My three-year-old E80 had problems recording to a newly purchased pack of Fuji RAM (my machine read them as having write protection on and was unable to turn it off). There'd been a discussion on the Panasonic DVD recorder Yahoo group about last spring's firmware upgrade for the 80 increasing compatibility with various discs, so I thought I'd try it.

I downloaded and installed the upgrade. I've upgraded the firmware on this machine twice before, without problem; the upgrade this time followed the exact same process. When it was done, I put the RAM into the machine, but was still unable to use the discs. I exchanged the Fuji RAM for some by Panasonic, headed home again and saved the stuff I wanted on RAM to the new discs. No problem.

The problem came when I tried to dub some of the stuff on the hard drive to DVD-R -- the first time I had tried to do so since upgrading the firmware. The dub went fine, but when I finalized the disc, the process took longer than normal -- about 8-10 minutes. At the end, instead of the couple of small beeps and twitching sounds where the laser goes on and off, there were a number of small beeps and twitches. The disc was reported as finalized, and I hit Return. Instead of the normal newly-created-DVD-menu appearing, a message appeared saying, "This disc is incompatible." I ejected and re-inserted the disc; this time the error message said, "Cannot read. Please check the disc."

I figured it was a burn problem and tried again with another premium-grade TY; same result. Tried FR'ing the prgram, tried with Sony and Maxell blanks from open spindles where the previous discs finalized okay, tried recording a new program directly to a blank disc and finalizing -- same result. Basicly, every time I try to finalize a disc, the process takes too long, the machine makes extra sounds at the end, and the finalization is unsuccessful.

My assumption is that the firmware upgrade screwed something up. I went back to Panasonic's website, checked that I was definitely looking at the firmware upgrade for the 80 and re-downloaded the file. I then checked the filesize and creation date of the .frm file I got from Panasonic with the one I installed, and they match, so I know I didn't accidently download and install the wrong file. (There is a discrepancy on the Panasonic download site, where they say the filesize is about one meg, but it's actually 6.5 meg, so I'm not positive Panasonic has the right file up there for download, but I definitely downloaded and installed the one that was labelled for the 80.)

Questions:

1. Has anyone had and resolved a similar problem? If so, how?

2. I still have the firmware upgrade CDs from my two previous upgrades. I know that trying to go back to an earlier version of the firmware by just sticking the older CD into the machine won't work. Does anyone know of a way to either go back to an earlier version of the firmware, or a way to wipe the current firmware so I can re-install the earlier version? (I've worked with computers for 20 years and am not afraid of tinkering around with the innards if necessary.)

3. If I get a new Panasonic, I think the current models are the 50 and the 75. Does anyone know if I can take a disc created on the 80 and finalize it on the 50 and/or 75? If I create the disc menu structure on the 80 (with the text-only menu, no thumbnails) and finalize it on the 50 or 75, will I be forced into the newer menu structure (split lines of text, with thumbnails)?

4. On the E80, if I wanted bookmarks in my final disc, I had to record to the hard drive, put the bookmarks in, then dub to DVD-R. According to what I've read online, both the 50 and the 75 can also record to +R discs, which could theoretically permit one to add bookmarks to programs recorded directly to the disc. For the 50 and the 75, does anyone know if bookmarks can be inserted into a program recorded directly to a DVD+R?

Any help appreciated -- thank you all very much!

1. Haven't seen that problem related to a firmware upgrade but your symptoms mirror my experience when the optical drive in my E80 died (it would still read DVD-R's and commercial DVD's but I had trouble finalizing -R's and it stopped recognizing RAMs). The issue you had with recognizing the original Fuji Rams and the "difference" in the noises your optical drive is making may indicate that your optical drive is starting to go south (before the firmware upgrade) and the fact that you noticed the finalization issue after the firmware upgrade may just be coincidence (i.e., you are tying it to the firmware upgrade, which logically makes sense, but it may be a red herring because your optical drive was already failing before the upgrade). Just a thought.

2. Someone else will have to answer this one. Be careful, though, as I noted in 1 above, it may not be the firmware after all.

3. You should be able to finalize your E80 discs on the newer Panny's.

4. Panny doesn't provide full support for +R, +RW in the EH75, you can record to them, but it basically treats them like -R's so you can't change bookmarks "on disc" like you can with recorders that have full +R, +VR mode support. You also can't change the +R DVD-ROM "booktype" for improved compatibility.

I haven't had the same problem finalizing (very seldom use -R on the E80), but I have had occassional problems with the unit not recognizing -RAM disks. Using the recommended lens cleaner has usually helped. It might be worth trying the lens cleaner (LF-K123LCA1) from Panasonic. It costs about $30 direct.

David

Hunh -- I've been so focussed on the firmware aspect of things that I completely forgot the physical! Thank you both for pointing that out to me, otherwise I'd be sitting here trying to figure out how to reset the firmware. (Okay, I'm actually still wondering that, but the possibility of physical problems opens other avenues.)

I actually had a Maxell CD/DVD cleaner lying around and figured I'd try David's idea of cleaning the lens (sometimes I feel stupid ... ), mostly because cleaning the lens is something I can deal with a lot easier than optical drive failure!

So anyway, I cleaned the lens and recorded a short clip to DVD-R and finalized it successfully -- except you know that message that comes up right before you finalize that says it's going to take about 4 minutes to finalize, do you want to continue? Well, the message said that it was going to take about 16 minutes to finalize. I got sidetracked by a sick cat, so I'm not sure how long it actually took, but it did finalize okay.

Then I repeated the process. This time, it said it would take about 4 minutes to finalize. There were no extra click/beeps at the end of finalization, but the resulting disc was a failure. I have to head back to work, but when I get in tonight I'll try running the lens cleaner again and do some more tests and see what happens.

In the meantime, I'd like to thank you both for your help and especially vferrari for your clear and reasoned explanation and the information on newer Panasonic models. Thanks again!

My E80 performs EXACTLY as you decribe! It happened almost immediately after the upgrade-problems finalizing just as you describe.

I have finalized the disks with my ES20 and it works fine that way. BUT, I cannot read any of the previously burned disks on any media. I too have cleaned the laser but no success.

It seems too coincidental to have two machines exhibit exactly the same problems after the upgrade.

Yep. That's sounding more like a hosed firmware upgrade file now.

Sorry I also put this update on my e80 & same problem. It looked normal when finalizing after the update but it had same error sign when returning to normal screen.

Maybe we can report this to Panasonic and get a fix or alternate?????

As an after thought, I remembered that I had a finalization failure a week or so ago and threw the disc out. Also remembered the unit was sometimes not recognizing some older recorded material and they had to be reinserted. So after I inspected and reinserted the failed disk and this time it got recognized. I tried the disc in 2 other finiky players and the disk played excellent! I put it back in the e80 and it was not recognized again. I could not get it to be recognized for about 4 more open-closing operations & then it worked. Like stated the finalization seemed normal except for the incompatible message. The disc I used was a GQ-R16x. I had used a cleaning disc a few times because of the current reading problems.
At this moment I am dubbing to a TDK16x which did not work at all before the update. I will post the result.

Dubbing and finalization was successfull on TDK using FR mode this time. No error sign. Did you guys try rebooting unit another time? Also I'd like to say the instructions for updating the firmware are a bit strange to say the least.

I've tried many things to make my previously recorded DVD's to work in the E80-no go.

I can take these E80 recorded disks and go to any DVD player (including my computer's DVD player-no problem. SO, if the disks work fine in ALL DVD players EXCEPT the E80, then it has to be has to be the E80. The E80 will record to the hard drive fine, will dub to DVD-Ram disks and the Ram disks will play in my other player (ES20) and my Panasonic DVD standalone player (DVD-S31).

Currently, I am editing programs on the e80's harddrive, dub to a DVD-R, then taking the DVD-R to my ES20 to finalize. Cumbersome but it will work. Sure wish I could "rollback" the upgrade to see if it is problem with the E80's hardware or the firmware upgrade.

Sorry I haven't got back to you folks earlier; I got tied up with some other stuff.

First off, I'd like to thank everyone who's responded to this problem, because the discussion's been very useful.

I read the new posts earlier this evening and have been playing with my machines ever since. I think I have (mostly) good news.

I have about a dozen discs that I've created in the past few days that did not finalize correctly on the E80 (yeah, I had to dig them out of the garbage, too). I took all of these theoretically 'bad' discs and put them in my stand-alone Sampo DVD player; every single one of them played fine. [Okay, I actually only played the first couple minutes, but they look fine.] I then put them in a WinXP PC with a Benq DVD recorder, and they all played fine. Finally, I put them in a Win98SE PC with a LiteOn DVD player, and they all played fine.

I still don't have an explanation for the longer time it takes to finalize, nor the extra beeps and clicks at the end of the finalization process. That aside, the 'unsuccessfully finalized' discs seem to be playing fine on everything except the Panasonic.


More questions / curiousities:

1. Are other folks having the same experience? That discs that 'unsuccessfully' finalize on their firmware-upgraded E80s are rejected by their E80s but accepted by their other DVD players?

2. I'm curious as to whether the problem with recognizing the finalized disc is specific to the E80 or whether discs finalized on the E80 are also problematic on other Panasonics. Would one of the folks who has this problem as well as a newer Panasonic be willing to finalize a disc on their E80? And, assuming it doesn't finalize correctly, then put it in the new Panasonic and see how the new Panasonic reacts to it?

3. If I get time, I hope to call Panasonic's customer service on Tuesday and see if there's a way to wipe the firmware and reinstall an earlier version. In trying to narrow down what's causing the problem, it would be helpful if folks who are having this problem could tell me:
a. have you upgraded your firmware previously? [I had
and I don't know if the problem is specific to
doing an upgrade to an upgrade.]
b. if you have upgraded your firmware, do you happen
to know the date on the file you upgraded from? [If
you still have the upgrade CD, I'd like to know the
file modified date. (I'm still looking for mine.)]
c. since there are known problems with E80s with a
June 2003 manufacture date, could you let me know
if you have one of these machines? [I do, and I
don't know if the firmware upgrade is specific to
this batch of units.] [The manufacture date is on
the rear of the machine next to the power cord.]

Again, thank you all *very* much with your help on this!!


[David, yes, and I'll email you tomorrow!]

--
"Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets and then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again."
-- TV listing for the Wizard of Oz, Marin County Independent-Journal

This was my first update and it was the current file. I did so because the unit was rejecting too many newer type media (more than half).

My unit was made june 2003, what known problems?

I'm going to probably start a thread on these earlier units of what I consider a dangerous flaw in the design of the remote control & how it has damaged my right hand.

I'm going to probably start a thread on these earlier units of what I consider a dangerous flaw in the design of the remote control & how it has damaged my right hand.

I hope you are kidding. The term "frivolous lawsuit" comes to mind. Try periodically switching hands and watch out, that coffee is hot, too. Seriously, please post the problem when you get a chance.

I hope you are kidding. The term "frivolous lawsuit" comes to mind. Try periodically switching hands and watch out, that coffee is hot, too. Seriously, please post the problem when you get a chance.If someone has experienced some problems because of the design of the remote, I think that's worth knowing about. It's not necessarily something to go so far as to sue over, but I for one would like to know if there's an issue.

One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that there are more and more things I wish I'd known about earlier so I'd have had a chance to avoid their effects. Any advance warning is greatly appreciated!

If someone has experienced some problems because of the design of the remote, I think that's worth knowing about. It's not necessarily something to go so far as to sue over, but I for one would like to know if there's an issue.


I was poking fun, obviously, but if you read my entire post, all kidding aside, I encouraged him to post the problem details (precisely because it could be enlightening) - I never said it wasn't worth knowing about.

Re: known problems with June 2003 machines: I'm sorry, I thought this had been covered here. There seemed to have been some problems with some probably-very-small-percentage of the June 2003 machines. Since they only seemed to affect a subset of the machines, and because Panasonic returned one problem unit with a replacement unit instead of the original unit, I have been attributing the problems to manufacturing and quality control problems that were later cleared up.


Details [this is from unreasearched/unprompted memory, but I think it's fairly accurate):

In early 2004, I had a problem burning discs on my recently-purchased E80. Basicly, I would start to record to disc, the machine would cut out, go into Recovery mode, and then reject the disc when it finally came back. I *did* get successful burns, but only about ... I can't remember precisely, I'll guess maybe 50% of the time. The burns failed regardless of whether I was dubbing from the hard drive or recording direct to DVD. Thinking it was the media, I tried different brands -- TY, TDK, Fuji, and Sony. When I hit my fourth unsuccessful brand of discs, I figured it wasn't just bad or somewhat incompatible media.

I posted a message to the Panasonic DVD Recorder Yahoo group (at that time devoted just to the E80) and asked if anyone had had a similar problem. We had two other people come up and say they had exactly the same problem, though with somewhat varying failure rates. They had tried multiple media as well, including Maxell, Ritek, TY, Produsc, etc. Their failure rate did vary slightly with the media, but none of us was happy with the failure rate.

The breakthrough came when a third person came forward and said he'd had the same exact same problem with his machine. He'd returned it to where he bought it and got a replacement unit. I don't know why he mentioned it, but he noted that the unit he had a problem with had a manufacture date of June 2003 and his working-perfectly replacement unit had a manufacture date of September 2003. All three of us with the problem checked the back of our units and they were also manufactured in June 2003. We did a quick poll, and only people with a manufacture date of June 2003 had the problem; everyone else was fine (Sept and up, 2003, were fine; I don't think we ever found anyone with a machine made in July or August 2003, but this wasn't exactly a comprehensive poll, and there might have been other reasons for no units being dated those months).

Two additional people reported their June 2003 units going into Recovery mode if they burnt their discs past the 4gig mark, and two people (one with the 4gig problem and one with the Recovery-mode-at-start problem) also reported random Recovery mode resets during the middle of recording.

That said, the rest of the folks with June 2003 units seemed to have no problems. A couple of us did individually contact Panasonic, who (of course!) said no one else had ever had that problem and it was just the individual making the call who had a problem. Those of us with problematic units either decided to live with it (1; the person who's machine just had 4gig-barrier problems), return it to the vendor (3), or return it to Panasonic (1). My return-to-vendor netted me a second June 2003 model, which worked perfectly. After some period of time that I'm recalling as several weeks (could be wrong about that) the person who returned direct to Panasonic got a unit back with a different serial number. That was in the spring of 2004.

I figure it was a manufacturing and quality control problem at Panasonic because:

1. Panasonic returned a unit with a different serial number. If the problem was with the firmware, I think Panasonic would've identified and fixed it by spring 2004, and returned the original unit to it's owner.

2. If it was a firmware problem, I think more people would've been affected by it. We couldn't identify anything specific that the people who had problems were doing/not-doing that people who didn't have problems weren't doing/not-doing. Okay, at that point, we didn't actually spend a lot of *time* trying to determine the various habits of users, but there was a real short discussion and a couple of others made comments about their habits in passing. I've also learned more about the folks there since then and still can't think of anything one group did different than the other.


Anyway, since my replacement June 2003 machine has been working fine for the past couple of years (well, excluding two times it crashed due to fragmentation problems), I figured I'd ended up with a 'good' unit.

That said, I *do* remain suspicious of the June 2003 machines. Since I now have another problem that a small number of other people also have, I thought I'd see if there were commonalities among the problematic units before I called Panasonic, because I figured that might help Panasonic in tracking down the problem. The only two things I can think of that are odd about my machine are that I've done two previous firmware upgrades to it and that it was made in June 2003, so those are the things that I thought I'd ask other folks here about. Exactly how the manufacture date might be contributing to the problems I'm experiencing, I don't know, but I asked just in case it did turn out to be relevant.

I'll let you folks know what I hear from Panasonic, and thanks again for the help.

I was poking fun, obviously, but if you read my entire post, all kidding aside, I encouraged him to post the problem details (precisely because it could be enlightening) - I never said it wasn't worth knowing about.Yep, I got that. I mostly wanted to encourage him to post with the info...

Just a quick update: I just got off the phone with Panasonic. They said it's not possible to regress the firmware (which I already pretty much knew, but they re-iterated). I asked if it's possible to wipe the current firmware and re-install from one of my previous CDs. He didn't have an answer for that, nor could he immediately find anything matching my problem.

They're going to do some research and get back to me (which would be nice but I'm not holding my breath on). I'll give them a couple of days, then cal them back. I'll keep you folks apprised of what happens.

Thanks guys, I will attempt to tell my story in another thread. Sorry for delay

Perhaps the next update will fix the bugs (or create more :eek: )

Just thankful I can at least transfer off the material from the hd to a disc

Just a quick update while I finish dubbing everything off my hard drive <grimace>.

Over the past couple weeks, I've had several conversations with the nice folks at Panasonic technical support. Most of the stuff we tried didn't work, but I did learn one thing (it may have come up here before, but I don't recall it if it did): if you simultaneously hold depress the Up and Down arrow keys on the console for 7 seconds, the E80 will reset to 'factory settings'. They told me that this would reset my firmware to the original version, but it didn't. What it did do was to delete my current settings for language, time, channels, and timer recordings. None of the programs on my hard drive was affected. I'm not at all sure what use this might be to anyone else, but I pass it on for whatever it's worth.

Panasonic's final answer was that they had no idea what was going on, but it sounded like my optical drive was going bad. I said I wouldn't have a problem accepting that *except* that both dboyd and richardkat got exactly the same result after upgrading their same-model machine with the same firmware file. I'm taking my machine in to a Panasonic-authorized service center in Baltimore. Panasonic said that if it turned out that the problem was caused by the firmware upgrade, then Panasonic would cover it. Otherwise, since my machine is out of warranty, any cost would be my own. Which implies that, if anyone has a unit malfunctioning like this that is still under warranty, that the repair would be covered. (Which, y'know, I'm sure anyone in that situation has already brought their machine in for repair, but I felt like pointing out the obvious <grin>.)

I'll let you guys know what happens, and thanks again for your help.

Okay. First off, it's taken me three weeks longer than I originally thought it would take to reply (and a week longer than my [second] guess at when I'd reply). I apologize for the delay.

Secondly, I do *NOT*, under *ANY* circumstances, recommend dealing with Precision Electronics in Timonium (Baltimore). Their inability to follow instructions cost me $50, and their lax record-keeping kept my recorder in the shop for two weeks longer than it 'should' have been there. Highlights of my experience with them include a tech-guy telling me that he "couldn't be bothered to call Panasonic", and then later yelling at me while I was on the phone with them.

Third, the precise cause of my problem remains unresolved. For others who have this problem, there's still hope for you guys. You can keep reading for details (including a rant about PE) or skip ahead to 'Summary' for the short version.


Okay, so I drop my recorder off at the shop Tuesday the 26th. There's a note detailing the situation plus what I want done attached to the recorder, and I also go over things with the guy who's actually going to be doing the repairs: may be bad firmware upgrade in machine; wipe current firmware, replace with firmware on this CD I give you (the known-good 2/28/05 version), check for finalization. If finalizes okay, Panasonic pays; otherwise I do. *After* changing firmware and checking finalization, please clean, since you'll have it open anyway. He nods in all the right places, and I leave feeling confident.

I call the shop Friday the 30th, speak with someone who says he doesn't know the status of my repair, he'll go talk with the guy. Several minutes later, someone comes on the line; I don't know if it's the guy who worked on the machine or the guy who answered the phone. Guy-on-phone says machine is fixed; I say "Oh, good; so the firmware regression worked, then?" Guy-on-phone says "Yes." Cool, I think; free repair. Shop was closing early that afternoon, so I'll pick it up next week.

Tuesday the third, I stop by the shop to get my machine. Guy brings it out, says $50. I say, "What? You folks said the firmware regression worked; Panasonic's paying." He asks if I have a letter from Panasonic saying that. I say no; he says he can't release the machine without a letter. I say can we call Panasonic now; he says he personally "can't be bothered", but I can use their phone if I like.

Anyway, upshot is the shop says they can't release machine without promissory note/fax from Panasonic. Panasonic says they can't send note/fax without note/fax from shop saying it was the firmware. Shop checks records, which just show that the machine was cleaned, nothing about a firmware change at all; will have to wait for repair guy to come back to determine what actually happened. When is repair guy due back? Two weeks; he's on his honeymoon. But, if I want to pay the $50 now, they'll be happy to let me have the machine and take it up again when he comes back. Fat chance, I think; you 'couldn't be bothered' to call Panasonic when there was a possibility they owed you money, you're not going to be any easier once you *have* been paid. I reluctantly leave the machine with them for two weeks. (It's a not-lovely 45-minute drive to their shop, which doesn't make me happier.)

Come back two weeks later; repair guy is back from honeymoon. I ask what he did; he says he cleaned the machine, changed the firmware, and tested it. After some discussion, I become confused and mildly suspicious and ask the order of repairs; he says cleaning first. We argue a while, but (short version) since he did the cleaning first, there's no way I can possibly prove to Panasonic that the firmware caused the problem.

I reluctantly pay the money to get my machine back. I later call Panasonic to tell them not to expect to pay out on my case, to bitch about the repair shop, and to let them know some folks may be contacting them with similar problems and asking about a firmware upgrade CD.

Firmware upgrade CD? Interesting thing: at one point in the conversation, the repair guy is trying to tell me that I did the 4/13/05 firmware upgrade wrong. Not possible, I say; I've done it on this machine a couple times before and I *know* I did it right. Well, he says, we upgrade these machines every day, and if you'd done the firmware upgrade correctly, then when we put in *our* upgrade, your machine wouldn't have run the upgrade. Waitaminute, say I; firmware upgrade? I *specifically* and *explicitly* said that I wanted the firmware **regressed** to the version on this CD. Oh, he says, we do firmware upgrades automatically, no charge. But, I say, I didn't *want* the firmware upgraded *again*, I wanted it *regressed*. Oh, he says, it's our policy, we do it automatically.

A few minutes more discussion, during which I pretty much realize that this guy simply *does* *NOT* hear what anyone else says and does what he wants regardless of what the instructions are. Since he's the owner and manager, not much I can do about it except bitch to Panasonic (done) and warn other folks to stay away from Precision Electronics in Timonium/Baltimore (also now done).


--------
Summary:

While my machine now finalizes correctly, we don't know precisely what caused it to not-finalize correctly in the first place, so I can't direct any of you with this problem to a known solution. *However*, there *is* a firmware upgrade CD out there (release date 8/30/05) that was applied to my machine and which may -- or may not -- fix your problem. I couldn't talk this repair shop out of a copy of the CD, so I can't personally make the files available, but I presume Panasonic can make whatever arrangements are necessary.

So, if you're having the same problem that I was having –- immediately after applying the 4/13/05 firmware upgrade, my June 2003 E80 wouldn't finalize correctly -- I would suggest calling Panasonic at 1-800-211-7262 and asking after the 8/30/05 firmware upgrade. If it helps at all, my case number was 22916594, and I did warn them that some folks would probably call.

Note: my arrangement with Panasonic was that if it was bad firmware causing the problem, they would pay for changing the firmware; if it was anything else, the entire cost of the repair was mine. However, in dealing with various support folks at Panasonic the past few weeks, it's clear that payment is pretty much at the discretion of the support tech you end up with: a couple of my latter support techs said there wouldn't be payment -- at least until I referred them to the support tech who had said their would be. Luckily, I kept notes on who I talked with and when, and I would suggest others do the same.


I'd like to extend my thanks to the folks on this board for all their help, especially vferrari, for your response to my initial questions; and also to everyone for all the information, especially dboyd and richardkat, who confirmed that it wasn't just my machine acting oddly. And to anyone else with this problem -- good luck!

-- Jean

Jean....I don't have any E-80 problems at this point....it's been a great little performer.

You put a lot of effort into this ....thanks for sharing.

WebScout said:
> I don't have any E-80 problems at this point....it's been a
> great little performer.

I love my E80 and (until I put that one firmware upgrade in) had had no problems with it at all. Now that the firmware's been changed and the machine's been cleaned, I'm having no problems with it again, and I hope it stays that way for a long time! But I must admit that I'm going to be more cautious in the future about changing the O/S ... <grin>

I also strongly suspect that the problem will prove to be limited to June 2003 machines, but I have no proof of that right as yet.


> You put a lot of effort into this ....thanks for sharing.

Well, most-times, I get the benefit of everyone else's advice, and very, very occasionally I get the joy of being first.

And (*cough*) my desire to get my machine working again had absolutely no influence on my efforts (*cough*cough*). But thanks --

Jean

Hello all! I am new to the AVS Forum, but have been keeping an eye on this thread for a few weeks now.

I too own a Panasonic DMR-E80 and have possibly fallen "victim" to this firmware upgrade as well. However, my machine is dated October 2003.

I have for some time (prior to the firmware upgrade installation) have had trouble with my machine reading dvd's on the first try. After several opening/closing of the tray, it would eventually accept it. I had notice a warning on the packaging of my disks, "check your manufacturer website for firmware updates...this disc may cause permanent damage to your recorder...etc." So, I went to the Panasonic website, found and downloaded the firmware and put it on my E80, hoping that this would resolve my problem with the disc reading. My machine has been a total mess ever since.

Similar to Jean, (after the firmware upgrade) my E80 would not play any finalized disc, however the disc could be played in other dvd players. I was not happy with that, but I could live with it since I usually only play the discs in other dvd players. Oh, it will play DVD movies you buy/rent flawlessly, it is just the ones that it burns that will not work.

But now (as of 2 days ago) my E80 will no longer accept any blank dvd-r disc, and on the rare chance I can get it to read one, it will dub for 1 minute and shutdown and go into recover mode. I have tried over 50 disc and have only had the machine to read 2, but both failed during dubbing. Which could be caused by something other than the firmware upgrade, since I was having some problems with disc reading prior.

I called Panasonic today with not much assistance other than they are sending me a copy of the firmware cd. But the rep said that it is the same that is on the website. I even tried to install the firmware cd again (I know I was suppose to throw it away after installing, and I actually did and when I immediately noticed the finalizing problem I retrieved it thinking it may be needed to see what version was installed or something), and now of course the machine will not even read it. The display shows "unsupport". So I really am not expecting the one Panasonic is sending me will work either.

And another discouraging fact is there are no authorized Panasonic service centers in my state. So I really don't know what to do. I really do not what to mail it somewhere to be fixed. What do you suggest? I am actually just considering purchasing another DVR or try recording TV to PC. I have a new computer, I will just have to purchase a TV tuner card.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know about my machine and the similar problems I have had with the same firmware upgrade. I really appreciate being able to read this thread for support. I only wish I would have read it before I installed the firmware. :) The disc reading problem was aggravating, but now I can't use it at all. A lesson well learned. I will definitely do more research next time.

Thanks,
Stephanie

You might be able to find newer firmware at http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/sandd/softwarequery.asp

Search for dmre -- I found dmr-eh50 firmware two revs newer than what's available from www.panasonic.com

I wonder what a newer firmware gets you except for maybe a lot of problems?

I did one upgrade a couple of years ago and that went ok.

After reading these posts...I think I will go with the "if its not broke, dont fix it"
philosophy.

I did spend a great deal of time tring to find the right DVDRs for this machine.

I wanted Discs that would play at the end of a movie ok and also on other machines.
So far the Tiayo Yaden8X seem to be the winners. I get them from SuperMediaStore.

I have tried TDK, Maxell, Riteck, Princo and many others without success.
Some of the GQ discs would even be recognized.

In this respect I think the PANNYs are wanting. I love my E80 but have found it to be sub standard in the area of compatibility.
The 4x discs were pretty good because the burners in these machines are only 2x I believe. Hard to find 4x any more.

Almost sounds like that April firmware upgrade made the machine more persnickity of the media.