I am interested in buying the 2930 for a second time. I heard excellent thingsThe first one I bought was a few months ago and it was in the bad batches of the first shipment to stores, and I returned it due to not reading my dvd r's and freezing issues. I recently bought the Panasonic Blu-ray player, I'm not happy with it, I think is was a big mistake in purchasing it and I'm not sure if I would keep it. Currently, I am selling my Sony DVP-NS3100ES due to the edge enchancement it produces and I am also selling my Xbox 360 (due to not having time to use it, and terrible dvd pq and no upconversion). I'm not sure what to do:
1. Return the Panasonic blu-ray player and wait to buy a 3rd generation unit at a reasonable price and use my Apple iMac as a dvd player since my Sony DVP-NS3100ES in boxed up and ready to ship.
2. Return the Panny, use iMac dvd player and buy the PlayStation 3 next year.
3. Return the Panny. Purchase the 2930. Wait till the HDDVD and Blu-ray wars have a winner.

If I do buy the 2930, do you guys recommend a extended warranty with it?

I'm not sure what to do:
1. Return the Panasonic blu-ray player and wait to buy a 3rd generation unit at a reasonable price and use my Apple iMac as a dvd player since my Sony DVP-NS3100ES in boxed up and ready to ship.
2. Return the Panny, use iMac dvd player and buy the PlayStation 3 next year.
3. Return the Panny. Purchase the 2930. Wait till the HDDVD and Blu-ray wars have a winner.
Sounds like you should go with option 3. If you're even considering an $800 DVD player, I highly doubt you'll be satisfied with the PQ from either an iMac or a PS3. You probably got a bad 2930 the first time around...it's worth at least a second try. It will do a great job with your SD-DVDs, and you'll enjoy it for many years to come as I think it will take quite a while for the HD DVD mess to sort itself out. As for myself, I won't even go near HD until there are vastly more titles available. It's just too early.

If I do buy the 2930, do you guys recommend a extended warranty with it?
As a personal policy, I never buy extended warranties. These are typically pure profit, which is why so many dealers push them so enthusiastically. The one-year warranty on your Denon DVD player should provide sufficient time for any manufacturing defects to show up. While it would be terrible for an $800 DVD player to die after the warranty expired, the way I look at it is that the thousands of dollars I've saved over the years by NOT buying extended warranties are already "banked" for such an event. Plus, it would be a great excuse to upgrade. ;)

Some credit cards automatically provide extended coverage for anything you purchase with them---check your card's program details to see if this applies to you.

In your opinion the DVD-5910CI still is "the king", but in Europe the difference in price between 5910 and 3930 is $ 2.720, which is no small amount and almost outside my current budget. What is your advice?Remember also that the 5910CI is very, very picky about the media it will read. I have several DVD-R and DVD+R discs that play perfectly on every player I've ever tried that is supposed to be burned media compatible, save for Denon xx10 DVD player and Toshiba HD-DVD players.

The same discs play without any issue at all in the Denon xx30 series players.

Kris,

Thank you for the review of the 3930. As I wrote to you some time ago, I have been waiting for the results of your review before deciding whether to purchase the 3930. After having read the review, I started to hesitate. My current player (since 2,5 years) is the DVD-5900 (aka DVD-A11 in Europe), with a recently replaced laser unit. It's audio performance is excellent (at least to my ears), but I am not quite satisfied with what it accomplishes in video.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I'm confused, just what are you trying to accomplish, improve PQ or audio?

I had to replace my Sony 9000ES once I obtained a 40" Samsung LCD because of mpeg artifacts and/or microblocking made some disks unwatchable. The 2930 worked fine but because of greatly improved sound quality and slightly better PQ I bought the 3930.

Now I am enjoying my small SACD collection, even bought some DVD-A disks, and they all sound great. However, my Audionet player is still better on redbook CD's.

With people charging out to buy new technology they are casting aside some wonderful gear and I have even seen a few 5910 and 5910CI for sale. Maybe that is your best option with cost constraints.

As a personal policy, I never buy extended warranties.


I agree with this with the exception of large screen (50"+) displays. I paid $600 for a 5-year extended warranty on my Sony RPTV. This covers bulb replacements (which I expect to do 2-3 times over this period) at $200/pop plus other repairs. Last week I had the service guy look at my set for a blue discoloration and was told I needed a new light engine (an $1800 repair).

So I am making out like a bandit on this waranty. From the reports I read on these sets the technology just is not proven stable and there is a big risk of a large ticket repair.

My Audionet player is still better on redbook CD's.



I'm not surprised....the Audionet is an impressive player.
Is the difference on redbook huge?

I'm going to listen to the 3930 today.
Though I don't want to spend the extra money over the 2930 I'm starting to think that if I can match my CD player on redbook then I can sell it to cover the cost difference.
My Arcam is not in the same league as the Audionet so I expect the gap to be smaller.

Having said that my Arcam is worth as much as the 3930 so, in theory, the Arcam should still be better.

I agree with this with the exception of large screen (50"+) displays.

Me too.

I don't believe in extended warranties but I bought one for my 50" TV and I'm glad I did because it looks like I need a light engine too after 18 months.

Video Freak said:" the way I look at it is that the thousands of dollars I've saved over the years by NOT buying extended warranties are already "banked" for such an event."

Good point, I agree with this (except on TVs).

Hi Andy,

I'm confused, just what are you trying to accomplish, improve PQ or audio?

Viclaw



Improve PQ. 2,5 years ago I payed the equivalent of $ 2.600 for the DVD-5900 and I find it a little bit sad that such advanced and expensive gear become obsolete after such a short time. It's a pity that nobody bothers to compare the 3930 to 5900, which used to be "top of the line" early in 2004. In the thread I have seen some comparisons to 3910, but none to 5900 (they use the same video circuitry). I am very satisfied with 5900's sonic performance, but the (slight) macro-blocking problems can sometimes be annoying and I have the impression that it's color rendition is not quite suitable for my Pioneer 506-XDE plasma (which, by the way, was "top of the line" 1 year ago; now there is the 507).

I also nourished great hopes with respect to Denon's implementation of the Realta chip. I have been following a thread on Calibre's Vantage HD processor for some time (it uses the Realta) and I even had the VHD for trial at home for a couple of days, but I returned it as it's firmware was buggy and it did not perform miracles with SD sources. Perhaps it is silly to think that the 3930 would. Anyway, neither this thread, nor Kris Deering's benchmark test have, at least up to now, helped me to decide whether a 3930 would be a rational investment.
On the other hand, are there any rational consumers among us?

Andy

I agree with this with the exception of large screen (50"+) displays. I paid $600 for a 5-year extended warranty on my Sony RPTV. This covers bulb replacements (which I expect to do 2-3 times over this period) at $200/pop plus other repairs. Last week I had the service guy look at my set for a blue discoloration and was told I needed a new light engine (an $1800 repair).

So I am making out like a bandit on this waranty. From the reports I read on these sets the technology just is not proven stable and there is a big risk of a large ticket repair.Not to put too fine a point on this--after all, it's your money and if an extended warranty helps you sleep better at night, by all means go for it--but I want to elaborate a bit on the economics behind warranty programs. The bottom line is that, unless the people pricing the warranty have made a huge mistake, the program will yield the warranty company a lot of profit. Let's take your case as an example: you had an $1800 problem pop up, which was covered by your extended warranty for which you paid $600. Seems like you "made out like a bandit" indeed, except when you stop to consider that the warranty company will still make money as long as this problem shows up in less than 1/3 of the units sold (600/1800 = a 33% failure rate). I strongly doubt the failure rate is anywhere near that high--if that were to be the case, then Sony would have a major product fiasco on its hands. If we were to assume that the real failure rate is 5% (a purely hypothetical example), then the actual cost of administering the warranty program would be $1,800*5% = $90/unit, which would mean they'd enjoy a profit margin of over 500%!! Rest assured that it is the warranty company that's making out like a bandit! Of course, my example oversimplifies things greatly, but I promise you that the people administering the warranty program know a lot more about expected failure rates and repair costs than you or I do, and you can be sure they've priced the warranty program to generate beaucoup profit.

It's a bit like Las Vegas; the odds always favor the house, but individual players can still win big. From a certain point of view, you got lucky this time.

I'm looking for divine guidance as well! I am upgrading from a 2800MkII and am torn between the 2930CI and the 3930CI. I haven't been able to audition either except I looked at a 2930 that had been playing all day and noticed that it was running quite warm.

I have a 720p projector that I will be sending a signal via HDMI ~30ft. I'd like to get a great DVD player that will stand up to daily use for movies and some Redbook cd's (if it sounds much better than my Marantz...) Anyway a few questions if anyone has the time...

1) Is there any improvement in film based movie PQ going from the 2930 to the 3930? Will I see improvement from my 2800MkII?

2) Is sound quality playing Redbook CD's better in the 3930 over the 2930?

3) How is the scaler in these? Is one better? I have a Yamaha lpx-500 projector that has a Faroudja DCDi scaler that converts my 2800MKii's 480p signal to native 792p; will I see an improvement sending a 720p via HDMI?

4) Does the 2930 run hot? I saw one in a showroom that had been on for 4 hours and it was quite warm. Is this a problem long term? Does the 3930 run hot too?

5) Is the build quality / durability of the 3930 compared to the 2930? Should it last me longer? I've got about 900 DVD's so I will want to use this player quite a bit and don't plan on diving into Blu Ray or HD-DVD (I may dabble, however...)

6) Am I missing anything?

David

It's a bit like Las Vegas; the odds always favor the house, but individual players can still win big. From a certain point of view, you got lucky this time.

That is true for all insurance, not just extended warranties. I'd bet that you do carry some insurance beyond what you are legally required to even though you are likely to lose money in the long run - it protects you against events that you can't manage individually.

In the case of RPTVs and the fact I was getting a bulb replacement policy for 5 years for $600 this choice made a lot of sense. Subsequent events made my decision appear very correct.

I am not the only one that feels this way about these sets. Consumer Reports, which generally recommends against extended warranties issued comments in a recent review of these sets that the repair history is such that an extended warranty may be worthwhile.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/tvs/hdtv-12-06/extended-warranties/1206_hdtv_warranty_1.htm

Like anything in life you need to constantly evaluate what you are doing. Sometimes there are exceptions to a commonly held viewpoint, in this case that all extended warranties are an extreme rip off. For current RPTV technologies that is not necessarily the case.

I am interested in buying the 2930 for a second time. I heard excellent thingsThe first one I bought was a few months ago and it was in the bad batches of the first shipment to stores, and I returned it due to not reading my dvd r's and freezing issues. I recently bought the Panasonic Blu-ray player, I'm not happy with it, I think is was a big mistake in purchasing it and I'm not sure if I would keep it. Currently, I am selling my Sony DVP-NS3100ES due to the edge enchancement it produces and I am also selling my Xbox 360 (due to not having time to use it, and terrible dvd pq and no upconversion). I'm not sure what to do:
1. Return the Panasonic blu-ray player and wait to buy a 3rd generation unit at a reasonable price and use my Apple iMac as a dvd player since my Sony DVP-NS3100ES in boxed up and ready to ship.
2. Return the Panny, use iMac dvd player and buy the PlayStation 3 next year.
3. Return the Panny. Purchase the 2930. Wait till the HDDVD and Blu-ray wars have a winner.

If I do buy the 2930, do you guys recommend a extended warranty with it?
I finally made decision. I ordered the DVD-2930 and I decided to return the Panasonic Blu-ray player back to the store on Monday, and wait till the HDDVD and Blu-ray war comes to a close with a winner.

I'm not surprised....the Audionet is an impressive player.
Is the difference on redbook huge?


For redbook, the differences are subtle, simply stated the music is more enjoyable with a better sound and staging. But I believe that the Denon is still breaking-in and may open-up more. IMO Denon's DVD-A sounds better than the Audionet's CD. It's too bad that DVD-A and SACD is becoming rare and hard to find unless you pay full list from a "Audiophile Dealer" (thank you iPod).

To David_AD: The 3930 also runs warm (not hot) but warm enough that I would provide forced air circulation in a closed equipment rack or closet. My wife is anxious about it and will not let me run it on repeat when we leave the house to break it in faster. Anyway, try one in your system PQ will be better with ether unit no more mpeg artifacts or MB. I believe the sound to be the strong suit for the 3930. Finally, nobody can predict how it will work in your specific system, but these are two of the best units out there.

On the other hand, are there any rational consumers among us?

I feel your pain.

Being almost 60 years old and playing with audio/video for over 40 years. I have learned to stop chasing equipment and enjoy the software (yes my wife had something to do with my epiphany). My advice is to you is: If it ain't broke - don't fix it.

Now I had to replace my DVD player because of major PQ issues with the new display. Otherwise I would be sitting and waiting for the HD wars to be over before I'd buy the next player or anything. I am on the sideline, with my money accruing interest until, HD sound receivers/processors, functional HDMI 1.3, etc., etc. etc. arrive. The good news is that it' is coming soon and it seems to me that you have a excellent system to enjoy in the meantime.

I am deciding between the 2930, 3930 and Onkyo DV SP-1000 for a universal player dedicated to audio only in my system. I am going to be connecting the player to a Denon 5805 and was wondering if anyone could tell me the differences in audio performance using an analog, optical/coaxal digital and firewire (Denon-link) connection? Which is the optimal connection for audio performance? If using a firewire connection, does it really matter which player is used as the transport or will there be sonic differences based on the quality of the player?

assuming you are using the audio outputs for dvd video (front left/right) -- i use a tube preamp in my setup, not a processor/receiver) does anyone know if the audio will be different between the 2 units only for movie playback? if not, i will opt for the 2930 as my main concern is getting the best audio playback (5.1) when watching movies only. any help is appreciated. thanks.

I finally made decision. I ordered the DVD-2930 and I decided to return the Panasonic Blu-ray player back to the store on Monday, and wait till the HDDVD and Blu-ray war comes to a close with a winner.

That's pretty much what I did.

Back in April, I bought the Toshiba HD-A1 and returned it due to issues at which point I decided to just wait the entire war out and eventually buy a top-notch, high-quality DVD player - Denon 2930CI (which clearly excels over the HD-A1 for SD DVD upscaling). I'm happy with the decision.

Is it possible that AL24 Processing can be transmitted with HDMI?

Is it possible that AL24 Processing can be transmitted with HDMI?
I've been wondering about that too. Put another way, at what stage is Advanced AL24 Processing applied? (Emphasis added as Advanced AL24 is a new feature on the '3930 that's distinguished from the AL24 Plus featured in Denon receivers). Is it simply a filter that's applied before DA conversion, which would suggest that it's applied whether the processing is done in the player when outputting the signal analogue, or is it applied before the signal goes out digitally, whether through HDMI, optical, coax or DenonLink?

I have the US version of the DVD-2930CI and am looking for a region-free hack for the player. I read in this thread that somebody had verified the hack on a European R2 player. Has anybody verified a hack on the US version DVD-2930CI?

Improve PQ. 2,5 years ago I payed the equivalent of $ 2.600 for the DVD-5900 and I find it a little bit sad that such advanced and expensive gear become obsolete after such a short time. It's a pity that nobody bothers to compare the 3930 to 5900, which used to be "top of the line" early in 2004. In the thread I have seen some comparisons to 3910, but none to 5900 (they use the same video circuitry). I am very satisfied with 5900's sonic performance, but the (slight) macro-blocking problems can sometimes be annoying and I have the impression that it's color rendition is not quite suitable for my Pioneer 506-XDE plasma (which, by the way, was "top of the line" 1 year ago; now there is the 507)...Can you not make comparisons between the 5900 & 5910, then read the comparisons between the 5910 vs 3930?
5900 vs 5910
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-5910vsDVD-5900.php

5910CI
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD5910CIp1.php

3930CI
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/denon-DVD-3930CI-DVD-playerp1.php

Edit: From what I've read, the 3910 inherits 5900 technology and is basically a 5900. The 3930 was designed to overcome shortcomings in the 3910 and it inherits 5910 technology, which it too is almost a 5910. So wouldn't you be better off with the 3930 over the 5900 if you don't want to pay for the 5910?

For those who have the 3930CI, how does the new Realta HQV scaling compare to the old Faroudja scaler? Besides the so called macro blocking of course :).

etween the 2930CI and the 3930CI. I haven't been able to audition either except I looked at a 2930 that had been playing all day and noticed that it was running quite warm.

I have a 720p projector that I will be sending a signal via HDMI ~30ft. I'd like to get a great DVD player that will stand up to daily use for movies and some Redbook cd's (if it sounds much better than my Marantz...) Anyway a few questions if anyone has the time...

1) Is there any improvement in film based movie PQ going from the 2930 to the 3930? Will I see improvement from my 2800MkII?

2) Is sound quality playing Redbook CD's better in the 3930 over the 2930?

3) How is the scaler in these? Is one better? I have a Yamaha lpx-500 projector that has a Faroudja DCDi scaler that converts my 2800MKii's 480p signal to native 792p; will I see an improvement sending a 720p via HDMI?

4) Does the 2930 run hot? I saw one in a showroom that had been on for 4 hours and it was quite warm. Is this a problem long term? Does the 3930 run hot too?

5) Is the build quality / durability of the 3930 compared to the 2930? Should it last me longer? I've got about 900 DVD's so I will want to use this player quite a bit and don't plan on diving into Blu Ray or HD-DVD (I may dabble, however...)

6) Am I missing anything?

David
Kris Deering,
Have you had a chance to look at a 2930 yet? How does the 3930ci compare to the 2800?

I'm grateful for all opinions! unfortunately, I'm going to be buying this sight-unseen so I'm trying to rely on the wisdom of others.

David

I'm looking to get a 2930 as well, and am eager to read a Secrets review.

Can anyone confirm/deny the 2930 can output component and HDMI at the same time?

do you mean to 2 different displays simultaneously?

do you mean to 2 different displays simultaneously?

Yes, that would be my intentions.

Kris Deering,
Have you had a chance to look at a 2930 yet? How does the 3930ci compare to the 2800?

I'm grateful for all opinions! unfortunately, I'm going to be buying this sight-unseen so I'm trying to rely on the wisdom of others.

David

As I've mentioned before, I have not received a 2930 for review. The request is in though.

I recently upgraded from the Denon 2910 which I was using with my rear projection 50 inch Sony SXRD XBR1 Television. I purchased the dvd player and tv at same time. I did not think the picture was great with that dvd player and in-fact the normal local televison stations seemed to come in much sharper by far and it's reception was thru a rabbit ear antenna! This clue told me that there was no problem with the TV. So I upgraded to the DVD-3930ci. I must say that after paying over double the money that my video is absolutly no more better! I dont see a crisp or clean or sharp picture. I also see what some of you would call "noise" or a slight "snowyness" or 'graineyness" thru out the entire picture. Once again my local televison channels far exceed the dvd's video quality. I hooked up the DVD player 2 ways, HDMI and Component (YCBCR) and tryed both ways. As always, I played around with the resolution output from 1080p all the way down the line. I see virtually no difference when making changes. I will say that the component hookup has a SLIGHTY sharper picture, but barely barely noticable.

I realize that the 3930ci is top of the line and I also realize that the chances of me getting two defective DVD players are slim to none. One would have to wonder about the size of my television or type (rear projection) if a sharp, clear and most important a CLEAN picture is possible with a DVD player...? What do you think?

One other note: My previous televison was a 32 inch tube type and I had a cheap $100 sony dvd player. The picture was RAZER SHARP.


ps.. The sound quality of both dvd players are excellent which I have hooked up via 5.1 analog outs.

I recently upgraded from the Denon 2910 which I was using with my rear projection 50 inch Sony SXRD XBR1 Television. I purchased the dvd player and tv at same time. I did not think the picture was great with that dvd player and in-fact the normal local televison stations seemed to come in much sharper by far and it's reception was thru a rabbit ear antenna! This clue told me that there was no problem with the TV. So I upgraded to the DVD-3930ci. I must say that after paying over double the money that my video is absolutly no more better! I dont see a crisp or clean or sharp picture. I also see what some of you would call "noise" or a slight "snowyness" or 'graineyness" thru out the entire picture. Once again my local televison channels far exceed the dvd's video quality. I hooked up the DVD player 2 ways, HDMI and Component (YCBCR) and tryed both ways. As always, I played around with the resolution output from 1080p all the way down the line. I see virtually no difference when making changes. I will say that the component hookup has a SLIGHTY sharper picture, but barely barely noticable.

I realize that the 3930ci is top of the line and I also realize that the chances of me getting two defective DVD players are slim to none. One would have to wonder about the size of my television or type (rear projection) if a sharp, clear and most important a CLEAN picture is possible with a DVD player...? What do you think?

One other note: My previous televison was a 32 inch tube type and I had a cheap $100 sony dvd player. The picture was RAZER SHARP.


ps.. The sound quality of both dvd players are excellent which I have hooked up via 5.1 analog outs.

Something is definitely wrong in your set-up. You need, at minimal, to use a reference calibration disc such as DVE or Avia to calibrate each player to your display. My guess is the brightness and contrast on your display is cranked too high for DVD.

Can anyone confirm/deny the 2930 can output component and HDMI at the same time?

I posted earlier in the thread that it does.

FYI, I don't know about the 2930, but the 3930 will only output 480i from the component outputs if HDMI is enabled; HDMI must be shut off for a progressive signal to be output via component.

If you're watching the component output you can see the output toggle between interlaced and progressive as the HDMI output is toggled on and off.

FYI, I don't know about the 2930, but the 3930 will only output 480i from the component outputs if HDMI is enabled; HDMI must be shut off for a progressive signal to be output via component.

Same with the 2930CI.

Not to put too fine a point on this--after all, it's your money and if an extended warranty helps you sleep better at night, by all means go for it--but I want to elaborate a bit on the economics behind warranty programs. The bottom line is that, unless the people pricing the warranty have made a huge mistake, the program will yield the warranty company a lot of profit. Let's take your case as an example: you had an $1800 problem pop up, which was covered by your extended warranty for which you paid $600. Seems like you "made out like a bandit" indeed, except when you stop to consider that the warranty company will still make money as long as this problem shows up in less than 1/3 of the units sold (600/1800 = a 33% failure rate). I strongly doubt the failure rate is anywhere near that high--if that were to be the case, then Sony would have a major product fiasco on its hands. If we were to assume that the real failure rate is 5% (a purely hypothetical example), then the actual cost of administering the warranty program would be $1,800*5% = $90/unit, which would mean they'd enjoy a profit margin of over 500%!! Rest assured that it is the warranty company that's making out like a bandit! Of course, my example oversimplifies things greatly, but I promise you that the people administering the warranty program know a lot more about expected failure rates and repair costs than you or I do, and you can be sure they've priced the warranty program to generate beaucoup profit.

It's a bit like Las Vegas; the odds always favor the house, but individual players can still win big. From a certain point of view, you got lucky this time.

Yes, but I have have homeowner's insurace, for example; they make a profit, and I'm unlikely to need it, but the amount of money involved is huge otherwise.

That's the idea of insurance, really, not to be a cheaper maintenance purchase and get your money back, but for protection against big loss.

Everyone who bought the tv extended warranty for protection against things like an $1800 repair 'won' whether they needed the repair or not, if the insurance wasn't gougingly overpriced. You can't expect to get back more than you paid for insurance; most can't get that, or it wouldn't be sold.

The thing is, for electronics, reportedly it IS often gougingly overpriced, and a bad deal.

I vaguely recall reading that big screen tv's may be an exception, though.

Edit: If I'd read ahead in the posts I'd have seen that ehlarson had identified the source of my 'vague recollection', the consumer reports article, and linked it.

Yes, but I have have homeowner's insurace, for example; they make a profit, and I'm unlikely to need it, but the amount of money involved is huge otherwise.

That's the idea of insurance, really, not to be a cheaper maintenance purchase and get your money back, but for protection against big loss.Exactly. The key words in your statement are "big loss." In economic terms, it should be always cheaper in the long run to self-insure, UNLESS you cannot afford the downside risk (as with homeowner's or auto liability insurance). In such cases, it is prudent to pay someone else a premium to bear the risk for you, in order to avoid financial devastation if bad things happen. I hardly think this applies to home electronics, however, as needing to repair or replace a DVD player or even a big-screen TV most probably will not result in financial ruin.

That said, I do concur that the recommendation in the Consumer Reports article regarding the special case of RPTVs is sensible, as long as the warranty program doesn't cost too much more than the anticipated bulb replacement(s).

Any word on the availability of the 3930CI? I ordered mine from a local Denon dealer on the 10th and they told me it would be in in 1.5 to 2 weeks. The Thanksgiving holiday has intervened, so hopefully I'll get it sometime this week. Just wondered if anyone had heard that there was a lack of supply recently.

FYI, I don't know about the 2930, but the 3930 will only output 480i from the component outputs if HDMI is enabled; HDMI must be shut off for a progressive signal to be output via component.

If you're watching the component output you can see the output toggle between interlaced and progressive as the HDMI output is toggled on and off.

Interesting, thanks for that info!

Definitely a supply problem in Vancouver.

I let the 2930 I had on hold go to another customer while I decided if I wanted the 3930 instead.
I've decided to stick with the 2930.
Now there are none available for all the Vancouver A&B Sound stores. Hope I get it before Christmas

Is it possible that AL24 Processing can be transmitted with HDMI?

Looking to the specs I say YES for AL24 plus, NO for AL24 advanced (only through analogue outputs).

Who knows more? :rolleyes:

Cheers. Rob

FYI, I don't know about the 2930, but the 3930 will only output 480i from the component outputs if HDMI is enabled; HDMI must be shut off for a progressive signal to be output via component.

If you're watching the component output you can see the output toggle between interlaced and progressive as the HDMI output is toggled on and off.

2930 is the same.

Is the 3930 $500 better than the 3910, now that it is on closeout?

Definitely a supply problem in Vancouver.

I let the 2930 I had on hold go to another customer while I decided if I wanted the 3930 instead.
I've decided to stick with the 2930.
Now there are none available for all the Vancouver A&B Sound stores. Hope I get it before Christmas

I'll give my local Denon folks a ring today and see if they have any updates. I'll post if I hear anything...

MR,

The big difference in these two players is that some people see MacroBlocking with the 3910. If you don't see MB with your display, then I think the 3910 is the way to go (if $500 means something to you).

I went with 3930, but only because I plan to swithc Displays in the next year and didn't want to be limited. Otherwise I would have kept the 3910 that I auditioned.

With the $500 saved, you could get bass traps, almost get a sub, 25 SACD, etc. The big question is the MB.

Darrell

Is the 3930 $500 better than the 3910, now that it is on closeout?

Like a few others here I am deciding between the Denon 2930CI and the 3930CI as a replacement for my Denon 2900 and a newly bought Helios H4000.

Had the 3930CI supported playback of DivX I would buy that as a replacement for both my current players, but since the 3930CI does NOT support DivX, and I buy that model, I have to keep my Helios H4000 which also plays European DVD movies with full conversion.

If I buy the 2930CI it at least can play DivX, but the question remains if region unlocked it can convert (play) European (PAL) DVD's.

Can anyone here tell their experience in playing DivX files on the 2930CI? Does it upconvert DivX to high resolution too and how is the quality then?

I traded my previous 3930 in for a new unit because of the problems I noticed and posted about earlier.

I have not had any similar problems with the new unit.

I now noticed something weird. I watched Underworld evolution. On the truck chase scene Ch 7. It is low lighting almost monochrome with fast action. On the bright highlighted areas there was a odd effect where there would be a flash of red and blue outline on the opposite sides of the bright area. Almost like it was shot for red/blue 3D glasses. I repeated it in slow forward and it was not visible. And much less visible when I replayed the scene at normal speed.

I am using a CRT RPTV which I don't think could possibly have the rainbow effect and it has never bothered me on DLPs.

Any idea what could be causing it? It was not visible on my DVD1600 and bedroom TV.

Which CRT RPTV? Is your convergence well-tweaked? When you say red and blue outline on a bright object/area, that was the first thing to come to my mind - but I'd probably have to see it. I might be thinking of something different.

Older Hitachi 51UWX. I set convergence carefully using the manual mode. But have not checked it in about 4 months. Maybe its off and the movie just emphasized it. Ill check.

Had the 3930CI supported playback of DivX I would buy that as a replacement for both my current players, but since the 3930CI does NOT support DivX, and I buy that model, I have to keep my Helios H4000 which also plays European DVD movies with full conversion.Where did you get this information? According to the 3930CI manual, it does play DivX disks. It appears to be no different from the 2930CI in that respect.

If I buy the 2930CI it at least can play DivX, but the question remains if region unlocked it can convert (play) European (PAL) DVD's.The US player is capable of outputting both NTSC and PAL video signals, so I'm certain it will read PAL disks.

The 2930 worked fine but because of greatly improved sound quality and slightly better PQ I bought the 3930.

Can you describe the difference in PQ please?
Is it worth the difference between prices?
I am just interested in PQ, because the player will be hooked up via coax to my audionet preamp...

[QUOTE=VideoFreek]Where did you get this information? According to the 3930CI manual, it does play DivX disks. It appears to be no different from the 2930CI in that respect.

Strange why Denon is not mentioning this fact on the product description http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3297.asp

Must be a typo because it mentions WMA9 twice.

The US player is capable of outputting both NTSC and PAL video signals, so I'm certain it will read PAL disks.

Can anyone say this for sure that either the Denon 2930CI or 3930CI will read and display (convert) a PAL DVD?

Not just read the disc but actually convert the PAL disc information to NTSC. My "old" Denon 2900 won't display a thing through my TV when I insert the PAL version of Alexander:Directors Cut, however my el cheapo Helios H4000 upconverting/converting player does.

MR,

The big difference in these two players is that some people see MacroBlocking with the 3910. If you don't see MB with your display, then I think the 3910 is the way to go (if $500 means something to you).

I went with 3930, but only because I plan to swithc Displays in the next year and didn't want to be limited. Otherwise I would have kept the 3910 that I auditioned.

With the $500 saved, you could get bass traps, almost get a sub, 25 SACD, etc. The big question is the MB.

Darrell

Thanks! All I wanted was a good reason to spend the extra $$. MB problems? Spend the $500!

MR,

POTENTIAL MB problems... I auditioned the 3910 for several days and never noticed any MB on my Mits 720p DLP set. but hey, if you really needed an excuse to get the newer model, I am happy to of helped.

Darrell

What is the consensus about using a (high-quality) 40-50 foot HDMI cable w/ this machine??? Will it work?

Review of the 3930CI here http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=132#DenonDVD-3930CI%20(HDMI)

VERY dissapointed about the continued Chroma bug failures, why the heck is Denon not using or implementing a chipset that solves this problem - Geez!!!

Also when is Denon going to include a zoom (vertical stretch) feature for older non-anamorphic DVD movies, lacking on both the 2930CI and the 3930CI? That can't cost much to add such a feature!!!

Can those of you who have the 2930 and a digital display do me a favor and check for image retention such as having a bright object (from a movie scene) on the screen for some time to when the picture goes black? I just want to know if this is my display or a player issue.

David, I have not had any image retention on my Plasma Screen.

Can anyone say this for sure that either the Denon 2930CI or 3930CI will read and display (convert) a PAL DVD?

Not just read the disc but actually convert the PAL disc information to NTSC. My "old" Denon 2900 won't display a thing through my TV when I insert the PAL version of Alexander:Directors Cut, however my el cheapo Helios H4000 upconverting/converting player does.In the Video Setup menu of your 2900, there is an option to set the video output to PAL, NTSC, or MULTI. The default is MULTI, and in this mode the player will output a PAL signal if a PAL disk is inserted in the player. If you change this setting to NTSC, the output signal should be fixed to NTSC regardless of what type of disk is inserted. Let me know if this helps. (By the way, the 2930CI and 3930CI have the same setting in their respective setup menus).

Can those of you who have the 2930 and a digital display do me a favor and check for image retention such as having a bright object (from a movie scene) on the screen for some time to when the picture goes black? I just want to know if this is my display or a player issue.

Sounds like you're viewing a CRT ...? If so - that's normal.

Sounds like you're viewing a CRT ...? If so - that's normal.

Yes, it's a CRT RPTV.

It's odd because it doesn't always doesn't produce image retention - it just depends on the scene I guess. Maybe it's always been there with other players too, but I'm just noticing it (and really looking for it now).

Yep - depends on the scene and the edit. Once you notice it - it sticks out like a sore thumb. I remember being bothered by it from my Rear Projection CRT days - but also notice it on my 36" tube TV upstairs.

Can you describe the difference in PQ please?
Is it worth the difference between prices?
I am just interested in PQ, because the player will be hooked up via coax to my audionet preamp...

The picture appears a little richer in colors with better depth and "cleaner" - but I don't want to say sharper. The PQ improvements are real but subtle on my LCD. Both players have tremendous capacity for adjustments with 5 memory settings I think I could have minimized some of the differences.

If cost is a factor and your major objective is PQ the 2930 will do just fine. In this instance you do have pay for that last 10% of PQ quality and gain a large improvement in sound quality (remember the next step, 5910, is 2X the cost of the 3930). Of course your display has a vote on PQ and I opted the additional money for that future 1080p display.

Yep - depends on the scene and the edit. Once you notice it - it sticks out like a sore thumb. I remember being bothered by it from my Rear Projection CRT days - but also notice it on my 36" tube TV upstairs.

I also see it on the LCD and CRT. It is really apparent on the LCD when the unit goes to black. For example, when I delete a program on the DVR it will go to black and the old image's bright areas are retained so vividly that I called the dealer thinking that the set was defective.

MR,

POTENTIAL MB problems... I auditioned the 3910 for several days and never noticed any MB on my Mits 720p DLP set. but hey, if you really needed an excuse to get the newer model, I am happy to of helped.

DarrellI believe MB only applies to plasma and from what I've been reading, it seems more probable than potential. Also MB was already known to be a problem with my pioneer display, so for me, the reason to choose the 3930 was too easy.

The picture appears a little richer in colors with better depth and "cleaner" - but I don't want to say sharper. The PQ improvements are real but subtle on my LCD. Both players have tremendous capacity for adjustments with 5 memory settings I think I could have minimized some of the differences.

Thanx for your statement.
Yesterday I compared the 2930 with my Pioneer 668.
Both players were hooked up via HDMI with my Sanyo Z4.
I used Star Wars 3, Sin City and The Incrediables.
Well, I saw a difference in picture, but I must confess that the difference was not as big as expected.
The picture with the 2930 was sharper, more colorful and rich in details.
Black was even deeper, so that I got more depth in picture.
These were only subtle differences, but the vast difference was the steady (clean) picture.

Are there any dvds out there that expect me to remark a huge difference in everything when I compare the 2 dvd-players?

Definitely a supply problem in Vancouver.

I let the 2930 I had on hold go to another customer while I decided if I wanted the 3930 instead.
I've decided to stick with the 2930.
Now there are none available for all the Vancouver A&B Sound stores. Hope I get it before Christmas

My local dealer only stocks the 1930 so they had to special order the 2930 for me. That was 8 weeks ago and I'm still waiting :( . I've got a new 47" Toshiba Regza Cinema Series Pro LCD and a Pioneer Elite VSX84TXSI reciever just waiting for the Denon to arrive. Dealer told me that Denon is having trouble keeping up with the demand. Don't know if I believe them or not. When I look up the word 'impatient' in the dictionary my picture is next to the definition :rolleyes:.

Thanx for your statement.
Yesterday I compared the 2930 with my Pioneer 668.
Both players were hooked up via HDMI with my Sanyo Z4.
I used Star Wars 3, Sin City and The Incrediables.
Well, I saw a difference in picture, but I must confess that the difference was not as big as expected.
The picture with the 2930 was sharper, more colorful and rich in details.
Black was even deeper, so that I got more depth in picture.
These were only subtle differences, but the vast difference was the steady (clean) picture.

Are there any dvds out there that expect me to remark a huge difference in everything when I compare the 2 dvd-players?

You are using some of the best authored disks. If all disks were made like these I would have kept my old Sony in service.

My test disk is Zathura - look at 5 min into chapter 15 when they are hiding in the laundry room, the wall and washing machines colors were clearly displayed as color bands or in blotches, dark shadows graduations in the hallway are displayed in large blocks. Both Denon players show the colors in a smooth tone transition growing darker into the shadow or indicating a curved surface on the washer. You will not think that this is a HD disk but it is very good and without distractions of poor images. Another poor disk is Breakfast at Tiffany's - Anniversary Edition.

To my understanding what I was seeing with the old Sony was characterized as mpeg artifacts and/or microblocking. BTW I saw these artifacts on flatpanel LCD with other players at showrooms (including the new HD players) except for the Denon 2930, 3930 and the Integra. The problems are not nearly as apparent on plasma and rear projection sets with a good new player. The funny part was that the salesmen were amazed when watching Zathura on 1080p Sonys.

Thanx for your statement.
Yesterday I compared the 2930 with my Pioneer 668.
Both players were hooked up via HDMI with my Sanyo Z4.
I used Star Wars 3, Sin City and The Incrediables.
Well, I saw a difference in picture, but I must confess that the difference was not as big as expected.
The picture with the 2930 was sharper, more colorful and rich in details.
Black was even deeper, so that I got more depth in picture.
These were only subtle differences, but the vast difference was the steady (clean) picture.

Are there any dvds out there that expect me to remark a huge difference in everything when I compare the 2 dvd-players?

Did you use Avia or DVE to calibrate each player?

Yes, it's a CRT RPTV.

It's odd because it doesn't always doesn't produce image retention - it just depends on the scene I guess. Maybe it's always been there with other players too, but I'm just noticing it (and really looking for it now).

I have a CRT (tube) display and I clearly notice it when watching LOST Tv Series. It is very clear.

If you are using the Marantz S4 as your display, set the output of the 3930 to 720P. If you are going through the D2, set the output to 720P as well and set the output colorspace to 4:4:4 YCbCr.

Kris,

I´m also using here in Europe my S4 with my 3930 and I can´t get 1.080p signal to work, out of sync.

Do you know the refresh rate of the 1.080p output in the 3930?

Thank you.
Nacho.

Anybody using a 40-50 foot HDMI cable w/ these machines?

Did you use Avia or DVE to calibrate each player?
No, I just calibrated the Sanyo Z4.


My test disk is Zathura - look at 5 min into chapter 15 when they are hiding in the laundry room, the wall and washing machines colors were clearly displayed as color bands or in blotches, dark shadows graduations in the hallway are displayed in large blocks. Both Denon players show the colors in a smooth tone transition growing darker into the shadow or indicating a curved surface on the washer. You will not think that this is a HD disk but it is very good and without distractions of poor images. Another poor disk is Breakfast at Tiffany's - Anniversary Edition.

Don´t know these movies, but maybe i will rent them in our videostore.
Can you give me a list of known movies with a bad PQ?

No, I just calibrated the Sanyo Z4.


That could very well be the problem. Every DVD player needs individual calibration to a particular display in order to optimize the image. In some cases this will be small and in other cases quite large.

I´m also using here in Europe my S4 with my 3930 and I can´t get 1.080p signal to work, out of sync.

The Z4 is native 720p, and only accepts upto 1080i input.

Novice question!!!

I just got the Denon 3930, my first high-end DVD player. I have it connnected to a Panasonic 50PX60U with a HDMI cable. The audio is run to a Luxman stereo preamp with RCA cables.

I read the review on Audioholics and got confused about the settings. What changes should I make to the settings?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

If you are using the full 5.;1 multichannel analog out you need to set the HDMI audio to 2 channel. This DVD player is designed so that you can not simultaneously have 5.1 digital out and 5.1 analog out.

You may want to do bass management and delay setup in the 3930 if you are using analog out.

Ruin

Novice question!!!

I just got the Denon 3930, my first high-end DVD player. I have it connnected to a Panasonic 50PX60U with a HDMI cable. The audio is run to a Luxman stereo preamp with RCA cables.

I read the review on Audioholics and got confused about the settings. What changes should I make to the settings?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I currently run my player thru a stereo preamp also. When using the HDMI input on the TV you will need to set the "Audio/Video Sync" to HDMI or the sound will be out of sync with the analog signal (sounds like an echo).

Anyway, just what setting are you confused about?

Don´t know these movies, but maybe i will rent them in our videostore.
Can you give me a list of known movies with a bad PQ?

I believe that bad movies are somewhat equipment dependant. My old Sony 9000ES player was just magic with the old 36" Wega CRT. Once the player was attached to the new Samsung LCD most disks were good to very good however, some (as noted) were garbage. I am not a PQ fanatic so I can't provide examples of other disks with minor flaws. Maybe others will provide their suggestions. I also remember a thread that listed microblocking problems but I couldn't find it (archived?).

"Ice Age" seems to cause some issues for me. Particularly chapter 9. There is a ton of pixelization in the night sky. This has been the case with any player I've used, so I'm guessing it's the disc. I first noticed it with my 2930, and naturally I blamed the player, because I had never seen it before. I took the 2930 out and tried my Sony 3100ES...wouldn't you know, it's still there. Connected my Panasonic DVD-F86, son of a gun...it was still happening. I concluded that it must be the disc. I haven't noticed it on any other movies. I'm guessing they compressed it too much.

"Superman Returns" is a very poor disc in terms of terrible artifacting and pixelation in background.

I believe that bad movies are somewhat equipment dependant. My old Sony 9000ES player was just magic with the old 36" Wega CRT. Once the player was attached to the new Samsung LCD most disks were good to very good however, some (as noted) were garbage. I am not a PQ fanatic so I can't provide examples of other disks with minor flaws. Maybe others will provide their suggestions. I also remember a thread that listed microblocking problems but I couldn't find it (archived?).

I still use my Sony 9000ES w/ a 36" Wega upstairs in my theater #2 - and yes! - Amazing picture. This is where I watch laserdiscs, VHS and DVD's that are not state-of-the-art (so to speak). The really good stuff and all HD sources I watch on my 106" projection system. (kinda best of both worlds.)

"Superman Returns" is a very poor disc in terms of terrible artifacting and pixelation in background.

That sucks, I just bought it this wee, and I'm planning on watching it tonight.

"Ice Age" seems to cause some issues for me. Particularly chapter 9. There is a ton of pixelization in the night sky. This has been the case with any player I've used, so I'm guessing it's the disc. I first noticed it with my 2930, and naturally I blamed the player, because I had never seen it before. I took the 2930 out and tried my Sony 3100ES...wouldn't you know, it's still there. Connected my Panasonic DVD-F86, son of a gun...it was still happening. I concluded that it must be the disc. I haven't noticed it on any other movies. I'm guessing they compressed it too much.

I found the same thing on our PAL version and went through the same thing as yourself, trying it in different players. There are also some very unnatural streaks in the blue sky right at the start. (after the pan through the ice). More noticable on larger screens.

There are some really sloppy disks coming out lately and conspiracy theorists may link it a need to increase the attraction on HD formats!

I would be really interested to know if the new Denons can clean up the aliasing and moire on Mission Impossible III, in particular the vatican scene with the steps in the background. It is at the start of a chapter on our disk but I dont know which one, as I only hired the disk.

There are some really sloppy disks coming out lately and conspiracy theorists may link it a need to increase the attraction on HD formats!



I really hope this isn't the case. But, in my opinion, there is no excuse for such a goof-up on a big release such as Superman Returns. Again, very disappointing DVD in terms of video. (On the other hand, the audio track is awesome!)

The people that purchase DVDs that provide the bulk of the $$$ for DVD sales have no idea what is and what is not good PQ and it will be quite a long time before they even consider going hi-def DVD. They still haven't gone HDTV yet. Or if they have, they watch sports and HD network shows. The conspiracy theory makes no sense whatsoever.

Sorry for the the OT. I guess I should delete my post. :)

larry

I currently run my player thru a stereo preamp also. When using the HDMI input on the TV you will need to set the "Audio/Video Sync" to HDMI or the sound will be out of sync with the analog signal (sounds like an echo).

Anyway, just what setting are you confused about?

HDMI RGB setting? Normal or enhanced

Audio Channel? Multi, 2ch vss off, 2ch vss1 on, 2ch vss2 on.

Digital Output? Normal or PCM

Downsampling? off or on

Source Direct? Off, 50kHz, 100kHz

Component Video Out?

[QUOTE=jimbill]HDMI RGB setting? Normal or enhanced In most cases, normal.

Audio Channel? Multi, 2ch vss off, 2ch vss1 on, 2ch vss2 on. If you're using the 5.1 multichannel analog output, set the HDMI audio to two-channel. Also do this if you're using DenonLink as your digital connection.

Digital Output? Normal or PCM -- Normal, as long as your receiver can process Dolby Digital and DTS.

Downsampling? off or on -- [COLOR=Indigo] Off [COLOR=Yellow]

Source Direct? Off, 50kHz, 100kHz -- This is an SACD setting that deactivates whatever personal bass management settings you may have made. You can set it to 50kHz, or just leave it off and your own bass management settings will remain in place without any noticeable loss of sound quality.

Component Video Out? -- Not sure which menu item you're referring to, but Auto and Progressive are the usual settings. [COLOR=SandyBrown]

Haven't read up on this, but is there a way to shut off the HDMI audio on the 2930 if it's not being used?

Haven't read up on this, but is there a way to shut off the HDMI audio on the 2930 if it's not being used?
Best you can do is to set it to two-channel. If you're using a Denon receiver, just make sure you set the receiver's audio menu to DenonLink for your DVD input. If you're sending your signal digitally, DenonLink is far better than the best quality coaxial or optical cable.

That sucks, I just bought it this wee, and I'm planning on watching it tonight.

Don't you hate that when you hear something negative about a film you are about to watch? Put's a bad taste in your mouth. I like to watch a disc without hearing anything about it.

[QUOTE=jimbill]HDMI RGB setting? Normal or enhanced In most cases, normal.

Audio Channel? Multi, 2ch vss off, 2ch vss1 on, 2ch vss2 on. If you're using the 5.1 multichannel analog output, set the HDMI audio to two-channel. Also do this if you're using DenonLink as your digital connection.

Digital Output? Normal or PCM -- Normal, as long as your receiver can process Dolby Digital and DTS.

Downsampling? off or on -- [COLOR=Indigo] Off [COLOR=Yellow]

Source Direct? Off, 50kHz, 100kHz -- This is an SACD setting that deactivates whatever personal bass management settings you may have made. You can set it to 50kHz, or just leave it off and your own bass management settings will remain in place without any noticeable loss of sound quality.

Component Video Out? -- Not sure which menu item you're referring to, but Auto and Progressive are the usual settings. [COLOR=SandyBrown]


Digital output? My preamp is from the early 90's, so it doesn't have any Dolby settings. Should I use PCM?

I just got the Denon 3930, my first high-end DVD player. I have it connnected to a Panasonic 50PX60U with a HDMI cable. The audio is run to a Luxman stereo preamp with RCA cables.
?

Jimbill,

If you connect your preamp to the Denon via the 3930's dedicated stereo rca outs (not the 5.1 outputs), you don't have to change anything. These outputs on the 3930 will mix any 5.1 source material and output it as 2.0 into your preamp.

Pete

I would be really interested to know if the new Denons can clean up the aliasing and moire on Mission Impossible III, in particular the vatican scene with the steps in the background. It is at the start of a chapter on our disk but I dont know which one, as I only hired the disk.

Nope. The 2930 does not. When I first saw this I tried adjusting it out by playing with the settings but to no avail.

There are some really sloppy disks coming out lately and conspiracy theorists may link it a need to increase the attraction on HD formats!

There's nothing on the Superman Returns dvd except the movie, and the transfer is terrible! I can't believe how bad it was...very disappointing.

Don't you hate that when you hear something negative about a film you are about to watch? Put's a bad taste in your mouth. I like to watch a disc without hearing anything about it.

I don't mind so much. I would have been equally irritated with it either way.

HDMI RGB setting? Normal or enhanced
Audio Channel? Multi, 2ch vss off, 2ch vss1 on, 2ch vss2 on.
Digital Output? Normal or PCM
Downsampling? off or on
Source Direct? Off, 50kHz, 100kHz
Component Video Out?

Recommendation - try them and see what you like or works best with your system. With new gear my procedure is to evaluate PQ one day and audio the next. There are too many variables given our short term memory for colors or sound. I keep a journal try to note what I see or hear with each change or combinations. Dial in the player to a basic setting that you like, then use DVE or Avia setup disk to adjust the TV. In my system (Samsung 40" LCD, 3930, stereo preamp, two speakers) I prefer the following, though I am still tweaking:

RGB Enhanced - when IRE is set to 7.5 and Normal with IRE at 0
Audio/Video Sync - HDMI
Audio Channel - VSS 1 - normal movies, gives me the best dialog sound VSS 2 for action movies, greater impact on special effects.
Digital Output - Normal, I do not use the digital connections from the player.
Downsampeling - Off
Source Direct - Off, This is just a high pass filter to limit high frequencies to the speakers when playing DVDs only.
Component Video Out - I do not use the component connection to the TV ( three cables).

Hope this helps :D

RGB Enhanced - when IRE is set to 7.5 and Normal with IRE at 0 Are you sure that it is not PC levels when enhanced? RGB and IRE black setting (0 vs 7.5) don't really have anything in common.

larry

(ponman - thanks for the answer!)

Are there any potential issues using the new denons with a projector that only has DVI (HDCP compliant) which is connected to the current DVD player with a DVI cable?

I presume just an hdmi to dvi adapter on the denon end is all that is required?

I also presume these adapters just contain various pin interconnections and there is no electronic components?

Also what happens about the two different video output modes of HDMI when it is actually going to a DVI connector at the other end, which one should it be set to?

Thanks,
Bill

Source Direct - Off, This is just a high pass filter to limit high frequencies to the speakers when playing DVDs only.


Hope this helps :D

Unless i misunderstood something, that is not right at all.

Source Direct is a setting which applies to SACD's only. You must leave it "off" to use speaker setup / bass management features. Otherwise, it is a low-pass filter (only frequencies BELOW those set, either 50kHz or 100kHz, are allowed to get through) for use when you have all full-range speakers and don't need to use BM or anything like that.

I also presume these adapters just contain various pin interconnections and there is no electronic components? Correct. HDMI data formats are just a superset of DVI, data is transmitted the exact same way. The only negative thing about the adapters (compareed to a HDMI->DVI cable) is that they add extra weight - HDMI connecters are known to be flimsy - and for long cable runs they may hinder "data flow" somewhat.

larry

The people that purchase DVDs that provide the bulk of the $$$ for DVD sales have no idea what is and what is not good PQ and it will be quite a long time before they even consider going hi-def DVD. They still haven't gone HDTV yet. Or if they have, they watch sports and HD network shows. The conspiracy theory makes no sense whatsoever.

Sorry for the the OT. I guess I should delete my post. :)

larry

Well if they haven't gone HDTV yet they soon will. I have been at BB, BJ's and Sams Club just this past weekend. The HDTV sets are the sets they are selling these days. These are not high end stores. I expect that the HDTV sets in homes will start to explode in 2007. Most people are getting their viewing needs met by cable and satellite which offers HD. It is just a matter of time before those folks start using those sets to their potential.

I do agree with your assessment of the conspiracy theory.

Hi,

I just brought home a 2930 and want to test it with some material that is going to highlight its strengths in terms of Video PQ. Can you please suggest materials (possibly with bookmarks?) thanks.

First impression :
The current DVD player I have is Pioneer DV-588A . What a difference between SACD/DVD-A playback on my 3805 powered system (over DenonLink) vs. the analog outs on Pioneer.

DVD quality wise I spent some time comparing 480i (upscaled on my TV Sony HD CRT) vs. 1080i from Denon. frankly didn't see much difference even in closeups. The DVD I used was "Munich"... That probably is the reason I am thinking, hence my question.

Hi,

I just brought home a 2930 and want to test it with some material that is going to highlight its strengths in terms of Video PQ. Can you please suggest materials (possibly with bookmarks?) thanks.

First impression :
The current DVD player I have is Pioneer DV-588A . What a difference between SACD/DVD-A playback on my 3805 powered system (over DenonLink) vs. the analog outs on Pioneer.

DVD quality wise I spent some time comparing 480i (upscaled on my TV Sony HD CRT) vs. 1080i from Denon. frankly didn't see much difference even in closeups. The DVD I used was "Munich"... That probably is the reason I am thinking, hence my question.

Regarding video, a couple of things:

1. Be sure to use Avia or DVE (or some standard) to fully calibrate the 2930. (If you really want to get accurate and you KNOW what you are doing, you will probably have to enter the service menu to adjust for individual color decoding for each player, disable to some EE settings etc.) At minimal, calibrate the basic user settings. Again, only enter the service menu if you know what you are doing and at your own risk.

2. There are numerous test patterns on Avia, DVE, and HQV benchmark test disc (search should bring these up), but with "real world" viewing, use a variety of material, i.e., good, average, and poor DVD transfers. It would also help to A/B compare with this material on the Denon against the Pioneer, but that would require SEPARATE and equal calibrations each time to make a true apples to apples comparison. Some things to look for with content include color rendition differences, the difference in image production (digital-like vs film-like with movies), shadow details, richness of blacks, sharpness, detail, noise/video artifacts, etc. The Denon should excel in all areas.

3. EDIT. I see you are not using the Pioneer deinterlacer and scaler, but again the Reon in the Denon should be better in every way.

I just brought home a 2930...

First impression :
The current DVD player I have is Pioneer DV-588A . What a difference between SACD/DVD-A playback on my 3805 powered system (over DenonLink) vs. the analog outs on Pioneer.
And, what was the difference?

I am not sure how I can put it into words. I will try :
One thing very immediate is the clarity. It not muffled as before. Instruments distinctly appear on different channels. Notes are easy to hear. The music also fills the room better. This has nothing to do with loudness. It is as if you are hearing the sonics of where the recording took place.

something like this. It is a much better experience.

Can 3930/2930 plays DVD-A, SACD and output PCM 5.1 via HDMI v1.1 (Oppo 981HD can BTW)?

I don't have good knowledge on ADC/DAC/interpolation etc.. so my question is when the player does DVD-A,SACD -> PCM (via HDMI 1.1), what kind of conversion or/and interpolation are involved? Will PCM 5.1 signal retain the orginal musical content that is stored in the medium?

I really would appriciate answering those questions.

Thank you.

Unless i misunderstood something, that is not right at all.

Source Direct is a setting which applies to SACD's only. You must leave it "off" to use speaker setup / bass management features. Otherwise, it is a low-pass filter (only frequencies BELOW those set, either 50kHz or 100kHz, are allowed to get through) for use when you have all full-range speakers and don't need to use BM or anything like that.

Just responding to the original question, Yes, as s2silber said, it effects SACD play back only.

No, 50k and 100k are the high frequencies everything we hear is typically defined as frequencies between 20khz and 20hz. Anyway, I was surprised that the 50k setting will take the some of the edge off of a hot recording.

To PooperScopper;

Sorry, to clarify I was referring to HDMI RGB Setting which can be set independently of IRE.

I will definitely do calibration. I have both AVIA and DVE.
After the calibration, still, I need to verify it with some good quality material... any suggestions? I can rent those DVDs even if I don't have them....

Does anybody on here send a 1080p signal to their displays? I like the idea that it does 1080p, like my TV. However it seems that nobody is using the capability??

Just curious what people, without processors, are using.

Thanks.

Shane D

I will definitely do calibration. I have both AVIA and DVE.
After the calibration, still, I need to verify it with some good quality material... any suggestions? I can rent those DVDs even if I don't have them....

Nothing in particular - just personal choices. Just be sure to use a variety of material (good and bad transfers) since, of course, this is likely what you'll encounter over the long haul. Unfortunately, there are plenty of bad transfers out there.

There's nothing on the Superman Returns dvd except the movie, and the transfer is terrible! I can't believe how bad it was...very disappointing.



I don't mind so much. I would have been equally irritated with it either way.



That Superman Returns DVD was so bad the other night, I went running to the internet to see if it was my setup or did others also see this horrid transfer.

I actually loved the movie and would buy it (the disc was a Netflix rental) but only in HD-DVD now.

Shane:

3930 to Sony Ruby over HDMI (70 ft run using Gefen extendIT) at 1080P. This exceeds what I thought was possible for SD DVD. In particular a sense of real image depth at times and better colors than with my previous DVD players.

Shane:

3930 to Sony Ruby over HDMI (70 ft run using Gefen extendIT) at 1080P. This exceeds what I thought was possible for SD DVD. In particular a sense of real image depth at times and better colors than with my previous DVD players.

70 foot run? Wow! So, 1080p is giving you the best picture? This makes sense to me, but everyone seems to run at 1080i and some at 720p. I wonder if it depends on the display? I just assumed that any display that could accept 1080p would would prefer it.

Shane D

Anyone have the 3930 mated to a Sony SXRD via HDMI? Have you tried Superman Returns?

I'd upgrade to the 3930 if its much better than the 3910.

I actually loved the movie and would buy it (the disc was a Netflix rental) but only in HD-DVD now.

I enjoyed it as well. I wonder if this is how they're going to force us to move into HD...I smell a conspiracy.

Some people in the HD forums have been complaining about the Superman Returns transfer, as well. One guy claimed the only difference between the SD and HD version was that the HD version was sharper --- too much noise still present. If this is true, maybe it was just a bad master used.

I'd upgrade to the 3930 if its much better than the 3910.
If you don't have MB with the 3910, I don't think you're going to see much improvement.

Anyone have the 3930 mated to a Sony SXRD via HDMI? Have you tried Superman Returns?

I'd upgrade to the 3930 if its much better than the 3910.

I've heard from a few people that the 2930 was definitely better than their 3910. The 3930 is at least equal to the 2930 or better especially with mixed cadences and bad edits. I demo'd the 3930 and it seemed about equal to the 2930 to my eyes/display though I didn't actually A/B it or run it through objective testing other than resolution and sharpness patterns. I just calibrated it to my display and subjectively watched a variety of DVDs on it. Again, after calibration, I think the Reon performs as well as the Realta for most of my watching needs.

Some people in the HD forums have been complaining about the Superman Returns transfer, as well. One guy claimed the only difference between the SD and HD version was that the HD version was sharper --- too much noise still present. If this is true, maybe it was just a bad master used.


That would stink. The SD version was noticeably bad even to my non-tech wife.

If the HD-DVD version also has video noise then they really need to go back to the drawing board with this one. Its too good a movie (and demo) to have such a bad transfer.

If you don't have MB with the 3910, I don't think you're going to see much improvement.

Thanks, MB is not an issue with my 3910 (just video noise on some poorly mastered DVDs).

My 2930 has finally arrived and I'm seeking input from you experts on what's the best method of connecting it into my recently upgraded system. Receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX84TXSI (HDMI switching capable) and a Toshiba Regza 47LZ196 LCD (1080p input capable). I'm a little concerned about the campatibility (handshake) issue of HDMI. I'm also a believer in the fewer connections the better. TV is not wall hung so visible cables aren't an issue. Nevertheless, as I see it my options are:

1. HDMI -> Receiver, HDMI from receiver -> TV
2. HDMI -> TV, Digital audio -> receiver
3. Componant -> TV, Digital audio -> receiver
4. Any other suggestions?


TIA for the help and input.

My 2930 has finally arrived and I'm seeking input from you experts on what's the best method of connecting it into my recently upgraded system. Receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX84TXSI (HDMI switching capable) and a Toshiba Regza 47LZ196 LCD (1080p input capable). I'm a little concerned about the campatibility (handshake) issue of HDMI. I'm also a believer in the fewer connections the better. TV is not wall hung so visible cables aren't an issue. Nevertheless, as I see it my options are:

1. HDMI -> Receiver, HDMI from receiver -> TV
2. HDMI -> TV, Digital audio -> receiver
3. Componant -> TV, Digital audio -> receiver
4. Any other suggestions?


TIA for the help and input.

HDMI -> TV, Analog audio -> receiver

Has anyone tried 3930's 5.1 analog output or PCM over HDMI with ARCAM receiver like 300 or 350. How does it sound?

I did a couple of searches but didn't see anything on a couple of issues I'm having with a 3930.

1) When viewing 4:3 material with the 3930 adding the black sidebars there is a loss in horizontal resolution when viewing test patterns. Going to the display adding the sidebars, the horizontal resolution is fine.

2) When listening to DVD-A and skipping chapters, the player occasionally hangs, requiring me to unplug the unit.

Anybody else with similar issues?


Equipment / interconnect note:
3930 to 3806 via Denonlink
3930 to 3806 to Pioneer 6071 plasma via HDMI

Is there support for DiVX subtitles (srt sub) on the 2930 ?

I have seen the question once before on this thread, but there's been no answer.
It's also not in the manual (german version at least)


Gert

I've got another question about DivX on this machine. Does it handle "HR" DivX? On the net there's a lot of material encoded at 960*540 (or close to this) resolution, to have better quality on HD sourced material. Lots of firstgen players couldn't handle this.

Thanks!

Everybody enjoying their new 3930? Nothing more to report?
It's nice that the layer change is once again completely invisible (same as my venerable 2900)

Anyway - I'm currently switching over to High Def DVD's - but was thinking of picking up a 3930 to use as my main player for my "standard" DVD collection (2,000+). Using it to upscale them to 1080p. I just don't care for the way the new players (HD-DVD / Blu-ray) handle standard DVD playback. I feel Denon is leagues ahead of them in every category. Especially speed, ergonomics, reliability, DVD-R playback, capability to play all region and PAL discs, and the ability to suppress unwanted subwoofer vibrations. As I plan to always keep my SD DVD's - this player should suffice as a great SD player for many many years to come. And hopefully Denon will jump onto the HD bandwagon when the time is right. Any thoughts?

Can't argue with your logic, since that was mine as well. A DVD with a good transfer upscaled to 1080p looks quite nice, and I can live with the minor PQ issues that are inevitable. SOme people seem to want it to look just like HD, but hey if that was possible we wouldn't need HD would we? :) I figure I am going to still be buying and watching SD stuff for a couple more years until the format war is over, and I probably wont replace my entire SD librarty with HD anyway, I will just start with new stuff (with a couple of exceptions.) I am hoping my 3930 lasts 10 years or more. :)

Ruin

What Ruin said and I still am amazed by the sound quality for all formats. With about 50 hours of playing the unit is still improving in both picture and sound quality.

I'm enjoying the performance so much that I am still buying SD disks contrary to my steadfast promise to quit. But, that's not wrong - is it? :o

Does the 2930 do pure DSD on SACD?
IIRC the 2910 did, unless you used BM.

I feel Denon is leagues ahead of them in every category. Especially speed, ergonomics, reliability, DVD-R playback ...

hmmm IMHO compared with some other dvdp, the 3930 is one league behind in these categories. menu speed is considerably slower than a pio; it can't remember last disc play positions... it can't read some of my *friendly copied* discs... what else... when HDMI is set to output something, u cannot get a prog output in component, even when the HDMI is not active. what else... I dun understand why it takes 20 seconds to open the tray from standby. the pio/sony/marantz is alsmost instantaneous... oh one more, when u press menu in the middle of a movie, and select something , and select play again, it starts from beginning. Almost every other player I used before (pio/panny/sony) resume at where it stops....

I'm not saying the player is bad. The PQ is gd. I just feel the ergonomics part is one step behind.

Thanks! for everybody's thoughts.

c722 - good points. However - re: Denon ergonomics. I'm comparing them to HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A1, A2) and Blu-Ray (Sony BDP-S1) players. The remotes on both of these Hi-def players are terrible. Neither machine can display on-screen "time remaining." Neither machine has resume play (I was hoping the 3930 did - guess not). The Denon (2900) has lightning-fast chapter skip w/ indication and no audio glitching), and the FF and REW are much smoother and easy to use on my 2900. I also prefer the menu look and style of the Denon.


And most important (to me) is how the new Hi-def players handle a standard DVD layer change. I'll tell you how. No 8mb buffer ...so TERRIBLE. If you are use to the 2900's perfect layer changes (3930 too) - you would never want to watch a standard DVD on any of the new Hi-def players I've tested.


I just feel the new Hi-def players are cheaply built, especially the new A2, which weighs all of about 3 pounds vs. the 3930 at 25 pounds! The Denon just reeks of quality - and after viewing 100's of DVD's on my 2900 - it has never glitched on me once! (knock on wood) The HD-A1 was a nightmare in this regard. The new Sony BDP-S1 looks to be better built - but is soooo sluggish in doing just about everything (compared to my 2900) and the scanning (FF, REW) is terrible. Very course and jumpy. (Just my 2 cents)

hmmm IMHO compared with some other dvdp, the 3930 is one league behind in these categories. menu speed is considerably slower than a pio; it can't remember last disc play positions... it can't read some of my *friendly copied* discs... what else... when HDMI is set to output something, u cannot get a prog output in component, even when the HDMI is not active. what else... I dun understand why it takes 20 seconds to open the tray from standby. the pio/sony/marantz is alsmost instantaneous... oh one more, when u press menu in the middle of a movie, and select something , and select play again, it starts from beginning. Almost every other player I used before (pio/panny/sony) resume at where it stops....

I'm not saying the player is bad. The PQ is gd. I just feel the ergonomics part is one step behind.From all the talk about ergonomic issues and quirks it seems that Denon went with a new platform/firmware base. I guess they had to in order to support the new chips. It's probably PowerPC or ARM based running Linux like many other stbs and players. :) I would even bet good money that the SO chips use MIPS cores. Just a WAG. :)

larry

I wouldn't mind a firmware update for my 2930 for responsiveness and speed using menu selections on DVDs, etc.

And most important (to me) is how the new Hi-def players handle a standard DVD layer change. I'll tell you how. No 8mb buffer ...so TERRIBLE. If you are use to the 2900's perfect layer changes (3930 too) - you would never want to watch a standard DVD on any of the new Hi-def players I've tested.

I find it unbelievable the things designers leave out of these products. It cant be the cost, surely. How much would an 8mb buffer cost in production or how much to have a coax output in addition to the optical on those tosh A2 players or to have implemented the auto squeeze mode that was absent from the Denon 3910.

These designers must never have actually used a dvd player regularly to not realise the importance of some of these omitted features that stop a player from being completely satisfying. They spend a fortune of R&D and production and blow it for saving a few dollars.

re: Denon ergonomics. I'm comparing them to HD-DVD (Toshiba HD-A1, A2) and Blu-Ray (Sony BDP-S1) players.

hi john , yea I shared your feelings abt those hidef players. I have the XA1. The responsiveness is worse than the 1st gen dvd player I had 9ys ago (both 1st gen). For example why does it take 60 seconds to open a tray from standby ? Most PCs open dvd tray immediately as long as it's powered, u dun even need a OS. And why you cannot close/open the motorised door when it's loading a disk ? That door is completely mechanical and has nothing to do with the disc.

btw the Denon 2900 is a great player. I'm afraid the 3930 is more than one step backwards on ergonomics. To be honest I'm not surprised if they do another 3940 next year just to improve on this.

oh yea Pooper I think u r probably right abt new platform. It does look like the 3930 is loading a full OS before doing anything, pretty much like the XA1. Realta chip is known to be complex. But I thought Reon is supposed to be a simple chip based solution, so the 2930 should therefore be simpler (and faster) ?

I find it unbelievable the things designers leave out of these products. It cant be the cost, surely. How much would an 8mb buffer cost in production or how much to have a coax output in addition to the optical on those tosh A2 players or to have implemented the auto squeeze mode that was absent from the Denon 3910.


These things were clearly rushed to market. It is always much better to wait a bit before you buy into a new technology. Of course there are always people who have to have the latest.

I remember my first CD player. It was a 1st gen product, and it was amazing how much better the player I bought a year or two later was.

These things were clearly rushed to market. It is always much better to wait a bit before you buy into a new technology. Of course there are always people who have to have the latest.

I remember my first CD player. It was a 1st gen product, and it was amazing how much better the player I bought a year or two later was.I'd have to disagree in this case. Waiting won't get you anywhere, because it's not new technology; SD DVD is at the end of it's lifetime. The Realta is nothing new since it's used on the 5910. The 3930 is the slowest player I've used, granted it's faster than most in it's class and its speed improved from the previous generation. Nonetheless, open, skip forward and back is slooooow...

Edit: forget it. I assume you were referring to HDDVD and Blu-ray, which I'm not sure why we're discussing about it here.

But I thought Reon is supposed to be a simple chip based solution, so the 2930 should therefore be simpler (and faster) ?

Having used both players, I can say the 2930 is not faster...and maybe even slower.

Hi Folks, Just got myself a 3930ci, it replaced by aging IscanHD + SDI player (Denon 2200). I'm using it with a Sony Ruby, anyone here also using a 3930 or 2930 with a Ruby? I have some questions.

1) For some reason, I cannot get the Ruby's HDMI port to detect any signal from the 3930, seems like only the Ruby's DVI port is usable with this player. I've tried changing the HDMI auto and HDMI RGB (normal/enchanced) settings, but no difference. Previously I connected my IscanHD to the Ruby's HDMI port fine. I also have an Oppo 971HD which works fine with the Ruby's HDMI port. Hmm seems like I only have problems connecting HDMI to HDMI....

2) My Ruby was originally calibrated to the IscanHD and SDI player. With the 3930, when I set HDMI RGB to enchanced and 0 IRE in the picture adjust settings, the blacks looked strange, the picture looks very dark. Checking with AVIA's grey bars, the last two bars (black) looked the same. I've had to adjust the black level in the player before it looked decent. If I set 7.5 IRE on the player, the image is much brighter but the colours look washed out. Is this expected?

I live in Singapore where we don't really have ISF trained people to do calibration, so I'm trying to do this myself...any help appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan
I did some testing with the HQV test disc to see if it made more sense to playback SD DVD's
with my Toshiba HD DVD player outputting 1080i/HDMI or Sony DVD player at 480i/Component.

As Kevin Anderson previously found, using 480i is a good way to go because of the Gennum
VXP scaling of the HD81. The Toshiba failed several scaling tests that the Gennum sailed through.

Unfortunately, after having watched mainly HD DVD's on the HD81 or HD via satellite, SD
DVD's just don't look that great. Besides the softness, things like artificial detail edges
found on many SD DVD's really ruin the image for me and the HD81 shows every compression artifact. It is easy to get spoiled with HD sources with this projector.


Jeff Regan




What about the Denon DVD-player 3930 ? Same results with SD DVD's or much better as H81 Gennum?

Anybody?

Jos

__________________
Buy never what you can use but what you cannot miss!
The extra is still too expensive for the price!

i have strange problem with my denon 3930ci and was wondering if anyone has had something similar.

i connect hdmi directly to my samsung hlr5668w for video. i run a optical cable out to my outlaw 950 pre-amp for audio. essentially, i want to route video to the tv and audio to the pre-amp.

unfortunately, the hdmi cable also routes audio to the tv so my tv speakers output sound. now i can internal mute the thing but it's a hassle to do that every time i watch a dvd (the regular mute button leaves a mute icon on the screen which is just as annoying).

so, i'm trying to shut off the digital audio feed out of the hdmi output from the denon. the denon doesn't seem to have a natural way of doing this.

so i used the pure direct mode (mode 1) and set digital output to off. this seems to shut off the audio from all the digital outputs incl the hdmi & optical. however, and this is where it gets weird, if i hit the setup button (on and off), then the optical feed seems to work (hdmi audio stays off tho). this seems to accomplish what i want, however it is an awkward fix as it seems like the pure direct mode w/digital audio off should shut all digital outputs, in which case there is a software bug i imagine since hitting the setup button twice seems to get around this.

anyway, bottom line is, does anyone know how i can shut off the hdmi audio output w/out shutting down the optical output? i know i can just ude analog out but i wanted to see if i could route digital video one way (hdmi) and digital audio (optical) another way. i apologize if this has been answered before...

I'm very curious as to how the 2930CI (also 3930CI) stand up to the latest Pioneer Elite universal players (DV-79AVi, DV-45A) in terms of audio quality- ie. for CD, SACD, DVD-A? Is one brand, or model, significantly better sounding than the other?

I'm very curious as to how the 2930CI (also 3930CI) stand up to the latest Pioneer Elite universal players (DV-79AVi, DV-45A) in terms of audio quality- ie. for CD, SACD, DVD-A? Is one brand, or model, significantly better sounding than the other?
Well... I had the 79avi. I now have the 2930. I think the Denon unit is superior in PQ and SQ.

The 79 is a good unit and would probably work very well for most people. I had some issues with mine.

A lot may depend on your other components. Would your speakers be able to actually reproduce any difference between the two units? Do you have a Pioneer or a Denon receiver? How good are your room accoustics? The differences are subtle and maybe to some nonexistent. I found there to be a difference.

Any issues I have with the Denon are few and minor. The sound is excellent and the picture is fantastic!

shane

I think the Denon unit is superior in PQ and SQ.
thanks for your input!

Would your speakers be able to actually reproduce any difference between the two units? Do you have a Pioneer or a Denon receiver? How good are your room accoustics? I'm using Energy RC-Series speakers (RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-R rears); a Yamaha RX-V2700 (as pre-pro) with an NAD C272 amp (150W X 2), the NAD handles my fronts while the Yamaha amps handle center and rears.These speakers are very good and, I believe, will reveal these subtle differences (in DAC's). My room is not the best, it's all wood floors with aluminum mini blinds (covering windows) directly opposite of L-C-R, a little "noisey", but fairly "clean".


The differences are subtle and maybe to some nonexistent. I found there to be a difference.very interesting. Sounds like either model (Denon 2930 or Elite 79AVi) could work fine.

Is there a significant difference from the 2930 and the 3930?

I finally got the 3930. I don't have a lot of time with it yet but so far I'm happy. First thing I did I did was set black, brightness, color and tint (using DVE). Sharpness settings on the TV doesn't seem to have much effect. I left the player settings at default and tweaked my Sony SXRD. Right now I'm using HDMI at 720p. I tried (briefly) 480p and 1080i but 720p seems to work out fine. I still want to do more playing with 480p/720p/1080i to determine what is best and I also want to try out the component signals as well. I did turn on MPEG NR in the 3930 but that is the only picture setting I've changed from the default state. I want to experiment with the normal/enhanced setting as well so I've still got a lot more tweaking to do. One thing is clear....the 3930 has the best deinterlacer I've ever had (which is why I bought this model). The player is a bit slow to respond but (IMO) it's not unacceptable. I wish it were easier (faster) to turn subtitles on and off since I sometimes turn them on the catch dialog that's hard to make out. So far I'm liking what I see and now I can start thinking about getting my set ISF'd.

I don't like using the DNR or especially the MPEG setting. They mask out noise, but at the expense of detail...on the 2930 anyway....I never tested it with the 3930, but I'm sure it's same.

I finally got the 3930. I don't have a lot of time with it yet but so far I'm happy. First thing I did I did was set black, brightness, color and tint (using DVE). Sharpness settings on the TV doesn't seem to have much effect. I left the player settings at default and tweaked my Sony SXRD. Right now I'm using HDMI at 720p. I tried (briefly) 480p and 1080i but 720p seems to work out fine. I still want to do more playing with 480p/720p/1080i to determine what is best and I also want to try out the component signals as well. I did turn on MPEG NR in the 3930 but that is the only picture setting I've changed from the default state. I want to experiment with the normal/enhanced setting as well so I've still got a lot more tweaking to do. One thing is clear....the 3930 has the best deinterlacer I've ever had (which is why I bought this model). The player is a bit slow to respond but (IMO) it's not unacceptable. I wish it were easier (faster) to turn subtitles on and off since I sometimes turn them on the catch dialog that's hard to make out. So far I'm liking what I see and now I can start thinking about getting my set ISF'd.

Great! :) I think the 3930 is one of the most gorgeous (and heavyweight!) machines on the market right now. However, I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth it to up-grade my 2900 to the 3930. One of the only things holding me back is the slowness issue as well as ergonomics. Both are acceptable on my 2900. I really need to see if the 3930 compares - or is a step back in this regard.

Additionally - the projector (JVC RS-1) I'll be buying next month has a top quality scaler (Gennum) - so I may have no need to use the Denon's internal Realta scaler. Which seems like a terrible waste. Any thoughts???

I have a 2900 and decided to upgrade to a 3930, mostly because I wanted the better sound. Ehat I have found is that the picture smoothness is a definite step up on the 3930, in addition to the improved audio.

The menu speed is definitely slower - enough to be a bit annoying at times since I am used to the 2900. I also find the fast forward to be inferiror - the 3930 doesn't interpolate as smoothly.

I am going to hang on to the 3930 though - I have gotten to like the PQ + sound improvements.

Great! :) I think the 3930 is one of the most gorgeous (and heavyweight!) machines on the market right now. However, I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth it to up-grade my 2900 to the 3930. One of the only things holding me back is the slowness issue as well as ergonomics. Both are acceptable on my 2900. I really need to see if the 3930 compares - or is a step back in this regard.

Additionally - the projector (JVC RS-1) I'll be buying next month has a top quality scaler (Gennum) - so I may have no need to use the Denon's internal Realta scaler. Which seems like a terrible waste. Any thoughts??? It's up to you, but for video getting the $150 Oppo 970HD for 480i via HDMI may be the way to go with the new PJ. If you want to spend the extra $$$ for audio and video versatility, then it may be worth it. It's only money. :)

larry

Great! :) I think the 3930 is one of the most gorgeous (and heavyweight!) machines on the market right now. However, I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth it to up-grade my 2900 to the 3930. One of the only things holding me back is the slowness issue as well as ergonomics. Both are acceptable on my 2900. I really need to see if the 3930 compares - or is a step back in this regard.

Additionally - the projector (JVC RS-1) I'll be buying next month has a top quality scaler (Gennum) - so I may have no need to use the Denon's internal Realta scaler. Which seems like a terrible waste. Any thoughts???I think Larry nailed my answer as well. I'm not sure there's much to be gained over the Oppo if your PJ is going to have a Gennum chip.

I'll play around with MPEG NR to see how it affects detail. I'll probably end up having one Picture memory setup for NR and another without NR.

Have just opened the box and set up my 2930 (finally!!).

Hooked into my 2 ch system right now playing SACD.
Will try it on video this weekend.

My Arcam CDP took awhile to break in.
Can I expect a similar situation with the Denon?

Have just opened the box and set up my 2930 (finally!!).

Hooked into my 2 ch system right now playing SACD.
Will try it on video this weekend.

My Arcam CDP took awhile to break in.
Can I expect a similar situation with the Denon?
Congrats Rang.
Took you long enough!! :rolleyes:

Hey... can you get all your multi-ch SACDs to downmix to 2-ch?
How about your DVD-A's... got any?

shane

Congrats Rang.
Took you long enough!! :rolleyes:

Hey... can you get all your multi-ch SACDs to downmix to 2-ch?
How about your DVD-A's... got any?

shane

Delay was caused by two things.
Took me awhile to find a dealer who had both the 2930/3930 hooked up in the same room so that I could compare audio.
3930 better but to my my ears on their system (Denon receiver and B&W 600 series speakers) the difference wasn't large enough to pay the extra $600
Then everyone was out of stock.

Haven't tried the downmixing thing yet, not even sure how to do it.

DVD-A:
Beatles - Love
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad
Doobie Brothers - Captain & Me
Grateful Dead - Workingman's Dead
Steely Dan - Two Against Nature

Haven't even opened them yet.

This thing refuses to recognize the SACD layer on half of the discs I've tried so far, regardless of how I adjust the SACD Setup. One of these discs played no problem at the dealer.
Bad discs (which I doubt), bad player (I hope not) or set-up?

Hi All,

I have skimmed this _large_ thread, but haven't seen what i am looking for - I have a new 2930 which i am very happy with (particularly now i hacked it to be region free:)).

Can someone point me to where i can find info on:
- settings i should have in the settings pages of this dvd - i am using hdmi output into a pioneer 5070HD plasma

- picture settings - i am not sure on this one - if i calibrate my display using avia (haven't done it yet though), why would i used any of these picture settings? Are there any i should absolutely use and set to a particular value?

thanks,
Brett

Hi All,

I have skimmed this _large_ thread, but haven't seen what i am looking for - I have a new 2930 which i am very happy with (particularly now i hacked it to be region free:)).

Can someone point me to where i can find info on:
- settings i should have in the settings pages of this dvd - i am using hdmi output into a pioneer 5070HD plasma

- picture settings - i am not sure on this one - if i calibrate my display using avia (haven't done it yet though), why would i used any of these picture settings? Are there any i should absolutely use and set to a particular value?

thanks,
Brett

It's best to calibrate with your display settings (leaving the player's settings at default).

I do have the high frequency sharpness set to +1, but this may be dependent on the display. The Avia sharpness pattern is excellent for this setting.

Brett,

How is the picture quality on PAL discs? How did you make your 2930 region free?

Thanks,
Nicholas.

regarding PAL - it looks fine to me - i have only looked at the 1 disc i have from australia which is a different region - the office - looked fine...haven't done any great comparisons...i am just happy it works....

as for how i did it, there is detailed instructions in this thread - just search for PAL or region free etc.

note, the dvd player already does PAL conversions (from ntsc), the hack is to just make it region free so u can play dvd's from any region.

note, the dvd player already does PAL conversions (from ntsc), the hack is to just make it region free so u can play dvd's from any region.

Correct, my 2900 is region free and plays PAL DVD's perfectly. I had to insert a special CDR (e-bay) to make mine region free. But I understand you can do this w/ the 3930 by knowing the correct buttons to push on the front panel.

This thing refuses to recognize the SACD layer on half of the discs I've tried so far, regardless of how I adjust the SACD Setup. One of these discs played no problem at the dealer.
Bad discs (which I doubt), bad player (I hope not) or set-up?

Happy that you finally got the player. But the SACD issue sounds like it could be a bad unit. Take the disks to the dealer to see if it's the disks or the player.

My experience is that these players sound better once broken in. Also, IMO the DVD-A sound better than SACD - I am interested in your opinion.

My experience is that these players sound better once broken in.
Why would that be? When it comes to DVD players, we're talking about solid state electronics, , not soft, moving parts as with speakers which do require a "break-in" period. :confused:

This thing refuses to recognize the SACD layer on half of the discs I've tried so far, regardless of how I adjust the SACD Setup. One of these discs played no problem at the dealer.
Bad discs (which I doubt), bad player (I hope not) or set-up?
I wonder what's going on with the SACD playback. I just swapped out my '3930 with the dealer because I was getting lock-ups. On the previous player, the Advanced AL24 Processing light on the player never lit up when I played an SACD disk. I assume that was because AL24 is designed to be applied only to PCM signals. However, on my new unit AL 24 does light up with SACD's.
Anyone know what's up with that?

Happy that you finally got the player. But the SACD issue sounds like it could be a bad unit. Take the disks to the dealer to see if it's the disks or the player.

My experience is that these players sound better once broken in. Also, IMO the DVD-A sound better than SACD - I am interested in your opinion.

I did just that today, took 4 of the offending discs to the dealer and loaded them into their demo 3930.
It read the SACD layer flawlessly on all 4 discs.

I hope it sounds better when broken in. The cymbals don't sound right. Very slightly garbled is the best term I can use to describe how they sound.

Haven't tried any DVD-A yet.
I will be disappointed if DVD-A surpasses SACD. I have way more of the latter in my collection. Considering this machine will be used for hi-rez audio at least 50% of the time was it the right choice?
It will only be my primary video player until I adopt Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD. Maybe I should take a second look at the Pioneer 79 which I thought sounded great on SACD. It would be about the same price.

I wonder what's going on with the SACD playback. I just swapped out my '3930 with the dealer because I was getting lock-ups. On the previous player, the Advanced AL24 Processing light on the player never lit up when I played an SACD disk. I assume that was because AL24 is designed to be applied only to PCM signals. However, on my new unit AL 24 does light up with SACD's.
Anyone know what's up with that?

The AL24 light only comes on during CD playback (not SACD) on my 2930.

Yet when I tried the 3930 in the store today, it did light up on SACD playback. :confused:

This is, indeed, strange. While I distinctly recall seeing the AL 24 blue light on during playback of SACD's in recent days, when I played an SACD again last night, that light did not go on. I also tried all the different inputs, i.e., Ext. In, two-channel analogue and Denon Link and the light never went on with SACD's. And now you're saying that it happened in the store. There's gotta' be some explanation, and it's not because I was in CD layer mode.

I did just that today, took 4 of the offending discs to the dealer and loaded them into their demo 3930.
It read the SACD layer flawlessly on all 4 discs.

I hope it sounds better when broken in. The cymbals don't sound right. Very slightly garbled is the best term I can use to describe how they sound.

Haven't tried any DVD-A yet.
I will be disappointed if DVD-A surpasses SACD. I have way more of the latter in my collection. Considering this machine will be used for hi-rez audio at least 50% of the time was it the right choice?
It will only be my primary video player until I adopt Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD. Maybe I should take a second look at the Pioneer 79 which I thought sounded great on SACD. It would be about the same price.

Sounds like you had best return and replace your 3930 then. It sounds a bit cocked-up.

Ruin

AL24 is 24-bit processing of a signal.

Since SACD is DSD single bit stream, AL24 won't light up, *unless* you're doing some funky bass management or channel mixing, in which case DSD will be converted to PCM first.

Same thing is happening in my Denon 4306. Couldn't get the "DSD" to indicate on the screen and I was hitting my head in frustration why...

I hadn't connected my back speakers yet (changing the house) and so the receiver had to mix 5.1 into 3.1 - and falls back to PCM to do that!

DVD-A:
Beatles - Love
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad
Doobie Brothers - Captain & Me
Grateful Dead - Workingman's Dead
Steely Dan - Two Against Nature

Haven't even opened them yet.

This thing refuses to recognize the SACD layer on half of the discs I've tried so far, regardless of how I adjust the SACD Setup. One of these discs played no problem at the dealer.
Bad discs (which I doubt), bad player (I hope not) or set-up?

That's bad news. I had to return my 2930 due to it not recognizing the SACD layer. If you keep opening and closing the tray, eventually after about 20 tries the unit MAY recognize the SACD layer. But, that's BS. You better try some DVD-A's too because mine wouldn't even read them at all - each one eventually locked up the unit. I'd say you've likely got a bad / defective player. I had to send mine back. I contacted Denon and they just took down the info on the problems I had. They never got back with me or anything. Denon's customer service is about as bad as it comes from my experience.

But, soon I'll be getting another one. When it played SACD layers, oh how beautiful it was!

Why would that be? When it comes to DVD players, we're talking about solid state electronics, , not soft, moving parts as with speakers which do require a "break-in" period. :confused:

I don't know about the mechanics, but I do know that electronic devices will change their sound after about 100 hours of playing. Because the changes are subtile and occur slowly it is not noticeable (like watching kids grow up) until you look for differences. However, if you can play the equipment for three or four days on repeat and the deferences will be quickly apparent. I can't because my wife does not trust new equipment to be on for extended periods of time.

Now don't tell me that you haven't recalibrated your display after 6 to 9 months?

I don't know about the mechanics, but I do know that electronic devices will change their sound after about 100 hours of playing. Because the changes are subtile and occur slowly it is not noticeable (like watching kids grow up) until you look for differences. However, if you can play the equipment for three or four days on repeat and the deferences will be quickly apparent. I can't because my wife does not trust new equipment to be on for extended periods of time.

Now don't tell me that you haven't recalibrated your display after 6 to 9 months?

My Arcam amp and CDP both improved with time. I used to think "break in" ocurred more between the ears.

But I did the repeat thing for a few days with the CD player and the difference was noticable.

Have just put the 2930 on repeat so we'll see what happens.
This machine does have to go back though so I'll be doing this all over again when I get a replacement.

My Arcam amp and CDP both improved with time. I used to think "break in" ocurred more between the ears.

But I did the repeat thing for a few days with the CD player and the difference was noticable.How can you "notice" audio changes occurring over several days? Do you really believe the acoustic memory of human beings is good enough to "remember" in detail what something sounded like days or weeks ago, particularly when the changes are almost always described as "subtle"?

What is most likely going on is that when you first listen to a new source, it sounds different from what you are used to. Over time, however, you become used to the new sound and your brain perceives it as "better." The only possible technical explanation for an actual change would be something aging in the DAC's circuitry, which is not bloody likely IMHO. (Of course, this could only be possible if you're using the analog outputs---if you're outputting a digital stream to your receiver or processor, then there is NO possibility that the sound is changing).

The ONLY scientifically-valid way to assess this would be to arrange a controlled blind (preferably double-blind) A/B test: you'd first blind-A/B two identical new units to verify they sound the same; secondly you'd allow one of the units to "break-in," and lastly repeat the blind-A/B test to see if you could reliably tell which of the two was the "broken-in" one.

How can you "notice" audio changes occurring over several days? Do you really believe the acoustic memory of human beings is good enough to "remember" in detail what something sounded like days or weeks ago, particularly when the changes are almost always described as "subtle"?

What is most likely going on is that when you first listen to a new source, it sounds different from what you are used to. Over time, however, you become used to the new sound and your brain perceives it as "better." The only possible technical explanation for an actual change would be something aging in the DAC's circuitry, which is not bloody likely IMHO. (Of course, this could only be possible if you're using the analog outputs---if you're outputting a digital stream to your receiver or processor, then there is NO possibility that the sound is changing).

The ONLY scientifically-valid way to assess this would be to arrange a controlled blind (preferably double-blind) A/B test: you'd first blind-A/B two identical new units to verify they sound the same; secondly you'd allow one of the units to "break-in," and lastly repeat the blind-A/B test to see if you could reliably tell which of the two was the "broken-in" one.

Another DBT advocate.
Whatever.
I stand by my feelings and opinions.
Let's agree to disagree

I just ordered a DVD-3930CI from ButterflyPhoto , I can't wait to get this thing! From the specs, it looks like one heck of a machine.

This will replace my ($199.00) Sony DVP-NS90P player. A very nice machine for the price- all the way around.

I'm so curious now to hear the difference between a pretty good-sounding mid-level Sony, to a much more "high-end" Denon model.

I just ordered a DVD-3930CI from ButterflyPhoto , I can't wait to get this thing! From the specs, it looks like one heck of a machine.

This will replace my ($199.00) Sony DVP-NS90P player. A very nice machine for the price- all the way around.

I'm so curious now to hear the difference between a pretty good-sounding mid-level Sony, to a much more "high-end" Denon model.

Great! Very tempting - but are they an authorized Denon retailer - so the factory warranty will be honored by Denon?

Also - let us know when your unit arrives - and what you think of it!

How can you "notice" audio changes occurring over several days? Do you really believe the acoustic memory of human beings is good enough to "remember" in detail what something sounded like days or weeks ago, particularly when the changes are almost always described as "subtle"?

What is most likely going on is that when you first listen to a new source, it sounds different from what you are used to. Over time, however, you become used to the new sound and your brain perceives it as "better." The only possible technical explanation for an actual change would be something aging in the DAC's circuitry, which is not bloody likely IMHO. (Of course, this could only be possible if you're using the analog outputs---if you're outputting a digital stream to your receiver or processor, then there is NO possibility that the sound is changing).

The ONLY scientifically-valid way to assess this would be to arrange a controlled blind (preferably double-blind) A/B test: you'd first blind-A/B two identical new units to verify they sound the same; secondly you'd allow one of the units to "break-in," and lastly repeat the blind-A/B test to see if you could reliably tell which of the two was the "broken-in" one.

I said that you can not notice small changes that occur over the break-in period. By playing disks that I am familiar with, weeks apart, I can notice that the music is less harsh, clearer, or soundstage improvements. I do not claim that I can describe the details of the presentation weeks apart.

If the digital stream was so robust as to be unaffected by transport, power supplies, capacitor design, etc. we would all be using $50, 1 pound, progressive scan players made by Coby.

Correct, my 2900 is region free and plays PAL DVD's perfectly. I had to insert a special CDR (e-bay) to make mine region free. But I understand you can do this w/ the 3930 by knowing the correct buttons to push on the front panel.
John, can you elaborate a little bit more on that topic ? I just got an used Denon 3910 and would also like to make it region free.

Any help appreciated.

John, can you elaborate a little bit more on that topic ? I just got an used Denon 3910 and would also like to make it region free.

Any help appreciated.

I bought a CD-R off of e-bay and inserted it into my 2900 and hit play. Viooola! One minute later my machine was region free. Do some google searching under "region free DVD" for more info on your particular machine.

Or try this. (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?dvdplayer=denon+3910&hits=50&Search=Search)

Provides both the firmware hack and one that is merely keyed in with the remote. I can't vouch for either for the 3910; I can only confirm the remote hack works on a R2 DVD-2930. I'd try the remote first before I'd mess around with firmware.

I too am interesting in a region free hack for my region one DVD-2930CI. Has anybody actually tried either of these. I did fry a player once when trying a CD-R based firmware
update, so I am a little reluctant to try that again. I've also had successes in the past as well. Is there any risk to trying the remote hack. What is the worst things that can happen and is that recoverable?

are they an authorized Denon retailer - so the factory warranty will be honored by Denon?they told me, no problem, any problem will be handled by New Jersey organized crime..........No, they (ButterflyPhoto) essentially, handle any warranty claims- ie. you would have to ship it back to ButterflyPhoto and they would process the claim.

Or try this. (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?dvdplayer=denon+3910&hits=50&Search=Search)

Provides both the firmware hack and one that is merely keyed in with the remote. I can't vouch for either for the 3910; I can only confirm the remote hack works on a R2 DVD-2930. I'd try the remote first before I'd mess around with firmware.
I tried this on an R1 DVD-2930Ci twice with no luck. I still says Region_1 and still displays "Wrong Region" when I insert a region 2 disc. Bummer.

This is not related to the Realta T2 chip but I am trying to reach a decision on which unit to buy. While video is important to me, audio is significantly more important (i.e. SACD, DVD-Audio). I have scrolled the whole thread and my take is that there were some video issues with the 3910 that have been addressed with the release of the 3930CI. Additionally, there have been reported issues with the 3910 not being able to read recorded DVD/CDs. I have found an authorized dealer that will sell a new, sealed 3910 for real cheap. I would appreciate anyone with an opinion based on my stated preconditions regarding audio preference.

The unit will be in a 5.1 configuration with fairly highend AV gear. I can provide the equipment the unit will be connected to, if necessary.

Thanks!

I am trying to reach a decision on which unit to buy. audio is significantly more important (i.e. SACD, DVD-Audio).I have found an authorized dealer that will sell a new, sealed 3910 for real cheap.I purchased my 3930CI for, primarily, the same reasons-- for multi-channel music (SACD's and DVD-A's). I want premium audio capability, good DAC's (Burr Brown).

So why would you want a 3910 when both, the 3930CI and 3910, are listed for the same retail price ($1499.00)?

I tried this on an R1 DVD-2930Ci twice with no luck. I still says Region_1 and still displays "Wrong Region" when I insert a region 2 disc. Bummer.Sorry to see you're still struggling with this Miata (I noticed a post from you in late Nov on the same topic). Let me try to help...

For my posting last night, I didn't read the remote hack closely enough...it is not exactly the same as the one I successfully used on my (European) R2 DVD-2930. Apologies for that. The one I actually used is described in post #1265 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8779187&highlight=Region+1+2930CI#post8779187) in this very thread, which in that post was reported to work on a R1 2930CI player! It also worked on my R2 player. Have you tried this?

Some tips for you...you need to follow the instructions exactly. Below I've reproduced RDODOLAK's posting and have highlighted points where you might be going wrong. Let me know if you have any success.

1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. With the unit on (green light, not red), power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Still/Pause buttons on the front panel (not remote).
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button, hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press Stop and Skip Forward (>>I) simultaneously on the front panel . The front panel will briefly display “Region_A1”.

I had to make 2 or 3 attempts at this, as the player seems rather finicky. Note that you can toggle between "REGION_1" (region-locked) and "REGION_A1" (unlocked) using the above procedure. Why would you want to do this? Turns out to check the firmware version you need to return the player to region-locked mode. Go figure.

VideoFreek,

You are my hero. This worked like a champ first. The step 3 instructions are definitely diffferent. I now get Region _A1 and a Japanese R2 Totoro animation played fine. No more need to make copies of R2 discs.

Sorry to see you're still struggling with this Miata (I noticed a post from you in late Nov on the same topic). Let me try to help...

For my posting last night, I didn't read the remote hack closely enough...it is not exactly the same as the one I successfully used on my (European) R2 DVD-2930. Apologies for that. The one I actually used is described in post #1265 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8779187&highlight=Region+1+2930CI#post8779187) in this very thread, which in that post was reported to work on a R1 2930CI player! It also worked on my R2 player. Have you tried this?

Some tips for you...you need to follow the instructions exactly. Below I've reproduced RDODOLAK's posting and have highlighted points where you might be going wrong. Let me know if you have any success.

1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. With the unit on (green light, not red), power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Still/Pause buttons on the front panel (not remote).
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button, hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press Stop and Skip Forward (>>I) simultaneously on the front panel . The front panel will briefly display “Region_A1”.

I had to make 2 or 3 attempts at this, as the player seems rather finicky. Note that you can toggle between "REGION_1" (region-locked) and "REGION_A1" (unlocked) using the above procedure. Why would you want to do this? Turns out to check the firmware version you need to return the player to region-locked mode. Go figure.

Wonder if this works on a 3930???

they told me, no problem, any problem will be handled by New Jersey organized crime..........No, they (ButterflyPhoto) essentially, handle any warranty claims- ie. you would have to ship it back to ButterflyPhoto and they would process the claim.

Thanks. That's basically what I thought. However - I've had excellent luck w/ my Denons. A little roll of the dice - but what a GREAT price! Very tempting to me. Please report back when it arrives!!!

I tried to order from ButterflyPhoto. They have there own repair centers. Salesman called me and fed me a line of bull trying to sell me extra cables and warranties. They told me 4 times my 2930 had shipped when it never had. I finally canceled order and went Crutchfield.

I purchased my 3930CI for, primarily, the same reasons-- for multi-channel music (SACD's and DVD-A's). I want premium audio capability, good DAC's (Burr Brown).

So why would you want a 3910 when both, the 3930CI and 3910, are listed for the same retail price ($1499.00)?

The mods must have removed the price I listed for the 3910. I can get it for less than half of the retail price new/sealed from an authorized dealer as a closeout with full warranty. That is my reasoning for considering it. It appears you may have answered my question be stating the players use the same DACs. I don't know if the transports are the same/similar. Anyone know if there are signifcant changes in the transport?

Thanks. That's basically what I thought. However - I've had excellent luck w/ my Denons. A little roll of the dice - but what a GREAT price! Very tempting to me. Please report back when it arrives!!!

Boy did I jinx my 2900 w/ the statement "I've had excellent luck w/ my Denons" I made yesterday as my 2900 locked up last night (first time) at the layer-change and had to be un-plugged to clear.

yogibare143:
How long ago was this? Having their own repair centers makes me kinda nervous vs. sending the unit into Denon for repair (which I may have to do now w/ my 2900)

WestCoastD:
When is your player scheduled to arrive? Next week?

I tried to order from ButterflyPhoto. They have there own repair centers. Salesman called me and fed me a line of bull trying to sell me extra cables and warranties. They told me 4 times my 2930 had shipped when it never had. I finally canceled order and went Crutchfield.You may want to read this. (http://www.newyork.bbb.org/reports/businessreports.aspx?pid=44&page=1&id=74813) Caveat emptor!

The mods must have removed the price I listed for the 3910. I guess it can't hurt to make a general statement just to refresh the policy. This is not directed at anybody even though I did quote Krellav's post.

MRSP-only price talk is a "policy" at AVS. Mainly for 2 reasons. 1) We don't want AVS to be a "best price" shopping forum. There's plenty of other sites to do this. AVS is meant to be a technical forum. 2) There are forum sponsers who pay AVS to get ad space and to help pay the bills of keeping the site alive. Directing people away from AVS to buy things that sponsors sell isn't going to help the sponors or AVS. :)

For DVD players I don't believe 2) really applies, but maintaining the policy across the board keeps people in the mindset.

larry

Wonder if this works on a 3930???I've seen confirmation that it works on European 3930s, so I'd expect it to work on the R1 version as well. You'll never know until you try!

John Ballentine
I placed order with ButterflyPhoto October 14. Cancelled on October 27. I would not recommend them to any one.

You may want to read this. (http://www.newyork.bbb.org/reports/businessreports.aspx?pid=44&page=1&id=74813) Caveat emptor!

Holy cow! Guess it pays to do some homework. I never thought to check The Better Business Bureau!

2) There are forum sponsers who pay AVS to get ad space and to help pay the bills of keeping the site alive. Directing people away from AVS to buy things that sponsors sell isn't going to help the sponors or AVS. :)

For DVD players I don't believe 2) really applies, but maintaining the policy across the board keeps people in the mindset.

larryBut if a sponsor was price competitive, say pricing an Elite 1140 plasma at $3K instead of MSRP (whatever the prices are these days), wouldn't people flock to them instead of away? Not only would they flock to them, but it would be in huge masses given the sponsorship advertisement. But, it seems they want higher margins. It's been proven that discounted prices sold in large volumes results in higher sales. Volume generates faster growth than pricing in my opinion (i.e., the old Gateway or Dell). They have a chance to make huge sales, but they don't. Everybody loses.

But if a sponsor was price competitive, say pricing an Elite 1140 plasma at $3K instead of MSRP (whatever the prices are these days), wouldn't people flock to them instead of away? Not only would they flock to them, but it would be in huge masses given the sponsorship advertisement. But, it seems they want higher margins. It's been proven that discounted prices sold in large volumes results in higher sales. Volume generates faster growth than pricing in my opinion (i.e., the old Gateway or Dell). They have a chance to make huge sales, but they don't. Everybody loses.I didn't post to start a debate. :) Let's try to stay on topic. Carry on....

larry

When is your player scheduled to arrive? Next week?hopefully, at least by the end of this week, or beginning of next week sometime. I'm not too "anal" about receiving exactly by a specific day, I usually give up to ten business days.

hopefully, at least by the end of this week, or beginning of next week sometime. I'm not too "anal" about receiving exactly by a specific day, I usually give up to ten business days.

I got my fingers crossed for you! (If it turns out Ok - you got a heck of a deal)

Since 3910 is almost half price of MSRP now, I'm thinking of getting one for video purpose. I already have 2-channel music system, so audio is not important to me. My question is whether the picture quality of 3930 is a big different than 3910 at 1080i ?

Has anyone watched movies played on 3930 at 1080p to 1080p display? what's your opinion?


thanks.

what display type will you be using?

Ruin

I got my fingers crossed for you! (If it turns out Ok - you got a heck of a deal)so what other vendors (on-line/mail-order) have others been successful with here- purchasing a DVD-3930Ci ?

so what other vendors (on-line/mail-order) have others been successful with here- purchasing a DVD-3930Ci ?

In the past - for Denon - I've used either Crutchfield or Magnolia at Best Buy (special order). Both charge full MSRP. The only good thing is you have a 30 day no-questions-asked-return policy and the Denon warranty. Which I've only used once.

so what other vendors (on-line/mail-order) have others been successful with here- purchasing a DVD-3930Ci ?ListenUp.com

In the UK website, in the specifications, they said than both 3930 and 2930 had the DVDO scaler!!

Maybe it´s just the european version, or just a mistake...

so what other vendors (on-line/mail-order) have others been successful with here- purchasing a DVD-3930Ci ?
Before Crutchfield had any in stock I bought mine from ABT. As with Crutchfield, great cust. service and return policy. Sure you pay more than many discounters, but it's worth the peace of mind (authorized and all).

Normally... when buying locally I shop at my nearby Magnolia. I kept calling for the availability, but they didn't get them in until looooooong after I bought it from ABT.

shane

Wonder if Denon will be making any new DVD player announcements at CES?

Wonder if they'll ever get into the HD war any time soon?

Considering the DVD "XX30" line just came out this summer/fall, I wouldn't expect any. I still believe they are on the fence with HD - rumor I heard is Onkyo will be making an HD announcement (owned by same company).

Maybe it´s just the european version, or just a mistake...

It's a mistake. Only the 5910(CI)/A1XV(A) has DVDO's ABT scaling.

Considering the DVD "XX30" line just came out this summer/fall, I wouldn't expect any. I still believe they are on the fence with HD - rumor I heard is Onkyo will be making an HD announcement (owned by same company).
As of this past spring, Denon was keeping its options open, though they are formally part of the BlueRay group. They are not, however, owned by the same parent company as Onkyo. They're owned by D&M Holdings and their sister company is Marantz. Onkyo's sister company is Integra.

It's very interesting to me that manufacturers, like Denon, are releasing such unit's (such as the DVD-3930CI) without one of the HD-DVD/BluRay formats- at these prices (ie. 1499.99). Thank god it at least has 1080p scaling.

BTW, looks like this player is really "hot" right now. One popular local "boutique" outlet (The Sound Factor) say's everyone is raving about this unit, and that many retailers have quantities back-ordered. Apparently Denon can not keep up with demand at the moment.

It's very interesting to me that manufacturers, like Denon, are releasing such unit's (such as the DVD-3930CI) without one of the HD-DVD/BluRay formats- at these prices (ie. 1499.99). Thank god it at least has 1080p scaling.

BTW, looks like this player is really "hot" right now. One popular local "boutique" outlet (The Sound Factor) say's everyone is raving about this unit, and that many retailers have quantities back-ordered. Apparently Denon can keep up with demand at the moment.

If it's "hot" evidently the pricing is right for the market.

It's very interesting to me that manufacturers, like Denon, are releasing such unit's (such as the DVD-3930CI) without one of the HD-DVD/BluRay formats- at these prices (ie. 1499.99). Thank god it at least has 1080p scaling.

BTW, looks like this player is really "hot" right now. One popular local "boutique" outlet (The Sound Factor) say's everyone is raving about this unit, and that many retailers have quantities back-ordered. Apparently Denon can not keep up with demand at the moment.

Well - high quality (built-like-a-tank) SD DVD players are still needed for those of us w/ huge SD collections that we will want to continue to view for many years to come. I'm not impressed w/ any of the new HD machines (either camp) to be used as my SD player. (I've tried them all)

Well - high quality (built-like-a-tank) SD DVD players are still needed for those of us w/ huge SD collections that we will want to continue to view for many years to come. I'm not impressed w/ any of the new HD machines (either camp) to be used as my SD player. (I've tried them all)

Would you be a little more specific. I am asking because I am considering getting the Denon 2930 for my Sony KDL 40XBR3. I currently have the Toshiba HDA1 running to my KDS 60XBR1 and really like the upconversion it does on standard DVD's. Your feeling is that the Denon would exhibit a superior picture as opposed to the Toshiba (for standard DVD's)? Thanks.

I've seen the Toshiba doing upconversion of standard DVD's, too, and I'd agree that the Denon makes them look much better.

I've seen the Toshiba doing upconversion of standard DVD's, too, and I'd agree that the Denon makes them look much better.

I agree too. I did careful A/B comparisons (SD playback) between the HDA1 and Denon - and picked the Denon every time. Plus the Denon is a much friendlier, faster and smoother performer (IMHO). I also much prefer it's on-screen-display, no visible/audible layer change, remote and especially player reliability. I never knew when my HD-A1 was gonna glitch (It's since been returned) - which is very embarrassing when you have people over.

The Denon 2930 and 3930 are considerably better than the Toshiba HD-A1 in regards to deinterlacing, scaling, and overall SD DVD image quality.

A few months back I must have spent about 2-3 hours one evening A/Bing the HD-A1 and the 2930 on my display. After doing calibrations for each player and using a variety of different film-based DVDs, the HD-A1 was just a hair sharper - I mean it was very slight. However, it didn't offer any greater detail. But, the 2930 produced a considerably cleaner image, better color rendition, better black levels and shadow detail, and just a smoother, more three-dimensional filmlike image - the HD-A1 looked flat and less dimensional in comparision. As far as objective tests - the 2930 pretty much blew away the HD-A1 on HQV and Avia (such as the moving Zone plate test).

The 2930 produced a considerably cleaner image, better color rendition, better black levels and shadow detail, and just a smoother, more three-dimensional filmlike image

I've tried calibrating with DVE and am not getting the same results. Might be smoother than my old Toshiba SD-2109 but I'm not happy with color or black level detail. Maybe I expected too much. It's not bad. It's just not that great either.
Maybe I need to tinker with some of the other settings (color decoding etc.) on my TV.

I've tried calibrating with DVE and am not getting the same results. Might be smoother than my old Toshiba SD-2109 but I'm not happy with color or black level detail. Maybe I expected too much. It's not bad. It's just not that great either.
Maybe I need to tinker with some of the other settings (color decoding etc.) on my TV.

It's absolutely essential to have the ability to color decode EACH color separately - which means turning off two colors at a time - probably needed to be done from your service menu (but, I don't recommend trying this unless you absolutely know what you are doing). My display was ISF calibrated, as well.

Also, make sure you're using the proper color space for your display (RGB, etc.).

It's absolutely essential to have the ability to color decode EACH color separately - which means turning off two colors at a time - probably needed to be done from your service menu (but, I don't recommend trying this unless you absolutely know what you are doing). My display was ISF calibrated, as well.

Also, make sure you're using the proper color space for your display (RGB, etc.).

I can decode each color separately via the user menu. I'll try playing with that.
Started from factory default using the basic adjustmenmts on DVE (Chapter 7 or 8 IIRC).
End up with a picture too yellow and putting black enhancement on to get decent darks.

Proper color space for my display....I was wondering about that.
How do I determine this? I have a Hitachi 50VS810 RP-LCD.
I've been using YBR 720p or 1080i

I used to work in this industry so I like to think I'm way farther ahead than the average consumer. Maybe not

If you get what looks like a "normal" image the TV is recognizing whatever you are sending it - RGB vs YCbCr. Otherwise you'd know. :) With a LCD of any type, you are going to have to give up something at the lower end of the gray scale. Adjusting brightness and contrast is all you need to to do get low level blacks to look the best they can on your TV.

larry

At last, two months after I ordered it, my DVD-3930 arrived yesterday. It is connected with HDMI to a Pioneer 50'' plasma (the model is called PDP 506 XDE in Europe) whose native resolution is 1280 x 768. The audio outputs of the player are connected to a Denon AVC A11XVA (AVR 4806 in the US, but without tuner) in several ways: Denon Link, coaxial digital, analogue 2 channel and analogue 5.1 (for SACD) to Ext. in on the amplifier.

The Pioneer display does not accept it's own native resolution 1280 x 768 when the 3930 is outputting this resolution as PC XWGA. Neither does it accept 1080p with RGB or component. So the only higher resolutions which seem to work are 720p and 1080i. I was hoping to be able to bypass the display's de-interlacer and scaler, but this seems to be impossible.

I would appreciate ideas and suggestions from people using the 3930 with a comparable plasma display about how to tweak the player in order to get an optimal PQ from the display.

Merry Christmas

Andy

I would be really interested to know if the new Denons can clean up the aliasing and moire on Mission Impossible III, in particular the vatican scene with the steps in the background. It is at the start of a chapter on our disk but I dont know which one, as I only hired the disk.I noticed it too on my elite 1130 display. But, as I was watching Leno last night, the 1130 had the same issues with the buildings on Leno's background. So, maybe it's the display and not the 3930 or maybe it's both.

Originally Posted by btiltman
I would be really interested to know if the new Denons can clean up the aliasing and moire on Mission Impossible III, in particular the vatican scene with the steps in the background. It is at the start of a chapter on our disk but I dont know which one, as I only hired the disk.

The moire on the vatican steps was there on my 3930 calibrated with DVE MPEG with MPEG NR off and NR +1. It is acutally the first time I ever noticed moire on any dvd with either my 2910 or 3930. Never noticed any aliasing problems though.

At last, two months after I ordered it, my DVD-3930 arrived yesterday. It is connected with HDMI to a Pioneer 50'' plasma (the model is called PDP 506 XDE in Europe) whose native resolution is 1280 x 768. The audio outputs of the player are connected to a Denon AVC A11XVA (AVR 4806 in the US, but without tuner) in several ways: Denon Link, coaxial digital, analogue 2 channel and analogue 5.1 (for SACD) to Ext. in on the amplifier.

The Pioneer display does not accept it's own native resolution 1280 x 768 when the 3930 is outputting this resolution as PC XWGA. Neither does it accept 1080p with RGB or component. So the only higher resolutions which seem to work are 720p and 1080i. I was hoping to be able to bypass the display's de-interlacer and scaler, but this seems to be impossible.

I would appreciate ideas and suggestions from people using the 3930 with a comparable plasma display about how to tweak the player in order to get an optimal PQ from the display.

Merry Christmas

Andy

Merry Christmas indeed :)! Congratulation on the new unit, hope that you enjoy it as much as I do mine.

I am curious as to you opinion how it compares sonically to your 5900. BTW, my 3930 took about 60 hours to break in. Now it beats the sound of my old Sony DVP 9000ES in both redbook and SACD and come very close to the redbook of my Audionet Art player.

Merry Christmas indeed :) BTW, my 3930 took about 60 hours to break in. Now it beats the sound of my old Sony DVP 9000ES in both redbook and SACD and come very close to the redbook of my Audionet Art player.

I've been running my 2930 on repeat for a few days and it does seem to be better (though I'm sure many would say the difference is in my head).

Too bad my machine is a dud (won't recognize SACD layer on most hybrids). I'll have to break in the replacement all over again.
I am also going to see how much to upgarde to the 3930. I figure my best deal will happen during Boxing Week.

Having decided to wait out the HD format war for all of the previously stated reasons (ie won't recount here), I've been struggling with an interim solution. My priorities are equally divided between video and audio (ie CD, SCAD, DVD-A). I'm strongly considering either the 2930CI and 3930CI as the universal player to last me through this HD format war for video (ie and beyond for audio).

Another option I'm considering: Invest in a quality stand-alone CD/SCAD/DAVID-A player to last well into the future (ie with Audio that exceeds the 3930CI). Then get something along the lines of an Oppo 970HD as an "interim" video solution...until it makes sense to make the HD investment. I'm just having trouble making the investment in a universal solution now that only includes SD-DVD.

Any recommendations on stand-alone audio with this approach?

You might also want to see if there is any good information on purely music transports in the "CD Players & Dedicated Music Transports" sub-forum.

I can decode each color separately via the user menu. I'll try playing with that.
Started from factory default using the basic adjustmenmts on DVE (Chapter 7 or 8 IIRC).
End up with a picture too yellow and putting black enhancement on to get decent darks.

Proper color space for my display....I was wondering about that.
How do I determine this? I have a Hitachi 50VS810 RP-LCD.
I've been using YBR 720p or 1080i



Just spent at least 2 hours fiddling with this.
First set everything to factory default (basically everything at 50%)
Disengaged any special picture modes and adjusted the three primary colors individually.
Then went back to the DVE basic set-up and started from the beginning.

Time well spent!

Now I understand why everyone loves the picture on this machine :)

Viclaw wrote:

Merry Christmas indeed ! Congratulation on the new unit, hope that you enjoy it as much as I do mine.

I am curious as to you opinion how it compares sonically to your 5900. BTW, my 3930 took about 60 hours to break in. Now it beats the sound of my old Sony DVP 9000ES in both redbook and SACD and come very close to the redbook of my Audionet Art player.

My 5900 is gone, sold for 33 % of its original price (does anybody know a better
method for capital destruction?). Hence, there will be no possibility for A-B comparisons. As you certainly know, our acoustic memory is not particularly reliable and, of course, I strongly wish that the 3930 will sound better than the 5900. On the other hand, a higher model number of Burr Brown DACs does not necessarily mean better sound quality - see an interesting note on this in the review of 5910 at Audioholics (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD5910CIp1.php)

We are going to spend Christmas at our country house and I will leave the 3930 running on repeat for 5 days. If it doesn't break down after this exercise, I will report my sonic impressions after the holidays. What really troubles me is the impossibility of running the Pioneer display at its native resolution.

Andy

I'm surprised, with all the nice features and specs on the DVD-3930Ci that it only incorporates HDMI v1.1?

Viclaw wrote:
We are going to spend Christmas at our country house and I will leave the 3930 running on repeat for 5 days. If it doesn't break down after this exercise, I will report my sonic impressions after the holidays.
I'm still dubious about whether "breaking in" a solid state electronic device, as opposed to something like speakers with fabrics and other movable parts, really accomplishes anything. But to give the idea the benefit of the doubt, for the moment, when putting the player into "repeat" mode, is it necessary to actually output sound to the speakers, or is it enough just to have the action taking place within the player?

Just the player needs to be involved. No connections needed. One thing breaking in will accomplish is flushing out any mechanical problems before the warranty expires. :) For digital video and audio sections, break-in serves no purpose except for making sure the transport has no problems. Analog sections may or may not benefit depending on which side of the fence you are on.

larry

Viclaw wrote:
My 5900 is gone, sold for 33 % of its original price (does anybody know a better
method for capital destruction?). Hence, there will be no possibility for A-B comparisons. As you certainly know, our acoustic memory is not particularly reliable and, of course, I strongly wish that the 3930 will sound better than the 5900. On the other hand, a higher model number of Burr Brown DACs does not necessarily mean better sound quality - see an interesting note on this in the review of 5910 at Audioholics (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD5910CIp1.php)

We are going to spend Christmas at our country house and I will leave the 3930 running on repeat for 5 days. If it doesn't break down after this exercise, I will report my sonic impressions after the holidays. What really troubles me is the impossibility of running the Pioneer display at its native resolution.

Andy

Be careful, my 3930 runs very warm and I would never leave it operating untended in a closed equipment cabinet.

Be careful, my 3930 runs very warm and I would never leave it operating untended in a closed equipment cabinet.

Is it the Realta chip than generates the heat ?

My 2930 (with the Reon) will run for hours on end yet the cabinet is only very slightly warm.

Now that my 2930 is region-free I was able to remove my previous region-free work horse from the rack. Since I had a spare s-video input on my TV I decided to connect it to the 2930 . Last night while getting bored watching Spiderman with my son I started switching to the s-video output for grins. I have this thing connected to a Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT which has fairly capable s-video input processing. It has this super video mode that makes foreground objects appear to glide across the display. What blew me away was that after some minor tweaking the details, colors and 3-dimensional were close to what I was getting with a 480p component analog signal.Sure the 2930 de-interlacer was smoother with faster motion, but the TV's de-interlacer did it's magic with slower motion, pans and zooms.

The acid test was when my wife commented on the improvement in video quality. This doesn't seem to be my imagination. This made absolutely no sense to me. I read in the Denon literature that a lot of careful design went into the video DAC sections, but this was couldn't explain it all. I started wondering if there was some way that the s-video signal could benefit from the Silicon Optix Reon-VX processing. I remember reading somewhere about a Denon player de-interlacing, processing and re-interlacing a signal for 480i output. At the time, it didn't make much sense, but now I wonder.

Has anybody else had a similar experience or have any kind of explanation for the s-video quality? I know that many Loewe owners swear by s-video with that TV. I need to play with this some more, but if it all works out I will have a spare set of 1080i capable component inputs on my TV that I can use for playing with a HD DVD or Blu-ray player. Since my receiver has a 2-way component switcher I could even consider one of each. This is a big deal for me since the Aconda does not easily switch between 480i, 480p and 1080i modes.

I'm still dubious about whether "breaking in" a solid state electronic device, as opposed to something like speakers with fabrics and other movable parts, really accomplishes anything. But to give the idea the benefit of the doubt, for the moment, when putting the player into "repeat" mode, is it necessary to actually output sound to the speakers, or is it enough just to have the action taking place within the player?

Well, it is pretty well known that electronic equipment failures generally occur either early in the life of the equipment and decrease to a low level until old age sets in. So if you have a 30 day return policy or something of that nature it makes sense to run the equipment a lot during that 30 days to see if any defects crop up.

Of course if you abuse the equipment that is another issue - I wouldn't run it continuously on repeat for days on end, that is probably outside the duty cycle the equipment is designed for.

Now if you are looking for a performance improvement during "burn in", I am very skeptical.

Is it the Realta chip than generates the heat ?

My 2930 (with the Reon) will run for hours on end yet the cabinet is only very slightly warm.

I really don't know but my guess would be a combination of things. One being the video and audio DACs and more likely the larger power supplys.

RE Equipment Break-in
My most dramatic experience was when after I had auditioned a loaner of my amp/preamp. The new purchased units' the sound was terrible, no soundstage and grainy. I told the dealer that I was going to return the defective units. He convinced me to play them for a few weeks and if I was still unsatisfied he would exchange them or refund the money. It took two and a half weeks for the sound to become smother and the soundstage to open-up. That's when I became a believer. After this I do not critique equipment unless it was played over 100 hours.

For some equipment the changes may be subtile and not noticed unless you are watching for differences form the beginning.

Anyway I don't know what the fuss is about - all we are saying that a piece of equipment will either break or perform better after a few weeks. Better is good - no?

I have been lurking and reading avs forums for about a year doing research and getting opinions as I prepared to upgrade my system as i have been in college the last 8 yrs and now havw a huge increase in disposable income. My first buy was my 62 tosh hmx195 this past august and mythos speakers and was waiting for 2930ci be available and just got mine for christmas so I have a lot of noob questions. But this site has been so helpful to me I thought I would ask them here.
I have always wanted to get into SACD and last night was my try. I used Dark Side of the Moon and it was absolutley awesome but I felt that the bass was lacking from my sub. It felt like the rythemic driving of the song was missing. So is this common for SACD or is it something in the setup? I was using the 5.1 analog out connected to a basic sony recevier(leftover from college which will be upgraded to a denon avr in 2007). Doing it this way the 2930 DAC should be doing the work and I need to change the setup on the denon and leave the sony as is? I also have toslink to the sony recevier and hdmi to the tosh.

as for dvd audio I have read that alot of readers like to have the 5.1 analog for that also is there a noticeable difference? and how does that need be setup in the 2930?
In the audio setup is there a reason not to leave the output as multi channel?
For the crossover is frequencies below the cutoff that are sent to the sub? What is the best crossover I have read 80Hz is optimal?
Next be question is PCM: what is it and is it better to use it or let my receiver decode dolby digital and DTS? Why would I want the signals converted to 2 channel to go to my recevier?
Should i use sourcedirect when listening to SACD? What is it's advantage? Why would one listen to a SACD in only stero mode instead of multi.

Sorry for so many questions but I have kinda just dived head first into the waters of hi-rez audio. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

And by the way everything I have read about Denon manuals is TRUE!! What a pain in the rear!

I think it's a combo of great S-video output from the 2930 and the extraordinary processing of the Loewe. I have watch your TV peform several times and am always amazed at that 'super' video mode. It's almost like the TV is displaying 72Hz. It is scary smooth, almost unnatural. I've never been able to find out exactly what they do to achieve that effect. I believe that feature will work on 480i component output as well. You may very well find that to be the preferred hook up method for your combo.

Now that my 2930 is region-free I was able to remove my previous region-free work horse from the rack. Since I had a spare s-video input on my TV I decided to connect it to the 2930 . Last night while getting bored watching Spiderman with my son I started switching to the s-video output for grins. I have this thing connected to a Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT which has fairly capable s-video input processing. It has this super video mode that makes foreground objects appear to glide across the display. What blew me away was that after some minor tweaking the details, colors and 3-dimensional were close to what I was getting with a 480p component analog signal.Sure the 2930 de-interlacer was smoother with faster motion, but the TV's de-interlacer did it's magic with slower motion, pans and zooms.

The acid test was when my wife commented on the improvement in video quality. This doesn't seem to be my imagination. This made absolutely no sense to me. I read in the Denon literature that a lot of careful design went into the video DAC sections, but this was couldn't explain it all. I started wondering if there was some way that the s-video signal could benefit from the Silicon Optix Reon-VX processing. I remember reading somewhere about a Denon player de-interlacing, processing and re-interlacing a signal for 480i output. At the time, it didn't make much sense, but now I wonder.

Has anybody else had a similar experience or have any kind of explanation for the s-video quality? I know that many Loewe owners swear by s-video with that TV. I need to play with this some more, but if it all works out I will have a spare set of 1080i capable component inputs on my TV that I can use for playing with a HD DVD or Blu-ray player. Since my receiver has a 2-way component switcher I could even consider one of each. This is a big deal for me since the Aconda does not easily switch between 480i, 480p and 1080i modes.

So if I can get a GREAT price on a DVD-3910 would I get an appreciable increase in audio quality over my current DVD-2910? I listen heavily to SACD and DVD-A. Have the Denon AVR-4306 and Rockets 760/200/300 with a dual 12" SVS sub.

Thanks,

Please keep discussion to the new players. There are 3910 and 2910 threads with plenty of info. (Unless 3910 was a typo and you meant 3930 :)).

larry

I've tried a forum search for the Denon 3910 and 2910 and keep coming up with some Kenwood hit...

I have waded through this entire thread looking for answers as to upgrading my 2910. The 3930 is a little over my buget...the closeout model isn't if the price is right. Maybe some kind sould could PM me their answer to my query...

Top right: Search this Thread->Advanded: Search string: 3910 Click titles only, display as threads, make sure only this forum is searched. 17 threads pop up with 3910 in title. Here's the main 3910 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=447795

larry

edit: I see you already found it. :)

I noticed in the 981 forum a discussion about SDTV and HDTV colorspace. My TV has a choice of STV/HDTV/AUTO. Which should it be set at if I am outputing 1080i RGB from my 3930?

I'd leave it on Auto unless it is obvious that it is wrong. I don't know what the "test" is to determine if the wrong color standard is being used.

larry

I posted this a few days back and think it somehow got buried in the thread. Does anybody know what is special about the s-video output on the 2930CI? I have cranked the mid-sharpness up to +4 and there is no edge enhancement even with the AVIA patterns. The picture is very close to HD -- and this is with s-video!

Now that my 2930 is region-free I was able to remove my previous region-free work horse from the rack. Since I had a spare s-video input on my TV I decided to connect it to the 2930 . Last night while getting bored watching Spiderman with my son I started switching to the s-video output for grins. I have this thing connected to a Loewe Aconda 38" direct view CRT which has fairly capable s-video input processing. It has this super video mode that makes foreground objects appear to glide across the display. What blew me away was that after some minor tweaking the details, colors and 3-dimensional were close to what I was getting with a 480p component analog signal.Sure the 2930 de-interlacer was smoother with faster motion, but the TV's de-interlacer did it's magic with slower motion, pans and zooms.

The acid test was when my wife commented on the improvement in video quality. This doesn't seem to be my imagination. This made absolutely no sense to me. I read in the Denon literature that a lot of careful design went into the video DAC sections, but this was couldn't explain it all. I started wondering if there was some way that the s-video signal could benefit from the Silicon Optix Reon-VX processing. I remember reading somewhere about a Denon player de-interlacing, processing and re-interlacing a signal for 480i output. At the time, it didn't make much sense, but now I wonder.

Has anybody else had a similar experience or have any kind of explanation for the s-video quality? I know that many Loewe owners swear by s-video with that TV. I need to play with this some more, but if it all works out I will have a spare set of 1080i capable component inputs on my TV that I can use for playing with a HD DVD or Blu-ray player. Since my receiver has a 2-way component switcher I could even consider one of each. This is a big deal for me since the Aconda does not easily switch between 480i, 480p and 1080i modes.

maybe I missed it earlier, but what does the "CI" (custom integration) refer to on the DVD-3930CI?

maybe I missed it earlier, but what does the "CI" (custom integration) refer to on the DVD-3930CI?
The data sheets lists:

- RS232 command control
- remote in/out commnad control
- discrete on/off button
- 480i capable for HDMI

BTW, looks like this player is really "hot" right now. One popular local "boutique" outlet (The Sound Factor) say's everyone is raving about this unit, and that many retailers have quantities back-ordered. Apparently Denon can not keep up with demand at the moment.

I've been waiting over a month for mine from my local Denon dealer. Supposedly, they are supposed to get one in the next week. Literally one. And it's mine. :)