the pc and macmall prices have changed.... i guess it was too good to be true

They probably received too many phone calls....

Maybe too early to ask, but how's things on the RBE front? It looks like it's going to be a good projector, my only issue is the bulb cost, $1720au in Australia. Mitsubishi projectors are well priced down here but the bulb cost is a bit rich. Could be worse though the Sony Ruby bulb costs $2700au.To be perfectly honest as I stated before, I am not sensitive to RBE. I have seen it in DLP PJs in the past, on the Mitsu HD4000U for example, but rarely to bother me. It is latent on the WD2000U as it is on the BenQ 8720 and it does not bother me what so ever unless I try really hard to see it or move my eyes left and right quickly enough. To me the measurement of quality projection is when technical flaws do not distract or overpower me from the content. The Mitsu WD2000U is such a machine. Not perfect in many ways, but overall very good and at a price point that any excuses become compliments for what you get back in return.

the pc and macmall prices have changed.... I guess it was too good to be trueLike I said, it sounded too good to be true. I am aware of the dealer's cost on this PJ. They'd be loosing a lot of money selling it for their original claimed price... but they got free extra publicity out of it :)

Hi all,

I went ahead and ordered this unit. Should have it tomorrow. The price was right and the on-line dealer is reputable and an authorized Mits dealer. So I feel relatively confident I will get it tomorrow. I'm not a novice but neither an expert. So, I'll let you know how it looks to me "out-of-the-box." I was going to get the Sammy 710 but with backorders and horrible projector downtime reviews...I got frightened off. Mits products seem to be better built so I have my fingers crossed this was the "right" one to buy. The dealer gives me 72 hours to evaluate it and return it without a restocking fee. I am on vacation this week so I'll use every one of the evaluation hours!

Marcus

Question for Liebkid,

I'll be driving the projector using a Denon 2910 DVD player (HDMI out) and a DISH High Def receiver (HDMI out). A computer will be added later this summer (holding out for a blu-ray enabled computer).

You said an external video device is preferable. Do you mean something like the DVDO iScan VP20?

Of course, I am anxious to hear what you have to say after you have it calibrated.

Thanks...Marcus

LiebKid,

Thanks for the quick reply and I am sure this is the machine we have been waiting for. Sounds like it is great out of the box with the options to really make it pop. I agree with a lot of your statements except for zoomplayer....TheaterTek is the best DVD player hands down and I am sure this should be posted in another area, but I had to throw a shout out for their product. I have yet to find anything that stacks up to TheaterTek without some major tweaking...

LiebKid, Thanks for the quick reply and I am sure this is the machine we have been waiting for. Sounds like it is great out of the box with the options to really make it pop. I agree with a lot of your statements except for zoomplayer....TheaterTek is the best DVD player hands down and I am sure this should be posted in another area, but I had to throw a shout out for their product. I have yet to find anything that stacks up to TheaterTek without some major tweaking...TheaterTek is a very good DVD software player indeed with a very real DVD "hardware-like" menu interface. However ZoomPlayer, specially the Pro version plays everything as far as formats gop and, with one key advantage: it uses any decoding software and rendering engine you want so you can choose with playback decoder you want. That means you can have TheaterTek's, PowerDVD, WinDVD or anyone else's and choose at will. The advantage of ZoomPlayer is that instead of installing on your computer dozens of different players (audio and video), you only need the codecs and drivers and you can playback just about every conceivable format. Also, the rendering options and tweaking capabilities of Zoom player are without pair. recently a friend of mine with a slower PC computer was trying to view WMV-HD content via Media Player but of course playback was unwatchably choppy. Played back via ZoomPlayer with a correct chosen rendering and display options, everything played flawlessly. To me its a matter of flexibility and leanness. I like computers to be able to do as much as possible with minimum stuff installed in them. Zoomplayer can use any codec it finds on your system or that you feed it with while installed its less than 2 Megs in size (!) and requires minimum CPU utilization. That is called brilliant code writing.

Marcus

I'm looking forward to your comments on your WD2000U when you get it. Like you, I was all set on the Sammy 710, but I was scared off by the start up problems that many owners are having with it. I am now seriously considering the Mits as an alternative.

oFolks, my WD2000U has been calibrated! I will post a complete set of my final setup and screenshots soon. This has been a long day for me. I still do not know the service menu codes but the installer told me he can get them within the next few days and I'll post the info here if no one does it first. From my adjustments to a fully calibrated machine there is quite a difference. ND filter was permanently removed as I suspected as the machine calibrated suffered a light out put hit. We have managed to squeeze some extra shadow detail and black enhancement and the image it delivers is stunning. Fed via the Crystalio-II, I've managed to get some of the best blacks I've seen on any product in this category, while shadow detail shows me things on screen on material I had seen X times before and never noticed it was there. This is one sweet projector and the hands of someone that can adjust it professionally is well worth the investment. Before calibration using only my humble adjustments to adjust color as well as I quickly could, maximize gamma and avoid any white clipping, I was getting around 2400 lumens out on low power and 2800 lumens out on high power (ND filter off of course). After calibration, I am still using the PJ on low power mode and now peak brightness is measured at around 1600 Lumens which is fantastic. Kicking in high power mode jumps it to around 1900 lumens. On low power, contrast nears a true to ratio of slighly above 1900:1 which let me tell you, without irises, flags or any other tricks, yields an image on screen that is truly magnificent. On high power mode, CR drops to around 1700:1 which though still very good, makes me believe that aside from bumping up the voltage on the bulb, the PJ's internal workings also tweak the color wheel's white segment and other brightness enhancing processes that can not be turned off, at least without entering the service menu. All in all, this is very good in my opinion. Of course, the bulb is new with only 16 hours on it at this point. To get the best out of this machine the gamma correction capabilities of the Crystalio-II were crucial. I do not know any other way of properly having this PJ calibrated without an external processor, unless you feed it from an HTPC and then, all color correction can be done at software level there. My master calibration reference viewing material has been a 720p feed of The 5th Element and I'll be posting screenshots of it, also comparing still frames with the BenQ 8720, that in a word is..., dim :) To get the max out of the Mitsu if you want to get the last drop of its performance capabilities (well worth it) at least until we know what can be done in the service menu, you will need an external video processor, that is the bottom line and I cannot say it here enough times to avoid any disappointments on those who want a near-perfect image from the WD2000U using only its internal color correction facilities when feeding it DVI. Unless you use analogue you cannot access key color correction features, but analogue input quality is a no-no as image suffers a hit in all fronts.

Finally, and on a side note here, let me tell you that the folks at PixelMagic have done a really good job with the Crystalio-II. I can now disclose I got my Crystalio-II bundled from an PD Action 3 1080p I have been evaluating and testing for some time. I will post a full review on that PJ once it is officially on the market with its final release firmware revision. The Crystalio-II is a great product and what it does, it does really well. Far from bug free nor perfect, it is the overall most accomplished video processor I've used and it can turn a mediocre projector in to an acceptable one and an excellent one into a jewel. That's what it does for the Mitsu. The WD2000U is a wonderful machine at a price most of us can afford without giving away key features, and light! When fed via the Crystalio-II, its really magnificent, and, (the LCD purists will kill me) when compared to the Senior light canon Mr. Sanyo PLV-70/80, its like opening your eyes for the first time after surgery after years of suffering from cataracts. Kudos for the PixelMagic crew. Its taken them a long time, but it has been worth the wait :)

Nice to see that contrast ratios meet specification. Looking forward to the screenshots.

1,600 lumens in low power mode after calibration is impressive. If this is really true they should sell like hotcakes. I would like to see the AV Science people post a review.

IB

Liebkid:

You are correct with your recommendation with zoom player "IF" you are the type that loves to play and tweek and strive for that last 10% that most people never see or appreciate...or you go with TheaterTek and enjoy everything right out of the box including connecting with FDDSHOW...just looking out for the little guy in a big pond :)

1,600 lumens in low power mode after calibration is impressive. If this is really true they should sell like hotcakes. I would like to see the AV Science people post a review. IBI look forward also in reading reviews on it as they come out and I suspect, this machine will be a winner for Mitsubishi. Sanyo should be worried... if its not the new Canon LCOS series machines (still more expensive, somehow feature-crippled and with much less CR specs), the Mitsubishi going for street prices for about 1/2 of the PLV-70/80, leaves everyone else quite far behind.

Ironic isn't it? It took us to finally being on the verge of 1080p front projection, to finally have really great, feature packed and affordable 720p machines, that, are technically totally outdated. We all wanted the Mitsubishi WD2000U... 2 years ago... Progress... you gotta love it :)

Liebkid: You are correct with your recommendation with zoom player "IF" you are the type that loves to play and tweek and strive for that last 10% that most people never see or appreciate...or you go with TheaterTek and enjoy everything right out of the box including connecting with FDDSHOW...just looking out for the little guy in a big pond :)bigworm, I agree with you 100% on your take on the matter :)

To get the max out of the Mitsu if you want to get the last drop of its performance capabilities (well worth it) at least until we know what can be done in the service menu, you will need an external video processor, that is the bottom line and I cannot say it here enough times to avoid any disappointments on those who want a near-perfect image from the WD2000U using only its internal color correction facilities when feeding it DVI. Unless you use analogue you cannot access key color correction features, but analogue input quality is a no-no as image suffers a hit in all fronts.

liebkid - thanks for the review and info. I am considering this projector or the Samsung 710 (hoping they can fix the issues). Based on what you said, is this simple summary accurate for the WD2000U:

Component Inputs (Analog) - Do not use as image quality suffers.

DVI w/external video processor - Absolutely fantastic - top notch!

DVI w/no video processor - ?? Service menu fixes TBD, but for now would this be recommended? Would the picture quality be close to the Samsung H710 or similar?

Thanks
Robert

Can anyone recommend where to buy ND filter that will fit for this PJ? Thanks.

liebkid - thanks for the review and info. I am considering this projector or the Samsung 710 (hoping they can fix the issues). Based on what you said, is this simple summary accurate for the WD2000U:

Component Inputs (Analog) - Do not use as image quality suffers.

DVI w/external video processor - Absolutely fantastic - top notch!

DVI w/no video processor - ?? Service menu fixes TBD, but for now would this be recommended? Would the picture quality be close to the Samsung H710 or similar?Hi Robert. My impressions:

Component Inputs (Analog) - Sharpness loss, added noise and some artifacts added. The PJ likes DVI input the best

DVI w/external video processor - Absolutely fantastic - top notch high-brightness machine!

DVI w/no video processor - Service menu "might" fix color correction crippled user menu.

Now, as if the picture quality is close to the Samsung H710?... I've never seen the Samsung H710 in action so I cannot comment. However I see an insistant try in comparing the Sammy to the Mitsu and I am not sure why. The Sammy is a small footprint pure HT machine, low brightness, targeting small screens. The Mitsu is a large footprint, large venue projector that strives in high light output targeting large screens. I cannot forsee anyone in the market for a Sammy to be in the market for the Mitsu and vice-versa. Based on specs the Sammy seems a top notch choice for accurate color reproduction and higher CR than the WD2000U. if brightness is not an issue, I'd say the Sammy seems like a better choice. If you need a light canon, when, then you know what I think :)

Liebkid:

Thanks for the incredible amount of info and the time you've devoted to this thread. Thanks also for the generous offer of attending the debut on the 8th. It figures that I would be flying from LA to Oregon next week for a family event. Damn.

Looking forward to the pix.

I cannot forsee anyone in the market for a Sammy to be in the market for the Mitsu and vice-versa. Based on specs the Sammy seems a top notch choice for accurate color reproduction and higher CR than the WD2000U. if brightness is not an issue, I'd say the Sammy seems like a better choice. If you need a light canon, when, then you know what I think

I agree. However, if the Mitsu is used with a high contrast screen, ND filter, and low lamp mode, I wonder if the contrast and blacks could be brought more into line with the Sammy?

Guys,


I just went the the PJ Central throw calculator and plugged in the values for my 92 inch, 1.8 gain Graywolf screen. For the WD2000U it showed a screen brightness of 161 FT-L!

Holy roasted retinas Batman!

Mike

Makes me want this projector even more, especially when I have NONE at the moment. Powerbuy......??

"I cannot forsee anyone in the market for a Sammy to be in the market for the Mitsu and vice-versa."

I can. Namely anyone looking for a HT pj.

The same ft-L range could be obtained w/either one, depending on screen size and gain, i.e. bigger unity gain screen or smaller Hipower with 2.8 gain.

"I cannot forsee anyone in the market for a Sammy to be in the market for the Mitsu and vice-versa."

I can. Namely anyone looking for a HT pj.

The same ft-L range could be obtained w/either one, depending on screen size and gain, i.e. bigger unity gain screen or smaller Hipower with 2.8 gain.

I completely agree! As this is something I am struggling with now. However, the bigger struggle for me is do I buy a WD2000U today or wait for a 1080P LCOS or LCD that will have a street price similar to the WD2000U. If I decide to wait for the later, I would buy a HighPower today to address my current brightness issues and have it later for the 1080P. I am going to wait to see if the service menu gains us access to all the color controls first, because I can't afford a $2000+ processor and a new projector. Decisions, decisions.....

However, the bigger struggle for me is do I buy a WD2000U today or wait for a 1080P LCOS or LCD that will have a street price similar to the WD2000U.

I'm guessing that would take a couple of years. How long are you willing to wait?

Hi,

Just played with a WD2000 for a few hours. Source is a well config HTPC in 1280x720 DVI connection 1:1 mode (remember to reset Overscan to 100%).

The WD2000 is bright, but not as bright as I expected, in low lamp and no White Section (no BC). And Black level is not as low as I expected. After flipping the R/G/B contrast/brightness control during the whole viewing, I still couldn't get the overall color tonal in sharp, just like other 1280x768 DLP projectors (Sharp Z2000, Mit HC3000, Optoma H72) I saw.

The projector itself looks like a tank with excellent build quality and the fan is very quiet. But picture-wise, it didn't really meet my expectation!

My next target will be the Sharp Z3000. I really need to find a 1280x768 DLP panel with good color rendition.

regards,

Li On

I'm guessing that would take a couple of years. How long are you willing to wait?


The Sony "Pearl" is rumored to come in at around $5K-6K MSRP which would put street price around the same price as the Mitsu. If the Pearl is real I would expect to see this early next year to replace the HS51a. I would expect that within the viewing cone of the HP using something like this "pearl" that I would get very close to the same ftl of the screen with a little better CR without the use of the iris. The trade off would be greater detail, and smother picture with less SDE, and no worries about RBE vs. naturally bright picture with no viewing cone issues and longer bulb life.

We could see 1080P LCD sooner....who knows, nothing even rumored here much....Will Panasonic or Sanyo drop the 1080P on us to replace the current projectors? Who knows......

Hi,

Just played with a WD2000 for a few hours. Source is a well config HTPC in 1280x720 DVI connection 1:1 mode (remember to reset Overscan to 100%).

The WD2000 is bright, but not as bright as I expected, in low lamp and no White Section (no BC). And Black level is not as low as I expected. After flipping the R/G/B contrast/brightness control during the whole viewing, I still couldn't get the overall color tonal in sharp, just like other 1280x768 DLP projectors (Sharp Z2000, Mit HC3000, Optoma H72) I saw.

The projector itself looks like a tank with excellent build quality and the fan is very quiet. But picture-wise, it didn't really meet my expectation!

My next target will be the Sharp Z3000. I really need to find a 1280x768 DLP panel with good color rendition.

regards,

Li On

Hmm, I can't imagine that the Sharp Z3000 is going to any better than this Mits. Could it be that your expectations are too high for a bright single chip DLP?

I really want to like (and have) a 1280x768 DLP model, as the dread 1-chip DLP MOTION dithering is reduced to a level even acceptable to me. But they ALL have poor color rendition no matter how hard I tried to flip the adjustment!

Many 720p DLPs give good to decent color reproduction but also MUCH more motion dithering artifact!

The Mit extra brightness is only a bonus IMO but now after seeing the real picture, it's NOT as bright as I though. I think the reason is the extra brightness comes from the White segment and BC progressing which only screw up color rendition even more!

Besides, the WD2000 has the worse black level among all those hometheater DLPs I saw in recent years!

After you actually bought 9 projectors in 9 years and saw TONS of models during the time, I guess you will have a abnormal expectation on your next projector! :D

regards,

Li On

Two diametrically apposed reviews, I guess I am just going to have to see it for myself.

I really want to like (and have) a 1280x768 DLP model, as the dread 1-chip DLP MOTION dithering is reduced to a level even acceptable to me. But they ALL have poor color rendition no matter how hard I tried to flip the adjustment!

Many 720p DLPs give good to decent color reproduction but also MUCH more motion dithering artifact!

The Mit extra brightness is only a bonus IMO but now after seeing the real picture, it's NOT as bright as I though. I think the reason is the extra brightness comes from the White segment and BC progressing which only screw up color rendition even more!

Besides, the WD2000 has the worse black level among all those hometheater DLPs I saw in recent years!

After you actually bought 9 projectors in 9 years and saw TONS of models during the time, I guess you will have a abnormal expectation on your next projector! :D

regards,

Li On
Li, if it's that bad I'd venture to say there might be something wrong with it and would suggest you trying to get it exchanged for another one if you can. If its a question of you not thoroughly taking the time and sit down to properly adjust it, try to do it if you have the patience. There range of adjustments possibilities on the PJ is very vast, and though it might take you a few hours of playing around with it, I bet you'll get it right.

Hi all,

My WD2000 came in today (whoo hoo). I'm taking a break from hooking it into my system. But, when I get back to it (after some lunch) I will report my findings later today.

BTW...I was going to get a Samsung 710. But, because of all the horror stories being reported, I opted to cancel and go with this unit. The WD2000U has a great look and feel to it. Liebkid said he didn't think this unit would be a good alternative to the Sammy. I'll let you know my "novice" impressions so you can make your own decision.

Marcus

"Li, if it's that bad I'd venture to say there might be something wrong with it and would suggest you trying to get it exchanged for another one if you can."

I think Li On's expectations may have been too high from your earlier subjective comments, in particular where you said it was much brighter than whatever (I forget) yet had similar black levels.

Your measurements of 2000:1 CR and high brightness indicate a pretty high black level.

Here are a few first screenshots. I will refry myself from any remarks and just let the pictures be the source for judgment, as soon this thread will enter the stage of "I think it's great and "the quality sucks" kind of opposite opinions. Everyone's mileage will vary and this is what you can get properly calibrated when connected via DVI to an good external processor. My setup. You can clearly see black levels this PJ can do from the gray bars on top and bottom of the 2.35:1 native widescreen aspect ratio of the movie compared to the black borders of my screen (obviously darker than the darkest the PJ can do). You'll notice little visible artifacts and an overall very clean tone rendition along with good CR. For a high brightness projector that is on the streets for less than $3500 and is feature packed, I think this is extremely good. My opinion of course. I am still running the PJ on low bulb. These are JPEG compressed pics so there is a little extra noise added to them due to the native JPEG compression artifacts induced when saving them (95% quality) to post here. Also all shots were overexposed by about 10% to enhance the visibility of the gray bars and make it clearer to judge overall CR.

I will post additional screenshots with links to full resolution downloads (large files!) and also comparing same still frames with the BenQ8720 that is about 1/3 of the brightness but with an edge on black levels.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen1.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen2.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen3.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen4.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen5.jpg

Here are a few first screenshots. I will refry myself from any remarks and just let the pictures be the source for judgment, as soon this thread will enter the stage of "I think it's great and "the quality sucks" kind of opposite opinions. Everyone's mileage will vary and this is what you can get properly calibrated when connected via DVI to an good external processor. My setup. You can clearly see black levels this PJ can do from the gray bars on top and bottom of the 2.35:1 native widescreen aspect ratio of the movie compared to the black borders of my screen (obviously darker than the darkest the PJ can do). You'll notice little visible artifacts and an overall very clean tone rendition along with good CR. For a high brightness projector that is on the streets for less than $3500 and is feature packed, I think this is extremely good. My opinion of course. I am still running the PJ on low bulb. These are JPEG compressed pics so there is a little extra noise added to them due to the native JPEG compression artifacts induced when saving them (95% quality) to post here. Also all shots were overexposed by about 10% to enhance the visibility of the gray bars and make it clearer to judge overall CR.

I will post additional screenshots with links to full resolution downloads (large files!) and also comparing same still frames with the BenQ8720 that is about 1/3 of the brightness but with an edge on black levels.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen1.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen2.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen3.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen4.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/m_screen5.jpg


Wow!! I'm speechless!!

Good looking screen shots. I know many people argue screen shots do not tell the truth but they are still a treat and I look forward to seeing them. Im still amazed at the detail a 720P can produce. Now if you only teased us by telling us these were from an advance copy from Sony BR then Id really be jealous. Nice shots :)

liebkid,

which video processor would you recommend to use with this projector? and if it would be possible, could you please post screenshots without the video processor in use.....just wanted to get an idea what it would look like without one.



thank you very much

liebkid, which video processor would you recommend to use with this projector? and if it would be possible, could you please post screenshots without the video processor in use.....just wanted to get an idea what it would look like without one. thank you very muchHmmmm, I've heard great things about several processors and I know there are a few new boxes due out that are supposed to be really good. However, I can only comment on what I have. I've used a Crystalio-I for a while and though a unit that had never the software fully developed to match its hardware capabilities, I think is very good, specially for up converting and color correcting SD material. I would however NOT recommend it for the Mitsubishi WD2000U because it doesn't do gamma correction (one of its main down faults). The WD2000U comes truly alive with proper gamma tracking and the PJ itself has a fairly mediocre gamma adjustment capability. I'd certainly recommend the new Crystalio-II (that I am feeding the Mitsubishi via DVI with) that improves everything in all fronts from the original Crystalio, is a joy to use and allows you to color correct with extreme flexibility and precision. Unfortunately, its not pocket-change friendly :(

One thing to keep in mind guys...liebkid running a LARGE screen at over 150"/ if I recall. I myself run what many would consider a large screen at 118"/ with my plv-60 clone. To see that much detail, sharpness and even contrast at 150"+ is simply insane. It's light years ahead of my lowly antique 13hd. :)

I'll probably get flamed and I don't mean to offend anyone...but I would guess a lot(not all ;) ) of the people in this thread have little perspective on which to base their comparisons/opinions/expectations of the wd2000 on as most haven't seen this kind of image quality on such a large format screen.

I mean 150" is freakin' huge!!! . :D

Good looking screen shots. I know many people argue screen shots do not tell the truth but they are still a treat and I look forward to seeing them. Im still amazed at the detail a 720P can produce. Now if you only teased us by telling us these were from an advance copy from Sony BR then Id really be jealous. Nice shots :)... hmmm, an advance copy from Sony BR, I'd like that :) Yes, 720P is still really good and from a certain distance from the screen on, the resolution gap between 720P and 1080P quickly diminishes. And I agree that while many people argue screen shots do not tell the truth I still believe they can partially tell the truth and are always a delight to look at. You can easily see the black levels the WD2000U can do and the massive difference between the pitch black border of the screen, and the lowest shade of gray the WD2000U can do, calibrated. However, we do not watch movie looking at the black bands! Or at least I don't. I look at the greater picture and at the content and if they are good enough, I think some forgiveness is to be given to the hardware's down faults and limitations. One discusses price and performance here and I believe the WD2000U scores some honest points by giving us for a good value, a picture that is above decent, and with features many competitors don't offer, for twice the price.

One thing to keep in mind guys...liebkid running a LARGE screen at over 150"/ if I recall. I myself run what many would consider a large screen at 118"/ with my plv-60 clone. To see that much detail, sharpness and even contrast at 150"+ is simply insane. It's light years ahead of my lowly antique 13hd. :) I'll probably get flamed and I don't mean to offend anyone...but I would guess a lot(not all ;) ) of the people in this thread have little perspective on which to base their comparisons/opinions/expectations of the wd2000 on as most haven't seen this kind of image quality on such a large format screen. I mean 150" is freakin' huge!!! . :D159" diagonal to be exact :)

159" diagonal to be exact :)

159"...you lucky s.o.b. :p

I only wish I had a room that could handle a screen that large. When I finally upgrade my 13hd...I'll likely move up to a 126"+/- screen. That's about as big as i can go with my 8.5' ceilings and seating distances yet leave room under it for my dual-15" woofered center channel.

What kind of seating distances are finding optimum with the wd2000?

159"...you lucky s.o.b. :p I only wish I had a room that could handle a screen that large. When I finally upgrade my 13hd...I'll likely move up to a 126"+/- screen. That's about as big as i can go with my 8.5' ceilings and seating distances yet leave room under it for my dual-15" woofered center channel. What kind of seating distances are finding optimum with the wd2000?14 feet at least and above. I'll take picture of my screening room later on for you guys to take a look at. I think its a neat setup :)

liebkid-

Great screenshots...I'm salivating!

Just a quick question re: your setup...what aspect ratio is your screen? I thouught you were using an ISCO anamorphic lens, so I was wondering why the black bars?...

Thanks!

Harry

liebkid- Great screenshots...I'm salivating! Just a quick question re: your setup...what aspect ratio is your screen? I thouught you were using an ISCO anamorphic lens, so I was wondering why the black bars?... Thanks! HarryHarry, I am not using an ISCO anamorphic lens. What I am using is an ISCO Wide-Angle lens as I have very short throw distance.

Ok guys here are-side-by-side comparisons as I promised. This has given me a **** load of work. I am done for the day as far as pics go :) The shots were taken with the same exposure settings on my digital camera so you can see the differences between the Mitsu out of the box in high and low power, then calibrated and then side-by-side with the BenQ also calibrated and outputting the maximum amount of light it can. Contrast is clearly a bit better on the BenQ and colors now what I see it a bit more realistic, but the light punch of the WD2000U (still in low power mode fort maximum CR) is breathtaking. I think this gives a good idea of everything I went through settings wise and how the PJs compare with different settings. As I said before, feeding the Mitsubishi to the Crystalio-II makes the PJ come truly alive and the difference between what the projector can deliver by itself or connected to a good external video processor is very clear! Enjoy!

http://www.youthdelivery.com/sbs.jpg

Thanks for all of the hard work you went through for those great shots. I'm assuming all of these shots were taken @ 159" screen?
Thanks

Liebkid-

Way to go! I have to give you props for putting so much time in providing all this information for us to review. It all comes down to personal taste and everything is a gamble, but I can't see how someone wouldn't be able to make an educated decision based on all the great data you have put together...Coming from a Sanyo Xp21n to this should be a really big treat...

I will be ordering mine soon...thanks again
matt

Hi Liebkid,

My thanks too for all the time and work you've devoted to this thread.

I agree as well that the WD2000 many not be for everyone. For me however, I think it will be perfect. I put together a livingroom 'tv theatre' in our house, as we didn't want to go down to the 'bat cave' theatre to watch sports and HD tv. The combination of a medium bright LCD and retro-reflective screen yielded amazing results, even during the day with 40' of east facing floor to ceiling windows.

Now, we also have a condo that has even worse daytime light control, as it has 25' of floor to ceiling south facing windows. I think the WD2000 will be the perfect fit for 'theatre 3'. Especially because when it's not in torch mode for daylight viewing, it can be tamed for a great pic for night-time movie watching.

Thanks again for the great find. Can't wait to see it at Infocomm next week!

Jonathan

Thanks liebkid for the side-by-side comparo....IMO i like a bright image and I think the 3rd column showing the calibrated wd2000 is stunning. I know this must have been a ton of work for you so I'd like to thank you for your effort.

If I had the funds...I think I'd be all over this pj, but I just bought a bunch of JBL PROFESSIONAL Cinema audio gear so my "fun" money for the next few months will be limited. :(

Harry, I am not using an ISCO anamorphic lens. What I am using is an ISCO Wide-Angle lens as I have very short throw distance.


Ahh...I got it!

Thanks for all your hard work on this...looks like a winner!

Harry

liebkid,

thank you so much for your effort!

also wondering if you and others can help with my decision....i am debating between this, the samsung h710ae and the 8720. the room will be painted dark charcoal, however the back of it will be completely open, so there will be some ambient light coming in....do you think i'd be good with the samsung or the 8720 on a 110-120 or should i consider the wd2000?

"To see that much detail, sharpness and even contrast at 150"+ is simply insane."

What am I doing wrong, it looks only 9" wide on my monitor?

:)

Liebkid,

Thanks for all your hard work on testing this exciting new projector.
I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.

1. You are using a 159" diag 16x9 Firehawk screen with a gain of 1.35, correct?

2. After calibrating with your CII video processor you mentioned that the WD2000U was puting out 1600 lumens in low power mode and you have removed the ND2 filter, corect?

3. If my math is right your screen is appoximately 75 square feet,

1600Lumens / 75 square ft = 21.33 lumens per square ft

21.33 x 1.35 gain = 28.8 Lumens per square ft.

I thought for HT you design around 12 Lumens per square ft, you have 28.8 according to my math. Figuring that you will lose 50% brightness of your bulb over its lifetime I would think that you would want to use the ND2 filter now so that the 28.8 Lumens per square ft you are getting now would be toned down to 14.4 via the ND2 filter, and then as your bulb ages maybe to around 25-35% lumens loss you would remove the ND2 filter to make the bulb look new again.

Or are you designing around 28.8 Lumens per square feet (instead of 12) to negate ambiant light in your HT room.

Am i correct with my math or am i calculating something wrong. I am just trying to get a handle on this so i can dessign my HT room properly. Thanks!!!




Question for people using HTPC for the Video processor adjustments.

I understand how you would use the HTPC to feed 480i dvd content to you projector, utilizing a Graphics card like a Nvidia 7800 and software to convert it to a 720P DVI/HDMI signal to feed the projector. And it is recomended with the WD2000U to allow the HTPC to do the Video processing, (gamma/color corrections).

But my question is can i also use the HTPC to correct and do the Video processing for my HDTV signal (i.e.- 720p/1080i output from a Satalite or cable STB). I don't understand how you get the 720p/1080i DVI/HDMI signal from your sat box into the PC for the software to proccess it.

I know ther are DVI capture cards that do HDTV, but i thought they were very expensive like $5000 plus!!!!

There are cheap HD Tuner capture cards from Hapauge for a couple hundred bucks but i thought they only capture OTA HD signals, and not a true DVI/HDMI 720p/1080I HD signal like you would get from your satalite box.

Hey everyone,

Well, I'm certainly impressed with this projector. And so is my wife (an important consideration!). "Out of the box" the picture is bright, very sharp, and a joy to watch. I am feeding it DVI from both my new DISH HD receiver (perfect!!!) and a Denon 2910 DVD player. Apparently, I am having some "copy protection: issues with the dvd player which I'll have to resolve...so I mainly watched HD content off the DISH receiver. Lamp is on low power and all settings are "auto" or normal. I am projecting on a wall while I decide on the best screen. All I can say is that this is one helluva projector. Bright, sharp, and fabulous colors. Let me say this again. It is very bright (but not overwhelming), very sharp, and the colors will simply make you drool. I want to watch every dvd I own this weekend!!!!

I purchased it from http://www.allprojectors.com/. Good price and got me the projector overnight.

So...I am happy. No startup issues. Worked right from the box.

I am a novice using projectors. But, I have to say...this is an incredible machine.

Now...I'm sure it'll be reviewed as a terrible proector just because I like it (hahahaha). But, watching this thing is simply amazing. Once I purchase a screen and have it professionally calibrated....I gotta believe it will be superb!

No hesitation. Buy this one. Thanks to Leibkid for discovering it and helping me make a damn decision and spend the $$$. Gosh, I've been waiting so long to finally make a decision and get one.

Marcus

Its very bright but not overwhleming you say? have you tried the presentation mode? you can get a tan watching a movie :)

...I thought for HT you design around 12 Lumens per square ft, you have 28.8 according to my math. Figuring that you will lose 50% brightness of your bulb over its lifetime I would think that you would want to use the ND2 filter now so that the 28.8 Lumens per square ft you are getting now would be toned down to 14.4 via the ND2 filter, and then as your bulb ages maybe to around 25-35% lumens loss you would remove the ND2 filter to make the bulb look new again....Or are you designing around 28.8 Lumens per square feet (instead of 12) to negate ambient light in your HT room.Richard, there is always an issue of personal taste involved in things. The given math that ideally for HT you design around 12 Lumens per square ft maybe right for some. Personally I like a brighter picture and the punch it delivers. You are correct, I have around 28 Lumens per square ft currently and for me with this machine calibrated, it looks great. I have 70m/m, 35m/m and 16m/m projectors in my home theater that I still use almost daily to watch REAL films from REAL prints (the ones that are still surviving the test of time). Nothing still beats film. All these machines with high wattage Xenon bulbs output XXX much more light than the WD2000U and, what they deliver on screen is superb. So, I have a trained eye for high brightness and like it that way. One can argue what's bright enough or too bright, but as long as the grey scale is correct and blacks (or dark grays) are dark enough to be perceived at least as near-blacks, there is nothing like having an extra punch of light to fill up the screen and see the image pop at you with almost an extra dimensionality.

Hey everyone,

Well, I'm certainly impressed with this projector. And so is my wife (an important consideration!). "Out of the box" the picture is bright, very sharp, and a joy to watch. I am feeding it DVI from both my new DISH HD receiver (perfect!!!) and a Denon 2910 DVD player. Apparently, I am having some "copy protection: issues with the dvd player which I'll have to resolve...so I mainly watched HD content off the DISH receiver. Lamp is on low power and all settings are "auto" or normal. I am projecting on a wall while I decide on the best screen. All I can say is that this is one helluva projector. Bright, sharp, and fabulous colors. Let me say this again. It is very bright (but not overwhelming), very sharp, and the colors will simply make you drool. I want to watch every dvd I own this weekend!!!!

I purchased it from http://www.allprojectors.com/. Good price and got me the projector overnight.

So...I am happy. No startup issues. Worked right from the box.

I am a novice using projectors. But, I have to say...this is an incredible machine.

Now...I'm sure it'll be reviewed as a terrible proector just because I like it (hahahaha). But, watching this thing is simply amazing. Once I purchase a screen and have it professionally calibrated....I gotta believe it will be superb!

No hesitation. Buy this one. Thanks to Leibkid for discovering it and helping me make a damn decision and spend the $$$. Gosh, I've been waiting so long to finally make a decision and get one.Marcus, great choice for your jump into the HT world! Take the time to calibrate your WD2000U. Explore all settings and mess with it. Write down all settings as you explore the PJ's adjustment's menu so you can always go back to them if you messed things up. If you can, have it professionally calibrated. IT WILL BE WORTH THE MONEY. If you liked it out of the box, you'll be blown away once its adjusted properly by a professional. Congrats on your new purchase! :)

liebkid, thank you so much for your effort! also wondering if you and others can help with my decision....I am debating between this, the samsung h710ae and the 8720. the room will be painted dark charcoal, however the back of it will be completely open, so there will be some ambient light coming in....do you think i'd be good with the Samsung or the 8720 on a 110-120 or should i consider the wd2000?If you have some ambient light coming in the room, I'd suggest without a doubt the wd2000 over both the 8720 (that is a great PJ though not very bright) and the h710ae that I have personally never seen but is rated at even lower light out specs and seems to reportedly be having some technical glitches as I reported by several users.

If you have some ambient light coming in the room, I'd suggest without a doubt the wd2000 over both the 8720 (that is a great PJ though not very bright) and the h710ae that I have personally never seen but is rated at even lower light out specs and seems to reportedly be having some technical glitches as I reported by several users.

thank you very very much for your take on this matter.

Based on the great work that liebkid did for us on the side by side comparison I can understand why LI ON was not impressed. The non-calibrated picture in low power shows a distinct difference in black level, color temp and saturation....a remarkable improvement for sure once calibrated using his great processor. My only concern is that it seems like I would need a good external scaler to get to that great picture...which puts things out of range for me....hmmm

liebkid, in your screen shots, I can see more shadow detail in the dark shot of the cop, especially in the top left of the screen when compared to the 8720. Is that a true dipiction or is that simply because the camera is not capturing the detail do to lack of light from the screen in the 8720 shot?

Thanks for all you great work I think many people really appreciate it!

Based on the great work that liebkid did for us on the side by side comparison I can understand why LI ON was not impressed. The non-calibrated picture in low power shows a distinct difference in black level, color temp and saturation....a remarkable improvement for sure once calibrated using his great processor. My only concern is that it seems like I would need a good external scaler to get to that great picture...which puts things out of range for me....hmmm

liebkid, in your screen shots, I can see more shadow detail in the dark shot of the cop, especially in the top left of the screen when compared to the 8720. Is that a true dipiction or is that simply because the camera is not capturing the detail do to lack of light from the screen in the 8720 shot?

Thanks for all you great work I think many people really appreciate it!I think the reason why there seems to be more shadow detail in the dark shot of the cop when compared to the 8720 is probably because the camera indeed captured less the detail do to lack of light from the 8720. I'd say the shadow detail between the 8720 and the WD2000U is on pair with each other though because of the extreme brightness of the Mitsu you tend to be able to see more in the darker shades of gray than on the 8720 where things get too dim for any detail to be easily perceived. High brightness DOES help in perceiving more shadow detail. As for absolute blacks, the 8720 does have a slight advantage. Let me tell you, once you get used to the image punch of the Mitsu, there is really no going back.

liebkid, could you post your settings(before and after) of the WD2000U, and yes I do understand that this is not exact due to your external processor had to be adjusted too. Also, do you have screenshots of the Greyscale when the projo was calibrated?

Thanks

Liebkid,

Thank you. And, especially thank you for all the information you have posted to this forum.

Marcus

Hi Liebkid,

thanks for the great work you're doing.

I'd like to know what can we expect from this vpr with a 16/9 100" screen ?
We have a 768 projector like the last one in the market or ( after a good calibration) we have something better ? so, it' a vpr for huge screen only ?

And as far as concerned the service menu ? any news ?




Sorry for my english, I'm writing from Italy


Many thanks

Luca

Don't know if this works, but it appears, from the pics, that if one wanted the same black level as the 8720, an appropriate (darker) filter would do the job and you would still have all the other advantages of the 2000 plus as good or better pic as the 8720.

Then as time wears the lamp, the filter can be lightned.

As much as I would like Liebkid to try this, I would not dare to impose any more on his time and effort; only the rare and few have been so nice and kind, not to mention all his excellent responses, based on his extensive work, just to help all of us to better understand the 2000.

Liebkid, you are the real winner here!

Thank you, ever so much!

I would like to see a Mits v 8720 shootout ... although the Mits is only DC2.

Still, it is a bit more wallet friendly :)

[QUOTE=liebkid]As I said before, feeding the Mitsubishi to the Crystalio-II makes the PJ come truly alive and the difference between what the projector can deliver by itself or connected to a good external video processor is very clear! Enjoy!


liebkid - I have been a lurker here for some time as I am in the process of designing and building a house with a dedicated home theatre. This will be my first front projection setup and I've learned a lot from the great people on this site. Your hard work and dedication in reviewing this so thoroughly is exactly why this forum is so valuable. MANY, MANY, MANY thanks!

I think this projector has made my short list for consideration - fortunately for me, the house won't be done until Feb '07 so I have lots of time for pricing to drop and new products to enter the mix.

I also would like to state that these side-by-side comparisons really helped me understand why a VP like the Crystallio-II is valuable in a HT setup. I'm definitely going to a lot some budget for this VP in my setup given the clear results illustrated through your hard work.

Based on the great work that liebkid did for us on the side by side comparison I can understand why LI ON was not impressed.

Please do NOT reference my opinion/comment with ANY screenshot that trying to show the quality of a setup. I do NOT believe screenshot for quality comparison.

regards,

Li On

Li ON, I apologize and I meant you no disrespect. Let me restate my opinion. By using the set of screen shots as a comparison, I can see a dramatic difference between low power non-calibrated and low power calibrated using a quality processor. I can clearly see an improvement in black level, better color saturation and balance in the calibrated shot.

Li On, do you think it could be possible that something may have been wrong with the projector you were able to do some testing on? Do you think that an external video processor could have enabled you to get better color balance? I am by no means a video file and my expectations I think are pretty low as I am using a non-calibrated Sony HS-51 without the use of the iris and I am very happy with the quality of the picture and the overall color I am able to get out of it. I am not thrilled with the black levels I get out of the projector but I have to trade shadow detail and brightness to an unwatchable level for higher on/off contrast, so I simply accept dark grey for black.

Thanks,

"By using the set of screen shots as a comparison, I can see a dramatic difference between low power non-calibrated and low power calibrated using a quality processor."

The main difference I see is in brightness, and a slight green tinge in the uncalibrated that could probably be corrected nicely with a color filter or perhaps service menu adjustments.

I'm still curious about the sharpness/cleanness of image w/o external processing. The WD2000 is a great value for the brightness and features, but having to spend another $2K for a VP makes it much less attactive.

liebkid, you mentioned a link to high res photos, but I didn't see it. Is there one, and are they taken from close enough to see what the WD2000 does with a signal on its own?

Thanks for the great work in giving us all the info on this very interesting pj.

This pj would let me switch from a Hipower to a low gain AT (acoustically transparent) screen.

"To see that much detail, sharpness and even contrast at 150"+ is simply insane."

What am I doing wrong, it looks only 9" wide on my monitor?

:)

The understood assumption, like with most other screen shots on this site, is that we're looking at unedited shots taken of his screen(159" in this case) using the same camera settings or as close as possible.

My comment is comparing these shots(again...assumed to be of his 159" screen) to what I see personally on my 118" diy RS_MUDD screen/plv-60 combo. Make no mistake...the plv-60 is bright and hd looks phenomenal...but these screen shots simply blow it out of the water.

That would also explain why the 8720 appears so dim. That's a mighty large area for the 8720 to light up so I have no reason to "doubt" the screen shots.

But would I buy this or any pj simply on screen shots posted on a website...hell no. ;)

This pj would let me switch from a Hipower to a low gain AT (acoustically transparent) screen.

Noah,

Which projector are you using with the HiPower? I have been considering a change to this screen, what is your opinion of this screen? Part of me thinks that if I go to the HiPower, I could upgrade from my current 121" to 133", still be significantly brighter than I am now, and be well armed for future high contrast 1080P projectors. I have not seen a use of the HiPower in person and I am just wondering, if in your opinion do you think that a HiPower screen is a good substitute for a bright projector? Assume that I can place my projector (Sony HS51) optimally which would be behind my seating position with a throw of about 21' and just above my head. My seating position is at about 16' from the screen and all seating is within the boarders of the screen.

Also does the HiPower do well in ambient light when the light sources are reflecting from the sides of the room?

Thanks,

"...if in your opinion do you think that a HiPower screen is a good substitute for a bright projector?"

Absolutely.

The Hipower is kind of a miracle screen - high gain, resistant to ambient light, no hotspotting, no sparklies, texture or other artifacts, wrinkles don't show, and relatively inexpensive.

Search the Screens forum for lots of info/testimonials.

I have a Pan AE900. With roughly unity gain, it was very filmlike - meaning that, just like in a movie theater, in many scenes I found myself looking for shadows to determine if it was a sunny or overcast day.

With the Hipower there's no question when something is sunlit.

Does anyone know what scaler chip this uses? Pixelworks? TI?

liebkid - To go a little off-topic, what camera settings are you using to take these screen shots? I can never seem to get an accurate picture from my digital camera. I have a Canon G6 (7.1 mega pix). I get the proper white balance from sampling a 50% gray field, but I can never seem to get the correct exposure settings. I had to stop down 1 1/3 to get somewhere even close. It seems like you have the magic touch - any hints?

liebkid - To go a little off-topic, what camera settings are you using to take these screen shots? I can never seem to get an accurate picture from my digital camera. I have a Canon G6 (7.1 mega pix). I get the proper white balance from sampling a 50% gray field, but I can never seem to get the correct exposure settings. I had to stop down 1 1/3 to get somewhere even close. It seems like you have the magic touch - any hints?
Canon EOD-1DS MkII - 16 Mega Pixel setting for best resolution and to avoid moiré from DMD pixel grid
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM Canon Lens - high contrast lens with no barrel distortion
Super Low Gain Setting (ISO not specified but tentatively about a theoretical 8ASA) - to minimize added noise
Lock white balance manually ideally to 6500K or try matching the PJ's outputting color's temperature. Alternatively just do a manual white balance calibration from pure white coming from the screen using a calibrated reference white
Cut Default Capture Contrast by 20% - Helps highlights burns and helps with gray shade scaling
1/4s Exposure time - to capture all frame without flicker or uneven exposure
F/16 Aperture on the lens - to maximize depth of field, focus precision and flatten perspective. Also remember, lenses' maximum resolution is typical in the mid center of its aperture range.
ND 2x filter - to cut extra light as needed
Tripod - forget about holding the camera with your hands
Bracket from F:3+ to F:3- till you get it right - testing is the only way
Set file type to ideally to RAW to by-pass any in-camera processing. if you don't have it, use an uncompressed format such as TIFF or, if only JPEG is available, set it at its highest quality saving setting to minimize added noise due to compression loss
Select your movie frames to be shot and do full-res screen capture stills of them, to be used to snap the screenshot from the projector (that way you don't have to fiddle with live pause and still and take as long as you want for each shot... that is if using an HTPC as in my case, from an 720p movie source)
Lock the camera in that setting and start shooting.
All this changes completely of course with the Lumen output of the Projector and the screen gain
Import the files ideally as RAW in Photoshop and do any processing at that level if possible.
Up low-end level mid-tones to 225 to compensate the contrast down by 20% at capture. Watch for burn highlights and pay attention to the histogram display
Resize picture to the final size you want to upload and apply an Unsharp Mask of around Amount:20/ Radius:0.5/ Threshold:0 that gently compensates artificially adding any extra sharpness for the added softness resulting from reducing the picture's dimensions without
Save final files to be uploaded on Photoshop using "Save for the Web" @ 95% quality - the best balance in quality with minimum added artifacts and considerable reduction in file size
To make it simple, record your actions on Photoshop and then batch file all shots for queued processing

How is SDE with a 156" screen sitting at 1.5-2 times screen width?. Is it noticeable?. Thanks.

How is SDE with a 156" screen sitting at 1.5-2 times screen width?. Is it noticeable?. Thanks.Typical of 720p machines w/ DarkChip 2. No better, no worse.

Liebkid:

I was researching the video processor that you are currently using and I can say that would be a very tough sell to the old lady..."but honey it will be so much better..." :p
Can you recommend some other VP that "might" be acceptable for the quality and keep me out of the dog house?

Liebkid,

have you seen the IF 7210 and if so, how would that compare to the wd2000?

Liebkid, have you seen the IF 7210 and if so, how would that compare to the wd2000?Yes I saw the IF 7210 a long time ago as I had the chance of seeing a few demos. I remember thinking it was actually a really good PJ and specially now that prices are down, it might be a good choice. However, it does not feature lens shifting so it was never a contender of a possible purchase for me. Due to the nature of my setup and the absolute refusal in using digital keystoning (there goes all of your detailed definition and pixel-to-pixel mapping), lens shifting is a feature I cannot live without. The demos I saw of the IF 7210 were good but I never spent enough time with it nor recall its image quality precisely to be able to give you an honest take on it. I can give you however an honest take on the IF 4850 that has been in my kid's room for over two years now and in use for hours every day... THE BEST 480P DLP machine ever made. No lens shifting, no thrills, no nothing fancy, but, CR still amazing to current standards (about 2000:1 as spec'ed), over 2300 hours on the bulb and still going strong, colors right-on-the-money, razor sharp corner-to-corner focus... and it was less than a grand. Matched with a DaLite 92" diagonal Hi-Power Screen, this thing is the most solid rockin' little DLP PJ I have ever owned. For that alone, I think Infocus makes fantastic PJs :)

Liebkid: I was researching the video processor that you are currently using and I can say that would be a very tough sell to the old lady..."but honey it will be so much better..." :p Can you recommend some other VP that "might" be acceptable for the quality and keep me out of the dog house?I can only comment on what I have used. Though without Gamma corrections capabilities the original Crystalio-I is also a great machine, now available at a discounted price. There is vast choice in VPs out there, a lot new coming out. They range from very expensive to fairly affordable but, ultimately you get what you pay for. video processing is 1/2 the story to good image on screen, no matter the PJ's optical engine, DMD used, lens, etc. The trade-off on the Mitsubishi (just as in other PJs like the Sharp XV-Z2000 that is a very capable little 720P PJ when digitally fed externally its native signal but whose internal video processing capabilities are absolutely a disgrace if you let the PJ do the job to say the least) is that it is a great display head unit but depleted of superior internal video processing, thus, a cut down in manufacturing and selling price. There is always a trade-off. You will see that the vast majority of very good PJs combo a great light/optical engine/path with extremely sophisticated internal video processing, scaling and deinterlacing. Thus they cost double or triple.

Ask the folks at AVS for their recommendations on other VPs. They might be able to help you out with their hands-on opinion on them. Also, research fairly priced machines such as the DVDO Iscan VP20 or example. I hear great things about it and, at nearly 1/4 of the price of the Crystalio-II, it might be a good contender:

http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp20.php

Thanks again, since I have never had the luxuary of owning a VP I am sure that your recommendation will be fine and it's under the 2k mark...So, with this little baby and the WD paired for right around 5k, this should be an excellent setup for the average joe...I currently have my Direct TV HD being fed directly into the Sanyo Xp21, HTPC and Xbox360 all direct feeds as well and get a heck of a picture. I plan on ditching my 110" 4x3 grey goo screen amd replacing it with a HC dalite screen just in time for kick-off.

My experiences so far,

Hello everyone. I've had the WD2000U for a couple of days now. ...And I'm still saying "WOW" to myself watching the picture. Using my HiDef DISH receiver, the picture is fantastic. My Denon DVD player has an HDCP issue when using the long DVI/HDMI cable. I'm pretty certain it's the cable because when I use a different (and short) cable (putting the DVD player right next to the projector) then the picture is fine.

While I'm wating on a replacement cable...I've been taking the time to fool around with the settings. I guess I have to admit I don't know what I'm doing so once I get a screen installed I will get a professional to help me calibrate everything. Right now, everything is pretty much set to normal or auto. Low light output. But, rest easy. For the average viewer looking for a great picture at a great price...this one is the one...right out of the box.

My plan is to install it using a ceiling mount. I've tested this (using a very tall ladder type setup). Once it's upside down I can lens shift with plenty of room to spare. I will project out about 15 feet to a 119 inch HD format screen.

Speaking of screens...since I don't have a perfect room to control light, I am seriously considering the Da-Lite High Power fabric. From all that I've read...I think this will suit my taste and budget. I know I got a light canon here. But, I still think the hi power will work best.

I suspect towards the end of the week I'll have it ceiling mounted, screen installed and a replacement HDMI/DVI cable. At that time I will add some serious commentary because everything will be in place. Right now, everything is kind of "temporary" so I really can't give you any real impressions...other than even using this temporary set up...I am totally impressed.

Marcus

You won't get the best performance from the High Power with a ceiling mount. Read the HP threads; it works best when mounted at, or slightly above eye level, perhaps behind the viewers.

Speaking of screens...since I don't have a perfect room to control light, I am seriously considering the Da-Lite High Power fabric. From all that I've read...I think this will suit my taste and budget. I know I got a light canon here. But, I still think the hi power will work best.


You won't get the best performance from the High Power with a ceiling mount. Read the HP threads; it works best when mounted at, or slightly above eye level, perhaps behind the viewers.


The Da-lite High Power uses retro Reflective technology (Like Highway signs), The magnified light output is reflected back to the source (Like your car headlights).

What that means is the 2.8 gain (actually more like 3.1) will be projected back up to the ceiling mounted projector lens. But when you are sitting at your primary seats within the width of the screen you should still be getting around 1.4 to 1.7 gain from the screen depending on the height of the projector (when you stand up you will notice a gain increase when standing within the screen width. As you move outside the screen width the gain wil drop off to 1.0 and stay there no matter how severe the angle is.

The Hi Power is like a magical screen, provides good gain increase, is inexpensive, rejects ambiant light from the sides very well, and provides a very sharp image.

Also remember that the 2.8 gain is going to be reflected up to the ceiling, so if your ceiling is a light color or white, it is really going to brighten up, probably to the point of bothering you if you are watching movies at night (dark room). The positive sid eof this is this would make a good Ambiant light HT room, where it will look good in the daytime with moderate light, or at night with some lighting on in the room.

I know this because i use the High Power screen with my Infocus 4805 and i did lots of testing with viewing angels and gain with it. So with your setup assuming 1600 Lumens after calibration on low power like liebkid is getting, and a 119" diag screen you should excpect the following:

119" diag = 59" x 104" = 6136 sq in = 42.61 sq ft

1600 Lumens / 42.61 = 37.5 Lumens per sq ft x 1.5 screen gain = 56 Lumens per sq ft (Lamberts).

Definetely on the high side for movie theatre referance.

Normal Movie theatre Lumens per sq ft are between 12 and 18, CRT TV brightness is around 36, and plazma TV brightness is around 96.

Also remember that your bulb wil loose about half its Lumens over its lifetime, so near the end of its 5000 hour life the projector will only be generating about 800 Lumens calibrated at the end of its life.

If you are going to go with the Hi Power i would suggest that you also buy a ND4 (67%) and ND2 (50%) Neutral Density filter so you have the option of taming the light output from the projector for nighttime or darkened room viewing.

You may actually be better off using a High Contrast Grey Screen with a 0.8 gain, this will put you at:
1600 Lumens / 42.61 = 37.5 Lumens per sq ft x 0.8 screen gain = 30 Lumens per sq ft (Lamberts).

The Low gain Hi Contrast screen will not reject the side ambiant light like the Da-Lite Hi Power screen will. I do like the Da-lite High Power, I own one and am using it on mt 4805 ceiling mounted and it works great, but i think you better be reday to use ND filters with that setup unless you are going for the 119" TV feel, and not a Home Theatre feel.

Desert Pilot, Richard is absolutely right. The DaLite High Power should ONLY be used when the projector is at about eye level, not above, and specially not on the ceiling... you'd have to be near the ceiling also for the best seating position. You'll definitely be better off with the High Contrast Grey Screen that will allow you BOTH to set the projector wherever you want, even if totally off-axis, and actually maximize a bit more of the PJ's native contrast.

Also as an added piece of info, I found a workaround on the adjustment menu to be able to somehow individually adjust color gain for each channel. The only thing there is no way around misery unless we find out the service code is to adjust gamma properly. The 3 available settings actually only adjust the high luminance portion of the gamma tracking and do little or nothing for low-end grey scaling and shadow detail. So, the good news is , YES you can adjust colors fairly well even via DVI. The bad news is proper gamma tweaking is no where at reach. Fortunately, out-of-the-box, if you turn most of the BrilliantColor enhancements off and use Theatre mode, the PJ comes as close to good out-of-the-box as I have ever seen one. To anyone thinking about this PJ and matching it with an external VP, make sure you choose one that allows flexible gamma tracking. That is one of this PJ's major user menu limitations... I'm sure its all on the service menu...

Finally, I have the best possible calibrated settings for the PJ stand alone (NOT CONNECTED TO A VP) and if you want I'll post them here so you can crunch the last bit of better adjusted performance out of your WD2000U by itself. Of course this is very dependent on your sources signal's properties, and gamma adjustment is not included, meaning you might be in or out of luck for a picture perfect scenario depending on your source's output, if you cannot adjust gamma there (many higher-end DVD players for example allow you to adjust it) :)

Richard_RD and Liebkid,

Thank you very much for your persuasive discussion. OK...since I admit to not knowing what I'm doing. ...AND...looking over all the math involved in making a screen selection, I will defer to you both and order a high contrast grey screen. There is a possibility of keeping the projector at seating level (I'll have to think about this). But I really want it up and out of the way using a ceiling mount.

Liebkid...sure, I would love to see what settings you think work the best (without a video processor). By the way, I am in the market for a computer to hook in to my system so I can get high def via the internet (and other stuff). Currently, I am impressed with cyberpower's computer systems http://www.cyberpowerpc.com . Ultimately...my prediction is ...preamp & video/audio processing & system control will be through a media computer system.

I can't wait for a "real" screen so I can watch without apologies!

Marcus

You won't get the best performance from the High Power with a ceiling mount. Read the HP threads; it works best when mounted at, or slightly above eye level, perhaps behind the viewers.


Yep, EXACTLY where I am mounting mine :)

liebkid, do you know how close the Greyscale was OOTB? and at what preset? Posting your settings without the use of the VP would be great since the VP30 does not have gamma adjustments (as of now).

Thanks,

Jim

The Hi-Power has many more benefits than just the high gain when sitting in the "cone".

The idea that you want to use an angular reflective screen when not using the highest gain of the HP is not good advice IMO.

No waves, no hotspotting, ambient rejection...

All the more important to get these qualities of retro-reflection with a bright projector.

In fact if you have the choice, you should setup the HP and then adjust the view angle until the gain is suitable for the bright Mits. Ceiling mounted may be just right.

Ken

To help everyone adjust their WD2000U (of course this will work with any 1280x768 native res PJ) I have made a few charts that can help you tune-up and calibrate colors, gray scale, gamma ramp, and check for flicker, precise focus, pluge, and overscan issues. Feed these in full screen from an HTPC pixel matched to the 1280x768 resolution of the PJ.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/wd2000u_adj.jpg


Here is a download link (http://www.youthdelivery.com/wd2000u_adj.zip) with a zip file containing uncompressed BMP shots of each screen for calibration. Enjoy.

Here are some final shots of a portion of my screening room's setup with the Mitsubishi finally in place :)


http://www.youthdelivery.com/mitsu_final_1.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/mitsu_final_2.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/mitsu_final_3.jpg

http://www.youthdelivery.com/mitsu_final_4.jpg

Nice setup Liebkid, I am jealous!!!!! :) :) :)

Liebkid, You have the wide-angle attachement on the 2000, correct?

Liebkid, You have the wide-angle attachement on the 2000, correct?Yes, correct.

:eek: :eek: :eek:


tell us something about your work and Hobby !!

and show the other side of the room with a screenshot too ;)



P.S. service menu nothing again ?

Luca

a couple of questions...

As everyone knows, I recently purchased a WD2000U. By the way, we are watching the movie King Arthur and WOW...very nice picture. Ya know, DVD quality really comes in to play when using a precision display device!

Anyway, a question. when using anything with a very expensive lens on it...I usually buy a filter to cover the lens. Not that I expect any problems with a projector mounted on the ceiling...but I've never read about protective filters for projectors. Should I use one? Where would you recommend I get one?

thx! Marcus

Marcus,

"we are watching the movie King Arthur and WOW...very nice picture. "

Is that with its own video processing? What DVD player?

Thanks

Hi Noah,

Pretty much the projector is set up right out of the box. DVD player is a Denon 2910. HDMI to DVI cable. What I am discovering as I watch different DVD movies is that the quality of the picture is all over the place. The King Arthur DVD has great detail and lighting. This made the home theater experience impressive.

Marcus

My installler called back and still no news on service menu codes. I'll let everyone know if I hear anything before anyone else here does... :)

That sucks, I hope we get that code, I remember from my last PJ it was just a combination of buttons from the remote..Anyway if I will purchase a lens filter what size should I buy that will screw in and fit with this PJ? Anyone know? Thanks.

Looking at the product brochure it appears there is no component input, is this the case?

Is anybody using a Dalite High Power with their Mits 2000? Or is that just TOO much brightness?

Looking at the product brochure it appears there is no component input, is this the case?There are 2 component ins.

Last night I watched Underworld "evolution" which was just released on DVD. The WD2000U handled it beautifully. The movie is a "dark" vampire movie...which means lots of blacks and greys and mostly nighttime scenes. A movie like this can really challenge a projector. I was amazed at the shadow detail. Now, I'm sure the director had a lot to do with the quality of the lighting and, of course, DVD quality is always an issue. On this particular movie, I was very impressed with my new projector and how it handled the task.

On a side note, as I play around with different materials for a screen, I've discovered that white screens may create problems. The whites of the projected image may almost look flourescent and not satisfying. I am now pretty much decided on a High Contrast Grey screen (Da-Lite maybe?).

Marcus

Is anybody using a Dalite High Power with their Mits 2000? Or is that just TOO much brightness?


I am ordering my WD2000U on 6/14 for my High Power and will report back after I have it set up..


Jim

I am ordering my WD2000U on 6/14 for my High Power and will report back after I have it set up.. Jim

Very much look forward to hearing about it. Also please include in your report the screen size, viewing distance, location (ht and distance) of the pj, and any other relevant parameters you can think of!

What would you guys say is the minimum screen size to take full advantage of this projector?

It seems that this projector loses it's advatages on smaller-sized screens. Is 120" a good size?

What would you guys say is the minimum screen size to take full advantage of this projector?

It seems that this projector loses it's advatages on smaller-sized screens. Is 120" a good size?

That's the size I'm planning on. My only consideration now is whether to get the Firehawk or the High Power. With 1600 Lumens (after calibration to 6500K), the FH generates 47 ftL, while the HP puts out a (blinding?) 105 ftL! Now I do want a bright pic, but the latter just might be too much, giving whites that glow too much, etc. So I'm waiting attentively to hear reports from those of you that have these various screens with the 2000.

Hi Liebkid,

thanks for the great work you're doing.

I'd like to know what can we expect from this vpr with a 16/9 100" screen ?
We have a 768 projector like the last one in the market or ( after a good calibration) we have something better ? so, it' a vpr for huge screen only ?


Luca



Yes, it's the same RyanJNielson's question :rolleyes: ;)

Luca

I hear you. So far, based on the stats and reports, I would opt for a HC gray screen. But the eyes are the best judge! Looking forward to more reviews.

The only other major consideration with this projector is the current inability to access the service menu. Has anyone cracked that code yet?

It seems it would be necessary to have an outboard video processor if you can't access the service menu. How are people dealing with this issue? (Or is it too early to tell?)

I went to Infocomm today specifically to have a chance to see the WD2000U in action, but I was very disappointed with the way it was displayed. The picture that was displayed was very small, about 5 feet wide, on a screen that I'm not familiar with: a dnp Supernova Screen (maybe you know more about these screens than I do). There was a lot of ambient light so the contrast did not punch out as much as I had hoped.

They were running the video feed from HD PC via DVI and the picture looked very clear and stable. They ran it side by side with the HD4000U and, surprisingly, I saw little difference in the image. Maybe it looked marginally brighter, but not much. I have no idea on the settings of the pj. PLEASE don't take this to mean that I'm saying that the WD2000U is not as great as liebkid says, but DO take this to mean that I don't feel that the potential of this pj was shown at the conference. It just didn't stand out from the crowd.

The attached picture shows the projected image being blurry and the fault in that is my camera. I think this shows why this pj wasn't displayed to it's fullest potential.

The Supernova is a super-expensive screen (over $4K for 120"diag) that is supposed to be super in rejecting ambient light. It requires quite a long throw (>/= 1.8) and can be prone to hot-spotting (from what I've read).

I went to Infocomm today specifically to have a chance to see the WD2000U in action, but I was very disappointed with the way it was displayed. The picture that was displayed was very small, about 5 feet wide, on a screen that I'm not familiar with: a dnp Supernova Screen (maybe you know more about these screens than I do). There was a lot of ambient light so the contrast did not punch out as much as I had hoped.

They were running the video feed from HD PC via DVI and the picture looked very clear and stable. They ran it side by side with the HD4000U and, surprisingly, I saw little difference in the image. Maybe it looked marginally brighter, but not much. I have no idea on the settings of the pj. PLEASE don't take this to mean that I'm saying that the WD2000U is not as great as liebkid says, but DO take this to mean that I don't feel that the potential of this pj was shown at the conference. It just didn't stand out from the crowd.

The attached picture shows the projected image being blurry and the fault in that is my camera. I think this shows why this pj wasn't displayed to it's fullest potential.It looks c o m p l e t e l y out of calibration, there is light everywhere, image is totally tinted blue, no blacks (...no grays either for the matter)... Long, long ago I gave up any hopes of going to trade shows to judge any product of any kind. The people displaying them positively rarely have any clue on how to set the machine's up or know anything about them. When I when to Infocomm last year in Las Vegas, of over 35 PJs on display, every single one looked like crap. That's my only take on the matter and that is why long ago I stopped wasting my time at any show of any type!

Liebkid,
Can I use the iscan VP20 on this PJ and just get the dvi to hdmi cable? thanks.

I was also at infocomm today and looked at the Mits. The blacks had almost no detail and the picture looked flat. I blamed both the source and the ambient light level but the projector did not present well. How does this projector handle the 1280 x 768 chip resolution when displaying 16:9 content? Does it mask the top and bottom of the chip and only use 720 pixels?

I think there is a setting adjustment for "overscan" which will hide any overscan to fill up the screen, I dont know if this is what you talking about..

Liebkid,
Can I use the iscan VP20 on this PJ and just get the dvi to hdmi cable? thanks.
I am also trying to pair up this great projector with a top notch scaler. Liebkid has stated that the crystallio II's gamma calibration made this projector shine.

I looked at the VP20 owner's manual and I don't see where it does gamma calibration. If there is a DVDO/VP20 owner here please correct me if I am wrong. The Lumagen HDP at a similar price point to the VP20 apparently has gamma calibration.

Anyone else have thoughts on which of these two may pair up better with the Mits?

One major thing that I got from the show in general is that I noticed that my eyes seemed to always jump to the brighter projected images first. Even if the contrast ratio wasn't as great the brightness really added to the punch of the picture. Sanyo, Barco, and Digital Projection displayed their products very well, and I was consistently attracted to the big and bright pictures. It's such a shame because the Mits could have really been a star attraction if presented better. If it weren't for this thread I wouldn't have even noticed it at all at the show.

I am also trying to pair up this great projector with a top notch scaler. Liebkid has stated that the crystallio II's gamma calibration made this projector shine.

I looked at the VP20 owner's manual and I don't see where it does gamma calibration. If there is a DVDO/VP20 owner here please correct me if I am wrong. The Lumagen HDP at a similar price point to the VP20 apparently has gamma calibration.

Anyone else have thoughts on which of these two may pair up better with the Mits?


I was actually going to go even cheaper with the DVDO HD+...if you look at the comparison chart you are getting a lot of the same features...I am either missing something or being too cheap?

http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_cf.php

Very much look forward to hearing about it. Also please include in your report the screen size, viewing distance, location (ht and distance) of the pj, and any other relevant parameters you can think of!


FYI, I will be feeding the WD2000U via a VP30 and sources will be Multiple HTPC's, a Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR, a Motorola 4DTV satellite receiver and a few other sources. It will be shown on a 92" Da-Lite High Power screen and the projector will be about 10" above and 2 1/2 feet behind the seats. The distance from the projector to the screen will be a little over 15'. I know that it is a little small for you but I am wanting a "plasma" like picture, hence the reason that I chose a High Power screen also with this setup, low power will be my starting point so the bulb definitely will last a long time. Also, it will be hooked up to a "Isolation transformer" that I built a few years ago and on my first HDTV, it was a noticably more saturated image after connecting it to the transformer, so YMMV if your power is not "clean"

Jim

Liebkid,
Can I use the iscan VP20 on this PJ and just get the dvi to hdmi cable? thanks.I don't know the innerworkings of the VP-20. Technically, yes. Practically, maybe.I was also at infocomm today and looked at the Mits. The blacks had almost no detail and the picture looked flat. I blamed both the source and the ambient light level but the projector did not present well. How does this projector handle the 1280 x 768 chip resolution when displaying 16:9 content? Does it mask the top and bottom of the chip and only use 720 pixels?Of course. If you feed it 720p only those pixels are used. Look at the screenshots on this forum. I can only(!)... only(!!!) imagine the quality of the display of the poor WD2000U at Infocomm... the picture taken by steeeee at the show makes it look worse than LCD PJ's were 10 years ago... what a joke... :(I am also trying to pair up this great projector with a top notch scaler. Liebkid has stated that the crystallio II's gamma calibration made this projector shine. I looked at the VP20 owner's manual and I don't see where it does gamma calibration. If there is a DVDO/VP20 owner here please correct me if I am wrong. The Lumagen HDP at a similar price point to the VP20 apparently has gamma calibration. Anyone else have thoughts on which of these two may pair up better with the Mits?I have heard good things about the Lumagen. I have never used it though. Whatever you choose, make sure you have a flexible gamma correction adjustment capability.

If you feed it 720p only those pixels are used. Look at the screenshots on this forum. :(I have heard good things about the Lumagen. I have never used it though. Whatever you choose, make sure you have a flexible gamma correction adjustment capability.

I am asking what happens if I use my Lumagen to feed it 768 pixels vs. 720 pixels. Does the projector scale everything to 768 and then mask to 720 or does it scale to 720?

I am asking what happens if I use my Lumagen to feed it 768 pixels vs. 720 pixels. Does the projector scale everything to 768 and then mask to 720 or does it scale to 720?Both, your choice via menu.

Let me ask this a different way. Has anyone done a 1:1 pixel map with this projector? Did it pixel map at 720 or 768?

Let me ask this a different way. Has anyone done a 1:1 pixel map with this projector? Did it pixel map at 720 or 768?768

I saw the projector today. The picture is very nice. One of the best. Black is quite deep. I saw Star Wars III and the black is very good. Unfortnately, I am rainbow sensitive. I keep seeing rainbows. I guess I have to look for elsewhere for a bright and good picture, SX60?

adyc,

Of all the posts about this projector, your's is the most important to me.

Bummer, I was getting really excited about this unit. The wait continues.

- Gary

I am thinking WD2000U plus Lumagen HDP.

liebkid- what settings did you leave the projector with BEFORE grayscale calibration through the Crystalio? Standard color settings? 768 mode? Did you make any color adjustments on the projector before calibrating through the Crystalio?

It is a bummer about the rainbows. It sounds like the five segment color wheel is to blame for this. It is a pitty that you can't swap out the different color wheels. Projection design have projectors that come with swappable color wheels for different application. A 2x 4seg for presentation and 4x 6seg for home theatre.

Lots of reading and so far i'm loving it :)

Question to all of you, I am just about to begin a dedicated theater from the ground up. The room is rather long, at about 13x28 feet. I came across this projector while looking for a very long throw very bright projector for this room. Ideally, I would like to set this baby up on a shelf at the very back of the room. Allowing for drywall and the false wall behind the screen, this would be about 25~26 feet back. There will be total light control, and the room will be pretty dark. I would like to do the largest size constant height 2.35 setup this would allow. Being totally new to this, i haven't done the math, but am I just out of my mind? I will ceiling mount if i have to, but I really don't want to. I will be getting a scaler too, I was looking at the vp30 but seems people are having some trouble with the aspect ratios and I really want to have a fixed lens setup. Lumagen HDP maybe? I am considering enlisting Dennis Erskine for this project, but these are just my initial thoughts. I know some of this belongs in the constant height forum, but I wonder if this pj can be the foundation. I've been a lurker here for a while and have learned a ton, and now that its finally my turn, I appreciate any and all comments or suggestions(and maybe ridicule).

-Rahul

Liebkid, hey if you end up getting this projector I sure would love to see it runing, I have a 130 inch 16x9 screen that we can use, and also see how it performs next to a 7grand Sony ruby, at 1080p ! I can feed it a home theatre pc image and a HDtivo image for refrence, and even a WMVHD in 1080p if that mits can take that type of signal. Let me know, I'm in Ventura, just a couple minutes from Santa Barbara.

Liebkid, hey if you end up getting this projector I sure would love to see it runing, I have a 130 inch 16x9 screen that we can use, and also see how it performs next to a 7grand Sony ruby, at 1080p ! I can feed it a home theatre pc image and a HDtivo image for refrence, and even a WMVHD in 1080p if that mits can take that type of signal. Let me know, I'm in Ventura, just a couple minutes from Santa Barbara.

Be sure to let us all here how this experiment goes!

Liebkid, hey if you end up getting this projector I sure would love to see it runing, I have a 130 inch 16x9 screen that we can use, and also see how it performs next to a 7grand Sony ruby, at 1080p ! I can feed it a home theatre pc image and a HDtivo image for refrence, and even a WMVHD in 1080p if that mits can take that type of signal. Let me know, I'm in Ventura, just a couple minutes from Santa Barbara.My system is up and running. PM me and come up to SB. I'd love to see a side-by-side to the Ruby. We can post most screenshots and a comparative mini-review here :)

My system is up and running. PM me and come up to SB. I'd love to see a side-by-side to the Ruby. We can post most screenshots and a comparative mini-review here :)


oh heck no, that ruby waighs 50lbs, you know how hard it was to mount a 50lb projector back on to my ceiling, also I have the silver star screen from vutek, not sure I spelled that right, huge gains on it. Well if it's to much for your projector to be moved/brought over that's ok, just wondered to see the differences and take some photos for the forum. Thought it would be a fun experiment. Plus I could never undue the HTPC setup since it's intergrated into a 50"plasma and sound system too. If you can make it up here let me know. :)

Do you guys have any more thoughts on which VP to match with this that is affortable? Is the VP20 DVDO the best bang for the buck? I want to pull the trigger on this and us it on my current projector then get the WD2000u in a week or so after...Is the HD+ all that bad??

Thanks in advance

Hi all,

I finally got a replacement DVI cable and my projector is running perfectly now (previously had HDCP issues with the old cable). I watched "I Robot" and "The Fifth Element." All I can say is WOW. This is one fine projector!!!

Rainbows? Gosh, I don't see any imperfections in the picture at all. It is bright, good shadow detail, rich and vibrant colors, and very sharp detail. I am NOT using a video processor (can't afford it right now). I am sending the pj a 720P picture from a Denon 2910 DVD player via DVI. I've been fooling around with the settings. But my screen won't get here for another week at least (Da-Lite C manual pull CSR with High Contrast Matte White (but is actually grey) screen). So no sense talking about settings yet.

I'm an "average" consumer. So, I really don't need a "perfect" picture. But, I am fussy about what appeals to me. This projector works and keeps working with truly brilliant picture quality. I do plan on a professional calibration once I get it mounted on the ceiling and the screen installed (at least a couple of weeks away). Meanwhile, fooling around with the remote to change picture settings is fine for now.

The place I got mine from has a 72 hour refund policy. So, I felt as if I had a way out if I didn't like it. But, wow...no chance I'd return it. I've truly enjoyed Liebkid's more professional opinion and I'm waiting for Projector Central's review. But, from my point of view, this projector gives me what I'm looking for.

Next important milestone is the screen in a week or so. Of course, blu-ray high def DVDs is high on my list of upgrades. And, I will seriously consider the Lumagen VP. But, for now, this pj is working for me.

Marcus

Is there any light in your room desert pilot? How would you say this projector would look in a room with a fair amount of ambient light (enough to read a book)? Also, can you post screen shots when you get a chance.

Thanks

So if I fed the Mits with a 1280x768 picture, would I be able to bypass all its internal scaling, since I'm going to have an outboard VP? Has that been determined yet? I can't remember if its been covered in this thread or not.

So if I fed the Mits with a 1280x768 picture, would I be able to bypass all its internal scaling, since I'm going to have an outboard VP? Has that been determined yet? I can't remember if its been covered in this thread or not.Yes, if you feed the Mits with a 1280x768 signal, you'll bypass all its internal scaling. Either feed it from a PC or from a enxternal VP outputting pixel matched 1280x768. That is THE ONLY WAY TO GO for top-notch image quality.

Yes, if you feed the Mits with a 1280x768 signal, you'll bypass all its internal scaling. Either feed it from a PC or from a enxternal VP outputting pixel matched 1280x768. That is THE ONLY WAY TO GO for top-notch image quality.Thanks!

Man, this planning stage of the theater is really testing my patience, especially with all you guys saying how great this pj is! :rolleyes:

Yes, if you feed the Mits with a 1280x768 signal, you'll bypass all its internal scaling. Either feed it from a PC or from a enxternal VP outputting pixel matched 1280x768. That is THE ONLY WAY TO GO for top-notch image quality.

Hi Liebkid,

I am very interested in this projector. Here's my question. Are the pixels square then? If they are, then 1280 x 768 would be 15:9 ratio, but this does not bother me since I have an HTPC. If this is the case, I would think you would want to show 1280 x 720 with tiny black bars on the top and bottom. Anyways, I am so excited to see your screen shots. Looks like I found a replacement for my LT260K.

thanks for your observations!

Toon

Hi Liebkid,

I am very interested in this projector. Here's my question. Are the pixels square then? If they are, then 1280 x 768 would be 15:9 ratio, but this does not bother me since I have an HTPC. If this is the case, I would think you would want to show 1280 x 720 with tiny black bars on the top and bottom. Anyways, I am so excited to see your screen shots. Looks like I found a replacement for my LT260K.

thanks for your observations!

Toon
Yes, pixels are square and native aspect ratio is 15:9. When you playback 720p material, the extra 48 pixels are not used so they are the black bars on the top and bottom. I can tell you the PJ delivers better image quality than the screenshots show. I have no clue what people are doing to their WD2000Us both posting here and PMing me that there are no blacks, colors suck, its not bright, contrast is bad or that there are rainbows everywhere. This is simply the most sensational PJ I have seen in years, price aside. I have been watching 720p and 1080i content these last few nights and I am at awe every time. Last night I saw Shrek in 720p from an HTPC, and I could even concentrate on the movie with the quality and fine details I have on screen. Calibrated, the black levels and shadow detail of this projector is the best on any video projector at any price I have ever seen period. I do not care what the specs say. It is sensational. I was blown away when I first I saw it at a commercial screening a month ago and started this thread, and I am blow away every time i turn it on and see what this single-chip machine can do for someone that is the biggest perfectionist I know, me! I throw at the WD2000U all my gamma calibration test screens and I see throughout the spectrum, detail at all gray levels I cannot even see on my Sony Trinitron Tube. So, either I am doing something very right getting it adjusted to spec or I have no clue under which conditions many people are viewing this machine and getting it adjusted. The only thing I can say to end any negative reports on this PJ is to invite anyone that wants to come by to see this thing in person and then tell me personally they think something's wrong with it. I have already sold my BenQ 8720 and, dear folks, resolution aside, side by side to a brand new $30K PD Action Model-III 1080p PJ that I have been testing for a while, its puts it completely to shame in every conceivable way, blacks, CR, colors, gamma ramp, shadow detail... you name it. I just placed an order for a brand new $50K (...plus) Christie 3-Chip 1920x1080 8000 Lumens Xenon powered PJ that I will be getting in October. I cannot wait to see how that looks like and compares (again, resolution aside) to the single-chip WD2000U that costs about 15 times less! I cannot wait, that's all I can say. Mitsubishi has done a sensational product. Simply sensational.

so leibkid,

would you recommend it even if it wasn't coupled with a VP? i mean you've got me really psyched about this projector but what can i expect from it without the use of a VP? also i'm thinking of going with a 110" to 120" screen.





thanks :D

Liebkid,

I concur. I am currently watching Pearl Harbor on my WD2000U. I do not have a VP. It has not been professionally calibrated yet. I am waiting on my high contrast screen to arrive. And yet...the picture is awesome. Plenty of crisp detail, blacks - colors - whites ...doesn't matter... they're all great. I am feeding the projector a 720P image via DVI from a Denon 2910 DVD player. Just your basic hookup and user controlled settings. Simply awesome.

Once I get my screen installed and a professional calibration I'll make a final report to other users of this forum. I purchased an OPPO DV-970HD. I think I can control the picture better with it than the Denon (which'll move to my bedroom).

Meanwhile, I need to refill my glass of wine and finish the movie...

Marcus

so liebkid, would you recommend it even if it wasn't coupled with a VP? i mean you've got me really psyched about this projector but what can i expect from it without the use of a VP? also Ii'm thinking of going with a 110" to 120" screen. thanks :DIf you can, feed it from an HTPC where you'll have all color correction controls available via software. If you don't have an HTPC feed it via a DVD player and whatever other sources that offer the most complete set of adjustments. As long as you keep in mind the WD2000U by itself offers little color correction possibilities (very limited via DVI) and basically no gamma correction what so ever aside from a few, fairly useless presets that do little to help, you'll be fine. The good news is that out-of-the-box it is really good to start with.Liebkid, I concur. I am currently watching Pearl Harbor on my WD2000U. I do not have a VP. It has not been professionally calibrated yet. I am waiting on my high contrast screen to arrive. And yet...the picture is awesome. Plenty of crisp detail, blacks - colors - whites ...doesn't matter... they're all great. I am feeding the projector a 720P image via DVI from a Denon 2910 DVD player. Just your basic hookup and user controlled settings. Simply awesome. Once I get my screen installed and a professional calibration I'll make a final report to other users of this forum. I purchased an OPPO DV-970HD. I think I can control the picture better with it than the Denon (which'll move to my bedroom). Meanwhile, I need to refill my glass of wine and finish the movie.Marcus, once you get a real screen and the PJ calibrated you'll be blown away. Your life will never be the same and you'll never find (any time soon at least) any other PJ that will give you so much satisfaction for the money. Today I watched a clean 720p feed of Taxi Driver in H264 compression. Played back via Zoom Player using FFDshow coded, I controlled every single parameter from gamma ramp, color balance, block and adaptive noise reduction, V+H sharpness, etc. This is one tough movie for a DLP projector... lots of scenes at night, shot with high-speed film and very grainy in many scenes... Well, I was blown away from beginning to end. If I tried to find a flaw in the picture quality, I could only honestly say... darn... its not 1080p. Other than that, this is one great DLP projector. Honestly I cannot wait for the "official" reviews to come out and slash it to mud. I'd laugh so hard knowing for sure these "pros" judge products from their "calibration instruments" and "mathematical charts", but never from the subjective point of view that matters... the real-world viewing experience. Oh and folks, the installer that calibrated my PJ (keep in mind this is a person that that this ONLY for a living and handles display devices every day) called me yesterday to tell me he had bought one from himself for his house after he saw the picture it delivered at mine for the money. Now, really, should I say more??? :)

Oh and Marcus, enjoy your wine :)

Liebkid....thank you...I did enjoy another glass or two (hehehe).

I just finished watching Denzel Washington's "Man On Fire." OMG! The colors were truly amazing. Simply awesome.

By the way. Sound (to me) is as important as the film. In my opinion, movie soundtracks are modern day opera scores. I have Polk's LSI9's up front with an LSIC for the center and LSIFX's for the surrounds. Add TWO Polk PSW505 subs. Powered by an Outlaw 300 Watt in to 4 ohm "direct current" amplifier and an outlaw 990 Preamp. The picture and audio made me feel as if I was part of the film.

Yeah...I guess it'll get terrible reviews. But, that the heck. Mine works and works well for me. I am so glad I finally made a decision and got the darn thing.

Marcus...hummmmmm, I still have about 35 more movies in my collection to watch.

Hey Liebkid, I never heard back from you on doing that heads up comparison between our two projecotors! :rolleyes: Maybe you dind't see my reply/post...Are you able to make it? How big/heavy is that thing to haul over??????
.
..
Ohhh also check out my website.. Deanzsyclone.multiply.com to see the 130" screen that we could shine it on.

Hey Liebkid, I never heard back from you on doing that heads up comparison between our two projecotors! :rolleyes: Maybe you dind't see my reply/post...Are you able to make it? How big/heavy is that thing to haul over?????? Ohhh also check out my website.. Deanzsyclone.multiply.com to see the 130" screen that we could shine it on.Sorry, I cannot possibibly unrig my setup and hault it around. That is simply not an option :)

Sorry, I cannot possibibly unrig my setup and hault it around. That is simply not an option :)

Oh well I tried. I guess yours is mounted on the ceiling also, or in some sort of quiet box? Thanks for letting me know, take care.

Liebkid,

I noticed on your pic's that the black bars (top and bottom) are much darker after calibration; I thought there is no adjustment that will lower the "out of picture frame" dark area; i.e., in that area the pixels are as off as they can be and cannot be made to pass any less light. Perhaps this is incorrect?

I know a filter can lower the light and result in a darker black level, however I recall that you are not using a filter (after calibration).

How did your calibrator manage to accomplish that darker level?

Thank you.

Liebkid,

I noticed on your pic's that the black bars (top and bottom) are much darker after calibration; I thought there is no adjustment that will lower the "out of picture frame" dark area; i.e., in that area the pixels are as off as they can be and cannot be made to pass any less light. Perhaps this is incorrect?

I know a filter can lower the light and result in a darker black level, however I recall that you are not using a filter (after calibration).

How did your calibrator manage to accomplish that darker level?

Thank you.If I knew I wouldn't have spent $$$$ on hiring someone to do the job, now, wouldn't I? :)

To help everyone adjust their WD2000U (of course this will work with any 1280x768 native res PJ) I have made a few charts that can help you tune-up and calibrate colors, gray scale, gamma ramp, and check for flicker, precise focus, pluge, and overscan issues. Feed these in full screen from an HTPC pixel matched to the 1280x768 resolution of the PJ.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/wd2000u_adj.jpg


Here is a download link (http://www.youthdelivery.com/wd2000u_adj.zip) with a zip file containing uncompressed BMP shots of each screen for calibration. Enjoy.

Dead link :(

Dead link :(Sorry, you just made me aware my server is down. Not sure why...

I am also looking for answers, if the service menu is not accessible I might have to get an external video processor..Is there any video processor for HTPC's?


Maybe I missed it in the deluge of posts, but why would you need a video processor for your HTPC? Can you not set it to 1280x768?

Looking at the manual from the mits site all the color adjustments you'd need are user accessable. (gain, bias, gamma, etc).

Maybe I missed it in the deluge of posts, but why would you need a video processor for your HTPC? Can you not set it to 1280x768? Looking at the manual from the mits site all the color adjustments you'd need are user accessable. (gain, bias, gamma, etc).You don't need a video processor for an HTPC? As for the WD2000U's color adjustments accessible via the user menu, gain and bias are limited, gamma is fairly useless (a couple of presets only that do very little for you) and, when connected via DVI, most of these are disabled as adjustable user options (they are only available for analogue inputs). If you connect the WD2000U to anythign but DVI, you're run into image quality loss issues that no menu can save you from.

Purevideo sucks, everythign about it. Even its de-interlacing and scaling capabilities are mediocre when playing back SD DVD or HD content. Use good third-party decoding software:
- FFDSHOW for all your codecs and video playback control (this thing does e v e r y t h i n g you can imagine in real-time)... if only there was a video projector with this type of controls.
- Zoom player, the best player you can get for positively every video format.
- PowerStrip to control the video card's final output and core/memory clock settings.

You're set :)


I disagree. FFDSHOW will not do cadence on poorly/improperly flagged 1080i or 480i content. Even with every dscaler plugin you throw at it. Pure video will. Unless there is some special build out there that address this. Getting FFDSHOW to even do MPEG2 relaibly is problematioc at best. I've found the NV decoder to be robust and reliable.

As to scaling, Pure Video works great when properly used. Some DVD player(software) vendors use the video process blit (the function that deinterlaces and scales using "Pure Video") to scale/deinterlace to the video native resolution (IE: 480i->480p) then they call StretchBlit to scale to the display size. This completely hoses the image. Somtime they then crop and scale AGAIN making matters worse.

My experience has shown that when the "pure video" technology is properly used the results are fantastic.

Additionally the current drivers from both ATI and NVIDIA have pretty much resulted in no need for Powerstrip. Seriously, I haven't had to use it for years. Powerstrip is just a nightmare to deal with and should only be used as a last resort.

I will attest to the unquestionable utility of FFDSHOW for H.264 and other MP4 variants. I use it for that and AAC->DD transcoiding as well.

Anyway, my $.02.

Here are my specs for my new setup and I would love all your thoughts...

1- WD2000u - of course :p
2- Dalite High Contrast Cinema Contour 120"
3- DVI cable 40+ feet to feed PJ.
4- DVDO VP30 with Deinterlacing Card.
5- DVDO Denon Modified SDI out DVD player with HDMI coverter to DVI... This should allow me to convert the 480p signal from the DVD player up to 720p or 1080i...No 1080p but I am sure I can live with it. The quality of the DVD should be amazing!
6- Directv DVI to VP30.
7- Xbox360 Component to VP30 to convert to DVI.
8- Projector will be mounted on the ceiling and I can place it up to 18 feet away if needed and I will be sitting approximately 20 feet away.

That's it...from all the readings, I believe this should be one smoking system! Bring on the comments you guys are great.

You don't need a video processor for an HTPC? As for the WD2000U's color adjustments accessible via the user menu, gain and bias are limited, gamma is fairly useless (a couple of presets only that do very little for you) and, when connected via DVI, most of these are disabled as adjustable user options (they are only available for analogue inputs). If you connect the WD2000U to anythign but DVI, you're run into image quality loss issues that no menu can save you from.

Hey, liebkid-

It seems then that a DVI signal at 768x1280 fed to the Mits not only bypasses the Mits' scaling but also the color gains/biases and white/black level settings. I'm curious as to what your projectors settings were set at by your calibrator since the REAL calibration took place over the Crystallis. Did he leave the projector at defaults...?

Hey, liebkid- It seems then that a DVI signal at 768x1280 fed to the Mits not only bypasses the Mits' scaling but also the color gains/biases and white/black level settings. I'm curious as to what your projectors settings were set at by your calibrator since the REAL calibration took place over the Crystalio-II. Did he leave the projector at defaults...?Yes, everything default, except contrast set to -5, BrilliantColor set to 1 and Dynamic Gamma set On. I have been reading a bit about the Dynamic Gamma feature and it seems that the projector pioneers some sort of an electronic "iris" system via its dynamic gamma processing (that reacts instantly to the pictures condition, therefore with no lag associated with mechanical irises of light flags). Whatever it is and how it works, it does it seamlessly, there are positively no artifacts added to the picture and greatly improves blacks and shadow detail. The technologies underneath this projector surprise me more and more and the picture it delivers for the money is absolutely stunning.

I did not even see the dynamic gamma option..gotta read the manual :)

Here are my specs for my new setup and I would love all your thoughts...

1- WD2000u - of course :p
2- Dalite High Contrast Cinema Contour 120"
3- DVI cable 40+ feet to feed PJ.
4- DVDO VP30 with Deinterlacing Card.
5- DVDO Denon Modified SDI out DVD player with HDMI coverter to DVI... This should allow me to convert the 480p signal from the DVD player up to 720p or 1080i...No 1080p but I am sure I can live with it. The quality of the DVD should be amazing!
6- Directv DVI to VP30.
7- Xbox360 Component to VP30 to convert to DVI.
8- Projector will be mounted on the ceiling and I can place it up to 18 feet away if needed and I will be sitting approximately 20 feet away.

That's it...from all the readings, I believe this should be one smoking system! Bring on the comments you guys are great.

With 20' seating distance...you may think about going with a bit larger screen.
I'm using an 13hd(sanyo plv-60 clone) which is one of the first 16x9 native lcd pj's and my back row of seats is 18-19' back from a 118" screen and it's a bit too small for me. Though for my front row which is 13-14' back it's fine. Screen door is just starting to be visible from the front row with my now 5yr. old lcd.

Imo with 20' seating distance and this being dlp which is smoother(much less sde) than my older lcd...I'd start with something in the 126" range or maybe even a bit larger.

Ken,

I wish I could but the wall slopes on one side and that is the max that I can get...I currently have the Xp21n with a 110" 4x3 screen and I wish it was a little bigger. I will double check to see if I can go any bigger but I think I am maxed out at the 120". Do you see any problems or suggestions other than that?

Thanks a lot.

Matt

Yes, everything default, except contrast set to -5, BrilliantColor set to 1 and Dynamic Gamma set On. I have been reading a bit about the Dynamic Gamma feature and it seems that the projector pioneers some sort of an electronic "iris" system via its dynamic gamma processing (that reacts instantly to the pictures condition, therefore with no lag associated with mechanical irises of light flags). Whatever it is and how it works, it does it seamlessly, there are positively no artifacts added to the picture and greatly improves blacks and shadow detail. The technologies underneath this projector surprise me more and more and the picture it delivers for the money is absolutely stunning.

Cool- that's exactly what I wanted to know. The dynamic gamma feature sounds pretty sweet- especially if it doesn't create any artifacts. And at 150" you'd definitely see them!

Thanks for all your work on this, liebkid!

Ken,

I wish I could but the wall slopes on one side and that is the max that I can get...I currently have the Xp21n with a 110" 4x3 screen and I wish it was a little bigger. I will double check to see if I can go any bigger but I think I am maxed out at the 120". Do you see any problems or suggestions other than that?

Thanks a lot.

Matt

Hey Matt,

I know what you mean.

Between only having 8.5' ceilings in my basement theater and a large center channel(with dual 15"woofers) I'lll be lucky to fit the carada 126" screen I'm wanting to move up to. It's always something isn't it. ;)

Ken

Here is something interesting that I found reading the owners manual...I wonder how much of a performance hit we will take?

"When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, images
may appear darker than those projected in
the case of tabletop mounting. This isn’t a product
malfunction."

Liebkid can you comment on this? This must be due to inverting the image for ceiling mount.

Here is something interesting that I found reading the owners manual...I wonder how much of a performance hit we will take? "When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, images may appear darker than those projected in the case of tabletop mounting. This isn’t a product
malfunction." Liebkid can you comment on this? This must be due to inverting the image for ceiling mount.They are just covering their end as many screens have a narrow ideal viewing angle with quick light fall-off from all sides. If not close to eye level, many times ceiling mounted PJs are far above the best reflection axis of the screen resulting in disappointingly dim pictured. It has nothing to do with the projector itself... no projector get dimmer because its mounted upside down! You need to carefully study the specs of the screens you are considering for your HT and measure the deflection angle and seating position of your particular setup against the stated viewing angle of the screen to make sure you choose one that works. As a rule of thumb the higher the screen gain the narrower the viewing angle. For example, if you ceiling mount a PJ matched with 2.8 DaLite High-Power screen you might get a pitch dim image... much dimmer picture than with a flat 0 gain white matte screen. I, as a rule of thumb, try to mount all my Projectors as close as possible to eye level, just fair above where heads will cut-off the picture. That's where, regardless, on ALL screens, you'll get the brighter and best image from them.

Perfect...I will do my homework and get ready to roll...I am pretty sold on the Da-lite HCCC screen. I can't mount the PJ eye level, but I will double check with them to make sure I won't be disappointed.

Thank you very much

"no projector get dimmer because its mounted upside down! "

It may not be that far-fetched.

The JVC Gxxx series were supposed to be adjusted in the in-use orientation. I believe it had to do with the fact that the lamps are filled with gas, and due to buoyancy the arc strays a bit from the geometric center of the lamp.

Inverting the pj won't invert the arc, so the geomtric relationship to the optical path is altered.

Perhaps this is an issue only in the higher power lamps (bigger envelope?).

I was reading the owner's manual(online) and on page 15 it says: When a 16:9 image is kept displayed for a long time before displaying 4:3 image, the afterimages of the black barsmay appear on the 4:3 image screen. Consult your dealer in this case.

Is this a typo or what? I never had ANY image retention on my DLP and especially since there are no black bars on a 16:9 image(depending on AR), but is this a typo?


Owner's manual link (http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/mitsubishi_manual_WD2000U.pdf)

I don't see how image retention is possible, the mirrors are in one of two states, reflecting or not.

I have a Mits HC3, which is LCD, and it has the same disclaimer. I think it probably just crept into the caveat section of the manual. I've never heard of image retention on DLP.

Jonathan

There is no such thing as image retention on DLP Technology.

liebkid,

excellent thread I am impressed!

I just bought an Infocus IN76 and after reading this thread it really got me thinking. Any comparisons? Any magazine/website reviews on the WD2000u?One advantage I think the IN76 has is the 720p native resolution.Would the WD2000u though be much better than it and worthy an "upgrade"? Also I live in a country (Cyprus, Europe) where the are no ISF calibrators... Which tools should I buy to calibrate as much as I can my proctors and any new ones I buy? Sorry for asking this in this thread but liebkid your knowledge is so great on the subject that I think you can really help me...

liebkid,

excellent thread I am impressed!

I just bought an Infocus IN76 and after reading this thread it really got me thinking. Any comparisons? Any magazine/website reviews on the WD2000u?One advantage I think the IN76 has is the 720p native resolution.Would the WD2000u though be much better than it and worthy an "upgrade"? Also I live in a country (Cyprus, Europe) where the are no ISF calibrators... Which tools should I buy to calibrate as much as I can my projector and any new ones I buy? Sorry for asking this in this thread but liebkid your knowledge is so great on the subject that I think you can really help me...

Also I am really interested for a much more detailed comparison between this projector and the PD 1080P projector you also own. And any comparisons to the Ruby would also be great.

If this projector is as good as the two above and taking into account its price then what can I say...I am getting one tomorrow

liebkid, excellent thread I am impressed! I just bought an Infocus IN76 and after reading this thread it really got me thinking. Any comparisons? Any magazine/website reviews on the WD2000u?One advantage I think the IN76 has is the 720p native resolution.Would the WD2000u though be much better than it and worthy an "upgrade"? Also I live in a country (Cyprus, Europe) where the are no ISF calibrators... Which tools should I buy to calibrate as much as I can my proctors and any new ones I buy? Sorry for asking this in this thread but liebkid your knowledge is so great on the subject that I think you can really help me...I have not seen the IN76 so I cannot compare it. The WD2000U IS NATIVE 720p though! When you feed it a 720P signal it just doesn't use the extra 48 pixels, when you feed a full 1280x768, then it uses the whole DMD. That's the advantage. You get the best of both worlds :)

liebkid: Since you are clearly the one most in the 'know' about the Mits pj's, do you have any estimate of when a 1080p descendant of the 2000 might appear (a 1-chip dlp with the 0.95" chip)? Optoma, Infocus, Samsung, etc., are bringing out these units later this year (or early next), so Mits will presumably try keep up with them.

liebkid: Since you are clearly the one most in the 'know' about the Mits pj's, do you have any estimate of when a 1080p descendant of the 2000 might appear (a 1-chip dlp with the 0.95" chip)? Optoma, Infocus, Samsung, etc., are bringing out these units later this year (or early next), so Mits will presumably try keep up with them.Ben, I'd say a year. There is more money to be made in the consumer market (aka Optoma, Infocus, Samsung, etc.) than on the large venue world. While the Mitsubishi HD4000 has been selling like hotcakes for example, it retails for about the same price as the WD2000U, with much (much) inferior specs, less features... less everything... you really can't compare the two units... they are night and day. So, where does Mitsu make money?... on a mass produced consumer HT they sell in quantity and costs them little or on pro-quality PJ that is expensive to manufacture, has a smaller market and ends up at the retail shelves for about the same?... I think we'll see variants of HD4000 as 1080p machines, before Mitsu ventures in making a 1080p WD2000U. So I'd say a year, and it will be worth the wait, because at the ridiculous price 1080p HT consumer machines are coming out at, if Mitsubishi does it right and base their new 1080P version of the WD2000U in the very same chassis, they'll have a huge winner on their hands.

You don't need a video processor for an HTPC? As for the WD2000U's color adjustments accessible via the user menu, gain and bias are limited, gamma is fairly useless (a couple of presets only that do very little for you) and, when connected via DVI, most of these are disabled as adjustable user options (they are only available for analogue inputs). If you connect the WD2000U to anythign but DVI, you're run into image quality loss issues that no menu can save you from.

Well, my Mits will be here today so I'll find out.

With my Panny 700U and the previous SE20HD I had no need for a video processor. I could get to gain and bias in either the service menus or the user menus.

One of the points of using an HTPC is to eliminate the need for such devices, IMHO.

Anyway, I've got a sencore CP5000 and VP403 setup so I'll get some actual numbers from the beast with its defualt settings and see where things fall. It will be unfortuante if you need to use an external device to get it to track D65K properly becuase that will mean you're reprocessing the video excessivly and that is not desired.

Anyone got any info on the service menu goo for this critter?

Thanks for the info liebkid, it's been helpful.

I called Mits today to ask about the service menu and he had a few comments to me. There is a menu that GIVES information regarding the projector(no adjustments can be made with this menu, just information), he told me that you need to hit UP ARROW, DOWN ARROW and POWER all at the same time(on the remote I believe). He also told me that there is a Service CD that you can order (part # S/M WD2000 ) and with that and a laptop, you can adjust the projector via the Serial port. He (Harry) also told me that it does not VOID the warranty UNLESS you adjust a setting to an extreme that causes DAMAGE to the projector they also will not fix any settings you mess with (and he told me that they KNOW what the original settings are) if you screw up how the projector functions. He told me that you can order the CD from mits parts(888-307-8404) and I do not know the price of the CD. I personally will be ordering my Projector tommorrow.

Jim

I called Mits today to ask about the service menu and he had a few comments to me. There is a menu that GIVES information regarding the projector(no adjustments can be made with this menu, just information), he told me that you need to hit UP ARROW, DOWN ARROW and POWER all at the same time(on the remote I believe). He also told me that there is a Service CD that you can order (part # S/M WD2000 ) and with that and a laptop, you can adjust the projector via the Serial port. He (Harry) also told me that it does not VOID the warranty UNLESS you adjust a setting to an extreme that causes DAMAGE to the projector they also will not fix any settings you mess with (and he told me that they KNOW what the original settings are) if you screw up how the projector functions. He told me that you can order the CD from mits parts(888-307-8404) and I do not know the price of the CD. I personally will be ordering my Projector tomorrow.All right, so that explains it why this PJ isn't just your typical "punch-in-the-codes-on-the-remote-for-the-service-menu" thing... you need software operated via a serial connection. Makes sense. I don't know anyone in their right minds that would NOT write down the PJ's original settings before start messing with them though :) I'll order the CD, not to calibrate anything as the PJ is just perfect to me, but as a curiosity to see what it is that one can do behind-the-scenes of the PJ's service adjustments. Thanks for sharing the info with us, Jim :)

That's GREAT info, Jim!

liebkid- Let us know how much that CD runs, if you could- we'll look forward to your behind-the-scenes funtionality of cd adjustments!

liebkid,

What is the closest distance the projector can be placed to a 100" diagonal screen using ISCO's wide angle lens and the zoom on the projector?

thanks

liebkid, What is the closest distance the projector can be placed to a 100" diagonal screen using ISCO's wide angle lens and the zoom on the projector?Whatever the math is, with the ISCO-II 0.75X wide-angle lens and the PJ at its widest zoom setting, I get 159" diagonal (16:9 aspect ratio) at exactly 16 feet from the front of the Isco lens.

I'm still not clear about 3 things after reading the online pdf manual.

1. I want to shelf mount on the back wall, about 7 to 7.5 feet up. How much below the projector lens can I place the top of the screen (max vertical offset downward measured at the top of the screen).

2. At a distance from the backwall to the screen of 16.5 feet, what is the diagonal screen size (range in screen sizes) for a 16:9 image.

3. I don't want to use an HTPC or VP (just DVD and directv) can the projector put out a 1:2.35 image without using special lenses.

Thanks, this will help with my decision making.

I have not seen the IN76 so I cannot compare it. The WD2000U IS NATIVE 720p though! When you feed it a 720P signal it just doesn't use the extra 48 pixels, when you feed a full 1280x768, then it uses the whole DMD. That's the advantage. You get the best of both worlds :)

I was looking for that info. Awesome news. Thanks!

Alas Visual Apex led me astray. A package did show up this week but it was just the adapter to go with my existing Chief mount. :-( The PJ will be here Tuesday via FedEx (I got tracking nubmers and everything! :-). So my eval with the colorimiter will be delayed a bit.

And to VFRJIM: good to see another BUD freak up here. If your dish size is not measured in meters then it's just a pizza dish. :-)

And to VFRJIM: good to see another BUD freak up here. If you're dish size is not measured in meters then it's just a pizza dish. :-)


ABSOLUTELY! I just wish that others would do the same.


My projector will be here in about a week, anyone interested in where I purchased it from are welcome to PM me.

Jim

Well, I got it up on the mount and running. First impressions, no actual measurements taken:

Out of the box 720p from Comcast 6412 and DVD/H.264 from my HTPC look awesome. I have not had a chance to measure anyting with the colorimiter but gut-check eyeball likes what it sees.

It has a bit of a high pitched whine to it, even in low lamp mode. The color wheel I imagine, as I've noticed this with other DLP units.

One thing that I've yet to address: 480i via component looks like garbage.

EDIT: after a reboot of the cable box 480i to the unit via YPbPr seems to be working fine. Weird.

My previous projectors were a PLV70 and more recently Panny 700u. This thing is a light cannon, even in "low" lamp mode and very reminisent of the PLV70 in light output.

I'm using it with a DaLite HCCV 1.1 gain screen.

Edit: I would like to feed this 720p and get 1:1 pixel mapping. With analog inputs you can go to "real" mode and kinda get this. With the DVI input I cannot see a way to do this. My reasoning is pretty simple: my screen is 16:9 and 16:10. This is a minor quip and not a big deal.

On final note before I retire to re-program my MX-950: The cooling fan, or maybe it's the color wheel seems to change speed. I'm finding it somewhat distracting. At this point it is probably a matter of getting used to the new sounds vs. the old.

-Ian

I just put mine up last night and I agree, the variable speed fan is annoying. The good thing is in low lamp mode and with any foreground sound, it is inaudible. I hear the color wheel at start up, but not after. Of course, I can't hear much beyond 12 KHz. Right now I am using the low temp setting, BC=1, and dynamic gamma. I'll have to experiment because the colors seem to desaturate as the brightness increases. With the low color temp, the grays seem a little too red to my eye, it will be interesting to see how it measures. One other problem I had was initial focus. Being powered focus only, I could not see the OSD to know what I was doing. That coupled with the fact it comes with no user manual made it difficult. I watched a few segments of The Incredibles and I thought it was incredible. Nice to be able to see detail in night scenes. The deinterlacer does a decent job, a few jaggies noted here and there, but not too egregious. As soon as I do some more experimenting I will start a tweaks thread.

The manual (can be found online from Mitsubishi) says the unit can be turned off by cutting power without a cool down period. This is what Infocus recommends with the X1 (4000 hours rated lamp life), and it makes sense to me as when you remove power, no more heat goes into the lamp, so to minimize lamp stress you want to cool off as slow as possible, i.e. no fan. The only issue I see is can the case and innards take the heat without the circulation.

Good news!

I just placed an order for the WD2000U! My dealer called and told me that they're backordered, and if I didn't get this one, I'd have to wait a while. Since I was planning to order tomorrow anyways, I placed my order!

I'm not sure when it'll be here yet, but I ordered a Da-lite High Contrast Cinema Vision screen to go with it, 45x105in. Right now, I'm just going to cover up the extra width so that the screen is 45x80, and add a lens and VP in a few months.

July 7th I get the screen! I can't wait!

... Right now I am using the low temp setting, BC=1, and dynamic gamma. I'll have to experiment because the colors seem to desaturate as the brightness increases.

I haven't tried the BC stuff. I set the mode to "theater" lamp to "low" and for the YPbPr input "setup" to "off" from "auto."

With these settings things just look great. Yeah, if I get time I'm sure the colorimiter will show some issues but at this point things look so good I'm not too motivated to tweak them.

One thing I noticed is that the projector tries to do the right thing with NTSC input (the "setup" setting noted above) and when it sees 480i content it clips blacks below 7.5 IRE and expands the 7.5 - 100IRE range to the full 0-255 range in the digital space. Some products call this "expanded" or "enhanced" blacks. What it does is kill shadow detail if this process has already been applied previously and in my case I think Comcast does this to all of their digital feeds. So applying it again crushed blacks severly. So, if you're watching TV and the scene seems way to dark, resisit the urge to hammer on the brightness setting and just try switcing the "setup" setting from "auto" to "off."

This PJ is a killer value. Remeber when you saw your first HD and would just watch HD becuase it was HD? I've found myself doing that again with the Mits.

I may be contacting Whisperflow for a hushbox. :-)

I may be contacting Whisperflow for a hushbox. :-)

Good thing mine is going to be located behind my rear wall :)


Mine will arrive on Wed and the HP screen is already mounted....

Well... I am happy I first spotted the WD2000U and started this thread... it is really one heck of a machine. I've had mine for almost 4 weeks and don't even care about reading 1080p projector news. Till something comes along in the 1080p world in this price range and with this level of performance and features, the WD2000U is THE projector I will NOT be replacing :) People who haven't seen this machine in action have no clue what they are missing and how much money they are throwing away in other machines. Nothing beats the WD2000U in the 720p world and when Mitsubishi decides to do a 1080p upgraded model out of this one (even if with no other upgrade other than popping a 1080p DMD inside), nothing will beat it either :)

Oh and I got a couple day ago the Service Menu CD... its all there... gamma, color correction, gains, biases...calibration to the exhaustion... the works... and ...forget about getting an external video processor. Just get the Service Menu CD, connect it to your PC and calibrate the PJ to spec like a Pro... and there are a gazillion tricks you can play with on the service menu with the BrilliantColor feature to make it really come to life and work for verey possible installation and calibration scenario:)

That is truly awesome news. I look forward to receiving my WD2000 soon. Thanks to all for such a great helpful thread.

gotta agree with 12gage......i am totally psyched now about getting this machine! :eek:

well at least it has pro inputs, HV lens shift (which the optoma doesnt) and tons of brigthness. i'd prefer 2000ansi and 2000:1 than 250ansi and 4000:1 ! the image has snap, kick ass liveliness at least.
of course if one day we can have 2000ansi and 4000:1 :) :)

for 4m meters screens, this is the way, better than high gain.

the days of no brigthness ht pjs should be over !

I'm meeting with my installer later today, so I'll be sure to tell him about using the CD to calibrate. Do you think I should order the CD myself, or let them do it? They have an ISF calibrator they bring out, BTW.

can't see the screnshots, there're still available ?

can't see the screnshots, there're still available ?My web hosting service DotEasy.com (the worse out of Canada) has not been replying me for the last almost 2 weeks since I stopped being able to access the FTP server and have been trying to reach their tech support. I have no backup files of the screenshots other than the ones I uploaded and till they re-instate service, I am locked out. Sorry.

hi :)
ok thanks.

btw, what's the real brightness measure at a temp of 6500 if not D65 ?
realy like this machine. dont have it but what i read here and the specs makes for a kick ass
big image (3-4meters) pj with the snap of a tv rather than a dim DLP.

...No zoom for letterboxed content. Now, if you're using a HTPC this is not an issue as you can zoom fine and I do when using the HTPC (about 90% of my viewing).

But if you're using something else, in my case a Toshiba RDX2 DVD/Harddisk recorder slaved to my big dish reciever then it is an issue. For example, most of the stuff on SciFi is broadcast as letterbxed content in a 4:3 frame. The WD2000 has no ZOOM mode for this type of content.

If you're using a decent outboard processor this is no big deal, but I am not.

Half the aspect modes Mits provides are useless. 16:9 for anamorephic and "auto" which does 4:3 stuff right works as you'd expect. The "real" and, um, the other one, "full" I think it's called, are just pointless.

A huge omission IMHO. This is just one of those WTF things where you scratch your head and wonder what the hell Mitsubishi was thinking.

-Ian

...No zoom for letterboxed content. Now, if you're using a HTPC this is not an issue as you can zoom fine and I do when using the HTPC (about 90% of my viewing).

But if you're using something else, in my case a Toshiba RDX2 DVD/Harddisk recorder slaved to my big dish reciever then it is an issue. For example, most of the stuff on SciFi is broadcast as letterbxed content in a 4:3 frame. The WD2000 has no ZOOM mode for this type of content.

If you're using a decent outboard processor this is no big deal, but I am not.

Half the aspect modes Mits provides are useless. 16:9 for anamorephic and "auto" which does 4:3 stuff right works as you'd expect. The "real" and, um, the other one, "full" I think it's called, are just pointless.

A huge omission IMHO. This is just one of those WTF things where you scratch your head and wonder what the hell Mitsubishi was thinking.

-IanSend them an email and ask for a firmware upgrade. That's what software revisions are made from... user's input :)

Several mentioned earlier that this Mits was noticeably superior to the plv-70. I currently own the plv70 & I'm seriously considering the WD2000. What stands out most in the comparison of pic quality and brightness (after calibration) to the plv70 for those that have seen both? Thanks.

Several mentioned earlier that this Mits was noticeably superior to the plv-70. I currently own the plv70 & I'm seriously considering the WD2000. What stands out most in the comparison of pic quality and brightness (after calibration) to the plv70 for those that have seen both? Thanks.There is no comparing the two. It is night and day. The WD2000U is light years ahead of the PLV-70 or anyhting in the LCD world...

So, I'm ready to pull the trigger on this projector (my first). What does everyone recomend for a screen. My theater is dedicated, with total light control, 2 rows of seating at 15' and 22' respectively. I am seriously considering the Carada BW , 136".. Any comments, suggestions? Thanks!

Beware, I have read a thread where the measured gain of the Carada screens was way, way below the advertised gain. I'd either spend a few hundred more and get a Dalite or a few hundred less and get a Saaria.

Several mentioned earlier that this Mits was noticeably superior to the plv-70. I currently own the plv70 & I'm seriously considering the WD2000. What stands out most in the comparison of pic quality and brightness (after calibration) to the plv70 for those that have seen both? Thanks.

I had a SE20HD (PLV 70 clone) for about a year and a half. After that I owned a Panny AE700u and I just upgraded to the Mits.

In high lamp mode the Mits is brighter. In low lamp mode it is about the same, perhaps a bit brighter than a calibrated PLV70 using a CC filter. Image quality-wise it is in a whole other league. The PLV70 has remained popular becuase it is a light cannon while other LCD and DLP devices surpassed it in image quality. Now that there is an affordable DLP light cannon that also yields stunning images and doesn't cost and arm and a leg. I see no reason to consider the PLV70. For those who already own the PLV70 becuase they need the power then the Mits would be an awesome upgrade. You will be blown away. I was. This is the PLV-70 killer IMHO. Finally.

I don't think it really needs calibration unless you are super picky about it. I have the gear and the training to do it and while I can see where it could be improved, I just don't feel that motivated to do it. Video quality analysis is part of my day job so I get pretty picky. Put the WD2000 in "theater" mode, disable "setup" and tweak black level and contrast. Done. Wanna get it ISF calibrated? Go for it but I'm not sure you'd notice much difference.

The image is SMOOTH compared to the PLV-70. Screendoor is of course way better and contrast ratio is far superior. I have not noticed DLP dithering that plagued earlier products. Colors look natural and vibrant.

Rainbows: On a very few occasions if I glance away and back quickly I might see one. But under normal viewing: no.

HTPC: it works flawlessly with a PC. No fighting with powerstrip to compensate for Sanyos retarded and broken EDID settings.

Noise: in low lamp mode it is much quieter than the PLV70, but there is the whine of the color wheel, a new sound LCD users need to get used to.

I found the overscan settings so if I wanted to I could feed it 720p via DVI and get 1:1 pixel mapping.

Hands down this is one of the best values in front projection and, IMHO, the best value in DLP right now. Other "budget" DLP units cheap out on stuff like light output, powered zoom and lens shift.

I don't think Mits really understands what an outstanding product they have in the WD2000.

So, I'm ready to pull the trigger on this projector (my first). What does everyone recomend for a screen. My theater is dedicated, with total light control, 2 rows of seating at 15' and 22' respectively. I am seriously considering the Carada BW , 136".. Any comments, suggestions? Thanks!

I'm using a Dalite HCCM (High Contrast Cinema Vision) 1.1 gain gray screen.

However, this thing has so much power and you have a light controlled room I think any matte white screen would be fine.

Dalite has good stuff.

I had a SE20HD (PLV 70 clone) for about a year and a half. After that I owned a Panny AE700u and I just upgraded to the Mits.

In high lamp mode the Mits is brighter. In low lamp mode it is about the same, perhaps a bit brighter than a calibrated PLV70 using a CC filter. Image quality-wise it is in a whole other league. The PLV70 has remained popular becuase it is a light cannon while other LCD and DLP devices surpassed it in image quality. Now that there is an affordable DLP light cannon that also yields stunning images and doesn't cost and arm and a leg. I see no reason to consider the PLV70. For those who already own the PLV70 becuase they need the power then the Mits would be an awesome upgrade. You will be blown away. I was. This is the PLV-70 killer IMHO. Finally.

I don't think it really needs calibration unless you are super picky about it. I have the gear and the training to do it and while I can see where it could be improved, I just don't feel that motivated to do it. Video quality analysis is part of my day job so I get pretty picky. Put the WD2000 in "theater" mode, disable "setup" and tweak black level and contrast. Done. Wanna get it ISF calibrated? Go for it but I'm not sure you'd notice much difference.

The image is SMOOTH compared to the PLV-70. Screendoor is of course way better and contrast ratio is far superior. I have not noticed DLP dithering that plagued earlier products. Colors look natural and vibrant.

Rainbows: On a very few occasions if I glance away and back quickly I might see one. But under normal viewing: no.

HTPC: it works flawlessly with a PC. No fighting with powerstrip to compensate for Sanyos retarded and broken EDID settings.

Noise: in low lamp mode it is much quieter than the PLV70, but there is the whine of the color wheel, a new sound LCD users need to get used to.

I found the overscan settings so if I wanted to I could feed it 720p via DVI and get 1:1 pixel mapping.

Hands down this is one of the best values in front projection and, IMHO, the best value in DLP right now. Other "budget" DLP units cheap out on stuff like light output, powered zoom and lens shift.

I don't think Mits really understands what an outstanding product they have in the WD2000.ianken, my exact thoughts. There is nothing else anyone on this thread needs to guess aside from reading your post. From the (many, many dozens) of PJs I have seen in recent years, the price/performance ratio of the WD2000U is unlike anything else in front PJ. Also, this is BY FAR the most near-perfectly calibrated I have ever seen, period. Unless you are a perfectionist like me, indeed, this machine comes form factory, pretty much dead on. turn it on and enjoy the show. There is nothing else out there to be compared to. This will remain in my life as the single chip 720p machine I will never forget about. I bought 3 WD2000Us, one for home and two for my Prod. Co. Everyone watching its image quality from random screenings to setup presentations always asks me... what PJ is this? Its not that good... it is really THAT good. Like I said before, till Mitsu makes a 1080p out of this one, this is it. Every day, I like this machine more and what it delivers. I see details, nuances and depth in movies I didn't remember seeing before even from good CRT TVs. This is one absolutely spectacular projector :)

Hi all,

Let me add to Liebkid's and ianken's comments. This projector is awesome. Right out of the box, the picture is perfect to me. As I have admitted several times before, I am a novice so I don't have the "critical" eye many of you might have. But there are my observations:

Noise? What noise - I don't hear it! Besides, I like the movie soundtrack loud (I have a Polk LSI-9 surround sound system that rocks! Pumped up with an Outlaw Amp at 300Watts direct current per channel at 4 ohms).
Rainbows? Never seen them (but maybe I'm lucky).
Artifacts? Several weeks of movie watching and the picture has always been perfect (using a Denon 2910 DVD player).

Bottom line. If you are like me...totally stressed out reading the pros and cons of each projector...paralyzed at making a decision to buy...then this is easy. You will love this projector.

Marcus

I want to shelf mount 7.5' above the floor and 1 or 2' above the screen. If I understand the owner's manual correctly this requires the projector to be placed upside down. Any suggestions on how to do this on a shelf.

thanks

I want to shelf mount 7.5' above the floor and 1 or 2' above the screen. If I understand the owner's manual correctly this requires the projector to be placed upside down. Any suggestions on how to do this on a shelf.

Mount it to the bottom of the shelf. ;)

Clever, if not anti WAF. Any other thoughts?

ianken, liebkid,

Thanks for the feedback on comparisons to the plv70. I took the plunge today and ordered the WD2000. Will have it running tomorrow if all goes well. Really looking forward to it.
I'm surprised more of the old plv70 gang hasn't chimed in on this thread since they are all lovers of <$5K light cannons... maybe they've all moved on to newer machines by now.
By the way, what is the best source for getting the service menu access PC SW for the Mits?
Also, I'll be running a MyHD HTPC card to drive the DVI.... any suggestions on best MyHD setup to take advantage of out-of-box pj calibration?

ianken, liebkid, Thanks for the feedback on comparisons to the plv70. I took the plunge today and ordered the WD2000. Will have it running tomorrow if all goes well. Really looking forward to it.
I'm surprised more of the old plv70 gang hasn't chimed in on this thread since they are all lovers of <$5K light cannons... maybe they've all moved on to newer machines by now. Also, I'll be running a MyHD HTPC card to drive the DVI.... any suggestions on best MyHD setup to take advantage of out-of-box pj calibration?Run the PJ at its native res 1280x768 from your HTPC via DVI. On the PJ leave everything to defaults, Gamma on Dynamic Setting and BrilliantColor set at 1. Start with these settings as then go from there. It will be near perfect like that if your signal from the HTPC is color and gamma neutral. The WD2000U is from any projector I have ever seen or owned at any price, the one that comes most color-perfect out-of-the-box... and I mean it! As for PLV-70 owners not jumping into this, I believe most LCD fans refuse to look at DLP because of RBE "issues", etceteras and other bla, bla, blas... all now-a-days more fantasies and realities and they have no clue what they are missing, specially with the introduction of TI's BrilliantColor technology, applied and calibrated for HT use. The WD2000U has a color punch and smoothness that rivals any 3 chip DLP I have seen, has positively no dithering artifacts, has a dead-on stunning gamma ramp, absolutely shattering shadow detail, is extremely quiet, and with a pixel fill-ratio that is ions away from any LCD machine in its resolution-class. It makes the PLV-70's picture look like pre-Neanderthal dark ages of display technology. I look forward to your feedback here when you get it up and running. If everyone wanting to upgrade their PLV-70 or looking into the new PLV-75 or 80 looked at this machines, Sanyo would not be able to sell a single more of those ever again.By the way, what is the best source for getting the service menu access PC SW for the Mits?I do not understand your question... the best source? Connect any PC to the WD2000U via serial port, stick in the Service Menu CD in and run it. From then on its self-explanatory.

BUT WAIT! You don't need the Service Menu CD. Save your money. Accessing the service menu makes sense only if you are connecting the WD2000U to an HDTV Tuner, DVD or other hardware source without interfacing it with an external video processor to access extra color-correction and calibration features not available on the PJ's user menu. But, if you are feeding it from an HTPC you'll have all color correction tools you'll need at the video graphics adapter utility on the PC. That's all you need. I personally prefer Nvidia cards, not because of the image quality itself that is comparable to any new ATI board, but because I think the software and image calibration parameters is overall much better, but, any of the two will do.

I apologize for the screenshots I posted on this thread being currently off-line. I found out today my web hosting service canned me for "excess traffic" (???) and it will be off line till July 1st. After that (I am locked out of being able to log-in the servers at all) I'll move the files to a new server and have them online again. Sorry about that... :mad:

I was all set to order this projector today but decided that I'd better find out what altitude it is rated at since I'm at 6,000 feet. Per Mitsubishi, it is only rated to 5,000 feet. Bummer.

Liebkid,

Thanks for the info. My "best source" question just meant "where's the best place to order the service cd from?"...... the dealer I went through today couldn't readily find any info on it...... I just found vfrjim's 6/14 post on the cd's part number & tollfree Mits number, so I guess that's the best way. I'll probably want to dabble with it because I won't be using only HTPC... I also have to deal with DVI from a directtv HD STB/Tivo, and a D-VHS HD deck with component out.

I've got Avia and VideoEssentials calibration in DVD & DVHS for HD formats..that covers me for everything except the directv STB output (no good test signals on directv that I've seen since HDNet stopped sending patterns periodically). I have a 2:1 dvi switch to mux the HTPC and STB dvi sources, & I assume there's multiple presets I can choose from when I switch sources?

You mentioned setting to dynamic gamma & brilliant color to 1. Ianken mentioned using "theater" mode.. Looks like gamma is under "user" defined, which is not possible if I select "theater" mode? Also, do these recommendations change if I shift from HTPC DVI to STB DVI or to component in?(eg., manual mentions dynamic is best for computer but not "video")

I think I have a Nvidia 6200 card with HD DVI-out around here somewhere... sounds like using that may be better than the MyHD card. I think I originally went with the MyHD because it could easily play captured HD mpeg TS files from satellite... but I think any number of DVD player softwares can do that now.

Any recommendations on a reasonably priced high quality standalone DVD player with DVI (possibly w/ dvi color adjustments)? Haven't looked in ages because I've been running the Bravo D1 cause it could supply the non-HDCP'd plv-70 with non-HDCP'd DVI.... but my Bravo died recently, and with the new Mits projector I've got no limitations... I know the DVD player seems redundant with the HTPC, but sometimes, with the rest of the family using the HT, it's easier to let them use a "normal" DVD player than dealing with booting up a PC-based player.

Thanks..

Liebkid, Thanks for the info. My "best source" question just meant "where's the best place to order the service cd from?"...... the dealer I went through today couldn't readily find any info on it...... I just found vfrjim's 6/14 post on the cd's part number & tollfree Mits number, so I guess that's the best way.Mitsubishi is the only way. however, I'd strongly recommend you fiddle with the PJ first to see if you really need the service menu access.I have a 2:1 dvi switch to mux the HTPC and STB dvi sources, & I assume there's multiple presets I can choose from when I switch sources?Correct.You mentioned setting to dynamic gamma & brilliant color to 1. Ianken mentioned using "theater" mode.. Looks like gamma is under "user" defined, which is not possible if I select "theater" mode?Correct. I have personally found the settings I mentioned better than the standard theatre mode preset. Your mileage may vary depending on taste and source.Also, do these recommendations change if I shift from HTPC DVI to STB DVI or to component in?(eg., manual mentions dynamic is best for computer but not "video")I suggest trying every source specifically calibrating each one saving the settings into the PJ's several personal memory presets based on input.I think I have a Nvidia 6200 card with HD DVI-out around here somewhere... sounds like using that may be better than the MyHD card.Yes. Get the latest Forceware drivers from Nvidia and play with the color settings on the PC till you get it right. Start with a Black and White test pattern so your gamma ramp is neutral before you mess with color, though I will tell you the PJ is almost right-on-the-money, out-of-the-box.Any recommendations on a reasonably priced high quality standalone DVD player with DVI (possibly w/ dvi color adjustments)?Yes, with no questions about it what-so-ever, this is THE best DVD player in the world and the only one to get, and at less than $200, for a price, features and image quality you can't beat even against $4000 DVD players:

http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h.html

Don't look at anything else.

Yes, with no questions about it what-so-ever, this is THE best DVD player in the world and the only one to get, and at less than $200, for a price, features and image quality you can't beat even against $4000 DVD players:

But not if you want a 480i signal (to process with video processor) via HDMI, then you would want This DVD Player. (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html) and save yourself $50.

Thanks guys.. now I've gotta make a quick grab of an Oppo :)

What screen are you guys using with the Mits wd2000?

When looking at the typical dlp pj's that put about ~ 500 calibrated Lumens (at best), I was planning on going with a Dalite HighPower 119" diag screen. But with the Mits' ~1500 calibrated lumens, might not this make a screen this size TOO bright? Maybe a better choice in this case would be the Firehawk (even though it's pricer). [My room has pretty reasonably light control, but it is not the videophile 'movie theater'/bat cave variety] Both the HP and FH seem to well with modest amounts of ambient light (hough in different ways). Would appreciate hearing what 'Mits 2000 people' have found to work well.

I have the 120" (diag) Dalite HP and a 2000 Lumens pj. It has never been too bright for me, but if it was, a filter would take care of that and lower the black (and white) level at the same time.

You will have more lumen flexibility with a HP, a bright pj and filters.

I ran an experiment, testing for best blacks, with gray screens vs HP + filter.
I could get the same or better black with the HP + filter and still have a brighter pic when needed by removing the filter. When the lamp weakens, remove the filter instead of a new lamp.

You can't do these (as well) with a gray screen.

The HP is a wonderful screen, esp if you don't ceiling mount your pj.

Jim: very helpful, esp. the comparison of using a gray screen vs. the HP + filters. Hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. Tx, Bill

PS I just stumbled back across a post, #69 on this thread, by DarinP who notes that using a ND filter with a high gain screen is NOT eqivalent to using a gray screen. Does this contradict your argument above?

I recommend at least getting samples to view. I am looking at getting the Mits, but my experience with viewing HP was not as good as others. Moving about in the viewing cone produces too large a range of brightness for me, even though the outer areas are not dim. I just don't like getting a different effect based on my viewing position.

Just unhooked the plv70 and got the WD2000 up and running today and have been viewing directtv HD recordings and some DVDs.. I have an Oppo 971 on order, but right now I'm running with a toshiba player upconverting to 720p via dvi. Haven't connected my HTPC yet.

Picture quality is excellent, and brightness generally is up from the plv70. Have tried various settings for color, but leibkid's recommended settings of gamma: dynamic, and brilliant color:1 work well (keeps the picture punched up well in a wide range of bright and dark scenes) and is what I've settled on for now. No noticeable screendoor beyond 9 feet or so. No brightspots. The brightness and contrast default settings of zero don't seem to need much tweaking... going up in contrast or down in brightness seems to just get into crush territory for the most part so the defaults get you clost to where you want to be apparently........ I did need to bump contrast to about 4 or 5 based on the white patterns from the THK DVD test I ran.

First time with DLP really, and don't notice RB on any normal material, but when looking at test patterns with pure white lines on black background (like the built-in grid pattern) it's very easy for me to see the RB then just by darting my eyes from one side to the other.

At times, although always impressive, the brightness had me wondering if it was really that much brighter than the plv70, but then I realized my eyes were probably just compensating when I saw how much more the screen was lighting up the room.....and, after turning on some lights I still saw a picture that looked surprisingly good with decent apparent contrast despite the ambient light (that's when I began to appreciate the real difference). I'm using a zero-gain white screen.

It's probably normal, but I noticed some color spill to adjacent pixel(s) when viewing test patterns with white lines on black, or black letters (like the "focus" text) on white. Vertical white lines would produce 1 or 2 pixels of med to dark blue on either side, and blue sawtooths 1 to 2 two pixels above horizontal white lines. Black letters on white have grey shadowing about 1 pixel on either side of verticals.. Have to be within several feet of the screen to pick it up, but if I saw that on a CRT I'd think I needed to do a convergence tweek. From normal viewing distance and when looking at normal images up close, no such fringing is readily apparent and everything looks really sharp... so, wondering is this just the normal spill of adjacent DLP pixels? It thru me off a bit when trying to focus the image by staring up close at the black on white letters that are only a few pixels wide to begin with (because I couldn't get the crisp black to white letter boundaries I saw when focusing the plv70)...

Anyway, very happy so far with the viewing experience and the inherent superiority and punch of the image over the plv70.. I plan to work more on some cal checks and tweaks when I get time. Anyone who would care to elaborate on their tweaking results would be welcome, and any advice on best settings for the Oppo (which should be arriving tomorrow).

At times, although always impressive, the brightness had me wondering if it was really that much brighter than the plv70, but then I realized my eyes were probably just compensating when I saw how much more the screen was lighting up the room.....and, after turning on some lights I still saw a picture that looked surprisingly good with decent apparent contrast despite the ambient light (that's when I began to appreciate the real difference). I'm using a zero-gain white screen.Are you running the PJ on low lamp mode or high? On low lamp I find it comparable to the PLV-70/80, while on high, substantially brighter. If you want to test the PJ's maximum brightness, turn BrilliantColor setting to 2 with the lamp on high and view material with white punches, explosions or vast bright scenes. You'll need sunglasses on your 1.0 gain screen... and you'd burn a hole on your screen and go blind on an HP gain screen :) On that settings it blows the brightness of the Sanyos out-of-the-water though its not the ideal setting for best contrast and color....It's probably normal, but I noticed some color spill to adjacent pixel(s) when viewing test patterns with white lines on black, or black letters (like the "focus" text) on white. Vertical white lines would produce 1 or 2 pixels of med to dark blue on either side, and blue sawtooths 1 to 2 two pixels above horizontal white lines. Black letters on white have grey shadowing about 1 pixel on either side of verticals...I have 2 WD2000Us setup, two on 200" screens and I get nothing of that sort. You should hook-up the WD000U to your HTPC and feed it via DVI pixel-matched 1280x768 to display some test focusing screens (the PJ itself has one built-in in the user menu). It is one of the virtues of these machines the extreme optical quality of the lens so I'd venture to say you do not have the PJ properly in focus (use the small stepping single-click on the remote) to power-focus it properly. If the problems persists I'd say you have a slight internal lens offset and are getting a small optical aberration. Download the 1280x768 focusing screen below (right-click and save as...) and shoot it full screen from the HTPC to the Mitsubishi. Make sure the HTPC's output is pixel matched to the PJ's native res of 1280x768! Also check the PJ's focusing uniformity, center to all corners. Once you have focus the PJ as well as you can, if at seating position nothing bothers you, you're set, if not, exchange the PJ.

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/1280x768_focus.gif

Thanks for the suggestions Liebkid. I was running in the high lamp setting. The blue fringe I described was along the white grid lines of the pj's internal test pattern.

.................... I just tried focusing adjustments while observing white credit text on black background.. The one or two pixel color fringing changes hue as I go in and out of focus, but never disappears or becomes a pure white to black transition at the edges like you'd expect.... cant' do this focusing while the internal pattern is displayed, since the focus function kicks you out of test pattern mode, but I did check it at several settings and the blue fringe width remains, the fringe shade just gets fuzzier or sharper. Since I see fringing using the internal user menu test pattern, that blue fringing should have nothing to do with the quality of the external signal or pixel matching.. seems inherent. The internal test pattern's white vertical lines seem to want to be exactly 2 pixels wide, pure white. That's what I see, but with additional 1 -2 pixels of deep blue fringe on both sides. What do you see when you look closely at your internal pattern? Do you see a 2 pixel-wide pure white line with a clean transition to pure black in the adjacent pixels?

Still need to try your pattern with HTPC, but can't see why there would be a problem like this with the internal pattern... you'd think that would be as close to a perfect pattern display as you could get, unless the internal pattern itself is being scaled? I may be chasing a non-problem here since I don't perceive any real pic quality issue during normal viewing, but this bugs me. that's why I'm curious what you see on your internal pattern, since all users should get the same results from that..

Edit...
OK, I also just tried the HTPC DVI set at 1280x768 and displayed your test pattern in what appeared to be pixel-perfect form.... the smallest white squares were exactly 2x2 pixels on the screen, full white. I did still see streaky blue fringing in an area about 2 pixels high just above each of the white squares, similar to what I saw before on the above internal test pattern's horizontal lines. Interestingly, this blue fringing is not made up of evenly lit pixels of the color, but are roughly triangular shaped spikes (not always filling up full pixels) that extend upward from each white pixel, so it seems it is some sort of optical light spill or other optical issue, not a pixel firing issue? Since this is deep blue against black, when viewing from more an 7 or 8 feet back it's nearly impossible to see, and I can't really see a degrdation in edge sharpness or clarity at that point..... from that distance it looks like clean 2 pixel wide white lines against pure black.

I did determine the cause of some of the black text on white edge fuzziness.. When I reset keystoning to zero, zero settings (none applied) the letters regained their sharp edges and looked crisp up close when proper focus was reached. It seems that any digital manipulation of screen size such as keystone, overscan %, etc.. causes the image to come out of native pixel-perfect alignment, and you begin to see shaded pixels around edges that didn't exist before, which detracts from the close up sharpness somewhat... guess that makes sense since it must be getting scaled a bit under those settings. Zeroing the keystoning did not help the white-on-black blue spill issue though.

Not sure if I should consider this an optics problem that needs correcting.. may need to consult with Mits on this. Normal viewing is great, & if I didn't walk up to the screen and stare at the sharply contrasting white to black edges of the test patterns, I wouldn't even know of any problem..

Anyone know what size of ND filter fits the WD2000U? My projector is arriving on Wed and I figure that I will need it with a 92" HP screen, especially with the projector mounted ~ 10" above my head :)

Thanks

Rinker,

Are you using a lot of lens shift? Is it worse on the top or bottom than in the center of the screen?

Rinker,

Don't take this the wrong way...but do you wear glasses by any chance?

See with my plv-60(lcd) when looking at high contrast material(white text over black background for instance) the text has a blue shadow on top. It was so bad I sent the pj in to have it repaired and they couldn't find any problems. Turns out it was my glasses doing it. If my head is even the least bit tilted back when looking at the screen I get the blue shadow.

This is likely not your problem but i thought I'd just throw this out there. I don't know if a dlp would even do this.

Bill,

I agree they are not equivalent in every way, e.g., like ambient light angles, but for the items that are most important to me (as mentioned in my post above) it is a "no-brainer" for my conditions.

It's probably normal, but I noticed some color spill to adjacent pixel(s) when viewing test patterns with white lines on black, or black letters (like the "focus" text) on white.

I saw the same on the letters in the FOCUS text when selecting that adjustment and was able to eliminate the fringing with the focus adjustment.

Noah & Ken,

I checked without my glasses just now and the blue fringe above the white on black horizontals is still there... but with glasses on, my viewing angle does alter the hue of some rows of pixels a bit..... interesting.

I do use a lot of lens shift and even have to tilt the pj downward a tad because the pj is on it's feet on a shelf at a height equal to the top edge of the screen. I did check with no tilt and no lens shift though and the fringing was still there. This effect is pretty unfiform across the screen. The biggest source of fringe change and pixel level distortion I've foudn so far is using any amount of keystone correction.. it blows any pixel-perfect set-up you think you've got right out of the water... guess that's because of the necessary scaling to achieve the keystone adjustment. I still get the blue fringe even with the zero keystone setting.

Anyone know what size of ND filter fits the WD2000U? My projector is arriving on Wed and I figure that I will need it with a 92" HP screen, especially with the projector mounted ~ 10" above my head :)

Thanks

its 82mm

its 82mm


Thanks, I'm gonna really need it.

Just a first impression of the WD2000U, WOW! Even without calibration, it is one sweet looking projector and I am glad that I came across this thread and for liebkid for starting it!


ONE NOTE that I need to make notice to though. If after zooming and len shifting, your image is not the correct aspect ratio (Mine was the correct height but did not fill the screen in width), toggle through all the aspect ratio settings and it corrects itself.

I will do a more complete review in a little bit.

Jim

I calibrated mine with DVE, theatertek as player on HTPC(this setting may be out of wack if you use regular dvd player)

wd2000 setting: (using DVI)
dynamic gamma is on
brilliant setting is 1
contrast is 23
lamp mode is low
everything else is default

Nvidia setting..(primary post processor)
brightness 101%
contrast 102%
gamma 85

FFDShow setting (Secondary Postprocessing)
I only use deinterlacer option

This setting might change a little once I switch to carada HCG..Right now I'm using white cloth projecting @ 90" and I found out I dont need the ND filter at all @ low mode..

One flaw I noticed while putting projector on a table, there is a light leakage pointing 45 degrees, so if I ceiling mount it, the light leakage will be pointing to the floor, does anyone notice this? I found a quick solution by masking the top portion of the lens without distracting or changing projection image..

p.s
I did not notice this when I was using the prismasonic lens, so if you are using some sort of a lens its ok..

It's probably normal, but I noticed some color spill to adjacent pixel(s) when viewing test patterns with white lines on black, or black letters (like the "focus" text) on white. Vertical white lines would produce 1 or 2 pixels of med to dark blue on either side, and blue sawtooths 1 to 2 two pixels above horizontal white lines. Black letters on white have grey shadowing about 1 pixel on either side of verticals.. Have to be within several feet of the screen to pick it up, but if I saw that on a CRT I'd think I needed to do a convergence tweek. From normal viewing distance and when looking at normal images up close, no such fringing is readily apparent and everything looks really sharp... so, wondering is this just the normal spill of adjacent DLP pixels? It thru me off a bit when trying to focus the image by staring up close at the black on white letters that are only a few pixels wide to begin with (because I couldn't get the crisp black to white letter boundaries I saw when focusing the plv70)...

The color fringing that you are describing is usually the result of either inferior optics, or lens mis-alignment. If we go with liebkid's assertion that this projector has a high quality lens, and none of the other users are reporting a similar problem, then I would guess this is a lens mis-alignment problem. This would not be user fixable and would either have to be repaired, or replaced by Mitsubishi. Have any other owners come across this problem?

The color fringing that you are describing is usually the result of either inferior optics, or lens mis-alignment. If we go with liebkid's assertion that this projector has a high quality lens, and none of the other users are reporting a similar problem, then I would guess this is a lens mis-alignment problem. This would not be user fixable and would either have to be repaired, or replaced by Mitsubishi. Have any other owners come across this problem?I have had a new WD2000U for about a week that I am absolutely blown away with... it is the overall very best projector I have ever seen and owned. I concur with Liebkid that the optics on this machine are of extreme quality. I have a 180" diagonal screen and being just a few inches away from it, I get absolutely dead-on focus and linearity across the screen. This said, focusing is a bit tricky and it may take some patience and a few tries back and forth on the remote to get it just right. The lens on this machine is fantastic and IMO more than ready for a 1080p DMD. I suggest RinkerD to have his PJ exchanged.

RinkerD, this PJ has superb optics. I am almost certain you have a unit suffering from an optical misalignment issue that is not user reparable. You'd have to have Mitsubishi repair it or replace the optics. In my opinion, while swapping electronics boards is a no-brainer at repair centers, messing with optics is on the other hand, a very delicate affair and chances are, getting right by the hand of a technician trying to fine-tune optics, has the odds against success if you a perfectionist and want it right. I'd suggest trying to get a new replacement PJ.

ONE NOTE that I need to make notice to though. If after zooming and len shifting, your image is not the correct aspect ratio (Mine was the correct height but did not fill the screen in width), toggle through all the aspect ratio settings and it corrects itself.

vfrjim,

looking forward to your review. am i right in assuming that using keystone correction can affect picture quality but zooming and lens shifting will not? i plan on setting up the WD2000U throw distance at 2.0 the screen width (87") and lens aligned to the top edge of the screen. any major problems with this arrangement?

gup

Why cant I see the screenshots?

Why cant I see the screenshots?

Liebkid having a server problem at the moment. Hopefully they are up again soon, they were oustanding!

I apologize for the screenshots I posted on this thread being currently off-line. I found out today my web hosting service canned me for "excess traffic" (???) and it will be off line till July 1st. After that (I am locked out of being able to log-in the servers at all) I'll move the files to a new server and have them online again. Sorry about that... :mad:

vfrjim,

looking forward to your review. am i right in assuming that using keystone correction can affect picture quality but zooming and lens shifting will not? i plan on setting up the WD2000U throw distance at 2.0 the screen width (87") and lens aligned to the top edge of the screen. any major problems with this arrangement?

gup


I do not see a problem, and you are correct, shifting/zooming does not affect image quality but keystoning does. Remember, the projector needs to be mounted upside down for that arrangement.

180" screen, that's huge. Bizplayer how does SD dvd hold up at that size?.

180" screen, that's huge. Bizplayer how does SD DVD hold up at that size?.It doesn't (... and forget about any upconvergence tricks... the resolution is just not there while all MPEG-2 artifacts are there no matter what you try to do to get rid of them). I only watch HD material. Any SD source is basically unbearable. This PJ is so sharp, bright and true-to-life that feeding it anything else than HD is a crime. This is the most spectacular 720p PJ ever made... and I have have seen them all...

This is the most spectacular 720p PJ ever made...

Now I do believe this is an excellent product, but don't you think there should be SOME caveat to this statement, e.g., " ... for the price .. "? Surely the $20K 3-chip 720p dlp pj's must be better, not so?