I'm kind of seeing the same "white-ish" look, though the component output looks sharper than HDMI.

s2silber - what HDMI setting are you using with your Sony?

BTW - thanks for your're help. Your exactly right - thank goodness for this forum. It's helped me many times.

...The HDMI picture has better resolution, however, it exhibits sort of a white "haze" over-all. While the component-video picture exhibits very "rich" color, very nice to the eye, although resolution is slightly less (especially on close-up's, skin texture is just not as fine as HDMI). I'm using "The Break-Up" DVD-Movie to test.

Why does the HDMI picture have a more "white-ish" look (and maybe slightly "fuzzy"), while the component-video picture has a nice "richer" look to the overall balance (maybe slightly less resolution though)?


I noticed this too when I had the 2930. 720p and 1080i both had this whitish / hazy / softer look to it than 480p. I noticed that both HDMI and component 480p had a much more colorful look to it, without the haze. But, 480p is also darker and, like you said, fine detail is somewhat lost (maybe that's because it's darker).

It's like that on the 3910 I just bought too. I can't watch it in anything other than 480p for both the "haze" mentioned above and the fact that at 720p or 1080i, with my display I get horrible jaggies (looks just like CUE).

I'm kind of seeing the same "white-ish" look, though the component output looks sharper than HDMI.

s2silber - what HDMI setting are you using with your Sony?

BTW - thanks for your're help. Your exactly right - thank goodness for this forum. It's helped me many times.
I've flipped through the formats several times without noticing a great deal of detectable difference, but I've settled on HDMI YbCbCr@1080i. Also, I don't know what this "whitish haze" is that's being mentioned here. Noting like that on my display.

I'm kind of seeing the same "white-ish" look, though the component output looks sharper than HDMI.exactly, component-video output seems sharper than HDMI. But when you notice carefully on close-up scene's you can actually see more detail with HDMI (1080i, etc.,...), although the over-all picture looks "white-ish" and almost "fuzzy", or non-sharp looking (best way I can describe it).


I noticed this too when I had the 2930. 720p and 1080i both had this whitish / hazy / softer look to it than 480p. I noticed that both HDMI and component 480p had a much more colorful look to it, without the haze. But, 480p is also darker and, like you said, fine detail is somewhat lost (maybe that's because it's darker).
yes, exactly.


I've flipped through the formats several times without noticing a great deal of detectable difference, but I've settled on HDMI YbCbCr@1080i. Also, I don't know what this "whitish haze" is that's being mentioned here. Noting like that on my display.I'm beggining to think this "white-ish" haze may be related to the display or TV itself.

Or is it characteristic of HDMI-to-DVI type configurations? My HP-LC2640N LCD TV is like "first-generation" HDTV technology (released in 2004), it has DVI, component-video, s-video and composite-video input's. Although the picture-quality is awesome with component-video (480p, 720p, 1080i).

s2silber, is your display an HDMI type TV? Are you using HDMI-to-HDMI connection?

I'm planning on getting a new 1080p LCD TV (with HDMI) later in the year. I figure you should start to see a whole new line of TV's in the coming months, with more competitive pricing.

I'm still debating whether to keep HDMI-to-DVI connected, or go with all component-video for now?

Have you guys calibrated your tv using your DVD player? The first thing i did after i got my 3930ci was to set it up and to calibrate my Panasonic TH-42px50u with Avia. I have the 3930ci set to hdmi YbCbCr 720p. I also have a copy of get gray but for me Avia is much better. My color and picture are very sharp, clear and the color is very rich. None of the problems you guys are seeing.

Have you guys calibrated your tv using your DVD player? The first thing i did after i got my 3930ci was to set it up and to calibrate my Panasonic TH-42px50u with Avia.I wonder if this will help? I'll gladly purchase Avia if it helps with the characteristics we're seeing.

Did you test your set-up before you calibrated?

Yes i did and i saw a little of what you see. Before i calibrated my tv with my 3930ci. i wanted to warm up my tv for 20min Before i calibrated (played a dvd). The interesting thing was that the calibration using my Denon 756s was different than the calibrations using my Denon 3930ci but both of the DVD players where hooked up the same way with the same TV. Also note that i saw a little difference in pq when i used a top of the line hdmi cable (1m long) and a average hdmi cable (2m long)

s2silber, is your display an HDMI type TV? Are you using HDMI-to-HDMI connection?

I'm planning on getting a new 1080p LCD TV (with HDMI) later in the year. I figure you should start to see a whole new line of TV's in the coming months, with more competitive pricing.

I'm still debating whether to keep HDMI-to-DVI connected, or go with all component-video for now?
My TV, the Sony Grand Wega III, has a DVI input which I use with an HDMI-DVI cable. Works without any problem with the 3930CI through a Denon AVR with HDMI input and output.

Yes i did and i saw a little of what you see. Before i calibrated my tv with my 3930ci.hmmm, that's interesting. I may go for Avia and try it out (it would'nt hurt to have it regardless).


Also note that i saw a little difference in pq when i used a top of the line hdmi cable (1m long) and a average hdmi cable (2m long)I'm using a Monster Ultra-THX HDMI-to-DVI cable (2m long). It should be pretty good quality, and not too long (I guess).

My TV, the Sony Grand Wega III, has a DVI input which I use with an HDMI-DVI cable. Works without any problem with the 3930CI through a Denon AVR with HDMI input and output.thanks! that's good to know.

I've noticed this "white-ish" haze even via-cable-box output (480p and1080i broadcast's), through Yamaha RX-V1600, to TV, as well. So, I guess this say's that it's probably something related to the TV, or DVI connection?

I have been using component on my 65" Panny for the last 5 years.Hey Bob, you have any experience with "white-ish" haze using HDMI-to-DVI connections (or even HDMI-to-HDMI)?

Yes i did and i saw a little of what you see. Before i calibrated my tv with my 3930ci. i wanted to warm up my tv for 20min Before i calibrated (played a dvd). The interesting thing was that the calibration using my Denon 756s was different than the calibrations using my Denon 3930ci but both of the DVD players where hooked up the same way with the same TV. Also note that i saw a little difference in pq when i used a top of the line hdmi cable (1m long) and a average hdmi cable (2m long)


An observation I had relative to the 3930 when I first got it was that the in the "picture adjust" menu the "setup level" was defaulted to 7.5 and that it was applied for 720p and 1080i output modes (which I thought was incorrect). This was inconsistant with my other 720/1080 sources and resulted in a washed out look from the 3930 until I changed the "setup level" setting to 0. Then the tv ssettings for the 3930 were essentially the same as my other sources. Not sure if this washed out effect is the same as the "hazy" look that some others are reporting. Might be worth a look though.


edit: This is occurring on the HDMI output. I haven't looked at the component output.

An observation I had relative to the 3930 when I first got it was that the in the "picture adjust" menu the "setup level" was defaulted to 7.5 and that it was applied for 720p and 1080i output modes (which I thought was incorrect). This was inconsistant with my other 720/1080 sources and resulted in a washed out look from the 3930 until I changed the "setup level" setting to 0. Then the tv ssettings for the 3930 were essentially the same as my other sources. Not sure if this washed out effect is the same as the "hazy" look that some others are reporting. Might be worth a look though.

Thats very interesting. Thanks for comment. I didn't know that the 3930 defaulted to 7.5 and that could explain the changes in the calibration with Avia. I will try this later tonight and report back. However i do not get a "washed out effect" but i was wondering why i had to set the contrast (picture) setting higher than what it used to be set at.

An observation I had relative to the 3930 when I first got it was that the in the "picture adjust" menu the "setup level" was defaulted to 7.5 and that it was applied for 720p and 1080i output modes (which I thought was incorrect). This was inconsistant with my other 720/1080 sources and resulted in a washed out look from the 3930 until I changed the "setup level" setting to 0. Then the tv ssettings for the 3930 were essentially the same as my other sources. Not sure if this washed out effect is the same as the "hazy" look that some others are reporting. Might be worth a look though.thanks! what is meant by "7.5" in set-up level? I will definitely look into this myself.

Setup level has nothing to do with a digital video stream. It's meaningful for analog only. One of the settings for it is wrong if it changes the video when using digital out.

larry

Setup level has nothing to do with a digital video stream. It's meaningful for analog only. One of the settings for it is wrong if it changes the video when using digital out.

larry


This was my understanding as well, but the "setup level" is affecting the digital output over HDMI . I was thinking it is a bug.

thanks! what is meant by "7.5" in set-up level? I will definitely look into this myself.


The 7.5 is an IRE value that represents a signal voltage level. The setting in the player relates to what analog voltage level represents black. With analog 480i, most (all?) tvs expect the black reference to be ouptut the voltage represented as 7.5 IRE. With the small handful of TVs and DVD players that I've owned, my experience is that 480i over analog is the only combination that should be outputing black at 7.5 IRE and is not applied for the other resolutions over component and should not be relevent to the digital output.

On a side note, I do find it odd that Denon put this control in the picture adjust funtion vs the basic video setup menu. I didn't find it at first when I was setting up the player.

Have you guys calibrated your tv using your DVD player? The first thing i did after i got my 3930ci was to set it up and to calibrate my Panasonic TH-42px50u with Avia. I have the 3930ci set to hdmi YbCbCr 720p. I also have a copy of get gray but for me Avia is much better. My color and picture are very sharp, clear and the color is very rich. None of the problems you guys are seeing.

Yes, I calibrated (using DVE). There is DEFINITELY a different "haze" to the scaled images vs the 480p images. It does bring out some detail, but there are other problems it generates with my display (I swear I see CUE at 720p and 1080i with my JVC HD-ILA, though that may not be actually what it is. It sure looks like it).

I have the 3910, so I maybe should be posting in this thread, but before I had to send back the 2930 I noticed the exact same problems, so I think it's relevant here.

Yes, I calibrated (using DVE). There is DEFINITELY a different "haze" to the scaled images vs the 480p images.
before I had to send back the 2930 I noticed the exact same problems, so I think it's relevant here.you mean you were experiencing this white-ish "haze"?

Thanks to everyone in this thread, I contacted Denon Canada and asked them if there was a update for the 3930CI. After giving them my serial number they will be sending out an update CD for my 3930CI. This CD appartently fixes some disc compatability issues. Anyone else get their update?

The 7.5 is an IRE value that represents a signal voltage level. The setting in the player relates to what analog voltage level represents black. With analog 480i, most (all?) tvs expect the black reference to be ouptut the voltage represented as 7.5 IRE. With the small handful of TVs and DVD players that I've owned, my experience is that 480i over analog is the only combination that should be outputing black at 7.5 IRE and is not applied for the other resolutions over component and should not be relevent to the digital output.

On a side note, I do find it odd that Denon put this control in the picture adjust funtion vs the basic video setup menu. I didn't find it at first when I was setting up the player.

After i changed 7.5 IRE to 0 and recalibrated with Avia the picture was darker with more detail however in the dark shadow scenes i lost a little of the detail. So then i went into setup, digital interface, HDMI auto format and changed the setting to max res. Then on the remote under HDMI i changed the settings to ycbcr, 720P. Now the dark shadow scenes are much brighter and the back ground is much more detailed. Wow this dvd player just keeps getting better.

I contacted Denon Canada and asked them if there was a update for the 3930CI.how did you contact them by e-mail, or phone?

Wow this dvd player just keeps getting better.I forget, are you using an HDMI-to-DVI, or HDMI-to-HDMI connection? Is going through an AV reciever, or is it direct from DVD player to TV?

This was my understanding as well, but the "setup level" is affecting the digital output over HDMI . I was thinking it is a bug.In this case, some players convert to PC video levels when digital output is being used and, if so, hopefully are doing the correct thing on analog output.

larry

some players convert to PC video levels when digital output is being usedI'm thinking this may be related to the white "haze" problem some of us are experiencing- ie. the DVD-3930CI, at default, may [not] be converting to PC video levels when using HDMI-to-DVI connection, as a result, creating the white "haze" condition. Video level settings may not be properly set or compensated for. Re-setting the IRE value to 0 may correct, or compensate for this?

Many (few year older) displays, with DVI input, convert to "PC" mode when using DVI input. I know my HP (LC2640N) LCD TV goes into PC mode when I switch to DVI input. So I believe the video levels are obviously converted.

hmmmmm...............

I forget, are you using an HDMI-to-DVI, or HDMI-to-HDMI connection? Is going through an AV reciever, or is it direct from DVD player to TV?

Im using HDMI-to-HDMI connection to the TV from my 3930ci. Im using a optical cable to my AV amp from my 3930ci.

Hi WestCoastD. I contacted Denon Canada by e-mail. The next day they said the CD was in the mail. Haven't gotton it yet. I'll let you know when I get it.

In this case, some players convert to PC video levels when digital output is being used and, if so, hopefully are doing the correct thing on analog output.

larry
FYI, There is a separate setting in the video setup to select RGB levels :"HDMI RBG SETTING" normal (16-235) vs enhanced (0-246). Manual states this has no effect when outputing HMDI YCbCr. I can't remember if I confirmed that last or not.

I'm thinking this may be related to the white "haze" problem some of us are experiencing- ie. the DVD-3930CI, at default, may [not] be converting to PC video levels when using HDMI-to-DVI connection, as a result, creating the white "haze" condition. Video level settings may not be properly set or compensated for. Re-setting the IRE value to 0 may correct, or compensate for this?

Many (few year older) displays, with DVI input, convert to "PC" mode when using DVI input. I know my HP (LC2640N) LCD TV goes into PC mode when I switch to DVI input. So I believe the video levels are obviously converted.

hmmmmm...............


Relative to the PC video levels see my previous post above about the HDMI RGB Setting. You DVI guys may want to try that to see if it makes a difference. Cant' remember: PC levels are 0 - 246 ? (Also would suggest setep at 0 IRE which is a separate issue)

see my previous post above about the HDMI RGB Setting. You DVI guys may want to try that to see if it makes a difference. Cant' remember: PC levels are 0 - 246 ? (Also would suggest setep at 0 IRE which is a separate issue)interesting, thanks! I'll check it out and get back to you.

The PC range is 0-255, black->reference white. For "real" (studio) video, the range for Y in YCbCr is 1-254 with 16-235 being black->reference white. I would assume that to be true for RGB also where black is (16,16,16). The only possible reason that having a setting for PC RGB that makes sense is for connecting to a PC monitor that expects PC RGB. These newer players support some extra PC resolutions, e.g 1024x768, yes? I guess there are probably are PC monitors now that can synch on HDTV resolutions also except for 1080i - if they do, then they're not really "monitors".

larry

you mean you were experiencing this white-ish "haze"?

Absolutely, I was. Via a HDMI to HDMI connection. any "scaled" image I fed to my TV was "hazier" than the 480p signal. I also see CUE (but I suspect thats an incompatability with my TV). I aslo see more shadow detail too.

Not sure what's happening when the image is scaled, but something is.

... These newer players support some extra PC resolutions, e.g 1024x768, yes? ....
larry

You are correct. On the 3930, rez's outputed at 60Hz:
640x480
1024x768
1280x768
1280x1024

Hello folks. I've been coming to this site for a while now and well it's quite rare that I post anything because the knowledge and advice around here is really good and far greater than I will ever muster. However this is 1 of those rare instances that I felt compelled to make a small comment. I've had my Oppo 971 dvd player for the better part of 1.5 yrs. The other week it started to glitch out on ocassion. It's been getting more pronounced lately. I've been seriously contemplating returning it to Oppo for service but I'm not sure whether this would be worthwhile so before I make a final decision I called up my fav AV shop and explained my dilemna to my sales rep. So after a lengthy conversation he offered me up 1 of these gems as a trial for a week ..... well I decided to take his offer. This was Friday morning past. Friday night I hooked up this beast of a gem and I must say with very little setup right out of the box (practically) I wasn't so impressed with the image quality as compared to the Oppo 971. I was immediately impressed with the sound quaility (wow!!!). Saturday morning I got up real early and went through all 68 pages worth right here on this forum and then the dreaded owner's manual. By early afternoon I was armed and ready for a more intense calibration session as I really wanted to give this player a fair chance at proving itself. Well, about an hour or so later going through most but not all the way through the Avia disc I wanted to see first hand if my effort had yeilded any results. So I put in a DVD (Pirates ...pt2). Well I was mesmerized by the difference. This is 1 serious piece of hardware. My calibration session was over for the time being and we spent the rest of the day and well into the night watching 1 dvd after the other. It's safe to say that we all fell in love with this player and it's a keeper. So the Oppo will be relegated to the scrap heep and the Denon will rule the HT for a long long time to come. I would like to thank everyone on this forum for the useful and first hand info available. Keep it up. :D ;) Till next time.

about an hour or so later going through most but not all the way through the Avia disc I wanted to see first hand if my effort had yeilded any results. I was mesmerized by the difference. This is 1 serious piece of hardware..your absolutely right! This is one bad-ass machine! I actually bought it primarily for it's high-end audio quality (SACD, DVD-A, CD). Now I'm beginning to discover the power of it's video output capabilities.

I'm new to most of the popular calibration software products. Which of the Avia software, that most refer to here, are you using? the "Guide to Home Theater" ($49.99), or "Avia Pro" ($400.00) .

your absolutely right! This is one bad-ass machine! I actually bought it primarily for it's high-end audio quality (SACD, DVD-A, CD). Now I'm beginning to discover the power of it's video output capabilities.

I'm new to most of the popular calibration software products. Which of the Avia software, that most refer to here, are you using? the "Guide to Home Theater" ($49.99), or "Avia Pro" ($400.00) .

I use the "Guide to Home Theater" Avia. Also i use GetGray ( $25.00 or more donation) You can find GetGray on this forum. In my way of thinking if im going to spend $400.00 i would rather pay that amount of money to a pro and have them set up my TV.

For video, once you know what to do, GetGray is problaby the best of the "affordable" discs - DVE, Avia, and GetGray. With GetGray you can also get PAL version to make sure region free or non-region 1 players keep up to snuff. :)

larry

For video, once you know what to do, GetGray is problaby the best of the "affordable" discs - DVE, Avia, and GetGray. With GetGray you can also get PAL version to make sure region free or non-region 1 players keep up to snuffappreciate the info!

your absolutely right! This is one bad-ass machine! I actually bought it primarily for it's high-end audio quality (SACD, DVD-A, CD). Now I'm beginning to discover the power of it's video output capabilities.

I'm new to most of the popular calibration software products. Which of the Avia software, that most refer to here, are you using? the "Guide to Home Theater" ($49.99), or "Avia Pro" ($400.00) .
:) I used The Avia Giude to Home Theater. Works great every time. I also own and use the DVE disc. They both work great.

Don't forget that Avia and DVE have turtorials and audio calibration.

larry

Why the 3930 player does not change color system automatically? After viewing disks recorded in NTCS the player stores it in memory and at following viewing a disk in PAL play it in NTSC 60 Hz. For changing of color system it is necessary to switch it by button PAL/NTSC on the Remote control. The color system (TV Type) in the menu of 3930 set in Multi. 3930 has last firmware 8284-3.

RGB has 8 bit color. YCbCr from the new Denon players is 10 bit color. If your display works with 10 bits use YCbCr.

Thanks Geoff. I just got my 2930 and I have a Sharp 37 D90U. I went through my manual, but couldn't figure out if it's a 10 bit display. I imagine it is as it was just released last May.

By the way, running HDMI at 1080p to the Sharp, which accepts this and is its native resolution. I've been pretty knocked out. (Understatement....) I had a 1930ci for a few weeks and took it back and got this. The difference, as they say, is NOT subtle.

Also, perhaps because of all the super info in this forum, and having a previous Denon player, I had zero problems with set-up. Really straight forward. So a big thanks to everyone on this forum.

By the way, I've been pretty impressed with the audio side of this player enough so that I may move it for a couple of days into the living room system which consists of Thiel 2.4 speakers, Jeff Rowland pre and power amp, Meridian 500 series CD combo, Sony ES SACD player and the true pride of place in my system, the VPI Scoutmaster turntable with Lyra Argo cartrige (VPI/Lyra is the true reference source for me) and report back to you guys. (Nordost cables throughout...) The audio comments on this forum have been GREAT and it's wonderful to see so many folks into SACD and higher quality audio.

Rob

Is anyone with a 2930 using with a 1080p display?

I am curious if it does 1:1 pixel mapping, i.e. no cropping on any sides.

Hi Sam,
As per my last post, I'm using a Sharp 37D90U 1080p via HDMI at 1080p and I have the 1:1 (dot by dot) enabeld and it's perfect. I think that it's more to do with the Sharp than the Denon, as I use it with all my HD viewing, football, etc. and there is never any overscan.

Cheers

Why the 3930 player does not change color system automatically? After viewing disks recorded in NTCS the player stores it in memory and at following viewing a disk in PAL play it in NTSC 60 Hz. For changing of color system it is necessary to switch it by button PAL/NTSC on the Remote control. The color system (TV Type) in the menu of 3930 set in Multi. 3930 has last firmware 8284-3. Do you want to output PAL at 50hz? Some people may not have a 50hz capable display so conversion to 60hz (yuck) is done.

larry

Is anyone aware of a firmware upgrade for the 2930 ?

Do you want to output PAL at 50hz? Some people may not have a 50hz capable display so conversion to 60hz (yuck) is done.

larry
Thanks Larry but I am from Russia. We have here Secam/Pal 50 Hz system a TV broadcasting but TV sets on sale at us can receive NTSC signals on a video input without transformation of a signal frequency. In my collection most of all disks in PAL and the others in NTSC. To instructions on page 20 it is written: Select Multi if the connected TV is of both the NTSC and PAL types. And if I correctly understand, the player should recognize automatically colour system in which the disk is recorded and to put this signal on the TV set.

Seems like it should automatically output 50hz signals for PAL and 60hz for NTSC. If it doesn't, then there's not much you can do but set it manually. That's a lot better than only having one type output and have to convert one of the formats to the other.

larry

Is anyone aware of a firmware upgrade for the 2930 ?There is a link to Denon Germany's site earlier in this thread, at which you will find updates for the 2930, albeit presumably the Euro version. Since you appear to be in the USA, I assume you want an update for the 2930CI North American version. I'd be hesitant to apply the German update to your machine.

Someone else, earlier in this thread, reported that Denon Canada sent him an update CD for his 3930CI upon request. I'd suggest you contact Denon USA and ask them to send you the latest update for your machine.

Thank you VideoFreek. I definitely don't want to update with the German firmware. I'll call as suggested...just thought 'd check with the forum first.

Thank you VideoFreek. I definitely don't want to update with the German firmware. I'll call as suggested...just thought 'd check with the forum first.


It's indeed a German Denon Support Site.


ALL FIRMWARE POSTED THERE ARE supossed to EUROPE MODELS and They Are ALL In ENGLISH.

Only pdf file's and instuction file's are there in german but never the firmware's.

Sometimes there's a firmware for all units over the whole world posted.

But remember Flashing by Your Self all over the world is at your own risk at all country's.

If you go wrong with that No Warranty.
Only if Denon Service Center is doing the flash for you, you got warrenty on that part.

Link Denon Firmware's Europe,

http://firmware.denon-online.eu/

For all Europe customers who do not have a good serial for upgrade your DVD-3930 and want the newest firmware for this unit.

Chose model dvd-3930

Colour: Silver

Use Serial: 6088400299


now u2 can get the firmware for this unit.

US people i don't know if you can use this one.
if you try this is than your own risk.

Dutchman01, can you tell us in your own words what improvements the version 3 software for the DVD 3930 made?

Dutchman01, can you tell us in your own words what improvements the version 3 software for the DVD 3930 made?


I did have a vew cd's that did not play at all in my 3930.
Now with this firmware upgrade the player does have a bigger tolerance of faulty cd's.
And those bad cd's are now playing without problems.

Anybody know whether the 3930 might be upgraded to HDMI 1.3 with a firmware update? Or would it be impossible without a hardware change?

The hardware would need be changed.

I've finally started using my DVD-3930CI today for 3 or 4 hours playing music sources- ie. SACD's, CD's. In-between I would switch my Yamaha receiver from DVD back to DTV to watch the SuperBowl in HD. I noticed the DVD-3930CI get's pretty heated-up, even while in "idle" mode.

Anybody know whether the 3930 might be upgraded to HDMI 1.3 with a firmware update? Or would it be impossible without a hardware change?
Why would you need HDMI 1.3 on the 3930? Dolby Digital HD and the other high resolution audio and video formats, with the exception of SACD and DVD-A, can't be ready anyway by this player.

For a SD DVD player the only feature in HDMI 1.3 that could be useful the "audio sync" feature. The HDMI target can report how much of a delay is causes to process audio. Or in other words how much a delay should be applied to the video. If you don't use HDMI audio, then there's nothing useful. :)

larry

With HDMI 1.3 you could potentially have multi-channel sacd audio sent via hdmi to be decoded in a pre/pro just like dvd-audio is now. Would only be worth it if you had a pre/pro with high-end aspirations such as the Anthem D2. That's actually what I am waiting for hoping that I can finally listen to multi-channel sacds without a six-pack of cables going to the pre-pro. Right now the Oppo is the only one to allow that by converting the dsd to pcm and sending it over hdmi.

HDMI 1.2 will transmit SACD, too. As PooperScooper verified, there really is no distinct advantage to making this or any SD player HDMI 1.3 compatible.

I've been experimenting with various music sources on the 3930CI (ie. SACD, DVD-A, and CD). I notice, while everything sounds good, the gain levels vary greatly between regular CD sources (in 2-chan analog mode) compared to multi-channel sources (in 5.1chan analog). Typically I'm seeing regular CD's play well approx. -25db to -19db, while most SACD's and DVD-A's are set approx. @ -14db to like -06db to match same listening level. Is this normal? should I be adjusting the speaker level trims (in the menu)?

If the 3930 has separate 2ch outputs for 2ch "mode" (any source) then they are usually not processed for BM etc. In fact, sometimes they are a completely different circuit path that is usually better than the L/R of the 5.1 outputs. This is all player dependent. So, you may be comparing apples to oranges no matter what you do. If there are not 2 separate L/R outputs besides the 5.1 outputs forget what I just said and carry on... :) Also, I think to level the playing field as best as possible you need to make sure the 5.1 outputs are in "direct" mode - no processing after decode of source.

larry

If the 3930 has separate 2ch outputs for 2ch "mode" (any source) then they are usually not processed for BM etc. In fact, sometimes they are a completely different circuit path.yeah, the DVD-3930CI does have separate 2ch (analog), 5.1ch (analog multi-channel), and digital-coax output's. and I'm pretty sure the 2ch outputs follow a separate discrete path from the 5.1ch front channels. I'm purposely using all connections for optimization of audio capability.

When I play a regular (redbook) CD music source I go into the "audio" menu and set audio channel = 2chan (Vss OFF). Very nice listening output approx. -26dB to -19dB (on Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver).

When I play an SACD or DVD-A I go into "audio" menu and set audio channel = 5.1 multi-channel (as well as set speaker-size accordingly). Very nice listening output approx. -18dB to -09dB (on Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver).

I noticed there are "speaker-level" settings in the audio-channel menu for each channel, I just have'nt played around with these yet.


you need to make sure the 5.1 outputs are in "direct" mode - no processing after decode of source.yeah, this is another area that I need to understand better- in terms of configuration and enabling. The manual is a little confusing in regards to configuration of source direct modes. Right now I've been using default (source direct "OFF") and set my Yamaha receiver for "pure" mode (no video or audio processing).

This sucker really gets hot too!

Thanks for your input.

HDMI 1.2 will transmit SACD, too. As PooperScooper verified, there really is no distinct advantage to making this or any SD player HDMI 1.3 compatible.

Yeah that's true...not that it's been implemented anywhere either AFAIK

Very few players have HDMI 1.2. At the moment I can't name any. I think most people who do more audio get players for the DACs and use analog output. And then there's i.Link and even DenonLink which has more support that 1.2.

larry

I think to level the playing field as best as possible you need to make sure the 5.1 outputs are in "direct" mode - no processing after decode of source.yeah, after reading manual a little more I'm beggining to understand Denon's "source direct" concept for bass management a little better:

The AUDIO SETUP menu, SOURCE DIRECT selection has settings for "OFF", "50kHz", "100kHz".

The way I understand here is if you select SOURCE DIRECT = "OFF", then you use built-in bass management, and you access "speaker setup" menu to select speaker size, sub ("ON" or "OFF") and cross-over frequency value.

If you select SOURCE DIRECT = "50Khz", then the full-range audio signal is directed to all channels (not greater than 50kHz)?

If you select SOURCE DIRECT = "100Khz", then the full-range audio signal is directed to all channels (up to 100kHz range)? Also,manual states that if speakers/amplifiers are not capable with high-frequencies that damage could result (scary).

I tried all 3 settings with SACD sources (hope I did'nt hurt my Energy RC-Series speakers or NAD amps), did'nt notice major difference in output.

Interesting. Usually "direct" means to decode, DAC, and output. Is there any other option that sounds like this?

larry

Interesting. Usually "direct" means to decode, DAC, and output. Is there any other option that sounds like this? yeah, I'm thinking SOURCE DIRECT = "OFF" is most appropriate. This is equivalent to more "conventional" on-board bass-management. I sounds pretty good.

However, I will re-visit these modes later once I thoroughly understand what's optimal. The writing in this manual is poor.

For regular CD music (redbook) sources I return to AUDIO MENU, and set AUDIO CHANNEL = "2CH(VSS OFF)"; then set DIGITAL OUTPUT = "PCM". I go to my Yamaha receiver and switch to "CD" input source (2chan analog connection from DVD-3930CI). Sounds very good.

As I mentioned previously noticeable difference in gain level from multi-channel and 2chan mode- ie. approx. -29dB to -22dB range for 2chan, while multi-chan approx. -21dB to -09dB. You may be right that since these are both separate discrete "paths" it may be like comparing "apples & oranges".

This player sounds very nice, I'm impressed! Although I have to admit the ($200.00) Sony DVP-NS90V that this (DVD-39230CI) replaced was pretty impressive sounding as well (to be honest it's hard to tell the difference so far).
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_DVD_DVDPlayers&ProductSKU=DVPNS90V&Dept=tvvideo&INT=sstyle-hav_DVD-deptfeature-DVPNS90V|sstyle:sy_cat_content_p:hav_dvd

Okay, now I think I understand it correctly- page 24, manual (quote):
"When (source direct) set to '50kHz' or '100kHz', you can enjoy the DTS recommended full range all-channel sound. (Note however that the subwoofer volume increases by 5db, or by 15dB for Super Audio CDs.) In Addition, the 6-channel sources of DVD-Audio discs recorded in the all-channel full range frequency model can also be played. In this case, make analog connections as described in the disc's instructions."

Also, on page 23 it mentions (quote):
"set to '50kHz' if the amplifier or speakers is/are not compatible with the high frequencies, '100kHz' if it/they are. (For sources other than Super Audio CD's, the disc's audio information is output as such, regardless of whether this is set to '50kHz' or '100kHz'.)"

You see what I'm referring to when I mention "poorly" written?

Anyway, it looks like if I re-set source direct = "50kHz" everything should play okay (frequency-wise) and I may yield some additional playback gain (dB) output?

Does anybody know when there will be 3930 silver premium units avaliable for europe? I have been waiting for mine since October, and Spanish distributor (Gaplasa), says that still haven't scheduled date from denon europe for delivering silver premiums 3930.

Don't know who ask to.

cheers

juan

Okay, I think I [really] have it figured out now. I'm using "source direct" enabled on the Denon DVD-3930CI, in multi-channel mode this time, and I notice a significant increase in gain (nearly equivalent to 2chan mode). And I'm reverting bass-management over to my Yamaha receiver. This way a more full-range signal is invoked by the 3930CI and sent to the pre-pro (or reciever).

First, I went into DVD-3930CI AUDIO menu and set AUDIO CHANNEL for "MULTI CHANNEL", then at "SPEAKER CONFIGURATION" I set all speakers = "LARGE". I don't touch "CHANNEL LEVEL" or "DELAY TIME".

Second, I scroll down to DIGITAL OUTPUT and set = "PCM".

Third, I scroll down to SOURCE DIRECT and set = ""50kHz" (to be safe on speakers/amplifiers).

Forth, I go into Yamaha receiver SPEAKER SETUP and set FRONT's = "LARGE" (no sub-woofer), CENTER = "SMALL", REAR SURROUND's = "SMALL", also set LFE = "80Hz".

When playing SACD's output is beautifully balanced, good listening level's approx. between -28dB and -22dB now (as with 2chan mode).

Does anyone know if WestCoastD's settings would this be applicable to Denon AVR's, such as the '3806, for which the only bass management options you have when using analogue inputs (Ext. In) are LFE boosts ranging from 5db to 15db? Or are there other bass management going on with Denon AVR's when using the analogue multi-channel inputs that I don't realize?

Does anyone know if WestCoastD's settings would this be applicable to Denon AVR's, such as the '3806, for which the only bass management options you have when using analogue inputs (Ext. In) are LFE boosts ranging from 5db to 15db? Or are there other bass management going on with Denon AVR's when using the analogue multi-channel inputs that I don't realize?


Give this thread a read: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147&page=1&pp=30


My guess on a 3930 with 3806 combination over analog is that it depends on the setting of the Direct mode in the 3930. (I use the denonlink for multichannel sources with that combination, so I don't have experience with the mutlichannel analog configuration.) I would think if the DVD player is on direct = off the AVR should be set for 15db LFE boost. If the DVD player is on 50 or 100kHz direct, then the AVR should be at 0 dB LFE boost.

Question for the 3930 owners that are listening to 2 channel audio over analog: Have you noticed a difference in frequency response between using the 5.1 LR vs the 2 channel outputs? I originally went with 2 channel outputs but the top end seemed slightly muted compared with the 5.1 LR connection. Didn't really expect to be able to hear much of a difference.

I've tried comparing those two options, playing different types of music, quite a few times . I can't say anything definitive about frequency response, but I do find the two-channel outputs to be more transparent and rich. Could that be due to the Advanced AL24 processing?

Hmm, I had assumed that the Advanced AL24 processing was in action for both the 5.1 and 2 channel outputs.


It's interesting that you felt that the 2 channel outputs sounded different. Originally I felt that they had a "warmer" sound (same as your "rich"? lol) with more clarity. Most of my initial listening was with my personal favorite reference discs which tended to be on the "bright" side. Then I tried a few discs with somewhat lacking high end and felt that they sounded less clear on the 2 channel outputs, leading to my guess that there mihgt be a slight difference in high frequency response between the 2 channel and 5.1LR outputs.

You could be right; this is all so subjective. However, more than six months before the '3930 came out, when I was considering the '3910, a senior product guy at Denon recommended that I wait for the '3930 because there would be significant improvements to the two-channel analogue output. You may also be correct about the Advanced AL24 processing being applied to the EXT. Outs, too.

Has anyone heard anything about the availability of the product in the US? I have been waiting for one since November. My local Denon dealer doesn't get much useful information from the West Coast distributor (last word was they were supposed to be available by the end of January). I looked on Crutchfield (out of curiousity) and saw that the product was out of stock with no estimate of availability. I'm sure I could find a unit somewhere online, but I prefer the benefits of buying locally.

You may also be correct about the Advanced AL24 processing being applied to the EXT. Outs, too.I believe it is, the "AL24" indicator light is on when I'm playing SACD's (in "multi-channel" mode- using 5.1chan external outputs), as well as regular CD's (in 2ch mode- using 2ch analog outputs).

I notice this machine get pretty warm too (or I should say "hot").

Does anyone know if WestCoastD's settings would this be applicable to Denon AVR's, such as the '3806, for which the only bass management options you have when using analogue inputs (Ext. In) are LFE boosts ranging from 5db to 15db? Or are there other bass management going on with Denon AVR's when using the analogue multi-channel inputs that I don't realize?All of this has been somewhat confusing.

I was under the impression that with most typical AVR's bass-management was only applied to digital-audio input sources (ie. DolbyDigital, DTS, etc.,...), and [not] to the 5.1 external (multi-channel) analog inputs. I thought the 5.1 external inputs go straight thru pre-amp section, then to pre-out's?

However, it seems that when "source direct" is enabled on the DVD-3930CI the signal output is increased, or "full-range", for all channels, including sub-woofer. These full-range signals are sent to the pre-pro (or AVR) and "re-tweaked" by bass-management function as necessary.

I noticed my sub-woofer was active after I enabled source direct. So I went into the Yamaha speaker-setup menu and re-set fronts to "LARGE", center to "SMALL", rears to "SMALL", and subwoofer to "NO" (I prefer no sub for music). Also, set LFE = 80Hz. When I re-enabled play (using an SACD) the sub-woofer was disabled and the overall sound level was significantly louder and very nice. I was shocked!

Page 24 of the manual, left corner, states (quote):
"When set to "50kHz" or "100kHz", you can enjoy the DTS recommended full range all-channel sound. (Note however that the subwoofer volume increases by 5dB, or by 15dB for Super Audio CDs.) In addition, the 6-channel sources of DVD-Audio discs recorded in the all-channel full range frequency model can also be played. In this case, make analog connections as described in the disc's instructions."
Also states (quote):
"When setting "50kHz" or "100kHz", set all the speaker sizes to "LARGE" and the subwoofer to 'YES'."

Has anyone heard anything about the availability of the product in the US? I'm sure I could find a unit somewhere online, but I prefer the benefits of buying locally.
Depends. Where do you live?

All of this has been somewhat confusing.

I was under the impression that with most typical AVR's bass-management was only applied to digital-audio input sources (ie. DolbyDigital, DTS, etc.,...), and [not] to the 5.1 external (multi-channel) analog inputs. I thought the 5.1 external inputs go straight thru pre-amp section, then to pre-out's?

However, it seems that when "source direct" is enabled on the DVD-3930CI the signal output is increased, or "full-range", for all channels, including sub-woofer. These full-range signals are sent to the pre-pro (or AVR) and "re-tweaked" by bass-management function as necessary.

I noticed my sub-woofer was active after I enabled source direct. So I went into the Yamaha speaker-setup menu and re-set fronts to "LARGE", center to "SMALL", rears to "SMALL", and subwoofer to "NO" (I prefer no sub for music). Also, set LFE = 80Hz. When I re-enabled play (using an SACD) the sub-woofer was disabled and the overall sound level was significantly louder and very nice. I was shocked!

Page 24 of the manual, left corner, states (quote):
"When set to "50kHz" or "100kHz", you can enjoy the DTS recommended full range all-channel sound. (Note however that the subwoofer volume increases by 5dB, or by 15dB for Super Audio CDs.) In addition, the 6-channel sources of DVD-Audio discs recorded in the all-channel full range frequency model can also be played. In this case, make analog connections as described in the disc's instructions."
Also states (quote):
"When setting "50kHz" or "100kHz", set all the speaker sizes to "LARGE" and the subwoofer to 'YES'."
Yes, it is confusing! I happen to enjoy listening to music with the subwoofer set to "LFE and Main" but that's another discussion. What I still don't understand is how the Source Direct setting disables the subwoofer with the subwoofer still getting the boosts you describe. :confused:

Depends. Where do you live?

San Francisco. Are the 3930's more available in certain regions?

Seems they have been in relatively short supply since the model was released last fall. I waited a long time, myself. If you like, PM me and I'll give you a couple/few contacts at authorized dealers here in the metro NYC area who may be able to get you one fairly soon.

I happen to enjoy listening to music with the subwoofer set to "LFE and Main" but that's another discussion.yeah, as I explained above, once DVD-3930CI is set for "source direct" mode, then you can go into your receiver "speaker set-up" and choose bass configuration (or LFE) as desired- ie. you can select LFE/Bass OUT = "SWFR" or "FRONT" or "BOTH"; then set FRONT = "LARGE" or "SMALL", etc.,...(of course you would re-interpret this logic for a Denon receiver setup menu).

Once again, my particular speaker set-up (on my Yamaha receiver) is as such: LFE/Bass OUT = "FRONT"; FRONT SP = "LARGE", CENTER SP = "SMALL", SURROUND L/R SP = "SMALL". Consequently the full-range signal, and LFE, is directed to my fronts (sub is disabled), etc.,...


What I still don't understand is how the Source Direct setting disables the subwoofer with the subwoofer still getting the boosts you describe.the way I understand this is: "source direct" sends, or re-directs, full-range signal potential to [all] 5.1 analog ext. output channels (including subwoofer), the subwoofer channel is [not] disabled (as it terminates from DVD-3930CI and connects to your receiver or pre-pro). However, it's up to how [you] re-direct these full-range signals on the receiver (or pre-pro) side of things.

Also, noticed that "source direct" mode is disabled once you switch to, or select, 2ch mode.

Has anyone heard anything about the availability of the product in the US?I was at a local dealer (in the Pasadena area) like two days ago and they mentioned that the DVD-3930CI is back-ordered everywhere in the US. They were surprised to know that I already had one, as they have'nt actually received one unit yet. I'm glad I ordered my 3930CI just before christmas from Crutchfield.

I'm watching my first DVD-Movie on the DVD-3930CI tonight ("Syriana"), in DolbyDigital 5.1 .

So I went into 3930CI, AUDIO SETUP menu, set:
AUDIO CHANNEL = "MULTI CHANNEL"
DIGITAL OUTPUT = "NORMAL"
SOURCE DIRECT = "OFF"

This set-up directs 5.1 audio thru digital OUT (coax, in my case) to receiver (or pre-pro). Bass-management is handled by receiver.

DolbyDigital surround is very nice through my Yamaha RX-V1600 via-the DVD-3930CI. Also video is absolutely beautiful! I'm using component-video connection with "progessive" enabled.

This is such a nice machine!

Hi Folks,

How do I "Enable" the HDMI output button? I glanced through the menu, but cannot find a clear reference to do this.

I have the 2930 connected to my Fujitsu Plasma via an HDMI to DVI converter cable, and my screen is blank. When I press the HDMI Select button on the Remote, the DVD Player says "HDMI Off".

Thanks,

/Adil.

First, make sure that the input you're using for the player on your receiver is enabled for HDMI. Then, just punch through the HDMI format button for the resolution you want, e.g., RGB 720p, etc. Then select that format.

Thanks s2silber,

My DVD player is the Denon 2930 and my display is the Fujitsu 50HXA40US.

Here is what I have determined so far.

When I hook the two together via an HDMI - HDMI cable, the image on my display is absolutely fantastic.

However, since I typically use the HDMI input on my Plasma for watching Hi-Def cable, I wanted to use the DVI-D input on the plasma for watching DVDs.

So, now I have the HDMI output of the DVD player connected to the DVI-D input of the Plasma via an HDMI - DVI Monster cable. In this case, no matter what HDMI output I select, I can see the DVD image on the Fujitsu plasma, however, it flashes on and off every second or two. I am at a loss as to what might be causing this. I did a quick search and found that there are HDMI - DVI-D connector cables. Should I be using these instead of the HDMI - DVI converters?

Thanks,

/Adil.

From memory the Fujitsu DVI input is not HDCP compliant.
This could be the problem?

Have you tried the hi-def cable into the DVI and see what the result is?

^^^^ Depends on the model. If it's a P50 with 1 DVI input, it is HDCP compliant. Earlier 500x models were not. IIRC some newer models have HDMI and DVI. So the DVI input may not be HDCP compliant. HDMI always will be.

larry

I was at a local dealer (in the Pasadena area) like two days ago and they mentioned that the DVD-3930CI is back-ordered everywhere in the US. They were surprised to know that I already had one, as they have'nt actually received one unit yet. I'm glad I ordered my 3930CI just before christmas from Crutchfield.I waited months to get one and finally did get one in December. It worked for about one week. First the HDMI output crapped out. A few days later the Component outs crapped out. My dealer told me Denon authorized an advance replacement for me and that was right after Christmas. I still do not have a replacement. My dealer tells me Denon has not had many 3930's come into the country but those that are coming in are being sold and Denon does not have any available 3930's to replace defective units. It's pretty shoddy when a company sells every unit they get rather than take care existing owners whose unit has crapped out. So much for Denon, I'm not waiting any longer for them to make good on a busted unit. I've ordered a Marantz 9600 (which has better blacks and analog audio according to the dealer).

Very interesting. It's hard for me to understand how a company can have high demand for a product and not fulfill on it. I heard a rumor that part of the problem was caused by the PS3. Sony cornered the market on certain components used in DVD drives and other manufacturers have been struggling to get product out. When they do, lower-end units are first in line. I'm not sure if this is true at all, but it's what I've heard.

At any rate, I'm hoping that one will show up this month. In the meantime, maybe I'll check out the Marantz as well.

So much for Denon, I'm not waiting any longer for them to make good on a busted unit. I've ordered a Marantz 9600 (which has better blacks and analog audio according to the dealer).I would make an attempt to contact Denon-USA directly (eliminate the middle-man if you can), let them know your situation just to see what happens.

I've ordered a Marantz 9600 (which has better blacks and analog audio according to the dealer) For digital output there is no such thing as "better blacks". I could believe the analog audio my sound better to some people.

larry

Thanks s2silber,

My DVD player is the Denon 2930 and my display is the Fujitsu 50HXA40US.

Here is what I have determined so far.

When I hook the two together via an HDMI - HDMI cable, the image on my display is absolutely fantastic.

However, since I typically use the HDMI input on my Plasma for watching Hi-Def cable, I wanted to use the DVI-D input on the plasma for watching DVDs.

So, now I have the HDMI output of the DVD player connected to the DVI-D input of the Plasma via an HDMI - DVI Monster cable. In this case, no matter what HDMI output I select, I can see the DVD image on the Fujitsu plasma, however, it flashes on and off every second or two. I am at a loss as to what might be causing this. I did a quick search and found that there are HDMI - DVI-D connector cables. Should I be using these instead of the HDMI - DVI converters?

Thanks,

/Adil.
So, you're saying that by selecting an HDMI format you're now getting a picture, but that it goes in and out, or were you referring to the blinking HDMI light which is a normal thing? I can't answer your question authoritatively about whether an HDMI-DVI cable will work better than a converter (probably), but it's worth a try.

For digital output there is no such thing as "better blacks". I could believe the analog audio my sound better to some people.

larryAgreed. I think he must have been referring to the component outputs.

has anyone here done a comparison between the 2930 and the new toshiba xa2 or a2? im interested in getting the best possible sd upconversion, and a few on the hd-dvd forum commented that the toshiba bested the denon on sd video. can anyone confirm?

has anyone here done a comparison between the 2930 and the new toshiba xa2 or a2? im interested in getting the best possible sd upconversion, and a few on the hd-dvd forum commented that the toshiba bested the denon on sd video. can anyone confirm?

My Upconversion Ranking:

1. 3930
2. 2930
3. XA2
4. A2

The XA2 is very close to the 2930, but not quite as good.

If you want the best upconversion get an external scaler and a SDI output player.

My Upconversion Ranking:

1. 3930
2. 2930
3. XA2
4. A2

The XA2 is very close to the 2930, but not quite as good.

If you want the best upconversion get an external scaler and a SDI output player.How did you arrive at your conclusions? What did you use as criteria?

larry

How did you arrive at your conclusions? What did you use as criteria?

larry

Features and the performance I saw in dealerships, freind's systems and my home system. I generally use superbit versions of 5th Element and Laurence of Arabia as reference disks. The 3930ci won with just flat out smoother presentation than anything that didn't have the numbers 59 in the model name and the most flexible image manipulation and best chipset. The 2930 has the same chipset as the XA2 and ability to handle PAL, DSD which the XA2 doesn't, plus I think better control features.

The A2 is not in the same class as these players for upconverting DVD playback. It's a good player, but the 3930/2920/XA2 are a level above.

If you want very good DVD + HD-DVD get the XA2. If you want the best up converting DVD player under $1500 get the 3930ci.

I would make an attempt to contact Denon-USA directly (eliminate the middle-man if you can), let them know your situation just to see what happens.

I contacted Denon directly (via email). They were quick to respond, but said that there is no ETA on the availability of the 3930.

I'm going to see what my local dealer says tomorrow. Assuming this does not pan out, I will need to choose between buying the 3930 online (Denon pointed me to a vendor that still had one) or buying the Marantz 9600 locally.

My Upconversion Ranking:

1. 3930
2. 2930
3. XA2
4. A2

The XA2 is very close to the 2930, but not quite as good.

If you want the best upconversion get an external scaler and a SDI output player.

Did you by any chance compare these models for audio playback ? (music, not movies).

I will need to choose between buying the 3930 online (Denon pointed me to a vendor that still had one) or buying the Marantz 9600 locally.the Marantz 9600 does look like a very good player. It has I-Link (if you value having that connectivity), the Denon does'nt. I'm sure it performs well for audio.

I would have to hear both unit's connected to same electronics and speakers to really say which has better audio.

However, the Denon DVD-3930CI is one hell of a unit- audio & video. Also, is approx. $600.00 less retail than the Marantz. If I were able to actually purchase it right now I would probably opt for the Denon.

Good luck.

the Marantz 9600 does look like a very good player. It has I-Link (if you value having that connectivity), the Denon does'nt. I'm sure it performs well for audio.

I would have to hear both unit's connected to same electronics and speakers to really say which has better audio.

However, the Denon DVD-3930CI is one hell of a unit- audio & video. Also, is approx. $600.00 less retail than the Marantz. If I were able to actually purchase it right now I would probably opt for the Denon.

Good luck.Yes, the Denon looks to be a better player and costs less than the Marantz as well. It's too bad that Denon has had ongoing availability problems with both the 2930 and 3930 but if you can't buy them then it really doesn't matter how spiffy they are. And if you're unfortunate enough to have gotten one that went bad you may be waiting quite some time for a replacement (I waited almost 7 weeks before throwing in the towel). One feature missing from the Marantz that I'll miss is that is has no time remaining display. OTOH, I'm hoping the Marantz navigation is much faster than the 3930 which is it's achilles heel. Audio-wise I expect the Marantz to be better than the 3930 but that isn't a big concern of mine.

The Toshiba XA2 HD DVD sounds like a viable alternative to the 3930 (if SACD and DVD-A don't matter) but personally I'm not jumping into the HD-DVD fray until the format war becomes a bit more clear.

My Upconversion Ranking:

1. 3930
2. 2930
3. XA2
4. A2

The XA2 is very close to the 2930, but not quite as good.

If you want the best upconversion get an external scaler and a SDI output player.

What kind of difference did you see between the 2930 and 3930 and on what display? Also, was this an A/B comparision?

I ask because I have the 2930 and I demo'd a 3930. I didn't have both players at the same time, so I had to rely on reference discs which I always use and memory. But, after calibrating each player, they seemed identical on my ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV.

Yes, the Denon looks to be a better player and costs less than the Marantz as well. It's too bad that Denon has had ongoing availability problems with both the 2930 and 3930 but if you can't buy them then it really doesn't matter how spiffy they are. And if you're unfortunate enough to have gotten one that went bad you may be waiting quite some time for a replacement (I waited almost 7 weeks before throwing in the towel). One feature missing from the Marantz that I'll miss is that is has no time remaining display. OTOH, I'm hoping the Marantz navigation is much faster than the 3930 which is it's achilles heel. Audio-wise I expect the Marantz to be better than the 3930 but that isn't a big concern of mine.

The Toshiba XA2 HD DVD sounds like a viable alternative to the 3930 (if SACD and DVD-A don't matter) but personally I'm not jumping into the HD-DVD fray until the format war becomes a bit more clear.

i agree, im don't care that the unit does hd dvd, but many report it is a phenominal upconverting player for sd discs, so that is my main intention in its use. i guess one can say that the hd-dvd is a bonus to have, like sacd or dvd-a (for those who don't own any).

Remember that the Tosh HD-DVD players output PC RGB to DVI displays (99% of them). Unless the player you buy is temporary I'd hold off on buying the HD players. They all seem to have some issue(s) that would be considered serious for SD-DVD players. However, you can't beat the PQ of BD and HD-DVD discs! :)

larry

yeah, I understand the HD-DVD/BluRay PQ is unbelieveable! However, I'm in no hurry to get one right now. I'll probably wait at least a year, or until the market finally settles in on this product, and there is a significant amount of source material available (instead of the typical popular movies).

I imagine Denon will eventually adopt whatever format and produce comparable machines to the 5910CI, 3930CI, etc.,...only with HD-DVD video processing capability.

I'm hoping the Marantz navigation is much faster than the 3930 which is it's achilles heel.you mean processing time to load, read, and play disc? Or to switch from one function to another?

I have a 15' RAM DVI/HDMI cable going to an NEC HT1100. The HT1100 is HDCP compliant (or so says the manual). I also have component cables hooked between the HT1100 and the 2930. I have the HDMI indicator flashing, with no signal being recieved by the HT1100 when the HT1100's DVI input is selected. The component signal is recieved when the HT1100's component input is selected.

Audio is via Coaxial to my reciever.

I have had previous DVI hookups from other players to the HT1100, and all have worked just fine.

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where an HDMI checklist might exist? Or can someone post an easy-to-follow checklist? I have tried to follow the manual, but I must be dense or something. :confused:

All,

As some of you pointed out, the problem is probably related to HDCP & the DVI input on my Fujitsu Plasma.

In summary, when I connect the HDMI output of the Denon 2930 to the HDMI input of the Fujitsu, the picture on the plasma is fantastic. However, when connecting the HDMI output of the Denon 2930 to the DVI-D input of the Fujitsu (via a Monster HDMI - DVI converter cable), the picture on my plasma would blink to a black blank screen every second or so.

I have now rearranged the inputs to my plasma TV. The Denon 2930 is now connected via HDMI to my plasma, while my cable box uses the component inputs.

/Adil.

Your Fujitsu manual should indicate if the DVI port is HDCP compliant of not. Evidence shows that is probably is not. I'm sure other owners in the plasma forum will concur. HDMI switches work well, that's another option. I've never had any problems with DVD players or other DVI and HDMI output devices going into the DVI/HDCP input on my 4 yr old P50. The first cable stbs to use DVI output had issues, but it was a source problem.

larry

you mean processing time to load, read, and play disc? Or to switch from one function to another?Yeah...all of that actually.

I've owned a Denon 2900 for several years now and it's been an incredible machine. Been reading this thread on a daily basis for several months and am just about ready to pull the trigger on a 3930 as a replacement. Although Crutchfield is out of stock right now.

I don't care at all for the SD playback capability of either my Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD or the Sony BDPS1 Blu-ray players. For numerous reasons not to mention the sucky layer change they both suffer from, no "time remaining" OSD feature, audio pops when you chapter skip ahead, as well as the choppy FF and REW. I'm looking for a high-quality workhorse specifically to support my (2000+) SD DVD collection for many years to come. Any thoughts?

Considering the 2930 is very, very similar in video performance to the 3930, I don't see the point unless you're into audio. However, I do notice layer changes at times with the 2930 and the remote response time is slow in DVD menus, etc.

Yeah...all of that actually.actually, I think the load-read-play time for the DVD-3930CI is very good (not excellent, but good).

I had a Sony DVP-NS90V prior to the DVD-3930CI and it was very slow. Can't give an actual time measurement, but it was slow.

I know a few members actually posted measured times a little while back in this thread.

Wanted to note (for the record), I was playing an SACD today (Patricia Barber- "Modern Cool") on my DVD-3930CI, and on the sixth song selection the audio cut-out for a second, came back, then eventually cut-out for good. When I went up close to the player I could barely hear a "cycling" noise from the disc-drive, as if it were still trying to function (or was "hung"). I entered "stop" command and the noise stopped.

I turned the unit OFF, then back ON. I entered "play" command and it would not play. So I opened tray and removed disc, and replaced with a different disc, it played okay. I switched disc back to Patricia Barber disc and it played okay now.

Don't know what to make of this behavior. Not sure this is a disc-specific issue? This occured after hours of playing several disc's, mostly SACD's (in "source direct" mode).

actually, I think the load-read-play time for the DVD-3930CI is very good (not excellent, but good).

I had a Sony DVP-NS90V prior to the DVD-3930CI and it was very slow. Can't give an actual time measurement, but it was slow.

I know a few members actually posted measured times a little while back in this thread.

I agree 100% with WestCoastD. My last DVD player was a Denon 756s and my new 3930ci is no slower on load-read-play time. The pluses for my 3930ci over my Denon 756s (i also have a sony and a samsung dvd-hd850 upconverter dvd player) are many and significant.

I got my brand new 3930ci from a NY online vender for very cheap shipped about 2 weeks ago. The only problem i had was that because this vendor was not a vendor for Denon there was no warranty. The vendor that sold me my 3930ci told me this before my cc was charged and offered to sell me a 3 year warranty for $67 that i bought.

Also after talking to Doug about anything i could do to improve my DVD to TV setup he said no not really, except of corse have him calibrate my system. He will be at my house this thursday doing his thing. :D

Wanted to note (for the record), I was playing an SACD today (Patricia Barber- "Modern Cool") on my DVD-3930CI, and on the sixth song selection the audio cut-out for a second, came back, then eventually cut-out for good. When I went up close to the player I could barely hear a "cycling" noise from the disc-drive, as if it were still trying to function (or was "hung"). I entered "stop" command and the noise stopped.

I turned the unit OFF, then back ON. I entered "play" command and it would not play. So I opened tray and removed disc, and replaced with a different disc, it played okay. I switched disc back to Patricia Barber disc and it played okay now.

Don't know what to make of this behavior. Not sure this is a disc-specific issue? This occured after hours of playing several disc's, mostly SACD's (in "source direct" mode).
I've got that same Patricia Barber SACD and I never experienced that problem. However, the Denon firmware update that a couple of our European friends in this thread have mentioned is supposed to fix disc compatibility issues. It's the version three release of the original software. I think if you got a hold of it that would solve your problem. ;)

I've got that same Patricia Barber SACD and I never experienced that problem. However, the Denon firmware update that a couple of our European friends in this thread have mentioned is supposed to fix disc compatibility issues. It's the version three release of the original software. I think if you got a hold of it that would solve your problem. ;)
thanks for your input! I believe we are on the same "wave-length" because I was thinking the same thing.

I had never experienced any issues with this disc, or any others, with my Sony player. These high-resolution Patricia Barber disc's are some of the more high-quality manufactured products.

Also, I just remembered this problem happened one other time, a week ago, while playing a different SACD disc. It behaved almost as if it were "skipping", then audio pretty much cut-out. I figured it was an "odd" disc that was bad (but it was new, never played before that). Now I'm beggining to believe this may be a disc compatibility issue.

I remember a few weeks back a member, from Canada, posted that he had contacted Denon (by e-mail I believe), and they sent him a firmware update disc. I would like to do this.

Has anyone with a US 3930ci tired the eruo firmware Ver8284-3_DVD3930.zip?

i realize that to make the denons shine, one should have a 1080p display. assuming though, that one only has a 720p/1080i lcd display, would you all still recommend the denon? are there cheaper options that would better suit me? i am concerned with nest performance, regardless of price.

It's too bad that Denon has had ongoing availability problems with both the 2930 and 3930 but if you can't buy them then it really doesn't matter how spiffy they are.

Just a closer to this story... My local Denon dealer has given me their floor model as a loaner while I wait to get a new one. It's in great shape, and I've had lots of fun tonight listening to music and watching DVDs. (This kind of service is why I will always buy this kind of electronic equipment locally.)

I think the video is definitely several notches up from my 2910. The blacks look more consistent and the skin tones look great. The audio is fantastic and outshines my Rotel CD player in its warmth (though the Rotel is a great player in its own right).

I'm a happy camper. :) I look forward to re-reading this thread and experimenting with the settings.

Has anyone with a US 3930ci tired the eruo firmware Ver8284-3_DVD3930.zip?is it safe to use euro firmware in a US Denon product? I was looking on their (US) website and there is a disclaimer:
"Updates/Upgrades Warning

These updates are for U.S. products only. Attempts to use them in similar model products built for other countries may render the product inoperable or may affect features so that they no longer work properly. In the case of DVD players, it may change the region code which will leave the player unusable as our updates are for region 1 players. It may also affect the warranty coverage on your unit. Please use this site only if you are a U.S. customer with product purchased from a U.S. dealer. "

I know this statement is referring to US products, however, I would imagine this goes visa-versa as well.

i realize that to make the denons shine, one should have a 1080p display. assuming though, that one only has a 720p/1080i lcd display, would you all still recommend the denon? are there cheaper options that would better suit me? i am concerned with nest performance, regardless of price.

I would also like to know this.

i realize that to make the denons shine, one should have a 1080p display. Why? DVDs are only 480p. If you have a 1080p display it's better to send 1080p so there's no reinterlace like when sending 1080i. Other than that, once you get past 480p it's all "make believe". :)

larry

I remember a few weeks back a member, from Canada, posted that he had contacted Denon (by e-mail I believe), and they sent him a firmware update disc. I would like to do this.
I think that would do the trick for you. Call or write the Mahwah, New Jersey, headquarters. They were supposed to have the firmware available on the U.S. website sometime in February.

I think that would do the trick for you. Call or write the Mahwah, New Jersey, headquarters. They were supposed to have the firmware available on the U.S. website sometime in February.thanks. Yeah, I looked on the Denon-US web-site, I'm surprised the "Product Update's and Upgrade's" page does'nt show any listing for the DVD-3930CI model.
http://usa.denon.com/ProductUpdatesUpgrades.asp
I also called their customer service line and they were closed today (maybe the winter weather shut them down?). I'll try again tommorrow.

How to check your firmware on the DVD-3930

1) power off (via the little on/off switch)
2) hold Play en Open/Close buttons at the same time
3) power on (true the little on/off switch)
4) release hold Play en Open/Close buttons
5) press on the remote control the buttons 3 2 6 5
6) press Menu button to see various revision info


Regio Free Hack:


1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. Power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Pause.
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button,
hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press on the front panel Stop and Skip Forward (>>I).
The front panel should briefly display “Region_A2”. If not, then repeat the process 1-7 above.

Forgive me for not putting this in the appropriate thread, but how do you check the firmware version on Denon AVR's?

Forgive me for not putting this in the appropiate thread, but how do you check the firmware version on Denon AVR's?


How to check your firmware on the AVR-4306
don't know about the others.

1) power off (true the little on/off switch)
2) hold Surround Params and Status buttons at the same time
3) power on (true the little on/off switch)
4) release Surround Params and Status buttons
5) press Status button to see various revision info

Thanks. Is the software in the AVR 3806 have the same as what you note for the '4306?ions?

Brief question please:

Th 3910 is at such a good price right now I am tempted to buy. If I have a 1080P panel, how much will I really notice using the 3910 at 1080i (or 720P for that matter). In other words, for the video side only, is it worth almost twice the price?

Thanks.

~Bob

Using 1080i output from SD-DVD requires 480i -> deinterlace -> 480p -> scale -> 1080p -> reinterlace -> 1080i. 1080p output is 480i -> 480p -> 1080p and it doesn't matter if your TV properly deinterlacers 1080i or not (some don't). However, since you are starting out with 480i does it really matter if you output 1080i or 1080p? Maybe your TV scales 480p to 1080p just as good as the player. I can't believe so many TVs can't scale 480p to their native res. Also, the 3910 has a slight chance of inducing MB because it uses the Faroudja chip.

larry

Grat explanation. Thanks so much. I had not even considered scaling in the panel.

So, just to be sure I understand, a good Panny panel with 3910 will not be significantly less performance than with a 3930. Is that a fair statement?

~Bob

Grat explanation. Thanks so much. I had not even considered scaling in the panel.

So, just to be sure I understand, a good Panny panel with 3910 will not be significantly less performance than with a 3930. Is that a fair statement?

~Bob

Assuming your Panasonic PLP is 768P, like mine, I would be willing to be you couldn't tell a difference in virtually every case.

ok, took me a day and a half, but i finally read the last 45 pages or so of this thread. thanks for all the useful info.

i originally had a sony ns90v, which i didn't like all that much. tried out the 1930ci but had MB issues with my pioneer 1140 display. So, I am returning the 1930 and picked up a used 2930ci off audiogon. got it today and got it in my system and have a few questions. I don't think they've been covered and i apologize if they are elementary, but that manual is basically only good for use as a drink coaster.

1. Since it was a used deck, is there a way to restore all the setup options to the factory default? I tried to go through and change any settings the previous owner may have set to his system, but if i could assure myself i was starting from scratch, i would be happier. I worry he may have changed some of the picture settings because when i calibrated with Avia, I got some pretty extreme settings for contrast and brightness (-7 for Brightness and 42 for Contrast). It looks fine (haven't watched critically yet), but these settings vary greatly from the way i have set it up with the other dvd players and my STB so it's got me thinking something else is a bit screwy.

2. The 1930 had a black enhancement thing that was defaulted to on which elevated all the black levels and made the picture look washed out, is there any similar setting on the 2930 i should be aware of?

3. What's the point of having rolloffs on SACD material at 50Khz and 100Khz?

4. What is the A/V Sync function that syncs audio to progressive/interlaced/HDMI/others? I have the deck connected to my pdp by hdmi, but audio runs to my AVR via digital coax and 5.1 analog (will be adding additional cabling for the 2 channel run as well, though it outputs 2 channel redbook analog through the FL and FR 5.1 outputs).

4a. Is it possible to set a lip sync delay when the A/V sync function is set to HDMI?

5. My AVR (Arcam AVR350) does no bass management for the SACD input (automatically routed through its analogue direct mode), is the BM function on the 2930 configurable only for SACD/DVD-A? I don't want to multiply BM functionality.

thanks if you can help with any of my questions and sorry for the long first post in this thread. So far I'm very happy with the audio side of this deck, which is all i've been concentrating on so far.

-damon

[QUOTE=damonm]ok, took me a day and a half, but i finally read the last 45 pages or so of this thread. thanks for all the useful info.

i
1. Since it was a used deck, is there a way to restore all the setup options to the factory default? I tried to go through and change any settings the previous owner may have set to his system, but if i could assure myself i was starting from scratch, i would be happier. I worry he may have changed some of the picture settings because when i calibrated with Avia, I got some pretty extreme settings for contrast and brightness (-7 for Brightness and 42 for Contrast). It looks fine (haven't watched critically yet), but these settings vary greatly from the way i have set it up with the other dvd players and my STB so it's got me thinking something else is a bit screwy.

I just had Doug (DroptheRemote) calibrate my system. My DVD player is a 3930ci and what he did was to set everything to 0 including the IRE (default is 7.5) in the 3930. I use both Avia and Getgray to calibrate my system. However after having Doug calibrate my system there is a difference of day and night. Im seeing things that i never saw before.

3. What's the point of having rolloffs on SACD material at 50Khz and 100Khz?
I know, the DVD-3930CI is similiar this way. I was'nt sure whether to set "source direct" for 50kHz or 100kHz. Actually, I created a thread (in the "Amplifiers & Processors" area in regards to this):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=806121

I have mine set for "50kHz" to be safe. Source Direct works beautiful! SACD's and DVD-A's sound very nice, gain levels are equivalent to 2ch output.


5. My AVR (Arcam AVR350) does no bass management for the SACD input (automatically routed through its analogue direct mode), is the BM function on the 2930 configurable only for SACD/DVD-A? I don't want to multiply BM functionality.
thing is (I believe) if you use bass management on DVD-2930CI you can't take avantage of source direct gain increase. Otherwise bass management should work just fine. Go into audio menu, set:
AUDIO CHANNEL = "MULTI CHANNEL" (you'll get the sub-menu for speaker set-up. Set your speaker sizes and sub/or not and LFE value).
DIGITAL OUTPUT = "PCM"
SOURCE DIRECT = "OFF"

Multi-channel SACD audio should now pipe through your Arcam inputs.

I just had Doug (DroptheRemote) calibrate my system. My DVD player is a 3930ci and what he did was to set everything to 0 including the IRE (default is 7.5) in the 3930. I use both Avia and Getgray to calibrate my system. However after having Doug calibrate my system there is a difference of day and night. Im seeing things that i never saw before.

yeah, i would like to have my system professionally calibrated, but I am moving next month so it doesn't make sense to me to do it until I am set up in a new place. I will check on the IRE setting, though, thanks!


I know, the DVD-3930CI is similiar this way. I was'nt sure whether to set "source direct" for 50kHz or 100kHz. Actually, I created a thread (in the "Amplifiers & Processors" area in regards to this):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=806121

I have mine set for "50kHz" to be safe. Source Direct works beautiful! SACD's and DVD-A's sound very nice, gain levels are equivalent to 2ch output.


thanks, i will try that setting.


thing is (I believe) if you use bass management on DVD-2930CI you can't take avantage of source direct gain increase. Otherwise bass management should work just fine. Go into audio menu, set:
AUDIO CHANNEL = "MULTI CHANNEL" (you'll get the sub-menu for speaker set-up. Set your speaker sizes and sub/or not and LFE value).
DIGITAL OUTPUT = "PCM"
SOURCE DIRECT = "OFF"

Multi-channel SACD audio should now pipe through your Arcam inputs.

ok, this confused me a bit (the part about digital output to "pcm"). if i choose to make those settings, would the 2930 then be converting the DSD stream to PCM and outputting to the Arcam via coax?

I do not want to set the 2930 to do bass management on all sources, since i like how the Arcam is set up and i have it calibrated using avia and a SPL meter. but the Arcam doesn't do BM on the Multichannel analog inputs. i think sacd's so far sound outstanding, so i probably will not use BM for sacd, but i was going to test it out. but i will not do it if it will engage BM on all sources since the arcam is already doing it and i don't want to do it twice.

ok, this confused me a bit (the part about digital output to "pcm"). if i choose to make those settings, would the 2930 then be converting the DSD stream to PCM and outputting to the Arcam via coax?it confused me at first as well (due to poor writing in manual, they need to re-word things better).

Yeah, "normal" and "pcm" are only switches to route audio via-coax or via-5.1ch analog outputs. So if you are using 5.1ch analog connections, from your DVD-2930CI to your Arcam (for SACD), then you would have to select "pcm" setting.

Then go into "multi-channel" menu, "speaker configuration" (sub-menu) and configure speaker size, LFE, etc.,..(this is all provided for receivers or processors that don't have bass-management)


I do not want to set the 2930 to do bass management on all sources, since i like how the Arcam is set up and i have it calibrated using avia and a SPL meter. but the Arcam doesn't do BM on the Multichannel analog inputs. i think sacd's so far sound outstanding, so i probably will not use BM for sacd, but i was going to test it out. but i will not do it if it will engage BM on all sources since the arcam is already doing it and i don't want to do it twice.It should work just fine by configuring as I explain above, DVD-2930CI will handle bass-management. Although you probably can't enable "source direct", it will output full-range signals to your processor inputs (set = "OFF").

Otherwise, when you decide to switch to a DVD-Movie source (DolbyDigital 5.1, etc.,..) you will have to go into audio menu and re-set Digital Output = "normal" (to output to coax line), and uses bass-management from your Arcam processor.

thanks very much, that helps a lot. I'm going to experiment with these settings this weekend and see how it all plays out.

does anyone notice an increase in SQ on 2 channel material using the dedicated 2 channel analog output, versus using the FL and FR outputs in the 5.1 out section? i have to get additional interconnects to connect the dedicated 2 channel outputs and curious if i will hear anything different.

-damon

Yes, I find the SQ on the dedicated two-channel analog output to be much better. It's one of the features that was upgraded from the '3910.

does anyone notice an increase in SQ on 2 channel material using the dedicated 2 channel analog output, versus using the FL and FR outputs in the 5.1 out section?I use both 5.1ch and 2ch (also coax) connections from my DVD-3930CI to my Yamaha receiver. So far it's hard to tell if 2ch sound-quality is better (or different) from the 5.1ch FRONT output's. SACD's and DVD-A's sound very good, while regular stereo CD's, as well as high-resolution stereo music CD sources sound good. I'll have to pay closer attention.

How to check your firmware on the AVR-4306 and AVR-3806
don't know about the others.

1) power off (true the little on/off switch)
2) hold Surround Params and Status buttons at the same time
3) power on (true the little on/off switch)
4) release Surround Params and Status buttons
5) press Status button to see various revision info

This does not work on my 3806

This does not work on my 3806


Than i must be wrong. Wrong info from my informant.

Correction

This works only on the 4306.

Regio Free Hack:


1. Remove any disc currently in the unit.
2. Power off using the front panel On/Off button (not standby).
3. Press and hold Stop and Pause.
4. Keep the above buttons held and Power-up the player using the On/Off button,
hold the above buttons until the players name disappears from the front panel.
5. Wait until the unit finishes LOADING and the front panel of the player shows 0:00:00.
6. On the remote handset, press in sequence; 7 3 1 9 4 6 2 8
7. The unit should enter standby mode. On the front panel of the player, press the Standby button to turn the unit back on.
8. To confirm the update, press on the front panel Stop and Skip Forward (>>I).
The front panel should briefly display “Region_A2”. If not, then repeat the process 1-7 above.Mine only cycles from "Region_A1" to "Region_1", no "Region_A2". "Region_A1" is my default. What's "Region_1"?

Mine only cycles from "Region_A1" to "Region_1", no "Region_A2". "Region_A1" is my default. What's "Region_1"?You're OK... yours is a region 1 player, while Dutchman01's is a region 2 player, hence the difference. In your case, "Region_1" is actually the default (region-locked) mode, while "Region_A1" is the region-free mode.

You're OK... yours is a region 1 player, while Dutchman01's is a region 2 player, hence the difference. In your case, "Region_1" is actually the default (region-locked) mode, while "Region_A1" is the region-free mode.


That's correct

Region_A1 (USA etc)
Region_A2 (Europe)

are regio free mode.

This hack works on all models.
All firmware's are the same.

You're OK... yours is a region 1 player, while Dutchman01's is a region 2 player, hence the difference. In your case, "Region_1" is actually the default (region-locked) mode, while "Region_A1" is the region-free mode.Thanks

Just to let you know I contacted Denon Customer Service on friday (02-16-07) in regards to aquiring any "official" firmware updates for the DVD-3930CI (U.S. version), he replied that there are updates in the works, that they will be available on-line (for down-loading) soon, and to stay-tuned.

Thanks for the info. My 3930 is still on backorder from Crutchfield. With no anticipated delivery date. Could be weeks (months!?)

John,

Have you considered ordering elsewhere? I know Crutchfield has great service, but I've never been happy with their ability to keep newer products in stock or their waiting times.

Returned my 2930CI deciding to go for the 3930CI instead. I've been waiting for a while. None of the authorized Denon dealers in my local area. Checked the on-line dealers and only 6th Ave have it in stock.

I called them last Monday, got it delivered today.

Returned my 2930CI deciding to go for the 3930CI instead.

Things seem to be better here in Canada.

I too have decided to upgrade to the 3930 and my dealer has stock in the warehouse. I'll have the machine in a day.

Now I just have to explain to my wife why the new DVD player suddenly got taller. Hope she doesn't notice ;)

Things seem to be better here in Canada.

I too have decided to upgrade to the 3930 and my dealer has stock in the warehouse. I'll have the machine in a day.

Now I just have to explain to my wife why the new DVD player suddenly got taller. Hope she doesn't notice ;)

Geeeze ...don't let her pick it up! She's sure to notice the additional weight! :D

John,

Have you considered ordering elsewhere? I know Crutchfield has great service, but I've never been happy with their ability to keep newer products in stock or their waiting times.

I see 6th Ave has them in stock - but at the same full MSRP as Crutchfield.

However - if there is a problem (within the first 30 days) Crutchfield has stellar customer service w/ no re-stock or return shipping fees. I feel if I'm gonna pay full price - I might as well wait on Crutchfield. In the meantime I still have my venerable 2900. Which I will keep as a back-up player.

Geeeze ...don't let her pick it up! She's sure to notice the additional weight! :D

:D Good point, however she knows not to touch anything.

She has no problems with this because it means I am the one carefully dusting it.
And anytime she can get me to dust anything she's happy.
Next time she wants something expensive I'm going to have to look the other way :rolleyes:

Now I just have to explain to my wife why the new DVD player suddenly got taller.and how the bank account suddendly grew shorter.

Hi all,
today arrived my denon 3930 from Singapore, very excited and impressed so far with the product.

I need some help connecting it up and setting its settings, hope you can help.

I have connected all the analog 5.1 coax cables to my Pioneer VSX74 reciever and the HDMI also to my reciever, i gathered since the DACs are better in the Denon that this would be the best way to playback both movies and DVD-Audio.

Should i still connect the optical or SPDIF? it is ok to use the coax 5.1 for both movies and audio right?

by connecting the coax 5.1 cables to my reciever i also have the option to set the speaker distance and tuning on the denon player but my reciever has the MCACC setup which technically does the same thing right?
Should i disable the MCACC on the reciever whenever playing back movies or dvd-a? Or should i set it up on the denon player and let the pioneer reciever set the room properties and the speaker fine tuning?

are there any other settings i should setup in this configuration?

Thanks everyone.
Fabs

Something I've noticed now on the DVD-3930CI is when an SACD is already loaded in the unit previously (like the day before for example), and you power the unit back ON, sometimes it does'nt recognize, or properly read, the disc format and will procede to play the disc in "CD" or "stereo" mode.

However, when I enable the "SUPER AUDIO CD SETUP" button on the remote, from one mode to another ("CD", "STEREO", to "MULTI CHANNEL" mode) it does'nt respond. Consequently I have to enable the "OPEN/CLOSE" button, open the drawer, then close the drawer (sometimes twice) to force it to reset, or re-read the disc properly. Then it plays okay.

Does'nt happen all the time, but enough times to make me notice.

Oddly enough, I have the exact same SACD setup problem with the 1920! They must be reusing part of the firmware between models.

Oddly enough, I have the exact same SACD setup problem with the 1920! They must be reusing part of the firmware between models.possibly right!

I have connected all the analog 5.1 coax cables to my Pioneer VSX74 reciever and the HDMI also to my recievergood. I would also connect 2ch analog OUT to analog INP's on your Pioneer as well ("CD" inputs, for example) for playing regular CD (2-channel stereo) sources.


Should i still connect the optical or SPDIF? it is ok to use the coax 5.1 for both movies and audio right?yes. I use digital-coax conection when for DolbyDigital 5.1 sources (DVD-Movies, etc.,...). Although I guess you could use HDMI audio for this (DolbyDigital 5.1) as well.


Should i disable the MCACC on the reciever whenever playing back movies or dvd-a? Or should i set it up on the denon player and let the pioneer reciever set the room properties and the speaker fine tuning?
You'll have to study the manual somewhat and understand the language (it's poorly written). You definitely want to take advantage of "source direct" setting when playing multi-channel music (SACD's, DVD-A's).

For movies (DolbyDigital 5.1) via-digital-coax input: I go into set-up, AUDIO MENU-
AUDIO CHANNEL = MULTI-CHANNEL (set speaker size, also sub yes/no, etc.,...)
DIGITAL OUTPUT = NORMAL
ALL OTHER's = OFF

For multi-channel music via-5.1ch analog OUT's (SACD/DVD-A):
AUDIO CHANNEL = MULTI-CHANNEL (set all speaker size=LARGE, also sub=yes)
DIGITAL OUTPUT = PCM
SOURCE DIRECT = 50kHz
ALL OTHER's = OFF
(Go into your receiver speaker-set-up, set speaker-size: CENTER=small, REAR's=small, FRONT's=large if no sub/small if using sub; LFE or crossover=80Hz, also make sure reciever is in "multi-channel input" mode).

For 2-channel stereo music via-2.1ch analog OUT's (CD's):
AUDIO CHANNEL = 2CH(VSS OFF) (don't necessarily have to make speaker-level adjustments)
DIGITAL OUTPUT = PCM
SOURCE DIRECT = OFF
ALL OTHER's = OFF
(make sure receiver is in 2-channel analog input mode- ie. "CD" input, for example).

I hope this gives you some idea, although you'll have to get used to the menu. Also, HDMI audio has it's own set-up for the various modes.

Why do you sent Digital Output to "PCM" rather than "Normal" and why does Audio Channel need to be in "2CH/VSS Off" when playing stereo music, i.e., what happens if you just leave it on MultiChannel for the convenience of using both the two-channel analogue output and the 5.1 analogue output for surround music?

Hi people.

I'm from Brazil and I intend to travel to Atlanta - USA next month. Does somebody know where there is a place to shop a DV2930 in Atlanta?

Thanks,

Jose Henrique :)

Hi people.
I'm from Brazil and I intend to travel to Atlanta - USA next month. Does somebody know where there is a place to shop a DV2930 in Atlanta?
Thanks, Jose Henrique :)Find Best Buy/Magnolia or Tweeter stores over there.

Why do you send Digital Output to "PCM" rather than "Normal"I know this stuff is confusing (I'm still learning). Actually, from the way I understand it, if you're using an AV receiver with built-in DolbyDigital, DTS decoder, etc.,..."NORMAL" setting directs the corresponding bit-streams to the AV receiver. "PCM" converts to 48kHz,16-bit (2-chan) before outputting from digital outout on DVD-3930CI.

why does Audio Channel need to be in "2CH/VSS Off" when playing stereo music, i.e., what happens if you just leave it on MultiChannel for the convenience of using both the two-channel analogue output and the 5.1 analogue output for surround music?you can use either configuration actually, I just tested it and it works. However, I like using the dedicated 2ch analog OUT's from the Denon for stereo sources. My multi-channel sources are routed (from 5.1ch OUT's) through Yamaha multi-channel inputs (for playing SACD's and DVD-A's).

You'll have to study the manual somewhat and understand the language (it's poorly written) [...]
I hope this gives you some idea, although you'll have to get used to the menu...Actually, my friend, it's you who should study the manual more or put your equipment through more testing before you give such "valuable advices" (aka: TOTAL MISCONCEPTION, or BS !!!) to others.

And here's some clarification:
1) When you use digital coax or tosslink (for DD, DTS, stereo) you don't have to do anything at all in the player's setup, as these outputs are always active. And all they do is sending the digital bitstream out, which needs to be decoded by the receiver's DACS, then processed (incl. receiver's speakers configuration setup) and amplified for speakers output.

2) In your AUDIO MENU the DIGITAL OUTPUT should be left as NORMAL (default), unless your receiver does not have DD and DTS decoders (doubtful ;) ).

3) Specifically, for dig.outs you don't have to touch your AUDIO MENU->AUDIO CHANNEL setup as it is dedicated only to 5.1 analog output !!! :eek:

4) If you decide to use 5.1 analog output, then you MUST set up the AUDIO MENU->AUDIO CHANNEL = M/CH (if you have more than 2 speakers), which is default anyway. And you keep it this way even when you play 2-ch sources (SACDs, CDs etc.) !!! :D
Then you configure all the speakers data, delay, BM etc. as this is what your PLAYER applies to the (already decoded) analog signals, which will be sent to receiver just for amplification (thus bypassing receiver's speaker configuration)

5) You can also play with the SOURCE DIRECT/BASS ENHANCER/COMPRESSION values, and try what's to your liking ...

And that's it - after setup (both in receiver and in the player) is done, you don't have to touch it anymore - that's the whole idea ! You don't have to change it each time you change your source !!!

I really don't know how you came up with all these crazy ideas ... :p

Actually, my friend, it's you who should study the manual more or put your equipment through more testing before you give such "valuable advices"are you using a DVD-3930CI?

Thanks for your responses,

So let me clarify:
So eventhough i have the HDMI hooked up it would be better for me to use the digital coax. correct?

With the digital output i should let the reciever decode the DTS or DD signal? wouldnt it be better to let the Denon do that as it has better DACs or are the DACs not used when sending a decoded signal over digital coax?

Can i not use the Analog 5.1 analog outputs for movies? wouldn't that be best?

In multichannel audio aplication i should use the Denon's speaker calibration/adjustment (size and distance) over the recievers. is this also correct?

Westcoast:

"For multi-channel music via-5.1ch analog OUT's (SACD/DVD-A):
AUDIO CHANNEL = MULTI-CHANNEL (set all speaker size=LARGE, also sub=yes)
DIGITAL OUTPUT = PCM
SOURCE DIRECT = 50kHz
ALL OTHER's = OFF
(Go into your receiver speaker-set-up, set speaker-size: CENTER=small, REAR's=small, FRONT's=large if no sub/small if using sub; LFE or crossover=80Hz, also make sure reciever is in "multi-channel input" mode)."

so by setting these settings i would be doubling up the speaker configuration is that right? shouldnt the pioneer and the denon reflect the same speaker size?
I use Dynaudio Focus (220 front) (110 rear) (200 centre) speakers but have them all setup as small in my pioneer's configuration and i have a velodyne sub.

Why should i tell the denon that the speakers are large? will that not bypass the bass to the subwoofer?

sorry to bombard you with these questions. its all quite confusing, i'm still learning!
I appreciate your help!

ooh and one last thing, when playing back SACD or DVDA i should disable the MCACC on the reciever right? is this really a good idea since it also disables the EQ?

i thought it would be maybe better to NOT use the denon's speaker adjustment and let the pioneer's MCACC do the work.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!

If you are using MCACC on the receiver you should be sending "equal" (straight from disc before D/A) to the receiver. This is where i.Link (or DenonLink) is nice, the digital bitstream goes to the receiver and it does all it's processing in the digital domain. The player has to have some sort of "direct mode" - just do D/A on all the channels, no BM, time alignment or anything else. Or do it all in the player and put the receiver in "direct mode", that will disable MCACC - the light will go out.

larry

what happens if you just leave it on MultiChannel for the convenience of using both the two-channel analogue output and the 5.1 analogue output for surround music?


after setup (both in receiver and in the player) is done, you don't have to touch it anymore - that's the whole idea ! You don't have to change it each time you change your source


when playing back SACD or DVDA i should disable the MCACC on the reciever right? is this really a good idea since it also disables the EQ?

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused, but True Fan is mostly correct- once the AUDIO SETUP menu is configured properly (for your particular component set-up) you should'nt have to re-set every time you switch to a different source. The language in the DVD-3930CI manual is a little mis-leading and confusing (I've read through pages 20 -24 more than a few times).

Anyway, I'm using a Yamaha RX-V1600 receiver along with my DVD-3930CI. I have Energy RC-Series speakers (RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-R rears, S8.3 sub). I listen to, primary, music, especially multi-channel (SACD's and DVD-A's), as well as regular CD sources. I also watch DVD-Movies, etc.,...I prefer listening to music with [no] sub, as my fronts are full-range floorstanders. Although I use sub for DVD-Movies and digital-cable broadcast's (DolbyDigital 5.1, etc.,...).

I use digital-coax OUT connection for DolbyDigital 5.1 when watching DVD-Movie sources; I use 5.1ch analog OUT's for multi-channel music (connected to Yamaha "multi-channel" INP's); I use 2ch analog OUT's for regular CD sources (connected to Yamaha "CD" analog inputs), I prefer having "discrete" stereo channels separate from my 5.1 analog multi-channels. Also, I'm not using HDMI (yet), I'm currently using component-video connections.

Consequently, I have my DVD-3930CI AUDIO SETUP as such:

AUDIO CHANNEL = MULTI-CHANNEL (I have all speaker size=LARGE, also sub=yes, per manual page 24 "note")
DIGITAL OUTPUT = NORMAL
DOWN SAMPLING = OFF
SOURCE DIRECT = 50kHz
BASS ENHANCER = OFF
COMPRESSION = OFF

I control bass-management function on Yamaha-side. I go into Yamaha speaker set-up menu and make the following selections: CENTER=small, REAR's=small, FRONT's=large if no sub/small if using sub ("LFE" = FRONT for no sub, or "LFE" = SUB); crossover=80Hz.

Therefore:

[A] when watching DVD-Movies (DolbyDigital 5.1) I switch my Yamaha source to "DVD" (which uses digital-coax audio INP source from DVD-3930CI). I quickly go into Yamaha speaker set-up menu and set FRONT = "small"; LFE = "subwoofer" (all other speakers are already = "small").

[B] when listening to multi-channel music sources (SACD's or DVD-A's), or even watching DVD-Video's with DTS 5.1 sound-tracks (as in "live" concert productions), I switch my Yamaha source for "multi-channel" inputs. I quickly go into Yamaha speaker set-up menu and set FRONT = "large"; LFE = "FRONT" (all other speakers are already = "small"), as I like bass through fronts for music sources (you can choose SUB if you prefer instead).

[C] when listening to regular CD sources (2-channel stereo), I switch my Yamaha source for "CD" input. I quickly go into Yamaha speaker set-up menu and set FRONT = "large"; LFE = "FRONT" (all other speakers are already = "small"), as I like bass through fronts for music sources (you can choose SUB if you prefer instead).

Moreover, when listening to music sources exclusively (CD's, SACD's, DVD-A's), I set DVD-3930CI for "PURE DIRECT" mode (display and video = OFF). I also have Yamaha set for "PURE DIRECT" mode as well (all video circuitry OFF). This optimizes audio quality by removing any potential "noise", as well as no tone controls or EQ function. Some like this, some don't.

You'll have to re-interpret any of my set-up configuration for your use as you desire. Also I have'nt used HDMI AUDIO (yet), so you'll have to read the manual for that.

I believe that covers it for most of my use. There are still quite a few areas, or concepts, on the DVD-3930CI that I'm still trying to understand correctly, for example- ie. the two settings for "source direct" (50kHz and 100kHz). The manual explains (page 23 "source direct" section) that if your amp and speaker combination are not capable of "high frequency" operation damage may result when using 100kHz setting. So I set for 50kHz to be safe. Does this imply that your amp or speakers are actually seeing these kinds of frequencies? Does'nt make sense.

Anyway, hope all this helps to re-clarify things. Again sorry for any confusion.

Thanks for your input True Fan, it helped me a lot.

Now I tuck my tail between my legs and run real far and hide in the bushes, never to be heard from again :o

Hi all,
Have had a 2930 now for two weeks and very pleased with it, stunning picture quality. Just need some advice on burnt DVD discs and wondered if the knowledgable people here might be able to help. When i play camcorder footage burnt onto DVD-R, or back-up discs burnt onto DVD-R, sometimes but not always the discs stutter or freeze, sometimes carrying on playing and sometimes refusing to play at all. These discs have all been burnt at x1 speed on good quality discs and if placed into an old Kiss dvd player, play without a problem!
Is the 2930 just extremely picky when it comes to discs?, or does it have a problem playing DVD-R discs?,, or is there a problem with my player?
Has anyone got any ideas to help solve this please - otherwise very happy Denon owner !
Thanks in advance.

I've always had problems in the past w/ Denon's not playing DVD-R's. Was hoping this was corrected in the newer units. Guess not. (Which means I better keep my Sony ES9000 just for playing DVD-R's)

Hi all,
Have had a 2930 now for two weeks and very pleased with it, stunning picture quality. Just need some advice on burnt DVD discs and wondered if the knowledgable people here might be able to help. When i play camcorder footage burnt onto DVD-R, or back-up discs burnt onto DVD-R, sometimes but not always the discs stutter or freeze, sometimes carrying on playing and sometimes refusing to play at all. These discs have all been burnt at x1 speed on good quality discs and if placed into an old Kiss dvd player, play without a problem!
Is the 2930 just extremely picky when it comes to discs?, or does it have a problem playing DVD-R discs?,, or is there a problem with my player?
Has anyone got any ideas to help solve this please - otherwise very happy Denon owner !
Thanks in advance.

Don't know about the 2930 but my 3930 play's everything i trow in right now.

Before the latest firmware i did have also some minnor play problems even with one original cd.

So ask for the latest firmware from denon and flash the player.
It fix some bugs more.

Ok guys, you may recall I had a 3930 that crapped out so I waited 6-7 weeks for Denon to replace it before I gave up and bought a Marantz DV9600. The Marantz PQ is very good and certainly on par (HDMI wise) with the 3930 for most material (I haven't tested the component outputs yet but my dealer assures me that it has better blacks than the 3930). And I haven't torture tested the deinterlacer either but I'll concede that the 3930 deinterlacer should be superior for certain specific material. That said, the Marantz is very responsive to remote commands and runs circles around the 3930 in that regard. It loads faster too and I don't have to wait very long for the drawer to open either. So far I've been able to skip thru FBI warnings which I don't think I could with the Denon. The one downside to the DV9600 is no "time remaining" display but I guess I'll adapt. All in all I really like the Marantz and I'm not regretting my decision to switch. Have fun with those Denon's and I hope they finally get their act together and fix their horrible supply problems and get units to those still waiting.

Before the latest firmware i did have also some minnor play problems even with one original cd.I noticed my DVD-3930CI sometimes stops abruptly while playing a disc (so far I noticed this happening with SACD's), however, would continue to play when I re-select a song.

Also, with a few SACD's, the audio would cut-out intermittently and eventually stop playing permanently (as if the disc was "bad"). I'm thinking this is a "compatibility" issue more than a [disc] issue?

I noticed my DVD-3930CI sometimes stops abruptly while playing a disc (so far I noticed this happening with SACD's), however, would continue to play when I re-select a song.

Also, with a few SACD's, the audio would cut-out intermittently and eventually stop playing permanently (as if the disc was "bad"). I'm thinking this is a "compatibility" issue more than a [disc] issue?

Please post Firmware version,

How to check your firmware on the DVD-3930

1) power off (via the little on/off switch)
2) hold Play en Open/Close buttons at the same time
3) power on (true the little on/off switch)
4) release hold Play en Open/Close buttons
5) press on the remote control the buttons 3 2 6 5
6) press Menu button to see various revision info

Ok guys, you may recall I had a 3930 that crapped out so I waited 6-7 weeks for Denon to replace it before I gave up and bought a Marantz DV9600. The Marantz PQ is very good and certainly on par (HDMI wise) with the 3930 for most material (I haven't tested the component outputs yet but my dealer assures me that it has better blacks than the 3930). And I haven't torture tested the deinterlacer either but I'll concede that the 3930 deinterlacer should be superior for certain specific material. That said, the Marantz is very responsive to remote commands and runs circles around the 3930 in that regard. It loads faster too and I don't have to wait very long for the drawer to open either. So far I've been able to skip thru FBI warnings which I don't think I could with the Denon. The one downside to the DV9600 is no "time remaining" display but I guess I'll adapt. All in all I really like the Marantz and I'm not regretting my decision to switch. Have fun with those Denon's and I hope they finally get their act together and fix their horrible supply problems and get units to those still waiting.

Geof:
How is the layer change? Does Marantz use a 8mb buffer too? The Denon is perfect in this regard. I could give up the time remaining feature - and even the Realta chip - but not the seamless layer change.

i originally had a sony ns90v, which i didn't like all that much.I used a Sony DVP-NS90V before I got the Denon DVD-3930CI. The Sony was very impressive-sounding (for $199.00), of course it only plays SACD format (for hi-rez). Also had beautiful video quality. The only dis-like was processing time to read and play a disc after loading (seemed like 35 to 40 seconds).

Ok guys, you may recall I had a 3930 that crapped out so I waited 6-7 weeks for Denon to replace it before I gave up and bought a Marantz DV9600. The Marantz PQ is very good and certainly on par (HDMI wise) with the 3930 for most material (I haven't tested the component outputs yet but my dealer assures me that it has better blacks than the 3930). And I haven't torture tested the deinterlacer either but I'll concede that the 3930 deinterlacer should be superior for certain specific material. That said, the Marantz is very responsive to remote commands and runs circles around the 3930 in that regard. It loads faster too and I don't have to wait very long for the drawer to open either. So far I've been able to skip thru FBI warnings which I don't think I could with the Denon. The one downside to the DV9600 is no "time remaining" display but I guess I'll adapt. All in all I really like the Marantz and I'm not regretting my decision to switch. Have fun with those Denon's and I hope they finally get their act together and fix their horrible supply problems and get units to those still waiting.

Denon and Marantz brands are from the same company, D&M. Do you have any information that the players are built with different power supplies or different build quality standards, or at different factories for that matter?

Chris

Denon and Marantz brands are from the same company, D&M. Do you have any information that the players are built with different power supplies or different build quality standards, or at different factories for that matter?

ChrisWithout removing the cover build quality between the two seem similar. I'm sure the power supply and internals are different since the Marantz is built on Pioneer parts whereas the Denon is not. I believe my Denon 3930 was assembled in China but the Marantz is from Japan.

Was D&M part of a merger? Were these two un-related, separate, companies in the past?

Hi all,
Have had a 2930 now for two weeks and very pleased with it, stunning picture quality. Just need some advice on burnt DVD discs and wondered if the knowledgable people here might be able to help. When i play camcorder footage burnt onto DVD-R, or back-up discs burnt onto DVD-R, sometimes but not always the discs stutter or freeze, sometimes carrying on playing and sometimes refusing to play at all. These discs have all been burnt at x1 speed on good quality discs and if placed into an old Kiss dvd player, play without a problem!
Is the 2930 just extremely picky when it comes to discs?, or does it have a problem playing DVD-R discs?,, or is there a problem with my player?
Has anyone got any ideas to help solve this please - otherwise very happy Denon owner !
Thanks in advance.

I have burnt a number of DVD's on TY -R and Verbatim -R or +R DL media using a NEC recorder, and rarely have any issues on either the Denon 2900 (which is notoriously finicky) or the 3930ci.

It really helps to have a good recorder (Pioneer or NEC) and use absolutely top quality media. Verbatim especially seems to be excellent. With TY -R every now and then I get a clunker.

Please post Firmware version,I guess I performed this procedure correctly? (the tray opens-up at the end- because you release the open/close button), anyway here's what I got for my DVD-3930CI:

BE = 8284
MAKE DAY = 711
DSP = 8250
IP = 060711

Thanks for you input.

Was D&M part of a merger? Were these two un-related, separate, companies in the past?

Marantz goes way back and controlling interests have changed a number of times. Here is a brief article about the 2002 merger:

http://www.stereophile.com/news/11283/index.html

Chris

Here is a brief article about the 2002 mergerinteresting, thanks for that.

The picture I'm getting from my 2930 is much too yellow.
Can't figure out what to do.
Have tried adjusting via the TV menu (I used DVE).
Tinkered with player settings but that didn't really help.
When I run my PVR into the same input all is well.
I'm using HDMI out on the 2930, same as the PVR.

Help!

The picture I'm getting from my 2930 is much too yellow.
Can't figure out what to do.
Have tried adjusting via the TV menu (I used DVE).
Tinkered with player settings but that didn't really help.
When I run my PVR into the same input all is well.
I'm using HDMI out on the 2930, same as the PVR.

Help!

Is it like this on HDMI and component? I remember you stating this once before - either you have a defective unit or a display issue of some sort. The 2930 has an accurate grayscale - even verified by my ISF calibrator. He ran the numbers on it with DVE and the color analyzer. The color decoding is fine too.

Is it like this on HDMI and component? I remember you stating this once before - either you have a defective unit or a display issue of some sort. The 2930 has an accurate grayscale - even verified by my ISF calibrator. He ran the numbers on it with DVE and the color analyzer. The color decoding is fine too.

I mentioned this before? Wow...my memory is getting bad.

Tried it on component too. Same thing.
Will experiment some more.
Am seriously thinking about moving up to the 3930 anyway.
If it still happens then I'll know it's a display issue.

quick question (sorry if its been asked before), but putting aside the fact of 1080p. if i have a 720p/1080i display, would you all still recommend me getting the 2930? if so, would you say that it is the best player at that price range for what i need? (im not interested in oppo). thanks.

Thanks for your help guys!

quick question (sorry if its been asked before), but putting aside the fact of 1080p. if i have a 720p/1080i display, would you all still recommend me getting the 2930? if so, would you say that it is the best player at that price range for what i need? (im not interested in oppo). thanks.

I think so if you plan to use it as an audio player as well.

I'm having some issues with my unit but I think the problems may be display related. Overall a very nice player. Well built. You get what you pay for.

I mentioned this before? Wow...my memory is getting bad.

Tried it on component too. Same thing.
Will experiment some more.
Am seriously thinking about moving up to the 3930 anyway.
If it still happens then I'll know it's a display issue.

I think what DavidHir is trying to tell you is that you may need to have your system calibrated by ISF calibrator. I used Getgray and Avia to get my colors and picture the best that it could be but i could never get everything to come together. So i had Doug (Droptheremote) calibrate my Panny HD plasma and my Denon 3930ci. After he was done i was very very happy with every thing. Now i know im getting the best out of my system i can. I have even stated to buy(10 so far) Superbit DVDs from Ebay. And this is not to say that my SD DVDs don't play and look great because they do play and look great!

re: 2930 color issues

With digital output, even if the player decoding and video processing wasn't perfect, you wouldn't see big changes in color. It's sending wha't in the disc. However, since the video data do pass through some logic than can "adjust" color (I'm assuming the 2930 has these controls) that it's possible the player is "broken". Rang, have you tried resetting the player back to factory defaults?

larry

I have to admit the DVD-3930CI is a wonderful sounding player!

I've played several hours of multi-channel music sources (SACD's, DVD-A's, DTS 5.1's) through it now and I'm very impressed with the sound-quality and dynamics through my Yamaha RX-V1600, NAD C272 amps and Energy RC-Series speakers.

Moreover, it's a true "universal" player, I like the fact that I can put in any format (SACD, DVD-A, DTS 5.1, CD) and it automatically reads and play's it without any re-setting of controls.

I have to admit the DVD-3930CI is a wonderful sounding player!

I've played several hours of multi-channel music sources (SACD's, DVD-A's, DTS 5.1's) through it now and I'm very impressed with the sound-quality and dynamics through my Yamaha RX-V1600, NAD C272 amps and Energy RC-Series speakers.

Moreover, it's a true "universal" player, I like the fact that I can put in any format (SACD, DVD-A, DTS 5.1, CD) and it automatically reads and play's it without any re-setting of controls.


Nice looking system....clean :)

Yes - very nice. And the 3930 looks great sitting there in your rack! (Can't wait to get mine)

thanks for your comments!

The only other thing I'm changing is I plan to swap-out the Yamaha RX-V1600 (which has been very impressive) for the new NAD T175 surround-processor (to be released hopefully in April):
http://www.digitalvideoht.it/files/NAD_T175.pdf

I'm expecting this unit to give me that much waited for extra "clarity", and greater sound-stage, of a separate pre-amp.

thanks for your comments!

The only other thing I'm changing is I plan to swap-out the Yamaha RX-V1600 (which has been very impressive) for the new NAD T175 surround-processor (to be released hopefully in April):
http://www.digitalvideoht.it/files/NAD_T175.pdf

I'm expecting this unit to give me that much waited for extra "clarity", and greater sound-stage, of a separate pre-amp.

Nice looking set-up, and the addition of the new NAD wil most definitely be an nice upgrade from the Yamaha. Well done! What's that on the top rack? At first I thought it was a turntable and you were spinning some vinyl!

Nice looking set-up!thanks


the addition of the new NAD wil most definitely be an nice upgrade from the Yamaha.I hope so (actually I'm expecting it to yield better sound quality).

Although, I'm very happy with the performance of the Yamaha RX-V1600 overall. I yields good sound-quality, excellent DSP, video-processing, etc.,...


What's that on the top rack? At first I thought it was a turntable and you were spinning some vinyl!it's a Scientific Atlanta SA8300HD digital-cable receiver.

I grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's, I don't think I'll ever touch an LP again in my life. I lived the turntable experience many times over- all the hassles of scratched records, etc.,..It's amazing how popular LP's are now. Actually, I have quite an LP selection in my garage and in excellent condition. Don't know whether to sell them back or what?

Let's keep the discussion on the players, please. Thanks.

larry

I called Denon today inquiring about a firmware upgrade for my 2930CI. I was told there is no upgrade expected anytime soon (however, who really knows with these CSRs). I would like to see something done about the slow menu selections and how in "Auto" mode the deinterlacer appears to slip into Video mode at rare times on film-based DVDs (such as on Star Wars: A New Hope, for example).

Has anyone compared the video ONLY of the DVD-5910(CI) and the DVD-3930CI?
Audioholics rated them identically for video performance (though not audio). Secrets prefered the Anchor Bay scaler in the 5910 to the Realta scaling in the 3930, but their performance was nearly identical.

I called Denon today inquiring about a firmware upgrade for my 2930CI. I was told there is no upgrade expected anytime soon (however, who really knows with these CSRs). I would like to see something done about the slow menu selections and how in "Auto" mode the deinterlacer appears to slip into Video mode at rare times on film-based DVDs (such as on Star Wars: A New Hope, for example).

What if you keep the player menu in "film" mode (not auto)? Star Wars OK then?

What if you keep the player menu in "film" mode (not auto)? Star Wars OK then?

Yep.

Yep.
David, Where is film mode? In the progressive menu there is Auto, Video 1, and Video 2. I looked at the 2930 manual and there is nothing I can find about "film mode". Thanks!

On page 21, the manual associates Video 2 with film material discs. No mention of it with Video 1. Auto is just an automatic detection of the material applying Video 1 or Video 2.

I would then simply keep my player in the Video 2 mode, as I only watch film based material in my home theater. Maybe w/ the exception of the "extras" on a disc.

And then you could always change the mode if you need to play video based discs.

Strange that Denon calls the "film mode" video 2. Confusing.

I just leave mine in Video 2 as 99% of the time all I watch are film-based DVDs - I just switch it over to Video 1 for that rare occasion.

Has anyone compared the video ONLY of the DVD-5910(CI) and the DVD-3930CI?
Audioholics rated them identically for video performance (though not audio). Secrets prefered the Anchor Bay scaler in the 5910 to the Realta scaling in the 3930, but their performance was nearly identical.

If I read this correctly Secrets gave a slight edge to the Realta scaling:

"I didn’t find much, if any, difference between the scaling of the ABT chip in the 5910 and the scaling in the 3930CI. Both are excellent, with a small edge going to the 3930 using a luma burst test pattern. The 3930 showed a bit less ringing in the upper frequency range."

The 3930 fell behind due to chroma filtering being turned off:
"The 3930CI failed two of our CUE tests, including material with an alternating 3-2 cadence and our 4:2:0 ICP test. This means that the player is not incorporating any type of CUE correction filter even though I believe the Realta chip has this capability."

Probably an intentional decision to protect the flagship status of the 5910.

this very well may be a stupid question. But how long do we anticipate Denon keeping the 3930 around. The 3910 and 2910 were around for 2 or 3 years right? However there was a 1920 for only one year then came the 1930. Should i expect the 3930 to be around for at least two years? I'm seriously considering picking one up this week but am gonna be pissed if there are gonna be new models coming out in a few months (like the 08 series receivers)

As of late, it's been every two years Denon brings out the new model for the 3930 and 2930 classes. So, fall of 2008 would be the next if they were to do a 2950 or 3950, for example. However, I think much of this will depend on the HD situation and I'd imagine they'd bring out a HD player instead. Just my guess. They could also just keep the 3930 and 2930. I don't believe we will see anymore notable improvements in SD DVD deinterlacing and scaling, however. I think Silicon Optics has pretty much maxed out SD DVD potential.

I just leave mine in Video 2 as 99% of the time all I watch are film-based DVDs - I just switch it over to Video 1 for that rare occasion.
Thanks David and John. I don't know what we'd do without some of you guys! Video 2 it is!

Rob

Probably an intentional decision to protect the flagship status of the 5910.

It wouldn't surprise me; it reminds me 90's when GM tuned down the Trans Am and Camaro so it wouldn't top the Corvette, even though they had the same engine. (I miss those days! :D )

Seems like it should automatically output 50hz signals for PAL and 60hz for NTSC. If it doesn't, then there's not much you can do but set it manually. That's a lot better than only having one type output and have to convert one of the formats to the other.

Actually, can anybody comment on the quality of the 3930's 50hz->60hz conversion?

I would be especially interested using the 3930 to upconvert PAL DVDs (both video- and film-sourced) to 1080i60, for display on a North American HDTV CRT. I'm hoping that the Realta would at least blend the frames, rather than simply repeating every fifth frame like the 3910 does--I'll take motion blur over motion judder any day.

Thank you!

The one function I miss, that the DVD-3930CI does'nt seem to have, is "disc-memory"- when you remove a disc (for example a DVD-Movie) from the machine (while in the middle of material), to play a different disc, then re-load the previous disc to finish watching, you have to "re-find" yourself all the way back to where you last left-off.

My previous player, a Sony DVP-NS90V, would "mark" in it's memory exactly where you stopped a particular disc (only when you press "stop" button once), when you re-load the particular disc later it would begin playing exactly at that point you stopped at. A very convenient feature for keeping track of a movie especially (not bad for a $199.00 machine- impressive sound and video quality as well).

Sony has used that feature for a long time. That is not the norm. Sony players would remember 50 to 200 discs depending on the model. Some players remember 1 disc or 5 discs or no discs but Sonys solution was not the norm.

Sony players would remember 50 to 200 discs depending on the model.I really got used to that function. I expected that type of function with the Denon (guess they have'nt adopted that in any of their players?).

Yes, I agree the disc memory function would be nice.

I just got a new Denon 3930CI, manufacture date of January 2007. There has been very low availability with this unit (I had been using a loaner from my local Denon dealer). I'm not sure if I just got one out of a small trickle of units coming out of Denon or if they have resolved their supply problems. At any rate, if you've been looking for one, now may be the time to call your local dealer.

Crutchfield is still out w/ no estimated time of delivery. :(

John, ABT has similar customer service and return/warranty policies. Crutchfield is great, but their waits for stock can be torturous (never been able to figure that out about them).

Got the go ahead from my wife today on my proposed upgrade: 2930 -> 3930 :)

Last time I talked to the dealer he had stock. Sure hope that's still the case

John, ABT has similar customer service and return/warranty policies. Crutchfield is great, but their waits for stock can be torturous (never been able to figure that out about them).

Thanks for the heads-up. Didn't know about ABT. They are back-ordered too. But only by 7-10 days which is not bad - and $75.00 less.

On my 3930 I sometimes experience soft crackling pops (like static clicks on vinyl) in CD and SACD playback (haven't noticed it on DVD playback yet). I use the dedicated analog stereo outputs.
If I turn the unit off (with the small switch, not the standby switch) for a a few seconds and on again the problem usually clears. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

I sometimes experience soft crackling pops (like static clicks on vinyl) in CD and SACD playback (haven't noticed it on DVD playback yet). Does this sound familiar to anyone?I have'nt experienced this occurence myself (and I hope never). I use both 2ch and 5.1ch analog connections.

Crutchfield mailed my unit yesterday. :) Probably arrive Monday/Tuesday. I'll be comparing it to my venerable (and speedy) 2900.

I can't remember. Do I need to check to see what firmware it's running? Although I don't believe there have been any updates.

John,

What display are you using?

Crutchfield mailed my unit yesterday. :) Probably arrive Monday/Tuesday. I'll be comparing it to my venerable (and speedy) 2900.

I can't remember. Do I need to check to see what firmware it's running? Although I don't believe there have been any updates.
There have been firmware updates. Check to see if you've got Version 3-8284.

John,

What display are you using?

JVC RS1 projector is arriving Friday. :)

There have been firmware updates. Check to see if you've got Version 3-8284.

Thanks! I'll check when I receive it. (I'm assuming my machine will have a Jan 2007 build date.)

Crutchfield mailed my unit yesterday. :) Probably arrive Monday/Tuesday.I guess they received new shipments of this (DVD-3930CI) product?

There have been firmware updates. Check to see if you've got Version 3-8284.


Are you discussing the 3930? Denon US has been claiming to me on the phone that there is not a new firmware. Is that the Euro update that you're thinking of?

I guess they received new shipments of this (DVD-3930CI) product?

Yes - finally. I ordered mine just after you received yours.

Hi

Anybody have any settings for the Denon 2930 and Pioneer 5070?

Thanks

Are you discussing the 3930? Denon US has been claiming to me on the phone that there is not a new firmware. Is that the Euro update that you're thinking of?

Yes thats the firmware update posted on the german europe support page.

Fix a lot of bugs, also the known bug of sound from analog cable's output 5.1 and of or stereo output.

flash't mine 3930 almost 2 months ago.

3930 sound's and play's now bether than before the update's.

3930 europe and usa are for the firmware regio control identical
Mean for regio 1 or 2. that's al the same.
not shure about other things in the firmware.

maybee someone can comfirm the posted firmware is 100% ok on a USA 3930

On my 3930 I sometimes experience soft crackling pops (like static clicks on vinyl) in CD and SACD playback (haven't noticed it on DVD playback yet). I use the dedicated analog stereo outputs.
If I turn the unit off (with the small switch, not the standby switch) for a a few seconds and on again the problem usually clears. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

This is one of the reason we did get in europe a firmware update to fix those bug.

Another thing I like on the DVD-3930CI is the "Display" function. When you enable the Display button the name of the song selection scrolls across the display. If you press twice it gives you "Time Remaining" on disc. I guess this is a common function across all the current line of Denon players?

Also, noticed that the song selection display works with SACD's only? Or does it also work on DVD-A's as well as CD's?

Another thing I like on the DVD-3930CI is the "Display" function. When you enable the Display button the name of the song selection scrolls across the display. If you press twice it gives you "Time Remaining" on disc. I guess this is a common function across all the current line of Denon players?

Also, noticed that the song selection display works with SACD's only? Or does it also work on DVD-A's as well as CD's?

The 2930 does the same thing, but I have run across a couple of discs where the feature didn't work. I assume the disc wasn't encoded for text.

I don't think it works on DVD-A but I will check. Also have a few CDs with text, will try them too.

Actually, can anybody comment on the quality of the 3930's 50hz->60hz conversion?
Bump.

Has nobody checked out the PAL to NTSC conversion quality on this machine?

:confused:

Well - I finally received my 3930 today from Crutchfield. January 2007 build. Love the 1080p HDMI output to my JVC D-ILA RS1. Gorgeous. I was very impressed for the 30 minutes that it remained working. Then it died. Tried unplugging it. Nada. I'm returning it tomorrow w/ my test disc still inside. Of course they are out of stock. but I'll wait. I really like the unit.

I did hear a click inside the unit - then my problems started. First the remote stopped working. Then get this. On the front panel - I would hit "drawer open" (to try and eject the disc) - and each time I hit the button - it would chapter reverse! If I hit the chapter reverse button - it would freeze. And the play button wouldn't work at all. Weird stuff.

Boy - I'm sure glad I bought it at Crutchfield w/ their great return policy. I'd sure hate to be sending it to Denon right now for repair - - or worse yet to an after-market warranty service.

I was very impressed for the 30 minutes that it remained working. Then it died. Tried unplugging it. Nada. Weird stuff.sorry to hear that :(

Every so often my unit hangs-up, no commands work on remote, or on the player itself. So I enable the small master-power button on front panel, the unit powers-off. I re-enable master power button, the unit powers-on. Then it usually comes back up okay.

sorry to hear that :(

Every so often my unit hangs-up, no commands work on remote, or on the player itself. So I enable the small master-power button on front panel, the unit powers-off. I re-enable master power button, the unit powers-on. Then it usually comes back up okay.Never had any issues in the six months or so I've owned my 3930CI.

Since I got a Blue-Ray player I've been using my 3930 mostly for listening to CD and SACD. I've noticed that it has been locking up recently. The disc just freezes. If I advance to the next cut it then plays fine. It doesn't do this very often, but it seems like it's been increasing.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

Since I got a Blue-Ray player I've been using my 3930 mostly for listening to CD and SACD. I've noticed that it has been locking up recently. The disc just freezes. If I advance to the next cut it then plays fine. It doesn't do this very often, but it seems like it's been increasing.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this?
You should report that to Denon. They've had new firmware, that's already available in Europe, but they've yet to make it available on the U.S. website. If enough people call....