OK, so I am rarely blown away by any display product now-a-days... but last nite was the exception. Yesterday I went to a student film show in Santa Barbara and they had setup a large screen in the UC's auditorium with an 16x9 Video Projector. The quality of this thing was amazing and it was blinding bright... I mean, bright!

Contrast and image depth of this thing was gorgeous. Little to no visible rainbows, very, very good shadow detail and hard-to-see artifacts of any kind. Images were suprisingly free of any fizzing noise over motion, dot crawl or typical DLP related stuff. Black levels were generally outstanding and I was surprised at the overall picture quality balance when looking at B&W material. For the vast majority of what I saw, colors were positively stunning, only with a slight green tint which I think had to do with the PJ itself clearly not being properly calibrated. In general colors were superbly natural in tone and delineated with subtlety I usually see only in 3-chip machines.

When the show was over I walked to the booth to see the PJ. It was being fed DVI video from an HTPC outputting native 720P. The show was sponsored by Sony and Mitsubishi and I thought for a moment this could be some sort of a new Sony "DLP" PJ I had never seen or heard of. Nope. None of that. What I saw was a fairly attractive. straightforwardly designed, comparatively small, all-white machine (no clue on the weight) bearing the Mitsubishi logo; the WD-2000U, somehting I had never heard of it. Single 1280x768 DMD (720P compatible) featuring 3000 lumens, BrilliantColor Technology and no iris tricks. After checking their website when I got home I was then further flabbergasted at its list price; less that $4K.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/proj_wd2000u.asp

For those of you fiddling with a 720P purchase in the 3K to 4K range, you have GOT to see the image quality of this thing to believe it. Figure 3000 lumens to play around with... calibrate it nicely and you'll still have plenty of light to spare, EVEN when the bulb dims out of its original full strength output. Now, add 5000 hours bulb life, all the bells and whistles... multiple lens options (though I think they are all snap-on conversion types so quality might be dubious), motorized V+H lens shift, motorized zoom & focus, etc... This is by far the best high-power single-chip DLP machine I have ever seen and the advantages of the 1280x768 chip vs. 1280x720p chip are numerous when it comes to source HTPC fed material and connectivity flexibility... Color & B&W gradation, depth and overall image punch and overall CR literally blew me away. Whether this is due TI's BrilliantColor Technology in action or Mitsubishi's own engineering, I do not know. Also, the PJ is very, very quiet. Being used to the noise of high-power PJs, I can say this machine is near silent (at least from what I read from the manual in low brightness mode, 240W bulb output vs. 300W in maximum brightness).

When everyone left and I was left alone with the projection guys, since the PJ was fed via a PC and it was connected to the internet, I asked them to download a couple of 1080P QuickTime trailers from the Apple's website to see them on the screen. Also, I grabbed the remote and quickly did a basic color correction to try and calibrate the unit to get rid of some of the green tint, with partial success within... my 5 minute play time with it. D A R N ! That's all I can say. I would not be able to find words to describe looking at The DaVinci Code, King Kong and V for Vendetta Trailers shown in 720p from their original 1080p file format blazed at the screen... (the PJ did the down conversion by this time as we had set the PC to 1920x1080 resolution).

I suspect this thing uses a white segment on the color wheel as the image depth was clearly the best on the "theatre/high-contrast" mode rather than the several highest brightness settings available which I think activates it. On high brightness modes (we are talking about a really, really bright image) I saw some white clipping and a general loss of fine detail. The machine had 340 hours on it and if this is any indication of bulb brightness loss, this is one heck of a dazzling producing images light canon. I have no clue what screen the auditorium had and though I asked around, no one knew. It was not white, but "silverish" looking, I could see that much, thus, I have no idea on it's gain or properties.

I had never even looked into Mitsubishi PJs, but I am truly impressed. I had no clue Mitsubishi was engineering this type of quality products, specially, NEVER under $4K. This thing is like no other. It blows everyone else out of the water... if only it was native 1080p......... maybe one more year or so :)

Good find! It looks extremely promising and interesting. One thing I would like to correct you post though, it does list BrilliantColor technology built-in.

Wonder how much the street price is.

Apparently the 2000 stands for the 2000-1 contrast ratio. Powerfully bright but those contrast numbers are not worth all that excitement.

It's being marketed as a business/conference room projector first.

Apparently the 2000 stands for the 2000-1 contrast ratio. Powerfully bright but those contrast numbers are not worth all that excitement.


I beg to differ only because of the amount of lumens we are talking about and the fantastic price. It sounds like this machine beats the pants off the Sanyo PLV70 and 80. Sure, there are PJ's that are about as bright that has much better contrast ratios, but plan on forking out a good 15 grand on these machines!

This machine sounds like it can tap into a market that is overlooked by most PJ manufacturers. I have a very large screen (12 feet wide) and my room is not well light controlled. My options are very limited. I've been looking at the Sanyo's for years but never can let myself go back to the LCD dust blobs again.

A bright DLP with lens shift for under 4k! How exciting!

Oh yeah, I wanted to thank liebkid for this review! Just yesterday I learned about this machine while browsing the Infocomm06 website and saw the listing on projectorcentral. In reading the press releases, this is indeed marketed primarily toward business use, but there is specific mention to home theater use as well.

I had high hopes for the HD4000U for home theater use, but reviews suggest otherwise. I hope this machine will not disappoint.

steeee: Many other people have supported your argument. I.e., with even a small amount of ambient light, it seems that super high CR is destroyed, so the pj's with super high CR's are essentially 'wasted'. The best way to deal with any ambient light is brightness; this creats the illusion of good contrast.

The best way to deal with any ambient light is brightness; this creats the illusion of good contrast.Just wanted to point out that it isn't just an illusion. A fixed amount of ambient light from lights on or coming into the room (not just reflections) will have less of a contrast ratio reducing effect with a projector with more lumens (1000/5 is higher than 500/5 for instance).

--Darin

"Just wanted to point out that it isn't just an illusion."

Me too :)

Another way of saying it is that if ambient light is determining the black level, then the only way to increase on-screen CR is by increasing the white level.

I would like to have had the opportunity (which I didn't of course) to spend a few hours calibrating the PJ for the best CR and color, and then reading at the best possible settings the light output on the screen. But this machine sets an absolute new standard. Comparing it to the PLV-70 is night and day... impossible, and, recalling my impressions of high-power PJs in the triple range cost such as the 3-Chip Panny 7700U, this thing is seriously fantastic. From the time I spent with the Mitsubishi, this machine takes a stand as a quiet, extremely bright and perfectly suited for both large business venues and the home theatre enthusiast using larger screens, without the typical concessions of high light output devices when it comes to color rendition and overall contrast. My biggest question here is indeed whether the overall achievements in this PJ are due to TI's BrilliantColor Technology in action or Mitsubishi's own engineering, as, this PJ is not a rebadge from anyone else. Its theirs. I look forward in reading other reviews on the Projector and get second opinions as well as readings from a best scenario calibrated machine, but, a turning point in front projection has taken place, and that is, without major compromises to picture quality according to modern standards, a projector can deliver an absolutely awe-inspiring and stunning image for very large screens, not wimp on features like lens shifting and connectivity diversity and, leave plenty of cash left in the owners pocket for others things.

When (performance-wise) technologically compared to machines like the PLV-70/80) and as I read review for $30K single-chip PJs just because their 1080p DMD, what comes to mind is that both this is an tremendous advancement in the consumer buying power for better technology, and, that pricing wise, everyone else better get their act together and take a closer look at products like this that are worth double the dollar invested, not, a fraction of it.

This machine is an industry turning point in price/ quality/ features and I would still think so if it was MSRP'ed at twice the cost. This is good news indeed. I hope in a year or two, there is a version of this PJ as a 1080p. I take my hat off for Mitsubishi, a brand from which I'd never even imagined being interested in looking at a PJ from.

Agree that this really is exciting: even if the lumens go down to 1500 when calibrated for HT (6500K), this is still outstanding. (And 1080p in another year or so would be just in my time frame for buying.) For a 133" diag screen, this is ~30 ftL for a 1.0 gain screen, and it goes up from there (e.g., 84 ftL with a HighPower!) Talk about a 133" plasma for less than $10K!

I too am excited about this projector as it answers my call for a bright DLP with lens shift at a reasonable price. I also think that if this projector can provide a true 2000:1 CR at greater than 1000 measured ANSI lumens that it is indeed something to be excited about. Many people just get too wrapped up in contrast ratios. As I have stated in a few other threads, I have a Sony HS51 that I use in the iris off mode. I prefer the brighter picture to the higher contrast ratio any day. In iris off mode I am getting 1000:1 CR at best and I might be getting 500 ANSI lumens. So if I can double both those numbers I am very excited!

My only concern is the RBE. I have never seen RBE but then again I have not watched many single chip DLPs for a long period of time. This is a 5 segment color wheel with a white segment to boost brightness which is to be expected but I don't know what speed. I would venture to guess that the performance will be similar to the HD4000U but lets hope it has better than a 2x color wheel.

I too am excited about this projector as it answers my call for a bright DLP with lens shift at a reasonable price. I also think that if this projector can provide a true 2000:1 CR at greater than 1000 measured ANSI lumens that it is indeed something to be excited about. Many people just get too wrapped up in contrast ratios. As I have stated in a few other threads, I have a Sony HS50 that I use in the iris off mode. I prefer the brighter picture to the higher contrast ratio any day. In iris off mode I am getting 1000:1 CR at best and I might be getting 500 ANSI lumens. So if I can double both those numbers I am very excited!

My only concern is the RBE. I have never seen RBE but then again I have not watched many single chip DLPs for a long period of time. This is a 5 segment color wheel with a white segment to boost brightness which is to be expected but I don't know what speed. I would venture to guess that the performance will be similar to the HD4000U but lets hope it has better than a 2x color wheel.I am personally NOT too sensitive to RBE so I'd be the wrong person to give sound advice, but I didn't notice any RBE that distracted me... nor was I looking for it. This is one of those rare PJs that you get taken away by its image quality and forget on trying and find flaws. All I did was enjoying the content and to me, that says it all. I have no clue as to what the rotational speed is on the color wheel. I have a friend in LA that has a HD4000U with a 2x color wheel and now I am curious to compare his machine to this one, which I will do this Sunday. Also, from my short time with it, I would say at 1/2 the maximum brightness you'll get close to the 2000 CR specd. I mean, the show I watched was in high brightness mode and the picture's depth was amazing. Black and white content looked extremelly, film-like. When I briefly played with the unit in "theatre"/high contrast mode, light drop was not too dramatic when compared to high brightness, and picture was simply superb. I believe this machine can easily do 1500 lumens at around 2000:1CR calibrated, and, at its price range, I have personally never seen anything like it anywhere close. Nothing can touch this thing for the money, and I have seen, a lot of PJs. I think this machine is the 2006 DLP version of what the "Sanyo PLV-70" was for the HT world in 2002.

If this is going to street for about 3K, I think it'll be the proj I've been looking for to replace my Panny 500U!

I like that it has several lens options for different throws. This is something every manufacture should be doing.

Darin,

Since the lens is removeable, would it be possible to insert a DIY iris in the correct location to boost CR?

Motorized Focus, Zoom, and Offset plus 3000 lumen and 2K:1 CR for <$4k sounds pretty compelling. I wonder how much they want for the long throw lens option?

This thing has an sRGB mode too. My Canon SX50 sRGB mode is very close to D65 OOTB. So if anyone gets a chance, select sRGB mode and have a look.

Ken

I like that it has several lens options for different throws. This is something every manufacture should be doing.

Very true. E.g., the short throw lens for this pj will be perfect if I want to put it on a stand just behind our seats, ~ 13 to 14 ft away (e.g., to use a retro-reflective screen like the HighPower): a 110", 120" and 133" diag screen, for example, has a screen-to-lens range of 10.4-15.2, 11.2-16.5, and 12.5-18.4 ft, respectively, so that any of them would be possible with this lens. Great flexibility.

Would there be any PQ downsides to the short throw lens?

Since the lens is removeable, would it be possible to insert a DIY iris in the correct location to boost CR?
Might be. The Panasonic 7000U lens was separate, but I couldn't figure out how to get it open without taking a chance on breaking it.

--Darin

The Mits looks interesting. Here is a similar $4K light cannon that may be interesting to some. Optoma EP910: 3500 lumens, 3000:1 CR, DarkChip3.

http://www.optomausa.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=252

Ben

Well if it is a High Lumen HC3000 with a couple more bells and whistles (lens shift and lens options) then it should be an amazing unit .

----------- Jason

The Mits looks interesting. Here is a similar $4K light cannon that may be interesting to some. Optoma EP910: 3500 lumens, 3000:1 CR, DarkChip3.

http://www.optomausa.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=252

Ben
More expensive. No lens shift. No optional lens options. Louder.

It sounds promising but I doubt it has a fast color wheel.

Doesn't higher lumens particularly with single chip dlp with the white segment and slower color wheel significantly affect color and detail?. Not just contrast. Making them not so good for home cinema use. I think that people think that higher lumens only affects constrast but I bet it affects every aspect of the picture. Maybe this is why the HD4000 didn't review so well for home cinema use.

More expensive. No lens shift. No optional lens options. Louder.

Also it is a 4x3 projector instead of 16x9

The optoma EP910 looks even better. Dark chip 3 should make it a significantly better projector than the Mitsu.

This seems very similar to it's sister projector the Mits HD4000U. Here is the review of that projector from Projector Central:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hd4000u.htm

Here are both projectors on the Mits web site:

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/projectors.asp#hometheater

From the specs, the 4000U is not quite as bright - 2000 lumens vs 3000, but has better contrast 2500:1 vs 2000:1. There are some functional tradeoffs as well, the 4000U only has lens shift in one direction and does not have the RJ45 port and software. Also, the bulb is 4,000 hours vs 5,000. You can read through both specs on the Mits web site to see they have slightly different features/functions but it seems they have the same core engine.

Now from the review, you will see overall they are not that impressed. As mentioned in the review, Mits is not pushing this towards this HT crowd. However, it seems like the 4000U would be more likely to fit the HT market than the 2000U, so I suspect the 2000U would review as similar or worse than the 4000U.

Reading the review, you will see that to get that bright of a light output requires some big image trade offs. Most HT folks would probably not be willing to make the image tradeoff.

Now what looks interesting is the projector Mits is targeting towards the HT crowd - the HC3000U. Here are the specs:

- 4000:1 Contrast (they credit the all-glass lens)
- 1,000 lumens
- 3,000 hrs Bulb Life
- DarkChip2 - DDP 3020
- 26 dBa noise level.

Has anyone had any experience with the HC3000U? Here is a review from last year of a HC3000 model (without the U).

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc3000.htm

I am not sure what the new 'U' model provides.

Robert

We need a light cannon shootout:

Mits WD2000U
Opt EP910
Canon SX60
Sanyo PLV-80

Others?

Ken

How about the Sanyo PLV-80?

Robert,

I think there is a significant interest in a lights on projector in the 2000+ lumen category that has "good enough" CR at say 2000:1 or higher.

I think it is a distinctive category that I hope manufacturers will cater to.

Ken

There is also the XD1000U which is basically the exact some PJ just a little less bright. The cost of this one is much cheaper and fits in the under $3,500 range; from what I have found there is no difference in the two other than the total lumens which to me isn't that big of a deal since 3000+ is plenty for most HT. As far as the quality of the image I cannot comment on that, but it I would be surprised to hear that it's not worth the investment at such a low street price?

I was going to pull the trigger on the PLV-80 until I was turned on to this option, can anyone argue against it?

Looks like a nice PJ...great find!

There is also the XD1000U which is basically the exact some PJ just a little less bright. The cost of this one is much cheaper and fits in the under $3,500 range; from what I have found there is no difference in the two other than the total lumens which to me isn't that big of a deal since 3000+ is plenty for most HT. As far as the quality of the image I cannot comment on that, but it I would be surprised to hear that it's not worth the investment at such a low street price?

I was going to pull the trigger on the PLV-80 until I was turned on to this option, can anyone argue against it?

From the listed specs, the 1000 is a 4x3 unit so I think the 2000 model is more suitable for a HT setting.

Looks like a great projector for a giant rear projection set-up. Match that baby with a 120" diagonal rear projection screen and you will have something to impress your friends and scare little children. ;)

According to Projector Centrals' calculator, if you hooked that unit up with a low cost 1.5 gain 120" rear projection screen you would have 79 Foot Lamberts. Mated with a expensive 3.5 gain DNP "new wide angle screen" and it shows 184 Foot Lamberts. Even if you cut those figures in half for low power mode they are impressive.

IB

inky blacks, you're right, that would be a stunning setup :) One side question, what is the highest gain front PJ screen out there? Anything higher than the DaLite High Power (the Vuetec's is specd and much higher but it is not brighter than the DaLite)... The issue with the High Power is that the viewing angles are very short and unless one is close to dead center, light fall-off is radical.

. The issue with the High Power is that the viewing angles are very short and unless one is close to dead center, light fall-off is radical.

That's what the 'theory' says, but I just don't see it on the HighPower's that I have seen. I don't notice any significant dimming until well beyond the edge of the screen, and even then the illumination of the screen is completely uniform and good looking.

The Silverstar is the brightest as far as I know. If you have compared the Silverstar side by side with the High Power and found the HP brighter, then you up against a wall. I remember someone testing the Silverstar and claiming the gain was only 3. If you get high gain you are going to lose viewing angle.

You might consider the DNP Supernova front projection screen. It has some gain but incredible rejection of room light. The Mitsubishi combined with a 120" Supernova would be an incredible combination.

IB

IB-

Thanks for pointing that out. I mixed up the WD with the XD and could of made a really poor mistake. Back on track :p

Does the WD2000U only have a 2X color wheel like the Mitsubishi HD4000U? If so, that would be a deal killer for most HT buyers.

IB

turn off the white segments for HT use... and i have a feeling the lumens respond accordingly...

Does the WD2000U only have a 2X color wheel like the [QUOTE=inky blacks]Does the WD2000U only have a 2X color wheel like the Mitsubishi HD4000U? If so, that would be a deal killer for most HT buyers.
There is no word on the color wheel speed on the Mitsu product brochure and website, however, though I am not particular sensitive to the issue, I did not see it anymore on my face while watching the PJ in action than any other HT machine currently on the market.

turn off the white segments for HT use... and i have a feeling the lumens respond accordingly...
Don't forget a couple things: this machine has both a 300W light source that spells a lot of light output by its own attributes and, aside from integrating a white segment, TI's BrilliantColor Technology by itself improves overall light response's luminosity based on earlier color wheel designs. The presentation I saw with this machine, specially the HD trailers after a short color correction, setting in theatre/high contrast mode and turning off the white segment, was extremely, extremely bright... this, on a projector with over 300 hours on the bulb... a time by which (to be modest in my choice of words) most bulbs have lost a lot of the its initial "spark" :)

How big was the screen you saw it on?

Let's keep things in perspective and not compare this to the "traditional" home theater projector that just doesn't have the lumens that some of us want. Those of us that want a higher lumen projector for larger screens or watching with the lights on are typically willing to sacrifice in other areas. So those of you that are not interested in this type of projector please stop telling us this is not suitable for Home Theater because I believe it is. If you go read the threads on the HD4000U you will find some happy owners using it for home theater. We also have the author of this thread that has witnessed the projector and was obviously impressed. Additionally there is a huge thread on tweaking the Ruby to provide for a brighter picture that some say may reduce other qualities and many people prefer the brighter picture.

The bottom line is that this may be a better alternative to the few options in this price range for bright projectors.

My only concern is over the 2x speed color wheel that I am almost sure this machine has and the RBE. If anyone in Los Angeles gets this projector or has the HD4000U and would be willing to show it to a fellow AVSer please let me know as I would really like to spend some time viewing it.

I would also love to see the shootout between this and the other similar projects mentioned especially the Canon SX60 and the Optoma EP910. The issue with the latter projectors is lack of lens shift, anyone know what the offsets are for these projectors?

The Silverstar is the brightest as far as I know. If you have compared the Silverstar side by side with the High Power and found the HP brighter, then you up against a wall. I remember someone testing the Silverstar and claiming the gain was only 3. If you get high gain you are going to lose viewing angle.

You might consider the DNP Supernova front projection screen. It has some gain but incredible rejection of room light. The Mitsubishi combined with a 120" Supernova would be an incredible combination.

IB

I apologize that my contribution here is somewhat off topic, but it is related to get the brightest possible (good) picture, which is what the Mits wd2000u is all about.

In all I read in various threads comparing the SilverStar and HighPower, these are my conclusions:

1) They both have about the same gain head-on (~3).

2) The SS has a much wider viewing angle.

3) The SS is thus not as good at rejecting ambient light (at least from the side).

4) The SS tends to 'hot spot' and produce 'sparklies' more than the HP; the image given by the HP is somewhat sharper.

5) The HP can be had in sizes > 120" diag.

6) To get the best performance from the HP, it should be mounted near eye level, while the SS can be ceiling mounted.

7) The SS is about 3x (or more) the price of the HP.

I thus conclude that if viewing angle is not an issue (e.g., if your viewing area is not unusally wide) and if you are able to mount the HP not too far from eye level, then the HP is the obvious choice. I would appreciate hearing if I have missed the boat in any of these conclusions. I own no screen, but am seriously investigating all possibilities.

Anyone doing a powerbuy on the WD2000U?

I'm surprised no decided to look at the pdf spec sheet on Mits' site! :cool:

DISPLAY TECH 0.65", 1-Chip DMD, 12 deg. LVDS, DarkChip 2™ with DDP3020
RESOLUTION 1280 x 768 (Total 983,040 pixels), 600 Video Lines
BRIGHTNESS 3000 lumens
CONTRAST RATIO 2000 : 1 (on/off)
COLOR WHEEL 5 seg. Color Wheel (R/G/B/W/Y)
ZOOM/FOCUS Motorized Focus & Zoom Lens
PROJECTION LENS F= 2.0-2.4
THROW RATIO 1.69 - 2.26
OFF SET AXIS (V)1 : 1 – 5 up, (H) Screen Width +/-10% (with Variable H+V Lens Shift)
PICTURE SIZE 40-275 inches diagonal
SOURCE LAMP 300W (Shut Off Time 2000 Hrs) with Low Mode (240W: Shut Off Time 5000 Hrs)
PC COMPATIBILITY Resolution: 640 x 480 - 1024 x 768 + Compressed 1280 x 1024 Sync on Green available, WXGA available (1280 x 768, 1280 x 800)
VIDEO COMPATIBILITY NTSC/NTSC 4.43/PAL (including PAL-M, N) SECAM/PAL-60, Component Video; 480i/p (525i/p), 576i/p (625i/p), 720p (750p 50/60Hz), 1080i (1125i 60Hz), 1080i (1125i 50Hz) SCART (RGB + 1V sync)
INPUT TERMINALS RGB: Mini D-sub 15pin x 1, 5 BNC x 1, DVI-D (with HDCP) x 1, Audio: Stereo Mini Jack (ø 3.5mm) x 2, Video: RCA x 1 or BNC x 1, S-VIDEO x 1 or BNC (Y, C) x 1, Audio: RCA (LR) x 2
OUTPUT TERMINAL RGB: Mini D-sub 15pin x 1, Audio: Stereo mini jack (ø 3.5mm) x 1, DC OUT 5V 1.5A (Max)
COMMUNICATION TERMINAL LAN (RJ-45) x 1 (Projector control), RS-232C; D-sub 9pin x 1 (Direct command is available), Mouse; USB x 1,Wired remote in/out
SCANNING RATE [H] 15 - 100 kHz, [V] 50 - 95 Hz, [Dot Clock] max 140 MHz
AUDIO SPEAKER 3 W Mono
HEIGHT ADJUSTER Screw type front leg (0 to 7 degree variable)
HAND REMOTE UNIT 1) Projector fully control, 2) USB Mouse Cursor Control (with page up/down and home/end, 3) High brightness Laser pointer (with cancelable mode), 4) Wired remote
POWER CONSUMPTION 420W/4.2A
DIMENSION 16.93" x 6.53" x 12.99" (430 x 166 x 330 mm) (W x H x D)
WEIGHT 18.8 lbs. (8.5 kg.)
POWER REQUIREMENTS AC 100-240V, 50/60 Hz
FAN NOISE 32 dBA (Low mode: 27 dBA)
SUPPLIED ACCESSORIES • AC Power Cable • AV cable • RGB cable • USB cable • RS-232C cable • Remote Cable • Terminal Cover • Safety Manual • Remote Unit (incl. Battery) • User Manual CD
OPTIONAL ACCESSORIES Replacement Lamp (VLT-XD2000LP), Available optional Lenses, Wireless LAN Unit (when available), Ceiling Mount (XD2000CM), and Hard Rolling Case (XD2000-ATAC)
WARRANTY 3-years or 10,000 hrs on TI-DLP DMD Chip, 3-years on Parts and Labor, 3-years ERA ,90 days or 300-hour on lamp
OUTSTANDING FEATURE • Exclusive Mitsubishi Color Enhancer support • Motorized Lens shift • sRGB • 10 languages OSD • Embedded software for remote projector management • BrilliantColor™ technology • Digital keystone-correction for Vertical and Horizontal • Video Line Doubler • 3D-Y/C • Password Lock Menu Option



Note my emphasis. It has a 5 segment Color Wheel (R/G/B/W/Y) with a white and a yellow segment. This sounds similar to the NEC 500 something or other...

I remember hearing reports of the that one looking ok but that the colors could never be adjusted correctly. That doesn't mean this one will be the same but it probably doesn't fare well for it. It does have Brilliant Color processing though so that may help.

Also, I believe the NEC was a 4x wheel? Or was that the HT1000?
-Matt

EDIT: It was the NEC HT510 I was thinking of. It does have the same RGBWY 5-segment wheel but it only spins at 2x :(
NEC HT-510 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/NEC-HT510.htm)

As far as the available lenses... here are the options:

MODEL NO.------ TYPE -------------------- THROW ------- FOCAL -------- MOTORIZED FOCUS & ZOOM
============================================================ =================================
Standard Lens - Standard ---------------- 1.7 - 2.4 --- 24.5 - 33.1 -- Yes
OL-XD2000SZ --- Short Throw Zoom Lens --- 1.3 - 1.9 --- 19.6 - 26.5 -- Yes
OL-XD2000LZ --- Long Throw Zoom Lens ---- 2.1 - 2.9 --- 32.4 - 40.5 -- Yes
OL-XD2000TZ --- Tele Zoom Lens ---------- 2.9 - 4.7 --- 40.7 - 65.1 -- Yes
OL-XD2000FR --- Fixed Focal Length ------ 0.8 --------- 11.5 --------- Focus Only


Enjoy.
-Matt

Hey guys, this projector sounds sweet! Unfortunately, I am extremely sensitive to the RBE and can easily see it on any 1-chip projector. But here is a great test to see if you can see RBE on any projector.

Use any THX certified DVD an go into its Optimode test patterns. Sequence through them until you reach the aspect ratio tests. Now just move your eyes from side to side of the screen repeatedly. If the white circle doesn't break up and trail RGB circles, you will never see the RBE on that projector. I tried this test on a friend who had never seen the RBE before (and thought I was crazy) and even he could see it now. And it really, really works!

I'm surprised no decided to look at the pdf spec sheet on Mits' site! :cool:

Note my emphasis. It has a 5 segment Color Wheel (R/G/B/W/Y) with a white and a yellow segment. This sounds similar to the NEC 500 something or other...

EDIT: It was the NEC HT510 I was thinking of. It does have the same RGBWY 5-segment wheel but it only spins at 2x :(
NEC HT-510 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/NEC-HT510.htm)


I already pointed out that this has a white segment and I got the information from that very same PDF. You can pretty much count on a white segment when talking about very bright single chip DLPs. Again we all know that we will give up performance to get the brightness....The only way around this is to fork over $15K or more for a bright 3 chipper and most of us don't have that kind of money to throw at a projector.

The big outstanding question is the colorwheel speed.

This platform is really amazing at this price point - motorized everything, detachable lens, relatively small.

What they need now are optional DMD's. You just pick what you want WXGA, SXGA+, 720P, 1080P.

Ken

I tried this test on a friend who had never seen the RBE before (and thought I was crazy) and even he could see it now.

Most people out side this forum have no trouble nore know anything about RBE. Proof, DLP TVs sell in large qty across the US every day in stores with no complaints.
Almost everything will have some sort of shortcoming if you go looking for it. I love my Ruby but the other day I pointed out how much softer Lcos is to DLP because of slower MTF and showed the brightness compression due to the iris and miss convergence and now hes upset I showed him this. He now prefers DLP 1 chip.

Alan,

Would you buy a DLP projector with a 2X color wheel?

IB

How big was the screen you saw it on?
Not sure... I have a 180" diagonal and the one they were showing it on was clearly much. much larger than that. Figure well above 200" to 250"...

OK, here's my promised update. I just came back from LA visiting at a friend's house that has a DaLite High Power 156" Diagonal 16x9 screen with a Mitsubishi HD4000U (with a 2x color wheel) as I was curious to compare his machine to the WD2000U. Views on BOTH PJs' and my opinions are based on the same 1080p QuickTime trailers downloaded from the Apple's Website that I used to compare both machines. Here are my observations:

- THESE ARE NOT THE SAME MACHINES, BEING JUST THE WD2000U A HIGHER OUTPUT MACHINE WITH A LARGER BULB THAN THE HD4000U. NO. NIGHT AND DAY.
- The WD2000U is a much larger unit built in a rugged casing.
- The connections block on the back is totally different meaning, at least side motherboards inside the unit are also different.
- The size of the optics is much larger on the WD2000U than on the HD4000U and they seem of a very different quality all-together. Aside from featuring lens shifting, being larger in diameter and a bit faster (bigger aperture means more native light output thru them to start with no matter the light engine block and the power on the bulb), the most important issue is that I found the lens on the HD4000U to be of dramatically low quality. Unlike when I walked to the screen and stood a couple of inches away from it when watching the WD2000U that was DEAD ON SHARP with positively no signs of softness or color aberrations, the same thing on the HD4000U proved quite differently. There is a purple ringing and slight softness to the image that you cannot get into perfect focus no matter what. Five feet and more away from the screen, this tends to vanish of course but it is an indication that the optics quality between the two units are two different worlds. To me this matters a lot. Just as I am fairly insensitive to RBE, I cannot stand panel misconvergence issues, soft focus, poor optics or brightness uniformity issues... I will touch all of these below:
- Next, the most important issue. RBE. It was CLEARLY ON MY FACE on the HD4000U. However, I could not get it to bother me on the WD2000U when I tried to see it really hard. So, whether this means the HD4000U's color wheel rotates slower than the WH2000U I have no clue. What I do know is that these two projectors as far as RBE do NOT look the same.
- Finally, CR, Color and General Performance: First of all, it is important the everyone understands that the implementation of White Segments on Color wheels and TI's BrilliantColor are not the same for every projector's design, and that data and "HT" machines have different take-offs on both blueprints.

The BrilliantColor and mode settings on the WD4000U and WD2000U are completely different. So are the menus. Totally different all-together.

While on the HD4000U BrilliantColor can be widely turned on or off via menu controls, on the WD2000U its integrated as part of the mode's settings. The HD4000U had 117 hours on the bulb, while the WD2000U almost 400. Brightness between he two was NIGHT AND DAY. The specs say a difference of 1000 lumens, that, one can initially attribute to both a larger bulb and faster lens on the WD2000U but the real world told me another story. On a much larger screen, doubtfully with the same gain as the High Power DaLite and with more hours on the bulb, the brightness on the WD2000U was vastly, vastly superior (I compare this after quickly having calibrated both machines to a quick good color fix, no white clippings and other things that can severely impair better image quality in exchange for maximum brightness). So this is really good news.

Continuing, while low and high power light modes had a large impact on the HD4000U, it did not so much on the WD2000U, that on IS VASTLY QUIETER than its HD4000U brother with much more light output. Again, this is great news. I noticed all the fans on the HD4000U to be smaller and rotating faster at a higher pitch while on the WD2000U they were larger and rotated clearly slower taking advantage of the overall larger size of the unit itself.

Also, the effect of BrilliantColor on color saturation and mid-tone values is somewhat noticeable on the HD4000U specially on yellows, but not so on the WD2000U. I remember toggling back and forth between the bright and theater/high contrast modes, and colors stayed locked and well saturated. I have a clear opinion that while the HD4000U's implementation is tweaked to optimize data display, the WD2000U is tuned for large screens HTs/ large venues environments and so does BrilliantColor's integration, designed for optimum home theater needing high light output. This is further clear to me by evidently seeing some dithering in mid and high tones on the HD4000U and having not noticed them at all on the WD2000U.

Finally, brightness uniformity and color. Brightness uniformity was a total joke on the HD4000U with a clear hot spot on the center and dimmed areas on the corners (specially on the lower right side) while uniformity was impeccable to the eye on the WD2000U when viewing a blank white image. Maybe the HD4000U had poor alignment on the bulb or maybe it was a one-off unit with this issue, but, it was very apparent. And to conclude, Color: with all BrilliantColor enhancements off, and calibrated to the eye as best I could within the few minutes I dedicated to the test, the HD4000U was overall OK but it never gave me the same punch while it was fairly dim by the time I thought it was good for my humble movie watching taste. On the WD2000U, it was a different story. I felt the colors to be more solid, CR greatly more gracious and solid, mid-tones and shadow detail much more defined, all of it, while still having near-blinding brightness at hand to largely spare, even after I quickly calibrated it for the best color and within the theatre/low power/high contrast mode. I end with a more generic observation and that is, that the overall sharpness of the HD4000U is no match for the cut-throat crispness of the WD2000U. Maybe its "just" the lens, maybe better software, maybe a better internal scaler, maybe its the video card used on the PC's feeding the content (I have no clue what was on the PC connected to the WD2000U while I know it was a new NVidia 7900 feeding the HD4000U), but, whatever it is, DVI to DVI, fed the very same 1080p signal (internally downcoverted by the PJ to 720p) and watching exactely the exact same content bit-by-bit (The DaVinci Code, King Kong and V for Vendetta Trailers), the WD2000U is a V8 engine and the HD4000U a superchaged 4 cylinder :)

So that's it. I hope I didn't bore anyone with this comparative mini-review. I tried my best to be both impartial and recalling the image on the WD2000U on my mind as of 3 days ago with the ones of the HD4000U, today. I am now, double excited about the WD2000U, because when compared to the HD4000U, I can only say, we are definitely NOT talking about the same category product. Thoroughly different beasts. The WD2000U seems to be a much more solid product, coupled with features at hand I cannot live without, quality components, optics to match and enough light output to both calibrate it to death without fears of dimming results, and, VERY IMPORTANT, giving us a large grace period of available light on screen, even as the hours mount as the bulb starts aging. The WD2000U is a pro-built product and light-wise, a machine with enough horsepower to endure the test of the hours adding up as you use it. Based on current bulb designs that as we all know is fairly flawed and hit us invariable with a quick reduction of output within the first few hundred hours of usage, I feel to be a blessing to have a product that comes out of the box with light to spare, that 1000 hours or more down the road, can still be calibrated to the spark it had out of the box as far as lumens are concerned. And all of this at a price that cannot be matched by anything else on the market. I cannot think of a better "fairly-disposable" machine that I can happily live with it till the ridiculous prices of the new 1080p kids on the block become realistic.

Alan, when can I get mine? :)

Thanks a bunch for the leg work...I am in! Tell me where and when and I will jump on the band wagon; everthing that I have read and heard confirms that the WD2000u is a great choice at an awsome price.

Ok, I'm sold. Where can I get one?

Or maybe I should wait til I see the Cinetron 1080p LCOS projector this weekend...

:D

regards,

Li On

PS: btw, I need the short throw lens on the Mit. Does the mentioned price includes the option?

Most people out side this forum have no trouble nore know anything about RBE. Proof, DLP TVs sell in large qty across the US every day in stores with no complaints.
Almost everything will have some sort of shortcoming if you go looking for it. I love my Ruby but the other day I pointed out how much softer Lcos is to DLP because of slower MTF and showed the brightness compression due to the iris and miss convergence and now hes upset I showed him this. He now prefers DLP 1 chip.
This is true, but I can still see the RBE even on RP DLP sets in a fully lit room without even trying! Granted this only happens during dark scenes with bright highlights but like I said, I'm extremely sensitive, more so than anyone I know. I so wish I wasn't though. It would make my choices for a projo much more affordable!
And you're also right that that even the best (affordable) projectors have some noticeable flaws. I think 1-chippers have the greatest potential in the HT arena but their biggest limitation in their colorwheel. Not just because of the RBE but also because of dithering and difficulty sinking with 24p signals. I'm very curious to see if LEDs can be used as a light source in front projectors because they would solve all these problems.....but probably introduce a whole set of new ones! :o

It sounds like this pj would allow one to use the Stewart Firehawk screen (rather than a high gain screen like the HighPower), say 123" or 135" diag, and have the 'best of both worlds'; i.e., the pj is bright enough that one doesn't give up a super bright pic with a gray screen, and also the FH enhances the resolution of dark scenes (better than the HighPower would do) and also does a good job of ambient light rejection. Does this make sense? Or would want even the additonal brightness that the HP would give?

Does the WD2000U only have a 2X color wheel like the Mitsubishi HD4000U? If so, that would be a deal killer for most HT buyers.

IB

This looks like a potentially great projector...I contacted Mitsubishi through their website last night and they just responded...it's a 4X color wheel.

Here's their web page if someone didn't see it (it's a little cumbersome to find): http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/proj_wd2000u.asp

A powerbuy would be a great idea!

Harry

This looks like a potentially great projector...I contacted Mitsubishi through their website last night and they just responded...it's a 4X color wheel.

Here's their web page if someone didn't see it (it's a little cumbersome to find): http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/proj_wd2000u.asp

A powerbuy would be a great idea!

Harry


Funny, but I wrote them several days ago and have gotten no response at all. I hope your note was correct and that it does have a 4X wheel.

IB

Does anyone have some screen suggestions to match this PJ? I currently have a Goo Systems setup that is in a 4:3 format and I would like to get a fixed screen to match the WD2000u, high power lumens to maximize day viewing events.

This looks like a potentially great projector...I contacted Mitsubishi through their website last night and they just responded...it's a 4X color wheel.Somebody on this forum just loaned me stuff some they put together that allows me to measure colorwheel speeds (or calculate them after some measurements). I don't have one of these projectors, but if I did (or if somebody near Seattle wanted to bring one over), I could measure it.

--Darin

Does anyone have some screen suggestions to match this PJ? I currently have a Goo Systems setup that is in a 4:3 format and I would like to get a fixed screen to match the WD2000u, high power lumens to maximize day viewing events.

Check out the screens forum, but the usual suspects would include:

Vutec Silverstar
Da-Lite Highpower
DNP Supernova

All of these have substantial gain. Choosing between them depends primarily on your room setup. There's no such thing as too bright when fighting ambient light.

All of these have substantial gain. Choosing between them depends primarily on your room setup. There's no such thing as too bright when fighting ambient light.I would pretty much agree with that for the projector, but it doesn't really apply to the screen. In other words, more lumens will help overcome light other than that originating from the projector, but more ft-lamberts doesn't necessarily. That is why a gray screen can be useful in situations with ambient light (especially for those who don't want super bright images just because they have lights on or coming in).

--Darin

There's no such thing as too bright when fighting ambient light.

Is this really true (I really don't know). E.g., if you get ~50 ftL with a Firehawk (gain 1.25), then you would get ~112 with a Highpower (gain 2.8). But the FH is supposedly better at rejecting ambient light (and also would get better dark levels when you DO have the room dark), so is having 112 ftL really better than having 50 with these extra benefits of the FH? (Of course the FH costs more than 2x as much, but let's leave that out of consideration for the present.)

This looks like a potentially great projector...I contacted Mitsubishi through their website last night and they just responded...it's a 4X color wheel.
All makes sense. It justified why I clearly saw RBE on the HD4000U and it was not noticeable on the WD2000U. This is one heck of a machine, and, like I posted early, clearly not targeted for data like the HD4000U, but for HT use :)

Judging by the killer brightness of this unit, I would clearly recommend a low gain/high contrast screen, over a high gain. A high gain screen for this PJ is an overkill as it has enough light to spare, and then, some more. A high contrast screen will be the ideal match to get the maximum punch and depth out of it.

Funny, but I wrote them several days ago and have gotten no response at all. I hope your note was correct and that it does have a 4X wheel.

IB


Here's the entire text of the email from the Mitsu rep who replied to my question:

"Thank you for contacting us regarding our newest projector, I have attached the information you requested. The color wheel on this models spins at a 4x. I will have one of my dealer in your area get in touch with you in regards to pricing via email as I do not sell anything directly. If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to get back in touch with me Monday thru Friday from 8:30 am until 5:00 pm ET and I would be happy to help. You can also visit our website at www.mitsubishi-presentations.com for more information on products, promotions and accessories."

The WD2000U pdf was attached (available on the website referenced in my earlier post).

H

As a projo N00b, could someone tell me if the offset will fit my situation? The projector will be located ~ 12" from the ceiling with the top of the 96" diag screen also at ~ 12" from the ceiling.

Thanks

As a projo N00b, could someone tell me if the offset will fit my situation? The projector will be located ~ 12" from the ceiling with the top of the 96" diag screen also at ~ 12" from the ceiling.

Thanks

Based on the brochure, you should not have any problem as this projector has vertical lens shift. From your proj's location relative to the screen, you should have some flexible room to move the image up and down.

FYI,

The brochure and manual PDFs can be downloaded from their website

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/resources_doclibrary.asp

I would pretty much agree with that for the projector, but it doesn't really apply to the screen. In other words, more lumens will help overcome light other than that originating from the projector, but more ft-lamberts doesn't necessarily. That is why a gray screen can be useful in situations with ambient light (especially for those who don't want super bright images just because they have lights on or coming in).

--Darin

Not necessarily, but it's often useful, again depending on the room setup. Doesn't the nature of gain help reject ambient light? Say you're using a High Power. The projector is just over your shoulder and the ambient light is from sconces on the wall. The gain for the projected light would be ~2.8 while the gain for he ambient light would be much lower. Isin't that the entire principal behind the DNP Supernova? I agree that a gray screen is also of benefit and probably should've included the Firehawk, but it was just a quick post to give the OP something to search for in the screens forum. My comment about never too bright boils down to this: don't rule out a high gain screen just because you have a bright projector. Several of our cohorts are using high gain screens with bright projectors with great satisfaction. If I remember Free (Phil) was using a Silverstar with a Panasonic 7000 projector outputting 6000/3000 lumens(!) with 2/1 bulbs.

Not necessarily, but it's often useful, again depending on the room setup. Doesn't the nature of gain help reject ambient light? Say you're using a High Power. The projector is just over your shoulder and the ambient light is from sconces on the wall. The gain for the projected light would be ~2.8 while the gain for he ambient light would be much lower. Isin't that the entire principal behind the DNP Supernova?Yes. That helps the actual CRs with lights on or coming in as well ANSI CR from reducing the effect of reflections off the walls when the user is in the right spot. Then gray can help the actual ANSI CR from reflections and also keep the ft-lamberts in a lower range which some will prefer even with lights on or coming in. The Optoma GrayWolf I and II basically combine that directional effect of the High Power with a gray layer (although it unfortunately comes with a visible pattern to many of us in this case). The Firehawk combines the directional effect of a fairly high gain angular-reflective layer with a gray layer and is one reason it has been recommended for many situations with ambient light issues. In other words you can still get that directional advantage you mentioned with a screen that isn't super bright overall when it also uses a gray layer.

You are right that some just love super bright images (although one of them found extra artifacts that are the reason many of us want to stay away from super bright images most of the time). Wanting super bright doesn't apply to everybody and if a person wanted say 30 ft-lamberts when there are lights on or coming in, if they started with a super bright projector and a high gain screen they would have to dim things down to get to where they wanted. But dimming the projector (like with a neutral density filter) would lower their actual CRs off the screen since lumens are the way to fight lights on or coming in. Dimming with a gray layer in the screen still allows the lumens to overcome those lights by killing some of the the projected light to the point where the images have comfortable brightness as well as reducing the other lighting bouncing off the screen.

Hope that makes some sense.

--Darin

Thanks op for the heads up on this new pj. The wd2000 might be a worthy replacement for my aging 13hd(sanyo plv-60 clone).

I wonder how the wd2000u would stack up against the Epson Pro Cinema 800/600 lcd pj? The wd2000 is a good bit brighter and I wonder how black levels/constrast would pan out in real world viewing? Specs wise, the Epson is better at 5000:1 compared to 2000:1 for the wd2000u...but seeing how the Epson is lcd, I wonder if these pj's will be as far apart as the constrast specs suggest?

I'm just glad to see a few nice newer technology pj's with good amounts of lumens for those of us who run larger screens. :D Till recently...Sanyo has had this segment covered with their plv-60,70 and now 80.

Thanks op for the heads up on this new PJ. The wd2000 might be a worthy replacement for my aging 13hd(Sanyo plv-60 clone).You will be in HT heaven :)

I wonder how the wd2000u would stack up against the Epson Pro Cinema 800/600 LCD PJ? The wd2000 is a good bit brighter and I wonder how black levels/contrast would pan out in real world viewing? Specs wise, the Epson is better at 5000:1 compared to 2000:1 for the wd2000u...but seeing how the Epson is LCD, I wonder if these PJ's will be as far apart as the contrast specs suggest?The wd2000u against the Epson Pro Cinema 800/600 LCD PJ is night and day. I had a TW600 for a while and though bright, I thought (as usual with LCD technology) it was a sub-product. The quality of the optics was mediocre with slight off-set focus on the corners and color aberration, white clipping and green color over saturation would happen immediately if whites were too strong, I had 3 dead pixels out of the box, the auto-iris was a joke and the only way to get colors and sharpness under control while having CR realistically at around 1500:1 (higher brightness settings would take away all fine detail) was with the unit calibrated at under 400 lumens. LCD, as it is (D5 panels) has nowhere to go no matter what people that love it say. The wd2000u is a world-apart as far as brightness goes while maintaining locked-on edge to edge sharpness no matter what you do with it. Also, you can have extremely good perceivable CR even at higher light output settings. I have seen a lo of LCD and DLP (both single and 3 chippers) PJs in recent times and nothing comes close to the wd2000u in performance, except maybe the Christie DW30, that costs about 5 times the price and, being a PD clone, can only achieve proper CR under very low light output settings. There is nothing like the Mitsu wd2000u out there. Period. I am getting 3 of them. One for my home HT and two for my screening rooms at my Production Co. in LA. Its that good. Plus, for the price of 3 PJs, I get more performance than the closest competitors would cost me for one. Suddenly, I don't even care about 1080p machines anymore. After seeing the type of performance this unit can give at this price range in screens over 200" in size, I will only be interested in 1080p technology when a unit comes along with this level of performance and features at this price range (maybe even from Mitsubishi in a couple years or so). Stay 5 to 7 feet away from the screen and you'll never see enough SDE to bother you or justify spending $30.000 to get the same level of performance with a 1080p machine as they are coming out with the level of features the wd2000u gives you in the 3 grand price range. With the money you can save with a wd2000u, you can couple it with a really good external scaler (that's what I am doing) and have a killer, killer setup you can live very well for the next couple years :)

I wonder how the wd2000u would stack up against the Epson Pro Cinema 800/600 lcd pj? The wd2000 is a good bit brighter and I wonder how black levels/constrast would pan out in real world viewing? Specs wise, the Epson is better at 5000:1 compared to 2000:1 for the wd2000u...but seeing how the Epson is lcd, I wonder if these pj's will be as far apart as the constrast specs suggest?


I agree with liebkid that you can't compare the CR advertised through the use of an IRIS on an LCD to the CR of DLP with out the IRIS. I have stated my opinion many times on the IRIS issue and I simply am not a fan of the IRIS. I have not seen the Epson but I know from the reviews that once the projector is calibrated to maximize CR that you are around 300 lumens which is simply unwatchable for me, (that is about the same as my HS-51 calibrated for maximum CR). The maximum lumens they get out of the Epson is about 900 measured ansi lumens according to projector central. Regardless of what you may think about projector central it is good to use as a measure of comparison from one review to the other. With that, they also did a review on the Mits HD4000U and that put out around 1500 measured ansi lumens in the brightest mode if I remember correctly. The HD2000U should put out over 2000 measured ansi lumens I will bet. I would also not be surprised to see something close to 1000 measured ansi lumens when calibrated out of the HD2000U based on the specs and what I am hearing.

So what calibrated lumen should one expect from the wd2000 in low power mode? The idea of having plenty of light and 5000 hour bulb life along with a quiet fan would be a dream come true for plv-60 user such as myself.

Fan noise and poor contrast/black levels are the major knocks on the plv family of pj's. My plv-60 is no exception. It's pretty loud and the blacks are more gray than black. But I guess that goes with the high brightness lcd territory.

Right now my diy screen is a silverish/gray paint(similar to mudd mix low lumen) and is 16x9 118" diagonal. I'm wanting to step up to a Carada 126" bw. Even though carada says the bw is like 1.4 gain... I didn't notice any difference compared to my silver/gray paint so I call it 1.0 or there abouts.

From my brief (visual) experience with the WD2000U I am shootimg for a realistic 1500 to 2000 lumens calibrated on high power and 1000 to 1250 on low power. Even on low power after a quick calibration with no visible white clipping and a smooth grayscale gradation using the PJ's built-in test pattern, on a 200"plus screen, this thing was B R I G H T. And that is with literally no audible noise... killer... Contrast (at any setting, even on high brightness presentation mode) will literally be night an day when compared to a PLV-60... we are talking dark ages vs. "as good as 1-chip DLP gets" right now (with no tricks, irises, flags and bull like that).

how is the black level compared to optoma hd79? or Ruby? thanks.

how is the black level compared to Optoma hd79? or Ruby? thanks.I never saw the Ruby so I cannot comment on it. As for the H79 (which I haven't seen either, I can say it looks as good or better than an H78 which I have seen a few times. That was actually what got me excited initially... the fact that at ultra-high brightness I though I was (easily) looking at an H78. One of the ways I use to see black levels is simply to view native 2.35:1 material as it naturally shows the bottom and top black bands from native 16:9 machines. On the content I say, the black bands were near pitch black and, being the fact this is an extremely high brightness projector, without any irises to compensate at anytime for "perceivable" better blacks, it impressed me thoroughly.

I have a BenQ PE8720 which despite all the hype is a great PJ but not much better than H78 when calibrated (also, very dim by the time you get it calibrated). I have had a tought time getting the colors right on it and found claimed contrast to be an absolutely ridiculous figure (even with the auto-iris on that introdues all types of artifacts)... it's realistically about 1.4 of that, best scenario, which for most use (a small screen on the kids room) looks damn good. I will do a side-by-side comparising mini-review when I get my WD2000U in.

Where is all this info coming from??
I called distributor for Mitsubishi and they didn't even know pricing and said availability is still unkown.
How did this university get their hands on this thing?

Where is all this info coming from??
I called distributor for Mitsubishi and they didn't even know pricing and said availability is still unkown. How did this university get their hands on this thing?A sponsored event, and, to the best of my knowledge, a demo unit. As for availability there are already 2 places I found shipping them within the next 2 weeks. If you want their link, PM me.

Has anyone else seen the WD2000U in person besides liebkid? I am curious if others have the same feedback on this projector. I am especially interested in this projector versus the Samsung H710AE. I am in the midst of the purchase process to replace my Sanyo PLV-60 (CCR30/ND SMART calibrated).

I'm calling Mit for the detail as I found a full page adv in a local weekly computer magazine about the Mit 2000!

regards,

Li On

I have a BenQ PE8720
(even with the auto-iris on that introdues all types of artifacts)...

There is no auto Iris with the 8720, fwiw.

Rick

There is no auto Iris with the 8720, fwiw.RickSorry but there is on my machine and according to BenQ, the manufacturer:

http://www.benq.com/products/Projector/?product=601

"...Advanced Continuous Auto Iris utilizes a variable lens aperture that increases contrast performance and optimizes light intensity for bright and dark scenes..."

Sorry but there is on my machine and according to BenQ, the manufacturer:

http://www.benq.com/products/Projector/?product=601

"...Advanced Continuous Auto Iris utilizes a variable lens aperture that increases contrast performance and optimizes light intensity for bright and dark scenes..."


From what can find on that page, the quote you listed has been edited to add the word "auto".

The actual quote is "Advanced Continuous Electronic Iris utilizes a variable lens aperture that increases..."

Not really trying to get into a pissing contest here, but the 8720's iris is indeed variable, but it is not automatic. I own one of these projectors also, and like it alot, it just doen't have an auto iris and I don't feel like you should be editing quotes from web pages to try and prove it does.

Rick

I know Mitsubishi will be showing the WD2000U at Infocomm next month here in Orlando. I have got to check this thing out in person. I've never been to one of these conferences before. Will they let "regular" people like me in who has no affiliation with the HT industry as long as I pay the entrance fee?

is possible to link a shop for this vpr ?

http://www.allprojectors.com/acb/stores/newstore/Products/Projectors/product_specs.aspx?SID=1&Category_ID=49&Product_ID=828

If is's not possible , apologize me and I'll clear it

Luca

There is also a DC3 chip model XD2000u but its xvga I think, I wonder why Mitsubishi did not use this chip on WD2000u..

From what can find on that page, the quote you listed has been edited to add the word "auto".

The actual quote is "Advanced Continuous Electronic Iris utilizes a variable lens aperture that increases..."

Not really trying to get into a pissing contest here, but the 8720's iris is indeed variable, but it is not automatic. I own one of these projectors also, and like it alot, it just doen't have an auto iris and I don't feel like you should be editing quotes from web pages to try and prove it does.

Rick
Not really trying to "edit" anything against what's stated on their website otherwise I would have not posted the link. If the word "electronic" for you is doesn't spell "automatic" for you then I guess you have a remote control for your PJ than "manually" controls "electronically" the PJ's iris. When the obvious is obvious I don't even understand what's the point of rhetorics, but whatever. Its all good :)

Upon further investigation it does appear that the HD2000u and HD1000u XGA models may be Dark Chip 3. The Brochure clearly says DC3 where as the WD2000u clearly says DC2. For standard definition dvd the HD2000u might be a better option. From what I've read DC3 has better contrast and less SDE.

is possible to link a shop for this vpr ?

http://www.allprojectors.com/acb/stores/newstore/Products/Projectors/product_specs.aspx?SID=1&Category_ID=49&Product_ID=828

If is's not possible , apologize me and I'll clear it

Luca


They are trying to sell it for 40 bucks ABOVE full MSRP.

IB

They are trying to sell it for 40 bucks ABOVE full MSRP.

IB


3995 ------------3389

That is not the quote they gave me!

IB

That is not the quote they gave me!

IB
Add it to your cart to get the mentioned price.

Bulb price is $513.00

Upon further investigation it does appear that the HD2000u and HD1000u XGA models may be Dark Chip 3. The Brochure clearly says DC3 where as the WD2000u clearly says DC2. For standard definition dvd the HD2000u might be a better option. From what I've read DC3 has better contrast and less SDE.

Isn't the highly regarded Samsung 710 dc2 as well? From what I've read a really well factory tweaked DC2 pj like the 710 can surpass some dc3 pj's in picture quality. I wonder how much tweak time Mits put into the wd2000u?

Liebkid,
Do you think I can pair this PJ with carada HCG .8 gain 136" diag 235:1 screen and prismasonic lens? I will have a light controlled room. Thanks.

Liebkid,
Do you think I can pair this PJ with carada HCG .8 gain 136" diag 235:1 screen and prismasonic lens? I will have a light controlled room. Thanks.Hi retret. I'd say the Carada HCG screen is a great choice for the machine, as I saw it in a much larger screen than that (most of the time on low power) and it was bright as hell. You'll have more than enough light to spare with a 136" diag screen to calibrate the machine to spec and not compromise on available light :)

FYI, I'll be using mine on a custom Grayhack that is 198" diag (totally dark room nonetheless) and plan on having the PJ fully calibrated in low power mode and never think twice if its lit enough... I am curious as to gathering people's views on this PJ as they get set up in everyone's homes and compared to whatever else is out there within its price range...

If the word "electronic" for you is doesn't spell "automatic" for you then I guess you have a remote control for your PJ than "manually" controls "electronically" the PJ's iris. When the obvious is obvious I don't even understand what's the point of rhetorics, but whatever. Its all good :)

Manual electronic control of the iris setting is a totally different animal than an auto iris that is controlled by the projector such as what's in the Ruby. No rhetoric, just two totally different things.
Anyway, your right, enough of this. Back to discussion about the WD2000U which sounds very promising.

Rick

Hi retret. I'd say the Carada HCG screen is a great choice for the machine, as I saw it in a much larger screen than that (most of the time on low power) and it was bright as hell. You'll have more than enough light to spare with a 136" diag screen to calibrate the machine to spec and not compromise on available light :)

FYI, I'll be using mine on a custom Grayhack that is 198" diag (totally dark room nonetheless) and plan on having the PJ fully calibrated in low power mode and never think twice if its lit enough...

I will make a few phone calls tomorrow to see (in reality) when is the soonest any dealer will have this machine for (actual) shipment and post my findings here. Who ever gets it first needs to do a full review for the rest of us here... I am curious as to gathering people's views on this PJ as they get set up in everyone's homes and compared to whatever else is out there within its price range...

Please write a review once you have your screen setup, also please comment on SDE with that screen size..

just a reminder to all that want to discuss pricing, it is one way to get this thread locked. I really do not want that to happen. To all that are looking for a price of an on-line retailer, I went to Mitsubishi's website and clicked on thier list of "authorized" on-line retailers, then emailed a few and got some good prices, definitely less then MSRP. Just do your homework and you will save some $$$$'s.

Isn't the highly regarded Samsung 710 dc2 as well? From what I've read a really well factory tweaked DC2 pj like the 710 can surpass some dc3 pj's in picture quality. I wonder how much tweak time Mits put into the wd2000u?

I would agree with that. The Samsung actually has below average specs and yet is considered one of the best single chip dlp's around. There is obviously alot more to a projectors performance than specifications. If you go on the brochure and specs both the WD2000u and HD2000u appear to be identical with the exception of the dlp chip being WXGA 16:9 DC2 vs XGA 4:3 DC3. If this is the case the HD2000u should be better for SD dvd given that DC3 has better contrast and better fill factor(less SDE). They both have a high speed 5 segment color wheel. I would assume high speed means more than 2x. That said I wouldn't be surprised if the WD2000u has been tweaked for home theatre and has a faster color wheel than the HD2000u.

I just ordered the prismasonic and hopefully this projector will be more cheaper in the next 2 months. I plan to get this one with the 2.1-2.9 long throw lens to help minimize barrel distortion..

Is a group buy possible for this projector?

I don't think TVA carries Mitsubishi products.

Just wondering...will the wd2000u take hd video through it's vga port.
Some pj's will take some video and some like my plv-60 clone will not. If so...will it take component hd via a simple component to vga cable?

Never mind the above question. I found out in the online manual that it will accept component video through the vga port. :)

Am I imagining things, or did the MRSP as listed on pjc just jump from $3995 to $5995 today? Did someone at Mits make a big pricing mistake before release?

Jonathan

:) I don't want to get busted for talking about prices and getting this string shut down, but I don't think you are correct. I have talked with a few individuals who have quoted me much lower price of the WD2000u...If you search around you will find the pricing all over the board, some of which is totally ridiculous.

Hi Bigworm,

I wasn't trying to get street pricing. After I read this thread yesterday, I looked at pjc and 'thought' I saw the former MSR price, then, tonight I looked again and saw the latter MSR price. Just was wondering if I was imagining things!


Jonathan

No worries, I didn't mean to come off wrong...PM when you have time and I can share some of the locations and availability that I have found on this machine...

Hi Bigworm,

I wasn't trying to get street pricing. After I read this thread yesterday, I looked at pjc and 'thought' I saw the former MSR price, then, tonight I looked again and saw the latter MSR price. Just was wondering if I was imagining things!


Jonathan

I see what you mean, if go to the Mits website and drill down to the WD2000U and click buy now you will see that both of the retailers listed: DLP Store and Projector People have the projector listed at $5995 as the retail price.

I hope this is a mistake......uhhg

The official Mitsubishi press release http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pr_042806_wd2000u.asp clearly states that the MSRP is $3995. This is a great price for a projector with all the features that it has, nothing in this price range with the same features spec. The SX60 is $5995 retail which I would put at its closest competitor, and that doesn't have motorized lens shift.

well, I guess we'll see what Mits says. If they continue with the original MSRP, they may have a runaway success if liebkids review is anywhere close to the mark, which I have no reason to doubt. My company is exhibiting at Infocomm in the next couple of weeks, so I'll get a chance to look at it.

If they change the MSRP, and street price upwards 2k, then they're competing with the established PLV80 and others. Maybe a very fair fight, but not the knockdown they could get by maintaining a very low MSRP.

Jonathan

Check out www.projectorcenter.com they are selling the WD2000u and both HD2000u/HD1000u. The WD2000u retails for 6K selling for 4k. The HD models are more expensive.

Head to Head comparison on the WD2000U and the HC3000U Anyone?

Head to head comparison on the WD2000U and the HC3000U Anyone?

How does this compare in performance to the Mits HC3000U.

The HC3000U had great reviews (MSRP 2499) and was the Home theater designed unit.

The HD4000 even though it was released later was designed for presentations, not home theater and was not the upgraded version of the HC3000U even though the model numbers were similar and many assumed the HD4000 was a later version of the HC3000. The HD4000 review from AVS reviewed it as a Home theater unit.

Anyone seen the HC3000U and the WD2000?

WD2000U will be at infoComm06 in Orlando. Anyone going?

See link: http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/avcat/ctl2861/index.cfm/mlc_id/665/SID/15846753/pin_id/2861/SUBCATID/131649.htm

Note that this is the only projector listed under a category called "Digital Cinema DLP Projectors". That is interesting.

I plan to be there! ....as long as they welcome those who are not in the industry. I've never been to one of these conferences before. I plan to attend specifically to see the WD2000!

Hi dangc,

My company ( not HT related ) is exhibiting at Infocomm, and Mits is only a few booths away from us, so yes, I'm going to be spending some quality time there.

Steeee, I'm pretty sure you can buy exhibits-only passes at the registration desk. You can also register in advance for a 1 day exhibits-only pass.

Infocomm registration (http://infocomm06.expoexchange.com/content/Attendees/regopts.asp)

Jonathan

Hi dangc,

My company ( not HT related ) is exhibiting at Infocomm, and Mits is only a few booths away from us, so yes, I'm going to be spending some quality time there.

Steeee, I'm pretty sure you can buy exhibits-only passes at the registration desk. You can also register in advance for a 1 day exhibits-only pass.

Infocomm registration (http://infocomm06.expoexchange.com/content/Attendees/regopts.asp)

Jonathan


Great! I look forward to your evaluation. I hope they have it setup so you can get a good look at it in different environments, such as dark room and ambient light conditions. See if you can get some definitive information on the MSRP too if you can.

By the way, are you sensitive to the RBE? Look for that too, and I would like to know if this does in fact have a 4x color wheel.

Thanks! This is an exciting projector for a number of us, I know I monitor this thread closely.

Have Fun!

Dan

Is this model actually shipping now? Anyone got one?

I'm in Hong Kong and the local Mit office said the model has not yet be lanuched in Japan so they don't have it. The 4:3 version XD2000 is shipping though.

regards,

Li On

you can get this now if you google it, I just ordered one with free shipping ;)

What kind of price would constitute a group buy. Under $34 ?

What kind of price would constitute a group buy. Under $34 ?

Alan,

FYI, some online authorized dealers are already selling for under 3.4K with free shipping. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by saying this.

Thats what I need to know. How is $3200 with shipping. Im sure I can beat any price but I have no idea where you guys are at. PM me. I may also be a little late to the table:(

you can get this now if you google it, I just ordered one with free shipping ;)

Did the retailer have the item in stock? Let us know when you receive the projector and please provide some feedback on your impressions of the unit.

Did the retailer have the item in stock? Let us know when you receive the projector and please provide some feedback on your impressions of the unit.

I will if I receive it, it did not say out of stock so will see..

Projectorcentral requested a review sample and will have it shortly.

Is this model actually shipping now? Anyone got one?

I'm in Hong Kong and the local Mit office said the model has not yet be lanuched in Japan so they don't have it. The 4:3 version XD2000 is shipping though.

regards,

Li On

Li On: the person u spoke to must have had no idea of what u r talking abt. The PJ is already on display in Singapore and they are usually *after* HK. They have it, for sure.

So you seen it? Any comment?

I'll ask Mit again!

regards,

Li On

For what it's worth, Mits Canada doesn't have any info on it yet either. Perhaps it was launched in the US only. The Canadian dealers say they should have info at the end of May.

Jonathan

I talked to someone at Mitsu today and the PJ has been available since the beginning of the month in very limited quantities in the US to be launched officially in higher volumes AFTER Infocomm. Mitsu America has no clue if the PJ is or not released in Canada or anywhere outside the US. The US is their business region and that is what they know or comment about. Also, I was told this PJs main targeted sales is indeed the US, where there is both high volume demand for large venue Cinema Applications at a breakthrough price point, and high brightness demands for high-end Home Theatres users. As for the MSRP I was clearly told its the one posted on their official press release of $3995. That is the targeted price to aggressively compete with similar offerings of other brands. Any spec'ed MSRPs higher than that is not true and might only reflect an overstatement of the sellers to try and market it for more money. I believe, this is not a huge money-maker for them because clearly it is a unit with a "combat" pricing where profit margins are small so everyone will try to make the extra buck and, I cannot blame them if this proves to be a hot selling item. Let's face it, there is nothing in its price range, or double its price range anywhere and everyone knows that if this unit is a commercial success, from now on selling feature-full high-brightness one-chip WXGA projectors for over $4K is over. This machine is a new benchmark in feature/price/performance, and it is really, really good news to all end-users. A year ago for this class machine like a PD Action M3 it was over $15K (or at least $7K for a dated sub-performing "brightness-comparable" LCD machine like the PLV-70). This is really great news.

liebkid,

Good to see a comparison to the 8720. By chance, have you seen the Samsung 710?

Trying to virtually ascertain the degree of CR and color accuracy sacrifice for brightness gain.

I do not have total light control, but ambient light is definitely minimal ... would trying to get this machine tuned towards the CR of the aforementioned pjs be a worthwhile pursuit? Stuff like this will likely have to wait until folks have enough time to sit down with proper measuring equipment ...

So far I like what I am hearing on this machine ... I am upgrading from a bright XGA, and I really hated to lose 48 lines. So the 'x768' aspect of the Mits sounds as appealing to me as the lumens.

PS I forgot to ask ... I know little of Mitsubishi, how is their track record for hardware/firmware reliability and support?

I called my dealer today to find out if they have it in stock and they said that its been shipped out so hopefully by next week I will test it temporarily on a white wall with the prismasonic lens..As far as availability on this projector I dont think its a problem. This PJ should at least serve me for 2-3 years or so. The only thing that bothered me when watching a 2.35:1 is I always compare the black level to the black bars on top and bottom screen on a 16x9, but now that I have an anamorphic lens I will probably kick that habit :)

What about it's 5segment color wheel. I thought you needed 6 segments, RBGRBG to keep rainbows at bay. Does anyone else think this could be an issue?.

I called my dealer today to find out if they have it in stock and they said that its been shipped out so hopefully by next week I will test it temporarily on a white wall with the prismasonic lens..As far as availability on this projector I dont think its a problem. This PJ should at least serve me for 2-3 years or so. The only thing that bothered me when watching a 2.35:1 is I always compare the black level to the black bars on top and bottom screen on a 16x9, but now that I have an anamorphic lens I will probably kick that habit :)

Can't wait to read what you have to say!

a dated sub-performing "brightness-comparable" LCD machine like the PLV-70)

ouch. OUCH!

The Sanyo has one thing over the Mits. Just the one, but for me it matters.

BB

Thats what I need to know. How is $3200 with shipping. Im sure I can beat any price but I have no idea where you guys are at. PM me. I may also be a little late to the table:(

This is my personal opinion. Other members feel free to chime in if you like.

Alan's proposed price is good and fair, I think. So far, the only informal review is from the original poster and it's a very positive one. I need to see more reviews from members who have the projector installed in their homes or formal reviews from the professionals to help make up my mind.

I look forward in hearing more opinions on this machine as everyone gets them in and sets them up :)

What about it's 5segment color wheel. I thought you needed 6 segments, RBGRBG to keep rainbows at bay. Does anyone else think this could be an issue?.

I wonder the same thing but, I guess the only way to know is to see for ourselves. I currently have a Sharp XV-10000 DLP and I'm not bothered by rainbow artifacts.

This is my personal opinion. Other members feel free to chime in if you like.

Alan's proposed price is good and fair, I think. So far, the only informal review is from the original poster and it's a very positive one. I need to see more reviews from members who have the projector installed in their homes or formal reviews from the professionals to help make up my mind.


I agree...A power buy would be great, although I assume it'll be a "limited time offer" and I'm not one to jump in as an early adopter without some more varied opinions...a few "more formal" reviews as well as "real world experiences" would do great things for this buyers confidence, though.

Harry

I'm interested in a power buy but also would like have it reviewed a bit more. A side-by-side with the Pannie AE-900 would be welcome.

So you seen it? Any comment?



yes I had seen it....

.. although my impression had been impaired by some factors.
1) I find the low level dithering a bit more than it should be. It's a bit like older 720p machines. Those newer DC3 machines I've seen do not have this. I saw a Sharp Z3k just prior to this. It should be using the same chip. The Z3k definitely does not have that much dithering. I wonder whether it's due to color wheel design.
2) it's indeed very bright. Compounding with a small demo screen (80"), I did see a bit RBE. Well I belong to the sensitive lot so I guess this is not very indicative. Again I think the Z3k has less.

but the demo setup is not very gd. The source is a cheap snazzio player (via DVI) . The PJ is just out of the box and at its default Cinema mode (and low lamp). Perhaps the dithering noise can be eliminated with a better calibrarion.

btw I can confirm it's a real quiet machine. quite the same as the Optoma H7x.

btw2 shot-throw adaptor: it's prohibitive expensive! I'm better off using an anamorph lens.

Any idea of a PowerBuy being done? Alan?

btw2 shot-throw adaptor: it's prohibitive expensive! I'm better off using an anamorph lens.
Navitar has the micro ScreenStar conversion wide-angle lenses that retail for about $400 or less and are of extreme quality and are of similar design as the one Mitsu offers. That's my best bet.

Any idea of a PowerBuy being done? Alan?

Ill have one ready to go but Ive received several PMs asking to wait until after Infocomm when more reports come back from real life viewings.

Ill have one ready to go but Ive received several PMs asking to wait until after Infocomm when more reports come back from real life viewings.


Good idea, Alan...Some formal reviews would be nice, too (I'm assuming there haven't been any to date, but I'd love to read one if anyone knows of any.)

Forgive my ignorance, Alan, but how long would a powerbuy on an item like this typically last?

Thanks!
Harry

I received my unit today and the weird thing was it only says WD2000 on the box and not WD2000U, but when I search the net I cant find any wd2000 model so I guess its the same model. Unfortunately with the rain we have my construction is delayed but I'm planning to test it with primasonic lens to a white sheet of cloth probably 92" diag 235:1, I will be feeding my htpc running theatertek and nvidia purevideo. I just want to see if there's any problem with the projector and I will give you guys my preliminary impression..

I received my unit today and the weird thing was it only says WD2000 on the box and not WD2000U, but when I search the net I cant find any wd2000 model so I guess its the same model. Unfortunately with the rain we have my construction is delayed but I'm planning to test it with primasonic lens to a white sheet of cloth probably 92" diag 235:1, I will be feeding my htpc running theatertek and nvidia purevideo. I just want to see if there's any problem with the projector and I will give you guys my preliminary impression..


Curious to see how it works with the Prismasonic. I'm sure you'll be able to do this with the HTPC, etc., but I'm wondering if the projector's onboard scaler itself can do the stretch of the anamorphic content properly (to get rid of the black bars)...I can't really tell from the manual which setting on the aspect ratio settings would do it (in fact, I just wrote an email to Mitsu Tech support tonight to ask!).

The manual I downloaded also just says "WD2000" (no "U"; ?possibly "USA"). Obviously, you have it, but for those that are interested: http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/resources_doclibrary.asp

Let us know how it all works!

Harry

Curious to see how it works with the Prismasonic. I'm sure you'll be able to do this with the HTPC, etc., but I'm wondering if the projector's onboard scaler itself can do the stretch of the anamorphic content properly (to get rid of the black bars)...I can't really tell from the manual which setting on the aspect ratio settings would do it (in fact, I just wrote an email to Mitsu Tech support tonight to ask!).

Harry

I will give you an update regarding the scaler on this model..BTW the remote has a built in laser pointer :)

here is the link to the user manual..
http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/downloads/manuals/Mitsubishi/MITWD2000U_manual.pdf

I will give you an update regarding the scaler on this model..BTW the remote has a built in laser pointer :)

here is the link to the user manual..
http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/downloads/manuals/Mitsubishi/MITWD2000U_manual.pdf


Yeah, and the remote also looks like it functions as a mouse, too (from the manual, of course!)

H

I ordered three and got them today (two for my screening rooms at my Prod. Co.) and one for my living room at home. It will take me a few days to setup them up as I am on a shoot all day for the next 3 days but will post impressions and pics by then. Since I started this thread and already did a couple of write-ups on the machine, instead of doing the same, I'll just ask any questions you guys may have. I will have the one on my living room professionally calibrated next Tuesday the 30th but will be up and running for sure by the weekend, using my humble adjustments capacities :)

Hi liebkid,

Congrats! I bet it will be a bit harder to concentrate on work for the next few days.

Did you get the Mini Screenstar? I'd be very interested to know how well it works with the 2000. I'm particularly interested in what offset angle you're using.

My application requires that the lens is 12" below the screen ( 106" ) shooting up. From the specs I've read, that's the maximum upward shift ( 6" ) from the neutral (8.5") offset. I'm worried that smaller Mini ScreenStar might roll off the top. Obviously this would be less of an issue with the larger ScreenStar, but's it's almost as expensive as the street of the Mits wide angle adapter ( which appears to have an MSRP close to the MAP of the projector itself!)

Also, it would be great to know the filter / adapter thread diameter of the lens.

Thanks, and have fun with the new toys!

Jonathan

Jonathan, I have a (monstrous) ISCO-II .85x wide-angle adapter, so I'll be using that (will take pics of the setup). I have however used the ScreenStar's (not the mini version, but the optics are the same) for slide projection and the quality of the lenses is superb. The only difference between the ScreenStar and ScreenStar minis are the size/thread of the lenses.

Congrats liebkid, please do a comprehensive review if you can since you have all the equipment and we need some photos lots of them :)..plz plz plz..

Congrats liebkid, please do a comprehensive review if you can since you have all the equipment and we need some photos lots of them :)..plz plz plz..
Will do. I will need a few days to get it all up and running but I'll post it all here. Any specific questions from anyone, I'll try to answer. Just shoot them over :)

Will do. I will need a few days to get it all up and running but I'll post it all here. Any specific questions from anyone, I'll try to answer. Just shoot them over :)

Please comment on the size and weight. My projector is ceiling mounted in my master bedroom through the drywall into a single wooden beam. My current projector is 7 lbs and I have no problem mounting. I'm jsut worried about this 20lb projector.

Please comment on the size and weight. My projector is ceiling mounted in my master bedroom through the drywall into a single wooden beam. My current projector is 7 lbs and I have no problem mounting. I'm jsut worried about this 20lb projector.
I have mounted large machines using snap-out type large hallow wall anchors but God forbid I give you an advice and the projector comes tumbling down. The Mitsu is not overly large, but it is heavy. A long time ago I stacked a ton of equipment on a (paper thin) completely hollow ceiling and had to put a mast down for security :)
http://www.youthdelivery.com/mount.jpg

My ceiling is not hallow as I do mount the projector to a single wood beam stud. Should I be concerned about 20 lbs pulling down?

My ceiling is not hallow as I do mount the projector to a single wood beam stud. Should I be concerned about 20 lbs pulling down?

Are you kidding? You yourself could hang from that wood beam stud all day long with out a problem. 20 pounds is not heavy.....my Sharp is 21 pounds and I have a couple of 5/16" lag screws going into a piece of wood that is fastened to a floor joist and it would hold far more weight that a meesily 21 pounds. Just mount the ceiling bracket onto the wood beam using some lag screws and hang the projector on the ceiling bracket. :)

Are you kidding? You yourself could hang from that wood beam stud all day long with out a problem. 20 pounds is not heavy.....my Sharp is 21 pounds and I have a couple of 5/16" lag screws going into a piece of wood that is fastened to a floor joist and it would hold far more weight that a meesily 21 pounds. Just mount the ceiling bracket onto the wood beam using some lag screws and hang the projector on the ceiling bracket. :)

Thanks Tom for the reassurance. As the projector is right above our heads, I'm just a little concerned. But you're right, I had no problem standing on that very wood beam when I worked on my current projector.

Just wear a helmet just in case :)

*this* is what I sit under. Geez ... 20lbs ... the WD2000 would hardly cause a lump!

:eek: LOL

*this* is what I sit under. Geez ... 20lbs ... the WD2000 would hardly cause a lump!

Now that's what I'm talkin' about....that's HEAVY! It's the size of a small planet :)

*this* is what I sit under. Geez ... 20lbs ... the WD2000 would hardly cause a lump!

:rolleyes:

Thanks, I feel much safer now.

I had the opportunity to spend some time with the WD2000U. Great performance and all the features you could possibly want (well maybe not all but enough for me). Very solid feeling to the entire system, bright and quiet. The only weakness is the previously mentioned low level dithering (possibly more visible due to the high light level of my set-up) and of course RBE if you are sensitive to that. A/B'd it with a PLV-70...no contest. I'll be buying one. It could have been priced 25% higher and still would be a great value.

I know that we have all discussed RBE and I am not personally concerned about it; but is there a way to test if you are sensitive to such things? I agree with Alan and others that if you sit there all day and look for faults your are going to find them; there is no perfect world and we will always be seeking that next video fix. It would be nice to know if you are prone to it our not and then we can just point others for the test....

Since this is such a bright projector, the use of ND filters is probably called for. In my limited research, depth of field is greatly reduced when using these filters on still cameras. Am I correct or incorrect in assuming that the same would apply to projectors? If so, I don't know if I'm willing to give that up. Otherwise this looks like a great projector to compensate for the dimming as the bulb ages - just change the ND filter to let more light in.

"In my limited research, depth of field is greatly reduced when using these filters on still cameras. "

Research meaning reading or doing? In any case, depth of field refers to the distance over which an image is in focus, and filters shouldn't have anything to do with that.

Research meaning reading or doing? In any case, depth of field refers to the distance over which an image is in focus, and filters shouldn't have anything to do with that.

Exactly, and on front projection, everything is focused at the same point, the screen. And FWIW, it's not the ND filter that changes the DOF with cameras, it's the aperture I believe (which an ND filter allows a larger aperture at the same shutter/film speed).

Thanks stranger89. After reading your explanation that it is actually the f-stop that actually changes the depth of field the light bulb went off. I went back to the website (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/filter/filter-ND.html - look at the statue, not the truck) that gave the explanation of the change in depth of field and, you're right, as they used darker neutral density filters, they had to open up the lens which reduced the depth of field. Therefore, there should be no change in depth of field using ND filters with any projector. Thanks for info.

I was reading the warranty info on this PJ and it seems pretty good.

from Mitsu website...
Pricing, Availability, Warranty
The WD2000U wide screen, high-def projector is currently available through authorized Mitsubishi dealers for a suggested retail price of $3995. The projector comes with Mitsubishi's three-year limited warranty on parts and labor plus a 90-day limited warranty on the lamp. Like all Mitsubishi XGA projectors, the WD2000U is covered by the Express Replacement Assistance (ERA) Program, a nationwide comprehensive service that offers next business-day replacement for down units under warranty coverage.

I had the opportunity to spend some time with the WD2000U. Great performance and all the features you could possibly want (well maybe not all but enough for me). Very solid feeling to the entire system, bright and quiet. The only weakness is the previously mentioned low level dithering (possibly more visible due to the high light level of my set-up) and of course RBE if you are sensitive to that. A/B'd it with a PLV-70...no contest. I'll be buying one. It could have been priced 25% higher and still would be a great value.

Sounds like a winner. I'm looking towards a power buy.

Liebkid, Know anyone with one on display?

Sounds like a winner. I'm looking towards a power buy. Liebkid, Know anyone with one on display?
Sorry I don't. I'll mine during the weekend and will post some thoughts and shots of it then. Also, there should be a couple of "official" reviews coming out soon. ProjectorCentral's will be on the works soon:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news052606.htm

liebkid, what part of ca. are you in? need a hand setting it up? chris

liebkid, what part of ca. are you in? need a hand setting it up? chris
Chris, I am in Santa Barbara. Out sailing all day today and then coming home to setup the monster up and watch 720p and 1080i content all night Will also do a full comparison between using the machine's internal scaler (I don't put my hopes there too high) and a couple of my external video processors to see the differences. It will be a long night...

http://www.youthdelivery.com/mitsu1.jpg

life sounds rough....really looking forward to reading your observations. chris

Since this is such a bright projector, the use of ND filters is probably called for. In my limited research, depth of field is greatly reduced when using these filters on still cameras. Am I correct or incorrect in assuming that the same would apply to projectors? If so, I don't know if I'm willing to give that up. Otherwise this looks like a great projector to compensate for the dimming as the bulb ages - just change the ND filter to let more light in.


Kazuba

The filter themselves do not reduce the Depth of Field. ND filers limit the amount od light getting into the lens so you have to open up the iris in most instances (you could increase the shutter speed too) to compensate. Larger iris openings, in a lens result into shallower Depth-of-Field...

So an ND in itself does not reduce the depth of field...

I did some preliminary testing on this PJ yesterday. Using DVI from HTPC with nvidia purevideo upscaling everything to 1080i 60hz. I cannot detect any rainbow whatsoever so I guess I'm not that sensitive to it neither my wife. Flesh tones was very natural, even running @ low lamp its still too bright for my taste so a good grey screen is going to be the choice. No matter how hard I try to detect dithering I cant see any so maybe this is dependant on the source. Star Wars II was awesome, I did not have time to test my prismasonic lens but I will tonight. Fan is very quiet in low lamp mode I would say I cant hear it @ 5 ft., but on presentation mode (high) the fan is louder. Lens shift was so very handly. Watching the 1080p sample from nvidia was so good and colors was accurate after doing a minor adjustment, no dithering that I can see and @ 1xW distance pixelation is not a problem to me. Liebkid will probably have an intensive testing and I look forward to it...The built is top notch and doesnt feel cheap like my previous sony vpl10HT. The only thing that bothers me is that some of color adjustment is locked if you use DVI, but easily overcome by using HTPC..

Star Wars II was awesome, I did not have time to test my prismasonic lens but I will tonight..

Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this combo. Please post a screen shot if possible. Thanks!!

I started my long groundwork testing on the Mitsu last night. Didn't get to go as far as I wanted because I got too tired and this is will require more time than I thought. Most of my good impressions when I first saw this PJ 3 weeks ago, remain. Many of them, exceed my expectations. This projector is really, really an impressive machine.
- Brightness is killer. Low lamp mode enough.
- Very, very low fan noise in low mode.
- This is one PJ that you will live WITHOUT FEARS of loosing brightness as the bulb ages. there is so much light to spare that throughout the lamp's life you will most likely always have all the lumens you need at hand.
- Optics quality are simply superb.
- The standard lens is fairly long-throw so a lot of you MAY NEED an optical wide-angle converter.
- Build quality top notch.
- Design details as a back cover that hides all your wiring and connectors are perfect.
- No Rainbow whatsoever I can detect to distract my attention. Very good.
- On all 720p material I fed it with overall color and CR, very, very good, this without starting a major calibration yet.
- VERY LOW NOISE. Image is extremely clean, smooth and depth-full'
- SDE effect typical of all 720P machines, just better slightly better as this it uses a 1280x768 DMD so there is a slight pixel count increase but reallyu nothign you'd notice if you didn't know.
- Dithering very hard to see. If you go look for specific scenes and material you know it can be seen, you can get a glimpse of with some material. By far among the best single-chip machines I've seen in this regard.
- Menu and remote control operations very well laid out.
- Built-in scaler is good, not excellent. There are some limitations on color correction with analog and, especially with digital input. Like I mentioned earlier this unit works best with an external scaler/ video processor. I am using a Crystalio-II and it does a much better job at correcting everything the PJ itself allows you to do.

Will post pics and lots of details once I have the unit professional calibrated this Tuesday. For the money, nothing comes close to this thing. Positively nothing.

A short-throw lens is listed as an optional lens for this pj. Is there an additional cost to choosing this lens rather than the standard one? And is there any loss in picture quality with the short-throw lens? (I'm thinking of a 104" wide screen at a distance of ~160".) Or would it be better to re-plan the set-up to be able to use the standard lens?

Hi liebkid,

Can you pls tell me the range of verical and horizontal len shift? These are very important before I decide to buy this projector.

Does anyone know what Mitsubishi Color Enhancer support is? Some form of modulating brilliant colour a la optoma, just jargon or? It is used in describing this model but not the HC3000. This model appears to be a brighter, more full featured, better built version of the HC3000, albeit with lower claimed contrast. Has anyone been able to compare PQ on the two?

With so much brightness, is anyone surprised the contrast ratio is listed relatively low at 2000:1?

If it really puts out that much light, and the contrast ratio is listed like that, can one assume the black levels are not that great?

With so much brightness, is anyone surprised the contrast ratio is listed relatively low at 2000:1? If it really puts out that much light, and the contrast ratio is listed like that, can one assume the black levels are not that great? By the opposite. The black levels are great with that much light, meaning if you cut light down via ND filter or a low gain/high CR screen, it gets even better.

Hi liebkid, Can you pls tell me the range of verical and horizontal len shift? These are very important before I decide to buy this projector.There is little off set axis on thei machine with about 25% V Lens Shift and maybe 20% or 15% H Lens Shift. Not the widest range I've seen.

professional calibrated this Tuesday

Could you note settings(before and after) and service menu info after you have it calibrated?

Thanks!

Jim

A short-throw lens is listed as an optional lens for this pj. Is there an additional cost to choosing this lens rather than the standard one? And is there any loss in picture quality with the short-throw lens? (I'm thinking of a 104" wide screen at a distance of ~160".) Or would it be better to re-plan the set-up to be able to use the standard lens?To the best of my knowledge, this PJ only comes with one zoom lens standard. The wide or telephoto lenses are add-on type that you screw in front of the lens' thread. Mitsu sells them for a lot of money I read somewhere in this thread. There are other options available like the Navitar converters for a bit less. As with any add-on optics you can expect some degree of loss in picture quality, though in many cases is negligible. I've read many reviews on the Navitars (all very positive) and use one myself for a slide projector and it is fantastic. On the Mitsubishi WD2000U PJ I am using a (very) large 0.85x ISCO-II Wide Converter, probably the best wide-angle projection converter on the market... also, it was twice the price of the PJ a couple years ago :) On my setup there is no visible degradation of quality what so ever as, besides the quality of the optics themselves that is superb, the diameter of lens itself is so large, that only a small portion of its' center is actually being used, thus minimizing outer diameter and corner aberrations (where most of the real opticas problems set in). I will soon take pics of my setup and screenshots and post them here.

Could you note settings(before and after) and service menu info after you have it calibrated? Thanks! JimJim, will do. Please note though that the for the most part, settings' changes on the PJ will be down to a minimum or left all close to the defaults as most of the work will be done at the setup on the External Video Processor its connected to, a Crystalio-II, so unless you have the same combo, I am not sure if it will be of too much help posting the values here. Out of the box there is a slight green tint (as I had also seen on the first Mitsubishi screening I attended). Cutting the green BIAS On the PJ helps a bit but not as much. Tweaking things on the Crystalio-II is a different story and even without "pro" expertise, I could easily get the colors very close to perfect.

To the best of my knowledge, this PJ only comes with one zoom lens standard. The wide or telephoto lenses are add-on type that you screw in front of the lens' thread. Mitsu sells them for a lot of money I read somewhere in this thread. There are other options available like the Navitar converters for a bit less. As with any add-on optics you can expect some degree of loss in picture quality, though in many cases is negligible. I've read many reviews on the Navitars (all very positive) and use one myself for a slide projector and it is fantastic. On the Mitsubishi WD2000U PJ I am using a (very) large 0.85x ISCO-II Wide Converter, probably the best wide-angle projection converter on the market... also, it was twice the price of the PJ a couple years ago :) On my setup there is no visible degradation of quality what so ever as, besides the quality of the optics themselves that is superb, the diameter of lens itself is so large, that only a small portion of its' center is actually being used, thus minimizing outer diameter and corner aberrations (where most of the real opticas problems set in). I will soon take pics of my setup and screenshots and post them here.

Hmmm. This a bit discouraging. The Spec sheet (attached) lists various optional lens (on the second page) that I thought could be chosen in lieu of the standard one.

edit: oops; file was too large. But you can find it somewhere above.

Jim, will do. Please note though that the for the most part, settings' changes on the PJ will be down to a minimum or left all close to the defaults as most of the work will be done at the setup on the External Video Processor its connected to, a Crystalio-II, so unless you have the same combo, I am not sure if it will be of too much help posting the values here. Out of the box there is a slight green tint (as I had also seen on the first Mitsubishi screening I attended). Cutting the green BIAS On the PJ helps a bit but not as much. Tweaking things on the Crystalio-II is a different story and even without "pro" expertise, I could easily get the colors very close to perfect.

I am using a VP30 to feed mine, so I know that it will be different, but just knowing what settings that he/she needed to adjust would be fine. BTW, what screen are you using?

So can someone simplify the offset math for me? How much offset is there for every foot of throw? This pj looks like it will fit my planned theater perfectly (very similar to retret's with the Prismasonic lens) but I need to figure out the offset.

To the best of my knowledge, this PJ only comes with one zoom lens standard. The wide or telephoto lenses are add-on type that you screw in front of the lens' thread. Mitsu sells them for a lot of money I read somewhere in this thread.

I hope your info is incorrect! My local Mit. say the lens are indeed interchangeable on order with no additional charge. Besides there is even a fixed lens (no zoom) option and I don't think a screw-on adaptor can do that.

Too bad Mit. said they are still waiting for a sample and should be arrived within this month so there is only 2 days left!

regards,

Li On

Hi Li On,

I believe liebkid is correct.

Mits wide angle adapter (http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/avcat/ctl2861/index.cfm/mlc_id/665/SID/15949299/pin_id/2861/prodID/347217.htm)

The fixed ultra wide is stand-alone.

Jonathan

I see. So the short and long throw zoom lens are add-on adaptor while the fixed ultra wide is a total replacement of the original lens?

The short throw adaptor listed at 3.3lbs so the motorized Focus & Zoom is quite powerful to drive the heavy add-on!

And that means the lens has thread for screw on and may be my current Olympus WCON-08B wide adaptor will work too.

I'll ask Mit. for more detail.

regards,

Li On

I tried to hookup my prismasonic but the camera sucks and picture gets blurry I probably use a tripod next time, anyway this one picture shows how much barrel distortion you get which is almost undetectable. By just looking at the windows taskbar you get the idea..btw I use a white cloth as a screen..
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2105895536

To the best of my knowledge, and I apologize if I am wrong these are the lenses for the Mitsu, both compatible for the XD2000U and WD2000U:

WIDE-ANGLE CONVERTER (Zoom Ratio 1.3-1.9 OL-XD2000SZ)
(V) Shift 1:1-12:-1 / (H) Shift Width +/-10%
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/OL-XD2000SZ.pdf
MSRP: $2,795

LONG-THROW CONVERTER (Zoom Ratio 2.1-2.9 OL-XD2000LZ)
(V) Shift 1:1-12:-1 / (H) Shift Width +/-10%
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/OL-XD2000LZ.pdf
MSRP: $2,495

SUPER LONG-THROW INTERCHANGEABLE LENS (Zoom Ratio 2.9-4.7 OL-XD2000TZ)
(V) Shift 1:1-12:-1 / (H) Shift Width +/-10%
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/OL-XD2000TZ.pdf
MSRP: $3,095

FIXED FOCAL INTERCHANGEABLE LENS (0.8 OL-XD2000FR)
No Variable Lens Shift
http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/OL-XD2000FR.pdf
MSRP: $2,695

I hope this helps.

Liebkid: You must be right, for the model number on the items you list--e.g., OL-XD2000SZ for the short throw--are the same ones listed in the WD-2000U broshure for the 'optional short throw lens'. So it does sound like it will be an added cost to get one of these 'options'. Too bad.

There is little off set axis on thei machine with about 25% V Lens Shift and maybe 20% or 15% H Lens Shift. Not the widest range I've seen.


Could you explain what you mean by 25% "off set axis?" Do you mean the shift is up to 25% total or 25% in each direction from the center axis point?

For example, with an 8 foot wide screen you could be 1 foot above or below center axis or 2 feet?

Sorry for the confusion on my part.

Could you explain what you mean by 25% "off set axis?" Do you mean the shift is up to 25% total or 25% in each direction from the center axis point? For example, with an 8 foot wide screen you could be 1 foot above or below center axis or 2 feet? Sorry for the confusion on my part.Correct. I will measure it more precisely to try and be more accurate. On my 159" diagonal screen from a dead-on axis on the center of the screen I am able to move the picture about 3 1/2 feet vertically and about 2 1/2 feet horizontally on a very short throw of just 16 feet (using my 0.8x Wide-angle converter). I've seen much broader lens shift ranges on other home theatre projectors though the range on the WD2000U suits me perfectly. Now, keep in mind that the WD2000U is a large venue machine so the shifting range was designed around projection from fairly large distances. The shifting gets a wider range as distance from the screen increases.

liebkid: the info I got is exactly the same as urs on the lens adaptor. And remember I said they are prohibitively expensive ? :(

Please compare this WD2000U to the black level and shadow details of the 8720.

I tried to hookup my prismasonic but the camera sucks and picture gets blurry I probably use a tripod next time, anyway this one picture shows how much barrel distortion you get which is almost undetectable. By just looking at the windows taskbar you get the idea..btw I use a white cloth as a screen..
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2105895536Thanks!

Even adding in the cost of the lens options its still a great value compared to the upper end 1 chip DLPs. Yamaha, Sharp, Marantz ect.

Even adding in the cost of the lens options its still a great value compared to the upper end 1 chip DLPs. Yamaha, Sharp, Marantz ect.

Perhaps, but adding $2800 to the base cost (~$3500 street) is a rather absurd increment--close to doubling the price. Especially since the broshure says 'optional' lens.

i think $4500 is entirely within reach for a combination with lens... that does put it at a different price point though...

liebkids suggestion was to try the Navitar mini-ScreenStar. It's rear and front element diameter is not nearly what the Mits lens is, but, the Mits lens is fixed to the front of the primary lens. It looks like it's so large ( I think the front element is 140mm or so ) so it can accommodate the lens shift. Now, it seems like since you can angle the mini ScreenStar up, and place it right in the middle of the beam, you may be able to get away with the smaller diameter optics. This could be a much less expensive solution. Now, if you're forced to use the full sized ScreenStar, I think the price is about a wash compared to the street price of the Mits lens.

Obviously, other wide angle adapters could be tried too. Li On was mentioning the Olympus, which looks to be larger diameter than the mini ScreenStar.

Liebkid - what is the filter diameter of the Mits primary lens?

Jonathan

If I go with the Mits 2000 pj, I think will revise my plans to utilize the standard lens. I had been planning on a 120" diag HighPower screen (which is retro-reflective), with the pj mounted on a stand at eye level about 13.5 ft away, but this would require the short-throw lens. If instead I mount the pj on the ceiling and use a Firehawk screen (which is angular-reflective), it will be ~ 15.5 from the screen and the throw will be ~1.8, within the range of the standard lens (and greater than the 1.6 minimum that Stewart recommends for the Firehawk).

The only drawback to the 'Firehawk plan' is that it generates 'only' ~30 ftL, while the 'HighPower plan' generates ~67 ftL. Since I have a modest amount of ambient light to deal with (not much direct light, but light-colored ceiling and walls), I had been planning to go with as many ftL as possible.

I would appreciate any comments that those of you experienced in these matters might have on these two alternatives. I.e., is 30 ftL enough, or should I really suck it up and get the short throw lens and go with the HighPower (which is ~ $1000 less expensive as the Firehawk) and have > 60 ftL?

If I go with the Mits 2000 pj, I think will revise my plans to utilize the standard lens. I had been planning on a 120" diag HighPower screen (which is retro-reflective), with the pj mounted on a stand at eye level about 13.5 ft away, but this would require the short-throw lens. If instead I mount the pj on the ceiling and use a Firehawk screen (which is angular-reflective), it will be ~ 15.5 from the screen and the throw will be ~1.8, within the range of the standard lens (and greater than the 1.6 minimum that Stewart recommends for the Firehawk).

The only drawback to the 'Firehawk plan' is that it generates 'only' ~30 ftL, while the 'HighPower plan' generates ~67 ftL. Since I have a modest amount of ambient light to deal with (not much direct light, but light-colored ceiling and walls), I had been planning to go with as many ftL as possible.

I would appreciate any comments that those of you experienced in these matters might have on these two alternatives. I.e., is 30 ftL enough, or should I really suck it up and get the short throw lens and go with the HighPower (which is ~ $1000 less expensive as the Firehawk) and have > 60 ftL?Bill, with this PJ you'll have more than enough light with the Firehawk screen, that will give you much better CR than the DaLite. I have a 159" Firehawk and though I have a completely pitch dark room, it is extremelly bright and I am using a 2x neutral density filter to get it right (I have a new bulb of course so I am betting even if the bulb dimms to 1/2 the brightness down the road) I still will have enough lumens to play with by taking off the ND filter. Also I am running the PJ on low power mode.

Bill, with this PJ you'll have more than enough light with the Firehawk screen, that will give you much better CR than the DaLite. I have a 159" Firehawk and though I have a completely pitch dark room, it is extremelly bright and I am using a 2x neutral density filter to get it right (I have a new bulb of course so I am betting even if the bulb dimms to 1/2 the brightness down the road) I still will have enough lumens to play with by taking off the ND filter. Also I am running the PJ on low power mode.

Liebkid, thanks for the re-assurance! I don't mind the extra $$ for the Firehawk if it does a better job. My impression is that it does need a very bright pj, so the Mits seems ideal. AND, with the FH I will be able to use the standard lens!

liebkid,
Since one of the main attractions of this pj is the ability to keep a bright picture with a large screen, and yours being 159".

What is your veiwing distance? or what is the required veiwing distance for your screen size, where you can't see any pixel structure at all? This would be my only concern as I can't see any pixel structure on my 114" wide screen at either of my seating positions of 13' and 19' with my Panasonic 900.
Thanks

Correct. I will measure it more precisely to try and be more accurate. On my 159" diagonal screen from a dead-on axis on the center of the screen I am able to move the picture about 3 1/2 feet vertically and about 2 1/2 feet horizontally on a very short throw of just 16 feet (using my 0.8x Wide-angle converter). I've seen much broader lens shift ranges on other home theatre projectors though the range on the WD2000U suits me perfectly. Now, keep in mind that the WD2000U is a large venue machine so the shifting range was designed around projection from fairly large distances. The shifting gets a wider range as distance from the screen increases.

Just so that I understand the above correctly, do you mean that your total vertical range from center axis is 3.5 feet (1.75 up or down from center) or that you can move 3.5 feet in both directions?

Thanks

Liebkid, thanks for the re-assurance! I don't mind the extra $$ for the Firehawk if it does a better job. My impression is that it does need a very bright pj, so the Mits seems ideal. AND, with the FH I will be able to use the standard lens!


You could always go with a SilverStar if you really want super bright angular reflective, but I think the Firehawk and this will be a great combo. If your focus is to have the best possible picture with ambient light and you can afford it, I would try the Screen Innovation Visage, I think this projector would be a perfect match for that. I know somebody that uses the Visage with the Panasonic 900 in a lot of light and he is very happy with it.

liebkid

Do you have the throw numbers for what the standard lens will do ( I am making the assumption [with all that implies] that there is a standard lens)???

[QUOTE=dangc]You could always go with a SilverStar iQUOTE]


Uhhhh.....

If you go with the SilverStar you might want to think about "Fire Retardent" paint for the rest of the room :D :D

You could always go with a SilverStar if you really want super bright angular reflective, but I think the Firehawk and this will be a great combo. If your focus is to have the best possible picture with ambient light and you can afford it, I would try the Screen Innovation Visage, I think this projector would be a perfect match for that. I know somebody that uses the Visage with the Panasonic 900 in a lot of light and he is very happy with it.

Thanks for the suggestions. The reason I'm staying away from the SS is that it is reported to degrade rapidly with any ambient light (see some of Tryg's posts). The SI Visage (= Supernova) is outrageously expensive (~$4000 or more for a 120" diag screen), and it also seems to 'hotspot' rather badly. But all of this is 'heresay' from various posts I've read; none of it is from personal experience. The FH is already expensive enough for a screen (~$2000), but not beyond reason. And it seems to do very well with ambient light, particularly that from the side (because it has a relatively narrow viewing angle). The narrow viewing angle is no problem for me since my room is longer than it is wide.

But as I said, this is all what I gather from reading these threads. I'm trying to actually SEE as many of these screens as possible; have seen a HighPower and Grayhawk, and will see a Firehawk in another week. A lot of research in necessary in the FP game!

liebkid,
Since one of the main attractions of this pj is the ability to keep a bright picture with a large screen, and yours being 159". What is your veiwing distance? or what is the required veiwing distance for your screen size, where you can't see any pixel structure at all? This would be my only concern as I can't see any pixel structure on my 114" wide screen at either of my seating positions of 13' and 19' with my Panasonic 900. ThanksI am about 16 feet from the screen about a foot above dead center, so requiring just minor vertical shifting and no horizontal shifting. I cannot see a pixel structure within 12 feet from the screen. However I am not particularly sensitive on seeing some SDE nor to RBE on DLPs and I guessing you may probably be more than I am. The Panny 900 is among the best 720p LCD projectors I've seen in regards of not showing pixel structure. If on such a small screen size it takes you at least 13 feet not to see its pixel structure, I'd venture to say that you'll see much more clearly on the Mitsu as the lens is DEAD sharp and there is no trade of sharpness. The Mitsu might not be for you. Also, the Mitsu is a machine optimized for larger screens. I cannot foresee you needing 3000 lumens to fill up your 114" screen without watching it with sunglasses on or an 3x ND filter on it, as the 1100 of your Panny 900 are more than adequate for that screen size. I always found the image from the Panny 900 to be extremely soft as it uses a scheme to smooth out the pixel structure by interpolation the pixels into each other at a 1/3 pixel offset. I personally don't trade sharpness for anything.

Thanks for the response. The main reason I asked was to determine if I increased my screen size, would the Mitsubishi be ok for my current seating positions. I didn't mean to say I had to be 13' away from my 900 not to see pixels with my 114" screen . I would have to be only 3-4 feet away to see it.
It's just as bright as the Mits. is, pixel structure on bright scenes might be a issue if I went with a 144 Wide screen.

For all of you who have been asking liebkid about the lens shift, offset, and other mounting issues, the manual (available at http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/resources_doclibrary.asp ) seems to have a pretty well diagrammed chart on page 12 that seems to cover all those questions.

I don't own one (yet!) but I personally thought the manual was pretty well done...seems pretty helpful for "planning" purposes...any owners care to comment?

I haven't yet gotten a response from Mitsu re: their factory ceiling mount info or the comparison to the XD1000/2000 cases (looks identical in the pictures) as Chief has an RPA mount for the X's.

Harry

Liebkid: So you view a 159" Firehhawk from 16 ft, right? This is a distance of 1.2 x screen diag, about the viewing distance ratio I'm planning (a 120" diag screen from 12.5 ft). And you see no pixel structure from the Mits at this distance? And the Mits is bright enough to light up this size screen even with a 2x ND filter on it? Amazing.

Liebkid: So you view a 159" Firehhawk from 16 ft, right? This is a distance of 1.2 x screen diag, about the viewing distance ratio I'm planning (a 120" diag screen from 12.5 ft). And you see no pixel structure from the Mits at this distance? And the Mitsubishi is bright enough to light up this size screen even with a 2x ND filter on it? Amazing.Very, very bright projector. I've calibrated it to the best of my abilities for best color and no white clipping and its still that bright. Tomorrow I will have an installer here spend a few hours and calibrate the machine to spec. I am assuming I may loose some light output when gamma and gray scale corrected as good as the PJ can do... that is pertaining I did a horrible job at calibrating the machine myself. I may need to get the ND filter out who knows but I doubt. I'll let you know once the machine is fully calibrated and I get official readouts of what's left on screen! I will start posting pics and screenshots tomorrow. For all of you PMing me for them, I apologize for the delay. I look forward in seeing what this machine can do fully calibrated and if any screenshots taken can do justice to it. I will be using my 16 Million Pixel Canon EOS-1Ds Mk-II and will post download links in full res so that there are no doubts on getting to the nicks and grinds of the optics, pixel structure and all that goods stuff.

Oh and for all of those in (or close to) Santa Barbara I am doing cocktails' night and a special HD movie screening on Thursday the 8th of June starting at 7PM, as the PJ's official premier for friends and aficionados. Everyone's invited of course :) Alan, that goes for you too...

Hi liebkid,

I'm quite interested in seeing the greyscale track before and after calibration. I know your initial impression was on some B&W material, and it would be great to know how a presentation class projector with a Y and Clear segment does out of the box. Do you know if the cinema modes disable the Yellow and Clear?

Jonathan

Very, very bright projector. I've calibrated it to the best of my abilities for best color and no white clipping and its still that bright. Tomorrow I will have an installer here spend a few hours and calibrate the machine to spec. I am assuming I may loose some light output when gamma and gray scale corrected as good as the PJ can do... that is pertaining I did a horrible job at calibrating the machine myself. I may need to get the ND filter out who knows but I doubt. I'll let you know once the machine is fully calibrated and I get official readouts of what's left on screen! I will start posting pics and screenshots tomorrow. For all of you PMing me for them, I apologize for the delay. I look forward in seeing what this machine can do fully calibrated and if any screenshots taken can do justice to it. I will be using my 16 Million Pixel Canon EOS-1Ds Mk-II and will post download links in full res so that there are no doubts on getting to the nicks and grinds of the optics, pixel structure and all that goods stuff.

Thanks a bunch for all your feedback liebkid! I look forward to your further reviews after calibration. Are you saying that you still have plenty of light even when in the mode optimized for HT and highest CR? I was wondering if you could also comment on the color control via DVI. I think I saw that one of you posted that you don't get as much control on the DVI input, can you expand on this? I can only relate to my Sony HS-51 which has RGB controls for Gain and Bias, do you have that kind of control and loose it on the DVI input? I am asking because I have a high contrast DIY screen that has a bit of a blue push that I currently have to compensate for by lowering the blue gain and bias.

...Do you know if the cinema modes disable the Yellow and Clear?Hi Jonathan. To the best of my knowledge, yes it disables the Yellow and Clear. Also I suspect that most of the BrilliantColor Enhancements will be set to off for best calibration, thus, also a fair chunk of peak brightness.

Liebkid, I would also like to add my thanks for all the info you've supplied, and I look forward to hearing your report after the calibration. Sorry that I don't live closer to Santa Barbara to be able to take you up on your invitation!

Thanks a bunch for all your feedback liebkid! I look forward to your further reviews after calibration. Are you saying that you still have plenty of light even when in the mode optimized for HT and highest CR? I was wondering if you could also comment on the color control via DVI. I think I saw that one of you posted that you don't get as much control on the DVI input, can you expand on this? I can only relate to my Sony HS-51 which has RGB controls for Gain and Bias, do you have that kind of control and loose it on the DVI input? I am asking because I have a high contrast DIY screen that has a bit of a blue push that I currently have to compensate for by lowering the blue gain and bias.Currently I still have plenty of light when optimized for HT and highest CR... plenty, plenty of light to spare. I'm still on low mode and with an ND filter. After calibration things will most likely change and I am prepared to having to get the filter out. Color control via DVI is very limited. You have contrast, brightness basic color saturation, hue and gamma. No Sharpness controls nor advanced color adjustment or channel gains. Also, this projector sadly misses a Digital Noise Reduction feature of some sort. An external Video Processor for proper color correction is a must in my opinion. I intend to leave most of the PJ's settings at defaults and do all the tweaking on the Crystalio-II, that I also will use as my digital switcher.

Liebkid, I read that you have an 8720 and would very much appreciate your comparison.
Thank you.

liebkid,
Is there a way to access the service menu?

Liebkid, I read that you have an 8720 and would very much appreciate your comparison. Thank you.Jim will do.
liebkid, Is there a way to access the service menu?I'm hoping the installer will know, I personally have no clue. I was told the service menu for these new generation machines changed from old ones and I am not sure if the info is out yet.

Any thoughts about these? (I don't know about the first, but the second I thought has been reputable in the past...)

http://www.onsale.com/onsale/shop/detail~dpno~7056676.asp

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?store=macmall&dpno=7056676&source=ZWB12091&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=12-8474177-2&adcampaign=email,ZWB12091&wt.mc_id=ZWB12091

'Hope it's okay to ask about these...thanks for feedback...

Harry

Addendum: I just checked resellerratings.com ...Maybe they're not as attractive as I had hoped :eek:

Hmmm, I find their prices quite "extraordinary". If they are legit it's a great deal...

Both of those places fall into the "Too good to be true" category.
I see their both the same company. Check out their part# for both, they are the same.

pcmall has the same price....same number.....

It would be a risk if you order from these stores..just look at resellerratings.com first, I got mine from a diff store and the box was unopened, double boxed, no dead pixels and fast shipping..

Hi guys. Sorry for the delays in starting to post pics and comments but I've had a crazy day. The PJ will only get fully calibrated tomorrow as the installer got stuck in traffic coming my way from Los Angeles and we've postponed things for tomorrow. In the meanwhile I wanted to start posting a few pics and initial comments on the unit and my particular setup. Let me start by telling you this (and of course you all know I am not affiliated with Mitsubishi) nor would I loose my taken taking pictures and writing comments if it was not on the benefit of this community of interested aficionados :) Yes, yes, yes, this is not 1080p yet, but the Mitsubishi WD2000U is the best 720p machine in its class and several classes above it. For the price, features and build quality, this is it.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_01.jpg
First of all, the Mitsubishi WD2000U is surprisingly, a very accomplished design. It is large PJ but not much bigger than you'd expect for large venue machine. The finish is a satin soft white. Even the plastic shelf feels good. Nothing is thin or fragile. The optics are extremely large and multi-coated with the external glass being visible an aspheric piece. Very good built. This thing feels amazingly solid and very well put together. I have not touched any HT PJ in its price range with this level of built. Also, it has nothing to do with previous Mitsubishi products I had come in contact with in the past. You immediately feel that there were no corner cuts to make this a professional grade machine. Note that there are positively no buttons at sight except one discreet center top ON/OFF button. Totally flush design. I love it.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_02.jpg
The back features all your connections. Everything very well laid out. HDCP compliant DVI, no HDMI. Multiple analogues, components, LAN remote connectivity and all sorts of other stuff we'll probably never use. The remote control is also among the best things I've seen. Simple but extremely effective, will all buttons on the right place and a design that will look good on anyone's tea table :)


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_03.jpg
When the back cover is on, you see absolutely no wires what so ever. It looks stunning and very "finished". I like the rounded back. The PJ looks fabulous, even when off :)


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_04.jpg
Like I mentioned there are no buttons at sight except the ON/OFF button on the top. Just behind it a top cover hides the main navigation controls and buttons (also duplicated on the remote that includes a joystick for easy navigation). The cover is not flimsy at all and secure opens firmly in a smart rail design. Mitsubishi did it right.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_05.jpg
My setup includes an ISCO-II 0.8x wide-angle lens. I have a 159" screen at just under 16 feet. Getting the center point right as you shift the lens up and down and sideways becomes a huge exercise of patience and precision. I am building a rig on which both pieces will be sturdily fasten together so nothing moves.


http://www.youthdelivery.com/Mitsu_06.jpg
For those not familiar with the ISCO lens, this is one L A R G E piece of optics, giving you a good idea on the overall size on the PJ. These pics were taken out of the box before putting the setup on its final location. I will follow-up with more images and a few first screenshots of the WD2000U in action. I am setting it side-by-side with my BenQ 8720 so I can compare them easily. The BenQ (calibrated) seems to have a slight edge on blacks BUT, as I am comparing it to a machine 3 times brighter and not calibrated this actually is astonishing because the black levels on the Mitsu on full power seem to be only a notch brighter (lighter grey) than the BenQ. Let me tell you the bottom line, the WD2000U does blacks! many 10,000:1 and higher claims on other PJ are tricks of multiple irises and flags, and masked by extremely low light output. This thing is a light canon that does blacks. The colors out of the box match the 8720 in everyway. Color correction on the BenQ is much better and capable but, as I mentioned I am color correcting the Mitsubishi on my external video processor, bypassing most or all of its adjustments capabilitiues. I see more dithering and noise on the BenQ than on the Mitsubishi that is very, very clean using DVI. Component shows a slight loss in detail and adds visibly a bit of extra noise. The BenQ seems to have an advantage when connected to analogue sources... probably a better scaler/ processor. To me again not a problem as I'll let my external video processor handle all my few remaining component analogue sourced machines prior to processing them and feeding via DVI to the WD2000U with pixel-matched 1280x768 resolution. You need to connect the WD2000U via DVI and leave it, period. Side-by-side the WD2000U is overall sharper than the BenQ. It is truly dead-on razor sharp. From a certain distance on when you don't see SDE anymore... really... who needs 1080p? This thing is cut-throat sharp and I dare to say the optics play a high role in this. When in perfect focus, it is corner-to-corner perfect and viciously right-on. Even softening the image a bit there are no signs of color aberrations (typically green to one side and magenta to the other). I am curious as to who makes the optics of this machine as I have no clue, but this is among the best stuff I've seen when it comes to optics for HT PJs, specially at this price range. This lens would be ready for 1080p machines and higher resolution. Very, very good. Also, on low power mode the Mitsubishi is whisper quiet while a tad louder than the BenQ when on full power. But then the brutal punch of depth and brightness on the Mitsubishi blows the BenQ out of the water making it look so ridiculously dim and pale... my BenQ (still prior to having the WD2000U calibrated), will be on eBay tomorrow. The lack of cheer punch and depth is unbearable side-by-side to the WD2000U. Folks the WD2000U is one hell of a fabulous PJ. I find this piece of display engineering the holy grail of single-chip affordable high brightness 720p projectors, one that does not cut corners, has design shortcuts or is feature-crippled, and think I will live happily with it till there is a 1080p version of this it (maybe...hopefully... from Mitsubishi) :)

liebkid - Since a lot of us do not have external video processors, will you see how well the picture can be calibrated at the projector? The comments about the DVI controls not having the full range of color controls makes we wonder what can be done.

Thanks
Robert

I am also looking for answers, if the service menu is not accessible I might have to get an external video processor..Is there any video processor for HTPC's?

NICE picture!

If thing goes smooth, I'll see the WD2000 tomorrow! Can't wait! :)

regards,

Li On

liebkid,

Will you please zoom a bright 16:9 image as large as it can go and measure the vertical height of the beam coming out of the projector lens? Thanks in advance.

It's getting better each day...Thanks for taking the time and putting those pictures together. I have to agree that knowing what the PJ can do "out of the box" is nice to know. I am sure there a lot of users out there that either can't or won't invest the additional time and money needed to truly maximize the performace of the PJ. I am grateful for any information and knowing what to expect out of the box is a huge help.

Thanks again,
matt

liebkid - Since a lot of us do not have external video processors, will you see how well the picture can be calibrated at the projector? The comments about the DVI controls not having the full range of color controls makes we wonder what can be done. ThanksRobert, will do. I'm trying to find out about the service menu because I know there I'd be able to do everything necessary. Keep in mind that its mainly color BIAS and sharpness you cannot adjust on DVI. I believe with BrilliantColor Off (which its the way in the end will be anyway) you can also adjust contrast for each RGB channel giving you a little bit more control over color correction. I'll keep you posted. I'd be selling my two Crystalios-I soon on eBay or something like that, that I have not used. For full color calibration, great scaling, noise reduction and de-interlacing they are fantastic video processors. PM me if you want more info on them.

I am also looking for answers, if the service menu is not accessible I might have to get an external video processor. Is there any video processor for HTPC's?Retret, for HTPC's you don't need a video processor :) There are great pieces of software like PowerStrip that can allow you to do amazing color correction. Also, newer generation Nvidia and ATI cards have add-on software that allow you to tweak image parameters to exhaustion.

NICE picture! If thing goes smooth, I'll see the WD2000 tomorrow! Can't wait! :) regards, Li OnYay!!! You'll love it :)

liebkid, Will you please zoom a bright 16:9 image as large as it can go and measure the vertical height of the beam coming out of the projector lens? Thanks in advance.Shawn, I am not sure I understand exactly what you want me to measure as "the vertical height of the beam". Can you run that by me again? Thanks.

It's getting better each day...Thanks for taking the time and putting those pictures together. I have to agree that knowing what the PJ can do "out of the box" is nice to know. I am sure there a lot of users out there that either can't or won't invest the additional time and money needed to truly maximize the performance of the PJ. I am grateful for any information and knowing what to expect out of the box is a huge help. Thanks again.Hi Matt. Other than a slight green tint and a overly contrast push, this PJ actually comes fairly good out of the box. Getting rid of the tint is a snap (you won't get it perfect via DVI because only via analogue do you have access to control independent RGB channels gains, but close enough), and as far as contrast to avoid white clippings, setting it to 45% down from the 50% as it ships does the trick. Set all color enhancements to off, BrilliantColor to disabled, color temp to 6500K, Gamma to high CR and activate theatre mode and even the most stubborn in not wanting to spend much more time in getting the PJ any better, will have a picture on screen that will knock the socks off any real Movie Theatre on the block! That simple :)

thx liebkid, I will try powerstrip, for some reason purevideo from nvidia has a mediocre color control, or maybe I there is I just cant find it...I gotta readup more..

thx liebkid, I will try powerstrip, for some reason purevideo from nvidia has a mediocre color control, or maybe I there is I just cant find it...I gotta readup more..Purevideo sucks, everythign about it. Even its de-interlacing and scaling capabilities are mediocre when playing back SD DVD or HD content. Use good third-party decoding software:
- FFDSHOW for all your codecs and video playback control (this thing does e v e r y t h i n g you can imagine in real-time)... if only there was a video projector with this type of controls.
- Zoom player, the best player you can get for positively every video format.
- PowerStrip to control the video card's final output and core/memory clock settings.

You're set :)

Perhaps I should have said "dimension" since vertical "height" IS a bit redundant :)

Zoom to the largest full 16:9 image and place a piece of paper in front of the projector lens (about where you position the Isco). Measure the dimensions of the spot at that point. Since it's not that much more work at that point, please measure both vertical and horizontal dimensions. I'd like to know so that I can tell if it will work with our standard Panamorph lens.

I am very interested in this projector and if the reviews keep rolling in as favorable in the next few weeks as they have so far I will be buying one by the end of june. I currently have an Infocus 4805 using a 106" diag 16x9 format screen that i view at a distance of 15' to eliminate SDE (480P DLP 2x screen width rule).

After looking at page 12 of the manual for the WD2000U I am planning on the following config:

1. 119" diag screen (HC grey with 1.1 gain)

2. Primary seating 11.5' from screen (720P DLP 1.33x screen width rule).

3. Projector mounted 15.25' from screen (I believe this is the minimum distance for a 119" diag screen using the standard long throw lens, after i extrapulated the numbers they give on page 12 of the manual for 100" and 150" diag screen).

4. With a 119" diag screen i will need 511 lumens for the recomended 12 lumens per square foot, so i am figuring while the bulb is new i would use a ND2 filter and would need 1022 lumens from the projector. From Liebkid's review info so far it looks like this projector will have no problems producing 1022 lumens after calibration in low power mode. I was also thinking of installing a 119" diag retractable Dalite High power screen that i would use for Plazma TV emulator mode for daytime viewing with ambiant light.

I think this would be a good setup for Movie viewing on the 1.1 Gain HC grey screen. And for sporting events i would turn it into a 119" Plazma TV emulator by using the Da-lite High Power retractable Screen.

Liebkid,

Were your comparisons to the 8720 done with the ND filter on the 2000?

Thank you.

Finally a bright/ light canon 1 chip. It does indeed look very good build quality.
Good find Mr liebkid :)

the pc and macmall prices have changed.... i guess it was too good to be true

Maybe too early to ask, but how's things on the RBE front?.

It looks like it's going to be a good projector, my only issue is the bulb cost, $1720au in Australia. Mistubishi projectors are well priced down here but the bulb cost is a bit rich. Could be worse though the Sony Ruby bulb costs $2700au.

Liebkid

Thanks for the reviews - great info. What kind and size of ND filters are you using?

Liebkid, Were your comparisons to the 8720 done with the ND filter on the 2000? Thank you.Jim, ND on and PJ on low power. I have over 700 hours on the 8720 and I have to admit there has been a considerable light loss from the lamp as I recall it when the machine was new, while the Mitsu has a new bulb. Totally fair sides-by-sides should be done with machines with the same usage condition as far as hours goes on the lamps, otherwise, it is an unfair game. As far as video processing goes etc, the hours don't amount directly in technically any loss of video processing quality. As an HT PJ, the BenQ is more calibration-flexible from all input sources and has a better on-board video processing/scaling engine. As a display head unit ideally to be matched with an external video engine, the Mitsubishi hands down wins the game on all picture parameters except for absolute blacks (calibration not done yet). Technician in the house right now... he does NOT know the service menu but has been making calls. Mitsu changed the access codes on this machine. We are doing all work on the Crystalio-II.