How do you choose the best hdmi cable for the $? [Text View]

witmaster

05-10-07, 06:00 PM

I'm rather new to the world of HD. About all I know about HDMI cables is:

I need one to connect my HD cable box to my HDTV
sales people in the stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, specialty, ...) say spend more money on Monster "the god of HDMI cables"
I probably only need at most a 6' cable
this thread, and Consumer Reports (if it matters) suggest ignoring the expensive cables and going for "reasonable prices"

Since I have no experience, is it true that in short runs (like 6') there really is no difference in cables? I spent a fortune to have HD and I'd hate to get lesser quality because I was unwilling to spend another $50-100 for "the best quality" cable. On the other hand, I don't like being duped into spending money unnecessarily.

Any advice appreciated.If I've learned anything it is this...

Digital is just that. DIGITAL. It's either on or it's not.

Don't waste your money on the high end bullsh*t talk. My HDMI signal from the cables I purchased on monoprice are perfect and the quality is superb.

calv1n

05-10-07, 06:25 PM

If I've only learned one thing from AVS it has to be that monoprice is hard to beat. I can't say enough good things about them they really are almost* to good to be true for the $ and the quality you get. It pains me to buy a cable anywhere else.

Kid Red

05-10-07, 08:57 PM

monoprice FTW

Can't believe the poster didn't include this option in their poll!?!?!

moxie1617

05-10-07, 09:03 PM

Can't believe the poster didn't include this option in their poll!?!?!

New member.

rndthm

05-11-07, 08:56 PM

Monoprice all the way...... I got one from them that is 50 feet long and it has worked perfect with no problems at all for over a year...

aviman33

05-13-07, 03:31 PM

Definitely Monoprice.

Jon

Alex solomon

06-10-07, 02:47 AM

All my digital cables are from monoprice. Highly recommended. I have used them for short run only though. I am about to order a 50' 24 AWG HDMI cable to use with Monoprice new 4 x 1 switcher.

hawaiidave

06-26-07, 01:23 AM

So I have a question - going to try hdmi again. I got it when I first got my flat-screen and was getting sparkles - been running component ever since...but I hear they have fixed most of the hdmi issues. What I do not remember at this point is whether or not using hdmi is going to over-ride my digital audio? I run my cd/dvd through a dac; if hdmi is going to take over the sound as well, I will lose the benefit of dac - is this correct? Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

littlesaint

06-26-07, 10:57 AM

The Apple Store now sells very well made 2m cables for $20 and most with free shipping. They have HDMI, HDMI/DVI, component, and optical. If you have a local store they carry them there as well.

joemama127

06-26-07, 11:57 AM

www.monoprice.comsame

moxie1617

06-26-07, 01:15 PM

ChrisW6ATV

06-27-07, 07:45 PM

This one is easy... Monoprice (but they are not on the list, so I picked "other).

Alex solomon

06-27-07, 08:16 PM

Received 50 feet 24 AWG HDMI cable form Monoprice. No problem at all with my Sharp Z3000 and Tosh HD-A1 connected through Monoprice's new 4 x 1 HDMI switcher.

gregmp

06-28-07, 03:07 PM

The Monster could blow me and I still wouldn't pay a $100 for an HDMI cable.

MONOPRICE 28AWG works perfect for short runs (<20')

ToddUGA

06-29-07, 09:01 AM

Best HDMI cable for the money? I'd try that online place. What's it called? Mono something... I'm drawing a blank...

:)

RafaelSmith

06-29-07, 09:53 AM

The Monster could blow me and I still wouldn't pay a $100 for an HDMI cable.

MONOPRICE 28AWG works perfect for short runs (<20')

Monster sucks...they dont blow..=P

Seriously I recently re-wired just about my whole system...interconnects, speakers, etc....all from Monoprice....for less than what a single Monster HDMI cable would cost.

Monster = Bose. Gotta give them credit for being smart/shrewd business people.

joarda2

07-05-07, 08:44 AM

Balforth

07-06-07, 10:10 AM

I ordered an HDMI cable from partsexpress last saturday, then another HDMI cable from monoprice on tuesday. Both cables showed up yesterday... couldn't believe how fast monoprice got me the cable.

The fancy "dayton" cable from partsexpress felt flimsy and cheap. The generic, no-name brand cable from monoprice, which was cheaper, had a huge diameter and felt like it was encased in goodyear rubber. The entire build quality seemed superb. They win on every level--I will never buy another cable anywhere but from monoprice.

TheRedlines

07-06-07, 11:22 AM

Monoprice HDMI Cable for $2.84? Front page today. Sweet!!

Alex solomon

07-06-07, 11:23 AM

All of my cables are form Mono. However I need a 25 ft audio cable that is very flexible. Any suggestion that is of good quality that sells close to @ Mono's prices?

Mach1Man

07-06-07, 01:32 PM

Nice to see Monoprice is way ahead in this pool. When did they change their name to "other"??

mjones73

07-06-07, 01:39 PM

All of my cables are form Mono. However I need a 25 ft audio cable that is very flexible. Any suggestion that is of good quality that sells close to @ Mono's prices?

What kind of audio cable do you need.

cawgijoe

07-06-07, 01:44 PM

Monoprice.

Alex solomon

07-06-07, 01:47 PM

What kind of audio cable do you need.
Audio interconnect. To connect iaudio X5 MP3 player to home stereo.

mjones73

07-06-07, 03:25 PM

Just get one from monoprice, they carry those also.

ralphkw

07-06-07, 03:37 PM

I've heard horror stories about long runs of HDMI cable not working at all. Has anyone used the Monoprice HDMI and or component cables in lengths of 25-35 feet? If so, which model did you get from Monoprice? I'm leaning towards the 22 AWG for the HDMI because current loss is the biggest enemy of long cable runs for digital signals to the best of my knowledge.
Jeff
I got my 50 ft cable from Monoprice. Although I have only tested it at 1080i, it seems to work perfectly. Here is the cable I purchased.

HDMI Silver-Plated Copper CL2 Rated (For In-Wall Installation) Cable (22AWG) - 50ft (Gold Plated)

The funny thing is, it was the cheapest silver plated copper I could find, and it works great.
Ralph

Alex solomon

07-07-07, 11:32 AM

Just get one from monoprice, they carry those also.
I didn't see one. Do you have the model number?

Uncle_Joe

07-21-07, 10:46 PM

Pretty much the most useless poll I've seen on this site -- where over three-quarters of the people recommend either monoprice or bluejeans, you'd think they'd be an option on the poll (instead of just being grouped into other).

fyi, I'm just learning about cables -- and after being steered in many directions by various internet sites, I find myself going back to monoprice. I was a little wary, because they're a sponser (right?) and that's always cause for pause. But it gets too many raves from people who don't think twice about slamming the less fortunate. :) The bluejeans site also has some good deals -- but it's primarily Belden cable with nice connectors (hence more pricey, for the most part). They do beat out monoprice in the "pretty good explanations/details department". . . . . I like the extra info. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

A visit to the other side of the lookingglass, aka the monster cable website, leaves more questions than answers. You're lucky if they give you the gauge -- I mean, can anyone explain why there are six or seven different monster hdmi grades . . . besides the price and the color of the stripe on the end, what's the difference between the monster 300 and 400? . . . . and I guess I need to buy the M-Series M1000 if I have 1080p, since the M850 and M860 only go to 720p/1080i. And if I have a flat screen I probably want the flatscreen cable with the mini-connector . . or wait, I think I have THX, and their aren't any hdmi cables under the THX section, so I probably want component cables . . . . . Now, I'm sure Monster makes fine cables -- but any company that goes to such lengths to make what should be a relatively simple buying decision that complicated . . . . . needless to say, they don't deserve my business.

I echo the earlier sentiment -- without the input from the avsforum-heads, I would be lost. I thank you all (well, most of you).

moxie1617

07-24-07, 04:39 PM

Yeah but, Monoprice does help sponsor this forum. I appreciate that and give them my business.

SteveG_NH

07-25-07, 03:40 PM

I just read this though, and it certainly taught me something, as I thought the same. But the question wasn't about where to buy them, but what brand. Or is it that monoprice is their own brand as well? If so, then I learned something else.

prospect60

07-25-07, 08:16 PM

AFAIK, monoprice basically sells their own generic cable - at least mine don't have any other markings to indicate otherwise.

M3 Pete

07-30-07, 11:45 AM

it's been a while since I have been to the forum, and things have changed. It used to be bluejeanscable.com, partsexpress.com, ramelectronics.net, and some other cable companies, now it's all monoprice all the time. (I never heard of monoprice before today). But I'll give them a try since I need my 15 foot HDMI cable before Saturday's install of my new HD DVR (D* HR20), and they are only about 50 miles away, so I should get the cable in the next day or two. I'll have to pay sales tax, but since the cable is so cheap the tax is a minor deal.

FWIW, I've used bluejeanscable.com in the past for some digital coax cable and I can say the quality was top notch and the prices were reasonable.

Uncle_Joe

08-03-07, 02:45 AM

I'm looking for a 6' hdmi to hdmi cable . . . and a bunch of other cables, but this is my focus now . . . . after all my research, I narrowed down my cable vendors to four (Monoprice, Bluejeans, Cables for Less, My Cable Mart) -- all have good consumer feedback, with no www.bbb.org or www.resellerratings.com negatives.

I see the 28 awg cable available from $5-8 and "premium" 24 awg cables for $15-40. Monoprice has certified theirs for hdmi 1.2a, My Cable Mart for 1.3 -- Bluejeans doesn't sell a 28 awg cable. Only My Cable Mart has ferrite cores (I understand that's a plus) for both of their cables -- Monoprice has it only for the 28 awg. Bluejeans, Cables for Less don't mention ferrite cores or hdmi 1.2/1.3 certification. Question. if 1.3 certified cables are available for nearly the same price, it would make sense to go that way, right? (monoprice says don't worry about it). Ditto on ferrite cores, right? (meaning it's a benefit that's worth a "very small" premium)

I realize that for this short a distance, I should probably just go with the cheapest decently made 28 awg cable -- but I may end up going longer and for now I'm just trying to learn. (a month ago I would have been buying Monster).

Alex solomon

08-03-07, 09:23 AM

Uncle Joe, I have all monoprice cable including analog and digital audio, speaker cable and banana plugs and HDMI switcher. I also have 28 AWG 3 ft and 24 AWG 50' HDMI cable form mono. They all work perfectly. All of their products are of a very good quality. Save your money and go with Mono.

mp3019

08-04-07, 01:47 AM

I'm new so please bare with me. Obviously, after reading this thread monoprice.com is the way to go. That being said. I purchased a Samsung DLP yesterday and need to know which hdmi cables to get, which gauge because I will be hooking hdmi through a onkyo receiver for surround sound and was told there was a problem with cheaper wires when running through an audio receiver. I guess I will need three cables <6ft. One for the dvd player and one for the dish satellite rec and the other from the receiver. Is this an optimal way to hook surround sound up? Is there a difference in sound and picture? Your comments are appreciated.

CT_Wiebe

08-04-07, 04:53 AM

I voted "Other" = monoprice. Ever since I tried some of their cables, I won't shop anywhere else, unless I have to ("need one today").

mp3019 -- Using 3 HDMI cables is the easiest way to go. You will also get the best sound that way, because your receiver will pull the audio off the HDMI and do the correct decoding. The only other choice is to use the digital audio connections (coax or optical) - but that may not give you the best audio decoding.

As for gauge, it depends on the length of cable. For 6' lengths, you can go with 26AWG or 28AWG. The difference is that the heavier gauge has less capacitance and impedance per foot of length (= greater bandwidth). For 6' or less, it really doesn't make that much difference. HDMI cables will either work or they won't.

I personally would go with 6' 26AWG (you don't want to get them too short, since you can't make sharp bends and you don't want to put any strain on the connectors on your equipment (it can break the internal solder joints to the circuit boards). If you have 3' between the boxes, go with 6' cables. If you have 5' between boxes, go with 8' or 10' cables (always allow an extra foot, minimum, on each end for strain relief).

Uncle_Joe

08-04-07, 04:45 PM

The real choice is between the 28 awg and the 24 awg -- 26 awg may be out there, but for those of us regular folk buying ready made cables, not really.

From what I've read (and not contradicted) -- for hdmi:
The 28 awg is better, but it comes with some negatives -- it's heavier and not as flexible, so if the connections aren't snug (or if you have a tight space or if you move the cable alot) that extra weight may loosen the connection. So if you want the BEST cable and don't have tight-fit problems, 28 awg is MAYBE worth spending the few extra dollars. It also gives you peace of mind that you made an entirely performance based choice (although that may be imaginary).

But if you go the cheaper 24 awg route, you'll very likely not going to notice ANY performance difference -- unless you have Spider Man type senses -- and it's probably the way to go. And if you obsess (like me) about ferrite cores and hdmi 1.3 certification for a 6' connection issue, you're probably overthinking.

soConfused!

10-12-07, 11:51 AM

I am the new proud owner of a Sharp Aquas 37" 1080p LCD screen and an LG sound system. But the sound is not the problem.
Im working on a setup that will use my High end computer as the primary source of video to the TV, using Windows XP media center edition.

Firstly, I was a sucker, and purchased the Monster 400 cable at futureshop for $100 bucks. DVI - HDMI.
I currently have a Radeon X800 Pro video card with DVI out.
I think Im going to buy the Saphire Radeon HD 2600 XT with dual dvi out (It says it has hdmi out, but after reading deeper, it really just contains a converter)

Anyways, using this setup, I can run 720p no problem , but when I try to run 1080p (1920x1080x60) which the video card is supposed to be able to handle, and the tv is supposed to be able to handle, It goes all distorted and green with a lot of stripes through it.
After much screwing around, I decided (by believing the monster website) that I needed the next cable. Monster 800. Which is only hdmi-hdmi. So I still have a Monster 400 converter temporarily with a monster 800 ($200!) hdmi cable, but it is still giving the same result....

It is frustrating to have paid extra for a 1080p tv and only be able to run it at 720p! Does anyone have any suggestions ??? Is it the cable? And do I need the 22AWG in order to run at such a high rate? It will only be 6ft. I know the distance isnt long, but Im more concerned about the quality.
Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!

Sidenote: Thanks guys, I am totally ordering cables from monoprice and returning the optical and hdmi cables I bought from futureshop. What a rip off!

tropez29

11-23-07, 11:14 AM

Hello, I recently purchased a new HDTV and a 6 dollar hdmi cable from newegg. Nobody here seems to mention newegg for good hdmi cables. Anyway, the reviews for that cable were good, so i got it. The picture on my tv is not the greatest, a lot of video artifacts, microblocking, pixelation, etc. I'm wondering if a new hdmi cable from monoprice would be better, especially if its hdmi 1.3a. I'd be willing to try it out since its so cheap if any of you think it would make a difference.

mjones73

11-23-07, 11:47 AM

A bad HDMI cable would lead to "sparklies" which are dropped data, your problems sound more like a source issue. What are you using for HD? Have you tried hooking it up via component to see if the problem clears up?

tropez29

11-23-07, 01:54 PM

I am hooked up to a comcast HD DVR via HDMI. I have tried component and the picture is pretty much the exact same.

Splotto

11-23-07, 03:35 PM

Monoprice.

Alex solomon

11-23-07, 04:27 PM

monoprice.com. Very well made cables at cheap prices. All my cables are from monoprice and all work perfectly including a 50' HDMI cable.

TCAS

11-23-07, 04:49 PM

Many forum members have been very happy with HDMI cables from monoprice.com, don't waste your money on a Monster cable...

Amen, Among the best place to order Good Quality HDMI Cables with the best price possible.

mjones73

11-23-07, 04:50 PM

I am hooked up to a comcast HD DVR via HDMI. I have tried component and the picture is pretty much the exact same.

Sounds like your STB and/or feed from Comcast is the problem then. Check the Recorders forum for info on DVR's, you should be able to verify the signal level coming into it and make sure it's high enough.

svslider

11-24-07, 12:25 AM

Blue Jeans cable is your best bet for top quality at a great price. Thay are authorized belkin cable builders I believe.

drbonbi

11-24-07, 08:20 AM

porsche1207

11-25-07, 04:42 AM

I'm looking at a new 63" 1080p plamsa from Samsung and browsing thru the manual they state that if you don't use 1.3 hdmi cable you may have problems...paraphrasing here. Are all monocables 1.3 and backwards certified? Is there such a thing or more hype. I was on mycablemart site and in the FAQ they do talk about this and say their cables are all 1.3 and back certified and they are pretty cheap as well.

The external devices that support lower versioned HDMI mode may not implement sound output for the TV with the latest HDMI
version (HDMI 1.3).
In this case, connect to HDMI3/DVI IN and DVI IN [R-AUDIO-L] on the side panel of the TV.
➢ Part of lower versioned HDMI cables may cause annoying flickers or no screen display.
In this case use the cable that supports the latest HDMI version (HDMI 1.3).

goater24

11-25-07, 05:28 AM

Monoprice. And I have a pretty good hunch that if the "other" category was separated into "Monoprice" and "other", Monoprice would be the most popular vote out of all of them (Monster included). Actually, it would beat out all of them combined :)

TCAS

11-26-07, 12:18 AM

I answered your question here - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=674608

Many forum members have been very happy with HDMI cables from monoprice.com, don't waste your money on a Monster cable...

Amen and another vote for "Monoprice".

Jim Cate

11-26-07, 12:45 PM

I need a 25-foot HDMI 1.3 cable for connecting an AVR with a front projection TV. The cable would lay on top of and extend along a series of bookcases to the projector, which also sits on one of the bookcases.

The cables Monoprice recommends for this length are described as being for "in-wall" installation. - But my installation wouldn't be "in-wall". - Would I have a problem with them, and what are the characteristics of "in-wall" cables? Apparently they would be rather thick (22-24AG?), and not as flexible as lighter cables. - Are they flexible enough to be curved around the projector and connected to an HDMI input jack located on the rear of the projector (about 6 inches from the rear wall)?

Thanks,
Jim Cate

Ringfinger

11-26-07, 01:36 PM

I just bought all my cabling from Monoprice thanks to the helpful posters here. Now, I need to get a TV and receiver. Isn't that the cart before the ox?

Crofty

11-27-07, 02:16 PM

I would have bought from monoprice, but they were out of stock on everything I wanted. They had white versions of the cables I wanted, but I like black better. I settled for bluejeans. It's made in America, so I don't mind spending a little extra money. I hooked my HDTV DVR from TimeWarner in Winston Salem NC to my Sharp LC-46D64U and only had some of the HD channels. When I was on hold with TimeWarner I lost every channel. I removed the HDMI cable and tried different inputs. The pic came back, but it had red lines through it. I switched to component cables and it works fine. It was the cheap cable from TimeWarner and the two of the pins on the end of both connectors look pushed in. I'm hoping it's the cable.

strader69

11-27-07, 09:37 PM

I just bought the new sony 60 inch bravia dlp. Like an idiot i bought the monster cables x2 and set myself back 200 bucks. After reading these forums i have since returned the cables and bought 2 hdmi cables from monoprice for 20 bucks including shipping. Thanks all.

Now my question is this....... My sony tv is 120 hz / fps refresh rate. I noticed the monster cables were rated at 60 hz. Do i need the cables rated for 120 hz to get the most from my tv? Any help would be great!

Mike

fish bonz

11-27-07, 09:45 PM

another vote for monoprice...

When I went to order, they had a special on 6 ft cables for $2.94 ea. I ordered 4 just so I wouldn't spend more on shipping. Very nice cables.

jfandem

12-06-07, 01:27 PM

I am going to need 3 HDMI cables, one from the Denon receiver to TV (should be the best quality one?) One from the ps3 to the receiver, and one from the Satellite receiver to the denon receiver. Should I spend a bit more and get the bluejeans cable for the receiver to TV one, since itll be longer also? And then get short monoprice ones for the other components? I should get a hdmi1.3 cable right? Thanks.

Ringfinger

12-06-07, 01:54 PM

You don't need to spend more. Go to monoprice, get a 24 or 26 AWG cable in the length you need and you will be fine. 1.3 cable? If you want, that is a lot of bandwidth that you probably wont use for a long time.

jfandem

12-06-07, 05:02 PM

Ok what about item 3871, for the ps3 to receiver and sat box to receiver?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024007&p_id=3871&seq=1&format=2

It is 28awg, and ferrite cores? Its 3 feet, thats all I should need. I bought a thicker, longer one for receiver to tv from bluejeans. Should i get this or the in wall installation one? its like 24awg, not sure if that will be to thick/not flexible enough.

jtbell

12-06-07, 11:56 PM

Like probably most of the 71% who chose "other" so far, I use Monoprice.com cables and have been happy with them.

Ringfinger

12-07-07, 09:58 AM

28 AWG should be fine at 3 feet.

Are you installing in wall and if so how long?

Mach1Man

12-07-07, 12:33 PM

I'm in the Monoprice / other group also. perhaps the OP should start over with only 2 choices; Monoprice and All Others. Bet Monoprice would come out on top.

giaps

12-07-07, 02:47 PM

What is the best AWG for 6 foot length?

24, 26 or 28?

Ringfinger

12-07-07, 02:49 PM

24 is best, but 26 or 28 if rated 1.3b class 2 should work the same.

giaps

12-07-07, 03:19 PM

24 is best, but 26 or 28 if rated 1.3b class 2 should work the same.

K, thanks.

mikfort51

12-07-07, 04:09 PM

giaps

12-07-07, 04:14 PM

24 is best, but 26 or 28 if rated 1.3b class 2 should work the same.
Here's what I found:
HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified CL2 Rated (In-Wall Installation) Cable (24AWG) w/ Net Jacket - 6ft (Gold Plated)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2

$15 is kinda pricey for 6 feet from monoprice isn't it?

thebishman

12-07-07, 06:12 PM

3 words: Blue Jeans Cable

joed32

12-08-07, 09:56 AM

Here's what I found:
HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified CL2 Rated (In-Wall Installation) Cable (24AWG) w/ Net Jacket - 6ft (Gold Plated)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2

$15 is kinda pricey for 6 feet from monoprice isn't it?

In-wall cable has to be built differently to prevent a fire hazard. I would never buy it.

giaps

12-09-07, 11:12 PM

In-wall cable has to be built differently to prevent a fire hazard. I would never buy it.
Does that affect performance? All the 24 AWGs are in-wall cables.

comptr

12-09-07, 11:25 PM

Look I have 3 different brand name HDMI cables one from monster, one from audioquest, one from some x brand , and two monoprice cables and they are all the same don't waste money on expensive cables a $5.00 cable will work just as fine as a $100.00 cable.

giaps

12-10-07, 03:34 PM

Does in-wall connection affect the performance of the cable? Also, I thought 24AWG was best for a 6 foot connection, but only the in-walls are 24 AWG. Please help because I need to purchase an HDMI today from mono while they are in stock.

Bill Broderick

12-10-07, 05:07 PM

24AWG is best, only because it contains thicker wire. However, for a 6 foot run, any thickness should be fine. There is nothing wrong with cables rated for in wall. In order to be in wall rated, they need to have a slow burning outer jacket. They are approved by Underwriters Laboratores (UL).

Having an in wall rating doesn't affect the performance of the cable. It just makes them a little more expensive.

Bill Broderick

12-10-07, 05:13 PM

Now my question is this....... My sony tv is 120 hz / fps refresh rate. I noticed the monster cables were rated at 60 hz. Do i need the cables rated for 120 hz to get the most from my tv? Any help would be great!

The 120 Hz refresh rate is internal to your TV. The signal being passed is still 60Hz. The TV just doubles the refresh rate of the signal. You don't need special cables for a TV that has a 120 hz refresh rate.

joevberg

12-14-07, 02:07 AM

Ok, explain this one. I too hate the ridiculous prices of monster cables. I resent the fact that the sales people who just made a pretty dime off me buying expensive equipment try to make me feel like I won't get my moneys worth unless I spend a lot more money on the best cables. I have read about analog vs digital and that as long as the signal is there thats all that matters. So I have been happy using cheap cables, even the one that came in the box of my directv hr-20. Until, the other day I picked up a blu-ray open box buy, they wouldn't honor my 12% coupon because the player wasnt at full price...so I used the coupon on a hdmi monster cable after arguing with the rep that their full of crap, she said just bring it back if you dont like it and by the way you get a free movie with it also.. Fair enuff. So I was too tired to re-run all the cables that night so instead of hooking up the blu-ray, I just replaced the hdmi cable on the hr-20 with the monster, both only 4'. Next day my wife asked me what I did to the tv (she understands nothing about what is hooked up to the tv) I asked why, whats wrong? She said "nothing, it just looks better, like the stuff in the stores". I said it already did, she said "no, it never looked this crisp and clear and the colors are brighter". I finally took the time to watch some tv, and I agree with her, I even tried another cheap hdmi just in case it was a bad original one. That is the best test possible, my own eyes. Now I am not saying the price is worth the better picture, because it is still great with any hdmi or component cables. The only true test would be having the exact same setup side by side running the same content. Its like wine, the expensive bottle is not necessarily better then a cheaper bottle but you've gotta try both and if you like the cheaper one or can't tell the difference, or just want the buzz, then definitely save the money. Sorry such a long post, but had to post my honest findings.

joevberg

12-14-07, 02:31 AM

Ok, I'm back. I may have found my own answer. And if I am right then I should delete my original post, but I'll leave it in case my new theory is wrong.

Could it be that the cheaper cables were older and non v1.3a? And thh new monster ultra 600 is v1.3a which = more bandwidth? If so, then a new monoprice v1.3a would be just as good and I can take this monster back and whip the biach with it.

Thanks for your time folks.

coyoteaz

12-14-07, 09:40 PM

There is no change to the hardware between various HDMI spec levels, only higher testing to meet certification. I would highly suggest reading the HDMI Information (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cable-information.htm?hdmidept) on Blue Jeans Cable's website. Remember to take what they have with a grain of salt since they are trying to sell something, but the basic information is still quite useful in understanding all the nonsense surrounding HDMI.

marshtj

12-18-07, 09:41 AM

I just recieved my monoprice cable and couldn't be happier. Excellent build quality and weight.

weiler63

12-19-07, 07:03 PM

I needed to replace some component cables, checked out Monoprice (cheapest was $10 shipped) The came across HDMIKing.com, $7.99 shipped for a 2 meter 1.3 cable. Already got my confirmation email, will repost once the cable arrives.

weiler63

12-19-07, 07:05 PM

BTW- does anyone know how many wires are in an HDMI cable, longshot, I've got 2 50' CAT5e runs that I want to turn into an HDMI for my projector, is it possible? I believe the CATs have 8 each so anything les than 16 for the HDMI should work, no?

mp3car

01-02-08, 12:57 PM

Like HDMI/DVI cable, Cat5 does contain twisted pairs and has 100 ohm cable impedance, the biggest difference is HDMI/DVI cabling contains twisted-shielded pairs, a shield over each pair, and often an overall shield over all wires. When I say pair, I mean a differential pair. Unlike analog composite or component signals, DVI signals (and Ethernet, and many digital signals) are transmitted differentially (instead of one signal line "swinging" referenced to a "zero" or ground, in a differential signal, the two wires of a pair swing opposite of each other). Composite and Component Analog video signals would be much less prone to noise if they were also transmitted differentially.

Cat5 cable is also only 4 pairs, which wont give you enough lines for the 8 required TMDS lines and the required DDC signals for HDCP. But, if you look at page 10 and 11 of:

http://hdmi.org/pdf/whitepaper/SilicaonImageHDMIWhitePaperv73(2).pdf

you will see only 17 wires are listed, and I don't believe the CEC signal nor Hot plug signals are required, so you may be able to use the 16 wires of your two cat 5 lines... i'm not sure how I'd suggest to wire it though, I mean, you would obviously put the +/- of each of the TMDS channels on its own pair, but then if you wanted to run the shield wires too, I guess just pick a couple of wires of of the other cat 5 cable to make as "shield" wires, which obviously wont really do much shielding. These probably wouldn't even have to be connected, if you are even going to run the shields, you could also try just tie all the shields together. If you're going to try it, I would recommend to use one cat 5 cable for all 8 TMDS wires, and the other cat 5 cable for the other signals (once again, I don't know that it would do much if did connect and ran the shields through the twisted pair, especially if they're on the OTHER cat cable they won't do anything along the lines of shielding the TMDS).

But, if you're going to try it, my reason for suggesting to use one cat 5 cable for all TMDS lines because the Data lines are referenced to the clock line. If there is skew/difference between when the data on each of the data pairs is seen by the receiver with reference to each other or with reference to the clock, you can render the signal useless. This is why I say to run all through the same cat 5 cable to help ensure all lines are the same length. If the clock line is too long compared to you're data lines, for example, your receiving device would receive pixel data before it receives the clock tick that corresponds to that data. In other words, the difference in cable length between the signals becomes a factor because the data rate is so fast, a longer wire means further to travel, even though the signals are near the speed of light.

In addition to the link above, check out these links too... You may want to look into a Balun ($$$$) if you want to do it "the correct" way over cat 5. But to be honest, I'd grab a $5 HDMI cable and cut it in the middle and give it a try over your two cat 5 cables... can't hurt! (unless you wire it wrong, but even then I'd be very surprised if anything was permanently damaged). But, as I said... rin all TMDS over one cable and try to make sure the lines are fairly close to the same length.

Also, as a note... Just the other day I ran component video and audio over a cat 5 cable with no baluns or isolation transformers. It's TOTALLY the wrong type of cable, I should of course be using 75 ohm coax, not unshielded 100 ohm twisted pair, but... I was extremely surprised to see only a very slight rolling bar from bottom to top, most likely caused from currents on the ground wires for each of the signals, 60hz induced noise, etc. An isolation transformer would probably help, of course a balun would work too. The TV I ran it to is in the bdr and is HD, and I wanted to run the output of the cable box/DVR to it. On an HD channel through the ~30' of component over twisted pair, it's much better than regular analog cable and near the quality of HD OTA viewed directly on that TV!!! It is well worth living with the very very slight bars, which sometimes aren't even perceptible, to avoid buying a long HDMI cable (a 50' can be found for ~$40-60 online) and running it through walls/ceiling/floor. I already had the unused cat 5 cable run through the walls. Now if I could just find a cheap ~$50 IR-RF-IR device... I got the one at best buy, it barely works! But, at the same time, it's certainly not worth buying a harmony 890 or the likes, and the associated RF-to-IR unit, especially when I've already got a harmony 720! Maybe I'll try one from CC or elsewhere...

More HDMI info...
http://www.circuitassembly.com.cn/pdf/100252b.pdf

Balun Info
http://www.svideo.com/videobalun1.html

I have not posted 3 times, so I'm sorry the "links" are not actual links since a user must post at least 3 times to have links...
EDIT!! Once I posted, this was my 3rd post, upon clicking edit, I was able to then make them links again and save the changes! :)

weiler63

02-06-08, 03:40 AM

Thanks mp3car, my friend and I, (a mechanical engineer) are going to give it a shot this coming week. I'll keep you posted afterwards

hoffmanube1

02-27-08, 09:34 PM

you have no clue what you are talking about

ts_mccabe

04-03-08, 02:35 PM

get_zwole

05-14-08, 01:04 AM

i just recently purchased a Sony Bravia KDL-40XBR4 LCD HDTV. im still waiting for it to come in the mail haveing only pruchased it yesturday. my question is how many hdmi cables do i need to hook up my cable box and my ps3? Also after i purchased the TV the company called me to confirm the order. While doing so the customer rep. asked me if i wanted any cables. he said i can get Xtreme HDMI cables to hook up my ps3 and cablebox for 49.99$ a piece which is supposed to be more than 50% off from other stores like bestbuy and circuit city. so i said yes ill take them. is this all i need?2 cables? and did i get ripped off?is Xtreme a good HDMI cable? All help is greatly apreciated. thanks tom

i dont know about if its a good cable or not but just read through this thread monoprice is very widely praised here. The guy at ultimate electronics told me i had to buy a certain bit hdmi cable? the one he was trying to sell me was like 110$i simply said ill get it from somewhere else cause they are overpriced but, are all the cables on monoprice the same bit or is that just a marketing scam like most things? thanks.

joed32

05-14-08, 08:32 AM

I buy Monoprice cheapest HDMI cables, currently using 5 of them and they are fine.

get_zwole

05-14-08, 01:08 PM

good deal thats what im gonna do as well cause ill need 3 more and wow what a waste of money that would be i hate retailers.

Lsimon

05-19-08, 09:15 AM

I've used the Monoprice cables with no problems at all.

Occasionally, when I've needed one and didn't want to wait a couple days for delivery I've gone to a discount place like Walmart, Sams Club or Menards Hardware . As HDMI gets more common they now have some cables that, while higher than Monoprice, are a lot less expensive than stores like Best Buy.

I wouldn't believe the salesmen at the stores that tell you the cable makes a difference. This scam has been going on for 30 years - it started in the 70's with Hi Fi Stereo gear - when someone came up with the idea of selling "premium" speaker wire and connect cables for 5 to 10 times the cost of basic cables. I've known people over the years that got conned into buying speaker wire that costs almost as much as their speakers. The scam goes on and the worst part is that it is taught to salesmen at common TV and Appliance stores as part of their training so they actually believe a $100 cable makes a difference to the average consumer. I just don't believe it.

Now if someone is putting $50,000 into an AV system and they feel that buying $100 or $200 cables is going to help them, then let them. Maybe the quality of such a super high end system is such that an expensive cable makes a difference - although I don't believe it I've read the debates. But if your spending a couple grand, more or less, then buying expensive cables just doesn't make sense.

vrundmc

06-14-08, 12:32 PM

I was having a hard time deciding which cable to get...I have a 42" Panny, Samsung BD-P1400, and soon an onkyo 705. I was looking at these two and one is category 2 and the other isn't (and one is 3ft and the other 6ft) but was confused anyway...sorry to be such a newb.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10243&cs_id=1024003&p_id=3991&seq=1&format=2
or
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10243&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2

get_zwole

06-14-08, 02:06 PM

id get the 6 footer

sdsuman

09-04-08, 07:25 PM

I have three LCD tvs in my house. Bought my first HDMI cable on Amazon.com, the seller was HDMIking(hdmiking.com), I think it was like $7 including shipping, the other 2 I bought were the same brand. All three work perfect.

foundadeal

09-07-08, 10:57 AM

I just purchases the Samsung LN46650 and need to get hdmi cables that support 120hz technology. Both circuit city and best buy want to sell me Monster cables for $130. I need a good 6-8 foot cable for the tv and the blu ray player. I'm reading here that monoprice has great prices and cables. I'm technology challenged so could someone please give me a detailed description of what to buy in layman terms. I'm a dumb redhead. LOL

Thanks so much

marmup

09-07-08, 08:47 PM

Ken H

09-08-08, 03:09 PM

Buy the cheapest HDMI cable you can find, that works.

gonogo

09-13-08, 10:22 PM

Buy the cheapest HDMI cable you can find, that works.

But are you sure they'll provide the same quality? How come Monster even have different type of HDMI cables depending for what you'll use them? I went to BB today to get a cable. The guys there told me if I had a good TV it made sense going for good cable, otherwise I won't get the full picture quality. I'm confused.

joed32

09-14-08, 09:32 AM

gonogo

09-14-08, 11:49 AM

You can believe all of the people that have posted and pay 5 bucks or you can believe the salesman and pay 100. The quality is the same the throughput is the same and the picture is the same. If spending the extra money makes you feel better then do it

Thanks. It's just funny then how Monster is making so much money out of all their HDMI cables. They even have different HDMI cables for different purposes (DVD player, PS3, Xbox, etc...).

Mr. Lizardo

09-14-08, 11:51 AM

Using a $6 Phillips branded 12' HDMI cable I found at Big Lots...works just fine.

tangible

10-02-08, 10:47 AM

What's the purpose of ferrite cores on the ends of the cables? Do I need them?

CoryB23

12-02-08, 11:43 AM

I purchased 2 of these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=3992&seq=1&format=2) to use with my AT&T U-verse boxes since I'll have two tv's with HDMI inputs once my WD-60735 is delivered this weekend.

I've purchased a number of products from Monoprice since 2005 or so and have been very happy with each purchase. It's hard to beat their prices and the quality is top notch.

Razz1

12-03-08, 12:06 AM

skeelo58

12-03-08, 03:23 AM

The 28AWG Monoprice cables look a bit cheap compared to their 24AWG HDMI cables. What's with the cylidrical looking part a couple of inches in from both ends on their 28AWG cables? This is not on their 24AWG. Also many of the reviewers for Monoprice's 24AWG cables list stiffness as being a concern. I have two 3 foot runs, a 10 foot run, and a 12 foot run that i will need to be ordering for in the next couple of days. If I go with Monoprice, 24AWG for all? Also Blue Jeans Cables Series-F2 look like some nice cables. They are 28AWG and don't have that extra cylindrical part. Anyone willing to provide some feedback on the BJC Series-F2?

I would say stay away from the 24 AWG HDMI cables if you are just doing short runs like that. I bought a 6' 24 AWG HDMI, and it is stiff as all hell. Very difficult to bend. I eventually just ordered the 28 AWG and replaced it. Same quality, but much more flexible.

I can't provide any feedback on the Blue Jeans for ya tho :)

Razz1

12-04-08, 12:10 AM

Thanks for the tips. So, does anyone know what the cylindrical part is for on the 28AWG MonoPrice HDMI cables that are a couple of inches in from each end and why this is not seen on other cables?

CRT Dude

12-04-08, 03:08 AM

If the its the first FAQ on the knowledge base tab.
What are ferrite cores? Why are they only on the 28AWG cables?
Ferrite cores are the cylindrical fixtures placed near the connectors to filter noise and high frequency interference.

The size of the ferrite need to be in proportion to the diameter of the cable in order to be effective. At 28AWG they are similar in size to the HDMI connector heads. On thicker gauges they would be significantly larger than the connector. Since the spacing between connections on the back of a device are based on the dimensions of the connectors being used, the ferrites would make connecting any other cable very difficult. The ferrites become unwielding and cumbersome so they have not been included on our heavier gauges. In general, the benefit of heavier gauge outweigh the benefit of the ferrites.

Razz1

12-04-08, 10:39 PM

Thanks for that. I seem to read so much some times that my eyes bleed and yet I miss the obvious at times.

raouliii

12-05-08, 08:00 AM

It's just funny then how Monster is making so much money out of all their HDMI cables. They even have different HDMI cables for different purposes (DVD player, PS3, Xbox, etc...)."There's a sucker born every minute." - David Hannum ;)

CoryB23

12-05-08, 10:57 AM

The only time I've ever bought Monster Cables was when my father worked at Best Buy. The margin on the cables - and all accessories or any brand really - is insane. Now that I don't have such a connection, and outside of a large purchase of Better Cables, I buy predominantly Monoprice products. The quality is very high and the price is very hard to beat. Their customer service was great the one time I had to use it.

My only complaint now is the delayed shipping on my current order. Though their site does have a disclaimer that Priority Mail shipped items will be shipped a day later due to higher than expected order volumes, my order placed on Monday didn't ship until yesterday. I was really hoping to receive the HDMI cables prior to receiving our new tv on Sunday, but it's looking more and more like that won't be the case.

CoryB23

12-05-08, 01:04 PM

I retract my one complaint from the previous post. My mail was just delivered and the 2 HDMI cables I ordered arrived in today's delivery.

I stand by Monoprice cables unequivocally.

joed32

12-06-08, 09:28 AM

They are the fastest shippers I have ever done business with. Glad they came through for you. I had one order take 3 days to arrive and it turned out to be a USPS problem.

Rammitinski

12-06-08, 02:38 PM

Took me a few days when I ordered from them. My CM-7000 CECB from Solid Signal took less than 24 hours (yes, you heard that right).

CoryB23

12-07-08, 08:53 AM

Just wanted to come back and post that so far I'm really enjoying the Monoprice HDMI cables. Only one is in use, but the second will be in the next couple of hours as that's when the new TV is to arrive. The build quality is good, and the signal that my 32" LCD upstairs is receiving is crisper than when the U-verse box was connected via Component. You can actually tell a slight bit of a difference in the picture.

oRabbit

12-11-08, 01:03 PM

o/__\_~..................|
^dead horse..........^stick

Looking through many of the replies here it looks like there's an overall love for monoprice HDMI cables. I just wanted to make sure I got the highest performing cable for my tv. I noticed there wasn't much mention of using these HDMI cables to hook up a tv with 1080p...is there something special needed for that? It seems like I saw somewhere that some HDMI cables only support the 720p...

I'm hooking up a Sony Bravia XBR6 (1080p) to a Sony Bravia Blue-Ray (YAY Christmas!!)

Are these cables at monoprice the best ones to choose?
HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified Cable 28AWG - 6ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold Plated Connectors) - BLACK

I don't really care about the prices at that website, I really don't want to spend $50+ dollars on this, but as noted before, don't want to cheat myself out on quality viewing/listening.

CoryB23

12-11-08, 01:33 PM

Rabbit,

The cables you chose will work just fine for displaying 1080p on your television. I ordered the same and used two to connect an AT&T U-verse box and a PS3 to a 1080p WD-60735, and another to connect to a 720p 32" LCD. Both work fine and 1080p displays perfectly from the PS3 using the monoprice HDMI cable.

2000army

12-12-08, 04:43 PM

Just wanted to thank all of you .... just ordered 3 HDMI cables a few optical cables and hdmi elbow from monoprice .... I am returning my monster cable when i get these in! Thanks Again!

SenpeiRy

12-30-08, 02:14 AM

raouliii

12-30-08, 09:30 AM

There just seems to be something wrong when people spend a few thousand on a tv and refuse to buy a decent cable for it.
Its like buying a luxury car and then putting regular gas into it because you all of a sudden got cheap.It depends on what your definition of "a decent cable" is.

If your definition equals Monster anything, then you have succumbed to the hype and high profit margin that is Monster.

However, if your definition of "a decent cable" includes monoprice, blue jeans, etc. and even the decent store brands such as philips, then I can accept your position.

xraffle

12-30-08, 09:49 AM

hernanu

12-30-08, 10:14 AM

I just find it objectionable to spend ten times the amount for cables that perform equally well just for the name. The technology involved guarantees that your signal, if it comes through will be available at a more than acceptable rate for your display equipment. I don't need an overengineered wire to carry the signal, if I can use a monoprice cable to deliver the same quality signal.

Unless you can prove that the monoprice cable suffers by comparison, I will gladly take my HDMI 1.3 cables I bought in the spring (10 @ about $4 each) and compare it to the price quoted for one Monster cable at Tweeter - $98.

I have had three of the monoprice HDMI cables hooked up to 1080p, 1080i displays, with FIOS HD video service, HD-DVD and other video sources. The cables have happily soldiered on and have not given me a bit of trouble.

I'm an engineer and not unacquainted with what is required to satisfy the HDMI protocol, I think Monster cables are a rip off. IMO of course.

Ratman

12-30-08, 10:24 AM

What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can’t believe the number of cheapskates here. Suck it up and buy Monster cables. Yes, they’re a little bit pricier, but they’ll last longer and they will give you better quality in the long run. Sometimes, they’re on sale at RadioShack. I bought them when they were 50% off and I couldn’t be happier with them.

Cheapskates?:rolleyes:
Cheap cables? No they are "inexpensive". ;)
Buy Mon$ter cables? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

How will/do they last longer?
How do they provide better quality... in the long run?

Even on sale, why spend 5 or 6 times the price?
Monoprice cables make me happier. :D

raouliii

12-30-08, 10:37 AM

What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can’t believe the number of cheapskates here.....I agree with Ratman. Not "cheap", just inexpensive.

..... Suck it up and buy Monster cables. Yes, they’re a little bit pricier, but they’ll last longer and they will give you better quality in the long run. .....Monster cables are not "a little bit pricier". Define "better quality".

..... Sometimes, they’re on sale at RadioShack. I bought them when they were 50% off and I couldn’t be happier with them.That's a great find. But even at 50% off, they STILL made a profit.:eek:

localnet

12-30-08, 10:45 AM

xraffle

12-30-08, 10:51 AM

Monoprice cables make me happier. :D
Well enjoy it. But, the quality of those "inexpensive" cables are low and the picture quality is not at its peak.

xraffle

12-30-08, 10:52 AM

I bought some of those cheap HDMI cables on Amazon for around $2 ea. My eyes cannot see the difference vs a $100 cable, which I have a few of. I swapped em around to see if I could tell. I can't.

Then, see an eye doctor.

My uncle bought those cable from Monoprice for about $4. He was satisfied with it like all of you. Then, I convinced him to buy Monster cables from RadioShack and it was worth it to him because when he hooked it up, the difference was night and day. He would never go back to "inexpensive" cables ever again.

Like I said, if you can’t see a difference between the monoprice cables and the monster ones, you either need to see an eye doctor immediately or your have a bad TV.

raouliii

12-30-08, 11:42 AM

Then, see an eye doctor....
Like I said, if you can’t see a difference between the monoprice cables and the monster ones, you either need to see an eye doctor immediately or your have a bad TV.Let me see if I understand this correctly. HDMI cables, which carry digital signals only, are being discussed in this thread. Is it your belief that monster cables are able to somehow transfer the 1's and 0's differently than the monoprice cables, such that a distinct difference can be SEEN?:confused:

If any 1's or 0's are being lost in their transfer over a cable, a very clear loss of picture quality would result, such as "sparkles". This would be the result of a bad or broken cable, which I don't think is being discussed here.

I will concede that a poorly shielded cable could produce undersirable and visible artifacts, if it is being used in a poorly cabled/ high emi environment. Such an environment might necessitate a better shielded cable or better cable routing practices.

xraffle

12-30-08, 11:48 AM

Let me see if I understand this correctly. HDMI cables, which carry digital signals only, are being discussed in this thread. Is it your belief that monster cables are able to somehow transfer the 1's and 0's differently than the monoprice cables, such that a distinct difference can be SEEN?:confused:

If any 1's or 0's are being lost in their transfer over a cable, a very clear loss of picture quality would result, such as "sparkles". This would be the result of a bad or broken cable, which I don't think is being discussed here.

I will concede that a poorly shielded cable could produce undersirable and visible artifacts, if it is being used in a poorly cabled/ high emi environment. Such an environment might necessitate a better shielded cable or better cable routing practices.
Believe what you will. But to think that “inexpensive” no brand cables have the same quality as cables from a reputable brand like Monster is just plain ignorance. Why don’t I buy a $25 cheap brand DVD player while I’m at it? Don't bother researching. Buy the cheapest DVD player in the market. After all, those $80-100 Sony, Panasonic or Toshiba DVD players are just rip-offs. DVDs are digital, so the quality must be the same.:rolleyes:

Ratman

12-30-08, 12:16 PM

LOL...
I have never seen a night and day difference with HDMI cables.
Mon$ter reputable? And yet another brainwashed by marketing hype.

If you perceive there's a visible difference, then it may be due to the tears in your eyes from parting with your money unnecessarily. ;)

I don't think you'll get much support (or sympathy) from most participants on this forum.

raouliii

12-30-08, 02:10 PM

Believe what you will. But to think that “inexpensive” no brand cables have the same quality as cables from a reputable brand like Monster is just plain ignorance.......I'm not saying that the physical quality of these cables are the same. What I am saying is that both are equally adequate in carrying the 1s and 0s from point A to point B without degradation unless there are extenuating circumstances such as long distance and/or poor environment.

....Why don’t I buy a $25 cheap brand DVD player while I’m at it? Don't bother researching. Buy the cheapest DVD player in the market. After all, those $80-100 Sony, Panasonic or Toshiba DVD players are just rip-offs. DVDs are digital, so the quality must be the same.:rolleyes:Apples and oranges. The difference in quality of DVD players can be measured in the varying qualities of the mechanical, electrical and electronic components and most importantly, IMHO, the deinterlacing components/algorithms.

Thats a far cry from comparing two cables differing only in the wire gauge, shielding, connector quality, thickness of its jacket and pretty labeling.

xraffle

12-30-08, 02:51 PM

wmbjr

12-30-08, 03:09 PM

Here is an interesting test comparing Monster cables and Monoprice cables using Monster's own equipment.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-battlemodo/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-268788.php

I think it demonstrates the fact the Monoprice hold up quite well and are the logical choice for most people. Of course, when the 1440p 12 bit 120Hz stuff comes along, I will have to pay $10 or so for a new cable making my total investment $20 instead of the $70-$100 for monster, but at least those monster folks won't have to take the 10-20 seconds necessary to swap out a cable. :-)

This of course does become a little more of a problem for long runs, but then you have other issues to deal with any way. The main point is that for your normal hookup (6-10 feet) Monster's own equipment shows the monoprice cables pass the test for all current and near future broadcasts.

BVfan

12-30-08, 03:15 PM

hernanu

12-30-08, 03:31 PM

Fine. There’s nothing else I can say because these ignorant thoughts are stuck in your head and there’s no way to take them out. Enjoy your the crummy picture from your “inexpensive” cables while I enjoy the beautiful, high quality picture that I’m getting from my Monster cables.

Ooookay.. .

HDMI is a digital transmission protocol. It is not an analog protocol, and as such is not as reliant on the line quality as analog (say from a DVD player through analog lines to a TV) signals are. It is also an encoded signal, which means that the actual bits are encoded to ensure delivery. The combination (digital and encoding) increases the reliability of the signal and lowers the error rate of delivery.

The increased reliability means that more exotic and expensive carriers are not necessary to deliver the same quality. The HDMI specification itself dictates the performance of the signal, so that any cable calling itself HDMI has to deliver the same performance theoretically. In practice, obviously this may vary, but (I've heard, correct if wrong, please) most cables perform equally up to 15 ft lenghts.

If you have better information, please share that, otherwise, it is a perception thing, not something that is based on actual technical facts. If you prefer Monster cables, then that is your choice, but it is not based on technical facts, just personal viewpoints.

Ratman

12-30-08, 03:31 PM

Fine. There’s nothing else I can say because these ignorant thoughts are stuck in your head and there’s no way to take them out.

Kettles calling pots black. :D

raouliii

12-30-08, 04:32 PM

Fine. There’s nothing else I can say because these ignorant thoughts are stuck in your head and there’s no way to take them out.....I'm at a loss for words. :o

....Enjoy your the crummy picture from your “inexpensive” cables while I enjoy the beautiful, high quality picture that I’m getting from my Monster cables.WOW. :confused:

This helps explain your intransigent Monster allegiance.
:D
It's because smaller HDTV screens aren't big enough to notice the difference. It doesn't make it look bad, it's just that it's not big enough to show the difference. This is why buying a 32" 1080p HDTV is a waste of money today. You should buy at least a 46" if you want a 1080p TV.
I’m looking to find a nice Samsung or Sony 19” LCD HDTV, but the problem is they’re all 720p. I want 1080p because it’s better. Where can I find one? Can you provide a link with your response, if you can? Thanks.:p

xraffle

12-30-08, 07:20 PM

Raouliii: Had you read my other thread I started here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102140), you'd notice that I'm buying a TV for my friend. First he said he wanted a 4:3 19" 1080p, but after I told him they don't make them, he said he would accept a bigger one then. I have the Samsung LN32A450 720p TV and the reason I bought a 720p TV is because after hours of research, that TV is too small of a size to notice a difference. But my friend thinks otherwise because he thinks 1080p is a higher resolution so it obviously has to be the best. In short, I was speaking for my friend because I'm dying to get him an LCD as gift because he is like the only person in the world that's a true friend and buying him a new TV is the least I could do to show my appreciation. Believe my story or not, but I'm done. Enjoy your monoprice cables and I'll enjoy my high quality ones. I've seen both and trust me, I know there is a difference. If you don't see it now, don't worry, it'll catch up to you eventually.

skeelo58

12-30-08, 07:48 PM

Seriously, xraffle, you are ridiculous. Show some proof that Monster cables are better than Monoprice, or any other HDMI cable. We are not accepting your claim that "my eyes tell me that Monster is better". Show some scientific proof. Don't worry, we will all wait around for a couple days for you.

I personally guarantee that if I were to sneak in your home, exchange your Monster HDMI cables with Monoprice ones, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have bought into the Monster hype, and I actually feel sorry for you.

One last thing..... nobody believes your story about the "friend who wants a 19" 1080p TV" We all know that is you. You bought into the hype that 1080p is better, so therefore, you must have it. Same thing with you and your Monster cables.

Just curious, how much is Monster paying you to come on here and plug their products? I bet it's a lot. After all, they do have boat loads of money to throw around, cuz they price their products ridiculously high.

knightc2

12-31-08, 12:00 AM

monoprice ftw! Monster cables are nice, but way over priced. Go ahead and buy Monster if you want but I'll take monoprice any day and still have $$$ left over for beer and pretzels.

xraffle

12-31-08, 10:39 AM

Monster cables are nice, but way over priced.
Fine, I'll agree with that comment. Maybe Monster Cables do cost more money, but for people here to say they're bad quality is just plain crazy talk.

I've had issues with buying cheap composite cables before. I'd either get some weird line on the screen or some humming sound from the audio. And when I bought a "digital" audio coax cable for my home theater, I got frequent drop outs of audio. And I'll remind you that this is a "digital" cable that transmits a digital audio signal. So, I replaced them all with Monster cables and all those problems were eliminated. No more line on the screen, no more humming sound, and no more audio drop out. Even RadioShacks audio cables are junk. I had to buy Monster audio cables to finally get that darn humming sound to go away. Yes, I know we're talking about HDMI cables and not composite, but I'm just stating an example between Monster cables and no brand cables. They're "inexpensive" for a reason. Anyways, what I'm getting at is that Monster cables do not have bad quality. If any of you had that experience, then you probably got a defective cable. Had I bought Monster composite cables to begin with, I would've saved a TON of money because I ended up spending extra money on garbage cables.

Just curious, how much is Monster paying you to come on here and plug their products? I bet it's a lot. After all, they do have boat loads of money to throw around, cuz they price their products ridiculously high.
I wish I was getting paid, but I'm not. I feel Monster cables have good quality and that's my opinion. So sue me.

raouliii

12-31-08, 11:21 AM

Fine, I'll agree with that comment. Maybe Monster Cables do cost more money, but for people here to say they're bad quality is just plain crazy talk......I don't recall ANYONE in this thread claiming that Monster cables were bad quality. I would suggest you quote that post to support your claim. I consider them overpriced and a high profit item, which is why they are hyped by Monster and retailers.

I personally believe that Monster cables have excellent quality. However, there are MANY other, quality, cables that will do the job just as well as the Monsters and cost MUCH less.

xraffle

12-31-08, 11:35 AM

I don't recall ANYONE in this thread claiming that Monster cables were bad quality. I would suggest you quote that post to support your claim. I consider them overpriced and a high profit item, which is why they are hyped by Monster and retailers.

I personally believe that Monster cables have excellent quality. However, there are MANY other, quality, cables that will do the job just as well as the Monsters and cost MUCH less.
Well, nobody here actually said it was bad quality, but that was what people here were implying by getting mad at me because I choose to buy them. I thought that was the main reason why we've been arguing all this time.

Maybe you can find good quality cables at a cheaper price, but the problem is, you don't know for sure. You are taking a chance. You have to buy it, try it and then if it's good quality, you're in luck. If it's not good quality, then you just wasted money on garbage. At least with Monster cables, I'm 100% guaranteed that I'm not buying garbage cables.

hernanu

12-31-08, 12:07 PM

Well, nobody here actually said it was bad quality, but that was what people here were implying by getting mad at me because I choose to buy them. I thought that was the main reason why we've been arguing all this time.

Maybe you can find good quality cables at a cheaper price, but the problem is, you don't know for sure. You are taking a chance. You have to buy it, try it and then if it's good quality, you're in luck. If it's not good quality, then you just wasted money on garbage. At least with Monster cables, I'm 100% guaranteed that I'm not buying garbage cables.

I don't think anyone here was upset that you choose to buy them. Whatever you choose to do doesn't affect me. The argument was with your statement that (quoting your post):

"What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can’t believe the number of cheapskates here. Suck it up and buy Monster cables. Yes, they’re a little bit pricier, but they’ll last longer and they will give you better quality in the long run. Sometimes, they’re on sale at RadioShack. I bought them when they were 50% off and I couldn’t be happier with them."

Skipping over the insults, basically you stated several things that are not backed up by anything but your beliefs and personal opinion:

1. Monster is a bit pricier when they are much more expensive.
2. They give you better quality, which is what most people here are concerned about. We have many posts here that have the opposite experience, that Monoprice cables are in fact just as good for most purposes as Monster cables, at a much reduced price.

No one implied anything denigrating the quality of Monster cables. The point was that the quality of the Monoprice cables is more than enough for most applications at an order of magnitude of price less. Four of these cables is a blueray player.

Ratman

12-31-08, 12:22 PM

I think the Poll results pretty much sums it all up! :)

MauneyM

12-31-08, 12:44 PM

What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can’t believe the number of cheapskates here. Suck it up and buy Monster cables.

Why should I/we?

Yes, they’re a little bit pricier,

No, they are a LOT more expensive.

they’ll last longer

Based on what testing, in what environment?

I actually fell prey to Monster advertising and a sales pitch for some speaker cables when I was much younger (almost 20 years ago). I still have those speaker cables as a reminder of why I will NEVER buy Monster products again. I could go into detail with photos, but the upshot of my experience is that the plain 14-gauge zip cord I bought at Home Depot lasted longer and performed better than the Monster Cable.

and they will give you better quality in the long run.

"better quality"? In what way? Picture quality? Can't be that, as any digital cable meeting the HDMI spec will give the exact same picture. Audio quality? Can't be that - it's just another digital signal. Perceived quality? OK, how many $$$ is that worth?

MauneyM

12-31-08, 12:47 PM

Well enjoy it. But, the quality of those "inexpensive" cables are low and the picture quality is not at its peak.

OK, please explain to a few of the engineers on this board how a digital signal (HDMI) is going to be affected in any way other than obvious "sparklies" or pixel dropouts?

If the signal is within the receiving equipment's ability to decode, there will be no degradation in picture quality.

MauneyM

12-31-08, 12:58 PM

Fine, I'll agree with that comment. Maybe Monster Cables do cost more money, but for people here to say they're bad quality is just plain crazy talk.

The Monster HDMI cables aren't poor quality, but they are priced at 5-10x what a fair price should be.

The Monster speaker cables I have dealt with in the past were of EXTREMELY poor quality, and actually had smaller conductors made of lower-grade copper than basic zip-cord selling for 10% as much.

I've had issues with buying cheap composite cables before. I'd either get some weird line on the screen or some humming sound from the audio.

Analog signals are different from digital. With an analog signal, there is ALWAYS some signal degradation induced by the cable. Differences in cable construction will change the type and amount of signal degradation.

However, I would point out that BlueJeansCable makes far better analog cables than Monster, for lower prices. I can't speak for Monoprice in this area, as I have not used their analog cables.

And when I bought a "digital" audio coax cable for my home theater, I got frequent drop outs of audio. And I'll remind you that this is a "digital" cable that transmits a digital audio signal.

Sure it's a digital signal. What spec was your cheap coax cable tested to? (I'm assuming it wasn't tested to ANY spec.) This is different from HDMI in that HDMI has specific test requirements - there is no corresponding standard for a normal SPDIF connection.

So, I replaced them all with Monster cables and all those problems were eliminated. No more line on the screen, no more humming sound, and no more audio drop out.

Very believable, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with HDMI, nor does it have anything to do with Monoprice, BlueJeans, or any of the other reputable low-price cables mentioned in this thread.

xraffle

12-31-08, 01:53 PM

Whoa! Three essays to respond to. Too many things to say that I haven't said already.

You guys aren't saying that all cables are constructed the same way, whether they're Monster on "inexpensive" ones? I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

The Monster speaker cables I have dealt with in the past were of EXTREMELY poor quality, and actually had smaller conductors made of lower-grade copper than basic zip-cord selling for 10% as much.
You do realize that Monster sells low end cables and high end ones as well. Buy the high end ones. Oh wait. I'm sorry. It costs too much. Well never mind then.

MauneyM

12-31-08, 02:10 PM

You guys aren't saying that all cables are constructed the same way, whether they're Monster on "inexpensive" ones? I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

Clearly, you don't have a clue about what Monoprice sells, or know much about the HDMI spec. Any cable that is HDMI Category 2 compliant can carry 1080p.

I suggest you do some research on the specs you seem to be so fond of not quoting. You could start here:

http://www.hdmi.com/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=3#15

Here's a quote for you, from the HDMI spec FAQ:

Q. What’s new in the HDMI 1.3 Specification?

> Higher speed: Although all previous versions of HDMI have had more than enough bandwidth to support all current HDTV formats, including full, uncompressed 1080p signals, HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates.

In short, any salesman who tells you that you need a cable rated for HDMI 1.3a to be compatible with 1080p is either lying, misinformed, or just plain ignorant. I've heard several salespeople in big-box stores tell people this and use it as an excuse to up-sell them into an expensive Monster HDMI cable that they simply didn't need.

You do realize that Monster sells low end cables and high end ones as well. Buy the high end ones. Oh wait. I'm sorry. It costs too much. Well never mind then.

The ones that crapped out WERE the high end Monster line, bought at a VERY high-end store (any place that stocks a pair of the $250K McIntosh speakers can safely be considered high-end, dontcha think?). To be fair, the two salesmen at that store that I work with never tried to convince me that I needed to buy Monster - I did that to myself, since I was young and naive. Since then, they have started carrying a much lower-priced, higher-quality line of cables that they recommend. Interestingly, though, a lot of people still come in and request Monster by name - and the store will happily take their money (why wouldn't they?).

Have you ever noticed that Monster never puts standard wire gauge info on their speaker wires? Are you aware that this is the single most important specification for speaker wire? Why do you think they would systematically refuse to provide the single most important piece of data for one of their flagship products? Hmmmmm....perhaps it's because their marketing is designed to convince people who don't understand the technology that they should spend more $$$$? Maybe?

You need to realize that you are arguing with a group of people who know an awful lot about this subject, and you have made multiple statements that simply cannot be backed up with facts. for myself, I may not be the world's biggest expert on high-speed cable design, but I am an engineer with multiple patents and a lot of design experience under my belt. I recognize snake oil when I see it.

Ratman

12-31-08, 02:12 PM

I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

Tired of running uphill yet? :p
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=4025&seq=1&format=3#specification

xraffle

12-31-08, 02:32 PM

In short, any salesman who tells you that you need a cable rated for HDMI 1.3a to be compatible with 1080p is either lying, misinformed, or just plain ignorant. I've heard several salespeople in big-box stores tell people this and use it as an excuse to up-sell them into an expensive Monster HDMI cable that they simply didn't need.
Ah, salesmen! I forgot about that. Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.

Tired of running uphill yet? :p
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=4025&seq=1&format=3#specification
Wow, you actually believe that?! Like I said, my uncle bought some monoprice cables that were "gold-plated" but they really weren't. Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality. Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation. Never mind then

xraffle

12-31-08, 02:38 PM

You need to realize that you are arguing with a group of people who know an awful lot about this subject, and you have made multiple statements that simply cannot be backed up with facts. for myself, I may not be the world's biggest expert on high-speed cable design, but I am an engineer with multiple patents and a lot of design experience under my belt. I recognize snake oil when I see it.
Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

BVfan

12-31-08, 02:49 PM

Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

Which one of these should I buy for my 1080p Sammy?

http://www.monstercable.com/home_av/hdmi.asp

Which one do you have?

raouliii

12-31-08, 03:08 PM

.... Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.
...... :eek: Again, I'm speechless. :p

Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.:cool: How long is "all of my life"?

xraffle

12-31-08, 03:25 PM

Which one of these should I buy for my 1080p Sammy?

http://www.monstercable.com/home_av/hdmi.asp

Which one do you have?
I have this one: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3832
I have the 4 ft. one, which is not listed there for some reason.

But wow, I see what you guys are talking about. I got that on sale for $20 at RadioShack. I say, wait for a sale. Don't buy it at that site.

BVfan

12-31-08, 03:48 PM

I have this one: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3832
I have the 4 ft. one, which is not listed there for some reason.

But wow, I see what you guys are talking about. I got that on sale for $20 at RadioShack. I say, wait for a sale. Don't buy it at that site.

Cheapest site on line had a 1 meter 700HD like yours for $44.95. Cheapest I have ever seen any Monster product is 50% off at electronics stores going out of business. Your price is very unusual, but sometimes RS does stuff like that.

xraffle

12-31-08, 04:06 PM

Your price is very unusual, but sometimes RS does stuff like that.
It was on sale. 50% off. I don't know why they had the sale, but they do that sometimes and I take advantage of it.

xraffle

12-31-08, 04:07 PM

Sorry. Double post. Disregard this.

MauneyM

12-31-08, 04:12 PM

Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality.

I suggest you do some research - maybe a basic electronics course? Ever heard of Faraday's laws? Ohm's law? Some basic theory regarding shielding and mutual inductance might help you understand what we're trying to tell you.

Your statement here is enough to prove that you do not understand the most basic concepts of how signals travel in a cable.

Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation.

No, we all "believe" in signal degradation. However, the guys you are trying to argue with actually understand what signal degradation means, and also understand how to read an eye pattern on a scope.

Now, I'll ask for your technical opinion - what difference is there between a signal that is very slightly inside - say 25% - the allowable tolerance for a digital input as opposed to a signal that is 50% of the way between the ideal and the limit? How does the input detection circuit respond to this difference, and why is it significant? What would you expect the impact to be on the picture displayed on the screen? Why?

Also, since you seem to be an "expert", I'll ask you this: What is the danger in going beyond 6 feet unnecessarily? Which of the following effects would expect the difference to be manifested in?

> Increased signal rise time
> Reduced peak signal voltage
> Increased hysteresis in the transmitter
> Increased hysteresis in the receiver
> Increased conducted EMI
> Increased radiated EMI
> Increased conducted EMI susceptibility
> Increased radiated EMI susceptibility

Once you've told us which if these you expect to be the danger of on overly-long cable, then you should be able to describe why that is. What physical mechanism acting within the cable do you expect will be the cause for the reduced performance?

I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

"Both worlds"? Which two worlds would those be? I'm guessing that digital electronics design isn't one of them...

Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.

Uhmmm....yeah, right.:rolleyes:

The last time I asked a Best Buy salesman about a display's handling of 1080p/24, he really put me in my place with his superior knowledge. Especially when he went to his website to try to figure out what I meant by 5:5 pulldown vs. 3:2. Yeah, those part-time college students know a lot more about electronics design than a 20-year veteran engineer.....:rolleyes:

Please tell me this was a troll response....

Ratman

12-31-08, 04:24 PM

Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.
Ha-ha... No they don't lie. And 98% of them don't know any better than....... perhaps you? :D

Wow, you actually believe that?! Like I said, my uncle bought some monoprice cables that were "gold-plated" but they really weren't.
And 99% of connectors are not "real" gold. It's only gold in coloring.:rolleyes:

Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality.
Bleh.... read the spec's on gauges of the cable your buy. They are basically the same. The gauge is typically thicker based on the length of cable. No need for 22AWG for short runs.

Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation. Never mind then
You should read the selections. You can get 1.5' to xx'.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240

Seriously.... you make many assumptions and have many misconceptions. Enjoy your Mon$ter cables.... just don't try to reel in others with your myths.

Back to school on Monday. Finish your dinner and finish your homework before beddy-byes. :)

knightc2

12-31-08, 04:31 PM

Wow! This is great reading.

I knew lots of Best Buy employees and none of them were well versed in anything but selling extended warranties. I also happen to work part time at a Radio Shack and have used and sold lots of way over priced Radio Shack and Monster cables. We also sell "lessor" brands and I cringe when people insist on buying the "high end" stuff when they could have bought brand X for 1/4 the cost and not noticed a lick of difference. In fact, in a pinch I recently bought a $60 Radio Shack HDMI cable (no I didn't pay that much) because I gave my lowly Monoprice cable to my In-Laws so they could watch their new Blu-Ray player. I ordered a new one from Monoprice and it was not only less $$ but it was lower gauge and better built. I returned the Radio Shack cable.

To sum up, Monoprice cables are very well made and a bargain at the prices they sell for. Monster Cable and other high end brands are way overpriced and in most cases are not worth it.

xraffle

12-31-08, 05:03 PM

In fact, in a pinch I recently bought a $60 Radio Shack HDMI cable (no I didn't pay that much) because I gave my lowly Monoprice cable to my In-Laws so they could watch their new Blu-Ray player. I ordered a new one from Monoprice and it was not only less $$ but it was lower gauge and better built. I returned the Radio Shack cable.
Uh, did you even try the RadioShack ones? It should be a night and day difference.

Ratman

12-31-08, 05:25 PM

Uh... have you ever tried Monoprice cables? May be no difference compared to Mon$ter...

xraffle

12-31-08, 05:36 PM

Uh... have you ever tried Monoprice cables? May be no difference compared to Mon$ter...
Must I repeat everything?
"I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about."

Ratman

12-31-08, 05:42 PM

Must I ask again... have you tried cables from Monoprice?

How long is "all of your life"?

xraffle

12-31-08, 05:45 PM

Must I ask again... have you tried cables from Monoprice?
What part of "both worlds" don't you get? YES, I've tried them and I've tried many other "inexpensive" ones too. Monster cables are better. Apparently, I'm dealing with people that don't know how to read plain English. No, wonder why Monoprice was able to brainwash you.

Believe me or not. I don't care. It's your loss not mine.

Seriously, how much is Monoprice paying you people to market their cables? If it's good money they're paying, then maybe I'll join your team.

Ratman

12-31-08, 05:57 PM

Okay. Even though I don't believe you, that's okay. It can end here.

Again... the poll and everyone else must be wrong. ;)

No brainwashing whatsoever from Monoprice. They don't jack up prices to offset advertising/marketing costs that get passed on to the consumer.

I've experienced "both worlds" all of my life.

knightc2

12-31-08, 06:19 PM

Uh, did you even try the RadioShack ones? It should be a night and day difference.

As far as picture quality is concerned they were identical. I returned them because I saved $5 by buying at monoprice. Night and Day? If it was really a night and day difference most of the folks here would pay the extra $$$ and buy the Monster Cable products. The only thing that is night and day is the price.

xraffle

12-31-08, 06:25 PM

If it was really a night and day difference most of the folks here would pay the extra $$$ and buy the Monster Cable products. The only thing that is night and day is the price.
LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.

MauneyM

12-31-08, 07:37 PM

LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.

No. People who understand the underlying technology define the specs their components must meet - including cables - then purchase the product(s) that meet their specs at the best value. While your favorite product may meet the required spec, it is well-known as one of the worst values on the market.

You clearly don't understand the specification, so you don't seem to have set yourself a clear spec target to meet the requirements of your system. I am assuming that this has resulted in your buying into the snake oil sales pitch.

I also noted that you have yet to back up any of your claims with any sort of technical explanation of WHY your particular brand of HDMI cable will perform better than anything else on the market. Simply stating that you see a "huge difference" doesn't cut it on a forum that is heavily focused on verifiable claims and hard data.

Must I repeat everything?
"I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about."

You also have yet to explain what you mean by "both worlds". Must we repeat every question?

BVfan

01-01-09, 11:18 AM

LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.

I beg to differ. MOST people that have been following HD technology since its inception input to this forum. For MANY quality and early adaption has been at a high cost. Part of the reason many of us come here is to get input from experienced people in their chosen field, like MauneyM.

If Monster products would show even a 20% increase in quality/performance over other less expensive products, many people in this forum would have no problem spending the extra money. Real world bench tests do not show Monster products to be superior to less expensive products with similar specs.

Personal perception is another world, which must be one of the "both" worlds you speak of. If a person perceives something to be superior, then in their mind it is. This gives one piece of mind with their buying decision. Nothing wrong with that.

The thing about the Best Buy employees, my son's friend works there ... it is easy to trash them, but they have training seminars given by Monster salesman - they are told to sell up -- they get awesome discounts and sometimes free samples of Monster products - why wouldn't you push the product.

xraffle

01-01-09, 11:38 AM

I beg to differ. MOST people that have been following HD technology since its inception input to this forum. For MANY quality and early adaption has been at a high cost. Part of the reason many of us come here is to get input from experienced people in their chosen field, like MauneyM.
Oh, give me a break. He doesn't know a thing. He's got you all brainwashed.

If Monster products would show even a 20% increase in quality/performance over other less expensive products, many people in this forum would have no problem spending the extra money. Real world bench tests do not show Monster products to be superior to less expensive products with similar specs.

The problem is: none of you even tried the Monster products. You look at the price, freak out, and buy monoprice because they're cheaper.

I can understand you people prefer Monoprice cables because they're cheaper and seem to give decent quality. But to say that Monster and Monoprice cables have the same EXACT quality is just plain crazy talk.

Oh and btw, I visited my uncle and I took a look at his so-called "gold-plated" HDMI cables that he got from Monoprice. It turns out, it wasn't even gold-plated, it was silver, even though it was advertised as gold-plated. So, don't believe all the specs you see at monoprice.com. I'll be glad to provide the link and a picture of what he received as evidence. Let me know if you would like me to prove it.

Ratman

01-01-09, 12:14 PM

The problem is: none of you even tried the Monster products. You look at the price, freak out, and buy monoprice because they're cheaper.
No... your are quite incorrect. And price has nothing to do with it, if there was a direct correlation of price to performance compared to other cable/wire manufacturers.

I can understand you people prefer Monoprice cables because they're cheaper and seem to give decent quality. But to say that Monster and Monoprice cables have the same EXACT quality is just plain crazy talk. You people?? You mean everyone but you? Crazy talk? Even Mon$ter can't make two "identical" cables. They either meet spec or don't. Monoprice meets spec.

Oh and btw, I visited my uncle and I took a look at his so-called "gold-plated" HDMI cables that he got from Monoprice. It turns out, it wasn't even gold-plated, it was silver, even though it was advertised as gold-plated. So, don't believe all the specs you see at monoprice.com. I'll be glad to provide the link and a picture of what he received as evidence. Let me know if you would like me to prove it.Yeah okay... that's probably why the Mon$ter cable outperformed the Monoprice cable. :rolleyes:

And gold plating is more gimmick than benefit.

And BTW... if he got the wrong cable delivered, he should have exchanged it.

BVfan

01-01-09, 12:29 PM

The problem is: none of you even tried the Monster products. You look at the price, freak out, and buy monoprice because they're cheaper.

Can't speak for others but I have "tried" or presently am using the following Monster products ...

2 x Home Theater Power Bar 1100 - in use - Have since purchased a Belkin that was less expensive and better specs and UL listed for my 3rd HD setup
1 x HDMI cable - Took back - no performance increase - the cable that came with the HDTV gave me the same picture when I ran various tests
1 x DVI cable - Took back - no performance increase
3 x Component Cables - Don't use if you disconnect and reconnect equipment very much as they are difficult to pull off without wrecking either the equipement or the connector
3 x S-Video cables - all in my cable drawer
2 x Optical toslink cables - both in use
1 x Digital Audio RCA cable - in use
3 x RG6 coaxial cables - 1 in use

Even though I have some Monster products in use, I see no better performance with any of them. Many were purchased over 6 years ago when there were few reasonable alternatives, some I got free, some at clearance prices from business going out of business.

When a person has $5,000-10,000 invested in electronics, spending an extra $40-60 on a cable in not an issue. The issue is giving unneeded money to someone who does nothing more that market a name with neat advertising.

So when I hook up a 35 ft HDMI cable to my projector should I buy two Monster cables and a Monster coupler for $375-675, depending on the grade, or should I buy a single cable with the same specs from a reputable vendor for $60-75? Personally, I would much rather throw that $300-600 into the projector because I WILL see a performance increase.

MauneyM

01-01-09, 12:37 PM

Oh, give me a break. He doesn't know a thing. He's got you all brainwashed.
Right.......

OK, would you care to answer ANY of the technical questions that have been posted yet - from me or any of the several other people here who have asked you to explain how you somehow know something that is outside of design specs and measured data?

Look, I put a 30' BlueJeansCable HDMI cable in conduit in my wall for my projector (JVC RS-1). It cost me less than a 12' Monster HDMI would have. It works absolutely correctly at 1080p/60, 1080p/24, and every other resolution I've thrown at it. The signal is absolutely perfect - no drop-outs, no sync/negotiation issues, no pixel drop-outs, nothing. Trust me - on a 100" screen in a light-controlled room you WILL notice if there are issues with the video quality.

What is interesting to note is that I saw no difference in actual video quality between this cable and the 6' el cheapo that came with the D* box (used in testing, while the HT was still under construction). Both worked perfectly (though I'd bet $100 that the same cheapo design wouldn't work worth a hoot at 20'). The point is that once you reach the point that the bit transitions are consistently within the receiver's ability to resolve them, there is no benefit to a "better" signal - it will not change the resulting bitstream, so it will not affect the audio or video quality. Period.

Feel free to pay more - it's your right.

However, when you try to tell people that there is some magical quality difference above and beyond the ability for the receiver to properly, consistently resolve the transmitted bits, and that you cannot explain it technically......well, what do you expect?

xraffle

01-01-09, 01:22 PM

And BTW... if he got the wrong cable delivered, he should have exchanged it.
It wasn't the wrong cable. It was exactly as pictured, only it was silver-plated, not gold-plated.

xraffle

01-01-09, 01:26 PM

Look, I put a 30' BlueJeansCable HDMI cable in conduit in my wall for my projector (JVC RS-1). It cost me less than a 12' Monster HDMI would have. It works absolutely correctly at 1080p/60, 1080p/24, and every other resolution I've thrown at it. The signal is absolutely perfect - no drop-outs, no sync/negotiation issues, no pixel drop-outs, nothing. Trust me - on a 100" screen in a light-controlled room you WILL notice if there are issues with the video quality.
Whoa!!! Now I know you don't have any knowledge. 30' HDMI cable??!!! That's wayyy too long. I can't even begin to imagine how much signal loss you must be getting.

Feel free to pay more - it's your right.

However, when you try to tell people that there is some magical quality difference above and beyond the ability for the receiver to properly, consistently resolve the transmitted bits, and that you cannot explain it technically......well, what do you expect?
Yes, I have a right to pay more if I feel like it. And yes, there is a difference, at least to my eyes there are. If you can't see it, then fine, stick with the inexpensive ones.

Ratman

01-01-09, 01:34 PM

Not exactly what was pictured, right? Therefore wrong cable.
Exchange or return the cable.

BVfan

01-01-09, 02:18 PM

Whoa!!! Now I know you don't have any knowledge. 30' HDMI cable??!!! That's wayyy too long. I can't even begin to imagine how much signal loss you must be getting.

If 30' is wayyy to long, why would Monster sell a 75 foot HDMI cable?
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3831
When HDMI first came out, it was felt 15 feet was the upper limit. With today's technology, materials and techniques, that limit is thought to be in the 45-50 ft range after which you may need bosters, etc. This can be bench tested in the real world to see if a cable meets the specs.

Posted by MauneyM - Trust me - on a 100" screen in a light-controlled room you WILL notice if there are issues with the video quality.
Exactly!!!!

Ratman

01-01-09, 02:32 PM

Mon$ter:
75 ft. length - 22.86 m. MC 1000HD-75 128069-00 $699.95 ea

Monoprice:
HDMI Tin-Plated Copper CL2 Rated (for In-Wall Installation) Cable (22AWG) - 75ft (Gold Plated Connectors) $88.94

I wonder how much better picture/audio quality an additional ~$600 provides. ;)

xraffle

01-01-09, 02:36 PM

I repeat: Nobody should be buying long HDMI cables. Try not to go beyond 4 feet. If you need something a bit longer, 6 feet is ok but nothing longer.

Mon$ter:
75 ft. length - 22.86 m. MC 1000HD-75 128069-00 $699.95 ea
LMAO!!! $700!!! Wow, that's more expensive than my HDTV. But seriously, 75 ft. cables (no matter what brand) are a terrible! Like I said, the longest cables you should be getting is 6 ft. I suggest you move your electronics closer to your TV. Why do you have them sooo far apart?

Ratman

01-01-09, 02:40 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
All this time I thought you were serious! I now see you are just joking around.

xraffle

01-01-09, 02:47 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
All this time I thought you were serious! I now see you are just joking around.
I wasn't. I don't buy 75 ft. cables because I have my electronics closer to my TV, so I didn't know that it cost that much.

My HDMI cable is 4 feet and it cost me $20 at RadioShack. That's fair price if you ask me.

BTW- If I would've listened to people like you and always go the cheapest route, I would've bought an Insignia or Dynex HDTV because people claim that those brands "get the job done" at their low prices. But I didn't. I went for a Samsung and ended up paying more and it was worth it.

BVfan

01-01-09, 03:26 PM

BTW- If I would've listened to people like you and always go the cheapest route, I would've bought an Insignia or Dynex HDTV because people claim that those brands "get the job done" at their low prices. But I didn't. I went for a Samsung and ended up paying more and it was worth it.

So if you spent less than $700 on your 32" Sammy, you probably have a 500 series LCD. Why not spend more and buy a 600 series or look at Pioneer KURO TVs, etc.? Probably because you got a TV that was better than the low end riff-raff, was less expensive than the best out there, but fit your needs.

That is how I buy my cables. Don't buy the $1.50 crap, buy the $10 cable that works. And not buy a $50 cable that has unproven benefits.

I think you will find there is much more agreement on what brand/type of cable to buy on these forums than what TV/projector to buy.

If you wonder why people need long cable runs - multiple displays from a single source - hidden electronics - home theaters - many reasons.

Go here --> http://www.electronichouse.com/

raouliii

01-01-09, 03:40 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
All this time I thought you were serious! I now see you are just joking around.:p ;)
I still want to know the definition of "all of my life"? I just can't imagine that it has been very long.

skeelo58

01-01-09, 03:44 PM

Oh and btw, I visited my uncle and I took a look at his so-called "gold-plated" HDMI cables that he got from Monoprice. It turns out, it wasn't even gold-plated, it was silver, even though it was advertised as gold-plated.

You do realize that silver is more desirable than gold when it comes to connectors of electronic equipment, don't you? The only reason gold is used is because of its resistance to corrosion, not because of its superior electrical signal transfer.

Silver is a better conductor than gold is.

TeddyRiley

01-01-09, 04:05 PM

Happy New Year everyone. Sorry if this has been asked and answered elsewhere. I started a different thread, but it appears this is probably the more appropriate place to ask this question.

So I got a PS3 for Christmas and did some searches for an HDMI cable and ended up purchasing a Monster Ultra 800 for about $30 (great price, original retail tagged at about $150), but I believe it is discontinued model. I'm using a 46" Sony LCD Bravia 1080p.

The packaging of the Monster cable says it reaches "a maximum HD resolution of 720p/1080i". I notice it does not "reach" 1080p specifically, although my TV is supposedly displaying blu-ray content in 1080p. Perhaps this is because the Ultra model is an earlier generation cable (hence the now cheaper price). The Monster website shows newer model cables that specifically support 1080p. This can all be marketing hype, which I hear what makes Monster expensive in the first place. My question is, is it true that this cable only reaches 1080i and I might not be getting a 1080p picture by using this "older" Monster cable?

Anyone lend some insight to this? I'm tempted with going with a "newer" HDMI cable (maybe the $5 monoprice cable regarded on this forum) But if there really is no difference in picture quality, and I'm getting a true 1080p picture, then I won't.

MauneyM

01-01-09, 04:11 PM

I repeat: Nobody should be buying long HDMI cables. Try not to go beyond 4 feet. If you need something a bit longer, 6 feet is ok but nothing longer.

Are you joking, or just completely out of touch?

I assume you realize that a home theater installation with a projector requires a long-run connection. Somehow, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to put the entire equipment rack in the ceiling over the center seating position (which is where the projector is)....

LMAO!!! $700!!! Wow, that's more expensive than my HDTV.

A <$700 display, and you're telling us you can discern the difference between different types of HDMI cable.......

OK, I get it now - you're playing with us. I guess I took the bait....

[ROTFLMFAO]

Ratman

01-01-09, 04:13 PM

:p ;)
I still want to know the definition of "all of my life"? I just can't imagine that it has been very long.

I'd go with 28 years old.:cool:

Ratman

01-01-09, 04:14 PM

MauneyM

01-01-09, 04:14 PM

TeddyRiley

01-01-09, 04:18 PM

Your question has been answered on the thread you started. Please don't cross-post.

Apologies. You're absolutely right.

Thanks Mauney, sounds good.

BVfan

01-01-09, 04:42 PM

I'd go with 28 years old.:cool:

Would that be in "both worlds"?;)

xraffle

01-01-09, 04:51 PM

So if you spent less than $700 on your 32" Sammy, you probably have a 500 series LCD. Why not spend more and buy a 600 series or look at Pioneer KURO TVs, etc.? Probably because you got a TV that was better than the low end riff-raff, was less expensive than the best out there, but fit your needs.
I guess I see your point. But the main reason I bought the Sammy is because it has one of the best reviews, both on CNET and from actual customers. And my TV cost $588 because I got it on sale during Thanksgiving.

But a Pioneer Kuro TV?? I have other bills to pay, ya know. I don't want to end up watching my TV in the poor house. :D

skeelo58

01-01-09, 05:16 PM

I guess I see your point. But the main reason I bought the Sammy is because it has one of the best reviews, both on CNET and from actual customers. And my TV cost $588 because I got it on sale during Thanksgiving.

But a Pioneer Kuro TV?? I have other bills to pay, ya know. I don't want to end up watching my TV in the poor house. :D

Everytime you speak, you totally contradict yourself. First, you say you bought your TV cuz it had great reviews on Cnet, and from actual customers, but yet, when confronted with GREAT reviews about Monoprice HDMI cables, you scoff at them, and claim them to be inferior.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10120088-1.html?tag=TOCmoreStories.0

There ya go, Cnet clearly states to go with CHEAP HDMI CABLES. I'm just using your own references against you, so don't even try to make excuses about that one.

Then, you say you wont buy a Kuro, cuz you have other bills to pay, but yet, you are perfectly fine with paying for overpriced Monster cables?

I think you may have noticed already, but you have no credibility whatsoever on this forum anymore. Everyone else already has.

Ratman

01-01-09, 05:39 PM

I would guess the "both worlds" wisdom is 28 years of knowing and the next 28 of learning. ;)
http://reviews.cnet.com/hdmi-cable/

Ouch!
Is that a bullet in my foot?

xraffle

01-01-09, 06:02 PM

I would guess the "both worlds" wisdom is 28 years of knowing and the next 28 of learning. ;)
http://reviews.cnet.com/hdmi-cable/

Ouch!
Is that a bullet in my foot?
Taken from your link: "Unless you see something obvious, such as dropouts or a flashing screen..."
That's exactly what I've seen occur on the ones my uncle got from Monoprice. He bought Monster cables and no more dropouts. Perhaps, maybe it's a defective cable? I don't know, but all I know is that I never had those problems with Monster ones.

xraffle

01-01-09, 06:10 PM

Then, you say you wont buy a Kuro, cuz you have other bills to pay, but yet, you are perfectly fine with paying for overpriced Monster cables?
Monster cables aren't that much more. You're looking at Monster.com. That's why they're expensive. Buy them from RadioShack or Best Buy. They're much cheaper and you don't have to pay for shipping. So, actually, you only end up paying a little more for them.

Notice I said, Monster cables are good. But I never said you should pay $100+ for them. If you look hard enough, you can find them for a decent price.

petern

01-02-09, 12:07 AM

Monster cables aren't that much more. You're looking at Monster.com. That's why they're expensive. Buy them from RadioShack or Best Buy. They're much cheaper and you don't have to pay for shipping. So, actually, you only end up paying a little more for them.

Notice I said, Monster cables are good. But I never said you should pay $100+ for them. If you look hard enough, you can find them for a decent price.

If Monster were selling HDMI cables for under $10, I'd consider that a decent price. (Best Buy currently has a 4' Monster Series 600 HDMI on "Sale" for $56, which is rather indecent.)

I sell a branded, excessively-marked up HDMI cable to customers, but personally I use the unbranded 6' HDMI cables that come with the DirecTV HD Satellite Receivers. My cost: $0. I don't think you can get cheaper than that, in price or construction. Rupert Murdoch personally tests them for cheapness. These Horrible cables have NO indication of ever having been tested for 1.3--or any--certification; they have NO gold-plated contacts; they have NO ferrite cores. And, wouldn't you know it, the darn things pass that all-digital 1080p24 video and DolbyTrueHD soundtrack from Blu-Ray player to receiver to TV (the video, not the HD audio, obviously) without problem. YMMV, of course; it is, after all, a 6' cable, and really "pushing the limits" of the HDMI spec.

On a side note, I'm saving up to purchase Monster phone cords and ethernet cables for my DSL modem and router--so websites like this one will display better on my computer. I'm hoping that the colors will be more vivid, the fonts crisper, and the avatars more lifelike than with my current setup.