2:2 Cadence manifests itself on older european titles(Pre 01), Currently, it's not widely used, and players without it are perfectly acceptable for general viewing.

However, if you happen to be someone who watches a very very large amount of pal video, especially older european titles, you might want to invest in a player capable of decoding that cadence. The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding.

If you happen to be using a scaler, it doens't really matter, as any decent scaler will take care of the 2:2 for you.

If you are not using a scaler, I highly recommend the 971H instead.

So, does this mean that SDI (on the 971H) will give you 10 bits, whereas the 970HD gives out only 8 bits over HDMI? (and 8 bits over DVI on the 971H). I tend to believe that as I do see more subtle detail when I compare DVI and SDI in my modded 971H. Typically seen when you have very light reflections on glass windows.

DVD Information is only encoded at 8 bits I believe, so if you are feeding it to an external scaler, it shouldn't matter. (I assume you feed 480i)

DVD Information is only encoded at 8 bits I believe, so if you are feeding it to an external scaler, it shouldn't matter. (I assume you feed 480i)
Well, the proof is always in the pudding as they say. I do see a very real improvement via SDI over DVI from the 971H (certifiable on test DVDs such as AVIA, DVE and the DVDO ABT102), so what I see is attributible to something. My equipment list is in my Public Profile. As I mentioned above in an earlier post, the Oppo DVI output at 576p is a bit on the soft side, but also has some noise on it. SDI completely eliminates the noise, and produces a razor sharp image. I can compare both SDI and DVI outputs very readily as both are active at the same time, and both go through the DVDO VP30 video-processor. My display is set up at NR and can handle 50 and 60Hz natively, so everything is passed to the display natively.

DVD Information is only encoded at 8 bits I believe, so if you are feeding it to an external scaler, it shouldn't matter. (I assume you feed 480i)

I know there was talk a while back about the benefits of 10 and 12-bit decoding about half a year ago, but I can't remember where it was located, or who participated. The jist of it was this: although DVDs are at 8-bits, a 10-bit feed technically allows you to use the extra information for redundency and error correction, which ensures that the end video is always high quality.

(Whew) Just finished sifting through 9 pages of posts, created in only a couple of days....

So, it appears that the 970HD supports playback of MP-3 audio content. What about unprotected MPEG-4 AAC - the audio compression format of Apple's wildly popular iPod portable music player?

2:2 Cadence manifests itself on older european titles(Pre 01), Currently, it's not widely used, and players without it are perfectly acceptable for general viewing.

However, if you happen to be someone who watches a very very large amount of pal video, especially older european titles, you might want to invest in a player capable of decoding that cadence. The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding.


Just a clarification question: are all PAL DVDs in 2:2 Cadence or just older european PAL titles (Pre 01)?

The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding, the Oppo 970HD dows not support 2:2 decoding. Is it a matter of hardware or can I expect the Oppo 970HD might support 2:2 decoding in the future, e.g. through a software update?

inomics

(Whew) Just finished sifting through 9 pages of posts, created in only a couple of days....

So, it appears that the 970HD supports playback of MP-3 and WMA audio content. What about unprotected MPEG-4 AAC - the audio compression format of Apple's wildly popular iPod portable music player?

AAC is not supported in any fashion, likely due to licensing issues associated to proprietary formats.

The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding, the Oppo 970HD dows not support 2:2 decoding. Is it a matter of hardware or can I expect the Oppo 970HD might support 2:2 decoding in the future, e.g. through a software update?

Likely to be a hardware problem associated to the MTK chipset, though OPPO could always surprise us.

I know there was talk a while back about the benefits of 10 and 12-bit decoding about half a year ago, but I can't remember where it was located, or who participated. The jist of it was this: although DVDs are at 8-bits, a 10-bit feed technically allows you to use the extra information for redundency and error correction, which ensures that the end video is always high quality. You may be correct, but what I remember, is that 10-bit processing only becomes an advantage beyond the MPEG decoder - during the de-interlacing, scaling, gamma correction, colorspace transformation, display processing, and so on. Anyone know for sure?

Gary

2:2 Cadence manifests itself on older european titles(Pre 01), Currently, it's not widely used, and players without it are perfectly acceptable for general viewing.

What on earth are you talking about? PAL DVDs are 50Hz. 24fps film is sped up to 25fps and a 2:2 cadence is used to produce 50Hz interlaced. I don't see what other type of cadence could possibly be used to produce 50Hz and indeed, why they would bother changing the standard 'post 01'?

Just a clarification question: are all PAL DVDs in 2:2 Cadence or just older european PAL titles (Pre 01)?

The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding, the Oppo 970HD dows not support 2:2 decoding. Is it a matter of hardware or can I expect the Oppo 970HD might support 2:2 decoding in the future, e.g. through a software update?

inomics

The pioneer 588 using the same mtk chip can do 2:2, hopefully the Oppo will too with a firmware update.

Could be implimentation. I have had no experience with the Denon 3910, but I have used the Panasonic S77/97, and they also appear softer as well.

I'm considering the 970HD for my Sony 42A10...is the deinterlacer in my Sony better than the one in the 970? I prefer a sharper picture to a softer picture so I'm trying to stay away from the Faroudja setups, any suggestions? Thanks.

AAC is not supported in any fashion, likely due to licensing issues associated to proprietary formats.
Thanks for the response.

Although content purchased from the iTunes music store is protected with Apple's proprietary DRM Fairplay, MP-3 and MPEG-4 AAC are both ISO international standards - AAC is not proprietary at all. A large percentage of iPod users obtain their music by ripping their CD's into unprotected AAC format, so future support of MPEG AAC in the 970HD via a firmware update would be very useful to them.

So i guess i shouldn't be expecting a really great picture on my 61" Sammy with the 970? My Toshiba 5970 puts out a decent picture but it is quirky as hell and a pain in the ass. I tried my LG LDA511 i had in my bedroom but that don't cut it either. I also tried a Sammy 860 but i didn't care for the PQ of that unit either. All of these upscaled to 720p/1080i and the Toshiba was the best. I also have an HTPC which has the best color depth and most vivid picture but it isn't as sharp as the Toshiba. I was hoping the 970 would solve my dilemma. I guess we'll see what happens when i get it tommorow.

I use the 971 on a 61" Sammy and the picture is excelent... why not just get that one?

I'm looking for a DVD player that doesn't have macroblocking, that I can (at least initially) pass the signal unaltered to my Sony xbr800 display and let the internal scaler of the display upconvert the image. SACD and DVD-A are an added bonus. On the surface this appears to be a great choice for me. Why is this unit recommended for folks with external scalers and the 971 for everyone else?

Please be nice, maiden post :-)

After reading this and the 971 thread, I ordered my 970 a couple of days ago. I can hardly wait!

As I understand, DVD-A and SACD will not have digital output? I wonder if this is a hardware limitation or something at the firmware level... I would hate to use an analog connection for audio.

As I understand, DVD-A and SACD will not have digital output? I wonder if this is a hardware limitation or something at the firmware level... I would hate to use an analog connection for audio.
Digital output is possible through HDMI with DVD-A and SACD discs. For SACD, however, it will pass decoded PCM channels and not the original DSD bitstream. If I understand DSD correctly it supposedly has more resolution than 192kHz PCM. I don't know how much of an audible loss you'll get from this conversion.

This has been a very informative thread, thanks everyone for the input. I have an older TV that only supports component inputs, there has been a lot of talk about the digital outputs on this unit but has anyone had a chance to review the component output on this unit? The 971 only supported 480i component and I understand the 970HD will do 480p but how does it compare with other universal players like the Pio 588 (which was the other unit I was looking at)?

I just placed an order for mine 970HD on 06/01/06 for local pick up and now it is backordered unitl 06/15/06. Can you belive this, I think they should rethink the supply/demand curve. Does anyone know where else I can get it sooner?

Otherwise, I think they should give a discount price on the 971HD until they have stock.

This has been a very informative thread, thanks everyone for the input. I have an older TV that only supports component inputs, there has been a lot of talk about the digital outputs on this unit but has anyone had a chance to review the component output on this unit? The 971 only supported 480i component and I understand the 970HD will do 480p but how does it compare with other universal players like the Pio 588 (which was the other unit I was looking at)?

I've used the component output pretty extensively and it's quite good. The 970HD doesn't have the Y/C delay issues of the Pioneer. I've got a review posted elsewhere on the 970 (don't want to break any rules by linking to it, but it's in the same place as my 971 review).

PooperScooper - as I mentioned earlier, the 480i CUE issue was addressed in the production models. Since you have a pre-production unit, you may indeed be seeing CUE on it. Part of the reason that the release was delayed was to address the CUE issue.

Please be nice, maiden post :-)

After reading this and the 971 thread, I ordered my 970 a couple of days ago. I can hardly wait!

As I understand, DVD-A and SACD will not have digital output? I wonder if this is a hardware limitation or something at the firmware level... I would hate to use an analog connection for audio.

Also, just to add some more detail to George's reply, neither DVD-A nor SACD can be passed over a Toslink or SPDIF output (which are used for Dolby Digital and DTS typically) due to copy protection and bandwidth limitations.

Why does Oppo not recommend the 970 for displays over 50"? If I hook it up to my 60" display will I get bad PQ?

I just placed an order for mine 970HD on 06/01/06 for local pick up and now it is backordered unitl 06/15/06. Can you belive this, I think they should rethink the supply/demand curve. Does anyone know where else I can get it sooner?

Otherwise, I think they should give a discount price on the 971HD until they have stock.


Earlier in this thread another member said OPPO was limiting their initial stock to less than 100 units for the first couple of weeks and the only source would be through them. They wanted to create an initial small run direct to the customers so they could gather feedback on the product.

After the initial sales it's been said that their other resellers would receive units for sale. One would assume that is the mid-June date

Ron

Thanks for the response.

Although content purchased from the iTunes music store is protected with Apple's proprietary DRM Fairplay, MP-3 and MPEG-4 AAC are both ISO international standards - AAC is not proprietary at all. A large percentage of iPod users obtain their music by ripping their CD's into unprotected AAC format, so future support of MPEG AAC in the 970HD via a firmware update would be very useful to them.

The format itself is proprietary, not the protection. It would be like using AATrac, MP4, APE, FLAC, MKV and other formats. Some of these formats are open license (OGG/OGM for example), whereas others have constituants which own the rights to the license, and it can either be free, or cost something per unit sold/yearly fee.

So yes, your audio isn't protected because you ripped it yourself, but the format it has been mastered to is not licensed to the DV-970HD, which means it will not play.

Why is this unit recommended for folks with external scalers and the 971 for everyone else?

I posted this on the 971H Braindump:

Like any device, you want to feed the best signal you can to be processed. For a scaler, you want to provide it with pretty much the RAW MPEG video stream that is contained on the DVD player.

A DVD player which is outputting a progressive image is a DVD player which is applying filters to the video stream. Every filter used "molests" the original intent of the MPEG stream, to the point where you can pretty much negate the high end filtering aspects of the external scaler.

In the case of the OPDV971H, you are processing the feed first through a Faroudja chipset, which will apply its own cadence and pulldowns, motion adaptive de-interlacing, CUE removal and maintanence, DNR, and a plathera of other enhancers. And this is just a progressive alteration. Now, this "enhanced" version of the MPEG information is now sent to another processor (external scaler) which will apply even more filters and enhancers. This long chain of alterations is not ideal.

Ideally you want to feed the scaler the cleanest stream as possible, to allow the scaler to do what is was designed for: high end filtering. A clean transport will ensure tha best possible scaling, which will in turn increase the video fidelity of the final displayed image.

So, OPPO isn't saying that you shouldn't do it, they are saying that there are better options available that will produce much better results.

My favorite Fed Ex delivery person just left my 970HD at my office. I will hook it up to my Anthem D2 this evening and put it through its' paces over the weekend. And, with no new HD releases, this week, the Oppo could not have shown up at a better time. :)

I'm looking for a DVD player that doesn't have macroblocking, that I can (at least initially) pass the signal unaltered to my Sony xbr800 display and let the internal scaler of the display upconvert the image. SACD and DVD-A are an added bonus. On the surface this appears to be a great choice for me. Why is this unit recommended for folks with external scalers and the 971 for everyone else?

To add on to George's response (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7760701&&#post7760701), SACD can't be transmitted through optical or coaxial due to DRM. However, DVD-Audio can be transported, but only in Stereo (2.0 channel).

Does anyone know where else I can get it sooner?

As MikeSRC said, no retailers have stock. They are looking at receiving stock mid-June, the same time OPPO will be shipping out back-ordered units.

Otherwise, I think they should give a discount price on the 971HD until they have stock.

That makes absolutely no business sense, since OPPO made no claims about having enough stock to service all orders. Yes it is upsetting that it has been backordered, but there is no need to issue a discount ticket.

Why does Oppo not recommend the 970 for displays over 50"? If I hook it up to my 60" display will I get bad PQ?

The ability to discern the quality of the de-interlacing increases as the television size increases. Because the DV970HD does not do as good as a job of de-interlacing, it is not as well suited for larger displays as the OPDV971H. Does this mean you can't us the DV-970HD on your 60" television? Of course not, OPPO just feels that you would be better off using the OPDV971H rather than their DV-970HD.

To add on to George's response (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7760701&&#post7760701), SACD can't be transmitted through optical or coaxial due to DRM. However, DVD-Audio can be transported, but only in Stereo (2.0 channel).

thanks for the response. I plan on using a HDMI - > DVI cable to my display, a optical or digital coaxial cable to my receiver for the audio, and if I purchase this unit, the 5.1 analog jacks to my receiver for SACD and DVD-A, so I won't be passing that signal through the digital outputs of the unit.

I understand why this unit is perfect for use with an external video processor, but I was looking at it from the other side, and that is, why is this unit not good for use without an external video processor?

First review of the DV-970HD (http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/tech-review.php?rev=99) has been posted at HomeTheaterSpot, but Mike didn't seem to give the DV-970HD a score.

I understand why this unit is perfect for use with an external video processor, but I was looking at it from the other side, and that is, why is this unit not good for use without an external video processor?

Some of the key ingrediants of a good DVD player are its de-interlacing capabilities, its ability to handle multiple cadences (Film based 3:2 pulldown and 2:2 cadence are the most important), and overall picture clarity (this includes CUE and Y/C Delay response, sharpness, color reproduction and so forth).

For the most part, the DV-970HD passes many of the criteria of a great DVD player, but fails two primary catagories.

First, the de-interlacing aspects are lower than that of the current "High Score" player: the OPDV971H. Because youa are more prone to see inginterlacing and aliasing errors with the DV-970HD, the overall picture quality is much lower.

Second, the DV-970HD does not support proper film based 2:2 Cadence support, which means that your PAL films will be very jagged compared to their NTSC counterparts.

These errors, and more, can be compensated for by an external scaler, which is why OPPO recommends the DV-970HD for this type of application.

The format itself is proprietary, not the protection. It would be like using AATrac, MP4, APE, FLAC, MKV and other formats. Some of these formats are open license (OGG/OGM for example), whereas others have constituants which own the rights to the license, and it can either be free, or cost something per unit sold/yearly fee.

So yes, your audio isn't protected because you ripped it yourself, but the format it has been mastered to is not licensed to the DV-970HD, which means it will not play.
Yes I believe a license is required for AAC, just as a license is required for nearly every audio codec, including existing supported formats in the 970HD such as MP-3. So it boils down to a business decision for Oppo to decide if adding new features to their 970HD or future players to support iPod users is worth the cost of another license. In my case at least, playback support for unprotected iPod content would be a very attractive feature.

PooperScooper - as I mentioned earlier, the 480i CUE issue was addressed in the production models. Since you have a pre-production unit, you may indeed be seeing CUE on it. Part of the reason that the release was delayed was to address the CUE issue. Excellent! So it wasn't a firmware fix? A while back I asked somebody about the delay and they didn't think it was to fix the CUE problem.

larry

Cue addressed: ICP not so.

In my case at least, playback support for unprotected iPod content would be a very attractive feature.

It would be very attractive, but can also be very costly on a business standpoint. You may want to read the MPEG-4 AAC Licensing Fees (http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/license.terms.html) prices (remember that the license price is per channel per quarter. For a 2 channel encode, you are looking at paying 4 dollars per unit each year). This is very steep, especially if not all of your consumers are using the feature.

To add on to George's response, SACD can't be transmitted through optical or coaxial due to DRM. However, DVD-Audio can be transported, but only in Stereo (2.0 channel).

I haven't read up on SACD DRM yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it can be circumvented. The real issue at hand tho is the the hardware limitation mentioned above (bandwidth)... time to dig out my analog cables.


It would have been nice to pump DTS into my receiver and have 'it' do the processing... just like movies.

Well,

It looks like the OPDV971H is still best.

Digital output is possible through HDMI with DVD-A and SACD discs. For SACD, however, it will pass decoded PCM channels and not the original DSD bitstream. If I understand DSD correctly it supposedly has more resolution than 192kHz PCM. I don't know how much of an audible loss you'll get from this conversion.

Its substantial on better audio equipment. If SACD audio is important try to stay with the DSD analog stream if possible.

I'm still trying to figure out if running HDMI 480i into the DCDi chip in my projector is the way to go.

Well i got my 970 this morning. I have done a limited initial test. I am running a 10ft DVI->HDMI cable from my Samsung HLN617W(61"DLP). I setup the player for my display(haven't calibrated with DVE yet). I tried 480p, 720p,1080i with Gladiator and Hollowman 2(Netflix). First the 480p, very smooth and detailed picture(pleasantly surprised). Next up the 720p, slightly sharper and smoother picture but not as big of a difference as i would have thought. The 1080i was , to my eyes, indistinguishable to the 720p. Overall i think the PQ with Standard Def DVD's is excellent especially for the money. It beats out the previous 3 HDMI upconverting players i have tried recently. Those models were:
1. LG LDA511 - Too "waxy" looking and lacked good color depth. Plays almost everything the 970 does though. Divx and Xvid playback very good.
2. Samsung HD 860 - Lacked color depth and not as sharp as i would like. Also had trouble with Divx and Xvid discs.
3. Toshiba 5790 - Excellent picture(very close to the 970) but it is an annoying player. Slow response to the remote commands. Froze up alot. Didn't play Divx or Xvid files.

Divx and Xvid playback is excellent. The 970 does a good job of scaling files to their proper aspect ratios(the LG was good at this also). Another great thing about the 970 is it has excellent remote response and navigating DVD menus is lightning fast. I haven't tried DVD-A or SACD yet because i am waiting for my Emotiva UL processor with HDMI switcher to ship. I just don't want the hassle of hooking up the analog outs because it would require me to dismantle too much equipment to get at the back of my current receiver i am using as a pre/pro. All in all i am very happy with what i have seen so far.

Like any device, you want to feed the best signal you can to be processed. For a scaler, you want to provide it with pretty much the RAW MPEG video stream that is contained on the DVD player.

[...]

Ideally you want to feed the scaler the cleanest stream as possible, to allow the scaler to do what is was designed for: high end filtering. A clean transport will ensure tha best possible scaling, which will in turn increase the video fidelity of the final displayed image.


So I'm still waiting for someone to rave about the 970HD's digital 480i performance to an external scaler, but I've not seen it so far. I've read a couple of posts from folks that say the SDI mod'd players they're comparing the Oppo to still produce a better picture.

These comments didn't surprise me, since the HDMI vs SDI solution involves passing the signal through add'l circuitry in the Oppo on it's way to the scaler. There's also the question about Oppo's (or Mediatek's) decision to use 4:4:4 upsampling vs. 4:2:2 upsampling as being another potential area of image deterioration, but I'm still wondering if any differences between the Oppo solution and an SDI solution are negligible or significant? Are the SDI folks understandably trying to rationalize the additional investment required, or is their truly a visible difference on, say, a 50" display between the two approaches?

Lastly, has anyone with a good internal or external scaler compared the 970's 480i HDMI vs. it's 480i component image connected to the same scaler?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

/steve

It would be very attractive, but can also be very costly on a business standpoint. You may want to read the MPEG-4 AAC Licensing Fees (http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/license.terms.html) prices (remember that the license price is per channel per quarter. For a 2 channel encode, you are looking at paying 4 dollars per unit each year). This is very steep, especially if not all of your consumers are using the feature.
I just read the table, and your example overestimates the per-unit license fee by 4x. Units sold in one quarter would not be charged again in subsequent quarters.

We're heading OT, so I'll leave it to Oppo to decide if a decoder cost starting at $1/player and dropping below that for quarterly volumes > 100k makes sense from a business perspective or not.

So I'm still waiting for someone to rave about the 970HD's digital 480i performance to an external scaler, but I've not seen it so far. I've read a couple of posts from folks that say the SDI mod'd players they're comparing the Oppo to still produce a better picture.

To be fair, no one has the DVD player yet (really). You will likely have to wait until next week, if not later, for reports from people who have the DV-970HD and external processors.

And the SDI modders in this thread have been talking about modified OPDV971H's, which share pretty much the same decoding chipset.

I just read the table, and your example overestimates the per-unit license fee by 4x. Units sold in one quarter would not be charged again in subsequent quarters.

The table itself does not talk abotu licensing beyond the first quarter the unit is produced. However, I believe it is a recursive fee that extends to the life of the production unit (at least it was when I looked into licensing back in 2001. Could have been reduced to quarterly production and not the life of the product). But in either case, it is a measure which will cost the company money, and in the end, profits is what keeps you operational.

To be fair, no one has the DVD player yet (really). You will likely have to wait until next week, if not later, for reports from people who have the DV-970HD and external processors.

I wait with bated breath. The real promise of this player for me and many others was to use it as a pure digital transport, so I assumed those who have been beta testing it for the past month or so would have already put it through those paces.

And the SDI modders in this thread have been talking about modified OPDV971H's, which share pretty much the same decoding chipset.

If that is the case, reports of SDI's superiority would be even more disturbing news. I believe Josh and Stacey compared it with Denon and Panasonic mod'd players.

/steve

I just got mine! Double boxed, player inside a black synthetic cloth envelope. Nice! Hooked it up to my Panasonic TH-42PX60U plasma via HDMI. Played "Nine Lives" DVD for a few minutes. Looks great! I honestly cannot tell if 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i is best. They all look good. In the case of the LOWER resolutions, my plasma is doing the scaling and de-interlacing. Of course, I only had a few minutes to watch (this is my lunch hour). I am very happy so far.

What are some external scalers that folks feel produce better results with the 480i output than the built-in scalers in the 971? How much does a "better" external scaler run?

Just got mine also. The packaging is really well done. I'm running it to a new Z4. Initial impression is really good, you can tell it doesn't handle diags as well, but everything else is nice. Definitely nicer build quality. I'm going to test some PAL this weekend to see how much of a difference there is compared to the 971.

The most common external scalers are those designed by Genesis (Faroudja), ABT (iScan VP30) and Anthem (Gennum VXP). The prices range from 2000~6500 MSRP.

Ahh, ok, I thought it was CUE. I see the jaggy lines on the red triangle in the Snell and Wilcox pattern and I know it's one or the other.

The pattern on DVE is really for ICP only. It is encoded as interlaced. You should use the CUE/ICP patterns on the ABT disc.

Anybody tried the 970 with a Denon 3806 via HDMI? Played with it a bit last night but there were HDCP problems..path is 970>3806>VP30>display. The VP30 info plate was showing HDCP going on and off. Player works fine leaving the 3806 out of the loop so I'm sure it's something with the 3806....3806 works fine with the Toshiba HD-A1 configured the same way, HD-A1>3806>VP30>display.

Going to try later today but wondered if anyone else had the same setup.

I haven't read up on SACD DRM yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it can be circumvented. The real issue at hand tho is the the hardware limitation mentioned above (bandwidth)... time to dig out my analog cables.


It would have been nice to pump DTS into my receiver and have 'it' do the processing... just like movies.

The fact that the SACD bitstream can't be transmitted via TOSLINK or coax has nothing to do with DRM per se; it has to do with the fact that the bistream would be DSD and not the PCM format that most other digital audio formats (DTS, DD, Redbook CDs, etc.) use. There is a digital connection on some high-end receivers and high-end SACD players specially made for SACD (called iLINK I believe) which you would have to use if you wanted a digital signal from the player, but there'd be no way to "circumvent the DRM" to get a digital signal from your Oppo player to a PCM-only equipped receiver; it just doesn't work that way.

The pattern on DVE is really for ICP only. It is encoded as interlaced. You should use the CUE/ICP patterns on the ABT disc. Many thanks for setting me straight. :)

larry

Has anyone tried to play video/image files via USB yet? This is quite an intriguing feature for me, if possible.

Has anyone tried to play video/image files via USB yet? This is quite an intriguing feature for me, if possible.

It works fairly well. The only problem is that it can be slow (USB 1.1) and that it does not support HD Jpeg (all files will be compressed to 720x480 then upscaled).

Some of the key ingrediants of a good DVD player are its de-interlacing capabilities, its ability to handle multiple cadences (Film based 3:2 pulldown and 2:2 cadence are the most important), and overall picture clarity (this includes CUE and Y/C Delay response, sharpness, color reproduction and so forth).

For the most part, the DV-970HD passes many of the criteria of a great DVD player, but fails two primary catagories.

First, the de-interlacing aspects are lower than that of the current "High Score" player: the OPDV971H. Because youa are more prone to see inginterlacing and aliasing errors with the DV-970HD, the overall picture quality is much lower.

Second, the DV-970HD does not support proper film based 2:2 Cadence support, which means that your PAL films will be very jagged compared to their NTSC counterparts.

These errors, and more, can be compensated for by an external scaler, which is why OPPO recommends the DV-970HD for this type of application.

I'm looking for a sub $200 up-converting DVD player to use with my Vizio 37" LCD HD set and the DV-970HD seemed like it would fit the bill. For my size screen, I don't think I'd miss the Faroudja DCDi, but I do have a lot of PAL movies and I'm worried about this statement above about no support for proper iflm absed 2:2 cadence.

What kind of "jaggies" am I going to have on the DV-970HD watching PAL DVD's? Is it going to be dramatic when comapred to the 971H? I like the 970 because of the HDMI output, and SACD/DVD-A support. I don't have any SACD or DVD-A disks, but the support is nice, so that really leaves the HDMI as another key seller, and the $50 cheaper price.

But ultimately, I don't want to have any crazy sacrifice in quality based on my DVD selection, of which PAL is a part.

2:2 cadence is only a concern with PAL, correct?

No, there is video based DVDs that use 2:2. Anything that was originally filmed in 30fps should be 2:2 encoded, so most television stuff.

So, Region 1 film-based DVDs are never 2-2?

2:2 Cadence manifests itself on older european titles(Pre 01), Currently, it's not widely used, and players without it are perfectly acceptable for general viewing.

However, if you happen to be someone who watches a very very large amount of pal video, especially older european titles, you might want to invest in a player capable of decoding that cadence. The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding.

If you happen to be using a scaler, it doens't really matter, as any decent scaler will take care of the 2:2 for you.

If you are not using a scaler, I highly recommend the 971H instead.I had a Panny S97 and got irritated by the MB so I sold it. As the 971 apparently has the same level of MB then I've avoided it.

Some of the key ingrediants of a good DVD player are its de-interlacing capabilities, its ability to handle multiple cadences (Film based 3:2 pulldown and 2:2 cadence are the most important), and overall picture clarity (this includes CUE and Y/C Delay response, sharpness, color reproduction and so forth).

For the most part, the DV-970HD passes many of the criteria of a great DVD player, but fails two primary catagories.

First, the de-interlacing aspects are lower than that of the current "High Score" player: the OPDV971H. Because youa are more prone to see inginterlacing and aliasing errors with the DV-970HD, the overall picture quality is much lower.

Second, the DV-970HD does not support proper film based 2:2 Cadence support, which means that your PAL films will be very jagged compared to their NTSC counterparts.

These errors, and more, can be compensated for by an external scaler, which is why OPPO recommends the DV-970HD for this type of application.Is it possible/likely that the 2:2 cadence deficiency will be fixed by a firmware update?

So, Region 1 film-based DVDs are never 2-2?

That is correct.

Is it possible/likely that the 2:2 cadence deficiency will be fixed by a firmware update?

I've personally never seen this fixed in a MTK chipset, though some members on these forums have stated that Pioneer and others have fixed 2:2 Cadence support, so I don't really know what stipulations there are (such as chipsets and software requirements).

What kind of "jaggies" am I going to have on the DV-970HD watching PAL DVD's? Is it going to be dramatic when comapred to the 971H? I like the 970 because of the HDMI output, and SACD/DVD-A support. I don't have any SACD or DVD-A disks, but the support is nice, so that really leaves the HDMI as another key seller, and the $50 cheaper price.

It is hard to say exactly what extent of aliasing errors you will see, as a well mastered DVD will have less issues (due to better quality and flagging) than a poorly mastered DVD. However, you should notice a big difference between the two when it comes to diagnal lines, as they are the hardest to eliminate. Anything 20 degress (negative and positive) of 0 (horizontal) and 180 (vertical) should be nearly identical. But anything beyond that will illustrate the difference.

Cambridge Audio DV89 (MTK) with non-proper 2:2 Cadence (http://home.comcast.net/~lost-toys/dvd89.jpg)*
Denon 2900 (Faroudja) with proper Film 2:2 Cadence (http://home.comcast.net/~lost-toys/2900.jpg)*

Notice the jagged horizontal lines on the floor in the DV89 picture, but not in the 2900 picture.
*Credit of photos go to shortround on the AV Forums.

FIrst Impressions:

970hd 480i HDMI>VP30>Sammie HLP5685w

Very impressed.
What I noticed right away is the clean video...very little noise. :)
Smoother film-like look...much less of a digital look on the HDMI output than expected.
Haven't done any tweaking in the VP yet...straight out of the box.
Easy setup with the OSD.
Also very fast with commands from the remote (which I like as well).

$150?
Man, this is a steal. :cool:

This has been a very informative thread, thanks everyone for the input. I have an older TV that only supports component inputs, there has been a lot of talk about the digital outputs on this unit but has anyone had a chance to review the component output on this unit? The 971 only supported 480i component and I understand the 970HD will do 480p but how does it compare with other universal players like the Pio 588 (which was the other unit I was looking at)?

I am not sure, however for component only output, other players like Denon 1920 or 2910 could potentially give you a better performance....

Oppo specifically designed/engineered the player for digital connections and that is where it excels at, specifically at this price point.

However, the 971/970 would be a great choice if you are eventually going to upgrade to a digital display capable of taking in DVI/HDMI .....

I had a 971 and I have ordered the 970 to be used with an external scaler....

Is this player good thru the component section?

Does it do more than 480p thru component?

FIrst Impressions:

970hd 480i HDMI>VP30>Sammie HLP5685w

Very impressed.
What I noticed right away is the clean video...very little noise. :)
Smoother film-like look...much less of a digital look on the HDMI output than expected.
Haven't done any tweaking in the VP yet...straight out of the box.


What previous player are you comparing it to? I like the first response with a external scaler is positive I'm just trying to get a reference point.

Thanks,
Jeff

Is this player good thru the component section?

Does it do more than 480p thru component?

Component is very good. Excellent color, passes blacker than black. It will upconvert through component *if* the disc is not copy protected.

Paul

FIrst Impressions:
What I noticed right away is the clean video...very little noise.
Smoother film-like look...much less of a digital look on the HDMI output than expected.
Glad your first impression was a good one. Based on your remarks, I assume you were not comparing 480i HDMI to SDI through your VP30?

/steve

That is correct.

Not quite true - "Around The World In 80 Days" and "Oklahoma" are both 30FPS 2-2.

Well to be fair, you also spent an additional $2000 to get that picture. Minus the video processor in the middle, is not going to give you the same picture.

FIrst Impressions:

970hd 480i HDMI>VP30>Sammie HLP5685w

Very impressed.
What I noticed right away is the clean video...very little noise. :)
Smoother film-like look...much less of a digital look on the HDMI output than expected.
Haven't done any tweaking in the VP yet...straight out of the box.
Easy setup with the OSD.
Also very fast with commands from the remote (which I like as well).

$150?
Man, this is a steal. :cool:

Well to be fair, you also spent an additional $2000 to get that picture. Minus the video processor in the middle, is not going to give you the same picture.
True, but to also be fair there have been several posts asking for feedback from people using the 970 to feed 480i to a video processor - after all, that's one of the things that video processor users are most interested in.

Thanks for those pictures Neuromancer, that really helps illustrate the issue. Reminds me of watching football games on early HD broadcasts and seeing the yard lines all jagged.

At this point, I don't think that kind of issue will be enough of a trade-off to not get the 970. The HDMI->HDMI capability and $50 savings outweight some jaggies I think.

I guess the other thing to consider is my TV has the "odd" resolution of 1366x768 (Vizio 37" LCD). I plan to never buy an external scaler. The TV has HDMI input on it, and I will eventually upgrade to the newest 38xx series Denon w/HDMI switching (probably a year out, so likely a newer revision by then). With that in mind, is there any reason the 971 would be preferred over the 970, excluding the 2:2 cadence support.

Stimby, can you elaborate a little more on this post:

2:2 Cadence manifests itself on older european titles(Pre 01), Currently, it's not widely used, and players without it are perfectly acceptable for general viewing.

However, if you happen to be someone who watches a very very large amount of pal video, especially older european titles, you might want to invest in a player capable of decoding that cadence. The Oppo 971H supports 2:2 decoding.

If you happen to be using a scaler, it doens't really matter, as any decent scaler will take care of the 2:2 for you.

If you are not using a scaler, I highly recommend the 971H instead.


When you said "older european titles", how old are we talking? Most of my PAL stuff is within the past 2 years . Are these going to be 2:2 Cadence?

This is a great thread. I am still new at this, but have learned a lot. I ordered the 970HD last night after reading through about half of this thread. Now, I have finished reading the thread and am having second thoughts. I may want to canecl and order the 971H. I am basically looking for a good upconverting DVD player with HDMI that can play NTSC and PAL videos. The discerning adults in the family watch NTSC content exclusively, but the 5-year-old watches a lot of children's cartoons in PAL.

1. Will the lack of 2:2 coversion bother my 5-year-old or will this only be noticed by discerning viewer?

2. Is the 2:2 conversion only an issue if you have the dvd player convert from PAL to NTSC? My Panny TH-42PHD8UK can take a PAL signal directly from the DVD player. Would that eliminate the need for 2:2 cadence conversion?

3. The gist of the thread is that the DV-970HD is great if you have an external scaler, but only adequate without one. I don't have a $2,000 scaler, but I do have an upconverting AV Receiver (JVC RX-D702B) and a TV (Panny TH-42PHD8UK) that is supposed to be excellent at upconcerting 480i feeds. Will I get a excellent NTSC viewing performance with the DV-970HD and my other components or am I better off with the 971H?

4. Finally, I have been hesitant to buy the 971H, because my receiver is known to be fickle with HDMI passthrough. I was afraid that I might have trouble using the 971H's DVI out, rather than a true HDMI out? Is this concern unfounded?

So, Region 1 film-based DVDs are never 2-2?

I've never seen a film based region 1 DVD that was 2-2, that is for sure.

This is a great thread. I am still new at this, but have learned a lot. I ordered the 970HD last night after reading through about half of this thread. Now, I have finished reading the thread and am having second thoughts. I may want to canecl and order the 971H. I am basically looking for a good upconverting DVD player with HDMI that can play NTSC and PAL videos. The discerning adults in the family watch NTSC content exclusively, but the 5-year-old watches a lot of children's cartoons in PAL.

1. Will the lack of 2:2 coversion bother my 5-year-old or will this only be noticed by discerning viewer?

2. Is the 2:2 conversion only an issue if you have the dvd player convert from PAL to NTSC? My Panny TH-42PHD8UK can take a PAL signal directly from the DVD player. Would that eliminate the need for 2:2 cadence conversion?

3. The gist of the thread is that the DV-970HD is great if you have an external scaler, but only adequate without one. I don't have a $2,000 scaler, but I do have an upconverting AV Receiver (JVC RX-D702B) and a TV (Panny TH-42PHD8UK) that is supposed to be excellent at upconcerting 480i feeds. Will I get a excellent NTSC viewing performance with the DV-970HD and my other components or am I better off with the 971H?

4. Finally, I have been hesitant to buy the 971H, because my receiver is known to be fickle with HDMI passthrough. I was afraid that I might have trouble using the 971H's DVI out, rather than a true HDMI out? Is this concern unfounded?

If your intent is to use the player to upconvert, you're right. The 970HD's scaler is apparently good, but not best of breed. The 971H would be a better choice, but your Panasonic display is susceptible to the Faroudja macroblocking bug. I don't know how serious a problem this really is, but you might want to do a search of the standard definition DVD forum. This problem has been widely and actively discussed. You may want to consider the new Sony NS75, which, by all reports, is an excellent upconverter that does not suffer from the macrovision bug.

If in the end you feel your display's scaler is adequate, then the 970HD outputting 480i over HDMI is probably the best way to go, assuming the 2-2 conversion issue isn't a show-stopper for you.

Just my $.02.

/steve

What previous player are you comparing it to? I like the first response with a external scaler is positive I'm just trying to get a reference point.



Let me try answer some of the questions you all have asked...

1) The picture I am comparing it to is my Onkyo sp1000 (which is considered one the best players regardless of price).
2) The Onkyo has over the last 20 months been fed directly into the Sammie with an upconverted 720p signal.
Recently acquired a DVDO VP30 and have been feeding it various resolutions from the Onkyo's HDMI output (as well 480i/p from component).
3) I have no experience with an SDI player...so I can't make a comparison.
4) The value of an VP is much more than simply processing dvds...it can process all video sources, and great switching to boot.

There are many guys on this thread that have a lot of technical expertise.
Although I have learned at great deal from AVS Forum over the years, I defer to them.
My experience is only from the POV of an HT hobbyist with a wee bit of knowledge. :)

I've got the 971 currently, and it looks great on my JVC 61" DILA TV, but I'm looking at the 970 primarily because of the discrete codes, but I have two questions

when using the SDI mod (I'm looking at installing it on my 971 as a friend has done it and it looks great on his JVC) and puttiing it through a VP-30 it bypasses the internal video processing chips, making the argument between the two players based on that moot right?

and, if I use the internal ones, will I actually notice a difference between the two with my screen?

the TV is calibrated and looks great by the way :)

Let me try answer some of the questions you all have asked...

1) The picture I am comparing it to is my Onkyo sp1000 (which is considered one the best players regardless of price).
2) The Onkyo has over the last 20 months been fed directly into the Sammie with an upconverted 720p signal.
Recently acquired a DVDO VP30 and have been feeding it various resolutions from the Onkyo's HDMI output (as well 480i/p from component).
3) I have no experience with an SDI player...so I can't make a comparison.


Oink, Good enough. Some of the things videophile's complain/comment on I wouldn't notice unless pointed out to me so I wasn't looking for that much detail. But to say it looks as good or better then a $1500+ player is quite a compliment for a $150 player.

Are you running your vp30 with a 102 card? Have you found any irregularities with the picture at all? I've found typically with the VP30 if their is a problem with the source it tends to enhance/manifest the problem in those areas.

when using the SDI mod (I'm looking at installing it on my 971 as a friend has done it and it looks great on his JVC) and puttiing it through a VP-30 it bypasses the internal video processing chips, making the argument between the two players based on that moot right?

Not quite right. Unlike the SDI mod'd 971H, the 480i HDMI signal will pass through the 970HD's image enhancement (brightness, sharpness, contrast, etc.) circuitry on the way to the VP-30. Whether or not passing through this circuitry degrades picture quality somewhat would be interesting to know. So far, Josh and Stacey have reported earlier in this thread that their SDI mod'd Denon and Panasonic players have a superior image to the 970HD's 480i HDMI.

Oink is comparing the 970HD's 480i HDMI to Onkyo component 480i into the same external processor. Good to know, but not quite an apples to apples comparison. I'd be interested to see how the 970 HD's 480i over component compares to the Onkyo's 480i over component into the same scaler.

/steve

hello all. i recently purchased a panasonic th42px60u and love the picture so far with my 4 year old sony 480i player over component. thinking about an upconverting player. is the board on the display good enough to just feed the 480i thru the hdmi from this new oppo, or will i notice any difference at all. still very new to all of this. thanks. heard bad things about the previous oppo with the panny's due to the macro thing. i guess i am not sure if a upconverting player is worth it.

1. Will the lack of 2:2 coversion bother my 5-year-old or will this only be noticed by discerning viewer?

A child will not be as discerning as an adult. I know plenty of children who still watch VHS tapes. To a child, as long as they are able to watch their favorite show in a reasonable quality (ie they can make out the characters) then they will be happy.

2. Is the 2:2 conversion only an issue if you have the dvd player convert from PAL to NTSC? My Panny TH-42PHD8UK can take a PAL signal directly from the DVD player. Would that eliminate the need for 2:2 cadence conversion?

The 2:2 Cadence issue is for all PAL playback, converted or not. However, if your television can do 2:2 Cadence internally, then it will be less of an issue.

3. The gist of the thread is that the DV-970HD is great if you have an external scaler, but only adequate without one. I don't have a $2,000 scaler, but I do have an upconverting AV Receiver (JVC RX-D702B) and a TV (Panny TH-42PHD8UK) that is supposed to be excellent at upconcerting 480i feeds. Will I get a excellent NTSC viewing performance with the DV-970HD and my other components or am I better off with the 971H?

You will be better off with the OPDV971H, but you will also have to worry about macroblocking. If macroblocking is a concern for you, then you will want to stick with the DV-970HD and take a little penalty hit in de-interlacing performance for an overall picture quality increase.

4. Finally, I have been hesitant to buy the 971H, because my receiver is known to be fickle with HDMI passthrough. I was afraid that I might have trouble using the 971H's DVI out, rather than a true HDMI out? Is this concern unfounded?

It is very founded. If the receiver was not designed with the DVI specifications in mind for their HDMI input, you could end up not resolving an image. This is something you may have to consult JVC or another thread for further information.

. You may want to consider the new Sony NS75, which, by all reports, is an excellent upconverter that does not suffer from the macrovision bug.

The Sony NS75 does not do Region 2 playback, let alone PAL, so it is not recommended for trapedui, who needs it for PAL playback for his daughter.

hello all. i recently purchased a panasonic th42px60u and love the picture so far with my 4 year old sony 480i player over component. thinking about an upconverting player. is the board on the display good enough to just feed the 480i thru the hdmi from this new oppo, or will i notice any difference at all. still very new to all of this. thanks. heard bad things about the previous oppo with the panny's due to the macro thing. i guess i am not sure if a upconverting player is worth it.

If you are very happy with your current results, then replacing your DVD player may not be an option you persue.

The Sony NS75 does not do Region 2 playback, let alone PAL, so it is not recommended for trapedui, who needs it for PAL playback for his daughter.

Doh! Forgot the Sony's don't support PAL playback.

If he still wants a non-macroblocking upconverter, then perhaps trapedui can try the new Pio 490V or wait for the Pio 696V next month, which promises improved PAL performance and SACD and DVD-A playback at the same MSRP of the 970HD. Both also offer 480i over HDMI if he wants to go that route.

/steve

So this player will work well with the Samsung DLP's with macroblocking issues? And the pricepoint is great, for an upconverting palyer. I currently have a 480p player through component. and have minimized macroblocking by calibration.
One newb question though: Why do I want a 480i HDMI signal going to my Samsung DLP?
I am assuming I want to let the TV do the upscaling?
What major retailer offers this player?

Hi..I just ordered the 971 from Oppo and I will be running HDMI into a Sony 60" SXRD.

If anyone has some setting preferences on the Oppo they would like to share that would be welcomed.

Lance

A child will not be as discerning as an adult. I know plenty of children who still watch VHS tapes. To a child, as long as they are able to watch their favorite show in a reasonable quality (ie they can make out the characters) then they will be happy.
In my usage, I'm more tolerant of PQ problems with PAL playback because often it is a matter of no PAL playback at all vs playback with some artifacts. For NTSC playback I like to have the major artifacts addressed.

Hi..I just ordered the 971 from Oppo and I will be running HDMI into a Sony 60" SXRD.

If anyone has some setting preferences on the Oppo they would like to share that would be welcomed.

Lance

OPDV971H users generally prefer to turn off TrueLife and leave all other video options Off or "0".

One newb question though: Why do I want a 480i HDMI signal going to my Samsung DLP?
I am assuming I want to let the TV do the upscaling?
What major retailer offers this player?

The only time you want to feed something a 480i signal is if you want an external scaler (such as a video processing unit or a television) to do all the de-interlacing, scaling, and other high end processing.

No major retailers carry the OPPO brand at this time. Their sales are purely online.

Oink, Good enough. Some of the things videophile's complain/comment on I wouldn't notice unless pointed out to me so I wasn't looking for that much detail. But to say it looks as good or better then a $1500+ player is quite a compliment for a $150 player.

Are you running your vp30 with a 102 card? Have you found any irregularities with the picture at all? I've found typically with the VP30 if their is a problem with the source it tends to enhance/manifest the problem in those areas.


Jeff,

I wouldn't say that the Oppo looks better straight up...I would say that feeding my VP30 ABT102 combo 480i HDMI from the Oppo looks better than the Onkyo feeding it 480i component.
In other words, the Onkyo comes off second best when:
Onkyo(any output or resolution)>VP30 ABT102 or bypassed>Sammie HLP5685w
versus
Oppo 480i HDMI>VP30 ABT102>Sammie HLP5685w.

However, I would NOT say the Oppo is a better player than the Onkyo.
In the above application it is IMO.

i'm assuming my new panny plasma has some form of external scaler built in, so the 970hd shooting a 480i via hdmi is the best bet?

Not quite right. Unlike the SDI mod'd 971H, the 480i HDMI signal will pass through the 970HD's image enhancement (brightness, sharpness, contrast, etc.) circuitry on the way to the VP-30. Whether or not passing through this circuitry degrades picture quality somewhat would be interesting to know. So far, Josh and Stacey have reported earlier in this thread that their SDI mod'd Denon and Panasonic players have a superior image to the 970HD's 480i HDMI.

Oink is comparing the 970HD's 480i HDMI to Onkyo component 480i into the same external processor. Good to know, but not quite an apples to apples comparison. I'd be interested to see how the 970 HD's 480i over component compares to the Onkyo's 480i over component into the same scaler.

/steve

I had read in another thread that modding the 971 was iffy. some folks report problems and I spoke with the techs at Lumagen who said it did not work for them. If it does work, I would be interested

OPDV971H users generally prefer to turn off TrueLife and leave all other video options Off or "0".


Many thanks!

Lance

i'm assuming my new panny plasma has some form of external scaler built in, so the 970hd shooting a 480i via hdmi is the best bet?

I got the 970HD yesterday and watched "Nine Lives" DVD on my Panasonic TH-42PX60U plasma, 480i via HDMI. It looked very good, very film-like. Although this is a preliminary assessment based on watching one DVD for about two hours, I would venture to say that the internal scaler and deinterlacer in my Panasonic is very good indeed.

I had read in another thread that modding the 971 was iffy. some folks report problems and I spoke with the techs at Lumagen who said it did not work for them. If it does work, I would be interested
I can now say that with the VP30 and the ABT102 de-interlacer board, using the Pixel Magic SDI board gives fantastic results. See the OPPO with SDI modification thread and start here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7709747&&#post7709747

Please also note the post about the 970HD being nowhere as easy to mod as the 971H, near the end of the thread - not that anyone would readily contemplate doing such a thing, as modding a 971H give you the best of both worlds. A non-HDCP DVI output de-interlaced by Faroudja to feed directly to displays at 480/576p, 720p and 1080i, and an independant and simultaneous (non-HDCP - I know there isn't such as thing as HDCP SDI - just stressing the point) SDI 480/576 interlaced output to a VP of your choice.

I'm currently using a region-freed Yamaha S5751 (same as S550 & S5750) for viewing PAL DVDs. How can I tell if it has the 2:2 cadence deficiency for PAL and thus determine if the Oppo 970 will be any better or worse?

Jeff,

I wouldn't say that the Oppo looks better straight up...I would say that feeding my VP30 ABT102 combo 480i HDMI from the Oppo looks better than the Onkyo feeding it 480i component.
In other words, the Onkyo comes off second best when:
Onkyo(any output or resolution)>VP30 ABT102 or bypassed>Sammie HLP5685w
versus
Oppo 480i HDMI>VP30 ABT102>Sammie HLP5685w.

However, I would NOT say the Oppo is a better player than the Onkyo.
In the above application it is IMO.

It would be nice if you can compare this with an SDI player.

I'm currently using a region-freed Yamaha S5751 (same as S550 & S5750) for viewing PAL DVDs. How can I tell if it has the 2:2 cadence deficiency for PAL and thus determine if the Oppo 970 will be any better or worse?

The best thing to do is to use a PAL and NTSC disc from the same source (ie. movie).

Or, run a PAL DVD and notice the diagnol aliasing performance. If diagnol lines are clean, then the DV-970HD will be a worse product. If it is jagged, then they are the same performance wise.

I like the idea of replacing my Sony DVP-900V player with one of the Oppos since I now have a Panasonic 50PX600U. The new 970 may be more compatible with a Panasonic from what I read but the 971 has better processing? At $150 vs. $200 its not all about price. I just don't know which one will do the best playback on my set w/o issues. Perhaps the macroblocking issue is resolved on the 60 / 600U series? Anyone have advice which player to pull the trigger on? :)

The best thing to do is to use a PAL and NTSC disc from the same source (ie. movie).

Or, run a PAL DVD and notice the diagnol aliasing performance. If diagnol lines are clean, then the DV-970HD will be a worse product. If it is jagged, then they are the same performance wise.Ok, I'll try it. Thanks. I think I have two or three 4:3 PAL DVDs that have the same programs on them that I also have on NTSC DVDs.

It works fairly well. The only problem is that it can be slow (USB 1.1) and that it does not support HD Jpeg (all files will be compressed to 720x480 then upscaled).

Do I undestand right that the Oppo has USB 1.1? That would be a a big step backwards.

inomics

The MTK chipset that is being used is designed around a 1.1 standard. OPPO would have had to use another chipset (further delaying the DVD unit) if they wanted 2.0 USB support.

I can now say that with the VP30 and the ABT102 de-interlacer board, using the Pixel Magic SDI board gives fantastic results. See the OPPO with SDI modification thread and start here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7709747&&#post7709747

Please also note the post about the 970HD being nowhere as easy to mod as the 971H, near the end of the thread - not that anyone would readily contemplate doing such a thing, as modding a 971H give you the best of both worlds. A non-HDCP DVI output de-interlaced by Faroudja to feed directly to displays at 480/576p, 720p and 1080i, and an independant and simultaneous (non-HDCP - I know there isn't such as thing as HDCP SDI - just stressing the point) SDI 480/576 interlaced output to a VP of your choice.

Thanks Phil, but I am using the Lumagen HDQ and it seems from the thread the Lumagen does not handle the non standard SDI. :(

...That would be a a big step backwards.
How many $150 DVD players have a USB connection? That sort of rings the same as all those that downed the 971 because it was a DVI rather than HDMI!

not to mention, how many players actually use the USB connection that they have included. and for the DVI instead of HDMI, who cares? HDMI only does 2 channel stereo instead of surround sound right now anyway (yes I know of the new standard, but from what I read I don't see it included in this DVD player. Please correct me if I'm wrong).

What just bums me out is that they left the faroudja chip behind :(
anybody know why they ditched that chip?

Looks like the 970 is a hot seller. Its already back ordered. :eek:

not to mention, how many players actually use the USB connection that they have included. and for the DVI instead of HDMI, who cares? HDMI only does 2 channel stereo instead of surround sound right now anyway (yes I know of the new standard, but from what I read I don't see it included in this DVD player. Please correct me if I'm wrong).

What just bums me out is that they left the faroudja chip behind :(
anybody know why they ditched that chip?

Because it was made primarily for external video processor people, hence 480i over HDMI.

I think it's internal video processing looks just fine on my Samsung HLN 617W(61"720p DLP). I have it connected via a DVI->HDMI cable. Very smooth, detailed, and filmlike. Better PQ than i would have thought at this price point. Not to mention it plays just about everything you throw at it. Very fast to respond to the remote control. Navigates DVD menus better than any player i have had so far (the Denon 2900 was pretty quick too). I have owned over 30 DVD players so i have a pretty good range of units to compare. So far this player is a keeper. :)

This is a very good -- perhaps great --- SACD player! Last night I listened to Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" (the SACD version of the RCA Living Stereo recording) and it sounded fabulous. I realize that in my hookup -- 970 to Panny plasma TV via HDMI to Acoustic Energy Aego2 speakers via Panny's audio-out RCA jacks -- I am not listening to a "pure" SACD signal. My understanding is that the 970 converts DSD to 2-channel PCM, and my TV is converting PCM to analog. Nevertheless, the results were very satisfying. The sound was very pure, lifelike and dynamic. Wind instruments, in particular, sounded very lifelike. The sound was free of digital artifacts; great bass, extended and natural treble, natural tonality in the midrange.

I also tried the "audio only" feature, in which the player's video circuitry is off. I frankly could not hear a difference, but this is on a single, relatively limited audition.

Acoustic Energy Aego2's aren't exactly discerning speakers. I can't imagine hearing any difference.

This is a very good -- perhaps great --- SACD player! Last night I listened to Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" (the SACD version of the RCA Living Stereo recording) and it sounded fabulous. I realize that in my hookup -- 970 to Panny plasma TV via HDMI to Acoustic Energy Aego2 speakers via Panny's audio-out RCA jacks -- I am not listening to a "pure" SACD signal. My understanding is that the 970 converts DSD to 2-channel PCM, and my TV is converting PCM to analog. Nevertheless, the results were very satisfying. The sound was very pure, lifelike and dynamic. Wind instruments, in particular, sounded very lifelike. The sound was free of digital artifacts; great bass, extended and natural treble, natural tonality in the midrange.

I also tried the "audio only" feature, in which the player's video circuitry is off. I frankly could not hear a difference, but this is on a single, relatively limited audition.

How many $150 DVD players have a USB connection? That sort of rings the same as all those that downed the 971 because it was a DVI rather than HDMI!

Sorry, my intention was not to tell that 970 is not a great player for the money. Given that in PC world 2.0 is a standard since 3 years or so, I justed wanted to clarify, which USB has the Oppo.

Does actually 971 has 1.1 too?

Because it was made primarily for external video processor people, hence 480i over HDMI.

If the 970 is primarily made for external video processor people, then for me is the idea to connect a 150$ player to a 2000$ scaler (price of DVDO iScan VP-30) not verly clear? Do I miss here something?

inomics

Hello,
I too have the Sony SXRD (60") and am trying to decide between the Oppo 970HD or the 971H. What's the difference or benifit with either model? Picture quality is my priority. I intend to hook the HDMI direct to the TV and take the optical out to an older DD/DTS receiciver for sound. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

This is a very good -- perhaps great --- SACD player!
I think to qualify as "great" it would have to pass 5.1 channels of audio.



Which brings up a question. Does the 970 pass SACD/DVD-A 5.1 over the analog outputs only? I noticed when I tried BIA today that the HDMI connection only showed 2 channels of PCM at 88.1 being received at my HDMI 1.1 compliant receiver. Plus, I can't get it to do anymore than 2 ch of DVD-A either. Is that by design or do I have something set wrong. It's not a big as that's not what I got the player for, but there is no indication in the documentation I've seen that would indicate that restriction. HDMI 1.1 spec is capable of 5.1 ch of audio so I'm guessing Oppo didn't include that capability in their implementation..?

Which brings up a question. Does the 970 pass SACD/DVD-A 5.1 over the analog outputs only? I noticed when I tried BIA today that the HDMI connection only showed 2 channels of PCM at 88.1 being received at my HDMI 1.1 compliant receiver. Plus, I can't get it to do anymore than 2 ch of DVD-A either. Is that by design or do I have something set wrong. It's not a big as that's not what I got the player for, but there is no indication in the documentation I've seen that would indicate that restriction. HDMI 1.1 spec is capable of 5.1 ch of audio so I'm guessing Oppo didn't include that capability in their implementation..?

I don't own the player yet, but based on post 192 of this thread it may be your settings. You might want to recheck your user guide, sections of which are quoted in this post.

I think to qualify as "great" it would have to pass 5.1 channels of audio.



Which brings up a question. Does the 970 pass SACD/DVD-A 5.1 over the analog outputs only? I noticed when I tried BIA today that the HDMI connection only showed 2 channels of PCM at 88.1 being received at my HDMI 1.1 compliant receiver. Plus, I can't get it to do anymore than 2 ch of DVD-A either. Is that by design or do I have something set wrong. It's not a big as that's not what I got the player for, but there is no indication in the documentation I've seen that would indicate that restriction. HDMI 1.1 spec is capable of 5.1 ch of audio so I'm guessing Oppo didn't include that capability in their implementation..?

Make sure HDMi and SACD is set to multi-channel, and make sure you are not using 480p (post 151, I think...bug reported). However, if you are succesful PLEASE REPORT IT.... it is groundbreaking (no stock player has reported ever sending 5.1 PCM SACD material over HDMI 1.1 even though theoretically it's possible). Hell, I think 2.0 SACD is grounbreaking, frankly.

If the 970 is primarily made for external video processor people, then for me is the idea to connect a 150$ player to a 2000$ scaler (price of DVDO iScan VP-30) not verly clear? Do I miss here something?

inomics

Put that way, you have a point. If you have neither, it may or may not make sense to plan to buy a $2000 scaler and a $150 player.

However, for those that already own a scaler, or who have a very good scaler built-in to their display unit, this player promises a path to potentially better image quality at a relatively low cost. Just how much better remains to be seen, as the 480i HDMI users share their feedback.


/steve

Hello,
I too have the Sony SXRD (60") and am trying to decide between the Oppo 970HD or the 971H. What's the difference or benifit with either model? Picture quality is my priority. I intend to hook the HDMI direct to the TV and take the optical out to an older DD/DTS receiciver for sound. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I would go with the 971 unless you're using a custom remote and are dying to have discrete on/off codes. personally, I decided to stay with the 971 as I like the faroudja chip

If the 970 is primarily made for external video processor people, then for me is the idea to connect a 150$ player to a 2000$ scaler (price of DVDO iScan VP-30) not verly clear? Do I miss here something? I haven't seen this unit yet, so I don't know how good the 480i signal via HDMI is. However, in principle a lot of the features built in to more expensive DVD players that run up cost (scaling, deinterlacing, quality SACD and DVD-Audo performance) are totally useless if you just need a digital transport to feed an external scaler. If ALL you want is good 480i video via HDMI output and digital audio output, then in principle this could be done relatively cheaply.

Whether this particular unit does this remains to be seen.

Hello,
I too have the Sony SXRD (60") and am trying to decide between the Oppo 970HD or the 971H. What's the difference or benifit with either model? Picture quality is my priority. I intend to hook the HDMI direct to the TV and take the optical out to an older DD/DTS receiciver for sound. Any suggestions would be appreciated.971 may MB-enhance on your display, 970 won't. You trade the better PQ of the 971 (due to better Faroudja deinterlacer) that may MB on your TV for what may be not quite as good PQ from the 970 with no MB. Ditto for the Sony NS75/NC85.

P.S. As you've probably noticed there are differing opinions here about Oppo vs Panny vs Sony, etc. so all you can really do is to take those differing opinions into account, come up with a shortlist and try them out to see which you like the best. I would not be surprised if some people buy both the 970 and 971 from Oppo and return the one that they prefer the least.

I think to qualify as "great" it would have to pass 5.1 channels of audio....
Are there any players that pass 5.1 or greater audio over the HDMI cable? I think most DVD players will pass stereo through the HDMI, but you need digital coax or optical to a receiver to interpret the DD and DTS formats. Most players need the six analog RCA cables to pass the DVD-A and SACD surround formats.

My Marantz Dv9600 HDMI 1.1 passes 5.1 DVD-Audio just fine. Any DVD-Audio HDMI 1.1 player should; it's part of the spec. SACD isn't; the PCM route is a road less (not reported yet) traveled.

I don't own the player yet, but based on post 192 of this thread it may be your settings. You might want to recheck your user guide, sections of which are quoted in this post.
Thanks, I'm pretty sure I set everything the way it explains in that post. I guess I'll take another stab at it.

Are there any players that pass 5.1 or greater audio over the HDMI cable? I think most DVD players will pass stereo through the HDMI, but you need digital coax or optical to a receiver to interpret the DD and DTS formats. Most players need the six analog RCA cables to pass the DVD-A and SACD surround formats.
Pretty sure the Denon 39xx series does and there's probably others like ted_b's Marantz.

My Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player passes HiRez audio in PCM format over HDMI 1.1.

Yeah, while eval'ing the 9600 I had the Denon 3910 too. It passed 5.1 DVD-Audio on HDMI 1.1. Again, all 1.1 players will, or return them.

Put that way, you have a point. If you have neither, it may or may not make sense to plan to buy a $2000 scaler and a $150 player.

However, for those that already own a scaler, or who have a very good scaler built-in to their display unit, this player promises a path to potentially better image quality at a relatively low cost. Just how much better remains to be seen, as the 480i HDMI users share their feedback.


/steve

Thanks for clarification. Well, thats right. Probably my DLP Sammy has a built in scaler/video processor. I have to find out this yet. Then 970 would be attractive for me too. In particular, because of the HDMI transport.

BTW, my Sammy has used to be sold in Europe as Samsung SP-46L6HX. Does anyone know, what is the corresponding modell in US?

inomics

Yeah, while eval'ing the 9600 I had the Denon 3910 too. It passed 5.1 DVD-Audio on HDMI 1.1. Again, all 1.1 players will, or return them.
I think to be more accurate, if the manufacturer has implemented that portion of the HDMI 1.1 spec they will. It's my understanding that HDMI 1.1 is not a guarantee that the equipment will pass 5.1, depends on the manufacturer. Not all HDMI implementations are the same.

Why does Oppo not recommend the 970 for displays over 50"? If I hook it up to my 60" display will I get bad PQ?


I just purchased the Samsung HL-S5688W, which I should have within a few weeks. Would it be fair to say that the PQ between the 970 passing through my TVs Faroudja chip would be just as good as buying a 971?

In theory, I'd think it would be better, since I'd be sending the data via HDMI.

On top of that, I'd get USB, which is important for me for listening to music.

I think to be more accurate, if the manufacturer has implemented that portion of the HDMI 1.1 spec they will. It's my understanding that HDMI 1.1 is not a guarantee that the equipment will pass 5.1, depends on the manufacturer. Not all HDMI implementations are the same.
Keenan is right, the only guarantee for HDMI 1.1 is PCM. Beyond that the audio features are optional. You need to make sure the manufacturer implemented the feature you want. Some HDMI 1.1 will pass 5.1, some won't. Both are fully HDMI 1.1 compliant.

I just purchased the Samsung HL-S5688W, which I should have within a few weeks. Would it be fair to say that the PQ between the 970 passing through my TVs Faroudja chip would be just as good as buying a 971?

In theory, I'd think it would be better, since I'd be sending the data via HDMI.

On top of that, I'd get USB, which is important for me for listening to music.

I take that back, maybe it doesn't have Faroudja.

Does anyone know what, if any, de-interlacer Samsung has built-in to these TVs and if they're any good to justify the purchase of a 970 without running through an external processor?

Early model Samsungs had "DCDi by Faroudja". Not sure if later models do or if they changed to a different deinterlacer.

...Some HDMI 1.1 will pass 5.1, some won't....
Thanks all! I guess it boils down to the connectivity of a receiver that has HDMI switching, and you can then use the simplicity of an HDMI connection from the player. Otherwise, I see no reason for 5.1 being passed to the display? Am I missing something?

Does actually 971 has 1.1 too?

Yes, it is USB 1.1. One thing you have to remember is that the PC world is concerned about extreme data transfering (external storage) which required USB 2.0, firewire, ethernet, and so forth.

A DVD player is primarily concerned with low level transfering (pictures and audio files) when using the USB interface. The only reason why you would need a 2.0 interface is to allow for higher data transfer rates for large files (DivX and so forth). USB 2.0, therefore, is less used in the AV world, and is much more expensive to impliment.

Thanks all! I guess it boils down to the connectivity of a receiver that has HDMI switching, and you can then use the simplicity of an HDMI connection from the player. Otherwise, I see no reason for 5.1 being passed to the display? Am I missing something?

Many televisions have the option of sending out a digital (opitcal or coaxial) signal to a receiver. In this instance, you can use the television, rather than the receiver, as an audio and video hub. This is particuarly useful for less technical people, as they don't have to learn to use their receiver remote control.

I take that back, maybe it doesn't have Faroudja.

Does anyone know what, if any, de-interlacer Samsung has built-in to these TVs and if they're any good to justify the purchase of a 970 without running through an external processor?

If you have a 1080i/p display, the need for a high-end de-interlacing due to the television either not supporting progressive scan, or the internal scaler will be doing all the work (1080i->1080p), as the DV-970HD will only produce a 1080i image.

I would personally recommend the DV-970HD for 1080i/p applications, because the 1080i image is sharper than the OPDV971H.

Many televisions have the option of sending out a digital (opitcal or coaxial) signal to a receiver. In this instance, you can use the television, rather than the receiver, as an audio and video hub. This is particuarly useful for less technical people, as they don't have to learn to use their receiver remote control.
I wonder when they will actually start implementing HDMI on TVs the way we consumers would expect them to. It would be much more convenient for many less technical people if the TV received 5.1 over HDMI and could act as a switching device and pass through the 5.1 through the TV out to the receiver.

As it stands almost all HDMI implementations in TVs today force 2-channel PCM from the source device to the TV, so their passthrough output is also 2-channel PCM instead of the 5.1 that most people would expect. They do however send 5.1 through the TV output if the internal ATSC or QAM tuner is used.

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I set everything the way it explains in that post. I guess I'll take another stab at it.
Played with it again and still no go. Set everything the way it's explained in the earlier post/manual, and still only get 2 ch input to the receiver. For example, a 5.1 ch disc like Brothers In Arms SACD will indicate 88.2-kHz freq, with a ch map of 2/0/0. DVD-A displays PCM/digital and and 2 ch input. When using DVD-A with another player, a Denon 5900, the receiver will report 96-kHz and proper channel mapping.

Has it been confirmed that the 970 passes SACD and DVD-A Multi-Ch over the HDMI output?

Going to try the 5.1 analog outputs next.

I wonder when they will actually start implementing HDMI on TVs the way we consumers would expect them to. It would be much more convenient for many less technical people if the TV received 5.1 over HDMI and could act as a switching device and pass through the 5.1 through the TV out to the receiver.

As it stands almost all HDMI implementations in TVs today force 2-channel PCM from the source device to the TV, so their passthrough output is also 2-channel PCM instead of the 5.1 that most people would expect. They do however send 5.1 through the TV output if the internal ATSC or QAM tuner is used.
I think part of the problem is that when HDMI first came to be it was touted as the fixall to multiple cable setups. One cable does everything...well, we know that's not true, and the fact that consumers might use some method of external audio didn't seem to be given much thought when designing HDMI. It works fine for someone with just a DVD player and a TV, but it can be very annoying for folks like us. The fact that I have to run the output of a HD-A1 through my receiver first to get the audio extracted before sending the video to a VP30 and then on to the display bugs me..but of course, it's still that miracle "one cable solution". :p

Plus, there's the sloppy control over a manufacturers implementation...but that's a whole 'nother discussion... :)

I am new to this, I just bought the 970 oppo. do i hook up the player's HDMI to the TV then out to the receiver, or do I run the player HDMI to a reciever via HDMI and then HDMI out from the reciever to the tv? I have a panny 50" 60u tv.

Kris Deering, you were testing this. Any luck?

Let's say that we use a Denon AVR-2807 with HDMI ver 1.1 input,
Would it accept DD+ and DTS HD over the HDMI input ( like from the Toshiba HD-DVD player or future model / Blu-ray player ) and still be able to use it's advanced Audyssey MultEQxt? Assuming it would this means that the DV-970HD could send DVD-Audio and SACD over HDMI and use the Audyssey MultEQxt on it also.

I am not sure were most of you stand on room correction, I personal like it..

If the DV-970HD can pass HDCD, DVD-Audio and SACD ( converted to high bitrate PCM / I'm okay with it being converted - sorry hard core DSD guys! ) over HDMI ver 1.1 which it can, and also send 480i over HDMI which it can. This would be an amazing deal. Great transport, and be a really good companion to HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

Thanks

Played with it again and still no go. Set everything the way it's explained in the earlier post/manual, and still only get 2 ch input to the receiver. For example, a 5.1 ch disc like Brothers In Arms SACD will indicate 88.2-kHz freq, with a ch map of 2/0/0. DVD-A displays PCM/digital and and 2 ch input. When using DVD-A with another player, a Denon 5900, the receiver will report 96-kHz and proper channel mapping.

Has it been confirmed that the 970 passes SACD and DVD-A Multi-Ch over the HDMI output?

Going to try the 5.1 analog outputs next.

What video resolution are you using (480p, 720i, etc.)? There is a bug at 480p (2 channel HDMI only).

Hey guys, I had my oppo unplugged for a few weeks and just switched back to to it and for some reason the image on my oppo seems off to me. I'm using the DVI to HDMI and watching it on a panny 900U projector. I have the setting on the player set to 720P. The pic has sparklies in it and moving sparklie things on light objects. I don't remember this being there before. Is there some settings I need to turn back off or tweak some things in the player?? Also, when having the player in 480P the pic is fine but when putting it at 720p or 1080i there is yellow all the way around the edges of the screen, any idea on this? Are there firmware upgrades I can get?

Uness you've had the new Oppo 970HD for a few weeks (i.e beta tester) you are in the wrong forum. This is not about the older 971.

Has it been confirmed that the 970 passes SACD and DVD-A Multi-Ch over the HDMI output?

I can confirm being able to pass multi-channel PCM over HMDMI to a receiver (Yamaha 2600 and JVC 402).

Ensure that you have changed the HDMI Audio (Setup->Audio Setup Page) to "5.1 Multi-channel". If set to "PCM" you will only get 2.0 channels, and if you set it to RAW you will not get any audio from SACD discs.

Hey guys, I had my oppo unplugged for a few weeks and just switched back to to it and for some reason the image on my oppo seems off to me. I'm using the DVI to HDMI and watching it on a panny 900U projector. I have the setting on the player set to 720P. The pic has sparklies in it and moving sparklie things on light objects. I don't remember this being there before. Is there some settings I need to turn back off or tweak some things in the player?? Also, when having the player in 480P the pic is fine but when putting it at 720p or 1080i there is yellow all the way around the edges of the screen, any idea on this? Are there firmware upgrades I can get?

Your cables are likely not efficient. Try another set of DVI-HDMI cables and try again.

...a 5.1 ch disc like Brothers In Arms SACD....Has it been confirmed that the 970 passes SACD and DVD-A Multi-Ch over the HDMI output?
My Pioneer 563A had a firmware fix for the same disc you are trying to play. Hopefully the Oppo, which I ordered this weekend, isn't going to have the same problem. The Pioneer wouldn't play some dual layer DVDs in surround sound. Jackson Brown redo of Running on Empty was another example. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing? Have you tried discs that are an SACD CD or simply DVD-A, not dual layer? Sorry, the Pioneer isn't HDMI, it's running over RCA cables, but it may be a similar thing.

converted to high bitrate PCM / I'm okay with it being converted - sorry hard core DSD guys!

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having SACD?

If you are a purist, then you would be up in arms. But one has to beable to argue that the straight DSD stream is better than the 192Khz PCM conversion. You will be hard pressed to find a difference between the two.

What video resolution are you using (480p, 720i, etc.)? There is a bug at 480p (2 channel HDMI only).
480i

Perhaps try a higher video resolution? The HDMI standard says it can only support 2 ch up to 192k or 8 ch up to 48k when using 480i with 2x pixel repetition. Try 720p to see if you can get 5.1ch.

I can confirm being able to pass multi-channel PCM over HMDMI to a receiver (Yamaha 2600 and JVC 402).

Ensure that you have changed the HDMI Audio (Setup->Audio Setup Page) to "5.1 Multi-channel". If set to "PCM" you will only get 2.0 channels, and if you set it to RAW you will not get any audio from SACD discs.
I must have a faulty unit, or either the 970 doesn't like the 3806 or vice versa.

You're talking about under SPDIF..? RAW or PCM..? It doesn't matter what I set that at, it still only passes 2 CH for both DVD-A and SACD for both settings. Also, the LPCM setting in the audio menu is inaccessible, greyed out, it's set at 48Hz and I haven't discovered any way to change it.

It seems to be passing 5.1 through the analog outputs, but with HDMI all I can achieve is 2-ch. I know the Denon 3806 is multi-channel capable over HDMI so I'm clueless what the problem could be, other than something buggy in the 970.

Perhaps try a higher video resolution? The HDMI standard says it can only support 2 ch up to 192k or 8 ch up to 48k when using 480i with 2x pixel repetition. Try 720p to see if you can get 5.1ch.
Tried 1080i and that causes the player to think the BIA SACD is a HDCD encoded disc :D , although it can't hold on to the "decoding" as the detector in the 3806 flashes HDCD on and off and there's static each time it turns on and off.

Guess I'll try calling Oppo tomorrow. Funny thing is, I don't really care if the player does either of those formats as I use my Denon 5900 for that material, but now it's become a quest to see if the Oppo will do what it's supposed to do. :p

I am new to this, I just bought the 970 oppo. do i hook up the player's HDMI to the TV then out to the receiver, or do I run the player HDMI to a reciever via HDMI and then HDMI out from the reciever to the tv? I have a panny 50" 60u tv.
Depends on whether the TV will pass multi-channel audio back out to the receiver. See sfhub's earlier post, my initial thought would be to go 970>receiver>display as going 970>display>receiver may give you only 2-ch audio.

I wonder when they will actually start implementing HDMI on TVs the way we consumers would expect them to. It would be much more convenient for many less technical people if the TV received 5.1 over HDMI and could act as a switching device and pass through the 5.1 through the TV out to the receiver.

As it stands almost all HDMI implementations in TVs today force 2-channel PCM from the source device to the TV, so their passthrough output is also 2-channel PCM instead of the 5.1 that most people would expect. They do however send 5.1 through the TV output if the internal ATSC or QAM tuner is used.

You're talking about under SPDIF..? RAW or PCM..? It doesn't matter what I set that at, it still only passes 2 CH for both DVD-A and SACD for both settings. Also, the LPCM setting in the audio menu is inaccessible, greyed out, it's set at 48Hz and I haven't discovered any way to change it.

Press Eject to change these settings. And I was talking about the HDMI Audio setup option. Make sure it is Multi-Channel and not RAW.

Yeah, check the HDMI Audio setting. It shoud be Multi-channel. Also the Down-mix in speaker setup page must be set to 5.1ch in order to get 5.1ch over HDMI.

The SPDIF LPCM sample rate can only be changed if HDMI Audio is set to Off.

Press Eject to change these settings. And I was talking about the HDMI Audio setup option. Make sure it is Multi-Channel and not RAW.
Under Audio Setup Page>HDMI Audio, there is only SPDIF, MultiChannel, or OFF selections, no RAW listed there. The only RAW I've seen is under the SPDIF Output setting further up the page.

Yeah, check the HDMI Audio setting. It shoud be Multi-channel. Also the Down-mix in speaker setup page must be set to 5.1ch in order to get 5.1ch over HDMI.

The SPDIF LPCM sample rate can only be changed if HDMI Audio is set to Off.
Both settings are as you indicate.

Yes, it is USB 1.1.
...
A DVD player is primarily concerned with low level transferring (pictures and audio files) when using the USB interface. The only reason why you would need a 2.0 interface is to allow for higher data transfer rates for large files (DivX and so forth). USB 2.0, therefore, is less used in the AV world, and is much more expensive to implement.

That's right. 1.1 is better than (1.0) and than no USB. I think earlier in the thread somebody (I do not remember the post no) already reported playing trough USB. Is the transfer rate of 1.1 really sufficient to play back DVDs, CDs, MP3 and DivX? Has anyone tested this? Does the quality suffer?

USB 1.x supports data transfer rates of 12 Mbps. USB 2.0 is capable of supporting a transfer rate of up to 480 Mbps.

inomics

It is good enough for JPEG and MP3 playback, but I had problems with a USB discdrive sending DivX files. I did not try a flash based DivX transport.

...I know the Denon 3806 is multi-channel capable over HDMI so I'm clueless what the problem could be, other than something buggy in the 970.
The Denon has a known bug with the HDMI switching, and will soon release a Mark II version of their receivers. Could this be your problem? Did you try other a connection loop that didn't involve the video switching if there is one?

Does the internal scaler and deinterlacer of both of the 971 and the 970 provide superior PQ to say the internal scaler of the Sony GWIII? Just trying to decide if it is worth it since the GWIII has to scale to 1366x768 prior to output. If so, would I be better off getting the 971 over the 970?

Does the internal scaler and deinterlacer of both of the 971 and the 970 provide superior PQ to say the internal scaler of the Sony GWIII? Just trying to decide if it is worth it since the GWIII has to scale to 1366x768 prior to output. If so, would I be better off getting the 971 over the 970?

It's possible your GWIII has the same built-in scaling algorithms as the NS75 DVD player. If so, you've got a great scaler and you may want to try the 970HD feeding your display 480i over HDMI or component. That should get you right from 480i to 768p with no extra upscaling required.

/steve

I've seen repeated references to the 971H's Faroudja macroblocking bug -- I just ordered one of these (arrives tomorrow) but am also now considering the 970HD instead. My TV is the 70" Sony 70XBR950 3-LCD RP, and I don't have any idea how good its internal scaler is compared to DCDi. I also have a Sony STR-DA9000ES with two DVI inputs that I'll be using to switch the TV's one DVI input between the Oppo and a Scientific Atlanta DVR.

I understand my TV's LCD panels are something like 1280x788, so does that mean the TV will be rescaling a 720p signal produced by the Oppo? If so, does that mean I'm really scaling 480i -> 720p -> 788p and wouldn't it be better to have the Oppo output 480i (or 480p?) and let the TV do the scaling? Is the Faroudja chipset even used? If not, then would there be a difference between the 971H and 970HD? I wouldn't mind the SACD support, although I've been waiting for a budget SACD player that has the ILINK output since my STR-DA9000ES already converts everything to DSD internally anyway.

So... in my situation, should I consider returning the 971H and switching to the 970HD or maybe waiting for a successor that has the best of all worlds? I'll try the different resolutions, but sometimes the differences are so subtle that I'll just drive myself nuts trying to see them. The constant references the the Faroudja macroblocking bug do concern me, though...

If so, does that mean I'm really scaling 480i -> 720p -> 788p and wouldn't it be better to have the Oppo output 480i (or 480p?) and let the TV do the scaling?

Yes and yes, at least in theory. (And it's 768P, btw.)

I don't know how good your display's internal scaler is, but as I said above, if it's as good as the Sony scaler built-in to the NS75 DVD player, the 970HD into your set via 480i HDMI (to DVI) might be an excellent solution.

/steve

So... in my situation, should I consider returning the 971H and switching to the 970HD or maybe waiting for a successor that has the best of all worlds? I'll try the different resolutions, but sometimes the differences are so subtle that I'll just drive myself nuts trying to see them. The constant references the the Faroudja macroblocking bug do concern me, though...

I've been going through the same thoughts you have been. After reading as much as I can about both products, including exchanging a couple of emails with Oppo, I've decided to get the 971 as opposed to the 970. I also have a Sony RP-LCD display (50XBR800), and a SA 8300HD STB DVR. For me, I'd rather the capability of using the upconvert option fo the DVD player and seeing for myself if I prefer the upconverting of the display or the DVD player. I don't know which one I'll prefer, but from the testing I've done with my 8300HD and changing the mode from pass through to upconvert, I prefer the upconvert picture done by the 8300 rather than done by the display. Also, as far as SACD and DVD-A is concerned, the 971 does play DVD-A discs, so you're covered there unless you like SACD better. I don't really know the differences between the two formats, though.

Also, Oppo in their email to me said that macroblocking is NOT an issue with LCD displays. I don't have any personal experience with this (i'm sure others will chime in on this if their experience is different), but that's what they told me.

I thought I would share this with you because I bet we are not the only ones struggling with this.

Good luck in your decision!

For Pioneer Elite Pro730-HDI (64" CRT RPTV with HDMI), I try to decide which Oppo (970HD or 971H) would give me better picture quality. The Pioneer Elite TV has an excellent internal scaler but not sure how it compares to the Oppo's.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

It's possible your GWIII has the same built-in scaling algorithms as the NS75 DVD player. If so, you've got a great scaler and you may want to try the 970HD feeding your display 480i over HDMI or component. That should get you right from 480i to 768p with no extra upscaling required.

/steve

I wish there was some way to confirm one way or the other. The GWIII is about 3 years old, and the NS75 is less than a year I believe, so I would assume the scaler would be better on the NS75.

The Denon has a known bug with the HDMI switching, and will soon release a Mark II version of their receivers. Could this be your problem? Did you try other a connection loop that didn't involve the video switching if there is one?
Do you have any specifics about the bug and about the Mark II version? The HDMI ports work fine with the Toshiba HD-A1 which also sends multi-channel PCM.

The only other connection scenario would be to leave the VP30 out of the loop and go direct to the display.

I wish there was some way to confirm one way or the other. The GWIII is about 3 years old, and the NS75 is less than a year I believe, so I would assume the scaler would be better on the NS75.

The best way would be to audition both solutions, but if you can't and your GWIII is 50" or more, the safest bet is the 971H, since the non-Faroudja-based scaler in the 970HD is not quite as good as the 971H's and you do not have to worry about macroblocking issues.

If your display is a 42" (according to Oppo's comparision info), the 970HD's scaling should be visually comparable to the 971's, and you'll also be able to A/B your GWIII's internal scaler with 480i HDMI input.

/steve

Has any one tested de 970HD through 480i HDMI output to infocus SP4805, as it has the Faroudja deinterlacer itself,and it only works if you feed it 480i. How good does it look compared to feed it thro component imput?

I think part of the problem is that when HDMI first came to be it was touted as the fixall to multiple cable setups. One cable does everything...well, we know that's not true, and the fact that consumers might use some method of external audio didn't seem to be given much thought when designing HDMI.
Actually the HDMI "design" did account for this. It is the implementations which took the simplistic approach. The one thing that would have been nice with HDMI is if the design specified more items as mandatory.

5.1 support should have been mandatory
multi-channel PCM should have been mandatory
480i/1080p support should have been mandatory
interop certification should have been mandatory

Do you have any specifics about the bug and about the Mark II version?
No specifics except what we were told by the local authorized dealer. The units are due in July, at least with the 4806 Mark II. Pioneer doesn't seem to have any release mention of this, but why would they try to forestall sales of their existing inventory? It was months ago that the mention of the bugs, so I don't remember the specific instances where they occur, or with what equipment except for the Comcast Motorola DVR.

Have you tried a direct connection to see if those particular DVDs played the surround sound formats?

By the way, I ordered the Oppo over the weekend despite the back order problem, but wanted you all to know that they charged my card already! If you want to wait to order until they verify an inventory of the units, I would recommend that!

I've been going through the same thoughts you have been. After reading as much as I can about both products, including exchanging a couple of emails with Oppo, I've decided to get the 971 as opposed to the 970. I also have a Sony RP-LCD display (50XBR800), and a SA 8300HD STB DVR. For me, I'd rather the capability of using the upconvert option fo the DVD player and seeing for myself if I prefer the upconverting of the display or the DVD player. I don't know which one I'll prefer, but from the testing I've done with my 8300HD and changing the mode from pass through to upconvert, I prefer the upconvert picture done by the 8300 rather than done by the display. Also, as far as SACD and DVD-A is concerned, the 971 does play DVD-A discs, so you're covered there unless you like SACD better. I don't really know the differences between the two formats, though.

Also, Oppo in their email to me said that macroblocking is NOT an issue with LCD displays. I don't have any personal experience with this (i'm sure others will chime in on this if their experience is different), but that's what they told me.

I thought I would share this with you because I bet we are not the only ones struggling with this.

Good luck in your decision!

Thanks for replying! The DVD-A must be a new 971H feature, as it wasn't in the online spec sheet. I'd imagine that this signal can't be passed over either of the digital connections, so I'll have to connect the Oppo to one of the 5.1 inputs on my receiver, resulting in a PCM->Analog->DSD conversion. But it will be fun to try. Maybe a future OPPO model will have ILINK for DSD (hope someone from OPPO is watching this forum) -- then I'll put the 971H or 970HD (whichever I wind up with) in my bedroom as a DIVX/XVID player.

Thanks for mentioning the macroblocking is not an issue for LCD panels. I'll have to search the other forum (mentioned in a previous message) for more details.

I also have the 8300HD and finally settled on "passthrough" mode, where the TV does all the scaling, mostly to avoid the additional conversion to 768p. I didn't see much difference with true HD sources (1080i, as the SA box doesn't have to do any scaling with 720p) but I thought the TV did a better job at scaling the rarely recorded analog signal (rarely recorded because I've got TIVO for that and don't need to tie up space on the 8300HD). But now I'm getting off-topic.

Really looking forward to the OPPO arriving tomorrow...

By the way, I ordered the Oppo over the weekend despite the back order problem, but wanted you all to know that they charged my card already! If you want to wait to order until they verify an inventory of the units, I would recommend that!

It shouldn't be a charge. It is just an authorization (to see if the funds are actually there). No money has been transfered, and no funds are on hold.

MY 970HD came this weekend and just opened itup. However, will not be able to get to it untill later this afternoon. I have my SACD player and DVD player in place so i hopefully, be able to to direct comparison to see whats UP..
db

...No money has been transfered, and no funds are on hold.
Thanks for that! The card company called, and mentioned that as "activity" on the card, so I assumed that it had been charged to the account!

MY 970HD came this weekend and just opened itup. However, will not be able to get to it untill later this afternoon. I have my SACD player and DVD player in place so i hopefully, be able to to direct comparison to see whats UP..
db

I look forward to your review on the audio capabilities of the DV-970HD.

I'm going to be using a Panny AE900 with an 87" wide screen - based on the Oppo recommendations on screen size I should go with the 971H.

I will be likely using it with Denon AVR-3806 or AVR-2807 Receiver.

I'm going to be using a Panny AE900 with an 87" wide screen - based on the Oppo recommendations on screen size I should go with the 971H.

I will be likely using it with Denon AVR-3806 or AVR-2807 Receiver.
I'll be interested in seeing if you have any trouble passing DVD-A and SACD multi-channel over HDMI to the Denon. I have not be successful in getting that to work yet.

Side by side the OPDV971H is much better in terms of motion adaptive de-interlacing, which produces a much more natural (ie. no artificial aliasing) picture. However, this process comes at a cost, as the image is now slightly softer than what you started with.

The DV-970HD produces a much sharper image, but at the expense of high quality de-interlacing. It is not bad, but not great either. If you are planning on playing PAL DVDs as a primary means of viewing films, then you will want to go with the OPDV971H, as the DV-970HD does not support 2:2 Cadence.

Even with all this said, unless you have a television which is larger than 50", the ability to tell the difference between the two is very minor, especially if it is something you havn't been trained (cursed) to see.
I see. Thanks for the response.

As a way of educating me, if you were to feed your display with a 1080i upconverted signal and allow the display to create the native resolution, would the deinterlacing factor come into play? Wouldn't the MediaTek then work well?

970HD, JUST REVIEWED the manual. Linear PCM output-Q?
I will connect- plasma>HDMI
denon 3803>didgital coax
SACD- A cables
however, i can not find in My Denon 3803 manual- what setting it will take :48K-96K-192K
{page 30)
db

I have not yet been able to pass multi-channel SACD over HDMI from the 970 to my Anthem D2.

As a way of educating me, if you were to feed your display with a 1080i upconverted signal and allow the display to create the native resolution, would the deinterlacing factor come into play? Wouldn't the MediaTek then work well?

Upscaling to 1080i requires that the 480i DVD signal be deinterlaced, scaled, then reinterlaced. The scaling process is based on whole video frames, not individual fields.

If your display's native resolution is not 1080i, you shouldn't feed it standard DVDs at that resolution. That's just too many scaling steps, which can only lead to mathematical errors and artifacts.

I've been going through the same thoughts you have been. After reading as much as I can about both products, including exchanging a couple of emails with Oppo, I've decided to get the 971 as opposed to the 970. I also have a Sony RP-LCD display (50XBR800), and a SA 8300HD STB DVR. For me, I'd rather the capability of using the upconvert option fo the DVD player and seeing for myself if I prefer the upconverting of the display or the DVD player.

I must be missing something. Why does the 971 let you have the capability to upconvert in the DVD player and the 970 doesn't?

970HD, JUST REVIEWED the manual. Linear PCM output-Q?
I will connect- plasma>HDMI
denon 3803>didgital coax
SACD- A cables
however, i can not find in My Denon 3803 manual- what setting it will take :48K-96K-192K
{page 30)
db

You can try 192Khz. If you get no audio, drop it to 96K and so forth until you hear audio. You can't hurt the receiver by sending it a signal which is outside of its decoding capabilities.

Upscaling to 1080i requires that the 480i DVD signal be deinterlaced, scaled, then reinterlaced....
That says it all, and educated me! I didn't realize that it would do the cha-cha with so many steps to get to 1080. Certainly not the best route for a 720p or 768p panel!

On the 970, is the red LED near the power button supposed to be on when the unit is powered off? Mine is on when its powered off and the light goes off when I power it on. Kind of backwards if you ask me. Please let me know b/c its sort of bugging me :P

You can try 192Khz. If you get no audio, drop it to 96K and so forth until you hear audio. You can't hurt the receiver by sending it a signal which is outside of its decoding capabilities.

Yes. Also note that the standard spdif allows a maximum of just 48khz. Everything above that is non-standard.

On the 970, is the red LED near the power button supposed to be on when the unit is powered off? Mine is on when its powered off and the light goes off when I power it on. Kind of backwards if you ask me. Please let me know b/c its sort of bugging me :P

Yes, the LED is one when it is Off. This is so you know that the unit is actually receiving power. Many devices these days use a red/blue standby light which turns off when the device is being used (as it is assumed you can tell it is operating).

Wondering if anyone has tried 970 or 971 with Panny 500u (HP PL5000N) as I'm interested in a new DVD player and don't know which way to go. Thanks.

I have not yet been able to pass multi-channel SACD over HDMI from the 970 to my Anthem D2.
Thanks for the input, I'm having no luck with my Denon 3806 either. Do you get 2 ch SACD?

Since this thread is new and very popular, for the near future I'm going to ask everybody to stick to 970HD discussion only. Anything off-topic, or close, will be deleted. Thanks.

larry

Isn't it important to would be purchasers that they understand the differences between the two models? I read so much positive stuff about the 971 I bought one a day before they announced 970. Now I'm wondering if I should have waited for the 970! Do you suggest we start another thread just to discuss the basis diferences between these two Oppo players?! :confused: This seems like the logical thread to me.

redjr...

PooperScooper was mainly talking about the people who ran off on television and receiver tangents which stopped being about the DV-970HD or DVD players in general.

As long as the conversations remain in the realm of the DV-970HD (recommended settings, displays, experience, comparisons, you name it) it is fine. But once you start talking about things (at length) which do not relate to the DV-970HD, you are inviting trouble.

I just have one simple question, would using the 480i HDMI to my VP30 give me a picture improvement over using component output of my RP91?

I just have one simple question, would using the 480i HDMI to my VP30 give me a picture improvement over using component output of my RP91?

What is your display unit?

inomics

Thanks for the input, I'm having no luck with my Denon 3806 either. Do you get 2 ch SACD?Well, since all of my sacd discs are hybrid, I am not really sure, as my D2 status info is advising me that I have L & R stereo.

But, I can report that I have watched Freedomland and Heat at 480i throught the Oppo to my D2 to 50" Sony GWIII and found the PQ extremely satisfying. :D And, remember that I have spent the past few weeks watching HD flicks on my XA-1.

I just have one simple question, would using the 480i HDMI to my VP30 give me a picture improvement over using component output of my RP91?

Similar question to what I was hoping to get a good sense of from this thread.

Is this unit the inexpensive, pure digital transport we all hoped it would be? Do those folks currently using SDI find the 970HD connected to their scaler via 480i HDMI a comparable alternative?

I'd also love to know the impressions of those follks who have A/B'd the 970HD's 480i component and HDMI into a high quality scaler.

Unfortunately my 970HD won't be here for a couple of weeks at the earliest, so I can't see for myself.

/steve

Question: If the native resolution of my display is 480p/1080i, what is the best resolution to upconvert to...720p or 1080i (since, if I'm correct, using 720p will be upconverted by my display to 1080i anyway)?

What is your display unit?

I have an Optoma H79 on a 92" screen.

Last night I watched The Concientious Objector DVD, a documentary shot with Panasonic's VariCam Cinema HD camera. It looked very good on my 42-inch Panny plasma (60 series) via HDMI, and I looked at the different resolution outputs of the Oppo. It became apparent that, compared to the other resolutions, 480i was darker and colors were oversaturated. Has anybody else noticed that?

With my current TV settings I preferred 720p and 1080i. They both looked very detailed and smooth. Shadow detail was particularly good, whereas with 480i shadow detail was crushed. When I tried to adjust 480i for brightness, contrast, and color saturation I was not able to make it look as good as 720p and 1080i.

I will go through the AVIA calibration as soon as I get the chance. With my TV/Oppo combination, it appears that each resolution may require a separate calibration.

Last night I watched The Concientious Objector DVD, a documentary shot with Panasonic's VariCam Cinema HD camera. It looked very good on my 42-inch Panny plasma (60 series) via HDMI, and I looked at the different resolution outputs of the Oppo. It became apparent that, compared to the other resolutions, 480i was darker and colors were oversaturated. Has anybody else noticed that?

With my current TV settings I preferred 720p and 1080i. They both looked very detailed and smooth. Shadow detail was particularly good, whereas with 480i shadow detail was crushed. When I tried to adjust 480i for brightness, contrast, and color saturation I was not able to make it look as good as 720p and 1080i.

I will go through the AVIA calibration as soon as I get the chance. With my TV/Oppo combination, it appears that each resolution may require a separate calibration.
Anytime you switch resolutions you should at least double check calibration. This is especially true when switching back to or from 480i. Different deinterlacer/scaler is being used. Switching between 720p and 1080i probably won't require a check but it can't hurt. What are you using to calibrate?

larry

What are you using to calibrate?

larry

Just a quick question - do you mean software or hardware? I myself use to calibrate as described in the #post7270763.

inomics

PooperScooper was mainly talking about the people who ran off on television and receiver tangents which stopped being about the DV-970HD or DVD players in general.

As long as the conversations remain in the realm of the DV-970HD (recommended settings, displays, experience, comparisons, you name it) it is fine. But once you start talking about things (at length) which do not relate to the DV-970HD, you are inviting trouble.exactamundo :)

larry

Kpeling,
I too, have an H79 which has an adequate scaler but the vp30 would be superior to that. I believe the hdmi 480i to the vp30 and setting the H79 on native to passthrough the vp30 scaling would be the way to go. I am not an authority on this but from what I have learned from the scaling experts on this forum, this would appear to be optimum. I am contemplating a D2 with the oppo 970hd and will hook it up as I mentioned.
DJ

Okay, this may be a dumb question to I apologise in advance. My TV, a Toshiba HX81, does not have HDMI or DVI inputs for a digital connection so only component. My current DVD player is a seven (?) year old Sony S7700. Considering that I can not use the upscaling feature over a digital connection and that I will be limited to 480i or 480P for CSS DVDs would I see much improvement in picture?

I know that there are other benefits such as DIVX support (can it play DIVX HD? over component?) and the high end audio so I think it could still be a good buy, but considering I am still in the analog domain, which would be better, the DV970HD or the DV971H for video?

Thank you.

Okay, this may be a dumb question to I apologise in advance. My TV, a Toshiba HX81, does not have HDMI or DVI inputs for a digital connection so only component. My current DVD player is a seven (?) year old Sony S7700. Considering that I can not use the upscaling feature over a digital connection and that I will be limited to 480i or 480P for CSS DVDs would I see much improvement in picture?

I know that there are other benefits such as DIVX support (can it play DIVX HD? over component?) and the high end audio so I think it could still be a good buy, but considering I am still in the analog domain, which would be better, the DV970HD or the DV971H for video?

Thank you.The 970HD does a decent job with component, better than the 971.

larry

Oppo DVD 970HD
Here my 1st nights impression: My EQ: just so you can measure for your self. Denon 3803- PSB Silveri Stratus –LF, PSB C6i-C, T+A rears (German), SVS 12isd, Plasma NEC 50”XR5. EQ: that may be replaced- Sony CE775 Modified CD player of SACD, Pan RP82 DVD:
My system has been calibrated w/ with AVIA & RS SPL. (It will take a week or so to calibrate the 970{can’t find my SPL L.) Acoustically
“ Challenged living room”. I also want to eliminate Eq from the living room. Review with SACD/CD/VideoCD/ 5 different DVD’s-one or 2 scenes apiece.
1.For CD play it is a good player- unless you really have to have the finest fidelity with a dedicated room and $$$$ CD player. I think this will work.
2.SACD, well if you want this format fidelity and sound stage, it is pretty good. Don’t go to a really high-end system and listen to it and then compare. The high end will sound deeper. The full music impact of my Sony is better. But not day vs. night. Once I calibrate it, I’ll make a better report.
3. DVD: I am replacing a $180 RP82 (6yrs old) waiting for the F^%$ HD war to finish out and see some players to review.. The DVD sound tract was very impressive. Clear- accurate-full, the subwoofer sounded like a sub should. In SWARS Clone wars, when the dart killed the assassin. You could literately hear the dart come over your right shoulder/ side overhead through the air and hit with a solid impact “thud” into the assassin.
4.In the Bar scene w/ the assassin. My previous player was darker with much less detail- now you could really see what the patrons were wearing-nice- and face expressions. Other scenes smother PQ- more accurate color and 3D effect. But I wouldn’t say true Professional high gloss 35 mm. But very good. I demo a PIO 45A ($350) and the PQ w/ the 970 was much better- sound same/ slightly better. {But the CD and SACD was much better than the PIO 45A.
5.Did this player beat the Pan rp82 for DVD PQ yes - but didn’t smother it. Will I keep it yes - will I keep my SACD player- still reviewing.
6.Very easy to set up and run. Very thin.
7.MAJOR warning: The tray: It is VERY thin. And really not agronomical correct, for adding and removing the DVD. Young hands could damage very quickly and drunken hands faster. I have never been proponent to warranties (no real value). But here one might look to see if a warranty will cover the tray with no questions for cause.
Edit: RE: TRAY- Neuromancer- that could be a valid point- I don't know much about trays in other players. It was my 1st impression. I feel a little better that you could see what I was describing and knew enough to relieve my concerns- thankse.

7.MAJOR warning: The tray: It is VERY thin. And really not agronomical correct, for adding and removing the DVD. Young hands could damage very quickly and drunken hands faster. I have never been proponent to warranties (no real value). But here one might look to see if a warranty will cover the tray with no questions for cause.

Here is a little philosophy that can be applied to the tray:

"To bend like the reed in the wind, that is the real strength" Taoist proverb.

The tray is designed to allow for more abuse than standard plastaic trays. It is less likely to crack, break, or otherwise come off of its rails due to its plasticity. Yes, our perceived notion is that thin and flexible = cheap and unreliable, but that is not the case with the OPDV971H/DV-970HD.

Well, since all of my sacd discs are hybrid, I am not really sure, as my D2 status info is advising me that I have L & R stereo.

But, I can report that I have watched Freedomland and Heat at 480i throught the Oppo to my D2 to 50" Sony GWIII and found the PQ extremely satisfying. :D And, remember that I have spent the past few weeks watching HD flicks on my XA-1.
Interesting, hard to imagine both Anthem and Denon, two companies that are normally very detailed about how they implement something, could have something wrong. I'm going to take my Oppo down to Magnolia today and try it with the rest of the Denon HDMI capable lineup plus a few other receivers and see what happens.

Kris Deering has a D2, has he ever reported back here his observations on SACD and DVD-A? I seem to recall something about that earlier in the thread.

Okay, this may be a dumb question to I apologise in advance. My TV, a Toshiba HX81, does not have HDMI or DVI inputs for a digital connection so only component. My current DVD player is a seven (?) year old Sony S7700. Considering that I can not use the upscaling feature over a digital connection and that I will be limited to 480i or 480P for CSS DVDs would I see much improvement in picture?

I know that there are other benefits such as DIVX support (can it play DIVX HD? over component?) and the high end audio so I think it could still be a good buy, but considering I am still in the analog domain, which would be better, the DV970HD or the DV971H for video?

Thank you.

the hx81 toshibas GREATLY benefit from component upconversion due to the crappy internal upconvertion of 480p to 540p. inputing 1080i bypasses is and you'll be amazed at the differences. I have a 50hx81 and have been using upconverters for 3+years. current upconverter is the LG 418 upgraded with the lg 531 firmware. before that I used the zenith 318 and before that I used a sigma 8500 clone.

Best,
jeff

I know that there are other benefits such as DIVX support (can it play DIVX HD? over component?) and the high end audio so I think it could still be a good buy, but considering I am still in the analog domain, which would be better, the DV970HD or the DV971H for video?

If you are using an analog display device, you will not want to go with the OPDV971H, as it is designed for digital displays only. The DV-970HD will be the better player, especially once someone hacks the unit to allow for component based upconversion of all material (not just non-CSS discs).

I have a panasonic 8uk. And a DVDO vp30. My DVD players just dead. Do you guys recommend this dvd player with my system? Should I consider getting blue ray dvd? Any suggestions would be great.

the hx81 toshibas GREATLY benefit from component upconversion due to the crappy internal upconvertion of 480p to 540p. inputing 1080i bypasses is and you'll be amazed at the differences. I have a 50hx81 and have been using upconverters for 3+years. current upconverter is the LG 418 upgraded with the lg 531 firmware. before that I used the zenith 318 and before that I used a sigma 8500 clone.

Best,
jeff

Thank you for your input. I do not want to get off topic for fear of being deleted, but I do not know a better place to ask this so sorry mods.

With you 50hx81 (same as mine) does your LG 418 upgraded with the lg 531 firmware output 1080i for CSS commercial discs or do you rip and deCSS then first?

Back to the DV970HD, I am assuming from the specs, unless I misunderstood, this player will output 1080i with commercial films that have been DeCSSed (spelling?).

Is this right as a lot of my films are that way these days - hey I'm not a criminal...when you habe a rambunctious 3 year old you learn to protect your discs...:)

yes it does play all commercial discs at 1080i via component without deCSS'ing.

jeff

Anytime you switch resolutions you should at least double check calibration. This is especially true when switching back to or from 480i. Different deinterlacer/scaler is being used. Switching between 720p and 1080i probably won't require a check but it can't hurt. What are you using to calibrate?

larry

Thanks for your response. And yes, there is a bigger difference between 480i and the higher resolutions than between 720p and 1080i, where the difference is negligible.

I will be using AVIA to calibrate. I am waiting for my new receiver (Panasonic SA-XR57) to arrive Friday June 9. Its HDMI is supposed to be pass-thru, but I am concerned that if I calibrate without the receiver in the chain the settings might be different.

Thanks for the review DAB. But I do wish there was a 970 review thread! Its becoming too difficult to wade through existing 970 threads to get information from people who now actually own the unit.

Interesting, hard to imagine both Anthem and Denon, two companies that are normally very detailed about how they implement something, could have something wrong. I'm going to take my Oppo down to Magnolia today and try it with the rest of the Denon HDMI capable lineup plus a few other receivers and see what happens.

Kris Deering has a D2, has he ever reported back here his observations on SACD and DVD-A? I seem to recall something about that earlier in the thread.See Kris Deering's response in thread #494. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662580&page=17&pp=30

See Kris Deering's response in thread #494. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662580&page=17&pp=30
Thanks for that link, looks like I'll have to call Denon and see what they say about it.

Hi Guys,

Has anyone seen the DVD Player thread on this forum about the new OPPO DVD player ,which can output 480i via the HDMI outlet so it's in digital ,rather than analog.

I have a mind to order one, but seem to remember reading somewhere that the H79 won't accept 480i via the DVI/HDMI input. Does anyone know for sure?

Please excuse what is probably a stupid question (it's early and my brain isn't 100% yet), but why would anyone want to upconvert a 480p image to 1080i for watching DVDs? I realize there are going to be advantages to both, but with 480p the viewer is getting a progressive image, and better yet, the viewer is likley getting "reverse 2-3 pulldown" so that all frames are constructed properly.

With upconversion to 1080i it seems that all is being done is upconverting the 480i image to 1080i. The simple fact that 1080 is interlaced (except on BD and HDDVD) means that there can be no utlization of "reverse 2-3 pulldown," which means that any and all interlacing artifacts should show up.

Upconverting to 720p is a different story, of couse, as the progressive frame would remain intact.

I ask this also becasue I've always wondered what TV broadcasters do with movies they show at 1080i.

To me, the greatest thing a viewer can ever do for improving movie watching at home is to eliminate interlace artifacts. Upconverting to 1080i just doesn't seem to do that.

I hope this isn't considered too off-topic. I'm interested in the Oppo for connection to my Sony 30XS955 (which displays at either 480p or 1080i). If there are no real advantages to upconversion, then some of the luster of the Oppo is lost (not all of course - there's still the great 480p output).

Thanks.

...Has anyone seen the DVD Player thread on this forum about the new OPPO DVD player....
This is it. You're probably confused by the numbering of the models. The older one is 971 and the new one is 970. And yes, it outputs 480i over the HDMI connection.

See Kris Deering's response in thread #494. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662580&page=17&pp=30

Kris's comment is in reference to 5.1 channel DVDA/SACD not functioning between the 970 and the D2. Sounds like the issue there is with the Anthem if he's waiting for a D2 update to fix the problem, not the 970. Has anyone tried getting 5.1 DVDA/SACD over HDMI (via PCM) from the 970 using another receiver besides a D2 or Denon 3806?

I'm trying to understand if this is a receiver issue or a problem with the 970.

Please excuse what is probably a stupid question (it's early and my brain isn't 100% yet), but why would anyone want to upconvert a 480p image to 1080i for watching DVDs? I realize there are going to be advantages to both, but with 480p the viewer is getting a progressive image, and better yet, the viewer is likley getting "reverse 2-3 pulldown" so that all frames are constructed properly.

With upconversion to 1080i it seems that all is being done is upconverting the 480i image to 1080i.

In order to upconvert to 1080i, the 480i original must be deinterlaced, scaled, and then reinterlaced.

Upconversion has decided benefits if you scale to the native resolution of the display. This has been discussed extensively in the FAQs at the top of this forum.

Kris's comment is in reference to 5.1 channel DVDA/SACD not functioning between the 970 and the D2. Sounds like the issue there is with the Anthem if he's waiting for a D2 update to fix the problem, not the 970. Has anyone tried getting 5.1 DVDA/SACD over HDMI (via PCM) from the 970 using another receiver besides a D2 or Denon 3806?

I'm trying to understand if this is a receiver issue or a problem with the 970.
I'm trying to understand where/what the problem is as well.

Neuromancer confirmed that he was, but I don't recall if he indicated what receiver/pre-pro he was using, and I don't recall if anyone else has confirmed that they have been successful although in many cases, if there isn't a problem many wouldn't post about it.

I'm going to call Denon today but I'm not sure they will be much help as I doubt they have access to the 970 as this point. What confuses me is that it works fine with the Toshiba HD-A1 but doesn't with the 970 so I have to assume that one or the other is not doing something right.

Jim Hef Quote:
Originally Posted by rm48il
...Has anyone seen the DVD Player thread on this forum about the new OPPO DVD player....

This is it. You're probably confused by the numbering of the models. The older one is 971 and the new one is 970. And yes, it outputs 480i over the HDMI connection



Sorry, I'm not making myself clear!

What I'm wondering is whether anyone can confirm that the Optoma H79 Projector DVI input can accept the 4801 that the OPPO 970 can put out on it's HDMI output.

As others have said ,this is close to an SDI output, but I seem to recall someone saying that the H79 won't accept 480i as a digital input

I must be missing something. Why does the 971 let you have the capability to upconvert in the DVD player and the 970 doesn't?

I think he means that the scaler in the 971H is better than the 970HD, so that drove him to the 971. They both upconvert. I received and hooked up the 971H last night, put it into 720p mode via DVI, watched the opening space battle scene of SW Episode 3 (kids' choice) and the PQ was really stunning -- very saturated colors, and no jaggies, breakup, or motion artifcacts that I could spot. I'll have to see if it holds up on real (as opposed to computer-generated) movies. I see what others mean by "the picture is a little soft" but I'll have to see if that's a problem. The "film-like look" definitely complemented what I've seen so far.

I tried 480p (scaled to 768p by my Sony 70XBR950 and didn't like that as much. I was also disappointed that 480i over DVI wasn't one of the options. I don't know for a fact that the Sony TV would even accept that over DVI but I wanted to try a digital connection with the TV doing most of the grunt work.

The UI of the player is also pretty good. The only improvements I could suggest is putting up a message saying some changes can't be made while in PLAY mode (you just get an X in the corner -- took me a couple of minutes to remember that you have to push stop before changing DVI resolutions, although if I'd cracked the manual, it might have pointed that out), and the very nice remote looks like it should be back-lit but isn't (as far as I could tell, anyway).

Anyway, so far so good. Oppo really does have winning products.

Great, but you're in the 970 thread...there is a 971 thread for this!

As others have said ,this is close to an SDI output, but I seem to recall someone saying that the H79 won't accept 480i as a digital input Did you ask in the PJ forum? If not, why not?? :)

larry

Have you used the iScan HD+ with this? I can't really justify the cost of a VP30 but could probably swing an HD or HD+ and was wondering if it would be worth it or if I should just save up for a VP30 at some point. I'm using the 970 right now straight to my Z4 onto a 92" screen and while it's not breathtaking it's not nearly as bad as people made me think it would be on a big screen. The biggest problem seems to be with diag lines which would make sense since it doesn't have the DCDi

Kpeling,
I too, have an H79 which has an adequate scaler but the vp30 would be superior to that. I believe the hdmi 480i to the vp30 and setting the H79 on native to passthrough the vp30 scaling would be the way to go. I am not an authority on this but from what I have learned from the scaling experts on this forum, this would appear to be optimum. I am contemplating a D2 with the oppo 970hd and will hook it up as I mentioned.
DJ

I have a VP30 and H79 and just ordered a DV-970HD! Should be a great combo.

Have you used the iScan HD+ with this? I can't really justify the cost of a VP30 but could probably swing an HD or HD+ and was wondering if it would be worth it or if I should just save up for a VP30 at some point. I'm using the 970 right now straight to my Z4 onto a 92" screen and while it's not breathtaking it's not nearly as bad as people made me think it would be on a big screen. The biggest problem seems to be with diag lines which would make sense since it doesn't have the DCDi
What resolutions have you tried?

larry

I'm trying to understand where/what the problem is as well.

Neuromancer confirmed that he was, but I don't recall if he indicated what receiver/pre-pro he was using, and I don't recall if anyone else has confirmed that they have been successful although in many cases, if there isn't a problem many wouldn't post about it.

I'm going to call Denon today but I'm not sure they will be much help as I doubt they have access to the 970 as this point. What confuses me is that it works fine with the Toshiba HD-A1 but doesn't with the 970 so I have to assume that one or the other is not doing something right.

I can confirm that all HDMI audio, when set to Multi-channel (regardless of the unit being set to RAW) is only being recognized as 2.0 Stereo PCM on the Denon 3806. If you use SPDIF, mutli-channel audio (DD/DTS) will be read and decoded properly.

OPPO just recently bought a Denon 3806 and has confirmed the same problem. They are looking into the issue.

I'm bummed. :( I waited all day for the Fedex truck to receive my Oppo 970. I open the box and it is the 971! I was one of the first people to order and the ship form says 970 but the bums in the shipping department sent the wrong one.

I called Oppo, of course, and they were very nice and apologetic but now I have to wait another two weeks or so for the next shipment.

Very disappointed.

-CB

$150 for a 971 is a steal! :)

I called Oppo, of course, and they were very nice and apologetic but now I have to wait another two weeks or so for the next shipment.
Two weeks?
Their error. They should expedite.

shane

Two weeks?
Their error. They should expedite.

shane

You can't expedite if you have no stock...

I have a tech Q?. My NEC xr5 Plasma supports 1080i > my Oppo 970HD supports 1080i.
I have connected the DVD player with both HDMI and component. { also to see if i can see a difference in PQ.
When i click the HDMI buttom it displays 720P(64hz). How do i get 1080i??
{i am posting this in the NEC thread as well}

Hi everyone. Noob here. I've read alot on the avs forums for what i want to get when i Move. I'm getting the Vizio 50" PDP that's at costco and i know it has the Faroudjas chipset in it if i recall correctly and from what i read in the Vizio post. I've also read on here that you do not want a Faroudjas dvd going to a tv that has Faroudjas on it. So if i have the 970HD going to the VIZIO it should look pretty good with no problems?

You can't expedite if you have no stock...
'nuff said.

I've also read on here that you do not want a Faroudjas dvd going to a tv that has Faroudjas on it. This is nonsense. Someone made a sad mistake if they said this. Its just that you do not need to buy a Faroudja player if your display already has one.

If your Visio accepts 480i HDMI, the 970HD could be a perfect match for it. Unfortunately, many displays (with or without Faroudja) cannot accept 480i HDMI.

By the way, its Faroudja, not Faroudjas.

Gary

I have a tech Q?. My NEC xr5 Plasma supports 1080i > my Oppo 970HD supports 1080i.
I have connected the DVD player with both HDMI and component. { also to see if i can see a difference in PQ.
When i click the HDMI buttom it displays 720P(64hz). How do i get 1080i??
{i am posting this in the NEC thread as well}

You need to cycle through the HDMI modes. Press the HDMI button two more times to switch to 1080i.

Ideally you will not want to do 1080i, as you will be inviting de-interlacing and scaling errors, as the DVD player and the television will both be doing one de-interlacing and scaling process.

When i click the HDMI buttom it displays 720P(64hz). How do i get 1080i?? Don't forget that you have to press stop twice (or eject the disk) to change the resolution with the HDMI button.

Gary

Neuromancer, thanks, i was hitting the HDMI key incorrectly. I just place IROBOT into the 970.
to view the 720p and 1080i- they both look about the same. I will have to wait untill it is darker to view the PQ better. The NEc is has a very good scaler, so i'll let the nec do the scaling.
One more item: setting the palsama to 16:9, all my current dvd's (6). when i play them they come up in the letterbox format. when i use the plasma remote to streach to anamorphic- i cut out some of the sides. however,(p27) in the manual, it doesn't appear to cut off any of the picture. Is this the way it is? or do i have a wrong setting?

I can confirm that all HDMI audio, when set to Multi-channel (regardless of the unit being set to RAW) is only being recognized as 2.0 Stereo PCM on the Denon 3806. If you use SPDIF, mutli-channel audio (DD/DTS) will be read and decoded properly.

OPPO just recently bought a Denon 3806 and has confirmed the same problem. They are looking into the issue.
Excellent, thanks for the update. :)

The Oppo's HDCD encoding is bypassed if you use SPDIF, right?

I don't want it to contend with the HDCD decoder in my AVR635.

It should be bypassed when sent over S/PDIF.

I also have AVR 635.... I'm trying to buy a HD-TV now. I think I should find one with hdmi to use 970? Originally I'm trying to buy a Syntax or Niko 32" LCD...However they all just have DVI....Anyone can recomand some buget 32" LCD TV?



The Oppo's HDCD encoding is bypassed if you use SPDIF, right?

I don't want it to contend with the HDCD decoder in my AVR635.

I can confirm that all HDMI audio, when set to Multi-channel (regardless of the unit being set to RAW) is only being recognized as 2.0 Stereo PCM on the Denon 3806. If you use SPDIF, mutli-channel audio (DD/DTS) will be read and decoded properly.

OPPO just recently bought a Denon 3806 and has confirmed the same problem. They are looking into the issue.

Excellent, thanks for the update.

I just received my 970HD today and can tell you that it exhibits the same problem with the Denon AVR 4806. I had to add a toslink cable and set HDMI to SPDIF to achieve 7.1 sound. I only get 2 channel (Front L/R) via HDMI only into the AVR 4806. My Pioneer Elite 79 doesn't have this issue. Tomorrow I want to do a quick compare of how each upconverts from 480i, while I await the return of my VP30 from the shop. I'm hoping to use the 970HD as a transport for the HT with Sim2 C3X and move the Elite 79 upstairs to an RPTV and let it upconvert on its own.

I am thinking the way the audio is being transported to the receiver is not properly recognized. As you said, the Pioneer Elite 79AVI does not have this problem (I personally tried the Panasonic S77 as that was what was originally connected to the Denon 3806).

However, I have also run it through the JVC RXD402B, and I had no problem with the audio when using the HDMI Multi-Channel option for all content.

What I am thinking is that the DV-970HD is sending a 6-channel signal, but is not defining the channels (ie. 1 = center; 2 = front left; etc) like the other DVD players are. This is why on one setup I am getting full audio support, and on another I am only getting Stereo. If this is the case, then it should be a simple firmware fix.