Now I do believe this is an excellent product, but don't you think there should be SOME caveat to this statement, e.g., " ... for the price .. "? Surely the $20K 3-chip 720p dlp pj's must be better, not so?No. First of all of course anything stated is within a price range. One cannot usually do comparisons with machines that cost 10 times the price. However, I have a Sony Ruby that costs almost 3 times the price. Resolution aside, it sucks in every possible front. Panel misconvergence, dim as hell (I mean... its pathetic), contrast deficient (15,000:1 CR claims... is everyone out of their minds???), shadow detail mediocre... etc. I will never buy another Sony Product ever again way the way. Also, I bought 4 months a go a SIM2 C3X 3 chip. Good no doubt, but, not as crisp sharp, not nearly as bright when calibrated, worse in shadow detail and (!!!) noisy as hell as far as image noise goes. I'll say it again. The WD2000U is the best 720p PJ I have ever seen or owned. If it was priced at 10K I'd still think it would be a good deal. Nothing comes close to it... and on top of that, I didn't have to sell my first born to own it :) When Mitsubishi makes a 1080p version of this thing, I am in for an upgrade. Till then, my search for the better Video projector has finally come to an end and I could not be more thrilled. Those of you who have not seen this machine in action have no clue how good this thing really is.

One flaw I noticed while putting projector on a table, there is a light leakage pointing 45 degrees, so if I ceiling mount it, the light leakage will be pointing to the floor, does anyone notice this? I found a quick solution by masking the top portion of the lens without distracting or changing projection image... p.s
I did not notice this when I was using the prismasonic lens, so if you are using some sort of a lens its ok..Has anyone else noticed this light spill? I don't see it in mine but then again I am using the WD2000U with the ISCO-II Wide-Angle Adapter and that probably throws the spill somewhere else or just de-spots it...

No. First of all of course anything stated is within a price range. One cannot usually do comparisons with machines that cost 10 times the price. However, I have a Sony Ruby that costs almost 3 times the price. Resolution aside, it sucks in every possible front. Panel misconvergence, dim as hell (I mean... its pathetic), contrast deficient (15,000:1 CR claims... is everyone out of their minds???), shadow detail mediocre... etc. I will never buy another Sony Product ever again way the way. Also, I bought 4 months a go a SIM2 C3X 3 chip. Good no doubt, but, not as crisp sharp, not nearly as bright when calibrated, worse in shadow detail and (!!!) noisy as hell as far as image noise goes. I'll say it again. The WD2000U is the best 720p PJ I have ever seen or owned. If it was priced at 10K I'd still think it would be a good deal. Nothing comes close to it... and on top of that, I didn't have to sell my first born to own it :) When Mitsubishi makes a 1080p version of this thing, I am in for an upgrade. Till then, my search for the better Video projector has finally come to an end and I could not be more thrilled. Those of you who have not seen this machine in action have no clue how good this thing really is.

OK, I take you at your word (since I haven't seen one of them yet). And like you, I'm going to wait for the 1080p version; about a year will be right when I plan to make a move.

OK, I take you at your word (since I haven't seen one of them yet). And like you, I'm going to wait for the 1080p version; about a year will be right when I plan to make a move.millerwill, I am with you on that boat. I am counting on Mitsu making the move in less than a year (probably not... I am just being idealistic :)) but I really cannot wait to see a 1080p version of this PJ :)

Man, July 7th, the day I get my screen, just can't come soon enough!

Has anyone else noticed this light spill? I don't see it in mine but then again I am using the WD2000U with the ISCO-II Wide-Angle Adapter and that probably throws the spill somewhere else or just de-spots it...

You need to have a moderate to completely dark room to see this, which may be distracting to some. The leakage is coming from a metallic object inside near the focus ring..

does anyone know how much avs is selling this for? will there be a powerbuy?

I bought mine about 2 weeks ago and AVS did not have it at that time. Got mine at projector.com, good price, policies, and service.

Bizpplayer

How would you compare the black level of the WD2000U to that of the Ruby? The Ruby is highly regarded in that area.

Does anyone else notice this too? I am setting up the projector via a DVDO VP30 processor and when I set the output resolution to 720P from the VP30, the image is a tad "soft" but change it to 1280 x 768 and it "sharpens" right up. I even set it to "auto" on the WD2000U and it still seems to be the same, is there a setting that I am missing to make it just as sharp @ 720P? Or could my VP30 be causing this?

Jim

Jim,

I'll guess you need the 1280x768 output to get 1:1 pixel mapping, I did with my HTPC. Can you set the VP30 to 1280x768 and set it's aspect ratio to get 16x9?

...Tim

Jim, I'll guess you need the 1280x768 output to get 1:1 pixel mapping, I did with my HTPC. Can you set the VP30 to 1280x768 and set it's aspect ratio to get 16x9?...TimPrecisely. This has been mentioned in this thread multiple times already. The WD2000U likes 1280x768 via DVI, period. When you feed it a native 720p it just doesn't use by itself the extra 48 pixels.

Can someone explain how the Mits 2000 gets it high brightness? I mean its CR, 2000:1, is very close to that of the many 1000 Lumen-rated (and ~ 400 lumen producing) dlp pj's; and has been discussed in great technical detail in many threads, in most real world rooms the difference between a CR of 2000:1 and 10,000:1 is meaningless in terms of what one actually gets off the screen. So why is the Mits 2000 so much brighter? And from all the reports here, it doesn't seem to give anything away in terms of other parameters related to PQ. How does it achieve this?

Can someone explain how the Mits 2000 gets it high brightness? I mean its CR, 2000:1, is very close to that of the many 1000 Lumen-rated (and ~ 400 lumen producing) dlp pj's; and has been discussed in great technical detail in many threads, in most real world rooms the difference between a CR of 2000:1 and 10,000:1 is meaningless in terms of what one actually gets off the screen. So why is the Mits 2000 so much brighter? And from all the reports here, it doesn't seem to give anything away in terms of other parameters related to PQ. How does it achieve this?

Maybe a white segment on the color wheel?

Maybe a white segment on the color wheel?

But wouldn't this decrease the color saturation, or degrade the PQ in some way?

I dont know but the TI chip has the Brilliant color techology feature which may fix the saturation

I dont know but the TI chip has the Brilliant color techology feature which may fix the saturation

It's just strange that none of the other 720p dlp's pj's have come near to the Mits 2000 in terms of brightness, even though they are using the same TI chip. Maybe they're all just hung up on trying to ramp up the CR instead. But as so many threads have discussed in great detail (that I've been digging out of the archives!), that is not the PQ-limiting factor (brightness is) unless one's room is 100% light-controlled (black velvet on ceiling & walls, black-out tape over the LED's on the instruments, etc., and of course no lights on or coming in from outside the room--"if you can see your hand in front of your face, it's not a totally light-controlled room").

Jim,

I'll guess you need the 1280x768 output to get 1:1 pixel mapping, I did with my HTPC. Can you set the VP30 to 1280x768 and set it's aspect ratio to get 16x9?

...Tim


Actually, I tried that later and it worked.....

UNFORTUNATELY, my VP30 died tonite(gave me a serious error code 11 in the display) and does not pass video anymore) so looks like I have to feed it with the sources now till I get my VP30 back :(

"when I set the output resolution to 720P from the VP30, the image is a tad "soft" but change it to 1280 x 768 and it "sharpens" right up. "

So why don't you just leave the VP30 at 1280x768?

Hi Bill,

"Can someone explain how the Mits 2000 gets it high brightness? "

I've wondered about that, too.

It does have the highest power lamo, 300 W, though not by much with several of its competitors having 250 or 275 W.

Perhaps the lamp gives more L/W or has a better reflector than the others.

Also the WD2000 is overall larger, so maybe the optical engine is scaled up andable to gather and direct a higher % of the lamp's light.

Still, that wouldn't seem to be able to fully account for the difference, so it remains an interesting mystery.

[edit] Expanding on the above, perhaps the 300W lamp is dedicated to the commercial market where a larger size is acceptable, and has a larger case and reflector.

Can someone explain how the Mits 2000 gets it high brightness?

The 3000 lumens is definitely obtained by using the extra clear and yellow segments, but they can be turned off if you want to avoid any desaturation. Even without using the clear and yellow segments, the picture is bright enough on my 120" gray screen that I am able to lower the contrast setting to -5. As the lamp ages I can turn the contrast up to 0, and for more brightness I can turn Brilliant Color on. I just glanced at a review of the Mits HC3000 in the new issue of The Perfect Vision; an interesting bit of information was the reviewer found the X,Y color coordinates of red to be more accurate with Brilliant Color turned on. Green and Blue didn't change.

It's just strange that none of the other 720p dlp's pj's have come near to the Mits 2000 in terms of brightness, even though they are using the same TI chip. Maybe they're all just hung up on trying to ramp up the CR instead. But as so many threads have discussed in great detail (that I've been digging out of the archives!), that is not the PQ-limiting factor (brightness is) unless one's room is 100% light-controlled (black velvet on ceiling & walls, black-out tape over the LED's on the instruments, etc., and of course no lights on or coming in from outside the room--"if you can see your hand in front of your face, it's not a totally light-controlled room").

My guess is that they are hung up on CR. Greater flexibilty between CR and brightness, i.e. iris control, and intelligent power supply design. Also keep in mind that lumen efficiency is typically superlinear with power, a little extra power can give a lot more lumens, but burns the bulb much faster.

I agree with the prior post, white and yellow segments contribute a lot. Keep in mind white and yellow are used on all PJs to some extent. The algorithm for color adjustment, etc. needs to be efficient,

I agree with the prior post, white and yellow segments contribute a lot. Keep in mind white and yellow are used on all PJs to some extent.What did you mean by that? All projectors create white and yellow, but not all projectors use a pure white for adding white to the images at a level that individual R, G, and B cannot match. That has pretty much been a business DLP feature and now seems to be moving to some of the HT DLPs (or crossover products). If somebody wanted to do something similar with CRTs they could have a 4 tube CRT system, one that just adds white. It would help their peak lumens, but not for reds, greens, blues, magentas, or cyans.

--Darin

Has anyone measured the actual lumens and CR of a calibrated WD2000U?

Can someone explain how the Mits 2000 gets it high brightness?

Maybe it has to do with Mits using larger more efficient optics/optical path. Though it's lcd...my Sanyo PLV-60 is similar to the mits in that it's bulb wattage isn't that much greater than other similar pj's but yeilds a far brighter image. If you look at the plv-60, like this mits', it is physically much larger than most comparable pj's and that allows for larger optics. It's just like looking through binoculars...the smaller the lens, the less light that can pass. I have a pair of high quality small(pocket size) binoc's and a larger pair of "field" binoc's. The larger pair is FAR brighter cause they can collect/pass a lot more light.

IMO it's the same thing with pj's...only in reverse.

Has anyone demoed the XD1000u/XD2000u projectors?.

I only ever watch SD pal dvd's and I don't see the rental stores updating their stock to HD anytime soon. All things being equal the XD models should make for a better picture with SD pal given that they use XGA dark chip 3.

Also the WD2000u model is currently not available in Australia, the XD models have been around for several months, which is why I'm asking.

Hello everyone. As you know my web hosting service canned me for "excess traffic" (???) and all the posts with images and screenshots I had placed on this thread got offline. I got access back to the server today again. But, to avoid the same thing happening I moved all files to another server where the issue of too much bandwidth usage is not a problem. To the request of many of you i am therefore re-posting here a short-run of the posts where there were images attached... with them back this time. Sorry for the blackout these past couple weeks :)


UNITS IMAGES, REMARKS AND MY SETUP:


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_01.jpg
First pics of the machine. First of all, the Mitsubishi WD2000U is surprisingly, a very accomplished design. It is large PJ but not much bigger than you'd expect for large venue machine. The finish is a satin soft white. Even the plastic shelf feels good. Nothing is thin or fragile. The optics are extremely large and multi-coated with the external glass being visible an aspheric piece. Very good built. This thing feels amazingly solid and very well put together. I have not touched any HT PJ in its price range with this level of built. Also, it has nothing to do with previous Mitsubishi products I had come in contact with in the past. You immediately feel that there were no corner cuts to make this a professional grade machine. Note that there are positively no buttons at sight except one discreet center top ON/OFF button. Totally flush design. I love it.


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_02.jpg
The back features all your connections. Everything very well laid out. HDCP compliant DVI, no HDMI. Multiple analogues, components, LAN remote connectivity and all sorts of other stuff we'll probably never use. The remote control is also among the best things I've seen. Simple but extremely effective, will all buttons on the right place and a design that will look good on anyone's tea table :)


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_03.jpg
When the back cover is on, you see absolutely no wires what so ever. It looks stunning and very "finished". I like the rounded back. The PJ looks fabulous, even when off :)


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_04.jpg
Like I mentioned there are no buttons at sight except the ON/OFF button on the top. Just behind it a top cover hides the main navigation controls and buttons (also duplicated on the remote that includes a joystick for easy navigation). The cover is not flimsy at all and secure opens firmly in a smart rail design. Mitsubishi did it right.


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_05.jpg
My setup includes an ISCO-II 0.8x wide-angle lens. I have a 159" screen at just under 16 feet. Getting the center point right as you shift the lens up and down and sideways becomes a huge exercise of patience and precision. I am building a rig on which both pieces will be sturdily fasten together so nothing moves.


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/Mitsu_06.jpg
For those not familiar with the ISCO lens, this is one L A R G E piece of optics, giving you a good idea on the overall size on the PJ. These pics were taken out of the box before putting the setup on its final location.

Next are some shots of a portion of my screening room's setup with the Mitsubishi finally in place :)


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/mitsu_final_1.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/mitsu_final_2.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/mitsu_final_3.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/mitsu_final_4.jpg

SCREENSHOTS AND SIDE-BY-SIDE:
Here are a few first screenshots. I will refry myself from any remarks and just let the pictures be the source for judgment. Everyone's mileage will vary and this is what you can get properly calibrated when connected via DVI to an good external processor. My setup. You can clearly see black levels this PJ can do from the gray bars on top and bottom of the 2.35:1 native widescreen aspect ratio of the movie compared to the black borders of my screen (obviously darker than the darkest the PJ can do). You'll notice little visible artifacts and an overall very clean tone rendition along with good CR. For a high brightness projector that is on the streets for less than $3500 and is feature packed, I think this is extremely good. My opinion of course. I am still running the PJ on low bulb. The side-by-side shots were taken with the same exposure settings on my digital camera so you can see the differences between the Mitsu out of the box in high and low power, then calibrated and then side-by-side with the BenQ also calibrated and outputting the maximum amount of light it can. Contrast is clearly a bit better on the BenQ and colors now what I see it a bit more realistic, but the light punch of the WD2000U (still in low power mode fort maximum CR) is breathtaking. I think this gives a good idea of everything I went through settings wise and how the PJs compare with different settings. As I said before, feeding the Mitsubishi to the Crystalio-II makes the PJ come truly alive and the difference between what the projector can deliver by itself or connected to a good external video processor is very clear. These are JPEG compressed pics so there is a little extra noise added to them due to the native JPEG compression artifacts induced when saving them (95% quality) to post here. Also all shots were overexposed by about 10% to enhance the visibility of the gray bars and make it clearer to judge overall CR.


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/m_screen1.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/m_screen2.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/m_screen3.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/m_screen4.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/m_screen5.jpg

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/sbs.jpg

CALIBRATION SCREENS:
To help everyone adjust their WD2000U (of course this will work with any 1280x768 native res PJ) I have made a few charts that can help you tune-up and calibrate colors, gray scale, gamma ramp, and check for flicker, precise focus, pluge, and overscan issues. Feed these in full screen from an HTPC pixel matched to the 1280x768 resolution of the PJ.


http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/wd2000u_adj.jpg


Here is a download link (http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/wd2000u_adj.zip) with a zip file containing uncompressed BMP shots of each screen for calibration.


Finally, for those of you asking for a primer on how to take screenshots, here goes:

Canon EOD-1DS MkII - 16 Mega Pixel setting for best resolution and to avoid moiré from DMD pixel grid
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM Canon Lens - high contrast lens with no barrel distortion
Super Low Gain Setting (ISO not specified but tentatively about a theoretical 8ASA) - to minimize added noise
Lock white balance manually ideally to 6500K or try matching the PJ's outputting color's temperature. Alternatively just do a manual white balance calibration from pure white coming from the screen using a calibrated reference white
Cut Default Capture Contrast by 20% - Helps highlights burns and helps with gray shade scaling
1/4s Exposure time - to capture all frame without flicker or uneven exposure
F/16 Aperture on the lens - to maximize depth of field, focus precision and flatten perspective. Also remember, lenses' maximum resolution is typical in the mid center of its aperture range.
ND 2x filter - to cut extra light as needed
Tripod - forget about holding the camera with your hands
Bracket from F:3+ to F:3- till you get it right - testing is the only way
Set file type to ideally to RAW to by-pass any in-camera processing. if you don't have it, use an uncompressed format such as TIFF or, if only JPEG is available, set it at its highest quality saving setting to minimize added noise due to compression loss
Select your movie frames to be shot and do full-res screen capture stills of them, to be used to snap the screenshot from the projector (that way you don't have to fiddle with live pause and still and take as long as you want for each shot... that is if using an HTPC as in my case, from an 720p movie source)
Lock the camera in that setting and start shooting.
All this changes completely of course with the Lumen output of the Projector and the screen gain

It sounds like with the various lens options and the brightness this could be mounted 21 feet back (on back wall of my room) for a 110" diagonal screen...


Liebkid, what is the purpose of your added lens? It's not an anamorphic lens is it?

Li On,

If you are still on this thread, I am wondering how your statement about the 2000 having poor black level relates to the comparison pictures above?

Notice that the calibrated 2000 has a black level very close to the 8720 (known to have an excellent black). One can see this by comparing the pj blacks to the true black border around the screen.

On another topic: There is a significant difference between the calibrated vs uncalibrated 2000 shots, but someone wrote (above) that the 2000 was (almost?) dead on out of the box. The pictures don't seem to support that.

Thank you.

The uncalibrated screen shots look best to me. What it needs is a grey screen for front projection, and a good tinted screen for rear projection.

IB

IB,

Try increasing your monitor contrast until you see the difference between the black screen boarder and the black area of the image; then the uncalibrated looks washed out (on my screen).

The uncalibrated screen shots look best to me. What it needs is a grey screen for front projection, and a good tinted screen for rear projection.IB???... your monitor is seriously off... I mean... gravely!!!

...There is a significant difference between the calibrated vs uncalibrated 2000 shots, but someone wrote (above) that the 2000 was (almost?) dead on out of the box. The pictures don't seem to support that.I stated that and support what I said as. precisely, the pictures confirm just that.. If you look at an image as an absolute value (WITHOUT comparing it side-by-side to a better one professionally calibrated to spec plus fed via a external video processor... that is $8000 later worth of hardware and pro expertise), the Mitsu (in low mode and adjusted as it ships) requires on the user menu only a slight decrease in contrast + green bias gain, Gamma set to Dynamic and BrilliantColor to 1 (it ships @2). That's about 5 or 6 clicks on the remote to get it right. To me, that is REALLY, REALLY good as far as out-of-the-box goes. Note that the uncalibrated pictures posted above both for HIGH and LOW lamp modes are fully uncalibrated, that is just as the PJ ships, before the few simple adjustments described. I've had projectors that require hours and hundreds of adjustments clicks as they ship before the pic is acceptable. Like I said before, out-of-the-box it the WD2000U is as close to great as any PJ I have seen and after about 30 seconds worth of a couple of adjustments, its fantastic. Now, do not compare that to $3000 later worth of calibrated by a professional plus fed via a $5000 external video processor. Obviously, after that it looks much better, like ANY PJ will. Finally, I should mention like I also have before, that instead of 8 grand, you can spend a couple bucks of the Service Menu CD and calibrate the PJ to spec yourself. You'll get about the same calibration results for spot-perfect picture and, as long as you natively feed digitally the PJ its 1280x768 resolution with a progressive signal, the scaling and de-interlacing issues are inexistent, and the need for extra video processing hardware is annulled.

Finally, I should mention like I also have before, that instead of 8 grand, you can spend a couple bucks of the Service Menu CD and calibrate the PJ to spec yourself. You'll get about the same calibration results for spot-perfect picture and, as long as you natively feed digitally the PJ its 1280x768 resolution with a progressive signal, the scaling and de-interlacing issues are inexistent, and the need for extra video processing hardware is annulled.Liebkid, you have put forth a lot of info on this thread and it is appreciated but something just doesn't sound quite right here. Since there wasn't that much done to the pj (30 seconds worth of adjustments), why did he charge you 3K to calibrate it? Why bother to hook up your VP30 if it's not needed after calibration? Someone can't possibly achieve these same results by simply using the Service Menu CD for a quick calibration and then feed the pj a 1280x768 digital signal from their player of choice and I think it's misleading of you to say this.

Good Review Thanks For Work Put In And Sharing Info Very Cool

Liebkid, you have put forth a lot of info on this thread and it is appreciated but something just doesn't sound quite right here. Since there wasn't that much done to the pj (30 seconds worth of adjustments), why did he charge you 3K to calibrate it? Why bother to hook up your VP30 if it's not needed after calibration? Someone can't possibly achieve these same results by simply using the Service Menu CD for a quick calibration and then feed the pj a 1280x768 digital signal from their player of choice and I think it's misleading of you to say this.1) I always have my projectors professionally calibrated.

2) Calibrating the PJ took a few hours to do via the C-II and I am a perfectionist in these matters far beyond of what my personal abilities to calibrate a machine like this can take me. I find it money well spent though anyone can argue not.

3) You actually should "bother" to connect an external video processor because unless you're feeding this PJ via HTPC, little other hardware supports 1280x768 output or upscaling which is what the WD2000U needs as it has a lesser scaler and video processing engine. Please understand this PJ does NOT like 720p signals in its pure form (1280x720), it has to be in the 1280x768 form and then let the PJ ignore the extra 48 lines or you'll be forcing the PJ to upscale 720 lines to 768 and then via aspect ratio have it set back to 720 lines, resulting in a soft picture as already experienced by other members that own a WD2000U and reported the fact. Most high-end DVD players, some HDTV tuners etc, do output 720p but not in 1280x768 form.

4) Anyone can achieve very good calibration results calibrating the machine via user and service menu. The term "quick" calibration, however is yours. I never said using the service menu is a "quick" process. I did say, using the user menu is.

5) I believe it is fair to say you have more than enough examples here of people in this thread not using an external video processor that seem quite satisfied with the PJ's performance by itself meaning you can get indeed top-notch results without the use of an external video processor.

6)When I had the PJ professionally calibrated, there was no info on how to access the service menu, not even my installer knew how to access it. That info came after I already had the machine calibrated via a fellow AVS Forum member that was kind enough to cordially inform me and everyone else that it was not a service code but a CD with software and utilities sold directly by Mitsubishi. If I had this info before, I would have surely given it a try before having my PJ professionally calibrated. And now that I have purchased the CD and used it to access the service menu and have seen what can be done at that level, I would have most likely be satisfied enough not to need the extra cost of a professional calibration service.

7) Please don't try and see things in my words I don't say nor in things I say, stuff I don't mean. I, and many other AVS forum members, have put a lot of work on this thread for everyone else's unbiased benefit and help, so I don't easily tolerate bull*** from you or anyone else who has not contributed to this thread in any way but suddenly steps in to raise issues on my credibility, sincerity or earnestness of views as posted here with the sole intent of being helpful to others, when trust me, I am a very busy person with serious responsabilites on my shoulders.

8) Have a happy 4th of July.

liebkid, what was the cost of the service CD ?

Thanks

[B]1) 7)Please don't try and see things in my words I don't say nor in things I say, stuff I don't mean. I, and many other AVS forum members, have put a lot of work on this thread for everyone else's unbiased benefit and help, so I don't easily tolerate bull*** from you or anyone else who has not contributed to this thread in any way but suddenly steps in to raise issues on my credibility, sincerity or earnestness of views as posted here with the sole intent of being helpful to others, when trust me, I am a very busy person with serious responsabilites on my shoulders.

Liebkid, lighten up man. I'm not trying to impinge upon your credibility. I don't think anyone here intentionally tries to misinterpret what another individual is trying to convey. In my previous post I acknowledged the work that you have put into this and said it was appreciated.

I had inferred from your post that it would be quite simple and rather inexpensive for somebody to achieve the same results you have using your VP30 and a $3000 calibration. That seemed slightly misleading to me. I apologize for the misunderstanding. You have further clarified your statement and I now have a better understanding of what you were trying to say.

Liebkid (or anyone who may have tried it),

"Please understand this PJ does NOT like 720p signals in its pure form (1280x720), it has to be in the 1280x768 form and then let the PJ ignore the extra 48 lines or you'll be forcing the PJ to upscale 720 lines to 768 and then via aspect ratio have it set back to 720 lines, resulting in a soft picture as already experienced by other members that own a WD2000U and reported the fact."

What % of the softening occurs in just the 1st step; what if you don't mind a slightly taller picture and dispense w/the rescaling to 720?

Thanks

Also, Liebkid, do you think a 4X ND filter would be too much or just right since I have a HP screen(mounted Projo in optimum area for gain)?

Thanks

OK so for someone with typical needs; a reasonably light controlled room, 120" screen, no external scaler, and probably no professional calibration, but does enjoy a bright picture as long as contrast isn't to badly compromised - for that kind of person (uh, me actually) does this projector still represent a standout value for the price? Or does it fall back in with the rest of the pack, and say the Samsung might be the better performer in that environment?

OK so for someone with typical needs; a reasonably light controlled room, 120" screen, no external scaler, and probably no professional calibration, but does enjoy a bright picture as long as contrast isn't to badly compromised - for that kind of person (uh, me actually) does this projector still represent a standout value for the price? Or does it fall back in with the rest of the pack, and say the Samsung might be the better performer in that environment?

I had the Samsung, now I have the WD2000U. My setup is very similar to yours. I would say get the WD2000U with one caveat. I am feeding in component for DVD and RGB for hi-def and the picture is wonderful, but I don't have to worry about feeding in 720p. If you want to feed in 720p via DVI, then maybe the aforementioned picture softening due to rescaling will be a problem. I'm hoping the new Denon 2930 will output 768p so I can move to DVD via the DVI interface.

your post that it would be quite simple and rather inexpensive for somebody to achieve the same results you have using your VP30 and a $3000 calibration. That seemed slightly misleading to me.
I'm pretty sure you may have misunderstood his post. First, I don't think he stated it cost $3K to calibrate the projector (the usual cost is between $350-600). Second, he was explaining that the external scaler was initially necessary because he could not calibrate the projector using the DVI input without accessing the service menu. However, he later discovered, he could do it with the service CD. Moreover, the benefits of the scaler could easily be achieved with a reasonably priced HTPC (less than $1K).

PS, I don't think he uses the VP30 since it could not address the gamma issues, if I remember correctly. I think he is using a Crista unit.

I'm pretty sure you may have misunderstood his post. First, I don't think he stated it cost $3K to calibrate the projector (the usual cost is between $350-600). Second, he was explaining that the external scaler was initially necessary because he could not calibrate the projector using the DVI input without accessing the service menu. However, he later discovered, he could do it with the service CD. Moreover, the benefits of the scaler could easily be achieved with a reasonably priced HTPC (less than $1K). PS, I don't think he uses the VP30 since it could not address the gamma issues, if I remember correctly. I think he is using a Crista unit.Raul, I have two words for you; thank you :)

Timf98,

Please post more details of the Samsung vs the WD2000U, esp black levels and shadow details.

Thank you.

Hey folks...last night I watched SERENITY (the standard DVD...not high def). WOW. The WD2000U really did an awesome job projecting the image. Deep rich colors, very inky blacks, great contrast during dark scenes. Just goes to show you that DVD mastering quality is really all over the place. The input (quality of DVD image) is just as important as the output (from the projector).

Damn! Makes me want to go in to the DVD mastering business and produce top quality DVDs. There would be a market for it.

Marcus

Please post more details of the Samsung vs the WD2000U, esp black levels and shadow details.

Contrast and shadow detail I would say are roughly equal to the Samsung, but I had about 4 weeks between the Samsung dying and getting the WD2000U and I watched a first generation DLP in between, so that makes comparisons dubious. If you are after the lowest black level then you don't want a high lumen output PJ, unless...

If you take the WD2000U and set it for low lamp mode and brilliant color off, then add an ND filter, you can reduce the black level to the same or lower as the Samsung and then as the lamp ages, you can reduce the ND filtering. Plus, you can judge for yourself which you like better, low black level or high white level. I prefer high white level except for maybe star fields.

Been gone for a few days, but got a chance to take some screenshots that show the wd2000 blue fringing I was posting about last week. Pics are below. I will be sharing these pics tomorrow with a Mitisubish tech rep. Those of you weighing in on my prior descriptions are guessing it's a rare optics/alignment flaw for which I should exchange the pj... I tend to agree... will see what Mits has to say. In the mean time, I'd appreciate if you could take a look and let me know if any of you see anything like this or have any new thoughts..

These pics show that it is most pronounced as blue-ish jaggy gradients that protrude up two+ pixels from the top edge of bright horizontal items against dark backgrounds, but blue shadowing can also be seen along the sides of vertical lines as well. Seems to be a true blue shift upward because blue appears above the horizontal white lines, and the lower row of pixels of the white horizontal have a yellow'green tint (absence of blue).

The sources include the pj's internal cross-hatch test pattern, which rules out a source issue IMO. Note the test pattern cross pics show both the horizontal top edge blue, and some blue left and right of the vertical lines. Note the only difference between the left and right screen pics is that the blue shift angles more toward the left on the left side of the screen, and angles to the right on the right side of the screen.
The other shots are close-ups of hdnet material from a directv HD tivo STB set at 720P via DVI. They also show the same issue on the top edge of white horizontals.
A shot of the "FOCUS" icon is included to show that it's edges are sharp and in focus, but still the blue shift can be seen by discoloration of the top and bottom row of pixels in each letter (greenish tint in this pic due to camera's white balance).

These shots were taken after a "reset all" to factory settings, with zero keystoning. The amount of lens shift, contrast, color enhance, gamma, etc.. does not seem to change things. Projector is level and upright on a shelf.. Again, no keystoning used when these pics taken. Sources were either internal patterns / icons, or HDnet material via 720P DVI from HD STB.

Finally, I can now notice this at viewing distance, not so much with the deep blue fringe on black backgrounds, but more as a very thin shadow along the top edge of white-ish objects against medium shade backgrounds (eg, top of white shuttle booster rockets against a lighter blue sky.

Pics below:

left screen - internal test pattern:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-leftscreeninternaltestpattern-.jpg

right screen -- internal test pattern:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-rightscreeninternaltestpattern.jpg

guitar-hdnet 720P STB DVI :
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-guitar-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeysto.jpg

keyboard-hdnet 720P STB DVI:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-keyboard-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeys.jpg

credits-hdnet720P STB DVI:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-credits-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeyst.jpg

focus icon:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-focusicon-nokeystonefactoryset.jpg

I'm pretty sure you may have misunderstood his post. First, I don't think he stated it cost $3K to calibrate the projector (the usual cost is between $350-600).

Now, do not compare that to $3000 later worth of calibrated by a professional plus fed via a $5000 external video processor.

$3k seems rather high to me as well but that is what he said. ISF guys generally charge around $300-$350 for the first input and a lesser amount for each additional input. I believe he said calibrations are the only service performed by the individual he hired and for the amount charged I'd imagine this guy is at the top of his field and it was a very extensive calibration. I have no reason to doubt what he says he paid for his calibration. As with all things, you can charge whatever someone else is willing to pay.


I apologize for the misunderstanding. You have further clarified your statement and I now have a better understanding of what you were trying to say.

liebkid, I apologized for my misunderstanding and there really is not much more I can say. If you've overlooked my previous post, no problem. If you saw it and just chose to ignore it, I have no problem with that either.

This pj is the perfect candidate for Darin to come up with an add-on iris to reduce output and increase CR.

Noah, wouldn't a gray screen (e.g., Firehawk) also accomplish this?

liebkid, I apologized for my misunderstanding and there really is not much more I can say. If you've overlooked my previous post, no problem. If you saw it and just chose to ignore it, I have no problem with that either.Hey, no problem, all good :)

This pj is the perfect candidate for Darin to come up with an add-on iris to reduce output and increase CR.Yes! Darin..., this would be a great machine for you to do some magic with!!! :)

Been gone for a few days, but got a chance to take some screenshots that show the wd2000 blue fringing I was posting about last week. Pics are below. I will be sharing these pics tomorrow with a Mitisubish tech rep. Those of you weighing in on my prior descriptions are guessing it's a rare optics/alignment flaw for which I should exchange the pj... I tend to agree... will see what Mits has to say. In the mean time, I'd appreciate if you could take a look and let me know if any of you see anything like this or have any new thoughts..

These pics show that it is most pronounced as blue-ish jaggy gradients that protrude up two+ pixels from the top edge of bright horizontal items against dark backgrounds, but blue shadowing can also be seen along the sides of vertical lines as well. Seems to be a true blue shift upward because blue appears above the horizontal white lines, and the lower row of pixels of the white horizontal have a yellow'green tint (absence of blue).

The sources include the pj's internal cross-hatch test pattern, which rules out a source issue IMO. Note the test pattern cross pics show both the horizontal top edge blue, and some blue left and right of the vertical lines. Note the only difference between the left and right screen pics is that the blue shift angles more toward the left on the left side of the screen, and angles to the right on the right side of the screen.
The other shots are close-ups of hdnet material from a directv HD tivo STB set at 720P via DVI. They also show the same issue on the top edge of white horizontals.
A shot of the "FOCUS" icon is included to show that it's edges are sharp and in focus, but still the blue shift can be seen by discoloration of the top and bottom row of pixels in each letter (greenish tint in this pic due to camera's white balance).

These shots were taken after a "reset all" to factory settings, with zero keystoning. The amount of lens shift, contrast, color enhance, gamma, etc.. does not seem to change things. Projector is level and upright on a shelf.. Again, no keystoning used when these pics taken. Sources were either internal patterns / icons, or HDnet material via 720P DVI from HD STB.

Finally, I can now notice this at viewing distance, not so much with the deep blue fringe on black backgrounds, but more as a very thin shadow along the top edge of white-ish objects against medium shade backgrounds (eg, top of white shuttle booster rockets against a lighter blue sky.

Pics below:

left screen - internal test pattern:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-leftscreeninternaltestpattern-.jpg

right screen -- internal test pattern:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-rightscreeninternaltestpattern.jpg

guitar-hdnet 720P STB DVI :
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-guitar-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeysto.jpg

keyboard-hdnet 720P STB DVI:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-keyboard-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeys.jpg

credits-hdnet720P STB DVI:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-credits-hdnet720PSTBDVInokeyst.jpg

focus icon:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-focusicon-nokeystonefactoryset.jpgOk, bottom line, the lens on your PJ is bad, no more no less. I have had in the past a couple of PJs showing similar views and without an exception it was an internal optic misalignment within the lens and groups that make the whole optical assembly. You need to have your PJ exchanged for a new one. That's what I'd fight for.

I had the Samsung, now I have the WD2000U. My setup is very similar to yours. I would say get the WD2000U with one caveat. I am feeding in component for DVD and RGB for hi-def and the picture is wonderful, but I don't have to worry about feeding in 720p. If you want to feed in 720p via DVI, then maybe the aforementioned picture softening due to rescaling will be a problem. I'm hoping the new Denon 2930 will output 768p so I can move to DVD via the DVI interface.

So as long as you're using component on any source, you won't get the 720P rescaling softness problem? What if you're going 1080 on a 720 source via DVI? Also aside from all the reliability horrors of the Samsungs, on the basis of just picture quality, was the WD2000U obviously superior, or just different?

Yes! Darin..., this would be a great machine for you to do some magic with!!! :)The first thing I would probably do is try to paint over the white segment. :)

--Darin

The first thing I would probably do is try to paint over the white segment. :) --DarinThat you can turn off on the user menu but, till you see BrilliantColor implemented in this PJ, archive that thought. This PJ rivals the color and gray scale reproduction of any and all 3 chip DLPs I have seen. No dithering, no color and luminance artifacts, plus a gamma dynamic range that surpasses any video projector I have seen to date. My grayscale test patterns finally reveal details no other PJ to date had managed to. Trust me, if there is one projector out there for you to go scratch your head and figure out how they did it and what can be done to still improve upon it with the massive light it has to spare for better CR... its this one.

That you can turn off on the user menu but, till you see BrilliantColor implemented in this PJ, archive that thought.Have you seen the Optoma HD72? Do you think the BrilliantColor is a different implementation in this one than the HD72? Turning off the white segment in the user menu means less on/off CR than they would have gotten with no white segment since it lets light through for "black" and not for white.

--Darin

Have you seen the Optoma HD72? Do you think the BrilliantColor is a different implementation in this one than the HD72? Turning off the white segment in the user menu means less on/off CR than they would have gotten with no white segment since it lets light through for "black" and not for white.Darin, yes I've seen the Optoma HD72. First of all and in a word, the HD72 sucks. The design of both the optical/lighting path and software/use of BrilliantColor are completely different. The WD2000U outshines the Optoma HD72 by a vast range in the overall picture it delivers no matter the better CR specs on paper the HD72 claims. Also, I found the HD72 to display among the most horribly noisiest pictures I've seen from a DLP machine at any price... the WD2000U on the other hand is clean as glass... cleaner than just about any 1 chip DLP and cleaner than machines like the Panny 7000U, SIM2 C3X and other guys out there in the 3 chip DLP world. Also, the HD72's fan noise is much louder than the WD2000U, that is, at less than 1/2 the brightness output capability (!)... hmmm... yeah.... Comparing the HD72 to the WD2000U is a sin. Now, I could compare it to the H79 which I then sold to get a BenQ 8720 which I found better and far, far more reliable than the Optoma that was plagued with problems (mine at least). Of course then I sold the BenQ in favor of the WD2000U. Should I say more? I know you successfully modded the H79 with great results. I am sure you could do the same with the WD2000U with a great potential outcome while, actually having some light left on the screen at the end! When you were selling your modded H79 on eBay and was almost tempted to get it... but the unit was left with such a dim picture that it would not have worked for me in any way :)

After leaving a message on my blue fringe issue on the Mits tech support line, a Mits eng'g manager from CA contacted me directly & we had a good discussion. After he saw my screenshot images, he quickly agreed the problem was not acceptable, & arranged for a replacement pj to be shipped to me. I get to keep the current pj until I receive the replacement and then ship it back at their expense. He wants to personally examine this pj when it returns because of the uniqueness of the problem.

Have to say I'm impressed with this level of customer service for a problem like this. Should have the new pj by Monday.

After leaving a message on my blue fringe issue on the Mits tech support line, a Mits eng'g manager from CA contacted me directly & we had a good discussion. After he saw my screenshot images, he quickly agreed the problem was not acceptable, & arranged for a replacement pj to be shipped to me. I get to keep the current pj until I receive the replacement and then ship it back at their expense. He wants to personally examine this pj when it returns because of the uniqueness of the problem. Have to say I'm impressed with this level of customer service for a problem like this. Should have the new pj by Monday.RinkerD, I am happy to hear that. This is great news. I have had so far two questions I had to call Mitsu's support on and on both occasions they were extremely knowledgeable and courteous. In these days, it is an exception when you get this type of interest and service from manufacturers and service reps. I am extremely impressed with their product and also with them as a brand. After horrid (horrid!!!) phone conversations in the past from people at Sony, Optoma, Infocus and a few others, Mitsubishi is doing things right in many fronts.

Projectorcentral has just reviewed the Sanyo plv75 - 2200lumens 900:1 lcd. The review is interesting because they illustrate how a high lumen low contrast projector will clearly outperform a typical home theatre projector(low lumens, high contrast) in a large screen application.

I had the Samsung, now I have the WD2000U. My setup is very similar to yours. I would say get the WD2000U with one caveat. I am feeding in component for DVD and RGB for hi-def and the picture is wonderful, but I don't have to worry about feeding in 720p. If you want to feed in 720p via DVI, then maybe the aforementioned picture softening due to rescaling will be a problem. I'm hoping the new Denon 2930 will output 768p so I can move to DVD via the DVI interface.

It would appear that this projector has a lot going for it - this is probably the only significant concern for me. I do indeed want to feed 720p via DVI (from an OPPO and a Directv HD box). It would seem that I will in fact need an external scaler if I want the best picture (I do not plan to get an HTPC), and that of course makes it somewhat less of a bargain. I am still very tempted though...

One question: I assume the extra 48 lines are ignored when 16:9 aspect ratio is selected. Is this effectively a 24 line overscan at the top and the bottom?

Thanks,
Mike

Can someone (Liebkind?) tell me how far above the top of the screen the wd-2000 can be mounted? E.g., the Optoma HD-81 has a '27% offset', meaning this it must be mounted 27% of the screen ht above the top of the screen. Now I know that the wd-2000 has verticle lens shift, but I don't know what the range of it is. TIA.

What ceiling mount is everyone using with this projector? I just pulled the trigger on it today. Now, of course, my new house is falling a little behind schedule...

What ceiling mount is everyone using with this projector? I just pulled the trigger on it today. Now, of course, my new house is falling a little behind schedule...I need to talk to my installer about what he thinks, but I was thinking about building a shelf for the projector and mounting it upside down to the bottom of the shelf at 72" from the floor, so I could use as little lens shift as possible.

Does anyone foresee any problems with this idea? I think someone else mentioned it in this thread, I know it's not my idea, I read it on AVS somewhere.

This doesn't help you out much, though. Sorry 'bout that.

Can someone (Liebkind?) tell me how far above the top of the screen the wd-2000 can be mounted? E.g., the Optoma HD-81 has a '27% offset', meaning this it must be mounted 27% of the screen ht above the top of the screen. Now I know that the wd-2000 has verticle lens shift, but I don't know what the range of it is. TIA.

In my setup, the picture won't go much above the PJ lens, but can go quite a bit lower. Not sure how much but I think it's at least 50% of the picture height.

I need to talk to my installer about what he thinks, but I was thinking about building a shelf for the projector and mounting it upside down to the bottom of the shelf at 72" from the floor, so I could use as little lens shift as possible.

Does anyone foresee any problems with this idea?

The PJ is about 17" deep, so it will have to be a deep shelf, and strong as the PJ weighs over 20lbs. Other than that, should be OK.

So as long as you're using component on any source, you won't get the 720P rescaling softness problem? What if you're going 1080 on a 720 source via DVI? Also aside from all the reliability horrors of the Samsungs, on the basis of just picture quality, was the WD2000U obviously superior, or just different?

I don't have a 720p DVI source to test but there is a aspect setting called REAL, I wonder if this would keep the pixel mapping without scaling. Anyone know?

In addition to my previous question about whether going all component on the inputs gets rid of scaling problems in 720P I also wonder about this. Will the extra brightness of the Mits cause problems for the rainbow sensitive like myself? I know it's been said that many times rainbow/DLP fatique problems can be solved by lowering the brightness level. Any observations?

I know it's been said that many times rainbow/DLP fatique problems can be solved by lowering the brightness level. Any observations?
Well, the nice thing about this FP is that you could virtually tailor it to your lumens requirement (I would imagine). With the assistance of some ND filters you could tame the projector as much as you want. Better yet, you might be able to use a filter to tame it and raise its on/off cr, and you still should have ample lumens.

I don't see this projector on any sort of calculator. With an eight foot ceiling and a seventeen foot throw, would this projector work for me?

Is the lens on this pj threaded to take a ND filter, and if so what size?

I don't see this projector on any sort of calculator. With an eight foot ceiling and a seventeen foot throw, would this projector work for me?

There's a calculator on Mitsubishi's web site, but the lens shift portion is too confusing for me to understand. I have an 8 foot ceiling and project on a 120" screen from 15'4" lens to screen, zoomed almost fully. The projector is 17" deep so the biggest you can go is 120" diagonal (maybe 123" if you're lucky).

I don't see this projector on any sort of calculator. With an eight foot ceiling and a seventeen foot throw, would this projector work for me?There's a pretty good diagram in the PDF on Mitsubishi's website. There's a link to the product page in the first post of the this thread.

On a somewhat related note, should I try to mount my projector so that no/minimal lens shift is needed, since I'll be adding an anamorphic lens in a few months for constant height?

Quick question regarding placement of the PJ. Let's say for a moment that I want to place the PJ behind a wall (guest room) and from there cut out a small hole through the wall into the viewing room. From what I have seen, I would need to place the PJ at least 6" from the main wall to allow air intake, which leads me to the question about the throw of the image coming through that distance and the wall?

How wide to does the image get and how fast does it start to widen? I would hate to punch a whole through my wall to find out that the image is now being cropped due to the throw of the image...

Hope that made sense...any response would be really appreciated

How wide to does the image get and how fast does it start to widen? I would hate to punch a whole through my wall to find out that the image is now being cropped due to the throw of the image...

It's a linear relationship. Use the following equation...

(Hole Height / Screen Height) = (Lens to Hole Distance / Lens to Screen Distance)
and
(Hole Width / Screen Width) = (Lens to Hole Distance / Lens to Screen Distance)

The Lens to hole distance is to the exit side of the hole. Add an extra 25% to account for miscellaneous stuff.

On a somewhat related note, should I try to mount my projector so that no/minimal lens shift is needed, since I'll be adding an anamorphic lens in a few months for constant height?

Sounds like a good idea. I'm at the end of vertical lens shift and zoom in, and I have some geometric distortion, not too bad but noticeable to me.

throw calculator:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-WD2000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

liebkid or anyone else with a HTPC connected to the WD2000U, I tried the native 1280x768 resolution in windows(Nvidia 6600GT videocard) and it showed up as a half screen with the lower half covered in crap. I then put it into 1280x720 and it looked better, then I went into advanced timings and custom set it from 720 to 768 and it looks OK, but it does allow for a custom setting with Front Porch/Back Porch, Freq, Etc. Does anyone know these settings or should I call Mits on Monday for them?

Or could this be a driver issue and that is why it will not display the native 1280x768 signal?


Thanks,

Jim

Trying to get my mind around the issue of 720 vs 768 and the native feed issue for someone who doesn't have a vp.

I think I've read all the posts. In summary here's what I've picked up, but there seem to be some contradictions, hence my confusion...

1) Early statements: technically it's 15:9, but don't worry, just feed it 720 and the top & bottom lines will be black/unused & you'll get a 16:9 720 native image (essentially saying it can handle either vp/htpc 768 or 720 equally well, "natively")... OK fine.. no problem..

2) not so fast, there is a problem... feeding 720 results in the pj scaling up to 768 and then scaling back to 720 resulting in softness, versus the sharpest possible image if feeding with 768. Ok... how much does this have to do with whether I use the 720 setting vs auto setting.. or does it matter? And, if the pj does insist on re-scaling any input other than 768, would I expect to possibly get better results feeding with 1080 vs 720, or is that just a try it and see situation?

3) more statements that seem to reenforce both #1 and #2 above.

4) I believe ianken mentioned at one point that via the overscan settings he thought he could achieve pixel perfect mapping with straight 720 input... how does this relate to overcoming issue #2, if at all?

5) and then there's the Mits data sheet itself which claims 16:9 native resolution.... if it's really 15:9 and can't achieve 16:9 on standard 720 HD inputs without rescaling, how can they claim 16:9 "native" resolution at all?

I can use my htpc & myhd to get nvidia 768 output (for DVDs and OTA HD) that will drive it with it with the true native resolution, but I've got an HD STB DVI signal to deal with which can only produce 720p or 1080i. That's why I want to make sure I understand the finer points of this, & make a decision on some sort of vp or not (as far as a means to get pixel mapping perfection).. I'm pretty convinced that the #2 argument above has been proven by liebkid & others... but I'm trying to understand how the other comments and intepretations fit in. I realize some of this may just be new learning superceding prior statements, but it's tough for me to tell in this case.

Thanks in advance for any clarifications..

liebkid or anyone else with a HTPC connected to the WD2000U, I tried the native 1280x768 resolution in windows(Nvidia 6600GT videocard) and it showed up as a half screen with the lower half covered in crap. I then put it into 1280x720 and it looked better, then I went into advanced timings and custom set it from 720 to 768 and it looks OK, but it does allow for a custom setting with Front Porch/Back Porch, Freq, Etc. Does anyone know these settings or should I call Mits on Monday for them? Or could this be a driver issue and that is why it will not display the native 1280x768 signal? ThanksJim, I have a 6800GT and just set up a custom setting at 1280x768 (DVI Out) and it worked out of the box at all defaults. Keep in mind the PJ does not like to have frequencies and resolutions changed on the fly without a reset of the input so, whenever you make a change on the resolution from the HTPC, switch the input on the Mitsu to something else and then back to DVI so it refreshes it, otherwise you get crap or nothing displayed. Also, make sure you are using the latest version of the Forceware Drivers and DirectX 9c.

I've seen the Optoma HD72. First of all and in a word, the HD72 sucks.
Liebkid, can I ask, have you seen the IN76? I am upgrading from an h57 and was interested in a PJ around 2K. The hd72 had some good reviews but I think the IN76 is considered better. I was also looking at the Mits hc3000U but owners were telling me it needs an ISF calibration whereas the IN76 doesn't.
I also was considering the Optoma h78 but I have heard horror stories about the design basically making the bulbs die quickly.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Dave

Thanks Tim for the help...that seems straight forward.

Liebkid, can I ask, have you seen the IN76? I am upgrading from an h57 and was interested in a PJ around 2K. The hd72 had some good reviews but I think the IN76 is considered better. I was also looking at the Mits hc3000U but owners were telling me it needs an ISF calibration whereas the IN76 doesn't. I also was considering the Optoma h78 but I have heard horror stories about the design basically making the bulbs die quickly. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. ThanksDave, I have not seen the IN76. I had the H79 and it was a nightmare, though you should not pre-judge the IN76 because of problems with a previous generation machine. Hopefully Optoma has addressed all issues in the new machines.

Trying to get my mind around the issue of 720 vs 768 and the native feed issue for someone who doesn't have a vp.

2) not so fast, there is a problem... feeding 720 results in the pj scaling up to 768 and then scaling back to 720 resulting in softness, versus the sharpest possible image if feeding with 768. Ok... how much does this have to do with whether I use the 720 setting vs auto setting.. or does it matter? And, if the pj does insist on re-scaling any input other than 768, would I expect to possibly get better results feeding with 1080 vs 720, or is that just a try it and see situation?


This is not the case. When you feed it 720p via DVI you need to go in and disable overscan. Then you will get 1:1 maping of 720p content.

Anything other than 1280x768 has overscan cropping applied, you can adjust it in the user menus.

It looks fuzzy because the image is cropped then scaled to 720p. But, if you dial back the overscan you will get 100% pixel perfet 1:1 mapping with 720p input.

This projector is truly awesome. The features, performance and value are all off the charts. If you have a need for a large screen 130 +" or have some ambient light issues in your room this projector is a must have. I am very satisfied. Thanks

This is not the case. When you feed it 720p via DVI you need to go in and disable overscan. Then you will get 1:1 maping of 720p content.

Anything other than 1280x768 has overscan cropping applied, you can adjust it in the user menus.

It looks fuzzy because the image is cropped then scaled to 720p. But, if you dial back the overscan you will get 100% pixel perfet 1:1 mapping with 720p input.

Ianken,

Thanks for that info. I took a look at the overscan menu, & there's no disable per se, just a range adjustable from 90 to 100%. It was set at 97%. I dialed around & saw that going to 100% seemed to be the no-crop point where the image did come in off the sides for the first time, & it did sharpen up noticably at 100%..... is that the pixel perfect setting that you mean when you say "disable"?
That's good news because several other posts seem to indicate that if the pj isn't driven with a 768 source you can't avoid the softness from 720 material because of forced re-scaling by the pj... that's what was throwing me, because I had seen your earlier post about adjusting overscan for pixel perfect... seemed like no one else was picking up on it (or maybe it was just obvious to everyone else :)..

So, in the end, is it correct to assume that disabling overscan by setting to 100% eliminates the 720 input softness and restores the same 1:1 mapping and sharpness that one would get if driving with a native 768 HTPC or VP source?

Thanks.

Jim, I have a 6800GT and just set up a custom setting at 1280x768 (DVI Out) and it worked out of the box at all defaults. Keep in mind the PJ does not like to have frequencies and resolutions changed on the fly without a reset of the input so, whenever you make a change on the resolution from the HTPC, switch the input on the Mitsu to something else and then back to DVI so it refreshes it, otherwise you get crap or nothing displayed. Also, make sure you are using the latest version of the Forceware Drivers and DirectX 9c.

Thanks, after updating to the latest drivers, I was able to get 1280x768 to work correctly(direct from HTPC to Projo) BUT not going through the DVDO VP30, this also happened with my HTPC with a Radeon video card, basically it does not "pass" the video and have to resort to a 720P resolution for me to see a picture(I do this remotely through VNC)

Looks like it is time to call DVDO to find out WHY it does not pass this resolution.

Anyone else with a HTPC and VP30 with the Mits having problems doing this?

no screenshots still ? :)

how loud is it ?
how would you compare it in terms of brightness with the OPTOMA H72, BENQ 7700 for instance, both yielding about 700ansi lumens in full brithness (not D65 thus) ?

thos WD2000 has everything imho and finally we get DLP for home theater, with full connectivity and ease of use-installation AND punch for those of us who only swear by 350-450cm scope screens :D

I'm thinking of buying this, but I'm going direct to the PJ, no scaler. I'll use DVI for my Tosh HD DVD player at 1080i, and my STB though component, which also puts out 1080i (except for ABC-HD at 720)

Will I have any problems with a soft picture, or will it still be razor-sharp as described here? Some of the in-depth technical stuff escapes me, and i won't be calibrating it with the service menu disc. So how will my picture look? Help would be greatly appreciated

Just for giggles I ran the Projection Calculator for my setup (92" screen, 13.5 ft throw distance, and 1.0 screen gain) and I came up with 90ftL :eek:

Hypothetically speaking, what can I do to bring down the brightness to a more reasonable level? :cool:

80FTL i would say (2000/25sqFT).
i agree unless you have white walls all over and light coming in it's a bit excessive.
if it's a dedicated room, go for 172-180" wide scope screen. microperforated. add an ISCO lens.
and have somone bring the pop corn :)
even a gray screen for your size will still yield a ton of brigthness.
now if it was me, the SMPTE recs of 12-15FTL are not enough to get the "snappy" images.
i say we should aim at 25-30FTL if possible. the liveliness is so bigger.
a TV tube is about 50FTL....

This pj cries out for an adjustable iris.

This would give it the versatility of being a light cannon for use in lit environments, as well as a HT machine w/improved CR in a dark environment.

If people would mention this to Mits, maybe they'll add it or put it in a later model.

Thanks

Just for giggles I ran the Projection Calculator for my setup (92" screen, 13.5 ft throw distance, and 1.0 screen gain) and I came up with 90ftL :eek:

Hypothetically speaking, what can I do to bring down the brightness to a more reasonable level? :cool:That is at the purely mathematically calculated brightness at the theoretical maximum output of the PJ. Far from reality in all fronts. You will realistically be getting about 1/3 of that value with the PJ properly calibrated and the lamp on low mode. If that's still too bright, just use a ND filter. The PJ's lens thread is 82mm.

Thanks, after updating to the latest drivers, I was able to get 1280x768 to work correctly(direct from HTPC to Projo) BUT not going through the DVDO VP30, this also happened with my HTPC with a Radeon video card, basically it does not "pass" the video and have to resort to a 720P resolution for me to see a picture(I do this remotely through VNC)

Looks like it is time to call DVDO to find out WHY it does not pass this resolution.

Anyone else with a HTPC and VP30 with the Mits having problems doing this?I may be wrong on this one as I don't know the VP30 personally, but, just like the Crystalio-I VP that I have for example, the VP30 might simply not take DVI signals coming from an HTPC. The vast majority of VPs out there just don't eat output coming from computer's video cards.

That is at the purely mathematically calculated brightness at the theoretical maximum output of the PJ. Far from reality in all fronts. You will realistically be getting about 1/3 of that value with the PJ properly calibrated and the lamp on low mode. If that's still too bright, just use a ND filter. The PJ's lens thread is 82mm.

the WD2000 to me means BIG SCREENS. cinemascope screens 350-450cm wide without gain. remember even a 720DLP can look sharper than the VW100...
while being 4x brigther....

HDsignals+ ISCO II +400-500cm scope screen + WD2000 is the combo to think about...

the WD2000 to me means BIG SCREENS. cinemascope screens 350-450cm wide without gain.I agree absolutely.remember even a 720DLP can look sharper than the VW100... while being 4x brigther...Oh, I know that :)HDsignals+ ISCO II +400-500cm scope screen + WD2000 is the combo to think about...I agree again :)

I may be wrong on this one as I don't know the VP30 personally, but, just like the Crystalio-I VP that I have for example, the VP30 might simply not take DVI signals coming from an HTPC. The vast majority of VPs out there just don't eat output coming from computer's video cards.

I found out that the VP30 will not accept a 1280x768 resolutions Attention to all of you that want to use one for a VP and feed a HTPC to it, it does NOT work!

So it looks like I will be getting an external 4X2 splitter(an output for another display device) so that I can feed NATIVE 1280x768 devices to this device, hence bypassing the VP30.

I'm thinking of buying this, but I'm going direct to the PJ, no scaler. I'll use DVI for my Tosh HD DVD player at 1080i, and my STB though component, which also puts out 1080i (except for ABC-HD at 720)

Will I have any problems with a soft picture, or will it still be razor-sharp as described here? Some of the in-depth technical stuff escapes me, and i won't be calibrating it with the service menu disc. So how will my picture look? Help would be greatly appreciated

I'll try again. Anyone?

That is at the purely mathematically calculated brightness at the theoretical maximum output of the PJ. Far from reality in all fronts. You will realistically be getting about 1/3 of that value with the PJ properly calibrated and the lamp on low mode. If that's still too bright, just use a ND filter. The PJ's lens thread is 82mm.


So theoretically, all results from the Projection Calculator are 3 times too high? :eek:

So theoretically, all results from the Projection Calculator are 3 times too high? :eek:No, but they are calculated on mathematics based purely on the manufacturer's specs, which are both usually never quite correct and positively never referred to a machine's ideal calibration setting, where light output is at least 1/2 of spec'ed. That is why the higher the light output to start with the better. Buying projectors with claimed maximum lumens at 600 to 1000 for me is suicidal. The calibrated image with be extremely dim. Now add 200 or 300 hours on that bulb, cut by half the light by then, and if you're getting 150 to 200 lumens on screen, you're lucky. The WD2000U is THE 720p single-chip PJ on the market. It is brighter than just about anything else out there, sharper than some 1080p machines I've seen, smooth and film-like artifact free like many 3 chippers aren't, and with a gamma tracking/ color punch unlike anything else I've see. IT IS THE PJ!

I'm thinking of buying this, but I'm going direct to the PJ, no scaler. I'll use DVI for my Tosh HD DVD player at 1080i, and my STB though component, which also puts out 1080i (except for ABC-HD at 720)

Will I have any problems with a soft picture, or will it still be razor-sharp as described here? Some of the in-depth technical stuff escapes me, and i won't be calibrating it with the service menu disc. So how will my picture look? Help would be greatly appreciated.

I'll try again. Anyone?You'll have a razor-sharp perfect image on screen. Set the machine along the values already posted on this thread and make sure overscan is set to 100%. That's it to make you one very happy man :)

No, but they are calculated on mathematics based purely on the manufacturer's specs, which are both usually never quite correct and positively never referred to a machine's ideal calibration setting, where light output is at least 1/2 of spec'ed. That is why the higher the light output to start with the better. Buying projectors with claimed maximum lumens at 600 to 1000 for me is suicidal. The calibrated image with be extremely dim. Now add 200 or 300 hours on that bulb, cut by half the light by then, and if you're getting 150 to 200 lumens on screen, you're lucky. The WD2000U is THE 720p single-chip PJ on the market. It is brighter than just about anything else out there, sharper than some 1080p machines I've seen, smooth and film-like artifact free like many 3 chippers aren't, and with a gamma tracking/ color punch unlike anything else I've see. IT IS THE PJ!


Okay, let's get down to specifics for the Mits. For my requirements (approx. 13.5' throw) is it going to cost me extra to get a short throw lens? Since there are several lens iterations for the Mits which is the standard lens?

Okay, let's get down to specifics for the Mits. For my requirements (approx. 13.5' throw) is it going to cost me extra to get a short throw lens? Since there are several lens iterations for the Mits which is the standard lens?You're safe. The standard zoom lens on the PJ as it ships will cover your screen area with a 13.5' throw.

Okay, let's get down to specifics for the Mits. For my requirements (approx. 13.5' throw) is it going to cost me extra to get a short throw lens? Since there are several lens iterations for the Mits which is the standard lens?

Your screen diag is to be 92", right? This is a width of 80", so at 13.5 ft, your throw ratio is 162"/80" ~ 2.0, right in the middle of the range for the standard lens, I believe.

You're safe. The standard zoom lens on the PJ as it ships will cover your screen area with a 13.5' throw.

Thanks, Liebkid! Now I have to decide on the screen! Probably a matte white or high contrast grey might work. What do you suggest?

Your screen diag is to be 92", right? This is a width of 80", so at 13.5 ft, your throw ratio is 162"/80" ~ 2.0, right in the middle of the range for the standard lens, I believe.


Yeah, that's about the maximun size screen I can have for my setup so the 13.5 ft throw will put me in the middle of the zoom adjustment. Thanks, Bill.

Thanks, Liebkid! Now I have to decide on the screen! Probably a matte white or high contrast grey might work. What do you suggest?Depends on how much money you want to spend. I'd go ideally with a Stewart Greyhawk or Firehawk.

Liebkid's posts have been very helpful, but I'd like to hear from others who've bought this PJ and what they think of it. Obviously, opinions are subjective and i wish I could see it in action before I pull the trigger, but I guess that's not possible.

I only have an 11 foot throw so my diagonal would be around 85" zoomed all the way out, I think. I'd be very interested in others opinions who have bought this Mits.

Liebkid's posts have been very helpful, but I'd like to hear from others who've bought this PJ and what they think of it. Obviously, opinions are subjective and i wish I could see it in action before I pull the trigger, but I guess that's not possible.

I only have an 11 foot throw so my diagonal would be around 85" zoomed all the way out, I think. I'd be very interested in others opinions who have bought this Mits.ahro, I totally agree. I believe I have contributed enough to this thread as it is so I am stepping aside from this one onto other matters and just enjoy everyone else throw-in their says. Cudos for Mitsu for this a*w*e*s*o*m*e machine! :)

Thanks liebkid for all the great work you put into this thread. Now go enjoy some movies.

Jonathan

One more day till I get the WD2000U!

Thanks liebkid for all the great work you put into this thread. Now go enjoy some movies.

Jonathan

Ditto that :) :) ---- now does anyone else own this unit?

I just got my unit and did some viewing this weekend. Overall, I was extremely impressed.(and this was without a dedicated screen or in depth calibration) IMO, the projector is an amazing value. I think that if you have a dedicated dark theater room viewing and don't desire a large screen I think you could be just as happy with a number of other good projectors. However, for my room and constraints it is the best projector for me. (some ambient light, 151 " diagonal ). I think however this thread is right on the money. This projector is just that good.

I have a WD2000U. Replaced my SIM2 C3X 3 chipper. The Mitsubishi is better in every way... much brighter when calibrated, cleaner, sharper, quieter, better colors, spectacular gamma ramp... it is the only machine I can honestly say matches and surpasses the performance of 3 chip DLPs. I also have a Ruby... it is unbearable now. Even after being serviced at Sony to correct panel misconvergence (its off by about one pixel now) it is not anywhere nearly as pitch sharp as the Mitsu. I had the Sony on a 95" projection area on my 170" diagonal screen and, it is dim as hell. Now at 15 feet seating distance, I use the Mitsu to fill the whole 170" screen, and it is bright... I mean spectacular.

Plus, there is no SDE to be seen... who needs 1080p... really?... The WD2000U is the best PJ I have ever owned, by far... very far. I've owned a ton of PJs and always compromised low lumens for a better picture. When switching to the SIM2 C3X I had hopes to finally combine awesome picture quality with high brightness. But, the C3X proved to be about the nosiest PJ I have had. Great colors and CR but the dirtiest pic one can imagine... At about 1/4 of the price, the WD2000U trumps the SIM2 with flying colors, and delivers an image that is beyond words. I will never settle for low lumens output PJs. There is nothing like a punchy bright image jumping at you from the screen, and, no matter the 2000:1 CR spec'ed on the Mitsu, its actual performance on screen, blows the blacks off the C3X and the Ruby right out-of-the-water. This thing has to be seen to be believed.

Without a doubt on my mind, this is the world's best 720P projector ever made, with a performance comparable or better than 3 chip machines, brighter than just everything else out there, and with a value for the dollar that is simply surreal. 380 hours on the bulb (running in low mode) and going strong and sunlight bright as the first day!

I have a WD2000U. Replaced my SIM2 C3X 3 chipper. The Mitsubishi is better in every way... much brighter when calibrated, cleaner, sharper, quieter, better colors, spectacular gamma ramp... it is the only machine I can honestly say matches and surpasses the performance of 3 chip DLPs. I also have a Ruby... it is unbearable now. Even after being serviced at Sony to correct panel misconvergence (its off by about one pixel now) it is not anywhere nearly as pitch sharp as the Mitsu. I had the Sony on a 95" projection area on my 170" diagonal screen and, it is dim as hell. Now at 15 feet seating distance, I use the Mitsu to fill the whole 170" screen, and it is bright... I mean spectacular.

Plus, there is no SDE to be seen... who needs 1080p... really?... The WD2000U is the best PJ I have ever owned, by far... very far. I've owned a ton of PJs and always compromised low lumens for a better picture. When switching to the SIM2 C3X I had hopes to finally combine awesome picture quality with high brightness. But, the C3X proved to be about the nosiest PJ I have had. Great colors and CR but the dirtiest pic one can imagine... At about 1/4 of the price, the WD2000U trumps the SIM2 with flying colors, and delivers an image that is beyond words. I will never settle for low lumens output PJs. There is nothing like a punchy bright image jumping at you from the screen, and, no matter the 2000:1 CR spec'ed on the Mitsu, it blows the blacks off the C3X and the Ruby

Without a doubt on my mind, this is the world's best 720P projector ever made, with a performance comparable or better than 3 chip machines, brighter than just everything else out there, and with a value for the dollar that is simply surreal. 380 hours on the bulb (running in low mode) and going strong and sunlight bright as the first day!


Bizplayer:

What screen do you have?

Bizplayer:

What screen do you have?

Same question to 12GAUGE.

Bizplayer: What screen do you have? I have two screens... same sizes. One I use for still slide projection and for the Ruby which is a Da-Lite High-power with 2.8 gain, and the other one for the Mitsubishi is a Da-Lite High Contrast Da-Mat with 0.8 gain. The Mitsu with the High-power is too bright even on low bulb mode while the blacks and overall CR is better with the High Contrast Da-Mat.

To give you an idea of raw performance, the Mitsubishi in low power mode with 380 hours on the bulb on a 170" screen with 0.8 gain, is much brighter than the Ruby with a new bulb on a 95" screen with 2.8 gain!!! Do I need to say more? :)

My quickie test was performed on just a bare wall . I will go with possibly a Da lite Hi Power or a Stewart Grayhawk. I am still building up the room ,but I wanted to get and idea of what the WD2000U could do. Uncalibrated and projected onto a wall was still pretty impressive. So I am excited about getting a reall screen up and doing a good calibration.

I have two screens... same sizes. One I use for still slide projection and for the Ruby which is a Da-Lite High-power with 2.8 gain, and the other one for the Mitsubishi is a Da-Lite High Contrast Da-Mat with 0.8 gain. The Mitsu with the High-power is too bright even on low bulb mode while the blacks and overall CR is better with the High Contrast Da-Mat.

To give you an idea of raw performance, the Mitsubishi in low power mode with 380 hours on the bulb on a 170" screen with 0.8 gain, is much brighter than the Ruby with a new bulb on a 95" screen with 2.8 gain!!! Do I need to say more? :)


Very impressive! :eek: :D

OK, I'm being sucked into this PJ like a number of others have.........

I still have a number of reservations and concerns and I haven't seen all answered here yet. One of my biggest concerns is that I am moderately sensitive to rainbows - the first PJ in my house was the Infocus 7200 and both my wife and I saw rainbows (though not popping off the screen all over the place - just when I quickly turn to my wife or kids to say did you see that or a quick dart to one side of the screen when some action scenes appear, etc). We then tried the Sony HS-10 and it was good - no rainbows and no strain whatsoever while watching.

But, with that came no blacks, just dark grays, slight panel misconvergence, low light level (110" Stewart Firehawk screen in a 90% light controlled room with light colored walls/carpter) and SDE (minimal) and noise from fan (PJ is ceiling attached <4' behind and above my head). Sold the HS-10 and got the HS-20 - but still have all the above with only a very little better dark grays. I need another PJ that I can afford - trying to hold out for an affordable 1080p PJ but seeing the comments from those with/seen the Ruby and 3-chip DLP's still prefer this PJ has got me very interested.

So, first question I haven't seen answered - how prevalent are rainbows with the WD2000U? Sounds like minimal dark scene "DLP squirmies" - but with no dark green 7th segment wheel? How truely smooth is the gray scale ramp - any contouring? How quiet is this PJ compared to the Ruby? I have very sensitive ears and the HS-20 is way too distracting for me. And finally, if I do go with DLP it is between this unit and the Benq 8720, so I will likely cross post this in the 8720 thread for any real comparisons/feedback.

Thanks,
daggerNC

just a FYI.

A few reasons that I have not given a full review(other then too little time to do it) is that my ND2 filter is on order, they did not have the size in stock and had to order it.

Second, my projector has a minor flaw that is being taken care of due to the great customer service of projectorsuperstore.com. When mits assembled my projector it looks like that they did not use gloves or they were dirty. I have a "blob" on the bottom of my screen and after a little investigation on my part, I found a "smudge" behind the lens, it looks like it is between the colorwheel and the lens, not sure where or if I could clean, but WHY should I? It is a brand new projector and I should not have this problems and Mits(and my supplier) agree.

I also need to purchase a 4x2 switcher to keep my 1280x768p resolution from my 2 PC's and my MYHD card, so another expense that I did not plan on.....But hey it is my hobby ...


Jim

So, first question I haven't seen answered - how prevalent are rainbows with the WD2000U?

I don't know, I don't see rainbows with a 1x color wheel. :)
If you are sensitive or worried, you must see the projector in action before you buy. Rumor is Mitsubishi's coming out with a 1080 lcd PJ soon, but only 1000 lumens I believe.

Well,

At the risk of becoming "Mr Downer" of the WD2000 thread, thought I'd share today's headache.... Received my replacement WD2000 from Mits which sadly has a similar but worse problem than the first in the "optics anomally" arena. I'm pasting in below my email to my tech mgr contact at Mits.... it recaps the issue I'm having... You can see pics of the problem with the first pj a few pages back in this thread... very similar on the fringing front. If any of you WD2000 owners are bored, I'd greatly appreciate if you could punch up your internal cross-hatch test pattern (under the Installation tab of the user menu), take an up-close look at it and see if you are experiencing anything at all like what my pics below show.... Liebkid has a few WD2000s and has seen nothing of the sort.... I'm assuming the normal/expected display of such an internal pattern on a DLP machine should be virtually perfect (ie, the horizontal and vet lines are pure white, exactly 2 pixels wide, surrounded by pure black with little or no fringing of off-colors into adjacent pixels)... if that's not what you see, please let me know.. I'd love to find out that I'm doing something wrong, but darn'd if I can figure out what...

Anyway, on the bright side, when I manage to turn off my left-brain concerns, I'm still enjoying the many overall great WD2000 qualities that all of you have described.. just in search of getting the what the machine is fully capable of..

To Mits, today:

"Well John, this is unbelievable. I got the replacement WD2000 today, happily hooked it up, only to find it exhibits the same/slightly worse blue fringing as the first pj, and also has a fairly severe focus non-uniformity/degredation from right to left across the screen. Attached are two pics... one is with the right edge of screen focused (to show how bad it degrades to the left) and one with the center focused to show focus degredation to both the left and right. Fringing grows steadily worse from right to left regardless. Each pic shows a close-up of the left, center, and right portions of the screen with a single focus setting. So, I'm getting similar blue fringe, but much more variability across the screen, as well as much poorer focus uniformity than the first pj. Again, I used that internal crosshatch pattern for comparison and to rule out signal source issues... the problem is of course similar on actual material coming in on DVI 720P from my HD STB.

To recap my setup: out of the box, no changes, did "Reset All" multiple times, no keystone adjustments, with and without a DVI input attached, tried with and without vert and horiz lens shift, tried in and out of focus, turned off all surrounding equipment, tried dedicated power line to wall, tried off center firing just to see effect (tilted pj up, tilted pj down, angled to right, angled to left), & lastly, I made one adjustment to set overscan to 100% to eliminate any scaling artifacts (probably not relevant to the internal test pattern anyway)..... but nothing caused a change.. The pj is upright on a shelf, centered on screen horizontally and vertically. Checked distance from lens to left and right edges of screen --- 218 inches +/- 1/2 inch (to prove screen was square to pj).. I'm zoomed in heavily due to a 105 inch diag screen.. Noticed that full zoom-out reduced the proportion of the fringing somewhat (ie., DLP pixels get bigger, but optical crap stays about the same size, but still not good).

I don't know if I'm living in the twilight zone, if I'm just the unluckiest pj buyer of 2006, or if Mits is sending me units from a lot that just has bad optics... just can't believe it.. I continue to hear from all the other happy WD2000 buyers on the forums that see no such problem (or at least haven't discovered it yet). If there was a Mits pj tech rep in the Chicago area that had the technical smarts to know what he was looking at, I would put both PJs in my car and go demonstrate the problem. I can hook up a dv cam to my VideoToaster and send you a live streaming web video feed of a portion of the screen as we try things.. (almost serious..)

What should we do now? Would it be possible for you to checkout the the WD2000 crosshatch pattern close-up at your facility to see if a known good unit is demonstrating any of this fringe/focus problem at all? I continue to assume that using the pj's internal test pattern is the best test since it should be a "perfect" source, and that being a single chip DLP machine, there should be none of these "convergence-like" irregularities...... Give me a call Tuesday..."

Pic of focusing on right edge of screen:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/focusedonrightscreenedge.jpg


Pic of focusing on center of screen:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/focusedonscreencenter.jpg

bizplayer,

Wow, better than the C3X is really saying something.

Is that au natural or with an external video/HTPC?

Thanks

bizplayer, Wow, better than the C3X is really saying something. Is that au natural or with an external video/HTPC? ThanksNo External Video Processor used. Connected via a Denon upscaling DVD player to 720p out and an HTPC outputting 1280x768 native. The C3X had awesome colors but also a very noisy picture while, disappointingly not so bright once calibrated. The WD2000U on the other hand matches its color, surpasses its grayscale and gamma detail and is much brighter while the image is totally artifact-free silky-smooth. No dithering, color ringing... nothing... just an impeccable picture of what looks like a $20.000 projector that actually was about $3500. Can't beat it.

Well,

At the risk of becoming "Mr Downer" of the WD2000 thread, thought I'd share today's headache.... Received my replacement WD2000 from Mits which sadly has a similar but worse problem than the first in the "optics anomally" arena. I'm pasting in below my email to my tech mgr contact at Mits.... it recaps the issue I'm having... You can see pics of the problem with the first pj a few pages back in this thread... very similar on the fringing front. If any of you WD2000 owners are bored, I'd greatly appreciate if you could punch up your internal cross-hatch test pattern (under the Installation tab of the user menu), take an up-close look at it and see if you are experiencing anything at all like what my pics below show.... Liebkid has a few WD2000s and has seen nothing of the sort.... I'm assuming the normal/expected display of such an internal pattern on a DLP machine should be virtually perfect (ie, the horizontal and vet lines are pure white, exactly 2 pixels wide, surrounded by pure black with little or no fringing of off-colors into adjacent pixels)... if that's not what you see, please let me know.. I'd love to find out that I'm doing something wrong, but darn'd if I can figure out what...

Anyway, on the bright side, when I manage to turn off my left-brain concerns, I'm still enjoying the many overall great WD2000 qualities that all of you have described.. just in search of getting the what the machine is fully capable of..

To Mits, today:

"Well John, this is unbelievable. I got the replacement WD2000 today, happily hooked it up, only to find it exhibits the same/slightly worse blue fringing as the first pj, and also has a fairly severe focus non-uniformity/degredation from right to left across the screen. Attached are two pics... one is with the right edge of screen focused (to show how bad it degrades to the left) and one with the center focused to show focus degredation to both the left and right. Fringing grows steadily worse from right to left regardless. Each pic shows a close-up of the left, center, and right portions of the screen with a single focus setting. So, I'm getting similar blue fringe, but much more variability across the screen, as well as much poorer focus uniformity than the first pj. Again, I used that internal crosshatch pattern for comparison and to rule out signal source issues... the problem is of course similar on actual material coming in on DVI 720P from my HD STB.

To recap my setup: out of the box, no changes, did "Reset All" multiple times, no keystone adjustments, with and without a DVI input attached, tried with and without vert and horiz lens shift, tried in and out of focus, turned off all surrounding equipment, tried dedicated power line to wall, tried off center firing just to see effect (tilted pj up, tilted pj down, angled to right, angled to left), & lastly, I made one adjustment to set overscan to 100% to eliminate any scaling artifacts (probably not relevant to the internal test pattern anyway)..... but nothing caused a change.. The pj is upright on a shelf, centered on screen horizontally and vertically. Checked distance from lens to left and right edges of screen --- 218 inches +/- 1/2 inch (to prove screen was square to pj).. I'm zoomed in heavily due to a 105 inch diag screen.. Noticed that full zoom-out reduced the proportion of the fringing somewhat (ie., DLP pixels get bigger, but optical crap stays about the same size, but still not good).

I don't know if I'm living in the twilight zone, if I'm just the unluckiest pj buyer of 2006, or if Mits is sending me units from a lot that just has bad optics... just can't believe it.. I continue to hear from all the other happy WD2000 buyers on the forums that see no such problem (or at least haven't discovered it yet). If there was a Mits pj tech rep in the Chicago area that had the technical smarts to know what he was looking at, I would put both PJs in my car and go demonstrate the problem. I can hook up a dv cam to my VideoToaster and send you a live streaming web video feed of a portion of the screen as we try things.. (almost serious..)

What should we do now? Would it be possible for you to checkout the the WD2000 crosshatch pattern close-up at your facility to see if a known good unit is demonstrating any of this fringe/focus problem at all? I continue to assume that using the pj's internal test pattern is the best test since it should be a "perfect" source, and that being a single chip DLP machine, there should be none of these "convergence-like" irregularities...... Give me a call Tuesday..."

Pic of focusing on right edge of screen:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/focusedonrightscreenedge.jpg


Pic of focusing on center of screen:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/focusedonscreencenter.jpgMy PJ is pixel and focus perfect across the board. I am a perfectionist in these matters and both the Ruby I have is off by one pixel and drives up a wall and the C3X had a very slight focus offset on the lower right corner. My Mitsu is pitch perfect corner-to-corner with a razor sharp focus. Did they actually send you a new PJ or your old one "repaired"? If Mitsu acknowledged the flaw in your first PJ, that's a clear indication they knew it was not the way it was supposed to be. Now that the second one is even worse I find it bizzare. There are always the unlucky ones when it comes to these things... I guess you're the one... I say, call them and request a new machine, properly inspected by someone at Mitsu before they ship it to you. I can guarantee you the WD2000U is capable of razor sharp focus and uniformity. It has great optics and I watch it every night on a large screen happier than with any other PJ I have ever previously owned (at any price). Judging by the two pictures you just posted, the optics on your WD2000U are way, way off or something is terribly misaligned withing the optical path/engine :(

Bizplayer,

Thanks for that info.. Yes, they sent me a new replacement unit.. actually have both right now.. The tech manager did acknowledge the first flaw based on similar pics I sent from the first pj.. so, shouldn't have a problem getting this resolved, other than convincing them that I don't have some sort of common set-up flaw (since the odds of two loser opticals in a row must be really really low).
I was thinking along the same lines as you, have them check the next one out before it's sent to me... Anyway, it's good to hear that near perfection can really be expected with this machine..

My PJ is pixel and focus perfect across the board. I am a perfectionist in these matters and both the Ruby I have is off by one pixel and drives up a wall and the C3X had a very slight focus offset on the lower right corner. My Mitsu is pitch perfect corner-to-corner with a razor sharp focus. Did they actually send you a new PJ or your old one "repaired"? If Mitsu acknowledged the flaw in your first PJ, that's a clear indication they knew it was not the way it was supposed to be. Now that the second one is even worse I find it bizzare. There are always the unlucky ones when it comes to these things... I guess you're the one... I say, call them and request a new machine, properly inspected by someone at Mitsu before they ship it to you. I can guarantee you the WD2000U is capable of razor sharp focus and uniformity. It has great optics and I watch it every night on a large screen happier than with any other PJ I have ever previously owned (at any price). Judging by the two pictures you just posted, the optics on your WD2000U are way, way off or something is terribly misaligned withing the optical path/engine :(


Recently, I followed a UPS delivery truck as it negotiated a speed bump and watched in amazement as the truck bounced over it. I doubt delicate equipment can survive such abuse. :eek:

Recently, I followed a UPS delivery truck as it negotiated a speed bump and watched in amazement as the truck bounced over it. I doubt delicate equipment can survive such abuse. :eek:I was thinking the same. I've seen these boxes being dropped and abused during transport beyond their physical limits. Sometimes I think FedEX and UPS are on a mission to destroy packages (and good luck trying to get compensated for any insurance claims... its never their fault). Its not that some machines like PJs with sensitive electronics and delicate optics sometimes arrive at the destination in less than perfect shape that astonishes me... its that some survive it all and arrive OK that actually surprises me. I've witnessed PUS guys literarily playing soccer with boxes that say "delicate" all over them after they were dug from a pile of 10 other boxes on top of it as if the "don't stack anything on top" meant, go ahead... crush me :(

I've talked to a couple of guys who've worked in a U*S warehouse where they load up the trucks and they admitted that it is a "game" to see how much abuse you can get away with. I was warned to NEVER ship anything around college hoop's final four. NEVER!

Does the WD2000U use sealed optics? Are dust blobs going to be a problem as with my Z2?

I've talked to a couple of guys who've worked in a U*S warehouse where they load up the trucks and they admitted that it is a "game" to see how much abuse you can get away with. I was warned to NEVER ship anything around college hoop's final four. NEVER!Nice! :(Does the WD2000U use sealed optics? Are dust blobs going to be a problem as with my Z2?Totally sealed optics. No chance of any dirt ever getting in. No filters to clean.

Could someone PM me if they've dealt with ProjectorSuperstore? They have a very good price on the Mits, but no return policy and they ship . . . UPS!

Still I'd like to know anyone's experience with this company, as I've never dealt with them, and only vaguely heard of them.

i concur on the noisy pic of the C3X, somehow. i thought it was pixelisation(mirrorisations :D ) but perhaps indeed it's the noise. mirroirs, video card noise, dithering noise ?
i think Mitsubishi is going to be a or THE major players in the dlp projectors. if they are reliable etc. (which isn the case of many brands...).
it's also good to see finally people going to big screens (4meters and above).

i concur on the noisy pic of the C3X, somehow. i thought it was pixelisation(mirrorisations :D ) but perhaps indeed it's the noise. mirroirs, video card noise, dithering noise ?
i think Mitsubishi is going to be a or THE major players in the dlp projectors. if they are reliable etc. (which isn the case of many brands...).
it's also good to see finally people going to big screens (4meters and above).I totally agree. If the WD2000U proves to be reliable in the long run, Mitsubishi is on the way to do right what just about everyone else in the industry has been missing points continuously. And, with their aggressive pricing, hopefully it will push the market into a whole new price/performance ball game. The WD2000U proves without excuses and once and for all that, allied to BrilliantColor Tech and new hardware/software light engine/optics designs, 3-chip performance can now be achieved and surpassed with a single-chip... (of course, minus RBEs for those that are very particular about it... not me fortunately). If Mitsu does a 1080p version of this machine within a year, no one will stop them and there will be a lot of manufacturers either going out of business or seriously having to reconsider their price/performance offerings and the features/value of their products. $10K? 15K? 20K and more for a video projectors with less specs and performance than the WD2000U?... Oh, no, those days are over. Liebkid's enthusiasm when he first saw this PJ and started this thread was right on the money. The WD2000U stands alone as a turning point in the industry where features don't have to be sacrificed for world-class performance that, from a financial standpoint to us the buyers, is great news. What? Panny's 7000U for $25K, C3X's for $15K... even Sanyo's PLV-80/70, Panny 900...etc... no one has a chance. The WD2000U has put everyone out of the race, performance wise and price-wise... there is really nothing else out there to compete it with or to sensibly choose. I expect some reviewers to trash this machine or hearing about naggers that will find flaws where there aren't. I know what this machine can do and, it is enlightening. Specs don't matter... I have much, much better gamma ramp (absolutely flawless for the first time on a DLP PJ) than on my Ruby and ex-C3X and, while the first claims a CR of 15.000:1 and the other of 6500:1, the modest (but true) claims of 2000:1 on the WD2000U match or largely surpass the overblown specs of the other guys. My C3X is history and my Ruby on its way out. It is unwatchable... pathetically dim as a candle, nor nearly as sharp and misconverged no matter what... the WD2000U is the PJ I measure everyone else against now, single, 3 chippers and 1080Ps... it doesn't need excuses nor forgiving... its just that good, and then, more... and for less than just about everything else out there... this is so amazing that we are even in the wrong thread!... street prices on this machine are bellow the $3500 mark, not above as per this thread... sensational, that's all I can say.

I look forward in reading that RinkerD has gotten a good working unit back from Mitsubishi soon!!! :)

[QUOTE=bizplayer]!... street prices on this machine are bellow the $3500 mark, QUOTE]

I have looked through some of the thread (not all 22 pages) for buting options, but I need some help. Where can I find it around $3500?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=bizplayer]!... street prices on this machine are bellow the $3500 mark, QUOTE]I have looked through some of the thread (not all 22 pages) for buting options, but I need some help. Where can I find it around $3500?Thanks.David, let's not talk about prices here. I'll PM you some info later on today.

Anybody with the WD2000U have the Toshiba HD-A1 and having any HDMI to DVI problems such as hdmi errors, hdcp handshaking, color space issues, etc?

Thanks in advance.

Anybody with the WD2000U have the Toshiba HD-A1 and having any HDMI to DVI problems such as hdmi errors, hdcp handshaking, color space issues, etc? Thanks in advance.I have the Toshiba HD-A1 and works flawlessly with the WD2000U. I bought a Monster Cable HDMI to DVI adapter and have no issues of any kind... aside from the fact that (great 1080i picture quality aside of course) the HD-A1 positively sucks in every conceivable way, but... that's another story :)

bizplayer,

"I have much, much better gamma ramp (absolutely flawless for the first time on a DLP PJ) than on my Ruby and ex-C3X..."

You've mentioned this a couple of times; is that the same as grayscale tracking?

Are your comments based on what you see and/or have measured? Is it that way with relatively minor user-level adjustments, are did it require instruments/calibration?

Thanks

Just received my projector. The box says WD2000, manual says WD2000, model number on the projector says WD2000... what's up with the "U"?

I think the US version is called WD2000 and Asia/Europe is WD2000U. I'm only guessing..so correct me if I'm wrong..

I don't know, I don't see rainbows with a 1x color wheel. :)
If you are sensitive or worried, you must see the projector in action before you buy. Rumor is Mitsubishi's coming out with a 1080 lcd PJ soon, but only 1000 lumens I believe.

I absolutely concur with view first before buying/make your own decision, but I haven't found these 2 yet in the Fuquay/Raleigh area yet ( I have some custom installer numbers but haven't called - many times these guys don't have good demo rooms or even inventory to view). That said, I've been a member here a long time and have found, in general, a lot of valuable info from member opinions especially from a number of those I trust here.

I'm just seeking out info that might come from knowedgable users that have seen both and/or come from LCD land and/or are RBE sensitive and/or etc.... Consider yourself blessed not to see rainbows!

I'm keeping an eye on the potential Mits5000 1080p LCD PJ and maybe Panny 1100, etc. However, I'm tired of panel convergence issues and lack of brightness and low ANSI contrast and the LCD units I've owned and seen still have this graininess too them that now bugs me..... Maybe 1080p with Cin2fine will cure all!

Thanks for the inputs.
dagger

bizplayer, "I have much, much better gamma ramp (absolutely flawless for the first time on a DLP PJ) than on my Ruby and ex-C3X..." You've mentioned this a couple of times; is that the same as grayscale tracking?To keep it simple, let's say, yes.Are your comments based on what you see and/or have measured? Is it that way with relatively minor user-level adjustments, are did it require instruments/calibration?ThanksMy impressions are based on what I see and quickly measured, with relatively minor user-level adjustments, and only, at the user menu. I did purchase the service menu CD but I am so pleased with the picture as it is I have not yet fiddled with it, to be quite honest.

Just received my projector. The box says WD2000, manual says WD2000, model number on the projector says WD2000... what's up with the "U"?Don't worry. Same thing. Mine is also a WD2000, not U.

Dagger - I'll be interested to see what you come up with since we got our HS10's around the same time. Since the polarizers are dying on my HS10, I'm tempted just to jump on the Mits now - but I share your concern with rainbows/DLP headaches. I've read more than once around here than taking down the brightness on DLP's reduces the effect so I'd definitely like to know more about rainbows on this light cannon from those who know.

Also, there's this nagging feeling that after I'm using an HD-DVD player, Xbox 360, HD DVR, etc, that I'll feel like I screwed the pooch by not getting a native 1080 box. Maybe contrast, brightness, color etc will more than make up for it, but I wonder. Even the slightly higher 1366X768 resolution of the HS10 I think makes for better HD than the standard 720P machines. I guess I'll just have to watch movies tinted yellow until after CEDIA and those hi rez sub $4K PJ's start rolling out. :rolleyes:

...Even the slightly higher 1366X768 resolution of the HS10 I think makes for better HD than the standard 720P machines...Not so... the Panasonic 7000U is a 3 chip 1366X768 DLP and looks not nearly as sharp as the WD2000U, the Sanyo PLV-80/70 is also 1366X768 (LCD) and looks also not nearly as sharp as the WD2000U, the Fujitsu LPF-711 is 1920x1080 (LCD) and doesn't come anywhere close to sharpness of the Mitsubishi, and the Sony Ruby is also 1920x1080 and looks soft and fuzzy compared to the WD2000U. I speak from experience as I have owned all the PJs above (except the PLV-80... I had the 70). Beyond the perception distance of SDE (about 10 to 13 feet), none of the PJ's above comes close to the raw cut-throat sharpness of the Mitsubishi when watching 1080i material either from D-VHS, Dish-HD or HD-DVD.

...the bulb just blew. I'd check to see how many hours were on the unit...but the bulb just blew. And by "blow" I mean a very energetic pop on startup.

:(

Not so... the Panasonic 7000U is a 3 chip 1366X768 DLP and looks not nearly as sharp as the WD2000U, the Sanyo PLV-80/70 is also 1366X768 (LCD) and looks also not nearly as sharp as the WD2000U, the Fujitsu LPF-711 is 1920x1080 (LCD) and doesn't come anywhere close to sharpness of the Mitsubishi, and the Sony Ruby is also 1920x1080 and looks soft and fuzzy compared to the WD2000U. I speak from experience as I have owned all the PJs above (except the PLV-80... I had the 70). Beyond the perception distance of SDE (about 10 to 13 feet), none of the PJ's above comes close to the raw cut-throat sharpness of the Mitsubishi when watching 1080i material either from D-VHS, Dish-HD or HD-DVD.

That's very impressive! Still in my mind there's a difference between sharpness and resolution. To me what you get with higher resolution has more to do with realism, depth, transients and detail. The full effect of this is the wow factor when you watch an IMAX film (original format, not conversion).

I'm not really that into a super sharp picture, I actually prefer the smoother filmlike look - but detail I'll take all I can get. Your experience obviously trumps mine by a long shot, so I'm very intrigued that you can somehow observe a greater sense of detail from a lower resolution machine.

...the bulb just blew. I'd check to see how many hours were on the unit...but the bulb just blew. And by "blow" I mean a very energetic pop on startup.

Bummer. BTW, does anyone know what the bulb replacement cost is for this pj?

bizplayer,

"My impressions are based on what I see and quickly measured, with relatively minor user-level adjustments, and only, at the user menu. I did purchase the service menu CD but I am so pleased with the picture as it is I have not yet fiddled with it, to be quite honest. "

Thanks, good to hear.

I'd sure like to see what Greg Rogers or Darin would have to say about this pj.

HTCrazy,

"I'm very intrigued that you can somehow observe a greater sense of detail from a lower resolution machine. "

Careful; pereived sharpness is not necessarily the same as resolvable detail.

It's not clear that the excellent optics and perfect convergence aren't giving more of the former via perfectly defined pixels.

Bummer. BTW, does anyone know what the bulb replacement cost is for this pj?

Retail is about $500, but doing a Google search I have found them for more than 20% off.

I'm feeding my WD2000U from a Pioneer DV-588A by way of component cables. Anyone have any experience comparing this method with the DVI port, should I expect much improvement in PQ? The DV-588A doesn't have a DVI port so I would have to consider the DV-59AVi.

...the bulb just blew. I'd check to see how many hours were on the unit...but the bulb just blew. And by "blow" I mean a very energetic pop on startup :(Call Mitsubishi. They should send you a replacement bulb at no charge. Let's see how well they do on this one. Keep us posted!

higher resolution in the pj yields less aliasing noise thus revealing details.
cf Bjoern Roy's postson the topic some years ago.
DLP ultra sharpness (if the optics are on par) + lack of convergence issue create a visual sharpness indeed. pitch perfect often. srxd-dila will alwas be a tad softer compared to 1080p DLP and some 720p DLP.
so far what i and many have seen is that the CONTENT plays a BIGGER role than the display. (720p to 1080p). quality HD signals have a dramatic impact in projection compared to dvd vs going from 720p to 1080p display, at "normal" viewing distances (say 4meters from 3meter screen for instance). 1080p display allows to closer sitting (but how close can we sit ? what about sound ?? bass ? surrounds ?) and more argentic image, true or bigger size but that costs enormously to access a 1080pj with lumens !! it's for the most unaffordable.
So imho this Mitsu gives the punch of 3DLP bright machines that are still at $15-25,000, for 1/3-1/6th the price. havent seen it yet though.
you can imho illuminate a 4-5meters scope screen with this machine and an ISCO and go well beyond the poor 13 cinema FTL.

Do you fellas know if the Chief RPA Universal mount will work with this projector ??

For those that have this PJ, is there any saturation and hue control over DVI? I want to use DVI for my Tosh HD DVD player and would like to be able to increase color saturation over DVI.

For those that have this PJ, is there any saturation and hue control over DVI?...Yes. If you are in cutom mode in the user menu you can adjust color saturation, gamma, BrilliantColor's levels as well as basic RGB color gains for each channel for basic grey scale calibration,

Ahro,

I gather from the prior posts below from vfrjim & liebkid (back on page 15) you can also make many other adjustments via the service menu as described:

.........."He also told me that there is a Service CD that you can order (part # S/M WD2000 ) and with that and a laptop, you can adjust the projector via the Serial port. He (Harry) also told me that it does not VOID the warranty UNLESS you adjust a setting to an extreme that causes DAMAGE to the projector they also will not fix any settings you mess with (and he told me that they KNOW what the original settings are) if you screw up how the projector functions. He told me that you can order the CD from mits parts(888-307-8404) and I do not know the price of the CD. I personally will be ordering my Projector tommorrow"

..........."Oh and I got a couple day ago the Service Menu CD... its all there... gamma, color correction, gains, biases...calibration to the exhaustion... the works... and ...forget about getting an external video processor. Just get the Service Menu CD, connect it to your PC and calibrate the PJ to spec like a Pro... and there are a gazillion tricks you can play with on the service menu with the BrilliantColor feature to make it really come to life and work for verey possible installation and calibration scenario"

Thanks all :) :)

Petrucci,

Not sure about the chief universal mount, but here is a quote from Eric at projector people about the 145..

"I have confirmed with Chief that the RPA-145 mount will work with this projector."

I am using the Vantage Point CINEMAGEAR CGUPM06-S and it works fine, only 3 connection points but there is no problems.

So is everyone out there using this model with an external scaler ?? or just sending 720p with the overscan adjustment ?

Ahro,

I gather from the prior posts below from vfrjim & liebkid (back on page 15) you can also make many other adjustments via the service menu as described:

.........."He also told me that there is a Service CD that you can order (part # S/M WD2000 ) and with that and a laptop, you can adjust the projector via the Serial port. He (Harry) also told me that it does not VOID the warranty UNLESS you adjust a setting to an extreme that causes DAMAGE to the projector they also will not fix any settings you mess with (and he told me that they KNOW what the original settings are) if you screw up how the projector functions. He told me that you can order the CD from mits parts(888-307-8404) and I do not know the price of the CD. I personally will be ordering my Projector tommorrow"

..........."Oh and I got a couple day ago the Service Menu CD... its all there... gamma, color correction, gains, biases...calibration to the exhaustion... the works... and ...forget about getting an external video processor. Just get the Service Menu CD, connect it to your PC and calibrate the PJ to spec like a Pro... and there are a gazillion tricks you can play with on the service menu with the BrilliantColor feature to make it really come to life and work for verey possible installation and calibration scenario"



Mitsubishi gave me the run around the first time I tried to order the service CD I may try again today. I wonder if anybody has any good tips for tracking this CD down ? Thanks.

I just finished wiring HDMI to the projector and installing a shelf for it. I'll report back in a few hours with my impressions of the WD2000U!

I pulled the trigger today. I'd like to thank Liebkid for all his help. Eventually, I'll get the short throw lens, but it's close to another 2K, more than half what I paid for the PJ.

I just finished wiring HDMI to the projector and installing a shelf for it. I'll report back in a few hours with my impressions of the WD2000U!We all look forward in hearing your take on it!!!I pulled the trigger today. I'd like to thank Liebkid for all his help. Eventually, I'll get the short throw lens, but it's close to another 2K, more than half what I paid for the PJ.Good show! You can get a Navitar ScreenStar wide-angle projection adapter lens for about 1/2 the price of the Mitsu's lens when time comes with superb optics quality comparable to the Mitsu's wide-angle lens :)

Okay, I've got the projector all set up and ready to go. The problem right now is I don't have my blackout curtains set up yet (I'm still not sure why I decided to do those *after* getting everything else in place) and my room isn't painted (off-white right now). I'm leaving tomorrow for California, and I won't be back until next Sunday, so I'll have the curtains and paint up soon after that.

This is also my first projector, and I've only ever seen a handful. I've seen the Ruby, a Yamaha from 2005 and the Panny 900. Unfortunately, in all three situations they were set up poorly, so it isn't a fair comparison. The Ruby wasn't even lined up with the screen!

Now, on to the projector. I'm using a 45x105" Da-lite Hi-Contrast Cinema Vision screen, 0.8 gain. DVD player is a Yamaha DVD-S2500 going through a Yamaha RX-v2600 receiver, all HDMI connections. The DVD player is outputting 720p and the Mits is set to 100% overscan. I have not done any adjustments to the picture other than that.

It easily blows all those (poorly demonstrated) pjs out of the water.

Unfortunately, my unit has the same purple fringe problem that another member here had. I'm going to talk to my installer first, and if he can't do anything I'll call Mits.

The good news is I have yet to notice it on anything but the internet cross hatch pattern. I did see a little of it on the "Chicago - 2035" text in the intro to I, Robot.

The other bad news is that I can see slight (very slight) rainbows when I move my eyes across the screen quickly. Other than that I never see them.

If I can get the purple fringe problem fixed, I'll be in front projection bliss. This projector is RAZOR SHARP. I could count the hairs on Aragorn's beard from 12 feet away. SDE is also not a problem. 16:9 material is 80" wide, FWIW.

Since I still have a lot of light in my room, I'm going to hold off on doing a longer writeup until after sunset. I also need to figure out how to secure it better, the subwoofer was causing the picture to bounce around.

Whew !!! What next ?
There really is no Superman and the Easter Bunny is just a plain old ordinary rabbit.

Whew !!! What next ?
There really is no Superman and the Easter Bunny is just a plain old ordinary rabbit.
???????????

???????????

That's a bunch of question marks :)

Jimmy, if you mean to say that I don't think this projector is anything special, you've got it wrong. This thing is awesome. In another hour it should be dark enough for me to do some watching and I'll report back then.

Well, it's annoying when you don't explain what you mean.

Well, it's annoying when you don't explain what you mean.Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

I was refering to JimmyR. You were perfectly clear. I had the same reaction to his cryptic post that you did. Sorry for the misunderstanding

Cubedude,

Does your purple flaring look anything like this? I've walked thru everything I've tried with Mits & they're convinced that I've done everything possible to prove it's not an operator or setup issue, but they are baffled and claim they never seen it before.. I will be sending this one back for them to look at in engineering. The second pj had the same problem, only worse.. If your test pattern looks like this, would you mind sharing your serial number? I've been speaking with John Malconian, their eng'g mgr in CA. If you call, I'd suggest talking to him (949-465-6438)... if our problems are identical, he'll be fascinated to learn there are two of us.. If you can, take a pic like this and share it with him.. it's made all the difference in working with him so far, & he's been very good to work with.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i183/rinkerd/mits-leftscreeninternaltestpattern-.jpg

its 82mm


Did you install a filter on yours? Does it thread or just push on?

Does this projector have the necessary aspect ratio controls to do constant height, or is an outboard scaler needed?

I've walked thru everything I've tried with Mits & they're convinced that I've done everything possible to prove it's not an operator or setup issue, but they are baffled and claim they never seen it before..

Rinker, this definitely looks like an alignment problem with the optics and not something that you are doing wrong. Now that cubedude is reporting the same problem, I wonder if there is a bad batch of these pj's out there.

Yes, that's almost exactly what mine looks like, except it's a bit more purple. It's dark enough now, so I'm going to watch Batman Begins, lots of dark scenes to test the black levels, and once I'm done I'll take a picture of the test pattern

But, like I mentioned a few posts up, I won't be able to do anything for about a week, since I'll be out of town. As soon as I get back I'm going to call Mits. I decided I'd call them directly, rather than go through my installer.

(3 hours later...)

I just finished watching a movie. This projector is amazing. I used Batman Begins because it has both very bright scenes (the mountains at the beginning) and very dark scenes (the rest of the film). This projector handled all of it VERY well, and this is without any adjustments other than the overscan to sharpen the picture.

Speaking of sharpness, it is RAZOR SHARP, just like liebkid and a few others have said.

I didn't notice the purple fringing at all during the film, and I was trying to see it. I don't have any test disks, but when I get back I'll hook up my computer and use it to run a few test patterns. I did try to take a screenshot of the cross hatch, but I don't have a very steady hand or a tripod, so it's a little blurry. Once again, when I get back I'll take a better shot.

http://static.flickr.com/57/189212718_ad011c0c26_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryan_tanner/189212718/)

I know I said I'd write up a better mini-review, but I need to go to sleep to catch my flight tomorrow.

Sorry folks, as everyone knows I voluntarily stepped out of this thread to become a "spectator" only, but, I'd like to make a remark regarding these last reports of problems with the WD2000U. I have examined my test patterns closely on the 3 WD2000Us that I have (on very large 200" screens) and none of them show even the slightest hint of the color fringe problem reported here. The optics are just razor-sharp dead-on. There must be a bad batch of these PJs out there and if anyone from Mitsubishi is taking note of this forum, serial numbers should be gathered by those reporting this problem and sent to them for batch evaluation and selection. Mitsubishi needs to address the issue and offer an exchange on these affected with machines showing this problem with new ones in proper optical condition that have been carefully and responsibly inspected by them prior to shipment. One WD2000U user only initially, RinkerD, showing this problem, could simply have been a bad one-off unit. However now, more people reporting the same issue with their machines, takes the matter to at best, a bad batch that needs to be identified and taken care of by the manufacturer, before an awesome product becomes a stain in a manufacturer's reputation. Everyone in this thread should inspect their PJs closely and act strongly with Mitsubishi to have this problem tackled before more units largely ship like this.

My two cents on the matter :cool:

RinkerD and cubedude, I have a similar condition with mine, with both blue and red fringing which varies across the screen from nothing to about 1 pixel width at max zoom. At min zoom it is much less and the fringing is sort of an aqua color. I don't know much about optics so I was attributing this to chromatic abberations. This is not noticeable on video material, only when looking at the cross hatch pattern up close. It's amazing how much this looks like misconvergence on a crt.

Liebkid, you have absolutely no color fringing on 3 pj's? Even at max zoom?

...Liebkid, you have absolutely no color fringing on 3 pj's? Even at max zoom?Zero, when perfectly in focus.

I wonder how much part of the problem here is simply not proper focus. Not so much from RinkerD's stills but, looking attentively at cubedude's screen shots there is a clear blue fringe up and left while there is a green/purple fringe down side and right. Sorry but that still was taken with the projector NOT properly focused. If I slight defocus mine, I get something similar. Once in focus, it is dead on, displaying the sharpest image I have ever seen from a DLP projector, by far.

It is not easy to precisely focus the WD2000U. I suggest to use the 1280x768 focusing screen I've posted for download earlier (and that is below once again) and feed it full screen from an HTPC. Every square will pixel patch 4 pixels on the DMD across the screen. You can dead-on check focus linearity across the whole screen with this test. While holding the remote, literally get yourself a couple inches away from the screen and start precisely focusing the PJ back and fourth on the remote using small step/ single-clicks. You will get it just right if you are patient and want it perfect. Most importantly, let the PJ heat for at least a good 10 minutes to achieve full warm operating temperature. If you focus the PJ immediately at start-up, by the time its warm, focus may be slightly off again. This happens with positively every projector (even old CRT's convergence and focus is not the same when warm or cold).

On a last note and as a great thing about the WD2000U, once you get it in exact focus (under operating warm conditions) you will not need to touch it again any time soon. I have done dozens of multiple turning ON/OFF sessions after setting focus right and have never needed to re-focus again, meaning, there is minimal to no internal thermal variations under continuous interrupted and uninterrupted use. I have now 590 hors on the bulb on my main WD2000U at home. Light output is as strong as day one! Impressive :)

Here's the file again below. Right-click on it and do "Save Picture as..." to you desktop, then use a graphics viwer to display it full screen
(by full screen I mean FULL SCREEN, no... application with menus or tool bars on top eating a portion of the picture!!! The world's best
and most resourceful-friendly media viewer for PC that I use and suggest everyone does is IrfanView that you can get here (http://www.irfanview.com)).

http://216.127.51.88/_downloads/1280x768_focus.gif

Have any of you compared the WD2000 to the Samsung 710? I previously was going to go with the Samsung, but this projector seems like it might be a fantastic alternative. I have light issues that I'm dealing with and I gather that this projector is better in that type of situation. I have only read a few pages back so I apologize if this has already been answered.

timf98 and cubedude,

If you'd like to give your serial numbers, I'll pass them along to my eng'g mgr contact at Mits who is planning to personally evaluate one of my two pjs for the flaring problem. This may help with identifying a pattern or lot problem in their production / QC processes. My SNs are 0001118 and 0001360, & both have similar issues as posted previously.

my "current" serial number is (last 4 digits) is 1132 and has the focusing issue as shown here: http://members.cox.net/vfrjim/DSCF0452.JPG , my replacement(for my blob issue) will arrive on monday and will report back then.

Hey guys, I am wondering did any of you guys notice any anomalies in the viewing material as well as the cross hatch pattern ? I remember viewing the cross hatch pattern as a check, but I did not notice the flaring. I will do another check this weekend and see if there is anything apparent with my unit as well. I really hope this is somewhat isolated.

Fedex sucks! My PJ was supposed to be here by 10:30 Eastern time and it's stuck across the river. Been going back and forth with supervisors. Exactly what I wanted to avoid. My plan was to work on the PJ this weekend. Beware of Fedex!

Zero, when perfectly in focus.

I wonder how much part of the problem here is simply not proper focus. Not so much from RinkerD's stills but, looking attentively at cubedude's screen shots there is a clear blue fringe up and left while there is a green/purple fringe down side and right. Sorry but that still was taken with the projector NOT properly focused. If I slight defocus mine, I get something similar. Once in focus, it is dead on, displaying the sharpest image I have ever seen from a DLP projector, by far.

It is not easy to precisely focus the WD2000U. I suggest to use the 1280x768 focusing screen I've posted for download earlier (and that is below once again) and feed it full screen from an HTPC. Every square will pixel patch 4 pixels on the DMD across the screen. You can dead-on check focus linearity across the whole screen with this test. While holding the remote, literally get yourself a couple inches away from the screen and start precisely focusing the PJ back and fourth on the remote using small step/ single-clicks. You will get it just right if you are patient and want it perfect. Most importantly, let the PJ heat for at least a good 10 minutes to achieve full warm operating temperature. If you focus the PJ immediately at start-up, by the time its warm, focus may be slightly off again. This happens with positively every projector (even old CRT's convergence and focus is not the same when warm or cold).

On a last note and as a great thing about the WD2000U, once you get it in exact focus (under operating warm conditions) you will not need to touch it again any time soon. I have done dozens of multiple turning ON/OFF sessions after setting focus right and have never needed to re-focus again, meaning, there is minimal to no internal thermal variations under continuous interrupted and uninterrupted use. I have now 590 hors on the bulb on my main WD2000U at home. Light output is as strong as day one! Impressive :)


This may sound weird but I've heard of some videophiles using low powered binoculars to focus their projectors from their normal viewing position.

This may sound weird but I've heard of some videophiles using low powered binoculars to focus their projectors from their normal viewing position.Not weird at all. it is a very effective and precise way to focus a PJ specially if seated far away from the screen.

spete,

Do a search of this thread for Samsung or 710, you should find a few posts.

Searching for "710", there are no comparisons; instead, there are people who either were asking for a comparison or were waiting for the 710 but bought the 2000 instead.

This may sound weird but I've heard of some videophiles using low powered binoculars to focus their projectors from their normal viewing position.


I used to use a low powered set of binoculars to perform my convergence on my old CRT rear projection set...Worked great.

Okay, I received my PJ and played around with it a bit. I suppose some people are not going to like what follows:

I'm a bit disappointed. Frankly, it's not that sharper than my trusty Sharp XR-10X 4:3, and yes, I have overscan set to 100.

No control of color or hue over DVI! I bought this so that I would have this control with my Tosh HD DVD player. I was told that it did have saturation over DVI, but that function (even in the user menu) is not highlighted.

I can't force video levels, as opposed to PC levels over DVI.

It's not that bright, and I'm only using a 90 inch diagonal.

On the crosshatch I'm getting what appears to be something similar to misconvergence that others have reported, although I must say it doesn't bother me that much -- but wonder if it would be sharper if the optics were perfect.

All and all, and I haven't tinkered with it for hours, it's just a small incremental step above my Sharp, which costs less than 1K.

I will strap myself in and wait for the flames :)

ahro,

Thanks for your input. I don't think you should get flamed in anyway for stating your opinion. You are not the only one on this thread that has not just been knocked off their chair.

I am taken back by your input that it is not that bright on a relatively small 90" screen. What is the lumens rating on the Sharp XR-10X? Maybe you are used to a brighter screen....or maybe you have a bad bulb or something...

Also it has been stated on this thread many times that you need to get the service CD to calibrate this properly with DVI so I would encourage you to at least attempt to get this and make the needed adjustments and then re-evaluate the projector.

But thank you again for your feedback and report back (positive, negative, or neutral) if you are able to make any further adjustments. I am sorry that you don't seem to be very satisfied with your new investment.

ahro,

Thanks for your input. I don't think you should get flamed in anyway for stating your opinion. You are not the only one on this thread that has not just been knocked off their chair.

I am taken back by your input that it is not that bright on a relatively small 90" screen. What is the lumens rating on the Sharp XR-10X? Maybe you are used to a brighter screen....or maybe you have a bad bulb or something...

Also it has been stated on this thread many times that you need to get the service CD to calibrate this properly with DVI so I would encourage you to at least attempt to get this and make the needed adjustments and then re-evaluate the projector.

But thank you again for your feedback and report back (positive, negative, or neutral) if you are able to make any further adjustments. I am sorry that you don't seem to be very satisfied with your new investment.

The Sharp is 2000 lumens and 2000:1 CR. I'm not saying the Mits is not bright, it is, plus I have it on low lamp, iut's just not a big jump from the Sharp. I was expecting a bit more. I had the EP910 for a while, and that was amazingly bright, so I suppose I'm judging by that. I'm sure I can get the Mits much brighter if I crank it up and go on full lamp mode.

What do you think of this PJ from 21 ft back (rear wall) with an anamorphic lense?

...it's not that sharper than my trusty Sharp XR-10X 4:3...?!?!?! Impossible! You're doing something wrong, or, just, something is seriously wrong with the PJ....It's not that bright, and I'm only using a 90 inch diagonal...?!?!?! Impossible! You're doing something wrong, or, just, something is seriously wrong with the PJ.... it's just a small incremental step above my Sharp, which costs less than 1K...?!?!?! Impossible! You're doing something wrong, or, just, something is seriously wrong with the PJ.

What do you think of this PJ from 21 ft back (rear wall) with an anamorphic lense?

My estimate would be at least 150+ inches diagonal screen is needed for 235:1, unless you use a long throw lens..

Yes. If you are in custom mode in the user menu you can adjust color saturation, gamma, BrilliantColor's levels as well as basic RGB color gains for each channel for basic grey scale calibration,

I cant find "custom" mode, I only see user mode and if I use DVI all color adjustments are disabled..Am I missing something? Right now I use the nvidia driver to adjust colors and calibrated using DVE

Hey guys, I am wondering did any of you guys notice any anomalies in the viewing material as well as the cross hatch pattern ? I remember viewing the cross hatch pattern as a check, but I did not notice the flaring. I will do another check this weekend and see if there is anything apparent with my unit as well. I really hope this is somewhat isolated.


12GAGE,

If you go back and look at my post on July 4, there are links to screenshots that show how my blue flaring issue affects both the crosshatch and HD material..
The 3rd, 4th and 5th pics are close-ups of the same flaring affecting the top edges of horizontal light to dark edges in scenes from HDNET, 720P from satellite on DVI.

I did look at my crosshatch pattern today and I dont see that bright blue flare, did you max out the brightness on yours just to see it?

Liebkid, thank you for posting that pattern. As soon as I get home I'll hook up my laptop via DVI to the Mits and focus it. I didn't focus it myself, my installer did, and they might not have done it perfectly, so it is quite possible that's what's causing the fringing. I tried to focus it myself, but I couldn't seem to get the cross hatch pattern to stay on when I adjusted the focus, it would always switch back to the DVI input. Is there a way around that?

I'll also be placing an order for an Avia DVD as soon as I get back. Also, once I get my room painted and the blackout curtains up, I plan on having an ISF calibrator come out to calibrate it, but I should be able to focus it using Liebkid's test pattern.

The reason my screenshot is so blurry is because of my shaky hand. I can't even hold a pencil still. I also used my Canon Powershot S50 for that shot. Once I get back, I'll get out my Digital Rebel XT and a stool or ladder to place the camera on to get a good shot. That green fringe you mentioned about my screenshot was caused by my camera, not the projector.

(Side question: does anyone know how I can display that image full-screen using a Mac?)

I cant find "custom" mode, I only see user mode and if I use DVI all color adjustments are disabled..Am I missing something? Right now I use the nvidia driver to adjust colors and calibrated using DVE


I'm with you. Where is custom user mode?

I did look at my crosshatch pattern today and I dont see that bright blue flare, did you max out the brightness on yours just to see it?

retret,

No, not in my case. My screenshots were done after "reset all" to factory settings. Also set overscan to 100% (off) to see if the scaling had any affect, but it did not.

<<Originally Posted by bizplayer
Yes. If you are in custom mode in the user menu you can adjust color saturation, gamma, BrilliantColor's levels as well as basic RGB color gains for each channel for basic grey scale calibration,>>

I see, you're talking about 'user' mode in the 4 menu categories. BUT YOU CAN'T over do most of these over DVI. And interesting that you didn't mention Hue, which seems to be elusive even from component.

I wonder how much part of the problem here is simply not proper focus. Not so much from RinkerD's stills but, looking attentively at cubedude's screen shots there is a clear blue fringe up and left while there is a green/purple fringe down side and right. Sorry but that still was taken with the projector NOT properly focused. If I slight defocus mine, I get something similar. Once in focus, it is dead on, displaying the sharpest image I have ever seen from a DLP projector, by far.

No, my focus is adjusted as best as can be, just can't get a perfect color alignment. It's better if I zoom out, but still not perfect. I don't know if it's reasonable to expect perfection, but you have 3 out of 3 perfect. Guess I'll have to call Mitsubishi.

BTW, how do find the lamp hours display?

If I have the time I will take a pic of the crosshatch so we can compare it with RinkerD, anyone who is concern about this issue should also post so we can compare...

My Canon SX50 will flare like that if not *perfectly* focussed.

I use a pair of binoculars to look at the screen while finely adjusting the focus.

But you have powered focus right? Perhaps the stepper is too coarse? Can you override the powered focus and do manually? Manually tuning it may give you the precision you need.

Ken

Ahro, could you elaborate more on your comparison with the xr-x10 with color, contrast etc. Your post is dissapointing particularly when the comparison is with such a cheap projector. Perhaps the differences are much more noticeable with a bigger screen, 90inch may not be showing the full potential of the WD2000 and/or hiding the flaws of the xr-x10. Thanks.

Well, the Mits has lots more bells and whistles, and it's a good PJ, but my Sharp is almost as sharp and almost as bright. Perhaps I'm not getting the best out of the Mits because of my throw. To me the Mits is an incremental improvement over the Sharp, but I've self-calibrated it and maybe I'm missing something.

In any case, I've decided to sell the Mits, and because my retailer has no return policy, I'll have to sell it privately, i guess at a bit of a loss. if there's any interest, please PM me.

Ahro,

Please post your comparison between the 2000 and the Canon EP910.
I would think the 910 would have a better (darker) black level, since it is a dark chip 3.
Why did you not keep it?

Also how did the 910 compare to your Sharp XR-10X?

Thank you.

Ahro,

Please post your comparison between the 2000 and the Canon EP910.
I would think the 910 would have a better (darker) black level, since it is a dark chip 3.
Why did you not keep it?

Also how did the 910 compare to your Sharp XR-10X?

Thank you.

The 910 is 4:3, and I have a short throw. Didn't quite fit even though I did the measurements. Well, the 910 is pretty Sharp and it would be pushing it to compare to the Sharp. The Sharp is for someone who likes 4:3 material and can deal with the XGA resoultion, which to me looks pretty good. I'm just trying to find a PJ that will work well with my Tosh HD DVD, which I love.

"Canon EP910"

Do you mean Optoma EP910?

"Canon EP910"

Do you mean Optoma EP910?

I assume he meant Optoma - anyway that's what i was answering about. I've had some inquires about my Mits WD2000, but as of now it's still available. Hope i'm not breaking any rules by saying that.

In any case, I've decided to sell the Mits, and because my retailer has no return policy, I'll have to sell it privately, i guess at a bit of a loss. if there's any interest, please PM me.

Good luck with the "bit of a loss" part. Projectors are like cars, once you drive them off the lot they depreciate by at least 25%.

Petrucci,

Not sure about the chief universal mount, but here is a quote from Eric at projector people about the 145..

"I have confirmed with Chief that the RPA-145 mount will work with this projector."

I'm using the Chief universal mount. Works fine.

...the bulb just blew. I'd check to see how many hours were on the unit...but the bulb just blew. And by "blow" I mean a very energetic pop on startup.

:(

Mits tech support FTW!

I emailed them, within minutes I had a reply with the fax form. I sent it on Wednesday and had a new bulb waiting for me on Friday with an included paid return sticker for the failed unit. Online in time for the SG1 premier.

I have never had a tech support experience that went this smoothly.

-Ian

You'll have a razor-sharp perfect image on screen. Set the machine along the values already posted on this thread and make sure overscan is set to 100%. That's it to make you one very happy man :)

I think the problem he had (as he's returing the unit it seems) is that none of his devices can output at the Mits native resolution.

Even then my Moto cable box looks f*(#ing amazing on this thing over YPbPr at 720p. I actually increased overscan to get rid of some VBI goobers that leaked in from our local ABC affilates SD upconverts. It's all just stunning.

I've read ahros other posts and I think he might have had his expectations a bit too high based on our enthusiasm for the projector. :-)

Mits tech support FTW!

I emailed them, within minutes I had a reply with the fax form. I sent it on Wednesday and had a new bulb waiting for me on Friday with an included paid return sticker for the failed unit. Online in time for the SG1 premier.

I have never had a tech support experience that went this smoothly.

-Ianianken, that is great news!!! I had a (very minor) issue with my WD2000U when I first got it and got A++ support from Mitsu. I had never had tech support like that before. I thought I had just gotten lucky. Reading from your experience I am inclined to say, the feedback from Mitsubishi's support seems to be generally absolutely top of the class, and if that is their trend, to me that is worth xxx points and an extra gold standard. From Sony to Optoma and Infocus (my latest PJs) it was nothing but a continuing nightmare on anything that related to post sales. I am truly impressed with Mitsu on all fronts of their display business. Truly impressed.

Wanting to upgrade from my Panny 700 and was thinking of this model. I'm going to a brighter room and I'm ready for DLP. Anyone think I would be crazy to do this? Will I see a difference? I'm using a progressive DVD player and Motorola HD box.
Thanks!

I've read ahros other posts and I think he might have had his expectations a bit too high based on our enthusiasm for the projector. :-)


Well, here's the story. I was getting lots of noise on the PJ through analog. My Time Warner STB outputs 1080i so apparently the scaler in the Mits is not that great. When I forced the STB to output only 720p (and 480 for SD), the Mits PQ did improve, and I see the possibilites. Still there is some noise and I don't have a scaler to feed the Mits its native resolution, as was stated. I use a STB and my HD DVD player, no computer, no scaler.

BUT the real downside is my Tosh HD DVD player. I bought the Mits to go with it, but Tosh A1 doesn't do well at 720p, everything MUST be outputted at 1080i to get that great PQ of HD DVD. SO the Mits again has to scale and I now get lots of noise on my HD DVDs. If only there was some way to reduce this noise, I would be a happy camper. Right now, I dull it down by using theater mode and drop brightness and contrast into the minus column when using the Tosh.

On a side note: The Mits, on my setup, doesn't allow me tint control over analog. It's not highlighted. What is that?

ahro, I have been watching and read this whole thread, trying to decide what to do. (I also have setup issues, but that's another matter.). My primary HD source is also the HD-A1 player and I was concerned about the same thing you mentioned. The fact that the WD2000 requires 720p and the HD-A1 does best outputting 1080i is a bad mismatch. And like most others, I have no outboard video processor/scaler. The only other option apparently is getting that CD and dealing with the service menu and I have no ability with regards to that. The BENQ8270 is apparently a good, albeit more expensive alternative, though the pictures liebkid posted (which are gone now) sure made the Mitsu look superior, at least on the huge screen liebkid used (159"). I'm gonna keep watching this thread to see if someone has some ideas. I assume liebkid felt the thread was going downhill so he has abandoned it, which is too bad because he was really well-informed and super-experieinced. Oh well..

Ianken, what would you suggest? I also would have high expectations being that I currently play the HD-A1 on a 60" Sony SXRD, and would hope for something close to as good, just much larger. How would you get around the 720p/1080i mismatch with the WD2000? This is my first time with FP. I expect to use a screen around 100-106 inches (it could go larger, depending on setup), approx 18 feet away. It'll be my living room, and when I use it, I'll pull it over the TV (60" set). At night, with lights out, there is still some ambient light, and I'll also use it during the day with sunlight sometimes coming in the a large window directed toward the screen. If the wd2000u doesn't work for me, will the BENQ8720 be accptable. I appreciate any advice. Thank you. .. Jeff

"The only other option apparently is getting that CD and dealing with the service menu "

Actually I don't think that would help with the res issue, juat color, gamma, etc.

If folks are considering more expensive projectors to better handle scaling of the preferred 1080i from HD DVD players, the money might be better spent on an outboard processor. You'd end up with more "system" flexibility and retain the image quality and punch that the WD2000 has to offer.

I assume ahro and Jeff that you are setting overscan to 100% to eliminate the forced scaling that the WD2000 otherwise imposes on 720 inputs? If not, this would degrade the DVD player's 720p quality somewhat, mostly in the form of softening. Not sure what form of noise you are seeing.

If folks are considering more expensive projectors to better handle scaling of the preferred 1080i from HD DVD players, the money might be better spent on an outboard processor. You'd end up with more "system" flexibility and retain the image quality and punch that the WD2000 has to offer.

I assume ahro and Jeff that you are setting overscan to 100% to eliminate the forced scaling that the WD2000 otherwise imposes on 720 inputs? If not, this would degrade the DVD player's 720p quality somewhat, mostly in the form of softening. Not sure what form of noise you are seeing.

On analog with my STB, at least to me, there is too much video noise in dark areas of a scene. (dithering?). Of course, if the original transfer has bright lighting you don't see it.

As far as those who have the Tosh HD DVD player, this business of 720p scaling seems to be a bit of a videophile's nitpick. Over DVI the HD DVD and the Mits work very well together. I tried Swordfish and U 571 and they looked pretty damn good. I also tried upconverts at 1080i of some reference DVDs - Superbit Starship Troopers and North BY Northwest. They looked wonderful. It's the analog over my STB that seems to be annoying. There's dithering, it doesn't handle reds that well (some macroblocking, and detail is still an issue at 100% overscan). I'm very reluctant to try to muck about with the service CD, as I think some others here are as well. And I'm certainly not going to buy a scaler for 1 or 2k.

I have now read this whole thread - whew! and I need to scour the user manual for a tidbit that may be helpful. Fine sync doesn't seem to do anything. I'm wondering if this is because my STB is component RCA and I'm going into the Mits using RCA to BNC adapters without the use of the other two sync inputs on the back of the Mits.

I will try some tech support at Mits tomorrow.

So ahro, then what you are saying is that you can output 1080i from the HD-A1 and the WD2000 downconverts to 720p very well as long as you use an HDMI->DVI connection. It's ONLY when you use analog (i.e. component) that you have issues (noise in dark scenes, etc.)? Do I have all this right? Thanks for your help. .. Jeff

I'm in the market for a PJ and the main thing I gathered from this thread is:

for the $$ you save (say on a BenQ) on a PJ buy a good external scalar and send 768 to this Pj to see the best it can offer. This PJ does great if you send it what it wants...

If that's not in your budget then buy a different PJ

So ahro, then what you are saying is that you can output 1080i from the HD-A1 and the WD2000 downconverts to 720p very well as long as you use an HDMI->DVI connection. It's ONLY when you use analog (i.e. component) that you have issues (noise in dark scenes, etc.)? Do I have all this right? Thanks for your help. .. Jeff

More or less. I'm getting a much cleaner signal from DVI when I use the HD-A1.

On analog with my STB, at least to me, there is too much video noise in dark areas of a scene. (dithering?). Of course, if the original transfer has bright lighting you don't see it.

Blame your source, not the Mits. I'm feeding it 480i DVD over component and it is a very low noise picture. There is a LPF filter setting which might help, never tried it.

If everyone recalls seeing the pictures of The Fifth Element posted by liebkid, the final calibrated picture of the WD2000 had noticeably deeper blacks and depth than the low-power non-calibrated (right-out-of-the-box) picture, while having what appeared to be about the same brightness. How much of the improvement in blacks and depth is attributed to a professional calibration and how much comes from having an outboard processor. All answers are welcome and appreciated. .. Jeff

There is a LPF filter setting which might help, never tried it.

you need to read the manual

...I assume liebkid felt the thread was going downhill so he has abandoned it...Jeff: correction. I did not abandon this thread because it was "going downhill"... I don't even know where you get such ideas. As I stated (clearly you don't read mine and other members posts on the matter), I moved out so other people could have more active voice at the request of other members that wanted to hear from other people rather than me, mostly. Also, I have gotten somewhat weary of people (like yourself) putting words on my actions and remarks that have little to do with the reality of things coming from my end.

Thank you.

Now on another note...

ahro; hopefully you read all my posts where time after time, I stated this projector DID NOT LIKE ANY OTHER INPUTS (ANALOGUE INCLUDED) OTHER THAN DVI, so, getting a disappointing picture from an input I specifically mentioned it was less than idea, is of course, redundant. Also, The WD2000U is the sharpest PJ I have ever dealt with. I venture to say 99% of all your issues with disappointing image quality and lack of sharpness are all source related. The WD2000U does NOT forgive less than ideal sources. It shows all the **** in them! Finally, as for your lack of perceived brightness, I have no clue what you are doing. I have 3 WD2000Us setup on 159" screens on low power mode with roughly 500 hours on the bulbs and they are light cannons.

liebkid, I apologize for my assumption. I incorrectly thought you were done with the thread because, even though you said you were leaving the thread to others to post about the WD2000, you had come back to discuss the blue/purple-fringing a few owners had noticed. At that point, there was also a complaint about noise and other issues, and the great pictures of The Fifth Element were no longer available on page 18 of the thread, so I thought you had had enough. Again, I'm very sorry for incorrectly stating that you were no longer on the thread because it was "going downhill". FWIW, as I mention a few posts back (#729), I'm new to this and I am planning to purchase my first front projector and trying to decide between this and BENQ8270, and even though I've read this entire thread twice, I had a couple of questions. I do not currently own the WD2000 and I have not seen any pictures from it except the ones you posted on page 18. Take care, and again I'm sorry.

First let me say thanks to those who found this PJ, I'm hoping this will be my next PJ, and that it will be soon (long story :( ).

Finally, as for your lack of perceived brightness, I have no clue what you are doing. I have 3 WD2000Us setup on 159" screens on low power mode with roughly 500 hours on the bulbs and they are light cannons.

If I may note, I think ahro is coming from a 2000 lumen business (4:3) projector, while most others in this thread (including you liebkid) are coming from <1000 lumen HT projectors. I think that would explain the perceived difference in brightess. ahro did say it was brighter, just not "way" brighter, and I'd venture that the jump from 500-1000 -> 3000 is a lot bigger than the jump from 2000 -> 3000.

Hi all,

I am still (arghhhhh!) waiting on my screen from Da-Lite (shipped a couple of weeks ago, high contrast matte white.

In the meantime, using a home made screen (of sorts) I watched Electra. Wow. Lots of white sheets (at the martial arts camp and in the final battle scene), of course, lots of color and night scenes. The Mits handled all of it so well I was very impressed (again). This is convincing me that mastering DVD discs has as much to do with picture quality as any other component.

The screen is about 17 feet away from the viewing area. I'd say about 120 inch diag. The projector is ceiling mounted (2 ft drop). Set overscan to 100%, input is from Denon 2910 DVD player using DVI. I go back and forth between 720p and 1080i. Contrast set to plus 25 and brightness set to minus 10. Low lamp and theater mode. That's about it. Every movies is absolutely a joy to watch. But, again DVD disc mastering seems to be critical.


Can't wait to see how the screen improves the picture.

Marcus

First let me say thanks to those who found this PJ, I'm hoping this will be my next PJ, and that it will be soon (long story :( ).



If I may note, I think ahro is coming from a 2000 lumen business (4:3) projector, while most others in this thread (including you liebkid) are coming from <1000 lumen HT projectors. I think that would explain the perceived difference in brightess. ahro did say it was brighter, just not "way" brighter, and I'd venture that the jump from 500-1000 -> 3000 is a lot bigger than the jump from 2000 -> 3000.

Yes, quite right. I never said the Mits was not bright, it is very bright. And in answer to Liebkid's other point that the Mits only likes DVI, what are the analog inputs for then? As an aside, the Sharp was designed with HT in mind as well as business. It's still only XGA but a nice machine for the money, so is the Mits.

trying to decide between this and BENQ8270

I'm definitely not a 'pro' in the FP game, but I do think I understand the diff between the Benq8720 and the Mits 2000. The former is one of the good, high constrast, low lumen (~300-500 lumens after calibration for HT) dlp pj's (similar to the Sammy 710). They work very well in a totally light-controlled room (incl dark ceiling and walls) with a not-too-large screen. The Mits, though, will be better if your room is not the ideal 'bat cave' and if your screen is larger than 120" diag, say. Just my take on what I've been reading.

My last projector was a BenQ 8700+ and it was projected into a light controlled home theater. I was happy with the BenQ for several years it had good blacks and much better shadow detail than any of the previous LCD projectors that I have owned. The brightness was fine and I was getting close to 2000:1 contrast ratio on/off. BUT..... Today I am trying to decide wether to go with the BenQ 8720 and get similar brightness and much better black level or go with the Mits and get a CR that is very similar to what I have (which was very good) and triple the lumen output on top of that. I would have to say that the Mits is the winner for me.

Hello again...finally got my Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen in today (who hoo!). I watched Constantine. Had to drop from 1080i to 720p...seemed a better picture that way. Adjusted the contrast and brightness. WOW...even my wife said the "three dimensional" quality to the picture was awesome. I have to agree. Lots of long hallways in this movie. Makes you feel like you are there. The screen is great. Just perfect for a white living room/home theater. Simply awesome.

Mits 2000U, Denon 2910 (HDMI out), overscan set to 100%.

Marcus

Hello again...finally got my Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen in today (who hoo!). I watched Constantine. Had to drop from 1080i to 720p...seemed a better picture that way. Adjusted the contrast and brightness. WOW...even my wife said the "three dimensional" quality to the picture was awesome. I have to agree. Lots of long hallways in this movie. Makes you feel like you are there. The screen is great. Just perfect for a white living room/home theater. Simply awesome.

Mits 2000U, Denon 2910 (HDMI out), overscan set to 100%.Marcus, I just wanted to drop a note to thank you for all your long-time interest and contribution to this thread and give you congrats for your (finally all setup) new Home Theatre!!! :)

The former is one of the good, high constrast, low lumen (~300-500 lumens after calibration for HT) dlp pj's (similar to the Sammy 710). They work very well in a totally light-controlled room (incl dark ceiling and walls) with a not-too-large screen. The Mits, though, will be better if your room is not the ideal 'bat cave' and if your screen is larger than 120" diag,

Thanks Millerwill, I know all of this since I did read this thread a couple of times. My situation is that my screen is going to be more likely 100-106", watched from 18 feet in my living room, often with ambient light and sometimes during the daytime. Also, I don't have a high-end outboard video processor which I have read is necessary to get all that this projector has to offer. The posted pictures of the Fifth Element clearly showed the advantage of using a $ 5000+ scaler/processor compared to the out-of-the-box image, though it isn't clear to me how much of that improvement could be gained from just a calibration. Even though the Benq pe8270 looked dim in comparison, it was displayed on a 159" screen I believe. And I've been told that the Benq is perfect for ther 100+" size screen, is ok with ambient light at that size, and has a much superior scaler/processor. I do want to be able to watch during the day so that is what is making me lean to the Mitsu, that and the extremely high quality that has been described in this thread (except for the scaler). I wil be outputing alot of 1080i from several devices (Toshiba HD-A1, pair of Sony hdd500 HD DVRs) and I would like to know if the Mitsi 2000u's scaling weakness is mostly upconversion, and that it actually maybe does a very good job downconverting from 1080i to 720p. So I don't find this decisiion so cut-and-dried for me. .. Jeff

Thanks Millerwill, I know all of this since I did read this thread a couple of times. My situation is that my screen is going to be more likely 100-106", watched from 18 feet in my living room, often with ambient light and sometimes during the daytime. Also, I don't have a high-end outboard video processor which I have read is necessary to get all that this projector has to offer. The posted pictures of the Fifth Element clearly showed the advantage of using a $ 5000+ scaler/processor compared to the out-of-the-box image, though it isn't clear to me how much of that improvement could be gained from just a calibration. Even though the Benq pe8270 looked dim in comparison, it was displayed on a 159" screen I believe. And I've been told that the Benq is perfect for ther 100+" size screen, is ok with ambient light at that size, and has a much superior scaler/processor. I do want to be able to watch during the day so that is what is making me lean to the Mitsu, that and the extremely high quality that has been described in this thread (except for the scaler). I will be outputting a lot of 1080i from several devices (Toshiba HD-A1, pair of Sony hdd500 HD DVRs) and I would like to know if the Mitsu 2000u's scaling weakness is mostly up conversion, and that it actually maybe does a very good job downconverting from 1080i to 720p. So I don't find this decision so cut-and-dried for me. .. JeffThe Mitsu 2000u's scaling weakness is not so much in up or down conversion, as it is on the source type. If, whatever your source, DVD, HDTV, etc., you feed it via DVI, the PJ will do a very good to near-excellent job. As a rule of thumb, a test should be done on your sources to see if the best combo is for example HDTV box outputting 1080i and the PJ doing the down work to 720p or having the box do the 720p internally and feed the PJ that signal. The only way to test it is to try it so you can see which machine has the better scaler and how the "marriage" works better between source hardware and the PJ. Its all one-on-one case dependent on one's specific hardware.

On my case specifically, of course I route everything to my External Video Processor, but, I did a lot of testing bypassing it. I found that the best image from my DVD player (a Denon DVD-5910ci) was obtained when setting to upscale the signal directly to output 720p (clearly showing that the DVD player with its internal HQV chip is better at it). However, using my Dish HDTV box, I found the image much better when letting it out at 1080i and then having the PJ do the down conversion to 720p. If, setting the Dish box to do the down converting job, the image had jaggies and other stuff in it. In this case, the scaler on the PJ is clearly better. One has to try to be sure of what works best and how.

One thing you might need though, is to get some sort of an HDCP compliant DVI switcher as the WD2000U unfortunately only has one DVI in. I cannot state enough times that connecting the Mitsubishi to any hardware other than via DVI will result in major disappointments. This thing does not like anything with the word analogue on it.

One thing you might need though, is to get some sort of an HDCP compliant DVI switcher as the WD2000U unfortunately only has one DVI in.

This is an impractical solution, particularly for people who don't have outboard processors. There is very little control over DVI, and any kind of tweaking is very limited.