I pay $18 for the box and $5 for the service, so consider yourself lucky. The ONLY thing keeping me from moving to Tivo is SDV and I'm not sure that should stop me. I believe cablecards here are $3.00 x 2, so I could save $4/mo (more if I pay for a year of Tivo service up front I believe). Though Paul and I have had our differences and I don't have the same issues he does with the 8300/SARA, I'm very close to joining him as a Tivo sub this fall. I am still stubborn about my feelings towards Tivo as a company now wooing cable when they are in financial straights, but there comes a time when the $ savings outweight that. :)

I have a lot of friends who are holding off on the new Tivo HD (even at the $218 CC pricing earlier this week) to see how well the Tivo software runs on the Comcast DVRs.

I know that the software will likely run slower than it does on native Tivo hardware (it will run in a Java environment), will have more bugs, and won't have all Tivo features.

It also won't have expandable storage in all likelihood.

However, for a lot of people, this is what they want. The cable company supported box, that gets all channels (including on-demand and PPV) but with a Tivo interface.

It will be interesting to see how warmly this new box is recieved when it premieres in some markets over the next few months.

As far as cost goes. Don't go there. The Cable company DVR is rented to me for $10 a month. To rent the Tivo it will cost me $200+ for the Tivo, +1.50 for cable cards, +7.00 per month "2nd outlet" charge that Comcast won't budge on +16.99 monthly service for Tivo unless I want to commit to a three year contract. Additionally I lose SDV channels, on-demand and PPV in going to the Tivo.

Um, I have Comcast and this is not my situation at all. I do not pay a 2nd outlet fee. And if you outlaid $200 for the Tivo, why wouldn't you go for a three year contract?

Basically, I pay $9.99 + $1.99 month over month for my Tivo. I lose PPV but I pick up Amazon unboxed. SDV? None of that in my area next, plus it is likely to be used for those rarely watched channels. And once Tivo2Go gets instated on the Series 3, I'll be able to stream movies from my PC to the Tivo.

Tivo is certainly more expensive than using the Comcast DVR. So it is just a matter of opinion whether the extra $250 the box will cost you is worth the better interface. But that is basically the price differential at this point, about $250 - $300 over the life of the unit.

I recently switched to an HD TV and had no intention of spending $400 for the series 3. After about 2 months of the Comcast DVR, I had stopped watching TV. The interface, for me, was horrendous. Enough so that I just didn't want to use it at all. I picked up the series 3 at $400, and it was well worth it for me. I kick myself that I didn't wait another 2 months and get the TivoHD for $210 at CC, but it is what it is.

Um, I have Comcast and this is not my situation at all. I do not pay a 2nd outlet fee. And if you outlaid $200 for the Tivo, why wouldn't you go for a three year contract?

Basically, I pay $9.99 + $1.99 month over month for my Tivo. I lose PPV but I pick up Amazon unboxed. SDV? None of that in my area next, plus it is likely to be used for those rarely watched channels. And once Tivo2Go gets instated on the Series 3, I'll be able to stream movies from my PC to the Tivo.

Average Joe doesn't care if Tivo is "better" than his cable company DVR, he just wants on-demand, PPV, etc, to all work and have a box that will get swapped at a moment's notice by the cable company if there is a problem. He also wants all of his guide data without having to hook up his box to a phoneline or ethernet port.

Tivo is certainly more expensive than using the Comcast DVR. So it is just a matter of opinion whether the extra $250 the box will cost you is worth the better interface. But that is basically the price differential at this point, about $250 - $300 over the life of the unit.

I recently switched to an HD TV and had no intention of spending $400 for the series 3. After about 2 months of the Comcast DVR, I had stopped watching TV. The interface, for me, was horrendous. Enough so that I just didn't want to use it at all. I picked up the series 3 at $400, and it was well worth it for me. I kick myself that I didn't wait another 2 months and get the TivoHD for $210 at CC, but it is what it is.


I mis-stated the '2nd outlet charge'. Basically if you have digital service (which I do) and the Tivo will be connected to an HDTV then Comcast will charge you the extra $7 per month as some kind of HD programming charge.

Unfortunately if you review the Comcast Cable Card thread on Tivocommunity Forums you will see that many many people are paying this fee and can't seem to get out of it.

In any event, your point is essentially correct. If you want the better Tivo experience you have to pay for it. As I point out though, the costs can be substantial depending on a persons individual means, and I don't see the strategy as working at all for the average Joe who is the person Tivo needs the most to avoid losing more marketshare in the DVR market.

Average Joe doesn't want to pay more for what he probably percieves as "less" (no PPV, no on-demand, no free box warranty, etc) and he doesn't know what he's missing with the Tivo experience.

There is no "Additional Digital Outlet" charge if you don't have digital cable. I have "Standard Cable" on Comcast (this is Limited Basic + Expanded Basic) which is basically all the analog channels. On my Series 3 I get all those channels in digital quality because my area has ADS (All Digital Simulcast) plus I get all the HD OTA channels that Comcast carries (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CW). Not only is this a big improvement in picture quality over my Series 1 Tivo for the SD channels because the S3 is recording digital vs. the snowy analog channels, but I get the HD OTA channels that are the bulk of my HD viewing. Granted, most people would want ESPN-HD, etc. but you have to have a digital package (~$20/mo extra) plus the "HD Package" (~$5/mo). That's more than a 50% price increase over "Standard Cable".

- Mike

Discussing pricing is cool and all, in general, but the specifics change by market.

For what service?The recording service. Some cableco's roll in all into a single price, others keep it separate. Without the service though, you can view HD, but you can't record anything.

I should add that price has nothing to do with cost or ROI. It is simply based on what the market will bear and you can't just look at the price of a single item because other things affect the total bill. Though I may pay more for the HD DVR, I may be paying less for other things in my package, including a hefty $27.90 bundle discount.

I knew you'd finally wise up, Dave, and cave in... :)Don't go so fast, my friend, I haven't switched yet. I've always said I'll keep evaluating it as the price gets to a more palatable point and it's finally in that range. There are still issues that give me pause and I won't do anything for a couple of more months, if then. The fanaticism someone else mentioned has been my only real beef with cable DVR detractors.

I live in Manchester, NH, and just received a notice in the mail that, effective September 3, 2007, Comcast is raising the HD DVR rate in my area from $9.95/mo to $12.95/mo. This leads me to believe that perhaps Comcast is going to roll out Tivo to everyone (and charge everyone more for it).

This makes sense on some levels - one system to support in the area rather than two. Anyone in technology knows that standardization has a wealth of benefits to it.

I live in Manchester, NH, and just received a notice in the mail that, effective September 3, 2007, Comcast is raising the HD DVR rate in my area from $9.95/mo to $12.95/mo. This leads me to believe that perhaps Comcast is going to roll out Tivo to everyone (and charge everyone more for it).

This makes sense on some levels - one system to support in the area rather than two. Anyone in technology knows that standardization has a wealth of benefits to it.

Nope. What you've just received is your yearly Comcast price gouging announcement.

From the earliest days of the Comcast/TiVo deal, from the CEO of Comcast on down, they've said that it would be an optional service that you'd have to pay extra for on a monthly basis. There's no way they're going to blast everyone's box with a software update. It'd be a customer support nightmare of huge proportions.

You only need one MultiStream CableCard for the TiVo HD DVR.

I pay $18 for the box and $5 for the service, so consider yourself lucky. The ONLY thing keeping me from moving to Tivo is SDV and I'm not sure that should stop me. I believe cablecards here are $3.00 x 2, so I could save $4/mo (more if I pay for a year of Tivo service up front I believe). Though Paul and I have had our differences and I don't have the same issues he does with the 8300/SARA, I'm very close to joining him as a Tivo sub this fall. I am still stubborn about my feelings towards Tivo as a company now wooing cable when they are in financial straights, but there comes a time when the $ savings outweight that. :)

You only need one MultiStream CableCard for the TiVo HD DVR.Very true, but most cableco's don't seem to have them for anything but the SA8300HDC (and maybe similar Moto units), and I believe those come with the card pre-installed. Also, I don't believe I've seen a price for the M-Card.

I live in Manchester, NH, and just received a notice in the mail that, effective September 3, 2007, Comcast is raising the HD DVR rate in my area from $9.95/mo to $12.95/mo. This leads me to believe that perhaps Comcast is going to roll out Tivo to everyone (and charge everyone more for it).It has been a long time since the DVR fee has increased. It was not increased during the last annual price increase, and according to the 2005 price list I have here, it hasn't even increased in price since then. So this price increase was long overdue. It has nothing to do with the TiVo software.

The tech who came out to install CableCards in my TiVo HD knew about the TiVo Motorola software, said the company told them employees would get the first crack at it, and said he was looking forward to it himself. We're in western Massachusetts.

It has been a long time since the DVR fee has increased. It was not increased during the last annual price increase, and according to the 2005 price list I have here, it hasn't even increased in price since then. So this price increase was long overdue. It has nothing to do with the TiVo software.

It's a service fee, so it's not unreasonable that it not be increased unless additional services are added. I think a better question is what enhanced service or featureshas Comcast added to their DVR service to justify a 30% price increase? I know inflation in two years or the value of the 2007 versuses the 2005 dollar don't justify it.

It's a service fee, so it's not unreasonable that it not be increased unless additional services are added. I think a better question is what enhanced service or featureshas Comcast added to their DVR service to justify a 30% price increase? I know inflation in two years or the value of the 2007 versuses the 2005 dollar don't justify it.

Comcast and other cable co's have said the price increases are in response to the FCC mandates on cable cards being passed on to consumers.

We do now get obtrusive ads in the guide now. How's that for added service?

Comcast and other cable co's have said the price increases are in response to the FCC mandates on cable cards being passed on to consumers.

It really is disgusting, isn't it? The FCC mandates something that is supposed to be for the benefit of the consumer and the provider uses it against the consumer, pointing their finger at the FCC.

The whole thing makes me seriously consider giving up on paid TV all together.

But that is pretty much the way it works.

The government mandates airbags and you pay for them. The auto manufacturers aren't going to. Government mandates are always paid for by the consumer in the private sector. And by the tax payers in the public sector. Which turns out to be the same people by the way.

That's just the way it works.

We do now get obtrusive ads in the guide now. How's that for added service?
I think your market is a rarity. They're worse than ever in MN.

It's a service fee, so it's not unreasonable that it not be increased unless additional services are added. I think a better question is what enhanced service or featureshas Comcast added to their DVR service to justify a 30% price increase? I know inflation in two years or the value of the 2007 versuses the 2005 dollar don't justify it.

Bingo.

...and DVRs have nothing to do with mandating cable cards. I know someone has to pay for the cable cards, but why screw the DVR people?

Bingo.

...and DVRs have nothing to do with mandating cable cards. I know someone has to pay for the cable cards, but why screw the DVR people?

They are screwing everyone. They have also raised the rates on regular non-DVR cable boxes.

It's a service fee, so it's not unreasonable that it not be increased unless additional services are added.What kind of "logic" is that? Service fees get increased for a variety of reasons: Enhancement to the service, cost inflation, higher demand, and reduced supply.

And it's PED. Price elasticity of demand. They're going to consistently test PED. It's not unique to cable. It is a universal business principle. Those that may not understand that there is a science to an effective pricing model typically become the most frustrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Comcast can because it has sufficient demand. Tivo can't because the opposite is true. Tivo needs to figure out a way to increase demand. Entering the market with the TivoHD at $299 is an example of this.

Enhancement to the service, cost inflation, higher demand, and reduced supply.

There have been no enhancements to the service since the last price increase that I can tell.

Inflation from 2004 to 2006 (sorry don't have the latest figure) $9.95 in 2004 would be
$10.63.

When the boxes came out there was demand so high there were waiting lists and only one box allowed per customer. Now they have boxes readily available and are allowing multiple DVRs per household. So looks like there is high demand and a high supply which would only drive down costs.

Also from 2004 to 2007, the DVR should cost significantly less to produce and Comcast shouldn't be paying the same for them that they did in 2004. Plus the thing still doesn't work right and the firmware has been screwed up since they were rolled out.

I'd go Tivo right now but there's a strong possibility I'm moving out of state next year and would switch to DirecTV to still be able to watch my local sports teams so that's not a very good investment.

Bingo.

...and DVRs have nothing to do with mandating cable cards. I know someone has to pay for the cable cards, but why screw the DVR people?How do you figure THAT? DVRs had to be replaced with higher priced cablecard-enabled models just like non-DVRs. If you get a new unit after July 1, it will be one with cablecards. Rather than get into a billing nightmare, they simply increased costs across the board to spread the cost for the new units/cards. And I would expect that most new units are HD DVRs because they already have a pretty good inventory of non-HD non-DVRs.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the FCC. Their stupid mandate has done nothing for competition, but it has raised everyone's cost. And, to make matters worse, once DCAS gets here, the cablecard units/cards will have to be replaced again and phased out.

How do you figure THAT? DVRs had to be replaced with higher priced cablecard-enabled models just like non-DVRs. If you get a new unit after July 1, it will be one with cablecards. Rather than get into a billing nightmare, they simply increased costs across the board to spread the cost for the new units/cards. And I would expect that most new units are HD DVRs because they already have a pretty good inventory of non-HD non-DVRs.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the FCC. Their stupid mandate has done nothing for competition, but it has raised everyone's cost. And, to make matters worse, once DCAS gets here, the cablecard units/cards will have to be replaced again and phased out.

Ya, I sure pine for the days when we could only have a Telephone Company approved telephone in our homes that we had to lease for $5-$10 a month too. :rolleyes:

Ya, I sure pine for the days when we could only have a Telephone Company approved telephone in our homes that we had to lease for $5-$10 a month too. :rolleyes:

But this is a poor analogy. With the telephone company there was only one provider. There were no choices.

With television content there are any number of choices. And these choices are increasing. There's satellite providers, new telco offerings, an ever increasing amount of content via broadband. And of course OTA.

Nobody forces anybody to rent a cableo STB. There are numerous paths to content.

The July date accomplished nothing. Well increased costs aside. Cable cards have been around for years. CE devices that utilize cable cards have been around for years. Televisions for example. Tivo. All the July date did was mandate that cablecos use them. I'm not sure what that did to level the playing field.

Nothing stopped CE manufactures from developing a cable card DVR prior to July 2007. This date is meaningless when it comes to CE companies entering the cable card DVR market. It has been an open market for some time now. Sony for example could have introduced a cable card driven DVR with TVGOS last year. But has chosen not to. The July date has no bearing in its consideration.

DVR or STB rentals are too easy and reasonable financially to the average consumer. For these reasons I believe a competing CE retail choice has failed to develop. July 2007 isn't going to help that.

How do you figure THAT?

You make a good point on how to pay for the CCs, but it just pisses me off when I get a letter in the mail saying that my (2) DVRs that've never worked right for the past two years are going to cost me 30% more.

But this is a poor analogy. With the telephone company there was only one provider. There were no choices.

OK so far...

Nobody forces anybody to rent a cableo STB. There are numerous paths to content.

I must rent a box to get anything more than the basic network feeds. I must rent a box to get any content via satellite. Sure, I can choose to not rent a box, if I also choose to relegate my viewing options to the (sub)standard fare provided by those options. "Other paths to content" means internet downloads, which vary from simple mirrors the stuff that you can get without renting a box, or end-user generated crap that no one watches.

The July date accomplished nothing. Well increased costs aside. Cable cards have been around for years. CE devices that utilize cable cards have been around for years. Televisions for example. Tivo. All the July date did was mandate that cablecos use them. I'm not sure what that did to level the playing field.

Nothing stopped CE manufactures from developing a cable card DVR prior to July 2007. This date is meaningless when it comes to CE companies entering the cable card DVR market. It has been an open market for some time now. Sony for example could have introduced a cable card driven DVR with TVGOS last year. But has chosen not to. The July date has no bearing in its consideration.

DVR or STB rentals are too easy and reasonable financially to the average consumer. For these reasons I believe a competing CE retail choice has failed to develop. July 2007 isn't going to help that.

Wow, thanks for chiming in with the pro-cableco talking points. :(

Sure, CableCARDs have been around for a while, along with the cableco's kicking, screaming and railing against them. All of that bitching muddied the waters, clouded the future and lead the CE manufacturers to wonder whether building CableCARD-equipped devices was a feasible venture. The CE guys are going to spend corporate R&D dollars on a device who's existence is predicated upon a key technology which may or may not be around next year. If they did choose to build a CableCARD device, it was treated as a novelty, and not as a core feature of a product line.

That changed with the FCC's insistence on the July 2007 deadline that the cableco's eat their own dog food (CableCARD). That gave the CE guys the certainty they needed to start to develop competitive products using CableCARDs (be it TiVo, Vista-powered PCs, or what have you). And since these products were not side-shows, but the main attraction, quantities of scale brought the prices of these devices down to reasonable levels.

Prior to July 2007, the market was "open" but not level, by any stretch of the imagination. You had the cableco boxes with an inherent advantage, with integrated security and the cost reductions you gain by not having to incorporate the seperate security the CE guys had to build into the boxes to make them compatible. Now that all manufacturers are tied to the same standard, the playing field has been leveled.

As for the lack of competitive CE products, let's give the TiVoHD a while to establish itself before you start calling that race...

The July date accomplished nothing. Well increased costs aside. Cable cards have been around for years. CE devices that utilize cable cards have been around for years. Televisions for example. Tivo. All the July date did was mandate that cablecos use them. I'm not sure what that did to level the playing field.

Nothing stopped CE manufactures from developing a cable card DVR prior to July 2007. This date is meaningless when it comes to CE companies entering the cable card DVR market. It has been an open market for some time now. Sony for example could have introduced a cable card driven DVR with TVGOS last year. But has chosen not to. The July date has no bearing in its consideration.

Cable cards have been around because this mandate has been coming for years. With out this mandate cable cards would have never been created. The mandate was that the security had to be implemented separately from the box so that third parties could design boxes to use the same security, EG Tivo series 3 and Tivo HD. Cable cards are the first attempt by Cable Cos to meet this mandate. The software based version is the Cable Cos second response when they realized they weren't going to be able to lobby their way outta using cable cards and that they aren't a very good solution.

The cut off date in the mandate was to ensure that what ever they developed was fully functional and properly supported since the cable co had to use it too and not poorly implemented and poorly supported as something the cable co wasn't interested in and only gave token support for because it had to. It was also meant to drive the costs of the cards and components needed to implement them down with economies of scale.

Blaming the mandate for separate security for the pricing increase really is a farce. The mandate says they can't deploy any NEW boxes with out separate security modules. My understanding is that they do not have to replace everyones existing and can continue to reuse existing boxes that are returned by customers. Since the date has passed it's pretty easy to see that they haven't replaced my box and are still giving out the same reused boxes. The only boxes they have use that meet the new mandate are new boxes bought either to replace failed boxes or when expanding their install base and needing more units. I would guess that most locations have received 1 shipment of new boxes and they have maybe a couple dozen boxes out of thousands of total boxes that have cable cards right now. I suspect that the Cable card version of cable boxes will never be a large percentage of the Cable Cos actual cable boxes. With it now obvious that they will not be able to avoid the mandate I expect the software version to be rushed out in a hurry and that cable card boxes will be a small blip for cable companies between their old proprietary boxes and the new software based versions.

I think the July mandate will help things. Part of the reason that only Tivo has done much with cable cards has been because it's support and functionality has been pretty spotty and problematic. Tivo really had no other choice that to try and use cable cards since they couldn't implement their product with the features they needed with out it. Now that the Cable Co's have to use it for all new boxes they are putting into service this should improve.

Right now things haven't really improved and Cable Co's seem to be using the mandate as an excuse for a pricing increase but in the long run it will be a benefit to customers IMO. With in 2 or 3 years I expect a new Tivo box with the software version of cable cards that not only works better but is also cheaper. I don't think a 150-200$ box with the same feature would be out of the question.

And nothing, as a result, will happen in the CE cable card device market. The mandate was a 1990's decision that may have sounded good at the time but does not foot with today's technology landscape.

As a result consumers pay more via mandate in order to subsidize innovation - which most likely will never see the light of day.

I have never worked for a cable company. I own no cable company stock and I'd like to see Tivo survive. I have been a cable customer. And have no real complaints. I personally appreciate the fact that a low cost rental option is available in the HD DVR space. When I do a bit of research and price out HD DVR prices in markets/countries that do not have a HD rental model I appreciate this option even more. Tivo is breaking new ground with its $299 model. I applaud this. But this price can only be supported with subsequent subscription fess in the model. Other CE companies do not have this benefit.

I hope it is successful. Tivo found out the hard way that this is a price driven market segment with the failure of its S3 (the president of Tivo has admitted this publicly). So as a result Tivo is now selling "price" along with its feature set. Hopefully it is not too late. I found this interesting. Just an opinion but I also wonder how things will play out.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivohd072307.htm

What is the next move for Tivo if TivoHD sales do not rise to expectations?

Perhaps OCAP will motivate more CE companies to enter the market. But with OCAP it is my understanding it is the cableco guide that is served to the CE device.

Regardless, I still don't feel July 2007 will have any real impact on new CE cable card driven devices.

What you seem to fail to realize is that the Cable companies have actively worked against CC and against CEs like TiVo while talking out of the other side of their mouth to congress, telling them how they support these guys.

Go to Tivocommunityforums.com and see all of the cable card install horror stories that have nothing to do with TiVo and everything to do with hostile or incompetent people from the Cable Co's who still don't know how to do a Cable Card installation even though the devices have been out for "years".

Or Cable implementing SDV with no solution for end users with cable card devices (televisions, DVRs, etc) to watch those SDV channels.

What the Cable Companies have proven is that they can follow the letter of the law, but not the spirit of the law, which is allowing customers more choice in the devices they use to watch digital and HD content.

I actually get angry when I see this thread title now. oh well..maybe by winter?

I actually get angry when I see this thread title now. oh well..maybe by winter?

Supposedly Comcast will be in testing in a few markets in the August/September timeframe and will then be rolling out to other markets over the next six months.

So some folks might get it by this fall and others might not get it till next year.

eh, we've heard the testing rumors for close to a year now though, no? I'm certainly not holding my breath.

Inflation from 2004 to 2006 (sorry don't have the latest figure) $9.95 in 2004 would be $10.63.That's the rate of inflation for eggs. :rolleyes:

In bad times, luxury items (like DVRs) trail the prevailing rate of inflation. In good times, luxury items exceed the prevailing rate of inflation.

Read nextoo's message right above yours.

When the boxes came out there was demand so high there were waiting lists and only one box allowed per customer.And the product was horribly underpriced.

I'd go Tivo right now but there's a strong possibility I'm moving out of state next year and would switch to DirecTV to still be able to watch my local sports teams so that's not a very good investment.Which is another reason why the price increase is rational.

You make a good point on how to pay for the CCs, but it just pisses me off when I get a letter in the mail saying that my (2) DVRs that've never worked right for the past two years are going to cost me 30% more.And I don't think anyone is suggesting that you shouldn't be disappointed. By the same token, I'm sure you would rather be informed of the price increase in advance, rather than just finding out about it when you see the higher bill.

I must rent a box to get anything more than the basic network feeds. I must rent a box to get any content via satellite. And you can choose from which of these suppliers you rent a box from. If there was a strong enough profit in offering service without renting boxes, then you can be sure it would be offered. The only mandate to get around that is the requirement for separable security, which is only being imposed on cable services -- blame the FCC for unfairly exempting satellite.

Wow, thanks for chiming in with the pro-cableco talking points. :(The fact that the support one side of the issue doesn't make his points any less valid.

Perhaps OCAP will motivate more CE companies to enter the market. But with OCAP it is my understanding it is the cableco guide that is served to the CE device.

Regardless, I still don't feel July 2007 will have any real impact on new CE cable card driven devices.

OCAP is not related to security per se. OpenCable Application Platform is more for running Apps on the box like the Iguide software, Microsoft's passport software or even the coming Tivo software for Comcast box.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCable_Application_Platform

The software based security is DCAS. It does look like it works with OCAP but is an additional thing requiring extra hardware beyond what OCAP has on it's own. It's not clear if that means having to use the Cable Co's guide or if the CE mfg could implement their own guide how ever they wanted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System

I think competition the STB market is a good thing and not something the cable co's would allow on their own but it remains to be seen if the attempts by the government to create competition will actually work. Currently the cable co's seem to be doing enough to comply with the letter of the law but still leaving cable cards at disadvantage with no On-demand, Switch digital video etc and are still poorly supported. They have implemented the 2 way communication for their cable card using boxes but there is not a single standard for the 2 way communication so it's hard for someone like Tivo to implement those feature on their boxes.

That's the rate of inflation for eggs. :rolleyes:


It was actually just using the inflation rate for retail items, not produce or dairy which have their own metrics.


And the product was horribly underpriced.


Do you have concrete data or is this an opinion?


Which is another reason why the price increase is rational.

Because I may move out of state and be forced to go to D*, then them raising the rates $3 a month is rational? How did you figure that?

Have you ever had a negative opinion on ANYTHING related to Comcast? I really don't have many issues with Comcast, they're a bit expensive but the service is good, outside of the DVR. The thing is a piece of crap and I can't believe its gone on this long without being fixed.

Until last week when the TivoHD came out there really weren't any other realistic options for HD Recording. The S3 was not a viable option for most people due to the $799 price tag and many of us don't even have the option to get D* or E* and only have one cable provider available in our area.

Have you ever had a negative opinion on ANYTHING related to Comcast? I really don't have many issues with Comcast, they're a bit expensive but the service is good, outside of the DVR. The thing is a piece of crap and I can't believe its gone on this long without being fixed.

Until last week when the TivoHD came out there really weren't any other realistic options for HD Recording. The S3 was not a viable option for most people due to the $799 price tag and many of us don't even have the option to get D* or E* and only have one cable provider available in our area.Couldn't have said it better myself. Comcast jacks the DVR fees while delivering nothing extra of value to the customer, because their DVR is still a POS. Oops, forgot about that whopping 40GB of extra HD recording space (6 more hours!!) that you get with the 3416. :rolleyes:

It's just a pure 'let's jack the price until we see people switch to Tivo' move, nothing more. Just the kind of move that bicker loves to see, except he calls it 'demand'. :rolleyes:

Good thing Tivo is finally getting a clue on what to do to compete for HD, but is it too late?

TiVo is not a MSO, so it has a different set of goals when it comes to the DVR service it offers.

They are not the same, and should not be used to compare services.

You make a good point on how to pay for the CCs, but it just pisses me off when I get a letter in the mail saying that my (2) DVRs that've never worked right for the past two years are going to cost me 30% more.Believe me, it does me too. I just prefer to place the blame where I think it belongs and in many case that is not the cableco itself. Of course, the average consumer doesn't know who is to blame, all they see if the bill. :)

Sure, CableCARDs have been around for a while, along with the cableco's kicking, screaming and railing against them. All of that bitching muddied the waters, clouded the future and lead the CE manufacturers to wonder whether building CableCARD-equipped devices was a feasible venture. The CE guys are going to spend corporate R&D dollars on a device who's existence is predicated upon a key technology which may or may not be around next year. If they did choose to build a CableCARD device, it was treated as a novelty, and not as a core feature of a product line.

That changed with the FCC's insistence on the July 2007 deadline that the cableco's eat their own dog food (CableCARD). That gave the CE guys the certainty they needed to start to develop competitive products using CableCARDs (be it TiVo, Vista-powered PCs, or what have you). And since these products were not side-shows, but the main attraction, quantities of scale brought the prices of these devices down to reasonable levels.

Prior to July 2007, the market was "open" but not level, by any stretch of the imagination. You had the cableco boxes with an inherent advantage, with integrated security and the cost reductions you gain by not having to incorporate the seperate security the CE guys had to build into the boxes to make them compatible. Now that all manufacturers are tied to the same standard, the playing field has been leveled.

As for the lack of competitive CE products, let's give the TiVoHD a while to establish itself before you start calling that race...You are right, but only to a point IMHO. We can argue all day long about cable's reluctance to embrace cablecards, but the bottomline is that if DCAS doesn't become a reality in the next year or 2 (or ever), then, and only then, will the FCC have been right. If DCAS comes in 2009 with DTV, then the FCC was dead wrong and all that cablecard stuff has been a big waste of time and money.

You can't reasonably argue that cablecards have not resulted in increased costs. However, I can argue that cablecards had very little to do with Tivo's decision ot make the S3 and S3Lite. They needed cable in order to survive and they decided to use the technology that has been available for quite some time. They could have built the S3 several years ago, but it wasn't until DirecTV went in another direction that Tivo finally decided to woo cable.

I know we differ on Tivo as a company and it's relationship with cable over the years, so be it. I will continue to blame Tivo for their greed and short-sightedness. You will continue to think cable has been and always will be the bad guy. :)

I think competition the STB market is a good thing and not something the cable co's would allow on their own but it remains to be seen if the attempts by the government to create competition will actually work. Currently the cable co's seem to be doing enough to comply with the letter of the law but still leaving cable cards at disadvantage with no On-demand, Switch digital video etc and are still poorly supported. They have implemented the 2 way communication for their cable card using boxes but there is not a single standard for the 2 way communication so it's hard for someone like Tivo to implement those feature on their boxes.And WHY do you blame the cableco? They don't make the DVR. They don't make the Cablecard. And, they don't write the software code that makes it all work. They also didn't design the stupid things so they have to be sent back to be reset before they can be reused in another unit. They didn't set the price for the darned things either.

If these things were properly designed, like you and some others believe, we'd be able to buy an S3Lite, run to the cable store, pick up 2 cablecards, run home, plug them in, make a phone call with serial numbers, etc., and we'd be in business. The fact that even cable techs have trouble and Tivo has had to set up a separate section to deal with cablecard issue tells me they are not yet ready for primetime and probably won't be long after DCAS becomes a reality.

Of course, I suspect you'll blame the cableco, and if that's the case, my response to that would be, good for them. It's a stupid kludge that is wasting my money and I'd prefer to let technology run the show vs the bozos at the FCC. I just don't share the belief that the cableco's are deliberatley handicapping the cablecard. Almost all S3Lite subs would have switched to satellite, so it's in cable's best interest to satisfy them and I believe cableco's are pulling their hair out as much as anyone over all this, with the exception of Tivo maybe. As Paul knows, I don't have much sympathy for them because I believe they could have gotten in bed with cable a long time ago. Instead, they chose to go with the new technology on the block, satellite, who has now all but turned their back on them.

I really don't have many issues with Comcast, they're a bit expensive but the service is good, outside of the DVR. The thing is a piece of crap and I can't believe its gone on this long without being fixed.


Cue the "but you just don't understand how hard it is to engineer this software" nonsense... :rolleyes:

You're right, some of the issues/bugs of this thing are inexcusable. The geeks masquerading as software engineers need to be shown the door. It is painfully obvious that none of these morons actually use the product, otherwise it'd get fixed. :mad:

Cue the "but you just don't understand how hard it is to engineer this software" nonsense... :rolleyes:

You're right, some of the issues/bugs of this thing are inexcusable. The geeks masquerading as software engineers need to be shown the door. It is painfully obvious that none of these morons actually use the product, otherwise it'd get fixed. :mad:Generally I'd agree with you, but I have to wonder, if Tivo represents the best of the best and this stuff is so easy, just why is it taking THEM so long?

...so long for what? I see very few S3 owers going back to a Motorola.

...so long for what? I see very few S3 owers going back to a Motorola.For the topic of this thread, to port their software over to the Comcast DVR. If it's all so easy, one would think it would have only taken a couple of months to do the port. After all, they'd been in business for several years and certainly know their software inside and out. But, there's the rub. It isn't as easy as you all think. And, things may really get interesting when they move on to SA hardware, then to Cox, etc.

But, in any event, with a little luck, this thread may be able to get back on topic shortly, time will tell.

I was referring to the Craporola DVR. But yeah, it's ridiculous that the Tivo port has taken so long, but they have far more issues to deal with than the Moto box. As I said, it is painfully obvious that the morons "developing" the software for that box do not actually use the damn thing. If they did, we wouldn't have such silly and buggy software. As for Tivo's excuses, they might be able to afford delays to get it right, as they had the TivoHD box that they were developing and the Moto box is so poor that there can be no doubt that most will quickly port the software ASAFP.

It was actually just using the inflation rate for retail items, not produce or dairy which have their own metrics. You knew what I meant.

Do you have concrete data or is this an opinion?Opinion.

Because I may move out of state and be forced to go to D*, then them raising the rates $3 a month is rational? How did you figure that?It raises the value to you of having a no-up-front-cost option.

Have you ever had a negative opinion on ANYTHING related to Comcast?Yes. They oppose the Massachusetts Cable Choice and Competition Act which I support.

Until last week when the TivoHD came out there really weren't any other realistic options for HD Recording. The S3 was not a viable option for most people due to the $799 price tagI paid $406 for my S3 a few months ago.

Good thing Tivo is finally getting a clue on what to do to compete for HD, but is it too late?

Near as I can tell, Tivo has not enabled the external hard drive on the HD, which means it's no better than the 3416 in terms of storage?

Cue the "but you just don't understand how hard it is to engineer this software" nonsense... :rolleyes:

You're right, some of the issues/bugs of this thing are inexcusable. The geeks masquerading as software engineers need to be shown the door. It is painfully obvious that none of these morons actually use the product, otherwise it'd get fixed. :mad:

I'll come this close : You just don't understand how hard it is to engineer software in general. :)

Seriously, as a long-time embedded software engineer, I can tell you that the intricacies of soft real-time programming are hard enough to deal with when you completely "own" the platform (as in the TiVo S3), never mind having to go through some half-ass API drawn up by some consortium that completely abstracts you away from the hardware (as in the ComcasTiVo w/ pseudo-OCAP).

TiVo had long been the "owner" of it's platform, from the S1 all the way to the S3 (although I'm not 100% sure about the DirecTiVo). It's a LOT easier to drive a platform when you can twiddle the bits yourself. It allows you to control every facet of operation, which is more work, but usually ends up in a better overall solution.

Going to the pseudo-OCAP platform presents a dual challenge for TiVo. First, porting their code from a presumably C or C++ code base to one that, at a minimum interact with a Java engine, or in the worst case run as part of said Java engine. The other difficulty is trying to keep things flowing nice and neat when you don't have total control over the platform, because you're required to interact with it via some hardware abstraction layer or series of APIs. Especially in the case of a piece of software which needs to respond to human input as quickly as a DVR needs to.

That being said, I find fault with both the "developers" (and I use that term loosely) at SA and Motorola for delivering such shaky and poorly designed and implemented software, as well as the clowns at the cableco's who can barely roll out an incremental release without having it blowing up all over the place, never mind a wholesale revamp of the system software. It's a double-dip of incompetence that leads to the lack of progress in cableco DVR software. The "developers" delivery such a shaky platform that the cableco's are afraid to touch it, which leaves it well behind the curve of other platforms (read:TiVo).

As I said, it is painfully obvious that the morons "developing" the software for that box do not actually use the damn thing. If they did, we wouldn't have such silly and buggy software.This subject has been beaten to death and I'm no closer to knowing exactly why the software is so lame. Let's not forget that cableco's are noted for being stingy, but I don't think that explains things enough. I used to think many of the problems were because they are trying to deal with so many cableco's with different hardware/software, but I'm not so sure anymore. They've now had years to learn and although later software is better, it's still limited and there are still more people having problems than there should be. If this stuff were sold at retail instead of leased through cableco's, you'd better believe they'd work much better. I think cableco's are pinning all their hopes on OCAPto standardize things between cableco's and the software should become much easier to design and maintain.

Near as I can tell, Tivo has not enabled the external hard drive on the HD, which means it's no better than the 3416 in terms of storage?

If you're willing to upgrade your onboard storage you can have as much as you want.

Generally I'd agree with you, but I have to wonder, if Tivo represents the best of the best and this stuff is so easy, just why is it taking THEM so long?

Well, I know in a previous post you mentioned how Comcast wasn't responsible for or had control over a lot of things, but one thing I'm sure they have control over is when and how their equipment and the software that controls it is released. I'm not saying that TiVo isn't having issues with the Motorola boxes, but even if TiVo was ready, those boxes aren't going out until Comcast give the green light. And as the owner of the company, they have that right.

This subject has been beaten to death and I'm no closer to knowing exactly why the software is so lame.

It's easy to figure out, there has been no reason for them to care. Aside from support costs, its not like anyone is canceling. Unfortunately, DVR is one of those things that is very difficult to get rid of once you have it. I'd drop my cell phone and go back to a landline before I got rid of DVR service at this point.

At this point, with the Moto DVR, I'd just be happy if they could get rid of the remote queueing issue and never updated the software again. Most of the time they won't even acknowledge the issue. I've called Comcast 10-15 times over the last couple years about the remote queueing and box freezing and its always:

"There's no issue with the Motorola DVRs, they all work perfectly."
"Everyone I know that has a DVR, which is about 15 people all have the same issue where remote commands will get queued up on the box and the box will freeze from 15 seconds - 2 minutes with the remote indicator light lit."
"Well I've never heard of it and its not in our support database. Can we have a tech come out and check your signal strength?"
"They've already been out and tested it and it was fine. The tech said it was an issue with a lot of Motorola boxes and the firmware version."
"If it was an issue we'd have a note about it in our systems. Is there anything else we can help you with?"

I understand its not the CSRs fault, but this is a huge wide-spread issue and they can even give their reps any info to deal with it. However if they did that, what would the CSR say? "Well we know thats an issue but we dont plan on ever fixing it."

I had stopped being upset about the thing not working until they planned to raise the fees. Between Motorola and Comcast there's a total company worth of about $115 billion and they can't find anyone in the last two years to fix an issue like this? I have a programming background and have worked as a programmer and can understand how difficult something like this is to fix, but this going on for two full years (at least) and them not being able to fix it or even acknowledge it is absurd.

The primary issues that pushed me into replacing the Moto DVR with the new Tivo HD are these;

Remote commands not responding, getting queued up and jumping all over the place (sometimes spoiling things in a show etc).

Not taping because "out of space" when only 20% of the capacity is in use.

Taping repeats over and over and over again because of bad guide data (Tivo has a way around this)

Occassional reboots.

Limited storage space.


I really swore I would never spend "real money" on a DVR again when renting them is so economical. However, now that Comcast has raised their rates I can somewhat justify the premium cost of the TiVo unit.

$218 for the Tivo HD + 299 3-years service + $0 charge for Multistream Cablecard + possible $7 a month "digital upcharge" for that outlet (I'm fighting that one) works out to about $21 a month over 3 years. The comcast box is $12 a month. So is it worth a $9 a month premium for a better DVR experience? I guess for me it is. If I can get rid of the $7 a month bologna charge then it will only cost me $2 a month extra over 3 years to run the Tivo HD vs. the Comcast box.

Tivo HD for $218? Seriously? WHERE?

Tivo HD for $218? Seriously? WHERE?

No longer available unfortunately. Circuit City lowered the online purchase price to $258 for one day and there was a $40 coupon that could be used in store (at the manager's discretion) which would bring it to this price (which I believe is below Circuit's cost for the item).

I was one of the lucky ones who got it at this price, although it might be going back if I can't get Comcast to show up and install my cable cards.

jmpage2 says that the storage capacity of the Moto 3416 (Comcast) can be upgraded:
If you're willing to upgrade your onboard storage you can have as much as you want.
I thought it could not be upgraded because of software limitations, i.e. that if you replace the 160GB Drive with a larger one, it would work, but only 160 GB of it would function.

jmpage2 says that the storage capacity of the Moto 3416 (Comcast) can be upgraded:
If you're willing to upgrade your onboard storage you can have as much as you want.
I thought it could not be upgraded because of software limitations, i.e. that if you replace the 160GB Drive with a larger one, it would work, but only 160 GB of it would function.

I was responding to someone who said that the Tivo didn't have any more storage than the Moto box.

What I was saying (and should be obvious) is that you can upgrade the storage on the TIVO as much as you want.

Sheesh.

O.K. JMPage2 is correct.

I'm in Boston. It's August. Where's my Comcast Tivo download? Yes, I know we have a few weeks of August left, but someone must know something!
It's hard to believe that no one on this forum has an inside track at Comcast or Tivo.

Seriously, as a long-time embedded software engineer, I can tell you that the intricacies of soft real-time programming are hard enough to deal with when you completely "own" the platform (as in the TiVo S3), never mind having to go through some half-ass API drawn up by some consortium that completely abstracts you away from the hardware (as in the ComcasTiVo w/ pseudo-OCAP).
As a fellow software engineer, I thank you for a refreshingly contributory post. On the other hand, as a software engineer, it doesn't make it any more excusable, or any less frustrating, to have bugs of such severity go unresolved for so long.

As a fellow software engineer, I thank you for a refreshingly contributory post. On the other hand, as a software engineer, it doesn't make it any more excusable, or any less frustrating, to have bugs of such severity go unresolved for so long.

That's what makes it all the more frustrating, is that Motorola/SA OWN the whole platform, soup to nuts, and they still can't get the damn thing to run properly. That doesn't bode well for TiVo, IMHO, in that they'll have even less control over the device and still be expected to make it run properly.

For these problems to exist for such an extended period of time can only lead to a few conclusions about the Motorola/SA code monkeys : lack of interest or lack of ability. Neither one inspires confidence about the quality of the product.

O.K. JMPage2 is correct.

I'm in Boston. It's August. Where's my Comcast Tivo download? Yes, I know we have a few weeks of August left, but someone must know something!
It's hard to believe that no one on this forum has an inside track at Comcast or Tivo.

Perhaps there are folks who do have an inside track, or are even using the new code as we speak, but are bound by NDA to not speak of such things.

That's what makes it all the more frustrating, is that Motorola/SA OWN the whole platform, soup to nuts, and they still can't get the damn thing to run properly. That doesn't bode well for TiVo, IMHO, in that they'll have even less control over the device and still be expected to make it run properly.

For these problems to exist for such an extended period of time can only lead to a few conclusions about the Motorola/SA code monkeys : lack of interest or lack of ability. Neither one inspires confidence about the quality of the product.

I fully expect slow/buggy behavior from the Tivo running on the Moto box. At least initially.

If it wasn't buggy/slow to begin with they'd probably have released it already.

Perhaps there are folks who do have an inside track, or are even using the new code as we speak, but are bound by NDA to not speak of such things.

Comcast CSRs/techs I have spoken to have indicated that it's not even available for them internally yet. Very small test market right now for these devices. Remember that they've been 'in test' now for months with them.

I am currently a Directv customer, but not for long now that they won't support my Directivo. I just got off the phone with several Comcast techs/reps and the ones that knew anything about it said there was no ETA.

For these problems to exist for such an extended period of time can only lead to a few conclusions about the Motorola/SA code monkeys : lack of interest or lack of ability. Neither one inspires confidence about the quality of the product.
Not to rule those out, but I assumed it was more lack of resources and support. I would imagine those involved in actually implementing one of these products would love to dive in and get everything ironed out, but getting the time from the correct engineers approved and funded by management is something entirely different. The people that could really get it done have probably moved on to their third project since the DCT series. I just know that if Motorola's STB division were local, I would have applied for a job there long ago.

I would imagine it doesn't make business sense for Moto to commit its best resources to supporting a box that someone, somewhere inside Moto or the cable industry, that doesn't understand the value proposition of the cable DVR, decided is "good enough". In the eyes of a cable exec, I would imagine they have inflated the importance of product cadence over product quality. In the eyes of anyone who doesn't fundamentally understand the technology, getting a 'new' cable box with some regularity will always win out over keeping an older one that's been tried and tested. Unfortunately, we that recognize something is even wrong with our DVRs, or that we should expect better, are in the minority.

I haven't gotten my hands on a new DCH box yet, but I'm hoping there are similarities enough to the DCT series that some of the bugs would have been resolved from the DCT codebase, while there are differences enough to commit a serious project team to creating a new, quality product.

I haven't gotten my hands on a new DCH box yet, but I'm hoping there are similarities enough to the DCT series that some of the bugs would have been resolved from the DCT codebase, while there are differences enough to commit a serious project team to creating a new, quality product.


The DCH-XX16 is the DCT-6416 / 3416 phase 4 model without the built in security. all in a new case and display.


very few changes from the DCT 3416/6416 phase 2 / phase 3, does use new firmware series 17 / 18 depending on MSO.

The new headends are setup at most major headend cable plants for the Deluxe DVR service (Comcast TiVo), however, no software has been installed yet.


When it does come available, the customer will still need to call and have there DVR service upgraded by the CSR. It will be an additional monthly charge.

The new headends are setup at most major headend cable plants for the Deluxe DVR service (Comcast TiVo), however, no software has been installed yet.


When it does come available, the customer will still need to call and have there DVR service upgraded by the CSR. It will be an additional monthly charge.

So what's the time frame? You had pretty strongly indicated last summer that we should see the rollout by Q4 of 2006 and here we are almost nine months past that time frame.

Any idea of how much of an extra charge the Tivo service is going to be? $5 a month or $10 will probably be a big factor for some people in deciding on going with the Tivo service from Comcast or buying a box from Tivo.

The First version of the software failed trials, so they started over. Comcast has accepted this version, with a few changes.

All this has caused the various pushbacks on a rollout.


as for price, the service has yet to be added to the POS or assigned a price code.


My info now comes seconhand as I no longer work for Comcast. :)

The First version of the software failed trials, so they started over. Comcast has accepted this version, with a few changes.

All this has caused the various pushbacks on a rollout.


as for price, the service has yet to be added to the POS or assigned a price code.


My info now comes seconhand as I no longer work for Comcast. :)
We appreciate all your info, however it comes.

Well, I know in a previous post you mentioned how Comcast wasn't responsible for or had control over a lot of things, but one thing I'm sure they have control over is when and how their equipment and the software that controls it is released. I'm not saying that TiVo isn't having issues with the Motorola boxes, but even if TiVo was ready, those boxes aren't going out until Comcast give the green light. And as the owner of the company, they have that right.And you really think that Tivo would be silent if Comcast were stonewalling the release of their port? Tivo's life depends on the succes of this and other ports, and their new S3Lite. I think they'd be throwing stones if what you believe were the case. It's in both their interests to get this stuff out and working. There may have been a time when cableco's could afford to be stubborn, but that time has passed. They have lost a large number of subs, though that is easing, and there are affordable of options out there now and more on the way. IMHO, cable's only Ace In The Hole now is bundling internet and phone service.

For these problems to exist for such an extended period of time can only lead to a few conclusions about the Motorola/SA code monkeys : lack of interest or lack of ability. Neither one inspires confidence about the quality of the product.I'd love to lock you in a room with those folks and view the mayhem through a 2-way mirror. :)

I know we disagree on this point, but only because I have no idea specifically what they are up against. In my little programming world, I can make statements such as yours because I know the in's and out's. However, I don't feel qualified to comment that negatively and personally when I'd don't work there or know what's going on. As a former programmer, I too don't understand why all the problems, but as a former programmer who has dealt with many outsiders that just didn't understand what was involved in trying to meet their requirements, I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also see that Tivo has taken over a year to port their "perfect" software and there is no way I can believe it should have taken that long. But, I refrain from calling their abilities into question. I'm sure they've had to overcome all kinds of obstacles. However, the one obstacle THEY haven't had to deal with is patents and copyrights. :)

And you really think that Tivo would be silent if Comcast were stonewalling the release of their port? Tivo's life depends on the succes of this and other ports, and their new S3Lite. I think they'd be throwing stones if what you believe were the case. It's in both their interests to get this stuff out and working.

I believe there's a quote by the TiVo CEO that their future is tied to cable. If that's their approach, would it be in their best interest to squawk?

Anyway, I saw scanpa's post about the first version of the software being scrubbed so it's obvious that there were issues. I just don't know for sure if the delay is all about that.

There may have been a time when cableco's could afford to be stubborn, but that time has passed.

A leopard doesn't change it's spots overnight and it seems there's hardly a day that goes by I don't see the cable industry griping about something as I cruise the 'net.

I'd love to lock you in a room with those folks and view the mayhem through a 2-way mirror. :)

It wouldn't be pretty. That's all I can say... :)

I know we disagree on this point, but only because I have no idea specifically what they are up against. In my little programming world, I can make statements such as yours because I know the in's and out's. However, I don't feel qualified to comment that negatively and personally when I'd don't work there or know what's going on. As a former programmer, I too don't understand why all the problems, but as a former programmer who has dealt with many outsiders that just didn't understand what was involved in trying to meet their requirements, I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Being in a "little programming world", and being an soft real-time embedded systems software engineer are two entirely different things. Embedded systems bring a whole other level of constraint and complexity that generic programming simply don't bring to the table. Since I've worked in PRECISELY this field of work for a long time now, I feel eminently qualified to comment on this topic. Having said that, I'll reiterate my previous assertion : they either suck or they don't care. There's no other explanation for it.

I also see that Tivo has taken over a year to port their "perfect" software and there is no way I can believe it should have taken that long. But, I refrain from calling their abilities into question. I'm sure they've had to overcome all kinds of obstacles. However, the one obstacle THEY haven't had to deal with is patents and copyrights. :)

Now you're showing your lack of expertise in this field. First of all, no programmer would EVER say that their software is perfect. There's no such thing. No matter how hard you try, there will always be bugs in the system. It's unavoidable.

Also take into consideration exactly what's going on with this porting effort. TiVo's been asked to port their software from a Linux-based environment that they completely own, to a Java-ish style environment. Not trivial, by any stretch of the imagination. It's entirely likely that they've hit some roadbumps of their own doing along the way. It happens.

What is not under TiVo's control is the environment they've been asked to port their code to.

One facet is an apparently shaky hardware platform which the TiVo guys can do nothing about, no matter how good they are. The best they can hope to do is work around any hardware problems in software, since Motorola isn't about to change the hardware specs at this point in time.

The other facet is this pseudo-OCAP API layer that's been foisted upon them. It's also very likely that they've encountered some problems with this stuff, since to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time this code is being put to the test in a real-world environment. So, any problems encountered as a result of working with this virginal code base can either be fixed by the OCAP weenies, or worked around by the TiVo guys (if it's not a critical component).

To attempt to shortcut the discussion on why the ComcasTiVo software roll-out is late by laying the blame at the feet of the TiVo engineers shows an astounding lack of knowledge of the engineering process, or a disingenuous agenda.

To attempt to shortcut the discussion on why the ComcasTiVo software roll-out is late by laying the blame at the feet of the TiVo engineers shows an astounding lack of knowledge of the engineering process, or a disingenuous agenda.Unlike you always laying blame on cable and making personal attacks on programmers you don't even know, I am simply pointing out that even the well-respected Tivo programmers are having problems. That tells me the environment is not an easy one to navigate. In no way did I lay any blame whatsoever on Tivo programmers themselves, nor would I try to lay blame on any programmer without knowing what they are up against. However, once again, you show your mean streak by attacking other's programming experience as being less than yours, therefore making you the only one "qualified" to comment.

My programming experience may not be as involved as yours, but it still gives me enough insight to know that what others presume to be a simple task is oftentimes much more difficult than it appears. To read anything else into any of my comments is simply an agenda all to itself, and one to which I once again will no longer respond. It's simply amazing how you turn every discussion into a personal vendetta.

Unlike you always laying blame on cable and making personal attacks on programmers you don't even know, I am simply pointing out that even the well-respected Tivo programmers are having problems. That tells me the environment is not an easy one to navigate. In no way did I lay any blame whatsoever on Tivo programmers themselves, nor would I try to lay blame on any programmer without knowing what they are up against. However, once again, you show your mean streak by attacking other's programming experience as being less than yours, therefore making you the only one "qualified" to comment.

My programming experience may not be as involved as yours, but it still gives me enough insight to know that what others presume to be a simple task is oftentimes much more difficult than it appears. To read anything else into any of my comments is simply an agenda all to itself, and one to which I once again will no longer respond. It's simply amazing how you turn every discussion into a personal vendetta.

Whatever, Dave. However, it's quite apparent that your "programming experience" doesn't give you enough insight into the problem at hand. Otherwise, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements in the first place.

If you even bothered to read my post, you'd see that I carefully laid out a premise that pitfalls lay in all aspects of this project, from the hardware, to the API, to the TiVo port itself. The only places where the Moto/SA guys can be completely faulted for crappy code is in the SARA/iGuide codebases, where they run the show.

Next time, try to post something relevant, rather than another one of your "lets all hold hands and sing Koombaya" whines.

Anyone else? Anyone? Bueller?

As a matter of fact, there is something to add.

I called Comcast on Monday lst week, I believe, and asked about the timeline for the TiVo rollout. The girl on the phone indicated to me that there wouldn't be a software push available, and that rollout would include my area, Somerville, MA, in the November timeframe. Add salt to taste.

As a matter of fact, there is something to add.

I called Comcast on Monday lst week, I believe, and asked about the timeline for the TiVo rollout. The girl on the phone indicated to me that there wouldn't be a software push available, and that rollout would include my area, Somerville, MA, in the November timeframe. Add salt to taste.

Meaning that it would not be a download, but you could exchange your DVR?

Meaning that it would not be a download, but you could exchange your DVR?


It's a download they aren't replaceing the boxes. The tech was mistaken.



http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/tivo-on-comcast-how-it-works-228822.php

ajwees41

The only reason we have DirecTV is because my wife and kids are totally hooked on DirecTiVo. I hate DirecTV's HD image quality. Comcasts's is better. So I use the Moto HD PVR we have. This expensive dual provider scheme has been going on for over 3 years. The plan, for a long time now, has been to bag the DirecTV as soon as the Comcat TiVo enabled box arrives. My wife agreed to it. So much for plans.

Have you considered the new HDTiVo? Even at $299, it might be a net gain if you can drop DirecTV from your monthly bill.

I gave up waiting last week. Bought the tivo HD (299.00). Cable cards are being installed this week.

Whenever the Comcast TIVO option is available, we all know it will not live up to the hype, be buggy, and not offer all of the Tivo 'gravy' services. To boot, it will cost 5-6 dollars more/month.

In the long run, the cost will be similar.

It is important to note that prior to getting cables cards installed, the Tivo is in ANALOG mode only. The picture quality is TERRIBLE. The local Comcast desk guy tells me that once the cards are active, it will go full digital and the picture quality will be identical to the 3416 I had. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere.

I gave up waiting last week. Bought the tivo HD (299.00). Cable cards are being installed this week.

Whenever the Comcast TIVO option is available, we all know it will not live up to the hype, be buggy, and not offer all of the Tivo 'gravy' services. To boot, it will cost 5-6 dollars more/month.

In the long run, the cost will be similar.

It is important to note that prior to getting cables cards installed, the Tivo is in ANALOG mode only. The picture quality is TERRIBLE. The local Comcast desk guy tells me that once the cards are active, it will go full digital and the picture quality will be identical to the 3416 I had. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere.

You're talking about with the cable plugged in right? Because, IIRC, the TivoHD has the ability to pull in OTA HD if you plug in an antenna.

correct.

I gave up waiting last week. Bought the tivo HD (299.00). Cable cards are being installed this week.

You might wanna check out these threads, apparently there have been significant picture quality problems with the Tivo HD -

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361000

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361244

I gave up waiting last week. Bought the tivo HD (299.00). Cable cards are being installed this week.

Whenever the Comcast TIVO option is available, we all know it will not live up to the hype, be buggy, and not offer all of the Tivo 'gravy' services. To boot, it will cost 5-6 dollars more/month.

In the long run, the cost will be similar.

It is important to note that prior to getting cables cards installed, the Tivo is in ANALOG mode only. The picture quality is TERRIBLE. The local Comcast desk guy tells me that once the cards are active, it will go full digital and the picture quality will be identical to the 3416 I had. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere.

Yes, assuming you're on a simulcast system that has digital and analog versions of all the channels available.

Quality on my Tivo HD is about comparable to the Moto 3416 it replaces. Additionally with the Tivo HD you have three aspect choices for 4:3 content whereas the Moto box always puts it into a "full" screen mode on 16:9 TVs with no option to change it.

Additionally with the Tivo HD you have three aspect choices for 4:3 content whereas the Moto box always puts it into a "full" screen mode on 16:9 TVs with no option to change it.

Not so--you can change the 4:3 override setting in the user settings. The default on the DCH3416 is 480i (with side bars), and I have my TV set to 4:3 expanded.

Not so--you can change the 4:3 override setting in the user settings. The default on the DCH3416 is 480i (with side bars), and I have my TV set to 4:3 expanded.I think he meant that you can't change it on the fly.

The TivoHD lets you swap between 4:3 (sidebars), stretch, and zoom modes with one press on the remote. There's no need to use some setup menu.

I think he meant that you can't change it on the fly.

The TivoHD lets you swap between 4:3 (sidebars), stretch, and zoom modes with one press on the remote. There's no need to use some setup menu.

Ya, sorry that's what I meant. Going into the Comcast box and doing it is a pain as you can only access that setup screen by turning the unit off, changing it, turning it back on, etc.

With Tivo you can change the aspect on the fly, which is nice if you find that some shows need an immediate aspect change (I frequently go to pillar box mode if watching sports or news, etc).

I heard that Comcasts TiVo rollout had been delayed indefinitely and will likely not happen until 2008!. Total bummer, but just conifirmation of what we have already been suffering through. Comcast totally sucks.

I am glad that my neighborhood is being wired for Fios. As soon as it is complete, I will be using a S3 on Fios.

I will see if I can find out anything on Monday.

I heard that Comcasts TiVo rollout had been delayed indefinitely and will likely not happen until 2008!. Total bummer, but just conifirmation of what we have already been suffering through. Comcast totally sucks.

I am glad that my neighborhood is being wired for Fios. As soon as it is complete, I will be using a S3 on Fios.

No offense but I'll believe it when L Supreme says a delayed rollout. A few days ago he said BEFORE November and you could download it.

I heard that Comcasts TiVo rollout had been delayed indefinitely and will likely not happen until 2008!. Total bummer, but just conifirmation of what we have already been suffering through. Comcast totally sucks.

I am glad that my neighborhood is being wired for Fios. As soon as it is complete, I will be using a S3 on Fios.

Hmm, funny you say that being some Comcast employees have just started beta testing it recently in the MA area at least.

I heard that Comcasts TiVo rollout had been delayed indefinitely and will likely not happen until 2008!. Total bummer, but just conifirmation of what we have already been suffering through. Comcast totally sucks.

I am glad that my neighborhood is being wired for Fios. As soon as it is complete, I will be using a S3 on Fios.

You're lucky-we're 4 years away from Fios. Plus, I just found out that the NFL network was moved to a pay tier. I knew it was coming but as of last week I still had it. As of Saturday, it's no longer available. Comcrap-always looking for a way to screw the customer.

I gave up waiting last week. Bought the tivo HD (299.00). Cable cards are being installed this week.

It is important to note that prior to getting cables cards installed, the Tivo is in ANALOG mode only. The picture quality is TERRIBLE. The local Comcast desk guy tells me that once the cards are active, it will go full digital and the picture quality will be identical to the 3416 I had. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere.This is true only if you are using the cable connection. The box supports cable and antenna at the same time. The antenna connection can receive digital signals.

I bought my unit thru weaknees because I wanted more storage, and it was cheaper to buy it pre-installed from them than to buy the upgrade kit.

I got my M-card installed by Comcast and it is working fine now. The Comcast people aren't too knowledgeable yet about this box. When I called to order service they insisted on sending out 2 cable-cards, one a M-card and one a single channel card. Then the installer insisted on plugging both in even though I showed him the instructions that came with the Tivo saying it only needed 1 M-card AND the on-screen display saying essentially "look, the M-card is enough and I'm going to ignore the 2nd channel card you put in". Eventually he took it out and then the system worked.

Two problems with the unit: 1) don't try using the antenna or cable strength menus or the box will reboot 2) there are occasional dropouts in the audio watching Dolby Digital broadcasts. I hope these will be fixed by a software download and aren't hardware bugs.

How much is Comca$t charging for the M card?

M-card rental should be free. You might have to pay an outlet fee or "HD programming" charge fee depending on which Comcast market you are in.

No offense but I'll believe it when L Supreme says a delayed rollout. A few days ago he said BEFORE November and you could download it.

Don't worry, it takes a lot more to offend me.

This falls into the category of been there, heard that. None of us will have th TiVo interface until 2008 at this rate. Comcast is truly CRAPTASTIC!

You're lucky-we're 4 years away from Fios. Plus, I just found out that the NFL network was moved to a pay tier. I knew it was coming but as of last week I still had it. As of Saturday, it's no longer available. Comcrap-always looking for a way to screw the customer.

Bend over, here comes Comcrap!

I think they'd be stupid to keep practically giving the NFL network away. People love football, and to not charge fans up the nose for it is un-American.

2) there are occasional dropouts in the audio watching Dolby Digital broadcasts. I hope these will be fixed by a software download and aren't hardware bugs.

This one is quite disturbing. Please keep us updated if you know of a fix. I am strongly considering the TivoHD now that it appears certain that Tivo will NEVER come out on Comca$t.

Word from the Comcast Headend, The high tier DVR service, w/ TiVo DVR software has not been delayed and is still due by end of year for the Central PA region. No New delay's have been reported.

Time to unsubscribe from this thread...S3/HD here I come.

Word from the Comcast Headend, The high tier DVR service, w/ TiVo DVR software has not been delayed and is still due by end of year for the Central PA region. No New delay's have been reported.

Any word on the additonal monthly fee for TiVo?

I think they'd be stupid to keep practically giving the NFL network away. People love football, and to not charge fans up the nose for it is un-American.

You may be right(un american not to charge up the wazoo for football), but many, myself included, will be very disappointed this year when one or more of their favorite teams games will only be on directv satelite that they are not a subscriber of.

Word from the Comcast Headend, The high tier DVR service, w/ TiVo DVR software has not been delayed and is still due by end of year for the Central PA region. No New delay's have been reported.
Scanpa,

If that is the case, then what happened to the roll out in the Boston area that was suppose to happen on the 19th of August ?? Not that it affects me, I'm on the Last Coast, but if that didn't happen I'd be surprised if the roll out happens else where on time. That announcement of the Boston roll out was in several online mags.

Laters,
Mikef5

By the end of the year? So I guess Comcast will be taking orders on Dec 29th ?

I was hoping you'd say September.

By the end of the year? So I guess Comcast will be taking orders on Dec 29th ?

12/29/08 to be exact :(

Well we here in western WA were just downgraded from the Microsoft Enhanced guide to the basic guide the rest of Comcastland evidently has. As craptasic as the MS guide was, it was significantly more advanced then what fired up on my box this morning.

So like formulaben, I'm picking up a Tivo HD.

You may be right(un american not to charge up the wazoo for football), but many, myself included, will be very disappointed this year when one or more of their favorite teams games will only be on directv satelite that they are not a subscriber of.Yup, disappointment makes sense, and not uncommon in our commercial environment. I recently priced out a hotel stay, and I was very disappointed with how expensive room rates are.

Is an M-Card different from a Cablecard, because local technicians here have never heard of an M-Card? They told me I could get a Cablecard for my DCH6416 but that it wouldn't be interactive?

no cards are interactive. Singlestream cards (the only cards the techs know about) can only decode one stream so you need two of them to do dual tuner.

M-cards can support up to six stream decryptions, so you only need one of these in a Tivo HD to decrypt for both tuners.

Techs haven't heard about them because;

1. They're not up to date on this stuff.

2. The cards have only been out for a few weeks and aren't available in all areas.

no cards are interactive. Singlestream cards (the only cards the techs know about) can only decode one stream so you need two of them to do dual tuner.

M-cards can support up to six stream decryptions, so you only need one of these in a Tivo HD to decrypt for both tuners.

Techs haven't heard about them because;

1. They're not up to date on this stuff.

2. The cards have only been out for a few weeks and aren't available in all areas.
The first statement "no cards are interactive" is incorrect. Both kinds of cards are two-way devices. See the underlined sections for more information.

http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

CableCARD™ Overview
CableLabs® specifications define the interface between the CableCARD™ removable security module which separates the cable operator's proprietary conditional access system and the host device. Cable operators provide CableCARDs to subscribers. The cards provide secure access to encrypted digital cable programming. This separation of the host receiver from the conditional access function enables portability of retail host devices among cable networks throughout the country. For example, if a consumer purchases a set-top box or an integrated digital TV (DTV) in New York and then relocates to Los Angeles, that set-top box or integrated DTV will be operational on the new regional cable network.

CableCARD 1.0
The early cable removable security cards were called Point-of-Deployment (POD) modules. CableLabs later coined the term CableCARD™ and began describing the removable security devices as CableCARD security modules. The SCTE standards (ANSI/SCTE-28 and ANSI/SCTE-41) still use the term POD module. These are two names for the same thing.

From the very early specifications and draft standards, the CableCARD module has been a two-way device. That is, it included the functionality to enable two-way communication on the cable plant. This two-way communication is necessary for a variety of advanced cable services including video on demand (VOD), switched digital video (SDV), interactive services and applications.

The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices. [NOTE: See footnote 1.] This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.

Multistream CableCARDs
Over the years, technology advanced and CableLabs updated the CableCARD module specifications to create Multistream CableCARDs. Multiple stream processing is required in, for example, PVRs that record and play at the same time, picture-in-picture (PIP), and picture-on-picture PoP) type applications.

The development of the replacement interface specification was originally called the Multistream CableCARD Interface Specification. It updated the security system to support triple-DES (3DES) or FIPS PUB 46-3, added support for up to 6 simultaneous transport streams, and made use of the serialized interface, similar to USB-2.0, to achieve lower host receiver costs and higher data transfer rates. While doing this, the card maintained the original PCMCIA physical interface for backward compatibility.

Before anyone actually implemented this new Multistream CableCARD Interface Specification, it was recognized that it repeated a large portion of the requirements in the original CableCARD 1.0 interface specification. Having two separate specifications with duplicate requirements meant a tough job keeping everything lined up as specification clarifications came in from implementing teams. To resolve this, CableLabs began the process of merging the original (single-stream) CableCARD 1.0 interface specification with the new Multistream card interface specification. This combined specification includes all requirements for both previous specifications and is known as the CableCARD Interface Specification 2.0 or CCIF-2.0. A companion document that combined the requirements of the copy-protection specifications also was developed and is known as the CableCARD Copy Protection Specification 2.0 or CCCP-2.0. It is anticipated that most cable operators will simply migrate to the Multistream CableCARDs for all CableCARD uses. Multistream CableCARDs will work, in a backwards compatible manner, in Hosts that were originally built to the single stream CableCARD standard.

CableCARD 2.0
These new CableCARD-2.0 specifications were issued on March 31, 2005; at the same time the former CCIF 1.0 and Multistream Card (M-Card™) specifications were closed. Along with this update, changes were made to all related OpenCable specifications to require use of the new CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 in all places that previously referenced the former specifications. Beginning June 6, 2005, all CableLabs certifications of OpenCable products have been tied to CableCARD-2.0 (or CCIF-2.0) specifications. As of that date, new Cards and new Hosts have been certified to support the CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 specifications.

CableCARD Terminology
Since CableCARD-2.0 Interface specifications now included all the requirements from both the original (single-stream) CableCARD interface and the new (multi-stream) CableCARD interface, terminology was developed to distinguish between the two different operating modes and product types:

S-CARD: A two-way CableCARD module that follows the original CableCARD 1.0 Interface specification or implements only the single-stream portion of the CableCARD-2.0 Interface specification.


M-Card: A two-way CableCARD module that implements all of the multi-stream functionality as well as the single-stream functionality (for backward compatibility purposes) of the CableCARD-2.0 Interface specification.


S-Mode: The operating mode of the interface when the original parallel transfer function is being used in single-stream mode, which limits the video transfer rate to 40 Mbps in each direction.


M-Mode: The operating mode of the interface when the new serial transfer function is being used, regardless of how many transport streams are actually being delivered, to provide up to 200 Mbps data transfer rate for the video stream in each direction.


S-Host: An OpenCable Host 2.0 device or UDCP that operates exclusively in the S-Mode, regardless of how many tuners are included.


M-Host: An OpenCable Host 2.0 device or UDCP that has implemented the M-Mode variation of the interface, regardless of how many tuners the device includes.

Migration to Multistream Support
There are four types of devices that can be authorized to use the CableCARD module interface. This electronic authorization comes in the form of digital certificates that are embedded within the Host receiving device that accepts a CableCARD module. In order to receive these digital certificates a manufacturer must sign a license and build a product according to certain requirements.

The first type of Host product that can make use of the CableCARD module is the Unidirectional Digital Cable Product (UDCP) or "Digital Cable-Ready Receiver." These products were defined by FCC rules. The license a manufacturer signs for such products is the DFAST license and the requirements are found in the Joint Test Suite Conformance Checklist: PICS Proforma. For more information, please see www.cablelabs.com.

A second type of Host product is an M-UDCP device or a unidirectional receiver that uses an M-Card operating in M-Mode. In other words, a product that supports multiple tuners with a single CableCARD.

The third type of Host product that can use the CableCARD module is the OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR). The OCUR employs DRM technology (e.g., WMDRM and Real Helix), and is used to provide premium digital cable content to certain PCs. The PC itself must meet certain criteria established by the DRM provider, but is not certified separately by CableLabs. OCUR products are defined by CableLabs OpenCable specifications and the manufacturer must sign the CHILA license. The product must follow the requirements defined by the CableLabs OCUR specifications and DRI specifications. Presently these devices are required to support the S-Mode interface, but work is underway to extend their support to allow the M-Mode interface.

The fourth type of Host product that can make use of the CableCARD module is an OpenCable Host 2.0 device. This device is licensed by CableLabs under CHILA and the requirements for this product are found in the Host-CFR-2.0 specification. The main difference between this product and that which is defined by the FCC is the support for two-way functionality. The OpenCable Host 2.0 device specifications include all of the requirements necessary to support two-way cable services (e.g. video-on-demand or switched digital video), while UDCP devices do not. It is important to note that it is the receiver implementation that determines support for two-way services, not the functionality of the CableCARD module. All CableCARD modules are two-way capable.

The two-way OpenCable Host products originally were required to support the S-Mode interface and were exclusively an S-Host. The first two-way OpenCable products certified followed these requirements. Later requirements were changed for OpenCable devices mandating the M-Mode interface as a baseline.

Compatibility and Backward Compatibility of CableCARD Modules and Host Devices
Care was taken in the development of the multistream interface specification to ensure full backward compatibility. This is achieved by specific requirements on both the Host side and the Card side of the interface.

First it was established that the CableCARD module takes responsibility for operating in both modes, depending on the capabilities of the Host. This means that every M-Card is required to be able to operate equally in both the S-Mode and in the M-Mode and to be capable of sensing the capabilities of the Host.

When an M-Card is inserted into an S-Host, the CableCARD module will sense that the Host is designed for the S-Mode and will follow the S-Mode protocol. From the Host perspective, the CableCARD module will look and function like any other S-Card.

If that same M-Card is inserted into an M-Host, the CableCARD module senses that the Host is designed for the M-Mode and follows the M-Mode protocols, using the latest 3DES security and enabling the faster transport speeds capable of supporting multiple tuners.

This backward compatibility provision of the CableCARD module permits cable operators to migrate smoothly to an exclusive inventory of M-Cards that will be used for all products, with no further need to purchase or inventory older S-Cards.

Placing the backward compatibility burdens on the CableCARD modules assists Host manufacturers by freeing them from any obligation to include redundant or unnecessary circuitry while allowing them to take full advantage of the lower cost hardware design of the M-Mode interface.

Two-Way Functionality of CableCARDs and Host Devices
The ability to support two-way and interactive cable services such as VOD and SDV is a responsibility shared between the CableCARD module and the Host. There are circuits and functionalities needed on both sides of the CableCARD module interface to complete the connection and to enable full two-way signaling.

First, it is important to understand how two-way cable communication works at a high level. The two-way communications are broken down into the downstream and upstream directions. The downstream communication path describes the messages that flow from the cable headend to the subscriber device and the upstream communications are those that flow from the subscriber device back (up) to the headend. From the cable headend perspective, downstream = talking, while upstream = listening. From the subscriber equipment perspective, downstream is for listening and upstream is for talking.

All UDPC devices, M-UDCP devices, OpenCable Host devices and CableCARD modules support downstream channels, but only CableCARD modules and OpenCable Host 2.0 devices support upstream channels.

There are three distinct languages (or protocols) that are used on cable systems for the two-way communications: (1) Aloha (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-1 standard, used by Motorola systems); (2) DAVIC (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-2 standard, used by Scientific Atlanta systems); and (3) DSG (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE-106 DOCSIS Set-top Gateway standard, used by a variety of cable systems). All three protocols transmit their upstream signals on channels in the 5 MHz to 42 MHz frequency band. In order for a Host to support two-way services on any cable system, it must be capable of transmitting upstream signals using any of the three protocols. Only products compliant with the OpenCable Host 2.0 specifications include the transmitters capable of supporting all three upstream protocols. Products built to the Plug & Play or Digital Cable Ready (DCR) FCC requirements are unidirectional only, and do not include these transmitters and are unable to support two-way services.

On the other hand, CableCARD modules always were designed to support two-way functionality, including the original CableCARD 1.0 interface specifications. The CableCARD module includes the knowledge of the upstream transmission standards and protocols used by each cable operator and is able to format and prepare messages for that protocol. Those upstream messages are sent to the Host device for transmission (when so equipped). The upstream transmitter also is under the complete control of the CableCARD module to set frequency and output power. CableCARD modules are equipped to recognize the presence of these upstream transmitters in an OpenCable Host device and to use them as necessary. They also are able to detect the absence of this transmitter in a unidirectional Host and to operate in a one-way mode.

1 For example: (1) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; (2) “A CableCard That Hasn't Been Able to Kill the Set-Top Box,” Eric A. Taub, The New York Times, 2006-07-03; (3) CableCARD: A Primer, Nate Anderson , ars technica 2006-02-06; (4) FAQ: CableCard? What's that?, Richard Shim and Jim Hu, CNET (2005-01-05). [back]

2 CS Docket 97-80 Second Report and Order, Adopted: September 10, 2003. [back]

NOTE: For all the hot links, go to the web site.

Hey, wow, fun with cut and paste.

yes, the cablecard is capable of 2-way communication with the host, however, there is nothing possible today that will allow a cable card to initiate 2-way communication for the purpose of Switched Digital Video channel selection, pay per view or on-demand services.

For all intents and purposes the cable card in the Tivo is a one way device.

Hey, wow, fun with cut and paste.

yes, the cablecard is capable of 2-way communication with the host, however, there is nothing possible today that will allow a cable card to initiate 2-way communication for the purpose of Switched Digital Video channel selection, pay per view or on-demand services.

For all intents and purposes the cable card in the Tivo is a one way device.Your second paragraph is incorrect. Both Motorola and Scientific Atlanta have cable card set top boxes that support pay per view and on-demand services. Also, I think Scientific Atlanta cable card set top boxes support Switched Digital Video, but I don't know if Motorola supports Switched Digital Video.

I have read posts that have stated that TiVo did not include the necessary hardware in their DVRs to support 2-way communication and that it did not get a license for 2-way communication so your last sentence is correct if these posts are true.

The Comcast Tivo DVR is supposed to support pay per view and on-demand services. I may not sure if it will support Switched Digital Video. If anyone knows please post.

Your second paragraph is incorrect. Both Motorola and Scientific Atlanta have cable card set top boxes that support pay per view and on-demand services. Also, I think Scientific Atlanta cable card set top boxes support Switched Digital Video, but I don't know if Motorola supports Switched Digital Video.

I have read posts that have stated that TiVo did not include the necessary hardware in their DVRs to support 2-way communication and that it did not get a license for 2-way communication so your last sentence is correct if these posts are true.

The Comcast Tivo DVR is supposed to support pay per view and on-demand services. I may not sure if it will support Switched Digital Video. If anyone knows please post.

The CableCARDs are only capable of handling the cryptological functions for the box (i.e. they decrypt encrypted, copy-protected material). They don't have "directions". CableCARD 1.0 cards (S-Cards) could only decrypt a single stream at a time. CableCARD 2.0 cards (M-Cards) can decrypt up to 6 streams simultaneously.

TiVo was precluded by the licenses available to them from CableLabs from including the necessary hardware components in their boxes to enable bidirectional capabilities. They had no choice. If they wanted to include CableCARDs in their products, they needed to conform to those licenses, which mandate unidirectional function.

The new boxes from Motorola and SA, which contain CableCARDs, do indeed have bidirectional capabilities. They will support PPV, VOD and SDV. See HERE (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-01/the-comcast-motorola-tivo-ces/) for all the details.

Now, I'm not exactly sure of the details concerning why TiVo could only license unidirectional capabilities, while Moto and SA can do bidirectional. If anyone can clear that up, I'd really appreciate it.

Now, I'm not exactly sure of the details concerning why TiVo could only license unidirectional capabilities, while Moto and SA can do bidirectional. If anyone can clear that up, I'd really appreciate it.Only one detail really matters:

The unidirectional license allows the manufacturer to use their own interface. The bidirectional license does not. The bidirectional license requires that the manufacturer support OCAP and use the cable provider's interface.

Think YOU can create better software for the Motorola architecture? Give it your best shot. I found a job opening at the Horsham, PA location.

Here's what Motorola is looking for:

Headend Engineering Sr. Staff Software Engineer

Job ID: PCK295-134193

Job ID: 66796

Department Description: The DVS Headend Software team designs, develops, and tests headend products for use at digital cable TV headends. Technologies include encryption IP networking modulation configuration via SNMP and MPEG message/packet processing. There are three subteams that each work on one or more projects at a time.

# Responsibilities/Expectations: Design, implement and maintain real-time software and firmware used in Digital Headend products.
# Work with Systems Engineering to evaluate, develop, and document new concepts, features, and requirements.
# Assist the hardware team with evaluation and development of hardware for Digital Headend products
# Develop, document, and implement software and firmware designs
# Use Structured and Object-Oriented design methodologies to perform the above tasks.
# Develop Design Verification Test (DVT) plans, perform DVT tests, and document the results
# Support TRC, CPS, SI&T, and other internal groups requiring assistance with Digital Headend products.
# Follow TL9000 (ISO9000+) and MGATES processes

Knowledge Skills:
# BSEE/BSCS or equivalent required, MSEE/MSCS a plus
# 3-5 years experience in real-time/embedded software development
# C and C++ development experience required
# Experience with computer networking and the TCP/IP protocol suite
# Java development experience a plus
# VxWorks and Linux experience is highly desired
# Must have excellent written and verbal communications skills

Basic Qualifications: A 4-year bachelor of science degree (a bachelor of applied science degree will NOT be accepted) in Computer Science, Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering or other job related degree from an accredited college or university, plus a minimum 6 years of engineering experience.
3+ years experience Software Engineering
3+ years experience with C/C++, Real time embedded development

Honestly, those really aren't very hard requirements to meet. I'd never want to do it even though i have have a BS in Computer Science, but I know quite a few people that are qualified for that position.

Those job qualifications are actually less than a Software Engineer II at my company.

Well theres a few different positions available. check it out.

Honestly, those really aren't very hard requirements to meet. I'd never want to do it even though i have have a BS in Computer Science, but I know quite a few people that are qualified for that position.

Those job qualifications are actually less than a Software Engineer II at my company.

My thoughts exactly. There's no way someone with as little as 3 years experience and a BS qualifies to be a senior. Maybe a Senior Happy Meal Technician (tm), but not a Senior Embedded Software Engineer.

How many people out there really have TL9000 background? You can train an engineer to become a better engineer much more readily than you can train an engineer to learn and comply with relevant regulations.

Just completed setting-up my Tivo HD and am now recording HD goodness on two channels at once.

Comcast Redmond now has multistream cable cards (they gave me two, actually) so you only need one of them to enable both channels (so I'll be taking one back). Took about three minutes to activate over the phone with the excellent Comcast agent.

Unit plus service works out to $16 a month over three years. Since I save $10 by sending back my 6412, for $6 more it is so worth it. Even when Comcast eventually gets around to launching their TiVo service in my area (which may be three years considering how late they are with the pilot), it's worth the money now to enjoy television again.

Tivo HD: $250
Tivo sub: $ 16
Not having to read Internet morons pontificate about how hard it is to properly engineer DVR software while you're patiently waiting years for Comcast to roll out their vaporware:
.
.
.
priceless.

Tivo HD: $250
Tivo sub: $ 16
Not having to read Internet morons pontificate about how hard it is to properly engineer DVR software while you're patiently waiting years for Comcast to roll out their vaporware:
.
.
.
priceless.

No doubt. I'm thinking that these latest sets of delays for the ComcasTiVo have brought in even more TiVo subscribers than orginally planned via the TiVoHD. After all, you only give up the VOD and PPV stuff that you'd get with the ComcasTiVo, and get all of the other TiVo features for just a few more bucks a month. That's a trade-off I'd gladly take if I already didn't have a Series3.

http://ibc.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=175784

Looks like SDV support for 3rd party CE cable card devices are coming. Plus this next news from cable labs:

http://cablelabs.com/news/pr/2007/07_pr_dtla_082307.html

sounds like TTG and MRV is also on the way for the HD Tivo's.

Could be a good next year for HD Tivo owners.

The chatter on TCF about that announcement about SDV is that it is just an announcement. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is "coming" -- at least not anytime soon.

After all, you only give up the VOD and PPV stuff that you'd get with the ComcasTiVo, and get all of the other TiVo features for just a few more bucks a month. That's a trade-off I'd gladly take if I already didn't have a Series3.

I tried out the S3 for a month, just returned it. For me, there just wasn't anything compelling enough to bother with it. Then again, I don't do much in the way of series recording.

Ironically, one of the significant advantages of Comcast was its superior FF4 speed, which is now apparently gone with the reversion to iguide. But at least we now have the 30 sec skip...

The chatter on TCF about that announcement about SDV is that it is just an announcement. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is "coming" -- at least not anytime soon.

Uh, you're telling guys here that have been waiting some time for the Comcast-Tivo software (over 2 years since the initial annoncement.) :rolleyes:

http://funfreepages.com/albums/classic/captain_obvious.jpg

The chatter on TCF about that announcement about SDV is that it is just an announcement. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is "coming" -- at least not anytime soon.

Quote from the article:

"The NCTA said cable has worked with individual consumer-electronics makers ' it cited TiVo ' to develop a solution that can provide two-way switched digital video channels to unidirectional digital cable products. This tuning resolver option requires a firmware update and a Universal Serial Bus 2.0 device."

If they create a USB talk back device for a Tivo S3 or HD, what's to stop them from becoming compatable with Video on Demand? I would imagine a Cable operator would like you to have VOD because that means possible increased sales from PPV Movies, or people upgrading to get premium channels because they like what they see on demand. Or even subscription VOD material like Howard TV and others.

I'm still waiting for the Comcast version. Once It's available I'm going to see if I can trade in this 6412 P2 DVR with a DCH-3416 and upgrade it to Tivo. Hopefully it comes out in time for the new fall tv season, but at the rate of these constant delays it looks like that would be a miracle.

No need to trade in a box. The software can be downloaded,and you keep the showes you currently have.

You DO get a new Tivo remote.

Your children will need to trade in a box. The software will eventually be downloaded,and your heirs will keep the shows that you had archived for future use.

Fixed it for ya...:cool:

Good evening,
Has there been an official announcement regarding a delay in the release of the TiVo software rollout in the Boston area? I know we are all waiting but just curious whats happening since August is almost over


Thanks

Tom

No need to trade in a box. The software can be downloaded,and you keep the showes you currently have.

You DO get a new Tivo remote.

Yeah I know, but I have a phase 2 6412 DVR. It's really slow and the rumor is that you need a phase 3 6412 DVR or newer because of the processor speed difference.

Plus I wouldn't mind that extra 40 GB of space and the new case of the DCH would look nice under my TV.

If they create a USB talk back device for a Tivo S3 or HD, what's to stop them from becoming compatable with Video on Demand? I would imagine a Cable operator would like you to have VOD because that means possible increased sales from PPV Movies, or people upgrading to get premium channels because they like what they see on demand. Or even subscription VOD material like Howard TV and others.

I'd think PPV has a lot more components to get right, like confirmation screens and tieing in each transaction to the billing system.

If they create a USB talk back device for a Tivo S3 or HD, what's to stop them from becoming compatable with Video on Demand? I would imagine a Cable operator would like you to have VOD because that means possible increased sales from PPV Movies, or people upgrading to get premium channels because they like what they see on demand. Or even subscription VOD material like Howard TV and others.

If the USB widget does come to be, it would certainly enable the required communications between the set top box and the head end to allow for VOD/PPV. At that point, TiVo would still need to code up some screens to prompt the user with ordering information/confirmation and the like.

So, the widget would remove a large roadblock, but not be the complete solution on it's own.

Good evening,
Has there been an official announcement regarding a delay in the release of the TiVo software rollout in the Boston area? I know we are all waiting but just curious whats happening since August is almost over


Thanks

Tom

None that I have seen yet, Tom. I was "IM-ing" with a Comcast rep to see what the deal is & now I was just told ".....towards the end of the year...." I am ready to go buy the new $300 TiVo HD box, & get my 2 cable cards installed. F Comcast & their box version.

Uh, you're telling guys here that have been waiting some time for the Comcast-Tivo software (over 2 years since the initial annoncement.) :rolleyes:

http://funfreepages.com/albums/classic/captain_obvious.jpg
Just relaying what they're saying elsewhere, bud. No need to get snippy.

Quote from the article:

"The NCTA said cable has worked with individual consumer-electronics makers ' it cited TiVo ' to develop a solution that can provide two-way switched digital video channels to unidirectional digital cable products. This tuning resolver option requires a firmware update and a Universal Serial Bus 2.0 device."Yup, that quote was on TCF as well. Were you saying something specific by putting that quote in response to the my message about the discussion on TCF?

You can train an engineer to become a better engineer much more readily than you can train an engineer to learn and comply with relevant regulations.

I disagree with this statement 100%. I would rather have 2 really smart, competent engineers who aren't familiar with your area than 5 average to mediocre engineers who've got exactly the right experience.

You may not get as many features or out the door as fast, but what you do get will be designed correctly, a good foundation to expand upon, and it will just work. i.e. the opposite of what we get from comcast.

If they create a USB talk back device for a Tivo S3 or HD, what's to stop them from becoming compatable with Video on Demand? I would imagine a Cable operator would like you to have VOD because that means possible increased sales from PPV Movies, or people upgrading to get premium channels because they like what they see on demand. Or even subscription VOD material like Howard TV and others.
I think it depends on how the VOD menu system is implemented - is it done in the cable boxes, or at the server end? Also, how do you get the TiVo to pass, say, an "up arrow" command through to whatever is driving the menu?

-- Don

I disagree with this statement 100%. That's your prerogative. I would rather have 2 really smart, competent engineers who aren't familiar with your area than 5 average to mediocre engineers who've got exactly the right experience.That has no relevance to what we're talking about. I said, "You can train an engineer to become a better engineer much more readily than you can train an engineer to learn and comply with relevant regulations." I'm not talking about 2 versus 5. I'm talking about the ability to get what the company needs done in the manner it needs to get done.

This thread is really butchered.

So....does anyone with actual contacts know anything new on this Tivo/Comcast roll-out?

This thread is really butchered.

So....does anyone with actual contacts know anything new on this Tivo/Comcast roll-out?

I asked a comcast employee if the TIVO upgrade will be out this year, and he said:

"Why not?"

I then asked him why there is such a long delay and he said:

"We are aware of the problem, and we're working on it."

So you're pinning your hopes on what a Comcast rep tells you. Good luck with that.

Yeah this thread is 56 pages of when is tivo coming? Why not get a regular tivo? etc.. etc..

Hopefully if and when they do release the real Tivo, we'll start a new sticky thread with actual Comcast/Tivo user questions, help, answers, etc..

I hate to say it, but my thread has realy gone down the hill as of late. :(

The TiVo Software is in use by Employees in the first 3 cable plants that are getting it. They got it about 2 weeks ago. I would say give it 30 days or so, before it will be made available to the public.

I hate to say it, but my thread has realy gone down the hill as of late. :(

The TiVo Software is in use by Employees in the first 3 cable plants that are getting it. They got it about 2 weeks ago. I would say give it 30 days or so, before it will be made available to the public.

Hey Scanpa,
Thanks for taking the time to post some news...whether it be positive or negative for those of us patiently waiting. Dumb question, I am sure, but what is a cable plant and why only 3 of them?

Tom

A Cable Plant is the Entire Cable network covering a Major area. This includes The Headend, the cables that run the entire network to your home.

The Headend, is where multiple headend system's are operated out of, These feed the networks in that areas cableplant.

as for why only 3, I have no idea since it was beta tested in 4 locations.

Thanks again Scanpa...hoping Boston area is still up for early roll out.

Here's an update. From its recent earnings report:

"But TiVo also Wednesday disclosed that Comcast has not yet begun rolling out TiVo service commercially. The companies will “commence the TiVo rollout process shortly” in Comcast's New England division, which includes the metro Boston area, Southeast Massachusetts and New Hampshire, TiVo said"

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6473092.html

Any day now? Perhaps.

The TiVo Software is in use by Employees in the first 3 cable plants that are getting it. They got it about 2 weeks ago. I would say give it 30 days or so, before it will be made available to the public.
A Cable Plant is the Entire Cable network covering a Major area.
I am in Westfield Massachusetts, is there a way to know which specific areas will be included in the initial rollout?

- Dan

I asked a comcast employee if the TIVO upgrade will be out this year, and he said:

"Why not?"

I then asked him why there is such a long delay and he said:

"We are aware of the problem, and we're working on it."


I can't help but picture this guy reading these answers to you as he peers into some kind of "Magic 8 Ball" for CSR's.

I myself decided to quit waiting and picked up a TivoHD, hockey season and primetime TV will be starting up soon, and that's about all I watch in HD. I tried the Comcast DVR when I first got my HDTV in the spring, but decided to cut down my monthly bill by returning the DVR and downgrading to basic cable while I waited for either the Tivo software for the Moto box, or the then rumored Tivo Lite. The Tivo box got here first and I'm relieved because I was very dissapointed in the performace of the Moto box and find it unlikely that the Tivo software is going to fix all the things I didn't like about it. Plus now if everything I want to see in HD is available OTA I can keep my cable bill down. Also since I already have a lifetimed S2 I get MSD rate on my Tivo HD, which is likely less than the Comcast DVR with Tivo rental rate is going to be.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/2007-08-29-tivo_N.htm

But Rogers from TIVO was upbeat about deals with Comcast (CMCSA) and Cox. Comcast is about to roll out a long-awaited offering of TiVo as a premium service for its HD DVRs. It will begin in the next few weeks for systems in Boston, southeast Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/2007-08-29-tivo_N.htm

But Rogers from TIVO was upbeat about deals with Comcast (CMCSA) and Cox. Comcast is about to roll out a long-awaited offering of TiVo as a premium service for its HD DVRs. It will begin in the next few weeks for systems in Boston, southeast Massachusetts and New Hampshire.Yeah, but even if it does arrive soon, the question now is if it will be worth it? They just hiked the price of the standard DVR service to $17/mo, and the Tivo service will be well over $20.

Yeah, but even if it does arrive soon, the question now is if it will be worth it? They just hiked the price of the standard DVR service to $17/mo, and the Tivo service will be well over $20.

I still don't get why they don't just make Tivo the default interface for the DVR. The decrease in support calls would more then offset any per DVR payment Tivo gets.

I guess it makes way too much sense.

I still don't get why they don't just make Tivo the default interface for the DVR. The decrease in support calls would more then offset any per DVR payment Tivo gets.

I guess it makes way too much sense.

That's easy, For MOST of the Comcast users, the current Iguide / SARA software works for them and does what they expect. They will not want to pay a premium price for a higher level of service. It will be an added price and higher level of DVR service due to the higher cost of the software.

I don't get why people who are paying upwards of $17 / month for Comcast's less than stellar DVR service just don't get the Tivo HD box and pre-pay for 3 years at a comparable rate for a better product.....hrmm.

I suppose SDV is an issue, but for Comcast still a ways off.

PPV can be accessed with stand alone boxes, but it takes more work.

You lose OnDemand, but get Amazon Unbox.

You get about 50 other features that are clearly not there for regular Comcast DVRs.

Hrmm....

I don't get why people who are paying upwards of $17 / month for Comcast's less than stellar DVR service just don't get the Tivo HD box and pre-pay for 3 years at a comparable rate for a better product.....hrmm.

Because I'm not willing to spend $600-800 for the comparable s3 box, not to mention Tivo won't give me free upgrades and/or replacements. Over the years I've continually upgraded for free with comcast. If the cost was a couple hundred bucks, I'd seriously consider it, but not for $600+, and I'm am not interested in the $200-300 hd tivo.

Because I'm not willing to spend $600-800 for the comparable s3 box, not to mention Tivo won't give me free upgrades and/or replacements. Over the years I've continually upgraded for free with comcast. If the cost was a couple hundred bucks, I'd seriously consider it, but not for $600+, and I'm am not interested in the $200-300 hd tivo.


Yup, those upgrades were free, provided you kept shelling out the monthly rental fee. :confused:

With Comcast jacking up their rates again and again and again, it's not quite the deal it once was. In fact, the rental rates have increased so much that it's now reached an equivalent cost with the TiVoHD on a monthly basis.

That $600 gets you the TiVoHD box (loaded with features and is far easier to use) in addition to the TiVo service for 3 years. That works out to $16.66/month.

The equivalent Comcast scenario is roughly $12-15/mo for the HD DVR rental, an additional $5-10/month for the TiVo software on top of that. So, you're talking $17-25/month for the ComcasTiVo. For a box that is far less functional.

If you're going to use cost as a basis for trying to crap all over TiVo, you should have done a couple of minutes of math before making yourself look like a fool.

Yeah, but even if it does arrive soon, the question now is if it will be worth it? They just hiked the price of the standard DVR service to $17/mo, and the Tivo service will be well over $20.

'well over $20'? Last I heard it was an extra $2.99 (add that to $17 & I get $19.99), what price did you hear for the Tivo service addon?

The latest "rumors" for Comcast Tivo service put it at somewhere between $2.50 and $4.00/month.

On a slightly off topic from the usual Moto talk on here...
http://www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=152706

Because I'm not willing to spend $600-800 for the comparable s3 box, not to mention Tivo won't give me free upgrades and/or replacements. Over the years I've continually upgraded for free with comcast. If the cost was a couple hundred bucks, I'd seriously consider it, but not for $600+, and I'm am not interested in the $200-300 hd tivo.

HD Rookie,

So you're happy to shell out $17 / month for Comcast's DVR (which by all accounts is not very good)....

You won't spend 600+ on an S3 (understandable)

You aren't interested in the Tivo HD @ < $300

Help me out here. What is the reason you would not be interesting in the new Tivo HD box? Too expensive, or not good enough for you?

If it were not good enough for you, why would you want to spend $200+ a year for xx years for Comcast's product? What kind of cool DVR upgrades have they done? How long do you expect to pay for this service?

If the Tivo HD is too expensive, again, why would you pay the same amount over a period of years for a significantly lower quality product?

Doesn't Tivo offer upgraded software for their boxes that gives customers more features over time? Did the S2 or S3 people have to pay an extra fee to get access to Unbox?

Yup, those upgrades were free, provided you kept shelling out the monthly rental fee. :confused:

That $600 gets you the TiVoHD box (loaded with features and is far easier to use) in addition to the TiVo service for 3 years. That works out to $16.66/month.


Yes you are confused. I'm not crapping on Tivo. I'd love to have tivo instead of my moto dvr, I'm just not willing to pay for tivo hardware. And no, $600-800 is the price of the tivo s3, no monthly fee included, unless I missed the fine print and the tivo s3 has 3 years of free service attached to it for free.

HD Rookie,

If it were not good enough for you, why would you want to spend $200+ a year for xx years for Comcast's product? What kind of cool DVR upgrades have they done? How long do you expect to pay for this service?


Wow, you Tivo puds seem to be an angry bunch. Maybe if you get a little snottier with me I'd run right out and buy TIVO.

What kind of cool DVR upgrade have they done? Not many. The upgrades I'm referring to are hardware based. Over the years I've upgraded from an HD box, to single tuner hd dvr, to dual tuner dvr as new products became available.

One thing that wasn't aparent to me with tivohd is that it allows 2 cablecards. I was under the impression that the s3 was required for dual tuner usage for digital cable channels.

Yes you are confused. I'm not crapping on Tivo. I'd love to have tivo instead of my moto dvr, I'm just not willing to pay for tivo hardware. And no, $600-800 is the price of the tivo s3, no monthly fee included, unless I missed the fine print and the tivo s3 has 3 years of free service attached to it for free.

OK, let me make it really simple for you... There are two TiVo boxes :

TiVo Series 3 : $550-800, depending upon where you shop
TiVoHD : $250-299, depending upon where you shop

Now, add in the 3-year prepay TiVo service option of $299 (works out to $8.33/month).

$299 (TiVoHD) + $299 (3-year prepay service) = $600.

Yes you are confused. I'm not crapping on Tivo. I'd love to have tivo instead of my moto dvr, I'm just not willing to pay for tivo hardware. And no, $600-800 is the price of the tivo s3, no monthly fee included, unless I missed the fine print and the tivo s3 has 3 years of free service attached to it for free.Last month, Tivo released a second-generation TivoHD based on newer, more integrated components. The MSRP on that box is $299, and it was recently available for $218 at Circuit City on sale. The core functionality is the same as the original $799 Series3.

You have the option of prepaying $299 for three years of service, or going month-to-month at $12.99 over the same period. Each additional Tivo is $6.99 month-to-month. Comcast typically gives you one MCARD for free with digital service, which is all you need to support both tuners on the TivoHD. Additional MCARDs to support additional TivoHDs typically cost ~$1.75/ea.

In about 30 minutes, you can replace the 160Gb drive in the TivoHD with a 500Gb-1Tb (or larger) drive to substantially increase your recording capacity. My TivoHD has 98 hours of HD storage. Another person has 312 hours of HD storage (http://www.mfslive.org/tivo_hd.htm) on their TivoHD. Picture of my system information screen below:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7127/sysinfoic8.jpg

Wow, you Tivo puds seem to be an angry bunch. Maybe if you get a little snottier with me I'd run right out and buy TIVO.

What kind of cool DVR upgrade have they done? Not many. The upgrades I'm referring to are hardware based. Over the years I've upgraded from an HD box, to single tuner hd dvr, to dual tuner dvr as new products became available.

One thing that wasn't aparent to me with tivohd is that it allows 2 cablecards. I was under the impression that the s3 was required for dual tuner usage for digital cable channels.

Wow. Way to start throwing stones without having a clue... Time to come out from the cave and live a little...

You mean, outside of introduce two new dual-tuning HD DVR boxes within the past year ? Yeah, they've done very little :

Both the Series3 and the TiVoHD have two CableCARD slots. The TiVoHD supports both S-Cards (single stream) and M-Cards (two streams) out of the gate. The Series3 supports S-Cards now, and is very, very likely to support M-Cards in the near future.

Both units will officially support eSATA drive expansions by the end of this year. Currently, the Series3 has a super-simple backdoor to allow users to do this, which isn't "officially" supported by TiVo at this time. Slap a 1TB eSATA drive in there and have 150+ hours of HD recording capacity.

Both units allow you to rent or purchase TV shows and movies from Amazon Unbox, which download direct to your TiVo box.

Both units allow you to subscribe to audio or video podcasts, which download direct to your TiVo box.

Both units allow you to stream your music and photos from a home PC to your TiVo very easily.

Both units will allow you to stream/download video content from a home PC to your TiVo by the end of the year.

Both units will allow you to stream video content between TiVo boxes via your home network by the end of the year.

Both units allow you to schedule recordings via a web interface at tivo.com.


Time to wake up and smell the coffee....

Wow. Way to start throwing stones without having a clue... Time to come out from the cave and live a little...

You mean, outside of introduce two new dual-tuning HD DVR boxes within the past year ? Yeah, they've done very little :

Both the Series3 and the TiVoHD have two CableCARD slots. The TiVoHD supports both S-Cards (single stream) and M-Cards (two streams) out of the gate. The Series3 supports S-Cards now, and is very, very likely to support M-Cards in the near future.

Both units will officially support eSATA drive expansions by the end of this year. Currently, the Series3 has a super-simple backdoor to allow users to do this, which isn't "officially" supported by TiVo at this time. Slap a 1TB eSATA drive in there and have 150+ hours of HD recording capacity.

Both units allow you to rent or purchase TV shows and movies from Amazon Unbox, which download direct to your TiVo box.

Both units allow you to subscribe to audio or video podcasts, which download direct to your TiVo box.

Both units allow you to stream your music and photos from a home PC to your TiVo very easily.

Both units will allow you to stream/download video content from a home PC to your TiVo by the end of the year.

Both units will allow you to stream video content between TiVo boxes via your home network by the end of the year.

Both units allow you to schedule recordings via a web interface at tivo.com.


Time to wake up and smell the coffee....

I've had tivo (directv sd & series 2), mot 9012 w/moxi and mot 6412 w/iguide. Loved the tivo and moxi interfaces...light years ahead of iguide. I dislike iguide, and am thinking about picking up a tivo HD, but it seems as if we're talking apples and oranges here.

Tivo HD: $600 now, and you're set for 3 years. 3 year parts (?) / 3 months labor warranty.
CableDVR: $12-$15/month, with basically lifetime warranty. That's $432-$540 over the same 3 year period.

I have 2 DVRs, so Tivo out of pocket would be $900 according to tivo.com. Monthly cable dvr lease charges would add up to about $1150 over 3 years ($13 x 2 per month + $6 per month fee for 2nd dvr).

So if you have the cash for the upfront purchase, want better hardware and software, desire the extra features and are willing to risk labor charges for any system failure after the first 3 months, then Tivo HD is definitely for you.

If you just want to watch/record shows & VOD, don't want or need the extra features, and would rather pay monthly with no upfront money and no risk, the cable dvr seem like a better choice.

For the record: I use my dvr to watch and record shows. I also enjoy the free VOD offerings.

I don't use PPV, I don't pay for VOD and wouldn't use Unbox. I also wouldn't use any of the media server functions.

I would use remote scheduling on occasion and would probably expand my storage.

I'm on the fence :)

I did have some issues with my Tivo HD not getting all the channels, but Comcast worked them out very shortly.

I suffered through years of the Microsoft Guide beta-test here in Seattle, but compared to what the rest of you had with iGuide, MS' guide was epic. Within three days after being "downgraded" to the iGuide, I bought a Tivo. The Comcast reps noted that they had seen a large spike of Tivo users in the Seattle metropolitan area within days of us going to iGuide.

I was willing to wait for Comcast Tivo while I had the MS Guide - especially when my only option was the Series 3 which would have been $1000 with the three years of service. But iGuide was so terrible in functionality (compared to MS' guide, to say nothing of Tivo) that even if S3 was still my only choice, I probably would have bit the bullet. That I had a cheaper and just as effective option in a Tivo HD made it a no-brainer for me, since the final cost is $6 a month more. I imagine it will probably save me money compared to Comcast Tivo when it eventually gets to Seattle, but then that will probably be three years, anyway, and I can then compare them head-to-head since I'll be on month-to-month with Tivo by then and it will probably be around $20 a month, too.

The Comcast reps also noted I have some type of "subscriber assurance" package (ala Microsoft's "software assurance") which means even if the problem is on the Tivo end, they still work the issue for me. Don't really know what it means, but it appears I am "insured" for the next three years of my Tivo service with Comcast in terms of ensuring interoperability for at least one-way stuff, which is nice.

I don't get why people who are paying upwards of $17 / month for Comcast's less than stellar DVR service just don't get the Tivo HD box and pre-pay for 3 years at a comparable rate for a better product.....hrmm.


That's exactly what we are doing (check that, what we DID.) I'm just watching this thread for comic relief, suckas. :D

OK, let me make it really simple for you... There are two TiVo boxes :

TiVo Series 3 : $550-800, depending upon where you shop
TiVoHD : $250-299, depending upon where you shop

Now, add in the 3-year prepay TiVo service option of $299 (works out to $8.33/month).

$299 (TiVoHD) + $299 (3-year prepay service) = $600.

I reread and wanted to follow up on earlier posts. Paul, I've seen you posting in this forum and/or other comcast/motorola forums I've been following for years. I don't recall you being a jag in the past and thought I might have gotten overly testy. You guys got a little snotty in your posts and I may have over reacted in return. I apologize for adding negativity and extra posts to an endlessly long thread. I actually did learn a bit today. Somewhare along the line I lost track of TIVO (I guess I stopped following tivo after the s3) and didn't realize they released a more reasonably priced dual tuner hd cablecard unit. With my comcast dvr bill now approaching $18/month, it is certainly worth looking into.

All, have a good holiday weekend.

I reread and wanted to follow up on earlier posts. Paul, I've seen you posting in this forum and/or other comcast/motorola forums I've been following for years. I don't recall you being a jag in the past and thought I might have gotten overly testy. You guys got a little snotty in your posts and I may have over reacted in return. I apologize for adding negativity and extra posts to an endlessly long thread. I actually did learn a bit today. Somewhare along the line I lost track of TIVO (I guess I stopped following tivo after the s3) and didn't realize they released a more reasonably priced dual tuner hd cablecard unit. With my comcast dvr bill now approaching $18/month, it is certainly worth looking into.

All, have a good holiday weekend.

No harm, no foul... When you finally end up getting your TiVo (be it ComcasTiVo or a real one), we'll be ready to answer any questions you may have,,,

I don't get why people who are paying upwards of $17 / month for Comcast's less than stellar DVR service just don't get the Tivo HD box and pre-pay for 3 years at a comparable rate for a better product.....hrmm.I pay only $13 a month for Comcast's DVR. With the TiVo S3 (at least), I would have to pay $3 a month extra for a second CableCard. (I'm paying $6 extra a month because my S3 is my second digital device on the same outlet.)

I suppose SDV is an issue, but for Comcast still a ways off.There is no way to know that for sure. There are as many people, like yourself, making that statement as there are people making the exact opposite statement.

Because I'm not willing to spend $600-800 for the comparable s3 box... and I'm am not interested in the $200-300 hd tivo.Sorry but this makes no sense. I see no appreciable difference between my $600 (-$200 rebate) TiVo S3 and the $300 TiVo HD being sold today. I don't regret making my purchase in May, but if I knew then what I know now, I'd have waited for July, because the TiVo HD is just as good for most everything as the TiVo S3.

Comcast SDV may happen sooner than most think. But the jury is still out.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/13/comcast-promises-400-hd-channels-this-year-and-800-the-next/

http://www.heavyreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=125584&site=cdn

Comcast SDV may happen sooner than most think. But the jury is still out.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/13/comcast-promises-400-hd-channels-this-year-and-800-the-next/

http://www.heavyreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=125584&site=cdn

Well they are counting each individual HD VOD entry as a "Channel". So our area has 20 Linear HD Channels and maybe 50 HD VOD choices available. This logic would say our system has 70 HD Channels! Ugh.

I don't think we'll see SDV become widespread with Comcast until late in 2008. They were slow getting started unlike Time Warner who already has their foot in the door with this technology. Nice to know that Comcast allocated a generous budget for SDV.

At MSD rates and a price not much below retail a Tivo HD will pay for itself in around two years compared to a hypothetical $20 per month Comcast/Tivo DVR, this makes me wonder how long of a commitment Tivo would need to require to offer a rental HD Tivo @ $20/mo, if they could get it down to 1 year, I think they would get alot of the people that are afraid of owning the hardware and the high upfront cost. Has Tivo ever offered rental hardware?

I don't get why people who are paying upwards of $17 / month for Comcast's less than stellar DVR service just don't get the Tivo HD box and pre-pay for 3 years at a comparable rate for a better product.....hrmm.Here in eastern MA we've never had the option to use anything other than the box we were provided by Comcast.

I need to start doing some more research on the cheaper TivoHD box. I like the idea that I can swap in a larger hard drive, and I'm just getting fed up with waiting for Comcast.

Here in eastern MA we've never had the option to use anything other than the box we were provided by Comcast.

Ummm... no.

The cable companies are required by law to allow you to get a cable card and use it in the device of your choice (Tivo, CC equipped TV, etc).

It's the law.

A small news tidbit regarding Comcast Tivo:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Still-Waiting-on-Comcast-TiVo-87141

I frequent that site often and if there's any news regarding anything Comcast it's usually posted.

Ah, interesting. But even so, a box like the Tivo HD doesn't offer Firewire and I have a DVHS so I'm not willing to give up on that, not quite yet...

Ummm... no.

The cable companies are required by law to allow you to get a cable card and use it in the device of your choice (Tivo, CC equipped TV, etc).

It's the law.Ummm.............Not quite:

The law (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf) requires them to supply them for devices meeting 15.123:
(b) No later than July 1, 2004, cable
operators shall support unidirectional
digital cable products, as defined in
§ 15.123 of this chapter, through the provisioning
of Point of Deployment modules
(PODs)
But you see that15.123 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13nov20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/octqtr/pdf/47cfr15.123.pdf) includes:
(4) Includes the POD-Host Interface
specified in SCTE 28 2003 (formerly
DVS 295): ‘‘Host-POD Interface Standard’’
(incorporated by reference, see
§ 15.38), and SCTE 41 2003 (formerly
DVS 301): ‘‘POD Copy Protection System’’
(incorporated by reference, see
§ 15.38), or implementation of a more
advanced POD-Host Interface based on
successor standards. Support for Internet
protocol flows is not required.
Note: the reference to POD Copy Protection System, placing a limitation on the devices that they need to supply "PODs" for. And thus the reason for not being willing to install of a PC (or any device that is not labeled "DCR" - Digital Cable Ready).

Ummm.............Not quite:

The law (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf) requires them to supply them for devices meeting 15.123:

But you see that15.123 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13nov20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/octqtr/pdf/47cfr15.123.pdf) includes:

Note: the reference to POD Copy Protection System, placing a limitation on the devices that they need to supply "PODs" for. And thus the reason for not being willing to install of a PC (or any device that is not labeled "DCR" - Digital Cable Ready).

I can assure you that if you call Comcast they will say that they are fully aware of the FCC mandate on supplying cable cards at customer request and are more than happy to do so.

Smaller cable companies and resellers can get a waiver so that they do not have to provide this support, but Comcast IS required to.

I can assure you that if you call Comcast they will say that they are fully aware of the FCC mandate on supplying cable cards at customer request and are more than happy to do so.

Smaller cable companies and resellers can get a waiver so that they do not have to provide this support, but Comcast IS required to.I was particularly referring to the "etc." part of your post - and wanted to point that out (hence the "not quite"). I'll admit that I read this post just after reading (on another thread) someone complaining about Comcast refusing to install a CC on a PC (thus my awareness of exceptions and caution about etc.). Nonethless, I do agree with your comments about Comcast.

I'm convinced the Comcast TiVo service is a myth.

Soon man....soon.

I hope it has a native HD resolution pass through.

Just noticed tonight the football game on NBC HD looked much sharper directly off of my TV's QAM tuner. Why? My TV's QAM tuner was receiving a direct 1080i signal and converting it once. The Motorola's output is 720p, so it converts NBC's 1080 to 720p, then my TV again converts it to 1024x768 (the 42" plasma's native resolution).

Please oh please have a native hd resolution pass through! And come out soon will ya!

I hope it has a native HD resolution pass through.

Just noticed tonight the football game on NBC HD looked much sharper directly off of my TV's QAM tuner. Why? My TV's QAM tuner was receiving a direct 1080i signal and converting it once. The Motorola's output is 720p, so it converts NBC's 1080 to 720p, then my TV again converts it to 1024x768 (the 42" plasma's native resolution).

Please oh please have a native hd resolution pass through! And come out soon will ya!

From recall: switch your output to 1080i. Turn the power off, then push the menu button. Select 1080i on the output then power to turn off, then power to turn back on. You should be getting 1080i output from the Craporola DVR.

Soon man....soon.I've been hearing that going on 2yrs now. Every time it gets close they push it back. That's why I think it doesn't exist. Now we get PRs saying it's only "weeks" away. Oh, something happened, gone again... Typical.

FYI, it looks like TiVo has finally resolved the macroblocking issues they'd had with the Moto and SA CableCARDs being used with the TiVoHD. The vast majority of reports from users receiving the latest updates indicate that all of their problems have been resolved.

Also, TiVo just announced that the Multi Room Viewing (MRV), TiVo To Go (TTG) and TiVo To Come Back (TTCB) features will be included in a new firmware update for both the TiVoHD and Series3 devices. You'll be able to play SD and HD videos from one unit on another unit, over your home network, as well as play videos from your PC on your TiVo. Good times!

Any of you tired of waiting for the ComcasTiVo should have no reservations about jumping on the TiVoHD now...

Also, TiVo just announced that the Multi Room Viewing (MRV), TiVo To Go (TTG) and TiVo To Come Back (TTCB) features will be included in a new firmware update for both the TiVoHD and Series3 devices. Any of you tired of waiting for the ComcasTiVo should have no reservations about jumping on the TiVoHD now...

Anything new on enabling external storage?

I've been hearing that going on 2yrs now. Every time it gets close they push it back. That's why I think it doesn't exist. Now we get PRs saying it's only "weeks" away. Oh, something happened, gone again... Typical.

The partnership was only announced two years ago. This isn't as simple as loading the latest computer game up. It is Comcast after all.

The partnership was only announced two years ago. This isn't as simple as loading the latest computer game up. It is Comcast after all.

Two years ago on existing hardware. It wasn't being designed and built from the ground up.

Soon man....soon.

I can't stop.... holding my sides!!!

Anything new on enabling external storage?

Yes, it's working on Tivo HD in the latest software release. No easy way to enable it, but you can do it with the MFSLIVE.org tool.

Full esata support expected by the end of the year too.

I am getting impatient of waiting for ComasTivo and thinking about jumping ship to the TivoHD. My only hesitation is when Comcast goes to SDV my TivoHD might become obsolete. Are my concerns valid? Any idea how long before Comcast rolls out SDV? Could Tivo release a software update to fix the S3 and TivoHD when SDV becomes a reality?

I am getting impatient of waiting for ComasTivo and thinking about jumping ship to the TivoHD. My only hesitation is when Comcast goes to SDV my TivoHD might become obsolete. Are my concerns valid? Any idea how long before Comcast rolls out SDV? Could Tivo release a software update to fix the S3 and TivoHD when SDV becomes a reality?

Yes, your concerns are currently valid. There's no software remedy for the S3/TiVoHD's incompatibility with SDV. Its a hardware issue.

CableLabs recently posted an article that described a USB dongle which would allow unidirectional CableCARD devices (i.e. TiVo Series3 and TiVoHD) to operate in an SDV environment, but there are no such devices available to us consumers as of yet.

No idea about Comcast's roll-out of SDV.

With the amount of free HD OnDemand programming, no way am I getting a TivoHD. I only have one box, and I just couldn't miss out of such treats as Mad Men in HD for free.

With the amount of free HD OnDemand programming, no way am I getting a TivoHD. I only have one box, and I just couldn't miss out of such treats as Mad Men in HD for free.Of course, this is only temporary until these channels launch in high-def.

Of course, this is only temporary until these channels launch in high-def.


Ya, I really don't miss on-demand with my Tivo, the suggestions pretty much provides stuff for us to watch, we even look there before looking to Live TV.

Besides, I still have an HD tuner in the bedroom if there's something available with On-Demand that I simply have to see.

With the amount of free HD OnDemand programming, no way am I getting a TivoHD. I only have one box, and I just couldn't miss out of such treats as Mad Men in HD for free.
If that's the only thing preventing you from making the switch, then my understanding is that in most markets the price of a standard digital STB is included with the price of your digital cable service. So you swap out your cable DVR for a standard STB, and then pay an additional ~$1.50 for a CableCard. There are some nightmare scenarios where people haven't been able to get past idiot CSRs who want to overcharge for services or dual CableCards, but the normal case should be a CableCard for free or a small fee.

Actually it appears to be market dependant.

I have digital silver service from Comcast in the Denver market. I am being charged $7 extra for my one HD tuner (non DVR) box and I'm being charged $1.50 + 6.95 Digital Service Charge for the two cable cards in my Tivo HD.

I've called Comcast 5 times and talked to 12 different CSRs/tech support/managers and noone will remove those extra charges, they claim if they do it will break the Cablecard functionality for my HD programming.

I won't be giving up though, I plan on writing a letter to Comcast and my local franchise authority.

Actually it appears to be market dependant.

I have digital silver service from Comcast in the Denver market. I am being charged $7 extra for my one HD tuner (non DVR) box and I'm being charged $1.50 + 6.95 Digital Service Charge for the two cable cards in my Tivo HD.

I've called Comcast 5 times and talked to 12 different CSRs/tech support/managers and noone will remove those extra charges, they claim if they do it will break the Cablecard functionality for my HD programming.

I won't be giving up though, I plan on writing a letter to Comcast and my local franchise authority.
How long has your area been Comcast? Do you have an analog cable pkg, or what is their justification for the 'Digital Service Charge'?

You're right, perhaps "most" was an overstatement, but it may be related to Comcast markets that have been bought out from other providers in recent years.

e.g., a Comcast market that last year was a Time Warner market, still uses Scientific Atlanta equipment, and charges Comcast prices for programming packages, but charges in-line with the old Time Warner fees for equipment.

So, in my area that has been Comcast for some time and came up as AT&T -> MediaOne -> Comcast, I get a Motorola HD box included with my premium digital cable pkg. I pay the additional DVR fee, but if I were to drop back to a standard HD STB, I wouldn't be charged extra.

In my parents' nearby area, that has only recently become Comcast and came up as Paragon -> Time Warner -> Comcast, they get a Sci Atl SD box included with their premium digital cable pkg. Since they added DVR service, they pay additional for that, but don't have to pay to have it upgraded to an HD DVR. If they wanted a standard HD STB, they might have to pay an additional $7, depending on to whom they talk. I know others in their area that have an HD STB without any additional fees.

Of course, this is only temporary until these channels launch in high-def.AMC-HD is already offered here, so I assume you're meaning once Comcast starts offering it nationwide the show will no longer be gratis? That remains to be conent Comcast offers? Has anyone actually looked at it recently? It is increasing and some of it is actually quite good. Yesterday I watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit and enjoyed it quite a bit.

As for suggestions that I buy a TiVo-HD and use a cable STB for OnDemand, that makes absolutely no sense, especially when you only have 1 HDTV set, as I assume the average home (like mine) still does. Why bother?

As for suggestions that I buy a TiVo-HD and use a cable STB for OnDemand, that makes absolutely no sense, especially when you only have 1 HDTV set, as I assume the average home (like mine) still does. Why bother?

You can use the Tivo as the DVR (since it is significantly more effective then iGuide/SARA) and the STB to handle VOD, unless the bulk of your TV watching is live/VOD vs. DVR.

I use DVR exclusively, so when I was downgraded from the Microsoft Enhanced guide (itself no treasure) to iGuide/SARA, it forced my hand to Tivo HD since iGuide/SARA has so many deficiencies I found it essentially unusable.

No thanks. Just what I need, 1 more box...

How long has your area been Comcast? Do you have an analog cable pkg, or what is their justification for the 'Digital Service Charge'?

You're right, perhaps "most" was an overstatement, but it may be related to Comcast markets that have been bought out from other providers in recent years.

e.g., a Comcast market that last year was a Time Warner market, still uses Scientific Atlanta equipment, and charges Comcast prices for programming packages, but charges in-line with the old Time Warner fees for equipment.

So, in my area that has been Comcast for some time and came up as AT&T -> MediaOne -> Comcast, I get a Motorola HD box included with my premium digital cable pkg. I pay the additional DVR fee, but if I were to drop back to a standard HD STB, I wouldn't be charged extra.

In my parents' nearby area, that has only recently become Comcast and came up as Paragon -> Time Warner -> Comcast, they get a Sci Atl SD box included with their premium digital cable pkg. Since they added DVR service, they pay additional for that, but don't have to pay to have it upgraded to an HD DVR. If they wanted a standard HD STB, they might have to pay an additional $7, depending on to whom they talk. I know others in their area that have an HD STB without any additional fees.

My market is one of the oldest Comcast markets. If memory serves, Comcast has one of their regional call centers right here in the Denver area.

My market is one of the oldest Comcast markets. If memory serves, Comcast has one of their regional call centers right here in the Denver area.
Well then, that's just jacked up.

I finally gave up on waiting and got a TivoHD. It's so nice to be back on a Tivo interface.

I finally gave up on waiting and got a TivoHD. It's so nice to be back on a Tivo interface.

There is no comparison between the TiVo interface and iGuide. I will NEVER go back. The DCT Moto box I had was a piece of crap. I could care less about when SDV is coming. No controller lag, no repeat recordings, swivel-search, TiVo suggestions, eSata "support," 30 sec. skip, a user-friendly search feature, online scheduling, and on and on and...

does anyone know if the comcast tivo will have online shed?

does anyone know if the comcast tivo will have online shed?


Comcast will soon be offering Online Scheduling compatible with all SA & Moto DVR STB. There working on the finishing touches.

I would say end of year or 1st. qtr. 2008

Comcast will soon be offering Online Scheduling compatible with all SA & Moto DVR STB. There working on the finishing touches.

I would say end of year or 1st. qtr. 2008

Will it be required to have the Comcast/Tivo upgrade to utilize online scheduling? Or will online scheduling also be able to talk to the I-Guide (Motorola) SARA (SA) versions as well?

Comcast will soon be offering Online Scheduling compatible with all SA & Moto DVR STB. There working on the finishing touches.

I would say end of year or 1st. qtr. 2008

Translation: Expect it Q3 2009 :rolleyes:

Ya I'm actually glad that I stopped waiting on the Comcast Tivo software (even though it will support on demand and PPV) and just got a Tivo HD. I do have billing headaches to deal with, but that's the price you pay to be an early adopter.

Will it be required to have the Comcast/Tivo upgrade to utilize online scheduling? Or will online scheduling also be able to talk to the I-Guide (Motorola) SARA (SA) versions as well?


This feature is not TiVo Software dependant.

This feature is not TiVo Software dependant.
So Scanpa, one more time--when will the Comcast/Tivo sotware be released in Boston?
By the way, thanks for all your help on these forums.

Ya I'm actually glad that I stopped waiting on the Comcast Tivo software (even though it will support on demand and PPV) and just got a Tivo HD. I do have billing headaches to deal with, but that's the price you pay to be an early adopter.

What billing headaches did you encounter? I too am growing tired of waiting and I don't think I can deal w./ this crap interface anymore... what can I expect to deal w/ if I make the switch?

I suggest everyone stop waiting for the Comcrap Tivo to be rolled out and switch to Dish Network like I did this past week. Dish has a new Vip722 DVR that is AWESOME! I am a former DirecTV/Tivo owner and I am very impressed with the new Dish DVR. Not only is it very fast, but it also has an enabled USB port that supports external hard drives up to 750GB. Unlimited HD storage! Can't beat it!


:cool:

I suggest everyone stop waiting for the Comcrap Tivo to be rolled out and switch to Dish Network
Never

Well, after Dish loses its appeal and has to pay Tivo royalties for all the copying they do, you'll get an opportunity to support Tivo anyway with that Dish DVR.

By the way, Tivo CEO Rogers presented at a Maxim investors conference today, and was stated that Comcast has had a "kickoff" with its employees in the New England area and is just waiting on engineering to finalize the roll-out. But he used the words imminent in terms of timing.

... he used the words imminent in terms of timing.

You'd think that if comcast/tivo is production worthy and the timing is imminent that comcast would start to release some concrete information or marketing details, like when, where, how much, features, etc... I guess I don't understand a damn thing that comcast does.

Well, it IS a pretty big deal to have some other company's software act as your main user interface. I can understand their desire to make sure the chance of defects is as small as possible.

I suggest everyone stop waiting for the Comcrap Tivo to be rolled out and switch to Dish Network like I did this past week. Dish has a new Vip722 DVR that is AWESOME! I am a former DirecTV/Tivo owner and I am very impressed with the new Dish DVR. Not only is it very fast, but it also has an enabled USB port that supports external hard drives up to 750GB. Unlimited HD storage! Can't beat it!


:cool:

Never

+1

NFW will Charlie Ergen ever get a penny of my money.

Let's see how his tune changes when he finally receives that kick in the junk via the TiVo patent lawsuit he so rightly deserves.

So what do you think will be out first? The new "My TV Guide" I-Guide A26 release, or the Comcast Tivo software?

http://www.itvt.com/TVGuide-MyTVGuide-2007-cable-sm.jpg

I'll try the Tivo software for sure, but when the new I-Guide comes out I'd like to give that a go as well. AFAIK, the new Tivo software still does not make use of a 16:9 HD Display for it's graphical interface.

If the new TV Guide has all of this data mining features, remote recording, suggestions, user profiles, and a true 16:9 HD interface, it could really give the Tivo software a run for it's money.

New My TV Guide info:

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6438864

and
http://www.itvt.com/wvlao%5Bitvt%5D-htmlissue7.32pt3.html
(Scroll almost halfway down)

Well, it IS a pretty big deal to have some other company's software act as your main user interface. I can understand their desire to make sure the chance of defects is as small as possible.

Agreed, but in the software world, when there is talk of "roll-outs" and the timeframe is "imminent", that is generally a signal that the code base has been tested and is fully functional (or darn close). In other words, it is production worthy and ready for GA.

Well, after Dish loses its appeal and has to pay Tivo royalties for all the copying they do, you'll get an opportunity to support Tivo anyway with that Dish DVR.

What do I care? I'll be busy enjoying my 722 HD DVR!


:D

+1

NFW will Charlie Ergen ever get a penny of my money.

Let's see how his tune changes when he finally receives that kick in the junk via the TiVo patent lawsuit he so rightly deserves.

The lawsuit will probably be settled and long over with before Comcrap gets around to rolling out Tivo!

The lawsuit will probably be settled and long over with before Comcrap gets around to rolling out Tivo!

Funny, that's not what the CEO of TiVo is expecting. A choice quote from him today at the Maxim Group Growth Conference (whatever that may be) :

From the Q&A, Comcast had ‘Comcast TiVo day’ about a week ago, and had about 800 New England region Comcast employees getting revved up for the TiVo roll-out which is imminent.

Sounds like it's pretty damn close to me... Oh yeah, another interesting nugget :

He made more comments strongly hinting that DirecTV and TiVo may be getting together again once the Liberty Media purchase of DirecTV finalizes later this year.

Quotes courtesy of Megazone at tivolovers.com HERE (http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/525546.html)

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6434896.html

On i-Guide -- the IPG the company develops through its GuideWorks joint venture with Comcast -- remote-recording capability will be part of the A26 release, which is currently scheduled to be available in early 2008.
But, unfortunately, the new i-Guide will be required for remote recording.

What do I care? I'll be busy enjoying my 722 HD DVR!


:D

Unless if it's disabled by the injunction.

I can't wait for the Tivo option to be available, you had me look up the definition of imminent to try and decipher if it's any day now, or any month now...

im·mi·nent
Pronunciation: 'i-m&-n&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin imminent-, imminens, present participle of imminEre to project, threaten, from in- + -minEre (akin to Latin mont-, mons mountain) -- more at MOUNT
: ready to take place; especially : hanging threateningly over one's head <was in imminent danger of being run over>
- im·mi·nent·ly adverb

Ready to take place? That sounds promising. What's the hold up now? Think we'll hear anything by October 1st?

Oh and on that Tivo lovers blog there was a blurb about Real Rhapsody on Tivo. Wasn't Comcast working on a deal with Real Networks on a music content service for their Cable boxes? Could this perhaps one day be included in the Comcast Tivo? I wonder... DVR's have DOCSIS modems inside. I don't think it would be hard to utilize that to download all of the special features, guide data, and stream online music or video.

Unless if it's disabled by the injunction.

Highly unlikey. Maybe a few bucks will eventually exchange hands. By then, the Vip722 will be obsolete. I'll probably have the vip1522 by then which will have something like 3D HD capability or something... Don't wait too long for Comcrap Tivo to roll out!


:eek:

I'll try the Tivo software for sure, but when the new I-Guide comes out I'd like to give that a go as well. AFAIK, the new Tivo software still does not make use of a 16:9 HD Display for it's graphical interface.

Can't comment on Tivo for Comcast, but my Tivo HD's interface is in 16:9 HD.

Can't comment on Tivo for Comcast, but my Tivo HD's interface is in 16:9 HD.The TivoHD and Series3 have 16:9 HD backgrounds for the menus, but the actual text is still scaled SD.

Furthermore, none of the Tivo screens actually take advantage of 16:9. Yes, they have 16:9 HD backgrounds, but they don't use the extra space to provide more information or options.

As far as I know, the Dish Network 622/722 are the only DVRs that actually take advantage of 16:9 to display more information on the screen.

Can't comment on Tivo for Comcast, but my Tivo HD's interface is in 16:9 HD.

In all the prerelease pictures of the Comcast Tivo interface, I've seen the black bars on the sides of the guide. They were using 16:9 Plasma/LCD displays.

I suggest everyone stop waiting for the Comcrap Tivo to be rolled out and switch to Dish Network like I did this past week.

I was with Dish for years, but my current location has no satellite access. The Dish DVR was light years ahead of Comcast in terms of performance and features.

I was with Dish for years, but my current location has no satellite access. The Dish DVR was light years ahead of Comcast in terms of performance and features.

Of course it was. Dish stole all the good software from Tivo. At least Comcast is willing to pay for it without a judge having to intervene.

Of course it was. Dish stole all the good software from Tivo. At least Comcast is willing to pay for it without a judge having to intervene.

I think all the waiting for Comcrap Tivo to rool out might have made you bitter...


:D