Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports! [Text View] - Page 9

hi im drummer03

04-19-06, 10:05 PM

Got my HD-A1 yesterday from BB. I am having difficulty setting it up properly. I have a Sony KDSR-60XBR1, and a Denon 2807. I also have a Panasonic DVD-S77. When I had the Panasonic hooked up via HDMI to the 2807 and then the 2807 to the Sony, everything worked fine. I unplugged the Panasonic and plugged in the HD-A1, and it's been downhill ever since. I can hook the HD-A1 directly to the Sony via HDMI and get a picture (wow!), and audio through the TV. I can hook the HD-A1 to the 2807 via the HDMI cable and get audio, but nothing but a green screen. Does anyone out there have a 2807 and a HD-A1 hooked up together? The other thing I have tried is hooking the HD-A1 via HDMI directly to the TV and using the optical out to the 2807. No audio. I have also tried using the digital coax out from the HD-A1 to the 2807 and I do get audio. Is the audio via the coax output going to be of equivalent quality as via the HDMI? Any suggestions? Thanks!
The reason your just getting a green screen when you run the HD-A1 through your reciever your getting HTCP compliant bringing up the green screen.As if your not getting sound when hookinh it to the TV and optical to sound system.If optical from the tv to reciever it will not work as the TV does not have pass through.If its from the player to reciever then something is set wrong.

b2bonez

04-19-06, 10:25 PM

Here is the link for the review. Guess I will wait out a bit
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Toshiba_HD_A1/4505-6463_16-31736203.html

Very good and accurate review (didn't notice any mis-information). It would be good to keep up with this review as they are saying it will be updated as new titles are released and other displays are tested. Notice they did mention a little about HDMI/HDCP being flakey.

b2b

realracer2

04-19-06, 10:32 PM

Got my HD-A1 yesterday from BB. I am having difficulty setting it up properly. I have a Sony KDSR-60XBR1, and a Denon 2807. I also have a Panasonic DVD-S77. When I had the Panasonic hooked up via HDMI to the 2807 and then the 2807 to the Sony, everything worked fine. I unplugged the Panasonic and plugged in the HD-A1, and it's been downhill ever since. I can hook the HD-A1 directly to the Sony via HDMI and get a picture (wow!), and audio through the TV. I can hook the HD-A1 to the 2807 via the HDMI cable and get audio, but nothing but a green screen. Does anyone out there have a 2807 and a HD-A1 hooked up together? The other thing I have tried is hooking the HD-A1 via HDMI directly to the TV and using the optical out to the 2807. No audio. I have also tried using the digital coax out from the HD-A1 to the 2807 and I do get audio. Is the audio via the coax output going to be of equivalent quality as via the HDMI? Any suggestions? Thanks!

I got my HD-A1 today and hooked it up to my Denon 2807. I ran the HDMI from the HD-A1 to the Denon and another HDMI cable to my Toshiba TV. I am having no problems with the picture or sound. I made sure I went through the setup menu on the HD-A1 and set everything to HDMI auto. I went into the menu on the Denon 2807 and also set it up for HDMI auto. I have read so many posts, I am not sure which one I read, but someone said to turn off the sound on the TV, when hooking up the HDMI cables.

I have not received any HD DVDs yet, but so far I am very pleased with the picture and sound I am getting from SD DVDs.

jocktheglide

04-19-06, 10:38 PM

I just wanted to tell you guys that I wen to BB today they had two identical pioneer tvs (could only do 1200x800 res though) and they had a sony progressive, HDMI, upconvert playing next to the HD-A1 and I have to say I was impressed folks this is awesome I could not believe there was a diff. at al, but there was from right there and on I knew I had to have it. I drove to all BB and other electronics retailer and they had NONE in stock so I came home and long and behold crutchfield has the HD-A1X in stock!!! I fooking bought it fast as possible in 3 days it be mine all mine. truely a difference I cant imagine it on my sony 60XBR1 tv that handles 1980x1020 res this will be totally impressive.

Robert D

04-19-06, 10:45 PM

Very good and accurate review (didn't notice any mis-information). It would be good to keep up with this review as they are saying it will be updated as new titles are released and other displays are tested. Notice they did mention a little about HDMI/HDCP being flakey.

b2b

Hmm I found just a few errors.

"The bad: No 1080p video output; slow start-up and sluggish operation; confusing audio setup options; network connection can't be used to stream media from PC; minuscule list of HD titles available; only three major studios releasing HD-DVD discs; discs can be programmed to display at lower resolution when displayed via component-video outputs."

First the issue of 1080p output, read this http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html

"network connection can't be used to stream media" well duh the player was never designed to do that so they ding it? wtf

"discs can be programmed to display at lower resolution when displayed via component-video outputs." Please come on this has nothing to do with Toshiba or the player. Toshiba is just doing what the law says re component video out.

I guess we should expect to see these biased reviews from now on.

chuckken

04-19-06, 10:48 PM

Saw this over at www.hdlibrary.com under "HD coffee shop and chit chat"

Okay, here goes...The first thing you are gonna want to do is throw the remote control in the garbage...No backlit buttons and the lettering is unseeable without 100 watt lights overhead...(not a big deal to me cause I use the MX-3000)...Picture quality is only a notch or two above a good upscalable player, but I do like the way the aspect ratio looks better than conventional upscaled dvd players, The big WOW is the audio!...Man, I noticed the difference immediately!...The sound quality is astounding!...I am not much on menu's and gaming so I will leave that for someone else to comment on...---Bottom Line-----I was disappointed in the quality of video...looks exactly like Directv HD Movies...(crystal clear on close ups, but unfocused on panned out shots)...But I am glad I bought it for the audio portion...If you are not a big audio buff, don't even waste your money on Blu-Ray technology...I think we are getting close to peaking out on video quality in movies...Now only 1080P (or higher) left to review...BTW, I have never seen HD-VHS so there's a chance it is actually better than this so called "pure" HD-DVD...(as far as video anyways)... Oh, I forgot to mention that I watched the movie and listened to sound through HDMI (which no doubt accounts for the semi lossless audio)...simply amazing sound quality. I have the new Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXvi receiver with 2 HDMI in and 1 out. The movie I watched was "Serenity".

HDTVwannabe

04-19-06, 10:49 PM

Plan on waiting another hour or so to reach best light conditions inside the house, then watching TLS [review to follow], also first time viewing this movie in any format.

System; [Video]: HDA1-HDMI/1080i-Panny TH42PX50U plasma \ [Audio]: HDA1-Optical audio cable-cheap Sony receiver, that accepts/outputs DD and DTS5.1

[Movie]: The Last Samurai. I found that I enjoyed it (admittedly, great AV quality helps draw you in). I don't know the actual events behind the movie, but even if not based on any real events, its a decent movie all the same. Only downside is the overall length when some of it wasn't needed to tell the story.

[Video]: Excellent on my system. I kept finding myself expecting macroblocking or "noise" - seeing as I'm used it from D* or OTA - but even though I looked for it, I never saw it. I really expected these things to pop up during Algren's flashbacks of killing the innocent Indian tribe and then the huge battles at the end [both in all the movement and smoke from the cannons], but again, never detected anything - at least nothing that jumped off the screen at me. I did notice a little film grain in dark & inside shots, but nothing that came close to ruining the experience for me. The colors popped and I loved the scenery shots that included grass - of which there were alot - because you could see each individual blade. I enjoyed the video portion of the movie alot and will in the future.

[Audio]: As mentioned before, I'm not big on the audio side of things, but the sound was top notch from what I could tell - "top notch" on my system and usual levels of "reference", that is. Don't have any other format to go by when it comes to watching this movie, but the surrounds seemed well used and proportionate to the overall sound output.

Overall, I consider a viewing of The Last Samurai on HD-DVD to be worth it and repeat viewing would not be a bad thing (if you got the time ;) ).

30XS955 User

04-19-06, 10:58 PM

I have a question: is it worth it to upgrade to HD DVD considering my tv is a Sony 30XS955? Will I see much detail improvement? Thanks for replies! :)

jocktheglide

04-19-06, 11:01 PM

I have a question: is it worth it to upgrade to HD DVD considering my tv is a Sony 30XS955? Will I see much detail improvement? Thanks for replies! :)
yeah if you have HDMI inputs on that TV, but I think like most folks said though you will see a major diff if you have a 60inch or bigger tv its just impressive man at BB they had a comparison and you could tell no doubt which was HD and whats not.

30XS955 User

04-19-06, 11:06 PM

Jocktheglide, how does HDMI matter if the movie isn't downrez flagged? Better color values, chroma is it?

b2bonez

04-19-06, 11:09 PM

Hmm I found just a few errors.

"The bad: No 1080p video output; slow start-up and sluggish operation; confusing audio setup options; network connection can't be used to stream media from PC; minuscule list of HD titles available; only three major studios releasing HD-DVD discs; discs can be programmed to display at lower resolution when displayed via component-video outputs."

First the issue of 1080p output, read this http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html

"network connection can't be used to stream media" well duh the player was never designed to do that so they ding it? wtf

"discs can be programmed to display at lower resolution when displayed via component-video outputs." Please come on this has nothing to do with Toshiba or the player. Toshiba is just doing what the law says re component video out.

I guess we should expect to see these biased reviews from now on.

I think you found a few things you didn't like them bringing up. You could argue relevance, but not a single thing you mentioned is factually in error. :rolleyes:

b2b

kemical_head

04-19-06, 11:25 PM

Ok, I have read the post by Sspears that states that if you use optical or coaxial out you only get DTS. This is due to the box only having a DTS decoder or encoder. So, here is where the confusion comes in:

1. The manual and the website both say that the player has a DD decoder, so as long as it's a track on the disc it should output via optical/coaxial.

2. There have been several posts stating that if a disc has DD+ you should be able to get DD from it which would make sense for backwards compatability.

3. If DD+ and any other super duper audio format was going to be part of HD-DVD then why would they only have a 6 channel analog out with no surroundback channel outs? Seriously, practically every receiver sold in the last year and a half has either 6.1 or 7.1 capability. What happened to Dolby Digital EX? Did this just get lost or what?

I know audio is not that important to many people, however I do enjoy the audio side almost as much as the picture side of a movie. I remember when Dolby Pro Logic came out and how that changed the way we listened to movies, then Dolby Digital and most recently Dolby Digital EX. Even regular DVD's support DD and the player has no problem sending this signal out over optical or coaxial.

Please, someone tell me that this isn't true, that it's a firmware issue or something.

Kemical

ebr

04-19-06, 11:31 PM

...
First the issue of 1080p output, read this http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html

...

As an owner of a 1080p display device I say that article is complete bunk and written by someone who has never actually seen a 1080p projector.

Now, to the point of "no 1080p output" if you have a decent 1080p display device (or scaler) that can properly de-interlace, you will get true 1080p from a 1080i signal.

Robert D

04-19-06, 11:31 PM

I think you found a few things you didn't like them bringing up. You could argue relevance, but not a single thing you mentioned is factually in error. :rolleyes:

b2b

Sure I could come up with ten pages of things the player doesn't do and they would all be facts. The reviewer is obviously biased.

jstevenson

04-19-06, 11:44 PM

I have a question: is it worth it to upgrade to HD DVD considering my tv is a Sony 30XS955? Will I see much detail improvement? Thanks for replies! :)

I've got a 34xs, they're essentially a reference level TV, and I think the improvement over SD-DVD is dramatic. Though with a screen that size, if you're sitting more than 8-10 feet away you may not see as much of a diff. If you're sitting 4-5 ft, definitely.

Well worth it.

dad1153

04-20-06, 12:12 AM

more pictures more pictures more pictuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuures !

Here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668631.

Robert George

04-20-06, 12:19 AM

1. The manual and the website both say that the player has a DD decoder, so as long as it's a track on the disc it should output via optical/coaxial.

The decoder built into the HD-A1 is for decoding DD+ because there are no receivers/processors in the consumer market that can decode DD+. Toshiba has elected to NOT implement a Dolby Digital encoder to reformat the DD+ data into Dolby Digital 5.1 at 640 kb/s that can be decoded by current DD decoders in receivers/processors. Instead, Toshiba is using a DTS encoder for digital output on the S/PDIF interface.

2. There have been several posts stating that if a disc has DD+ you should be able to get DD from it which would make sense for backwards compatability.

As stated above, it is possible to get reformatted Dolby Digital from the DD+ data, but that solution is not used in the HD-A1. Any statements made otherwise are misinformed.

3. If DD+ and any other super duper audio format was going to be part of HD-DVD then why would they only have a 6 channel analog out with no surroundback channel outs? Seriously, practically every receiver sold in the last year and a half has either 6.1 or 7.1 capability. What happened to Dolby Digital EX? Did this just get lost or what?

This obsession by some with 6.1/7.1 audio only indicates the level of ignorance about multichannel audio in the film business. Discrete 6.1 soundtracks are a product of home video, not of commercial cinema sound. Even then, there are only a bare handful of soundtracks that have been remixed for discrete back surround channel audio. One more time, film sound is 5.1. 6.1 and 7.1 are almost always the product of post processing (in the receiver/processor). This DSP overlay can and is implemented now.

Dolby Digital EX is alive and well and living in the film soundtracks that have been mixed for that format. Dolby EX can be applied to both the multichannel PCM audio from the HDMI interface of HD-DVD or the DTS 5.1 output from the S/PDIF output. The same is true of Dolby PLIIx, which "creates" 7.1 output using DSP. I'm using that right now.

Just because a certain capability has been built into a format does not mean there is an immediate use for it. Discrete 6.1 and 7.1 will happen at some point when some studio wants to spend the money to remix a soundtrack and have it authored and encoded for 6.1/7.1 discrete. Someday.

Roger Dressler

04-20-06, 12:37 AM

>> There have been several posts stating that if a disc has DD+ you should be able to get DD from it which would make sense for backwards compatability. <<

>As stated above, it is possible to get reformatted Dolby Digital from the DD+ data, but that solution is not used in the HD-A1. Any statements made otherwise are misinformed.<

You are both right, but I think I can clarify a little. Yes, a DD+ stream can theoretically be converted to a DD stream inside the DD+ decoder chip, without need for a separate DD encoder. And indeed the Toshiba player can do this, but only of the disc is not Advanced content. That is what causes the decoding to be done only inside the player, regardless of which codec is used on the disc.

FilmMixer

04-20-06, 12:38 AM

This obsession by some with 6.1/7.1 audio only indicates the level of ignorance about multichannel audio in the film business. Discrete 6.1 soundtracks are a product of home video, not of commercial cinema sound. Even then, there are only a bare handful of soundtracks that have been remixed for discrete back surround channel audio. One more time, film sound is 5.1. 6.1 and 7.1 are almost always the product of post processing (in the receiver/processor). This DSP overlay can and is implemented now.

Dolby Digital EX is alive and well and living in the film soundtracks that have been mixed for that format. Dolby EX can be applied to both the multichannel PCM audio from the HDMI interface of HD-DVD or the DTS 5.1 output from the S/PDIF output. The same is true of Dolby PLIIx, which "creates" 7.1 output using DSP. I'm using that right now.

Just because a certain capability has been built into a format does not mean there is an immediate use for it. Discrete 6.1 and 7.1 will happen at some point when some studio wants to spend the money to remix a soundtrack and have it authored and encoded for 6.1/7.1 discrete. Someday.

I've beem trying to say this as well as you just have for a long time.. nicely written, and well said... And fyi, when we mix in EX, we do print discrete 6.1 channel stems, and the matrixing happens at printmaster... so we have the ability to make discrete HT versions of our tracks.... Unfortunately, it is rare that we are asked for these element, and of the over 70 films I have mixed, only one has been EX... Maybe it's time for another one :)

rbcole

04-20-06, 12:46 AM

So the general concensous I am getting is that if you already have an upscaling DVD player and DO NOT have a 1080p display that the improvement is not that dramitic.

I think I'm going to save my money at this time and wait until I can afford a 1080p projector. :cool:

kemical_head

04-20-06, 12:46 AM

Robert George

04-20-06, 12:54 AM

So the general concensous I am getting is that if you already have an upscaling DVD player and DO NOT have a 1080p display that the improvement is not that dramitic.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I am using a 720X1280 display at 92" diagonal and the improvwement shown from HD-DVD at 1080i over SD DVD at upscaled 1080i or 720p is quite dramatic to my eye.

Robert D

04-20-06, 12:59 AM

Thank you Robert and Roger for the explanation. It basically looks like I will not get the sound quality or rather format, that I get off of regular SD DVD's at least with this player, which is a shame. Anyway, thanks again for the information.

Kemical

Seems to me the audio is up to the studios, if they want to put 5.1 DD on the disc then you could have your 5.1 DD to your receiver. I really don't get it why are people upset that Toshiba chose to re-encode the audio and output DTS. I mean if it sounds good whats all the fuss about (unless you happen to own a receiver from 1999)?

darinp2

04-20-06, 01:00 AM

Who knows... All of the discs are DL 30GB so maybe it was quicker/easier to crank up the bit rate rather than having to go back and re-encode hard sections by hand.That is probably what I would do. When time matters I don't see much reason to spend time trying to make something smaller than the space allotted for it.

I kept finding myself expecting macroblocking or "noise" - seeing as I'm used it from D* or OTA - but even though I looked for it, I never saw it.This is the biggest improvement I expected to get with these new formats and something that I think is underappreciated. Just like DVDs, D-Theater, and other prerecorded material that people can buy, there is an incentive to go back and clean up problem areas. With OTA, satellite, etc., blocking and things just happen and then things move on. If comparing easy scenes I don't expect these new disks to have huge differences from HD we get piped into our homes. It is the difficult scenes that really make these stand out (or at least not stand out in bad ways like some others) IMO. Just like D-Theater, where I don't remember ever seeing blocking.

With the release of "The Chronicles of Riddick" coming up a lot of it will probably look similar to the HBO version (although that was 16x9), but in scenes like landing on the hot planet with the prison where Riddick and other things broke up into ugly blocks, the HD-DVD version should look clean through there.

Anybody else tempted to get one of the Pioneer receivers with HDMI inputs like these:

http://www.epinions.com/Pioneer_Elite_VSX_74TXVi_THX_Select_2_A_V_Receiver_System/skp_~1/linkin_id_~/sp_~/search_vertical_~all?search_string=vsx-74txvi

http://www.epinions.com/search/?submitted_form=searchbar&search_string=VSX-72TXV&tax_name=Receivers&dyn_nav=0&dyn_nav_id=&search_vertical=t124878&searchbar_submit=Search

--Darin

sspears

04-20-06, 01:07 AM

...(crystal clear on close ups, but unfocused on panned out shots)...

Well what was the DP thinking ?!? :)

c722

04-20-06, 01:12 AM

Yes, a DD+ stream can theoretically be converted to a DD stream inside the DD+ decoder chip, without need for a separate DD encoder. And indeed the Toshiba player can do this, but only of the disc is not Advanced content. That is what causes the decoding to be done only inside the player, regardless of which codec is used on the disc.

It's been reported an external video processor (DVDO VP30) is able to get a DD output from the A1 HDMI connection. Since there is no way the A1 is giving out a DD stream on current titles, how can the video processor provide a DD out ? Can it be the A1 provide a 5.1 PCM through HDMI and the VP30 encode it to DD ?

sspears

04-20-06, 01:16 AM

All of the discs are DL 30GB so maybe it was quicker/easier to crank up the bit rate rather than having to go back and re-encode hard sections by hand.

I am not sure quick or easy are words I would use to describe how much time has been put into the video compression. :) The compression engineers have worked long and hard to make the films look the best they can. Things will only get better.

Robert George

04-20-06, 01:22 AM

Darin,

I'm using the 74TXVi, though only as a pre/pro. A hefty 7-channel Sherbourn amp provides the power.

rbcole

04-20-06, 01:28 AM

I am not sure quick or easy are words I would use to describe how much time has been put into the video compression. :) The compression engineers have worked long and hard to make the films look the best they can. Things will only get better.
I agree. Just like when SD DVD was initially released people where not impressed enough to go out and by a player. I can only see the software for the HD DVD players getting better in the months/years to come.

Dozer42

04-20-06, 01:39 AM

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I am using a 720X1280 display at 92" diagonal and the improvwement shown from HD-DVD at 1080i over SD DVD at upscaled 1080i or 720p is quite dramatic to my eye.

Seconded. Massive improvement on my 720p display at 133" diag. (AE-700).

I just wish I had a 1080p display so that I could see 'all' of the increased resolution.

But don't go by what others say, what other people see with their eyes and their system maybe you won't be able to see.

Go buy a player from a place with a decent return policy, pick up Serenity or one of the other movies, and test it out for yourself. If you can't see the improvement, take the player back (and get your vision checked).

Even at 720p the difference was stunning.

Robert D

04-20-06, 01:41 AM

Chris Gerhard

04-20-06, 02:28 AM

I have a question: is it worth it to upgrade to HD DVD considering my tv is a Sony 30XS955? Will I see much detail improvement? Thanks for replies! :)

I have the KV-30XBR910 and can see a difference between 1080i HDTV and DVD but when the DVD is very good, the difference isn't worth much overall. In scenes with small details in the background, the difference is most noticeable but who watches movies to look at tiny details in the background? These are great 30" displays and do such a great job with DVD in my opinion that unless you sit very close to the screen, you might decide better than DVD just isn't necessary.

Chris

shamus

04-20-06, 02:33 AM

Dont you guys sleep?

TheLion

04-20-06, 02:36 AM

SSPEARS Please allow me to draw your attention to the following thread (discussing your stated audio specs)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668839

Thanks

OzHDHT

04-20-06, 02:52 AM

What is the potential for so-call 60Hz related judder with HD-DVD on 1080p displays like the Ruby. I am in the midst of an argument about it on a local forum:Forum Link (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=29099&view=findpost&p=389530) . I am maintaining that I definitely never saw any judder in the original bluray demo they rolled out with the Qualia004, which I took to be 1080i60 (unless they managed to master it at 1080/24psf, sure someone knows). I also seem to have read no reports here from other well known Ruby or Qualia owners about any issues with Judder in their impressions with the Toshiba.

Looking forward to plugging mine into my Ruby when it arrives, providing Crutchfield didn't miss shipping my pre-order via my friends in FL back on the Tues. Ironically, unlike some folks last weekend looks like I'll have the discs before the player since Amazon wasted no time in shipping them out Tues.:D

Capek

04-20-06, 02:56 AM

I think I already know the answer to this, but does this player play HD .ts files burned to a dvd?

Robert D

04-20-06, 03:01 AM

I think I already know the answer to this, but does this player play HD .ts files burned to a dvd?

I believe the answer is yes to DVD and yes to CD. Someone said they have already done just that. :)

Stan Rozenfeld

04-20-06, 03:45 AM

Has anyone played around with the enhanced black level setting?

On most other players, there is a difference in brightness level when you toggle it, but here I saw no difference, although I didn't do thorough tests. Still I set enhanced black level to "On", signifying 0 ire, because as I understand, that's the proper level for hdmi output.

Capek

04-20-06, 03:46 AM

I believe the answer is yes to DVD and yes to CD. Someone said they have already done just that. :)
WOW are you serious! I assumed it was too much to hope for. Now instead of going with a snazzio to play all the ts files I'm been accumulating, I can save up a little more and get this player. Yikes but now I have to spend the rest of the week wading through this thread to find the confirming first hand report. :eek:

Robert D

04-20-06, 03:51 AM

Capek

04-20-06, 03:56 AM

Robert D

04-20-06, 04:09 AM

Ya, using the search function it appears that the ts files must be reauthored using Ulead as a HD-DVD. Plain old ts files burned to dvdr lock the player up. Bummer. I'll have to look into Ulead. Here's the quote:

"No good. You have to author ts. as an HD DVD. But I am confident the player could play MPEG2 TS directly from a USB HDD in the near future."

I found the program and it's cheap plus they have a trial download here http://www.ulead.com/dmf/trial.htm

KBDVD

04-20-06, 04:32 AM

Hi Guy's,

Three quick questions relating to the HD-DVD discs and packaging.

1. I'm assuming the discs are single sided, duel layered but I've yet to see an image of an actual disc. Do they have full color artwork printed on the label side as has become the norm with DVD, or are we back to simply having the name of the film written on a silvered background as was the case with all early DVD's? Also, as it would appear that both HD-DVD's red cases and Blu-Ray's blue cases are translucent, have Warner or Universal used this opportunity to print any information on the rear of the cases paper insert so that it is visible when the case is opened or is the reverse of the paper insert just plain white? :rolleyes:

2. How are the discs retained in the packaging? ... Do they use a push-down central nub as in the "Amaray" style DVD packaging or some new form of locking mechanism? .... I'm particularly interested due to the fact that I live in the UK and will be importing HD-DVD discs. As such, I'm hoping that I will not have to endure so many HD-DVD's coming loose and subsequently incurring surface scuffing "in-transit". :mad:

3. Do you guy's think that any of the seemingly random instances of playback "hang-up's" "lock-up's" "pauses" or "drop-out's" that have been reported throughout this thread, could possibly be attributable to scuffs, scratches or fingerprints etc on the discs surface? ..... Has anyone that has experienced problems subsequently taken a look at the condition of their disc? Also, have all of your discs been received in "pristine" condition out of the box? .... I know from personal experience that DVD's are usualy just fine out of the box BUT every now and again it's possible to receive a sub-standard disc that has experienced physical trauma at the pressing plant. I'm just thinking "out-loud" and pondering the possibility that one of the possible negative implications of having the data on these discs contained in significantly smaller pits, could be less tolerance of surface defects on the disc than DVD. (I know for a fact that at one time during their development it was looking as though Blu-Ray discs at least would require a caddy!) :(

And a further Hardware question prompted by my ramblings above:

1. Does anyone know anything about the expected "Error Correction" performance of the Toshiba players? ie: How can it be "expected" to react when experiencing difficulty in reading portions of a HD-DVD disc? :confused:

Any photo's or links to pictures of the disc's themselves and the inside of the packaging would be greatly appreciated! :)

Thanks in advance for any information.

ps: Have you guy's seen the excellent "VIDEO" :eek: sample of Warner's overlaying menu system in action on TLS on the Toshiba XA1/A1 posted by member Jeff Williams (Thanks Jeff!) in post #26 on this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668494 ........... This sure looks SWEET in operation & the audible button clicks are a very nice touch!

That XA1 sure looks SWEET too!!!! :cool:

Keith.

westa6969

04-20-06, 04:53 AM

These are great 30" displays and do such a great job with DVD in my opinion that unless you sit very close to the screen, you might decide better than DVD just isn't necessary.

Chris
Agreed - Not much advantage to be seen on a 30" TV as that's way short of being considered a HT panel. :)

theroys88

04-20-06, 06:57 AM

mfabien

04-20-06, 07:10 AM

Wondering how long till Panasonic and Oppo will have these HD-DVD drives incorportated into
their machines. Best scenario would be a HD player with the upconverting abilities of a OPPO or Panasonic. Toshiba has never been close to these two.

... until now! Have you not read about it in this Forum?

jstevenson

04-20-06, 07:27 AM

Agreed - Not much advantage to be seen on a 30" TV as that's way short of being considered a HT panel. :)

I'll still maintain that it depends on how close you sit. The Sony units with super-fine pitch tubes are excellent and if you're close enough, you'll see that extra detail. I did A-B comparisons on my ISF-calibrated 34" and there was a clear difference.

aaronwt

04-20-06, 07:38 AM

It's been reported an external video processor (DVDO VP30) is able to get a DD output from the A1 HDMI connection. Since there is no way the A1 is giving out a DD stream on current titles, how can the video processor provide a DD out ? Can it be the A1 provide a 5.1 PCM through HDMI and the VP30 encode it to DD ?

The VP30 cannot encode to DD.

I'm still wondering why I am able to get DD from the DD+ stream when I go through my VP30. When I have the A1 HDMI setting to auto, my receiver gets DD and I don't have any menu sounds. When I set the A1 HDMI to bitstream, then I get DTS with the menu sounds encoded with it.
I am using the HDMI out of the A1 to my VP30 then I am using the optical out of the VP30 to my receiver. I'm using the first version of the VP30 firmware, and I seem to be the only one capable of doing this. There must be something that is causing this, but I am not complaining since it sounds very good and I also don't have the volume level problems with TLS and POTO.

Art Sonneborn

04-20-06, 07:58 AM

brian12773

04-20-06, 07:59 AM

mfabien

04-20-06, 08:08 AM

It works

Suspect you have a DVI-D which is HDCP compliant. PLASMATU was asking about a non HDCP DVI (such as DVI-I)... seriously doubt that will work because there's no possible HDCP handshake.

b2bonez

04-20-06, 08:26 AM

I am not sure quick or easy are words I would use to describe how much time has been put into the video compression. :) The compression engineers have worked long and hard to make the films look the best they can. Things will only get better.

No disrespect intended. :) I can only guess that each title production has been its own unique "death march". ;)

b2b

Ktulu_1

04-20-06, 08:36 AM

I received a HD-A1 yesterday and since I don't have any HD-DVD media I put it through it's paces with SD-DVD.

DVD+R and DVD+R DL

Both discs played fine for me.

HQV DVD Benchmark V1.4

Manu Sony Panny Toshiba
Player DVPNS75H DVDS77S HD-A1
Connect HDMI HDMI HDMI
Res 720p 720p All Res

Color/Vert 5 10 10
Jaggies 1 3 5 3
Jaggies 2 3 3 1
Flag 5 10 5
Picture Detl 10 10 10
Noise Red NA NA NA
MA Noise Red NA NA NA
Film Detail 0 5 5

2:2 0 0 5
2:2:2:4 0 0 5
2:3:3:2 0 0 0
3:2:3:2:2 0 0 0
5:5 0 0 0
6:4 0 0 0
8:7 0 0 0
3:2 0 5 5
Mixed 3:2 H 10 10 0
Mixed 3:2 V 10 10 10

Total 46 68 59

I included my test results for a recently released inexpensive ($130) Sony player and the Fouradja based Panasonic for comparison. NR was not tested as all the players do not support noise reduction.

I tested the HD-A1 at all 3 resolutions. The scores remained the same at 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

I found the HD-A1 scores for SD-DVD deinterlacing interesting. It passed some tests that most inexpensive players miss and it failed a test that all players seem to pass.

The color bar test at "marker 1" was crisp and cleanly displayed without flicker. All the jaggies tests including the flag test were pretty lackluster when compared to the Panasonic. No player under $200 that I've tested has ever passed the 3:2 Detection (Film Detail) test. This player locks on 3:2 pretty quickly. In the cadence tests the player passes the 2:2:2:4 test only when going from a lock on the 2:2 cadence. Moving backward through the tests it fails 2:2:2:4 when going from 2:3:3:2. Interestingly, this is the first player I've seen fail the horizontal scrolling text test.

Macroblocking

Fouradja based players have been know for enhancing macroblocking inherent in some SD-DVDs. I watched The Martix chapter 29 (lobby scene) on the Toshiba and it does not enhance macroblocking.

Conclusions

I like this player. The few things I watched briefly looked and sounded good. As far as deinterlacing goes it does a fair job. It might not be up to par with upper end players like the Pioneer 79avi or the high end Denons but it certainly isn't at the bottom either. I haven't been able to test the high end player nor have I seen other's results. Since HD-DVD is this players main gig I consider it a bonus that it is also a decent SD-DVD player. All this and it's under $500. I hope the HD-DVD part of this player lives up to expectations.

zrdb

04-20-06, 08:39 AM

WOW are you serious! I assumed it was too much to hope for. Now instead of going with a snazzio to play all the ts files I'm been accumulating, I can save up a little more and get this player. Yikes but now I have to spend the rest of the week wading through this thread to find the confirming first hand report. :eek: I previously mentioned that I had burned some h.264 downloads to a dvd+rw and taken them down to the local BB and popped it into the Tosh display unit and it refused to play it. I had been hoping that it would as it would give me an option to watch h.264 on something besides my computer. Guess myself and countless other anime fans will just have to wait for a stand alone unit such as the supposed to come out who knows when KISS 700. That's the only reason that I would have purchased this unit-not because it can play HDDVDs.

brian12773

04-20-06, 08:45 AM

Iamjcl

04-20-06, 09:30 AM

I am still having major issues with HDMI out to my Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby) PJ.

Using HDMI out, at 1080i, with HDMI "enabled" on the A1, I can get the internally generated menus just fine, and can play SD DVDs just fine.

Put in a HD-DVD (Serenity), and after the player does its painfully long, clunky, spin-up, I get "HDMI ERROR 1".

I also tried HDMI out to a HDMI-DVI adapter, going into the PJ via DVI - same issue.

Component 1080i works, of course, but won't scale SD discs.

Tried the POS HDMI cable that came with the A1, just to see - no dice.

Some are having this combination (A1 --> Sony Ruby) work fine, it seems, via HDMI. I don't know what else to try, and I don't really want to buy some other "box" in another attempt to make this thing work.

If you have A Ruby / A1 setup, please post your HDMI audio settings, etc... for the A1, and any settings on the Ruby that may relate to HDMI success. To my knowledge there are no "settings" on the Ruby that would matter.

I suppose I could swap the A1 for another, but since everything else works, I would bet another one would do the same thing.

Anybody have any HDMI solutions ?

- Chris

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 09:42 AM

Iamjcl

04-20-06, 09:52 AM

Dave Vaughn

04-20-06, 10:07 AM

I am using HDMI and haven't had an issue using a HDMI to DVI cable into a lumagen scaler. Then a DVI adapter to 10M Accell UltraRun HDMI cable to my Mits 3000U projector.

Dave

diggumsmax

04-20-06, 10:09 AM

I've just got one quick question. I'm sure it might have already been answered but this forum is growing so fast its hard to keep up with. What is the best way to hook of the HD-A1 for sound. Is it through toslink or the 5.1 channel analog. It seems like a lot of people have conflicting opinions. Will the HD-A1 output DTS-HD through both or only one(not at the same time)? I have ordered one and it should be coming in today and I just wanted to know the best way to hook it up. I will be hooking it up to a Rotel RSP-1068.

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 10:13 AM

Mark Zimmer

04-20-06, 10:19 AM

sfhub

04-20-06, 10:19 AM

Aaron,

Thanks for the info.

I did check Monprice (I've ordered cables from them before), but they say only "pre-order - ETA 4/26/2006" for the HDMI switching units - guess others got them elsewhere.

They are constantly getting new stock and selling out quickly. Lots of time if the ETA data changes, it is because the most recent shipment is accounted for. I suggest you call them or email them and ask when they estimate an order placed today will arrive. They are very prompt and courteous.

John Ballentine

04-20-06, 10:21 AM

Has anyone checked to see how well the HD-A1 handles layer changes on SD discs??? Or should I keep my DENON 2900 for SD discs as it is perfect in this regard??? (I seem to be the only one bothered by SD layer changes)

tarmack

04-20-06, 10:21 AM

I rec'd my notice of shipping from Robert on Monday....FedEx just dropped the box off.........after I chased him on my motor scooter. grin.

Seems that Value Electronics didn't enter my address correctly....they left the 8 out of 826 and the FedEx Ground truck just motored right on by. I had been watching the FedEx web site for delivery and knew he was due.....so I hopped on the nearest vehicle and gave chase.......sure enough....he had my box inside...but was going to take it back to central to get a more correct address.

Hook up and install went well AFTER I found where the SETUP button is...hidden under a sliding door on the remote......and after I used that same remote....THAT IS HORRIBLE FOR DESIGN AND VISIBILITY....to select HDMI for output.

I am playing a SD DVD now....Willy Nelson and Merle Haggard....as UPS will not be delivering my first real HD DVD until this afternoon....The Last Samuri" purchased from Amazon yesterday.

Box is big....is slow....and I hate the remote........but it does do a darn good job with the current DVD in use and I await the real test later when the HD DVD gets here.

Tarmack

Gideon

04-20-06, 10:23 AM

Has anyone compare the same The Samurai HD over the HD-DVD player to the HTPC with ffdshow, dscaler mpeg with a SD DVD? How much difference in the perception of picture resolution in terms of sharpness, colour fidelity, contrast etc? Thanks.

JayF

04-20-06, 10:36 AM

I saw a reference earlier in this thread to a Toshiba Model that Walmart will carry called the HD-D1 I believe. Price is the same but the front panel is different and it is all black. Does anyone know if this is essentially the same unit manufactured at the same plant as the A1?

heavyharmonies

04-20-06, 10:43 AM

Seems the cost of the A1 just went from $500 to $650 if you want reliable HDMI.

Please don't generalize. The cost may have gone up FOR YOU or FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT CONFIGURATION, but not for everyone...

A better way to have worded it would have been "Seems the cost of the A1 just went from $500 to $650 for me to get reliable HDMI."

There are a lot of people simply scanning this thread as opposed to actually reading it, and generalizations often give incorrect impressions.

(sorry, pet peeve ;))

schticker

04-20-06, 10:46 AM

I've had some problems with DVD+R and DVD+RW, as well. I can't get it to read a Verbatim DVD+RW at all, and while it eventually recognized and played a Maxell DVD+R, the first attempt gave the "NOPLAY" error display. Both discs contained self-authored DVD content that played fine in other players around the house.

Try -R. Seems to play on most anything. My ancient H1000 Panny plays them without a hiccup.

sfhub

04-20-06, 10:46 AM

I have the KV-30XBR910 and can see a difference between 1080i HDTV and DVD but when the DVD is very good, the difference isn't worth much overall. In scenes with small details in the background, the difference is most noticeable but who watches movies to look at tiny details in the background? These are great 30" displays and do such a great job with DVD in my opinion that unless you sit very close to the screen, you might decide better than DVD just isn't necessary.
Another way to look at it is if you shrink the picture enough or sit far enough away, it will be impossible to notice the extra detail because they will either appear too small for your eye to detect, or they will go away when your display downscales. All you are left with are the color differences and less motion artifacts, but even at the small sizes, even the motion artifacts weren't that noticeable, so you are left with color.

alan_ct

04-20-06, 10:49 AM

Has anyone compared it to D-Theater???

sfhub

04-20-06, 10:50 AM

Wondering how long till Panasonic and Oppo will have these HD-DVD drives incorportated into
their machines. Best scenario would be a HD player with the upconverting abilities of a OPPO or Panasonic. Toshiba has never been close to these two.
IMO the Toshiba HD-A1 does just as good or better with upconverting.

I'm comparing to Panny S77 and Oppo.

PLASMATU

04-20-06, 10:53 AM

It works on my DVI - HDCP compliant set.

yeah but what bout a TV or monitor not HDCP complaint m really not goinjg to use the component one for it ! I may use it for console but not for Ps3 Blue Ray or Hd-dvd player ! Damn really hope those magi boxes ll come out floodin the marked with even multi dvi-d in and hdmi out + hdcp bypassing !
Damn there are so many with non hdcp complaint plasma thats criminal how they tought it I have spent 2000€ on this !

Anyway at the end so Anybody can try it on a DVI non hdcp one an see what happens ? (with a dvi to hdmi cable)

PLASMATU

04-20-06, 11:00 AM

Suspect you have a DVI-D which is HDCP compliant. PLASMATU was asking about a non HDCP DVI (such as DVI-I)... seriously doubt that will work because there's no possible HDCP handshake.
True I have an Hitachi 42PMA500E Plasma and m not going to change it, has vga/2 component/ and DVI-D and its not Hdcp complaint and m not gonna change it now ! Damn i will maybe with SED panels, when they' ll come affordable, now this is more then enuff ! New tests on these new players on how they behaves with non hdcp complaint monitors would be very interesting to me, and many more, I Guess.The guy using that Dell lcd monitor, is it hdcp complaint ?
Damn even have a recently bought 19" Samsung 930bf wonder if this is hdcp complaint,usually if they dont add it to the specs....for watchin movies it sucks anyway but has dvi-d and vga in...We need some PRO testings to find out real issues ! Finally I hope that hdcp ll end like region lock ! Coz its just crazy/fool, I know quite many that have plasma non hdcp compatible !(and even spent more then 2000€)

Josh Z

04-20-06, 11:12 AM

II found the HD-A1 scores for SD-DVD deinterlacing interesting. It passed some tests that most inexpensive players miss and it failed a test that all players seem to pass.

The problem I have with this player and the HQV Benchmark DVD is that the player assumes the whole disc is 4:3 and squeezes the 16:9 test patterns into pillarbox. I could not find any way to adjust that. Since I'm not sure what scaling method the A1 uses to pillarbox 4:3, I'm not entirely confident that its Benchmark scores are accurate.

I agree with your observation that the player seems to pass some hard tests and fail easy ones. I was very surprised to find the waving flag looked pretty solid.

PLASMATU

04-20-06, 11:21 AM

I am using HDMI and haven't had an issue using a HDMI to DVI cable into a lumagen scaler. Then a DVI adapter to 10M Accell UltraRun HDMI cable to my Mits 3000U projector.

Dave

is that lumagen scaler hdcp ? can u try usin it on a non hdcp dvi-d monitor/telly or just a non hdcp lcd ?

ebr

04-20-06, 11:42 AM

Iamjcl

04-20-06, 12:12 PM

My A1/Ruby combo has none of these issues. I just hooked it up and it worked. I suspect a problem with either your A1 or Ruby HDMI connections. Do you have any other HDMI components you can hook to the Ruby and see if they work?

I'm glad yours works. My Oppo via HDMI has no issues. Out of curiosity, what is the SN# range of your Ruby, and what is the FW version / SN range of your A1 ?

Originally Posted by Iamjcl:

"Seems the cost of the A1 just went from $500 to $650 if you want reliable HDMI."

heavyharmonies replies:

"Please don't generalize. The cost may have gone up FOR YOU or FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT CONFIGURATION, but not for everyone...

A better way to have worded it would have been "Seems the cost of the A1 just went from $500 to $650 for me to get reliable HDMI."

There are a lot of people simply scanning this thread as opposed to actually reading it, and generalizations often give incorrect impressions."

---

Well I suppose I could have worded it that way, or I could have elaborated quite a bit on more the other issues one may well run into with this unit. I believe its not just me and my equipment that are having HDMI issues. I think those reading this thread knew what I was saying, but I could of course be wrong.

- Chris

highvista

04-20-06, 12:33 PM

Ya, using the search function it appears that the ts files must be reauthored using Ulead as a HD-DVD. Plain old ts files burned to dvdr lock the player up. Bummer. I'll have to look into Ulead. Here's the quote:

"No good. You have to author ts. as an HD DVD. But I am confident the player could play MPEG2 .ts directly from a USB HDD in the near future."I can confirm that .ts files can't be played directly. I was really hoping it would work, since hooking up cables to stream them from my laptop to my DVHS deck for playback is a pain. The first player out that does either HD-DVD or BD and .ts files is going to have my checkbook whipped out in a hurry.

Ktulu_1

04-20-06, 12:33 PM

The problem I have with this player and the HQV Benchmark DVD is that the player assumes the whole disc is 4:3 and squeezes the 16:9 test patterns into pillarbox. I could not find any way to adjust that. Since I'm not sure what scaling method the A1 uses to pillarbox 4:3, I'm not entirely confident that its Benchmark scores are accurate.

I agree with your observation that the player seems to pass some hard tests and fail easy ones. I was very surprised to find the waving flag looked pretty solid.

If I had to guess, I would think this is because it's a non-anamorphic disc. Maybe an issue for a firmware update. If I run the player at 480p, the HQV disc fills the screen and the score remained the same. Perhaps the tests at 720p and 1080i are inaccurate but most of the tests on the disc are tests of deinterlacing and not scaling.

blambert

04-20-06, 12:33 PM

iI just got back from BB, and they were running a demo disc on the A1 with HDMI. Was that a true HD-DVD? It didnt look any better than an upconverted DVD. The salesmen said it was, but I know better than to listen to a BB employee. He would not put in a movie disc to show us.

It was hooked up to a 720p lcd flat panel, and we played with the settings a little. The picture was much sharper in 1080i mode, but looked dusty overall. The 720 mode was smooth, but not as sharp. The 480p mode looked terrible.

sfhub

04-20-06, 12:41 PM

It was hooked up to a 720p lcd flat panel, and we played with the settings a little. The picture was much sharper in 1080i mode, but looked dusty overall. The 720 mode was smooth, but not as sharp. The 480p mode looked terrible.
Downscaling to 720p is basically broken in my opinion. The only output format you want to use for these movie releases is 1080i otherwise you will get the wrong impression.

darinp2

04-20-06, 01:06 PM

Don't The Ruby and Qualia accept 1080p 24sf. ? Can't they both display this at 48Hz ? This is the judder eliminator. :) The strange thing is that for digital inputs the Qualia takes 1080p24sf and not 1080p48, while the Ruby takes 1080p48 and not 1080p24sf.
I did check Monoprice (I've ordered cables from them before), but they say only "pre-order - ETA 4/26/2006" for the HDMI switching units - guess others got them elsewhere.Some of us got them from an initial batch and it looks like those sold out. They also have a 2x1 switch that I believe is under $100. Not sure about your configuration, but for HD-DVDs you could go component. The HDMI actually crushes the below blacks and the component output doesn't. Not sure about things above reference white from HD-DVDs yet.

--Darin

adriankelly

04-20-06, 01:44 PM

heavyharmonies

04-20-06, 02:06 PM

jstevenson

04-20-06, 03:06 PM

Alot of the demos at BB are not real HD-DVD players , after a bit of coaxing I had the BB guy tell me it was just a demo model . So when viewing these be sure to ask if it is the real deal machine and also ask if they calibrated the set , check the resolution settings , and ask to demo the machine on a set like you have at home or atleast the same brand or type similar specs to yours . My local BB guys have gone out of their way in the past for me .

Uhh, no. The players are real. The stores may not have the actual HD-DVD demo disc. Those were shipped in a different method with a merch kit. Even then, if they're hooked up to the vendor-paid Westinghouse 42", don't expect the picture to look as good as say a 60XBR or such.

Of course, with 700 stores, YMMV.

sspears

04-20-06, 03:08 PM

I just received a 2nd A1 today. The first was purchased at Best Buy while this came from Value Electronics.

The down button on the remote works fine with this new unit. When I press down there is only a single click. The one from Best Buy has a double click.

Robert D

04-20-06, 03:09 PM

sspears

04-20-06, 03:13 PM

Two players?

Yes. I had placed my original order with VE. On Friday night I saw the posts about BB selling them so I picked up one Saturday morning. (impulse buy). I am going to give the 2nd player to a friend.

George Montemayor

04-20-06, 03:14 PM

Two players?
Maybe the movie will load quicker in an SLI configuration. ;)

Robert D

04-20-06, 03:21 PM

Maybe the movie will load quicker in an SLI configuration. ;)

Or connect the two players is series and get 2160i out. :) Darn he has two players and I don't have one yet, it's just not fair.

inaka

04-20-06, 03:25 PM

DaViD Boulet

04-20-06, 03:26 PM

Well...if early adoptors can so easily afford to buy 2 HD DVD players and give them away...clearly they won't have any problem affording the $1000 Blu-ray players...

:D

Robert D

04-20-06, 03:30 PM

Sorry, this thread is moving too fast and I can't seem to find the exact answer to this:

The player needs to be set MANUALLY to either 720p or 1080i based on the movie's specs? There's no way for the player to automatically set this to the optimal outut setting if desired? Please confirm, thanks.

If you have a 720p display set the Toshiba to output 1080i. I believe that most will agree that 720p output from the player is borked and for now using the 1080i out and letting your display do the downrez is the better solution.

inaka

04-20-06, 03:31 PM

Double-post

FilmMixer

04-20-06, 03:40 PM

housecor

04-20-06, 03:46 PM

The downscaling in the Toshiba is so bad, I think it is more than a poor scaler. I think it is just plain broken.

If Toshiba doesn't fix it in firmware, they might as well just disable 480p and 720p output. They are worthless outputs for this player.

Every HD display accepts 1080i and anyone who would prefer to use 720p will be so disappointed with the results, they will give up and use 1080i. Thus 720p, as currently implemented is not necessary.

The 720p output is necessary for 720p discs - You can expect TV shows broadcast in 720p to be released on HD-DVD in 720p. For owners of 720p sets viewing 720p material, setting the A1 to output 720p should produce superior results.

Remember, Toshiba recommends matching the output resolution to that of the disc. Everyone is thinking only the 1080i output is useful simply because we have no 720p discs out there yet.

73ChargerFan

04-20-06, 03:50 PM

Seems everyone is sold out, and the player I ordered from HIDEF Lifestyle won't get to me until the middle of May. Meanwhile my copies of POTP and Serenity are sitting at home collecting dust. :(

inaka

04-20-06, 03:52 PM

Remember, Toshiba recommends matching the output resolution to that of the disc. Every is thinking only the 1080i output is useful simply because we have no 720p discs out there yet.
That's what I'm worried about. When 720p discs are available, the manual is telling people to MANUALLY set this according to each disc's specs. If this really is necessary, and the player can't do it automatically, this is a major faux pas.

sspears

04-20-06, 03:59 PM

You can expect TV shows broadcast in 720p to be released on HD-DVD in 720p.

Actually the 720p shows come from 1080p tapes. I am not sure where the reformatting occurs. I think the 720p content you see will be true 60p and not film with a telecine pattern.

I was wondering if you could clear up the specs you posted about the audio...

I know that some of the early audio encodes were using 24-bit masters but when done in TrueHD they were resulting in higher than desired peak rates. (Even higher in DTS-HD lossless) Obviously if you are going with a lossy codec then you can go back to 24-bit since it is a fixed rate.

home_theatre_man

04-20-06, 04:35 PM

Stacey... I was wondering if you could clear up the specs you posted about the audio... you said they were 16 bit, which makes absolutely no sense to me.. all film masters for last 6 years, at least, have been at 24/48.. and since TLS and Serenity are lossy codecs, the data rate really doesn't have too much to do with word size... DD and DTS are both scalable formats and have been 24 bit, so I am confused....

Stacey, I would be interested to know how you acquired the information you originally posted about the initial-release HD DVDs' data rates, resolutions, etc. Do you have equipment to measure those things, or did you get the numbers from an industry contact?

Chase

FilmMixer

04-20-06, 04:35 PM

I know that some of the early audio encodes were using 24-bit masters but when done in TrueHD they were resulting in higher than desired peak rates. (Even higher in DTS-HD lossless) Obviously if you are going with a lossy codec then you can go back to 24-bit since it is a fixed rate.

Well if that's the case, then whats the point of having a lossless codec since you are chopping off bits from the master to get there.. a rhetorical comment BTW :) That asanine that we have a great new codec that's being crippled like that on these titles...

We are so close, yet so far away...

In regards to the DD+ tracks, were they 16 or 24 bit?

housecor

04-20-06, 04:39 PM

That's what I'm worried about. When 720p discs are available, the manual is telling people to MANUALLY set this according to each disc's specs. If this really is necessary, and the player can't do it automatically, this is a major faux pas.

Problem is, if future players output the native res automatically, the few people who have sets that won't accept 720p natively (my old Panasonic pdp comes to mind) will experience a black screen on 720p discs.

To solve this, I suppose the best solution would be a menu defeatable "pass through" option like we see on DVR's today.

jdawg131

04-20-06, 04:42 PM

I just received my HDA1 from onecall.com this morning and have been playing around with it since I got home from work. I'd have to say that I've been pretty impressed so far. Here is my current set up:

Sony 34" XBR960 tv; HDMI from the HDA1 => Denon 3806; HDMI from the Denon 3806 => TV

Pros:
-The little bit of TLS and Serenity that I watched looked incredible.
-The audio sounded slightly improved to my ears.
-Upconverted SD DVD looked very sharp; no macroblocking. I upgraded from the Panasonic S77 and I would say that the two players are pretty equal in PQ, with the advantage going to the Toshiba due to no macroblocking.

Cons:
-The player is pretty clunky in regard to HD DVD.
-Remote is average; no where near as bad as many have made it out to be (I heard the same thing about the Denon 3806 remote too).
-Only 3 titles available (this will change with time).

In my opinion the pros far out way the cons. The PQ on the HD DVDs were incredible and the upconverted SD DVD PQ is on par with my Panasonic S77. I have no complaints and think that this was a great way to spend $500.

trgraphics

04-20-06, 04:43 PM

Since these are basically a computer. Can we overclock this baby!:) Or put in a more powerful cpu.

inaka

04-20-06, 04:43 PM

Problem is, if future players output the native res automatically, the few people who have sets that won't accept 720p natively (my old Panasonic pdp comes to mind) will experience a black screen on 720p discs.

To solve this, I suppose the best solution would be a menu defeatable "pass through" option like we see on DVR's today.
Exactly. It just seems like they would need the default setting to require a manual resolution change by the user, but they could definitely use a native passthrough option. Honestly, that seems like a deal breaker to me for this player. The last thing I want to do is to have to know exactly what resolution format each and every disc is before playing it.

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 04:51 PM

Exactly. It just seems like they would need the default setting to require a manual resolution change by the user, but they could definitely use a native passthrough option. Honestly, that seems like a deal breaker to me for this player. The last thing I want to do is to have to know exactly what resolution format each and every disc is before playing it.

I dont expect alot of 720p releases to be honest. So 1080 is a set it and forget it kind of thing.

mrsmith

04-20-06, 04:59 PM

Some off-topic comments deleted. Please find, or start, another thread to discuss Blu-Ray, software release schedules, new products, or anything not having to do with direct reports from users of the HD-A1 (or discussion related to those reports or observations).

[EDIT] More off topic comments deleted. Please do not re-post comments that were deleted.

Let's try to keep this sticky on topic.
Okay, to be precise, how about this morning's
Los Angeles Times
tech review of Toshiba's new player:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-technopolis20apr20,1,2768791.column?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true

Don't know about anyone else, but this report
really mirrors almost precisely what I've been
seeing since last weekend.

If anyone for some reason cannot access this
link, send me an e-mail and I'll see you
get a copy by alternate means.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Larry Sutliff

04-20-06, 05:08 PM

Any opinions on whether the enhanced black level should be used or not? I'm not using it, and the picture looks fine to me, but I've read that it should be used with HDMI/DVI.

Larry Sutliff

04-20-06, 05:10 PM

I'm sure we've all seen the LA Times review, no need to post the link twice.

Robert D

04-20-06, 05:17 PM

"This, coupled with LG's confirmation to Reuters that
they'll be offering a multi-format(STD DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray)
player this Fall, makes the Toshiba, to me at least, a
questionable purchase. But, I'm glad to see that
you are delighted with it, and hope it does not
ultimately become a superfluous buy."

Could it be that some of us don't want to wait six months to enjoy HD-DVD hmm?

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 05:18 PM

CPanther95

04-20-06, 05:19 PM

The LA Times review is pretty consistent with what we've seen reported here when pairing up an HD-DVD player with a small screen - which is similar to the benefit of any HDTV on a small screen unless sitting much closer than the norm.

mrsmith

04-20-06, 05:19 PM

I'm sure we've all seen the LA Times review, no need to post the link twice.
Apparently others have NOT seen it, judging
by several private e-mails I've received
already.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

jorgerod

04-20-06, 05:21 PM

CPanther95

04-20-06, 05:25 PM

Duplicate posts deleted (let 2 go, but 3 becomes trolling IMO).

Original post remains. No need to repost. Further discussion can continue in the thread specifically started re: LA Times Review.

MN-Rabbit

04-20-06, 05:27 PM

Mr. Milt Smith, Why are you fighting this battle? The people in this forum are spending THEIR MONEY not YOURS on these players! This is AMERICA!

bferr1

04-20-06, 05:30 PM

Okay, mrsmith, we all get it: you are not impressed with HD DVD. Unless you are an end user, as the thread title suggests, will you please go away? Thank you.

dssturbo1

04-20-06, 05:34 PM

Found one on the Addison IL Best Buy store and was the last one left. Picked it up with Serenity for 599.00 Unit + 2 Year Warranty + Serenity.

I can't Wait till I fly back home to Puerto Rico on Saturday. I think I might proably be the First with one in the Island :D

Jorge
i hope that is a typo. the unit is $499 at best buy, the 2 year warranty was $29 and my local BB had $29 on Serenity but said they would honor $24 from sunday ad paper. plus taxes of course. the four year extended was only $39 seems good deal for 2 extra years. i hate insurance but prtobably good thing at this price on new tech.

my local bb had the hd a1 demo sitting unplugged on a shelf with no tv display at all and remote/cables sitting in back of it, only other item was a $100 monster hdmi cable above it on hanger, lol. with 3 new retail boxes sitting on lowest shelf.

CPanther95

04-20-06, 05:34 PM

Just stick to the topic, and don't take the bait - we'll try to keep this thread clean and productive for users and potential users.

Luke M

04-20-06, 05:38 PM

Mark Zimmer

04-20-06, 05:49 PM

If I'm reading that LA Times review right, he hooked up the HD-A1 to a 32"
HDTV using the red and white audio and yellow video cables that come with the player---he didn't even use component, just composite and stereo analog. No wonder he wasn't impressed. :confused:

mpalmieri1203

04-20-06, 05:50 PM

Got mine today. I am very impressed with picture quality on all three releases as I won the previous three releases. I would also say that the upconverting is just as good if not better than my Panasonic S77 meaning that I can get rid of that...

I am using a Toshiba 46HM84 DLP television. It is a great TV which I believe is 720P native. I really wasn't too sure if this format waas going to make that much of a huge difference....but when I watch these HD-DVDs I feel like I'm watching a film not a DVD which I think is great...Now I'm really going to have a hard time going to the movie theater!

The remote does suck but I planned for this and had my Harmony 880 all setup and ready to go and it works like a charm. The unit is slower and less responsive than current DVD players but it doesn't feel like a piece of crap. It is very heavy and feels like a quality made product for the money.

I found the sense of depth on Serenity and TPOTO to be very good. I wouldn't say three dimensional but I would say you get more depth than you did with DVD. Plus there is no artifacting no EE and no macroblocking what so ever....which is great

The only thing I'm annoyed with is the audio side...the WB releases play too low...I can jack my AVR up though and it sounds fine. The soundtrack on Serenity simply blows the previous release out of the water...my SVS was really getting a work out on these new releases...I dont know if I trust the built in calibration in this unit too much though. I did use Avia to set my levels and have Enhanced Black set to on...is that correct? The image did not need much tweaking as it looks so great. I guess I would say that if you are in the market for a new DVD player...just go for one of these bad boys..

Larry Sutliff

04-20-06, 05:51 PM

Apparently others have NOT seen it, judging
by several private e-mails I've received
already.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

So that means you had to post it twice in a row in this thread?

Did you mention that the reviewer didn't even hook the player up via HDMI or component to the several folks who've emailed you?

tashy4

04-20-06, 05:53 PM

I have just gotten this unit in looked really nice when I plugged it in straight to my Projectory Panasonic PT-AE500, now when I go through my Marantz SR9600 HDMI it seem to work fine if I have the player and the receiver on but when I turn on my projector I get the HDMI Error 0. I am using an HDMI - DVI cable from the receiver to my projector. Anyone Have any ideas suggestions. Really not looking forward to using the analog cables for the audio. Does anyone think if I use a HDMI-HDMI cable with a DVI adapter it would make a difference. Thanks,

jonz

04-20-06, 05:59 PM

"It will also upscale the SD-DVDs to 720p."

This is the first Ive heard of this.

Mark Zimmer

04-20-06, 06:00 PM

Is the Harmony Remote profile online up to date now with the correct information, or is it still the bogus DVD Recorder info?

lymzy

04-20-06, 06:01 PM

"It will also upscale the SD-DVDs to 720p."

This is the first Ive heard of this.

HD-A1 will upscale SD DVD up to 1080 through HDMI. However, it will not upscale css protected DVD over component. This is due to the CSS license.

Grateful11

04-20-06, 06:02 PM

I can't believe I read the whole thing. Just found this thread today and have been reading off and on all day. I was going for the Oppo but I'm definitely holding off on that and getting the Toshiba. This whole thing reminds me of when CD's first came out. I remember paying $400 for a Mitsubishi player and Peaches Records and Tapes only carried about 20 titles to choose from. I definitely don't regret being an early adopter with CDs and some of those early German and Japanese CDs are still the best especially the Telarc stuff. Anyway my wife going to have to keep me away from BB and the other stores for a while somehow. Somebody stop me! I want to thank everyone that took the time to post the extensive reviews and opinions.
Grateful11

BTW: Does anyone know if the WM player will have the same Remote?

CPanther95

04-20-06, 06:12 PM

Discussion relating to the LA Times review can be posted here:

LA Times Review - Discussion thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=669271)

PLASMATU

04-20-06, 06:18 PM

CAN somebody try an hdmi to dvi cable and see if it works ?

Would be top notch if the dvi monitor/telly isnt hdcp compatible too ! Think its

pretty interesting for many havin dvi non hdcp complaint plasma etc etc ! (here

got a 42pma500e plasma paid 2000€ dvi non hdcp compatible),

I think that HD chinese players ll come savin me but meanwhile I just dont want

to use component OVER dvi!

- - - - - - > PLEASE SOMEBODY DO TEST THAT ! <- - - - -

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THAT SINCE IT SEEMS PEOPLE PURCHASIN IT AND HAVIN HDMI ERROR 0 ARE SURFACING !
THATS VVITAL AND ONE OF THE MOST UNKNOWN THINGIES, Its out of question that it look better then anything before i guess includin ts floating off net....

mrsmith

04-20-06, 06:19 PM

Okay, mrsmith, we all get it: you are not impressed with HD DVD. Unless you are an end user, as the thread title suggests, will you please go away? Thank you.
No, you miss the point. I've been looking at the machine
with an interest in buying one, and I think that varying
views are important to getting a well-rounded impression
of this machine - I know I look to this and other forums
for just such input.

Would you suggest that the L.A. Times review of this
player also "go away" because it differs from the
views of forum participants such as yourself? If
indeed, you are somehow apprehensive of negative
comments or reviews, that suggests to me that
there may be another agenda at work. In my case,
I have no ax to grind, having no direct or indirect
connection either with Toshiba, or any electronics
manufacturer, distributor or anyone else
connected with the industry. I'm simply a
home theater enthusiast seeking to get
a viewpoint out that may not necessarily
agree with all the blather being disseminated
by the special interests. Remember Beta?
Remember RCA SelectaVision? Remember DAT?

Thereis nothing so powerful as the truth
unvarnished.

Milt R. Smith
mrsmith2002@yahoo.com

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 06:20 PM

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 06:23 PM

Did you all hear Best Buy has MDB in stock in some places? Thought i'd post here since some complaints in this thread are due to lack of titles.

jonz

04-20-06, 06:33 PM

What about the phone line hookup. It is necessary to play the discs?

bferr1

04-20-06, 06:35 PM

I'm simply a
home theater enthusiast seeking to get
a viewpoint out that may not necessarily
agree with all the blather being disseminated
by the special interests.

You're trying to get in your opinion heard in a thread called "Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports"? How exactly is your contrarian opinion helpful here? Most of us on this thread already bought the player! Should I return it because you and the "L.A. Times" think it's not worth it?

rdjam

04-20-06, 06:37 PM

Well if that's the case, then whats the point of having a lossless codec since you are chopping off bits from the master to get there.. a rhetorical comment BTW :) That asanine that we have a great new codec that's being crippled like that on these titles...

We are so close, yet so far away...

In regards to the DD+ tracks, were they 16 or 24 bit?
I agree, filmMixer - at least couldn't they use 20 bit? I found the sound of 20 bit very good on HDCD-encoded discs.

Dave Vaughn

04-20-06, 06:38 PM

Mr Smith...another quote for the article:

When the movie finally appeared, it was squeezed, causing shapes to be distorted. The globe in the Universal logo was more egg-shaped than spherical. Actresses in the first scene appeared even more emaciated than the norm.

The idiot didn't even go into the setup and set the output for a 4x3 TV!!!

Dave

darinp2

04-20-06, 06:39 PM

PLASMATU

04-20-06, 06:42 PM

It doesnt work, you have to have HDCP.

I could guess that too,but a person that tests it directly with impressions and considerationts would be better dont u think ? Since it seems that someone is havin that issue already with a panny projector,immagine spendin that sum and not being able to use it ...+ I really wanted to know all of u have hdcp complaint displays ? sounds odd !

Originally Posted by PLASMATU

CAN somebody try an h dmi to dvi cable and see if it works ?

Would be top notch if the dvi monitor/telly isnt hdcp compatible too ! Think its

pretty interesting for many havin dvi non hdcp complaint plasma etc etc ! (here

got a 42pma500e plasma paid 2000€ dvi non hdcp compatible),

I think that HD chinese players ll come savin me but meanwhile I just dont want

to use component OVER dvi!

- - - - - - > PLEASE SOMEBODY DO TEST THAT ! <- - - - -

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THAT SINCE IT SEEMS PEOPLE PURCHASIN IT AND HAVIN HDMI ERROR 0 ARE SURFACING !
THATS VVITAL AND ONE OF THE MOST UNKNOWN THINGIES, Its out of question that it look better then anything before i guess includin ts floating

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 06:47 PM

I could guess it that too,but a person that tests it directly with impressions and considerationts would be better dont u think ? Since it seems that someone is havin that issue already with a panny projector,immagine spendin that sum and not being able to use it ...+ I really want to know all of u have hdcp complaint displays ? sounds odd !

Originally Posted by PLASMATU

CAN somebody try an h dmi to dvi cable and see if it works ?

Would be top notch if the dvi monitor/telly isnt hdcp compatible too ! Think its

pretty interesting for many havin dvi non hdcp complaint plasma etc etc ! (here

got a 42pma500e plasma paid 2000€ dvi non hdcp compatible),

I think that HD chinese players ll come savin me but meanwhile I just dont want

to use component OVER dvi!

- - - - - - > PLEASE SOMEBODY DO TEST THAT ! <- - - - -

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THAT SINCE IT SEEMS PEOPLE PURCHASIN IT AND HAVIN HDMI ERROR 0 ARE SURFACING !
THATS VVITAL AND ONE OF THE MOST UNKNOWN THINGIES, Its out of question that it look better then anything before i guess includin ts floating

Umm what? Its part of the HD-DVD spec, it has to have HDCP, there is no option. Anyone who makes an HD-DVD player has to use HDCP over digital connection. The HDMI errors are people with HDCP compliant displays, there are just some incompatibilities. Yes this sucks, but it still doesnt change the fact that HDCP is required.

rdjam

04-20-06, 06:48 PM

This, coupled with LG's confirmation to Reuters that
they'll be offering a multi-format(STD DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray)
player this Fall, makes the Toshiba, to me at least, a
questionable purchase. But, I'm glad to see that
you are delighted with it, and hope it does not
ultimately become a superfluous buy.

mrssmith - this is exactly why one shouldn't be buying the BR-only players.

1) At least we get to enjoy HD DVD for 6 months or so -
2) and there'll be far more HD DVD movies available when these hybrid players come out (and more HD DVD selection than BR discs)
3) HD DVD deck now is less than $500 - BR-only players are $1000 and up to $1,800!
4) Hyrbrid-player will probably cost $950 to $1200

Real question to ask yourself is WHY would anyone buy a BR-only player?

At least I bought the A1 for $450, know that I'd likely look at a hybrid player later on. It would really annoy me if I paid TWO to THREE times the price of A1 and only got two or three months out of it before the hybrid players showed up.

Just my thoughts :) But logix!

archibael

04-20-06, 06:57 PM

What about the phone line hookup. It is necessary to play the discs?

No.

stoked

04-20-06, 07:00 PM

Chris Rein

04-20-06, 07:00 PM

I have an A1, and like the image quality, however, the player itself drives me insane. There's no excuse for a slow player like the A1 currently operates.

I see people highly defending it, and also confirming their unit has all the bugs, problems etc. That is okay...to a point. There are some things that just don't warrant a huge debate (like the lovely remote), but there are some things that do (HDMI, analog, sound formats, sync issues, etc.)

Would you go find a car that you have been dying to get, drive it, find out that it gets 10 mpg, can't use the horn, has no power steering, and runs on diesel, and the windows stick? You get Sirius radio dialed in, but there is a problem with the antenna and the signal drops every 5 minutes, and there's no fix. And the best part, the car looks great! Would you still buy it?

Sure, I'm talking about a much more expensive item, but the issues are the same. I am FULLY onboard that the price is perfect for a new format, and the image is very good. But with 2 of the 3 launch titles having audio issues, and issues with the player itself, is it worth keeping? I'm asking myself the same question right now as I sit looking at my A1 and the one movie I have watched. I have more HD titles on my DVR from FiOS than HD-DVD will have out in a month, and better movies (material) too! What I find simply hilarious is the fact that on The Last Samurai disc, the intro demo shows that HD-DVD can carry up to 7.1 channels of digital audio. What happens when a 7.1 movie comes out? Guess you're SOL with the A1 since it only does 5.1 analog out. And I can accept 7.1 on my pre-pro. I just find that amusing.

I'm very excited about this format, and have seen the image that it can provide (when I saw that Warner logo up front, wow was that vibrant and clean, and the movie looked very sharp and focused), but I'm not excited about the launch of the format so far and the offerings it has for us early adopters. I was fortunate enough to be in one of the test markets for DVD, and I can tell you I was pleased with my 3006 Toshiba and the titles at launch. I can't say the same about this one.

Also, has anyone stepped back and done a birds-eye view on this whole forum on HD-DVD? Look how many conflicting reports, misinformation, confusion and frustration is found. It's pretty sad, and I have to blame it on the marketing/advertising crew of HD-DVD. Even the pros of the forums are having issues, and the answers are nowhere to be found. Very sad. I can point fingers at marketing/advertising as that's the industry I am in! It's pathetic!

Anyway, before I get dumped on, I want to say that the video of HD-DVD is definitely on the mark, and will be a full backer of it when it cleans up a bit. I really think the launch should have been held back a bit, and launched with better marketing, advertising, titles and support. This makes the Xbox 360 launch look like the Holy Grail of launches, and both had the same agenda...beat Sony to the punch! :D

One last thing, the manual add-on states that you need to match the resolution of the player to that of the disc. There has to be some genius out there to encode a flag on the discs to tell the player, hey, we've got 1080p here, or 1080i, or 720p. Same kind of flag that DD-EX uses. Just a thought. I can see the average consumer looking at this and going, "Okay, 1080p, um, I don't have a 1080p option on the player?" :eek:

tashy4

04-20-06, 07:07 PM

Now the issue I have run into is different since my projector is HDCP compliant. I will be trying to use a HDMI-HDMI cable with an adapter from the receiver to the projector. If that does not work. I will also try to use a DVI-DVI cable with an HDMI adapter. I will report any findings on here.

Dave Vaughn

04-20-06, 07:13 PM

I have a HDMI-DVI cable with no issues at all.

As far as the player being slow, it is that way because it is basically a PC. Look at the insides...it is a P$ with a friggin gig of ram. You have to start the OS..that is what takes so long. Maybe they will be able to speed it up with some firmware upgrades, but at this point I'm willing to deal with it. Once it starts, there isn't an issue with the movies playing (yet). My first generation DVD player had massive lip synch problems, but I dealt with it!

Gruson

04-20-06, 07:13 PM

I just hooked it up. No problems at all for me setting it up. It took maybe 10 minutes for all the wiring.

I am going HDMI out to a Zektor DVI switch and then to my Infocus 7200 (720p) DLP projector and 119" high gain screen.

The picture is beautiful. No artifacts at all and some of the best HD I have ever seen.

I hooked up the analog outputs and optical output for the audio to compare both.

Both audio sources work fine but have issues with Last Samurai.

The level is lower and lacking bass though HDMI. My buttkicker barely even shakes because of the sound problem.

However, I can hear a difference compared to optical. The sound is "fuller" because of the higher bitrate with the analogs.

I can imagine how much nicer it will sound when mastered correctly.

Optical has more bass but is also low compared to other DVDs I tried. Again, mastering issue with Warner.

Again, the picture is gorgeous!!!

Upconverting of standard DVDs is pretty good too. It looks very similar to my Oppo DVD player.

Good job Toshiba!

davehdwell

04-20-06, 07:13 PM

I hooked up my new Toshiba HD A1 over the analogue line level outs to my 1 year old receiver and high end speakers and found the sound from this player rocks. This player is a big step forward in so many ways. As an (self proclaimed) audio guy, I think that it is really cool that this unit supports Dobly TrueHD (Upto 6Mbps lossless MLP). I cannot wait to watch a title encoded with TrueHD. I have pulled my SPDIF cable and threw it in the draw (forever) because it only supports 1.5 Mbps. I do not care that the line level and HDMI outs of this player are in LPCM. I actually think it is a very smart design to multiplex the encoded audio with secondary sounds (button sounds, director commentary etc.) and leave the audio in LPCM. Brilliant! As for SPDIF, I think it is dead. So I do not care about the fuss in the other threads about DD+ to encoding DTS when using the SPDIF output.

The purchase of this player has me looking for a new receiver with HDMI so that I avoid the Image Constraint Token issues discussed in the other threads. A very nice 1 year old receiver is going on ebay very soon.

As for the video quality, Serenity, M$B and TLS all look fantastic. I could not be happier. Everyone I have show the movies to has been very impressed.

One of the biggest surprises is how cool the menu features are. I love that you can do so much without leaving the movie. The graphics are really cool to.

Have the studios announced when they will start to encode in Dolby TrueHD? With this awesome player, it is just a matter of time. I cannot wait.

I have a Toshiba HD XA1 on back order at Tweeters so that I can take advantage RS-232 remote support. My kids are fighting over the A1.

BrandonJF

04-20-06, 07:15 PM

The only negative I've seen so far is that when I upscale standard DVDs to 1080i, text (like in credits) is real jittery. Looks fine in 480p and 720p. My old Zenith didn't suffer from that same issue when I sent 1080i over component. I can't notice any issues with 1080i when I'm not staring at the scrolling text and normal video is playing. For now, I'll probably just play standard DVD in 480p and let the projector do the scaling. Hopefully it's just an issue between the A1 and my Screenplay 5700. I'm replacing the 5700 with an IN76 next week, so I'm hoping that might take care of it. Of course, I have nothing to base that hope on... :)

Chris Rein

04-20-06, 07:21 PM

Chris Rein

04-20-06, 07:38 PM

Just looking at the little add-in sheet that came with the A1, it shows "True HD" being 2ch PCM only. Where's the 5.1?

I've looked in the manual too, and it's showing Analog out being 2ch only too. What gives here?

Dolby's website clearly states that it can do lossless in True HD. I wonder if this is a misprint, or that the player can't do it either?

From www.dolby.com

Dolby® TrueHD is Dolby’s next-generation lossless technology developed for high-definition disc-based media. Dolby TrueHD delivers tantalizing sound that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master, unlocking the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs. When coupled with high-definition video, Dolby TrueHD offers an unprecedented home theater experience that lets you enjoy sound as stunning as the high-definition picture.

Features
100 percent lossless coding technology.
Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.
Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.*
Supported by High-Definition Media Interface (HDMI™), the new single-cable digital connection for audio and video.
Supports extensive metadata including dialogue normalization and dynamic range control.
*Dolby TrueHD can support more than eight audio channels. HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc standards currently limit their maximum number of audio channels to eight.

Benefits
Delivers enthralling studio-master-quality sound that unlocks the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs.
Offers more discrete channels than ever before for impeccable surround sound.
Compatible with the A/V receivers and home-theaters-in-a-box (HTIBs) of today and tomorrow.
Dialogue normalization maintains the same volume level when you change to other Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD programming.
Dynamic range control (Night mode) enables you to customize audio playback to reduce peak volume levels (no loud surprises) while experiencing all the details in the soundtrack, enabling late-night viewing of high-energy surround sound without disturbing others.
Selected as the mandatory format for HD DVD and as an optional format for Blu-ray Disc.
Where You’ll Find Dolby TrueHD
HD disc player, A/V receiver, home-theater-in-a-box (HTIB), automobile, personal computer

theroys88

04-20-06, 08:00 PM

... until now! Have you not read about it in this Forum?

No I have not! Please enlighten me if you could.

Rockokma

04-20-06, 08:32 PM

Would you go find a car that you have been dying to get, drive it, find out that it gets 10 mpg, can't use the horn, has no power steering, and runs on diesel, and the windows stick? You get Sirius radio dialed in, but there is a problem with the antenna and the signal drops every 5 minutes, and there's no fix. And the best part, the car looks great! Would you still buy it?

Your HD-A1 has a Sirius Radio and a horn... NOOO WAAAYYYY!!!!

Good analogy... :\

Aaron Davis

04-20-06, 08:34 PM

Just looking at the little add-in sheet that came with the A1, it shows "True HD" being 2ch PCM only. Where's the 5.1?

I've looked in the manual too, and it's showing Analog out being 2ch only too. What gives here?

TrueHD is fully capable of multichannel lossless, Phantom has a TrueHD 5.1 track. Unfortunately the HD-A1 doesnt have the capability, it can only output 2ch from a TrueHD track. Future players will improve upon hopefully! Fortunately we can still have our DD+ and DTS-HD decoded full quality over HDMI or Analog.

Rockokma

04-20-06, 08:37 PM

Anyway, before I get dumped on, I want to say that the video of HD-DVD is definitely on the mark, and will be a full backer of it when it cleans up a bit. I really think the launch should have been held back a bit, and launched with better marketing, advertising, titles and support. This makes the Xbox 360 launch look like the Holy Grail of launches, and both had the same agenda...beat Sony to the punch! :D

One last thing, the manual add-on states that you need to match the resolution of the player to that of the disc. There has to be some genius out there to encode a flag on the discs to tell the player, hey, we've got 1080p here, or 1080i, or 720p. Same kind of flag that DD-EX uses. Just a thought. I can see the average consumer looking at this and going, "Okay, 1080p, um, I don't have a 1080p option on the player?" :eek:

For people making this type of statement i'de just like to say this.

Toshiba is not really trying to advertise and market the HD-A1 as much as they are HD-DVD in general and the technology. Almost all the players and software is sold out and poeple are very happy with the IMAGE...

If I were Toshiba I'de be happy with that letting people know that this is the FIRST to come from HD-DVD and it could only get better when more advanced, time prepared 1080p Players are out.

OzHDHT

04-20-06, 08:42 PM

Don't The Ruby and Qualia accept 1080p 24sf. ? Can't they both display this at 48Hz ? This is the judder eliminator. :)

Art

That's exactly how it would be fixed Art. However the argument I'm caught in at the moment is that the A1 is still feeding them 1080i60, which as far as I'm aware won't automatically be converted to 48Hz.

The is the lastest statement on 60Hz judder from the local forum:

You have to remember that this judder is not unique to HD-DVD. It applies to SD-DVD NTSC as well. As such they won't comment on it because they have been living with it all their lives! Up until recently, the only displays that were imune to it were CRT projectors. Now, digitals such as the Ruby are coming out with 24/48 support which should banish motion judder from the NTSC film world. You just either have to wait for the players to catch up and offer 24/48 output or get an external scaler that can do it for you.

This kind of attitude really makes me shake my head in that I get sick of these guys here in PAL-land constantly trying to say that the American videophile is some how inferior and we seem to know so much better in our puny PAL market...It just doesn't rub with me as a loyal AVS'er.

jorgerod

04-20-06, 08:58 PM

i hope that is a typo. the unit is $499 at best buy, the 2 year warranty was $29 and my local BB had $29 on Serenity but said they would honor $24 from sunday ad paper. plus taxes of course. the four year extended was only $39 seems good deal for 2 extra years. i hate insurance but prtobably good thing at this price on new tech.

my local bb had the hd a1 demo sitting unplugged on a shelf with no tv display at all and remote/cables sitting in back of it, only other item was a $100 monster hdmi cable above it on hanger, lol. with 3 new retail boxes sitting on lowest shelf.

No mistake, you need to Add the almost $40 7.5% Chicago Sales Tax

Jorge

DavidHir

04-20-06, 09:05 PM

Has anyone tried (programming) a different remote to use with the HD-A1?

scififan

04-20-06, 09:10 PM

I got my HD-A1 today and hooked it up to my Denon 2807. I ran the HDMI from the HD-A1 to the Denon and another HDMI cable to my Toshiba TV. I am having no problems with the picture or sound. I made sure I went through the setup menu on the HD-A1 and set everything to HDMI auto. I went into the menu on the Denon 2807 and also set it up for HDMI auto. I have read so many posts, I am not sure which one I read, but someone said to turn off the sound on the TV, when hooking up the HDMI cables.

I have not received any HD DVDs yet, but so far I am very pleased with the picture and sound I am getting from SD DVDs.

I'm not sure what I did to fix my problem, but it does now appear to be working. Thanks!

keenan

04-20-06, 09:16 PM

Has anyone tried (programming) a different remote to use with the HD-A1?
Harmony remotes should work fine. The 880 I have works perfectly.

Rockokma

04-20-06, 09:18 PM

Harmony remotes should work fine. The 880 I have works perfectly.

Mine works almost perfectly, did you learn each command or auto setup wizard?

Mine has trouble w/ the play/pause button at times, I'm sure it is my own fault some how.

keenan

04-20-06, 09:40 PM

Mine works almost perfectly, did you learn each command or auto setup wizard?

Mine has trouble w/ the play/pause button at times, I'm sure it is my own fault some how.
I had to learn them all, I didn't copy over every single command, but enough that it operates the player and all functions when playing a disc, and I can use it in the setup menu. I haven't had any trouble with it. Things like the resolution button I left off because once I set that to 1080i I wasn't going to change it.

Dave Vaughn

04-20-06, 09:49 PM

Has anyone tried (programming) a different remote to use with the HD-A1?

Yes...MX700 and it works perfectly!

tonydeluce

04-20-06, 09:55 PM

I just hooked up my HD-A1 to my Samsung 6168 and all I get is a green
screen on my display via HDMI.

I am not seeing HDMI highlighted on the screen. When I press v.outuput
on my remote v.out remains displayed on my HD-A1 without the HDMI
on the LEDs.

Has anyone else seen this?

jstevenson

04-20-06, 10:05 PM

Paul H

04-20-06, 10:10 PM

Unfortunately the HD-A1 doesnt have the capability, it can only output 2ch from a TrueHD track. Future players will improve upon hopefully! Fortunately we can still have our DD+ and DTS-HD decoded full quality over HDMI or Analog."Full quality" DTS-HD, according to my HD-A1 owner's manual p.24 is "not supported"

"Note about audio Capabilities
• Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD (DTS core only)
capability limited to 5.1 channels.
• DTS-HD processing of DTS core only. Full DTS-HD is
not supported.
• Dolby TrueHD processing for two channels only."

Rockokma

04-20-06, 10:10 PM

ebr

04-20-06, 10:13 PM

For you Harmony owners - they appear to have their database up to date now. I just ran the setup wizard for my 880 and it works flawlessly with the A1.

Rockokma

04-20-06, 10:14 PM

For you Harmony owners - they appear to have their database up to date now. I just ran the setup wizard for my 880 and it works flawlessly with the A1.

Thanks for the info!

Did you use model HD-A1 or the HD-As1 or something like that?

tonydeluce

04-20-06, 10:15 PM

I saw it once, but i restarted and it went away.

I rebooted several times and still the same...

ebr

04-20-06, 10:23 PM

Thanks for the info!

Did you use model HD-A1 or the HD-As1 or something like that?

I typed in "HD-A1" and it all appears to work - well, at least I tested the majors - power, play, pause, ff, menu, arrows, ok...

ebr

04-20-06, 10:28 PM

sfhub

04-20-06, 10:41 PM

Has anyone tried (programming) a different remote to use with the HD-A1?
I programmed my JP1 remote with no issues other than Toshiba not supporting discrete off. I found some additional IR commands also. These were my experiences.

Q: Does Toshiba HD-A1 support discrete on/off?

A: Partially, there is a IR code that functions as discrete on, but no discrete off. You can either use the discrete on IR available in the JP1 upgrade, or you can use "Play" as a substitute for discrete on. For discrete off, you will need to have some sort of device state tracking as the trusty old "Play/PowerToggle" substitute for discrete off will not work because the HD-A1 does not respond to IR until it is finished booting and it takes so long to boot.

Q: Where is JP1 upgrade for Toshiba HD-A1?

A: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3092

These codes were created for the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player.

All original functions of OEM remote are included, including
some extra functions not on the original remote.

Following functions *not* included on the OEM have been added:

discrete on (discrete off not available)
tray lock/unlock
factory reset
display time
display firmware ver

sfhub

04-20-06, 10:45 PM

As far as the player being slow, it is that way because it is basically a PC. Look at the insides...it is a P$ with a friggin gig of ram. You have to start the OS..that is what takes so long. Maybe they will be able to speed it up with some firmware upgrades, but at this point I'm willing to deal with it.
So why don't they do a real "standby" instead of full shutdown? Even my bloated winxp box starts up in a second from standby.

umr

04-20-06, 10:48 PM

"Full quality" DTS-HD, according to my HD-A1 owner's manual p.24 is "not supported"

"Note about audio Capabilities
• Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD (DTS core only)
capability limited to 5.1 channels.
• DTS-HD processing of DTS core only. Full DTS-HD is
not supported.
• Dolby TrueHD processing for two channels only."

I am really surprised this is not getting more attention. This new player is missing much of the audio improvement promised by this new format.

jstevenson

04-20-06, 10:50 PM

I am really surprised this is not getting more attention. This new player is missing much of the audio improvement promised by this new format.

The main question I have is if a firmware update can fix it. That'll be the key.

umr

04-20-06, 10:54 PM

The main question I have is if a firmware update can fix it. That'll be the key.

I would not hold my breath for one. :)

umr

04-20-06, 10:55 PM

The main question I have is if a firmware update can fix it. That'll be the key.

This is so much like the DTS debacle with the first DVD players it is scarey.

blsmith

04-20-06, 11:19 PM

Has anyone been able to get the IF 7200 to work with the Toshiba A1? I get the HDMI ERROR 1 code. Am using the IF 10m M1 to DVI cable with Monster HDMI adapter.

JasonTNT

04-21-06, 12:14 AM

I'm sorry but I have seen this player in person 3x now and I just don't see a HUGE difference. What a bummer...always a let down. 360...sold it in two days for less than I paid, I simply felt bad for the guy buying it..the system is a joke! Now this garbage...I guess the PS3 will be the same...all build up, talk and hype but simply no action. Let's truly evolve please.

DishNetwork is the best we can do for HD in the States with 25 HD channels, whoopidy dooo! Of those 25, maybe 7 are really worth a damn. Why is this taking so long? Everybody, and I mean everybody at my office, my family and friends all have HDTV's. Keep in mind this is a very diverse group of people, high income to no income. Can we please feed these wonderful sets something before they become extinct?

Its as if our country has been run by politians my home state of Louisiana for the past 15 years. Democrat, Republican, doesn't matter, no one is helping to really push this new digital era and GROW!!!

Sorry for the rant but all this hype for the NEW NEXT BIG THING is really getting old. Lets at least get HDMI straight before we even think of going on to something else that SUCKS!!!

EricQ

04-21-06, 12:37 AM

I dont know if you guys know this but there is a$25 cash cert available with the purchase of this player.

jocktheglide

04-21-06, 12:41 AM

Everybody, and I mean everybody at my office, my family and friends all have HDTV's. Keep in mind this is a very diverse group of people, high income to no income. Can we please feed these wonderful sets something before they become extinct?

damn so folks in your office work for free man I mean no income so Im assuming work for food or something program? that sucks..

jocktheglide

04-21-06, 12:44 AM

freaking went to two walmarts all their HD disc are gone damn it the guy said they got only to like 5 discs of each movie/store so 5 TLS damn them.

mpalmieri1203

04-21-06, 12:48 AM

Well after watching Serenity to completion I can honestly say that my TV has never ever displayed a better picture than when using HD-DVD....I feel like im at the begining of DVD all over again. I would not repurchase all of my DVDs but I will be making as many new purchases as possible on this format and repurchasing my favorites. I just wish there was more content! I feel like I saw The Last Samurai and Serenity for the first time tonight. The more I watch the more I amazed. I just don't see how it gets any better than this at all!

jocktheglide

04-21-06, 12:53 AM

I just don't see how it gets any better than this at all!
didnt we say that about dvd when it first came out in 1997 LOL :)

Head Shot

04-21-06, 12:58 AM

Which of these HD DVD's would you consider as reference...I know its way early but whats your user opinion.

Chris Rein

04-21-06, 01:03 AM

sspears

04-21-06, 01:09 AM

In regards to the DD+ tracks, were they 16 or 24 bit?

I am pretty sure it is 16. I will try and confirm at NAB next week.

Of course 24-bit and lossy don't really belong together given the way perceptual coding works. :) There are several AES papers that show 20-bit / 48 kHz is ideal for the final product. 24-bit / 96 kHz on the production side is great because it allows plenty of room for slop. For what its worth, I was (am) a fan of DVD-A and have most of the discs that were released.

mpalmieri1203

04-21-06, 01:21 AM

Which of these HD DVD's would you consider as reference...I know its way early but whats your user opinion.

I would say Phantom and Last Samurai over Serenity.... The sense of depth you get from The Last Samurai is amazing. Phantom also looks great. I would honestly just pick the film that appeals to you most if your limited in what you can purchase. All three look great but Serenity has a more nitty gritty feel to it. They all look like they did in the movie theater from my recollection which is all we could ask for. They look like extremely clean prints with an amazing sense of depth(more so than in the theater actually). This leads me to beleive we will not be rating the transfers much anymore but more the codition of the source. These transfers could really really bring out the source flaws in our viewing material.

mpalmieri1203

04-21-06, 01:24 AM

Jock you're right but I had seen HD before and knew that that was way better than DVD. Now I just don't know what comes after this.....3D projection?

didnt we say that about dvd when it first came out in 1997 LOL :)

Head Shot

04-21-06, 01:29 AM

I moved the subject matter regarding the early reference HD DVD choices to here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7524621#post7524621

So as to not interrupt this highly charged discussion. :D

sspears

04-21-06, 01:30 AM

Enhanced Black

This post may be better served in the FAQ but I will start it here.

In the US, NTSC placed black at 7.5 IRE. The rest of the world placed black at 0 IRE. The 7.5 IRE is also known as Setup or Pedastal. For those who experienced laser disc, US discs had setup while those from Japan did not. If you watch an LD from Japan, it would have appeared darker.

Things changed with DVD. Instead of encoding with this 7.5 IRE setup, they produced everything at 0 IRE. IRE is an analog term so I will stop using it now since DVD is digital while LD video was analog.

The DVD player was expected to add Setup. Setup was also really just for interlaced composite and s-video. Some DVD players had setup, some did not and some allowed the user to choose. Enhanced Black was a common name for the user selection. Enhanced Black "off" meant Setup was added while enhanced black "on" meant no setup. The reason it was enhanced is because you got a little bit more dynamic range.

For a while many displays only had one video memory. Since VHS, LD, Cable and DSS often have setup, it made since to have setup on the DVD as well so you only had to calibrate once and all sources were good to go. (Pretend we are in a perfect world and the levels matched between components :)) This is why you will find that Setup has often been applied to the progressive output.

DVDs are digital component video as is DSS. This means you have three channels a Y or Luma channel and two color difference channels (Cb and Cr) The valid range is from 1 to 254. 0 and 255 are reserved. Reference black is placed at 16 and reference white at 235 for Luma. Cb and Cr are 16 and 240. The value below 16 and above 235 (240 for Cb and Cr) are what I call toe and head room. Test patterns use values below 16 to aid in setting up displays. The blacker-than-black stripe on a PLUGE pattern (SMPTE color bars w/ PLUGE) is at digital level 7. (-4% or 4% below black) Digital level 16 maps to 0 or 7.5 depending on how you set Enhanced black.

This feature should not make a difference on the digital output and from my initial testing it does not. You may also see reference to PC or video levels for the digital output. Video levels is what I consider the proper way. Some don't agree. For video levels the digital level 16 (Luma) would map to R 16, G 16, B 16. In this mapping Cb and Cr would equal 128. Digital level 235 would map to R 235, G 235 and B 235. Again Cb and Cr would be 128 in this example. PC levels would map level 16 to R 0, G 0 and B 0. 235 would be mapped to R 255, G 255 and B 255. All values below 16 and above 235 would be lost. If you just mapped as is you would also have gaps between levels. This would show up in the image as contouring or banding. To avoid that you would want to dither.

Sorry for the long post. It is hard to type in this little quick reply window. :)

Many old timers on this thread understand the above but I have seen a bunch of newer members posting and thought it seemed like something worth saying. Of course it is too much information and many eyes probably started glazing over while trying to read.

Head Shot

04-21-06, 01:34 AM

I am so clueless about SERENITY, but am hearing that this has been an excellent or very good ware for viewing.

sspears

04-21-06, 01:35 AM

Head Shot,

Have you watched the TV series Firefly? Serenity is a continuation of that series. If you have not seen the series I recommend it. If you liked Buffy or Angel you will love Serenity.

Robert D

04-21-06, 01:36 AM

jocktheglide

04-21-06, 01:49 AM

heres my HD signal baby nothing compares to this LOL:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/rapunzel_1/100_0361.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/rapunzel_1/100_0363.jpg

Head Shot

04-21-06, 01:53 AM

WOW ! some sharp pics.

sspears- I don't even know about Firefly, is it on one of the networks? If so, can you tell me which?

I do not have cable or dish, just OTA.

Robert D

04-21-06, 01:58 AM

WOW ! some sharp pics.

sspears- I don't even know about Firefly, is it on one of the networks? If so, can you tell me which?

I do not have cable or dish, just OTA.

FireFly was cancelled by Fox after 13 or so episodes (really dumb). A DVD set of all the episodes is available at many stores for as low as $24, I bought my set at Target.

jocktheglide

04-21-06, 02:09 AM

model potential on HD?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/rapunzel_1/100_0364.jpg

JET99

04-21-06, 02:19 AM

darinp2

04-21-06, 02:39 AM

I'm sorry but I have seen this player in person 3x now and I just don't see a HUGE difference.
...
Can we please feed these wonderful sets something before they become extinct?
What is it you want? You just got content that was transparent to the masters and you complained that you couldn't see a HUGE difference. Sounds like what you want is video content or films that have been modified so that they no longer look like their masters.

--Darin

PGHammer

04-21-06, 02:41 AM

Rats, I would sell my cat to get my hands on a player. :D

The HD-A1 is going to *every* BB in North America (however, expect the early vultures to get these baby worms early).

What I like, in addition to the HD-playback, is the SD DVD upconversion (even though it's limited to HDMI) the built-in DD/DTS decoder, and the fact that you can actually add it to your LAN (unfortunately, wired Fast Ethernet only, not wireless or gigabit) in addition to it being able to play *every DVD or CD media format except Blu-Ray* (it even plays Windows Media Video HD and MP3CD).

Actually, it's no larger than a DVD/VCR combo-box (the A/V black finish looks good in any home theater system).

Serenity (2005) is among the Launch Day titles (though I have no idea how well stocked BB actually is).

However, *because* there are so few HD DVD titles available, it will be the upconversion ability for standard DVD titles that will drive sales.

I'm going to have to pay a visit to the local BB (taking along a DVD or two) and put the upconversion through its paces.

PGHammer

04-21-06, 02:54 AM

What about the phone line hookup. It is necessary to play the discs?

That isn't RJ-11 (telco), but RJ-45 (Ethernet). It is not necessary for playback. However, it means you can at least control the beastie remotely via PC.

JaGWiRE

04-21-06, 02:55 AM

dssturbo1

04-21-06, 02:57 AM

no dvd-a or sacd.

Head Shot

04-21-06, 03:12 AM

I am tempted, I have yet to read up much, but I would like to know..

Do these players have the capability to play dvd-audio (mlp/etc) and sacd? If so, has any tested them out and tried the quality yet? I've been looking for a good dvd-a / sacd player, but they are close in price to this player themself, and I would much rather have this.

Yes it can. Sound dynamics is similar to DVD Audio player, too late in the night to test at higher volume for range and headroom.

Played the Santana Shaman on Denon 3803 mode set at auto, 6 channel analog input. Sweeet sound , thanks for the test idea. Now I have another good reason why I'm so happy to have bought this player. At first I had mixed feelings of having to displace the DVD Audio/SACD player for this Toshiba. Don't mind losing the SACD, don't have any of such titles anyway. Pardon me for gloating. ;)

JaGWiRE

04-21-06, 03:41 AM

Yes it can. Sound dynamics is similar to DVD Audio player, too late in the night to test at higher volume for range and headroom.

Played the Santana Shaman on Denon 3803 mode set at auto, 6 channel analog input. Sweeet sound , thanks for the test idea. Now I have another good reason why I'm so happy to have bought this player. At first I had mixed feelings of having to displace the DVD Audio/SACD player for this Toshiba. Don't mind losing the SACD, don't have any of such titles anyway. Pardon me for gloating. ;)

Ah, the guy above disagrees and says it can't play, but you do, and you tested it.

I wonder how it handles watermarks (well, if you were to rip your dvd-a like I do, and then try to burn it back to media.)

If it can do 6 channel analog input (ignoring DTS/DD), we should have a confirmed result that it is capable of dvd-a. I have the exact same dvd-a right beside me, and if I remember it is 96 khz/24bit on stereo. Does this player play it back in both stereo and 5.1 mode the same it would in a dvd-a player? Does the player have a mlp or dvd-a sign on it? And will it play SACD (probably the most difficult format to find a good player for.) I would love it if you did pick up something like dark side of the moon SACD and try it out for the sake of testing it, would be beautiful.

inkhead

04-21-06, 03:42 AM

JaGWiRE

04-21-06, 03:50 AM

If you ask me the player actually really, really sucks. It's a glorified computer complete with a BOOT UP TIME DELAY that's huge. I've had the privilege of playing with two a blu-ray test units and sample content and neither of these units acted like computers with bootup times. They played nearly instantly when inserted.

I'm taking this hd-dvd player back and waiting for blueray.

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say. You can't judge blu-ray yet because there is no product on the market yet, your simply testing beta or alpha products, which is just plain stupid.

Hey, take the xbox 360, I didn't see an improvement in loading times, but the graphics are much better.

BTW, what does the ethernet port on the toshiba player do?

Head Shot

04-21-06, 04:18 AM

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say. You can't judge blu-ray yet because there is no product on the market yet, your simply testing beta or alpha products, which is just plain stupid.

Hey, take the xbox 360, I didn't see an improvement in loading times, but the graphics are much better.

BTW, what does the ethernet port on the toshiba player do?

The port enables the use of acess to features specific to HD DVD discs that have special features such as movies with factoids, view and possibly purchase items mentioned or displayed on a movie, access data that couldn't be included in the disk.

Port also is used for firmware upgrade via broadband pathway

mfabien

04-21-06, 04:47 AM

WARNING TO ALL: I fired up the test tone while adjusting my Analog 5.1 and it was deafening. I had turned it down from reference by 10-15 db and it still was louder than I've ever played my speakers. Blew the tweeter on my floor speaker.

Should still be under warranty, but it's an inconvenience to say the least. Hopefully API will just hook me up with a replacement tweeter and instructions, I don't trust anyone in town to do it nor do I want to send it off.

There are two good reasons to use AVIA or DVE calibration DVDs as a first operation:

- Calibrate the Picture for the HDMI or DVI TV Input (as should be done for any new DVD player)

- To use the calibration DVD's test tones (instead of the player's test tones) to verify that the speaker settings and bass management in the HD-A1 are acceptable.

neverman

04-21-06, 06:15 AM

Jaxcomet

04-21-06, 07:26 AM

cmangeot

04-21-06, 07:47 AM

I have the HD-A1 connected to a VP30, sound to Pioneer 74TXVi, video to Sony SXRD. Connections are HDMI, except VP30-Pionner.
When viewing on hd-dvd I have a serious problem with sound (at least 30db below average dvd). With POTO, amplifier almost at max, it's barely audible. Sound is better on the trailers at the beginning of the movie (only 20db below average).
Is it just me ?

enchntr

04-21-06, 08:54 AM

Has anyone tried (programming) a different remote to use with the HD-A1?

Yup...programmed my Pronto TSU7000 and using RF with it as well (IR extender as my equipment is in my mechanical room behind the theater). Works flawlessly.

Ed

Mike Littrell

04-21-06, 09:06 AM

Jaxcomet

04-21-06, 09:15 AM

Has anyone purchased the Walmart version? (HD-D1)

Looks like it's now in stock.........

Bill C.

04-21-06, 09:32 AM

It may only be available online from them right now...I think I'm going to make a run over to Wally World, Costco and Sam's Club this morning and make sure...

Iamjcl

04-21-06, 09:33 AM

Waaaaaaaahh!!! :rolleyes: Somebody call the wambulance.

I pretty much agree with the OP - I'm keeping mine because its the only option ATM (PQ is pretty strong), but it IS pretty much a piece, IMO, all other things considered.

- Chris

DaViD Boulet

04-21-06, 09:47 AM

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say. You can't judge blu-ray yet because there is no product on the market yet, your simply testing beta or alpha products, which is just plain stupid.

It's not stupid. YES you're right that beta units don't tell you the final word...but it's highly unlikely that if the beta units perform to a given level, that the final product will perform to a *lesser* level. Generally, the final product performs even better than the beta.

digitalfx

04-21-06, 09:47 AM

John Ballentine

04-21-06, 09:50 AM

I am really surprised this is not getting more attention. This new player is missing much of the audio improvement promised by this new format.

And this is the sole reason I have decided not to buy the HD-A1. I was really excited about the new sound options. Sound is every bit as important to me as picture quality. I was hoping to get back some of that good laserdisc sound I gave up when I moved over to DVD. Guess I'll have to wait and see what future HD-DVD players or blu-ray have to offer in this regard. I still have hope.

This kinda reminds me of buying the Sony 7000 (@ $1000.!) just after DVD's launch. And then just a few months later being told "the 7000 is incapable of outputing DTS" You'll have to buy a (another) new machine. Which I did 6 months later. Don't want to repeat that mistake.

Ktulu_1

04-21-06, 09:59 AM

And this is the sole reason I have decided not to buy the HD-A1.

Ok good post. Lets get back on topic - First End User Reports!

Kadath

04-21-06, 09:59 AM

So, what are you guys doing with the remotes that dont work on down arrows? I want mine replaced, what are my options? Even if I had a Harmony or the like, I cant resell this unit with a DEFECTIVE remote.

Sam

mpalmieri1203

04-21-06, 10:03 AM

Well if the remote operates in a substandard way thats the way that it operates. Perhaps you could get in touch with Toshiba so they could replace it for you. I myself solved my problem with the Harmony....I didn't even put the batteries in the Toshiba remote.

umr

04-21-06, 10:07 AM

And this is the sole reason I have decided not to buy the HD-A1. I was really excited about the new sound options. Sound is every bit as important to me as picture quality. I was hoping to get back some of that good laserdisc sound I gave up when I moved over to DVD. Guess I'll have to wait and see what future HD-DVD players or blu-ray have to offer in this regard. I still have hope.

This kinda reminds me of buying the Sony 7000 (@ $1000.!) just after DVD's launch. And then just a few months later being told "the 7000 is incapable of outputing DTS" You'll have to buy a (another) new machine. Which I did 6 months later. Don't want to repeat that mistake.

I had the 7000 as well so I understand your feelings on this. It was a fine player, the lack of DTS was a real disappointment. I am sure the Toshiba HD-DVD player sounds better than current DVD's. Core DTS is very good and higher bit rate DD is also an improvement, but I want to here the master recording not a facsimile. I have had the good fortune of being able to hear a movie master in a rerecording mixing facility. The quality of the 24 bit/48 kHz master that I heard was much better than what I have heard from any other movie source we have. I won't be purchasing anything either until this is fixed.

SJHT

04-21-06, 10:16 AM

raidbuck

04-21-06, 10:18 AM

nirvana_av

04-21-06, 10:52 AM

I saw the A1 at BB yesterday. I asked if they could demo it, and they hooked it up. I couldn't see TLS because they told me they couldn't show a movie (copywright issues), only their HD-DVD Demo Disk. And there wasn't a WOW difference, although certainly the HD side was clearer and the colors brighter. The sound on the Demo disk didn't work. I was surprised that the Demo disk SD was actually just the HD graphically dumbed down (their disclosure).
Anyway, no doubt I will get one of these, possibly soon, maybe at 2nd generation time.

Rich N.

I too saw a demo at BB yesterday. It was displayed on a large Sony Bravia LCD. They too were only showing the demo HD-DVD. However, I thought the picture was outstanding. The part where they do the simulated comparison depicted the worst I've seen in SD-DVD against some spectacular HD so the difference was quite dramatic. There was sound, but it was very difficult to gauge the quality on this setup. I have an A1 on order and can't wait until my source ships my unit.

nx211

04-21-06, 11:12 AM

And this is the sole reason I have decided not to buy the HD-A1. I was really excited about the new sound options. Sound is every bit as important to me as picture quality. I was hoping to get back some of that good laserdisc sound I gave up when I moved over to DVD. Guess I'll have to wait and see what future HD-DVD players or blu-ray have to offer in this regard. I still have hope.

This kinda reminds me of buying the Sony 7000 (@ $1000.!) just after DVD's launch. And then just a few months later being told "the 7000 is incapable of outputing DTS" You'll have to buy a (another) new machine. Which I did 6 months later. Don't want to repeat that mistake.

I was wanting that Sony 7000 when I first saw the adds for it. Killer looks, not to mention its performance. It used Sony's own, in-house MPEG Decoder which was considered to be one of the best at the time ($2k level & below). But in the reviews of the unit that I read, I became aware of its lack of DTS so I just waited for its replacement, the Sony 7700 and picked that one up instead. I didn't want to jump in right away becuase of the potential that Divx DVD players posed. Wanted to see how that was going to shake out first.

But you know, you can't really win, although the Sony 7700 can detect and pass the DTS bitstream, it uses a LSI decoder which is considered inferior to the Sony decoder used in the 7000. The Sony 7700 suffers from the Chroma Upsampling Bug. It can be very irritating at times and unbelievably, even the Sony 9000ES suffers from it as well.

nx211

nx211

04-21-06, 11:18 AM

Hah! I bought the same unit (sony 7000) and also had to buy another unit (DTS). and then they came out with progressive scan (had to buy another unit), and then they added SACD (had to buy another unit) and then......... I think there must be a lesson here somewhere :)

I wish that I could afford to do that trick. :p

nx211

Paul H

04-21-06, 11:22 AM

Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports!

This is a big thread that has way too much garbage. First End Uer's ONLY and Please stay on TOPIC.

Thank you

PLB

04-21-06, 11:24 AM

The HD-DVD and/or the Blu-Ray machines are the final/ultimate in image quality because they are at or near human vision limits.

DLP Cinema has almost exactly the same resolution as HDTV. DLP Cinema is currently at what is called 2K (two thousand pixels of horizontal resolution). HDTV of 1080i/p (vertical resolution) is 1920 pixels wide horizontally - virtually the same. The next generation of DLP Cinema is supposed to be 4K, however it may never be widely installed because 2K is already much better than film projection and 4K takes 4 times the bandwidth and 4 times the storage of 2K.

If you are rich you could, I suppose, install a Barco or Christie commercial 2K projector in your home, but unless you also have a 50 foot screen at home it should be indistinguishable from one of the new 1080 DLP HT projectors. In fact a 4K projector probably can not be distinguished from a 2K projector on a typical 10 foot HT screen. Human eyes just aren't that good.

If I'm right about all this, then the best possible HT resolution projectors are here now. Unfortunately they are still pricey, but that should change. It also means that the medium for delivering that ultimate resolution image is also here with the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disk.

A VHS tape showed at best about 240 lines of resolution. A DVD doubled that. Now the HD-DVD has doubled that again. Some reviewers complain that they can't see a huge improvement. Of course they can't! First of all some are watching on tiny 24" ot 32" screens. But mostly its just diminishing returns.

Consider doubling the resolution of an HD-DVD again and then again. This will be technically possible some day but does anyone think they will be able to see the difference? We are on an asymtotic approach path to human limits here.

This has happened before. Forty years ago hand held calculators got smaller and added mathematical functions. Every year they got smaller and more powerful. Then that progress ceased - buttons got smaller than fingers and the functions began to exceed the math knowledge of all but a very few customers. Progress stopped. Today's calculators are little differnt from those of a couple decades ago.

Similarly, CDs can capture high frequencies out to about 24khz. CDs are old technology. Today it should be possible to extend that limit out to a couple hundred thousand hertz. Of course, as everyone knows, all the super-CD formats have failed commercially probably because most adult male customer's ears roll off sharply above 12khz.

Finally, let me mention another human limit - ass time. Although it will be possible some time soon to increase the capacity of a shiny disc several fold - this won't matter. An HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disk can show a couple hours of ultimate quality video now. Just because you can put a six to ten hour movie on a single disk doesn't mean anyone will want to see it that way. The Ring of the Neibelungens or The Lord of the Rings will sell just fine on separate disks. Nor will a disk that has ten movies on it be attractive. Already hard disk based music servers like the I-Pod exist that can hold very large numbers of songs. These devices supplant the clunky previous generation CD changers. There will probably never be HD-DVD/Blu-Ray changers or a sucessor multi-movie disc format.

The winner of the HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray competion will be the the last such medium. We had the

flat 78
vinyl 33 LP
Phillips Compact Cassette
Music CD
DVD
HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.

There were a few other formats like the Edison Roll, the forty five, and the eight track but the main stream had only those six. That list is now complete. Henceforth content will be delivered to a consumer wirelessly or over optical fiber from a menu.

DaViD Boulet

04-21-06, 11:26 AM

I am sure the Toshiba HD-DVD player sounds better than current DVD's. Core DTS is very good and higher bit rate DD is also an improvement, but I want to here the master recording not a facsimile. I have had the good fortune of being able to hear a movie master in a rerecording mixing facility. The quality of the 24 bit/48 kHz master that I heard was much better than what I have heard from any other movie source we have. I won't be purchasing anything either until this is fixed.

Amen!

The HD-DVD and/or the Blu-Ray machines are the final/ultimate in image quality because they are at or near human vision limits.

That's simply not true....though a very commonly propogated myth.

From 1 screen-width distance (what many people view in a theater), a GOOD 35mm print still has better resolution and color information than a 2-K digital (1080P) image. The only reason why 2-K is "good enough" for digital projection is because it compares favorably with "typical" 35mm prints which are often duplicated in a manner that doesn't even come close to the film meduim's potential.

And if anyone thinks that at a 1-screen-width distance 2K comes anywhere near the limits of human vision, then they need corrective lenses. 70mm and 4K look noticably clearer.

If you have a human being stand next to your 1080P projection screen and you compare the perceived detail in their face with that of a same-sized image projected on the screen, your eyes will see more detail in the real object. Your eyes are better than 1080P at 1-screen width.

1080P is fantastic. But it's not "perfect" in comparison to human vision.

nx211

04-21-06, 11:45 AM

I had the 7000 as well so I understand your feelings on this. It was a fine player, the lack of DTS was a real disappointment. I am sure the Toshiba HD-DVD player sounds better than current DVD's. Core DTS is very good and higher bit rate DD is also an improvement, but I want to here the master recording not a facsimile. I have had the good fortune of being able to hear a movie master in a rerecording mixing facility. The quality of the 24 bit/48 kHz master that I heard was much better than what I have heard from any other movie source we have. I won't be purchasing anything either until this is fixed.

I'm in no rush either. Personally, I'm waiting on the Sony Blu-ray player. But honestly, you really need to match any Hi-Def player with a widescreen display capable of displaying the full 1920x1080 HD resolution to really see either formats full potential.

nx211

nx211

04-21-06, 11:49 AM

Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports!

This is a big thread that has way too much garbage. First End Uer's ONLY and Please stay on TOPIC.

Thank you

If you haven't figured *it* out by now, then *you've* got a comprehension problem chief.
;)

nx211

fafner

04-21-06, 11:58 AM

I setup my HD-A1 last night and am blown away at both the image and audio quality. TLS was outstanding; colors were vidid, details were amazing, screen was sharp, no artifacts whatsoever. Sound was likewise better than anything I have ever heard on my system. To test for performance with sd dvd's, I poped in Moulin Rouge (one of my reference dvd's) and the video especially knocked my socks off....I compared to my Toshiba 9200 Reference Model DVD player and a more recent Samsung unit. I would have payed $499 just for the quality I get on sd dvd's.

Two problems noted: First,I got no sound with HMDI sound set to Auto on sd dvd's. HD dvd's sound was fine. Changed HMDI sound option to PCM and sound now works great on both kinds of disks. This is recommended in the manual. The Denon 3806 identified the input simply as "multi-channel" Does anyone know if the sound quality is actually the same for both the auto and PCM settings.

Second, I am having trouble playing some of my burned dvd's in either +R or -R format. I get "disk error" on some but not all. I am trying to narrow down what is different between ones that play and ones that don't but I have no clue so far. Anyone have any ideas?

BTW, just found this fourm a few days ago. It is a great place to find to share info. I am sure I will be back a lot.

fafner

Aaron Davis

04-21-06, 12:11 PM

Second, I am having trouble playing some of my burned dvd's in either +R or -R format. I get "disk error" on some but not all. I am trying to narrow down what is different between ones that play and ones that don't but I have no clue so far. Anyone have any ideas?

I had a few problems with burned discs that weren't finalized.

Jaxcomet

04-21-06, 12:19 PM

b2bonez

04-21-06, 12:24 PM

The "First Retail Sightings" thread is gone, soooo...

Went down to Wallyword to check if they had and HD-DVD discs or players..

Zip, nada.

Didn't ask about it, because asking questions at WM can be damaging to your mental health. ;)

b2b

(P.S. They didn't have any tomato cages either, the real purpose for the trip in the first place :( )

Rich4av

04-21-06, 12:24 PM

I don't remember seeing this so I apologize if it's been answered. Is there a way to use HDMI audio with component output? That would be the best combination right now.

When I select component out, the HDMI audio goes silent. I have tried menu options but could not get it to work. Anyone got this working?

bferr1

04-21-06, 12:33 PM

Rich4av, you need to use one method or the other, but not both at the same time. There is no way to toggle HDMI video off and pass only audio.

PLASMATU

04-21-06, 12:52 PM

Umm what? Its part of the HD-DVD spec, it has to have HDCP, there is no option. Anyone who makes an HD-DVD player has to use HDCP over digital connection. The HDMI errors are people with HDCP compliant displays, there are just some incompatibilities. Yes this sucks, but it still doesnt change the fact that HDCP is required.

jeez why u dont stop arguin with me an test it or let somebody that owns the player do it and see if they did implement it I know the hdcp hd-dvd/br specs thats not the point .

CAN somebody try an h dmi to dvi cable and see if it works ?

Would be top notch if the dvi monitor/telly isnt hdcp compatible too ! Think its

pretty interesting for many havin dvi non hdcp complaint plasma etc etc ! (here

got a 42pma500e plasma paid 2000€ dvi non hdcp compatible),

I think that HD chinese players ll come savin me but meanwhile I just dont want

to use component OVER dvi!

- - - - - - > PLEASE SOMEBODY DO TEST THAT ! <- - - - -

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THAT

Aaron Davis

04-21-06, 12:58 PM

jeez why u dont stop arguin with me an test it or let somebody that owns the player do it and see if they did implement it I know the hdcp hd-dvd/br specs thats not the point .

CAN somebody try an h dmi to dvi cable and see if it works ?

Would be top notch if the dvi monitor/telly isnt hdcp compatible too ! Think its

pretty interesting for many havin dvi non hdcp complaint plasma etc etc ! (here

got a 42pma500e plasma paid 2000€ dvi non hdcp compatible),

I think that HD chinese players ll come savin me but meanwhile I just dont want

to use component OVER dvi!

- - - - - - > PLEASE SOMEBODY DO TEST THAT ! <- - - - -

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO THAT

They can't implement it, its against the HD-DVD specs, do you not understand that?? Digital video wont work without HDCP, thats it. There is no other answer!