Tonight is the premiere of season two of my favorite sleeper show of last year, "So You Think You Can Dance." I thought it was great, and if you like AI you'll like this one as well. There are some amazingly talented people out there. Sure, some of them are weird and the interpretive dance stuff wasn't my thing. But performances like Artem's Paso Doble last year were just out of this world. There was a huge debate last season about how this was filmed, and we eventually agreed (I think) that it is in widescreen 480p. No idea on this season but I hope it's at least that again.

-MP

According to everything I've been able to dig up, yes, it will be widescreen SD.

Still the best widescreen 480p on the market today! Oh wait it is the only widescreen 480p reality show right? Can’t wait to see it tonight also. They showed a clip where a guy tries to do a flip or something and he totally smashes his face into the ground. Priceless! The things people will do to get on camera. Like the guy who had done so many head spins all of his hair wore off and he had a callous on his head.

They showed a clip where a guy tries to do a flip or something and he totally smashes his face into the ground. Priceless! The things people will do to get on camera. Like the guy who had done so many head spins all of his hair wore off and he had a callous on his head.

I saw that spot and that would be the only reason I'd watch it. If the whole show was stuff like that I'd be a regular. Bad dancing is way more entertaining than good dancing.

Head callous, that's hilarious.

Season 2? I don't remember a season 1. Sleeper is right.

It was mildly popular season 1. Glad they brought it back again.

My folks were big fans of it last season, maybe I'll give it a go tonight.

Last season, when they had everyone on stage dance (and that weird Russian, I think, blonde chick stare into the camera), all I could think of was Mike Meyers and SPROCKETS! Everyone......DANCE!!!!

Given that my wife and I are ballroom fans we like that it was included, and of course watching people make fools of themselves makes us ALL feel better.

Can't wait.

=NLK=

Last season, when they had everyone on stage dance (and that weird Russian, I think, blonde chick stare into the camera), all I could think of was Mike Meyers and SPROCKETS! Everyone......DANCE!!!!
Each time she was on I said to my wife in a russian accent "touch my monkey. Go ahead, touch him!"

I think the most obnoxious part of this show is he dark haired chick who does nothing just go "whooo-hoooo".

these auditions aren't as good as watching an idol audition.

There aren't enough crazy people and the judges are too bland and nice

I think the most obnoxious part of this show is he dark haired chick who does nothing just go "whooo-hoooo".

The one with the horse teeth? Last year she alternated between being a mean instructor and a screaming idiot. It'll be interesting to see which one shows up this season.

According to everything I've been able to dig up, yes, it will be widescreen SD.

Then it don't belong in this forum, am I not correct.

Wolfie

But it LOOKS HD ;)

What I don't like about it so far (only one episode aired):
1) they replaced Lauren Sanchez with Cat Deeley (who???)
2) so far, if any belly dancers showed up (they had several at last year's New York audition), they were left on the cutting room floor.

Then it don't belong in this forum, am I not correct.
True, but if Fox News Sunday and COPS is any indication, it might be a good idea to leave this thread in the HD forum so we don't get new posts popping up each week asking if this program was in HD.

Which btw...there were many shots of the judges last night that was easy to tell it was not HD.

Lauren Sanchez BETTER be back. The English twit was annoying. Still, some funny moments. The guy doing the face plant for instance. That high school chick was cute. I really didn't need the midgit, the cross dresser, or the realy fat chick who was stripping.

Lauren Sanchez BETTER be back. The English twit was annoying.Lauren Sanchez is very pregnant and still on the local KTTV news. Somehow I don't think that would work for a dance show. The "English Twit" is here for the season.

The SYTYCD studio shows will originate from a HD capable studio, but I'm fairly certain that it will be in SD widescreen. American Idol remains the only broadcast HD reality show at the moment. There is talk that ABC's Dancing With The Stars will share that status in September, but nothing definite yet. CBS's Rock Star was thinking about it, but it's looking doubtful. My opinion is widescreen SD would be better on that show than 4:3. All four shows originate from the same facility.

The significant cost increases for HD shows makes it harder to justify for the summer realities (which American Idol was in season 1). The percentage of HD viewers is still pretty low. I expect that to change dramatically in the next couple years. These are the final days of SD much like the middle 1960s was the end of B&W TV.

Then it don't belong in this forum, am I not correct.

Wolfie

No, you are wrong. That issue was settled long ago.

Widescreen SD does look very good... pity about Lauren Sanchez (well, pity for us and good for her). Still don't like the English twit.

No, you are wrong. That issue was settled long ago.
How and when was that settled? Is this the 16:9 forum?

How and when was that settled? Is this the 16:9 forum?In a sense it is. I would think the only reason this show would use 16:9 is for HD programming. Last I checked, this is the HD Programming forum. Discussing the results of this approach seems relevant.

OK - next year I'm starting this thread:

Survivor - (don't post or read unless you view it upscaled and stretched to 16:9 on an HD display

OK - next year I'm starting this thread:

Survivor - (don't post or read unless you view it upscaled and stretched to 16:9 on an HD displayThe key word is "stretched". Survivor is shot SD 4:3 for a 4:3 display. The HD upconversion is pillared. There is no consideration at all for HD on Survivor ... yet. So You Think You Can Dance is shot in 16:9 specifically for the HD network. There is no stretching needed to make it fill the HD screen. In fact, the SD is a stretched version of the original 16:9 SD. While it's not recorded in HD, the SD format used is for the HD audience.

If Survivor decides to use 16:9 SD, then I think it would be a valid subject for HD discussion.

16:9 does not mean HD. There are lots of things in the universe that are 1.78 aspect ratio, and they're not all HDTV. Hell my toilet tank lid is 2.25:1 (18" x 8") but it's not HDTV either.

What about the plethora of 16:9 commercials shown on 4:3 shows? Those aren't HD either I don't think.

This is silly I know, but let me tell you a little story. About 15 years ago I worked for a high tech company in Redmond WA, and a strip mall store opened up that sold nothing but CD-ROM software. I think it was called Silver Platters. Can you imagine? No floppy disks allowed. Couldn't talk about 'em even.

Maybe we should rename this forum "TV Programming". Let's get real.

16:9 does not mean HD. There are lots of things in the universe that are 1.78 aspect ratio, and they're not all HDTV. Hell my toilet tank lid is 2.25:1 (18" x 8") but it's not HDTV either.

What about the plethora of 16:9 commercials shown on 4:3 shows? Those aren't HD either I don't think.

This is silly I know, but let me tell you a little story. About 15 years ago I worked for a high tech company in Redmond WA, and a strip mall store opened up that sold nothing but CD-ROM software. I think it was called Silver Platters. Can you imagine? No floppy disks allowed. Couldn't talk about 'em even.

Maybe we should rename this forum "TV Programming". Let's get real.16:9 SD is a broadcast standard in Europe, but has never been in the US. Letterboxed 16:9 material shown on 4:3 is either matted for effect or downconverted from a HD master. Either way the SD format is still 4:3.

This forum is here to discuss programming that is made for the HD format. Shows shot in 16:9 SD for US domestic broadcast are done so for one purpose: for upconversion to HD. While it's a compromise in quality, upconversion from 601 can look pretty good and getting better with newer deinterlacing algorithms. HD DVCPRO, HDV and 16mm are also compromises to the best possible technical quality. Even the Spirit 2 datacine does not achieve full 1080 resolution in telecine mode.

Native HD costs were probably out of the question for this show. Fox could just do the show in SD 4:3, but they decided that they would use SD 16:9 for a full screen presentation to the HD audience. When HD costs decrease the 16:9 SD format compromise will become extinct. That's the present reality of HDTV.

As for CD ROMS, floppy discs, strip malls and toilet tanks, you lost me there. :D

The point is, CD-ROMs weren't the point. The program on the CD-ROM was the point.

Is whether or not something is 16:9 all this forum boils down to? Is there a cutoff point of bitrate, resolution, etc. that makes it worthy of discussion, regardless of the program itself?

Just as it's not the CD ROM but rather the program that's on it, the qualifier here is not the original SD 16:9 format but rather it's intent to supply programming that's aimed to the HD audience.

During the period when FOX was only doing 480p widescreen and before they started doing HD, the moderators decided that discussion of those programs should be allowed in this forum, much to the chagrin of many of the purists here.

During the period when FOX was only doing 480p widescreen and before they started doing HD, the moderators decided that discussion of those programs should be allowed in this forum, much to the chagrin of many of the purists here.

This is correct. Further discussion of the issue is pointless, and will be deleted.

CHEERS to FOX for being the only network to have 16X9 reality shows (AFAIK)! It should set the bar for Survivor, Amazing Race et al.

Lauren Sanchez BETTER be back. The English twit was annoying. Still, some funny moments. The guy doing the face plant for instance. That high school chick was cute. I really didn't need the midgit, the cross dresser, or the realy fat chick who was stripping.
That English twit is Nigel Lythgoe who along with Simon Fuller thought up American Idol. AI was based on their already very popular Pop Idol in GB. He is also one of the Executive Producers of SYTYCD, so I think he'll be a judge as long as he wants to. He does know what he's doing though because he was a world champion ballroom dancer in his time.

BTW, that blond girl that had just graduated from high school? She is smoking hot. I hope she sticks around for the competition.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the English twit you were talking about was the new host - Cat Deeley.

Correct. I like Nigel quite a bit. The blonde is annoying ;).

If Lauren is very pregnant, that means she's out for this year. The auditions were clearly months ago so they had to use someone else. Unfortunately, they hired Cat and it looks like we're stuck with her, once they go to the live portion after they're at the final cutdown (10 men, 10 women).

Let's just hope we get to see her dance (like Lauren did on the finale of last year's show). We might have hope.

hey everyone - remember Kamilah? I just saw she's singing now - check her out on iTunes!

hey everyone - remember Kamilah? I just saw she's singing now - check her out on iTunes!

Yeah, she was one fine number !! ;) Good for her.

Anyone see the sweaty stripper girl? That was not attractive at all. Sweaty belly button!!!!!!

Anyways, upconverted 16:9 SD looks very good. HD-Lite you could say.

Anyone see the sweaty stripper girl? That was not attractive at all. Sweaty belly button!!!!!!

Anyways, upconverted 16:9 SD looks very good. HD-Lite you could say.

It was as good as most HD programming on D*. I had a hard time distinguishing it from some of the other HD [/HD-Lite] programming on D*.

Having said that, the sweaty stripper girl also gave quite a show of the silhouette of her CT.. :eek: Her face was good, and she had a decent bod, but it seemed as if she was auditioning for a Vegas burlesque show rather than a national talent show.

The other "ballet dancer" dude was a joke, and it seemed he just wanted to score some points with his gay friends with his antics on stage. :rolleyes:

God, I hate these freaks in the audition stage !!

And, it does seem that we are stuck with the "Woo Hoo !!" lady judge this season too.. :( I wished for the other lady judge from last season (she was soft spoken and kind, but not in a Paula Abdul way).

Still the best widescreen 480p on the market today! Oh wait it is the only widescreen 480p reality show right?

Isn't it 480/60i upconverted to 720/60p? AIUI 480/60p was never a production format - only a Fox broadcast/distribution/transmission format - with material being originated in 480/60i and de-interlaced to 480/60p for transmission.

480/60i and 576/50i are the standard SD 16:9 production formats - and can use SD production gear (in 16:9 mode). This gear doesn't work in 480/60p or 576/50p.

AIUI 480/60p and 576/50p are really limited to progressive outputs from DVD players - now that Fox have shifted to 720p for TX.

Stuff like Fox News Sunday and the 16:9 480 line Fox Sports stuff was/is shot 480/60i - according to the many experts here.

By the way - the US versions of SuperNanny (or is it Nanny 911) - made by Granada US - we get over here are also 16:9 - and I'm assuming they are shown in this format on an outlet in the US?

By the way - for those of you who don't know who Cat Deeley is - she is a really popular TV presenter in the UK - and a very capable live presenter, with a very quick wit, though she does have quite a thick English Midlands accent (unless she's toning it down for the US).

She presented Saturday morning live kids shows - alongside Ant'n'Dec (who present "Pop Idol" and "I'm a Celebrity..." in the UK to widespread acclaim) - and then moved on to present a lot of high profile Saturday night light entertainment shows on ITV in the UK. Nigel Lythgoe will know of her - as he was a longstanding producer with LWT (who make a lot of ITV Saturday Night LE shows!)

I think that just as Vernon Kaye (who has a much thicker North of England accent) moved over to the US to present "Hit Me Baby...", they've decided to try a UK presenter for SYTYCD.

In the UK part of their appeal is their "non-southern-ness" - and their regional accents, that makes them seem more accessible and warmer to the viewer. I don't think this will translate to a US audience in the same way - though Cat is VERY good at live stuff. I've seen shows where she's really shone through when things haven't gone to plan, or where she's been sharp enough to throw in some very witty comments, that are funny, but not cynical or snide. She doesn't do nasty.


I believe Amanda Byram, and Dani Behr - who also did quite a lot of work in the UK (Dani was presenting the BBC saturday morning kids show that went up against Cat, and Amanda worked on a show I worked on for a while) have also presented US reality or entertainment shows?

Isn't it 480/60i upconverted to 720/60p? AIUI 480/60p was never a production format - only a Fox broadcast/distribution/transmission format - with material being originated in 480/60i and de-interlaced to 480/60p for transmission. That's correct.
In the UK part of their appeal is their "non-southern-ness" - and their regional accents, that makes them seem more accessible and warmer to the viewer. Same thing is the US :D NASCAR is an exception.

I recorded a bunch to DVR, but haven't watched. Really, all I want to see is the guy going head first into the floor. Has that been on yet?

this show has kept me entertained, but like american idol, i'll probably be done with the show once auditions are over.

during the first show a guy face planted. the preview for next week shows another guy land on his head too. :D

Its not HD. The thread doesnt belong in this forum.

Apparently you didn't bother to READ this thread Vurbano or you'd know it does.

Isn't it 480/60i upconverted to 720/60p? AIUI 480/60p was never a production format - only a Fox broadcast/distribution/transmission format - with material being originated in 480/60i and de-interlaced to 480/60p for transmission.


Are you sure that some of the shots are not in true 480p widescreen? Some of the street shots show deinterlacing artifacts and you can tell that it is just up converted 480i. However, most of the actual tryouts shots show absolutely no deinterlacing artifacts. They appear to be from a true progressive camera. If that show is just up converted 480i then why the heck do Survivor, Amazing Race, etc….. look so bad?

I don't know of any production equipment capable of 480P. Last year the shows were mastered on DigiBeta in 480/60i. I agree that the deinterlacing and upconversion looks very good.

The studio shows will use HD cameras in 16:9 480i mode. Most of the cameras are the same model used for American Idol.

WTF? Is this the "So You Think You Can Dance?" thread or is it the "So You Think It's Really HD or Not?" thread? ;)

WTF? Is this the "So You Think You Can Dance?" thread or is it the "So You Think It's Really HD or Not?" thread? ;)Perhaps a little of both. As the show progresses I'm sure our attention will focus more on technique and agility - T&A for short.

Are you sure that some of the shots are not in true 480p widescreen? Some of the street shots show deinterlacing artifacts and you can tell that it is just up converted 480i. However, most of the actual tryouts shots show absolutely no deinterlacing artifacts. They appear to be from a true progressive camera. If that show is just up converted 480i then why the heck do Survivor, Amazing Race, etc….. look so bad?

I'd be VERY surprised. 480/60i is standard def 16:9 - it uses standard def editing and distribution gear - and so is cheaper than HD.

There is no real 480/60p production equipment out there - never really has been. There ARE some bits of HD kit that will run 480/60p if you REALLY want to - but they are HD bits of kit - so if you are using them then there is no reason not to run 720/60p or 1080/60i - the cost incentive for staying SD has gone.

I suspect that the studio cameras are HD models down-converting, whereas the location video is SD native, the difference in quality is significant - HD studio cameras, even when operating in SD compatible mode, deliver stunning pictures.

Similarly I expect the tryouts are a mix of minDV or HDV Camcorders running in SD miniDV mode, mixed with higher quality DigiBeta (or high-end DVCam) units - with similar quality differences.

I would be VERY surprised to find anyone shooting 480/60p - it is purely an interim distribution/broadcast format. The major benefit was that broadcast quality de-interlacers were better performers than those in domestic displays.

Are you sure that some of the shots are not in true 480p widescreen?Yes, 100%.

If that show is just up converted 480i then why the heck do Survivor, Amazing Race, etc….. look so bad?Because this is 601 digital, and they are analog.

Because this is 601 digital, and they are analog.

I assume this is because Amazing Race etc. are 4:3 SD and thus distributed via the analogue composite network feeds, and upconverted locally at each station, rather than being upconverted by the network? Or is it that network control deriving the 4:3 SD feeds (I assume there is still a 4:3 analogue Master Control - and that HD 16:9 isn't the master yet, with just a downconvert feeding the SD network feeds?)

I would be VERY surprised (nay - flabbergasted) if Amazing Race, Survivor etc. had any major analogue production elements (apart possibly from Triax cameras for multicam sequences - which are also used in HD productions anyway!) - and certainly no composite analogue.

I guess SYTYCD is treated as HD - as it is a 16:9 upconvert to HD - and thus distributed digital component via the HD Network feed?

(In the UK - although we don't have HD - all of our network master controls are now 16:9 SD component 601 - the 4:3 analogue networks are derived from the digital feeds rather than vice versa, so all shows shot component digital are broadcast component digital - though very few shows are 4:3 anyway...)

I assume this is because Amazing Race etc. are 4:3 SD and thus distributed via the analogue composite network feeds, and upconverted locally at each station, rather than being upconverted by the network?Yes.


I guess SYTYCD is treated as HD - as it is a 16:9 upconvert to HD - and thus distributed digital component via the HD Network feed?Yes.

I assume this is because Amazing Race etc. are 4:3 SD and thus distributed via the analogue composite network feeds, and upconverted locally at each station, rather than being upconverted by the network?CBS does not use analog for distribution of their SD network feeds. Their SD net feeds are sent component via DC2. However, their SD network playout comes from composite D2 which is fed through analog control rooms. Their HD network upconverted SD is derived from the output of the analog control rooms. When they switch to upconverted SD commercials during a HD show, the bug pops from the lower right to safe 4:3 during the black in between.

In the UK - although we don't have HD - all of our network master controls are now 16:9 SD component 601 - the 4:3 analogue networks are derived from the digital feeds rather than vice versa, so all shows shot component digital are broadcast component digital - though very few shows are 4:3 anyway...Most US OTA networks did not upgrade their network control rooms to 601 because HD was on the horizon. Digital network distribution occurred because of the savings in satellite transponder space. Fox and PBS seem to be the only US OTA networks using SD 16:9 as a production standard.

I guess SYTYCD is treated as HD - as it is a 16:9 upconvert to HD - and thus distributed digital component via the HD Network feed?So You Think You Can Dance is component digital all the way through to the HD upconverter, although I have noticed a few outdoor shots that had composite artifacts. My guess is that they were from DV which was copied through a composite path. Some of Fox sports are widescreen analog feeds, and the difference compared to an all component path is quite noticeable.

CBS does not use analog for distribution of their SD network feeds. Their SD net feeds are sent component via DC2. However, their SD network playout comes from composite D2 which is fed through analog control rooms. Their HD network upconverted SD is derived from the output of the analog control rooms. When they switch to upconverted SD commercials during a HD show, the bug pops from the lower right to safe 4:3 during the black in between.


Interesting.

In the UK the BBC have been using digital composite distribution for our composite OTA analogue network feeds (140Mbs uncompressed) for a loooong time (it still has sound in syncs to distribute NICAM companded digital audio - this must date back to the 80s or early 90s) - but the path into these digital feeds, and out of them at the regional centres, is still analogue PAL composite.

However there are no composite control rooms (or presentation areas as they are known this side of the pond) left at any mainstream broadcaster - so any analogue network feed is derived from a component digital 601 area (via automatically switched ARCs if the digital area is 16:9 601)



Most US OTA networks did not upgrade their network control rooms to 601 because HD was on the horizon. Digital network distribution occurred because of the savings in satellite transponder space. Fox and PBS seem to be the only US OTA networks using SD 16:9 as a production standard.



I think that the Beeb (and thus the rest of the UK - if not Europe) had started digitising their production areas earlier than the in the US - and as part of this 16:9 production became a no-brainer (The first generation of broadcast quality CCD cameras were installed in composite analogue studios and OB trucks in the late 80s/early 90s, but by the early/mid 90s it was time to re-equip - and 601 digital installs with 16:9/4:3 switchable cameras were the logical choice for mainstream broadcasters like the BBC etc.)

By this point some broadcasters were beginning to demand component rather than composite delivered material - Channel Four in the UK moved to D5 digital component uncompressed delivery in the early 90s - when they started distributing 34Mbs component (rather than composite) to their composite transmitters and wanted to avoid code/decode processes.

Digital production had kind of become a given at this point.

However it was also very clear that Europe wasn't going to be going HD any time soon (our production budgets weren't big enough to have been able to cope with HD costs at bleeding edge 1998 levels)

Interesting that D2 is still in use in the US. In the UK DigiBeta is the effective universal delivery format for 4:3 and 16:9 SD shows - so no composite footprint there. However the BBC only recenlty relaxed their 4:3 delivery rules (for years the BBC were D3 composite for 4:3 and DigiBeta for 16:9 - but this was seldom a major issue since the Beeb made so little in 4:3)


So You Think You Can Dance is component digital all the way through to the HD upconverter, although I have noticed a few outdoor shots that had composite artifacts. My guess is that they were from DV which was copied through a composite path. Some of Fox sports are widescreen analog feeds, and the difference compared to an all component path is quite noticeable.

Yep - composite footprints do stick out. In the UK they are now mainly limited to radio links and the odd ENG microwave truck (many SNGs are now component - and take the SDI output from camcorders down a fibre rather than a composite output) There were a few 16:9 PAL galleries in use for a while (in Australia also) in the UK - particularly in regional centres - and occasionally you'll still see a live outside broadcast brought back using a PAL circuit (they can be more reliable...) - and there is one studio centre in central London (BBC Westminster) that whilst it is component digital internally, only has composite digital (140Mbs I think) circuits in and out - so picturs that have been through this area are "mangled".

D2 is not really used as a production format in the US, and hasn't been for a long time. I know that CBS wanted a digital playout system early on and Digibeta didn't exist yet. Maybe that was a good thing since the D2 transports were much better. The D2 system worked so well that they expected it to stay in place until SD was phased out. Maybe they expected that to happen at an earlier point, but I've heard that they are in the middle of a huge transmission facility upgrade so the D2 days might be coming to an end soon.

Digibeta has been the production SD format of choice in the US nearly since it's introduction in the mid 90s. Almost all of the prime time evening shows on the major US OTA networks are HD, so now it's D5 and HDCAM SR. Fox has put a priority on the 16:9 format, perhaps because of Murdoch's dealings in Europe. This show on any other US commercial network would have most likely been in 4:3. HD XDCAM might change the way reality shows like Survivor are done now.

As Europe has been digital 16:9 for some time, I'm wondering if the consumer there will see much advantage with HD. US consumers get the wider screen along with sharper images with the HD upgrade. The only way the OTA viewer here can see SD 16:9 is via upconversion.

For what it's worth PAL composite digital is 177Mb (4.43 x 4 x 10).

D2 is not really used as a production format in the US, and hasn't been for a long time. I know that CBS wanted a digital playout system early on and Digibeta didn't exist yet. Maybe that was a good thing since the D2 transports were much better. The D2 system worked so well that they expected it to stay in place until SD was phased out. Maybe they expected that to happen at an earlier point, but I've heard that they are in the middle of a huge transmission facility upgrade so the D2 days might be coming to an end soon.


Yep - D2 was used quite significantly in the UK as a way of automating commercial TV stations - as they needed a reliable advert playout system prior to DigiBeta and Servers - to replace the old ACR 25s (2" Quad Cart based machines ISTR) that were still running well into the late 80s.

Sounds like the situation is roughly the same - used as a transmission (possibly delivery format) but not a production format.

1" production in the BBC was migrated to D3 1/2" Digital composite around the time of the Barcelona Olympics (which were D3) Similarly other companies moved to Beta SP (not quite broadcast quality in the eyes of some broadcasters).

Digi Beta and D5 became the defacto delivery formats by the mid 90s - with DigiBeta (and to a much lesser degree D3 in the BBC) the production formats (though Beta SP was a widespread shooting format for camcorders until 16:9 really hit. There wasn't much DigiBeta 4:3 stuff)



As Europe has been digital 16:9 for some time, I'm wondering if the consumer there will see much advantage with HD. US consumers get the wider screen along with sharper images with the HD upgrade. The only way the OTA viewer here can see SD 16:9 is via upconversion.



Yep - the main advantage of HD over SD 16:9 at the moment on small displays seems to be the massive reduction in compression artefacts. On larger screens the quality improvement is obvious though (but the BBC are broadcasting their H264 MPEG4 at 19Mbs on Satellite and OTA - and that is 1440x1088 not 1920...)



For what it's worth PAL composite digital is 177Mb (4.43 x 4 x 10).

The Beeb run their "analogue" network digital distribution at 8 bits rather than 10 I think... It was introduced in the 80s before digital recording was widespread.

The Beeb run their "analogue" network digital distribution at 8 bits rather than 10 I think... It was introduced in the 80s before digital recording was widespread.Interesting - that would put it into the 140Mb range. 8 bit was the norm in those days. Thanks for the correction. Did they use the B format for that?

I was watching some upconverted SD widescreen on PBS yesterday. Although not as sharp as HD, I was thinking how much less effective it would have been in 4:3. Widescreen SD is a temporary solution, but in a couple years it'll hopefully be a moot point.

...If Survivor decides to use 16:9 SD, then I think it would be a valid subject for HD discussion.Yeah, and THAT makes a lot of sense. What part of "SD" don't you understand? The part that stands for STANDARD and not HIGH?!

Interesting - that would put it into the 140Mb range. 8 bit was the norm in those days. Thanks for the correction. Did they use the B format for that?

I was watching some upconverted SD widescreen on PBS yesterday. Although not as sharp as HD, I was thinking how much less effective it would have been in 4:3. Widescreen SD is a temporary solution, but in a couple years it'll hopefully be a moot point.

If you are asking about VT formats - then the BBC were pretty universally 1" C format - B format was more popular in mainland Europe I believe.

Not sure what you mean by B format if you are talking about something else.

The 140Mbs digital PAL circuits are (AIUI) never exposed as digital links externally - you feed analogue PAL with SIS (Sound In Syncs) into the link, and it delivers analogue PAL with SIS on the outputs. The major problem these days is that SIS encoding and decoding gear is not commercially available in the BBC format... (Quite a significant problem if you add more regional centres as the Beeb have of late)

The clever bit about SIS in distribution terms is that it uses an identical data structure to NICAM 728 - the digital stereo audio system that accompanies our analogue PAL OTA broadcasts (introduced in the late 80s) - so transmitters can just de-embed the SIS, re-packet it and modulate the NICAM 728 carrier with it, and only need to decode the audio to mono analogue audio for the analogue FM carrier. They don't need to decode the SIS to baseband audio and then recode it in NICAM - so there is a cost and quality saving.

If you are asking about VT formats - then the BBC were pretty universally 1" C format - B format was more popular in mainland Europe I believe.That was the format I was referring to. It also didn't get much use in the US. The one thing I remember about it was that the tape intended for use on B format machines had the oxide on the outside instead of the inside. A blank reel looked the same if you didn't check the tape itself. Using that tape on a C format machine would result in no recording.

The 140Mbs digital PAL circuits are (AIUI) never exposed as digital links externally - you feed analogue PAL with SIS (Sound In Syncs) into the link, and it delivers analogue PAL with SIS on the outputs. Aside from the embedded audio I/O, it sounds like the internal codecs that the telco companies use such as the composite 45 Mb.

Anyway, we should probably not drift too far off topic. We might get a bit of leeway with today being 6-6-06, and we all know that digital is the work of the devil. ;)

Yeah, and THAT makes a lot of sense. What part of "SD" don't you understand? The part that stands for STANDARD and not HIGH?!I dunno. What part?

That was the format I was referring to. It also didn't get much use in the US. The one thing I remember about it was that the tape intended for use on B format machines had the oxide on the outside instead of the inside. A blank reel looked the same if you didn't check the tape itself. Using that tape on a C format machine would result in no recording.

Aside from the embedded audio I/O, it sounds like the internal codecs that the telco companies use such as the composite 45 Mb.

Anyway, we should probably not drift too far off topic. We might get a bit of leeway with today being 6-6-06, and we all know that digital is the work of the devil. ;)

Yep - way off topic. Apologies all.

(I think one reason B format wasn't popular was that it segmented the video across multiple tracks - a bit like Quad, but unlike Quad I think it needed frame stores as part of the replay process - which was quite cutting edge in the late 70s?)

Next week will start the studio competition shows. Wenesday's show will be 2 hours long, and Thursday's result show is 1 hour. Unlike last year, the results shows look like they will be live.

Too bad Claire Calloway couldn't continue. The cameras liked her a lot and she could really dance!

WHat is the name of the song that the Black Breakdancer dance to for his dance to stay in?????
Please help

Too bad Claire Calloway couldn't continue. The cameras liked her a lot and she could really dance!
Yeah, I was looking forward to seeing a lot more of her. Nice offer from Nigel though. I hope she takes him up on it.

Is Cincinnati the only market w/o HD SYTYCD?

Is Cincinnati the only market w/o HD SYTYCD?
Nope, all markets are w/o HD.

This show is widescreen SD.

We actually have pillarboxed SD in Cincinnati. This also seems different than normal FOX feeds because the FOX logo is not in the bottom right corner of the 16:9 space where it is for Simpsons.

Can someone explain to me why when I capture video clips from my Comcast DVR and open them up in Mpeg Video Wizard, MVW says it is 1280 x 720 (16/9) at 59.94 frames per second? That's HD.

Now perhaps Comcast is upconverting a 16:9 SD feed, but the video looks every bit as good and even better than many of the HD captures I made of the Olympics this spring (which I know had all kinds of converting were going on).

Am I the only one who thinks it's just as good as much of the watered-down HD we're getting these days?

We actually have pillarboxed SD in Cincinnati. This also seems different than normal FOX feeds because the FOX logo is not in the bottom right corner of the 16:9 space where it is for Simpsons.
It was a local issue then.

Can someone explain to me why when I capture video clips from my Comcast DVR and open them up in Mpeg Video Wizard, MVW says it is 1280 x 720 (16/9) at 59.94 frames per second? That's HD.

Now perhaps Comcast is upconverting a 16:9 SD feed, but the video looks every bit as good and even better than many of the HD captures I made of the Olympics this spring (which I know had all kinds of converting were going on).

Am I the only one who thinks it's just as good as much of the watered-down HD we're getting these days?Although this show is shot in widescreen SD, the studio is HD capable. The HD cameras do the downconversion to SD internally. HD cameras are able to make better fine detail in SD than native SD cameras can. The quality of this SD is much higher than is transmitted to the home in SD mode, and much higher than DVD. One might wonder why the show isn't just shot in HD if it's in a HD studio, but there are other HD costs that would be impractical for a summer show. American Idol is the only HD reality show, and being the #1 show makes HD practical.

The taped shows are upconverted to HD from digital component video at Fox, and then sent on the Fox HD network. Detail that would normally be lost through SD transmission is preserved on the HD network. The widescreen SD is "stretched" horizontally to 4:3 for the Fox SD network.

While we all would like everything to be HD, the choices on this show were probably 4:3 SD or 16:9 SD. I think most here would choose the latter, especially when the PQ is better than one would expect from SD.

This image captured OTA from last night's show is a bit blurred because it was a handheld shot, but it does have an interesting element:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/420/sytycdstudio36crop1cc21rh.jpg

Studio 36 is the same studio used for American Idol. No big surprise since it's produced by the same people.

Too bad Claire Calloway couldn't continue. The cameras liked her a lot and she could really dance!

Yeah. She's hawt. Nice how Nigel completely coddled her and the chick that faked a panic attack, yet when the Hawaiian guy nearly paralyzed himself by landing on his head they all just sat there. :confused: I guess it really pays to have boobies on this show.

Yeah. She's hawt. Nice how Nigel completely coddled her and the chick that faked a panic attack, yet when the Hawaiian guy nearly paralyzed himself by landing on his head they all just sat there. :confused: I guess it really pays to have boobies on this show.Are you suggesting the Hawiian guy get some implants? :p

Just to get this thread back on the subject of the show itself and the contestants, at the very end when they showcased short clips of the final 20 I was very impressed. It looked like they had ended up with kids who had genuine professional dancing potential.

Now I'm sure they could have gone exactly the opposite way, and found clips of those very same 20 which showed them as screw-ups and buffoons if they'd wanted to do that instead. But the fact is they were able to present them all as very good dancers, meaning there were at least some moments of real talent to isolate.

I didn't watch the show last year, but am pretty intrigued so far this year.

I wonder if the second series of "So You Think You Can Dance" will be like the second series of the nearest UK equivalent, the BBC's "Strictly Dance Fever". (It is produced by the same team who produce "Strictly Come Dancing" which is also produced by the BBC for ABC as "Dancing with the Stars" - but rather than being celebrity driven it is more "real people" based, and includes wider dance genres.)

The first series was a bit of an unknown concept for the people applying - and so they got quite a mix of talent even in the final. The second series contestants had all watched the first series - and I think the quality of the finalists in the second series was higher as a result - as serious amateur dancers REALLY went for it. The final show had three very good couples in it.

Is the US series couple or solo based? In the UK it is couples - though the couples are paired up as part of the selection process - so solo dancers can enter and be paired up during the show. (Or couples can be split by one qualifying and the other not)

I know Fox is trying to fill time during the summer, but does this show really need a results show? I like the format last year.

Yeah, kind of mad they didn't do the session workouts with the correogrophers like last year with the larger group.

I know Fox is trying to fill time during the summer, but does this show really need a results show? I like the format last year.

I suspect they are following the UK model (though we don't have timezone issues). Every show of this style "Strictly Come Dancing" aka "Dancing with the Stars", "Strictly Dance Fever" anka "So You Think You Can Dance", "Pop Idol" aka "American Idol", "Popstars", "Popstars : The Rivals" etc. have always had a Saturday early evening competition show - with judges comments etc. and then an hour or two for phone voting, followed by a shorter results show later in the evening.

If the performance show rates well, and the public have invested time and effort in voting for the characters in the show, a results show can rate well, and provide a pay-off, rather than having to wait until the following week for a result, as was the case with talent shows in the 70s and 80s in the UK. (Where votes were cast by post...)

Lately the results shows on these reality shows have had a performance by professional talent. Maybe they could get Janet Jackson - on second thought don't want a wardrobe malfunction with this FCC.

Lately the results shows on these reality shows have had a performance by professional talent. Maybe they could get Janet Jackson - on second thought don't want a wardrobe malfunction with this FCC.

Yep - that is a common element on the UK ones as well.

Results show normally goes :

Reminder of competitors and their phone number/SMS code, professional performance, or group performance, then either an elimination, or the public "save" all but two who then either have to dance off for the judges to have the final say, or there can sometimes be a second phone/SMS vote with the lines re-opened...

(The BBC don't make profit from their voting/texting - though sometimes they use it as a way of raising money for a charity like Sport Relief, Comic Relief or Children in Need. ITV and C4 are more likely to use it to help fund their programme...)

Yeah, kind of mad they didn't do the session workouts with the correogrophers like last year with the larger group.

That was cool portion of last years show. You had a chance to get to know the dancers more. Now you just have a typical dancer audition and it was not as entertaining.

The show was not widescreen last night (at least on Fox NY thru D*). Was this a local issue or nationwide. thx.

It was wide screen with great PQ KCVU in Chico Ca Ota.

It was widescreen on Bright House HD cable in Orlando, FL.

-- Martin

4:3 here in Central Jersey on Comcast.

Great qualit here too. The blonde ballerina is HOT.

One thing that is great about this show is you really can see the foot work in widescreen. One thing I hate about dancing on tv is the director never shows all of the screen.

Must have been a Fox NY problem. thx

Lack of HD on Fox 5 NY (WNYW) should be resolved tonight. The problem was local to the station, and Fox Network worked immediately to resolve the problem. Tonight's show will be live.

WNYW-DT is back to 720p. The problem last night had the video in 480i 480x480.
I wonder why this show in 16:9 SD wide screen looks so much better then the MLB games? Is it cause all the cams are HD? Could FOX be using 16:9 SD cams for MLB?

I wonder why this show in 16:9 SD wide screen looks so much better then the MLB games?

The biggest reason is that this show is being sourced from COMPONENT video. The MLB games are being upconverted (in every game I've seen), from composite video. That doesn't upconvert well.

This weeks shows were in HD. Did anybody notice that?

Nope, not HD. Just a very good component widescreen upconvert.

The biggest reason is that this show is being sourced from COMPONENT video. The MLB games are being upconverted (in every game I've seen), from composite video. That doesn't upconvert well.

Composite? Yuck... Is that a distribution thing - or a backhaul thing? Composite is effectively dead and buried outside very small regional installations - and the odd legacy news link (there are still the odd co-ax cables buried around London that are used by News) - though even many SNGs are now SDI + fibre from camera to uplink truck - and component MPEG2 encoded.

Composite? Yuck... Is that a distribution thing - or a backhaul thing?

I don't know for sure -- I would guess that it is coming into the FOX TOC in that format -- I doubt if they had a component feed that they would convert it to composite. The distribution to affiliates is done over the same 720p upconvert path as other non-HD programming.

I do find it kind of odd. In 2006, I would think there would be very few "composite only" trucks, but I don't travel in those circles. Is there a cost difference between sending composite vs. component over fiber? If so, that might help explain things ...

There are significant cost differences between composite TV1 and 270 Mb fiber connections, sometimes it's twice as much. Funny thing is that the only difference is a flip of a switch on the Artel boxes. Transmission seems to be easiest place for shows to cut costs.

I believe this show is using 270 Mb lines from the studio facility to Fox TOC, so the 601 is delivered uncompressed.

Are the 270 lines in Europe higher than composite? If so, how do the bean counters justify it there?

There are significant cost differences between composite TV1 and 270 Mb fiber connections, sometimes it's twice as much.

Thanks for the info. I figured if they were using composite for the MLB games, there must be a good reason. "$$$" is usually the deciding factor ... if only more people WATCHED these games, things might be different ...

Ok so which guy was kicked off? My Tivo ended right after they told the first guy to go to the stairs. Was it Ivan?

Was it Ivan?
No, they booted Stanislav.

Not quite sure why though as my DVR ended too, but I was watching almost live, so I still flipped to Fox and caught them eliminating Stanislav, but I missed what they said to him.

There are significant cost differences between composite TV1 and 270 Mb fiber connections, sometimes it's twice as much. Funny thing is that the only difference is a flip of a switch on the Artel boxes. Transmission seems to be easiest place for shows to cut costs.

I believe this show is using 270 Mb lines from the studio facility to Fox TOC, so the 601 is delivered uncompressed.

Are the 270 lines in Europe higher than composite? If so, how do the bean counters justify it there?

The BBC makes most of its studio shows in London, where it is also based for network control, so most of the connectivity is internal, over high speed fibre that carries multiple 270Mbs circuits. The main BBC TV Centre (which contains 15 studios - including Europe's largest) is only a couple of hundred yards from the BBC Broadcast Centre (where Red Bee - once BBC Broadcast) playout centre is based.

For contributions from the wider BBC there is an ATM fibre based system in use, using fibre leased from Energis. This used to be entirely composite 140Mbs circuits - but is now a mix of 140Mbs for the composite network distribution (and some legacy circuits) and 34Mbs component digital compressed material, which is also the data rate used for microwave and satellite contributions. (34Mbs chosen as it allows 4 circuits to be carried in the same space as 140Mbs I believe) The digital networks are distributed in 2 forms.

Digital Network feeds that are de-compressed and re-compressed regionally are distributed as 9Mbs Long GOP MPEG2 (though this is soon to replaced by 270Mbs) for subsequent re-encoding at 3-5Mbs for broadcast. Networks that are encoded centrally are statmuxed and distributed as a full multiplex of 18Mbs - containing multiple network feeds.

The Beeb is in the process of upgrading its lines infrastructure to include a large number of 270Mbs circuits internally around its regional centres, via fibre. This will see the 34Mbs ETSI circuits and the 9Mbs distribution rate MPEG2 Long GOP stuff retired I believe.

I believe both 34Mbs and 270Mbs fibre connectivity can be purchased via British Telecom, the main UK permanent vision circuit provider. (Most broadcasters have local ends to a BT exchange that can be routed to other destinations via BT)

Composite circuits would not be used for programme distribution these days unless there was absolutely no option (at least one BBC building is still entirely 140Mbs composite in and out for "resilience" rasons) - 34Mbs component compressed would be chosen over 140Mbs composite, as the composite footprint is deemed to add worse artefacts than compression.

The main UK networks have a "no composite" rule - you have to request a special dispensation to be able to use composite gear as part of the tech delivery specs. This is partially because composite artefacts significantly reduce the efficiency of MPEG2 compression - and reduce picture quality heavily. If they wanted to allow composite to be used, they'd need to spend more on broadcast bandwith - which the beancounters would hate!

Nope, not HD. Just a very good component widescreen upconvert.
Anyone know why this show isn't in HD? American Idol was in HD and produced by the same person, Nigel. Any thoughts?

Nope, not HD. Just a very good component widescreen upconvert.
Anyone know why this show isn't in HD? American Idol was in HD and produced by the same person, Nigel. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Anyone know why this show isn't in HD? American Idol was in HD and produced by the same person, Nigel. Any thoughts?

The main suggestion is production budget. Making a show in SD in an HD studio is still cheaper than making it in HD.

Stuff like post production, location shooting, live circuits for transmission are all still more expensive in HD.

The show appears to be a 19 production (the same people behind Pop Idol/American Idol) - which is a Simon Fuller (Mr Spice Girls, Mr S Club 7) production company, with Nigel Lythgoe also Exec-ing and directing I believe? (Not sure how he directs AND appears on camera?) Simon Fuller is a VERY shrewd financial operator...

I am watching this program on my local Fox OTA HD channel, and am having a hard time telling the difference in quality of this up-convert program from any of the regular HD programming on D* (like HBO-HD or Discovery-HD or even HD-Net). Admittedly, I am watching this show on a 30" Sony XBR910, so the smaller screen size might be hiding some of the flaws, but could somebody with a bigger display tell me how this compares to other OTA HD programming?

On a related note, I think this show has the potential to be a worthy follow-up act to American Idol during the off-season. I am really enjoying it, and have even got used to the "Woo hoo !!" girl and Cat Deely. In fact, Cat has become more acceptable over the last few weeks. :)

The blonde dancer is just freaking hot... I loved it when Nigel made his "Thing of beauty" speach. I think the middle judge last night (forget her name, the one in the flowered mumu... Mia?) has it in for any female dancer that is remotely good looking. If you were a gay man doing her fruity contemporary and fell flat on your face three times she would still tell you what a beautiful soul you have, etc; If you're a chick and dance your ass off she hated it, it had no feeling, and you suck ;). Good to see the "5 Step Crew" though it sucked that poor Hawk still couldn't perform with them on stage. I assume it has to do with the visa restrictions? Cat kept asking him if he was coming back next year and you could just see his face... "shut up you stupid lady, I can't compete unless your government says I can!"

Actually Mia Michaels was a very soft judge last season, and I felt she was inconsistent in her analysis last night. The blonde girl (who did the Samba with Dimitri) was great to look at, but her dancing clearly not even close to authentic Samba, just as the second to last hip-hop dancer girl was not even close to authentic hip-hop. I was clearly confused how all three judges were floored by Musa and his girl's contemporary piece, where Musa looked stiff as a wood and looked clearly out of his element. But boy, when he breaks he is great to look at !!

Yeah... it's hard because some of the pairings are ridiculous (the guy with the silly long hair for instance) and some of the dance choices are odd (I never knew "pop" was a dance style, and I've certainly never seen anyone dance to pop music like that). I like Benjy and his partner. Lots of energy, they dance great, and they have fun.

I just watched last weeks shows. Is it me or was Rhiana lipsynching her song last week?

It would only be lip syncing if the lips were anywhere close to being in sync ;)

I just watched last weeks shows. Is it me or was Rhiana lipsynching her song last week?
Yes she was

Should have learned my lesson about this show runing over. Tivo missed who got booted. Was it Ben? thx

Should have learned my lesson about this show runing over. Tivo missed who got booted. Was it Ben? thx
Yes it was. I think after tonight the people will have their solo planned.

Yes it was. I think after tonight the people will have their solo planned.

Nigel really let the two of them have it. Ben deserved to go since it was his bad performance that got the two in the bottom three.

Dimitry is now on his third partner, Ashlee. She was clearly better than Ben was. Should be a major improvement and keep Dimitry out of the bottom three. (I got a gut feeling that the judges think that Dimitry is the best of the male dancers, but has been saddled with (what the judges believe are) mediocre female dancers).

this is always 4:3 for me, never 16:9 widescreen..

this is always 4:3 for me, never 16:9 widescreen..Are you watching from Fox 5 WNYW?

Man, Cat was having a see-thru moment to start the show... she eventually pulle her hair over her boobs to cover ;).

I hope they go to 1 hour next week. The first 45 minutes was painful to watch.

I hope they go to 1 hour next week. The first 45 minutes was painful to watch.
Yeah I totally agree, didn't need to see that all over again, what a waste of air time. But then again Fox doesn't really have anything else to show right now, so I guess they have to stretch it to 2 hours. Thank goodness for fast forward. :D

They really need a new host next year. Every week she becomes more and more annoying. And some one tell her to put clothes on. Sheesh

They really need a new host next year. Every week she becomes more and more annoying. And some one tell her to put clothes on. Sheesh

As crazy as this might sound, considering the shows of this type and seeing other hosts, Ryan Seacrest actually does a pretty good job on American Idol.

Hosting a show like this isn't as easy as it looks.

Cat is better than the woman from last year though. I couldn't even look at that one because of all the horrible work she had done to her face.

Who do ya'll think will be voted off? I'd say Jesserca (per Cat) and either Jamez or Musa. My 3rd pick is Ivan, but the judges are starting to have a puppy love for him.

Man, Cat was having a see-thru moment to start the show... she eventually pulle her hair over her boobs to cover ;).

Lol, guess I wasn't the only one to notice!

I guess the network guys did too, cause the whole second half of the show she either had her arms or her hairs covering herself up. Which was too bad, cause she looked hot without a bra.

Even the camera started to just shoot her from the neck up. :D Too funny. Unfortunately my wife hit "delete this program now" on the tivo when it was all over, so I couldn't go back and use the slo motion feature. :D

Howabout Jessica?! That chick is smokin hot!

I think both Dimitri and his partner should be gone tonight. Jamez and his partner would be my second choice. Dimitri just doesnt' have the range as the othe males left.

Well, it's official...

Jessica and Jamez have been cut. Their pathetic attempt at hip-hop (the last perfomance on Wednesday's show) was their undoing. Since they were partners, no rearranging of couples is needed for next week's show.

Dimitry is now on his third partner, Ashlee.
The system the judges are using of voting off the guy if his female partner sucks (but keeping the female) will likely keep him there. Ashlee has no formal training is at best adequate in all but her specialty - she will let Dimitri down soon and then the judges will blame Dimitri.

Unless there is just a lot that we the viewers just don't see, the decisions the judges are making just don't make a lot of sense when it comes the guys they are eliminating.

It has been hard to go wrong with the elimination of the women as almost every woman in the bottom three has been terrible.

Are you watching from Fox 5 WNYW?
yes

Well, it's official...

Jessica and Jamez have been cut. Their pathetic attempt at hip-hop (the last perfomance on Wednesday's show) was their undoing. Since they were partners, no rearranging of couples is needed for next week's show.


Why'd you post that as a spoiler?

You posted well after it aired, even on the West Coast.

Why'd you post that as a spoiler?.
\

Tivo. It's redefined spoiler rules.

oh yeah to edit my previous post. Jessica isn't the hot one. Allison witht the curly hair has the smoking body. Actually quite a few girls on that show have amazing bodies. I wish more curvy and fit women like that were role models for women in society than these starved models with breast implants.

You wanna talk bodies, let's talk about Heidi -- damn! Too bad she's got a butter face...

You wanna talk bodies, let's talk about Heidi -- damn! Too bad she's got a butter face...

yep. Ruins it for me. She can move too.

All around sexiest I've gotta go with Natalie. there's a nice video of her in that sexy outfit on this site

http://www.sytycd.com/

Cute face, sexy body, she seems a little wild. If she gets voted off, my wife is gonna be watchin this show alone.

\Tivo. It's redefined spoiler rules.Sheesh, what are the TIVO spoiler rules? 1 day, 1 week, 1 season?

I think the easy spoiler rule is: Don't read the show's threads between the time it first airs in the east and the time you watch it.

The Pussycat Dolls were smokin hot on the show tonight. Not only that but that lead girl can really sing.

As far as the show goes, I thought they were going to get rid of the Russian primadonna tonight but they wimped out and cut Musa instead.

Sounds like the pussycat dolls were lip syncing...sounded too studio like for live.

Sounds like the pussycat dolls were lip syncing...sounded too studio like for live.

This kind of group should only lip sync. I can't believe they kept Dimitri. The guy can not dance beyond his own style.

Sounds like the pussycat dolls were lip syncing...sounded too studio like for live.
Whats up with all of these groups lip syncing on this show?

Whats up with all of these groups lip syncing on this show?


This is not American Idol. They are coming on to promote their songs not look bad on live tv.

I don't recall if this was mentioned last night. Are they still going to vote off one male and one female each week or are they only doing the 1 person with the least amount of votes?

Going forward the audience voting will solely determine who leaves the show. I think they said it's the person with the lowest vote total, so yes, I think it's one a week gone starting next week.

They said one boy and one girl. The lowest vote getter of each gender.

Sounds like the pussycat dolls were lip syncing...sounded too studio like for live.

They were last night, but I've seen them on other shows where they sang live and the lead singer really can sing. Plus, she is the hottest one in the group. I think she will break away before too long and become a mega-pop-star.

God, could someone PLEASE dress poor Cat Deely in something resembling a decent outfit? :)

God, could someone PLEASE dress poor Cat Deely in something resembling a decent outfit? :)
HAHAHA. My wife always asks me "what is that she's wearing?" Of course being a guy I'm like, a dress. At least she isn't wearing animal prints anymore.

And we know "She Can't Dance." She has that same move over and over when she is on the stage at the end.

This is not American Idol. They are coming on to promote their songs not look bad on live tv.

Seriously, it's amazing how many of these chick bands, especially ones with dance routines, lip synch on tv and in concert. Why even bother with the microphone? Just get out there, dance around, and move your lips.

So lame. I think the american public would be amazed if they knew just how many "singers" played concerts without singing a word.

That last judged tonight I think added nothing to the show.

I think Martha is gone, and possibly Ryan. If not him Ivan.

The overhead camera and one of the floor cameras were not near as sharp as the others.

Seriously, it's amazing how many of these chick bands, especially ones with dance routines, lip synch on tv and in concert. Why even bother with the microphone? Just get out there, dance around, and move your lips.

So lame. I think the american public would be amazed if they knew just how many "singers" played concerts without singing a word.

I think the vast American audience wouldn't care. A lot of people want to see the video re-enacted when they go to the concert.

I think Martha and Ryan are definely going home. Some one should have told Martha not to where that stupid hat during her solo.

I think the vast American audience wouldn't care. A lot of people want to see the video re-enacted when they go to the concert. .

doubt it, remember what happened when Milli Vanili got busted?

The tennie bopper crowd wants to believe that these chicks (and boy bands) can do complicated dance routines and sing great at the same time. THe reality is very few of these girls can sing good to begin with. The studio comes in and cleans everything up. If people knew how bad they actually sound (was it ricky martin who accidentally had his mic recording his lip synching a few years back) their careers would sink like a stone.

It's all an illusion. At least a good rock band usually plays live, although I've heard of a few rock singers faking it too.

You mean professional singers use something like this:
http://www.antarestech.com/products/avp.shtml

* Auto-Tune Real-time Pitch Correction - Antares's world-renowned Auto-Tune technology lets you correct the pitch of vocals (or solo instruments), in real time, without distortion or artifacts, while preserving all of the expressive nuance of the original performance.


I can't believe it, I won't believe it :)

doubt it, remember what happened when Milli Vanili got busted?

The tennie bopper crowd wants to believe that these chicks (and boy bands) can do complicated dance routines and sing great at the same time. THe reality is very few of these girls can sing good to begin with. The studio comes in and cleans everything up. If people knew how bad they actually sound (was it ricky martin who accidentally had his mic recording his lip synching a few years back) their careers would sink like a stone.

Milli Vanili did not sing at all that different from not singing at a concert. People who do not really sing that well usually peter out because they lack material. Everyone except for Madonna who realize long ago it was more important to be an character than a singer.

I am glad Dimitri is finally gone. He was the most limited of all the dancers left. They really need to change the format of the vote off show. You know who is going to the bottom 2 by what order people were called up.

For this week I pick Ryan and the girls is a toss up. I think its possibly going to be Donyelle. Natalie will be in the bottom again, but I think that they have praised Natalie (nickname Tallywhacker) more recently.

The final 4 will be Benji, Travis, Heidi and Alison. I think either Benji or Alison will win, with it probably being Benji.

My wife and I were waiting for Benji & Heidi to be a couple. I guess it's a good thing they didn't do a sexual dance.

Yeah... even the few little things they did were a bit creepy ;). Benji is, against all odds, going to win this thing. And well he should, he's the best dancer out there.

Anyone else notice that Fox ran last weeks show before this weeks show? I guess they don't have enough filler summer programs to fill the slots. I just wish they'd get the show in true HD since they are filming with HD cameras. :D

Wow, what a stunner. Alison's gone!

Wow, what a stunner. Alison's gone!
I know, I'm so p****** off right now!! :mad:

man, shocked that Allison's gone :(

Benji will probaly win it now

him and Heidi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyMm2KupU2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP8W5MuGbeI

I know, I'm so p****** off right now!! :mad:
Me too! She was my top choice. :mad:

Add my wife to the list of those who were shocked, shocked! at Allison getting the boot. She thinks the judges ought to have one "veto" for times when the voting audience clearly gets it completely wrong, as they did last night.

Eh, I think Benji's better myself.. I was a bit amazed, but the fact that Ivan is still there surprises me more.

Both my wife and I had speculated since the very beginning that Allison looked like the most complete and versatile of the female dancers. Nothing we've seen since ever detracted from that first impression. When we saw Natalie (the most "professional" of all the girls) and Allison were the BOTTOM two we were aghast beyond description.

Popularity contests can be very frustrating because the majority rarely gets it "right". I know Allison is going to have a fabulous career someday, but I can't even say how disappointed I am that we're not going to be able to watch her dance in the next few weeks. At least her farewell dance was one for the ages! Gotta get that one firewired to the PC.

Tim

Add my wife to the list of those who were shocked, shocked! at Allison getting the boot. She thinks the judges ought to have one "veto" for times when the voting audience clearly gets it completely wrong, as they did last night.One veto wouldn't be enough to correct THAT wrong, as neither Allison OR Natalie should've gone last night. You could even tell by looking at the four male dancers that they were incredulous that the two best female dancers were the "bottom two". It was some of the best TV in years when Allison danced up on the dumbstruck, sobbing Travis in her farewell dance. Who would not be moved watching THAT!

I didn't like for a second that Donyell and Heidi were both safe leaving Allison and Natalie on the chopping block, but I could've taken it a lot better if the panel of judges had the final say on which of the bottom two would continue on. Contrary to American Idol where I'm happy to see the audience take the vote out of the panel's hands, I feel that it's inappropriate to give the audience the same power on SYTYCD.

Tim

Bummer Allison had a smoking body and a cute face. Natalie is more sexy though. Although she's a little big in the thighs. Allison just seemed so innocent and cte with just a little bit of a naughty side. I dug that chick.

Heidi now has the best body, but that face has to go.

Still, at least there's some hotn chicks left on the show.

I actually think Heidi is the best female dancer by far, but for sure Donyell should have been the one to go last night (and she wasn't even in the bottom two?!?)...

I actually think Heidi is the best female dancer by far, but for sure Donyell should have been the one to go last night (and she wasn't even in the bottom two?!?)...

Are you watching the same show??? Allison and Heidi are and have been by far better than the rest of the competition, (although Heidi did have by far her best performace this past weeK).

Allison is/was a chameleon and whatever she was given to do she made it look like that was her specialty. Did you see her hip hop performance last week???

Are you watching the same show??? Allison and Heidi are and have been by far better than the rest of the competition, (although Heidi did have by far her best performance this past week).

Allison is/was a chameleon and whatever she was given to do she made it look like that was her specialty. Did you see her hip hop performance last week???


Yeah, they were the best two and I was very surprised when Allison was voted off.

I think that Heidi and Benji will be the finalists although Travis is also very good. In fact, even though Ivan is very good also I think he is the weakest of the remaining 3.

With Allison gone Heidi is definitely the best of the remaining 3.

I feel Heidi and Donyelle should have been in the bottom two. Donyelle is unfortunately not nimble enough at this stage with her weight, whereas Heidi routinely over dances her sequences to the point of looking more mechanical than gracious.

I liked Alison's versatility and her cuteness, and Natalie is simply gracious. It's unfortunate that Alison's gone. I also like Ivan, as he actually seems to really enjoy his dance. But Travis and Benji are more talented and I get a feeling Benji already has this competition won.

I've got the HD feed recorded on my PVR, but I was trying to record the clip of Ivan dancing with Allison (for the last time!! :( ) to my laptop.

Everytime I try recording, either the resulting .MPG is unreadable, or else the PVR playback on the TV will get highly choppy and pixelated.

Obviously I'm a newbie, but does this mean that the show is copy protected? Thanks in advance!

Your question might be more aligned to the HDTV Recorders section.

I don't think the Fox stream is copy protected as I can record it. What kind of PVR, what is your source (OTA, cable, sat), what software are you using to copy it to the PC, and what software are you playing it back with? The fact that the PVR playback is choppy indicates that the recording has problems. Is it just Fox recording that are bad, or other channels too? It's interesting that the resulting file is a program stream (.mpg) instead of a transport stream (.ts or .tp). I usually record a transport stream and then run it through mpeg2repair or VideoRedo. Files that wouldn't play at all will play OK.

It's JUST this one particular recording that I'm having difficulties with. I have a Motorolla DCT-6412 P3, connected to my laptop via firewire, using CAPDVHS. You have the option of saving it to .MPG or .TS. MPGs play back fine when I record live TV or other recordings, but it doesnt work for this particular episode of SYTYCD (I'll have to record another one this week to see if it's any different).



Your question might be more aligned to the HDTV Recorders section.

I don't think the Fox stream is copy protected as I can record it. What kind of PVR, what is your source (OTA, cable, sat), what software are you using to copy it to the PC, and what software are you playing it back with? The fact that the PVR playback is choppy indicates that the recording has problems. Is it just Fox recording that are bad, or other channels too? It's interesting that the resulting file is a program stream (.mpg) instead of a transport stream (.ts or .tp). I usually record a transport stream and then run it through mpeg2repair or VideoRedo. Files that wouldn't play at all will play OK.

If the PVR is having a hard time playing this, the file may already be corrupted on the PVR. Can you playback .ts files? You could try copying it as a .ts with CAPDVHS and run it through mpeg2repair (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=442446). VideoRedo is a $50 dollar program that has repair capabilities too, and can convert .ts to .mpg. It has a free trial period. Another good free tool is HDTVtoMPEG2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=395744&highlight=hdtvtompeg2). Despite its name the .mpg conversions it does on the later versions isn't a true program stream, but I've read there are earlier versions that do.

Fox streams are a bit different than other networks in that Fox network generates the actual stream that is broadcast on the station. The stations have a "splicer" that switches between the local HD encoder and the network stream. I've had problems with recordings on a PVR from Fox when the station switches between their stream and the network. My PC HD tuner does better as long as I keep the video hardware acceleration turned on. Other OTA commercial networks send the network at a higher bit rate, and the stations re-encode it with their own encoder for the transmitted stream.

Lauren Sanchez BETTER be back. The English twit was annoying. Still, some funny moments. The guy doing the face plant for instance. That high school chick was cute. I really didn't need the midgit, the cross dresser, or the realy fat chick who was stripping.



THE ENGLISH TWIT!!!!!!!
From what i understand this girl is one of the best presenters in the uk.
I would say you call her a twit because its such a shock seeing a non american on your tv.
Travel the world a bit and meet other cultures and you might not think all other people other than americans are twits.

Um... right. Because people can't be twits from any country, right? She's horrible on this show. Seriously terrible. And they dress her like she found her clothes in a bag outside the salvation army. I could care less if she were American, British, or from Timbuktu. She's awful. And since you have absolutely NO idea where I've been (or even my own nationality for that matter) why don't you just... do something really awful to yourself ;)

Lauren Sanchez was a hard act to follow. Cat Deely is a bit lifeless in comparison, but she's MILES (or should I say kilometers) ahead of the Canadian host on The One.

Um... right. Because people can't be twits from any country, right? She's horrible on this show. Seriously terrible. And they dress her like she found her clothes in a bag outside the salvation army.

Oh right ok..
You have no idea what the hell you are talking about but that is ok.
You could tell that with your first post.
Calling a decent presenter a ENGLISH TWIT.



I could care less if she were American, British, or from Timbuktu. She's awful. And since you have absolutely NO idea where I've been (or even my own nationality for that matter) why don't you just... do something really awful to yourself ;)



Well its pretty obvious you are American or at least have lived here for a long long time.
Why.?
Because people that have travelled the world a little are not so offended when a presenter from another country comes on your screens.
I remember when they had HIT ME ON WITH A BRITISH HOST LAST YEAR.
SHOCK HORROR a NON AMERICAN HOST..HOW DARE THEY.
Yet the outrage that caused on that website.
Why do we have to have that crappy BRIT HOST ETC ETC.
You would also realize if you travelled a little and got yourself out of the goldfish bowl that is the USA' that other countries dont adopt the same policy that the usa does towards tv shows or towards other countries.
What i mean by that is.
NO non american shows on PRIMETIME OR ABC NBC FOX CBS etc etc.
Go to the Uk for instance and see how many American shows they show on the BBC OR ITV etc.
And please dont say its because they dont have any decent shows because the Brits produce some of the best tv in the world.
Shows like THE OFFICE which won awards worldwide was remade for USA why not just show the orig.
Same with COUPLING..COLD FEET...LIFE ON MARS..ETC ETC ETC.
Its people like you that are so anti anything Non AMERICAN and gives America a bad name overseas.
YOU KNOW IT ALL AND YOU ARE BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

As for telling me to go and do something bad to myself.
No thanks i prefer to debate my points without asking someone to harm themselves.
I guess that is where you and i differ.

blah blah blah blah blah

Pure and simple, Hollywood is still the center of the entertainment world. That's not to say there isn't alot of production elsewhere, but not to the scale of Hollywood. No, Bollywood doesn't compare.

Last I checked, American Idol has English producers, and Simon Cowell is the most popular element of the show.

Dancing With The Stars is produced here by the BBC, and the off-screen announcer is English.

CBS's main foreign news correspondant is from the BBC. Their late night talk show host is from Scotland. How American does he sound (http://www.cbs.com/latenight/latelate/comedy)?

BBC World service is carried by both major satellite radio companies, and BBC America is carried on satellite and cable here. The Office (http://www.bbcamerica.com/genre/comedy_games/the_office/the_office.jsp) is shown there.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US isn't isolated as described. If we didn't have Lauren to compare to, Cat would seem alot better.

I couldn't stand how messed up Lauren looked. Too many surgeries. I much prefer Cat.

That being said, We do show some BBC programing on BBC America and on PBS. Although I am not delusional to believe that those are current shows. :)

The biggest reason I can see keeping "foreign" programing off the air in the States is the FCC. It is my understanding that reality shows like "Big Brother" and scripted shows are a little more risque then our current "decency standards" allow. Not to mention our major networks are looking to make money which probably doesn't include buying rights/license to shows they can (re)make themselves and then resell/license to the world.

Ah zippy, you really are so much fun. I mean, if you're going to try and "debate" with me put some actual substance into it besides calling me an American. Oh, the horror! I won't of course talk about the 3 years I spent in Korea, the year in Ecuador, the year in Panama, the upteen zillion other countries I've visited because, after all, I obviously have never left my "fishbowl". Seriously, this has got to be the STUPIDEST post I've read in a long time. And that's saying a lot :).

Here's the fact... Kat sucks on THIS SHOW. She isn't right for THIS SHOW. I don't give a flaming rats ass what she does in the U.K., Germany, or the back of your car. She isn't good on THIS SHOW. Clear enough? Now can we get back to an actual debate, like who should win? I mean, we all know Benji WILL win, but who should? ;)

I couldn't stand how messed up Lauren looked. Too many surgeries. I much prefer Cat.

I agree. I can't believe people liked Lauren. Her face looked very disturbing from all the work she had done.

Cat's not great either, but she doesn't hurt the show.

It seems like it's a pretty easy job to host this type of show, but obviously it's not. As crazy as it might sound, Ryan Seacrest must actually be pretty talented. When you compare him to all the other hosts of similar type shows, he really does blow them away.

The thing I don't like about this show, which they don't do anymore, is when someone is safe or not safe, you can't really tell for sure by the words that Cat uses. She needs to stick to safe or not safe.

They could cut out probably 5 minutes of the show by not repeating every single word the judges said the night before.

They could cut out probably 5 minutes of the show by not repeating every single word the judges said the night before.

Welcome to live reality TV where our motto is "STRETCH! For the love of God, STRETCH!"

This is the reason to own a TiVo.

]Pure and simple, Hollywood is still the center of the entertainment world. That's not to say there isn't alot of production elsewhere, but not to the scale of Hollywood. No, Bollywood doesn't compare.
=================
I cant argue with that.
=================

Last I checked, American Idol has English producers, and Simon Cowell is the most popular element of the show.
============
TRUE
============
Dancing With The Stars is produced here by the BBC, and the off-screen announcer is English.
=========
TRUE AGAIN
=========
CBS's main foreign news correspondant is from the BBC. Their late night talk show host is from Scotland. How American does he sound (http://www.cbs.com/latenight/latelate/comedy)?



BBC World service is carried by both major satellite radio companies, and BBC America is carried on satellite and cable here. The Office (http://www.bbcamerica.com/genre/comedy_games/the_office/the_office.jsp) is shown there.

Here is what im talking about.
Im talking about Network tv not Satelite or Cable.
And my point was and still is this.
Lets just take a show like The Office.
The Uk version is better in every way.
Yet rather than show that version on NBC the US market have to remake it.
That is the same for every single Uk based show.
Yes BBC AMERICA carry uk progs but its NOT ABC CBS FOX NBS WB is it ?
And my other point is that most countries including the uk do not do this.
Lets take FRIENDS.
The uk didnt try and remake that because they felt your American Humour would not translate to the uk.
They just aired the show as is.
They do that with all of your shows and air a lot of them on the main networks.
Either BBC1 BBC2 ITV OR CH4 or CH5
DO the Brits remake LOST OR 24 or shows like that .? Of course they dont.
I always remember watching a episode of LAST CALL with Carson Daly and he had Sienna Miller on as a guest.
At the time she was in a show called Keane Eddie which had a 95% british cast and was a british show.
It was the only time i can remember such a thing being aired on US TV.
Carson said and i quote. So Sienna this is a British show ?
Yes it is.
And its airing over here? on Network tv WHY ?
It was almost like shock horror this cant happen here.
Countless time the usa have ruined superb shows that i have imported from the uk on dvd that would have been better left alone.
COUPLING..COLD FEET...The next to be ruined will be a show called LIFE ON MARS.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US isn't isolated as described. If we didn't have Lauren to compare to, Cat would seem alot better.[/QUOTE]


Has it also occured to you that Lauren might not be that great if faced with a country that had no idea who she was.
Cat is a superb presenter in her own right back in the uk.
But she is clearly not at ease yet working here.
Just like any job when you first start it.
It takes time to find your feet.

Is it Kat or Cat? I see listings both ways, but more Cat.

According to Wikipedia and Fox her name is Cat Deeley.

Off topic posts have been removed. If I killed an on-topic post by accident, my apologies. Let's keep this to the topic and leave the inflammatory comments out in the hall.

What was so aweful about Cat's presentation on the show? I don't think she is doing any worse than Lauren last year. :confused:

Cat is a superb presenter in her own right back in the uk.
But she is clearly not at ease yet working here.
Just like any job when you first start it.
It takes time to find your feet.There's also such a thing as training. In the U.S. most reporters have a regional accent that they have to learn how to neutralize if they want to have success on national broadcasts. Cat has made no attempt to drop her "R" at the end of words that end in "a" or put an "R" at the end of words that actually end in "r".

I personally appreciate that kind of international/regional "flavor", but I think it might be some time yet before most Americans will accept that seeming lack of neutrality on national TV.

Other than that, I think Cat is fine. Not great. Not terrible.

Tim

I was fairly disapointed in last night's efforts. Benji and Donyelle teamed back together I thought would be great, but their broadway routine was a bit off. I agree with Nigel, I think Benji outdanced her. I loved the waltz, but I will freely admit I found the contemporary just plain weird. I've never been a big contemporary fan, and this season has really made me downright loathe it. My wife and I were just sort of staring blankly trying to figure out what in the hell they were doing half the time. My predictions are that Donyelle and Ivan are gone tonight. Not so sure on the girls, but I think Ivan's time is definately over.

My other notes... come on wardrobe people, Cat is so skinny it looked like you had her wearing a potato sack. Nice hair though. Mia strikes me as possibly the most pretentious snot in the known universe. Seriously. I was SO glad that she wasn't on many shows this year, and when I saw her on the panel last night I about cried.

I agree Ivan is gone too. I really think Natalie needs to go. How many times has she been in the bottom group? Donyelle has really dropped in the past few weeks. It could be her toe, but I don't know. I could see her going. I thought that Donyelle and Benji would do better last night too, but something just seemed off with them. Heidi & Travis were by far the best group last night.

If Heidi is paired with Benji next week, Travis and whoever is left can go ahead and purchase their plane tickets home. But what do I know, I picked Allison in the final 2. :confused:

I think the injuries of some of the girls have started to show over the last couple of weeks. Every dancer has injuries, but it is easier to hide in a crowd of dancer than in the spotlight.

I was fairly disapointed in last night's efforts. Benji and Donyelle teamed back together I thought would be great, but their broadway routine was a bit off. I agree with Nigel, I think Benji outdanced her. I loved the waltz, but I will freely admit I found the contemporary just plain weird. I've never been a big contemporary fan, and this season has really made me downright loathe it. My wife and I were just sort of staring blankly trying to figure out what in the hell they were doing half the time. My predictions are that Donyelle and Ivan are gone tonight. Not so sure on the girls, but I think Ivan's time is definately over.

My other notes... come on wardrobe people, Cat is so skinny it looked like you had her wearing a potato sack. Nice hair though. Mia strikes me as possibly the most pretentious snot in the known universe. Seriously. I was SO glad that she wasn't on many shows this year, and when I saw her on the panel last night I about cried.
Is it cause Mia is being brutally honest with her comments? :eek: :rolleyes: she nailed it right on, I think she is a great judge and only wants the best out of the dancers. There's a reason why she is where she is at now. :)

Afro pop dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruH41pqjX4o
Smooth Waltz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDpZZA-GFwo

Mia is not brutally honest. She has a record of consistently attacking the girls no matter what they do and praising the boys who dance contemporary. Happened last year and is happening again this year. Thankfully she's not there as much this year. She always slants that way, much like Nigel frankly slants towards the girls. Mary just slants towards her gin bottle ;) I'm glad there are people out there who like contemporary dance creations. Personally I'm either sitting their with my mouth open trying to understand them, or laughing my ass off like with the pirates routine the other night ;).

Ent Weekly has voted Cat the hottest Import on Us tv.
I guess not everyone thinks she is a twit.
She will be here next season.
Get used to it.

zippy.. someone can be attractive and still be a twit. It's a comment on personality, not on looks. Get used to it.

Seriously though, is she your sister or something? Because you're taking this awfully personal.

Mia is a female dog. I'm waiting for Nygel to smack her.

someone can be attractive and still be a twit.
She's a HOT twit?

This sounds alot like the Canadians who complained about the negative comments made of The One's Canadian host. Ironic that there were few viewers in Canada.

If someone wants to call Regis Philbin a twit, feel free.

The final two contestants should be Benji and Travis. I can't believe Donyelle made it but Natalie got booted. To me, she was the best female dancer left in the show - Heidi is too mechanical and Donyelle is too lethargic at this stage. If it were for me, I would have sent Heidi and Donyelle home, and made the competition between Benji, Travis, Ivan and Natalie.

Of course this show is a popularity show, and not really a test of talent. :rolleyes:

Yep. Like any reality show in which the viewers vote. It's kind of why Big Brother moved away from that. I won't agree that Ivan deserved to stay though, he should have been out a few weeks ago.

Heidi is too mechanical...
Really? Man, when she does her solos and starts shaking her assets I get a bit of a fever! Hell, even my wife (who's Brazilian and should be used to that sort of dancing) starts salivating at Heidi during her solos! She's awesome!!!!

Heidi is just good.

She does have great solos.

Can you imagine during next week's finale that it comes down to Benji vs. Heidi for the championship (they're cousins, you know)?

I can here (the late) Gene Wood now: "let's play...the family feud!"

Love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE L O V E L O V E L O V E L O V E THIS SHOW!

Hmm.. no posts after the season finale, huh ? :confused: Not even from Emaych?? :p

I think Travis showed that he was the better dancer of the group. But it looks like Benji is going to walk away with the crown..

Travis is like a little emo kid. Benji is WAY more entertaining to watch and would be my pick.... if his cousin didn't have such a smoking hot body! I would watch her mow the lawn if she did it in one of the outfits she was wearing last night!!! :D

I don't get how anyone thought Travis was better... he just didn't stand out at all to me. It's clear that the top two will be Benji and Travis.

Hmm.. no posts after the season finale, huh ? :confused: Not even from Emaych?? :p

I think Travis showed that he was the better dancer of the group. But it looks like Benji is going to walk away with the crown..
I have been watching the dance-off and result shows one right after the other and only then, following upon this two-hour rapture, consulting the Forum. But I came to the realization this week that I will get only one hour of pure delight until next week and then not for another year!!!

I dropped in here, still have not having watched last night's show, since results are next week, therefore no one can yet reveal the winner, which come to think of it will be no surprise anyway -- it WILL be Benji. He is the favorite and America's favorite, but I find ALL these folks incredibly entertaining. I find I am right there with the very forthcoming and articulate champion of this art, NL, when he says that he is not that concerned about who actually wins, all the finalists are very talented and winning individuals -- but I count myself the winner for having this show as my summertime oasis in the horrific drought of fresh programming.

All for now.....

I wonder if they will count down 4, 3, 2, 1? That'd be kinda cool.

That last dance they did together was really neat. I just hope Mary takes her medication before the final show. If not her, her hand.

I'm just glad that Mia wasn't a judge Wednesday night.

I have been watching the dance-off and result shows one right after the other and only then, following upon this two-hour rapture, consulting the Forum. But I came to the realization this week that I will get only one hour of pure delight until next week and then not for another year!!!


Despair not, young man! Your dancing jones will soon be satiated with the triumphant return of "Dancing with the Stars" - now moved out of the summertime ghetto into "prime time". Better show than this one anyway. All I hope is that they've got somebody who can be the hottie-equivalent of the breathtaking Stacy Keebler (who so should have won it last year).

Not to hijack, but if DWS going to be HD? I've seen it on this forum that it will be, but haven't seen anything else. I've never watched it but might if its in HD.

Not to hijack, but if DWS going to be HD? I've seen it on this forum that it will be, but haven't seen anything else. I've never watched it but might if its in HD.

I believe it was in HD last year, wasn't it? If so, then the answer is "yes".

No DWS has not been HD ever so far.. hopefully it will be this season in primetime. Back to the show on hand... did anyone feel as if the judges where unfairly nice to travis and unduely harsh on the others? It seemed a little skewed to me. I actually thought the waltz was really enjoyable and yet they trashed the dancers more so than anyone in a long time.

Savageone,

Yes, my wife and I noticed that they seemed to be favoring Travis. I do believe that Travis is the best dancer, but I think that Benji is the best entertainer and that makes more sense for the show that the winner is going to be in.

-- Martin

Despair not, young man! Your dancing jones will soon be satiated with the triumphant return of "Dancing with the Stars" - now moved out of the summertime ghetto into "prime time". Better show than this one anyway. All I hope is that they've got somebody who can be the hottie-equivalent of the breathtaking Stacy Keebler (who so should have won it last year).
Perhaps interestingly, I could cultivate not the least interest in that show, DWtS, and I don't know if I have a dancing jones per se, though I find it does have the power to move and exhilarate, but I just LOVE nearly everything about SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE, from the auditions of hopefuls, to the excitement of the young talent selected, to Nigel Lythgoe's considerable outspoken eloquence, to the delightfully cute, charming and exceedingly competent Cat Dealey, to the goal of finding versatility and growth from raw aptitude, to even, yes, even Mary's kinda goofy but never less than exuberant enthusiasm for the art and performers.

The only thing that comes to mind as unappealing was the unfortunate use of those tandem two hip-hop choreographers as judges -- they never had an original or enlightening comment between the two of them -- also I could do without NL's occasionally seemingly mean-spirited barbs -- other than that, there is no show I find so tasty or anticipate so much on TV presently.

Strange perhaps, but by contrast I find almost nothing to justify watching, let alone the success of that other show.

I'm pretty sure they'll do the 4,3,2,1 countdown to give the winner...they did it on the final show of last season's version.

My hope for something interesting is to bring back some of season 1's dancers so we can be updated on what they've been up to over the last year. My particular choices would be Snow, Allen, Melody and Nick (last season's winner).

The season 1 performers are hard to miss as they're in the credits on every show (I recognize Allan and Snow immediately, but the others are almost impossible to recognize or remember).

Is it just me or is the MC lady a little drunk tonight?

No surprise - Benji won it. I'm betting the other 3 will have lots of job offers too.

I was wrong, they did not do the 4,3,2,1 countdown. They brought out Heidi, she did a solo, and was told she didn't win. Later on, same thing for Donyelle.

Cat played games with Benji and Travis telling them both "Are you America's favorite dancer? I'm sorry <dramatic pause> but you'll have to wait til later to find out". Benji was (finally) declared the winner at the end of the show. Mary screamed, Brian screamed, Nigel put his fingers in his ears, Benji cried (again). All had a good time (I hope).

Too bad Cat didn't dance (can she?) like Lauren Sanchez did last year. Well, we at least got to keep a look at those nice long legs!

Anybody know how the voting went (as in who got what percentage)? There were about 16 million votes cast.

I was wrong, they did not do the 4,3,2,1 countdown. They brought out Heidi, she did a solo, and was told she didn't win. Later on, same thing for Donyelle.

Cat played games with Benji and Travis telling them both "Are you America's favorite dancer? I'm sorry <dramatic pause> but you'll have to wait til later to find out". Benji was (finally) declared the winner at the end of the show. Mary screamed, Brian screamed, Nigel put his fingers in his ears, Benji cried (again). All had a good time (I hope).

Too bad Cat didn't dance (can she?) like Lauren Sanchez did last year. Well, we at least got to keep a look at those nice long legs!

Anybody know how the voting went (as in who got what percentage)? There were about 16 million votes cast.
I wish they would have talked more with Benji and the others a bit longer after he was announced the winner, like a post show wrap up.

BTW, what kind of SUV did he win?

Thanks.

I like that they brought back the ghouls routine, that was my favorite group number. I was also glad to see Benji's choice with the Salsa. I'll be honest, I really could have done without all the contemporary. It was about my worst nightmare ;). I just can't get into it. Mia sobbing over Ivan was fairly funny. I was starting to think in the end that maybe Travis had pulled it out, but I'm glad Benji won. I can just see the conversation now though...

"So, Celine, when are we going to do some west coast swing?"
"Eh?"

Did anyone notice Heidi's breast get a little bit exposed out there (on the first dance she did with Benji)? Nothing obscene, just the bottom of it was kind of hanging. She tried fixing it when they were done. I didn't think too much of of it, but my wife thought it was funny enough to point it out to me.

Costumes was one of the aspects of the show that strikes a bad note with me - especially female costumes. Every girl seems to be wearing very revealing and/or skimpy costumes that might be a bit inappropriate or over the top for a prime time show. It doesn't set a good example for young kids watching the show.

The best (read: most entertaining) dancer won. What a great show -- everything American Idol SHOULD be but isn't.

As for Heidi's "wardrobe malfunction", my wife and I argued for 10 minutes. She thinks it was boob but I still think it was just a foam pad that slipped out... :D

pg - you're wrong. ;) Wonder how much the FCC is going to fine them for this latest example of moral debauchery...?

pg - you're wrong. ;) Wonder how much the FCC is going to fine them for this latest example of moral debauchery...?
I'm gonna stand my ground on this one, as whatever it was looked different in color from the rest of her smokin hot body. Regardless, I'll go ahead and leave it at:

http://www.socalsportbikes.info/xmb/images/smilies/worthless.gif

My wife pointed it out too. It was definitely her boob.

I'm gonna stand my ground on this one, as whatever it was looked different in color from the rest of her smokin hot body. Regardless, I'll go ahead and leave it at:

http://www.socalsportbikes.info/xmb/images/smilies/worthless.gif

This is the best I could do. Didn't want to mess with capturing so just busted out the camera :)

so when will we kow if Benji is going to accept the offer to be in Celine's show?

After he stops crying.

Costumes was one of the aspects of the show that strikes a bad note with me - especially female costumes. Every girl seems to be wearing very revealing and/or skimpy costumes that might be a bit inappropriate or over the top for a prime time show. It doesn't set a good example for young kids watching the show.
Would you consider getting real for a moment? Ever drop in on VEGAS or any of a hundred other prime time body buffets? Catch the MISS TEEN pageant?

Sorry, this is just a personal pet peeve of mine, this pretense that female power in this country, whether to procure ratings, cultivate corporate dollars, or in any other way promote their personal agendas, is NOT at all times assessed in an atmosphere of where they rank in attractiveness -- the MISS TEEN producers know this fact, the young girls in the audience of SYTYCD know it, and just about everyone else in America knows it, so let us not pretend please? -- OK? This is not to mention of course that the top prize was a dancing stint in Vegas, which is of course of course of course the absolute home of showcase stage productions of bodies on display. ANYWAY................

LOVED the costumes. LOVE THE SHOW! The expected and right winner, though I quite agreed with Mary that a tie would've been just ducky with me -- I don't see any losers with this show, but the best part about it for me is that I win by having this to watch in an otherwise bleak season of reruns and unengaging reality offerings. Cheers and kudos to the producers! Just a perfect show.

Watched the show last night since I was out of town Wednesday. Apparently the show ran long because it cut off just after he was announced the winner. So anything that happened after then we didn't see. I'd rather not have to get the show thru other means just to see the ending, does anyone know if the ending is on youtube or anything?

Also from D*, there were about 3 times where the video would compltely stop but audio was fine. It happened once and went gray for 30 seconds. Did anyone else see this?

Cat pulling out those results early in teh show was not dramatic at all.

As for Heidi's "wardrobe malfunction", my wife and I argued for 10 minutes. She thinks it was boob but I still think it was just a foam pad that slipped out... :DFunny, but my wife and I had a disagreement for just a few seconds as well. She soon conceded that it was probably some kind of pad. I guess it depends at least a little on what you wanted to see.

After further review, I rescind my claim that it's padding -- I do believe that's BOOBIE!!! :D

Oh come on ppl. If it were areola or even nipple showing it may be a network censor concern but you see more of the breast in a bikini which you see all the time on network tv. Relax and take a cold shower. ;)

Oh come on ppl. If it were areola or even nipple showing it may be a network censor concern but you see more of the breast in a bikini which you see all the time on network tv. Relax and take a cold shower. ;)

Well, while what you say is technically true, we were subjected in this instance to an particular area of the female anatomy (low & outside, to use a baseball metaphor) that is almost never exposed to view. I remember reading many years ago about how the costume designers in the original Star Trek were very careful about not exposing the underside of the breast, 'cause that would bring down the ire of the network censors. You could expose the top and inside, however, all the way down to the areola. They joked at the time that perhaps the censors felt that "moss grows there". :D No navels, either. Seriously!

And in this wacky conservative world we're living in now, who knows what the FCC might find objectionable? Good Heavens man, we must think of the children!

No more low to the outside than you see here (http://www.microkitten.com/images/prods/evelyn-j/small-bikini.jpg) with this kind of bikini that can be seen worn on many network shows. :D

And in this wacky conservative world we're living in now, who knows what the FCC might find objectionable? Good Heavens man, we must think of the children!Or more specifically: American children. Somehow children in other countries are not damaged as easily.

Or more specifically: American children. Somehow children in other countries are not damaged as easily.
I agree but I think archiguy was just joking sarcasticly. :)

Well, I went back to the tape with some certain degree of pre-informed malice aforethought, hoping for some small measure of self-inflicted damage from the wardrobe malfunction which I'd somehow missed in initial viewing...unfortunately, it was evident why my attention was not inordinantly drawn on first go 'round -- can't report that I find the dangling of a breast-enhancement appliance to be that sexy or worthy of note in any other way -- it was much lighter in tone and perfectly circular (not outlined in the shape of a bikini that might have tan-protected that area, were it flesh), and when she manipulated it, it seemed more or less apparent that she was grappling with the edge of it -- thumb on one side, fingers on the other.

Oh well, the only disappointment (and after the fact at that), in an otherwise perfect finale to a great season.

No more low to the outside than you see here (http://www.microkitten.com/images/prods/evelyn-j/small-bikini.jpg) with this kind of bikini that can be seen worn on many network shows. :D

Ah, a worthy debate. This is why I love the AVS Forum. :p

It looks as though this year's non-studio stuff is 16:9 SD as well. I'm wondering if the studio stuff will be true HD, though....

The early metered market ratings for last night's season premiere are posted here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10367387&&#post10367387

(The fast national ratings will be posted in the same place shortly after noon ET.)

Sex is back! :) Oh man does that boy have some momma issues.

Q: Why do network censors and the FCC hate having nipples shown on TV?

A: Because anything that points at them seems like an accusation....


;)

It looks as though this year's non-studio stuff is 16:9 SD as well. I'm wondering if the studio stuff will be true HD, though....Afraid not, but the show does use HD cameras (same ones used for DWTS). The video is component all the way through, and the live results show is uncompressed 601 to TOC. First live results show is 6/14.

I have to say I enjoy this a lot more than American Idol.


The Nigel/Mary duo is a lot better than Simon/Paula (mostly due to Mary being 100x better)
The rotating third judge is generally better than Randy 'check it out' Jackson
Bad dancers are generally more amusing that bad singers
Excellent dancers are generally more fun to watch than excellent singers
The host is way hotter

yeah the judges seem much more respectful of the contestants; there's less cruelty, and unlike Simon, Nigel doesn't act bored or like he's too good for the show.

Bad dancers are generally more amusing that bad singers
Plus there's the possibility that they may injure themselves for some unintentional physical comedy. :)

Is Cat Deeley presenting this series?

It is interesting how different shows use different judge dynamics. Over here there are two competing shows searching for new musical theatre stars (after the success of the BBC series casting Maria in the Sound of Music last year). The BBC version is casting Joseph the ITV version is casting Grease (confusingly the BBC produced NBC show for the US also cast Grease!)

Simon Cowell is producing, the ITV show (though not a judge on it) - which is much more critical, and also technically not as interesting to watch (flat staging, flat set, flat lighting, traditional studio layout) It can be quite spiteful and hurtful at times.

The BBC version, which at first glance is casting a less popular show, is much more positive, the judges criticise, but not in a pointed personal way, and are more constructive. Also the judges play more of a role in tutoring the contestants through the week - particularly a singing coach. It is technically more watchable, and more interestingly staged, with better lighting (and it is HD!) It is a much warmer and more positive show - and the presenter is witty and very sharp.

And guess what - the warmer, better made show is winning in the ratings by quite a margin. Negative judging may have had its day.

Best line of the series so far, after "Sex" (yes that's his nickname) does his lame-o dance routine (he tried out last year also):

Nigel: I may rue asking this but... Well, Mary, is Sex better for you this year?

Definitely, a LMAO line!! :D

I loved the little breaker with the hat! How cool is it that they are getting him a movie role?

Is Cat Deeley presenting this series?Yes (http://www.fox.com/dance/bios)The BBC version is casting Joseph the ITV version is casting Grease (confusingly the BBC produced NBC show for the US also cast Grease!)BBC's Grease didn't do that well here, but it had heavy competition from the NFL Football playoffs. By the time they were over, the short series was nearing its end. It may have done well as a summer series, but NBC has America's Got Talent (another Cowell production).

Yes (http://www.fox.com/dance/bios)BBC's Grease didn't do that well here, but it had heavy competition from the NFL Football playoffs. By the time they were over, the short series was nearing its end. It may have done well as a summer series, but NBC has America's Got Talent (another Cowell production).

Ah - I think we're getting "Britain's Got Talent" as well to ring the changes with "X Factor" (which is undergoing a presenter and judge line-up change for the next series)

Pop Idol (the UK original version of American Idol) hasn't run in the UK for a while now - "X Factor" seems to have replaced it. (X Factor is made by Simon Cowell and features Simon Cowell, Pop Idol was made by 19 but featured Simon Cowell. There was some interesting legal discussion about the similarity in formats a while back...)

Interestingly, Simon Cowell has admitted that his UK "Grease" show is not doing well. (He's always come across as pretty honest - both on-screen in judging terms, and when interviewed)

I have to say I enjoy this a lot more than American Idol.


The Nigel/Mary duo is a lot better than Simon/Paula (mostly due to Mary being 100x better)
The rotating third judge is generally better than Randy 'check it out' Jackson
Bad dancers are generally more amusing that bad singers
Excellent dancers are generally more fun to watch than excellent singers
The host is way hotter

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVE LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVEL O V E L O V E THIS SHOW!