From what I read above, it appears that ONLY Moto boxes will get the Tivo option. Is that true? I'm pretty sure my area is all SA... bummer.

Though the tiny hard drive remains an issue regardless of the software. Doesn't anyone at Comcast know how much space HD recordings take?The port will only run on the Moto boxes, and if they want it to run on any other hardware platform they will have to port it again. I don't think Comcast has closed the door on that, but I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

If you ask me, it was shortsighted of Comcast/TiVo not to port the TiVo software to OCAP. But maybe the TiVo software is just too complex to port to OCAP so they had no choice. Either way, it sucks that it's Moto only.

Man, they just keep coming up with reasons to keep me with satellite... oh well.

I'm completely fed up with my 3412. It does what its supposed to so intermittently that it's almost useless.

The way it handles repeats of shows you have already recorded and deleted is really dumb. I'm always manually removing scheduled recordings to avoid conflicts with shows I actually want to record and haven't been aired yet. I'd change the priorities of my shows in the main list, but we all know that doesn't work! I've had so many freezes and bizarre behavior with the priority list that I'm literally afraid to touch it at all. I especially like how the numbers listed along the left side aren't sequential and have duplicates and gaps in the ranges. I like how sometimes the unit, if it has multiple conflicts and you try to remove them individually, you often get no recordings at all.

I make software for a living. I am involved with some IPTV set top box development as well, and let me tell you -- the Comcast software is SHAMEFULLY bad, I can't explain it any other way. That they put this crap out the door is a travesty.

That all being said -- I will wait, possibly patiently, up until the beginning of next year. I want to try the Tivo/Comcast DVR before I pony up $800 bucks for the S3 Tivo. But if it's not released before February or March, I'm likely to be forced to go S3 Tivo, or maybe back to satellite with NO chance of Tivo.

I miss my 5 year old DirecTivo SO MUCH every day.

Man, they just keep coming up with reasons to keep me with satellite... oh well.I got tired of the wait myself and got a new Series3. I absolutely love it. I highly recommend it, if you can stomach the price tag.

The port will only run on the Moto boxes, and if they want it to run on any other hardware platform they will have to port it again. I don't think Comcast has closed the door on that, but I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

So what's going to happen then when they move to the Panny boxes? Are those just not going to be capable of running the Tivo software? I was under the impression that Comcast was replacing the Moto boxes with Panasonic -- not just adding them.

So what's going to happen then when they move to the Panny boxes? Are those just not going to be capable of running the Tivo software? I was under the impression that Comcast was replacing the Moto boxes with Panasonic -- not just adding them.

No. Comcast will still use the Motorola DCT-64xx &34xx Series STB when they convert all of the cable plants / Headends to OCAP. The Motorola 64xx & 34xx are already OCAP ready.

Comcast is still getting new shipments of Moto DCT series STB. However, Comcast went with Panasonic for New HD DVR STB that will be added to the Current inventory.

There would be no way to replace every single Moto DVR out there.

Yes there will be a Comcast - TiVo Software release for both the SA8300HD, and the New Panasonic HD DVR250's and one for the PACE SD DVR will be out sometime in 2007/2008.

No. Comcast will still use the Motorola DCT-64xx &34xx Series STB when they convert all of the cable plants / Headends to OCAP. The Motorola 64xx & 34xx are already OCAP ready.

Comcast is still getting new shipments of Moto DCT series STB. However, Comcast went with Panasonic for New HD DVR STB that will be added to the Current inventory.

There would be no way to replace every single Moto DVR out there.

Yes there will be a Comcast - TiVo Software release for both the SA8300HD, and the New Panasonic HD DVR250's and one for the PACE SD DVR will be out sometime in 2007/2008.

Thanks for the clarification, scanpa.

I'm completely fed up with my 3412. It does what its supposed to so intermittently that it's almost useless.A lot of people go through frustrations getting used to the 34xx/64xx idiosynchrosies. However, after a time, many of us have realized just how valuable the 34xx/64xx really is. The problems it has can be overcome. You may have to swap out the box a few times to get through the problematic ones, but then you'll have a very acceptable HD DVR.

The way it handles repeats of shows you have already recorded and deleted is really dumb.Blame this, at least partially, on the networks, who report shows as "new" when they're really repeats. The TiVo has a feature whereby it won't record shows that it has recorded within the past thirty days -- however the TiVo costs $800 up-front, plus $20 per month, plus your cable fees, plus CableCard rental for the "extra" CableCard, PLUS it has severe problems with it that could make it totally "useless" for you (as I encountered).

I make software for a living. I am involved with some IPTV set top box development as well, and let me tell you -- the Comcast software is SHAMEFULLY bad, I can't explain it any other way. That they put this crap out the door is a travesty. Comcast doesn't make software. They purchase what is arguably the best software available for the Motorola DVRs. As a matter of fact, they're spending lots of money investing in a port of TiVo software to the Motorola DVRs, so we can have better software.

I think the problem really is that too few customers are using the software, and / or too few customers are consistently and clearly reporting the problems they encounter, combined with the fact that there is a disconnect between the service provider and the software developers. You'll always have more difficulty getting high-quality software when you have that disconnect. However, keep in mind that without that disconnect you still have higher prices (just look at how much it would cost to have a Series 3 TiVo in your house!!!! $800 up-front, plus $20 per month, plus your cable fees, plus CableCard rental for the "extra" CableCard -- and even then, as I mentioned earlier, you could still encounter the problems I had with the Series 3 TiVo that made it completely useless to me), since that higher quality carries with it more costs.

If you ask me, it was shortsighted of Comcast/TiVo not to port the TiVo software to OCAP. But maybe the TiVo software is just too complex to port to OCAP so they had no choice. Either way, it sucks that it's Moto only.

Perhaps it didn't make sense to port to OCAP at the time the decision was made. As far as I can tell, OCAP is still a somewhat moving target. Go back in time a year or two, and it's an even faster moving and more unpredictable target. Given the choice between porting to a stable platform (existing native 64xx codebase) and OCAP (evolving and unstable platform), I know exactly where I'd want to start porting my code...

Comcast does not have 1 single cable plant / headend 100% setup yet for OCAP. Last I heard there were 4 already undergoing the setup so far to begin testing of OCAP middleware.

In My Area Reading PA & Harrisburg PA are due to begin instalation of the equipment in early 2007

Lancater & Bucks & Philadelphia area mid 2007 area.

Remember they are still rolling out CDV in many markets, this product has top priority for Comcast right now. (and seems to be working, acording to the latest stats on signups!)

One thing lacking on the Series 3 cable-card TiVo is VOD.

Does anyone know (for Sure) if TiVo like software on Motorolla STB will support VOD / PPV ?

One thing lacking on the Series 3 cable-card TiVo is VOD.

Does anyone know (for Sure) if TiVo like software on Motorolla STB will support VOD / PPV ?

Well, I don't know for sure, but since PPV and VOD is a HUGE revenue stream for Comcast, I find it extremely unlikely that the Tivo software won't handle it just fine.

One thing lacking on the Series 3 cable-card TiVo is VOD.

Does anyone know (for Sure) if TiVo like software on Motorolla STB will support VOD / PPV ?

Yes. Same as the I-Guide software.

I just switched to Comcast because my DirecTV Tivo died on me the other day. Obviously, the thing is a total dog and I hate it already. Does anybody know (I'm in Arlington VA):

Is the Tivo software going to be rolled out for the Scientific Atlanta boxes at the same time as the Motorola boxes (around February 07)? If not, will I be able to replace my SA box with a Motorola box? If neither of these are possible, whats the best way for me to go about getting real Tivo???

I just switched to Comcast because my DirecTV Tivo died on me the other day. Obviously, the thing is a total dog and I hate it already. Does anybody know (I'm in Arlington VA):

Is the Tivo software going to be rolled out for the Scientific Atlanta boxes at the same time as the Motorola boxes (around February 07)? If not, will I be able to replace my SA box with a Motorola box? If neither of these are possible, whats the best way for me to go about getting real Tivo???

Buy a Series 3 certified 'real' High Definition TiVo :p

It is my understanding that the SA units will get the TiVo software later (if at all) tthan the Moto boxes.

The S3 is already known to work fine with Comcast in Arlington, as well as FIOS there.

By a Series 3 certified 'real' High Definition TiVo :p

It is my understanding that the SA units will get the TiVo software later (if at all) tthan the Moto boxes.

The S3 is already known to work fine with Comcast in Arlington, as well as FIOS there.



The S3 will not support PPV or ON Demand.

ajwees41

Is the Tivo software going to be rolled out for the Scientific Atlanta boxes at the same time as the Motorola boxes (around February 07)?

No, the SA STB Tivo-Comcast Software port is not due till end of 2007 at the earliest.


If not, will I be able to replace my SA box with a Motorola box?


No, the SA's work on a different type of cable system then the Motorola's


If neither of these are possible, whats the best way for me to go about getting real Tivo???


Buy the s3 HD TiVo

Ok, so if they gave me an SA box, can I request that Comcast trade it out for the Motorola box when the time comes? Is it luck of the draw, or is my whole region stuck with SA boxes?? Do you mean that the Motorola boxes literally wouldn't work on the infrastructure in my area? Therefore, the whole Arlington/Alexandria area is out of luck for the Tivo deal? Sorry, thats a lot of questions. I'm so annoyed....I thought I would only have to deal with this thing for a few months.

I'd really love to get an S3, but I have a very hard time swallowing the $800 hardware cost (or even $650 or so on ebay). Hopefully that will come down soon, but that's unlikely right? Tivo seems hard-up for cash with their price hike last week.

The S3 will not support PPV or ON Demand.



Whoopty-###in-Doo.

Are you seriously trying to say that is something most people will miss, given a plethora of digital channels and Gigs (and later, even Terrabytes) of space to store HiDef programming on?

;)

I'd really love to get an S3, but I have a very hard time swallowing the $800 hardware cost (or even $650 or so on ebay). Hopefully that will come down soon, but that's unlikely right? Tivo seems hard-up for cash with their price hike last week.

It's not just unreliable sellers on ebay who offer the S3 for 650. The TiVo store, weaknees, ptvupgrade (watch for coupons) Best Buy/CC (frequent 12% coupons, mondo cash- or points- back.

The price was difficult to swallow, but it was worth it for my peace of mind. I am already happily forgetting the ridiculous UI on the 6412. The SA is even worse!

Whoopty-###in-Doo.

Are you seriously trying to say that is something most people will miss, given a plethora of digital channels and Gigs (and later, even Terrabytes) of space to store HiDef programming on?

I don't use those services much, but others in my house sure do.

The S3 will not support PPV or ON Demand.
If you get a TiVo S3 and want VOD and PPV, you can add a free cable box for those features. See the second to last Q/A in the FAQ here (http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq/FaqDetails.ashx?ID=2540).

Ok, so if they gave me an SA box, can I request that Comcast trade it out for the Motorola box when the time comes?


No

Is it luck of the draw, or is my whole region stuck with SA boxes??

If they use SA STB, then your stuck with SA STB.

Do you mean that the Motorola boxes literally wouldn't work on the infrastructure in my area? Therefore, the whole Arlington/Alexandria area is out of luck for the Tivo deal?

Correct

Until next Year, when they port the TiVo software for the SA8300HD STB Models.

Sorry, thats a lot of questions. I'm so annoyed....I thought I would only have to deal with this thing for a few months.

No Problem. Most of us here like to help.

A little longer then a few months.


I'd really love to get an S3, but I have a very hard time swallowing the $800 hardware cost (or even $650 or so on ebay). Hopefully that will come down soon, but that's unlikely right? Tivo seems hard-up for cash with their price hike last week.

S3 TiVo DVR will unlikely go down to a fair price anytime soon.

Comcast does not have 1 single cable plant / headend 100% setup yet for OCAP. Last I heard there were 4 already undergoing the setup so far to begin testing of OCAP middleware.
Does a cable-plant need to have OCAP setup in order for the Panny DVRs to be rolled out?

Does a cable-plant need to have OCAP setup in order for the Panny DVRs to be rolled out?

Yes!

And I would like there not to be an untitled recording with a date of 12/31/1989. It says 19 minutes of Celebrity Paranormal Project on VH1 but it doesn't play or delete. It messes up the DVR's live buffer where you have to unplug it.

I think I'd love to try Tivo.

Try this fix (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#There_is_a_recording_with_a_blank_title_and_a_date_of_1 2.2F31.2F1989) and see if it helps.

Anyone hear that the Comcast TIVO rollout will be delayed till spring or summer of 2007? Heard this on broadbandreports.com under the Comcast forum.

Anyone hear that the Comcast TIVO rollout will be delayed till spring or summer of 2007? Heard this on broadbandreports.com under the Comcast forum.

:(

Anyone hear that the Comcast TIVO rollout will be delayed till spring or summer of 2007? Heard this on broadbandreports.com under the Comcast forum.

It's true, that the main Roll-Out for the TiVo Comcast Motorola DVR Software has been pushed from Jan. 2007 till Mid / late April now. :(

However the Few Test Markets will only be delayed till late Jan 2007 for the Public Roll Out instead of Late Dec. 2006.

:(

It's true, that the main Roll-Out for the TiVo Comcast Motorola DVR Software has been pushed from Jan. 2007 till Mid / late April now. :(

However the Few Test Markets will only be delayed till late Jan 2007 for the Public Roll Out instead of Late Dec. 2006.

:(

Well that sucks, but if it is because of quality control issues, perhaps it is better to wait for a stable high quality product, than one which is rushed out the door to meet a certain deadline.

Thanks for your information, as always you've been helpful!

It's true, that the main Roll-Out for the TiVo Comcast Motorola DVR Software has been pushed from Jan. 2007 till Mid / late April now. :(

However the Few Test Markets will only be delayed till late Jan 2007 for the Public Roll Out instead of Late Dec. 2006.

Gaaah, really? That kills me. I hate the setup I have now (SD cable box slaved to Tivo, and a second HD cable box so I don't have to be tied to the first box and for...well, watching HD) and I keep telling myself "it's only for a few months, then I can replace it all with one box." And I will not go with the vanilla Motorola DVR, especially after all of the complaints I've read here about it.

Is one of the Few Test Markets Seattle, by any chance? Who do I have to kill to make that happen? :)

jlarosa,

That is correct if your Comcast market uses Scientific Atlanta equipment. That information is not correct if your market uses Motorola equipment. Markets with Motorola equipment will be getting the Tivo software as an extra-cost option within the next 60-120 days.

When the Tivo software for Motorola STBs is available, you will hear about it here well before customer service knows anything.

the comcast customer service is a joke with this. i just called and they have no clue what im talking about most of the time. this 1 guy i just called said he knows everything about the tivo deal...he proceeds to tell me it is a dead deal, there is no such thing as a comcast tivo box and never will be and there is no such thing as a download for motorola users lol. i had told him that the plans are in the works but he basically said i was misinformed, that i could go and buy the s3 to use.

does anyone know when it will be available for SA users? after reading the forum it seems some are saying it will be out in 2007, some say 2007 but later then motorola, and some say SA will never be rolled out due to compatibility issues. does anyone have a definitive answer to this or do i need to start saving to buy the s3?

Well, excellent ... as soon as FiOS is finally set up here (it's available a mile away now) I have no tempt-/oblig-ation to stick with AdelCast :) Of course, I'm not even remotely unhappy with then, especially since my CableCards work flawlessly in the S3 TiVo and they just bumped up my bandwidth (8/0.8) ... but choice is great!

does anyone know when it will be available for SA users? after reading the forum it seems some are saying it will be out in 2007, some say 2007 but later then motorola, and some say SA will never be rolled out due to compatibility issues. does anyone have a definitive answer to this or do i need to start saving to buy the s3?There isn't likely to be a release for SA before 2008. Work on it hasn't even started.

If your market uses SA boxes, you might want to start saving for the Tivo Series3.

Anyone know if the Tivo software on Moto STB will include any of the current Tivo "Home Media features" and home networking (USB/Ethernet) support? We use the Tivo Series 2 all the time to view Photos on our TVs over a wireless network, from a remote computer running Tivo Desktop software. I can't do without that feature, but also shy away from the pricetag of the Series 3 Tivo.

Anyone know if the Tivo software on Moto STB will include any of the current Tivo "Home Media features" and home networking (USB/Ethernet) support? We use the Tivo Series 2 all the time to view Photos on our TVs over a wireless network, from a remote computer running Tivo Desktop software. I can't do without that feature, but also shy away from the pricetag of the Series 3 Tivo.

The Comcast - TiVo deal was ONLY for coding the DVR software and interface.

However, they are also working to add a remote scheduling feature, where users of the TiVo DVR can log in on the WWW and adjust DVR settings & recordings.

Anyone know if the Tivo software on Moto STB will include any of the current Tivo "Home Media features" and home networking (USB/Ethernet) support? We use the Tivo Series 2 all the time to view Photos on our TVs over a wireless network, from a remote computer running Tivo Desktop software. I can't do without that feature, but also shy away from the pricetag of the Series 3 Tivo.

IIRC, Tivo had to drop a lot of their "Home Media" features from the S3 in order gain CableLABS certification (i.e. no Tivo-To-Go or sharing shows across multiple Tivo's). Judging by scanpa's response, I'm guessing this won't be in the Comcast box as well.

It's true, that the main Roll-Out for the TiVo Comcast Motorola DVR Software has been pushed from Jan. 2007 till Mid / late April now. :(

However the Few Test Markets will only be delayed till late Jan 2007 for the Public Roll Out instead of Late Dec. 2006.

:(

Well isn't that just comcrapstic. ScanPA, thanks as always for keeping us in the loop. I guess I too would prefer a less buggy release, but I'm so sick of hiccups with the current 6412/i-guide combo that I guess I would put up with a few Tivo bugs.

My Motorola box recently received a push which changed the menus slightly and removed all the "zombie" recordings I couldn't delete. Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems to be slightly more responsive now, too (still nothing near what my TiVo used to be)... This latest delay is very frustrating, but at least they seem to be making *some* effort to have the Motos not suck so much.

How do you track those changes? Just looking at the software version?

How do you track those changes? Just looking at the software version?
Outside of obvious visible changes, just keep on eye on some of the other forums both here on AVS Forum and elsewhere. The new 16.20 firmware/74.53-3321 software has been spreading around the country for the past few months as headends are updated to handle some of the new features.

You can see some information in the Wikibook:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Firmware_and_Software

If you get a TiVo S3 and want VOD and PPV, you can add a free cable box for those features. See the second to last Q/A in the FAQ here (http://www.comcast.com/customers/faq/FaqDetails.ashx?ID=2540).

I love my upgraded (2 160GB) Series 2 Tivo but I also like my VOD. I hate having to clear or reference my Tivo "To Do" queue to see if I can watch a VOD show. That said, having a Series 3 (with 2 CCs), a Comcast HD STB (for HD VOD, and my Series 2 seems like too much stuff hooked to my plasma display and too much $$. I might need to get another electrical heavy up :rolleyes: to support this.

We primarily watch TV via the Tivo. Kidzone and other Tivo features are a must.
Comcast HD VOD is getting better. Love that Starwars HD on Cinemax. Real 1080i.
This Comcast Tivo DVR had given me hope but I'm not sure it will be worth the wait.

Any thoughts to bring back my sanity?
weaKnees has a $100 off deal that ends 11/30.

Well, excellent ... as soon as FiOS is finally set up here (it's available a mile away now) I have no tempt-/oblig-ation to stick with AdelCast :) Of course, I'm not even remotely unhappy with then, especially since my CableCards work flawlessly in the S3 TiVo and they just bumped up my bandwidth (8/0.8) ... but choice is great!

Hi ashu-
I'm just glancing over this thread for the first time, and I see you are in Loudoun also. I'm in Leesburg and they are piping FIOS in my 'hood now. I'm currently a DTV customer with a DTV HD-TiVo. Family is addicted to the TiVo interface, but nothing else is holding me back. I'm not a Sunday Ticket subscriber, for example. Also, it burns me to pay Adelphia $60/mo just for internet. Anyway, I had a couple of local interest questions. Is the box that Adelphia (Comcast, now, I guess) gives in our area a Motorola? Anyone know when it will be getting TiVo as an option? Or are we stuck with an SA system locally? How about Verizon FIOS? Any TiVo plans there bundled, or would I need a SA Series 3 as you describe? If so, would the FIOS still have limitations like the Comcast/S3 users have, like no PPV or VOD? Thanks for any feedback. Finally, an idea of approx. pricing for packages on both Comcast local and FIOS would be apprecaited if you've looked into it. I need to plan my next strategy going forward.

Hi ashu-
I'm just glancing over this thread for the first time, and I see you are in Loudoun also. I'm in Leesburg and they are piping FIOS in my 'hood now. I'm currently a DTV customer with a DTV HD-TiVo. Family is addicted to the TiVo interface, but nothing else is holding me back. I'm not a Sunday Ticket subscriber, for example. Also, it burns me to pay Adelphia $60/mo just for internet. Anyway, I had a couple of local interest questions. Is the box that Adelphia (Comcast, now, I guess) gives in our area a Motorola? Anyone know when it will be getting TiVo as an option? Or are we stuck with an SA system locally? How about Verizon FIOS? Any TiVo plans there bundled, or would I need a SA Series 3 as you describe? If so, would the FIOS still have limitations like the Comcast/S3 users have, like no PPV or VOD? Thanks for any feedback. Finally, an idea of approx. pricing for packages on both Comcast local and FIOS would be apprecaited if you've looked into it. I need to plan my next strategy going forward.

That's 11 million questions, but let me try my best ...

- Lucky dog. No FIOS progress here yet, still 1 mile away. Haven't loked into pricing, but speeds/tiers offered seem on par with the Arlington system
- AdelCast provided me with a 6412 Phase III DVR with a 120GB Seagate drive. Buggy as all heck, even with what seems to be the planet's newest software. It's just my storage backup for the S3 TiVo for now, and I'll only keep it if it seems TiVo software will be coming soon. Otherwise I'm getting anotehr S3 TiVo :) Ajwees41 and other knowledgable (about Comcast) folks have mentioned the delays in getting TiVo software onto the Moto boxes (many more months, at best)
- FYI FIOS also provides the same bo, but with an older software revision, and no (near-term) possibility of TiVo software. Some FIOS regions (like some Comcast regions) have the 3412/3416 as well. marginally better is the best I'v heard. Still no S3!
- I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER used PPV, and I can do without OnDemand. I can't watch what my TiVos record, why bother hunting down more crud? :)
- I'm still waiting for my 1st Comcast bill, but with some generous retention discounts, I'm paying in the low 3 figures for Internet and Cable (including digital, all premiums, and the $5 add-on HD package (HDNet, inHD ...) from Adelphia. My 2 Cable Cards will supposedly cost $2 each, or $6 each (which is ILLEGAL) ... waiting for my first bill with CC's.

It's true, that the main Roll-Out for the TiVo Comcast Motorola DVR Software has been pushed from Jan. 2007 till Mid / late April now. :(

However the Few Test Markets will only be delayed till late Jan 2007 for the Public Roll Out instead of Late Dec. 2006.

:(

Hey scanpa, would you happen to have seen a list of test markets? I know of at least 2 users who would love to test out the new TiVo software here in Tallahassee.

I just got back from my mother's place in Ashburn, VA, and the FIOS TV that she had was not bad at all. Her set is an older Toshiba RPTV (480), but the picture quality was amazing. Even lower channel numbers were crystal clear - can't say the same for my Adelphia.

I have 2 Series2 TiVos, and have been waiting for the Comcast switch-over before I go HD/DVR. Though I love the TiVo software, the FIOS DVR wasn't hard to use and seemed functional enough in a pinch. I'm not sure how it compares to current Comcast DVRs - I've never used one.

Any news about the Comcast/TiVo box? It seems like we've been waiting forever.

Todd

Without even knowing if Portland was a test market, I went to the local Comcast office and submitted a request for beta testing. The form had an area at the bottom to specify your need/request. Hopefully I'll hear something soon!

...still waiting... :(

Last word was 1Q07, so figure by March.

Without even knowing if Portland was a test market, I went to the local Comcast office and submitted a request for beta testing. The form had an area at the bottom to specify your need/request. Hopefully I'll hear something soon!
I also requested to beta test the service. They replied that the use employees here in Jersey.

I live in Ashburn, VA as well.
No FIOS yet but it seems to be very close as in every neighborhood within 2 miles seems to have it already.

Verizon doesn't even provide DSL to most my neighborhood. I guess they just decided to hold off on the copper since the FIOS was being rolled out soon.

I'm stuck with Adelphia for the time being. I called Adelphia and they are expecting to convert my home over to Comcast sometime in mid December. They are in mid switch right now.

I currently use Adelphia for both Cable and Internet services.
Although I plan to dump the Internet side of things once FIOS hits my neighborhood.

FIOS seems to offer much more bang for the buck in terms of bandwidth.

I may even try the FIOS TV service depending on what type of promotions they offer and what type of HD channel line-up they have when its implemented . I've seen a friends FIOS system and wasn't too impressed with the GUIDE and DVR navigation. It's definately better than my Motorolla/ Adelphia setup. Pictue Quality seems better too.

I've heard good things about the Tivo S3 Picture quality in comparison to the Motorollas.
I really want to try it out and see for myself.

I'll keep you posted but probably won't implement a change in my setup till after the holidays.




Adelphia currently uses the Motorolla box for HD/DVR in my area.
To be honest it really sucks. The navigation is HORRIBLE and its flakey on the DVR side of things.
Short pauses switching in and out, poor guide navigation etc.

I thought the Dish Network had a much more user friendly DVR and controller. It's the closest thing to a Tivo I was able to find so far.

My parents use Dish Network and their HD TV feed seems to have much better picture quality on the same make/model TV as mine.

(Sony 46' LCD we purchased from Costco a few weeks back.)

Costco has a decent deal on S3 Tivos right now

$649.99

Expires on 12/17/06

Given their outstanding return policy I think its worth a shot to compare.

It will probably be another 6-12 months before I actually see FIOS in my neighborhood anyway.

Another 6-12 months before Comcast even provides TIVO services to it's residents. Even then it will probably be buggy as hell compared to an authentic S3 Tuner :)

I figure I'll save monthly in the Receiver Rental fees and Adelphia DVR rental fees.
After applying the TIVO montly fees it will probably be a wash.

I need to find out how much they will charge me for the Cable Cards and crunch the numbers.

Wow - that was a lot of stream-of-cnsciousness for one post :)

I have an S3 (in Ashburn) and can confirm it works with the head-end, and their Motorola CableCards. Get one already!

And I have no idea what you're talking about with HD quaity being better on Dish. I had Dish HD that I dumped because the quality was subpar on my 1080P TV for many channels (there were various other issues as well), and Adelphia's HD is vastly superior! Your parents may have better lighting in their TV room - that can make a massive difference!

Must be. I've compared Comcast to Dish and DirecTV and Comcast's PQ is far superior, easily rivaling (and in some ways exceeding) OTA.

Granted, in some regions Comcast (but not as much as Time Warnr, from what I hear) overcompresses their channels too, but the norm is (and I have observed this, except te admittedly exaggerated DTV positioning) ...

OTA quality > Cable >>> Dish >>>>>>> DirecTV.

This was posted on DSL reports.

I was told the testing was in Philadelphia and Delaware by Employee Families.

but this article says Denver. so who knows. All I know is the training was moved to next year in late Jan.


http://multichannel.com/article/CA6400579.html?display=Search+Results&text=comcast

Posted from EngadgetHD:

Comcast starts testing TiVo software

Posted Dec 19th 2006 5:58PM by Ben Drawbaugh
Filed under: Industry, DVRs, Cable
TiVo ComcastIt has been almost two years since Comcast and TiVo announced plans to deliver TiVo software to Comcast customers on existing Motorola hardware and many expected to have then in their homes by now. While a Series 3 will still set you back a good chunk of change, Comcast continues to rent the Motorola DVR to customers for less than TiVo's monthly service fee. This partnership should give Comcast customers some middle ground between what some say is inadequate software and an expensive 3rd party alternative, but they have just now started to test the software don't expect to do market tests until the spring. On top of this they still refuse to give a hard date for the release to the wild, but they are saying "2007". As disappointed as we are that we have to continue to wait, we do understand their challenges. TiVo has to write their software to not only work with the Motorola hardware and Comcast network, but also to integrated with other Comcast services such as VOD and "TV Navigator". To top it all off the software is to be deployed via a download without ever requiring a visit from the cable guy for those who already have a Comcast DVR.

Santa didn't bring me Tivo software for my buggy DVR... :(

Santa didn't bring me Tivo software for my buggy DVR... :(

Well, at least your buggy has a DVR. My buggy only has a CD player.

i'm not holding out much hope for the tivo software magically making all better on my 6412. i don't think tivo is writing "to the metal" rather working atop a software layer provided by moto/comcast.

and we know what a joy moto/comcast has brought us so far...

jim

While I haven't posted enough times for this board to allow me to post links, I recommend everyone search WSJ for either Walt Mossberg or the story title "The HDTV Dilemma: Pay for TiVo's Recorder Or Settle for Cable's?" that just posted this (12/28) morning.

I think the article fairly reflects most of the sentiment of members of this board...

His final comment: "But, for now, the choice is tough. The Comcast high-definition DVR is a cheaper, but flawed product and the TiVo Series3 is an excellent, but overpriced one."

Happy New Year,

While I haven't posted enough times for this board to allow me to post links, I recommend everyone search WSJ for either Walt Mossberg or the story title "The HDTV Dilemma: Pay for TiVo's Recorder Or Settle for Cable's?" that just posted this (12/28) morning.

Here is the link to the article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116726248529661013.html?mod=technology_featured_stories_hs ) , but you must be a subscriber to read it all.

Here is the link to the article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116726248529661013.html?mod=technology_featured_stories_hs ) , but you must be a subscriber to read it all.

Or you could use this link instead (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html)

Or bugmenot. Oh, or not! (http://www.bugmenot.com/view/www.wsj.com)
Well, that's reason enough for me not to use WSJ any more unless I see the article elsewhere!

Or you could use this link instead (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html)

"But, for now, the choice is tough. The Comcast high-definition DVR is a cheaper, but flawed product and the TiVo Series3 is an excellent, but overpriced one."

Yeah, it's actually not a tough choice. $800 for a DVR, plus the subscription fee? No thanks.

Excellent article that hits most of the important points. A buggy, flawed DVR with primitive functionality and ads that take up 20% of the already paltry on-screen guide versus the excellent but overpriced Tivo alternative.

"But, for now, the choice is tough. The Comcast high-definition DVR is a cheaper, but flawed product and the TiVo Series3 is an excellent, but overpriced one."

Yeah, it's actually not a tough choice. $800 for a DVR, plus the subscription fee? No thanks.

800 plus sub.

Or 600 (or even less) if you diligently hunt down deals, plus 500ish for Lifetime, or 299 for 3 years (or 6.95 a month if this isn't your first unit)

But everyone who isn't buying one enjoys touting the worst-case price estimates, so don't let me stop you :)

Or you could use this link instead (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html)


Face on me. I went there first and it wasn't up yet...grrr.

If cable boxes were sold at retail like consumer-electronics devices, the Comcast DVR I tested, built by Motorola, would get creamed by better competitors.

:p :p

I've been saying this for a long time, these Moto boxes would never make it in an open, competitive market.

BTW, Dell was running a special on the S3 for about $560-shipping free, so I would expect that come the new year the S3 price will drop considerably.

Two things are keeping me from seriously considering the S3 - price and lack of OnDemand. Although I don't use it often, I think Comcast is going to continue to push more content to VOD as a competitive edge with DBS.

I'll wait for awhile longer to see what the Comcast Tivo interface offers and the price of the S3 should drop in the meantime. Since I need two, even $600/unit is steep. However, $400 or so would start to hit my price point.

People people people people - do you NOT know the specs on the S3? It DOES OnDemand but you need TWO cable cards in order to do it! And I need to get the S3 for @$400 NOW so I can xfr my lifetime subscription...otherwise i'll continue to use my Comcast PVR for HD shows and my TiVo for non-HD shows...

Excellent article that hits most of the important points. A buggy, flawed DVR with primitive functionality and ads that take up 20% of the already paltry on-screen guide versus the excellent but overpriced Tivo alternative.And the typical J6P will choose the former over the latter everytime.

People people people people - do you NOT know the specs on the S3? It DOES OnDemand but you need TWO cable cards in order to do it! How incredibly embarrassing for you. The Series 3 does not support OnDemand. There is no way to "demand" anything with CC1.0, whether you have one CableCARD or two.

People people people people - do you NOT know the specs on the S3? It DOES OnDemand but you need TWO cable cards in order to do it!
No, to use both tuners, it needs two CableCards, until one can get one M-CableCard instead.
The Cableco. Guide, and OnDemand are bi-directional, therefore they won't be supported until a future Tivo with CableCard 2.0 or OCAP 2.0 or whatever standard is implemented.

I've been saying this for a long time, these Moto boxes would never make it in an open, competitive market.
Well, that's what we're talking about - the (beginnings of an) open competitive market where TiVo gets to sell their competitive solution at $600-800 + $15-20/mo and the Motorola box is $10/mo to rent.

At best we can hope for the cell phone model where you can pay a premium for an unlocked phone, or buy an approved phone at a discount with a 1-2 year commitment. It would be nice to have a choice in STB and I would pay Comcast $200 for a TiVo S3 w/ a commitment.

And the typical J6P will choose the former over the latter everytime.

I couldn't agree more - which is why the S3 or later version will never be more than a niche product until or unless the price drops to about a quarter of the current price.

OK so when is soon?

Until a few months ago the guide was running flawlessly up where I'm at.

People people people people - do you NOT know the specs on the S3? It DOES OnDemand but you need TWO cable cards in order to do it! And I need to get the S3 for @$400 NOW so I can xfr my lifetime subscription...otherwise i'll continue to use my Comcast PVR for HD shows and my TiVo for non-HD shows...

Wrong, wrong, wrong....

The Series3 CAN NOT do Video On Demand (VOD) or Pay Per View (PPV). Period. It has neither the built-in hardware, nor the ability to support CableCard 2.0 in order to support such features. Please stop spreading FUD.

The Bill of Materials (BOM) cost on the Series3 is likely in the neighborhood of $500. I doubt you'll see it on sale for $400 any time soon...

Wrong, wrong, wrong....

The Series3 CAN NOT do Video On Demand (VOD) or Pay Per View (PPV). Period. It has neither the built-in hardware, nor the ability to support CableCard 2.0 in order to support such features. Please stop spreading FUD.

The Bill of Materials (BOM) cost on the Series3 is likely in the neighborhood of $500. I doubt you'll see it on sale for $400 any time soon...

In some cases where PPV is on a specific channel and can be ordered over the phone, it can be done.

In some cases where PPV is on a specific channel and can be ordered over the phone, it can be done.

Hmmmm.... Didn't know that. Thanks.

People people people people - do you NOT know the specs on the S3? It DOES OnDemand but you need TWO cable cards in order to do it! And I need to get the S3 for @$400 NOW so I can xfr my lifetime subscription...otherwise i'll continue to use my Comcast PVR for HD shows and my TiVo for non-HD shows...
How does one use the Comcast DVR for HD and the TIVO for non HD? Do you have two Comcast boxes? Can I use the 3412 to do this?

A basic S1 or S2 TiVo can send IR signals to the 6412/3412 and treat it like a regular Moto cable box, and record off its SVideo output.

How does one use the Comcast DVR for HD and the TIVO for non HD? Do you have two Comcast boxes? Can I use the 3412 to do this?


I set my TiVo to not record any suggestions and only set up season passes for non-HD shows. For HD shows I use the Comcast PVR. The feed still comes from the comcast box to the TiVo.

And the typical J6P will choose the former over the latter everytime.
You don't even have to be J6P. I want four DVRs. Even if I can get the S3 for $600, I'm not spending $2400, nor am I spending ~$34/mo just for DVR fees.

You don't even have to be J6P. I want four DVRs. Even if I can get the S3 for $600, I'm not spending $2400, nor am I spending ~$34/mo just for DVR fees.

-J6P doesn't want 4 DVRs
-That would be ~$29 per month on fees (299/3 years for the first, and the rest are SMD eligible at 6.95 each)
-Comcast's DVR fees for additional units are sky-high - think 4 total digital boxes at 7ish each, and one DVR at 9.95, 3 at 16.15 each = $76 in monthly fees for 4 DVRs
-In the interest of full disclosure, 8 Cable Cards would cost you (@$1.50 each) another $12 for the TiVos

So that would be $41 versus $76 per month in fees (4 S3 vs 4 Comcast DVRs).
That's $1260 extra over 3 years of projected use.

Are you saying owning and using 4 superior HD DVRs from TiVo ain't worth $(2400-1260)/(4*365)= 78 extra cents per day?

And these S3's will have resale value when you're done :)

Also, lets not forget that Comcast DVRs with TiVo software will cost more (if Cox ever offers those)

-J6P doesn't want 4 DVRs
-That would be ~$29 per month on fees (299/3 years for the first, and the rest are SMD eligible at 6.95 each)
-Comcast's DVR fees for additional units are sky-high - think 4 total digital boxes at 7ish each, and one DVR at 9.95, 3 at 16.15 each = $76 in monthly fees for 4 DVRs
-In the interest of full disclosure, 8 Cable Cards would cost you (@$1.50 each) another $12 for the TiVos

So that would be $41 versus $76 per month in fees (4 S3 vs 4 Comcast DVRs).
That's $1260 extra over 3 years of projected use.

Are you saying owning and using 4 superior HD DVRs from TiVo ain't worth $(2400-1260)/(4*365)= 78 extra cents per day?

And these S3's will have resale value when you're done :)

Also, lets not forget that Comcast DVRs with TiVo software will cost more (if Cox ever offers those)

not sure where you get your cablecards but from Comcast they run at LEAST $5-$9 EACH. Your math is off. Way off. A TiVo S3 @$800 plus the $200 xfr of lifetime (IF you have that) equates to $1,000 - that's for EACH S3 and NOT including the 2 cards to record 2 at once.
SO, $1,000 (w/no monthly fees from TiVo) + $10 (MINIMUM) for 2 Comcast cards.
Take the cost of the current Comcast PVR ($10 let's say).
So the $1,000/the $10 Comcast PVR equals 100 months? nope - you forgot the 2 cable cards to 'rent' - 100 months for the TiVo equals $1,000 for the 2 cable cards! So in 100 months you've spent $2,000.
What does $2,000 worth get you for the Comcast PVR (that has ONdemand and the dual tuner)? - Well that's 200 months. And how long is that? 16.6 YEARS.
Wait a minute you might say - Comcast is coming out in 2007 (it's been ALL over the wires lately) with their TiVo software that you'll upgrade your CURRENT box to. SO - let's say the new Comcast box costs$15 a month (That's the projection but I'M pushing it to $20 JUST for the sake of it all).
SO, doing the math you will say SEE! It's a WASH! $20 x 100 = $2,000 just like the S3!! But do you honestly THINK that the box you're using now will be the box you're using in over 8 YEARS? And that's not taking into consideration IF you don't have lifetime subscriptions to xfr ..and, oh yeah, that expires within a month to do that.


Nexxxxxxxxxxxt

not sure where you get your cablecards but from Comcast they run at LEAST $5-$9 EACH.
CableCARDS in the SF bay area are only $1.50 per month for the second and subsequent cards, the first one is "free". For a single S3 with 2 cards, the cost is $1.50 per month total.

If you have additional outlets beyond the first(or first S3), then you start incurring outlet fees which run from $5-$9.

There are many Comcast markets where CCs are only $1.50.

To rent the Comcast DVR in this market, it will run about $76 per month as you are required to get Standard Cable + Digital Classic. The cost for the S3 OTOH is $1.50 per month, plus the TiVo fee, and whatever programming package you get, which can as basic as Limited Basic, no need for all that extra programming required to use the Comcast DVR.

I ran the numbers on this before purchasing my S3, and over 3 years I'll end up saving about $25-30 per month, which includes the purchase price of the S3.

-J6P doesn't want 4 DVRsHe said, "You don't even have to be J6P." I took his point to be that (1) yes, J6P wouldn't want to pay that much and (2) not even he, who is clearly nothing like J6P, would want to pay that much.

Are you saying owning and using 4 superior HD DVRs from TiVo ain't worth $(2400-1260)/(4*365)= 78 extra cents per day?I sure would, because I recognize the obfuscation that comes from reducing large expenditures down to "pennies a day". I don't buy overpriced life insurance because it is only 75c extra per day, and I don't buy overpriced DVRs either.

And these S3's will have resale value when you're done :)You mean like our S2s? :rolleyes: Gosh how many people are clamoring for my Humax, given that they can get a brand-new unit, with two tuners instead of one, for free, and still pay the same monthly fee. :rolleyes:

I ran the numbers on this before purchasing my S3, and over 3 years I'll end up saving about $25-30 per month, which includes the purchase price of the S3.It really comes down to what you'd be purchasing in terms of programming, regardless. For me, it was pretty much a wash, so that was enough for me to purchase the S3. Of course, the S3 didn't work, so there's always that to consider.

It really comes down to what you'd be purchasing in terms of programming, regardless. For me, it was pretty much a wash, so that was enough for me to purchase the S3. Of course, the S3 didn't work, so there's always that to consider.

Here in Nashvegas a cablecard is @$6.95 which is why I chose not to use the integrated cc on my Toshiba 62" TV since it's only $3 more per month for their box w/the HD PVR.

It really comes down to what you'd be purchasing in terms of programming, regardless. For me, it was pretty much a wash, so that was enough for me to purchase the S3. Of course, the S3 didn't work, so there's always that to consider.
Definitely, if you are going to want all that extra programming anyways, then the Comcast DVR might be the way to go. Myself, all I wanted was Limited Basic(for the local HD channels) so the S3 made sense for me.

Hang on, the Mossberg article indicates you can filter out the non-HD feeds in the Comcast grid. How do you do this? The closest I have come is to set up a Favorites list that doesn't include the SD stations. And favorites seems to be broken right now (it says 24 stations in the list, but only 10 show up).

how big is there harddrive that has hdtv prog. and sd prog.

Hang on, the Mossberg article indicates you can filter out the non-HD feeds in the Comcast grid. How do you do this? The closest I have come is to set up a Favorites list that doesn't include the SD stations. And favorites seems to be broken right now (it says 24 stations in the list, but only 10 show up).
There is a new bug that has shown up where HD channels will not show up in the Guide when in Favorites mode. Since there were no recent software updates, it's possibly a configuration change or change in the Guide data format.
If you use the HD icon on the mini-menu (the first time you use the MENU button) you can list HD programming by time or channel. This also appears to be a bit buggy right now. Maybe this feature is what Mossberg was talking about.

How does one use the Comcast DVR for HD and the TIVO for non HD? Do you have two Comcast boxes? Can I use the 3412 to do this?

I have a second Comcast non-DVR box that is connected to my S2 TiVo. But the S2 TiVo can also record straight from the cable (but only those channels available via unscrambled analog, which, for me, doesn't include most of the Expanded Basic channels).

A basic S1 or S2 TiVo can send IR signals to the 6412/3412 and treat it like a regular Moto cable box, and record off its SVideo output.
[QUOTE]

I was previously able to connect my box old comcast box through a serial interface on the back to my S2 TIVO (or maybe it was serial on the TIVO to the comcast box, I don't remember). Anyway the remote was much faster than the IR and I didn't have to have the annoying cable. Can I still do this? I don't remember seeing the right connection on my 3412.

If I can't connect that way, then based on the response I assume that I have to have the IR connection with the cable to the front of the 3412. If so does the 3412 have to be on the station that I'm recording on the TIVO? (My question is for the digital cable channels, not the channels I can access through the RF pass through.)

[QUOTE]

I was previously able to connect my box old comcast box through a serial interface on the back to my S2 TIVO (or maybe it was serial on the TIVO to the comcast box, I don't remember). Anyway the remote was much faster than the IR and I didn't have to have the annoying cable. Can I still do this? I don't remember seeing the right connection on my 3412.

If I can't connect that way, then based on the response I assume that I have to have the IR connection with the cable to the front of the 3412. If so does the 3412 have to be on the station that I'm recording on the TIVO? (My question is for the digital cable channels, not the channels I can access through the RF pass through.)


Why would you want to do that the 3412 is a dualtuner dvr.

ajwees41

No idea about Serial - I don't remember seeing a Serial interface on the back of the 64xx/34xx boxes.

And ajwees, my 6412 lends intself VERY well to being a slave of a Standard Definition-capable TiVo ... why NOT use it? :) It records its own recordings on the background tuner, the foreground tuner is always available to be tuned to whatever channel the TiVo wants, and I almost never use BOTH tuners on the 6412 to record HD shows anyway. And if I MUST, I have an S3 HD TiVo to use instead ;)

No idea about Serial - I don't remember seeing a Serial interface on the back of the 64xx/34xx boxes.

And ajwees, my 6412 lends intself VERY well to being a slave of a Standard Definition-capable TiVo ... why NOT use it? :) It records its own recordings on the background tuner, the foreground tuner is always available to be tuned to whatever channel the TiVo wants, and I almost never use BOTH tuners on the 6412 to record HD shows anyway. And if I MUST, I have an S3 HD TiVo to use instead ;)


If you do infact have a 3412 it is all digital and running it through the Tivo might not work.

ajwees41

If you do infact have a 3412 it is all digital and running it through the Tivo might not work.

ajwees41
TiVos work fine with all-digital STBs as the TiVo's input connect with the S-Video, composite, or coax analog SD outputs of the STB/DVR.

Thanks hiker. I THOUGHT that may have been the source of ajwees' misunderstanding, but I forgot to address it :)

The TiVo thinks it is connected to a Moto DCT2xxx series box (same remote codes), and doesn't know (or need to know) better. SVideo out from the 6412 is substantially better than from DCT boxes, and I can record HD channels, if I so wish, and use the TV's Zoom to get the SD version to fill up the screen. (No I'm not saying that is real HD, but this may be useful for Plasma users etc :) I have 4 other HD recording capable tuners for stuff I WANT recorded in HD)

Thanks hiker. I THOUGHT that may have been the source of ajwees' misunderstanding, but I forgot to address it :)

The TiVo thinks it is connected to a Moto DCT2xxx series box (same remote codes), and doesn't know (or need to know) better. SVideo out from the 6412 is substantially better than from DCT boxes, and I can record HD channels, if I so wish, and use the TV's Zoom to get the SD version to fill up the screen. (No I'm not saying that is real HD, but this may be useful for Plasma users etc :) I have 4 other HD recording capable tuners for stuff I WANT recorded in HD)


The only other thing is the tivo and 3412 will cost more every month in user fees than the 3412 alone.

ajwees41

-J6P doesn't want 4 DVRs
-That would be ~$29 per month on fees (299/3 years for the first, and the rest are SMD eligible at 6.95 each)
You have to pay up front for the $299, though...'course if you're ponying up $2400 or more for boxen, maybe that isn't a big deal.
-Comcast's DVR fees for additional units are sky-high - think 4 total digital boxes at 7ish each, and one DVR at 9.95, 3 at 16.15 each = $76 in monthly fees for 4 DVRs
Hmm. Not sure where you got those numbers. It certainly isn't like that here. The programming package I get includes two digital boxes, and two more is $5 apiece. DVRs are $9.95 apiece. So that's $50, not $76.
-In the interest of full disclosure, 8 Cable Cards would cost you (@$1.50 each) another $12 for the TiVos

So that would be $41 versus $76 per month in fees (4 S3 vs 4 Comcast DVRs).
That's $1260 extra over 3 years of projected use.
Unless I don't want to pony up $299 at the front end, in which case it's $46 versus $50.[/quote]

Are you saying owning and using 4 superior HD DVRs from TiVo ain't worth $(2400-1260)/(4*365)= 78 extra cents per day?
If you're calculating three years of projected use, why are you dividing by 4*365? Nevermind that I don't get paid per day and I don't pay my bills per day, so a daily rate is useless unless one is trying to hide a larger number.

So if I use my numbers, I get ($50 - $46) = $4/mo. * 36 = $144 extra over 3 years for cable monthly fees, so the final formula is ($2400 - $144)/36, or $62.67/month. No, Tivo is not worth that.

Even if I accept your numbers and just fix your math, I get ($2400 - $1260)/36 = $31.67/month, and no, I'm sure it's worth that either.

All of this assumes that the present value of money = future value, but in fact for the Tivos I'd have to put up a LOT of money now, whereas I don't with cable. For whatever that's worth.
And these S3's will have resale value when you're done :)Care to put that in writing? 'Cos if the S3 gets replaced with a new flavor that supports CableCard 2.0, or if CableCard gets obsoleted by SDV, IPTV, and the like, well they many not have as much resale value as you think.

Hmm. Not sure where you got those numbers. It certainly isn't like that here. The programming package I get includes two digital boxes, and two more is $5 apiece. DVRs are $9.95 apiece. So that's $50, not $76.


It's perfectly reasonable that your costs differ from someone else's in a different region. It's well established that Comcast pricing is variable per region (or even per town). Just look at the Comcast CableCard fees some people are getting dinged for. It varies from free to $15/month/card, depending upon which city and/or state they're in.

Whatever justification (and picking on my rushed math) makes you happy about enjoying a cruddy DVR, Chris :)

Your additional Comcast Digital boxes are 5 each, you say? You are forgetting to add the ADDITIONAL 9.95 EACH for those among the digital boxes that happen to be DVRs. And Comcast is raising rates on the 2nd (and higher) DVRs on an account from 9.95 to 16.15 (or whatever that number is ... hit up broadbandreports.com for confirmation). So the 2,3,4 DVR boxes will cost (5+16.15) each.

The 4x365 WAS a mistake ... but perhaps one SHOULD distribute costs over 4 years anyway :) The 4 came from the number of units the poster I was replying to was planning to buy!

As for CableCards, Comcast apparently has an internal memo/rule out to NOT charge the additional digital outlet fee for the second cable card per S3 TiVo, and charge only $1.50 for it instead. And their own CableCard FAQ implies one would be eligible for a free Digital Cable Box for the outlet on which the TV (or device - such as S3) which utilizes the CableCards, is connected. So you can use it for VOD/PPV. As soon as my billing stabilizes post Adelphia->Comcast transition, I intend to call and have my account appropriately adjusted. And no, I'm not trying to squeeze money out of them for 'retention' or any of that nonsense - just to live up to their own FAQ and website. In fact I intend to upgrade to their Triple Play (basically add phone) and their higher speed HSI tier as well.

The only other thing is the tivo and 3412 will cost more every month in user fees than the 3412 alone.

ajwees41

But would it cost any more than leasing a 3412 ANYWAY, and owning that TiVo for SD recordings ANYWAY (and limiting the SD TiVo to merely Basic/Enhanced tuner Analog Cable channels?) :)

It's a win-win! And I like saying 'the 6412 is a slave to my TiVo' ... feels SO appropriate :p

Care to put that in writing? 'Cos if the S3 gets replaced with a new flavor that supports CableCard 2.0, or if CableCard gets obsoleted by SDV, IPTV, and the like, well they many not have as much resale value as you think.Absolutely. Used, single-tuner Humax Series 2 TiVos are practically worthless.

As for cable cards.

I have received my latest comcast bill included is the new rate listings,

Included is a line for:

cable card ( Tivo S3 2nd card) 1.50


So Tivo made it specifically into the comcast price list

And the comcast DVR is now 11.95



Mike b

Whatever justification (and picking on my rushed math) makes you happy about enjoying a cruddy DVR, Chris :)

Your additional Comcast Digital boxes are 5 each, you say? You are forgetting to add the ADDITIONAL 9.95 EACH for those among the digital boxes that happen to be DVRs. And Comcast is raising rates on the 2nd (and higher) DVRs on an account from 9.95 to 16.15 (or whatever that number is ... hit up broadbandreports.com for confirmation). So the 2,3,4 DVR boxes will cost (5+16.15) each.

Comcast PVR boxes (including Digital, OnDemand, etc.) are $9.95 each. There's a $5 charge per month to GET the HD stations so whether or not you use an S3 or not, the ONLY way to get comcast HD for your S3 is by paying that $5. Did you calculate that into your $$ numbers?

The $5 HD charge is already included in my Comcast DVR at $9.95. If you have a second HD box, DVR or otherwise, there is an additional $5 charge. that's how it is in California.

Comcast PVR boxes (including Digital, OnDemand, etc.) are $9.95 each. There's a $5 charge per month to GET the HD stations so whether or not you use an S3 or not, the ONLY way to get comcast HD for your S3 is by paying that $5. Did you calculate that into your $$ numbers?

I have a $5 charge for the non-premium-but-not-standard-either HD channels (ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNetMovies, inHD1/2). This is for the entire account, and it's a wash, so there's no reason for it to figure in the cost comparison :)

And no, it is NOT included in the DVR's 9.95 (soon to be 16.xx) charge in my bill.

I just got a rate increase card also.

We (in Philadelphia) don't have an HD content charge. The locals are included with Basic service, and others (ESPN, etc.) are included with Digital Plus, and the premiums are included with the premium subscription. If I wanted just Basic service PLUS the HD channels like INHD, ESPN, etc., I don't think I could get that without paying for an entire digital package.

We have an HD "equipment" charge, that's $5 for digital cable subscribers and $8.95 for others. But it's an "equipment" charge, which means it's subsumed if you have the HDDVR (which are going up, to $11.95 for the first and $16.15 for each additional).

...still waiting... :(

That sucks, we've all had ours for months now . . .

That sucks, we've all had ours for months now . . .

Had what for months? I'm referring to the title of this thread.

Whatever justification (and picking on my rushed math) makes you happy about enjoying a cruddy DVR, Chris :)
Not trying to justify bad DVRs, believe me. Trying to rationalize expensive ones. I would absolutely prefer Tivos, but there are limits to the financial contribution I am willing to make.
Your additional Comcast Digital boxes are 5 each, you say? You are forgetting to add the ADDITIONAL 9.95 EACH for those among the digital boxes that happen to be DVRs.
No I am not. Re-read what I wrote: I get 2 digital outlets included in my package. Two more at $5/mo = $10. Four DVR fees (for the four outlets) ~ $40. Total is $50.
And Comcast is raising rates on the 2nd (and higher) DVRs on an account from 9.95 to 16.15 (or whatever that number is ... hit up broadbandreports.com for confirmation). So the 2,3,4 DVR boxes will cost (5+16.15) each.
That would certainly impact my decision to a certain extent, but it's still nowhere near offsetting that $2400 initial buy-in.
In fact I intend to upgrade to their Triple Play (basically add phone) and their higher speed HSI tier as well.
My problem is I cannot leverage that discount (or I choose not to) because (A) their Internet service made me crazy, and (B) I use a VoIP phone service.

fyi: Comcast and Tivo announce new software will be available Real Soon Now (Demo it at CES)

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8MH64CO5.htm

fyi: Comcast and Tivo announce new software will be available Real Soon Now (Demo it at CES)

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8MH64CO5.htm

Thanks for the head's up. Would love to hear from someone who actually saw it in action. I know the HT Guys were at CES. Wonder if they got a look. Neither of them have Comcast, though, so I'm not sure how interested they'd be.

fyi: Comcast and Tivo announce new software will be available Real Soon Now (Demo it at CES)

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8MH64CO5.htm

Not to be the pessimist, but I didn't see anything in there about it being available real soon...

I totally understand your pessimism. When I had posted the article, I read "will now feature" as being readily available, or available Real Soon Now.

At the very least it's being demoed, which at the very least is a confirmation that there is actually tivo software working on a Moto box.

I gave heads up to dave zatz and gizmodo, and got a reply from Dave Zatz saying:

"it's here on display, but i haven't been briefed yet on when it will be available"

Hopefully we'll have more info by the end of the day, maybe there's more info over at the TivoCommunity?

No mention of launch date, but there's a bit more info on what features are included in the new software.



COMCAST AND TIVO DEMONSTRATE INTEGRATED DVR SERVICE AT CES

New Service Is First to Combine TiVo's Award-winning DVR Features and Comcast's Signature ON DEMAND Service on One Set-Top Box

LAS VEGAS, NV — January 08, 2007 — Comcast (NASDAQ: CMCSA, CMCSK), the nation's leading provider of cable, entertainment and communications products and services, and TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), are demonstrating a new TiVo® service for Comcast DVRs at the 2007 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES). The companies began trialing the TiVo service for Comcast DVRs in late 2006.

The new service will offer consumers the ease and convenience of using a single digital cable set-top box to enjoy popular TiVo DVR features along with Comcast's innovative video-on-demand (VOD) service and the most high-definition (HD) television viewing choices for the first time. Working in concert with Comcast, TiVo has developed a software application that will enable Comcast to deploy the service for a modest monthly fee to existing set-top boxes without an additional in-home visit by a technician.

"The combination of our signature Comcast ON DEMAND and HD services with the TiVo interface will provide customers with the only integrated access to all of these outstanding services from one set-top box," said Mark Hess, Senior Vice President of Video Product Development for Comcast. "TiVo has been a great partner in developing this service, and we're proud of the work that our teams have done to deliver our customers a product that's simple, easy to use and is a great value."

"Collaborating with Comcast to make the state-of-the-art TiVo service available on their existing hardware platform is an important accomplishment for both companies," said Jeff Klugman, Senior Vice President for TiVo's Service Provider Division. "We're thrilled that the benefits of TiVo will soon be available to Comcast's millions of subscribers. Consumers know that it is not TiVo, unless it is a TiVo, and the TiVo service will enhance the cable television experience."

Comcast customers who choose the TiVo service will enjoy TiVo's Emmy Award-winning user interface and premium DVR features, smart search and discovery features including WishList® searches and TiVo Suggestions, plus improved scheduling and recording management through such features as Season Pass™ recordings. Comcast's unique service features, like the broadest selection of HD programming and more than 8,000 ON DEMAND programs each month will be fully integrated with the TiVo service, making it easy for customers to find great programming on traditional television channels and ON DEMAND.

TiVo's Official Press Release (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_124.html)

I don't see any mention about improving the awful transport controls on the Moto boxes.

What are they going to do about the awful remotes that the cable companies give out?

I don't see any mention about improving the awful transport controls on the Moto boxes.

The TiVo Software will bring a big change to the transport control, the guide, and other options.

What are they going to do about the awful remotes that the cable companies give out?


Since there are 2 Moto Remotes, and several Multi use brand remotes given out by various MSO's for the STB, could you please let us know what remote model you are talking about.

Scanpa,

Any indication of a larger hard drive availablility or external drive support?

I just got a rate increase card also.

We (in Philadelphia) don't have an HD content charge. The locals are included with Basic service, and others (ESPN, etc.) are included with Digital Plus, and the premiums are included with the premium subscription. If I wanted just Basic service PLUS the HD channels like INHD, ESPN, etc., I don't think I could get that without paying for an entire digital package.

We have an HD "equipment" charge, that's $5 for digital cable subscribers and $8.95 for others. But it's an "equipment" charge, which means it's subsumed if you have the HDDVR (which are going up, to $11.95 for the first and $16.15 for each additional).
Variety HD channels (ESPN, Discovery, etc.) are actually part of Digital Classic, but it is only $3 less than Digital Plus. Encore HD OnDemand is in Digital Plus.

You can get Basic and Digital in some areas as long as on your price list, Digital doesn't have a pre-requisite of Expanded/Standard.

And, I have found that $5 for 'HD' is not a legitimate fee in many (all?) cases, despite it being charged; many have been able to get it removed. As you say, the HD channels are part of their respective services, there are no HD-only services.

The reason HD fee is 'only' $5 for non-Digital subs, is because they are already paying for the first Digital box, non-itemized $4.15, total $9.15, similar to non-Digital subs.

The DVR fee is really $11.95 + 4.15= $16.10.

Since there are 2 Moto Remotes, and several Multi use brand remotes given out by various MSO's for the STB, could you please let us know what remote model you are talking about.
We have Cox here and this is the remote:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1COB-IwhML7qRM:http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/a9/11/02_1.JPG

It is the most un-ergonomic thing out there!

Sorry for the small size, but it's the best pic I could find and it won't show up inline.

Good software + lousy video hardware = software controlled junk.

I can't see how a new software load to the POS Mot box is going to cure all the shortcomings. The basic video processing (A/D conversion for analog channels and deinterlacing/upscaling) is set primarily by the hardware topology. The existing box gets confused and acts like it's marginally able to run the code it has. How can new (and likely larger) code going to be better?

-Dave

Just a quick question from a newbie - does anyone either with the inside track (scanpa?) or who is at CES know when the service will be rolled out and where it will be available (I'm in Marin County, CA)
cheers
mark

Just a quick question from a newbie - does anyone either with the inside track (scanpa?) or who is at CES know when the service will be rolled out and where it will be available (I'm in Marin County, CA)
cheers
mark


Spring time for Projected Rollout.

Spring time for Projected Rollout.

Do you know if it's going to be a nation-wide rollout or will it be done headend-by-headend?

Good software + lousy video hardware = software controlled junk.

I can't see how a new software load to the POS Mot box is going to cure all the shortcomings. The basic video processing (A/D conversion for analog channels and deinterlacing/upscaling) is set primarily by the hardware topology. The existing box gets confused and acts like it's marginally able to run the code it has. How can new (and likely larger) code going to be better?

-Dave

The Motorola actually uses the same CPU BCM7038 as the Tivo S3, the main difference is the S3 has an add on chip to do MPEG4 decoding. So have hope.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4360299&&#post4360299

I hear in the Denver market that the TiVo software is "getting very close" and that they are going to be one of the first with OCAP this year. No details, but lots of resources are being applied to working on this.

...I gave heads up to dave zatz and gizmodo, and got a reply from Dave Zatz saying:

"it's here on display, but i haven't been briefed yet on when it will be available"

Hopefully we'll have more info by the end of the day, maybe there's more info over at the TivoCommunity?


looks like they came through... Gizmodo has a screenshot! I can't post the direct link because although i've been watching this thread like a hawk I don't even have 5 posts on AVS forum yet, i'm a newbie!

if someone else could post the link that would be a great help (on Gizmodo January 8th)

i'm taking a wild guess here... if you look at the screenshot on Gizmodo.. at the bottom there is an icon for "Live TV", looks to me as if this is a Tivo font, not anything i've seen on any of the Comcast remotes, which just might seem to confirm that people will get a Tivo remote control..? Especially because Comcast remotes have a button labelled as 'Live', and yet Tivo remotes have their equivalent labelled as 'Live TV'...

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-comcast-interfacefirst-look-227203.php (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-comcast-interfacefirst-look-227203.php)

thanks FormulaBen

no prob...slightly different menu on the "home" page compared to my old HDVR2.

More screen shots at http://ces.betanews.com/roundup/TiVo_for_Cable/1168301016

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-comcast-interfacefirst-look-227203.php (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-comcast-interfacefirst-look-227203.php)

More screen shots at http://ces.betanews.com/roundup/TiVo_for_Cable/1168301016

Thanks for posting those links guys. Looks great. For me the key will be responsiveness. If they can duplicate or come close to the Tivo response I will be a happy Comcast customer for sure.

Any indication of a larger hard drive availablility or external drive support?

Word is that Motorola will have a fix for the DRM problem that effects eSATA and USB external HDD support out be summer 2007!

The Motorola actually uses the same CPU BCM7038 as the Tivo S3, the main difference is the S3 has an add on chip to do MPEG4 decoding. So have hope.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4360299&&#post4360299


But, how does this help? All the news so far is that the TIVO load will be an extra cost service that is downloaded to the existing MOT STB. The improved DVR would be nice for sure, but I can't see how that helps the rest of the multitude of problems.

If I'm going to pay extra, give me a solid STB with good video processing.

-Dave

I can't see how a new software load to the POS Mot box is going to cure all the shortcomings. I doubt that's necessary. The current software is good enough as is for the vast majority of customers, and almost good enough for a number of other customers. The new software will make things better, so that will cover the vast majority of the "almost good enough" customers and a good number of the "not good enough" customers, leaving very few customers left unsatisfied.

Hmmm, so it's TiVo but not really TiVo.

AP article here (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PA_GADGET_SHOW_COMCAST_TIVO_PAOL-?SITE=NYBIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)\

Nice to finally see some official news about this.

Megazone is reporting that the Motorola/Cox TiVo software IS OCAP. It is not a "port" of the existing TiVo software, it is a complete rewrite to comply with OCAP. Many features and GUI items have been revised or refreshed. All networking features are currently out, but Comcast is very interested in them.

This probably explains the delays. First, they had to re-write from the ground up. Second, there exists the possibility that they were initially porting the original TiVo software to the Moto boxes, then shifted mid-stream to the OCAP implementation. I haven't seen/heard anything about that second part, but it kinda makes sense to me.

There must still be one or more layers of software to translate OCAP to the hardware. If Moto/Comcast had anything to do with that layer I'm not optimisitic about the prospects for TIVO on top of it.

I suspect that the 6412 is just out of gas but there's a lot of them and to replace them all would be a very expensive proposition.

jim

There must still be one or more layers of software to translate OCAP to the hardware. If Moto/Comcast had anything to do with that layer I'm not optimisitic about the prospects for TIVO on top of it.

I suspect that the 6412 is just out of gas but there's a lot of them and to replace them all would be a very expensive proposition.

jim

From what I understand, TiVo's OCAP implementation is analogous to a Java App running on a PC. There's a LOT of code between the iron and the app. It's hard to say right now if the lower layers of code have been updated to support the OCAP stuff. If so, there is a chance that they've finally cleaned up their mess and made the platform run more smoothly.

From what I understand, TiVo's OCAP implementation is analogous to a Java App running on a PC. There's a LOT of code between the iron and the app. It's hard to say right now if the lower layers of code have been updated to support the OCAP stuff. If so, there is a chance that they've finally cleaned up their mess and made the platform run more smoothly.
That's not encouraging. Java apps run like crap, for the most part.

So does anyone hazard to guess if the Firewire ports will still work with the TiVo software? The Firewire support on the 3412 is pretty horrible (broken FF/REW after recording to D-VHS, etc.). The FCC says cable companies have to provide working Firewire ports if you request them, but does that mean they have to work with ALL versions of the software on a given machine?

That's not encouraging. Java apps run like crap, for the most part.

Lol, you must be a C++ guy. ;)

<-- Java developer

Lol, you must be a C++ guy. ;)

<-- Java developer
Not really. Just a guy who has to experience slow, memory-hogging Java apps all day long. That's not to say all Java apps are like that.

But it's indisputable that, all else being equal, you sacrifice performance to abstract, and the more you abstract, the more you sacrifice. Nothing burns rubber like a tiny little thing written in assembly. Of course, who has that kind of time? But at the other end of the spectrum is the uber-portable stuff like Java, and Java written to OCAP sounds like a whole lot of abstraction.

Of course, it could run just fine. I have no idea. But heck, the legacy Tivo software running on the S2 hardware wasn't exactly lightning. (I love Tivo, I really do, and I own a pile of 'em, but speed ain't what brought me to the dance.)

That's not encouraging. Java apps run like crap, for the most part.


Most of the Java problems are the fact that the java is running on a pc with windows. Motorola doesn't do Windows.

ajwees41

Most of the Java problems are the fact that the java is running on a pc with windows. Motorola doesn't do Windows.

ajwees41

At least they got that right. :)

Most of the Java problems are the fact that the java is running on a pc with windows. Motorola doesn't do Windows.

ajwees41
Well, if they could get the Moto boxes to be half as responsive as MCE, I would start using mine for more than ESPN-HD.

Lots of Comcast TiVo screen pics here:

http://www.tivolovers.com/Photos/CES2007/

Including a special Comcast TiVo Peanut remote:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Remote-1.jpg

Do we really need all those extra buttons though.....

Very nice. It's Comcastic! :D

The current software is good enough as is for the vast majority of customers, and almost good enough for a number of other customers.

I apologize for just "dropping by" and not reading the umpteen prior pages on this post, but I just recently got re-interested in this topic. As the renter, and payer, for 3 Comcast DVRs, I can't believe that the software is good enough for anyone who has used any recent electronics (PC, DVD, MP3, etc.). The delays are long, the pauses where the box is unresponsive are inexcusable, and missed recordings are a constant threat... and the price is going up.

Perhaps, and it is to be hoped, it is not the Motorola box that is a POS, but only the software. I hope so.

Here are more pictures of the Tivo software running on a Comcast box. Looks like some of the standard Tivo functions have been tweaked and updated nicely.

Well, I got caught buy the lurkers-can't-link feature of this board, so go to Engadget and look for comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features. <sigh>

Here are more pictures of the Tivo software running on a Comcast box. Looks like some of the standard Tivo functions have been tweaked and updated nicely.

Well, I got caught buy the lurkers-can't-link feature of this board, so go to Engadget and look for comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features. <sigh>

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/

cNET has a very brief article about Motorola's Follow Me TV presentation at CES which says:

Motorola's Follow Me TV feature for its DVR set-top boxes lets users choose which TV to watch a recorded TV show on.

Instead of keeping content stored on only that TV, Follow Me TV lets users bring TV with them from room to room. Any recorded show is aggregated and made available on any TV on the network. In addition to TV programs, music and photos can also follow to any TV, and the content can also be sent to portable devices.

Or, as Motorola CEO Ed Zander demonstrated for the audience here at CES 2007, you can pause a live show, push a button, and pick up that show in a different room.

Verizon first introduced the service on its multiroom DVR in late 2006, but Zander announced during his keynote Monday morning that Comcast will be offering it this year.

Sounds like some of the other functions that TiVo offers will be available to Comcast customers sometime this year.

Do we really need all those extra buttons though.....Well two of the colored background buttons hopefully will still go-forward-one-day, go-back-one-day... that's a feature that TiVo doesn't have itself, but needs. Of course, the On Demand button is necessary. Not sure what the other two buttons would be good for.

As the renter, and payer, for 3 Comcast DVRs, I can't believe that the software is good enough for anyone who has used any recent electronics (PC, DVD, MP3, etc.). You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

The delays are long, the pauses where the box is unresponsive are inexcusableYet you're excusing it, on three boxes.

Talk is cheap, Claude. Your professed actions belie what you're essentially asserting.

Well two of the colored background buttons hopefully will still go-forward-one-day, go-back-one-day... that's a feature that TiVo doesn't have itself, but needs. Of course, the On Demand button is necessary. Not sure what the other two buttons would be good for.
My biggest worry is how to deal with those extra buttons on my Harmony 880 remote.

personally for myself, the interface looks way too much like comcast and not nearly enough like Tivo in overall appearance.

But thats not what really matters for the masses or Tivo I realize


Mike

personally for myself, the interface looks way too much like comcast and not nearly enough like Tivo in overall appearance.

But thats not what really matters for the masses or Tivo I realize

As a former TiVo user, the one thing I want is the ability to cancel upcoming episodes within a series with one click while in that list. The current MS implementation is a pain in the bum with you having to drill down from the main menu to the episode, cancel it, return upstream to the main menu, then drill back down to the next episode...

For some of my Series with 20+ episodes, it can take me 10+ minutes (assuming the CPU doesn't freeze and queue my commands).

Has anyone found performance-related review on this yet? Did they allow test drivers at CES?

personally for myself, the interface looks way too much like comcast and not nearly enough like Tivo in overall appearance.

But thats not what really matters for the masses or Tivo I realize


Mike

Spend a few days with the Motorola remote and I'm sure you'll change your mind. As a Tivo devotee who has been Comcasticized, I think it looks like porn.

Here is more photos and one of the new Comcast TiVO DCT remote.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wahiggins3/sets/72157594469660371/detail/

Of course, the On Demand button is necessary.

Not really, just go to channel 1.

I'm fine with the interface on my Moto 6412, I just want a lot more space. 250GB should be the minimum. At the very least, let me connect a SATA external HD.

My biggest worry is how to deal with those extra buttons on my Harmony 880 remote.

From the look of the screen shots, the ABCD buttons change depending upon the screen you are on.

For example on the guide it looks like
A = Programs
C = Channels

On the recordings screen
A=Groups
B=Sort

I don't see the D button on any of the screenshots though.

Gizmodo says "Check out the picture-window!" -- looks like a widescreen image distorted to fit a 4:3 box! Ugh.

I have tried to read through this thread but I might have missed this.

Is there a date yet of when we can upgrade to the Tivo software?

250GB should be the minimum. At the very least, let me connect a SATA external HD.

Motorola is working on the fix that will allow you to use external HDD on the STB.

Right now there is a problem with how DRM is handled on external media, so by law, they must keep these options turned off.

I have tried to read through this thread but I might have missed this.

Is there a date yet of when we can upgrade to the Tivo software?

Spring time area 2007 for the begining of the roll out.

as your headend upgrades for this service it will be made available.

Ars Technica has a pretty good article

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8585.html

The most disappointing part is:

"There's no KidZone, remote scheduling, or home networking with the Comcast TiVos."

I don't care about KidZone, and I didn't expect home networking (since the S3 doesn't have it).
But I really was expected remote scheduling.

What I still wonder about (besides performance/reliability):

1) Can you choose IR codes, so two boxes can live in the same room easily (like on a real Tivo)

2) Does it save Guide Data to disk like a real Tivo, or lose it on reboot ala Comcast?

3) Is the Guide the same short description data Comcast uses, or do we get the longer into available on the Tivo (directors, guest starts, original broadcast date, etc).

Eventhough I am in a Cox serviced area I wonder if the Tivo upgrade would delete already recorded content?

ajwees41

Ars Technica has a pretty good article

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8585.html

The most disappointing part is:

"There's no KidZone, remote scheduling, or home networking with the Comcast TiVos."

I don't care about KidZone, and I didn't expect home networking (since the S3 doesn't have it).
But I really was expected remote scheduling.


Comcast is working on a website that allows you to change DVR settings for all software types via WWW. This includes the TiVo software.


What I still wonder about (besides performance/reliability):

1) Can you choose IR codes, so two boxes can live in the same room easily (like on a real Tivo)

This is not a software feature. This is what is embeded in the STB by Motorola, there is and will only be one code for the DCT / QIP / DCH STB series.

2) Does it save Guide Data to disk like a real Tivo, or lose it on reboot ala Comcast?

Not that we have been told. This would take more space away from what little is already available in the small HDD.

3) Is the Guide the same short description data Comcast uses, or do we get the longer into available on the Tivo (directors, guest starts, original broadcast date, etc).

It will have more info available, that way the various searches for Actors ect. can work. But it will be more limited then the normal TiVo Service that uses a Landline to download the guide data. The DCT STB get's the data over a data burst sent over the OOB tuner.

Eventhough I am in a Cox serviced area I wonder if the Tivo upgrade would delete already recorded content?

ajwees41

No. We have been told the Storage format will not be changed to the TiVo format. it will remain in Moto style.

This is not a software feature. This is what is embeded in the STB by Motorola, there is and will only be one code for the DCT / QIP / DCH STB series.

If that's the case, then it's a disaster... :mad:

Does anyone have any idea of a price for the Tivo Guide? How much more will I have to pay comcast then I do now?

Thanks

"There's no KidZone, remote scheduling, or home networking with the Comcast TiVos."

IIRC, this is also missing from the S3 because the feature doesn't pass CableLabs certification. Tivo has said this could be enabled in the future (at least for the S3's).

It will have more info available, that way the various searches for Actors ect. can work. But it will be more limited then the normal TiVo Service that uses a Landline to download the guide data. The DCT STB get's the data over a data burst sent over the OOB tuner.

I'm curious as to why the method of how the data is sent down affects the data itself. Is the OOB data bursts only capable of sending a finite amount of data?

The Tivo interface looks great IMO. MUCH better than I-GUIDE. While functional, I-GUIDE is so plain compared to Aptiv's Passport, Diego's Moxi, or Tivo's interface. I wonder if the firmware will fix the HDMI bug's people have been having. So there's the age old dilemma of what shall I do?

Wait for the Panasonic 250GB DVR , no extra monthly cost, but same old boring I-Guide, or pay more and get the Tivo for Motorola. I have a DCT-6412/2000, and it's speculated in these forums that I'd need to get a 64xx P3 or newer (even though all those sites don't specify). So there's another downside. Also the Tivo remote doesn't appear to be multifunction. I like the remote, but can you program it to at least power on your TV?

So what do you think, get much more storage in a new box by Panasonic or swap out for a 34xx box and upgrade to Tivo when its available?

cypherstream - The new Tivo remote has a "TV Power" button, so it seems pretty likely that it can be used to control the TV power. I'm assuming it also can control the TV's volume and input, like the current Tivo remotes do (without the need for explicit device selection buttons).

IIRC, this is also missing from the S3 because the feature doesn't pass CableLabs certification. Tivo has said this could be enabled in the future (at least for the S3's).

Remote scheduling works just fine with S3's. It has been there from day 1!

Remote scheduling works just fine with S3's. It has been there from day 1!

Sorry...meant to bold home networking. :p Fixed.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Yet you're excusing it, on three boxes.

Talk is cheap, Claude. Your professed actions belie what you're essentially asserting.

No bicker1, Comcast is cheap (relatively speaking), which is why I use the boxes, as disheartening as it is. I cannot get DirectTV (no line of sight; I tried twice (before and after a renovation)). I also have 2 ReplayTV units, which I used until recently, when I began recording more and more HD. ReplayTV, like Tivo, had a workable user interface many years ago.

I simply cannot get my spouse to pony up the dollars, or the complexity, for Tivo standalones. Even absent my wife's objections, I'm not sure that I would want to do it anyway; buying digital technology when it's available for lease just doesn't fit my lifestyle -- I buy cars, lease STBs.

To use something that I call inexcusable is not contradictory or hypocritical. For example, I pay taxes although some of the uses my money gets put to are inexcusable. I own stock in some companies who have, it turns out, acted inexcusably regarding stock options. I use Windows XP, as a considered and balanced decision, even though some Microsoft decisions and actions are inexcusable.

Anyway, my $0.02.

Does anyone have any idea of a price for the Tivo Guide? How much more will I have to pay comcast then I do now?

Thanks

nope. I would expect it to be at least $5.00 - $10.00 more then the current basic DVR price of $9.95 - $11.95 per month.

The Tivo interface looks great IMO. MUCH better than I-GUIDE. While functional, I-GUIDE is so plain compared to Aptiv's Passport, Diego's Moxi, or Tivo's interface. I wonder if the firmware will fix the HDMI bug's people have been having. So there's the age old dilemma of what shall I do?

Wait for the Panasonic 250GB DVR , no extra monthly cost, but same old boring I-Guide, or pay more and get the Tivo for Motorola. I have a DCT-6412/2000, and it's speculated in these forums that I'd need to get a 64xx P3 or newer (even though all those sites don't specify). So there's another downside. Also the Tivo remote doesn't appear to be multifunction. I like the remote, but can you program it to at least power on your TV?

So what do you think, get much more storage in a new box by Panasonic or swap out for a 34xx box and upgrade to Tivo when its available?

The Panasonic STB will have the J-Guide not the I-Guide. and will only be made available in areas that are setup for OCAP. And TiVo will be building a OCAP / JAVA based Software for it reported to be available in mid 2008 or so...

nope. I would expect it to be at least $5.00 - $10.00 more then the current basic DVR price of $9.95 - $11.95 per month.

On that note, I would think that it would be STUPID to price it higher than what DirecTV charges for their Tivo fee.

Not that we have been told. This would take more space away from what little is already available in the small HDD.

This is bogus. I had a first gen ReplayTV with a small hard disk and it could store the guide data. Guide data is extremely small in comparison to recorded media. Comcast chooses to not store guide data, IMHO, so that one cannot access and play back the device without a cable connection.

[QUOTE=cypherstream]The Tivo interface looks great IMO. MUCH better than I-GUIDE. While functional, I-GUIDE is so plain compared to Aptiv's Passport, Diego's Moxi, or Tivo's interface. I wonder if the firmware will fix the HDMI bug's people have been having. So there's the age old dilemma of what shall I do?


I currently use Aptiv's Passport echo on a Motorola 6412 phase3 and it looks like crap compared to the I guide, or Tivo, There is no way to have premium channels in a different color in the OnScreenGuide like Iguide.

ajwees41

Not really, just go to channel 1.I meant necessary for Comcast. People are much more likely to use it if it has its own button.

Is there a date yet of when we can upgrade to the Tivo software?No

If that's the case, then it's a disaster... :mad:Not too much hyperbole, eh? :cool:

No bicker1, Comcast is cheap (relatively speaking), which is why I use the boxes, as disheartening as it is.So, you accept the limitations of the offering because it is an especially good value for you, and serves your family's consensus needs better than the alternatives.

To use something that I call inexcusable is not contradictory or hypocritical.We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lots of folks who come online to complain about Comcast (and other big comapnies) almost seems like they're suffering an addiction scenario. Denial is the first stage of addiction, and typically it takes the form of refusing to acknowledge that they're actually accepting the service, at the price offered -- that they have logically and rationally made the decision that it is the best value available to them. The second step is resentment, which such folks seem to be experience pretty readily -- everyone likes to complain -- it makes them feel better about themselves despite what they see themselves doing to themselves.

The next step is acceptance.

Denial is the first stage of addiction...

Ah, we have a therapist in our midst. I've always loved that line. You can ask Jesus himself if he's an alcoholic, and when he says no you can throw that cheap line at him. Kind of like the old question: do you still beat your wife?

I got some more pictures and details while I was at TiVo's booth here.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/

Looks like the CC option has been added into the TiVo software. It is listed in one of the menus.

So, you accept the limitations of the offering because it is an especially good value for you, and serves your family's consensus needs better than the alternatives.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lots of folks who come online to complain about Comcast (and other big comapnies) almost seems like they're suffering an addiction scenario. Denial is the first stage of addiction, and typically it takes the form of refusing to acknowledge that they're actually accepting the service, at the price offered -- that they have logically and rationally made the decision that it is the best value available to them. The second step is resentment, which such folks seem to be experience pretty readily -- everyone likes to complain -- it makes them feel better about themselves despite what they see themselves doing to themselves.

The next step is acceptance.

Comcast is an ACCEPTABLE value for me, which is why I use it. That doesn't mean that I'm not angry that the software is a POS. I worked in the software industry for 30+ years, from punch-card days to the present, and I think I recognize a lazy piece of development when I see it. OTOH, at the price I'll live with it, but don't make me say that it's anything other than a POS. Would I be willing to pay a few dollars more for something useful? Yes, but with resentment, because it doesn't cost a whole lot more to do a good job than a crummy job on software. As to what that resentment is doing to me, I think that perhaps you think a STB is a much larger portion of my life's contentment than I do; it's only a piece of electronics fer cryin out loud.

BTW, this is the only complaint against Comcast I have. I generally get good service at an acceptable price (okay, maybe it's a bit high, but whatever). So I don't know why I should be lumped in with some category of addiction (of your own devising). If it makes you feel better, and as a first step to recovery :) , I'll state it here: Comcast is on balance a good value proposition for me and my family. Their STB/DVR is on balance a good value proposition for me and my family. I lease it, therefore I embrace it.

[QUOTE=cypherstream]The Tivo interface looks great IMO. MUCH better than I-GUIDE. While functional, I-GUIDE is so plain compared to Aptiv's Passport, Diego's Moxi, or Tivo's interface. I wonder if the firmware will fix the HDMI bug's people have been having. So there's the age old dilemma of what shall I do?


I currently use Aptiv's Passport echo on a Motorola 6412 phase3 and it looks like crap compared to the I guide, or Tivo, There is no way to have premium channels in a different color in the OnScreenGuide like Iguide.

ajwees41


Ajwees41, I like Passport on SA boxes. Passport on SA have Channel logo's and nice animations and sound effects. Does Passport on Motorola have support for interactivity, such as the Passtime Games, or Buzztime Games applications?



Back to Tivo, it looks great. Now I'm waiting to see what the Panasonic box and J-Guide look like. I'll have to see which route I want to go. It's going to be an interesting year!

On that note, I would think that it would be STUPID to price it higher than what DirecTV charges for their Tivo fee.
The pricing models are different. With DTV you pay ONCE for DVR service, no matter how many DVRs you have. I believe the current price is $5.99 (it was when I quit DTV a month or two ago anyway). Each additional receiver (DVR or not) is an extra $5 as well. So in my house with 3 DVRs, DTV would charge 3*5 + 6 = $21. Comcast charges the DVR fee and the digital outlet fee for each unit. Currently that's about $15 * 3 for me so about $45/mo.

Too bad DTV is intent on running their HD DVR offering into the ground. (Crappy units, high price, low availability.)

I am really stoked for the TiVo-on-Moto offering. I really wanted a HD DVR so I abandoned my dependable Series 1 DirecTivo for Comcast/Moto but the software is very primitive in comparison to the years-old DTivo. TiVo-on-Moto looks very promising so far. I hope we get some real in-the-field reports from beta testers soon! I'm dying of curiosity.

-jsd-

The pricing models are different.

I haven't seen the pricing for the Tivo-on-Moto unit...what is it?!

[QUOTE=ajwees41]


Ajwees41, I like Passport on SA boxes. Passport on SA have Channel logo's and nice animations and sound effects. Does Passport on Motorola have support for interactivity, such as the Passtime Games, or Buzztime Games applications?



Back to Tivo, it looks great. Now I'm waiting to see what the Panasonic box and J-Guide look like. I'll have to see which route I want to go. It's going to be an interesting year!


The Supported Motorola boxes are the Dvr's for Passtime Games. Non dvr's don't get the games.

ajwees41

This is bogus. I had a first gen ReplayTV with a small hard disk and it could store the guide data. Guide data is extremely small in comparison to recorded media. Comcast chooses to not store guide data, IMHO, so that one cannot access and play back the device without a cable connection.
In practice, I haven't found it to be that big of a deal. The box saves the recording schedule to disk so that after a reboot it still knows when it is supposed to record a program, it just doesn't know the name of the program (or if it's changed) right away. The next 24-72 hours fills in pretty quickly and then 1-2 weeks out fills in over a few days. Until the guide data is filled in, your future recordings show up as "to be announced" in the list.

It would be a problem if the guide data changed just after a reboot for a program that was starting in the next 30-60 minutes, but this is a relatively unlikely sequence of events.

I think they chose not to store guide data because they decided they didn't need to do so. It works pretty fast with the guide data in memory and it fills in pretty quickly after a reboot. I wouldn't blame a conspiracy here. We all know that the box won't work w/o a cable subscription period. There's no reason to try and tie that to the guide data.

I haven't seen the pricing for the Tivo-on-Moto unit...what is it?!
Nobody knows yet! Hell, Comcast/Cox probably hasn't figured it out yet....

We all know that the box won't work w/o a cable subscription period. There's no reason to try and tie that to the guide data.

But, it would be nice to be able to watch recorded programs when the cable goes out for three hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Comcast to Bring TiVo to SA Set-Tops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Todd Spangler 1/11/2007 5:23:00

Comcast, which is currently testing the digital-video-recorder device developed with TiVo on Motorola set-tops, plans to eventually deliver the TiVo DVR software on Scientific Atlanta boxes, as well.

“We want to get [TiVo] on all of our [set-top] platforms,” said Mark Hess, Comcast’s senior vice president of video-product development. He didn’t provide an expected timeline on an SA version of TiVo.

This week at the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Comcast and TiVo demonstrated the DVR service, initially running on Motorola’s 3400- and 6400-series set-tops. The code is written to the Java-based middleware created by TVWorks, a company backed by Comcast and Cox Communications. Called TV Navigator, the software provides a subset of OpenCable Application Platform programming interfaces and is intended to be a precursor to set-tops that support the full Cable Television Laboratories OCAP spec.

“Unlike other TiVo products, this works on industry-standard set-tops,” said Jeff Klugman, general manager of TiVo’s service-provider division.

That means the finished TiVo application for Motorola set-tops should, in theory, be much easier to port to SA, which is also working to get TV Navigator running on its set-tops, according to Ken Morse, SA’s VP of client architecture for subscriber networks. But Hess added that there are always kinks to iron out because even with a common standard, individual vendors’ implementations inevitably vary.

Comcast’s TiVo-on-Motorola application, currently being tested in Denver, is slated to go into initial market trials this spring. Comcast originally expected to have TiVo widely deployed by the end of 2006.

The operator hasn’t disclosed pricing for the TiVo service. Klugman wouldn’t discuss financial details of the Comcast deal, but he said TiVo will receive recurring revenue.

Comcast is an ACCEPTABLE value for me, which is why I use it.Thank you. That was my point.

That doesn't mean that I'm not angry that the software is a POS.I save anger for things that are important, like people dying, or people being harmed, or really consequential amounts of financial embezzlement. It keeps the BP in check.

I worked in the software industry for 30+ years, from punch-card days to the present, and I think I recognize a lazy piece of development when I see it.I'm sorry to dispute your insight, then, because, after working in the industry for 20+ years (I did the punch-cards in college), performing in-depth software process and project evaluations at literally dozens of software development organizations, working at three different software companies (including one who's name has three letters), and running a major software development project myself, I know that you cannot "recognize a lazy piece of development" by looking at the end-product. That totally ignores the realities of the unique challenges of each project. That's like saying that the TiVo Series 3 should cost $350 -- that $799 is "a lazy bit of pricing". :)

Lots of people have no idea what goes into developing a first-class HD DVR. So no, you cannot judge the effort from the end-product. All you can judge from then end-product is whether it is acceptable to you, for the price being charged. And that's a yes-or-no question; it isn't a foundation for recriminations against the company offering it. Their objectives may not mesh with yours.

If it makes you feel better, and as a first step to recovery :) , I'll state it here: Comcast is on balance a good value proposition for me and my family. Their STB/DVR is on balance a good value proposition for me and my family. I lease it, therefore I embrace it.I'm glad to have helped! :D

In practice, I haven't found it to be that big of a deal. The box saves the recording schedule to disk so that after a reboot it still knows when it is supposed to record a program, it just doesn't know the name of the program (or if it's changed) right away. The next 24-72 hours fills in pretty quickly and then 1-2 weeks out fills in over a few days. Until the guide data is filled in, your future recordings show up as "to be announced" in the list.

It would be a problem if the guide data changed just after a reboot for a program that was starting in the next 30-60 minutes, but this is a relatively unlikely sequence of events.

I think they chose not to store guide data because they decided they didn't need to do so. It works pretty fast with the guide data in memory and it fills in pretty quickly after a reboot. I wouldn't blame a conspiracy here. We all know that the box won't work w/o a cable subscription period. There's no reason to try and tie that to the guide data.
Yes, it's probably not a conspiracy. But it boggles my mind that 7-8 years ago (whenever I got my first gen ReplayTV), the guide data was stored on disk (just a 20G disk) with guide updates downloaded every night. If the power glitch happened, no TBAs appeared on the schedule, and the guide didn't take 24-72 hours to fill in. It was there instantly. The Comcast download isn't a horrible problem, just something that irritates me whenever it happens, because it shouldn't have to happen. So consipiracy, who knows? Lazy programming, probably. Poor human factors and usability design, definitely.

Yes, it's probably not a conspiracy. But it boggles my mind that 7-8 years ago (whenever I got my first gen ReplayTV), the guide data was stored on disk (just a 20G disk) with guide updates downloaded every night. If the power glitch happened, no TBAs appeared on the schedule, and the guide didn't take 24-72 hours to fill in. It was there instantly. The Comcast download isn't a horrible problem, just something that irritates me whenever it happens, because it shouldn't have to happen. So consipiracy, who knows? Lazy programming, probably. Poor human factors and usability design, definitely.

Of course during the same time period the Series I Tivos did the same thing as Replay,some with as small as a 14GB disk, and a flakey modem that had to often take multiple tries. Even so it worked better than the Motorola/Comcast Iguide with 10 times the disk space and enormous possible bandwidth.

I think the explanation is that the Iguide was designed for the diskless STB's, and Comcast/Motorola did the minimum to differentiate the DVR's and piggybacked on the existing infrastructure.

Lets hope the Tivo port does better.

That totally ignores the realities of the unique challenges of each project.

One example: Knowing what state to return to when a recording is finished (i.e., do you leave the DVR on or turn it off) is not a unique challenge for a project; ReplayTV (and I assume Tivo) successfully solved the problem a long time ago. More than half a decade later, I get a Moto STB that began a recording while the DVR was off, during the recording I gave it every indication of its being "on" for my viewing pleasure (by using menus, changing channels, etc.), and the damned thing will still turn off when the recording is over. FWIW, they appear to have fixed this recently. One can debate whether that's lazy programming, lazy design, lazy testing, lazy requirements analysis, or perhaps the word sub-optimal would be preferable to lazy, but it ain't world-class development, and expecting someone to have solved the problem does not ignore the unique challenges of the Moto STB project.

In any case, you said it best a while ago, perhaps we should just agree to disagree, and go on our merry ways.

Remote looks good, can't wait!

I've never had a Tivo myself so someone please tell me... is the button above the 'D' button a '30 sec skip' ?

If not we should be able to reprogram the remote like we can on the current comcast remote right ?...because the codes that enable skip are set in stone in the box?

i think this is my 4th post, I have some links I need to post..!

I've never had a Tivo myself so someone please tell me... is the button above the 'D' button a '30 sec skip'?

Yes. It also serves as a "FF to next index" button. While FF'ding, you hit that and it moves several minutes at a time...something the Moto doesn't have.

I haven't seen the pricing for the Tivo-on-Moto unit...what is it?!
Hasn't been announced yet. My point was that comcast charges a DVR fee for each DVR whereas DirecTV charges it once for any number of DVRs.

On that note, I would think that it would be STUPID to price it higher than what DirecTV charges for their Tivo fee.

i'm thinking it will be more like $5 extra..

Yes. It also serves as a "FF to next index" button. While FF'ding, you hit that and it moves several minutes at a time...something the Moto doesn't have.
The 30 sec skip is not enabled by default on TiVo, you have to enter a secret code to enable it. (At least, it's that way on my TiVo.)

By default, the right-facing arrow button skips to the end of the program. If you're in FF or REW it skips to the next "tick" mark. You get ticks every 15 minutes. Surprisingly, that's one of the features I miss the most on the Moto DVR.

My point was that comcast charges a DVR fee for each DVR whereas DirecTV charges it once for any number of DVRs.

And my point was (irrespective of DVR leases/purchases) that the additional Tivo fee should be commensurate.

ok finally i have more than 5 posts..!
so here's a link to an article of an interview with Tivo CEO Tom Rogers, the interesting thing he mentions that I didn't see elsewhere is that Tivo are getting $1/month per Comcast Tivo subscriber... for this reason i'm expecting the price we pay to be on the lower side of that $5-$10 range Scanpa suggested

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PA_GADGET_SHOW_COMCAST_TIVO_PAOL-?SITE=NYBIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Also if you didn't see these yet I found two different video demos...

from pc world...
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003507.html

and from cnet...
http://reviews.cnet.com/TiVo_service_for_cable/4660-6474_7-6684081.html

cNET has a very brief article about Motorola's Follow Me TV presentation at CES which says:

Motorola's Follow Me TV feature for its DVR set-top boxes lets users choose which TV to watch a recorded TV show on.

Instead of keeping content stored on only that TV, Follow Me TV lets users bring TV with them from room to room. Any recorded show is aggregated and made available on any TV on the network. In addition to TV programs, music and photos can also follow to any TV, and the content can also be sent to portable devices.

Or, as Motorola CEO Ed Zander demonstrated for the audience here at CES 2007, you can pause a live show, push a button, and pick up that show in a different room.

Verizon first introduced the service on its multiroom DVR in late 2006, but Zander announced during his keynote Monday morning that Comcast will be offering it this year.

Sounds like some of the other functions that TiVo offers will be available to Comcast customers sometime this year.

This looks great yes, it's running on a Motorola DCH-6412, there's a demo video from cnet here...
http://reviews.cnet.com/Motorola_Follow_Me_TV/4660-12760_7-6683321.html?tag=vid

for me this is worth getting just for the integrated search, i hate the tedium of navigating on demand with it's multiple clicks when i'm trying to find a movie/show i might be interested in, it's just painful... with comcast tivo i'll be able to search and get a list of matches that include on air and on demand in the same results, not only that - the search updates live as i type each character and looks so much easier to type the letters... at the moment my wife falls asleep waiting while i try and pick a movie!

I love what Thomas Desmond said about this in another thread:Some of the expectations of price versus features in this thread seem, well, perhaps a bit unrealistic. Unfortunately, that's probably one of the reasons why we're not actually seeing many products come to market and last for any length of time. People do have a warped sense of what it takes to design, develop and produce what they desire.

Soooo... we have any "insiders" that can give us a rollout date?

Interesting that I have yet to see any pics of live or recorded TV from the new TiVo software. I wonder if the green play bar, etc looks the same or not....

Soooo... we have any "insiders" that can give us a rollout date?

Nevermind... looks like an April/May rollout for "select markets" and hopes for all Comcast users by Q1 of 08? BOOOOOO

ok finally i have more than 5 posts..!
so here's a link to an article of an interview with Tivo CEO Tom Rogers, the interesting thing he mentions that I didn't see elsewhere is that Tivo are getting $1/month per Comcast Tivo subscriber... for this reason i'm expecting the price we pay to be on the lower side of that $5-$10 range Scanpa suggestedWell, I don't think the amount of the royalty is any indication of how much Comcast will charge subscribers. I remember that when this deal was first announced, Comcast paid Tivo a lump sum in consideration of technology licensing and porting the software to the Moto hardware. In that quote Rogers also said the "approximately $1/month... is pure profit" for Tivo. That's because they've already been paid for the development and they have no ongoing service support duties, unlike their own standalone units.

- Mike

For some more good info on the Comcast TiVo software, be sure to read this.

http://blog.tivolovers.com/408326.html

I have also learned the TiVo software is OCAP based, so it will be the first OCAP software to be used on the Motorola DCT, DCH, QIP STB series.

This also makes it easier to code for other OCAP based STB, like SA, Pana. ect.

Also found out that Philadelphia and Boston are both 100% OCAP headend Buildout completed.

Wow all of this excitement seemed to crash tivolovers.com ! I'll have to check that link out another day :-(

I have also learned the TiVo software is OCAP based, so it will be the first OCAP software to be used on the Motorola DCT, DCH, QIP STB series.

This also makes it easier to code for other OCAP based STB, like SA, Pana. ect.

Also found out that Philadelphia and Boston are both 100% OCAP headend Buildout completed.

Does this news story mean that Comcast will have to implement OCAP everywhere by July?
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=industryNews&storyID=2007-01-11T181124Z_01_N11401815_RTRIDST_0_INDUSTRY-FCC-COMCAST-CABLECARD-DC.XML&WTmodLoc=EntNewsIndustry_C2_industryNews-3

If so would that mean everywhere becomes compatible with Comcast Tivo within 6mths?

Does this news story mean that Comcast will have to implement OCAP everywhere by July?
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=industryNews&storyID=2007-01-11T181124Z_01_N11401815_RTRIDST_0_INDUSTRY-FCC-COMCAST-CABLECARD-DC.XML&WTmodLoc=EntNewsIndustry_C2_industryNews-3

If so would that mean everywhere becomes compatible with Comcast Tivo within 6mths?

No, all this means is that Comcast must start renting STB's that do NOT have integrated security -- i.e. the boxes must use CableCARDs for their decryption. AFAIK, this has nothing to do with OCAP.

Also found out that Philadelphia and Boston are both 100% OCAP headend Buildout completed.

Best news I've had in 3 weeks!

No, all this means is that Comcast must start renting STB's that do NOT have integrated security -- i.e. the boxes must use CableCARDs for their decryption. AFAIK, this has nothing to do with OCAP.

Right. But it would be possible I guess to take back our 3416s, 6412s, etc., and then pick up whatever the newer box will be after July. Does anyone know what box they will be using? Will there be an updated 3416 etc. that will have cablecards? Or some completely different stb?

No, all this means is that Comcast must start renting STB's that do NOT have integrated security -- i.e. the boxes must use CableCARDs for their decryption. AFAIK, this has nothing to do with OCAP.
According the the article here (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070111-8599.html) they would not have to use cablecards but could use DCAS available not from CableLabs but others.

According the the article here (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070111-8599.html) they would not have to use cablecards but could use DCAS available not from CableLabs but others.

I forgot about DCAS. However as the article says MSO's won't have the implementation done in time by the July 1 deadline. Hopefully this will be the kick in the rear they need. My guess is they'll order x number of STB's that have CableCARD support and then slowly introduce the DCAS-compatible boxes as the headends are upgraded.

Right. But it would be possible I guess to take back our 3416s, 6412s, etc., and then pick up whatever the newer box will be after July. Does anyone know what box they will be using? Will there be an updated 3416 etc. that will have cablecards? Or some completely different stb?Do keep in mind that right after they introduce a new box, they typically have a lot of problems with them. I'm going to wait a while, after July, before I even consider making any changes that could result in me losing my DCT3416. (I may even pay the extra money for a spare, obtained in June, just in case :))

Incidentally, I think we need to stop using shorthand like "3416s" because the replacement for the DCT3416 will be the DCH3416.

The DCH will have CC slots and I don't see any available at this time. When they become available, it would probably be a good idea to start a new thread specific to it.

Good point regarding the shorthand.

If the "new" boxes will just be the same old 3416 hardware with cable card slots added, I doubt I will trade in my existing two DCT3416s.

from:
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail.jsp?globalObjectId=7565_7494_23

"LAS VEGAS – 8 January 2007 -- Motorola, Inc (NYSE:MOT) and Comcast (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) today announced that the companies have expanded their previously announced multi-year purchase agreement for digital set-tops.

The announcement was made at the 2007 International Consumer Electronics show (8-11 January, Las Vegas Convention Center) where Motorola (Stand #8545) is exhibiting.

Under the expanded agreement, Comcast will purchase several set-top models from Motorola, including dual-tuner, high-definition (HD) digital video recorders (DVRs), and all-digital cable receivers. These next-generation digital set-tops will support Comcast’s Residential Network Gateway (RNG) specification along with the Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP) initiative. Several of the models will support Motorola’s Follow Me TV solution and Motorola’s Linux-Java™ software platform. Specific models will be compliant with government-mandated separable security, including CableCARD™ technology, as required."

from:
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail.jsp?globalObjectId=7565_7494_23

"LAS VEGAS – 8 January 2007 -- Motorola, Inc (NYSE:MOT) and Comcast (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) today announced that the companies have expanded their previously announced multi-year purchase agreement for digital set-tops.

The announcement was made at the 2007 International Consumer Electronics show (8-11 January, Las Vegas Convention Center) where Motorola (Stand #8545) is exhibiting.

Under the expanded agreement, Comcast will purchase several set-top models from Motorola, including dual-tuner, high-definition (HD) digital video recorders (DVRs), and all-digital cable receivers. These next-generation digital set-tops will support Comcast’s Residential Network Gateway (RNG) specification along with the Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP) initiative. Several of the models will support Motorola’s Follow Me TV solution and Motorola’s Linux-Java™ software platform. Specific models will be compliant with government-mandated separable security, including CableCARD™ technology, as required."

DOHHHHHHHHHHHHH :(

Anyone know if this thing will require a silly phone line like Direct Tivo does?

Anyone know if this thing will require a silly phone line like Direct Tivo does?

No Phone Line. The Moto STB get the guide data via internal OOB Tuner over the cable coax.

Anyone know if this thing will require a silly phone line like Direct Tivo does?

And the DTiVo required a phone line (and lacked a plethora of other features every S2 and higher TiVo offers) because DirectTV stopped paying for further development on the shared platforms.

S2 units have USB connections for wired or wireless (B or G) adapters, and S3s have an ethernet port (in addition)

FYI :)

I love what Thomas Desmond said about this in another thread:People do have a warped sense of what it takes to design, develop and produce what they desire.

Just to give my 2 cents here (which you can ignore if you want given my number of posts), but I could write better software in my sleep... And yes, I also have as much experience as the two of you. I'm currently working in handheld games, so I know a bit about special considerations needed for these kind of applications...

Seriously, I'd fire anyone who wrote software like this - and then fire the QA department that let it ship.

Seriously, I'd fire anyone who wrote software like this - and then fire the QA department that let it ship.

Before or after having them all beaten up by thugswielding hockey sticks? :)

(I agree with you)

Many of my later years were spent on trading systems for large international banks, the years prior to that working for NASA and such. We wouldn't have required firing; we would have just walked over to HR and resigned.

Bicker1 does have a good point though, that we do make assessments of whether we'll live with it, on balance, or pay gobs of money for an alternative that might not work for all channels. So, I decided (all things considered) to have 3 DVRs, but I reserve the right to curse when the command queue freezes up, or the various other bits of sub-optimal performance strike.

see this article from gizmodo.com -
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-on-comcast-how-it-works-228822.php

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/rodneyremington/Comcast-Central.jpg
Summary--

the TiVo software will be a software push to current motorola units (ie. the 6412) and not a new box.

the TiVo software includes a new remote mailed from Comcast HQ

still no firm release date or price

... I could write better software in my sleep... Gosh, that's what some of my sales hacks say sometimes. :)

Seriously, I don't believe you. Let's leave it at that! :cool: