Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports! [Text View] - Page 19

JOHNnDENVER

12-23-06, 07:27 AM

i thought i was clear on my setup....??f

A1-hdmi-pioneer 81vsx........no coax/optical all hdmi...yes i believe way superior set ups to mine will influence this but come on, to say i need 10,000 dollar system is unacceptable.....so, the lower volume is totally ok...i just need to crank it up?? What does dts have to do with dd true hd?

Well DTS does have something to do with it, as a fair amount of people think they are getting TrueHD when they are in fact listening to the DTS down conversion is all.

I have no explanation, that is why I keep going to the AVR your using. I did a blind A / B with several people at my house soon after I first purchased the A1, and everybody could tell and got it right when going back and fourth from TrueHD to one of the other audio tracks.

The difference seems pretty pronounced as far as audio quality differences go. I wa susing a Denon 4802 AVR as my pre/pro back then, now with the Marantz 7001 as my pre / pro the differences are even more pronounced to my ear.

I have no other real explanation of why you do not hear any differences. The quality of the AVR would be the number one logical culprit.

deez

12-23-06, 01:03 PM

Well DTS does have something to do with it, as a fair amount of people think they are getting TrueHD when they are in fact listening to the DTS down conversion is all.

I have no explanation, that is why I keep going to the AVR your using. I did a blind A / B with several people at my house soon after I first purchased the A1, and everybody could tell and got it right when going back and fourth from TrueHD to one of the other audio tracks.

The difference seems pretty pronounced as far as audio quality differences go. I wa susing a Denon 4802 AVR as my pre/pro back then, now with the Marantz 7001 as my pre / pro the differences are even more pronounced to my ear.

I have no other real explanation of why you do not hear any differences. The quality of the AVR would be the number one logical culprit.

I told you what receiver i am using and there is nothing wrong with it. I think i should have been clearer.....the title in question is "Lady in The Water"...when i went back and forth the sound was lower and less prounounced going from dd ex to tru hd....so, last night i put in Batman Begins and there i could definitely hear a difference in audio quality as the tru hd was more clearer and resolute to my ears...maybe this is a title issue???or maybe thats how it is supposed to sound and just an increase in volume is all i need to do......

mrsmith

12-23-06, 01:04 PM

As you're a dyed in the wool confirmed Bluray supporter I'll be kind and say that's not the case.

On a properly balanced system, I have had no problems at all.

That's not to say that some titles don't have mixing issues - but it's not the player.
First time I've ever been accused of supporting either hi-def optical disk format. In checking back, in fact, you'll find I've been critical not of the formats or the players, but of the current generation of disks which seem to offer only an incremental image improvement over a first-class upcon of a high-quality standard DVD. And apparently the general public agrees, if the slow sales are indicative.

In fact, I've got a chance to pick up an HD-A1 on the cheap from a private party, which at this point still looks to me as a bargain upcon machine, even forget the rest.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

12-26-06, 02:28 PM

HeadRusch

12-26-06, 03:28 PM

I can assure you that when you upgrade to a 100"+ projected image, the impact of HD will become apparrant as the negatives associated with 480p will become more obvious. At 60" you may not see any difference at all. I wasn't really "impressed" with HD until I saw it on my 110" screen. When viewing HD on my 65" set, the differences were....well..disappointing to say the least. It was like "Meh, whats the big deal again?".

The best upconverted DVD I've seen still looks soft at 110". It looks good, but it looks soft.

When you get used to watching HD, you will notice the missing crispness of the image when watching the DVD counterpart either upconverted or not. You'll notice details that are blurred out that you expect to see clearly. You'll notice that fabric seems soft, not razor sharp like in an HD image. You'll notice the way textures on objects appear life like, which is definately lost when watching a DVD, upconverted or not.

HD is all about the detail. The majority of the picture will still look the same...its the details that are suddenly definable that aren't so on DVD.

Thing is, DVD is going to be good enough for most people...particularly if you're talking about 37 or 47" sets...even 50" sets.....

slogun

12-26-06, 03:32 PM

Sorry fans, just not much bang for the buck here. The HD-DVD player is worth about 50-bucks more than a good-quality upcon machine, but nothing like $499-plus MSRP. No way Jose.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
$499 plus MSRP?
It was easy to get this model for much less than the then-normal selling price of $400 as far back as August when I purchased mine.
While I may agree with you that there is not a tremendous difference between viewing an HD-DVD vs a Standard DVD upconverted on this machine on my 61"1080P DLP, many of us are willing to pay the price of admission to the early adopters club.

I stand by my signature...

lujan

12-26-06, 04:43 PM

$499 plus MSRP?
It was easy to get this model for much less than the then-normal selling price of $400 as far back as August when I purchased mine.
While I may agree with you that there is not a tremendous difference between viewing an HD-DVD vs a Standard DVD upconverted on this machine on my 61"1080P DLP, many of us are willing to pay the price of admission to the early adopters club.

I stand by my signature...

I got mine on 4/17/06 and I'm glad I did. I love the HD crispness and I can certainly tell the difference even on my 62" set. I tested the difference on the first dual (or combo) disk. I think it was "Rumor Has It". I viewed the HD DVD side and then memorized a particular scene (I believe it was when the actors were on the plane). I then turned the disk over to the SD side and yes, you could definitely tell the difference. You don't necessarily need a 100"+ screen to be able to tell the difference. I am one of those early adopters and don't mind paying for it.

mrsmith

12-26-06, 05:40 PM

I got mine on 4/17/06 and I'm glad I did. I love the HD crispness and I can certainly tell the difference even on my 62" set. I tested the difference on the first dual (or combo) disk. I think it was "Rumor Has It". I viewed the HD DVD side and then memorized a particular scene (I believe it was when the actors were on the plane). I then turned the disk over to the SD side and yes, you could definitely tell the difference. You don't necessarily need a 100"+ screen to be able to tell the difference. I am one of those early adopters and don't mind paying for it.
No argument from me that these hi-def optical disk formats produce a "better" image - they DO. But that's not the issue, at least not to me.

The question is, is it worth $499-plus MSRP for the player and $25-plus MSRP for the disks for the incremental improvement? That is the key question, and apparently the public to date is saying NO if the slow sales are indicative - and that has been the decision by majority of the nation's professional reviewers.

And now that I've got one myself(albeit on the cheap) this has confirmed what I had seen for months in the stores. The price I paid is what I think it's worth(about $50 more than a good upon machine), and I could not honestly advise anyone else to pay anything close to the prevailing street prices. A caveat: I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with either the hi-def optical disk formats OR the players, but instead the problem has got to be in the hi-def disk transfers to date. This kind of horsepower should produce a HUGE image premium over upcon'd standards, but it doesn't. If the purported current transfer rate on HD-DVD disks at 12 - 15mbps is accurate, that would explain it. D-VHS is/was in the high 20's, and many on-air/cable/satellite HD is in the high teens(for filmed entertainment, ever see the CSI series on OTA CBS-DT? Now that's hi-def, and VASTLY better, IMO, than anything I've seen on disk so far). If the image on these disks was anything like THAT, I'd become a true believer overnight.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

12-26-06, 05:46 PM

deez

12-26-06, 06:28 PM

No argument from me that these hi-def optical disk formats produce a "better" image - they DO. But that's not the issue, at least not to me.

The question is, is it worth $499-plus MSRP for the player and $25-plus MSRP for the disks for the incremental improvement? That is the key question, and apparently the public to date is saying NO if the slow sales are indicative - and that has been the decision by majority of the nation's professional reviewers.

And now that I've got one myself(albeit on the cheap) this has confirmed what I had seen for months in the stores. The price I paid is what I think it's worth(about $50 more than a good upon machine), and I could not honestly advise anyone else to pay anything close to the prevailing street prices. A caveat: I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with either the hi-def optical disk formats OR the players, but instead the problem has got to be in the hi-def disk transfers to date. This kind of horsepower should produce a HUGE image premium over upcon'd standards, but it doesn't. If the purported current transfer rate on HD-DVD disks at 12 - 15mbps is accurate, that would explain it. D-VHS is/was in the high 20's, and many on-air/cable/satellite HD is in the high teens(for filmed entertainment, ever see the CSI series on OTA CBS-DT? Now that's hi-def, and VASTLY better, IMO, than anything I've seen on disk so far). If the image on these disks was anything like THAT, I'd become a true believer overnight.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

I appreciate your opinion but incremental improvement?? That is hilarious....

eXgo

12-26-06, 06:37 PM

^^ no doubt.. he knows he has to use a HDTV capable display right?

Jive Turkey

12-26-06, 06:51 PM

I compared a rental HD-DVD of 'The Italian Job' with my standard DVD of the same film, viewed using my Momitsu V880 upcon'd to 1080i(same resolution, with sharpness control jacked back up to 'normal'). Once again as in my previous comparisons at the stores, there is remarkably little difference in the image quality on a first-class transfer like this one. The razor-like sharpness of backgrounds on the HD-DVD are notably better, and details of the water surface are immediately visible whereas it's kind of soft on the STD-DVD. One other thing on this particular title comparison, is that the overall brightness of the image on the HD-DVD is better than on the standard.
Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

"The Italian Job" is probably not a good HD-DVD to compare against Standard DVD, if you want to see true difference. Most folks report this HD-DVD to be soft in nature. I'd spend more time comparing discs like "King Kong" or "Seabiscuit" if you want to understand what is capable of a movie that was intended to "be sharper" and was transferred well.

lujan

12-26-06, 07:00 PM

"The Italian Job" is probably not a good HD-DVD to compare against Standard DVD, if you want to see true difference. Most folks report this HD-DVD to be soft in nature. I'd spend more time comparing discs like "King Kong" or "Seabiscuit" if you want to understand what is capable of a movie that was intended to "be sharper" and was transferred well.

Another good example would be "Aeon Flux" which has excellent video in HD.

mrsmith

12-27-06, 02:21 PM

I appreciate your opinion but incremental improvement?? That is hilarious....
I don't know if it's 'hilarious' or not, but whether it's true is the issue. The majority of the nation's professional reviewers apparently are seeing what I am. Another description of the image improvement I'd give it, it's a little like looking at a good upcon on steroids in the sense that the backgrounds in particular are much sharper, but for the rest just not that great a difference. Other posters here readily admitted also that there wasn't much differnece at 61-inch screen size, but that over 100-inches there is a really big improvement.

So, that's where the term 'incremental' comes in. Sad to say, I've also experienced over the last few months on several different displays at the stores some cases where an upcon'd standard DVD is actually every bit as good - or better - than the HD equivalent where one is available. I think it's DVDtalk.com that rates the SuperBit standard DVD of 'The Fifth Element' upconverted in that category. How much of this is attributable to transfer quality of the Blu-Ray disk, is anyone's guess. For me, I'm little impressed, overall, with any of the hi-def transfers when compared with some D-VHS(about 29 mbps) or filmed network entertainment at
around 19mbps. These disks just don't seem to have the 'oomph' they should.

Additionally, where money is no object, a Meridian G5(no upcon, about $3,500) on a 12-foot curved front-projection screen will just blow away ANYTHING I've seen off the high-def disks - and that's using standard DVDs.

'You pays yo' money an' you takes yo' pick', so there it is. For me, $50-bucks more than a good upcon machine, is what I paid and I think, what it's worth.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

kanefsky

12-27-06, 02:44 PM

Additionally, where money is no object, a Meridian G5(no upcon, about $3,500) on a 12-foot curved front-projection screen will just blow away ANYTHING I've seen off the high-def disks - and that's using standard DVDs.

And I suppose that a $50,000 VHS deck would blow away both the Meridian and HD-DVD :)

--
Steve

Chuck Smith

12-27-06, 02:47 PM

kanefsky

12-27-06, 03:08 PM

I guess everyone is different. Even on my 40'' LCD I can see a huge difference in HD DVD's and SD DVD's. I was actually worried that I wouldn't see that much of a difference because of my screen size, but that worry didn't last long.

It's not size it's resolution and viewing angle. You'll notice more of a difference sitting up close to the 17" Toshiba laptop than you would on a 110" image from a 720p projector.

--
Steve

mrsmith

12-27-06, 04:24 PM

And I suppose that a $50,000 VHS deck would blow away both the Meridian and HD-DVD :)

--
Steve
I'm comparing DVD players, you are not.

VHS has little to do as to a comparison with optical disk formats on a head-to-head current-day basis, and so I believe your analogy, or attempted analogy, is meaningless. Sorry.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

kanefsky

12-27-06, 04:37 PM

I'm comparing DVD players
No you're not. HD DVD and DVD are completely different formats, just like DVD and VHS are different formats.

HD DVD stores images at 1920x1080, 24 progressive frames per second using a blue-laser optical format. DVD stores images at 720x480, 60 interlaced fields per second using a red-laser optical format. Virtually all HD DVDs are also using a completely different compression codec than DVD. So they're different on pretty much every level.

--
Steve

deez

12-27-06, 07:23 PM

I don't know if it's 'hilarious' or not, but whether it's true is the issue. The majority of the nation's professional reviewers apparently are seeing what I am. Another description of the image improvement I'd give it, it's a little like looking at a good upcon on steroids in the sense that the backgrounds in particular are much sharper, but for the rest just not that great a difference. Other posters here readily admitted also that there wasn't much differnece at 61-inch screen size, but that over 100-inches there is a really big improvement.

So, that's where the term 'incremental' comes in. Sad to say, I've also experienced over the last few months on several different displays at the stores some cases where an upcon'd standard DVD is actually every bit as good - or better - than the HD equivalent where one is available. I think it's DVDtalk.com that rates the SuperBit standard DVD of 'The Fifth Element' upconverted in that category. How much of this is attributable to transfer quality of the Blu-Ray disk, is anyone's guess. For me, I'm little impressed, overall, with any of the hi-def transfers when compared with some D-VHS(about 29 mbps) or filmed network entertainment at
around 19mbps. These disks just don't seem to have the 'oomph' they should.

Additionally, where money is no object, a Meridian G5(no upcon, about $3,500) on a 12-foot curved front-projection screen will just blow away ANYTHING I've seen off the high-def disks - and that's using standard DVDs.

'You pays yo' money an' you takes yo' pick', so there it is. For me, $50-bucks more than a good upcon machine, is what I paid and I think, what it's worth.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Who are these professional reviewers that say HD DVD is a minor improvement in PQ??...please post links i would like to read these reviews....

lujan

12-27-06, 07:46 PM

Who are these professional reviewers that say HD DVD is a minor improvement in PQ??...please post links i would like to read these reviews....

Here's a link that just says the opposite which I agree:

http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html

mrsmith

12-28-06, 02:41 PM

No you're not. HD DVD and DVD are completely different formats, just like DVD and VHS are different formats.

HD DVD stores images at 1920x1080, 24 progressive frames per second using a blue-laser optical format. DVD stores images at 720x480, 60 interlaced fields per second using a red-laser optical format. Virtually all HD DVDs are also using a completely different compression codec than DVD. So they're different on pretty much every level.

--
Steve
Well, that's a classic case of a distinction without a difference:

DVD is DVD is DVD, whether it's a red laser, a blue laser, one codec or another, one resolution or another. While the hi-def optical formats are "new", they are in any case nothing more than evolutionary versions of the same thing(and it looks as if we're to be introduced to the 1-terabyte format within about 2-years out, just another evolution of the same). Nothing like the comparison of VHS with DVD; the former being a tape medium wholly unrelated to disk. Now if you were to compare, say, beta with VHS I would agree, but not what you're suggesting here.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

12-28-06, 02:58 PM

Who are these professional reviewers that say HD DVD is a minor improvement in PQ??...please post links i would like to read these reviews....
The source material has been annotated in detail since the hi-def optical disk formats were first introduced early this year. You will find them by searching on my posts both in this forum and in DVDfile.com.

Among them are L.A. Times Research(Colker), Pogue in the New York Times, chief honcho Bill in thedigitalbits.com, the influential online magazine Slate, WSR, and many more. These are referenced because - particularly the L.A. and N.Y. Times - they're publications of record, the authors and their employers are identified and they have the research departments to back up what they say. This is very different from what is shown in these blogs, where the posters are anonymous and - for all we know - could easily be shills for the manufacturers or the movie studios(which I suspect is often the case). This applies to you and me, of course. How do you know the true identities and employers of anonymous posters?

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

deez

12-28-06, 03:02 PM

The source material has been annotated in detail since the hi-def optical disk formats were first introduced early this year. You will find them by searching on my posts both in this forum and in DVDfile.com.

Among them are L.A. Times Research(Colker), Pogue in the New York Times, chief honcho Bill in thedigitalbits.com, the influential online magazine Slate, WSR, and many more. These are referenced because - particularly the L.A. and N.Y. Times - they're publications of record, the authors and their employers are identified and they have the research departments to back up what they say. This is very different from what is shown in these blogs, where the posters are anonymous and - for all we know - could easily be shills for the manufacturers or the movie studios(which I suspect is often the case). This applies to you and me, of course. How do you know the true identities and employers of anonymous posters?

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

I do not believe that any of these publications clearly say that these new HD formats are slightly better than upscaled dvd......again, just post direct links...actually dont because this is obviously your opinion and you probably work for the manufacturer of an upscaling dvd player....lol

kanefsky

12-28-06, 03:27 PM

Well, that's a classic case of a distinction without a difference:

DVD is DVD is DVD, whether it's a red laser, a blue laser, one codec or another, one resolution or another. While the hi-def optical formats are "new", they are in any case nothing more than evolutionary versions of the same thing

Exactly what do you think makes it the "same thing"? Is it the fact that they're both stored on round pieces of plastic?

I suppose in that case you think that D-VHS is just an evolutionary version of VHS and so there's no real difference there either. A really good VHS deck will make a regular VHS tape look just as good as any D-VHS tape, right?

--
Steve

mrsmith

12-28-06, 03:35 PM

I do not believe that any of these publications clearly say that these new HD formats are slightly better than upscaled dvd......again, just post direct links...actually dont because this is obviously your opinion and you probably work for the manufacturer of an upscaling dvd player....lol
That is precisely what they DO say(the same Toshiba and Samsung players were used to view both the hi-def and standard DVDs): in fact, I believe it was the first L.A. Times research article which so provoked Toshiba that they pulled their corporate advertising. Then, in its initial review of BluRay, the L.A. Times stated that it took a jumbo front projection screen to really tell the difference(a later BluRay article found at least one BluRay disk to produce a noticeable difference on a 37-inch screen).

I've posted the detailed annotations so often from early this year that I'm not going to do it yet again - they're all there for anyone wishing to locate them. An interesting result of those posters that did read the professional reviews: they criticized the particular disks used, or some of the methodology, but could never undercut the basic premise, that there just isn't that much difference between a first class upcon of a high-qualkity standard DVD and a 'native' hi-def. Instead, the posters gave their own personal opinions of how much better they believed the image to be, but without any other technical backing to support it. Further, if you will go back as much as three years, I repeatedly made an offer of up to $10,000 for an independent 'double-blind'(no pun intended) study by Consumers Reports to compare these standards on the general public. Of course, despite repeated attempts, I got no takers, simply because the public is neither blind nor stupid(all the details are available in these blogs, and the offer was pulled after years of loudmouths failed to come up with the personal cash to try and debunk my assertion). The simple fact of the matter is that these hi-def optical disk formats(and going back to D-VHS) ARE better than upcons, but just not that much - and that IMO is why they're such a slow sell.

For the record, I'm a retired financial services executive in L.A., have no connection whatsoever with any manufacturer, studio or anyone or anything remotely connected with this industry. I'm just an H/T enthusiast interested in moving these formats forward by trying to counter and debunk so much of the P/R nonsense being peddled by the proponents. And that, basically, is just what the effect of the professional reviews have been as well.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

redjr

12-28-06, 03:36 PM

Here's a link that just says the opposite which I agree:

http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html
Very nice work lujan. I agree, that the SD transfers of the trilogy are indeed superior, and thus the difference between HD are not as striking. Of course I don't need convincing. I'm a firm believer in the HD difference! :)

mrsmith

12-28-06, 04:02 PM

Exactly what do you think makes it the "same thing"? Is it the fact that they're both stored on round pieces of plastic?

I suppose in that case you think that D-VHS is just an evolutionary version of VHS and so there's no real difference there either. A really good VHS deck will make a regular VHS tape look just as good as any D-VHS tape, right?

--
Steve
For the most part, that's correct.

It is apparent that D-VHS could not have occurred without its VHS precursor, and the hi-def optical disk formats could not have arisen before standard DVDs. These are evolutionary developments, and will continue as such - much as the 1-terabyte format will do as well in a couple years. It's a daisychain of technical development, and little more. By comparison, to use an extreme analogy, if you were suddenly to produce a medium that could store a movie on your fingernail, well then that would be revolutionary and not evolutionary. That is the point of the difference.

A distinction without a difference indeed.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

kanefsky

12-28-06, 04:27 PM

It is apparent that D-VHS could not have occurred without its VHS precursor, and the hi-def optical disk formats could not have arisen before standard DVDs. These are evolutionary developments, and will continue as such - much as the 1-terabyte format will do as well in a couple years. It's a daisychain of technical development, and little more. By comparison, to use an extreme analogy, if you were suddenly to produce a medium that could store a movie on your fingernail, well then that would be revolutionary and not evolutionary. That is the point of the difference

You seem to be confusing the medium with the content stored on that medium and coming to the incorrect conclusion that anything stored on a 12cm optical disc is no better than SD DVD. The medium is irrelevant. You can store sub-VHS quality material on a DVD or you could store lossless 100 megapixel still images. But in your mind they're all "evolutionary" and thus there is no fundamental difference in quality. Good luck with that :)

--
Steve

redjr

12-28-06, 07:01 PM

mrsmith

12-28-06, 07:48 PM

You seem to be confusing the medium with the content stored on that medium and coming to the incorrect conclusion that anything stored on a 12cm optical disc is no better than SD DVD. The medium is irrelevant. You can store sub-VHS quality material on a DVD or you could store lossless 100 megapixel still images. But in your mind they're all "evolutionary" and thus there is no fundamental difference in quality. Good luck with that :)

--
Steve
Have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, as you are entering the realm of Marshall McLuhan so many years ago but: the medium, in this case, is NOT the message.

I'm referring exclusively to the generic term 'DVD'(digital video disk/digital versatile disk) as a means to store data of any quality desired. All the latest hi-def optical disk format does is, by means of an evolved laser, allow storage of much more densely packed information than had heretofore been available; that, in turn, has made possible HD-DVD/Blu-Ray product versions of much of the same material which prior was at a lower resolution because - in part - there was less storage space available.

In contrast, you are suggesting that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is a wholly new item, when in fact it is not: evolved yes, revolutionary not at all. Nor is the upcoming 1-terabyte format revolutionary either as it too is merely evolving from its DVD roots.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

redjr

12-28-06, 11:08 PM

Have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, as you are entering the realm of Marshall McLuhan so many years ago but: the medium, in this case, is NOT the message.

I'm referring exclusively to the generic term 'DVD'(digital video disk/digital versatile disk) as a means to store data of any quality desired. All the latest hi-def optical disk format does is, by means of an evolved laser, allow storage of much more densely packed information than had heretofore been available; that, in turn, has made possible HD-DVD/Blu-Ray product versions of much of the same material which prior was at a lower resolution because - in part - there was less storage space available.

In contrast, you are suggesting that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is a wholly new item, when in fact it is not: evolved yes, revolutionary not at all. Nor is the upcoming 1-terabyte format revolutionary either as it too is merely evolving from its DVD roots.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com
Wasn't this(your) recent thread argument a basis for not being able to justify the cost/value of HD-DVD for such an 'incremental' increase in HD PQ? Whether the medium and method is evolutionary or revolutionary is not the point of that perceived value! The value of anything (including HD-DVD) is relative and it's worth, for perceived value will vary with different individuals. Unless I'm mistaken, you cannot 'justify' the cost of HD for the little incremental PQ you enjoy, and an HD-DVD(or Blu-Ray) player offers little over a quality upconverter player. For many of us Toshiba A1 series owners this is a moot point. The quality of HD, IMO surpasses anything I've seen on SD and my 'value' thus far has been well served for my HD purchasing $. :)

Kosty

12-29-06, 02:47 AM

Well, picked up my used HD-A1 from a private party over the weekend on the cheap, and hooked it up to my 65-inch CRT HDTV(component).

The results on this type of display were pretty consistent with what I've seen over the last few months on HDMI-connected, newer technology at various stores. The image is a little sharper(particularly in the backgrounds) the general quality of the sound overall is better, but surprisingly, the color saturation on this display appears little different. The CRT produces much darker blacks and brighter whites than the LCD/DLP/plasmas, but that's about it. One irritating thing about this machine, is an instruction that the 'sharpness' control on the HDTV be set back, and in fact I found that a necessity: until it is, the image is extremely grainy but once done it's fine. The machine kind of stuttered once or twice but quickly recovered.

I compared a rental HD-DVD of 'The Italian Job' with my standard DVD of the same film, viewed using my Momitsu V880 upcon'd to 1080i(same resolution, with sharpness control jacked back up to 'normal'). Once again as in my previous comparisons at the stores, there is remarkably little difference in the image quality on a first-class transfer like this one. The razor-like sharpness of backgrounds on the HD-DVD are notably better, and details of the water surface are immediately visible whereas it's kind of soft on the STD-DVD. One other thing on this particular title comparison, is that the overall brightness of the image on the HD-DVD is better than on the standard.

For the little difference I've seen I just can't imagine paying $499-plus MSRP for these players and $25-plus MSRP for the disks. But for the pocket change I paid for this player, it'll be a good upcon machine at such future time I replace my display with an HDMI model. In the meantime, it's rentals only of the hi-def disks and continued purchase of the standard dvd of the same film which additionally can be viewed on my car player and laptop.

Sorry fans, just not much bang for the buck here. The HD-DVD player is worth about 50-bucks more than a good-quality upcon machine, but nothing like $499-plus MSRP. No way Jose.

Enjoy!
Well, why buy a good upconverting player for $199 when you can get a HD DVD player for $399 than not only upconverts it plays HD DVDs as well?

there is remarkably little difference in the image quality on a first-class transfer like this one. The razor-like sharpness of backgrounds on the HD-DVD are notably better, and details of the water surface are immediately visible whereas it's kind of soft on the STD-DVD. One other thing on this particular title comparison, is that the overall brightness of the image on the HD-DVD is better than on the standard. The IJ isn't the best HD DVD image out there, but that's one of key advantages of HD DVD. The background information. An upconverted SD DVD just can't create pixels out of nothing with as much detail as an HD DVD, and HD DVD gives a lot more bandwidth and pixel density to teh background. It adds realism.

On thing though, HD DVD looks better and better at larger screen sizes. Even though I too have been pleaseantly surprised at the HD XA1 upconversion, I can still tell the difference between HD DVD and upconverted DVD on my 110 in front projected image.

I can assure you that when you upgrade to a 100"+ projected image, the impact of HD will become apparrant as the negatives associated with 480p will become more obvious. At 60" you may not see any difference at all. I wasn't really "impressed" with HD until I saw it on my 110" screen. When viewing HD on my 65" set, the differences were....well..disappointing to say the least. It was like "Meh, whats the big deal again?".

The best upconverted DVD I've seen still looks soft at 110". It looks good, but it looks soft.

When you get used to watching HD, you will notice the missing crispness of the image when watching the DVD counterpart either upconverted or not. You'll notice details that are blurred out that you expect to see clearly. You'll notice that fabric seems soft, not razor sharp like in an HD image. You'll notice the way textures on objects appear life like, which is definately lost when watching a DVD, upconverted or not.

HD is all about the detail. The majority of the picture will still look the same...its the details that are suddenly definable that aren't so on DVD.

Thing is, DVD is going to be good enough for most people...particularly if you're talking about 37 or 47" sets...even 50" sets.....

Agree mostly. although most people start to notice HD DVD detail on a 40 inch screen. Blu-ray titles have been a bit softer, so it needs a bit larger screen to see a difference. On a 1080p screen its more obvious than a 720p one.

The bottom line is that HD DVD prices are dropping quicker than Blu-ray ones so there is less cost differential to justify over buying a good upconverting player. And of course as of now the PS3, the lowest cost Blu-ray palyer, doesn't upconvert standard DVD at all.

I consider the SD upconversion of my HD DVD player a great surprise bonus. but I still can tell the difference over and upconverted SD DVD, in the background detail and overall depth of field.

mrsmith

12-29-06, 02:12 PM

Wasn't this(your) recent thread argument a basis for not being able to justify the cost/value of HD-DVD for such an 'incremental' increase in HD PQ? Whether the medium and method is evolutionary or revolutionary is not the point of that perceived value! The value of anything (including HD-DVD) is relative and it's worth, for perceived value will vary with different individuals. Unless I'm mistaken, you cannot 'justify' the cost of HD for the little incremental PQ you enjoy, and an HD-DVD(or Blu-Ray) player offers little over a quality upconverter player. For many of us Toshiba A1 series owners this is a moot point. The quality of HD, IMO surpasses anything I've seen on SD and my 'value' thus far has been well served for my HD purchasing $. :)
Sure, if to you it's worth a $499-plus MSRP for the player and $25-plus MSRP for the disks, then who could argue with your enjoyment of that investment? If it does it for you, that's all that counts.

But, once again, that's not the point. My posts, plus most professional reviews across the country, have been consistent. The hi-def optical disk formats ARE better, but hardly worth the premium to date: the proof is in the pudding, goes the old saying, and the slow retail sales so far have confirmed that the general public just doesn't see the value you attach to these formats. Just look at the piles of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray titles at the stores from one week to the next, and it's obvious they're just not moving. And, ever notice that nowhere - NOWHERE - can you locate hard net retail sales numbers(retail sales less returns) on the players and the disks?

So far, it's a big nothing. The influential online magazine SLATE has perhaps said it best so far: the hi-def optical disk formats are 'dead on arrival'.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

kjack

12-29-06, 02:25 PM

So far, it's a big nothing.Seems to me that some have extremely unrealistic expectation at how fast a new technology can take off.

RichB

12-29-06, 02:50 PM

But, once again, that's not the point. My posts, plus most professional reviews across the country, have been consistent. The hi-def optical disk formats ARE better, but hardly worth the premium to date: the proof is in the pudding, goes the old saying, and the slow retail sales so far have confirmed that the general public just doesn't see the value you attach to these formats. Just look at the piles of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray titles at the stores from one week to the next, and it's obvious they're just not moving. And, ever notice that nowhere - NOWHERE - can you locate hard net retail sales numbers(retail sales less returns) on the players and the disks?

Not Professional DVD reviewers, they are consistent in seeing vast improvements over DVD. Perhaps Slate and other pontificators...

BTW, can you tell the difference between Tara Conner and Rosie O'Donnell on your display, if not, that could be the source of the problem ;)

- Rich

deez

12-29-06, 03:16 PM

mrsmith

12-29-06, 05:29 PM

Not Professional DVD reviewers, they are consistent in seeing vast improvements over DVD. Perhaps Slate and other pontificators...

BTW, can you tell the difference between Tara Conner and Rosie O'Donnell on your display, if not, that could be the source of the problem ;)

- Rich
Apparently you have not read L.A. Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt on the digitalbits.com, and others. They specifically state the reverse of what you are saying, so I have no idea whatever what you're referring to. These are major publications of record, with identified authors and employers - and not some anonymous posters(like you and me) who might be nothing but shills for the manufacturers or movie studios as I suspect.

Their reviews have been consistent, stating that the difference is either negligible, or that it is noticeable only on very large jumbo screens(Colker recently stated that at least one BluRay title for the first time produced a noticeable difference on a 37-inch HDTV). In the case of Bill Hunt's review with Colker on BluRay, they were in surprising agreement of how little was the difference except for a jumbo front projection screen.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

slogun

12-29-06, 05:37 PM

mrsmith

12-29-06, 05:47 PM

Seems to me that some have extremely unrealistic expectation at how fast a new technology can take off.
If the general public perceives a real value at a price they're willing to pay, it will not only take off, but do so at an extraordinary pace: you need only look at the sales of the PS3, with MSRP at some $100 more than that of the HD-A1/A2. I just don't believe that people are either blind nor stupid, and to date they obviously have been unimpressed with these hi-def optical disk formats. Notice that hard net retail sales numbers(retail sales less returns) are impossible to find for the players and the disks? With some 50-million HDTVs in use(WSR 12/2006), I don't think it's any mystery why these real numbers are unavailable.

BTW, your Sigma Designs EM8500 which powers my "ancient" Momitsu V880 upcon player still does a very good job, so keep up the good work on newer-yet products. I've recently purchased a used HD-A1 from a private party on the cheap and will keep it - if for nothing else - as a replacement upcon player should my V880 die, and/or I replace my HDTV with a newer HDMI-equipped model.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

deez

12-29-06, 06:05 PM

Why this thread is here i have no idea.....and now you have just bought an a1??But didnt you say that it was not a worthwhile investment??
You have lost all credibility here.....

mrsmith

12-29-06, 06:08 PM

OK guys, Milt doesn't care too much for HD-DVD.
Why someone wants to jump on a thread dedicated to that topic and rant is beyond me, but how about we just drop it now....it's become tiresome.

Check my sig...
"...doesn't care too much for HD-DVD"? Where did you see that? As you can see, I even went so far as to buy a used HD-A1, on the cheap to be sure because that's all I perceived its value to be.

I've never stated an opinion per se on either of these hi-def optical disk formats, other than I don't think they represent that much of an image improvement over a first-class upcon. And majority of the nation's professional reviewers seem to agree, But, most of all, and where it really counts, the general public is voting with what really matters: its wallets.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

RichB

12-29-06, 07:13 PM

Apparently you have not read L.A. Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt on the digitalbits.com, and others. They specifically state the reverse of what you are saying, so I have no idea whatever what you're referring to. These are major publications of record, with identified authors and employers - and not some anonymous posters(like you and me) who might be nothing but shills for the manufacturers or movie studios as I suspect.

Their reviews have been consistent, stating that the difference is either negligible, or that it is noticeable only on very large jumbo screens(Colker recently stated that at least one BluRay title for the first time produced a noticeable difference on a 37-inch HDTV). In the case of Bill Hunt's review with Colker on BluRay, they were in surprising agreement of how little was the difference except for a jumbo front projection screen.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Why don't you quote Bill then, not that it matters. I have a 65" Plasma and it is not named Jumbo. Even though it only have about 1/2 the pixels of HD DVD, it is much clearer, no Y/C delay and sharp as a tack.

So what's your point, a 37-inch screen does not a home theater make. Astounding :D

Why don't you just let us ignore the "experts" and believe our lying eyes :D

- Rich

vhato

12-29-06, 07:58 PM

I can't believe what I am reading. Even my 62 year old father-in-law was stoked when he called me to drive over and check out the differences between King Kong DVD and HD-DVD. And he reads the paper on the floor while standing. He only has a 37" Sharp Aquos at that. My 50" makes it even more evident!

redjr

12-29-06, 08:36 PM

Yes, this is getting old.... out. :)

deez

12-29-06, 09:03 PM

I really think mr smith is doing this for attention because he sounds fairly intelligent...

BasicBlak

12-29-06, 09:03 PM

Let's squash this pissing contest PLEASE!!! Last I checked, this is the A1 - First End Users Reports thread. There's entirely too much valuable information contained herein to have it sullied with all this foolishness. You've made your points, now let's stay on topic. Nothing to see here, folks...These aren't the droids you're looking for...Move along...Move along!

zapper

12-29-06, 09:13 PM

mrsmith

12-30-06, 02:19 PM

I really think mr smith is doing this for attention because he sounds fairly intelligent...
Never accused of that.

I've been sort of convinced from these Boards that I am, instead, blind or stupid - or both. In fact, I've gradually become convinced that ALL who share my opinions must surely be blind or stupid as well, and that includes L.A.Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt, and so many more. I thought this bunch of us should band together somehow for a quantity discount on white canes off of eBay or someplace.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

12-30-06, 02:36 PM

Why this thread is here i have no idea.....and now you have just bought an a1??But didnt you say that it was not a worthwhile investment??
You have lost all credibility here.....
I bought it only because I got it for pocket change. If nothing else, it'll make for a good upcon player if and when my V880 dies. And today's announcement on p2p.net that the AACS encryption on HD-DVD disks has been busted may make the machine of greater intrinsic value.

But, most of all, I'm confident that sooner or later these hi-def optical disks will be greatly improved with something like SuperBit HD-DVD or SuperBit Blu-Ray. In the meantime I just can't imzgine anyone actually paying anything close to the prevailing street prices for these players given the relatively small jump in image quality.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

slogun

12-30-06, 09:00 PM

zapper

12-30-06, 09:48 PM

Hi all.
I'd just like to jump in on this Toshiba HD-A1 thread and tell all the happy owners that I just picked up a used one for a whole lot less than the going price.

I think the player produces a picture that is not much of an improvement and you can basically read between my lines that I think anyone who paid any more than I did (pocket change) for this player is a dang fool.

Enjoy!

Oh, sorry, please ignore this post. Looks like someone has already been saying this ad nauseam over the past several says.

I agree with you, their is a fool born every minute, all that YOU have to do to find one is to look at your mirror. :D

redjr

12-30-06, 10:59 PM

Hi all.
I'd just like to jump in on this Toshiba HD-A1 thread and tell all the happy owners that I just picked up a used one for a whole lot less than the going price.

I think the player produces a picture that is not much of an improvement and you can basically read between my lines that I think anyone who paid any more than I did (pocket change) for this player is a dang fool.

Enjoy!

Oh, sorry, please ignore this post. Looks like someone has already been saying this ad nauseam over the past several says.
Is this your form of comic relief, or is there something serious and worthwhile you'd like to add to this discussion?

firefighter81

12-31-06, 01:36 AM

Hey MrSmith and Slogun:

You realize there is a whole other side to this argument that you are forgetting (as do most people it seems), AUDIO QUALITY. When someone has the proper equipment to process TrueHD, DTS-HD, and LPCM the improvement in the movie soundtrack is huge! I couldn't believe my own ears the first time I put in a HD DVD and Blu-ray movie and listened to it. It's incredible.

JimP

12-31-06, 05:37 AM

Don't feed the trolls.

rdjam

12-31-06, 11:44 AM

Dear Mods - due to extended trolling here in the A1 HD DVD thread, could you look at cleaning up a couple of troll posts and getting this thread back on track?

Thank you and Amen...

slogun

12-31-06, 11:57 AM

Hi all.
I'd just like to jump in on this Toshiba HD-A1 thread and tell all the happy owners that I just picked up a used one for a whole lot less than the going price.

I think the player produces a picture that is not much of an improvement and you can basically read between my lines that I think anyone who paid any more than I did (pocket change) for this player is a dang fool.

Enjoy!

Oh, sorry, please ignore this post. Looks like someone has already been saying this ad nauseam over the past several says.

Apparently some people didn't recognize that my post as above was a mockery of the troll who's been baiting HD-A1 owners the past few days and who may or may not be aware of how obnoxious he sounds.
In actuality, I've been a happy HD-A1 owner since August when I bought mine new from BB.

rdjam

12-31-06, 12:09 PM

No probs, Slogun - I was referring to the "extended troller" also :)

SamwisetheBrave

12-31-06, 04:29 PM

Apparently some people didn't recognize that my post as above was a mockery of the troll who's been baiting HD-A1 owners the past few days and who may or may not be aware of how obnoxious he sounds.
In actuality, I've been a happy HD-A1 owner since August when I bought mine new from BB.
Yikes! Your parody was too spot on for folks to get the joke. :D
I mean the poor guy (while clearly trolling) actually seems to believe he's right and everyone else is wrong. :p
Reminds me of the scene in Cleopatra where Marc Antony rides out alone to confront an entire Roman army.

mrsmith

12-31-06, 06:18 PM

Yikes! Your parody was too spot on for folks to get the joke. :D
I mean the poor guy (while clearly trolling) actually seems to believe he's right and everyone else is wrong. :p
Reminds me of the scene in Cleopatra where Marc Antony rides out alone to confront an entire Roman army.
No, I don't think I'm right at all. I'm just in the same boat with majority of the nation's poor dumb professional reviewers(L.A. Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the New York Times, Bill Hunt, and so many others) who are either blind or stupid -- or both. This group is trying to band together so we can purchase white canes with a volume discount on eBay or Costco, or someplace.

Pity us, pity us! We're blind to the truth - that ultimate truth as handed down by the manufacturers, the movie studios and their other hacks, flacks and flunkies. Whoa is us, whoa is us! Oh, the horror! The horror of not being able to see that vast ray of the sunshine of truth, being handed down from Toshiba, Sony, Warner Brothers, 20th Century and others. HOW CAN WE NOT SEE IT? OH HOW, OH HOW?! Now, as the sadness descends upon me, I roll into a ball and cry, begging - BEGGING you hear, for the truth to descend upon me.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

slogun

12-31-06, 06:25 PM

"report post" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/report.php?p=9323472)

rdjam

12-31-06, 08:24 PM

OK look, Milt - you've had days and days of fun trolling in the "HD DVD A1 First End User Reports Thread" now.
Haven't you had enough - you are losing your respect fast... No, I don't think I'm right at all. I'm just in the same boat with majority of the nation's poor dumb professional reviewers(L.A. Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the New York Times, Bill Hunt, and so many others) who are either blind or stupid -- or both. This group is trying to band together so we can purchase white canes with a volume discount on eBay or Costco, or someplace.

Pity us, pity us! We're blind to the truth - that ultimate truth as handed down by the manufacturers, the movie studios and their other hacks, flacks and flunkies. Whoa is us, whoa is us! Oh, the horror! The horror of not being able to see that vast ray of the sunshine of truth, being handed down from Toshiba, Sony, Warner Brothers, 20th Century and others. HOW CAN WE NOT SEE IT? OH HOW, OH HOW?! Now, as the sadness descends upon me, I roll into a ball and cry, begging - BEGGING you hear, for the truth to descend upon me.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

rdjam

12-31-06, 08:25 PM

Happy New Year, everyone!

deafandblindfan

01-01-07, 03:23 AM

any reg dvd region hack for this player yet? i read on videohelp that you can take out the drive and hook it up to a computer to reset the region but that doesn't seem too wise...

JOHNnDENVER

01-01-07, 06:25 AM

Hmmmm Got a link to that? I'd give it a go.

JimP

01-01-07, 08:38 AM

OK look, Milt - you've had days and days of fun trolling in the "HD DVD A1 First End User Reports Thread" now.
Haven't you had enough - you are losing your respect fast...

You say that as if any of us had any respect for this troll to start with. :rolleyes:

SamwisetheBrave

01-01-07, 08:56 AM

Happy New Year! :)

mrsmith

01-01-07, 02:12 PM

You say that as if any of us had any respect for this troll to start with. :rolleyes:
Respect and truth are often mutually exclusive. You might "respect" Toshiba, Sony and the movie studios, but they're shoveling it at you by the ton.

It's fortunate IMO that the general public has not been taken in by the hi-def optical disk formats, any more than they were by D-VHS, especially in view of the fact there are some 50-million HDTVs out there(WSR 12/2006). Without this tepid response we get nothing more at all.

Seems to me the very first order of business is fixing those damn disks to provide a real boost in image quality, and not just the incremental improvement we've seen to date.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

deez

01-01-07, 06:47 PM

mrsmith

01-01-07, 07:25 PM

wow i am now thinking that you are ignorant as well as wrong mr smith...anyway, why dont you start your own thread and title it something like"Hi def fromats do not live up to boasts and are a waste of money and i wouldn't buy one but then i did"...

lol

Anyway, has anyone heard anyhting on a new FW for the A1?
Well, if stupidity and/or blindness is followed by ignorance then I guess you're right - I'm in that same boat with Colker at L.A. Times Research, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt, and so many more professional reviewers across the country. BTW, have you or anyone else in this forum been able to locate a volume discount on white canes for all the aforementioned?

In the meantime, here I am with my namesake Winston Smith in the Ministry of Love, with Big Brother's(Toshiba/Sony/movie studios, etc.) progenitor asking me how many fingers he is displaying. "Three, four, I don't know, what should I say?' But STUPENDOUS! I suddenly blurt out when shown an HD-DVD-BluRay of Goldstein on a nearby screen. You're right! How could I have been so blind? Your truth shines down upon me now. And so, I am ready for Room 101 as well, knowing fully what was always there to begin with - imagery beyond imagination, a hi-def optical extravaganza that only Big Brother could hope to show me. In essense, I've in a sense always known the truth but simply was unable to comprehend it until Toshiba/Sony/movie studios, etc. were able to whisk me to that Room 101.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

zapper

01-01-07, 08:00 PM

This guy is like the Energizer bunny, he keeps on going, going and going. :eek:

deez

01-01-07, 11:07 PM

Please close this thread or ban mrs smith from posting because she makes absolutely no sense and is probably off her medication...again any news on a new FW??

JimP

01-02-07, 12:44 AM

Time to use the "report post" button.

It would be better to keep this thread open than have it closed.

BasicBlak

01-02-07, 01:22 AM

JOHNnDENVER

01-02-07, 10:18 AM

Never accused of that.

I've been sort of convinced from these Boards that I am, instead, blind or stupid - or both. In fact, I've gradually become convinced that ALL who share my opinions must surely be blind or stupid as well, and that includes L.A.Times Research/Colker, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt, and so many more. I thought this bunch of us should band together somehow for a quantity discount on white canes off of eBay or someplace.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Stupid or Blind... You said it not me....

Ahh the world of the small low end displays, I can almost remember those days. :)

mrsmith

01-02-07, 01:28 PM

Look, if from this post on forward we ALL decide simply to just ignore those who are not contributing to the actual ownership, functionality and operation of the A1 player, we'll all be the better for it. Please folks, do not bait or otherwise egg on those engaged in this foolishness. For the flames just continue to be fueled every time someone posts a direct jab at someone else. Let's make this the VERY last comment on this shameful turn of events here and just MOVE FORWARD...PLEASE!!!! I am an A1 owner, and I find the information contained in this and other threads invaluable. And I think I can speak for others when I say this has gotten completely out of hand. It appears to wane off when we simply ignore these people. So please, from here on out, do not add to the fray. Just let it go, I implore you all! Thank you.
You miss the whole point:

My function here, like that of the professionals in publications of record, is to counter all the nonsense being pushed by Toshiba/Sony/movie studios, etc., and their vast P/R garbage machines. Tha basic, underlying fact is that the image currently being produced by these hi-def optical disk formats is just not a whole lot better than a good upconversion. I would bet that a great percentage of the aggressive proponents in this board and others are shills either for the manufacturers or the movie studios, somewhere in the foodchain.

It seems essential to me that opposing opinions be expressed. Just as patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, so too censorship the weapon of choice for those who know they cannot afford opposing viewpoints.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

RichB

01-02-07, 02:09 PM

You miss the whole point:

My function here, like that of the professionals in publications of record, is to counter all the nonsense being pushed by Toshiba/Sony/movie studios, etc., and their vast P/R garbage machines. Tha basic, underlying fact is that the image currently being produced by these hi-def optical disk formats is just not a whole lot better than a good upconversion. I would bet that a great percentage of the aggressive proponents in this board and others are shills either for the manufacturers or the movie studios, somewhere in the foodchain.

It seems essential to me that opposing opinions be expressed. Just as patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, so too censorship the weapon of choice for those who know they cannot afford opposing viewpoints.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

You cannot counter nonsense with nonsense. For example, you keep talking about a good up-conversion. That is also nonsense. I run a SDI connection to a Lumagen scaler scaled to the native rate of my display. That is not a up-conversion it is merely a better scaling process. If an upscaling processor looks better to you, that would likely indicate and inferior scaling/deinterlacing in your display. This is not a reflection on the lack of superiority of either Blu-Ray nor HD DVD.

I suspect you do not really understand this technology.
The shock-jock approach is not working for you ;)

- Rich

deafandblindfan

01-03-07, 12:50 AM

any reg dvd region hack for this player yet? i read on videohelp that you can take out the drive and hook it up to a computer to reset the region but that doesn't seem too wise...

can we talk about something more relevent? such as my question here...

HiHoStevo

01-03-07, 03:16 AM

can we talk about something more relevent? such as my question here...

I don't think HD-DVD's have any region as yet..... I do not think that has been implemented at this time

slogun

01-03-07, 07:49 AM

I don't think HD-DVD's have any region as yet..... I do not think that has been implemented at this time
I would guess he's talking about standard DVDs as played on the Toshiba.

mrsmith

01-03-07, 01:36 PM

You cannot counter nonsense with nonsense. For example, you keep talking about a good up-conversion. That is also nonsense. I run a SDI connection to a Lumagen scaler scaled to the native rate of my display. That is not a up-conversion it is merely a better scaling process. If an upscaling processor looks better to you, that would likely indicate and inferior scaling/deinterlacing in your display. This is not a reflection on the lack of superiority of either Blu-Ray nor HD DVD.

I suspect you do not really understand this technology.
The shock-jock approach is not working for you ;)

- Rich
Oh I understand it alright - but perhaps you are confusing the intricate technical details principally of interest to engineers or technicians. I'm concerned exclusively with how it LOOKS. The rest is irrelevant to me, and apparently to the majority of professional reviewers across the country.

If the slow sales are any indication, the general public must be seeing what I'm seeing as well: not that much difference between a good upcon and hi-def optical disk formats to date.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

mrsmith

01-03-07, 01:41 PM

I would guess he's talking about standard DVDs as played on the Toshiba.
As to the HD-DVDs, both the region codes and the AACS encryption have been busted. Both were announced within the last 30 days.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

deez

01-03-07, 01:48 PM

Oh I understand it alright - but perhaps you are confusing the intricate technical details principally of interest to engineers or technicians. I'm concerned exclusively with how it LOOKS. The rest is irrelevant to me, and apparently to the majority of professional reviewers across the country.

If the slow sales are any indication, the general public must be seeing what I'm seeing as well: not that much difference between a good upcon and hi-def optical disk formats to date.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

What professional reviewers???
Listen you are only doing this for attention and that is it ...it is very apparent as you have no hard facts just a lot of vocabulary.....you even post your email as a link...listen if you want a friend let me know i'll do i really feel sorry for you...you are very ignorant and a hypocrite as well...one minute saying you would never pay for a hd format the next buying one.....and then to say there is no difference in PQ is very ignorant as well as ridiculous...............most people on this forum can show you maybe ten times the amount of people you have that say there is no percieved difference in PQ to one that will say there is a huge difference in PQ....also, i would venture to say that your sounces are just newspaper writers not even professional reviewers......why dont you do us a favor and start your own thread and title it"HD DVD and BD-We are being ripped off" or something like that as this a thread is for users experience with the product and as you have none please use discipline and post when you do.....otherwise i hope the mods close this thread as we have about 3 of these now and we only need one for us "USERS" of the A1....

mrsmith

01-03-07, 03:15 PM

What professional reviewers???
Listen you are only doing this for attention and that is it ...it is very apparent as you have no hard facts just a lot of vocabulary.....you even post your email as a link...listen if you want a friend let me know i'll do i really feel sorry for you...you are very ignorant and a hypocrite as well...one minute saying you would never pay for a hd format the next buying one.....and then to say there is no difference in PQ is very ignorant as well as ridiculous...............most people on this forum can show you maybe ten times the amount of people you have that say there is no percieved difference in PQ to one that will say there is a huge difference in PQ....also, i would venture to say that your sounces are just newspaper writers not even professional reviewers......why dont you do us a favor and start your own thread and title it"HD DVD and BD-We are being ripped off" or something like that as this a thread is for users experience with the product and as you have none please use discipline and post when you do.....otherwise i hope the mods close this thread as we have about 3 of these now and we only need one for us "USERS" of the A1....
1: Among them: Colker/L.A. Times Research, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt of thedigitalbits.com, and others. You'll note that these reviewers are identifiable as to identity and their employers, and particularly as to L.A. and N.Y. Times, these are publications of record - and not some anonymous posters on a forum. In fact, if their true identities and employers were known, I suspect that a great percentage of the most vociferous proponents of these hi-def optical disk formats in these online blogs are, in fact, shills for the manufacturers or movie studios, and that is why the opinions of anonymous posters are immediately suspect.

2: The one and only reason I got an HD-A1 was because I bought it used for pocket change, little more than a good upcon machine. It will make a good upcon machine at such time my V880 dies and I get an HDMI-equipped HDTV instead of the component 65-incher I have now. The results at home are very much like what I saw in the stores when running an HD-DVD title: a little better than upcon, but not all that much. And that's what the pro's have been saying from outset.

3: My e-mail address is there for a reason: you'd be surprised what private responses I've had - most importantly from some who allege they work for the studios here in L.A. and have told me they and many of their colleagues privately share my views. They're saying they know the disks just aren't that good.

Touchy, touchy, petulant, petulant. A sure sign of a weak argument. Why not try outright censorship?

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

RichB

01-03-07, 03:27 PM

Oh I understand it alright - but perhaps you are confusing the intricate technical details principally of interest to engineers or technicians. I'm concerned exclusively with how it LOOKS. The rest is irrelevant to me, and apparently to the majority of professional reviewers across the country.

If the slow sales are any indication, the general public must be seeing what I'm seeing as well: not that much difference between a good upcon and hi-def optical disk formats to date.

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

So what is your display?

It is possible that your equipment or eyes are not up to the task of making a proper evaluation. Maybe a better statement would be if you eyesight is so so or if you have a small display, stick with DVD. If it is really small or your eyesight is really bad, just by tapes :)

You keep mentioning Bill Hunt. Please provide the quote that you are relying on for your opinion. They seem to have a hell of a lot of information about HD DVD and BD on their site which is not consistent with you "sham" thesis.

This is probably my last post since you never provide any actual information. It's like talking to a recording. You are posting on a users thread telling them they were hoodwinked. This is why you are not taken seriously.

- Rich

lujan

01-03-07, 03:36 PM

1: Among them: Colker/L.A. Times Research, Pogue in the N.Y. Times, Bill Hunt of thedigitalbits.com, and others. You'll note that these reviewers are identifiable as to identity and their employers, and particularly as to L.A. and N.Y. Times, these are publications of record - and not some anonymous posters on a forum. In fact, if their true identities and employers were known, I suspect that a great percentage of the most vociferous proponents of these hi-def optical disk formats in these online blogs are, in fact, shills for the manufacturers or movie studios, and that is why the opinions of anonymous posters are immediately suspect.

...

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

I take these reviewers about as seriously as I take movie critics. I judge the movie or HD-A1 myself and don't listen to others about their opionions because they are most likely very tainted. I know the HD-A1 and HD technology in general is much better in video/audio quality and will continue to use it. All that matters is what YOU yourself thinks about it and not what others might say.

mrsmith

01-03-07, 04:08 PM

So what is your display?

It is possible that your equipment or eyes are not up to the task of making a proper evaluation. Maybe a better statement would be if you eyesight is so so or if you have a small display, stick with DVD. If it is really small or your eyesight is really bad, just by tapes :)

You keep mentioning Bill Hunt. Please provide the quote that you are relying on for your opinion. They seem to have a hell of a lot of information about HD DVD and BD on their site which is not consistent with you "sham" thesis.

This is probably my last post since you never provide any actual information. It's like talking to a recording. You are posting on a users thread telling them they were hoodwinked. This is why you are not taken seriously.

- Rich
1: My HDTV is an RCA Scenium 65-inch CRT-based unit at 400F/L, which means a very bright display. It produces much deeper blacks and whiter whites than the more current LCD/DLP/Plasmas, but not quite the resolution(2-mil pixels according to the spec's). In any case, it's the same baseline when comparing the upcon with the 'native'. Comparative results have been about the same as I had seen for several months in the stores: a little better, but not all that much.

2: Bill Hunt of the digitalbits.com - of ALL people - was the person consulted by L.A. Times Research(Colker) in its initial review of BluRay. That article is still available from the newspaper's archives I believe. The jist of the report, with outright support by Hunt, was that it took a jumbo screen to really appreciate the difference(same player used to evaluate standard and BluRay). A subsequent follow up by Colker in late November for the first time stated that at least one BluRay title actually made a difference on a 37-inch display. What was interesting is that Hunt presumably has a vested interest in success of the hi-def optical disk formats, since that is his business.

3: You are certainly free to read or ignore anything you like, of course. But I assume you do not suport censorship of opposing viewpoints(?)

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

DrDon

01-05-07, 02:57 AM

Thread rolled back. This is about First End User Reports. Let's keep to that topic, please.

slogun

01-05-07, 10:15 PM

I have had my A1 player for a few weeks but have had very little opportunity to view HD content due to its lack of availability in my local market (for rent).
Go get yourself a free two week trial to BlockBusterOnline (http://www.blockbuster.com/online/home) and/or Netflix (http://www.netflix.com/Register?mqso=80008235&nfse=Y) and gain access to their almost 200 HD-DVD titles.

JimP

01-07-07, 08:03 AM

Milton,

What's your average viewing distance?

miata

01-08-07, 01:10 AM

lujan

01-08-07, 07:57 AM

miata

01-09-07, 10:58 PM

I have a TV with component that does 1080i, 480p or 480p. However, the TV component inputs do not not sense and auto-switch when the source changes video modes (480i/480p/1080i). I was hoping that in those cases where I am not playing an HD DVD or copied SD DVD that the HD-A1 would still be view-able via the s-video output. Unfortunately, I have yet to get anything on the s-video output. I have the latest 2.0 firmware update. Is this player defective?
My problems seem to have gone away. First, s-video does seem to work now with SD DVDs. This may have been a problem with my TV. So, the really exciting thing is that the HD-A1 upscales SD DVDs to 1080i over component analog and they look absolutely gorgeous. I only have a 38" CRT and normally watch from about 10' away, so the improvements for me with SD DVD upscaling is much more dramatic than the difference between upscaled SD DVDs and HD DVDs. The strange thing is that I started with DVD copies and they worked as expected. The pleasant surprise is that when I play regular copy protect SD DVDs they still upscale. The HD-A1 gives me a warning about switching to 480p, the TV has a slight signal glitch, then the player outputs perfect 1080i. Is this normal? I have the latest 2.0 firmware. My TV does not automatically change resolutions, so I'm wondering if the HD-A1 can sense that and go back to 1080i after 480p fails. When I pop up the display it says MPEG2 and 480P, but I know the signal is actually 1080i. This almost seems too good to be true. And I've tried all kinds of DVDs -- Superbit, Monstor House, T3, etc. I always get the same warning then everything just works.

BasicBlak

01-10-07, 12:21 AM

My problems seem to have gone away. First, s-video does seem to work now with SD DVDs. This may have been a problem with my TV. So, the really exciting thing is that the HD-A1 upscales SD DVDs to 1080i over component analog and they look absolutely gorgeous. I only have a 38" CRT and normally watch from about 10' away, so the improvements for me with SD DVD upscaling is much more dramatic than the difference between upscaled SD DVDs and HD DVDs. The strange thing is that I started with DVD copies and they worked as expected. The pleasant surprise is that when I play regular copy protect SD DVDs they still upscale. The HD-A1 gives me a warning about switching to 480p, the TV has a slight signal glitch, then the player outputs perfect 1080i. Is this normal? I have the latest 2.0 firmware. My TV does not automatically change resolutions, so I'm wondering if the HD-A1 can sense that and go back to 1080i after 480p fails. When I pop up the display it says MPEG2 and 480P, but I know the signal is actually 1080i. This almost seems too good to be true. And I've tried all kinds of DVDs -- Superbit, Monstor House, T3, etc. I always get the same warning then everything just works.

Not sure how you're achieving 1080i output on SD-DVD via component. My understanding is that upscaling of SD-DVD can only take place via HDMI. I have a 52" Toshiba DLP, so I've never even attempted the 480p settings on my A1 (for obvious reasons). After giving it a shot a few minutes ago as an experiment, sure enough I got the 480p warning message, and 480p is where it stays--no upconversion. (I also have the v2.0 firmware.) Your A1 either has an unusual glitch or you're exceedingly lucky! :)

Scarpad

01-10-07, 06:45 AM

I got into HD-DVD Cheaply via the Xbox Add/On if not for that I would've waited, most Americans that own a HDTV probably own something that does 720P. At that Resolution they are not seeing enough of a difference between it and an Upconverted Player, to warrant a purchase of Very Expensive Hardware, and More expensive Software. Add in a Format war. These numbers do not surprise me.

DrDon

01-10-07, 12:50 PM

Thread cleaned up AGAIN and suspensions issued.

If it's not about the use or operation of the HD-A1 by or for people who own and/or sell the box, it does NOT belong in this thread. That includes sales figures and general bickering.

Doc

JOHNnDENVER

01-10-07, 04:03 PM

I had a post a while back about Miami Vice on the A1 using HDMI and DPLIIx... Anybody attempt to check that out? Quite a few places in the flick, there was siginificant content differences bewteen my two back surround channels. Really could fool you into thinking it was real 7.1 and not derrived from a 5.1 source on that one. I had just not encountered this quite this way before, ever.

speeeedy

01-10-07, 04:54 PM

I have a question about using the 5.1 analogs on the A1. Do I have to switch the spdif over to pcm or will it work with it in bitstream in order to hear dd+ and true hd? I thought I read on hear somewhere that with the new 2.0 software it would do it automatically. Sometimes I like to listen to sd-dvd over digital coax and it would be nice not to have to go into the setup menu and change it every time. Thanks!

JOHNnDENVER

01-10-07, 05:19 PM

The analogs are always active and is not altered by menu settings. :)

speeeedy

01-10-07, 05:36 PM

So even though I think it sounds better in set pcm and not bitstream through the analogs it is all the same right? Or just my mind playing tricks on me?

miata

01-10-07, 06:49 PM

Not sure how you're achieving 1080i output on SD-DVD via component. My understanding is that upscaling of SD-DVD can only take place via HDMI. I have a 52" Toshiba DLP, so I've never even attempted the 480p settings on my A1 (for obvious reasons). After giving it a shot a few minutes ago as an experiment, sure enough I got the 480p warning message, and 480p is where it stays--no upconversion. (I also have the v2.0 firmware.) Your A1 either has an unusual glitch or you're exceedingly lucky! :)
Some DVD players, including the HD-A1, can upscale non-protected (home or copied) DVDs over analog. However, players are supposed to prevent anything better than 480p over analog when the DVD is copy protected (CSS?). My TV does not switch between 1080i and 480p like most, "newer" HDTVs. So, the HD-A1 gives me a warning message about switching to 480p -- but maybe it has trouble since my TV does not switch. So, maybe this feature only works with the small number of TVs out there that do not automatically switch. In some ways, this makes sense since it would be very awkward for me to use the HD-A1 for both HD DVDs and SD DVDs otherwise. In fact, my original question about s-video was to get around this resolution mode switching issue. I was planning on using the s-video for SD DVD output. But, no need need now. I feel just a little bit nervous taking advantage of this undocumented feature. I sure will be hesitant about doing future firmware updates.

JOHNnDENVER

01-11-07, 08:33 AM

So even though I think it sounds better in set pcm and not bitstream through the analogs it is all the same right? Or just my mind playing tricks on me?

You find this on the A1 specifically? I'd say that is an oddity. :)

On both HD-DVD and SD-DVD alike? I no longer am using the 5.1 analog out, but when I did I had played with various audio options a lot. I didnt find anything really effected the analog out. Seemed like it was always active and decoded what ever it was going to decode from the selected audio. That is why I asked about what sources you find this on, maybe I never tried a source that would of made a difference?

It would be difficult for me to test this now. It is not an easy route of 6 RCA cables to my AVR as I did a full re-wire and new wire management scheme when I replaced my Denon 4802 AVR with the Marantz SR7001.

speeeedy

01-11-07, 10:46 AM

jameskollar

01-11-07, 12:23 PM

I have only tried it with hd-dvd. It does decode it the analog outs while in bitstream I know for sure. It just seems that with it set to pcm it sounds more open and crisp. Like I said it could just be me sinse it takes a little while to go into the menu and change, then have to start the movie over again, then find the chapter. So I can't do a quick A/B coparison wich would make things easier.
Thanks a lot. Now you've got me qurstioning whether the anologs are affected by menu settings. :rolleyes:

I too had assumed that the menu settings made no difference. There are times I will want to use my 5.1 surround headphones and I need the bitstream setting for that to work. I too do not want to have to change the settings sooo..... I'll do my own test and report back. Easy to understand how hard it is to do such a test.

BasicBlak

01-11-07, 04:39 PM

Some DVD players, including the HD-A1, can upscale non-protected (home or copied) DVDs over analog. However, players are supposed to prevent anything better than 480p over analog when the DVD is copy protected (CSS?). My TV does not switch between 1080i and 480p like most, "newer" HDTVs. So, the HD-A1 gives me a warning message about switching to 480p -- but maybe it has trouble since my TV does not switch. So, maybe this feature only works with the small number of TVs out there that do not automatically switch. In some ways, this makes sense since it would be very awkward for me to use the HD-A1 for both HD DVDs and SD DVDs otherwise. In fact, my original question about s-video was to get around this resolution mode switching issue. I was planning on using the s-video for SD DVD output. But, no need need now. I feel just a little bit nervous taking advantage of this undocumented feature. I sure will be hesitant about doing future firmware updates.

Very interesting situation you got there, Miata. I was assuming you were referring to copy-protected material being upscaled via analog, which on my unit and TV anyway is definitely a no-go. However, yes, non-copy-protected SD-DVDs over analog does work as I tried it myself last night. I would venture to say, if you find that your A1 is working to your satisfaction as-is (e.g. with v2.0 firmware) while trying to maximize the use of your current display device, then yes, in your situation I too would probably hold off on the next f/w update. But consider my opinion tempered by the fact that, though overall the A1 is a fantastic piece of equipment, it remains a rather quirky device. And any and all future f/w updates can only make this thing even better, something you certainly wouldn't want to miss out on. :)

slogun

01-11-07, 10:22 PM

kmlm13

01-12-07, 10:28 AM

Why does the AUTO setting sound better than the PCM setting ?

conqst99

01-12-07, 05:33 PM

Hello All-
I've been reading on this thread for about a week now. I bought a Panasonic 50" 50px60 plasma on Black Friday (awesome unit with 768p native rez) and just bought a "like new" HD-A1 last week which works great. I've been reading alot of threads about the 5.1 analog outputs for HD-DVD movies for better theater sound with DD+ (I have a dedicated home theater room with good acoustics). Here's my situation. I have a Harman Kardon AVR235 receiver which decodes 7.1 dolby digital as well as DTS. It doesn't have HDMI capabilities (component is the most it offers). I haven't seen anything here regarding my following question but if there is something, please forgive me for asking. What I'd like to know is if there is a possibility to continue playing my standard dvd's thru the HD-A1 using my digital coaxial cable (to continue getting the rear channel surround for dolby ex movies like "Cars") and ALSO have the 5.1 analog cables hooked up into my receiver from the HD-A1 to utilize the DD+ soundtracks from HD-DVD's in 5.1 surround. It would be great if I could just click something on the HD-A1 remote to switch audio outputs to either go thru the coaxial or the 5.1 analog since all the wires would be physically connected from the amp to the HD-A1. Thanx in advance for any input!

miata

01-12-07, 05:53 PM

conqst99

01-12-07, 06:04 PM

Can't you just have two inputs in your receiver. That is what I did to compare digital versus analog. So, you could have HD DVD (analog) and DVD (digital). Change between them like you do between other components.

Yes, I can do that. Didn't think of that. But on the dvd player end, how would the HD-A1 know how to output audio? For example, if I wanted the HD-A1 to output all standard dvd's via the digital coaxial with bitstream into my receiver which would in turn output dolby digital. And also to tell the HD-A1 that it output audio thru the 5.1 analog outputs for only HD-DVDs into my receiver which would send sound via DTS

miata

01-12-07, 06:10 PM

Yes, I can do that. Didn't think of that. But on the dvd player end, how would the HD-A1 know how to output audio? For example, if I wanted the HD-A1 to output all standard dvd's via the digital coaxial with bitstream into my receiver which would in turn output dolby digital. And also to tell the HD-A1 that it output audio thru the 5.1 analog outputs for only HD-DVDs into my receiver which would send sound via DTS
I don't have the manual in front of me, but I don't think you need to worry about the HD-A1. It is always is putting out both digital and analog. Just make sure that the digital outs are at the right settings. Somebody else correct me if I am wrong.

jameskollar

01-12-07, 06:26 PM

I don't have the manual in front of me, but I don't think you need to worry about the HD-A1. It is always is putting out both digital and analog. Just make sure that the digital outs are at the right settings. Somebody else correct me if I am wrong.

It is indeed outputting both at the same time. If you set the Tosh to output PCM via Spdif the best you can get is 2.0. With bitstream your outboard receiver will do the decoding.

With HDMI to your receiver you want to set the HDMI output to PCM. The player needs to do the decoding for TRUEHD.

Analogs are active under all circumstances but here is where the confusion comes from. It has beeen reported in this thread and rather recently that the audio settings of PCM vs Bitstream affect the analog outs. It's not been proven yet, just reported.

I had thought that the analogs are not affected by the audio settings. I plan on testing this for myself.

To the best of my knowledge this is the current state of affairs.

conqst99

01-12-07, 06:51 PM

I don't have the manual in front of me, but I don't think you need to worry about the HD-A1. It is always is putting out both digital and analog. Just make sure that the digital outs are at the right settings. Somebody else correct me if I am wrong.

OK, I'll give it a shot. Do you think there is a big enough difference in sound though from using digital coaxial bitstream into DTS on my receiver (which sounds good IMO) in comparison to 5.1 analog output for HD-DVD's? If there is not much difference, I'll probably just stay with the one cable coaxial that I have now for all channels.

miata

01-12-07, 06:59 PM

jameskollar

01-12-07, 07:13 PM

One important thing to note, you cannot get lossless 5.1 sound over 1.5 mbps SPDIF. It's not possible. DTS does indeed sound very good. However, TrueHD sound is IMO a very noticable improvement over DTS. YMMV. You can only get TrueHD via analog on the A1, XA1 or XA2 if you have a receiver that does not do HDMI. (Since this is the Tosh A1 thread I've limited the models to the Tosh). TrueHD is a lossless codec.

plazman

01-12-07, 07:21 PM

There are too many individual system and personal factors. You really have to decide for yourself. In my situation, IU much prefer the analog output from the HD-A1. In fact, that is the primary reason for getting the HD-A1 instead of the quicker, more stable HD-A2.

I am using the A-2 since it's more stable and quicker than my older XA-1. But for pure audio quality the analogs on the XA-1 are superior to the A-2. The XA-1 and A-1 are the same. Even my wife admits the audio on the XA-1 is better, but she prefers the operability of the A-2 over the XA-1. The XA-1 does suffer from the occasional glitch....

zapper

01-12-07, 07:49 PM

Joe Q

01-13-07, 06:38 AM

Question have the A1 and it appears that it WILL NOT PLAY sd-dvd copies, somewhere along the movie it stops and states something like bad media, the SD-DVD will play on my Oppo with no problem but A1 beats it on color etc, if it will just play it through.

Did you try more than one to make sure it is not a scratched disk?

I have played a lot of SD DVD's in the A1 and, except for a really scratched disc, I have not had any problems with playback.

As a matter of fact, I don't have an SD DVD player anymore since the A1 does upconversion on SD DVD's.

JOHNnDENVER

01-13-07, 11:41 AM

I would try switching media. On recordable discs any given drive is likely to be picky and not like a given media. I have run into a fair amount in my I.T. position.

jameskollar

01-13-07, 12:24 PM

I would try switching media. On recordable discs any given drive is likely to be picky and not like a given media. I have run into a fair amount in my I.T. position.
Same here. You could also try slowing down the burn rate. That sometimes works.

zapper

01-13-07, 03:59 PM

Thank's guys, burned at 4X, will try another disk but if I recall correct it has happened more then once.

conqst99

01-13-07, 04:11 PM

Hi Guys -
Thanx for all the info you offered yesterday regarding setting up my HD-A1 with both 5.1 analog cables for the DD+ on HD-DVDs as well as continued use of my digital coaxial cable to my receiver for hearing Dolby (5.1 and EX) on SD-DVDs. Here's my plan:
Run 5.1 analog cables for the front, surrounds, center, and sub from the HD-A1 to my 6 channel direct in on my receiver, and run my coaxial cable from the HD-A1 to the input on my Harman Kardon AVR235 receiver. This way, from what I understand since the HD-A1 simultaneously outputs sound from both the coaxial as well as the 5.1 analog outputs, I can change my receiver to the dvd coaxial in when watching standard dvds (to preserve the cool 6.1 channel for back surrounds) decoded in DTS and change the receiver to 6 channel direct in for non-decoding output when watching HD-DVD's using the DD+ format. Does this all makes sense?
Here's my question. I know how to switch back and forth on my receiver end for either the 6 channel direct or DTS decoding thru the coaxial, but how does the HD-A1 know how to output the sound. I mean if I'm watching an HD-DVD, how do I tell it to send the DD+ to the analog 5.1 outputs and not send the Dolby Digital soundtrack from the hd-dvd instead? Must I somehow set the HD-A1 to PCM or bitstream (I think I definitely need bitstream for dolby EX sd-dvds but what about for DD+ and TrueHD for HD-DVD?) And then for the standard dvds, I'll assume that the same output will go thru the analog 5.1 outputs and the coaxial at the same time, so it really doesn't matter since the signal will be dolby digital no matter what (or will it be decoded as DTS).
Lastly, the way I understand it, since I do not have an HDMI equipped receiver, I can only get DD+ decoding from the HD-A1 thru the 5.1 analog outputs. TrueHD sound would only be possible with 2.0 (two front speakers?).
Thanx for sounding so naive but I'm just trying to get this cleared up....I'm a little confused on how to setup the HD-A1 for what I want.

Thank you guys!

KBD

01-14-07, 08:07 AM

JimP

01-14-07, 08:12 AM

Sure wish that the default audio was the high rez format. I keep forgetting to change it in the menu.

conqst99

01-14-07, 01:18 PM

conqst99.
Yes, to the set up you intend.
Just leave it on Bitstream.
When playing a HD Dvd with True HD audio, you must select this in the menu off the disc. Otherwise it will default too DD+ only.
Any other HD Dvd,s without TrueHD, will just be DD+ or DD, wether through analog or coaxial.

Thanx for the input KBD -
I'll give it a shot. As for the normal hookup I have now, I've read some places that the optical out is much better than the digital coaxial out going into a dolby digital receiver (generally speaking for any hookups with 5.1 audio). Your opinion? I have digital coaxial hooked up now. Should I go with a digital optical cable instead of the coaxial? I'll still of course use the analog RCA's for the 5.1 analog out on the HD-A1. Thanx!

conqst99

01-14-07, 01:20 PM

Sure wish that the default audio was the high rez format. I keep forgetting to change it in the menu.

When you say "high rez format", do you mean TrueHD? I believe the guy with the thread before yours said it will default to DD+ or DD, and that TrueHD has to be changed in the hd-dvd menu right?

BasicBlak

01-14-07, 03:21 PM

I've read some places that the optical out is much better than the digital coaxial out going into a dolby digital receiver (generally speaking for any hookups with 5.1 audio). Your opinion? I have digital coaxial hooked up now. Should I go with a digital optical cable instead of the coaxial? I'll still of course use the analog RCA's for the 5.1 analog out on the HD-A1. Thanx!
All things considered, I personally find coax outputs to be slightly more effective. Though coax can be prone to noise, optical (TOSlink) can be prone to excess digital jitter. In my setup (whether from the HD-A1 or another digital player), bass/LFE tends to be a tad more full and pronounced with coax and therefore, when given a choice, I'll generally stick with that. YMMV, however. :)

adrman

01-14-07, 05:44 PM

When you say "high rez format", do you mean TrueHD? I believe the guy with the thread before yours said it will default to DD+ or DD, and that TrueHD has to be changed in the hd-dvd menu right?

True HD must be selected in the menu. One other note for you regarding the HK235, if it has separate speaker level settings by input like my 335, make sure to boost the sub channel by the max 9db on your 6 channel input to take care of the -10db lfe issue on the HDA1 analog outputs.

craftech

01-14-07, 11:02 PM

I also posted this in the firmware thread, but it pertains to this discussion as well so sorry for the double post.

I don't know about you, but I have read far too many horror stories about firmware 2.0 on these forums with no "consistent" explanation except the obvious one.........The firmware is poorly engineered.

Non-gamblers have an alternative to get better sound.

Using the superior Firmware 1.4:

Hook up the SIX analog outs on HD-A1 to the SIX multi channel analog ins on receiver. I have a Sony STR-DE885 receiver.

Set movie to normal Dolby 5.1 (NOT DOLBY TRUE HD) and the HD-A1 player's audio to "bitstream" in the Setup menu.

Set receiver to "multi channel" or whatever your receiver's setting is for the multi channel inputs.

Huge improvement in sound over inherently bad HD DVD to DTS bitstream audio. Huge improvement over the 2-channel Dolby True HD. Also worked with a Dolby Digital Plus title (Twelve Monkeys).

It brings the sound up to the superior sound level that comes from any cheap SD DVD player and SD title.

It sounds really good that way and avoids possibly trashing your player's high quality video with poorly engineered 2.0 firmware as compared to properly engineered 1.4 firmware. If you now have firmware 1.4 don't DOWNGRADE to 2.0

2.0 will be the last. Makes no sense from a business standpoint to develop new firmware for an outdated player now that the HD-A2 is out. Since claimed sound improvement is the only reason to gamble with 2.0 you now have an alternative.

John

PS: The above statements regarding the sound are the collective opinion of my 15 regular evaluators and viewers at my home theater. None had a differing opinion this time.

JimP

01-14-07, 11:57 PM

John,

So how are you going to play movies that require 2.0 to be installed?

craftech

01-15-07, 06:37 AM

John,

So how are you going to play movies that require 2.0 to be installed?
=========
Twelve Monkeys came with a note that read:

IMPORTANT NOTICE

In order to take advantage of newly available features on your HD DVD disc, your player may need to be updated with the latest firmware updates.

It played just fine. I assume it was the DD+ soundtrack they were referring to. Set as I described above it played and sounded great.

John

JimP

01-15-07, 06:44 AM

Not just extra feature. Try playing King Kong without 2.0. You get nothing, zippo, nada.

conqst99

01-15-07, 06:47 AM

All things considered, I personally find coax outputs to be slightly more effective. Though coax can be prone to noise, optical (TOSlink) can be prone to excess digital jitter. In my setup (whether from the HD-A1 or another digital player), bass/LFE tends to be a tad more full and pronounced with coax and therefore, when given a choice, I'll generally stick with that. YMMV, however. :)

BasicBlak -
Thanx for the input. If they're comparable with no obvious difference, I guess I'll just stick with what I have now, the digital coaxial cable. But it made more sense to me that sound going fiber optic would have less resistance since there are no wires to pass thru, as is the case with a coaxial wired cable.

craftech

01-15-07, 06:51 AM

Not just extra feature. Try playing King Kong without 2.0. You get nothing, zippo, nada.

Thank God.

John

conqst99

01-15-07, 06:51 AM

True HD must be selected in the menu. One other note for you regarding the HK235, if it has separate speaker level settings by input like my 335, make sure to boost the sub channel by the max 9db on your 6 channel input to take care of the -10db lfe issue on the HDA1 analog outputs.

ADRman -
Thanx for the input. Yes, I have the HK AVR-235 and I think it may have the separate speaker level settings that you mention. I'll check tonite in the manual. So you're saying to boost the LFE to 9db ONLY for the 6 channel analog inputs on my 235? CYA!

conqst99

01-15-07, 06:57 AM

adrman

01-15-07, 07:07 AM

ADRman -
Thanx for the input. Yes, I have the HK AVR-235 and I think it may have the separate speaker level settings that you mention. I'll check tonite in the manual. So you're saying to boost the LFE to 9db ONLY for the 6 channel analog inputs on my 235? CYA!

I would have boosted it the full 10 db, but 9 is the maximum. Too bad it doesn't go to 11. :D To get the full 10db boost, I trimmed all other speaker outputs from the HDA1 by 1db. BTW, at least for my 335, the manual led me to believe that the speaker level settings were universal. I "discovered" they were individual just by playing around one day.

craftech

01-15-07, 07:32 AM

Is there anyway to "downgrade" back to the 1.4 from 2.0? I have 2.0 (as do many others I'm assuming). I won't be using TrueHD 2.0 for sound, only DD+ or normal DD with my non-HDMI receiver so would having 2.0 really be an issue?
No, not without losing the ability to play HD DVD. Are you having problems with the 2.0 firmware? If not, I am one for leaving well enough alone.

John

pchin2

01-15-07, 08:37 AM

1. Let me recap if I understand this clearly. Based on what I had read, we can use our non-HDMI receiver tru the analogs to play DD+ in 5.1 while both TrueHD & DTS HD in 2.0 (front left & right speakers only).

2. As for HDMI receiver, we don't need the latest version 1.3 in order to enjoy the new lossless audio format as long as the receiver support multi-channel PCM over its HDMI. So those who have HDMI receivers from 1.1 to 1.2a are possible to play the new HD audio format. Thanks. :)

conqst99

01-15-07, 11:38 AM

No, not without losing the ability to play HD DVD. Are you having problems with the 2.0 firmware? If not, I am one for leaving well enough alone.

John

John -
No, works perfect but I read somewhere on this thread (perhaps from you) that sticking with 1.4 is better for sound. Mine with 2.0 works fine though.

jameskollar

01-15-07, 01:36 PM

1. Let me recap if I understand this clearly. Based on what I had read, we can use our non-HDMI receiver tru the analogs to play DD+ in 5.1 while both TrueHD & DTS HD in 2.0 (front left & right speakers only).

No. TrueHD is in full 5.1 over the analogs. Haven't tried DTS HD (I think). I've only seen DD+ and TrueHD. It is my undersatnding that whatever decoded PCM streams you get over HDMI (PCM mode) you will also get over the analogs.

Question: Which is better, DD+ or DTS HD?

conqst99

01-15-07, 01:42 PM

No. TrueHD is in full 5.1 over the analogs. Haven't tried DTS HD (I think). I've only seen DD+ and TrueHD. It is my undersatnding that whatever decoded PCM streams you get over HDMI (PCM mode) you will also get over the analogs.

Question: Which is better, DD+ or DTS HD?

James -
I thought you can only get TrueHD in 5.1 thru an HDMI interface into the receiver. If you have an older receiver (non HDMI), then you can only get TrueHD in 2.0 thru the receiver via the 5.1 analogs OR DD+ in 5.1 thru the analogs. Please clarify this. If both can be atttained (TrueHD and DD+) via the 5.1 analogs then what is the difference as to what is chosen? Is TrueHD better / clearer / more realistic to the theater sound than Dolby Digital +?

craftech

01-15-07, 01:48 PM

John -
No, works perfect but I read somewhere on this thread (perhaps from you) that sticking with 1.4 is better for sound. Mine with 2.0 works fine though.

From all the posts I have read there have been a lot of problems after flashing to firmware 2.0 many of them video problems. What I am saying is that in good conscience I would advise against changing to 2.0 and risking your being one of the unfortunate ones if you ALREADY HAVE firmware 1.4. My suggestion for audio described above will improve the sound if you have 6 channel analog inputs on your receiver and firmware 1.4.

If you already have firmware 2.0 and it is working properly LEAVE IT ALONE. The logic is the same.

John

ghettogreg

01-15-07, 01:56 PM

James -
I thought you can only get TrueHD in 5.1 thru an HDMI interface into the receiver. If you have an older receiver (non HDMI), then you can only get TrueHD in 2.0 thru the receiver via the 5.1 analogs OR DD+ in 5.1 thru the analogs. Please clarify this. If both can be atttained (TrueHD and DD+) via the 5.1 analogs then what is the difference as to what is chosen? Is TrueHD better / clearer / more realistic to the theater sound than Dolby Digital +?

With firmware 2.0, the player can decode 5.1 TrueHD and output it as uncompressed PCM via the 5.1 analog connection or HDMI to your receiver. TrueHD is a lossless track (i.e. transparent to the master, no compression, etc. -- basically as good as it gets). DD+ is lossy (i.e. compressed and therefore inferior to TrueHD)

conqst99

01-15-07, 02:00 PM

From all the posts I have read there have been a lot of problems after flashing to firmware 2.0 many of them video problems. What I am saying is that in good conscience I would advise against changing to 2.0 and risking your being one of the unfortunate ones if you ALREADY HAVE firmware 1.4. My suggestion for audio described above will improve the sound if you have 6 channel analog inputs on your receiver and firmware 1.4.

If you already have firmware 2.0 and it is working properly LEAVE IT ALONE. The logic is the same.

John

Sounds good John -
Good advice. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". I bought mine a few weeks ago for $260 with it already flashed to 2.0. I feel I got a steal. I'll leave it alone. Thanx.

ghettogreg

01-15-07, 02:03 PM

Question: Which is better, DD+ or DTS HD?

That is usually decided on a title-by-title basis. DD+ from Warner is encoded at 640kbps while DD+ from Universal is encoded at 1.5mbps. DTS HD is usually encoded at 1.5mbps.
These are only numbers though, I wouldn't be able to objectively say that one is better than the other.
Just don't mix up DTS HD and DTS HD Master Audio. Master Audio is lossless while regular DTS HD is lossy.

conqst99

01-15-07, 02:03 PM

jameskollar

01-15-07, 02:16 PM

conqst99

01-15-07, 02:24 PM

I flashed my unit with 2.0 over the internet and never looked back. I like TrueHD when I can get it. It is really awesome. I have not seen TrueHD in the menu selection so I usually use the Display function and cycle through the available audio modes using the Audio button.

DTS HD Master is indeed lossless. I personally do not know if any HD DVD titles have been released that use this format.

As far as a I know, you need not change anything in the HD A1 menu to get any of these sound codecs over analog. Still need to prove this to myself though unless someone knows the definitive answer.

GhettoGreg. Thanks for the info!

When you say display function, you mean when you hit "display" on the remote for the HD-A1? When I hit display on the remote, it just shows a bunch of info in the upper left of screen but I can't do anything with it. Are you saying you hit display then "audio" on the remote? The HD-A1 MANUAL is horrible...it doesn't tell you ANYTHING good to know except the very basics. I can't even seem to find how to get the clock to display on the HD-A1 instead of how much time has elapsed in the movie continuously.
I mainly curious about the display / audio thing you're talking about....

jameskollar

01-15-07, 03:11 PM

When you say display function, you mean when you hit "display" on the remote for the HD-A1? When I hit display on the remote, it just shows a bunch of info in the upper left of screen but I can't do anything with it. Are you saying you hit display then "audio" on the remote? The HD-A1 is horrible...it doesn't tell you ANYTHING good to know except the very basics. I can't even seem to find how to get the clock to display on the HD-A1 instead of how much time has elapsed in the movie continuously.
I mainly curious about the display / audio thing you're talking about....

Yes and Yes. It will cycle through all of the available soundtracks. It may look like it's not doing anything when you press audio as many discs have only DD+ sound, however, if you wait long enough as you cycle you'll hear the various languages and if available, the track with the directors comments.

conqst99

01-15-07, 03:22 PM

Yes and Yes. It will cycle through all of the available soundtracks. It may look like it's not doing anything when you press audio as many discs have only DD+ sound, however, if you wait long enough as you cycle you'll hear the various languages and if available, the track with the directors comments.

James -
First off, I meant the HD-A1 MANUAL is horrible, NOT the unit itself...oops!
Cool for the display info. I was wondering what was up with that function if you can't do anything with it. Is there anything else I can do with the display besides using the audio button? For example, how would I get the clock to appear continuously instead the elapsed time (or for that matter, have it show the TIME REMAINING instead of the elapsed time)...perhaps you or someone else may know this...None of this is in the manual....
But for starters, thanx to you I now know how to change from different soundtracks....I guess for all HD-DVD's, the default soundtrack is DD+, but you can go into the selections you mentioned to change to one called "TrueHD" when available? Otherwise I guess they have only DD+ like you said.

dvdguru

01-15-07, 04:20 PM

Time remaining will show on the player's display when you hit the display button. It won't show up onscreen...

jameskollar

01-15-07, 04:36 PM

James -
First off, I meant the HD-A1 MANUAL is horrible, NOT the unit itself...oops!
Cool for the display info. I was wondering what was up with that function if you can't do anything with it. Is there anything else I can do with the display besides using the audio button? For example, how would I get the clock to appear continuously instead the elapsed time (or for that matter, have it show the TIME REMAINING instead of the elapsed time)...perhaps you or someone else may know this...None of this is in the manual....
But for starters, thanx to you I now know how to change from different soundtracks....I guess for all HD-DVD's, the default soundtrack is DD+, but you can go into the selections you mentioned to change to one called "TrueHD" when available? Otherwise I guess they have only DD+ like you said.

Glad I could help. :D

If TrueHD is available, it will show up when cycling through. It will actually say "TrueHD".

I agree the manual is horrible. The unit itself, not so good either BUT I kinda expected that when I bought a first gen player.

Things that I don't like about the unit are the remote (although my MX850 really renders that point moot), slow load times, no resume, and finicky playback on HD DVD. The HD DVD must be in near pristine state. SD playback has been much more stable for me.

What I do like is the PQ and AQ and it is the best upscalar I have seen.

All in all I do not regret my purchase.

conqst99

01-15-07, 05:09 PM

Time remaining will show on the player's display when you hit the display button. It won't show up onscreen...

Yeah, I found that out when I hit the display button, but as soon as you hit display again to get the big thing off the screen, the unit goes back to elapsed time again. I can't get it to stay there continuously but nothing on screen as far as the display in upper left

conqst99

01-15-07, 05:14 PM

Glad I could help. :D

If TrueHD is available, it will show up when cycling through. It will actually say "TrueHD".

I agree the manual is horrible. The unit itself, not so good either BUT I kinda expected that when I bought a first gen player.

Things that I don't like about the unit are the remote (although my MX850 really renders that point moot), slow load times, no resume, and finicky playback on HD DVD. The HD DVD must be in near pristine state. SD playback has been much more stable for me.

What I do like is the PQ and AQ and it is the best upscalar I have seen.

All in all I do not regret my purchase.

I did a quick search on Amazon for HD-DVD's and didn't see ANY that have TrueHD listed as an audio option...is this very rare during the present time?
I like the unit, although like you said, it has many quirks but it is a first gen player. I don't like the resume not working (its weird, the remote has a button on there for resume play but it doesn't work...what's up with that). Takes long to load an HD-DVD but not really a big deal for me. SD-DVD's are much quicker and I think the upconversion is awesome compared to what I had on my Samsung upconvert HDMI player. On 1080i resolution, I think the picture is perfect. I only own one HD-DVD title so far...King Kong. Wanna get maybe Spartucus, Dirty Dozen for sure. I heard also that Apollo 13 on HD-DVD is awesome.

lujan

01-15-07, 05:34 PM

I did a quick search on Amazon for HD-DVD's and didn't see ANY that have TrueHD listed as an audio option...is this very rare during the present time?
I like the unit, although like you said, it has many quirks but it is a first gen player. I don't like the resume not working (its weird, the remote has a button on there for resume play but it doesn't work...what's up with that). Takes long to load an HD-DVD but not really a big deal for me. SD-DVD's are much quicker and I think the upconversion is awesome compared to what I had on my Samsung upconvert HDMI player. On 1080i resolution, I think the picture is perfect. I only own one HD-DVD title so far...King Kong. Wanna get maybe Spartucus, Dirty Dozen for sure. I heard also that Apollo 13 on HD-DVD is awesome.

Another two that I have are "Constantine" and "End of Days" with "End of Days" having the best sound in TrueHD of all of them IMHO.

adrman

01-15-07, 05:35 PM

I did a quick search on Amazon for HD-DVD's and didn't see ANY that have TrueHD listed as an audio option...is this very rare during the present time?

Dolby True HD isn't as prevalent as I'd like, but it's not exactly rare either. Check Batman Begins and Superman Returns. If they don't list it for those two then Amazon isn't bothering to list it.

I like the unit, although like you said, it has many quirks but it is a first gen player. I don't like the resume not working (its weird, the remote has a button on there for resume play but it doesn't work...what's up with that).

Dont fault Toshiba on that. The resume function is disk based, so complain to the studios. If supported, the bookmark function is a good substitute. (press "b" on the remote)

jameskollar

01-15-07, 07:49 PM

Dont fault Toshiba on that. The resume function is disk based, so complain to the studios. If supported, the bookmark function is a good substitute. (press "b" on the remote)

You are correct it is a disc problem, not Toshiba's (i.e. SD DVDs can be resumed). However, it's kinda funny that some (all? not sure) of the BD players have resume capability on their Hi Def titlles. But that's a topic for another thread. Lack of resume is a pet peeve of mine.

Sorry for going off topic...

OK, I'm not really sorry for going off topic. :D

pchin2

01-15-07, 07:58 PM

With firmware 2.0, the player can decode 5.1 TrueHD and output it as uncompressed PCM via the 5.1 analog connection or HDMI to your receiver.

TrueHD is a lossless track (i.e. transparent to the master, no compression, etc. -- basically as good as it gets). DD+ is lossy (i.e. compressed and therefore inferior to TrueHD)

I need clarification. I agree with the first statement but am doubtful of the second statement in the part where you mentioned "TrueHD is a lossless track (i.e. transparent to the master, no compression, etc")

From the HDMI resource web site it says:
"New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™. "

So does this mean both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are lossless & in compressed form? Then which format is considered uncompressed digital audio?

Or The only way to get uncompressed is thru PCM stream?? Geez...this is getting so confusing... :(

ghettogreg

01-15-07, 08:25 PM

I need clarification. I agree with the first statement but am doubtful of the second statement in the part where you mentioned "TrueHD is a lossless track (i.e. transparent to the master, no compression, etc")

From the HDMI resource web site it says:
"New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™. "

So does this mean both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are lossless & in compressed form? Then which format is considered uncompressed digital audio?

Or The only way to get uncompressed is thru PCM stream?? Geez...this is getting so confusing... :(

Yeah, you got me on that one. I should not have called DTS HD MA and Dolby TrueHD uncompressed (wasn't thinking correctly)- they are compressed, but they are still lossless. Think of it like a .zip file - all of the contents are there and in tact, it's just compressed to a smaller file size. The player essentially "unzips" these advanced audio streams and sends it to the receiver as uncompressed lossless audio tracks.
To answer your other question- LPCM uncompressed streams are the uncompressed lossless tracks you speak of. Currently, they are only found on Blu ray discs. They will produce the same lossless audio quality as DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, but they aren't "zipped" to save file space. So they take up more space and consequently, decrease the amount of space available for video and extras.

Hope it helps clear things up for you

pchin2

01-15-07, 08:41 PM

Thanks a lot ghettogreg for the clarification, yes it has cleared things up & a big lump inside my brain has just disappeared! :)

slogun

01-15-07, 10:23 PM

If supported, the bookmark function is a good substitute. (press "b" on the remote)
Wow, I've been looking for that feaure, thanks!
(I take it, it only works on HD disks?)

I noticed that "A" zooms. but "C" and "D" don't do anything.

conqst99

01-16-07, 05:55 AM

Another two that I have are "Constantine" and "End of Days" with "End of Days" having the best sound in TrueHD of all of them IMHO.

I checked those on Amazon too and neither of them have TrueHD listed as an audio option. I guess alot of HD-DVD's have it but its just not mentioned. If you think about it, most consumers unlike us probably have no clue what TrueHD is. Most of the people I know don't even know what HDMI is, and so forth. Alot of reps at Best Buy, etc probably don't even know the difference.

conqst99

01-16-07, 05:56 AM

Dolby True HD isn't as prevalent as I'd like, but it's not exactly rare either. Check Batman Begins and Superman Returns. If they don't list it for those two then Amazon isn't bothering to list it.

Dont fault Toshiba on that. The resume function is disk based, so complain to the studios. If supported, the bookmark function is a good substitute. (press "b" on the remote)

I'll try "B" out then. Once again, that's not in the manual. Thanx.

conqst99

01-16-07, 06:00 AM

Wow, I've been looking for that feaure, thanks!
(I take it, it only works on HD disks?)

I noticed that "A" zooms. but "C" and "D" don't do anything.

Slogun -
What is this talk about "A" zooming? That's very interesting! Unfortunately, unlike my old cheap Samsung upconvert HDMI player which had the cool "zoom" feature to get rid of black lines, the HD-A1 doesn't zoom to my knowledge. Nothing in the manual. Are you saying that the "A" button on the remote does something like this? I have to use the aspect "zoom" feature on my Panny 50PX60U plasma to do this but it distorts and/or zooms in too far even after manually adjusting which I don't care for. I do not want the black bar cuz I'm afraid of image retention since I'm still not at the 100 hour burn in mark.

plazman

01-16-07, 06:12 AM

Wow, I've been looking for that feaure, thanks!
(I take it, it only works on HD disks?)

I noticed that "A" zooms. but "C" and "D" don't do anything.

I've even put 'set bookmark' as a command on my Harmony remote. That way, I don't have to remember A,B C etc. Once advantage of the Harmony is that you can program these commands and give them English names :)

conqst99

01-16-07, 07:00 AM

How do you guys respond to more than one thread in the same reply? I hate to keep having my response show up for different threads. I'd like to have the quote show up, then my response, then another quote for a different thread, and so forth. Thanx!!! :)

slogun

01-16-07, 08:02 AM

Slogun -
What is this talk about "A" zooming? That's very interesting! Unfortunately, unlike my old cheap Samsung upconvert HDMI player which had the cool "zoom" feature to get rid of black lines, the HD-A1 doesn't zoom to my knowledge. Nothing in the manual. Are you saying that the "A" button on the remote does something like this? I have to use the aspect "zoom" feature on my Panny 50PX60U plasma to do this but it distorts and/or zooms in too far even after manually adjusting which I don't care for. I do not want the black bar cuz I'm afraid of image retention since I'm still not at the 100 hour burn in mark.
It may be dependent on the particular disk, but while playing Superman Returns (HD-DVD) last night I found that each press of the "A" button cycled through 2x, 4x and 8x zoom. Yes, it zooms up quite close and it makes the resolution look poor. Not useful for general viewing, but perhaps useful if you need to see something in a scene.

How do you guys respond to more than one thread in the same reply? I hate to keep having my response show up for different threads. I'd like to have the quote show up, then my response, then another quote for a different thread, and so forth. Thanx!!!
Heh, takes a wee bit of HTML knowledge.(which is about all I have)
Each separate line you want to quote needs to be enclosed by:
[Quote=name here}text here[/QUOTE]In order to make this code show up I used upper case bracket for the the ending of each bracket set, in practice you want to use lower case bracket for your HTML. The back slash in the second bracket set is critical.

lujan

01-16-07, 08:04 AM

conqst99

01-16-07, 08:16 AM

It may be dependent on the particular disk, but while playing Superman Returns (HD-DVD) last night I found that each press of the "A" button cycled through 2x, 4x and 8x zoom. Yes, it zooms up quite close and it makes the resolution look poor. Not useful for general viewing, but perhaps useful if you need to see something in a scene.

Heh, takes a wee bit of HTML knowledge.(which is about all I have)
Each separate line you want to quote needs to be enclosed by:
In order to make this code show up I used upper case bracket for the the ending of each bracket set, in practice you want to use lower case bracket for your HTML. The back slash in the second bracket set is critical.

Thanx for the info Slogun. That kinda stinks about the zoom resolution though. I was hoping there would be a mode called "fit to screen" or something. My 16:9 screen for the 2.35:1 movies obviously shows the black bars which I cannot have until my plasma is broke in completely. I can't believe Toshiba didn't incorporate in some kind of mode like this for the people with plasmas. Maybe I'm just too paranoid but I've heard all the hype of permanent IR that plasmas are prone to.

conqst99

01-16-07, 08:17 AM

Here is a better site that gives all of the correct information about HD DVDs:

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/endofdays.html

THANX!!!! :) That's what I'm looking for...

slogun

01-16-07, 09:13 AM

I was hoping there would be a mode called "fit to screen" or something. My 16:9 screen for the 2.35:1 movies obviously shows the black bars which I cannot have until my plasma is broke in completely. I can't believe Toshiba didn't incorporate in some kind of mode like this for the people with plasmas. Maybe I'm just too paranoid but I've heard all the hype of permanent IR that plasmas are prone to.
I wouldn't worry about burn-in on present day plasmas.
You can't expect to get away from the black bars in every context, they are a part of the medium (film medium that is).
The aspect ratio of a film, is a decision that was made when the director shot the film. Only movies shot in the 1.8:1 aspect mode (or thereabouts) will fit perfectly on a 16:9 TV.
A similar event occurs when movies are shown in the theater. There are a number of different aspect ratios films are shot in. A given film takes up a certain portion of the big screen, but no one notices/worries about/pays attention to the blank portion of the screen which is not covered by the film.

conqst99

01-16-07, 09:23 AM

I wouldn't worry about burn-in on present day plasmas.
You can't expect to get away from the black bars in every context, they are a part of the medium (film medium that is).
The aspect ratio of a film, is a decision that was made when the director shot the film. Only movies shot in the 1.8:1 aspect mode (or thereabouts) will fit perfectly on a 16:9 TV.
A similar even occurs when movies are shown in the theater. There are a number of different aspect ratios films are shot in. A given film takes up a certain portion of the big screen, but no one notices the blank portion of the screen which is not covered by the film.

Good sound advice. I think after the 100 break in (that everybody is so gung-ho about), watching movies in the full mode (not zoomed or stretched) will be fine even though there are black lines. I heard though that some people ARE experiencing IR mainly when watching sports with the ticker lines and prominently in gaming with the playstations and xboxes where a score box appears continuously, etc. I guess as long as you don't get carried away, all will be well. I don't game on the plasma, and really watch NO TV at all, only dvd's and HD-DVD's.

BasicBlak

01-16-07, 03:09 PM

I checked those on Amazon too and neither of them have TrueHD listed as an audio option. I guess alot of HD-DVD's have it but its just not mentioned. If you think about it, most consumers unlike us probably have no clue what TrueHD is. Most of the people I know don't even know what HDMI is, and so forth. Alot of reps at Best Buy, etc probably don't even know the difference.

Amazon rarely gives a thorough list of disc features. Try http://www.dvdempire.com also. In addition to better descriptions of disc features, they give full front and back screen shots of the all their optical disc packaging. You'll see that there are actually several Dolby TrueHD titles for the HD-A1 (with firmware v2.0) to take advantage of, and the list is growing. :)

rotaryboy

01-16-07, 08:44 PM

I'm having trouble getting DD on HD-DVD's. I get NO sound at all when connected via toslink or digital coax using the bitstream setting. If I select PCM I of course get 2 channel Pro logic. I have an ancient Yamaha rx-v992 with no hdmi or 5.1 analogs and no DTS. I have 5.1 selected in the audio menu of the A1 and the HDMI setting is auto. Oddly, when I play a SD DVD I get DD just fine using bitstream.

adrman

01-16-07, 09:31 PM

I'm having trouble getting DD on HD-DVD's. I get NO sound at all when connected via toslink or digital coax using the bitstream setting. If I select PCM I of course get 2 channel Pro logic. I have an ancient Yamaha rx-v992 with no hdmi or 5.1 analogs and no DTS.

The no DTS is your problem. For bitstream output, the HDA1 decodes DD, DD+ and outputs it as DTS.

jameskollar

01-16-07, 10:50 PM

The no DTS is your problem. For bitstream output, the HDA1 decodes DD, DD+ and outputs it as DTS.

I second that, and time for a new receiver (you lucky pup. Buy one with HDMI capability). :D Mine decodes all of these but does not do HDMI, so I am "stuck" with analog outs. :rolleyes:

conqst99

01-17-07, 05:35 AM

Hey Guys -
Not sure if this was brought up before (probably was), the search function doesn't appear to be working as everything I key in brings up "no results". I only own one HD-DVD....King Kong. Last nite was the first time I watched the part of the movie where King Kong fights the 3 dinosaurs and the movie suddenly stopped and said "Disc error...cannot READ the disc" along with an error code. I hope for the sake of the HD-A1 that the disc is the problem and not the unit itself. I had to turn the unit off completely and then wait for it to reboot. I started the movie at a different scene and it seemed fine again. I looked at the disc later and it is a little scratched (bought it on ebay used)....are these HD-DVD players THAT picky about reading HD-DVD's? I used my dvd repair / cleaner and the disc looks better...maybe I'll try again tonite. Any comments as to if that was most likely my problem? Thanx!

markrubin

01-18-07, 10:57 AM

unstuck

JOHNnDENVER

01-18-07, 11:25 AM

mrsmith

01-18-07, 04:10 PM

The 1st gen players are pretty picky. They have early revision drives with only basic error correction built it.
My A1 has been really awesome though. If yours continues to give you grief, return the player or send it in and get it repaird.
But is it the player or the disks?

Bought mine used on the cheap, so I have no complaints coming. However, I note that with several rental disks the problems occur only on dual-layer items(single layer run flawlessly) and then only on certain titles: specifically, 'Miami Vice', even after resurfacing, had at least 10 audio drop-outs scattered throughout the disk; 'U-571' had only a minor stutter(presumably at the layer change)as did 'Lady In The Water' . No lock-up problems as reported on occasion on these boards. Machine is running firmware 2.0, I think(when you ask for verification with the 2.0 disk inserted, a screen comes up and seeks an ethernet connection but does not let you go further - what's with that?). Component connection with optical/digital audio.

Am I alone with this particular set of circumstances?

Enjoy!

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

JOHNnDENVER

01-18-07, 04:27 PM

Your not alone, the only one of those problem titles for you I own is Miami Vice and it plays fine for me. I don't rent discs though. The A1 definitely has reported issues of the sort your experiening. of course it's hard to say if they are disc problems or player problems.

If I start experiening those sorts of issue, I am sending mine in for repair.

Tim Neuland

01-18-07, 04:35 PM

conqst99

01-18-07, 04:51 PM

I had the same error mesage when playing KK and the disk was new. These disks are extremely touchy. I find that every skip or hang is fixed by disk cleaning.

I usually clean every disk before I play it the first time.

Ahh, thanx Tim. So you had a problem too. I resurfaced mine twice and then subsequently cleaned it both times and have yet to try it again but it definitely looks better. Someone in a previous mentioned that single layer discs are not as touchy. How do you know which movies have both? Or maybe its mentioned right on the back of the disc case (don't have one in front of me).
I'm wondering if I put the same dvd (same one that is fairly marked up with fingerprints) in my Sony normal dvd player upstairs and the same one downstairs in the HD-A1, would it play with alot of skipping / jumpiness on the Toshiba. Hopefully its only the HD-DVD titles.

conqst99

01-19-07, 05:06 AM

Here's a dumb question for you guys. Its probably been discussed but here goes. I have a Panny 50" plasma with 768p native rez (not a 1080p set). What difference can I expect to notice between running the HD-A1 at 1080i (which is what I run it at all the time) and 720p. I have firmware 2.0 so supposedly the 720p glitch is fixed although I haven't tried it yet. Will the picture on the screen be any larger using 720p output as opposed to the 1080i output from the HD-A1? For 2.35:1 movies, on the 1080i setting, I have the normal top and bottom black bars on the screen. And since my TV has 768p native, I'm wondering if it will look any better than the 1080i coming into it. The 1080i picture looks awesome, but I'm just curious as to everyone's opinion on this.
On another note, a member several days ago posted a link to a site that gives HD-DVD reviews which is an invaluable place to check before buying a hd-dvd. I'm wondering if you can sort on that site to the most highly recommended to the worst. I bought Full Metal Jacket yesterday on ebay NEW for real cheap, but see that the review for it is TERRIBLE for an HD-DVD.

conqst99

01-19-07, 05:07 AM

JOHNnDENVER

01-19-07, 06:58 AM

You would have to know exactly how your display does the scale from 1080i to 768p -vs- 720p to 768p.....

Conventional wisdom would definetly be to send the highest res possible and let the display scale it to it's native res. But in reality, this is all a try it and see for yourself thing, and choose the one you think is best.

Tim Neuland

01-19-07, 03:10 PM

Ahh, thanx Tim. So you had a problem too. I resurfaced mine twice and then subsequently cleaned it both times and have yet to try it again but it definitely looks better. Someone in a previous mentioned that single layer discs are not as touchy. How do you know which movies have both? Or maybe its mentioned right on the back of the disc case (don't have one in front of me).
I'm wondering if I put the same dvd (same one that is fairly marked up with fingerprints) in my Sony normal dvd player upstairs and the same one downstairs in the HD-A1, would it play with alot of skipping / jumpiness on the Toshiba. Hopefully its only the HD-DVD titles.
Any SD-DVD will look rock solid, no skipping. It is the small feature size of the HD-DVD that makes scratches and grease cause the skips. The data transfer rate and all the math involved combine to make the HD-DVD player less tolerant.

They will find ways to test for this, and make less sensitive players, but we early adopters have to put up with the "bleeding edge" of technology.

I'm okay with it.

conqst99

01-19-07, 03:20 PM

Any SD-DVD will look rock solid, no skipping. It is the small feature size of the HD-DVD that makes scratches and grease cause the skips. The data transfer rate and all the math involved combine to make the HD-DVD player less tolerant.

They will find ways to test for this, and make less sensitive players, but we early adopters have to put up with the "bleeding edge" of technology.

I'm okay with it.

Tim -
Yeah, since its so new, no big deal. What scares me is that I signed up for the Blockbuster Total Access to get HD-DVD's thru the mail (as well as mostly SD dvds) but the way people are rough with discs that they rent, what are the chances that I'll ever get good ones in the mail that don't skip if these machines are that touchy.
What sucks is that on my HD-A1, the King Kong disc utterly stopped and said "disc error...cannot read the disc" and I could do NOTHING to get that off the lcd.....I had to hold the power button in for 10 seconds until it finally shut off.
I guess the best rule of thumb PRIOR to watching ANY hd-dvd is to make sure you clean it real good to get rid of fingerprints (besides with the annoying feature that you cannot resume an hd-dvd from where you stopped it you have to select a scene all over again from the main menu)

slogun

01-19-07, 03:27 PM

Tim -
Yeah, since its so new, no big deal. What scares me is that I signed up for the Blockbuster Total Access to get HD-DVD's thru the mail (as well as mostly SD dvds) but the way people are rough with discs that they rent, what are the chances that I'll ever get good ones in the mail that don't skip if these machines are that touchy.
What sucks is that on my HD-A1, the King Kong disc utterly stopped and said "disc error...cannot read the disc" and I could do NOTHING to get that off the lcd.....I had to hold the power button in for 10 seconds until it finally shut off.
I guess the best rule of thumb PRIOR to watching ANY hd-dvd is to make sure you clean it real good to get rid of fingerprints (besides with the annoying feature that you cannot resume an hd-dvd from where you stopped it you have to select a scene all over again from the main menu)
I've rented a number of HD-DVDs from both NF and BBO and only ran into one bad disk so far (from NF).
As for the last issue you mentioned, try pressing the B button at the bottom of the HD-A1 remote, it let's you bookmark the spot. Works at least on newer HD-DVDs(such as Superman Returns).

BasicBlak

01-19-07, 05:46 PM

conqst99

01-20-07, 03:49 AM

I'd stick with 1080i. Even with f/w v2.0 I find that 1080i from my HD-A1 still looks noticeably better on my 720p native DLP. Your mileage may vary, however. :) At the end of the day, you're better off experimenting, experimenting, experimenting. It's great to solicit input from others, but set-ups vary and the only true way to determine what works on your set is to put your equipment thru its paces to see what best works for you. That said, in my book there are no dumb questions. :)

Good point. I'll have to find time to experiment. In my household though, with a 5 year old and 6 month old, there never seems to be any time to experiment, let alone even watch a movie in the new theater room! That seems to be the consensus, every room / tv has different characteristcs that have to be customized to your preference. I guess the same goes for people with the brightness settings, etc on their tvs. Some like it a heck of alot brighter than others, but depends on the lighting in the room, etc. CYA!

On another note, anyone out there know HOW HOT these HD-A1's actually get? I only have about 2 inches from the back of the unit where the fan is to the wall of the entertainment center and for proper ventilation, I have my doubt this is sufficient. I'm thinking about cutting a big hole in the hardboard back to the entertainment center to allow for some of the air to move better. Comments?

JimP

01-20-07, 08:19 AM

conqst99,

Not sure about the back distance for proper ventilation as my component cabinet is open on the back, but I have noticed I have less problems if I have an extra inch of clearance on top. When I have my video processor directly on top, I get the occassional stutter. Since I need the space for this component, I layed a VHS tape on top of the A1 and then put the processor on top of it. Evidently, the difference in ventilation was enough to help with the stuttering. Regarding the VHS tape, its a duplicate of a DVD I have and the DVD quality is much better.

rotaryboy

01-20-07, 11:40 AM

conqst99

01-22-07, 11:34 AM

Well on my 50 Panasonic plasma (768p native) I see no difference at all between 1080i and 720p. I've tried a few movies and they all look the same to me so I left it at 1080i.

I sure love the A1... for all the complaining mine has been rock solid. I've watched 5-7 titles and not had one screw-up yet.

Thanks for the comments and opinion Rotaryboy. That's good to know.

Dave224

01-23-07, 01:17 AM

My thoughts and experiences on my HD-A1:

Bought "Phantom" with the player about 6 weeks ago. Got the last player my local Best Buy had, but I wanted the analog outs, so.......... "Phantom" played great (had to turn the volume way up) until about 2/3 thru, then got a half speed/double speed stutter. Replayed the chapter and it worked all the way to the end. I did not clean the disc. Played several SD discs with no problem. All looked(and sounded) great, too. I have not had a single glitch playing any SD disc so far.

I played "The Perfect Storm" from NF. Had two audio delays/unsyncs that were fixed by pausing. I played a CD that worked for awhile, but then started skipping, then no sound. Heard a loud screech. Stopped player, took out CD, turned off the player. Tried to turn it back on an hour later, but it would not startup past the "welcome". Tried many, many things to get it back up. Sent it in to Toshiba to get fixed(no replacements available). It is now back and works, I guess.

I have played about 4 HD discs from NF since, and have not had one yet without some kind of problem. I have not really cleaned any discs very well until the last one. That played with only one audio unsync. So I guess I will have to keep cleaning them.

Tomorrow will be a good test. The "Eagles Farewell 1 Tour" HD disc will be here. This disc is one of the main reasons I got this player. I have the SD version, and it is IMO the best thing I have heard on my system-ever. I am really looking forward to the HD version. I am going to clean the disc, and see if it plays straight thru. If it doesn't, then I will have to consider my options on this player.

I have until the 24th to return it to BB, either for a refund or trade for a HD-A2. Are the A2s any more stable than the A1s? Maybe I should get the refund and wait for the HD-A20? How stable will that be? And with no analogs?

Much has been written about how good the HD-DVDs and BRs look and sound. I guess everyone knows that by now. What I think is really needed is a poll/thread to track and compare nothing but the reliability and stability of all the players out there, both formats, so we can see if there is any player that will give us that great picture and sound-without any interruptions. I have found that any increased enjoyment I get from the HD experience is sapped when all you can think about is when the next freeze-up/stutter will come.

But then maybe I should look at this machine as just an experiment. I guess $400 is not too much of an investment for an experiment. Thinking like that might even make it more fun. :)

I'll let you know how "The Eagles" turned out.

conqst99

01-23-07, 05:13 AM

djarchow

01-23-07, 10:36 AM

I took my A1 back to BB last night. I had bought it as an open box right after Christmas. After I upgraded to v2 of the firmware had very few problems playing Sd of HD disks including King Kong. Never any stutter or freeze-ups. Picture quality and sound were great.

Here are the other problems I had:

Last week the audio stopped working. I could still hear the sound of the menus but no soundtrack. I had to unplug the unit to get the sound back.

All the player splash screens, setup screens etc turned pink. Movies looked fine though. Changing the player skins had no effect. I was not able to fix this.

We have a video camera in our toddlers room that I can access in the HT on the projector. My wife likes to pause the movie and check the camera to make sure he isn't getting out of bed. Anytime we would switch the projector over to the camera, the A1 would register a lost HDMI connection, and stop the movie, of course with no resume after stop on most of the movies it was a pain to get back to our spot in the movie. Hopefully the A2 is better about this.

My wife just refused to use the A1 as she expected it to work like a normal DVD player in that you can turn it on and immediately play, eject the movie etc. The long start up time coupled with having to cycle the projector hdmi input a couple times to finally get the two to sync HDMI was more than she was willing to put up with to just watch a movie, even if it did look better than regular DVD.

On a related note, when I was at Best Buy returning the A1 last night I was going to play with the A2 a bit. There was a couple looking at the A2 on display and they had just turned it on. They were repeatedly punching "play" on the unit and of course nothing happened because it was still "booting up". The guy made the comment that there must be something wrong with it and they walked away. 30 seconds later it was ready to play but the couple was gone.

I was very happy with the picture and sound on the A1, but the glitches and less than great usability are what prompted to me to take it back and look into a gen 2 player.

jameskollar

01-23-07, 10:46 AM

We have a video camera in our toddlers room that I can access in the HT on the projector. My wife likes to pause the movie and check the camera to make sure he isn't getting out of bed. Anytime we would switch the projector over to the camera, the A1 would register a lost HDMI connection, and stop the movie, of course with no resume after stop on most of the movies it was a pain to get back to our spot in the movie. Hopefully the A2 is better about this.

I hate the lack of resume also. I don't think the A2 will help but if it does, please post back here. I've gone format neutral, in addition to my A1 I own a Philips BDP9000. It acts more like a regular DVD player, it has resume and can be had for $599 at Amazon.

lujan

01-23-07, 11:17 AM

...

...

My wife just refused to use the A1 as she expected it to work like a normal DVD player in that you can turn it on and immediately play, eject the movie etc. The long start up time coupled with having to cycle the projector hdmi input a couple times to finally get the two to sync HDMI was more than she was willing to put up with to just watch a movie, even if it did look better than regular DVD.

I ALWAYS GO A DO SOMETHING ELSE (MAKE POPCORN, GO TO BATHROOM, ETC.) SO THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME. IT'S WORTH THE WAIT FOR THE BEAUTIFUL PICTURE.

On a related note, when I was at Best Buy returning the A1 last night I was going to play with the A2 a bit. There was a couple looking at the A2 on display and they had just turned it on. They were repeatedly punching "play" on the unit and of course nothing happened because it was still "booting up". ...

:D :D That's funny! I wonder how many people leave without ever giving it a try because it takes so long to boot up?

redjr

01-23-07, 11:24 AM

....We have a video camera in our toddlers room that I can access in the HT on the projector. My wife likes to pause the movie and check the camera to make sure he isn't getting out of bed. Anytime we would switch the projector over to the camera, the A1 would register a lost HDMI connection, and stop the movie, of course with no resume after stop on most of the movies it was a pain to get back to our spot in the movie. Hopefully the A2 is better about this.....

This is a drag, but unfortunately, the A1, or XA1 won't even startup until it establishes a valid HDCP compliant display device. Switching inputs and then back requires almost a complete soft-boot of the player to re-establish the HDCP connection. Don't know if the A2, or A20 will be any better in this regard. :(

I'm very happy with my XA1.. I have this 'thing' about 1st-gen and glad I snagged the XA1, with analog out for a rock-bottom price from VE last fall. Just wish I had more titles to watch. :D

djarchow

01-23-07, 12:40 PM

I hate the lack of resume also.

Unfortunately resume has to be coded into the disk itself, not the player. I am not sure if it is this way on SD DVD but the resume feature works fine on the A1 with regular DVDs. I do have a toshiba HD DVD demo disk that resumes just like regular DVD. Of course you can always use bookmarks but I never remember to.

It is a shame that this isn't a mandatory feature on all HD DVDs but Amir was saying that the HDi stuff complicates the problem somewhat.

HiHoStevo

01-23-07, 12:45 PM

I do have a toshiba HD DVD demo disk that resumes just like regular DVD.

Lucky Sod!

I cannot believe that Toshiba did not include this disk with every player. What a great advertising tool it would have been... everyone who has a player would have been using it to demonstrate the difference between HD-DVD and SD-DVD at their homes........ Toshiba really missed out and screwed up on that one!

I tried to find a copy, but have been unsuccessful .... wah!

Dave224

01-23-07, 10:36 PM

I'll let you know how "The Eagles" turned out.

Well, I thought that the DTS off the SD disc was great, but this HD version topped it. Simply the best I have ever heard. This disc played perfectly, as did a HD-DVD of "Good Night and Good Luck". I guess cleaning discs really does help, but I still wish it wasn't necessary to have it THAT clean.

I think I will now keep this player. Hope I don't regret it. :confused:

rhahm

01-24-07, 12:40 PM

I have an HDA1 with the 2.0 update connected to a Yamaha 1600 via HDMI

Should I set the A1 to Auto, PCM, Bitstream, or Downmixed PCM for HDMI?

Can I get multi channel TrueHD with any of these setups?

I find this all very confusing. I have had Bitstream enabled for HDMI in the past but think this may be the wrong setting.

thanks

JOHNnDENVER

01-24-07, 12:45 PM

PCM and Auto are the two that should give the TrueHD after decoding by the player.

debyrd

01-24-07, 03:09 PM

I always use the eject command as a power button on my A1. After 40 seconds the drawer opens. I walk over and insert the disc and close the drawer.

There is ample time to switch the TV to its other HDMI input while the disc is loading.
By the time I get the TV switched over, the HD DVD logo appears. By the time I take another swig of beer the movie menu is up. Using this proceedure keeps me free from HDMI handshake errors.

It must be my imagination but it just seems like the boot sequence is faster by using the eject button to start it up.

edit to fix wrong info...."it is ok to hit the eject button while the movie is playing. I had previously stated it would lock up. Further investigation shows that is not the case. Sorry about that"

I'm hoping a firmware upgrade will fix a few these quirks. But I'm very happy with the performance of my A1. I own about 20 titles and rent three at a time from Netflix.

-Byrd

slogun

01-24-07, 03:20 PM

I always use the eject command as a power button on my A1. After 40 seconds the drawer opens. I walk over and insert the disc and close the drawer.
Me too.

It must be my imagination but it just seems like the boot sequence is faster by using the eject button to start it up.
I think it's your imagination about start up, but you are saving some time overall.
As opposed to:(startup......then....pause......open.......)

By the way, don't ever hit the eject button until the disc has come to a stop. It will lock it up every time.
I haven't had that problem.
I use eject to stop AND eject the disc. Once I remove the disk I use Power off to power down AND close the drawer (again, saves time).

I'm hoping a firmware upgrade will fix a few these quirks. But I'm very happy with the performance of my A1.
It's been said here that now that the HD-A2 is out, we won't be seeing anymore firmware updates for our 'A1s.
I've had my HD-A1 since August, and I enjoy it immensely.

debyrd

01-24-07, 03:46 PM

I use eject to stop AND eject the disc. Once I remove the disk I use Power off to power down AND close the drawer (again, saves time).

It's been said here that now that the HD-A2 is out, we won't be seeing anymore firmware updates for our 'A1s.
I've had my HD-A1 since August, and I enjoy it immensely.

Now I'm starting to think this may happen only on music CD discs. I listen to a lot of music on my A1. I have to hit stop twice to make the disc stop. This is where I locked it up a few times, not hitting stop twice. I will double check that because there wouldn't likely be a difference in the behavior of two machines with the same firmware.

EDIT: further investigation shows the unit does NOT lock up if you press eject while playing a movie. My bad, sorry.

I got my A1 in August but it was built earlier....like May I think. If Toshiba doesn't upgrade us I may get the XA2. I need the 5.1 discrete audio outputs so the A2 won't fill the bill for me. The XA2 has some serious horsepower.

My Philips plasma is still getting updates and newer models have come out since I bought it in August '05. I really believe Toshiba will continue to make firmware improvements on the G1 units. But they must be busy as bees crankin' out the new stuff.

-Byrd

2004ex

01-24-07, 03:46 PM

Even though I had read quite a bit about potential hda1 video freezing, audio dropping problems in this thread, and that people are switching to A2s, I still forged ahead (with crossed-fingers) and bought a second-hand A1 unit a couple of days ago. The unit was manufactured in July 2006 (Japan) and was in very good condition when received. Ordered a couple of brand new HDDVD disks from amazon to try out. To my dismay (or surprise), the A1 could not play through even a brand new disk (Batman Begins). It had at least 10 or so hickups throughout the movie. I was told that the player had been upgraded to firmware 2.0. Anyone else having problems playing a virgin disk? Any pointers to a good disk cleaning method? The manual suggested radial cleaning with a soft cloth, how soft is soft?

slogun

01-24-07, 04:01 PM

I really believe Toshiba will continue to make firmware improvements on the G1 units.
"A1", yes I would hope you're right about firmwre updates, especially since the machine can easily update over it's ethernet port.

conqst99

01-25-07, 04:49 AM

I finally received my set of analog 5.1 cables in the mail after contemplating different brands over the last week. I'm ready to hook them up this weekend. I do have one question which I can't remember if I read here before. Please confirm what I think here.
The digital optical & digital coaxial outs on the rear of the HD-A1 can only pass thru dolby digital and DTS signals (it will automatically convert any dolby digital signal to DTS whether it be 5.1 or 6.1 / EX audio). On the other hand, the 5.1 analog outs will take the uncompressed signal (LOSSLESS?) from the HD-A1 and decode it there and my non-HDMI receiver will get this signal via its 6 channel direct in jacks and doesn't have to do ANY decoding to the signal.
My question is, the use of the 5.1 analog jacks versus my existing coaxial connection must be used to hear Dolby Digital Plus and can I hear this from using my coaxial hookup? I know it passes thru sound via my coaxial for DD+ soundtracks but am I really hearing the DD+ soundtrack or is it downconverted to DTS? (I know that I definitely need the analog outs to hear the TrueHD soundtrack....I do have the 2.0 firmware). Thanx All

adrman

01-25-07, 08:49 AM

I know it passes thru sound via my coaxial for DD+ soundtracks but am I really hearing the DD+ soundtrack or is it downconverted to DTS?

The player will convert DD+ to DTS for output on the coax/optical.

conqst99

01-25-07, 11:26 AM

The player will convert DD+ to DTS for output on the coax/optical.

OK, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure. But to hear DD+ and TrueHD audio, you can ONLY get these from using either HDMI OR the 5.1 analog outs, right?

On another note, I'm wondering if I would see any improvement in PQ if I bought (down the road when the price comes down) the new HD-XA2 player with 1080P. I presently have my HD-A1 hooked up to my Panny 50" plasma with 768P rez. I ALWAYS have the resolution of the HD-A1 set at 1080i via HDMI going into the TV. Any picture quality gain from 1080i to 1080P on a 768P plasma (wish I had a 1080p plasma but can't afford it!)

marann

01-25-07, 12:31 PM

The player will convert DD+ to DTS for output on the coax/optical.

Sound through the analog outs on my A1 connected to my
Sony NON-HDMI reciever sounds terrible. It almost
sounds like Dolby Prologic.

Sony STR-DE835 (DTS/Dolby Digital reveiver WITH analog 5.1 inputs)
Tosh HD-A1 HD-DVD player / Firmware 2.0
No sub connected

When using the 5.1 inputs on the Sony, the only control
I have is the front balance and rear balance. No level
adjustments possible.

I switch and TrueHD enabled HD-DVD disc to "TrueHD"
and it sounds like garbage. DTS through Optical or coax
sounds infinitely better. I can't imagine what I'm doing
wrong. I've tried setting the speakers to small, and large
in the Tosh setup, tried changing the other audio setting in the Tosh.
nothing helps. As a matter of fact, when using the 5.1 inputs,
and I change (in the DVD menu) from Dolby or whatever it is, to
Dolby TrueHD, I hear no difference at all.
The only difference I hear is when I switch from Coax DTS (sounds amazing)
to 5.1 inputs (TrueHD) it sounds absolutely terrible, flat, and barely get
any volume in the rear channels.

zapper

01-25-07, 01:38 PM

My opinion only. if you have a 7.1 sound system I think that it's just better not to use the so called True Dolby, haven't heard any real significant when using it, if you have then good for you must have super hearing??

rhahm

01-25-07, 01:59 PM

I have an HDA1 with the 2.0 update connected to a Yamaha 1600 via HDMI

HDMI set to AUTO (also tried PCM) in A1

Set audio to TrueHD playing Troy HDDVD

No dialog is heard ??? Rest of sound is fine - just nothing when actors are talking

DD+ works fine...

Center channel set to none in A1 and receiver (using phantom center) 4.0 system

Please advise

thanx

JOHNnDENVER

01-25-07, 02:41 PM

You can't use a phantom center period with TrueHD, this has been reported and confirmed.

jameskollar

01-25-07, 08:41 PM

Sound through the analog outs on my A1 connected to my
Sony NON-HDMI reciever sounds terrible. It almost
sounds like Dolby Prologic.

Sony STR-DE835 (DTS/Dolby Digital reveiver WITH analog 5.1 inputs)
Tosh HD-A1 HD-DVD player / Firmware 2.0
No sub connected

When using the 5.1 inputs on the Sony, the only control
I have is the front balance and rear balance. No level
adjustments possible.

I switch and TrueHD enabled HD-DVD disc to "TrueHD"
and it sounds like garbage. DTS through Optical or coax
sounds infinitely better. I can't imagine what I'm doing
wrong. I've tried setting the speakers to small, and large
in the Tosh setup, tried changing the other audio setting in the Tosh.
nothing helps. As a matter of fact, when using the 5.1 inputs,
and I change (in the DVD menu) from Dolby or whatever it is, to
Dolby TrueHD, I hear no difference at all.
The only difference I hear is when I switch from Coax DTS (sounds amazing)
to 5.1 inputs (TrueHD) it sounds absolutely terrible, flat, and barely get
any volume in the rear channels.

Are you SURE you're at 2.0? Did you try the speaker test in the setup menu? If it passed the speaker test, I would bet you dollars to donuts you have version 1.4 or before. There are no settings in the setup menu that affect the analog outs.

rrunner102

01-25-07, 09:49 PM

I have the exact same problem with 2.0 firmware, Use the Analog outputs for 2 channel stereo instead of FRONT speaker output. That should fix the dialogue problem.I notice a significant improvement in sound on regular dvd for Analog out compared to HDDVD. Never had good luck with Dolby THD.Using only DD+

jameskollar

01-25-07, 10:52 PM

Dave224

01-26-07, 12:52 AM

Sound through the analog outs on my A1 connected to my
Sony NON-HDMI reciever sounds terrible. It almost
sounds like Dolby Prologic.

The first thing I would do to find the correct analog setup is to disconnect your coax for now so no sound is possible except thru the analogs.

Next,

In the HD-A1 setup menu, audio section, you must select PCM for "Digital Out SPDIF". And on your receiver you must choose DVD as the source and multi-channel as the input.

marann

01-26-07, 07:24 AM

Are you SURE you're at 2.0? Did you try the speaker test in the setup menu? If it passed the speaker test, I would bet you dollars to donuts you have version 1.4 or before. There are no settings in the setup menu that affect the analog outs.

Yup, I'm at 2.0 alright ...
I did the update a couple of weeks
ago and it said succesfull. I'll check
again tonight to make sure though.

I tried the speaker test. Oddly enough,
when I test the rear speakers, I get sound
from the mains ??? (The wiring is fine, every
other sound format and device output to the
correct speakers)

marann

01-26-07, 07:29 AM

The first thing I would do to find the correct analog setup is to disconnect your coax for now so no sound is possible except thru the analogs.

Yup, did that.

Next,
In the HD-A1 setup menu, audio section, you must select PCM for "Digital Out SPDIF".

I THINK I tried that. I must have, but I'll give it a shot again tonight.

And on your receiver you must choose DVD as the source and multi-channel as the input.

Yes that was done too. I had to define WHICH source will use the 5.1 analog ins.
So now when I hit "DVD" it defaults to using the 5.1 inputs and NOT the coax.
If I hadn't done this, I wouldn't be getting any sound.
But I'll double check everything again, thanks for the help !

rare-air

01-26-07, 08:31 AM

Sound through the analog outs on my A1 connected to my
Sony NON-HDMI reciever sounds terrible. It almost
sounds like Dolby Prologic.

Sony STR-DE835 (DTS/Dolby Digital reveiver WITH analog 5.1 inputs)
Tosh HD-A1 HD-DVD player / Firmware 2.0
No sub connected

When using the 5.1 inputs on the Sony, the only control
I have is the front balance and rear balance. No level
adjustments possible.

I switch and TrueHD enabled HD-DVD disc to "TrueHD"
and it sounds like garbage. DTS through Optical or coax
sounds infinitely better. I can't imagine what I'm doing
wrong. I've tried setting the speakers to small, and large
in the Tosh setup, tried changing the other audio setting in the Tosh.
nothing helps. As a matter of fact, when using the 5.1 inputs,
and I change (in the DVD menu) from Dolby or whatever it is, to
Dolby TrueHD, I hear no difference at all.
The only difference I hear is when I switch from Coax DTS (sounds amazing)
to 5.1 inputs (TrueHD) it sounds absolutely terrible, flat, and barely get
any volume in the rear channels.

I believe this is associated with the LFE -10db problem. I had the same issue that can only be controlled by turning the front's down so that the rear's are louder in relation to the front. I set my L/C/R to -10db and left the rear's and sub at 0db. You will have to crank the volume but the rear surrounds will now be loud enough to hear the effects. Certain AV recievers have more control than my Yamaha which has no control over the analog 6 channels so all adjustments are done in the A1.
Once I set my initial -10db starting point I adjusted with DVE to balance the SPL. I would say that my Analogs now sound on par LFE wise with opticial.

-Craig

rare-air

01-26-07, 08:34 AM

marann

01-26-07, 09:37 AM

I believe this is associated with the LFE -10db problem. I had the same issue that can only be controlled by turning the front's down so that the rear's are louder in relation to the front. I set my L/C/R to -10db and left the rear's and sub at 0db. You will have to crank the volume but the rear surrounds will now be loud enough to hear the effects.

Right, and I could do that as my reciever has no volume adjust feature
for the analog inputs either, only balance, BUT, the problem is that even if (and
I have) get the volume right, it still sounds awefull. Nowhere near as good, or
as detailed as DTS through coax, which is not right if I understand the
whole TrueHD thing correctly ...
Aside from the volume thing, TrueHD (in my case anyway) sounds as bad
as Prologic. That CAN'T be TrueHD I'm hearing ...

Certain AV recievers have more control than my Yamaha which has no control over the analog 6 channels so all adjustments are done in the A1.
Once I set my initial -10db starting point I adjusted with DVE to balance the SPL. I would say that my Analogs now sound on par LFE wise with opticial.
-Craig

And does TrueHD sound better than DTS in your case ?
(Aside from any volume issues)

JOHNnDENVER

01-26-07, 11:08 AM

No explanation, maybe your A1's analog out is fubar'd. The A1 has an impressive analog section there and should be of the highest fidelity.

marann

01-26-07, 11:25 AM

No explanation, maybe your A1's analog out is fubar'd. The A1 has an impressive analog section there and should be of the highest fidelity.

That's true too.
Well at least I know it's only me,
and not a known issue ....

Thanks ....

rhahm

01-26-07, 06:28 PM

You can't use a phantom center period with TrueHD, this has been reported and confirmed.

Thank you for the information

gene9p

01-27-07, 09:06 AM

OK, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure. But to hear DD+ and TrueHD audio, you can ONLY get these from using either HDMI OR the 5.1 analog outs, right?

On another note, I'm wondering if I would see any improvement in PQ if I bought (down the road when the price comes down) the new HD-XA2 player with 1080P. I presently have my HD-A1 hooked up to my Panny 50" plasma with 768P rez. I ALWAYS have the resolution of the HD-A1 set at 1080i via HDMI going into the TV. Any picture quality gain from 1080i to 1080P on a 768P plasma (wish I had a 1080p plasma but can't afford it!)

your tv is not capable of 1080p...so it will be the same..your tv is also rated as a 720p tv...so 1080i will look just fine..as far as 1080i vs 1080p..it is immeasurable in all lab tests..so therefore unseeable..which makes it nothing more than a marketing scheme..read up..there are so many articles about this now..they are identical..1080i and 1080p..anyone who tells you different is imagining there is a difference..because it just does not exist