Comcast TiVo DVR [Text View] - Page 2

jeffrypennock

09-08-06, 12:06 AM

scanpa,

Do you know anything about Comcast's plans for using Pace Micro Technology set-top boxes? I created a thread asking about it, click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8339831&&#post8339831) to see it, but there were no replies to my question.

Currently, Houston Time Warner Cable offers the Scientific Atlanta 8300 DVRs and I assume Comcast will continue using them when it takes over in early 2007. Houston uses a Motorola head end but implemented an overlay so it could use Scientific Atlanta DVRs. Do you think Comcast will eventually offer the Panasonic DVR and or the Motorola with TiVo software interface in Houston?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

I'll be very interested to see what replies you get to this. I'm like you, I think unique conditions in our market (including how thoroughly TWC has implemented SA tech and hardware) means that there's a REALLY good chance that Comcast won't bring TiVo DVR to Houston, even after they've rolled it out in their other markets...unless it's EXCEPTIONALLY lucrative. In other Comcast markets, I think the ability to upgrade Motorola hardware that's already in the field means that it's an easy choice for Comcast; as long as they charge more than they spend paying for support and TiVo software/service, they cut a profit. But it's not such a cheap prospect here.
Beyond the overlay, while the TiVo software can be installed in a few brands DVR STBs commonly used by cable companies, I've heard (don't know if it's true) that the SA STBs that we've all got can't/won't be upgraded with the TiVo software. So here's where the catch 22 comes in as I see it.
-If TiVo from Comcast proves to be wildly popular in other markets, then the fact that lots of people want it would mean quite a sizable investment in new STBs (which are really expensive for cable companies) would have to be made in order to do a large number of box swaps. In markets that don't have as many SA STBs (i.e., TiVo incompatible STBs) deployed as Houston does, it doesn't really matter whether the TiVo roll out requires a box swap or not because they can use the whole/parts from swapped boxes to repair/refurb cable company TiVo boxes as Comcast TiVo takes over the local DVR market. But not here. Here in Houston, they'd have to buy a bunch of new boxes and they wouldn't have much they could do with those old SA boxes (again, assuming that Comcast TiVo does very well in other markets). While the popularity may make expense regarding the overlay modifications totally worth it, the huge expense in boxes may make it cost prohibitive for Comcast to do in Houston.
-On the other hand, if Comcast TiVo doesn't turn out to be a cash cow for Comcast, I doubt they'd bring it to Houston. While they wouldn't take a big loss in STBs because they wouldn't have to purchase soooo many, that same reduction in people who would buy Comcast TiVo make it not worth the expense to modify overlay, provide local support for the service, etc., in the Houston market.

Like I said, I could be wrong about this, but it just seems intuitive to me that either a really favorable response in other markets or a tepid response in other markets both end up causing Comcast to decide not to bring Comcast TiVo to Houston.

HOWEVER, there is a silver lining for Houstonians, it just comes with a platinum price tag. TWC seems really committed to implementing SDV in their markets for lots of channels (not just for VOD content like most other cable providers); while SDV has its perks (including the potential for infinitely large channel line-ups), it's drawback is that is it renders CableCARD 1.0 products (including the upcoming TiVo Series 3) worthless for digital cable. TWCs infrastructure may (or may not) have spoiled the possibility of us getting Comcast TiVo, but the decision to give Houston to Comcast probably saved us from digital cable being moved over to SDV in the knick of time (because Comcast hasn't shown any interest in switching their digital cable markets over to SDV for content other than VOD content). I don't think we've ever gotten an official confirmation that the TWC-Comcast Houston announcement resulted in a subsequent abandoning of the plans to put Houston's digital channels on SDV, and while this is confirmation I'd sure like to get that confirmation, I'm reasonably comfortable making assuming that's the case because: 1) Comcast doesn't seem to be that interested in that kind of SDV; 2) it wasn't at all clear (it won't be until it gets tested in court) that TWC's SDV designs are legal (current legislation and federal policy does require that large cable companies support CableCARD).
So, if it's HD TiVo that you want, and you've got an extra $800 laying around, then you could be in luck very soon (the TiVo S3 is expected any day now). There are a few pluses and minuses of an S3 vs Comcast TiVo. The two biggies in my mind are that if the few channels/services that Comcast does put on SDV are really important to you (like VOD or premium sports league subscription passes like NBA league pass or MLS Direct Kick), than switching to CableCARD/S3 may be a big loss for you. On the other hand, the S3 will (at some point) be expandable as it has a port for the addition of external storage drives whereas the cable company STBs that support TiVo software do not have the expansion ports (based on what we hear through the grapevine) and have what feel sheepishly small internal storage (particularly when you start saving those large files from HD programming). Also, the S3 may or may not have more broadband and networking options than the Comcast TiVo STBs but we don't know for sure which networking/TiVoToGo/etc features either one will have right now so we don't know how large or significant of a discrepancy that will end up being.

I know your initial post wasn't directed at me and I didn't directly address your head end-over lay question, but I thought I put this up here anyway and I'm curious what other responses people post.

scanpa

09-08-06, 11:09 AM

RussB

09-08-06, 12:41 PM

scanpa

09-08-06, 05:28 PM

Thanks for the replies jeffrypennock and scanpa.

scanpa,

After reviewing some of the Comcast threads, It looks like Comcast will offer 3 types of DVRs in your area:
1) Motorola
2) Motorola with TiVo interface software
3) Panasonic with OCAP software

Is this correct?

Is it Comcast's goal to use OCAP software at all its cable systems? If a cable system uses OCAP software, will it offer the Panasonic DVR?

Yes, However the 64xx & 34xx are also OCAP capable.

Pretty Soon, everything in the cable industry will be based on OCAP specs. OCAP is the future from everything I have read and been told..

aegisx

09-08-06, 06:52 PM

Hoping the Tivo software will come early to SE PA. I would definatly pay 17.99 or even 20 a month for the dvr + tivo.

scanpa

09-08-06, 10:07 PM

Hoping the Tivo software will come early to SE PA. I would definatly pay 17.99 or even 20 a month for the dvr + tivo.

If any of the cable plants / Headends in SE or SC PA get it it, then it will be in the next 109 Days. :D

aegisx

09-09-06, 09:52 AM

I'm just suprised there really isn't any advertising for it. If I didn't look at these forums I would have never known.

scanpa

09-09-06, 12:38 PM

I'm just suprised there really isn't any advertising for it. If I didn't look at these forums I would have never known.

The only thing I saw on TV was on a Business show and they mentioned the contract signing between Comcast & TiVo.

Comcast needs to work on a better PR team for sure.

munangst

09-10-06, 09:58 PM

I'm just suprised there really isn't any advertising for it. If I didn't look at these forums I would have never known.

What would be the point of Comcast advertising a product that isn't available yet? They already have a DVR product that they are selling now. The only thing that would happen if they started advertising the TiVo-based DVR as "coming soon" is that some people might decide to wait for it to come out rather than subscribing or upgrading to DVR now. No sense in that...they'd rather have people subscribe now to the current product, and then upgrade when they roll out the new TiVo-based service. It's basic marketing...don't advertise a new product before it's available if it's going to cannibalize your current sales.

bobby94928

09-10-06, 11:34 PM

What would be the point of Comcast advertising a product that isn't available yet? They already have a DVR product that they are selling now. The only thing that would happen if they started advertising the TiVo-based DVR as "coming soon" is that some people might decide to wait for it to come out rather than subscribing or upgrading to DVR now. No sense in that...they'd rather have people subscribe now to the current product, and then upgrade when they roll out the new TiVo-based service. It's basic marketing...don't advertise a new product before it's available if it's going to cannibalize your current sales.

and considering it's a firmware upgrade not a hardware upgrade it's a slam dunk.

scanpa

09-11-06, 03:08 PM

and considering it's a firmware upgrade not a hardware upgrade it's a slam dunk.

It's a Software update, but there will be a Firmware update also with new Hardware Drivers.

;)

09-13-06, 04:31 PM

I was eagerly awaiting the announcement of the Tivo Series 3. My thought was that the Comcast Tivo software on the Mortorola boxes would be feature poor compared with what Tivo would offer on the Series 3. In particular I expected Comcast would probably not allow Tivo to offer file transfers off the box.

In fact, because of Cablelabs DRM issues, the Series 3 has no TivotoGo, Multi Room Viewing, or external disk support at least for now.

In fact for cable only users (who don't need over the air tuners) it's looking to me like there may not be much difference between the feature set on Comcast/Tivo compared with the Series 3. Arguably, the Comcast/Tivo may be more functional because of VOD viewing. It certainly makes me wonder if the $800 premium for Series 3 is worth it.

Of course this assumes that the present {3,6}412 issues are not unsolvable hardware limitations, and that Tivo has done a better job than the Iguide people.

--

By the way, the Series 3 requires at least one Cablecard to properly use even the unencrypted QAM channels, and will disable the second tuner unless it has two cablecards. What will Comcast charge for 2 cablecards on accounts who retain the bundled STB that comes with the digital package and are just adding on a Series 3?

QZ1

09-13-06, 06:16 PM

By the way, the Series 3 requires at least one Cablecard to properly use even the unencrypted QAM channels, and will disable the second tuner unless it has two cablecards. What will Comcast charge for 2 cablecards on accounts who retain the bundled STB that comes with the digital package and are just adding on a Series 3?
I read that there were CC v.1 'M-Cards' (Multistream), and this would be an option, in addition to being able to use two CCs, is this not true?

Since the two CCs are married to the same DVR they sould both be nominally free, if they replace the included STB in Digital tiers. In reality, it costs you $5.

Now if you keep the STB and add the CCs, you now have an A/O (adtl. outlet), and it depends on what programming you want to mirror on the A/O, to determine the A/O fee, if any.

If you don't specify, from what I gather, they mirror everything from the primary outlet on the A/O.

See this post for a full explanation:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8343853&&#post8343853

ManWithAPlan

09-13-06, 06:31 PM

I ordered my Series 3 Tivo yesterday, it arrives Friday, as does my Comcast tech between 3-5pm :-) He is bringing 2 cable cards, it will be free for the first one, the 2nd is 2.75 per month. They are both Cablecard 1.0 cards, not Multistream, as Comcast claims they do not yet have Multistream cards. Since the first one is free anyway, I don't really care that I have to have 2 cards, it will only be 2.75/month total. Of course, the Tivo service is about 12.95/month on top of that, but vs. getting a motorola STB it is really only a net net difference of about 3 bucks a month.

I can live with 3 bucks a month for all the Tivo functionality that I have been missing from DirecTiVo. Yes, some of the features aren't immediately available like TivoToGo and MRV, but I trust they will be added very soon, especially the E-SATA drive capability, something Tivo knows is HUGE for us power users.

I will let ya know how it is, it will be up and fully operational by Friday night if all goes well. I will then call DirecTV and tell them where to go, enjoying my better HD picture quality and a great Media Recorder with the Series 3.

YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!!!!!

bfdtv

09-13-06, 06:33 PM

I read that there were CC v.1 'M-Cards' (Multistream), and this would be an option, in addition to being able to use two CCs, is this not true?
It's true, but Comcast won't have multistream cards in stock before late October.

What will Comcast charge for 2 cablecards on accounts who retain the bundled STB that comes with the digital package and are just adding on a Series 3?
You shouldn't be charged for any, if the Series3 is your only box. A digital cable subscription from Comcast includes the first TV outlet for free -- it's your choice whether you get a standard set-top box or CableCard(s). If you already have a cable box or dvr from Comcast, make it clear that you would like to trade it in for a CableCard.

Note the first outlet is included in the digital cable subscription, so technically it is not free -- you're already paying for it with digital cable. Some Comcast systems list it as a line item and others do not.

If you want to keep your existing cable box, you won't be entitled to a free outlet (with CableCards). In that case, your Comcast division may charge an outlet fee for the Series3. You should still only have to pay for one card. Of course, not all cable company representatives will understand that the Series3 takes two cards, because every previous CableCard product was limited to one card. The cost of two CableCards for one TV is different than the cost of one CableCard for each of two different TVs.

Within a few weeks, I expect more customer service reps will grasp that the Series3 requires two CableCards for full functionality (at least until multistream cards are available later this year).

Renagade

09-13-06, 09:23 PM

It's true, but Comcast won't have multistream cards in stock before late October.

You shouldn't be charged for any, if the Series3 is your only box. A digital cable subscription from Comcast includes the first TV outlet for free -- it's your choice whether you get a standard set-top box or CableCard(s). If you already have a cable box or dvr from Comcast, make it clear that you would like to trade it in for a CableCard.

Note the first outlet is included in the digital cable subscription, so technically it is not free -- you're already paying for it with digital cable. Some Comcast systems list it as a line item and others do not.

If you want to keep your existing cable box, you won't be entitled to a free outlet (with CableCards). In that case, your Comcast division may charge an outlet fee for the Series3. You should still only have to pay for one card. Of course, not all cable company representatives will understand that the Series3 takes two cards, because every previous CableCard product was limited to one card. The cost of two CableCards for one TV is different than the cost of one CableCard for each of two different TVs.

Within a few weeks, I expect more customer service reps will grasp that the Series3 requires two CableCards for full functionality (at least until multistream cards are available later this year).

Will multistream cards be compatible with current generation TV's or will new hardware (TV's) be needed?

bfdtv

09-13-06, 10:58 PM

Will multistream cards be compatible with current generation TV's or will new hardware (TV's) be needed?You can stick a multistream card in a current TV but it won't give you anything extra. Current HDTVs feature just one QAM tuner.

The Tivo Series3 is the first CableCard product to incorporate multiple tuners for digital cable.

R. Kalia

09-17-06, 05:32 PM

Comcast COO, 9/13/06: "on track for co-branded TiVo service later this year"

http://www.tvpredictions.com/nextburke091306.htm

Savman

09-17-06, 08:11 PM

If any of the cable plants / Headends in SE or SC PA get it it, then it will be in the next 109 Days. :D
With that and this
http://www.tvpredictions.com/nextburke091306.htm
in mind.
I know you have no earthly idea, but do you think the Tivo software will be released before the VRN guide now? I'm betting it will for some reason.

scanpa

09-17-06, 09:15 PM

With that and this
http://www.tvpredictions.com/nextburke091306.htm
in mind.
I know you have no earthly idea, but do you think the Tivo software will be released before the VRN guide now? I'm betting it will for some reason.

in the next 90 days, it should begin a lmtd. roll-out. the next IGUIDE w/ full VRN & Mosaic has been delayed till 2007 for Roll-Out.

Savman

09-17-06, 09:27 PM

in the next 90 days, it should begin a lmtd. roll-out. the next IGUIDE w/ full VRN & Mosaic has been delayed till 2007 for Roll-Out.

" "it" should begin a lmtd. roll-out."

Which "it" are you referring to, the TIVO or VRN? And do you think people may see VRN late 07' or mid-07? It would be nice to see it pop up during my extended summer break next year.(which last from May to September).

scanpa

09-18-06, 10:53 AM

" "it" should begin a lmtd. roll-out."

Which "it" are you referring to, the TIVO or VRN? And do you think people may see VRN late 07' or mid-07? It would be nice to see it pop up during my extended summer break next year.(which last from May to September).

Comcast TiVo DVR Software.

09-18-06, 11:05 AM

Comcast TiVo DVR Software.

Any info on a feature list yet?

Presumably TTG and MRV are out as they are on the Series 3 Tivo. What about other features like remote scheduling? Will the ethernet be active?

bicker1

09-18-06, 02:55 PM

No, no info on a feature list yet, afaik.

scanpa

09-18-06, 06:16 PM

But soon! Some Sr. Comcast team members are do to visit all of the Head-Ends located in central PA, sometime in the next 2 weeks, for some sort of Training.....

clemon79

09-19-06, 12:13 AM

Presumably TTG and MRV are out as they are on the Series 3 Tivo. What about other features like remote scheduling? Will the ethernet be active?
That would be a dealbreaker for me, I think. I use TTG and TivoBack both. They may not be on the Series 3 now, but I bet they will be before too long, simply because former Series 2 owners won't stand for it.

cheer

09-19-06, 07:13 AM

That would be a dealbreaker for me, I think. I use TTG and TivoBack both. They may not be on the Series 3 now, but I bet they will be before too long, simply because former Series 2 owners won't stand for it.
Since the roadblock on the Series 3 is CableLabs and not Tivo, whether former Series 2 owners will or will not stand for it is likely beside the point.

bicker1

09-19-06, 08:07 AM

That would be a dealbreaker for me, I think. I use TTG and TivoBack both. They may not be on the Series 3 now, but I bet they will be before too long, simply because former Series 2 owners won't stand for it.What are they going to do, once they've purchased the Series 3? I think that's why it is essential that folks not purchase the Series 3 counting on features to be provided later, without a written guarantee from TiVo to that effect -- a money back guarantee if not satisfied, just like LL Bean.

JStanton

09-19-06, 08:38 AM

What are they going to do, once they've purchased the Series 3? I think that's why it is essential that folks not purchase the Series 3 counting on features to be provided later, without a written guarantee from TiVo to that effect -- a money back guarantee if not satisfied, just like LL Bean.

Again, TiVo cannot provide this guarantee. CableLabs is preventing them from offering these features.

You not buying a TiVo doesn't cause CableLabs any pain at all - and likely is what they'd prefer, as this keeps the MSOs getting rental income for the boxes, protects PPV revenue, and prevents them from having to deal with the CableCards (which, for whatever reason, they seems to hate dealing with.)

09-19-06, 09:09 AM

That would be a dealbreaker for me, I think. I use TTG and TivoBack both. They may not be on the Series 3 now, but I bet they will be before too long, simply because former Series 2 owners won't stand for it.

My guess is that ultimately for the Series 3, Tivo and Cablelabs will come to an agreement similar to the "Image Constraint Token" imposed on the HDDVD players, which degrades the resolution of the output on a unsecure port at the option of the copyright holder. That output would be similar in resolution to that available from the Series 2, and would be more than sufficient for display on the portable devices that TTG is targeted at.

I'm less confident that the Comcast Tivo will have any form of TTG.

Just a guess.

R. Kalia

09-19-06, 05:49 PM

deleted

bicker1

09-20-06, 12:39 PM

Again, TiVo cannot provide this guarantee.Of course they "can" if customer satisfaction was as high a priority for them as it is for LL Bean. LL Bean cannot guarantee that you won't become dissatisfied with the $1200 kayak you purchase, yet without the manufacturer's intercession, LL Bean has no problem guaranteeing you a full refund of the price if you become dissatisfied.

The reality is either one or both of the following are true (I'm betting on BOTH): (1) There isn't sufficient profit incentive to provide that level of customer service to us ingrates who love television, and (2) TiVo doesn't have enough money -- doesn't make enough profit -- so as to be able to afford to offer an unconditional satisfaction guarantee.

JakiChan

09-21-06, 12:35 AM

Of course they "can" if customer satisfaction was as high a priority for them as it is for LL Bean. LL Bean cannot guarantee that you won't become dissatisfied with the $1200 kayak you purchase, yet without the manufacturer's intercession, LL Bean has no problem guaranteeing you a full refund of the price if you become dissatisfied.

Except that there's one slight problem - LL Bean has full control over the design of that Kayak. It's not like there is some Kayak Labs that is telling what features they can and can't do.

However, that's exactly what is happening with TiVo. They spent the money to put the code on the box. It's in there, according to them. They just need to get Cable Labs permission to turn it on. If they piss of Cable Labs then there goes the certification. And without the Certification they won't give you your cable cards. And then what good is your S3?

JakiChan

09-21-06, 12:40 AM

I'm still thinking about buying an S3. One reason is that it still has more storage than a 6412 III even with the TiVo software. Also the THX cert seems to make a difference - folks are reporting much better image quality vs the Comcast box. And I think I trust Tivo to do DVR right, especially when they control the hardware and software. But I dunno...that's a pretty stiff premium. Can anyone think of other reasons to get the S3 over a 6412 III with Tivo software?

bicker1

09-21-06, 07:40 AM

Except that there's one slight problem - LL Bean has full control over the design of that Kayak. It's not like there is some Kayak Labs that is telling what features they can and can't do.Actually, that's not true, but it doesn't matter. A locality could pass an ordinance next year that requires certain safety equipment be on all sea kayaks, and LL Bean would take back kayaks that don't comply. That's 100% absolutely parallel to the TiVo/Cable Labs situation.

Can anyone think of other reasons to get the S3 over a 6412 III with Tivo software?Not a one. There are several consderations when comparing the Motorola box versus the TiVo box: TiVo wins on user-interface; Motorola wins on price, handling of box failures, avoiding the whole CableCard mess. Put the user-interface in the Motorola box, even if it isn't 100% the same, and the Motorola box goes from being a better choice to being a much better choice IMHO.

JakiChan

09-21-06, 10:24 AM

Actually, that's not true, but it doesn't matter. A locality could pass an ordinance next year that requires certain safety equipment be on all sea kayaks, and LL Bean would take back kayaks that don't comply. That's 100% absolutely parallel to the TiVo/Cable Labs situation.

No it's not, for manhy reasons. One is that such a law would grandfather in existing kayaks, that's a case of being required to add something, not being required to remove something. Finally, you're comparing something with no moving parts to a very complex electronic device and you want them to take it back whenever, even when they don't make it anymore? You wan them to take back an S1 and give you a new S3 for free? I guess you want them to go out of business.

Face it, Tivo is giving you a list of features and telling you what they are. You don't have to buy it if you don't like the feature set. Tivo says they may be able to add the features if Cable Labs will let them. It's no where near as bad as Apple for example who rolls out new software features and refuses to give them to users with older devices.

Not a one. There are several consderations when comparing the Motorola box versus the TiVo box: TiVo wins on user-interface; Motorola wins on price, handling of box failures, avoiding the whole CableCard mess. Put the user-interface in the Motorola box, even if it isn't 100% the same, and the Motorola box goes from being a better choice to being a much better choice IMHO.

Well, if you say not a one then you either are way biased or didn't think about it. I can name one right off th etop - storage. The Tivo holds way more. Secondly have you even worked with any of the Motorola boxes? My Motorola box experience has been horrible....locks up, reboots, and is basically unreliable. I'm gonna stay up to watch Grey's Anatomy tonight because I can't trust it to record anything. I haven't heard of anyone with a Tivo product having nearly as much trouble as I've had and that's got nothing to do with the interface software.

Talk about putting a dress on a pig...

R. Kalia

09-21-06, 02:18 PM

TiVo wins on user-interface; Motorola wins on price, handling of box failures, avoiding the whole CableCard mess. Put the user-interface in the Motorola box, even if it isn't 100% the same, and the Motorola box goes from being a better choice to being a much better choice IMHO.
One more advantage for S3: easy to put in a larger internal hard drive (and you have the right to do it since you own the box). If you can't prepare the drive yourself, weaknees.com is already selling preloaded 750GB drives, you just have to do the physical installation.

A 120/160GB drive is basically a joke for HD recording. It works for now only because there is so little HD worth recording.

mcamden

09-21-06, 02:49 PM

bicker1

09-22-06, 07:57 AM

No it's notI take it that you disagree with me. That's okay. Your arguments against aren't convincing for me (probably like my arguments for aren't convincing for you.) The simple fact of the matter is that companies that place a heavy emphasis on satisfying customers do offer unconditional satisfaction guarantees. TiVo has chosen not to. That does indicate that they're unwilling to stand behind their products as much as, say, LL Bean does.

Keep in mind that I didn't say TiVo has to offer this. I'm saying they didn't. I'm saying that that means that the satisfaction of their customers doesn't means as much to them as it does to LL Bean. Maybe that's because TiVo is a small company and cannot afford to take such risk onto themselves. I'll buy that. However, it doesn't obviate the fact itself.

Well, if you say not a one then you either are way biased or didn't think about it. Or, perhaps I disagree with you. Just like the poster who I was replying to.

You mentioned storage: For less money than the S3, I could have three Motorola cable boxes in the house. Regardless, I did the math: The (one) Motorola has enough storage for my needs. Extra storage provides me no added value.

Secondly have you even worked with any of the Motorola boxes?Of course. I have one. It is replaced my TiVo as my primary DVR.

bicker1

09-22-06, 07:59 AM

I think the reliability issue would be the most important. I'm on my fourth Moto 6412 in a year. I had a HD DirecTivo for two years and a standalone Tivo for almost three without a single hardware related issue.When my TiVo broke, I had to pay to have it fixed, and I was without my TiVo for a week. When I got my Motorola, no one knew how to turn on the Closed Captioning, so we thought the box was broken. I turned it in for another one, no questions asked. Anything ever goes wrong with the Motorola, 10 minutes later I can have a new one. No cost. No questions asked.

JakiChan

09-22-06, 12:08 PM

I take it that you disagree with me.

I don't disagree with your anaolgy as much as I say it's incorrect.

The simple fact of the matter is that companies that place a heavy emphasis on satisfying customers do offer unconditional satisfaction guarantees.

Other than LL Bean (who makes nothing I'd ever buy) can you name another company that offers no-questions-asked lifetime money back refunds? Furthermore can you name ANY technology company that does that? Apple is pretty well known for their customer satisfaction and they do the exact opposite.

I'm saying that that means that the satisfaction of their customers doesn't means as much to them as it does to LL Bean. Maybe that's because TiVo is a small company and cannot afford to take such risk onto themselves. I'll buy that. However, it doesn't obviate the fact itself.

The only "fact" is that yes, TiVo doesn't offer an unconditional lifetime moneyback guarantee. Neither does anyone else in technology. Construing that in to not caring about customer satisfaction is illogical. In addition it shows a lack of thought, because how could ANY technology company survive with such a policy?

"Hey, Apple, I'm dissatisfied in this 20GB iPod I bought for $499 back in 2002. Please give me back my $499 so I can go buy an 80GB iPod now at $349. Oh, and BTW, do the same thing for the PowerBook G4 667Mhz I bought and replace it with a 2GHz MacBookPro."

You mentioned storage: For less money than the S3, I could have three Motorola cable boxes in the house.

I only have one HDTV. First of all programming 3 devices (since they share codes) would be a huge PITA. Secondly in order to hook all 3 up to my TV I'd need a switch, and the only one that would do what I need costs over $500. Yeah, that saves *so* much money....

It just seem to me that by completely dismissing the idea that the the TiVo might be better in some ways than the Comcast box shows a pretty strong bias against the company. I can understand if it's not for you, that's fine. But to say it has no advantages over the Moto boxes is just ignoring the facts.

Of course. I have one. It is replaced my TiVo as my primary DVR.

You must have had better luck with it than I've had with mine. I watched Grey's Anatomy live last night because I couldn't trust that the recording would play back. And it still locked up. I missed the first 5 minutes of ER rebooting the box. I'll go replace it, AGAIN, this weekend.

ZipperSeven

09-25-06, 01:43 PM

scanpa

09-25-06, 01:53 PM

Does anybody know (scanpa maybe?) if TiVo on the Moto boxes will have the same network features as a Series2/3?

What I'm asking for specifically, I guess, is whether or not it will support TiVo to go and the remote scheduling?

Really, thats the one thing right now keeping me from buying an S3, is the thought (dream perhaps) that the Moto might support this without me having to actually purchase new hardware.

Comcast was working on a Remote access via the WWW to program the DVR STB, however I have not heard anything about those plans since about 1 year ago. Seems to have gone on the back burner just like the Comcast Home Media Center plans.

No info on the TiVo Features have been given out yet regarding the TiVo Software upgrade for the /\/\otorola DCT-34xx & 64xx STB.

Comcast is busy pushing CDV as it's top priority for the time being.

mhaider

09-25-06, 02:00 PM

Comcast is busy pushing CDV as it's top priority for the time being.

What is CDV?

scanpa

09-25-06, 02:06 PM

What is CDV?

Comcast Digital Voice

ZipperSeven

09-25-06, 02:53 PM

OK thanks scanpa.

I was kinda hoping that by getting TiVo software, they'd kinda port across all the cool features. Looks like I might have to start scraping together nickels and dimes. :(

cherry ghost

09-25-06, 03:02 PM

OK thanks scanpa.

I was kinda hoping that by getting TiVo software, they'd kinda port across all the cool features. Looks like I might have to start scraping together nickels and dimes. :(

Other than remote scheduling, the S3 doesn't have those cool features either.

ZipperSeven

09-25-06, 03:31 PM

Other than remote scheduling, the S3 doesn't have those cool features either.

No TiVo to go?

jeffrypennock

09-25-06, 03:43 PM

No TiVo to go or MRV. DRM currently prohibits it. But word on the street is that TiVo is working on fixing that (however, TiVo also said that window button on our S2's would do something one day, so I wouldn't hold my breath). It does currently have remote scheduling and (as mentioned above) there is every intention to support remote scheduling for the TiVo from Comcast.
Based on the rumor mill, here's the ComcastTiVo vs S3:
S3:
+ currently available
+ pretty decent storage size (probably bigger than what you'll be able to store on the Comcast boxes...although Comcast may get bigger boxes)
+ WILL be expandable in the future with external drives (they swear it will)

ComcastTiVo:
+VOD/SDV compatible
+no CableCARD drama
Edit: +$800 in your pocket

ZipperSeven

09-25-06, 04:20 PM

Well crapsicles.

I really can't get a break with this can I?

Tybee

09-25-06, 06:04 PM

ComcastTiVo:
+VOD/SDV compatible
+no CableCARD drama

You forgot "$800 in your pocket." ;)

jeffrypennock

09-25-06, 06:07 PM

You forgot "$800 in your pocket." ;)
Good point

dalilama

09-25-06, 06:33 PM

Based on the rumor mill, here's the ComcastTiVo vs S3:
S3:
+ currently available
+ pretty decent storage size (probably bigger than what you'll be able to store on the Comcast boxes...although Comcast may get bigger boxes)
+ WILL be expandable in the future with external drives (they swear it will)

ComcastTiVo:
+VOD/SDV compatible
+no CableCARD drama
Edit: +$800 in your pocket

Since all cable providers have to provide a 1394 conenction on their STBs, would that be another plus?

moyekj

09-25-06, 07:04 PM

bigglare

09-26-06, 09:40 AM

Since all cable providers have to provide a 1394 conenction on their STBs, would that be another plus?

[deleted by mod]

S3 Tivo ($800)+ Rabbit Ears for 12 months (0.00) + Tivo Service ($13) X 12 months = $956

Gimme Tivo

HD Rookie

09-26-06, 09:45 AM

I thought that firewire was enabled and working on the motorola dvr boxes???

scanpa

09-26-06, 10:16 AM

I thought that firewire was enabled and working on the motorola dvr boxes???

Yes it is active.

slightlyjaded

09-26-06, 11:08 AM

scanpa

09-26-06, 11:35 AM

Hey, I'm a recently converted Comcast believer. (Had Comcast for a year, switched to DirecTV last week, had to switch back because the HD quality was so god-awful.)

Two questions:

1. My installer assured me that Comcast will be offering a new Tivo box (new hardware, not just a software update) in January. Did he just not know what he was talking about, or is it possible that they are rolling something like this out? (I'm in Ann Arbor, Michigan, btw.)

2. Regardless of the answer to question 1, does Comcast have ANYTHING in the works that will provide a bigger hard drive for HD DVR users? 15 hours of HD storage is just WAAAY too small.

Thanks in advance.

1)

Comcast & TiVo wrote some DVR code to enhance the Motorola DCT series of STB DVR software.

When it is released later this year, it will be a Software download to the current Motorola DCT 64xx & 34xx STB for a additional Fee.

2)

Right now Comcast offers

Motorola DCT 6412p3 & DCT 3412p1 STB w/ 120 gb HDD
Motorola DCT 6416p3 & DCT 3416p1 & p2 STB w/ 160 gb HDD
Soon they will be offering a Panasonic HD DVR STB w/ 250 gb HDD

as for external HDD space: None due to DRM software problems with the Motorola DCT series of STB.

slightlyjaded

09-26-06, 11:53 AM

mazman49

09-26-06, 12:08 PM

Soon they will be offering a Panasonic HD DVR STB w/ 250 gb HDD

Do we know if the Tivo software will run on the Panasonic HD DVR?

scanpa

09-26-06, 01:31 PM

Do we know if the Tivo software will run on the Panasonic HD DVR?

No, it is only being coded for Motorola DCT STB Series. (For Now Any Way!)

There has been no mention of TiVo based software on the Panasonic STB as of yet.

scanpa

09-26-06, 01:33 PM

However, outside of the comcast rumor mill, it has been heard that the soon to be rolled out pace SD DVR will be able to download a compatable Comcast-TiVo based DVR Software in mid 2007

scanpa

09-26-06, 01:37 PM

One other question: Is the 6416/3416 available only in select areas? Just called Comcast and they said they don't have it available here. Is this a new product that they're in the process of rolling out?

Not sure how big of a difference an extra 40 gig would make, but every little bit helps...

Correct, Motorola is now sending Comcast the DCT-6416p3 & DCT-3416p1 & P2 STB models as the older ones get replaced. There will not be very many of them, as the contract for new Moto STB of the DCT series has ended. Now only units sent back for replacement, will get the newer model returned.

slightlyjaded

09-26-06, 02:29 PM

Correct, Motorola is now sending Comcast the DCT-6416p3 & DCT-3416p1 & P2 STB models as the older ones get replaced. There will not be very many of them, as the contract for new Moto STB of the DCT series has ended. Now only units sent back for replacement, will get the newer model returned.

So are you saying that if I call Comcast and say there's something wrong with my box and I need a replacement, they'll give me the 6416?

Or is this replacement only occurring when Comcast itself when Comcast sends a 6412 back to Motorola for replacment?

Thanks again.

ZipperSeven

09-26-06, 02:38 PM

Yeah, I need to swap my box out. I have an OG phase I box. I just checked it last night.

Doesn't surprise me though, we were part of the soft rollout here.

scanpa

09-26-06, 03:59 PM

So are you saying that if I call Comcast and say there's something wrong with my box and I need a replacement, they'll give me the 6416?

Or is this replacement only occurring when Comcast itself when Comcast sends a 6412 back to Motorola for replacment?

Thanks again.

No, if you tell comcast there is something wrong with your box, they will replace it with whatever is available in the stockpile. Then the bad STB will be tagged and sent to someone like me, who will test it and report it to my boss if it needs to be sent back to Moto and replaced or if it worth and able to be repaired. (something very low cost...) Repairs are very rare though. They just swap it out with Moto for a new box to replace it in the Headend's STB Stockpile that is sent to each Local office or Tech Field Office.

rob316

09-26-06, 04:03 PM

I called Comcast because I wanted the 3412 in my bedroom all I told them is that my 6412 kept powering off by itself and that I wanted it replaced with a 3412 they are coming Thursday with the 3412 box very easy.

rob

Bruce Blakeslee

09-27-06, 10:39 AM

So are you saying that if I call Comcast and say there's something wrong with my box and I need a replacement, they'll give me the 6416?

No need to fib. I called comcast yesterday afternoon and asked to have my 6412 replaced with a 3416 just because I felt like it. They immediatly agreed and asked me if I wanted to go to the office and exchange it that evening or did I want someone to come to the house. I went to the office. No questions asked. Very pleasent service rep at the office and I went home with a new 3416.

This is the beauty of renting the box and not owning it.

I may do the same when the Pany box comes out.

Tybee

09-27-06, 01:23 PM

Yeah, I actually requested a 6412 P3 box when I made the service call (not knowing the 3416 was available). The rep made a not on the service order, which I later found out read "Requests Ver. 3 STB." The tech read that to mean a 3416, so I kind of got lucky in that respect.

GadgetGav

09-27-06, 09:54 PM

I just got a 3412 last Saturday and I asked the tech about the Tivo software. He said he'd never heard of it. He also didn't know anything about Comcast doing a deal with Tivo. Is that the standard line they give everyone, or did I just get a new guy who was still wet behind the ears? I'm in MA... Will we get the Tivo software?
Also, does anyone know if MA has 3416 boxes?? I'm shocked coming from upgraded Tivos at how quickly this 3412 is filling up. I know there's no chance of adding storage to the box, so my only hope is one with a bit more built in from the start...

scanpa

09-27-06, 10:07 PM

Tybee

09-27-06, 10:18 PM

GadgetGav

09-28-06, 07:13 AM

Except in the Beta test markets no one has gotten the field level training on the TiVo Software. Some of the field techs and contractor install techs have about as much info on comcast as the CSR's.

Training is not very good at comcast.

:(
But it will happen in all markets? From what I've read (mainly from your posts - thanks) the roll out is by the end of this year. That would be ideal timing for me so that I can decide whether to get in on the re-up lifetime offer from Tivo. At the moment the Comcast box is looking good enough, and with Tivo software, it will probably be an even better fit. The only downside is storage space.

Joe_M

09-28-06, 08:38 AM

as for external HDD space: None due to DRM software problems with the Motorola DCT series of STB.

Not allowing external HD's is totally absurd. The connections are there. They should be making the most of them. If they don't want to allow additional drives, they should at least offer a larger drive. 250GB should be the bare minimum for an HD DVR.

slightlyjaded

09-28-06, 11:18 AM

No need to fib. I called comcast yesterday afternoon and asked to have my 6412 replaced with a 3416 just because I felt like it. They immediatly agreed and asked me if I wanted to go to the office and exchange it that evening or did I want someone to come to the house. I went to the office. No questions asked. Very pleasent service rep at the office and I went home with a new 3416.

This is the beauty of renting the box and not owning it.

I may do the same when the Pany box comes out.

So I had called Comcast a couple days ago to inquire about the 3416/6416, and was told there were none in my area yet. After reading your post though, I decided to try one more time.

This time, I didn't ask for information, just said I'd like to replace my 6412 box with a 3416 or 6416. They said Sure, no problem, go into the local office and they'll replace it for you. Even checked their inventory, and they DO actually have them in stock.

Amazing...

Well, that's another five hours of HD recording space on the DVR at least...

Anything else I should know about the 3416/6416? Any particular bugs or functionality that's worse/different from the 6412? (I know it uses HDMI instead of DVI, which is fine.)

slightlyjaded

09-28-06, 11:27 AM

Sorry to be a pest, I really appreciate your input.

I understand the difference between the 64xx and 34xx is that the 34series is only digital.

Is there a way to find out if my region (Ann Arbor, MI) is all digital, i.e., I won't lose any channels when I switch from the 6412 to the new box, if it's a 3416?

Or can I assume that any box my local office carries is capable of receiving all the channels here?

Thanks again for all your help and insight.

Bruce Blakeslee

09-28-06, 11:38 AM

slightlyjaded

09-28-06, 11:50 AM

It all seems so logical...

So in your experience with the thing, have you noticed any differences between the boxes other than the extra HD capacity?

Tybee

09-28-06, 12:50 PM

It all seems so logical...

So in your experience with the thing, have you noticed any differences between the boxes other than the extra HD capacity?

Yeah, this one actually works like it's supposed to. ;)

slightlyjaded

09-28-06, 02:06 PM

Tybee

09-28-06, 03:26 PM

I ask because, digging around the forums, it appears that some people have claimed the picture quality of the SD channels is much poorer on the 6416/3416 than the 6412.

Is this a known issue?

I REALLY want the extra hard drive space, but if my Battlestar Galactica looks any crappier than it already does, I'll cry like a little girl.

I haven't noticed any picture quality issues. If anything, the picture looks better on the 3416, IMO. When they first hooked it up, something seemed wrong, but then I remembered to go into the service menu and change the output to 1080i instead of 720p and everything was good.

Bruce Blakeslee

09-29-06, 12:38 PM

I ask because, digging around the forums, it appears that some people have claimed the picture quality of the SD channels is much poorer on the 6416/3416 than the 6412.

Is this a known issue?

I REALLY want the extra hard drive space, but if my Battlestar Galactica looks any crappier than it already does, I'll cry like a little girl.

So far my experience (over 4 days) is that the picture is better with much more snap to the color. My SD channels are all digital now and they look fantastic. They look so good that I would be happy with only that level of picture quality. The HD stations are better but not so much that I feel complled to wach them over the digital channels except in some circumstances (Baseball and Football)

ak3883

09-29-06, 02:30 PM

My 3416 I got a couple weeks ago for a 6412PII that was crapping out has worked much better. PQ is about the same IMO, maybe a touch better for SD, I don't really notice a change for HD.

I don't get nearly the remote control delays i use to get with the old 6412(sometimes >30 seconds!), I think a couple times i've had a delay of maybe 3-4 seconds, but only like 2 times. Usually it's very fast. Menus are faster too, whenever watching an HD channel, the guide was always so sloooow to change pages.

Also, i found you can hold the right arrow button to quickly skip forward in time in the guide, you don't have to keep pressing, just hold it down and it quickly goes up. I don't think the old 6412 did it.

Overall i'm quite satisfied with it, it runs cooler b/c of the extra fan, and the signal on the 2nd tuner is the same level, not ~4.0db lower, which was the case for the 6412.

slightlyjaded

09-29-06, 05:22 PM

Thanks for the insight all, I appreciate it.

chris57

09-30-06, 07:54 AM

andyross63

09-30-06, 10:11 AM

Possibly Good News: Today I recieved a message on my Moto DVR and Digital Cable Box saying how a new Programming guide is coming. Maybe this is code for "TiVo will be here sooon!" I guess they are totally phasing out the crappy iguide thing. I bet that they started with a guide for digital cable boxes, then added on to it for the DVR so they will be similar. I can't wait! Anyone got any more info?
No. Unless your area hasn't upgraded the non-DVR's to IGuide (are they still using the tan guide?) it may be referring to the updated IGuide software, with redesigned menus and support for other new features.

chris57

09-30-06, 11:38 AM

Nope all of the cable boxes are IGuide in my area (Southern MA).

scanpa

09-30-06, 12:04 PM

Nope all of the cable boxes are IGuide in my area (Southern MA).

Your getting the NEW Enhanced Mosaic I-Guide.

The TiVo Software when available will be a upgraded DVR option w/ additional fee. you will have to request it.

Savman

09-30-06, 02:16 PM

Yes, the upgraded DVR service Tier w/ TiVo will be $14.95 per Month versus the current DVR service fee of $9.95 per Month.

and yes both prices will be going up by end of the year. I would guess after X-mas / Jab 2007 area.

have heard $12.95 for I-GUIDE (Basic DVR service Tier)
and $17.95 for TiVo (Advanced DVR service Tier)

as always STB rental cost not included. Most are now covered in the cost of the Digital Packages.

Why would they increase the price for the I-guide? Are they planning on making improvements to the i-guide that make it worth this increase? I just don't think its current state is worth that amount of money, sorry.

LonghornXP

09-30-06, 02:29 PM

Why would they increase the price for the I-guide? Are they planning on making improvements to the i-guide that make it worth this increase? I just don't think its current state is worth that amount of money, sorry.

They aren't raising the price of the iguide. To put it simply consider your current iguide on your box today as iguide 1.0. The new guide your bill and box updates are talking about is a newer better version of the iguide and lets call this iguide 2.0. The iguide 2.0 update will happen soon and it won't cost anything different.

Now in the future when the Tivo software is rolled out it will be the Tivo software that will cost an extra 5 bucks a month on top of the existing DVR fees your paying today so your net bill will be 5 bucks a month more per DVR that gets a Tivo upgrade.

So in my case I get the triple play bundle with two normal HD DVRs with iguide and I pay about 185 bucks a month. So if I upgraded both of my DVRs to Tivo service my bill would increase to about 195 bucks a month not counting taxes which might increase it another buck or so. I hope this helps you out.

Also the new iguide software that will be rolling out is at the link below.

http://www.comcast.com/newguide/

cherry ghost

09-30-06, 03:24 PM

bobby94928

09-30-06, 03:32 PM

Did you read the post that Savman quoted? If correct, it's a $3 increase for IGuide.

No, it's a $3 increase for DVR service. The guide comes with it. The guide will be on almost all the other STBs and there is no increase there.

cherry ghost

09-30-06, 03:42 PM

No, it's a $3 increase for DVR service. The guide comes with it. The guide will be on almost all the other STBs and there is no increase there.

I guess we'll have to wait for Savman to come back, but I assumed he was talking about the increase for the DVR service with IGuide.

Savman

09-30-06, 03:44 PM

No, it's a $3 increase for DVR service. The guide comes with it. The guide will be on almost all the other STBs and there is no increase there.

Oh, I didn't really mean it like that. I moreso was asking what is the point of increasing the DVR price. I don't see the reason. The current software and "guideware"(if that's a word, which I doubt) isn't worth the increase. If they change or greatly improve the i-guide before the increase, then the price may be justified.

Savman

09-30-06, 03:49 PM

They aren't raising the price of the iguide. To put it simply consider your current iguide on your box today as iguide 1.0. The new guide your bill and box updates are talking about is a newer better version of the iguide and lets call this iguide 2.0. The iguide 2.0 update will happen soon and it won't cost anything different.

Now in the future when the Tivo software is rolled out it will be the Tivo software that will cost an extra 5 bucks a month on top of the existing DVR fees your paying today so your net bill will be 5 bucks a month more per DVR that gets a Tivo upgrade.

So in my case I get the triple play bundle with two normal HD DVRs with iguide and I pay about 185 bucks a month. So if I upgraded both of my DVRs to Tivo service my bill would increase to about 195 bucks a month not counting taxes which might increase it another buck or so. I hope this helps you out.

Also the new iguide software that will be rolling out is at the link below.

http://www.comcast.com/newguide/

I'm pretty sure you know(or do you?) that I am GeorgiaBoy from the bbr forum. And my concern is, now that you bring the guide into perspective is that Savannah may not even have it before prices increase on the DVR hardware, therefore yielding absolutely no type of reason for an increase. Savannah never gets things on time(yet prices increase), and I'm doubting we'll get the new guide at all. If I am wrong, and we receive it around the same time as other markets, I will let both of these forums know, and you'll probably see a whole bunch of smiley faces in my post. Same for if we ever see ADS. :)

saturneclipse

10-01-06, 01:52 AM

Also the new iguide software that will be rolling out is at the link below.

From the link:

Pressing the DVR button on your remote or selecting DVR from the Quick Menu now brings you to a menu of all your DVR options including viewing your recordings, DVR schedule, modifying Series Priority and adding new recordings.

I'm pretty sure this means when I browse my recordings I now will have to hit the DVR button and then select "My Recordings". If this happens, I will leave Comcast. At my old house they pulled the same crap with the TV listings. When I hit the Guide button it would go to this menu in which I had to select "TV listings" and hit enter before I could see the listings. I cannot stand their obsession with adding extraneous menus on buttons I press several hundred times a week.

Savman

10-01-06, 09:29 AM

From the link:

Pressing the DVR button on your remote or selecting DVR from the Quick Menu now brings you to a menu of all your DVR options including viewing your recordings, DVR schedule, modifying Series Priority and adding new recordings.

I'm pretty sure this means when I browse my recordings I now will have to hit the DVR button and then select "My Recordings". If this happens, I will leave Comcast. At my old house they pulled the same crap with the TV listings. When I hit the Guide button it would go to this menu in which I had to select "TV listings" and hit enter before I could see the listings. I cannot stand their obsession with adding extraneous menus on buttons I press several hundred times a week.

Calm down. It's really not that serious. the purpose is to make it easier to get to "all of the other options" pertaining to the DVR using only one button instead being able to access DVR recordings pressing only one but having to press an awful lot more to get to say, the DVR Schedule, Prioty lists, and things of that nature. There is more to the new guide than that "one petpeeve of yours. The new guide has more to offer than that.
http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/16937916?c=1065331&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxNjkzNzkxNn5zdGFydD0w

The positives probably outweigh that "one" negative ;)

scanpa

10-01-06, 09:48 AM

Oh, I didn't really mean it like that. I moreso was asking what is the point of increasing the DVR price. I don't see the reason. The current software and "guideware"(if that's a word, which I doubt) isn't worth the increase. If they change or greatly improve the i-guide before the increase, then the price may be justified.

It would be the charge of the DVR service, if the up in price is approved. It is for 2007 anyway, and doubt it will go up from the current $9.95 Per Month Fee, now the Deluxe DVR service (TiVo software upgrade) will be 3 - 5 bucks more per month.

chr31ter

10-01-06, 10:03 AM

Savman

10-01-06, 12:16 PM

Don't get too attached to any of those new features listed in that link - they're not all going to be available, as far as I've heard.

It's a relatively minor tweak that introduces a few new features as well as fixing some previous bugs with the software. It's definitely NOT Tivo.

Well, I know it's not Tivo, but it's a large improvement of the i-guide's current state so I'll give them credit. It's good for what it is. Plus I don't think the enhancement is in its complete form yet. More features may be added over time from what I've heard. Who knows, maybe this "J-guide" Scanpa has mentioned will be better.

Scanpa, will the j-guide allow for more features, better integration or something?

[QUOTE=scanpa]All 6412p1 & 6412p2 STB should have been returned and/ or swapped out by now with the newer equipment.

The 6208, 6412p1, & 6412p2 are all discontinued /\/\oto STB. They use a less advanced CPU. AFAIK only the 64xxp3 & 34xxp1 & 34xxp2 STB will be able to run TiVo, but dont quote me on that. I will ask monday, at work.

Panasonic HD DVR STB are expected for roll out in 1st. Qrtr. 2007.

It will use a OCAP software Guide program. Unknown what, or who as of yet.

Yeah I dug this up. Do I read right, OCAP will result in another guide of its own origin?

falsedawn

10-01-06, 06:45 PM

jc111

10-01-06, 07:01 PM

Does anyone know if the 3416 or 6416 is available in Baltimore County? Can someone refer me to a link where I can find the additional features over the 6412?

Savman

10-01-06, 07:38 PM

When I want DVR recordings 95+% of the time, I like a single button push to get to them.

I think a lot of people do, including myself, but I don't see it as something to go crazy over. It all depends on the individual subscriber. I may want to check and make sure I did not book two programmings(in the future) that eventually occupy the same timeframe, especially if their turns out to be another desirable programming that I may want to watch(but not record) at the time. For example, my area is not ADS, so I want to avoid recording analog programming which could eat up a lot of space. However, the programming is desirable and I forgot the program aired. Problem: I may have scheduled two premium network movies several days before they come on, so I forget they are within the same time frame as that particular program. I can always check the DVR schedule, this time only by pushing 2 or 3(I forget from the website) buttons and cancel one recording knowing the likelyhood of a nearby repeat on a premium, and proceed to watch my analog program. I know a lot of people don't use the priority list and other options, but I do.(maybe I should be embarrassed as i am probably a loner on that :o ) I'm willing to sacrifice "pushing one more button"(not really much more "work") to access my current DVR recordings to have easier accessibility to the other options. :)

The only thing that will make me crazy is if those stupid ads ever show up again :(

slightlyjaded

10-02-06, 12:46 PM

Okay, so Comcast is dumber than I was giving them credit for.

Despite getting repeated assurances from the rep I spoke with on the phone that the 3416/6416 box WAS available in my area and in stock at my local office, for whenever I wanted to go swap it out, that turned out not to be the case.

Went to the local Comcast office, and they have 3412s, not 3416s. The main reason I was doing it was for the extra 40gigs of hard drive space, so I just said forget it and kept my 6412.

Is there any benefit anybody knows of that I would get by switching to the 3412? (I do audio through my receiver, so it doesn't matter to me whether I'm using DVI or HDMI to connect the TV.)

I know the 3412 is a digital only box. Is it possible that I'm getting analog feeds of some channels now, and would get digital (and potentially a better picture) if I do switch to the 3412? Or is my 6412 picking up digital whenever it's available anyway?

Is there any other reason to switch to the 3412? At this point I'm thinking I'll just wait till the Panny boxes come out next year.

HD Rookie

10-02-06, 01:19 PM

Is there any other reason to switch to the 3412? At this point I'm thinking I'll just wait till the Panny boxes come out next year.
I've had similar thoughts about box swapping. Like you, I don't need hdmi and my 6412 works pretty well (besides the lack of space). After reading the hundreds of gripes posted on the 3412 and 6412 threads, I'm afraid to swap. I'm worried I'll get one of the shi$$y boxes that somebody else returned.

Speaking of the 3412 and 6412 threads, would you guys mind if we resume the non-tivo discussions in their proper theads?

Tybee

10-02-06, 01:37 PM

I've had similar thoughts about box swapping. Like you, I don't need hdmi and my 6412 works pretty well (besides the lack of space). After reading the hundreds of gripes posted on the 3412 and 6412 threads, I'm afraid to swap. I'm worried I'll get one of the shi$$y boxes that somebody else returned.

My advice is if you have a box that is working for you, don't switch until the Tivo software comes out, the Panny box is released, or some other catalyst makes it worth your while. If you switch from, say, the 6412 to the 3412, there's a chance you will LOSE channels, or not be as pleased with the pixelization and audio dropouts when the digital signal gets weak (as opposed to a bit of snow on the analog side).

Budget_HT

10-02-06, 03:14 PM

I had the impression that a 6412 could be configured by Comcast to receive and record the same digital channels as a 3412, thus ignoring the analog versions of the same channels.

Am I mistaken?

If I am right, it seems that there would be little or no user advantage to switching from 6412 to 3412. The advantage for Comcast going forward is that the 3412 box needs no internal A->D converter and no MPEG encoder, so their cost would be less than the cost of a 6412.

HD Rookie

10-02-06, 03:51 PM

I had the impression that a 6412 could be configured by Comcast to receive and record the same digital channels as a 3412, thus ignoring the analog versions of the same channels.

Am I mistaken?
You are correct. My neighborhood went ADS a couple months back. While I still get analog channels on the raw cable line, my 6412 is picking up the digital version of the channels.

kjbawc

10-02-06, 10:46 PM

I had the impression that a 6412 could be configured by Comcast to receive and record the same digital channels as a 3412, thus ignoring the analog versions of the same channels.

I believe you are correct. My Comcast service, with a 6412, sometimes shows digital glitches on analog channels, but the same glitches don't show up from the RF feed to my DVDR.

falsedawn

10-03-06, 01:41 PM

I'm willing to sacrifice "pushing one more button"(not really much more "work") to access my current DVR recordings to have easier accessibility to the other options. :)

I'm different in that regard. I want to minimize extra steps in processes I do all the time, sacrificing pushing extra buttons for those things I do MUCH less frequently.

Savman

10-03-06, 05:26 PM

I'm different in that regard. I want to minimize extra steps in processes I do all the time, sacrificing pushing extra buttons for those things I do MUCH less frequently.
Once again, I would like to do the same, and I honestly wish they could assign another button on the remote to pull up the other stuff, and let MY DVR remain as is, but I may enjoy some of the features more than enough so that I will not dwell on that slight drawback. Honestly, I just hope Savannah gets the guide as it'll be a nice addition to the area's lagging progress in terms of the new services Comcast provides.

MrGreg

10-03-06, 08:06 PM

Speaking of remotes, once the Tivo software is available, will I have to keep using this terrible motorola remote? I'd really like to use a tivo (peanut) remote instead.

It would be great if there was a switch in the software that allowed the box to receive tivo remote codes. I'm guessing, however, the people at comcast want to keep the giant "On Demand" button on the remote. I don't think I've pushed that thing once.

Of course, while I'm dreaming, how about activating the SATA port, too.

saturneclipse

10-04-06, 01:54 AM

Calm down. It's really not that serious. the purpose is to make it easier to get to "all of the other options" pertaining to the DVR using only one button instead being able to access DVR recordings pressing only one but having to press an awful lot more to get to say, the DVR Schedule, Prioty lists, and things of that nature. There is more to the new guide than that "one petpeeve of yours. The new guide has more to offer than that.

The positives probably outweigh that "one" negative ;)

Allright, fine. It may be a little dramatic, but you try pushing two buttons with a 3 second delay in between them every single time you want to look at the TV listings. That's what I dealt with when I lived in MD. This new DVR menu is in that same sort of category, albeit not quite as important as the TV listings.

My major problem is that the interface is just terrible. I was at a friend's house and they had DirecTV and the interface was unbelievably fast compared to anything Comcast has. I'm not 4 years old and I don't need my reading glasses to change the channel. I waste my time and money watching TV and I am a pro at operating the remote. I hate the buggy, laggy, ugly interface as it is and when they make it worse by adding additional menus to shuffle through it bothers me.

Damn monopolies.

Tybee

10-04-06, 11:34 AM

It would be great if there was a switch in the software that allowed the box to receive tivo remote codes. I'm guessing, however, the people at comcast want to keep the giant "On Demand" button on the remote. I don't think I've pushed that thing once.

Slightly OT, but I've become quite enamored of On Demand of late. They seem to be making a concentrated effort lately to fill it with decent free content. Here in Atlanta they have a lot of interesting local programs, including an hourlong show about the Georgia Aquarium, local HS football games, cooking shows, a HILARIOUS video dating type thing that is fun to watch with friends. They've also started porting a lot of new network and cable shows to On Demand, some of it in HD.

Okay, resume complaining.

Syzygy

10-04-06, 11:42 AM

Savman said:
I'm willing to sacrifice "pushing one more button" (not really much more "work") to access my current DVR recordings to have easier accessibility to the other options. ;)In case no one has mentioned it, the TiVo interface requires only two button presses to bring up either the To Do List or Now Playing. This is no hardship at all, IMHO.

OTOH, it's purely awful that it takes 10 or 12 button presses to turn Closed Captioning on and off.

DavidMillerBG

10-04-06, 12:40 PM

Speaking of remotes, once the Tivo software is available, will I have to keep using this terrible motorola remote? I'd really like to use a tivo (peanut) remote instead.

I was at an Interactive TV conference where a TiVo executive spoke. He said that there will be a software update, and then they would mail you a new remote.

My guess it that is would be a TiVo peanut remote with the Pay-Per-View and VOD items accessible from the TiVo main menu.

10-04-06, 01:22 PM

I was at an Interactive TV conference where a TiVo executive spoke. He said that there will be a software update, and then they would mail you a new remote.

My guess it that is would be a TiVo peanut remote with the Pay-Per-View and VOD items accessible from the TiVo main menu.

Did he hint at any other features? Remote Scheduling over the Web? Guide data saved on disk?

Savman

10-04-06, 05:00 PM

Allright, fine. It may be a little dramatic, but you try pushing two buttons with a 3 second delay in between them every single time you want to look at the TV listings. That's what I dealt with when I lived in MD. This new DVR menu is in that same sort of category, albeit not quite as important as the TV listings.

My major problem is that the interface is just terrible. I was at a friend's house and they had DirecTV and the interface was unbelievably fast compared to anything Comcast has. I'm not 4 years old and I don't need my reading glasses to change the channel. I waste my time and money watching TV and I am a pro at operating the remote. I hate the buggy, laggy, ugly interface as it is and when they make it worse by adding additional menus to shuffle through it bothers me.

Damn monopolies.
Are you trying to say that your DVR has poor responsiveness b/c so does mine, I'll have to agree with you there. And the interface isn't that pleasant overall, but like I said, for the little that the enhancement is, I guess it'll end up being OK. It may be at least a slight improvement over the current functionallity, not to mention, they eliminate strolling in the main menu, so I won't go crazy with complaints.

ak3883

10-04-06, 05:19 PM

I've had similar thoughts about box swapping. Like you, I don't need hdmi and my 6412 works pretty well (besides the lack of space). After reading the hundreds of gripes posted on the 3412 and 6412 threads, I'm afraid to swap. I'm worried I'll get one of the shi$$y boxes that somebody else returned.

Speaking of the 3412 and 6412 threads, would you guys mind if we resume the non-tivo discussions in their proper theads?

I didn't wanna switch over either, cause my old 6412 was working *fairly* well. Then HD channels really started studdering and pixelating a lot, and after about a week of that I turn it on one morning and ALL my recordings disapeared, which was a big reason why I was keeping it. Well that was the straw that broke the camel's back, swapped it out for a 3416 the next day. No reason to keep it anymore. So far so good, that extra 40GB is really gonna come in handy come college bball season :D

Syzygy

10-04-06, 05:34 PM

Very clever! They send out a signal telling your box to lose all of its saved recordings; then you're free to swap it for the new box!

Bill Ball

10-04-06, 06:04 PM

Slightly OT, but I've become quite enamored of On Demand of late. They seem to be making a concentrated effort lately to fill it with decent free content. Here in Atlanta they have a lot of interesting local programs, including an hourlong show about the Georgia Aquarium, local HS football games, cooking shows, a HILARIOUS video dating type thing that is fun to watch with friends. They've also started porting a lot of new network and cable shows to On Demand, some of it in HD.

Okay, resume complaining.

At risk of both of us being branded as Comcast plants, I will say I agree with you. OnDemand has been gradually improving content-wise.

Oh, this is OT. Back to TiVo discussion. I will just say, I have been lurking here anxiously awaiting the arrival of the TiVo software so I can finally get rid of D*TV. My wife and kids are totally wedded to the TiVo interface, so we retain the D*TV SD service PVR so they can be happy. They have never accepted iGuide.

Bill

chr31ter

10-05-06, 12:13 AM

FWIW, my friend the tech for Comcast says that you will have to push two buttons to get to the DVR Recordings with the new guide, but that the latency issues have been dramatically improved in the testing they've done so far.

mr2828

10-05-06, 12:42 AM

I have the new guide, and the 30 sec skip has much worse latency. If I could go back to the old guide I would at this point. Hassles outweight very tiny useful features like the "view HD only" shows option. Also after receiving the update, one of my 6412s barfed for the first time in a very long time and recorded one hour of black screen instead of Boston Legal last night.

Gabatta

10-05-06, 10:54 AM

I could care less about the new guide. I want the Tivo interface, and I want it soon! I want to Panny box very soon after that. Comcast needs to give me more value for my $$. The current DVR functionality and box sucks plain and simple.

tmeader

10-05-06, 11:24 AM

Is there anywhere to find out a schedule for the rollouts of either the new guide or the Tivo interface? The current iGuide is PAINFUL to use.

bicker1

10-05-06, 12:04 PM

No, there is nowhere to find out the schedule for the rollouts -- at least nowhere better than right here.

scanpa

10-05-06, 12:06 PM

Is there anywhere to find out a schedule for the rollouts of either the new guide or the Tivo interface? The current iGuide is PAINFUL to use.

So Far MN & FL have the Enhanced I-Guide (partial portion anyway)

Main Roll Out as the headends are ready for the upgrade.

TiVo starts a limited Roll Out in the next 90 days.

clemon79

10-05-06, 03:08 PM

TiVo starts a limited Roll Out in the next 90 days.
Will "limited" include Seattle? (please say yes please say yes please say yes ;))

QZ1

10-05-06, 05:27 PM

I had the impression that a 6412 could be configured by Comcast to receive and record the same digital channels as a 3412, thus ignoring the analog versions of the same channels.

Am I mistaken?
As soon as a channel goes ADS in an area, the Digital version is mapped to the same channel number as where the Analog channel used to be, so everyone gets it automatically. :)

From reading, apparently it isn't always the case for CableCards, eventhough it should be; some people get Analog 2-99, and have to call to get Digital.

mr2828

10-05-06, 07:13 PM

Savman

10-05-06, 09:13 PM

So Far MN & FL have the Enhanced I-Guide (partial portion anyway)

Do they plan to roll out a full portion of the VRN guide? Also, exactly what would the full version include if one existed?

cypherstream

10-06-06, 12:10 PM

Ok there seems to be numerous versions of i-guides rolling out.

We have A23, the standard blue I-Guide on our system.

There's a small update to A23 which consolidates the search menus, adds a screen saver and changes the "one moment please" to "Welcome to onDemand".

Theres the "improved guide" add "/improvedguide" to the end of comcast's website.
Which seems to be that update plus Multi-Favorites and onDeamand time bar.

Then theres the "new guide" or Mosaic/VRN as some call it shown at the "newguide" link off of comcast's website.

This is that 'improved guide' plus the ability to do video mosaics over a custom bitmapped background. This adds the Comcast Central, Comcast News, Comcast Kids channels in the 900's.

Then last but not least there is the mysterious 'J-Guide'. All we know is that it's supposed to have a new modern interface. I take it this will require OCAP. Any screenshots, feature listings, or rollout timeschedules for this guide?

Seems to me there are quite a few guide versions out there, not to mention the new TiVo guide, and the different guides for the SA Markets.

Any insight to all of this information? What will Comcast do for the SA Markets? Will this J-Guide run on SA Set tops as well as Motorola?

QZ1

10-06-06, 12:42 PM

I have two 6412s that still aren't getting the digital channel versions even though those channels have been here for months now, and the 3416 is available here. I picked up a 3416 a couple days ago and it is getting the digital versions. Perhaps someone here has forgotten to switch over the old boxes.
That is the first I have heard of that. I have a 6412, and as soon as I read ADS started on some channels, they were Digital on my 6412. So, apparently, like with CableCards, some (or all) people in some areas with a 6412 aren't being switched over automatically, probably an oversight if you ask me, but at least phone call to them gets the Digitals activated.

andyross63

10-06-06, 06:34 PM

slightlyjaded

10-10-06, 09:28 PM

And I just posted this in the official 6412 thread as well.

I just got the iGuide update for my Comcast Motorola 6412 box. Have already noticed some positive differences--most notably, the fact that it doesn't freeze up for as long as a minute or more when you try to do anything while watching an HD program.

One question though: in the old iGuide, it was a known bug that you couldn't set series recordings to start or finish before or after the scheduled time, or the box would basicallly vomit all over itself.

Does anyone know if this bug has been fixed in the new version of iGuide? I'd REALLY love to be able to start the recording for a couple of my series a couple minutes early.

Thanks in advance.

tennis

10-13-06, 10:32 PM

Hi,

What software version(s) on my Comcat Moto box will contain the TiVo code? I'm trying to figure out when they will start introducing it in my area.

TIA,
-T

pianoman41

10-14-06, 12:09 AM

One question though: in the old iGuide, it was a known bug that you couldn't set series recordings to start or finish before or after the scheduled time, or the box would basicallly vomit all over itself.

Does anyone know if this bug has been fixed in the new version of iGuide? I'd REALLY love to be able to start the recording for a couple of my series a couple minutes early.

I still have the old iGuide and I've never seen this "bug" you speak of on my 6412. I've had dozen of series recorded over the past 18 months and I always pad them front and back (when they don't conflict) and I've never had the box act up because of it.

scanpa

10-14-06, 01:31 AM

Hi,

What software version(s) on my Comcat Moto box will contain the TiVo code? I'm trying to figure out when they will start introducing it in my area.

TIA,
-T

You will have to request an upgrade on the DVR service. It will be at a additional fee., then they will allow your STB to download the TiVo - Comcast software & Firmware.

pappy97

10-18-06, 09:24 PM

You will have to request an upgrade on the DVR service. It will be at a additional fee., then they will allow your STB to download the TiVo - Comcast software & Firmware.

So some people already have it??

scanpa

10-18-06, 09:36 PM

So some people already have it??

Not yet, soon. Aprox. Less then 100 days to go for first stage roll out.

MomentaryLapse

10-19-06, 12:58 AM

Not yet, soon. Aprox. Less then 100 days to go for first stage roll out.

First stage? Out of curiosity, short of reading through 14 or so pages... Are there going to be any other "test" markets? Or has anyone tried installing TIVO software on their unit?

impulse630

10-19-06, 01:26 AM

Yesterday i sent an e-mail to Comcast to, among other things, see if i could get some more info on the Comcast/TiVo upgrade. Although i didn't get much info, i DID get some interesting tidbits:

Comcast and TiVo have agreed to develop a version of TiVo service to offer to Comcast customers in addition to Comcast's current DVR service. The new TiVo service from Comcast will offer customers premium services unique to TiVo, such as TiVo program suggestions and remote DVR scheduling. The TiVo service will be available as an add-on to Comcast's DVR service, and a TiVo box will not be required. Customers will have more DVR options and can select the service that best meets their needs. Unfortunately, we have no additional information to offer at this time as to when this service will become available. Please keep an eye on your bill inserts, DCT messaging and direct mailers for when new services will become available.

I was surprised to hear that remote scheduling would be part of the upgrade. It sounds more promising that i thought it might be.

-dave

MomentaryLapse

10-19-06, 01:37 AM

Yesterday i sent an e-mail to Comcast to, among other things, see if i could get some more info on the Comcast/TiVo upgrade. Although i didn't get much info, i DID get some interesting tidbits:

I was surprised to hear that remote scheduling would be part of the upgrade. It sounds more promising that i thought it might be.

-dave

Very cool info!

bicker1

10-19-06, 06:22 AM

I may really appreciate having returned my S3!

10-19-06, 09:23 AM

Could it be that Tivo is purposely delaying deployment to miss the holiday season? There is a lot more money to be made on an $800 box with $13/month, then a $1/month royalty from Comcast. The holiday season is probably prime time for expensive DVR gifts, and I imagine they would like the S3 to be the only HD/Cable Tivo option for now.

cypherstream

10-19-06, 11:49 AM

It will be interesting to see how responsive the TIVO interface will be on the Motorola DCT's. The Moto DCT's seem a little bit limited in CPU Power and Memory. I wonder if it has support for the high color graphics used on some of the TIVO screens? I know they had to dumb down Aptiv Digital's passport when porting that guide from SA to Motorola.

StuJac

10-19-06, 11:52 AM

The new moto boxes, the 3416 has improved cpu and memory power.

bicker1

10-19-06, 11:54 AM

Well, as long as the S3 is the only legitimate option that requires a long-term commitment, it does make sense to try to get as many of those that will buy it to buy it before providing a somewhat-comparable option that doesn't require a long-term commitment.

Tybee

10-19-06, 12:07 PM

The new moto boxes, the 3416 has improved cpu and memory power.

Is this also true of the 6416? Do you think it's likely that XX16 users will be the first offered the Tivo software?

smithre4

10-19-06, 02:40 PM

What sucks for me is that Comcast in Harford County, MD still only offers the Scientific Atlanta boxes (I have the 8300). They haven't pushed out any firmware upgrades in a year. And since they aren't offering the Motorola boxes, it looks like even longer before I can get the Tivo capabilities...Argh...

StuJac

10-19-06, 02:44 PM

Is this also true of the 6416? Do you think it's likely that XX16 users will be the first offered the Tivo software?

I have no idea Tybee. All I know is I had 3 6412's and they were all pos. The 3416 is the second one I've had but this one, even though the HDMI doesn't work, is the best dvr, outside of my Tivo, that I've ever used. The picture on component is identical to the HDMI picture (converted to DVI for my TV)

Tybee

10-19-06, 03:24 PM

I have no idea Tybee. All I know is I had 3 6412's and they were all pos. The 3416 is the second one I've had but this one, even though the HDMI doesn't work, is the best dvr, outside of my Tivo, that I've ever used. The picture on component is identical to the HDMI picture (converted to DVI for my TV)

Agree with that. Feels weird to say, but I've had virtually ZERO complaints since getting the 3416 (knock on wood). My only problems now have to do with weak signals on occasion.

saturneclipse

10-20-06, 10:07 PM

I got the new guide last week. It was the "improvedguide" version rather than the "newguide" version. Anywho, the fact that I can now hit record and then change the channel is great. The FF works much faster (maybe 5 times faster) and there's less latency overall. I really hate that you have to click two buttons to get to the DVR menu, but because it's less laggy I end up getting to my recordings just as fast usually. All the other new features are completely useless IMO.

I'm still holding out for the Tivo software for sure, but so far this new software is a minor step forward.

kjbawc

10-21-06, 01:42 AM

All the other new features are completely useless IMO.

I like the time bar on OnDemand programs, and especially I like the ability to have five "favorites" lists. I Have one for music, one for movie channels, one for news, one for HD, one for PBS, Discovery, etc. Works for me!

ajwees41

10-22-06, 01:03 AM

ajwees41

10-22-06, 10:37 AM

Has Comcast announced prices for the 6412 with tivo software?

ajwees41

scanpa

10-22-06, 12:42 PM

Has Comcast announced prices for the 6412 with tivo software?

ajwees41

Reg DVR service is $9.95 per month

Upgraded DVR service (TiVo) $12.95 - $14.95 per month / not set as of yet.

It will be a software download to your existing DCT 64xx / DCT 34xx series STB.

December 01, 2006 there will be more info available to Comcast CSR's about the upcoming release of the TiVo DVR service software upgrade. Training in some markets due to start in early November.

It is due in mid December for a limited roll out in some markets.

formulaben

10-22-06, 12:45 PM

It can't come soon enough...

ajwees41

10-22-06, 12:57 PM

Reg DVR service is $9.95 per month

Upgraded DVR service (TiVo) $12.95 - $14.95 per month / not set as of yet.

It will be a software download to your existing DCT 64xx / DCT 34xx series STB.

December 01, 2007 there will be more info available to Comcast CSR's about the upcoming release of the TiVo DVR service software upgrade. Training in some markets due to start in early November.

It is due in mid December for a limited roll out in some markets.

How much is the rental of the dvr? Have you heard if that will change? I have Cox, but they also signed with tivo and I was trying to see what Comcast will be charging.

ajwees41

cherry ghost

10-22-06, 01:47 PM

Reg DVR service is $9.95 per month

Is there an increase for this coming soon?

scanpa

10-22-06, 01:55 PM

How much is the rental of the dvr? Have you heard if that will change? I have Cox, but they also signed with tivo and I was trying to see what Comcast will be charging.

ajwees41

That will depend on your area and what package of service you order. The cost listed is only for the DVR service, not for the STB.

scanpa

10-22-06, 01:56 PM

Is there an increase for this coming soon?

Had heard there was going to be an increase sometime in 2007, but that was back several months ago.

tmeader

10-22-06, 04:40 PM

scanpa

10-22-06, 05:05 PM

I seriously hope you meant December 01, 2006?

Yes, I did mean Dec. 01, 2006 not 2007.

Sorry!

10-24-06, 06:47 PM

. Training in some markets due to start in early November.

Are you in one of those areas, and will be able to fill us in on the feature set in early November?

formulaben

10-24-06, 07:08 PM

Does anyone know if there will be an option to use the Peanut remote?

MomentaryLapse

10-24-06, 08:07 PM

Does anyone know if there will be an option to use the Peanut remote?

Somehow I doubt it.... but would be nice. They'll prob use the ABC buttons for commands like thumbs up/down ...

MrGreg

10-24-06, 08:26 PM

Asked and answered, at least from one source.

I was at an Interactive TV conference where a TiVo executive spoke. He said that there will be a software update, and then they would mail you a new remote.

My guess it that is would be a TiVo peanut remote with the Pay-Per-View and VOD items accessible from the TiVo main menu.

formulaben

10-24-06, 10:26 PM

Asked and answered, at least from one source.

SWEET! :)

MomentaryLapse

10-24-06, 10:30 PM

SWEET! :)

I second that! Now, I just hope that Linux plays nice with our boxes.

10-24-06, 11:54 PM

I second that! Now, I just hope that Linux plays nice with our boxes.

I don't think its known that the Tivo software for Comcast will be Linux based. It's conceivable they just ported the interface on top of the Motorola run time environment.

At some point, I believe scanpa said that you won't lose your recorded programs when you are upgraded to the Tivo software. This would make it unlikely that are using the native MFS filesystem that Tivo developed for Linux, and makes me wonder if Linux will be on the box at all.

MomentaryLapse

10-25-06, 12:03 AM

First of all, if they don't dump Moto's runtimes, I won't switch. From what I hear, that's 80% of the problem with these DVRs. Secondly, I am not sure... but seems that we should lose the programming. Going from one S/W version to another has killed it... I am sure that a Tivo upgrade would be a lot more intensive...

bicker1

10-25-06, 07:51 AM

And I think you'll disappointed. I doubt they'd port the OS as well as the UI.

cypherstream

10-25-06, 10:50 AM

I don't think its known that the Tivo software for Comcast will be Linux based. It's conceivable they just ported the interface on top of the Motorola run time environment.

At some point, I believe scanpa said that you won't lose your recorded programs when you are upgraded to the Tivo software. This would make it unlikely that are using the native MFS filesystem that Tivo developed for Linux, and makes me wonder if Linux will be on the box at all.

Thats great that you wont loose your recordings. Perhaps the Tivo software is specially written in OCAP/Java and an OCAP compatible middleware layer will be downloaded to the STB. I just hope all the graphics, sounds and speed of use is similar to a real Tivo. I'm not sure what kind of processor or memory a real Tivo has, but the Motorola box has a little more on its plate with OOB Data management, QAM Decoding, HD/SD MPEG decoding, etc. Hopefully the Moto box will be able to handle the Tivo Software. Since Tivo is specific for DVR Recording, I don't think flash memory space will be an excuse to 'dumb down' the Tivo interface. They can update the boot loader and put some OS code / graphics resources on the DVR's hard drive.

I really hope that the Tivo upgrade actually performs better or the same as an actual Tivo unit. I hope they can achieve this with no compromises within current Moto Hardware limitations.

bicker1

10-25-06, 12:47 PM

I think that's really expecting a lot more than is to be expected. After all, TiVos work so well because the software is so well mated to the hardware as TiVo spec'ed it out. As a matter of fact, if you want a preview of how TiVo software will work on hardware other than what TiVo spec'ed, take a look at the recent 7.3/7.3.1 issue. There, some TiVo software changes were made that seem to be poorly compatible with some of the "cost-optimized" components permitted by some of TiVo's specs, which were used by one of TiVo's hardware vendors to keep their prices down. The result is that those specific TiVos now work much slower than before. It is extremely annoying for those customers. While I expect TiVo software on the Motorola boxes to be a step-up from how those boxes work today, I would expect no more than a moderate improvement -- Don't expect a radical improvement.

cheer

10-25-06, 12:50 PM

No idea how this will perform -- after all, we don't really know for sure how they're implementing -- but a "real" Series 2 Tivo box just has a crappy little MIPS processor running at roughly 166MHz, and the newer so-called Series2.5 units (the TCD 5xxxxx "night light" units, the Dual Tuner unit, or the DirecTV R10) use a 242MHz MIPS CPU. (The newer units are slower in many ways though, despite the CPU speed change -- not worth getting into here but if someone is really curious they should PM me for a link.)

bicker1

10-25-06, 02:11 PM

Actually, what you're alluding to is actually the crux of the issue: It isn't processor speed that affects performance of the TiVo user-interface, necessarily.

cypherstream

10-25-06, 02:14 PM

I figure that the Tivo software most likely wont be any faster than a real Tivo, but as long as it performs the same (ie, not dumbed down, or not lacking much performance) I will be happy. It seems that as simple as the I-Guide looks, it's not really that speedy, which is why I'm concerned with the processor. It turns out that the MPEG decoding is on a separate chip, so that shouldn't bog the Tivo interface so much.
From Motorola's website, the DCT-6412 has
- 16 MB Flash, 128 MB DRAM standard unified memory (MSO can specify 256MB DRAM)
- Robust CPU, memory footprint, 3D graphics to run IPG, VOD, advanced applications and middleware
- MPEG-2 digital video processor

Whatever "Robust CPU" is, I have no idea. I'll see if I can read some chip numbers through the grille on the top of the DCT and search the broadcom site for it. I'm thinking its a BCM7038 CPU which you can read about here: http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Digital-TV-Solutions/BCM7038

THe BCM7038 is a 300 MHz MIPS 64-Bit CPU. I would think the 6412 would feel more responsive than it does. Perhaps the I-Guide is just not very well optimized? I just hope with new software they can squeeze every last drop of performance out of this sucker. I think the Tivo S3 also uses a Broadcom CPU but I doubt its a newer 7400 series (those are rather new and MPEG4/VC1 capable).

I hope they don't cut out many Tivo features and graphics just to fit within the 16MB Flash memory space. Hopefully they'll use some of that 120+ GB Hard Drive available so we can have full functionality.

I'll continue to search Google for actual technical specs and architecture details.

cheer

10-25-06, 02:27 PM

Pretty sure the S3 also uses the BCM7038. S2/S2.5 units use older, slower CPUs. As bicker1 says, it's not really about the CPU. :) Witness the huge speed difference between the DirecTivo HR10-250 running 3.x Tivo software and the same DirecTivo running 6.3a software.

I would be very surprised if Tivo used the flash storage for menus, etc. Then again, unless they just wipe the drive and replace it with their MFS filesystem, etc., I have no idea how they're going to do anything. This is new ground being covered.

bicker1

10-25-06, 07:06 PM

I just hope with new software they can squeeze every last drop of performance out of this sucker.I'm sure that as the product gains some maturity, we'll see optimization introduced into the codestream. Don't expect that out-of-the-gate.

Gabatta

10-26-06, 11:03 AM

I just want them to get the TiVo interface to market already. Then we will see.

My 3416 seems to process much more smoothly and quickly than my 6412 did. I am hoping the TiVo interface will improve this even further. Then we can look forward to an even better integration with the new Panny box due in Q1.

Otherwise, it is time to consider the S3.

ZipperSeven

10-26-06, 03:03 PM

Has anybody heard what the test/early roll out markets will be?

In Tallahassee, I got my first 6412 as part of a soft roll out, when I got it, it was only one of 50 that our local office had. Evidently we were the first market in North Florida to get DVR. It'd be nice if we were on the same schedule with the TiVo upgrades.

I finally turned in my Phase I box for the Phase III, so I'm ready~!

wareagle

10-26-06, 08:07 PM

Reg DVR service is $9.95 per month

Upgraded DVR service (TiVo) $12.95 - $14.95 per month / not set as of yet.

It will be a software download to your existing DCT 64xx / DCT 34xx series STB.

December 01, 2007 there will be more info available to Comcast CSR's about the upcoming release of the TiVo DVR service software upgrade. Training in some markets due to start in early November.

It is due in mid December for a limited roll out in some markets.

1. Is that $12.95 - $14.95 instead of, or in addition to, $9.95?
2. I assume you meant December 01, 2006, rather than 2007.

scanpa

10-26-06, 10:17 PM

1. Is that $12.95 - $14.95 instead of, or in addition to, $9.95?
2. I assume you meant December 01, 2006, rather than 2007.

instead of:

yes, 2006. Orig post corrected. "sorry!"

cypherstream

10-27-06, 11:09 AM

You know with all of this software downloading, guide data, every day authorizations, etc... don't you think the poor little old OOB data channel is going to get bogged down? Its only in the neighborhood of 2 mbps at QPSK modulation.

Sometimes already it takes 5-10 minutes for a hit to be sent to a DCT when changing service levels. Add people downloading tivo guides, or reverting back to i-guide if they want to drop the extra cost, maintenance broadcasts, guide data and firmware updates. Heck it takes sometimes a half hour to download the full guide, so if the channel is bogged down, how long will it take in the future? 2 hours?

Makes me wonder if they are going to deploy DSG (DOCSIS Set Top Gateway) first. This is where an update to the cable box and CMTS are provided which enable provisioning over a standard DOCSIS 38.8mbps channel. STB Authorizations and downloads are tunneled in an encrypted DSG link. This provides MUCH faster access to the STB in case of software downloads or future interactive TV applications.

What do you think? Scanpa, any mention of DSG at the Central PA Headends?

Wouldn't mind seeing them drop that 104.2 MHz OOB channel. That would free up channel 97 for a new QAM. Heck in our system they need every bit of space possible. At least move the OOB Channel to 74.25 MHz to free the QAM (and have a backup for if DSG/CMTS goes down).

ajwees41

10-27-06, 02:28 PM

[QUOTE=cypherstream]

Makes me wonder if they are going to deploy DSG (DOCSIS Set Top Gateway) first. This is where an update to the cable box and CMTS are provided which enable provisioning over a standard DOCSIS 38.8mbps channel. STB Authorizations and downloads are tunneled in an encrypted DSG link. This provides MUCH faster access to the STB in case of software downloads or future interactive TV applications.

It would need to work with the Comacast STB, but it doesn't yet.

Q.
What is a compatible DSG set-top box?
A.
It is a DOCSIS cable modem embedded in a digital STB with DSG client software to handle OOB video control
signaling. DSG builds upon DOCSIS technology to provide Layer 2 services necessary to send command and control
information to STBs. DSG standardizes digital STBs and helps reduce costs. Using DOCSIS as the main conduit for
data and video command and control data offers many advantages: interactivity, an attractive price point, and a
platform open to a variety of vendors. DSG technology can either replace traditional STBs or operate side by side
with them. Cable operators can migrate to DSG on a timeframe that fits their schedule.
Q.
Does Cisco Systems
®
have marketing agreements with vendors supporting DSG?
A.
Cisco has demonstrated the Cisco uBR7246VXR as a DSG gateway that interoperates with Samsung, Humax,
and Joohong STBs, as well as NDS, NagraVision, and Aircode SI conditional access systems (CASs). Cisco is
researching developing a formal program with vendors that support DSG and setting up marketing agreements. A
marketing agreement with Cisco indicates that the products interoperate with the appropriate level of testing. In
addition, Cisco will work with select vendors to jointly develop technologies and solutions that improve the value of
DSG for shared customers.

ajwees41

cypherstream

10-27-06, 04:06 PM

Well at least all the DVR's and HD boxes have embedded DOCSIS modems. Perhaps the DVR's will someday use the DSG signaling for quicker addressability, interactivity, and multiple guide downloads. They'll always have to rely on the standard QPSK OOB Channel not only for a backup, but because other STB's don't have DOCSIS modems embedded (DCT-2224, DCT-700, DCT-2500). Hopefully they can use this technology to its fullest.

The least they could do is move our OOB Ch to 74.25 MHz and free room for an additional QAM. Currently it's at 104.2 MHz which is right in the middle of Ch 97.

We'll have to see how long it takes to download the Tivo Guide, or revert back to I-Guide. Once people start doing this more often we'll see how it impacts other information traveling on that lowly 2.048 mbps channel.

andyross63

10-27-06, 05:37 PM

The least they could do is move our OOB Ch to 74.25 MHz and free room for an additional QAM. Currently it's at 104.2 MHz which is right in the middle of Ch 97.
By me, it's on 75.25, which is in a 4MHz gap between channels 4 and 5.

cypherstream

10-28-06, 12:38 PM

By me, it's on 75.25, which is in a 4MHz gap between channels 4 and 5.

Yeah thats what I meant, (I was off by 1 MHz).

Makes sense to put it there and not get in the way of other spaces for possible services! This is why thats the first channel in the HUNT sequence on first STB INIT.

RussB

10-31-06, 10:01 PM

By Erica Ogg
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Published: October 31, 2006, 4:00 AM PST

news analysis What do you do when the product you pioneered is being sold better, and for less, by someone else? In TiVo's case, the answer seems to be, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em--sort of.

In a move that will largely determine the future of other partnerships and, potentially, the company's success, the brand synonymous with digital video recording is inching closer to the real-world tryout for a deal first announced in 2005. In March of last year, TiVo signed a deal to put its technology inside set-top boxes from cable giant Comcast.

Selling its own standalone DVR boxes probably won't bring in the revenue its investors expect, and finding success with the nation's largest cable company is an important part of TiVo's strategy.

For the less technologically savvy crowd, it isn't a hard choice between buying a TiVo DVR box from a retail store and renting a set-top box from the local cable company that combines channel services and video time-shifting capability into one square, plastic package. A less-expensive option from a familiar entity, like Comcast, almost always trumps a pricey product.

DVR technology has drastically changed the way viewers watch television with features like the ability to record one program while watching another and skip commercials. Adoption of the technology is growing, and it will be driven largely by cable TV subscribers, according to a 2006 study by JupiterResearch. The study forecasts that 34 percent of households that subscribe to Internet access will own a DVR by 2011, up from the current 13 percent. Approximately a quarter of Comcast and Time Warner basic cable subscribers also subscribe to DVR services.

Observers have been sounding the death knell for TiVo almost since its founding, but the Alviso, Calif.-based company has trudged along and beaten expectations. The Comcast deal is seen as a crucial step for TiVo since its most successful partnership to date, with satellite service DirecTV, has essentially ended. In April, the two companies agreed to extend their partnership, but the deal won't bring any new subscribers to TiVo as the satellite company will offer its own DVR service instead. The agreement does ensure that existing DirecTV customers who subscribe to TiVo will continue to receive customer support from DirecTV.

Under the agreement with Comcast, TiVo was paid up front to build a DVR compatible with the cable provider's service, and will receive a monthly fee for each customer who chooses TiVo's DVR service through the cable company. Comcast's current offering includes a hard-drive-based box manufactured by either Motorola or Scientific Atlanta.

Following the announcement that TiVo had snagged Philadelphia-based Comcast and its 23.3 million cable subscribers, Wall Street responded positively, sending shares of TiVo upward. Though the stock has dipped and risen since then, many are reserving judgment until the partnership actually comes to fruition.

Comcast DVR 'very TiVo-like'

"I think the Comcast deal is a major deal for them. They've got most of their eggs in that basket," said Murray Arenson, senior equity analyst for Ferris, Baker Watts. But there's still much to be addressed. For starters, he added, TiVo needs to begin rolling out its product and establishing a demand among Comcast customers for its DVR services.

The initial release seems to have been pushed back, though both parties say nothing has changed. When the deal was first announced last year, Comcast said its first TiVo-brand DVR service would be available in "mid- to late 2006." That timeframe is still accurate, said Comcast spokeswoman Jenni Moyer, and will be available on a limited basis later this year, with a broader rollout planned for 2007, she said.

Customers will be able to choose Comcast's own existing DVR service, which currently has a monthly fee of $9.95, or download the TiVo service right over the Comcast network for a price yet to be announced, Moyer said.

Few details about the actual service have been released, but TiVo director of marketing Jim Denney said the Comcast DVR features will be "very TiVo-like," and will take advantage of the service's famously easy-to-use interface, but won't include all TiVo features.

Comcast's Web site says the upcoming TiVo DVR will be available in "a majority of its markets" and will have features such as the ability to automatically record shows based on past user preferences.

Despite the lack of details, it's clear that there's a definite upside for both companies. Comcast, for its part, can offer its customers the premier brand name in digital video recording.

Access to Comcast's large customer base, meanwhile, should help TiVo in the long run, but only if cable customers see the value in the service. TiVo reported net losses of $6.5 million and net revenue of $59 million for the second fiscal quarter of this year. Revenue increased by 50 percent from the previous quarter, while losses were up more than 620 percent, due to an obligation to fill inventory for the first time in 3,000 Radio Shack stores.

That two-pronged approach--supplying hardware, like the new Series 3, an $800 high-definition DVR aimed at home theater enthusiasts, and licensing software--makes some analysts who monitor the company a bit nervous.

The relatively lower revenue and margins that come with selling an expensive box like the Series 3 make Mark Harding, senior digital media analyst for Maxim Group, skeptical of TiVo's ability to succeed in the standalone box business.

"I look at TiVo as a software R&D shop," he said. "Its interface is very attractive, but trying to do both the software and the hardware in a commoditized concept, and trying to charge a premium price and get a premium return is, I think, very challenging for the company."

Success in attracting new users through the initial Comcast test run could bode well for TiVo in terms of future distribution partnerships.

"TiVo doesn't want to be in the hardware business to the extent they can be a software licensing or services company," said Arenson of Ferris, Baker Watts. "The Comcast deal in particular is a kind of an overlay--it's a download onto an existing platform." The premise, he said, is if it finds success in the Comcast market then it's in a better bargaining position with other, albeit smaller, cable operators.

Partnerships have worked well for TiVo in the past--one in particular. As of the end of the second quarter of 2006, 64 percent of TiVo's subscriber base, or 2.84 million people, comes directly out of its DirecTV relationship, according to data collected by Current Analysis. The two companies renegotiated their contract in April 2006, but TiVo won't get any new customers under the deal as DirecTV has since developed its own DVR service.

In August, TiVo announced an agreement with Cox Communications. Though it can't offer TiVo as many potential customers as Comcast, deals with smaller companies like Cox and its 6.7 million subscribers are still a vital part of TiVo's software licensing strategy. Cox will begin testing the new service in early 2007.

"From an investment standpoint, it's a dangerous sort of story," said Arenson. "I think (TiVo has) proven it can manage its finances that way, and to be pretty creative striking partnerships and offering new features. But, I think it's best to just sit and watch."

http://news.com.com/TiVo+readies+for+prime+time+with+Comcast+-+page+2/2100-1041_3-6130862-2.html?tag=st.num

Tybee

11-02-06, 03:17 PM

aindik

11-02-06, 03:34 PM

bfdtv

11-02-06, 03:57 PM

Interesting. Wish it told us more about what features will and won't be included, though. As someone who has never had Tivo and has one of the rare Comcast DVRs that works like it's supposed to, I'd like to know what compelling reasons there are to upgrade besides a prettier interface and possibly Web-based scheduling.There are dozens of minor usability benefits offered by a Tivo, and they all add up to make a much more effective solution for recording. I'll mention three below:

Guide Customization

With the Tivo software, you can remove channels you don't want completely from the program guide. You can also create customizable favorites lists for different members of the family, accessible through a button on the remote. For example, you can have guide called "Dad's Channels," a guide called "Mom's Channels," and another guide called "Eric's Channels."

Automatic Rescheduling

With the current Comcast software, if you cancel a recording for an episode, that's it. It's cancelled. In contrast, the Tivo searches for reairings of that episode and asks if you want to record them at a later time; if you choose yes, the Tivo software automatically reschedules to catch the next airing of that missed episode.

For example, suppose it's Monday night, and you have season passes (episode recordings) scheduled for Heroes on NBC (9pm) and Justice on FOX (9pm). Suppose your favorite sports team, the Atlanta Falcons, is on ESPN's Monday Night Football and you want to watch that instead. Click MNF in the guide and the Tivo software will check for reairings of your series programs and ask if you want to change channels now and record the re-airing of that Heroes episode on Friday @ 7pm.

Wishlists

With its DVR software, Comcast has copied Tivo's "season pass" feature which lets you record new, new and repeat episodes, and or all episodes with duplicates of a particular program on a particular channel.

In addition to that, Tivo has a feature for channel-independent recording that you won't find with the current Comcast software. This feature is known as "wishlists." Wishlists record content independently of the channel, based on criteria you choose.

As an example, you could create a wishlist for "Professional sports teams" with the "Atlanta Falcons" to record all Falcons games, regardless of the date, time, and channel they are on. These recordings would be neatly organized into an "Atlanta Falcons" folder, with the games inside that folder showing who they were playing, in order by the date of the game. You could do the same for a college sports team, like Georgia Tech.

Wishlists aren't limited to sports. There are dozens of different categories and subcategories to choose from. For example, you could choose to record all westerns with Clint Eastwood that are broadcast in HDTV, regardless of the date, time, and channel. You could choose to record all programs about World War II weaponry, again, regardless of the date, time, and channel.

You can choose to record all programs with a certain keyword in their description, or all programs of a particular genre with with a certain actor, actress, or director. You can choose to record all programs matching a title you define (using an onscreen keyboard), or all programs with a description matching some keywords you enter. As before, all the recordings from a given wishlist are organized into their own folder. You might have a "Clint Eastwood & Westerns & HDTV" folder, with the contents listing the program title, ordered by the date of the recording.

Tybee

11-02-06, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the thorough explanation! Unfortunately, I see two issues here:

1) The usefulness of most of these features would seem to depend on having a large HD, capable of archiving more programs. I have the 3416, thus I have 160 gigs, the largest HD (to my knowledge) Comcast currently offers. But if I record a couple of football games in HD (is there any other way?) and have even a modest backlog of hour and half-hour shows (to say nothing of movies), that hard drive is going to fill pretty quick. Thus, all of that automatic recording of programs I may or may not be interested in is going to be more of a hassle than a help.

2) None of these features would be compelling to my wife, and she's the one who makes the final decisions on cable upgrades. ;)

That said, I am still very interested in the Tivo software and if it were, say, an extra $5 a month, I'd seriously consider upgrading.

sangs

11-02-06, 04:34 PM

1) The usefulness of most of these features would seem to depend on having a large HD, capable of archiving more programs. I have the 3416, thus I have 160 gigs, the largest HD (to my knowledge) Comcast currently offers. But if I record a couple of football games in HD (is there any other way?) and have even a modest backlog of hour and half-hour shows (to say nothing of movies), that hard drive is going to fill pretty quick. Thus, all of that automatic recording of programs I may or may not be interested in is going to be more of a hassle than a help.

Ultimately, in my eyes anyway, that's the rub right there. Small hard drives are already installed in the Comcast DVRs and using a lot of Tivo's "extra" features is going to result in a lot of programming being erased before the end user has had an opportunity to watch. When I was with Directv I had the HD Tivo and it had a large enough hard drive that I very rarely ran into problems like that. You can always mark shows so they are only deleted by you, but then you run into the problem of not having Wish List programming and the like recorded because of insufficient space. It'd be nice if Comcast put larger hard drives in future DVRs - or gave us a way to connect external drives.

bfdtv

11-02-06, 04:47 PM

2) None of these features would be compelling to my wife, and she's the one who makes the final decisions on cable upgrades.It's all the small usability improvements that contribute to a vary high WAF for the Tivo software. These improvements are really heard to qualify in a paragraph or two on a forum, but if you try the Tivo software, chances are your wife won't accept anything less after using it for a week.

brestle

11-02-06, 05:30 PM

It's all the small usability improvements that contribute to a vary high WAF for the Tivo software. These improvements are really heard to qualify in a paragraph or two on a forum, but if you try the Tivo software, chances are your wife won't accept anything less after using it for a week.

LOL...you beat me to that response on the WAF. I used to have the DirecTV TiVo and my wife LOVED it. She'd constantly be recording things, adding season passes, wishlists, etc. She knew the thing inside and out.

With the 6412, she has tried but basically now REFUSES to do anything with the box short of just watching what was set up. Need changes? She calls me in to make them. Between the less intuitive interface (it doesn't just KNOW that I want to swap tuners???) and the quirky behavior (e.g. lost recordings, 1989 recordings, make sure to click confirm after re-prioritizing. etc) she can't stand the box. For someone who could care less about technology, she keeps asking when we can go back to TiVo. Hopefully soon!

formulaben

11-02-06, 05:47 PM

LOL...you beat me to that response on the WAF. I used to have the DirecTV TiVo and my wife LOVED it. She'd constantly be recording things, adding season passes, wishlists, etc. She knew the thing inside and out.

With the 6412, she has tried but basically now REFUSES to do anything with the box short of just watching what was set up. Need changes? She calls me in to make them. Between the less intuitive interface (it doesn't just KNOW that I want to swap tuners???) and the quirky behavior (e.g. lost recordings, 1989 recordings, make sure to click confirm after re-prioritizing. etc) she can't stand the box. For someone who could care less about technology, she keeps asking when we can go back to TiVo. Hopefully soon!

+1.

Paul Simoneau

11-02-06, 08:00 PM

+1.

Absolutely +1. My wife LOVED DirecTiVo, could tolerate the 6412, and abhors the 8300.

jeffden

11-02-06, 08:19 PM

scanpa

11-02-06, 09:10 PM

I can tell you that the Comcast /\/\otorola TiVo DVR software is reported to have wishlists, and season pass.

cheer

11-03-06, 03:21 PM

Absolutely +1. My wife LOVED DirecTiVo, could tolerate the 6412, and abhors the 8300.
+1 here too.

To the OP, your wife will indeed find these things compelling if she tries them. See if you can talk her into trying it for a month. She'll never give it up. Might be the interface, or it might be Wishlists, or auto-rescheduling, or even just the look and feel.

Trust me on this.

cheer

11-03-06, 03:30 PM

One last thing that I hate about the Comcast box is that I have season passes for several shows and if I watch, say, Weeds on Monday and delete it, the Comcast box continues to record it every other night it airs. The TIVO doesn't keep recording re-showings of programs that show up multiple times ( Sopranos, Weeds, etc. ). If it successfully records it on Monday, that's it for automatic recording.
Really? Wow, I had no idea the Comcast box did that.

To those who haven't owned Tivos: Tivos have three types of season passes:
First Run Only -- Only records a first-run episode and never a repeat. Note that an exception to this is that if a conflict develops and the episode is being re-run within a couple of weeks, the re-run will be scheduled. Repeats and First Run -- records new episodes, and re-runs that have not been in the Now Playing List (your list of recordings) or To-Do list within the last 28 days. This is useful if you want to, say, record reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond but you don't want to record anything twice. All (including duplicates) -- records every broadcast of the show, whether first run or re-run, whether it's previously been recorded or not.
These are channel-specific; e.g. if you set up a Season Pass for Star Trek: The Next Generation on G4 it won't also record them off of Spike. Wishlists, as others have mentioned, are similar but are not channel-specific and can be much more powerful.

Tybee

11-03-06, 03:59 PM

Really? Wow, I had no idea the Comcast box did that.

To those who haven't owned Tivos: Tivos have three types of season passes:
First Run Only -- Only records a first-run episode and never a repeat. Note that an exception to this is that if a conflict develops and the episode is being re-run within a couple of weeks, the re-run will be scheduled. Repeats and First Run -- records new episodes, and re-runs that have not been in the Now Playing List (your list of recordings) or To-Do list within the last 28 days. This is useful if you want to, say, record reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond but you don't want to record anything twice. All (including duplicates) -- records every broadcast of the show, whether first run or re-run, whether it's previously been recorded or not.
These are channel-specific; e.g. if you set up a Season Pass for Star Trek: The Next Generation on G4 it won't also record them off of Spike. Wishlists, as others have mentioned, are similar but are not channel-specific and can be much more powerful.

Comcast's DVR has these exact same options. I doubt it works as well, but they are there, nonetheless. And they've worked pretty effectively for me since I got the 3416 two months ago. The only time it gets confused is when the networks switch up the scheduling (as when NBC showed the new episode of Friday Night Lights on both Monday and Tuesday, in which case it recorded both).

HDTV Ready

11-03-06, 04:21 PM

... The only time it gets confused is when ... NBC showed the new episode of Friday Night Lights on both Monday and Tuesday, in which case it recorded both).

This scenario occurs very often on HBO/SHO. They often show the "new" episode many times during the week and the Comcast DVR typically records the show often. With TiVo it only records it once (within a 28 day period).

- Dan

formulaben

11-03-06, 08:23 PM

pdx_David

11-04-06, 12:50 AM

I've had the same re-recording issue, and last night the "S" hit hte fan. My wife had the OC and Grey's Anatomy set up for recording. I even saw the screen that showed it was scheduled to record. Guess what? Neither recorded. This DVR's days are numbered...

Funny, it also hit the fan at my house when I broke the "Grey's Anatomy skips all the way through the recording" news to my wife. Her friend comes over every Friday and they watch it. Luckily it airs again tonight. Plus that was the last straw and I swapped out my 3412 for a 3416 today. I am sure it will end up doing the same thing, but the extra 40gig is nice.

mcamden

11-04-06, 11:05 AM

Here's another vote from the wife acceptance factor with Tivo over the junk that is the 6412. I bought my wife a DirecTivo for Christmas about 4 years ago. She could care less about it when she unwrapped the box. Within a week of use, she fell in love with it. When I switched from DirecTV to Comcast this past winter, I quiickly discovered how much my wife preferred Tivo over the Motorola 6412. Within a week or two of frustrations with the motorola, she pretty much refused to do anything with the box besides just using it to watch tv or stuff that I set up to record. I too came to not like the Motorola, but she absolutely abhors it compared to the Tivo. I finally broke down and bought her a stand alone Tivo dual tuner for mother's day. I'm looking forward to the Tivo upgrade for the 6412, so I can get rid of the somehwat unwieldy solution of having the stand alone in the stream.

JustDave

11-05-06, 01:41 AM

I just want the remote to have a decent response time. And for the priority list to not fall apart whenever I delete a show. And for the tuners to swap automatically. And for the DVI output to auto-resize the video. And when the power goes out, I'd like the guide data to not disappear. I'd like Comcast to fix all the bugs where I get one-minute recordings and missed recordings. I could care less about wishlists and season passes and all that nonsense.

pappy97

11-06-06, 08:03 PM

Ultimately, in my eyes anyway, that's the rub right there. Small hard drives are already installed in the Comcast DVRs and using a lot of Tivo's "extra" features is going to result in a lot of programming being erased before the end user has had an opportunity to watch. When I was with Directv I had the HD Tivo and it had a large enough hard drive that I very rarely ran into problems like that. You can always mark shows so they are only deleted by you, but then you run into the problem of not having Wish List programming and the like recorded because of insufficient space. It'd be nice if Comcast put larger hard drives in future DVRs - or gave us a way to connect external drives.

The 3412 box I have has a SATA port on the back. Maybe they will enable that when they do the TiVo software upgrade so we can add a huge external HDD? Anyone know anything about the SATA port on it?

That would make me VERY happy!

cypherstream

11-06-06, 08:51 PM

And I would like there not to be an untitled recording with a date of 12/31/1989. It says 19 minutes of Celebrity Paranormal Project on VH1 but it doesn't play or delete. It messes up the DVR's live buffer where you have to unplug it.

I think I'd love to try Tivo.

scanpa

11-06-06, 09:56 PM

The 3412 box I have has a SATA port on the back. Maybe they will enable that when they do the TiVo software upgrade so we can add a huge external HDD? Anyone know anything about the SATA port on it?

That would make me VERY happy!

That is the eSata port and it is currently disable due to a DRM issue with external HDD. Moto & Comcast and 2 other companies are working to fix this problem.

They hope to have a fix out in 2007.

halo0

11-07-06, 12:24 PM

I have no idea Tybee. All I know is I had 3 6412's and they were all pos. The 3416 is the second one I've had but this one, even though the HDMI doesn't work, is the best dvr, outside of my Tivo, that I've ever used. The picture on component is identical to the HDMI picture (converted to DVI for my TV)

If the HDMI doesn't work, how can the component picture be identical to the HDMI? Please clarify, as I'm planning on using the HDMI output! BTW, do they give you an HDMI cable with the box?

mazman49

11-07-06, 02:32 PM

That is the eSata port and it is currently disable due to a DRM issue with external HDD. Moto & Comcast and 2 other companies are working to fix this problem.

They hope to have a fix out in 2007.
Do we know if eSata will be a Comcast provided/supported option, or will users be able to implement it?

scanpa

11-07-06, 03:31 PM

We will all find out sometime in 2007.

Like I said they are currently working on the changes to the software code.

scanpa

11-07-06, 03:37 PM

do they give you an HDMI cable with the box?

No.

New DVR users will sometimes get 5 wire component Video / audio cables.

madboysx

11-07-06, 04:35 PM

My local Comc*st office will offer hdmi-hdmi, hdmi-dvi or component cables as needed. Of course, they can't make the hdmi cables work, that is beyond the power of anyone at Comc*st.

halo0

11-07-06, 04:49 PM

My local Comc*st office will offer hdmi-hdmi, hdmi-dvi or component cables as needed. Of course, they can't make the hdmi cables work, that is beyond the power of anyone at Comc*st.

is this an issue with every box, like it is disabled? Or select boxes with bugs? Or something else?

ZipperSeven

11-07-06, 04:54 PM

Comcast's DVR has these exact same options. I doubt it works as well, but they are there, nonetheless. And they've worked pretty effectively for me since I got the 3416 two months ago. The only time it gets confused is when the networks switch up the scheduling (as when NBC showed the new episode of Friday Night Lights on both Monday and Tuesday, in which case it recorded both).

Yeah, it has the same options, but the way that it handles them is pretty dumb.

Consider a case that I had about a year ago. My g/f and I started watching Alias, as it was the last season. I'd pretty much watched the series thru but my g/f didn't really catch on until half way thru the series. So, on Comcast, there was both a SD and HD broadcast of new eps, as well as HD reruns on TNT-HD. Compound that with the fact that the local ABC affiliate would rerun the new eps on odd saturdays.

Setting up a series record to record *everything* was easy. You just hit all channels. But we didn't want to record any SD eps, or the local affiliate re-run eps. And you couldn't make a series record for the new ABC HD eps *and* the TNT-HD eps. You could set up a series record for 'Alias' in general. So we ended up setting up the series record for the TNT-HD eps (as they recorded daily) and manually set up the new ABC-HD eps. Really, more work than was needed.

I don't know for sure that having the TiVo software would make that particular example easier, but I know that when we set up a Season Pass for a particularly prolific show (Stargate maybe) on a friend's TiVo, it didn't seem nearly that hard.