Oppo Digital DV-970HD FAQ / Brain dump [Text View] - Page 15

drlava

01-10-07, 09:23 PM

Hello all, based on the good reviews of this player I decided to get one for my old hitachi widescreen HD RPTV monitor.

First problem with the oppo: no analog audio out - with or without HDMI audio enabled.
No matter how I set the downmixing, there is no analog sound coming out of any of the audio jacks. Tried different combinations of menu settings and powering off and on, no dice.

Second problem: I make DVDs of home movies with menus and such, and a few years ago I read that the most complatible DVDs were the ridata dvd-r discs. I have found this to be true, every player I tried could play, even my old apex 600 could play these dvds. Not the oppo, however! It struggles with the inside tracks and only sometimes is able to load a dvd. Sometimes it starts playing right in the middle!

I'm very dissappointed in this oppo DV-970HD player so far, I'd expect at least it would have media reading compatibility on par with a PC dvd rom, given the high ratings and buzz surrounding this player.

Any suggestions? Maybe I just got a bad one and its replacement will work better. Here's hoping, anyway.

greeno

01-10-07, 09:40 PM

drlava,
If you read back, I think someone else had the same problem. did you take a look at the manual? can you get audio from a digital connection? Is your receiver set to the audio multi-channel input?
I hooked mine up (component, digital and multichannel output) and it just worked for dvd-v, dvd-a, sacd, dts, dd5.1, etc.

gotta be something simple you're overlooking in the hookup/menu selections. pour a beer and sit down and think it through.

the slow/poor loading is worrisome. mine loads every disc fast. Might be a bad unit.

jeff

drlava

01-10-07, 09:49 PM

Hi, I definitely did read the manual looking for a solution.

My 'receiver' is a 70's vintage marantz jobber, no encoding to mess with. Also, I hooked the audio straight to the TV audio input. for the tests. I can buzz the speakers by unplugging from the oppo and touching the tip, so it's not a connection problem.

I tried dvds, divx-mp3 movies, and plain-ol CDs, all no audio.

socratesdante

01-10-07, 10:16 PM

I have a 65" MITS RPTV with only components and am pretty close to purchasing this DVD player. Does anyone know of this player reads both dual layer DVD formats (+R and -R)?

With the firmware hack does the Oppo 970 upconvert to 1080i via component on copy protected DVD's? From this thread I see it does upconvert to 1080i over component with the hack, which is what I am looking for.

Great thread and thanks for all the information!

primetimeguy

01-10-07, 10:59 PM

drlava

01-10-07, 11:24 PM

I'm going to wait till my player's working, but what firmware rev. number does the hack use? open the tray and press OSD.

primetimeguy

01-10-07, 11:36 PM

I'm going to wait till my player's working, but what firmware rev. number does the hack use? open the tray and press OSD.

It is 1A-613. Someone posted a new link for it a couple pages ago as the old one was no longer working.

skipsterut

01-10-07, 11:39 PM

drlava

01-10-07, 11:40 PM

so is this really a hack, or just reverting to an old revision that didn't have the limitaion? It seems that going to a revision that old would leave out all of the improvements they have done wince then.

I have emailed tech support about the sound issue, just waiting for business to open tomorrow to see what can be done :)

primetimeguy

01-10-07, 11:50 PM

so is this really a hack, or just reverting to an old revision that didn't have the limitaion? It seems that going to a revision that old would leave out all of the improvements they have done wince then.

I'm not sure if the hack is a modified old firmware or just old firmware. But yes, if you need any of the improvements they have made in newer firmware you woud not have them with the hack.

krabapple

01-11-07, 01:37 AM

Early on in the DSD mastering world, DSD had to be converted to PCM to introduce audio processing. Today DSD mastering tools have been developed which avoid the use of PCM in the mastering process. But 16 bit 44.8 kHz PCM was never used in mastering DSD material, but only high resolution PCM. If 24 bit, 88.2kHz PCM processing is used in the 970 it is a step in the right direction, but even 96kHz does not quite match its sonic requirements, and it is an extra conversion step, even if well implemented. At this point I just don't have all the details from OPPO's nice technical staff. OPPO does not even tell us how DVD-Audio is treated in this player. I'll keep digging.

Richard.

Congratulation. You have swallowed all the audiophile Kool Aid.

Some day, do some research into the *actual* reasons why DSD was developed.

DVD-Audio, which is a form a PCM, is passed by the Oppo at whatever its native resolution is -- I can verify this by seeing what my Pioneer AVR says it is receiving when placed in Pure Direct mode. For a 192 kHz (which is and ABSURD sampling rate btw..also the maximum available to DVD-A) 2-channel DVD-A it tells me it's receiving...192 kHz input. Of course I 'destroy' that by using Dolby Pro Logic II , which likely downsamples the input to something like 48 kHz (which has a 24 kHz cutoff) . As I can't even hear 18 kHz and above, I kinda doubt I'm able to tell the difference due to downsampling. I kinda doubt you would be able to either.

krabapple

01-11-07, 02:01 AM

"If it's DSD 24/88.2 it is sent as PCM 24/88.2. For DVD-Audio 48, 96, or 192 are sent as PCM 48, 96, and 192. "

First, there is no such thing as DSD 24/88.2.

True, DSD is 1 bit /2.8 MHz. If it uses DSD-Wide during production then it went through an 8 bit stage! That's why some wags call DSD-Wide 'PCM-Narrow'. Oh, the horror.

That is purely a PCM concept. Apparently DSD is converted to PCM 24/88.2 but that sampling rate is only applied to this player's HDMI digital audio output. According to the e-mail from OPPO's tech support both DVD-Audio and DSD are sampled at 24/96 then subject to signal processing (bass management, time alignment) and then converted to analog output.

Well, 24/96 is even 'better' than 24/88, so why complain?

If I am reading this correctly, SACD is converted to PCM 24/96 for analog output conversion, and then downconverted again to 24/88.2 for HDMI digital audio output.

That would be a curious path for the HDMI output, since a direct conversion of DSD (whose sampling is exactly 64 times redbook rate, meaning it's exactly 32 times 88.2) involves simpler math than conversion to 96 kHz. 96 kHz however is an even multiple of 48 kHz, which is a common rate in computer audio and perhaps DSPs....

There is no word in this e-mail concerning higher sampling rates for DVD-Audio over the HDMI output. I'll pose that question to them tomorrow.

But Delta Sigma Modulation used for SACD has a much higher resolution than 24/96. People in the mastering field suggest it is the sonic equal to PCM at 48/192.

But oddly enough, no none has ever backed up such claims with repeatable scientific results. Do you know what 'resolution' means in audio?

Being in the 'mastering field' does not mean one adheres to scientific standards of proof. Unfortunately. I've seen some mastering engineers make absolutely ludicrous statements about sound. But audio professionals who do have a more scientific/technical bent are often skeptical of formats like DSD. See, for example, Dan Lavry's papers on sample rates (he designs high-end pro converters for a living).

It also avoids several digital to analog conversion steps necessary with PCM. To state that DSD to PCM conversion is not a sonic compromise is not useful considering all of the research and demonstrations that have repeatedly and consistently shown that 24/96 is not the sonic equal of SACD

If by sonic equal you mean, it actually *sounds* distinguishable in blind listening tests, please, where has this 'repeated' research been published? The only such research I'm aware of is a pair of papers by Oohashi;s group in Japan, which contains some curious methods and conclusions, and so far has not proven replicable by other groups.

but it is a heck of a lot better than previous efforts that converted SACD down to 16/44.8. And, as we all have heard, even 16/44.8 can sound very decent with quality converters and well recorded and mastered recordings. {I am not trying to pick a DSD v PCM fight, merely suggesting that there is some merit to those who seek DSD to analog conversion without the introduction of a PCM step along the way}.

None that has ever been properly demonstrated, I'm afraid.

And the PCM conversion of DSD is only used because OPPO does not purchase a DSD chip set that can handle bass management and time alignment in DSD mode.

I'm not aware that any consumer units can do time alignment in the DSD domain.
And of course if you apply ANY DSP downstream , like room correcting EQ or Pro Logic surround synthesis, you will be converting to PCM.

OPPO did as good a job as it could using PCM. 48/192 PCM converters cannot be used in a $150.00 unit. Sony uses pure DSD audio in its superb low end players, and they sound very very good, but they do not sport bass management
or time alignment.

I am not attacking OPPO, just asking for more transparency in their disclosure of its audio features than currently featured in their promotional information.

They have already disclosed *far* more than most manufacturers.

krabapple

01-11-07, 02:14 AM

I also asked Oppo about SACD, and the also informed me that SACD is always processed at 88.2Khz/24bit.

RAFABAMAD, yes, DVD-Audio can support 192Khz/24 bit with stereo only, surround sound is limited to 96Khz/24 bit, and of course you can also do stereo 96Khz, although technically you can do that with DVD-video also as long as you don't use too much bandwidth for any video content.

I'm a bit surprised that they chose 88.2Khz as with economies of scale most devices for the last few years have included 192Khz capable convertors.

DSD-->>88.2 is a numerically (and thus computationally) 'cleaner' operation since they are integral multiples. DSD-->192 kHz is not. I would guess this is the reason.

That is why you see a lot of receivers with 192Khz on the spec sheets even though there is not a digital method (except HDMI, although I'm not sure if 1.3 is required for 192) that can transfer 192Khz included in any consumer equipment.

I believe ilink can do it.

Of course none of them support 48bit, but I have never seen 48bit used in a convertor (and I work with profession studio equipment as part of my day job), internally many systems use it for processing in order to maintain quality.
24bit is more than capable of expressing the dynamic range available in analog equipment (really great equipment will have up to about 120dB of range, which can be captured with 20 bits).

Indeed.

All that being said, I have a 970 on order and it should be here next week, so I can't comment on the quality yet. However I expect it to blow my current Pioneer universal player out of the water. I also can't compare it to any pro level DSD equipment due to the extremely high cost of getting into DSD production.

Which Pioneer player is that?

Shawn Parr

01-11-07, 02:52 AM

DSD-->>88.2 is a numerically (and thus computationally) 'cleaner' operation since they are integral multiples. DSD-->192 kHz is not. I would guess this is the reason.

I saw your post above about that. That makes a lot of sense. Although theoretically they may have been able to use the ever-popular 176.2Khz. (This is a joke that an Roland employee used to use as they always highlighted 88.2 and 176.2 support on their products when they went high-res).

I believe ilink can do it.

Also true, I often overlook Firewire/IEEE1394/iLink on consumer devices as it has really spotty adoption, where SPDIF/TOSLINK is on everything.

Which Pioneer player is that?

A DV-578-A. It has issues. It sounds decent on SACD, but for DVD-Audio is problematic. Maybe it is my unit, or maybe others have this too, but any DVD-Audio playback is distorted, playing the DVD-Video section of dual format disks does not have the distortion. For CD I use digital connections anyway as my Outlaw receiver has better sounding convertors. I expect the Oppo to sound a bit better for the SACD, and possibly CD audio, although I may or may not use that if the Outlaw still sounds better.

gonk

01-11-07, 07:43 AM

so is this really a hack, or just reverting to an old revision that didn't have the limitaion? It seems that going to a revision that old would leave out all of the improvements they have done wince then.
This is a hack, and it is based on an older version of the official firmware.

Jack Gilvey

01-11-07, 08:05 AM

DVD-Audio, which is a form a PCM, is passed by the Oppo at whatever its native resolution is -- I can verify this by seeing what my Pioneer AVR says it is receiving when placed in Pure Direct mode. For a 192 kHz (which is and ABSURD sampling rate btw..also the maximum available to DVD-A) 2-channel DVD-A it tells me it's receiving...192 kHz input.
Good to confirm.

DSD-->>88.2 is a numerically (and thus computationally) 'cleaner' operation since they are integral multiples. DSD-->192 kHz is not. I would guess this is the reason.
Didn't know that, makes sense...thanks.
Really looking forward to getting my HDMI situation squared away, the thing sounds (and looks) fantastic it is!

blackmax2k1

01-11-07, 09:05 AM

Do you see them at 720p?

Chris

My TV only does 1080i and I'm using a Mits 65" RP CRT

linsonzach

01-11-07, 09:56 AM

Feirstein

01-11-07, 09:56 AM

sperezmore

01-11-07, 10:33 AM

Hi,

I received the new OPPO 970HD yesterday and I played a DVD through my new Panasonic TH-50PX600U plasma through HDMI (cable contained in the oppo box), I have noted the following problems

1. I tried two DVD, one a movie and the other, the break-in DVD. When I set the output of oppo box to 720p or 1080i, (ASPECT in oppo box is Wide), its not filling the entire TV screen (TV ASPECT setting is FULL). In the top and bottom its not filling about 0.5 cm but its completely filling both sides. If I change the output of oppo box to 480i or 480p, then no problem, its filling the entire area.

Jack

Hello Jack,

Check the link,

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_support.html

Q: Why are there thin black borders at the top and bottom of the display when I use 720p or 1080i output resolutions?

A: In order to properly up-convert the standard definition video from DVD discs to 720p or 1080i output resolutions, the video processor inside the DVD player must zoom the video image without causing pixelated image, loss of resolution or other artifacts. The optimal zoom ratio for the particular video processor in the OPPO DV-970HD leaves a small portion of the display at the top and bottom blank, thus causing the thin black borders. Many TV has built-in overscan so you may not notice these borders. However if your display device does not have overscan, the thin borders will become visible. This is a limitation of the video processor hardware, and the borders cannot be eliminated without sacrificing picture quality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am waiting for my OPPO 970HD to arrive at my door any moment. My display is a Plasma Panasonic TH-50PX60U (Killer picture) and I will make some tests before a decide to keep it. If I do not like what I see then I will get the Pioneer DV-696AV

You can check the Pioneer here,

http://www.samstores.com/details.asp?ProdID=6700

Regards,

geekformayor

01-11-07, 10:39 AM

So I just got the 970 in the mail the other day. I hooked it up to my Samsung TX-R3079WH via the HDMI input (1080i).

At the moment, I am really dissatisfied with how it looks. I have been just using my xbox 360 to watch DVDs via component cables. And I'd say the xbox looks better.

With the oppo everything seems noisier perhaps? I can see pixels. Would getting something like an AVIA DVD to help calibrate help me?

I need some advice, I'm a noob at this stuff. And so far I want to go back to using my 360...

Jack Gilvey

01-11-07, 10:58 AM

Hello Jack,

Check the link,

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_support.html

Q: Why are there thin black borders at the top and bottom of the display when I use 720p or 1080i output resolutions?

A: In order to properly up-convert the standard definition video from DVD discs to 720p or 1080i output resolutions, the video processor inside the DVD player must zoom the video image without causing pixelated image, loss of resolution or other artifacts. The optimal zoom ratio for the particular video processor in the OPPO DV-970HD leaves a small portion of the display at the top and bottom blank, thus causing the thin black borders. Many TV has built-in overscan so you may not notice these borders. However if your display device does not have overscan, the thin borders will become visible. This is a limitation of the video processor hardware, and the borders cannot be eliminated without sacrificing picture quality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am waiting for my OPPO 970HD to arrive at my door any moment. My display is a Plasma Panasonic TH-50PX60U (Killer picture) and I will make some tests before a decide to keep it. If I do not like what I see then I will get the Pioneer DV-696AV

You can check the Pioneer here,

http://www.samstores.com/details.asp?ProdID=6700

Regards,

Just want to add that they will send you a firmware fix if you want to try it. I assume that the sacrifice in PQ was great enough not to warrant its official inclusion in a firmware rev. As noted in Oppo's response above, if I turn overscan on with my pj, they pretty much disappear into the border of my 2.35:1 screen, but they don't bother me. I like the look of a 2.6:1 film. :)

With the oppo everything seems noisier perhaps? I can see pixels. Would getting something like an AVIA DVD to help calibrate help me?
In general, you should never judge anything display-related without at least a basic calibration. Avia is great, but the THX Optimode part of Disney discs (Incredibles,Cars,Monster's Inc., etc.) contains basic patterns with which to set contrast and brightness. Makes a big difference.
Anyway, when I pointed out to Oppo that my 970 seems sharper than my 971, their response was:

"The DV-970HD is sharper than the OPDV971H but may show more
aliasing and interlacing errors."

Haven't noticed these on my display, but I guess the Faroudja chip in the 971 sacrifices a little sharpness to hide the above errors.

bigzeto

01-11-07, 02:06 PM

Hey guys, I just got my oppo 970 and hooked it all up....I left my old dvd player hooked up as well...It is an old Sony DVP-NS501PS running 480p to my Hitachi projection HDTV....I am running the oppo at 1080i via HDMI and for some reason the picture does not look as good as my Sony...I really was expecting a noticeable difference which is why I ordered it, but I'm just not seeing it....I have 2 copies of the same movie "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and when I switch back and forth between the two, the Sony looks a little more crisp...I ran a basic calibration to make sure, but it's not as clear....Does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks

Luis Gabriel Gerena

01-11-07, 02:10 PM

Has anyone compared the dac quality of the 970 to a Toshiba hd-a1?

walkman666

01-11-07, 03:20 PM

I have the 970 for about a week now. Regarding drlava's issue with no analog sound through the TV, I too, had this issue (I had partial sound -- background sounds and movie soundtrack sound, but no dialogue), but realized it was because I had downmix on the Oppo set to "5.1" instead of either "stereo" or "mono." Changing downmix to stereo, now I have analog sound through my TV fine. drlave, you have indicated that you have changed this setting as well, so I'm wondering if there's something else you have done wrong (e.g. maybe not connected the audio cables to the "mixed" terminals on the Oppo?). I also output sound via an optical cable to my surround sound Outlaw receiver (I use the TV sound for youngish kids so that they can pop in a movie without having to fiddle around with the receiver). That works, too.

Regarding zzzipped's issue, what's interesting is that when I use the THX optimizer audio test, the test tones do not sync up with the speakers shown on the THX opimode diagram (5.1). However, when I conduct the same test using Sound & Vision home theater tune-up test disc, the test tones are aligned with the proper speakers (5.1). In looking back in this very same thread, avsbobes in post #2034 reports the same issue on page 68, but Neuromancer says this glitch is okay and explains it post #2036 ("This is due to a buffering problem with the MTK decoder chipset used in both the OPDV971H and the DV-970HD. Your channels will be visually off by one speaker to the right, though the audio will be sent to the proper channels.") Avsbobes confirmed that this "visually off to the right warning" in the THX optimizer test for the Oppo was reported elsewhere within the thread.

I have hacked the player to upconvert of component. The picture at 1080i is very nice, as good or better than my now mechanically challenged and stored zenith dvb-318.

- walkman

hoodlum

01-11-07, 05:05 PM

Here is a review of the 981.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/OPPO_DV-981HD.html

krabapple

01-11-07, 05:15 PM

krabapple

01-11-07, 05:43 PM

Sony currently markets SACD players that perform bass management and time alignment without resorting to PCM conversion prior to DSD to analog conversion. Professional DSD mastering tools now permit this also.

I suspect that at the professional level, differences heard between the analog master tape and DSD v. High Resolution PCM copies can be attributed as much to differences between digital to analog converter issues as it can be attributed to differences in the formats themselves. Both sound very close to the source, if not identical.

Higher resolution formats are not utilized for their ability to capture higher audio frequencies, but for their ability to more accurately capture the audible waveform.

Reference to square wave demonstrations, which are usually used in such arguments, even by the companies ("look how much better the hi-rez format reproduces the square wave!! No contest!!"), neglects the fact that you don't pass such square waves to your brain -- your ear 'hears' a curvy wave because it filters out all the high-frequency overtones that go into making a square wave. Just like lower-rez formats do. All you hear are the in-band, sinewave-like components. So once you've captured those in-band components accurately -- whihc even lowly 44.1 does, to the limits of our hearing -- you've got what you need. Higher sample rates may make the *engineering* of the playback chain easier (e.g. , filters), but where's the proof that taking more samples beyond what's needed, necessarily translates to something audible? Arguing that DSD-level 'accuracy' translates to better sound is like saying that ultraviolet and infrared wavelengths need to be captured in a photograph.

Here is a telling quote from Dan Lavry's paper on sampling theory (http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf)

Nyquist pointed out that the sampling rate needs only to exceed twice the signal bandwidth. What is the audio bandwidth? Research shows that musical instruments may produce energy above 20 KHz, but there is little sound energy at above 40KHz. Most microphones do not pick up sound at much over 20KHz. Human hearing rarely exceeds 20KHz, and certainly does not reach 40KHz. The above suggests that 88.2 or 96KHz would be overkill. In fact all the objections regarding audio sampling at 44.1KHz, (including the arguments relating to pre-ringing of an FIR filter) are long gone by increasing sampling to about 60KHz.

Consumer hi-rez was driven as much by a search for new, patentable formats (and thus revenue stream) as by any pressing need for more accuracy. Also, in the case of DSD, the format was originally envisioned as an archiving format by record companies, designed to be easily convertible to PCM in multiples of 44.1. THe idea of making it a delivery format came afterwards. Meridian, which championed PPCM (the DVD-A format) has put out some lengthy papers on the rationale for hi-rez but has never, to my knowledge ever offered any listening test results for inspection.
Why is that?

Shawn Parr

01-11-07, 06:53 PM

krabapple,

My Pioneer is one of the cheap ones, not an expensive one, and it doesn't have the output settings of which you speak. Also, while the signal sounds distorted, it doesn't sound as loud as it would if it were a level problem.

And as far as high res audio goes, you can believe what you can, but in many situations I have demoed 44.1 vs. 96K vs. 192K in a recording environment and no one involved that there was no difference. When we recorded an orchestra at 192K a group of people who were naturally hesitant to want the technology to sound better all agree that not only did it sound better, but significantly. This was done with a Protools HD system utilizing an Amek BCIII recording console and DPA, Schoepps, and Neuman microphones, with Meyer HD-1 monitors for playback. Digidesign used the recordings we made as part of their demos of the system in the mid-west for some time (we did the testing independently and allowed Digidesign to use the files as they lent us some of the equipment for the test). We also tested downsampling after recording and found that a signal recorded at higher res and downsampled to 44.1 can sound better than one recorded and delivered at 44.1 directly. I'd post a link to the writeup, but I have less than 5 posts and am not allowed.

All that being said, most of those individuals still haven't even gone to 96K yet due to storage and processing requirements, as well as final delivery issues. I know that a couple of composers I work with regularly have gone completely to 96K production cycles as the synths and recording equipment they use all show great benefit from it.

All that being said, I have no idea if our increased fidelity is ever heard by anyone who listens to our music, as I have no control over their systems. However I do enjoy listening to it on my systems. :)

Shawn Parr

01-11-07, 06:53 PM

Oh, that was 5.

That article is here: http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--03/06/2002

adapa

01-11-07, 10:45 PM

Sonic icons

01-12-07, 01:49 AM

A DV-578-A. It has issues. It sounds decent on SACD, but for DVD-Audio is problematic. Maybe it is my unit, or maybe others have this too, but any DVD-Audio playback is distorted, playing the DVD-Video section of dual format disks does not have the distortion. For CD I use digital connections anyway as my Outlaw receiver has better sounding convertors. I expect the Oppo to sound a bit better for the SACD, and possibly CD audio, although I may or may not use that if the Outlaw still sounds better.

Hi, I have a Pioneer DV-578-A also, and don't hear any distortion in DVD-Audio playback. I just did a comparative listening test, of sorts, using the American Beauty (Grateful Dead) 2004 DVD-Audio, which contains 192 kHz, 24-bit, stereo DVD-A; 96 kHz, 24-bit, 5.1 surround DVD-A; 5.1 surround Dolby Digital; and 44.1 kHz, 16-bit, stereo CD mixes. The audio path was through the two-channel analog output of the player, via the "pure direct mode" of a Marantz 5500 receiver, to Beyer DT-880 headphones. I listened to several songs in stereo DVD-A, stereo CD, and 5.1 Dolby Digital downmixed to stereo in the player. I thought the DVD-A stereo version was absolutely outstanding. Vocals and instruments sounded much more lifelike and natural on the DVD-A than the other mixes, also the "headphone soundstage" was more realistic and less fatiguing on the DVD-A. In particular, on the CD, stereo separation effects seemed excessive, as if the vocalists were sometimes shouting in my left ear, sometimes shouting in my right ear, and were sometimes in the middle of my head (such effects are not unusual in headphone listening).

I don't believe my test was a true "format to format" comparison of DVD-A vs. Dolby Digital vs. CD, because each mix may sound different as a result of decisions made by the mixing engineers, rather than for reasons inherent to the digital format. I do think the test suggests that the stereo DVD-A playback on my player is free of serious problems.

To try to bring this message at least somewhat back on topic: the comparative test (and previous listening to the 5.1 surround DVD-A area through a surround speaker system) leads me to believe that the DVD-A has by far the best sound of any (digital) release of American Beauty. (By the way, we can thank Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead for the existence of the DVD-A; he is given credit for production, sound design, and mixing on the liner notes!) So you need a DVD-A capable player to hear this great sound, such as the Oppo 970HD, which also, of course, has several other capabilities that exceed the (long discontinued) Pioneer 578-A.

JoelcE

01-12-07, 02:15 AM

I'm considering buying the 970. What would tip the balance is a clearer understanding of the hacks. Is it possable to apply a hack so the unit is region free? I gather it will play PAL.
My amp has digital inputs so I'm safe there. Are there other hacks? and what will they do?

By way of reference I have a JVC 52" 720p DLP, older onkyo amp, Klipsh speakers, Tivo S3HD & a S2.

eta; I also play Verbatim +R's & DL+R I've burned from Tivo on occasion.

I was disappointed to discover that my new 970 cannot be hacked to be region-free. I had read that this was possible but discovered that the back door into the service menu was no closed. Is this still true? Is this also true of the 971 and 981 or can they be set to "region free" status?

Not a deal breaker for me, but a disappointment.

joelgee

01-12-07, 06:53 AM

I was disappointed to discover that my new 970 cannot be hacked to be region-free. I had read that this was possible but discovered that the back door into the service menu was no closed. Is this still true? Is this also true of the 971 and 981 or can they be set to "region free" status?

Not a deal breaker for me, but a disappointment.

Yes you can make it a region-free player. I have, and so have many others. Have you tried this sequence?

1. Press Setup on remote control to access the setup page
2. Enter 9210 on the remote
3. A secret menu will pop up
4. Select 0 to 6 in region code (0 is region free)
5. Press Setup on remote again to exit

I believe you have to have no disc playing. If this doesn't work, call OPPO. They'll help.
J

adapa

01-12-07, 09:49 AM

Thank you! I've printed out the insturctions so they'll be at the ready when the player arrives.<grin>

walkman666

01-12-07, 10:45 AM

Yeah, I did the region free hack as described by joelgee. It's simple.

krabapple

01-12-07, 11:05 AM

Oh, that was 5.

That article is here: http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--03/06/2002

All I see there is a short article that contains this disqualifying sentence:

Their findings, which are admittedly subjective (as everything in audio seems to be), are posted below in their words.

Sorry, where's the write-up of the blind test methods, the results, and the analysis?
Becuase yet another 'we compared them by switching back and forth and we hear a difference' anecdote doesn't cut it, regardless of who is doing the listening.

Nika Aldrich used to work for Sweetwater. He's written an excellent book called Digital Audio Explained for the Audio Engineer (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Audio-Explained-Engineer/dp/141960001X) . He is a skeptic regarding high sample rates...there's a section on it in his book.

krabapple

01-12-07, 11:16 AM

To try to bring this message at least somewhat back on topic: the comparative test (and previous listening to the 5.1 surround DVD-A area through a surround speaker system) leads me to believe that the DVD-A has by far the best sound of any (digital) release of American Beauty. (By the way, we can thank Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead for the existence of the DVD-A; he is given credit for production, sound design, and mixing on the liner notes!) So you need a DVD-A capable player to hear this great sound, such as the Oppo 970HD, which also, of course, has several other capabilities that exceed the (long discontinued) Pioneer 578-A.

I would think the DD mixes (if not the sound) would be the same as the DVD-A mixes, on the DVD-A disc, and thus it's available to anyone with a DVD player. My main concern in comparing them would be matching output levels (and ideally the comparison would be blind).

Feirstein

01-12-07, 11:20 AM

We don't want to debate the technical merits of high resolution audio formats here. I trust my ears (and better yet, my kids ears), and I can report that our ears find merit in the claims made for these disks. Not all DVD-A and SACD disks are an improvement over the conventional CD release.

Some of the best sound recordings in my collection are conventional gold disks issued by DCC from the master tape remaster series remastered by Steve Hoffman. I suspect there are just too many fudge factors to peg this down. But, if you could hear some of my favorate multi-channel SACDs on my system you would have a smile on your face. It is really their ability to present multi-channel sound where these formats come into their own.

Richard.

krabapple

01-12-07, 11:44 AM

We don't want to debate the technical merits of high resolution audio formats here. I trust my ears (and better yet, my kids ears), and I can report that our ears find merit in the claims made for these disks.

That does seem to be the way these debates always end, doesn't it? "Whatever, I trust my ears, end of story." :rolleyes:

Some of the best sound recordings in my collection are conventional gold disks issued by DCC from the master tape remaster series remastered by Steve Hoffman. I suspect there are just too many fudge factors to peg this down. But, if you could hear some of my favorate multi-channel SACDs on my system you would have a smile on your face. It is really their ability to present multi-channel sound where these formats come into their own.

Well, even I hear that. :) To me, multichannel remixes, and the *possibility* (not always realized) of better mastering, are the only real benefits of these non-Redbook formats.

Shawn Parr

01-12-07, 12:37 PM

Nika Aldrich used to work for Sweetwater. He's written an excellent book called Digital Audio Explained for the Audio Engineer (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Audio-Explained-Engineer/dp/141960001X) . He is a skeptic regarding high sample rates...there's a section on it in his book.

Okay, this is the very last thing I will post about this in this thread, I promise. Yes, I know Nika, I worked with Nika. Nika had a very unique reputation at Sweetwater. 'nuff said on that.

Anyway, when I described how we did the recording and listening tests, the only reply I got from Nika was "well, obviously you didn't hear what you thought you heard, because that's not possible." Great scientific method.

There is merit to who listens. Listening can be an acquired skill. I have been to blind tests before where there will be 3 individuals that will get 100% accuracy every time, but most other people get much lower or just random results. The reason is that those 3 people have trained themselves in how to listen. The rest haven't. Once again, you can believe what you want to, and you can do as you wish. I myself do any production work I can in at least 96K, and try to find music in high-res formats when possible. Will it always be better, even to me? No, that depends on the recording process, but in my experience the potential is there, and in a worse case scenario the high-res will be the same as the CD quality that is usually included (on SACD, or DVD-Video for a DVD-audio disk).

blackmax2k1

01-12-07, 01:41 PM

It is 1A-613. Someone posted a new link for it a couple pages ago as the old one was no longer working.

This is also on Oppo's site. Was this firmware hacked or is it just an old firmware?

primetimeguy

01-12-07, 01:48 PM

This is also on Oppo's site. Was this firmware hacked or is it just an old firmware?

The hack is a user-modified version of this firmware release from Oppo.

thehun

01-12-07, 02:38 PM

I have HDMI set to "Auto" (per advice from Oppo). I'm at work now and can't remember what what the PCM setting says on the setup screen, but I think it is 48KHz, which I have always found somewhat confusing. I'll check it tonight.

BUT -- as I reported yesterday, when listening to an SACD in PCM Direct mode via HDMI and my Pio Elite 72 AVR, the Pio's display read "PCM Direct 88.2KHz" So I don't think the sampling rate for PCM shown on the setup screen controls the actual rate sampled from the source. An e-mail or call to Oppo tech support could verfify this (or not). Hope this helps.
I'm talking about DVD-A [LPCM] .It doesn't use 88.2khz for any recording released only 48/96/192k, I doubt that Oppo would choose aconversion here like for DSD.

thehun

01-12-07, 02:42 PM

krabapple

01-12-07, 03:30 PM

Steely Dan 'Everything Must Go' two-channel mix. Packaging says 96, but readout says 192.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8485110&&#post8485110

krabapple

01-12-07, 03:39 PM

Okay, this is the very last thing I will post about this in this thread, I promise. Yes, I know Nika, I worked with Nika. Nika had a very unique reputation at Sweetwater. 'nuff said on that.

Anyway, when I described how we did the recording and listening tests, the only reply I got from Nika was "well, obviously you didn't hear what you thought you heard, because that's not possible." Great scientific method.

I've corresponded with and spoken to Nika too, as well as observed his posting on prosoundweb and other fora over the years, where he became a highly respected poster. I don't believe you're telling the story with full accuracy. 'Nuff said, except to say I'm sorry to see Sweetwater endorsing audiophile kool-aid.

There is merit to who listens. Listening can be an acquired skill. I have been to blind tests before where there will be 3 individuals that will get 100% accuracy every time, but most other people get much lower or just random results.

Of course there is merit. A proper blind test will include training beforehand to hear subtle differences. But it remains crucial thing that the listening comparison be done blind. Being an excellent listener does not release you from that requirement. Many a self-professed 'golden ear' has been tricked into hearing what simply doesn't exist.

The reason is that those 3 people have trained themselves in how to listen. The rest haven't.

That's one possible reason, but you haven't demonstrated that it's likely to be the true one, with the evidence you've presented so far. If you really understand the scientific method, you understand why this is so.

Jim Hef

01-12-07, 04:43 PM

Okay, this is the very last thing I will post about this in this thread, I promise....
Can this work for others also and get this back to a thread about the Oppo 970??? :(

Feirstein

01-12-07, 05:44 PM

Well it is about the 970. Oppo claims it is their player that is best for music. We now know that it passes DVD-A along in its native format but downconverts DSD into PCM prior to the analog conversions step. We know that several publications have had good things to say about this unit's sonic ability.

I know that it does play SACD's but is not quite the sonic equal of my Sony 500V which avoids PCM conversion. I know my 500V is not quite the sonic equaly of the Sony stereo unit I borrowed that retailed for about $4,000.00.

We are all waiting for the next product rollout from Oppo which will sport a blu-laser/SACD/DVD-A/CD/DVD/ player featuring all the new lossless audio formats, full bass management and timing adjustments without DSD conversion to PCM, full audio formats over HDMI 1.3, complex video conversion to 1080p/60 and 24 and cost $99.95. Till then we can all agree that this unit does the most for the price, even if other units do some things better, some at a significantly higher price.

Richard.

thehun

01-12-07, 09:46 PM

I know that it does play SACD's but is not quite the sonic equal of my Sony 500V which avoids PCM conversion. I know my 500V is not quite the sonic equaly of the Sony stereo unit I borrowed that retailed for about $4,000.00.

Do you own the 970?

krabapple

01-12-07, 10:15 PM

Sonic icons

01-13-07, 01:11 AM

We are all waiting for the next product rollout from Oppo which will sport a blu-laser/SACD/DVD-A/CD/DVD/ player featuring all the new lossless audio formats, full bass management and timing adjustments without DSD conversion to PCM, full audio formats over HDMI 1.3, complex video conversion to 1080p/60 and 24 and cost $99.95.
Dilbert : Dave, Tell me what the marketing wants the new product to do.
Dave : It has to have a 45 - Inch screen and still fit in a purse or a wallet. It needs to act as a communications satellite as well as a room freshener. It must cure deadly diseases and whiten your teeth while you sleep! and it has to be capable of time travel!! and have a telepathic user interface!
!!!SLAP!!! (Dilbert slaps Dave the Marketing Guy)
Dilbert : I could write a program that makes fish appear on the computer screen.
Dave : Yeah… a lot of people want that.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:INukL8UF3Q4J:www.adityanaik.com/blog/weekend-learnings/+dilbert+%22makes+fish+appear%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

lmplot

01-13-07, 08:02 AM

The Squeeze:
Okay, one more time. Oppo's FAQs explain why there is compression.
Is it really compression?
A 1:85:1 image, if there is mnimal or no overscanning, will produce slight black lines above and below as geometrically it will not fill a 16:9 rectangle if placed exactly in it.
Now--from those who have seen this, and hopefully done an A-B comparison of some kind--when this is seen--are objects also squeezed.
In other words--does this produce an INACCURATE image, or is the problem only that the display is not quite filled?

Jack Gilvey

01-13-07, 08:17 AM

It appears to me to be vertical compression/squeeze, not cropping.

joelgee

01-13-07, 08:29 AM

I'll put it this way, people get noticeably rounder, kind of like in a funhouse mirror.
J

Shawn Parr

01-13-07, 10:14 AM

'Nuff said, except to say I'm sorry to see Sweetwater endorsing audiophile kool-aid.

Sorry, I said I wouldn't talk about this anymore as the thread is already polluted, but I have to add that I used to work for Sweetwater, but do not at this time.

Anyway, back on topic, my 970HD is on the vehicle for delivery today, but considering my family will be around all weekend, and Monday, I may not get a chance to play around with it seriously until Tuesday.

Oh, and for the people asking about my experience with the Pioneer universal I have now (the 578a) I did a bit of research via Google and there are a number of other people out there having distortion issues with DVD-Audio. One or two posts I saw were able to remove the distortion by setting the speakers to small in the Pioneer rather than doing the bass management in a receiver. I don't currently have the Pioneer set up with 5.1 connections (initially I will be running DVD-Audio and SACD stereo, and I have no analog connections for the Pioneer right now, although I'll probably set some up to compare with the Oppo when it arrives) so I'm not going to test if this fixes the problem for me, especially since I haven't really been happy with the video performance since I got the unit and I expect the Oppo to correct that.

Anyway we will likely be watching some movies this weekend! And as soon as I get rid of my family some good music listening will ensue. :)

pjgamber

01-13-07, 10:28 AM

I got my 970 last night and it is awesome, i installed the upconversion hack and have it playing on my sanyo 28" CRT. Now the sanyo is a 1080i but when i have the oppo upconverting to 1080i vertical "scan lines", i guess, can be seen moving form right to left across the screen. so i set it to 720p and it looks fine. wonder why this is, any known fixes?

i have it running into a sony ddw900 HTIB that i picked up in dec for 150 dollars. and i also got my tv last april for 100 bucks, so i only have 400 dollars plus cables in this setup. not bad IMO.

i was using a ps2 hooked up through component cables and the picture quality increase was dramatic. i watched the 5th element and the matrix last night after watching them the previous night on the ps2. man i love this dvd player. i really had no idea there could be that big a difference in picture quality between 2 players.

now i want to pick up s SACD and DVD-a disk. never owned one. can some one
recommend a good jazz, and classical(bethoveen or mozart) production?

ETA: I just purchased Dark side of the moon(Pink FloyD), 1812 overture, bethoveen's symphony no.9 and Kind of Blue. looking for ward to listening to them

Jack Gilvey

01-13-07, 10:33 AM

Miles Davis' "Kind Of Blue" is an exquisite jazz SACD, very subtley (surrounds are just studio ambience) done in 5.1.

Feirstein

01-13-07, 01:48 PM

Actually, Kind of Blue was recorded with three tracks, left - center - right. I believe some modest ambience was added to the rear. When played back on a good system you can hear just how good a job those old guys did with simple basic recording equipment. Few modern recordings are as well recorded. Out of Time is also superb if you can find it in SACD.

Richard.

phatttty

01-13-07, 02:14 PM

krabapple

01-13-07, 04:56 PM

Sorry, I said I wouldn't talk about this anymore as the thread is already polluted, but I have to add that I used to work for Sweetwater, but do not at this time.

I was referring not to you, but to the Sweetwater 'tips' page from a few years back, that you linked to in support of your argument.

Shawn Parr

01-13-07, 10:52 PM

Okay, I'm searching like a madman, and I apologize if this has already been covered, but any assistance would be great.

The 970 showed up today, and I threw it in just moving the cables from the Pioneer to the Oppo. Here are the specifics:

1. The Oppo 970 is a B-stock, this may be the issue, and if this is a completely unheard of issue then a phone call on Tuesday will be very much in order.
2. I do not have an HD tv yet, so I am using an older SD CRT with S-Video (480i), yes that means I'm not really using very much of the video side of the player at this point. :) I'm getting ready for the whole TV thing...
3. S-Video from the Oppo into my Outlaw 1070, to my TV. Optical out of Oppo to the Outlaw as well.

I'm trying to calibrate with DVE, and when I go to the DVD Pluge w/Greyscale (12 - 1) I do not see any of the pluge at all. I'm not just talking about the blacker than black outer bars, but the inner 4% and 2% bars are not there either. I know I have seen the 2% and 4% bars with my Pioneer, so the Outlaw and TV are capable of passing those (as anything should be able to). The Pioneer wasn't passing BTB via the S-Video for me so I don't know if the Outlaw would have clipped that or not. I had an older Sony DVD with this TV that did pass BTB so I know that the TV will display it.

Even weirder, the brightness and contrast controls for the Oppo do nothing. Nothing at all. The Hue and Saturation work as expected, and I also do not see any effect from the Gamma control.

Has anyone else seen this? Is anyone else using the S-Video...:D

I'd really like to get this solved. So far it looks a bit better than the Pioneer, even though we are only talking old school SD (I have never been happy with the Pioneer, the Sony looked way better, but didn't support enough disc formats, and it started not reading perfectly fine discs).

TIA

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I updated to the latest official firmware, and tried the SACD features beta upgrade, both gave the same results.

18 is # 1

01-14-07, 02:23 AM

does anyone know how to set this up to be controlled by a h20 directv receiver? In the receiver setup it doesn't list any oppo dvd players. Would like to be able to control the oppo via the receiver's remote.
Oppo emailed me last week saying they didn't know of any remote codes and a learning remote would have to be used :confused:

phatttty

01-14-07, 09:40 AM

Ok that's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the info

Sonic icons

01-14-07, 04:21 PM

Sorry to take more space on Pioneer DV-578A universal player issues. I remember that some people have reported DVD-Audio problems that were fixed (or are believed to be fixable) by a firmware update. But Pioneer is very bad about providing firmware updates to its serfs, I mean customers. "Believe it or not", there was a class-action lawsuit on the issue, that has gone to settlement. Read the settlement document (other thread!) on how to get an update for your Pioneer player.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=786235

greeno

01-14-07, 04:57 PM

I think that's changed, i.e. Pioneer now will offer the firmware upgrade to anyone who calls when having a playability issue with some disc. At least they did, no questions asked, when I called about my 3rd hand 563a I bought off of ebay.

Best,
jeff

Jim Hef

01-14-07, 09:07 PM

...I remember that some people have reported DVD-Audio problems that were fixed (or are believed to be fixable) by a firmware update....
My Pioneer 563 was "fixed by an update, but the fix was to allow the newer format dual layer discs to play without a problem. I disagree about the firmware being difficult to obtain via Pioneer though, although a tad inconvenient. I had to take my player to an authorized repair station, they kept if a few days to implement the 5 minutes of firmware installation, and then I had it back! The problem I had with the 563 overall is that SACD and DVD-A were at very different levels. So, the calibration that I chose with one format was not at all listenable with the other. Mainly this was in terms of the bass content, but midrange was also affected. My receiver does not allow equalization with the 5.1 analogue cable set, so bass management needed to be applied within the player, and that wasn't sufficient as a single setting. The Oppo's output seems to be very close for both formats, and makes it nice for that "universal" purpose.

b0nes2013

01-14-07, 10:37 PM

adapa

01-14-07, 11:09 PM

I"m getting a 970HD but I have a 780p JVC DLP.

Does anyone know of a listing of the hacks/upgrades for the 970?

gonk

01-14-07, 11:27 PM

The first post in this thread explains how to change the region from region 1 to any other region (including region "0" to work with all regions). Aside from that, there's just the hacked version of the 0613 firmware that disables HDCP and allows component upconversion of copy-protected DVD's.

Shawn Parr

01-14-07, 11:37 PM

This is more information to add to my previous post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9457822&&#post9457822).

I played around and found that the HDMI output was set to 480p. Mind you the HDMI output is not actually connected to anything. I set it to 480i using the HDMI button on the remote and now the Brightness, Contrast, and Gamma settings work as expected.

However the player is still not passing pluge. If you view the color bars with pluge (12-7 on DVE) It only displays the left hand portion of the greyscale (8 bars). None of the patterns with pluge actually display. This is really weird.

Can I really be the only person using this with 480i out of the S-Video? No one here seems to be able to confirm or deny whether this is normal or not, and everything I have found via Google only seems to show testing via the component or HDMI. I guess I'm just a freak. ;)

GSB

01-15-07, 05:16 AM

Can I really be the only person using this with 480i out of the S-Video? No one here seems to be able to confirm or deny whether this is normal or not, and everything I have found via Google only seems to show testing via the component or HDMI. I guess I'm just a freak. ;)Well, its very possible that you are the only one around here using S-Video. And just maybe you have discovered a defect. First make sure that the TV is not the source of some of the errors, like pluge, and then report it to OPPO.

Gary

Chris Gerhard

01-15-07, 05:34 AM

I just bought the Sony KD-34xbr970 like two weeks ago and I am in the market for a DVD player for it now. I purchased the Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player and it is connected with HDMI , but the picture (to me) doesn't even look as good my Xbox 360 on my old SD 27" CRT. After reading about the Oppo players I have decided to go that route but was looking for direction as to which is better (DV971H or the DV971HD) for my TV. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have the KV-30XBR960 and the DVP-NS75H and think the picture quality is excellent with the two. If you haven't tried to calibrate the player with that display, you might try that before giving up on the combination. I don't know the differences between the two displays, yours is newer, but I would think the two are very similar.

I would think the Oppo DV971H is better than the DV970HD with your display, but either one should be excellent.

Chris

18 is # 1

01-15-07, 10:14 AM

I just bought the Sony KD-34xbr970 like two weeks ago and I am in the market for a DVD player for it now. I purchased the Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player and it is connected with HDMI , but the picture (to me) doesn't even look as good my Xbox 360 on my old SD 27" CRT. After reading about the Oppo players I have decided to go that route but was looking for direction as to which is better (DV971H or the DV971HD) for my TV. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
What will you use the DVD for? How will you connect it? That TV has only 1 HDMI input (as does mine). I use mine for a Dish DVR. That means the Oppo musy be connected by component cables. Only the 970 can upscale through component cables....

Jim Hef

01-15-07, 10:25 AM

...I would think the Oppo DV971H is better than the DV970HD with your display, but either one should be excellent.
And, the updated 981HD! Although you wouldn't be feeding the CRT based display a 1080p upconversion, you will get some of the latest bells for not a lot more.

walkman666

01-15-07, 11:16 AM

Just thought of a dumb question: I have the 970 hooked up via component to my toshiba 34hfx83 CRT. I am using the upconversion hack. My TV manual says the Tosh upscales to 480p images to 1080i.

Question: Is my upconversion over component hack a waste? Would the TV upconvert the dvd images to 1080i? Should I just use the latest firmware for the 970 instead of the upconversion hack? (Or, maybe I need to compare & contrast myself)

thx, walkman

Jim Hef

01-15-07, 11:32 AM

...Or, maybe I need to compare & contrast myself....
That's the only way to really tell what's what with your display. Try both and see which has the better scaler.

walkman666

01-15-07, 11:36 AM

b0nes2013

01-15-07, 12:21 PM

I will be using HDMI.

Sonic icons

01-15-07, 12:28 PM

(Hopefully my last OT post about those older Pioneer players)
(a) Not surprising that the occurrence of a lawsuit, even one settled out of court, improved their attitude on distribution of firmware updates :)
(b) There is an interesting Sound and Vision Mag review of Pioneer 563a, from November 2003, that points to "inconsistent bass management for SACD and DVD-A", probably due to hardware-level bugs that cannot be fixed by a firmware update. That would explain the problems noted by Jim Hef.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/dvdplayers/509/pioneer-dv-563a-universal-dvdsacd-player.html
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/1132003135639.pdf

Shawn Parr

01-15-07, 01:18 PM

First make sure that the TV is not the source of some of the errors, like pluge, and then report it to OPPO.

Done and done. I plugged the Pioneer back in using the same cables that the Oppo was using and it passes the pluge just fine, although it doesn't pass BTB, but the 4% and 2% are very much there. I sent Oppo an email since I anticipate that they are closed for the holiday today.

I've also scheduled time at a friend's house today who happens to own a Philips LCD hdtv with a free HDMI port so I can ensure I just don't have a bum unit. According the the very first post of this thread the unit should pass not only pluge but BTB via HDMI.

(a) Not surprising that the occurrence of a lawsuit, even one settled out of court, improved their attitude on distribution of firmware updates

Unfortunately one has to go to a service center to get the update done. Also the paperwork indicates that it should have been bought via a dealer, while I got mine second hand. greeno mentioned not having a problem even with a 3rd hand unit, but once again due to holidays I can't call until tomorrow. Either way I live in the middle of nowhere and I'll probably have to either drive 5 hours or ship it off to get the firmware upgrade.

That along with the bass management issues (if that also affects the 587) pretty much make it a done deal, as long as I can get the Oppo to play nice with my system. Having really low resolution dark areas is not fun. Although it allows me to pretend my CRT is a fancy new LCD tv... :D

18 is # 1

01-15-07, 01:37 PM

thx Jim Hef. That would require me toggling back and forth with the firmware updates, and the tiny anxiety associated with mucking up the player as a result, but chances are it'll be fine and that's what I should do. Part of me says to "keep things clean," and use the latest firmware, which has the latest Oppo approved software, no potential vertical compression, and I guess I should still get 1080i as a result of my TV's scaler.
You don't need to change firmware, just change the output on the remote (bottem left side) with the DVD in stop mode. This will allow you to see any difference between 480p & 1080i from the Oppo.

walkman666

01-15-07, 04:23 PM

Aaaaaah, good point 5 is #1, thanks. I will check that.. Then, if I find no difference between 1080i output on the Oppo for 480p Oppo > 1080i from my Toshiba, I may change back to the most current firmware so that I have well, "the most current firmware."

Shawn Parr

01-15-07, 05:21 PM

I tested my unit on an HDTV and got a response back from Oppo.

On the HDTV the signals via HDMI were all fine, and the S-Video still didn't produce any pluge in test patterns.

Then Oppo sent me this:

The brightness, contrast and gamma adjustments only work for the
component and HDMI output. The S-Video and composite outputs were
originally intended for trouble-shooting purpose, so that if an
incompatible output resolution or PAL/NTSC setting caused the TV to
show no image from the player, these two connections can be used to
check the menu settings.

So apparently this is just how the Oppo works. I'll continue to talk to Oppo to see if there is something I can do, and I hope there is, but for the time being the lack of detail in dark areas is pretty annoying.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I tried 720p and 1080i on the HDTV (Philips 32PF7320A) and both those settings produced a vertical green bar on the right side of the screen. Since it wasn't my tv I didn't spend any time doing calibration changes, but I also didn't see anything that would have an effect on this. It seemed like the image was being produced left of center by 5 or 10 pixels and the green area was where the image stopped prematurely. Neither the TV nor the Oppo have image shifting controls from what I saw.

adapa

01-15-07, 10:05 PM

.... Aside from that, there's just the hacked version of the 0613 firmware that disables HDCP and allows component upconversion of copy-protected DVD's.

Thanks for the region info.

I was under the impression the hack version of 0613 was so the player would output a 1080i signal over component cables. I'll be using both a HDMI and a coax digital cables for the conection. I didn't think this hack was necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Perhaps I misunderstand what this hack does tho. Are DVD's incrypted with HDCP which might not alow for upconversion regardless of the digital cabeling/amp/TV?

18 is # 1

01-15-07, 10:28 PM

gonk

01-15-07, 11:42 PM

Thanks for the region info.

I was under the impression the hack version of 0613 was so the player would output a 1080i signal over component cables. I'll be using both a HDMI and a coax digital cables for the conection. I didn't think this hack was necessary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Perhaps I misunderstand what this hack does tho. Are DVD's incrypted with HDCP which might not alow for upconversion regardless of the digital cabeling/amp/TV?
The hack is only of use if you have either no HDMI or DVI input to use (thus making the upconversion via component video handy) or you have a TV with a DVI input that is not HDCP compliant (thus making the elimination of HDCP handshake hassles handy). WIth an HDMI connection, the hack is entirely unnecessary and you're test off with the latest official firmware.

Ungermann

01-16-07, 03:36 AM

I've got a Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma TV and an OPPO 970 player, connected via HDMI. I use 480p mode. When brightness on the TV is set below 7, everything is fine. When brightness is set to 7 or higher, then the TV displays flickering red subpixels. The red components on the whole screen kind of flicker and kind of run from left to right. It seems as if there is noise somewhere, I don't know where: in the player, in the cable or in the TV. Anyone have seem something similar with OPPO 970 player? Thanks.

Ungermann

01-16-07, 03:38 AM

I've got a Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma TV and an OPPO 970 player, connected via HDMI. I use 480p mode. When picture (white level) on the TV is set below 7, everything is fine. When picture is set to 7 or higher, then the TV displays flickering red subpixels. The red components on the whole screen kind of flicker and kind of run from left to right. It seems as if there is noise somewhere, I don't know where: in the player, in the cable or in the TV. Anyone have seem something similar with OPPO 970 player? Thanks.

Ungermann

01-16-07, 03:39 AM

Shoot, for some reason I could not update my posting. Picture control, not brightness.

Davidt1

01-16-07, 12:55 PM

Hi,

I hear that Oppo continually improve their products. Does anyone know if the latest batch of the 970s have usb 2.1, display dimmer and autopoweroff. Thanks.

gonk

01-16-07, 01:05 PM

I don't believe so. OPPO does a great job of providing firmware updates, but at least two of these issues are hardware changes that are a different matter entirely. My understanding of the 970 design is that the chipset used to provide the USB input only supports USB 1.1, making it impossible to support USB 2.0 without a pretty significant hardware re-design. As a result, I would not expect to see USB 2.0 appear on the 970. I think that the display dimmer is also hardware-limited, but I'm not sure about the auto power-off. If it's not a hardware limit, OPPO may be working to add it in future firmware.

For features that require hardware changes to allow the firmware to be modified, even revising the hardware quietly opens an unpleasant can of worms. In that case, you would then have a problem of either maintaining two separate firmware versions (one for the original 970's and one for the revised models that support these featuers) or having features that don't work for some players - and both of these are situations that are undesirable from a customer support standpoint.

Jack Gilvey

01-16-07, 01:14 PM

I hear that Oppo continually improve their products. Does anyone know if the latest batch of the 970s have usb 2.1, display dimmer and autopoweroff. Thanks.
Not sure about those, but with the latest hacked firmware mine plays HD DVD and BD discs, with full DTS HD decoding to boot. 45's, too. Pretty nice surprize, as you might imagine.

Davidt1

01-16-07, 01:32 PM

Not sure about those, but with the latest hacked firmware mine plays HD DVD and BD discs, with full DTS HD decoding to boot. 45's, too. Pretty nice surprize, as you might imagine.

Hehehe

rosh400

01-16-07, 03:48 PM

The DV-970HD has a slight vertical compression of 5 to 10 pixels from the top and bottom. This can be addressed through firmware (beta which is available by contacting OPPO direct).

Can this problem be addressed by sending 480p via HDMI to my display letting my display scale it?

greeno

01-16-07, 04:03 PM

Can this problem be addressed by sending 480p via HDMI to my display letting my display scale it?

The squeeze only applies to upconversion. 480i/p are not affected.

jeff

Yakatak

01-16-07, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=Ungermann]I've got a Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma TV and an OPPO 970 player, << When picture is set to 7 or higher, then the TV displays flickering red subpixels. The red components on the whole screen kind of flicker and kind of run from left to right. It seems as if there is noise somewhere,<<

I have a 50PX600U and don't have this problem. You're not committing the ultimate sin of operating in VIVID mode are you?

grubadub

01-16-07, 04:32 PM

I just bought the Sony KD-34xbr970 like two weeks ago and I am in the market for a DVD player for it now. I purchased the Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player and it is connected with HDMI , but the picture (to me) doesn't even look as good my Xbox 360 on my old SD 27" CRT. After reading about the Oppo players I have decided to go that route but was looking for direction as to which is better (DV971H or the DV971HD) for my TV. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

i have the kd34xbr970 with the oppo 970 and it works very well. and the sacd, dvd-audio formats are really cool. after doing a lot of reading on this and other forums, the general consensus was that the 971 was better for larger screens and the 970 would do fine on smaller screens ( 40" and smaller). you can always call oppo themselves and see what their recommendation is. remember the 971 does not play sacd & dvd-audio. 2 months ago i'd never heard of sacd. i sure am glad i stumbled upon it. very cool.

adapa

01-16-07, 06:21 PM

The hack is only of use if you have either no HDMI or DVI input to use (thus making the upconversion via component video handy) or you have a TV with a DVI input that is not HDCP compliant (thus making the elimination of HDCP handshake hassles handy). WIth an HDMI connection, the hack is entirely unnecessary and you're test off with the latest official firmware.

Thanks Gonk and 5 is #1. That's what I thought but since I didn't have the time to read 120 pages of postings in this thread....<grin>

Now if the player would hurry up & arrive I'd get to play.<big grin> Thanks again for cleating up my confusion.

GSB

01-16-07, 08:55 PM

Having really low resolution dark areas is not fun. Although it allows me to pretend my CRT is a fancy new LCD tv... :DHAHAHA! Good one!

Gary

GSB

01-16-07, 08:59 PM

I tested my unit on an HDTV and got a response back from Oppo.

On the HDTV the signals via HDMI were all fine, and the S-Video still didn't produce any pluge in test patterns.

Then Oppo sent me this:

So apparently this is just how the Oppo works. I'll continue to talk to Oppo to see if there is something I can do, and I hope there is, but for the time being the lack of detail in dark areas is pretty annoying.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I tried 720p and 1080i on the HDTV (Philips 32PF7320A) and both those settings produced a vertical green bar on the right side of the screen. Since it wasn't my tv I didn't spend any time doing calibration changes, but I also didn't see anything that would have an effect on this. It seemed like the image was being produced left of center by 5 or 10 pixels and the green area was where the image stopped prematurely. Neither the TV nor the Oppo have image shifting controls from what I saw. Interesting update.

Some TV's require you to enter the Service Menu to shift the picture. I'm sure that's all it is. The 970 doesn't create a green bar.

Gary

Spencer1813

01-16-07, 09:02 PM

Not sure about those, but with the latest hacked firmware mine plays HD DVD and BD discs, with full DTS HD decoding to boot. 45's, too. Pretty nice surprize, as you might imagine.

I want one.

Negative 1

01-16-07, 09:38 PM

Interesting update.

Some TV's require you to enter the Service Menu to shift the picture. I'm sure that's all it is. The 970 doesn't create a green bar.

Gary

I ran into this green bar problem on mine with the Philips TV and the 981 with HDMI.

I got rid of it by pressing the format button on the controller then pressing the right shift button and it moved the screen.

I was stumped myself, contacted Oppo and Philips over it. Finally ended up finding it out on my own.

homersboy

01-17-07, 02:30 AM

Hi folks,
Have been reading the Oppo 970HD forum all evening (121 pages, wow!)... Made it thru the most recent 20 pages of posts, so maybe my questions aren't new (and I'm a newbie, so pardon my initial ignorance), but here goes:

1) Could the upconvert technology residing in this and other similar DVD players be used not only to enhance the SD video from a DVD disc, but ALSO to upconvert the many SD channels from a cable provider's lineup? (I know there are no "inputs" on the Oppo units, but if this upconvert capability is technically possible, then are there ANY DVD players out there that do have such an input - and the ability to achieve this?).

2) I haven't seen many posts about the 970HD's USB interface and its capabilities, and I'm trying to figure out how much value this feature might have for me: Does the Oppo upconvert video accessed thru this interface?.... And are there ways to archive SD movies and other programs on a large and (relatively) inexpensive USB hard drive - and then access and view them via the Oppo USB interface? Would the fact that this is USB 1.1 (rather than 2.0) cause data streaming problems?

3) Regarding the hack firmware update mentioned in the forum, which enables upconverted video via the component output: Since the component output is analog - and therefore does not carry the HDCP info - would this allow one to archive an "upconverted" analog video - and would there be any practical reason to do so?

In general, I'm trying to finalize my DVD player purchase decision... If there are any units out there that can upconvert the SD cable channels as well as DVDs, then I would think that would override other considerations. If not, then I think one of the Oppo units is what I'll want - and I will just need to decide if the 970HD, with its USB input and firmware options, would be preferable over the newer 981HD, with (better?) 1080p upconvert capability but no USB in and no component out. Would appreciate any guidance... Thanks!

gonk

01-17-07, 07:48 AM

rosh400

01-17-07, 10:36 AM

1) Could the upconvert technology residing in this and other similar DVD players be used not only to enhance the SD video from a DVD disc, but ALSO to upconvert the many SD channels from a cable provider's lineup? (I know there are no "inputs" on the Oppo units, but if this upconvert capability is technically possible, then are there ANY DVD players out there that do have such an input - and the ability to achieve this?).

upconverting an SD DVD is a combination of delinterlacing DVD output and scaling it to the display's native resolution. The reason why SD DVDs look so much beter than SD TV is that the DVDs are usually a better quality source. Even if an OPPO could upconvert an SD TV source, the end result would in most cases be much worse than DVD because the source it starts with is much lower quality.

homersboy

01-17-07, 10:36 AM

1) While the same hardware could be used, no players currently on the market allow for SD inputs.

2) I'll have to leave the details to others with some experience with the 970HD's USB input to say how well video playback works.

3) I'm not sure what you have in mind for archiving - are you thinking of recording a 720p or 1080i signal from the component output? The big problem there would be what to record to. You could maybe use an HD DVR, or D-VHS, or eventually BD-R, but the recording hardware will either have limited capacity (such as with a hard-drive based DVR) or push you into an expensive format. I don't think there's a practical reason to do so.

Gonk - Thanks for the quick reply...
1) I'm curious: If upconverting does indeed provide such a better PQ for DVD disc playback - and if it could also enhance SD cable signals - then WHY isn't this feature (a digital cable input) offered on upconverting DVD players?... Seems like an awesome marketing opportunity missed (?).... Perhaps another way to upconvert SD cable channels is available that I'm not aware of (being a newbie to HD)
2) Will await other replies to the USB question - thanks.
3) I've read on some DVR forums that there are a couple of possiblitites to expand the hard drive capacity of the popular DVRs (ie; Motorola), either thru direct replacement of the hard drive (cumbersome), or added external drive via the DVR Firewire port. I think I'd be happy to just be able to archive my favorite movies & programs in SD - especially if they can be upconverted (ie; via the Oppo thru the USB port?) when played back. Is anyone on this forum doing this?

Thanks again,
Bart

budk

01-17-07, 10:38 AM

Docray1

01-17-07, 10:43 AM

Not sure about those, but with the latest hacked firmware mine plays HD DVD and BD discs, with full DTS HD decoding to boot. 45's, too. Pretty nice surprize, as you might imagine.

Is this the so-called "0613" hack or is there a newer version? If so, a link would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jack Gilvey

01-17-07, 10:44 AM

Is this the so-called "0613" hack or is there a newer version? If so, a link would be appreciated.

Thanks.

'Twas but a joke, of course. I figured the "45's" part was a dead giveaway, even if someone didn't get the rest. ;)

Docray1

01-17-07, 10:48 AM

'Twas but a joke, of course. I figured the "45's" part was a dead giveaway, even if someone didn't get the rest. ;)

I figured as much, but wanted to sure that some newer 'hack' version wasnt out there somewhere! Thanks.

gonk

01-17-07, 11:11 AM

Gonk - Thanks for the quick reply...
1) I'm curious: If upconverting does indeed provide such a better PQ for DVD disc playback - and if it could also enhance SD cable signals - then WHY isn't this feature (a digital cable input) offered on upconverting DVD players?... Seems like an awesome marketing opportunity missed (?).... Perhaps another way to upconvert SD cable channels is available that I'm not aware of (being a newbie to HD)
Why didn't progressive scan DVD players offer an input to deinterlace SD cable either? There are a couple of very simple reasons that DVD player manufacturers have omitted video inputs. First, DVD transfers generally are better quality than SD cable, satellite, or over-the-air broadcasts, so you have better raw material to work with - no amount of fancy scaling can change a bad video source into an HD-quality picture, and you're much more likely to encounter bad video sources with TV broadcasts than DVD's. That makes the added hardware in the player (and the added cost) less of a benefit. Second (and most importantly), you are asking a DVD player to serve double or even triple duty - first as a DVD player, then as a video scaler, and third as a video or audio/video switcher. Manufacturers would have to add numerous different video (composite and s-video at a minimum) and audio inputs (both stereo analog and coaxial or optical digital) to the player since as soon as the video goes through the display, people are going to want the audio to follow it to simplify switching. Once that's all been added, you need to also add controls to determine which source is active (DVD playback or the input), and all of a sudden you've grafted on a bunch of features that are better located in a receiver or a standalone video scaler. This is one reason that we are starting to see some receivers and surround processors including video scaling capability - they are already the focal point for all of these audio and video signals, making it a more convenient place to locate a shared video scaler. Upconverting DVD players are intended to take care of DVD's. If you want to get a powerful video scaling and deinterlacing solution for all of your sources, you would want to look toward the standalone video scalers that have been around far longer than upconverting or even progressive scan DVD players.
3) I've read on some DVR forums that there are a couple of possiblitites to expand the hard drive capacity of the popular DVRs (ie; Motorola), either thru direct replacement of the hard drive (cumbersome), or added external drive via the DVR Firewire port. I think I'd be happy to just be able to archive my favorite movies & programs in SD - especially if they can be upconverted (ie; via the Oppo thru the USB port?) when played back. Is anyone on this forum doing this?

Thanks again,
Bart
Many DVR's include USB or FireWire ports for the addition of external hard drives. I recently heard about someone who was considering using an external hard drive hooked to the USB input of a DVD player (not the 970HD, but an inexpensive DVD recorder he stumbled across almost by accident the other day) for access to a music library that he already had stored on an external USB hard drive. I think that others are doing similar things for music, but I don't know how many are doing it for video.

wmcclain

01-17-07, 11:14 AM

1) I'm curious: If upconverting does indeed provide such a better PQ for DVD disc playback - and if it could also enhance SD cable signals - then WHY isn't this feature (a digital cable input) offered on upconverting DVD players?... Seems like an awesome marketing opportunity missed (?).... Perhaps another way to upconvert SD cable channels is available that I'm not aware of (being a newbie to HD)

Look here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=37

-Bill

18 is # 1

01-17-07, 12:10 PM

Would someone please email me the firmware hack so that I can get upconverted 720p/1080i via my component connections? I'm wanting to use my 970 with my CRT projector and I am limited to an analog connection.

my email is budkoffler@comcast.net

Thank you.

Bud
The original hack (minus 45's) is:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ebf391/

The Oppo website has instruction for how to install firmware.

Shawn Parr

01-17-07, 12:33 PM

Interesting update.

Some TV's require you to enter the Service Menu to shift the picture. I'm sure that's all it is. The 970 doesn't create a green bar.

Gary

Well according to Oppo:

For a Philips display it is normal to have a bar or a colored bar on the
righside of the display. This is due to the Philips using slightly
different clocking ratios for their HDMI input. Other displays do not
have this issue.

Negative 1, interesting information, if it comes up again I'll definitely give it a try. The Philips TV looked better doing the upconversion than the Oppo did. Although I think it was due to noise reduction, the Oppo looked a bit noisy. Once again we did no calibration for the Oppo though as they already have another DVD player and I didn't want to mess his system up (although I did do the original calibration for him.

Interestingly enough, Oppo also gave me more information on the SVideo issue I'm having:

The S-Video output will not perform a full greyscale due to the inherent
problems with the DAC. This is something the engineers are working
around, but we do not have a solution at this time, as the design of
all of our DVD players has been primarily around the digital video
outputs.

This is very unfortunate for me right now as it will likely be at least summer before I can put together the spare funds for a new TV (this includes my anticipation of price drops).

My family stayed home today as we had a little ice in the rain, and since we live in Louisiana right now that means that the entire region of the state shut down. Schools are canceled, including the university where my wife and I work. As such I haven't had time to calibrate the audio between the Oppo and my Pioneer to properly compare them. Out of the box the Oppo is considerably hotter on the analog outputs than the Pioneer. Since the volume difference can have a large impact on perceived performance I need to level match them on the receiver before I can really compare them. If it does sound better then I have a tough decision to make about whether to keep the Oppo, and if I do will I keep the Pioneer for viewing movies? Aarrgh.

MASidoc

01-17-07, 12:35 PM

<<2) Will await other replies to the USB question - thanks.>>

I think one of the reasons you haven't heard any reply on the USB question is that the USB feature really has limited usefullness. Because it's not 2.0, it is slow, and won't pass an HD-quality photo. Personally, it's use for me would be if someone shows up at my house with a USB flash drive or other memory card, and wants me to load up some music or photos quickly. I know some here have used it successfully for some divx video and certain formats of hard drives--I've used it successfully for music, and somewhat less for photos. My new receiver also has a USB port, which sounds better for the audio, though.

For those on the fence about this player, I think the reasons to get it are:
1. good clean 480i/p signal via HDMI or component which can be scaled by your display, receiver (me), or other external scaler.
2. reasonable quality upconvert (see also: squeeze issue) via HDMI or component (with hack).
3. very-good quality audio including DVD-A and SACD (my personal opinion, YMMV, audiophiles certainly have their own preferences).

But, I don't think the USB or card readers are a huge reason to get this player. I continue to be happy with mine for the three reasons listed above.

Mark

Josh Z

01-17-07, 12:46 PM

1) I'm curious: If upconverting does indeed provide such a better PQ for DVD disc playback - and if it could also enhance SD cable signals - then WHY isn't this feature (a digital cable input) offered on upconverting DVD players?... Seems like an awesome marketing opportunity missed (?).... Perhaps another way to upconvert SD cable channels is available that I'm not aware of (being a newbie to HD)

What you're looking for is a full-service video processor. There are already products on the market that serve that need better than a DVD player could. See the Video Processors forum on this site.

Quank

01-17-07, 12:54 PM

Yikes, my brain hurts. I just scanned all 120 pages of this thread! Great site though, thanks to all of the members for the information.

My TV is from 2000 and is HDTV-Ready so it'll display 1080i, but only has a component input. Because of this, I've been led to the Oppo 970 with the hacked firmware. Mine is currently awaiting stock to ship from Amazon.

The only reason I'm posting is to ask the person that made the "hacked" firmware for compent upscaling to PLEASE look into releasing another updated version, even if it's months from now once the Oppo official firmware gets more finalized. I don't know if it's legal to do so, but I'd like to PayPal anyone that would do such work. I don't think the firmware updates have any End User Agreement so maybe it's NOT illegal however guns don't have End User Agreements but it's easy to break the law with them too! ;)

I was an early adopter to HDTV and like many others, I feel a bit punished for not replacing my perfectly working TV with one that has an HDMI input on it. I will upgrade this TV in a few years and send it off to the "family room" for kids movies and the like, but until then, the Oppo 970 will be the perfect companion to it (assuming I can get a firmware that has a few wrinkles work out and enables 1080i over component!)

That's it. No questions, just thanks and "pleas" to the kind soul who put out the hacked firmware to do another release. ;)

QUANK

Davidt1

01-17-07, 01:01 PM

18 is # 1

01-17-07, 01:15 PM

I have tried the USB port and the card reader. I found them very useful. I can download pictures or movie clips to my flash drive and just plug it the 970 to review the contents. Frankly, I am tired of hearing excuses for Oppo. They could have included USB 2.0, display dimmer and auto-off, and a better remote control. But they chose not to. The 970 could have been the greatest dvd player ever (for the price), but instead it became the average jack of all trade that it is.
If it is only average, why did you buy it? :rolleyes:

Davidt1

01-17-07, 01:31 PM

I didn't know it's average before I bought it. You could say that the hypes steered me to it.

CCLAY

01-17-07, 02:34 PM

They could have included USB 2.0, display dimmer and auto-off, and a better remote control. But they chose not to. The 970 could have been the greatest dvd player ever (for the price), but instead it became the average jack of all trade that it is.

Comments like this never cease to amaze me. We're talking about an upscaling DVD player with a pretty darn good proccessing chip in it for 150 bucks for cryin' out loud. You want more features, buy a more expensive player. There's bunches of them out there.

Chris

Quank

01-17-07, 02:37 PM

I was just asked via PM by someone why I would want an updated hacked firmware. I probably wasn't too clear in my original post, so here is what I replied just to better state what I was going for:
The hacked firmware that you have (I'm assuming we have the same one) is based on an older version of the official Oppo firmware. Since then, they have released several more offical firmwares that fixed a few bugs with the player. But because the "hack" is based on the older firmware, using the hack will not allow you the bug fixes. All I'm really asking (easy for me to say!) is that the same person release a new "hack" based on current firmware from Oppo so that I'll get the hack AND get the recent features/bug fixes.

The current hacked firmware I have is 613AMOD.iso. I'm sure I'm not the only person eagerly awaiting this, but I'd be more than willing to wait until Oppo slows down on the updates so that someone didn't have to keep re-doing their work.

moxie1617

01-17-07, 02:37 PM

............. You could say that the hypes steered me to it.

And it's our fault. :confused:

jomari

01-17-07, 03:36 PM

in its defense, oppo has been shootin out a good number of players out to the market, with better results than the other players double the price. science proves it on their website, as also third party companies who bench tested em. for 150 clams, this is definitely NOT your average jack of all trade dvd player. they have come out with quality dvd players, and great support services (which i cant find too often with bigger companies) when it comes to certain problems. unlike pioneer's dvd player (i forgot the model number) you have to end up sueing someone to get it fixed.

18 is # 1

01-17-07, 05:41 PM

Does the 613AMOD negate the upgrade of newer firmware offerings (SACD issues etc...)? Can't they just learn to live together in peace???? :(

Shawn Parr

01-17-07, 05:51 PM

Okay, for those interested I did come up with some time to do some analysis of the Oppo 970 vs my Pioneer 578. I have not sat down to do serious listening, so don't take any of this as my final opinion. What I did do was sit down with a borrowed Phonic PAA3 RTA (real time analyzer). I hooked the Pioneer and Oppo to the CD and Aux inputs respectively on my Outlaw 1070 receiver, and set both to Bypass which makes for a totally analog connection via the receiver, no processing. After getting results I swapped the inputs to ensure that there was no coloration occurring due to slightly different circuitry in the Outlaw. I'm pretty darn sure the two were identical.

I'm going to show you the result shortly, but first for those that don't have experience with an RTA: it takes measurements in real time, and pink noise was used for the tests for consistency. Pink noise by nature has a bit of fluctuation to it, so very small differences are not to be sweated in these photos as likely if you were live in the room the meters would fluctuate a bit and it would average out. We are looking for larger differences.

Here are the images:

Images removed, please see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9505535&&#post9505535).

Please read the post as it explains why the following is not correct.

Notice first off that the Pioneer is about 1dB lower in output than the Oppo. Not really a big deal, but interesting. This was with the Oppo's internal volume maximized which, according to Oppo, minimizes the use of DSP on the signal.

Originally I thought the Oppo was louder, turns out it just has significantly louder bass frequencies. If you look at the Pioneer charts, you can see it starts to roll off just below 100hz. Now check the Oppo: while the frequencies below 100hz taper similarly, they are significantly higher in volume, and there is a rebound around 31hz.

All in all that looks very good for the Oppo. I can see how some would consider the bass to be weak, as there is a roll off, but the Pioneer definitely is suffering from a much more exaggerated bass loss.

All in all this makes my life difficult, as with the video issues I'm having I would prefer not to watch movies on it at this time (for those just tuning in, this only effects the S-Video and composite, Component and HDMI are fine). But I definitely want to listen to music on it...

I tried doing a comparative listen to SACD vs CD by changing the settings on the Oppo for which SACD section it reads, however I only have done it with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album and the mixes are considerably different. As such there is no way to honestly compare whether the SACD technology is better, or just the mix. The SACD section did sound better on that disk though.

Was that too much information for most? :D

EDIT: added labels for the images.

EDIT2: For larger versions of these images see my gallery: http://www.shawnparr.com/v/tech/opporta/

StinDaWg

01-18-07, 01:13 AM

I have tried the USB port and the card reader. I found them very useful. I can download pictures or movie clips to my flash drive and just plug it the 970 to view the contents. Frankly, I am tired of hearing excuses for Oppo. They could have included USB 2.0, display dimmer and auto-off, and a better remote control. But they chose not to. The 970 could have been the greatest dvd player ever (for the price), but instead it became the average jack of all trade that it is.
This player is hardly average. For the $119 I paid for it my unconverted movies look "near" HD quality. I don't know which was a better value this or my 32" lcd I paid $470 for. Blows my 480p Phillips player out of the water. It's not even close.

GSB

01-18-07, 03:05 AM

Okay, for those interested I did come up with some time to do some analysis of the Oppo 970 vs my Pioneer 578... Interesting post.

Gary

Shawn Parr

01-18-07, 10:48 AM

Sometimes you are hit by inspiration first thing in the morning, right before you awake from sleep. Turns out that while I though I had both players configured exactly the same, the Pioneer was doing bass management, which since it was plugged into a stereo set of inputs the sub output was not connected. First off two more graphs:

http://www.shawnparr.com/gallery2/d/7651-2/New+Pioneer+Reading.png
New Pioneer Reading

http://www.shawnparr.com/gallery2/d/7648-2/New+Oppo+Reading.png
New Oppo Reading

In this set of readings for all intents and purposes they are similar. Maximum deviation is about 3dB in any band.

I've had the Pioneer 'forget' settings on me before, but it is pretty rare that it happens, and this one very easily could have been operator error while trying to get settings and wrangle family at the same time.

Interestingly the Pioneer doesn't seem to crossover with the usual 4th order filter. It seems to only follow a loose 1st order filter down to 40hz, but then seems to taper off a bit and pass signal within about 5dB of where it would without the crossover. With a 1st order crossover it should be down about 12dB at 20hz, with a 4th order it should be down 48dB at 20hz.

I'll remove the graphs from above as they are misleading and take up a lot of space, however they will remain on my gallery site if anyone wants to look at them again.

Today I will do some quality listening since school is in session for both my son and my wife. Right now I think I'm going to keep the Pioneer for viewing and the Oppo for listening and dealing with 'different' formats like Divx, etc. When I finally get that TV upgrade then I will dump the Pioneer.

Quank

01-18-07, 11:14 AM

All firmware overwrites other firmware. It's a total replacement type thing and not a "patch" that's applied over any stock firmware. Anytime you apply any firmware to a device, it first erases the existing firmware and then installs.

Does the 613AMOD negate the upgrade of newer firmware offerings (SACD issues etc...)? Can't they just learn to live together in peace???? :(

rosh400

01-19-07, 09:02 AM

Just finished reading the 3638 posts. Actually I read considerably fewer having skipped most of the posts dealing with audio. I will be investing in a squeezebox someday and will just stream audio from ripped CDs from my PC but that's a different story.

I have a Sony 46e2000 rear projection 3LCD HDTV (720p) with a viewing distance of 9 to 10 feet. We really like the set. Good HD broadcasts (Discovery Theater HD) yield a wonderful image. Sports in HD are also excellent on this display. My current DVD player is actually a JVC combo DVD/VCR. It served its purpose on our 15 year old SD Sony 27inch Trinitron but I find that the image on the new Sony HDTV to be a soft. As a result, I decided to invest in a new DVD player.

I will not purchase a high definition model until the format wars sort out. My feeling trowards the consumer electronics and film indsutries right now is a pox on both your houses. So the issue becomes which player should I purchase if I don't want to spend more than $250. My primary use will be purchased and rented DVDs. DivX, SACD, et al are not a requirement.

Last week, I purchased the Sony DVP-NS75H from Costco. I figured I could test it out and if I was not satisfied, I could easily return it. If I was overwhelmingly pleased with it, I could stop my search. I decided not to start with Oppo because returning it is more of a hassle. I connected the sony via HDMI and calibrated using getgray. Compared to the JVC, black levels and shadow detail are better, color is better, audio is better, but the picture is not much sharper and overall, I could not see much of a difference when comparing the same scenes. Last Sunday, we watched Glory Road on the Sony and I was very pleased with the picture quality. Good detail and film like quality. Before I sent the movie back to Netflix, I should have played selected scenes on the JVD to compare but I forgot. At this point, howver, I am not overwhelmed with the Sony so I want to give OPPO a shot but I have a number of questions.

The first batch relates to the 970 and the vertical compression. I don't really care about thin horizontal lines but I do care about distortions in aspect ratio. According to getgray, my set overscans by about 2 percent. Oppo says that overcanning compensates for the compression. To an extent I understand that. It would compensate by elminating the horizontal lines but would it eliminate aspect ratio distortion. If overscaning was just occurring vertically, yes it would, but the set overscans both vertically and horizontally. Therefore while the overscan would eliminate the horizontal black lines for 1.78:1 content, it would not compensate for the aspect ratio distortion. Is this correct? If so, what are my current options. I could set resolution to 480p and let my set scale but would I not be missing out on one of the key features of the Oppo - it's scaling capability? Second, I could use the beta firmware update but some of the posts say that on test patterns there is a noticeable loss of resolution but it is unclear if this is noticeable when viewing real world content. Would it even be noticeable on test patterns given the size of my display and my viewing distance? Third, hope for a better firmware upgrade that fixes the compression without loss of resolution. How likely is this to happen.

The second batch deal with the best Oppo player for me. Intially I was leaning towards the 970 (great reviews, low cost) but Neuromancer thought that the image looked too "digital." Do you mean that the image does not look natural, that it looks overly sharp? I am looking for film like quality but I do not want to sacrifice details. If in the original film, I can see a blade of grass, I would like the player to produce an image that shows the blade of grass. Neuromancer also stated that his primary player is the 981 because produces a more film-like image due to the superior deinterlacing and video processing. I want film-like but not an image that is soft. Will the 971 or 981 yield an image that is film-like but sufficiently detailed? If so, will the 971 suffice? Are there any problems with using the DVI to HDMI conversion except for needing separate audio cables? Are there any HDCP problems? IS MB an issue with rear projection 3LCD sets? More importantly, is Oppo still producing the 971? Their site says it is out of stock with no date for future shipments. Has the 981 replaced it? If so, would the 981 be worth the additional $80 over the 970 given my display, it's size, resolution, and my viewing distance?

Sorry about this long post but I would really like your thoughts and input. Thanks in advance for your responses?

18 is # 1

01-19-07, 11:25 AM

rosh400

01-19-07, 11:39 AM

Rosh,
If you have HDMI and are prmarily interested in video ( not playing exotic audio formats) then get the 981. I chose the 970 because I needed to reserve my HDMI input for my DVR.
Try it and send it back if you are not happy. Do it soon so you can examine it and the Sony side by side. Forget the technical issues...let your eyes decide! :p

Thanks Fortunately I do have some time because I purchased the Sony from Costco with their customer friendly forever return policy.

The rest of you, please feel free to chime in.

StinDaWg

01-19-07, 12:04 PM

rosh400

01-19-07, 02:38 PM

Just placed an order for a refurbed 970. Very interesting to note what I was told about MB. It not only affects DLPs. It tends to be an issue for all rear projection sets. Given my technology, screen size, and seating distance, Henry from tech support thought the 970 would be my best bet. Should be here by next Friday which is my next day off. I will post my comments as soon as I have a chance. Thanks to all posters on this thread who have provided a wealth of information.

StinDaWg

01-19-07, 06:55 PM

SteveSatch

01-19-07, 07:33 PM

Quank, do you have a Pioneer 643 TV set?

Quank

01-19-07, 08:23 PM

Quank, do you have a Pioneer 643 TV set?

Nope. I have a Sony KP-53HS10, 4:3, CRT RPTV, HD.

Tempus

01-20-07, 12:02 PM

I'm trying to calibrate with DVE, and when I go to the DVD Pluge w/Greyscale (12 - 1) I do not see any of the pluge at all. I'm not just talking about the blacker than black outer bars, but the inner 4% and 2% bars are not there either. I know I have seen the 2% and 4% bars with my Pioneer, so the Outlaw and TV are capable of passing those (as anything should be able to). The Pioneer wasn't passing BTB via the S-Video for me so I don't know if the Outlaw would have clipped that or not. I had an older Sony DVD with this TV that did pass BTB so I know that the TV will display it.Can I really be the only person using this with 480i out of the S-Video? No one here seems to be able to confirm or deny whether this is normal or not, and everything I have found via Google only seems to show testing via the component or HDMI. I guess I'm just a freak. ;)So apparently this is just how the Oppo works. I'll continue to talk to Oppo to see if there is something I can do, and I hope there is, but for the time being the lack of detail in dark areas is pretty annoying.
I've been silently following your ordeal, and the mystery is greater than you think. You see, I am the other person using S-Video with an Oppo 970, because my HDTV (LG 37LC2D) won't decode closed captioning on the HDMI or component inputs, leaving S-Video as the best remaining option when watching a DVD that has closed captioning, but no subtitles. I also have DVE, and when I put up PLUGE (Which isn't 12-1, but rather 12-2, as 12-1 is the blue introduction screen for title 12), I see everything. You heard that right. For me, the 970 is delivering all the vertical bars, including BTB. For this test, I unplugged the HDMI cable from the 970 before turning it on, and then I set the HDMI setting to 480i, to mirror your situation.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you've tried turning the TV's brightness way up, as anyone with DVE already knows to do this. So now we are left with the burning question "Why?" Why am I getting BTB, and you are not even getting the 4% bar?

jmilliron

01-20-07, 12:49 PM

Never mind, found the problem.

Quank

01-20-07, 12:55 PM

Having a little trouble with my 970HD, not getting any audio out of it. Used to have it setup to output via optical to my Onkyo receiver. Worked great until the receiver died.

No problem, I'll just grab some RCA cables and hook the mixed output up to the TV, right? Just something to hold me over until I upgrade my whole system in a few months. Problem is, I'm not getting any audio now. Tried a few different cables and tried known working RCA inputs on the TV.

I've looked through the manual and scanned the forums but haven't found anything of use yet. Any ideas?

I hate to ask this but am only doing it because I've done this before: Do you have the internal speakers turned off on the TV since you used to use your receiver for all audio?

jmilliron

01-20-07, 01:07 PM

Problem was that the volume from the dvd player was much, much lower then other sources I had hooked up to the TV. Even though I had the volume turned way up on the Oppo.

/shrug

Shawn Parr

01-20-07, 04:27 PM

I'm going to go ahead and assume you've tried turning the TV's brightness way up, as anyone with DVE already knows to do this. So now we are left with the burning question "Why?" Why am I getting BTB, and you are not even getting the 4% bar?

Really?? Yes, I tried boosting both the brightness on the TV and on the Oppo, and both together. I've even popped in a THX movie and in the Optimizer the THX logo does not even appear.

Okay, I've also had some issues with a couple of CD's, one of which I assumed was a bad CD because when I replaced it the problem went away. The issue was distortion, out of both the analog and digital jacks, even when I turned it down there was distortion (although the distortion was quieter ;) ).

Now I'm going to have to call them on Monday to try to get a straight answer on this. Maybe since it is a B-stock it happens to be a bad unit. I might have better luck with another one, or maybe I should look into a 981, although they are out of stock from what I understand.

Right now the SACD and CD playback out of the analog jacks sounds a bit harsh, very edgy in the high end. That may actually be a part of the distortion issue as I mentioned above, it could be very lightly distorting in the high-mid range not enough to hear full on digital clipping, but enough to make it sound edgy.

Tempus

01-20-07, 06:52 PM

Really?? Yes, I tried boosting both the brightness on the TV and on the Oppo, and both together. I've even popped in a THX movie and in the Optimizer the THX logo does not even appear.I am at a loss to explain the difference between your 970 and mine. If it helps, I can tell you my firmware version. When I press the OSD key with the tray open it says "Mver:05.00.01.07 Batch:3A-0919". It was purchased direct from Oppo less than a month ago.

Okay, I've also had some issues with a couple of CD's, one of which I assumed was a bad CD because when I replaced it the problem went away. The issue was distortion, out of both the analog and digital jacks, even when I turned it down there was distortion (although the distortion was quieter ;) ).In general, when you read digital data off of a disc and maintain it in digital form right up until you output it over a digital interconnect, distortion should NOT happen. This leads me to suspect that it is that the laser itself was having trouble reading the disc, and that the distortion was actually the 970 failing in its attempt to reconstruct the missing data, but that's just a guess.

Now I'm going to have to call them on Monday to try to get a straight answer on this. Maybe since it is a B-stock it happens to be a bad unit. I might have better luck with another one, or maybe I should look into a 981, although they are out of stock from what I understand.I am curious to see how this story ends.

Right now the SACD and CD playback out of the analog jacks sounds a bit harsh, very edgy in the high end. That may actually be a part of the distortion issue as I mentioned above, it could be very lightly distorting in the high-mid range not enough to hear full on digital clipping, but enough to make it sound edgy.I'm far from being one of the "golden ear" crowd, so I can't really help you, here. I encode my music as Ogg/Vorbis files at quality 2 (about 92kbps), and still can't hear the difference between them and the original CDs. I got a 2GB Kingston SD card for use with the 970, and loaded it with about 24 hours of music, and it only uses half the available space. I just leave the SD card in the 970's reader, so whenever I just want some music, I can put it on shuffle and forget about it. :D

Shawn Parr

01-21-07, 01:42 AM

In general, when you read digital data off of a disc and maintain it in digital form right up until you output it over a digital interconnect, distortion should NOT happen. This leads me to suspect that it is that the laser itself was having trouble reading the disc, and that the distortion was actually the 970 failing in its attempt to reconstruct the missing data, but that's just a guess.

You're telling me! I was shocked when it happened. Theoretically if a buffer of some sort is getting corrupted it could cause it, but who knows. So far it happened on one CD that I happen to have multiple copies of (I was a producer for the album) and it was extreme. When I grabbed another copy it was fine.

Today I was listening to a new CD that I just got from Amazon and it played fine the first time, but I played it a second time and I could hear light distortion happening in some sections. This time around it was very light distortion so my wife, who is as far as golden ears as it gets (at least she can tell when music is playing and when it is stopped), could not hear it. She was the only other set of ears around at the time though, besides my 5 year old son who wouldn't have understood the question. :)

As far as the firmware goes, this unit had an older firmware (don't remember the number, sorry) and I have tried both 3A-0916 which is the latest official firmware, and 4A-1220 which is the latest beta for SACD features. Different firmwares did not affect the pluge issues, but since the distortion issue has been intermittent so far I have not tried different firmwares to solve that. All those instances had the 4A-1220 firmware.

I'm curious since your player passes pluge if Oppo just doesn't want me to return the player and so they fed me a line. From what I've heard here and elsewhere that seems unlikely but you never know. At this point I might even be willing to spend the extra to get an A-stock rather than a B-stock if it will pass pluge and not sound as harsh. I'll have to wait until Monday to find out what my options might be.

Tempus

01-21-07, 07:04 AM

As far as the firmware goes, this unit had an older firmware (don't remember the number, sorry) and I have tried both 3A-0916 which is the latest official firmware, and 4A-1220 which is the latest beta for SACD features. Different firmwares did not affect the pluge issues, but since the distortion issue has been intermittent so far I have not tried different firmwares to solve that. All those instances had the 4A-1220 firmware.Wait...if 3A-0916 is the latest official firmware, why did mine come from the factory with 3A-0919 on it? Also, how can I determine what has changed between 3A-0916 and 3A-0919? Furthermore, is it possible that 3A-0919 is responsible for the ability to pass BTB?

I'm curious since your player passes pluge if Oppo just doesn't want me to return the player and so they fed me a line. From what I've heard here and elsewhere that seems unlikely but you never know. At this point I might even be willing to spend the extra to get an A-stock rather than a B-stock if it will pass pluge and not sound as harsh. I'll have to wait until Monday to find out what my options might be.Well, if it helps, I believe I have all the picture setting at the defaults, because I thought it more proper to adjust the picture with the TV's controls.

joelgee

01-21-07, 08:43 AM

I have a curiosity.
I also have a 970HD hooked up to a Sony KV32HS420 via HDMI. Recently, I requested, received, and installed the Oppo firmware that deals with the compression issue at 720p and 1080i. I believe the technical term is the SPE (Squashy People Effect).
After some experimenting and a conversation w/Oppo customer service, I determined that I had to tell my Oppo that I had a 16x9 screen. When I do that, my DVDs look great EXCEPT for a couple.
This is where the curiosity rears its head.
Over the past few days, I fed the 970HD "Deep Impact" and "Mimic."
With settings set as above, I got the SPE but only w/these two DVDs. When I tell the 970HD that I want 4x3 letterbox and set the HDMI to 480p, these two look just fine.
I'm just curious as to why these two, and so far only these two, don't play well with the Oppo firmware upgrade.
I talked to an Oppo guy and he was perplexed.
Anybody want to make an informed guess or provide any insight? It's not a major deal, but I am curious.
Thanks.
Joel

wmcclain

01-21-07, 09:21 AM

Over the past few days, I fed the 970HD "Deep Impact" and "Mimic."
With settings set as above, I got the SPE but only w/these two DVDs.

I don't have the 970 so I'm a bit in the dark, but looking here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120647/dvd
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119675/dvd

...it looks those two titles might be 4:3 letterboxed. Could you be seeing a difference in the way anamorphic and non-anamorphic titles are played?

-Bill

joelgee

01-21-07, 09:30 AM

Jim Hef

01-21-07, 10:01 AM

...if 3A-0916 is the latest official firmware, why did mine come from the factory with 3A-0919 on it?....
This was covered several pages ago...both are the same firmware, just different numbering sequences.

Quank

01-21-07, 10:16 AM

I encode my music as Ogg/Vorbis files at quality 2 (about 92kbps), and still can't hear the difference between them and the original CDs. I got a 2GB Kingston SD card for use with the 970, and loaded it with about 24 hours of music, and it only uses half the available space. I just leave the SD card in the 970's reader, so whenever I just want some music, I can put it on shuffle and forget about it. :D

The 970 plays Ogg Vorbis?

primetimeguy

01-21-07, 10:16 AM

wmcclain

01-21-07, 10:20 AM

Bill--
You got me. I don't understand the "4:3 letterboxed" reference. Deep is 2.35:1 widescreen letterboxed and Mimic is 1.85:1 widescreen letterboxed. These are both older titles. Other than that, I'm trying to figure what else they may have in common.
J

This is a bit of ugliness in DVD history. The standard supports two aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Obviously the former is fine for old 1.33:1 titles and the latter is better for widescreen titles.

However, some widescreen titles (especially in the early years, but it still happens) were authored as 4:3 discs, meaning the 2.35:1 or 1.85:1 image displays within a 4:3 aperture. Black bars above and below are part of the image encoding. Ideally all widescreen titles should be anamorphic, meaning a 1.78:1 title has no black bars encoded in the image. Wider titles will still have smaller black bars.

Here is a more detailed article: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/index.html

"Widescreen letterboxed" sounds non-anamorphic to me. The way to be sure is to examine the disc with computer software used for "backups". Or: the 981 has a disc browser feature which will show whether the title is 4:3 or 16:9; I don't know about the 970.

Again, I don't know whether this is the source of your problem, but it is one thing which your weird discs may have in common. Widescreen discs are not all equal: they can be sorted into two piles.

-Bill

joelgee

01-21-07, 10:22 AM

Okay. I guess that does make sense. When I toss in a DVD, I'll check the box to see whether it's enhanced for widescreen.
Props to primetimeguy and Bill for clearing this up for me.
J

Tempus

01-21-07, 07:27 PM

The 970 plays Ogg Vorbis?Indeed it does. I didn't know this when I ordered it, but once I got it, I wanted to test the USB port, so I threw some MP3s on a USB flash drive, and also threw on one Ogg file, for the heck of it. Imagine my shock when it recognized and played the Ogg file.

eap_44

01-21-07, 08:14 PM

hey guys, i just bought a new 970HD and there are some divx files that will not play in this unit but will play in my philips 642 and vice versa. is this normal? in oppo everytime i tried playing this divx file it will just show black screen on my TV but the lcd in oppo is counting. i need to turn off the player and turn it back on otherwise it will just be black on my TV.

did i get a defective unit?

SomeCiscoGuy

01-21-07, 08:18 PM

I see some have tried WMA with good success on the 970, but has anyone tried to playback WMA Lossless files? I've ordered a 970 and would like to know if anyone has tried WMA Lossless or if anyone has encountered any bitrate limitations using WMA or Ogg.

Thanks

SCG

Jack Caynon

01-21-07, 09:01 PM

I received a refurbished 970hd unit from Oppo to replace a brand new one I bought in December which had the same sync problem. It appeared to show up in both units after I started the units with Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad DVD-Audio disc in them. I've tried unplugging the units, turning them on after the projector is on, turning them on when the projector is off and nothing works to fix the intermittent sync problem The picture is fine for a good 30 seconds, then it flashes out of sync, then returns to sync for 30 seconds. This occurs even if no disc is in the unit. Now my unit is hooked up from the HDMI output into the DVI input on a Lumagen HDP video processor/scaler, so there shouldn't be HDCP handshake problems. Do you guys have a theory about what's wrong?

Jack

muad'dib

01-22-07, 12:32 AM

I had the 970, replaced it with the 981 , and what a misstake!!! :eek: :eek:

I have the sony SXRD 55" rear projection.. With the 981 almost every scene, I could see me MB problem.. Picture was awesome (sharp and colourful), but that MB was just too much..

When I had the 970, picture was perfect, no MB..

So MB does seem to effect LCD and DLP rear projections as stated.. Oh well, must reorder a new 970..

I'm very sad about this, as the look of the 981 (black, with blue display), just looked so awesome..

Hope this helps ... I hate MB!!!! :cool:

Just placed an order for a refurbed 970. Very interesting to note what I was told about MB. It not only affects DLPs. It tends to be an issue for all rear projection sets. Given my technology, screen size, and seating distance, Henry from tech support thought the 970 would be my best bet. Should be here by next Friday which is my next day off. I will post my comments as soon as I have a chance. Thanks to all posters on this thread who have provided a wealth of information.

digitalman42

01-22-07, 02:21 AM

I read in the faq that 720p/1080i res you get a reduced screen, has that been fixed? im thinking about buying a dvd upconversion player looking at this one and the sony. I want a Region free, divx playing if possible, and one that has good pq, anyone know what looks better between this 970hd and the sony 75h??

samijubal

01-22-07, 12:56 PM

gonk

01-22-07, 01:31 PM

I've got pictures of the inside of a beta sample 981HD in my 981HD review (http://www.prillaman.net/oppo981_review.html) that might be of interest to you. The 970HD may not sue the exact same disc drive, but it should at least be extremely similar. You could also e-mail OPPO's customer service - I've found them to be very knowledgeable.

18 is # 1

01-22-07, 02:07 PM

softballhead

01-22-07, 02:18 PM

Looking to trade my 1 year old DV971 for a 970. Excellent condition. Willing to do even trade for 970 in same condition. I love the player but my Samsung DLP does not. (Macroblocking)

gonk

01-22-07, 02:22 PM

Gonk,
Does it sound better when the cat cleans the outputs first?? :rolleyes:
:) - That particular cat considers himself the inspector of all boxes and box-like objects, and if the boxes hold still long enough he considers them to be his new perches. He's probably sat on top of the box for each new home theater gadget I've brought in the door over the last five years, and given the chance he's at least sniffed at the devices stored within. I don't know that I'd classify him as an audio or video tweak, though - no measurable impact on sound quality. ;)

His buddy, on the other hand, is an excellent means of testing structural strength for components (http://www.prillaman.net/cyrus25.html). All I have to do is leave them on the floor for a little while and he'll probably sit on them and scowl as commentary on their intrusion into his space. As a general rule, I don't invite that test for components that I don't know can take the 20+ pounds. Fortunately my subwoofer (about the only thing that he can readily sit on) is unphased by the attention since he has accepted it.

We now returned to our regularly scheduled discussion of DVD players...

samijubal

01-22-07, 03:21 PM

I've got pictures of the inside of a beta sample 981HD in that might be of interest to you. The 970HD may not sue the exact same disc drive, but it should at least be extremely similar. You could also e-mail OPPO's customer service - I've found them to be very knowledgeable.

The spindle motor isn't visable from any of those pics. I did call Oppo, I talked to 4 different people, the last one telling me it was a DC motor. I have doubts that a DC motor will fit in a player that's only 1 5/8 inches high. It wouldn't be the first time I was given the wrong info about a product.

primetimeguy

01-22-07, 03:45 PM

Has anyone opened an Oppo player and seen the spindle motor? Is it direct drive or a DC brush motor? I'm very interested in buying one of their players, but don't want a DC motor. I use my player too much for a cheapo DC motor.

If they don't use a DC motor what would they use? Direct drive vs DC motor doesn't seem like an apples-to-apples comparison. Shouldn't it be DC motor vs something else and direct drive vs belt drive for example?

samijubal

01-22-07, 05:34 PM

If they don't use a DC motor what would they use? Direct drive vs DC motor doesn't seem like an apples-to-apples comparison. Shouldn't it be DC motor vs something else and direct drive vs belt drive for example?

There's no belt drive DVD players. They all use either a DC brush motor, or the far superior direct drive brushless motor. In a player that costs $150-$230, I'd expect a DD motor. I've seen them in $30 cheapos before.

escon

01-22-07, 05:42 PM

There's no belt drive DVD players. They all use either a DC brush motor, or the far superior direct drive brushless motor. In a player that costs $150-$230, I'd expect a DD motor. I've seen them in $30 cheapos before.
In fact I've not come across a DC brush motor for quite a while. They're noisy both acoustically and electrically. The Oppo I have - the 971H - is dead quiet on both counts, so I have no doubt that it's the standard direct drive brushless DC motor. A friend of mine has the 970 and when I hear it play, it's also dead quiet - I'd be very very surprised if the two players didn't share the same drive. Don't confuse the speed up and slow down noises with the brush vs brushless designs. The brushed motor will always be audible once it's reached its steady speed, whereas the brushless motor will be virtually inaudible.

Unclechewy

01-22-07, 05:52 PM

I just purchased the player a week ago and I don't want to have to shrink and re-burn all my movies. Will someone be kind enough to email me the 613amod.iso hack ? Many thanks.

primetimeguy

01-22-07, 06:04 PM

There's no belt drive DVD players. They all use either a DC brush motor, or the far superior direct drive brushless motor. In a player that costs $150-$230, I'd expect a DD motor. I've seen them in $30 cheapos before.

Ok, I just didn't understand what you meant by direct drive. So you are talking brushed vs brushless DC motor which makes sense.

samijubal

01-22-07, 07:11 PM

In fact I've not come across a DC brush motor for quite a while. They're noisy both acoustically and electrically. The Oppo I have - the 971H - is dead quiet on both counts, so I have no doubt that it's the standard direct drive brushless DC motor. A friend of mine has the 970 and when I hear it play, it's also dead quiet - I'd be very very surprised if the two players didn't share the same drive. Don't confuse the speed up and slow down noises with the brush vs brushless designs. The brushed motor will always be audible once it's reached its steady speed, whereas the brushless motor will be virtually inaudible.

I'd be surprised if they are DC motors too, but that's what Oppo told me they were. I've never seen a DC motor in a player that's only 1 5/8 inches high, I don't think it would fit.

samijubal

01-22-07, 08:39 PM

Do the players hold custom picture settings? Like user 1, 2, etc.

18 is # 1

01-22-07, 09:33 PM

I just purchased the player a week ago and I don't want to have to shrink and re-burn all my movies. Will someone be kind enough to email me the 613amod.iso hack ? Many thanks.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/ebf391/

This hack (613AMOD) is for component cable upscaled output, not compression. The firmware fix for that is on the Oppo website.

Tempus

01-22-07, 09:55 PM

I'd be surprised if they are DC motors too, but that's what Oppo told me they were. I've never seen a DC motor in a player that's only 1 5/8 inches high, I don't think it would fit.
Well, if it's not a DC motor, my guess is that it's an internal combustion engine. :D

eap_44

01-22-07, 10:13 PM

http://www.filefactory.com/file/ebf391/

This hack (613AMOD) is for component cable upscaled output, not compression. The firmware fix for that is on the Oppo website.

I just downloaded the file but before doing any firmware upgrade which one is the latest firmware version... 3A-0916 or the 1A-0613AMOD? right now i have 3A-0919 which according to OPPO is the same as 3A-0916.

gonk

01-22-07, 10:51 PM

skipsterut

01-22-07, 11:06 PM

I just downloaded the file but before doing any firmware upgrade which one is the latest firmware version... 3A-0916 or the 1A-0613AMOD? right now i have 3A-0919 which according to OPPO is the same as 3A-0916.
Where is the firmware that fixes the compression problem on the Oppo web site? I just went there and all I see is the following info about downloads. Is the compression fix built into the beta version 4A-1220, but just not mentioned in the Summary of Changes?.

Latest Version: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 3A-0916, 3A-0919
Release Date: September 22, 2006
(The above three batch numbers are equivalent firmware releases used at different stages of production.)

Summary of Changes in This Release:

Improved HDMI Audio Compatibility and High Resolution Audio Output through HDMI
Easier Track Skip for SACD and Digital Music Playback
New Default Contrast Setting for Component Video Output (Same as 1A-0613 Beta Firmware)
Improved DVD-Audio Disc Compatibility
Improved DivX and Xvid IDX+SUB Subtitle Support
Enhanced Power-on Response Time

Previous Version: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 1A-0526
Release Date: May 31, 2006

Summary of Changes in This Release:

This firmware version is the initial public release for the OPPO DV-970HD Universal DVD Player with HDMI and High Definition Up-Conversion. It is already pre-installed in all units shipped on or after the release date.

Beta Test Version: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 4A-1220
Release Date: December 26, 2006
Status: Public beta test. This release is still a beta test version, not an official release. Use it only if you would like to experiment with the new features and improvements. There is a chance of the new features and improvements not working properly. If that happens, please update your DVD player back to the previous official firmware release.

Summary of Changes in This Release:

Super Audio CD (SACD) Gapless Playback
Super Audio CD (SACD) Track Number Display

eap_44

01-22-07, 11:27 PM

The 0613MOD is not an official firmware - it is based on an older firmware and has been hacked to disable HDCP and allow component upconversion of copy-protected discs. The 3A-0916 (or 0919 if you bought a player recently and got the firmware pre-installed) is the latest official firmware.

Do you think this will also solve my problem on some of my divx files using the modded firmware? lately i've been having some issues with the way this unit handles divx files. after selecting the divx file, it only shows black screen on my tv but the same file can be played using my philips dvd player. Which one do you prefer... 3A-0916 or this modded firmware?

Does anyone also experiencing this type of issue?

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 12:10 AM

Where is the firmware that fixes the compression problem on the Oppo web site?

It is not on the website. You will need to contact OPPO directly through e-mail or have a member of the forums send it to you.

Shawn Parr

01-23-07, 12:11 AM

In my ongoing saga:

I called Oppo today and talked to two different people. Both claim that the 970 is hardware incapable as it is to pass Pluge patterns over the S-Video connection. The second person I talked with was the person who originally answered my support email and actually did the testing in-house with some 970s to confirm. I'm a bit confused how Tempus has a 970 that can pass BTB & Pluge when Oppo says that the hardware just can not do it.

On the CD distortion issue, they immediately asked me to return the unit for them to test. The also asked if I could include a CD that shows the problem more clearly than usual. Since the issue so far has been intermittent I'm not sure how this will go. Both times the issue occurred I had been playing music for a while (several hours), so maybe it is heat related. I'm going to try to cause the issue again tomorrow before boxing the player up to send it back.

I have been really trying hard to justify keeping the player, going quite above and beyond. I'm starting to think maybe I should just call it a loss. Not that the player isn't great for most people, but in my situation it is causing more problems than it was originally purchased to solve.

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 12:13 AM

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 12:20 AM

In my ongoing saga:

I called Oppo today and talked to two different people. Both claim that the 970 is hardware incapable as it is to pass Pluge patterns over the S-Video connection. The second person I talked with was the person who originally answered my support email and actually did the testing in-house with some 970s to confirm. I'm a bit confused how Tempus has a 970 that can pass BTB & Pluge when Oppo says that the hardware just can not do it.

It does not support BTB over S-Video. This is a defect of the chipset used on the DV-970HD. I can personally attest to this. Component will pass BTB, but even that can be shady depending on how it is used (for example, BTB does not work if I go through a VP30).

On the CD distortion issue, they immediately asked me to return the unit for them to test.

CD distortion is something that should never occur unless you have the SQ or EQ settings on. If your unit has "sound issues" OPPO wants to hear it, as this is one very rare occurrence.

Smarty-pants

01-23-07, 12:28 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but just an FYI to those who care if they don't already know... Oppo now has their "refurbished" products for sale on their website. As far as I know, you used to have to call them to order one. Today they had refurb 970s and 971s in stock.

krabapple

01-23-07, 01:37 AM

Indeed it does. I didn't know this when I ordered it, but once I got it, I wanted to test the USB port, so I threw some MP3s on a USB flash drive, and also threw on one Ogg file, for the heck of it. Imagine my shock when it recognized and played the Ogg file.

And just to let anyone know who wondered, the 970 unfortunately does NOT recognize/play FLAC files (which use Vorbis comments as metatags) . Not that there was any real reason to believe it would...but it would be incredibly cool if it did (hint, hint, Oppo...if you're reading this...)

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 02:55 AM

APE, Flac, WMA Lossless, WAV and so forth have been requested for firmware consideration, but so far there have been no advancements in supported codecs yet.

gonk

01-23-07, 07:54 AM

Do you think this will also solve my problem on some of my divx files using the modded firmware? lately i've been having some issues with the way this unit handles divx files. after selecting the divx file, it only shows black screen on my tv but the same file can be played using my philips dvd player. Which one do you prefer... 3A-0916 or this modded firmware?

Does anyone also experiencing this type of issue?
What resolution are the divx files in question? I ask because the highest resolution that the 970HD will play back is 720x480 - anything higher than that, and the player can only provide the audio with just a blank screen for the video. That is a hardware limitation that the modded firmware will not change.

Davidt1

01-23-07, 08:37 AM

I am upgrading my rating of the 970 from average to good. I usually leave the dvd in the tray and use the usb port to listen to music and the card slot to view pictures. It's pretty cool to use it as a three-in-one machine. There are still some minor (but annoying) issue with the menu. I can't tell if the movie soundtrack is 2.1 or 5.1 by looking at the OSD. The remote sucks big time of course.

Here are some feature requests for the next version of the 970: display dimmer; auto-off; better remote; better on screen display; usb 2.0; 1080p upconvert.

I will pay $250 for a machine with these features.

stsrep

01-23-07, 10:53 AM

Sorry to be a dumbass but can someone tell me how to get the hack files for component upconverting?
I'm aware of the website but what do I do??
Thanks in advance for the step by step procedures.

stsrep

01-23-07, 10:59 AM

Pt 2
Forgot to ask if anyone's purchased one of the refurbed 970's from Oppo and if so were the results ok?

primetimeguy

01-23-07, 11:01 AM

stsrep

01-23-07, 11:06 AM

Pt 2
Forgot to ask if anyone's purchased one of the refurbed 970's from Oppo and if so were the results ok?

drlopezmdfacc

01-23-07, 11:46 AM

Just purchased the 970 model and plan to use it mainly for sacd and dvd-a. When i play Beck's "Seachange" I am unable to pick the Advanced Resolution Surround Sound option for playback and instead I believe I am getting the standard surround version with no other option. Any thoughts or ideas on how to best configure the machine to allow me to pick the different modes available on this type of DVD-Audio/Video.

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 01:05 PM

Sorry to be a dumbass but can someone tell me how to get the hack files for component upconverting?
I'm aware of the website but what do I do??
Thanks in advance for the step by step procedures.

* In Nero Burning Rom version 6 or 7 , go to the ‘Recorder > Burn Image…' menu and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* In Nero Burning ROM version 5 or earlier, just go to Nero Burning ROMs ´File > Burn Image' option and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* In Nero Express select the option for 'Disc Image or Saved Project' to select the ISO image file you downloaded and burn to CD.
* In Easy CD Creator , go to 'File > Record CD from CD Image' and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* Burn At Once, go to File > Load New Image and select the ISO. Press Write.

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 01:11 PM

greeno

01-23-07, 01:13 PM

Pt 2
Forgot to ask if anyone's purchased one of the refurbed 970's from Oppo and if so were the results ok?

I did and the unit looked brand new. It's worked great (DVD-A, SACD and DVD-video). Best, jeff

greeno

01-23-07, 01:14 PM

* In Nero Burning Rom version 6 or 7 , go to the ‘Recorder > Burn Image…' menu and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* In Nero Burning ROM version 5 or earlier, just go to Nero Burning ROMs ´File > Burn Image' option and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* In Nero Express select the option for 'Disc Image or Saved Project' to select the ISO image file you downloaded and burn to CD.
* In Easy CD Creator , go to 'File > Record CD from CD Image' and select the ISO image you downloaded.
* Burn At Once, go to File > Load New Image and select the ISO. Press Write.

Note that if you buy the retail Nero Ultra 7, you'll need to go to their website and download the "update". Otherwise the Nero Burning ROM app doesn't work... (the "update" is very byzantine and time consuming...)

Best,
jeff

drlopezmdfacc

01-23-07, 01:57 PM

If DVD-Audio is set to DVD-Audio in the General Setup, then you are using the hi-resolution DVD-Audio track.
Thanks.

eap_44

01-23-07, 02:39 PM

What resolution are the divx files in question? I ask because the highest resolution that the 970HD will play back is 720x480 - anything higher than that, and the player can only provide the audio with just a blank screen for the video. That is a hardware limitation that the modded firmware will not change.

I looked at the properties of the said divx file and it only has 624x336 resolution. The player can't even handle both the video and audio. Did I just get a defective unit?

Neuromancer

01-23-07, 04:09 PM

eap_44

01-23-07, 04:19 PM

Could be the encode itself. An improper Index, an encode with several filters, or just a bad disc can cause this kind of problem. I have also been in the situation where a DivX/XviD between players (like the DV-970HD and the Philips DVB642) will either work or not on one or both players.

it was just interesting that most of my divx will play in my Philips 642 rather than in Oppo. Can a divx be reencode to another divx? it can't be a bad disc cause i have several divx files in 1 disc and only this particular file will not play. i'm still waiting for the Oppo's response as I sent them an email about this.

I'm actually thinking of replacing my Philips 642 with another Philips but this time the 5960 (divx ultra).

StinDaWg

01-23-07, 04:22 PM

Pt 2
Forgot to ask if anyone's purchased one of the refurbed 970's from Oppo and if so were the results ok?
The one I got works and looks brand new. I would definitely recommended it for $119 since it comes with the same 1 year warranty.

stsrep

01-23-07, 05:59 PM

I appreciate all of the replies to my questions /concerns.
I purchased a 970 refurb today from the Oppo website for $119 plus $12 shipping.
Downloaded the component hack with Easy CD Creator and will burn a CD shortly.
Unit will be used with an Epson Cinema 500 720p projector that was set up with component only through my ceiling and walls and is too much of a pain to re-wire with HDMI 75 footers.
Hopefully the Oppo website can guide me through the firmware procedures and I'll be good to go.
No way I'm buying a BluRay or HD-DVD player til they get their s*** worked out.
Thanks again folks for your help and comments.

stsrep

01-23-07, 08:00 PM

Just one last question:
Once I make the firmware hack to enable upconverting through component,how do I set up the player for use?
What do I push etc for this to work?

primetimeguy

01-23-07, 08:06 PM

Just one last question:
Once I make the firmware hack to enable upconverting through component,how do I set up the player for use?
What do I push etc for this to work?

You don't have to do anything special. Use the HDMI button the remote to toggle through the different output resolutions, but only while a disc is not playing.

stsrep

01-23-07, 08:56 PM

Thanks primetimeguy for your response.

MarcS

01-23-07, 09:58 PM

I searched this thread for "squeeze", and read all the posts...

What I haven't seen answered is this:

If you get the latest unit with the firmware that fixes the "squeeze", and then you load the hack to get upconversion over component, you will lose the squeeze fix, right? Because the hack was based on an older version of firmware?

thefunks67

01-23-07, 10:05 PM

I am getting ready to put a refurbished 970 in my basket but had a couple of easy questions before taking the plunge. I need a player that will upconvert via component as my Hitachi 65F59 only has 1 HDMI input that is used by my HD DVR.

Basically I want to know what improvements I am giving up or loosing by flashing it with an older hacked firmware? I understand I have to flash it to the upconvert over component. Any issues I will encounter with the hacked firmaware that are show stoppers?

Does the hacked firmware allow for 1080i output via component?

-Funk

primetimeguy

01-23-07, 10:22 PM

primetimeguy

01-23-07, 10:25 PM

sync

01-23-07, 11:14 PM

18 is # 1

01-24-07, 12:36 AM

I'm interested in this player primarily for divx videos. I'm pretty sure I'll run into quite a few videos that won't look good scaled all the way up to 780p. Is it possible to control the degree of scaling?
On standard DVD through HDMI or component with hacked firmware, you can set the output to 480i,480p,720p, or 1080i.
Not sure how divx will be handled.

StinDaWg

01-24-07, 03:26 AM

On standard DVD through HDMI or component with hacked firmware, you can set the output to 480i,480p,720p, or 1080i.
Not sure how divx will be handled.
You can do the same thing with divx, although honestly it's not going to look near as good as an original dvd would. You can't expect to get a compressed file up to HD quality.

sync

01-24-07, 09:47 AM

On standard DVD through HDMI or component with hacked firmware, you can set the output to 480i,480p,720p, or 1080i.
Not sure how divx will be handled.
I realize that for my tv the output has to be 720p. For divx I would need the ability to have variable upscaling with black bars to get good results.

Tempus

01-24-07, 11:57 AM

I called Oppo today and talked to two different people. Both claim that the 970 is hardware incapable as it is to pass Pluge patterns over the S-Video connection. The second person I talked with was the person who originally answered my support email and actually did the testing in-house with some 970s to confirm. I'm a bit confused how Tempus has a 970 that can pass BTB & Pluge when Oppo says that the hardware just can not do it.This little mystery was amusing, at first, but now I'm concerned that it's going to affect my credibility here at AVSForum. I would send you photographic proof that it's passing PLUGE, but I don't know any way that I could assemble it, because if I took a picture of the PLUGE pattern, it still wouldn't prove that I had it hooked up via S-Video. I've told you that I'm using S-Video (part of the time), so as to get closed captioning on non-subtitled material, such as the DVD box set of the first season of "Jeremiah", which I've been watching recently. I'm not deaf, but a family member is hard of hearing, and I've gotten used to captions/subtitles being there, and miss them when they're gone. Previously, I was using a different DVD player to display material with closed captioning, but then, a week or two ago, I hooked up the 970's S-Video output for such material, so that I could finally retire the old DVD player entirely.

I've told you my exact firmware version numbers, and I'm not sure what else I can do to track down the disparity, but to list all my settings, so here they are:

-- General Setup Page --TV Display: 16:9 Wide/Auto
OSD Lang: English
Screen Saver: Off
Angle Mark: Off
SACD Priority: Multi-Channel
DVD-Audio Mode: DVD-Audio
DivX(R) VOD:
-- Speaker Setup Page --Down-mix: 5.1 CH
Front Speaker: Large
Center Speaker: Small
Rear Speaker: Small
Subwoofer: Off
Channel Delay:
Center Speaker: 0 inch
Left Surround: 68 inch
Right Surround: 68 inchChannel Trim:Center Speaker: 0.0dB
Left Front: 0.0dB
Right Front: 0.0dB
Left Surround: 0.0dB
Right Surround: 0.0dB
Subwoofer: 0.0dBAudio Delay: 00
-- Audio Setup Page --EQ Type: None
Sound Field: Off
Digital Output: Raw
LPCM Rate: 48K
Audio Tone: 00
Pro Logic II:
Pro Logic II: Off
Mode: Music
Panorama: Off
Dimension: 00
Center Width: 03Dolby Digital Setup:
Dual Mono: Stereo
Dynamic: OffHDMI Audio: Off

-- Video Setup Page --
Sharpness: Off
Brightness: 00
Contrast: 00
Hue: 00
Saturation: 00
Gamma: Off
Color Space: RGB

It does not support BTB over S-Video. This is a defect of the chipset used on the DV-970HD. I can personally attest to this. Component will pass BTB, but even that can be shady depending on how it is used (for example, BTB does not work if I go through a VP30).Even if the chipset cannot pass BTB, meaning 0IRE, that doesn't mean that the player can't pass PLUGE, and display the BTB bars in PLUGE. How? Simple. True BTB would be a negative output voltage, as zero volts represents "video black", or 7.5IRE. If the player, however, were to output "video black" as something higher than zero volts, and then output BTB (0IRE) as zero volts, the full PLUGE pattern would be visible simply by properly adjusting the brightness of the TV. Technically, it would be operating out of spec, but in a way that doesn't matter, given enough latitude on the brightness adjustment of the TV. Given this, I see any such hardware limitation of the chipset as irrelevant to this situation.

And just to let anyone know who wondered, the 970 unfortunately does NOT recognize/play FLAC files (which use Vorbis comments as metatags) . Not that there was any real reason to believe it would...but it would be incredibly cool if it did (hint, hint, Oppo...if you're reading this...)It seems to ignore comments in Ogg files too. Would be nice if they fixed that, but it's probably a low priority, given that Ogg support isn't even mentioned in the manual. Either way, I'm just glad it will play them at all, because I already had my music in Ogg format, and this way I don't have to re-encode everything.

18 is # 1

01-24-07, 12:27 PM

[QUOTE=Tempus]This little mystery was amusing, at first, but now I'm concerned that it's going to affect my credibility here at AVSForum.

Your absolved. Now stop before you need therapy! :p

18 is # 1

01-24-07, 12:28 PM

I realize that for my tv the output has to be 720p. For divx I would need the ability to have variable upscaling with black bars to get good results.

What type of TV are you viewing with?

jhigh2000

01-24-07, 12:55 PM

Neuromancer,

Do you know if the code for the underscan issue (which is fixed in the beta firmware) is slated for inclusion in a future general firmware release?

The website states that the underscan cannot be fixed without sacrificing picture quality. Did Oppo find a solution for this or is the fix a compromise?

Thanks!

sync

01-24-07, 01:07 PM

What type of TV are you viewing with?
A 37" LCD 780p.

StinDaWg

01-24-07, 01:52 PM

A 37" LCD 780p.
I'm not sure what you're asking. If you set the player to 720p to play the Divx files it will fill the screen just like a normal dvd would.

Neuromancer

01-24-07, 01:56 PM

Do you know if the code for the underscan issue (which is fixed in the beta firmware) is slated for inclusion in a future general firmware release?

This is something they have been working on but have not come to a solution which has impressed them. This is still an ongoing battle at OPPO.

sync

01-24-07, 02:02 PM

I'm not sure what you're asking. If you set the player to 720p to play the Divx files it will fill the screen just like a normal dvd would.
I'm no longer asking, I got the answer.

I'm saying that for most divx videos, scaling up to 780p won't look good. You need to have variable scaling and scaling less than 780p would have black bars.

sanjoseskater

01-24-07, 06:25 PM

http://www.filefactory.com/file/ebf391/

This hack (613AMOD) is for component cable upscaled output, not compression. The firmware fix for that is on the Oppo website.

1. Does loading the hack which upscales over component affect the current firmware in any way?

I don't want to perform the hack then have my firmware reverted back to a version that has lots of bugs.

2. I already own a Panasonic XP30 which has a great picture at 480p over component paired with my Pioneer CRT RPTV. Will I see any improvement using the Oppo output at 1080i? What are others experiences with this type of comparison?

Thanks.

louthewiz

01-24-07, 07:13 PM

New oppo user here and to tell you the truth I am amazed at the picture quality of this dvd player, The image is as good as my hd dish dvr without a doubt and the features and quality are top notch ,it also plays dvd audio and has many features that you have to pay much more for in any ordinary dvd player.

primetimeguy

01-24-07, 07:28 PM

1. Does loading the hack which upscales over component affect the current firmware in any way?

I don't want to perform the hack then have my firmware reverted back to a version that has lots of bugs.

2. I already own a Panasonic XP30 which has a great picture at 480p over component paired with my Pioneer CRT RPTV. Will I see any improvement using the Oppo output at 1080i? What are others experiences with this type of comparison?

Thanks.

My experience with the Oppo and my 57" RP CRT is that yes the Oppo is a better player than my previous older Sony player. This is comparing 480p on both players. Switching to 1080i on the Oppo I don't see much of a difference, but it is slightly better than 480p because I am not able to see scanlines (my TV will show 480p natively). So all in all, I'm not a big believer in a better picture from the upscaling players. I think it has more to do with people just getting a newer player to replace their current player which often times are 5-10yrs old. And for the money Oppo has some really good universal players out there.

primetimeguy

01-24-07, 07:31 PM

...The image is as good as my hd dish dvr without a doubt...

I would say if this is the case your DVR is not set up properly, things are not calibrated properly or you're sitting too far away from your TV to see the difference. There should be a big difference between DVD and HD.

Shawn Parr

01-24-07, 08:15 PM

Even if the chipset cannot pass BTB, meaning 0IRE, that doesn't mean that the player can't pass PLUGE, and display the BTB bars in PLUGE. How? Simple. True BTB would be a negative output voltage, as zero volts represents "video black", or 7.5IRE. If the player, however, were to output "video black" as something higher than zero volts, and then output BTB (0IRE) as zero volts, the full PLUGE pattern would be visible simply by properly adjusting the brightness of the TV. Technically, it would be operating out of spec, but in a way that doesn't matter, given enough latitude on the brightness adjustment of the TV. Given this, I see any such hardware limitation of the chipset as irrelevant to this situation.

According to any information I can find on this topic, the only potentially negative voltage levels would be the sync pulse which is at -40IRE. 0IRE is supposed to be at 0v, with 7.5IRE in some systems being at 50 odd mV. Black and even most BTB are still positive voltage values, unless you are using a Japanese system that uses 0IRE for black.

I'm not that concerned about your reputation, as I'm not very confident in the information I'm getting from Oppo either. I can understand not passing BTB, but having anything under 15% or so being clipped to black? That is just weird.

StinDaWg

01-24-07, 09:23 PM

I would say if this is the case your DVR is not set up properly, things are not calibrated properly or you're sitting too far away from your TV to see the difference. There should be a big difference between DVD and HD.
I would have to say it is "almost" as good as HD cable. Well, just the fact that it looks a lot better than the Philips player it replaced is good enough for me. Don't plan on going Blu-ray or HD-dvd for a long time. Hoping DiVx HD is as good as it sounds.

Soybean

01-24-07, 10:03 PM

I ordered my 970 yesterday. Can't wait!

Still haven't received an order confirmation yet, though. Are they typically slow regarding that?

louthewiz

01-24-07, 10:30 PM

I would say if this is the case your DVR is not set up properly

Well my display and dvr are properly set and calibrated for sure , and if it looks good to me then that's what really counts.:cool:

Still haven't received an order confirmation yet, though. Are they typically slow regarding that?

The reason you didn't get a confirmation is because they are backordered until the 29th, if you want it right away just order a refurb by calling them on the phone and they will drop the price to $119.00 and the refurbs carry the full warranty as a new player.

Soybean

01-24-07, 10:53 PM

Oops, I should've mentioned that I DID order a refurb. I ordered it through the site, though. I'll call them tomorrow to see if it went through.

etpiejr

01-24-07, 11:16 PM

1. Does loading the hack which upscales over component affect the current firmware in any way?

I don't want to perform the hack then have my firmware reverted back to a version that has lots of bugs.

Hello. I am also interested in the answer to this question. Can anyone help? I have also did a search fro the hack download and none of them seem to be valid anymore. Does anyone know where to get it ?

Anagoge

01-24-07, 11:26 PM

I found the 970 plays OGG Vorbis files fairly well, but it won't display the same nice GUI that shows while it plays mp3 files. The screen more or less blanks out.

I'd also really love to see FLAC support, because most of my classical CDs are now in FLAC format.

I loved the 970 in most ways, but I do agree that the USB port was a big weakness, because is was only USB 1.1 and seemed a little finicky with some flash drives. I also did not like that the MP3 playing screen showed so very little of the song name. There was a lot of wasted space on that screen that could have been better used to show longer filenames and more files, but I guess we can't have it all.

Because of macroblocking, I can't use a 971 or 981, and the 970 I gave to my father, because of honestly minor issues with it. I'd love to see an updated 970-like machine that has reliable USB2, a similar non macroblocking deinterlacer/scaler, FLAC, no squeeze, HD divx/wmv, 1080p, and in black. I'd easily pay $200+ for that, and recommend it to everyone.

Does anyone know what is next for Oppo now that the 981 seems out there and in a fairly stable state? Is an updated 970 like player next, or a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player? I'd also love to see an Oppo-quality Blu-Ray player with a Silicon Optix chip.

primetimeguy

01-24-07, 11:48 PM

Hello. I am also interested in the answer to this question. Can anyone help? I have also did a search fro the hack download and none of them seem to be valid anymore. Does anyone know where to get it ?

The upconverting via component is a hacked version of an older firmware, so yes when you revert back to this hacked firmware for this feature you lose any gains the newer firmware releases may have provided. I suggest you read through the list of firmware updates on the Oppo site and determine if you need any of these updates and base your decision on that.

But it would be nice for someone to hack one of the newer firmware versions. :)

StinDaWg

01-25-07, 12:08 AM

I ordered my 970 yesterday. Can't wait!

Still haven't received an order confirmation yet, though. Are they typically slow regarding that?
I never even received a confirmation email, though it came within a week.

aikiman

01-25-07, 12:18 AM

Quank

01-25-07, 07:02 AM

1. Does loading the hack which upscales over component affect the current firmware in any way?

I don't want to perform the hack then have my firmware reverted back to a version that has lots of bugs.

Hello. I am also interested in the answer to this question. Can anyone help? I have also did a search fro the hack download and none of them seem to be valid anymore. Does anyone know where to get it ?

You guys need to search a bit. This question is asked about every 3 or 4 days here and is brought up quite a bit in this thread itself. ANY firmware overwrite existing firmware. That's the nature of firmware. It's a replacement - not a patch. That said, the older version the hack is based on is not very buggy. It only has one or two things not updated on it that have to do with SACD I believe.

The name of the hacked firmware is 613AMOD.iso if that helps you at all.

Tempus

01-25-07, 12:30 PM

According to any information I can find on this topic, the only potentially negative voltage levels would be the sync pulse which is at -40IRE. 0IRE is supposed to be at 0v, with 7.5IRE in some systems being at 50 odd mV. Black and even most BTB are still positive voltage values, unless you are using a Japanese system that uses 0IRE for black.Yes, the sync signal is negative, around -300mV, but it is not the only negative voltage. Here is a quote from the full online manual for Digital Video Essentials:
"The full active video signal extends from about -48 mVolts to +760 mVolts with black at 0 Volts and white at 700 mVolts."The black to which they refer would be video black (7.5 IRE), which puts anything below video black at a negative voltage.

I'm not that concerned about your reputation, as I'm not very confident in the information I'm getting from Oppo either. I can understand not passing BTB, but having anything under 15% or so being clipped to black? That is just weird.Well, whether it's truly passing BTB or just shifting the whole range upward so that BTB comes out as black, and video black comes out as dark grey, all I can know for sure with the equipment I have available to me is that I see all the bars in DVE title 12, chapter 2, over S-Video, on my TV.