That's true - I would say that most of not all of the basic hardware components in the Oppo are pretty readily available (Mediatek and Faroudja chips, drive, etc), even if it isn't all assembled in exactly the same way. There's a huge amount of software tied up in making a DVD player work, however, and that's where much of the development cost for an individual player is going to end up being tied up. Oppo seems to be combining well-chosen off-the-shelf parts with some really aggressive programming efforts. :)

So could one deduce from this that others like sony and pioneer etc... Deliberatley make their entry model players with crap performance while oppo sharing same chip sets can acheive greater results. Sony etc..... would have greater reasources and knowlege to acheive similar if not better results inthe same price point, but choose not too. Welcome to the world of marketing??

Ben

So could one deduce from this that others like sony and pioneer etc... Deliberatley make their entry model players with crap performance while oppo sharing same chip sets can acheive greater results. Sony etc..... would have greater reasources and knowlege to acheive similar if not better results inthe same price point, but choose not too. Welcome to the world of marketing??

Ben

Unfortunately, it's probably not deliberate. Just a matter of competence.

Unfortunately, it's probably not deliberate. Just a matter of competence.
Moreover, much of the consumer hardware design (and construction/manufacture) is actually being outsourced by many big name companies these days. Witness for example the Toshiba Terrestial HD PVR which was released here in Australia last year - a very poorly designed piece of gear with many many teething problems. The Sony HD PVR didn't fare much better. When you come to Sony's professional gear, that's entirely another matter. Sony relies on its name to convince buyers that ALL its gear is great - Oppo on the other hand have yet to build up a name and are trying very hard to do just that - and so far with great success I'd say.

Anyway to turn off HDCP on HDMI/DVI for OPPO DVD players?

Thanks,
Chris

Anyway to turn off HDCP on HDMI/DVI for OPPO DVD players?

Thanks,
ChrisThe 971H doesn't have HDCP and up-scales through its DVI port. The 970H needs the "doctored" firmware to remove HDCP over its HDMI output and allow up-scaling over its Component output. It's all been discussed at length in this thread, so take some time and have a thorough read through at least the last 10 pages or so.

My 970HD arrived yesterday while I was at work. My wife called me to inform me that the UPS guy not only recognized my name on the box, but joked to her that ours was one of two houses on his route where the guy was the one who did most of the on-line shopping. :)

The unboxing experience was impressive for a $150 DVD player. The fibercloth sleeve protecting the player (with imprinted Oppo logo) was a particularly nice touch. The cables (including the 'bonus' cables from HDTVSupply) were generally of good quality, excepting the throwaway analog-path cables that I wouldn't use anyway.

I was able to do a rapid swap-in for my ancient and failing DV-414 thanks to the inclusion of both coax and optical S/PDIF outputs. It was also nice that Oppo uses the standard Panasonic-type 2-conductor power connector, as I was able to pull the power cable from my DV-414 and plug it into the 970HD without pulling my Salamander cabinet out of the media niche just to rewire the power cord.

I'm feeding my iScan HD (not HD+) 480i output using high-grade component-video cabling for now. I'll be switching to 480p HDMI->DVI to the iScan HD (non-HDCP using the 'alternate' firmware) once my Westy 47-inch panel comes in. For now, though, the DVD player and my iScan HD are clearly capable of driving my current Toshiba RPTV display to the limits of its resolution.

Little stuff I quite liked:

* Well-written and subtly humorous documentation
* Out-of-box experience (as mentioned)
* Info screen during DVD play with PiP display of program
* TiVo-like FF/RW function (increasing in speed with each keypress, 2x/4x/8x/16x/32x)

What I didn't like:

* Slightly non-intuitive and non-reversible UI in Setup screens. If I hit accidentally left or right on the nav-pad while halfway down a column of items, then immediately go back in the opposite direction, I should be at the same position in the list. I got aggravated with this a couple of times.

* Attempting to resolution-switch during DVD play was prevented with an on-screen circle-slash error icon, but no useful text displayed (e.g. "Please stop DVD playback to switch output resolution"). Does it really cost that much to include an intelligible on-screen error message?

* No Setup menu item to explicitly choose output resolution. If you're doing initial setup via, say, S-video, wouldn't it be nice to be able to set the HDMI/component output res to something that your monitor can handle?

* Corollary to above: no means for disabling resolutions that you don't want. For example, neither my scaler nor my (current) display accept 720p, so I want to be able to disable 720p output. Can't do that on the 970HD, unlike on my HDTiVo.

* USB 1.1 port is lame in a world of USB 2.0 devices.

* Downsampling all images from USB drives and memory cards to 480p before re-upscaling them for output is seriously fscking lame. Seriously, this makes this function nearly useless. Good thing it was 'free' when you consider the value of the player's other features.

Overall, the 970HD is a staggering value for a $150 DVD player. I would gladly have paid US$175-$200 for a 970HD+ which had USB 2.0 and non-downrezzed display of pictures from USB/card, but as it stands I'm very, very happy with my purchase.

Cycling through the modes will not enforce the downsampling of the resolution. But once you put in a CSS-Encrypted disc, your resolution will be forced to 480p only.

And you can find the hack for the removal of CSS compliance here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mt13x9_files/files/) and alternatively here (http://rapidshare.de/files/29049631/613AMOD.iso.html).

FYI, the Yahoo! one says you are not a member.....of course I am on a proxy at work so the rapidshare isnt working either.

Finally I got the hdmi-dvi to connect the oppo 970hd to an iscan hd+. The match is perfect :-) I even got a scare, as iscan output was clear image for about 3 seconds, then it turned to rain-like output. Switching the HDCP mode on to off and backwards cleared the image again for 3 seconds and then rain again. After turning off and on the iscan everything went fine (with hdcp on). I should know better :rolleyes:

Now, there's a quirk on OPPO setup, don't know if happened with someone else. When I change colorspace to a given value, let's say ycbcr 4:4:4, when the oppo is powered next time it will reset it to auto again. hmm

My settings are:
oppo => 576i, PAL, colorspace=ycbcr 4:4:4
iscan => dvi input, hdcp mode=on, dvi mode=auto, dvi colorspace= ycbcr 4:4:4

FYI, the Yahoo! one says you are not a member.....of course I am on a proxy at work so the rapidshare isnt working either.

The Yahoo one requires registration with that group. If you have a yahoo acount, then you can sign up for the group and download the file directly.

Finally I got the hdmi-dvi to connect the oppo 970hd to an iscan hd+. The match is perfect :-) I even got a scare, as iscan output was clear image for about 3 seconds, then it turned to rain-like output. Switching the HDCP mode on to off and backwards cleared the image again for 3 seconds and then rain again. After turning off and on the iscan everything went fine (with hdcp on). I should know better :rolleyes:

Now, there's a quirk on OPPO setup, don't know if happened with someone else. When I change colorspace to a given value, let's say ycbcr 4:4:4, when the oppo is powered next time it will reset it to auto again. hmm

My settings are:
oppo => 576i, PAL, colorspace=ycbcr 4:4:4
iscan => dvi input, hdcp mode=on, dvi mode=auto, dvi colorspace= ycbcr 4:4:4

Hi, I'm also using the 970 into an Iscan HD+. I'll try changing the color space on mine to Ycbcr 4:4:4 and see if the oppo reverts back. Any particular reason your using that rather than RGB?

Greg

Hi, I'm also using the 970 into an Iscan HD+. I'll try changing the color space on mine to Ycbcr 4:4:4 and see if the oppo reverts back. Any particular reason your using that rather than RGB?

Greg
Hi! My rationale was: the mpeg2 streams on DVD discs are recorded in component colorspace. So if the iscan could process the signal in that colorspace, a few conversions would be saved on the OPPO, thus having an even "cleaner" signal delivered. But to be honest, I'm not sure about this. Also, I haven't detected any difference between RGB and Ycrcb colorspace.

Now, there's a quirk on OPPO setup, don't know if happened with someone else. When I change colorspace to a given value, let's say ycbcr 4:4:4, when the oppo is powered next time it will reset it to auto again.
Stays fixed at 4:4:4 for me, HDMI to a Crystalio II.

Just an FYI....I spoke to Oppo today and they plan on releasing a firmware fix within the next couple of months to correct the upscaling vertical compression issue. They feel quite confident they have found a good solution, but it needs more testing. So, hang in there if it's currently an issue to you.

With the new firmware allowing 192kHz sample rate over HDMI, could DSD not be converted to that sample rate?

It would be a pointless waste of processing power almost certainly yielding no audible benefit. As for hearing DSD vs 88.2khz vs. 192khz...such powers of audition have *never* been conclusively documented, certainly not in a home listening environment, where the 'lowly' dithered 16 bits are entirely adequate to cover the available dynamic range, and 44.1 khz, (oversampled to a fare-thee-well in most modern players to render downstream filtering operations artifact free) yields a robust 20 kHz frequency response, which surpasses the range of hearing found in most people past the age of childhood. Higher values (e.g. 24 bit especially ) have a valid place in the recording and mastering studio, but obsession on them for *home delivery audio media* is a 'market' created by the companies, not driven by solid science.


What about DVD-A? I don't know the native sample rate of DVD-A, so I don't know if that is possible. As I understand it, HDMI 1.1 will allow multichannel PCM at that rate. With the DSD, it still would lose some quality, but should sound much better than simply double the sample rate of CDs.

DVD-A supports up to 192kHz at 24 bits; I believe only a few stereo DVD-A tracks have ever used it though.

These 'quality' losses, at least in terms of audibility, are entirely theoretical until proven otherwise. There is no documented reason why DSD 'should' sound better than 88.2 kHz.

Now as to the Oppo: I got one last weekend, gave it latest firmware, hooked it up to my Pioneer 74tXVI AVR by HDMI, and made sure to set all the Oppo DSP about as 'neutral' as I could (no channel level boost or trim, all speakers to Large, all delays at 0 ft). I adjusted other setttings as per the 'Advanced User Guide' written by Audioholics, kindly included with the player. Played a two-channel SACD track (from Santana's 'Caravanserai'). My AVR said it was receiving 88.2 kHz PCM, and it applied all its own BM, levels, time alignment, and room correction (as well as DPL II, if I wanted it) without any problems I could hear. For a mutichannel SACD (e.g., Elton John 'Yellow Brick Road) I had to raise the HDMI resolution fromt eh default 480p to 720p, to accomodate the bigger data load. It too sounded great, as did DVD-A and Dualdiscs. I've yet to run the Oppo head-to-head in an A/B with my Yamaha S2500 (which uses ilink to output hi-rez digitally to the AVR), but I will be surprised if there is a substantial difference in the audio performance. I also want to experiment with the subwoofer output, whihc is currenly 'On'. What happens to LFE information if it's turned off? Is it rerouted to the main channels (where my AVR would then re-extract it to the subwoofer)? Or does it simply disappear, as with too many players with bad bass management?

Bottom line, as an audio transport I think this is a very nice addition to the 'uniplayer' roster, well-nigh unbeatable at its price due to its ability to pass all formats in the digital domain. My Yamaha S2500, which can do the same, cost four times as much and as far as I know is the next-cheapest uniplayer with hi-rez digital output.

(And if the Oppo really does decode HDCD, which I read way back in this thread, that will give it a one-up over the Yammy)

Hi! My rationale was: the mpeg2 streams on DVD discs are recorded in component colorspace. So if the iscan could process the signal in that colorspace, a few conversions would be saved on the OPPO, thus having an even "cleaner" signal delivered. But to be honest, I'm not sure about this. Also, I haven't detected any difference between RGB and Ycrcb colorspace.


I use the following:

Oppo 970@480i hdmi/dvdo vp30/ samsung 720p dlp

I have noticed a difference between the 2 colorspace settings.
RGB ends up 2nd best IMO.

I haven't decided if the VP30 HDMI colorspace out setting is best at 4:4:4 or 4:2:2.
Both look great.
RGB into my Sammy isn't the 1st choice it seems...

If I mention something already stated in this thread, please excuse me, because this thing has a life of it's own.

On the audio side, everyone knows about the SACD bug which adds a two to three second pause between tracks on a disc, even though there does not supposed to be one (Dark Side of the Moon, etc.). There is also a similar, although not as pronounced flaw when playing DVD-Audio discs. I have a copy of Beethoven's 5th and 6th Symphonies by Claudio Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic. In the 5th Symphony, between the third and fourth movements, the Oppo hiccups slightly between the tracks. Anyone familiar with the 5th knows that the third and fourth movements run right into each other, with no break. I hope this minor flaw is also on Oppo's plate, as both the SACD and DVD-Audio situation really needs to be fixed.

The Yahoo one requires registration with that group. If you have a yahoo acount, then you can sign up for the group and download the file directly.

Just saw that. The first time I login, it doesnt prompt me to join. The second time I login, it lets me join but stops at the yahoo toolbar install (even though I unchecked the box). The THIRD time I login I am able to browse to the files.

A question for Oppo 970HD owners...

How is the SACD/DVDA playback? Does a hybrid CD/SACD disk sound better in SACD that its CD layer? Or can you barely tell the difference? Is the SACD layer played better than playing the Redbook CD layer on an a standalone mid-hi CD player (the NADs and Rotels of this world)?

Thanks!

Since the Oppo converts the DSD signal to PCM before analog conversion, I suspect you will have the same response that Pioneer 588 customers had: barely any difference between CD and SACD.

(Of course, any SACD master derived from a PCM master source - as opposed to analog tape or pure DSD - will also sound about the same as a CD. The old "can't polish a turd" thing.)

If you're used to CD playback from NADs and Rotels, you likely will be underwhelmed by the CD playback of the Oppo. For one, it's a "universal player", and is optimized for DVD playback. I don't believe it even has a separate laser to read CDs at the appropriate frequency. Since CDs are read at a lower frequency that DVD, they can still be played back on DVD players without a dedicated CD pickup. But CDs won't sound as good on the Oppo as they do on certain models that have two lasers or "twin optics" to change the frequency of the laser to match the media.

In short, the Oppo is a great, budget-priced DVD player, easily the best in its class. It is not a serious audio player for either CD or SACD. It's probably good enough for many posting here, but it sounds to me like you may require a bit more CD/SACD performance than it can deliver.

This of course assumes that a PCM source is 'a turd' compared to a DSD source....which is exactly what has never been demonstrated. This is sheer audiophile mythology.
All of your claims that something 'won't sound as good' are based on dubious assumptions and methods of evaluation. The business about lasers is silly.

In short it would be surprising if CDs played on the Oppo sounded any different from another competently made CD/DVD player (serious or not), in a blind. levelmatched comparison. If it did there would certainly be obvious differences in measured performance as well, and they would likely be related to the analog stages subsequent to DA conversion. Given CD/DVD players robust error correction, it is *extremely* unlikely that
laser topology will make a difference in reading the 0's and 1's accurately on a decently clean disc.

This is not to say that manufacturer's don't ever release products that may perform worse on CDs than SACD's....maybe even *on purpose*. Stereophile reviewed a $11,000 Linn uni-player that actually introduced low-level (but audible in close listening) ticks into CD playback, but not SACD and DVD-A playback; its *measured* CD performance was also below what could be achieved in other CD players.

I know there was some discussion of this somewhere back in the thread, but apparently my text to speech and the search in thread function are not compatible.

How well does the auto aspect function work on the 970? How well does it detect the format of a given DVD and how does it handle 4:3 and non-anamorphic widescreen material? I am hoping for a player that can detect the proper format and pillarbox a 4:3 tv show and then zoom a non-anamorphic movie while still handling anamorphic titles correctly. Of course, I realize that all of this is dependent on material being flagged properly.

Thanks,

Chris

How well does the auto aspect function work on the 970? GREAT. This is one of the reasons I switched to this player - it auto switches to pillarbox nicely on 4:3 material keeping everything in the correct aspect. Especially handy when watching the special features on DVDs, since most of them are not anamorphic.

The 970's ability to correctly display non-anamorphic widescreen material is excellent.

Thanks for the quick replies on the 4:3/non-anamorphic question. Since a fix for the image squeeze problem is coming, I am probably going to pick one of these up soon. It is just too good of a deal, and they have really just barely begun improving it through firmware, so I expect it to get even better as time passes.

I recall reading a while back that there are some compatibility issues with some recordable media. Is this a confirmed general issue? If so, what media works and what doesn't?

Thanks,

Chris

What if I D/L some of this 720p and 1080i stuff/clips off the net and burn them onto a DVD. Will this player play that stuff at 720p or 1080i as it was originally filmed/made??? or will it "Downconvert" it to 480i and then "Upconvert" output to what I set the output at???

What if I D/L some of this 720p and 1080i stuff/clips off the net and burn them onto a DVD. Will this player play that stuff at 720p or 1080i as it was originally filmed/made??? or will it "Downconvert" it to 480i and then "Upconvert" output to what I set the output at???

It won't play them at all. This is an SD upscaling player, not an HD player.

blindcat7,

DVD-R is not well supported, though DVD+R/RW/DL media is highly compatible.

blindcat7,

DVD-R is not well supported, though DVD+R/RW/DL media is highly compatible.

Can I assume it handles Taiyo Yuden DVD-R media?

Thanks Neuromancer,

That is exactly what I was hoping. DVD+R single and dual layer is what I usually keep around.

Thanks,

Chris

blindcat7,

DVD-R is not well supported, though DVD+R/RW/DL media is highly compatible.

I never had a problem with DVD-R, even crappy brands. As long as it burns OK on my computer, the oppo plays it fine.

I never had a problem with DVD-R, even crappy brands. As long as it burns OK on my computer, the oppo plays it fine.

I agree .... all my old computer burned DVD-R discs play just fine .... over 100 going back several years. This is a nice unit.

BTW, is the auto-aspect function "on" by default or do I need to enable it? ... I know, I know I should probably read the owner's manual, but I'm out of town for a few weeks right now.

It is not on by default. Default is Wide. You want Wide/SQZ.

It is not on by default. Default is Wide. You want Wide/SQZ.

Thanks for the help!

Hi,
I just bought an OPPO DV-970HD last week and am thrilled with the video quality
But I am having some trouble with the audio.

Firmware:
mver: 05.00.01.07
batch 1A - 0526

system

Piano HE-3200 Dlp Front projector
Denon avr-1800 dd/dts av receiver
OPPO DV-970HD replacing Toshiba sd-1200
Energy Take 5 - 5.1 speakers

video connected over component out
digital audio connected with coax (dvd player direct to receiver)

Problem:
The audio didn't sound right so I put on Indiana Jones Temple of Doom THX audio optomizer.
I didn't do any "optomizing" I just ran the sound/speaker positiong test (the first one)
The sound positioning did not match the speakers on the test.
Center sound came out the left speaker, right sound came out of the center speaker, surround right came out of the right speaker.etc
So basically it sounded shifted by one speaker in the test.

I ran a tone test on the receiver and confirmed that the reciever was outputting the sound to the correct speaker.
So I hooked up my old dvd player (Toshiba sd-1200) and re ran the test. The sounds came out of the correct speakers. No problem.

I re hooked up the OPPO DV-970HD and the problem returned on the thx test.
I changed dvds and tried the same series of tests with the thx optimzer on Toy Story 2.
Same problem - so I hope I have already ruled out some variables for you.

OPPO DV-970HD set up menu

Audio Set up
eq type - none
sound field - off
spdif - raw
lpcm rate - 48k
audio tone - 00
prologic 2 - not supported by receiver (greyed out)
Dolby Digital Setup
Dual mode - stereo
Dynamic - off

Speaker Set Up
downmix - stereo
front speaker - small
center speaker - greyed out (this surprised me)
rear speaker - greyed out (this surprised me)
subwoofer - on
channel delay - default
channel trim - default

I hope I have provided enough information...if you need anything else let me know.
I hope we can resolve this because I couldn't bear to go back to my old dvd player now that I have seen what the oppo can do visually.

Since the Oppo converts the DSD signal to PCM before analog conversion

If you're used to CD playback from NADs and Rotels, you likely will be underwhelmed by the CD playback of the Oppo. For one, it's a "universal player", and is optimized for DVD playback. I don't believe it even has a separate laser to read CDs at the appropriate frequency.

In short, the Oppo is a great, budget-priced DVD player, easily the best in its class. It is not a serious audio player for either CD or SACD. It's probably good enough for many posting here, but it sounds to me like you may require a bit more CD/SACD performance than it can deliver.

Not to be confrontational but I just don't buy into these too often parroted lines about supposed audio deficiencies of the Oppo 970. I see the same comments oft repeated about DSD to PCM being inferior and how the universal player with only one laser cannot possibly compete audibly with a two laser model.

Just to establish my cred, I am a life long audiophile of mid fortyish age. I have dabbled with building Hafler and PS Audio kits in the day and have spent a lot of time pursuing better sound. I even studied audio recording in college and still do amateur recordings with my computer. My current audio rig contains Martin Logan speakers, PS Audio Amp, McCormack Preamp, Benchmark DAC-1, Oppo 970.

Specific points that keep coming up that bug me are this DSD to PCM conversion is automatically inferior. As we should know this conversion all occurs in the digital domain and if properly engineered should be essentially inaudible. In this case the motto, bits are bits truly is relevant. Rich, could you very specifically give me actual SACD titles and index point where the DSD to PCM conversion has produced audible anomalies. For instance you could say that on track 3 of SACD such and such at index point 3:05 the ride cymbal detail is smeared when run through the Oppo PCM conversion versus the direct DSD of say a Marantz 2640 etc. Unless you are an Ed Meitner or John Atkinson, I just can't accept these blanket statements that DSD to PCM conversion is automatically a bad thing.

The same thing goes for this multi laser thing. Firstly, my understanding is the pits on DVD are substantially smaller than CD pits. The accuracy of the DVD laser is greater than a CD. To claim that a laser with greater focusing power cannot handle a larger pit size like a CD seems like pure sophistry to me. Again, if someone can point to specific CDs etc. where the Oppo mistracked or corrupted the sound I would love to hear them. I have a couple thousand CDs and SACDs and I'm sure I have something you've listened to.

I apologize for being confrontational but I get weary hearing the same parroted lines that probably originated with some company's marketing lit and have little grounding in reality.

-CB

The audio didn't sound right

How did it not sound right?

so I put on Indiana Jones Temple of Doom THX audio optomizer.
I didn't do any "optomizing" I just ran the sound/speaker positiong test (the first one)
The sound positioning did not match the speakers on the test.
Center sound came out the left speaker, right sound came out of the center speaker, surround right came out of the right speaker.etc
So basically it sounded shifted by one speaker in the test.

This is due to a buffering problem with the MTK decoder chipset used in both the OPDV971H and the DV-970HD. Your channels will be visually off by one speaker to the right, though the audio will be sent to the proper channels.

Any grayed out items are grayed out either because you need to press Eject then Setup, or a master setting has not been selected (ex. To change your Speaker sizes for Center channel, 5.1 needs to be selected as your DownMix).

How did it not sound right?

This is due to a buffering problem with the MTK decoder chipset used in both the OPDV971H and the DV-970HD. Your channels will be visually off by one speaker to the right, though the audio will be sent to the proper channels.

Any grayed out items are grayed out either because you need to press Eject then Setup, or a master setting has not been selected (ex. To change your Speaker sizes for Center channel, 5.1 needs to be selected as your DownMix).

Its all set up properly now - thanks.

I read all of the thread - didn't see the "visually off to one speaker to the right" warning.


Finally, I'm running it through component with the original unhacked firmware and it lets me scroll through the resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) and I swear I see a difference with css protected store bought disks. I thought with component you were stuck at 480 p or i. unless you used the hack. Am I seeing things?
thx

ok I was watching a "Widescreen" version of a moive and I have a 16:9 screen (scepter naga 42) the oppo was set at wide normal and also wide/sqz (aka auto). and I still get these bars on top and bottom of the screen??? when I play a "Widescreen" DVD... If I play a 4:3 dvd I get full screen with no bars with wide normal and black bars left and right with wide/auto.... So what am I doing wrong???

You're doing nothing wrong. Apparently, the movie's aspect ratio is greater than 16:9

Not to be confrontational but I just don't buy into these too often parroted lines about supposed audio deficiencies of the Oppo 970.

I'd love to hear your opinion on the SACD playback of the Oppo. Some say that these inexpensive SACD players sound no better playing SACDs than they do playing CDs. So much so that I just promised a seller to buy his Philips 963 SA player (DVD/SACD). So while it may be too late for me, perhaps your comments will sway someone else (might still sway me since I haven't mailed my cheque yet!).

Thanks!

This is due to a buffering problem with the MTK decoder chipset used in both the OPDV971H and the DV-970HD. Your channels will be visually off by one speaker to the right, though the audio will be sent to the proper channels.


I always wondered about that. Mine does that as well and it was apparent it was off by one speaker as it rotated clockwise.

Hello Guys

After having a few emails with oppo re: dvd and pj interaction and hdmi. I am confused now. If a pj in its specs states it supports or displayer 480i/576i and dvd player outputs the same. Then what is there to make of this.

Could someone explain what is going on here. :confused:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: oppo dvd palyer and pal issues???


Are you saying that digital interface (hdmi) does not always support some
specific resolutions?

Ben

The HDMI specifications are lenient in what needs to be supported. The
content manufacturer may be using timings which are not the same timing
as the display manufacturer, even though both are working within the
same HDMI specifications.

480i/576i through HDMI is not a give with the technology. It is up to
the content device to support this resolution, and the processing
device to support this resolution. Many displays do not support 480i
simply because it is not a common digital signal.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.



Ben,

There is no firmware fix as there has been no verification of the 480i
problems. On the test displays we have in our offices (where we
develope the firmware), when 480i does not resolve a picture, 480i is
not supported universally through the digital interface.

However, it is something I can tell the engineers to look into more
thoroughly.
Best Regards,

Customer Service

If a pj in its specs states it supports or displayer 480i/576i and dvd player outputs the same. Then what is there to make of this.

This depends on the 480i/576i input being an acceptable format through the digital interface. Many displays which support 480i/576i only support it through the analog inputs, but not through the digital inputs (my Panasonic TH-42PX50U and my friends Sharp Aquos 5U are two examples).

Now, if the projector will accept a 480i/576i image natively, what becomes an issue is how they designed the input. If the timings for the pixel clocking and rate are different from what the DVD player is desinged for, then you will not resolve a picture through the digital input. The HDMI specifications are rather broad, so there could be an incompatibility due to the design of the content device, or the design of the display device.

PS: I would remove most of the e-mail correspondence, since it has been severly truncated and is hard to follow. Either summorize the points, or pull individual quotes.

Thanks for that.

So I need to be specific about what resolutions hdmi can support when purchasing ???? I have been told I ask too many questions in stores :mad:

Now with even more good reason. :p

Thanks
Ben

ok I was watching a "Widescreen" version of a moive and I have a 16:9 screen (scepter naga 42) the oppo was set at wide normal and also wide/sqz (aka auto). and I still get these bars on top and bottom of the screen??? when I play a "Widescreen" DVD...

Not all movies are 16:9. A 2.35:1 movie is wider than 16:9 and will require letterbox bars at the top and bottom.

www.widescreen.org

If I play a 4:3 dvd I get full screen with no bars with wide normal and black bars left and right with wide/auto.... So what am I doing wrong???

This is completely correct. 4:3 is narrower than 16:9. If you leave the player in "Wide" normal mode it will stretch the image to 16:9. "Wide/SQZ" applies pillarbox bars on the left and right side to retain the original 4:3 aspect ratio on a 16:9 screen.

Krabapple...
"Now as to the Oppo: I got one last weekend, gave it latest firmware, hooked it up to my Pioneer 74tXVI AVR by HDMI, and made sure to set all the Oppo DSP about as 'neutral' as I could (no channel level boost or trim, all speakers to Large, all delays at 0 ft). I adjusted other setttings as per the 'Advanced User Guide' written by Audioholics, kindly included with the player. Played a two-channel SACD track (from Santana's 'Caravanserai'). My AVR said it was receiving 88.2 kHz PCM,"

I too have the Pioneer 74 AVR and I'm wondering where you saw 88.2Khz ? I've just tried a "Chicago" DVD-A disk that has Advanced Resolution Surround @ 96Khz/24-bit and Advanced Stereo Resolution @ 192Khz/24-bit . My AVR's display will only always default to or display 96Khz Stereo or Multi-Channel . I thought this was the limitation in the 74 ?

Scott.................. :confused:

Krabapple...
"Now as to the Oppo: I got one last weekend, gave it latest firmware, hooked it up to my Pioneer 74tXVI AVR by HDMI, and made sure to set all the Oppo DSP about as 'neutral' as I could (no channel level boost or trim, all speakers to Large, all delays at 0 ft). I adjusted other setttings as per the 'Advanced User Guide' written by Audioholics, kindly included with the player. Played a two-channel SACD track (from Santana's 'Caravanserai'). My AVR said it was receiving 88.2 kHz PCM,"

I too have the Pioneer 74 AVR and I'm wondering where you saw 88.2Khz ? I've just tried a "Chicago" DVD-A disk that has Advanced Resolution Surround @ 96Khz/24-bit and Advanced Stereo Resolution @ 192Khz/24-bit . My AVR's display will only always default to or display 96Khz Stereo or Multi-Channel . I thought this was the limitation in the 74 ?

Scott.................. :confused:
The Oppo 970 outputs SACD as 88.2kHz audio for either 2 channel or 5.1 SACD via HDMI. That's why he sees 88.2kHz for SACD. It outputs up to 96kHz (5.1 channel) or up to 192kHz (2 channel) DVD-A. That explains what you see playing DVD-A.

OK so I read through several pages but not all the pages of this thread so I apologize if it's been covered already.

1) Amazon lists an Oppo DV971H for $199 and DV970HD for $149. What is the difference?

2) Is Oppo a Chinese company or something (yet all players are made in China but obviously a Panasonic is different)? How are things like build quality and remote?

3) Does it include an HDMI to DVI adaptor as well as an HDMI cable?

4) It only upconverts DVD via the HDMI port but what about computer-burned DVDs via the component?

5) Specifically, I want to view photos and slide shows (which are movies of slide shows) from iDVD upconverted. But iDVD masters the slide shows at least at pretty low resolutions. Are photo DVDs any better on an upscaling DVD player, regardless of the input used?

6) The memory card reader, do you plug in an SD card and it generates a slide show on the fly or something? How is the quality? Is it using the scaler at all? Obviously, most CE equipment is going to be limited to 1080p, which is only about 2 megapixels so it can't render all the pixels of most digicams. So do some players do better than others at scaling digital photos?

7) Given that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will also upscale (but maybe not support as many media types or codecs as the Oppo), is it worth getting the Oppo or one of the high-def players (which can obviously also play high-def discs)? Is the Mediatek chip in the Oppo likely to be better than the scaling silicon used in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players from the majore CE makers? Again, goes back to whether a relatively-unknown company like Oppo can produce better tech than the major CE cos.

1) Amazon lists an Oppo DV971H for $199 and DV970HD for $149. What is the difference?
The main difference is the de-interlacing and upscaling chipset (Faroudja DCDi chipset in the OPDV971H is superior to that of the MTK solution in the DV-970HD) and the secondary features, such as HDMI, SACD, USB/Card Reader, 480p component and HDMI being exclusive to the DV-970HD.
2) Is Oppo a Chinese company or something (yet all players are made in China but obviously a Panasonic is different)? How are things like build quality and remote?
The remote is functional. The OPDV971H and DV-970HD are well built. They are not "large and built like a tank" but they are not weightless pieces of junk like Cyberhome.
3) Does it include an HDMI to DVI adaptor as well as an HDMI cable?
The DV-970HD only ships with a HDMI-HDMI cable. Only the OPDV971H ships with a DVI-DVI and DVI-HDMI cable.
4) It only upconverts DVD via the HDMI port but what about computer-burned DVDs via the component?
If your personal backups have been stripped of CSS-encryption, then you will be able to upconvert through the component outputs.
5) Specifically, I want to view photos and slide shows (which are movies of slide shows) from iDVD upconverted. But iDVD masters the slide shows at least at pretty low resolutions. Are photo DVDs any better on an upscaling DVD player, regardless of the input used?
The DV-970HD will convert all images to 640x480 for processing then upscale the images to their intended upscaled resolution. For this reason, all images will likely not look good on the DV-970HD.
The DV-970HD has its own slideshow feature that is always defaulted for images.
So do some players do better than others at scaling digital photos?
If you are concerned about JPEG playback, then you will want to look into a DVD player which supports HD-JPEG, as it will not do a major down conversion for displaying.
7) Given that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will also upscale (but maybe not support as many media types or codecs as the Oppo), is it worth getting the Oppo or one of the high-def players (which can obviously also play high-def discs)? Is the Mediatek chip in the Oppo likely to be better than the scaling silicon used in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players from the majore CE makers? Again, goes back to whether a relatively-unknown company like Oppo can produce better tech than the major CE cos.
What becomes a problem with purchasing HD-DVD and Blu-ray at this time is that you will potentially be purchasing a device which may become nothing more than a paperweight. You may want to play it safe and go with a tried and true DVD player at this time, and save your money for when the format war is over, or shows a clear winner.

Thanks for the answers.

So the 971 is not upscaling if it doesn't have HDMI?

BTW, how do you master discs with Xvid or Divx?

I believe the Apple software makes a slide show into a MPEG2 movie at like 852x480 so I wonder how it will do at upscaling it. You can also put in static image files as well. Either way, you lose a lot of resolution to begin with. Even with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players capable of 1080p output, you're still talking a fraction of the resolution as captured by digicams.

With all the HDTVs being sold, you would think there would be some solution for storing at least 720p photos on disc. I know there are some custom media boxes which interface with HDTVs for showing photos but those are pricey and not as convenient as storing on disc.

So the 971 is not upscaling if it doesn't have HDMI?

It upscales over its DVI output. Component is 480i only.

I started reading this thread, and made it through 20 pages, and realized I have over 40 to go. So I apologize if I am jumping ahead and asking about something that was covered in the last 40 pages! But any help would be greatly appreciated, specifically to guide me on what to purchase. I am doing a major rewiring of my system next weekend, so now is the time to add new components.

I watch a Sony KDS-R60XBR1 SXRD. I have never used a scaler in my own home, and it is difficult to translate what I see in a store to whether it would be useful in my own setup.

(1) DVDO sells the VP20 and VP30 in package deals with the Oppo DV-970. Would that be a good combination for the Sony SXRD? Would the scaling in the VP20 or 30 when utilized with the Oppo DV-970 result in an improvement over the scaling already included in the Sony SXRD?

If I went this direction, would a scaler also improve the picture on the SXRD from SD 480i sources like non-HD TV or non-HD DirecTV to justify the price of this combination? Would the difference between the Oppos DV-970 and VP20 combo versus the scaler in the Sony SXRD be extremely subtle or evident in the first ten minutes of looking at the picture?

(2) I'm a little confused as to why the DV-970 is the perfect player for this combination, aside from price. What is it that the DV-970does NOT do with the 480i signal as compared with other DVD players? If you set, for example, the NAD mentioned below to output a 480i signal, what is the difference between that basic 480i signal versus the 480i signal of the Appo?

(3) NAD makes this claim about its players, and I can't find any equivalent info on the DV-970: "However, unlike many “universal” DVD players, the T585 does not convert the SACD’s SD format into CD’s PCM format—which defeats the sonic advantage. Instead we keep separate DSD signal paths to maintain the highest level possible of DVD, CD and SACD audio quality."

This is a reference to the DSD conversion to the anlaog outs. I understand that the DSD gets converted to PDM if you use the HDMI outputs. But what about using the analog outs? Does the Oppo utilize DSD or convert to PCM?

(4) Has anyone commented on the sound quality of SACD with the Oppo using the analog outs as compared to the analog outs on high end ($1000) players from Sony? What about the sound quality when converting it to PCM and using the HDMI digital out?

which oppo will be better for the panasonic th58px600u???

(2) I'm a little confused as to why the DV-970 is the perfect player for this combination, aside from price. What is it that the DV-970does NOT do with the 480i signal as compared with other DVD players? If you set, for example, the NAD mentioned below to output a 480i signal, what is the difference between that basic 480i signal versus the 480i signal of the Appo?

(3) NAD makes this claim about its players, and I can't find any equivalent info on the DV-970: "However, unlike many “universal” DVD players, the T585 does not convert the SACD’s SD format into CD’s PCM format—which defeats the sonic advantage. Instead we keep separate DSD signal paths to maintain the highest level possible of DVD, CD and SACD audio quality."

The data on a DVD needs to be read by a DVD player's MPEG decoder, and then deinterlaced and scaled. The Oppo 970HD has a very good Mediatek MPEG decoder and can output a clean 480i signal via HDMI. This makes an ideal pairing for a video processor.

I can't speak for the quality of the NAD's MPEG decoder. It sounds like their focus is more on audio than on video.

byelye, I had exactly the same thing happen last night.

I'm running the hacked firmware, and there was no disc in the player... it was what you might call "well hung". :p

After I pulled the plug and re-connected, it didn't occur again.

I have experienced the lock up as well, but I am not using beta firmware. I believe it may be related to pressing the eject button on the remote before the unit has fully initialized on startup. If I am patient and wait for the "Loading" message, it does not lock up.

-- Martin

I'd love to hear your opinion on the SACD playback of the Oppo. Some say that these inexpensive SACD players sound no better playing SACDs than they do playing CDs.

Again, while this is hardly apparent from the marketing hype, nor from the blather in audiophile magazines/forums, there is *no* excusable reason why an SACD player *should* sound better playing SACDs than playing CDs...but of course if the player manufacturer apparently uses a higher quality signal path for SACD vs CD (as on an early Linn Unidisc player), or if the SACD makers purposely use different mastering on the SACD and CD layers (e.g., as on "Dark Side of the Moon'), then that might cause listeners to hear a real difference, which they could erroneously assume is due to the *formats*.


SACDs are neat-o as multichannel delivery formats; the Orange Book (SACD) spec is also admirable in that it forbids digital clipping, and thus helps encourage the use of the wide dynamic range that was one of the original promises of digital (sadly wasted in many of today's dynamically compressed recordings and remasters). But the vaunted audible benefits of low-bit/ultrahigh sample rate have extremely little in the way of experimental support -- arguable *none*, in terms of benefits in the home listening environment.

I have a 970, a 971, and a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player. For SD DVDs, I have found that the HD-A1 is the best, followed by the 971, then the 970. I have a VP50 coming, and I am assuming that the 970/VP50 combo will move to the head of the list.

I have a question, I know it is completely subjective, just for curiosity sake. For those who have the 970/VP30 combo, how much better is it than the HD-A1? How much better is a SDI modded player? Thanks for any opinions.

I have a question, I know it is completely subjective, just for curiosity sake. For those who have the 970/VP30 combo, how much better is it than the HD-A1? How much better is a SDI modded player? Thanks for any opinions.

The HD-A1 will not output a 480i signal for standard DVDs over HDMI. Thus you're forced to use the player's deinterlacer, which is fine for film-based content but not so good for video-based content. The A1 also forces a pillarbox mode for 4:3 and non-anamorphic letterbox discs and has no zoom mode. For those reasons, it's better to feed a 480i signal from the 970HD to the scaler, which will use superior deinterlacing and scaling. The 970HD is also region-free for DVD, while the A1 is not.

As for the difference between HDMI and SDI, when sending a 480i signal they're essentially equal. There are some theoretical advantages to SDI, but your eye won't be able to tell the difference.

So the 971 is not upscaling if it doesn't have HDMI?
That is correct
BTW, how do you master discs with Xvid or Divx?
There are many mastering tools out there. I would recommend looking at the Doom9.net (http://www.doom9.org) information site.
I believe the Apple software makes a slide show into a MPEG2 movie at like 852x480 so I wonder how it will do at upscaling it.
The maximum resolution supported by the OPDV971H and DV-970HD is 720x480. If Apple encodes it at a higher resolution, it will not be decoded in its MPEG-2 form.

Here are some comments from 2 months of playing with the Oppo. Disclaimer: I'm more of a classical music audiophile than a videophile.

DVD player: Oppo DV-970HD, HDMI output at 480p (firmware: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 1A-0526; I think this is the original version and not any beta.)
DVD player (previous): Pioneer DV-444, component output at 480i
TV: Panasonic TH-42PD50U (a 42 inch ED model)
Calibration disc: DVE

PICTURE QUALITY

I compared the Oppo to the 4 year old Pioneer, and the improvement is smaller than I expected (because of my ED TV?). This comparison is done after carefull calibration for both players using DVE and movie DVDs.

To quantify this difference: If someone picks a DVD that I know (from my DVD collection) and play it with one of the two players and ask me which player is being used, I think my guess will be more than 50% correct, but nowhere near 100%.

Overall, I prefer the Oppo which is a little sharper. But the Pioneer's picture, which I think is technically less accurate, seems easier on the eyes.

DEINTERLACER

The TV's deinterlacer is clearly better than my Pioneer DVD's, therefore I used the Pioneer's 480i output. But I can't really choose between the TV's or the Oppo's. The Oppo seems a tiny bit sharper. But on DVE's Wilcox (?) test screen, the Oppo's deinterlacer takes a lot longer to lock onto the small boxes with angel stripes than the TV's deinterlacer. I don't have HQV test disc so I can't run better tests. But I did try to find movie scenes similar to those on HQV, and I can't observe clear differences.

AUDIO QUALITY FROM DVD

My main tests are classical music DVDs that I also have the CD version. My gold reference is playing the CD version in my Sony CDP-XA20ES CD player (2 channel). I tested the Oppo and Pioneer playing DVD, also output analogue 2 channel into my Arcam A80 amplifier. The amp outputs to Epos M15 speakers through MIT speaker cables. Ideally a DVD player would play the concert DVD with the same sound quality as a CD player play the concert CD. (I suspect it's never possible because of compression on DVD soundtrack.)

For my Pioneer DVD player, I can't even begin to compare the sound of DVD concerts with the sound of the corresponding CD. The difference is big. But with the Oppo, I am happy to say it's at a level comparable to CD.

The DVD/Oppo is still worse than the CD/Sony. The sound is a bit hard compared to the CD/Sony which has a relax and easy quality to it. But of course, on a DVD I get to also see the concert, and with visual one tends to be a little less critical on the sound.

When watching movie DVDs, the sound is much better than my old Pioneer. But since I don't have any gold reference for this, I can only say I am satisfied but no more.

AUDIO QUALITY FROM CD

With both using analogue 2 channel output, the Oppo is no match for the Sony CDP-XA20ES CD player. But it's surprisingly close. If I'm not on my main listening sofa, or if I'm doing something else while I listen, I will be fairly happy with the Oppo. On critical listening, I can quite easily tell and certainly prefer the Sony, which in fairness, is a dedicated CD player costing some 8 times more.

Basically the difference is in imaging and soundstage. The Sony presents the instruments in a natural 3D-like acoustic space. The Oppo presents the same instruments, but the soundstage is more artificial and 2D.

AUDIO QUALITY FROM SACD

I have only tested one SACD (Shostokovich Sym 5 played by Gergiev and Kirov), with SACD played by Oppo and the CD layer played by my Sony CD player. Both with 2 channel analogue output. The SACD/Oppo has a slightly smoother sound (high strings especially benefit). But the difference is not that big. The bigger difference is again in the soundstage and imaging as I described above. Here the CD/Sony is definitely better. Overall, I prefer the CD/Sony.

BREAK-IN

I know there are people who don't believe some equipment need breaking in. But from my experience in audio, break-in is very real with some equipment. The changes in sound from my amplifer (Arcam A80), speakers (Epos M15), and speaker cables (MIT Terminator 4) are obvious and unmistakable. The speaker cables, especially, sounded almost like AM radio in the first few hours of use. The MIT cables, you should know, has an in-series passive electronic box, which may largely account for the break in requirement.

Back to the Oppo, I think I noticed improvements in sound and picture quality during the initial period. However, I cannot be sure about this because during the first week of use, I keep changing a large number of settings on the Oppo, TV, and audio components.

BUGS AND OTHER COMMENTS

- Angle display is alway displayed, even when the setting is OFF.
- DVD disc compatibility is not perfect, especially home-made DVDs. It plays more discs than my Pioneer, home made or otherwise, but still doesn't play through The Matrix (commercial release DVD).
- The load and unload speed is very slow.
- When used with my Pansonic plasma, I think the panni should be set to use "light" black level. If I use "dark" black level, the Oppo brightness needs to be at +11 for the same Panni brightness setting. But I think the overall picture quality is worse in this way even if the black level is 'correct', perhaps because of extra processing required (?).
- I don't quite understand the Oppo gamma settings. It seems to me OFF is normal, uncorrected gamma. LOW makes the greys a little darker. MEDIUM makes the greys fairly dark. HIGH makes the greys very dark. No setting makes the greys lighter, which might be more useful to me. I think the settings shoudl be labled OFF, DARK, DARKER, DARKEST, or OFF, HIGH, HIGHER, HIGHEST.
- Occasionally, a disc can take a very very long time to load. This happened to me on DVD and SACD. Also, several times it stopped playing in the middle of an SACD track. I had to STOP and PLAY again.

Just got my new 970 today..

Got things running, and tossed in Avia to setup colors sharpness, etc...

When I got to the sharprness stage, it was rather blurry (smudgy)..

I had the pioneer hdmi player(I think the dv-490v), and pioneer dv-588 player, and with the same test pattern for sharpness (and with same value on t.v. for sharpness), the pioneers look MUCH sharper..

To overcome this, I had to increase my sharpenss from 35 to 70!! After this, dvd looks awesome on the oppo...

I have a sony sxrd kds-60a2000, using the anthem D2 as the external scaler (set to 1080p)..

I'm feeding the anthem a 480i HDMI video setting..


Is this normal?? or do I have a problem... I also updated to latest beta firmware..

-thanks..

- I don't quite understand the Oppo gamma settings. It seems to me OFF is normal, uncorrected gamma. LOW makes the greys a little darker. MEDIUM makes the greys fairly dark. HIGH makes the greys very dark. No setting makes the greys lighter, which might be more useful to me. I think the settings shoudl be labled OFF, DARK, DARKER, DARKEST, or OFF, HIGH, HIGHER, HIGHEST.

Gamma controls the actual transition between black and white. Increasing the Gamma on the OPDV971H decreases the steps between black and white, which causes the overall picture to decrease in brightness as there are less steps.

Most other equipement uses positive steps in gamma to increase the steps between black and white. So, a positive increase in gamma will wash out the overall image.

Don't know why OPPO is doing it their way, though it could be related to source gamma rather than display gamma.

May be a stupid question..

Please forgive me!

Can 970H output SACD to the 2 channel analog output?
Or do I need to hook up to the 5.1 output?

.Nidas- it's not a stupid Q?
The other day I placed in a Hybrid stereo SACD- and it didn't play. I was going to play around with it to see what was up; before posting , some one else might help us.
*I have a dedicated SACD Sony player.
*970 only has coax- but plays CD's nicely
* I had the 970 cabled up to 6-anolog 5.1` earlier but the Sony sounded much better

BUGS AND OTHER COMMENTS

- Angle display is alway displayed, even when the setting is OFF.

The last couple of firmwares should have fixed this problem. Which firmware do you have installed, and what DVD are you seeing the problem on?

The last couple of firmwares should have fixed this problem. Which firmware do you have installed, and what DVD are you seeing the problem on?

My firmware: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 1A-0526; I think this is the original version and not any beta. Good to know it's already fixed.

I saw this problem on Beethoven Sym 3 by Abbado and Berlin PO on EuroArts. The whole disc has an alternate angle focused on the conductor all the time. So the angle icon is displayed through the whole disc ... annoying.

Again, while this is hardly apparent from the marketing hype, nor from the blather in audiophile magazines/forums, there is *no* excusable reason why an SACD player *should* sound better playing SACDs than playing CDs...but of course if the player manufacturer apparently uses a higher quality signal path for SACD vs CD (as on an early Linn Unidisc player), or if the SACD makers purposely use different mastering on the SACD and CD layers (e.g., as on "Dark Side of the Moon'), then that might cause listeners to hear a real difference, which they could erroneously assume is due to the *formats*.


SACDs are neat-o as multichannel delivery formats; the Orange Book (SACD) spec is also admirable in that it forbids digital clipping, and thus helps encourage the use of the wide dynamic range that was one of the original promises of digital (sadly wasted in many of today's dynamically compressed recordings and remasters). But the vaunted audible benefits of low-bit/ultrahigh sample rate have extremely little in the way of experimental support -- arguable *none*, in terms of benefits in the home listening environment.

Interesting point of view. I guess the SACD "should" sound better because of the increased sampling rate (bringing Nyquist far above an audible frequency, as one effect of that). That should also make it easier to make good DACs (as there's more information there to begin with) and simplify the job of filtering at the analog output stage (no brick wall required). You seem to be implying that CD is good enough, so there's no reason to go further. But I'm not really sure, because you haven't said why you think what you do.

The 970's ability to correctly display non-anamorphic widescreen material is excellent.Just a quick question. Is this ability of 970 you are talking about also present in 971? One other quick question, sorry, Oppo's website suggests 971 for displays larger than 50", but if I'm worried about macroblocking, what display technology/brand am I limited to? Sorry again if my questions are too trivial.

My firmware: MVer: 05.00.01.07 Batch: 1A-0526; I think this is the original version and not any beta. Good to know it's already fixed.

I saw this problem on Beethoven Sym 3 by Abbado and Berlin PO on EuroArts. The whole disc has an alternate angle focused on the conductor all the time. So the angle icon is displayed through the whole disc ... annoying.

Probably the disk itself activated it, not the player.

Just a quick question. Is this ability of 970 you are talking about also present in 971? One other quick question, sorry, Oppo's website suggests 971 for displays larger than 50", but if I'm worried about macroblocking, what display technology/brand am I limited to? Sorry again if my questions are too trivial.

If you are worried about macroblocking, then you will want to look at the DV-970HD. Forget about the OPDV971H in this regard.

The DV-970HD will still produce a beautiful image, it will just be slightly lower than that of the OPDV971H on the same display.

This is completely correct. 4:3 is narrower than 16:9. If you leave the player in "Wide" normal mode it will stretch the image to 16:9. "Wide/SQZ" applies pillarbox bars on the left and right side to retain the original 4:3 aspect ratio on a 16:9 screen.


So, does this mean that the 970 is always outputting a 16:9 signal, with the only variable being whether the image is sent Wide (fullscreen 16:9 anamorphic stretch) or Wide/SQZ (with pillars insterted into the image), which is the same as saying it never actually sends a true 4:3 image that a TV can detect as 4:3? If so, then this is the same way that the DirecTV HR10-250 operates, except that the D* box uses the terms "Full" (instead of Wide) and "Panel" (instead of Wide/SQZ).

The downside to this is that you are forced to use the DVD or Sat box to automatically display 4:3 material in its OAR on a widescreen TV. This meanst there is no option to allow the TV to use its auto aspect control feature to display the 4:3 material as 4:3, which for other reasons, could be preferable.

My very old JVC DVD player does not operate the same way as the OPPO does. I'm pretty sure it sends a 4:3 image as 4:3 to the TV, and only sends a wide image when it detects the anamorphic flag. Anyone have any idea why OPPO chose to always send a widescreen signal (assuming the WIDE/SQZ is still a widescreen image, just with bars inserted), instead of the true OAR?

I can understand needing this option for the 720 or 1080 outputs, but why force it on the 480i?

Just a quick question. Is this ability of 970 you are talking about also present in 971?

On my 971, non-anamorphic letterboxed titles are displayed within 4:3 boundaries.

-Bill

If you are worried about macroblocking, then you will want to look at the DV-970HD. Forget about the OPDV971H in this regard.

The DV-970HD will still produce a beautiful image, it will just be slightly lower than the of the OPDV971H on the same display.
Thanks, Neuromancer. I don't know if I should worry about macroblocking since I don't have either a HDTV or a DVD at this time. I'm still not clear whether macroblocking has more to do with DVD or HDTV. I'm in the planning stage trying to put together a list. DV-971H has good reviews as well as affordable pricing and Oppo's own site recommends this unit for display larger than 50", which is what I intend to get. I'm actually leaning towards Mitsubishi 831 series or JVC FH97 series.

So correct me if I'm wrong but 1) are you saying macroblocking is unavoidable? 2) DV-970HD will do just fine for large displays?

By the way, I just realized Oppo is located pretty close to where I live. The website says customer pickup is available. Zero shipping. :D

For my TV remote (Mitusbishi), Oppo is not listed as one of the preprogrammed selections and it is not a learning remote.

Anyone had any luck trying other mfr remote codes in place of Oppos?

I only need the basic commands on my main TV remote to run the DVD player.

Thanks!

So correct me if I'm wrong but 1) are you saying macroblocking is unavoidable? 2) DV-970HD will do just fine for large displays?

Macroblocking is unavoidable for the simple reason that macroblocking is an inherent error associated with video compression. What becomes a factor is the extent of which your macroblocking errors are associated to the source material, the DVD player, and the television display. The OPDV971H will enhance macroblocking, and unless you have total control over your display, these enhancements can't be removed.

The OPDV971H is recommended for larger dislpays because it has the better de-interlacer and scaling chipset. The larger the picture, the easier it is to see the difference between good and great de-interlacing and upscaling. The DV-970HD is still a very good DVD player, it just ins't as good as the OPDV971H in some respects.

So, does this mean that the 970 is always outputting a 16:9 signal, with the only variable being whether the image is sent Wide (fullscreen 16:9 anamorphic stretch) or Wide/SQZ (with pillars insterted into the image),

If you upscale to 720p or 1080i, those resolution are by definition 16:9 in shape. In order to watch 4:3 material at those resolutions, the image must be pillarboxed at the source.

480i and 480p resolutions can be either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on the content and how the disc was authored (anamorphic or non-anamorphic). Both output 720x480 pixels, but DVD pixels aren't square and the TV will decide whether to stretch them to 16:9 or not.

If you upscale to 720p or 1080i, those resolution are by definition 16:9 in shape. In order to watch 4:3 material at those resolutions, the image must be pillarboxed at the source.

480i and 480p resolutions can be either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on the content and how the disc was authored (anamorphic or non-anamorphic). Both output 720x480 pixels, but DVD pixels aren't square and the TV will decide whether to stretch them to 16:9 or not.


Thanks, Josh.

I use the 480i output via HDMI. I guess my TV (Elite Pro 1130HD) does not recognize the the material as being authored in 4:3 then. I would have thought that with the 970HD set to WIDE (no pillars inserted by the DVD player) and the 1130HD set to display 4:3 in its OAR, that DVDs such as Friends or Seinfeld (which are non-anamorphic) would display at 4:3 (as is the case with my old JVC dvd player connected to a Sony KD-XS955), however my experience has been that the Pioneer stretches the 4:3 image. This is why I thought the image was being transmitted from the DVD player in wide or full mode. I can toggle the display's screen size to get to 4:3, but it doesn't automatically detect it and display it in the center of the 16:9 screen, as I thought it would (even though I turned on auto-format). I could be doing something wrong, but I've tried all the combinations and can't seem to get it to work. Obviously I can just use WIDE/SQZ, but that wasn't the point of my earlier post.

Interesting point of view. I guess the SACD "should" sound better because of the increased sampling rate (bringing Nyquist far above an audible frequency, as one effect of that).

Increasing the sampling rate, of itself, doesn't improve what's already in the audible range.
That's what Nyquist tells us too.


That should also make it easier to make good DACs (as there's more information there to begin with)

Good DACs don't need 'more information'.

and simplify the job of filtering at the analog output stage (no brick wall required).


Oversampling on output has been used for years in home CD players so the 'brick wall' filter is a nonissue. Other unsupported complaints about CD filtering are dealt with here:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/FIR-digitalaudio.php



You seem to be implying that CD is good enough, so there's no reason to go further. But I'm not really sure, because you haven't said why you think what you do.

CD is a home delivery format, as is SACD and DVD-A. If you read my posts, you will see that I suggest that you :

consider the available dynamic range/signal-to-noise of a typical (or even 'high end') home listening environment, versus what is available from CD (and then for fun, try to find out the dynamic range of old analog recording master tapes). Is more than 16 dithered bits needed at home?

And given human hearing, Nyquist and oversampling, do we need more than 44 kHz sampling rate for the home delivery media?

That leaves us with the anecdotal claims that SACDs sound better than CDs. Do those who say so know for sure that they are comparing two formats fairly, rather than e.g., two masterings, or two playback chains with different parameter settings?

Macroblocking is unavoidable for the simple reason that macroblocking is an inherent error associated with video compression. What becomes a factor is the extent of which your macroblocking errors are associated to the source material, the DVD player, and the television display. The OPDV971H will enhance macroblocking, and unless you have total control over your display, these enhancements can't be removed. So does 971 make macroblocking worse or does it bring out macroblocking that otherwise would not be an issue (like with 970)?

You suggest macroblocking could be due to source material (which we have no control of), the DVD player (which we can pick and choose), and the television display (which again we can pick and choose). So, are you aware of television display technologies/brands that do not add to macroblocking? What I'm trying to get at is to eliminate/minimize 2 of the 3 sources of macroblocking. Does it make sense?The OPDV971H is recommended for larger dislpays because it has the better de-interlacer and scaling chipset. The larger the picture, the easier it is to see the difference between good and great de-interlacing and upscaling. The DV-970HD is still a very good DVD player, it just ins't as good as the OPDV971H in some respects.Do yo know the upcoming replacement for 971 will have the best of both worlds? Better chipset (no macroblocking) as well as better picture, plus HDMI to boot? Thanks again.

On my 971, non-anamorphic letterboxed titles are displayed within 4:3 boundaries.

-BillThanks. How does macroblocking affect your viewing?

Thanks. How does macroblocking affect your viewing?

Not at all. I have an LCD. Almost all macroblocking comments I hear are from plasma owners.

-Bill

Not at all. I have an LCD. Almost all macroblocking comments I hear are from plasma owners.

-BillWow! This is great piece of intelligence. I wasn't considering either LCD or plasma but now I might just avoid plasma like the plague. :eek:

Do you know of any macroblocking issues with Microdisplay type screens?

So does 971 make macroblocking worse or does it bring out macroblocking that otherwise would not be an issue (like with 970)?

It makes it worse than the original source. You can't create macroblocking, you can just enhance it.

So, are you aware of television display technologies/brands that do not add to macroblocking?

I would stay away from RP DLP and Plasma if macroblocking is your main concern.

Better chipset (no macroblocking) as well as better picture, plus HDMI to boot?

OPPO is not talking about their chipset for the replacement unit. If it is the same FLI2310 chipset, you will have the same macroblocking errors as with the OPDV971H.

It makes it worse than the original source. You can't create macroblocking, you can just enhance it.



I would stay away from RP DLP and Plasma if macroblocking is your main concern. Bill also suggested to avoid Plasma. I can't say macroblocking is my main concern, since I've learned from various contributors elsewhere in AVS forum about plenty of other potential problems. I guess what I'm trying to do right now is to choose the display technology with the least number of potential problems. Since macroblocking might actually be more troubling to viewers, I'm going to try my best to go around it.

BTW, do you think 971 with displays other than RP DLP and Plasma might not be so bad?
OPPO is not talking about their chipset for the replacement unit. If it is the same FLI2310 chipset, you will have the same macroblocking errors as with the OPDV971H.My sense after going through this thread and the one on 971 is that OPPO people are very responsive to consumer inputs. Perhaps they might surprise everyone with their next release. :rolleyes:

Other display devices are less prone to enhancing macroblocking, so the "enhancement" on the OPDV971H is less noticeable, if non-existent.

Other display devices are less prone to enhancing macroblocking, so the "enhancement" on the OPDV971H is less noticeable, if non-existent.OK, this settles it. My top choice for display: JVC LCoS. Top choice for DVD: Oppo DV971H replacement, with HDMI. I have time, I can wait.

My display is a pioneer elite CRT HDTV. The 971 showed macroblocking on mine. It wasn't too bad, and not nearly as bad as other players that I've owned that use the farjouda chip. The macroblocking is there with the 971, it just maybe isn't as noticeable on some displays.

My display is a pioneer elite CRT HDTV. The 971 showed macroblocking on mine. It wasn't too bad, and not nearly as bad as other players that I've owned that use the farjouda chip. The macroblocking is there with the 971, it just maybe isn't as noticeable on some displays.Wait, did you mean plasma?

My display is a pioneer elite CRT HDTV. The 971 showed macroblocking on mine. It wasn't too bad, and not nearly as bad as other players that I've owned that use the farjouda chip. The macroblocking is there with the 971, it just maybe isn't as noticeable on some displays.

That was pretty much my experience with the 971 and my Sony CRT RPTV.

I actually prefered the 970 because it has no macroblocking and a bit sharper image.

Wait, did you mean plasma?

No, there are CRT HDTVs (tube, front projection, rear projection).

No, there are CRT HDTVs (tube, front projection, rear projection).

Correct. I should have been more specific. Mine is a rear projection CRT. Any player I've had with the Faroudja 23xx chip (3 of them) has shown macroblocking. The oppo 971 far and away had the least.

No, there are CRT HDTVs (tube, front projection, rear projection).Correct. I should have been more specific. Mine is a rear projection CRT.OK, fellas, I better return to display 101. :confused:

Before EDTV and HDTV, all TVs were CRT, front and rear. Correct?

Now, HDTV comes in flat panel (LCD & Plasma), rear projection (microdisplay - LCD, DSP, & LCoS), and front projection (projectors - LCD and DSP).

What's CRT HDTV? Can you name a model so I can look it up?

What makes the 970 so special for the purpose of using it with a scaler/processor? Is it because it outputs 480i through HDMI?

Can any other DVD player also be used if it also outputs 480i through HDMI?

OK, fellas, I better return to display 101. :confused:

Before EDTV and HDTV, all TVs were CRT, front and rear. Correct?

Now, HDTV comes in flat panel (LCD & Plasma), rear projection (microdisplay - LCD, DSP, & LCoS), and front projection (projectors - LCD and DSP).

What's CRT HDTV? Can you name a model so I can look it up?
Incorrect

CRT is a technology like LCD, DLP, or Plasma. It has nothing to do with the resolution of the display.

I have a Hitachi CRT Rear Projection set that is HDTV. Hitachi 57S715

OK, fellas, I better return to display 101. :confused:

Before EDTV and HDTV, all TVs were CRT, front and rear. Correct?

Now, HDTV comes in flat panel (LCD & Plasma), rear projection (microdisplay - LCD, DSP, & LCoS), and front projection (projectors - LCD and DSP).

What's CRT HDTV? Can you name a model so I can look it up?

Lots of CRTs are also HDTVs (although many companies have scaled back production the past couple of years)

Here's one:
Sony KD-34XBR970 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KD34XBR970&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_34to36TVs)

OK, fellas, I better return to display 101. :confused:

Before EDTV and HDTV, all TVs were CRT, front and rear. Correct?

Now, HDTV comes in flat panel (LCD & Plasma), rear projection (microdisplay - LCD, DSP, & LCoS), and front projection (projectors - LCD and DSP).

What's CRT HDTV? Can you name a model so I can look it up?

You have to remember that CRT displays were long since HDTV compatible before flat panel, microdisplays, and other technologies developed. Also remember that CRT monitors have been doing "HD" resolutions for decades, the problem was keeping the quality at a large screen size.

CRT based tubes, rear projection, and front projection displays were the first true HD technologies when they started to support 1080i on the commercial level, as early as 1996 (though more common by 1998).

What makes the 970 so special for the purpose of using it with a scaler/processor? Is it because it outputs 480i through HDMI?

Can any other DVD player also be used if it also outputs 480i through HDMI?

Just supporting 480i is not enough. The DVD player has to have a well designed, non-abstrusive MPEG Decoder. If the decoder adds its own filters before it is sent to an external scaler for processing, or alters the original decode, then you are getting a less than ideal video transfer.

The DV-970HD has a very well designed MPEG-2 decoder in this regards, is a well built unit, will read almost all media, and has great technical services.

My display is a pioneer elite CRT HDTV. The 971 showed macroblocking on mine. It wasn't too bad, and not nearly as bad as other players that I've owned that use the farjouda chip. The macroblocking is there with the 971, it just maybe isn't as noticeable on some displays.The funny thing is that I couldn't find any pioneer elite CRT HDTV mentioned on their website. Maybe this type of HDTV is just not popular? I certainly don't see any store advertising any such models including Sony KD-34XBR970 mentioned earlier. I also read some where that screen dimension is limited to about 36" and super heavy. Plus I take it you can't get 1080p.

Sorry for the digression but at least I learned something new today. :p

His television is very obsolete by now. I would be very surprised if they still had it listed on their website. It would be like going to Fords website and trying to find information on the 67 Mustang.

His television is very obsolete by now. I would be very surprised if they still had it listed on their website. It would be like going to Fords website and trying to find information on the 67 Mustang. :p :D
I have a 94 Mitsubish 35" CRT. It was born after 67. Any chance it is HDTV? :eek:

You have to remember that CRT displays were long since HDTV compatible before flat panel, microdisplays, and other technologies developed. Also remember that CRT monitors have been doing "HD" resolutions for decades, the problem was keeping the quality at a large screen size.



The later model HD CRT RPTV at large sizes (when properly calibrated) from Sony, Mits, Hitachi, Pioneer didn't have issues keep the quality high.

The funny thing is that I couldn't find any pioneer elite CRT HDTV mentioned on their website. Maybe this type of HDTV is just not popular? I certainly don't see any store advertising any such models including Sony KD-34XBR970 mentioned earlier. I also read some where that screen dimension is limited to about 36" and super heavy. Plus I take it you can't get 1080p.

Sorry for the digression but at least I learned something new today. :p

Pioneer quit making CRT HDTV's about two years ago. My HDTV is about three years old. the Elite sets were about the best out there, so they were popular. There aren't many made today because plasma, lcd, etc sets are lighter, smaller, etc. Mine elite is a 53" model, but weights near 300lbs. It's built like a tank and has a beautiful finish unlike the new style sets.

Mitsubishi made sets that were up to like 73" and pioneer's biggest was 64". Mine does up to 1080i.

Increasing the sampling rate, of itself, doesn't improve what's already in the audible range.
That's what Nyquist tells us too.




Good DACs don't need 'more information'.




Oversampling on output has been used for years in home CD players so the 'brick wall' filter is a nonissue. Other unsupported complaints about CD filtering are dealt with here:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/FIR-digitalaudio.php





CD is a home delivery format, as is SACD and DVD-A. If you read my posts, you will see that I suggest that you :

consider the available dynamic range/signal-to-noise of a typical (or even 'high end') home listening environment, versus what is available from CD (and then for fun, try to find out the dynamic range of old analog recording master tapes). Is more than 16 dithered bits needed at home?

And given human hearing, Nyquist and oversampling, do we need more than 44 kHz sampling rate for the home delivery media?

That leaves us with the anecdotal claims that SACDs sound better than CDs. Do those who say so know for sure that they are comparing two formats fairly, rather than e.g., two masterings, or two playback chains with different parameter settings?

Well, your CD filtering link says that over-sampling is not needed in the first place, yet you say that over-smapling addressed that issue. Interesting read nevertheless.

I'll buy that doubling Nyquist doesn't make for better information below the original Nyquist, so I guess the question is whether anything is gained at near and above 20 KHz frequencies (in terms of musical qualities), as some have hypothesized. Also, oversampling (is it actually changes anything) addresses the same issue as increasing sampling rate on high res formats (raising Nyquist to avoid the brick wall), except it does it with real content instead of interpolation. So if oversampling achieves anything, then higher sampling rates must surely be a better way to do it.

...Mine does up to 1080i.
As I recall, due to the sizing of the CRT projectors, the 1080i designation was a distorted value, just as a 768p plasma "accepts" 1080i inputs. The big deal back then was that a 9" projector was needed, and everyone was using 7" projectors due to the cost differential. Was the Elite a 9"?

As I recall, due to the sizing of the CRT projectors, the 1080i designation was a distorted value, just as a 768p plasma "accepts" 1080i inputs. The big deal back then was that a 9" projector was needed, and everyone was using 7" projectors due to the cost differential. Was the Elite a 9"?


True. The better 7" guns do about 700-800 lines from what I've heard. The 9" get pretty close to 1080.

True. The better 7" guns do about 700-800 lines from what I've heard. The 9" get pretty close to 1080.
7" guns have no problem doing 1080. They have a problem with the 1920 side. They only get into the 1400-1600 range (depending who you believe). 9" guns have no problems getting the full 1920x1080.

Which Oppo (971 vs 970) is better for Pioneer CRT rear projection HDTV (64") with HDMI input, and why? Or should I wait for the 971 replacement which is due in Fall? Thanks!

Pioneer quit making CRT HDTV's about two years ago. My HDTV is about three years old. the Elite sets were about the best out there, so they were popular. There aren't many made today because plasma, lcd, etc sets are lighter, smaller, etc. Mine elite is a 53" model, but weights near 300lbs. It's built like a tank and has a beautiful finish unlike the new style sets.

Mitsubishi made sets that were up to like 73" and pioneer's biggest was 64". Mine does up to 1080i.They made CRT HDTV to 73"? Wow! Those must have weighed a ton. But sounds like you are quite happy with your elite. Does it do 720p? Just curious, what did you have to dish out for it?

7" guns have no problem doing 1080.

I thought since 7" guns have overlapping horizontal scanlines at 1080i scanrate that it would be an issue getting to true 1080.

Well, your CD filtering link says that over-sampling is not needed in the first place ...

I don't agree with your summary of the Audioholics article. (Underline in the following inserted by me.)

In the great bulk of CD players and outboard DAC's, an active low pass filter is used to smooth out the waveforms coming out of the DAC chip. One of the great properties of some types of active filters is that they will not introduce phase shifts in the band of interest. The two most commonly used for this application are Bessel and GIC active low pass filters. The one used for this converter is a GIC filter. I should also note that the unit tested has a standard 8 times over sampling FIR digital filter. There is no up sampling in this unit.

So in my understanding (and I could wrong on some details), oversampling is part of the reason that the reconstructed analog waveform with frequency content <= 20 kHz shows no measurable phase deviation anywhere in that frequency range. The oversampling is built into the operation of the finite impulse response (FIR) digital filter, that processes the digital signal before it gets to the DAC (we can think of this step as "preparing" the digital signal for the D-to-A conversion step). The signal processing by the FIR digital filter just before the DAC, and the Bessel or GIC active low-pass analog filter just after the DAC, work together to produce the phase-deviation-free, reconstructed analog waveform that is measured at the analog output of the player.

Well, your CD filtering link says that over-sampling is not needed in the first place, yet you say that over-smapling addressed that issue. Interesting read nevertheless.

Interesting or not, obviously you've misread it if that's what you gleaned. In fact, Banquer notes that one of the worst-performing CD players he's ever tested DIDN'T use oversampling (it dated from the early years of CD players) and did use an *analog* brickwall filter -- conditions which do not hold in players today (except in some ridiculously misguided and overpriced 'high-end' models):

"In addition, over the years I have had numerous cd players and outboard DAC's on my bench for test. The have been only two players that failed this test. One that was “modified” from the original unit, and the modification was done in the low pass filter section after the DAC. The ” modification” caused the unit to be 7.5 db down at 20 kHz and a pronounced phase shift at 20 kHz. The second unit was a very old unit dating from the early 1980's that had no over sampling and an analog brick wall filter used for the low pass filter. This type of design was discontinued close to 20 years ago, and for good reason."



I'll buy that doubling Nyquist doesn't make for better information below the original Nyquist, so I guess the question is whether anything is gained at near and above 20 KHz frequencies (in terms of musical qualities), as some have hypothesized.


Key word: hypothesized. No one's ever demonstrated an ability to *hear* that stuff, though a Japanese group (Oohashi et al), using custom-made playback gear that NO consumer would have, claims that they detect differential brain activity , and *preference* in a blind test , when high frequencies are included. Another Japanese group was unable to replicate their findings. That's essentially it for support of the hypothesis. The only other 'data' is that musical instruments do indeed produce frequencies above 20 kHz. But so what? If we don't hear it, we don't need to capture it, any more than a photograph needs to capture infrared or ultraviolet light to be visibly 'faithful'.


Also, oversampling (is it actually changes anything)

It most certainly does, in that it changes the way CD players can be designed: it makes it easier for them to achieve the theoretical potential of digital playback. It surmounts early *implementation* issues of CD playback, in other words.


addresses the same issue as increasing sampling rate on high res formats (raising Nyquist to avoid the brick wall), except it does it with real content instead of interpolation. So if oversampling achieves anything, then higher sampling rates must surely be a better way to do it.

As *recording and production* formats, sure, higher bit depths (and to a lesser extent sampling rates -- more does not equal better there, but does equal larger files and more processing power requirements) *already* have their place. But for home playback (*delivery formats), no, becasue wer're already so far into the CD era. There are costs involved in implementing different formats in a player, sorry.

SACD , btw, has its own technical issues directly related to its super-high sampling rate. Huge amounts of distortion have to be dealt with and moved out of the audible band. However, this doesn't necessarily mean they are gone; you had better hope your playback gear can handle them.

The amusing thing is that for ever ten audiophiles who claim SACD is just the super-duperest, there's a couple who say it's rotten

e.g.

http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm
http://www.iar-80.com/page17.html

fwiw, I doubt either the 'rottenness' or the 'superness' are audible, in properly functioning systems, now that 1-bit DSD is more likely "DSD-wide" (also known waggishly as 'PCM narrow") ;>

For a discussion of the problem with 1-bit DSD which raged circa 2001 after Lipshitz & Vanderkooy's paper went into circulation) see

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.high-end/browse_frm/thread/2428ee4bbae2f8cc/

.

Please keep this thread on topic and take the off topic to its own thread. Thank you.

Is the included HDMI cable or good quality?
And, how does the mirror finish look in person?

Is the included HDMI cable or good quality?
And, how does the mirror finish look in person?

I received my 970 two days ago. The HDMI cable is very good, 24 AWG. The mirror finish is very cool--when you look at it, you can't tell there's a display at all. I'm very happy with this unit.

Has anyone read the recent review article at HDTVexpert (http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/psuedo_hd.html) in which the 970 was compared to two other players costing more than two grand (see above) in video processing tests. Needless to say, the 970 did not fare too well against the other two. But it is interesting to see Oppo getting attention from enthusiasts and experts alike, without too many unkind words I might add.

They made CRT HDTV to 73"? Wow! Those must have weighed a ton. But sounds like you are quite happy with your elite. Does it do 720p? Just curious, what did you have to dish out for it?

My Pioneer will accept 720p but it will not display it. It will upconvert it to 1080i. I paid I think $2500 for my set. It was more expensive than the others by far, but the Elite had the best internal deinterlacer, best aspect ratio (zoom) modes, best comb filter, etc. I have a laserdisc player so it was very important to me to have a TV that not only did a great job with DVD and HD material, but with analog sources like LD as well. The elite was made with analog sources in mind, hence it's great built in deinterlacing, comb filter, etc.

I'm very happy with my elite. It does a great job. I'm looking forward to getting an ISF calibration touch up soon to get the most out of it.

Anyone else having any problems with the player freezing?

A few times I have fallen asleep watching a movie, and in the morning the player is completely frozen, and the only way to get it back is to unplug it.

Then yesterday I did a sopranos minimarathon, and after close to four hours the player froze.

Is this a common issue expected to be fixed with an update, or do I have a bad player.

Also while I'm on the subject, I bought the player a couple of months ago, what is Oppo's return policy, could I expect a refund? If I could just get a full refund I may just do that and apply the cash to the Toshiba HD-DVD.

My Pioneer will accept 720p but it will not display it. It will upconvert it to 1080i. I paid I think $2500 for my set. It was more expensive than the others by far, but the Elite had the best internal deinterlacer, best aspect ratio (zoom) modes, best comb filter, etc. I have a laserdisc player so it was very important to me to have a TV that not only did a great job with DVD and HD material, but with analog sources like LD as well. The elite was made with analog sources in mind, hence it's great built in deinterlacing, comb filter, etc.

I'm very happy with my elite. It does a great job. I'm looking forward to getting an ISF calibration touch up soon to get the most out of it.

Gtaylor74 - I am trying to make a decision between 970 and 971 for my Pioneer Elite CRT HDVT (64"). Which one will give better picture quality for this Pioneer CRT HDTV?

I agree that the 971 has better picture quality. For me though, I could see the macroblocking and image retention issues on the Elite. It got to be too much for me, so I sold the 971. I now have the 970 and run it into an iscan HD+, then to the elite. The pic quality this way is about equal to the 971 but no macroblocking.

What year Elite is yours? Does it have DVI or HDMI inputs? If macroblocking doesn't bother you, try the 971. If it does, go with the 970.

Has anyone read the recent review article at HDTVexpert (http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/psuedo_hd.html) in which the 970 was compared to two other players costing more than two grand (see above) in video processing tests. Needless to say, the 970 did not fare too well against the other two. But it is interesting to see Oppo getting attention from enthusiasts and experts alike, without too many unkind words I might add.


Greetings,

First off this was not a comparison of the three upconverting DVD players. He compared the 970HD to two video processors/scalers. To me this was clearly going to put the Oppo at a disadvantage.

He claimed that he was not "ga ga" over it like some reviewers have been. I have not seen any reviewers who have gone ga ga over the Oppo. However most state that for $149.00 the Oppo is simply tough to beat.

Personally I use it strictly as a digital transport and send 480i HDMI signals to the video processor in my Anthem pre/pro. The signal is then deinterlaced and scaled to the native rez. of my front projector. He states that sending 480p or 720p signals upconverted from the Oppo to your display yielded good results. Well keeping in mind that this is a $149 universal player it is certainly a bargain.

I think he might have been better served to compare the Oppo to other upconverting players rather than two very capable stand alone video processors.

Regards,

Anyone else having any problems with the player freezing?

A few times I have fallen asleep watching a movie, and in the morning the player is completely frozen, and the only way to get it back is to unplug it.

Then yesterday I did a sopranos minimarathon, and after close to four hours the player froze.

Is this a common issue expected to be fixed with an update, or do I have a bad player.

Also while I'm on the subject, I bought the player a couple of months ago, what is Oppo's return policy, could I expect a refund? If I could just get a full refund I may just do that and apply the cash to the Toshiba HD-DVD.


Greetings,

I have not had any problems with the player freezing. I have not run it for four hours straight or fallen asleep in front of it though. Most places have a 30 day return policy but you could call Oppo. I suspect they are going to tell you you are out of luck.

Regards,

First off this was not a comparison of the three upconverting DVD players. He compared the 970HD to two video processors/scalers. To me this was clearly going to put the Oppo at a disadvantage.

I'm completely mystified by the intentions of this article. The 970HD is meant to be paired with a video processor, not compete against one. Hence its focus on 480i output over HDMI.

If he'd wanted to compare upconversion, he should have used the 971H. Oppo is very clear in its marketing about the distinction between these two players.

I'm completely mystified by the intentions of this article.

As am I. This review by a self-proclaimed "HD expert" is a good example of how, no matter how professional a web site looks, one can easily be misled by relying on unedited sources of information on the internet. Obviously, no one with any industry experience questioned the initial premise of this article before it was published.

/steve

I don't agree with your summary of the Audioholics article. (Underline in the following inserted by me.)



So in my understanding (and I could wrong on some details), oversampling is part of the reason that the reconstructed analog waveform with frequency content <= 20 kHz shows no measurable phase deviation anywhere in that frequency range. The oversampling is built into the operation of the finite impulse response (FIR) digital filter, that processes the digital signal before it gets to the DAC (we can think of this step as "preparing" the digital signal for the D-to-A conversion step). The signal processing by the FIR digital filter just before the DAC, and the Bessel or GIC active low-pass analog filter just after the DAC, work together to produce the phase-deviation-free, reconstructed analog waveform that is measured at the analog output of the player.

Opps. Apologies then. I didn't realise any such ovcersampling was to get his figures. Guess I'm confusing oversampling and upsampling and I'll have to read up on the difference.

Interesting or not, obviously you've misread it if that's what you gleaned. In fact, Banquer notes that one of the worst-performing CD players he's ever tested DIDN'T use oversampling (it dated from the early years of CD players) and did use an *analog* brickwall filter -- conditions which do not hold in players today (except in some ridiculously misguided and overpriced 'high-end' models):


Thanks for your lenghty post and patience. I see that I made some critical errors in my quick reading of your link.

I have already arranged to buy a used Philips 963 SA DVD/SACD player (my cheque is in the mail), so I guess I'll find out first hand if it plays the SACD layer any better than my Rotel RCD-02 plays the Redbook layer. I needed a new DVD player anyway and don't have a fancy TV display, so the cost isn't enormous and it's supposed to be a decent DVD player and gives my SACD support as well. I guess I was hoping for better sound from the high-res medium, even though I have no real complaints about CDs. I don't hear the harhness that people complain about. I guess I don't have audiophile ears (for which perhaps I should be thankful; mine are certainly cheaper to satisfy!)

Greetings,


As am I. This review by a self-proclaimed "HD expert" is a good example of how, no matter how professional a web site looks, one can easily be misled by relying on unedited sources of information on the internet. Obviously, no one with any industry experience questioned the initial premise of this article before it was published.

/steve

I'm completely mystified by the intentions of this article. The 970HD is meant to be paired with a video processor, not compete against one. Hence its focus on 480i output over HDMI.

Agreed on both counts.


Regards,

Anyone else having any problems with the player freezing?

A few times I have fallen asleep watching a movie, and in the morning the player is completely frozen, and the only way to get it back is to unplug it.

Then yesterday I did a sopranos minimarathon, and after close to four hours the player froze.

Is this a common issue expected to be fixed with an update, or do I have a bad player.

Also while I'm on the subject, I bought the player a couple of months ago, what is Oppo's return policy, could I expect a refund? If I could just get a full refund I may just do that and apply the cash to the Toshiba HD-DVD.

What firmware are you using? I had this problem occur randomly. I was using one of the beta firmwares at the time. Switched back to the original - something like 0526 - and have not seen the problem again. Not sure if it is truly gone with the original firmware.

If you contact Oppo, I'm sure they will offer to have you ship the player back to them for inspection/repair.

Greetings,






Agreed on both counts.


Regards,


Another vote here...

I need help. I just bought a Phillips 42 inch Plasma from Costco and I bought and Oppo 970. I connected the Oppo 970 to the Plasma via the HDMI cable that came with it. When I change the Source on the Plasma to HDMI 1, I see the DVD playing for 4 seconds and the screen turns to snow. I can switch to another source and then back to HDMI 1 and the same thing happens every time.

What should I do? Is it a faulty player or have I missed something simple?

Thanks

Notice that the yahoo file was not "613mod" anymore but "613_respin3x" any difference??? with the 2???

I agree that the 971 has better picture quality. For me though, I could see the macroblocking and image retention issues on the Elite. It got to be too much for me, so I sold the 971. I now have the 970 and run it into an iscan HD+, then to the elite. The pic quality this way is about equal to the 971 but no macroblocking.

What year Elite is yours? Does it have DVI or HDMI inputs? If macroblocking doesn't bother you, try the 971. If it does, go with the 970.


My Elite CRT HDTV has HDMI inputs. Does HDMI or DVI inputs has anything to do with Microblocking?

I heard the 971 has the least Microblocking among all Faraduji-based DVD, and it can be tweaked to reduce Microblocking. I understand the replacement of 971 will have HDMI inputs, maybe Microblocking will be reduced?

My Elite CRT HDTV has HDMI inputs. Does HDMI or DVI inputs has anything to do with Microblocking?

I heard the 971 has the least Microblocking among all Faraduji-based DVD, and it can be tweaked to reduce Microblocking. I understand the replacement of 971 will have HDMI inputs, maybe Microblocking will be reduced?


Not if it uses the same faroudja chip. You're eyes may be different than mine. I still saw macroblocking on mine. Turning the TrueLife setting off reduced it a bit, but then you see the image retention issue. All you can do is try it and see if you have issues with it or not.

A quick question... How sturdy is the 970 unit? I ask, because I'm in the process of putting together my home theatre and I've got a bit of a space problem. I'd like to put my HD STB on top of the Oppo, but I don't know if the Oppo can take the weight. The STB is the Motorola 6412 and it weighs in at 11.5 lbs. I'd put the Oppo on top, but the STB vents up and to the sides, so my only other option is to put it below.

I'd just test it out myself, but I only have the STB at the moment. I've not yet picked up the Oppo unit.

Thoughts?

A quick question... How sturdy is the 970 unit? I ask, because I'm in the process of putting together my home theatre and I've got a bit of a space problem. I'd like to put my HD STB on top of the Oppo, but I don't know if the Oppo can take the weight. The STB is the Motorola 6412 and it weighs in at 11.5 lbs. I'd put the Oppo on top, but the STB vents up and to the sides, so my only other option is to put it below.

I'd just test it out myself, but I only have the STB at the moment. I've not yet picked up the Oppo unit.

Thoughts?
I put my SA8300 STB on top of the Oppo (971) ....my thought is Heat rises and I would rather bake my rented STB than my own DVD player... just MHO...have not had any problems with either...

I put my SA8300 STB on top of the Oppo (971) ....my thought is Heat rises and I would rather bake my rented STB than my own DVD player... just MHO...have not had any problems with either...

bvader, that's exactly the feedback I needed. Thanks kindly.

I need help. I just bought a Phillips 42 inch Plasma from Costco and I bought and Oppo 970. I connected the Oppo 970 to the Plasma via the HDMI cable that came with it. When I change the Source on the Plasma to HDMI 1, I see the DVD playing for 4 seconds and the screen turns to snow. I can switch to another source and then back to HDMI 1 and the same thing happens every time.

What should I do? Is it a faulty player or have I missed something simple?

Thanks

This can be a handshake error that can be caused by hot swapping (changing to a source that is not on yet, or is fully operational, depending on your television).

Try changing your input to HDMI 1 then turn on your DVD player. Try also turning on the DVD player, switching to HDMI 1, turning on the display, then turning it back on to note any difference.

If you still get snow, then disconnect the power from the back of the DV-970HD when the snow appears. Re-apply power and try again. Additionally, try downloading and installing the 3A-0828 Firmware (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd-firmware-3a-0828.html).

I think it would be nice to have option to have grey side bars for widescreen/auto mode. Any possibility such an option can be considered for future firmware updates?

Is the 4:3 to 16:9 stretch of the 970 a linear stretch, or does it stretch the edges more and leave the center alone?

Is the 4:3 to 16:9 stretch of the 970 a linear stretch, or does it stretch the edges more and leave the center alone?

Linear.

I can't seem to find a place for this question, so maybe someone here can help...

I've read that upconverting HD units can have this issue, and I read a previous post of someone who had that problem but fixed it using the "Russian solution" of turning it off and then back on and it works.

I'll be using a Samsung HD CRT 1080i upconverting, model 3082.

I'll be running a Standard Def Sony DVD Player via Monster THX Component cable. It has a built in DD Decoder so I run 5.1 analog cables to my analog 5.1 receiver. I don't believe to the best of my knowledge that my player has an audio delay feature.

Can i expect synch issues, and if so will the above solution fix it?

If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Additionally, if I'm forced to, will running it via a composite video cable eliminate any out-of-synch issues if they occur? I'd hate to do that, but using a lower quality cable is far less annoying than a sync issue.

Hi all,

I tried to program my 970, but it does not have discrete codes for ON and OFF for the MX-3000.

Any ideas??

You will have to program it yourself using the following HEX:

Power:
0000 006D 0026 0000 0155 00AD 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016
0041 0016 0600 0155 0056 0016 0E55 0155 0056 0016 00AD

On :
0000 006D 0022 0002 0157 00AC 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0689 0157 0056 0015 0E94

Off :
0000 006D 0022 0002 0157 00AC 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0689 0157 0056 0015 0E94

Due to the MB issues I'm thinking of going with the 970H however I have a 62'' DLP. People recommend the 971H for screens larger than 50'', has anyone used the 970H with a 60''+ screen without any issue?

Thanks, but i don't think my MX-3000 remote does HEX codes.

I You will have to program it yourself using the following HEX:

Power:
0000 006D 0026 0000 0155 00AD 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016
0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016
0041 0016 0600 0155 0056 0016 0E55 0155 0056 0016 00AD

On :
0000 006D 0022 0002 0157 00AC 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0689 0157 0056 0015 0E94

Off :
0000 006D 0022 0002 0157 00AC 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015
0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015
0041 0015 0689 0157 0056 0015 0E94

Due to the MB issues I'm thinking of going with the 970H however I have a 62'' DLP. People recommend the 971H for screens larger than 50'', has anyone used the 970H with a 60''+ screen without any issue?

The DV-970HD will look great on a large display, but to OPPO, due to it being the lesser in quality to the OPDV971H, they recommend the OPDV971H be used for large screen displays, as you will more likely see the benefits of a great de-interlacer and scaling chipset.

If one is really only using the 970 for Pal DVD's what is the major problem it not having 3.2 film pull down?

If you are using a Panasonic 900 projector doesnt that correct it? When I use it with my projector I dont see any differance to when I use the OPDV971H?

What is the horrible thing its ment to show not having it?

Do Plasma TV's not have 3.2 pull down? :confused:

For PAL the important thing is to have Film 2:2 Cadence support. Without it, you will see major jagged edges and interlacing errors.

Neuromancer,

Thanks for posting the discrete on/off codes. I was just wondering this weekend of those even existed. It's pretty annoying to turn on the Oppo, load a DVD, and then activate the 'Play DVD' event on the remote to get things started -- and then have it turn off the DVD player when it turns on all of the other system components.

Unfortunately, I was forced to switch from a Pronto remote system to a Harmony 688 a while back for durability reasons, i.e. the kids kept breaking the screen on the Pronto. Could you please prod Oppo into contacting the Harmony team at Logitech so these will make it into their master database?

Or am I overlooking some obscure corner of the Harmony web UI which enables you to directly input hex codes like I used to do with ProntoEdit?

Audioholics didn't give the 970HD a very good PQ review... dissapointing. Still looking for that ultimate picture quality HDMI DVD player under $200...

Harmony should have some remote commands for the OPDV971H and DV-970HD models. However, I can't remember where I found them.

OK, having read through most of this thread, I'm a tad confused. I'm buying my 32" LCD HDTV this week and want a DVD player with the best PQ I can find for under $250. From what it sounds like, I should go with the 971H and use a DVI-HDMI cable instead of buying the 970HD? Is this correct? Which will give me a better "jaw dropping" picture? Thanks so much.

Due to the MB issues I'm thinking of going with the 970H however I have a 62'' DLP. People recommend the 971H for screens larger than 50'', has anyone used the 970H with a 60''+ screen without any issue?
using one with a 65" mits crtrp and it looks good I bought it mainly for pal playback/divx and dvd-a though I use my rp82 for regular dvds

Audioholics didn't give the 970HD a very good PQ review... dissapointing. Still looking for that ultimate picture quality HDMI DVD player under $200...
It looks like they used the HQV demo disc which, surprise surprise, only HQV powered players do well on. I would pay more attention to the Secrets review myself. The cadence testing is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I bet I don't have a single DVD with those cadences on it. The NR is another iffy one. NR is nice, but I would think the goal is to accurately reproduce what's on the disc.

I think I'm going to go with the 971H, it comes with a DVI-HDMI cable, and it looks like I'll get the best PQ with that one. Thanks.

I have a question regarding hdmi audio and getting 5.1 to my receiver.

I am using the 970hd with the latest beta firmware. Its hooked up to a panasonic 50px60u through hdmi (port 2 to be more specific). The tv optical out is hooked up to a panasonic XR55.

I cannot get 5.1 to my receiver. I've tried several recommended settings (from the oppo page) for the audio setup on the 970hd. Does anybody have a similar setup working? If so, what are the audio settings you are using.

I'm sure this will work if I turn hdmi-audio off and hookup the 970hd optical out directly to the amp. But is it possible to do this by just using the hdmi-audio going through the plasma and out to the receiver?

Any help is appreciated.

I have a question regarding hdmi audio and getting 5.1 to my receiver.

I am using the 970hd with the latest beta firmware. Its hooked up to a panasonic 50px60u through hdmi (port 2 to be more specific). The tv optical out is hooked up to a panasonic XR55.

I cannot get 5.1 to my receiver. I've tried several recommended settings (from the oppo page) for the audio setup on the 970hd. Does anybody have a similar setup working? If so, what are the audio settings you are using.

I'm sure this will work if I turn hdmi-audio off and hookup the 970hd optical out directly to the amp. But is it possible to do this by just using the hdmi-audio going through the plasma and out to the receiver?

Any help is appreciated.

I am running a very similar setting as you describe (including the HDMI-2 on a Panny 50px600u) to my HK 7200 AVR. It might be in the settings on your receiver, in terms of the input identifications/selection. Took me a while to get it to function. Not sure though if yourXR55 operates along similar lines where the input settings from the Plasma have to be specified in the AVR using an on screen display to ensure that the right linkages are there.

Hope that this helps you a little to track down the culpret, as the sound if fabulous.

..Mark

He has the audio going first to the TV (the 50PX60U) then to the AVR. So he's feeding the TV HDMI audio then trying to get it back out via optical to the AVR. Unless the TV can do audio 'passthrough' with HDMI-->optical transcoding, *and* retain the surround information, this won't work. If it can, there must be a setting in there somewhere in the *50PX60U*'s setup menu, to activate it. Make sure TV passthrough output is 'bitstream' (or 'Raw') not PCM. You would of course also want the Oppo to be set to pass a multichannel HDMI audio signal (bitstream, not PCM), as per instructions (the only other thing to experiment with in the Oppo would be HDMI output format -- try 720p rather than 480 -- this makes a difference for DVD-Audio and SACD sources but I doubt it matters for the DD or DTS streams of DVD-video)

The normal 'HDMI -only' solution would be to run the HDMI into a AVR first, letting the AVR grab the audio and output it as 5.1, while letting the video pass through to the TV via a second HDMI cable. But the SA-XR55 has no HDMI inputs or outputs. -

He has the audio going first to the TV (the 50PX60U) then to the AVR. So he's feeding the TV HDMI audio then trying to get it back out via optical to the AVR. Unless the TV can do audio 'passthrough' with HDMI-->optical transcoding, *and* retain the surround information, this won't work. If it can, there must be a setting in there somewhere in the *50PX60U*'s setup menu, to activate it. You would of course also want the Oppo to be set to pass a multichannel HDMI audio signal, as per instructions (the only other thing to experiment with in the Oppo would be HDMI output format -- try 720p rather than 480 -- this makes a difference for DVD-Audio and SACD sources but I doubt it matters for DVD-video)

The normal solution would be to run the HDMI into a AVR first, letting the AVR grab the audio and output it as 5.1, while letting the video pass through to the TV via a second HDMI cable. But the SA-XR55 has no HDMI inputs or outputs. -


The answer/solution lies in my forgetting to list that I also have a direct optical coax going from the Oppo to the AVR otical input (optical inputs from both the Plasma and Oppo going into the AVR) so I could have music go direct through the avr.

After the posting, I went back and rechecked my set up. Sorry for the ommission before.
..Mark

So he's feeding the TV HDMI audio then trying to get it back out via optical to the AVR. Unless the TV can do audio 'passthrough' with HDMI-->optical transcoding, *and* retain the surround information, this won't work. If it can, there must be a setting in there somewhere in the *50PX60U*'s setup menu, to activate it. Make sure TV passthrough output is 'bitstream' (or 'Raw') not PCM. -


This is exactly what I wanted. I glanced over the tv hdmi audio settings but was focusing on the Oppo instead.
I had an xbox360 hooked up directly to the Panny, passing the audio to the receiver using an optical out from the TV. This gave me 5.1 without a problem. I assumed the problem was with the dvd player. I forgot the xbox360 was hooked up through component inputs, not hdmi. Otherwise i would've focused on the TV.

For some reason I doubt the TV can do this audio passthrough with HDMI, but I will look through the menus tonight.

Thanks krapapple and adm!

As adm notes, another option will be to pass the audio directly from the Oppo to the
AVR via optical or coaxial digital. That may require turning HDMI *audio* OFF in the Oppo, as in some players HDMI audio is given priority over other digital outputs (i.e., no output from optical or coax digital). You also want to set the Oppo's 'SPDIF Output' menu to Raw (not PCM) so that the optical/coax digital outputs passes bitstream natively to your AVR.

It looks like they used the HQV demo disc which, surprise surprise, only HQV powered players do well on...I must admit I'm skeptical about the HQV disc tests myself. I mean, while my old Sony DVP-S7000 fails most of those tests quite miserably, when playing-back my film-based DVDs it looks positively film-like and is very, very pleasing to me, especially with blacks which are so important.

I'm only considering replacing it (in favor of the Oppo in Component-out) cuz of a lack of DTS audio-out and some operational quirks (hey, it is after all Gen. 1!).

Cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/Oppo_DV_970HD/4505-9141_7-32065061.html?tag=pdtl-list) posted a review of the DV-970HD. Overall, it received a 7.7 out of 10, putting it below the Xbox 360 and Denon 2930Ci, and oddly putting it on the same level as the PlayStation Two.

I must admit I'm skeptical about the HQV disc tests myself.

HQV is a great test tool for testing your player for cadence support which is not Film 3:2 or 2:2 based. If you are someone who watches television shows, music videos, cartoons and animations, it is paradigm that your DVD player support some of the off cadences, such as 2:3:3:2.

My experience was similar. I've been quite happy with the 480i mode, allowing my Pio PRO-1130HD do the scaling. I can't imagine it looking any better. My experience might not be typical, though, since I moved from a 35" Sony CRT and an older DVD player to the Pioneer plasma and the Oppo 970 all in one fell swoop, so I'm probably still weak-kneed from excitement!

I am in a similar situation as vivo512. I purchased a 970HD as a budget DVD player to hold me over until the whole HD-DVD/Blu-Ray thing is decided. I am going to pair it with my Pioneer 5070 and was wondering which one will scale better? Any Pioneer 5070 owners out there that can share their thoughts?

Thanks in advance...

Just a note about a peculiarity of Oppo DVD-A/SACD playback via HDMI --

My AVR (Pioneer 74txvi) has a front panel graphic indicator showing which channels are active in the input signal -- one 'box' each for each channel. So for a 4.0 surround discs (I have a couple of these) only four boxes will show, for 5.1 all six will show, etc. I have another 'universal player' connected to the AVR via ilink, and the source channel info displays accurately as above. But via HDMI with the oppo, *all* surround DVD-A (and SACD, which is converted to PCM in the Oppo) sources that I tried show as '5.1' (six boxes), even when they weren't. Fortunately, the 'extra' channels are silent -- e.g., there's no sound coming from the center channel when I play a 4.0 track, even though the AVR display shows an active center channel.

It makes me wonder exactly what is involved in sending audio via HDMI -- is the phantom activation of all channels by default, something to do with the Oppo particularly, or is it an HDMI 1.1 issue generally, or to do with high rez stuff? Btw, I haven't checked what happens to the graphic with DD, DTS or stereo sources via HDMI.

Cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/Oppo_DV_970HD/4505-9141_7-32065061.html?tag=pdtl-list) posted a review of the DV-970HD. Overall, it received a 7.7 out of 10, putting it below the Xbox 360 and Denon 2930Ci, and oddly putting it on the same level as the PlayStation Two.

I was surprised they thought the 2930 and 970 were similar as far as picture quality. My experience with both players on my 57" display showed a pretty good improvement with the 2930.

EDIT: The more I think about it, most of my comparisons between these players were over 480p component and not upscaled, so in all honesty, I can't really say how they compared at say, 1080i HDMI.

It makes me wonder exactly what is involved in sending audio via HDMI -- is the phantom activation of all channels by default, something to do with the Oppo particularly, or is it an HDMI 1.1 issue generally, or to do with high rez stuff? Btw, I haven't checked what happens to the graphic with DD, DTS or stereo sources via HDMI.
HDMI has either 8 channels or 2. The spec doesn't define anything in between, so that might explain what you're seeing.

DavidHir,

It is also Cnet, after all. They are not the most objective in their testing.

I have a question regarding hdmi audio and getting 5.1 to my receiver.

I am using the 970hd with the latest beta firmware. Its hooked up to a panasonic 50px60u through hdmi (port 2 to be more specific). The tv optical out is hooked up to a panasonic XR55.

I cannot get 5.1 to my receiver. I've tried several recommended settings (from the oppo page) for the audio setup on the 970hd. Does anybody have a similar setup working? If so, what are the audio settings you are using.

I'm sure this will work if I turn hdmi-audio off and hookup the 970hd optical out directly to the amp. But is it possible to do this by just using the hdmi-audio going through the plasma and out to the receiver?

Any help is appreciated.

I have a Panasonic 42px50u and know for a fact that it does not pass 5.1 surround from an HDMI connection to its optical out. I'm pretty sure if you read your manual, you'll see the same thing I read in mine.

Cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/Oppo_DV_970HD/4505-9141_7-32065061.html?tag=pdtl-list) posted a review of the DV-970HD. Overall, it received a 7.7 out of 10, putting it below the Xbox 360 and Denon 2930Ci, and oddly putting it on the same level as the PlayStation Two.
The relatively low score was due to its low-end exterior (scored 6). Otherwise, they gave it 9 and 8 for feature and performance, respectively. The concept of "averaging" things in different dimensions does not make sense sometimes. :)

Just a note about a peculiarity of Oppo DVD-A/SACD playback via HDMI --

My AVR (Pioneer 74txvi) has a front panel graphic indicator showing which channels are active in the input signal -- one 'box' each for each channel. So for a 4.0 surround discs (I have a couple of these) only four boxes will show, for 5.1 all six will show, etc. I have another 'universal player' connected to the AVR via ilink, and the source channel info displays accurately as above. But via HDMI with the oppo, *all* surround DVD-A (and SACD, which is converted to PCM in the Oppo) sources that I tried show as '5.1' (six boxes), even when they weren't. Fortunately, the 'extra' channels are silent -- e.g., there's no sound coming from the center channel when I play a 4.0 track, even though the AVR display shows an active center channel.

It makes me wonder exactly what is involved in sending audio via HDMI -- is the phantom activation of all channels by default, something to do with the Oppo particularly, or is it an HDMI 1.1 issue generally, or to do with high rez stuff? Btw, I haven't checked what happens to the graphic with DD, DTS or stereo sources via HDMI.

Interesting find. As far as I know, SACD and DVD-A signals from the Oppo via HDMI always go through its internal DSP. The new firmware automatically changes the setting from "raw" to "multichannel" when SACD or DVD-A is played. According to Audioholics' update on the 970 review, "multichannel" setting involves DSP circuit no matter what format is played. This means if you play DD, DTS, and even stereo CD at the "multichannel" setting, the 970 will handle them by decoding or processing through DSP. I suspect at this setting HDMI PCM signals are always 5.1, whether actual sound exists for certain channels or not. Of course, at the "raw" setting, DD, DTS, stereo via HDMI will be bitstream or original PCM.

Cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/Oppo_DV_970HD/4505-9141_7-32065061.html?tag=pdtl-list) posted a review of the DV-970HD. Overall, it received a 7.7 out of 10, putting it below the Xbox 360 and Denon 2930Ci, and oddly putting it on the same level as the PlayStation Two.

That's funny. the DV-970HD is far better than my Xbox 360 and PlayStation 2 at playing DVDs without question. Image quality is much better too of course.

This is exactly what I wanted. I glanced over the tv hdmi audio settings but was focusing on the Oppo instead.
I had an xbox360 hooked up directly to the Panny, passing the audio to the receiver using an optical out from the TV. This gave me 5.1 without a problem. I assumed the problem was with the dvd player. I forgot the xbox360 was hooked up through component inputs, not hdmi. Otherwise i would've focused on the TV.

For some reason I doubt the TV can do this audio passthrough with HDMI, but I will look through the menus tonight.

Thanks krapapple and adm!

If the HDTV is like mine and most sets out right now, it will pass HDMI audio out via the optical output but only in 2 channels. My set only outputs 5.1 through the optical output from the OTA/QAM tuners only. Dashed my plans of connecting my sat. receiver and dvd to the HDTV via HDMI and only having an opcital link to the A/V receiver. Eventually ended up having to connect the sat. receiver and dvd seperately to the A/V receiver optically because I got tired of the 2-channel HDMI stereo sound.

It makes me wonder exactly what is involved in sending audio via HDMI -- is the phantom activation of all channels by default, something to do with the Oppo particularly, or is it an HDMI 1.1 issue generally, or to do with high rez stuff? Btw, I haven't checked what happens to the graphic with DD, DTS or stereo sources via HDMI.
Just curious about this. Audioholics reported sound degradation of CD over HDMI when the setting is "multichannel" versus "raw." Do you experience the same degradation of CD sound at this setting?

This wouldn't tend to happen now because with the new firmware, the Oppo has an 'Auto' setting for HDMI Audio, which automatically sends CD, DD and DTS as whatever the 'Digital Output' setting is (meaning, raw bitstream given that I have Digital Output set to 'raw'), while switching to 'Multichannell ' for hi-rez sources.

It's not clear to me why Audioholics got their results with the old firmware, because they didn't describe what the various DSP parameters in their player where set to. Even with HDMI set to "Multichannel' for all sources, I would expect that *if* downmix was off, and the speakers were all set to LARGE, and channel trim/gain were at 0, and channel delays were equal, then the HDMI output should sound essentially the same as its analog output.
So I would guess those were NOT the settings Audioholics was using.


But I'll check it out myself.

This wouldn't tend to happen now because with the new firmware, the Oppo has an 'Auto' setting for HDMI Audio, which automatically sends CD, DD and DTS as whatever the 'Digital Output' setting is (meaning, raw bitstream given that I have Digital Output set to 'raw'), while switching to 'Multichannell ' for hi-rez sources.

It's not clear to me why Audioholics got their results with the old firmware, because they didn't describe what the various DSP parameters in their player where set to. Even with HDMI set to "Multichannel' for all sources, I would expect that *if* downmix was off, and the speakers were all set to LARGE, and channel trim/gain were at 0, and channel delays were equal, then the HDMI output should sound essentially the same as its analog output.
So I would guess those were NOT the settings Audioholics was using.


But I'll check it out myself.
That was my guess, too. But another possiblity is that even if they set the parameters correctly, there might be some unavoidable digital processes that cannot be turned "off" at "Multichannel" setting, which might cause the reported sound degradation.

For PAL the important thing is to have Film 2:2 Cadence support. Without it, you will see major jagged edges and interlacing errors.

I've had my 970 for 3 weeks and in that time, watched about 3 PAL movies. IMO the picture looked great. I couldn't tell the difference between those and the NTSC movies that I watched. Maybe I wasn't looking closely enough. I'm using 480i through component to my Infocus 4805 onto a 76" screen. But, if all of my movies were PAL, then maybe I would have gotten the 971.

That was my guess, too. But another possiblity is that even if they set the parameters correctly, there might be some unavoidable digital processes that cannot be turned "off" at "Multichannel" setting, which might cause the reported sound degradation.


I cna't think of what such unavoidable processes might be, that would affect the sound so grossly as reported, unless 'Multichannel' automatically adds something like DPLII to digital CD output (or perhaps it was to do with the 'SPDIF Out'[now called 'Digital out'] setting not being set to 'raw' )

Still haven't gotten around to checking...but will do so this weekend.

Ok call me stupid (I am giving permission) but I cannot get my 970 to output higher than 480p. I have had it for one day and went through all the settings menus and cannot find anything that helps. I have a Syntax Olivia 537H which will take up to 1080i, and I get this on ota broadcasts (HD of course) but when I use the HDMI hook-uip from the 970 to the LCD (which also has HDMI) I only get 480p. Is there a setting I am missing on the DVD player which would let me upconvert it higher?

I have tried several DVD's and get the same result.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ok call me stupid (I am giving permission) but I cannot get my 970 to output higher than 480p. I have had it for one day and went through all the settings menus and cannot find anything that helps. I have a Syntax Olivia 537H which will take up to 1080i, and I get this on ota broadcasts (HD of course) but when I use the HDMI hook-uip from the 970 to the LCD (which also has HDMI) I only get 480p. Is there a setting I am missing on the DVD player which would let me upconvert it higher?

I have tried several DVD's and get the same result.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Greetings,

Are you sure the HDMI input on the Olevia has HDCP encryption? I went to their website and there is no indication that it is.

Here is a link to their site and the 537H Olevia 537H (http://www.olevia.com/jsp/products/features_537h.jsp?pid=537h)

Obviously I would think that the set IS HDCP compliant however I just wanted to throw that out there. I assume that you have gone through all of the possible setup options that would cause this.

Regards,

Just curious about this. Audioholics reported sound degradation of CD over HDMI when the setting is "multichannel" versus "raw." Do you experience the same degradation of CD sound at this setting?

Audioholics already made correction to the review. They were using the default settings of the player, which is optimized for compatibility rather than performance. This is just like using a TV with factory settings - you won't get the best picture without calibration.

Ok call me stupid (I am giving permission) but I cannot get my 970 to output higher than 480p. I have had it for one day and went through all the settings menus and cannot find anything that helps. I have a Syntax Olivia 537H which will take up to 1080i, and I get this on ota broadcasts (HD of course) but when I use the HDMI hook-uip from the 970 to the LCD (which also has HDMI) I only get 480p. Is there a setting I am missing on the DVD player which would let me upconvert it higher?

I have tried several DVD's and get the same result.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Press the HDMI button on the remote and it will cycle through the resolution settings.

-- Martin

PS You're not stupid. I had even done this before and tried to remember yesterday and it took me 15 minutes to find it again. :confused:

Stop disc playback or press Eject.

Press the HDMI button. Press it again to change your resolution.

Thank you for all your help. Will get right on it when I get home.

I am pretty sure that Syntax Olevia 537H supports HDMI as it should, but that is a good point.

I’m having a problem since I did the latest firmware upgrade to the 970 a week ago.

It used to play all Pal discs when set to auto. Now only some play and I have to go into the Oppo menu and change to Pal to get the disc to play.
Do you know what might be wrong?

I want to leave the setting on auto as I have half Pal & half NTSC discs.

Thanks in advance :rolleyes:

Try re-affirming the firmware and ensure that the unit is still set to "Auto".

Audioholics already made correction to the review. They were using the default settings of the player, which is optimized for compatibility rather than performance. This is just like using a TV with factory settings - you won't get the best picture without calibration.

Right, but they didn't say what those default settings were, other than to suggest (IIRC) that downmix was on...which I woiuld think wouldn't make a difference for *CD* sources.

I suppose I could do my comparison, then reset the oppo to 'default;' settings and see if there's a difference.

I cna't think of what such unavoidable processes might be, that would affect the sound so grossly as reported, unless 'Multichannel' automatically adds something like DPLII to digital CD output (or perhaps it was to do with the 'SPDIF Out'[now called 'Digital out'] setting not being set to 'raw' )

Still haven't gotten around to checking...but will do so this weekend.
At the "Multichannel" HDMI setting, the 970 engages digital master volume control (in addition to channel trim for 5.1 ch) so that it can adjust volume digitally before sending PCM over HDMI. This process, if poorly designed, might cause some alteration to PCM signal. And it seems that there is no obvious 'gain 0' option (i.e., to guarantee no alteration from the original, like 0 setting for channel trim) for this control. Just a thought.

I read somewhere in one of these threads that someone had either spoken too or emailed too oppo and found out that the current hardware 970 and 971 is 1080p capable but diabled or untested and they are working on it. With the possiability of a firmware release to enable it sometime in q1 of 07 I think.

Anyone know any more info about this???

Press the HDMI button on the remote and it will cycle through the resolution settings.

-- Martin

PS You're not stupid. I had even done this before and tried to remember yesterday and it took me 15 minutes to find it again. :confused:


I followed the dirrections that some of you gave and I am enjoying sweet 1080i on my DVD's.

Anyone want to comment whether 720p or 1080i is better in regards to viewing DVD's?

Thanks again for your help.

I read somewhere in one of these threads that someone had either spoken too or emailed too oppo and found out that the current hardware 970 and 971 is 1080p capable but diabled or untested and they are working on it. With the possiability of a firmware release to enable it sometime in q1 of 07 I think.

Anyone know any more info about this???

The OPDV971H has the capability to technically do 1080p (check the whitepapers for the FLI2310) but the OPDV971H was not designed around it. Meaning, there have been no measures to ensure proper power handling, heat disipation, and forth occurs inside of the DVD unit. So, enabling 1080p would be like overclocking the chipset, which can dramatically decrease the life of the DVD player.

I have the Samsung 6188W and Oppo 970. A week from today I am getting a Lumagen processor and ISF calibration. I will use the 480i from the Oppo to feed straight into the Lumagen so it can do all the scaling etc. The Oppo won't do any upconverting. This is my strategy to get the BEST PQ possible from the SD DVD's and SD TV through the Sammy. I'm hoping the Lumagen helps the HD too.

Any flaws to or suggested improvements to this "strategery"? I am hoping that the new VP-50 processor isn't such a significant upgrade over the Lumagen that it whacks this Oppo/Lumagen combo. Thank you, thank you very much.

FYI: I just got a second 970 and the firmware shows 3A-0903

I have two players on my system: the oppo 970hd and the sony rdr hx1000. The sony is actually very good on playback also.
The setup is:
1. oppo (576i@hdmi) => (dvi) iscan hd+ (dvi) => (dvi) philips plasma 50pf9966
2. sony (s-video) => iscan hd+ => philips

Besides the regular picture equalizer options -- contrast, bright, color/saturation and hue -- present on both units (set to 0 on both), the following are available:
oppo:
sharpness off/soft/sharp (set to off)
gamma off/low/medium/high (set to off)

sony:
luminance noise reduction 0/1/2/3 (set to 2)
crominance NR 0/1/2/3 (set to 2)
block NR 0/1/2/3 (set to 1)
digital video enhancement (the same as oppo sharpness) 0/1/2/3 (set to 0)

From my experience so far watching DVDs, I've found the sony actually performs better for the most cases than the oppo (with the above setup). The idea I get is that the video processing made by sony actually improve the image by removing some grain and delivering a clean picture for bad dvd transfers. On the other hand, it seems like oppo delivers what is on the dvd disc just as is which is the best for a good dvd transfer, but produces a not so good picture for a not so good dvd transfer, and there's nothing that can be done on those cases.

I've taken some pictures, unfortunely only one got without the flash, having the others lost most of the contrast!! This is from the movie "deuce bigelow" which has not a great transfer (imho). The scene at the phone shows a somehow more detailed picture from oppo but substantial noiser background (which can't be seen at the photo although). On the jumping scene, the building lines are more jagged on the oppo and smoother on the sony.
oppo- on the phone (http://cgd.sdf-eu.org/ht/oppo1.jpg) versus sony- on the phone (http://cgd.sdf-eu.org/ht/sony1.jpg)
oppo- jump (http://cgd.sdf-eu.org/ht/oppo2.jpg) versus sony- jump (http://cgd.sdf-eu.org/ht/sony2.jpg)

If all the pictures had went without the flash the differences could be noted better. Perhaps on another try...

I have the Samsung 6188W and Oppo 970. A week from today I am getting a Lumagen processor and ISF calibration. I will use the 480i from the Oppo to feed straight into the Lumagen so it can do all the scaling etc. The Oppo won't do any upconverting. This is my strategy to get the BEST PQ possible from the SD DVD's and SD TV through the Sammy. I'm hoping the Lumagen helps the HD too.

Any flaws to or suggested improvements to this "strategery"? I am hoping that the new VP-50 processor isn't such a significant upgrade over the Lumagen that it whacks this Oppo/Lumagen combo. Thank you, thank you very much.

Which Lumagen?
There is a new Lum. with the Gennum chip called "Radiance" coming in Q1.
It sounds very impressive and possibly worth waiting for. ;)

I use:
Samsung HLP5685w
Oppo 970
DVDO VP30/ABT102
VP50 ordered

badsatan,

One thing you can't do is pause the picture, as this will reduce your resolution in half.

Secondly, does your Lumigen support Film 2:2 Cadence? If it does, ensure that you have enabled it for your input, otherwise you will enhance aliasing errors.

badsatan,

One thing you can't do is pause the picture, as this will reduce your resolution in half.

Secondly, does your Lumigen support Film 2:2 Cadence? If it does, ensure that you have enabled it for your input, otherwise you will enhance aliasing errors.

Does that half reduction happens when I pause the picture on the dvd, on the TV or regardless where I pause it? Didn't know that!

I don't have a lumagen, but a dvdo iscan hd+. It supports 2:2 cadence but there is no option to control this directly.There is a "Film mode" option, which has the values off/bias/auto and I think it's used to control the deinterlacer. Perhaps I can set it to bias (currently set to auto). I'll try a few more tests with this setting.

Which Lumagen?
There is a new Lum. with the Gennum chip called "Radiance" coming in Q1.
It sounds very impressive and possibly worth waiting for. ;)

I use:
Samsung HLP5685w
Oppo 970
DVDO VP30/ABT102
VP50 ordered

I ordered the Lumagen VisionHDQ I believe. Yes, I have heard of the new Radiance but don't know if it will be worth more cash and time. I see you have a VP50 on order. Nice.

At the "Multichannel" HDMI setting, the 970 engages digital master volume control (in addition to channel trim for 5.1 ch) so that it can adjust volume digitally before sending PCM over HDMI. This process, if poorly designed, might cause some alteration to PCM signal. And it seems that there is no obvious 'gain 0' option (i.e., to guarantee no alteration from the original, like 0 setting for channel trim) for this control. Just a thought.

I have a comment that may be helpful to DV-970HD owners who are trying to optimize the settings for sending audio (especially the high-res. DVD-A and SACD formats) over HDMI. (I have been watching this issue because I am considering getting the 970, or more likely a future Oppo model, becuase I am "slow on the trigger" ;) ).

There have been two firmware updates, "Batch 1A-0613" released June 13, 2006, and "Batch 3A-0828" released Aug. 28. (Even the fact that there have been two firmware updates isn't obvious, because the Oppo website only shows the original firmware release "1A-0526" and the latest updates, with no link to an archive of previous updates.) Both updates have features that improve the handling of multi-channel / high-res. audio over HDMI. However the improvements in the second update, 3A-0828, appear more fundamental - bringing the Oppo closer to a "digital transport" for high-res. audio.

What firmware update "1A-0613" does about audio:

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd-firmware-1a-0613.html
1. Improved HDMI Multi-Channel PCM Audio Compatibility

This version improves HDMI audio compatibility with some HDMI A/V receivers and audio processors. When the HDMI Audio setting on the DVD player is set the "Multi-Channel", the previous firmware version provides channel number information in the PCM audio stream header and set the "Refer to stream header" flag in the HDMI Infoframe. Some HDMI A/V receivers and audio processors are not able to correctly determine channel numbers based on those information. As a result only the left-front and left-right channels are played back. This version provides additional channel number information in the HDMI Infoframe so those A/V receivers and audio processors can play back all audio channels.

2. Automatic Selecting Multi-Channel PCM Audio for HDMI when Playing High Resolution Audio Content (DVD-Audio and SACD)

This version adds a feature to automatically select Multi-Channel PCM audio for HDMI output. If the HDMI Audio setting on the DVD player is set to "SPDIF" and the SPDIF setting is set to "Raw", the DVD player will automatically switch HDMI Audio to Multi-Channel when playing high resolution audio content (DVD-Audio and SACD). This feature is useful for users who would prefer to use their HDMI A/V receiver to decode Dolby Digital and DTS audio tracks for DVD-Video, yet still be able to play DVD-Audio and SACD without adjusting the player settings.

Note: If you use HDMI to connect audio to an HDMI A/V receiver or audio processor, it is recommended that you choose 720p or 1080i HDMI output resolution when playing high resolution audio content (DVD-Audio and SACD).

(snipped rest of the above paragraph, which has been discussed in other posts)

What firmware update "3A-0828" does about audio:

http://oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd-firmware-3a-0828.html
1. Improved HDMI Audio Compatibility and High Resolution Audio Output through HDMI

This version improves HDMI audio compatibility with TV, A/V receivers and audio processors. It also enables high resolution multi-channel audio output through the HDMI interface. The following setup menu settings are recommended:

When the HDMI output is connected to a TV directly, please use the factory default settings. The related settings are:

* Speaker Setup Page:
o Down-mix: Stereo
o Front Speaker: Large
o Subwoofer: Off
* Audio Setup Page:
o HDMI Audio: LPCM

With the above factory default settings the DVD player will down-mix center and surround audio channels to stereo and send in LPCM format to the TV. High resolution audio will be down-sampled to meet the TV's playback capability. The 2-channel LPCM format is most compatible with all types of TVs.

When the HDMI output is connected to an A/V receiver or audio processor with HDMI v1.1 or above specifications, please use the following settings:

* Speaker Setup Page:
o Down-mix: 5.1 CH
o Front Speaker: Large
o Center Speaker: Large
o Rear Speaker: Large
o Subwoofer: On
* Audio Setup Page:
o Digital Output: Raw
o HDMI Audio: Auto

With the above settings, the DVD player will send CD, Dolby Digital and DTS audio signals as raw bit streams to the receiver for decoding. For high resolution stereo or multi-channel audio contents such as DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD, the DVD player will send multi-channel PCM audio signals with the highest available sample frequency and bit numbers to the receiver. Depending on the original audio content, the format could be 44.1kHz - 192kHz, 2 - 6 channels. Setting all speakers to "Large" allows bass management to be handled by the receiver or audio processor.


A key point is that the new recommended settings for sending multi-channel audio to an HDMI 1.1 receiver or preprocessor (that can do bass management, speaker distance, level trims, and other surround processing in itself without help of the Oppo's DSP) are "Digital Output: Raw" and "HDMI Audio: Auto".

Final comment: the editor's correction to the Audioholics review of the DV-970HD ("Important Correction: Editor's Note on Oppo HDMI Output") mentions the features of firmware "1A-0613" as something coming soon "in a future firmware release", and doesn't mention at all the features of "3A-0828". (Not their fault, as a product with frequent firmware updates is a "moving target".)

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/OppoDV-970HDDVDp3.php

Hi Gentleman, I just purchased my 970 a few days ago and am just now going to try some SACD and DVD-A. I'll be using the 5.1 analog outs into the 5.1 analog ins of my EAD pre/pro. Does the 970 have digital bass management for the 5.1 outs? The features say "equalizer, channel trim and channel delay", but I see options for speaker sizes in the setup menu, but no selectable crossover. I don't think my EAD has bass managment on the analog pass through? All of my speakers are M&Ks so will be set to small in the 970. Am I ok or am I just stuck with sending a full range signal to all speakers?? Sorry as this is my first foray into DVD-A and SACD. Thanks for the insight.

FYI: I just got a second 970 and the firmware shows 3A-0903

Wesley thanks for the heads up!!!

I Did not see it on oppos 970HD support page so I poked around and wondered if they did not update the page. If they had it ready on 09/03/2006 it should have been there for a while, perhaps their web master is on holiday.

Anyways so here is a link for the new 3A-0903 firmware.

They call it a "Major Update" not a "Beta"

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd-firmware-3a-0903.html

But please use this at your own risk!!! Since I stumbled across this and its not "Offically" release by Oppo. If you mess up your player dont blame me!!!

Release Note

The following new features and improvements are included in this version:

1. Improved HDMI Audio Compatibility and High Resolution Audio Output through HDMI

This version improves HDMI audio compatibility with TV, A/V receivers and audio processors. It also enables high resolution multi-channel audio output through the HDMI interface. The following setup menu settings are recommended:

When the HDMI output is connected to a TV directly, please use the factory default settings. The related settings are:

Speaker Setup Page:
Down-mix: Stereo
Front Speaker: Large
Subwoofer: Off
Audio Setup Page:
HDMI Audio: LPCM
With the above factory default settings the DVD player will down-mix center and surround audio channels to stereo and send in LPCM format to the TV. High resolution audio will be down-sampled to meet the TV's playback capability. The 2-channel LPCM format is most compatible with all types of TVs.

When the HDMI output is connected to an A/V receiver or audio processor with HDMI v1.1 or above specifications, please use the following settings:

Speaker Setup Page:
Down-mix: 5.1 CH
Front Speaker: Large
Center Speaker: Large
Rear Speaker: Large
Subwoofer: On
Audio Setup Page:
Digital Output: Raw
HDMI Audio: Auto
With the above settings, the DVD player will send CD, Dolby Digital and DTS audio signals as raw bit streams to the receiver for decoding. For high resolution stereo or multi-channel audio contents such as DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD, the DVD player will send multi-channel PCM audio signals with the highest available sample frequency and bit numbers to the receiver. Depending on the original audio content, the format could be 44.1kHz - 192kHz, 2 - 6 channels. Setting all speakers to "Large" allows bass management to be handled by the receiver or audio processor.

Note: If you use HDMI to connect audio to an HDMI A/V receiver or audio processor, it is recommended that you choose 720p or 1080i HDMI output resolution when playing high resolution audio content (DVD-Audio and SACD). According to the HDMI specification, the bandwidth available for digital audio is proportional to the total bandwidth used by digital video. At 480i/480p/576i/576p resolution, the HDMI specification can only support 2 channels of audio with high sample rate (up to 192kHz), or 8 channels of audio with standard sample rate (up to 48kHz). Depending on the capability of your A/V receiver or audio processor, if you play high resolution audio content at 480i/480p/576i/576p resolution, you may encounter problems of incomplete audio channels or no audio/video output at all. Choosing a high HDMI output resolution such as 720p or 1080i allows enough bandwidth for all high sample rate audio channels.

2. Easier Track Skip for SACD and Digital Music Playback

When playing Super Audio CD or digital music files, the "Skip Prev" (|<<) and "Skip Next" (>>|) buttons on the remote control can be used to skip to the the previous or next track. This function enables the user to skip tracks without using the navigation menu on the video screen. When playback is stopped, these buttons can still be used to turn pages for the the on screen navigation menu, just like with the previous firmware version.

3. New Default Contrast Setting for Component Video Output (Same as 1A-0613 Beta Firmware)

The factory default contrast setting for component video output is slighted adjusted (tuned down to approximately -3 level of the previous firmware 1A-0526). This adjustment brings the default contrast for component video output to standard level and make it consistent with the HDMI output. The default contrast for the HDMI output is not affected. Please note that the brightness and contrast settings of your TV display also affect the final visual result. It is recommended that you calibrate the DVD player and the TV display together using a reference DVD such as The AVIA Guide to Home Theater or Digital Video Essentials.

4. Improved DVD-Audio Disc Compatibility

This version resolved compatibility issue when playing certain DVD-Audio discs, such as Remain in Light by TalkingHeads (UK version) and Greendale by Neil Young & Crazy Horse.

5. Improved DivX and Xvid IDX+SUB Subtitle Support

This version improved compatibility for IDX+SUB type of subtitle used by some DivX and Xvid files. It now properly displays subtitle for 2-CD split DivX and Xvid files using the IDX+SUB subtitles.

6. Enhanced Power-on Response Time

The response time it takes from power-on to video playing or tray ejection is reduced by 3-4 seconds. This firmware version also improved overall stability.

Anyways so here is a link for the new 3A-0903 firmware.

They call it a "Major Update" not a "Beta"

Thank you very much for sharing this. These are good information.

Wesley thanks for the heads up!!!

I Did not see it on oppos 970HD support page so I poked around and wondered if they did not update the page. If they had it ready on 09/03/2006 it should have been there for a while, perhaps their web master is on holiday.

Anyways so here is a link for the new 3A-0903 firmware.

They call it a "Major Update" not a "Beta"

Actually it's been up as a link on their 970HD support page since the end of August,
where the link iis indeed called 'Beta Test Version'. It's still there.

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_support.html

Actually it's been up as a link on their 970HD support page since the end of August,
where the link iis indeed called 'Beta Test Version'. It's still there.

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_support.html

I must be blind I do not see the 3A-0903 Firmware link on that page anywhere. All I see is 3 possible links to firmware.

1) 1A-0526 (Official release)
2) 1A-0613
3) 3A-0828 (Beta test version links to this firmware version)

Where's the 3A-0903 firmware link???

The 3A-0903 has been available for about 2 weeks now on the OPPO website. I would not recommend downloading it, as there is a reason why OPPO has not distributed it over their support website. One of the biggest reasons is that you will lose audio when switching between SACD and CD audio discs. There are some major crashes that can occur under some weird situations as well.

If OPPO does not release it to the general public, there is generally a major reason why they have not done so.

And since you guys are already fishing for firmware, thought I would give you this Major 3A-0916 Firmware (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd-firmware-3a-0916.html).

BTW, the difference between the final 3A-0903 (Major - in all shipped units) release and the 3A-0828 (Beta - not meant for release on DVD units leaving OPPOs office) are Improved DivX and Xvid IDX+SUB Subtitle Support and Enhanced Power Response.

I must be blind I do not see the 3A-0903 Firmware link on that page anywhere. All I see is 3 possible links to firmware.

1) 1A-0526 (Official release)
2) 1A-0613
3) 3A-0828 (Beta test version links to this firmware version)

Where's the 3A-0903 firmware link???


Sorry, I was blind, not you -- I thought you were referring to the 0828 release.

And since you guys are already fishing for firmware, thought I would give you this
Major 3A-0916 Firmware.

BTW, the difference between the final 3A-0903 (Major - in all shipped units) release and the 3A-0828 (Beta - not meant for release on DVD units leaving OPPOs office) are Improved DivX and Xvid IDX+SUB Subtitle Support and Enhanced Power Response.


do you know what the differences are between 3A-0916 and 3A-0903? The release notes are identical. thanks!

The 3A-0916 Firmware fixed an error with the 3A-0903 error as stated previously (SACD to CD playback will cause a loss of audio, and some problems associated to lockups).

However, I will note that 3A-0916 was to debute this afternoon, but may be held back because of an error with the TV Type signal being set to Auto and it not properly syncronizing (see: 70MM post).

I just recently purchased the 970. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced issues when playing mp3's from a USB drive at the same time as viewing a slide-show of pictures off of that USB drive. Often, songs pause for about one second and then resume. Almost makes me think the player is having a hard time keeping up with uncompressing the mp3's and pics. But I don't know.

Edit: I emailed Oppo and already got a response back. They said a possibility is because it is operating at USB 1.1 rather than 2.0 (poorer performance) and could have audio drop-outs. They also said they are looking to improve it but don't know when or if they'll have a solution available.

The 3A-0916 Firmware fixed an error with the 3A-0903 error as stated previously (SACD to CD playback will cause a loss of audio, and some problems associated to lockups).

However, I will note that 3A-0916 was to debute this afternoon, but may be held back because of an error with the TV Type signal being set to Auto and it not properly syncronizing (see: 70MM post).

Neuromancer,

I've been reading through all of the posts on this forum and always find your input to be very helpful to all users regardless of their experience level and would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

I ordered the 970HD this morning and received a confirmation this afternoon that it had shipped out this afternoon...WOW.

I plan to use this player as a replacement for a Samsung HD950 universal player that I gave to my son for his apartment. I recently purchased a Toshiba HD-A1 which I use as my primary dvd player for movies but it does not play SACD or DVD-Audio which the Samsung did. Thus I plan to use the 970HD primarily for it's audio purposes which I can either feed to my Yamaha HTR-6090 via HDMI or the RCA analog connections. I send the video ouput via HDMI to my Sony KDF-60XS. My speakers are all full range.

1. Which connection method and settings do you recommend for the best audio performance?

2. How would you compare the SACD and DVD-Audio performance of the 970HD to the HD950?

3. Is it your recommendation that I hold off on any firmware update until the 3A-0916 is released to the general public?

Thank You...

I would not recommend downloading it, as there is a reason why OPPO has not distributed it over their support website.

That's odd. When I contacted Oppo about my problems with the Talking Heads Brick and some SACDs, they directed me to the link for the new firmware and gave me instructions on how to install it on my player. It basically took care of the problem: some SACDs with tracks that flow into each, like stuff by the Moody Blues, still give it some problems and the Talking Heads "fix" is a bit awkward but the improved functionality, especially in multi-channel audio, makes it easily worth it.

YMMV

Roberto Carlo,

Depending on when you contacted them, they could have still been looking at releasing the firmware to their entire line of customers. I know for a fact that the 3A-0903 and 3A-0916 are still being investigated, and both have not been posted for live consumption.

Additionally, the SACD fix is already in their published 3A-0828 Firmware, which is "official" and live on their website.

AFAICT, since 3A-0828 there is no further change in SACD or DVD-A behaviour, right?

There has been no changes to SACD/DVD-Audio support since the 3A-0828 Firmware.

1. Which connection method and settings do you recommend for the best audio performance?

You will want to keep everything digital if you can. That means using HDMI for multi-channel audio. Set your DownMix to 5.1, speakers to Large, Subwoofer to on. (if your receiver has no bass management for multi-channel audio, then use Small for speakers). Set your HDMI to Auto. Leave S/PDIF Out as RAW.

2. How would you compare the SACD and DVD-Audio performance of the 970HD to the HD950?

I have not had that much experience with the Samsung HD-950 in regards to SACD, but I can say that it sounds flat compared to the OPDV971H.

3. Is it your recommendation that I hold off on any firmware update until the 3A-0916 is released to the general public?

The 3A-0916 Firmware should be fine, as it only effects PAL playback at this time.

From recent posts on the firmware updates, OPPO still hasn't addressed the issue of SACD tracks that blend together, such as DSOM or some of the Moody Blues SACD's. Am I correct in this assumption? Any timeframe as to when they'll get around to addressing this issue?

As stated previously, there have been no changes to the way SACD and DVD-Audio discs playback. SACD still has gapped playback, which is still be investigated.

There is no ETA on this firmware.

You will want to keep everything digital if you can. That means using HDMI for multi-channel audio. Set your DownMix to 5.1, speakers to Large, Subwoofer to on. (if your receiver has no bass management for multi-channel audio, then use Small for speakers). Set your HDMI to Auto. Leave S/PDIF Out as RAW.



I have not had that much experience with the Samsung HD-950 in regards to SACD, but I can say that it sounds flat compared to the OPDV971H.



The 3A-0916 Firmware should be fine, as it only effects PAL playback at this time.


Thanks Neuromancer!!! My player arrived while I was home for lunch...WOW that was fast, very nicely packaged. I cant wait for this work day to end ...

Maybe I missed it, but does the 970 pass DD and DTS on the HDMI output? If so, will it output them via HDMI and SPDIF at the same time?

Yes, the DV-970HD will pass DTS and DD through the HDMI output. It should produce S/PDIF and HDMI audio at the same time.

Updated on Oppos site

3A-0916 is officially released...

Updated on Oppos site

3A-0916 is officially released...

Thanks for the update. Just upgraded both of mine. So far so good.

Additionally, the SACD fix is already in their published 3A-0828 Firmware, which is "official" and live on their website.

Actually, I think that's the one that I downloaded and installed. Sorry for any confusion.

The new firmware has the same problem for me that I had with the beta. HDMI out to a Crystalio II, and optical out from the CII to a Yamaha YSP-1: with the audio settings set as suggested in the firmware release notes, my YSP-1 is not reporting Dolby Digital content being received, and I hear no sound or only background sounds. Again, interested if anyone else with a CII tries the new firmware. For me its back to the original firmware.

Guys whats the 4 digit remote code for a universal remote to learn?

There is no 4 Digit remote code for the DV-970HD product. You will need to teach each command to your remote control ony by one.

Thanks for the update. Just upgraded both of mine. So far so good.
Ditto here.

From the firmware release notes:
"This firmware version also improved overall stability"

So, does the new release fix the intermittant control lockup problem experienced with the previous official release?

There is no 4 Digit remote code for the DV-970HD product. You will need to teach each command to your remote control ony by one.

Thanks i guess i'll use the remote itself.

I just got the Harmony 659 and it's OPPO codes are in their data base. I now watch movies with one button control

I just got the Harmony 659 and it's OPPO codes are in their data base. I now watch movies with one button control

Are the codes usable for all the universal remote? If so may i know whats the code? Thanks

The Harmony codes would likely only work with Harmony remotes. There are a couple Oppo codes in the latest UEI database (UEI makes the Radio Shack/One For All JP1 remotes, along with many others) - try 1525 (the code for the black remotes provided with newer 971's) for the 970; code 1224 is for the white remotes provided with early 971's and shouldn't work for the 970.

Ok what did i do wrong- i do not burn CD very often
Up dating firm ware 970
1. from site burned a ISO file to a 32k-cd-R- my computer states it was completed

2. ( burned a second one to make sure)
3. When i hit play --- Unknown Disc. show up on the plasma and on the Oppo player.
4. nothing happens..... 5 min-8min, now
db

Ensure that you are using a ISO burning rom, and not using a standard Data CD burning rom.

In most burning programs, you will want to "Burn as Image", or "Burn Image." I would recommend the Burn At Once (www.burnatonce.com), a freeware burning program.

my burner said is burn a ISO file : but i'll see if i need something done.
db

Neur- Many Thanks[I][U]; it appears to have worked... and very quickly.I used your recommend Burn At Once, a freeware burning program
One, other Q?, for SACD to play -just as a Stereo CD. [Or can a SACD be played in a CD only player] what setting to on the setup menu do I need?
n I have a dedicated SACD player 6 analog cable, but the 970 is digital coax.

Response from Oppo Support:

John,

We have not had the opportunity to address the gapless playback of SACD material yet. It is our current highest priority feature.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

For SACD you need to either use the HDMI output, or the analog audio outputs. SACD will not be passed through the digital audio outputs.

Ok what did i do wrong- i do not burn CD very often
Up dating firm ware 970
1. from site burned a ISO file to a 32k-cd-R- my computer states it was completed

2. ( burned a second one to make sure)
3. When i hit play --- Unknown Disc. show up on the plasma and on the Oppo player.
4. nothing happens..... 5 min-8min, now
db

This happened to me also, I mistakenly burned mine as multi session, got the "Unknown Disc" message.

Burned the disc as closed session and all was fine.

Nevermind I see you got it working.

I have the Panasonic TH-50PX60U and was wondering if I should get the 971 or the 970?

-Been reading that the 971 might have the "macroblocking issue" with the Panasonic plasma. (Although this might give me the superior PQ) (Not sure just how hard it is to correct this issue) (Ideally would like to just plug and play with minimal setup)

-Do I get the 970 because it is less difficult to set up (Just let the plasma do the work) (Be satisfied with a good pictue but knowing the 971 would've given me even better PQ)

I've been using the "search feature" for the last 30 minutes on the 971 and 970 thread and cant find a definitive answer. (Seems like a lot of TH-50PX60U owners have asked these questions but have not gotten specific answers)

Any help is greatly appreciated!

I have a question is the Oppo Digital Dv-970HD better than a Panasonic DVD-F87S in term of video quality. I have a HP PL4260N 42" plasma tv.

Thanks

I have the Panasonic TH-50PX60U and was wondering if I should get the 971 or the 970?

-Been reading that the 971 might have the "macroblocking issue" with the Panasonic plasma. (Although this might give me the superior PQ) (Not sure just how hard it is to correct this issue) (Ideally would like to just plug and play with minimal setup)

-Do I get the 970 because it is less difficult to set up (Just let the plasma do the work) (Be satisfied with a good pictue but knowing the 971 would've given me even better PQ)

I've been using the "search feature" for the last 30 minutes on the 971 and 970 thread and cant find a definitive answer. (Seems like a lot of TH-50PX60U owners have asked these questions but have not gotten specific answers)

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Proper calibration can minimize and sometimes completely eliminate MB, but not always as in my case (non plasma display). The 971 isn't any harder to set up than the 970 unless you don't want to take time to calibrate to get rid of potential macroblocking. However, you should calibrate any DVD player to your display with a good calibration disc such as Avia or DVE. This is very important.

I don't think you can go wrong with the 970.

I seent a email to OPPO, thiey sent this back- it's just a FYI..
service@oppodigital.com wrote: David,
>
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: SACD
> > From: "
> > Date: Fri, September 29, 2006 7:14 am
> > To: Service@oppodigital.com
> >
> >
> > Dear Oppo, I am a happy 970 owner and AVS Member.
> > I wanted your 970 beacuse i need a better video processor for my
> > NEC 50xr5 plasma and wanted to wait out the HD/BR wars.
> > But i also wanted good SACD player. I have a Mod. SonyCE775 SACD
player. But really wanted to remove the CD player and have just one
Universal CD/SACD/video player and hoped the 970 would give me that. The 970
does play a nice SACD sound track but the SONY has a fuller sound
stage. But then again the Sony is $4x the price. Your new 972 will it have
the same sound stage as the 970 or will it have some sonic improvment.
or other Music improvements?
> > * i will not be getting a HDMI receiver
> > Thanks,
> > david
> > SF CA

Our upcoming DVD player will have the same sound stage as the
DV-970HD.
> We are looking into a very high end universal DVD unit, but such a
unit is still very early in its design phase.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Customer Service
> OPPO Digital, Inc.
> 453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D
> Mountain View, CA 94043
> Service@oppodigital.com
> Tel: 650-961-1118
> Fax: 650-961-1119
>


>

I would love to see a high end player from Oppo - I just wish it would have come out by now.

Hello,

Thank you Neuromancer for all of the help. The First post has been updated with the new firmware details and link to the firmware.

Paul

I really love the idea of plugging my 600gb LaCie External hard drive, full of mp3's, into a DVD USB port and be able to play them back. In theory, great. In practice, forget it. Many of the players (i.e. Pillips DVP5960, oppo 970, etc..) only support USB 1.1 and, worse, only support FAT32 formatted drives - which means partitioning the drive into 32GB chunks and no long filenames.

Ughh. I experimented with the Phillips and, after partitioning the drive, found that playback was choppy, distorted and unlistenable.. I'm not sure the oppo would be any different.

FAT32 formatted drives - which means partitioning the drive into 32GB chunks and no long filenames.Wrong on both counts. 32GB is an artificial limitation of Microsoft's format utility and long names have been supported since FAT16.

ITA about USB 1.1.

So, does the new release fix the intermittant control lockup problem experienced with the previous official release?
I called Oppo yesterday, and they reported that the new firmware should fix the lockup problem that was occurring on certain discs during playback. In my case, lockup was occurring without playback. If it continues to happen, Oppo mentioned the unit could be replaced under warranty.

Wrong on both counts. 32GB is an artificial limitation of Microsoft's format utility and long names have been supported since FAT16.

ITA about USB 1.1.

That may be true but not wrong as to what I was saying:

If I do not use MS format, the drive is not recognized and long filenames are not supported (in the DVD display).

I haven't tested that and, if that's the case, I stand corrected. However, it's a limitation of the Oppo and not FAT32. I have a 250GB USB drive formated as one volume with FAT32 and my IOData AVLP2 recognizes it fine.

Hello,

Thank you Neuromancer for all of the help. The First post has been updated with the new firmware details and link to the firmware.

Paul

No problem. Someone has to keep the e-mails and phone calls sent to OPPO to a minimum.