It appears my Panny ES-20 missed a scheduled recording last night. Had a DVD-RAM set for 4hr LP mode. I started with a pre-existing program on the disc and also had 2hr 1min time still available. I had recorded a 2hr program Tues & all was OK. I watched it & erased it. This gave me back the 2hr 1 min time available.

I set the unit to record another 2hr program on Wed. But it did not record. I checked the timer & the 2 hr scheduled recording was still showing, however it displayed the "!" instead of "OK" which I sure thought was there when I set things up. And it still shows I have 2hr 1min remaining. So why didn't it record?? It worked Tues but not Wed.

I deleted the non-recorded schedule & entered another 2 hr recording & it says "OK". I guess I'll have to see what happens.

I've seen the "!" character when there was not sufficient space on a disc, and this was in my older Panasonic. This is only happened once though.

I've seen the "!" character when there was not sufficient space on a disc, and this was in my older Panasonic. This is only happened once though.


That's when I've seen it also. But mine still indicated there was 2hr 1min available. So the 2hr program should have fit. It worked the day before & it worked again this morning in a trial run. So I wondered - did I really turn off the recorder? I could swear I did, but who knows. I usually turn off the recorder before I turn off the TV. This way I see the TV go black, confirming the recorder is off.

Anyway I later tried a short scheduled recording, but did not turn off the recorder. Obviously it did not record. However the schedule was still in memory, but now with "!" displayed. Same symptoms as when the 2hr program was missed. So it makes me think I never turned off the machine. I hate to think I forgot such a step, but better this than a recorder malfunction that may crop up at any time. I'll just have to make sure I turn it off & keep an eye on things.

The problem with the Panasonic "!" is that it does not give us any detailed information on what it thinks the problem is. They use "!" for everything that may be wrong. Since something triggers the "!", it would be nice if Panasonic passed the potential error message along so the user can take action or try and figure it out.

Multi-timer recording reliability does not seem to be one of the strong suits of the ES20 from what people are saying. I don't have a lot of personal experience with that issue since most of my timer recordings are offloading from DVR or VHS or RF games or marathons to a single DVD, as opposed to multiple recordings per DVD. I think most (if not all) my timer problems have been media related.

I haven't had any problems with multi-timer recordings on the ES20. I had to travel for work at the beginning of February and set the machine to record on four consecutive nights. All programs recorded fine.

I haven't had any problems with multi-timer recordings on the ES20. I had to travel for work at the beginning of February and set the machine to record on four consecutive nights. All programs recorded fine.

I had a couple of problems with the quality of the recording and learned not to use FR in scheduled recordings to fit in the last program on a fairly full disk. The quality started out great then deteriorated into almost unwatchable at the end.

It is best to stick with a fixed "speed". So for general viewing (view once on my 27" analog and delete) I use LP, but for my projector (up to 100") I use SP. See no difference between SP and direct from the tuner and it is a quantum improvement over VHS tapes, even at LP. I have had not problem with recording at a fixed speed over three or more nights.

This sounds like a problem I've discovered...however, it takes a bit of explanation....I will try to explain though.

I have two shows I schedule to record every day from 4 - 4:30 am and 11 - 11:30 am.

I also have programs that are recorded on certain days of the week. Let's take Monday: 7-7:30 pm and 8-9 pm.

Today my Schedule looks like:

4-4:30 5/8
11-11:30 5/8
7-7:30 5/8
8-9 5/8


Here's the situation:

I start out the day with 3.5 hours left on the DVD-Ram in LP mode (I have a 30 minute show that was left from the weekend). For Monday I have a total of 2.5 hours of recording to be done. Seems like this would be enough right? Wrong!

It records the 4 am and 11 am shows. So now I have 1.5 hours taken on the DVD and 2.5 left and only 1.5 hours of shows left to record. However, when I get home I find that it only recorded the 7-7:30 show and _not_ the 8-9 pm show. Why? There wasn't enough room on the disk (which the manual says the "!" means). It took me a while to figure out why something like this would happen..... What I found out, in my opinion, points to a programing issue.

When the machine goes to record the 8-9pm program it first checks to see if it has enough room on the disk. So, it has 2 hours left for a 1 hour program. Good so far. However, for some odd reason, it also takes into account the programs that were sheduled earlier in the day...meaning that the machine thought it _needed_ 3 hours on the DVD...The machine looks at all of the scheduling for the day...even though it had already recorded the shows. The math looks like this:

Machine: Oh..I see it is 8 pm and there's a scheduled program. Let's see if there's enough room on the disk:

Room on Disk = 2 hours
Room needed for the shedule = 30m (4-4:30) + 30m (11 - 11:30) + 30m (7-7:30) + 1h (8-9) = 2.5 hours need on disk. Since there was only 2 hours, it doesn't record at all!!!

When I discovered it didn't record the 8-9 pm shows I took a look at my scheule. Now it looks like:

"Time left in LP Mode: 2 hours"

4-4:30 5/8
11-11:30 5/8
7 - 7:30 5/8
8-9 !

Hopefully this has made some sense. What has happened is that instead of recording the 4 am, 11 am and 7 pm shows and then increasing the "next time to record" to the next day, the schedule seems to think it needs to keep some free space on the disk because it has yet to record those shows. Since they are all earlier than the 8-9 pm schedule the machine simply decides not to record the show.

I realize this may not make any sense, but I have been able to repeat the behavior _on demand_.

What I've done is try to remember to delete the 4 am and 11 am programing and try to remember to add it back in later in the evening. I believe there is a problem, but I struggle to find an easy way to communicate what exactly is going on....perhaps someone on here can test this out to see if they discover the same behavior.

All I know is that, for example, tonight an hour show wasn't recorded even though there was plenty of room on the DVD because the recorder thought there wasn't enough room....For a long time I was like the original poster and thought I hadn't turned off the machine....

One other point, the problem is worse when you have several programs scheduled for the _same_day. There's a good chance that it won't record the later shows because of this issue.

One other point, the problem is worse when you have several programs scheduled for the _same_day. There's a good chance that it won't record the later shows because of this issue.

I had this problem when I entered a scheduled program to record weekly. The program time was past but the schedule display indicated it was scheduled to record that day and cut down the time left for later recordings. I reset it several times but it still showed that it was going to record the show no matter what I thought. And it shortened the time I actually had left on the disk with a ! after one of the next days scheduled programs.

Also, it displayed at the bottom of the scheduled recordings, so the schedule was correct, in that it would be the last scheduled recording, but the date of the scheduled recording (in the far right box, --> 5/4) was that days date and the time had passed.

However, I had plenty of room on the disk for all the additional shows that day and the next, so left it alone. It did record the show for that day and all was normal the next, so I thought it was just a problem if you scheduled a weekly show on the same day.

If, however, it is a glitch in the 20, then,if there had been room but not enough to "record" the earlier show that had been recorded as well as those for that day, I could have run into the problem.

Since then, I have checked the schedule daily, and have not had the problem, so it may be related to weekly schedules. When you enter another program on the same day and the weekly has already recorded or vice versa. The weekly I entered was a 12am, which was midnight/am on the same day. The schedule showed -->5/4 so it "thought" it was going to record it even though the time had passed.

This could be related to the known glitch with recording over 12am. The ES-20 may have problems handling 12am.

Interesting observations! I'll try to reproduce them as well.

Most of my Timer recordings have been one Timer recording per DVD. Even if I had multiple listings in the Timer, the next scheduled recording would be on a different DVD. This is mainly because I offload from DVR or fill up a DVD (eg movie or sports) or put a show on its own episodic DVD.

Interesting observations! I'll try to reproduce them as well.

Most of my Timer recordings have been one Timer recording per DVD. Even if I had multiple listings in the Timer, the next scheduled recording would be on a different DVD. This is mainly because I offload from DVR or fill up a DVD (eg movie or sports) or put a show on its own episodic DVD.

My normal method, also, so will not see the problem once everything is set up.

It is reproducible. Enter a program for later in the day and one for the next day. Then enter several weekly programs for earlier the same day. I used LP and one hour programs.

You will see two things. First, all programs that are before the actual time will show up at the end of the schedule as they should, since their time is a week away, but indicate they will be recorded today (-->5/9)!

The next is the time remaining for recording the next days programs will decrease by the time needed for the early scheduled programs, even though they will not be recorded for a week.

So the recorder can believe what it shows on the schedule and not record later shows that day even if there is plenty of time left on the disk.

What is interesting is that the recorder will clear the error the next day and work just fine. So if you only have one other program scheduled and it shows Ok, then no problem, even if there is not enough time for the next days programs, since there will be the next day!

I've consistently had the same problems recording weekly LP shows when multiple shows are scheduled for the same day. Is there any timeframe as to when Panisonic plans to issue a fix to this MAJOR bug? For those of us who use our DVD recorders like a TIVO it's extremely inconvenient!

I just tried it over night. I had 3 hours left and recorded a two hour weekly scheduled show this am. Now it indicates the am show will still be recorded and ! appears after all the other scheduled shows. The weekly is at the end of the list and is still active and can be recorded, even though it is a week away. I should have had one hour left and the next program was one hour.

I changed the day of the prior recorded program and got back the hour it took away.

So, and I will test this, if you use the weekly or daily schedule feature, you must have enough capacity on the disk to record not just the shows planned for the day, but have to add time enough to record the early ones again, even though they will not be recorded. This is not an issue with record once shows, only with weekly or daily scheduled shows.

The test: Formatted DVD-RAM. One 2 hour show on LP recorded weekly this am and still shows active. Two weekly recordings on SP, the first is one hour thirty minutes and the second 28 min, so should record both on a formatted disk. Gets interesting here. I should have only 1 hour of SP since the schedule shows 2 hours of LP (the already recorded program), but it shows the 1 1/2 hour SP ok and the 1/2 hour ! on the schedule. But the time remaining indicator in the display shows 2 hours available in SP, which is correct, but the schedule itself says otherwise. The time available indicators in all other displays show 2 hours. We shall see if it records both show correctly. My guess is it will not.

The ES-20 only recorded the first program and not the second. At the end of the first program, the recorder displayed 30 min remaining on SP, but did not record the 30 min SP program.

The schedule showed all ! except the first program recorded.

This is a bad bug and my guess it is in the ES 15 also. It is the kind of error that will only show up infrequently, especially for those who do not use weekly or daily recording, and even then it would be an unlikely problem since you have to have several programs scheduled for that day. Usually, most of us have a new disk in so the next day the machine will clear the problem and record fine. It will not show up (at least to be noticed) on a HD Panny unless it is near full.

So...what does one do about getting this issue resolved? Since it is a repeatable problem I would think the Pan. would be able to get it resolved. Does anyone know if this _is_ a problem on the ES15?

I have the same problem and it's driving me nuts! I called Panasonic a month ago and the tech was aware of the problem. He said he would mail me a Firmware Update that would fix the problem. In the mean time he said to eject the disk, turn the recorder off, turn back on and put the same disk back in. He said it would think it was a *new disk* and reset the timer recordings. That didn't work and he never sent me the Firmware CD! How could you do that anyway with three or four back to back timer recordings?

So, I downloaded the U3-150 Firmware dated 12/02/2005, which says it fixes this problem and updated the ES20, no luck. I tried the udate a couple more times without luck. Supposedly, if it has the current Firmware you should get an "Unsupport" on the front panel, meaning you already have the same or newer Firmware. That didn't show on the three updates. The latest instructions say to "Unplug the AC power for about 30 seconds, then plug it back in" I will try that and post back.

I think ncaahoops said there is a Canadian Firmware update ES20PC_U3152 for the ES20 dated 1/24/06, which also fixes the timer recording problems. ncaahoops if you installed the Canadian Firmware and it fixes the timer recording problem, please post back. I downloaded that one too, but I am chicken and waiting for the CD after another call to CS this week. What a pain GRRR!

HTH, Pat

I recall previous messages which sounded like the same problem. Where the unit was scheduled for 2 or 3 programs a day, and repeated for a week. However the last program never recorded. You may be experiencing the same problem, if I'm understanding it correctly. You might search this or other threads. Something tells me someone tried scheduling a one minute "dummy" program as the last program. So if skipped this, no big deal. Just a thought, even thou you should not have to do this.

I previously set up my ES20 to test this, but all recorded OK. However I only used test programs of 5 minutes or so. Perhaps since I used such short programs the machine figured I had all kind of free disc space, which I did.

On a different "bug" problem, Panasonic USA sent me firmware U3-152, which was not yet on the USA web site. But Panny USA had the discs & said sometimes the site does not get updated promptly. I did install U3-152, however it did not fix the "bug" that needed fixing.

You might see if U3-152 fixes your problem though.

Now there is another firmware update Panny is working on for the scheduled FR mode bug that some of us have experienced, including ncaahoops. Maybe this will correct the weekly timer problem also. I dunno. Hopefully I'll have this new version in a couple weeks & will post the results.

Mike

Mike, the 5-minute test doesn't do this. It's when I try to use it like I should be able to, with four 1-hour timer scheduled shows that my "bug" appears.

I re-checked what the tech told me and I think with your problem, try opening the tray, remove the RAM disk, close the tray, open the tray again and put the RAM disk back in. Supposedly, the tech said some how it resets the remaining time thinking its a new disk. Apparently, with your problem even though you deleted that 2-hours, the ES20 doesn't seem to know it when it comes to timer/scheduled recordings? Then rub your belly and hop up and down on your right leg...

All of the reported "Bugs" are basic stuff, that a mature unit like this shouldn't have!
HTH, Pat

What's the link where one can get the firmware updates you guys keep mentioning?

Thanks!

Dave.

I think ncaahoops said there is a Canadian Firmware update ES20PC_U3152 for the ES20 dated 1/24/06, which also fixes the timer recording problems. ncaahoops if you installed the Canadian Firmware and it fixes the timer recording problem, please post back. I downloaded that one too, but I am chicken and waiting for the CD after another call to CS this week. What a pain GRRR!
HTH, Pat

I haven't installed any firmware updates yet, but some other forum users have. But i dont recall who installed which version.

The firmware updates do not seem to fix any of the problems I have with my usage patterns, so I have not installed any of them.

Panasonic told me NOT to install the Canadian firmware.

Even thou the version number is the same as the USA version, the software is different. And any problems that may be the result of this may NOT be reversible.

Please wait for the latest version that Panasonic is working on.

Mike

Panasonic told me NOT to install the Canadian firmware.

Even thou the version number is the same as the USA version, the software is different. And any problems that may be the result of this may NOT be reversible.

Please wait for the latest version that Panasonic is working on.

Mike

Mike, Thanks for that tip! I was getting close to burning the Canadian version to CD and trying the update, but was afraid of making my new toy a doorstop :)

FYI, the US Firmware version is U3-150 dated 12/02/2005 and the extracted file is PANA_DVD.FRM. The Canadian version is U3-152, which is a different and presumably newer version number and extracts an ISO file ES20PC_U3152.iso dated 1/24/2006. Obviously a newer file/firmware. I assume the PC in the file name refers it being the Canadian version from Panasonic Canada.

I wish they would get this firmware fix out there ASAP as it now appears with the new ES15 and ES25 coming out the ES20 will soon, if not already, be EOL with no new updates :mad:
Thanks, Pat

Mike, Thanks for that tip! I was getting close to burning the Canadian version to CD and trying the update, but was afraid of making my new toy a doorstop :)

FYI, the US Firmware version is U3-150 dated 12/02/2005 and the extracted file is PANA_DVD.FRM. The Canadian version is U3-152, which is a different and presumably newer version number and extracts an ISO file ES20PC_U3152.iso dated 1/24/2006. Obviously a newer file/firmware. I assume the PC in the file name refers it being the Canadian version from Panasonic Canada.

I wish they would get this firmware fix out there ASAP as it now appears with the new ES15 and ES25 coming out the ES20 will soon, if not already, be EOL with no new updates :mad:
Thanks, Pat

If you call Panasonic's customer service number, they will mail you the USA U3-152 version. That's how I got mine. The person I spoke with at that time was not sure which version was shipping because the discs were sent from a different dept. However I did get the latest, and I received it in only a few days.

Mike

Panasonic told me NOT to install the Canadian firmware.

Even thou the version number is the same as the USA version, the software is different. And any problems that may be the result of this may NOT be reversible.

Please wait for the latest version that Panasonic is working on.

Mike

Why would the Canadian version be any different? We share the same voltage (110 volt 60 Hz) and the same TV system (NTSC). Many US television feeds are also aired on Canadian cable networks.

About the only thing I can think of that the Canadian version would have is the menu language be available in French (due to Canadian law), but that in itself shouldn't affect its usability.

Ejecting and inserting the old DVD to fool the panny does not work. I had a clean, formated DVD-RAM and the ES-20 failed to record the second 1 hour show on LP! (Anyone got Thursdays CSI?)

I have a suspicion that the problem is not just with weekly or daily scheduled recordings but any scheduled recordings. You have to check the schedule before every recording session to see if the bug will kill any programs that should record, even if you have new media and plenty of room for that days schedule. Dumb problem for a recorder.

Why would the Canadian version be any different? We share the same voltage (110 volt 60 Hz) and the same TV system (NTSC). Many US television feeds are also aired on Canadian cable networks.

About the only thing I can think of that the Canadian version would have is the menu language be available in French (due to Canadian law), but that in itself shouldn't affect its usability.

I don't know the details, but a Panasonic engineer warned me about this.

I don't know the details, but a Panasonic engineer warned me about this.


Was this person an Electronics Engineer or a "Customer Service Engineer"? :D

If you call Panasonic's customer service number, they will mail you the USA U3-152 version. That's how I got mine. The person I spoke with at that time was not sure which version was shipping because the discs were sent from a different dept. However I did get the latest, and I received it in only a few days.

Mike

Mike, After two calls and one email in 45-days, I finally got the firmware disk in the mail today. :) The letter says nothing about the firmware, the jiffy bag says D013 DRM-ES20, the CD simply says DMR-ES20 Firmware Upgrade (no version). The CD has the PANA_DVD.FRM file dated 1/23/06, which is newer than the web site's U3-150 dated 12/02/2005. My ES20 says it already has D0000013 or something close to that. I think you can check it by going into Setup>Display and then pressing Display on the remote. Some report it doesn't change the version after an update?

I will try it later today and post back. Right now I'm doing a 2:15 FR mode recording to RAM to see if my ES20 has the same problem reported in another thread "Can't copy movie recorded with FR?".
Thanks, Pat

Ejecting and inserting the old DVD to fool the panny does not work. I had a clean, formated DVD-RAM and the ES-20 failed to record the second 1 hour show on LP! (Anyone got Thursdays CSI?)

I have a suspicion that the problem is not just with weekly or daily scheduled recordings but any scheduled recordings. You have to check the schedule before every recording session to see if the bug will kill any programs that should record, even if you have new media and plenty of room for that days schedule. Dumb problem for a recorder.

Sorry to hear that didn't work. I tried a newly formated RAM disk and setup four 1-hour shows to record back to back. All showed OK! Of course the last show never recorded, because it said it had to record the first show still! :mad:

(Anyone got Thursdays CSI?) That sucks. Sorry not here, lightning storm knocked out cable at 8:06 and didn't come back on till 11:30. Missed them ALL, ES20 and TiVo! :mad: Anybody need six minutes of My Name is Earl :D
Thanks, Pat

Was this person an Electronics Engineer or a "Customer Service Engineer"? :D

As far as I know, an EE. He called me from their Engineering Dept regarding the scheduled timer FR mode bug.

I will try it later today and post back.
Thanks, Pat

Well I installed the new firmware and tried to do four 1-hour timer recordings and of course the last one didn't record. :mad: I called CS who never heard of this problem. She took down the information on my timer recording schedule and what didn't record. She said she would send it to that Product Department and they should call me in 48-hours. We will see.

She said the latest US firmware was U3-150, which we know is older. She said the firmware fix for scheduling problems was if you scheduled more than one weekly recording for say 8:00 PM the first one would record, but the second one would not. I never had or heard of that problem though.
Thanks, Pat

Mike, After two calls and one email in 45-days, I finally got the firmware disk in the mail today. :) The letter says nothing about the firmware, the jiffy bag says D013 DRM-ES20, the CD simply says DMR-ES20 Firmware Upgrade (no version). The CD has the PANA_DVD.FRM file dated 1/23/06, which is newer than the web site's U3-150 dated 12/02/2005. My ES20 says it already has D0000013 or something close to that. I think you can check it by going into Setup>Display and then pressing Display on the remote. Some report it doesn't change the version after an update?

I will try it later today and post back. Right now I'm doing a 2:15 FR mode recording to RAM to see if my ES20 has the same problem reported in another thread "Can't copy movie recorded with FR?".
Thanks, Pat

If I recall, either the disc I received or the sleeve it was in was properly labeled. But I have to pull it out & check. At the moment I guessing since the one you received has a newer date than the one available on the web site, that you have the latest. I'll check later to see how my disc is labeled.

Well I installed the new firmware and tried to do four 1-hour timer recordings and of course the last one didn't record. :mad: I called CS who never heard of this problem. She took down the information on my timer recording schedule and what didn't record. She said she would send it to that Product Department and they should call me in 48-hours. We will see.

She said the latest US firmware was U3-150, which we know is older. She said the firmware fix for scheduling problems was if you scheduled more than one weekly recording for say 8:00 PM the first one would record, but the second one would not. I never had or heard of that problem though.
Thanks, Pat

I tried three 1-hour timer recordings on Saturday and all recorder properly. I had set to do a repeat on Sat only. Tonight I'll set the timer to do a Mon-Fri weekly repeat and enter four 1-hour programs for Tues early morning hours. That way I can check later in the day to see what happened.

Mike

can some one load the frimware from the disk pany sent or email it to me,
I am having these same problems and my wife is about to kill the dvd player, I am also and really don't want to have to go back to vhs. When it works it works great but man it is so buggy for being something that should just work, my other sony equip. is all fast and solid, this one feels like I never know when its going to crash or just not work.
Thanks

can some one load the frimware from the disk pany sent or email it to me,
I am having these same problems and my wife is about to kill the dvd player, I am also and really don't want to have to go back to vhs. When it works it works great but man it is so buggy for being something that should just work, my other sony equip. is all fast and solid, this one feels like I never know when its going to crash or just not work.
Thanks

The best bet is to call Panasonic & have them send you the disc direct. That way there will be no mistake in burning the software to a CD-R. I received my disc in just a few days.

Mike, After two calls and one email in 45-days, I finally got the firmware disk in the mail today. :) The letter says nothing about the firmware, the jiffy bag says D013 DRM-ES20, the CD simply says DMR-ES20 Firmware Upgrade (no version). The CD has the PANA_DVD.FRM file dated 1/23/06, which is newer than the web site's U3-150 dated 12/02/2005. My ES20 says it already has D0000013 or something close to that. I think you can check it by going into Setup>Display and then pressing Display on the remote. Some report it doesn't change the version after an update?

I will try it later today and post back. Right now I'm doing a 2:15 FR mode recording to RAM to see if my ES20 has the same problem reported in another thread "Can't copy movie recorded with FR?".
Thanks, Pat

My disc is labeled:
Model: DMR-ES20
U3-152

The file on the disc is dated 1/23/2006 9:58AM and the size is 3816KB.

ok, so for real, just email the firmware, I called pany support and they said there is no new firmware for the usa es-20, just whats on the website and it would need servicing... I called 3 service centers in town that I got from pany support and they all said they don't service dvd players or recoreders any more. I am not worried about it being burned to disk correctly since I all ready did the other firmware update with out problems.

thanks brad

Well I did a scheduled recording for four 1-hour recordings in one day, and set for a weekly repeat. The last one did not record, as others have reported. Therefore firmware U3-152 did not fix this bug.

I have done four 1-hour recordings on a non-repeat basis & all have recorded. Perhaps the temporary work-around is to just schedule all separate recordings & not use a weekly mode. Or maybe make the last program an individual timer setting vs weekly & take it out of the repeating mode. If you are using 4-hour LP mode and recording only 1-hour programs, entering 4 separate programs into the schedule should not be too much of a problem. But you should not have to.

As I mentioned earlier, Panasonic is working on another firmware upgrade to correct the FR mode scheduled recording bug. This was previously discussed in another thread. Now if we all cross our fingers, maybe this new firmware will also correct the weekly scheduling bug. Hopefully I'll know in a week or two.

Mike

Well the day after I got the first disk, I got a second one too. That one has the same non-descript lable. Mike, sounds like you have narrowed the problem down to the weekly, repeating scheduling for the last show, maybe? I will have to test, when I get the time. Anyway, I have not heard back from the "Product Department" folks from Panasonic as promised.

Brad, Mike, I and others have been "Beta" testing ES20 firmware for a while now and it doesn't fix this problem or the FR recording problem either. No sense sending something that won't fix what is broke. That just doesn't sound right :)

Panasonic is really disappointing me with this, especially when I am looking for an HD TV upgrade and it seems Panasonic is one of the better rated. By comparison, my two-year old 80GB Toshiba TiVo with a DVD player died two weeks ago and Toshiba replaced it with a refurb RS-TX60 160Gb TiVo with a DVD burner! My cost $20 shipping. Now that's what I call service! :) Probably a now known problem with the Toshiba, but hey they did the right thing. Panasonic isn't or won't! Rant ends...

Pat

Mike, sounds like you have narrowed the problem down to the weekly, repeating scheduling for the last show, maybe?

This is exactly the issue. And no, the firmware does not fix it so why even load it. Someone let me know when Panisonic actually releases a fix that alleviates these issues. Is it to much to ask for a recorder that actually does what it claims it will do?

Mike, sounds like you have narrowed the problem down to the weekly, repeating scheduling for the last show, maybe?
Pat

The problem is a bit more complex that this though. It's not just the last show, it happens whenever the Recorder "believes" that it needs to have enough room for the events that have already been recorded. I've missed two shows because the DVD records the earlier events, but believes it needs enough room on the DVD for them (even though they have already been recorded) because they happen on the same day. THe recorder isn't "SMART" enough to understand that if something is scheduled for 4 am, then at 4 pm, it doesn't need to include it in the dvd space calculation.

So, by the time it goes to record the later events, even though there is enough space on the DVD, the recorder doesn't believe there is because it "thinks" it still needs to record the earlier events.

That is why the problem shows up with later recordings. Even though the recorder has finished the earlier events, it behaves as if it hasn't recorded them yet, thus wanting to leave room on the DVD. Since they are earlier than the later events, the later events never record.

It is very, very frustrating for me and I've missed several programs because you have to take into account not only how much room you need, but how much room you need after each of the schedule recordings are recorded. So, if I have 1 hour on a DVD and I record a 30 minute (weekly repeating) program, the DVD believes I still need that 30 minute slot. If however I've already used it (because it just recorded the program) then that shoots my next 30 minute program because there is only 30 minutes on the DVD and the shedule thinks I still need 30 minutes to record the program that just was recorded. Even though there is room on the disk, it doesn't record!

1 hour on a DVD and two 30 minute programs to record:

1) it records the first one and leaves 30 minutes on the DVD
2) It _doesn't_ record the second one because there is only 30 minutes on the DVD and the recorder believes it needs 30 minutes to record the previous show. Therefore the recorder believes I need an hour on the DVD to record the event. Grrrr....

This gets very complex if you have several shows to record, some weekly and some daily. If only the scheduler would increase the day after the time had passed....


MY WISH: I wish that it would at least _try_ to record the program! It is very frustrating to learn that the recorder didn't record an hour program even though there was 2 hours left on the disk! It didn't record because I already had other programs set to record earlier in the day.

Not sure if this is making sense or not. The bottom line is: the recorder records the programs, but wants to keep space on the DVD for them, even though they have already been recorded.

My wife has said, at least with the VCR it let _you_ decided if there was enough room on tape. If not, it was your fault!

yeah that is what I don't understand.. it should start trying to recored no matter what, and if it runs out of space, that is our fault but at least it would have tried, this thing just does not even try it just gives up before ever starting. lame.

The problem is a bit more complex that this though. It's not just the last show, it happens whenever the Recorder "believes" that it needs to have enough room for the events that have already been recorded. I've missed two shows because the DVD records the earlier events, but believes it needs enough room on the DVD for them (even though they have already been recorded) because they happen on the same day. THe recorder isn't "SMART" enough to understand that if something is scheduled for 4 am, then at 4 pm, it doesn't need to include it in the dvd space calculation.

So, by the time it goes to record the later events, even though there is enough space on the DVD, the recorder doesn't believe there is because it "thinks" it still needs to record the earlier events.

That is why the problem shows up with later recordings. Even though the recorder has finished the earlier events, it behaves as if it hasn't recorded them yet, thus wanting to leave room on the DVD. Since they are earlier than the later events, the later events never record.

It is very, very frustrating for me and I've missed several programs because you have to take into account not only how much room you need, but how much room you need after each of the schedule recordings are recorded. So, if I have 1 hour on a DVD and I record a 30 minute (weekly repeating) program, the DVD believes I still need that 30 minute slot. If however I've already used it (because it just recorded the program) then that shoots my next 30 minute program because there is only 30 minutes on the DVD and the shedule thinks I still need 30 minutes to record the program that just was recorded. Even though there is room on the disk, it doesn't record!

1 hour on a DVD and two 30 minute programs to record:

1) it records the first one and leaves 30 minutes on the DVD
2) It _doesn't_ record the second one because there is only 30 minutes on the DVD and the recorder believes it needs 30 minutes to record the previous show. Therefore the recorder believes I need an hour on the DVD to record the event. Grrrr....

This gets very complex if you have several shows to record, some weekly and some daily. If only the scheduler would increase the day after the time had passed....


MY WISH: I wish that it would at least _try_ to record the program! It is very frustrating to learn that the recorder didn't record an hour program even though there was 2 hours left on the disk! It didn't record because I already had other programs set to record earlier in the day.

Not sure if this is making sense or not. The bottom line is: the recorder records the programs, but wants to keep space on the DVD for them, even though they have already been recorded.

My wife has said, at least with the VCR it let _you_ decided if there was enough room on tape. If not, it was your fault!

This is exactly correct. Is Panisonic aware of this so they can begin working on a fix?

It is even worse. If you schedule a weekly program to record on the same day next week (mine was at 12am, so that time had passed), even though nothing has been recorded, that time will be deleted from the available time for the disk. But, in the schedule display, when it shows not enough time for the later programs (! after the event), it will show that you have the time left on the disk itself in the upper display (1 hr at LP).

We had relatives visit, so did a lot of recording for later viewing and now have twice as many recorded disks than I would have if the system worked properly. All are half or just a bit more than half full. So if you go away on a trip, do not record weekly, but only have one time recordings.

This is exactly correct. Is Panisonic aware of this so they can begin working on a fix?

Yes they are aware of the problem. I have called several times, from my earlier post; "I have not heard back from the "Product Department" folks from Panasonic as promised." I would still keep calling them asking for a FIX, as I will keep doing. Maybe if enough people call, they will actually fix this problem!

Anyway, I have managed to get 3-hours on a 4-hour RAM disk fairly regularly. I use 1-hour recordings, since then it only wants to save space for the last 1-hour show and of course we all know it will never record that show!

Pat

Yes they are aware of the problem. I have called several times, from my earlier post; "I have not heard back from the "Product Department" folks from Panasonic as promised." I would still keep calling them asking for a FIX, as I will keep doing. Maybe if enough people call, they will actually fix this problem!

Anyway, I have managed to get 3-hours on a 4-hour RAM disk fairly regularly. I use 1-hour recordings, since then it only wants to save space for the last 1-hour show and of course we all know it will never record that show!

Pat

If you have a max of two (1 hr) shows each day, it will do that, but if you have three shows on one day, it will kill the third show. These are weekly or daily scheduled shows. BTDT.

I have all these same problems in the ES20 timer recordings, and I couldn't believe a fifth generation DVD recorder was incapable of what 1980 vcrs accomplished without error. I am glad I found this thread, I was getting tired of studying each nuance of the manual to try discover what I was doing wrong.

If you have a max of two (1 hr) shows each day, it will do that, but if you have three shows on one day, it will kill the third show. These are weekly or daily scheduled shows. BTDT.

I will have to try that. I thought mine had recorded three of four 1-hr shows scheduled to record back to back on the same day, i.e. 7PM to 11PM on different channels. It didn't record the last show and I had to hit manual record for 60 minutes to get that show on the same RAM disk.

Someone from the alt.video.dvdr newsgroup suggested using a FR recording for the last show, to see if that would work. Haven't tried that yet though.

Pat

I will have to try that. I thought mine had recorded three of four 1-hr shows scheduled to record back to back on the same day, i.e. 7PM to 11PM on different channels. It didn't record the last show and I had to hit manual record for 60 minutes to get that show on the same RAM disk.

Someone from the alt.video.dvdr newsgroup suggested using a FR recording for the last show, to see if that would work. Haven't tried that yet though.

Pat
Have you tried setting your sequential, multi-channel programs to start on the hour and end 1 minute early, i.e., 7:00-7:59, 8:00-8:59, etc.?

My Pioneer auto-sets start and stop times like this (1-min. differential) when there are "conflicts" requiring a channel change. Also, a dialog pops up if watching TV thru the DVR at that time reminding you that it needs to change channels.

All this suggests some "complications" could arise when trying to sequentially record shows on diff. channels and maybe some units don't handle that as well as others? Maybe hard-setting times that can't possibly conflict might work??????

I found this to be helpful....when a disc is full, instead of erasing programs...format the disc to wipe off everything...it seems the timer errors occur when you use the individual
erase program feature and the timer does not recognize the empty space. Although, it is inconveniet when you want to retain a program much later for viewing. -
Tom81

Someone from the alt.video.dvdr newsgroup suggested using a FR recording for the last show, to see if that would work. Haven't tried that yet though.

Pat

It will work but...

I wondered why the quality of the last program I recorded was so terrible when I set it up to FR. The reason was the same problem. The 20 thought it had much less space so recorded at the lowest quality setting, and it was bad.

I found this to be helpful....when a disc is full, instead of erasing programs...format the disc to wipe off everything...it seems the timer errors occur when you use the individual
erase program feature and the timer does not recognize the empty space. Although, it is inconvenient when you want to retain a program much later for viewing. -
Tom81

This is another problem. The "scheduled weekly" problem will occur with a formatted disk.

If you "erase programs" you are only removing the menu entry. Any disk except a ram disk will count the program as still there and will not free up disk space. A ram disk will free the space only if the last program recorded is removed.

On my ES 20 a ram disc will show empty space on the status setting when the first programs are erased and the last recorded programs are left. (of course, that does not mean the defective timer will work).
A DVD-RW disc will also free up some space if the LAST recorded program is removed, although it does not seem to free up space equivalent to what that program had taken up previously. A careful reading of the Manual also confirms this.
- Tom 81

It will work but...

I wondered why the quality of the last program I recorded was so terrible when I set it up to FR. The reason was the same problem. The 20 thought it had much less space so recorded at the lowest quality setting, and it was bad.

I wondered if that's what would happen with the FR mode, but didn't try it yet. Apparently, that's no solution at all then.

This is another problem. The "scheduled weekly" problem will occur with a formatted disk.

If you "erase programs" you are only removing the menu entry. Any disk except a ram disk will count the program as still there and will not free up disk space. A ram disk will free the space only if the last program recorded is removed.

I have almost exclusively been using RAM disks and if I erase any show, in any order, it shows that entire time as being available. I have erased the first of three 1 hour shows and it would then record the "new" third show, but never the fourth or last 1 hour show.

Anyone heard about the ES15 having the same problems?

Thanks, Pat

I too tried four 1-hr timer, weekly programs and the fourth did not get recorded. These were recorded on the same day. I don't know what would happen if I let it go into another day. The Status indicated I had 1Hr 1 Min remaining. So it should have picked up the 4th program, but it did not.

I discussed this problem with a Panasonic engineer. He said because of overhead, the recorder does not think it has enuf room for the 4th program. I explained I have done 4 separate 1-hr timer recordings over a week & all were recorded. He said it should not have. There is only 4.7GB on the disc and it does not work like a VCR. If the machine figures it does not have enuf room, it will not record. He said sometimes a disc gets so full that it cannot be finalized.

I can understand if a disc gets filled or thinks it is going to get filled to the max & perhaps it need a safety margin. But I did do 4 separate time recordings OK. And the weekly repeat timer that did not get all recorded said I had 1 HR 1 Min remaining, so that should have been enuf "extra" space. I have checked many of my timer recordings and all the ones that I have checked stopped about 8 seconds short of a full hour. I guess I can look at this two ways. One, since the recordings stopped early, I should never run out of room. Or two, maybe the machine is purposely stopping early in order to force a bit of room for a safety margin.

However I have frequently put 4 hrs on a RAM disc in SP mode using timer recording. Maybe the overhead is in the scheduling part. I would not think any scheduling info would get recorded, but who knows. Maybe some schedule info does get mixed in & gets recorded with the "properties " information.

Anyway, I currently have my unit set to do four weekly programs, but the last one is set for only 59 minutes. I guess I'll know later on what happens & will report back.

It will not record if all 4 are on the same day or if it is the second on the same day and will fill the disk. The panny engineer does not know what the problem is.

It will work but...

I wondered why the quality of the last program I recorded was so terrible when I set it up to FR. The reason was the same problem. The 20 thought it had much less space so recorded at the lowest quality setting, and it was bad.

If your FR program starts before midnight and ends after midnight, the ES20 will use the lowest possible quality (8+hr EP mode) regardless of available space. It is a known ES20 bug.

If you "erase programs" you are only removing the menu entry. Any disk except a ram disk will count the program as still there and will not free up disk space. A ram disk will free the space only if the last program recorded is removed.

With the ES20:

DVD-RAM behaves like a computer hard disk. Deleted chapters and titles are reclaimed right away, regardless of where they are on the disc.

DVD-RW(Video): Space is reclaimed only if the last program is deleted.

With the ES20:

DVD-RAM behaves like a computer hard disk. Deleted chapters and titles are reclaimed right away, regardless of where they are on the disc.

DVD-RW(Video): Space is reclaimed only if the last program is deleted.

Yep. I was wrong. When I look back, my problem was probably the schedule glitch and I took it for menu erase. I read the manual and it looked like RAM did the same as -RW.

I ran some tests and RAM works as advertised.

Well I did the four 1-hr scheduled repeat timer recordings with the last one being set for only 59 minutes. All programmed for the same day. It did not record the last one again. And I had 1-hr and 1-min remaining time left. There's obviously a problem.

As tom81 stated, VCRs have been able to accomplish this since 1980 without errors.

The latest firmware update that Panny is working on is to fix the the "midnite FR mode bug". Maybe it will fix this repeat timer problem too since both are timer related. Let's cross our fingers.

Well I did the four 1-hr scheduled repeat timer recordings with the last one being set for only 59 minutes. All programmed for the same day. It did not record the last one again. And I had 1-hr and 1-min remaining time left. There's obviously a problem.

As tom81 stated, VCRs have been able to accomplish this since 1980 without errors.

The latest firmware update that Panny is working on is to fix the the "midnite FR mode bug". Maybe it will fix this repeat timer problem too since both are timer related. Let's cross our fingers.

I haven't used many DVRs and DVD recorders, but judging from the two I have and from reading the forums, the old VCRs are probably more reliable than most of them :-) The problem with the DVRs and recorders is that there is a new model every 12 months or less, so there isn't enough time or commitment from the manufacturers to fix the bugs.

Part 2 -

My recorder was still set to repeat a scheduled timer recording. And it did so and recorded program #1 again since there was room on the disc.

IOW, since it previously recorded only three programs due to the bug, there was room left for another program. Strange that it could not record program #4 which was set for 59 minutes, yet it had room for program #1 again which was 60 minutes.

I now have set the machine to repeat four 59 minute programs & will find out what happens later on.

This is a timer problem - so how did Panasonic get their VCRs to timer record properly?

As ncaahoops said, manufacturers do not have a big commitment to fix these "old" models.

Part 2 -

My recorder was still set to repeat a scheduled timer recording. And it did so and recorded program #1 again since there was room on the disc.

IOW, since it previously recorded only three programs due to the bug, there was room left for another program. Strange that it could not record program #4 which was set for 59 minutes, yet it had room for program #1 again which was 60 minutes.

I now have set the machine to repeat four 59 minute programs & will find out what happens later on.

This is a timer problem - so how did Panasonic get their VCRs to timer record properly?

As ncaahoops said, manufacturers do not have a big commitment to fix these "old" models.

The weekly scheduled programs have to be on the same day. If you go to the next day, it will record the first program even if it did not record the program from the prior day.

If you have a blank disk set to record 2 one hr SP programs and it has already recorded two that day, the recorder will not record either program, but it will record two if they are the next day. As noted, it is all about programs that day.

The weekly scheduled programs have to be on the same day. If you go to the next day, it will record the first program even if it did not record the program from the prior day.


The recorder won't record the "last" show because, and here is the problem, it is holding space on the disk for the first show (eventhough it has already been recorded for that day). I see this a lot because I have two daily programs to record. Basically it holds the space for the daily program(s) even though they have _already_ been recorded. So, if you record a 1 hour daily program, and try to record 3 other one hour programs, the last one won't record because the unit is 'holding' an hour for the daily hour program. Of course it will record your first program the next day, but most of us were planning on putting in a new disk to do that. Why the timer can't figure out that the earliest program is on the next day, therefore shouldn't be part of its calulations, is beyond me.

The thing I keep forgetting to account for is when I have a 30 minute program and it records, I end up with an hour less for scheduled programs. Because if I have 2 hours free, it records my 30 minute program leaving 1.30 left on the disk, but the scheduler holds a 30 minute slot (for the program that just recorded) and thus leaves me with only an hour. It gets even more complicated the more you record....

Dave.

Part 3 -

My head is spinning from all these buggy combinations. All my experimenting has been with all four 1-hr (or 59 min) programs scheduled the same day for repeat recording.

My last test with 59 min programs had the same results as if they were 1 hr programs. Recorded the first three on the first day and had 1hr 4min space remaining. Plenty of room for the 4th program, which it skipped. The next day the machine picked up the first program again.

Of course having four 1-hr programs set to repeat while in the 4 hour mode is not practical in the sense that you have to swap discs anyway everyday. But it does save you from having to re-enter all the scheduling data every day.

It's a long shot, but maybe the latest firmware that Panny is working on will fix this too. I'm told it will be available shortly. I'll keep everyone posted.

Part 4 -

Just got back from vacation and noticed something peculiar. I had left the recorder with the same scheduled repeat timer settings. It actually recorded 3 minutes of the first program and had a display message that the disc was full. And the schedule set up screen displayed the letter "F" to the far left side of the first program. I presume to indicate "Full".

If it thought it never had room to record program #4, how could it record a partial of program #1 ?
If it was capable of recording partial program #1, it should have recorded at least some of program #4. Obviously it should have recorded all of #4 the first time thru. But I still find it interesting that it did the 3 minutes of #1.

I dunno.

If dmullens is correct, try putting in a bogus program as the first program and make that only one minute long. Then have the four programs you want at 59 minutes each. If it is indeed reserving space on the disk for the next day's recording of the first program, then as long as there is one minute free for the one minute first program, it should be okay.

Silly, but just a thought.

Here's another bug and I think it relates to the FR mode and timer recording at midnite bug which was previously discussed, & which Panasonic is working on..

I just did a 3hr FR mode timer recording from 8pm to 11pm. At 9pm I started watching using "chase play". Out of curiosity I checked the status periodically. All was normal until 11pm came around & the unit ended the recording cycle. It kept playing just as it should have. However the remaining time now jumped up & indicated over one million hrs remaining at LP speed!! That's right, 7 digits were now displayed.

After I turned the recorder off/on, it correctly displayed no time remaining.

Again, I dunno.

If it is indeed reserving space on the disk for the next day's recording of the first program, then as long as there is one minute free for the one minute first program, it should be okay.


It doesn't just reserve space for the first program, but for all the programs. My problem, like I've said before, is that I have two half hour programs in the morning I record each day. Even after they are recorded, the recorder will reserve space for them. So if I want to record anything in the evening, I have to make sure that I have enough space for what I'm recording in the evening plus the space for the two programs recorded earlier.

Of course, this is all cumulative. That is the problem. The more programs that are scheduled, before a certain program, have to be accounted for (since the recorder will reserve space for them too...even though they have already been recorded...which is the problem).

If anyone hears of fixes please let us know. I, for one, have about given up and am just trying to live in the reality of the problem....

I've been keeping in touch with Panasonic about the FR mode bug at midnight as per another thread. Since it's a time problem, all these timer bugs may be related. I dunno. Anyway they thought they had a firmware fix, but the new firmware caused another problem. So Panasonic has given the problem to LSI who makes the chip. Bottom line, no fix available yet, no ETA.

Here's another bug and I think it relates to the FR mode and timer recording at midnite bug which was previously discussed, & which Panasonic is working on..

I just did a 3hr FR mode timer recording from 8pm to 11pm. At 9pm I started watching using "chase play". Out of curiosity I checked the status periodically. All was normal until 11pm came around & the unit ended the recording cycle. It kept playing just as it should have. However the remaining time now jumped up & indicated over one million hrs remaining at LP speed!! That's right, 7 digits were now displayed.

After I turned the recorder off/on, it correctly displayed no time remaining.

Again, I dunno.

Hi Mike99, I've seen this problem a couple of times, exactly as you described it! They should rename FR to TR for Troubled Recording :-)

I'm so glad I found this thread -- I was going crazy trying to figure out why my ES-20 won't behave, but now I know others have exactly the same problem.

What I did was to record from 9A-10:30A, then from 11A-11:30A every weekday, and unfailingly only the first segment would record. So I'm pretty convinced that the diagnosis I've seen elsewhere in this thread -- that the firmware has a bad bug that makes it unable to compute time properly -- is accurate.

Another pretty annoying bug is the user interface. If, in the scheduler, you select a channel with the keypad (e.g. push 5), then right-arrow to the next field, it will ignore the 5 and instead use whatever channel the recorder is currently set on. You can't hit 5 + ENTER either, that'd make too much sense. Instead you have to key in 0, 0, 5 for channel 5.

Panasonic's customer support has been worthless. I'm surprised and disappointed that a 5th(?)-generation product from a major manufacturer has this kind of flaws.

I'm surprised and disappointed that a 5th(?)-generation product from a major manufacturer has this kind of flaws.

Join the club!

Panasonic's customer support has been worthless. I'm surprised and disappointed that a 5th(?)-generation product from a major manufacturer has this kind of flaws.

I wrote a letter to the CEO and got a call from an engineer. He understood the problem but said it was designed that way as a part of an agreement between Japanese companies. He aslo said that he would forward the problem to Japan but did not see much in the way of fixing it. The rational is that consumers are stupid and they have to design the recorder to protect them from themselves. Have to prevent them from trying to put more on the DVD than it can take.

Which is garbage. It is just poor design.

Which is why I did not buy a 55 but a Polaroid instead. Made by Phillips and does not have the problem, even with disks.

Ok.. so this thread has been kind of slow for a while.. any one have any new news on the firmware? canada site has an even newer firmware now that says it has patches for lots of the issues that we have been having it seems but no update to the usa software on the website? My recorder now has started to not be able to keep the clock at the right time.. i set it by hand .after it hits 12pm or 12 am it seems the clock seems to get off and I have not idea what is going on. pany tech was not any help saying update fimrware.. or send the unit in.

I Know people here had a newer fimrware cd mailed to them and were testing other beta firmware and I would just like to hear form people what the latest is with the firmware stuff and will ask agian for some one to pelase email me the newer firmware for the usa version because I can not get it from panasonic... i have tried and tried and don't have the secret code that lets me talk to any one but first level note takers that just give me no help.

thanks,
Brad

p.s has any one tried the new canada software on the us model .. any problems? what can happen and can't you just update it back to the us verison?

hello any one here any more..

is there a way to keep the clock set to manual mode and not let it do auto clock set any more... it keeps screwing us and setting its self to the wrong date.

thanks,
brad

If anyone is still listening:

Panasonic finally seemed to have fixed the weekly program logic flaw in the DMR-ES20 (at least by my inital testing) with the firmware update version U3-161 but it is only available on the Canada Panasonic site: go to http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/sandd/softwareQuery.asp and enter "dmres20" with no spaces in for the model number and click Search. The version on the USA site, U3-150, and the previous version on the canadian site, U3-158 did not fix the flaw.

Good Luck!!

If anyone is still listening:

Panasonic finally seemed to have fixed the weekly program logic flaw in the DMR-ES20 (at least by my inital testing) with the firmware update version U3-161 but it is only available on the Canada Panasonic site: go to http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/sandd/softwareQuery.asp and enter "dmres20" with no spaces in for the model number and click Search. The version on the USA site, U3-150, and the previous version on the canadian site, U3-158 did not fix the flaw.

Good Luck!!


Thanks for the info. I still use my ES20 and last updated the firmware almost a year ago, but I don't recall which version. There seemed to have been several programming flaws if I recall from past postings. These may not be exact descriptions, but should be close.

1) Repeated daily programming & losing a program?
2) Running out of room when scheduling multiple recordings & losing a program?
3) Midnight scheduled recording bug?

I never did #1. Regarding #2, I use FR mode on the last recording so I avoid the problem. And the firmware version I have corrected #3.

Which programming flaw(s) were you experiencing that it corrected?

Previously Panasonic suggested I do not use Canadian firmware on my USA model. There was a concern if there were any differences that the firmware may not work properly & lock up the unit. Have you noticed any problems?

Thanks again.

I've had problems with the ES20 with recording also, and have figured out the following things...
It does not like to record at different speeds on the same disc, even if you erase the other recording
Regardless of what the paperwork says, it does not like to record more than once on a "+" plus. "-" discs are not a problem. I haven't tried RAM discs.
I do have a major glitch with timer recording. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, it happens for quite some time and then it's fine for months. I'll set the timer and after it's finished with the time recorder, the clock an date go haywire, then it's a total bear to get the clock reset. When this problem occurs I can guarantee I'll have problems for about a week or so. If it wasn't for lack of $$ I'd toss this puppy and go get something else.

I've had problems with the ES20 with recording also, and have figured out the following things...
It does not like to record at different speeds on the same disc, even if you erase the other recording
Regardless of what the paperwork says, it does not like to record more than once on a "+" plus. "-" discs are not a problem. I haven't tried RAM discs.
I do have a major glitch with timer recording. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, it happens for quite some time and then it's fine for months. I'll set the timer and after it's finished with the time recorder, the clock an date go haywire, then it's a total bear to get the clock reset. When this problem occurs I can guarantee I'll have problems for about a week or so. If it wasn't for lack of $$ I'd toss this puppy and go get something else.

I have an ES20, please see my posting above regarding bugs found be some people. I use mainly DVD-RAM and don't have a problem. I did upgrde to the latest firmware & it corrected the midnight FR mode bug. Make sure you have latest firmware, perhaps that will fix your problems.

Can anyone direct me to where I can get a copy of the USA firmware updates for the panasonic DMR-ES20? Also, what is the process for feeding the new firmware into the DVR?

Thanks
Tom

Can anyone direct me to where I can get a copy of the USA firmware updates for the panasonic DMR-ES20? Also, what is the process for feeding the new firmware into the DVR?

Thanks
Tom

It should be on the Panasonic web site. Be sure to download the version for your model. You then burn it to a CD-R, & be sure this is done properly. Then follow the directions to install it. Or you can call Panasonic & ask them to mail you a disc with directions.