So, to access all of the settings in the audio setup menu, do I have to actually turn off HDMI, or even remove the HDMI cable? I only want to get into the additional settings so I can use base management, etc. for the analog multichannel outputs. If I do have to turn off HDMI or remove the cable to do this, after I reconnect the cable or turn HDMI back on, will any adjustments I make in audio for multichannel "stick"?
I'm very pleased with PQ and SQ of the player. This audio setup is the only issue I have.
Thanks again for your help for those of us who are having issues.
You rock!

Jack

To use analog multi-channel output, you have to have the AUDIO hdmi set to 2channel (or maybe even off?). This will allow you to access the audio setup menu and use the 5.1 outputs.

HDMI carries both VIDEO and AUDIO signals. Changing the HDMI audio settings does not mean you can't use HDMI for video.

Does that help?

In the new 2006 Dec issue's multichannel music component product of the year both the Denon 3910 and 5910 came in as runner-up to the $18,000 Meridian 861 player. I don't think they have tested the 3930 yet.

To use analog multi-channel output, you have to have the AUDIO hdmi set to 2channel (or maybe even off?). This will allow you to access the audio setup menu and use the 5.1 outputs.

HDMI carries both VIDEO and AUDIO signals. Changing the HDMI audio settings does not mean you can't use HDMI for video.

Does that help?

Hi Dustin. Yep, I just tried that a few minutes ago, and came on here to post that very thing!
Unfortunately, setting the HDMI audio back to multi-normal reverts the audio settings on the audio menu back to where they were (bass enhancement off, etc.).
I assume I want the HDMI set to multi-normal in order to output audio via HDMI as bitstream to allow the receiver to decode movie soundtracks with Dolby, DTS, etc., correct?
It's a bit of a pain, but not that big a deal to do.
I get multichannel output with HDMI set to multi-normal and selecting the multichannel input on my receiver, but wanted to try the bass enhancement in the audio setup menu. Still have some experimenting to do.
Thanks!
Jack

I have not successfully gotten into the additional audio setings with the HDMI enabled. I do beleive if you disconnect it, and do your setup, then when you use the analog output your settings will stick. I don't have any analog interconnects hooked up atm and it is a pain in the rear for me to do so right now so I can't really duplicate your setup. In theory, if you just set the HDMI audio to two channel, and you have DLink off, you should get proper multichannel analog out using the distance settings, bass management, etc. in your unit.

I disconnected all my analog connections because I just found that switching from one to the other in all this was just crazy, so I took a simplied route; but of course I have the use of DLink because if my Denon AVR.

Ruin

I have not successfully gotten into the additional audio setings with the HDMI enabled. I do beleive if you disconnect it, and do your setup, then when you use the analog output your settings will stick. I don't have any analog interconnects hooked up atm and it is a pain in the rear for me to do so right now so I can't really duplicate your setup. In theory, if you just set the HDMI audio to two channel, and you have DLink off, you should get proper multichannel analog out using the distance settings, bass management, etc. in your unit.

I disconnected all my analog connections because I just found that switching from one to the other in all this was just crazy, so I took a simplied route; but of course I have the use of DLink because if my Denon AVR.

Ruin

Yeah, it's a bit of a pain. I don't have all that many SACD's, so I'm not going to make myself crazy with it now.
I'm just glad I found out why I couldn't get into those settings. I thought I was going to have to send it in for service.
All in all, I'm VERY pleased with the SQ and PQ.
Thanks again, Ruin.
Jack

No video via the HDMI cable..

I am a previous 2910 owner and the HDMI worked flawless on that model.
Yesturday I got a new 3930ci model. I hooked it up the same way with they same cable as I used with my 2910. I verified that everything was turned on in the pure direct mode. There is no setting in my SONY SXRD TV to turn on or off hdmi.

When I select SOURCE & SELECT on the remote, it takes me through the various output modes, however when HDMI is selected it reads HDMI OFF. On the display of the 3930 player the indicator light that reads "HDMI" just blinks on and off constantly.
Do I have a faulty 3930?

Thank You Ruin

BKSinAZ,

I know your frustrations. I stayed up till 3am trying to fix the same thing...I tried all tricks, reboot, unplug then reboot, change different settings in the setup menu

I just got my 3930 3 days ago. I had the same problem, ie no HDMI signals coming from the player to my projector. But I know my projector and HDMI cables work fine because the moment I plug the HDMI cable into my old DVD player, it works.

The shop was nice enough to bring another new 3930 to my place and tested both of them, the guy only get some flickering HDMI signals for a while using either of the 3930's. Finally we tried to use the HDMI cable that he brought along, which was only 8 feet long, and both machines worked perfectly with HDMI output in all resolutions.

My original HDMI cable is 15 meters long, roughly 45 feet, but it works perfectly with my old DVD player. I think the problem is that the HDMI output signal from the 3930 is too weak to work with long cables. Any thought anyone?

BKSinAZ, how long is your HDMI cable? Maybe you want to try a shorter one.


3 options for me:
1. return the 3930 and get something else? (nay, the picture and sound quality is great, i am keeping the machine :D )
2. signal enhancer? (any thought? will it corrupt the signal? any good one out there for cheap?)
3. new shorter HDMI cable? (this means ripping out the old cable from inside the wall, put the 3930 somewhere nearer the projector...Wife may rip my guts out first)

or, tweak the HDMI output signals, again this may corrupt the signals.

I am going to contact the tech guys of Denon, maybe they have a simple solution. But I aint too hopeful....customer service is notoriously poor where I am (in Hong Kong).

BTW, my projector is Mitsubishi HC3000.

My problem was resolved by Ruin. He might talk with you over the phone if you ask him. My problem was simple. It seems that in my television settings menu I have 8 video modes. (Example...Video 1 thru 8 which is the TV/VIDEO button on the tv's remote) I did not realize that each mode was connected directly to (looking at) a set of inputs on the rear panel of the tv. For example, I had my dvd player set to VIDEO 4. However, VIDEO 4 is the YCRCB inputs. Once I established which of the 8 video modes was looking at the HDMI input and set my television to that setting I then got my HDMI to work. See if you got the same problem. Go to your tv menu settings and look at all the video modes. On my television it is the section that says "Label Video Inputs". Hope that works.

PS.. I established my video label settings by first going into the Television's menu settings and labeled all 8 video modes "DVD". Then I disconnected the component video cables and left the HDMI cable connected. I then, with a dvd movie playing, pressed the TV/VIDEO button on the TV's remote control, slowly but repeatedly, till I went thru all 8 modes and the movie showed on the screen.

My problem was resolved by Ruin. He might talk with you over the phone if you ask him. My problem was simple. It seems that in my television settings menu I have 8 video modes...As with my experience when something does not work, I usually - not always - find the issue to be "User Error".

BKSinAZ,

My problem is different from yours. I choose the input format directly in the projector, ie HDMI, component etc. It is clearly the length of the HDMI cable that matters. I am yet to determine the longest length of HDMI cable I could use with the 3930 (again, the brand of the cable is another variable one must consider).

I am waiting for the tech guy from Denon to review the situation.

Any idea whether this is a design fault in the 3930?

no idea about the design fault question, but I do know that when you get to long distances the cable matters. Over short runs any cable that is actually HDMI compliant will do fine ( you do NOT need Monster cables). If you start getting to 20 feet and up you need a really well designed cable.

Personally, I think the entire HDMI thing is not ready for prime time. There are way too many connection issues on the boards that are NOT user error. I am fortunate that I am using cheap, short HDMI cables and the only problem I have is that by STB occasionally (once every 2 days perhaps) starts blinking the signal on and off over HDMI, but all I have to do is turn it off and then back on and it is fine.

Good luck!

Ruin

P.S. Have you tried moving them closer and using a shorter cable to make sure that is the issue? That would let you know if it is a configuration issue with the 3930, or even perhaps a problem with that output. I would think that QA would catch a faulty HDMI output, but you never know.

R

It is clearly the length of the HDMI cable that matters. I am yet to determine the longest length of HDMI cable I could use with the 3930 (again, the brand of the cable is another variable one must consider).


You are probably right abt the cable. The denon is definitely more picky. My 30ft long cable worked perfectly with all the pio players I have tried (59/79) and a couple of video processors , but for the Denon occasionally it will flash a bit when it starts up. So far it never failed yet bit I guess the Denon's chip is more sensitive.

Hi Guys,

I have talked to the Denon people in Hong Kong, they don't have any answer. They will contact Denon Japan for help. In the mean time, I am getting a 12.5m (41ft) long cable, that's the shortest distance between my equipment rack (under the screen) and the projector. Wish me luck.

I will post the results as soon as I have the solution.

Cheers.

Fortissimo said:

It is clearly the length of the HDMI cable that matters. I am yet to determine the longest length of HDMI cable I could use with the 3930 (again, the brand of the cable is another variable one must consider).

I am using a monoPrice 24 AWG 25' HDMI cable (id no. 2109) between my 3930 and the Sony Pearl. The same cable is also used to connect the HD/DVR box tot he projector.This is a direct connection and I have had no problems at all.

monoPrice had a good price for these cables. Their quantity discount starts at 2 cables too.

Benchmark published.

Thanks, Kris. Has Denon said when they will ship you a 2930?

Benchmark published.

Well written review Kris. I'm looking forward to your review of a 2930 as I'm thinking of upgrading (downgrading?) my 3910 for a 2930. I'll be using DL3, so audio differences won't matter, and would like the 1080p of the newer model.

No word on the 2930 yet.

A question regarding DenonLink - while I like the convenience it offers, I am concerned about the loss of audio quality.

I love the sound of the 3930 - currently I am using the optical connection for DD & DTS, and the analog connections for DVD-A & SACD, plus the 2 CH analog for CD. I have purchased the AVR-4306 and wanted to use DenonLink, but after reading through some of these posts, I am confused.

Would I be better off leaving my cabling as it is (I already have the cable, and space is not an issue) or is the DenonLink just a passthrough? Bottom line - what's my best choice for sound, knowing I lsten to all the formats I listed? Any advice?

The only reason to use DenonLink is if you have postprocessing capabilites in your reciever that you wish to use, like some of the custom settings such as Arena, or Large Stadium, Club, etc. etc. Most purist scorn such things. The only other reason to use DenenLink is if you wish to use Audyssey in your receiver.

If none of the above holds true, then setting up your delays and bass management in the 3930 and using the analog outs will give the the truest, high quality sound.

I use DenonLink for all of it because I use Audyssey on my 4806CI,

Ruin

Thanks Ruin - I may set up both ways and do a side-by-side (as long as the player can handle it). The 4306 has Audyssey also, and I do want to give that a try.

Once my receiver arrives I'll run a test and report back.

Still just loving this player...it's so sweet... :D

Audyssey should still work regardless of what input you are using. You just have to have it on.

I've read through much of this thread, but was hoping for a basic summary of the differences between the 2930 and 3930. I am not an advanced user, but still appreciate good sound and video. Unit will be used with music CDs as well as DVDs, hooked up to a Sony SXRD 70" and Denon 4306.

I'd like to know if anyone has viewed the 2930CI and 3930CI together and made a comparison. Is the 3930CI $500 better? Can you see a difference? (very subjective questions, I know)

I will be using 30ft HDMI cable (with HDMI to DVI adapter) to a 720p projector and wonder if I'll see much difference in the two. Also, how does these two compare to a Denon 2800MkII via component progressive?

Thanks

Benchmark published.
Will there be a full product review as you did for the '5910 back in April 2005? In the meantime, or if not, would the recommendations in that one be applicable to the '3930?

Audyssey should still work regardless of what input you are using. You just have to have it on.
Not when using the analogue multi-channel connections. And, if you're talking about the stereo outputs on the'3930, doesn't that result in double DA conversion?

You are correct. The multichannel output to multichannel input in the Denon AVRs bypasses Audyssey. The two channel will use Audyssey but you do an AD conversion, apply everything, then do a DA conversion again. This totally defeats the purpose of using the superior DACs and superior audio section in the 3930. If you are going to do that you would be better off using the Dlink and just having one DA conversion in the AVR.

Alot of the decision about what to do lies with your opinion of the audio capabilities of your AVR. I feel like my 4806CI does a superb job and I am unlikely to hear much of a difference given the limitations of my speakers. I am also one who needs Audyssey correction, so for ease of use it just makes sense to me to go Dlink for everything.

Ruin

I have purchased the AVR-4306 and wanted to use DenonLink, but after reading through some of these posts, I am confused.


I think the 3930 has better DAC chips than the 4306. (BB 179* I think) Also the 3930 does AL24 "Advanced", 4306 is "Plus". To get "Advance" in the Denon receiver u have to go 5805, not even 4806.

I think the 3930 has better DAC chips than the 4306. (BB 179* I think) Also the 3930 does AL24 "Advanced", 4306 is "Plus". To get "Advance" in the Denon receiver u have to go 5805, not even 4806.

The DACs are better in the 3930. As far as the AL24, well yes you get Advanced AL24 from the 3930, but only in 2 channel, it uses AL24 plus for multichannel.

The question is, does the rest of your system have the resolution to hear the differences.

Ruin

Actually I never really understood what AL24 "Advanced" has over "Plus". I'm not using Denon receivers, just noted the "Advanced" is supposed to be higher than "Plus". And I noticed the DAC in 3930 is better than the DAC in the 4806. I'm using a Pio 59txi and I'm using simple coax for DVD/CD and multichannel in for SACD. The pio does room eq on multi-in so I'm happy. The DAC of the Pio is also better, at least on BB's site.

Can I hear the difference ? Actually I like the sound from iLink from a Pio player :) I guess the DenonLink should be similar but since I dun have a Denon receiver I cannot compare.

Benchmark published.

Worst than 3910. Does it reflect the video quality comparison (3930/3910) in terms of real watching?

cheers

juan

Benchmark published.

Thanks for the review. I was very interested to read it. I just got a 3930 this past weekend. It is very nice. I have two questions:

(1) I was surprised to see you rated it a 5 on responsiveness. I don't find it very fast compared to other players I've had in my system (Sony 9000ES and Oppo).

(2) At one time I remember reading that the Secrets DVD benchmark was going to be updated to contain more difficult tests to differentiate the high end players. Is this still the case?

Thanks,
Starflash

Benchmark published.

Kris: I just thought of another question I'd like to ask about your review of the 3930. It pertains to the 4:2:0 ICP test. The products that use the Faroudja 23xx (i.e. Denon 3910) seem to pass this test, but my understanding is that the reason is because the Faroudja only processes one field of chroma information instead of both fields. As far as I know, the Realta HQV processes both chroma fields. I'm not an expert, but is the 4:2:0 ICP problem really so bad that dropping every other chroma field is considered preferable? Thanks.

Having read the review, I'm a tad confused. The 3930 is essentially the same on video performance as the 5910 but falls short on some of the connectivity and audio categories; yet the score of the 3930 is significantly lower....and even lower than the 3910! Is this really a true representation of performance? In essence, is the 3910 considered a better performing player overall? Just trying to reconcile the number score of the 3930 with the textual comments.

I'd like to know if anyone has viewed the 2930CI and 3930CI together and made a comparison. Is the 3930CI $500 better? Can you see a difference? (very subjective questions, I know)


I demo'd both players. While I wasn't able to do actual A/B comparisions (having each at different times) I don't recall any significant differences for movie viewing - this was on an ISF'd 57" Sony CRT RPTV at 1080i HDMI sitting 10 feet back in dark environment. As a result, I just ended up buying the 2930 since it obviously costs less.

From what I understand, the Realta chipset in the 3930 will handle bad edits and mixed cadences better than the Reon chipset in the 2930. I'm not sure how much better --- maybe Kris can chime in the differences of the chipsets.

You are correct. The multichannel output to multichannel input in the Denon AVRs bypasses Audyssey. The two channel will use Audyssey but you do an AD conversion, apply everything, then do a DA conversion again. This totally defeats the purpose of using the superior DACs and superior audio section in the 3930. If you are going to do that you would be better off using the Dlink and just having one DA conversion in the AVR.
With the Denon AVR's you can elect not to apply Audyssey to two-channel Stereo/Direct playback. Therefore, wouldn't the duplicative AD-DA conversion you describe be avoided in that way when using the player's two-channel outputs and the receiver's "CD" two-channel inputs?
I wish we could get some clarity on this from someone at Denon.

S2silber,

When I talked with Denon last week, I asked them this very question. The 2nd Level support person said that if you use the Stereo, Direct, or Pure Direct Mode, and had the EQ set to OFF, that the signal was not redigitized.

The CSR said that the signal is kept Analog the whole time and Bass Management is applied.

If you apply EQ, or a listening mode such as Cinema or PLxII, then the signal converted to digital , then back to analog. In this instance, DL3 will provide a cleaner signal.

Regards,
Darrell

With the Denon AVR's you can elect not to apply Audyssey to two-channel Stereo/Direct playback. Therefore, wouldn't the duplicative AD-DA conversion you describe be avoided in that way when using the player's two-channel outputs and the receiver's "CD" two-channel inputs?
I wish we could get some clarity on this from someone at Denon.

So he is saying that the bass management in a Denon AVR is applied in the analog portion not the digital portion?

Ruin

With the Denon AVR's you can elect not to apply Audyssey to two-channel Stereo/Direct playback. Therefore, wouldn't the duplicative AD-DA conversion you describe be avoided in that way when using the player's two-channel outputs and the receiver's "CD" two-channel inputs?
I wish we could get some clarity on this from someone at Denon.


Yes, you can. But then you can always defeat Audyssey at any time just by setting EQ to off, or Manual. I was more answering what happens if you DON'T defeat Audyssey. My point being that if you ARE going to use it, or any other processing like DolbyIIx or DTS music, then you are wasting effort in using the analog connections because you WILL have an extra AD/DA converstion.

Ruin

Quick side question here... Is Denon in the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD camp?

Thanks

Officially, BlueRay, but they're sitting on the sidelines right now to see how things play out.

Ruin,

That sounded fishy to me too, so I asked the rep to confirm that BM was done in the Analog state. He said "yes". He could be wrong, but this is the answer I got from 2nd level suport.

Regards,
Darrell

So he is saying that the bass management in a Denon AVR is applied in the analog portion not the digital portion?

Ruin

If the player's Bass Enhancement feature is set to "On," then isn't this where the bass management is applied? Or, are you saying that it's also applied in the receiver when the receiver's two-channel settings are set to LFE & Main? :confused:

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet,
but Kris Deering review is up at Secret's
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=132#DenonDVD-3930CI%20(HDMI)
Kris mentions the capability of the 3930 to output 480i via HDMI but doesn't recommend it. I wonder if you had the 3930 connected to something like the Anthem D2 if he would recommend using 480i?

dc

If you are using analog outs of the DVD player, then you can set BM at the player. You can do this for the 5.1 and 2CH outs.

You can also set BM ON, at the Denon receivers if you are using the 2CH inputs. You can't when using the Ext In 5.1 inputs. Only set BM in one place when setting up the 2CH.

It's not like the reciever sees that the player has BM turned on and adjusts accordingly. You have to set it up in one or the other for each signal path yourself (Analog 5.1, Analog, 2CH, Digital)

The Bass enhancement is a subset of the BM config on the player. This setting sends signal below the specified crossover point to both the sub and speakers.

Personally, I set up BM on the player to handle Analog 5.1. This gets input into the Ext In on the reciever where there is no BM.

For 2CH, I apply no BM on the player and I let the Reciever do the BM. For DL3 I obviously do BM at the reciever.

Darrell

If the player's Bass Enhancement feature is set to "On," then isn't this where the bass management is applied? Or, are you saying that it's also applied in the receiver when the receiver's two-channel settings are set to LFE & Main? :confused:

Sorry to seem so dense, but let me make sure I've got this right:

As you know, the player's Audio menu, which is activated only when DenonLink is turned off, allows you to select either "Multi-channel" or "Two Channel" for bass management and the other audio features.

So, are you saying that -- within the player -- one can make different selections for the two formats that will be remembered by the player, e.g., Bass Enhancement "On" in Multi-channel and "Off" in Two-Channel? And, if that's the case, then if I've got bass enhancement "Off" in Two-Channel mode in the player, then I should go into the Denon AVR's Two-channel Direct/Stereo menu and set playback for "LFE & Main" with 80kHz crossover? Conversely, if the player's bass enhancement is set to "On" then I should set the receiver for just LFE?

Will there be a full product review as you did for the '5910 back in April 2005? In the meantime, or if not, would the recommendations in that one be applicable to the '3930?

No, I will not be doing a full review. I don't have the time unfortunately. And the comments in the 5910 review have no bearing on the 3930 review, they are different products.


Does it reflect the video quality comparison (3930/3910) in terms of real watching

The benchmark tests are an objective test set. The numbers are a guide, not an absolute. I don't think the Oppo player is the best video player out there, but it scored the best in our tests. Currently I hold the 5910 as the best player on the market for video.

(1) I was surprised to see you rated it a 5 on responsiveness. I don't find it very fast compared to other players I've had in my system (Sony 9000ES and Oppo).

I don't rate compared to other players directly, I felt the 3930 was quite responsive and earned the high rating.

(2) At one time I remember reading that the Secrets DVD benchmark was going to be updated to contain more difficult tests to differentiate the high end players. Is this still the case?

At some point. This year has been especially busy for me for lots of personal reasons. And in all honesty, standard definition DVD players are something that I'm losing interest in fast now that BD and HD DVD have arrived.

The products that use the Faroudja 23xx (i.e. Denon 3910) seem to pass this test, but my understanding is that the reason is because the Faroudja only processes one field of chroma information instead of both fields.

This is correct. Faroudja uses a chroma filter (as do some other products out there) to disguise the issue. This supposedly does not have a visible impact on the image but I find it softens chroma resolution up a bit. But it doesn't change the fact that it makes it so it passes the test. Essentially, this is just a test to let you know whether or not they do in fact use a chroma filter.

The 3930 is essentially the same on video performance as the 5910 but falls short on some of the connectivity and audio categories; yet the score of the 3930 is significantly lower....and even lower than the 3910

The video performance of the 3930 is not the same, the video processing performance is. I think the scaling is on par with the 5910, as is the de-interlacing. I think from an overall package standpoint, the 5910 is still the better player though. The 3930 also fails two of our CUE tests, which is why the scores are different.

I wonder if you had the 3930 connected to something like the Anthem D2 if he would recommend using 480i?

Actually that is exactly what I had the 3930 connected to. The Anthem D2 is what I use as my reference SSP. The Realta chip in the 3930 has better performance than the Gennum chip in the D2. The Gennum VXP is more in line with the Silicon Optix Reon chip. So yes, I would still recommend using the 3930 in your display's native resolution, or at least 480P.

The Realta chip in the 3930 has better performance than the Gennum chip in the D2. The Gennum VXP is more in line with the Silicon Optix Reon chip.

Kris,

When watching something like Region 1 film-based DVDs, what video improvements would one see with the Realta vs Reon/Gennum?

S2silber,

Sorry to seem so dense, but let me make sure I've got this right:

As you know, the player's Audio menu, which is activated only when DenonLink is turned off, allows you to select either "Multi-channel" or "Two Channel" for bass management and the other audio features.
Yes.


So, are you saying that -- within the player -- one can make different selections for the two formats that will be remembered by the player, e.g., Bass Enhancement "On" in Multi-channel and "Off" in Two-Channel?
You are on the right track. Bass Enhancement from what I understand, is the same as the LFE+Main setting in the reciever. I don't have a manual handy so I am not 100% sure, but I don't think the Bass enhancement option is used for 2CH. There is no sub connection from teh player in 2ch mode.


And, if that's the case, then if I've got bass enhancement "Off" in Two-Channel mode in the player, then I should go into the Denon AVR's Two-channel Direct/Stereo menu and set playback for "LFE & Main" with 80kHz crossover?
Exactly.


Conversely, if the player's bass enhancement is set to "On" then I should set the receiver for just LFE?
Again, I don't think this is applicable for 2CH. I don't think Bass enhancement ON can affect 2CH output from the player.


Darrell

Kris,

When watching something like Region 1 film-based DVDs, what video improvements would one see with the Realta vs Reon/Gennum?

Probably none. The difference is mainly with very poorly encoded discs. The Realta/Reon also have the noise reduction features that are a bit better than Gennums.

Gennum holds its lock on a cadence better than the Realta though.

The benchmark tests are an objective test set. The numbers are a guide, not an absolute. I don't think the Oppo player is the best video player out there, but it scored the best in our tests. Currently I hold the 5910 as the best player on the market for video.

The video performance of the 3930 is not the same, the video processing performance is. I think the scaling is on par with the 5910, as is the de-interlacing. I think from an overall package standpoint, the 5910 is still the better player though. The 3930 also fails two of our CUE tests, which is why the scores are different.


Thanks for the review. I guess the better question would be:
Is the 3930 the second best video player you have reviewed?

If chroma filters are built into or can be programmed into the Realta I hope Denon puts out a firmware upgrade to address this.

You are on the right track. Bass Enhancement from what I understand, is the same as the LFE+Main setting in the reciever. I don't have a manual handy so I am not 100% sure, but I don't think the Bass enhancement option is used for 2CH. There is no sub connection from teh player in 2ch mode.?


Darrell, thanks for all the patient feedback. I guess the only question I'm left with is whether there's any need, from the original standpoint of utilizing and optimizing the 3930's better DAC's, Advanced AL24 Processing, etc., in changing the player menu's audio setting back and forth between two-channel and multi-channel when I could just leave it on multi-channel for multi-channel material and use the separate stereo outputs for redbook CD's? Going into the Denon AVR's CD inputs, rather than the FL/FR EXT. Inputs doesn't make any difference does it? The only difference I can see is that, if I wanted, I could apply Audyssey which I know would result in redundant DA-AD conversion. Right?

S2silber,

Darrell, thanks for all the patient feedback.
No problem. It's not like the manual is going to help. We are stuck with other users to help out.

I guess the only question I'm left with is whether there's any need, from the original standpoint of utilizing and optimizing the 3930's better DAC's, Advanced AL24 Processing, etc., in changing the player menu's audio setting back and forth between two-channel and multi-channel when I could just leave it on multi-channel for multi-channel material and use the separate stereo outputs for redbook CD's?
I guess this comes down to how much difference you hear in your specific system/room. In theory, the difference is that the 2CH uses the Advanced AL24, and the 5.1 CH uses AL24 Plus. This means the upconversion of the 2CH signal should be a bit better. If your Prepro has really nice DACs, then the difference could be negligable. Only you can decide if the diferences in SQ are wortht eh hassle in switching.

Going into the Denon AVR's CD inputs, rather than the FL/FR EXT. Inputs doesn't make any difference does it? The only difference I can see is that, if I wanted, I could apply Audyssey which I know would result in redundant DA-AD conversion. Right?
Correct.

Darrell

Kris thanks for the review. After the news of the DVD-3930 came out I was wondering if I should sell my DVD-A1XV(DVD-5910) for the DVD-3930. Thankfully I did not and will continue to hold onto it.

As I am looking at purchasing the Sharp XV-Z20000 1080P DLP projector would you recommend I get the 1080p upgrade for the A1XV (5910)? Or should I just use the 480p/720p/1080i without the upgrade?

I already have the Toshiba HD-DVD player and will probably pick up the Pioneer Blu-Ray player when it is released. Just hope Denon announce at CES an new all in one Flagship that does it all :)

Benchmark published.

Thanks for the benchmark! :cool:

I wish someone would chime in on the direct one on one comparo between the 3910 and 3930.....I was all open minded about trying the 3930 and seeing if I could upgrade.

I went by my Soundadvice Store, and tried the 3930.....very impressive built, just like the 3910. My dealer had a 3910 that was being sold as a discontinued item on the floor, so i asked him to put it on, side by side to check it out........long story short, we obviously didn't have all the right equipment to go split screen/same source/etc, but we did hook them up to a Pioneer PDP-5070 plasma, and just switched back and forth on Hollowman Superbit.

Honestly, I could NOT tell the difference......and frankly (perhaps it is a mental thing, since I own the 3910 and am beyond happy with it), the 3910 seemes slightly better with jaggies and black levels. The 3930 had slightly richer colors, but you had to look hard. I didn't test the audio, as I'm sure both DACs are superb.

I'm hoping those who've had them in the same controlled environment can chime in, or perhaps Kris (if you are reading this) can share some personal thoughts on how the predecessor compares with the newcomer......I certainly couldn't tell the difference :confused:

But I know the quick "demo" was not an absolute test

Ssabripo,

The 3930 uses a different video chip. some people could see Marco Blocking with the 3910. The 3930 doesn't have macro blocking, but as you noted it does handle jaggies quite as well, but I couldn't see that in my comparisions. I didn't have the 3910 and the 3930 at the same time though.

In short, if you aren't having problems with Macro Blocking, there seems little reason to upgrade.

Regards,
Darrell

Hello. I am posting this question on this thread because you folks seem pretty knowledgeable. I would like to go for the max picture quality while viewing satellite TV (inluding high def), and SD DVD's.
Display is newly acquired JVC LCOS (HD-56FH97).
The 2930 has really grabbed my interest, however there is a smoking deal on a video processor at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=752491
They have 15 units left.

For less than the price of a 2930, I could get a 1080p processor that would theoretically improve my DVD viewing AND my TV viewing.

This is strictly for bedroom home theatre, so audio quality/functions are NOT a big factor.

I would love to hear any input from you guys regarding this purchase. and NO, I will not be using the 2930 to feed the VP, as some of you would :)
It is one or the other.

Thanks for any help/guidance.

Shane D

Kris thanks for the review. After the news of the DVD-3930 came out I was wondering if I should sell my DVD-A1XV(DVD-5910) for the DVD-3930. Thankfully I did not and will continue to hold onto it.

As I am looking at purchasing the Sharp XV-Z20000 1080P DLP projector would you recommend I get the 1080p upgrade for the A1XV (5910)? Or should I just use the 480p/720p/1080i without the upgrade?

I already have the Toshiba HD-DVD player and will probably pick up the Pioneer Blu-Ray player when it is released. Just hope Denon announce at CES an new all in one Flagship that does it all :)

Having a native 1080P output would be ideal but it is up to you whether you think it is worth the extra cost. Basically you are deciding whether or not you want the ABT chip to scale your video or have the Sharp do it. I am not sure what solution the Sharp is using so I have no suggestions there.

I'm hoping those who've had them in the same controlled environment can chime in, or perhaps Kris (if you are reading this) can share some personal thoughts on how the predecessor compares with the newcomer......I certainly couldn't tell the difference

I wouldn't imagine you could. The problem here is you are in a less than ideal place for comparison and you are dealing with a disc that probably doesn't have any flag issues. The 3930 will do about the same with film based DVDs as the 3910. It will do better with mixed cadences and disc isues though.

Hello,

Quote:
Actually that is exactly what I had the 3930 connected to. The Anthem D2 is what I use as my reference SSP. The Realta chip in the 3930 has better performance than the Gennum chip in the D2. The Gennum VXP is more in line with the Silicon Optix Reon chip. So yes, I would still recommend using the 3930 in your display's native resolution, or at least 480P.

I am looking for that last bit of video performance from my Marantz 12S4. If I get a 3930 player would it be a better picture in the 480p mode instead of my oppo 970 480i thru HDMI


Thanks in advance for some advice

rmlowz

Kris,

Not sure if you tested for this or not, but one thing I notice with the 2930 is when the image shifts from a bright scene to a totally dark scene, there is just a little bit of image retention for a brief second. Does the 3930 do this too? (I never tested for it when I demo'd the 3930).

One other question: will the Reon handle bad edits as well as Faroudja?

Having a native 1080P output would be ideal but it is up to you whether you think it is worth the extra cost. Basically you are deciding whether or not you want the ABT chip to scale your video or have the Sharp do it. I am not sure what solution the Sharp is using so I have no suggestions there.


Thanks Kris for the reply. If I deceide to let the Sharp do it which output should I use- 480p, 720p, or 1080i?

Hello,

Quote:
Actually that is exactly what I had the 3930 connected to. The Anthem D2 is what I use as my reference SSP. The Realta chip in the 3930 has better performance than the Gennum chip in the D2. The Gennum VXP is more in line with the Silicon Optix Reon chip. So yes, I would still recommend using the 3930 in your display's native resolution, or at least 480P.

I am looking for that last bit of video performance from my Marantz 12S4. If I get a 3930 player would it be a better picture in the 480p mode instead of my oppo 970 480i thru HDMI


Thanks in advance for some advice

rmlowz

If you are using the Marantz S4 as your display, set the output of the 3930 to 720P. If you are going through the D2, set the output to 720P as well and set the output colorspace to 4:4:4 YCbCr.

Thanks Kris for the reply. If I deceide to let the Sharp do it which output should I use- 480p, 720p, or 1080i?

480P should be fine.

Kris,

Not sure if you tested for this or not, but one thing I notice with the 2930 is when the image shifts from a bright scene to a totally dark scene, there is just a little bit of image retention for a brief second. Does the 3930 do this too? (I never tested for it when I demo'd the 3930).

One other question: will the Reon handle bad edits as well as Faroudja?

I didn't notice any image retention, but I wasn't looking for it though.

The Reon handles bad edits just as well as the Faroudja.

Quote:

If you are using the Marantz S4 as your display, set the output of the 3930 to 720P. If you are going through the D2, set the output to 720P as well and set the output colorspace to 4:4:4 YCbCr.

Thanks Kris for your advice

rmlowz

This is so weird. My dvd player is hooked up both HDMI and Component Video (YCRCB) connections. Therefore I have the ability to switch back and forth from HDMI to Component. I have the 50 inch Sony XBR1 SXRD which was purchased in early 2006 just before the XBR2 was released. This television can not accept a 1080p resolution! Instead it converts all resolutions up to 1080p.
When switching my new Denon DVD-3930ci dvd player to HDMI, the Televison will NOT accept the 1080p signal. However, when switching to Component video output, the television will accept the 1080p signal.
When switching DVD player to Component video output, I did verify that it was set to the 1080p output!

How is this possible? The only way possible is if the component video does not really put out 1080p as Denon advertized!

Or, the Sony accepts 1080p over component but not over HDMI.

Ruin

Not sure if you tested for this or not, but one thing I notice with the 2930 is when the image shifts from a bright scene to a totally dark scene, there is just a little bit of image retention for a brief second.

Could this be your display ? Is it CRT based ?

Could this be your display ? Is it CRT based ?

It's CRT.

The 3930 had slightly richer colors, but you had to look hard.

I just want to comment on this point. This is my own perspective and I'm prepared to see ppl rebuffing me.

I've been a user of Pio player and Denon player for years. Switching from each brand to another (47/59/79/1600/2910/3910/3930). One thing that I find distinctive abt this 2 brands is: the "style" of the color is very different. I won't say I can tell them apart just by looking at it, but if you play it simultaneously on 2 displays at the same time, I can tell which is Denon and which is Pio. Now this is very personal: to me, the Denon colors had *always* been very "dull". And the Pio's colors had *always* been very "bright" and "lively". Alright color calibration and all that. Nothing changes this. HOWEVER, some of my friends say the Denon's color is more "smooth" and prefer that. This is so individual the preference is extreme. You either like or hate each other. For film playback I find the difference in deinterlacing is completely negligible (alright at 480p).

Now I'm not sure whether all this while the Deono color "style" is because all this while it's using a Faroudja solution that filters the chroma channel (therefore "less rich"?) When I connect up the 3930, the 1st thing I (and my wife) noticed, is the color style is improved (to my taste), i.e. less dull now. So this is exactly what you say: 3930 is "richer". Now if you ask me (and my wife), we feel the color is still not as "punchy" as the Pio. It still has the typical "Denon smooth" look. Players like 1600 dun use Faroudja but still had the look, so I think Denon always had some post-processing on colors that give it this distinct smooth look. Probably the Faroudja further "magnifies" it.


It's CRT.

then I think it should be the display. This "retention" thing is common.

I just want to comment on this point. This is my own perspective and I'm prepared to see ppl rebuffing me.

I've been a user of Pio player and Denon player for years. Switching from each brand to another (47/59/79/1600/2910/3910/3930). One thing that I find distinctive abt this 2 brands is: the "style" of the color is very different. I won't say I can tell them apart just by looking at it, but if you play it simultaneously on 2 displays at the same time, I can tell which is Denon and which is Pio. Now this is very personal: to me, the Denon colors had *always* been very "dull". And the Pio's colors had *always* been very "bright" and "lively". Alright color calibration and all that. Nothing changes this. HOWEVER, some of my friends say the Denon's color is more "smooth" and prefer that. This is so individual the preference is extreme. You either like or hate each other. For film playback I find the difference in deinterlacing is completely negligible (alright at 480p).

Now I'm not sure whether all this while the Deono color "style" is because all this while it's using a Faroudja solution that filters the chroma channel (therefore "less rich"?) When I connect up the 3930, the 1st thing I (and my wife) noticed, is the color style is improved (to my taste), i.e. less dull now. So this is exactly what you say: 3930 is "richer". Now if you ask me (and my wife), we feel the color is still not as "punchy" as the Pio. It still has the typical "Denon smooth" look. Players like 1600 dun use Faroudja but still had the look, so I think Denon always had some post-processing on colors that give it this distinct smooth look. Probably the Faroudja further "magnifies" it.


then I think it should be the display. This "retention" thing is common.

There very well may be truth to what you're saying. I've never used the more recent Pioneer players (59Avi, etc.), however, I can say the 2930 produces better color rendition and color "punch" than any player I've used including the Sony 9100ES, Panasonic XP-30, Denon 2900, Toshiba HD-A1, and Oppo 970/971.

Regarding the retention, it may well just be a display thing. Someone else I know saw the retention on the 2930 with a plasma (but not really on an LCD). This is what brought it to my attention -- I probably would not have even noticed it otherwise.

This is so weird. My dvd player is hooked up both HDMI and Component Video (YCRCB) connections. Therefore I have the ability to switch back and forth from HDMI to Component. I have the 50 inch Sony XBR1 SXRD which was purchased in early 2006 just before the XBR2 was released. This television can not accept a 1080p resolution! Instead it converts all resolutions up to 1080p.
When switching my new Denon DVD-3930ci dvd player to HDMI, the Televison will NOT accept the 1080p signal. However, when switching to Component video output, the television will accept the 1080p signal.
When switching DVD player to Component video output, I did verify that it was set to the 1080p output!

How is this possible? The only way possible is if the component video does not really put out 1080p as Denon advertized!

The Denon only outputs either 480i/480p or 576i/576p via Component, nothing more. Your TV is just upscaling that to it's native resolution i.e 1080p..

The Denon only outputs either 480i/480p or 576i/576p via Component, nothing more. Your TV is just upscaling that to it's native resolution i.e 1080p..

You might be correct, however upon switching to component video, there is the option to set this 3930ci to either 480i/480p or 576i/576p or 1080i or 1080p. Also, unless I miss read, the Denon's website show the specifications as 1080p via component.

No Denon player has ever upcscaled via component outputs and the new ones are no exception. Don't be confused with "digital component video", aka YCbCr (vs RGB), in the documentation.

larry

Hello,

Quote:
Actually that is exactly what I had the 3930 connected to. The Anthem D2 is what I use as my reference SSP. The Realta chip in the 3930 has better performance than the Gennum chip in the D2. The Gennum VXP is more in line with the Silicon Optix Reon chip. So yes, I would still recommend using the 3930 in your display's native resolution, or at least 480P.

I am looking for that last bit of video performance from my Marantz 12S4. If I get a 3930 player would it be a better picture in the 480p mode instead of my oppo 970 480i thru HDMI


Thanks in advance for some advice

rmlowz
If you are using the Marantz S4 as your display, set the output of the 3930 to 720P. If you are going through the D2, set the output to 720P as well and set the output colorspace to 4:4:4 YCbCr.
Please keep in mind that both the D2 and the VP12-S4 use the VXP solution so you should not see any video performance differences.

Kris,

Thank you for the review of the 3930. As I wrote to you some time ago, I have been waiting for the results of your review before deciding whether to purchase the 3930. After having read the review, I started to hesitate. My current player (since 2,5 years) is the DVD-5900 (aka DVD-A11 in Europe), with a recently replaced laser unit. It's audio performance is excellent (at least to my ears), but I am not quite satisfied with what it accomplishes in video.

In the benchmark report on DVD-5900 in February 2004 your verdict was very favourable. It did not fail any part of the test and it only had a few "borderline" issues. Moreover, it didn't have any CUE problems. My question is whether you think that the 3930 would be so much better in the video department that the difference in PQ would justify loss of (roughly) $ 1.700 when selling the DVD-5900 second hand?

In your opinion the DVD-5910CI still is "the king", but in Europe the difference in price between 5910 and 3930 is $ 2.720, which is no small amount and almost outside my current budget. What is your advice?

Thanks in advance

Andy

Please keep in mind that both the D2 and the VP12-S4 use the VXP solution so you should not see any video performance differences.

I think Kris was referring to the fact that the VP12S4 didn't work well with hdmi YPbPr 4:2:2 signals.

cheers

juan

Quote:

If you are using the Marantz S4 as your display, set the output of the 3930 to 720P. If you are going through the D2, set the output to 720P as well and set the output colorspace to 4:4:4 YCbCr.

Thanks Kris for your advice

rmlowz

By the way, is the denon able to output 4:4:4 YCbCr? The manual only states YCbCr (4:2:2 or 4:4:4?) RGB or PC RES.

cheers

I've read through much of this thread, but was hoping for a basic summary of the differences between the 2930 and 3930. I am not an advanced user, but still appreciate good sound and video. Unit will be used with music CDs as well as DVDs, hooked up to a Sony SXRD 70" and Denon 4306.Not sure if you've missed it, or I saw it somewhere else, but I believe someone spent a good time listing the differences side-by-side a few post back.

I'd like to know if anyone has viewed the 2930CI and 3930CI together and made a comparison. Is the 3930CI $500 better? Can you see a difference? (very subjective questions, I know)

I will be using 30ft HDMI cable (with HDMI to DVI adapter) to a 720p projector and wonder if I'll see much difference in the two. Also, how does these two compare to a Denon 2800MkII via component progressive?

ThanksI saw this today, nothing new from what's said here.
http://www.desray2k.com/denon_dvdp/2930_3930_review.asp