I just finished running all the S&M (fitting name for this torture test, LOL) disk on a variety of processors. There's simply no comparison between SIL504 and ABT102. They're in completely different leagues.


Yes. but how often does these type of scenes happen on most disc? 1min or 2 mins of the whole movie (other then in movie)? But more noise and less sharpness will happen throughout the whole movie.... I just hope that DVDo spend all their time on solving the HDMI/audio issues then work on improving the noiser/scaling/EE issues and then work on adding some of the features they intended to add in like NLS/Gamma adjustments.

Oliver

I just got my new VP30 (with ABT102) via courier. Just as well I took the cover off to see what was inside - the ABT102 was only attached to the motherboard by the stand-off lugs!
I have re-seated the board, and now upgraded the VP30 to firmware version 1.7 (from 1.5). What I don't yet understand is "How do I tell if the ABT102 is working??? Is there a way of interrogating the VP30?

I just finished running all the S&M (fitting name for this torture test, LOL) disk on a variety of processors. There's simply no comparison between SIL504 and ABT102. They're in completely different leagues.
Are you going to create some kind of article/review about your comparison? Thanks!

Blackp,

Look in the INPUT ADJUST menu. If you see a "deinterlacing" option it is working. Make sure you are feeding the VP30 a 480i or 576i signal, otherwise the ABT-102 isn't being used.

I just got my new VP30 (with ABT102) via courier. Just as well I took the cover off to see what was inside - the ABT102 was only attached to the motherboard by the stand-off lugs!
I have re-seated the board, and now upgraded the VP30 to firmware version 1.7 (from 1.5). What I don't yet understand is "How do I tell if the ABT102 is working??? Is there a way of interrogating the VP30?

1) info screen it stated vp30/abt-102
2) the interlace menu
3) it passed most of the tests on the test dvd in the box.

Daniel.

I just finished running all the S&M (fitting name for this torture test, LOL) disk on a variety of processors. There's simply no comparison between SIL504 and ABT102. They're in completely different leagues.

So when will you post these 'reviews' ?

Daniel.

Is the ABT120 a pointless addition if you use a progressive scan DVD player?

Is the ABT120 a pointless addition if you use a progressive scan DVD player?

the ABT102 is primarely aimed at improving video deinterlacing, non-standard film cadence (like PAL & ANime) and edge enhacement (like DCDi).

even if you don't have the ABT102, you should be sending a 480i/576i signal to the DVDO from the DVD player.... don't choose the progressive output from your dvd player... otherwise you are bypassing the deinterlacing capability of the DVDO iScan..... which is probably superior to your DVD player's deinterlacing capability.

the ABT102 is primarely aimed at improving video deinterlacing, non-standard film cadence (like PAL & ANime) and edge enhacement (like DCDi).

even if you don't have the ABT102, you should be sending a 480i/576i signal to the DVDO from the DVD player.... don't choose the progressive output from your dvd player... otherwise you are bypassing the deinterlacing capability of the DVDO iScan..... which is probably superior to your DVD player's deinterlacing capability.

And NTSC? (since I'm not down under ;) )

It's much better at NTSC video also. The moving zone plate on Avia is an easy way to see this.

--Andre

I noticed that I am still seeing some weird line problems when I watch the Family Guy with the new ABT102. Has anyone else watched these dvd's with the ABT102?

Has there been any update on the some sort of documentation for the new test dvd for the ABT102?

Everyone seems to be down at the beach lately, but I'll post anyway - you can reply when you're back:

I've been watching some of the World Cup (soccer), and the deinterlacing is top notch with the ABT102, except when they show an instant replay. When they slow the video down in order to show what happened, and the video pretty much(or actually) stops, jaggies are very visible in the white markings on the grass. As soon as there is normal movement again, the jaggies are gone.

I noticed that I am still seeing some weird line problems when I watch the Family Guy with the new ABT102. Has anyone else watched these dvd's with the ABT102?

That's a problem with the show's animation. It isn't a deinterlacing error. It will look like that with any DVD player, processor, or display.

Everyone seems to be down at the beach lately, but I'll post anyway - you can reply when you're back:

I've been watching some of the World Cup (soccer), and the deinterlacing is top notch with the ABT102, except when they show an instant replay. When they slow the video down in order to show what happened, and the video pretty much(or actually) stops, jaggies are very visible in the white markings on the grass. As soon as there is normal movement again, the jaggies are gone.

Yeah but this is done at their side, i fully agree infact it also depends on what they are doing bothers me too. On HD there are many more problems so be glad since the normal SD with the 102 looks good. Same thing happens with F1 a huge jump with the 102 but some of the incar shots and replays contain problems.

Daniel.

Same thing happens with F1 a huge jump with the 102 but some of the incar shots and replays contain problems.


The 102 has improved the F1 broadcasts in the States, but it still looks pathetic in SD.

Thanks Josh, that is what I figured.

Stupid question, I have zero experience with video processors, gotta start sometime :) I am going to order the vp30 with the abt card, I am planning on using only the sd capability, I have a nec 50xr5, a A1 hddvd and a lg dvd player that does 480i over hdmi. My question is will I be able to set the vp only for the lg player and the sd channels of the cablebox( the box has 480i option) leaving the hd part to be handled by the plasma, does involve setup the unit again. I am really happy on how the nec handles the hd part on its own.
thanks

I'm considering picking up a VP30 + 102, but have 1 major concern.

When I last auditioned a HD+ unit a while back I failed in trying to get NR on my display and ended up with unused pixels which drove me nuts.

I'm running a Marantz PD5040D (NEC panel?) @ 1365x768p.

Is the VP30 capable of hitting this res on this display and does anyone know the magic timing settings to make it happen?

Thanks!

Stan

Stan - Here are the timings for NEC plasmas that I received from Ofer. The iScan HD+ and VP30 have the same capabilities when it comes to output timings controls so this may be a limitation of your display (ie it will not allow you to address the pixels 1:1 at the full resolution of the panel). All three of these output timings will be added in the next Beta software (1.08) which we hope to have in public release by this Friday at the earliest and early next week at the latest.

Thanks Josh, looking at those timings it looks like I was nowhere near on-target :)

Hopefully I'll have better luck this next time around!

Stan

Just purchased a VP30 and the ABT card (coming on Monday). I mainly watch sd material, so I think this will be a great purchase for me (crossing fingers).

About 4 months ago I bought a HD+ and was quite disappointed with the picture quality (sd). As someone mentioned before the HD+ output's a blurry picture. Also he mentioned that the VP30 does this as well. I really hope that's not the case. Guess I'll see on Monday.

Question for you fellow Oppo guys. I have a 971 that I run to a Sanyo Z4 via DVI-HDMI and the picture looks great. How does the Oppo look via svid to the VP30? Better than straight to the PJ/TV?

Anyone use this on a SD tivo yet?

A problem that I'm running into now is: my sat is outputting a 4x3 image to the tivo (svid) and the tivo out is component. The problem is that tivo out is stretching the image slightly (kinda like 4x3 in full mode, but not as wide). From what I can recall from the HD+, I was able to stretch the image back.

I really hope that the VP30 and the ABT can handle the svid from tivo and display a nice picture.

Sorry for the pointless post, just excited to see what the VP30 can do for me....

You will definitely be pleased with the VP30, ABT102 and the picture coming from your TiVo.

The Info page will have ABT102 on it and the extra options under deinterlacing (I think) will be un-greyed, i.e. game mode etc.

So I'm told. :rolleyes:


I have installed the ABT102 Card. BUT I do not get the ABT102 on info page. But I get the deinterlacing option??

i would be feeding this with a network media player based on the sigma chipset that cannot support 480i output over hdmi (zensonic, linkplayer, etc).....therefore i would have to feed the vp30/abt combo with SD video as component.

has anyone compared the 480i hdmi versus component performance, either from
480i video files or from dvd?

I have installed the ABT102 Card. BUT I do not get the ABT102 on info page. But I get the deinterlacing option??

The standard deinterlacing options ('Film Bias Mode', 'Video Mode' and 'Auto') will be available without the ABT102 installed. You should see 'VP30/ABT102' at the top of the info page and you should have access to all of the deinterlacing options, including '2:2 Even', '2:2 Odd', 'Game Mode 1' and 'Game Mode 2'. If you do not see this options, nor do you see 'VP30/ABT102' on the info screen I would suggest that you verify that the ABT102 is properly seated on the connector.

I have installed the ABT102 Card. BUT I do not get the ABT102 on info page. But I get the deinterlacing option??

You also need to update the VP30 firmware to version 1.07 if you haven't already.

cosmos - and if you already have the new firmware, but get no ABT on the info page, try the hard reboot method - so far has worked for me, and one other.

BTW, I can't take credit, someone on AVS sent me the NEC timing sheets.

BTW, I can't take credit, someone on AVS sent me the NEC timing sheets.

Thanks anyways oferlaor because someone sent the timings to you who sent the timings to josh who sent the timings to me... who needs them!

I decided to take the plunge and ordered a VP30 + ABT 102... hope it works!

I figure the worse case scenario is that they may end up in the for-sale forums :)

Stan

I'm switching from analog display (CRT PJ with Faroudja processor) to digital (Benq PE8720 and VP30/ABT102).

I understand the recommendation that you should use your DVD player's 480i output with the VP30/ABT102. Unfortunately, my Momitsu V880N insists on 480p output at a minimum.

Is the quality difference worth getting a new DVD player? I like the fact that the Momitsu is region-free and can play disks from the UK (and also ignores the Macrovision restrictions on upscaling, although I don't know if that will be important once the VP30 takes over the scaling).

If it matters, my not-yet-arrived PJ is a native-rate 720P (Benq PE8720).

I was under the impression that the strength of the VP30/ABT102 was the de-interlacing power with SD materials.

If that is the case, bypassing the de-interlace step by outputting 480p from the dvd player wouldn't be ideal as that'll leave the 102 upgrade with nothing to do (although the VP30 would still scale the image).

Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Stan

I'm switching from analog display (CRT PJ with Faroudja processor) to digital (Benq PE8720 and VP30/ABT102).

I understand the recommendation that you should use your DVD player's 480i output with the VP30/ABT102. Unfortunately, my Momitsu V880N insists on 480p output at a minimum.

Is the quality difference worth getting a new DVD player? I like the fact that the Momitsu is region-free and can play disks from the UK (and also ignores the Macrovision restrictions on upscaling, although I don't know if that will be important once the VP30 takes over the scaling).

If it matters, my not-yet-arrived PJ is a native-rate 720P (Benq PE8720).
Doesn't the Momitsu do 480i out over component? If you want a digital 480i out the new Oppo player does that over HDMI.

If you're going to have a VP30/ABT102 in the chain you don't need any up-conversion done in the player.

I searched and did not find this info, anyone see the review of the ABT102 from Secrets? Here is a link for it (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=128#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor%20wit h%20ABT%20Precision%20De-interlacing%20(HDMI))

Jim

I was under the impression that the strength of the VP30/ABT102 was the de-interlacing power with SD materials.

If that is the case, bypassing the de-interlace step by outputting 480p from the dvd player wouldn't be ideal as that'll leave the 102 upgrade with nothing to do (although the VP30 would still scale the image).

Stan

Exactly - if you only feed the VP30 480p or higher resolution, the ABT102 need not be there. In order to see the benefits, you MUST send the VP 480i (or 576i if you are in palland.)

When my VP was not recognizing the ABT card, I got no picture whatsoever when I tried to view an interlaced source. But when I switched to 480p or HD inputs, I had a picture. And yes, the VP still transcodes and scales the HD sources, but the ABT is not involved.

Exactly - if you only feed the VP30 480p or higher resolution, the ABT102 need not be there. In order to see the benefits, you MUST send the VP 480i (or 540i if you are in palland.)

576i for PAL, not 540i.

The standard deinterlacing options ('Film Bias Mode', 'Video Mode' and 'Auto') will be available without the ABT102 installed. You should see 'VP30/ABT102' at the top of the info page and you should have access to all of the deinterlacing options, including '2:2 Even', '2:2 Odd', 'Game Mode 1' and 'Game Mode 2'. If you do not see this options, nor do you see 'VP30/ABT102' on the info screen I would suggest that you verify that the ABT102 is properly seated on the connector.

Josh, I have upgrade the VP30 to version 1.07 and I have installed the "daughter card" ABT102. In the "INPUT ADJUST" under the Deinterlacing section I have all the above options from "Film Bias Mode" to "Game Mode 2".

However, when I press info. the display does not show 'VP30/ABT102'. It shows:
"iscan VP30 - v1.07 DVDO Powered by ABT".

Why is there a discrepancy? I wonder if the feature is working as it should be?

Frankly, I hope there is a problem because the some of the SD output on my
Cablevision stations is terrible.

Taekwon - Have you tried a 'Factory Default' (In the 'Configuration' submenu) to see if that eliminates the issue?

With your cable box, are you sure that you are sending the VP30 an SD interlaced signal (480i)?

576i for PAL, not 540i.


sorry :o

Taekwon - Have you tried a 'Factory Default' (In the 'Configuration' submenu) to see if that eliminates the issue?

With your cable box, are you sure that you are sending the VP30 an SD interlaced signal (480i)?

Josh, thanks for the quick response. I'll try the 'Factory Default' when I'm home tomorrow and I'll let you know what happens.

Yes, I am absolutely sure that I'm sending a 480i signal to the VP30. The cable box I have is the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD. The HD pictures are outstanding (as you would expect) but the 480i transmissions really look bad...
so much so that I have resorted to watching most SD on an Svideo output from the cable box to my projector.

However, when I press info. the display does not show 'VP30/ABT102'. It shows:
"iscan VP30 - v1.07 DVDO Powered by ABT".

Why is there a discrepancy? I wonder if the feature is working as it should be? Look at the OSD, not the unit's own display, which should show exactly what you wrote.

Is it better for the ABT102 if I set the frame rate to "Unlocked 50Hz" (for 50Hz sources - I'm in PAL land) than to "Locked 50Hz", or should it not matter?
I was theorising that perhaps it would be easier for the ABT102 to lock on if I made the VP30 'follow' the input's frame rate by setting it to "Unlocked 50Hz".

Having used the ABT102 for a month or so(?) for both digital SD cable and DVDs, I think I'll conclude that it's pretty much flawless with everything.

The only consistent 'fault' is when video is paused, either in a broadcast or when you personally pause a DVD. Then all the jaggies that are possible to conjure will appear. I also see jaggies when fast forwarding using my Pioneer DV-490V-S DVD-player.

-It may be that after a while you get so used to seeing smooth edges and lines that you react especially strongly when you see these jaggies, but I can't say I can remember seeing such prominent jaggies on paused (or "fast forwarded")material before I got the ABT102. Again - it may be because I am now spoiled by the ABT102. Not sure.


Overall very happy with it though.

In some rare cases I have seen jaggies even with the ABT102 in normal viewing conditions (on SD digital cable), but I attribute that to faulty source material, because it seems that as long as the source is good, there are no jaggies or combing or the like.

John P.,


My assessment is basically the same as yours.
Running Oppo 970 into Sammy HLP5685w.

John P. and Oink,

It is my recollection from reading in the VP30 thread that some players, when paused, are only sending 1 interlaced field out of the 2 fields that are needed to make one progressive frame. Hence jaggies.

Mike

Yes, I know - it's just that I can't remember seeing it from before I got the ABT102, especially not in broadcasts, let's say in a commercial, where it's paused just before the next commercial is up, or in a soccer game when the video is paused briefly after an instant replay.

But as mentioned, it could be that I was seeing these things before as well, but that back then I was more used to seeing jaggies all the time, so I didn't notice as much in the same conditions. I'm not sure if that's the reason though.

although I see no difference in watching sd dvds, I will say that the new card makes sd tivo look much nicer. thanks.

dave

Well, I found a new torture test for the ABT102. On the "16 Blocks" DVD, when you choose the Deleted Scenes feature it plays the movie footage (in non-anamorphic letterbox) with a video overlay of the director and screenwriter speaking in the corner of the screen. Using the ABT102 in "Auto" mode, that video footage has the worst combing artifacts that I've ever seen. Setting for a "Video" bias helps somewhat, but it's still an unstable mess, and the movie footage looks worse.

Josh,

If you set to video and still see combing, that is most likely in the source as you can't comb in video.

Have you tried watching it on another progressive player? You probably won't see the combing on an interlaced display and this stuff is most likely QCd that way.

If you set to video and still see combing, that is most likely in the source as you can't comb in video.

Have you tried watching it on another progressive player? You probably won't see the combing on an interlaced display and this stuff is most likely QCd that way.

Stacey,

I have no doubt the source is poor. I only see the combing in "Auto" mode. With "Video", the image is very jittery but doesn't comb. Yes, it looks stable on a 480i display.

I really hate to say this because I love the VP30 otherwise and everyone else seems to think this chip is the cat's meow, but the more I use the ABT102 the less and less impressed by it I am. It does great with synthetic patterns and the specific tests on their disc and the HQV disc, but with real world movie watching I've found problems on almost every disc I play.

There's the infamous dropping in and out of video mode on the Star Wars prologue scroll, as noted by others. I've seen this on other discs as well. Then last night I was playing The Fifth Element Ultimate Editon and the opening credits are a shimmery mess. There's also a lot of jaggedness in the curved lines on Bruce Willis' orange shirt at the 41:30 mark. Shouldn't the ABT102's edge adaptive processing do better with material like that? Both problems are reduced using Faroudja deinterlacing. In fact, I tested both using the generally inadequate Mediatek deinterlacing in the Oppo 970HD and even that handled them better.

Also, the "Auto" setting has failed pretty badly on some of the PAL movie discs I've watched. I usually have to manually switch to one of the 2:2 settings whenever I watch a PAL disc.

I don't want to sound negative. I do have faith that DVDO can further improve the product, but from what I'm seeing right now I find the ABT102 to be pretty highly overrated.

I only see the combing in "Auto" mode. With "Video", the image is very jittery but doesn't comb.

I misunderstood your post, I am sorry.

The more examples of improper deinterlacing you find, the better. If possibe, I would send all examples to ABT so they can further tune their product.

The more examples of improper deinterlacing you find, the better. If possibe, I would send all examples to ABT so they can further tune their product.

Yes, I know. Lately I've been spending most of my time watching HD and haven't had a chance to catalog SD playback issues. It just seems like every time I do try to watch something SD via the VP30/ABT102 I find a new problem.

Thank you, thank you. I'm no expert at video processing, so when I thought that the VPT30/ABT102 wasn't doing as good a job in some respects as my 5-year-old Faroudja DVP-2200, I didn't have the confidence to say anything. I'm addicted to Turner Classic Movies, which I watch on a DirecTiVo. I caught Buck Privates last night and Lou's herringbone sport jacket had lots of artifacts. I'm sorry, I'm not expert enough to say what kind, but there were lots of other incidents in other movies as well.

I hopefully will get my ABT card this week and was wondering If it's better to use 1,07 than 1.08? Sounds like 1.08 has some problems with this card.

I hopefully will get my ABT card this week and was wondering If it's better to use 1,07 than 1.08? Sounds like 1.08 has some problems with this card.

If you're using PAL, then I'd say 1.07 for sure - 1.08 has some real pciture quality issues at the moment.

If you're using PAL, then I'd say 1.07 for sure - 1.08 has some real pciture quality issues at the moment.

Ive also downgraded to 1.07, and get a clear feeling it is better but can't really put my finger on it what it is. It just looks like less jaggies overall. Very clear on things like soccer but not so clear i can provide good feedback. Did you downgrade and analyse what it was ?

Daniel.

Hi all!

Finally I got my VP30+ABT102. Took about 3 months... makes you wonder where the hickups where? Anyway... I finally got it, and its time to move on.

I played around yesterday and finally ended up with the ABT102 DVD.
Went thru all the test patterns etc and moved on to the "movie-sequencies".

What am I suppose to see there?
I am refering especially to the race-track, rope and those.
Are the ABT102 supposed to get rid of all the jaggies, moire etc that is visible there.
The racetrack is awful... the seats etc in the back there are bad...

I am using a HK DVD25 using component 480i output (I think, although the info screen says 576i@50Hz (I'm in PAL-land, but with a regionfree player)).
The VP30 is connected to a TX-200 PJ with what I beleive is 1:1 pixel mapped.

Could it be something the DVD25 does? Any ideas?
I plan to get a Oppo 790 or another 480i HDMI capable player in the future so I'm wondering if these issues are DVD player based or if I'm supposed to see these features on the ABT DVD.

Thanks for all you help. Great forum.

M.

I am using a HK DVD25 using component 480i output (I think, although the info screen says 576i@50Hz (I'm in PAL-land, but with a regionfree player)).
Sounds like your DVD player is converting 480i to 576i internally, and not outputting 480i. The give away is info screen saying 576i@50Hz, it should say 480i@60Hz.

This would explain the horrible results you are describing.

This is usually fixed by changing 'output' option of DVD player from 'PAL' to 'AUTO', even my daughters in car fifty-quid DVD can output 480i/576i so your player should have this option available.

StooMonster

"Auto" setting has failed pretty badly on some of the PAL movie discs I've watched. I usually have to manually switch to one of the 2:2 settings whenever I watch a PAL disc.
Josh Z, got any specific example DVDs that we can check out too? Got access to loads of Region 2 DVDs here in UK. :)

StooMonster

I have a question please regarding the processor and this card.

I have posted in AVS a few times about my disappointment with the picture quality of sdtv coming out of my SA8300hd cable box via component, through my Marantz SR8500 AVR and then to a 45" Sharp Aquos LCD(1080p resolution but only accepts up to 1080i input). Could I use this processor in between my cable box and AVR to upgrade the sd quality even though I use the same connections for the high def channels? In other words, by setting the VP30 with this card to upconvert and fix the sd signal, will it screw up the hd signals which are pretty good imho.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like your DVD player is converting 480i to 576i internally, and not outputting 480i. The give away is info screen saying 576i@50Hz, it should say 480i@60Hz.

This would explain the horrible results you are describing.

This is usually fixed by changing 'output' option of DVD player from 'PAL' to 'AUTO', even my daughters in car fifty-quid DVD can output 480i/576i so your player should have this option available.

StooMonster

Fast feedback, nice with people on this side of the pond as well... ;)
Will look into that after work today. Especially verify the 576i info screen.

------------update-----------
Jupp... checked my DVD-player settings. And there it was: "set to PAL" (how did that happended :rolleyes: ). Sat it back to "auto" and now every little artifact on the ABT102 DVD are gone ;)
Much better... thanks!

Fast feedback, nice with people on this side of the pond as well... ;)
Will look into that after work today. Especially verify the 576i info screen.

yes remember its a ntsc disc i also have seen several pal people not seeing any 'upgrade' since the player was converting. The 'wedge' test is the easest to see it should be alot better than when you feed it progressive. The first time we checked this we used 2 vp30 (one with 102 and one without) and a ntsc/pal converting dvd player and weird thing it looked very close to the 504 on many tests then. Once we made sure it was sending 480i the differemce was very clear right away. So having a converting dvd player looks alot like you did' add anything ...

Daniel.

IN addition to the Star Wars opening crawl issue that I raised previously, I've been noticing artifacts on other dvd's, as well. I was watching The Untouchables dvd the other night. The paragraph that introduces the story (in the opening shot of the film) pulsates or "dances" like the Star Wars text. In this and other movies, signs in the movie also shimmer or wiggle like that (the Racine street sign in The Untouchables, for example).

Sometimes, the picture looks great. Some dvd's look very close to HD (very similar to how they look on my Sony 975 upscaled or Denon 3910), but then the "dancing" starts.

These shimmering or pulsating effects on letters and numbers are getting very distracting. I didn't have this with my upscaling Sony or Denon players (or with any of the other deinterlacers I've used, come to think of it).

I've tried it with both my Sony 975 and new Oppo 970 running 480i HDMI to the ABT.

ALso, the auto switching rarely works and when it does, the picture often goes blank after a few minutes. I have no idea why it would suddenly lose the signal.

I'm not trying to be negative or put ABT down. But to be honest, this is the most expensive deinterlacer set-up I own and the one that seems to perform the worst.

Is there any way for DVDO to fix this?

I I have posted in AVS a few times about my disappointment with the picture quality of sdtv coming out of my SA8300hd cable box via component, through my Marantz SR8500 AVR and then to a 45" Sharp Aquos LCD(1080p resolution but only accepts up to 1080i input). Could I use this processor in between my cable box and AVR to upgrade the sd quality even though I use the same connections for the high def channels? In other words, by setting the VP30 with this card to upconvert and fix the sd signal, will it screw up the hd signals which are pretty good imho.

Thanks in advance.


From my experience with SD Sat. signal the ABT102 seems to enhance the issues present in the signal not vise versa. It seems the Si was able to better mask the errors present so in your situation I don't think your going to get the results you hope for.

These shimmering or pulsating effects on letters and numbers are getting very distracting, new Oppo 970 running 480i HDMI to the ABT.
I'm not trying to be negative or put ABT down.
Is there any way for DVDO to fix this?


Me too.

Just as an additional item - on the Yankees game last night - ESPN2, sd - over cable, into LG4200, component into the VP30/ABT102. I noticed a lot more moire on the panned crowd shots than I had before. But it could well be a function of the incoming signal - overall, the picture was the best SD I have seen yet. So possibly, with the clean sharp input signal, I get a moire pattern that may be lost in background noise on another day.

But Josh and team - definitely not bitching - I was scaling to 720p, and the display was truly stunning. Not hd, but finally very close. Which is why I noticed a bit of moire. You guys can't win, can you? ;)

Josh Z, got any specific example DVDs that we can check out too? Got access to loads of Region 2 DVDs here in UK. :)

I don't have the specific time codes handy, but there's a couple of examples in the R2 UK Special Edition of Dune.

Is there any way for DVDO to fix this?

Well - if there is, how exactly will they fix it for all of us? As far as I've gathered, the ABT102 card is not made to be firmware upgradable. This means that for any update that would fix issues, we would have to return our ABT102 cards (or the entire VP30) to either the reseller in our vicinity/country or to DVDO directly. I'm not sure I'd be interested in that.
That said, I haven't really noticed a lot of problems, so that's probably why such a solution doesn't sound too good to me personally. A few glitches here and there sure, but I have mostly attributed it to the source (perhaps wrongfully so). I'm pretty happy with my VP30/ABT102 combo so far.

I think I've stumbled across something important (when it comes to ABT102 and PAL performance):

Earlier, I made a post here where I described having seen three different documentaries on two different TV channels, on the same day. And all these documentaries had the worst case of 'jaggies' I've ever seen. Ever.

I removed the content of that post though, because I concluded that it was probably due to bad source material; that the jagginess was part of the signal.

Today though, I happened to catch a re-run of the Scandinavian version of 'Survivor'. And there it was again. Every conceivable line and edge had aliasing. It actually looks more like if the picture had been scaled up without adding pixels to it - that's the best I can describe it.

But this time I went through all the different Deinterlacing options. Last time I only tried 'Film Bias Mode' and 'Video Mode'.


The only option that fixed the problem, was the 'Game Mode 1' option (for some reason, 'Game Mode 2' did not fix it).
With 'Game Mode 1' chosen, the image was again 'perfect' with no jaggies/pixelation, however the picture then became noticeably "jitterish" - as if the frame rate had been lowered enough to notice.



From this, it seems that the ABT102 card has problems with PAL sources made from handheld digital cameras, the kind you often find in small, low budget documentaries and also it seems in a little higher budget things like (Scandinavian) Survivor. I don't know if this makes any sense from a technical point of view for those of you who are knowledgeable about these things; I'm just describing what I see.

Any thoughts?


Now that I know this, I can switch to 'Game Mode 1' when needed, but again - it creates "jitters", and I can't use it when I switch to another channel or the programming changes, so I would manually have to change it from time to time.

John

What version of firmware are you running - it tells you if you pull up the info screen. If you're running 1.08, you might want to downgrade to 1.07. A few of us have seen problems with jaggies with PAL source material with 1.08 which didn't exist with 1.07. Other than that, I've had my 102 for a while now, and haven't seen any bad cases of jaggies at all.

pete S

The problems reported above are when using firmware 1.07.
I haven't tried 1.08 yet.

-Please note that 99,5% of the material I feed it is handled properly, though.

Does the ABT102 add CUE? I have 2 DVD players: Denon 1600 (by SDI) and Oppo 970HD (by 480i HDMI). On neither one did I ever need to turn on the chroma filter when using the Sil504 deinterlacing chip, but now I see what looks like CUE artifacts in patches of deep colors unless I turn on the filter.

I'm on the 1.07 firmware if that helps.

No, the ABT does not add CUE. This only occurs when going from 420 to 422, which is done inside the DVD player.

Any chance what you are watching is encoded as interlaced? If so, you may be seeing ICP, which happens to look just like CUE.

The only option that fixed the problem, was the 'Game Mode 1' option (for some reason, 'Game Mode 2' did not fix it).
With 'Game Mode 1' chosen, the image was again 'perfect' with no jaggies/pixelation, however the picture then became noticeably "jitterish" - as if the frame rate had been lowered enough to notice.

I'm guessing this is a source error, and specifically:

I suspect the source had a problem where fields were out of order. This could be reversed fields (so the fields that in time should be A B C D E F are actually B A D C F E), or more likely, repeated frames (which also causes out-of-order fields: so A B C D E F G H becomes A B C D C D E F, or similar). Perhaps earlier in the PAL to NTSC conversion process, certain frames were repeated.

What happens is that the motion adaptive deinterlacer detects "stillness" when 5 fields in a row are identical (meaning 3 even and 2 odd, or 2 even and 3 odd, or more, are identical), and therefore weaves them. When, in fact, they are not from the same film frame, so you get terrible artifacts.

The biggest reason I suspect this is because Game Mode 1 fixes the problem, which Dale stated in an earlier post never weaves pixels. Meaning, every frame always only has data from a single field. However, because fields are out of order, you still get time judder artifacts, but you get no deinterlacing artifacts that are visible in a single frame.

So, I'm not certain that is the problem, but that's my best guess. :)

Thanks - that explanation seems logical to me. :)

Most of the programs I see are after all handled correctly using the Auto setting, so I'm going to assume that when I do see artifacts, it's most likely in the source and not ABT102s fault.

No, the ABT does not add CUE. This only occurs when going from 420 to 422, which is done inside the DVD player.

Any chance what you are watching is encoded as interlaced? If so, you may be seeing ICP, which happens to look just like CUE.

Thanks for the clarification, Stacey.

Yes, it was an anime disc that WinDVD confirms is flagged as interlaced.

I have lots of PAL DV clips I can check, I'll give it a shot in the next couple of days using 1.07 and I'll also try 1.08.

Every conceivable line and edge had aliasing. It actually looks more like if the picture had been scaled up without adding pixels to it - that's the best I can describe it.

But this time I went through all the different Deinterlacing options. Last time I only tried 'Film Bias Mode' and 'Video Mode'.

The only option that fixed the problem, was the 'Game Mode 1' option (for some reason, 'Game Mode 2' did not fix it).
With 'Game Mode 1' chosen, the image was again 'perfect' with no jaggies/pixelation, however the picture then became noticeably "jitterish" - as if the frame rate had been lowered enough to notice.

From this, it seems that the ABT102 card has problems with PAL sources made from handheld digital cameras, the kind you often find in small, low budget documentaries and also it seems in a little higher budget things like (Scandinavian) Survivor. I don't know if this makes any sense from a technical point of view for those of you who are knowledgeable about these things; I'm just describing what I see.

Any thoughts?
Thoughts? Yes.

Dale Adams and I (remotely) investigated a similar problem I was seeing on some British tv shows -- which was (mostly) solved by putting VP30 into 'Game Mode 1'.

Intrigued?

Programme (bless my International English spelling) was BBC's 'Top Gear', a fun car orientated show where in certain segments every conceivable line and edge had aliasing -- sound familiar?

I identified the problem material, and found DVD for Dale to purchase; couple of days later he was able to see and analyse the problem.

Cause: digital effects applied in post production. Specifically running a 2:2 pulldown filter on 'video source' material to make it look like 'film sourced' (i.e. 25 frames per second).

This post production effect encodes the alias artefacts straight into the video! But 'Game Mode 1' cleans it up a bit and makes it look better.

I've since seen similar on lots of shows, especially car review ones, and even some dramas and documentaries; anywhere that has applied a cheap "film filter" really.

Also, you can see this when you run it though different VPs too, it has same problem without ABT102 on iScan (using SiI504) and also with Lumagen scalers (again SiI504) and Center Stage (all my old scalers are SiI504!).

This "problem" is not caused by ABT102, nor firmware version, it is caused by post production

StooMonster

I don't have the specific time codes handy, but there's a couple of examples in the R2 UK Special Edition of Dune.
The David Lynch movie, the Sci-Fi Channel's mini-series, or the half movie / half video "extended" version of the David Lynch movie?

StooMonster

The David Lynch movie, the Sci-Fi Channel's mini-series, or the half movie / half video "extended" version of the David Lynch movie?

StooMonster

This one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0000AISLP/202-5699410-0770259?v=glance&n=283926

This one too:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0009HL4OK/402-0582769-6277757?v=glance&n=405322&s=dvd&v=glance

I am sure if you can find approximate time-codes of scene selection, and post them, Dale would be happy to buy the DVD and see exactly what is going on. He solved the 'Top Gear' mystery really quickly!

StooMonster

just an update, I tried various content sources and also DV sources with both 1.07 and 1.08 (you can just guess how long it took me to downgrade, watch them all, upgrade and then do it again).

I couldn't find a problem at all... It's not a general problem, I think, but something more localized to either the source, the specific ABT102 card or something like that..

just an update, I tried various content sources and also DV sources with both 1.07 and 1.08 (you can just guess how long it took me to downgrade, watch them all, upgrade and then do it again).

I couldn't find a problem at all... It's not a general problem, I think, but something more localized to either the source, the specific ABT102 card or something like that..

Thanks for testing, it all leaves us a little confused i guess. Some users in europe are now reporting the problem can be solved by doing a hardreset i wonder about that is a update and the following reset not a hardreset by itself ? ifnot what memory is still active after
a software updrade ?

Daniel.

Thoughts? Yes.

....

This "problem" is not caused by ABT102, nor firmware version, it is caused by post production

StooMonster

LOL! - (as they say nowadays):

-Just before I came on here, I was again watching a rerun of Scandinavian Survivor (because of the jaggy problem, not the program contents...) and I took out my digital camera and took one close up with the VP30 set to Auto, and one with it set to Game Mode 1, just to show you people the difference.

Then, when I come here, I go back one page, and you've explained the whole thing! :D

So OK - not the ABT102s fault, then. :)

I guess in most instances, I should assume that combing and jaggies are caused by the source and not ABT102.

But I have seen for instance one commercial here that is very fast moving (it's on board a plane doing a loop-de-loop(?), with added "turbulence"), and with the ABT102 there is a short instance (microsecond) of noticeable combing (I think it's combing). When watching the same commercial using the TVs own deinterlacer (not connected the VP30 at all), I couldn't notice this problem in this particular commercial.
Maybe it was masked by the slightly less sharp image from the TV itself without the VP30 though...

That said, I'm wondering if maybe I should do a hard reset or reinstall the firmware or something, because (long story short) I was watching the TV without VP30 attached for a while, and with my TV I actually didn't notice much of a difference in PQ. On my last screen, which was an SD plasma, there was a very noticeable difference, but not so much on my new TV set (a Sony 50" 1280x720 3LCD rear-projection unit). I could see some more jaggies in soccer games etc., but the internal scaling didn't seem much worse than that of the VP30.

Admittedly, this screen is (probably because it's rear-projection) not as crystal clear and sharp as the very best LCDs/plasmas out there, so maybe it masks the actual PQ difference I should get from the VP30. It gives a very nice and agreeable picture though.

-Am I rambling on? Oh - I guess I am... :o

Thanks to you and Dale (and Oferlaor) for checking my original 'problem' out though. :)

occasional combing is fine, we were trying to find the severe jaggy issue...

occasional combing is fine, we were trying to find the severe jaggy issue...
RE: "severe jaggy" (in PAL) see post #328 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7956895&&#post7956895) above.

StooMonster

I hope Dale is reading this. Using 1.07 and the ABT102 card, I've noticed really strange artifacts on a DVD I just got. Basically when things are still, the picture's sharp, but as soon as there's motion, things get very blurry and there are ghost images. I've heard one other anecdotal report from someone who sees this on a normal interlaced TV set, and I can easily believe a mastering problem.

The DVD is Jewels, a performance of Balanchine's Jewels ballet by the Paris Opera Ballet on Opus Arte. It should be readily available at Borders, Amazon and other places like that. It's all over the place in the dancing sequences, but even in the documentary, when a talking head moves a bit, the head goes blurry. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FA577G/qid=1152506233/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2798198-7851029?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

I believe this production was shot in HD and then converted to NTSC. I have other Opus Arte DVDs of the POB, and none of them have these artifacts. Perhaps they messed this one up. I'm wondering if there is anything that be done to fix this up: motion artifacts in a dance performance is especially bad.

--Andre

Stoo,

I saw it, I was just describing what we were looking for.

oferlaor, was confused. :confused:

Hopefully this "issue" is now resolved. Are there any other 'PAL' issues out there? :rolleyes:

StooMonster

Hi. I bought and watched the first PAL disc I was able to get and played it throught my new Oppo player. The picture was pretty lousey and I'm not sure if it was the disc, the player or the vp30. I went back to SilIm card a while back because I was frustrated with all the artifacts I was getting with the ABT. When there's a better fix, I'll reinstall it.

It was the region 4 disc of Child's Play (I know, not a great movie, but all I could get that I'd even heard of!). It was non-anamorphic, first of all. But it also had very jerky motion (something I've seen on several R1 discs played on the Oppo), lots of artifacts, just looked nowhere near as good as my R1 discs.

Is there a conversion from PAL to NTSC that the Oppo is doing that I could let the vp30 do instead?

I've never gotten into other region discs, so I don't know how it works exactly. I couldn't find anything in the menus of the Oppo 970 or the vp30.

Can anyone tell me how this works?

Thanks!

The Oppo needs to be set on auto, (not NTSC as the default). The Oppo needs also be set on 576i output. Have you done these?

In the Vantage thread, Bob Sorel has a DVD which produces lots of artifacts on the Vantage HD, but is fine through a CrystalioII. The disc is Ultraviolet, has anyone tried this with the ABT102?

In the Vantage thread, Bob Sorel has a DVD which produces lots of artifacts on the Vantage HD, but is fine through a CrystalioII. The disc is Ultraviolet, has anyone tried this with the ABT102?


I just played this disc last week and it looked fine on the ABT102. This show was using live actors/actress but smoothed to a graphics like look. So I guess it was more video then film? Perhaps it was actually filmed with a blue screen then edited, so a mixed animation/film cadence.

Oliver

Yes, I did that and know it seems the vp30 is doing the PAL conversion and it looks much better. Thanks!

Although, I got tired of seeing too many artifacts with the ABT 102, so I actually removed it went back to firmware 1.05 and the Silicon Image chip for now. I'm waiting for a firmware release that's without so many glitches. Judging by the recent posts, there's a long way to go.

Although, I got tired of seeing too many artifacts with the ABT 102, so I actually removed it went back to firmware 1.05 and the Silicon Image chip for now.

-Could you explain what kind of artifacts you are seeing with the ABT102 and not with the Sil504 chip and/or other chips? So that others can say if we've been seeing the same thing, or maybe if it's caused by a bad source and not really the 102s fault?

I noticed "wiggling" or shimmering in some opening credits (the opening crawl pf SW Ep. was the first. I started to see it very often when there was a paragraph or credits on the screen, or often with a sign within a movie, like a street sign (In The Untouchables, for example) or numbers in the movie. With the ABT card gone, these artifacts are gone, too. This is not to say it isn't a great deinterlacer, but....

ABT says they're working on a fix for this kind of thing, so I hope to put the ABT back in at some point.

hifichip76,


Yeah, I get the same thing...basically any text or graphic has this going on around it.
Bummer...

hifichip76,


Yeah, I get the same thing...basically any text or graphic has this going on around it.
Bummer...


This is what I have been seeing as well. When comparing with the Lumagen and Vantage, it is very obvious. At first I thought it was due to scaling. But looking at resolution wedges, it seems that the VP30 is quite clean. So it must be due to other factors that introduce this mosquito like noise on text and graphics. I too have not gotten any answers from DVD even though I send a email direct to DVDo and some over here in this forum as well.

Oliver

This is what I have been seeing as well. When comparing with the Lumagen and Vantage, it is very obvious. At first I thought it was due to scaling. But looking at resolution wedges, it seems that the VP30 is quite clean. So it must be due to other factors that introduce this mosquito like noise on text and graphics. I too have not gotten any answers from DVD even though I send a email direct to DVDo and some over here in this forum as well.

Oliver

I think you are talking about 2 different things, Im not sure if this is it but it seems the dl102 might show some extra noise/mosq effects because of the way the deinterlacer works (if i remember Dale's coments correctly) because it detects movement better and acts making some types of noise more clear in a weird twist of things.

Daniel.

I think you are talking about 2 different things, Im not sure if this is it but it seems the dl102 might show some extra noise/mosq effects because of the way the deinterlacer works (if i remember Dale's coments correctly) because it detects movement better and acts making some types of noise more clear in a weird twist of things.

Daniel.

I'm new at this, so forgive me if this is irrelevant or my terminology is incorrect.

I've noticed what I think are similar problems around lettering, sort of a ghost effect, except that it is static. A notable example is, using an SD DirecTiVo, the graphics superimposed over the Tour de France on OLN.

Is this something I should report to ABT?

BTW, I turned sharpness from 2 to 0 in the Benq PE8720 PJ but didn't see a change in the artifact.

I'm new at this, so forgive me if this is irrelevant or my terminology is incorrect.

I've noticed what I think are similar problems around lettering, sort of a ghost effect, except that it is static. A notable example is, using an SD DirecTiVo, the graphics superimposed over the Tour de France on OLN.

Is this something I should report to ABT?

BTW, I turned sharpness from 2 to 0 in the Benq PE8720 PJ but didn't see a change in the artifact.

In my system with the TdF this is Mosquito Noise, which is an artifact of compression. In some of the shots with the peloton in the mountains it literally looks like a swarm around the riders (at least at 18" on 92" screen).

Riders in a Swarm? swarm, storm, whatever. Wasn't that a great hit by the Doors a number of years ago? Josh is too young to remember.

Josh. Please read the Cedia dinner thread. Hope you and Dale can and will attend.

Riders in a Swarm? swarm, storm, whatever. Wasn't that a great hit by the Doors a number of years ago? Josh is too young to remember

You mean the movie was real?!?

In my system with the TdF this is Mosquito Noise, which is an artifact of compression. In some of the shots with the peloton in the mountains it literally looks like a swarm around the riders (at least at 18" on 92" screen).

What about the black on yellow lettering on their pop-up scoreboards and such? At 11 ft on a 6ft x 4.5 ft screen there are lots of faint scribbles around the black letters. Is that also mosquito noise?

(And is it the VP30 that is downscaling Landis' performance? :D )

The new "Pinky And The Brain" Volume 1 DVDs seem to give the ABT102 much trouble. It looks like the deinterlacer is dropping in and out of lock as edges seem sharp for a second and then break up, then sharp, etc. It's admittedly not a great transfer, and the problem could be in the source, but viewing this at 480i on a CRT doesn't appear to exhibit the same alternating sharp/breakup problem.

- Collin

i Wrote this somewhere else in the forum also .... Pulp FIcion DVD, R1 (original release) and R4 (anniversary edition) - the first and second chapter are pretty much unwatcheable... not sure if its the ABT102 per se, or just my card.... lots of jaggies, moire .... I couldn't watch it.... one of my favourite movies....

Edit - I'm using Software version 1.09a - have done a hard reboot after installing the firmware. DVD is Oppo 970, sending native rate (480i/576i) via HDMI to the VP30.

To add my 2 cents worth here too. I've noticed artifacts (severe combing like) on fast moving objects - mostly on PAL FTA 576i SD braodcasts. I've reported on this before, but of late I'm beginning to see it more often. Typically, if you have a rapidly scanning laser beam, it will show severe breakup. Slow down the playback speed to half or a quarter and the effect disappears. I've recorded a short 2 min clip of this, so if Dale or anyone else in DVDO would like it sent to them, please let me know.

i Wrote this somewhere else in the forum also .... Pulp FIcion DVD, R1 (original release) and R4 (anniversary edition) - the first and second chapter are pretty much unwatcheable... not sure if its the ABT102 per se, or just my card.... lots of jaggies, moire .... I couldn't watch it.... one of my favourite movies....

Edit - I'm using Software version 1.09a - have done a hard reboot after installing the firmware. DVD is Oppo 970, sending native rate (480i/576i) via HDMI to the VP30.

Inspired by this post I just watched Pulp Fiction R1 original release up through the Big Kahuna Burger sequence. The transfer is old and non-anamorphic so the picture quality is less than stellar though the VP30 does an impressive job with what it's given. I didn't notice many deinterlacing artifacts, certainly not to the point of being unwatchable. I noticed occasional line twitter that I think is attributable to edge enhancement in the source. For instance when the camera backs out to a wide shot at the end of the coffee shop sequence there was some noticeable shimmer on the blinds. Other shots show some shimmer on hilites and edges, but not to the level of seriously distracting moire patterns and jaggies. The only real problem I noticed which looked like a deinterlacer issue was when the yellow credits at the beginning start to scroll vertically it looks like the deinterlacer looses lock for a second or two.

I should really upgrade this disc to the new edition. This ancient transfer has a lot to be desired, but I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing.

My setup is an SDI modded relative of the Panny RP82 feeding the VP30/ABT102 at 480i and out to a Samsung DLP at 720p. The Deinterlacing Mode is set to Auto.

- Collin

Just wondering here if part of the problem is that the source material may have been converted from NTSC to PAL. Most of the reports on this aspect of the ABT102 seem to have come PAL country. My player is an OPPO 971H with SDI mod. I have not noticed it much on DVDs, but then again, I probably don't watch as many as most do. As I mentioned, I've often seen it on our PAL SD broadcasts, and then usually, although not exclusively, only on pretty crappy source material.

Weird, I was using Pulp Fiction (R1) as a test disk because of that blind in the opening coffee shop sequence (which gave the original vp30 quite a hard time) and I saw no problems at all with it under the ABT102. I'll take another look but on Auto, it seemed to handle it fine iirc.

I also have no problems with the opening SWEp3 titles (which look great) and the Sky News red on white ticker also looks very smooth, far better than my old 100Hz CRT - occassionally after changing channel I'll get a half second of combing as it establishes lock, but in normal use no problem at all.

thanks guys for the feedback.

Could I have a bad ABT102 card? I didn't have the VP30 without the card, so I don't know if its any better then the SIL504 by itself .....

I was outputting Native rate from the Oppo 970 - so 480i from R1 and 576i from R4 .....

I will test again tonight... but the jaggies and moire were aweful.....

that said, I still see line twiching and moire on other stuff.... and I did a full hard reset after upgrading to the 1.09a and having the card installed ...

I only got my plasma a few days ago... so I didn't do much testing with the VP30 before.....

I'll post after I test tonight.....

cheers,

Marcelo

I assume that you're getting the abt102 title on the Information screen? And the extra cadence options under Input? It is recognising that it's there?

also,

did you use the test patterns to ensure you have native rate (the moire and jaggies could be from double scaling!) also make sure judder test pattern is ok.

Make sure the DVD player is not converting NTSC-to-PAL or vice versa. Also, be sure the player is set to output 16:9 otherwise it will scale it the 4:3 and make a mess of it as well.

I assume that you're getting the abt102 title on the Information screen? And the extra cadence options under Input? It is recognising that it's there?

good question, yes the ABT102 is on the opening screen and I can see the multiple deinterlacing options (game 1, game 2, 2:2 odd, 2:2 even, etc....


will check the pulp fiction again now.....

ok - strange.... after powercycling the VP30 (again tonight), I tried both R1 and R4 pulp fiction DVDs....

no errors at all in any of them ...... the VP30 did extremely well with the quality of the source material available....

original release R1 has a better ' more film like' picture and less deinterlacing/moire errors (not many)

R4, Special Aniversary Edition - cleaner picture (not better), but the VP30 trips more on the PAL material and has more deinterlacing and moire issues (still very good and very acceptable) ......

so, the moral of the story probably is... if you are having issues, powercycling may solve them...... at least my powerplug location is easy to access ......

thank you for all responses and tests done by other members of the forum.

Cheers,

Marcelo

and as said above, or at least implied, make sure your source is indeed outputting 480i. I turned on HBO and Deadwood last night - looked pretty nasty. Went to menu to be sure the VIDEO option was on - it wasn't THERE> turned out, when I tried to get a "better" picture by feeding the VP hdmi input, that the stb was only putting out 480p via the DVI/hdmi connection. After show was over, went back to component out, 480i, and picture looked easily twice as good. How embarrassing. :o

also,

did you use the test patterns to ensure you have native rate (the moire and jaggies could be from double scaling!) also make sure judder test pattern is ok.
I'm able to output native rate and the plasma takes it as memory 18 (native rate memory) - changed the settings from PC to Video under the service menu - improved contrast.

judder pattern is fine, and I haven't noticed any judder on PAL material, except a little on scrolling text.... appart from that... very good on the judder thing (NEC XR5 and VP30)

however, under the test patterns, I'm getting 1:1 on the vertical axis, but not on the Horzontal one.....

not sure how to fix that myself...... getting late downunder..... will try again tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,

Marcelo

and as said above, or at least implied, make sure your source is indeed outputting 480i. I turned on HBO and Deadwood last night - looked pretty nasty. Went to menu to be sure the VIDEO option was on - it wasn't THERE> turned out, when I tried to get a "better" picture by feeding the VP hdmi input, that the stb was only putting out 480p via the DVI/hdmi connection. After show was over, went back to component out, 480i, and picture looked easily twice as good. How embarrassing. :o


That kind of thing happens all the time to me...

I'm sure it's that damn AV Gremlin himself...
You know, the one that picks on us old and forgetful folks. :D

and as said above, or at least implied, make sure your source is indeed outputting 480i. I turned on HBO and Deadwood last night - looked pretty nasty. Went to menu to be sure the VIDEO option was on - it wasn't THERE> turned out, when I tried to get a "better" picture by feeding the VP hdmi input, that the stb was only putting out 480p via the DVI/hdmi connection. After show was over, went back to component out, 480i, and picture looked easily twice as good. How embarrassing. :o
Interesting, that's what the SkyHD box does as well - annoyingly it also does it on component. Only option is to use SCART. *shakes fist in impotent rage*

Hi Marcello,

Have you tried Odd mode in de interlacing menu hell of a difference between
EVEN and ODD. Gets rid pf all jagies seen on Even mode when you change to Odd mode.

Auto works OK too.
It has made a hell of a change to picture from set top box.
DVD's are nearlly High Def Quality?.
Monsters inc chapter 5 is amasing try and see if you can detect any jaggies on that scene. :) ;)

Regards,

Brian RichardsI'm able to output native rate and the plasma takes it as memory 18 (native rate memory) - changed the settings from PC to Video under the service menu - improved contrast.

judder pattern is fine, and I haven't noticed any judder on PAL material, except a little on scrolling text.... appart from that... very good on the judder thing (NEC XR5 and VP30)

however, under the test patterns, I'm getting 1:1 on the vertical axis, but not on the Horzontal one.....

not sure how to fix that myself...... getting late downunder..... will try again tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,


Hi Marcello,

Have you tried Odd mode in de interlacing menu hell of a difference between
EVEN and ODD. Gets rid pf all jagies seen on Even mode when you change to Odd mode.

Auto works OK too.
It has made a hell of a change to picture from set top box.
DVD's are nearlly High Def Quality?.
Monsters inc chapter 5 is amasing try and see if you can detect any jaggies on that scene. :) ;)

Regards,

Brian Richards
Marcelo

Hi Marcello,

Have you tried Odd mode in de interlacing menu hell of a difference between
EVEN and ODD. Gets rid pf all jagies seen on Even mode when you change to Odd mode.

Auto works OK too.
It has made a hell of a change to picture from set top box.
DVD's are nearlly High Def Quality?.
Monsters inc chapter 5 is amasing try and see if you can detect any jaggies on that scene. :) ;)

Regards,

Brian Richards

After a reboot, most if not all issues were solved.... DVDs are pretty much HD for me, monsters inc and nemo are like looking through a glass (watched them both last Saturday) .... my only issue was with Pulp Fiction, which a reboot fixed everything.

Will have to play with even/odd field (wife gets upset with I play with settings ALL the time) - I leave in Auto most of the time.....

Thanks Brian,

Regards,

Marcelo

Hi marcelo,

You're giving me the time warp feeling.. I had same problems as you setting up the XR5 and VP30.. so let me save you alot of time :)

however, under the test patterns, I'm getting 1:1 on the vertical axis, but not on the Horzontal one.....

not sure how to fix that myself...... getting late downunder..... will try again tomorrow.


The alternative settings for the VP30 NR with XR5 come from the Lumagen forum :

Hshift = 34
Vsize = 1366
Front = 51
H Sync = 50
Back = 34

Vshift=11
Vsize=768
Front = 4
Vsync = 4
Back = 11

You will see that Horizontal & Vertical pixel test patterns properly.. and the grey pattern will be perfect (but flashes like a strobe due to ???? )

I'm no further to the ideal case of perfect 1:1 on all test patterns without the above strobe effect on the grey pattern test.

Adjust the XR5 image position to center the image.

I can't tell the difference in image quality between the standard DVDO setting for 1365x768 and the Lumagen settings above.. and I'm lazy now its burnt into the firmware :)


Hi marcelo,

You're giving me the time warp feeling.. I had same problems as you setting up the XR5 and VP30.. so let me save you alot of time :)



The alternative settings for the VP30 NR with XR5 come from the Lumagen forum :

Hshift = 34
Vsize = 1366
Front = 51
H Sync = 50
Back = 34

Vshift=11
Vsize=768
Front = 4
Vsync = 4
Back = 11

You will see that Horizontal & Vertical pixel test patterns properly.. and the grey pattern will be perfect (but flashes like a strobe due to ???? )

I'm no further to the ideal case of perfect 1:1 on all test patterns without the above strobe effect on the grey pattern test.

Adjust the XR5 image position to center the image.

I can't tell the difference in image quality between the standard DVDO setting for 1365x768 and the Lumagen settings above.. and I'm lazy now its burnt into the firmware :)


Hi Andy,

thanks heaps for the help ... I'm enjoying the NEC very much .... since my wife went to bed now, I've been tweaking the set..... managed to get 1:1 properly ... I had to do a Hshift on the Panel's remote to -1 ...... just went through all the test patterns now... its all working perfectly!! I'm using the DVDO settings also.

I'm very happy .... the image is so sharp ..... however, on bad PQ, or very grainy film images, I sometimes prefer sending 720p to the NEC so I can use the noise reduction feature.... but it does reduce detail.... a bit of a trade off.....

while I"m breaking in the panel, I'm happy to run 720p most of the time so I can have the pdp saver features.....

I can't believe after all this time, I finally got the plasma and VP30 at home... nice!!!

Cheers,

Marcelo
PS: my grey test pattern is fine.... maybe you have the 'soft focus on' on the NEC??

-I'll have to say I'm a little disappointed with the Auto setting of the ABT102.

I have been thinking that I've been seeing more jaggies or...ehm...jaggies 'light' from time to time than I should with this rather expensive scaler/deinterlacer combo.

This has been "going on" for quite some time, but last night I was watching a documentary about polar explorers, and there were ships with sails and lots of rope, kinda like in the DVD that comes with the ABT102 card. However, there were jaggies in the ropes. So I switched from Auto to Video, and the jaggies disappeared, throughout the documentary. Other programs seem better from it as well. I think that overall, the best result from this source (PAL digital SD cable box connected via RGB SCART --> 3xRCA+Sync) is the Video setting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there are several settings to choose from in the first place, but I was advised to keep the VP30 at Auto because that would fix other potential...things... and would detect the best setting, but I'm going to keep it at Video from now on, because there is a noticeable improvement that way.

For DVD (PAL HDMI 576i), it seems the Auto setting works just fine though.

Hmmm... I'm using 576i over SCART to 4 RCAs and almost never get mis-detected cadence. It happens but less than once a day that I've noticed. Of course, I haven't watched that particular show :)

Hmmm... I'm using 576i over SCART to 4 RCAs and almost never get mis-detected cadence. It happens but less than once a day that I've noticed. Of course, I haven't watched that particular show :)

I see a lot of jaggies too ... even with R1 DVDs.... Alien Ressurection, I was watching it last night and I could see lots of jaggies on Sigourney wavers nose..... when she faces sideways ..... I'm using the Oppo 970 via HDMI @ 480i .....

so, I'm not too stoked either with it... I'm hoping that the VP50 will fix all that......

I'll have to take a look at that this weekend.

to be clear, is when ripley is looking sideways and you can see the profile of her nose...... if its only me, it could my ABT card ......

thanks for checking it out ....

to be clear, is when ripley is looking sideways and you can see the profile of her nose...... if its only me, it could my ABT card ......

Which edition of Alien Resurrection, and do you have a time code?

According to sources, the algs in the ABT102 have been tweaked and placed on a FPGA in the VP50. I do not know the extent of the tweaks. We will just have to wait until the VP50 gets out in the field. The good thing is that ABT will be able to further tweak them as necessary based on artifacts being discovered in the field and unlike for the ABT102 we will be able to down load the tweaks.

Ala Lumagen, a tweak a week can fix problems as they are discovered. While the Lumagen can not fix 480i video deinterlacing (which is contained in the Sil 505), all the the DVDO deinterlacing (for video and film, whether SD or HD) is on the FPGA. :)

they'd better let you apply tweaks without losing your settings ;)

to be clear, is when ripley is looking sideways and you can see the profile of her nose...... if its only me, it could my ABT card ......

thanks for checking it out ....
I'm definitely not getting this. Only had one shot of Ripley in profile in the first 10 minutes, camera shot going round her as she's talking to a doctor.

But lots of other diagonals, bright against dark, the other way and everything in between.

Only slight jaggies I noticed when really looking for them was when she was sitting in a white outfit in front of a white lit column and there seemed to be some for a frame or two in the off-white on white area but I couldn't be sure.

Otherwise stuff like the doctors white uniforms, changing angles going round the shoulders etc, all very smooth indeed.

This is on a 42" PHD8 at about 3-4 feet
R1 DVD
abt102 set to Film Bias or Auto (tried 2:2 and Game Mode 1 as well, just for fun ;) )
Output res of XGA 1024x768 with some position shifting to pixel match
72Hz locked.
DVD player outputting 480i/576i of course, over component.

Which edition of Alien Resurrection, and do you have a time code?

the latest release, Alien Quadrilogy, the special edition - I see lots of it.... I might reboot the VP30 today .....

I'm definitely not getting this. Only had one shot of Ripley in profile in the first 10 minutes, camera shot going round her as she's talking to a doctor.

But lots of other diagonals, bright against dark, the other way and everything in between.

Only slight jaggies I noticed when really looking for them was when she was sitting in a white outfit in front of a white lit column and there seemed to be some for a frame or two in the off-white on white area but I couldn't be sure.

Otherwise stuff like the doctors white uniforms, changing angles going round the shoulders etc, all very smooth indeed.

This is on a 42" PHD8 at about 3-4 feet
R1 DVD
abt102 set to Film Bias or Auto (tried 2:2 and Game Mode 1 as well, just for fun ;) )
Output res of XGA 1024x768 with some position shifting to pixel match
72Hz locked.
DVD player outputting 480i/576i of course, over component.


Thanks Choddo .... yap, it didn't seem right to me getting all those jaggies.... must be my vp30/abt then .... thanks.

Just rebooted it.... left it unplugged for over 1 minute..... haven't seen any jaggies for about 10 minutes now ... watching sky captain and the world of tomorrow.... was seeing jaggies before ... on auto ....

big_marcelo,

Could be resolution or frame rate specific. Make sure you are genlocked and try to see if changing resolution helps with anything.

Go to the info page and make sure it states ABT102 in there. If it doesn't, you may actually be seeing Sil504 artifacts.

big_marcelo,

Could be resolution or frame rate specific. Make sure you are genlocked and try to see if changing resolution helps with anything.

Go to the info page and make sure it states ABT102 in there. If it doesn't, you may actually be seeing Sil504 artifacts.

thanks Ofer, I've check and recheck the info page, definitely shows the ABT102 there... I'm sending 576i HDMI from oppo 970, and 576 component out from my satelitte TV, and normal TV...

funny thing is .... I mostly see the jaggies from my DVD player... hardly any thing on TV or satellite.....

the oppo is set to auto, so it passes the native signal of the DVD 480i/576i ....

the reboot does help though ..... I'll make a habit of rebooting at least once a week ....

Sounds to me like you are playing an R1 DVD (Alien Resurrection) and the Oppo is possibly operating in Auto properly and is SCALING the DVD to output 576i for you. Check info on the VP30 to make sure it sees 480i. Even then, I think the MPEG decoder is to blame here and something is being done to that signal. You've already isolated to some degree when you said other sources look great. If you can find another DVD player you could isolate the Oppo as the source of the jaggies.

Sounds to me like you are playing an R1 DVD (Alien Resurrection) and the Oppo is possibly operating in Auto properly and is SCALING the DVD to output 576i for you. Check info on the VP30 to make sure it sees 480i. Even then, I think the MPEG decoder is to blame here and something is being done to that signal. You've already isolated to some degree when you said other sources look great. If you can find another DVD player you could isolate the Oppo as the source of the jaggies.
Hey buddy,

thanks for that, I'll check it tonight.. I'll make sure again the Oppo is not upscaling it to 576i ....

will post it back here any findings ......

ok, checked it .... Alien Resurrection, special edition, R1 (original)

oppo is sending at 480i 60hz, ycbr 444, via HDMI (confirmed on VP30 infor page)

VP30/ABT102 is sending Native Rate to the NEC XR5, locked @ 59.94

(all above is exactly the same as before)

______________________________________________________

chapter 11, 27 mins... used to see jaggies there... nothing now....

chapter 18, 52:37, specially when the bright white light shine's on ripleys face.... couldn't see any jaggies now.....

______________________________________________

Ok, will stop complaining and whenever I see jaggies, I know it will be time to reboot the VP30 .....

Many thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Regards,

Marcelo

Glad you've got it working better Marcelo :)

Glad you've got it working better Marcelo :)

thanks Choddo.... I was actually watching some TV and DVD stuff last night while finish working.. so not watchign attentively... but I loved the image....... when I change from Native Rate to 720p/1080i .... it makes the image so soft in comparisson....

for people out there who don't have a panel that can do 1:1 ... the VP30 does improve the image a lot... but when you see it at Native Rate..... its razor sharp.... a lot of my SD stuff you can't distinguish from HD ..... is that good ....

almost thinking.... don't need to upgrade to the VP50 on my 50" panel... but then again... why not???? :)

.....for people out there who don't have a panel that can do 1:1 ... the VP30 does improve the image a lot... but when you see it at Native Rate..... its razor sharp.... a lot of my SD stuff you can't distinguish from HD ..... is that good ....
G'day Marcelo,

Yes, I've been preaching that same sermon for yonks now. If you can set your display to NR, then SD will look like HD - at least up to my 40in LCD size and your 50in Plasma by the sounds of it. Not sure how well this declaration will hold up for 100in and up - perhaps others might like to comment. I guess we're talking PJs here, and mostly CRT, so Native Resolution should be the order of the day and SD vs HD comparsions valid, provided of course the source is truly of HD quality - not something you find very often in my experience. BTW, I've sent you a PM some time ago.

G'day Marcelo,

Yes, I've been preaching that same sermon for yonks now. If you can set your display to NR, then SD will look like HD - at least up to my 40in LCD size and your 50in Plasma by the sounds of it. Not sure how well this declaration will hold up for 100in and up - perhaps others might like to comment. I guess we're talking PJs here, and mostly CRT, so Native Resolution should be the order of the day and SD vs HD comparsions valid, provided of course the source is truly of HD quality - not something you find very often in my experience. BTW, I've sent you a PM some time ago.

Hey Phil,

I didn't get your PM - will check again.

when I first had my plasma, and didn't want to run 1:1 in order to keep the screen saver features... 720p looked pretty good and a good improvement.... but now, that I run mostly 1:1... when I switch back to 720p it looks so 'soft' ..... and yes, 'filmlike'!!

Speak to you soon,

Cheers,

Marcelo

Interesting, I noticed that when I run my DVD at 2x/4x speed (during the ending credits of a movie), the picture doesn't scroll very well. Scrolls then jumps, then scrolls then jumps... Is this an ABT102 issue?

Interesting, I noticed that when I run my DVD at 2x/4x speed (during the ending credits of a movie), the picture doesn't scroll very well. Scrolls then jumps, then scrolls then jumps... Is this an ABT102 issue?

I'd guess it's the DVD player. Most do not have fast enough transports / decoders to fast forward or rewind smoothly. By comparison my Tivo at 480i fast forwards and rewinds very smoothly.

- Collin

I'd guess it's the DVD player. Most do not have fast enough transports / decoders to fast forward or rewind smoothly. By comparison my Tivo at 480i fast forwards and rewinds very smoothly.

No DVD player I've ever owned has come close to the smooth FF/Rew controls available on a CAV laserdisc.

No DVD player I've ever owned has come close to the smooth FF/Rew controls available on a CAV laserdisc.
Those were the days... :)

Maybe I should brush the dust from my Aliens collectors box tonight? It is always fun to bring out a big shiny LD when friends is visiting, and see the wondering in their eyes.

Those were the days... :)

Maybe I should brush the dust from my Aliens collectors box tonight? It is always fun to bring out a big shiny LD when friends is visiting, and see the wondering in their eyes.

I paid almost $200 for that box after it went out of print. Sadly, I checked the copy a while back and it had some laser rot. It was a damn ugly video transfer to begin with, too.

I paid almost $200 for that box after it went out of print. Sadly, I checked the copy a while back and it had some laser rot. It was a damn ugly video transfer to begin with, too.

I paid about $70 for the new release (alien, aliens 2, aliens 3 & alien ressurrection).... contains both theatrical and special release versions..... the price has dropped to below $50 already .....

wait until they release the HD DVD..... that would be cool....

I was actually comparing the 12 monkeys special edition R1 - original release I have (1997/98?) and the same movie on sky/foxtel (satellite) last Sunday night... going backwards and forwards between them ..... the original DVD release has so much grain/noise on it... I couldn't run on 1:1... I had to run on 1080i/720p to use my panel's Noise Reduction, to get a similar image from the satellite box ...... and I still prefered the satellite version of it..... where I could run 1:1 and there wasn't too much film grain ....

my setup is really showing how some of my early DVDs are badly mastered and full of grain ......

I paid about $70 for the new release (alien, aliens 2, aliens 3 & alien ressurrection).... contains both theatrical and special release versions..... the price has dropped to below $50 already .....

wait until they release the HD DVD..... that would be cool....

You may be waiting a while Marcelo, Fox is a Blu-ray exclusive studio.

The Alien series will only be available on Blu-ray. That should not be any major drama as Fox has a recent history of producing excellent quality HD (reference iRobot on D-Theater). I fully expect their Blu-ray content to be excellent. Hopefully DTS lossless audio enters into their thinking as well.

Dennis.

Hi All!

Since we are on a little sidetrack here discussing LD/DVD and HD(720/1080i), I have a little question, or more.

I have seen a few HD/.TS movies lately, and are playing those using a Tvix-5000 (resolution set to suit either 720 or 1080i movie).
Done a few comparisons between the HDs and the DVD releases using the VP30 in the loop. VP30 set to 720 to match the PJ.
A few of the movies are great in HD, while others don't show much difference.

Are the 1080i movies encoded professionally, or are they encoded inhouse (realtime?) before broadcast...?

What are your opinions when comparing HD(720/1080i) to a DVD upscaled through the VP30.

An ever smaller sidetrack.
I found out earlier that on the last disc in Aliens box there is a colourbar testpicture (or similar) so you could adjust the input on VP30 against the built-in testpattern(s).
Funny to see the vast difference between LD/CAV testpicture, a DVD DVE testpicture, and the VP30 built-in testpicture. We have come a long way since then. :)

Meenenator: if it's anything like the UK movie stuff, it varies. Sky sometimes broadcast upscaled SD stuff on their HD channels.

They won't have a high res source which they then encode to 1080i on-the-fly, they'll either have SD source or 1080i (or possibly 1080p24sf) which they'll broadcast as 1080i I believe.

An upscaled DVD looks pretty damn good but there's a definite increase (noticeable from as much as 10feet away) in detail/sharpness with real 1080i HDTV on my setup. The TV stuff varies from something from 10Mbps for SkyOneHD to 18Mbps for the BBC HD trial ... afaik. And it's MPEG4/H.264 rather than MPEG2.

I paid about $70 for the new release (alien, aliens 2, aliens 3 & alien ressurrection).... contains both theatrical and special release versions..... the price has dropped to below $50 already .....

You're talking about the DVD. Meenenator and I were discussing the laserdisc. Very different animals.

I found out earlier that on the last disc in Aliens box there is a colourbar testpicture (or similar) so you could adjust the input on VP30 against the built-in testpattern(s).
Funny to see the vast difference between LD/CAV testpicture, a DVD DVE testpicture, and the VP30 built-in testpicture. We have come a long way since then. :)

The VP30 test patterns are meant to be different than those you'll find on any disc, because you're using them for different purposes. The VP30 test patterns should be used to calibrate your display to the VP30's "reference" output levels. From there, you put in a calibration disc and fine-tune the VP30's calibration to each input source.

LD and DVD are expected to have different calibration values. For one thing, LDs are mastered for 7.5 IRE while the DVD should be mastered for 0 IRE. It's not really a "better" or "worse"; it's just different and needs to be adjusted accordingly.

The VP30 test patterns are meant to be different than those you'll find on any disc, because you're using them for different purposes. The VP30 test patterns should be used to calibrate your display to the VP30's "reference" output levels. From there, you put in a calibration disc and fine-tune the VP30's calibration to each input source.

LD and DVD are expected to have different calibration values. For one thing, LDs are mastered for 7.5 IRE while the DVD should be mastered for 0 IRE. It's not really a "better" or "worse"; it's just different and needs to be adjusted accordingly.
Thanks for your feedback!
So.... when I compare the colourbar from a DVD (using DVE) (or the the one mentioned from the Aliens box) and compare that directly to the colourbar from the VP30 (the one which cover half the screen), I'm doing it "wrong"?
If my memory serves me well there is a guide on DVDO.com that do exactly that in some form. Or, am I wrong...?
I have done what I can in order to adjust the output from the Vp30 to my PJ, maybe not perfect... but good enough to be a "reference" to me ;)
So for all the other inputs I adjust the colour to this specific half-colour bar (if I can provide a colourbar on that source).
Again, maybe not what I'm suppose to, but I'm happy.

Thanks for your feedback!
So.... when I compare the colourbar from a DVD (using DVE) (or the the one mentioned from the Aliens box) and compare that directly to the colourbar from the VP30 (the one which cover half the screen), I'm doing it "wrong"?
If my memory serves me well there is a guide on DVDO.com that do exactly that in some form. Or, am I wrong...?

The test patterns generated by the iScan should be used to adjust the settings at your display to a "base level". Once you've done that, you shouldn't touch the display settings again.

The next step is to put in a calibration disc like DVE and adjust the picture settings within the iScan.

Does anyone know if DVDO is working on these problems?

It's pretty silly needing to reboot the unit every time something looks bad! :P

Does anyone know if DVDO is working on these problems?

It's pretty silly needing to reboot the unit every time something looks bad! :P
I think Marcelo may have had a broken config which sorted itself on a reboot - not sure if he's seen any need to reboot it since. I never have to with mine anyway.

I've got the VP50 now ... have to say that SD looks much better then the VP30 ....

also, on mixed modes, ie: graphic overlays, etc... the VP50 has a much cleaner image with less jaggies....

It is possible my ABT102 card was faulty .....

It is possible my ABT102 card was faulty .....
It's always a possibility...unfortunately I see you said in another thread you just returned it, otherwise I'd ask you to check on the info screen if it was installed. (It's unlikely it would actually be detected but then "faulty", though.)

Some have stated that they see a big improvement for SD in the VP50 over the VP30+ABT102, but personally, I don't. I performed many specific deinterlacing tests of cases I had found in my content where there was combing (due to being in film mode when it shouldn't have), bobbing due to not entering film mode when it should have, and just the quality of the motion detection and the bob, and found no identifiable difference.

I'm not disputing that it may have been tweaked or improved slightly, but basically, the SD deinterlacing on the VP50 appears to be pretty much the same as the VP30+ABT102. Of course, that's what I expected when I ordered it. I did so for the HD deinterlacing improvements, and for the possibility of SD deinterlacing improvements in future software versions.

It's always a possibility...unfortunately I see you said in another thread you just returned it, otherwise I'd ask you to check on the info screen if it was installed. (It's unlikely it would actually be detected but then "faulty", though.)

Some have stated that they see a big improvement for SD in the VP50 over the VP30+ABT102, but personally, I don't. I performed many specific deinterlacing tests of cases I had found in my content where there was combing (due to being in film mode when it shouldn't have), bobbing due to not entering film mode when it should have, and just the quality of the motion detection and the bob, and found no identifiable difference.

I'm not disputing that it may have been tweaked or improved slightly, but basically, the SD deinterlacing on the VP50 appears to be pretty much the same as the VP30+ABT102. Of course, that's what I expected when I ordered it. I did so for the HD deinterlacing improvements, and for the possibility of SD deinterlacing improvements in future software versions.

that being the case, I do think my ABT102 card was not working properly as there is a significant difference in SD performance on my set...

my VP30 was one of the first ... same as the ABT102 card ..... I think the VP50 is a more mature product then the VP30 was at launch


I'm very satisfied wit the VP50's performance .....

-When watching the DVE 1:78 animated test patterns, the circle that moves around in the 'Snell & Wilcox' test has 'ringing' while it moves - no matter what deinterlacing algorithm I choose in the ABT102's menu.

Is that right? Is that test supposed to be ring-free under ideal circumstances?
While the circle moves, it looks as if "other circles" are "overlapping" from the sides.

As I've noted before, I have to manually set the ABT102 to either Video or Film Bias in order to get the highest possible quality, because setting it to Auto makes it miss here and there.

Something wrong with my card, or is it like this in general? My ABT102 card was probably among the first batch to be released.

This is with the PAL version of the DVE disc, btw, being deinterlaced by the ABT102 and scaled to 1280x720p by the VP30, then sent to my 1280x720p native Sony rear-projection 3LCD TV.

-When watching the DVE 1:78 animated test patterns, the circle that moves around in the 'Snell & Wilcox' test has 'ringing' while it moves - no matter what deinterlacing algorithm I choose in the ABT102's menu.

Is that right? Is that test supposed to be ring-free under ideal circumstances?
While the circle moves, it looks as if "other circles" are "overlapping" from the sides.

As I've noted before, I have to manually set the ABT102 to either Video or Film Bias in order to get the highest possible quality, because setting it to Auto makes it miss here and there.

Something wrong with my card, or is it like this in general? My ABT102 card was probably among the first batch to be released.

This is with the PAL version of the DVE disc, btw, being deinterlaced by the ABT102 and scaled to 1280x720p by the VP30, then sent to my 1280x720p native Sony rear-projection 3LCD TV.

on the VP30/abt102, I kept on changing from the auto to video, film, etc... since I thought the auto would miss a few things... since I've moved to the VP50.... I always leave on auto and haven't noticed any of misses I used to see previously on the Vp30 ....

OK, thanks, I guess that's one of the things they've fixed in the VP50 software and probably in the later ABT102s as well.
Such a shame the ABT102 card isn't upgradeable.

I'd still like an answer to if the moving circle in the mentioned test on the DVE disc is supposed to be solid (as in not having "ripples" at the sides) as it moves around?

Or is the rippling effect just there no matter what? If the rippling isn't supposed to be there, could it be that the VP30ABT102 does do it correctly, but that my TV somehow doesn't manage to display it correctly?

My new VP30+102D was acting funny:
LCD brightless dimmed after the welcome msg to sheer invisibilaty of the text (it became a shimmering reddish presentation).
Had to lie down flat on my belly to read anything... :rolleyes:

After a lot of searching I found out that the ribbon cable connecting the LCD was partly pulled from its socket.
Carefully and evenly reinserting it was the solution.
My VP30 had suffered a heavy blow during shipping indeed!
Same blow had made the 102 board come loose from it's header...

Now I have two questions:

1. Read the whole thread- one contributor said you have to use sdi in order to benefit from the 102d board. Is this true?

2. How do I find out whether my Marantz DV-9600 is really outputting 480i/576i and whether or not it's converting PAL to NTSC or vice versa?
Got NTSC dvd's as well as PAL.
Does it make a different if I use hdmi or component?

Thanks
Barend (Holland)

1. No

2. The Info button tells you what the vp30 is receiving on the currently selected input.

2a. It also tells you the framerate of both input and output so for PAL disks you should see 576i / 50 input and selected resolution / 50 out and for Region1 disks; 480i / 60 input and native resolution / 60 (or maybe 72 for film if you prefer & the display can take it)

2b. Yes, often you can't get interlaced over HDMI although I'm not sure about that model.

1. Not true. HDMI 480i/576i will work fine.

2. Just look at the info screen - it tells you the input format.

1. Not true. HDMI 480i/576i will work fine.

2. Just look at the info screen - it tells you the input format.

Thanks a lot!
Have set both my Marantz DV-9600 and Linn Unidisk SC to INTERLACED and both show up on INFO as 576i.
So that's OK! :)

OK, I've just watched Mission Impossible III, PAL R2 (Norwegian).

Info screen on VP30 says input is 576i, and output is 1280x720p (1:1 native rate of my TV).

ABT102 card is set to Film Bias.

Several places on this DVD, there is moiré. First I noticed was the first shot from Rome; a brick wall on the left. Then at 45:01, there's a flight of stairs. Then a little later there's moiré on the airvents on the Lamborghini. Then later on there's moiré on the railings of a bridge.

I'm wondering if it's just the DVD, or if the ABT102 doesn't cut it?

I can't see any jaggies though, but I thought I wouldn't see moiré with this combo either.

Try one of the 2-2 modes and see if the moire goes away. If not, then the moire is in the source.

OK - thanks for the tip. :)

I just went through the passages in question again, and tried all the available deinterlacing options, and the moire didn't go away no matter which one I chose.

So I guess it's in the source then.

Isn't that a little... unprofessional though? Or is it hard to avoid sometimes?

OK, I've just watched Mission Impossible III, PAL R2 (Norwegian).

Info screen on VP30 says input is 576i, and output is 1280x720p (1:1 native rate of my TV).

ABT102 card is set to Film Bias.

Several places on this DVD, there is moiré. First I noticed was the first shot from Rome; a brick wall on the left. Then at 45:01, there's a flight of stairs. Then a little later there's moiré on the airvents on the Lamborghini. Then later on there's moiré on the railings of a bridge.

There seems to be a strange encoding problem with all video copies of MI3. The NTSC DVD has the same issue. The HD DVD and Blu-ray do as well, though to a much lesser extent (the jitter is really only noticeable on the Vatican staircase).

Hello all

I just finished watching MI3 on my DLP front projection system and this has to be the worst DVD I have ever seen. I have seen TV on DVD that looks better than this. There is moire throughout the movie and I have also noticed jitter and even some jaggies. I am actually considering returning it or giving it away.

I have played with the settings on the VP30 (ABT102) and no improvement. I find it hard to believe that they would let something like this make it to DVD.
I found it difficult to watch this movie without looking for all the flaws in the transfer and I don't consider myself to be a videophile.

If you are thinking of buying it.....DON'T......just rent it.

There, now that I got that off of my chest I feel a whole lot better.

Hi all,

I'm curious if anyone has compared the performance of the VP30/ABT102 to the Silicon Optix ReonVX.

I'm considering an upgrade to Onkyo's TX-SR905 receiver when it's released later this year, if the ReonVX offers similar performance to my VP30/ABT102 (assuming the Reon implemented correctly), I could eliminate the DVDO solution to simplify my setup.

The ReonVX can only handle 2:2 and 3:2 cadence detection.
The ABT102 can handle any cadence.

Thanks for chiming in Josh, that's definitely helpful.

Hi all,

I'm curious if anyone has compared the performance of the VP30/ABT102 to the Silicon Optix ReonVX.

I'm considering an upgrade to Onkyo's TX-SR905 receiver when it's released later this year, if the ReonVX offers similar performance to my VP30/ABT102 (assuming the Reon implemented correctly), I could eliminate the DVDO solution to simplify my setup.

Maybe a bit off topic, but I have evaluated the Onkyo TX-SR875 (which has the same ReonVX software as the NR905) to the Denon 3930 which carry the Silicon Optix Realta.

The Denon has slightly fewer scaling artifacts than the Onkyo. It also keep focus during object moving and panníng scenes little better than the Onkyo. So if ABT102 is on par or better than the Silicon Optix Realta, don't expect the ReonVX based Onkyo to perform alike.

I'm pretty sure the SO products are significantly better than the 102.

I've seen the output of an upscaled DVD being played on the Toshiba HD-AX2 (Reon VX) and it looks much better than what I have coming out of my VP30/102 combo.

My VP30 with ABT102 has firmware 1.14, and when it receives an interlaced source, I can choose only between Auto, Film bias and video modes in the deinterlacing menu, whereas 2:2 Even, 2:2 Odd, Game Mode 1 and 2 are greyed.
Does it mean that the card is defective, or not properly installed? Or is this a firmware issue?

My VP30 with ABT102 has firmware 1.14, and when it receives an interlaced source, I can choose only between Auto, Film bias and video modes in the deinterlacing menu, whereas 2:2 Even, 2:2 Odd, Game Mode 1 and 2 are greyed.
Does it mean that the card is defective, or not properly installed? Or is this a firmware issue?

It sounds like the card is not properly seated on the header on the main video board.